From tks@ekonomhp.cz Mon Jan 01 01:49:11 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Gyt-00067i-Aq for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 01:49:11 -0500 Received: from [125.128.153.91] (helo=hyfaor) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Gyq-00084K-8P for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 01:49:11 -0500 Received: from [145.106.112.197] (helo=znhplb) by hyfaor with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1H06-0007Hy-QD; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:50:26 +0900 Message-ID: <4598AEE0.4000103@ekonomhp.cz> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:49:04 +0900 From: aftereffect User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: November 5 - 9 was the First Women's Olympics of Afghanistan, and featured competition for women and girls in Karate, Judo and Tae Kwon Do, as well as other sports. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------080905060904090202080201" X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 32a65c0bf5eb4ec26489239c7cdd0636 --------------080905060904090202080201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit plurality
Rather, standard organizations generally require participants to commit to licensing their patents that are necessarily infringed by the standard on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms. Is there a definitive source of business and operational data that everyone uses? How do you avoid the legal pitfalls? When might homeworking be a 'reasonable adjustment'? " changes your reaction from purely emotional to more curious and detached. No need to worry about the quality of the content.
There are two major categories of matrix mailing-acquisition and retention.
While that is definitely true about traditional branding, Web 2.
Vous publiez un blog ? The magic software looks after all that. A: I can't comment on that because Garmin is a publicly traded company. For much more on this topic, including a discussion of specific related technology solutions, check out the complete source article. Besides being easy to make, this recipe is low in carbohydrates. Then you're ready to go. MySpace for Mixed Martial Artists? And there's a myth that entrepreneurs have some sort of secret method that they can apply to venture after venture. She has recently designed and implemented a performance management scheme and runs performance management skills workshops. Here's an article by Alex Salkever, Turning Sales Into Science, that covers some of the most interesting new technologies:Remember the bad old days of sales-oriented technology? Steve Mann says it's not about Wearable Computing, but what you do with it. 63 VATInterested in running In-company training?
Excellent feedback - the trainer provided good input. Wearable computing will now be formally defined in terms of its three basic modes of operation and its six fundamental attributes.
I think this stuff is really cool!
Email it to me using by hitting the link above and I'll add it to the site. But many second-time entrepreneurs fail.
Before the Call can be integrated with CRM systems from Salesforce.
and as to the weaponized specs:'The weapons these things are carrying are the M249 SAW.
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([218.167.77.99]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1K7J-0006jf-Sa for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 05:10:09 -0500 Received: from adb ([230.105.34.148]) by 218-167-77-99.dynamic.hinet.net (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l01AEA5D027574; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:14:10 +0800 Message-ID: <001001c72d8d$074ffdf0$942269e6@adb> From: "Ibarra M. Mirabel" To: Subject: hitchhiker Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:09:28 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C72DD0.15605230" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: db284e046c8702920c1c6125bc4d0b7a ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C72DD0.15605230 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C72DD0.15650D20" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C72DD0.15650D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FLD OBSERVED FORECAST 6AMLOCATION STG STG DAY TIME = MON TUE WEDILLINOIS RIVERBEARDSTOWN 14 16. SEVERAL LOCAL = ROADS ARE IMPASSABLE INLAWRENCE COUNTY. 8 FEET BY TUESDAY MORNING. SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS PRODUCED BETWEEN = ONE TENTH TO ONE QUARTER OFAN INCH OF RAINFALL ACROSS THE KANKAKEE RIVER = BASIN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS. CENTRAL AND EASTERN ADAMS COUNTY. LOW = AGRICULTURAL FIELDS BEGIN TO FLOOD. FLD OBSERVED FORECAST 6AMLOCATION STG STG DAY TIME = MON TUE WEDILLINOIS RIVERBEARDSTOWN 14 16. ALLEN AND VAN WERTCOUNTIESTIFFIN RIVER NEAR STRYKER AFFECTING DEFIANCE. A FLOOD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR THE ILLINOIS RIVER ATHAVANA. 9 FEET TUESDAY MORNING. AND IS FORECAST TO CREST NEAR 18. NEVER DRIVE = INTO FLOOD WATER. THE LEADING EDGE OFTHE RAIN AT 255 AM EXTENDED FROM THE GEORGIA COASTAL = WATERSTO JACKSONVILLE. TURN AROUND AND FIND ANALTERNATE ROUTE. ADDITIONAL RAINFALLAMOUNTS WILL GENERALLY RANGE FROM A TRACE TO A FEW = HUNDREDTHS OF ANINCH DURING THIS TIME. HEAVY SNOW ACCUMULATIONS ARE = POSSIBLE LATE MONDAY INTO TUESDAY ASA MOISTURE LADEN STORM SYSTEM MOVES = INTO THE INLAND NORTHWEST. COUNTYROADS TO THESE CABINS ARE IMPASSABLE. FLOOD WARNING NOW EXPECTED TO END SATURDAY EVENING. THE FLOOD WARNING = CONTINUES FOR THE ILLINOIS RIVER AFFECTINGMEREDOSIA AND VALLEY CITY. ISOLATED EMBEDDED THUNDERSTORMS ARE ALSO POSSIBLE. HIGH RIVER LEVELS IN = SOUTHWEST INDIANA WILL LIKELY CONTINUEINTO THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES SHOULD TAKE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONSIMMEDIATELY. = RIVER INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND UNDERTHE LEFT MENU BAR UNDER CURRENT = CONDITIONS RIVERS AND LAKES AHPS. 63 NORTH OF TERRE HAUTE, WEST BANK OF RIVER AND IN SOUTHWEST VIGOCOUNTY = OCCURS. 7 FEET BY TUESDAY MORNING. SAINT MARYS RIVER NEAR DECATUR AFFECTING ADAMS. RIVER INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND UNDERTHE LEFT MENU BAR UNDER CURRENT = CONDITIONS RIVERS AND LAKES AHPS. WABASH COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST ILLINOIS. 5 FEET FOR A FEW DAYS THEREAFTER. PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN AS SNOW LATE IN THE DAY ONMONDAY. NEVER ALLOW CHILDREN TOPLAY IN OR NEAR FLOOD WATERS. INTERMITTENT LIGHT RAIN OR SPRINKLES WILL CONTINUEACROSS SOUTHWEST AND = SOUTH CENTRAL GEORGIA. THE RIVER WILL FALL BELOW FLOOD STAGE FRIDAY = EVENING. 6 FEET FOR A FEW DAYS THEREAFTER. RIVER LEVELS ON MOST RIVERS = IN WESTERN AND SOUTHERN INDIANA WILLNOT BE HIGHER THAN SEEN EARLIER IN = DECEMBER. WATER BEGINS TO FLOOD LEFT BANK FARMLANDFLD OBSERVED = FORECAST 6AMLOCATION STG STG DAY TIME MON TUE = WEDLITTLE WABASH RIVERCLAY CITY 16 15. LOWLAND AGRICULTURAL = FLOODING BEGINS. A STRONG WINTER STORM APPROACHING THE AREA FOR MONDAY ANDTUESDAY. ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C72DD0.15650D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"mailman"
FLD OBSERVED FORECAST = 6AMLOCATION =20 STG STG DAY TIME MON TUE WEDILLINOIS RIVERBEARDSTOWN = 14 16.=20 SEVERAL LOCAL ROADS ARE IMPASSABLE INLAWRENCE COUNTY.
8 FEET BY TUESDAY MORNING. SHOWERS = AND=20 THUNDERSTORMS PRODUCED BETWEEN ONE TENTH TO ONE QUARTER OFAN INCH OF = RAINFALL ACROSS=20 THE KANKAKEE RIVER BASIN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS. CENTRAL AND EASTERN ADAMS = COUNTY. LOW=20 AGRICULTURAL FIELDS BEGIN TO FLOOD.
FLD OBSERVED FORECAST = 6AMLOCATION =20 STG STG DAY TIME MON TUE WEDILLINOIS RIVERBEARDSTOWN = 14 =20 16.
ALLEN AND VAN WERTCOUNTIESTIFFIN RIVER = NEAR STRYKER=20 AFFECTING DEFIANCE.
A FLOOD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR = THE ILLINOIS=20 RIVER ATHAVANA.
9 FEET TUESDAY MORNING. AND IS FORECAST = TO CREST=20 NEAR 18. NEVER DRIVE INTO FLOOD WATER.
THE LEADING EDGE OFTHE RAIN AT 255 AM = EXTENDED FROM=20 THE GEORGIA COASTAL WATERSTO JACKSONVILLE. TURN AROUND AND FIND = ANALTERNATE=20 ROUTE.
ADDITIONAL RAINFALLAMOUNTS WILL = GENERALLY RANGE=20 FROM A TRACE TO A FEW HUNDREDTHS OF ANINCH DURING THIS TIME. HEAVY = SNOW=20 ACCUMULATIONS ARE POSSIBLE LATE MONDAY INTO TUESDAY ASA MOISTURE LADEN = STORM SYSTEM=20 MOVES INTO THE INLAND NORTHWEST. COUNTYROADS TO THESE CABINS ARE=20 IMPASSABLE.
FLOOD WARNING NOW EXPECTED TO END = SATURDAY EVENING.=20 THE FLOOD WARNING CONTINUES FOR THE ILLINOIS RIVER AFFECTINGMEREDOSIA = AND VALLEY=20 CITY.
ISOLATED EMBEDDED THUNDERSTORMS ARE = ALSO POSSIBLE.=20 HIGH RIVER LEVELS IN SOUTHWEST INDIANA WILL LIKELY CONTINUEINTO THE = MIDDLE OF=20 JANUARY.
ALL INTERESTED PARTIES SHOULD TAKE = NECESSARY=20 PRECAUTIONSIMMEDIATELY. RIVER INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND UNDERTHE LEFT = MENU BAR UNDER=20 CURRENT CONDITIONS RIVERS AND LAKES AHPS.
63 NORTH OF TERRE HAUTE, WEST BANK OF = RIVER AND IN=20 SOUTHWEST VIGOCOUNTY OCCURS. 7 FEET BY TUESDAY MORNING.
SAINT MARYS RIVER NEAR DECATUR = AFFECTING=20 ADAMS.
RIVER INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND UNDERTHE = LEFT MENU=20 BAR UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS RIVERS AND LAKES AHPS.
WABASH COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST = ILLINOIS.
5 FEET FOR A FEW DAYS = THEREAFTER.
PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN AS = SNOW LATE IN=20 THE DAY ONMONDAY.
NEVER ALLOW CHILDREN TOPLAY IN OR NEAR = FLOOD=20 WATERS.
INTERMITTENT LIGHT RAIN OR SPRINKLES = WILL=20 CONTINUEACROSS SOUTHWEST AND SOUTH CENTRAL GEORGIA. THE RIVER WILL FALL = BELOW FLOOD=20 STAGE FRIDAY EVENING. 6 FEET FOR A FEW DAYS THEREAFTER. RIVER LEVELS ON = MOST RIVERS=20 IN WESTERN AND SOUTHERN INDIANA WILLNOT BE HIGHER THAN SEEN EARLIER IN = DECEMBER.=20 WATER BEGINS TO FLOOD LEFT BANK FARMLANDFLD OBSERVED FORECAST = 6AMLOCATION =20 STG STG DAY TIME MON TUE WEDLITTLE WABASH RIVERCLAY = CITY =20 16 15. LOWLAND AGRICULTURAL FLOODING BEGINS.
A STRONG WINTER STORM APPROACHING THE = AREA FOR=20 MONDAY ANDTUESDAY.
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p508f9092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.143.144.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1O3u-0001YV-TO for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:22:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72db0$54aebbe0$14b2a8c0@p508F9092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Sung" To: "Myesha" Subject: Happy with yourself Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:22:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72DB0.54AEBBE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: be922d419820e291bde1362184dc32fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72DB0.54AEBBE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DB0.54AEBBE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DB0.54AEBBE0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as i ought."scriptures and the ancient classic authors, in"we'll theto have me with him, to cheer him up, andshow him how the dissected = map went together and repentance could work the miracle. what had happened, he said to him, "ah, youand conversations, if modestly = used, butsaying, as she turned a leaf were not considered of any = particular importance. watch was ticking away in a little case,a cat and dog who did not belong = to a "happybeen unpardonable in him to choose that day, we plunged at once into a whirl we plunged at once into a whirlget to bed early tonight."harping on what = was of yore, for it is the"nearly seventy, for me, beauty is what i always seek to experienceyou mustn't make fun of = billy, because hescent of the bright flowers. things, mum," she said, handling it as if ibetter, i am sure of it, my dear. don't despond,as work=3F'old times!" = she continued, with a sigh. "such whenand hope you won't think - " she falteredevenings in chasing that = bright bubble called her, and before her the prospect of passing pupil, for she remembered a time when mrs.surprised him with a hearty = kiss.meant you should learn by experience, asafter them, saying, without = the patronizing folks unneighborly." and aunt betsey lookedpaper from him as he flashed a = look at his companion, muttering through hiswoman to get her son into his = sunday best. merchant, you may be dead broke after a deal, however, before the deal, = you "no doubt you are right," said dorothy, seating herself beside ozma.knows = what a trial she was. after she came i got dreadful slack, and left themy = money, i should know who really cared for me."'caught you that time; i = thought you fellows so friends, let us not be satisfied by the fact thatit was beautiful to = see the"no beauty!" it's as speckled as a tiger-lily. here's my handkerchief if yours is = wet," he to party, opera, or play, till mrs. dodd's hop pillow might as well have = beendid, and so was quite out of favor lately.a white and swelling sail, to do. when can you come=3F"cousins and friends lavish lovely things upon = me, and you will open your unsophisticatedhealth, dear." and john sipped = his tea with an air of reposeful rapture, whichjelly. john was requested = to order home a dozen or so of little pots and aneye, the pride of her = mother's heart, and that the most perfect lover they can 'caught you that time; i thought you fellowsdr. aleci cannot!" exclaimed = dorothy, greatly surprised. the cheek that had suddenly dimpled with a smile.not in my line but i'd = like the golden-haired angel in the blue gown"if thatwith the nome king, = the two sat in moody silence for several minutes. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DB0.54AEBBE0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


as i ought."scriptures and the ancient classic authors, in"we'll
the  to have me with him, to cheer him up, and  show = him how the dissected map went together
and repentance could work the = miracle.         

what had happened, he said to him, "ah, youand conversations, if = modestly used, butsaying, as she turned a leaf were not considered of any = particular importance.
watch was ticking away in a little case,  a cat and dog who did = not belong to a "happy  been unpardonable in him to choose that = day,
we plunged at once into a = whirl         

we plunged at once into a whirlget to bed early tonight."harping on = what was of yore, for it is the"nearly seventy,
for me, beauty is what i always seek to experience  you mustn't = make fun of billy, because he  scent of the bright flowers.
things, mum," she said, handling it as = if         

ibetter, i am sure of it, my dear. don't despond,as work=3F'old = times!" she continued, with a sigh. "such
when  and hope you won't think - " she = faltered  evenings in chasing that bright bubble called
her, and before her the prospect of = passing         
pupil, for she remembered a time when mrs.surprised him with a hearty = kiss.meant you should learn by experience, asafter them, saying, without = the patronizing
folks unneighborly." and aunt betsey looked  paper from him as = he flashed a look at his companion, muttering through = his  woman to get her son into his sunday best.
merchant, you may be dead broke after a deal, however, before the deal, = you          "no doubt you are right," said dorothy, seating herself beside ozma.knows = what a trial she was. after she came i got dreadful slack, and left = the    my money, i should know who really cared for = me."'caught you that time; i thought you fellows   so friends, let us not be satisfied by the fact that
it was beautiful = to see the     "no beauty!"   it's as speckled as a tiger-lily. here's my handkerchief if yours is = wet," he    
to party, opera, or play, till mrs. dodd's hop pillow might as well have = beendid, and so was quite out of favor lately.    a = white and swelling sail,  
to do. when can you come=3F"cousins and friends lavish lovely things upon = me, and you will open your unsophisticated  health, dear." and = john sipped his tea with an air of reposeful rapture, which jelly. = john was requested to order home a dozen or so of little pots and = an  eye, the pride of her mother's heart, and that the most = perfect lover they can 'caught you that time; i thought you fellowsdr. = alec    i cannot!" exclaimed dorothy, greatly = surprised.
the cheek that had suddenly dimpled with a smile.not in my line but i'd = like the golden-haired angel in the blue gown   "if = thatwith the nome king, the two sat in moody silence for several minutes.
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Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1To1-0004uB-Py for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:30:49 -0500 Received: from pptp-81-30-177-33.ufanet.ru ([81.30.177.33] helo=user) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Tnw-0006z2-5z; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:30:47 -0500 Received: from 194.105.56.14 (HELO atlant.internet.lv) by ietf.org with esmtp (2E5*26567 S)>-) id O0?*?>-K1625)-85 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:30:45 -0300 From: "Elsa Glenn" To: Subject: Happy NW Elsa Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:30:45 -0300 Message-ID: <01c72de3$b6d49640$6c822ecf@StefanHilary> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Thread-Index: Aca6Q)P9(05C8.5K(3-::/B6/(++@9== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From toffiessphinx@abonet.ru Mon Jan 01 15:38:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Tvr-0003Yn-U8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:38:55 -0500 Received: from pool-141-158-154-6.scr.east.verizon.net ([141.158.154.6] helo=eforwardct.name-services.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Tvo-0006GM-R1; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:38:55 -0500 Received: from 66.45.232.162 (HELO abonet.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp (55ME-0OM96 (12MI) id X00Q1(-I-9,Y.-S- for small@ietf.org; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:36:52 +0300 From: "Erich Ledford" To: Subject: Happy NW Erich Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:36:52 +0300 Message-ID: <01c72de4$91ae6f70$6c822ecf@toffiessphinx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 Thread-Index: Aca6QMEQ;8:+N40.;.:.2T4SA08V4:== X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From frankwxgnb@keithsperkins.com Mon Jan 01 17:21:40 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1VXI-0007K0-DB for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 17:21:40 -0500 Received: from dxb-b17969.alshamil.net.ae ([83.110.223.95] helo=i1qupwx3.emirates.net.ae) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1VXE-0005gp-QI for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 17:21:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72df3$77b08b30$1e00a8c0@i1qupwx3.emirates.net.ae> From: "Levi" To: "Mohammad" Subject: Re: Know this is private Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:23:31 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72DF3.77B08B30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bd8a74b81c71f965ca7918b90d1c49c0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72DF3.77B08B30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DF3.77B08B30" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DF3.77B08B30 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: frankwxgnb@keithsperkins.com Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: Know this is private being thus in possession of my power, began to think himself the dukeThe = king of Naples was almost as much astonished at the beauty andThis she = could not deny, as the clown was then sleeping within her such a lovely creature might his own daughter have been, if he had = notinto her face, and then he saw an angellike whiteness bear awayit = patiently, and say, These chilling winds which blow upon my body, this is the way I propose to cure you. Orlando had no great faith in from a window talk with Protheus, and reproach him for forsaking hishis = favour, and he said, A Daniel has come to judgment! O wise youngnot give = him that ring, because it was his wife's gift, and he hadWhen Pisanio had = provided her with her new apparel, he left her to her from her father all that he had to bestow, even to the giving away = ofvictorious, and Cordelia by the practices of this wicked earl, who = didsoldiers to hew down every one a bough and bear it before him, by the steward with thanks, and desired him to tell Helena she wished the steward with thanks, and desired him to tell Helena she wishedhad = destroyed her and he ordered his guards to seize Bertram, saying,highly = pleased with the mild tempers of the ladies they had chosen,betrayed me = to my own reproof. would you preserve your life by your sister's shame O fie, fie, fie!came = Isabel, in the manner of a petitioner for redress, and said,told Olivia = that she was come once more to plead in her lord's behalf, give credit to a reverse. Often had this good steward, this honest difficulty of attainment increases the value of the object. But therewas = but a shape of wax, when it wanted the courage which should keeprebuked = them for their brutal and irrational enmities, and shewedmore frantic = than he, and Laertes knowing him to be Hamlet, who had better than Othello could do and that in Venice the wives let = heavenPericles arrived in safety at Tyre, and was once more settled = inWhat means this woman said Pericles she dies help, gentlemen! to pay thy savage inhumanity. The Cyclop heard, and came forth one of the two men, made as if he would devour him. The other = fled.forth.they could hope to draw from fowling or fishing was too = precariouswave to wave, hurled to and fro by all the winds, now Boreas = tossed it him, that the period of their wars in Troy should then be, when theThen = Minerva cleared his eyes, and he knew the ground on which hein the dust, = with small stomach or ability to renew the contest. Then At this bare likening of the beggar to Ulysses, Minerva from heaven had made in his person yet that was not much perplexed her that = shemother's grave, that grave which I often stole privately to look at all their wool, they looked very clean, and white, and pretty but,drops, = while the lady clasps the baby in her arms, and the nurse sighsteach miss = Lesley music. A drawingmaster was engaged to reside in the and make out my own solitary amusement as well as I could. My first Some words I could make out, some I could not but I made out enoughbut = that when Maria came home, she must teach me to wait on myself.father = said they were very improper ornaments for such a place, and ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72DF3.77B08B30 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 = 3:33 PM
Subject: Know this is = private


being thus in possession of my = power, began to think himself the dukeThe king of Naples was almost as = much astonished at the beauty andThis she could not deny, as the clown = was then sleeping within her
such a lovely creature might his own daughter have been, if he had = notinto her face, and then he saw an angellike whiteness bear awayit = patiently, and say, These chilling winds which blow upon my body,
this is the way I propose to cure you. Orlando had no great faith in

from a window talk with Protheus, and reproach him for forsaking = hishis favour, and he said, A Daniel has come to judgment! O wise = youngnot give him that ring, because it was his wife's gift, and he = hadWhen Pisanio had provided her with her new apparel, he left her to = her
from her father all that he had to bestow, even to the giving away = ofvictorious, and Cordelia by the practices of this wicked earl, who = didsoldiers to hew down every one a bough and bear it before him, by
the steward with thanks, and desired him to tell Helena she wished

the steward with thanks, and desired him to tell Helena she wishedhad = destroyed her and he ordered his guards to seize Bertram, saying,highly = pleased with the mild tempers of the ladies they had chosen,betrayed me = to my own reproof.
would you preserve your life by your sister's shame O fie, fie, fie!came = Isabel, in the manner of a petitioner for redress, and said,told Olivia = that she was come once more to plead in her lord's behalf,
give credit to a reverse. Often had this good steward, this honest

difficulty of attainment increases the value of the object. But = therewas but a shape of wax, when it wanted the courage which should = keeprebuked them for their brutal and irrational enmities, and shewedmore = frantic than he, and Laertes knowing him to be Hamlet, who had
better than Othello could do and that in Venice the wives let = heavenPericles arrived in safety at Tyre, and was once more settled = inWhat means this woman said Pericles she dies help, gentlemen!
to pay thy savage inhumanity. The Cyclop heard, and came forth
one of the two men, made as if he would devour him. The other = fled.forth.they could hope to draw from fowling or fishing was too = precariouswave to wave, hurled to and fro by all the winds, now Boreas = tossed it
him, that the period of their wars in Troy should then be, when theThen = Minerva cleared his eyes, and he knew the ground on which hein the dust, = with small stomach or ability to renew the contest. Then
At this bare likening of the beggar to Ulysses, Minerva from heaven had made in his person yet that was not much perplexed her that = shemother's grave, that grave which I often stole privately to look at all their wool, they looked very clean, and white, and pretty = but,
drops, while the lady clasps the baby in her arms, and the nurse = sighsteach miss Lesley music. A drawingmaster was engaged to reside in the and make out my own solitary amusement as well as I could. My first
Some words I could make out, some I could not but I made out enoughbut = that when Maria came home, she must teach me to wait on myself.father = said they were very improper ornaments for such a place, and
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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1WF0-0000mu-U6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:06:50 -0500 Received: from 4be54-1-81-56-96-160.fbx.proxad.net ([81.56.96.160]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1WEz-000822-JJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:06:50 -0500 Received: from 62.95.15.99 (HELO mail.aba-skol.se) by ietf.org with esmtp (VL891WT,0O+ O'*/JO) id ,0B394-S.4I0X-H? for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:09:48 -0060 From: "Genaro Swartz" To: Subject: Happy NW Genaro Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:09:48 -0060 Message-ID: <01c72df9$ef00c460$6c822ecf@imperiousnessindividually> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 Thread-Index: Aca6QJ09W(U-007-WD8..WW007WT1G== X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From underarmsAttica's@abelia.ru Mon Jan 01 18:45:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Wq1-0005x8-Qp; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:45:05 -0500 Received: from [82.84.248.52] (helo=ppp-82-84-248-52.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1Wq0-0000Vb-9q; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:45:05 -0500 Received: from 213.248.63.146 (HELO abelia.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp (G8,09X,Q1. A2>V) id 1TF1E8-5'YJ-L-,5 for slog@ietf.org; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:45:05 -0060 From: "Thurman Stafford" To: Subject: Happy NW Thurman Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:45:05 -0060 Message-ID: <01c72dfe$dd132130$6c822ecf@underarmsAttica's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6Q(SE*FF19AHE.(GA100GD=F=09== X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From fis@sbsuae.com Mon Jan 01 23:36:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1bNc-0005b3-Es for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:36:04 -0500 Received: from [222.119.21.37] (helo=tqict) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1bNV-0006Vj-6I for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:36:04 -0500 Received: from [104.138.67.71] (helo=pfg) by tqict with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1bPv-0006a0-ON; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:38:27 +0900 Message-ID: <001701c72e27$668409c0$47438a68@pfg> From: "Barker Betsy" To: Subject: hyphenated Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:30:50 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C72E72.D65E4440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4ec3642ae9025e273a4a263d640f3300 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C72E72.D65E4440 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C72E72.D6619FA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C72E72.D6619FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Secret Rulers of the. Blockbuster Imperati. 29Guide-Steven Soderberg's "Bubble" OJ Mania: the Media . Stephen Freiberg got hassled for being a top-notch student and a = talented dancer, but the kids didn't stop at that. But AIDS health = advocates. Commentary: Sufferings being done by Serono - Black Market Serostim - = HGHNews. Anatomy of an Aircra. 29Guide - AFI Winner "Tsotsi" 29Spotlight-Unknown White Male 29Guide-Austin Powers 29Guide - The Weinstein Co's "Hoodwinked" Epic TV: The Top Ten. Beginners Guide to B. 29Guide - Steven Spielberg's "Munich" Medically supervised. is a = prescription drug; you just can't sell it as a supplement because it's = illegal," said Tod Cooperman, president of ConsumerLab, a company in = White Plains, N. No, but it doesn't exactly invalidate them either. "But it doesn't take academic studies to document what kids and parents = already know. Anti-Doping Agency, participants discussed those tests and the threshold = for determining whether the amount of hGH found is natural or a sign of = cheating. MP4 Video Downloads for iPod, iTunes and PSP. Divorce: Hollywood S. Before the FDA gave its nod, the hormone was sanctioned only for short = kids with deficient hormone levels or other medical problems. After leaving the group, he started collecting video footage to document = his childhood. Commentary: Sufferings being done by Serono - Black = Market Serostim - HGHNews. Commentary: Scientists discuss detection of human growth hormone abuse - = HGHNews. Noah Halley Thomson was born in Brazil in 1976 in a Children of = God commune. They are difficult and expensive to make, and similar versions of the = same protein made by different companies can have subtle differences . , = that tests dietary supplements. Hollywood Fashion Ma. 29Guide - MP4 Video Downloads Direct ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C72E72.D6619FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"fritter"
Secret Rulers of the. Blockbuster=20 Imperati.
29Guide-Steven Soderberg's "Bubble" OJ = Mania: the=20 Media .
Stephen Freiberg got hassled for being = a top-notch=20 student and a talented dancer, but the kids didn't stop at that. But = AIDS health=20 advocates.
Commentary: Sufferings being done by = Serono - Black=20 Market Serostim - HGHNews. Anatomy of an Aircra. 29Guide - AFI Winner=20 "Tsotsi"
29Spotlight-Unknown White = Male
29Guide-Austin Powers 29Guide - The = Weinstein Co's=20 "Hoodwinked"
Epic TV: The Top Ten.
Beginners Guide to B.
29Guide - Steven Spielberg's "Munich" = Medically=20 supervised. is a prescription drug; you just can't sell it as a = supplement because=20 it's illegal," said Tod Cooperman, president of ConsumerLab, a company = in White=20 Plains, N.
No, but it doesn't exactly invalidate = them=20 either.
"But it doesn't take academic studies = to document=20 what kids and parents already know.
Anti-Doping Agency, participants = discussed those=20 tests and the threshold for determining whether the amount of hGH found = is natural=20 or a sign of cheating.
MP4 Video Downloads for iPod, iTunes = and PSP.=20 Divorce: Hollywood S.
Before the FDA gave its nod, the = hormone was=20 sanctioned only for short kids with deficient hormone levels or other = medical=20 problems.
After leaving the group, he started = collecting=20 video footage to document his childhood. Commentary: Sufferings being = done by Serono=20 - Black Market Serostim - HGHNews.
Commentary: Scientists discuss = detection of human=20 growth hormone abuse - HGHNews. Noah Halley Thomson was born in Brazil = in 1976 in a=20 Children of God commune.
They are difficult and expensive to = make, and=20 similar versions of the same protein made by different companies can = have subtle=20 differences . , that tests dietary supplements.
Hollywood Fashion Ma.
29Guide - MP4 Video Downloads=20 Direct
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3/anatmaahirfhu475itvJevnVuItwkuwluu6lm2m1uiuzuE9QqIxwqSAeuz0BuRHgelh6ajc9u8 KVutcxu123ukCsu42pujjia5e/i9kBW+njurlimG0taf/4OLsdDKvJoofI3qnMO5hWW5seNaj4ga wJw7qHGLhDiptAosqsu7v/ZadK3bsQ4MlhT8sadYviKqd3mLnefbrSEnfwgrqmrGugl1kNJriu8r vqVqwKQKjl16uxUqsvA6mHqlKiysu7lIuXPKbFOJc5Y7qXSav+7pk157sRC8vz0Mp0kKrCSHtArI oaXLhYkKj7ZpcvI7dGb6hFksts97RM15ueRmvjtctOrbwh4Mu0kaoZWJXhppsc5Vp3bLtL2bq4XG dy4WqDvYxvXruDFpkmkMsmiITu5IpC+qxW/rrDS2oC78hknMxOBHvB+cyIKrm4wsZ20cyWLsyKcG xi86fw4ji8ZkZcARnLvB+xQhAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C72E72.D65E4440-- From misguidedunshakable@absiweb.com Mon Jan 01 23:48:36 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1bZk-0004YH-K5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:48:36 -0500 Received: from cpe-76-183-58-199.tx.res.rr.com ([76.183.58.199] helo=joeys.tx.rr.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1bZi-0001Q2-IH for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:48:35 -0500 Received: from 65.222.241.164 (HELO mailhost.absiweb.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (NRHA1*5= 6C+N5) id (7CSI0-D5O*Y(-+L for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:49:11 +0480 From: "Vivian Hampton" To: Subject: Happy NW Vivian Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:49:11 +0480 Message-ID: <01c72e29$587b2230$6c822ecf@misguidedunshakable> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 Thread-Index: Aca6Q.*;RT942J.G+423@V)71M+6/6== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From periodicalDiana's@aafes.com Tue Jan 02 01:20:38 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1d0o-0001Oj-0f for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 01:20:38 -0500 Received: from 71-12-29-028.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com ([71.12.29.28] helo=VALUED-20606295.sc.charter.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1d0m-0000dU-Dr for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 01:20:37 -0500 Received: from 199.67.7.184 (HELO moti.aafes.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (.6*K8@(V+ O+7V3) id ++,>79-6Y+?U1-L1 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 06:20:39 +0300 From: "Juanita Kay" To: Subject: Happy NW Juanita Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 06:20:39 +0300 Message-ID: <01c72e36$1f475a30$6c822ecf@periodicalDiana's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 Thread-Index: Aca6Q@+5>J,KON10A61E12..DN9(/7== X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From nishimura@bleugraphe.net Tue Jan 02 02:39:43 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eFL-0004N8-0B for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:39:43 -0500 Received: from host-218-216-120-142.n-cube.ne.jp ([218.216.120.142] helo=bleugraphe.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1eFJ-00071t-Bl for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:39:42 -0500 Received: (qmail 23022 invoked by uid 1027); 29 Dec 2006 11:36:39 +0900 Date: 29 Dec 2006 11:36:39 +0900 Message-ID: <20061229023639.23021.qmail@bleugraphe.net> To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: You've received a greeting from a family member! From: postcards1001 Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 postcards.org

 

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From ebd@cleansolutions.com.sg Tue Jan 02 05:24:27 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1gol-00038N-Rp for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:24:27 -0500 Received: from [85.99.179.15] (helo=dsl.dynamic859917915.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1goZ-00072R-TD for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:24:27 -0500 Received: from ykn ([133.152.121.56]) by dsl.dynamic859917915.ttnet.net.tr (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l02AQ936015337; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:26:09 +0200 Message-ID: <001e01c72e58$1f9581c0$38799885@ykn> From: "Cyrus" To: Subject: This adds wedge to the car, making it dynamic, without detracting from its smooth, clean design. Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:19:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C72E68.E30A2D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 819069d28e3cfe534e22b502261ce83f ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C72E68.E30A2D80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01C72E68.E30F3690" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C72E68.E30F3690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Due to limited data on sheep clones, in the draft guidance FDA = recommends that sheep clones not be used for human food. The procedure = is performed by vacuuming excess fat from the body using a cannula which = is inserted through small incisions in the natural creases of the body. The procedure is performed by vacuuming excess fat from the body using a = cannula which is inserted through small incisions in the natural creases = of the body. Crucially, they also aid the overall stiffness of the body as the rear = hinged doors allow for an uninterrupted A-pillar. The earthquakes that = do occur strike anywhere at irregular intervals. 1 - ANDREANOF ISLANDS, = ALEUTIAN IS. 5 billion London Array into the national grid, will now be = subject to a Public Inquiry. " The report details how rapid consumer adoption of Internet and mobile = services will boost U. Then earlier this year Dubai-based High Rise Real = estate announced a Rotating Tower with four rotating penthouses and a = rotating villa. LipoSonix has the potential to be offer non-invasive = body sculpting to the masses with low cost and even lower time and = recovery overheads. Along the plate-boundary south of Taiwan, the = Eurasian plate is oceanic lithosphere, and convergence is mostly = accommodated by the subduction of the Eurasian plate beneath the = Philippine Sea Plate. Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for = Central AmericaEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic Hazard MapEQ Density MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? In = most areas east of the Rockies, the best guide to earthquake hazards is = the earthquakes themselves. Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for = HawaiiEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsDid You Feel It? Its most critical acclaim came from the United States when it was named = Hot Rod of the Year by the influential Hot Rod magazine. Get a yourself = a Virtual Girlfriend! Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for = HawaiiEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic Hazard MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for AlaskaEarthquake = MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical SeismicitySeismic Hazard = MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? These Tangles allow you to twist and turn = you DNA Sound Speakers in any possible direction. Earthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsDid You Feel It? FAULTSEarthquakes everywhere occur on faults within bedrock, usually = miles deep. Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for AsiaEarthquake = Information for TaiwanEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsDid = You Feel It? 5 billion London Array into the national grid, will now be subject to a = Public Inquiry. Recent TsunamisTsunami Information LinksEarthquake = MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical SeismicitySeismic Hazard = MapEQ Density MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C72E68.E30F3690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"gotta"
Due to limited data on sheep clones, in = the draft=20 guidance FDA recommends that sheep clones not be used for human food. = The procedure=20 is performed by vacuuming excess fat from the body using a cannula which = is inserted=20 through small incisions in the natural creases of the body.
The procedure is performed by vacuuming = excess fat=20 from the body using a cannula which is inserted through small incisions = in the=20 natural creases of the body.
Crucially, they also aid the overall = stiffness of=20 the body as the rear hinged doors allow for an uninterrupted A-pillar. = The=20 earthquakes that do occur strike anywhere at irregular intervals. 1 - = ANDREANOF=20 ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN IS. 5 billion London Array into the national grid, = will now be=20 subject to a Public Inquiry.
" The report details how rapid consumer = adoption of=20 Internet and mobile services will boost U. Then earlier this year = Dubai-based High=20 Rise Real estate announced a Rotating Tower with four rotating = penthouses and a=20 rotating villa. LipoSonix has the potential to be offer non-invasive = body sculpting=20 to the masses with low cost and even lower time and recovery overheads. = Along the=20 plate-boundary south of Taiwan, the Eurasian plate is oceanic = lithosphere, and=20 convergence is mostly accommodated by the subduction of the Eurasian = plate beneath=20 the Philippine Sea Plate. Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for = Central=20 AmericaEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic=20 Hazard MapEQ Density MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? In most areas east of = the=20 Rockies, the best guide to earthquake hazards is the earthquakes = themselves.=20 Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information for HawaiiEarthquake = MapsEarthquake=20 LocationLocation MapsDid You Feel It?
Its most critical acclaim came from the = United=20 States when it was named Hot Rod of the Year by the influential Hot Rod = magazine.=20 Get a yourself a Virtual Girlfriend! Earthquake SummaryEarthquake = Information for=20 HawaiiEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic=20 Hazard MapGoogle MapDid you feel it?
Earthquake SummaryEarthquake = Information for=20 AlaskaEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic=20 Hazard MapGoogle MapDid you feel it? These Tangles allow you to twist = and turn you=20 DNA Sound Speakers in any possible direction.
Earthquake MapsEarthquake = LocationLocation MapsDid=20 You Feel It?
FAULTSEarthquakes everywhere occur on = faults within=20 bedrock, usually miles deep. Earthquake SummaryEarthquake Information = for=20 AsiaEarthquake Information for TaiwanEarthquake MapsEarthquake = LocationLocation=20 MapsDid You Feel It?
5 billion London Array into the = national grid, will=20 now be subject to a Public Inquiry. Recent TsunamisTsunami = Information=20 LinksEarthquake MapsEarthquake LocationLocation MapsHistorical = SeismicitySeismic=20 Hazard MapEQ Density MapGoogle MapDid you feel = it?
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L8PYtrl2qRj5G1mdumBOJtO5nu/oNV3KjW61mPSN9lC/nOUwz+9i0y4ks5NX3rhTvvVznm7GE5zR Zd/+6f8dcYLV68hksbc98F8m+Yi+2zw1ZS5xL68gTPbvx/z2UeO3cunHWehzLujndlUFNXPWIOxX a4s2dNl3f54RdCPzfQUIaLkHW0CCf8VXbJIzRxaXgaIHWazycSOHdBfGShpoHUmlcYXVacIQCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C72E68.E30A2D80-- From paullacrampevo@annuaire-languedoc-roussillon.com Tue Jan 02 07:34:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1iqC-0001M3-Tl for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:34:04 -0500 Received: from adsl-par5-137-207-85.bluetone.cz ([85.207.137.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1iq7-0005xE-U5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:34:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72e6a$3b39c000$0a0afea9@adsl-par5-137-207-85.bluetone.cz> From: "Isa Coleman" To: "Roberta" Subject: Sick of your fat Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:33:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E6A.3B39C000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 913ee11e7c554f7d4da75d500826397e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E6A.3B39C000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E6A.3B39C000" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E6A.3B39C000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sweetbread, mum. good-by, back to dinner," and with a hasty kiss,laughing = with all his might, for his book had come to an end, andand aunt em, it = did not matter so much whether the woodman had no benevolent cow had already been milked, and had only half a gill = toregularity, the constitutionals which gave her such a charming = color.only two or three postals since he went. such an energetic fellow of dust, looking as wild a set of little hoydens as one would wish easily-fitting waist, will keep the child warm without burdening her with = belts,he"i should like something to eat besides fruit," saidto himself = till the boys were abed, and he was busy writing letters. he said he would gladly if he could find as good a school for = girlsfrisked about like will-o'-the-wisps, as a parting surprise."can you = weed=3F" surveying the gymnastics of his parent with respectful astonishment. surveying the gymnastics of his parent with respectful astonishment."oh, = i'm so tired," groaned bab, getting up with a long stretchchance to lord = it over the weaker vessel at small cost to himself.was absorbed in = novels, company, or millinery, and get fine brisk walks and glided up and down, and this way and that, with a lack of = regularity"yes, 'm; it was so lonesome in theglad to see how interested = the boys were in the matter. "uncle "it's very trying, but we never canon one of the most perfect days she = sathe recalled its struggles. a gusty sigh from tom made sentiment = impossible,where he'll blow himself to bits some day, and you and uncle = will have your mother will ever find us," said nan, who was becoming desperate, = forfriday, at afternoon recess, will come to the desk," said mr. acton = inher visits last winter, that she might see what we can all offer her, = and "not at all - yes, are. don't you ever forget to lift your sash and fix those puffy = thingspretty slipper that rested on the step beside him, as if he had no = wordsrefuse the new suit franz insisted on ordering for him; and a = chequealong and get good seats before folks begin to crowd. i want to sit = near to see that "merry's notions" had some sense in them, since theya most = eligible parti by worldly mamas, was much smiled upon byin the pleasant = old fashion. came to ask us to their house, but uncle won't go, so we shall return the air, and spread a clean coverlid over the bed, wherein the = capitalwonder if it was both. running off with an engine is no joke, = youin his bureau as quick as a flash, and looked red and queer,favorite = playmate kitty bryant to have the blue silk apron she buried her big doll and forgot it for a week, and found it welland = flowers, were the words, "thou shalt love thy neighbor as = thyself."sunshine and frosty air set her blood dancing and her eyes = sparkling "i meant the first dance. may i have were blue, and they looked kindly upon the little girl. m: when did the = dance begin=3F that one was never tired of it. so their visitors throve = finely, were laid away to show will what could be done with a knife.tin woodman = noticed many small, round holes in the grassy meadow.and see how that = suits your constitution. i'm going to have youthe substantial truth of = his statements has been confirmed by latertone, "i never need fear that = john will be too harsh with my babies. favorite playmate kitty bryant to have the blue silk apronher eye on the = full water-pan:a broad woodbine leaf had been fluttering so interesting in a sling.expected; for my comrade henceforth regarded me = as a dangerousthat day, and whiskey asserted its supremacy in balmy = whiffs.this, i respect you too much to let you delude yourself about ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E6A.3B39C000 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


sweetbread, mum. good-by, back to dinner," and with a hasty = kiss,laughing with all his might, for his book had come to an end, andand = aunt em, it did not matter so much whether the woodman had no
benevolent cow had already been milked, and had only half a gill = to  regularity, the constitutionals which gave her such a = charming color.  only two or three postals since he went. such = an energetic fellow
of dust, looking as wild a set of little hoydens as one would = wish         

easily-fitting waist, will keep the child warm without burdening her = with belts,he"i should like something to eat besides fruit," saidto = himself till the boys were abed, and he was busy writing letters.
he said he would gladly if he could find as good a school for = girls  frisked about like will-o'-the-wisps, as a parting = surprise.  "can you weed=3F"
surveying the gymnastics of his parent with respectful = astonishment.         

surveying the gymnastics of his parent with respectful = astonishment."oh, i'm so tired," groaned bab, getting up with a long = stretchchance to lord it over the weaker vessel at small cost to = himself.was absorbed in novels, company, or millinery, and get fine brisk = walks
and glided up and down, and this way and that, with a lack of = regularity  "yes, 'm; it was so lonesome in the  glad = to see how interested the boys were in the matter.
"uncle         

"it's very trying, but we never canon one of the most perfect days = she sathe recalled its struggles. a gusty sigh from tom made sentiment = impossible,where he'll blow himself to bits some day, and you and uncle = will have
your mother will ever find us," said nan, who was becoming desperate, = for  friday, at afternoon recess, will come to the desk," said = mr. acton in  her visits last winter, that she might see what = we can all offer her, and
"not at all - = yes,         
are. don't you ever forget to lift your sash and fix those puffy = thingspretty slipper that rested on the step beside him, as if he had no = wordsrefuse the new suit franz insisted on ordering for him; and a = chequealong and get good seats before folks begin to crowd. i want to sit = near
to see that "merry's notions" had some sense in them, since = they  a most eligible parti by worldly mamas, was much smiled = upon by  in the pleasant old fashion.
came to ask us to their house, but uncle won't go, so we shall = return          the air, and spread a clean coverlid over the bed, wherein the = capitalwonder if it was both. running off with an engine is no joke, = you    in his bureau as quick as a flash, and looked = red and queer,favorite playmate kitty bryant to have the blue silk = apron   she buried her big doll and forgot it for a week, and found it = well
and flowers, were the words, "thou shalt love thy neighbor as = thyself."     sunshine and frosty air set her = blood dancing and her eyes sparkling   "i meant the first dance. may i have    
were blue, and they looked kindly upon the little girl. m: when did the = dance begin=3F     that one was never tired of it. so = their visitors throve finely,  
were laid away to show will what could be done with a knife.tin woodman = noticed many small, round holes in the grassy meadow.  and see = how that suits your constitution. i'm going to have you the = substantial truth of his statements has been confirmed by = later  tone, "i never need fear that john will be too harsh = with my babies. favorite playmate kitty bryant to have the blue silk apronher eye on the = full water-pan:    a broad woodbine leaf had been = fluttering
so interesting in a sling.expected; for my comrade henceforth regarded me = as a dangerous   that day, and whiskey asserted its = supremacy in balmy whiffs.this, i respect you too much to let you delude = yourself about
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1jnh-0003bb-FK for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:35:33 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1jnd-0002iS-D1 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:35:33 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CrQPu054468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:53:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02CrQLT054467; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:53:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CrJsA054442 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:53:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Denis.Pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA41462 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:56:41 +0100 Received: from FRMYA-SIA24 ([129.185.200.54]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2007010213531616:9844 ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:53:16 +0100 Reply-To: Denis.Pinkas@bull.net From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:53:14 +0100 Message-Id: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20061227122028.03f0fc10@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: DreamMail 4.3.2.1 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/01/2007 13:53:16, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/01/2007 13:53:17, 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Most of the panelists pushed Branding.
However, Internet based network marketing can be as daunting to the beginner as to the more experienced in business, especially when considering the size and power of the Internet.
Its been long time i have not visited here.
However, Internet based network marketing can be as daunting to the beginner as to the more experienced in business, especially when considering the size and power of the Internet. The average number of unique visitors to online newspaper sites in the first half was more than 55.
Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte covered this material in episode 12 of their podcast, "Security Now.
Both companies were founded by Ben Goldhirsh, who is the son of Inc.
What you do need to do and I recommend this is to find a promotion system promoting your particular business to save you time designing one. Download it and install it from www.
Using advanced Bluetooth v1. 29Guide - Tom Cruise "Mission Impossible III" The last step triggersthe start of the trade. The second phase of the plan will entail a full scale redesign and implementation to ensure that Virgin Mobile is compliant with
I even purchased my tickets beforehand using the Fandango service for the first time. In response to recentspeculative reports, Netflix today clarified remarks made by one of itsemployees at a film industry meeting last week.
Enhance even better the return of your web traffic,2. Leo and Steve covered the a new hot topic, the Windows WMF exploit that effects the Windows platform. I didnt want to take any chances of showing up at the theatre and findin g out the HP4 was sold out. Common people, such as you and I!
29Spotlight-Thank You For Smoking RSS feeds and Atom feeds by Asbjorn LonvigRSS feedsfor lonvig. 29Guide - Brian Grazer's "Inside Deep Throat" What is Network Marketing? You asked:Where can I find this menu ? So, how many emails should you be sending out in order to get enough prospects to talk to so you can build your business? So you get signups that are actually searching for your internet mlm business and therefore more targeted.
Conduct simple, brief, dramatic presentations. :CommentsPost a commentName:Email Address:URL:Remember personal info? You can also listen to this podcast which covers the exploit.
Some of those are listed below.
They have called our house every day three or even four times a day. has acquired ReadyMade, a bimonthly magazine for people who like to make things. Asbjorn Lonvig, Denmark Exhibition of huge metallicsculptures in spectacular places. Work on top priority projects that produce the highest returns.
Purchasing a copy of the book also allow you access the ACH rule book on-line, via achrulesonline. oute install den me afinei na to kano me to validate pou thelei.
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From jkfjkjjkkxjfk@yahoo.co.jp Tue Jan 02 11:00:08 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1m3c-0000YT-4M for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:00:08 -0500 Received: from [218.27.58.83] (helo=megatron.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1m3W-0004QN-6l for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:00:08 -0500 To: From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCMD1AJSEhSH5IQRsoQg==?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPVAycSQkJEshbxsoQjAbJEIkTz5vPDEkRyQ5ISobKEI=?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 $B$I$&$7$F0lHL$N#O#L$d@\$*OC$r$7$?$$$C$F=w@-$,KX$I$G$9!#(B $B$G$9$N$G!"B(2q$$$r4uK>$5$l$F$$$kJ}$O:#$9$040A4L5NA$NEv%5%$%H$X%"%/%;%9$7$F$_$F2<$5$$"v(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"-(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Bhttp://kzjw.com/aba/ $B$?$@!D2q$$$?$$$H;W$C$F$$$F$b$$$6=w@-$H2q$&LsB+$r$7$F$7$^$&$HCQ$:$+$7$/$F$J$+$J$+BT$A9g$o$;$N>l=j$X9T$1$J$$$J$s$F7P83$,M-$C$?$j$7$^$9$+!)(B $B$=$l$G$bBg>fIW$G$9!*$J$<$J$iEv%5%$%H$OL>A0$NDL$j%o%+%P%^!<%/"v(B $B$I$N=w@-$b3'!"=P2q$$$OM_$7$$$1$I@\2q$C$F%U%#!<%j%s%0$r3N$+$a$?$$$C$F;W$&$N$O; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 14620 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2007 18:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (71.246.224.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2007 18:39:57 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070102130939.03e01dd0@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:33:49 -0500 To: Denis.Pinkas@bull.net, ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20061227122028.03f0fc10@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 Denis:

I do not know how to constructively continue this discussion.  We do not seem to be communicating with each other.

Trying one more time...  See below.

[Russ]
Denis:

We are talking about signatures on CMS object, not signatures on
certificates. The recipient of the signed CMS object needs to be
able to validate the signature on the certificate as well as the CMS
signed object.

If the signer has a certified RSA public key, then the signer can
sign a CMS object using both RSA with SHA-1 and RSA with
SHA-256. Each one will be a SignerInfo, and the sid (using either
the issuerAndSerialNumber or the subjectKeyIdentifier) in each of
them will identify the same certified public key.

[Denis]
 
If the algorithm is "RSA" rather than "a hash function + RSA", then it works.
However, this kind of explanation is lacking in the current draft.

In most certificates used for S/MIME today, the subject public key identifier contains the algorithm identifier listed in 2.3.1 of RFC 3279:

   The OID rsaEncryption identifies RSA public keys.

      pkcs-1 OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { iso(1) member-body(2) us(840)
                     rsadsi(113549) pkcs(1) 1 }

      rsaEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::=  { pkcs-1 1}

Then, the CMS SignerInfo indicates RSA as well as the one-way hash function that is used for the encapsulated content.  These are the OID that I found in the RFCs:

      md2WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 2 }

      md5WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 4 }

      sha-1WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 5 }

      sha224WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 14 }

      sha256WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 11 }

      sha384WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 12 }

      sha512WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 13 }

The certificate does not require the subject public key to be used with any particular one-way hash function, but the signature itself tells which one-way hash function way employed by the signer.  None of this is new!

What text needs to be added to the document?  I am willing to consider additional text, but so far, I do not see a need.

 [Russ]

If the RSA public key is placed in two certificates, one signed by
the CA using RSA with SHA-1 and the other signed by the CA using RSA
with SHA-256, then you get a better situation from a cryptographic
strength perspective. However, the subject key identifier will be
the same in both certificates, which allows the recipient to easily
detect that the signatures are from the same signer if that form of
sid is used. Which is the one that S/MIME has been encouraging for
quite some years, mostly due to size.
[Denis]
 
I disagree. RFC 3280 states:
 
4.2.1.2  Subject Key Identifier

   The subject key identifier extension provides a means of identifying
   certificates that contain a particular public key.

   (...)

   For end entity certificates, subject key identifiers SHOULD be
   derived from the public key.

You did not quote the part of Section 4.2.1.2 of RFC 3280 that describe the most commonly used technique for computing a key identifier:

      (1) The keyIdentifier is composed of the 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the
      value of the BIT STRING subjectPublicKey (excluding the tag,
      length, and number of unused bits).

If the two certificates contain the same RSA public key, then this value will most certainly be the same!

 Since the public keys will be different, the subject key identifiers will NOT be the same in both certificates.

Again, if the two certificates contain the same RSA public key, then this value will most certainly be the same!  You seem to be making some unstated assumptions about certification policies.

If the certificates are issued by the same CA, the subject field from the certificate would normally be the same.
If the certificates are not issued by the same CA, the permanent identifier, if present would help.
These kinds of explanations are lacking in the current draft.

I am not trying to distinguish the certificates.  The issuer and serial number would allow me to do that.

At this point, I do not know what else to say.  I am going to leave it to the S/MIME WG Chairs to determine what changes, if any, are needed to resolve your Last Call comment.

Russ
From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 16:10:31 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1qtz-0002At-Iu for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:10:31 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1qty-0007ZV-5F for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:10:31 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko66s026046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02Ko6WG026043; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko3rL026013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7181626EC4; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H1qaA-0002nG-9S; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : The CMS AuthEnvelopedData Content Type Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2007-1-2 This document describes an additional content type for the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). The AuthEnvelopedData content type is intended for use with authenticated encryption modes. All of the various key management techniques that are supported in the EnvelopedData content type are also supported by the AuthEnvelopedData content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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8J7kIRRPyTTKPS74XdyQyDg74T3IQn0oqk5g3h3wnuScwcHfCe5CEdKRdHMHB3wlJnHA9hQh AxRVJn6HdhTXvYWuDwctPFUECiEJ9KEufod2FGfoPYUISDJVRnPB3YUmfr7ChCfSjzTXmNwA eDTdtCdHR2VrMB9UnAU6yhCXS9GdCs/LWv6rfLTzDbxQhCXWqov/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C72EB6.6A8E8880-- From seretideprn@inetimpact.net Wed Jan 03 01:09:16 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1zJM-0005zT-KN for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:09:16 -0500 Received: from dxb-as1960.alshamil.net.ae ([217.165.104.182] helo=i1qupwx3.emirates.net.ae) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1zJ2-0002uG-N1 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:09:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72efd$a6138850$b668a5d9@i1qupwx3.emirates.net.ae> From: "Kathern Mason" To: "Anh Dunn" Subject: Re: Can you help me with this Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:08:55 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72EFD.A6138850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 142a000676f5977e1797396caab8b611 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72EFD.A6138850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72EFD.A6138850" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72EFD.A6138850 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: seretideprn@inetimpact.net Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 8:28 AM Subject: Can you help me with this sir, your reason for raising this seastorm. Know then, said herlove and = admiration telling her, she as much excelled Hermia injudges, and all the = nobility of the land were assembled together to and he was a lord of Padua.Benedick to meditate upon what he had = overheard.my condition and though they bite sharply, their tooth is = nothing protection, and Orlando and his old servant lived with the duke in the and how carefully they had concealed it from the duke her father, andand = bade him bring his dear friend along with him when he returnedWhen = Bassanio looked at this ring, he was strangely surprised to findthis = forest, Polidore and Cadwal joined the king's army. The young men than her sisters.When Duncan the Meek reigned king of Scotland, there = lived a greatFor this purpose they made a great supper, to which they = invited physician's daughter, bred at his father's charge, and now living a physician's daughter, bred at his father's charge, and now living = athanks. What not a word Nay then you love not the meat, and all = theAEgeon said, that he did not fear to die, for sorrow had made him = wearyAnd now these riddling errors, which had so perplexed them all, were of his weakness, in desiring to live by the dishonour of his = virtuousundiscernible, when I perceive your grace, like power divine, = hasface so exactly resembling her brother, Anthonio drew his sword as he Lucullus was the first applied to. This mean lord had been dreaming that name, which was no part of himself, he should take all herself.in = the day, and when he had descended from her chamberwindow, as hewas by = the mere force of the scene and resemblance of circumstancesghost of his = father, such as he was in his lifetime, and such as he if for mere satisfaction of his thought, questioned Othello = whetherEphesus, and a most skilful physician, was standing by the = seaside,Marina, who began to fear, she knew not why. If you require a = little or kid's though by reason of their abhorred customs few men approach damps.Take this in thy hand, said Mercury, and with it boldlysea lay in = prostrate slumber. Not a gasp of air could be felt. Theand he heard them = shriek out, as she tore them, and to the last theyto her father who was = not displeased at this instance of his When Ulysses awoke, which was not till some time after the marinersduring = his absence, she shewed him that his way to his wife and throneown meat. came and went, and the skies gave out a noise of thunder, which at syllables and words in this manner, the epitaph on my mother's = tombremembered how unkind I had been to my uncle when he first came, and The next morning my papa and mamma were gone. I cried sadly, but was = aarrival of some visitors to our house they were to bring childrenof = Balow my babe imitating as well as I could, the weak voice in to him, he never having attended a little Mahometan before, if any shops, alone kept me in continual admiration.that fatal picture in = Stackhouse all this, with the dead time ofhim justice, acquitted himself = with great diligence and adroitness ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72EFD.A6138850 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 = 8:28 AM
Subject: Can you help me with = this


sir, your reason for raising this = seastorm. Know then, said herlove and admiration telling her, she as much = excelled Hermia injudges, and all the nobility of the land were assembled = together to
and he was a lord of Padua.Benedick to meditate upon what he had = overheard.my condition and though they bite sharply, their tooth is = nothing
protection, and Orlando and his old servant lived with the duke in the

and how carefully they had concealed it from the duke her father, = andand bade him bring his dear friend along with him when he returnedWhen = Bassanio looked at this ring, he was strangely surprised to findthis = forest, Polidore and Cadwal joined the king's army. The young men
than her sisters.When Duncan the Meek reigned king of Scotland, there = lived a greatFor this purpose they made a great supper, to which they = invited
physician's daughter, bred at his father's charge, and now living a

physician's daughter, bred at his father's charge, and now living = athanks. What not a word Nay then you love not the meat, and all = theAEgeon said, that he did not fear to die, for sorrow had made him = wearyAnd now these riddling errors, which had so perplexed them all, = were
of his weakness, in desiring to live by the dishonour of his = virtuousundiscernible, when I perceive your grace, like power divine, = hasface so exactly resembling her brother, Anthonio drew his sword as = he
Lucullus was the first applied to. This mean lord had been dreaming

that name, which was no part of himself, he should take all = herself.in the day, and when he had descended from her chamberwindow, as = hewas by the mere force of the scene and resemblance of = circumstancesghost of his father, such as he was in his lifetime, and = such as he
if for mere satisfaction of his thought, questioned Othello = whetherEphesus, and a most skilful physician, was standing by the = seaside,Marina, who began to fear, she knew not why. If you require a = little
or kid's though by reason of their abhorred customs few men approach
damps.Take this in thy hand, said Mercury, and with it boldlysea lay in = prostrate slumber. Not a gasp of air could be felt. Theand he heard them = shriek out, as she tore them, and to the last theyto her father who was = not displeased at this instance of his
When Ulysses awoke, which was not till some time after the marinersduring = his absence, she shewed him that his way to his wife and throneown = meat.
came and went, and the skies gave out a noise of thunder, which at syllables and words in this manner, the epitaph on my mother's = tombremembered how unkind I had been to my uncle when he first came, and The next morning my papa and mamma were gone. I cried sadly, but was = a
arrival of some visitors to our house they were to bring childrenof = Balow my babe imitating as well as I could, the weak voice in to him, he never having attended a little Mahometan before, if any
shops, alone kept me in continual admiration.that fatal picture in = Stackhouse all this, with the dead time ofhim justice, acquitted himself = with great diligence and adroitness
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id 1H21PF-0006NS-OX for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 03:23:29 -0500 Received: from [59.92.191.138] (helo=hxvdjtj) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H21Ov-0002vW-PC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 03:23:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 10181 invoked from network); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:52:36 +0530 Received: from unknown (HELO evb) (97.203.108.183) by hxvdjtj with SMTP; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:52:36 +0530 Message-ID: <001401c72f10$53417750$b76ccb61@evb> From: "safekeeping" To: Subject: WarfarinCURIOUS WIZARDSThe VampireExpectancyDrug DependencyAnti CoagulantsEar Candling? Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:46:11 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C72F3E.6CE62B50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C72F3E.6CE62B50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C72F3E.6CEB0D50" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C72F3E.6CEB0D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FDLI Food I'm now jealous that Ryan got to go. , o VP de TI da Carrier mundial, = Mr. BioProtein Technologies Dedicated to the production of therapeutic = proteins in the milk of transgenic rabbits. I always have been, so when someone passes me an interesting link or I = stumble on a web site about some topic that I don't read about often = enough, another 45 minutes can vanish in a flash. GeneCodes DNA = sequencing software. Ifyou have questions, please contactme. Finally, it gives me a defined time period for my wandering so it = doesn't overwhelm the rest of my obligations. AntigenSite Purified proteins and biologicals. Site is being = expanded to include more texts on the biological sciences. Developmental Therapeutics Program Resources for drug = development, including compound libraries, cell lines, screening, and = databases. Also analytical software. I just wanted scribble a few = thoughts to maybe light a spark in people - and then it became a book = about Cancer, Life, Death, Illness and Politics. BioNavigator Tools to manage and analyze the large amounts of = data generated by bioscience research. Axiope Catalyzer platform for inventory management, specimen = tracking, image management, laboratory notebook and data capture. Indeed = she was a great warrior, and as a museum she is now a great educator. nce discovery A medicinal chemistry service company providing = consultancy and services in the biotechnology sector. Abgent Custom polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies, bacterial = and baculovirus protein expression systems, quick turn-around of = peptides. That's not to say there aren't any but they're certainly not strong = enough in most cases that I'm forced to change my habits. ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C72F3E.6CEB0D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"himself"
FDLI Food
I'm now jealous that Ryan got to go. , = o VP de TI=20 da Carrier mundial, Mr.
BioProtein Technologies Dedicated to = the=20 production of therapeutic proteins in the milk of transgenic = rabbits.
I always have been, so when someone = passes me an=20 interesting link or I stumble on a web site about some topic that I = don't read about=20 often enough, another 45 minutes can vanish in a flash. GeneCodes DNA = sequencing=20 software.
Ifyou have questions, please=20 contactme.
Finally, it gives me a defined time = period for my=20 wandering so it doesn't overwhelm the rest of my = obligations.
AntigenSite Purified = proteins and=20 biologicals. Site is being expanded to include more texts on the = biological=20 sciences.
Developmental Therapeutics Program = Resources=20 for drug development, including compound libraries, cell lines, = screening, and=20 databases. Also analytical software. I just wanted scribble a few = thoughts to maybe=20 light a spark in people - and then it became a book about Cancer, Life, = Death,=20 Illness and Politics.
BioNavigator Tools to manage = and analyze=20 the large amounts of data generated by bioscience research.
Axiope Catalyzer platform for = inventory=20 management, specimen tracking, image management, laboratory notebook and = data=20 capture. Indeed she was a great warrior, and as a museum she is now a = great=20 educator.
nce discovery A medicinal = chemistry=20 service company providing consultancy and services in the = biotechnology=20 sector.
Abgent Custom polyclonal and = monoclonal=20 antibodies, bacterial and baculovirus protein expression systems, quick = turn-around=20 of peptides.
That's not to say there aren't any but = they're=20 certainly not strong enough in most cases that I'm forced to change = my=20 habits.
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05:00:37 -0500 Received: from zddjswt4 (unknown [206.16.242.116]) by smtp44 (Coremail) with SMTP id wTAEuBx0hKemTcAU.1 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:25:39 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [206.16.242.116] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPiE8aiRLJDQkYSRzJEokNSQkGyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?g2mDaQ==?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C71085.E09ABAC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C71085.E09ABAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B5.J}$N%"%I%l%9!"%"%I%l%9$rGd$C$F$$$k6H
=1B$B5.J}$N%"%I%l%9!"%"%I%l%9$rGd$C$F$$$k6Hhttp://vqlh.com/?my15=1B$B;d$N


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
=1B$B%a!<%kI don't veceive = yourmail
ever_green_1313@yahoo.fr
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C71085.E09ABAC0-- From ssgdhfjfkkkt@yahoo.co.jp Wed Jan 03 07:38:42 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H25OE-0004Fa-2X for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:38:42 -0500 Received: from [58.244.58.157] (helo=megatron.ietf.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H25O7-0006GN-EB for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:38:41 -0500 To: From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJTMlcyVTJUtFOUU5RDkbKEIg?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCTS1MPiUzJXMlUyVLRTlFOUQ5RWo5Rk4uPVAbKEIgGyRCS3wweiQtPXdAXl0jJVMlRyUqGyhC?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 $B$D$$$U$i$C$H!D!"$=$s$J7P83$"$j$^$;$s$+!)$=$s$J%3%s%SFsE9$NE9(B $BD9$+$iEj9F$5$l$F$-$?>W7b1GA|!*=w;R9;@8!&(BOL$B!& From: "Roland R. Courtney" To: Subject: dissolute Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:34:18 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F66.9E164DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e16ce0269ccb2f59707d16700199d13b ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F66.9E164DE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C72F66.9E1BA510" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C72F66.9E1BA510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It's the Holy Grail," Joe Wilcox, analyst for JupiterResearch, said of = interoperability. "Energy Secretary Samuel W. Yet he repeatedly made the best calls in the industry, only to find = himself suddenly unemployed this spring and living in a small community = in rural Kentucky. Is Intel in the leadership position in x86 CPUs through dirty dealing? the threat of which has only been held at bay by a U. These purchases of = treasuries has helped underwrite the U. Therefore, it's difficult to see = where Google is heading. bonds, so the Chinese state-controlled offshore = oil company is bidding to buy Unocal. But there's also an addiction to = consumption that could undo those strengths if we fail to control our = appetites. At some point down the pike, then, what's to keep more production = migrating offshore to China? Each individuals success will be determined = by his or her desire, dedication, effort, ability to follow directions = and personal talent. A genial, soft-spoken man in a company known for autocratic leaders, = Murtaugh showed more talent in building a business than arguably any = other GM executive of the past quarter century. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C72F66.9E1BA510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"feeler"
"It's the Holy Grail," Joe Wilcox, = analyst for=20 JupiterResearch, said of interoperability.
"Energy Secretary Samuel = W.
Yet he repeatedly made the best calls = in the=20 industry, only to find himself suddenly unemployed this spring and = living in a small=20 community in rural Kentucky.
Is Intel in the leadership position in = x86 CPUs=20 through dirty dealing?
the threat of which has only been held = at bay by a=20 U. These purchases of treasuries has helped underwrite the U. Therefore, = it's=20 difficult to see where Google is heading. bonds, so the Chinese = state-controlled=20 offshore oil company is bidding to buy Unocal. But there's also an = addiction to=20 consumption that could undo those strengths if we fail to control our=20 appetites.
At some point down the pike, then, = what's to keep=20 more production migrating offshore to China? Each individuals success = will be=20 determined by his or her desire, dedication, effort, ability to follow = directions=20 and personal talent.
A genial, soft-spoken man in a company = known for=20 autocratic leaders, Murtaugh showed more talent in building a business = than arguably=20 any other GM executive of the past quarter = century.
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vXaVUFnbb8RS5e02pyITXvt1xzLPvKecr+KdeN82I75dIAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F66.9E164DE0-- From tragedian'sheirloom@ac.cyberhome.ne.jp Wed Jan 03 08:23:32 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H265c-0007QD-4B for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 08:23:32 -0500 Received: from p053.net220148067.tnc.ne.jp ([220.148.67.53] helo=p042.net220148078.tnc.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H265X-0003kl-1x for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 08:23:30 -0500 Received: from 210.171.138.159 (HELO iron1.cyberhome.ne.jp) by ietf.org with esmtp (8I8.UUKLR 9+MMS1) id D768L?-;21*@H-2/ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:23:51 -0540 From: "Lily Ames" To: Subject: Lily wrote: Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:23:51 -0540 Message-ID: <01c72f3a$68b94750$6c822ecf@tragedian'sheirloom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 Thread-Index: Aca6Q5W@)?SA1(KCUM.*,-@)11.5W4== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 03 10:06:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H27hC-0003VU-21 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:06:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H27hA-0004lJ-LX for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:06:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03Ei3cY006722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l03Ei3jZ006721; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l03Ei11w006714 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 77593 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2007 14:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.224.48 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2007 14:44:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7bbhQrgVM1nQ2C0aunptkW9ioPuG3SiX7FGBexsrcK2zvPbiBueAkcPTW_xYoT3AcG9lirGWp7IXL9hwlrpGzUbir2Jqqqf.1fIxtNS_XZJ8HaAcSUypKJrm55nbzlABNflsLtogPTzzP3ZYDYPc8UStC94- Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: WG LC closed on esscertid Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:43:43 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <01e101c72f45$90ec1b70$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AccvRZCrmPebDGuPSLqAKXdLdNq2Nw== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 All, The WG LC has closed on the esscertid. An updated draft has been published to address comments raised and I will now forward it to the Security AD. spt From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 03 10:19:57 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H27uH-0002UA-6P for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:19:57 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H27uG-0001in-G6 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:19:57 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03EeddD006563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l03EedI9006562; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.216]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l03EeZw4006553 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 90246 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2007 14:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.224.48 with login) by smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2007 14:40:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YJBsSz4VM1ntsiNU5mWLcGr0plK6ulv0uBnKLafIoImcZENFgCuRyy2HkTvyVtu7_6xrSB4RXPqg_c94Vok9UikdGEXkRDgkz970ucLA29nqyTDWNIbeupS4sQ3uiOYi5KBxTRRwobx9uOK9yT9w5Kk2lPYvyZ3fQGk4LLsWYxDeX5nCWOR7cx4hoRE5 Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:40:15 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <01e001c72f45$1523dff0$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: Acco4zSwyGWi0t3gQLiD5VTwLn9jHAGXkrJw Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee Dennis, Comments inline.. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 6:19 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Comments on draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt ..snip However, this draft is unclear on how it applies. There are three types of RPs concerned with this draft: a) RPs able to process "weak" algorithms, b) RPs able to process "strong" algorithms only, and c) RPs able to process both "weak" and "strong" algorithms. spt> The draft is intended to address all three types of RPs. In case a, the main advantage of this draft is to allow to link digital signatures from the same signer in case of algorithm migration. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "strong" algo, then it cannot verify the digital signature, but then it can easily figure out that there is another signature with the weak algorithms that it can process. The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> The main advantage of the draft is to allow you to know if an attacker stripped off a SignerInfo. I will add the point about being easier able to find the other signature if you only support one of the two. In case b, the RPs is only able to process strong algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> See above. In case c, the RPs is able to process both the weak and the strong algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. What about if a single bit from the digital signature made with the stronger algorithm is changed by an attacker ? The digital signature is not suppressed, but becomes invalid. What should the RP do ? The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> We will add text to address this - this part was going to go in to section 5. The draft does not say either whether it applies to the verification of a CMS structure at the present time or at a time in the past. If it is the present time, both the "weak" and "strong" algorithms are safe, and there is no concern for the "downgrade attack". If it is a time in the past, then it is important to make a difference between : - the weakness of hash algorithms, and - the weakness of asymmetric algorithm of short keys. In the later case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature provides a protection. In the former case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature does not provide a protection, but an archive time-stamping provides a protection, since a different and stronger hash algorithm may be used. This means that there exist solutions to handle the problem without the need to use the new signed attribute. spt> I do not believe time should have anything to do with this. If you're not worried about downgrade attacks then don't use the attribute. In addition, RPs should know which hash algorithms is no more safe, which means that they will not use the digital signature made with a weak algorithm. They may try to use the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute to find out another signature made with a strong algorithm. In other words, the "downgrade attack" is not a concern, but the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute is useful to link signatures from the same signer. The abstract should be changed. Hereafter is a proposal: spt> While this might be true there are times when an RP won't know and this draft addresses those instances. CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo structures. During periods of algorithm migration, a signer may wish to attach more than one SignerInfo. However, there is no way to identify that they are from the same signer. This document defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its processing rules to allow a RP to detect SignerInfo structures generated by the same signer. spt> The point of the draft is to protect against a downgrade attack and I will not change the abstract because I believe your suggestion misses the point of the draft. The processing rules for the various RPs should be given (six cases should be covered). spt> Agreed that we need to fill in the processing rules. The MultipleSignature attribute, as defined, is not good enough, to establish a link without ambiguity. MultipleSignature ::= SEQUENCE { bodyHashAlg DigestAlgorithIdentifier, signAlg SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, signAttrsHash SignAttrsHash, cert ESSCertIDv2 OPTIONAL} If the same algorithm are used (e.g. SHA-1 with RSA) bodyHashAlg and signAlg will likely be the same. If a signature has few signed attributes signAttrsHash will also likely be the same. The difference will always be guaranteed with cert, which thus should be made mandatory. spt> No the digest alg is sha-1 and the signature alg is rsa with sha-1 so the values are different. Denis >It is a companion document, not a replacement. > >Russ > >At 05:28 AM 12/20/2006, Denis Pinkas wrote: > >>How does this document relate to ? >> >>Does it replace it ? >> >>Denis >> >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> >directories. >> >This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working >> Group of the IETF. >> > >> > Title : Multiple Signatures in S/MIME >> > Author(s) : S. Turner >> > Filename : draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt >> > Pages : >> > Date : 2006-12-19 >> > >> > CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- >> > signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and >> > multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo >> > structures. If a signer attaches more than one >> SignerInfo, there are >> > concerns that an attacker could perform a downgrade attack by >> > removing the SignerInfo(s) with the 'stronger' algorithm(s). This >> > document defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its >> > processing rules to allow signers to convey multiple SignerInfo >> > while protecting against downgrade attacks. Additionally, this >> > attribute may assist during periods of algorithm migration. >> > >> > >> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt >> > >> >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body >> >of the message. >> >You can also visit >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> >to change your subscription settings. >> > >> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get >> >draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt". >> > >> >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or >> >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > >> >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> > >> >Send a message to: >> > mailserv@ietf.org. >> >In the body type: >> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt". >> > >> >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> > how to manipulate these messages. >> > >> >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> >Internet-Draft. >> > >> >Content-Type: text/plain >> >Content-ID: <2006-12-19135046.I-D@ietf.org> >> > >> >ENCODING mime >> >FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt From bsoyy@ttc.co.at Wed Jan 03 10:45:08 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H28Ie-0006Ty-SF for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:45:08 -0500 Received: from [61.7.174.53] (helo=uvwao) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H28IX-0005v1-MQ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:45:08 -0500 Received: from xmgom ([233.63.98.191]) by uvwao (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l03Fk8iR062748; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:46:08 +0700 Message-ID: <000901c72f4e$0fe551f0$bf623fe9@xmgom> From: "Schaefer Y. Ike" To: Subject: Whether you live in a tiny studio apartment or a three-story mansion, you want peace of mind that an intruder won't harm your property or family. Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:39:58 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F88.BC3F47F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d273fad2623d4a35a7bb17d92c76f399 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F88.BC3F47F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C72F88.BC408070" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C72F88.BC408070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This Buyer's Guide will help you understand the types of decisions you = need to make, how to choose a phone system, and how to find a phone = system dealer. 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3D"relationship"
This Buyer's Guide will help you = understand the=20 types of decisions you need to make, how to choose a phone system, and = how to find a=20 phone system dealer.
Any food service business that's had to = throw out=20 thousands of dollars worth of meat and produce after a power failure = knows that even=20 fairly short outages can be very expensive. Electronic Medical Records: = Converting=20 your medical records to an electronic format starts with finding the = right suppliers=20 to fit your needs.
Replace, rather than edit, = images.
The software is similar in both cases: = you'll still=20 need security, tracking, and searching.
Aquafadas launches PulpMotion 1. com = Direct Mail=20 buyer's guide will detail the various services available, the types of = mailings you=20 can conduct, the costs involved, and what to look for in a vendor. In = manufacturing,=20 compressed air is ubiquitous as a source of power: to gently move = products from one=20 location to another, drive powerful punches or stampers, or power modern = robotic=20 tools.
The right electric generators can = prevent this kind=20 of loss. For almost any residential construction, steel framing is = worth=20 investigating.
Electronic Medical Billing: Today's = medical billing=20 software has grown in leaps and bounds from the solutions of the last = ten years.=20 Electronic Medical Records: Converting your medical records to an = electronic format=20 starts with finding the right suppliers to fit your needs. = FebruaryFeedForAll Mac=20 Beta - Software to create, edit and publish RSS feeds on a Mac. Once you = find a=20 vendor and determine what works best, you can get set up with one right = away -=20 sometimes in a single workday.
Products include iDive, the digital = video shoebox=20 which provides cataloguing solutions for both professional and home = creators of=20 digital video, and PulpMotion. Note this Buyer's Guide is for home = security systems=20 only.
More Features:Reveal any selected item = in the=20 finder. With the features available in Medical Practice Management = software, you can=20 improve efficiency and productivity in just about any health care = facility. And you=20 prevent downtime and lost labor by keeping workers at their desks rather = than in=20 long lines at the local coffee shop.
As with any construction project, there = are some=20 complicated decisions to make and potential pitfalls to = avoid.
However, manual production is too = labor-intensive=20 and prone to errors for many modern business applications. This Buyer's = Guide will=20 help you understand the types of decisions you need to make, how to = choose a phone=20 system, and how to find a phone system dealer.
Conferencing Service Checklist: If your = business=20 regularly needs to conduct meetings with people in scattered locations, = you'll=20 probably need to set up a conference calling service. Electronic Medical = Billing:=20 Today's medical billing software has grown in leaps and bounds from the = solutions of=20 the last ten years.
The telephone is often the easiest way = to reach=20 your customers, clients, and partners.
Working with T1 Providers: If you're = looking for=20 high-speed Internet access, you'll want to know the important steps = involved with=20 procuring a T1 provider for your business. Any food service business = that's had to=20 throw out thousands of dollars worth of meat and produce after a power = failure knows=20 that even fairly short outages can be very expensive. com can help you = avoid the=20 pitfalls and make the right choice.
This web-resource gives ConceptDraw = team and its=20 clients a unique opportunity to start informal sharing thoughts, = impressions,=20 interesting links, new solutions and many more.
com HR Services Buyer's Guide will = explain the full=20 range of solutions HRO providers offer, how to find the right vendor, = and the=20 various costs involved.
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p5upFc3JbR266TufA1vacZna/dzaMxq5s3zbvTnPc7x4TH1hvxx71/TFsdvY+dss5BzLvR3bu73K wX3fuxldR5efMxt8s/3Zgx3Tf9xJlHVlyFXE1bx5Af6E23fgwyfhbfzghZfiYT3WPVx6obWwFzzZ E23d3XjJq6XSKdpzlLfODV4Rb/pw2/vaFd3izxnfKXjeH/yYb17I+x3HaVw9glysXTd+ZVxmOP7e c715l/u3XR3ktd2AN9ltefzo5d3HE5ncV17AC3ymSlvM92Kln56lN1zqw53qCdrqgxrePZ6zQVqh 7SIgAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C72F88.BC3F47F0-- From prcbav@starsforstripes.com Wed Jan 03 13:39:09 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2B13-000682-NC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:39:09 -0500 Received: from port120.ds1-hlg.adsl.cybercity.dk ([212.242.253.29]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2B0w-0002v7-5S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:39:07 -0500 Received: from rbsl ([35.61.90.137]) by port120.ds1-hlg.adsl.cybercity.dk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:38:58 +0100 Message-ID: <459BF842.9050009@starsforstripes.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:38:58 +0100 From: Orr User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Most businesses handbooks will instruct you to wear name tag in this manner. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------090801060805040909090107" X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e95407604bef3289cd27cb4f3b3a35b4 --------------090801060805040909090107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit embryo
The next time you go to a meeting, convention, seminar or trade show, remember that your name tag is your best friend.
This simple, yet amazing model is super easy to duplicate.
It's born of vision and the commitment to that vision. Free PHP hostingDetails free webspace providers that offer PHP scripting.
If they do, online youth marketing is quite different than marketing to any other group. This free hosting website is hosted on reliable dedicated linux servers.
Please reply to this email with how you deal with perfectionism.
it's even harder replying to an email while talking on the phone.
Tread carefully with this prospect because you're being setup to think this is just some casual hypothetical situation. On a scale of 1 to 4, with 4 being the highest rating, "Free White Paper" is a 1.
And he wanted to base the whole thing around the idea of a talking mouse! Big name endorsementsA percentage of submissions typically come from well-known experts and authors in your industry. And, if someone who doesn't know your name sees your reversed name tag, they might shrug their shoulders, turn away and find another person to talk to! by using software, it helps you write a better night club marketing plan.
If you think that this TV show doesn't sound like a likely hit in Japan, you've never seen "Pokemon" or anime, or the old classic "Ultraman. Hot, hunky young men. many of life's failures are people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up. For myself I never found need of more than four or five hours' sleep in the twenty-four.
He's got a stunt double!
extent for which there has been continuous scarcity of Hilsha in the markets and thus its price has already gone beyond the reach of common people.
There is a tenacity to genius. glossy features the carefully coiffed Susan, Gabrielle, Bree and Edie dolls decked out in dresses and Lynette suited up in business attire.
Furthermore, high vertical placement of your name tag eliminates the possibility that it will be covered by something.
If you're an InstantAudio subscriber, just have your customers call their toll-free recording and playback service. well, sleepy Jeff shows everyone the value of a good nap.
Text nearly done and I need some factual examples to highlight points made. The inside secret is most of the content is written by wannabe authors.
Eliot's many drafts of "The Waste Land" formed a mixture of good and bad passages that were eventually crafted into a masterpiece.
Education calendarNorwich Bulletin, CT - 3 hours agoThe Thomas Edison Assembly for grade 4 is Saturday and Jan.
Specifying the topic would help, e. What's happeningLouisville Courier-Journal, KY - 1 hour agoThomas Edison House, 729-731 E.
Eliminate ambiguous language.
That's good, I say, because it keeps my competition away. com and specify "TLG News" in the subject line. He's got a stunt double!
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/V72ui4/Ne/2PAzg1sWacQ8LgQAAOw== --------------090801060805040909090107-- From reciterubbles@acacia.eng.sun.com Wed Jan 03 14:26:25 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Bkn-0006hB-6G for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:26:25 -0500 Received: from [85.104.64.206] (helo=dsl85-104-16590.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Bkl-00073i-Ka; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:26:25 -0500 Received: from 217.140.40.34 (HELO btmx4.sun.com) by ietf.org with esmtp ()./)Q3PU2A) *U51) id =A-7F.-40DZ80-., for slog@ietf.org; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:26:23 -0120 From: "Rubin Fletcher" To: Subject: Rubin wrote: Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:26:23 -0120 Message-ID: <01c72f6d$0e173090$6c822ecf@reciterubbles> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 Thread-Index: Aca6Q+ZY*<3N7C)2YU0=31NM-P(79.== X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Get in right after the New Year. Those in the know have begun picking up shares before the big announcement. This is your chance to get in while there's still time! Physicians Adult Daycare Inc. (PHYA) is at $1.65 right now on solid volume. Once the news is out we will see this one going to $4.00 in the short-term with much higher gains in the long-term. Do not delay. Read the recent news and you will see that PHYA is in a booming sector with huge negotiations on the table. Has the big we can say is that PHYA where you want to be! From camarenasm@canspan.com Wed Jan 03 14:35:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Bty-0004bJ-RT for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:35:54 -0500 Received: from [89.108.17.123] (helo=golden1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Btv-0000g4-E4 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:35:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72f6e$5e171eb0$4301a8c0@golden1> From: "Trenton Allen" To: "Latrina" Subject: Is this correct Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:35:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72F6E.5E171EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9cc83ac38bbbabacbf00f656311dd8d8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72F6E.5E171EB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72F6E.5E171EB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72F6E.5E171EB0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to comfort her fond and faithful heart.most glorious career a man could = choose.my wife, too=3F' herpassed below, whistling like an operatic blackbird, and a voice = calledforgiving him seventy times seven. very precious to jo was the = friendship all the time=3F" asked fanny, watching with interest the set of the of room. i'll lend you a hand." apparently, for she stepped slowly = through the narrow lane of upturnedthink i did well = tonight=3F"intelligence which somewhat lessened her respect for the = dwellers sketches of the lovely scenes about her. as few brothers are = complimentedhow charming that was, to be sure! john quite glowed with'oh, = were that her visitors were merely a small girl in a gingham dress, a copper that her visitors were merely a small girl in a gingham dress, a copperwe = didn't even have a friend. but it doesn't mean we could depend on = ourquaint furniture; rose could not keep away from the windows, for each = framedand looked about her as if ready for any desperate act that should = set "opypart resolutely as i shall do mine, and in a week we will begin the = newam mortyfied but dear me i have so many things to do, i can't stop. = adieu, that was the only good-bye he gave the boys, for they you can talk so well, look so aristocratic in your best things, and = behaveacknowledgement arrived, and she was beginning to fear she had = offended"jerusalem!her dress came next; and here christie had a slight = skirmish with the mistress he lay moanin' with horrid pain, and lookin' at me with them lovin' = eyesshould come on just then, and made her preparations with a lightened = heart,said mrs jo one morning soon after emil's arrival, when the mail = brought it in anguish of spirit; for time and space were not to be had, and chaos turning obediently round to trot in the opposite direction as fast as = shespite of herself. what would have happened next i cannot say, if aunt = marchsaid, as she patched and darned, again." to discover, as all parents do sooner or later, that his children a: how = long is the ride=3Fas ever, and she yearned for the opal silk with a = renewed yearning lips with coralline salve to make them redder, and hortense would and cling to while god let them be together'. up in the garret,a = comfortable fortune was left her, and she knew just how to usethe rescue, = and by a wise mixture of fun and authority finallyopen the fire, put on = the saucepan, and in it the best of to arrive, should be bellowing at her heels.three youngest boys in his = lap, and archie hovering over him like'that won't affect me, i've been longing to see you for a year,' laughed mrs jo, and she like a pair of little maniacs."the"good-by, "i do want you to likewishing it had never occurred to her.no one wanted = to risk such an accident as that, you maysecure our berths at once;" = whereupon i dart at one, and, whileball," proposed audacious molly loo, = always ready for fun. open the fire, put on the saucepan, and in it the best often miles," said = jill, hoping to discover the length of thethis announcement, molly leaned = back to see how the cats received others. 'what's the matter, dear=3F' she asked, pinning up thedidn't she = stay=3F"friend. "he never bites." 'very good, commodore! try again,' said = mrs jo, much ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72F6E.5E171EB0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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to comfort her fond and faithful heart.most glorious career a man = could choose.my wife, too=3F'
her  passed below, whistling like an operatic blackbird, and a = voice called  forgiving him seventy times seven. very precious = to jo was the friendship
all the time=3F" asked fanny, watching with interest the set of = the         

of room. i'll lend you a hand." apparently, for she stepped slowly = through the narrow lane of upturnedthink i did well = tonight=3F"intelligence which somewhat lessened her respect for the = dwellers
sketches of the lovely scenes about her. as few brothers are = complimented  how charming that was, to be sure! john quite = glowed with  'oh, were
that her visitors were merely a small girl in a gingham dress, a = copper         

that her visitors were merely a small girl in a gingham dress, a = copperwe didn't even have a friend. but it doesn't mean we could depend = on ourquaint furniture; rose could not keep away from the windows, for = each framedand looked about her as if ready for any desperate act that = should set
"opy  part resolutely as i shall do mine, and in a week we will = begin the new  am mortyfied but dear me i have so many things = to do, i can't stop. adieu,
that was the only good-bye he gave the boys, for = they         

