From ayourtch@gmail.com Fri May 24 03:30:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BFC21F8624 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zF8vwLsDvBy1 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-x22f.google.com (mail-bk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AF721F8618 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-bk0-f47.google.com with SMTP id jg1so2408576bkc.34 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WSqVYWu+2KVAaXj72smktP7mDvJ3MS1Okv/EfcrUHq8=; b=cKCYlQ46e00BN+6ew0/f3yA5OF9wLub/+pVz6le7IjUl0fybDZd9EKvXbn1q/HOQBq GBwvfHJTCBgau9kjEnfVDuPUQku65NjH+phNnVA6kFEiK+D5Qqj7yYB72uEaMh/VCBdT Opjrx8stLbyyhXuGaTLbvHQ5wBHaloUrxL8uvk5fctlQIrV/Ez8k92dCguoAJ7rQP+kl M9yWuY7yyOLkeRIBiGRrafw+pB10C3oXbGsKkvuVG7lOBBIuZ4fVNDuxRpkQWz7spxGe /7HUreTJYkvLPSxP4WWmXyDTRCezmmjF99/e1BhLJescdad4E4M8K+s+OeZaZrsMJmZR nb0A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.185.70 with SMTP id cn6mr8940380bkb.100.1369391411725; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.114.143 with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2013 03:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:30:11 +0400 Message-ID: From: Andrew Yourtchenko To: sunset4@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301ee723a7b7c604dd74485d Cc: Owen DeLong Subject: [sunset4] New draft: draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:30:15 -0000 --20cf301ee723a7b7c604dd74485d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, we've posted a new draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 This could be an intermediate step before draft-perreault-sunset4-noipv4 is widely implemented, which is simple enough to implement and does not require coordination between the multiple parties on the network. would be interesting to hear your feedback. --a --20cf301ee723a7b7c604dd74485d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

we= 've posted a new draft:

http://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00

This could be an intermediate step before draft-perreau= lt-sunset4-noipv4 is widely implemented, which is simple enough to implemen= t and does not require coordination between the multiple parties on the net= work.

would be interesting to hear your feedback.
=

--a
--20cf301ee723a7b7c604dd74485d-- From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Fri May 24 04:24:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E35321F8733 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EnnixN46QZ9K for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5ED21F8619 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:3001:4012:f83b:cff2:9a05:711]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3C82403D9 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 07:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <519F4E00.90704@viagenie.ca> Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:24:48 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sunset4@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [sunset4] New draft: draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:24:36 -0000 Le 2013-05-24 12:30, Andrew Yourtchenko a écrit : > we've posted a new draft: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 > > This could be an intermediate step before draft-perreault-sunset4-noipv4 > is widely implemented, which is simple enough to implement and does not > require coordination between the multiple parties on the network. Interesting... Do you know what real-world OSes implement the "ARP for everything" behaviour by default? Thanks, Simon From tillmann@selfnet.de Fri May 24 04:57:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E2721F938E for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:57:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t6GoWUGqayB6 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wh-stuttgart.net (mail.wh-stuttgart.net [141.70.120.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A592521F93F4 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 04:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.wh-stuttgart.net (mail.wh-stuttgart.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wh-stuttgart.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 890F117FD0C for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 13:56:39 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:56:39 +0200 From: Tillmann Karras To: sunset4@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <519F4E00.90704@viagenie.ca> References: <519F4E00.90704@viagenie.ca> Message-ID: X-Sender: tillmann@selfnet.de User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.0 Subject: Re: [sunset4] New draft: draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:57:06 -0000 On 2013-05-24 13:24, Simon Perreault wrote: > Interesting... > > Do you know what real-world OSes implement the "ARP for everything" > behaviour by default? > > Thanks, > Simon RFC 3927 Introduction: "Microsoft Windows 98 (and later) and Mac OS 8.5 (and later) already support this capability." According to [0], it is enabled by default at least on Windows 98 through Server 2003 and I have seen these addresses on our network (apparently, not everyone considers them to be non-routable...) Regards, Tillmann [0] http://support.microsoft.com/kb/220874 PS: Sorry Simon, I forgot to use reply-to-all. From ayourtch@gmail.com Fri May 24 14:27:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835D311E8120 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZAL0SDAf8ZE5 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x232.google.com (mail-wi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806E311E811F for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f178.google.com with SMTP id hj6so140345wib.5 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cZkLHfNwkva5mnSgYm1ab/dlZsobvdnE7swU4/PnxQM=; b=TonkrMZLEYvS+wmf1lWBpbt43zn+uOYgs1AJgLHNIMG2pxOib4i8p3xYvcQ6v3saXb QL1dKDpamblI2d9T5K1lp58kgqct8R+/3tcIIEsnRWrK5vc5PEFC6Xi9bQRPgtz9nggG lKyuTUERbGIMXQlimv3ADdmRirINv6ZLXIcEDQ618+5a2p1HKEiocb806Fy7DR5kGpve qaGTvjyPMqXTfg0qzbndqc1EHvP8e2e8ba+F+pUL12FsQYnC5iYxTngTSkiHeXmjQFYc 5vivuWS2OlD7NwhvA64eQZe5GNKvbKT0kDGyArc4p11EwUTdRaNEcQk3pjZOQq0FYTyt T42A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.20.208 with SMTP id p16mr609591wie.59.1369430869250; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.116.137 with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2013 14:27:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <519F4E00.90704@viagenie.ca> Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 01:27:49 +0400 Message-ID: From: Andrew Yourtchenko To: Tillmann Karras Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec53f38c9819ad404dd7d7882 Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] New draft: draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 21:27:55 -0000 --bcaec53f38c9819ad404dd7d7882 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Tillmann Karras wrote: > On 2013-05-24 13:24, Simon Perreault wrote: > >> Interesting... >> >> Do you know what real-world OSes implement the "ARP for everything" >> behaviour by default? >> >> Thanks, >> Simon >> > > RFC 3927 Introduction: "Microsoft Windows 98 (and later) and Mac OS 8.5 > (and later) already support this capability." > > According to [0], it is enabled by default at least on Windows 98 through > Server 2003 and I have seen these addresses on our network (apparently, not > everyone considers them to be non-routable...) > > Originally I had noticed this behaviour on the iPhone/iPad on the networks I dealt with. I can also confirm MacOS X Lion for sure, but can not say much about Win* - but given the original RFC authorship, highly likely. Would be very interesting to know about Android/Linux behavior - I did not do much tests with it; though I had a feeling that Linux did not do "ARP for everything" - take the latter with about 30% worthiness, I did not spend any time to doublecheck before typing this, it can be incorrect/outdated. --a > Regards, > Tillmann > > > [0] http://support.microsoft.com/**kb/220874 > > PS: Sorry Simon, I forgot to use reply-to-all. > > ______________________________**_________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/sunset4 > --bcaec53f38c9819ad404dd7d7882 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Tillmann Karras = <tillmann@selfn= et.de> wrote:
On 2013-05-24 13:24, Simon= Perreault wrote:
Interesting...

