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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7EE59.7D641700-- From huidjihariyanto@adventureservice.it Tue Sep 04 03:19:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISShC-00050f-U7 for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:19:34 -0400 Received: from host249-138-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.12.138.249]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISShB-0005ov-W3 for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:19:34 -0400 Received: from a-r4j06ftr5vnzg ([185.131.131.62]:12185 "EHLO a-r4j06ftr5vnzg" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host249-138-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22TIBIDXDNNHYLO (ORCPT ); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:18:54 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c7eec3$c997f140$f98a0c4f@ar4j06ftr5vnzg> From: "huidji hariyanto" To: Subject: nuag Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:18:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EED4.8D20C140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EED4.8D20C140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://marforz.com/ Wassup hariyanto I went from being "mr little" too "mr big boy" within 6 months =3D ) Kal becaj ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EED4.8D20C140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EED4.8D20C140-- From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 11:05:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISZxr-0007Mo-IO; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:05:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISZxp-0007Mi-Rt for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:05:13 -0400 Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISZxo-0003tu-Gx for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:05:13 -0400 Received: from deanwillis (cpe-76-185-142-113.tx.res.rr.com [76.185.142.113]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id l84F59jF024899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:05:11 -0500 Message-Id: <200709041505.l84F59jF024899@nylon.softarmor.com> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:04:50 -0500 From: "Dean Willis" To: rjsparks@nostrum.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lonely Cat Games ProfiMail In-Reply-To: <27CF4A2B-5D0D-42A8-B618-669125CEF5D7@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org ------- Original message ------- From: Robert Sparks Sent: 28.8.'07, 13:29 > The 43 number above is disturbing. Does it reflect just that minutes aren't getting put into the tool, or that minutes aren't > being made available at all until this deadline? I really hope its the former. For SIP, minutes went out very quickly and were posted in the working group's wiki, along with the full text of the raw notes provided by note takers. We then edited the draft notes in the wiki until we were happy with them. However, giving that converting the fully-linked wiki material into a flat file for upload into the tool is a tedious manual process, it didn't get done until the minutes were Done. I do not have three hours to spend every time the minutes change by one word. Note that we've just started using a wiki. In the past, we've done much the same using flat files on the group's supplemental web page. I am not yet certain about the wiki format we used this time. It looks nice but is a pain to prepare. Don't know about the other working groups, but it would not surprise me to hear similar stories. -- dean From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 11:38:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISaUC-0004Of-58; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:38:40 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISaUB-0004Oa-HD for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:38:39 -0400 Received: from [80.86.78.228] (helo=fw.testbed.se) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISaUA-0004dU-RC for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:38:39 -0400 Received: from MailerDaemon by fw.testbed.se with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISaU9-0005J2-PR for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:38:37 +0200 Received: from gw.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.67]:8577 helo=[172.16.2.206]) by fw.testbed.se with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISaU4-0005Iv-Vq for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:38:33 +0200 Message-ID: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:35:25 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Working Group Chairs X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-cff-SpamScore: 0(/) X-cff-SpamReport: ----- ----- 1.5 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) [SPF failed: Please see http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=loa%40pi.se&ip=193.10.152.67&receiver=fw.testbed.se] -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP X-cff-LastScanner: footer X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Subject: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org All, as we now are in the rather relaxed period between two meetings I'd like to bring something up around the cut-off dates. Publishing a version of an ID with a version number that is higher than zero, is possible all the way up to the 2nd cut-off date. Regardless whether it is and individual contribution or a working group document. Publishing a -00 version of an individual contribution is not possible after the first cut-off date. Neither is possible to publish a -00 version of a working group document. Now if I'm between cut-off date 1 and 2, it is possible to publish a -03 version of a an individual draft, but not a -00 version of a working group draft, even though the only difference in the document is the filename. This simply don't make sense to me. In general documents where there is a working group rough consensus to accept them as wg documents, and should become -00 version of a wg document, are more mature than higher order versions where there is no no such rough consensus. Would it be possible to accept new wg docs all the way up to the 2nd cut-off date? /Loa PS This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors to post a new version of the individual contribution, and then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please consider it as if it were a wg doc" -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 13:52:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScZy-0004vf-NB; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:52:46 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScZy-0004va-2E for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:52:46 -0400 Received: from smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.89]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScZx-0007hM-JB for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:52:45 -0400 Received: (qmail 80485 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2007 17:52:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.11?) (andybierman@att.net@75.50.187.99 with plain) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2007 17:52:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bs7LapQVM1lxZfp0kJ5E2ynvqe1v5x.pqnZtou9WDOOhULt3 Message-ID: <46DD9AFA.9090204@andybierman.com> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:50:50 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Willis References: <200709041505.l84F59jF024899@nylon.softarmor.com> In-Reply-To: <200709041505.l84F59jF024899@nylon.softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Dean Willis wrote: > > ------- Original message ------- > From: Robert Sparks > Sent: 28.8.'07, 13:29 > >> The 43 number above is disturbing. Does it reflect just that minutes aren't getting put into the tool, or that minutes aren't >> being made available at all until this deadline? I really hope its the former. > > For SIP, minutes went out very quickly and were posted in the working group's wiki, along with the full text of the raw notes provided by note takers. > > We then edited the draft notes in the wiki until we were happy with them. > > However, giving that converting the fully-linked wiki material into a flat file for upload into the tool is a tedious manual process, it didn't get done until > the minutes were Done. I do not have three hours to spend every time the minutes change by one word. > > Note that we've just started using a wiki. In the past, we've done much the same using flat files on the group's supplemental web page. I am not yet certain > about the wiki format we used this time. It looks nice but is a pain to prepare. > > Don't know about the other working groups, but it would not surprise me to hear similar stories. > Why do the WG meeting minutes need to be so detailed? Why not just have a brief text summary in the minutes with URLs of the online resources that contain all the details? NETCONF does not use a wiki, but we started using an online issue tracker, and future meeting minutes will likely refer to tracker ticket numbers, instead of reproducing all the details. > -- > dean > > > Andy From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 14:01:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScig-0000aJ-Uv; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:01:46 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScif-0000aD-H3 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:01:45 -0400 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([135.245.0.33]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IScif-0007qt-1p for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:01:45 -0400 Received: from ilexp03.ndc.lucent.com (h135-3-39-50.lucent.com [135.3.39.50]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id l84I1Pae026222; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DEEXP02.DE.lucent.com ([135.248.187.66]) by ilexp03.ndc.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:01:06 -0500 Received: from DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com ([135.248.187.29]) by DEEXP02.DE.