From kim@aida-event.de Thu Jan 1 10:54:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39913A6972 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:54:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IcIj8YZW4f6p for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-94-67-185-145.home.otenet.gr (ppp-94-67-185-145.home.otenet.gr [94.67.185.145]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E5B4A3A6801 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:54:53 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Happy New Year 2009 Greeting Gifts From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090101185454.E5B4A3A6801@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:54:53 -0800 (PST)


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From mamycat76@alicepro.fr Thu Jan 1 13:05:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5014D3A6AC1 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:05:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJxfPsiBoiPb for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from p54929EF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (p54929EF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.146.158.248]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E8363A6916 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:05:16 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: May your Dreams Come True! From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090101210517.4E8363A6916@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:05:16 -0800 (PST)


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From jhumni@aitlbd.net Thu Jan 1 15:23:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277D13A67B3 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:23:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -22.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-22.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bWCNEwyJGZMd for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from amechad.net (unknown [190.176.39.157]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8198A3A6452 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:23:34 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: When will we meet again? From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090101232335.8198A3A6452@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:23:34 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view as a webpage. From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 10:41:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04B63A682D; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:41:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1053A684E for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 06:01:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3H5OkRkvkvVH for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 06:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakerest.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:240:585:2:203:6dff:fe1a:4ddc]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F331D3A657C for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 06:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.1.54] ([10.1.1.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by lakerest.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n02E18pa034057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:01:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rrs@lakerest.net) Message-Id: <320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net> From: Randall Stewart To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= In-Reply-To: <285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:01:07 -0500 References: <378D168A-A299-4798-BF35-F97AD254BAE7@lurchi.franken.de> <49266BB0.8070908@sun.com> <52970.72.78.222.225.1227296961.squirrel@webmail.eecis.udel.edu> <492A7020.6020208@sun.com> <8A3B5057-3D34-415B-92C5-0EB0DE300131@lakerest.net> <492A928E.4070208@sun.com> <492ADE24.9080007@sun.com> <492B7A5D.3090107@sun.com> <20081125045620.GA14604@openss7.org> <178E7662-4128-4F6F-BFD6-3F51B7FC3B48@lurchi.franken.de> <492C1DC2.4060604@sun.com> <285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:41:19 -0800 Cc: tsvwg Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] SCTP support for Solaris X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Sorry for seeing this so late :-( On Nov 25, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Michael T=FCxen wrote: >> > So the idea is to be able to be able to provide a some cmghdr > structure, each one for > - The PPID > - The stream id > - Sending ordered/unordered > - the PR-SCTP policy > - the PR-SCTP value > - the SCTP-AUTH keyid > - the flags (from the sndrcv info flags) > - the context > - and a couple more that I forgot... > > The experience I had is that people avoid using the the > cmghdr stuff... That is why we added sctp_sendmsg() which > was just a wrapper added to handle the cmghdr stuff.. I tend to agree with you here Michael. I have taught quite a few classes on the SCTP socket API.. where you get blood curdling screams, groans and moans is when you try to get folks to use the cmsg stuff. Its real ugly and quite awkward to use. Most folks just plain do not want to use it. No matter what we do, I think having something simple to use is far better. Even if that means wrapping a library call to work with the cmsg headers (like lk-sctp does). R ------------------------------ Randall Stewart 803-317-4952 (cell) 803-345-0391(direct) From jgonzalez@aiu.edu Fri Jan 2 19:08:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCA33A6810 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:08:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -35.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1P9QIcG+t2sS for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ald-mpls.com (unknown [189.25.44.250]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A204D3A68D1 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:08:09 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: We need you here, now! 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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 06:03:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4A628C0EF; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:03:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52AE28C0EF for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:03:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P7h1T+HLU-2j for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakerest.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:240:585:2:203:6dff:fe1a:4ddc]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591BB28C0E1 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.1.54] ([10.1.1.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by lakerest.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n04E3a60062493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:03:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from randall@lakerest.net) Message-Id: From: Randy Stewart To: Tim Stevens In-Reply-To: <49269D37.5020609@intec.ugent.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:03:36 -0500 References: <4926859A.5040107@intec.ugent.be> <53812149-8995-4929-A85F-5FF596C50FA5@lakerest.net> <49269D37.5020609@intec.ugent.be> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Multihoming during SCTP 4-way handshake? X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Just saw this... sorry for the delay.. On Nov 21, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Tim Stevens wrote: > Dear Randy, > > Thanks alot for your help! > > Considering scenario 2, see my comments below. > >>> Scenario 2: >>> Consider that both hosts support RFC5061. Is the following >>> sequence of >>> events correct? >>> 1) C1 sends INIT to S1 >>> 2) S1 receives the request, but prefers to use interface S2 >>> 3) S2 sends INIT ACK + ADDRESS PARAMETERS S2,S1 + SET PRIMARY >>> ADDRESS >>> S2 to C1 >>> 4) interface S1 becomes unreachable (due to some network event) >>> 5) C1 sends COOKIE ECHO + HEARTBEAT to S2 (because S2 is >>> UNCONFIRMED?) >>> 6) S2 sends COOKIE ACK + HEARTBEAT ACK to C1 >>> 7) connection ESTABLISHED >> >> When S2 sends the INIT it is not legal for it to bundle a >> Set-Primary in it. The INIT and INIT-ACK chunks are specifically >> prohibited from having any other chunks bundled with them. >> >> S2 could send the INIT-ACK (remember it has no state either)... and >> when the cookie arrives it could send >> >> >> COOKIE-ACK, SET-PRIMARY. >> > > I think I must have misunderstood RFC5061 in this case... The last > paragraph in Section 4.2.4 reads: > "Valid Chunk Appearance > > The Set Primary IP Address parameter may appear in the ASCONF, the > INIT, or the INIT-ACK Chunk Type. The inclusion of this parameter > in > the INIT or INIT-ACK can be used to indicate an initial preference > of > primary address." > > How should I interpret this paragraph? Sorry, my bad, I was thinking in terms of bundling an ASCONF. Of course the sender of an INIT or INIT-ACK can validly include a SET-PRIMARY parameter in the INIT/INIT-ACK. But as it states in RFC5061 the set-primary is a "suggestion", the receiver of a set primary is NEVER under any obligation to do it. They should, at least try, if they can. However when a set-primary is done on an UNCONFIRMED address then the receiver MUST NOT honor it since it violates a MUST NOT in the 4960 base spec... i.e. you cannot send data to a unconfirmed address. I suppose if the implementation wanted, it could hold a "flag" if you will, on the destination and AFTER it is confirmed change that to be the primary.. but this of course is an implementation detail. R > > > Best regards, > > Tim > ----- Randall Stewart randall@lakerest.net From lizrogers@alfresco-holidays.com Sun Jan 4 09:18:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CB73A6A7E for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:18:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SytLH0PdwuU3 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201-92-13-25.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-92-13-25.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.92.13.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 377D53A687C for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:18:51 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090104171852.377D53A687C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:18:51 -0800 (PST) About this mailing:
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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From maejima-k@ambia.co.jp Sun Jan 4 12:01:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEF63A6972 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:01:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -48.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-48.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HELO_EQ_NE_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HOST_EQ_NE_JP=2.599, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdjPKVcfFO2P for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from p4057-ipbf902hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp (p4057-ipbf902hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp [58.91.31.57]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C5E473A689C for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:01:22 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Is your cell phone always busy? 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From mavoice@ama-assn.org Mon Jan 5 11:06:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF383A69F6 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:06:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -35.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9FIYeWLbnNj7 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhe201062232217.res-com.wayinternet.com.br (bhe201062232217.res-com.wayinternet.com.br [201.62.232.217]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C981E3A6937 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:06:40 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: failure notice From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090105190640.C981E3A6937@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:06:40 -0800 (PST) About this mailing:
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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From jedavi@accentdisplay.com Mon Jan 5 17:25:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08BD3A68DA for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9KV43T6eMPre for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-124-120-9-19.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-124-120-0-25.revip2.asianet.co.th [124.120.0.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B98A43A65A5 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:25:43 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: We need you here, now! From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090106012543.B98A43A65A5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:25:43 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view as a webpage. From jhenry@3cis.biz Mon Jan 5 21:36:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB86928C106 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:36:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -41.915 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-41.915 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zkm4433BVkzk for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ameripath.com (unknown [92.113.84.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ED70528C10A for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:36:10 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order 61802 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090106053611.ED70528C10A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:36:10 -0800 (PST)