Do you know what real-world OSes implement the "ARP for everything&quo= t;
behaviour by default?

Thanks,
Simon

RFC 3927 Introduction: "Microsoft Windows 98 (and later) and Mac OS 8.= 5 (and later) already support this capability."

According to [0], it is enabled by default at least on Windows 98 through S= erver 2003 and I have seen these addresses on our network (apparently, not = everyone considers them to be non-routable...)



Originally I had = noticed this behaviour on the iPhone/iPad on the networks I dealt with. I c= an also confirm MacOS X Lion for sure, but can not say much about Win* - bu= t given the original RFC authorship, highly likely.

Would be very interesting to know about And= roid/Linux behavior - I did not do much tests with it; though I had a feeli= ng that Linux did not do "ARP for everything" - take the latter w= ith about 30% worthiness, I did not spend any time to doublecheck before ty= ping this, it can be incorrect/outdated.

--a
=A0
Regards,
Tillmann


[0] ht= tp://support.microsoft.com/kb/220874

PS: Sorry Simon, I forgot to use reply-to-all.

_______________________________________________
sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

--bcaec53f38c9819ad404dd7d7882-- From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Mon May 27 01:51:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F2321F8FB6 for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 01:51:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNogc8dBL3ta for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 01:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A720021F8F2C for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 01:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:3001:4012:f83b:cff2:9a05:711]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 371CE403ED for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 04:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51A31EAE.6000605@viagenie.ca> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 10:51:58 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sunset4@ietf.org References: <519F4E00.90704@viagenie.ca> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [sunset4] New draft: draft-yourtchenko-ipv6-disable-ipv4-proxyarp-00 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 08:51:49 -0000 Le 2013-05-24 23:27, Andrew Yourtchenko a écrit : > Would be very interesting to know about Android/Linux behavior - I did > not do much tests with it; though I had a feeling that Linux did not do > "ARP for everything" - take the latter with about 30% worthiness, I did > not spend any time to doublecheck before typing this, it can be > incorrect/outdated. It's a per-distro thing. The distro I use most often (Fedora) does not use 169.254/16 addresses by default. I don't know about Android. This problem will be added to the gap analysis draft. Simon