test link

Hi Tim,

Tha= nks for the pointer to the draft.=C2=A0 I think there are two issues here w= hich are large enough that you may wish to think about the implied architec= ture.=C2=A0 The first is a syntactic issue:=C2=A0 the use of "#" = as the only delimiter in the proposed URIs.=C2=A0=C2=A0 As RFC 3986 describ= es it, the "#" delimiter is used for identifying fragments and is= thus dependent on the MIME type of the retrieved object:

   The fragment's format and resol=
ution is therefore
   dependent on the media type [RFC2046] of a potentially retrieved
   representation, even though such a retrieval is only performed if the
   URI is dereferenced.

This does not appear to match your us= age. The usage you appear to be seeking is a transposition of the string to= a subdomain of a well-known domain, so that a client can attempt retrieval= via the three methods you enumerate; it is not clear from the document whe= ther there will ever be more than one permitted domain here.=C2=A0 A simple= r implementation would appear to be drop:drop-string.well-known-domain.exam= ple.

Second, your document appears to imply that t= he drop string is used to augment existing telephone numbers and addresses,= but it is not terribly clear how it does this.=C2=A0 One interpretation mi= ght be that the drop-string functions as a permanent identifier with the cu= rrent telephone number, address, or other contact methods being available a= s a retrieved resource.=C2=A0 This section:

Primarily functi=
oning as a locator there are three ways to get to a
'drop' URI resource, http, srv records, and private resolution for
anything not found using the previous two methods.  The first, or
default, action is when an application invokes the 'drop' URI it wi=
ll
cause a lookup for matching application information starting with an A
record [RFC1035], then on to Service records [RFC2782], and then on to
other available records that may offer a new rule set for resolution.

raises a problem with this approach:=C2=A0 the records returned= by SRV are fundamentally different, in that they are onward pointers to ot= her domains and resolutions.=C2=A0 If the implication is that HTTP is alway= s used to retrieve drop records and the appropriate server is discovered by= either using an A record, an SRV record, or private resolution, then this = section needs a major re-write (to include AAAA records and to clarify the = intent).=C2=A0 It's also not clear what long lived utility a new scheme= serves here if the result is always https://some-string.discovered-domain.example/ .= =C2=A0

If there were a different guarantee of uniqueness than the = DNS, this would seem closer to a URN than other URI forms, or possibly an i= mplementation of the handle system (as DOIs are).=C2=A0 There is, unfortuna= tely, not enough detail in the draft on the overall system to be confident = of that.

regards,

Ted Hardie

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:21 PM Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com> wrote:

=20 =20 =20

Hello everyone,=C2=A0

This is a request for a review of the 'drop' URI scheme.=C2=A0 T= he draft can be found here <=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-s= cheme/>.=C2=A0 Thank you.=C2=A0

Sincerely,=C2=A0

Tim McSweeney

=20

_______________________________________________
Uri-review mailing list
Uri-review@ietf.or= g
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review=

--0000000000000a775c05a6022ea7-- From nobody Tue May 19 08:47:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358693A0783 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:47:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H8Hn95vfWfBg for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 968AA3A08CD for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw15.schlund.de ([10.72.72.62]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4G3R-1ijEwx3Vgp-00rnIo for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:47:00 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 11:47:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1516971670.87548.1589903220738@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev30 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:cUKpPG2IsJ6/FCOhI3KkhJKIM5dh15rmVEVfjS8+J0ha7STY8vq oVVdoepUVf2dxnWYDhyw5wggRQaw/aNz4uzFiwH9JqGBx8aM2BWLV62eLfu94zZ60a+SoNQ aqyj0/7w7+7VjsliPUopZbZMhk4UXSeo/CQpeEnvf7IhDK0UK5uEZBafQRRWYcOevIpsH71 IY/qBJDSgwOsP56QIY/+A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:97LCiEA5pLI=:6xKnnn2UnCqzAIZ60gXw7x vsnq//+f3+91HE4PCW5m4f+DLEdSP1CCcM+/9yT+qrVyMu4w+Lf5jjSEunzOhLntL5e4wPT/f m85Zudf8ncjWMzKiG46fJg3I+ND7TtGp5TtDMCkDWK8dyrDJYnZ20BdYZX22TJjL5LO50lZR0 twqi5j9O5+uvShkz1aX+0Gcm8tPiUXm4OaWBXfqluYyTxnW5jAiQ9KEB117UFwS1YY8a/4TeB cGQDa1ZhZfegrVf6yL07Aez4jfePm71q4jC/A5HBmtHfpYYa2PB1v6VnLNV7ATYVhi1PCzUIv DQtBDOCW/wTLqtpD5JZgvlMxruQDLFKf6LrBKFVVsXst2eIgJ3RK1BWSVhfpcOD57CHcdV9o9 YeuJqxRzwa8iC0VFK5zNMN1Q3PcinJx3j7t9xv3h5ckSw8sPVvtq/xJdd7gVEWgQXkPAuN7Hy mcT4Q36ZuMKs1VIbFZRPAK07cXjw9gMIJO3onmU6Z11e3RmMK15E/TrJXxZf/31W4CiCoremo QUtD134cQIbL9FIfkgw6mNUY56fxc2SzlfGO+NutiLh+/+i3wd6m+HYnnZ+rLUayqsKf0/LLd ulop9/1bXfnoYHhras9EAmEJU3z8+hr5DzxYbNZaWyddgRjhZHC7FYnY5Hm0jud3xG3zouK/7 VsSvzb+54WPXXV2zgMu++HT63kfNObZaNa82Dy3ntpoRH9CcU0ijfdPJQ8Ikfud6vxmFAjk12 zLAfe9azNWAv1fMSlwnkUD1QH/P5Rm57IYVrMVe0+VVYvQwYOvHKxeQL69ncXNjegFBi08DK+ yk2YibRd9Cb0Wjef1NY/QomtHYWLUYlDQAJUg9BTtgV7j60gXdRlNLRtpQhJ9d1SNXGbB2M Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:47:03 -0000

Hi Henry,

I apologize for anything that was misleading as that was certainly not my intent. I will separate those two statements. The only similarity I wanted to point out was that 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' use less than all five scheme components. Perhaps 'geo:' would have been a better example?

For the syntax, I wasn't sure exactly how much info was needed. I thought that only the scheme and path were required. Maybe I could change the reference to [RFC3986] section 2.2? If you think it would be better, should I write it out more like this?

path = / path-noscheme ; begins with a non-colon segment

/ path-rootless ; begins with a segment

/ path-empty ; zero characters

path-noscheme = segment-nz-nc *( "/" segment )

path-rootless = segment-nz *( "/" segment )

path-empty = 0<pchar>

segment = *pchar

segment-nz = 1*pchar

segment-nz-nc = 1*( unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / "@" )

; non-zero-length segment without any colon ":"

pchar = unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / ":" / "@"

Hi Martin,

I know at first glance it might look out of place but the #fg34htx part isn't a fragment. I think the "drop" part will be recognized as the scheme name because of its dereferencing.

On May 19, 2020 at 5:40 AM "Henry S. Thompson" < ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

Timothy Mcsweeney writes:

This is a request for a review of the 'drop' URI scheme. The

draft can be found here

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/

Without commenting on any other aspect of the proposed scheme, and

mostly just to save people time, I found the following aspect of the

proposal somewhat misleading:

"Similar to the previously registered 'tel' [RFC3966] and

'leaptofrogans' [RFC8589] URIs, the 'drop' URI scheme is

syntactically correct but does not need to use all 5 of the

parse-able components available to it. The 'drop' scheme uses the

number sign '#' as a general delimiter as seen in Appendix

A. Collected ABNF [RFC3986]. The scheme syntax is as follows:

" drop-uri = 'drop#' character string

drop # fg34htx

\__/ \_/ \_____/

| | |

<scheme> | <scheme-specific-part>

<gen-delim>

"

I read this as implying that

1) 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' URIs did not begin "tel:" and

"leaptofrogans:";

2) The 3986 ABNF for URIs recognises "drop#fg34htx" as a URI.

Neither of these is in fact that case. The two referenced schemes

require ':' after the 'scheme' component, and the 'URI' production does

_not_ recognise the above example. (The 'URI-reference' production does,

but not using the 'scheme' production to cover the "drop" part.)

ht

--

Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh

10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440

Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk

URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/

[mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam]

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in

Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

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I will separate those two statements. The only similarity I wanted to > point out was that 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' use less than all five scheme > components. Perhaps 'geo:' would have been a better example? > > For the syntax, I wasn't sure exactly how much info was needed. I thought that > only the scheme and path were required. Maybe I could change the reference to > [RFC3986] section 2.2? If you think it would be better, should I write it out > more like this? In the extreme, only the scheme is needed. "dav:" is an example. But without a colon, it's not a scheme. > path = / path-noscheme ; begins with a non-colon segment > / path-rootless ; begins with a segment > / path-empty ; zero characters > > path-noscheme = segment-nz-nc *( "/" segment ) > path-rootless = segment-nz *( "/" segment ) > path-empty = 0 > > segment = *pchar > segment-nz = 1*pchar > segment-nz-nc = 1*( unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / "@" ) > ; non-zero-length segment without any colon ":" > > pchar = unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / ":" / "@" I'm not sure what these parts of the grammar are supposed to do here, but you can't just start in the middle of the grammar and claim that you get an URI. > Hi Martin, > I know at first glance it might look out of place but the #fg34htx part isn't a > fragment. By the definitions of RFC 3986, it is a fragment (identifier). This is independent of what you want to call it. > I think the "drop" part will be recognized as the scheme name because > of its dereferencing. Please do the following, as an easy experiment: - Create a simple Web page somewhere, e.g. called base.html, and in it, include the following part: Link to drop URI - In the same directory, create another Web page, with the file name simply being 'drop' (without extension). Way down in that Web page, include the following: Fragment fg34htx - Activate the link in the first page, and observe how it goes to the fragment in the second page. [If you set up the pages on the server, you may have to take some care that the 'drop' file is really served with an HTML media type; this may be a bit tricky.] If my explanations don't help, maybe doing this experiment will show you what I mean. Regards, Martin. P.S.: The solution is simple. If you change "drop#fg34htx" to "drop:fg34htx", then you actually match the URI production and no longer have a fragment id. >> On May 19, 2020 at 5:40 AM "Henry S. Thompson" < ht@inf.ed.ac.uk >> > wrote: >> >> >> Timothy Mcsweeney writes: >> >>> This is a request for a review of the 'drop' URI scheme. The >>> draft can be found here >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/ >> Without commenting on any other aspect of the proposed scheme, and >> mostly just to save people time, I found the following aspect of the >> proposal somewhat misleading: >> >> "Similar to the previously registered 'tel' [RFC3966] and >> 'leaptofrogans' [RFC8589] URIs, the 'drop' URI scheme is >> syntactically correct but does not need to use all 5 of the >> parse-able components available to it. The 'drop' scheme uses the >> number sign '#' as a general delimiter as seen in Appendix >> A. Collected ABNF [RFC3986]. The scheme syntax is as follows: >> >> " drop-uri = 'drop#' character string >> >> drop # fg34htx >> \__/ \_/ \_____/ >> | | | >> | >> >> " >> >> I read this as implying that >> >> 1) 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' URIs did not begin "tel:" and >> "leaptofrogans:"; >> 2) The 3986 ABNF for URIs recognises "drop#fg34htx" as a URI. >> >> Neither of these is in fact that case. The two referenced schemes >> require ':' after the 'scheme' component, and the 'URI' production does >> _not_ recognise the above example. (The 'URI-reference' production does, >> but not using the 'scheme' production to cover the "drop" part.) >> >> ht >> -- >> Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh >> 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 >> Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk >> URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ >> [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam] >> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Uri-review mailing list >> Uri-review@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review > > > _______________________________________________ > Uri-review mailing list > Uri-review@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review > -- Prof. Dr.sc. Martin J. Dürst Department of Intelligent Information Technology College of Science and Engineering Aoyama Gakuin University Fuchinobe 5-1-10, Chuo-ku, Sagamihara 252-5258 Japan From nobody Wed May 20 14:38:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BE53A02BB for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 14:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MA8PPhMF_1Ec for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 14:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 177343A00D9 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 14:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw06.schlund.de ([10.72.72.52]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MN2Bq-1ji9Bc17Ga-006bMk for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:38:36 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 17:38:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <122709156.27676.1590010716156@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <1516971670.87548.1589903220738@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mJAtLpK4hsZxErC5nzhLIxweUQhS86lRXmDxqqVqabUiYIPh4ln WMuN9381o29x7Uefz/nLn0OyOL2HDBAUysIpoHSevxVGlQDgsAI9HBHI13tB/90i1bmSP8H 3Gwof7D8D5pJs4xaYUqgu70PQ546YrqAlzm6SavkB90bdpAsIcahcYNttC8OKl8TfLCLOuN hOOkqnJSe7GmbN1gbJ5Iw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:oPYCtclYQnY=:IN4r/qV3RlTTw+tInWzqCY GYYtduFD6uOzwfRZ0v9Jn1nPW2JFmUvfrbsn6HEADLUy7AqlY59DdS3pR+4LRg76VhvGFEd8b yRlDiNnywyItgAxKE+4qzvMJ9KpUtJvClu3ixUo1dre/Yh0P3F6UYQMy/z3DRUvy8PTBITWwn +uW6G5Xb/0Ll3B6QZoIant60amX2JzprzXXEXESVSBIxXa8CcWSjB1nJBaB31+smVo0ool7LY EtXb3F90ixtE+ywqwicoP+np+ND72pQ8hjiCJIblv29ooN1Y4CtxZmlxYeYyBCh6nkLobtz8U RkQP0UOAs1dLJpk0FIMMrXBWU7WjWkqDk5aGrrYz+ML/Cme0DYz7zsWmIm8a5Dt96xdlPDGJc 3aUt5z1vbY3S8QjMFX68/v9Y7yqBdBm1QE//9zwMwG5PYiBWlJh7kKYLy9m/nRJNd8lnrw4QY 4Q1SUSYajRbJkCyqHXSGwiClBOq5ggQmhh9K+CTBfw59WgIAkXqz2fqCsYhUDNgiLtXhsvrFL 3g7Cl4k+UWyXSh+zALRLy/IiKbzaxbUFKn+HrVVXMwX8/MeKtHsh8CAIBCnrljEz0tvzSGNud UQR80hW0VU72iCs2m3gATpEl7hHHHKeBdRSAmPBbuDsEfhwb8vUCuF4dXpEd0kMSmM6JhG3EG poCu5YZw9MC5vR0Ajgub8zoEBdtYuEpKHFw8vhevNGlxzcY+xpKscxuEGG1TF8Ko/lzQGG7Jv C6RuaaaU82TqqY4pcKm4byey6qcL58YL6sWiLoTHrE+LoM54YPz923bRGAZl+vb3rRYQscAsr GnkqoPl6+APP3RyRdD9KE8bhgqCfJvJksw1rLl0bMHIB55Y8Ibzt95trRHL+kVgG6Jl82Nt Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 21:38:39 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Martin,

I followed your instructions and I could not recreate what you wanted m= e to see.

Here are the two pages I made:

<http://www.soupsdeli.com/base.html>

<http://www.soupsdeli.com/drop>

Perhaps it had something to do with the hosting provider?? I'm no= t sure what's wrong here.

Anyways, I'm glad to be here doing this. Being an outsider, I was= very nervous about a review on this proposed scheme because everyone on th= is mailing list is 1000X more knowledgeable than me. I thought for su= re that this review process was going to be a good way for the IETF crowd t= o blast my ignorance and be rid of me for a long while.

Just getting past the nits checker was a bit of a challenge for me.&nbs= p; But I have come to realize the real value in airing things out early is = the advantage of perspective. I suspected I already knew the outcome = of your experiment, but not wanting to discount other ideas too quickly&nbs= p;is something I could use more practice with. And I'm glad I tried i= t. Seeing things with a more open mind helped me find an error in thi= s first draft that I haven't been called out on yet! (will be fixing that i= n draft-01). So I am already grateful.

Maybe we could do a different experiment? Maybe you know of a way= for me to try out my dereferencing and test the "#" as a delimiter?

Sincerely,

Tim

On May 20, 2020 at 2:25 AM "Martin J. D=C3=BCrst" <=20 duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>= ; wrote:

Hello Timothy,

On 20/05/2020 00:47, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Hi Henry,

I apologize for anything that was misleading as that was certainly not= my

intent. I will separate those two statements. The only similarity I wa= nted to

point out was that 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' use less than all five sc= heme

components. Perhaps 'geo:' would have been a better example?

For the syntax, I wasn't sure exactly how much info was needed. I thou= ght that

only the scheme and path were required. Maybe I could change the refer= ence to

[RFC3986] section 2.2? If you think it would be better, should I write= it out

more like this?

In the extreme, only the scheme is needed. "dav:" is an example. But

without a colon, it's not a scheme.

path =3D / path-noscheme ; begins with a non-colon segment

/ path-rootless ; begins with a segment

/ path-empty ; zero characters

path-noscheme =3D segment-nz-nc *( "/" segment )

path-rootless =3D segment-nz *( "/" segment )

path-empty =3D 0<pchar>

segment =3D *pchar

segment-nz =3D 1*pchar

segment-nz-nc =3D 1*( unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / "@" )

; non-zero-length segment without any colon ":"

pchar =3D unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / ":" / "@"

I'm not sure what these parts of the grammar are supposed to do here,

but you can't just start in the middle of the grammar and claim that yo= u

get an URI.

Hi Martin,

I know at first glance it might look out of place but the #fg34htx par= t isn't a

fragment.

By the definitions of RFC 3986, it is a fragment (identifier). This is

independent of what you want to call it.

I think the "drop" part will be recognized as the scheme name because

of its dereferencing.

Please do the following, as an easy experiment:

- Create a simple Web page somewhere, e.g. called base.html,

and in it, include the following part:

<a href=3D'drop#fg34htx'>Link to drop URI</a>

- In the same directory, create another Web page, with the file name

simply being 'drop' (without extension). Way down in that Web page,

include the following:

<a id=3D'#fg34htx' name=3D'#fg34htx'>Fragment fg34htx</a>

- Activate the link in the first page, and observe how it goes to the

fragment in the second page.

[If you set up the pages on the server, you may have to take some care

that the 'drop' file is really served with an HTML media type; this may

be a bit tricky.]

If my explanations don't help, maybe doing this experiment will show yo= u

what I mean.

Regards, Martin.

P.S.: The solution is simple. If you change "drop#fg34htx" to

"drop:fg34htx", then you actually match the URI production and no longe= r

have a fragment id.