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:01:03 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:01:04 +0200 Message-ID: <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE2918001636D41@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <46DD9AFA.9090204@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Timely availability of minutes Thread-Index: AcfvHHqul5/Ml20AS3a2aEQu6Zbc5QAAF2bw References: <200709041505.l84F59jF024899@nylon.softarmor.com> <46DD9AFA.9090204@andybierman.com> From: "DRAGE, Keith $Keith$" To: "Andy Bierman" , "Dean Willis" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2007 18:01:03.0916 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F369EC0:01C7EF1D] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.33 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com Subject: RE: Timely availability of minutes X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org I have usually found that for resolution of WG direction on a specific = issue, they are not specific enough, and a couple of times have ended up = going back to the audio streams (where they worked and were audible = enough) to resolve what was discussed and agreed in the meeting. But in = terms of detail - in SIP we ended up with something like 10 or 12 pages = of minutes recording 5 hours of intense discussion on something like 15 = or 20 different documents. I don't think that is excessive detail. Keith=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:ietf@andybierman.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:51 PM > To: Dean Willis > Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org; rjsparks@nostrum.com > Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes >=20 > Dean Willis wrote: > >=20 > > ------- Original message ------- > > From: Robert Sparks > > Sent: 28.8.'07, 13:29 > >=20 > >> The 43 number above is disturbing. Does it reflect just=20 > that minutes=20 > >> aren't getting put into the tool, or that minutes aren't=20 > being made available at all until this deadline? I really=20 > hope its the former. > >=20 > > For SIP, minutes went out very quickly and were posted in=20 > the working group's wiki, along with the full text of the raw=20 > notes provided by note takers. =20 > >=20 > > We then edited the draft notes in the wiki until we were=20 > happy with them. > >=20 > > However, giving that converting the fully-linked wiki=20 > material into a=20 > > flat file for upload into the tool is a tedious manual=20 > process, it didn't get done until the minutes were Done. I do=20 > not have three hours to spend every time the minutes change=20 > by one word. > >=20 > > Note that we've just started using a wiki. In the past, we've done=20 > > much the same using flat files on the group's supplemental=20 > web page. I am not yet certain about the wiki format we used=20 > this time. It looks nice but is a pain to prepare. > >=20 > > Don't know about the other working groups, but it would not=20 > surprise me to hear similar stories.=20 > >=20 >=20 > Why do the WG meeting minutes need to be so detailed? > Why not just have a brief text summary in the minutes with=20 > URLs of the online resources that contain all the details? >=20 > NETCONF does not use a wiki, but we started using an online=20 > issue tracker, and future meeting minutes will likely refer=20 > to tracker ticket numbers, instead of reproducing all the details. >=20 > > -- > > dean > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 >=20 From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 14:27:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISd7w-0001Nh-Qm; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:27:52 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISd7v-0001Hz-UK for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:27:51 -0400 Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.93]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISd7v-0008M6-AS for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:27:51 -0400 Received: (qmail 5117 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2007 18:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.11?) (andybierman@att.net@75.50.187.99 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2007 18:27:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: tXj5VDMVM1mIfWOAkpk7lDnV.7uegRC3hofDGudyUYPpKRP7 Message-ID: <46DDA334.8080800@andybierman.com> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:25:56 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "DRAGE, Keith $Keith$" References: <200709041505.l84F59jF024899@nylon.softarmor.com> <46DD9AFA.9090204@andybierman.com> <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE2918001636D41@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE2918001636D41@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: > I have usually found that for resolution of WG direction on a specific issue, they are not specific enough, and a couple of times have ended up going back to the audio streams (where they worked and were audible enough) to resolve what was discussed and agreed in the meeting. But in terms of detail - in SIP we ended up with something like 10 or 12 pages of minutes recording 5 hours of intense discussion on something like 15 or 20 different documents. I don't think that is excessive detail. > If you figure 12 pages of minutes for 15 drafts (that's your best case), that's 4/5 of a page per draft. The NETCONF minutes were 2 pages for 1 draft -- twice as detailed ;-) A URL to precise text-based info is not the same as a URL to 4 hours of mbone audio. You should translate that to text for the minutes, as you did. > Keith Andy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andy Bierman [mailto:ietf@andybierman.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:51 PM >> To: Dean Willis >> Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org; rjsparks@nostrum.com >> Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes >> >> Dean Willis wrote: >>> ------- Original message ------- >>> From: Robert Sparks >>> Sent: 28.8.'07, 13:29 >>> >>>> The 43 number above is disturbing. Does it reflect just >> that minutes >>>> aren't getting put into the tool, or that minutes aren't >> being made available at all until this deadline? I really >> hope its the former. >>> For SIP, minutes went out very quickly and were posted in >> the working group's wiki, along with the full text of the raw >> notes provided by note takers. >>> We then edited the draft notes in the wiki until we were >> happy with them. >>> However, giving that converting the fully-linked wiki >> material into a >>> flat file for upload into the tool is a tedious manual >> process, it didn't get done until the minutes were Done. I do >> not have three hours to spend every time the minutes change >> by one word. >>> Note that we've just started using a wiki. In the past, we've done >>> much the same using flat files on the group's supplemental >> web page. I am not yet certain about the wiki format we used >> this time. It looks nice but is a pain to prepare. >>> Don't know about the other working groups, but it would not >> surprise me to hear similar stories. >> Why do the WG meeting minutes need to be so detailed? >> Why not just have a brief text summary in the minutes with >> URLs of the online resources that contain all the details? >> >> NETCONF does not use a wiki, but we started using an online >> issue tracker, and future meeting minutes will likely refer >> to tracker ticket numbers, instead of reproducing all the details. >> >>> -- >>> dean >>> >>> >>> >> >> Andy >> >> >> > > From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 21:09:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjOw-00076f-CI; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:09:50 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjOu-00076F-KE; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:09:48 -0400 Received: from ns3.neustar.com ([156.154.24.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjOt-0002gF-OO; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:09:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7BD175A7; Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:09:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjOs-0008N5-Q6; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:09:46 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Working Group Chairs From: IETF Agenda Message-Id: Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:09:46 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2d133cc328f58695161c98bb4f4dc213 Cc: bofchairs@ietf.org Subject: 70th IETF - Working Group/BOF Scheduling X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------- 70th IETF - Vancouver, BC, Canada Meeting Dates: December 2-7, 2007 ----------------------------------------------------------------- We will be accepting scheduling requests for all Working Groups and BOFs starting today, Tuesday, September 4, 2007. The milestones and deadlines for scheduling-related activities are as follows: -- Cut-off date for requests to schedule Working Group meetings and for preliminary BOF proposals to ADs: Monday, October 1 at 17:00 ET (21:00 UTC/GMT). -- Cut-off date for requests to schedule BoFs: Monday, October 22 at 17:00 ET (21:00 UTC/GMT). -- Preliminary agenda published for comment: Friday, October 26 by midnight ET. -- Cut-off date for requests to reschedule Working Group and BOF meetings: Wednesday, November 7 at 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). -- Final agenda published: Monday, November 12 before midnight ET. -- Draft Working Group agendas due: Wednesday, November 21 at 17:00 ET (22:00 UTC/GMT). -- Revised Working Group agendas due: Monday, November 26 at 12:00 ET (17:00 UTC/GMT), upload using IETF Meeting Materials Management Tool Submitting Requests for Working Group and BOF Sessions Please submit requests to schedule your Working Group sessions using the "IETF Meeting Session Request Tool," a Web-based tool for submitting all of the information that the Secretariat requires to schedule your sessions. The URL for the tool is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/wg/wg_session_requester.cgi Instructions for using the tool are available at: http://www.ietf.org/instructions/session_request_tool_instruction.html Please send requests to schedule your BOF sessions to agenda@ietf.org. Please include the acronym of your BOF in the subject line of the message, and include all of the information specified in item (4) of "Requesting Meeting Sessions at IETF Meetings" in the body. (This document is included below.) Submitting Session Agendas For the convenience of meeting