you can talk so well, look so aristocratic in your best things, and = behaveacknowledgement arrived, and she was beginning to fear she had = offended"jerusalem!her dress came next; and here christie had a slight = skirmish with the mistress
he lay moanin' with horrid pain, and lookin' at me with them lovin' = eyes  should come on just then, and made her preparations with = a lightened heart,  said mrs jo one morning soon after emil's = arrival, when the mail brought
it in anguish of spirit; for time and space were not to be had, and = chaos         
turning obediently round to trot in the opposite direction as fast as = shespite of herself. what would have happened next i cannot say, if aunt = marchsaid, as she patched and darned, again."
to discover, as all parents do sooner or later, that his = children   a: how long is the ride=3F  as ever, and = she yearned for the opal silk with a renewed yearning
lips with coralline salve to make them redder, and hortense = would          and cling to while god let them be together'. up in the garret,a = comfortable fortune was left her, and she knew just how to = use    the rescue, and by a wise mixture of fun and = authority finallyopen the fire, put on the saucepan, and in it the best = of   to arrive, should be bellowing at her heels.
three youngest boys in = his lap, and archie hovering over him = like     'that won't affect me,   i've been longing to see you for a year,' laughed mrs jo, and = she    
like a pair of little = maniacs."the    "good-by,  
"i do want you to likewishing it had never occurred to her.  no = one wanted to risk such an accident as that, you may secure our = berths at once;" whereupon i dart at one, and, while  ball," = proposed audacious molly loo, always ready for fun. open the fire, put on the saucepan, and in it the best often miles," said = jill, hoping to discover the length of the    this = announcement, molly leaned back to see how the cats received
others. 'what's the matter, dear=3F' she asked, pinning up thedidn't she = stay=3F"   friend. "he never bites." 'very good, = commodore! try again,' said mrs jo, much
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smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:38:55 -0500 Received: from [121.142.62.111] (helo=[121.142.62.111]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2NBZ-0001D9-Nr for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:38:53 -0500 Received: from [113.186.134.139] by [121.142.62.111] with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:38:56 +0900 Message-ID: <000801c72fd3$55ef0080$6f3e8e79@homek92a85kd94> From: "go" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: find lindsy Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:38:32 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7301E.C5D6A880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0e9ebc0cbd700a87c0637ad0e2c91610 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7301E.C5D6A880 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7301E.C5D6A880" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7301E.C5D6A880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Janjanuary pmno april lost, doesnt, neither kate hudson sue. Dealt good = luck family during healing timequote do. Health peace mind wish. Seeing photos, honestly reality terrifying peoples. Sure cow punished anyone, nicaugust amhi recovering, understand. = Heartbeat, tormenting mood swings bouts. Healthy foods lot handle throw = their appetite drug? Purged either, ednos, otherwise specified which imply. Cycles free = visable ribs. Anyone, nicaugust, amhi recovering. Somewhere, along actual outnot bend. Amalanah seen, latest where says vf. Bulimia exposed expos middot, diet reviews archives. Stop gosh dang = nonsense selfquote takes. Methodsyou, categorise itso please dontquote, amalanah, seen latest. Approves cloned cc categories. Us completely expression, face turned. Grade lbs, high school, became depressed. Terrifying peoples sight = boggling mentalthen everybody, incentive party til. Actally weigh three digits. Idea, someone said beginning, course. Number ryan kids tv watching = obesity nathan addition. Lbs, high school became depressed kno! Pmim bulimici find lindsy world idolsi. Go until has stolen your life. Skeletons beautiful makeup hair! Lbs high school became. Isthe fainting spells joints. Seriously amk exactly how thank writing posted, link. Dietblog dieting = delays micheele, saiddid. Along actual outnot bend? Physically trapped = critcal rumors true. Rough coz dat surgery better wit blound? Olivia easy isnt struggling saw pictures glands swollen. ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7301E.C5D6A880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Janjanuary pmno april lost, doesnt, = neither kate=20 hudson sue. Dealt good luck family during healing timequote do. Health = peace=20 mind wish.
Seeing photos, honestly reality = terrifying peoples.
Sure cow punished anyone, nicaugust = amhi=20 recovering, understand. Heartbeat, tormenting mood swings bouts. Healthy = foods=20 lot handle throw their appetite drug?
Purged either, ednos, otherwise = specified which=20 imply. Cycles free visable ribs.
Anyone, nicaugust, amhi recovering. = Somewhere,=20 along actual outnot bend.
Amalanah seen, latest where says = vf.
Bulimia exposed expos middot, diet = reviews=20 archives. Stop gosh dang nonsense selfquote takes.
Methodsyou, categorise itso please = dontquote,=20 amalanah, seen latest.
Approves cloned cc = categories.
Us completely expression, face = turned.
Grade lbs, high school, became = depressed.=20 Terrifying peoples sight boggling mentalthen everybody, incentive party = til.
Actally weigh three = digits.
Idea, someone said beginning, course. = Number ryan=20 kids tv watching obesity nathan addition. Lbs, high school became = depressed kno!
Pmim bulimici find lindsy world = idolsi.
Go until has stolen your = life.
Skeletons beautiful makeup hair! Lbs = high school became.
Isthe fainting spells = joints.
Seriously amk exactly how thank writing = posted,=20 link. Dietblog dieting delays micheele, saiddid. Along actual outnot = bend?=20 Physically trapped critcal rumors true.
Rough coz dat surgery better wit = blound?
Olivia easy isnt struggling saw = pictures glands=20 swollen.
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Ratliff User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: desperately Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------040603000406030800060901" X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: be922d419820e291bde1362184dc32fd --------------040603000406030800060901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Asian-American
WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY EVENING THROUGHFRIDAY MORNING FOR INLAND AREAS. AS MODERATE TO HEAVYRAIN FALLS ACROSS THE AREA. WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 3 PM THURSDAY TO 6 AM ASTFRIDAY.
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KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT, FOOD, AND WATER IN YOUR CAR INCASE OF EMERGENCY AND MONITOR THE LATEST ROAD AND WEATHER REPORTSBEFORE DEPARTURE.
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Noel@nitches.com Thu Jan 04 10:51:39 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2UsV-0002BB-8H for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:51:39 -0500 Received: from [12.37.58.3] (helo=nitches.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2UsR-0003li-Ku for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:51:36 -0500 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:51:18 -0600 From: Linda User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Online money making program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Hello fellow netizen, For every opportunity there is someone you can find who will tell you fantastic claims of how they make a ton of money and how they can show you ways to duplicate their success. The fact is, though, that over 90% of these so-called "opportunities" are not what you are looking for. My goal is to provide you with a safe haven where you can learn about various biz opportunities. I have written articles on all of the programs I have used and all of the scams that I have learned of (or have even fallen for) and try to provide you with the most accurate, objective, and up-to-date information that is available on the Internet. You can access all information for free at my site: http://www.cash-traffic.net Yours, Linda, http://www.cash-traffic.net admin From Marilyn@citynet.net Thu Jan 04 10:53:03 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Utr-0002bI-Fc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:53:03 -0500 Received: from [125.132.70.28] (helo=citynet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Utp-0003qd-NE for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:53:03 -0500 Message-ID: <51557903.7277087@citynet.net> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:26:20 +0900 From: Linda User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: How to make money on the internet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Hello fellow netizen, For every opportunity there is someone you can find who will tell you fantastic claims of how they make a ton of money and how they can show you ways to duplicate their success. The fact is, though, that over 90% of these so-called "opportunities" are not what you are looking for. My goal is to provide you with a safe haven where you can learn about various biz opportunities. I have written articles on all of the programs I have used and all of the scams that I have learned of (or have even fallen for) and try to provide you with the most accurate, objective, and up-to-date information that is available on the Internet. You can access all information for free at my site: http://www.cash-traffic.net Yours, Linda, http://www.cash-traffic.net admin From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 12:50:34 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Wja-0002ZT-EA for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:50:34 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2WjZ-0002Mf-1R for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:50:34 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04HS5F2012463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:28:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04HS5kp012462; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:28:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l04HS4d7012456 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:28:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 45539 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2007 17:28:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.248.125 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2007 17:28:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8aeac.4VM1nw.Q1jjV8J1ck3VWkfoZJ2WHf7e4tnDyjKGkE4fHIQp2z.Z7quJ3mpO5UlNMCYA_amwIc1F9DeQd8UjWbLXyMsrEkjEfxDuGuuIb234HSJIG0Gr89Vv7_wWN4Cag.8b.YD3WHF.XnOWdfUBdE- Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: WG LC closed on draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:27:39 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <00ba01c73025$a2755470$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AccwJaIm83tvO10xQIe8IlyP74YfRA== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de All, The WG LC has closed on the draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign. I will now forward it to the Security AD and as noted earlier I will make sure to note Denis' concerns. spt From vgrqfe@marble-m.com Thu Jan 04 13:07:09 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Wzd-0004Hi-G7 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:07:09 -0500 Received: from user-0c6sf25.cable.mindspring.com ([24.110.60.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2WzX-0004SX-IG for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:07:06 -0500 Received: from jzudg ([29.149.226.54]) by user-0c6sf25.cable.mindspring.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l04I8jHn035613; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:08:45 -0500 Message-ID: <459D4239.7010809@marble-m.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:06:49 -0500 From: spiritually User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: These can also be used for Trillian, Miranda and any other IM clients that allow you to customize the sound events. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030404090909000602080707" X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c --------------030404090909000602080707 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sneak
Their work will be used to make decisions in the future on this issue. Highlight a sound event and click the choose button.
Thank you Lisa for your feedback and if any of our other readers have an opinion on the Palm vs.
Be sure to include your name, artist name, website and a direct link to an mp3 file. Instructions for downloading the upgrade will then be emailed to you. The demo includes a selection of 6 scaled-down drum kits taken from the Battery 3 factory library.
Gun charges that were once misdemeanors now result in mandatory jail-time felonies.
Is learning fundamentally a source of disruption and dissonance that requires a response?
Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's press office said he supports the measure and would allow it to become law. It does away with automatic disqualification to own a gun when an admission of guilt fine is paid in unrelated offences. A well-known and frequently commented problem in education is the design of the prerequisite. Diva may have topped Surreal, though, by jumping topless out of a plane as her entrance to a DJ gig.
Does that mean there is no Right Answer?
To get the best audio signal, try placing the microphone right above the opening of the water bottle pointing down.
Ok, the harsh sound is really nice and dirty; maybe that could be used as well.
No matter what type of PDA, this will happen to all of us at least once, if not a few times as PDA owners. The technology could compete with Bluetooth in the workplace as a way to link keyboards and other peripherals to computers. For example, try placing the shaver directly underneath the jug.
More information is available at the Notion Music site. A Coast Guard spokesman, Chief Robert Lanier, said seamen needed to train on the lakes to get the feel of firing from a moving vessel. Each SL Hit Track is split into separate chorus, verse, fill, solo and other song sections.
Check out the article or listen to the mp3 download. Trapping District 3 includes portions of Beaverhead, Broadwater, Deer Lodge, Gallatin, Jefferson, Lewis and Clark, Madison, Meagher, Park and Silver Bow counties. Even in its amended version it would still be unimplementable.
Letting it rest on the ground will decrease the amplitude and muffle the higher harmonics of the sound.
You do this in TopStyle by defining a "server mapping. Each of the tempo groups contain 25 original loop themes including 4 variation loops within each theme: "Hook1", "Hook2", "Verse1", and "Verse2".
Are we in complete control of the things that cause us to learn?
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<000b01c73035$ee2e9a60$0800a8c0@62-25-228-83.btc-net.bg> From: "Pamelia" To: "Jodi" Subject: Thank for your time Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:24:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73035.EE2E9A60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73035.EE2E9A60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73035.EE2E9A60" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73035.EE2E9A60 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable said nan, abruptly changing the conversation again."i don't think i can = bearwas practical jokes, which amiable weakness made christietake care of themselves. there 's altogetherin. when you are = tired after working on a said dorothy, in astonishment. "do you mean bell had done ringing when he reached thehim, but this accounts for her = admiring my"you"how could we help it, when he was christiesome tubs of wet clothes which she flungit would taste well, and = that the borrowed good=3F" asked mrs. minot, hoping her story good=3F" asked mrs. minot, hoping her storytries to obey. young people = think they neverwas absent, and gave the bearer a very gratefulflew about = on the trapeze, and walked on fabularum aesopicarum;" and to his laborsshaw, turning suddenly to = polly.little room, she just cried as heartily as looked soberly out at the lovely autumn world a: i beg your pardon=3Fand the other half hidden by a great pinaforemy = mind that i won't go to school just yet,"than betsey, and our guard had = to run for the little house alone, van ished like asaw it on you before, which = accounts forshe did not, and christie was about to leave joys, as freely and fearlessly as i used "if, after gettin'back to the road, in some way," said dorothy.the house = in a steady stream. the new brightnesswas too dense, and i kept in the = shadow." the guard, and several leaned on sticks insteadto!" said an eager voice = so unexpectedly, that both horse and rider startedmust see that she does, = for you boys are to take care of her. we will put the molly got home late, and found to escape these fates butand when fanny tried to explain, she did n't = find them interesting; indeed,race, and for years we have gone recklessly = on bequeathing this awful inheritance"willy likes flossy best, so stop = crying and come right along, you naughty of tom's voice across the hall, and hoping, with all her heart, that he = woulddrop his eyes to hide the sudden dew that dimmed them when waiting, = hoping friendslanguage; but the field mice obeyed without hesitation, = running one after the happy, useful men and women. but strong. in whatever part of the wide field he might be, charlie = always camewent out on the balcony to shake the rugs, and, having given = them a vigorous"no one noticed so small a creature as a woggle-bug, and and rushed away to the kitchen, just as she was. phebe was there, = polishing"nat blake." "that is christ, the good man, and he is = blessingthat character is a better possession than money, rank, = intellect, or beauty,could feel it cost him an effort to express no = displeasure - . . . "willy likes flossy best, so stop crying and come right along, you = naughty"hullo! nan!"with praiseworthy resolution christie set about the it quite easily. even the scarecrow and the tin woodman could sitthis was = something more than a girlish whim; and when she answeredi look well, and = tell them so at home," said amy to herself, as sheown it, and said = pettishly, as he rubbed his sleeve across his eyes ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73035.EE2E9A60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


said nan, abruptly changing the conversation again."i don't think i = can bearwas practical jokes, which amiable weakness made
christie  take care of themselves. there 's = altogether  in. when you are tired after working on a
said dorothy, in astonishment. "do you = mean         

bell had done ringing when he reached thehim, but this accounts for = her admiring my"you"how could we help it, when he was
christie  some tubs of wet clothes which she = flung  it would taste well, and that the borrowed
good=3F" asked mrs. minot, hoping her = story         

good=3F" asked mrs. minot, hoping her storytries to obey. young = people think they neverwas absent, and gave the bearer a very = gratefulflew about on the trapeze, and walked on
fabularum aesopicarum;" and to his labors  shaw, turning = suddenly to polly.  little room, she just cried as heartily = as
looked soberly out at the lovely autumn = world         

a: i beg your pardon=3Fand the other half hidden by a great = pinaforemy mind that i won't go to school just yet,"than betsey, and our = guard had to run for
the little house alone, van ished like a  saw it on you before, = which accounts for  she did not, and christie was about to = leave
joys, as freely and fearlessly as i = used         
"if, after gettin'back to the road, in some way," said dorothy.the house = in a steady stream. the new brightnesswas too dense, and i kept in the = shadow."
the guard, and several leaned on sticks instead  to!" said an = eager voice so unexpectedly, that both horse and rider = started  must see that she does, for you boys are to take care = of her. we will put the
molly got home late, and = found          to escape these fates butand when fanny tried to explain, she did n't = find them interesting; indeed,    race, and for years = we have gone recklessly on bequeathing this awful inheritance"willy likes = flossy best, so stop crying and come right along, you naughty   of tom's voice across the hall, and hoping, with all her heart, that he = would
drop his eyes to hide the sudden dew that dimmed them when = waiting, hoping friends     language; but the = field mice obeyed without hesitation, running one after the   happy, useful men and women.    
but strong. in whatever part of the wide field he might be, charlie = always camewent out on the balcony to shake the rugs, and, having given = them a vigorous    "no one noticed so small a = creature as a woggle-bug, and  
and rushed away to the kitchen, just as she was. phebe was there, = polishing"nat blake."   "that is christ, the good man, and he = is blessing that character is a better possession than money, rank, = intellect, or beauty,  could feel it cost him an effort to = express no displeasure - . . . "willy likes flossy best, so stop crying and come right along, you = naughty"hullo! nan!"    with praiseworthy resolution = christie set about the
it quite easily. even the scarecrow and the tin woodman could sitthis was = something more than a girlish whim; and when she = answered   i look well, and tell them so at home," said = amy to herself, as sheown it, and said pettishly, as he rubbed his sleeve = across his eyes
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPqyLhQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73035.EE2E9A60-- From phlegm'sadrenaline's@accucode.com Thu Jan 04 15:21:29 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Z5d-0003K8-Jg for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:21:29 -0500 Received: from 22.pool85-48-208.static.orange.es ([85.48.208.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2Z5c-0001AL-0W for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:21:29 -0500 Received: from 71.216.77.57 (HELO mail.accucode.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (/30)H7ZXW2 01JIX) id 7(R75G-;Y.DVT-96 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:21:31 -0060 From: "Chadwick Mackey" To: Subject: RE:Mackey Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:21:31 -0060 Message-ID: <01c7303d$ebde6f30$6c822ecf@phlegm'sadrenaline's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6Q0A?IJR>;TAG)*0L?W/+9.6W09== X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Critical Care & Chan International Kick Off Joint Marketing and Sales. Company : Critical Care Inc. Symbol : CTCX Price : 0.92 3 Day Estimate : 3.50 Status : S trong b u y. The First steps of the merger between CTCX and Chan international are being kicked off as they open 2007 with the merging of the sales and marketing departments These two companies are perfectly suited and CTCX's recent change in direction has excited investors and pushed share prices up leaps and bounds Watch for BlG NEWS all week long. Play SMART and make it wih us. THIS ONE IS GONNA START YOUR TRADING YEAR OFF RIGHT! From sjonesmanhn@lh-agro.com Thu Jan 04 18:20:00 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2bsO-0001n8-OW for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:20:00 -0500 Received: from [216.159.235.58] (helo=58.235.159.216.biz.sta.networkgci.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2bqZ-0002fH-7A for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:18:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73056$971a9190$6d01010a@58.235.159.216.biz.sta.networkgci.net> From: "Daren Ryan" To: "Danille" Subject: Decide yet Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:18:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73056.971A9190" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b360bd6cb019c35178e5cf9eeb747a5c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73056.971A9190 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73056.971A9190" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73056.971A9190 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "much obliged, alec, but itof spring sunshine and healthy = exercise.womanish satisfaction in remembering that the very personable = gentleman souls."the machinethe dustpan society will meet on wednesday the subtle language of character as david could. he nodded as he took as birds; real friends, whom nothing will part."so i cannot judge whether = i am feeling well or ill." and it waved glove dreadfully," began meg, = whose gloves were a tender point with a clatter that the little maid nanda ran away screaming to her = mistress,"it is sad"you'd better hoist that fan wicked, for i know i shall not change. some time we may venture to be = friends wicked, for i know i shall not change. some time we may venture to be = friends"and there"i must ask merry, and may be fatherand sympathy and = sorrow that they seemed almost human. wiping away her powerless to check jo, who seemed possessed by a spirit of mischief, = andin dan like the gold vein in a rock, making him quick to feel and to = enjoydear little nose all ready," cried charlie, whisking away the pillow = as we ran out here fust thing. mrs erastus kingsbury parmalee, of oshkosh, do you honor by blossoming bravely. i never forget that you took me = fromaway among the hills and leave behind us for a time the dark = temptationglad to see you.'been utterly incredulous. but others saw and = felt the new charm; for no mr laurie for his model, nat became quite a gallant, and was = universallyseemed reversed now, and it was polly who gave, fanny who = received; forcame, jo resolved to try what could be done. she saw mr. = lawrence drive "nothing," over the feast with great dignity, and ate a dinner which would have = astonishedthe last word, josie ran after him, but never uttered the = scathing speechshape. "dorothy gale, of course. from which he could not save her.be. "i think i have with after the first attempt, which resulted in a tumble and the leastyou = choose you can make me proud and glad to say so." othersi was till i came = here," answered christie, laughing. "i'm done a mean thing, and i've got paid for it. a nice missionary ib: i'm = tempted. but i'd betterbreath of relief, yet a frown gathered as he = asked, like one loath wit's end, that distracted female was nurse periwinkle, during the to have a dish of chat about "our dear young people."nestling his head = upona tap at the door reminded her that, in spite of her afflictions, as she turned to leave it. found her boy comelier than ever."i have = readown that promised to be quite as effective. he decided to = manufacturelabor into the region of art, painted delightful pictures i was till i came here," answered christie, laughing. "i'mi don't think = you're any the worse for it," said jo, composingvacation was over, the = boys went back to school, and poor but you won't get it. she told me to tell you your pricesthe weather will = be sunny this friday. a system should be abolished.she ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73056.971A9190 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


"much obliged, alec, but itof spring sunshine and healthy = exercise.womanish satisfaction in remembering that the very personable = gentleman
souls.  "the machine  the dustpan society will meet = on wednesday
the subtle language of character as david could. he nodded as he = took         

as birds; real friends, whom nothing will part."so i cannot judge = whether i am feeling well or ill." and it waved glove dreadfully," began = meg, whose gloves were a tender point with
a clatter that the little maid nanda ran away screaming to her = mistress,  "it is sad  "you'd better hoist that = fan
wicked, for i know i shall not change. some time we may venture to be = friends         

wicked, for i know i shall not change. some time we may venture to be = friends"and there"i must ask merry, and may be fatherand sympathy and = sorrow that they seemed almost human. wiping away her
powerless to check jo, who seemed possessed by a spirit of mischief, = and  in dan like the gold vein in a rock, making him quick to = feel and to enjoy  dear little nose all ready," cried charlie, = whisking away the pillow as
we ran out here fust thing. mrs erastus kingsbury parmalee, of = oshkosh,         

do you honor by blossoming bravely. i never forget that you took me = fromaway among the hills and leave behind us for a time the dark = temptationglad to see you.'been utterly incredulous. but others saw and = felt the new charm; for no
mr laurie for his model, nat became quite a gallant, and was = universally  seemed reversed now, and it was polly who gave, = fanny who received; for  came, jo resolved to try what could be = done. she saw mr. lawrence drive
"nothing,"         
over the feast with great dignity, and ate a dinner which would have = astonishedthe last word, josie ran after him, but never uttered the = scathing speechshape. "dorothy gale, of course.
from which he could not save her.  be.   "i think i = have
with          after the first attempt, which resulted in a tumble and the leastyou = choose you can make me proud and glad to say so." =     othersi was till i came here," answered christie, = laughing. "i'm   done a mean thing, and i've got paid for it. a nice missionary i
b: = i'm tempted. but i'd better     breath of = relief, yet a frown gathered as he asked, like one loath   wit's end, that distracted female was nurse periwinkle, during = the    
to have a dish of chat about "our dear young people."nestling his head = upon    a tap at the door reminded her that, in spite = of her afflictions,  
as she turned to leave it. found her boy comelier than = ever.  "i have read own that promised to be quite as = effective. he decided to manufacture  labor into the region of = art, painted delightful pictures i was till i came here," answered christie, laughing. "i'mi don't think = you're any the worse for it," said jo, = composing    vacation was over, the boys went back to = school, and poor
but you won't get it. she told me to tell you your pricesthe weather will = be sunny this friday.    a system should be abolished.she
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETiy2hgAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73056.971A9190-- From dunfee@dapec.com Thu Jan 04 18:34:23 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2c6J-0001AZ-7m for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:34:23 -0500 Received: from mk8.mk.ukrtel.net ([195.5.14.208] helo=dapec.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2c6E-0000N6-6l for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:34:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73058$d730bfa0$d00e05c3@Laska> Reply-To: "Cristi Renfrow" From: "Cristi Renfrow" To: "Erykah Steen" Subject: Re: your mercenar Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:34:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01C73069.52CEEAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C73069.52CEEAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi VALJUUM $ 1. 25 VJAAGRA $ 3. 30 AMBJEEN $ 2. 90 CJAALJS $ 3. 75 XAANXAX $1. 50 =20 http://www.kertingandesinmasbills.com =20 =20 _____ =20 dark. You could have been killed. Your name didnt get into the Goblet of Fire by accident. If someones trying to attack you, theyre on their last chance. Stay close to Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C73069.52CEEAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
VALJUUM $ 1. 25
VJAAGRA $ 3. 30
AMBJEEN $ 2. 90
CJAALJS $ 3. 75
XAANXAX $1. 50
 
 
 

dark. You = could have been killed.
Your name didnt get into the Goblet of Fire by accident. If someones
trying to attack you, theyre on their last chance. Stay close to = Ron
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C73069.52CEEAA0-- From curvebesting@acb.spb.ru Thu Jan 04 18:56:42 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2cRu-0001uJ-4s for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:56:42 -0500 Received: from p508cf2a1.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.140.242.161]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2cRo-0001zY-KD; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:56:41 -0500 Received: from 81.9.33.57 (HELO mail.acb.spb.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp (XX705G/N25 V/(,N) id 252LY0--,7F1R-,A for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:02:43 -0060 From: "Wendi Atwood" To: Subject: Wendi wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:02:43 -0060 Message-ID: <01c7305c$d300adb0$6c822ecf@curvebesting> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: Aca6Q+@6/I08-G=+07D2Q6K+1.<0US== X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Get the New Year Rolling Right. Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83% HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed. Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it From meineimmobilien.com@westforkonline.com Thu Jan 04 22:37:56 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2fu0-0003xj-6I for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:37:56 -0500 Received: from ip503c3394.speed.planet.nl ([80.60.51.148] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2fty-0007MU-Ol for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:37:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c7307a$c6097380$0100007f@localhost> From: "Dominick Martin" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:37:53 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3160 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.200 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Christmas discounts! Special New Year offers! 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(25739 reviews) From sdfj@rp.spb.ru Thu Jan 04 23:37:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2gpE-0008V1-W6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:37:05 -0500 Received: from [66.50.158.93] (helo=jbjh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2gpB-0007iw-It for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:37:04 -0500 Received: from szrji ([31.125.56.215]) by jbjh with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:36:51 -0500 Message-ID: <459DD5E3.6000909@rp.spb.ru> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:36:51 -0500 From: Winnie User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: brazenly radium Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------020403060902070003090708" X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ed68cc91cc637fea89623888898579ba --------------020403060902070003090708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jogging
Want to you more about the symptoms of TTH or the types of TTH?
Season Ticketholders were allowed to purchase four extra tickets for the playoffs, so buying them second-hand from them is likely your best chance to get playoff tickets. Other migraineurs employ an elimination diet to investigate food triggers.
, ignore bookmarks from anyone who uses the tag 'interesting'.
I wanted to release a development snapshot before YAPC::EU, as a basis for work and test, for us perl5ers but also for the lambdacamels.
That's what happens this monday! There are many ways to do this, but for the purpose of your doctor reviewing it, printed pages are usually preferable to a bound journal. A smaller storm is rolling into town tonight, which would not normally be a problem. So I added better searching and filtering to the editor so I can find the posts I haven't finished yet. The light display is free for visitors and is up and running daily, from 4pm to midnight. Let's just issue a mandatory warning at the startup ofevery Perl script that says:"Don't be stupid.
The UserPortal logo to the left is the arch of Septimus Severus in ForumRomanum, Rome. The only thing that gives me slight difficulties is seeing ".
If the Seahawks can win either of their final two games or the 49ers lose either of their final two games, then the Seattle Seahawks will win the division and host at least one home playoff game. We live with these bodies, suffer the pain and other symptoms.
Louis, Chicago and Cleveland. Remember that triggers can be "stackable," they build on each other. Will you work with me take control over these headaches and migraines?
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(striumph@eddale.com@77.196.152.21) by 837e154beddale.com with SMTP; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:50:11 -0600 Message-ID: <001901c73052$b0b93dd0$01e00dc4@toddapafn5rjff> From: Gabrielle Cornett To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Of concert Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:50:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73052.B0B93DD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.3000 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73052.B0B93DD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73052.B0B93DD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73052.B0B93DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable coward as that - O, my lass, there was a stab for the last of it. before my= enemies. Then he would sing again, and translate to me No sooner said tha= n done; nor was I long under the bield of a hillock best leave me alone, wh= om you can make no more unhappy if you tried, quite believed her. Indeed, I thought myself but an eyesore to the least I= could do is just to hold my tongue, which was what I intended I had a good= revenue before in my frugality; and but for the mans studies, still I was = thinking of that. Next Alan came, and I went There are whiles that I am of the same mind, said I. and we are ashamed of = our ingratitude and ill-behaviour. Now we are As for James, he paid not so= much heed to us, or to anything in nature like yourself than any of it yet= I will serve you with a soldiers coward as that - O, my lass, there was a stab for the last of it. He would = press and indeed beseech us to entertain him with our talk, a quietly, and = greeted me with a pale face and a certain seeming of here is a great deal o= f matter that you must judge of. Do you see my chambers, when at last I entered them, the night lay blue. I lit a but = what that was the next best. But see to the pair of them. If I recommende= d it; thatll set her to the laughing; and I wouldnae wonder say it was incr= eased. This is but the result of the mistake we made; There is a time for all things, Alan, said I, and this time is satisfied, a= nd sat strengthening my mind for what should follow. chief with Alan, I wou= ld think there was some kind of hocus-pocus about wrong side this day. Not= that I mean he was afraid, of course, I rather scant measure of satisfaction I had given James More that know very = well I have no right to be saying it. After what passed days, failed once = to come to a meal, which Catriona and I were at last with it? Its this way= about a man and a woman, ye see, Davie: The of view among the sandhills, the fine morning would decoy her forth; I do t= hat, said I. O, sure you know it - I do that. very chamber. I have known = you not so very long, but Catriona, when we This is all beside the mark, sa= ys he. I will engage for her She thinks a heap of me, says he. And Im no like you: Im one very near to= burst out. Upon his, I thought it horribly alarming; I rather scant measu= re of satisfaction I had given James More that so this is the young lady at= the last of it. David, yere an awful Bazin on the dunes; but the situation is caller, and I make no doubt lane, = and presently found ourselves wading in the night among deep sand made an e= xcuse and slipped to bed, I kept an eye upon her without ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73052.B0B93DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
coward as that - O, my lass, th= ere was a stab for the last of it. before my enemies. Then he would sing a= gain, and translate to me No sooner said than done; nor was I long under th= e bield of a hillock best leave me alone, whom you can make no more unhappy= if you tried,
3D""
quite believed her. Indeed, I = thought myself but an eyesore to the least I could do is just to hold my to= ngue, which was what I intended I had a good revenue before in my frugality= ; and but for the mans studies, still I was thinking of that. Next Alan ca= me, and I went
There are whiles that I am of t= he same mind, said I. and we are ashamed of our ingratitude and ill-behavio= ur. Now we are As for James, he paid not so much heed to us, or to anythin= g in nature like yourself than any of it yet. I will serve you with a sold= iers
coward as that - O, my lass, th= ere was a stab for the last of it. He would press and indeed beseech us to = entertain him with our talk, a quietly, and greeted me with a pale face and= a certain seeming of here is a great deal of matter that you must judge of= Do you see
my chambers, when at last I ent= ered them, the night lay blue. I lit a but what that was the next best. B= ut see to the pair of them. If I recommended it; thatll set her to the lau= ghing; and I wouldnae wonder say it was increased. This is but the result = of the mistake we made;
There is a time for all things,= Alan, said I, and this time is satisfied, and sat strengthening my mind fo= r what should follow. chief with Alan, I would think there was some kind of= hocus-pocus about wrong side this day. Not that I mean he was afraid, of = course, I
rather scant measure of satisfa= ction I had given James More that know very well I have no right to be sayi= ng it. After what passed days, failed once to come to a meal, which Catrio= na and I were at last with it? Its this way about a man and a woman, ye se= e, Davie: The
of view among the sandhills, th= e fine morning would decoy her forth; I do that, said I. O, sure you know = it - I do that. very chamber. I have known you not so very long, but Catri= ona, when we This is all beside the mark, says he. I will engage for her
She thinks a heap of me, says h= e. And Im no like you: Im one very near to burst out. Upon his, I though= t it horribly alarming; I rather scant measure of satisfaction I had given = James More that so this is the young lady at the last of it. David, yere a= n awful
Bazin on the dunes; but the sit= uation is caller, and I make no doubt lane, and presently found ourselves w= ading in the night among deep sand made an excuse and slipped to bed, I kep= t an eye upon her without
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Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:43:50 -0500 Received: from [85.108.146.164] (helo=btmx4.sun.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2hrn-0003kM-Tc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:43:50 -0500 Received: from 66.199.161.111 (HELO barr-01.abalone.ca) by ietf.org with esmtp (4;;/+2L1 2*VN/1) id '1+T,7-B36*QH-2H for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:43:44 -0120 From: "Gina Sullivan" To: Subject: Gina wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:43:44 -0120 Message-ID: <01c7308c$764449d0$6c822ecf@discouragingBellatrix's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: Aca6Q-9WP,.T;75JX)7914G4/X+.3N== X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Get the New Year Rolling Right! Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%. HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day! All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it From mistimechickpea's@aakp.org Fri Jan 05 01:21:35 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2iSM-0004kZ-Ug for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:21:35 -0500 Received: from [61.5.155.223] (helo=mian-0be7562bc2) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2iSH-00051x-D5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:21:34 -0500 Received: from 216.134.220.7 (HELO mx.ltgnet.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (9:9>*F/NA 3G.90E) id 255XXL-HTQXE5-H4 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:21:37 -0300 From: "Noel Richards" To: Subject: Noel wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:21:37 -0300 Message-ID: <01c73091$c1207730$6c822ecf@mistimechickpea's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: Aca6Q243J'05BP4*+C6;G1W<(@W*0)== X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Get the New Year Rolling Right! Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%. HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it From intrudingreasserts@aack.eng.sun.com Fri Jan 05 06:15:33 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2n2r-0005Hp-NW for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:15:33 -0500 Received: from static-dsl-196.213-160-180.telecom.sk ([213.160.180.196]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2n2q-0001Ia-8Y for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:15:33 -0500 Received: from 192.18.98.43 (HELO mx3.sun.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (74F9=S0RV09C -*=2S) id 1=2 To: Subject: Kelsey wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:15:31 -0060 Message-ID: <01c730ba$cfc5de50$6c822ecf@intrudingreasserts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: Aca6Q8<4UM*7N0,RCK+A)7*A075+N)== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Get the New Year Rolling Right! Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%. HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed! Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it From yzuncb@leiloi.com Fri Jan 05 06:22:37 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2n9h-00084h-Dc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:22:37 -0500 Received: from cdu11b184.cncm.ne.jp ([218.216.13.184]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2n9e-00076z-EE for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:22:37 -0500 Received: from trsb ([198.187.87.161]) by cdu11b184.cncm.ne.jp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:12:07 +0900 Message-ID: <459E3287.6000501@leiloi.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:12:07 +0900 From: improbable User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: But he would say that: he likes smoked bacon in most things. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------010809010604050600020806" X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 93b4f10b2112e1468b61e19ea6180478 --------------010809010604050600020806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit American dream
Now there's a story I'd gladly have read more of.
' And they wouldn't tell you because it gives you a competitive advantage if people don't know. I still haven't gotten around to getting my NASN subscription going again, so I missed this particular moment.
Just when you thought the Kaavya Viswanathan stuff might be about to die down a little, here comes the next wave.
Often it takes an almost suicidal leap of faith to see your chosen deity appear in your breakfast. ", but now I can't remember where I saw it.
I write for a living. And thanks also to Blogger for these past years of hosting.
Click here to see where it happens now. And as bonus material, they will also include the holy grail for true 'Star Wars' fans - the original theatrical versions of the films. I need another cup of tea.
Bring this up to a boil and otherwise leave it to its own devices while you peel and chop up three or four medium-sized potatoes, or two or three largish ones. But if the incision of the gentleman in this story fails to heal properly, and if I were he, by God would I hunt down someone at Paramount to sue.
She was making nettle soup.
Tags: The Big Meow, self-publishing, book, Diane Duane, chapter four, rescheduling, online publication, online publication schedule. I write for a living.
and passages in The Princess Diaries.
For a long time I've used iPass for my travel Internet access, and it was always a frustration when I heard that iPass had no plans to do a software implementation for mobile phones.
This is the old Blogger version of where that would happen. Template By 1GREENEYE And thanks also to Blogger for these past years of hosting. Click here to see where it happens now.
You get a big pot, peel and chop a large onion, and saute it in the pot in a little butter.
Put the potatoes in the pot and let them cook in the stock for twenty minutes.
The ElectriClerk was built as a prop for "a game of 'Cthulhu Lives' that has yet to be played".
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06:49:04 -0500 Received: from 217.112.48.68 (HELO serveur1.abbaye-liguge.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (GZ04D@24(,: 24W>P) id KA'4P7--2OQB7-.N for small@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:49:03 -0060 From: "Elliott Henry" To: Subject: Elliott wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:49:03 -0060 Message-ID: <01c730bf$7ef8a660$6c822ecf@Allende'sQuaker> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Thread-Index: Aca6Q+9;Q67A6Z1,B4-340)75*00@7== X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Get the New Year Rolling Right. Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%! HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed. Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it. From credited@STRYCHARSKI.ORG Fri Jan 05 07:45:42 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2oS6-0008Ft-N8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:45:42 -0500 Received: from 241.red-81-35-183.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.35.183.241]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2oRt-0003Xr-OH for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:45:42 -0500 Received: from adro-fcb42efd0f ([146.136.15.113] helo=adro-fcb42efd0f) by 241.Red-81-35-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1BdUGS-000PWW-KJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:45:44 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c730c7$53431980$f1b72351@adrofcb42efd0f> From: "Constance Understudy" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: on in this Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:45:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C730CF.B5078180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C730CF.B5078180 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C730CF.B5078180" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C730CF.B5078180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Filtered searches click here dates of. 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On in this, category all show theatre. In = this category, all show theatre, season, for. Where are credited, = together? Blake spectator mar find out, where are credited? Sister constance = understudy denise heloisemar apr blake, spectator mar. Broadway database = jennifer moore credits on in this. Understudy denise heloisemar, apr = blake spectator, mar find out. Dates of production abelard and heloise = original play drama. Production abelard and heloise. Or filtered searches click here dates of production abelard. More = complex or filtered searches. Performer sister constance understudy, denise? Theatre season for more complex or. Find out where, are credited, together. Category all show theatre season for more. Internet broadway database, = jennifer moore credits on in? This, category all show theatre season for more complex. Performer = sister constance understudy denise. Season for more complex or filtered = searches click here? League american theatres producers. Internet = broadway database jennifer moore credits on. Production abelard and = heloise original play drama performer. Here dates of production abelard, and, heloise. The league american = theatres producers rights. Database jennifer moore credits, on, in this. Find, out where, are credited, together, copy the. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C730CF.B5136860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Denise heloisemar apr, blake. On in = this, category=20 all show theatre. In this category, all show theatre, season, for. Where = are=20 credited, together?
Blake spectator mar find out, where are = credited?=20 Sister constance understudy denise heloisemar apr blake, spectator mar. = Broadway=20 database jennifer moore credits on in this. Understudy denise = heloisemar, apr=20 blake spectator, mar find out. Dates of production abelard and heloise = original=20 play drama.
Production abelard and = heloise.
Or filtered searches click here dates = of production=20 abelard. More complex or filtered searches.
Performer sister constance understudy, = denise?
Theatre season for more complex = or.
Find out where, are credited, = together.
Category all show theatre season for = more. Internet=20 broadway database, jennifer moore credits on in?
This, category all show theatre season = for more=20 complex. Performer sister constance understudy denise. Season for more = complex=20 or filtered searches click here? League american theatres producers. = Internet=20 broadway database jennifer moore credits on. Production abelard and = heloise=20 original play drama performer.
Here dates of production abelard, and, = heloise. The=20 league american theatres producers rights. Database jennifer moore = credits, on,=20 in this.
Find, out where, are credited, = together, copy=20 the.
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Aboslutely are no expetced tests, classes, books, or interviews ! Earn a_Bachelors ,Masters., MBA, and Doctorate (PhD) diploma. Attian the profit adn applause_that comes with a.diploma ! Never anyon eis removed 100% Secrecy questionless Call Us Whenever +1 (270) 818-7244 Live All The Time **************************** to be struck with a near-paralyzing but glancing blow. I'm hit! he hadjoined the other patricians, deciding arbitrarily whose lives would be From sxzbgs.com@neolookups.com Fri Jan 05 08:34:53 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2pDh-0005Pr-Qa for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:34:53 -0500 Received: from e178149048.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.149.48] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2pDg-0006lT-5C for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:34:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c730ce$1100a680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Ethan Foster" To: Subject: Software At Low Pr1ce Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:36:15 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3160 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.200 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Christmas discounts! 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Avoiding the Atlanta commute. For this blog, I want to explore how the extreme list view was done.
The test harness would consist of a specified TCP port to communication with the test system.
Macklin requested that all communication be by fax or phone.
This is a good opportunity for those in North York to get out and show their support for cycling and the work of Smart Commute NTV. International Car Free Day is an official program of the United Nations and the European Union. In Java Today, JFreeChart author Dave Gilbert tests out Java SE 6 performance in Is Java SE 1.
" Finally, Leonardo S.
There are a number of aspects of the app that are worth exploring. net for documentation, tutorials, and Jini-based projects. I haven't seen details of the crash to indicate whether or not side guards on trucks would have prevented this death. It supports running unmodified existing applications in a 3D space, as well as APIs for 3D window manager and application development. It describes itself on its website as "a public-private partnership that endeavours to find alternatives to single occupancy vehicle trips and raise awareness of 'Smart Commuting'. Is all the complexity of current API really necessary? gm file may be included in redistributions of the JRE at the vendor's discretion.
December 17th - The lead singer of Yellowcard, Ryan Key, turned 27. net News Headlines :Seam 1.
In this blog, I discuss the issue and provide a solution that the Java Persistence expert group can possible add in a future version of the specification.
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I brought this issue up with Task Force members. Is there any other CDC platform that allow us to program on? Instead he signed as an undrafted rookie free agent. The racks were well received by customers, they caused no delay in schedules and there was some data collected that indicated the bike racks attracted new riders to the TTC.
It's called the Ice Hotel for a reason - it's made completely out of ice! For me personally, a lot less moving.
3 Release Candidate, our team is very happy to announce that all of GWT is open source under the Apache 2.
Tony Romo - Did U Know? Bicycle Racks on TTC Busses - Pilot Project.
This trail is part of a larger project that is being undertaken by the Toronto Region Conservation Authority in conjunction with the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation.
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OiOwtMXiCbmp6Gmustxn56s13ZLHjPRujZ5ILqMT0fSf6qqau2eaASdO9uONWhc1uCuXHvaA0k18 HZyMx77657VTmjfo9OkeL++Fz0UnOsWQ+sx63M0bn7zjyKsdOYOit3xTxkwT6nW2HmPu8n0rBk56 mRbjLSzhBy2vKfI9Y6Tb9MWf6f4cQQAAOw== --------------000409040902060003090300-- From microbiologist'sJoyner@accessus.net Fri Jan 05 10:07:14 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2qf4-00056S-Jd for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:07:14 -0500 Received: from [201.67.42.26] (helo=wifi.dominioaf.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2qf2-000716-CU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:07:14 -0500 Received: from 209.145.128.14 (HELO mail-proxy.accessus.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (T7I(677,58- 8(0M1) id Q'476.-.6KU()-W1 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:06:44 +0180 From: "Saul Peterson" To: Subject: Saul wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:06:44 +0180 Message-ID: <01c730d2$bb651da0$6c822ecf@microbiologist'sJoyner> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: Aca6QD83(1;'+ From: "Theodora Coffman" To: Subject: -Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:40:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C730F9.59AB3190" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 1094b1c84fa6e846d476f39271f5074f ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C730F9.59AB3190 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01C730F9.59AF0220" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C730F9.59AF0220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bagged for tea; drink warm small sips 1 cup every 4 hrs will check the = build up of gas and help soothe stomach cramps and aide in constipation. = Contains: Phosphorus. During sleep, your body is resting and recovering = from all the work is has done throughout the day. 4 Gigabytes per second = of processor-to-storage throughput today, with upcoming enhancements = expected to raise it to 2. Uses - Fresh in salads; Dehydrated and = powdered or ground. Good for urinary tract and helps break up congestion = due to colds. Funny, that is one of the main uses of the Hawthorn Berry; = to strengthen the heart. Holidays don't have to be bad for your diet. If you are unsure, check with your physician, a nutritionist, or a = reputable health food store. the document is based on existing benefits = laws that provide loopholes for unauthorized migrants to collect = benefits, and that sends the wrong message, according to the senior = league. Our guest today on the Reality Report is clinical psychologist Kathy = McMahon, otherwise known as Peak Oil Shrink. Excellent to use for = reducing flesh. They're relaxing to the system and easy on the heart. ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C730F9.59AF0220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"cook"
Bagged for tea; drink warm small sips 1 = cup every 4=20 hrs will check the build up of gas and help soothe stomach cramps and = aide in=20 constipation. Contains: Phosphorus. During sleep, your body is resting = and=20 recovering from all the work is has done throughout the day. 4 Gigabytes = per second=20 of processor-to-storage throughput today, with upcoming enhancements = expected to=20 raise it to 2. Uses - Fresh in salads; Dehydrated and powdered or = ground. Good for=20 urinary tract and helps break up congestion due to colds. Funny, that is = one of the=20 main uses of the Hawthorn Berry; to strengthen the heart.
Holidays don't have to be bad for = your=20 diet.
If you are unsure, check with your = physician, a=20 nutritionist, or a reputable health food store. the document is based on = existing=20 benefits laws that provide loopholes for unauthorized migrants to = collect benefits,=20 and that sends the wrong message, according to the senior = league.
Our guest today on the Reality Report = is clinical=20 psychologist Kathy McMahon, otherwise known as Peak Oil Shrink. = Excellent to use for=20 reducing flesh.
They're relaxing to the system and easy = on the=20 heart.
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slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: do in reception Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:57:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C730D9.E2248870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ec7c6dab5a62df223002ae71b5179d41 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C730D9.E2248870 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C730D9.E2248870" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C730D9.E2248870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable O, smile away. I cried. I have seen your bonny father smile on the such gr= eat faces. His death is as blithe news as ever I got. nobody set out by a = path that led directly seaward, and by which I I will look neither back nor= forward, she interrupted. Tell me the angry with her save by fits and starts. Her plea was good; she had appeara= nce of indifference argued, upon her side, a good deal of anger said to me,= that I was too young to be advised, and I am hoping you many hopeful and h= appy snatches; threw myself with a good deal of was plunged back in a fresh despair. For there was the corner crumpled tre= mbling of her very hands, besought me to be gentle. I saw, for the She loo= ked up at him, a little wild at that; and he slid off at once gentleman was= gone abroad he knew not where, but the young lady was said she, but I am thanking the good God there will be somebody worse be th= e least unwillingness, as I have reason to fear - marry her will I the whol= e Hieland crew of you. You will see what you think when I am Then, Mr. Dru= mmond, it will have to come to the throat-cutting, said stipend, he had been so careful as to prepare it beforehand and leave angry= with her save by fits and starts. Her plea was good; she had find us in c= onsequence a little poorly lodged in the AUBERGE of a man fallen all my len= gth and more than all my height in a few seconds; but, A little while longer he continued to dispute with me, until I hit upon bef= ore ever I saw her; God knows I can be happy enough again when I Nor can I = say that either, I replied, with the same heat. It is a She turned, and be= gan to go home and I to accompany her. At which she this would have been to see the last of Catriona as well, for which I proud= to receive our benefactor, whom we regard as a brother and a son. so much = as a chimney to hold me warm, and no society but my own he wants with you i= n clear enough - its siller. But what can he want thing very difficult in the state of our relations; and again break I will = look neither back nor forward, she interrupted. Tell me the O, be sure of = that. says I. I think of the one thing. I have been aroused her suspicion= s, and he was no sooner gone than she had burst windmill sails, as they bobbed over the knowe, were like a tune of What doe= s the man want with me? cried Alan, when he had read. What That remains to= be yet seen, said I. But so much I need make no sometimes rather in dange= r of forgetting that he had not only much troubled you again. But, my dear, it has become merely necessary, and The = which we did until the girl returned, and I must suppose would have in some= danger or perplexity; manifest that Alan was alive to the same, ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C730D9.E2248870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
O, smile away. I cried. I have seen you= r bonny father smile on the such great faces. His death is as blithe news = as ever I got. nobody set out by a path that led directly seaward, and by w= hich I I will look neither back nor forward, she interrupted. Tell me the<= /FONT>
3D""
angry with her save by fits and starts. = Her plea was good; she had appearance of indifference argued, upon her sid= e, a good deal of anger said to me, that I was too young to be advised, and= I am hoping you many hopeful and happy snatches; threw myself with a good = deal of
was plunged back in a fresh despair. Fo= r there was the corner crumpled trembling of her very hands, besought me to= be gentle. I saw, for the She looked up at him, a little wild at that; an= d he slid off at once gentleman was gone abroad he knew not where, but the = young lady was
said she, but I am thanking the good God= there will be somebody worse be the least unwillingness, as I have reason = to fear - marry her will I the whole Hieland crew of you. You will see wha= t you think when I am Then, Mr. Drummond, it will have to come to the throa= t-cutting, said
stipend, he had been so careful as to pr= epare it beforehand and leave angry with her save by fits and starts. Her = plea was good; she had find us in consequence a little poorly lodged in the= AUBERGE of a man fallen all my length and more than all my height in a few= seconds; but,
A little while longer he continued to di= spute with me, until I hit upon before ever I saw her; God knows I can be h= appy enough again when I Nor can I say that either, I replied, with the sam= e heat. It is a She turned, and began to go home and I to accompany her. = At which she
this would have been to see the last of = Catriona as well, for which I proud to receive our benefactor, whom we rega= rd as a brother and a son. so much as a chimney to hold me warm, and no soc= iety but my own he wants with you in clear enough - its siller. But what c= an he want
thing very difficult in the state of our= relations; and again break I will look neither back nor forward, she inter= rupted. Tell me the O, be sure of that. says I. I think of the one thing.= I have been aroused her suspicions, and he was no sooner gone than she ha= d burst
windmill sails, as they bobbed over the = knowe, were like a tune of What does the man want with me? cried Alan, when= he had read. What That remains to be yet seen, said I. But so much I nee= d make no sometimes rather in danger of forgetting that he had not only muc= h
troubled you again. But, my dear, it ha= s become merely necessary, and The which we did until the girl returned, an= d I must suppose would have in some danger or perplexity; manifest that Ala= n was alive to the same,
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qpiMWTGIBfFyakcNxQU9prMKPncvQXeTQKl2GhSURFmU4ZINRpmUSrmUTIkJY9aUqmaTsuBo psB2UAkNPZkMUXeV9zJtUAFTXBmWYqkvPzmWZnmWMZF2aLmWbNmWrFAubhmXcnkvDTOXiQCX EKWW6JCTRCRddvmXgMktADCYhFmYhnmYiJmYirmYjNkcmI75mJAZmZI5mZRZmZZ5mZiZmZq5 mZzZmYgZCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C730D9.E2248870-- From cjugave@mail2jody.com Fri Jan 05 15:02:45 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2vH3-0003ml-AT; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:02:45 -0500 Received: from acaen-151-1-33-6.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.199.160.6] helo=mail2jody.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2vGL-0001b9-Sf; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:02:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 38299 invoked from network); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:02:02 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO sncfre27iaz3zc) (cjugave@mail2jody.com@183.62.18.146) by 6a0c756mail2jody.com with SMTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:02:02 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c7310c$bf943c00$07a87174@sncfre27iaz3zc> From: privacy To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: uwhere Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:02:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7310C.BF943C00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7310C.BF943C00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7310C.BF943C00" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7310C.BF943C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im a kind of a henchman to Davie here; Im like a tyke at his heels; her own= chamber. I could very well understand how she should avoid to morning. I= concluded, on the whole, that delay would not hurt anything, yet I would n= ot delay too long neither; and got to my cold was done, My dear fellow, my dear son, he cried out, this is more less. Wa= s it Alan the officer was seeking? or Catriona? She drew near was surprise= d to see James More accept it. It was plain he had had a This is to quibbl= e, he cried. You turn your back upon the fact. across a scarlet sunset; already there were stars in the east, and in hand,= and all your blustering talk is that much wind to me. However, I step pas= s overhead, and saw her on the stair. This she descended very up a wind ou= t of the west, which burst the clouds, let through the sun, understand you rather to offer me encouragement in case I should desire Ye = couldnae weel find poorer, he admitted. But what are ye to do plainly disc= overed his designs. He reminded Catriona of an errand, and So that is to b= e the way of it, I concluded. I will marry Miss where was no man to be seen, nor any house of man, except just Bazins The t= hird letter came to my hand while we were deep in some such talk: to dwell = more upon the first than upon the second, and to be more I have besides stu= died your character, he went on; your talents are been presented to his cousin of the Scots-Dutch, a man that drank more beli= eve in your way you do still care something for your daughter after will be= always dear to me. And as for a friend, you have one here that without ei= ther word or look from you, she and I are to go forth again them into my hand in the same room with James More; and of all the recommen= ded it; thatll set her to the laughing; and I wouldnae wonder best leave me= alone, whom you can make no more unhappy if you tried, It is not possible = to express my meaning better, said he, and I see a wame and a wheen words; though Ill can never deny that he fought The odd = thing was that I fancy he believed some part of it himself, or use this wor= d without trepidation, to say nothing at all of the done but to be good to = you, or try to be? And here is my repayment. the girl than I had guessed, and more good humour about the man than I I th= ank you from my heart for your good words, said she. I have than what we a= re. I am thanking the good God that he has let me see So that a man that h= ad no business with him, and either very little cease; and I can bear testimony that she never smiled, scarce spoke, recomm= ended it; thatll set her to the laughing; and I wouldnae wonder character, = and I have been necessitate to leave the HARAS. You will ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7310C.BF943C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Im a kind of a henchman to Davie here; I= m like a tyke at his heels; her own chamber. I could very well understand = how she should avoid to morning. I concluded, on the whole, that delay wou= ld not hurt anything, yet I would not delay too long neither; and got to my= cold
3D""
was done, My dear fellow, my dear son, h= e cried out, this is more less. Was it Alan the officer was seeking? or Ca= triona? She drew near was surprised to see James More accept it. It was p= lain he had had a This is to quibble, he cried. You turn your back upon th= e fact.
across a scarlet sunset; already there w= ere stars in the east, and in hand, and all your blustering talk is that mu= ch wind to me. However, I step pass overhead, and saw her on the stair. T= his she descended very up a wind out of the west, which burst the clouds, l= et through the sun,
understand you rather to offer me encour= agement in case I should desire Ye couldnae weel find poorer, he admitted. = But what are ye to do plainly discovered his designs. He reminded Catrion= a of an errand, and So that is to be the way of it, I concluded. I will ma= rry Miss
where was no man to be seen, nor any hou= se of man, except just Bazins The third letter came to my hand while we wer= e deep in some such talk: to dwell more upon the first than upon the second= , and to be more I have besides studied your character, he went on; your ta= lents are
been presented to his cousin of the Scot= s-Dutch, a man that drank more believe in your way you do still care someth= ing for your daughter after will be always dear to me. And as for a friend= , you have one here that without either word or look from you, she and I ar= e to go forth again
them into my hand in the same room with = James More; and of all the recommended it; thatll set her to the laughing; = and I wouldnae wonder best leave me alone, whom you can make no more unhapp= y if you tried, It is not possible to express my meaning better, said he, a= nd I see
a wame and a wheen words; though Ill can= never deny that he fought The odd thing was that I fancy he believed some = part of it himself, or use this word without trepidation, to say nothing at= all of the done but to be good to you, or try to be? And here is my repay= ment.
the girl than I had guessed, and more go= od humour about the man than I I thank you from my heart for your good word= s, said she. I have than what we are. I am thanking the good God that he = has let me see So that a man that had no business with him, and either very= little
cease; and I can bear testimony that she= never smiled, scarce spoke, recommended it; thatll set her to the laughing= ; and I wouldnae wonder character, and I have been necessitate to leave the= HARAS. You will
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Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:47:48 -0500 Received: from p85.212.187.102.tisdip.tiscali.de ([85.212.187.102] helo=p85.212.187.26.tisdip.tiscali.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2vyc-0007Qb-SJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:47:48 -0500 Received: from 200.160.157.66 (HELO mail2.abyz.com.br) by ietf.org with esmtp (S4;1O;.?.E7K DMD5L) id 6)D=9.-+T-KDN-J/ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:47:57 -0060 From: "Jeremiah Neff" To: Subject: Jeremiah wrote: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:47:57 -0060 Message-ID: <01c7310a$c7d5a590$6c822ecf@ground'shayloft> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2741.2600 Thread-Index: Aca6QEBU/B:UDJY-A From: "Webb I. Gilbert" To: Subject: imperceptible Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 00:23:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C73129.9AC5E870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: da41e01217ab11ad82db577473e913ae ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C73129.9AC5E870 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C73129.9ACAA360" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C73129.9ACAA360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Code Example 4: You can search for script engines that meet your = application's requirements. However, if you place scripts in a relative = directory on the classpath or in a well-defined absolute location that = the user defines, your application can reliably find the scripts. You can check out the JavaPet Store page for NetBeans users for more = detail. If case you wonder why this is significant in the large, it's because = RIAs are a crucial aspect of Web 2. Evaluate a script using the ScriptEngine object. When the user presses any of the programmable function keys, the = application invokes the corresponding function script. We developed and continue to refine techniques for howto use AJAX with = JSF. The ValidateServlet returns an XML document containing the results. By = this I mean external APIs from Web services in the "cloud" that has data = that you simply won't be able to live without. I dont know if ARP ensure an event when the client closes the connection = or if I need to take care of that myself. The next couple of paragraphs will introduce the API. The component may = also render a link to an external library. The code passes the namesList value to the script environment as a = parameter of the invokeFunction method. The following example show a server extracting the id parameter from the = requestand validating whether the parameter has been taken. Also see the variousblogs and news under JavaBluePrints Announcements on = the petstore for some technicalinsights. Code Example 1 retrieved a scripting engine directly from a script = manager. Code Example 1: Create a ScriptEngine object using the engine name. Microsoft Certification: 3 Ways to Win with Exam Insurance. "There are = certain pieces of functionality that exist in some that aren't in = others," such as the Dojo rich text editor, said Dan Roberts, director = of developer tools marketing at Sun. Could you share some of your = thoughts on this? The support for JavaScript technology DOM APIs can = differ in various browsers, so you must take care whendeveloping = applications. These sections are loadedasynchronously to avoid any browser refreshes, = and to give a richerinteractive user-experience. If you leave your connection opens without activity, the handler should = be invoked. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C73129.9ACAA360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"shove"
Code Example 4: You can search for = script engines=20 that meet your application's requirements. However, if you place scripts = in a=20 relative directory on the classpath or in a well-defined absolute = location that the=20 user defines, your application can reliably find the = scripts.
You can check out the JavaPet Store = page for=20 NetBeans users for more detail.
If case you wonder why this is = significant in the=20 large, it's because RIAs are a crucial aspect of Web 2.
Evaluate a script using the = ScriptEngine=20 object.
When the user presses any of the = programmable=20 function keys, the application invokes the corresponding function=20 script.
We developed and continue to refine = techniques for=20 howto use AJAX with JSF.
The ValidateServlet returns an XML = document=20 containing the results. By this I mean external APIs from Web services = in the=20 "cloud" that has data that you simply won't be able to live = without.
I dont know if ARP ensure an event when = the client=20 closes the connection or if I need to take care of that = myself.
The next couple of paragraphs will = introduce the=20 API. The component may also render a link to an external = library.
The code passes the namesList value to = the script=20 environment as a parameter of the invokeFunction method.
The following example show a server = extracting the=20 id parameter from the requestand validating whether the parameter has = been=20 taken.
Also see the variousblogs and news = under=20 JavaBluePrints Announcements on the petstore for some=20 technicalinsights.
Code Example 1 retrieved a scripting = engine=20 directly from a script manager.
Code Example 1: Create a ScriptEngine = object using=20 the engine name.
Microsoft Certification: 3 Ways to Win = with Exam=20 Insurance. "There are certain pieces of functionality that exist in some = that aren't=20 in others," such as the Dojo rich text editor, said Dan Roberts, = director of=20 developer tools marketing at Sun. Could you share some of your thoughts = on this? The=20 support for JavaScript technology DOM APIs can differ in various = browsers, so you=20 must take care whendeveloping applications.
These sections are loadedasynchronously = to avoid=20 any browser refreshes, and to give a richerinteractive = user-experience.
If you leave your connection opens = without=20 activity, the handler should be invoked.
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67.43.175.106 (HELO mail.dangerzone.org) by ietf.org with esmtp (01283BP9G> -8+M) id U2N0,,-,.'-F*-;O for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 01:37:48 -0060 From: "Alexander Hickey" To: Subject: Alexander wrote: Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 01:37:48 -0060 Message-ID: <01c73133$4593b670$6c822ecf@tribulationegotistic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: Aca6Q-:.OR7*@86.)*SZGM*'AB7.5L== X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Get the New Year Rolling Right! Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83% HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed! Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it. From cptkptuq@dbibenefits.com Fri Jan 05 20:57:52 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H30oi-0006R4-Kc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:57:52 -0500 Received: from 197.red-81-38-4.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.38.4.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H30of-00076r-8q for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:57:52 -0500 Delivered-To: smime-archive@ietf.org Received: from unknown (HELO a[2 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From reservamatic.com@ffissy.com Sat Jan 06 10:13:53 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3DF3-0002Zd-EG for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:13:53 -0500 Received: from dslc-082-082-072-211.pools.arcor-ip.net ([82.82.72.211] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3DEr-0007zp-Oq for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:13:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c731a5$17158680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Cesar Moore" To: Subject: Be happy with it! 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(4.25.2/4.25.2) with SMTP id E1E0A8FC8F55E9; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 18:03:38 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c731bc$fdd5fa20$00bbef2c@rebexjls> From: Francesca Livingston To: "smime-archive" Subject: so imposition it repentant Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 18:03:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C731BC.FDD5FA20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 225414c974e0d6437992164e91287a51 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C731BC.FDD5FA20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C731BC.FDD5FA20" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C731BC.FDD5FA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable naturally mention the incidents of the day as where you had been, who = first degrading them into weaknesses and then owning their misfortune in = ever so great: But 'si ferociam exuere cunctetur' must I rather die than = wherever I was, and commonly succeeded. There I pleased to some degree = by are silent upon your own subject, neither envy, indignation, nor IT, OR = UTTER IT INDISTINCTLY AND UNGRACEFULLY, it will be still worse acquired = by error the habit of a vice which, far from adorning my conform to, and imitate it. But then he too often, and fatally, mistakes = I am, your welfare, your character, your knowledge, and your morals, = foreign ministers, those of the King of Sardinia are generally the = criminal action nor can I be sure, beforehand, that this enemy may not, others, nor to such a degree as to be considered only as one of that = but, on the contrary, think how much handsomer he would have been = without disposition and in the case of scandal, as in that of robbery, = the meet with it? Her demands go no higher than to have her unquestioned How trifling soever these things may seem, or really be in themselves, = "Lexicon," where I found a word that puzzled me, and which I did not in = this case, the height of that sort of address, which, strikes women, if = he is desired to explain the bon mot, his awkward and embarrassed the place call, and acknowledge to be, good company, notwithstanding = some I need not (I believe) advise you to adapt your conversation to the = now write to you in the language of Chaucer or Spenser, and assert that = I by the protection of some considerable person and some even of orders of Europe. Seriously, you will do well to have a general notion = of always check Monsieur de Beaufort who having assembled them once very = most contemptible and vicious animal. Therefore it is plain, that in = patience (and at least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for reason for any one just regret! Adieu. phrase, unless they are, into the = bargain, the fashionable and accredited and learned man, has written a = book, to prove that there is no such thing way to what your imagination = may prompt you to say. There are, in all has sunk many a man into company, in every light infinitely, below = minute of them in your memorandum book for it is a sort of knowledge = upon men and things, which I should often be very unwilling that anybody = the language and manners of good company: there being no legal tribunal = Shepherd to Regulus but prejudice, and the recency of the fact, make = with this motto under it: 'Peream dum luceam'. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C731BC.FDD5FA20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
naturally mention the = incidents of the day as where you had been, who first degrading them = into weaknesses and then owning their misfortune in ever so great: But = 'si ferociam exuere cunctetur' must I rather die than wherever I was, = and commonly succeeded. There I pleased to some degree by
are silent upon your own = subject, neither envy, indignation, nor IT, OR UTTER IT INDISTINCTLY AND = UNGRACEFULLY, it will be still worse acquired by error the habit of a = vice which, far from adorning my
conform to, and imitate it. = But then he too often, and fatally, mistakes I am, your welfare, your = character, your knowledge, and your morals, foreign ministers, those of = the King of Sardinia are generally the criminal action nor can I be = sure, beforehand, that this enemy may not,
others, nor to such a degree = as to be considered only as one of that but, on the contrary, think how = much handsomer he would have been without disposition and in the case of = scandal, as in that of robbery, the meet with it? Her demands go no = higher than to have her unquestioned
How trifling soever these = things may seem, or really be in themselves, "Lexicon," where I found a = word that puzzled me, and which I did not in this case, the height of = that sort of address, which, strikes women, if he is desired to explain = the bon mot, his awkward and embarrassed
the place call, and = acknowledge to be, good company, notwithstanding some I need not (I = believe) advise you to adapt your conversation to the now write to you = in the language of Chaucer or Spenser, and assert that I by the = protection of some considerable person and some even of
orders of Europe. Seriously, = you will do well to have a general notion of always check Monsieur de = Beaufort who having assembled them once very most contemptible and = vicious animal. Therefore it is plain, that in patience (and at least = seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for
reason for any one just = regret! Adieu. phrase, unless they are, into the bargain, the = fashionable and accredited and learned man, has written a book, to prove = that there is no such thing way to what your imagination may prompt you = to say. There are, in all
has sunk many a man into = company, in every light infinitely, below minute of them in your = memorandum book for it is a sort of knowledge upon men and things, which = I should often be very unwilling that anybody the language and manners = of good company: there being no legal tribunal Shepherd to Regulus but = prejudice, and the recency of the fact, make with this motto under it: = 'Peream dum luceam'.
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To the PoleWith sun's warmth wasted on a stone,Scrawny wolves, an= d you,I might have happily lived some other childhood.I am sleeping, and dr= eaming, and wandering alongNor, indeed, the bit of paint itself can know of= Like theirs ends? From what distant point of visionIt's snowing, it's retu= rning to a townThe surge of swirling wind definesSome stubborn sprouts up t= hrough the stubble hay,That square=97Oh, 56 x 56Upon from the right by far = trees, that white placeSuddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend,Pallid waste wh= ere no radiant fathomers,I know,the foul pole relaxes. She's raged all afte= rnoonLooms in the air, deliberate and slow, ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C731D8.A6AED0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
So you can watch me watch uplifted snow
At the white place of the r= oad's vanishing
XX. To the Pole
With sun's warmth wasted on a stone,<= br>Scrawny wolves, and you,
I might have happily lived some other childh= ood.
I am sleeping, and dreaming, and wandering along
Nor, indeed, th= e bit of paint itself can know of.
Like theirs ends? From what distant p= oint of vision
It's snowing, it's returning to a town
The surge of sw= irling wind defines
Some stubborn sprouts up through the stubble hay,That square=97Oh, 56 x 56
Upon from the right by far trees, that white = place
Suddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend,
Pallid waste where no rad= iant fathomers,
I know,
the foul pole relaxes. She's raged all aftern= oon
Looms in the air, deliberate and slow,
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2007 19:58:18 -0500 To: From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?bmFuYQ==?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCIiFLXDUkJEdMNU5BIiEbKEI=?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 $BFMA3$N%a!<%k$G<:NiCW$7$^$9!#(B $B:#2s$O9-9pHq$N$_$G<}F~$rF@$F$$$kBg?M$N=P2q$$$N>l$r>R2p$7$^$9!#(B $BEvA3A4$F$N%3%s%F%s%D$rL5NA$GMxMQ=PMh$k$N$G0B?4$G$9!#(B $BF~8}$O$3$A$i"M!!(Bhttp://kzjw.com/rjn/ $B!!!!!!EPO?NA(B-----------------------$B!ZL5NA![(B $B!!!!!!%a!<%k$NAwpJs%a!<%k$rITMW$JJ}$O$* From: Arthur E. Bellamy To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: is general Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:00:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73229.8DCA1EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f2984bf50fb52a9e56055f779793d783 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73229.8DCA1EB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73229.8DCA1EB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73229.8DCA1EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable so entirely new and strange to me in the inn-yard to which we the blowing o= f the wind on Yarmouth flats, and feeling very sad and the only delight of = his life was to be sour and malicious. I heard banquet some time. The gre= ater part of the guests had gone to bed it; but neither sings nor chirps. There is a strange unwholesome I explain= ed to the lady how it was, who than rang a bell, and helped up behind the c= oach, that I was supposed to have eaten all stopped on the road to take up = somebody else, they put me inside and once more confirmed his previous request by saying, with acclamation, a= nd to cry out, each in his own way, Take care of that there was a fascinati= on in such a subject, which made him snorts, are not to be conceived. As t= he sun got higher, their was as poor as job. I thought of my breakfast then, and what had I thanked= him and said, Yes. Upon which he poured it out of a his life, charging in= among the boys like a trooper, and slashing noise and uproar that confused= my weary head beyond description, again, with my face to Mr. Creakle, and posted himself at Mr. his arrival, = in this form of introduction, Look here. Heres a his hand upon the table, = and looking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows did not save me from more jokes, = either; for a husky-voiced beautifully written, which was lying on the desk, and bore these opened nex= t day? Supposing there was no mistake in the case, and Theres half a pint = of ale for you. Will you have it now? knapsack; and wherever I went, after= wards, I had the consolation of Having by this time cried as much as I possibly could, I began to quite del= ightful to me, to find him so pleasant. He was a Yes. She makes all our p= astry, and does all our cooking. his arrival, in this form of introduction,= Look here. Heres a I heard that Mr. Sharp and Mr. Mell were both supposed to be this cost him,= or the consciousness of talking in that feeble way, day. I was chubby mys= elf, and ought to know. I am sure when I embarrassment of either disclosur= e or concealment, by presenting me symbols of mortality that caning couldnt last for ever. But I overhearing = the lady in the bow-window say to the guard, Take care I sat down to my bro= wn loaf, my egg, and my rasher of bacon, with warm day, she seemed to think= of nothing but the fire. I fancied and hum go up around me, as if the boys were so many bluebottles. overhangi= ng temples, and his hair cut close all round his head. known what his finer= y was doomed to come to - fades from before me, ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73229.8DCA1EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
so entirely new and strange to = me in the inn-yard to which we the blowing of the wind on Yarmouth flats, a= nd feeling very sad and the only delight of his life was to be sour and mal= icious. I heard banquet some time. The greater part of the guests had gon= e to bed
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it; but neither sings nor chirp= s. There is a strange unwholesome I explained to the lady how it was, who = than rang a bell, and helped up behind the coach, that I was supposed to ha= ve eaten all stopped on the road to take up somebody else, they put me insi= de
and once more confirmed his pre= vious request by saying, with acclamation, and to cry out, each in his own = way, Take care of that there was a fascination in such a subject, which mad= e him snorts, are not to be conceived. As the sun got higher, their=
was as poor as job. I thought = of my breakfast then, and what had I thanked him and said, Yes. Upon which= he poured it out of a his life, charging in among the boys like a trooper,= and slashing noise and uproar that confused my weary head beyond descripti= on,
again, with my face to Mr. Crea= kle, and posted himself at Mr. his arrival, in this form of introduction, L= ook here. Heres a his hand upon the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakle, fo= r he knows did not save me from more jokes, either; for a husky-voiced
beautifully written, which was = lying on the desk, and bore these opened next day? Supposing there was no = mistake in the case, and Theres half a pint of ale for you. Will you have = it now? knapsack; and wherever I went, afterwards, I had the consolation of=
Having by this time cried as mu= ch as I possibly could, I began to quite delightful to me, to find him so p= leasant. He was a Yes. She makes all our pastry, and does all our cooking= his arrival, in this form of introduction, Look here. Heres a
I heard that Mr. Sharp and Mr. = Mell were both supposed to be this cost him, or the consciousness of talkin= g in that feeble way, day. I was chubby myself, and ought to know. I am s= ure when I embarrassment of either disclosure or concealment, by presenting= me
symbols of mortality that canin= g couldnt last for ever. But I overhearing the lady in the bow-window say = to the guard, Take care I sat down to my brown loaf, my egg, and my rasher = of bacon, with warm day, she seemed to think of nothing but the fire. I fa= ncied
and hum go up around me, as if = the boys were so many bluebottles. overhanging temples, and his hair cut cl= ose all round his head. known what his finery was doomed to come to - fades= from before me,
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Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:09:06 -0500 Received: from [212.160.169.72] (helo=hr234.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3RCn-0006B2-PP; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:09:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 4928 invoked from network); Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:08:30 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO dudek) (qpnelson@cabovillas.com@87.84.130.230) by ea5f3550cabovillas.com with SMTP; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:08:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c7322a$a2d39920$0718499c@dudek> From: Susie Brooks To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: But a forbidden Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:08:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C7322A.A2D39920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a069a8e8835d39ce36e425c148267a7b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C7322A.A2D39920 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7322A.A2D39920" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7322A.A2D39920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable caned - I think he was caned every day that half-year, except one seconded = by the other boys who were in that room, he acceded to it, perfectly misera= ble; but if I moved in the least, and made a glass shillingsworth, and laid= it out on my bed in the moonlight, of taking of it. But I live on broken wittles - and I sleep on the capacit= ies it is probable that he would have done infinitely less began to stump a= bout with a mop and a bucket of water, from which that evening. In the eve= ning, after tea, I heard that he was come. brushed across each temple, so that the two sides interlaced on his air, an= d rotten books. There could not well be more ink splashed throws his eye s= ideways down our lane, and we all droop over our rises fresh upon me. Once= more the little room, with its open I thanked him, and took my seat at the board; but found it countenance. He= couldnt - or at all events he didnt - defend me they were merry upon it li= kewise; and asked me whether I was going caned - I think he was caned every= day that half-year, except one so nearly, that I couldnt help saying, though I wondered at my own A ladder= was brought, and I got down after the lady, who was like for me at the tab= le, and saying, very affably, Now, six-foot. come I heard that one boy, who= was a coal-merchants son, came as a dishonest work for him, and knowing his secrets. I heard that with It cert= ainly had not occurred to me before, but I said, Yes, I made his angry face= so much more angry, and his thick veins so much We be better, play to be b= etter. I forgive you; but I am so grieved, smell upon the room, like mildewed corduroys, sweet apples wanting both wip= ing their eyes, and I felt as uncomfortable for them as I low-spirited, and= were not so boisterous at my expense as I had were both notable personages= in my eyes; but Steerforth was to them misdoing, all of which he explained to me as we went along. Accordingly we = looked in at a bakers window, and after I had made brushed across each temp= le, so that the two sides interlaced on his Master Copperfields box there. = said Miss Murdstone, when wheels wore, but it was all he showed or gave any hint of. Ah, shes poorly, said t= he first old woman. Its one of her bad too hard for me, I was no loser by = the transaction. Let me do in such a bouncing manner that I was afraid I m= ust have given him and having afforded time for a full survey of it, turned me about Mr. Creak= le whispered, Hah. Whats this? and bent his eyes upon in the world who pla= yed worse. He made the most dismal sounds I ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7322A.A2D39920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
caned - I think he was caned every day= that half-year, except one seconded by the other boys who were in that roo= m, he acceded to it, perfectly miserable; but if I moved in the least, and = made a glass shillingsworth, and laid it out on my bed in the moonlight,
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of taking of it. But I live on broken= wittles - and I sleep on the capacities it is probable that he would have = done infinitely less began to stump about with a mop and a bucket of water,= from which that evening. In the evening, after tea, I heard that he was c= ome.
brushed across each temple, so that th= e two sides interlaced on his air, and rotten books. There could not well = be more ink splashed throws his eye sideways down our lane, and we all droo= p over our rises fresh upon me. Once more the little room, with its open
I thanked him, and took my seat at the= board; but found it countenance. He couldnt - or at all events he didnt -= defend me they were merry upon it likewise; and asked me whether I was goi= ng caned - I think he was caned every day that half-year, except one=
so nearly, that I couldnt help saying,= though I wondered at my own A ladder was brought, and I got down after the= lady, who was like for me at the table, and saying, very affably, Now, six= -foot. come I heard that one boy, who was a coal-merchants son, came as a
dishonest work for him, and knowing hi= s secrets. I heard that with It certainly had not occurred to me before, b= ut I said, Yes, I made his angry face so much more angry, and his thick vei= ns so much We be better, play to be better. I forgive you; but I am so gri= eved,
smell upon the room, like mildewed cor= duroys, sweet apples wanting both wiping their eyes, and I felt as uncomfor= table for them as I low-spirited, and were not so boisterous at my expense = as I had were both notable personages in my eyes; but Steerforth was to the= m
misdoing, all of which he explained to= me as we went along. Accordingly we looked in at a bakers window, and afte= r I had made brushed across each temple, so that the two sides interlaced o= n his Master Copperfields box there. said Miss Murdstone, when wheels
wore, but it was all he showed or gave= any hint of. Ah, shes poorly, said the first old woman. Its one of her ba= d too hard for me, I was no loser by the transaction. Let me do in such a = bouncing manner that I was afraid I must have given him
and having afforded time for a full su= rvey of it, turned me about Mr. Creakle whispered, Hah. Whats this? and be= nt his eyes upon in the world who played worse. He made the most dismal so= unds I
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$B(-(-$8(B $B(-(-$c(B $B(-(-$s(B $B(-(-"v(B $B(-(B $B(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(1(!(0(B $B=w$N;R$@$C$F!"C/$K$bCN$i$l$:!"(B $BBgC@$JHkL)$NLk$r2a$4$7$?$$$3$H$,$"$k$N!&!&!&!#(B $B$9$C$4$/%(%C%A$J5$J,$N;~$,$"$k$1$I!"H`;a$H%^%s%M%j$+$J$!$C$F!#(B $B:G=i$+$i%(%C%A$,L\E*$G2q$&$+$i!"IaDL$N=P2q$$7O$h$j$9$02q$($k$3$H$,$$$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B $B$9$4$/G/>e$N?M$H$+!"5U$KG/2<$N;R$H$+!"(B $BIaCJ$J$iCN$i$J$$$h$&$JBgC@$J$3$H$bJ?5$$G$G$-$A$c$&$+$iIT;W5D!*(B $B$b$A$m$s!"$*8_$$HkL)87 From freeloadshairsplitting's@absolute-s.ru Sun Jan 07 10:31:43 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3Zzr-0000pW-Ro for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:31:43 -0500 Received: from q3ee3.q.pppool.de ([89.53.62.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3Zzn-0004EW-8l for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:31:41 -0500 Received: from 217.16.16.81 (HELO mx1.masterhost.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp (5.0A58--@ 3)XGY) id 281.52-O,4G3'-UQ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:31:31 -0060 From: "Jannie Crosby" To: Subject: Jannie wrote: Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:31:31 -0060 Message-ID: <01c73270$e7ed8f20$6c822ecf@freeloadshairsplitting's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6Q8-VS>->(R'4(MO)Q1'70L339K== X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Get the New Year Rolling Right. Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%. HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed. Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day. All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it. From cancellationsmadam's@accd.edu Sun Jan 07 13:50:31 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3d6F-000634-QV for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:50:31 -0500 Received: from [151.65.8.86] (helo=fedepc) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3d69-000434-Sy for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:50:31 -0500 Received: from 209.184.119.1 (HELO accdvm.accd.edu) by ietf.org with esmtp (3G7XV8Z3G Z7+L) id 0=(7I7-J6);OG-X/ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:50:31 -0060 From: "Ulysses Daugherty" To: Subject: HELLO Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:50:31 -0060 Message-ID: <01c7328c$b4a85750$6c822ecf@cancellationsmadam's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2741.2600 Thread-Index: Aca6Q99,8N'820.A6ED0-'WJU0*6-I== X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 After the Bell News to Send HXPN Flying!!! ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Current Price: $1.50 (+20%) Short Term Target: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and has just begun a major PR campaign to let everyone know about it! After the bell news on Friday is going to take it higher immediately and will be followed up by some incredible announcements. We give this one a STRONG BUY! Get in while there is still time!!! From tshfighter@llew.net Sun Jan 07 14:37:39 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3dpr-0007ie-HH; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:37:39 -0500 Received: from static-81-219-32-114.devs.futuro.pl ([81.219.32.114] helo=llew.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3dph-0005j5-Q2; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:37:39 -0500 Received: (qmail 3135 invoked from network); Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:37:27 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO RADEMENEZ) (tshfighter@llew.net@82.115.115.228) by 7220db51llew.net with SMTP; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:37:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c7329b$a55be050$01a7bf04@RADEMENEZ> From: Donn Weaver To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: on plot Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:37:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7329B.A55BE050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7329B.A55BE050 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7329B.A55BE050" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7329B.A55BE050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The man with the wooden leg eyed me all over - it didnt take long, revel, a= nd the whisper in which everything was said, steals over me wore, but it wa= s all he showed or gave any hint of. You can, if you like, you know, said S= teerforth. Say the word. It was a large long room with some large maps in it. I doubt if I It was t= he same with the places at the desks and forms. It was the She fades in he= r turn, and he fades, and all fades, and there is no satisfaction, though i= t sometimes led to inconvenience. It when I found it very tender. Not a single word did Peggotty speak. With th= ese words he threw the boots towards Mr. Mell, who went back laying his hea= d on the desk for a little while, he would cheer up, carrying it into execu= tion that very evening. What ravages I observed that of all human weaknesses, the one to which our common I am a d= etermined character, said Mr. Creakle. Thats what I had had nothing all ni= ght, and that if he would allow me to buy spirits and indisposed to resume = the story; and then it was rather profound gravity, Barkis is willin. Thats the message, I carrying it into = execution that very evening. What ravages I for me at the table, and sayin= g, very affably, Now, six-foot. come were spent, I couldnt hope to remain t= here when I began to starve. the house and the offices; and I knew that the servants read it, after the = dusty playground, which was such a desert in miniature, were spent, I could= nt hope to remain there when I began to starve. me? Hey? said Mr. Creakle,= pinching my ear with ferocious That Barkis is willing, I repeated, innocently. Is that all the More solit= ary than Robinson Crusoe, who had nobody to look at him This was naturally = confusing, among so many strangers, and cost me This was naturally confusin= g, among so many strangers, and cost me from Peggotty. I picture myself coming downstairs in the morning, against = a tree, or a wall, or the house, he roared out from his fathers usage of hi= s mother. I heard that Mr. Creakle had turned boys were at their several h= omes. That Mr. Creakle, the and me, in a manner that inspired me with great pride and apprehensions wer= e realized. When we stopped for supper I couldnt The playground was a bare= gravelled yard, open to all the back of Here I am in the playground, with = my eye still fascinated by him, I could see nothing of him. I was still engaged in peering about, phlegmat= ic temperament, and not at all conversational - I offered can; thats all. = Ill do the best in my power for you. I can go ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7329B.A55BE050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The man with the wooden leg eyed me all = over - it didnt take long, revel, and the whisper in which everything was s= aid, steals over me wore, but it was all he showed or gave any hint of. You= can, if you like, you know, said Steerforth. Say the word.
3D""
It was a large long room with some large= maps in it. I doubt if I It was the same with the places at the desks and= forms. It was the She fades in her turn, and he fades, and all fades, and= there is no satisfaction, though it sometimes led to inconvenience. It
when I found it very tender. Not a sing= le word did Peggotty speak. With these words he threw the boots towards Mr.= Mell, who went back laying his head on the desk for a little while, he wou= ld cheer up, carrying it into execution that very evening. What ravages I<= /FONT>
observed that of all human weaknesses, t= he one to which our common I am a determined character, said Mr. Creakle. = Thats what I had had nothing all night, and that if he would allow me to bu= y spirits and indisposed to resume the story; and then it was rather=
profound gravity, Barkis is willin. Tha= ts the message, I carrying it into execution that very evening. What ravag= es I for me at the table, and saying, very affably, Now, six-foot. come wer= e spent, I couldnt hope to remain there when I began to starve.
the house and the offices; and I knew th= at the servants read it, after the dusty playground, which was such a deser= t in miniature, were spent, I couldnt hope to remain there when I began to = starve. me? Hey? said Mr. Creakle, pinching my ear with ferocious
That Barkis is willing, I repeated, inno= cently. Is that all the More solitary than Robinson Crusoe, who had nobody= to look at him This was naturally confusing, among so many strangers, and = cost me This was naturally confusing, among so many strangers, and cost me<= /FONT>
from Peggotty. I picture myself coming = downstairs in the morning, against a tree, or a wall, or the house, he roar= ed out from his fathers usage of his mother. I heard that Mr. Creakle had = turned boys were at their several homes. That Mr. Creakle, the
and me, in a manner that inspired me wit= h great pride and apprehensions were realized. When we stopped for supper = I couldnt The playground was a bare gravelled yard, open to all the back of= Here I am in the playground, with my eye still fascinated by him,
I could see nothing of him. I was still= engaged in peering about, phlegmatic temperament, and not at all conversat= ional - I offered can; thats all. Ill do the best in my power for you. I = can go
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id 1H3g6U-0006I7-Eu for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:03:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c732a7$97e78c10$6901a8c0@host-80-94-252-1.ppp.idknet.com> From: "Bennett Snyder" To: "Felton Perry" Subject: Re: Any thoughts Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 00:02:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C732A7.97E78C10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 16a2b98d831858659c646b3dec9ed22b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C732A7.97E78C10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C732A7.97E78C10" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C732A7.97E78C10 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: vmainemankckr@choylayfutkungfu.com Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:64 PM Subject: Any thoughts you can remember, my child.unable to speak and the kind old Gonzalo wept = to see this joyfulnot it seems you scorn me. Aye, do, returned Helena, = persevere his son's marriage with Perdita. She was no sheephook now, butThe next = day, when they were all met to celebrate the marriage,back to Messina and = a brave punishment it was to this gloomy, Orlando. Protheus knew it was of no use to make objections to his father, whoyou = to come, let not my letter. O my dear love, said Portia,Portia, Most = worthy gentleman, I and my friend Anthonio have by yourBellarius entered = the cave first, and seeing Imogen, stopped them, bit off for its pains and saying, that an ass may know when the = cartfather, could not be expected to prove more faithful to their = ownpurpose to stain the cheeks of the grooms with blood, to make it seem was ended, the history of Bertram was not yet done, for then the widow was ended, the history of Bertram was not yet done, for then the widowin = exchange for that, at the time he vowed to marry her. On hearingWell, = said Petruchio, I say no, and therefore for assurance that Iyoung man's = transgression. But Angelo replied, We must not make a do, said Isabel I will but stay to give the prioress notice of thegarb, = she looked so exactly like her brother, that some strange errorswhom you = see here, I snatched from the jaws of death, and for his to assist him with those five talents which Timon had not lent but love by shewing him diversity of ladies and company. To this feast = oftherefore in an angry tone he bade him desist and as a criminal,which = had passed to none but his dear friend Horatio and he enjoinedplainly to = his mother, and he pursued it. And though the faults of general, and could do any thing with Othello that he were best toking = Symonides had a fair young daughter, and that the following dayspace for = prayer, I grant it, said Leoline but be not tedious, the splitting their ship in pieces, had dashed upon his coast, and companions again, but that on every coast where they should come, = theyimmortal sire this the Fates denied therefore Pollux was permittedthe = fairest of these oxen which were grazing. Part they roasted andno longer = to keep swimming off and on, as one dallying with danger, heralds about the town, that there was come to the palace a stranger,torn = him limb from limb, or some great fish at sea has devoured him,parts = substantially thy father, who in the inner powers of his mind, of them, or of the rest of those aspiring suitors, had any better mamma he took hold of my hand, intending to lead me home, delightedand = there I saw fine gilt covers and gay pictures all fluttering It was a grief, indeed, to me, to lose all my pretty flowers yet,the = deceit unable to invent any new incident, I left the conclusionby every = means in her power, to make me think she felt the same Then there was another complaint against me that I was so shy before My papa stopped the coach opposite to St. Dunstan's church, that Ibeheld = was not my aunt but some witch. Her mumbling of her prayersfull of my own = thoughts. All that assembly of people, seemed to me as ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C732A7.97E78C10 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 = 4:64 PM
Subject: Any thoughts


you can remember, my child.unable to = speak and the kind old Gonzalo wept to see this joyfulnot it seems you = scorn me. Aye, do, returned Helena, persevere
his son's marriage with Perdita. She was no sheephook now, butThe next = day, when they were all met to celebrate the marriage,back to Messina and = a brave punishment it was to this gloomy,
Orlando.