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From jjbndpv@amico-jp.com Wed Jan 7 06:36:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA41F3A680F for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:36:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.208 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aqr+pGTFNO33 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from 12.120.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es (12.121.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es [87.221.121.12]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 53D223A6805 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:36:51 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Where are you, man? From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090107143652.53D223A6805@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:36:51 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view as a webpage. From jxjw@aisidi.com.cn Wed Jan 7 06:43:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20F73A694D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:43:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, FH_HOST_EQ_DYNAMICIP=2.177, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b9CGTAX2GjHA for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 242.Red-83-60-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net (242.Red-83-60-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.60.197.242]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B7F703A6921 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:43:18 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090107144320.B7F703A6921@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:43:18 -0800 (PST) About this mailing:
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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 07:24:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B934A3A69B6; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:24:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530EA3A69B6 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:24:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EE6q0dCQuomz for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1t0026.austin.hp.com (g1t0026.austin.hp.com [15.216.28.33]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C4F3A6877 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com (g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com [15.192.0.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by g1t0026.austin.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 373DBC06B; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:23:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.98.100] (pool-71-255-130-196.cncdnh.east.verizon.net [71.255.130.196]) by g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8C70110026; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:23:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4964C8FF.9080103@hp.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:23:43 -0500 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart References: <378D168A-A299-4798-BF35-F97AD254BAE7@lurchi.franken.de> <49266BB0.8070908@sun.com> <52970.72.78.222.225.1227296961.squirrel@webmail.eecis.udel.edu> <492A7020.6020208@sun.com> <8A3B5057-3D34-415B-92C5-0EB0DE300131@lakerest.net> <492A928E.4070208@sun.com> <492ADE24.9080007@sun.com> <492B7A5D.3090107@sun.com> <20081125045620.GA14604@openss7.org> <178E7662-4128-4F6F-BFD6-3F51B7FC3B48@lurchi.franken.de> <492C1DC2.4060604@sun.com> <285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de> <320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net> In-Reply-To: <320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , tsvwg Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] SCTP support for Solaris X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Randall Stewart wrote: > Sorry for seeing this so late :-( > > > On Nov 25, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Michael Tüxen wrote: > >>> >> So the idea is to be able to be able to provide a some cmghdr >> structure, each one for >> - The PPID >> - The stream id >> - Sending ordered/unordered >> - the PR-SCTP policy >> - the PR-SCTP value >> - the SCTP-AUTH keyid >> - the flags (from the sndrcv info flags) >> - the context >> - and a couple more that I forgot... >> >> The experience I had is that people avoid using the the >> cmghdr stuff... That is why we added sctp_sendmsg() which >> was just a wrapper added to handle the cmghdr stuff.. > > > I tend to agree with you here Michael. I have taught > quite a few classes on the SCTP socket API.. where you > get blood curdling screams, groans and moans is when you > try to get folks to use the cmsg stuff. Its real ugly > and quite awkward to use. Most folks just plain do not > want to use it. > > No matter what we do, I think having something simple > to use is far better. Even if that means wrapping a library > call to work with the cmsg headers (like lk-sctp does). > > R > Then we'll just have to state that sctp_sendmsg() can not be used when any new extension that would require additional parameters to be passed down since it can't really handle them without an API change. One such extension that recently came up during implementation is the new partial reliability policy stuff. Currently, sctp_sendmsg can take a pr_value, allowing it to specify the value as applied to a given policy, but there is no documented way to specify the policy. Thus one could preserve the old behavior of defaulting to timeout policy, or one could hack something in an non-interoperable manner using flags or something else. As it stands right now, sctp_sendmsg() is underspecified wrt to PR policy. -vlad From kellyvo@almozoon.com Wed Jan 7 08:52:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F8B3A6A78 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:52:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -35.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nsbkxCf7Ur9G for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ADSL-TPLUS-15-233.intnet.mu (ADSL-TPLUS-15-212.intnet.mu [202.123.15.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D2EE23A67E9 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:52:40 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 77524 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090107165242.D2EE23A67E9@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:52:40 -0800 (PST)
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From oscar.solano@aeromar.co.cr Wed Jan 7 19:26:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9603A69CC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:26:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -38.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-38.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.471, BAYES_60=1, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MnG9-tjJ+iKy for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from aluform.be (unknown [201.29.194.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6AB9D3A6993 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:26:50 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Non delivery report: 5.9.4 (Spam SLS/RBL) From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090108032652.6AB9D3A6993@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:26:50 -0800 (PST) About this mailing:
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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From m.mazzarellol@amb.com.br Thu Jan 8 03:42:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EE23A6A4A for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -27.081 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-27.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqxY01smXvns for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw-ham.riensch.de (gw-ham.riensch.de [213.128.153.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C34113A6A07 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:42:54 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 28665 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090108114254.C34113A6A07@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:42:54 -0800 (PST)
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From myachina@absolutecollection.com Thu Jan 8 08:04:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8163A6AEB for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:04:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.113 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYka62IrOVpB for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from 4dcsi.com (unknown [190.189.229.125]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F3443A68E0 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Returned mail: User unknown From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090108160403.9F3443A68E0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) About this mailing:
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Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 From mailman@amico.on.ca Thu Jan 8 10:20:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB693A6936 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:20:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.762 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.762 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M-W3Fh2nwcJJ for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:20:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-58-8-209-135.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-8-8-67.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.8.8.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB71E3A68F0 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:20:31 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order 35049 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090108182031.DB71E3A68F0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:20:31 -0800 (PST)
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From tsw61169@yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 11:47:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285733A6962 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:47:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -32.259 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.259 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_H_CANADIAN=0.5, GB_H_PHARMACY=1, GB_PHARMACY=1, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VKE9BXuCycbd for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta.email.webmd.com (adsl-89-134-18-63.monradsl.monornet.hu [89.134.18.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E18D43A67B6 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:47:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Return: allowed X-Mailer: CME-V6.5.4.3; MSN Message-Id: <20090108094740.3413.qmail@mta.email.webmd.com> From: "Doctor Romeo" To: tsvwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: RE: (Canadian Pharmacy Message) Wish to add more fire ino your bedroom life? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:47:52 -0800 (PST)
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From nolfe20663@amerireach.com Fri Jan 9 00:41:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EC63A67D8 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:41:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -32.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uhCtfEPRdAl7 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from alfadelta.com (unknown [194.228.15.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 40EFB3A6853 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:41:09 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Returned mail: unreachable recipients From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090109084110.40EFB3A6853@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:41:09 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view as a webpage. From oliviabarrett@0donnell.com Fri Jan 9 17:51:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526493A6B25 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:51:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -44.111 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-44.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7HcrqmSi78hf for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpc3-warr5-0-0-cust187.bagu.cable.ntl.com (cpc3-warr5-0-0-cust187.bagu.cable.ntl.com [86.5.36.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D47003A6985 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:51:16 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order 07235 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090110015116.D47003A6985@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:51:16 -0800 (PST)
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From koykkapcw@amrusa.com Sat Jan 10 02:53:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C26628C0D6 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -33.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cpa8eVKqStx9 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ajsbbs.com (unknown [85.106.228.76]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F1F323A681A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:54 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order 22378 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090110105355.F1F323A681A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:54 -0800 (PST)
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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 10 08:12:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B003A6908; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10FA28C108; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.412 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.412 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.187, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TG1JDA-nLA1s; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2F03A6A98; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWOsMtOTgoJ3zs7flPjce/tIyWPfMog5@postini.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:08:35 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.71) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:22 -0800 Received: from p-emsmtp03.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.54]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:22 -0800 Received: from emailwf1.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.33]) by p-emsmtp03.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:21 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:04:18 -0500 Message-ID: <3525C9833C09ED418C6FD6CD9514668C05660B4F@emailwf1.jnpr.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) to Proposed Standard Thread-Index: AclwMIRsBs6pUzOtTVCjiAYG5vI6zwAABnxA From: Ross Callon To: , , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2009 19:04:21.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[95523170:01C97031] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:12:30 -0800 Cc: Ross Callon , Magnus Westerlund , David Ward Subject: [Tsvwg] FW: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org FYI. This may be of interest to the CCAMP, MPLS, PCE and TSVWG WGs. thanks, Ross -----Original Message----- From: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of The IESG Sent: 06 January 2009 13:56 To: IETF-Announce Subject: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) to Proposed Standard=20 The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider the following document: - 'Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol=20 Specifications ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-02-03. Exceptionally,=20 comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please=20 retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-07.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTag= =3D 17681&rfc_flag=3D0 _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From liuzhihong@acebj.com Sat Jan 10 16:33:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115153A6A8A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:33:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.327 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.327 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXLXkYytWsNy for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:33:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from abs-cbn.com (unknown [91.193.35.137]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D277D3A6A87 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:32:47 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Order status 28350 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090111003258.D277D3A6A87@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:32:47 -0800 (PST)