attendees, we ask that you submit the agendas for your Working Group sessions as early as possible. Draft Working Group agendas are due Wednesday, November 21 by 17:00 ET (22:00 UTC/GMT). Revised Working Group agendas are due no later than Monday, November 26 at 12:00 ET (17:00 UTC/GMT). The proposed agenda for a BOF session should be submitted along with your request for a session. Please be sure to copy your Area Director on that message. Please submit the agendas for your Working Group sessions using the "IETF Meeting Materials Management Tool," a Web-based tool for making your meeting agenda, minutes, and presentation slides available to the community before, during, and after an IETF meeting. If you are a BOF chair, then you may use the tool to submit a revised agenda as well as other materials for your BOF once the BOF has been approved. The URL for the tool is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/wg/wg_proceedings.cgi Additional information about this tool is available at: http://www.ietf.org/instructions/meeting_materials_tool.html Agendas submitted via the tool will be available to the public on the "IETF Meeting Materials" Web page as soon as they are submitted. The URL for the "IETF 70 Meeting Materials" Web page is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=70 If you are a Working Group chair, then you already have accounts on the "IETF Meeting Session Request Tool" and the "IETF Meeting Materials Management Tool." The same User ID and password will work for both tools. If you are a BOF chair who is not also a Working Group chair, then you will be given an account on the "IETF Meeting Materials Management Tool" when your BOF has been approved. If you require assistance in using either tool, or wish to report a bug, then please send a message to: ietf-action@ietf.org. =============================================================== For your convenience, comprehensive information on requesting meeting sessions at IETF 70 is presented below: 1. Requests to schedule Working Group sessions should be submitted using the "IETF Meeting Session Request Tool," a Web-based tool for submitting all of the information required by the Secretariat to schedule your sessions. The URL for the tool is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/wg/wg_session_requester.cgi Instructions for using the tool are available at: http://www.ietf.org/instructions/session_request_tool_instruction.html If you require an account on this tool, or assistance in using it, then please send a message to ietf-action@ietf.org. If you are unable to use the tool, then you may send your request via e-mail to agenda@ietf.org, with a copy to the appropriate Area Director(s). Requests to schedule BOF sessions must be sent to agenda@ietf.org with a copy to the appropriate Area Director(s). When submitting a Working Group or BOF session request by e-mail, please include the Working Group or BOF acronym in the Subject line. 2. BOFs will NOT be scheduled unless the Area Director(s) approved request is accompanied by a BOF'S FULL NAME AND ACRONYM, AREA, CHAIR(S) NAME(S) (given together with e-mail address(es)), AN AGENDA AND FULL DESCRIPTION, and the information requested in (4) below. (Please read the BOF Procedure at: http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1bof-procedures.txt before requesting a session for a BOF.) 3. A Working Group may request either one or two sessions. If your Working Group requires more than two sessions, then your request must be approved by an Area Director. Additional sessions will be assigned, based on availability, after Wednesday, November 7 at 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT), the cut-off date for requests to reschedule a session. 4. You MUST provide the following information before a Working Group or BOF session will be scheduled: a. Working Group or BOF full name with acronym in brackets: b. AREA under which Working Group or BOF appears: c. CONFLICTS you wish to avoid, please be as specific as possible: d. Expected Attendance (figures from the 69th IETF meeting are included at the end of this message): e. Special requests: f. Number of sessions: g. Length of session: - 1 hour - 2 hours - 2 1/2 hours For more information on scheduling Working Group and BOF sessions, please refer to RFC 2418 (BCP 25), "IETF Working Group Guidelines and Procedures" (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2418.txt). =============================================================== For your convenience please find here a list of the IETF Area Directors with their e-mail addresses: IETF Chair Russ Housley Applications Area (app) Lisa Dusseault Chris Newman Internet Area (int) Jari Arkko Mark Townsley Operations & Management Area (ops) Ronald Bonica Dan Romascanu Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Area (rai) Cullen Jennings Jon Peterson Routing Area (rtg) Ross Callon David Ward Security Area (sec) Sam Hartman William Polk Transport Area (tsv) Lars Eggert Magnus Westerlund =========================================================== 69th IETF Meeting Attendance Number 16ng 66 6lowpan No Blue Sheets ancp No Blue Sheets apm (BoF) 93 apparea (AG) 75 autoconf 77 autoconf (2nd session) 63 avt 94 avt (2nd session) 73 behave 53 biff (BoF) 30 bliss 123 bmwg 38 btns 38 calcify 14 capwap 44 ccamp 112 ccamp (2nd session) 95 dccp 33 dhc 66 dime 35 dkim 58 dnsop 104 dtnrg 51 eai 47 ecrit 93 emu 39 enum 82 forces 17 geopriv 100 grow 73 hiprg/emerg 77 hokey 87 httpbis (BoF) 61 iccrg 52 idr 112 intarea (AG) 120 ipdvb 7 ipfix 24 ippm No Blue Sheets ipr 23 isis 58 isms 25 keyprov 46 kitten 17 krb-wg 32 krb-wg (2nd session) 21 l1vpn CANCELLED l2vpn No Blue Sheets l3vpn 83 lemonade 35 lemonade (2nd session) 25 ltans 16 manet 77 mboned 50 mediactrl 42 mip4 31 mip6 101 mipshop 100 mmusic 42 mmusic (2nd session) 77 mobopts (RG) 85 monami6 90 mpls 152 nea 62 nee (BoF) 46 nemo 92 netconf 38 netlmm 99 nfsv4 20 nsis 36 ntp 37 opsawg 66 ospf 56 p2psip (adhoc) 36 p2psip 154 pana 34 pce 63 pcn 79 pim 32 pkix 52 pwe3 127 radext 39 rmt 32 rpsec 50 rrg 145 rtgarea (AG) 136 rtgwg 97 saag (AG) 149 samrg 41 sasl 31 sidr 89 sieve 17 simple 81 sip 162 sip (2nd session) 128 sipping 137 sipping (2nd session) 135 smime 17 softwire 51 speermint 125 tam (BoF) 103 tcpm 35 tls 54 trill 44 trill (2nd session) 27 tsvarea (AG) 67 tsvwg 81 v6ops 130 vcarddav (BoF) 24 xcon 45 xsdmi (BoF) 29 From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 22:14:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkPq-0001Z1-Gg; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:14:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkPq-0001Xv-3s for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:14:50 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkPo-0003m0-QK for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:14:50 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=Z694eDZzRKM5MBqmKRU0LMI2YRYOwRWtOEyPnzeIo/0jen9mgdqP78lOfSAenXHa; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.164.81.66] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ISkPk-0002KO-2A for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:14:44 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "Working Group Chairs" References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 19:17:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888fa44b31bb60a9356d89c44a9400d799551c1ded543fafa07350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.66 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Loa Andersson" > To: "Working Group Chairs" > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:35 AM > Subject: working group documents and cut-off dates ... > This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors > to post a new version of the individual contribution, and > then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please > consider it as if it were a wg doc" ... Unless something has changed since I last read RFC 2418, if the WG chairs say an i-d is a WG document, it *is* a WG document, regardless of its name. Re-naming WG documents to include the WG name is simply for convenience. (Please correct me citing RFC chapter and verse if I got this wrong.) Randy From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 22:26:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkb4-0002Ic-T4; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:26:26 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkb3-0002HJ-T9 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:26:25 -0400 Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISkb3-0004TV-If for wgchairs@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:26:25 -0400 Received: from deanwillis (cpe-76-185-253-46.tx.res.rr.com [76.185.253.46]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id l852QLeR031035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:26:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200709050226.l852QLeR031035@nylon.softarmor.com> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:26:53 -0500 From: "Dean Willis" To: ietf@andybierman.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lonely Cat Games ProfiMail In-Reply-To: <46DD9AFA.9090204@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com Subject: Re: Timely availability of minutes X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org ------- Original message ------- From: Andy Bierman > Why do the WG meeting minutes need to be so detailed? > Why not just have a brief text summary in the minutes > with URLs of the online resources that contain all the details? because when the lawyers impact the rotating oscillating air circulators, the minutes have to be producible in court. 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From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 03:32:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISpMe-0007Yo-L6; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:31:52 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISpMd-0007Qq-Bq for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:31:51 -0400 Received: from [80.86.78.228] (helo=fw.testbed.se) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISpMc-0003SH-LL for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:31:51 -0400 Received: from MailerDaemon by fw.testbed.se with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISpMb-00081w-L7 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:31:49 +0200 Received: from gw.