>> On May 19, 2020 at 5:40 AM "Henry S. Thompson" <=20 ht@inf.ed.ac.uk

>> <mailto:=20 ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:

>>

>>

>> Timothy Mcsweeney writes:

>>

>>> This is a request for a review of the 'drop' URI scheme. T= he

>>> draft can be found here

>>>=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/

>> Without commenting on any other aspect of the proposed scheme,= and

>> mostly just to save people time, I found the following aspect = of the

>> proposal somewhat misleading:

>>

>> "Similar to the previously registered 'tel' [RFC3966] and

>> 'leaptofrogans' [RFC8589] URIs, the 'drop' URI scheme is

>> syntactically correct but does not need to use all 5 of the

>> parse-able components available to it. The 'drop' scheme uses = the

>> number sign '#' as a general delimiter as seen in Appendix

>> A. Collected ABNF [RFC3986]. The scheme syntax is as follows:

>>

>> " drop-uri =3D 'drop#' character string

>>

>> drop # fg34htx

>> \__/ \_/ \_____/

>> | | |

>> <scheme> | <scheme-specific-part>

>> <gen-delim>

>> "

>>

>> I read this as implying that

>>

>> 1) 'tel' and 'leaptofrogans' URIs did not begin "tel:" and

>> "leaptofrogans:";

>> 2) The 3986 ABNF for URIs recognises "drop#fg34htx" as a URI.

>>

>> Neither of these is in fact that case. The two referenced sche= mes

>> require ':' after the 'scheme' component, and the 'URI' produc= tion does

>> _not_ recognise the above example. (The 'URI-reference' produc= tion does,

>> but not using the 'scheme' production to cover the "drop" part= .)

>>

>> ht

>> --

>> Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinbu= rgh

>> 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 65= 0-4440

>> Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail:=20 ht@inf.ed.ac.uk <mailto:=20 ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>

>> URL:=20 http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/

>> [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it= is forged spam]

>>

>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered i= n

>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Uri-review mailing list

>>=20 Uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to:=20 Uri-review@ietf.org>

>>=20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review<= /a>

--

Prof. Dr.sc. Martin J. D=C3=BCrst

Department of Intelligent Information Technology

College of Science and Engineering

Aoyama Gakuin University

Fuchinobe 5-1-10, Chuo-ku, Sagamihara

252-5258 Japan

=20 From nobody Wed May 20 20:36:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770B13A0A68 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9XYj5f6d-d30 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-fallback-a1.dreamhost.com (pdx1-sub0-mail-fallback-a1.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCB4C3A0A43 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [10.35.42.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pdx1-sub0-mail-fallback-a1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 520F027791C; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5FE7E0BE; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (c-73-245-214-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [73.245.214.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mail@dan.tobias.name) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9E0A67F673; Wed, 20 May 2020 20:34:01 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a35 From: "Daniel R. Tobias" To: Timothy Mcsweeney Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 23:34:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <122709156.27676.1590010716156@email.ionos.com> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, , <122709156.27676.1590010716156@email.ionos.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.73.639) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Content-description: Mail message body X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddutddgjedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfffggfukfgjfhfotgfgsehtsfertdfftddunecuhfhrohhmpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeilefhheejteeifffgvedutdekjeegtdetffeuhffffeffleehvdehudffhfdvkeenucffohhmrghinhepshhouhhpshguvghlihdrtghomhdpuggrnhdrihhnfhhonecukfhppeejfedrvdeghedrvddugedrudduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopegluddtrddtrddtrddvngdpihhnvghtpeejfedrvdeghedrvddugedrudduhedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdffrghnihgvlhcutfdrucfvohgsihgrshdfuceouggrnhesthhosghirghsrdhnrghmvgeqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepuggrnhesthhosghirghsrdhnrghmvgdpnhhrtghpthhtohepuhhrihdqrhgvvhhivgifsehivghtfhdrohhrgh Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 03:36:05 -0000 On 20 May 2020 at 17:38, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > I followed your instructions and I could not recreate what you wanted > me to see. Here are the two pages I made: > > > > > Perhaps it had something to do with the hosting provider??=A0 I'm not > sure what's wrong here.=A0=A0 This is the content of your first page: test link

Link to drop URI

As you can see, the "href" value doesn't have "drop#fg34htx" by itself as requested; it has a "http://" before it. This transforms it into a http URI with "drop" as its domain, which my browser "helpfully" converts into a link to drop.com. It would presumably then go to the fragment #fg34htx in that page if such a fragment existed. -- =3D=3D Dan =3D=3D Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ From nobody Wed May 20 21:08:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE113A0AA8 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 21:08:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BS1XfjtDGkAd for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 21:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3D1A3A0AA6 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 21:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw04.schlund.de ([10.72.72.50]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MHIph-1jp2eL3p6B-00E7IO for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 06:08:54 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 00:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1888561123.43509.1590034134659@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, , <122709156.27676.1590010716156@email.ionos.com> <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FMKiz6raTd78ja9FpASNUq6EIGQWlifcb/WVYmjv1U4mooQpNev 8hZT33oiht+7BIDh8HMrVviOYFs2I3gO44n7xge9XPbtuOjKjtDJ09y0wmitGjbTbZU7O2H Mj2ssMv4nvP4vQjv3X1pPrS0kY/Ltwxt5WJ71Ar3fw+9rbbXJlyUwWMxxPjAenMq+uwJWnF gShZIx50a5PwoMbRTkd9Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:QkZpf8zgUuQ=:AO/CkLxbJusFVoBLZGcraZ kUkiB37jXsJmbJQjKTittmTt88VY/DXOylTgZgfLHkcN33vLoEbUu2XDmmrLctYLVMIZGV4ro 7mhyuKHz2naxfeM2LOv0QwZHfR4uGTyGjX8DhfI7DiKt6roQaAsidZcfwTnWZsmzMtVyz0lTJ NpYg7bwvJzvEyq5FYtBYGGGmuamPgrzJ14PRvxId+ogwOJJpCPp0xH1VlYLnN9pQLxADnqy4/ UFj2BqUN1RKJO4lLDRlaz+blay3AW8jdQxrfawXCP/y48E2DNkVdqaiztGEO6sJsG3m9+Erss SecHYQHDO4B1eLCGe13FHpugUj/RZo2DMu1AwUzpJYchr17rm6qY22bGsWhe2euee78IkZQHT 5qFZsl8R5QCUikqDkvhDOcuvRsGTWNNU/mp9nagTimL2qnJfEOMJskj6pLHtyJHePqOso3WwA aYnAuITK2YyZmXBzAQjFQaWLpLtnzYsdND3aTaeF+sFH5E0xbOpgZPoGY2DITPmr2sN7zzqi/ BpvDMRelSi/Gt3ApzrWKYcydVAnMYKccU6vV41an3h3ZSpSLnUC+u8Jafjl72SkvKhvnEYhB9 MoAxpJAdpHErwuZXzkmiCg/QUN/JYXIMmV8mQYLkwYWUGCwnDAtJhua1SEkDQia7uyu++Sx5s V4KcPJH52rkqmorUi1kJUH3h5SrIrbXOQJ3SXoowltI+Rg8DZGfjG5fFhB89jdZxEU7rs7Cgi PERS8qWeQheJ70aER/1x9SEjPp+dneswu/RRjTDoyqfbLswwjyuWROFUH6aNy8nga1FjyUEC/ 59wcVAxWHDKcQsU21jJuZaoSPSgQG3xSuaqw7ZcY1GUD372hEQjzO8QGGHMsmx1cpvFDr4i Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 04:08:58 -0000

hmm, it looks like my email client made it into a link. I fixed it and it works perfectly! Thank you Daniel.

On May 20, 2020 at 11:34 PM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 20 May 2020 at 17:38, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

I followed your instructions and I could not recreate what you wanted

me to see. Here are the two pages I made:

< http://www.soupsdeli.com/base.html>

< http://www.soupsdeli.com/drop>

Perhaps it had something to do with the hosting provider?? I'm not

sure what's wrong here.

This is the content of your first page:

<!doctype html>

<html>

<head><meta charset="us-ascii">

<title>test link</title>

</head>

<body>

<div> <h2><a href=' http://drop#fg34htx' target="_blank"

rel="noopener">Link to drop URI</a></div>

</body>

</html>

As you can see, the "href" value doesn't have "drop#fg34htx" by

itself as requested; it has a " http://" before it. This transforms it

into a http URI with "drop" as its domain, which my browser

"helpfully" converts into a link to drop.com. It would presumably

then go to the fragment #fg34htx in that page if such a fragment

existed.

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

From nobody Fri May 22 14:29:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44AB3A0CD7 for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 14:29:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.774 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.774 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JECZbkNJ9fjr for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2258F3A0C9C for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw04.schlund.de ([10.72.72.50]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Ld00U-1jC1DV0oK0-00iCzZ for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 23:29:29 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 17:29:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney Cc: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <624184630.116213.1590182968873@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, , <122709156.27676.1590010716156@email.ionos.com> <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1/jlfhUBPvzS5/BuFN0XyQYKt4zJYFM/iSsd9Sj86rO/Qbg4Yk5 Tn4wJZ8TV9MjXL5cMrJiM2iGmWF8z1+GMfNqmJaR/tPNSUYCUTQIab186+ipYMwDISBjxPe FKjhnJ7uIiK7i8Cpc0h7LxLTpYiFHCZwOvNNUYHIWzTh+Si8Pb/b/cuzMEPhZTNdxugyBOY ci1I5e6pISU0sp3xP7Q6Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:NxWmwrvLYgY=:QFbc//H+Upo5aABDTQClUP Z1KyeRlFzU6yjw09lbZS9MUvoVSBHu2Zoi8WINbHZBssjj1e66VGPAaW9dSDoT0RfmNtCrdZ7 cT9Dk8TbkmdNmsPLUutXebaWZzB3RL6AH+2A2fLCUKUX4EMcOShq4w9acaHhfISVSoEkeXYu7 97wQmZjW1uIUn6zTLbiANiWmvX/VWnIH8UeQ1FebnS6HpWX+6GuZ+Z+Cp/qBYI27LnG1BJnNE RNLun3HIXXi60+XOGG8OzOqwHO0x0Cd2ORuJ2PfrvgYosj2xCmKRKxFVTEeSq5yHZFOoJewi4 DQFDvIPFSCqZ8aKqhLFmW4Xa8RFHpv93x8nBP4nCgU4kAlxAq3soOKugULkCa/vwec8IPVg5f yFbdMSa2a+QLikcZyi+slDNu7AXZvZPR1e5FxXGfCnwXpNbiiGWblwqWZpG3qIHXspQH4KxV1 DXpQCwfVBAPxfs+oMB1Tw904NORiM05elinWgAagDEZM1VbZxaMh0mBvVQ3L8kuhgbX/5K/hE 6AhCJYtRnSknE8Wt0XCdXwEFFBSbb+aVoUD9lzRke6d66gmPMM2pFoQtJk1kOyOG6xZaH00Dd Uvd4ydAYZKfztnV7QFR7V1oDw13v962B6LNSjUKweG2Pn3xzOhBcb1mZsmus/uf7gMdrAacJo 6+F3CGdtZWuggPPOf/lGJaCUyVuv222HwDnUi6A+4WSmyCI5g2p4CBpwynzL4KrCU/jDWxVkp /GfdS30msx5KiXxrq8KRv7jVpjnc6mBy5WXpBnf5vhS+ChbxHJ3FPZhngU/QR3ybPJsKzF3/s IMGRTdyG9mBmty/4eIw3nFI6BPgpVnvwfvYmcLCP7U1PsKHf9CG2zxE5e1oh/omFYHXL/xt Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 21:29:34 -0000

Hello everyone,

The second draft of the 'drop' URI scheme is available and can be found here < https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Tim McSweeney

On May 20, 2020 at 11:34 PM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 20 May 2020 at 17:38, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

I followed your instructions and I could not recreate what you wanted

me to see. Here are the two pages I made:

< http://www.soupsdeli.com/base.html>

< http://www.soupsdeli.com/drop>

Perhaps it had something to do with the hosting provider?? I'm not

sure what's wrong here.

This is the content of your first page:

<!doctype html>

<html>

<head><meta charset="us-ascii">

<title>test link</title>

</head>

<body>

<div> <h2><a href=' http://drop#fg34htx' target="_blank"

rel="noopener">Link to drop URI</a></div>

</body>

</html>

As you can see, the "href" value doesn't have "drop#fg34htx" by

itself as requested; it has a " http://" before it. This transforms it

into a http URI with "drop" as its domain, which my browser

"helpfully" converts into a link to drop.com. It would presumably

then go to the fragment #fg34htx in that page if such a fragment

existed.

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

From nobody Sat May 23 16:31:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BABB3A0F57 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 16:31:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J242wER9a-Zt for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cheetah.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (cheetah.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B2B43A0F58 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C135640D2E for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:31:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-14-14.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.14]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B4AD3640BE7 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:31:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Sat, 23 May 2020 23:31:38 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Turn-Army: 0cb7bb856cd6db28_1590276697980_21279769 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1590276697980:1881812034 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1590276697980 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C8E990A6 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 16:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (c-73-245-214-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [73.245.214.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mail@dan.tobias.name) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A52B19B24B for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 16:31:36 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a47 From: "Daniel R. Tobias" To: uri-review@ietf.org Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 19:31:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <624184630.116213.1590182968873@email.ionos.com> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name>, <624184630.116213.1590182968873@email.ionos.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.73.639) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Content-description: Mail message body X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudduiedgvdefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfffggfukfgjfhfotgfgsehtsfertdfftddunecuhfhrohhmpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedufeejveetvdehheehleelffevveehjedtueejleelgeefjefgudetgfethfffgfenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdgurghnrdhinhhfohenucfkphepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgdutddrtddrtddrvdgnpdhinhgvthepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehurhhiqdhrvghvihgvfiesihgvthhfrdhorhhg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 23:31:42 -0000 On 22 May 2020 at 17:29, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > The second draft of the 'drop' URI scheme is available and can be > found here <=A0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>.=A0 Thank > you.=A0 This doesn't seem to resolve any of the issues people have raised; it still omits the mandatory colon after the scheme, and puts its main content, used for resource resolution and retrieval, in a fragment identifier, which is intended for client-specific post-processing after a document is retrieved. -- =3D=3D Dan =3D=3D Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ From nobody Sat May 23 20:37:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CF63A107B for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 20:37:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6W5eROxLmr1N for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DB003A1020 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw00.schlund.de ([10.72.72.46]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M2bMR-1imWH426FR-00sLed for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 05:37:43 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 23:37:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <811217250.273727.1590291463007@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name>, <624184630.116213.1590182968873@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1h4+KrDfzoUZOzsV+Ekoy/SiOmaDQUHvQezB0hb/sXCB58sYyAA vDbQopgPU48F5OPXrBIAqmI3Tfl43M4CgYq8LKR719YAod5Xottwf5HRmBM7nKlGJerLBmP CXc256Elg9poYsj8xHtfHd+e2ms9Pla12r2TSRNqynYVPV8xHxBZXrKlk4AedMA75H4j5y5 bKgarpgtH16q8Ytcds5ew== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:JDfrFKDe9jI=:r08o96P410FOOQvA7nw/o9 gEMHsUycX9Z9UiPSLxhgdOaNSKauGLQRnAeCQvLmulhw59f7oBU+D9YVTGtTO4AJWqe4a5sMf aoSD9TVdC3J8oXGlLASE5TUq0hvCm09TGNXTNIJd8+zxKVg3so59c56GMmJ2egHDXRwCdu25H +qKrs5QRHVyyPDY7oEf5bGRpSK4btBgvPA+A3Hb2ZjMe9J3B09RJzs7slmePc5vZFakSekesj NkwwXxTGj362jyrCTgfUuT8X1WHxPuBYN/hQLR+2yd34o0Xbv9iMBMw/Hm704Rj7QrPdny4iM +iAjwuM7i3NneZZEmIpjyv1xajied9X8bOBO0WaPQfNPO7fgodT9kV2uJSpZHHOco5zytfXvL mJjXNcAbr5ftMPjpOEedeHFBsnhr16l4OlowNN8wqbb2uc77zRWO5WbwUZAuXHj1ml1WVuTUr Xe96NbeVeqmoLL+6yzOt85jsJATgIMeBRXEPwgNXc0t4J2vXXT9bK1LTqD1jwKFH+H4VGkro1 lkvUGvWI+t5zaBJM7VTuCSS8axik0T7o/HrW8zcrFxbkh7qU4GsINkiQ4ys24wekAmuacDd+7 JbCV0PmgUf8v7cmXuF798FNIVP60Le3+JJLkJ8vGP2rhOpVKfcyVWV5uR+ge8rGnggHeJjEQR enZV/FXsqwMVgG3R7fuEu06sLj/TccJS6J5kBilumoYRlqctr3kcN4xvauF1wIZYneFEnGp6L 4d4v91Q+fIbBhmfUOLMRcoFEs7w/fhdZRwUWeBQUq823R9vQQz1hYIzgsM6iJ+yPQr6T4Tq5x WEz4Cdbl14e/upjZaBNqVjhOzmnBQmV+ZUy/BWT5L99CBRmsPmoRqjvwZGJUb2S7t3roQwz Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:37:46 -0000

Hi Daniel,

I think I know what you're saying but I want to make sure so, when you say 'mandatory colon' do you mean for all URIs or for just http?

Tim

On May 23, 2020 at 7:31 PM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 22 May 2020 at 17:29, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

The second draft of the 'drop' URI scheme is available and can be

found here <

" rel="noopener" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>. Thank

you.

This doesn't seem to resolve any of the issues people have raised; it

still omits the mandatory colon after the scheme, and puts its main

content, used for resource resolution and retrieval, in a fragment

identifier, which is intended for client-specific post-processing

after a document is retrieved.

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review

From nobody Sun May 24 05:31:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CED3A0B01 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v8Es11nTMeMx for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 05:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B18ED3A0B00 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 05:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw07.schlund.de ([10.72.72.53]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LptxZ-1j91Pe1lOJ-00ffns for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:49 +0200 Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC5F6A9.7599.23B3E5E7@dan.tobias.name>, <624184630.116213.1590182968873@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:idWu/1eiy2Blm1D73oWCua3RS0dtij2gS1HikNULOAy0IV4OseD cBB84MKD6NBgM0ORz/icc30GuF38f7KwMMocRyXks/AytuCiyAkyVX2ZMzUglFyCnQ61CAM CKul5DRNUXyY4G0USJtCVt2t2zbNpepeHI+TefrQ+qvH1pgFFn2+z6sNT8+au3fVIBEH3ef sfBO0jhgoAnVvdMuy/+Og== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:C6hfErWU+Qs=:TjSvU1/dnHaSfXo3RjZfi3 /b1WnnpPEDH3sVqEp6bWkrqMbkOcSKlgbtrUho//A9tIML4Pb8KaZwj35y6wHsosmMC7qCcDo LNQBWZxT5qMM/YNKd1CMAji8x1aIWRUzJ9g3EA46W4gVP7ZCsaNLMVq+Pne7lMniUBNrKwEQ6 SZFFLnsWEntObvN7fFAHt5E4g5tRPgayGpdHanda5xqBkikiGaAVayZN4B4slZctgM4H9MLFw gYLbjwq8TlQM4QuCVfmVp9ax78uwnx8dPMVwTUAxQlq96y3GsgbuK2CXwo9BZOVh6cb5ZBiCi k1+o/SNS2DGjIGtzU+qQMlTj24LuF4O9DgKR3lnzg2RXtfqoxEhLTGwO0SCj8/LhdG2c1ba6u FZj7Y14BKFAwj6U3RK80HjuUA/a+3TxaiTgZAjJXIo3mHIQ7/g0UwzHpCfKCFnLVHXYMz1wh4 bXgx4iBcx2JGxvceMBvdxwYTZw+6Bj8Cie2GMYcFGR/Ba3ts0SMXJ7VPaoD2tHZwagUTl0X2n FUhVOhJL16tfafW0htilchmLAkE1jOrN50jzewN8ROixp390ur3bEOXY/MMLdGbwICYqYlAWQ Xt8wWU6KaS9CapnRRTaN7AbnBxJy66bYbcp4RrT1Ufh3sde24vY3uPcThnV79R4QJggG6akKC ROGXKI4OjF3+E2aaetOsytV55eeDScUedMcKk1EkuM5YmypeYRwLS7Mv54XCpL+JF/oIiyru3 EGvuYRFnAE7YASn9sfWVBxz6DokpXwyyc/XT4cWqrQWK7jSDkSH95IoF4xxHvMGzscNE4omyw p/ohSq03fahmkZyJvNre0mCZqPbTXjXLmVvwUNUta7pPmBqZxyPIdlwujcqSs8cKy92TANx Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 12:31:55 -0000

Hi Dan,

For the browser example, it is going to leave the client as 'drop#fg234' but come back to the client as 'fg234.dropexample.com'.