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From laurent.hopsorts@afaq.org Sun Jan 11 20:29:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3FE28C29C for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -25.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U3JjTji5-8Yi for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from 88.204.203.249.metro.online.kz (88.204.203.249.metro.online.kz [88.204.203.249]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 27CB03A6908 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:15 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 28907 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090112042917.27CB03A6908@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:15 -0800 (PST)
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From kukcxoeytykih@ais-uk.org Tue Jan 13 03:21:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E2D3A681A for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -51.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-51.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l05bKhC3iiAK for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from afco.demon.co.uk (unknown [122.164.76.254]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 56E853A67E5 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order 47313 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090113112101.56E853A67E5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:00 -0800 (PST)
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From orae@akumar.com Tue Jan 13 07:07:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E458D3A67B1 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.508 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.508 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n6vy84ZOYYKi for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from host222-12-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it (host222-12-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it [87.16.12.222]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1718228C0F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:16 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 97410 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090113150717.1718228C0F0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:16 -0800 (PST)

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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 00:22:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1363A6839; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C6A3A67D6 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.694 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.694 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.584, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M4YjrRZcgDIh for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 98A303A6839 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 Jan 2009 08:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO 4FIL42860) [192.100.124.156] by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 15 Jan 2009 09:22:29 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18REMcGqB4R2IiSci2Hfr60GuGkRwBTrhdB8nEmPv +kwmjUOrMOjL2n From: "Hannes Tschofenig" To: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:24:21 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: Acl26qph0wBcJ3qqQWeFAXcqVAXFMQ== X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.59 Subject: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org By coincident I ran into the following draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Section 2.3 says: " On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, NSIS has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not required. " and the IANA consideration section says: " This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the option of the interconnected networks. " The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially requires RSVP to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not correct. To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would do the job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) Ciao Hannes From novelty-hu@aldeasamexico.com Thu Jan 15 02:48:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C283A67E6 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.968 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N476twgH33T9 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from host46-155-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it (host46-155-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it [87.22.155.46]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BCBEF3A6877 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:26 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 33848 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090115104827.BCBEF3A6877@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:26 -0800 (PST)
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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 05:00:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526FE28C23D; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E867E28C23D for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chvvJbKBuxdz for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E97D28C117 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56375 helo=[205.10.80.216]) by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNRp5-0000Yh-Rx; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:59:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ken carlberg Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:59:48 -0300 To: "Hannes Tschofenig" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such as" from the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression of "essentially requires". The cited text makes an observation about the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols. If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text. cheers, -ken On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > By coincident I ran into the following draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 > > Section 2.3 says: > > " > On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for > authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that > clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, > NSIS > has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to > unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the > relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the > UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed > between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not > required. > " > > and the IANA consideration section says: > > " > This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as > RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network > Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the > option > of the interconnected networks. > " > > The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially requires > RSVP to be > implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not correct. > > To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that > would do the > job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) > > Ciao > Hannes > From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 05:04:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6AA28C10B; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3EE28C10B for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CbNfmyYclSFy for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [217.115.75.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E9828C101 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FD4PGL029440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FD4Puh021415; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100 Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:04:58 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Thread-Index: Acl3EYcoGMD+BkgeT4mcqBQuzvAf4QAADQyw References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" To: "ext ken carlberg" , "Hannes Tschofenig" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 13:04:25.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA65FA40:01C97711] Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Ken,=20 I would like the document not to talk about this at all.=20 I don't know why it has to.=20 Ciao Hannes=20 >-----Original Message----- >From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org]=20 >On Behalf Of ext ken carlberg >Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00 >To: Hannes Tschofenig >Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 > >I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such=20 >as" from the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving=20 >an impression of "essentially requires". The cited text makes=20 >an observation about the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption=20 >that the authors choose to discuss the topic within the=20 >context of IETF signaling protocols. > >If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP)=20 >with the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to=20 >describe this suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text. > >cheers, > >-ken > > >On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > >> By coincident I ran into the following draft: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >> >> Section 2.3 says: >> >> " >> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we=20 >note that >> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20 >> NSIS >> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to >> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the >> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the >> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed >> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20 >> required. >> " >> >> and the IANA consideration section says: >> >> " >> This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as >> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20 >> option >> of the interconnected networks. >> " >> >> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially=20 >requires RSVP=20 >> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20 >> correct. >> >> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would=20 >> do the >> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> > > From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 05:13:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4168128C200; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B196828C200 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MHaT7ycdgZI7 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F1528C101 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56487 helo=[205.10.80.216]) by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNS2C-0003G3-G0; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:13:20 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ken carlberg Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:13:21 -0300 To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why? the cited text presents context and recommendations with what we have on hand now, but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST. if someone else comes along later and defines a better widget, or simply another way of accomplishing the fundamental objectives of the draft with a different signaling protocol....great, and please let's encourage them to tell "us" how. cheers, -ken On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Hi Ken, > > I would like the document not to talk about this at all. > I don't know why it has to. > > Ciao > Hannes > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of ext ken carlberg >> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00 >> To: Hannes Tschofenig >> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >> >> I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such >> as" from the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving >> an impression of "essentially requires". The cited text makes >> an observation about the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption >> that the authors choose to discuss the topic within the >> context of IETF signaling protocols. >> >> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) >> with the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to >> describe this suggested interaction in more detail with suggested >> text. >> >> cheers, >> >> -ken >> >> >> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> >>> By coincident I ran into the following draft: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime- >>> dscp-05 >>> >>> Section 2.3 says: >>> >>> " >>> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >>> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we >> note that >>> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, >>> NSIS >>> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is >>> limited to >>> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the >>> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the >>> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed >>> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not >>> required. >>> " >>> >>> and the IANA consideration section says: >>> >>> " >>> This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as >>> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >>> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the >>> option >>> of the interconnected networks. >>> " >>> >>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially >> requires RSVP >>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not >>> correct. >>> >>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would >>> do the >>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) >>> >>> Ciao >>> Hannes >>> >> >> From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 05:19:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49FA3A68D8; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A853A3A68D8 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.967, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fq+GZHGg0fOH for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [217.115.75.