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.67]:3509 helo=[172.16.2.206]) by fw.testbed.se with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISpMS-00081a-Td; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:31:41 +0200 Message-ID: <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:28:35 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-cff-SpamScore: 0(/) X-cff-SpamReport: ----- ----- 1.5 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) [SPF failed: Please see http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=loa%40pi.se&ip=193.10.152.67&receiver=fw.testbed.se] -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP X-cff-LastScanner: footer X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Randy, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > >> From: "Loa Andersson" >> To: "Working Group Chairs" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:35 AM >> Subject: working group documents and cut-off dates > ... >> This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors >> to post a new version of the individual contribution, and >> then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please >> consider it as if it were a wg doc" > ... > > Unless something has changed since I last read RFC 2418, > if the WG chairs say an i-d is a WG document, it *is* a WG > document, regardless of its name. > > Re-naming WG documents to include the WG name is simply > for convenience. (Please correct me citing RFC chapter and > verse if I got this wrong.) yes you are right, which makes stopping us from renaming an existing doc to -00 version working group doc even less understandable naming a doc draft-ietf-wg- is convenient, as some of the ietf tools works kind of automatic if we do /Loa > Randy > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 04:54:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISqeE-0001Ps-2y; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:54:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISqeD-0001Pn-F8 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:54:05 -0400 Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com ([206.16.17.211]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISqeC-0004mD-8u for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:54:05 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNW00M740OKI9@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s73602 (reverse.gdsz.cncnet.net [210.21.226.44]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JNW0014W0OEFT@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:53:19 +0800 From: Spencer Dawkins To: Loa Andersson Message-id: <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org There are things that make sense about the way we name and rename drafts, but not everything makes sense. As pointed out - it's a convenience to rename drafts, but since it's optional, you really can't believe the names - no one has mentioned the "working group closing so now we'll finish the draft as an individual submission without changing the name" trick. If we're going to rename drafts, it seems like we should make that easier in both directions. Spencer > Randy, > > Randy Presuhn wrote: >> Hi - >> >>> From: "Loa Andersson" >>> To: "Working Group Chairs" >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:35 AM >>> Subject: working group documents and cut-off dates >> ... >>> This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors >>> to post a new version of the individual contribution, and >>> then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please >>> consider it as if it were a wg doc" >> ... >> >> Unless something has changed since I last read RFC 2418, >> if the WG chairs say an i-d is a WG document, it *is* a WG >> document, regardless of its name. >> >> Re-naming WG documents to include the WG name is simply >> for convenience. (Please correct me citing RFC chapter and >> verse if I got this wrong.) > > yes you are right, which makes stopping us from renaming > an existing doc to -00 version working group doc even > less understandable > > > naming a doc draft-ietf-wg- is convenient, as some of the > ietf tools works kind of automatic if we do > > /Loa > >> Randy >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Loa Andersson > > Principal Networking Architect > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.se > > This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. > http://www.astaro.com > > > From lucan@signtools.ru Wed Sep 05 05:56:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISrd5-0003Zr-DY for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:56:59 -0400 Received: from host55-133-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([87.16.133.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISrd4-0007yV-3q for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:56:58 -0400 Received: from duffycr ([106.131.176.69] helo=duffycr) by host55-133-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1iAPSg-000PWW-SA for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:57:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c7efa3$1cbf8650$37851057@duffycr> From: "lucan Swartzlander" To: Subject: tsininuk Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:57:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7EFB3.E0485650" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7EFB3.E0485650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://devildj.net/ Yo Swartzlander its the size of ones penis that determines success HOCQ Foran ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7EFB3.E0485650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7EFB3.E0485650-- From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 06:21:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISs11-0005Qg-Ej; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:21:43 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISs0y-0005Q4-Ki for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:21:40 -0400 Received: from [80.86.78.228] (helo=fw.testbed.se) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISs0x-0000Av-SV for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:21:40 -0400 Received: from MailerDaemon by fw.testbed.se with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISs0x-0001r1-3b for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:21:39 +0200 Received: from gw.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.67]:2629 helo=[172.16.2.206]) by fw.testbed.se with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ISs0q-0001qn-T8; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:21:32 +0200 Message-ID: <46DE832A.20808@pi.se> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:21:30 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Spencer Dawkins References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-cff-SpamScore: 0(/) X-cff-SpamReport: ----- ----- 1.5 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) [SPF failed: Please see http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=loa%40pi.se&ip=193.10.152.67&receiver=fw.testbed.se] -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP X-cff-LastScanner: footer X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Spencer and all, what I try to say here is only that if a working group has as practice to rename a document when accepting it as a working group document, there is no reason to stop the publishing of that document just because we are between cut off date 1 and 2. /Loa Spencer Dawkins wrote: > There are things that make sense about the way we name and rename > drafts, but not everything makes sense. > > As pointed out - it's a convenience to rename drafts, but since it's > optional, you really can't believe the names - no one has mentioned the > "working group closing so now we'll finish the draft as an individual > submission without changing the name" trick. > > If we're going to rename drafts, it seems like we should make that > easier in both directions. > > Spencer > > >> Randy, >> >> Randy Presuhn wrote: >>> Hi - >>> >>>> From: "Loa Andersson" >>>> To: "Working Group Chairs" >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:35 AM >>>> Subject: working group documents and cut-off dates >>> ... >>>> This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors >>>> to post a new version of the individual contribution, and >>>> then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please >>>> consider it as if it were a wg doc" >>> ... >>> >>> Unless something has changed since I last read RFC 2418, >>> if the WG chairs say an i-d is a WG document, it *is* a WG >>> document, regardless of its name. >>> >>> Re-naming WG documents to include the WG name is simply >>> for convenience. (Please correct me citing RFC chapter and >>> verse if I got this wrong.) >> >> yes you are right, which makes stopping us from renaming >> an existing doc to -00 version working group doc even >> less understandable >> >> >> naming a doc draft-ietf-wg- is convenient, as some of the >> ietf tools works kind of automatic if we do >> >> /Loa >> >>> Randy >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Loa Andersson >> >> Principal Networking Architect >> Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >> Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >> Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se >> loa@pi.se >> >> This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. >> http://www.astaro.com >> >> >> > > > > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 09:36:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISv3Z-0000F3-Jk; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:36:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISv3Y-0000Er-02 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:36:32 -0400 Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com ([206.16.17.211]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISv3V-0003iP-Ua for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:36:31 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNW00AIGDSTCN@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s73602 (reverse.gdsz.cncnet.net [210.21.226.44]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JNW000J5DSOHL@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:36:39 +0800 From: Spencer Dawkins To: Loa Andersson Message-id: <07bb01c7efc1$cb2625f0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> <46DE832A.20808@pi.se> X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org > Spencer and all, > > what I try to say here is only that if a working group has > as practice to rename a document when accepting it as a > working group document, there is no reason to stop the > publishing of that document just because we are between > cut off date 1 and 2. > > /Loa I agree. My apologies if that wasn't clear. Since we think renaming documents is useful, and since I've recently seen working groups who (instead of saying "rename it and I'll announce it as a WG draft") choose not to change the name because the cutoff date for 00s has passed, the nn->00 cutoff restriction seems actively counterproductive, in at least some cases. But I AM interested in one point that Loa made in this followup - Steve Coya (remember Steve?) made the point about how we had flexibility about whether to rename or not in maybe 15 New WG Chair training sessions that I know of, and when I took over the training sessions from Margaret, I always carefully pointed out that renaming is optional, until way too many people told me that they don't read most "individual" drafts (based on seeing that the file name looked "individual", or not). So anyone whose working group doesn't rename is flying under the radar of people who actually look at the ID announcements, including current IAB and IESG members (who are WAY too busy to try to check the WG home page to see whether each draft is really a WG draft - as Andy said, that's the only way to know for sure). Does anyone actually USE this flexibility? Or are 99.9 percent of the drafts named using this convention, but we can't assume the convention in tool design, etc. because of the tiny percentage of drafts that don't? Spencer From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 14:13:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISzNf-0007E1-Ux; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:13:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISzNe-00077E-Kz for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:13:34 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISzNd-0001re-DK for wgchairs@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:13:34 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Sep 2007 11:13:33 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.20,211,1186383600"; d="scan'208"; a="212668601:sNHT49341888" Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l85IDWsO032267; Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:13:32 -0700 Received: from [192.168.4.177] (sjc-fluffy-vpn1.cisco.com [10.25.236.82]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with SMTP id l85IDWxK029483; Wed, 5 Sep 2007 18:13:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> Impp: xmpp:cullenfluffyjennings@jabber.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <613B0FB0-04DF-4A14-8C67-72429BBFB877@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cullen Jennings Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:12:04 -0700 To: Loa Andersson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2965; t=1189016013; x=1189880013; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fluffy@cisco.com; z=From:=20Cullen=20Jennings=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20working=20group=20documents=20and=20cut-off=20dates |Sender:=20; bh=ucNj/0fbkqu+B0n6yrTMoq0KxS18N2MGNtaE9t6K6Qo=; b=J/V8u8gtboi3uw7XcYsATqHuDWvvyvTp7NLz7OAQSxInklN38aMs0jEaa5r74f0I1nyaaQv6 0P8dPqVxpIMdsmH5CWIwdFO0z+rztxw7qNRDCrABqw7nK3/JYKwybiXA; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=fluffy@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Logically speaking, I agree this makes no sense - but practically I find it useful. When a WG adopts a document, a lot more people read it and often they are reading it for the first time. It also takes longer to read the first time than on subsequent reviews. I don't know about other areas but RAI creates a lot of reading for most the folks in it - in the past year or two, there have been two IETF where given the publication delay on drafts and the alignment with holidays and travel to IETF, we had less than 5 business days to review a very large number of 01 drafts and not really all that long to review all the drafts. I think the new web based submission tool will cut the publication delay but I still like having more time to review the newly adopted WG documents. Just my 2 cents - probably any scheme can be made to work as long as people know what to plan for. I think the important part is trying to decide if we have the right amount of time to read and comment on drafts before the meeting. On Sep 4, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > All, > > as we now are in the rather relaxed period between two meetings > I'd like to bring something up around the cut-off dates. > > Publishing a version of an ID with a version number that is > higher than zero, is possible all the way up to the 2nd > cut-off date. Regardless whether it is and individual > contribution or a working group document. > > Publishing a -00 version of an individual contribution is > not possible after the first cut-off date. > > Neither is possible to publish a -00 version of a working > group document. > > Now if I'm between cut-off date 1 and 2, it is possible to > publish a -03 version of a an individual draft, but not a > -00 version of a working group draft, even though the only > difference in the document is the filename. > > This simply don't make sense to me. > > In general documents where there is a working group > rough consensus to accept them as wg documents, and > should become -00 version of a wg document, are more > mature than higher order versions where there is no > no such rough consensus. > > Would it be possible to accept new wg docs all the way > up to the 2nd cut-off date? > > /Loa > > PS > > This is not a very big problem, wg chairs simply tell authors > to post a new version of the individual contribution, and > then tell the wg "this doc didn't make the cut-off date; please > consider it as if it were a wg doc" > > -- > Loa Andersson > > Principal Networking Architect > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.se > > This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. > http://www.astaro.com > > From mccownyhannes@mig.com Thu Sep 06 02:05:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITAUq-0004fU-HM for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:05:44 -0400 Received: from [59.96.97.30] (helo=lkod) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITAUo-0004ME-Q8 for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:05:44 -0400 Received: from [201.26.136.212] (helo=abshz) by lkod with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1ITB@k-0003av-3i; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:37:42 +0530 Message-ID: <002001c7f04b$ebab3d30$d4881ac9@abshz> From: To: Subject: The big trader Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:35:27 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Huge News For VGPM Has Pushed Trading Through The Roof. VEGA PROMOTIONAL SYS V G P M $0.07 Brokers move huge volumes as investors are reading up the latest news on VGPM. This is on the move. get ahead of the rush and get on VGPM Thursday. From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 06 08:58:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITGw8-0001ws-Ac; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:58:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT1Dm-0001hg-RR; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:11:30 -0400 Received: from ns6.neustar.com ([156.154.16.88] helo=va.neustar.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT1Dl-0006ZS-GP; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:11:30 -0400 Received: from ([10.31.13.31]) by stihiron2.va.neustar.com with ESMTP id 5202732.1453969; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:11:21 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFF8.ECD48048" Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:11:13 -0400 Message-ID: <7E4AE77F3AB06645A401B77E8068DFE424B60E@STNTEXCH12.cis.neustar.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Call for Corrections to 69th IETF Meeting Proceedings Thread-Index: Acfv+Jjn1aWRoga8RPKU3L6u9HF0uw== X-Priority: 1 Priority: Urgent Importance: high From: "Bunch, Rebecca" To: "Working Group Chairs" , "BOF Chairs" , "Arron Falk" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4e722e9456ead69ba4cdd21dd3d3600 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:58:18 -0400 Cc: Tom Henderson , Mark Williams , Lixia Zhang , John Buford , Russ Housley , "Fuller, Barbara" , Tony Li , Andrei Gurtov , Rajeev Koodli , Tilamn Wolf , William Arbaugh , Kevin Fall , Stephen Farrell , Wes Eddy , Jeremy Mineweaser , Michael Welzl Subject: Call for Corrections to 69th IETF Meeting Proceedings X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFF8.ECD48048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Working Group and BOF Chairs: =20 The deadline for CORRECTIONS to the minutes and presentation slides submitted for inclusion in the proceedings of the 69th IETF meeting is Wednesday, September 12, 2007 at 17:00 ET (21:00 GMT). =20 Status of Submissions: One Hundred Eleven (111) Working Groups, BoFs and AG's met at IETF 69 (This number includes the training sessions, Plenary sessions, the IRTF groups and interim meetings held prior to the 69th IETF). As of today 1 has not submitted slides or minutes, 10 have submitted slides but no minutes, 97 have submitted both slides and minutes, and 3 tutorials have not been submitted. The current status of the proceedings, including the list of groups in each category, is available at: =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=3D6= 9 =20 The Preliminary Final Proceedings for the IETF-69 Meeting can be found here: =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/index.html =20 Please note, submission of minutes is MANDATORY =20 If your group has not made a submission, please email them to me at proceedings@ietf.org for inclusion to these proceedings. =20 The IETF Secretariat =20 Rebecca Bunch=20 Proceedings Editor=20 NeuStar Secretariat Services=20 46000 Center Oak Plaza=20 Sterling, VA 20166 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFF8.ECD48048 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Working Group and BOF = Chairs:

The deadline for CORRECTIONS to the minutes and = presentation slides submitted for inclusion in the proceedings of the 69th IETF = meeting is Wednesday, September 12, = 2007 at 17:00 ET (21:00 GMT).

Status of Submissions:

One Hundred Eleven (111) Working Groups, BoFs and AG’s met at = IETF 69 (This number includes the training sessions, Plenary sessions, the IRTF groups = and interim meetings held prior to the 69th IETF). As of today 1 has not submitted slides or = minutes, 10 have submitted slides but no = minutes, 97 have submitted both slides and = minutes, and 3 tutorials have not been submitted. The current status of the proceedings, including the list of = groups in each category, is available at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.= cgi?meeting_num=3D69

The Preliminary Final Proceedings for the IETF-69 = Meeting can be found here:

http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/index.html=

Please note, submission of minutes is MANDATORY<= /p>

If your group has not made a submission, please email = them to me at proceedings@ietf.org for inclusion to these = proceedings.

The IETF Secretariat

Rebecca Bunch

Proceedings Editor

NeuStar Secretariat Services =

46000 Center Oak Plaza

Sterling, VA 20166

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFF8.ECD48048-- From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 06 18:30:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITPrp-000751-LQ; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:30:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITPrl-0006y6-MO; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:30:25 -0400 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITPrl-0001SL-CQ; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:30:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 498D12AC61; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:30:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ITPrl-0005jv-1a; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:30:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Announcement list From: IETF Secretariat Message-Id: Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:30:25 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org Subject: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org 70th IETF Meeting Vancouver, BC, Canada December 2-7, 2007 Registration is now open for the 70th IETF Meeting! You can register on line at: http://www3.ietf.org/meetings/70-IETF.html REGISTRATION INFORMATION: Early-Bird Registration - USD 700.00 If you register and pay for your attendance to the IETF-70 before NOON ET (17:00 UTC/GMT), Friday, 23 November 2007, you will pay the early-bird price of USD 700.00. After Early-Bird cutoff - USD 850.00 You can still register and pay online at USD 850.00 until 17:00 Canada/Pacific Time Friday 30 November 2007 (01:00 UTC/GMT, Saturday 1 December 2007). Full-time Student Registrations - USD 250.00 Full-time students with proper ID are eligible to receive a special USD 250.00 student rate. Student rate is not subject to any late-fees. Students will also be able to register on-site at the special student rate. Failure to provide valid student ID on-site will revoke the special student status. CANCELLATION: The cut-off for registration cancellation is Monday, 26 November at 17:00 ET-US (22:00 UTC/GMT). Cancellations are subject to a 10% (ten percent) cancellation fee if requested by that date and time. ON-SITE REGISTRATION: You can register onsite at the meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada starting Sunday, 2 December at 12:00 noon (local time). The IETF meetings start Monday morning and run through Friday lunchtime, with late scheduling changes. Most training session take place on Sunday afternoon 2 December. Participants should plan their travel accordingly. The IETF Secretariat From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 07:50:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITcM1-00065o-AE; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:50:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITcLy-00064y-K0; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:50:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.172] helo=mgw-ext13.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITcLw-0006lf-W6; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:50:26 -0400 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext13.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l87BoG2v022598; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:50:17 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:50:11 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:50:10 +0300 Received: from [192.168.255.2] (essapo-nirac253224.europe.nokia.com [10.162.253.224]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l87Bo89c020592; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:50:08 +0300 In-Reply-To: <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-405208413; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Message-Id: <49A272FD-4E70-425F-9145-0384B5FB4340@nokia.com> From: Lars Eggert Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:50:05 +0300 To: ext YAO X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2007 11:50:10.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E975110:01C7F145] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, IETF Secretariat , bofchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org --Apple-Mail-6-405208413 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed See the recent email on ietf-announce: Begin forwarded message: > From: "ext Kurt Erik Lindqvist" > Date: September 4, 2007 17:13:49 GMT+03:00 > To: ietf-announce@ietf.org > Cc: IAOC Jabberr , ietf@ietf.org, "IESG $\(E-mail$ > \)" > Subject: Vancouver meeting fees > > > > The community was told at the IETF 69 Wednesday Evening Plenary > Session to expect a meeting fee increase for IETF 70 in > Vancouver. The purpose of this message it to advise you of the > amount of the increase and provide the reasons for the increase. > We are into September, which means two-thirds of 2007 is now behind > us. We know what our IETF expenses have been year-to-date, and we > can project our expenses for the rest of 2007. We also know that > our meeting revenue for the first two meetings have been below > expectation as a result of attendance averaging one hundred fewer > attendees per meeting than anticipated. With this information, we > can see that the operations will incur a shortfall of more than > $200K if we do not take actions for the Vancouver meeting. > Accordingly, the IAOC will increase the IETF meeting fee for the > Vancouver meeting by $100. By taking this action, our deficit for > all of 2007 should be reduced by almost half. > To address the remaining deficit, we will continue to work with > the Internet Society staff in their efforts to attract additional > host and sponsorship support for the Vancouver meeting and to > reduce expenses wherever possible without impacting the meeting > and experience of the attendees. To date, we have received > generous contributions from Microsoft and Telus, which are > appreciated, but are not enough to make Vancouver a fully hosted > meeting. > With respect to what happens in 2008, please note that the IAOC > has not made any decisions yet about meeting fees for next year, > but we will be actively evaluating the cost of delivering > essential services, looking at new approaches to raise additional > revenue, and taking another look at future meeting locations with > the goal of increasing meeting attendance. > More financial information is available at: http://iaoc.ietf.org/ > budget.html. In particular see Budget Overview and Year End Forecast. > > As a final point of information, please be advised that > registration for the Vancouver meeting will begin this week. > > Kurtis Lindqvist > IAOC Chair > > --Apple-Mail-6-405208413 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDEwNDE2MTE1NFoXDTA4MDEwNDE2MTE1 NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA26hjntVPZMiwh4d8tyuk9KiucvG92BVUGArk5zO1jhmq7tLFgU1mqcIg 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ZXMuICBNb3N0IHRyYWluaW5nIHNlc3Npb24gdGFrZSBwbGFjZSBvbiBTdW5kYXkNCj4gYWZ0ZXJu b29uIDIgRGVjZW1iZXIuICBQYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgc2hvdWxkIHBsYW4gdGhlaXIgdHJhdmVsIGFj Y29yZGluZ2x5Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gSUVURi1Bbm5v dW5jZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gSUVURi1Bbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3 dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWFubm91bmNlDQo+ From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 08:36:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITd4H-0006tB-Oy; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:36:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITd4E-0006n6-Gx; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:36:10 -0400 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITd4D-0007rE-4B; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:36:10 -0400 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ITd4C-0002cG-3f; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:36:08 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:36:07 +0100 Message-ID: <03f401c7f14b$a5f2c320$0302a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Eric Gray $LO/EUS$" , "YAO" , "IETF Secretariat" , References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF018C7481@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:33:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2007 12:36:07.