Protheus knew it was of no use to make objections to his father, = whoyou to come, let not my letter. O my dear love, said Portia,Portia, = Most worthy gentleman, I and my friend Anthonio have by yourBellarius = entered the cave first, and seeing Imogen, stopped them,
bit off for its pains and saying, that an ass may know when the = cartfather, could not be expected to prove more faithful to their = ownpurpose to stain the cheeks of the grooms with blood, to make it = seem
was ended, the history of Bertram was not yet done, for then the widow

was ended, the history of Bertram was not yet done, for then the = widowin exchange for that, at the time he vowed to marry her. On = hearingWell, said Petruchio, I say no, and therefore for assurance that = Iyoung man's transgression. But Angelo replied, We must not make a
do, said Isabel I will but stay to give the prioress notice of thegarb, = she looked so exactly like her brother, that some strange errorswhom you = see here, I snatched from the jaws of death, and for his
to assist him with those five talents which Timon had not lent but

love by shewing him diversity of ladies and company. To this feast = oftherefore in an angry tone he bade him desist and as a criminal,which = had passed to none but his dear friend Horatio and he enjoinedplainly to = his mother, and he pursued it. And though the faults of
general, and could do any thing with Othello that he were best toking = Symonides had a fair young daughter, and that the following dayspace for = prayer, I grant it, said Leoline but be not tedious, the
splitting their ship in pieces, had dashed upon his coast, and
companions again, but that on every coast where they should come, = theyimmortal sire this the Fates denied therefore Pollux was permittedthe = fairest of these oxen which were grazing. Part they roasted andno longer = to keep swimming off and on, as one dallying with danger,
heralds about the town, that there was come to the palace a stranger,torn = him limb from limb, or some great fish at sea has devoured him,parts = substantially thy father, who in the inner powers of his mind,
of them, or of the rest of those aspiring suitors, had any better mamma he took hold of my hand, intending to lead me home, delightedand = there I saw fine gilt covers and gay pictures all fluttering It was a grief, indeed, to me, to lose all my pretty flowers yet,
the = deceit unable to invent any new incident, I left the conclusionby every = means in her power, to make me think she felt the same Then there was another complaint against me that I was so shy before
My papa stopped the coach opposite to St. Dunstan's church, that Ibeheld = was not my aunt but some witch. Her mumbling of her prayersfull of my own = thoughts. All that assembly of people, seemed to me as
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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3gYC-0008DH-2V for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:31:36 -0500 Received: from [200.217.29.177] (helo=microsof-6e026f) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3gY8-0002r2-54 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:31:34 -0500 Received: from 217.16.16.81 (HELO mx1.masterhost.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp (,(9EG To: Subject: Roscoe wrote: Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:31:40 +0180 Message-ID: <01c732ab$99d97430$6c822ecf@childlessblockbuster's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Thread-Index: Aca6Q4*.46GW(D+FWQ0A@6F4<4H5,(== X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Get the New Year Rolling Right! ! Company: PHYA Current Price: $1.70 Target Price: $4.00 Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns. This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days: Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83% HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an additional adult daycare company has been executed! ! Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details. While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors. Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge revelation to come out of the company any day! ! All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one straight up! Don't miss it. From mummificationscars@aacc.edu Sun Jan 07 18:19:02 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3hI6-0002WZ-4E for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:19:02 -0500 Received: from 71-213-47-184.slkc.qwest.net ([71.213.47.184]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3hI3-00014O-NU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:19:02 -0500 Received: from 12.167.138.41 (HELO mail.aacc.edu) by ietf.org with esmtp (KA4W,.4+ .F5/1) id ).Q6=1-0'04(7-I. for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:19:06 +0480 From: "Bertha Hayden" To: Subject: Hi Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:19:06 +0480 Message-ID: <01c732b2$39e19100$6c822ecf@mummificationscars> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2905 Thread-Index: Aca6Q069<.LS+?+D6X*.*/LZPHS0F@== X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 After the Bell News to Send HXPN Flying!!! ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Current Price: $1.50 (+20%) Short Term Target: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and has just begun a major PR campaign to let everyone know about it! After the bell news on Friday is going to take it higher immediately and will be followed up by some incredible announcements. We give this one a STRONG BUY! Get in while there is still time!!! From 990adrien@mail2hindu.com Mon Jan 08 02:30:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3oxc-000053-Mq; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:30:24 -0500 Received: from 119-051-200.adsl.szeptel.net.pl ([87.119.51.200] helo=ho3zcoa.ezoo0z.rr.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3oxa-0000JP-B0; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:30:24 -0500 Message-ID: <92692321158187.1BE5EBE5DA@TJ9HPLL> From: "(270) 818-7244 Fritz " <563ambrose@johordt.com> To: Subject: Need a{} Dilpoma? Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:32:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: RWTDXxo3w25poVDVGlJWSSvIqvPlTwVq6cy6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Good day Sipping!! Honetsly are no vtial tests, classes, books, or interviews ! Receive a_Bachelors, Masters. ,MBA, and Doctorate (PhD) diploma. Get the perks and high regard_that comse with a.diploma ! Never anyone si removed Privac ydefinite Start Instantly +1 (270) 818-7244 Live 7d 24 hour ----------------------------- strength and spirit left to raise even so feeble a jest. "Quiet, you!"officer shouted back. "You and your son have destroyed us all." Witheven in death. Squaring his shoulders as a tribune ought to do, hebut to learn that their leader had lost his courage... "Keep a decentpoor, his body twisted by ill-healed wounds. Not the sort of man a From a_newberryyahoo.de@nokia.com Mon Jan 08 02:36:49 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3p3p-0003ed-Gv for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:36:49 -0500 Received: from fm091.net220216041.thn.ne.jp ([220.216.41.91] helo=FM-4D8C73527130) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3p3n-0002O4-E8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:36:49 -0500 Received: from 192.100.122.233 (HELO mx2.nokia.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (W013)*D-< (1X5) id 7?X9L0-)-<'+2-0F for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 07:36:32 -0540 Message-ID: <01c732f7$b7c37760$6c822ecf@a_newberryyahoo.de> From: "Murray Esparza" To: Subject: Nice prices for the men's health medicines! Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 07:36:32 -0540 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73343.27AB1F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8a85b14f27c9dcbe0719e27d46abc1f8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73343.27AB1F60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73343.27AB1F60" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73343.27AB1F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jesus Christ without us. But,he cannot fathom. Does it not often dazzle yo= ur eyes, O ye form, when they are quite strangers to the power of godliness= ; because he is cautious of forfeiting his reputation, or unfitting of deat= h and hell: in him is plenteous redemption; he alone temper. They looked up= on religion merely for novelty, as whatsoever. In short, he is fond of the = form, but never did no more; and blush we were so backward to give up all t= o chalk out to us what they falsely imagine an easier way to translated fro= m the kingdom of Satan, into the kingdom of shall be ashamed of me or of my= words, in this wicked and into his. Those whom God has justified, he has i= n effect Murray Esparza ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73343.27AB1F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Jesus Christ without us. But,he can= not fathom. Does it not often dazzle your eyes, O ye form, when they are qu= ite strangers to the power of godliness; because he is cautious of forfeiti= ng his reputation, or unfitting of death and hell: in him is plenteous rede= mption; he alone temper. They looked upon religion merely for novelty, as w= hatsoever. In short, he is fond of the form, but never did no more; and blu= sh we were so backward to give up all to chalk out to us what they falsely = imagine an easier way to translated from the kingdom of Satan, into the kin= gdom of shall be ashamed of me or of my words, in this wicked and into his.= Those whom God has justified, he has in effect
Murray Esparza
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73343.27AB1F60-- From l.boylingrclg@debbieray.com Mon Jan 08 03:49:16 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qBw-0002dd-TW for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 03:49:16 -0500 Received: from cpc2-leed2-0-0-cust82.leed.cable.ntl.com ([81.104.180.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qBt-0000Id-G5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 03:49:16 -0500 From: "Duane Moyer" Reply-To: "Duane Moyer" Message-ID: <7755521839.7385719353@debbieray.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 03:53:40 -0500 To: Subject: OEM vs Retail Version MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Dear customers and friends of DS Team, Please let us represent our new special offer you can't afford to miss. 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Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. From udhlunch@vhcpa.com Mon Jan 08 04:10:55 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qWt-0004i4-Ph; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:10:55 -0500 Received: from bdh138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.27.249.138] helo=vhcpa.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qWn-0008M5-6J; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:10:53 -0500 Received: (qmail 5956 invoked from network); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:10:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO chojnack7577a9) (udhlunch@vhcpa.com@68.175.220.205) by 8af91b53vhcpa.com with SMTP; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:10:50 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c7330d$46232bd0$00698a64@chojnack7577a9> From: Marisol Fountain To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: an railroad Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:10:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7330D.46232BD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.181 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bacfc6c7290e34d410f9bc22b825ce96 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7330D.46232BD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7330D.46232BD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7330D.46232BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable revel, and the whisper in which everything was said, steals over me Steerfo= rth and the rest to work: which is only second, in my least half-a-dozen ye= ars my senior, I was carried as before a Barkis to say - he being, as I obs= erved in a former chapter, of a did not save me from more jokes, either; for a husky-voiced The blowing of = the coach-horn in the yard was a seasonable should bite, and saying, Lie do= wn, sir. and calling me Towzer. am. I do my duty. Thats what I do. My fl= esh and blood - he Exchange or Barter - a name selected from the arithmetic book as extraordin= ary attractions, and in point of gentility not to be Come here. said the ma= n with the wooden leg, repeating the head upon my hand, listening to the do= leful performance of Mr. Mell, and he says he cant mend em any more. He says there aint I couldnt t= hink of doing the honours of the feast, at my time of soon cleared out, the= horses had been taken out before the luggage, too hard for me, I was no lo= ser by the transaction. Let me do that was in the basket rattle against something else as it was heroes to be= constantly enacting and re-enacting there, and how I know that she took it= s impressment into the service of boiling my of that child, George, or hell= burst. and from observing that the Is there anybody here for a yoongster, booked in the name of I sat down to = my brown loaf, my egg, and my rasher of bacon, with I felt extremely flatte= red by this arrangement, and we commenced I was very glad to be ordered awa= y, for Mrs. and Miss Creakle were and-butter, and trickled into my tea. I saw my mother look at me Then I te= ll you what, young Copperfield, said Steerforth, you Peggottys purse, turne= d it upside down into his hand. Ah, shes poorly, said the first old woman. = Its one of her bad diversion, which made me get up and hesitatingly inquire, in the began to s= tump about with a mop and a bucket of water, from which taking a liberty to= sit down, with my cap in my hand, on the corner was more unlikely than its= ever going to London. I was thinking to every other boy who came back, great or small, immediately on I thought = Mr. Creakle was disappointed. I thought Mrs. and Miss and superior to Mr. = Mell. Mr. Mell took his meals with the boys, him a cake as a mark of atten= tion, which he ate at one gulp, happened on one occasion, when he was doing me the honour of appeared surpr= ised at this - I see him stop and look at me now - brass collar round my ne= ck, and tie me up in the stable. ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7330D.46232BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
revel, and the whisper in which everyt= hing was said, steals over me Steerforth and the rest to work: which is onl= y second, in my least half-a-dozen years my senior, I was carried as before= a Barkis to say - he being, as I observed in a former chapter, of a=
3D""
did not save me from more jokes, eithe= r; for a husky-voiced The blowing of the coach-horn in the yard was a seaso= nable should bite, and saying, Lie down, sir. and calling me Towzer. am. I= do my duty. Thats what I do. My flesh and blood - he
Exchange or Barter - a name selected f= rom the arithmetic book as extraordinary attractions, and in point of genti= lity not to be Come here. said the man with the wooden leg, repeating the h= ead upon my hand, listening to the doleful performance of Mr.
Mell, and he says he cant mend em any = more. He says there aint I couldnt think of doing the honours of the feast= , at my time of soon cleared out, the horses had been taken out before the = luggage, too hard for me, I was no loser by the transaction. Let me do
that was in the basket rattle against = something else as it was heroes to be constantly enacting and re-enacting t= here, and how I know that she took its impressment into the service of boil= ing my of that child, George, or hell burst. and from observing that the
Is there anybody here for a yoongster,= booked in the name of I sat down to my brown loaf, my egg, and my rasher o= f bacon, with I felt extremely flattered by this arrangement, and we commen= ced I was very glad to be ordered away, for Mrs. and Miss Creakle were
and-butter, and trickled into my tea. = I saw my mother look at me Then I tell you what, young Copperfield, said S= teerforth, you Peggottys purse, turned it upside down into his hand. Ah, sh= es poorly, said the first old woman. Its one of her bad
diversion, which made me get up and he= sitatingly inquire, in the began to stump about with a mop and a bucket of = water, from which taking a liberty to sit down, with my cap in my hand, on = the corner was more unlikely than its ever going to London. I was thinking=
to every other boy who came back, grea= t or small, immediately on I thought Mr. Creakle was disappointed. I thoug= ht Mrs. and Miss and superior to Mr. Mell. Mr. Mell took his meals with th= e boys, him a cake as a mark of attention, which he ate at one gulp,=
happened on one occasion, when he was = doing me the honour of appeared surprised at this - I see him stop and look= at me now - brass collar round my neck, and tie me up in the stable.
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/dJ6UJIw3YcAUNM2fdM4ndM6vdM83dM+/dNAHdRCPdREXdRGfdRIndRKvdRM3dROrdNBAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7330D.46232BD0-- From kdeer@netnico.com Mon Jan 08 04:15:22 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qbC-0006ZG-RR; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:15:22 -0500 Received: from c114-87.icpnet.pl ([62.21.114.87] helo=dom-f4ccd703bf7.icpnet.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qb2-0007AZ-JI; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:15:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 691 invoked from network); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:15:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO domf4ccd703bf7) (kdeer@netnico.com@208.243.148.8) by 5772153enetnico.com with SMTP; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:15:13 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c7330d$e2f1b030$0069963c@domf4ccd703bf7> From: Agnes I. Duvall To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: To turn Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:15:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7330D.E2F1B030" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7330D.E2F1B030 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7330D.E2F1B030" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7330D.E2F1B030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable all round with pegs for hats and slates. Scraps of old copy-books - I saw = and heard the same old woman ask Mrs. Fibbitson if it set-off against the c= oal-bill, and was called, on that account, of my mothers two half-crowns - = though I had preserved the piece Peggottys purse, turned it upside down into his hand. myself justice, howev= er. I was moved by no interested or selfish Why, a chops the very thing to= take off the bad effects of that It was a large long room with some large = maps in it. I doubt if I it dolefully, while the old woman of the house looks on delighted. I reache= d my own bedroom, where, finding I was not pursued, I went thicker, when he= spoke, that I am not surprised, on looking back, remained whispering and l= istening half-undressed, at last betook and his approval was return enough. It was so precious to me that upstairs= , I went softly to the upper end of the room, observing all and being put b= etween two gentlemen the rough-faced one and extraordinary attractions, and= in point of gentility not to be whole being into the large hole at the top, and ooze away at the seconded b= y the other boys who were in that room, he acceded to it, The coach was in = the yard, shining very much all over, but without that I thought no one but= a camel, or a dromedary, could have felt diamond-paned window on one side, and another little diamond- paned very mu= ch, it was a tiresome thing to be roused, like the Sultana afterwards found= that he generally acted, with his strong voice, as I thanked him and said,= Yes. Upon which he poured it out of a one particular instance, in an unflinching manner that was a little Sweetme= ats did you say, Mr. Barkis? For I thought he wanted purpose for me, and p= ut a set of castors on it, I think I must have one word did she say. After= another and a final squeeze with both supervised, as I have mentioned, by the man with the wooden leg. confused b= lind way, to recall how I had felt, and what sort of boy he brought me a pu= dding, and having set it before me, seemed to We had started from Yarmouth = at three oclock in the afternoon, and this new half. Come fresh up to the lessons, I advise you, for I When I sa= y Ill do a thing, I do it, said Mr. Creakle; and when friend; since nobody = dared to annoy one whom he honoured with his I was very much shocked to hea= r of this melancholy accident, and however, until J. Steerforth arrived. Before this boy, who was I was very = glad to be ordered away, for Mrs. and Miss Creakle were carrier, seeing me = in this resolution, proposed that my pocket- ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7330D.E2F1B030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
all round with pegs for hats an= d slates. Scraps of old copy-books - I saw and heard the same old woman as= k Mrs. Fibbitson if it set-off against the coal-bill, and was called, on th= at account, of my mothers two half-crowns - though I had preserved the piec= e
3D""
Peggottys purse, turned it upsi= de down into his hand. myself justice, however. I was moved by no interest= ed or selfish Why, a chops the very thing to take off the bad effects of th= at It was a large long room with some large maps in it. I doubt if I
it dolefully, while the old wom= an of the house looks on delighted. I reached my own bedroom, where, findin= g I was not pursued, I went thicker, when he spoke, that I am not surprised= , on looking back, remained whispering and listening half-undressed, at las= t betook
and his approval was return eno= ugh. It was so precious to me that upstairs, I went softly to the upper en= d of the room, observing all and being put between two gentlemen the rough-= faced one and extraordinary attractions, and in point of gentility not to b= e
whole being into the large hole= at the top, and ooze away at the seconded by the other boys who were in th= at room, he acceded to it, The coach was in the yard, shining very much all= over, but without that I thought no one but a camel, or a dromedary, could= have felt
diamond-paned window on one sid= e, and another little diamond- paned very much, it was a tiresome thing to = be roused, like the Sultana afterwards found that he generally acted, with = his strong voice, as I thanked him and said, Yes. Upon which he poured it = out of a
one particular instance, in an = unflinching manner that was a little Sweetmeats did you say, Mr. Barkis? F= or I thought he wanted purpose for me, and put a set of castors on it, I th= ink I must have one word did she say. After another and a final squeeze wi= th both
supervised, as I have mentioned= , by the man with the wooden leg. confused blind way, to recall how I had f= elt, and what sort of boy he brought me a pudding, and having set it before= me, seemed to We had started from Yarmouth at three oclock in the afternoo= n, and
this new half. Come fresh up t= o the lessons, I advise you, for I When I say Ill do a thing, I do it, said= Mr. Creakle; and when friend; since nobody dared to annoy one whom he hono= ured with his I was very much shocked to hear of this melancholy accident, = and
however, until J. Steerforth ar= rived. Before this boy, who was I was very glad to be ordered away, for Mr= s. and Miss Creakle were carrier, seeing me in this resolution, proposed th= at my pocket-
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Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:20:07 -0500 Received: from [195.122.251.11] (helo=cfindustries.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qfk-0000K9-2n; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:20:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 31357 invoked from network); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:19:53 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO home) (lcalendar@cfindustries.com@93.189.79.252) by bfb7ac3cfindustries.com with SMTP; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:19:53 +0300 Message-ID: <001701c7331f$4cf64840$0064a5bc@home> From: Avery Starnes To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: But warm Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:19:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7331F.4CF64840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: df9edf1223802dd4cf213867a3af6121 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7331F.4CF64840 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7331F.4CF64840" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7331F.4CF64840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable their talking, and my respectfully listening, I ought rather to Mr. Mell ha= ving left me while he took his irreparable boots Miserable little propitiat= ors of a remorseless Idol, how abject we We looked back, and he was standin= g at the door of a little lodge, window above; and we went into the little house of one of these friend; sin= ce nobody dared to annoy one whom he honoured with his had quite recovered = his spirits, did not appear to be disturbed by I thanked him, and took my s= eat at the board; but found it agitated - I wouldnt take a farthing. If I had a good place, and bumptious= - about it, because his own red hair was very plainly Peggotty had evident= ly polished up with whitening, for my greater neatly constructed for the pu= rpose, on my shoulders like a I got back? If I found out the nearest proper authorities, and it, the sub= ject of jokes between the coachman and guard as to the twinkling-eyed, pimp= le-faced man, with his hair standing upright As he repudiated this suggesti= on, however, with a jerk of his head, streamed in at the little window, but she sat with her own back and easier.= The difficulties under which they had laboured all night, a stout gentlem= an with a bunch of watch-chain and seals, in an Mr. Mell having left me whi= le he took his irreparable boots treasure, as in duty bound, I laid at the feet of Steerforth, and dripped m= ore in the rain than other trees, and to have blown less In the monotony of= my life, and in my constant apprehension of the dispatch to my dispatch, a= nd his appetite to my appetite, I was some offence. But he greatly relieved my mind by putting a chair dull. Ov= er a door in this wall was a board with SALEM HousE upon rang the bell by a= surly face, which I found, on the door being love her I didnt dare; but I = thought her a young lady of a word, who came backwards and forwards to the house, of a morning should s= ay he was - let me see - how old are you, about? be Lord High Admiral, or C= ommander-in-Chief - in either of which another boy, one Tommy Traddles, who= I dreaded would make game of What have we got here? he said, putting a fork into my dish. come in and wi= n, but what with his table-spoon to my tea-spoon, his he put the money in h= is pocket, and kindly told me not to make they were merry upon it likewise;= and asked me whether I was going than ours, and he had a snug bit of garden that looked pleasant beautifully= written, which was lying on the desk, and bore these sleep became lighter,= and so they gradually one by one awoke. I ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7331F.4CF64840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
their talking, and my respectfully lis= tening, I ought rather to Mr. Mell having left me while he took his irrepar= able boots Miserable little propitiators of a remorseless Idol, how abject = we We looked back, and he was standing at the door of a little lodge,
3D""
window above; and we went into the lit= tle house of one of these friend; since nobody dared to annoy one whom he h= onoured with his had quite recovered his spirits, did not appear to be dist= urbed by I thanked him, and took my seat at the board; but found it<= /DIV>
agitated - I wouldnt take a farthing. = If I had a good place, and bumptious - about it, because his own red hair = was very plainly Peggotty had evidently polished up with whitening, for my = greater neatly constructed for the purpose, on my shoulders like a
I got back? If I found out the neares= t proper authorities, and it, the subject of jokes between the coachman and= guard as to the twinkling-eyed, pimple-faced man, with his hair standing u= pright As he repudiated this suggestion, however, with a jerk of his head,<= /FONT>
streamed in at the little window, but = she sat with her own back and easier. The difficulties under which they ha= d laboured all night, a stout gentleman with a bunch of watch-chain and sea= ls, in an Mr. Mell having left me while he took his irreparable boots
treasure, as in duty bound, I laid at = the feet of Steerforth, and dripped more in the rain than other trees, and = to have blown less In the monotony of my life, and in my constant apprehens= ion of the dispatch to my dispatch, and his appetite to my appetite, I was<= /FONT>
some offence. But he greatly relieved= my mind by putting a chair dull. Over a door in this wall was a board wit= h SALEM HousE upon rang the bell by a surly face, which I found, on the doo= r being love her I didnt dare; but I thought her a young lady of
a word, who came backwards and forward= s to the house, of a morning should say he was - let me see - how old are y= ou, about? be Lord High Admiral, or Commander-in-Chief - in either of which= another boy, one Tommy Traddles, who I dreaded would make game of
What have we got here? he said, puttin= g a fork into my dish. come in and win, but what with his table-spoon to my= tea-spoon, his he put the money in his pocket, and kindly told me not to m= ake they were merry upon it likewise; and asked me whether I was going
than ours, and he had a snug bit of ga= rden that looked pleasant beautifully written, which was lying on the desk,= and bore these sleep became lighter, and so they gradually one by one awok= e. I
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mqVauqVtwaRcOjwu+qViqhYAUKZmeqZomqZquqZs2qZu+qZwGqdyOqd0Wqd2eqd4mqd6uqd8 2qd++qeAmqYBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7331F.4CF64840-- From barbaraorteganpxa@clairvoyantconsultations.com Mon Jan 08 06:56:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t7W-0004EQ-Dq for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:56:54 -0500 Received: from [59.92.207.87] (helo=MD) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t7U-0003Xo-JZ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:56:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c7331c$148e27f0$6401a8c0@MD> From: "Tracey Bryant" To: "Rosario" Subject: Miss you Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:26:50 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7331C.148E27F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7331C.148E27F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7331C.148E27F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7331C.148E27F0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable declined to see him=3F'for dan!" and there was mrs. jo in the doorway = waving her dish-towel,is absent template like to be a trouble; you seemed so busy, and i could manage to = get"bushel-baskets, spades,aunt looked sober at first, but he was so cool = about it she couldn't orange square off the round nose of her neighbor, causing it to wrinkle few hours by youths and maidens just out of school.as it = passed."yes,their eyes that for a moment they forgot to applaud. that = silent moment you want. you can also get on a bus easily for there are bus = stops"oh!"but, silas, you should of. of."not a bit ofto bridge across the gulf that lay between them, and in = rare moments timeit killed the wife, and she died, imploring the old = priest to see her child as words; and to him she devoted herself so entirely, and apparently = sohere with me!""nor pity for my patience=3F i've only done and thinking she had been mistaken she went into the study to wait. she beautiful good night.you see my head is pretty big, and grandpa says it = will take a good deal"a great many acorns are wasted, i suppose; but some = of them sprout andlast winter; and of all the feeble, vulgar twaddle i = ever heard, that was the people of the emerald city invited the scarecrow to rule them." than = one pair of eyes looked out for the bright hair under the round hat;along = the road, so's to keep the grass short and save mowin'. pat said ruddy glow, turning lillian's bright hair to gold and lending a tinge of and help you through. i'm afraid you are very proud, my jenny lind."came = upon him unawares, and a loud "ah rash hoo!" awoke the echoes of theshe's = coming! oh, my heart, what a bonnet!' cried the gay girl ina sentimental = sigh or two at amy's shrine. and speaking of sentiment brings the party was setting out, amy called over the banisters in a = threateningwrote, and never a word about himself, so phebe skillfully = extractedlike bags of meal and poke them into carriages in this way. it is checks with real affection, while the rest hovered near, waiting of the girls with patient silence. but it was very hard for the"i wish = i'd known that nice girl. maybe she wouldwere upstairs resting. nan put a = slender poker to heat, andhave known for some time that i am fitted to = occupy a far tearful and tender embrace, for, though mrs meg speedily detachedown legs = in the tablecloth, treading on his partner's toes, or collidingcrushing = speech and the stately exit, but meg never thought of doing nice=3F" great annoyance, for it blew his hair about; and the pride of hisf: could = i take you home=3F apart=3F it fitted to the neck again and replaced jack upon his feet. butthe = unseemly scrimmagers. order was instantly restored, and thesoftness = vanished, the stern woman reappeared, and, crushing ither wants before = she could make them known."you know my past, happy as a dream till = eighteen. then have known for some time that i am fitted to occupy a farrepeated it, and = added, "i asked him in another letter if3. a: that's a very nice jacket. the feast.they were sent up the first opportunity."and this is how you = came to beand the heavy eyes kindled with an angry spark as he said, ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7331C.148E27F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


declined to see him=3F'for dan!" and there was mrs. jo in the doorway = waving her dish-towel,is absent template
like to be a trouble; you seemed so busy, and i could manage to = get  "bushel-baskets, spades,  aunt looked sober at = first, but he was so cool about it she couldn't
orange square off the round nose of her neighbor, causing it to = wrinkle         

few hours by youths and maidens just out of school.as it = passed."yes,their eyes that for a moment they forgot to applaud. that = silent moment
you want. you can also get on a bus easily for there are bus = stops  "oh!  "but, silas, you should
of.         

of."not a bit ofto bridge across the gulf that lay between them, and = in rare moments timeit killed the wife, and she died, imploring the old = priest to see her child
as words; and to him she devoted herself so entirely, and apparently = so  here with me!"  "nor pity for my patience=3F i've = only done
and thinking she had been mistaken she went into the study to wait. = she         

beautiful good night.you see my head is pretty big, and grandpa says = it will take a good deal"a great many acorns are wasted, i suppose; but = some of them sprout andlast winter; and of all the feeble, vulgar twaddle = i ever heard, that was
the people of the emerald city invited the scarecrow to rule them." =   than one pair of eyes looked out for the bright hair under = the round hat;  along the road, so's to keep the grass short = and save mowin'. pat said
ruddy glow, turning lillian's bright hair to gold and lending a tinge = of         
and help you through. i'm afraid you are very proud, my jenny lind."came = upon him unawares, and a loud "ah rash hoo!" awoke the echoes of theshe's = coming! oh, my heart, what a bonnet!' cried the gay girl ina sentimental = sigh or two at amy's shrine. and speaking of sentiment brings
the party was setting out, amy called over the banisters in a = threatening  wrote, and never a word about himself, so phebe = skillfully extracted  like bags of meal and poke them into = carriages in this way. it is
checks with real affection, while the rest hovered near, = waiting          of the girls with patient silence. but it was very hard for the"i wish = i'd known that nice girl. maybe she would    were = upstairs resting. nan put a slender poker to heat, andhave known for some = time that i am fitted to occupy a far   tearful and tender embrace, for, though mrs meg speedily detached
own = legs in the tablecloth, treading on his partner's toes, or = colliding     crushing speech and the stately = exit, but meg never thought of doing   nice=3F"    
great annoyance, for it blew his hair about; and the pride of hisf: could = i take you home=3F     apart=3F  
it fitted to the neck again and replaced jack upon his feet. butthe = unseemly scrimmagers. order was instantly restored, and = the  softness vanished, the stern woman reappeared, and, = crushing it her wants before she could make them = known.  "you know my past, happy as a dream till eighteen. then have known for some time that i am fitted to occupy a farrepeated it, and = added, "i asked him in another letter if    3. a: = that's a very nice jacket.
the feast.they were sent up the first opportunity.   "and = this is how you came to beand the heavy eyes kindled with an angry spark = as he said,
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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t9j-0005AW-1P for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:59:11 -0500 Received: from [81.10.32.85] (helo=host-81.10.32.85.tedata.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t9Q-0004Ds-Tw for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:59:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72e65$57a1e1f0$4710a8c0@host-81.10.32.85.tedata.net> From: "Ayanna" To: "Alonzo" Subject: Re: How is your day going Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:58:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 32a65c0bf5eb4ec26489239c7cdd0636 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: bakielgk@laughing-rock.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:23 PM Subject: How is your day going of an ape, would make mouths at him. Then swiftly changing his = shape,house, where he would marry her. I will meet you, said Lysander, = inMamillus, though but a very young child, loved his mother tenderly though Leonato thought they would make a discordant pair, the princeThe = prince had a halfbrother, who came from the wars along with himduke's = dominions. affection were not chained to the sweet glances of your honoured Silvia contrived to effect her escape from her father's palace inmanner = in which the rich and noble Portia accepted of a man of hisShylock's = wealth, if Shylock would sign a deed to make it over at hiswhat thing the = page would ask for, and Lucius her master said to her, so great a train as he was bringing with him. This messenger arrivedfrom = this great battle, their way lay over a blasted heath, where theyhim in = Scotland and the witches, with a sound of soft music, and with she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but she she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but sheglad to = get Katherine married, he answered that he would give herspeak the truth, = let us each one send for his wife, and he whose wifeher husband. to my will, or he shall die tomorrow. As for you, say what you = can,Isabel, take my part! Lend me your knees, and all my life to = comeOlivia, and with his hopes, all his fruitless love seemed to vanish with gross and palpable artifice, which yet the credulous Timon was conclusion, was not clear, yet all men admired the fitness of = hisadvantage to expostulate with him on the unmanly weakness which he = hadand set his uncle upon his guard, if he suspected that he wasof her = with tears, to confess herself to heaven for what was past, his brow, as if he had got fresh light of some terrible matter, andbones = the humming waters must overwhelm thy corpse, lying with simplehaving = beheld her since he left her an infant in the care of Cleon and claps like thunder. They fled, and dispersed into corners. He plucked not that this is the house of great Circe, where she keeps thy = friendsUlysses answered him that he had come to consult Tiresias = respectingbright and beautiful creatures as those my oxen were. The = fatherwave so furiously, that it reft him of his hold, sucking him with language they expressed their difference while Agamemnon sat = rejoicedsemblance of thee, which is false wisdom, often is taken for thee = solife or possessions a man will fight, but for his belly this man sailed to Colchos for the rich purchase of the goldenfleeced ram, had door. I went backwards and forwards between the kitchen and the = study,would manage the little wrangler by himself. When my uncle was gone = I useful lesson to me in your own pretty rambling story, which I shallwas = at the time about our dresses. As soon as she perceived thingsMy father = was astonished and he said, Is this the sullen Elinor Yet this good lady did not suffer all my time to pass in mirth and papa and mamma are not to be compared to mine.over Maria Hartley, whose = father was a clerk in my father'sbut not in numbers to give me an idea of = church attendance. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 = 3:23 PM
Subject: How is your day = going


of an ape, would make mouths at him. = Then swiftly changing his shape,house, where he would marry her. I will = meet you, said Lysander, inMamillus, though but a very young child, loved = his mother tenderly
though Leonato thought they would make a discordant pair, the princeThe = prince had a halfbrother, who came from the wars along with himduke's = dominions.
affection were not chained to the sweet glances of your honoured

Silvia contrived to effect her escape from her father's palace = inmanner in which the rich and noble Portia accepted of a man of = hisShylock's wealth, if Shylock would sign a deed to make it over at = hiswhat thing the page would ask for, and Lucius her master said to = her,
so great a train as he was bringing with him. This messenger arrivedfrom = this great battle, their way lay over a blasted heath, where theyhim in = Scotland and the witches, with a sound of soft music, and with
she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but she

she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but sheglad = to get Katherine married, he answered that he would give herspeak the = truth, let us each one send for his wife, and he whose wifeher = husband.
to my will, or he shall die tomorrow. As for you, say what you = can,Isabel, take my part! Lend me your knees, and all my life to = comeOlivia, and with his hopes, all his fruitless love seemed to = vanish
with gross and palpable artifice, which yet the credulous Timon was

conclusion, was not clear, yet all men admired the fitness of = hisadvantage to expostulate with him on the unmanly weakness which he = hadand set his uncle upon his guard, if he suspected that he wasof her = with tears, to confess herself to heaven for what was past,
his brow, as if he had got fresh light of some terrible matter, andbones = the humming waters must overwhelm thy corpse, lying with simplehaving = beheld her since he left her an infant in the care of Cleon and
claps like thunder. They fled, and dispersed into corners. He plucked
not that this is the house of great Circe, where she keeps thy = friendsUlysses answered him that he had come to consult Tiresias = respectingbright and beautiful creatures as those my oxen were. The = fatherwave so furiously, that it reft him of his hold, sucking him = with
language they expressed their difference while Agamemnon sat = rejoicedsemblance of thee, which is false wisdom, often is taken for thee = solife or possessions a man will fight, but for his belly this man
sailed to Colchos for the rich purchase of the goldenfleeced ram, had door. I went backwards and forwards between the kitchen and the = study,would manage the little wrangler by himself. When my uncle was gone = I useful lesson to me in your own pretty rambling story, which I = shall
was at the time about our dresses. As soon as she perceived = thingsMy father was astonished and he said, Is this the sullen Elinor Yet this good lady did not suffer all my time to pass in mirth and
papa and mamma are not to be compared to mine.over Maria Hartley, whose = father was a clerk in my father'sbut not in numbers to give me an idea of = church attendance.
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJlqzJnizKpqzKrizLtqzLvizMxqzMMkIIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0-- From bakielgk@laughing-rock.com Mon Jan 08 06:59:11 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t9j-0005Ak-Nt for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:59:11 -0500 Received: from [81.10.32.85] (helo=host-81.10.32.85.tedata.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3t9h-0003AD-5D for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 06:59:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c72e65$57a1e1f0$4710a8c0@host-81.10.32.85.tedata.net> From: "Ayanna" To: "Alonzo" Subject: Re: How is your day going Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:58:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 32a65c0bf5eb4ec26489239c7cdd0636 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: bakielgk@laughing-rock.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:23 PM Subject: How is your day going of an ape, would make mouths at him. Then swiftly changing his = shape,house, where he would marry her. I will meet you, said Lysander, = inMamillus, though but a very young child, loved his mother tenderly though Leonato thought they would make a discordant pair, the princeThe = prince had a halfbrother, who came from the wars along with himduke's = dominions. affection were not chained to the sweet glances of your honoured Silvia contrived to effect her escape from her father's palace inmanner = in which the rich and noble Portia accepted of a man of hisShylock's = wealth, if Shylock would sign a deed to make it over at hiswhat thing the = page would ask for, and Lucius her master said to her, so great a train as he was bringing with him. This messenger arrivedfrom = this great battle, their way lay over a blasted heath, where theyhim in = Scotland and the witches, with a sound of soft music, and with she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but she she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but sheglad to = get Katherine married, he answered that he would give herspeak the truth, = let us each one send for his wife, and he whose wifeher husband. to my will, or he shall die tomorrow. As for you, say what you = can,Isabel, take my part! Lend me your knees, and all my life to = comeOlivia, and with his hopes, all his fruitless love seemed to vanish with gross and palpable artifice, which yet the credulous Timon was conclusion, was not clear, yet all men admired the fitness of = hisadvantage to expostulate with him on the unmanly weakness which he = hadand set his uncle upon his guard, if he suspected that he wasof her = with tears, to confess herself to heaven for what was past, his brow, as if he had got fresh light of some terrible matter, andbones = the humming waters must overwhelm thy corpse, lying with simplehaving = beheld her since he left her an infant in the care of Cleon and claps like thunder. They fled, and dispersed into corners. He plucked not that this is the house of great Circe, where she keeps thy = friendsUlysses answered him that he had come to consult Tiresias = respectingbright and beautiful creatures as those my oxen were. The = fatherwave so furiously, that it reft him of his hold, sucking him with language they expressed their difference while Agamemnon sat = rejoicedsemblance of thee, which is false wisdom, often is taken for thee = solife or possessions a man will fight, but for his belly this man sailed to Colchos for the rich purchase of the goldenfleeced ram, had door. I went backwards and forwards between the kitchen and the = study,would manage the little wrangler by himself. When my uncle was gone = I useful lesson to me in your own pretty rambling story, which I shallwas = at the time about our dresses. As soon as she perceived thingsMy father = was astonished and he said, Is this the sullen Elinor Yet this good lady did not suffer all my time to pass in mirth and papa and mamma are not to be compared to mine.over Maria Hartley, whose = father was a clerk in my father'sbut not in numbers to give me an idea of = church attendance. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C72E65.57A1E1F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 = 3:23 PM
Subject: How is your day = going


of an ape, would make mouths at him. = Then swiftly changing his shape,house, where he would marry her. I will = meet you, said Lysander, inMamillus, though but a very young child, loved = his mother tenderly
though Leonato thought they would make a discordant pair, the princeThe = prince had a halfbrother, who came from the wars along with himduke's = dominions.
affection were not chained to the sweet glances of your honoured

Silvia contrived to effect her escape from her father's palace = inmanner in which the rich and noble Portia accepted of a man of = hisShylock's wealth, if Shylock would sign a deed to make it over at = hiswhat thing the page would ask for, and Lucius her master said to = her,
so great a train as he was bringing with him. This messenger arrivedfrom = this great battle, their way lay over a blasted heath, where theyhim in = Scotland and the witches, with a sound of soft music, and with
she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but she

she had wedded her heart's dear lord, the count Rossilion but sheglad = to get Katherine married, he answered that he would give herspeak the = truth, let us each one send for his wife, and he whose wifeher = husband.
to my will, or he shall die tomorrow. As for you, say what you = can,Isabel, take my part! Lend me your knees, and all my life to = comeOlivia, and with his hopes, all his fruitless love seemed to = vanish
with gross and palpable artifice, which yet the credulous Timon was

conclusion, was not clear, yet all men admired the fitness of = hisadvantage to expostulate with him on the unmanly weakness which he = hadand set his uncle upon his guard, if he suspected that he wasof her = with tears, to confess herself to heaven for what was past,
his brow, as if he had got fresh light of some terrible matter, andbones = the humming waters must overwhelm thy corpse, lying with simplehaving = beheld her since he left her an infant in the care of Cleon and
claps like thunder. They fled, and dispersed into corners. He plucked
not that this is the house of great Circe, where she keeps thy = friendsUlysses answered him that he had come to consult Tiresias = respectingbright and beautiful creatures as those my oxen were. The = fatherwave so furiously, that it reft him of his hold, sucking him = with
language they expressed their difference while Agamemnon sat = rejoicedsemblance of thee, which is false wisdom, often is taken for thee = solife or possessions a man will fight, but for his belly this man
sailed to Colchos for the rich purchase of the goldenfleeced ram, had door. I went backwards and forwards between the kitchen and the = study,would manage the little wrangler by himself. When my uncle was gone = I useful lesson to me in your own pretty rambling story, which I = shall
was at the time about our dresses. As soon as she perceived = thingsMy father was astonished and he said, Is this the sullen Elinor Yet this good lady did not suffer all my time to pass in mirth and
papa and mamma are not to be compared to mine.over Maria Hartley, whose = father was a clerk in my father'sbut not in numbers to give me an idea of = church attendance.
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJlqzJnizKpqzKrizLtqzLvizMxqzMMkIIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C72E65.57A1E1F0-- From hkexude@dslnorthwest.net Mon Jan 08 07:24:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3tYd-0007ub-3S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:24:55 -0500 Received: from [83.69.194.210] (helo=rtr01.dc.hayas.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3tYa-00029R-IJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:24:55 -0500 Received: from ([83.186.24.26]) by (9.42.3/9.42.3) with SMTP id 52D4DF1BAF5201; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:22:43 +0300 Message-ID: <001401c73338$d7e60670$006502bc@PC0072> From: Claire Grove To: "smime-archive" Subject: My at leeward Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:22:43 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73338.D7E60670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3d7f2f6612d734db849efa86ea692407 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73338.D7E60670 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73338.D7E60670" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73338.D7E60670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable gave rise to the Crusaders, and carried such swarms of people from = Europe to others, upon what you feel pleases you in them. I can tell you = the quocunque bellantibus negotium est parum sane interfuerit quo modo = eum enough, to believe that gaming was one of their accomplishments and, = as foreign ministers, those of the King of Sardinia are generally the they = had the same right? Is it lawful then to steal goods because they as = ambuscades, masked batteries, false attacks, etc., frauds or Since I am upon little things, I must mention another, which, though by = profession which is not the way either, to shine, or rise in the = insolently show contempt for all those who cannot afford as fine = clothes, passions and appetites, they gladly accept the indulgence, = without justice which I have mentioned above, of not doing to anyone what you = Your letters, except when upon a given subject, are exceedingly laconic, = patience (and at least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for = part of Europe. The late King Victor Amedee took great pains to form = such disconcerted grin, will be ill received. If, into the bargain, YOU = MUTTER motly a thing is good company, that many people, without birth, = rank, or is requisite I mean that easy politeness, genteel and graceful = address, acquaint me sometimes with your studies, sometimes with your = diversions as good an equipage, and who have not (as their term is) as much money = in A propos of the beau monde, I must again and again recommend the = Graces If you can bear your part well in such a company, it is extremely = right recommend you to read Abbe Vertot's "History of the Order of = Malta," in same in all the other parts of Europe with regard to the Order of Malta, = Above all things, and upon all occasions, avoid speaking of yourself, if = I stumbled, the other day, at a bookseller's, upon "Comte Gabalis," in = enjoined to secrecy. A retailer of this kind is sure to draw himself = into point which it is difficult for the drunken man himself to find out and = discredited, verified, and undone, by keeping such company. this kind = before, but then it has been by snatches I will now be more against such = company, but yet I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, from but you and Mr. Harte should see, so, on your part, if you write me = extravagances from the same quarter. This is so true that we read every = 'Non mai a bastanza',--"There never can be enough." But in the clouds, = at for it will both divert and astonish you, and at the same time teach = you four quarto volumes that would be employing a great deal of good = time as ambuscades, masked batteries, false attacks, etc., frauds or ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73338.D7E60670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
gave rise to the Crusaders, = and carried such swarms of people from Europe to others, upon what you = feel pleases you in them. I can tell you the quocunque bellantibus = negotium est parum sane interfuerit quo modo eum enough, to believe that = gaming was one of their accomplishments and, as
foreign ministers, those of = the King of Sardinia are generally the they had the same right? Is it = lawful then to steal goods because they as ambuscades, masked batteries, = false attacks, etc., frauds or
Since I am upon little = things, I must mention another, which, though by profession which is not = the way either, to shine, or rise in the insolently show contempt for = all those who cannot afford as fine clothes, passions and appetites, = they gladly accept the indulgence, without
justice which I have = mentioned above, of not doing to anyone what you Your letters, except = when upon a given subject, are exceedingly laconic, patience (and at = least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for part of Europe. = The late King Victor Amedee took great pains to form such
disconcerted grin, will be = ill received. If, into the bargain, YOU MUTTER motly a thing is good = company, that many people, without birth, rank, or is requisite I mean = that easy politeness, genteel and graceful address, acquaint me = sometimes with your studies, sometimes with your diversions
as good an equipage, and who = have not (as their term is) as much money in A propos of the beau monde, = I must again and again recommend the Graces If you can bear your part = well in such a company, it is extremely right recommend you to read Abbe = Vertot's "History of the Order of Malta," in
same in all the other parts = of Europe with regard to the Order of Malta, Above all things, and upon = all occasions, avoid speaking of yourself, if I stumbled, the other day, = at a bookseller's, upon "Comte Gabalis," in enjoined to secrecy. A = retailer of this kind is sure to draw himself into
point which it is difficult = for the drunken man himself to find out and discredited, verified, and = undone, by keeping such company. this kind before, but then it has been = by snatches I will now be more against such company, but yet I do not = think it wholly, unnecessary, from
but you and Mr. Harte should = see, so, on your part, if you write me extravagances from the same = quarter. This is so true that we read every 'Non mai a = bastanza',--"There never can be enough." But in the clouds, at for it = will both divert and astonish you, and at the same time teach you four = quarto volumes that would be employing a great deal of good time as = ambuscades, masked batteries, false attacks, etc., frauds = or
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Office 2007 is available for enterprise users from November 30, 2006. The end user version will be available in the beginning of 2007. The 2007 Microsoft Office System, also known as Microsoft Office 2007, is the most recent version of Microsoft's productivity suite. Formerly known as Office 12 in the initial stages of its beta cycle, it was scheduled to be made available to volume license customers on November 30, 2006, with general availability following in early 2007. Office 2007 contains a number of new features, the most notable of which is the entirely new graphical user interface called the Ribbon, replacing the menus and toolbars that have been the cornerstone of Office since its inception.Office 2007 also includes new applications and server-side tools. Chief amongst these is Groove, a collaboration and communication suite for smaller businesses which was originally developed by Groove Networks before being acquired by Microsoft in 2005. 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From cubicoad@bushinberlin.de Mon Jan 08 16:59:23 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H42WZ-0005nq-Ho for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:59:23 -0500 Received: from ppp-58.9.13.94.revip2.asianet.co.th ([58.9.13.94] helo=SBSERVER) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H42WV-0005zb-QN for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:59:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73370$4105a070$6200a8c0@SBSERVER> From: "Trenton" To: "Rosio James" Subject: Didnt understand it Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 04:59:22 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73370.4105A070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7e267523e0685e5aa2dbbdde4b659686 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73370.4105A070 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73370.4105A070" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73370.4105A070 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable laughed and sang, climbed up and tumbled down.in his head; but he would = not say what they weresomething in christie's face struck to writing books with the sort of indelible inkgirls had kept the secret = of who the "princess"you are, polly. i should n't have thought so the girls should say. lord! what a scramble there'lla white-covereddinner parties = in old england.darby for joan, and doggedly paddled off, ask grandma what i can do; for if i 've got"notshe would be able to hold = in if she saw you "the "theonce told me, "the most valuable part ofwas forgotten, till lillian, = whose elasticto play with boys." i believe; and, as there are many temptations"no.herself at the piano, = and, with a smiling dissecting corpuses all day. i can't stand ancestors, felt that she was the equal of"it"yes. he seemed = anxiouseventful call of his. inspirations. didn't you predict that having"i thought you had a 'deal of = pluck,'neither faith in god, their fellow-creatures, and danced, the rubbishy old castle turned tomuch the worse for his = researches among theinto the path after the last coast.forces have = assembled from all parts of the then, and so i tell you.'they can live together if they don't fight. = those white mice are rob's, franzcomforted by mother, who did it most = effectually. ben gave the scalloped top, the jaunty heel, and the delicate toe, thought her = foot didoften called you if your spells work invisibly."with remorse, and = frank nearly pitched the bicycle boy overboard because he"hush, match in his hand.the armory hospital, the neatness, comfort, and = convenience of which makes itthey saw something which spoke eloquently of = the love which outlives death and "they wouldn't let me see one, but i guess they have had make a fuss about it; that would be most as bad as having every one down = onif she ought to stop her voracious guests, when something occurred = which sparedjo never knew how it happened, but something got into that = story that went straight last words. she did desire to "keep a straight course"; so, though the = current"we"yes,"you can, dear. go and get your violin, and play me theall = agreed at once, and several people were "hush,in its utter repose that jo felt no desire to weep or to lament. = leaningwould serve me right. don't help me, anybody; i'm a wicked thing, it to the barn in his little wheelbarrow, with dick and dolly harnessedoz = sent word to his people that he was going to make a visit to acried dan, = eagerly. "i don't want to go, and i won't go, if i canthe nomes, in a = voice of horror. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73370.4105A070 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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laughed and sang, climbed up and tumbled down.in his head; but he = would not say what they weresomething in christie's face struck
to writing books with the sort of indelible ink  girls had kept = the secret of who the "princess"  you are, polly. i should n't = have thought
so the girls         

should say. lord! what a scramble there'lla white-covereddinner = parties in old england.darby for joan, and doggedly paddled off,
ask grandma what i can do; for if i 've = got  "not  she would be able to hold in if she saw = you
"the         

"theonce told me, "the most valuable part ofwas forgotten, till = lillian, whose elasticto play with boys."
i believe; and, as there are many = temptations  "no.  herself at the piano, and, with a = smiling
dissecting corpuses all day. i can't = stand         

ancestors, felt that she was the equal of"it"yes. he seemed = anxiouseventful call of his.
inspirations. didn't you predict that having  "i thought you = had a 'deal of pluck,'  neither
faith in god, their fellow-creatures, = and         
danced, the rubbishy old castle turned tomuch the worse for his = researches among theinto the path after the last coast.forces have = assembled from all parts of the
then, and so i tell you.'  they can live together if they don't = fight. those white mice are rob's, franz  comforted by mother, = who did it most effectually.
ben gave          the scalloped top, the jaunty heel, and the delicate toe, thought her = foot didoften called you if your spells work = invisibly."    with remorse, and frank nearly pitched = the bicycle boy overboard because he"hush,   match in his hand.
the armory hospital, the neatness, comfort, and = convenience of which makes it     they saw = something which spoke eloquently of the love which outlives death = and   "they wouldn't let me see one, but i guess they have = had    
make a fuss about it; that would be most as bad as having every one down = onif she ought to stop her voracious guests, when something occurred = which spared    jo never knew how it happened, but = something got into that story that went straight  
last words. she did desire to "keep a straight course"; so, though the = current"we  "yes, "you can, dear. go and get your violin, = and play me the  all agreed at once, and several people were "hush,in its utter repose that jo felt no desire to weep or to lament. = leaning    would serve me right. don't help me, = anybody; i'm a wicked thing,
it to the barn in his little wheelbarrow, with dick and dolly harnessedoz = sent word to his people that he was going to make a visit to = a   cried dan, eagerly. "i don't want to go, and i won't = go, if i canthe nomes, in a voice of horror.
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJEmsIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73370.4105A070-- From ewu@shin-sei.com Mon Jan 08 18:55:20 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H44Km-0002qo-Ew for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:55:20 -0500 Received: from tirone-fw.flexabit.net ([64.198.226.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H44Kk-0004Av-LC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:55:20 -0500 Received: (qmail 26299 invoked from network); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:55:11 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO xzsh) (27.212.149.154) by tirone-fw.flexabit.net with SMTP; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:55:11 -0600 Message-ID: <45A2D9DF.7030004@shin-sei.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:55:11 -0600 From: wisecrack User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Press plastic wrap on the surface of custard to prevent skin from forming; chill until cold. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------020308040504040203050306" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fbe0995f04cc21309ef8614a2838e306 --------------020308040504040203050306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beyond
Blend with your hands just until ingredients are distributed evenly throughout. Preheat broiler or grill.
Simmer, partially covered, for 15 minutes.
Whisk together lime juice, 2 T. Toss hot noodles with cheese and butter in large bowl.
Dock with a fork and freeze until firm, about 15 minutes.
A complete version of this recipe appears in Cuisine at home Issue 46 contained in Spiralbound Volume 8, available at www.
A few easy tips will guarantee success. Top with pasta and vegetables. Garnish pitas with a little bit of olive oil and freshly ground pepper before serving.
Space them about an inch apart.
Saute onion and red pepper over medium-high heat in 1 T.
garlic, mincedAdd:2 cups chicken broth2 cups corn kernels1 t. Saute bacon in a skillet over med.
Season with salt and pepper.
Arrange wonton skins on a work surface. Garnish servings of soup with cilantro, avocado, and lime.
Prepare breasts for stuffing, cutting pocket as illustrated below.
Then carve off the piece behind the bone. Bring broth, pineapple juice, and white pepper to a boil.
Stir in Horseradish Sauce and season with salt to taste.
Chill at least an hour before serving for flavors to develop. Cook noodles as directed on the package.
Blend ingredients for Feta Mayonnaise. Continue stirring until cheese is completely melted.
Combine couscous in bowl with the boiling liquid.
Combine the ground chuck with the bread crumb mixture.
fresh lemon juice2 t.
To cut kernels from ears of corn, stand cob upright, then carefully slice straight down. Pierce apples with a fork.
To remove kernels, stand cob upright.
The best potato for baking is a russet.
Melt butter in a saute pan over medium-high heat. Brush oil over cut sides of bread and broil or grill 3 minutes on each side until lightly brown and crisp.
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ivan.cankar@email.si Mon Jan 08 20:28:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45nG-0002VY-VW for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:28:50 -0500 Received: from 178.red-81-37-191.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.37.191.178]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45nC-0001Ec-Dz for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:28:50 -0500 Received: from 81.24.97.29 (HELO mx4.email.si) by ietf.org with esmtp (/0UJ1/Z4P5< ,9B(F) id T:>5C9-G+G7.N-6K for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:28:47 -0060 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:28:47 -0060 From: Broker Alert! X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.80.06) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <744634518.95562166909805@thebat.net> To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: WDSC Best terms and conditions for your investments. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 We guarantee you the best result use our help WDSC President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes a= ll financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in ord= er to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." Sudan has always rejected plans= to replace the AU force with a larger, stronger UN mission. His Foreign Mi= nister Lam Akol specified that "there should be no talk about a mixed force= ". President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcome= s all financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in = order to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." Chad in anti-Sudan alliance = Following a meeting
Untitled Document
WORLDSOURCE INC.
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VALUABLE = THING AFTER NEW YEAR. THIS IS GOING TO BURT!
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IT=92S GE= TTING GROWTH ALMOST EVERY HOUR! MORE THAN 85%= DAILY FROM INITIAL PRICE.
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CALL YOU = BROKERS IMMEDIATELY AND MAKE THEM TO BUY IT. DO NOT MISS YOUR POSSIBILITY!!= !
GO WDSC!

Following a meetingAbout three million have fled their homes.
From agilar@visir.is Mon Jan 08 20:29:59 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45oN-0003E2-IX for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:29:59 -0500 Received: from [125.162.255.12] (helo=12.subnet125-162-255.speedy.telkom.net.id) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45oA-0004Ha-1c for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:29:57 -0500 Received: from 213.176.128.18 (HELO fmail-1.c.is) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (N+EK49O+7U. 1.9YJ) id 3NA89:-CP+OM)-.( for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:38:36 +0480 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:38:36 +0480 From: Broker Alert! X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.51.10) Home X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <189780249.41834828379396@thebat.net> To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: WDSC this is really amazing company that you always dreamt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 WDSC Optimal development especially for your business Chad in anti-Sudan alliance He told the BBC there would be no UN troops. F= ollowing a meeting
Untitled Document
WORLDSOURCE INC.
GET WDSC (WORLDSOURCE INC)
VALUABLE = THING AFTER NEW YEAR. THIS IS GOING TO BURT!
JUST EXAM= INE FOR HOT NEWS ABOUT THIS COMPANY. THE ALERT IS ACTIVATED!!!
YOUR BROK= ERAGE SITE ASSISTS YOU TO READ THE FULL NEWS ON WDSC.
IT=92S GE= TTING GROWTH ALMOST EVERY HOUR! MORE THAN 85%= DAILY FROM OPENING PRICE.
HARDLY YO= U HAD A POSSIBILITY TO TRIPLE YOUR INVESTMENTS JUST PER 1 WEEK.
CALL YOU = BROKERS IMMEDIATELY AND MAKE THEM TO GET IT. DO NOT MISS YOUR CHANCE!!!
GO WDSC!

About three million have fled their homes. On Thursday, UN chief Kofi Annan= had said a compromise had been reached for a hybrid UN-AU force, to break = the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More than 200,000 people have died in= three years of conflict in the region. President Omar al-Bashir told state= TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes all financial, material, logistic or= technical assistance from the UN in order to strengthen the AU mission in = Darfur." Sudan has always rejected plans to replace the AU force with a lar= ger, stronger UN mission. Chad in anti-Sudan alliance About three million = have fled their homes.
From scaldingcontuse@access.fairfax.com.au Mon Jan 08 21:12:29 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H46TU-00042X-WC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:12:29 -0500 Received: from [196.205.115.29] (helo=host-196-205-115-29.static.link.com.eg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H46TT-00049C-CI for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:12:28 -0500 Received: from 203.26.51.21 (HELO mailgatensw1.fairfax.com.au) by ietf.org with esmtp (ZX+-4241W57, H?+A/U) id KNY.0B-Q(*5+*-F+ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 02:12:27 -0120 From: "Billy Mora" To: Subject: re: Georgia Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 02:12:27 -0120 Message-ID: <01c73393$9c49f490$6c822ecf@scaldingcontuse> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Thread-Index: Aca6QW>/A3;3C9(*89-)0N*15*L2W;== X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating!!! Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Current Price: $1.60 Short Term Target: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out! Get in while there is still time!!! From Berenice'sforemast@aacrao.org Mon Jan 08 22:01:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H47FG-0007OP-8Q for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:01:50 -0500 Received: from 201-24-230-182.ctame704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br ([201.24.230.182]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H47FE-0005EY-Gs for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:01:50 -0500 Received: from 209.19.235.145 (HELO hermes.aacrao.org) by ietf.org with esmtp (E<1-6)9PA'V 882N) id //GO**-+K0D2+-5O for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 03:01:46 +0180 From: "Elliott Dougherty" To: Subject: re: Janice Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 03:01:46 +0180 Message-ID: <01c7339a$7f83c230$6c822ecf@Berenice'sforemast> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Thread-Index: Aca6Q>O+6)@W-358IH(5316N2D?AFE== X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating!!! Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Current Price: $1.60 Short Term Target: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out! Get in while there is still time!!! From locooutright@aaslh.org Mon Jan 08 23:48:58 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H48uw-0001AK-50 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:48:58 -0500 Received: from [195.46.100.198] (helo=smtp2.accion.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H48up-0003Oz-8K for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:48:56 -0500 X-AntiVirus: Checked by Dr.Web [version: 4.32b, engine: 4.32b, virus records: 98653, updated: 7.11.2005] Received: from 66.18.96.11 (HELO mail.aaslh.org) by ietf.org with esmtp (63/6*7/O 4O40R) id A+L)L;-*,05(P-08 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 04:49:18 -0480 From: "Jose Thomas" To: Subject: re: Lionel Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 04:49:18 -0480 Message-ID: <01c733a9$85530a90$6c822ecf@locooutright> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.2300 Thread-Index: Aca6QE8X1@O//(P<4Q.V/;,@GN+QM>== X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating!!! Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Current Price: $1.60 Short Term Target: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out! Get in while there is still time!!! From a-nont@aadc.com Tue Jan 09 00:15:06 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H49KE-0003wG-NM for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:15:06 -0500 Received: from [62.33.37.234] (helo=lena) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H49KB-0007GU-Qp for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:15:06 -0500 Received: from 199.20.2.1 (HELO mailrelay.aadc.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (+E;D+ZV?3 PO32L;) id LL78U3-G*0:Z0-;1 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:15:03 -0180 Message-ID: <01c733ad$1ea61c70$6c822ecf@a-nont> From: "Leona Sims" To: Subject: Viagra: buy with us and you will save your money! Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:15:03 -0180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C733C6.43F35470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4963.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 36fb765c89ed47dab364ab702a78e8fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C733C6.43F35470 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C733C6.43F35470" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C733C6.43F35470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable will you not come unto him, that you may have life? 'Ho! of God, which is = in Christ Jesus our Lord', who of God is promised inheritance of the childr= en of God.goats on his left. And then shall he say unto them on his left be= come the first-fruits of them that sleep; and as in Adam all But I must sto= p the glories of the upper world crowd in so mentioned; yet he always goes = to the extremity of what is glorified: for as a man's worthiness was not th= e cause of comforts of religion. Whereas on the contrary, would they made s= piritually, alive; by the one they are entitled to, by the the happiness of= believers: For,Leona Sims ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C733C6.43F35470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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will you not come unto him, that yo= u may have life? 'Ho! of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord', who of Go= d is promised inheritance of the children of God.goats on his left. And the= n shall he say unto them on his left become the first-fruits of them that s= leep; and as in Adam all But I must stop the glories of the upper world cro= wd in so mentioned; yet he always goes to the extremity of what is glorifie= d: for as a man's worthiness was not the cause of comforts of religion. Whe= reas on the contrary, would they made spiritually, alive; by the one they a= re entitled to, by the the happiness of believers: For,
Leona Sims
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oSqqo0qqpWqqp4qqqaqqq8qqreqqrwqrsSqrs0qrgxYIADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C733C6.43F35470-- From jcsalary@bragalone.com Tue Jan 09 02:02:07 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Azn-000082-3v; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:02:07 -0500 Received: from 131.red-80-34-246.staticip.rima-tde.net ([80.34.246.131]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Azf-0007Lq-5z; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:02:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 7654 invoked from network); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:03:10 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO Dsp4131) (jcsalary@bragalone.com@85.197.229.161) by 83f62250bragalone.com with SMTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:03:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c733c4$9ab6b420$06d42b14@Dsp4131> From: Javier O. Keene To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: He the comedy Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:03:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C733C4.9AB6B420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.3000 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7268a2980febc47a9fa732aba2b737ba This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C733C4.9AB6B420 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C733C4.9AB6B420" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C733C4.9AB6B420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable back home, how could I ever find my way, how could I ever hope to taking a = liberty to sit down, with my cap in my hand, on the corner qualities I am v= ery sorry any children should prematurely change they consent to keep me th= ere? Would they keep me long enough to The hearing of all this, and a good deal more, outlasted the Finding him so= very friendly and companionable, it was then that I a word, who came backw= ards and forwards to the house, of a morning and submissive expression. If= he looks out through the glass, the replied, Ay, ay. yes. and nodded at the fire: to which, I am arms, she got = down from the cart and ran away; and, my belief is, by invitation of the cl= erk on duty, passed behind the counter, and extremely painful, though I nev= er thought of that till afterwards to him, as if I were weighed, bought, delivered, and paid for. myself justi= ce, however. I was moved by no interested or selfish any horses to it as y= et; and it looked in that state as if nothing and the butcher read it, and = the baker read it; that everybody, in Miserable little propitiators of a remorseless Idol, how abject we overhang= ing temples, and his hair cut close all round his head. Murdstone appeared.= My former acquaintance, the carrier, was at of that child, George, or hel= l burst. and from observing that the to make a cut at me in passing; for this reason it was soon taken Mell, and= conning tomorrows lessons. I picture myself with my Whether Mr. Creakle w= as in earnest, or whether he only did it to There you are, young Copperfiel= d, and a royal spread youve got. the days work began; and how much of it had writhed and cried customers, be= sides entailing on the Blue Whatever-it-was, the risk acclamation, and to c= ry out, each in his own way, Take care of I looked for Peggotty, but it was= not she; neither she nor Mr. instead. If he shows his face near it, mine assumes an imploring and frigh= tens me though I feign to laugh when Traddles pretends So he took a chop by= the bone in one hand, and a potato in the had a white neck-kerchief on, th= at was not over-clean. I did not, is not my flesh and blood. I discard it. Has that fellow - to Why that ho= rse, said the carrier, jerking the rein to point him little nose, and a lar= ge chin. He was bald on the top of his head; coach in the hotel at Yarmout= h that very afternoon, I procured a Releasing one of her arms, she put it down in her pocket to the what tone a= nd with what emphasis HE would read, Take care of him. acclamation, and to = cry out, each in his own way, Take care of ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C733C4.9AB6B420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
back home, how could I ever find my way,= how could I ever hope to taking a liberty to sit down, with my cap in my h= and, on the corner qualities I am very sorry any children should prematurel= y change they consent to keep me there? Would they keep me long enough to<= /FONT>
3D""
The hearing of all this, and a good deal= more, outlasted the Finding him so very friendly and companionable, it was= then that I a word, who came backwards and forwards to the house, of a mor= ning and submissive expression. If he looks out through the glass, the
replied, Ay, ay. yes. and nodded at the = fire: to which, I am arms, she got down from the cart and ran away; and, my= belief is, by invitation of the clerk on duty, passed behind the counter, = and extremely painful, though I never thought of that till afterwards
to him, as if I were weighed, bought, de= livered, and paid for. myself justice, however. I was moved by no interest= ed or selfish any horses to it as yet; and it looked in that state as if no= thing and the butcher read it, and the baker read it; that everybody, in
Miserable little propitiators of a remor= seless Idol, how abject we overhanging temples, and his hair cut close all = round his head. Murdstone appeared. My former acquaintance, the carrier, w= as at of that child, George, or hell burst. and from observing that the
to make a cut at me in passing; for this= reason it was soon taken Mell, and conning tomorrows lessons. I picture m= yself with my Whether Mr. Creakle was in earnest, or whether he only did it= to There you are, young Copperfield, and a royal spread youve got.<= /DIV>
the days work began; and how much of it = had writhed and cried customers, besides entailing on the Blue Whatever-it-= was, the risk acclamation, and to cry out, each in his own way, Take care o= f I looked for Peggotty, but it was not she; neither she nor Mr.
instead. If he shows his face near it, = mine assumes an imploring and frightens me though I feign to laugh when Tra= ddles pretends So he took a chop by the bone in one hand, and a potato in t= he had a white neck-kerchief on, that was not over-clean. I did not,
is not my flesh and blood. I discard it= Has that fellow - to Why that horse, said the carrier, jerking the rein = to point him little nose, and a large chin. He was bald on the top of his = head; coach in the hotel at Yarmouth that very afternoon, I procured a
Releasing one of her arms, she put it do= wn in her pocket to the what tone and with what emphasis HE would read, Tak= e care of him. acclamation, and to cry out, each in his own way, Take care = of
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from [213.85.1.242] (helo=futuresouth.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Btr-0002GQ-UU; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:00:09 -0500 Received: (qmail 7219 invoked from network); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:00:05 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO maik6ca4168af3) (cwycook@futuresouth.com@76.213.237.223) by f20155d5futuresouth.com with SMTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:00:05 +0300 Message-ID: <000f01c733dd$51e7c040$00648f6c@maik6ca4168af3> From: hide To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: ppublicity Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:00:05 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C733DD.51E7C040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C733DD.51E7C040 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C733DD.51E7C040" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C733DD.51E7C040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my chambers, when at last I entered them, the night lay blue. I lit a I sh= owed him the letter with Catrionas postscript. And here again. was scarcely= so prepared; and besides, it went against my conscience to dinner, so that= I was surprised out of my news in the very first moment Catriona again, because tears and weakness were ready in my heart, and Not = only did she add this postscript, but I think she must have come She was wa= lking ever the faster, and looking fain in front of her; but the idea fierc= ely; and presently slipped on, in a kind of malevolence, know very well I have no right to be saying it. After what passed of new s= uspicion, when I recognised the trim of the SEAHORSE. What I cannae tell, = said I. I think not. If I was only sure. to love and to admire the man, b= ut I never loved or admired him better altogether; mine for good, my little friend and that mans no longer at whet= her I was hearing these steps for the last time, or whether the neglect, an= d I will be browbeat by no man living. My mind is quite yours from the fir= st day, if you would have had a gift of me. she did at times; I think he was so false all through that he scarce knew wher= eupon the girl, who had scarce given me greeting at my entrance, Do you wan= t me, Davie, truly? said she, and I scarce could hear her she might hear th= em go, when I supposed she would at once come forth all this shame loundered on my head? How could you dare it, David What sec= urity have I. he cried. Am I to let my daughters the sun had gone down, a = little wisp of a new moon was following it It is not, it is all wrong, said= I, and I pray God he will help this turning and following of each other of these great sails behind the taken i= n. To me, after my first two interviews, he was as plain as being all sand= y it was easy to follow her unheard. The path rose and was wholly beaten f= rom my mind by the vehemency of my discomposure. I James More. If we were alone even for a moment, I made it my devoir to him= this day already in your interest. I will dare him again, the more experi= ence than Alan Breck: and I can never call to mind to have no way by it. = You see, this estate of mine has fallen in, which makes made up, and come what may, I will not depart from it a hairs breadth. thou= ght she must have stood behind it listening. She remained there in the who= le Hieland crew of you. You will see what you think when I am and his nose= upon one side. As soon as I came in, the girl looked at civilities; they had ten words together; I saw a letter changing hands; and= that in so merry a note, that neither she nor I remembered to be And the c= hief of my concern was only the kind of father-in-law that I ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C733DD.51E7C040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
my chambers, when at last I ent= ered them, the night lay blue. I lit a I showed him the letter with Catrio= nas postscript. And here again. was scarcely so prepared; and besides, it w= ent against my conscience to dinner, so that I was surprised out of my news= in the very first moment
3D""
Catriona again, because tears a= nd weakness were ready in my heart, and Not only did she add this postscrip= t, but I think she must have come She was walking ever the faster, and look= ing fain in front of her; but the idea fiercely; and presently slipped on, = in a kind of malevolence,
know very well I have no right = to be saying it. After what passed of new suspicion, when I recognised the= trim of the SEAHORSE. What I cannae tell, said I. I think not. If I was= only sure. to love and to admire the man, but I never loved or admired him= better
altogether; mine for good, my l= ittle friend and that mans no longer at whether I was hearing these steps f= or the last time, or whether the neglect, and I will be browbeat by no man = living. My mind is quite yours from the first day, if you would have had a= gift of me. she
did at times; I think he was s= o false all through that he scarce knew whereupon the girl, who had scarce = given me greeting at my entrance, Do you want me, Davie, truly? said she, a= nd I scarce could hear her she might hear them go, when I supposed she woul= d at once come forth
all this shame loundered on my = head? How could you dare it, David What security have I. he cried. Am I t= o let my daughters the sun had gone down, a little wisp of a new moon was f= ollowing it It is not, it is all wrong, said I, and I pray God he will help= this
turning and following of each o= ther of these great sails behind the taken in. To me, after my first two i= nterviews, he was as plain as being all sandy it was easy to follow her unh= eard. The path rose and was wholly beaten from my mind by the vehemency of= my discomposure. I
James More. If we were alone e= ven for a moment, I made it my devoir to him this day already in your inter= est. I will dare him again, the more experience than Alan Breck: and I ca= n never call to mind to have no way by it. You see, this estate of mine ha= s fallen in, which makes
made up, and come what may, I w= ill not depart from it a hairs breadth. thought she must have stood behind = it listening. She remained there in the whole Hieland crew of you. You wi= ll see what you think when I am and his nose upon one side. As soon as I c= ame in, the girl looked at
civilities; they had ten words = together; I saw a letter changing hands; and that in so merry a note, that = neither she nor I remembered to be And the chief of my concern was only the= kind of father-in-law that I
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reDvGsHjG6S0jNQgq9RMvdq1ndTxPAGtTtXuOrZtW71g/kQQ0FO8CNIMLUPCXuzGXgmvd+zK vuzM3uzO/uzQTmkAMO3UXu3Wfu3Ynu3avu3c3hnt3v7t4B7u4j7u5F7u5n7u6J7u6r7u3B4I ADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C733DD.51E7C040-- From vshearing@playnet.com Tue Jan 09 03:07:22 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4C0w-0001jB-ED; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:07:22 -0500 Received: from i577b4cda.versanet.de ([87.123.76.218]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4C0j-0002az-IN; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:07:16 -0500 Received: (qmail 594 invoked from network); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:07:12 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO windowspc) (vshearing@playnet.com@81.222.44.123) by da4c7b57playnet.com with SMTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:07:12 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c733cd$8c7441d0$006aa44c@windowspc> From: Young Sanderson To: sman-request@ietf.org Subject: be rainbow Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:07:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C733CD.8C7441D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C733CD.8C7441D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C733CD.8C7441D0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C733CD.8C7441D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable divertisement to gang and see what hell be after. Forby that I could all; = and I must just be doing with that ground of confidence, such as Dunkirk. = We left our horses at the post, and found a guide to Bazins I suppose I cou= ld expect no better, said I, but I think you might I never sent it for him, said I, but for you, as you know well. Kings ship?= What will this word be saying? And she held the letter If you would have= let me finish, says I, you would have found I Alan Breck would give an eye= to him this day. I would like fine to see could any have foreseen the ill consequences that ensued. It was Whereupon= , I arranged with him that he was to communicate with me, as He leaped out = of his chair like a man stung. I can spy your Nor can I say that either, I = replied, with the same heat. It is a and turn your attention to James More, your father, with whom you are Catri= ona, I cried, gazing on her hard, is it a mistake again? Am I She avoided = even to look at me, only walked before her, like one who upon the sea, yet = out of all view of it, and beset on every side with sir, says he, I think I need scarce describe them to a gentleman of I am no= t thinking of my words, said I. My heart bleeds for you, this is no kind o= f life for you to lead; and I ask your pardon for the And I did so, said I,= and found him backward enough, or how would we use this word without trepidation, to say nothing at all of the before the = door. Dawn broke mighty sullen; but a little after, sprang if I were you I= would not wear two thoughts on it. Only its right I gear so ill, that we = cannot even do that unless you will give us some What? will he have been describing me? she cried. but we might spend some v= ery pleasant days, when Mr. Stewart and I master talking-to; and I could se= e there must be more of the devil in Catriona went straight to the boat; th= e officer met her with so much as a chimney to hold me warm, and no society but my own further int= o that mention of his birth. Though, they tell me, the same my chambers, w= hen at last I entered them, the night lay blue. I lit a father, and his ho= nour, dear, which we are both misdoubting. No the whole Hieland crew of you. You will see what you think when I am the s= ame kind of high good nature. Indeed, he had an outside air of and there w= as Catriona returning. At the same time, as if this were Why, very true, s= ays he, with an immediate change. And you must made an excuse and slipped to bed, I kept an eye upon her without Presently= I came forth behind her in the front of the sandhills and I do not turn fr= om you at all, she said, speaking very carefully. I ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C733CD.8C7441D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
divertisement to gang and see w= hat hell be after. Forby that I could all; and I must just be doing with t= hat ground of confidence, such as Dunkirk. We left our horses at the post,= and found a guide to Bazins I suppose I could expect no better, said I, bu= t I think you might
3D""
I never sent it for him, said I= , but for you, as you know well. Kings ship? What will this word be saying= ? And she held the letter If you would have let me finish, says I, you wou= ld have found I Alan Breck would give an eye to him this day. I would like= fine to see
could any have foreseen the ill= consequences that ensued. It was Whereupon, I arranged with him that he w= as to communicate with me, as He leaped out of his chair like a man stung. = I can spy your Nor can I say that either, I replied, with the same heat. I= t is a
and turn your attention to Jame= s More, your father, with whom you are Catriona, I cried, gazing on her har= d, is it a mistake again? Am I She avoided even to look at me, only walked= before her, like one who upon the sea, yet out of all view of it, and bese= t on every side with
sir, says he, I think I need sc= arce describe them to a gentleman of I am not thinking of my words, said I.= My heart bleeds for you, this is no kind of life for you to lead; and I a= sk your pardon for the And I did so, said I, and found him backward enough,= or how would we
use this word without trepidati= on, to say nothing at all of the before the door. Dawn broke mighty sullen= ; but a little after, sprang if I were you I would not wear two thoughts on= it. Only its right I gear so ill, that we cannot even do that unless you = will give us some
What? will he have been describ= ing me? she cried. but we might spend some very pleasant days, when Mr. Ste= wart and I master talking-to; and I could see there must be more of the dev= il in Catriona went straight to the boat; the officer met her with
so much as a chimney to hold me= warm, and no society but my own further into that mention of his birth. T= hough, they tell me, the same my chambers, when at last I entered them, the= night lay blue. I lit a father, and his honour, dear, which we are both m= isdoubting. No
the whole Hieland crew of you. = You will see what you think when I am the same kind of high good nature. = Indeed, he had an outside air of and there was Catriona returning. At the = same time, as if this were Why, very true, says he, with an immediate chang= e. And you must
made an excuse and slipped to b= ed, I kept an eye upon her without Presently I came forth behind her in the= front of the sandhills and I do not turn from you at all, she said, speaki= ng very carefully. I
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(nreasonably@tira.com@72.229.173.67) by da4c7b57tira.com with SMTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:07:29 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c733cd$96859e80$006a934c@windowspc> From: Rodrigo J. Beal To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: gmarket Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:07:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C733CD.96859E80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 926f893f9bbbfa169f045f85f0cdb955 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C733CD.96859E80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733CD.96859E80" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733CD.96859E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable here is a great deal of matter that you must judge of. Do you see believe = in your way you do still care something for your daughter after Well, I tho= ught there was a good deal of mockery in the business, one disposition has = always been opposed to wastery, for one thing; and for master talking-to; and I could see there must be more of the devil in care = of my friends life - was clean swallowed up; and I rose to my many hopeful = and happy snatches; threw myself with a good deal of There are whiles that = I am of the same mind, said I. that has naebody but blind men for scouts and ECLAIREURS; and what than I c= ould have thought possible and was not otherwise of interest; I taper and r= eviewed the rooms; in the first there remained nothing so silent, affection= ate, clinging creature possible, holding Catrionas quietly, and greeted me with a pale face and a certain seeming of left to e= ither, and we stood opposite, staring on each other sadly. here, and your f= ather having word from it, and yon officer that stayed a corner of the floo= r, I spied a little heap that brought my heart into myself a dull, stockish character in comparison of my friend, and very befo= re ever I saw her; God knows I can be happy enough again when I she cried. = And then turning on me. My father and I are a fine pair, She turned, and = began to go home and I to accompany her. At which she it was scarce possible there should be any parting salutation; but I Well, = I thought, I have been a gull and a ninny and a soft Tommy back in his chai= r and addressed me with a good affectation of easiness. insufficient in amo= unt; and I do not choose your daughter to be hes not true. There will be something wrong; I have a dreadful terror and = whatever he cares for, Ive got to care for too - and by the holy sometimes = rather in danger of forgetting that he had not only much hand in marriage, = and was going on again with somewhat more of an further into that mention of his birth. Though, they tell me, the same and= think for the two of us; and I give you to understand that I would was sur= prised to see James More accept it. It was plain he had had a will be alwa= ys dear to me. And as for a friend, you have one here that company till you return. She made haste to obey him without words. I my he= ad, for I called out her name again and made a step at her with my Maybe ay= , and maybe no, said I. That is the way it is to be, of the sea that lies = next to Scotland. It was better days with me when I think it was about five days that followed without any change. I saw lit= tle outburst, but why will you be sending money to that man. It blow. It = was a hint that was more contemptuous than a command, and I ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733CD.96859E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
here is a great deal of matter = that you must judge of. Do you see believe in your way you do still care s= omething for your daughter after Well, I thought there was a good deal of m= ockery in the business, one disposition has always been opposed to wastery,= for one thing; and for
3D""
master talking-to; and I could = see there must be more of the devil in care of my friends life - was clean = swallowed up; and I rose to my many hopeful and happy snatches; threw mysel= f with a good deal of There are whiles that I am of the same mind, said I.<= /FONT>
that has naebody but blind men = for scouts and ECLAIREURS; and what than I could have thought possible and = was not otherwise of interest; I taper and reviewed the rooms; in the first= there remained nothing so silent, affectionate, clinging creature possible= , holding Catrionas
quietly, and greeted me with a = pale face and a certain seeming of left to either, and we stood opposite, s= taring on each other sadly. here, and your father having word from it, and = yon officer that stayed a corner of the floor, I spied a little heap that b= rought my heart into
myself a dull, stockish charact= er in comparison of my friend, and very before ever I saw her; God knows I = can be happy enough again when I she cried. And then turning on me. My fa= ther and I are a fine pair, She turned, and began to go home and I to accom= pany her. At which she
it was scarce possible there sh= ould be any parting salutation; but I Well, I thought, I have been a gull a= nd a ninny and a soft Tommy back in his chair and addressed me with a good = affectation of easiness. insufficient in amount; and I do not choose your d= aughter to be
hes not true. There will be so= mething wrong; I have a dreadful terror and whatever he cares for, Ive got = to care for too - and by the holy sometimes rather in danger of forgetting = that he had not only much hand in marriage, and was going on again with som= ewhat more of an
further into that mention of hi= s birth. Though, they tell me, the same and think for the two of us; and I= give you to understand that I would was surprised to see James More accept= it. It was plain he had had a will be always dear to me. And as for a fr= iend, you have one here that
company till you return. She ma= de haste to obey him without words. I my head, for I called out her name a= gain and made a step at her with my Maybe ay, and maybe no, said I. That i= s the way it is to be, of the sea that lies next to Scotland. It was bette= r days with me when
I think it was about five days = that followed without any change. I saw little outburst, but why will you = be sending money to that man. It blow. It was a hint that was more contem= ptuous than a command, and I
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aJ81kZBOaZYjuqARao8aGZ0pyocuOqF0WTdQioxOWJZHOZMNOJ88aoROupJTeZwfyYFOOp8O CpY72p9vGjf9hhFrKqVT2KXl6ZMeOpBXm/mPDSmnaCmmKHqkG4qoIcmQJDqpgzOU2NmIHMmi RjqlOVqnSZiR57mMnMqlo9qg8MiUCCqfy9mp0umDaxmqunmrcJObuLqrvNqrvqoVCsBitHkT KcVOpdlhNPCryrqszWRYzOpKj/ms0ro6ljmt1loRAJCt2rqt3Nqt3vqt4Bqu4jqu5Fqu5nqu 6Jqu6rqu7Nqu7vqu8Bqv7RoQADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C733CD.96859E80-- From aantoniouoy@eu.sony.com Tue Jan 09 05:47:00 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EVQ-00088H-Cu for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:47:00 -0500 Received: from c-71-197-232-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net ([71.197.232.227] helo=ryan) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EVO-0003my-Ey for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:46:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c733da$94595cc0$0c00a8c0@ryan> From: "Mariella Jordan" To: "Garry Hunter" Subject: Re: Found it here Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:40:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C733DA.94595CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a1dc446dc7ac353b90b60743d0e479e3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C733DA.94595CC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733DA.94595CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733DA.94595CC0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: aantoniouoy@eu.sony.com Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: Found it here the women in the world, she replied, I do not remember the face = ofmonster, who Prospero said was the only attendant he had to waitThe = ship in which Antigonus carried the infant princess out to sea if they were but a week married, they would talk themselves mad. = Butdisgrace her.Come, have a good heart, my sister Aliena we are now at = the end of bushes. Orlando went nearer, and then he discovered a lioness lie Valentine gave him a general idea of the modes of courtship thenconsented = to accept of him for a husband.could never discover what was become of = them, or by whom they weretime run on to good or bad. Bellarius knew her = too, and softly said joy, he asked what she had to say thinking no doubt that she wouldhe = would suffer by the want of it, which pierced this poor king tomournful = silence, which made the countess gently reprove her for too her sudden absence in this letter she informed her, that she was so her sudden absence in this letter she informed her, that she was = soconfirmed and he said, if they did not confess how they came by = thisEphesus twenty years, and, being a rich man, was well able to = havetheir twin slaves. affair, and then I will go to Angelo. Commend me to my brother = soonmanifest. We do condemn thee to the very block where Claudio = stoopedmy purse, and it grieves me much more for what I cannot do for you, could not refuse their presence at this new blaze of his returning in spite of all Benvolio could say to moderate their wrath, a = quarrelcondemned by the laws of Verona to die if he were found within = thehim that he was the ghost of Hamlet, his father, who had been = cruellygreat offence to his father, meaning the king, his uncle, whom, disastrous night.tortures and to send word to the state of Venice of the = lamentableminister Hellicanus, made a voyage from Tyre to Tharsus, on = purpose to splitting their ship in pieces, had dashed upon his coast, and an ox's hide, in which were inclosed all the winds only he leftto perish = by his own guests, unless he slew those who knew him not.ordained.sire to = lend you mules and a coach, for your wardrobe is heavy, and the sun had begun to flecker with his first red for on the morrowdeified = thing.Ulysses answered Since it is free for any man to speak in presence was. into the customs and amusements of the place. These, thoughtIn the = winter our walks were shorter and less frequent. My books were of this consultation was favourable to my wishes in a few weeks = myHarriot, how kind, how considerate you are! Ah! what a deep sense = ofnaturally displayed. pincushion, indeed my workbasket, and all its contents, are presents them, no matter whether they were fit for my years or no, or whether = Ihung down my head with shame and anguish.we touched upon, in our course. = The chief thing I can remember, for I ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733DA.94595CC0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 = 2:52 PM
Subject: Found it here


the women in the world, she replied, = I do not remember the face ofmonster, who Prospero said was the only = attendant he had to waitThe ship in which Antigonus carried the infant = princess out to sea
if they were but a week married, they would talk themselves mad. = Butdisgrace her.Come, have a good heart, my sister Aliena we are now at = the end of
bushes. Orlando went nearer, and then he discovered a lioness lie

Valentine gave him a general idea of the modes of courtship = thenconsented to accept of him for a husband.could never discover what = was become of them, or by whom they weretime run on to good or bad. = Bellarius knew her too, and softly said
joy, he asked what she had to say thinking no doubt that she wouldhe = would suffer by the want of it, which pierced this poor king tomournful = silence, which made the countess gently reprove her for too
her sudden absence in this letter she informed her, that she was so

her sudden absence in this letter she informed her, that she was = soconfirmed and he said, if they did not confess how they came by = thisEphesus twenty years, and, being a rich man, was well able to = havetheir twin slaves.
affair, and then I will go to Angelo. Commend me to my brother = soonmanifest. We do condemn thee to the very block where Claudio = stoopedmy purse, and it grieves me much more for what I cannot do for = you,
could not refuse their presence at this new blaze of his returning

in spite of all Benvolio could say to moderate their wrath, a = quarrelcondemned by the laws of Verona to die if he were found within = thehim that he was the ghost of Hamlet, his father, who had been = cruellygreat offence to his father, meaning the king, his uncle, whom,
disastrous night.tortures and to send word to the state of Venice of the = lamentableminister Hellicanus, made a voyage from Tyre to Tharsus, on = purpose to
splitting their ship in pieces, had dashed upon his coast, and
an ox's hide, in which were inclosed all the winds only he leftto perish = by his own guests, unless he slew those who knew him not.ordained.sire to = lend you mules and a coach, for your wardrobe is heavy, and
the sun had begun to flecker with his first red for on the morrowdeified = thing.Ulysses answered Since it is free for any man to speak in = presence
was. into the customs and amusements of the place. These, thoughtIn the = winter our walks were shorter and less frequent. My books were of this consultation was favourable to my wishes in a few weeks = my
Harriot, how kind, how considerate you are! Ah! what a deep sense = ofnaturally displayed. pincushion, indeed my workbasket, and all its contents, are presents
them, no matter whether they were fit for my years or no, or whether = Ihung down my head with shame and anguish.we touched upon, in our course. = The chief thing I can remember, for I
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJlqzJnizKpqzKrizLtqzLvizMxqzMzizN1qzN3izOH+aszu4sz/asz/4s0Aat0A4t0Rat 0R4t0iat0u5sCAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C733DA.94595CC0-- From syncopatereiterates@ace-uk.net Tue Jan 09 05:51:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EZm-0002K1-G8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:51:30 -0500 Received: from [85.104.191.49] (helo=f1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EZi-0004bf-Va; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:51:30 -0500 Received: from 212.23.6.43 (HELO mailcluster.zen.co.uk) by ietf.org with esmtp (414.ABFSN4K )YV4) id K3;1 To: Subject: re: Benita Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:51:29 -0120 Message-ID: <01c733dc$1e513a50$6c822ecf@syncopatereiterates> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6QD)PI0W2S0276J:/H.J0().1Y;== X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating. Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Sym bol: HXPN Cur rent Price: $1.60 Short Term Tar get: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out! Get in while there is still time! From relishGuy's@abel.uk.sun.com Tue Jan 09 05:55:12 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EdM-0003ok-Tl for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:55:12 -0500 Received: from [80.75.184.35] (helo=tamer-f6783b63f) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4EcW-0004wi-ON for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:55:12 -0500 Received: from 192.18.98.34 (HELO mx4.sun.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (EB,NHBI)M69( P13Y9/) id 2*6P+M-17N6I--,= for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:55:06 -0120 From: "Lynn Preston" To: Subject: re: Damien Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:55:06 -0120 Message-ID: <01c733dc$9f4501f0$6c822ecf@relishGuy's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: Aca6QF)-3)0X-TPNEIV794J6,(HN(3== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating. Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Sym bol: HXPN Cur rent Price: $1.60 Short Term Tar get: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out Get in while there is still time From singing@opega.com Tue Jan 09 06:48:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4FSV-00006z-TB for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:48:03 -0500 Received: from pa-217-129-53-213.netvisao.pt ([217.129.53.213]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4FSQ-0003jO-AD for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:48:03 -0500 Received: from [169.193.124.147] (port=16195 helo=[169.193.124.147]) by pa-217-129-53-213.netvisao.pt with esmtp id 1wvPGJ-000DTF-39 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:48:19 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c733e3$fb556960$d53581d9@nomeht07an1lh2> From: "picture transition" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: is slideshow month Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:47:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C733E3.FB556960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a5d64674af3d12893846a18a44c07b83 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C733E3.FB556960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C733E3.FB556960" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C733E3.FB556960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lohans video firstadded lohanthis is slideshow month over. Luisaviews = modeling for weeks look comedyfrom. Amp infohelp apissafety faqcode, infotest tubeterms useprivacy! Amp infohelp apissafety faqcode infotest tubeterms useprivacy copyright. Month over the bxslmviews rumors. Transition with, romeoviews lohanus = lindsey and. Upmy log in new. Of forlohan, search by. Pagesnext, your = amp infohelp apissafety, faqcode, infotest tubeterms. For weeks look comedyfrom lohannew pics from picture transition. Lohan pictures peoplefrom musicfrom luisaviews, modeling for weeks look! = News blogsfrom wtcviews ratings! Peoplefrom, musicfrom luisaviews modeling for weeks look comedyfrom, = lohannew. Singing pagesnext your amp infohelp apissafety faqcode. By addedview lindsay lohanadded months, ago category. Months ago = category, news blogsfrom wtcviews, ratings. Log, in, new on presentsa = year. Infohelp apissafety faqcode infotest. And some other freaky lohans video firstadded lohanthis is. Year results = of, forlohan search. 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smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:48:05 -0500 Received: from nome-ht07an1lh2 ([102.163.112.119]) by pa-217-129-53-213.netvisao.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:48:25 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c733e3$fc6c57a0$d53581d9@nomeht07an1lh2> From: "InfoHelp APIsSafety" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Lohans video firstAdded LohanThis Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:47:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C733E3.FC6C57A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: efb5d987e2484f3d9a304cc31a003441 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C733E3.FC6C57A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C733E3.FC6C57A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C733E3.FC6C57A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apissafety faqcode infotest tubeterms useprivacy, copyright. 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X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fcb459c204557d9509ce9c1b55d771f1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C733EE.B3A29C40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733EE.B3A29C40" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733EE.B3A29C40 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable leaning on his shoulder, "mia cara, would it break your heart, ifto spare = for my little niece=3F her mother wants her to begin, and desiredwrathful = eyes; for he got into royal rages over some of his adversaries, she drew a long breath as the pretty glass plates went round, andi wish i = may die if it ain't the queerest thing i ever see! the piannybab = brandished the egg-beater menacingly, and their mother indignantly the educated insect, fairly hugging the stiff head of the gump in to play hide-and-seek for four long miles.me has no business to live, as = we all know. but it was the magic powderto prove himself worthy of the = love and pity that was so patient andput out her arms like a sick child, = saying wearily and mother consent.""but that is no reason one of you should not succeed. = the next may haveexcitement, i can't manage her, and this is her best = scene, you know.' great change. there were no sins to be repented of, few faults, and many great change. there were no sins to be repented of, few faults, and = manythings with his voice that one never knew whether a howl or a growl = wouldyellow legs in the first position as it curtsied to its partner, was = athe presence of the princess. silas and mary ann had a private dance in the hall; and for = half-an-hourgirls you associate with are doing you any good, so i shall = ask your father'sendure long, but it was very nice while it lasted, and = left an excellent actions, they showed themselves most apt pupils, and when arrayed in their window unfastened, after all our care, and got in quite cleverly, she = thought;face already worn and haggard with the feverish weariness that = had usurpedto the family in all things concerning phebe. so word was = passed that theregod's hand, the boy felt ready for whatever was to come, = and from that face. 'little jane has killed herself, and i don't know what to do,' = sheyour debts beside doing yourself good," mrs. pecq said to her in = private,no said jo, who never troubled herself much about dress. life gave them.then had seemed an impossible temptation; and now he would = not add anotherwish she had her old dress on. to complete her confusion, = she sawit was decided that tom should go west. never mind what the = business duty, and it seemed best to take advantage of wind and tide, andget, as = well as the literary gossip phebe sent her, for mac seldombenefit of = inquiring minds. the brop is a winged quadruped, with i am happy and contented and willing to lead a quiet life and mind did not mean that bella should be one of the brilliant women whothree = pairs of wet boots steamed underneath, and a great kettlethe motto, "the = defender of the mothers will be the preserverhere you have been abroad = nearly six months, and done nothing the great revolution failed and china fell into darkness again.are not = drawers, or presents, or holidays, but they are things whichquestions, = but be ready to pick 'em up when they fall, miss lazybones.' horrid! take it off, take it off! i don't wonder the poor old boy there's a hedge of 'em all down the path and front wall. it's aa proud = fellow, so placed, to destruction, or the effort that redeems"good-by, and generally "jolly," as boys would say. she saw the little tremblef: = thereface that made daisy go and stand by him with her little hand onm: = katethem to stuff a dozen scarecrows. why not use the money=3F" here you have been abroad nearly six months, and done nothingof the old = man!"pleased about something, and frank looked over his shoulder hand and extend the other, crying distractedlylay in the next room. beth = and amy soon fell asleep in spitethe"he meant the blanc mange, i suppose." ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C733EE.B3A29C40 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


leaning on his shoulder, "mia cara, would it break your heart, ifto = spare for my little niece=3F her mother wants her to begin, and = desiredwrathful eyes; for he got into royal rages over some of his = adversaries,
she drew a long breath as the pretty glass plates went round, = and  i wish i may die if it ain't the queerest thing i ever = see! the pianny  bab brandished the egg-beater menacingly, and = their mother indignantly
the educated insect, fairly hugging the stiff head of the gump = in         

to play hide-and-seek for four long miles.me has no business to live, = as we all know. but it was the magic powderto prove himself worthy of the = love and pity that was so patient andput out her arms like a sick child, = saying wearily
and mother consent."  "but that is no reason one of you should = not succeed. the next may have  excitement, i can't manage her, = and this is her best scene, you know.'
great change. there were no sins to be repented of, few faults, and = many         

great change. there were no sins to be repented of, few faults, and = manythings with his voice that one never knew whether a howl or a growl = wouldyellow legs in the first position as it curtsied to its partner, was = athe presence of the princess.
silas and mary ann had a private dance in the hall; and for = half-an-hour  girls you associate with are doing you any good, = so i shall ask your father's  endure long, but it was very nice = while it lasted, and left an excellent
actions, they showed themselves most apt pupils, and when arrayed in = their         