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F803A679C for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FDJ2bx017625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FDJ2RZ014797; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100 Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:19:35 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Thread-Index: Acl3ExH+cU+exuk+QJCCKmU/iXDz2gAAEdKA References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" To: "ext ken carlberg" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 13:19:02.0252 (UTC) FILETIME=[D53EDAC0:01C97713] Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the required functionality does not reflect reality.=20 If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When protocols are discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only RSVP and NSIS.=20 Does this make sense to you?=20 Ciao Hannes >-----Original Message----- >From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]=20 >Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13 >To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) >Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 > >ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why? the cited=20 >text presents context and recommendations with what we have on=20 >hand now, but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST. if=20 >someone else comes along later and defines a better widget, or=20 >simply another way of accomplishing the fundamental objectives=20 >of the draft with a different signaling protocol....great, and=20 >please let's encourage them to tell "us" how. > >cheers, > >-ken > > >On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -=20 >FI/Espoo) wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> >> I would like the document not to talk about this at all. >> I don't know why it has to. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg >>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00 >>> To: Hannes Tschofenig >>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >>> >>> I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such=20 >as" from=20 >>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression=20 >>> of "essentially requires". The cited text makes an=20 >observation about=20 >>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to=20 >>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols. >>> >>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with=20 >>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this=20 >>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> -ken >>> >>> >>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>> >>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft: >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime- >>>> dscp-05 >>>> >>>> Section 2.3 says: >>>> >>>> " >>>> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >>>> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we >>> note that >>>> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth=20 >brokers,=20 >>>> NSIS >>>> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited=20 >>>> to >>>> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized=20 >and has the >>>> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of=20 >RSVP at the >>>> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed >>>> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20 >>>> required. >>>> " >>>> >>>> and the IANA consideration section says: >>>> >>>> " >>>> This traffic class requires the use of capacity=20 >admission such as >>>> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >>>> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20 >>>> option >>>> of the interconnected networks. >>>> " >>>> >>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially >>> requires RSVP >>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20 >>>> correct. >>>> >>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism=20 >that would=20 >>>> do the >>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) >>>> >>>> Ciao >>>> Hannes >>>> >>> >>> > > From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 05:34:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38AB28C200; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AD928C200 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8RrD6v1P-gE4 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCB928C133 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56646 helo=[205.10.80.216]) by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNSMe-0003hB-Vy; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:34:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ken carlberg Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:34:29 -0300 To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org no, and this discussion is becoming circular. I go back to the preciseness of the language in the text of the draft that discusses RSVP as a recommendation, not a requirement in the form of a must. to follow your line of reasoning, we would need to go back to all protocols that interact with SIP and say "please consider other protocols like H.323, and perform the interaction in the following way (blah, blah, blah)", since there are others means to signal the establishment of sessions. the two of us seem to agree to disagree. kindest regards, -ken On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: > Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the > required functionality does not reflect reality. > If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When protocols are > discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only RSVP and > NSIS. > > Does this make sense to you? > > Ciao > Hannes > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk] >> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13 >> To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) >> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >> >> ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why? the cited >> text presents context and recommendations with what we have on >> hand now, but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST. if >> someone else comes along later and defines a better widget, or >> simply another way of accomplishing the fundamental objectives >> of the draft with a different signaling protocol....great, and >> please let's encourage them to tell "us" how. >> >> cheers, >> >> -ken >> >> >> On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - >> FI/Espoo) wrote: >> >>> Hi Ken, >>> >>> I would like the document not to talk about this at all. >>> I don't know why it has to. >>> >>> Ciao >>> Hannes >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg >>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00 >>>> To: Hannes Tschofenig >>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >>>> >>>> I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such >> as" from >>>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression >>>> of "essentially requires". The cited text makes an >> observation about >>>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to >>>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols. >>>> >>>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with >>>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this >>>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> >>>> -ken >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>> >>>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft: >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime- >>>>> dscp-05 >>>>> >>>>> Section 2.3 says: >>>>> >>>>> " >>>>> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >>>>> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we >>>> note that >>>>> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth >> brokers, >>>>> NSIS >>>>> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited >>>>> to >>>>> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized >> and has the >>>>> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of >> RSVP at the >>>>> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be >>>>> discussed >>>>> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not >>>>> required. >>>>> " >>>>> >>>>> and the IANA consideration section says: >>>>> >>>>> " >>>>> This traffic class requires the use of capacity >> admission such as >>>>> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >>>>> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the >>>>> option >>>>> of the interconnected networks. >>>>> " >>>>> >>>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially >>>> requires RSVP >>>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not >>>>> correct. >>>>> >>>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism >> that would >>>>> do the >>>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) >>>>> >>>>> Ciao >>>>> Hannes >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 08:36:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47E03A6969; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F353A6962 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.051, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wOG6qSgfRmwy for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [217.115.75.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121123A68FF for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FGaI11021311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:18 +0100 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FGaIWD003721; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:18 +0100 Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:36:52 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Thread-Index: Acl3FgrhPI5wOOzqRJilBeBxB6jYzAAC34Jg References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" To: "ext ken carlberg" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 16:36:17.0878 (UTC) FILETIME=[63D40F60:01C9772F] Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Ken,=20 Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the document but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for change:=20 2.3. Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony Service Class It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service class. CHANGE PROPOSAL: " It is the belief of the working group that either PHB implementation described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service class. " REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not only the authors.=20 If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the preemption. If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive services, the application of different thresholds depending on call precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls are being refused. Routine and priority traffic can be admitted using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are admitted is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control plane, not the policing of the data plane. On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, NSIS has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not required. CHANGE PROPOSAL: " As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS resource request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the subscriber to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms are available for conveying the QoS information and also for performing the authentication and authorization. This document does not mandate a specific protocol to be used.=20 " REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant for this document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to accomplish the overall goal of this document.=20 5. Security Considerations A major requirement of this service is effective use of a signaling protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity, and assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority". This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script kiddies and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers. This goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said... A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to identity the user as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have said that there are authentication and authorization requirement but not necessarily regarding the membership.=20 4. IANA Considerations This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry. It implements the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at higher speeds. The recommended value for the code point is 101100, paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110. The code point should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT. This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the option of the interconnected networks. SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond what was said in the document. Ciao Hannes >-----Original Message----- >From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]=20 >Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:34 >To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) >Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 > >no, and this discussion is becoming circular. I go back to=20 >the preciseness of the language in the text of the draft that=20 >discusses RSVP as a recommendation, not a requirement in the=20 >form of a must. > >to follow your line of reasoning, we would need to go back to=20 >all protocols that interact with SIP and say "please consider=20 >other protocols like H.323, and perform the interaction in the=20 >following way (blah, blah, blah)", since there are others=20 >means to signal the establishment of sessions. > >the two of us seem to agree to disagree. > >kindest regards, > >-ken > > >On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -=20 >FI/Espoo) wrote: > >> Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the=20 >> required functionality does not reflect reality. >> If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When=20 >protocols are=20 >> discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only=20 >RSVP and=20 >> NSIS. >> >> Does this make sense to you? >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk] >>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13 >>> To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) >>> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >>> >>> ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why? the cited text=20 >>> presents context and recommendations with what we have on hand now,=20 >>> but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST. if someone else comes=20 >>> along later and defines a better widget, or simply another way of=20 >>> accomplishing the fundamental objectives of the draft with a=20 >>> different signaling protocol....great, and please let's encourage=20 >>> them to tell "us" how. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> -ken >>> >>> >>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - >>> FI/Espoo) wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ken, >>>> >>>> I would like the document not to talk about this at all. >>>> I don't know why it has to. >>>> >>>> Ciao >>>> Hannes >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>>>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg >>>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00 >>>>> To: Hannes Tschofenig >>>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 >>>>> >>>>> I'm afraid you've lost me. The words "recommend" and "such >>> as" from >>>>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an=20 >impression=20 >>>>> of "essentially requires". The cited text makes an >>> observation about >>>>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors=20 >choose to=20 >>>>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols. >>>>> >>>>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx=20 >(3GPP) with=20 >>>>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this=20 >>>>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> >>>>> -ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft: >>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime- >>>>>> dscp-05 >>>>>> >>>>>> Section 2.3 says: >>>>>> >>>>>> " >>>>>> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >>>>>> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we >>>>> note that >>>>>> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth >>> brokers, >>>>>> NSIS >>>>>> has not at this time been finalized and in any event=20 >is limited=20 >>>>>> to >>>>>> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized >>> and has the >>>>>> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of >>> RSVP at the >>>>>> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be=20 >>>>>> discussed >>>>>> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20 >>>>>> required. >>>>>> " >>>>>> >>>>>> and the IANA consideration section says: >>>>>> >>>>>> " >>>>>> This traffic class requires the use of capacity >>> admission such as >>>>>> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >>>>>> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI=20 >is at the=20 >>>>>> option >>>>>> of the interconnected networks. >>>>>> " >>>>>> >>>>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially >>>>> requires RSVP >>>>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20 >>>>>> correct. >>>>>> >>>>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism >>> that would >>>>>> do the >>>>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP) >>>>>> >>>>>> Ciao >>>>>> Hannes >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > > From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 12:40:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE603A6848; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28F63A6842 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id prddqQHhEx81 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353B13A6848 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:57479 helo=[205.10.80.216]) by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNZ0m-0003wd-Sk; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:40:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ken carlberg Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:40:25 -0300 To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hannes, I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not convinced by your arguments :-)....more below... > Hi Ken, > > Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the > document > but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for change: > > > 2.3. Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony > Service > Class > > It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation > described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity > admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to > provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service > class. > > > CHANGE PROPOSAL: > " > It is the belief of the working group that either PHB > implementation > described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity > admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to > provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service > class. > " > > REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not only the > authors. fine and reasonable change from my perspective. > If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of > [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the preemption. > If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive > services, the application of different thresholds depending on call > precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call > completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls > are being refused. Routine and priority traffic can be admitted > using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are > admitted > is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control > plane, > not the policing of the data plane. > > On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for > authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that > clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, > NSIS > has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to > unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the > relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the > UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed > between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not > required. > > CHANGE PROPOSAL: > > " > As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS resource > request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the > subscriber > to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms are available > for conveying the QoS information and also for performing the > authentication and authorization. This document does not mandate a > specific protocol to be used. > " > > REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant for this > document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to > accomplish the overall goal of this document. the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of capacity admission in your proposed text. And yes, take that out, and I have no qualms in removing references/text concerning NSIS and RSVP. But, capacity admission has to be there...its part of the foundation for the draft in the first place. While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose to use it above. For instance, I can configure filters for a CBQ router to alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus influence the QoS received by those flows, but that effort does not necessarily deal with capacity admission. > 5. Security Considerations > > A major requirement of this service is effective use of a signaling > protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user > either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity, > and > assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority". > > This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script > kiddies > and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if > policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers. > This > goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said... > > A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to identity the user > as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have > said > that there are authentication and authorization requirement but not > necessarily regarding the membership. I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the co- authors chime in on this. > 4. IANA Considerations > > This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF > traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the > "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry. It implements > the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds > and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at > higher speeds. The recommended value for the code point is 101100, > paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110. The code point > should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT. > > This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as > RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network > Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the > option > of the interconnected networks. > > SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond > what was said in the document. let's not for now :-) cheers, -ken From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 12:46:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFF73A6970; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B353A6970 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.968, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cRfhjlVob4lz for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [217.115.75.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBF73A68C1 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FKk4k9004044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0FKk49d011626; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100 Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:46:35 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Thread-Index: Acl3UYHHveW14oZXSp6ZaQj2iJs7UgAAFYjw References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net> <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk> <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk> <59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" To: "ext ken carlberg" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 20:46:04.0224 (UTC) FILETIME=[4862FC00:01C97752] Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Ken,=20 See below.=20 >Hannes, > >I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not=20 >convinced by your arguments :-)....more below... > >> Hi Ken, >> >> Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the=20 >> document but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for=20 >> change: >> >> >> 2.3. Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony=20 >> Service >> Class >> >> It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation >> described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA=20 >and capacity >> admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are=20 >sufficient to >> provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service >> class. >> >> >> CHANGE PROPOSAL: >> " >> It is the belief of the working group that either PHB=20 >> implementation >> described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA=20 >and capacity >> admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are=20 >sufficient to >> provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service >> class. >> " >> >> REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not=20 >only the=20 >> authors. > >fine and reasonable change from my perspective. > >> If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of >> [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the=20 >preemption. >> If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive >> services, the application of different thresholds=20 >depending on call >> precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call >> completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls >> are being refused. Routine and priority traffic can be admitted >> using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are=20 >> admitted >> is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control=20 >> plane, >> not the policing of the data plane. >> >> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we=20 >note that >> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20 >> NSIS >> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to >> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the >> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the >> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed >> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20 >> required. >> >> CHANGE PROPOSAL: >> >> " >> As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS=20 >resource=20 >> request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the=20 >> subscriber to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms=20 >> are available for conveying the QoS information and also for=20 >> performing the authentication and authorization. This document does=20 >> not mandate a specific protocol to be used. >> " >> >> REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant=20 >for this=20 >> document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to=20 >> accomplish the overall goal of this document. > >the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of=20 >capacity admission in your proposed text. And yes, take that=20 >out, and I have no qualms in removing references/text=20 >concerning NSIS and RSVP. But, capacity admission has to be=20 >there...its part of the foundation for the draft in the first place. That's in the previous paragraph. I believe that there is no reason to repeat it again.=20 > >While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity=20 >admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose=20 >to use it above. For instance, I can configure filters for a=20 >CBQ router to alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus=20 >influence the QoS received by those flows, but that effort=20 >does not necessarily deal with capacity admission. That's true. Signaling the QoS parameters does not imply capacity admission control.=20 However, I believe it is covered by the previous paragraph already.