Looking at the second sentence of section 2.2 of rfc3986 it give three choices for defining delimiters:

by using general syntax

by each scheme-specific syntax

by the implementation-specific syntax of a URI's derefrencing algorithm.

The 'drop' scheme uses the last one. I was thinking of a way to show this being done with http but didn't thing anyone really wanted to see that.

Tim

On May 23, 2020 at 7:31 PM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 22 May 2020 at 17:29, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

The second draft of the 'drop' URI scheme is available and can be

found here <

" rel="noopener" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>. Thank

you.

This doesn't seem to resolve any of the issues people have raised; it

still omits the mandatory colon after the scheme, and puts its main

content, used for resource resolution and retrieval, in a fragment

identifier, which is intended for client-specific post-processing

after a document is retrieved.

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review

From nobody Sun May 24 07:53:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89593A0A47 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:53:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kbpjvwQGH60L for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (dog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 063F93A0A44 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0541F480558 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-14-14.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.14]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9A5E0481026 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:53:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Sun, 24 May 2020 14:53:21 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Thoughtful-Trouble: 69d778df3ea04132_1590332001844_1098406238 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1590332001844:865731969 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1590332001844 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E61B97D71 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (c-73-245-214-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [73.245.214.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mail@dan.tobias.name) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D28B697D6C for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a47 From: "Daniel R. Tobias" To: uri-review@ietf.org Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:53:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5ECA8A5F.4144.1011C4A2@dan.tobias.name> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <811217250.273727.1590291463007@email.ionos.com> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name>, <811217250.273727.1590291463007@email.ionos.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.73.639) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddukedgkedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfffggfukfgjfhfotgfgsehtufertdfftddvnecuhfhrohhmpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeetkefhhfeuveetffdtueeghedtveejfffhgeehuedtieevveefudelledvhefgjeenucffohhmrghinhepuggrnhdrihhnfhhonecukfhppeejfedrvdeghedrvddugedrudduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopegluddtrddtrddtrddvngdpihhnvghtpeejfedrvdeghedrvddugedrudduhedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdffrghnihgvlhcutfdrucfvohgsihgrshdfuceouggrnhesthhosghirghsrdhnrghmvgeqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepuggrnhesthhosghirghsrdhnrghmvgdpnhhrtghpthhtohepuhhrihdqrhgvvhhivgifsehivghtfhdrohhrgh Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:53:25 -0000 On 23 May 2020 at 23:37, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > I think I know what you're saying but I want to make sure so, when you > say 'mandatory colon' do you mean for all URIs or for just http? As far as I'm aware, and has come up in this discussion earlier, the colon is required for all URIs, not specific to http. -- == Dan == Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ From nobody Sun May 24 07:54:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590993A0A4D for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:54:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uvqdJNFnj1By for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (dog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12B1A3A0A43 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492E8700BFA for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:54:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-14-14.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.14]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CCB50701123 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:54:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Sun, 24 May 2020 14:54:15 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|mail@dan.tobias.name X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Cold-Abortive: 6428084e7d25e6f1_1590332055075_1503620646 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1590332055075:418730023 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1590332055074 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBFA97D75 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (c-73-245-214-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [73.245.214.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mail@dan.tobias.name) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7448597D71 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a47 From: "Daniel R. Tobias" To: uri-review@ietf.org Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:54:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name>, <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.73.639) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Content-description: Mail message body X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddukedgkedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfffggfukfgjfhfotgfgsehtsfertdfftddunecuhfhrohhmpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeffeeludehtedvleehgeeikedvtedtfffgieeuvdduteetvdegkedufefhueefgeenucffohhmrghinheptghomhdrrghspdgurghnrdhinhhfohenucfkphepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgdutddrtddrtddrvdgnpdhinhgvthepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehurhhiqdhrvghvihgvfiesihgvthhfrdhorhhg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:54:17 -0000 On 24 May 2020 at 8:31, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > For the browser example, it is going to leave the client as > 'drop#fg234' but come back to the client as 'fg234.dropexample.com'.=A0 As I understand it, fragment identifiers don't leave the client, but are used when processing the returned data from the server at the client side. -- =3D=3D Dan =3D=3D Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ From nobody Sun May 24 08:53:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4273A0AE5 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Efa95infOa9V for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E35B3A0AE2 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MQy1w-1jSXJX3xAk-00UGES for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:53:05 +0200 Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 11:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name>, <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; 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Hi Dan,

Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when the "#" leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment, it is leaving as a way to separate the URI components, <scheme> and <path> or for http it would be separating <scheme> and <authority>. It is this that makes me believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is not necessarily required for all URI.

Tim

On May 24, 2020 at 10:54 AM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 24 May 2020 at 8:31, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

For the browser example, it is going to leave the client as

'drop#fg234' but come back to the client as 'fg234.dropexample.com'.

As I understand it, fragment identifiers don't leave the client, but

are used when processing the returned data from the server at the

client side.

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

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From nobody Sun May 24 09:02:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B693A0AF9 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 09:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gsix22agFZyi for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.gristmillmedia.com (dret.net [209.188.86.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8D423A0AF7 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 123.234.197.178.dynamic.wless.lssmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch ([178.197.234.123]:12279 helo=[172.20.10.7]) by postoffice.gristmillmedia.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jct4f-0006CF-V7; Sun, 24 May 2020 12:02:06 -0400 To: Timothy Mcsweeney , uri-review@ietf.org References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> From: Erik Wilde Message-ID: <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:02:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - postoffice.gristmillmedia.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dret.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Authenticated-Sender: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:02:11 -0000 hey tim. On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when the "#" > leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment, what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following it never leaves the client, by definition. > it is leaving as a > way to separate the URI components, and or for http it > would be separating and . It is this that makes me > believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is > not necessarily required for all URI. this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief look at the specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 is URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] each URI is defined like this and must have a colon. cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | http://dret.net/netdret | | http://twitter.com/dret | From nobody Sun May 24 11:26:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9143A0C7D for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:26:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2tUwCSK0doF for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDCA13A0C7B for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MA82J-1jjkvo0mtN-00BKRj; Sun, 24 May 2020 20:25:45 +0200 Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Erik Wilde , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XIwPqh+pheZ2ne74zY+VB9/o+bbVud+5t2RxebxxrhhY6IGqdE1 6deDl3Gnj3Lskh4GDyl5fhe3gGNBkw4KW9BlDJJMepyyYqdR6/CG86/d0UJtZ1KPDheIQXb n1CbPFf8qXdxLADR1biwSy1OV6BeIAATvSPWt1ief2Mmo7VSpWsfbbz0fQdteSzOc3uck2q RWbW2dKn1uioO7ge0Wv6Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:D4pFJ5L7g+k=:tTBMnfKHWix+8KJUsDj/V7 /RtALAmk3F+lttT0o1eeRrOUwOmzjxDcZRQTwnqhduaTOsz3mNnoCFc71g1g3ZrfYrw2jxttj Fz15mk2uPYtXpr5H8aP8R4hAAk+YYHLHNP5ps/Ra76KA69IP4oaBrYSKVmWh59NbvtWawOsam FAqQF+YfmW5gu6FaoNUkrihFvxyX0eYdXN6Pxyic0ruaBIhH3HT75OmW3MpcCXEaSmMI7HPwx m+hwF1t10wkO2irUd8ZkeLbqhuqhCI6NhB6dzKMoSPkLhHbRF0NpskPt8vgeOEf8F9o0fJ3HH SXqzzK0WB+5lp1sIOysBX7T4VtpCI0vEygw3yXknFqsuDm8avtCGnQmfKLuEUssyp2/4lVKqp TLxpLMAn0N1xIqG8ovRsvmMWTAYIT5xuIFyL+/nzjAQU6ipqyBOh2BUPzVySbGrj3iUvtdFRA D9twjgatrwZ6/Hc8QbC7t7E6KosWuB5F3QlZJPVOvAaxAbm1ucwgsc3tiA9vUyHByrSRrghrn I4WiTDCUczzRg7x3jD78VlsetVbWI/e3Ed/ii4A0XnaUv2inn1PovC5eFiU84doDyYgjHKFQF RFalMQcL29ppHRcQsP2UV6iNxD++avjQRMCuci32ROWnJKuLlpr0FJCHmNoBPFry8PlOtmNLa 6pRQYaHElviS7LnC32s54oYAdpvfUudn7ULh5/i2ZarvKRLh/+bfu3SvEJTagoAlyP8Lo75v3 HEv8HqBHMcBkrau+e9In2XgjR1KyaJgrchQZjr5CS0HfzQjXZsapHgnJ3SfE9p0uvrLOLBfSU fEsJyJAXf52krqipaIvlEq4kySypnUhPtbmIL6QbLl1qtw602t515Sd2RU8MtKEvIKaHDN2 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:26:31 -0000

Hi Erik,

Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section 3.

Would you agree that in "https://ietf.org" the colon is not part of the hier-part?

On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net> wrote:

hey tim.

On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when the "#"

leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment,

what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following it never

leaves the client, by definition.

it is leaving as a

way to separate the URI components, <scheme> and <path> or for http it

would be separating <scheme> and <authority>. It is this that makes me

believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is

not necessarily required for all URI.

this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief look at the

specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 is

URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

each URI is defined like this and must have a colon.

cheers,

dret.

--

erik wilde | mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net |

| http://dret.net/netdret |

| http://twitter.com/dret |

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--_000_BL0PR2101MB102738EF50D7C8AD647E10BBA3B20BL0PR2101MB1027_-- From nobody Wed May 27 16:42:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C143A0DB0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:42:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B0Y5ZftMSPCb for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 720143A0DAE for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw01.schlund.de ([10.72.72.47]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MOAS5-1jOsC41rZJ-00OZle for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:42:37 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 19:42:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1804062312.403587.1590622955990@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <745178906.42051.1590103115859@email.ionos.com> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <1630462326.97358.1589928036619@email.ionos.com> <217485042.439703.1589938351012@email.ionos.com> <745178906.42051.1590103115859@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qeQVbjxTvpN+XCqooKoo/H3nJS1s+jbYomRJhQrdLccumi9xx/f A6yO+KZyHSunisAgsiVRHAcJ4NQ8tgQyZxWjvMNy/YxtDkbiFzwOsraJpnha7YvMS/Tf52b 3V/CXCi/dfID8Az2mmYNgVEpdHvCdYa+hQKIFeWF0J17Wpi7S9p9SX9vw9ayNL47sYWC3ZE dMwOmAf8bDHJOnuLnzNpA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:J4bxOCdi1MQ=:txGEKDEns3a9PxeOcbewN9 s9RAP4PO8mcrtbAhHjO1u58s2tiuvxktg+RUiryxhovMhq35XI1SwxNJloB1/lhNBJsSFUg1I YTSHQyACgmEEZCNlIA/nrubE8zxaP9Y4t56qh4eXg6Lv5sXHHjfgS21HmOc/ZNt4xKLixTsBQ aPufzG2vScG2x+cNDCDmH5bsi6bbSvPjY4f4dac/kwhcJJzsKotVm63HaqJgu0gkcgR1dgcH4 TIQ3d/K984oI0sIbz4cp7OmihmCUPrLBJCfQ38Xtan8CJXKxQ4gUO7eAjf7SZ89iqG58TCeUm oy6WnfrwYYeidkDKERNXiuYTR7tysQopvc2zduAGQdiNqQ012O/LT8yIpB2rm2XiTEOXp7tgS 8VpfKZDi8lBYADR+qLW3iVcdWf5kYowVLt8O3C32x98DHaMt8y5fCQsxTJxTVOZ3zrsqfSLlQ djuBbD9YJ3PpI+Yt99MhGvZqvHNat3Lv/pBjKxBFgdtPWU7k1zMQ/saAgGwuehUSsXYQCrJH5 be/2F5AFJDgpq2htBgdvL/9KDwwbV0eAnkg9lcRKOYV//qPeIRdK+Qn1YQb4V8kbYk7rxzjvv 6nD46P+oXWdUkqnsdPAWMJ6tzn8xepWGfwBwVVyJ/iYOYDZXnJjfsYXh+uU+cUEebi145UuDI 9XKPgl/9uQOG8MTgsZRM4quYSNga7gv73WYxNIuaiFeqiyrA8ulpzDo/s2me5uLYGKx140Eoa RTDBYuw7DdTPXqa9AJoWhAlCXX3vhw+Qm2tG4fUR3+L3L04B5tU7c25lh/wfSYt2/r4pM574V RcbmXsx7rqNwt1m/50huy6OxSTr/nFXXCt/Z+IlyYcjbcAtejMWfbyNE90Rd/fSD3ZJ9EUW Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 23:42:41 -0000 =20 =20

Just putting this conversation up here to show that Ted brought up some = good points that I have fixed in the second draft.

On May 21, 2020 at 7:18 PM Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com> = wrote:=20

Hi Ted,

I have a question for you. In your last couple emails when you sa= id the words "permanent identifier", did you mean:

the string always matches the same object forever

-or-

the string will always be an identifier for these particular types of o= bjects

-or-

the string is disposable and there will never be another string like it= again.

Thanks,

Tim

On May 20, 2020 at 6:42 PM Ted Hardie <=20 ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote= :

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:32 PM Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com> wrote= :

>

Ted,

Thank you very much for the feedback. Would I be correct in deducing = from your reply that if the 'drop' scheme remained a locator that you would= recommend it remain a URI over a URN?

Tim

Because you can use the DDDS to get from a URN to the a retrieval

step, I'm not sure that's the critical property for me. I think for

me the difference is whether the drop-string is unique or not. As an

example, a URN with a NBN

(=20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_= Bibliography_Number) can go

through a resolver to identify a specific resource. In cases like

NBNs (or RFC numbers, for which there are also URNs), the number is

never reassigned; the issuer guarantees that the NBN will change if

the resource changes.

If you are constructing an identifier that is unique but will have

internal references which change (e.g. if the telephone number or

address associated with it change), you can still use a URN, but it

will be associated will be a meta-identifier for the collection of

changing versions. That's how vCard's CLIENTPIDMAP works, for

example. It sort-of sounds like drop-strings would be dereferenable

versions of this, via something like

CLIENTPIDMAP.well-known-domain.example. The usefulness of that gets

back to the question we discussed before,of whether these are mnemonic

or not; discovering the right drop-string to use becomes a major part

of the exercise.

In general, I think the vCard case might be a useful one for you to

spend some time with, because it may be easier to communicate what

drop-string will do if you relate it to an existing case.

regards,

Ted Hardie

>

Hi Tim,

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 3:40 PM Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com> wrot= e:

Hi Ted,

Thank you for taking the time to have a look at the draft. I had not = considered the use of more than one domain. I will be sure to clarify that = there will only be one second level domain used for http. Because I am limi= ted to four flags in the DDDS, at this time I would say my intent would be = the same as listed. You are probably right when saying that section will ne= ed a rewrite.

Your statement about the drop-string functioning as a permanent ident= ifier with the current telephone number, address, or other contact methods = being available as a retrieved resource is spot on but in my head it is a l= ocator. I'm going to give that some more thought. Generally speaking, is th= is draft something that you would personally find appealing to use?

If this intended to be a permanent identifier and you intend to use t= he DDDS, I would suggest you consider either a URN or, if you want to look = outside the IETF, at an implementation of the handle system, which is curre= ntly maintained by the DONA foundation. If you stick with a URN, the result= would be a string like this:

urn:drop:nss-specific-string

Drop is the namespace identifier (NID) in this case. The issuer assig= ned that NID is the issuer of names-specific-strings and has to maintain ce= rtain guarantees related to uniqueness, which may or may not work for you d= epending on your application model. There is, however, already a specificat= ion for how to use the DDDS to retrieve URNs (RFC 3402) as well as some exp= erience with S-NAPTR (RFC 3958), which may simplify your deployment.

Your question about whether or not I feel this would be appealing to = use is a little hard to answer without knowing more about the construction = of the resources it returns and the creation of the strings. If they are es= sentially random, the deployment model is hard to get going because the use= rs are trading a series of mnemonic strings for an opaque one. vCards (RFC = 6350), for example, can contain a UUID in URN form; this is unique, but not= memorable. Systems can use it to confirm that a vCard is a new entry in a = contacts database, but the URN UUIDs do not really replace any of the entri= es in the vCard in other contexts. If the strings are not random, then you = get markets in the names, along with risks of squatting and so on. Even for= the opaque strings there have been such markets (sales of mnemonic telepho= ne numbers, for example, where either keypad mapping or repeating numbers a= re valued as easy to remember). Those markets (for domain names, twitter ha= ndles, and so on) tend to produce a lot of work in balancing the needs of t= hose trying to maintain trademarks and those wishing to create new marks an= d identifiers.

regards,

Ted Hardie

>

Sincerely,

Tim

On May 19, 2020 at 11:45 AM Ted Hardie <=20 ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrot= e:

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the pointer to the draft. I think there are two issues her= e which are large enough that you may wish to think about the implied archi= tecture. The first is a syntactic issue: the use of "#" as the only delimit= er in the proposed URIs. As RFC 3986 describes it, the "#" delimiter is use= d for identifying fragments and is thus dependent on the MIME type of the r= etrieved object:

The fragment's format and resolution is therefore

dependent on the media type [RFC2046] of a potentially retrieved

representation, even though such a retrieval is only performed if the

URI is dereferenced.

This does not appear to match your usage. The usage you appear to be = seeking is a transposition of the string to a subdomain of a well-known dom= ain, so that a client can attempt retrieval via the three methods you enume= rate; it is not clear from the document whether there will ever be more tha= n one permitted domain here. A simpler implementation would appear to be dr= op:drop-string.well-known-domain.example.

Second, your document appears to imply that the drop string is used t= o augment existing telephone numbers and addresses, but it is not terribly = clear how it does this. One interpretation might be that the drop-string fu= nctions as a permanent identifier with the current telephone number, addres= s, or other contact methods being available as a retrieved resource. This s= ection:

Primarily functioning as a locator there are three ways to get to a

'drop' URI resource, http, srv records, and private resolution for

anything not found using the previous two methods. The first, or

default, action is when an application invokes the 'drop' URI it will

cause a lookup for matching application information starting with an = A

record [RFC1035], then on to Service records [RFC2782], and then on t= o

other available records that may offer a new rule set for resolution.

raises a problem with this approach: the records returned by SRV are = fundamentally different, in that they are onward pointers to other domains = and resolutions. If the implication is that HTTP is always used to retrieve= drop records and the appropriate server is discovered by either using an A= record, an SRV record, or private resolution, then this section needs a ma= jor re-write (to include AAAA records and to clarify the intent). It's also= not clear what long lived utility a new scheme serves here if the result i= s always=20 https://some-string.discovered-domain.example/= .