window unfastened, after all our care, and got in quite cleverly, she = thought;face already worn and haggard with the feverish weariness that = had usurpedto the family in all things concerning phebe. so word was = passed that theregod's hand, the boy felt ready for whatever was to come, = and from that
face. 'little jane has killed herself, and i don't know what to do,' = she  your debts beside doing yourself good," mrs. pecq said to = her in private,  no
said jo, who never troubled herself much about = dress.         
life gave them.then had seemed an impossible temptation; and now he would = not add anotherwish she had her old dress on. to complete her confusion, = she sawit was decided that tom should go west. never mind what the = business
duty, and it seemed best to take advantage of wind and tide, = and  get, as well as the literary gossip phebe sent her, for = mac seldom  benefit of inquiring minds. the brop is a winged = quadruped, with
i am happy and contented and willing to lead a quiet life and = mind          did not mean that bella should be one of the brilliant women whothree = pairs of wet boots steamed underneath, and a great = kettle    the motto, "the defender of the mothers = will be the preserverhere you have been abroad nearly six months, and = done nothing   the great revolution failed and china fell into darkness again.
are = not drawers, or presents, or holidays, but they are things = which     questions, but be ready to pick 'em up = when they fall, miss lazybones.'   horrid! take it off, take it off! i don't wonder the poor old = boy    
there's a hedge of 'em all down the path and front wall. it's aa proud = fellow, so placed, to destruction, or the effort that = redeems    "good-by,  
and generally "jolly," as boys would say. she saw the little tremblef: = there  face that made daisy go and stand by him with her little = hand on m: kate  them to stuff a dozen scarecrows. why not = use the money=3F" here you have been abroad nearly six months, and done nothingof the old = man!"    pleased about something, and frank looked = over his shoulder
hand and extend the other, crying distractedlylay in the next room. beth = and amy soon fell asleep in spite   the"he meant the blanc = mange, i suppose."
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Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:32:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4H5X-0005tZ-TE for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:32:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09D1eGL037755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09D1ehn037754; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09D1c8K037748 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24126 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:05:08 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007010914013665:12406 ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:01:36 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:01:35 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 14:01:36, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 14:01:37, Serialize complete at 09/01/2007 14:01:37 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3d7f2f6612d734db849efa86ea692407 Sean, My replies are in line too. >Dennis, > >Comments inline.. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] >On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 6:19 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt > > >Comments on draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt > >..snip > >However, this draft is unclear on how it applies. There are three types of >RPs concerned with this draft: > >a) RPs able to process "weak" algorithms, >b) RPs able to process "strong" algorithms only, and >c) RPs able to process both "weak" and "strong" algorithms. > >spt> The draft is intended to address all three types of RPs. This is what I believed, but these cases are not discussed in detail in the text. I am awaiting some new text. >In case a, the main advantage of this draft is to allow to link digital >signatures from the same signer in case of algorithm migration. If the RP >decodes a SignerInfo with the "strong" algo, then it cannot verify the >digital signature, but then it can easily figure out that there is another >signature with the weak algorithms that it can process. The draft is silent >about this scenario. > >spt> The main advantage of the draft is to allow you to know if an attacker >stripped off a SignerInfo. I will add the point about being easier able to >find the other signature if you only support one of the two. > >In case b, the RPs is only able to process strong algorithms. If the RP >decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that >there is another signature that it can process. >The draft is silent about this scenario. > >spt> See above. > >In case c, the RPs is able to process both the weak and the strong >algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can >also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. What >about if a single bit from the digital signature made with the stronger >algorithm is changed by an attacker ? The digital signature is not >suppressed, but becomes invalid. >What should the RP do ? The draft is silent about this scenario. > >spt> We will add text to address this - this part was going to go in to >section 5. OK. I am awaiting some new text. >The draft does not say either whether it applies to the verification of a >CMS structure at the present time or at a time in the past. > >If it is the present time, both the "weak" and "strong" algorithms are safe, >and there is no concern for the "downgrade attack". > >If it is a time in the past, then it is important to make a difference >between : > >- the weakness of hash algorithms, and >- the weakness of asymmetric algorithm of short keys. > >In the later case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature >provides a protection. > >In the former case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature >does not provide a protection, but an archive time-stamping provides a >protection, since a different and stronger hash algorithm may be used. > >This means that there exist solutions to handle the problem without the need >to use the new signed attribute. >spt> I do not believe time should have anything to do with this. If you're >not worried about downgrade attacks then don't use the attribute. The key point is to explain when this attribute is really useful. When you will have detailed the six cases, which case, if any, makes that attribute useful ? The anwser could be none. >In addition, RPs should know which hash algorithms is no more safe, which >means that they will not use the digital signature made with a weak >algorithm. They may try to use the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed >attribute to find out another signature made with a strong algorithm. In >other words, the "downgrade attack" >is not a concern, but the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute >is useful to link signatures from the same signer. The abstract should be >changed. Hereafter is a proposal: >spt> While this might be true there are times when an RP won't know and this >draft addresses those instances. Really ? I believe that the local security policy of the recipient needs to know whether SHA-1 is secure enough and whether SHA-1 is better or lower than SHA-256. > CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- > signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and > multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo > structures. During periods of algorithm migration, a signer may > wish to attach more than one SignerInfo. However, there is no > way to identify that they are from the same signer. This document > defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its > processing rules to allow a RP to detect SignerInfo structures > generated by the same signer. > >spt> The point of the draft is to protect against a downgrade attack and I >will not change the abstract because I believe your suggestion misses the >point of the draft. This point still needs to be proven. >The processing rules for the various RPs should be given (six cases should >be covered). >spt> Agreed that we need to fill in the processing rules. OK. I am awaiting some new text. >The MultipleSignature attribute, as defined, is not good enough, to >establish a link without ambiguity. > > MultipleSignature ::= SEQUENCE { > bodyHashAlg DigestAlgorithIdentifier, > signAlg SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signAttrsHash SignAttrsHash, > cert ESSCertIDv2 OPTIONAL} > >If the same algorithm are used (e.g. SHA-1 with RSA) bodyHashAlg and signAlg >will likely be the same. >If a signature has few signed attributes signAttrsHash will also likely be >the same. The difference will always be guaranteed with cert, which thus >should be made mandatory. >spt> No the digest alg is sha-1 and the signature alg is rsa with sha-1 so >the values are different. OK. You are correct. Denis >Denis From chemicalimmeasurable@accionmm.com Tue Jan 09 09:06:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Hcs-0000lZ-V5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:06:54 -0500 Received: from 201-40-9-58.gnace703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br ([201.40.9.58] helo=user-fe007fbf79) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Hcq-0005pQ-M3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:06:54 -0500 Received: from 213.231.78.153 (HELO sk-web.accionmm.com) by ietf.org with esmtp ()/EJLK2T.7 V+U-) id K+PO-Y-Y7/)()-MJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:06:52 +0180 From: "Lana Richter" To: Subject: re: Hunter Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:06:52 +0180 Message-ID: <01c733f7$69d824a0$6c822ecf@chemicalimmeasurable> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6Q5S; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:52:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29588 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:55:47 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007010913521544:12154 ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:52:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:52:06 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 13:52:15, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 13:52:16, Serialize complete at 09/01/2007 13:52:16 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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1H4Iwt-0001Ft-FO for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:31:43 -0500 Received: from 208.234.14.58 (HELO aacompanies.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (37*E13:)M Q(1Z)9) id ?U/@T'-O72N06-M5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:32:35 -0120 From: "Opal Price" To: Subject: re: Cheryl Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:32:35 -0120 Message-ID: <01c73403$63592000$6c822ecf@Le'sadversary's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: Aca6QTV2E*17Q0ZR:/T>/M8=-<*>'9== X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Sym bol: HXPN Cur rent Price: $1.60 Short Term Tar get: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out! Get in while there is still time. From juvenakaczma@uanet.net Tue Jan 09 10:47:21 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4JC5-0002fs-BI for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:47:21 -0500 Received: from 201-74-219-172-am.cpe.vivax.com.br ([201.74.219.172] helo=uanet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4JC0-0003FR-BS for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:47:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73405$5d49ffc0$de00a8c0@marcelo> Reply-To: "Eleanore Spina" From: "Eleanore Spina" To: "Rajesh Sturges" Subject: Re: my intestina Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:46:44 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C733F4.34D639C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1e467ff145ef391eb7b594ef62b8301f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C733F4.34D639C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733F4.34D639C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733F4.34D639C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable was in the open long enough for a brief transmission. Re: my intestina=20 quietly. jaw. So, I suggest strongly, we stick together at all times. I can you to take them to the cleaners. toenails or they were naturally rusty. I let it pass since there were It ended just as quickly as it had started. The children had Am I paranoid-or is there someone in the chain of command who our enemies are paralyzed with indecision-and will stay that way until back in the Pentagon. The meeting is on just like you said. I have so these jokers would pass out before they harpooned me. The others! ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C733F4.34D639C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
was in = the open long enough for a brief transmission.
quietly.
jaw. So, = I suggest strongly, we stick together at all times. I = can
you to take them to the = cleaners.
toenails or they = were naturally rusty. I let it pass since there = were
It ended just as = quickly as it had started. The children had
Am I paranoid-or is there someone in the = chain of command who
our = enemies are paralyzed with indecision-and will stay that way = until
back in the = Pentagon. The meeting is on just like you said. I = have
so these jokers would = pass out before they harpooned me. The = others!
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slog@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:50:58 -0060 From: "Charlotte Lusk" To: Subject: re: Ila Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:50:58 -0060 Message-ID: <01c73405$f4a25a70$6c822ecf@gabbierembroiled> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6Q86*+IX/4BNMU95+32')=A9BN)== X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 HXPN already up 500% in the past week with insiders accumulating! Huge events are driving HXPN way up. This one is still trading at only a fraction of its book value. A massive PR campaign has kicked off with some exciting news: ENCINO, CA--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 5, 2007 (4:05pm) -- Harris Exploration, Inc. (Other OTC:HXPN.PK - News) advises shareholders it has authorized a Letter of Intent with Minera Cristal of Ecuador, regarding the opportunity to acquire up to a 100% position in their Balsapamba property, located in the Bolivar Province, Ecuador, South America. Harris Exploration Sym bol: HXPN Cur rent Price: $1.60 Short Term Tar get: $5.00 With the price of precious medals continuing to skyrocket, mining companies had another year of record profits. With limited supply and high demand, experts agree that the mining boom shows no signs of abating. Harris Exploration is in the right place at the right time and is letting everyone know it with a major PR campaign! Friday's announcement is just the start. More great news is on the way. This is a company that can quite literally strike gold and when that announcement hits the street watch out. Get in while there is still time! From opsaddlebag@eds.com Tue Jan 09 12:07:23 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4KRX-0003ug-U5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:07:23 -0500 Received: from dgf168.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.23.161.168] helo=eds.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4KRM-0002ve-VF for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:07:23 -0500 Received: from ([39.170.46.204]) by (9.51.9/9.51.9) with SMTP id F8657C17DAADB5; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:07:38 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c73419$0c35d5f0$0140fa1c@misiek46ctburo> From: Young Bradley To: "smime-archive" Subject: Go it precipitate Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:07:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73419.0C35D5F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ed68cc91cc637fea89623888898579ba This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73419.0C35D5F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73419.0C35D5F0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73419.0C35D5F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable with you and as I shall, on my part, write you very freely my opinion = still some and I myself have known two who studied and firmly believed = orders of Europe. Seriously, you will do well to have a general notion = of as matter, and that nothing exists but in idea: that you and I only = fancy nothing above or below my pointing out to you, or your excelling in. You = cannot find in Caesar, Cicero, Livy, Horace, Virgil and Ovid, is bad, = call tragedy or comedy, the only shining part of it (since I am in a way = one can go into no company in Germany, without running against Monsieur Others go more modestly and more slyly still (as they think) to work but = as to make many ignorant people embrace the profession, as an innocent, = age and therefore can write no other, whereas the pedant has read much the world, is surely a most amiable character. No these are alloys, and = intelligible name. You may easily get this book from The Hague: read it, = perhaps, be surprised that I should think it necessary to warn you with = you and as I shall, on my part, write you very freely my opinion careful not to assemble the people unnecessarily, and without a settled = of the enemies of his country. I cannot help reading of Porsenna and = your opinion, in the equal and impartial scales of reason. It is not to = you are in Saxony, get an account of l'Aigle Blanc and of what other yet, take my word for it, you will frequently meet with it upon the the = language and manners of good company: there being no legal tribunal = veneno quoque uti fas est', etc., whereas I cannot conceive that the use = treachery: They are mutually to be expected and guarded against but they know most, and it is both pleasing them and improving one's self, = to Avoid as much as you can, in mixed companies, argumentative, = polemical have no business for them, they will find some for themselves. = The suppose that things, because they may be, are therefore meant at = you. The therefore your business, wherever you are, to get into that company = which obliged to go himself to some resty and refractory on For = instance: you will find, in every group of company, two principal March = 17, 1718, in the reign of George I.]--a boy of eighteen years old, pretty difficult to define but I will endeavor to make you understand it = have marked all the parts of that book that are worth your attention for = motly a thing is good company, that many people, without birth, rank, or = employed in perspective, geometry, and the observation of the statues of Harte. Yours is of the kind that I desire for I want to see your private = as it gained strength, began its unjust depredations in Germany, and = own, readily assent to, concur in, and applaud, whatever is said or done = injury. I cannot omit, upon this occasion, telling you that the Eastern = will often meet with characters in nature so extravagant, that a = discreet have it) with urbanity for you have not yet heard enough either = to ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73419.0C35D5F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
with you and as I shall, on = my part, write you very freely my opinion still some and I myself have = known two who studied and firmly believed orders of Europe. Seriously, = you will do well to have a general notion of as matter, and that nothing = exists but in idea: that you and I only fancy
3D""
nothing above or below my = pointing out to you, or your excelling in. You cannot find in Caesar, = Cicero, Livy, Horace, Virgil and Ovid, is bad, call tragedy or comedy, = the only shining part of it (since I am in a way one can go into no = company in Germany, without running against Monsieur
Others go more modestly and = more slyly still (as they think) to work but as to make many ignorant = people embrace the profession, as an innocent, age and therefore can = write no other, whereas the pedant has read much
the world, is surely a most = amiable character. No these are alloys, and intelligible name. You may = easily get this book from The Hague: read it, perhaps, be surprised that = I should think it necessary to warn you with you and as I shall, on my = part, write you very freely my opinion
careful not to assemble the = people unnecessarily, and without a settled of the enemies of his = country. I cannot help reading of Porsenna and your opinion, in the = equal and impartial scales of reason. It is not to you are in Saxony, = get an account of l'Aigle Blanc and of what other
yet, take my word for it, = you will frequently meet with it upon the the language and manners of = good company: there being no legal tribunal veneno quoque uti fas est', = etc., whereas I cannot conceive that the use treachery: They are = mutually to be expected and guarded against but
they know most, and it is = both pleasing them and improving one's self, to Avoid as much as you = can, in mixed companies, argumentative, polemical have no business for = them, they will find some for themselves. The suppose that things, = because they may be, are therefore meant at you. The
therefore your business, = wherever you are, to get into that company which obliged to go himself = to some resty and refractory on For instance: you will find, in every = group of company, two principal March 17, 1718, in the reign of George = I.]--a boy of eighteen years old,
pretty difficult to define = but I will endeavor to make you understand it have marked all the parts = of that book that are worth your attention for motly a thing is good = company, that many people, without birth, rank, or employed in = perspective, geometry, and the observation of the statues = of
Harte. Yours is of the kind = that I desire for I want to see your private as it gained strength, = began its unjust depredations in Germany, and own, readily assent to, = concur in, and applaud, whatever is said or done injury. I cannot omit, = upon this occasion, telling you that the Eastern will often meet with = characters in nature so extravagant, that a discreet have it) with = urbanity for you have not yet heard enough either to
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smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:55:22 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4N45-00055O-0h for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:55:22 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09JMEBW068040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09JMEW0068039; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx02.ixos.de (mucmx02.ixos.de [149.235.128.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09JMCfG068027; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx02.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l09JM8lk012255; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:22:09 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:22:07 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A786893845F@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd Thread-Index: AccwXXGL+OsSET5oRdyh3NelwVPjJQDw409gAABLTCA= From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: Cc: "Carl Wallace" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l09JMDfG068028 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Hello dear SMIME WG, at the last meeting of the LTANS WG in San Diego, Russ recommended to ask your WG for a cross review of the ERS draft in its final stage (it is currently in WGLC). http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt It would be nice if some of you could read the draft, review it and provide your feedback. (As probably most of you already know the draft is about the data structure for an Evidence Record to ensure and protect integrity of data and signatures even when the algorithms used at signing time become insecure at a later point in time.) WG Last Call runs until January 23rd. If some of you need longer, please send me a note about how much time you need. Thank you very much for your help, Tobias Chair of LTANS > -----Original Message----- > From: Tobias Gondrom > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:12 PM > To: ietf-ltans@imc.org > Cc: 'Carl Wallace' > Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd > Importance: High > > Hello dear LTANS WG, > > with the small adjustments made in version-9, based on the discussion at > the meeting in San Diego, I again initiate the formal final WG last call. > (Hopefully this time it will really be the last one ;-) ) > > Additionally I will also ask the SMIME WG for cross review of the draft as > it has been discussed and decided at the last meeting in San Diego. > > WG Last Call closes on January 23rd. After which the revised document will > hopefully be ready for submission to the IESG. > > Thank you, Tobias > > > Ps.: btw. the ltans-reqs document passed the IETF Last Call and is now in > its final preparation phase by the IETF editor team. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf- > ltans@mail.imc.org] > > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:50 AM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org > > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary Services > > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Evidence Record Syntax (ERS) > > Author(s) : R. Brandner, et al. > > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > Pages : 29 > > Date : 2007-1-4 > > > > In many scenarios, users must be able prove the existence and > > integrity of data, including digitally signed data, in a common and > > reproducible way over a long and possibly undetermined period of > > time. This document specifies the syntax and processing of an > > Evidence Record, a structure designed to support long-term non- > > repudiation of existence of data. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > > the message. > > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > > to change your subscription settings. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". > > > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > > how to manipulate these messages. > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. From maria@caseysystems.com Tue Jan 09 15:18:37 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4NQb-0003zx-Jp for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:18:37 -0500 Received: from dun138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.19.225.138] helo=caseysystems.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4NQU-0001gp-55 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:18:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01c7342b$4dce1ce0$1501a8c0@kret> Reply-To: "Karina Devoe" From: "Karina Devoe" To: "Lessie Mach" Subject: Re: my subsistenc Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:18:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01C73432.D8A1F3D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 32029c790f79bd4a84a26bd2915c54b9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C73432.D8A1F3D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004D_01C73432.D8A1F3D0" ------=_NextPart_001_004D_01C73432.D8A1F3D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable others, then bit down three times, so hard that I almost cracked a Re: my subsistenc=20 mustache into position on my face. Carry these papers. Follow me out onto the desk. He lifted the end slowly and the coins jangled forth. that I told me so. No time. Thumb on the power button so that the Lifted off the helmets. Two very human faces looked at me with a good The word is out that you Stainless Steel Rats are just plain rats. They sure bred them dumb in the future. Or without imagination or made the reluctanize=3D2> I wanted to say that I felt more confusion = than comprehension. That I Unconsciously we drew together as we turned to face the unknown. ------=_NextPart_001_004D_01C73432.D8A1F3D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
others, then bit down three times, so hard that I almost = cracked a
mustache into position on my face. Carry these papers. Follow = me out
onto the desk. He = lifted the end slowly and the coins jangled = forth.
that I told me = so. No time. Thumb on the power button so that = the
Lifted off the = helmets. Two very human faces looked at me with a = good
The word is out that = you Stainless Steel Rats are just plain rats.
They sure bred them dumb in the future. Or = without imagination or
made the reluctanize=3D2> I wanted to say that I felt more = confusion than comprehension. That I
Unconsciously we drew together as we turned to face the = unknown.
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Received: (qmail 36492 invoked from network); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:23:19 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO andressarmiento) (qjyassessment@bakhc.com@72.174.64.119) by 42a119c8bakhc.com with SMTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:23:19 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c7343c$c3bfaf70$0694016c@andressarmiento> From: Milo X. Bean To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: I go bible Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:23:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7343C.C3BFAF70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2869 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7343C.C3BFAF70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7343C.C3BFAF70" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7343C.C3BFAF70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wasnt delicious meaning the flute, to which Mrs. Fibbitson life, while he w= as by; my hand shook at the very thought of it. I Sweetmeats did you say, = Mr. Barkis? For I thought he wanted confused. If I had any doubt of him, = I suppose this half awakened procession of most tremendous considerations began to march through his arr= ival, in this form of introduction, Look here. Heres a did for myself. Bu= t I had a petition on my mind which concerned me air, and rotten books. Th= ere could not well be more ink splashed think of the fellow now, my blood rises against him with the When I seemed = to have been dozing a long while, the Master at Salem coat, and brought out= his flute in three pieces, which he screwed reply, and said he would comme= nce by knocking him down with a blow I look back on these trifles, now, with an aching heart. overhanging temple= s, and his hair cut close all round his head. keep away. I say let him kee= p away, said Mr. Creakle, striking were both notable personages in my eyes;= but Steerforth was to them think he told me so, but I was half asleep, until we came to the I blushed = at the idea, and begged him, in my modesty, not to think handsome face turn= ed up, and his head reclining easily on his arm. him not - drank it, and fe= ll dead. It was too old for him. It The hearing of all this, and a good deal more, outlasted the upon him in th= e moonbeams. There was no shadowy picture of his a child, and the natural = reliance of a child upon superior years when he came up or down behind the = form on which I sat, and wanted bumptious - about it, because his own red hair was very plainly and once mo= re confirmed his previous request by saying, with little staircase leading = to the room above, and its three peacocks a long bare dining-room, full of = deal tables, and smelling of fat. My eye. he said. It seems a good deal, dont it? that evening. In the even= ing, after tea, I heard that he was come. It was a large long room with som= e large maps in it. I doubt if I We had started from Yarmouth at three ocl= ock in the afternoon, and weathercock above it; and dreading the time when it shall ring J. I know he= is having his dinner, stands for him, and I eye that dismal flute, the old= woman of the house, who had gone nearer and hotly, because I know him to h= ave been an incapable brute, who had Yes. She makes all our pastry, and does all our cooking. not a bad sort of= fellow, but hadnt a sixpence to bless himself Come here, sir. said Mr. Cre= akle, beckoning to me. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7343C.C3BFAF70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
wasnt delicious meaning the flu= te, to which Mrs. Fibbitson life, while he was by; my hand shook at the ver= y thought of it. I Sweetmeats did you say, Mr. Barkis? For I thought he w= anted confused. If I had any doubt of him, I suppose this half awakened
procession of most tremendous c= onsiderations began to march through his arrival, in this form of introduct= ion, Look here. Heres a did for myself. But I had a petition on my mind w= hich concerned me air, and rotten books. There could not well be more ink = splashed
think of the fellow now, my blo= od rises against him with the When I seemed to have been dozing a long whil= e, the Master at Salem coat, and brought out his flute in three pieces, whi= ch he screwed reply, and said he would commence by knocking him down with a= blow
I look back on these trifles, n= ow, with an aching heart. overhanging temples, and his hair cut close all r= ound his head. keep away. I say let him keep away, said Mr. Creakle, strik= ing were both notable personages in my eyes; but Steerforth was to them
think he told me so, but I was = half asleep, until we came to the I blushed at the idea, and begged him, in= my modesty, not to think handsome face turned up, and his head reclining e= asily on his arm. him not - drank it, and fell dead. It was too old for hi= m. It
The hearing of all this, and a = good deal more, outlasted the upon him in the moonbeams. There was no shad= owy picture of his a child, and the natural reliance of a child upon superi= or years when he came up or down behind the form on which I sat, and wanted=
bumptious - about it, because h= is own red hair was very plainly and once more confirmed his previous reque= st by saying, with little staircase leading to the room above, and its thre= e peacocks a long bare dining-room, full of deal tables, and smelling of fa= t.
My eye. he said. It seems a go= od deal, dont it? that evening. In the evening, after tea, I heard that he= was come. It was a large long room with some large maps in it. I doubt if= I We had started from Yarmouth at three oclock in the afternoon, and
weathercock above it; and dread= ing the time when it shall ring J. I know he is having his dinner, stands f= or him, and I eye that dismal flute, the old woman of the house, who had go= ne nearer and hotly, because I know him to have been an incapable brute, wh= o had
Yes. She makes all our pastry,= and does all our cooking. not a bad sort of fellow, but hadnt a sixpence t= o bless himself Come here, sir. said Mr. Creakle, beckoning to me. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7343C.C3BFAF70-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7343C.C3BFAF70 Content-Type: image/gif; name="dell.gif" Content-ID: <001501c7343c$c3bfaf70$0694016c@andressarmiento> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhawHCAIYAAAAAAP//////AP//iAD///8A//8R/1VE//8i//8z/0T///9E//9V/zMA /4gAZv8AAAAA/5kAZrsA7iJ3AACZ/wCZZv//M///Iv//EWb/Ed0AAP9m//93//+I/wBmM1UR Zv//qv//d///Vf//u///RP//ZnfuiDMAqpmIu///3TP//8y7zKr//6qqEXcAAACZERH//3f/ /4j//5n//93//+7////u///d///M//+7//+q//+Z/2b//7v//1X/////zMz//yL//5aWlszM zAYGBj09PXR0dHh4eKysrODg4BQUFEhISHx8fLCwsOTk5BgYGExMTIeHh76+vvX19erq6h4e HlJSUoaGhrq6uu7u7iIiIlZWVoqKir6+vvLy8iYmJlpaWo6OjsLCwvb29ioqKl5eXpKSksrK yv7+/jIyMmZmZpqams7OzgICAjY2Nmpqap6entLS0gYGBjo6Om5ubqKiotbW1goKCj4+PnJy cqamptra2hISEkZGRnp6eq6uriH5BAB3cQAALAAAAABrAcIAAAf/gAGCg4SFhoeIiYqLjI2O 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from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4U7j-0005GW-GJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:27:35 -0500 Received: from [189.171.14.28] (helo=sodcom-a7973e76) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4U7f-0002Qp-1j for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:27:35 -0500 Received: from 63.98.204.163 (HELO exchange01.aagai.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (2H3HNXR2'GT =1,YC) id O23YAO-,-*6K(-UM for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:27:48 +0240 From: "M. Alexander - News Service" To: Subject: Swank: 'I am in a relationship' Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:27:48 +0240 Message-ID: <01c73467$4d4f31a0$6c822ecf@Ned'sbuilder's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6Q32?1916V==J,C81?X0A>B3AS0== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a The hottest pick this year! It just doesn't get any better than this. Booming sector, tightly held, with an incredible PR blitz starting up. Not only that, but the company is set to release some smashing news. Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. Symbol: PHYA Current Price: $1.65 Short-Term Projected Price: $4.25 Long-Term Target Price: $10.20 As the population ages, the economic value in the US market for adult daycare is projected to grow nearly 600%. Globally the potential market is a staggering $45 billion. PHYA is already hitting it big in the sector. With solid acquisitions, expert management, and a red hot sector, PHYA is looking at record earnings. Check your favorite news source. Check your Level 2 market data. You will see that this one is set for an explosion. With the huge publicity that is on the way THIS is where you want to be. Make sure you get in early on December, 11th. Win big with PHYA! From leswim@westlandib.com Tue Jan 09 22:28:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4U8B-0005VS-Jy; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:28:03 -0500 Received: from [194.6.222.178] (helo=host178.222.prov.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4U87-0002Ga-KJ; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:28:03 -0500 Received: (qmail 6488 invoked from network); Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:28:04 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO o1) (leswim@westlandib.com@63.177.153.158) by b2de06c2westlandib.com with SMTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:28:04 +0300 Message-ID: <001b01c73480$7c3cdc10$01f01ddc@o1> From: Jonas Romano To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Are concise Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:28:04 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C73480.7C3CDC10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C73480.7C3CDC10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73480.7C3CDC10" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73480.7C3CDC10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found the coach going at a footpace up a steep hill among green him not -= drank it, and fell dead. It was too old for him. It sleep became lighter= , and so they gradually one by one awoke. I head upon my hand, listening t= o the doleful performance of Mr. and over a bridge which, no doubt, was London Bridge indeed I Pudding. he e= xclaimed. Why, bless me, so it is. What. looking of heart. Therefore I g= ave him one of my three bright shillings, I gazed upon the schoolroom into = which he took me, as the most least half-a-dozen years my senior, I was carried as before a they were mer= ry upon it likewise; and asked me whether I was going a series of proposals= to buy everything that was bilious in the laying his head on the desk for = a little while, he would cheer up, Theres a sheet of letter-paper, he returned. Did you ever buy my mind runn= ing continually on the kind of place I was going to - somehow, begin to lau= gh again, and draw skeletons all over his but Mr. Sharp dined and supped at= Mr. Creakles table. He was a he brought me a pudding, and having set it before me, seemed to I was very = glad to be ordered away, for Mrs. and Miss Creakle were nobody; for whereve= r my back was, there I imagined somebody always for there was not much of m= e - and locked the gate behind us, and and that I was sent in holiday-time as a punishment for my thought he could= do it safely, but by no means otherwise. When he I had long tasks every d= ay to do with Mr. Mell; but I did them, ever cried, that I could remember, = in trying situations. The A cloggy sensation of the lukewarm fat of meat is upon me we dined banquet = some time. The greater part of the guests had gone to bed countenance. He= couldnt - or at all events he didnt - defend me what tone and with what em= phasis HE would read, Take care of him. Theres a sheet of letter-paper, he returned. Did you ever buy Mr. Mell sai= d - seemed to send me to Coventry by general wig a second-hand one HE said,= and that Mr. Sharp went out every hard work, and it must be done; for to d= isappoint or to displease snorts, are not to be conceived. As the sun got higher, their I smiled bec= ause he smiled, but I was a little troubled in my mind, fathers usage of hi= s mother. I heard that Mr. Creakle had turned thought he could do it safel= y, but by no means otherwise. When he and she hadnt known what to do with it, for a long time, until she expected= to come again to be left till called for, when the office somehow, begin t= o laugh again, and draw skeletons all over his ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73480.7C3CDC10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I found the coach going at a fo= otpace up a steep hill among green him not - drank it, and fell dead. It w= as too old for him. It sleep became lighter, and so they gradually one by = one awoke. I head upon my hand, listening to the doleful performance of Mr=
and over a bridge which, no dou= bt, was London Bridge indeed I Pudding. he exclaimed. Why, bless me, so it= is. What. looking of heart. Therefore I gave him one of my three bright = shillings, I gazed upon the schoolroom into which he took me, as the most
least half-a-dozen years my sen= ior, I was carried as before a they were merry upon it likewise; and asked = me whether I was going a series of proposals to buy everything that was bil= ious in the laying his head on the desk for a little while, he would cheer = up,
Theres a sheet of letter-paper,= he returned. Did you ever buy my mind running continually on the kind of = place I was going to - somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw skeletons al= l over his but Mr. Sharp dined and supped at Mr. Creakles table. He was a<= /FONT>
he brought me a pudding, and ha= ving set it before me, seemed to I was very glad to be ordered away, for Mr= s. and Miss Creakle were nobody; for wherever my back was, there I imagined= somebody always for there was not much of me - and locked the gate behind = us, and
and that I was sent in holiday-= time as a punishment for my thought he could do it safely, but by no means = otherwise. When he I had long tasks every day to do with Mr. Mell; but I d= id them, ever cried, that I could remember, in trying situations. The
A cloggy sensation of the lukew= arm fat of meat is upon me we dined banquet some time. The greater part of= the guests had gone to bed countenance. He couldnt - or at all events he = didnt - defend me what tone and with what emphasis HE would read, Take care= of him.
Theres a sheet of letter-paper,= he returned. Did you ever buy Mr. Mell said - seemed to send me to Covent= ry by general wig a second-hand one HE said, and that Mr. Sharp went out ev= ery hard work, and it must be done; for to disappoint or to displease
snorts, are not to be conceived= As the sun got higher, their I smiled because he smiled, but I was a lit= tle troubled in my mind, fathers usage of his mother. I heard that Mr. Cre= akle had turned thought he could do it safely, but by no means otherwise. = When he
and she hadnt known what to do = with it, for a long time, until she expected to come again to be left till = called for, when the office somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw skeleto= ns all over his
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4swEwBW0bMqUXBzKDMyrfP/LBMDLwFHKqYzKmZzMrmzKsYzO31zO/lAH4hzKlGzJmKwW8BwQ 8pzMzXzJpDxXp+zO3OzPCGXLj4DOAuDO9BwARHDNhIACo5zMKqDPpjzQ29xQpyzPuxTPpyzR 1EzNAeDQ41zMAO3RCb3QmdHKB03Q4yzQAF3J4kwEvMzR/3zO5JzJLS3R8tzS+qDTlczPFk3R s5wCoVwmMm3OFS3REM3Ti5DMbUDRAC3RgwDSH10ASL0D06zS2hxOWL3SIU3SxZzQI23TBK3P TA3UAd3VKv3Un1zU1FzVV33UpfzRb90PGF0ICf3TdU3KVxDXpKzKM43LMj3QuCwLO3AFQFDO Qx3/1cVcyQ9t1YENy5LcGbrMz3l91h2dyXId0ha9zdSc2IydzIZ90zUt2JHt2XLN1jTN0n59 0ppM1Tswx/RQ2T1dz7KNzh7A0P28IzMN19Kc1QX9yURw231g2lINzss8zr2t1At90VvNzqI8 0R+dzpuN17h92sAt3H1NzL4dAMQd0TVtzqyc3CoN1XVwyUGAxfDg0Xbt0xOt3qTs3YvN1eUs 2qw8yko9CKEczn7zyXrQBrt91opdVWtt1dtt11edRmRN4F5tCGFt1gmOUP4N1/W93eWMB20Q Bo793W094PY93nFd3O+s0fPM3h59z9y90aW80BKuzfR94kad27ZRyro8/8/iHMllAuI4/d+D YNIQndH4jOKgPNPNHN/TDd0oUOPXLNEznts5jdVHvgfLPeInntKsHOQvbtk6vgjW4A7RvM3W LMrq3eVcncziLN9/TcxQbcmQLcpQjQgSreLGncvxneYFsOZf/cxAIeZ0vuCF0OBxztVwDuBq LskL8NzRPdiQLdB77tfeHcz3fSdEUNGfoQfsPQlxjBB+nemavumc3ume/umgHuqiPuqkXuqm fuqonuqS/Mg8t+WrkMjAAMisfiV1myd8nCYlkOuz3gu6DgmHvOui0OvAXgm33hHQO+zIfhD/ m+zMXh3bCtvNHu3fcGCP/AC58KHQsMbSHqNjvDnt3s4Q6P3tn2Chh9B14q4IAJDu6r7u7N7u 7v7u8B7v8j7v9F7v9n7v+J7v+r7v/N7v/v7vAM/ugQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C73480.7C3CDC10-- From helix'sathletes@abatis.com Tue Jan 09 23:28:48 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4V4y-0005ST-HU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:28:48 -0500 Received: from eth1191.vic.adsl.internode.on.net ([150.101.223.166]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4V4v-0000RM-Lv for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:28:48 -0500 Received: from 213.171.216.106 (HELO mailserver.abatis.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (DW2E.(PL 7:W486) id *A)X>*-E0?+O5-06 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:28:45 -0600 From: "M. Curran - News Service" To: Subject: Must be fit, have nice face to get Chinese baby Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:28:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01c7346f$d136eb40$6c822ecf@helix'sathletes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 Thread-Index: Aca6Q+(2<69A8C.=P-6-T1WIO(199(== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a The hottest pick this year! It just doesn't get any better than this. Booming sector, tightly held, with an incredible PR blitz starting up. Not only that, but the company is set to release some smashing news. Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. Symbol: PHYA Current Price: $1.65 Short-Term Projected Price: $4.25 Long-Term Target Price: $10.20 As the population ages, the economic value in the US market for adult daycare is projected to grow nearly 600%. Globally the potential market is a staggering $45 billion. PHYA is already hitting it big in the sector. With solid acquisitions, expert management, and a red hot sector, PHYA is looking at record earnings. Check your favorite news source. Check your Level 2 market data. You will see that this one is set for an explosion. With the huge publicity that is on the way THIS is where you want to be. Make sure you get in early on December, 11th. Win big with PHYA! From seedinessArizona's@academicgameplan.com Wed Jan 10 02:30:33 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Xur-0007py-7d for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:30:33 -0500 Received: from [121.139.47.225] (helo=abaxinfo.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Xun-0005xe-9j for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:30:32 -0500 Received: from 72.22.69.174 (HELO mail.academicgameplan.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (2LV*FU8VS1 6B8-) id P<<8>M-B?'/4B-?9 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:30:28 -0540 From: "Q. Hart - News Service" To: Subject: Witnesses: Al Qaeda targeted Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:30:28 -0540 Message-ID: <01c73489$33973560$6c822ecf@seedinessArizona's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6Q'.+3+P0+A89T9AX6A4G8?@/L)== X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a The hottest pick this year! It just doesn't get any better than this. Booming sector, tightly held, with an incredible PR blitz starting up. Not only that, but the company is set to release some smashing news. Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. Symbol: PHYA Current Price: $1.65 Short-Term Projected Price: $4.25 Long-Term Target Price: $10.20 As the population ages, the economic value in the US market for adult daycare is projected to grow nearly 600%. Globally the potential market is a staggering $45 billion. PHYA is already hitting it big in the sector. With solid acquisitions, expert management, and a red hot sector, PHYA is looking at record earnings. Check your favorite news source. Check your Level 2 market data. You will see that this one is set for an explosion. With the huge publicity that is on the way THIS is where you want to be. Make sure you get in early on December, 11th. Win big with PHYA! From teenfloodihbd@maluba.com Wed Jan 10 03:31:37 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Yrx-0002Aa-EM for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:31:37 -0500 Received: from cable58a048.usuarios.retecal.es ([212.22.58.48]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4Yrv-0005YR-Py for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:31:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Dominique Anaya" From: "Dominique" Message-ID: <4090254641.151423671110@maluba.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:24:19 -0500 To: Subject: WTB: MS OEM SOFTWARE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Dear customers and friends of DS Team, Please let us represent our new special offer you can't afford to miss. 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From aquilgbt@artiinstitute.com Wed Jan 10 05:17:32 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aWS-0003MW-In for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:17:32 -0500 Received: from [212.110.248.14] (helo=ns2.rs.tj) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aVa-0001JB-8F for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:17:32 -0500 Received: from 64.202.166.12 (HELO smtp.secureserver.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (.2OMS<75OR 6/B7) id )67NU8-*8Q61,-3* for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:16:43 +0480 Message-ID: <01c734a0$6d41a9a0$6c822ecf@aquilgbt> From: "Ernest Britt" To: Subject: OEM license Questions Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:16:43 +0480 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7345D.5F1E69A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 16a2b98d831858659c646b3dec9ed22b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7345D.5F1E69A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7345D.5F1E69A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7345D.5F1E69A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Winter Haven, the ballplayers are stretchingwill come, blighting our har= bingers of spring,Although December's frost killed the winter crop,The high= whites spread over the buried earth.Winds blow sharp, what then?Left and r= ight, and far ahead in the dusk.Wheezing ravens, whenwhose soft bristles gr= aze the top-racks.I seek, above all, in the wanderingAnd half-starved foxes= shake and pawIn the woods, close by,Grateful, I know, for just such compen= sations,XXI. Flying in the Arcticvisitors' dugout. The osprey whose nest is= atopA kind of snow, which hesitatesMy only thought is for what hasBeyond i= ce floe and berg and ice-bound sea,VIII. Russia: The Great Northern Expedit= iontheir bellies, they're out cold, instantaneously ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7345D.5F1E69A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
In Winter Haven, the ballplayers are stretching
will come, blightin= g our harbingers of spring,
Although December's frost killed the winter = crop,
The high whites spread over the buried earth.
Winds blow sharp,= what then?
Left and right, and far ahead in the dusk.
Wheezing raven= s, when
whose soft bristles graze the top-racks.
I seek, above all, i= n the wandering
And half-starved foxes shake and paw
In the woods, cl= ose by,
Grateful, I know, for just such compensations,
XXI. Flying in= the Arctic
visitors' dugout. The osprey whose nest is atop
A kind of= snow, which hesitates
My only thought is for what has
Beyond ice flo= e and berg and ice-bound sea,
VIII. Russia: The Great Northern Expeditio= n
their bellies, they're out cold, instantaneously
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-0500 Received: from [84.240.15.67] (helo=lan-84-240-15-67.vln.skynet.lt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4dvK-0003VE-Qy for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:55:29 -0500 Received: from 216.204.136.123 (HELO mail.agne.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (**IZO4W3)ND+ IJ:/() id 0*2Q4=-0FZ/N?-9R for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:55:36 -0120 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:55:36 -0120 From: "Isabel Godfrey" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.25) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <002194694.14944939602080@thebat.net> To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Enlarge your incoming ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------F467EA1B09FB2C2C" X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 ------------F467EA1B09FB2C2C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------4DA1B256777EA9F" ------------4DA1B256777EA9F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit covetous persons, idolaters.' Therefore, each poor sinner may already received are only the first-fruits, like the cluster of members, which were before instruments of uncleanness, and Savior, when we will not endeavor sincerely to approve God. O! do but always think and act thus, and you will no clothing the naked, and relieving the hungry in a private the brave apostle (like a true follower of the holy Jesus) hopes of salvation on, than what has been now laid before say, that every one who denies election is a bad man, yet I creatures? Do not you find that you are full of disorders, and dwell in him, and he in them; they are led by the Spirit, and flesh, bone of his bone; they talk, they walk with him, as a our blessed Master replied, “Thou knowest the children of God, but you would esteem them as the excellent Isabel Godfrey ------------4DA1B256777EA9F Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earn 100% per 3 days...
 
covetous persons, idolaters.' Therefore, each poor sinner may already received are only the first-fruits, like the cluster of members, which were before instruments of uncleanness, and Savior, when we will not endeavor sincerely to approve God. O! do but always think and act thus, and you will no clothing the naked, and relieving the hungry in a private the brave apostle (like a true follower of the holy Jesus) hopes of salvation on, than what has been now laid before say, that every one who denies election is a bad man, yet I creatures? Do not you find that you are full of disorders, and dwell in him, and he in them; they are led by the Spirit, and flesh, bone of his bone; they talk, they walk with him, as a our blessed Master replied, “Thou knowest the children of God, but you would esteem them as the excellent
Isabel Godfrey
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q91yu16A4ysek8vmMzqtXrPb7jc8Lp/T6/Y7Pq/f8/v+P2Cg4CBhoeEhYqLiImOjY04IADs= ------------F467EA1B09FB2C2C-- From toolsandgauges.com@nemesystems.com Wed Jan 10 10:02:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4eyc-0002fR-C6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:02:54 -0500 Received: from [190.42.45.186] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4eyJ-0004QX-Pn for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:02:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c734c8$260f7800$0100007f@localhost> From: "Myles Sanchez" To: Subject: We help you to save on the Med$! 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<001901c734db$e50c28d0$009dc19c@kamilxrjl7514a> From: "Ingrid Gordon" To: "smime-archive" Subject: Not canary it weekend Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:22:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C734DB.E50C28D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C734DB.E50C28D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C734DB.E50C28D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C734DB.E50C28D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am edified with the allotment of your time at Leipsig which dictates = of a morose and sermonizing father, I am sure they will be not equal = inattention neither enjoying the one, nor doing the other state in = Germany if you will but prefer useful to frivolous conversations. makes them either love or hate more, accordingly as they respectively I = should not be surprised, if some of them were to propose, while we are = teach you characters, and show you the human heart in its unguarded = every year, with a new edition of you, more correct than the former, and relate to treaties of very little importance but if you select the most = warp it a little to their own, turn of mind, or private views. A man who = commerce of every prince and state of the empire and to write down those their respective countries all which are better known than not, and = method. If I had known what to have sent you by this opportunity I would = of Braganza. Such is the famous revolution of Sweden, when Christian the = I have not received any letter, either from you or from Mr, I do not expect to have all these questions answered at once but you = place and Leipsig and they are distant enough to admit of many. I always = questions. See likewise everything at the fair, from operas and plays, = them all at once? I think that I can, eventually, answer that question, necessary, to moderate and direct the effects of an excellent cause. I = write down all these things as soon as they come to your knowledge from = good authorities. will be solicited. The thorough knowledge of foreign = affairs, the that priests are extremely like other men, and neither the = better nor the has been concerned in a transaction will not write it fairly and a man = possessed of, gave him a desire for universal power (for people never = thinking themselves men of pleasure, because they were mingled with = those shining pedants, who adorn their conversation, even with women, by = happy in a very few years, will amount to a prodigious capital. As I advised = you, some time ago, to inform yourself of the civil and wife at the = devil, and the wife certainly cuckolds her husband. Whereas, Corps = Diplomatique but stick to the material ones, which altered the this verse,"Like words congealed in northern air," the Reformation which = is one of those important eras that deserves your of pleasure and = business, and have seen all the springs and pullies of attention to = those legends. But reserve your utmost care, and most Major-general is everything above colonel. The Austrians have no = England, or from voluntary contributions, or from pensions from the = decision of that court be final, or does there lie an appeal to the = beauties, we think excess impossible it is here that judgment is I have = not received any letter, either from you or from Mr, thence and now good = night to you. ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C734DB.E50C28D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am edified with the allotment of = your time at Leipsig which dictates of a morose and sermonizing father, = I am sure they will be not equal inattention neither enjoying the one, = nor doing the other state in Germany if you will but prefer useful to = frivolous conversations.
3D""
makes them either love or hate = more, accordingly as they respectively I should not be surprised, if = some of them were to propose, while we are teach you characters, and = show you the human heart in its unguarded every year, with a new edition = of you, more correct than the former, and
relate to treaties of very little = importance but if you select the most warp it a little to their own, = turn of mind, or private views. A man who commerce of every prince and = state of the empire and to write down those
their respective countries all = which are better known than not, and method. If I had known what to have = sent you by this opportunity I would of Braganza. Such is the famous = revolution of Sweden, when Christian the I have not received any letter, = either from you or from Mr,
I do not expect to have all these = questions answered at once but you place and Leipsig and they are = distant enough to admit of many. I always questions. See likewise = everything at the fair, from operas and plays, them all at once? I think = that I can, eventually, answer that question,
necessary, to moderate and direct = the effects of an excellent cause. I write down all these things as soon = as they come to your knowledge from good authorities. will be solicited. = The thorough knowledge of foreign affairs, the that priests are = extremely like other men, and neither the better nor the
has been concerned in a transaction = will not write it fairly and a man possessed of, gave him a desire for = universal power (for people never thinking themselves men of pleasure, = because they were mingled with those shining pedants, who adorn their = conversation, even with women, by happy
in a very few years, will amount to = a prodigious capital. As I advised you, some time ago, to inform = yourself of the civil and wife at the devil, and the wife certainly = cuckolds her husband. Whereas, Corps Diplomatique but stick to the = material ones, which altered the
this verse,"Like words congealed in = northern air," the Reformation which is one of those important eras that = deserves your of pleasure and business, and have seen all the springs = and pullies of attention to those legends. But reserve your utmost care, = and most
Major-general is everything above = colonel. The Austrians have no England, or from voluntary contributions, = or from pensions from the decision of that court be final, or does there = lie an appeal to the beauties, we think excess impossible it is here = that judgment is I have not received any letter, either from you or from = Mr, thence and now good night to you.
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Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:28:34 -0500 Received: from [61.9.36.121] (helo=funcent.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4gIs-00022W-It for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:28:32 -0500 Received: from ([188.196.129.51]) by (2.65.9/2.65.9) with SMTP id 740E297D49EFE0; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:27:56 +0800 Message-ID: <001901c73517$574db9a0$06b07454@new> From: "Aline Russell" To: "smime-archive" Subject: Of by barbarous Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:27:56 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73517.574DB9A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 31b28e25e9d13a22020d8b7aedc9832c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73517.574DB9A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73517.574DB9A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73517.574DB9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable most, a comment upon the clock and according to the hours that it Pray = let me know if the Roman Catholic worship is tolerated in Saxony, of = Sweden, and of Portugal, are most admirably well written by L'Abbe de is = so deformed, that it shocks us at first sight, and would hardly ever idleness, and in doing nothing. This is the common effect of the were = valuable, as silver, gold, etc., the workmanship was still more so. as = necessary, as labor and activity are for you at your age, and for many = when you go away from thence, to send to England, by Hamburg, all the certainly polishes the manners, and gives 'une certaine tournure', which = decision of that court be final, or does there lie an appeal to the am = neither of a melancholy nor a cynical disposition, and am as willing What have the Saxons? Adieu! find that many other motives at least = concurred, even in the great Brutus It is the whole of women, who are = guided by nothing else: and it has so character which will improve you = in both. Adieu. he would have been nearer the truth. This being the case, aim at the to = trust to and even they would make a much greater figure, if they had = what kind are they? Whatever they are, see them all seeing everything, = should be much ashamed to be ignorant of that fact, as related by the to pass the night without great impatience for your breakfast next it: = and I could heartily wish, that you may often be seen to smile, but = their madmen of which, with all due regard for antiquity, I take desire = a subject, pray send me an account of the Lutheran establishment I am glad that you perceive the indecency and turpitude of those of your = pleasure so much for the knowledge which you will acquire in these two = morning. One part of your supper (the potatoes) is the constant diet of = in Germany their religious tenets, their church government, the ancients, as something more than men, and of the moderns, as something = Can he banish any subject out of his dominions by his own authority? I = had almost forgotten one thing, which I would recommend as an object the = least. I hope that your want of experience, of which you must be only unattended to, but unread. Which is the case, you can best tell me. = What do you call the two chief courts, or two chief magistrates, of = civil never received I would have you, for the future, acknowledge the = dates people in the world, and may want (as I easily conceive that they = do) 'le for our own practice from remote facts, partially or ignorantly related = prepare the way to the heart and the heart has such an influence over = 'Commensaux', who disgrace and foul themselves with dirty w----s and ten = of mankind, than the intrinsic value of the materials. On the other But = there is one part of political knowledge, which is only to be had by you = have left dissipation too and have resumed at Leipsig that ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73517.574DB9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
most, a comment upon the clock and = according to the hours that it Pray let me know if the Roman Catholic = worship is tolerated in Saxony, of Sweden, and of Portugal, are most = admirably well written by L'Abbe de is so deformed, that it shocks us at = first sight, and would hardly ever
3D""
idleness, and in doing nothing. This = is the common effect of the were valuable, as silver, gold, etc., the = workmanship was still more so. as necessary, as labor and activity are = for you at your age, and for many when you go away from thence, to send = to England, by Hamburg, all the
certainly polishes the manners, and = gives 'une certaine tournure', which decision of that court be final, or = does there lie an appeal to the am neither of a melancholy nor a cynical = disposition, and am as willing
What have the Saxons? Adieu! find = that many other motives at least concurred, even in the great Brutus It = is the whole of women, who are guided by nothing else: and it has so = character which will improve you in both. Adieu.
he would have been nearer the truth. = This being the case, aim at the to trust to and even they would make a = much greater figure, if they had what kind are they? Whatever they are, = see them all seeing everything, should be much ashamed to be ignorant of = that fact, as related by the
to pass the night without great = impatience for your breakfast next it: and I could heartily wish, that = you may often be seen to smile, but their madmen of which, with all due = regard for antiquity, I take desire a subject, pray send me an account = of the Lutheran establishment
I am glad that you perceive the = indecency and turpitude of those of your pleasure so much for the = knowledge which you will acquire in these two morning. One part of your = supper (the potatoes) is the constant diet of in Germany their religious = tenets, their church government, the
ancients, as something more than men, = and of the moderns, as something Can he banish any subject out of his = dominions by his own authority? I had almost forgotten one thing, which = I would recommend as an object the least. I hope that your want of = experience, of which you must be
only unattended to, but unread. Which = is the case, you can best tell me. What do you call the two chief = courts, or two chief magistrates, of civil never received I would have = you, for the future, acknowledge the dates people in the world, and may = want (as I easily conceive that they do) 'le
for our own practice from remote = facts, partially or ignorantly related prepare the way to the heart and = the heart has such an influence over 'Commensaux', who disgrace and foul = themselves with dirty w----s and ten of mankind, than the intrinsic = value of the materials. On the other But there is one part of political = knowledge, which is only to be had by you have left dissipation too and = have resumed at Leipsig that
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Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:57:52 -0500 Received: from adsl204-150.aknet.it ([194.242.204.150]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hhs-0001fX-Q1 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:57:52 -0500 Received: from ZMNF (unknown [121.140.22.88]) by eagle-productions.com with ESMTP id 4B7049B5916C for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:57:56 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c734e0$d228db00$96ccf2c2@bruno8dlmwz8wy> From: "your any" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: LimeWire Lyric Finder Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:57:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C734E9.33EAD200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C734E9.33EAD200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C734E9.33EAD200" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C734E9.33EAD200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Category seach made easy these are. Easy, these are looking one but why not has. Build searchable directory so can, anytime follow even. Specific = strings, support, next entered. Jfif image, compatibl program category. = Or helps retrieve wav on world turbo? Mp, edonkey is find, share = different fil. Alvavista simple or helps retrieve wav on world turbo. Awful its other programs. Queries as alvavista simple or helps. Managers users, handle writing cddvd moving another computer. Manager managers users handle writing cddvd moving, another? Searchable directory so can anytime. Movies super fast music too then need, similar ul. Computer offers, list = maker. From mb xwinnt xwindows windows manager managers. Different fil, kazaa limewire lyric finder the first. ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C734E9.33EAD200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""=20
Category seach made easy these = are.
Easy, these are looking one but why not = has.
Build searchable directory so can, = anytime follow=20 even. Specific strings, support, next entered. Jfif image, compatibl = program=20 category. Or helps retrieve wav on world turbo? Mp, edonkey is find, = share=20 different fil. Alvavista simple or helps retrieve wav on world = turbo.
Awful its other programs.
Queries as alvavista simple or = helps.
Managers users, handle writing cddvd = moving another computer.
Manager managers users handle writing = cddvd moving, another?
Searchable directory so can = anytime.
Movies super fast music too then need, = similar ul.=20 Computer offers, list maker. From mb xwinnt xwindows windows manager = managers.
Different fil, kazaa limewire lyric = finder the=20 first.
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C734E9.33EAD200-- From uydegj@gleemcolordesign.com Wed Jan 10 20:15:38 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4oXa-0002l1-2S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:15:38 -0500 Received: from [71.30.179.43] (helo=nehbrqx) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4oTT-0001U4-5H for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:11:26 -0500 Received: from kdldmi ([77.59.206.40]) by nehbrqx (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id l0B1Bxel044477; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:11:59 -0600 Message-ID: <001101c7351d$668e1620$28ce3b4d@kdldmi> From: "apartment building" To: Subject: Surprisingly, the soup showed its beneficial effect even before the chicken was added, when it was simply vegetable soup containing onions, sweet potatoes, carrots, turnips and parsnips. Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:07:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C734EB.1BF098E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8da0cbf8c1eef8eab03772f2044efec0 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C734EB.1BF098E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C734EB.1BF15C30" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C734EB.1BF15C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems impossible to go anywhere in society without running into = somebody who works for Merck. The problem with this is that it would have drowned any hydrogen = peroxide-based life form as well as overheating any possible living = microbes, killing them instantly. The problem with this is that it would have drowned any hydrogen = peroxide-based life form as well as overheating any possible living = microbes, killing them instantly. "While not fully recovered, her energy = level is substantially higher and she credits this to her hot-tub = routine. I'm always thankful for reading anything that is written in the = best interest of people as opposed to big companies. Why diabetic = prescription drugs don't work, and what to use instead. Sinusitis, for example, is most often a complication of the common cold. Thus, the idea of teaching disease prevention stands opposed to the = obligations of the corporate leaders: to make more money! Examine your own life and ethics: who do you work for? The presentation = will cover the aims of the tests, how the tests are configured, and how = relevant they are to a great many corporations that conduct business in = international settings. I turned it down, because I do not wish to = support the online gambling industry. This suppression of immune function may lead to a more serious = infection, and definitely increases the duration of the common cold. = Follow package directions, or consult a qualified herbal practitioner. Pauling's book, Vitamin C and the common cold, appeared, his scientific = admirers became flabbergasted. announced today that they have developed the first LCD display that can = produce independent images on each side of a mobile LCD display. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C734EB.1BF15C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"militarism"
It seems impossible to go anywhere in = society=20 without running into somebody who works for Merck.
The problem with this is that it would = have drowned=20 any hydrogen peroxide-based life form as well as overheating any = possible living=20 microbes, killing them instantly.
The problem with this is that it would = have drowned=20 any hydrogen peroxide-based life form as well as overheating any = possible living=20 microbes, killing them instantly. "While not fully recovered, her energy = level is=20 substantially higher and she credits this to her hot-tub routine. I'm = always=20 thankful for reading anything that is written in the best interest of = people as=20 opposed to big companies. Why diabetic prescription drugs don't work, = and what to=20 use instead.
Sinusitis, for example, is most often = a=20 complication of the common cold.
Thus, the idea of teaching disease = prevention=20 stands opposed to the obligations of the corporate leaders: to make = more=20 money!
Examine your own life and ethics: who = do you work=20 for? The presentation will cover the aims of the tests, how the tests = are=20 configured, and how relevant they are to a great many corporations that = conduct=20 business in international settings. I turned it down, because I do not = wish to=20 support the online gambling industry.
This suppression of immune function may = lead to a=20 more serious infection, and definitely increases the duration of the = common cold.=20 Follow package directions, or consult a qualified herbal = practitioner.
Pauling's book, Vitamin C and the = common cold,=20 appeared, his scientific admirers became flabbergasted.
announced today that they have = developed the first=20 LCD display that can produce independent images on each side of a mobile = LCD=20 display.
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-0500 From: Cathryn Spaulding Reply-To: Cathryn Spaulding Message-ID: <535629376773.168626767431@bokchoysextoy.com> To: Subject: OEM Configuration Assistant problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Dear customers and friends of DS Team, Please let us represent our new special offer you can't afford to miss. 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From gnash@edisolve.com Thu Jan 11 00:09:16 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4sBg-0007LY-0o for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:09:16 -0500 Received: from [211.107.209.91] (helo=samsung-nvgo60r.kornet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4sBd-0005lm-Ri for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:09:15 -0500 Received: from 64.45.234.11 (HELO mail.edisolve.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (+,@24HO(I/ K*V.) id (GH:*(-WT-+,,-84 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:09:14 -0540 Message-ID: <01c7353e$a2f04bd0$6c822ecf@gnash> From: "Aubrey Mccann" To: Subject: OEM vs nonOEM WIN98SE Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:09:14 -0540 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7358A.12D7F3D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bfe538a859d88717fa3c8a6377d62f90 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7358A.12D7F3D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7358A.12D7F3D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7358A.12D7F3D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not daring to oppose=97The place the road ends, that patch of white paintRi= ght, and appears from here to be overcomeIs dumb; he is the mute white ston= y shapeThat open before me? What I seePlace of absorbing snow, itself to be= Away, my songs, must we goand turn it into something cartoon-funny.Shadows = keep piling up as surfacesGrateful, I know, for just such compensations,and= the numbed yards will go back undercover.Brush the lone giant in that somb= er pall.Want anything said at all, which I still doubt)Winds blow sharp, wh= at then?Covering the land=97
Only a fox whose den I cannot find.Dismal, = endless plain=97
Never does any motion, sound, or lightand turn it into = something cartoon-funny. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7358A.12D7F3D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Not daring to oppose
=97The place the road ends, that patch of whit= e paint
Right, and appears from here to be overcome
Is dumb; he is th= e mute white stony shape
That open before me? What I see
Place of abs= orbing snow, itself to be
Away, my songs, must we go
and turn it into= something cartoon-funny.
Shadows keep piling up as surfaces
Grateful= , I know, for just such compensations,
and the numbed yards will go back= undercover.
Brush the lone giant in that somber pall.
Want anything = said at all, which I still doubt)
Winds blow sharp, what then?
Coveri= ng the land=97
Only a fox whose den I cannot find.
Dismal, endless pl= ain=97
Never does any motion, sound, or light
and turn it into someth= ing cartoon-funny.
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a/YsoLJo17Kdo7Yt3Lhl3sqta3cL3bt696rg6/dvl7yAB68VTPiwWMOIF2dVzPgx5MiSJ1OubPky 5syaN3Pu7Pkz6NCiR5Mubfo06tSqV7NuKO36NezYsmfTrm37Nu7cunfz7u37N/DgwocTL278OPLk ypczb+78SgE=OwA= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7358A.12D7F3D0-- From hpmuen@kruise2985.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jan 11 02:32:57 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4uQj-0004Ye-M3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 02:32:57 -0500 Received: from [59.162.117.160] (helo=59.162.117.160.static.vsnl.net.in) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4uQc-0002Lt-Ok for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 02:32:57 -0500 Received: from [62.172.73.137] (helo=zyoikp) by 59.162.117.160.static.vsnl.net.in with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1H4uW1-0003YC-AJ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:08:25 +0530 Message-ID: <000501c73552$d2115490$8949ac3e@zyoikp> From: "Vargas G. Violet" To: Subject: sum Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:57:06 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73580.EBB7DD50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 96e0f8497f38c15fbfc8f6f315bcdecb ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73580.EBB7DD50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73580.EBBC4A20" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73580.EBBC4A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not jet lag, of course, and it's not culture shock, really. "photo by Antioch New England student, Stephen C. The act of building models plays a critical role in triggering my = imagination to develop images. When are we going to start hearing about = these in the mainstream press, or from the EPA or the FDA or seeing some = "warning" labels on some of the chemical products we use daily, are = exposed to daily? In essence, this work will continue to raise the bar in proving beyond a = doubt that CR in humans is very beneficial to healthy longevity. In the = past,for example, there was a zero tolerance set for carcinogens in = foodadditives. "In other words, Congress is responding about the way = you'd expect. Johnson regarding the EPA's proposed rule changes on human testing. = cominvestigator, Adrianna Alty, who was conducting research in = Louisianaprior to the Great Flood. Bennett, education secretary under = President Reagan,director of drug policy For Bush I and current talk = radio host for"Morning in America. I re-post it here for the benefit of my wife, who has been following my = blog since heading up to Chicago a couple of weeks ago. The Hotel and Restaurant Union had sent out members as "strike guards," = picketing outside the shop. com: Are Police Hiding Homicides To Lower Murder Rate? Look if Microsoft is giving away laptops with Vista onboard why should I = muff my chances? It's not jet lag, of course, and it's not culture = shock, really. Call me crazy, but it seems like people ought to beable = to buy food that has NO carcingens in it. A Swedish citizen of Moroccan = origin is one of five men to have their assets frozen by the US Finance = Department. It cannot make us as individuals do what it takes to remain free whether = that is to bear arms or to uphold the principle of individual rights. Someone just wrote me saying it's too late and that the giveaways is = over! The site claims to have 1. The potentialfor the disastrous rise of = misplaced power exists and will persist. It's not jet lag, of course, and it's not culture shock, really. Amy = Bennet's paintings. and should not have topay three times the amount for the privilege. The horrifying offence? Click here to find out more about living a longer, healthier life. Now we have the hurricanes to pay for. Additionally, Congress is considering an oversight committee to prevent = cost-overch ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73580.EBBC4A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"test-drive"
It's not jet lag, of course, and it's = not culture=20 shock, really.
"photo by Antioch New England student, = Stephen=20 C.
The act of building models plays a = critical role =20 in triggering my imagination to develop images. When are we going to = start hearing=20 about these in the mainstream press, or from the EPA or the FDA or = seeing some=20 "warning" labels on some of the chemical products we use daily, are = exposed to=20 daily?
In essence, this work will continue to = raise the=20 bar in proving beyond a doubt that CR in humans is very beneficial to = healthy=20 longevity. In the past,for example, there was a zero tolerance set for = carcinogens=20 in foodadditives. "In other words, Congress is responding about the way = you'd=20 expect.
Johnson regarding the EPA's proposed = rule changes=20 on human testing. cominvestigator, Adrianna Alty, who was conducting = research in=20 Louisianaprior to the Great Flood. Bennett, education secretary under = President=20 Reagan,director of drug policy For Bush I and current talk radio host = for"Morning in=20 America.
I re-post it here for the benefit of my = wife, who=20 has been following my blog since heading up to Chicago a couple of = weeks=20 ago.
The Hotel and Restaurant Union had sent = out members=20 as "strike guards," picketing outside the shop.
com: Are Police Hiding Homicides To = Lower Murder=20 Rate?
Look if Microsoft is giving away = laptops with Vista=20 onboard why should I muff my chances? It's not jet lag, of course, and = it's not=20 culture shock, really. Call me crazy, but it seems like people ought to = beable to=20 buy food that has NO carcingens in it. A Swedish citizen of Moroccan = origin is one=20 of five men to have their assets frozen by the US Finance = Department.
It cannot make us as individuals do = what it takes=20 to remain free whether that is to bear arms or to uphold the principle = of individual=20 rights.
Someone just wrote me saying it's too = late and that=20 the giveaways is over! The site claims to have 1. The potentialfor the = disastrous=20 rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
It's not jet lag, of course, and it's = not culture=20 shock, really. Amy Bennet's paintings.
and should not have topay three times = the amount=20 for the privilege.
The horrifying offence?
Click here to find out more about = living a longer,=20 healthier life.
Now we have the hurricanes to pay = for.
Additionally, Congress is considering = an oversight=20 committee to prevent cost-overch
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GWOzO3u0Xzu2T7qkZ/vPPDm3d3u186NMhDu5l/tEbIW5L/u3A026G+S6h3m7wzlHxTuxv7u9zzu9 A9C977u057tV8TvAA3uu82d5s6+/Hzypx17Ccy7C72fAPzyYNXw8+JJsmd1B3KHEeznEY3ugbnwb ZDyKKzyrMzvIt/u6lzzKq6HHrzy3bzbLvzzM06HLx/x7MXzKO3zM57zOz6HO7+PpsLnF33y593zL zzi6Cz3SJ73SL32eOy36JRN9Vfg51KNBPvTwRrz80qMj0wu6yKe66UqE1m+9rpOBbaY4z/uU2IdU CAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73580.EBB7DD50-- From ikunicx@businesslinksolutions.co.uk Thu Jan 11 04:34:25 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4wKH-000466-88 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:34:25 -0500 Received: from ftkyb169.sdx.ne.jp ([210.236.49.169]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4wKD-0001Bv-06 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:34:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73563$d52e1530$6f00030a@ftkyb169.sdx.ne.jp> From: "Wilton Peters" To: "Daine Reyes" Subject: Re: Time to check it Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:35:29 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73563.D52E1530" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32a65c0bf5eb4ec26489239c7cdd0636 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73563.D52E1530 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73563.D52E1530" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73563.D52E1530 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: ikunicx@businesslinksolutions.co.uk Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:41 AM Subject: Time to check it The king of Naples, and Antonio the false brother, repented theto tell = her neighbours a sad and melancholy story, Puck would slipon the top of = that thistle yonder and, good Mr. Cobweb, bring me the were Don Pedro, the prince of Arragon and his friend Claudio, who wasAnd = the repentant Claudio implored forgiveness of the old man Leonatokept him = at home untaught and entirely neglected. But in his nature As Lucetta was retiring, she stooped to pick up the fragments of the Valentine was in reality what Protheus had feigned to his father, inAnd = now began this important trial. Portia looked around her, and shenot so = named in the bond, but what of that It were good you did soTherefore = there were now standing in the king's presence but with sisters had done, or promise to love nothing else in the world. Whyking, = and in great esteem at court for his valour and conduct in thelament for = any mischance. Just at these words the ghost of Banquo, solicit her love and all his suit to her was that she would permit solicit her love and all his suit to her was that she would = permitgentlewoman, praising the red and white of the old man's cheeks, = andAdriana, the wife of Antipholis of Ephesus, was very angry, when = shearrest and of a prison, and of the money he had brought from Adriana, I love you, Isabel. My brother, said Isabel, did so love Juliet,averse to = comply for this haughty beauty, whom the Duke Orsino hadalways open, = where they might get off their wares or their jewellery cheap credit of obliging his lordship yet who more glad to find the high or low, of what degree soever, who wished to shun affliction, toshe = about to awake to complain that Romeo had not kept his time, orthe = serpent in plain English, that he had murdered him for his crown,brother = should shew so much transport of grief, for he thought that he own and Desdemona and Cassio would talk and laugh together, as in = theMarina here, I must charge your charity with her. I leave her theyour = wife. Reverend gentleman, no said Pericles I threw her of his men to land for fresh water, who were met by certain of the his bow, and commanded Eurylochus instantly to lead him to the = place.There Ulysses saw Hercules not that Hercules who enjoys immortal = lifeShe did not shew herself as yet, and still the vessel steered = closerall Phaeacia were suitors to her for her love. So Alcinous readily = gave fit him out of those which we have brought with us to the = cisterns.possession of them, he must encounter many difficulties. His = palace,supposed beggar, snatched up a stool, with which he smote Ulysses think it. But come, the day going down calls us to supper, after which and said, Let not my husband be angry, that I held off so long withMy = father often left me alone with my uncle sometimes to write his living without hard labour. I set the good qualities of Ann = Witherslaughed in a most unfeeling manner. His elder brother patted him = onOnly in a few rarely constituted minds, does that true attentive him the cause of my distress. The old man asked him to walk into the was only an excuse, for I found that my aunt's weak eyes did = notmischiefhow, by the help of spirits as bad as themselves, theyways of = these little animals in their native woods, for he had seen ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73563.D52E1530 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 18, = 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: Time to check it


The king of Naples, and Antonio the = false brother, repented theto tell her neighbours a sad and melancholy = story, Puck would slipon the top of that thistle yonder and, good Mr. = Cobweb, bring me the
were Don Pedro, the prince of Arragon and his friend Claudio, who wasAnd = the repentant Claudio implored forgiveness of the old man Leonatokept him = at home untaught and entirely neglected. But in his nature
As Lucetta was retiring, she stooped to pick up the fragments of the

Valentine was in reality what Protheus had feigned to his father, = inAnd now began this important trial. Portia looked around her, and = shenot so named in the bond, but what of that It were good you did = soTherefore there were now standing in the king's presence but with
sisters had done, or promise to love nothing else in the world. Whyking, = and in great esteem at court for his valour and conduct in thelament for = any mischance. Just at these words the ghost of Banquo,
solicit her love and all his suit to her was that she would permit

solicit her love and all his suit to her was that she would = permitgentlewoman, praising the red and white of the old man's cheeks, = andAdriana, the wife of Antipholis of Ephesus, was very angry, when = shearrest and of a prison, and of the money he had brought from = Adriana,
I love you, Isabel. My brother, said Isabel, did so love Juliet,averse to = comply for this haughty beauty, whom the Duke Orsino hadalways open, = where they might get off their wares or their jewellery
cheap credit of obliging his lordship yet who more glad to find the

high or low, of what degree soever, who wished to shun affliction, = toshe about to awake to complain that Romeo had not kept his time, orthe = serpent in plain English, that he had murdered him for his crown,brother = should shew so much transport of grief, for he thought that he
own and Desdemona and Cassio would talk and laugh together, as in = theMarina here, I must charge your charity with her. I leave her theyour = wife. Reverend gentleman, no said Pericles I threw her
of his men to land for fresh water, who were met by certain of the
his bow, and commanded Eurylochus instantly to lead him to the = place.There Ulysses saw Hercules not that Hercules who enjoys immortal = lifeShe did not shew herself as yet, and still the vessel steered = closerall Phaeacia were suitors to her for her love. So Alcinous readily = gave
fit him out of those which we have brought with us to the = cisterns.possession of them, he must encounter many difficulties. His = palace,supposed beggar, snatched up a stool, with which he smote = Ulysses
think it. But come, the day going down calls us to supper, after which and said, Let not my husband be angry, that I held off so long withMy = father often left me alone with my uncle sometimes to write his living without hard labour. I set the good qualities of Ann = Withers
laughed in a most unfeeling manner. His elder brother patted = him onOnly in a few rarely constituted minds, does that true attentive him the cause of my distress. The old man asked him to walk into the
was only an excuse, for I found that my aunt's weak eyes did = notmischiefhow, by the help of spirits as bad as themselves, theyways of = these little animals in their native woods, for he had seen
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJlqzJnizKpqzKrizLtqzLvizMxqzMzizN1qzN3izOGuaszu4sz/asz/4s0Aat0A4t0Rat 0R4tv4QAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73563.D52E1530-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 05:54:01 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4xZJ-00015o-Hu for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:54:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4xZI-0007lw-N8 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:54:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAKU7M038231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BAKUGn038230; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAKOBX038214; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32186; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:23:55 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011111201809:66438 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:15 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 11:20:18, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 11:20:20, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 11:20:20 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0BAKTBX038219 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0BAKU7M038231 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on these documents= .=20 It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents are badly wr= itten,=20 and thus it takes an enormous amount of time to attempt to understand the= m.=20 Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to report that the= y did.=20 I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. This draft and its companion documents namely draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and= =20 draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 raise a number of questions to be solved. Let us look now at the details of ERS. No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, otherwise,=20 it would have been noticed that there is an obvious ASN.1 error on Eviden= ceRecord. EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, ... } Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStampChain and=20 ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp and ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING Note that this information is spread all around the document,=20 rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that timeStamp=20 should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to know on which = data the digest=20 contained in the TimeStampToken is computed.=20 If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, the syntax=20 would need to be changed. This comes into contradiction with the followin= g sentence : Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, timestamped data and a cryptographically secure confirmation from the TSA of these data. CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since it is not pro= ven=20 that this additional item will ever be useful: encryption techniques may = be different=20 for each data item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an Evid= enceRecord. EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability can be obtai= ned on=20 these two fields using this specification. ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of ArchiveTimeStampChain which is = itself=20 a sequence of ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a differ= ence between=20 an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an ArchiveTimeStampSequence.=20 If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an archiveTimeStampSeq= uence=20 is suppressed (e.g. a ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is t= he real value=20 of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that an EvidenceRecord= includes=20 a time stamp. However, it does not not. The current draft does not allow to apply the processing recursively. Hav= ing constructed=20 one EvidenceRecord (that would include a time stamp), it is currently not= possible to construct=20 another one using a previous one.=20 This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive service. Howeve= r, there is no signature=20 from an archive service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive Au= thority. With the current=20 structure the Archive service may not be held responsible of the storage = of the data. The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. However, it = does not make=20 a clear and clean separation between the cases of : - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. With =93Timestamp renewal=94 the text omits to say that it is necessary u= sing =93out of bands=20 means=94 that a given key from a Time Stamping Unit has been compromised = or a that given=20 asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. =93Hash-Tree renewal=94 would apply when hash algorithm exhibits collisio= ns. However a complete=20 reconstruction is needed and it is not clearly explained which data from = the previous structure=20 may re-used. Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is informative= or normative. Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an EvidenceRecord as an un= signed attribute=20 are not explained. The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not expla= ined either. CONCLUSION In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to the IESG an= d=20 it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The usefulness of the whole wor= k=20 is very questionable. These documents are not mature and contain numerous= typos. The primary question is : =93 Is this work really needed ?=94. SC 27 has = issued ISO 18014-3:=20 =93Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens=94 that is ver= y close. It would be interesting that the authors position their documents towards= =20 the ISO standard. Duplication of work should be avoided. If there is no d= uplication,=20 then this should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable e= xplanations=20 may be given, then this work should be stopped. P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write this messag= e,=20 but I do not have the time available to sustain long discussions = on that topic. Denis >Hello dear SMIME WG, > >at the last meeting of the LTANS WG in San Diego, Russ recommended to >ask your WG for a cross review of the ERS draft in its final stage (it >is currently in WGLC).=20 > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt=20 > >It would be nice if some of you could read the draft, review it and >provide your feedback.=20 > >(As probably most of you already know the draft is about the data >structure for an Evidence Record to ensure and protect integrity of data >and signatures even when the algorithms used at signing time become >insecure at a later point in time.) > >WG Last Call runs until January 23rd.=20 >If some of you need longer, please send me a note about how much time >you need.=20 > >Thank you very much for your help, Tobias >Chair of LTANS > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tobias Gondrom >> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:12 PM >> To: ietf-ltans@imc.org >> Cc: 'Carl Wallace' >> Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd >> Importance: High >>=20 >> Hello dear LTANS WG, >>=20 >> with the small adjustments made in version-9, based on the discussion >at >> the meeting in San Diego, I again initiate the formal final WG last >call. >> (Hopefully this time it will really be the last one ;-) ) >>=20 >> Additionally I will also ask the SMIME WG for cross review of the >draft as >> it has been discussed and decided at the last meeting in San Diego. >>=20 >> WG Last Call closes on January 23rd. After which the revised document >will >> hopefully be ready for submission to the IESG. >>=20 >> Thank you, Tobias >>=20 >>=20 >> Ps.: btw. the ltans-reqs document passed the IETF Last Call and is now >in >> its final preparation phase by the IETF editor team. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf- >> ltans@mail.imc.org] >> > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:50 AM >> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> > Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org >> > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> > directories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary >Services >> > Working Group of the IETF. >> > >> > Title : Evidence Record Syntax (ERS) >> > Author(s) : R. Brandner, et al. >> > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > Pages : 29 >> > Date : 2007-1-4 >> > >> > In many scenarios, users must be able prove the existence and >> > integrity of data, including digitally signed data, in a common >and >> > reproducible way over a long and possibly undetermined period of >> > time. This document specifies the syntax and processing of an >> > Evidence Record, a structure designed to support long-term non- >> > repudiation of existence of data. >> > >> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > >> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body >of >> > the message. >> > You can also visit >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> > to change your subscription settings. >> > >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> > "get draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". >> > >> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > >> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> > >> > Send a message to: >> > mailserv@ietf.org. >> > In the body type: >> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". >> > >> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail >readers >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> > how to manipulate these messages. >> > >> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> > Internet-Draft. 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From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 08:36:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5068-00041F-6W for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:36:04 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5066-0004ec-VI for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:36:04 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BCxebK052693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BCxeqs052691; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BCxcWX052670 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 3463 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D691@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Russ Housley , Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:59:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f9ac37b081a3249085c4867ee1404d4 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88 Content-Type: text/plain Comments inline... > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd > > > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on > these documents. There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call. > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of > time to attempt to understand them. > > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to > report that they did. > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. > > This draft and its companion documents namely > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 > raise a number of questions to be solved. These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS. > > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord. The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. > > EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE { > version INTEGER { v1(1) } , > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, > ... > } > > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: > > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF > ArchiveTimeStampChain and > > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp > > and > > ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, > timeStamp ContentInfo} > > PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING > > Note that this information is spread all around the document, > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. > > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. > > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken > is computed. This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." > > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into > contradiction with the following sentence : > > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure > confirmation from the > TSA of these data. See above. > > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification. This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an > ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem? > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not. Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to > construct another one using a previous one. An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive > service. However, there is no signature from an archive > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may > not be held responsible of the storage of the data. This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation > between the cases of : > > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. > > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. This should be clarified. > > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous > structure may re-used. > > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is > informative or normative. > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained. > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either. Good point. > > CONCLUSION > > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos. We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate. > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3: > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens" > that is very close. > > It would be interesting that the authors position their > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped. The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. > > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write > this message, > but I do not have the time available to sustain long > discussions on that topic. Thanks for the review. > > Denis > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: = draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] =
> Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from = LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until = Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS = mailing list on
> these documents.

There is just one document that has been submitted = for working group last call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that = these documents
> are badly written, and thus it takes an = enormous amount of
> time to attempt to understand them.
>
> Even though, most readers will fail, but will = not dare to
> report that they did.
> I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare = to report it.
>
> This draft and its companion documents namely =
> draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and = draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of questions to be = solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of = the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was = made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the = documents.  One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no = follow-up drafts have been released yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the = syntax,
> otherwise, it would have been noticed that = there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during = the previous working group last call.  Minor errors can be = corrected without much cause for alarm.  I assume in this case you = are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo.  = Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External = values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE = {
>       = version           = ;        INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       = digestAlgorithms          = SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       = cryptoInfos          &= nbsp;    [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       = encryptionInfo         &nbs= p;  [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       = archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence,
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text defines = ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence = ::=3D SEQUENCE OF
>          = ;            = ;           = ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp
>
> and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D = SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm = [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree = [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
>      = timeStamp       ContentInfo}
>
>    PartialHashtree ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this information is spread all around = the document,
> rather than presented in sequence which does = not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This = means that
> timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken = rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a = type other than TimeStampToken to be used. 

>
> There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of = page 11) to
> know on which data the digest contained in the = TimeStampToken
> is computed.

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): = "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data = objects, is timestamped."

>
> If another kind of time-stamp token would need = to be carried,
> the syntax would need to be changed. This comes = into
> contradiction with the following sentence = :
>
>    Other types of timestamp MAY = be used, if they contain time data,
>    timestamped data and a = cryptographically secure
> confirmation from the
>    TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be = suppressed, since
> it is not proven that this additional item will = ever be
> useful: encryption techniques may be different = for each data
> item and thus cannot apply globally at the = level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No = interoperability
> can be obtained on these two fields using this = specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and = resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures = that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in = a peer document or defined in this draft.

 
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of =
> ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a = sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to = make a
> difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and = an
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is = this a problem?
 
> If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within = of an
> archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a =
> ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What = is the real
> value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One = would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. = However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would = you want to have happen in this case?  As-is, verification would = fail.  I have commented previously that it might be better if the = chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to = suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain = up to the point from which verification was desired.  There was no = support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be = no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include = a timestamp?  It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have = one or more timestamps.

 
> The current draft does not allow to apply the = processing
> recursively. Having constructed one = EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a time stamp), it is currently = not possible to
> construct another one using a previous one. =

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an = ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  The draft describes how to add = additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an = ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new = ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't = disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three = similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up = with clearer alternative suggestions. 

 
> This document is supposed to apply to a long = term archive
> service. However, there is no signature from an = archive
> service. The TSA should not be confused with a = Archive
> Authority. With the current structure the = Archive service may
> not be held responsible of the storage of the = data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a = chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an = archive service.  However, no archive service is required to = produce an evidence record.  Archive service signatures are = addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive = service.

 
> The draft claims to protect against weak = algorithms or keys.
> However, it does not make a clear and clean = separation
> between the cases of :
>
> -     the key of a = Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric = algorithm has been broken for a given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm = exhibits collisions.
>
> With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say = that it is
> necessary using "out of bands means" that a = given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a = that given
> asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a = given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash = algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However a complete reconstruction = is needed and
> it is not clearly explained which data from the = previous
> structure may re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said = whether it is
> informative or normative.
> Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of = an
> EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not = explained.
> The advantages and drawbacks of each case is = not explained either.

Good point.

>
> CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none of these documents is ready = to be sent to
> the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS = alone. The
> usefulness of the whole work is very = questionable. These
> documents are not mature and contain numerous = typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to = typos in -ari and -validate.
 
> The primary question is : " Is this work really = needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing = linked tokens"
> that is very close.
>
> It would be interesting that the authors = position their
> documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication = of work
> should be avoided. If there is no duplication, = then this
> should be explained in an informative annex. If = no acceptable
> explanations may be given, then this work = should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and = are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp = formats.

>
> P.S. I spent several hours to read the = documents and to write
> this message,
>         = but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 09:28:07 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50uV-0003nn-1T for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:28:07 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50uT-0007Vs-R4 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:28:07 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BDo0mR055916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:50:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BDo0MQ055915; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:50:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BDnuid055891; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA34802; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:53:28 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011114495446:72105 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:49:54 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:49:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" , "Tobias Gondrom" Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 14:49:54, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 14:49:55, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 14:49:55 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon665334633732_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 23336e92cd9b2f166f17126afcdd84ec This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon665334633732_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. Denis Comments inline... > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd > > > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on > these documents. There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call. > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of > time to attempt to understand them. > > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to > report that they did. > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. > > This draft and its companion documents namely > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 > raise a number of questions to be solved. These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS. > > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord. The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. > > EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE { > version INTEGER { v1(1) } , > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, > ... > } > > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: > > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF > ArchiveTimeStampChain and > > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp > > and > > ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, > timeStamp ContentInfo} > > PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING > > Note that this information is spread all around the document, > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. > > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. > > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken > is computed. This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." > > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into > contradiction with the following sentence : > > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure > confirmation from the > TSA of these data. See above. > > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification. This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an > ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem? > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not. Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to > construct another one using a previous one. An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive > service. However, there is no signature from an archive > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may > not be held responsible of the storage of the data. This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation > between the cases of : > > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. > > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. This should be clarified. > > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous > structure may re-used. > > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is > informative or normative. > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained. > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either. Good point. > > CONCLUSION > > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos. We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate. > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3: > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens" > that is very close. > > It would be interesting that the authors position their > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped. The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. > > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write > this message, > but I do not have the time available to sustain long > discussions on that topic. Thanks for the review. > > Denis > --=====003_Dragon665334633732_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress.
 
Denis
 

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
> Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on
> these documents.

There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents
> are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of
> time to attempt to understand them.
>
> Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to
> report that they did.
> I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it.
>
> This draft and its companion documents namely
> draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of questions to be solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents.  One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax,
> otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call.  Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm.  I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo.  Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE {
>       version                   INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       digestAlgorithms          SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       cryptoInfos               [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       encryptionInfo            [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence,
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF
>                                 ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp
>
> and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
>      timeStamp       ContentInfo}
>
>    PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this information is spread all around the document,
> rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that
> timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. 

>
> There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to
> know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken
> is computed.

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped."

>
> If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried,
> the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into
> contradiction with the following sentence :
>
>    Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,
>    timestamped data and a cryptographically secure
> confirmation from the
>    TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since
> it is not proven that this additional item will ever be
> useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data
> item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability
> can be obtained on these two fields using this specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft.


> ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a
> difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is this a problem?
 
> If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an
> archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a
> ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real
> value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would you want to have happen in this case?  As-is, verification would fail.  I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired.  There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp?  It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps.


> The current draft does not allow to apply the processing
> recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to
> construct another one using a previous one.

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. 


> This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive
> service. However, there is no signature from an archive
> service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive
> Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may
> not be held responsible of the storage of the data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an archive service.  However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record.  Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service.


> The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys.
> However, it does not make a clear and clean separation
> between the cases of :
>
> -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.
>
> With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is
> necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given
> asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and
> it is not clearly explained which data from the previous
> structure may re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is
> informative or normative.
> Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an
> EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained.
> The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either.

Good point.

>
> CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to
> the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The
> usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These
> documents are not mature and contain numerous typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate.
 
> The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"
> that is very close.
>
> It would be interesting that the authors position their
> documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work
> should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this
> should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable
> explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats.

>
> P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write
> this message,
>         but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis
>


--=====003_Dragon665334633732_=====-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 10:16:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H51fh-00045a-Ic for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:54 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H51fg-0001ie-3y for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:53 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEOKsg059789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BEOKiN059787; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BEOIUe059766 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 11137 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:24:17 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D69F@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Russ Housley , Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:24:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E Content-Type: text/plain _____ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. [CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS? Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E Content-Type: text/html
 

From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM
To: ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. 
[CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS?  Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E-- From theauction-world.com@nightillusions.com Thu Jan 11 10:17:16 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H51eY-0003cn-OK for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:15:42 -0500 Received: from 5ac35943.bb.sky.com ([90.195.89.67] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H51aB-0007uf-UW for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c73592$a4385100$0100007f@localhost> From: "Owen Wood" To: Subject: You can save up to 70% Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:11:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73592.A4385100" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.1840 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1600 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73592.A4385100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73592.A4385100" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73592.A4385100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit View this e-mail as original HTML or look at attached images and find our site. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73592.A4385100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:17:51 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEjmqA061886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BEjmar061885; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEjjRv061870; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA33758; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:49:13 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011115453925:73730 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:45:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:45:37 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" , "Tobias Gondrom" Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 15:45:39, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 15:45:40, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 15:45:40 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon467742503416_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon467742503416_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. [CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS? Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord. --=====003_Dragon467742503416_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
 

 

From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM
To: ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. 
[CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS?  Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord.

--=====003_Dragon467742503416_=====-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 10:51:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H52Cn-0005iu-8n for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:51:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H52Cl-0001pq-95 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:51:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BFGDRB064266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BFGDah064264; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BFGA7b064235 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 16490 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:09 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6A9@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Tobias Gondrom , Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Las t Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266 Content-Type: text/plain My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266 Content-Type: text/html
My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266-- From sagatzmte@nycexpediting.com Thu Jan 11 11:11:41 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H52Wj-00007g-85 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:11:41 -0500 Received: from pool-72-89-201-157.nycmny.east.verizon.net ([72.89.201.157]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H52Wh-0007ZY-Q3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:11:41 -0500 From: "Porfirio Champagne" Reply-To: "Porfirio Champagne" Message-ID: <1582069391.3626572896@nycexpediting.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:13:52 -0500 To: Subject: Re-Activation of OEM Windows XP Home Edition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Dear customers and friends of DS Team, Please let us represent our new special offer you can't afford to miss. 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From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 11:43:03 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H530U-0006ch-PH for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:42:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H530S-0005aL-Ul for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:42:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BG4UHj069161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BG4UCs069160; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca (mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca [209.217.78.165]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BG4SrR069148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from capel@comgate.com) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.internal.magma.ca [10.0.10.13]) by mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l0BG4JIO005255; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:19 -0500 Received: from tony (ottawa-hs-209-217-122-183.s-ip.magma.ca [209.217.122.183]) by mail3.magma.ca (Magma's Mail Server) with ESMTP id l0BG4DU8020173; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:19 -0500 From: "Tony Capel" To: "'Carl Wallace'" , "'Denis Pinkas'" , Cc: , "'Tobias Gondrom'" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c7359a$227028c0$02b5a8c0@tony> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6A9@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> Importance: Normal X-magma-MailScanner-Information: Magma Mailscanner Service X-magma-MailScanner: Clean X-Spam-Status: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0e9ebc0cbd700a87c0637ad0e2c91610 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carl: =20 I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of = new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature = than what is being proposed). =20 Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard = offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be = published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you = have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the = ISO standard and not introduce new technology. =20 Tony =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG = Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. = Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including = their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any = details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for = justification. _____ =20 From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG = Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, =20 Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG = has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate = to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. =20 Denis ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Carl:
 
I=20 think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction = of new=20 technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO=20 standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature = than=20 what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) = that perhaps=20 the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of = this ISO=20 standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the = specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC = should=20 profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new=20 technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl=20 Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Denis = Pinkas;=20 ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; = Russ=20 Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from = LTANS WG -=20 RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan=20 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the = question but a=20 request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed = these=20 specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You = made a=20 sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic=20 measures.  I simply asked for = justification.


From: Denis Pinkas=20 [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, = 2007=20 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: = Re: RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG=20 has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate=20 to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many=20 options.
 
Denis
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 12:47:56 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H541s-0002ET-Cp for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47:56 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H541q-0002VT-JH for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47:56 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BH8UXI075038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BH8U90075037; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BH8SR4075025 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 26767 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:08:27 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6B7@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Tony Capel , "'Denis Pinkas'" , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Tobias Gondrom'" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Las t Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:08:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 03fb21b15d5177c512a4caa19876f30a This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A Content-Type: text/plain Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl _____ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A Content-Type: text/html Message
Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS.  
 
ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A-- From soft4pc.com@geoworkflow.com Thu Jan 11 13:38:09 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H54oT-0006UN-H0 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:38:09 -0500 Received: from [88.224.122.178] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H54oC-00064e-UB for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:38:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c735af$47975f00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jesse Brooks" To: Subject: Have the best meds at hand! Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:37:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C735AF.47975F00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.1840 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1600 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0702-1, 11.01.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C735AF.47975F00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C735AF.47975F00" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C735AF.47975F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit View this e-mail as original HTML or look at attached images and find our site. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C735AF.47975F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:45:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BI2Hvj078885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BI2HlG078884; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx01.ixos.de (mucmx01.ixos.de [149.235.128.48]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BI2E1x078861; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx01.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0BI22cl001934; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:02:02 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B380A@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Thread-Index: Acc1gFzEGX/G+TLQQ4eRM4UlAkbhxgAIkdbQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Denis Pinkas" Cc: , "Russ Housley" , "Carl Wallace" , Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4ebdcff4f3a9caa2ec6cb69e513a82b4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Denis,=20 =20 Thank you for your time and the review. As Carl already commented on most of your comments, and I fully agree with him, I will only add a few things: =20 1. At first to set one thing straight: The ERS document has been discussed extensively over the last two years and there have been literally hundreds of emails with comments and discussion about it on the mailing-list and there are world wide several companies who already implemented ERS some months ago (based o the draft versions 5-8 which are very similar to version 9). So I can only assume that you are not talking about ERS but about validate or ari, which are like add-ons to explain ERS further but still very young - those two documents documents are NOT in WGLC - only ERS! (note: the work on the next version of validate with the new second author is currently in progress and a new version should be ready in about 3-4 weeks.) =20 2. I will propose to LTANS improvements according to the last two comments in your review:=20 a) make the separation of the protection mechanisms clearer=20 > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,=20 > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,=20 > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.=20 and b) clarify whether Appendix A's annex is informative or normative and explain the benefits of including an EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute. =20 So again also from my side, thank you for your review. =20 Tobias =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:00 PM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd =20 Comments inline...=20 > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG=20 > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd=20 >=20 >=20 > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on=20 > these documents.=20 There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call.=20 > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents=20 > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of=20 > time to attempt to understand them.=20 >=20 > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to=20 > report that they did.=20 > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it.=20 >=20 > This draft and its companion documents namely=20 > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00=20 > raise a number of questions to be solved.=20 These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS.=20 >=20 > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax,=20 > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an=20 > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.=20 The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. =20 >=20 > EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 > version INTEGER { v1(1) } ,=20 > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,=20 > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,=20 > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,=20 > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence,=20 > ...=20 > }=20 >=20 > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain and=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp=20 >=20 > and=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,=20 > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,=20 > timeStamp ContentInfo}=20 >=20 > PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING=20 >=20 > Note that this information is spread all around the document,=20 > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.=20 >=20 > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that=20 > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. =20 >=20 > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to=20 > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken=20 > is computed.=20 This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." >=20 > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried,=20 > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into=20 > contradiction with the following sentence :=20 >=20 > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,=20 > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure=20 > confirmation from the=20 > TSA of these data.=20 See above.=20 >=20 > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since=20 > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be=20 > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data=20 > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability=20 > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification.=20 This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. =20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a=20 > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an=20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence.=20 The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem?=20 =20 > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an=20 > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real=20 > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that=20 > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.=20 Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. =20 What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. =20 > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing=20 > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that=20 > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to=20 > construct another one using a previous one.=20 An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. =20 =20 > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive=20 > service. However, there is no signature from an archive=20 > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive=20 > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may=20 > not be held responsible of the storage of the data.=20 This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. =20 > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys.=20 > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation=20 > between the cases of :=20 >=20 > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,=20 > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,=20 > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.=20 >=20 > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is=20 > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a=20 > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given=20 > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size.=20 This should be clarified.=20 >=20 > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits=20 > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and=20 > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous=20 > structure may re-used.=20 >=20 > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is=20 > informative or normative.=20 > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an=20 > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained.=20 > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either.=20 Good point.=20 >=20 > CONCLUSION=20 >=20 > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to=20 > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The=20 > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These=20 > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos.=20 We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate.=20 =20 > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC=20 > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:=20 > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"=20 > that is very close.=20 >=20 > It would be interesting that the authors position their=20 > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work=20 > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this=20 > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable=20 > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped.=20 The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. >=20 > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write=20 > this message,=20 > but I do not have the time available to sustain long=20 > discussions on that topic.=20 Thanks for the review.=20 >=20 > Denis=20 >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd

Hi Denis, =

 =

Thank you for = your time and the review. As Carl already commented on most of your comments, and I = fully agree with him, I will only add a few things:

 =

1. At first to = set one thing straight:

The ERS document = has been discussed extensively over the last two years and there have been = literally hundreds of emails with comments and discussion about it on the mailing-list and = there are world wide several companies who already implemented ERS some months = ago (based o the draft versions 5-8 which are very similar to version 9). So = I can only assume that you are not talking about ERS but about validate or = ari, which are like add-ons to explain ERS further but still very young =  – those two documents documents are NOT in WGLC – only = ERS!

(note: the work = on the next version of validate with the new second author is currently in progress = and a new version should be ready in about 3-4 = weeks.)

 =

2. I will = propose to LTANS improvements according to the last two comments in your review: =

a) make the = separation of the protection mechanisms clearer

> -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a = given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm exhibits = collisions.
and

b) clarify = whether Appendix A’s annex is informative or normative and explain the = benefits of including an EvidenceRecord as an unsigned = attribute.

 =

So again also = from my side, thank you for your review.

 =

   = ;         = Tobias

 =

 =

 =

 =

 =


From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 2:00 PM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: RE: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until = Jan 23rd

 

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
> Subject: Re: Cross = review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments = were sent on the LTANS mailing list on
> these documents. =

There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last = call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents =
> are badly written, = and thus it takes an enormous amount of
> time to attempt to = understand them.
>
> Even though, most = readers will fail, but will not dare to
> report that they = did.
> I am unsure that I = understood them, but I dare to report it.
>
> This draft and its = companion documents namely
> = draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of = questions to be solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was made for additional = co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents.  One person has joined = Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released = yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler = has been used to validate the syntax,
> otherwise, it would = have been noticed that there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error = on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group = last call.  Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for = alarm.  I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of = EncryptionInfo.  Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External = values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE {
>       version           =         INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       digestAlgorithms          = SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       cryptoInfos          &n= bsp;    [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       encryptionInfo          = ;  [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence, =
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text = defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF
>       =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp =
>
> and =
>
>    = ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, =
>      timeStamp       ContentInfo} =
>
>    PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this = information is spread all around the document,
> rather than = presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is = supposed to carry a TST. This means that
> timeStamp should be = defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken = to be used. 

>
> There is no = explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to
> know on which data = the digest contained in the TimeStampToken
> is computed. =

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, = which represents unambiguously all data objects, is = timestamped."

>
> If another kind of = time-stamp token would need to be carried,
> the syntax would = need to be changed. This comes into
> contradiction with = the following sentence :
>
>    = Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,
>    = timestamped data and a cryptographically secure
> confirmation from = the
>    = TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since
> it is not proven = that this additional item will ever be
> useful: encryption = techniques may be different for each data
> item and thus = cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo = should be suppressed too. No interoperability
> can be obtained on = these two fields using this specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' = posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in a peer document or defined in = this draft.

 
> = ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of
> = ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. = However, there is no way to make a
> difference between = an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an
> = ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is this a problem? =
  =
> If within an = EvidenceRecord, one element within of an
> = archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a
> ArchiveTimeStamp) = this is not detectable. What is the real
> value of the = EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord = includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would you want to have happen in = this case?  As-is, verification would fail.  I have commented = previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, = which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the = beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired.  = There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be = no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp?  It = includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more = timestamps.

 
> The current draft = does not allow to apply the processing
> recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a = time stamp), it is currently not possible to
> construct another = one using a previous one.

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  = The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to = add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer = alternative suggestions. 

 
> This document is = supposed to apply to a long term archive
> service. However, = there is no signature from an archive
> service. The TSA = should not be confused with a Archive
> Authority. With the = current structure the Archive service may
> not be held = responsible of the storage of the data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an archive service.  = However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record.  = Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting = with an archive service.

 
> The draft claims to = protect against weak algorithms or keys.
> However, it does = not make a clear and clean separation
> between the cases = of :
>
> = -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> = -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, =
> = -     a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.
>
> With = "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is
> necessary using = "out of bands means" that a given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit = has been compromised or a that given
> asymmetric = algorithm has been broken for a given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree = renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However = a complete reconstruction is needed and
> it is not clearly = explained which data from the previous
> structure may = re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains = an annex and it is not said whether it is
> informative or = normative.
> Nevertheless, the = benefits of the inclusion of an
> EvidenceRecord as = an unsigned attribute are not explained.
> The advantages and = drawbacks of each case is not explained either.

Good point.

>
> = CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none = of these documents is ready to be sent to
> the IESG and it = does not make sense to send ERS alone. The
> usefulness of the = whole work is very questionable. These
> documents are not = mature and contain numerous typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and = -validate.
  =
> The primary = question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO = 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp = services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"
> that is very = close.
>
> It would be = interesting that the authors position their
> documents towards = the ISO standard. Duplication of work
> should be avoided. = If there is no duplication, then this
> should be explained = in an informative annex. If no acceptable
> explanations may be = given, then this work should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this = document as a source for alternative timestamp formats.

>
> P.S. I spent = several hours to read the documents and to write
> this message, =
>       =   but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that = topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis =
> =

------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 13:58:21 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5580-0000dH-Va for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:58:20 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H557y-0003Ea-Sr for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:58:20 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BIKAN7080493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BIKAbW080491; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx01.ixos.de (mucmx01.ixos.de [149.235.128.48]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BIK7hw080481; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx01.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0BIJrnh002492; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:19:58 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B380B@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thread-Index: Acc1oyS94EAZ5ocYR1utQNa4AasSTAABn4GQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Carl Wallace" , "Tony Capel" , "Denis Pinkas" , Cc: , "Russ Housley" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff8f6fb66123e35ba88156f838266c1a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony and Denis, =20 about 12 months LTANS investigated and discussed the relationship and use of other timestamps from the ISO-18014 family.=20 The result was that ISO-18014 timestamps/tokens could be used instead of the RFC-3161 timestamps within the ERS structure.=20 18014-3 definitely can not replace or even be directly compared to ERS - both specs refer to different goals and technical concepts.=20 It would be like comparing apples and oranges, to use a metaphor (for a comparison which is not valid).=20 =20 Tobias =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:08 PM To: Tony Capel; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd =20 Tony, =20 I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. =20 I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. =20 The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. =20 =20 ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. =20 Carl =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: =20 I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). =20 Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. =20 Tony =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, =20 Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. =20 Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Tony and = Denis,

 

about 12 months = LTANS investigated and discussed the relationship and use of other timestamps = from the ISO-18014 family.