=20 > >> 5. Security Considerations >> >> A major requirement of this service is effective use of a=20 >signaling >> protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user >> either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity,=20 >> and >> assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority". >> >> This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script=20 >> kiddies >> and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if >> policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers. =20 >> This >> goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said... >> >> A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to=20 >identity the user=20 >> as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have=20 >> said that there are authentication and authorization requirement but=20 >> not necessarily regarding the membership. > >I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the=20 >co- authors chime in on this. > >> 4. IANA Considerations >> >> This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF >> traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the >> "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry. It=20 >implements >> the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds >> and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at >> higher speeds. The recommended value for the code point=20 >is 101100, >> paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110. The code point >> should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT. >> >> This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as >> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20 >> option >> of the interconnected networks. >> >> SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond=20 >> what was said in the document. > >let's not for now :-) Then, I suggest to remove the RSVP part.=20 Ciao Hannes > >cheers, > >-ken > > From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 14:08:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0833028C108; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C08728C108 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AA6RlKa17jeo for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FE828C0F4 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:36 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,272,1231131600"; d="scan'208";a="157982944" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 15 Jan 2009 17:08:20 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 300815ANEX3.global.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.140]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 15 Jan 2009 17:08:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:09:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3036F4A94122BD4AAAAB441FE888452801605C26@300815ANEX3.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Thread-Index: Acl3UYHHveW14oZXSp6ZaQj2iJs7UgAAFYjwAAIR06A= References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net><6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk><631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk><59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk> From: "Rodrig, Benny (Benny)" To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" , "ext ken carlberg" Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Ken, Hannes's point does make sense to me, that the language of the 2nd paragraph of section 2.3 is rather strong and can give the wrong impression that RSVP in particular, and not just good capacity admission in general, is necessary for this service. =20 Instead, the 1st paragraph of section 2.3 can perhaps be changed along the lines of the following text: Support for an Admitted Telephony service class requires, at the UNI, adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures as described in Section 2.2. This document does not mandate a specific protocol to be used. It is the belief of the working group that either PHB implementation described in Section 2.1 is sufficient to provide the services required, if coupled with such adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not required. Benny=20 -----Original Message----- From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:47 PM To: ext ken carlberg Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05 Hi Ken,=20 See below.=20 >Hannes, > >I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not convinced by=20 >your arguments :-)....more below... > >> Hi Ken, >> >> Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the=20 >> document but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for >> change: >> >> >> 2.3. Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony=20 >> Service >> Class >> >> It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation >> described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA >and capacity >> admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are >sufficient to >> provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service >> class. >> >> >> CHANGE PROPOSAL: >> " >> It is the belief of the working group that either PHB=20 >> implementation >> described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA >and capacity >> admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are >sufficient to >> provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service >> class. >> " >> >> REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not >only the >> authors. > >fine and reasonable change from my perspective. > >> If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of >> [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the >preemption. >> If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive >> services, the application of different thresholds >depending on call >> precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call >> completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls >> are being refused. Routine and priority traffic can be admitted >> using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are=20 >> admitted >> is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control=20 >> plane, >> not the policing of the data plane. >> >> On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for >> authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we >note that >> clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20 >> NSIS >> has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to >> unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the >> relevant services. We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the >> UNI. Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed >> between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20 >> required. >> >> CHANGE PROPOSAL: >> >> " >> As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS >resource >> request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the=20 >> subscriber to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms=20 >> are available for conveying the QoS information and also for=20 >> performing the authentication and authorization. This document does=20 >> not mandate a specific protocol to be used. >> " >> >> REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant >for this >> document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to=20 >> accomplish the overall goal of this document. > >the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of capacity >admission in your proposed text. And yes, take that out, and I have no >qualms in removing references/text concerning NSIS and RSVP. But,=20 >capacity admission has to be there...its part of the foundation for the >draft in the first place. That's in the previous paragraph. I believe that there is no reason to repeat it again.=20 > >While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity=20 >admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose to use=20 >it above. For instance, I can configure filters for a CBQ router to=20 >alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus influence the QoS=20 >received by those flows, but that effort does not necessarily deal with >capacity admission. That's true. Signaling the QoS parameters does not imply capacity admission control.=20 However, I believe it is covered by the previous paragraph already.=20 > >> 5. Security Considerations >> >> A major requirement of this service is effective use of a >signaling >> protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user >> either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity,=20 >> and >> assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority". >> >> This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script=20 >> kiddies >> and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if >> policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers. =20 >> This >> goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said... >> >> A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to >identity the user >> as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have=20 >> said that there are authentication and authorization requirement but=20 >> not necessarily regarding the membership. > >I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the >co- authors chime in on this. > >> 4. IANA Considerations >> >> This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF >> traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the >> "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry. It >implements >> the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds >> and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at >> higher speeds. The recommended value for the code point >is 101100, >> paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110. The code point >> should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT. >> >> This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as >> RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network >> Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20 >> option >> of the interconnected networks. >> >> SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond=20 >> what was said in the document. > >let's not for now :-) Then, I suggest to remove the RSVP part.=20 Ciao Hannes > >cheers, > >-ken > > From lements@alfa.com Thu Jan 15 17:48:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA4B3A67AB for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.419 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN0b=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PdNxBa6Jur1X for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 125-230-66-45.dynamic.hinet.net (125-230-66-45.dynamic.hinet.net [125.230.66.45]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 34F6C3A63EC for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:45 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: News from Microsoft From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090116014846.34F6C3A63EC@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:45 -0800 (PST)
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From mullerqluzcolleague@ama-assn.org Fri Jan 16 18:30:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC2A3A6A7E for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QcvYXxCDZ8OI for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from agemont.it (unknown [189.121.76.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C6093A69DD for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:14 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: News from Microsoft From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090117023018.1C6093A69DD@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:14 -0800 (PST)
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From lcooleyh@alperservices.com Fri Jan 16 22:21:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015893A6820 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:21:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.139 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.139 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tYBC+wK0UXdm for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-58-9-16-30.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-9-16-30.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.9.16.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6AF33A6843 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:20:59 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Order status 32311 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090117062059.E6AF33A6843@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:20:59 -0800 (PST)
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From oorsteppedstraggliest@abacusinfo.com Sat Jan 17 11:13:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FD73A69C2 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.113 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dxf2PjG+NreS for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from host86-151-179-122.range86-151.btcentralplus.com (host86-151-179-122.range86-151.btcentralplus.com [86.151.179.122]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BDB703A6813 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:48 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Pfizer Admin From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090117191348.BDB703A6813@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:48 -0800 (PST)
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From karenfnn@alsa-national.org Sat Jan 17 23:48:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CC23A6810 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.592 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.592 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vYMt4Hz0n-V7 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpc2-hatf2-0-0-cust511.lutn.cable.ntl.com (cpc2-hatf2-0-0-cust511.lutn.cable.ntl.com [82.10.78.0]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C9E03A67B3 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:06 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: SPECIAL OFFERS From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090118074807.2C9E03A67B3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:06 -0800 (PST)
January 16, 2009 | "SPECIAL OFFERS"-Pfizer Company!




Contact: Email Administrator, Pfizer World Headquarters 787 E. 42nd Street New York, NY 29322
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From jmwalsho@aliroo.com Sun Jan 18 05:48:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1DA3A685E for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7atm+MO4xVMG for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dslb-092-072-160-008.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-092-072-160-008.pools.arcor-ip.net [92.72.160.8]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C994A3A679C for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:49 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Pfizer Admin From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090118134849.C994A3A679C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:49 -0800 (PST)
January 16, 2009 | "SPECIAL OFFERS"-Pfizer Company!




Contact: Email Administrator, Pfizer World Headquarters 062 E. 42nd Street New York, NY 42208
® 2001-2009 Pfizer Inc. All rights reserved!
Pfizer is a licensee of the TRUSTe Privacy Program!, click here.