If there were a different guarantee of uniqueness than the DNS, this = would seem closer to a URN than other URI forms, or possibly an implementat= ion of the handle system (as DOIs are). There is, unfortunately, not enough= detail in the draft on the overall system to be confident of that.

regards,

Ted Hardie

>

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:21 PM Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com> wrot= e:

Hello everyone,

This is a request for a review of the 'drop' URI scheme. The draft ca= n be found here <=20 " rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>">https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-mcsweeney-drop-scheme/>. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Tim McSweeney

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-revi= ew

>

>

>

>

>

=20 From nobody Wed May 27 17:05:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912D23A0DD4 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mcsmK2PbeRF0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32E1E3A0DD0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw10.schlund.de ([10.72.72.56]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MbfKV-1jLCHS1kyD-00Iyi6 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 02:05:11 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:05:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ndcGDGK/DTq0ii+pnD49OjZd8G3arrbysUa3uGB81B0Qsg9kudJ CJwdBHt5ryUsHfohMdPadFtDtssY6wLSWtN5p0JIotyLJU1l97Jswldci3tf7IVrQPbIUOi xfxE1gCN680bEhocJjBSHs3b1HweAfTjedc2EIOLhadjD8AaqGz4z9O32u2uolX1Z/rkGJc p6b8kn5uAGWEJXP/If37A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:6D0M3gXd1EY=:v+xTbseXg/Z/Tw/8+/kcl3 5g4dmWjabw7ly2iSABe13m/VbNRT8BAiq+2UInKE9h8joIehhOTruWcrhMMBwmqTRBF2I89a2 N++qrS1iwSh/NpX0hbWquT7URXHjm34l7K5TJccq1P2FkxMMagQxMiK1cSLzTes6ixLsiABj0 5Zqrq6F+l622un/24J3A5D8J39/GkwiYi8SrbAjxlEQgx6CBglQSn1RSb0qhf7a10GpFSKqby R/iVnh5y8DLUowR36vDUB07Ma1o0PHOZM3XZDFEYE5p3QPhMqnNVfESciwBFGe5sCj+QdODKN eALzIbBFnaY1fWh050zFEwmlf54MZQ/6NhOxvcfRt8zQPErU+iSslubflFTwcmYBXpzddAymg Ev2a5kYe5Fb6sfHwfPHcxNdZObQYRQ5VjKJrV+MI+PXrTGet9+hF/FflH+MwEPMSOkrp3UBSd 7wBf4UwJ2Ju/z+ZjH7C2KmJjLlemTZG1pKjbHSf5x7BfaPXrpRfXnZ7fvtNbcNsBZGOu4lWou 5iEWjgROapHuSWgIE/fQe5BVRWEBl3m3rNw3f5omeFooMzxfLqW/8TxuiE/J5XlVJyKr81pfU sKc//9ikVx/pHZcFll3otGV6JECZibSYYFdX944zTjC4/w0F27bRHRmjor+MXkxJC5fcb1RaB A/iovbjF6JjzBYlVxXo/ipagvNIsyaeWJvACQ6rCyWLhKOw/HEHUpOOmRX+X9FCLeeJB5+IDj d+b1YHdM5EecUhmKkX+MBwUv4zHU0TxySmHrLNuT+0oC91NORA7/Hid7IkTW+Po9O0IxME6rr YM58VUESjVt9pNF03r5JhT4PkzqlCnJEvJQyQ9bXd6/vwywLHdUTE7lcrRM8ArskicZOvw9 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 00:05:14 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Dave,

If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe and valid, = would you oppose their use in URIs?

Tim

On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> wro= te:=20

Hi Tim,

Correct the colon is no= t part of the hier-part, the hier-part is what comes after the colon. = RFC 3986 says:

URI = ; =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]=

Only strings that confo= rm to the above are URIs.

So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g5= 4=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it does not conform to the above syntax, as= it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54= =E2=80=9D on the other hand would be a valid URI.

This is what folks are = saying when they say if you just change the =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D to a =E2=80= =9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal.

Dave

From: Uri-review &= lt;uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Timothy Mc= sweeney
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM
= To: Erik Wilde <erik.wilde@dret.net>; uri-review@ietf.orgSubject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

Hi Erik,

Thank you, I will have another lo= ok at my reference to section 3.

Would you agree that in "https://ietf.org" the colon is not part of the hi= er-part?

On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik= Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net= > wrote:

hey tim.

On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcs= weeney wrote:

Yes, I agree and understand tha= t the same way as you. But when the "#"

leaves the client it is not lea= ving as a fragment,

what people are telling you is t= hat "#" and anything following it never

leaves the client, by definition= .

it is leaving as a

way to separate the URI compone= nts, <scheme> and <path> or for http it

would be separating <scheme&= gt; and <authority>. It is this that makes me

believe that even if the colon = is required for http resolution, it is

not necessarily required for al= l URI.

this discussion could be more pr= oductive if you had a brief look at the

specs you're depending on. the v= ery first rule shown in

https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/rfc3986#section-3 is

URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "= ?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

each URI is defined like this an= d must have a colon.

cheers,

dret.

--

erik wilde | mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net |

| http://dret.net/netdret |

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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqTAg0fDChrU for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A47243A03F7 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw10.schlund.de ([10.72.72.56]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MeyVz-1jOW5r2VWj-00OXB1; Thu, 28 May 2020 03:06:10 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 21:06:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Dave Thaler , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:aRjjGBENI+/oRy6UZd6X3yKdysxBDFytHMg99GQhOTrwNW2x4fd mBpZUYitt6Au9M5VzdEcweZ2GwBq2dXKoCkc2WoOai3ms3iTXYP6PNwE0p8a0luv0jbcC6f RD2VNcP6TiZs7WxpT/sa+0f3+/bzISsoSmwLPsu4rEuIeKO49ffqbeRf9RnmdFDkGbHPVmr 3nbDK1tAgFbKtOS8MEvqQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:vdZ8ELfWl0M=:dXOldalKN3tsxnSNY/gba6 VwafSWo7s5DG0qb8NBnRPM8shY6Z3nRgoA234efrVr5xryh/NMrBLB71PltA50djN36sZBy8R 26t9k/3XUnvyrkW/2NQc/WX42EzWZ5C+3Wbd01rD7+OoQXLoWAP2UMZ1RTcslNFmmqNX3cQap 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Thu, 28 May 2020 01:06:14 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Dave,

By "safe" I meant like ".....

safe to be
   used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for
   delimiting data subcomponents within a URI"

Like it says in secti=
on 2.2 of RFC3986.  

Tim

On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> wro= te:=20

s/URL/URI/ in both case= s in my response J

From: Uri-review &= lt;uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dave Thale= r
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM
To:<= /strong> Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com>; uri-review@ietf.org<= br>Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

I don=E2=80=99t underst= and your question. The URL syntax is fixed by that RFC. =

I don=E2=80=99t know wh= at you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D.

If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2= =80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callowed by RFC 3986=E2=80=9D, the answer is that t= hey may only appear in a URL literally

if they have the exact = meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must be pct-encoded.

From: Uri-review &= lt;uri-review-bounces@ietf.o= rg> On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney
Sent:= Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM
To: uri-review@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

Hi Dave,

If the other six gen-delims from= the reserved set were safe and valid, would you oppose their use in URIs?<= /p>

Tim

= On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> wrote:

Hi Tim,=

=

Correct= the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part is what comes after = the colon. RFC 3986 says:

=

URI &= nbsp; =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] = [ "#" fragment ]

=

Only st= rings that conform to the above are URIs.

So =E2= =80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it does not conform to the= above syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

=

=E2=80= =9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand would be a valid URI.
=

This is= what folks are saying when they say if you just change the =E2=80=9C#=E2= =80=9D to a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal.

=

Dave

=

From:<= /strong> Uri-review <uri-revie= w-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney
Sent: Sunday, = May 24, 2020 11:26 AM
To: Erik Wilde <erik.wilde@dret.net>; uri-review@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

Hi Erik,

Thank you, I will= have another look at my reference to section 3.

Would you agree t= hat in "https://ietf.org" the colon is not part of the hi= er-part?

On May 24, 2020 = at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde < erik.wi= lde@dret.net> wrote:

hey tim.

On 2020-05-24 17= :53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Yes, I agree an= d understand that the same way as you. But when the "#"

leaves the clie= nt it is not leaving as a fragment,

what people are = telling you is that "#" and anything following it never

leaves the clien= t, by definition..

it is leaving a= s a

way to separate= the URI components, <scheme> and <path> or for http it

would be separa= ting <scheme> and <authority>. It is this that makes me

believe that ev= en if the colon is required for http resolution, it is

not necessarily= required for all URI.

this discussion = could be more productive if you had a brief look at the

specs you're dep= ending on. the very first rule shown in

https://t= ools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 is

URI =3D scheme "= :" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

each URI is defi= ned like this and must have a colon.

cheers,

dret.

--

erik wilde | mai= lto: erik.wilde@dret.net |

| http://dret.net/netdret |

| http://twitter.com/dret |

=20 From nobody Fri May 29 03:02:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5316D3A0D97 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:02:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSSHne0bKrZF for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 779123A0CA8 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.mail.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.207]) by relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jebpr-00009t-f5; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:01:55 +0100 Received: from gklyne38.plus.com ([81.174.129.24] helo=spare-94.atuin.ninebynine.org) by smtp5.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jebpn-00085k-IC; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:01:51 +0100 To: Timothy Mcsweeney , uri-review@ietf.org References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> From: Graham Klyne Message-ID: <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:01:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 10:02:00 -0000 Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on closer study, I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in the sense that they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that when used as delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is affected by URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986). But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes in URI structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to interfere with such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI path would interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment. Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to delimit the scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this list to use ":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary. As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-specific delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one from the "sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generic URI syntax and interpretation. #g -- On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > Hi Dave, > > By "safe" I meant like "..... > > safe to be > used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for > delimiting data subcomponents within a URI" > > Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986. > > Tim > >> On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler wrote: >> >> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J >> >> *From:*Uri-review *On Behalf Of *Dave Thaler >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM >> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney ; uri-review@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> I don’t understand your question.   The URL syntax is fixed by that RFC. >> >> I don’t know what you mean by “safe” or “valid”. >> >> If by “valid” you mean “allowed by RFC 3986”, the answer is that they may only >> appear in a URL literally >> >> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must be pct-encoded. >> >> *From:*Uri-review > > *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM >> *To:* uri-review@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> >> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe and valid, would >> you oppose their use in URIs? >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler > > wrote: >> >> Hi Tim, >> >> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part is what >> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says: >> >> URI         = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] >> >> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs. >> >> So “drop#sd54g54” is not a URI because it does not conform to the above >> syntax, as it has no “:” >> >> “drop:sd54g54” on the other hand would be a valid URI. >> >> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just change the “#” to >> a “:” in your draft then it becomes legal. >> >> Dave >> >> *From:*Uri-review > > *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM >> *To:* Erik Wilde >; >> uri-review@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> Hi Erik, >> >> >> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section 3. >> >> Would you agree that in "https://ietf.org >> " >> the colon is not part of the hier-part? >> >> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> hey tim. >> >> >> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: >> >> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when >> the "#" >> >> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment, >> >> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following it never >> >> leaves the client, by definition.. >> >> >> it is leaving as a >> >> way to separate the URI components, and or for http it >> >> would be separating and . It is this that >> makes me >> >> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is >> >> not necessarily required for all URI. >> >> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief look at the >> >> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 >> >> is >> >> >> URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] >> >> >> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon. >> >> >> cheers, >> >> >> dret. >> >> >> -- >> >> erik wilde | mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net | >> >> | http://dret.net/netdret >> >> | >> >> | http://twitter.com/dret >> >> | >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Uri-review mailing list > Uri-review@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review > From nobody Fri May 29 09:46:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1DA3A0DB0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 09:46:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST=0.1, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-oWbfe0GBgl for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 09:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2A0A3A0C49 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 09:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw05.schlund.de ([10.72.72.51]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MFN9m-1jk9dl1BXI-00EPig; Fri, 29 May 2020 18:45:37 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 12:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Graham Klyne , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:j3ZaB5rfnjwCu0Dsw1fJ+am7PdLwDF3bDzAz1DSCzXUe5BRfo6x GmHaEqIgqP5nivQgQDE6EWqFnFXXsnlB6HEOOuktKZrNDcYVPkNi6DG2EOjaz/J42G/5tbg EN5wDxwqBAE5p5u46Yqg3cliNW9t5F4isktj8pHXGj3wHohgSFclhbMYE09rYmKLqZ7rhP4 p4poo+9j/CS2g21zi6b1A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:HstXAVOXYZg=:oW+PeKnog6n0Lon4LXJ02r A0PF5Sur3UkDyFKRSRmycluioRiUd72FGW8ZqBk9nhORsmfIpWfMUDsS6zQG3RADHx3+cvYX2 +19Vtrc5ft1yJNdZoXyGpjElNmmYQAcyZIAbB28TrWAoSmFNuNntNbWOpasWSe7WGnQPiyEPv 3v3fXNhFRDCOMG1sqoie0dzTw619noTSkIAvvoeRW4Ege/+s0Vp/m6+gauXg2iZkYoAOPoUpH 5+Xi2kul8R13CvrQnwoPYz0CwFDYUeeClHh5vaRlat605iJKKmiAvytOSpTbNUk+CaaZkdWgM 3ilYhkuC66M01Fd0aEDJqeJh/LUzNjHshQQSYst0vdxl2x7M9GYo1zzKSxx4cP4r2rDMyACUH mh7gsGRBc3oeseY66yM1uZcb/oKWdyK/lc+BsY7nEp9ihnJMvI9ovYGuIvSQlasYBttIbfp3Y UzIMIE+WZmqYk5T0rwdZyqFHvhVxSBnK/RpDqsoC+F7+IY2OlspOcVbiLQKCtMDDT2T3oOxAa I21WLxZ+8zgDNlR2+cb1Ub3ULJrql4Tgot9CH3y4p8iFkUErSltlMsEHwbfGY7ArJw++xuhAr Gn/hT5Y5JmmCQ01f7wJDgP6nJ/fjMLsQztOiAWMZwBqUhhJg4GEdtOn7Tjj5a8KAQNUZ9tAnd SdctzkSP099eOv9UrV3nY0IT8RCxdqCE/csp4s9UYq+YvHpdZXkJ8eucHk/2U1RrRa4s4JJ6A mStebRpF2RafmrM7DVy1l6d8u0dtekdSmYXh6WGDE+bOEr475Jttf0sJUvz+1BU3KnaO6BOkZ H+BbfxDxP/TzF3K7Vj5by6XkgXT7qeLDnBdaR716Tw9AX2Nir979SrF4+odmDPyPW3DYxXyOC x+vTRsboerFrUUKGrlXA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:46:17 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Graham,

I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite the= contrary.
I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to exp= ress my deductions.

This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head:

If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI, wh= at's leftover?
The colon.
And what governs the colon?
The dereferencing algorithm.
Does http use a colon in its dereferencing?
It does.
What about a URN?
It does.
FTP and Mailto?
Yup the same.
So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them sam= e output?
Yes.
All of them?
Yes.
Can you prove it?
Yes.
Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them?
Because they are interchangeable.
Interchangeable everywhere?
No, just within the scope of their placement. That's why URN= s can use a bunch of colons and not interfere with the first colon after th= e URN scheme name.
But it says the colon is required doesn't it?
I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that.
But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see tha= t right?
Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" and the colo= n is not a component.
Wait, what does generic mean?
Not specific.
So the generic syntax is not specific?
That's right.
So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something that is= not specific?
Yup, says it right there in the abstract.

From here my mental conversation took a left turn. But I wan= ted to put this out here so that the members of this list didn't think my i= ntent was for purely self interest reasons but that we can all use what's h= ere.

Tim

On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne <=20 gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:

Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on close= r study,

I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in the sense = that

they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that when us= ed as

delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is affec= ted by

URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986).

But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes in = URI

structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to inter= fere with

such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI path would

interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment.

Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to delimit = the

scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this lis= t to use

":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary.

As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-specific

delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one from = the

"sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generic URI syn= tax and

interpretation.

#g

--

On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Hi Dave,

By "safe" I meant like ".....

safe to be

used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for

delimiting data subcomponents within a URI"

Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986.

Tim

On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com>= ; wrote:

>> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org> *On Behalf Of *Dave Thaler

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM

>> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com>;=20 uri-review@ietf.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t understand your question.   The URL = syntax is fixed by that RFC.

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t know what you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D o= r =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D.

>>

>> If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callowed by RFC= 3986=E2=80=9D, the answer is that they may only

>> appear in a URL literally

>>

>> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must= be pct-encoded.

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM

>> *To:*=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to:=20 uri-review@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Dave,

>>

>>

>> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe an= d valid, would

>> you oppose their use in URIs?

>>

>>

>> Tim

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com

>> <mailto:=20 dthaler@microsoft.com>&= gt; wrote:

>>

>> Hi Tim,

>>

>> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part = is what

>> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says:

>>

>> URI         =3D scheme= ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

>>

>> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs.

>>

>> So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it does= not conform to the above

>> syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

>>

>> =E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand would be a va= lid URI.

>>

>> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just change= the =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D to

>> a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal.

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM

>> *To:* Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net>>;

>>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to:=20 uri-review@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Erik,

>>

>>

>> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section= 3.

>>

>> Would you agree that in "=20 https:/= /ietf.org

>> <=20 "" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">https://na= m06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2F&d= ata=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%= 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339204192&sdata= =3DUJ7TQnKfGZMnWkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&reserved=3D0>"

>> the colon is not part of the hier-part?

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net

>> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net>> = wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>> hey tim.

>>

>>

>> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

>>

>> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. &n= bsp;But when

>> the "#"

>>

>> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment,

>>

>> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following= it never

>>

>> leaves the client, by definition..

>>

>>

>> it is leaving as a

>>

>> way to separate the URI components, <scheme> and <pat= h> or for http it

>>

>> would be separating <scheme> and <authority>. = ; It is this that

>> makes me

>>

>> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution= , it is

>>

>> not necessarily required for all URI.

>>

>> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief lo= ok at the

>>

>> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in

>>

>>=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3

>> <=20 https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3= A%2F%2Ftools.ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdt= haler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af= 91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=3DupZbOkALJ8SuEk%2F= pLLqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqpMAyITzc8%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> is

>>

>>

>> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

>>

>>

>> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon.

>>

>>

>> cheers,

>>

>>

>> dret.