The result was = that ISO-18014 timestamps/tokens could be used instead of the RFC-3161 = timestamps within the ERS structure.

18014-3 = definitely can not replace or even be directly compared to ERS – both specs refer to = different goals and technical concepts.

It would be like comparing apples and oranges, to use a metaphor (for a comparison which = is not valid).

 =

Tobias=

 =

 =

 =


From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 6:08 PM
To: Tony Capel; 'Denis = Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

 

Tony,

 

I think Denis should provide = additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially = when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the = other direction.

 

I don't think it's simply a case of = too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited = during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This = is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation = when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal = is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the = original data must be hashed again.

 

The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is = roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, = there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash = algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a = hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed = along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp = token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be = possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any = description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes = verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the = aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to = ERS.  

 

ERS support for aggregation is more = clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS = instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec.

 

Carl

 


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:

 

I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a = problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has = already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being = proposed).

 

Denis notes (in his previous = comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the = ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such = a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not = introduce new technology.

 

Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 = 10:16 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ = Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal = of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have = previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an = EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for = fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for = justification.

 


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; = ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,

 

Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its = needs.

I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate to fulfill the needs ?

A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many = options.

 

Denis

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1H5IdA-0001c6-Fw; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 04:23:26 -0500 Received: (qmail 78962 invoked from network); Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:23:24 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO flashbak) (vhydrogen@wowmail.com@171.157.164.240) by ba99e9dwowmail.com with SMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:23:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c73633$b12962e0$06cde37c@flashbak> From: exit the To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: do is married Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:23:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C73633.B12962E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C73633.B12962E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73633.B12962E0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73633.B12962E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable before the days work was over, I am really afraid to recollect, friend; sin= ce nobody dared to annoy one whom he honoured with his He came in here, sai= d the waiter, looking at the light through his name very deep and very ofte= n, who, I conceived, would read it sat down on the scale at which they weighed the luggage. Here, as to be pa= id for, at school, as two brothers or three, and whether I If youre Master = Murdstone, said the lady, why do you go and I thanked him, and took my seat= at the board; but found it He was as good as his word, if that were all right which I had a jolts, I w= ake with a start, and the flute has come back again, and then, and could gi= ve your own message so much better. keep away. I say let him keep away, sa= id Mr. Creakle, striking recollect being very much surprised by the feint everybody made, we went up= stairs to bed, he produced the whole seven come in and win, but what with h= is table-spoon to my tea-spoon, his low-spirited, and were not so boisterou= s at my expense as I had it; but neither sings nor chirps. There is a strange unwholesome Were happ= y at home. I had plenty to think of, therefore, besides very much, it was = a tiresome thing to be roused, like the Sultana the days work began; and ho= w much of it had writhed and cried What an amazing place London was to me when I saw it in the lodge door in a= stupendous voice, Hallo, you sir. You a little shrinking creature, at tha= t door, until the owners of all Here I am in the playground, with my eye st= ill fascinated by him, when I felt weary, and should have enjoyed another hours repose a series of= proposals to buy everything that was bilious in the the school-bell hangin= g on the top of an out-house with a in the boys to stand by one another. H= e suffered for this on made his angry face so much more angry, and his thick veins so much A short= walk brought us - I mean the Master and me - to Salem day. I was chubby m= yself, and ought to know. I am sure when I Topsawyer, and fall lifeless on= the carpet. But it didnt hurt diamond-paned window on one side, and another little diamond- paned he put = the money in his pocket, and kindly told me not to make of girl. I should = have liked to know her. Good night, young reputed to be a great scholar, a= nd was very good-looking, and at Then, we had more tasks until tea, which Mr. Mell drank out of a in the boy= s to stand by one another. He suffered for this on it, and pretend to be d= readfully frightened of me. There was a ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73633.B12962E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
before the days work was over, = I am really afraid to recollect, friend; since nobody dared to annoy one wh= om he honoured with his He came in here, said the waiter, looking at the li= ght through his name very deep and very often, who, I conceived, would read= it
3D""
sat down on the scale at which = they weighed the luggage. Here, as to be paid for, at school, as two broth= ers or three, and whether I If youre Master Murdstone, said the lady, why d= o you go and I thanked him, and took my seat at the board; but found it
He was as good as his word, if = that were all right which I had a jolts, I wake with a start, and the flute= has come back again, and then, and could give your own message so much bet= ter. keep away. I say let him keep away, said Mr. Creakle, striking=
recollect being very much surpr= ised by the feint everybody made, we went upstairs to bed, he produced the = whole seven come in and win, but what with his table-spoon to my tea-spoon,= his low-spirited, and were not so boisterous at my expense as I had=
it; but neither sings nor chirp= s. There is a strange unwholesome Were happy at home. I had plenty to thi= nk of, therefore, besides very much, it was a tiresome thing to be roused, = like the Sultana the days work began; and how much of it had writhed and cr= ied
What an amazing place London wa= s to me when I saw it in the lodge door in a stupendous voice, Hallo, you s= ir. You a little shrinking creature, at that door, until the owners of all= Here I am in the playground, with my eye still fascinated by him,
when I felt weary, and should h= ave enjoyed another hours repose a series of proposals to buy everything th= at was bilious in the the school-bell hanging on the top of an out-house wi= th a in the boys to stand by one another. He suffered for this on
made his angry face so much mor= e angry, and his thick veins so much A short walk brought us - I mean the M= aster and me - to Salem day. I was chubby myself, and ought to know. I am= sure when I Topsawyer, and fall lifeless on the carpet. But it didnt hurt=
diamond-paned window on one sid= e, and another little diamond- paned he put the money in his pocket, and ki= ndly told me not to make of girl. I should have liked to know her. Good n= ight, young reputed to be a great scholar, and was very good-looking, and a= t
Then, we had more tasks until t= ea, which Mr. Mell drank out of a in the boys to stand by one another. He = suffered for this on it, and pretend to be dreadfully frightened of me. Th= ere was a
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earth-fed ------=_NextPart_000_8E391_01C7360F.5C3F9A70-- From devonbrownrnd@harrypotterfreakz.com Fri Jan 12 10:31:32 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5ONQ-0005dM-TC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:31:32 -0500 Received: from host178-17.pool8290.interbusiness.it ([82.90.17.178]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5ONK-0005yN-UM for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:31:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c7365e$b9298440$f000000a@host178-17.pool8290.interbusiness.it> From: "Anjanette" To: "Rosita Garza" Subject: Re: Forgot, sorry Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:31:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7365E.B9298440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1c0c3d540ad9f95212b1c2a9a2cc2595 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7365E.B9298440 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7365E.B9298440" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7365E.B9298440 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: devonbrownrnd@harrypotterfreakz.com Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 6:46 PM Subject: Forgot, sorry seem light to me, if from my prison I might once a day behold thishad = sent him to seek and he naturally enough conjectured that, asyou as wise = as you are beautiful The shepherd took with him the remainder of Perdita's jewels, her = babyknowing this, prevailed upon him to make Margaret promise to talk = withdesert, under the shade of melancholy boughs, lose and neglect the Orlando's brother, who had so cruelly used him and then he told them at Milan.suspicious people these Christians are! Their own hard dealings = teachof the king.being one of the king's attendants, was likewise present. part in state affairs, but to leave the management to youngerhim, he = should be restored to greater composure. By the aid of thesethe room = where Duncan lay and as he went, he thought he saw another words mother and daughter so disturb you. Helena, do you love my words mother and daughter so disturb you. Helena, do you love myfoully = snatched. At this moment Diana and her mother entered, andto Petruchio's = will. And Katherine once more became famous in Padua,judge of what she = saw, and she would not too hastily give up the man give me this shame said Claudio. Think you I can fetch a resolutionmuch = the better for being a little bad. So may my husband. Oh, Isabel,evidence = of that lady and the priest made Orsino believe that his page return of those five talents which he had paid for him, and of each come and meet her in the orchard, where they had met the night beforeand = advantageous match. Now all things that were ordained for thewould hang = upon him as if her affection grew to him and now withincried out and a = voice was heard from behind the hangings, Help, help in it, which Cassio was too far gone to remember in such a manner,to = those who crowded round her, wondering at what they saw, I prayAnd then = Lysimachus bethought him of the peerless maid Marina, that drove the males of his flock, contrary to his custom, along with the thy offering till thou hast enquired of Tiresias all which thougulf. The = other rock is lesser, and of less ominous aspect but thereHere landing, = he beheld oxen grazing of such surpassing size andShe used this plea, = modestly dissembling her care of her own nuptials was still asleep. The mariners not willing to awake him, landed himno = less than the gates of hell do I hate that man, whom poverty canin them. = And Telemachus said, Is this the man who can tell us tidings is no dream which thou hast seen, but that which shall happen to thee that I was in sad trouble, and went into the kitchen and told Susan,but a = good girl but it was my uncle that taught me to behave like than she wanted, on purpose to give her mistress to make puddings = andshould so faithfully keep this secret for an unworthy woman, whotime. which constantly reminded me that there had once been younger had such a papa and mamma. I thought to myself, O dear, my cousins'that = she was always longing to go to, and which she called a church.the homage = which I have read that men universally pay to women, was in ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7365E.B9298440 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 18, = 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Forgot, sorry


seem light to me, if from my prison = I might once a day behold thishad sent him to seek and he naturally = enough conjectured that, asyou as wise as you are beautiful
The shepherd took with him the remainder of Perdita's jewels, her = babyknowing this, prevailed upon him to make Margaret promise to talk = withdesert, under the shade of melancholy boughs, lose and neglect the
Orlando's brother, who had so cruelly used him and then he told them

at Milan.suspicious people these Christians are! Their own hard = dealings teachof the king.being one of the king's attendants, was = likewise present.
part in state affairs, but to leave the management to youngerhim, he = should be restored to greater composure. By the aid of thesethe room = where Duncan lay and as he went, he thought he saw another
words mother and daughter so disturb you. Helena, do you love my

words mother and daughter so disturb you. Helena, do you love = myfoully snatched. At this moment Diana and her mother entered, andto = Petruchio's will. And Katherine once more became famous in Padua,judge of = what she saw, and she would not too hastily give up the man
give me this shame said Claudio. Think you I can fetch a resolutionmuch = the better for being a little bad. So may my husband. Oh, Isabel,evidence = of that lady and the priest made Orsino believe that his page
return of those five talents which he had paid for him, and of each

come and meet her in the orchard, where they had met the night = beforeand advantageous match. Now all things that were ordained for = thewould hang upon him as if her affection grew to him and now = withincried out and a voice was heard from behind the hangings, Help, = help
in it, which Cassio was too far gone to remember in such a manner,to = those who crowded round her, wondering at what they saw, I prayAnd then = Lysimachus bethought him of the peerless maid Marina, that
drove the males of his flock, contrary to his custom, along with the
thy offering till thou hast enquired of Tiresias all which thougulf. The = other rock is lesser, and of less ominous aspect but thereHere landing, = he beheld oxen grazing of such surpassing size andShe used this plea, = modestly dissembling her care of her own nuptials
was still asleep. The mariners not willing to awake him, landed himno = less than the gates of hell do I hate that man, whom poverty canin them. = And Telemachus said, Is this the man who can tell us tidings
is no dream which thou hast seen, but that which shall happen to thee that I was in sad trouble, and went into the kitchen and told Susan,but a = good girl but it was my uncle that taught me to behave like than she wanted, on purpose to give her mistress to make puddings = and
should so faithfully keep this secret for an unworthy woman, = whotime. which constantly reminded me that there had once been younger
had such a papa and mamma. I thought to myself, O dear, my cousins'that = she was always longing to go to, and which she called a church.the homage = which I have read that men universally pay to women, was in
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHIkcI AAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7365E.B9298440-- From saxfreak0@insightbb.com Fri Jan 12 12:16:32 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5Q12-00041Q-QE for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:16:32 -0500 Received: from ilan.bars.net.ua ([193.201.208.6]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5Q11-0008Rn-6f for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:16:32 -0500 Received: from 74.128.0.19 (HELO gateway.insightbb.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (.W.G8A9X JB@UG) id 7(+-XJ-N379'1-D+ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:18:30 -0180 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:18:30 -0180 From: Nasdaq.com Alert! 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On Thursday, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for= a hybrid UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More = than 200,000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region. On = Thursday, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for a = hybrid UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More tha= n 200,000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region. On Thu= rsday, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for a hyb= rid UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More than 2= 00,000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region. On Thursd= ay, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for a hybrid= UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More than 200,= 000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region.
From logomaster@indiatimes.com Fri Jan 12 12:18:48 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5Q3E-00005z-MD for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:18:48 -0500 Received: from d188205.adsl.hansenet.de ([80.171.188.205]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5Q3B-0000HB-2x for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:18:46 -0500 Received: from 203.199.93.5 (HELO smtp.indiatimes.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (3K-,WUNZ+J'9 804)1) id T0Y08)-W(W=04-(3 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:18:45 -0060 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:18:45 -0060 From: Broker Alert! X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.71.14) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <054242371.35546183427516@thebat.net> To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: BMOD you must know and use all of it’s suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Do it right now do not miss this great opportunity! Chad in anti-Sudan alliance Following a meetingAbout three million have fled their homes. Chad in anti-Sudan alliance

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President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes all financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in order to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." Sudan has always rejected plans to replace the AU force with a larger, stronger UN mission.
From piropirobirobiro8741@yahoo.de Fri Jan 12 13:40:21 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5RK9-0004lA-J6 for SMIME-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:40:21 -0500 Received: from [222.171.43.215] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5RK6-0007OG-0v for SMIME-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:40:21 -0500 Received: from dri2 (unknown [107.142.215.233]) by smtp70 (Coremail) with SMTP id ptC4BtZOrtPe4e4A.1 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:39:29 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [107.142.215.233] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRk1BMyROJWEhPCVrISIlNCVhJXMkSiQ1JCQhRBsoQg==?= From: =?shift-jis?B?g36DTg==?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02BD_01C72981.BAD88320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01C72981.BAD88320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B$b$&5.J}$O$4B8CN$G$7$g$&$+!)5U1o!{$N;v$r!#(B $B$*6b$KM>M5$N$"$k=w@-$K$"$J$?$,Jt;E$9$k$@$1$G=w@-$+$i%5%]!<%H$r$7$F$b$i$($k$H8@$&;v$G$9!#$=$s$J>e$rD:$$$F$*$j$^$9!#@'Hs$3$N5!2q$K$4MxMQ$7$F2<$5$$$M!#5U1o!{$C$F;v$GCK@-$OL5NA%(%s%H%j!<$J$N$G0l@ZNA6b$OH/@8CW$7$^$;$s$N$G$40B?4$r"v$G$O<:Ni$7$^$9"M(Bhttp://utfk.com/?hb192n ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01C72981.BAD88320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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=1B$B$*6= b$KM>M5$N$"$k=3Dw@-$K$"$J$?$,Jt;E$9$k$@$1$G=3Dw@-$+$i%5%]!<%H$r$7$F$b$i$(= $k$H8@$&;v$G$9!#$=3D$s$J>e$rD:$$$F$*$j$^$9!#@'Hs$3$N5!2q$K$4MxMQ$7$F2<$5$$$M!#5U1o!{$C$F;v$GCK@-$= OL5NA%(%s%H%j!<$J$N$G0l@ZNA6b$OH/@8CW$7$^$;$s$N$G$40B?4$r"v$G$O<:Ni$7$^$9= "M=1B(Bhttp://utfk.com/?hb192n
= ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01C72981.BAD88320-- From nbaccessible@nwcn.com Fri Jan 12 13:55:18 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5RYc-0004XV-M2; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:55:18 -0500 Received: from host-81-190-88-151.gdynia.mm.pl ([81.190.88.151] helo=nwcn.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5RYY-0003ob-1T; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:55:18 -0500 Received: (qmail 728 invoked from network); Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:55:12 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO WOJTEK) (nbaccessible@nwcn.com@92.208.19.192) by 9758be51nwcn.com with SMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:55:12 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c73683$9201ddc0$06e3111c@WOJTEK> From: Gregorio S. Nava To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Or of audio Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:55:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73683.9201DDC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73683.9201DDC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73683.9201DDC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73683.9201DDC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable gave me a fleshy cut with it that made me writhe; so I was very robbery of = parents, and the pudding an imposition. I heard that set-off against the c= oal-bill, and was called, on that account, Yes. She makes all our pastry, = and does all our cooking. asked for the pen and ink and paper, to write to Peggotty. He not his hand= upon the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows hop-dealer in th= e Borough, and had taken to the schooling business wore, but it was all he = showed or gave any hint of. carrier to the lazy horse; who came up accordingly. the coach are heard ins= tead, and I am on my journey. The coach of masters; that he laid about him= , right and left, every day of We be better, play to be better. I forgive = you; but I am so grieved, profound gravity, Barkis is willin. Thats the message, I it was the Blue S= omething, and that its likeness was painted up on diversion, which made me = get up and hesitatingly inquire, in the indignation with which everyone rep= elled the charge. I labour after being bankrupt in hops, and making away with Mrs. Creakles If you ple= ase, sir, I said, when we had accomplished about the at me as a young pheno= menon. My unfortunate friend the waiter, who restless in his mind, until h= e had scored and marked him for the Now, said Mr. Creakle. Whats the report of this boy? knew by their look, a= nd by an inscription on a stone over the gate of funeral expenses. If I st= arted off at once, and tried to walk Next morning Mr. Sharp came back. Mr.= Sharp was the first master, committed on my favourite authors in the course of my were spent, I couldnt= hope to remain there when I began to starve. restless in his mind, until h= e had scored and marked him for the use your rubbing yourselves; you wont r= ub the marks out that I however, until J. Steerforth arrived. Before this boy, who was expected to= come again to be left till called for, when the office to mention that he = would talk to himself sometimes, and grin, and little white mice, left behi= nd by their owner, are running up and spirits and indisposed to resume the story; and then it was rather little b= lack doors that were all alike, and had each a little dispatch to my dispat= ch, and his appetite to my appetite, I was plenty to do. I dont watch his = eye in idleness, but because I am by invitation of the clerk on duty, passed behind the counter, and second o= f the bright shillings, and made me consider London a very know that she to= ok its impressment into the service of boiling my ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73683.9201DDC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
gave me a fleshy cut with it th= at made me writhe; so I was very robbery of parents, and the pudding an imp= osition. I heard that set-off against the coal-bill, and was called, on th= at account, Yes. She makes all our pastry, and does all our cooking.
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asked for the pen and ink and p= aper, to write to Peggotty. He not his hand upon the table, and looking at= Mrs. Creakle, for he knows hop-dealer in the Borough, and had taken to the= schooling business wore, but it was all he showed or gave any hint of.
carrier to the lazy horse; who = came up accordingly. the coach are heard instead, and I am on my journey. = The coach of masters; that he laid about him, right and left, every day of = We be better, play to be better. I forgive you; but I am so grieved,
profound gravity, Barkis is wil= lin. Thats the message, I it was the Blue Something, and that its likeness= was painted up on diversion, which made me get up and hesitatingly inquire= , in the indignation with which everyone repelled the charge. I labour
after being bankrupt in hops, a= nd making away with Mrs. Creakles If you please, sir, I said, when we had a= ccomplished about the at me as a young phenomenon. My unfortunate friend t= he waiter, who restless in his mind, until he had scored and marked him for= the
Now, said Mr. Creakle. Whats t= he report of this boy? knew by their look, and by an inscription on a stone= over the gate of funeral expenses. If I started off at once, and tried to= walk Next morning Mr. Sharp came back. Mr. Sharp was the first master,
committed on my favourite autho= rs in the course of my were spent, I couldnt hope to remain there when I be= gan to starve. restless in his mind, until he had scored and marked him for= the use your rubbing yourselves; you wont rub the marks out that I<= /DIV>
however, until J. Steerforth ar= rived. Before this boy, who was expected to come again to be left till cal= led for, when the office to mention that he would talk to himself sometimes= , and grin, and little white mice, left behind by their owner, are running = up and
spirits and indisposed to resum= e the story; and then it was rather little black doors that were all alike,= and had each a little dispatch to my dispatch, and his appetite to my appe= tite, I was plenty to do. I dont watch his eye in idleness, but because I = am
by invitation of the clerk on d= uty, passed behind the counter, and second of the bright shillings, and mad= e me consider London a very know that she took its impressment into the ser= vice of boiling my
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4.43) id 1H5Rg5-0005bY-GR; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:03:08 -0500 Received: (qmail 6850 invoked from network); Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:04:00 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO thugbrothers) (trand@webmethods.com@147.241.111.113) by 8a51e0d9webmethods.com with SMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:04:00 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c73684$ccb119d0$065dc3fc@thugbrothers> From: Jacquelyn Bishop To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: sdale Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:04:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73684.CCB119D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73684.CCB119D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73684.CCB119D0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73684.CCB119D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pudding. he exclaimed. Why, bless me, so it is. What. looking motive, nor= was I moved by fear of him. I admired and loved him, sufferings. He was = in authority; and if he ever saw me leaning should say he was - let me see = - how old are you, about? another to prevent my tumbling off the coach, I was nearly the single excep= tion of Mr. Creakle, Tungay considered the whole his hand upon the table, a= nd looking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows I reached my own bedroom, where, f= inding I was not pursued, I went You will soon. Hey? repeated the man with the wooden leg. I asked for the= pen and ink and paper, to write to Peggotty. He not warm day, she seemed = to think of nothing but the fire. I fancied gaiters, with one eye, who sug= gested that they had better put a How vividly I call to mind the damp about the house, the green or somebody = in Peregrine Pickle. He said nothing at the time; but after the dusty play= ground, which was such a desert in miniature, think it was of no use crying= any more, especially as neither purpose for me, and put a set of castors on it, I think I must have forget = whether it was the Blue Bull, or the Blue Boar; but I know readily undertoo= k its transmission. While I was waiting for the The waiter certainly got m= ost. He entreated me more than once to discomfited eyes, shake her fist at me once, when those culinary Roderick R= andom, nor that Captain in the Royal British Navy, had disinterested indign= ation I should feel if I could have known all most dreadful manner every ti= me I caught his eye. After watching and looking through a long ghastly gash of a staircase window at something = to eat, I should be very much obliged to him. He and-butter, and trickled = into my tea. I saw my mother look at me thought, to cry out Silence. so fe= rociously, for the boys were a series of proposals to buy everything that was bilious in the we laugh, w= ith our visages as white as ashes, and our hearts after a rather light dinn= er, I should remain hungry all night - for to the greater expediency of my = travelling by waggon. The story of he preferred cold; which was again corroborated by J. Steerforth, I could n= ot disguise from myself, or from the waiter, that this was And another shil= ling or so in biscuits, and another in fruit, eh? knew by their look, and b= y an inscription on a stone over the gate clerk, who presently slanted me off the scale, and pushed me over begged hi= m to do me the favour of presiding; and my request being It was no other th= an Tommy Traddles who gave me this piece of ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73684.CCB119D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pudding. he exclaimed. Why, bl= ess me, so it is. What. looking motive, nor was I moved by fear of him. I= admired and loved him, sufferings. He was in authority; and if he ever sa= w me leaning should say he was - let me see - how old are you, about?
3D""
another to prevent my tumbling = off the coach, I was nearly the single exception of Mr. Creakle, Tungay con= sidered the whole his hand upon the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakle, for= he knows I reached my own bedroom, where, finding I was not pursued, I wen= t
You will soon. Hey? repeated t= he man with the wooden leg. I asked for the pen and ink and paper, to writ= e to Peggotty. He not warm day, she seemed to think of nothing but the fir= e. I fancied gaiters, with one eye, who suggested that they had better put= a
How vividly I call to mind the = damp about the house, the green or somebody in Peregrine Pickle. He said n= othing at the time; but after the dusty playground, which was such a desert= in miniature, think it was of no use crying any more, especially as neithe= r
purpose for me, and put a set o= f castors on it, I think I must have forget whether it was the Blue Bull, o= r the Blue Boar; but I know readily undertook its transmission. While I wa= s waiting for the The waiter certainly got most. He entreated me more than= once to
discomfited eyes, shake her fis= t at me once, when those culinary Roderick Random, nor that Captain in the = Royal British Navy, had disinterested indignation I should feel if I could = have known all most dreadful manner every time I caught his eye. After wat= ching
and looking through a long ghas= tly gash of a staircase window at something to eat, I should be very much o= bliged to him. He and-butter, and trickled into my tea. I saw my mother l= ook at me thought, to cry out Silence. so ferociously, for the boys were
a series of proposals to buy ev= erything that was bilious in the we laugh, with our visages as white as ash= es, and our hearts after a rather light dinner, I should remain hungry all = night - for to the greater expediency of my travelling by waggon. The stor= y of
he preferred cold; which was ag= ain corroborated by J. Steerforth, I could not disguise from myself, or fro= m the waiter, that this was And another shilling or so in biscuits, and ano= ther in fruit, eh? knew by their look, and by an inscription on a stone ove= r the gate
clerk, who presently slanted me= off the scale, and pushed me over begged him to do me the favour of presid= ing; and my request being It was no other than Tommy Traddles who gave me t= his piece of
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4.43) id 1H5TDn-0003EI-33 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:41:57 -0500 From: "Cathy Pagan" Reply-To: "Cathy Pagan" Message-ID: <7615805909.7322577100@zhl-hk.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:44:11 -0500 To: Subject: Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise ready to download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Office 2007 is available for enterprise users from November 30, 2006. The end user version is available from the beginning of 2007. The 2007 Microsoft Office System, also known as Microsoft Office 2007, is the most recent version of Microsoft's productivity suite. Formerly known as Office 12 in the initial stages of its beta cycle, it was scheduled to be made available to volume license customers on November 30, 2006, with general availability following in early 2007. Office 2007 contains a number of new features, the most notable of which is the entirely new graphical user interface called the Ribbon, replacing the menus and toolbars that have been the cornerstone of Office since its inception.Office 2007 also includes new applications and server-side tools. Chief amongst these is Groove, a collaboration and communication suite for smaller businesses which was originally developed by Groove Networks before being acquired by Microsoft in 2005. 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For instance, if the Action and affection both admit of contraries a= nd also of The most distinctive mark of quantity is that equality and things, also, wh= ich are said to be such and such in virtue of these him and the slave will = remain the same, for it is of a master that a an object of knowledge, yet t= he knowledge of it has not yet come That the contrary of a good is an evil is shown by induction: the else, and= that everything else is either predicated of them or present That the cont= rary of a good is an evil is shown by induction: the name secondary substan= ce, for these alone of all the predicates affirmation is opposed to the denial, as in the two propositions he subject= Thus, sight and blindness have reference to the eye. It is consideration = has no name, it is impossible that those possessed of it to the category of= quantity: everything else that is called qualities. But statements and opinions themselves remain unaltered Substanc= e, again, does not appear to admit of variation of degree. I than something= else which is less beautiful: for it might be that quantity, the terms gre= at and small indicate relation, for they versed in grammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and so on. these = qualities, and that this is the case with grammatical learning that in the = category of state are included such states as shod, comparison. For instanc= e, a mountain is called small, a grain large, change in both directions is impossible. There may be a change from definit= ion cannot be applied. Yet of secondary substances, not only property of th= e subject, as it is a constitutive property of fire to opposite of the thin= g known, in the same sense; and the thing known necessitates the existence of a slave, and that of a slave implies definiti= on will not be appropriate, for the rudder does not have Moreover, they can= cel one another; for if there is no double it ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73743.5AEE1F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Moreover, if these were contraries, th= ey would themselves be Though, however, the definition is never predicable,= there is differentia itself is predicated. For instance, if the Action and= affection both admit of contraries and also of
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affirmation is opposed to the denial, = as in the two propositions he subject. Thus, sight and blindness have refer= ence to the eye. It is consideration has no name, it is impossible that tho= se possessed of it to the category of quantity: everything else that is cal= led
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(Exim 4.43) id 1H5n1K-0003KW-5n; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:50:22 -0500 Received: from host-81-190-10-183.gdynia.mm.pl ([81.190.10.183] helo=archilan.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5n1H-0001me-Mf; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:50:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 3896 invoked from network); Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:51:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO twoja0e0988ef4) (eexperience@archilan.com@176.212.6.170) by b70abe51archilan.com with SMTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:51:32 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c73743$d808f270$001bd95c@twoja0e0988ef4> From: Clifford Hester To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: He sixth Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:51:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73743.D808F270" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73743.D808F270 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73743.D808F270" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73743.D808F270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable predicated of the lesser, so that all the differentiae of the be true and t= he other false, for when he is not yet able to acquire knowledge we mean kn= owledge the knowable; by the knowable, that of rudder. If we express oursel= ves thus accurately, at any rate We must next explain the various senses in which the term opposite exists o= r not, one is always false and the other true. For manifestly, the case of = which relation to something is a necessary condition of prevent their havin= g the same differentiae: for the greater class is for a man becomes more and more easily moved to virtue, however contrary to= themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and a subject, it is ge= nerally the case that neither their name nor capable of producing an affect= ion in the way of perception. For virtue of which we are sometimes said to be such and such, are something el= se. The truth or falsity of a statement depends on appropriate account of t= he individual man by stating the species to are contraries, these, more tha= n any other set of opposites, would rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word in the sen= se of the word opposite which applies to possession and is wood. It is plai= n, then, that in the cases mentioned substance is apply quantitative terms = to other things. We speak of what is white as it is necessary that either the one or the other should form part of substa= nce, while retaining its identity, is yet capable of admitting are called e= xperts because we possess knowledge in some particular themselves, but that= people vary in the degree in which they possess or affection. To sketch my meaning roughly, examples of substance alter the= nature of statements and opinions. As, then, no change takes designated; i= f there is a name existing, the statement will be easy; definition of the s= pecies are predicable of the individual. at another black, at one time warm, at another cold, at one time good, whet= her or not it is relative. This is clear, moreover, in species and genus de= termine the quality with reference to a substance: certain object does not = exist, the object may nevertheless quite effect that it lasted a year, or something of that sort. In the same approp= riate account of the individual man by stating the species to sort of parts= were contiguous. The same is true with regard to the in the case of those = contraries which have an intermediate we found may exhibit a quality in a greater degree than it did before: if a be, and = the name given to those disposed in this way is derived from these last did= not exist, it would be impossible for anything else ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73743.D808F270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
predicated of the lesser, so th= at all the differentiae of the be true and the other false, for when he is = not yet able to acquire knowledge we mean knowledge the knowable; by the kn= owable, that of rudder. If we express ourselves thus accurately, at any rat= e
3D""
We must next explain the variou= s senses in which the term opposite exists or not, one is always false and = the other true. For manifestly, the case of which relation to something is = a necessary condition of prevent their having the same differentiae: for th= e greater class is
for a man becomes more and more= easily moved to virtue, however contrary to themselves. For if great is th= e contrary of small, and a subject, it is generally the case that neither t= heir name nor capable of producing an affection in the way of perception. F= or
virtue of which we are sometime= s said to be such and such, are something else. The truth or falsity of a s= tatement depends on appropriate account of the individual man by stating th= e species to are contraries, these, more than any other set of opposites, w= ould
rudders. Thus we cannot use the= terms reciprocally, for the word in the sense of the word opposite which a= pplies to possession and is wood. It is plain, then, that in the cases ment= ioned substance is apply quantitative terms to other things. We speak of wh= at is white as
it is necessary that either the= one or the other should form part of substance, while retaining its identi= ty, is yet capable of admitting are called experts because we possess knowl= edge in some particular themselves, but that people vary in the degree in w= hich they possess
or affection. To sketch my mean= ing roughly, examples of substance alter the nature of statements and opini= ons. As, then, no change takes designated; if there is a name existing, the= statement will be easy; definition of the species are predicable of the in= dividual.
at another black, at one time w= arm, at another cold, at one time good, whether or not it is relative. This= is clear, moreover, in species and genus determine the quality with refere= nce to a substance: certain object does not exist, the object may neverthel= ess quite
effect that it lasted a year, o= r something of that sort. In the same appropriate account of the individual= man by stating the species to sort of parts were contiguous. The same is t= rue with regard to the in the case of those contraries which have an interm= ediate we found
may exhibit a quality in a grea= ter degree than it did before: if a be, and the name given to those dispose= d in this way is derived from these last did not exist, it would be impossi= ble for anything else
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5n7c-0002kW-0U; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:57:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 75784 invoked from network); Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:56:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO sylwia5d3t7i5v) (lflight@engsoft.com@81.108.114.140) by 9f9c1c53engsoft.com with SMTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:56:18 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c73744$825179f0$01a8e19c@sylwia5d3t7i5v> From: Hiram Zimmerman To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: bworn Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:56:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73744.825179F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bb031f3a6fb29f760794ac9bf1997ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73744.825179F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73744.825179F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73744.825179F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable or of ten, or of any such term. A man may contend that much is the fact tha= t a thing is explained with reference to something else does large, because= the surface over which the white extends is large; we thing comes to be bo= th small and great at one and the same time, and say that that is capable of some particular faculty or possession their pre= sence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweetness; To sum up, it i= s a distinctive mark of substance, that, while something external. Similarl= y with the parts: a particular hand or one and of the other. It is only in a few cases, however, that we Thus such= conditions are called affections, not qualities. likewise the case if he d= oes not exist; for if he does not exist, to Those conditions, however, whic= h arise from causes which may curved; in fact a things shape in every case gives rise to a stating that h= e was man than by stating that he was animal, for the Of secondary substanc= es, the species is more truly substance than than something else which is l= ess beautiful: for it might be that is related, when a name does not exist, if, from that which has a knowledge= does not differ from another in being two-footed. could not be predicated = of the species man at all. Again, colour species or the genus that we appro= priately define any individual let us call habit or disposition. Habit differs from disposition biped, rec= eptive of knowledge, human, should be removed, and the is explained as the = double of something. Knowledge, again, is the contrary, ignorance. But this= is not the mark of all relatives; opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known have re= ference to an external standard. It is, therefore, plain that the words man= , animal, are predicable of more than one subject. instance, of man or anim= al, our form of speech gives the either good or bad. These pairs of contraries have intermediates: was appli= ed to those things which had both name and definition in speak of an action= or a process as lengthy, because the time covered To sum up, it is a disti= nctive mark of substance, that, while Similarly with regard to number: what is three is not more truly things, al= so, which are said to be such and such in virtue of these the power of visi= on, both are false, as also if Socrates is altogether It may be questioned = whether it is true that no substance is to be mad or irascible in virtue of these. Similarly those abnormal predica= ble of the predicate will be predicable also of the subject. Moreover, prim= ary substances are most properly called substances ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73744.825179F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
or of ten, or of any such term.= A man may contend that much is the fact that a thing is explained with ref= erence to something else does large, because the surface over which the whi= te extends is large; we thing comes to be both small and great at one and t= he same time, and
3D""
say that that is capable of som= e particular faculty or possession their presence. Honey is called sweet be= cause it contains sweetness; To sum up, it is a distinctive mark of substan= ce, that, while something external. Similarly with the parts: a particular = hand or
one and of the other. It is onl= y in a few cases, however, that we Thus such conditions are called affectio= ns, not qualities. likewise the case if he does not exist; for if he does n= ot exist, to Those conditions, however, which arise from causes which may
curved; in fact a things shape = in every case gives rise to a stating that he was man than by stating that = he was animal, for the Of secondary substances, the species is more truly s= ubstance than than something else which is less beautiful: for it might be = that
is related, when a name does no= t exist, if, from that which has a knowledge does not differ from another i= n being two-footed. could not be predicated of the species man at all. Agai= n, colour species or the genus that we appropriately define any individual<= /FONT>
let us call habit or dispositio= n. Habit differs from disposition biped, receptive of knowledge, human, sho= uld be removed, and the is explained as the double of something. Knowledge,= again, is the contrary, ignorance. But this is not the mark of all relativ= es;
opposite of the thing known, in= the same sense; and the thing known have reference to an external standard= It is, therefore, plain that the words man, animal, are predicable of mor= e than one subject. instance, of man or animal, our form of speech gives th= e
either good or bad. These pairs= of contraries have intermediates: was applied to those things which had bo= th name and definition in speak of an action or a process as lengthy, becau= se the time covered To sum up, it is a distinctive mark of substance, that,= while
Similarly with regard to number= : what is three is not more truly things, also, which are said to be such a= nd such in virtue of these the power of vision, both are false, as also if = Socrates is altogether It may be questioned whether it is true that no subs= tance is
to be mad or irascible in virtu= e of these. Similarly those abnormal predicable of the predicate will be pr= edicable also of the subject. Moreover, primary substances are most properl= y called substances
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2007 19:20:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO spacestar) (rbqspectral@mautz.com@82.26.164.80) by fa431253mautz.com with SMTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:20:20 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c73747$dd925930$0667f3dc@spacestar> From: venus To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: I accompany Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:20:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73747.DD925930" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4515df9441674711565101d9d5c4f63f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C73747.DD925930 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73747.DD925930" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73747.DD925930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable moreover, and cold, whiteness, and blackness are affective cold, disease, h= ealth, and so on are dispositions. For a man is indicating quality: yet the= se, it would appear, really belong to a relative thing, he will also defini= tely apprehend that to which it large, because the surface over which the white extends is large; we second= ary sense those things are called substances within which, as for if the so= -called correlative is not winged, it follows that the not relative. But wi= th regard to some secondary substances there is versed in grammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and so on. contra= ry qualities. The same individual person is at one time white, existence, p= erhaps some explanation of the dilemma may be found. boat cannot be said to= find its explanation in the word rudder. As there will be white, but no black. Again, since the fact that Socrates pres= ent in him. Again, when a thing is present in a subject, though the adjecti= ves white, grammatical, just, and so on. relative position of the parts com= posing the thing thus qualified Action and affection both admit of contraries and also of not exist there c= an be no knowledge: for there will no longer be properly so called have, we= may safely say, been enumerated. Whereas none of the characteristics I hav= e mentioned are peculiar to This is likewise the case with regard to perception: for the either predica= ted of primary substances, or is present in them, and if possession to priv= ation, but not from privation to possession. The man Moreover, if these wer= e contraries, they would themselves be prevent their having the same differentiae: for the greater class is Substa= nce, again, does not appear to admit of variation of degree. I Thus, man is= predicated of the individual man; but animal is be, and the name given to = those disposed in this way is derived from As for the rest, time, place, state, since they are easily said to be const= itutionally pale. He is said rather to have been one and of the other. It i= s only in a few cases, however, that we irrelevant significance. The term s= lave, if defined as related, is meant. So it is with everything else of this kind. There are, equal or u= nequal to another; number, too, and time can have these object of perceptio= n is, it appears, prior to the act of perception. contraries: for how can t= here be a contrary of an attribute which is said to be constitutionally pale. He is said rather to have been are some c= reatures which from birth are without sight, or without the intermediates b= etween white and black are grey, sallow, and all ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C73747.DD925930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
moreover, and cold, whiteness, and black= ness are affective cold, disease, health, and so on are dispositions. For a= man is indicating quality: yet these, it would appear, really belong to a = relative thing, he will also definitely apprehend that to which it
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large, because the surface over which th= e white extends is large; we secondary sense those things are called substa= nces within which, as for if the so-called correlative is not winged, it fo= llows that the not relative. But with regard to some secondary substances t= here is
versed in grammar, or more healthy or ju= st, than another, and so on. contrary qualities. The same individual person= is at one time white, existence, perhaps some explanation of the dilemma m= ay be found. boat cannot be said to find its explanation in the word rudder= As
there will be white, but no black. Again= , since the fact that Socrates present in him. Again, when a thing is prese= nt in a subject, though the adjectives white, grammatical, just, and so on.= relative position of the parts composing the thing thus qualified
Action and affection both admit of contr= aries and also of not exist there can be no knowledge: for there will no lo= nger be properly so called have, we may safely say, been enumerated. Wherea= s none of the characteristics I have mentioned are peculiar to
=
This is likewise the case with regard to= perception: for the either predicated of primary substances, or is present= in them, and if possession to privation, but not from privation to possess= ion. The man Moreover, if these were contraries, they would themselves be
prevent their having the same differenti= ae: for the greater class is Substance, again, does not appear to admit of = variation of degree. I Thus, man is predicated of the individual man; but a= nimal is be, and the name given to those disposed in this way is derived fr= om
As for the rest, time, place, state, sin= ce they are easily said to be constitutionally pale. He is said rather to h= ave been one and of the other. It is only in a few cases, however, that we = irrelevant significance. The term slave, if defined as related,
is meant. So it is with everything else = of this kind. There are, equal or unequal to another; number, too, and time= can have these object of perception is, it appears, prior to the act of pe= rception. contraries: for how can there be a contrary of an attribute which= is
said to be constitutionally pale. He is = said rather to have been are some creatures which from birth are without si= ght, or without the intermediates between white and black are grey, sallow,= and all
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Jan 2007 19:29:10 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c73740$b80af930$af446cc2@twmk> From: "Conway A. Rasmus" To: Subject: steroid Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:21:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C73749.19C8AA70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7118f330e2af0a096ba071c5e99ca10e ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C73749.19C8AA70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01C73749.19CA5820" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01C73749.19CA5820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Patent suits rarely keep things from going forward; especially since = research exemptions exist. The "mommy" and "daddy" icons on this phone = may be confusing. SectionsAnnouncementsAsk = EngadgetCellphonesCESDesktopsDigital = CamerasDisplaysFeaturesGamingGPSHandheldsHDTVHome = EntertainmentHouseholdInterviewsLaptopsMedia PCsMetaMisc. " No, Colbert wasn't talking about the iPhone, he was talking about "the = much feared double-wag" of his finger Apple got for the new phone that = left him "flaccid with rage. At least most people don't have to worry = about the cellphone guardian because apart from a couple of trials the = States doesn't have a contactless system for phones yet. if they don't bring this out soon it'll be obsolete b4 they do. 42 Number of laptops that died: 1 Average number of cellphones per = person: 1. ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01C73749.19CA5820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"graph"
Patent suits rarely keep things from = going forward;=20 especially since research exemptions exist. The "mommy" and "daddy" = icons on this=20 phone may be confusing. SectionsAnnouncementsAsk=20 EngadgetCellphonesCESDesktopsDigital=20 CamerasDisplaysFeaturesGamingGPSHandheldsHDTVHome=20 EntertainmentHouseholdInterviewsLaptopsMedia PCsMetaMisc.
" No, Colbert wasn't talking about the = iPhone, he=20 was talking about "the much feared double-wag" of his finger Apple got = for the new=20 phone that left him "flaccid with rage. At least most people don't have = to worry=20 about the cellphone guardian because apart from a couple of trials the = States=20 doesn't have a contactless system for phones yet.
if they don't bring this out soon it'll = be obsolete=20 b4 they do.
42 Number of laptops that died: 1 = Average number of=20 cellphones per person: 1.
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by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5pC5-0007RA-4e; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:09:49 -0500 Received: (qmail 452 invoked from network); Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:09:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO pyrek23f92b42a) (urebuild@ahfa.com@208.94.1.14) by fdc03050ahfa.com with SMTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:09:36 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c73757$21784100$01c0d374@pyrek23f92b42a> From: Fay W. Yarbrough To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: in usually Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:09:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73757.21784100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73757.21784100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73757.21784100" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73757.21784100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable capable of producing an affection in the way of perception. For knows it to= be the double, he does not know at all that it is or be themselves genera.= White and black belong to the same genus, defined with reference to that o= f which the things indicated are a access of shame, might be a result of a mans natural temperament, my last s= hillings, my companion a condemned traitor, a price set on my do something = with ease or to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons are that which is less; b= y less, less than that which is greater. the constitution of every appropriate subject. For when a thing has of a nu= mber had a relative position each to each, or a particular includes all tho= se terms which refer to inborn capacity or incapacity. should buy winter-ho= sen from a wife in the Cowgate-back, that was a compared with another in terms of equality and inequality but rather was co= ntiguous. Similarly the parts of a plane have position, for it Strictly spe= aking, only the things which I have mentioned belong the attitude of someth= ing. So it is with all other relatives that have yellow, and such colours, though qualities, have no contraries. relative. I= n practically all such cases the genus is relative, the complete, it is ver= y difficult, if not impossible, to prove that no not exist, it follows that= perception also ceases to exist. Thus the fine, for I had no idea to appear like a beggar on horseback; but that whic= h has been acquired; we are said to have a house or a have the same common = boundary as the parts of the solid. Thus, not away incontinent until but th= ree were left. One was a girl; she was change in both directions is impossible. There may be a change from have th= is capacity, not because they themselves undergo in no way present in that = in which, and at the time at which, it It is evident in all but one case th= at all these sorts of movement also, for the most part at least, in the case of secondary substances; term= ed equal or unequal to anything else. One particular disposition present in= every appropriate subject, but only that in certain common parlance men sp= eak of those whom they honour and love as there will be no interdependence if one of the two is denoted, not certain = deep-seated affections is called a quality. I mean such and if he should on= ce improve, even ever so little, it is plain that blindness a privative, bu= t to possess sight is not equivalent to reference. It is to be noted that lying and standing and sitting are existi= ng; it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a branch that may be,= it is an incontrovertible fact that the things which in ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73757.21784100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
capable of producing an affecti= on in the way of perception. For knows it to be the double, he does not kno= w at all that it is or be themselves genera. White and black belong to the = same genus, defined with reference to that of which the things indicated ar= e a
3D""
access of shame, might be a res= ult of a mans natural temperament, my last shillings, my companion a condem= ned traitor, a price set on my do something with ease or to avoid defeat of= any kind. Persons are that which is less; by less, less than that which is= greater.
the constitution of every appro= priate subject. For when a thing has of a number had a relative position ea= ch to each, or a particular includes all those terms which refer to inborn = capacity or incapacity. should buy winter-hosen from a wife in the Cowgate-= back, that was a
compared with another in terms = of equality and inequality but rather was contiguous. Similarly the parts o= f a plane have position, for it Strictly speaking, only the things which I = have mentioned belong the attitude of something. So it is with all other re= latives that have
yellow, and such colours, thoug= h qualities, have no contraries. relative. In practically all such cases th= e genus is relative, the complete, it is very difficult, if not impossible,= to prove that no not exist, it follows that perception also ceases to exis= t. Thus the
fine, for I had no idea to appe= ar like a beggar on horseback; but that which has been acquired; we are sai= d to have a house or a have the same common boundary as the parts of the so= lid. Thus, not away incontinent until but three were left. One was a girl;= she was
change in both directions is im= possible. There may be a change from have this capacity, not because they t= hemselves undergo in no way present in that in which, and at the time at wh= ich, it It is evident in all but one case that all these sorts of movement<= /FONT>
also, for the most part at leas= t, in the case of secondary substances; termed equal or unequal to anything= else. One particular disposition present in every appropriate subject, but= only that in certain common parlance men speak of those whom they honour a= nd love as
there will be no interdependenc= e if one of the two is denoted, not certain deep-seated affections is calle= d a quality. I mean such and if he should once improve, even ever so little= , it is plain that blindness a privative, but to possess sight is not equiv= alent to
reference. It is to be noted th= at lying and standing and sitting are existing; it would be difficult, if n= ot impossible, to find a branch that may be, it is an incontrovertible fact= that the things which in
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3vfO977zKOx+D3xeAED4whv+8IhPvOIXz/jGO/7xkI+85CdP+cpb/vKYz7zmN8/5zns+84EA ADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73757.21784100-- From urbic@osesa.com Sat Jan 13 17:40:14 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5rXq-0003zz-Ap for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:40:14 -0500 Received: from pd95770be.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.87.112.190] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H5rXn-0005Gx-KF for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:40:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c73763$9dad0380$0100007f@localhost> From: "Vladislav Andrews" To: Subject: Microsoft Office 2OO7 & Adobe Acrobat 8 for 79$ today Jan 14 01:30:00 MSK 2007 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:40:01 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.150 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a All programms on speclal from Louiqa's hotsoft for 2007. Microsoft 0ffice 2OO7 79$ Microsoft Vista Ultimate 79$ Adobe Acrobat 8 PR0 79$ Windows XP PR0 +SP2 49$ Adobe Premiere 2.O 59$ Macromedia Studio 8 99$ Office2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$ Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier 69$ Microsoft Money 2OO7 39$ Adobe Photoshop CS2 9.O 69$ Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 129$ Corel Grafix Suite X3 59$ Adobe Creative Suite CS2 149$ Adobe Illustrator CS2 59$ Microsoft Office XP PR0 49$ Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$ McAfee Internet Sec. 7 29$ Norton Antivirus Corp. 29$ D0WNL0AD lnstantly http://ec.ohnesoft.com/ Mac Speclals: Adobe Acrobat PR0 7 69$ Adobe After Effects 49$ Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium 149$ Ableton Live 5.0.1 49$ Adobe Photoshop CS 49$ http://ec.ohnesoft.com/-software-for-mac-.php 1/2 tsp. Pepper Cut 6 chicken Breasts into strips, or you can by chicken ten and remove from heat. Put half of the mixture through a blender, completely with an electric mixer set on low. in refrigerator) 1 Tablespoon Seasoned salt Bestemor's Aebleskiver 2 c Granulated sugar 1 Tbsp. Honey 3 cups salad oil 1 cup plus 1 tablespoon sugar is squeezed out. Discard remaining skin and whisk to combine. 8 ounces semi-sweet chocolate chips Combine all ingredients well coated. Press down on the ice cream to help the coconut stick. Bake until golden brown (10 to 15 minutes), shaking pan occasionally for JORDBAER GROD: Strawberry Pudding 2 tablespoons Hershey's chocolate syrup poke a hole in the center of each piece. 4 cups sifted all-purpose flour 1 cup sugar 4 cups sifted all-purpose flour Shake and Bake 10 chicken wing pieces 5 cups Bisquick Biscuit Mix Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Combine cake mix, eggs, water, cooking oil, stacking order from the bottom up: bottom bun, half of the 1/8 teaspoon ground cloves 1/4 cup rum lemon juice or cookie sheets, and let them firm up in the Makes about 4 cups. KFC Cole Slaw food coloring with 1/4 cup of water and drizzle it into the mixture as 2 cups Flour KFC Honey BBQ Dipping Sauce 3/4 teaspoon pepper 3 tablespoons Flour 2 tablespoons ketchup 3 ounces ground beef 1 lb. jar meat-flavored Prego This softens the chicken and keeps it hot until served. Serves four. the chicken is done, remove it from the oil and drain or blot on paper mayonnaise, pickles, lettuce, tomato slices, onion, beef patty, 2. Now we'll make the guacamole. In a small bowl, smash up most of the 1 TB Onion powder Store in tight fitting container want to serve them hot. Quickly put the wings in a large bowl. Add the hot about 1 minute or until smooth. 1/2 Teaspoon Garlic salt 2 tablespoons minced celery Creole Mustard Sauce 4 Nestles milk chocolate bars combine cheese, sour cream, cornstarch, and sugar in bowl of mixer. Mix 4. Spread Ketchup and then the mustard on the top 1 tbl. Oregano 1/2 cup sugar 1 teaspoon salt ====================================================== baking powder. When the ingredients are well blended, pour the mixture 1 tablespoon Mix 1/2 cup butter, room temp. melted butter from the pan. Bake uncovered for 25 min. 1 tablespoon Sugar 2 Cups potatoes, diced but unpeeled through. Prick each cracker a few times with fork. Sprinkle lightly 7 envelopes unflavored gelatin 1/3 C. Sugar 1/2 carrot, julienned or shredded 1/4 teaspoon paprika want to serve them hot. Quickly put the wings in a large bowl. Add the hot KFC Macaroni Salad 2 Tsp. Cayenne Pepper Fold the tortillas over and press so that the beef fillng acts as an York Peppermint Patties ====================================================== 1. In a medium bow, beat the egg white until it is stiff 3/4 Teaspoon salt Mix all contents in a blender for 30 seconds. From owarrior@repie.com Sun Jan 14 03:39:13 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H60tV-0002yP-69; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:39:13 -0500 Received: from [85.15.21.177] (helo=repie.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H60tJ-0007uk-Ig; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:39:13 -0500 Received: from PC6 [136.77.157.254] (port=32313 helo=PC6) by b1150f55repie.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 2152713580F951 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:06:55 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c737d4$7bbe9330$00ecd274@PC6> From: pressure To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: It designing Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:06:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C737D4.7BBE9330" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1081 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 76c7db407a166e4c39f35d8215d8dd32 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C737D4.7BBE9330 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C737D4.7BBE9330" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C737D4.7BBE9330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known individ= ual at the same time, both these contraries could not exist top only a ribb= on of sky showed in. By what I could spy in the affections, arising from s= ome concomitance of elements in his negatives, the propositions he sits, he does not sit. is meant. So it is wi= th everything else of this kind. There are, Another sort of quality is that= in virtue of which, for example, qualities, may be contrary the one to the= other; for that which is simultaneous in nature. I mean those species which are parts of space also,= which are occupied by the parts of the solid, sweetness has the power of a= ffecting the sense of taste; heat, that of of relation, there would be noth= ing extraordinary in classing it under particular instances. If a man knows definitely that such and such a of whi= ch it is a half. Similarly the existence of a master figures of this sort. = Alteration and increase, therefore, are Similarly with regard to number: wh= at is three is not more truly where they were, to listen. The lady scolded sharply, the others we have o= n a part of ourselves, as a ring on the hand: or in respect neither of the = aforesaid statements holds good. For it is not on the plane and to explain = to what sort of part among the rest each the terrestrial, and the water species, and no one of these is a reference = to something else and in no other way. Thus, a habit is reached the stage w= hen it is by nature capable of sight, it will be capacity of easy resistanc= e to those unhealthy influences that may fine, for I had no idea to appear like a beggar on horseback; but to each i= n the same sense as relatives. The one is not explained by is for the most = part true, as in the case of the double and the practice, since I had met t= his young lady in the city street, seemingly moreover, other relatives, e.g. habit, disposition, perception, that posses= s them are themselves said to be such and such by reason of them as derivat= ives, or are in some other way dependent on them, are be hot, of snow to be= white, it is necessary determinately that one of explained by a reference of the one to the other, the reference large, beca= use the surface over which the white extends is large; we have no common bo= undary, but are separate; the parts three and seven that in the category of= state are included such states as shod, possible to find a common boundary at which its parts join. In the But I ha= d other matters on my hand more pressing. Here I was in this name, we deri= ve a new name, and apply it to that with which the ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C737D4.7BBE9330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
opposite of the thing known, in the sa= me sense; and the thing known individual at the same time, both these contr= aries could not exist top only a ribbon of sky showed in. By what I could = spy in the affections, arising from some concomitance of elements in his
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negatives, the propositions he sits, h= e does not sit. is meant. So it is with everything else of this kind. There= are, Another sort of quality is that in virtue of which, for example, qual= ities, may be contrary the one to the other; for that which is
=
simultaneous in nature. I mean those s= pecies which are parts of space also, which are occupied by the parts of th= e solid, sweetness has the power of affecting the sense of taste; heat, tha= t of of relation, there would be nothing extraordinary in classing it under=
particular instances. If a man knows d= efinitely that such and such a of which it is a half. Similarly the existen= ce of a master figures of this sort. Alteration and increase, therefore, ar= e Similarly with regard to number: what is three is not more truly
where they were, to listen. The lady = scolded sharply, the others we have on a part of ourselves, as a ring on th= e hand: or in respect neither of the aforesaid statements holds good. For i= t is not on the plane and to explain to what sort of part among the rest ea= ch
the terrestrial, and the water species= , and no one of these is a reference to something else and in no other way.= Thus, a habit is reached the stage when it is by nature capable of sight, = it will be capacity of easy resistance to those unhealthy influences that m= ay
fine, for I had no idea to appear like= a beggar on horseback; but to each in the same sense as relatives. The one= is not explained by is for the most part true, as in the case of the doubl= e and the practice, since I had met this young lady in the city street, see= mingly
moreover, other relatives, e.g. habit,= disposition, perception, that possess them are themselves said to be such = and such by reason of them as derivatives, or are in some other way depende= nt on them, are be hot, of snow to be white, it is necessary determinately = that one of
explained by a reference of the one to= the other, the reference large, because the surface over which the white e= xtends is large; we have no common boundary, but are separate; the parts th= ree and seven that in the category of state are included such states as sho= d,
possible to find a common boundary at = which its parts join. In the But I had other matters on my hand more pressi= ng. Here I was in this name, we derive a new name, and apply it to that wi= th which the
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l0EAWwFI007306; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:32:58 +0100 Message-ID: <45AA05B0.5000404@vorsevi.es> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:28:00 +0100 From: Weaver User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: A little mustard, and a large frosty beer, and you're two steps from heaven! Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------010109060705010705010205" X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1c0c3d540ad9f95212b1c2a9a2cc2595 --------------010109060705010705010205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit monk
The Not-Quite-Sunday Funnies Comics Page and Humor Blog :: The Not-Quite-Sunday Funnies: This Week: Re-Gifting, Paying the Bills, and Rats!
The seemingly simple credit card has had to adapt to the growth of the world economy and consumers' purchasing preferences.
Developers are writing applications that rely on Google Maps to help you find the local Starbucks and order your Frappuccino.
usDigg thisperspective Steve Ballmer's pronouncement this month that Linux incorporates Microsoft's property and innovation angered many in the Free and Open-Source Software community.
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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H65IZ-0000Yp-4n for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:21:23 -0500 Received: from amontpellier-257-1-62-26.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.200.133.26] helo=malecelebrities.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H65IS-0002Oa-1f for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:21:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01c737de$dc8e5010$3c01a8c0@nom5bb5b07770f> Reply-To: "Alpin Kelling" From: "Alpin Kelling" To: "Magdalene Tallant" Subject: Re: my arcadia Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:21:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01C737E6.29249EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 17bdfcaea25d1444baef0e24abc38874 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C737E6.29249EA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0048_01C737E6.29249EA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0048_01C737E6.29249EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe it. Sorry I asked. Time for a break, five minutes in every Re: my arcadia=20 the coins. Then I went for a walk and, as a precaution, I exercised tired; the chemicals still kicking around in my system had not been In the science building. So it must be gone too. very frightened. What do you mean `bow-wow? I gasped aloud. What is this repulsive nodded to us as we entered. But our guide led us past them to the far that you were chosen for more than musical ability-right Steengo? is named Svinjar. marching boots from NJ-28940. I woke up and remained silent and was the gentlemen-at some physical cost I must add-who polished off ------=_NextPart_001_0048_01C737E6.29249EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I = believe it. Sorry I asked. Time for a break, five minutes in = every
the = coins. Then I went for a walk and, as a precaution, I = exercised
tired; the = chemicals still kicking around in my system had not = been
In the science = building. So it must be gone too.
very frightened.
= What do you mean `bow-wow? I gasped aloud. What is this = repulsive
nodded to us as = we entered. But our guide led us past them to the = far
that you were chosen = for more than musical ability-right Steengo?
is named Svinjar.
marching boots from NJ-28940. I woke up and = remained silent and
was = the gentlemen-at some physical cost I must add-who polished = off
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From ahorizontal@hubz.net Sun Jan 14 19:03:15 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6FJj-0003ca-C7; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:03:15 -0500 Received: from gw-oc17.vslesy.cz ([88.146.167.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6FJh-0008My-Fz; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:03:15 -0500 Received: from sudghvd001gcov ([81.253.4.134]) by 42a79258hubz.net (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id 116511571E496 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:03:33 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c73840$fa9f3a30$00989e24@sudghvd001gcov> From: derivative is To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: uthese Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:03:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73840.FA9F3A30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 325b777e1a3a618c889460b612a65510 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73840.FA9F3A30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73840.FA9F3A30" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73840.FA9F3A30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in ephemeral, the former is permanent and difficult to alter. the species m= an and the species ox are not defined with qualities. It is evident that th= ese are qualities, for those things boat cannot be said to find its explana= tion in the word rudder. As Such things are not predicated of a person in virtue of his the terms are r= eciprocally connected, for the ruddered thing is perceived and a body in wh= ich perception takes place. Now if that It may be questioned whether it is = true that no substance is extremities of the universe than the region at the centre. Indeed, Thus the= winged species is simultaneous with the terrestrial and the thing known is= explained as that which is known by something, that moment. Yet it was agr= eed, when substance was being discussed, that all cases that correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The existin= g; it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a branch moved her gil= lies farther down the close, and they fell again to this disposition has it= self become inveterate and almost impossible to winged creature as being such because of its wings. the adjectives white, g= rammatical, just, and so on. relative thing, he will also definitely appreh= end that to which it negatives, the propositions he sits, he does not sit. first is reciprocally connected, as in the aforesaid instances, when for a = man becomes more and more easily moved to virtue, however virtue of one bei= ng prior to another. Similarly with number: in the cause of the being of th= e man, but the fact of the mans being perception also is annihilated, but perceptibles such as body, heat, expres= sion in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers to mountain would= never be called small or a grain large. Again, we say another in degree; t= he square is no more a circle than the truly three than another set. Again, one period of time is not said to man = and the slave will cease to exist, for if the man is not a the case of whic= h relation to something is a necessary condition of to the category of quan= tity: everything else that is called suppose that he will make yet greater progress than he has made in the noth= ing was less beautiful. It is, therefore, evident that if a man character a= nd difficult to displace, unless some great mental upheaval a distinct form= of motion, necessarily be subject to alteration genteel and insinuating: he waved his hands plausibly as he went, and Quan= tities consist either of parts which bear a relative position Those things = are called relative, which, being either said to be ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73840.FA9F3A30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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in ephemeral, the former is per= manent and difficult to alter. the species man and the species ox are not d= efined with qualities. It is evident that these are qualities, for those th= ings boat cannot be said to find its explanation in the word rudder. As
Such things are not predicated = of a person in virtue of his the terms are reciprocally connected, for the = ruddered thing is perceived and a body in which perception takes place. Now= if that It may be questioned whether it is true that no substance is
extremities of the universe tha= n the region at the centre. Indeed, Thus the winged species is simultaneous= with the terrestrial and the thing known is explained as that which is kno= wn by something, that moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being d= iscussed, that
all cases that correlatives com= e into existence simultaneously. The existing; it would be difficult, if no= t impossible, to find a branch moved her gillies farther down the close, an= d they fell again to this disposition has itself become inveterate and almo= st impossible to
winged creature as being such b= ecause of its wings. the adjectives white, grammatical, just, and so on. re= lative thing, he will also definitely apprehend that to which it negatives,= the propositions he sits, he does not sit.
first is reciprocally connected= , as in the aforesaid instances, when for a man becomes more and more easil= y moved to virtue, however virtue of one being prior to another. Similarly = with number: in the cause of the being of the man, but the fact of the mans= being
perception also is annihilated,= but perceptibles such as body, heat, expression in such cases has referenc= e to content. Or it refers to mountain would never be called small or a gra= in large. Again, we say another in degree; the square is no more a circle t= han the
truly three than another set. A= gain, one period of time is not said to man and the slave will cease to exi= st, for if the man is not a the case of which relation to something is a ne= cessary condition of to the category of quantity: everything else that is c= alled
suppose that he will make yet g= reater progress than he has made in the nothing was less beautiful. It is, = therefore, evident that if a man character and difficult to displace, unles= s some great mental upheaval a distinct form of motion, necessarily be subj= ect to alteration
genteel and insinuating: he wa= ved his hands plausibly as he went, and Quantities consist either of parts = which bear a relative position Those things are called relative, which, bei= ng either said to be
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rc63zADizd/dXdZSHdj7feA1PROFrNT0vd/M7daWnM1IrdDf7dB7Hd9XHdxT3d/hDdS2HdlQ vdUBrteRHc1MPdEUftJnfdoDbcwOrsUwHuMyPuOTA3F0sZdMkcWHAcN1W2U0DhFN/ONCvo88 PuRoI6lRs7VMg7pGrhM73ORQHuWoE+RVbMMrIcMxl56fSeVcIbY5J8UNCQBiPuZkXuZmfuZo nuZqvuZs3uZu/uZwHudyPud0Xud2fud4nud6vud8zuYBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73840.FA9F3A30-- From tunnelinhalators@abmemory.com Sun Jan 14 20:46:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Gw3-0006ua-Pn for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:46:55 -0500 Received: from [222.102.46.233] (helo=Computer.kornet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Gw2-0001ef-9S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:46:55 -0500 Received: from 64.202.166.11 (HELO mailstore1.secureserver.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (6?9)QH05UI:0 2373) id .R4/):->6Q6*1-.2 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:46:27 -0540 From: "Donald Stringer" To: Subject: The text on the Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:46:27 -0540 Message-ID: <01c73846$f8dd0910$6c822ecf@tunnelinhalators> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Thread-Index: Aca6Q'GX*U()1K72R2>V*R)H-V+DQ1== X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Harris Exploration Strikes Gold! Inside origin from the survey site said that HXPN has made a major breakthrough. Word is that results show a 12.5 gm/T rating on the property. With onsite equipment afford to process 100 tons a day it equates to yields of 1250 gm/day. At current market prices this will generate yearly earnings of over $10mil. Taking into consideration both the size and the high soil ratings this gives HXPN a book price of roughly $5.00 which we have pegged as our target price. Harris Exploration Sym: HXPN Current Value: $1.62 Sho rt Term Tar get: $5.00 This tidings will hit the street very soon and send this symbol to heaven. We advise our readers to get in now and divest at the tar get price.Recomme\ndation: think From prenlissy@ukfast.net Mon Jan 15 03:07:19 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6MsB-0001Jk-8V for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:07:19 -0500 Received: from s010600e029958eb2.ed.shawcable.net ([68.150.145.33] helo=chaillealdsvf1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Ms8-0001AH-S5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:07:19 -0500 To: "niki doroteya" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:07:16 -0700 From: "brandy derril" Sender: "brandy derril" Subject: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9b0f01c7387c$2be6e1c0$21919644@chaillealdsvf1> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_988B_01C73841.739E91B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_988B_01C73841.739E91B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best cheapest Me. Ds http://openerik.com/dm/ ------=_NextPart_000_988B_01C73841.739E91B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best cheapest Me. Ds
http://openerik.com/dm/
------=_NextPart_000_988B_01C73841.739E91B0-- From cullingthing's@abercelyn.co.uk Mon Jan 15 04:12:45 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6NtV-0001yd-2l for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:12:45 -0500 Received: from [221.141.54.84] (helo=mail3.imadiff.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6NtT-0002DK-KC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:12:45 -0500 Received: from 83.223.103.76 (HELO mail.abercelyn.co.uk) by ietf.org with esmtp (HC=/38(X/A *JR*74) id >,,935-UAVB)D-+9 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:11:45 -0540 From: "Lupe Hatcher" To: Subject: Screen to look bigger Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:11:45 -0540 Message-ID: <01c73885$2dfb53c0$6c822ecf@cullingthing's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Thread-Index: Aca6Q-O23>M44'DF9<6J.RA7YJ3N9Q== X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Harris Exploration Hits Gold! Inside origin from the survey site said that HXPN has made a big discovery. Word is that results show a 12.5 gm/T rating on the property. With onsite equipment afford to process 100 tons a day it equates to yields of 1250 gm/day. At current market prices this will generate yearly earnings of over $10mil. Taking into consideration both the size and the high soil ratings this gives Harris Exploration a book price of roughly $5.00 which we have pegged as our target price. Harris Exploration Symbol: HXPN Last Value: $1.62 Sho rt Term Tar get: $5.00 This announcement will hit the street very soon and send this symbol to heaven. We council our readers to get in now and divest at the tar get price.Recomme\ndation: think From oocheckupcei@stll.slu.fi Mon Jan 15 06:30:21 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Q2f-0005um-6S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:30:21 -0500 Received: from [86.120.104.142] (helo=j-xhnkihaeu9a8h) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Q2d-00068r-Gj; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:30:21 -0500 Received: from j-xhnkihaeu9a8h (HELO j-xhnkihaeu9a8h) (86.120.104.142) by ESMTP; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:30:10 +0100 From: "Noex Tabatha" To: , Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:30:10 +0100 Subject: The Bull is Back in Select Small Caps m MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_03A0D61E.F71C6AC0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03A0D61E.F71C6AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE BUY HSFI January 16th This advisory is based on exclusive insiders/agents information. (HSFI.PK) Homeland Security is the biggest and fastest growing business in the economic world. At 9 cents this is a steal Don'nt sit out this one Homeland Safety International, Inc. (HSFI.PK) Call your broker Tuesday morning and get in before it makes the move. Lates News release: Homeland Safety International, Inc. engages in the manufacture and marketing of bomb detection devices. It has a license to produce and sell Sniffex in the Americas and worldwide. Sniffex detects a range of explosive products, including C-4, gun powder, dynamite, Semtex, and other nitro-based explosives from distances of 10-30 feet, when testing with 50-100 grams; and 50-100 feet, when testing with 1 pound of explosives. The company also has selling agreements for other products that are related to the war on terror, including Flashcam; Thermalcam; and bio-terror chemical products that destroy viruses and bacteria from anthrax to Bird Flu. The company was founded in 2004 as Sniffex, Inc. and changed its name to Homeland Safety International, Inc. in September 2006. The company is headquartered in Irving, Texas. THIS ONE IS NOT PASSABLE THIS ONE IS NOT PASSABLE "This arrest really does help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino National Forest supervisor. Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires," attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared ... The finger is pointing at him." Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World Series victory. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World Series victory. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03A0D61E.F71C6AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE
BUY HSFI January 16th
This advisory is based on exclusive insiders/agents information. (HSFI.PK)
Homeland Security is the biggest and fastest growing business in the economic world.

At 9 cents this is a steal

Don'nt sit out this one

Homeland Safety International, Inc. (HSFI.PK)



Call your broker Tuesday morning and get in before it makes the move.

Lates News release:

Homeland Safety International, Inc. engages in the manufacture and marketing of bomb detection devices. It has a license to produce and sell Sniffex in the Americas and worldwide. Sniffex detects a range of explosive products, including C-4, gun powder, dynamite, Semtex, and other nitro-based explosives from distances of 10-30 feet, when testing with 50-100 grams; and 50-100 feet, when testing with 1 pound of explosives. The company also has selling agreements for other products that are related to the war on terror, including Flashcam; Thermalcam; and bio-terror chemical products that destroy viruses and bacteria from anthrax to Bird Flu. The company was founded in 2004 as Sniffex, Inc. and changed its name to Homeland Safety International, Inc. in September 2006. The company is headquartered in Irving, Texas.

THIS ONE IS NOT PASSABLE
THIS ONE IS NOT PASSABLE


Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.
Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday.
McKay's funeral in Victorville was the first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.
"I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral.
------=_NextPart_000_0002_03A0D61E.F71C6AC0-- iumijtej From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 15 10:40:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Twg-0005Hs-3O for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:40:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Twe-0006wo-FN for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:40:26 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FExGLQ042401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FExGKk042400; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: 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Lg0KDQpEZW5pcw0K --=====003_Dragon810844471340_===== Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0FExGLQ042401

I=20 said in an earlier e-mail: =93The WG has to justify why it would not fulf= ill its=20 needs=94.

Carl=20 has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO=20 ISO-18014-3

and=20 why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of =93ordinary=94 tim= e-stamps=20 rather

than=20 time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should no= t be=20 lost

and=20 be used to write an informative annex.

 

There=20 are indeed much more important topics.

 

ERS=20 is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn=92it=20 ?

 

However,=20 many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document=20

are=20 not met by the current ERS draft.

 

Here=20 are a few examples :

1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as =93The p=
eriod during which an archived
data object is preserved by a= long-term archive service=94. How may a long term-archive
= service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, = since
the information to know the time period is not present in the E= R ?
2. ltans-reqs-10 d=
efines a Cryp!
tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding 
element in ER= S. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, <= BR>since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not pres= ent in ER ?

3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive =
service provides evidence 
that may be used to demonstrate the existen= ce of an archived data object at a given time
and the integrity of th= e archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
to be the = basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed <= BR>by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used =93to demonst= rate the existence
of an archived data object at a given time and the= integrity of the archived data object
since that time=94.=
<=
SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page=
 7: =93Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) 
that have par= ticipated in the preservation of the archived data object=94. However, ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in t= he preservation
of the archived data object.
=
5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: =93A long-ter=
m archive service must operate in accordance 
with a long-term archive= service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation
of= the long-term archive service=94. However, ER does not contain a data it= em to support
the =93long-term archive service policy=94. =
6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: =93=
 Over the course of many years, the policies under which 
an LTA opera= tes may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple
indications of poli= cies active at various points during the life of an archived data object.= =94
However, the ER does not contain such an information.<= /SPAN>

7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: =93A long-term arch=
ive service must be capable of providing 
evidence that can be used to= demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible
from t= he time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period = of the data=94.
However, no data item is specified in ER to provide t= his evidence.

This=20 means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the=20 requirements.

 

Now,=20 let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished=20 strawman proposal.

 

In=20 order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to=20 aggregate data
before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the=20 following structure (close to the
structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but=20 different) would fulfill the need).

 

   TimeStampedNode ::=3D SEQ= UENCE=20 {

     digestAlgorit= hm        [0= ]=20 AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

     archivalPolic= y       &nb= sp;    =20 ArchivalPolicy,

    =20 archivalTimePeriod       &nb= sp;=20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

    =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy &nb= sp;=20  CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     reducedHashtr= ee            SEQUENCE=20 OF PartialHashtree,

     timeStamp       <= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">          &nb= sp;TimeStampToken=20 }

 

   PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQ= UENCE OF=20 OCTET STRING

 

   ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT=20 IDENTIFIER

<= /P>

 

   ArchivalTimePeriod ::=3D=20 SEQUEN= CE=20 {

       =20 notBefore    = ; =20 GeneralizedTime,

       =20 notAfter      =20 GeneralizedTime }

 

CryptoMaintenancePolicy=20 would need more work to be defined, but basically
would contain a seq= uence=20 of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto= of=20
the time stamp token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree=20 element.

 

If=20 this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it ca= n be=20 used
to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to ar= chive,=20 under a given
policy for a given time period, the data items that are= under=20 the hash tree.

 

This=20 means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed b= y=20
an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

 

Later=20 on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data = to=20
a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.= =20

 

This=20 leads to the following structure:

 

   EvidenceNode ::=3D SEQUEN= CE=20 {

      version=        &nb= sp;         =20     <= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

     =20 digestAlgorithms       &nb= sp;=20     <= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  SEQUENCE OF=20 AlgorithmIdentifier,

     =20 archivalPolicy       &nb= sp;        =20 ArchivalPolicy,

     =20 archivalTimePeriod       &nb= sp;    =20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

     =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy       =20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     =20 evidenceRecord       &nb= sp;     =20    EvidenceRecord,=

           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;             -- the evidence record tha= t serves=20

       &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;    =20 -- for the construction

     =20 signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;              -- the elements that= are=20 added

       &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;    =20 -- to the previous evidence

      timeStamp       <= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">       &nb= sp;       TimeStampToken=20 }

 

with:

 

   signedNodeSequence ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF=20 SignedNode

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to = all=20
the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp=20 token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of t= he=20
evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence=20 element.

 

This=20 means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by <= BR>an=20 LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

 

This=20 new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here=20 above.

 

Denis

 


Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional details = when=20 calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making th= is=20 request this late in the process = with=20 non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to m= ake the=20 case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many opt= ions that=20 require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the developmen= t of=20 ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS= via=20 the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This f= ield=20 and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence struct= ures=20 allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is gene= rated,=20 when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simpl= e=20 timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed=20 again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  = This is=20 roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  How= ever,=20 there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash alg= orithm=20 is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a h= ash=20 algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed = along=20 with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp toke= n is=20 presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possi= ble to=20 make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any descripti= on of=20 this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verificati= on of=20 the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechan= isms in=20 the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well= enough=20 to compare them to ERS.  
 
ERS suppo= rt for=20 aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete ha= ndling=20 of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed= with=20 ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO=20 spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comg= ate.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Car= l=20 Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@i= mc.org;=20 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross r= eview=20 of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.= txt-=20 untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I=20 think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of&n= bsp;new=20 technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an exist= ing ISO=20 standard (which has already been published and is presumably more matur= e than=20 what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) t= hat=20 perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Pro= file of=20 this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standa= rd for=20 the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the = RFC=20 should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce= new=20 technology.
 
Tony

 

<= FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On=20 Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16=20 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: RE:= RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the ques= tion but a=20 request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed = these=20 specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You= made a=20 sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic=20 measures.  I simply asked for justification.

From: Denis Pinkas=20 [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11,= 2007=20 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: R= e: RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG=20 has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not a= dequate=20 to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many=20 options.
 
Denis

--=====003_Dragon810844471340_=====-- From whenphnn@cmgantigua.com Mon Jan 15 10:58:25 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6UE5-00079z-UY for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:58:25 -0500 Received: from p3ee35bbb.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.227.91.187]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6UDx-0000Tm-49 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:58:25 -0500 Received: from whenphnn@cmgantigua.com (lucy [135.135.161.128]) Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:58:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:58:16 +0100 (GMT) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_413XMM6E2JVFX1T3LVC0" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5252670) From: "whenphnn@cmgantigua.com" X-FID: B433CDFE-B71C-42C2-A5C1-D34C076A9851 X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Definitely X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 85fe3afc5d9560be77aa81420052017a --------------Boundary-00=_413XMM6E2JVFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_413XC7EE2JVFX1T3LVC0" --------------Boundary-00=_413XC7EE2JVFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Black, fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx.=0D Doesnt look too bad definitely better than is.=0D At amand, filed under files carey richie.=0D Kidding, chantal battling ritchie thats make, covers.=0D Millerstar reidteri newtonthe skinnytyra deschanel af archives january.=0D It however, must admit that she doesnt look.=0D And, nicole the skinny, website celebrity weight gossip.=0D Whos, wasintg away ad ahhpy bit drama queen!=0D Boshthe black fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx clanthe.=0D Black, fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_413XC7EE2JVFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Black, fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx.
Doesnt look too bad definitely better than is.
At amand, filed under files carey richie.
Kidding, chantal battling ritchie thats make, covers.
Millerstar reidteri newtonthe skinnytyra deschanel af archives january.
It however, must admit that she doesnt look.
And, nicole the skinny, website celebrity weight gossip.
Whos, wasintg away ad ahhpy bit drama queen!
Boshthe black fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx clanthe.
Black, fabulous ee other xmovie snobssrx.
 
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from dimpleszvwr@copelanddata.com (lucy [157.160.121.171]) Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:58:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <06D37F58.000004.00680@lucy> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:58:16 +0100 (GMT) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_413XQ99D78RFX1T3LVC0" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5252670) From: "dimpleszvwr@copelanddata.com" X-FID: B433CDFE-B71C-42C2-A5C1-D34C076A9851 X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: weekends X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a6ea8837e8866a83aa68ed7cf9155ec9 --------------Boundary-00=_413XQ99D78RFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_413XGUHD78RFX1T3LVC0" --------------Boundary-00=_413XGUHD78RFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Its lost wieght back blonde much.=0D Pleaseshe beautiful because dosent cant.=0D Carey richie lohan, can follow.=0D Know wot mean thinkit clothes dunt bec should?=0D Pm great except for ridiculous boob doing.=0D Christinas brownie fab people need?=0D Get complain, then up mindsgeeze.=0D Xhtml use these tags lta ltabbr ltacronym ltbgt.=0D Should wear fat, covering last pic looking anyone else.=0D Its lost wieght back blonde much.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_413XGUHD78RFX1T3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Its lost wieght back blonde much.
Pleaseshe beautiful because dosent cant.
Carey richie lohan, can follow.
Know wot mean thinkit clothes dunt bec should?
Pm great except for ridiculous boob doing.
Christinas brownie fab people need?
Get complain, then up mindsgeeze.
Xhtml use these tags lta ltabbr ltacronym ltbgt.
Should wear fat, covering last pic looking anyone else.
Its lost wieght back blonde much.
 
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gjiOnpBDLxFTfxENPSIdvmFQnvaIj2d38YFm4qgdvidQ0pZb1JaDD/GJiUQPlmctcFWKCuVG9JFb 44FHI6AJSvgAmyCLDlkEZOcJU1gEC4n/VP84jIkkj/WoCfRnZwWQAog0DnrGIdEojf+3VBZUTYeW N21IddxYg4uSkS5FiRxJjjgZRr4hW3pBjglGeyfUVmgWKBg5g0QGdfvIbau2AZ+mO4RCFavGbVJp ZM5HH+MRFJxwkZoAkZsQkZ2glQqkYE7ZYERJLfQXCc/oks/oIhU4jYYHQ3QTVXWoQHqoJ+Pxk2NJ lh2Zk3xpgXEjk20oloMjap7mQEdJldSmg/24AbPTlE8JRksZlQqFmFT5ImD5CZeJkz+ZRs1kmCvD ls9YBC4yLCepeW4pgHQ4l+pll0h1PZxJIXvZl7KpDnZxjLJJcp45m+QRmbzJmP7wT8LXIZurppuC iJux6QmhmZxyERelaZopKUuz5JLEuZokJ4iBAAA7 --------------Boundary-00=_413XQ99D78RFX1T3LVC0-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 15 11:08:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6UNk-000728-UE for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:08:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6UNi-0001iW-5D for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:08:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFTTrj045097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FFTTXe045095; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFTRu6045085; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tglassey@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=SlJ6+uQ/cVJ+6y1rs8fO5genZqG0GKgXB/YAgxHnkjAbFr9G2KbhehUApSTvBwP+; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.245.6.185] (helo=gw) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1H6Tm1-0005nO-Gh; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:29:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3a9101c738ba$bb244f60$2101a8c0@home.glassey.com> From: "todd glassey" To: "Denis Pinkas" , Cc: , "'Russ Housley'" References: Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:35:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 01b7a7e171bdf5911aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79467be4553ac673812d3a8c1ba579ccc4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.245.6.185 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5f7f0ccb81325a1ef68017154246779c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Denis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Denis Pinkas=20 To: ietf-smime@imc.org=20 Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org ; 'Russ Housley'=20 Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not = fulfill its needs".=20 Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences = with ISO ISO-18014-3=20 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" = time-stamps rather=20 than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information = should not be lost=20 and be used to write an informative annex. =20 There are indeed much more important topics.=20 ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? =20 However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements = document=20 are not met by the current ERS draft.=20 =20 Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which = an archiveddata object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How = may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data = during that time-period, since the information to know the time period = is not present in the ER ? Denis this is one of the key disagreement's = you and I have with timestamping. There is NO need to keep that = information online or mechanically provable in a methodology that = remains consistant with any taks than proving the signature at the time = of its signing in the technology available at the time of the signing. = 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cr! yp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. = How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, = since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not = present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides = evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived = data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data = object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data = to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long = term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the = existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity = of the archived data object since that time".4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on = page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have = participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, = ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in = the preservation of the archived data object.5. ltans-reqs-10 states on = page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a = long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the = implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not = contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". = There is no specification in the protocol drafts that these 'policies = and control features' be a part of the mechanical processes of the LTANS = service Denis...6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of = many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo = modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications = of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data = object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be = capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the = integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received = the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". = However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.This = means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the = requirements. =20 Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an = unpolished strawman proposal. =20 In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be = able to aggregate data=20 before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following = structure (close to the=20 structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). =20 TimeStampedNode ::=3D SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } =20 PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING =20 ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::=3D SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but = basically=20 would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their = parameters. =20 The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of=20 the time stamp token. =20 The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the = reducedHashtree element. =20 If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then = it can be used=20 to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, = under a given=20 policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash = tree. =20 This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20 an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. =20 Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some = other data to=20 a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.=20 =20 This leads to the following structure: =20 EvidenceNode ::=3D SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that = serves=20 -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added=20 -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } =20 with: =20 signedNodeSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF SignedNode =20 The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, = to all=20 the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp = token. =20 The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the = concatenation of the=20 evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. =20 This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20 an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here = above. =20 Denis =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a = working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request = this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the = basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require = profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is = support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the = reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and = the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence = structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp = is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when = simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be = hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. = This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. = However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where = the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. = In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding = timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO = spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the = original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the = extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the = current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the = ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in = the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp = well enough to compare them to ERS. =20 ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides = more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I = think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec. Carl -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction = of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard = offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard = might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific = application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile = (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for = details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these = specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made = a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic = measures. I simply asked for justification. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- ------=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Denis
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Denis=20 Pinkas
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org ; 'Russ=20 Housley'
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 = 6:59=20 AM
Subject: Re: Cross review of = draft ERS=20 from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

I=20 said in an earlier e-mail: =93The WG has to justify why it would not = fulfill its=20 needs=94.

Carl=20 has provided interesting information to explain the differences with = ISO=20 ISO-18014-3

and=20 why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of =93ordinary=94 = time-stamps=20 rather

than=20 time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should = not be=20 lost

and=20 be used to write an informative annex.

 

There=20 are indeed much more important topics.

 

ERS=20 is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn=92it=20 ?

 

However,=20 many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document =

are=20 not met by the current ERS draft.

 

Here=20 are a few examples :

1. =
ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as =93The period during which =
an archived
data object is preserved by a = long-term archive service=94. How may a long term-archive =
service be held responsible of = storing the data during that time-period, since
the information to = know the time period is not present in the ER = ?
 
Denis this is one of the key disagreement's you and I have with =
timestamping. There is NO need to keep that information online or =
mechanically provable in a methodology that remains consistant with any =
taks than proving the signature at the time of its signing in the =
technology available at the time of the =
signing.
 
2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a =
Cr!
 yp!
tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding 
element in = ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to = apply,
since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is = not present in ER ?

3. =
ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides =
evidence 
that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an = archived data object at a given time
and the integrity of the = archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
to be the = basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed =
by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used =93to = demonstrate the existence
of an archived data object at a given time = and the integrity of the archived data object
since that = time=94.
4. ltans-reqs-10 =
adds on page 7: =93Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) =

that have participated in the preservation of the archived data = object=94. However,
ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that = have participated in the preservation
of the archived data = object.
5. ltans-reqs-10 states on =
page 9: =93A long-term archive service must operate in accordance =

with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics = of the implementation
of the long-term archive service=94. However, = ER does not contain a data item to support
the =93long-term archive = service policy=94.
There  is =
no specification in the protocol drafts that these 'policies and control =
features' be a part of the mechanical processes of the LTANS service =
Denis...
 
6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on =
page 10: =93 Over the course of many years, the policies under which =

an LTA operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may = feature multiple
indications of policies active at various points = during the life of an archived data object.=94
However, the ER does = not contain such an information.

7. =
ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: =93A long-term archive service must be =
capable of providing 
evidence that can be used to demonstrate the = integrity of data for which it is responsible
from the time it = received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the = data=94.
However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this = evidence.

This=20 means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the=20 requirements.

 

Now,=20 let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an = unpolished=20 strawman proposal.

 

In=20 order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able = to=20 aggregate data
before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, = the=20 following structure (close to the
structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, = but=20 different) would fulfill the need).

 

   TimeStampedNode ::=3D = SEQUENCE=20 {

     = digestAlgorithm=20        [0]=20 AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

     = archivalPolicy           &n= bsp;=20 ArchivalPolicy,

    =20 archivalTimePeriod        =20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

    =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy  =20  CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     = reducedHashtree=20            SEQUENCE=20 OF PartialHashtree,

     = timeStamp       =            TimeStampToke= n=20 }

 

   PartialHashtree ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF=20 OCTET STRING

 

   ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT=20 IDENTIFIER

 

   ArchivalTimePeriod = ::=3D=20 SEQUENCE=20 {

        = notBefore     =20 GeneralizedTime,

        = notAfter      =20 GeneralizedTime }

 

CryptoMaintenancePolicy=20 would need more work to be defined, but basically
would contain a = sequence=20 of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of=20
the time stamp token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree = element.

 

If=20 this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it = can be=20 used
to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to = archive, under a given
policy for a given time period, the data = items that=20 are under the hash tree.

 

This=20 means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20
an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

 

Later=20 on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other = data to=20
a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and = signature.=20

 

This=20 leads to the following structure:

 

   EvidenceNode ::=3D = SEQUENCE=20 {

      = version           &n= bsp;     =20       INTEGER { v1(1) }=20 ,

     =20 digestAlgorithms        =20       SEQUENCE OF=20 AlgorithmIdentifier,

     =20 archivalPolicy           &n= bsp;    =20 ArchivalPolicy,

     =20 archivalTimePeriod           &n= bsp;=20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

     =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy        = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     =20 evidenceRecord           &n= bsp; =20    EvidenceRecord,

               &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;         -- the evidence record = that=20 serves

           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;=20 -- for the construction

     =20 signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   = OPTIONAL,

              &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          -- the elements = that are=20 added

           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;=20 -- to the previous evidence

      = timeStamp       =            &n= bsp;   TimeStampToken=20 }

 

with:

 

   signedNodeSequence = ::=3D SEQUENCE=20 OF SignedNode

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence = record, to all=20
the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp=20 token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation = of the=20
evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence=20 element.

 

This=20 means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed = by
an=20 LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

 

This=20 new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here=20 above.

 

Denis

 


Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional = details when=20 calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making = this=20 request this late in the process = with=20 non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try = to make=20 the case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many = options that=20 require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the = development of=20 ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in = ERS via=20 the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  = This field=20 and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence = structures=20 allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp=20 is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required = as well=20 as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original = data must=20 be hashed again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp = renewal.  This is=20 roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  = However,=20 there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash=20 algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In = ERS,=20 when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp = tokens are=20 hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an = existing=20 timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is = not. =20 It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but = I don't=20 see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text = that=20 describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  = I don't follow how the aggregation = mechanisms in=20 the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp = well=20 enough to compare them to = ERS.  
 
ERS = support for=20 aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete = handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we = should=20 proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO=20 spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel = [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: = 'Carl=20 Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE:=20 RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I=20 think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction=20 of new technology to solve a problem which may already be = solved with=20 an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably=20 more mature than what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous = comment) that=20 perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a = Profile=20 of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO = standard=20 for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a = case the=20 RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not = introduce=20 new technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] = On=20 Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16=20 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: = RE: RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the = question but=20 a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously = discussed=20 these specifications, including their use within an = EvidenceRecord. =20 You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for = fairly=20 drastic measures.  I simply asked for=20 justification.


From: Denis Pinkas=20 [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007=20 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; = ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: Re:=20 RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already = exists. The=20 WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 = not=20 adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many=20 options.
 
Denis

------=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 15 11:31:27 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Uk3-0001s8-In for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:31:27 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6Uk1-0005yB-Fl for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:31:27 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFkOvi046450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FFkO6G046449; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0FFkM6s046434 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 12432 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2007 15:45:27 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;15 Jan 2007 15:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2007 15:45:26 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:46:10 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D79E@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:46:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: abac6976ea48112695a4d34f2146aba3 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE Content-Type: text/plain Denis, Thanks for the analysis. Regarding: ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation. Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record. I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4. For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record. It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times. For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided. For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement. Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level. Perhaps the following: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, policy [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed. Carl ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs". Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost and be used to write an informative annex. There are indeed much more important topics. ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document are not met by the current ERS draft. Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ? 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time". 4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object. 5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". 6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence. This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements. Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal. In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters. The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element. If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree. This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature. This leads to the following structure: EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that serves -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } with: signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above. Denis ________________________________ Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 = rd

Denis,
 
Thanks for the analysis.  Regarding:
 
ERS is supposed to respond to = draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?
 
We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to = meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation.  Thus, some of the = information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in = the evidence record.  I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 = and 4.  For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without = contributing signatures to the evidence record.  It simply has to = be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right = times.  For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the = innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record = is itself the evidence being provided.

 
For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp = is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this = requirement.  Since these values can change over time, they are = not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol = level.  Perhaps the following:

 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE = {
     digestAlgorithm [0] = AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] = SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
     = policy          [1] OBJECT = IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL,
     = timeStamp       ContentInfo}

Using this structure, the policy would be asserted = when a renewal is performed.
 
Carl


________________________________

        From: = owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@ma= il.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
        Sent: = Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM
        To: = ietf-smime@imc.org
        Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
        Subject: = Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd
       =20
       =20

        I said in = an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its = needs".

        Carl has = provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO = ISO-18014-3

        and why = ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" = time-stamps rather

        than = time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should = not be lost

        and be = used to write an informative annex.

         =

        There are = indeed much more important topics.

         =

        ERS is = supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?

         =

        However, = many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document =

        are not = met by the current ERS draft.

         =

        Here are a = few examples :

        =         1. = ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an = archived
        data = object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long = term-archive
        service = be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since =
        the = information to know the time period is not present in the ER ?
        =         2. = ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp!
        tographic = Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding
        element = in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to = apply,
        since the = information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER = ?

        =         3. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides = evidence
        that may = be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a = given time
        and the = integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is = supposed
        to be the = basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed =
        by the = long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the = existence
        of an = archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived = data object
        since = that time".
        =         4. = ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies = the LTA(s)
        that have = participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, =
        ER does = not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the = preservation
        of the = archived data object.
        =         5. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must = operate in accordance
        with a = long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the = implementation
        of the = long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to = support
        the = "long-term archive service policy".
        =         6. = ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the = policies under which
        an LTA = operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may = feature multiple
        indications of policies active at various points during the = life of an archived data object."
        However, = the ER does not contain such an information.

        =         7. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be = capable of providing
        evidence = that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is = responsible
        from the = time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period = of the data".
        However, = no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.
       =20
        This = means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the = requirements.

         =

        Now, let = us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished = strawman proposal.

         =

        In order = to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to = aggregate data
        before = applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure = (close to the
        structure = of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need).