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From nabashir@altuwairqi.com Mon Jan 19 09:48:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD49E28C0F7 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6JHkC9aS8QBT for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201-25-182-170.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-25-182-170.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.25.182.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D8A693A698C for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:37 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Administrator From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090119174838.D8A693A698C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:37 -0800 (PST)
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From nutrition@africaonline.co.zw Mon Jan 19 13:24:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7B83A68AF for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.658 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BLUEYON=1.4, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ans6wD11Q41i for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 82-34-221-91.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk (82-34-221-91.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk [82.34.221.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F9873A6808 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:10 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: News from Microsoft From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090119212413.8F9873A6808@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:10 -0800 (PST)
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From kb49er8@alphawest.com.au Mon Jan 19 16:01:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03DA3A67DF for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.965 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UfWHwUzgvcYr for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from 189-54-18-65-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br (189-54-18-65-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br [189.54.18.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 174BE28C19E for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:08 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message 50175 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090120000109.174BE28C19E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:08 -0800 (PST)
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From jconel@aiu.edu Mon Jan 19 18:15:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915C53A6A78 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -40.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id onKen0Lz4O5j for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from h238.59.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net (h238.59.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net [75.91.59.238]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 16E813A698E for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:21 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090120021523.16E813A698E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:21 -0800 (PST)
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From joseph@allends.com Wed Jan 21 10:12:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE09F3A69BB for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.691 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.691 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RP50qwfSAHwT for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 119-59-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net (119-59-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net [91.124.59.119]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DEEA3A69B7 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:27 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Message from President From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090121181229.2DEEA3A69B7@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:27 -0800 (PST)
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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 11:59:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274CC28C0E1; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A283A68CD; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.72 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.469, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MszsVJwyvudR; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from WOTAN.TR-Sys.de (gateway.tr-sys.de [213.178.172.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC053A6A47; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3) id AA294427876; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:56 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id UAA02570; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:51 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> To: iesg@ietf.org Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:51 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hello, I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS position in favor of an API specification in the draft. I have serious concerns with that position. For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely, and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on implementation experience. The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to support my observation that strong feedback from implementations and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance. Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first, giving the API time to evolve. Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not* add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage. This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future, a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might be considered. Kind regards, Alfred HÎnes. -- +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes | Alfred Hoenes Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys. | | Gerlinger Strasse 12 | Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18 | | D-71254 Ditzingen | E-Mail: ah@TR-Sys.de | +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ From mbusquet@almirall.es Wed Jan 21 13:16:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA173A6AC5 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -34.974 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-34.974 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DIALIN=3.384, HELO_EQ_DIP_DIALIN=1.573, HOST_EQ_DIP_TDIAL=2.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNA=1.231, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ROaqW0wEz2b for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from p5B21E540.dip.t-dialin.net (p5B21E540.dip.t-dialin.net [91.33.229.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 864963A679C for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:10 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: For Our Users: Exclusive Jan Offer From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090121211611.864963A679C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:10 -0800 (PST)

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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 15:11:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F7E3A68E4; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7E33A68E4 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6PpgCEDtOjGY for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from amailer.gwdg.de (amailer.gwdg.de [134.76.10.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046A13A687A for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from dsl54026089.pool.t-online.hu ([84.2.96.137] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by mailer.gwdg.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LPmDr-0002r5-Ck for tsvwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:10:59 +0100 Message-ID: <4977AC9E.7040401@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:15:42 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu Organization: University of Goettingen, Germany User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tsvwg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated: Id:xfu X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Subject: [Tsvwg] Call for papers: ICNP 2009 X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [Sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP.] CALL FOR PAPERS ICNP 2009 17th IEEE International Conference on Network Protocols October 13-16, 2009 Princeton, New Jersey, USA http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009 ICNP, the IEEE International Conference on Network Protocols is the premier conference covering all aspects of network protocols. ICNP will be held in its seventeenth year at Princeton, New Jersey from October 13-16th, 2009. Papers with significant research contributions on network protocols are solicited for submission. Papers related to all aspects of network protocols including design, implementation, analysis, performance and specification are relevant. Papers must not be previously published nor under review in any other conference or journal. Only original papers that have not been published previously or submitted for publication and under review by another conference or journal elsewhere can be submitted. Papers containing plagiarized material will be subject to the IEEE Plagiarism policy and will be rejected without review. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: • Protocol design, implementation, testing and analysis. • Measurement studies of protocol performance. • Protocols for wireless ad hoc and sensor networks. • Protocols for peer-to-peer networks. • Protocols for specific functions such as routing, flow/congestion control, network management. • Protocols for security, survivability and fault-tolerance. Papers must be directly relevant to protocols. Papers on general networking where protocols are only a secondary focus will be considered only if they are of exceptionally high quality. Papers will be subject to a double-blind review process. The identity of authors and referees will not be revealed to each other. To ensure blind reviewing, the authors' names and affiliations should not appear in the paper. Bibliographic references should protect the authors' anonymity. Papers should adhere to the IEEE format and should not be more than 10 pages. The font size should not be smaller than 10pt. Further instructions will be posted on the ICNP website (http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009). Authors of accepted papers will be expected to register for the conference and the paper must be presented at the conference in order for the paper to appear in the conference proceedings. Important Dates: Abstract Submission: April 10, 2009 8:59 P.M. EDT Paper Submission: April 17, 2009 8:59 P.M. EDT (Hard Deadline) Notification of Acceptance: July 28, 2009 Camera Ready Version Due: September 4, 2009 Organizing Committee: Executive Committee: David Lee Ohio State University, USA (Chair) Mostafa Ammar Georgia Tech. USA Ken Calvert University of Kentucky, USA Teruo Higashino Osaka University, Japan Raymond Miller University of Maryland, USA General Chairs: K.K. Ramakrishnan AT & T Labs Research, USA Henning Schulzrinne Columbia University, USA Program Chairs: Timothy Griffin University of Cambridge, U.K. Srikanth V. Krishnamurthy University of California, Riverside, USA For more details, visit the conference webpage: http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009 Regards, Xiaoming Fu IEEE ICNP'09 Publicity Chair From lob96jm@acrosscare.com Thu Jan 22 07:31:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096353A6829 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:31:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e8vJ0XY7RqlQ for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cm-93-156-73-195.telecable.es (cm-93-156-73-195.telecable.es [93.156.73.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FB493A6886 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:30:59 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Payment Accepted! 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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 22 09:19:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73B43A695B; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A86528C1E3; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.613 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.613 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v+ybsvir6+oe; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (sca-es-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.43.