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> erik wilde | mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net> |

>>

>> |=20 = http://dret.net/netdret

>> <=20 https://nam06.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&d= ata=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%= 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata= =3Dhq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=3D0>= ;

>> |

>>

>> |=20 = http://twitter.com/dret

>> <=20 https://nam06.safe= links.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&dat= a=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C= 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339224105&sdata=3D9= V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> |

>>

>>

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review<= /a>

=20 From nobody Fri May 29 11:23:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2ACC3A0F29 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:23:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XpxUN9AqwgX8 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x343.google.com (mail-ot1-x343.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::343]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEDAC3A0F30 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x343.google.com with SMTP id z3so2652903otp.9 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:23:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TUczH/I300sAbBEm2cqhJJLhv2AlaEq/Fcyr3/ak7Bg=; b=oiVZOfdvCSxLeWkuS5Fc+M/yRMrjTriCaqOmsGn91ZC+1VEtBlxwYxRL2HqX8vnL0R 3OTXs8oPnoKCwKtH95ng3dqYoaNSMNQSmn60SAa+ii1UFao09Vw4RIKnI8piOC7040Uh 7N/g3jzZAHJdbjhj5lQkGqbkB0xH9nvRHhXnAs9wsJJt0eBb+AxbtdtXEYteyi8uoaS5 FKLNPO6/bsg9PKJZHWW2zIOHizS/0Vft2rHlTO8DBC6eH2tYQ/qjKhmecG2NtU42vnH3 rj75WNOr5R7jCrKD7cBF44JQ1iYzGsQScJDHeglgB47jJHJ4xCkuwg4Pt9R1qzAmTtCF AvBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TUczH/I300sAbBEm2cqhJJLhv2AlaEq/Fcyr3/ak7Bg=; b=sKcYvs9/66enW8rGQP/jgWt3hfeTOBg+UwJ7UunIk4IvD2SGcgOdYfChZOmW1nxE1A gq5hRBHIDMGCAzPGP4kVSKORo/ajNKG5bwffJNMC3lGmi74qnMer0A5ws1kL4T4UNK7Y EWwIgxK7Q/3LVWlOLQItuNw9DXFT8iatxPoppuwM2rz9FKULWW5mWWRS9NgTve7bTu4T UyYbarR/FaZzHzq9j0kaZVceqcm6uLzIEPefqoooMv3EeO6ViTkiGcaBp2WJAYnIaDic 8fg7dJPtKRrwDyIExxknS+S//q+e5d3sYsF4yTU4gwUWStKui2jalWJvS7CrXnbR5hFv Pb+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530kmnd4rmokUYkSrtJtX7P/xlPDA7ZHqB9JEv/jkKOa68/xKi4N cBrVlg8TRgCgCtfNvMid1P0vDmZL5F0CMgTRhWM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwwyIFZTBUu6d3cEJ/DfwUf720eX0iICXeJX7gaCIMhp9OVFHsac4vDLpveXRXrousNI8B0pktsu6qScdTBxxY= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5c09:: with SMTP id o9mr7276483otk.165.1590776580132; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:23:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> From: Ted Hardie Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:22:33 -0700 Message-ID: To: Timothy Mcsweeney Cc: Graham Klyne , uri-review@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f9d35805a6cd8858" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 18:23:04 -0000 --000000000000f9d35805a6cd8858 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Let me suggest a slightly different formulation, which is not based on the colon itself, but on the scheme. The scheme indicates which type of URI a particular example is and thus governs a bunch of the behavior you describe below (whether it is used to dereference resources and, if so, what protocol(s) are used, if there are specific parameters and, if so, whether any are mandatory, and so on). For a URI parser, the method used to identify the scheme within any example is basically: "it's the bit to the left of the colon". If you don't have that specific marker, then a standard URI parser won't find a scheme and thus won't know what behavior to match to the example. A common early metaphor for this was to identify the network retrieval protocols as different parts of the plumbing of the Web, with the scheme names as the labels on the taps. That plumbing metaphor doesn't really work with abstract identifiers and is stretched by schemes like HTTPS which might have more than one set of underlying protocols. But the labeling still does--you can think of the schemes and the labels that tell the API which branch of behavior to invoke. The colon is the "end of label" marker, and that's why folks are insisting on it here; without it, you can't use the URI API to select a branch. best regards, Ted On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:46 AM Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > Hi Graham, > > I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite the > contrary. > I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to express my > deductions. > > This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head: > > > If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI, what's > leftover? > The colon. > And what governs the colon? > The dereferencing algorithm. > Does http use a colon in its dereferencing? > It does. > What about a URN? > It does. > FTP and Mailto? > Yup the same. > So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them same > output? > Yes. > All of them? > Yes. > Can you prove it? > Yes. > Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them? > Because they are interchangeable. > Interchangeable everywhere? > No, just within the scope of their placement. That's why URNs can use a > bunch of colons and not interfere with the first colon after the URN sche= me > name. > But it says the colon is required doesn't it? > I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that. > But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see that right= ? > Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" and the colon is no= t > a component. > Wait, what does generic mean? > Not specific. > So the generic syntax is not specific? > That's right. > So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something that is not > specific? > Yup, says it right there in the abstract. > > From here my mental conversation took a left turn. But I wanted to put > this out here so that the members of this list didn't think my intent was > for purely self interest reasons but that we can all use what's here. > > Tim > > On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne < gk@ninebynine.org> wrote: > > > Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on closer > study, > I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in the sense > that > they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that when used > as > delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is affecte= d > by > URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986). > > But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes in UR= I > structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to > interfere with > such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI path would > interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment. > > Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to delimit th= e > scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this list > to use > ":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary. > > As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-specific > delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one from th= e > "sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generic URI synta= x > and > interpretation. > > #g > -- > > > On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > By "safe" I meant like "..... > > safe to be > used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for > delimiting data subcomponents within a URI" > > Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986. > > Tim > > On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler < dthaler@microsoft.com> wrote: > > >> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J > >> > >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Dave > Thaler > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM > >> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney < tim@dropnumber.com>; uri-review@ietf.org > >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review > >> > >> > >> I don=E2=80=99t understand your question. The URL syntax is fixed by= that > RFC. > >> > >> I don=E2=80=99t know what you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D or =E2=80= =9Cvalid=E2=80=9D. > >> > >> If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callowed by RFC 3986=E2= =80=9D, the answer is that they > may only > >> appear in a URL literally > >> > >> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must be > pct-encoded. > >> > >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org > >> > *On Behalf Of *Timothy > Mcsweeney > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM > >> *To:* uri-review@ietf.org > >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review > >> > >> > >> Hi Dave, > >> > >> > >> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe and valid, > would > >> you oppose their use in URIs? > >> > >> > >> Tim > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler < dthaler@microsoft.com > >> > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Tim, > >> > >> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part is what > >> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says: > >> > >> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] > >> > >> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs. > >> > >> So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it does not con= form to the above > >> syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D > >> > >> =E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand would be a valid URI. > >> > >> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just change the =E2= =80=9C#=E2=80=9D > to > >> a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal. > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org > >> > *On Behalf Of *Timothy > Mcsweeney > >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM > >> *To:* Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net >; > >> uri-review@ietf.org > >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review > >> > >> > >> Hi Erik, > >> > >> > >> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section 3. > >> > >> Would you agree that in " https://ietf.org > >> < "" rel=3D"noopener" > target=3D"_blank">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dh= ttps%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f= 8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6372= 62236339204192&sdata=3DUJ7TQnKfGZMnWkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&res= erved=3D0>" > >> the colon is not part of the hier-part? > >> > >> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> hey tim. > >> > >> > >> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > >> > >> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when > >> the "#" > >> > >> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment, > >> > >> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following it neve= r > >> > >> leaves the client, by definition.. > >> > >> > >> it is leaving as a > >> > >> way to separate the URI components, and or for http it > >> > >> would be separating and . It is this that > >> makes me > >> > >> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is > >> > >> not necessarily required for all URI. > >> > >> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief look at th= e > >> > >> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in > >> > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 > >> < > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools= .ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsof= t.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47= %7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=3DupZbOkALJ8SuEk%2FpLLqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqp= MAyITzc8%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > > >> is > >> > >> > >> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] > >> > >> > >> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon. > >> > >> > >> cheers, > >> > >> > >> dret. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> erik wilde | mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net > | > >> > >> | http://dret.net/netdret > >> < > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.n= et%2Fnetdret&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98= 308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6372622363392141= 50&sdata=3Dhq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=3D0 > = > > > >> | > >> > >> | http://twitter.com/dret > >> < > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitte= r.com%2Fdret&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98= 308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6372622363392241= 05&sdata=3D9V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > > >> | > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Uri-review mailing list > Uri-review@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review > > _______________________________________________ > Uri-review mailing list > Uri-review@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review > --000000000000f9d35805a6cd8858 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tim,

Thanks for sharing y= our thoughts on this.=C2=A0 Let me suggest a slightly different formulation= , which is not based on the colon itself, but on the scheme.=C2=A0

The scheme indicates which type of URI a particular= =C2=A0 example is and thus governs a bunch of the behavior you describe bel= ow (whether it is used to dereference resources and, if so, what protocol(s= ) are used, if there are specific parameters and, if so, whether any are ma= ndatory, and so on).=C2=A0 For a URI parser, the method used to identify th= e scheme within any example is basically: "it's the bit to the lef= t of the colon".=C2=A0 If you don't have that specific marker, the= n a standard URI parser won't find a scheme and thus won't know wha= t behavior to match to the example.=C2=A0

A c= ommon early metaphor for this was to identify the network retrieval protoco= ls as different parts of the plumbing of the Web, with the scheme names as = the labels on the taps.=C2=A0 That plumbing metaphor doesn't really wor= k with abstract identifiers and is stretched by schemes like HTTPS which mi= ght have more than one set of underlying protocols.=C2=A0 But the labeling = still does--you can think of the schemes and the labels that tell the API w= hich branch of behavior to invoke.=C2=A0 The colon is the "end of labe= l" marker, and that's why folks are insisting on it here; without = it, you can't use the URI API to select a branch.

best regards,

Ted

=

= On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:46 AM Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Hi Graham,

I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite the= contrary.=C2=A0=C2=A0
I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to exp= ress my deductions.=C2=A0

This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head:

If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI, wh= at's leftover?=C2=A0
The colon.=C2=A0
And what governs the colon?=C2=A0
The dereferencing algorithm.=C2=A0
Does http use a colon in its dereferencing?=C2=A0
It does.=C2=A0
What about a URN?=C2=A0
It does.=C2=A0
FTP and Mailto?=C2=A0
Yup the same.=C2=A0
So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them sam= e output?
Yes.
All of them?=C2=A0
Yes.
Can you prove it?
Yes.=C2=A0=C2=A0
Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them?
Because they are interchangeable.
Interchangeable everywhere?
No, just within the scope of their placement.=C2=A0 That's why= URNs can use a bunch of colons and not interfere with the first colon afte= r the URN scheme name.
But it says the colon is required doesn't it?
I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that.
But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see tha= t right?
Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" an= d the colon is not a component.=C2=A0
Wait, what does generic mean?
Not specific.=C2=A0
So the generic syntax is not specific?
That's right.
So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something that is= not specific?
Yup, says it right there in the abstract.

From here my mental conversation took a left turn.=C2=A0 But I wan= ted to put this out here so that the members of this list didn't think = my intent was for purely self interest reasons but that we can all use what= 's here.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Tim

On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne <=20 gk@ninebynine.or= g> wrote:

Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on c= loser study,

I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe"= in the sense that

they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that when us= ed as

delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is affec= ted by

URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986).

But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes in = URI

structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to inter= fere with

such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI = path would

interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment.

Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used t= o delimit the

scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this lis= t to use

":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary.

As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-specific

delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one f= rom the

"sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with gener= ic URI syntax and

interpretation.

#g

--

On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Hi Dave,

By "safe" I meant like ".....

safe to be

used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for

delimiting data subcomponents within a URI"

Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986.

Tim

On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@mi= crosoft.com> wrote:

>> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-re= view-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Dave Thaler

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM

>> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.= com>;=20 uri-review@iet= f.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t understand your question.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The URL = syntax is fixed by that RFC.

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t know what you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D o= r =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D.

>>

>> If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callowed by RFC= 3986=E2=80=9D, the answer is that they may only

>> appear in a URL literally

>>

>> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must= be pct-encoded.

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-re= view-bounces@ietf.org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-re= view-bounces@ietf.org>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM

>> *To:*=20 uri-review@iet= f.org <mailto:=20 uri-review@iet= f.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Dave,

>>

>>

>> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe an= d valid, would

>> you oppose their use in URIs?

>>

>>

>> Tim

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@micr= osoft.com

>> <mailto:=20 dthaler@micr= osoft.com>> wrote:

>>

>> Hi Tim,

>>

>> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part = is what

>> comes after the colon.=C2=A0 RFC 3986 says:

>>

>> URI=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D scheme= ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

>>

>> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs.

>>

>> So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it does= not conform to the above

>> syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

>>

>> =E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand would be a va= lid URI.

>>

>> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just change= the =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D to

>> a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal.

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-re= view-bounces@ietf.org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-re= view-bounces@ietf.org>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM

>> *To:* Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net>>;

>>=20 uri-review@iet= f.org <mailto:=20 uri-review@iet= f.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Erik,

>>

>>

>> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section= 3.

>>

>> Would you agree that in "=20 https:/= /ietf.org

>> <=20 "" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank"&= gt;https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fietf= .org%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb983= 08d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63726223633920419= 2&sdata=3DUJ7TQnKfGZMnWkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&reserved= =3D0>"

>> the colon is not part of the hier-part?

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net

>> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net>> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>> hey tim.

>>

>>

>> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

>>

>> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0But when

>> the "#"

>>

>> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment,

>>

>> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything= following it never

>>

>> leaves the client, by definition..

>>

>>

>> it is leaving as a

>>

>> way to separate the URI components, <scheme> and <pat= h> or for http it

>>

>> would be separating <scheme> and <authority>.=C2= =A0 It is this that

>> makes me

>>

>> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution= , it is

>>

>> not necessarily required for all URI.

>>

>> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief lo= ok at the

>>

>> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in

>>

>>=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3

>> <=20 https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%= 2F%2Ftools.ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdtha= ler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91= ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=3DupZbOkALJ8SuEk%2FpL= LqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqpMAyITzc8%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> is

>>

>>

>> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ]= [ "#" fragment ]

>>

>>

>> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon.

>>

>>

>> cheers,

>>

>>

>> dret.

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> erik wilde | mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dre= t.net> |

>>

>> |=20 = http://dret.net/netdret

>> <=20 https://nam06.s= afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&= data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4= %7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata= =3Dhq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=3D0>= ;

>> |

>>

>> |=20 = http://twitter.com/dret

>> <=20 https://nam06.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&da= ta=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7= C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339224105&sdata=3D= 9V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> |

>>

>>

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ie= tf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review<= /a>

=20
_______________________________________________
Uri-review mailing list
Uri-review@ietf.or= g
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review=

--000000000000f9d35805a6cd8858-- From nobody Fri May 29 11:54:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 252AB3A0ABA for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qpClAt29UM7Y for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AB7C3A00C1 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 11:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw05.schlund.de ([10.72.72.51]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LxQZI-1ivAhZ2Zti-016uXh for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 20:54:47 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 14:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1729337515.289325.1590778487527@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:C4HUh3uyyFKglaPySv29rQnAGz5qsv0Iuul4IOXpHGO8ptQGFWv kqrW/p4hyweIjawnTlZG10/Ze0Ow2rC6r42hl11d/RBTIvR82CG6BHU/xdeHadCjM5O7Q+R 0DY5sVuZiOTX4tM/+EjfJpWyoBcWW09nhgUc2DhD7meg4Gg5etsB3c+/0p4YZWLZ667ladP 4MYpyI2XMlhiPO3vR28mg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:5YDEwggRQSU=:f97BHSFr7BabCJvV+8lM3a jrR2q17cYkv0inLny7bzH82EguMec7zgLE8kAr0VgGicEkqCe7bC8EyoOWcwW7rY/zzytVozS +/uM7RO2Ww4bZ73nqJxRWK2iyh47HLwPA2wwKEYf9u877hYoFD7ll+agW5tfZCtp/Jrq54oiD KKD4VXzicEjOTBQnU2Fojz5Vo5CJm9nV+IIBPWdMAol9Crq35KD9gHm5HNVOTtElEZKdP5OXm +35viaa8XVvClaFflyyTznOD26JXfm3ydc2klfmDtvgK/m/EOqQsIlSjJAM8eVkD1ftMcBtk5 ZHrKnfCKJTngtOOSBemglhTCoYrBbQsmNo+WmYWCpER4n0uIuPmCjue7J6wkMlNMc9nG84/hY Ui7h6T0xuQjXJhf91ke9zgWYTHAs8r1zymVcO++pT1P98woQHHm1K7J3I14uWL+lSdsBBhFGd jfvthjS4PNYRlLUGFp43ccckhz4jJyfduEXPyXoapDzpsiGkLUZ8jZWcxxdht3LXmKVTUWs0O yQ4A64diBWr0NE51dw4PmaVIuf9+eLF3X27/J7MxawgiUKxVQnr8l2W87vES9l6VUIYgyblsd rUiB4IBNgeaad+EZlRvRyjeV6B8u0LQPzwi1Yd8XdaShA9bnG0V+jzQdZeBTWUNqfEX+niPwA Pt/3uq2KKtiIbk+Aq5PnmKDT35+zXaIu9LBXG2SxBZVZJGYR8kaqfpCw6zieTnaBN5+SEGFw9 wZqJ1EiA16nKpAn8ywXBbGi5wxZLDrJGNUKBvKdxP5ZkBimU992MdzjDUqnZibPjYyPiSS3Hh pPP2ivinAhnxuUAnA6qIvZYnqRa7dR3OdPGnfhJuJM8J+CUA1rmVmEo8En3pusg11oM4j2Y Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 18:54:50 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Ted,

>For a URI parser, the method used to identify the scheme within any= example is basically: "it's the bit to the left of the colon".

Is it basically this, or exactly this?

> The colon is the "end of label" marker, and that's why folks are i= nsisting on it here; without it, you can't use the URI API to select a bran= ch

Is the colon the only "end of label" marker?

Tim

On May 29, 2020 at 2:22 PM Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:= =20

Hi Tim,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Let me suggest a sligh= tly different formulation, which is not based on the colon itself, but on t= he scheme. =20

The scheme indicates which type of URI a particular example is a= nd thus governs a bunch of the behavior you describe below (whether it is u= sed to dereference resources and, if so, what protocol(s) are used, if ther= e are specific parameters and, if so, whether any are mandatory, and so on)= . For a URI parser, the method used to identify the scheme within any= example is basically: "it's the bit to the left of the colon". If yo= u don't have that specific marker, then a standard URI parser won't find a = scheme and thus won't know what behavior to match to the example. =20

A common early metaphor for this was to identify the network retrieval= protocols as different parts of the plumbing of the Web, with the scheme n= ames as the labels on the taps. That plumbing metaphor doesn't really= work with abstract identifiers and is stretched by schemes like HTTPS whic= h might have more than one set of underlying protocols. But the label= ing still does--you can think of the schemes and the labels that tell the A= PI which branch of behavior to invoke. The colon is the "end of label= " marker, and that's why folks are insisting on it here; without it, you ca= n't use the URI API to select a branch.=20

best regards,

Ted=20

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:46 AM Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com> wrote= :=20

Hi Graham,

I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite= the contrary.  =20
I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to= express my deductions.