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9CD3E30:01C7F14B] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.138] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Adrian Farrel List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org We shall see, but I don't know that putting up the price necessarily fixes the registration income issue. You only have to deter a relatively small proportion of attendees to wipe out the increase in charge. I assume that the converse is also being applied: viz. cutting meeting costs. It's hard for us oiks to tell because we only see: - registration fee - breakfasts/cookies Anyway, registration is still the smallest component of attendance for me. Hotel and travel are still bigger problems, and I continue to wonder whether we could increase attendance (and hence registration income) by facilitating cheaper accommodation and travel. Cheers, Adrian From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 08:37:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITd5o-0000uO-7e; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:37:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITcr9-0005hO-0U; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:22:39 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITcr7-0007Yx-M1; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:22:38 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l87CTEXC014193; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:29:14 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.21]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:22:35 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:22:33 -0500 Message-ID: <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF018C7481@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration Thread-Index: AcfxPv6/vk6zZtqeSHKGE/JxHhYe4AABUcgg References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> From: "Eric Gray (LO/EUS)" To: "YAO" , "IETF Secretariat" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2007 12:22:35.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5DD4DB0:01C7F149] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:37:48 -0400 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org Subject: RE: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Yao, I sympathize. However, there are other things for you to consider: 1) There are available discounts -=20 a) the price for full time students is significantly=20 lower (although several times what it has been in=20 the past) and requires only that you can produce a student ID card to show that you are a full-time=20 student b) the IETF offers "fellowships" in certain cases for people who cannot otherwise attend. 2) "Membership" in the IETF is precisely what you do not need, nor can you get it right now. The right to be a participant in the IETF comes for free, and is a thing you can lose, rather than a thing you have to gain. Attending meetings is what costs money, and you don't=20 absolutely have to attend meetings (though it is much more difficult to participate effectively if you don't). 3) An annual membership fee - as applied in several other=20 SDOs - can actually be a larger "threshhold" that must be overcome by the small company because (without small company discounts - which are resented by those larger=20 companies that don't qualify) the fee will typically be significantly higher than the attendance fee total (for a year's worth of IETF meetings) and is nearly always=20 insufficient to cover meeting cost. This is because an annual fee is usually not strongly correlated to the=20 number of attendees that a company will send. That=20 means you will pay an additional fee (often slightly more than half of the IETF attendance fee) for each attendee. All of that said, however, it is my impression (likely exaggerated - without actually looking into it) that the meeting fees have climbed by $50 each meeting for the last=20 several meetings. The perception is that the IETF fees may be getting out of control, and I am deeply concerned that a person wishing to attend - but unable to determine if they will be able to in advance - will soon have to pay more than a thousand US dollars to do so. It is an interesting question what changes are likely to occur in the way the IETF does business if the only people=20 who can attend are: o those people who are sufficiently destitute as to=20 qualify for the discounted rate (without being so=20 destitute that they cannot actually pay even that=20 rate), o the very small number who are so wealthy that they can afford to attend for completely altruistic purposes (betterment of mankind, etc.), o those professionals who are funded for support of=20 one or more specific commercial or agency agendas. =09 -- Eric Gray Principal Engineer Ericsson =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: YAO [mailto:healthyao@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:03 AM > To: IETF Secretariat; ietf@ietf.org > Cc: irsg@isi.edu; wgchairs@ietf.org; bofchairs@ietf.org > Subject: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration=20 >=20 >=20 > the early-bird > > price of USD 700.00.=20 > >=20 > > After Early-Bird cutoff - USD 850.00 >=20 > so expensive. >=20 >=20 > joining the IETF is luxury for individual. >=20 > IETF should not take the money from the individual pocket.=20 > and should absorb more finance support from big company >=20 > Why is it so expensive? >=20 > IETF lives in more luxury hotel? > IETFer eat more than before? > Meeting room is more expensive? > Salary is higher? >=20 > the price of ticket to join the IETF is not to encourage the=20 > individual with little dollars and small company to join the IETF. >=20 > Raising the ticket price is to raise the doorsill of IETF to=20 > exclude those who want to join but not enough dollars. >=20 > it seems that IETF is becoming a wealthy club. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "IETF Secretariat" > To: "IETF Announcement list" > Cc: ; ; > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 6:30 AM > Subject: 70th IETF - Registration=20 >=20 >=20 > > 70th IETF Meeting > > Vancouver, BC, Canada > > December 2-7, 2007 > >=20 > > Registration is now open for the 70th IETF Meeting! > >=20 > > You can register on line at:=20 > > http://www3.ietf.org/meetings/70-IETF.html > >=20 > > REGISTRATION INFORMATION: > > Early-Bird Registration - USD 700.00 > >=20 > > If you register and pay for your attendance to the IETF-70=20 > before NOON ET > > (17:00 UTC/GMT), Friday, 23 November 2007, you will pay the=20 > early-bird > > price of USD 700.00.=20 > >=20 > > After Early-Bird cutoff - USD 850.00 > >=20 > > You can still register and pay online at USD 850.00 until 17:00 > > Canada/Pacific Time Friday 30 November 2007 (01:00 UTC/GMT,=20 > Saturday 1 > > December 2007). > >=20 > > Full-time Student Registrations - USD 250.00 > >=20 > > Full-time students with proper ID are eligible to receive a=20 > special USD > > 250.00 student rate. Student rate is not subject to any late-fees. > > Students will also be able to register on-site at the=20 > special student > > rate. Failure to provide valid student ID on-site will=20 > revoke the special > > student status.=20 > >=20 > > CANCELLATION: > >=20 > > The cut-off for registration cancellation is Monday, 26=20 > November at 17:00 > > ET-US (22:00 UTC/GMT). Cancellations are subject to a 10%=20 > (ten percent) > > cancellation fee if requested by that date and time. > >=20 > > ON-SITE REGISTRATION: > >=20 > > You can register onsite at the meeting in Vancouver, BC,=20 > Canada starting > > Sunday, 2 December at 12:00 noon (local time). > >=20 > > The IETF meetings start Monday morning and run through=20 > Friday lunchtime, > > with late scheduling changes. Most training session take=20 > place on Sunday > > afternoon 2 December. Participants should plan their=20 > travel accordingly. > >=20 > > The IETF Secretariat > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > IETF-Announce mailing list > > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > >=20 From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 08:50:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITdIX-0000dY-1U; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:50:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITdIV-0000dE-NC; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:50:55 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITdIU-0008Dh-Bt; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:50:55 -0400 Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l87Corp0024967; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:50:53 GMT Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l87Cor01023433; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l87CSOtW134913; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l87CSJ55134906; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:28:19 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18145.17379.147732.753913@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:28:19 -0400 From: James Carlson To: YAO In-Reply-To: <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, IETF Secretariat , bofchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org YAO writes: > joining the IETF is luxury for individual. [...] > it seems that IETF is becoming a wealthy club. I agree it's a shame, but I disagree with your conclusions. The IETF isn't a membership organization. You don't pay any dues to belong to it, and there's no requirement to go to any meeting in order to be a full participant. The official business of the IETF is still conducted -- for free and without discrimination -- on open mailing lists. I hope it always remains that way. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Drevstadwubcx@SUSQUEHANNACAPITAL.COM Fri Sep 07 09:41:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITe5P-0008Td-81 for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:41:27 -0400 Received: from [62.123.49.7] (helo=STATIC-62-123-49-7.atlanet.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITe5O-0005GV-I7 for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:41:27 -0400 Received: from gabry ([174.110.25.87] helo=gabry) by STATIC-62-123-49-7.atlanet.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1mXwNH-000FBB-qA for wgchairs-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:41:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c7f154$c8822df0$07317b3e@gabry> From: "Ferguson Drevstad" To: Subject: tankstat Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:41:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7F165.8C0AFDF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7F165.8C0AFDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.hdashti.com/ How it is going wgchairs-archive Before Manster i had no women, now i have 3 going at once =3D ) Johnnie chinkezian ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7F165.8C0AFDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.hdashti.com/