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553E83A6954; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n0MGs85T000970; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0KDV00501T1ENU00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.110.5] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0KDV004K0TM5IB90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:05 -0800 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> To: Alfred H?nes , iesg@ietf.org Message-id: <1FFDE2586B687DAD64427796@446E7922C82D299DB29D899F> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:07 -0800 Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org I absolutely agree with your position except the statement about the IETF refraining from APIs (we have done APIs such as getaddrinfo, advanced sockets, LDAP C API, GSSAPI, etc). If you read my discuss position, I am not asking for inclusion of the API in this spec, but I am asking for the specification to be revised to either: * Make it clear the intention is to have communication of this information between application protocol implementations and the TCP stack. * Have an informative reference to the forum where API development is occurring so such communication can become possible in real world implementations rather than prototypes. or * Make it clear this is implemented only in the TCP stack and applications are not involved. - Chris --On January 21, 2009 20:57:51 +0100 "Alfred H?nes" wrote: > Hello, > > I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the > I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS > position in favor of an API specification in the draft. > > I have serious concerns with that position. > > For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely, > and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on > implementation experience. > > The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to > support my observation that strong feedback from implementations > and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an > API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance. > > Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first, > giving the API time to evolve. Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not* > add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in > support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage. > > This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future, > a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might > be considered. > > > Kind regards, > Alfred H?nes. From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 22 09:19:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2190028C247; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4736428C246; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91ZbmvOjaauV; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (sca-es-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.43.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264FC3A68D0; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n0MHGNmo012591; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0KDV00D01UJQ0T00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.110.5] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0KDV0049HUN8IBB0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:20 -0800 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> To: Alfred H?nes , iesg@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:07 -0800 Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org I just saw version 11 show up, and I believe the new section 5 addressed my concern. I do hope those interested in getting this deployed in applications will engage the implementers to help avoid deployment of disjoint API variants among Posix/socket API systems. - Chris --On January 21, 2009 20:57:51 +0100 "Alfred H?nes" wrote: > Hello, > > I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the > I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS > position in favor of an API specification in the draft. > > I have serious concerns with that position. > > For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely, > and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on > implementation experience. > > The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to > support my observation that strong feedback from implementations > and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an > API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance. > > Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first, > giving the API time to evolve. Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not* > add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in > support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage. > > This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future, > a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might > be considered. > > Kind regards, > Alfred H?nes. From marpereira@abril.com.br Thu Jan 22 23:01:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3193A68D4 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -40.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.167, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qnHv0DDoeMsE for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from admin.spamcop.net (unknown [125.160.49.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A86FB3A6941 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:34 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RECOVERY: H14252 is OK From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090123070137.A86FB3A6941@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:34 -0800 (PST)
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From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 23 00:08:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B6E3A6A78; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7DD3A6A78 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.693 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.693 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.594, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bq7A-30BCW0T for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx03.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768853A6A6D for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id n0N87xhE019506 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:18 +0200 Received: from vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.30]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:13 +0200 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:13 +0200 Received: from leon.remlab.net (esdhcp041160.research.nokia.com [172.21.41.160]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id n0N88Bs7003226 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:12 +0200 From: "=?roman8?q?R=C5mi?= Denis-Courmont" Organization: Maemo Software - Nokia Devices R&D To: tsvwg@ietf.org Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:26 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.10; KDE/4.1.3; i686; ; ) References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> In-Reply-To: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="roman8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2009 08:08:13.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCFA2770:01C97D31] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org On Wednesday 21 January 2009 21:57:51 ext Alfred H=CEnes, you wrote: > I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the > I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS > position in favor of an API specification in the draft. > > I have serious concerns with that position. > > For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely, > and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, I humbly think that is a big mistake. There are quite a bunch of otherwise good IETF technologies that would=20 probably have gained much wider acceptance, had they had an Informational A= PI,=20 rather than none. I could start with various DNS record types, like SRV, NAPTR, etc -=20 implementors stick to A and AAAA because these two do have "easy to use"=20 standard APIs. IPsec is another example. It was "unprogrammable", at least until the very= =20 late BTNS working group. Compare to SSL/TLS, which though it has no "standa= rd"=20 API, can be layered easily atop sockets. Specifying APIs is perhaps not absolutely needed, but I feel concepting a s= ane=20 API, and outlining its architecture in an informational appendix should be = a=20 MUST (as applicable). =2D-=20 R=C5mi Denis-Courmont Maemo Software, Nokia Devices R&D From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 23 00:37:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A103A6920; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC3E3A6920; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAPB4ZwfPdX9; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:2060:40:1::123]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877C43A67FB; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:2060:40:2:219:e3ff:fe06:dc74] ([IPv6:2001:2060:40:2:219:e3ff:fe06:dc74]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n0N8aeKL015203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:41 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) Message-Id: <10C7DFB2-2F9A-4F6E-936A-FC76596BED9A@nokia.com> From: Lars Eggert To: Denis-Courmont Remi (Nokia-D/Helsinki) In-Reply-To: <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-44-989527136; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:37 +0200 References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (mail.fit.nokia.com [IPv6:2001:2060:40:1::123]); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:41 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.94.2/8894/Fri Jan 23 06:59:14 2009 on fit.nokia.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org --Apple-Mail-44-989527136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2009-1-23, at 10:08, Denis-Courmont Remi (Nokia-D/Helsinki) wrote: > There are quite a bunch of otherwise good IETF technologies that would > probably have gained much wider acceptance, had they had an > Informational API, > rather than none. FYI, the option does have a high-level API (Section 3). Lars PS: Also, this discussion should be on the TCPM list. --Apple-Mail-44-989527136 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEEi7WbMMKa2GLKFpQDaOBQEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MDgyMzE3NDMzOVoXDTA5MDgyMzE3NDMz OVowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAlwQVktJZCY89iU6jcW1XnZQN+aMgF2utCUT3H3ZKB5Jbet1SDWt0md/W 571bHjxtn9CfEJdochNL3l9f1WiJNdVbJ182557Ltx9SojqthpqtA0jKEqo2gqrf+raUj1demmo0 6ocsLqv046CrwidOp6k0RAfvkKPLhD4PD9Nk3oaZuxqBz1wY4u8Q83iWMArDeXiQxfNZnOBz5cDs VvVjTjitm3VANkbD02tNkwl5AHw7htde4yH8hIwlfzqsAtHBEah3HyOvs9b+gHg2pFz9eS+HuotY ZKycCweRs8NKXoCg+zAkVYi3zvZEH2VOuPlpMQMrB9+fLWg2UBsTeZ864wIDAQABozIwMDAgBgNV HREEGTAXgRVsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBub2tpYS5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUF AAOBgQBMdV2U+ryV5t3nuBFH19XKflodN6Bc60GBYHHY/Z0+Cl08Q75qzTt02IILBg+/YVh/fygb 6pFrOm1sFtLN7fENBfbO2VtpFjP2lGUgbXTVT5xGM6+MtqZiBI6LqexAeY6gsd/taoUfy9fZG42d ciBA9gSGlQjjWQyG8mb5HR8L9jCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgG A1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMg RGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9 fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+ uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMB Af8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3 dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgG A1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcP f6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH 2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8x ggMQMIIDDAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQ SLtZswwprYYsoWlANo4FATAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBbzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcB MBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wOTAxMjMwODM2MzdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTtXGiLOPrRNn69 RWxFawB48E4z2DCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEEi7WbMMKa2GLKFpQDaOBQEwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEEi7WbMMKa2GLKFpQDaOBQEw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAcvygqM+h9PhfC1tmjluJRzAQHzPh2OZIv6Yx/qMef1vj6ny3HOAw E5hojujGfDF0VEe8awJ1HqcvW5MoJJSri2G3cCEHgd1f/ZUwTVBVSI9yb0+YwDXHkYGN1cb+1THy r2KqsokJjcePX6/cyW5TBpODX2qKspm1JoAD+MduohSD2gMfQooxrS13CNfm53vlLnjVemK19ePJ giKEJDW3vlum8jgtDTYETbBmNfj+5LPMagUVt4HAF8+p0L5HYOyGHOe9KLKlulCS7idGoIZYTFYx lRWz4MOoaZmi053s7QQLbahXO6cvMq5B3T2uD1MVLD4GJXfmThNcdnE8nuPjvAAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-44-989527136-- From ml@aati-us.com Fri Jan 23 06:22:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D64E3A68D7 for ; 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From nferrand@absi.fr Thu Jan 29 03:17:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029A23A6A71 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LMua82iqtuW9 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from lns-bzn-24-82-64-132-5.adsl.proxad.net (lns-bzn-42-82-255-105-178.adsl.proxad.net [82.255.105.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 29A263A6A60 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:51 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Receipt for Your Payment From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090129111752.29A263A6A60@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:51 -0800 (PST)
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From lzoarenaceous@aandmelectronics.com Fri Jan 30 06:14:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F2228C28E for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.924 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.924 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HOST_EQ_STATICIP=1.511, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIeRgtf9zw4S for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 208.Red-88-7-5.staticIP.rima-tde.net (208.Red-88-7-5.staticIP.rima-tde.net [88.7.5.208]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8745C28C28F for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:22 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Invoice from itunes.com From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090130141424.8745C28C28F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:22 -0800 (PST)
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