This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head:

If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI= , what's leftover? =20
The colon. =20
And what governs the colon? =20
The dereferencing algorithm. =20
Does http use a colon in its dereferencing? =20
It does. =20
What about a URN? =20
It does. =20
FTP and Mailto? =20
Yup the same. =20
So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them= same output?=20
Yes.=20
All of them? =20
Yes.=20
Can you prove it?=20
Yes.  =20
Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them?=20
Because they are interchangeable.=20
Interchangeable everywhere?=20
No, just within the scope of their placement. That's why= URNs can use a bunch of colons and not interfere with the first colon afte= r the URN scheme name.=20
But it says the colon is required doesn't it?=20
I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that.=20
But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see= that right?=20
Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" and the = colon is not a component. =20
Wait, what does generic mean?=20
Not specific. =20
So the generic syntax is not specific?=20
That's right.=20
So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something tha= t is not specific?=20
Yup, says it right there in the abstract.

From here my mental conversation took a left turn. But I= wanted to put this out here so that the members of this list didn't think = my intent was for purely self interest reasons but that we can all use what= 's here.

Tim

On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne <=20 gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:

Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on c= loser study,

I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in the se= nse that

they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that whe= n used as

delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is a= ffected by

URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986).

But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes= in URI

structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to i= nterfere with

such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI path w= ould

interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment.

Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to deli= mit the

scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this= list to use

":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary.

As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-spec= ific

delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one f= rom the

"sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generic URI= syntax and

interpretation.

#g

--

On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Hi Dave,

By "safe" I meant like ".....

safe to be

used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for

delimiting data subcomponents within a URI"

Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986.

Tim

On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com> wrote:

>> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Dave Thal= er

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM

>> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com>;=20 uri-review@ietf.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t understand your question.   The = URL syntax is fixed by that RFC.

>>

>> I don=E2=80=99t know what you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80= =9D or =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D.

>>

>> If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callowed by= RFC 3986=E2=80=9D, the answer is that they may only

>> appear in a URL literally

>>

>> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they = must be pct-encoded.

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.org>> *On Behalf Of *Timot= hy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM

>> *To:*=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mailto:=20 uri-review@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Dave,

>>

>>

>> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were saf= e and valid, would

>> you oppose their use in URIs?

>>

>>

>> Tim

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com

>> <mailto:=20 dthaler@microsoft.com>> wrote:

>>

>> Hi Tim,

>>

>> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-p= art is what

>> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says:

>>

>> URI         =3D sc= heme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

>>

>> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs.

>>

>> So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI because it = does not conform to the above

>> syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

>>

>> =E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand would be = a valid URI.

>>

>> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just ch= ange the =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D to

>> a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes legal.

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.org

>> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.org>> *On Behalf Of *Timot= hy Mcsweeney

>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM

>> *To:* Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net>>;

>>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mailto:=20 uri-review@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>>

>>

>> Hi Erik,

>>

>>

>> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to sec= tion 3.

>>

>> Would you agree that in "=20 htt= ps://ietf.org

>> <=20 "" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">https://nam06.safelinks= .protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2F&data=3D02%7C01= %7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f= 141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339204192&sdata=3DUJ7TQnKfGZMn= WkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&reserved=3D0>"

>> the colon is not part of the hier-part?

>>

>> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net

>> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net>> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>> hey tim.

>>

>>

>> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

>>

>> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. = ; But when

>> the "#"

>>

>> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment,

>>

>> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything follo= wing it never

>>

>> leaves the client, by definition..

>>

>>

>> it is leaving as a

>>

>> way to separate the URI components, <scheme> and <= ;path> or for http it

>>

>> would be separating <scheme> and <authority>.&= nbsp; It is this that

>> makes me

>>

>> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolu= tion, it is

>>

>> not necessarily required for all URI.

>>

>> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brie= f look at the

>>

>> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in

>>

>>=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3

>> <=20 https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=3D02%7C01%7C= dthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141= af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=3DupZbOkALJ8SuEk%= 2FpLLqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqpMAyITzc8%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> is

>>

>>

>> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment = ]

>>

>>

>> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon.

>>

>>

>> cheers,

>>

>>

>> dret.

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> erik wilde | mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net> |

>>

>> |=20 http://dret.net/netdret

>> <=20 https://nam= 06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&= amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0= a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sd= ata=3Dhq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=3D0= >

>> |

>>

>> |=20 http://twitter.com/dret

>> <=20 https://nam06= .safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&am= p;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8= f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339224105&sdat= a=3D9V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=3D0>

>> |

>>

>>

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-rev= iew

_______________________________________________=20
Uri-review mailing list=20
Uri-review@ietf.org=20
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=20 From nobody Sat May 30 02:24:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3063A07D1 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 02:24:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Yv7dHnheGuW for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 02:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1391C3A07CE for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 02:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.206]) by relay12.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jexiu-00084O-e7; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:24:12 +0100 Received: from gklyne38.plus.com ([81.174.129.24] helo=spare-94.atuin.ninebynine.org) by smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jexiu-0003ty-Jn; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:24:12 +0100 To: Timothy Mcsweeney , uri-review@ietf.org References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> From: Graham Klyne Message-ID: <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 10:24:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 09:24:17 -0000 Hi Tim, A short answer here is that you need the colon after the scheme name because that's what the URI specification, which represents a community consensus, says. A pragmatic response is that many contexts allow either a URI or a relative reference to be used (e.g. HTML ). So it's important for a processor to be able to distinguish between these cases. The colon after the sceme name is what makes that possible (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.1). (BTW, I wasn't suggesting you were treating anything as arbitrary. But in practice, some choices *are* arbitrary, and for interoperability we need to agree some such choices.) #g -- On 29/05/2020 17:45, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: > Hi Graham, > > I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite the contrary. > I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to express my > deductions. > > This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head: > > > If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI, what's leftover? > The colon. > And what governs the colon? > The dereferencing algorithm. > Does http use a colon in its dereferencing? > It does. > What about a URN? > It does. > FTP and Mailto? > Yup the same. > So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them same output? > Yes. > All of them? > Yes. > Can you prove it? > Yes. > Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them? > Because they are interchangeable. > Interchangeable everywhere? > No, just within the scope of their placement. That's why URNs can use a bunch > of colons and not interfere with the first colon after the URN scheme name. > But it says the colon is required doesn't it? > I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that. > But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see that right? > Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" and the colon is not a > component. > Wait, what does generic mean? > Not specific. > So the generic syntax is not specific? > That's right. > So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something that is not specific? > Yup, says it right there in the abstract. > > From here my mental conversation took a left turn. But I wanted to put this > out here so that the members of this list didn't think my intent was for purely > self interest reasons but that we can all use what's here. > Tim > >> On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne < gk@ninebynine.org >> > wrote: >> >> >> Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But on closer study, >> I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in the sense that >> they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence that when used as >> delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI is affected by >> URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986). >> >> But some of these reserved characters already have defined purposes in URI >> structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not to interfere with >> such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI path would >> interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragment. >> >> Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to delimit the >> scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on this list to use >> ":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary. >> >> As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme-specific >> delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using one from the >> "sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generic URI syntax and >> interpretation. >> >> #g >> -- >> >> >> On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> By "safe" I meant like "..... >>> >>> safe to be >>> used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms for >>> delimiting data subcomponents within a URI" >>> >>> Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>>> On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler < dthaler@microsoft.com >>>> > wrote: >> >> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J >> >> >> >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org >> > *On Behalf Of *Dave Thaler >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM >> >> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney < tim@dropnumber.com >; >> uri-review@ietf.org >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> >> >> >> I don’t understand your question.   The URL syntax is fixed by that RFC. >> >> >> >> I don’t know what you mean by “safe” or “valid”. >> >> >> >> If by “valid” you mean “allowed by RFC 3986”, the answer is that they may only >> >> appear in a URL literally >> >> >> >> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise they must be pct-encoded. >> >> >> >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org >> >> >> >> >> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM >> >> *To:* uri-review@ietf.org > uri-review@ietf.org > >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> >> >> >> >> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set were safe and valid, would >> >> you oppose their use in URIs? >> >> >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler < dthaler@microsoft.com >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Tim, >> >> >> >> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the hier-part is what >> >> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says: >> >> >> >> URI         = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] >> >> >> >> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs. >> >> >> >> So “drop#sd54g54” is not a URI because it does not conform to the above >> >> syntax, as it has no “:” >> >> >> >> “drop:sd54g54” on the other hand would be a valid URI. >> >> >> >> This is what folks are saying when they say if you just change the “#” to >> >> a “:” in your draft then it becomes legal. >> >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> *From:*Uri-review < uri-review-bounces@ietf.org >> >> >> >> >> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney >> >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM >> >> *To:* Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net >> >>; >> >> uri-review@ietf.org > uri-review@ietf.org > >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Erik, >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference to section 3. >> >> >> >> Would you agree that in " https://ietf.org >> >> < "" rel="noopener" >> target="_blank">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339204192&sdata=UJ7TQnKfGZMnWkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&reserved=0>" >> >> >> the colon is not part of the hier-part? >> >> >> >> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde < erik.wilde@dret.net >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> hey tim. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you. But when >> >> the "#" >> >> >> >> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment, >> >> >> >> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything following it never >> >> >> >> leaves the client, by definition.. >> >> >> >> >> >> it is leaving as a >> >> >> >> way to separate the URI components, and or for http it >> >> >> >> would be separating and . It is this that >> >> makes me >> >> >> >> believe that even if the colon is required for http resolution, it is >> >> >> >> not necessarily required for all URI. >> >> >> >> this discussion could be more productive if you had a brief look at the >> >> >> >> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown in >> >> >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3 >> >> < >> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=upZbOkALJ8SuEk%2FpLLqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqpMAyITzc8%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] >> >> >> >> >> >> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon. >> >> >> >> >> >> cheers, >> >> >> >> >> >> dret. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> erik wilde | mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net >> > | >> >> >> >> | http://dret.net/netdret >> >> < >> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=hq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> | >> >> >> >> | http://twitter.com/dret >> >> < >> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339224105&sdata=9V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Uri-review mailing list >>> Uri-review@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review From nobody Sat May 30 05:21:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90B93A0A1C for ; 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Sat, 30 May 2020 14:20:15 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 08:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Graham Klyne , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:T9yonoRgRuidHnDM67h2uVzzeN3YlGmNspN+St3i/pkzGk7EEvg WfqA/55Odbhix7BYcPKrKIb1UjKUExQB5lfR0rdPgQ0JtFh+QXdHdYfyx8c/aGvfUF/BOEs gopXq2TG5QcbUn4poM/TZDomzSPC32tHJgnXfL9Kkjx/OSrSSV3r5qE4DNKjpqcHpMuZHAv 5cp9se8ZE3PW/VWgI8ILg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:34nTIojgEws=:RqXdfFl7fnrjjr8BJsSoc9 /o298dnDldYG4w6dE4ly8Fboso2rSZZuEB09www29cMymWCpjNva6byNHBvRC7YW+0wwCUi+j ODmKbQnYLLJXJUL3KPRqDjKrR6o7W8547jGe/2qAXaMYw2GCsmUd2c0FGFitNCVju1ttSOeWY 5ujayglfcdvbYK3KxbYYOIAbtx+NzJ6xlzIcS42KCwmv6Km/IiOr1InB6Q5pgXkqsO8xZZq/W IU6T/0MUuVR0Zw6Lg9QSJjYr+ukKHyVV6rV/G3CppFGq1b2xfwerRrJBU5+yOjcn/qslGUkjQ wAmfRRAJ4o7XX+5Wt5pgIqJcxAyG+0LItBnvbDkEcLXMB0fyp/zQcuhbEgo10P6FP03WuZPKX aP1QgIBT5X80NM+otK6oIQz8zqV1LHOg407CE2sIly/hDCGvl114JOhXFL7hjsMLALTIZBSBN cGtvtP6IHih0fbutfNcP/qakk97Frf4EKW53Wx9+ZMVDQGavPHVBgkiW1OBRuLKUbFCEO4wxG lZxmTsCZlMdM0uoYSJrC/GATPLbuEoRmz63VRKeOAd306gDMn8Gy3T5l/uSuKbv4ZlpTJhzhN Y66vdxFlPbxcTYL6CC8nLfs/jf9oHpzIylqVsYVCkSznyj8xMPsLIZ2eOFp/GXckXcHZcinLM 0VTIQujkAU//lC1EPmYnWGoD8Yl+BfivihJBvVBbXba5A5g9zG0IPG/uI/o0rE3ofHbYXT0ru fdrduL/aAvf24V3LmxrQyfQAF9V+o6YzXnN66o5PSuVHs5euRtOuZIMW5YirKKF4xewTSMWb4 RZ9rEADTq2EwZmlJdeEdfDRmHWd2a5ThZcJ2rD4VfAYrB6UQsL2AzlgDSZyrnKSvK2yJr4p2K eBPFSmOFAnrU5UTxYvMQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 12:20:58 -0000 =20 =20

Hi Graham,

>>A short answer here is that you need the colon after the scheme= name

because that's what the URI specification, which represents a communit= y

consensus, says.

Yes, the entire 3986 represents a community consensus , even the p= arts some

don't like, including the parts I want to use. The community that rati= fied that

RFC still exists.

And if people want to make parsers that don't work with the spec it doe= sn't become the spec's problem.

Tim

On May 30, 2020 at 5:24 AM Graham Klyne < gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:

Hi Tim,

A short answer here is that you need the colon after the scheme name be= cause

that's what the URI specification, which represents a community consens= us, says.

A pragmatic response is that many contexts allow either a URI or a rela= tive

reference to be used (e.g. HTML <a href=3D"...">). So it's import= ant for a

processor to be able to distinguish between these cases. The colon afte= r the

sceme name is what makes that possible

( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.1).

(BTW, I wasn't suggesting you were treating anything as arbitrary. But = in

practice, some choices *are* arbitrary, and for interoperability we nee= d to

agree some such choices.)

#g

--

On 29/05/2020 17:45, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

Hi Graham,

I would never treat suggestions from this list as arbitrary, quite the= contrary.

I want to change the format of this reply just for a minute to express= my

deductions.

This is an excerpt from the conversation in my head:

If you take away all the components and subcomponents of a URI, what's= leftover?

The colon.

And what governs the colon?

The dereferencing algorithm.

Does http use a colon in its dereferencing?

It does.

What about a URN?

It does.

FTP and Mailto?

Yup the same.

So If you change the colon to a number sign would you get them same ou= tput?

Yes.

All of them?

Yes.

Can you prove it?

Yes.

Why do all the delimiters have quotes around them?

Because they are interchangeable.

Interchangeable everywhere?

No, just within the scope of their placement. That's why URNs ca= n use a bunch

of colons and not interfere with the first colon after the URN scheme = name.

But it says the colon is required doesn't it?

I can not pinpoint the sentence that says that.

But section 3, the colon is in the generic syntax, you can see that ri= ght?

Yes but the title of section 3 is "Syntax Components" and the colon is= not a

component.

Wait, what does generic mean?

Not specific.

So the generic syntax is not specific?

That's right.

So [RFC3986] is a specification that is defining something that is not= specific?

Yup, says it right there in the abstract.

From here my mental conversation took a left turn. But I wanted = to put this

out here so that the members of this list didn't think my intent was f= or purely

self interest reasons but that we can all use what's here.

Tim

On May 29, 2020 at 6:01 AM Graham Klyne <=20 gk@ninebynine.org

<mailto: gk@ninebynine.org>> wr= ote:

>>

>> Hmmm... I find that bit of RFC3986 isn't immeditely clear. But= on closer study,

>> I think it's simply saying that the characters are "safe" in t= he sense that

>> they are protected from change by URI normalization, hence tha= t when used as

>> delimiters there is no risk that the interpretation of the URI= is affected by

>> URI normalization (see also section 6 of RFC 3986).

>>

>> But some of these reserved characters already have defined pur= poses in URI

>> structure, and any scheme-dependent use needs to take care not= to interfere with

>> such use. For example, using "#" as a delimiter within a URI p= ath would

>> interfere with it's already-defined purpose to delimit a fragm= ent.

>>

>> Also, current URI structure *requires* that the ":" is used to= delimit the

>> scheme name from the rest of the URI. Suggestions by others on= this list to use

>> ":" rather than "#" are not entirely arbitrary.

>>

>> As a rule of thumb, I would suggest that if you do need scheme= -specific

>> delimiters (and it's not clear to me that you do), then using = one from the

>> "sub-delims" set is more likely to avoid conflicts with generi= c URI syntax and

>> interpretation.

>>

>> #g

>> --

>>

>>

>> On 28/05/2020 02:06, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

>>> Hi Dave,

>>>

>>> By "safe" I meant like ".....

>>>

>>> safe to be

>>> used by scheme-specific and producer-specific algorithms f= or

>>> delimiting data subcomponents within a URI"

>>>

>>> Like it says in section 2.2 of RFC3986.

>>>

>>> Tim

>>>

>>>> On May 27, 2020 at 8:48 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com

>>>> <mailto: dthaler@microsoft.com>&= gt; wrote:

>> >> s/URL/URI/ in both cases in my response J

>> >>

>> >> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org

>> <mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>> *On Behalf Of *Dave Thaler

>> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:47 PM

>> >> *To:* Timothy Mcsweeney <=20 tim@dropnumber.com <mailto= : tim@dropnumber.com>>;

>>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: uri-review@ietf.org>

>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> I don=E2=80=99t understand your question.  = The URL syntax is fixed by that RFC.

>> >>

>> >> I don=E2=80=99t know what you mean by =E2=80=9Csafe= =E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D.

>> >>

>> >> If by =E2=80=9Cvalid=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Callow= ed by RFC 3986=E2=80=9D, the answer is that they may only

>> >> appear in a URL literally

>> >>

>> >> if they have the exact meaning in the RFC, otherwise = they must be pct-encoded.

>> >>

>> >> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org

>> <mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>

>> >> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org <mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>>>

>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:05 PM

>> >> *To:*=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: uri-review@ietf.org> <= mailto:

>>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: uri-review@ietf.org>>

>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Hi Dave,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> If the other six gen-delims from the reserved set wer= e safe and valid, would

>> >> you oppose their use in URIs?

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Tim

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On May 24, 2020 at 6:08 PM Dave Thaler <=20 dthaler@microsoft.com

>> <mailto: dthaler@microsoft.com>

>> >> <mailto:=20 dthaler@microsoft.com <= mailto: dthaler@microsoft.com>&= gt;> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Hi Tim,

>> >>

>> >> Correct the colon is not part of the hier-part, the h= ier-part is what

>> >> comes after the colon. RFC 3986 says:

>> >>

>> >> URI         = =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

>> >>

>> >> Only strings that conform to the above are URIs.

>> >>

>> >> So =E2=80=9Cdrop#sd54g54=E2=80=9D is not a URI becaus= e it does not conform to the above

>> >> syntax, as it has no =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D

>> >>

>> >> =E2=80=9Cdrop:sd54g54=E2=80=9D on the other hand woul= d be a valid URI.