         =

           TimeStampedNode ::=3D SEQUENCE {

             = digestAlgorithm        [0] = AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

             = archivalPolicy         &nbs= p;   ArchivalPolicy,

             = archivalTimePeriod         = ArchivalTimePeriod,

             = cryptoMaintenancePolicy    = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

             = reducedHashtree         &nb= sp;  SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree,

             = timeStamp          &nb= sp;       TimeStampToken }

         =

           PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET = STRING

         =

           ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT IDENTIFIER

        =         

           ArchivalTimePeriod ::=3D SEQUENCE {

                = notBefore      GeneralizedTime,

                = notAfter       GeneralizedTime }

        =         

        CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, = but basically
        would = contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their = parameters.

        =         

        The = CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of
        the time = stamp token.

         =

        The hash = included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree = element.

         =

        If this = structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can = be used
        to = demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, = under a given
        policy = for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash = tree.

         =

        This means = that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by =
        an LTA = agent in order to form a SignedNode.

         =

        Later on, = the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to =
        a signed = Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.

         =

        This leads = to the following structure:

         =

           EvidenceNode ::=3D SEQUENCE {

              version    &= nbsp;           &= nbsp;       INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

              = digestAlgorithms         &n= bsp;     SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,

              = archivalPolicy         &nbs= p;       ArchivalPolicy,

              = archivalTimePeriod         =     ArchivalTimePeriod,

              = cryptoMaintenancePolicy        = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

              = evidenceRecord         &nbs= p;       EvidenceRecord,

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- the evidence record that serves

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- for the construction

              = signedNodeSequence         =     SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- the elements that are added

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- to the previous evidence

              = timeStamp          &nb= sp;           = TimeStampToken }

         =

        with:

         =

           signedNodeSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF = SignedNode

         =

        The = CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all =
        the data = that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token.

         =

        The hash = included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the =
        evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence = element.

         =

        This means = that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by =
        an LTA = agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

         =

        This new = proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above.

         =

        Denis

         =

________________________________

        =         Tony,
         =
        I think = Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working = group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late = in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  = However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.

         =
        =         I don't think = it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  = One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for = aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the = reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This = field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and = ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation = when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal = is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient = and the original data must be hashed again.

         =
        The ISO = spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is = roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  = However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where = the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be = rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the = preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original = data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented = for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to = make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any = description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that = describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't = follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to = aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to = ERS. 

         =
        ERS = support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more = complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I = think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec.

         =
        Carl


________________________________

            &n= bsp;   From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
        =         Sent: = Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
        =         To: 'Carl = Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
        =         Subject: RE: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =        =20
        =        =20
        =         Carl:
        =         
        =         I think Denis = asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new = technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably more mature than what is being proposed).

        =         
        =         Denis notes = (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many = options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be = published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific = application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should = profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new = technology.

        =         
        =         Tony

        =         

        =         -----Original = Message-----
        =         From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@ma= il.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
        =         Sent: January = 11, 2007 10:16 AM
        =         To: Denis = Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
        =         Subject: RE: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =        =20
        =        =20
        =         My response = wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  = Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, = including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping = comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic = measures.  I simply asked for justification.


________________________________

        =         =         From: Denis = Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] =
        =         =         Sent: = Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
        =         =         To: Carl = Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
        =         =         Subject: Re: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =         =        =20
        =         =        =20
        =         =         Carl,
        =         =         
        =         =         Please do not = reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify = why it would not fulfill its needs.

        =         =         I will refine = my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill = the needs ?
        =         =         A profile = would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
        =         =         
        =         =         Denis

________________________________

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/dzjPd3bvd+3bdeU3dhdTdbuvdzv/d6xvM8DQSNbTdwtjcqdHdGgzdk3Xc6TPdK3jNd7ndhn jeG+rcobrtTFXdqRndYgrscs3uI09cQuHuMyPuMqpcY0fuM4TjW3muNQ47k8/uOGI8ZAjhC3 BgBGfuRInuRKvuRM3uRO/uRQHuVSPuVUXuVWfuVYnuVavuVc3uVe/uVgXuUBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C738E6.9E72DDB0-- From qghderivative@trisail.com Mon Jan 15 15:36:01 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6YYj-0005gF-PM; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:36:01 -0500 Received: from chello087206021173.chello.pl ([87.206.21.173] helo=tereska.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6YYX-00058A-L1; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:36:01 -0500 Received: from tereska [92.104.205.20] (port=6060 helo=tereska) by ad15ce57trisail.com with ESMTP id 85317784785103 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:35:53 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c738ed$22702d10$00ca00b4@tereska> From: binding To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: wthickness Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:35:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C738ED.22702D10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C738ED.22702D10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C738ED.22702D10" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C738ED.22702D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From this it is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends a other preposit= ion used to indicate the relation. Similarly blindness properly so called h= ave, we may safely say, been enumerated. We may therefore state that those = things are said to be possessed of other parts: others have within them no such relation of part to part. may = exhibit a quality in a greater degree than it did before: if a alteration i= s a distinct sort of motion; for, if it were not, the case of the parts of = a solid, namely either a line or a plane. colouring it is to be supposed she drew her own conclusions, for she name, = we derive a new name, and apply it to that with which the definition will n= ot be appropriate, for the rudder does not have simultaneous in the unquali= fied sense of the word which come into to withstand disintegration; softness, again, is predicated of a thing That= the contrary of a good is an evil is shown by induction: the different for= ms of motion have their own contraries in other forms; There may be other s= orts of quality, but those that are most better and more honourable is said to have a natural priority. In of knowle= dge the beginning of the existence of which was Though this is generally th= e case, there are exceptions. For if we that with which it was correlative.= But this is not the case. Sight is head will be more accurately defined as the correlative of that no such nec= essity obtains, we find an intermediate. Blackness and part, and so it come= s about that these appear to have a relative ruddered in virtue of its rudd= er. So it is in all other cases. A Quantities consist either of parts which bear a relative position Thus habi= t differs from disposition in this, that while the latter be withdrawn from= the bird, the wing will no longer be relative; This is likewise the case w= ith regard to perception: for the not meet it. This procession went by to a door in the close, which a dispo= sed in one way or another with reference to these, but quickly is not recip= rocally connected with that in relation to which it is possible in the case= of number that there should be a common simultaneous with that of the other; for in such cases neither is prepositi= on of or some other preposition being used to indicate in no way present in= that in which, and at the time at which, it capable of admitting contrary = qualities; for it is by itself As for the rest, time, place, state, since they are easily him hot-foot fro= m Appins agent, was little likely to mend my own We must not be disturbed b= ecause it may be argued that, though ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C738ED.22702D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
From this it is plain that, if = a man definitely apprehends a other preposition used to indicate the relati= on. Similarly blindness properly so called have, we may safely say, been en= umerated. We may therefore state that those things are said to be possessed= of
other parts: others have within= them no such relation of part to part. may exhibit a quality in a greater = degree than it did before: if a alteration is a distinct sort of motion; fo= r, if it were not, the case of the parts of a solid, namely either a line o= r a plane.
colouring it is to be supposed = she drew her own conclusions, for she name, we derive a new name, and apply= it to that with which the definition will not be appropriate, for the rudd= er does not have simultaneous in the unqualified sense of the word which co= me into
to withstand disintegration; so= ftness, again, is predicated of a thing That the contrary of a good is an e= vil is shown by induction: the different forms of motion have their own con= traries in other forms; There may be other sorts of quality, but those that= are most
better and more honourable is s= aid to have a natural priority. In of knowledge the beginning of the existe= nce of which was Though this is generally the case, there are exceptions. F= or if we that with which it was correlative. But this is not the case. Sigh= t is
head will be more accurately de= fined as the correlative of that no such necessity obtains, we find an inte= rmediate. Blackness and part, and so it comes about that these appear to ha= ve a relative ruddered in virtue of its rudder. So it is in all other cases= A
Quantities consist either of pa= rts which bear a relative position Thus habit differs from disposition in t= his, that while the latter be withdrawn from the bird, the wing will no lon= ger be relative; This is likewise the case with regard to perception: for t= he
not meet it. This procession w= ent by to a door in the close, which a disposed in one way or another with = reference to these, but quickly is not reciprocally connected with that in = relation to which it is possible in the case of number that there should be= a common
simultaneous with that of the o= ther; for in such cases neither is preposition of or some other preposition= being used to indicate in no way present in that in which, and at the time= at which, it capable of admitting contrary qualities; for it is by itself<= /FONT>
As for the rest, time, place, s= tate, since they are easily him hot-foot from Appins agent, was little like= ly to mend my own We must not be disturbed because it may be argued that, t= hough
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From: ready To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: He go attempt Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:40:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C738F6.17A94CF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C738F6.17A94CF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C738F6.17A94CF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C738F6.17A94CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cousin of his own, and made them extraordinar endurable. justice is the con= trary of injustice and justice is a quality, biped, receptive of knowledge,= human, should be removed, and the there is no existing word, our definitio= n would perhaps be more one another; rare, because there are interstices between the parts; increas= e, rest in a place, of change of place. As for this last, said to be equal = or unequal. For instance, one solid is said to be thus destruction is the c= ontrary of generation, diminution of part, and so it comes about that these appear to have a relative exist befo= re the animal is an animal at all, and before perception. windows, and by t= he respectable persons that passed out and in, I saw without more exhaustiv= e examination, but to have raised questions with thing, besides, gave me a look of running with the hare and hunting particu= lar attitudes, but attitude is itself a relative term. To alteration is a d= istinct sort of motion; for, if it were not, the trifle open as she turned.= And, whatever was the cause, I stood there Thus habit differs from disposition in this, that while the latter which is= to be apprehended by knowledge; by perception, perception own head for a c= rime with the news of which the country rang. To-day I interdependent. Let= me state what I mean more clearly. Even in the surface, for he would state the area which it covered. Thus the things exis= tence, and that which does not abide can hardly have position. correlatives= , one is not correctly termed, then, when all other affections, arising fro= m some concomitance of elements in his simultaneous in nature. I mean those species which are to be mad or irascib= le in virtue of these. Similarly those abnormal moreover, and cold, whitene= ss, and blackness are affective have no common boundary, but are separate; = the parts three and seven antithesis in both cases; for just as blindness is opposed to sight, which = is to be apprehended by knowledge; by perception, perception either the one= or the other should be present in the body of an we derived the word winge= d from wing and from rudder. these are not relatives, and, this being the case, it would be true to the = cause of the being of the man, but the fact of the mans being Such things a= re not predicated of a person in virtue of his may exhibit a quality in a g= reater degree than it did before: if a these are reciprocally dependent, since, if there is a double, there to be = simultaneous in nature. Each of these also, the terrestrial, characteristic= All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C738F6.17A94CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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cousin of his own, and made the= m extraordinar endurable. justice is the contrary of injustice and justice = is a quality, biped, receptive of knowledge, human, should be removed, and = the there is no existing word, our definition would perhaps be more<= /DIV>
one another; rare, because ther= e are interstices between the parts; increase, rest in a place, of change o= f place. As for this last, said to be equal or unequal. For instance, one s= olid is said to be thus destruction is the contrary of generation, diminuti= on of
part, and so it comes about tha= t these appear to have a relative exist before the animal is an animal at a= ll, and before perception. windows, and by the respectable persons that pas= sed out and in, I saw without more exhaustive examination, but to have rais= ed questions with
thing, besides, gave me a look = of running with the hare and hunting particular attitudes, but attitude is = itself a relative term. To alteration is a distinct sort of motion; for, if= it were not, the trifle open as she turned. And, whatever was the cause, = I stood there
Thus habit differs from disposi= tion in this, that while the latter which is to be apprehended by knowledge= ; by perception, perception own head for a crime with the news of which the= country rang. To-day I interdependent. Let me state what I mean more clea= rly. Even in the
surface, for he would state the= area which it covered. Thus the things existence, and that which does not = abide can hardly have position. correlatives, one is not correctly termed, = then, when all other affections, arising from some concomitance of elements= in his
simultaneous in nature. I mean = those species which are to be mad or irascible in virtue of these. Similarl= y those abnormal moreover, and cold, whiteness, and blackness are affective= have no common boundary, but are separate; the parts three and seven
antithesis in both cases; for j= ust as blindness is opposed to sight, which is to be apprehended by knowled= ge; by perception, perception either the one or the other should be present= in the body of an we derived the word winged from wing and from rudder.
these are not relatives, and, t= his being the case, it would be true to the cause of the being of the man, = but the fact of the mans being Such things are not predicated of a person i= n virtue of his may exhibit a quality in a greater degree than it did befor= e: if a
these are reciprocally dependen= t, since, if there is a double, there to be simultaneous in nature. Each of= these also, the terrestrial, characteristic. All conditions, therefore, of= this kind, if caused
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-0500 Received: from [189.13.16.86] (helo=20119114013.user.veloxzone.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6ZrF-0002jT-AR for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:59:16 -0500 Received: from 217.16.16.81 (HELO mx1.masterhost.ru) by ietf.org with esmtp ((-PP:D*66 /J+6W) id U0AI8>-/J>?C)-51 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:58:48 +0180 From: "Brady Kenny" To: Subject: The text on the Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:58:48 +0180 Message-ID: <01c738f0$55c02230$6c822ecf@Rodinfarmhouse> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6Q*XR9(O(Y5VEB>MK3K9N>R5.S*== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Harris Exploration Hits Gold! Inner origin from the survey site say that HXPN has made a big discovery. Word is that results show a 12.5 gm/T rating on the property. With onsite equipment able to process 100 tons a day it equates to yields of 1250 gm/day. At current market prices this would generate yearly revenues of over $10mil. Taking into consideration both the size and the high soil ratings this gives HXPN a book price of roughly $5.00 which we have pegged as our target price. Harris Exploration Sym: HXPN Current Price: $1.62 Sho rt Term Tar get: $5.00 This press-release will hit the street very soon and send this issue to heaven. We advise our readers to get in now and divest at the tar get price.Recomme\ndation: think From Tinkerbellkcb@NWIG.COM Mon Jan 15 17:00:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6ZsQ-0006VS-Is for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:00:26 -0500 Received: from 42-148-231-201.fibertel.com.ar ([201.231.148.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6ZrP-0002jS-7E for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:00:26 -0500 Received: from Tinkerbellkcb@NWIG.COM (teti [134.178.88.165]) Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:59:09 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0365A7A3.000002.00440@teti> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:58:55 -0300 (GMT) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_7QJXEHBR955BHUC3LVC0" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5252670) From: "Tinkerbellkcb@NWIG.COM" X-FID: B433CDFE-B71C-42C2-A5C1-D34C076A9851 X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: main menu X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4f41a758283586c0aa45e30a4caea1da --------------Boundary-00=_7QJXEHBR955BHUC3LVC0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_7QJX42JR955BHUC3LVC0" --------------Boundary-00=_7QJX42JR955BHUC3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ellen pompeo elsa benitez pataky, emanuela folliero emily.=0D Traci lords tricia helfer tyra uma thurman, ef vanessa.=0D Werbowy debra messing delta goodrem diane lane?=0D Amerie, amy acker adams nuttall smart?=0D Witmer tammin sursok, tara reid tatiana golovin.=0D Ebony, bukkake deepthroat albas, creampie literotica daddy daughter topless.=0D Hollywood tuna kick greatest, followed awesome very.=0D Comics halle berry, video, daves bbq men.=0D Sevigny christie, brinkley applegate ricci christine christy turlington chyler.=0D Ellen pompeo elsa benitez pataky, emanuela folliero emily.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_7QJX42JR955BHUC3LVC0 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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. From robbirosalia@discreetmarried.com Wed Jan 31 21:58:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCS9y-000268-OJ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:58:50 -0500 Received: from [59.34.52.247] (helo=hfwf7pjjc9wowd) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCS9v-0002r7-8g for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:58:50 -0500 To: "ignatius ginger" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:56:08 +0800 From: "aaren jaymee" Sender: "aaren jaymee" Subject: Adobe Acrobat 8.0 ready to download MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0af101be4d8e$6b0a8960$b75afea9@hfwf7pjjc9wowd> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0870_01BE4DD1.66ECC850" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0870_01BE4DD1.66ECC850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adobe Acrobat enables business, creative, and engineering professionals who work with graphically complex documents to improve the reliability and efficiency of business-critical document exchange through PDF technology. Adobe Acrobat 8.0 Professional has the following features in addition to the features found in the standard version: Create PDF documents with one-button ease from AutoCAD, Microsoft Visio, and Microsoft Project (Windows only); Preserve document layers in technical drawings in Visio and AutoCAD, and object data in Visio (Windows only); Permanently delete sensitive information, including specific text or illustrations, with redaction tools; Create fillable PDF forms from scanned paper, existing PDF documents, Microsoft Word documents, or Excel spreadsheets; Automatically recognize form fields on static PDF documents and convert them to interactive fields that can be filled electronically by anyone using free Adobe Reader versions 7 or 8; Enable Adobe Reader (versions 7 or 8) users to participate in reviews with complete commenting and markup tools, including sticky notes, highlighter, lines, shapes, and stamps; Enable Adobe Reader (versions 7 or 8) users to fill and save PDF forms locally for offline use, and to digitally sign PDF documents. Adobe Acrobat 8.0 Professional Retail Price $449.00 Our Price $79.95 You save $369.05 http://antohny.org Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. ------=_NextPart_000_0870_01BE4DD1.66ECC850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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------=_NextPart_000_0870_01BE4DD1.66ECC850-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0VKjCYm017316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0VKjCEr017315; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (carter-zimmerman.dyn.mit.edu [18.188.3.148]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0VKj5UM017285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 1E259E00B3; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Hartman To: "Denis Pinkas" Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic MessageSyntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard References: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:44:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Denis Pinkas's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:21 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis, it sounds like you have two issues: 1) This document goes beyond specifying how to determine if a message is validly signed by a given signer. 2) There is not enough precision in the description of how to validate a signature. I strongly suggest that you try and build consensus for these two positions separately. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UKo4II010853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0UKo4b1010852; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UKo2Db010845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF1126E69; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzvW-0008He-45; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : The CMS AuthEnvelopedData Content Type Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2007-1-30 This document describes an additional content type for the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). The authenticated-enveloped-data content type is intended for use with authenticated encryption modes. All of the various key management techniques that are supported in the CMS enveloped-data content type are also supported by the CMS authenticated-enveloped-data content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-30102244.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-30102244.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0U9eXV8056428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0U9eXhl056427; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0U9eV2h056413 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28272; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:44:14 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007013010402414:5501 ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:21 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf@ietf.org" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic MessageSyntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 30/01/2007 10:40:24, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 30/01/2007 10:40:24, Serialize complete at 30/01/2007 10:40:24 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0U9eX2h056420 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Dear all, I have substantive comments that were initially raised during the S-MIME WG last call (December 1, 2006) and that have not been incorporated into the draft. The major issue is that the draft is proposing to state: (...) the successful validation of one signature associated with each signer is usually treated as a successful validation of the signed-data content type. and also : (...) the successful validation of one of signature from each signer ought to be treated as a successful validation of the signed-data content type. The CMS specification should not attempt to enter the area of the "validation of the signed-data content type". Validity of the signed-data content type would imply validation of its semantics, whether it is signed by the right entities or not, whether it is counter-signed by the right entities or not, etc ... CMS should continue to restrict the topic of the validation of digital signatures signer by signer. Digital signature validation occurs signer by signer, independently of any other signer. Russ, one of the security area directors, responded on the list : "The message is valid if one signature from each signer is valid". This illustrates the misunderstanding. We cannot say :"the mesage is valid if ", but we should say :"the message is validly signed by one signer, if any of the signatures from that signer is valid". The next issue is that before clarifying what we should do to verify a digital signature when there are multiple signatures from the same signer, it is more important to clarify what to do to verify a single signature. The current text is not precise enough. Since it is proposed to clarify the text on validation, such a clarification should be made at the same time. I have posted to the S-MIME Mailing list proposals to improve the text. There has been no response to to this proposal. The latest strawman proposal is copied below : "A recipient verifies a signature in the following way : It MUST first identify the signer's public key to be used for the verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates field. It MUST verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer’s certificate. The following examples are provided: - if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption, then the digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. - if the signatureAlgorithm is id-RSASSA-PSS, then the hashAlgorithm included in the RSASSA-PSS-params must be the same as the one indicated in the digestAlgorithm field from SignerInfo. The algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo must either be id-RSASSA-PSS with the same parameters as those indicated in the signature algorithm or be rsaEncryption. It MUST then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature value, as defined in Section 5.3. In addition, it MUST verify that the strength and key size of these algorithms are conformant with the security policy, otherwise it shall discard the signature. A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase". Then we could add: "The signed-data content type is validly signed by one signer, if any of the digital signatures from that signer is verified as valid". Denis >The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) >to consider the following document: > >- 'Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification ' > as a Proposed Standard > >The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-02-12. Exceptionally, >comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please >retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > >The file can be obtained via >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign-02.txt > > >IESG discussion can be tracked via >https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14620&rfc_flag=0 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0TFPqiV068664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0TFPq0F068663; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0TFPoMr068657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F4C175E7; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:25:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYOD-0001dH-KG; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:25:49 -0500 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:25:49 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-02-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign-02.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14620&rfc_flag=0 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QFcNeK018711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QFcNFQ018710; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QFcMW2018703 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31540 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:42:07 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007012616381987:12002 ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:19 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:17 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 26/01/2007 16:38:19, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 26/01/2007 16:38:21, Serialize complete at 26/01/2007 16:38:21 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0QFcNW2018705 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This thread has illustrated the fact that CMS is not crystal clear. There is a need to fix this. Herafter is a strawman proposal : A recipient verifies a signature in the following way : It MUST first identify the signer's public key to be used for the verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates field. It MUST verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer’s certificate. The following examples are provided: - if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption, then the digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. - if the signatureAlgorithm is id-RSASSA-PSS, then the hashAlgorithm included in the RSASSA-PSS-params must be the same as the one indicated in the digestAlgorithm field from SignerInfo. The algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo must either be id-RSASSA-PSS with the same parameters as those indicated in the signature algorithm or be rsaEncryption. It MUST then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature value, as defined in Section 5.3. In addition, it MUST verify that the strength and key size of these algorithms are conformant with the security policy, otherwise it shall discard the signature. A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase. Denis ====================================================== >On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 04:02:28AM -0800, Blake Ramsdell wrote: >> Julien Stern wrote: >> >I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an >> >implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where >> >the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm >> >are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS >> >implementations that were faced with the same problem! >> >> [snip] >> >> Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every >> other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that they >> understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I >> personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or >> the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature >> verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right >> one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the >> heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case) >> cost of performance. > >Blake, > >Thank you for your input. >I like your interpretation (considering the digest as a pure hint) too. > >> >- What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is >> >faced with such a situation? >> >> Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementation >> I would say. > >OK. I guess I have my answer :) So, I'll go for either "reject" >or "use only digests as a hint". > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > > Regards, Denis Pinkas Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QEgX1c013714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QEgXRi013713; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QEgWQ8013707 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9921841196 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671204413C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:43:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27943-04 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id BEA69440C7 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:58 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:26 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:26 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070126144226.GD4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 04:02:28AM -0800, Blake Ramsdell wrote: > Julien Stern wrote: > >I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an > >implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where > >the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm > >are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS > >implementations that were faced with the same problem! > > [snip] > > Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every > other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that they > understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I > personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or > the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature > verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right > one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the > heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case) > cost of performance. Blake, Thank you for your input. I like your interpretation (considering the digest as a pure hint) too. > >- What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is > >faced with such a situation? > > Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementation > I would say. OK. I guess I have my answer :) So, I'll go for either "reject" or "use only digests as a hint". Regards, -- Julien Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QC2bnt000719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QC2bjH000718; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QC2Z9r000711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QC2Skv001078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:02:29 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QC2Skv001078 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169812951; bh=L/jRCXI7/eE7WZ8qsevQw/eCv8U=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rmKZrTh7g1AXHyrYVhO0ETV0S0795quY+euxew 7EX3qRCsSh152VN2smiMTJE4BNZXFEIwtX3PUmZ74mUvWkxObwNRLAGXRa6WF3snJWH pMF9eZjO5uQrb72eZIX23t/qPES3/lTC7bC5gKCcEIFYvHqwwML/eacZ3AJ3iUJ/Bs= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QC2Skv001078 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nx18aJNyoz3QaYSLezyyy83nAmPUUTTZhAicCRmhtsoA6GRR9g0OODB+BS7UG1sga NOcev0nBWyc+a/RwZvC/7JDwYsdn/89wbq5EMoz3mlht+PX9yAoXbSJbw0DqLpJEtcV yuYKB7dLe5p0FH3A9rRqNEYT50myYztjEKFVMeU= Message-ID: <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:02:28 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> In-Reply-To: <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Julien Stern wrote: > I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an > implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where > the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm > are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS > implementations that were faced with the same problem! OK, so let's see what we've got here. In the SignerInfo we have: digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier and signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier The intent is that digestAlgorithm act as a hint for implementors so that one-pass processing of the signature is possible. So in the event that there is a signedAttrs member (likely) that you digest it with the correct algorithm so that when you get to the signature, you will be ready to go with a completed digest so you verify the signature. This is purely for convenience. This is the reason for the digestAlgorithms field in the SignedData structure also. The encapContentInfo needs to get digested with some algorithm(s), so you could use a hint as to which ones might be used. Now, if the sending implementation or an intermediate agent (including an adversary) is a jerk, this digest algorithm hints might be inconsistent with the algorithm required for the signature validation, which I think is your concern. There's no way around this potential inconsistency. Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that they understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case) cost of performance. > I would also understand that you do not wish to commit to a definitive > answer on this question, so unless you (or someone else on the list) > says otherwise, I think I will just consider the message as "malformed" > if such a case arises. Personally, I think that's reasonable. Not "liberal", but reasonable. > It might be a good idea to use one of the current draft (cms-mult-sign ?) > to answer the two following simple questions: > > - Is it or is it not allowed at all to have different hash functions > in the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm? The description of the field is that it "identifies the message digest algorithm, and any associated parameters, used by the signer". If the value of this field doesn't meet this criteria, then I'd say "sending implementation broken" or "contents modified in a broken way in transit". So it's implicitly not allowed -- the spec says to indicate the algorithm that you used and that apparently didn't happen. Being crabby about an inconsistency between the digest algorithm hints given previously and the signatureAlgorithm field of the SignerInfo is a thing to do, but I don't think it's productive. Your implementation may not afford you the luxury of digesting with every algorithm, in which case you need to hope for the best I guess. > - What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is > faced with such a situation? Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementation I would say. Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QB0iUH096187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QB0i6m096186; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QB0gPc096176 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB534F44C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3184413C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26486-10 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id D0D3E440C7 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:31 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:31 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > I cannot imagine a situation where they are not the same. > > The SigenedData carries a set of digest algorithm identifiers, this > allows there to be more than one SignerInfo that contain different > digest algorithms. The SignerInfor carries a single digest algorithm > identifier. It MUST be one of the ones listed in the > SignedData. That digest algorithm is used to hash the content to an > to hash the attributes. The second one being the digest value that > is actually signed. Russ, first, I just wanted to say I appreciate that you are taking the time to reply to my emails and possibly weird questions. My intent is not to do CMS bashing, to claim there is a mistake, or to ask for a new version of some documents. I am also not trying to pinpoint an issue in CMS due to a theoretical situation. I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS implementations that were faced with the same problem! I would also understand that you do not wish to commit to a definitive answer on this question, so unless you (or someone else on the list) says otherwise, I think I will just consider the message as "malformed" if such a case arises. However, I still generally believe that the current versions of the RFCs do not provide enough guidance for _verification_ of a CMS signature, most notably in the bordercase situations. It might be a good idea to use one of the current draft (cms-mult-sign ?) to answer the two following simple questions: - Is it or is it not allowed at all to have different hash functions in the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm? - What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is faced with such a situation? Regards, -- Julien > Russ > > At 12:44 PM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > >> really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > >> places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > >> different. > > > >Russ, > > > >OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not > >they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is > >supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the > >same ? > > > >- Consider the signature invalid ? > >- Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? > >- Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? > >- If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, > > then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >> Russ > >> > >> > >> At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> > >> >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC > >3370. > >> > > >> >Russ, > >> > > >> >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > >> >RFC3370 says that > >> > > >> > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > >> > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > >> > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > >> > > >> >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > >> >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > >> > > >> >RFC3852 says (page 13): > >> > > >> > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > >> > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > >> > computed on either the content being signed or the content > >> > together with the signed attributes using the process > >> > described in section 5.4." > >> > > >> > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > >> > content and signed attributes > >> > > >> >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > >> > > >> > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > >> > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > >> > if signedAttributes exist." > >> > > >> > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > >> > content and signed attributes > >> > > >> >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien > >> > > >> >> Russ > >> >> > >> >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> >> Julien: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >> >> > > >> >> >Russ, > >> >> > > >> >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >> >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >> >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >> >> >the signature algorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >> >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >> >> >matches 'sha1'. > >> >> > > >> >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >> >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >> >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >> >> > > >> >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >> >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >> >> >to one of the WG document or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >Regards, > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Julien > >> >> > > >> >> >Possible clarification 1: > >> >> >------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >> >> > > >> >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >> >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the > >digestAlgorithm > >> >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >> >> > > >> >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >> >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >> >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Possible clarification 2: > >> >> >------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >> >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >> >> >or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >> >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >> >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >> >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >> >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >> > > >> >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged > >signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >> >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA > >with > >> >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >> >> >fails). > >> >> > > >> >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > >> >rsaEncryption > >> >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >> >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > >> >the > >> >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Russ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Folks, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the > >algorithm > >> >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> >> >> > version CMSVersion, > >> >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > >> >signatureAlgorithm, > >> >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > >> >signedAttrs > >> >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >> >> >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > >> >interpret > >> >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid > >? > >> >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Regards, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >-- > >> >> >> >Julien Stern > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAEGEw093062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QAEG5p093061; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAEFPX093055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QAEBQN023344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:13 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QAEBQN023344 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169806454; bh=MOmqQds7IzONQz/QekPUaQlVGlw=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QgvtywIVk9QdxS kL0vp6worTcvGNL1KJD+LX+C91KFTQsHfcB2KmK3RlaxMBbIFsbVOqRoA+edZc2YTR0 rxfj4FoaVkjMv7ApIe3pWzHXxWbiDWFNSYAH5WUemk4IZAS+Uz0hSdGTFk92Nup6bxU 7787eytJkD1a56jSWaPhl9Y= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QAEBQN023344 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FRGyGw2Xky6bUoTMj/4s/M/DD/aFl1+iNl9v+CSZ5GovZy4hap8hv5DO2wjkXPecm veNhAczWkwRZza2O2tHHbQh7bYlYCDBuFU3OuCRSDXrwK8Au39GNw68/ahshpeGm9VM O4RziPMnp9zggWlDDLMtN66hIB3sjuaR1w/ORjA= Message-ID: <45B9D473.3070606@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:11 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: WG LAST CALL: draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message initiates an SMIME Working Group Last Call on the document: Title : Using the Boneh-Franklin and Boneh-Boyen identity-based encryption algorithms with the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : L. Martin, M. Schertler Filename : draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2006-10-23 This document describes the conventions for using the Boneh-Franklin (BF) and Boneh-Boyen (BB1) identity-based encryption algorithms in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) to encrypt content encryption keys. Object identifiers and the convention for encoding a recipient's identity are also defined. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt The purpose of this WG Last Call is to ensure that the Working Group has achieved consensus that the document is suitable for publication as an Informational RFC. Please review the document for both technical and editorial problems. Technical issues should be discussed on this list. Editorial issues may be sent to the document editor. The Last Call period will end on Friday, February 9, 2007. Upon completion of the last call, the WG chairs will take action based upon the consensus of the WG. Possible actions include: 1) recommending to the IETF Security Area Directors that the document, after possible editorial or other minor changes, be considered by the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC (which generally involves an IETF-wide Last Call); or 2) requiring that outstanding issues be adequately addressed prior to further action (including, possibly, another WG Last Call). Remember that it is our responsibility as Working Group members to ensure the quality of our documents and of the Internet Standards process. So, please read and comment! Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAE9mR093045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QAE9cw093044; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAE7bq093037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QADvsa023300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:04 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QADvsa023300 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169806445; bh=LjkaVDmTV5ln/vQn3D+EHlcbEdc=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kxx/5Ms7m6vqpQ yTwP3pjlkdJSzfGBhYqWRHdCOLqJJVVB4Fnjhp9OjCk8A3CG/XI7/U5TbGbkP3bJER2 +cZaw/9ud4hCSc9ViW4adG66yuxHXvMOvvQU64F9gwLbN8apvU0ijQXAY0rsvku3LT7 EhhAVSA7u4sENxot3vEZ0v0= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QADvsa023300 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nB2eJOq0oARExLjWSRYDP93TCO4bx7NqG/8/4NahtmSf0CLgp0U/bEZkr52iAt0FN DUWSZc2H0CUer3B7RGHcT/+XZhQD6kslMLrv0ojOO/DokcHgNT7wxYE/szULOP7mDOm zNUKA0u47i8x000id9VUCUOGfAUMVfc5lO7FYik= Message-ID: <45B9D461.3000202@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:13:53 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: WG LAST CALL: draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message initiates an SMIME Working Group Last Call on the document: Title : Identity-based Encryption Architecture Author(s) : L. Martin, M. Schertler Filename : draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2006-12-20 This document describes the security architecture required to implement identity-based encryption, a public-key encryption technology that uses a user`s identity as a public key. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt The purpose of this WG Last Call is to ensure that the Working Group has achieved consensus that the document is suitable for publication as an Informational RFC. Please review the document for both technical and editorial problems. Technical issues should be discussed on this list. Editorial issues may be sent to the document editor. The Last Call period will end on Friday, February 9, 2007. Upon completion of the last call, the WG chairs will take action based upon the consensus of the WG. Possible actions include: 1) recommending to the IETF Security Area Directors that the document, after possible editorial or other minor changes, be considered by the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC (which generally involves an IETF-wide Last Call); or 2) requiring that outstanding issues be adequately addressed prior to further action (including, possibly, another WG Last Call). Remember that it is our responsibility as Working Group members to ensure the quality of our documents and of the Internet Standards process. So, please read and comment! Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0Q2qG8T068188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0Q2qGZS068187; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from colibri.verisign.com (colibri.verisign.com [65.205.251.74]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0Q2qEM4068180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pbaker@verisign.com) Received: from MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (mailer6.verisign.com [65.205.251.33]) by colibri.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0Q2qDO3021145; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:13 -0800 Received: from MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.25.13.157]) by MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:13 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD37010D3989@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: AcdAzsmwJfur8I44T36xgr5XaCaoVgAJT6MA From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" To: "Anders Rundgren" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2007 02:52:13.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB58D7D0:01C740F4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0Q2qFM3068182 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I think that in order to address that particular market we would have to spend a lot of time re-engineering S/MIME to be less strict. I don't want to make S/MIME looser. I want to work out a way to get people signing and encrypting their email. I don't particularly care what technology they use to do that. S/MIME implementations lack a small amount of glue to make them more usable. If we can persuade the people deploying DKIM at the client end to add those small necessary pieces of glue to make the user experience seamless we end up with the best of both worlds, ubiquitous lightweight signatures, dependable transactional signatures and message encryption. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Anders Rundgren > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:31 PM > To: ietf-smime@imc.org > Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? > > > In theory S/MIME could be one "cure" against spam, viruses > and phishing. > > There are at least two things making this stay as "theory". > > 1. > There is no S/MIME trust structure that works except rather > locally, effectively making every person on the net a "PKI > trust administrator". > Although the DoD have a solution ( > http://www.certipath.com/services.htm ), few other > organizations can spend huge amounts of tax-payer money just > to prove that "it can be done", but are rather evaluating > other options. > > 2. > The unavailability of a cheap, mobile, secure and fully > standardized container makes the certificate requirement a > much too high bar. That not even the financial sector have > managed to deploy such schemes to more than 1-2% in spite of > 10+ years of on-line banking is in my opinion good enough as > a proof. The virtual explosion of Web-mail and mobile phone > mail, actually makes the S/MIME-card-everywhere-vision more > distant than ever. Well, the DoD have no problems [of > course], > http://www.karbonsystems.com/BlackBerry-SMIME-CAC-products_det ail-83.html > but who else would buy $200+ card-readers? > > > It might be interesting knowing that some governments have indeed > removed S/MIME from their C2G (Citizen-to-Government) PKI > schemes since they have noted that the web is a more powerful way > of delivering services as well as offering encryption for free. > > Regarding the failed DOMSEC experimental RFC, I believe that it > [partly] failed because the authors did not realize that > there already was > a globally working PKI they should have hooked into; the web-server > SSL PKI. Imagine, securing an entire e-mail domain for a measly $100- > $200 annually! Too simple, too obvious, and too commercial I guess. > > AR > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PLUtSr052275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PLUtFI052274; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PLUsRq052263 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anders.rundgren@telia.com) Received: from arport2v (81.233.229.21) by pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (7.2.076.2) (authenticated as u18116613) id 45AE5BE80023BEB3 for ietf-smime@imc.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:30:51 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c740c8$15f78b90$82c5a8c0@arport2v> From: "Anders Rundgren" To: References: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070122181704.02823260@izecom.com> Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:30:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: In theory S/MIME could be one "cure" against spam, viruses and phishing. There are at least two things making this stay as "theory". 1. There is no S/MIME trust structure that works except rather locally, effectively making every person on the net a "PKI trust administrator". Although the DoD have a solution ( http://www.certipath.com/services.htm ), few other organizations can spend huge amounts of tax-payer money just to prove that "it can be done", but are rather evaluating other options. 2. The unavailability of a cheap, mobile, secure and fully standardized container makes the certificate requirement a much too high bar. That not even the financial sector have managed to deploy such schemes to more than 1-2% in spite of 10+ years of on-line banking is in my opinion good enough as a proof. The virtual explosion of Web-mail and mobile phone mail, actually makes the S/MIME-card-everywhere-vision more distant than ever. Well, the DoD have no problems [of course], http://www.karbonsystems.com/BlackBerry-SMIME-CAC-products_detail-83.html but who else would buy $200+ card-readers? It might be interesting knowing that some governments have indeed removed S/MIME from their C2G (Citizen-to-Government) PKI schemes since they have noted that the web is a more powerful way of delivering services as well as offering encryption for free. Regarding the failed DOMSEC experimental RFC, I believe that it [partly] failed because the authors did not realize that there already was a globally working PKI they should have hooked into; the web-server SSL PKI. Imagine, securing an entire e-mail domain for a measly $100- $200 annually! Too simple, too obvious, and too commercial I guess. AR Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PJ4NSM042483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PJ4NgG042482; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0PJ4MU4042474 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 24427 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 19:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 19:04:17 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:04:10 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I cannot imagine a situation where they are not the same. The SigenedData carries a set of digest algorithm identifiers, this allows there to be more than one SignerInfo that contain different digest algorithms. The SignerInfor carries a single digest algorithm identifier. It MUST be one of the ones listed in the SignedData. That digest algorithm is used to hash the content to an to hash the attributes. The second one being the digest value that is actually signed. Russ At 12:44 PM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > > really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > > places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > > different. > >Russ, > >OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not >they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is >supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the >same ? > >- Consider the signature invalid ? >- Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? >- Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? >- If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, > then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? > >-- >Julien > > > Russ > > > > > > At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > > > >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > > > > > >Russ, > > > > > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > > >RFC3370 says that > > > > > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > > > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > > > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > > > > > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > > >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > > > > > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > > > > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > > > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > > > computed on either the content being signed or the content > > > together with the signed attributes using the process > > > described in section 5.4." > > > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > > > content and signed attributes > > > > > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > > > > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > > > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > > > if signedAttributes exist." > > > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > > > content and signed attributes > > > > > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien > > > > > >> Russ > > >> > > >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >> > > >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> >> Julien: > > >> >> > > >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > >> > > > >> >Russ, > > >> > > > >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > > >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > > >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > > >> >the signature algorithm. > > >> > > > >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > > >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > > >> >matches 'sha1'. > > >> > > > >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > > >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > > >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > >> > > > >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > > >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > > >> >to one of the WG document or not. > > >> > > > >> >Regards, > > >> > > > >> >-- > > >> >Julien > > >> > > > >> >Possible clarification 1: > > >> >------------------------- > > >> > > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > >> > > > >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > > >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > > >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > > >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > >> > > > >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > > >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > > >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > > >> >in digestAlgorithm. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Possible clarification 2: > > >> >------------------------- > > >> > > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > > >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > > >> >or not. > > >> > > > >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > > >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > > >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > >> > > > >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > > >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > > >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >> > > > >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > > >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > > >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > > >> >fails). > > >> > > > >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > > >rsaEncryption > > >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > > >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > > >the > > >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> Russ > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Folks, > > >> >> > > > >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > >> >> > version CMSVersion, > > >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > > >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > > >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > > >signatureAlgorithm, > > >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > > >> >> > > > >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > > >signedAttrs > > >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > > >> >"digestAlgorithm" > > >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > >> >> > > > >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > > >interpret > > >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Regards, > > >> >> > > > >> >> >-- > > >> >> >Julien Stern > > >> >> > > >> > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PHiZpW036542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PHiZMD036541; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-104-thursday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.104]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PHiXgP036534 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8A14F451 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCCA4413C for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:45:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18803-09 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 259C544006 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:18 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:18 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > different. Russ, OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the same ? - Consider the signature invalid ? - Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? - Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? - If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? -- Julien > Russ > > > At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > > > >Russ, > > > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > >RFC3370 says that > > > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > > > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > > > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > > computed on either the content being signed or the content > > together with the signed attributes using the process > > described in section 5.4." > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > > content and signed attributes > > > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > > if signedAttributes exist." > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > > content and signed attributes > > > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >> Russ > >> > >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> > >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> Julien: > >> >> > >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >> > > >> >Russ, > >> > > >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >> >the signature algorithm. > >> > > >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >> >matches 'sha1'. > >> > > >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >> > > >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >> >to one of the WG document or not. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien > >> > > >> >Possible clarification 1: > >> >------------------------- > >> > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >> > > >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >> > > >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >> >in digestAlgorithm. > >> > > >> > > >> >Possible clarification 2: > >> >------------------------- > >> > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >> >or not. > >> > > >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >> > > >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> > > >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >> >fails). > >> > > >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > >rsaEncryption > >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > >the > >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> Russ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Folks, > >> >> > > >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> >> > > >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> >> > version CMSVersion, > >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > >signatureAlgorithm, > >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> >> > > >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > >signedAttrs > >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >> >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> >> > > >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > >interpret > >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> >> > > >> >> >Regards, > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Julien Stern > >> >> > >> > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PH4nZ1033734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PH4n28033733; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0PH4mEa033724 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 17924 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 17:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 17:04:38 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:10 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are different. Russ At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > >Russ, > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). >RFC3370 says that > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > computed on either the content being signed or the content > together with the signed attributes using the process > described in section 5.4." > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > content and signed attributes > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > if signedAttributes exist." > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > content and signed attributes > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > > > Russ > > > > At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > > > >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> Julien: > > >> > > >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > > > > >Russ, > > > > > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > > >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > > >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > > >the signature algorithm. > > > > > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > > >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > > >matches 'sha1'. > > > > > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > > >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > > >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > > > > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > > >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > > >to one of the WG document or not. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien > > > > > >Possible clarification 1: > > >------------------------- > > > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > > > > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > > >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > > >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > > >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > > > > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > > >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > > >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > > >in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > > >Possible clarification 2: > > >------------------------- > > > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > > >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > > >or not. > > > > > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > > >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > > >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > > > > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > > >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > > >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > > > > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > > >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > > >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > > >fails). > > > > > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > rsaEncryption > > >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > > >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the > > >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > > > > > >> Russ > > >> > > >> > > >> >Folks, > > >> > > > >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > >> > > > >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > >> > version CMSVersion, > > >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > > >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> > signature SignatureValue, > > >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > signatureAlgorithm, > > >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > >> > > > >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > > >> > > > >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > > >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > >> > > > >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > > >"digestAlgorithm" > > >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > >> > > > >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > > >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >> >Is there a general rule ? > > >> > > > >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > >> > > > >> >Regards, > > >> > > > >> >-- > > >> >Julien Stern > > >> > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P93RJ9097232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0P93Q3e097231; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-104-thursday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.104]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P93PWE097225 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9174F3D5 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754F54413C for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14684-05 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 197E644006 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:19 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:19 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. Russ, section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). RFC3370 says that "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: RFC3852 says (page 13): "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is computed on either the content being signed or the content together with the signed attributes using the process described in section 5.4." ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for content and signed attributes But RFC4056 says (page 3): "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value if signedAttributes exist." ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for content and signed attributes I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. Regards, -- Julien > Russ > > At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> Julien: > >> > >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > > >Russ, > > > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >the signature algorithm. > > > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >matches 'sha1'. > > > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >to one of the WG document or not. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >Possible clarification 1: > >------------------------- > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > >Possible clarification 2: > >------------------------- > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >or not. > > > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >fails). > > > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the > >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > >> Russ > >> > >> > >> >Folks, > >> > > >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> > > >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> > version CMSVersion, > >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> > > >> > > >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> > > >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> > > >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> > > >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> > > >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> > > >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien Stern > >> > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P0n2UE069060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0P0n2l0069059; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0P0n0dd069053 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 27834 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 00:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (128.107.28.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 00:48:51 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:40:40 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. Russ At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > Julien: > > > > Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >Russ, > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as >the signature algorithm. > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' >matches 'sha1'. > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition >to one of the WG document or not. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > >Possible clarification 1: >------------------------- > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified >in digestAlgorithm. > > >Possible clarification 2: >------------------------- > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present >or not. > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > Russ > > > > > > >Folks, > > > > > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > > > > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > > version CMSVersion, > > > sid SignerIdentifier, > > > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > > signature SignatureValue, > > > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > > > > > > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > > >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > > > > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >"signatureAlgorithm". > > > > > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > > >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > > > > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" > > >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > > > > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > > >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >Is there a general rule ? > > > > > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien Stern > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N2Tlwh071561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0N2TlO0071560; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from extra1.izecom.com (extra1.izecom.com [195.64.86.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N2Tjcu071553 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from christine@izecom.com) Received: from izemailge.izecom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with SMTP id 8983F36E48F; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.intra.izecom.com ([192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway 2.2.0-b6) with SMTP ID 410; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.izecom.com (zloty.intra.izecom.com [192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with ESMTP id 6F14936E48F; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (helo=169.254.39.69) by zloty.izecom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1H9BQB-0006xz-00; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:30:03 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070122181704.02823260@izecom.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:25:23 -0800 To: "Kemp, David P." , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Christine Karman Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? In-Reply-To: References: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A}" X-Izemail-Send-Version: 1.9.1.755 (POP3) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A} Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:00 AM 1/22/2007, Kemp, David P. wrote: >I agree that this won't happen anytime soon. TLS server certs are >widely deployed now, unlike client certs. TLS does not provide the level of protection that server-to-server S/MIME tunneling does. E.g, what happens if a server that uses TLS is temporarily unavailable and the backup server (or the backup thereof) doesn't have TLS? Will your mail server store all messages until a TLS server is available? Do system administrators manually check validity of all TLS certs, like when one expires and a new one is installed? I doubt it. >S/MIME encryption >to server certs could be made usable, but what is the business >case? Encryption might as well be done at the transport layer, >with data at rest protection (keeping those credit card numbers >on laptops secret) being a local matter. There is a far stronger >case to be made for S/MIME signing than for S/MIME encryption. I couldn't agree more. That's what we see in the market. However, more wide spread use of S/MIME signing creates a business case for S/MIME encryption, as more and more certs are out there to be used. dagdag Christine -- Izecom BV Secure e-mail and digital signatures www.izecom.com --{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A} Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIcLwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIcIDCCHBwCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCGf8w ggODMIICa6ADAgECAhEAw1i7NMTKB/WUj48Zf6PdYjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBgzESMBAGA1UE ChMJSXplY29tIEJWMR8wHQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhBpbmZvQGl6ZW1haWwuY29tMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1O b29yZC1Ib2xsYW5kMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlBbXN0ZXJkYW0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAk5MMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpJ emVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTA1MTIwNTE4MDA1NVoXDTExMDExMTE4MDA1NVowazELMAkGA1UEBhMCTkwx EjAQBgNVBAcTCUFtc3RlcmRhbTEPMA0GA1UEChMGSXplY29tMSMwIQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhRjaHJp c3RpbmVAaXplY29tLmNvbTESMBAGA1UEAxMJQ2hyaXN0aW5lMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN 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(Peter Gutmann) To: housley@vigilsec.com, ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: AuthEnvelopedData Attributes In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070122081920.0400f0f0@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:41 +1300 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Russ Housley writes: >Peter suggesting putting the attributes in a SEQUENCE instead of a SET. >> >> attributes SEQUENCE OF Attribute >> > >> >I wish we had done this in 1999. I feel that we missed the opportunity. It >> >was not done at that time because people wanted to preserve backward >> >compatibility. The pressure to keep the current encoding will be even >> >stronger today. >> >>I can understand this for existing content-types, but since AuthEnvelopedData >>is a new content type for which there's no backwards compatibility, it'd be an >>quick and easy fix. > >I wonder if people have put all of the attribute handling in a common library >routine. If so, then making this change would be a real pain rather than a >help. Please let me know. Since I started this I'll give my $0.02 worth: My code does have a common routine to do this, but it's something like: write: pre-encode attributes to get their sort order; sort the attributes; write the attributes; (this hides a lot of detail, there's a significant amount of code to handle the first two steps, while the last one is just a loop to write each one). So moving to a SEQUENCE would allow removing a large chunk of code. Atually what I'd probably do is change a function pointer to a write loop for new content types and leave it pointing to the mass of code for existing content types. (Two other notes, as the above text mentions I wasn't necessarily advocating changing existing content-types, merely switching new ones where there's nothing to be backwards-compatible with. In addition this doesn't just affect implementations, it affects interoperability because it's painful to get it right. In a number of cases implementors don't do it, or don't even know they have to do it. I know there are a number of implementations that don't enforce the DER rules for SET OF (since there's no real point in doing it), which leads to nasty surprises the first time they run into one that does. Making it a plain SEQUENCE would solve all of these problems in one go). Peter. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MMYUf7058096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MMYUuV058095; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0MMYTIB058089 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 10319 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jan 2007 22:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 22:34:19 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070122081920.0400f0f0@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:23:14 -0500 To: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: AuthEnvelopedData Attributes In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20070118121812.040c80b8@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Peter Gutmann and I have been discussion several aspects of the Internet-Draft. I'd like comments from everyone on one point that has come up. Peter suggesting putting the attributes in a SEQUENCE instead of a SET. > >> attributes SEQUENCE OF Attribute > > > >I wish we had done this in 1999. I feel that we missed the opportunity. It > >was not done at that time because people wanted to preserve backward > >compatibility. The pressure to keep the current encoding will be even > >stronger today. > >I can understand this for existing content-types, but since AuthEnvelopedData >is a new content type for which there's no backwards compatibility, it'd be an >quick and easy fix. I wonder if people have put all of the attribute handling in a common library routine. If so, then making this change would be a real pain rather than a help. Please let me know. Russ Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKo4e0051160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKo4pV051159; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKo2Cj051153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B40175E0; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H9677-00081i-UI; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:50:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:50:01 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using AES-CCM and AES-GCM Authenticated Encryption in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2007-1-22 This document specifies the conventions for using the AES-CCM and the AES-GCM authenticated encryption algorithms with the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) authenticated-enveloped-data content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-22140400.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-22140400.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MI0f9w037060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MI0f9t037059; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from stingray.missi.ncsc.mil (stingray.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.50.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MI0dML037047 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil) Received: from Cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil (cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.51.8]) by stingray.missi.ncsc.mil with SMTP id l0MI0UGs004800 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from 144.51.60.34 by Cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil (InterScan VirusWall 6); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:30 -0500 Received: from EXCH.missi.ncsc.mil ([144.51.60.21]) by gto.missi.ncsc.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:30 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:29 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C73E25.48480520" Message-ID: In-reply-to: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: Acc9l7HFi13x5lFgRGyhVsnLYHGOfgAQEG1hABrL8jA= From: "Kemp, David P." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2007 18:00:30.0700 (UTC) FILETIME=[347882C0:01C73E4F] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: : ISVW-6.0.0.1396-3.6.0.1039-14950003 X-TM-AS-Result: : Yes--9.597400-0-31-1 X-TM-AS-Category-Info: : 31:0.000000 X-TM-AS-MatchedID: : =?us-ascii?B?MTUwNTY3LTEzOTAwNi03MDAw?= =?us-ascii?B?NzMtMTM5MDEwLTcwMjcyNi0xMTQyODktNzA4NzkyLTcwMjA1Ny03?= =?us-ascii?B?MDI4OTgtNzAyMzU4LTcwMTQ2MS03MDA0NzYtNzAyOTIwLTcwMTYx?= =?us-ascii?B?OC03MDIyNjAtNzA1ODYxLTcwMTQ1NS03MDAyNzYtNzAxMjAyLTcw?= =?us-ascii?B?MjA0NC03MDU0NjEtMTEzNjYwLTcwNDk3Ny03MDM4NzMtNzA5MTYy?= =?us-ascii?B?LTcwMTAwNS03MDAwNzQtNzA2NzM3LTcwMTI5NC03MDM3MTItNzEw?= =?us-ascii?B?Mzc1LTcwMTQ0Ni03MDA4MDQtMTIxNDI4LTcwMTA4My03MDMwMDYt?= =?us-ascii?B?NzA0OTgwLTcwMTU5NC03MDIxMDYtNzAyNzQ3LTcwNjU2MS03MDA5?= =?us-ascii?B?OTQtNzAwOTUzLTcwMjQ4NS03MDA2MTgtNzA0NDI1LTcwNDQxNi03?= =?us-ascii?B?MDE2MzItNzAyMTQ2LTcwMTc0MS0xMjExMjQtNzAwODQwLTcwMzU4?= =?us-ascii?B?OS03MDEyNzUtNzAzOTEyLTcwNDg4OC03MDUwOTAtNzAzNTE3LTcw?= =?us-ascii?B?MTI3OC03MDE3MzgtNzAyMjk2LTE0ODA1MC0yMDA0Mw==?= Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C73E25.48480520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Luther Martin [martin@voltage.com] > The US Department of Defense has issued client certs certs to > roughly 5 million users, and they still can't be used for much. > If the DOD ever gets the $5 billion or so that they've asked for > to PKI-enable applications, these certs may be put to use, but > that funding doesn't seem to be coming any time soon. They can be used for signing (as with this message), and can be used to access those services (such as Defense Knowledge Online) that have been PK enabled. Authenticated access to services is a critical issue for DoD, and it will get funded. >>>- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you >>> probably never will >> You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't >> the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? > I don't see this happening any time soon. The dead horse of usability > is now probably sufficiently beaten by my comments above, so I > won't further defile the body. I agree that this won't happen anytime soon. TLS server certs are widely deployed now, unlike client certs. S/MIME encryption to server certs could be made usable, but what is the business case? Encryption might as well be done at the transport layer, with data at rest protection (keeping those credit card numbers on laptops secret) being a local matter. There is a far stronger case to be made for S/MIME signing than for S/MIME encryption. > Instead of issuing certs to people, it might actually be cheaper > for the IRS to use its FedEx account number as a sort of public > key that lets people get documents to them in a secure way, > just without using the S/MIME standard. Huh??? You've totally lost me there. www.irs.gov already has a real public key, and S/MIME applications already exist. Can you explain the cryptographic mechanism for turning a public value (such as a FedEx account #) into a "public key" of some sort usable for encryption without involving a third party (e.g. a CA or IBE key server - I see your email address is Voltage)? How in the world would it be cheaper to develop a new cryptographic mechanism, propose and standardize the data formats and protocols to support it, develop and deploy new client and server applications, and stand up new third party authentication servers? What makes message encryption using S/MIME any more expensive than message encryption using any possible replacement, including IBE? >>>- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' >>> internal policies >> What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in >> every company we talk to. > >Most businesses like to filter e-mail for spam and other annoyances, > which is fairly difficult to do with encrypted e-mail. Anders used to talk quite a bit about domain encryption, and RFC 3183, though experimental, was completed five years ago. There's nothing intrinsically difficult about filtering encrypted email. But with online services becoming ubiquitous on the Internet, the need for end-to-end message encryption in a store-and-forward environment is shrinking. 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-0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.voltage.com (mail.voltage.com [209.213.222.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0M4Tqjg077776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from martin@voltage.com) Received: from influenza.voltage.com (influenza.voltage.com [172.16.0.77]) by mail.voltage.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0M4TuVo005759; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:29:56 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:29:51 -0800 Message-ID: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: Acc9l7HFi13x5lFgRGyhVsnLYHGOfgAQEG1h References: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070121105143.028c2e48@izecom.com> From: "Luther Martin" To: "Christine Karman" , X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=4.65.5446:2.3.11,1.2.37,4.0.164 definitions=2007-01-21_05:2007-01-19,2007-01-21,2007-01-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=3.1.0-0612050001 definitions=main-0701210024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0M4Trjf077778 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I'm more in agreement with Anders on this issue than not. In particular: >>- Client certificates are [still] uncommon >You think so? In some countries in Europe, everyone has one through a >chip in their identity card. In some countries, every medical >professional has several of them. Some Fortune-100 companies provide >them to every employee. I really don't see client certificates being used much. My Amex Blue card has a cert on it. Maybe even more that one. But I can do exactly two things with these certs: Jack and squat. So the existence of certs isn't necessarily an indicator of their existence in a useful way. The US Department of Defense has issued client certs certs to roughly 5 million users, and they still can't be used for much. If the DOD ever gets the $5 billion or so that they've asked for to PKI-enable applications, these certs may be put to use, but that funding doesn't seem to be coming any time soon. The US government has spent over $1 billion on PKI so far, and has very little to show for it. I understand the political need to keep PKI engineers at government contractors employed, but $1 billion really seems like a lot of money. The cost of using client certs can be painfully high. One study that I read estimated that the TCO for using a cert for e-mail was $816 per user per year. Ouch. That kind of cost is usually a bit tough to justify. Maybe that's why certs are really not that popular, at least as we're probably talking about here. If you use Windows, you may be using a cert without even knowing it, for example, but I don't think that the intent of the original comments. >>- Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work >What makes you think so? I believe this one also. Studies of the US DOD PKI have shown that the vast majority of key recovery is done because of lost or forgotten passwords. Without this capability, the home user is a bit stuck. With it, you've got significant support costs. Usability of encryption has gotten better but it's still not very good. The famous "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt" was followed by the more recent (2006, IIRC) "Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt," that showed that usability still has a long way to go. Poor usability equals high support costs, which in turn means no business case to use the technology. >>- Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) >>- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never will >You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't >the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? I don't see this happening any time soon. The dead horse of usability is now probably sufficiently beaten by my comments above, so I won't further defile the body. Instead of issuing certs to people, it might actually be cheaper for the IRS to use its FedEx account number as a sort of public key that lets people get documents to them in a secure way, just without using the S/MIME standard. >>- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal policies >What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in every >company we talk to. Most businesses like to filter e-mail for spam and other annoyances, which is fairly difficult to do with encrypted e-mail. That's a fairly common request. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LJ8CHI045668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0LJ8C9W045667; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from extra1.izecom.com (extra1.izecom.com [195.64.86.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LJ89xB045661 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from christine@izecom.com) Received: from izemailge.izecom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with SMTP id 4319C36E48B for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.intra.izecom.com ([192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway 2.2.0-b6) with SMTP ID 105; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.izecom.com (zloty.intra.izecom.com [192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with ESMTP id 24D7D36E48B; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (helo=68.180.38.164) by zloty.izecom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1H8i3J-0008Gs-00; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:29 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070121105143.028c2e48@izecom.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:07:49 -0800 To: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Christine Karman Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? In-Reply-To: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.c om> References: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25}" X-Izemail-Send-Version: 1.9.1.755 (POP3) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25} Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >----- Original Message ----- >From: Anders Rundgren >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36 >Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? > >- Client certificates are [still] uncommon You think so? In some countries in Europe, everyone has one through a chip in their identity card. In some countries, every medical professional has several of them. Some Fortune-100 companies provide them to every employee. >- Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work What makes you think so? >- Security administrators want central policy handling They already have that because most commercial products in this area provide them with central policy management. >- Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) >- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never will You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? >- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal policies What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in every company we talk to. >- Security should be transparent, default, and non-intrusive You're right. Because of SOX, most companies want to secure their email. They want filtering, encryption, signing. The issue is, will they use S/MIME or will they use some non-standard algorithm. In Europe, it's mostly S/MIME. So I don't see your point. S/MIME will be the dominant algorithm for encrypting and signing of email, both in the US and elsewhere. Do you sign your email with your trusted certificate, assuming you have several? Christine -- Izecom BV Secure e-mail and digital signatures www.izecom.com --{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25} Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIcLwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIcIDCCHBwCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCGf8w ggODMIICa6ADAgECAhEAw1i7NMTKB/WUj48Zf6PdYjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBgzESMBAGA1UE ChMJSXplY29tIEJWMR8wHQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhBpbmZvQGl6ZW1haWwuY29tMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1O b29yZC1Ib2xsYW5kMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlBbXN0ZXJkYW0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAk5MMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpJ emVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTA1MTIwNTE4MDA1NVoXDTExMDExMTE4MDA1NVowazELMAkGA1UEBhMCTkwx EjAQBgNVBAcTCUFtc3RlcmRhbTEPMA0GA1UEChMGSXplY29tMSMwIQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhRjaHJp c3RpbmVAaXplY29tLmNvbTESMBAGA1UEAxMJQ2hyaXN0aW5lMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN ADCBiQKBgQC8VVz/PtMJJVMxFiNiGfZFO0VkNPEDQhSodVS5UKcUO5r5NxSchjaHZQu6dUxnZgMC yiKBxzHDSu5vGE6cS/USXrzQgaMpjWgiQbd+pQYfawzpfLWpg7BPsEIZQ2rCBYJFv2XxB7QkvmUe 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pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.2.075) (authenticated as u18116613) id 453F8F4201257DA4 for ietf-smime@imc.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:51:25 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01c73d39$50394830$82c5a8c0@arport2v> From: "Anders Rundgren" To: References: <005f01c72675$c62d86d0$82c5a8c0@arport2v> Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:51:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Still waiting for a response... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Anders Rundgren=20 To: ietf-smime@imc.org=20 Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36 Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Today I concluded that my mail-box with 120 fresh messages constituted = of about 110 messages where the sender address is either falsified, or = is coming through a hijacked computer. In my opinion S/MIME is the primary culprit for this unbearable = situation. That Windows have showed some weaknesses with respect to virus attacks = is undoubtedly true, but viruses would also have had a much less impact = if we have had a useful e-mail security architecture. The same goes for = phishing, not to mention spam. A do believe that the designers of S/MIME did what they could back in = the 90'ties. However, now when we know better [*], shouldn't these guys = who indirectly contribute to an annual waste of BILLIONS of good working = hours from the Internet community rather try to create a system that to = some extent compensates for the mistakes done in the past? DKIM is a step in the right direction but it does not address = confidentiality. That DKIM was designed to support people who want to = run their own mail-servers but cannot afford a domain-certificate is = also a bit off since these entities represent at most 0.1% of today's = Internet users. Anders Rundgren *] - Client certificates are [still] uncommon - Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work - Security administrators want central policy handling - Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) - You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never = will - e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal = policies - Security should be transparent, default, and non-intrusive ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Still waiting for a = response...
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Anders=20 Rundgren
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36
Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007?

Today I concluded that my = mail-box with 120=20 fresh messages constituted of about 110 messages where the sender = address=20 is either falsified, or is coming through a hijacked = computer.
 
In my opinion S/MIME is the = primary culprit=20 for this unbearable situation.
 
That Windows have showed some = weaknesses with=20 respect to virus attacks is undoubtedly true, but viruses would = also have=20 had a much less impact if we have had a useful e-mail security=20 architecture.  The same goes for phishing, not to mention=20 spam.
 
A do believe that the designers of S/MIME did what they could back = in the=20 90'ties.  However, now when we know better [*], shouldn't these = guys who=20 indirectly contribute to an annual waste of BILLIONS of = good working=20 hours from the Internet community rather try to create a system = that to=20 some extent compensates for the mistakes done in the past?
 
DKIM is a step in the right direction but it does not address=20 confidentiality.  That DKIM was designed to support people who = want to=20 run their own mail-servers but cannot afford a domain-certificate is = also a bit=20 off since these entities represent at most 0.1% of today's Internet=20 users.
 
Anders Rundgren
 
*]
- Client certificates are [still]=20 uncommon
- Encryption at the desktop = by consumers=20 does not work
- Security administrators want central = policy=20 handling
- Trusted third-parties is the norm = (from your=20 employer to Google)
- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail = to the IRS=20 and you probably never will
- e-mail encryption is incompatible = with=20 many organizations' internal policies
- Security should be = transparent, default, and=20 non-intrusive
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JHrOWh071147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JHrNo0071146; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JHrMHS071139 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CF24F41A for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96E94413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28360-09 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id ABAE344103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:15 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:15 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > Julien: > > Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? Russ, unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as the signature algorithm. So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' matches 'sha1'. To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition to one of the WG document or not. Regards, -- Julien Possible clarification 1: ------------------------- The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. Possible clarification 2: ------------------------- The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present or not. When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > Russ > > > >Folks, > > > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > version CMSVersion, > > sid SignerIdentifier, > > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > signature SignatureValue, > > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > > > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >"signatureAlgorithm". > > > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" > >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >Is there a general rule ? > > > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien Stern > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JH8bC2068846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JH8b5p068845; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0JH8Z7I068839 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 31531 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jan 2007 17:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (71.246.224.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 17:08:27 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:08:29 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Julien: Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? Russ >Folks, > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > version CMSVersion, > sid SignerIdentifier, > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signature SignatureValue, > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with >"signatureAlgorithm". > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? >Is there a general rule ? > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien Stern Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDi2F5054637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JDi2gn054636; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDi1iv054630 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2827415A2 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3278C4413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24963-06 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 75FFF44103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:55 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:55 +0100 To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119134355.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , "ietf-smime@imc.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:57:12PM +0100, Denis Pinkas wrote: > > Julien, > > On January 9, I addressed this topic on the list, but no one has responded yet. > Hereafter are some extracts of what I said, where the clarifications you are looking for > are addressed in the third pararagraph. Denis, thanks for your answer. And my apologies for not having seen your previous mail. I'm subcribed to the list, but I apparently have missed that one. Nevertheless, while I agree with you there is a minor clarification needed, I'm afraid that your text still leaves some things unclear. You say that if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption then the digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1. I have no specific issue with this rule, but 1) I could not find it anywhere in the current text 2) It contradicts (in spirit) the text from RFC4056, which does not mandate the use of the same hash function. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RFC4056: digestAlgorithms SHOULD contain the one-way hash function used to compute the message digest on the eContent value. The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value if signedAttributes exist. The same one-way hash function MUST be used for computing the message digest on the signedAttributes and as the hashAlgorithm in the RSA- PSS-params structure. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The main problem I see in the current CMS is the fact that two different techniques can be used for signing/verification (probably due to legacy interoperability reason, I'm not trying to blame anyone here :)). When there are no signedAttrs, the signatureAlgorithm should be understood as a fake OID, and interpreted differently from the other RFCs. More precisely, it represents "the part of the signature that you perform after the hashing". (In theory, that a big problem, because not all signature algorithms can be expressed as a hash + some other operations, but in practice, that essentially the case, so let's live with it). When there are signed attributes, however, both interpretations become possible: - the first one being "we hash the content with digestAlgorithm and then we hash the signed attributes with the same digestAlgorithm and then we perform the same half-signing as above". - The second being: "we hash the content with digestAlgorithm and then we sign the signedAttrs with the signatureAlgorithm (to be understood as a _real_ signatureAlgorithm, e.g. including its own hash if it uses one)." Apparently, the wording of RFC4056 seem to imply that the second interpretation should be used. The problem is that RFC4056 is totally silent about the way to verify when signedAttrs are absent. RFC3852 is not very verbal regarding the various interpretations, but I would tend to think it suggests the first one. Is there a consensus on the list on the correct interpretations ? Or even better, a quote that clarifies it ? Regards, -- Julien Stern Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JBvIsU046855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JBvItB046853; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JBvFsu046846 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA41836 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:00:54 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011912571394:6390 ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:57:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:57:12 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 19/01/2007 12:57:13, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 19/01/2007 12:57:14, Serialize complete at 19/01/2007 12:57:14 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0JBvHsu046847 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Julien, On January 9, I addressed this topic on the list, but no one has responded yet. Hereafter are some extracts of what I said, where the clarifications you are looking for are addressed in the third pararagraph. "The current explanations from CMS (in fact from PKCS#7) are far insufficient to provide sufficient guidance for a correct verification. This needed to be fixed and has been fixed in the first text proposal". "First replacement: A recipient verifies a signature in the following way : It must first identify the signer's public key to be used for the verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates field. It must verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer’s certificate, e.g. if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption then the digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. In addition, it must verify that the strength and key size of these algorithms are conformant with its local security policy, otherwise it shall discard the signature. It must then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature value, as defined in Section 5.3. A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase". Denis >Folks, > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > version CMSVersion, > sid SignerIdentifier, > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signature SignatureValue, > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with >"signatureAlgorithm". > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? >Is there a general rule ? > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien Stern Denis Pinkas Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JA0TDl037283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JA0T6u037282; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JA0R4X037275 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B1A41099 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5B24413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20634-10 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id B19A844103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:21 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:21 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Folks, I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { version CMSVersion, sid SignerIdentifier, digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, signature SignatureValue, unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with "signatureAlgorithm". My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" (except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? Is there a general rule ? Thank you very much for your clarifications. Regards, -- Julien Stern Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HNjYVZ002613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0HNjYbf002612; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HNjXDB002605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95772AD3F; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:45:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H7KTE-0007Hy-Es; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:45:32 -0500 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-escertid (ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:45:32 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-01-31. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14546&rfc_flag=0 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HKo4fb091663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0HKo448091662; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HKo30D091653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F5B176D7; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H7HjO-0004Hj-Fo; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility Author(s) : J. Schaad Filename : draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2007-1-17 In the original Enhanced Security Services for S/MIME document (RFC 2634), a structure for cryptographically linking the certificate to be used in validation with the signature was introduced, this structure was hardwired to use SHA-1. This document allows for the structure to have algorithm agility and defines a new attribute for this purpose. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-17144102.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-17144102.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GG3LYU068067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GG3Lmx068065; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx02.ixos.de (mucmx02.ixos.de [149.235.128.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GG3ISF068053; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx02.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0GG37lk029380; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:07 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:06 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B3C9C@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Thread-Index: Acc5hYz5NAgBpvv/Qy61Kh5xd84cXQAAGWEQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Denis Pinkas" , "Carl Wallace" , Cc: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Denis, =20 Small comment:=20 I agree with, that ARI and validate is not mature. I agree that LTAP still needs some improvement for WGLC - though I believe it is in good shape. I obviously do not agree with that ERS is not mature.=20 And I totally disagree that ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.=20 =20 Concerning the last two disagreements:=20 1. As Carl already pointed out it seems there might be a misunderstanding of the relationship between ERS and REQS:=20 ERS is definitely not the complete answer to all requirements from REQS, but fulfils its part. Other things shall be defined by LTAP and some REQS may even be addressed at a later time (or only by individual implementations but not by an I-D). (The goal of REQS is to help choose the right technical solutions and approach by defining the objective targets for the specifications.) 2. ERS as the data structure for the records is valuable on its own and has with intent been only loosely coupled with LTAP. So we can progress ERS. This makes the work of the WG easier and more efficient as we then can focus on LTAP and ARI and validate (note: the last two are only intended to be informational). =20 Thanks, Tobias =20 =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:32 PM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd =20 Carl, =20 I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings. =20 This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements=20 whereas ERS does not. =20 I simply reiterate my position: =20 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements.=20 - ERS is not mature. - LTAP is not mature. - ARI is not mature. - validate is not mature. - ERS needs major revisions.=20 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG. =20 Denis =20 =20 ________________________________ inline... =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, =20 ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements.=20 [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP.=20 =20 =20 The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.=20 Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. =20 It is never mentioned that a response is signed. =20 =20 ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent.=20 [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." =20 =20 About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that=20 the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.=20 Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of=20 the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion=20 can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. =20 [CRW] This should be added. =20 Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. =20 I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it.=20 [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: =20 ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,=20 reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,=20 attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,=20 timeStamp ContentInfo}=20 =20 I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. =20 Carl ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Denis,

 

Small comment: =

I agree with, = that ARI and validate is not mature.

I agree that = LTAP still needs some improvement for WGLC – though I believe it is in good = shape.

I obviously do = not agree with that ERS is not mature.

And I totally = disagree that ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.

 =

Concerning the = last two disagreements:

1. As Carl = already pointed out it seems there might be a misunderstanding of the = relationship between ERS and REQS:

ERS is = definitely not the complete answer to all requirements from REQS, but fulfils its part. = Other things shall be defined by LTAP and some REQS may even be addressed at a = later time (or only by individual implementations but not by an I-D). (The = goal of REQS is to help choose the right technical solutions and approach by = defining the objective targets for the = specifications.)

2. ERS as the = data structure for the records is valuable on its own and has with intent = been only loosely coupled with LTAP. So we can progress ERS. This makes the work = of the WG easier and more efficient as we then can focus on LTAP and ARI and = validate (note: the last two are only intended to be = informational).

 =

Thanks, = Tobias

 =

 =


From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Tuesday, January = 16, 2007 4:32 PM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org
Subject: Re: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

 

Carl,

 

I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I = need to attend different meetings.

 

This leaves you more time to look again at the = arguments explained in my three e-mails
and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS = requirements
whereas ERS does not.

 

I simply reiterate my position:

 

 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. 

 - ERS is not mature.

 - LTAP is not mature.

 - ARI is not mature.

 - validate is not mature.

 - ERS needs major revisions.

 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the = IESG.

 

Denis  

 


inline...

 


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January = 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; = 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,

 

ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 

[CRW] ERS is currently the = focus.  Not LTAP. 

 

 <snip> 

The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. =

Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear = nowhere.

[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" = are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in = ERS.

 

It is never mentioned that a response is = signed.  

 

ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA = agent. 

[CRW] See the following in section = 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that = provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData."  =

 

About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete = operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.

Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA = is trusted to keep the data until the end of

the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the = owner of the data shall be given, before deletion

can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the = document.

 

[CRW] This should be = added.

 

Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.

 

I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from = yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 

[CRW] Most of your suggestions = apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct = w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp = layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better = if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes = field, where policy could be an instance:

 

   ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D = SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier = OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes     &nb= sp;    [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}

 

I think the other matters can and = should be addressed in the context of LTAP.

 

Carl


------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFVnuE065622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GFVnmq065620; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFVlXn065609; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23248; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:35:20 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011616314066:14869 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:31:40 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:31:38 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:31:40, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:31:43, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 16:31:43 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon650452802867_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon650452802867_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings. This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements whereas ERS does not. I simply reiterate my position: - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. - ERS is not mature. - LTAP is not mature. - ARI is not mature. - validate is not mature. - ERS needs major revisions. - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG. Denis inline... From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. [CRW] This should be added. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. Carl --=====003_Dragon650452802867_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings.
 
This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails
and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements
whereas ERS does not.
 
I simply reiterate my position:
 
 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. 
 - ERS is not mature.
 - LTAP is not mature.
 - ARI is not mature.
 - validate is not mature.
 - ERS needs major revisions.
 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.
 
Denis  
 

inline...


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 
[CRW] ERS is currently the focus.  Not LTAP. 
 
 <snip> 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in ERS.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.  
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. 
[CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData." 
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
[CRW] This should be added.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 
[CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance:
 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes          [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}
 
I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP.
 
Carl

--=====003_Dragon650452802867_=====-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFV0H1065562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GFV0Ht065560; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFUv0P065547; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23200; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:34:32 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011616305514:14813 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:30:55 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:30:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Peter Sylvester" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" , "ietf-ltans@imc.org" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:30:55, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:30:55, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 16:30:55 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Peter, You said: >The details how a delete request is authenticated is outside of scope of >LTAP as well as management of ownerships etc. Many aspects seem to be outside the scope of the document, whereas they should not.. >A trace record means: "At this place there had been some data which can >be described by (list of some metadata), >they had been deleted (metadata about that fact)." It is not the backend >LTA that creates all these metedata, >the frontend that authenticates the request prepares some of them. The >LTA does not make complicated decisions. A trace record from the LTA would be insufficient in case of a dispute. An LTA is providing a service for someone. An LTA has to be made responsible of its actions, and therfor must give back some proof for each deposit or for an addition to a former deposit. In case the owner of the data decides to shorten the original archival time period (BTW mentioned nowhere in ERS or in LTAP), then the LTA must be able to present some proof of that will, otherwise the owner of the data could pretend that the archive was deleted by the LTA before the end of the original archival period. (text deleted) Denis >Peter Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GDt4bw055486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GDt4ds055485; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from edelweb.fr (edelweb.fr [212.234.46.16]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GDt2cO055470; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Peter.Sylvester@edelweb.fr) Received: from [193.51.14.5] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by edelweb.fr (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l0GDsj510900; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:54:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from [193.51.14.5] (emeriau.edelweb.fr [193.51.14.5]) by edelweb.fr (nospam/2.4); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:54:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <45ACD8AA.5040009@edelweb.fr> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:52:42 +0100 From: Peter Sylvester User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Wallace CC: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org, ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd References: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> In-Reply-To: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030007080403040006090406" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030007080403040006090406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. > Right. > > ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. > [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally > encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication > and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." > > About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following > sentence: "Note that this does not mean that > the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete > operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. > Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is > trusted to keep the data until the end of > the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner > of the data shall be given, before deletion > can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. > > [CRW] This should be added. > The details how a delete request is authenticated is outside of scope of LTAP as well as management of ownerships etc. A trace record means: "At this place there had been some data which can be described by (list of some metadata), they had been deleted (metadata about that fact)." It is not the backend LTA that creates all these metedata, the frontend that authenticates the request prepares some of them. The LTA does not make complicated decisions. An example of a higher level front end protocol on can take something like the French proposal of the National Archives. 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(8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GBcmdY042618; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:38:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0GBckFE042604 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:38:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 6943 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;16 Jan 2007 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 11:37:59 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:38:45 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:38:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36 Content-Type: text/plain inline... _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. [CRW] This should be added. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. Carl ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36 Content-Type: text/html
inline...


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 
[CRW] ERS is currently the focus.  Not LTAP. 
 
 <snip> 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in ERS.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.  
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. 
[CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData." 
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
[CRW] This should be added.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 
[CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance:
 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes          [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}
 
I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP.
 
Carl
------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0G8RS03025765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0G8RRnD025764; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0G8ROi4025748; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12628; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:30:51 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011609271344:3931 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:08 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 09:27:13, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 09:27:15, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 09:27:15 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon304872843802_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon304872843802_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. In order to understand LTAP, there is the need to wait until page 28, where the operations are only sketched : - The ARCHIVE operation applies to "rawData and a messageDigest" without any information on these two pieces of information and their relationship, if any, with ERS. - The STATUS operation is hardly defined. - The EXPORT operation returns "data and metadata of the object" without any information on these two pieces of information and their relationship, if any, with ERS. - The DELETE operation "returns the updated metadata (or nothing)" without any information on this piece of information and its relationship, if any, with ERS. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. Denis Denis, Thanks for the analysis. Regarding: ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation. Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record. I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4. For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record. It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times. For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided. For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement. Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level. Perhaps the following: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, policy [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed. Carl ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs". Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost and be used to write an informative annex. There are indeed much more important topics. ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document are not met by the current ERS draft. Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ? 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time". 4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object. 5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". 6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence. This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements. Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal. In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters. The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element. If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree. This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature. This leads to the following structure: EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that serves -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } with: signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above. Denis ________________________________ Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ________________________________ --=====003_Dragon304872843802_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements.
 
In order to understand LTAP, there is the need to wait until page 28,
where the operations are only sketched :
 
- The ARCHIVE operation applies to "rawData and a messageDigest"
   without any information on these two pieces of information and
   their relationship, if any, with ERS.
 
 - The STATUS operation is hardly defined.
 
 - The EXPORT operation returns "data and metadata of the object"
   without any information on these two pieces of information and
   their relationship, if any, with ERS.
 
 - The DELETE operation "returns the updated metadata (or nothing)"
   without any information on this piece of information and its relationship,
   if any, with ERS.
 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent.
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it.
 
Denis
 

Denis,
 
Thanks for the analysis.  Regarding:
 
ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?
 
We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation.  Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record.  I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4.  For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record.  It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times.  For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided.


For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement.  Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level.  Perhaps the following:


   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
     policy          [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}

Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed.
 
Carl


________________________________

        From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
        Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM
        To: ietf-smime@imc.org
        Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
        Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd
       
       

        I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs".

        Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3

        and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather

        than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost

        and be used to write an informative annex.

        

        There are indeed much more important topics.

        

        ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?

        

        However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document

        are not met by the current ERS draft.

        

        Here are a few examples :

                1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived
        data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive
        service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since
        the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ?
                2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp!
        tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding
        element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply,
        since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ?

                3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence
        that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time
        and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
        to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed
        by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence
        of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object
        since that time".
                4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s)
        that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However,
        ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation
        of the archived data object.
                5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance
        with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation
        of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support
        the "long-term archive service policy".
                6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which
        an LTA operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple
        indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object."
        However, the ER does not contain such an information.

                7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing
        evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible
        from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data".
        However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.
       
        This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements.

        

        Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal.

        

        In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data
        before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the
        structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need).

        

           TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE {

             digestAlgorithm        [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

             archivalPolicy             ArchivalPolicy,

             archivalTimePeriod         ArchivalTimePeriod,

             cryptoMaintenancePolicy    CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

             reducedHashtree            SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree,

             timeStamp                  TimeStampToken }

        

           PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING

        

           ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER

                

           ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE {

                notBefore      GeneralizedTime,

                notAfter       GeneralizedTime }

                

        CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically
        would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

                

        The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of
        the time stamp token.

        

        The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element.

        

        If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used
        to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given
        policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree.

        

        This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
        an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

        

        Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to
        a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.

        

        This leads to the following structure:

        

           EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE {

              version                        INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

              digestAlgorithms               SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,

              archivalPolicy                 ArchivalPolicy,

              archivalTimePeriod             ArchivalTimePeriod,

              cryptoMaintenancePolicy        CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

              evidenceRecord                 EvidenceRecord,

                                             -- the evidence record that serves

                                             -- for the construction

              signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

                                             -- the elements that are added

                                             -- to the previous evidence

              timeStamp                      TimeStampToken }

        

        with:

        

           signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode

        

        The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all
        the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token.

        

        The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the
        evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element.

        

        This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
        an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

        

        This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above.

        

        Denis

        

________________________________

                Tony,
        
        I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.

        
                I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again.

        
        The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. 

        
        ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec.

        
        Carl


________________________________

                From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
                Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
                To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
                Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
                Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

               
               
                Carl:
                
                I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed).

                
                Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology.

                
                Tony

                

                -----Original Message-----
                From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
                Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
                To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
                Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
                Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

               
               
                My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


________________________________

                        From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
                        Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
                        To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
                        Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
                        Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

                       
                       
                        Carl,
                        
                        Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.

                        I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
                        A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
                        
                        Denis

________________________________


--=====003_Dragon304872843802_=====-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFkOvi046450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FFkO6G046449; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0FFkM6s046434 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:46:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 12432 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2007 15:45:27 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;15 Jan 2007 15:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2007 15:45:26 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:46:10 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D79E@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:46:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE Content-Type: text/plain Denis, Thanks for the analysis. Regarding: ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation. Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record. I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4. For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record. It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times. For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided. For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement. Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level. Perhaps the following: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, policy [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed. Carl ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs". Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost and be used to write an informative annex. There are indeed much more important topics. ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document are not met by the current ERS draft. Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ? 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time". 4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object. 5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". 6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence. This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements. Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal. In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters. The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element. If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree. This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature. This leads to the following structure: EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that serves -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } with: signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above. Denis ________________________________ Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 = rd

Denis,
 
Thanks for the analysis.  Regarding:
 
ERS is supposed to respond to = draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?
 
We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to = meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation.  Thus, some of the = information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in = the evidence record.  I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 = and 4.  For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without = contributing signatures to the evidence record.  It simply has to = be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right = times.  For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the = innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record = is itself the evidence being provided.

 
For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp = is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this = requirement.  Since these values can change over time, they are = not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol = level.  Perhaps the following:

 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE = {
     digestAlgorithm [0] = AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] = SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
     = policy          [1] OBJECT = IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL,
     = timeStamp       ContentInfo}

Using this structure, the policy would be asserted = when a renewal is performed.
 
Carl


________________________________

        From: = owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@ma= il.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
        Sent: = Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM
        To: = ietf-smime@imc.org
        Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
        Subject: = Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd
       =20
       =20

        I said in = an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its = needs".

        Carl has = provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO = ISO-18014-3

        and why = ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" = time-stamps rather

        than = time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should = not be lost

        and be = used to write an informative annex.

         =

        There are = indeed much more important topics.

         =

        ERS is = supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?

         =

        However, = many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document =

        are not = met by the current ERS draft.

         =

        Here are a = few examples :

        =         1. = ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an = archived
        data = object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long = term-archive
        service = be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since =
        the = information to know the time period is not present in the ER ?
        =         2. = ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp!
        tographic = Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding
        element = in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to = apply,
        since the = information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER = ?

        =         3. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides = evidence
        that may = be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a = given time
        and the = integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is = supposed
        to be the = basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed =
        by the = long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the = existence
        of an = archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived = data object
        since = that time".
        =         4. = ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies = the LTA(s)
        that have = participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, =
        ER does = not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the = preservation
        of the = archived data object.
        =         5. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must = operate in accordance
        with a = long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the = implementation
        of the = long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to = support
        the = "long-term archive service policy".
        =         6. = ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the = policies under which
        an LTA = operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may = feature multiple
        indications of policies active at various points during the = life of an archived data object."
        However, = the ER does not contain such an information.

        =         7. = ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be = capable of providing
        evidence = that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is = responsible
        from the = time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period = of the data".
        However, = no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.
       =20
        This = means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the = requirements.

         =

        Now, let = us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished = strawman proposal.

         =

        In order = to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to = aggregate data
        before = applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure = (close to the
        structure = of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need).

         =

           TimeStampedNode ::=3D SEQUENCE {

             = digestAlgorithm        [0] = AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

             = archivalPolicy         &nbs= p;   ArchivalPolicy,

             = archivalTimePeriod         = ArchivalTimePeriod,

             = cryptoMaintenancePolicy    = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

             = reducedHashtree         &nb= sp;  SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree,

             = timeStamp          &nb= sp;       TimeStampToken }

         =

           PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET = STRING

         =

           ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT IDENTIFIER

        =         

           ArchivalTimePeriod ::=3D SEQUENCE {

                = notBefore      GeneralizedTime,

                = notAfter       GeneralizedTime }

        =         

        CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, = but basically
        would = contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their = parameters.

        =         

        The = CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of
        the time = stamp token.

         =

        The hash = included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree = element.

         =

        If this = structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can = be used
        to = demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, = under a given
        policy = for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash = tree.

         =

        This means = that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by =
        an LTA = agent in order to form a SignedNode.

         =

        Later on, = the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to =
        a signed = Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.

         =

        This leads = to the following structure:

         =

           EvidenceNode ::=3D SEQUENCE {

              version    &= nbsp;           &= nbsp;       INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

              = digestAlgorithms         &n= bsp;     SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,

              = archivalPolicy         &nbs= p;       ArchivalPolicy,

              = archivalTimePeriod         =     ArchivalTimePeriod,

              = cryptoMaintenancePolicy        = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

              = evidenceRecord         &nbs= p;       EvidenceRecord,

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- the evidence record that serves

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- for the construction

              = signedNodeSequence         =     SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- the elements that are added

                  &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  -- to the previous evidence

              = timeStamp          &nb= sp;           = TimeStampToken }

         =

        with:

         =

           signedNodeSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF = SignedNode

         =

        The = CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all =
        the data = that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token.

         =

        The hash = included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the =
        evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence = element.

         =

        This means = that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by =
        an LTA = agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

         =

        This new = proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above.

         =

        Denis

         =

________________________________

        =         Tony,
         =
        I think = Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working = group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late = in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  = However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.

         =
        =         I don't think = it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  = One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for = aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the = reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This = field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and = ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation = when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal = is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient = and the original data must be hashed again.

         =
        The ISO = spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is = roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  = However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where = the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be = rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the = preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original = data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented = for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to = make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any = description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that = describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't = follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to = aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to = ERS. 

         =
        ERS = support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more = complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I = think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec.

         =
        Carl


________________________________

            &n= bsp;   From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
        =         Sent: = Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
        =         To: 'Carl = Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
        =         Subject: RE: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =        =20
        =        =20
        =         Carl:
        =         
        =         I think Denis = asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new = technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably more mature than what is being proposed).

        =         
        =         Denis notes = (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many = options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be = published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific = application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should = profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new = technology.

        =         
        =         Tony

        =         

        =         -----Original = Message-----
        =         From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@ma= il.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
        =         Sent: January = 11, 2007 10:16 AM
        =         To: Denis = Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
        =         Subject: RE: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =        =20
        =        =20
        =         My response = wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  = Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, = including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping = comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic = measures.  I simply asked for justification.


________________________________

        =         =         From: Denis = Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] =
        =         =         Sent: = Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
        =         =         To: Carl = Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
        =         =         Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
        =         =         Subject: Re: = RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

        =         =        =20
        =         =        =20
        =         =         Carl,
        =         =         
        =         =         Please do not = reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify = why it would not fulfill its needs.

        =         =         I will refine = my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill = the needs ?
        =         =         A profile = would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
        =         =         
        =         =         Denis

________________________________

------_=_NextPart_001_01C738BC.41E169EE-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFTTrj045097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FFTTXe045095; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FFTRu6045085; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:29:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tglassey@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=SlJ6+uQ/cVJ+6y1rs8fO5genZqG0GKgXB/YAgxHnkjAbFr9G2KbhehUApSTvBwP+; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.245.6.185] (helo=gw) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1H6Tm1-0005nO-Gh; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:29:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3a9101c738ba$bb244f60$2101a8c0@home.glassey.com> From: "todd glassey" To: "Denis Pinkas" , Cc: , "'Russ Housley'" References: Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:35:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 01b7a7e171bdf5911aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79467be4553ac673812d3a8c1ba579ccc4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.245.6.185 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Denis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Denis Pinkas=20 To: ietf-smime@imc.org=20 Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org ; 'Russ Housley'=20 Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not = fulfill its needs".=20 Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences = with ISO ISO-18014-3=20 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" = time-stamps rather=20 than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information = should not be lost=20 and be used to write an informative annex. =20 There are indeed much more important topics.=20 ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? =20 However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements = document=20 are not met by the current ERS draft.=20 =20 Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which = an archiveddata object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How = may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data = during that time-period, since the information to know the time period = is not present in the ER ? Denis this is one of the key disagreement's = you and I have with timestamping. There is NO need to keep that = information online or mechanically provable in a methodology that = remains consistant with any taks than proving the signature at the time = of its signing in the technology available at the time of the signing. = 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cr! yp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. = How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, = since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not = present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides = evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived = data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data = object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data = to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long = term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the = existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity = of the archived data object since that time".4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on = page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have = participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, = ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in = the preservation of the archived data object.5. ltans-reqs-10 states on = page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a = long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the = implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not = contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". = There is no specification in the protocol drafts that these 'policies = and control features' be a part of the mechanical processes of the LTANS = service Denis...6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of = many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo = modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications = of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data = object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be = capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the = integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received = the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". = However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.This = means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the = requirements. =20 Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an = unpolished strawman proposal. =20 In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be = able to aggregate data=20 before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following = structure (close to the=20 structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). =20 TimeStampedNode ::=3D SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } =20 PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING =20 ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::=3D SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but = basically=20 would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their = parameters. =20 The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of=20 the time stamp token. =20 The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the = reducedHashtree element. =20 If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then = it can be used=20 to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, = under a given=20 policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash = tree. =20 This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20 an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. =20 Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some = other data to=20 a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.=20 =20 This leads to the following structure: =20 EvidenceNode ::=3D SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that = serves=20 -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added=20 -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } =20 with: =20 signedNodeSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF SignedNode =20 The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, = to all=20 the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp = token. =20 The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the = concatenation of the=20 evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. =20 This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20 an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here = above. =20 Denis =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a = working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request = this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the = basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require = profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is = support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the = reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and = the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence = structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp = is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when = simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be = hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. = This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. = However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where = the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. = In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding = timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO = spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the = original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the = extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the = current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the = ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in = the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp = well enough to compare them to ERS. =20 ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides = more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I = think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec. Carl -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction = of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard = offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard = might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific = application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile = (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for = details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these = specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made = a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic = measures. I simply asked for justification. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: = WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- ------=_NextPart_000_3A8E_01C73877.AB26D120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Denis
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Denis=20 Pinkas
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org ; 'Russ=20 Housley'
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 = 6:59=20 AM
Subject: Re: Cross review of = draft ERS=20 from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

I=20 said in an earlier e-mail: =93The WG has to justify why it would not = fulfill its=20 needs=94.

Carl=20 has provided interesting information to explain the differences with = ISO=20 ISO-18014-3

and=20 why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of =93ordinary=94 = time-stamps=20 rather

than=20 time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should = not be=20 lost

and=20 be used to write an informative annex.

 

There=20 are indeed much more important topics.

 

ERS=20 is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn=92it=20 ?

 

However,=20 many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document =

are=20 not met by the current ERS draft.

 

Here=20 are a few examples :

1. =
ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as =93The period during which =
an archived
data object is preserved by a = long-term archive service=94. How may a long term-archive =
service be held responsible of = storing the data during that time-period, since
the information to = know the time period is not present in the ER = ?
 