How it is going wgchairs-archive

Before Manster i had no women, now i have 3 = going at=20 once =3D )

Johnnie chinkezian

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7F165.8C0AFDF0-- From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 09:51:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITeF1-0000Yk-GO; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:51:23 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITeF0-0000Ye-FU for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:51:22 -0400 Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.92]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITeEz-00014Q-5K for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:51:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 24656 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2007 13:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.11?) (andybierman@att.net@75.50.187.99 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2007 13:51:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1WY_vREVM1nLpEFN7XXlDunS3sbzhhAFB7glnDs413KBmVKG Message-ID: <46E156DD.9030804@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:49:17 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF018C7481@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> <03f401c7f14b$a5f2c320$0302a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <03f401c7f14b$a5f2c320$0302a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, IETF Secretariat , bofchairs@ietf.org, YAO , "Eric Gray $LO/EUS$" Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Adrian Farrel wrote: > We shall see, but I don't know that putting up the price necessarily > fixes the registration income issue. You only have to deter a relatively > small proportion of attendees to wipe out the increase in charge. > > I assume that the converse is also being applied: viz. cutting meeting > costs. It's hard for us oiks to tell because we only see: > - registration fee > - breakfasts/cookies > > Anyway, registration is still the smallest component of attendance for > me. Hotel and travel are still bigger problems, and I continue to wonder > whether we could increase attendance (and hence registration income) by > facilitating cheaper accommodation and travel. > It is easy to rationalize away Yao's concerns, especially for old-timers. The overall cost of meeting attendance keeps going up, and $700 to attend the IETF is not a small amount of money. Simple economics tells us that the number of attendees will continue to go down, the higher the costs get. One way to deal with the cost problem is to just ignore it, and focus instead on making IETF week as valuable as possible for as many people as possible. I think there has been a lot of progress in this area (Sunday tutorials, Wednesday beer night, etc. ;-) (I wonder how much the costs would go down if the meeting ended at 4PM Thursday instead of noon on Friday, and there was only one plenary night on Wednesday.) > Cheers, > Adrian Andy From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 10:47:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITf7j-0007xs-LN; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:47:55 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITf4a-0005u0-4G; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:44:40 -0400 Received: from yxa.extundo.com ([83.241.177.38]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITf4Y-0002K0-GY; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:44:40 -0400 Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [83.241.177.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l87EgbRX012008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:43:06 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: James Carlson References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> <18145.17379.147732.753913@gargle.gargle.HOWL> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:wgchairs@ietf.org::1IWT2gO3+mgAyHrZ:7RZa X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:healthyao@gmail.com::7Be1hghQXGiibjTh:AGb7 X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:james.d.carlson@sun.com::88y/GKZ/hjwEGoX5:7PTk X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:ietf@ietf.org::ZTi1heFJ7TBC0T2n:EPtj X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:bofchairs@ietf.org::hL+hUtM1JMIP6Olm:FnN9 X-Hashcash: 1:22:070907:ietf-secretariat@ietf.org::cpCAhEPM+vyk/g2B:IP7W Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:42:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <18145.17379.147732.753913@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (James Carlson's message of "Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:28:19 -0400") Message-ID: <87veamv8o2.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,SPF_PASS autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:47:54 -0400 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, IETF Secretariat , bofchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, YAO Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org James Carlson writes: > YAO writes: >> joining the IETF is luxury for individual. > [...] >> it seems that IETF is becoming a wealthy club. > > I agree it's a shame, but I disagree with your conclusions. The IETF > isn't a membership organization. You don't pay any dues to belong to > it, and there's no requirement to go to any meeting in order to be a > full participant. > > The official business of the IETF is still conducted -- for free and > without discrimination -- on open mailing lists. I hope it always > remains that way. 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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7F1B0.A181E090-- From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 12:09:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITgP6-0004nD-2T; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:09:56 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITgP3-0004eY-W2; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:09:54 -0400 Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.225.93]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITgP3-0000VI-LO; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:09:53 -0400 Received: from gwzpc (unknown[67.170.84.64]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070907160951b1300ed88ae>; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:09:52 +0000 From: "Glen Zorn" To: "'Andy Bierman'" , "'Adrian Farrel'" References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF018C7481@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> <03f401c7f14b$a5f2c320$0302a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46E156DD.9030804@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <46E156DD.9030804@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 09:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c7f169$6c45ead0$44d1c070$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcfxVi5SHFCMB9b2QHacdoysq0/rVQAEqLjw Content-Language: en-us X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, 'IETF Secretariat' , bofchairs@ietf.org, 'YAO' , "'Eric Gray $LO/EUS$'" Subject: RE: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org ... [gwz] (I wonder how much the costs would go down if the meeting ended at 4PM Thursday instead of noon on Friday, and there was only one plenary night on Wednesday.) [gwz] [gwz] Probably not at all. I only have experience with sponsoring one IETF, but in that case (& I believe generally) the meeting rooms were provided gratis. There are some perks to guaranteeing a hotel the rental of 1000+ rooms for a week or so... > Cheers, > Adrian Andy From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 12:59:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IThBE-0000PB-7S; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:59:40 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IThBC-0000Op-K2; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:59:38 -0400 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IThBC-0002AM-BF; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:59:38 -0400 Received: from [63.105.122.7] (account marshall_eubanks HELO [IPv6:::1]) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 8413481; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:59:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <001301c7f169$6c45ead0$44d1c070$@net> References: <389118096.17137@cnnic.cn> <036401c7f13e$ad076d80$236ff1da@yaojk> <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF018C7481@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> <03f401c7f14b$a5f2c320$0302a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46E156DD.9030804@andybierman.com> <001301c7f169$6c45ead0$44d1c070$@net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Eubanks Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:59:34 -0400 To: "Glen Zorn" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, 'IETF Secretariat' , bofchairs@ietf.org, 'YAO' , "'Eric Gray $LO/EUS$'" Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org On Sep 7, 2007, at 12:09 PM, Glen Zorn wrote: > ... > [gwz] > (I wonder how much the costs would go down if the meeting ended at 4PM > Thursday > instead of noon on Friday, and there was only one plenary night on > Wednesday.) > [gwz] > [gwz] Probably not at all. I only have experience with sponsoring > one IETF, > but in that case (& I believe generally) the meeting rooms were > provided > gratis. There are some perks to guaranteeing a hotel the rental of > 1000+ > rooms for a week or so... > > In the US and Canada, the catering charge pays for the meeting rooms. Elsewhere, meeting rooms are generally charged for and catering is correspondingly cheaper. In either case, there is a charge for per day. These charges are complicated and it can be misleading to just focus on one piece and not the whole package. One thing that could be done is to charge separately for breakfast, which is relatively expensive (but a pretty good bargain per attendee) and which not everyone uses. Regards Marshall >> Cheers, >> Adrian > > Andy > > > From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 13:59:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITi6g-0001hD-FJ; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:59:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITi6f-0001h7-LL for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:59:01 -0400 Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITi6e-0007sp-C0 for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:59:01 -0400 Received: from [206.176.144.212] (206-176-144-212.waymark.net [206.176.144.212]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id l87Hwvh5027584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:58:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: <07bb01c7efc1$cb2625f0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> <46DE832A.20808@pi.se> <07bb01c7efc1$cb2625f0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dean Willis Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:58:41 -0500 To: Spencer Dawkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org On Sep 5, 2007, at 8:36 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > So anyone whose working group doesn't rename is flying under the > radar of people who actually look at the ID announcements, > including current IAB and IESG members (who are WAY too busy to try > to check the WG home page to see whether each draft is really a WG > draft - as Andy said, that's the only way to know for sure). > > Does anyone actually USE this flexibility? Or are 99.9 percent of > the drafts named using this convention, but we can't assume the > convention in tool design, etc. because of the tiny percentage of > drafts that don't? > SIP has had a number of drafts that renamed to wg-00 and immediately went to the IESG. Of course, they were wg-27 or so before they got past the IESG, so don't assume we're doing anything right. We've also had many adopted-as-WG drafts resubmitted in their individual-name format, sometimes before several versions, before somebody got around to renaming them as -sip-. The most common reason for NOT renaming is, as you might guess, missing the -00 cutoff date. I'd guess this happens more than 50% of the time when a draft is transiting from individual to WG. It's kind of like the preapproval process for new WG drafts. If I took this seriously, I'd just "preapprove" a WG draft for every milestone that doesn't already have a WG draft attached before every IETF. Like great works of art, new WG drafts appear when they appear (which may be before they're ready), not because they're scheduled to appear. -- Dean From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 14:28:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITiZ7-0004GL-VO; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:28:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITiZ5-00047g-Ji; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:28:23 -0400 Received: from boreas.isi.edu ([128.9.160.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITiZ4-0008Tt-3F; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:28:23 -0400 Received: from gra.isi.edu (gra.isi.edu [128.9.160.133]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l87IRoBT024013; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Braden Received: (from braden@localhost) by gra.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) id LAA00242; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200709071827.LAA00242@gra.isi.edu> To: healthyao@gmail.com, james.d.carlson@sun.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: braden@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, ietf-secretariat@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org *> *> The official business of the IETF is still conducted -- for free and *> without discrimination -- on open mailing lists. I hope it always *> remains that way. *> Unfortuantley, a lot of experience in the Internet community has shown us that it is very difficult to reach actual DECISIONS on mailing lists, although they work fine for DISCUSSIONs. Maybe we need an online "hum" mechanism to reach mailing-list consensus (but authentication then becomes a problem). Bob Braden From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 14:32:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITid0-0008GT-CJ; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:32:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITicy-0008Cu-IN for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:32:24 -0400 Received: from dhcp-18-188-10-61.dyn.mit.edu ([18.188.10.61] helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITicx-00007h-0d for wgchairs@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:32:24 -0400 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 65D7148C4; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: Dean Willis References: <46DD7B3D.9030209@pi.se> <002e01c7ef62$e7fb7b80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <46DE5AA3.8000200@pi.se> <075901c7ef9a$35d7ddd0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> <46DE832A.20808@pi.se> <07bb01c7efc1$cb2625f0$6801a8c0@china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:32:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dean Willis's message of "Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:58:41 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Cc: Working Group Chairs Subject: Re: working group documents and cut-off dates X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working Group Chairs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org krb-wg has had several WG drafts approved still under their individual names. From wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 15:52:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITjsb-0006ns-GA; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:52:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITjsY-0006Ua-3P; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:52:34 -0400 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITjsW-00027j-QH; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:52:34 -0400 Received: from neophyte.qualcomm.com (neophyte.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.149]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id l87JqT0H017541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:52:30 -0700 Received: from [10.50.69.196] (qconnect-10-50-69-196.qualcomm.com [10.50.69.196]) by neophyte.qualcomm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/1.0) with ESMTP id l87JqSO1025798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:52:29 -0700 Message-ID: <46E1AC01.3050800@qualcomm.com> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:52:33 -0700 From: Lakshminath Dondeti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, wgchairs@ietf.org, IESG IESG , IAB IAB