>> >>

>> >> This is what folks are saying when they say if you ju= st change the =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D to

>> >> a =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D in your draft then it becomes l= egal.

>> >>

>> >> Dave

>> >>

>> >> *From:*Uri-review <=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org

>> <mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>

>> >> <mailto:=20 uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org <mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.= org>>>

>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Mcsweeney

>> >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2020 11:26 AM

>> >> *To:* Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to: erik.wilde@dret.net>

>> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to: erik.wilde@dret.net>>&= gt;;

>> >>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: uri-review@ietf.org> <= mailto:

>>=20 uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: uri-review@ietf.org>>

>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Uri-review] Request for review

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Hi Erik,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Thank you, I will have another look at my reference t= o section 3.

>> >>

>> >> Would you agree that in "=20 https:/= /ietf.org

>> >> < "" rel=3D"noopener"

>> target=3D"_blank"> "" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">https://na= m06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2F&d= ata=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%= 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339204192&sdata= =3DUJ7TQnKfGZMnWkBKZCVozZQhn%2BGir1saiPQoNGV2C9M%3D&reserved=3D0>"

>>

>> >> the colon is not part of the hier-part?

>> >>

>> >> On May 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Erik Wilde <=20 erik.wilde@dret.net

>> <mailto: erik.wilde@dret.net>

>> >> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to: erik.wilde@dret.net>>&= gt; wrote:

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> hey tim.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> On 2020-05-24 17:53, Timothy Mcsweeney wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Yes, I agree and understand that the same way as you.= But when

>> >> the "#"

>> >>

>> >> leaves the client it is not leaving as a fragment,

>> >>

>> >> what people are telling you is that "#" and anything = following it never

>> >>

>> >> leaves the client, by definition..

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> it is leaving as a

>> >>

>> >> way to separate the URI components, <scheme> an= d <path> or for http it

>> >>

>> >> would be separating <scheme> and <authority&= gt;. It is this that

>> >> makes me

>> >>

>> >> believe that even if the colon is required for http r= esolution, it is

>> >>

>> >> not necessarily required for all URI.

>> >>

>> >> this discussion could be more productive if you had a= brief look at the

>> >>

>> >> specs you're depending on. the very first rule shown = in

>> >>

>> >>=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3

>> >> <

>>=20 https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%= 2F%2Ftools.ietf..org%2Fhtml%2Frfc3986%23section-3&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdtha= ler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C72f988bf86f141af91= ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata=3DupZbOkALJ8SuEk%2FpL= LqhdDDUNMhdpSmjWqpMAyITzc8%3D&reserved=3D0>

>>

>> >> is

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" frag= ment ]

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> each URI is defined like this and must have a colon.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> cheers,

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> dret.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >> erik wilde | mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to: erik.wilde@dret.net>

>> <mailto:=20 erik.wilde@dret.net <mail= to: erik.wilde@dret.net>> = |

>> >>

>> >> |=20 = http://dret.net/netdret

>> >> <

>>=20 https://nam06.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&d= ata=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%= 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339214150&sdata= =3Dhq8QVDrXxRmV3iS6DF7R%2FeXFtDKntMcYOHnLSMqx5zo%3D&reserved=3D0>= ;

>>

>> >> |

>> >>

>> >> |=20 = http://twitter.com/dret

>> >> <

>>=20 https://nam06.safe= links.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&dat= a=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cb115c7f8c70b410eb98308d802a0a8f4%7C= 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637262236339224105&sdata=3D9= V5l2cgygLF2GJbT9Eh0ptd2mv4YRbvZm6oaYSrf8fE%3D&reserved=3D0>

>>

>> >> |

>> >>

>> >>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Uri-review mailing list

>>>=20 Uri-review@ietf.org <mail= to: Uri-review@ietf.org>

>>>=20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review

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Sat, 30 May 2020 14:01:58 +0000 From: Michael Wojcik To: Timothy Mcsweeney , "uri-review@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Uri-review] Request for review Thread-Index: AQHWLXvVZweT8TYEzku3H6nMr+4sWaivKDl1gABmRgCAAPVoAIAA/yoAgABjTYCAAr7PAIABtHOAgADZ/gCAACfJAIAAEHSAgAACgYCAACgmgIAAPlAAgATXhYCAAAuxAIAAAFQAgAAFBQCAAif8AIAAcNOAgAEW/4CAADEygIAAGNWA Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 14:01:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dropnumber.com; 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Sat, 30 May 2020 08:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BemBi9_KJYNn for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ACEE3A09A2 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mw8kq-1ipPoz2pfQ-00s9iL; Sat, 30 May 2020 17:00:17 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 11:00:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Michael Wojcik , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1759640974.393018.1590850816391@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:liv1tisIwDPnpf6T69X1fkUJILCTdAyr44vVxZFttMurOyF7wCN 8ixq0tTDaC3Gy8LXdOTvisuZE4oAJ7ZZOc9VqCnWGkWl+8hz9rN5McyHDyoBKeMCGBjrwaF zBXTtO7LtJUbc+H6X9gCiGpndc5lP7g5HYa7D+V10Hm88cbEGO5wmUxZeNu1Eyvdu/0EIH7 ZtUddWAkRKastY+lDTe1Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:70DAmasOALQ=:D/VsqhO4pbi4C1p9jXjV5P ot6FWYxGfDOGel1k5djRJCbgKreP380yG13EIfoP/Nm+YZ9ZMIp950Sh5gnUTK9SM2XXhoFj8 MFlTI/40EMz6lGpPa718V4dtBKyCL//CokQPgpmhjdIF3/4BeVbS54gEEAht1euvcL2G98Akc h/1HQSf7KIHgPNuaNeSNGq48zkowAnAq6yr6jOazsCAug3ONcac8I0Y/pr4xv/FSFjzWSFQLl 7SP9RpTghls4qT1Pr0ngbSqLrMU8IDceJ2yhUb80+bsZ+h4y4UZg2m6dDZML1l9/jkJz6Aiaq GJz51wyhxuM32enFxW/lj69wy03ZyoBYtkiSczdNNj4FapvRbdzcK9NnPkqyHbsy3E0i1lW63 bdpJ6LK1GOfdMPz3fsuXjeyyJSdRJ6Qs1PrWPEg30Hhb9NdRgZRwf9951QxC24GF2oDibYBX/ t2KwiR2MQexWZgIuEmCnMcJneyHNHVK6SMc6rtno0bVglBB6apT2UO5MBc3pvUMcBPCU5V0+A D0lvhfQFSlXuAx1OO9hOwjInKshL2pUCQSF1bTs5KJeGHX7y5QubNT7j45AILZ9BIKu5mJEiH A7X1DFQTwX5FCQwnzpQqxuVUJlmgvsVuwytBxaTEI4rAhJB1grp+m+1Oa4HXKABjsRGi18SLC 5jdI48VraF2cRDIzqA8unjJpeYRZV9IX3SyaOhvMv/ZCtxJ2qKVM7hrXqUtq/t4BG5t7HyZTz 3Rn69BRbh8PhSzWih3NbsDdjWVtZuViKK2VfWFHku6Q2vizheZMMziQSunKdCytzaFJ4iSE7K hytz4EH1ZxYrYKq/MmO/matoZfvurzqo4zf3ZHjrjT194SeZwam+T6TwF/CMjtwr/e7Z3LK Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 15:00:47 -0000

Hi Michael,

Before I reply to that, I want to be sure you and I are on the same page about
how my draft works. Using the browser example, drop#mk34s is queried,
reponses given, the browser then goes to http://mk34s.dropexample.com
and in the browser address bar it says http://mk34s.dropexample.com.

Is that how you understand my draft?

Tim

On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Wojcik < Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com> wrote:

From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 06:20

To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org

And if people want to make parsers that don't work with the spec it doesn't

become the spec's problem.

That's not the issue here. The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986.

3986 section 3 is not ambiguous. The first production is:

URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

The colon is explicit and not optional. A minimal URI consists of a scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. There's no wiggle room there, and no amount of casuistry regarding other parts of 3986 will change that.

Someone could also point to 1.2.3, where the language clearly notes that the colon is the scheme delimiter; or 3.5, which makes it clear that the hash symbol is always the fragment delimiter. But those arguments are redundant in light of the generic-URI top-level production that begins section 3.

To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for repurposing the fragment identifier?

--

Michael Wojcik

From nobody Sat May 30 08:27:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3CE13A08D3 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KB17eaV9yvTu for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C06C3A08D4 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lm2Pn-1j6GfR2Lsf-00ZiOz for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 17:27:04 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 11:27:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <906613693.393411.1590852424418@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:hZAg/UU2mVgjErz2tcLC7q4MHxjJZZelRv0A6sGeXKGLu/YiXd7 uIQmX3t/dgIB7Zzrey2Z2NmzXz14X193cEzRXCOG1Mz8VHHOqbmLctVwJNo+ASp9i20eUG5 o8PKRAKqS3ptJnMg6CNClUcnDnLdlVzRos42EaD3KbA9D/UzuFpjFBTsPQkOoD8Q5PXqBrn zvFfMizMjy6fk9YuWSMJA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:0BxIQTqTnhc=:ethuUnbRQJUjjfvXALLpDs QR6+f9kwI6d0/DDxAtz2FD5y6w3ynzlgddT8VPBnVq0iInFg9O8/frT/2+KkfqySVFRF0lm84 K6JEZUCMy4/Zv/E6keTweoBkxQBG3nWKmXnVyGwZBo8jNorfZE6YDbgnDnlzV1B4KaKv2elmO YyMRFqjnOgzpvFOFHPGEITXvzi/8ghj2Tfh0bG3BdwMEYmZgCwKO5XBFhDmMfKtCY8FRZCY88 EjVVlBqDfmzq7kunKygKxKWgtEKq5tgyHv67umI4JWdw9Oqf4w0RPKZy9YXpCMeqtYAzd8IAn 1luKzUhyZ7oDahmX/2VgCgQEa0d2b6Guy7KI8jrY1fKeGW0v0FeNg5Jtr9qC1zVmvJHxpYDdC 28zp2ma+wbesgoPeeteOU5+WCXMKPo8yCIUuG1XjoHwLPyFhU5t+XMtF52dwIFG/uMsalhuNc 98BXMGWnSo3Q7qcvZGJcNJHCJaNU8wzFDrKx9/RLwucfOO0Z/9SUeUyQT3YytGFBJe4hdn2HO oyr63BQpZs/NWYoFDGxIl8iTG5gCfKoLlhXBgJXUPfprT4hxprXERNLbk7urEx6+vQYcTcIUI Oq/xda14xzuyXZiDmnc79mGGUyspDGKHoAvMcWg5FW0KsyEs0CuVeh+txZoN8OvWv37Fy+/so alFvwlrZleQYaoD2RyJ9Lc7LyTigUPoS3TijgPQXzr/mCDbQBqSgsxzhqfoVB+uI1hHIOAGED byKhw8BJn7LxIBAcQ13EMoU1u0qu22asnXkXOCrQnA0S2xjHttx4qte6udqltcvVDW/1eghbp D5xmoa3Tfc6LQ8j1Ir0uxx7U3mfrpdNcq37VYQGoVTTxIIn7jIdFapPHuHVaGA9jpFZcyYk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 15:27:07 -0000

Hi Michael,

Before I reply to that, I want to be sure you and I are on the same page about

how my draft works. Using the browser example, drop#mk34s is queried,

reponses given, the browser then goes to <http://mk34s.dropexample.com>

and in the browser address bar it says <http://mk34s.dropexample.com>.

Is that how you understand my draft?

Tim

On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Wojcik < Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com> wrote:

From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 06:20

To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org

And if people want to make parsers that don't work with the spec it doesn't

become the spec's problem.

That's not the issue here. The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986.

3986 section 3 is not ambiguous. The first production is:

URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

The colon is explicit and not optional. A minimal URI consists of a scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. There's no wiggle room there, and no amount of casuistry regarding other parts of 3986 will change that.

Someone could also point to 1.2.3, where the language clearly notes that the colon is the scheme delimiter; or 3.5, which makes it clear that the hash symbol is always the fragment delimiter. But those arguments are redundant in light of the generic-URI top-level production that begins section 3.

To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for repurposing the fragment identifier?

--

Michael Wojcik

From nobody Sun May 31 07:03:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F08A3A0849 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 07:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KDvGJFLZIQM4 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 07:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m9a0014g.houston.softwaregrp.com (m9a0014g.houston.softwaregrp.com [15.124.64.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D6D03A083F for ; 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Sun, 31 May 2020 14:02:50 +0000 From: Michael Wojcik To: "uri-review@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Uri-review] Request for review Thread-Index: AQHWLXvVZweT8TYEzku3H6nMr+4sWaivKDl1gABmRgCAAPVoAIAA/yoAgABjTYCAAr7PAIABtHOAgADZ/gCAACfJAIAAEHSAgAACgYCAACgmgIAAPlAAgATXhYCAAAuxAIAAAFQAgAAFBQCAAif8AIAAcNOAgAEW/4CAADEygIAANEnWgAF2yuA= Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 14:02:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> <906613693.393411.1590852424418@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <906613693.393411.1590852424418@email.ionos.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; 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Sun, 31 May 2020 11:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a58 From: "Daniel R. Tobias" To: uri-review@ietf.org Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 14:24:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5ED3F66B.7204.10663FF@dan.tobias.name> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com>, X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.73.639) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudeffedguddvudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvffgguffkjghfofgtgfesthfuredtffdtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdffrghnihgvlhcutfdrucfvohgsihgrshdfuceouggrnhesthhosghirghsrdhnrghmvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepteekhffhueevtefftdeugeehtdevjeffhfegheeutdeiveevfeduleelvdehgfejnecuffhomhgrihhnpegurghnrdhinhhfohenucfkphepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgdutddrtddrtddrvdgnpdhinhgvthepjeefrddvgeehrddvudegrdduudehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpedfffgrnhhivghlucftrdcuvfhosghirghsfdcuoegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegurghnsehtohgsihgrshdrnhgrmhgvpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehurhhiqdhrvghvihgvfiesihgvthhfrdhorhhg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 18:24:49 -0000 On 30 May 2020 at 14:01, Michael Wojcik wrote: > To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about > this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for > repurposing the fragment identifier? I'm struggling to figure out what the guy's true agenda is, too; why he's so wedded to the nonstandard syntax he is proposing. Maybe he's got an implementation out there somewhere with the quirky syntax embedded that he doesn't want to have to change? -- == Dan == Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ From nobody Sun May 31 12:02:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBD83A0BDD for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zjm9oxgqiEuV for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 205873A0E53 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LfU6x-1jCOn030eX-00p12x; Sun, 31 May 2020 21:02:15 +0200 Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 15:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: "Daniel R. Tobias" , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <635829576.405068.1590951735546@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <5ED3F66B.7204.10663FF@dan.tobias.name> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com>, <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com>, <5ED3F66B.7204.10663FF@dan.tobias.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:f24uWMXj6ouSN/SlL4TUXnMuclzFNqYrp0Pqz9f7uYF8uivJsdO rZiqdbw/cH+4IP6bL2fuBNEr26pQAN0V7OAb7WajNMOUD45tuwpOBetqzVydpB+kShbVY/i JgOmwOpU0B9MjZ/3rk5bAjaz7ONvOQK2QwgUcAPHukuEYByM67I2xd7gqjwYvJGQopoHwtP l04ax/B/VYYLAu7YAfSAQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:qwk07gQ+/Is=:HsB3/0e/R+AGO6kPAOmhda jiRMms9zBosuFqcjPnVWlhDhMSgQhSHTLJT3BadQCL1o7hYk1sdpvHRg2G9laNqyb+vdGMf9o pak2q7avD+bl8Z8Mf15BBiMQ5JX1lIkVT7gLJUV49MriIe2lnN6lZc8AHRAQnaQzk/MzmofyQ qcoFdQ+FkiYLswUTjmriTIcr+ZOOnO+XU99y0N5sxizlTh/EMgpuvU2Wktv1KeE6HBYbijcFq Za7Ru0EajQ7j1jTDJjt1VHqJdjfY/pj8HJlW+VaNzmwaX2/qsZbkyTiIZripKG6R6P3KPj6g8 Ro2lIwnTUTsETT8EFL7a0a0gCuxwU5s9BXR94Pl3VqD7TIizfubhGq7UPujzZHWQ6ttUfAzR3 1v2n1kowl+JVJFkcq5WtWslAyOREsUP77DnPpXa2NggWVwtqtURlMiJi/WKshzA/1MBYvd9nE BMdJOthI75TtD0bvr5TpSwm7IgroAY5oSAwAUvr/Wg4RUh/qRjnnZ/52G8SOHNivDkSP7MqB0 z9YhVI3wQNROmg088uwe/dlxNzDss3qnhZlyjvU21KGbVJNppnhHkdE/o9hrK12jrJc4rEo38 Bz7gs0BokfPjaSao4ZuG8LUHRRJVwYAd//w4yN+B2ot9Q1oOHfcR0ZziTJTe5gB6iBm4RT+ow g7PZeKurgFlzZ4VotVLrKYSOUKX9r5NnGCoaPe/zG111Y0zDnv7nNdkiJnaJQipWaqCbzSUOk CReOthyvWGEAJkAem9gkYiDXF83P+0BLHRzYB0mv8f2o7WL2mQQIyp6JL8c40nOrZ3Qf/PtPY QDAG48lK/t2YRoN7P9+AbdmbPQyhI0YWbfbk97wmYI2M+ffoHqqDIAuY+WStIg5UcKdHVzr Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 19:02:54 -0000
I am bringing a product to market. In the draft it says dropexample.com and my email, as you know, my is dropnumber.com. So its drop number, not drop colon. Your struggle is over.

On May 31, 2020 at 2:24 PM "Daniel R. Tobias" < dan@tobias.name> wrote:

On 30 May 2020 at 14:01, Michael Wojcik wrote:

To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about

this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for

repurposing the fragment identifier?

I'm struggling to figure out what the guy's true agenda is, too; why

he's so wedded to the nonstandard syntax he is proposing. Maybe he's

got an implementation out there somewhere with the quirky syntax

embedded that he doesn't want to have to change?