Denis this is one of the key disagreement's you and I have with =
timestamping. There is NO need to keep that information online or =
mechanically provable in a methodology that remains consistant with any =
taks than proving the signature at the time of its signing in the =
technology available at the time of the =
signing.
 
2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a =
Cr!
 yp!
tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding 
element in = ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to = apply,
since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is = not present in ER ?

3. =
ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides =
evidence 
that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an = archived data object at a given time
and the integrity of the = archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
to be the = basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed =
by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used =93to = demonstrate the existence
of an archived data object at a given time = and the integrity of the archived data object
since that = time=94.
4. ltans-reqs-10 =
adds on page 7: =93Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) =

that have participated in the preservation of the archived data = object=94. However,
ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that = have participated in the preservation
of the archived data = object.
5. ltans-reqs-10 states on =
page 9: =93A long-term archive service must operate in accordance =

with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics = of the implementation
of the long-term archive service=94. However, = ER does not contain a data item to support
the =93long-term archive = service policy=94.
There  is =
no specification in the protocol drafts that these 'policies and control =
features' be a part of the mechanical processes of the LTANS service =
Denis...
 
6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on =
page 10: =93 Over the course of many years, the policies under which =

an LTA operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may = feature multiple
indications of policies active at various points = during the life of an archived data object.=94
However, the ER does = not contain such an information.

7. =
ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: =93A long-term archive service must be =
capable of providing 
evidence that can be used to demonstrate the = integrity of data for which it is responsible
from the time it = received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the = data=94.
However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this = evidence.

This=20 means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the=20 requirements.

 

Now,=20 let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an = unpolished=20 strawman proposal.

 

In=20 order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able = to=20 aggregate data
before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, = the=20 following structure (close to the
structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, = but=20 different) would fulfill the need).

 

   TimeStampedNode ::=3D = SEQUENCE=20 {

     = digestAlgorithm=20        [0]=20 AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

     = archivalPolicy           &n= bsp;=20 ArchivalPolicy,

    =20 archivalTimePeriod        =20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

    =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy  =20  CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     = reducedHashtree=20            SEQUENCE=20 OF PartialHashtree,

     = timeStamp       =            TimeStampToke= n=20 }

 

   PartialHashtree ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF=20 OCTET STRING

 

   ArchivalPolicy::=3D OBJECT=20 IDENTIFIER

 

   ArchivalTimePeriod = ::=3D=20 SEQUENCE=20 {

        = notBefore     =20 GeneralizedTime,

        = notAfter      =20 GeneralizedTime }

 

CryptoMaintenancePolicy=20 would need more work to be defined, but basically
would contain a = sequence=20 of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the = crypto of=20
the time stamp token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree = element.

 

If=20 this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it = can be=20 used
to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to = archive, under a given
policy for a given time period, the data = items that=20 are under the hash tree.

 

This=20 means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message = signed by=20
an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

 

Later=20 on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other = data to=20
a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and = signature.=20

 

This=20 leads to the following structure:

 

   EvidenceNode ::=3D = SEQUENCE=20 {

      = version           &n= bsp;     =20       INTEGER { v1(1) }=20 ,

     =20 digestAlgorithms        =20       SEQUENCE OF=20 AlgorithmIdentifier,

     =20 archivalPolicy           &n= bsp;    =20 ArchivalPolicy,

     =20 archivalTimePeriod           &n= bsp;=20 ArchivalTimePeriod,

     =20 cryptoMaintenancePolicy        = CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     =20 evidenceRecord           &n= bsp; =20    EvidenceRecord,

               &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;         -- the evidence record = that=20 serves

           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;=20 -- for the construction

     =20 signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   = OPTIONAL,

              &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          -- the elements = that are=20 added

           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;=20 -- to the previous evidence

      = timeStamp       =            &n= bsp;   TimeStampToken=20 }

 

with:

 

   signedNodeSequence = ::=3D SEQUENCE=20 OF SignedNode

 

The=20 CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence = record, to all=20
the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp=20 token.

 

The=20 hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation = of the=20
evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence=20 element.

 

This=20 means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed = by
an=20 LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

 

This=20 new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here=20 above.

 

Denis

 


Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional = details when=20 calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making = this=20 request this late in the process = with=20 non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try = to make=20 the case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many = options that=20 require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the = development of=20 ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in = ERS via=20 the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  = This field=20 and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence = structures=20 allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp=20 is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required = as well=20 as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original = data must=20 be hashed again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp = renewal.  This is=20 roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  = However,=20 there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash=20 algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In = ERS,=20 when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp = tokens are=20 hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an = existing=20 timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is = not. =20 It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but = I don't=20 see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text = that=20 describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  = I don't follow how the aggregation = mechanisms in=20 the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp = well=20 enough to compare them to = ERS.  
 
ERS = support for=20 aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete = handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we = should=20 proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO=20 spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel = [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: = 'Carl=20 Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE:=20 RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I=20 think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction=20 of new technology to solve a problem which may already be = solved with=20 an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is = presumably=20 more mature than what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous = comment) that=20 perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a = Profile=20 of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO = standard=20 for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a = case the=20 RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not = introduce=20 new technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] = On=20 Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16=20 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: = RE: RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the = question but=20 a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously = discussed=20 these specifications, including their use within an = EvidenceRecord. =20 You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for = fairly=20 drastic measures.  I simply asked for=20 justification.


From: Denis Pinkas=20 [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007=20 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; = ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: Re:=20 RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already = exists. The=20 WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 = not=20 adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many=20 options.
 
Denis

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I said in an earlier e-mail: “The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs”.

Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3

and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of “ordinary” time-stamps rather

than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost

and be used to write an informative annex.

 

There are indeed much more important topics.

 

ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn’it ?

 

However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document

are not met by the current ERS draft.

 

Here are a few examples :

1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as “The period during which an archived
data object is preserved by a long-term archive service”. How may a long term-archive
service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since
the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ?
2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp!
tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding 
element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply,
since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ?

3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence 
that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time
and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed
by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used “to demonstrate the existence
of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object
since that time”.
4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: “Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) 
that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object”. However,
ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation
of the archived data object.
5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: “A long-term archive service must operate in accordance 
with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation
of the long-term archive service”. However, ER does not contain a data item to support
the “long-term archive service policy”.
6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: “ Over the course of many years, the policies under which 
an LTA operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple
indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object.”
However, the ER does not contain such an information.

7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: “A long-term archive service must be capable of providing 
evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible
from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data”.
However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.

This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements.

 

Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal.

 

In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data
before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the
structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need).

 

   TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE {

     digestAlgorithm        [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

     archivalPolicy             ArchivalPolicy,

     archivalTimePeriod         ArchivalTimePeriod,

     cryptoMaintenancePolicy    CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

     reducedHashtree            SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree,

     timeStamp                  TimeStampToken }

 

   PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING

 

   ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER

 

   ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE {

        notBefore      GeneralizedTime,

        notAfter       GeneralizedTime }

 

CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically
would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

 

The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of
the time stamp token.

 

The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element.

 

If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used
to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given
policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree.

 

This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

 

Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to
a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.

 

This leads to the following structure:

 

   EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE {

      version                        INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

      digestAlgorithms               SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,

      archivalPolicy                 ArchivalPolicy,

      archivalTimePeriod             ArchivalTimePeriod,

      cryptoMaintenancePolicy        CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

      evidenceRecord                 EvidenceRecord,

                                     -- the evidence record that serves

                                     -- for the construction

      signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

                                     -- the elements that are added

                                     -- to the previous evidence

      timeStamp                      TimeStampToken }

 

with:

 

   signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode

 

The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all
the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token.

 

The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the
evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element.

 

This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

 

This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above.

 

Denis

 


Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS.  
 
ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis

--=====003_Dragon810844471340_=====-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BIKAN7080493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BIKAbW080491; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx01.ixos.de (mucmx01.ixos.de [149.235.128.48]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BIK7hw080481; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx01.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0BIJrnh002492; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:19:58 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B380B@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thread-Index: Acc1oyS94EAZ5ocYR1utQNa4AasSTAABn4GQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Carl Wallace" , "Tony Capel" , "Denis Pinkas" , Cc: , "Russ Housley" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony and Denis, =20 about 12 months LTANS investigated and discussed the relationship and use of other timestamps from the ISO-18014 family.=20 The result was that ISO-18014 timestamps/tokens could be used instead of the RFC-3161 timestamps within the ERS structure.=20 18014-3 definitely can not replace or even be directly compared to ERS - both specs refer to different goals and technical concepts.=20 It would be like comparing apples and oranges, to use a metaphor (for a comparison which is not valid).=20 =20 Tobias =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:08 PM To: Tony Capel; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd =20 Tony, =20 I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. =20 I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. =20 The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. =20 =20 ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. =20 Carl =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: =20 I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). =20 Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. =20 Tony =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, =20 Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. =20 Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Tony and = Denis,

 

about 12 months = LTANS investigated and discussed the relationship and use of other timestamps = from the ISO-18014 family.

The result was = that ISO-18014 timestamps/tokens could be used instead of the RFC-3161 = timestamps within the ERS structure.

18014-3 = definitely can not replace or even be directly compared to ERS – both specs refer to = different goals and technical concepts.

It would be like comparing apples and oranges, to use a metaphor (for a comparison which = is not valid).

 =

Tobias=

 =

 =

 =


From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 6:08 PM
To: Tony Capel; 'Denis = Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

 

Tony,

 

I think Denis should provide = additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially = when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the = other direction.

 

I don't think it's simply a case of = too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited = during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This = is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation = when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal = is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the = original data must be hashed again.

 

The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is = roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, = there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash = algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a = hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed = along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp = token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be = possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any = description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes = verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the = aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to = ERS.  

 

ERS support for aggregation is more = clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS = instead of trying to enhance the ISO = spec.

 

Carl

 


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ = Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:

 

I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a = problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has = already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being = proposed).

 

Denis notes (in his previous = comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the = ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such = a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not = introduce new technology.

 

Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 = 10:16 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ = Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal = of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have = previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an = EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for = fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for = justification.

 


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; = ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: = Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca = ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,

 

Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its = needs.

I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate to fulfill the needs ?

A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many = options.

 

Denis

------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AD.170DF02D-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BI2Hvj078885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BI2HlG078884; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx01.ixos.de (mucmx01.ixos.de [149.235.128.48]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BI2E1x078861; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:02:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx01.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0BI22cl001934; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:02:02 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B380A@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Thread-Index: Acc1gFzEGX/G+TLQQ4eRM4UlAkbhxgAIkdbQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Denis Pinkas" Cc: , "Russ Housley" , "Carl Wallace" , Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Denis,=20 =20 Thank you for your time and the review. As Carl already commented on most of your comments, and I fully agree with him, I will only add a few things: =20 1. At first to set one thing straight: The ERS document has been discussed extensively over the last two years and there have been literally hundreds of emails with comments and discussion about it on the mailing-list and there are world wide several companies who already implemented ERS some months ago (based o the draft versions 5-8 which are very similar to version 9). So I can only assume that you are not talking about ERS but about validate or ari, which are like add-ons to explain ERS further but still very young - those two documents documents are NOT in WGLC - only ERS! (note: the work on the next version of validate with the new second author is currently in progress and a new version should be ready in about 3-4 weeks.) =20 2. I will propose to LTANS improvements according to the last two comments in your review:=20 a) make the separation of the protection mechanisms clearer=20 > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,=20 > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,=20 > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.=20 and b) clarify whether Appendix A's annex is informative or normative and explain the benefits of including an EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute. =20 So again also from my side, thank you for your review. =20 Tobias =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:00 PM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd =20 Comments inline...=20 > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG=20 > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd=20 >=20 >=20 > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on=20 > these documents.=20 There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call.=20 > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents=20 > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of=20 > time to attempt to understand them.=20 >=20 > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to=20 > report that they did.=20 > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it.=20 >=20 > This draft and its companion documents namely=20 > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00=20 > raise a number of questions to be solved.=20 These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS.=20 >=20 > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax,=20 > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an=20 > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.=20 The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. =20 >=20 > EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 > version INTEGER { v1(1) } ,=20 > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,=20 > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,=20 > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,=20 > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence,=20 > ...=20 > }=20 >=20 > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain and=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp=20 >=20 > and=20 >=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,=20 > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,=20 > timeStamp ContentInfo}=20 >=20 > PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING=20 >=20 > Note that this information is spread all around the document,=20 > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.=20 >=20 > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that=20 > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. =20 >=20 > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to=20 > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken=20 > is computed.=20 This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." >=20 > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried,=20 > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into=20 > contradiction with the following sentence :=20 >=20 > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,=20 > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure=20 > confirmation from the=20 > TSA of these data.=20 See above.=20 >=20 > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since=20 > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be=20 > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data=20 > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability=20 > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification.=20 This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. =20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of=20 > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a=20 > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an=20 > ArchiveTimeStampSequence.=20 The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem?=20 =20 > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an=20 > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a=20 > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real=20 > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that=20 > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.=20 Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. =20 What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. =20 > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing=20 > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that=20 > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to=20 > construct another one using a previous one.=20 An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. =20 =20 > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive=20 > service. However, there is no signature from an archive=20 > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive=20 > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may=20 > not be held responsible of the storage of the data.=20 This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. =20 > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys.=20 > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation=20 > between the cases of :=20 >=20 > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,=20 > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,=20 > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.=20 >=20 > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is=20 > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a=20 > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given=20 > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size.=20 This should be clarified.=20 >=20 > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits=20 > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and=20 > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous=20 > structure may re-used.=20 >=20 > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is=20 > informative or normative.=20 > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an=20 > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained.=20 > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either.=20 Good point.=20 >=20 > CONCLUSION=20 >=20 > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to=20 > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The=20 > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These=20 > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos.=20 We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate.=20 =20 > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC=20 > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:=20 > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"=20 > that is very close.=20 >=20 > It would be interesting that the authors position their=20 > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work=20 > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this=20 > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable=20 > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped.=20 The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. >=20 > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write=20 > this message,=20 > but I do not have the time available to sustain long=20 > discussions on that topic.=20 Thanks for the review.=20 >=20 > Denis=20 >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd

Hi Denis, =

 =

Thank you for = your time and the review. As Carl already commented on most of your comments, and I = fully agree with him, I will only add a few things:

 =

1. At first to = set one thing straight:

The ERS document = has been discussed extensively over the last two years and there have been = literally hundreds of emails with comments and discussion about it on the mailing-list and = there are world wide several companies who already implemented ERS some months = ago (based o the draft versions 5-8 which are very similar to version 9). So = I can only assume that you are not talking about ERS but about validate or = ari, which are like add-ons to explain ERS further but still very young =  – those two documents documents are NOT in WGLC – only = ERS!

(note: the work = on the next version of validate with the new second author is currently in progress = and a new version should be ready in about 3-4 = weeks.)

 =

2. I will = propose to LTANS improvements according to the last two comments in your review: =

a) make the = separation of the protection mechanisms clearer

> -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a = given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm exhibits = collisions.
and

b) clarify = whether Appendix A’s annex is informative or normative and explain the = benefits of including an EvidenceRecord as an unsigned = attribute.

 =

So again also = from my side, thank you for your review.

 =

   = ;         = Tobias

 =

 =

 =

 =

 =


From: Carl Wallace [mailto:CWallace@cygnacom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January = 11, 2007 2:00 PM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias = Gondrom
Subject: RE: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until = Jan 23rd

 

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
> Subject: Re: Cross = review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments = were sent on the LTANS mailing list on
> these documents. =

There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last = call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents =
> are badly written, = and thus it takes an enormous amount of
> time to attempt to = understand them.
>
> Even though, most = readers will fail, but will not dare to
> report that they = did.
> I am unsure that I = understood them, but I dare to report it.
>
> This draft and its = companion documents namely
> = draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of = questions to be solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was made for additional = co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents.  One person has joined = Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released = yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler = has been used to validate the syntax,
> otherwise, it would = have been noticed that there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error = on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group = last call.  Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for = alarm.  I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of = EncryptionInfo.  Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External = values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE {
>       version           =         INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       digestAlgorithms          = SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       cryptoInfos          &n= bsp;    [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       encryptionInfo          = ;  [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence, =
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text = defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::=3D SEQUENCE OF
>       =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp =
>
> and =
>
>    = ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, =
>      timeStamp       ContentInfo} =
>
>    PartialHashtree ::=3D SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this = information is spread all around the document,
> rather than = presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is = supposed to carry a TST. This means that
> timeStamp should be = defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken = to be used. 

>
> There is no = explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to
> know on which data = the digest contained in the TimeStampToken
> is computed. =

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, = which represents unambiguously all data objects, is = timestamped."

>
> If another kind of = time-stamp token would need to be carried,
> the syntax would = need to be changed. This comes into
> contradiction with = the following sentence :
>
>    = Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,
>    = timestamped data and a cryptographically secure
> confirmation from = the
>    = TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since
> it is not proven = that this additional item will ever be
> useful: encryption = techniques may be different for each data
> item and thus = cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo = should be suppressed too. No interoperability
> can be obtained on = these two fields using this specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' = posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in a peer document or defined in = this draft.

 
> = ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of
> = ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. = However, there is no way to make a
> difference between = an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an
> = ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is this a problem? =
  =
> If within an = EvidenceRecord, one element within of an
> = archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a
> ArchiveTimeStamp) = this is not detectable. What is the real
> value of the = EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord = includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would you want to have happen in = this case?  As-is, verification would fail.  I have commented = previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, = which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the = beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired.  = There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be = no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp?  It = includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more = timestamps.

 
> The current draft = does not allow to apply the processing
> recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a = time stamp), it is currently not possible to
> construct another = one using a previous one.

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  = The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to = add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer = alternative suggestions. 

 
> This document is = supposed to apply to a long term archive
> service. However, = there is no signature from an archive
> service. The TSA = should not be confused with a Archive
> Authority. With the = current structure the Archive service may
> not be held = responsible of the storage of the data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an archive service.  = However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record.  = Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting = with an archive service.

 
> The draft claims to = protect against weak algorithms or keys.
> However, it does = not make a clear and clean separation
> between the cases = of :
>
> = -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> = -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, =
> = -     a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.
>
> With = "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is
> necessary using = "out of bands means" that a given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit = has been compromised or a that given
> asymmetric = algorithm has been broken for a given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree = renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However = a complete reconstruction is needed and
> it is not clearly = explained which data from the previous
> structure may = re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains = an annex and it is not said whether it is
> informative or = normative.
> Nevertheless, the = benefits of the inclusion of an
> EvidenceRecord as = an unsigned attribute are not explained.
> The advantages and = drawbacks of each case is not explained either.

Good point.

>
> = CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none = of these documents is ready to be sent to
> the IESG and it = does not make sense to send ERS alone. The
> usefulness of the = whole work is very questionable. These
> documents are not = mature and contain numerous typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and = -validate.
  =
> The primary = question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO = 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp = services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"
> that is very = close.
>
> It would be = interesting that the authors position their
> documents towards = the ISO standard. Duplication of work
> should be avoided. = If there is no duplication, then this
> should be explained = in an informative annex. If no acceptable
> explanations may be = given, then this work should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this = document as a source for alternative timestamp formats.

>
> P.S. I spent = several hours to read the documents and to write
> this message, =
>       =   but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that = topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis =
> =

------_=_NextPart_001_01C735AA.984610C8-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BH8UXI075038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BH8U90075037; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BH8SR4075025 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:08:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 26767 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 17:07:48 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:08:27 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6B7@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Tony Capel , "'Denis Pinkas'" , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Tobias Gondrom'" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Las t Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:08:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A Content-Type: text/plain Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl _____ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A Content-Type: text/html Message
Tony,
 
I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.
 
I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again.
 
The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS.  
 
ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec.
 
Carl


From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl:
 
I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
------_=_NextPart_001_01C735A3.1C18511A-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BG4UHj069161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BG4UCs069160; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca (mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca [209.217.78.165]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BG4SrR069148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:04:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from capel@comgate.com) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.internal.magma.ca [10.0.10.13]) by mx2-6.spamtrap.magma.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l0BG4JIO005255; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:19 -0500 Received: from tony (ottawa-hs-209-217-122-183.s-ip.magma.ca [209.217.122.183]) by mail3.magma.ca (Magma's Mail Server) with ESMTP id l0BG4DU8020173; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:19 -0500 From: "Tony Capel" To: "'Carl Wallace'" , "'Denis Pinkas'" , Cc: , "'Tobias Gondrom'" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c7359a$227028c0$02b5a8c0@tony> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6A9@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> Importance: Normal X-magma-MailScanner-Information: Magma Mailscanner Service X-magma-MailScanner: Clean X-Spam-Status: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carl: =20 I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of = new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature = than what is being proposed). =20 Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard = offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be = published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you = have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the = ISO standard and not introduce new technology. =20 Tony =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG = Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. = Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including = their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any = details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for = justification. _____ =20 From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG = Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, =20 Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG = has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate = to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. =20 Denis ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Carl:
 
I=20 think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction = of new=20 technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an = existing ISO=20 standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature = than=20 what is being proposed).
 
Denis notes (in his previous comment) = that perhaps=20 the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of = this ISO=20 standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the = specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC = should=20 profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new=20 technology.
 
Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl=20 Wallace
Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Denis = Pinkas;=20 ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; = Russ=20 Housley
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from = LTANS WG -=20 RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan=20 23rd

My response wasn't a reversal of the = question but a=20 request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed = these=20 specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You = made a=20 sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic=20 measures.  I simply asked for = justification.


From: Denis Pinkas=20 [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, = 2007=20 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc:=20 ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: = Re: RE:=20 RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca=20 ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. = The WG=20 has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not = adequate=20 to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many=20 options.
 
Denis
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73570.399A20C0-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BFGDRB064266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BFGDah064264; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BFGA7b064235 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 16490 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 15:15:30 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:09 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D6A9@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Tobias Gondrom , Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Las t Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266 Content-Type: text/plain My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266 Content-Type: text/html
My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
------_=_NextPart_001_01C73593.6AB6E266-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEjmqA061886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BEjmar061885; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEjjRv061870; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:45:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA33758; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:49:13 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011115453925:73730 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:45:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:45:37 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" , "Tobias Gondrom" Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 15:45:39, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 15:45:40, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 15:45:40 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon467742503416_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon467742503416_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. [CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS? Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord. --=====003_Dragon467742503416_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.
I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
 
Denis
 

 

From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM
To: ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. 
[CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS?  Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord.

--=====003_Dragon467742503416_=====-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BEOKsg059789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BEOKiN059787; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BEOIUe059766 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:24:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 11137 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 14:23:39 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:24:17 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D69F@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Russ Housley , Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:24:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E Content-Type: text/plain _____ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. [CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS? Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E Content-Type: text/html
 

From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:50 AM
To: ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. 
[CRW] Can you summarize why you feel the ISO formats obviate the need for ERS?  Other working group members have sought to use these formats as alternatives to RFC3161 timestamps within an EvidenceRecord.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7358C.2C7FA53E-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BDo0mR055916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:50:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BDo0MQ055915; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:50:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BDnuid055891; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA34802; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:53:28 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011114495446:72105 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:49:54 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:49:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" , "Tobias Gondrom" Subject: Re: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 14:49:54, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 14:49:55, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 14:49:55 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon665334633732_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon665334633732_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said: " The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats". Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ? Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document, I do not think that the documents should continue to progress. Denis Comments inline... > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd > > > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on > these documents. There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call. > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of > time to attempt to understand them. > > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to > report that they did. > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. > > This draft and its companion documents namely > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 > raise a number of questions to be solved. These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS. > > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord. The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. > > EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE { > version INTEGER { v1(1) } , > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, > ... > } > > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: > > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF > ArchiveTimeStampChain and > > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp > > and > > ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, > timeStamp ContentInfo} > > PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING > > Note that this information is spread all around the document, > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. > > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. > > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken > is computed. This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." > > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into > contradiction with the following sentence : > > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure > confirmation from the > TSA of these data. See above. > > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification. This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an > ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem? > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not. Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to > construct another one using a previous one. An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive > service. However, there is no signature from an archive > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may > not be held responsible of the storage of the data. This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation > between the cases of : > > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. > > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. This should be clarified. > > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous > structure may re-used. > > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is > informative or normative. > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained. > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either. Good point. > > CONCLUSION > > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos. We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate. > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3: > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens" > that is very close. > > It would be interesting that the authors position their > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped. The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. > > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write > this message, > but I do not have the time available to sustain long > discussions on that topic. Thanks for the review. > > Denis > --=====003_Dragon665334633732_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thank you for your quick response. I will make a quicker answer. You said:
 
" The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats".
 
Why is the ISO format insufficient ? Why was there a need to develop these documents ?
Unless the responses to these questions are given and added to the document,
I do not think that the documents should continue to progress.
 
Denis
 

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
> Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on
> these documents.

There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents
> are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of
> time to attempt to understand them.
>
> Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to
> report that they did.
> I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it.
>
> This draft and its companion documents namely
> draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of questions to be solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents.  One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax,
> otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call.  Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm.  I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo.  Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE {
>       version                   INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       digestAlgorithms          SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       cryptoInfos               [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       encryptionInfo            [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence,
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF
>                                 ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp
>
> and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
>      timeStamp       ContentInfo}
>
>    PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this information is spread all around the document,
> rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that
> timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. 

>
> There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to
> know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken
> is computed.

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped."

>
> If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried,
> the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into
> contradiction with the following sentence :
>
>    Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data,
>    timestamped data and a cryptographically secure
> confirmation from the
>    TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since
> it is not proven that this additional item will ever be
> useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data
> item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability
> can be obtained on these two fields using this specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft.


> ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a
> difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is this a problem?
 
> If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an
> archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a
> ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real
> value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would you want to have happen in this case?  As-is, verification would fail.  I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired.  There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp?  It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps.


> The current draft does not allow to apply the processing
> recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to
> construct another one using a previous one.

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. 


> This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive
> service. However, there is no signature from an archive
> service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive
> Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may
> not be held responsible of the storage of the data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an archive service.  However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record.  Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service.


> The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys.
> However, it does not make a clear and clean separation
> between the cases of :
>
> -     the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm exhibits collisions.
>
> With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is
> necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given
> asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and
> it is not clearly explained which data from the previous
> structure may re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is
> informative or normative.
> Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an
> EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained.
> The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either.

Good point.

>
> CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to
> the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The
> usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These
> documents are not mature and contain numerous typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate.
 
> The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens"
> that is very close.
>
> It would be interesting that the authors position their
> documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work
> should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this
> should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable
> explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats.

>
> P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write
> this message,
>         but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis
>


--=====003_Dragon665334633732_=====-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BCxebK052693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BCxeqs052691; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0BCxcWX052670 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 3463 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 12:58:54 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D691@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, Russ Housley , Tobias Gondrom Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:59:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88 Content-Type: text/plain Comments inline... > From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] > Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG > Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd > > > Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on > these documents. There is just one document that has been submitted for working group last call. > It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents > are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of > time to attempt to understand them. > > Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to > report that they did. > I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. > > This draft and its companion documents namely > draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 > raise a number of questions to be solved. These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of the last working group meeting. During the meeting, a call was made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the documents. One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no follow-up drafts have been released yet. > Let us look now at the details of ERS. > > No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, > otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an > obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord. The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during the previous working group last call. Minor errors can be corrected without much cause for alarm. I assume in this case you are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo. Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. > > EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE { > version INTEGER { v1(1) } , > digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, > cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, > encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, > archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, > ... > } > > Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: > > ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF > ArchiveTimeStampChain and > > ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp > > and > > ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { > digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, > reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, > timeStamp ContentInfo} > > PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING > > Note that this information is spread all around the document, > rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. > > ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that > timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a type other than TimeStampToken to be used. > > There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to > know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken > is computed. This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data objects, is timestamped." > > If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, > the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into > contradiction with the following sentence : > > Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, > timestamped data and a cryptographically secure > confirmation from the > TSA of these data. See above. > > CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since > it is not proven that this additional item will ever be > useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data > item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. > EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability > can be obtained on these two fields using this specification. This comment was made during a previous last call and resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures that could be conveyed in these fields. These could be defined in a peer document or defined in this draft. > ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of > ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a > difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an > ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The two are not used interchangably. Why is this a problem? > If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an > archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a > ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real > value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that > an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not. Why would one element be suppressed? What would you want to have happen in this case? As-is, verification would fail. I have commented previously that it might be better if the chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain up to the point from which verification was desired. There was no support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be no real need to have this feature. What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include a timestamp? It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have one or more timestamps. > The current draft does not allow to apply the processing > recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that > would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to > construct another one using a previous one. An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. The draft describes how to add additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence. I don't disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up with clearer alternative suggestions. > This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive > service. However, there is no signature from an archive > service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive > Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may > not be held responsible of the storage of the data. This document defines a syntax for representing a chain of cryptographic evidence. This syntax may be used by an archive service. However, no archive service is required to produce an evidence record. Archive service signatures are addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive service. > The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. > However, it does not make a clear and clean separation > between the cases of : > > - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, > - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, > - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. > > With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say that it is > necessary using "out of bands means" that a given key from a > Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given > asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. This should be clarified. > > "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash algorithm exhibits > collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and > it is not clearly explained which data from the previous > structure may re-used. > > Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is > informative or normative. > Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an > EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained. > The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either. Good point. > > CONCLUSION > > In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to > the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The > usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These > documents are not mature and contain numerous typos. We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to typos in -ari and -validate. > The primary question is : " Is this work really needed ?". SC > 27 has issued ISO 18014-3: > "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens" > that is very close. > > It would be interesting that the authors position their > documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work > should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this > should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable > explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped. The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp formats. > > P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write > this message, > but I do not have the time available to sustain long > discussions on that topic. Thanks for the review. > > Denis > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: = draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd

Comments inline...

> From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] =
> Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from = LTANS WG - RE: WG
> Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until = Jan 23rd
>
>
> Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS = mailing list on
> these documents.

There is just one document that has been submitted = for working group last call.

> It may be questionable why. The fact is that = these documents
> are badly written, and thus it takes an = enormous amount of
> time to attempt to understand them.
>
> Even though, most readers will fail, but will = not dare to
> report that they did.
> I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare = to report it.
>
> This draft and its companion documents namely =
> draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and = draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00
> raise a number of questions to be = solved.

These two drafts were prepared quickly in advance of = the last working group meeting.  During the meeting, a call was = made for additional co-authors to help clarify and complete the = documents.  One person has joined Tobias in this effort but no = follow-up drafts have been released yet.

> Let us look now at the details of ERS.
>
> No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the = syntax,
> otherwise, it would have been noticed that = there is an
> obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord.

The ASN.1 was changed as a result of comments during = the previous working group last call.  Minor errors can be = corrected without much cause for alarm.  I assume in this case you = are referring to the missing 's' at the end of EncryptionInfo.  = Also, the id-EvidenceRecord-Internal and id-EvidenceRecord-External = values are missing OBJECT IDENTIFIER. 

>
>    EvidenceRecord ::=3D SEQUENCE = {
>       = version           = ;        INTEGER { v1(1) } ,
>       = digestAlgorithms          = SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,
>       = cryptoInfos          &= nbsp;    [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL,
>       = encryptionInfo         &nbs= p;  [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL,
>       = archiveTimeStampSequence  ArchiveTimeStampSequence,
>       ...
>       }
>
> Later on the text defines = ArchiveTimeStampSequence as:
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampSequence = ::=3D SEQUENCE OF
>          = ;            = ;           = ArchiveTimeStampChain and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStampChain ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp
>
> and
>
>    ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D = SEQUENCE {
>      digestAlgorithm = [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
>      reducedHashtree = [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
>      = timeStamp       ContentInfo}
>
>    PartialHashtree ::=3D = SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING
>
> Note that this information is spread all around = the document,
> rather than presented in sequence which does = not ease its reading.
>
> ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This = means that
> timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken = rather than ContentInfo.

timeStamp was defined as a ContentInfo to allow a = type other than TimeStampToken to be used. 

>
> There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of = page 11) to
> know on which data the digest contained in the = TimeStampToken
> is computed.

This info appears in Section 4 (middle of page 10): = "The root hash value, which represents unambiguously all data = objects, is timestamped."

>
> If another kind of time-stamp token would need = to be carried,
> the syntax would need to be changed. This comes = into
> contradiction with the following sentence = :
>
>    Other types of timestamp MAY = be used, if they contain time data,
>    timestamped data and a = cryptographically secure
> confirmation from the
>    TSA of these data.

See above.

>
> CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be = suppressed, since
> it is not proven that this additional item will = ever be
> useful: encryption techniques may be different = for each data
> item and thus cannot apply globally at the = level of an EvidenceRecord.
> EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No = interoperability
> can be obtained on these two fields using this = specification.

This comment was made during a previous last call and = resulted in Tobias' posting to the list a few instances of structures = that could be conveyed in these fields.  These could be defined in = a peer document or defined in this draft.

 
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of =
> ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a = sequence of
> ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to = make a
> difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and = an
> ArchiveTimeStampSequence.

The two are not used interchangably.  Why is = this a problem?
 
> If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within = of an
> archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a =
> ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What = is the real
> value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One = would expect that
> an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. = However, it does not not.

Why would one element be suppressed?  What would = you want to have happen in this case?  As-is, verification would = fail.  I have commented previously that it might be better if the = chain supported shallow verification, which would enable you to = suppress a contiguous set of elements from the beginning of the chain = up to the point from which verification was desired.  There was no = support for making a change along these lines, and there seemed to be = no real need to have this feature. 

What do you mean the EvidenceRecord does not include = a timestamp?  It includes ArchiveTimeStampSequence, which may have = one or more timestamps.

 
> The current draft does not allow to apply the = processing
> recursively. Having constructed one = EvidenceRecord (that
> would include a time stamp), it is currently = not possible to
> construct another one using a previous one. =

An EvidenceRecord is a wrapper around an = ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  The draft describes how to add = additional ArchiveTimeStamps to the last ArchiveTimeStampChain in an = ArchiveTimeStampSequence as well as how to add a new = ArchiveTimeStampChain to the ArchiveTimeStampSequence.  I don't = disagree that trying to follow discussion of these three = similarly-named structures is difficult, but have failed to come up = with clearer alternative suggestions. 

 
> This document is supposed to apply to a long = term archive
> service. However, there is no signature from an = archive
> service. The TSA should not be confused with a = Archive
> Authority. With the current structure the = Archive service may
> not be held responsible of the storage of the = data.

This document defines a syntax for representing a = chain of cryptographic evidence.  This syntax may be used by an = archive service.  However, no archive service is required to = produce an evidence record.  Archive service signatures are = addressed in the context of a protocol for interacting with an archive = service.

 
> The draft claims to protect against weak = algorithms or keys.
> However, it does not make a clear and clean = separation
> between the cases of :
>
> -     the key of a = Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised,
> -     an asymmetric = algorithm has been broken for a given key size,
> -     a hash algorithm = exhibits collisions.
>
> With "Timestamp renewal" the text omits to say = that it is
> necessary using "out of bands means" that a = given key from a
> Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a = that given
> asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a = given key size.

This should be clarified.

>
> "Hash-Tree renewal" would apply when hash = algorithm exhibits
> collisions. However a complete reconstruction = is needed and
> it is not clearly explained which data from the = previous
> structure may re-used.
>
> Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said = whether it is
> informative or normative.
> Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of = an
> EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not = explained.
> The advantages and drawbacks of each case is = not explained either.

Good point.

>
> CONCLUSION
>
> In my opinion, none of these documents is ready = to be sent to
> the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS = alone. The
> usefulness of the whole work is very = questionable. These
> documents are not mature and contain numerous = typos.

We should not cloud the review of ERS by referring to = typos in -ari and -validate.
 
> The primary question is : " Is this work really = needed ?". SC
> 27 has issued ISO 18014-3:
> "Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing = linked tokens"
> that is very close.
>
> It would be interesting that the authors = position their
> documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication = of work
> should be avoided. If there is no duplication, = then this
> should be explained in an informative annex. If = no acceptable
> explanations may be given, then this work = should be stopped.

The ISO drafts have been discussed on the list and = are referenced by this document as a source for alternative timestamp = formats.

>
> P.S. I spent several hours to read the = documents and to write
> this message,
>         = but I do not have the time available to sustain long
> discussions on that topic.

Thanks for the review.

>
> Denis
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C73580.56375F88-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAKU7M038231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BAKUGn038230; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAKOBX038214; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:20:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32186; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:23:55 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011111201809:66438 ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:20:15 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "Russ Housley" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- until Jan 23rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 11:20:18, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 11/01/2007 11:20:20, Serialize complete at 11/01/2007 11:20:20 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0BAKTBX038219 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Nearly no comments were sent on the LTANS mailing list on these documents. It may be questionable why. The fact is that these documents are badly written, and thus it takes an enormous amount of time to attempt to understand them. Even though, most readers will fail, but will not dare to report that they did. I am unsure that I understood them, but I dare to report it. This draft and its companion documents namely draft-ietf-ltans-ari-00 and draft-ietf-ltans-validate-00 raise a number of questions to be solved. Let us look now at the details of ERS. No ASN.1 compiler has been used to validate the syntax, otherwise, it would have been noticed that there is an obvious ASN.1 error on EvidenceRecord. EvidenceRecord ::= SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, cryptoInfos [0] CryptoInfos OPTIONAL, encryptionInfo [1] EncryptionInfo OPTIONAL, archiveTimeStampSequence ArchiveTimeStampSequence, ... } Later on the text defines ArchiveTimeStampSequence as: ArchiveTimeStampSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampChain ::= SEQUENCE OF ArchiveTimeStamp and ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING Note that this information is spread all around the document, rather than presented in sequence which does not ease its reading. ContentInfo is supposed to carry a TST. This means that timeStamp should be defined as TimeStampToken rather than ContentInfo. There is no explanation in section 4.1 (top of page 11) to know on which data the digest contained in the TimeStampToken is computed. If another kind of time-stamp token would need to be carried, the syntax would need to be changed. This comes into contradiction with the following sentence : Other types of timestamp MAY be used, if they contain time data, timestamped data and a cryptographically secure confirmation from the TSA of these data. CryptoInfos from EvidenceRecord should be suppressed, since it is not proven that this additional item will ever be useful: encryption techniques may be different for each data item and thus cannot apply globally at the level of an EvidenceRecord. EncryptionInfo should be suppressed too. No interoperability can be obtained on these two fields using this specification. ArchiveTimeStampSequence is a sequence of ArchiveTimeStampChain which is itself a sequence of ArchiveTimeStamp. However, there is no way to make a difference between an ArchiveTimeStampChain and an ArchiveTimeStampSequence. If within an EvidenceRecord, one element within of an archiveTimeStampSequence is suppressed (e.g. a ArchiveTimeStamp) this is not detectable. What is the real value of the EvidenceRecord structure ? One would expect that an EvidenceRecord includes a time stamp. However, it does not not. The current draft does not allow to apply the processing recursively. Having constructed one EvidenceRecord (that would include a time stamp), it is currently not possible to construct another one using a previous one. This document is supposed to apply to a long term archive service. However, there is no signature from an archive service. The TSA should not be confused with a Archive Authority. With the current structure the Archive service may not be held responsible of the storage of the data. The draft claims to protect against weak algorithms or keys. However, it does not make a clear and clean separation between the cases of : - the key of a Time-Stamping Unit has been compromised, - an asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size, - a hash algorithm exhibits collisions. With “Timestamp renewal” the text omits to say that it is necessary using “out of bands means” that a given key from a Time Stamping Unit has been compromised or a that given asymmetric algorithm has been broken for a given key size. “Hash-Tree renewal” would apply when hash algorithm exhibits collisions. However a complete reconstruction is needed and it is not clearly explained which data from the previous structure may re-used. Appendix A contains an annex and it is not said whether it is informative or normative. Nevertheless, the benefits of the inclusion of an EvidenceRecord as an unsigned attribute are not explained. The advantages and drawbacks of each case is not explained either. CONCLUSION In my opinion, none of these documents is ready to be sent to the IESG and it does not make sense to send ERS alone. The usefulness of the whole work is very questionable. These documents are not mature and contain numerous typos. The primary question is : “ Is this work really needed ?”. SC 27 has issued ISO 18014-3: “Time-stamp services. Mechanisms producing linked tokens” that is very close. It would be interesting that the authors position their documents towards the ISO standard. Duplication of work should be avoided. If there is no duplication, then this should be explained in an informative annex. If no acceptable explanations may be given, then this work should be stopped. P.S. I spent several hours to read the documents and to write this message, but I do not have the time available to sustain long discussions on that topic. Denis >Hello dear SMIME WG, > >at the last meeting of the LTANS WG in San Diego, Russ recommended to >ask your WG for a cross review of the ERS draft in its final stage (it >is currently in WGLC). > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > >It would be nice if some of you could read the draft, review it and >provide your feedback. > >(As probably most of you already know the draft is about the data >structure for an Evidence Record to ensure and protect integrity of data >and signatures even when the algorithms used at signing time become >insecure at a later point in time.) > >WG Last Call runs until January 23rd. >If some of you need longer, please send me a note about how much time >you need. > >Thank you very much for your help, Tobias >Chair of LTANS > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tobias Gondrom >> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:12 PM >> To: ietf-ltans@imc.org >> Cc: 'Carl Wallace' >> Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd >> Importance: High >> >> Hello dear LTANS WG, >> >> with the small adjustments made in version-9, based on the discussion >at >> the meeting in San Diego, I again initiate the formal final WG last >call. >> (Hopefully this time it will really be the last one ;-) ) >> >> Additionally I will also ask the SMIME WG for cross review of the >draft as >> it has been discussed and decided at the last meeting in San Diego. >> >> WG Last Call closes on January 23rd. After which the revised document >will >> hopefully be ready for submission to the IESG. >> >> Thank you, Tobias >> >> >> Ps.: btw. the ltans-reqs document passed the IETF Last Call and is now >in >> its final preparation phase by the IETF editor team. >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf- >> ltans@mail.imc.org] >> > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:50 AM >> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> > Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org >> > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> > directories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary >Services >> > Working Group of the IETF. >> > >> > Title : Evidence Record Syntax (ERS) >> > Author(s) : R. Brandner, et al. >> > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > Pages : 29 >> > Date : 2007-1-4 >> > >> > In many scenarios, users must be able prove the existence and >> > integrity of data, including digitally signed data, in a common >and >> > reproducible way over a long and possibly undetermined period of >> > time. This document specifies the syntax and processing of an >> > Evidence Record, a structure designed to support long-term non- >> > repudiation of existence of data. >> > >> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt >> > >> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body >of >> > the message. >> > You can also visit >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> > to change your subscription settings. >> > >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> > "get draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". >> > >> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > >> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> > >> > Send a message to: >> > mailserv@ietf.org. >> > In the body type: >> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". >> > >> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail >readers >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> > how to manipulate these messages. >> > >> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> > Internet-Draft. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09JMEBW068040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09JMEW0068039; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx02.ixos.de (mucmx02.ixos.de [149.235.128.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09JMCfG068027; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx02.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l09JM8lk012255; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:22:09 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:22:07 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A786893845F@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd Thread-Index: AccwXXGL+OsSET5oRdyh3NelwVPjJQDw409gAABLTCA= From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: Cc: "Carl Wallace" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l09JMDfG068028 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hello dear SMIME WG, at the last meeting of the LTANS WG in San Diego, Russ recommended to ask your WG for a cross review of the ERS draft in its final stage (it is currently in WGLC). http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt It would be nice if some of you could read the draft, review it and provide your feedback. (As probably most of you already know the draft is about the data structure for an Evidence Record to ensure and protect integrity of data and signatures even when the algorithms used at signing time become insecure at a later point in time.) WG Last Call runs until January 23rd. If some of you need longer, please send me a note about how much time you need. Thank you very much for your help, Tobias Chair of LTANS > -----Original Message----- > From: Tobias Gondrom > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:12 PM > To: ietf-ltans@imc.org > Cc: 'Carl Wallace' > Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt - until Jan 23rd > Importance: High > > Hello dear LTANS WG, > > with the small adjustments made in version-9, based on the discussion at > the meeting in San Diego, I again initiate the formal final WG last call. > (Hopefully this time it will really be the last one ;-) ) > > Additionally I will also ask the SMIME WG for cross review of the draft as > it has been discussed and decided at the last meeting in San Diego. > > WG Last Call closes on January 23rd. After which the revised document will > hopefully be ready for submission to the IESG. > > Thank you, Tobias > > > Ps.: btw. the ltans-reqs document passed the IETF Last Call and is now in > its final preparation phase by the IETF editor team. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf- > ltans@mail.imc.org] > > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:50 AM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org > > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary Services > > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Evidence Record Syntax (ERS) > > Author(s) : R. Brandner, et al. > > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > Pages : 29 > > Date : 2007-1-4 > > > > In many scenarios, users must be able prove the existence and > > integrity of data, including digitally signed data, in a common and > > reproducible way over a long and possibly undetermined period of > > time. This document specifies the syntax and processing of an > > Evidence Record, a structure designed to support long-term non- > > repudiation of existence of data. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt > > > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > > the message. > > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > > to change your subscription settings. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt". > > > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > > how to manipulate these messages. > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09D1eGL037755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09D1ehn037754; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09D1c8K037748 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24126 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:05:08 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007010914013665:12406 ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:01:36 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:01:35 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 14:01:36, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 14:01:37, Serialize complete at 09/01/2007 14:01:37 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean, My replies are in line too. >Dennis, > >Comments inline.. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] >On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 6:19 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt > > >Comments on draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt > >..snip > >However, this draft is unclear on how it applies. There are three types of >RPs concerned with this draft: > >a) RPs able to process "weak" algorithms, >b) RPs able to process "strong" algorithms only, and >c) RPs able to process both "weak" and "strong" algorithms. > >spt> The draft is intended to address all three types of RPs. This is what I believed, but these cases are not discussed in detail in the text. I am awaiting some new text. >In case a, the main advantage of this draft is to allow to link digital >signatures from the same signer in case of algorithm migration. If the RP >decodes a SignerInfo with the "strong" algo, then it cannot verify the >digital signature, but then it can easily figure out that there is another >signature with the weak algorithms that it can process. The draft is silent >about this scenario. > >spt> The main advantage of the draft is to allow you to know if an attacker >stripped off a SignerInfo. I will add the point about being easier able to >find the other signature if you only support one of the two. > >In case b, the RPs is only able to process strong algorithms. If the RP >decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that >there is another signature that it can process. >The draft is silent about this scenario. > >spt> See above. > >In case c, the RPs is able to process both the weak and the strong >algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can >also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. What >about if a single bit from the digital signature made with the stronger >algorithm is changed by an attacker ? The digital signature is not >suppressed, but becomes invalid. >What should the RP do ? The draft is silent about this scenario. > >spt> We will add text to address this - this part was going to go in to >section 5. OK. I am awaiting some new text. >The draft does not say either whether it applies to the verification of a >CMS structure at the present time or at a time in the past. > >If it is the present time, both the "weak" and "strong" algorithms are safe, >and there is no concern for the "downgrade attack". > >If it is a time in the past, then it is important to make a difference >between : > >- the weakness of hash algorithms, and >- the weakness of asymmetric algorithm of short keys. > >In the later case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature >provides a protection. > >In the former case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature >does not provide a protection, but an archive time-stamping provides a >protection, since a different and stronger hash algorithm may be used. > >This means that there exist solutions to handle the problem without the need >to use the new signed attribute. >spt> I do not believe time should have anything to do with this. If you're >not worried about downgrade attacks then don't use the attribute. The key point is to explain when this attribute is really useful. When you will have detailed the six cases, which case, if any, makes that attribute useful ? The anwser could be none. >In addition, RPs should know which hash algorithms is no more safe, which >means that they will not use the digital signature made with a weak >algorithm. They may try to use the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed >attribute to find out another signature made with a strong algorithm. In >other words, the "downgrade attack" >is not a concern, but the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute >is useful to link signatures from the same signer. The abstract should be >changed. Hereafter is a proposal: >spt> While this might be true there are times when an RP won't know and this >draft addresses those instances. Really ? I believe that the local security policy of the recipient needs to know whether SHA-1 is secure enough and whether SHA-1 is better or lower than SHA-256. > CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- > signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and > multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo > structures. During periods of algorithm migration, a signer may > wish to attach more than one SignerInfo. However, there is no > way to identify that they are from the same signer. This document > defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its > processing rules to allow a RP to detect SignerInfo structures > generated by the same signer. > >spt> The point of the draft is to protect against a downgrade attack and I >will not change the abstract because I believe your suggestion misses the >point of the draft. This point still needs to be proven. >The processing rules for the various RPs should be given (six cases should >be covered). >spt> Agreed that we need to fill in the processing rules. OK. I am awaiting some new text. >The MultipleSignature attribute, as defined, is not good enough, to >establish a link without ambiguity. > > MultipleSignature ::= SEQUENCE { > bodyHashAlg DigestAlgorithIdentifier, > signAlg SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signAttrsHash SignAttrsHash, > cert ESSCertIDv2 OPTIONAL} > >If the same algorithm are used (e.g. SHA-1 with RSA) bodyHashAlg and signAlg >will likely be the same. >If a signature has few signed attributes signAttrsHash will also likely be >the same. The difference will always be guaranteed with cert, which thus >should be made mandatory. >spt> No the digest alg is sha-1 and the signature alg is rsa with sha-1 so >the values are different. OK. You are correct. Denis >Denis Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09CqLIC036950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09CqLsf036949; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09CqHdk036934 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:52:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29588 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:55:47 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007010913521544:12154 ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:52:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:52:06 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 13:52:15, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/01/2007 13:52:16, Serialize complete at 09/01/2007 13:52:16 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon160717824385_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon160717824385_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 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l04HS4d7012456 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:28:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 45539 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2007 17:28:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.248.125 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2007 17:28:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8aeac.4VM1nw.Q1jjV8J1ck3VWkfoZJ2WHf7e4tnDyjKGkE4fHIQp2z.Z7quJ3mpO5UlNMCYA_amwIc1F9DeQd8UjWbLXyMsrEkjEfxDuGuuIb234HSJIG0Gr89Vv7_wWN4Cag.8b.YD3WHF.XnOWdfUBdE- Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: WG LC closed on draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:27:39 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <00ba01c73025$a2755470$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AccwJaIm83tvO10xQIe8IlyP74YfRA== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: All, The WG LC has closed on the draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign. I will now forward it to the Security AD and as noted earlier I will make sure to note Denis' concerns. spt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03Ei3cY006722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l03Ei3jZ006721; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l03Ei11w006714 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 77593 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2007 14:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.224.48 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2007 14:44:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7bbhQrgVM1nQ2C0aunptkW9ioPuG3SiX7FGBexsrcK2zvPbiBueAkcPTW_xYoT3AcG9lirGWp7IXL9hwlrpGzUbir2Jqqqf.1fIxtNS_XZJ8HaAcSUypKJrm55nbzlABNflsLtogPTzzP3ZYDYPc8UStC94- Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: WG LC closed on esscertid Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:43:43 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <01e101c72f45$90ec1b70$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AccvRZCrmPebDGuPSLqAKXdLdNq2Nw== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: All, The WG LC has closed on the esscertid. An updated draft has been published to address comments raised and I will now forward it to the Security AD. spt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03EeddD006563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l03EedI9006562; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.216]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l03EeZw4006553 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 90246 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2007 14:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@70.18.224.48 with login) by smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2007 14:40:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YJBsSz4VM1ntsiNU5mWLcGr0plK6ulv0uBnKLafIoImcZENFgCuRyy2HkTvyVtu7_6xrSB4RXPqg_c94Vok9UikdGEXkRDgkz970ucLA29nqyTDWNIbeupS4sQ3uiOYi5KBxTRRwobx9uOK9yT9w5Kk2lPYvyZ3fQGk4LLsWYxDeX5nCWOR7cx4hoRE5 Reply-To: From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:40:15 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <01e001c72f45$1523dff0$0201a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: Acco4zSwyGWi0t3gQLiD5VTwLn9jHAGXkrJw Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Dennis, Comments inline.. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 6:19 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Comments on draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt ..snip However, this draft is unclear on how it applies. There are three types of RPs concerned with this draft: a) RPs able to process "weak" algorithms, b) RPs able to process "strong" algorithms only, and c) RPs able to process both "weak" and "strong" algorithms. spt> The draft is intended to address all three types of RPs. In case a, the main advantage of this draft is to allow to link digital signatures from the same signer in case of algorithm migration. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "strong" algo, then it cannot verify the digital signature, but then it can easily figure out that there is another signature with the weak algorithms that it can process. The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> The main advantage of the draft is to allow you to know if an attacker stripped off a SignerInfo. I will add the point about being easier able to find the other signature if you only support one of the two. In case b, the RPs is only able to process strong algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> See above. In case c, the RPs is able to process both the weak and the strong algorithms. If the RP decodes a SignerInfo with the "weak" algo, then it can also figure out that there is another signature that it can process. What about if a single bit from the digital signature made with the stronger algorithm is changed by an attacker ? The digital signature is not suppressed, but becomes invalid. What should the RP do ? The draft is silent about this scenario. spt> We will add text to address this - this part was going to go in to section 5. The draft does not say either whether it applies to the verification of a CMS structure at the present time or at a time in the past. If it is the present time, both the "weak" and "strong" algorithms are safe, and there is no concern for the "downgrade attack". If it is a time in the past, then it is important to make a difference between : - the weakness of hash algorithms, and - the weakness of asymmetric algorithm of short keys. In the later case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature provides a protection. In the former case, time-stamping or time-marking over the digital signature does not provide a protection, but an archive time-stamping provides a protection, since a different and stronger hash algorithm may be used. This means that there exist solutions to handle the problem without the need to use the new signed attribute. spt> I do not believe time should have anything to do with this. If you're not worried about downgrade attacks then don't use the attribute. In addition, RPs should know which hash algorithms is no more safe, which means that they will not use the digital signature made with a weak algorithm. They may try to use the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute to find out another signature made with a strong algorithm. In other words, the "downgrade attack" is not a concern, but the newly defined MultipleSignatures signed attribute is useful to link signatures from the same signer. The abstract should be changed. Hereafter is a proposal: spt> While this might be true there are times when an RP won't know and this draft addresses those instances. CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo structures. During periods of algorithm migration, a signer may wish to attach more than one SignerInfo. However, there is no way to identify that they are from the same signer. This document defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its processing rules to allow a RP to detect SignerInfo structures generated by the same signer. spt> The point of the draft is to protect against a downgrade attack and I will not change the abstract because I believe your suggestion misses the point of the draft. The processing rules for the various RPs should be given (six cases should be covered). spt> Agreed that we need to fill in the processing rules. The MultipleSignature attribute, as defined, is not good enough, to establish a link without ambiguity. MultipleSignature ::= SEQUENCE { bodyHashAlg DigestAlgorithIdentifier, signAlg SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, signAttrsHash SignAttrsHash, cert ESSCertIDv2 OPTIONAL} If the same algorithm are used (e.g. SHA-1 with RSA) bodyHashAlg and signAlg will likely be the same. If a signature has few signed attributes signAttrsHash will also likely be the same. The difference will always be guaranteed with cert, which thus should be made mandatory. spt> No the digest alg is sha-1 and the signature alg is rsa with sha-1 so the values are different. Denis >It is a companion document, not a replacement. > >Russ > >At 05:28 AM 12/20/2006, Denis Pinkas wrote: > >>How does this document relate to ? >> >>Does it replace it ? >> >>Denis >> >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> >directories. >> >This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working >> Group of the IETF. >> > >> > Title : Multiple Signatures in S/MIME >> > Author(s) : S. Turner >> > Filename : draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt >> > Pages : >> > Date : 2006-12-19 >> > >> > CMS SignedData includes the SignerInfo structure to convey per- >> > signer information. SignedData supports multiple signers and >> > multiple signature algorithms per-signer with multiple SignerInfo >> > structures. If a signer attaches more than one >> SignerInfo, there are >> > concerns that an attacker could perform a downgrade attack by >> > removing the SignerInfo(s) with the 'stronger' algorithm(s). This >> > document defines a signed attribute, its generation rules, and its >> > processing rules to allow signers to convey multiple SignerInfo >> > while protecting against downgrade attacks. Additionally, this >> > attribute may assist during periods of algorithm migration. >> > >> > >> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt >> > >> >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body >> >of the message. >> >You can also visit >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> >to change your subscription settings. >> > >> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get >> >draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt". >> > >> >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or >> >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > >> >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> > >> >Send a message to: >> > mailserv@ietf.org. >> >In the body type: >> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt". >> > >> >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> > how to manipulate these messages. >> > >> >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> >Internet-Draft. >> > >> >Content-Type: text/plain >> >Content-ID: <2006-12-19135046.I-D@ietf.org> >> > >> >ENCODING mime >> >FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko66s026046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02Ko6WG026043; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko3rL026013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7181626EC4; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H1qaA-0002nG-9S; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : The CMS AuthEnvelopedData Content Type Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2007-1-2 This document describes an additional content type for the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). The AuthEnvelopedData content type is intended for use with authenticated encryption modes. All of the various key management techniques that are supported in the EnvelopedData content type are also supported by the AuthEnvelopedData content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-2130428.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-2130428.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ie8XF086312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02Ie8cu086309; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l02Ie27b086267 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 14620 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2007 18:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (71.246.224.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2007 18:39:57 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070102130939.03e01dd0@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 13:33:49 -0500 To: Denis.Pinkas@bull.net, ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20061227122028.03f0fc10@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis:

I do not know how to constructively continue this discussion.  We do not seem to be communicating with each other.

Trying one more time...  See below.

[Russ]
Denis:

We are talking about signatures on CMS object, not signatures on
certificates. The recipient of the signed CMS object needs to be
able to validate the signature on the certificate as well as the CMS
signed object.

If the signer has a certified RSA public key, then the signer can
sign a CMS object using both RSA with SHA-1 and RSA with
SHA-256. Each one will be a SignerInfo, and the sid (using either
the issuerAndSerialNumber or the subjectKeyIdentifier) in each of
them will identify the same certified public key.

[Denis]
 
If the algorithm is "RSA" rather than "a hash function + RSA", then it works.
However, this kind of explanation is lacking in the current draft.

In most certificates used for S/MIME today, the subject public key identifier contains the algorithm identifier listed in 2.3.1 of RFC 3279:

   The OID rsaEncryption identifies RSA public keys.

      pkcs-1 OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { iso(1) member-body(2) us(840)
                     rsadsi(113549) pkcs(1) 1 }

      rsaEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::=  { pkcs-1 1}

Then, the CMS SignerInfo indicates RSA as well as the one-way hash function that is used for the encapsulated content.  These are the OID that I found in the RFCs:

      md2WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 2 }

      md5WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 4 }

      sha-1WithRSAEncryption OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 5 }

      sha224WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 14 }

      sha256WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 11 }

      sha384WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 12 }

      sha512WithRSAEncryption  OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::=  { pkcs-1 13 }

The certificate does not require the subject public key to be used with any particular one-way hash function, but the signature itself tells which one-way hash function way employed by the signer.  None of this is new!

What text needs to be added to the document?  I am willing to consider additional text, but so far, I do not see a need.

 [Russ]

If the RSA public key is placed in two certificates, one signed by
the CA using RSA with SHA-1 and the other signed by the CA using RSA
with SHA-256, then you get a better situation from a cryptographic
strength perspective. However, the subject key identifier will be
the same in both certificates, which allows the recipient to easily
detect that the signatures are from the same signer if that form of
sid is used. Which is the one that S/MIME has been encouraging for
quite some years, mostly due to size.
[Denis]
 
I disagree. RFC 3280 states:
 
4.2.1.2  Subject Key Identifier

   The subject key identifier extension provides a means of identifying
   certificates that contain a particular public key.

   (...)

   For end entity certificates, subject key identifiers SHOULD be
   derived from the public key.

You did not quote the part of Section 4.2.1.2 of RFC 3280 that describe the most commonly used technique for computing a key identifier:

      (1) The keyIdentifier is composed of the 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the
      value of the BIT STRING subjectPublicKey (excluding the tag,
      length, and number of unused bits).

If the two certificates contain the same RSA public key, then this value will most certainly be the same!

 Since the public keys will be different, the subject key identifiers will NOT be the same in both certificates.

Again, if the two certificates contain the same RSA public key, then this value will most certainly be the same!  You seem to be making some unstated assumptions about certification policies.

If the certificates are issued by the same CA, the subject field from the certificate would normally be the same.
If the certificates are not issued by the same CA, the permanent identifier, if present would help.
These kinds of explanations are lacking in the current draft.

I am not trying to distinguish the certificates.  The issuer and serial number would allow me to do that.

At this point, I do not know what else to say.  I am going to leave it to the S/MIME WG Chairs to determine what changes, if any, are needed to resolve your Last Call comment.

Russ
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([129.185.200.54]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2007010213531616:9844 ; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:53:16 +0100 Reply-To: Denis.Pinkas@bull.net From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-multisig-00.txt Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:53:14 +0100 Message-Id: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20061227122028.03f0fc10@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: DreamMail 4.3.2.1 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/01/2007 13:53:16, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/01/2007 13:53:17, Serialize complete at 02/01/2007 13:53:17 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_07010213531377974051341_002" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: ------=_NextPart_07010213531377974051341_002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Ellen pompeo elsa benitez pataky, emanuela folliero emily.
Traci lords tricia helfer tyra uma thurman, ef vanessa.
Werbowy debra messing delta goodrem diane lane?
Amerie, amy acker adams nuttall smart?
Witmer tammin sursok, tara reid tatiana golovin.
Ebony, bukkake deepthroat albas, creampie literotica daddy daughter topless.
Hollywood tuna kick greatest, followed awesome very.
Comics halle berry, video, daves bbq men.
Sevigny christie, brinkley applegate ricci christine christy turlington chyler.
Ellen pompeo elsa benitez pataky, emanuela folliero emily.
 
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([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6kQ5-0006ML-2B for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:15:54 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0G8RS03025765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0G8RRnD025764; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0G8ROi4025748; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12628; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:30:51 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011609271344:3931 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:08 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" , "'Russ Housley'" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 09:27:13, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 09:27:15, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 09:27:15 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon304872843802_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9d5866e4c615ceea0db8f42c46495d22 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon304872843802_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. In order to understand LTAP, there is the need to wait until page 28, where the operations are only sketched : - The ARCHIVE operation applies to "rawData and a messageDigest" without any information on these two pieces of information and their relationship, if any, with ERS. - The STATUS operation is hardly defined. - The EXPORT operation returns "data and metadata of the object" without any information on these two pieces of information and their relationship, if any, with ERS. - The DELETE operation "returns the updated metadata (or nothing)" without any information on this piece of information and its relationship, if any, with ERS. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. Denis Denis, Thanks for the analysis. Regarding: ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation. Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record. I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4. For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record. It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times. For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided. For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement. Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level. Perhaps the following: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, policy [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed. Carl ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM To: ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs". Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3 and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost and be used to write an informative annex. There are indeed much more important topics. ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ? However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document are not met by the current ERS draft. Here are a few examples : 1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ? 2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp! tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply, since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ? 3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object since that time". 4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However, ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object. 5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support the "long-term archive service policy". 6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which an LTA operates may undergo modification. Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object." However, the ER does not contain such an information. 7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data". However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence. This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements. Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal. In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need). TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, reducedHashtree SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree, timeStamp TimeStampToken } PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE { notBefore GeneralizedTime, notAfter GeneralizedTime } CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters. The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element. If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree. This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode. Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature. This leads to the following structure: EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE { version INTEGER { v1(1) } , digestAlgorithms SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier, archivalPolicy ArchivalPolicy, archivalTimePeriod ArchivalTimePeriod, cryptoMaintenancePolicy CryptoMaintenancePolicy, evidenceRecord EvidenceRecord, -- the evidence record that serves -- for the construction signedNodeSequence SignedNodeSequence OPTIONAL, -- the elements that are added -- to the previous evidence timeStamp TimeStampToken } with: signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token. The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element. This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord. This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above. Denis ________________________________ Tony, I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis. However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction. I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling. One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data. This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure. This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again. The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal. This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS. However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed. In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data. In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not. It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension). I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations. For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec. Carl ________________________________ From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley' Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl: I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed). Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind. In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology. Tony -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details. Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord. You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures. I simply asked for justification. ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd Carl, Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs. I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ? A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options. Denis ________________________________ --=====003_Dragon304872843802_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements.
 
In order to understand LTAP, there is the need to wait until page 28,
where the operations are only sketched :
 
- The ARCHIVE operation applies to "rawData and a messageDigest"
   without any information on these two pieces of information and
   their relationship, if any, with ERS.
 
 - The STATUS operation is hardly defined.
 
 - The EXPORT operation returns "data and metadata of the object"
   without any information on these two pieces of information and
   their relationship, if any, with ERS.
 
 - The DELETE operation "returns the updated metadata (or nothing)"
   without any information on this piece of information and its relationship,
   if any, with ERS.
 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent.
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it.
 
Denis
 

Denis,
 
Thanks for the analysis.  Regarding:
 
ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?
 
We've been proceeding with ERS + LTAP intended to meet the requirements, not ERS in isolation.  Thus, some of the information you mentioned is addressed at the protocol level, not in the evidence record.  I think this is certainly true of items 1, 2 and 4.  For item 3, the service can provide the evidence without contributing signatures to the evidence record.  It simply has to be trusted to take the appropriate renewal actions at the right times.  For item 7, the period is implied by the time in the innermost timestamp and the outermost timestamp and the evidence record is itself the evidence being provided.


For items 5 and 6, I agree that the ArchiveTimestamp is probably the best place to represent the policies to meet this requirement.  Since these values can change over time, they are not as easily represented in an outer wrapper applied at the protocol level.  Perhaps the following:


   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,
     policy          [1] OBJECT IDENTIFIER OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}

Using this structure, the policy would be asserted when a renewal is performed.
 
Carl


________________________________

        From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
        Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM
        To: ietf-smime@imc.org
        Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
        Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd
       
       

        I said in an earlier e-mail: "The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs".

        Carl has provided interesting information to explain the differences with ISO ISO-18014-3

        and why ERS is different. The main advantage is the use of "ordinary" time-stamps rather

        than time-stamps with specific extensions. However, this information should not be lost

        and be used to write an informative annex.

        

        There are indeed much more important topics.

        

        ERS is supposed to respond to draft-ietf-ltans-reqs-10.txt, isn'it ?

        

        However, many of the requirements that are present in the requirements document

        are not met by the current ERS draft.

        

        Here are a few examples :

                1. ltans-reqs-10 defines an Archival Period as "The period during which an archived
        data object is preserved by a long-term archive service". How may a long term-archive
        service be held responsible of storing the data during that time-period, since
        the information to know the time period is not present in the ER ?
                2. ltans-reqs-10 defines a Cryp!
        tographic Maintenance Policy. There is no corresponding
        element in ERS. How can a long term-archive service know which maintenance to apply,
        since the information to perform the maintenance correctly is not present in ER ?

                3. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 7: A long-term archive service provides evidence
        that may be used to demonstrate the existence of an archived data object at a given time
        and the integrity of the archived data object since that time. The ER is supposed
        to be the basic piece of data to support that evidence. However, it is not signed
        by the long term-archive service, thus it cannot be used "to demonstrate the existence
        of an archived data object at a given time and the integrity of the archived data object
        since that time".
                4. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 7: "Additionally, the evidence identifies the LTA(s)
        that have participated in the preservation of the archived data object". However,
        ER does not contain the names of the LTA(s) that have participated in the preservation
        of the archived data object.
                5. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 9: "A long-term archive service must operate in accordance
        with a long-term archive service policy that defines characteristics of the implementation
        of the long-term archive service". However, ER does not contain a data item to support
        the "long-term archive service policy".
                6. ltans-reqs-10 adds on page 10: " Over the course of many years, the policies under which
        an LTA operates may undergo modification.  Thus, an evidence record may feature multiple
        indications of policies active at various points during the life of an archived data object."
        However, the ER does not contain such an information.

                7. ltans-reqs-10 states on page 11: "A long-term archive service must be capable of providing
        evidence that can be used to demonstrate the integrity of data for which it is responsible
        from the time it received the data until the expiration of the archival period of the data".
        However, no data item is specified in ER to provide this evidence.
       
        This means that much work is still needed on the document to fulfill the requirements.

        

        Now, let us see what should be done. The following is obviously an unpolished strawman proposal.

        

        In order to reduce the number of time stamps, it is necessary to be able to aggregate data
        before applying a time stamp on it. For doing it, the following structure (close to the
        structure of ArchiveTimeStamp, but different) would fulfill the need).

        

           TimeStampedNode ::= SEQUENCE {

             digestAlgorithm        [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,

             archivalPolicy             ArchivalPolicy,

             archivalTimePeriod         ArchivalTimePeriod,

             cryptoMaintenancePolicy    CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

             reducedHashtree            SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree,

             timeStamp                  TimeStampToken }

        

           PartialHashtree ::= SEQUENCE OF OCTET STRING

        

           ArchivalPolicy::= OBJECT IDENTIFIER

                

           ArchivalTimePeriod ::= SEQUENCE {

                notBefore      GeneralizedTime,

                notAfter       GeneralizedTime }

                

        CryptoMaintenancePolicy would need more work to be defined, but basically
        would contain a sequence of algorithm identifiers with their parameters.

                

        The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the data in the tree and to the crypto of
        the time stamp token.

        

        The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the reducedHashtree element.

        

        If this structure is signed by an agent from an archival service, then it can be used
        to demonstrate that a given agent from an LTA has accepted to archive, under a given
        policy for a given time period, the data items that are under the hash tree.

        

        This means that TimeStampedNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
        an LTA agent in order to form a SignedNode.

        

        Later on, the same, another or more LTA agents may need to add some other data to
        a signed Node, without loosing the previous time-stamp and signature.

        

        This leads to the following structure:

        

           EvidenceNode ::= SEQUENCE {

              version                        INTEGER { v1(1) } ,

              digestAlgorithms               SEQUENCE OF AlgorithmIdentifier,

              archivalPolicy                 ArchivalPolicy,

              archivalTimePeriod             ArchivalTimePeriod,

              cryptoMaintenancePolicy        CryptoMaintenancePolicy,

              evidenceRecord                 EvidenceRecord,

                                             -- the evidence record that serves

                                             -- for the construction

              signedNodeSequence             SignedNodeSequence   OPTIONAL,

                                             -- the elements that are added

                                             -- to the previous evidence

              timeStamp                      TimeStampToken }

        

        with:

        

           signedNodeSequence ::= SEQUENCE OF SignedNode

        

        The CryptoMaintenancePolicy applies to the previous evidence record, to all
        the data that are in the tree and to the crypto of the time stamp token.

        

        The hash included in the TimeStampToken is computed on the concatenation of the
        evidenceRecord element and of the signedNodeSequence element.

        

        This means that EvidenceNode must be the eContent of a CMS message signed by
        an LTA agent in order to form an EvidenceRecord.

        

        This new proposal fulfills the seven requirements mentioned here above.

        

        Denis

        

________________________________

                Tony,
        
        I think Denis should provide additional details when calling for a working group item to be dropped, especially when making this request this late in the process with non-freely available documents as the basis.  However, I'll try to make the case in the other direction.

        
                I don't think it's simply a case of too many options that require profiling.  One motivation often cited during the development of ERS is support for aggregations of data.  This is represented in ERS via the reducedHashtree field in the ArchiveTimeStamp structure.  This field and the related ArchiveTimeStampChain and ArchiveTimeStampSequence structures allow handling of the aggregation when the initial timestamp is generated, when simple timestamp renewal is required as well as when simple timestamp renewal is not sufficient and the original data must be hashed again.

        
        The ISO spec uses the ExtRenewal extension for timestamp renewal.  This is roughly analogous to the timestamp renewal feature in ERS.  However, there does not seem to be sufficient support for cases where the hash algorithm is updated and the original data must be rehashed.  In ERS, when a hash algorithm update is necessary, the preceding timestamp tokens are hashed along with the original data.  In the ISO spec, an existing timestamp token is presented for renewal but the original data is not.  It may be possible to make this work using the extHash extension, but I don't see any description of this in the current spec (nor do I see any text that describes verification of the ExtRenewal extension).  I don't follow how the aggregation mechanisms in the ISO spec can be used to aggregate data for the initial timestamp well enough to compare them to ERS. 

        
        ERS support for aggregation is more clearly stated and ERS provides more complete handling of renewal operations.  For these reasons, I think we should proceed with ERS instead of trying to enhance the ISO spec.

        
        Carl


________________________________

                From: Tony Capel [mailto:capel@comgate.com]
                Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:04 AM
                To: 'Carl Wallace'; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org
                Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Tobias Gondrom'; 'Russ Housley'
                Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

               
               
                Carl:
                
                I think Denis asks simply for the justification for the introduction of new technology to solve a problem which may already be solved with an existing ISO standard (which has already been published and is presumably more mature than what is being proposed).

                
                Denis notes (in his previous comment) that perhaps the ISO standard offers too many options and that perhaps a Profile of this ISO standard might be published as an RFC to tailor the ISO standard for the specific application(s) you have in mind.  In such a case the RFC should profile (see ISO/IEC TR10000) the ISO standard and not introduce new technology.

                
                Tony

                

                -----Original Message-----
                From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wallace
                Sent: January 11, 2007 10:16 AM
                To: Denis Pinkas; ietf-smime@imc.org
                Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Tobias Gondrom; Russ Housley
                Subject: RE: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

               
               
                My response wasn't a reversal of the question but a request for details.  Folks on the list have previously discussed these specifications, including their use within an EvidenceRecord.  You made a sweeping comment that lacked any details and called for fairly drastic measures.  I simply asked for justification.


________________________________

                        From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
                        Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:46 AM
                        To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
                        Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; Russ Housley; Tobias Gondrom
                        Subject: Re: RE: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG - RE: WG Last Ca ll:draft-ietf-ltans-ers-09.txt- untilJan 23rd

                       
                       
                        Carl,
                        
                        Please do not reverse the question. ISO 18014-3 already exists. The WG has to justify why it would not fulfill its needs.

                        I will refine my question: Why is a profile of ISO 18014-3 not adequate to fulfill the needs ?
                        A profile would make sense, since ISO 18014-3 has many options.
                        
                        Denis

________________________________


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(qmail 6943 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;16 Jan 2007 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygmxs1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.7) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 11:37:59 -0000 Received: by scygmxs1.cygnacom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:38:45 -0500 Message-ID: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> From: Carl Wallace To: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:38:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36 Content-Type: text/plain inline... _____ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. [CRW] This should be added. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. Carl ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36 Content-Type: text/html
inline...


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 
[CRW] ERS is currently the focus.  Not LTAP. 
 
 <snip> 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in ERS.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.  
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. 
[CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData." 
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
[CRW] This should be added.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 
[CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance:
 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes          [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}
 
I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP.
 
Carl
------_=_NextPart_001_01C73962.E0FD5E36-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 16 09:27:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6pHd-0003fI-Uv for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6pHc-0000qN-C3 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:29 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GDt4bw055486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GDt4ds055485; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from edelweb.fr (edelweb.fr [212.234.46.16]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GDt2cO055470; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Peter.Sylvester@edelweb.fr) Received: from [193.51.14.5] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by edelweb.fr (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l0GDsj510900; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:54:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from [193.51.14.5] (emeriau.edelweb.fr [193.51.14.5]) by edelweb.fr (nospam/2.4); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:54:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <45ACD8AA.5040009@edelweb.fr> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:52:42 +0100 From: Peter Sylvester User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Wallace CC: Denis Pinkas , ietf-smime@imc.org, ietf-ltans@imc.org, "'Russ Housley'" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd References: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> In-Reply-To: <886F5D4C78AFB14D87261206BFB9612E1C41D7DD@scygmxs1.cygnacom.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030007080403040006090406" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030007080403040006090406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. > Right. > > ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. > [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally > encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication > and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." > > About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following > sentence: "Note that this does not mean that > the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete > operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. > Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is > trusted to keep the data until the end of > the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner > of the data shall be given, before deletion > can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. > > [CRW] This should be added. > The details how a delete request is authenticated is outside of scope of LTAP as well as management of ownerships etc. A trace record means: "At this place there had been some data which can be described by (list of some metadata), they had been deleted (metadata about that fact)." It is not the backend LTA that creates all these metedata, the frontend that authenticates the request prepares some of them. The LTA does not make complicated decisions. An example of a higher level front end protocol on can take something like the French proposal of the National Archives. 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1H6qv3-0007EL-MB for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:12:20 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFVnuE065622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GFVnmq065620; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFVlXn065609; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23248; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:35:20 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011616314066:14869 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:31:40 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:31:38 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Carl Wallace" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Cc: "ietf-ltans@imc.org" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:31:40, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:31:43, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 16:31:43 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon650452802867_=====" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff0adf256e4dd459cc25215cfa732ac1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon650452802867_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings. This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements whereas ERS does not. I simply reiterate my position: - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. - ERS is not mature. - LTAP is not mature. - ARI is not mature. - validate is not mature. - ERS needs major revisions. - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG. Denis inline... From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP. The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. It is never mentioned that a response is signed. ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient. Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. [CRW] This should be added. Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE { digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL, reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL, timeStamp ContentInfo} I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. Carl --=====003_Dragon650452802867_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
 
I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings.
 
This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails
and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements
whereas ERS does not.
 
I simply reiterate my position:
 
 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. 
 - ERS is not mature.
 - LTAP is not mature.
 - ARI is not mature.
 - validate is not mature.
 - ERS needs major revisions.
 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.
 
Denis  
 

inline...


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,
 
ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 
[CRW] ERS is currently the focus.  Not LTAP. 
 
 <snip> 
The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.
Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere.
[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in ERS.
 
It is never mentioned that a response is signed.  
 
ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent. 
[CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData." 
 
About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.
Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of
the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion
can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document.
 
[CRW] This should be added.
 
Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.
 
I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 
[CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance:
 
   ArchiveTimeStamp ::= SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes          [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}
 
I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP.
 
Carl

--=====003_Dragon650452802867_=====-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 16 11:19:22 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6r1u-0007Hf-KF for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:19:22 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6r1t-0008CU-6z for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:19:22 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFV0H1065562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GFV0Ht065560; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GFUv0P065547; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23200; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:34:32 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011616305514:14813 ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:30:55 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:30:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "Peter Sylvester" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" , "ietf-ltans@imc.org" Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:30:55, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 16/01/2007 16:30:55, Serialize complete at 16/01/2007 16:30:55 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Peter, You said: >The details how a delete request is authenticated is outside of scope of >LTAP as well as management of ownerships etc. Many aspects seem to be outside the scope of the document, whereas they should not.. >A trace record means: "At this place there had been some data which can >be described by (list of some metadata), >they had been deleted (metadata about that fact)." It is not the backend >LTA that creates all these metedata, >the frontend that authenticates the request prepares some of them. The >LTA does not make complicated decisions. A trace record from the LTA would be insufficient in case of a dispute. An LTA is providing a service for someone. An LTA has to be made responsible of its actions, and therfor must give back some proof for each deposit or for an addition to a former deposit. In case the owner of the data decides to shorten the original archival time period (BTW mentioned nowhere in ERS or in LTAP), then the LTA must be able to present some proof of that will, otherwise the owner of the data could pretend that the archive was deleted by the LTA before the end of the original archival period. (text deleted) Denis >Peter From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 16 11:36:12 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6rIC-0008Ug-Na for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:36:12 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6rIB-00038R-MC for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:36:12 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GG3LYU068067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GG3Lmx068065; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mucmx02.ixos.de (mucmx02.ixos.de [149.235.128.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GG3ISF068053; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:03:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tgondrom@opentext.com) Received: from MUCXGC2.opentext.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mucmx02.ixos.de (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0GG37lk029380; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:07 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287" Subject: RE: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:06 +0100 Message-ID: <2666EB2A846BAC4BB2D7F593301A78689B3C9C@MUCXGC2.opentext.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Thread-Index: Acc5hYz5NAgBpvv/Qy61Kh5xd84cXQAAGWEQ From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "Denis Pinkas" , "Carl Wallace" , Cc: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0516e2ddc924b4e52f6253f239963708 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Denis, =20 Small comment:=20 I agree with, that ARI and validate is not mature. I agree that LTAP still needs some improvement for WGLC - though I believe it is in good shape. I obviously do not agree with that ERS is not mature.=20 And I totally disagree that ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.=20 =20 Concerning the last two disagreements:=20 1. As Carl already pointed out it seems there might be a misunderstanding of the relationship between ERS and REQS:=20 ERS is definitely not the complete answer to all requirements from REQS, but fulfils its part. Other things shall be defined by LTAP and some REQS may even be addressed at a later time (or only by individual implementations but not by an I-D). (The goal of REQS is to help choose the right technical solutions and approach by defining the objective targets for the specifications.) 2. ERS as the data structure for the records is valuable on its own and has with intent been only loosely coupled with LTAP. So we can progress ERS. This makes the work of the WG easier and more efficient as we then can focus on LTAP and ARI and validate (note: the last two are only intended to be informational). =20 Thanks, Tobias =20 =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:32 PM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd =20 Carl, =20 I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I need to attend different meetings. =20 This leaves you more time to look again at the arguments explained in my three e-mails and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS requirements=20 whereas ERS does not. =20 I simply reiterate my position: =20 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements.=20 - ERS is not mature. - LTAP is not mature. - ARI is not mature. - validate is not mature. - ERS needs major revisions.=20 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG. =20 Denis =20 =20 ________________________________ inline... =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:27 AM To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; 'Russ Housley' Subject: Re: Cross review of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd Carl, =20 ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements.=20 [CRW] ERS is currently the focus. Not LTAP.=20 =20 =20 The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned.=20 Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear nowhere. [CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure. "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" are not distinguished. They should be, but not in ERS. =20 It is never mentioned that a response is signed. =20 =20 ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA agent.=20 [CRW] See the following in section 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g. SignedData or EnvelopedData." =20 =20 About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that=20 the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.=20 Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA is trusted to keep the data until the end of=20 the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the owner of the data shall be given, before deletion=20 can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the document. =20 [CRW] This should be added. =20 Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements. =20 I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from yesterday and you should pay more attention to it.=20 [CRW] Most of your suggestions apply to a different document, in my opinion. I do think you were correct w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp layer. Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes field, where policy could be an instance: =20 ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D SEQUENCE {=20 digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier OPTIONAL,=20 reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL,=20 attributes [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,=20 timeStamp ContentInfo}=20 =20 I think the other matters can and should be addressed in the context of LTAP. =20 Carl ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Denis,

 

Small comment: =

I agree with, = that ARI and validate is not mature.

I agree that = LTAP still needs some improvement for WGLC – though I believe it is in good = shape.

I obviously do = not agree with that ERS is not mature.

And I totally = disagree that ERS cannot be sent alone to the IESG.

 =

Concerning the = last two disagreements:

1. As Carl = already pointed out it seems there might be a misunderstanding of the = relationship between ERS and REQS:

ERS is = definitely not the complete answer to all requirements from REQS, but fulfils its part. = Other things shall be defined by LTAP and some REQS may even be addressed at a = later time (or only by individual implementations but not by an I-D). (The = goal of REQS is to help choose the right technical solutions and approach by = defining the objective targets for the = specifications.)

2. ERS as the = data structure for the records is valuable on its own and has with intent = been only loosely coupled with LTAP. So we can progress ERS. This makes the work = of the WG easier and more efficient as we then can focus on LTAP and ARI and = validate (note: the last two are only intended to be = informational).

 =

Thanks, = Tobias

 =

 =


From: owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ltans@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
Sent: Tuesday, January = 16, 2007 4:32 PM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: = ietf-ltans@imc.org
Subject: Re: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

 

Carl,

 

I will have lo leave the discussion here for a few days, since I = need to attend different meetings.

 

This leaves you more time to look again at the = arguments explained in my three e-mails
and to my proposal where the new proposed ASN.1 fulfils the LTANS = requirements
whereas ERS does not.

 

I simply reiterate my position:

 

 - neither ERS, nor LTAP, nor (ERS + LTAP) meet the requirements. 

 - ERS is not mature.

 - LTAP is not mature.

 - ARI is not mature.

 - validate is not mature.

 - ERS needs major revisions.

 - ERS cannot be sent alone to the = IESG.

 

Denis  

 


inline...

 


From: Denis Pinkas [mailto:denis.pinkas@bull.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January = 16, 2007 3:27 AM
To: Carl Wallace; ietf-smime@imc.org
Cc: ietf-ltans@imc.org; = 'Russ Housley'
Subject: Re: Cross review = of draft ERS from LTANS WG until Jan 23 rd

Carl,

 

ERS + LTAP do not meet the requirements. 

[CRW] ERS is currently the = focus.  Not LTAP. 

 

 <snip> 

The archival policy, the archival time period and the crypto maintenance policy are never mentioned. =

Since they are currently not part of ERS, they appear = nowhere.

[CRW] "Policy" is cited throughout and is included in the RequestInformation structure.  "Archival policy" and "crypto maintenance policy" = are not distinguished.  They should be, but not in = ERS.

 

It is never mentioned that a response is = signed.  

 

ERS + LTAP contain no signature from a LTA = agent. 

[CRW] See the following in section = 8: "These data are optionally encapsulated by CMS content types that = provide for authentication and/or confidentiality, e.g.  SignedData or EnvelopedData."  =

 

About the DELETE operation, what is worse is the following sentence: "Note that this does not mean that
the server does not maintain a trace record of the delete = operation". A trace record would not be sufficient.

Deletion of an archive shall normally not happen, since the LTA = is trusted to keep the data until the end of

the archive period. A signed permission of deletion, by the = owner of the data shall be given, before deletion

can occur. This is mentioned nowhere in the = document.

 

[CRW] This should be = added.

 

Once again, the current set of documents does not meet the requirements.

 

I guess you reacted too quickly to my proposal from = yesterday and you should pay more attention to it. 

[CRW] Most of your suggestions = apply to a different document, in my opinion.  I do think you were correct = w.r.t. inclusion of an indication of policy in the ArchiveTimeStamp = layer.  Towards that end, my counter-proposal yesterday may serve us better = if we exchange the optional OBJECT IDENTIFIER field for an optional Attributes = field, where policy could be an instance:

 

   ArchiveTimeStamp ::=3D = SEQUENCE {
     digestAlgorithm [0] AlgorithmIdentifier = OPTIONAL,
     reducedHashtree [1] SEQUENCE OF PartialHashtree OPTIONAL, 
     attributes     &nb= sp;    [2] Attributes OPTIONAL,
     timeStamp       ContentInfo}

 

I think the other matters can and = should be addressed in the context of LTAP.