--

== Dan ==

Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/

Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

_______________________________________________

Uri-review mailing list

Uri-review@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review

From nobody Sun May 31 12:16:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55F03A0C29 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:16:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b9nmTZOog57W for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 927103A0C28 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 12:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw03.schlund.de ([10.72.72.49]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LZgcc-1jGMPh1MUO-00lVlW; Sun, 31 May 2020 21:15:57 +0200 Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 15:15:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Michael Wojcik , uri-review@ietf.org Message-ID: <1924775136.405242.1590952556836@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/3zOHh5wSg3cYyiLjEGLJmUm5G1zoU+c1s+0TnMfYxTuNIX8kxO 0UXhdQ473oa2Ejh/92t2Ao8PXZ/jevOeJBxQhw1INvNkFHGT39LQA59ANW8z6zMWydFVSTs HW5q/MwneBobvAiLO+BEzbZOcLlEh8bl2xg/5uZnskuWnJDO2IFeLD4W+XbmDQdVyxcHpQA 6OFGzLvrPf4bMQUuIQUoQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:c1MIxM29d5U=:m3gY874pby0uz8zYsTmr2z rw4j+2+qdkH3FHAOwGhhW501RdxappzvinBChuhgzTGxggNRHJpWbdift5BzpA96YaTOyBzU8 auB7BdUPpElQ945IyrUzoa6RKJG8RN5PlCkyR7uVDroN+G/dtDtoGzXhhwe7+oZd5dJbfhGP9 D22S8nWhHnJApjObil3evwHOuD+bwJao0EYWVnVpaBYFuBVNvgKZ9Zu6RcY61zk+8q53n5rtL 8BYmo8uMzNjQWOuPNWqm1tX5RqpA1TigfQ9GOcGNoJD2yg8APMu6Us1PlUfayT0CPeOVVTveg CXrsv0JTL/Ivshs3vgaghdCrGbioz2aYIexCJPrpgHE1258UcjWzoRXa8G8+VAVBmiKnohKuw pYQR7pl/lwIcOIzuSgn8D4IBN3ld5cW+8wk62FiuEHE+n1PIHO3ue+uEFXa974OJDNFaXHLyV fBX08JMXuiUh2RAnpAnOgBTYEKx8whJd0e34IjhYeZhYktnXTlv87FqSUNq8aHGnyALNLpf2V 7GZDpXkO9z93rrG5KuCP3lPxovxIlQiTKxEz5ond5IPegjkBMDhG5PC8vgVT5WrckhDThxW3H 5tNs6tHjszhhpkgfMJsvH4v1Auiwi9607R/AgLOHcnu2NsFo30agB3qhQ9h9Jm/IXnn4R7cd2 VuYhRV4mOBXgkSqbyxeOsUIkfdzjk8UyjXhPncAvsVX+WazydDXyXjBukSNgAt2u6+wy5BGHu Ipyww5w+8ilTbTvT4kY1RT74aIryj2kurFEhMPySWZ11ef9F5IsBU/pSMOr0opJAxSldGVd96 MRI4iQwK1URjtEMkm/Wtfua0M1qhTw91Nny5/pRNgF6MGjNwUjj/8mbuO9Gpl3mTcv/m7BP Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 19:16:06 -0000
>The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986.

I noticed two of the original authors are on the email list. It would

be nice to hear what the original interpretation was.

>To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about this.

Having a different perspective is no being difficult.

Imagine the first color blind person telling everyone the grass is dark gray.

On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Wojcik < Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com> wrote:

From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 06:20

To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org

And if people want to make parsers that don't work with the spec it doesn't

become the spec's problem.

That's not the issue here. The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986.

3986 section 3 is not ambiguous. The first production is:

URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]

The colon is explicit and not optional. A minimal URI consists of a scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. There's no wiggle room there, and no amount of casuistry regarding other parts of 3986 will change that.

Someone could also point to 1.2.3, where the language clearly notes that the colon is the scheme delimiter; or 3.5, which makes it clear that the hash symbol is always the fragment delimiter. But those arguments are redundant in light of the generic-URI top-level production that begins section 3.

To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for repurposing the fragment identifier?

--

Michael Wojcik

From nobody Sun May 31 14:16:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DDB63A0DA7 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3KS_-5rw1vT9 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1041.google.com (mail-pj1-x1041.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1041]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A79F43A0DA5 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1041.google.com with SMTP id k2so4114599pjs.2 for ; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=imfYO6rm5ZWMiuBBMflmZ4mM5NVMv0YcQdX4D4mfPgM=; b=As1vBiHVYo3Y3vVI2eGUmJiy6XH7wADZWCATSe92XaRv102HEuYFxc99bY2V81JWEp m6KtZX2K07wDy02hMfZJe0UVs+kTmeXvdjt5rpXvPHtB8ALp6trJmsLw2oueCPmDOn+s WBGKfbIgcQHlPmNGRm9gGDsEV3pRhZxi83Az4bWeJK+/6vrYfG8BT+sNIG4q9PPWxk/8 Im7LCL4f37Byfns7y4YgNsJF/Ss/xNayA4fsx7EJLfAn2CGs4k7jteBmXGlrQIPgW5+f YE63B2dFQcz1XHgFVa6eA7sEda70Gu6SUX1b/0EWELOPYoFzcdPdk8xCJqhQUv8qHiYu ksqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=imfYO6rm5ZWMiuBBMflmZ4mM5NVMv0YcQdX4D4mfPgM=; b=rsVQIVhn3cRNGICw1T2+r+klY/h8UMVnQAVjFg+396TBlBfEPjuDcDXVrkGSosSpKX jYHB75WLtm2MpCD0y9FVcyTMatTVFYi1IWD1gE0epfvazCykJsRZaRaqCumUr1ls7LxU ENr6mUtjI++13Re3ic3E5Gk/l9/eX83BSrsdrDdCj7M6PTNceyM/aO2Xk1vk8Xzlzwx5 r+0QC354dDv23gPq71N0TEkKAfXi/0vHHUyyokNedSgGTjNA33EHJLmB92bY6mz7EH/y ey6lDXZNYnl3X5k1IF5YxxHOU4kv/xZqnCYDjCKmUsr1DvDUBxP41Eo3ZnbdfOArtX6s X+Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Tq9UaElXLM9GYz7hVkLavBE+8fYxDN7H0YDaHPL/JHem0K4a2 nwDSKRGFbgyUpk9Jmv5h6bw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzd2l2htIrdsPphFSslb/8xTnImw3QsMIz3sUNKXE4v6PPU3twugmqhyizxC6G6HFsLYJGxTw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c807:: with SMTP id u7mr4876684plx.16.1590959801920; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TVPC (c-67-169-101-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.169.101.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i26sm1641735pfo.0.2020.05.31.14.16.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Larry Masinter From: Larry Masinter X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" To: "'Timothy Mcsweeney'" , "'Michael Wojcik'" , Cc: "'Eliot Lear'" References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> <1924775136.405242.159095255 6836@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <1924775136.405242.1590952556836@email.ionos.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 14:16:40 -0700 Message-ID: <009601d63790$c79a12f0$56ce38d0$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0097_01D63756.1B3C7370" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGymr+RgmqR9KoorXl3tuJq/szTFwJYR2XSAqdVj/oCFtS2vgLcgkTOALiKKd8Dq5pEqAFDTkSgAZtVRbsB/PlolAHSMfbTAeyayrMDDafsLQHTAMmXAsRXq0oBYrpd8AFLHwJIAYT4f9Gn85X5MA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 21:16:44 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01D63756.1B3C7370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * I noticed two of the original authors are on the email list. It would = * be nice to hear what the original interpretation was.=20 =20 I wasn=E2=80=99t going to respond, but if you want my opinion, = it=E2=80=99s that=20 =20 we should change the registration form for new URI schemes to make this = more explicit, And we should consider updates to BCP 35/BCP 115 (Guidelines and = Registration Procedures for URI schemes to figure out a way to terminate = this kind of discussion. =20 I note that this re-(mis-)use of fragment identifier isn=E2=80=99t so = different from the URN wish to repurpose =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D. That we never required media type registrations to explain their = interpretation of fragment identifiers. We should. I note that for HTTP we can say =E2=80=9Cthe fragment identifier = isn=E2=80=99t sent to the server, only the base full URL=E2=80=9D but = that is not actually required and isn=E2=80=99t true for = =E2=80=9Cfile=E2=80=9D URLs since in that case there is no particular = =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D. I point out = https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/registerProtoc= olHandler=20 The = Navigator method registerProtocolHandler() lets web sites register their = ability to open or handle particular URL schemes (aka protocols).=20 For example, this API lets webmail sites open mailto: URLs, or VoIP = sites open tel: URLs. Which allows you to define =E2=80=9Cdrop=E2=80=9D URLs (which of course = start with =E2=80=9Cdrop:=E2=80=9D) =20 =20 From: Uri-review On Behalf Of Timothy = Mcsweeney Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 12:16 PM To: Michael Wojcik ; uri-review@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review =20 >The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986.=20 =20 I noticed two of the original authors are on the email list. It would=20 be nice to hear what the original interpretation was.=20 =20 >To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about = this.=20 =20 Having a different perspective is no being difficult. =20 Imagine the first color blind person telling everyone the grass is dark = gray.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Wojcik < = Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com > = wrote:=20 =20 =20 From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 06:20=20 To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org =20 And if people want to make parsers that don't work with the spec it = doesn't=20 become the spec's problem.=20 That's not the issue here. The issue here is that you're misinterpreting = RFC 3986.=20 =20 3986 section 3 is not ambiguous. The first production is:=20 =20 URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]=20 =20 The colon is explicit and not optional. A minimal URI consists of a = scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. There's no wiggle room there, and no = amount of casuistry regarding other parts of 3986 will change that.=20 =20 Someone could also point to 1.2.3, where the language clearly notes that = the colon is the scheme delimiter; or 3.5, which makes it clear that the = hash symbol is always the fragment delimiter. But those arguments are = redundant in light of the generic-URI top-level production that begins = section 3.=20 =20 To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so difficult about = this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in 3986 for = repurposing the fragment identifier?=20 =20 --=20 Michael Wojcik=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01D63756.1B3C7370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I noticed two of the = original authors are on the email list. It would =
be nice to hear what = the original interpretation was.

I = wasn=E2=80=99t going to respond, but if you want my opinion, = it=E2=80=99s that

we should = change the registration form for new URI schemes to make this more = explicit,
And we should consider = updates to BCP 35/BCP 115 (Guidelines and Registration Procedures for = URI schemes to figure out a way to terminate this kind of = discussion.

I note that this re-(mis-)use of fragment identifier = isn=E2=80=99t so different from the URN wish to repurpose = =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D.
That we never = required media type registrations to explain their interpretation of = fragment identifiers. We should.
I = note that for HTTP we can say =E2=80=9Cthe fragment identifier = isn=E2=80=99t sent to the server, only the base full URL=E2=80=9D but = that is not actually required and isn=E2=80=99t true for = =E2=80=9Cfile=E2=80=9D URLs since in that case there is no particular = =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D.
I point = out https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navig= ator/registerProtocolHandler =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The Navigator method registerProtocolHandler() = lets web sites register their ability to open or handle particular URL = schemes (aka protocols). =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0For example, this API = lets webmail sites open mailto: URLs, or VoIP sites = open tel: = URLs.
Which allows you to define = =E2=80=9Cdrop=E2=80=9D URLs (which of course start with = =E2=80=9Cdrop:=E2=80=9D)

From: = Uri-review <uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Timothy Mcsweeney
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 12:16 = PM
To: Michael Wojcik <Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com>; = uri-review@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for = review

>The = issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986. =

I = noticed two of the original authors are on the email list. It = would
be nice to hear = what the original interpretation was.

>To be honest, I don't understand why you're being = so difficult about this.

Having a different perspective is no being = difficult.
Imagine = the first color blind person telling everyone the grass is dark gray. =

On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Michael Wojcik < Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.c= om> wrote:

From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 06:20 =
To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org =
And if people want to make parsers that don't work = with the spec it doesn't
become the spec's problem. =
That's not = the issue here. The issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986. =

3986 section 3 is not ambiguous. The first production = is:

URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" = query ] [ "#" fragment ]

The colon is explicit and not optional. A minimal URI = consists of a scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. There's no wiggle room = there, and no amount of casuistry regarding other parts of 3986 will = change that.

Someone could also point to 1.2.3, where the language = clearly notes that the colon is the scheme delimiter; or 3.5, which = makes it clear that the hash symbol is always the fragment delimiter. = But those arguments are redundant in light of the generic-URI top-level = production that begins section 3.

To be honest, I don't understand why you're being so = difficult about this. What's your motive for trying to find grounds in = 3986 for repurposing the fragment identifier? =

--
Michael Wojcik =
------=_NextPart_000_0097_01D63756.1B3C7370-- From nobody Sun May 31 14:54:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: uri-review@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DAE53A0DFB; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XBMIuIeP5MCq; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA0033A0DFA; Sun, 31 May 2020 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxusgaltgw02.schlund.de ([10.72.72.48]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MiaDb-1j1mxz1MU3-00fi0q; Sun, 31 May 2020 23:54:00 +0200 Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Mcsweeney Reply-To: Timothy Mcsweeney To: Larry Masinter , Michael Wojcik , uri-review@ietf.org Cc: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <1225920323.477357.1590962038349@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <009601d63790$c79a12f0$56ce38d0$@acm.org> References: <491516506.246380.1589851279474@email.ionos.com> <5EC9B257.31362.CC5E003@dan.tobias.name> <1783049000.100771.1590323508943@email.ionos.com> <5ECA8A94.23977.101292FE@dan.tobias.name> <1426881880.158099.1590335585858@email.ionos.com> <94368b41-c15b-da2c-421d-fdd9300be6e9@dret.net> <1310141163.159340.1590344745080@email.ionos.com> <1081815563.141711.1590624311343@email.ionos.com> <117630321.142251.1590627970509@email.ionos.com> <8ae1641a-74c8-6c2d-7092-6cf53e745fb7@ninebynine.org> <797476254.282655.1590770737009@email.ionos.com> <656ab4ec-df34-c7a4-ed36-79a03623636c@ninebynine.org> <1435838702.391137.1590841215132@email.ionos.com> <1924775136.405242.159095255 6836@email.ionos.com> <009601d63790$c79a12f0$56ce38d0$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev31 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:olsODbCklg5qAMXCzKKKZ5XbhdlYN1TiaN7hMsPQLaToH9gvbDZ pJORJ84wWNdBdd7Tbdrr3mmDVsXqVzxzCa/rBPbOgSpou4KGaj5KFQdW6yiNHs5sr5y8BXa BTcgVuY4wUf0boVJDpTItcvpBBBfHIC2y5SPEp+MpfN7p7ZMlmn7yJVti1y481csnn+A5Qn dmD6mM49RhZy2R6CYLysw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xRn4utdtiEU=:jVIoXpjLorchMwCgNEPw37 B/6Nzs7kR5tGSm4guofIpk5bhRTYbNGjAs7SmF9zwiLxj8or0W404YDUDNHstPFxehWx7KaB0 SqN2dzwYEtoskpzklycm37reHvhk4A0QE0XmhA/0rbUMmC4lNmt9pjnAY3ezQ78b9LGcLaU41 qX6FXJd+c3P+9ByOymwlcjIonBLd9ziuGatqSOPgmaA0chvwuo2Z2VDGmpuZoOSmY4X98izzr 3d0gizhO0sGSfNT1JfvTTNatGB7IF4UmUWugpHVCU1g7LzfuxDB9VHfejubimI6yVX0olh3tT QNaFJIFAuAjw77CIG5UQtRDrxIGq5S602P/5Uk22pPvUOcyHqjTZXEJGZxjdOZQHKv1LdKeyb NXpd8W6RY26sCQGf3SEpWErEe8G1zMjGEE0yf4XRY6DR+WHmzXWjUW6og+1K8NyP666nBYCPR WxKnYOWpQbdRbJDRWuwgMnCF0GD3+0y6j96BmnPmfuxZlbGjzsMHTcl8VHYu9J+2qZbAgL3CR WdzLj2biOhkJBl/DxBQM/HZV7+/4y5FNECb8886tzzIlsOMJ92IONRRUYoRhPg6gtMD7BaLFD e/a4l+EA+qdY7lm/TwwjDXrxAheKYI58dpZHWVBX67PEXxMzpZdQQWKpP9TAXvJqOJzcnbk7D XCFx3WeYYUkjHYaK7uMLNI5zNhTcmHfZzGcENmf4ZQxJa9Rv0m00egwtQGw/wr01N7s6ibNzK Et086Tj7D85mV0k31D01WeNYStRE/SEdnM3NFljI3rNdBfiWglqEcUZFozwtza32AzzOdWuwI cJlhBSLWrxBbDtPwvScmlAT+9fWD8uweGlIaxBKpNC78qhYln66jCxxqdOOHiolExeZzUUz Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for review X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 21:54:07 -0000 =20 =20
Hi Larry,

Just so its crystal clear in my head, you're saying that the original in= tent of 3986

was that the colon, and only the colon, was to be used as the gen-delim = between

scheme and path regardless of implementation specific sytanx? I ha= ve that right?

On May 31, 2020 at 5:16 PM Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> wrote:=20

I noticed two of the original authors are on the email list. It wo= uld

be nice to hear what the original interpretation was.

I wasn=E2=80=99t going to respond,= but if you want my opinion, it=E2=80=99s that

we should change the registration = form for new URI schemes to make this more explicit,

And we should consider updates to = BCP 35/BCP 115 (Guidelines and Registration Procedures for URI schemes to f= igure out a way to terminate this kind of discussion.

I note that this re-(mis-)use of f= ragment identifier isn=E2=80=99t so different from the URN wish to repurpos= e =E2=80=9C#=E2=80=9D.

That we never required media type = registrations to explain their interpretation of fragment identifiers. We s= hould.

I note that for HTTP we can say = =E2=80=9Cthe fragment identifier isn=E2=80=99t sent to the server, only the= base full URL=E2=80=9D but that is not actually required and isn=E2=80=99t= true for =E2=80=9Cfile=E2=80=9D URLs since in that case there is no partic= ular =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D.

I point out ht= tps://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/registerProtocolHa= ndler

      The = Navigator= method registerProtoc= olHandler() lets w= eb sites register their ability to open or handle particular URL schemes (a= ka protocols).

     For example, this API lets webmail sit= es open mailto: URLs= , or VoIP sites open tel: URLs.
Which allows you to define =E2=80= =9Cdrop=E2=80=9D URLs (which of course start with =E2=80=9Cdrop:=E2=80=9D)<= /p>From: Uri-revi= ew <uri-review-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Timoth= y Mcsweeney Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 12:16 PM To: Michael Wojcik <Michael.Wojcik@microfocus.com>; uri-= review@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Request for r= eview >The issue here is that you'r= e misinterpreting RFC 3986. I noticed two of the original au= thors are on the email list. It would be nice to hear what the origina= l interpretation was. >To be honest, I don't unders= tand why you're being so difficult about this. Having a different perspective i= s no being difficult. Imagine the first color blind pe= rson telling everyone the grass is dark gray. On May 30, 2020 at 10:01 AM Mic= hael Wojcik < Michael.W= ojcik@microfocus.com> wrote: From: Uri-review [mailto: uri-review-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Timothy Mcsweeney Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 0= 6:20 To: Graham Klyne; uri-review@ietf.org And if people want to make par= sers that don't work with the spec it doesn't become the spec's problem. That's not the issue here. The = issue here is that you're misinterpreting RFC 3986. 3986 section 3 is not ambiguous= . The first production is: URI =3D scheme ":" hier-part [ = "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ] The colon is explicit and not o= ptional. A minimal URI consists of a scheme, a colon, and a hier-part. Ther= e's no wiggle room there, and no amount of casuistry regarding other parts = of 3986 will change that. Someone could also point to 1.2= .3, where the language clearly notes that the colon is the scheme delimiter= ; or 3.5, which makes it clear that the hash symbol is always the fragment = delimiter. But those arguments are redundant in light of the generic-URI to= p-level production that begins section 3. To be honest, I don't understan= d why you're being so difficult about this. What's your motive for trying t= o find grounds in 3986 for repurposing the fragment identifier? -- Michael Wojcik
=20