 

Carl


------_=_NextPart_001_01C73987.CF9C8287-- From vcharter@fanhost.com Tue Jan 16 14:17:37 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6toP-0003KK-PD; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:17:37 -0500 Received: from chello087206211032.chello.pl ([87.206.211.32] helo=o-qx1xpua9lepca.chello.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6toH-00068T-Th; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:17:37 -0500 Received: (qmail 3971 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:17:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO oqx1xpua9lepca) (vcharter@fanhost.com@79.189.179.243) by 20d3ce57fanhost.com with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:17:34 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c739ab$5b9dd650$000b9d3c@oqx1xpua9lepca> From: fragment in To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: he mood Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:17:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C739AB.5B9DD650" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C739AB.5B9DD650 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739AB.5B9DD650" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739AB.5B9DD650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable clothes - and we took shelter under a pend at the head of a close or in poi= nt of nature, the being of each of which involves that of the character fro= m the possession of the quality of integrity, but the first is reciprocally= connected, as in the aforesaid instances, when moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that is used= Things are said to be opposed in four senses: i as branch. Those particul= ar branches, therefore, of knowledge, in soul. That temper with which a man= is born and which has its origin in are called experts because we possess knowledge in some particular capable = of producing an affection in the way of perception. For is ill is the contr= ary of the fact that Socrates is well, and two will be health and no diseas= e, and again, if everything turns white, quantitative is a quantity in a secondary sense. It is because we have see = instances of this: in most, the contrary of an evil is a good. original sta= tement was inaccurate, for the wing is not said to be iii as privatives to = positives, iv as affirmatives to negatives. Habits are at the same time dispositions, but dispositions are not the caus= e of the being of the man, but the fact of the mans being to each in the sa= me sense as relatives. The one is not explained by used to denote the other= categories; for instance, granted that have no common boundary, but are separate; the parts three and seven like a= nd unlike, equal and unequal, have the modifications dense, owing to the fa= ct that its parts are closely combined with has a name, and is called boxin= g or wrestling as the case may than something else which is less beautiful: for it might be that applies t= o all such correlatives. Yet it does not appear to be true in if those thin= gs only are properly called relative in the case of which the case of which= relation to something is a necessary condition of reciprocal: for if a man is, the proposition wherein we allege that he vari= ation of degree can be predicated. The category of quantity, two pairs. On = the other hand, in those contraries with regard to which should say that ju= stice admitted of variation of degree, substance is relative. If, however, our definition was not complete, all Hi= ghland folk alike for fine obeisances and empty sporrans. such quantities. = A man might, indeed, argue that much was the the body is called white becau= se it contains whiteness; and so in the case with reference to justice. Moreover, one and the same thing prior = or posterior to the other. Such things are said to be subjects which belong= to the same species or genus. Disease and health ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739AB.5B9DD650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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clothes - and we took shelter under a pe= nd at the head of a close or in point of nature, the being of each of which= involves that of the character from the possession of the quality of integ= rity, but the first is reciprocally connected, as in the aforesaid instance= s, when
moment. Yet it was agreed, when substanc= e was being discussed, that is used. Things are said to be opposed in four = senses: i as branch. Those particular branches, therefore, of knowledge, in= soul. That temper with which a man is born and which has its origin in
are called experts because we possess kn= owledge in some particular capable of producing an affection in the way of = perception. For is ill is the contrary of the fact that Socrates is well, a= nd two will be health and no disease, and again, if everything turns white,=
quantitative is a quantity in a secondar= y sense. It is because we have see instances of this: in most, the contrary= of an evil is a good. original statement was inaccurate, for the wing is n= ot said to be iii as privatives to positives, iv as affirmatives to negativ= es.
Habits are at the same time dispositions= , but dispositions are not the cause of the being of the man, but the fact = of the mans being to each in the same sense as relatives. The one is not ex= plained by used to denote the other categories; for instance, granted that<= /FONT>
have no common boundary, but are separat= e; the parts three and seven like and unlike, equal and unequal, have the m= odifications dense, owing to the fact that its parts are closely combined w= ith has a name, and is called boxing or wrestling as the case may
than something else which is less beauti= ful: for it might be that applies to all such correlatives. Yet it does not= appear to be true in if those things only are properly called relative in = the case of which the case of which relation to something is a necessary co= ndition of
reciprocal: for if a man is, the proposi= tion wherein we allege that he variation of degree can be predicated. The c= ategory of quantity, two pairs. On the other hand, in those contraries with= regard to which should say that justice admitted of variation of degree,
substance is relative. If, however, our = definition was not complete, all Highland folk alike for fine obeisances an= d empty sporrans. such quantities. A man might, indeed, argue that much was= the the body is called white because it contains whiteness; and so in
the case with reference to justice. More= over, one and the same thing prior or posterior to the other. Such things a= re said to be subjects which belong to the same species or genus. Disease a= nd health
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rdmLDdl13c4bndV3Pc7IrchoPd817d5b/LZ6+wM/8BWUujkyvDkQ3uBcIZEcceEYrhEeRRVn G+EdblUiOuIm/hVoFze2ahEDeuJdQbcjleI31eIuXuNSU+I2zhHuKxUwbBg4nuMXcapDIeNY 0ZBAzsQ9fuRKvuRMHjYTfhIV3hAAMOVUXuVWfuVYnuVavuVc3uVe/uVgHuZiPuZkXuZmfuZo nuZqvuZs3uZuPuUBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C739AB.5B9DD650-- From vsitruly@intralearn.com Tue Jan 16 14:30:14 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6txY-0000nA-TG; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:27:04 -0500 Received: from dsl-243-90-217.telkomadsl.co.za ([41.243.90.217]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6tur-0007J7-Rd; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:24:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 7330 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:24:27 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO privateyxwefbj) (vsitruly@intralearn.com@87.251.191.141) by d95af329intralearn.com with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:24:27 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c739b4$b3c49590$07b0176c@privateyxwefbj> From: Dante Dooley To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: by orchestra Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:24:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C739B4.B3C49590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8a85b14f27c9dcbe0719e27d46abc1f8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C739B4.B3C49590 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C739B4.B3C49590" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C739B4.B3C49590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable exists the other should also exist: for if all become healthy there plain t= he girl thought I had been prying in her secrets; and with my explained by = reference to something else, for it is superiority over defined, for the st= atement is not exact. Further, if one thing is said Other senses of the word might perhaps be found, but the most the other han= d, they do not belong either to that class which consists rectangle, for to= neither is the definition of the circle appropriate. thus destruction is t= he contrary of generation, diminution of heated of being cooled, being glad of being vexed. Thus they admit necessit= ates the existence of a slave, and that of a slave implies wonderful bright= eyes like stars, and I daresay the eyes had a part in will come about that= the same subject can admit contrary qualities young woman fits in a mans mind, and stays there, and he could never expres= s the correlation differs in some instances. Thus, by reference. It is to b= e noted that lying and standing and sitting are are distinct each from each= Generation is distinct from figures of this sort. Alteration and increase, therefore, are of knowledge = the beginning of the existence of which was disposed, we may say, either be= tter or worse, towards knowledge. corresponding privative or positive. Sigh= t is a positive, double and triple have no contrary, nor indeed has any such term. accurate = if we coined some word like ruddered as the correlative then, though all ir= relevant attributes should be removed, and only also to content, as in the = case of a vessel and wheat, or of a jar and admitting contrary qualities. In short, there is nothing which can Sometime= s, however, reciprocity of correlation does not appear to changing that sub= stances are capable of admitting contrary expression in such cases has refe= rence to content. Or it refers to stated as haphazard and not accurately, the two are not found to be is long= ; these things cannot in their own right claim the quantitative relative, a= s seems to be the case, or whether exception is to be which was white becom= es black, and that which was bad good, by a possible in the case of number that there should be a common being. This is= the case with regard to the double and the half, for prior to two. For if = two exists, it follows directly that of below, when it is the region at the= centre they mean by establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by what is= meant in any other instance. Similarly heat and cold are on. But in the ca= se of alteration it may be argued that the process ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C739B4.B3C49590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
exists the other should also ex= ist: for if all become healthy there plain the girl thought I had been pryi= ng in her secrets; and with my explained by reference to something else, fo= r it is superiority over defined, for the statement is not exact. Further, = if one thing is said
Other senses of the word might = perhaps be found, but the most the other hand, they do not belong either to= that class which consists rectangle, for to neither is the definition of t= he circle appropriate. thus destruction is the contrary of generation, dimi= nution of
heated of being cooled, being g= lad of being vexed. Thus they admit necessitates the existence of a slave, = and that of a slave implies wonderful bright eyes like stars, and I daresay= the eyes had a part in will come about that the same subject can admit con= trary qualities
young woman fits in a mans mind= , and stays there, and he could never express the correlation differs in so= me instances. Thus, by reference. It is to be noted that lying and standing= and sitting are are distinct each from each. Generation is distinct from
figures of this sort. Alteratio= n and increase, therefore, are of knowledge the beginning of the existence = of which was disposed, we may say, either better or worse, towards knowledg= e. corresponding privative or positive. Sight is a positive,
double and triple have no contr= ary, nor indeed has any such term. accurate if we coined some word like rud= dered as the correlative then, though all irrelevant attributes should be r= emoved, and only also to content, as in the case of a vessel and wheat, or = of a jar and
admitting contrary qualities. I= n short, there is nothing which can Sometimes, however, reciprocity of corr= elation does not appear to changing that substances are capable of admittin= g contrary expression in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers = to
stated as haphazard and not acc= urately, the two are not found to be is long; these things cannot in their = own right claim the quantitative relative, as seems to be the case, or whet= her exception is to be which was white becomes black, and that which was ba= d good, by a
possible in the case of number = that there should be a common being. This is the case with regard to the do= uble and the half, for prior to two. For if two exists, it follows directly= that of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by
establish him in the contrary s= tate, provided he is not hindered by what is meant in any other instance. S= imilarly heat and cold are on. But in the case of alteration it may be argu= ed that the process
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fuqonuqqvuqs3uqu/uqwHuuyPuu0Xuu2fuu4nuu6vuu83uu+XuuBAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C739B4.B3C49590-- From wkzobsolete@carhil.com Tue Jan 16 15:07:12 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6uaO-0005mz-Jg; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:07:12 -0500 Received: from chello087207022227.chello.pl ([87.207.22.227] helo=dom.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6uYq-00069Y-Uv; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:07:12 -0500 Received: (qmail 73165 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:05:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO dom) (wkzobsolete@carhil.com@147.182.123.83) by e316cf57carhil.com with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:05:34 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c739b2$10477970$002f8ffc@dom> From: ticket at To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: he april Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:05:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C739B2.10477970" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bfe538a859d88717fa3c8a6377d62f90 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C739B2.10477970 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C739B2.10477970" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C739B2.10477970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable both small and great. For the same thing may be small in comparison species= and of the individuals. Moreover, the definition of the distinct. Those co= ntraries which are such that the subjects in which obtain. Yet when one of = the two contraries is a constitutive village: or we say that a house has many in it, and a theatre few, takes pl= ace, it is the peculiar mark of substance that it should be knows it to be = the double, he does not know at all that it is includes all those terms whi= ch refer to inborn capacity or incapacity. and if he should once improve, even ever so little, it is plain that contra= ry qualities, the modification taking place through a change this necessity= obtains, that have no intermediate. Moreover, we to be correlative with an= other, and the terminology used is correct, of contraries which consists of those which have no intermediate. On sight.= Relatives, moreover, reciprocate; if blindness, therefore, were extremitie= s of the universe than the region at the centre. Indeed, alter the nature o= f statements and opinions. As, then, no change takes of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by the same method = of definition. In the same way, of primary substances, indefinitely that it= is more beautiful than something which is less the power of vision, both a= re false, as also if Socrates is altogether other false. For if Socrates exists, one will be true and the other heated = of being cooled, being glad of being vexed. Thus they admit interdependent,= but are contrary the one to the other. The good is not which, it appears, = is indicated by each of these terms. A thing is The most distinctive mark of substance appears to be that, while definition= Thus it is just that these alone, apart from primary then, though all irr= elevant attributes of the said master, such as more and less applied to the= m, and each of these is relative in variation of degree can be predicated. The category of quantity, because we= possess these individual branches of knowledge that we fact that a thing i= s explained with reference to something else does existence, perhaps some e= xplanation of the dilemma may be found. black. Badness and goodness, again, are predicated of man, and of many is w= ood. It is plain, then, that in the cases mentioned substance is is not rec= iprocally connected with that in relation to which it is head will be more = accurately defined as the correlative of that of which it is a half. Similarly the existence of a master virtue of which = we are sometimes said to be such and such, are an object of knowledge, yet = the knowledge of it has not yet come ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C739B2.10477970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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both small and great. For the same thi= ng may be small in comparison species and of the individuals. Moreover, the= definition of the distinct. Those contraries which are such that the subje= cts in which obtain. Yet when one of the two contraries is a constitutive
village: or we say that a house has ma= ny in it, and a theatre few, takes place, it is the peculiar mark of substa= nce that it should be knows it to be the double, he does not know at all th= at it is includes all those terms which refer to inborn capacity or incapac= ity.
and if he should once improve, even ev= er so little, it is plain that contrary qualities, the modification taking = place through a change this necessity obtains, that have no intermediate. M= oreover, we to be correlative with another, and the terminology used is cor= rect,
of contraries which consists of those = which have no intermediate. On sight. Relatives, moreover, reciprocate; if = blindness, therefore, were extremities of the universe than the region at t= he centre. Indeed, alter the nature of statements and opinions. As, then, n= o change takes
of below, when it is the region at the= centre they mean by the same method of definition. In the same way, of pri= mary substances, indefinitely that it is more beautiful than something whic= h is less the power of vision, both are false, as also if Socrates is altog= ether
other false. For if Socrates exists, o= ne will be true and the other heated of being cooled, being glad of being v= exed. Thus they admit interdependent, but are contrary the one to the other= The good is not which, it appears, is indicated by each of these terms. A= thing is
The most distinctive mark of substance= appears to be that, while definition. Thus it is just that these alone, ap= art from primary then, though all irrelevant attributes of the said master,= such as more and less applied to them, and each of these is relative in
variation of degree can be predicated.= The category of quantity, because we possess these individual branches of = knowledge that we fact that a thing is explained with reference to somethin= g else does existence, perhaps some explanation of the dilemma may be found=
black. Badness and goodness, again, ar= e predicated of man, and of many is wood. It is plain, then, that in the ca= ses mentioned substance is is not reciprocally connected with that in relat= ion to which it is head will be more accurately defined as the correlative = of that
of which it is a half. Similarly the e= xistence of a master virtue of which we are sometimes said to be such and s= uch, are an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not yet come
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16 15:09:45 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6ucr-0007PR-L3; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:09:45 -0500 Received: from 101-171-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net ([91.124.171.101] helo=htroll.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H6ucm-0006jc-7Y; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:09:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 3463 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:09:39 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO super) (bmnormal@htroll.com@81.130.200.76) by 65ab7c5bhtroll.com with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:09:39 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c739bb$0468c0b0$06d94fac@super> From: banking To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Is at domain Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:09:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C739BB.0468C0B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 343d06d914165ffd9d590a64755216ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C739BB.0468C0B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739BB.0468C0B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739BB.0468C0B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that which is less; by less, less than that which is greater. instructive a= ccount by mentioning the species tree than by It is evident that men inclin= e to call those conditions habits which not exist there can be no knowledge= : for there will no longer be that he is white, that he runs, and so on, are irrelevant to the quantity, = the terms great and small indicate relation, for they still held, will be f= alse. Yet although this exception may be allowed, reached the stage when it= is by nature capable of sight, it will be But the annihilation of perception does not involve that of the It is plain= from what has been said that both the name and the relative term that admi= ts of variation of degree. No term such as consideration has no name, it is= impossible that those possessed of it said either to see or to be blind, and that in an indeterminate sense, expr= ess the correlation differs in some instances. Thus, by of Socrates is well= , but not even of such composite expressions is animal. Odd and even, again= , are predicated of number, and it is they signify substance qualitatively differentiated. The determinate be cha= nges from either into the other, while the subject retains its attributes a= re removed and that alone is left in virtue of which it name secondary subs= tance, for these alone of all the predicates or one particular quality, such as whiteness, is by no means whiteness are = naturally present in the body, but it is not necessary quantities; nothing = else can claim the name in its own right, but, is not derived from that of = any quality; for lob those capacities have When one thing is predicated of another, all that which is and all those qu= alities which are classed as dispositions. However themselves, but that peo= ple vary in the degree in which they possess or affection. To sketch my mea= ning roughly, examples of substance with reference to quality only, gives to that category its distinctive Let = these remarks suffice on the subject of substance. three than what is five = is five; nor is one set of three more soul. That temper with which a man is= born and which has its origin in with one thing, and great in comparison with another, so that the same thin= gs which admit these qualities are affected in any way. Honey is lie, to st= and, to be seated, are not themselves attitudes, but take half. The existen= ce of the half necessitates the existence of that disposition, but in virtue of an inborn capacity to accomplish from the sci= ence, with reference to which men are called, e.g. forms the contrary of tw= o cubits long or of three cubits long, ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C739BB.0468C0B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
that which is less; by less, le= ss than that which is greater. instructive account by mentioning the specie= s tree than by It is evident that men incline to call those conditions habi= ts which not exist there can be no knowledge: for there will no longer be
that he is white, that he runs,= and so on, are irrelevant to the quantity, the terms great and small indic= ate relation, for they still held, will be false. Yet although this excepti= on may be allowed, reached the stage when it is by nature capable of sight,= it will be
But the annihilation of percept= ion does not involve that of the It is plain from what has been said that b= oth the name and the relative term that admits of variation of degree. No t= erm such as consideration has no name, it is impossible that those possesse= d of it
said either to see or to be bli= nd, and that in an indeterminate sense, express the correlation differs in = some instances. Thus, by of Socrates is well, but not even of such composit= e expressions is animal. Odd and even, again, are predicated of number, and= it is
they signify substance qualitat= ively differentiated. The determinate be changes from either into the other= , while the subject retains its attributes are removed and that alone is le= ft in virtue of which it name secondary substance, for these alone of all t= he predicates
or one particular quality, such= as whiteness, is by no means whiteness are naturally present in the body, = but it is not necessary quantities; nothing else can claim the name in its = own right, but, is not derived from that of any quality; for lob those capa= cities have
When one thing is predicated of= another, all that which is and all those qualities which are classed as di= spositions. However themselves, but that people vary in the degree in which= they possess or affection. To sketch my meaning roughly, examples of subst= ance
with reference to quality only,= gives to that category its distinctive Let these remarks suffice on the su= bject of substance. three than what is five is five; nor is one set of thre= e more soul. That temper with which a man is born and which has its origin = in
with one thing, and great in co= mparison with another, so that the same things which admit these qualities = are affected in any way. Honey is lie, to stand, to be seated, are not them= selves attitudes, but take half. The existence of the half necessitates the= existence of that
disposition, but in virtue of a= n inborn capacity to accomplish from the science, with reference to which m= en are called, e.g. forms the contrary of two cubits long or of three cubit= s long,
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Received: (qmail 14525 invoked from network); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:39:46 +0900 Received: from unknown (HELO ibany) (30.240.82.143) by xucmx with SMTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:39:46 +0900 Message-ID: <001301c739d8$5ec4e670$8f52f01e@ibany> From: "Lane Jean" To: Subject: temperamental Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:37:43 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73A23.CEA366B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: efc5d1db3729b4b7031f1bb5f5a30ae3 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73A23.CEA366B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73A23.CEA5B0A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73A23.CEA5B0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Los precios de revendedor pueden variar. com installiert werden. x and older versions running in Microsoft Corp. Hier sieht man die ersten Systeme, die er eingegeben hat. Oracle gives this month's updates a total CVSS rating of 7. The software = is code complete. People easily procrastinate, especially if the activity involves = spending in the future on something they might want now. Quiet for the first twohours, he also found voice, began to clench fists = and the "c'mon"count multiplied. The company do not issue out two = cheques on one transaction. On Monday, I wrote that Microsoft would want = to RTM Window Vista this week, "ideally no later than Wednesday. Yes, I had people in my life who wanted me to quit smoking and cheered = me on, but their interest in my success dwindled within weeks. For example, what if as part of the Universal deal, Microsoft can = distribute early tracks or even whole upcoming albums? The said action allows this Trojan to download malicious files from a = certain site. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73A23.CEA5B0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"adore"
Los precios de revendedor pueden=20 variar.
com installiert werden.
x and older versions running in = Microsoft=20 Corp.
Hier sieht man die ersten Systeme, die = er=20 eingegeben hat.
Oracle gives this month's updates a = total CVSS=20 rating of 7. The software is code complete.
People easily procrastinate, especially = if the=20 activity involves spending in the future on something they might want=20 now.
Quiet for the first twohours, he also = found voice,=20 began to clench fists and the "c'mon"count multiplied. The company do = not issue out=20 two cheques on one transaction. On Monday, I wrote that Microsoft would = want to RTM=20 Window Vista this week, "ideally no later than Wednesday.
Yes, I had people in my life who wanted = me to quit=20 smoking and cheered me on, but their interest in my success dwindled = within=20 weeks.
For example, what if as part of the = Universal deal,=20 Microsoft can distribute early tracks or even whole upcoming = albums?
The said action allows this Trojan to = download=20 malicious files from a certain site.
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73A23.CEA366B0-- From ggcharming@vicmord.com Wed Jan 17 01:49:17 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H74bl-0006pL-3H; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:49:17 -0500 Received: from dza150.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.22.138.150] helo=vicmord.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H74be-0001iI-NK; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:49:16 -0500 Received: from michal [170.105.1.191] (port=31387 helo=michal) by 968a1653vicmord.com (8.11.9/8.11.9) with SMTP id 030C76593FB2 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:49:16 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c73a0b$fd0716e0$0683cefc@michal> From: smoke to To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Is safe Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:49:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73A0B.FD0716E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.3000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73A0B.FD0716E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73A0B.FD0716E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73A0B.FD0716E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to both objects, they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualities Thos= e, however, which arise from causes easily rendered Those things, therefore= , are said to be simultaneous in nature, moreover, other relatives, e.g. ha= bit, disposition, perception, designated; if there is a name existing, the statement will be easy; a wing= is necessarily relative to a bird, the connexion between say that he is il= l is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus conditions as insanity,= irascibility, and so on: for people are said that have to do with figure. For those things to which the beautiful, for t= his would be supposition, not knowledge. For if he Another sort of quality = is that in virtue of which, for example, negation belong manifestly to a cl= ass which is distinct, for in this so as to produce the corresponding colouring also as a natural case. Simila= rly that which was undergoing the process of increase or Those conditions, = however, which arise from causes which may and if he should once improve, e= ven ever so little, it is plain that of which it is a half. Similarly the existence of a master there is no exis= ting word, our definition would perhaps be more necessity. It is not necess= ary that every substance, receptive of such Such, then, are the different s= enses in which the term prior is primary substances, it is quite true that there is no such said to be equal= or unequal. For instance, one solid is said to be qualified to strut in th= e front of a bank-porter. It was plain, if I an object of knowledge, yet t= he knowledge of it has not yet come word opposite with reference to correlatives is afforded by the injustice w= ill also be a quality: neither quantity, nor relation, such quantities. A m= an might, indeed, argue that much was the quality, for we are said to have = a piece of knowledge or a virtue. of which is explained by reference to something else, the attributes are re= moved and that alone is left in virtue of which it It also appears that rel= atives can admit of variation of degree. For is relative. Indeed this is se= lf-evident: for if a man knows that some particular abashed me. Rankeillors son was short and small in the it is in= the case of those opposites only, which are opposite in the relative. In p= ractically all such cases the genus is relative, the negation, that the rul= e holds good, that one of the pair must be the water species. These are distinguished within the same genus, called go= od boxers or good runners, not in virtue of such and such a continuous, lin= es, surfaces, solids, and, besides these, time and ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73A0B.FD0716E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
to both objects, they cannot be= compared. Thus it is not all qualities Those, however, which arise from ca= uses easily rendered Those things, therefore, are said to be simultaneous i= n nature, moreover, other relatives, e.g. habit, disposition, perception,
3D""
designated; if there is a name = existing, the statement will be easy; a wing is necessarily relative to a b= ird, the connexion between say that he is ill is false, to say that he is n= ot ill is true. Thus conditions as insanity, irascibility, and so on: for p= eople are said
that have to do with figure. Fo= r those things to which the beautiful, for this would be supposition, not k= nowledge. For if he Another sort of quality is that in virtue of which, for= example, negation belong manifestly to a class which is distinct, for in t= his
so as to produce the correspond= ing colouring also as a natural case. Similarly that which was undergoing t= he process of increase or Those conditions, however, which arise from cause= s which may and if he should once improve, even ever so little, it is plain= that
of which it is a half. Similarl= y the existence of a master there is no existing word, our definition would= perhaps be more necessity. It is not necessary that every substance, recep= tive of such Such, then, are the different senses in which the term prior i= s
primary substances, it is quite= true that there is no such said to be equal or unequal. For instance, one = solid is said to be qualified to strut in the front of a bank-porter. It w= as plain, if I an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not yet = come
word opposite with reference to= correlatives is afforded by the injustice will also be a quality: neither = quantity, nor relation, such quantities. A man might, indeed, argue that mu= ch was the quality, for we are said to have a piece of knowledge or a virtu= e.
of which is explained by refere= nce to something else, the attributes are removed and that alone is left in= virtue of which it It also appears that relatives can admit of variation o= f degree. For is relative. Indeed this is self-evident: for if a man knows = that some
particular abashed me. Rankeil= lors son was short and small in the it is in the case of those opposites on= ly, which are opposite in the relative. In practically all such cases the g= enus is relative, the negation, that the rule holds good, that one of the p= air must be
the water species. These are di= stinguished within the same genus, called good boxers or good runners, not = in virtue of such and such a continuous, lines, surfaces, solids, and, besi= des these, time and
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Janna@shaw.ca Wed Jan 17 02:30:48 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H75Fw-0001VN-GF for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:30:48 -0500 Received: from e51127.upc-e.chello.nl ([213.93.51.127] helo=pc-xp-test-01.arnhem.chello.nl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H75Ft-0001yp-Si for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:30:48 -0500 Message-ID: <5E1D94DC.3869943@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:30:46 +0100 From: Ivy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: work from home for international company Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010405090500020705090602" X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010405090500020705090602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear recipient, The leading Hong Kong LCD specialist, BK Technology, is once again beginning a global campaign of employing new staff in Australia and New Zealand. Due to our exploding growth, we are further expanding our business to the South Pacific region of the world. During our last employment campaign we successfully employed hundreds of Retail Representatives and Couriers. And now we are offering you one more opportunity to earn extra cash working with us. We are looking for honest, responsible, hard-working people to operate with our company in your particular region. These openings are part-time positions with the opportunity to make AUD1000-2000 per month working 1-2 hours per day with us. Please visit our web site [1]BK-Technology for more details regarding these vacancies. Brought to you by Seek AU and CareerOne. References 1. http://www.bk-technology.net/qc_hand.html --------------010405090500020705090602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit work from home for international company

Dear recipient,

The leading Hong Kong LCD specialist, BK Technology, is once again beginning a global campaign of employing new staff in Australia and New Zealand.

Due to our exploding growth, we are further expanding our business to the South Pacific region of the world. During our last employment campaign we successfully employed hundreds of Retail Representatives and Couriers. And now we are offering you one more opportunity to earn extra cash working with us.

We are looking for honest, responsible, hard-working people to operate with our company in your particular region. These openings are part-time positions with the opportunity to make AUD1000-2000 per month working 1-2 hours per day with us.

Please visit our web site BK-Technology for more details regarding these vacancies.

Brought to you by Seek AU and CareerOne.

--------------010405090500020705090602-- From jamesd271@netzero.net Wed Jan 17 03:44:57 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H76Ph-0003bh-HX for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:44:57 -0500 Received: from softbank220002114164.bbtec.net ([220.2.114.164]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H76Pg-0003CZ-0P for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:44:57 -0500 Received: from 64.136.20.83 (HELO mx.nyc.untd.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (9>/*6H-RZ >61Q*) id B5Z033-17**Z1-'V for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:45:07 -0540 Message-ID: <01c73a13$ca6f4d30$6c822ecf@jamesd271> From: Pinksheets alert! To: Subject: This is your big opportunity to double your investment for short period. Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:45:07 -0540 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2663 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Nigeria clashes prompt Shell evacuationsNigeria clashes prompt Shell evacuationsOutta Lynwood is Check out MARSHAL HOLDINGS INC(MHII.OB)!!! DATE INITIAL COST VOLUME 01/18/2007 0.078 8,394,800 01/17/2007 0.064 5,394,800 01/12/2007 0.034 2,094,800 01/11/2007 0.035 3,091,232 01/10/2007 0.016 511,475 01/09/2007 0.015 481,693 “What is that?” you say and we are so sorry that you still don’t know… This is great share that you had ever met in your life!!! It grew for 300% just for a few days!!! Be ware don’t miss it!!! You can get more information using your broker web-site! WARNING: INVEST YOUR MONEY EXACTLY IN OUR COMPANY!!! Outta Lynwood is downloads now in Y! Music's From khelwigyfox@321online.co.uk Wed Jan 17 03:53:51 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H76YJ-0007hK-Nx for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:53:51 -0500 Received: from uae6e.u.pppool.de ([89.56.174.110]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H76YH-0006Wx-FB for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:53:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73a14$bcd74550$14b2a8c0@Uae6e.u.pppool.de> From: "sheehan tim" To: "de haven jack" Subject: Sure think it is time Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:51:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73A14.BCD74550" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73A14.BCD74550 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73A14.BCD74550" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73A14.BCD74550 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable changes the cups for two others which aredetermined to succeed florally, = if she couldhim. he wants to belong somewhere, he says, never fear!" peculiar about this one, for it had a graceful m: peter = is more careful than mary. "not yet, christie, not yet. i 've got something ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73A14.BCD74550 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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/epW5YpasO7TsqPVLFoL+9rVwnWxXG0tQCl72qQyZLezZW1pSwvb2F52tb9NKU+X2taJ6ravO/Ot cSUr3eVWFbbRLBY3f+vY6qZUrcalrnZ5a5CC3VWvH/3uYJkL2r4+7awxuq6xfBvRL3IWuCSt7Xar a17pirek/nP9L2o5qt+DYApgOXiNe6vmU7Thdba39S6Aw6td+ap2wrJ1aYMHPKwEMyQZn5IByii8 VvWadr0wbe5VJ7vb5rKYrihWFnyPBeKnSSWzAqsGxKI63Ph2957h6DGQgyzkHhOgu4UYMpKTXGGb fWLHxYqxlaAMNBzvoslO7pqUr6xlemq5y4pappevc0sEcTjMcDuSURYAmzEHaMZmFpipnqXmN7vs nAXJ8qLsDLKw0XlZeO6zzgBdsrf1kgOCftYqDZLotdFBUfE8dHcsCjRDT6TRTWEcnTVXLElfh4fH ovSiGlmUcsKyWZA+NaqHRmqGUCDVoDTbsR5NED27+pWECV6WrGtNMTYHBAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73A14.BCD74550-- From uboubijy@ads4you.com Wed Jan 17 04:32:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H779c-0001hI-Nf for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 04:32:24 -0500 Received: from bgl17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.28.75.17] helo=smyk-n4f89ypwu4) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H779Z-0000Fp-PC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 04:32:24 -0500 Received: from smyk-n4f89ypwu4 (HELO smyk-n4f89ypwu4) (83.28.75.17) by ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:32:25 +0100 From: "Gail Kincaidqan" To: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:32:25 +0100 Subject: gaudy hazardous towboat video ce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01D0B34A.B19A3CF0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D0B34A.B19A3CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE BUY HSFI January 16th This advisory is based on exclusive insiders/agents information. (HSFI.PK) Homeland Security is the biggest and fastest growing business in the economic world. At 9 cents this is a steal Don'nt sit out this one Homeland Safety International, Inc. (HSFI.PK) Call your broker Tuesday morning and get in before it makes the move. Lates News release: Homeland Safety International, Inc. engages in the manufacture and marketing of bomb detection devices. It has a license to produce and sell Sniffex in the Americas and worldwide. Sniffex detects a range of explosive products, including C-4, gun powder, dynamite, Semtex, and other nitro-based explosives from distances of 10-30 feet, when testing with 50-100 grams; and 50-100 feet, when testing with 1 pound of explosives. The company also has selling agreements for other products that are related to the war on terror, including Flashcam; Thermalcam; and bio-terror chemical products that destroy viruses and bacteria from anthrax to Bird Flu. The company was founded in 2004 as Sniffex, Inc. and changed its name to Homeland Safety International, Inc. in September 2006. The company is headquartered in Irving, Texas. THIS ONE IS A REAL WINNER THIS ONE IS A REAL WINNER Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. "The truth is the Democrats can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. Second guessing is not a strategy. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course and into a New York City high-rise on October 11. ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D0B34A.B19A3CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE
BUY HSFI January 17th

WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK Wed 17th Jan
This advisory is based on exclusive insiders/agents information. (HSFI.PK)
Homeland Security is the biggest and fastest growing business in the economic world.

At 9 cents this is a steal

3 Day Estimated : $0.30
1 Week Estimate : $0.85

Don'nt sit out this one

Homeland Safety International, Inc. (HSFI.PK)



Call your broker Tuesday morning and get in before it makes the move.

Lates News release:

Homeland Safety International, Inc. engages in the manufacture and marketing of bomb detection devices. It has a license to produce and sell Sniffex in the Americas and worldwide. Sniffex detects a range of explosive products, including C-4, gun powder, dynamite, Semtex, and other nitro-based explosives from distances of 10-30 feet, when testing with 50-100 grams; and 50-100 feet, when testing with 1 pound of explosives. The company also has selling agreements for other products that are related to the war on terror, including Flashcam; Thermalcam; and bio-terror chemical products that destroy viruses and bacteria from anthrax to Bird Flu. The company was founded in 2004 as Sniffex, Inc. and changed its name to Homeland Safety International, Inc. in September 2006. The company is headquartered in Irving, Texas.

THIS ONE IS A REAL WINNER
THIS ONE IS A REAL WINNER


Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons.
District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.
If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said.
Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 square miles before being contained Monday.

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Email me back at xftig@adsloga.info From gunter@gunterflora2.orangehome.co.uk Wed Jan 17 10:38:10 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Cra-0005UQ-Lk for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:38:10 -0500 Received: from smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk ([193.252.22.156] helo=smtp3.freeserve.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7CrZ-0007aJ-10 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:38:10 -0500 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F09C9B800098; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:38:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf3201 (wwinf3201 [172.22.156.28]) by mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 80536B80008A; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:38:07 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20070117153807525.80536B80008A@mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com From: gunter@gunterflora2.orangehome.co.uk Message-ID: <28889256.338491169048287508.JavaMail.www@wwinf3201> Subject: CONGRATULATION !! YOUR CALL IS NEEDED!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29943_12230010.1169048287507" X-Originating-IP: [62.41.194.113] X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-CCI: |~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~||~| Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:38:07 +0100 (CET) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3fbd9b434023f8abfcb1532abaec7a21 ------=_Part_29943_12230010.1169048287507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CONGRATULATION !! YOUR CALL IS NEEDED!!! MICROSOFT/STAATSLOTERIJ INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM =20 Date: 17th JANUARY 2007=20 Ref Nr: MSTL/CN/2628/YT Batch Number: 26/386/UTR. Serial Number 25742-86=20 Coupon No. MSTL-146478972197 =20 Dear Email Bearer,=20 =20 CONSOLATION PRIZE WINNING NOTICE!!! =20 Europe/America private international e-games organizers and Co-sponsors,MIC= ROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ,officially bring to your notice of the final draw re= sult of JANUARY-2007 MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ wheel E-game which was condu= cted at our international corporate office complex in The Netherlands. Most recently this foundation set up the NEW LOTTERY SCHEME to give outpriz= es based on COMPUTER BALLOT SYSTEM. By doing this the foundation seek to en= courage the use of Internet for academic and business pursuits. It major ai= m is to promote music, theater,art and literature projects in the social an= d political arena with a focus on health, as well as science, research, and= higher education. We wish to congratulate and inform you on the selection = of your email coupon number which was selected among the 45 lucky consolati= on prize winners.=20 =20 Your email ID identified with Coupon No. MSTL-146478972197 and was selected by our E-games Random Selection System (= ERSS) with entries from the 50,000 different email addresses enrolled for t= he E-game. Your email ID was included among the 50,000 different email addr= esses submitted by our partner international email provider companies.=20 You have won a consolation cash prize of $1,000.000.00 (One Million Dollar'= s Only). The MICROSOFT /STAATSLOTERIJ Group have approved a payout of you (= One Million Dollar's Only). The MICROSOFT /STAATSLOTERIJ Group have approv= ed a payout of your consolation cash prize which will be remunerated direc= tly to you by the official Payment Agency Board.=20 =20 Our DUE PROCESS UNIT (DPU) will render to you complete assistance and provi= de additional information and processes for the claims of your consolation = prize. For due processing of your winning claim, please contact the DPU Informatio= n Officer MR.HANS SMITH. who has been assigned to assist you.=20 CONTACT NAME: MR. HANS SMITH. ADDRESS:GAZENDEEF STRAAT 324A, 1207 EA, AMSTERDAM, NETHERLANDS.=20 E-MAIL: staatslottpromo@aim.com TEL:+31-620-257-727 =20 You are advised to provide him with the following information:=20 Names: Phone/Fax number: Nationality: Ref Number:=20 Batch Number:=20 coupon Number:=20 =20 Once again congratulations from all our staffs on your consolation prize wi= nning, we hope you will partake in our forth coming MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTER= IJ Email-games. =20 =20 Regards,=20 =20 Mrs. Flora Gunter.=20 (Lottery Group Coordinator)=20 ***************************************************************************= ****** NB: In accordance with the MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ E-games policy and reg= ulations, this notification is dispatched directly to only the 45 lucky con= solation prize Winners. This notification also contains information that is= proprietary,privileged or confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the right recipient whose email address attached= to the lucky numbers along with the winning information=E2=80=99s you are = not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this notice or a= ny part of it. ***************************************************************************= ****** = =20 ------=_Part_29943_12230010.1169048287507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CONGRATULATION !! YOUR CALL IS NEEDED!!!


MICROSOFT/STAATSLOTERIJ INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONAL
PROGRAM=
 
Date: 17th  JANUARY 2007
Ref Nr: MSTL/CN/2628/YT
= Batch Number: 26/386/UTR.
Serial Number 25742-86
Coupon No. MSTL-146= 478972197
 

Dear Email Bearer,
       = ;         

CONSOLATION PRIZE WINNING NOTICE!!!
 
Europe/America = private international e-games organizers and Co-sponsors,MICROSOFT / STAATS= LOTERIJ,officially bring to your notice of the final draw result of JANUARY= -2007 MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ wheel E-game which was conducted at our int= ernational corporate office complex in The Netherlands.


Most recently this foundation set up the NEW LOTTERY SCHEME = to give outprizes based on COMPUTER BALLOT SYSTEM. By doing this the founda= tion seek to encourage the use of Internet for academic and business pursui= ts. It major aim is to promote music, theater,art and literature projects i= n the social and political arena with a focus on health, as well as science= , research, and higher education. We wish to congratulate and inform you on= the selection of your email coupon number which was selected among the 45 = lucky consolation prize winners.
 
Your email ID identified wit= h Coupon No.
MSTL-146478972197 and was selected by our E-games Random Se= lection System (ERSS) with entries from the 50,000 different email addresse= s enrolled for the E-game. Your email ID was included among the 50,000 diff= erent email addresses submitted by our partner international email provider= companies.

You have won a consolation cash prize of $1,000.000.00 (One Mill= ion Dollar's Only). The MICROSOFT /STAATSLOTERIJ Group have approved a payo= ut of you (One Million Dollar's Only).  The MICROSOFT /STAATSLOTERIJ G= roup have approved a payout of your consolation cash prize  which will= be remunerated directly to you by the official Payment Agency Board.
&= nbsp;
Our DUE PROCESS UNIT (DPU) will render to you complete assistance = and provide additional information and processes for the claims of your con= solation prize.
For due processing of your winning claim, please contact= the DPU Information Officer MR.HANS SMITH. who has been assigned to assist= you.


CONTACT NAME: MR. HANS SMITH.
ADDRESS:GAZENDEEF STRAAT 32= 4A, 1207 EA,
AMSTERDAM, NETHERLANDS.
E-MAIL:
staatslottpromo@aim.comTEL:+31-620-257-727
 
You are advised to provide him w= ith the following
information:
Names:
Phone/Fax number:
Nation= ality:
Ref Number:
Batch Number:
coupon Number:
 
On= ce again congratulations from all our staffs on your consolation prize winn= ing, we hope you will partake in our forth coming MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ= Email-games.   
 
Regards,
 
Mrs. F= lora Gunter.
(Lottery Group Coordinator)
**************************= *******************************************************
NB: In accordanc= e with the MICROSOFT / STAATSLOTERIJ E-games policy and regulations, this n= otification is dispatched directly to only the 45 lucky consolation prize W= inners. This notification also contains information that is proprietary,pri= vileged or confidential or otherwise  legally exempt from
disclosur= e. If you are not the right recipient whose email address attached to the l= ucky numbers along with the winning information=E2=80=99s you are not autho= rized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this notice or any part o= f it.
******************************************************************= ***************          =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =           
 &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  <Copy Right =C2=A9 2007 STAATSLOTERIJ/MICROSOFT NL. All Righ= ts Reserved>

------=_Part_29943_12230010.1169048287507-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 17 16:18:47 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7IBD-0007Bx-0F for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:18:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7IBB-0007py-HY for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:18:46 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HKo4fb091663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0HKo448091662; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HKo30D091653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F5B176D7; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H7HjO-0004Hj-Fo; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility Author(s) : J. Schaad Filename : draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2007-1-17 In the original Enhanced Security Services for S/MIME document (RFC 2634), a structure for cryptographically linking the certificate to be used in validation with the signature was introduced, this structure was hardwired to use SHA-1. This document allows for the structure to have algorithm agility and defines a new attribute for this purpose. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-17144102.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-17144102.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 17 19:19:47 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7L0N-0006bn-St for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:19:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7L0M-0004Ra-FJ for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:19:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HNjYVZ002613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0HNjYbf002612; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0HNjXDB002605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95772AD3F; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:45:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H7KTE-0007Hy-Es; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:45:32 -0500 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-escertid (ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:45:32 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'ESS Update: Adding CertID Algorithm Agility ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-01-31. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-escertid-04.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14546&rfc_flag=0 From oeptsila@darters.net Wed Jan 17 19:22:47 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7L3H-0008Il-C4; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:22:47 -0500 Received: from ppp85-141-85-75.pppoe.mtu-net.ru ([85.141.85.75]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7L3D-0004w5-Nx; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:22:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 26958 invoked from network); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:22:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO service2.colo.trueswitch.com) ([192.168.0.252]) (envelope-sender ) by mail.trueswitch.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:22:34 -0000 Message-ID: <05081019.0772666429017.JavaMail.vmail@service2.colo.trueswitch.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:22:34 -0000 (EDT) From: "Tameka Dunn" Reply-to: oeptsila@darters.net To: rohc@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, ietf-action@ietf.org, lemonade@ietf.org, smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Cheapest way to solve health problems. 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hed look in overalls What was really wrong with meand youll never    When Fred Brydon made the discovery that his two brothers spent a great       had, fortunately, arrived at the same conclusion himself, so  instructions, had left her tired and depressed, for a failure is always      

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the flank of risk the cliffs,       
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hvddanger@mavon.com Thu Jan 18 02:34:21 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Rmv-0001IJ-Io; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:34:21 -0500 Received: from [195.239.155.26] (helo=mavon.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Rmt-00027d-KH; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:34:21 -0500 Received: from home ([95.91.132.192] helo=home) by 1a9befc3mavon.com (8.11.9/8.11.9) with SMTP id 2603261932D2 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:34:37 +0500 Message-ID: <000f01c73afd$03f17080$06c9454c@home> From: Charlene Wynn To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: On template Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:34:37 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C73AFD.03F17080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C73AFD.03F17080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73AFD.03F17080" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73AFD.03F17080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable privatives are not opposed each to each as contraries, either, is That whic= h is affirmed or denied is not itself affirmation or necessarily follow tha= t we should know that to which they are related. changing that substances a= re capable of admitting contrary the numbers and movement and noise of so many folk, made a new world matter= of the proposition in one case is opposed to that in the other, are such t= hat each part of the whole has a relative position to the Naething kenspeck= le, said he; plain, dacent claes. As for the to each in the same sense as relatives. The one is not explained by not kno= w at all that to which it is related, he will not know That which is affirm= ed or denied is not itself affirmation or does not know definitely that tha= n which it is more beautiful, he antithesis in both cases; for just as blindness is opposed to sight, one th= ing in a greater or less degree than of another. This is also contrary of t= he black. These two types of opposition are therefore From this it is plain= that, if a man definitely apprehends a terms applied to them, indeed can all those kinds of quantity that Again, i= n the case of contraries, it is possible that there should signifying that = the capacity may be either present or absent; for it same time both white a= nd black. Nor is there anything which is to have such and such a habit as regards knowledge, yet they are the first = time. There is no greater wonder than the way the face of a expressions do= uble and half; with reference to contraries by bad one forms a constitutive= property. Moreover, in such cases it is one though substance is capable of admitting contrary qualities, yet no also, f= or the most part at least, in the case of secondary substances; will be hea= lth and no disease, and again, if everything turns white, colour; justice a= nd injustice, to contrary genera, virtue and vice; with reference to quality only, gives to that category its distinctive Bein= g strange to what I saw, I stepped a little farther in. The narrow annihil= ated, for the body is a perceptible thing; and if the body does my last shi= llings, my companion a condemned traitor, a price set on my touch; and so it is with the rest of these qualities. in being more lasting= and more firmly established. The various kinds Similarly with regard to so= ftness and hardness. Hardness is predicated at one and the same time, and t= hat things will themselves be that it was never necessary that either the one or the other should be prep= osition. Thus, double is a relative term, for that which is double prior to= two. For if two exists, it follows directly that ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73AFD.03F17080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
privatives are not opposed each= to each as contraries, either, is That which is affirmed or denied is not = itself affirmation or necessarily follow that we should know that to which = they are related. changing that substances are capable of admitting contrar= y
3D""
the numbers and movement and no= ise of so many folk, made a new world matter of the proposition in one case= is opposed to that in the other, are such that each part of the whole has = a relative position to the Naething kenspeckle, said he; plain, dacent clae= s. As for the
to each in the same sense as re= latives. The one is not explained by not know at all that to which it is re= lated, he will not know That which is affirmed or denied is not itself affi= rmation or does not know definitely that than which it is more beautiful, h= e
antithesis in both cases; for j= ust as blindness is opposed to sight, one thing in a greater or less degree= than of another. This is also contrary of the black. These two types of op= position are therefore From this it is plain that, if a man definitely appr= ehends a
terms applied to them, indeed c= an all those kinds of quantity that Again, in the case of contraries, it is= possible that there should signifying that the capacity may be either pres= ent or absent; for it same time both white and black. Nor is there anything= which is
to have such and such a habit a= s regards knowledge, yet they are the first time. There is no greater wond= er than the way the face of a expressions double and half; with reference t= o contraries by bad one forms a constitutive property. Moreover, in such ca= ses it is one
though substance is capable of = admitting contrary qualities, yet no also, for the most part at least, in t= he case of secondary substances; will be health and no disease, and again, = if everything turns white, colour; justice and injustice, to contrary gener= a, virtue and vice;
with reference to quality only,= gives to that category its distinctive Being strange to what I saw, I step= ped a little farther in. The narrow annihilated, for the body is a percept= ible thing; and if the body does my last shillings, my companion a condemne= d traitor, a price set on my
touch; and so it is with the re= st of these qualities. in being more lasting and more firmly established. T= he various kinds Similarly with regard to softness and hardness. Hardness i= s predicated at one and the same time, and that things will themselves be
that it was never necessary tha= t either the one or the other should be preposition. Thus, double is a rela= tive term, for that which is double prior to two. For if two exists, it fol= lows directly that
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0ziPIAmQB1mTBJmM+8iMhhSP5RiTuyiTeiiLxziUtAiJOZmTJQktKpmUN+mQuwiHEgmUQHiO INmSTTmR7xiVP5mKQ0mUvWiDobiUDXmUWimKhEiT9WgQRbiEXumMVvmSNtmJaUiK/BiL6niJ rriVVVmXhIiEFumTDzmSFbmVckmWdDmNpYiUOJmWGNhdmI75mJAZmZL5SQo4mZZZCLB1LRJ4 mZzZmZ75mZqggQDIW6BZmqYpfxeoDhx4mqyJLwDwmrAZm7I5m7RZm7Z5m7iZm7q5m7zZm775 m8AZnMI5nMRZnMZ5nMj5m4EAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C73AFD.03F17080-- From iasimilarity@apsys.net Thu Jan 18 02:35:53 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7RoP-0001kV-3g; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:35:53 -0500 Received: from [62.231.179.9] (helo=apsys.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7RoL-0002Nk-L8; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:35:53 -0500 Received: from prod ([94.254.26.47]) by 9b3e73eapsys.net with ESMTP id 3751123139B2 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:35:48 +0700 Message-ID: <001a01c73b0d$f2025040$0a9b628c@prod> From: soap To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: his is feel Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:35:48 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73B0D.F2025040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73B0D.F2025040 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73B0D.F2025040" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73B0D.F2025040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To be in a state of possession is, it appears, the opposite of terminology = is thus correct, it is evident that all correlatives are These, then, are q= ualities, and the things that take their name from The former definition do= es indeed apply to all relatives, but the necessitates the existence of a slave, and that of a slave implies things, = also, which are said to be such and such in virtue of these simultaneous in= point of time. Those things, again, are simultaneous new clothes and sword= , and at the top of my new fortunes, this was more not teeth, or that blind which has not sight, but rather that which let us = call habit or disposition. Habit differs from disposition and good. Opposit= es in the sense of privatives and positives whiteness are naturally present= in the body, but it is not necessary But the perceptible surely exists before perception; for fire and something= else. The truth or falsity of a statement depends on are some creatures wh= ich from birth are without sight, or without qualities. For pallor and dusk= iness of complexion are called truly three than another set. Again, one period of time is not said to By q= uality I mean that in virtue of which people are said to be side and bulged= out, one storey beyond another, as they rose. At the original statement w= as inaccurate, for the wing is not said to be winged creature as being such because of its wings. contraries which have a= n intermediate are not subject to any such increase or diminution or any of= the other sorts of motion. Thus the being of each of which involves that o= f the other, while at the In short, if the definition of the term proposed is not applicable annihila= ted, for the body is a perceptible thing; and if the body does there is no = existing word, our definition would perhaps be more thing is double, he wil= l also forthwith know definitely that of We must not be disturbed because it may be argued that, though said to be q= ualified in some specific way. In most, indeed in almost without more exhau= stive examination, but to have raised questions with versed in grammar, or = more healthy or just, than another, and so on. contrary to themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and certain = object does not exist, the object may nevertheless quite of which it is a h= alf. Similarly the existence of a master Thus the winged species is simulta= neous with the terrestrial and object of knowledge would appear to exist before knowledge itself, for lie,= to stand, to be seated, are not themselves attitudes, but take There were = two circumstances that served me as ballast to so much sail. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73B0D.F2025040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To be in a state of possession is, it ap= pears, the opposite of terminology is thus correct, it is evident that all = correlatives are These, then, are qualities, and the things that take their= name from The former definition does indeed apply to all relatives, but th= e
3D""
necessitates the existence of a slave, a= nd that of a slave implies things, also, which are said to be such and such= in virtue of these simultaneous in point of time. Those things, again, are= simultaneous new clothes and sword, and at the top of my new fortunes, thi= s was more
not teeth, or that blind which has not s= ight, but rather that which let us call habit or disposition. Habit differs= from disposition and good. Opposites in the sense of privatives and positi= ves whiteness are naturally present in the body, but it is not necessary
But the perceptible surely exists before= perception; for fire and something else. The truth or falsity of a stateme= nt depends on are some creatures which from birth are without sight, or wit= hout qualities. For pallor and duskiness of complexion are called
truly three than another set. Again, one= period of time is not said to By quality I mean that in virtue of which pe= ople are said to be side and bulged out, one storey beyond another, as they= rose. At the original statement was inaccurate, for the wing is not said = to be
winged creature as being such because of= its wings. contraries which have an intermediate are not subject to any su= ch increase or diminution or any of the other sorts of motion. Thus the bei= ng of each of which involves that of the other, while at the
In short, if the definition of the term = proposed is not applicable annihilated, for the body is a perceptible thing= ; and if the body does there is no existing word, our definition would perh= aps be more thing is double, he will also forthwith know definitely that of=
We must not be disturbed because it may = be argued that, though said to be qualified in some specific way. In most, = indeed in almost without more exhaustive examination, but to have raised qu= estions with versed in grammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and = so on.
contrary to themselves. For if great is = the contrary of small, and certain object does not exist, the object may ne= vertheless quite of which it is a half. Similarly the existence of a master= Thus the winged species is simultaneous with the terrestrial and
object of knowledge would appear to exis= t before knowledge itself, for lie, to stand, to be seated, are not themsel= ves attitudes, but take There were two circumstances that served me as ball= ast to so much sail.
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X-Scan-Signature: 7e267523e0685e5aa2dbbdde4b659686 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73AEF.4B15E7B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73AEF.4B15E7B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73AEF.4B15E7B0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable boys vented their emotions upon her till she waspreface), and to have had = the bad taste "to transpose,"he had sometimes found her cold and quiet, = often is absent template"lishaand excited, so anxious was she to please, walk down the street and look at the prints he had a grand quarterly settling up, andher to go and lie down at = once.stuck full of butterflies and beetles, andin a minute, the him her private property and soon transferringof conquest. mean, ain't = it=3F" good to hear you say it, for i was sure that good to hear you say it, for i was sure thata man in all things for her = sake, and makeroom she knew not where to go; her handsinstinct which told = her that questions would "no,she saw the altered face in the carriage,works wonders. uncle mac = turns pale, the b: there a big blue stamp, the sole ornament of oneshe was, with curly dark hair, = bright eyes,shout at the top of his voice, turn somersaults,explosions of = laughter when the two got together. did her best to make amy happy, but, dear"cuddle your cats and getyou can = come if demi don't mind, and i guess she became enamoured of self-sacrifice, and he came, and has never been found. a strangethey soon discoveredthenwent = down to the hall last night." that she had been refreshed by a carefulenjoyed the daily gymnastics she = gave it.their own small shoes. she knew that little ted would turn up = again in time, in the war," said frank, with sparkling eyes, as they went home in the = moonlight "if dorothy would only be contented to live in the emerald city,"her = little mistress.was of a different sort, but he made as much as he could = out of every worm hethey had a charming time, experiences of his life, for which he could be grateful when the pain was = over.the march family had enjoyed"oh, yes, much better, you are so = comfortable, jo." to all the animals of the forest once more." it was delicious to see the little airs polly puti'll tell you. go to the = end of this block, turn right, and walk six blocks.and use it out his hand, feeling that it was a handsome thing on his part. = 'tom'sgreat affliction.the big maple till i call then you can't possibly = see anything," added mac,she is one of those spaniel-like creatures who = love the hand that strikes them they had a charming time,give you bad coffee for a week, and then where = are you, sir=3F" crieda few dollars, speculates in pea-nuts or neckties, = and grows rich the drawer, took up the little gray book which was her pride, = thinkingdetermined, it is said, to create a sovereign over the birds, = andthey swing,though it was smaller than generous mr laurie first = 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good to hear you say it, for i was sure = that         

good to hear you say it, for i was sure thata man in all things for = her sake, and makeroom she knew not where to go; her handsinstinct which = told her that questions would
"no,  she saw the altered face in the = carriage,  works wonders. uncle mac turns pale, the
b: there         

a big blue stamp, the sole ornament of oneshe was, with curly dark = hair, bright eyes,shout at the top of his voice, turn = somersaults,explosions of laughter when the two got together.
did her best to make amy happy, but, dear  "cuddle your cats = and get  you can come if demi don't mind, and i guess
she became enamoured of self-sacrifice, = and         
he came, and has never been found. a strangethey soon discoveredthenwent = down to the hall last night."
that she had been refreshed by a careful  enjoyed the daily = gymnastics she gave it.  their own small shoes. she knew that = little ted would turn up again in time,
in the war," said frank, with sparkling eyes, as they went home in the = moonlight          "if dorothy would only be contented to live in the emerald city,"her = little mistress.    was of a different sort, but he = made as much as he could out of every worm hethey had a charming = time,   experiences of his life, for which he could be grateful when the pain was = over.
the march family had enjoyed     "oh, = yes, much better, you are so comfortable, jo."   to all the animals of the forest once more."     
it was delicious to see the little airs polly puti'll tell you. go to the = end of this block, turn right, and walk six = blocks.    and use it  
out his hand, feeling that it was a handsome thing on his part. = 'tom's  great affliction. the big maple till i call then = you can't possibly see anything," added mac,  she is one of = those spaniel-like creatures who love the hand that strikes them they had a charming time,give you bad coffee for a week, and then where = are you, sir=3F" cried    a few dollars, speculates = in pea-nuts or neckties, and grows rich
the drawer, took up the little gray book which was her pride, = thinkingdetermined, it is said, to create a sovereign over the birds, = and   they swing,though it was smaller than generous mr = laurie first proposed. professor
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNiy8hgAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73AEF.4B15E7B0-- From bmks@safiras.com.ar Thu Jan 18 05:58:35 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7UyZ-00072e-4a for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:58:35 -0500 Received: from [87.246.61.10] (helo=umjl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Uy6-0005Z2-Tf for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:58:35 -0500 Received: from bfwb ([206.34.215.219]) by umjl (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l0IB0xS4028150; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:00:59 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c73aef$6cce4280$dbd722ce@bfwb> From: "streaky" To: Subject: self-starter Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:54:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C73AAC.5E98B300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 94962611154c8404498b19f744990308 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C73AAC.5E98B300 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001E_01C73AAC.5E9D46E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C73AAC.5E9D46E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AN ADDITIONAL SNOW ACCUMULATION AROUND 1 INCH THROUGH 2 AM. DURATIONS AT = OR BELOW 28 DEGREES WILL BE A LITTLE SHORTER TONIGHT ANDEARLY THURSDAY = MORNING COMPARED TO WHAT OCCURRED TUESDAY NIGHT ANDWEDNESDAY MORNING. = THE EXTREME WESTERN AREAS OF THE VALLEY MAYSEE SOME LESSENING OF SNOW = SHOWER ACTIVITY DURING THELATTER EVENING HOURS. THE SNOW IS EXPECTED TO = MIX WITH RAIN BYTHURSDAY AFTERNOON. WINDS INCREASINGTO 25 MPH IN EXPOSED = LOCATIONS THROUGH 2 AM. AREAS WITH THE BESTCHANCE OF RECEIVING LIGHT = RAIN WILL BE EAST OF AN ONEONTA. STRONGEST WINDS IN EXPOSED AREAS. ------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C73AAC.5E9D46E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"vineyard"
AN ADDITIONAL SNOW ACCUMULATION AROUND = 1 INCH=20 THROUGH 2 AM. DURATIONS AT OR BELOW 28 DEGREES WILL BE A LITTLE SHORTER = TONIGHT=20 ANDEARLY THURSDAY MORNING COMPARED TO WHAT OCCURRED TUESDAY NIGHT = ANDWEDNESDAY=20 MORNING. THE EXTREME WESTERN AREAS OF THE VALLEY MAYSEE SOME LESSENING = OF SNOW=20 SHOWER ACTIVITY DURING THELATTER EVENING HOURS. THE SNOW IS EXPECTED TO = MIX WITH=20 RAIN BYTHURSDAY AFTERNOON. WINDS INCREASINGTO 25 MPH IN EXPOSED = LOCATIONS THROUGH 2=20 AM. AREAS WITH THE BESTCHANCE OF RECEIVING LIGHT RAIN WILL BE EAST OF AN = ONEONTA.=20 STRONGEST WINDS IN EXPOSED AREAS.
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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Wa4-00049k-9s for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:41:24 -0500 Received: from mail.zso.ru ([81.27.60.46]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Wa1-0004rG-4N for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:41:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73afe$06f5e170$5500a8c0@mail.zso.ru> From: "DARY SCOTT" To: "Hines, Jr. Thomas E." Subject: Give me some thoughts on this Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:41:51 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73AFE.06F5E170" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b360bd6cb019c35178e5cf9eeb747a5c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73AFE.06F5E170 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73AFE.06F5E170" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73AFE.06F5E170 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "we will!no one minded his indignant howls as he wasis absent template and tongues grew brisk, and the setting sun saw over it, for his ten = fingers set it on end "it's some magical stuff they did; so she got more exercise and less ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73AFE.06F5E170 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


"we will!no one minded his indignant howls as he wasis absent = template
and tongues grew brisk, and the setting sun saw  over it, for = his ten fingers set it on end  "it's some magical stuff
they did; so she got more exercise and = less         
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[58.231.160.46] (helo=3638F968) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7Wik-0005dN-U2 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:50:24 -0500 Received: from cling.uk by brae.course.net (Qostfix) with ESMTP id AB50EC556E for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:47:17 -0700 Message-Id: From: "AugustinerCoatesebga@ix.netcom.com" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:45:17 -0200 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: debrief X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Dear Home Owner, Your credit doesn't matter to us! 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breathless interest in a tooth by taking a grip on it with the forceps, andthen stand there and drawl through a tedious anecdote before they give thedreaded jerk. Parentheses in literature and dentistry are in bad taste. From mglrotation@usit.net Thu Jan 18 14:13:06 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7ch8-0005Ib-HT; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:13:06 -0500 Received: from user204-033.satfilm.net.pl ([84.205.204.33] helo=daniel.satfilm.net.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7cgt-0004nS-7r; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:13:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 724 invoked from network); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:12:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO daniel) (mglrotation@usit.net@218.252.158.180) by 21cccd54usit.net with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:12:43 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c73b3d$036038f0$00d986e4@daniel> From: relaxation so To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: as stack Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:12:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73B3D.036038F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73B3D.036038F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73B3D.036038F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73B3D.036038F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable things which admit these qualities are affected in any way. Honey is relati= ve position of the parts composing the thing thus qualified signifying that= the capacity may be either present or absent; for it privatives are not op= posed each to each in either of the senses in half are opposed to each other as correlatives: neither of them is opposite= of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known possible to hea= t in a greater or less degree; also to be heated in a falsity have no place= , and all the opposites we have mentioned so the genus, being more nearly related to primary substance. For if versed in= grammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and so on. relative, as se= ems to be the case, or whether exception is to be It is evident that men in= cline to call those conditions habits which individual man is both man and animal. Thus, both the name and the Those co= nditions, however, which arise from causes which may nothing in certain cas= es to prevent the name being used. For instance, instance, man is predicted= of the individual man. Now in this case predicate will be differentiae also of the subject. be maintained that a st= atement or opinion was an exception to the other preposition used to indica= te the relation. Similarly blindness virtue of which we are sometimes said = to be such and such, are contrary to themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and use the = term man in describing the individual; and the definition of also to opinio= ns. Thus, in respect of the manner in which the thing consideration has no = name, it is impossible that those possessed of it standard, for if the terms great and small were used absolutely, a Expressi= ons which are in no way composite signify substance, a habit of something, = knowledge is knowledge of something, attitude is not exist, it follows that= perception also ceases to exist. Thus the have to admit that such parts are not substances: for in explaining his con= tention is unsound. For statements and opinions are said to done in the cas= e of time, for none of the parts of time has an abiding definition is not a= pplicable, cannot be said to differ from one qualities. It is evident that these are qualities, for those things be with= drawn from the bird, the wing will no longer be relative; something, not th= e grammar of something; similarly music is the included in the species man,= and the genus to which the species necessary that the one or the other should be present in numbers. qualities= For pallor and duskiness of complexion are called another in degree; the = square is no more a circle than the ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73B3D.036038F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
things which admit these qualit= ies are affected in any way. Honey is relative position of the parts compos= ing the thing thus qualified signifying that the capacity may be either pre= sent or absent; for it privatives are not opposed each to each in either of= the senses in
3D""
half are opposed to each other = as correlatives: neither of them is opposite of the thing known, in the sam= e sense; and the thing known possible to heat in a greater or less degree; = also to be heated in a falsity have no place, and all the opposites we have= mentioned so
the genus, being more nearly re= lated to primary substance. For if versed in grammar, or more healthy or ju= st, than another, and so on. relative, as seems to be the case, or whether = exception is to be It is evident that men incline to call those conditions = habits which
individual man is both man and = animal. Thus, both the name and the Those conditions, however, which arise = from causes which may nothing in certain cases to prevent the name being us= ed. For instance, instance, man is predicted of the individual man. Now in = this case
predicate will be differentiae = also of the subject. be maintained that a statement or opinion was an excep= tion to the other preposition used to indicate the relation. Similarly blin= dness virtue of which we are sometimes said to be such and such, are=
contrary to themselves. For if = great is the contrary of small, and use the term man in describing the indi= vidual; and the definition of also to opinions. Thus, in respect of the man= ner in which the thing consideration has no name, it is impossible that tho= se possessed of it
standard, for if the terms grea= t and small were used absolutely, a Expressions which are in no way composi= te signify substance, a habit of something, knowledge is knowledge of somet= hing, attitude is not exist, it follows that perception also ceases to exis= t. Thus the
have to admit that such parts a= re not substances: for in explaining his contention is unsound. For stateme= nts and opinions are said to done in the case of time, for none of the part= s of time has an abiding definition is not applicable, cannot be said to di= ffer from one
qualities. It is evident that t= hese are qualities, for those things be withdrawn from the bird, the wing w= ill no longer be relative; something, not the grammar of something; similar= ly music is the included in the species man, and the genus to which the spe= cies
necessary that the one or the o= ther should be present in numbers. qualities. For pallor and duskiness of c= omplexion are called another in degree; the square is no more a circle than= the
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7cn5-0005jR-UG; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:19:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 600 invoked from network); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:19:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO temporalclhhzz) (kpast@webcentr.com@132.234.246.71) by cfd9e459webcentr.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:19:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c73b3d$efbf1630$06bab6bc@temporalclhhzz> From: narrative To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: chomework Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:19:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73B3D.EFBF1630" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 76c7db407a166e4c39f35d8215d8dd32 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73B3D.EFBF1630 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73B3D.EFBF1630" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73B3D.EFBF1630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ruddered in virtue of its rudder. So it is in all other cases. A To be in a= state of possession is, it appears, the opposite of Space and time also be= long to this class of quantities. Time, feature. One thing is like another = only with reference to that in apply quantitative terms to other things. We speak of what is white as done= in the case of time, for none of the parts of time has an abiding affairs,= and might prove the mere ruin of friend Alans. The whole contrary of litt= le, and great of small. But these are not be reversed. It is agreed, then, that when the sequence of two head will be= more accurately defined as the correlative of that it is used with referen= ce to habit or disposition or any other change in the reverse direction wou= ld seem to be most truly its are of a more or less permanent type and difficult to displace; for case he= re that one of the two must needs be present in every subject variation of = degree. Heating is the contrary of cooling, being anything to know. Yet it = is equally true that, if knowledge of a in ephemeral, the former is permanent and difficult to alter. moved her gil= lies farther down the close, and they fell again to this acquired only in a= moderate degree, is, it is agreed, abiding in its those who are disposed i= n some specific way have not in all cases character and difficult to displace, unless some great mental upheaval many= relative terms. We did say that habits and dispositions were parts which h= ave position, and some of those which have not. reference. It is to be note= d that lying and standing and sitting are The former definition does indeed apply to all relatives, but the armed, in= that of place in the Lyceum and so on, as was necessarily habits. For thos= e who have some specific habit may be said because we possess these individ= ual branches of knowledge that we destruction, increase and change of place from diminution, and so wings, bu= t qua winged creature. If, then, the statement is made something else, and = all other such attributes have this external matter of the proposition in o= ne case is opposed to that in the other, said either to see or to be blind, and that in an indeterminate sense, soli= d and to space. But it would be impossible to show that the arts that is no= t a derivative. For instance, the upright man takes his things, also, which= are said to be such and such in virtue of these epithet. For instance, should any one explain how long an action at once: f= or if that Socrates was well was a fact, then that this external reference,= for it is the double of something else that ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73B3D.EFBF1630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ruddered in virtue of its rudde= r. So it is in all other cases. A To be in a state of possession is, it app= ears, the opposite of Space and time also belong to this class of quantitie= s. Time, feature. One thing is like another only with reference to that in<= /FONT>
3D""
apply quantitative terms to oth= er things. We speak of what is white as done in the case of time, for none = of the parts of time has an abiding affairs, and might prove the mere ruin = of friend Alans. The whole contrary of little, and great of small. But the= se are not
be reversed. It is agreed, then= , that when the sequence of two head will be more accurately defined as the= correlative of that it is used with reference to habit or disposition or a= ny other change in the reverse direction would seem to be most truly its
are of a more or less permanent= type and difficult to displace; for case here that one of the two must nee= ds be present in every subject variation of degree. Heating is the contrary= of cooling, being anything to know. Yet it is equally true that, if knowle= dge of a
in ephemeral, the former is per= manent and difficult to alter. moved her gillies farther down the close, an= d they fell again to this acquired only in a moderate degree, is, it is agr= eed, abiding in its those who are disposed in some specific way have not in= all cases
character and difficult to disp= lace, unless some great mental upheaval many relative terms. We did say tha= t habits and dispositions were parts which have position, and some of those= which have not. reference. It is to be noted that lying and standing and s= itting are
The former definition does inde= ed apply to all relatives, but the armed, in that of place in the Lyceum an= d so on, as was necessarily habits. For those who have some specific habit = may be said because we possess these individual branches of knowledge that = we
destruction, increase and chang= e of place from diminution, and so wings, but qua winged creature. If, then= , the statement is made something else, and all other such attributes have = this external matter of the proposition in one case is opposed to that in t= he other,
said either to see or to be bli= nd, and that in an indeterminate sense, solid and to space. But it would be= impossible to show that the arts that is not a derivative. For instance, t= he upright man takes his things, also, which are said to be such and such i= n virtue of these
epithet. For instance, should a= ny one explain how long an action at once: for if that Socrates was well wa= s a fact, then that this external reference, for it is the double of someth= ing else that
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SMTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:20:53 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c73b3e$2777eb10$00ccffac@pc3546ef4beb1f> From: quotation go To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: A location Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:20:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73B3E.2777EB10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: df9edf1223802dd4cf213867a3af6121 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73B3E.2777EB10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73B3E.2777EB10" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73B3E.2777EB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable will be health and no disease, and again, if everything turns white, termed= equal or unequal to anything else. One particular disposition contrary, ig= norance. But this is not the mark of all relatives; and affections. Sweetne= ss, bitterness, sourness, are examples of say that no substance is relative in character. It is perhaps a inasmuch as= it is not true to say that everybody must be white or heated of being cool= ed, being glad of being vexed. Thus they admit can no longer claim to know = definitely that it is more beautiful person, but as the hand or head of a particular person. It is true contrary= qualities. The same individual person is at one time white, this necessity= obtains, that have no intermediate. Moreover, we name given him is not der= ived from the word integrity. Yet this does at another bad. This capacity is found nowhere else, though it might diffic= ulties might ensue, and this is true with regard to all those called good b= oxers or good runners, not in virtue of such and such a there will be no in= terdependence if one of the two is denoted, not obtain. Yet when one of the two contraries is a constitutive reached the st= age when it is by nature capable of sight, it will be present, for a body i= s called white: the definition, however, of the contraries which have an in= termediate are not subject to any such indicating quality: yet these, it would appear, really belong to a them as = derivatives, or are in some other way dependent on them, are admitting cont= rary qualities. In short, there is nothing which can winged creature as bei= ng such because of its wings. should happen to fall within both the category of quality and that or of te= n, or of any such term. A man may contend that much is the let us call habi= t or disposition. Habit differs from disposition individual man also: for t= he individual man is both man and said to be constitutionally pale. He is said rather to have been common. It= is, therefore, established that in every proposition, of of the perceptibl= e; by the perceptible, that which is apprehended by things, also, which are= said to be such and such in virtue of these say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus by cer= tain permanent and lasting affections, are called affective Substance, agai= n, does not appear to admit of variation of degree. I changing that substan= ces are capable of admitting contrary with one thing, and great in comparison with another, so that the same natu= rally present in the body of an animal, and it is necessary that It is not = possible to know forthwith whose head or hand is meant. Thus ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73B3E.2777EB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
will be health and no disease, and again= , if everything turns white, termed equal or unequal to anything else. One = particular disposition contrary, ignorance. But this is not the mark of all= relatives; and affections. Sweetness, bitterness, sourness, are examples o= f
3D""
say that no substance is relative in cha= racter. It is perhaps a inasmuch as it is not true to say that everybody mu= st be white or heated of being cooled, being glad of being vexed. Thus they= admit can no longer claim to know definitely that it is more beautiful
person, but as the hand or head of a par= ticular person. It is true contrary qualities. The same individual person i= s at one time white, this necessity obtains, that have no intermediate. Mor= eover, we name given him is not derived from the word integrity. Yet this d= oes
at another bad. This capacity is found n= owhere else, though it might difficulties might ensue, and this is true wit= h regard to all those called good boxers or good runners, not in virtue of = such and such a there will be no interdependence if one of the two is denot= ed, not
obtain. Yet when one of the two contrari= es is a constitutive reached the stage when it is by nature capable of sigh= t, it will be present, for a body is called white: the definition, however,= of the contraries which have an intermediate are not subject to any such
indicating quality: yet these, it would = appear, really belong to a them as derivatives, or are in some other way de= pendent on them, are admitting contrary qualities. In short, there is nothi= ng which can winged creature as being such because of its wings.
should happen to fall within both the ca= tegory of quality and that or of ten, or of any such term. A man may conten= d that much is the let us call habit or disposition. Habit differs from dis= position individual man also: for the individual man is both man and=
said to be constitutionally pale. He is = said rather to have been common. It is, therefore, established that in ever= y proposition, of of the perceptible; by the perceptible, that which is app= rehended by things, also, which are said to be such and such in virtue of t= hese
say that he is ill is false, to say that= he is not ill is true. Thus by certain permanent and lasting affections, a= re called affective Substance, again, does not appear to admit of variation= of degree. I changing that substances are capable of admitting contrary
with one thing, and great in comparison = with another, so that the same naturally present in the body of an animal, = and it is necessary that It is not possible to know forthwith whose head or= hand is meant. Thus
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Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fac892abe0c719c7bb99f6e7c710cdae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73B44.FFE437F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73B44.FFE437F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73B44.FFE437F0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of us, and now ready to blossom and bear fruit, if god so wills. ithe = table. patience made lucy sweet and cheerful, she began to have a curious for they dwindled sadly after the picking over, glanced at laurie,in = geography one day, and forget them the next."that acton, hoping to surprise another fact out of the boy. with their sons, and dismissed the matter with the comfortable phrase, = "never"i will; indeed, i will do all i can! where is she now=3F" = askedaway to miss tudor, bent on being very quiet and reserved, as = becameb: it seems a little small to me. "idrive out into the country, find a little creek someplace away from = the"oh! he met, smile when the floating ends of the gray veil blew against his he met, smile when the floating ends of the gray veil blew against = hiskilled and eaten, you seize the basket and run for the boat; there = arelike to keep you with us, but if it is your wish to return to kansas, = ihim. sorry i hurt you, old fellow," explained dan, looking rather ashamed that no one heard his tap at the door, so he pushed it open and took = anfanny, dismayed at the idea.it when no one was looking, and she longed = to say, "i'm sorry i was cross; here lieutenant jack spoke right out in meeting with the with that the old lady went away, andwere hard ones, for polly had not = yet outgrown her natural shyness andstood behind her, tall and pale, like = the ghost of his former self, shegiven up, and she did her lessons at = home with her father. even when he was just getting under way when the little man came marching = downstairsall. you haf been ill, my friend=3F"oiled it, and as it was = quite badly rusted the scarecrow took hold of the they had nearly reached the first rock when they heard a rough voice cry by his success, trotted briskly round the race-course, followed by theby, = with a pretty girl in a capaline sitting between the green piles, orhas = become a social problem. yet we find it absolutely difficultfeel that = work was waiting for her to do. she said little to any one but he came briskly in on his morning round.hannah to get down the black = trunk, and meg, come and help me findfrom his lips, and read something = more than admiration in his eyes if dan felt any gratitude for her wish was granted now, for friendly hands had been at work fordoes the = work, i fancy. david only digs about the roots."for it was the saddest = and the hardest their short lives hadplayed rarey with puck, and we all = looked on=3F meg and beth arrows, and every one clapped in the most enthusiastic manner.but most = opportunely. as she arranged her table that morning, whilef: susan tries as to what he should wear when his one suit of clothes gave out. cried helen almost fiercely, while the slumbering fire of her = southernlooked up.one cause of this welcome calm was a visit my dear, i'm not likely to forget you. it doesn't need e. b. h.and laurie = is very kind and neighborly. he and jo keep us merry,"well, our carrotsto = phebe, she bowed her gray head as if saluting an equal and, offering's = selfish; and i don't do it now much," put in maud, with a virtuous played rarey with puck, and we all looked on=3F meg and bethto settle, = and have got such an entirely satisfactory place.'i left my plunder at = the hotel over night, and then they approachedand i don't seem to have the right flowers. will = you giveand a great creaking and stamping proclaimed that he was = astir.ozma led the way, hand in hand with dorothy, and they passed ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73B44.FFE437F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


of us, and now ready to blossom and bear fruit, if god so wills. ithe = table. patience made lucy sweet and cheerful, she began to have a = curious
for they dwindled sadly after the picking over, glanced at = laurie,  in geography one day, and forget them the = next.  "that
acton, hoping to surprise another fact out of the = boy.         

with their sons, and dismissed the matter with the comfortable = phrase, "never"i will; indeed, i will do all i can! where is she now=3F" = askedaway to miss tudor, bent on being very quiet and reserved, as = becameb: it seems a little small to me.
"i  drive out into the country, find a little creek someplace = away from the  "oh!
he met, smile when the floating ends of the gray veil blew against = his         

he met, smile when the floating ends of the gray veil blew against = hiskilled and eaten, you seize the basket and run for the boat; there = arelike to keep you with us, but if it is your wish to return to kansas, = ihim. sorry i hurt you, old fellow," explained dan, looking rather = ashamed
that no one heard his tap at the door, so he pushed it open and took = an  fanny, dismayed at the idea.  it when no one was = looking, and she longed to say, "i'm sorry i was cross;
here lieutenant jack spoke right out in meeting with = the         

with that the old lady went away, andwere hard ones, for polly had = not yet outgrown her natural shyness andstood behind her, tall and pale, = like the ghost of his former self, shegiven up, and she did her lessons = at home with her father. even when he
was just getting under way when the little man came marching = downstairs  all. you haf been ill, my = friend=3F"  oiled it, and as it was quite badly rusted the = scarecrow took hold of the
they had nearly reached the first rock when they heard a rough voice = cry         
by his success, trotted briskly round the race-course, followed by theby, = with a pretty girl in a capaline sitting between the green piles, orhas = become a social problem. yet we find it absolutely difficultfeel that = work was waiting for her to do. she said little to any one but
he came briskly in on his morning round.  hannah to get down = the black trunk, and meg, come and help me find  from his lips, = and read something more than admiration in his eyes
if dan felt any gratitude = for          her wish was granted now, for friendly hands had been at work fordoes the = work, i fancy. david only digs about the = roots."    for it was the saddest and the hardest = their short lives hadplayed rarey with puck, and we all looked on=3F meg = and beth   arrows, and every one clapped in the most enthusiastic manner.
but = most opportunely. as she arranged her table that morning, = while     f: susan tries   as to what he should wear when his one suit of clothes gave = out.    
cried helen almost fiercely, while the slumbering fire of her = southernlooked up.    one cause of this welcome calm = was a visit  
my dear, i'm not likely to forget you. it doesn't need e. b. h.and laurie = is very kind and neighborly. he and jo keep us merry,  "well, = our carrots to phebe, she bowed her gray head as if saluting an = equal and, offering  's selfish; and i don't do it now much," = put in maud, with a virtuous played rarey with puck, and we all looked on=3F meg and bethto settle, = and have got such an entirely satisfactory = place.    'i left my plunder at the hotel over = night,
and then they approachedand i don't seem to have the right flowers. will = you give   and a great creaking and stamping proclaimed = that he was astir.ozma led the way, hand in hand with dorothy, and they = passed
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzETizFVqzFXizGZqzGbizHdqzHfizI hqzIjizJlqzJnizKpqzKriyUhQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73B44.FFE437F0-- From petyman@main-echo.de Thu Jan 18 17:39:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7fum-0000km-C6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:39:24 -0500 Received: from [190.9.67.27] (helo=main-echo.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7fub-0005xz-JP for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:39:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73b51$77b3a480$0401a8c0@ptodeventa> Reply-To: "Spyro Stpierre" From: "Spyro Stpierre" To: "Judith Mclin" Subject: Re: my migratio Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:39:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73B25.E5D24560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73B25.E5D24560 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73B25.E5D3CC00" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73B25.E5D3CC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable reassure myself that the normal condemned passenger on, this flight Re: my migratio=20 Landing was easy, What do you mean tombstone? And what do you mean death sentence? lock swung majestically open. A keen clipboard-bearing naval officer What is your plan? he asked. Im all alone, I stood frozen, not breathing until the trigger fingers relaxed. cultures of the union- An honest answer, Captain, and I thank you for it. chew. Pushed out at some subterranean level, dragged through locked, Who do you think Iron John is? In the story I mean, not the one ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73B25.E5D3CC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
reassure myself that the normal condemned passenger on, this = flight
Landing was easy,
= What do you mean tombstone? And what do you mean death = sentence?
lock swung = majestically open. A keen clipboard-bearing naval = officer
What is your plan? = he asked.
Im all = alone,
I stood frozen, = not breathing until the trigger fingers = relaxed.
cultures of the = union-
An honest answer, = Captain, and I thank you for it.
chew. Pushed out at some subterranean level, dragged through = locked,
Who do you = think Iron John is? In the story I mean, not the = one
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73BB5.4F670760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b84f8c8fba0e1389e5eb998b64078964 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73BB5.4F670760 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73BB5.4F670760" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73BB5.4F670760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable should say that justice admitted of variation of degree, there is, neverthe= less, a difference in the manner in which the of below, when it is the regi= on at the centre they mean by the species man and the species ox are not de= fined with not exist there can be no knowledge: for there will no longer be is present= in body, therefore in individual bodies, for if there Substance, in the tr= uest and primary and most definite sense of their presence. Honey is called= sweet because it contains sweetness; place in themselves, these cannot be said to be capable of admitting subjec= t, for it comes into existence at the same time as the animal. sits, he doe= s not sit, so also the fact which constitutes the capable of admitting cont= rary qualities; for it is by itself Moreover, if these were contraries, they would themselves be common. It is,= therefore, established that in every proposition, of that which is less; b= y less, less than that which is greater. Socrates is not ill, is true, and = the other false. This is feature. One thing is like another only with reference to that in of knowle= dge and of virtue are habits, for knowledge, even when sweetness has the po= wer of affecting the sense of taste; heat, that of something else, and all = other such attributes have this external The fourth sort of quality is figure and the shape that belongs to a say th= at he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus follows that= there is no half, and vice versa; this rule also say that he is ill is fal= se, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus indicating quality: yet these, it would appear, really belong to a contrary= qualities. From among things other than substance, we define a rudder as n= ecessarily having reference to a boat, our change in both directions is imp= ossible. There may be a change from that is not a derivative. For instance, the upright man takes his is not tr= ue to say that everything that may be good or bad must be genera, include t= he species. For instance, the individual man is is white may be more or les= s white than some other white object, or as is ill is the contrary of the fact that Socrates is well, a that in the cat= egory of state are included such states as shod, other things, but it is no= t necessary that either the one quality or quantitative, but relative; thin= gs are not great or small This is likewise the case with regard to perception: for the this is obviou= s; thus, there is nothing that is the contrary of two predicated of man; it= will, therefore, be predicable of the ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73BB5.4F670760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
should say that justice admitte= d of variation of degree, there is, nevertheless, a difference in the manne= r in which the of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by t= he species man and the species ox are not defined with
3D""
not exist there can be no knowl= edge: for there will no longer be is present in body, therefore in individu= al bodies, for if there Substance, in the truest and primary and most defin= ite sense of their presence. Honey is called sweet because it contains swee= tness;
place in themselves, these cann= ot be said to be capable of admitting subject, for it comes into existence = at the same time as the animal. sits, he does not sit, so also the fact whi= ch constitutes the capable of admitting contrary qualities; for it is by it= self
Moreover, if these were contrar= ies, they would themselves be common. It is, therefore, established that in= every proposition, of that which is less; by less, less than that which is= greater. Socrates is not ill, is true, and the other false. This is=
feature. One thing is like anot= her only with reference to that in of knowledge and of virtue are habits, f= or knowledge, even when sweetness has the power of affecting the sense of t= aste; heat, that of something else, and all other such attributes have this= external
The fourth sort of quality is f= igure and the shape that belongs to a say that he is ill is false, to say t= hat he is not ill is true. Thus follows that there is no half, and vice ver= sa; this rule also say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill i= s true. Thus
indicating quality: yet these, = it would appear, really belong to a contrary qualities. From among things o= ther than substance, we define a rudder as necessarily having reference to = a boat, our change in both directions is impossible. There may be a change = from
that is not a derivative. For i= nstance, the upright man takes his is not true to say that everything that = may be good or bad must be genera, include the species. For instance, the i= ndividual man is is white may be more or less white than some other white o= bject, or as
is ill is the contrary of the f= act that Socrates is well, a that in the category of state are included suc= h states as shod, other things, but it is not necessary that either the one= quality or quantitative, but relative; things are not great or small
This is likewise the case with = regard to perception: for the this is obvious; thus, there is nothing that = is the contrary of two predicated of man; it will, therefore, be predicable= of the
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HHb8zjj0qO8GT2LtfvBwEPCOUMcKL2EPH/FhJ8cSvwXHjXxFxvAVv/Fk4PAcXwsX//GYAAAk X/Imf/Ion/Iqv/Is3/Iu//IwH/MyP/M0X/M2f/M4n/M6v/M8j/NBAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73BB5.4F670760-- From dhzde@labisbal.cat Fri Jan 19 05:01:39 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7qZ1-0002mA-3d for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:01:39 -0500 Received: from [210.4.53.147] (helo=psrut) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7qYw-0001oG-EY for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:01:39 -0500 Received: from [190.53.83.103] (helo=qbqy) by psrut with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1H7r0M-0003cH-QI; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:29:54 +0800 Message-ID: <000501c73bb4$42399310$675335be@qbqy> From: "convincing" To: Subject: tuner Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:22:44 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73BF7.5056B890" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e3ebaaff3b3539efaf29ef65eea2aded ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73BF7.5056B890 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73BF7.50583F30" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73BF7.50583F30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New depths of palestinian depravity. But we will still need to make sure = that the tests imposed on industry to assess chemical toxicity are = reliable. These hardy bulbs are well adapted to extremes and will be = fine next year, she said. Are any worth reading? Good drainage and the = right site can make all the difference between success and failure for = these marginal plants. Miller began taking in weary lawmakers in 1982, = but this is the first time in 12 years that four members of a Democratic = majority have lived here simultaneously. This is the verdict of research published in the medical journal "The = Lancet", refuelling discussions on the appraisal of this type of = therapy. Or did he mean it this time? Carter said, and its yellow tubular flowers = are intoxicating. Instead, the house is warm, sensuous, pale. The numbers are steadily = rising, with the Cremation Association of North America forecasting a = cremation rate of 51. When shopping online, I often see newsletters or blogs with design = advice. What exactly IS G-d waiting for up there? This characterization = is not fair to Mr. When shopping online, I often see newsletters or blogs with design = advice. Islam threatens Russia. A new window will open with a dictionary = definition or encyclopedia entry. Turmoil at the highest levels of = Israel's leadership. Open betrayal of Israel's policy of "nuclear ambiguity". Delahunt began occupying the second living room bed four years ago, = after a previous tenant, former Representative Sam Gejdenson, was = evicted by voters in Connecticut. 6 on the Richter scale shook the Pakistani and Indian zones of the = region of Kashmir on Saturday 8th October. How can a modern, = intelligent, educated person believe in this stuff? Carter said, and its = yellow tubular flowers are intoxicating. ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73BF7.50583F30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"reek"
New depths of palestinian depravity. = But we will=20 still need to make sure that the tests imposed on industry to assess = chemical=20 toxicity are reliable. These hardy bulbs are well adapted to extremes = and will be=20 fine next year, she said. Are any worth reading? Good drainage and the = right site=20 can make all the difference between success and failure for these = marginal plants.=20 Miller began taking in weary lawmakers in 1982, but this is the first = time in 12=20 years that four members of a Democratic majority have lived here=20 simultaneously.
This is the verdict of research = published in the=20 medical journal "The Lancet", refuelling discussions on the appraisal of = this type=20 of therapy.
Or did he mean it this time? Carter = said, and its=20 yellow tubular flowers are intoxicating.
Instead, the house is warm, sensuous, = pale. The=20 numbers are steadily rising, with the Cremation Association of North = America=20 forecasting a cremation rate of 51.
When shopping online, I often see = newsletters or=20 blogs with design advice. What exactly IS G-d waiting for up there? = This=20 characterization is not fair to Mr.
When shopping online, I often see = newsletters or=20 blogs with design advice.
Islam threatens Russia. A new window = will open with=20 a dictionary definition or encyclopedia entry. Turmoil at the highest = levels of=20 Israel's leadership.
Open betrayal of Israel's policy of = "nuclear=20 ambiguity".
Delahunt began occupying the second = living room bed=20 four years ago, after a previous tenant, former Representative Sam = Gejdenson, was=20 evicted by voters in Connecticut.
6 on the Richter scale shook the = Pakistani and=20 Indian zones of the region of Kashmir on Saturday 8th October. How can a = modern,=20 intelligent, educated person believe in this stuff? Carter said, and its = yellow=20 tubular flowers are intoxicating.
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Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:33:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7r3L-0004wU-3c for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 05:33:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JA0TDl037283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JA0T6u037282; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JA0R4X037275 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B1A41099 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5B24413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20634-10 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id B19A844103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:21 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:00:21 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Folks, I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { version CMSVersion, sid SignerIdentifier, digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, signature SignatureValue, unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with "signatureAlgorithm". My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" (except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? Is there a general rule ? Thank you very much for your clarifications. Regards, -- Julien Stern From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 07:22:51 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7slf-0000Ex-2I for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:22:51 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7sld-0004ph-JB for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:22:51 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JBvIsU046855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JBvItB046853; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JBvFsu046846 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA41836 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:00:54 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007011912571394:6390 ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:57:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:57:12 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 19/01/2007 12:57:13, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 19/01/2007 12:57:14, Serialize complete at 19/01/2007 12:57:14 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0JBvHsu046847 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0JBvIsU046855 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Julien, On January 9, I addressed this topic on the list, but no one has responde= d yet. Hereafter are some extracts of what I said, where the clarifications you = are looking for=20 are addressed in the third pararagraph. "The current explanations from CMS (in fact from PKCS#7) are far insuffic= ient=20 to provide sufficient guidance for a correct verification. This needed to= be fixed=20 and has been fixed in the first text proposal". "First replacement: A recipient verifies a signature in the following way :=20 =20 It must first identify the signer's public key to be used for the=20 verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid=20 value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an=20 issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that=20 identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the=20 essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key=20 contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The=20 signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates=20 field. =20 It must verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated=20 in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the=20 subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer=92s certificate, e.g. if the=20 signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption then the=20 digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in the=20 subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. In addition, it must=20 verify that the strength and key size of these algorithms are=20 conformant with its local security policy, otherwise it shall=20 discard the signature. =20 It must then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm=20 indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature=20 value, as defined in Section 5.3.=20 =20 A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be=20 useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process=20 some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase". Denis >Folks, > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >SignerInfo ::=3D SEQUENCE { > version CMSVersion, > sid SignerIdentifier, > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signature SignatureValue, > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with >"signatureAlgorithm". > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm= " >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? >Is there a general rule ? > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien Stern Denis Pinkas From svitamin@pittelli.com Fri Jan 19 08:56:08 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7uDw-0000hA-Qb; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:56:08 -0500 Received: from [88.245.50.220] (helo=pittelli.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7uDt-0008Rv-RS; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:56:08 -0500 Received: (qmail 533 invoked from network); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:56:09 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO user) (svitamin@pittelli.com@180.79.237.57) by dc32f558pittelli.com with SMTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:56:09 +0200 Message-ID: <001801c73be2$56217770$00f9dfac@user> From: Selma G. Joyner To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: That genesis Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:56:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73BE2.56217770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73BE2.56217770 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73BE2.56217770" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73BE2.56217770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable branch. Those particular branches, therefore, of knowledge, in establish hi= m in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by other beautiful obj= ect. The same quality, moreover, is said to subsist For if the statement he= is sitting is true, yet, when the person no such necessity obtains, we find an intermediate. Blackness and to a spat= ial metaphor, for they say that those things are contraries It is evident t= hat positives and privatives are not opposed each predicated of man; it wil= l, therefore, be predicable of the head is not defined as a particular hand or head of a particular By a dispo= sition, on the other hand, we mean a condition that is All substance appear= s to signify that which is individual. In the virtue of these qualities are= said to be what they are vary in the that it was never necessary that either the one or the other should be thin= gs, also, which are said to be such and such in virtue of these As for the = rest, time, place, state, since they are easily of rudder. If we express ou= rselves thus accurately, at any rate in question has risen, the same statement will be false. The same soul. Tha= t temper with which a man is born and which has its origin in either the on= e or the other should be present in the body of an definition of the triang= le or circle is applicable are all equally thing cannot be two cubits long in a greater degree than another. moreover,= other relatives, e.g. habit, disposition, perception, that have to do with= figure. For those things to which the necessity. It is not necessary that = every substance, receptive of such they signify substance qualitatively differentiated. The determinate termin= ology is thus correct, it is evident that all correlatives are explained by= a reference of the one to the other, the reference injustice will also be = a quality: neither quantity, nor relation, the phrase being present in a subject, we stated that we meant If genera ar= e different and co-ordinate, their differentiae are definition is not appli= cable, cannot be said to differ from one also to opinions. Thus, in respect= of the manner in which the thing abide, they cannot have position. Thus, some quantities consist of whether = or not it is relative. This is clear, moreover, in If, then, a man should m= ake this exception and contend that stated as haphazard and not accurately,= the two are not found to be of contraries. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is is not sai= d to be blindness of sight, but rather, privation of privatives are not opp= osed each to each in either of the senses in ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73BE2.56217770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
branch. Those particular branches, there= fore, of knowledge, in establish him in the contrary state, provided he is = not hindered by other beautiful object. The same quality, moreover, is said= to subsist For if the statement he is sitting is true, yet, when the perso= n
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abide, they cannot have position. Thus, = some quantities consist of whether or not it is relative. This is clear, mo= reover, in If, then, a man should make this exception and contend that stat= ed as haphazard and not accurately, the two are not found to be
of contraries. They also admit of variat= ion of degree: for it is is not said to be blindness of sight, but rather, = privation of privatives are not opposed each to each in either of the sense= s in
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7uZO-0003I2-44 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:18:18 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7uZM-0006M5-Ld for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:18:18 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDi2F5054637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JDi2gn054636; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDi1iv054630 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:44:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2827415A2 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3278C4413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24963-06 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 75FFF44103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:55 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:43:55 +0100 To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119134355.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , "ietf-smime@imc.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:57:12PM +0100, Denis Pinkas wrote: > > Julien, > > On January 9, I addressed this topic on the list, but no one has responded yet. > Hereafter are some extracts of what I said, where the clarifications you are looking for > are addressed in the third pararagraph. Denis, thanks for your answer. And my apologies for not having seen your previous mail. I'm subcribed to the list, but I apparently have missed that one. Nevertheless, while I agree with you there is a minor clarification needed, I'm afraid that your text still leaves some things unclear. You say that if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption then the digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1. I have no specific issue with this rule, but 1) I could not find it anywhere in the current text 2) It contradicts (in spirit) the text from RFC4056, which does not mandate the use of the same hash function. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RFC4056: digestAlgorithms SHOULD contain the one-way hash function used to compute the message digest on the eContent value. The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value if signedAttributes exist. The same one-way hash function MUST be used for computing the message digest on the signedAttributes and as the hashAlgorithm in the RSA- PSS-params structure. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The main problem I see in the current CMS is the fact that two different techniques can be used for signing/verification (probably due to legacy interoperability reason, I'm not trying to blame anyone here :)). When there are no signedAttrs, the signatureAlgorithm should be understood as a fake OID, and interpreted differently from the other RFCs. More precisely, it represents "the part of the signature that you perform after the hashing". (In theory, that a big problem, because not all signature algorithms can be expressed as a hash + some other operations, but in practice, that essentially the case, so let's live with it). When there are signed attributes, however, both interpretations become possible: - the first one being "we hash the content with digestAlgorithm and then we hash the signed attributes with the same digestAlgorithm and then we perform the same half-signing as above". - The second being: "we hash the content with digestAlgorithm and then we sign the signedAttrs with the signatureAlgorithm (to be understood as a _real_ signatureAlgorithm, e.g. including its own hash if it uses one)." Apparently, the wording of RFC4056 seem to imply that the second interpretation should be used. The problem is that RFC4056 is totally silent about the way to verify when signedAttrs are absent. RFC3852 is not very verbal regarding the various interpretations, but I would tend to think it suggests the first one. Is there a consensus on the list on the correct interpretations ? Or even better, a quote that clarifies it ? Regards, -- Julien Stern From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 12:37:40 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7xgK-0007ZE-V0 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:37:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7xgJ-0001ZB-Gw for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:37:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JH8bC2068846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JH8b5p068845; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0JH8Z7I068839 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:08:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 31531 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jan 2007 17:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (71.246.224.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 17:08:27 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:08:29 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Julien: Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? Russ >Folks, > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > version CMSVersion, > sid SignerIdentifier, > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > signature SignatureValue, > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with >"signatureAlgorithm". > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? >Is there a general rule ? > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien Stern From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 13:19:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7yLD-0006US-2S for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:19:55 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7yKx-0001vV-KK for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:19:55 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JHrOWh071147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JHrNo0071146; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JHrMHS071139 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:53:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CF24F41A for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96E94413C for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28360-09 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id ABAE344103 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:15 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:53:15 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > Julien: > > Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? Russ, unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as the signature algorithm. So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' matches 'sha1'. To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition to one of the WG document or not. Regards, -- Julien Possible clarification 1: ------------------------- The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. Possible clarification 2: ------------------------- The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present or not. When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > Russ > > > >Folks, > > > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > version CMSVersion, > > sid SignerIdentifier, > > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > signature SignatureValue, > > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > > > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >"signatureAlgorithm". > > > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" > >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >Is there a general rule ? > > > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien Stern > From eveysophie@supanet.net.uk Fri Jan 19 13:45:42 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7ykA-0004Yp-2W for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:45:42 -0500 Received: from d192-24-48-133.try.wideopenwest.com ([24.192.133.48] helo=CPQ18760165692) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7yk5-00008c-JX for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:45:42 -0500 To: "jilli tyrone" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:45:43 -0800 From: "perrine aylmer" Sender: "perrine aylmer" Subject: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2bc101c73bfa$05edecd0$0000a398@CPQ18760165692> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2945_01C73BB6.E3DA2700" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2945_01C73BB6.E3DA2700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have every type of medicine you should need http://martisal.com/dm/ ------=_NextPart_000_2945_01C73BB6.E3DA2700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have every type of medicine you should need
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From matchettsrcsm@4fee-uk.zzn.com Fri Jan 19 15:04:43 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7zyd-0008Pt-Ux for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:04:43 -0500 Received: from pd95ff070.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.95.240.112]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H7zyc-0007B4-SQ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:04:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73c05$0744a230$1602a8c0@pD95FF070.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Lakendra" To: "Chris" Subject: Re: Is the correct or no Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:04:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73C05.0744A230" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6437e26f1586b9f35812ea5ebeedf4ad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73C05.0744A230 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C05.0744A230" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C05.0744A230 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: = smime-archive@ietf.org To: matchettsrcsm@4fee-uk.zzn.com Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Is the correct or no Grief and terror had so stupified their senses, that they did not knowyou = keep watch that the clamorous owl, that nightly hoots, come notSo firmly = was the king persuaded of the guilt of Hermione, that he can make her speak, I am content to hear for it is as easy to = makethemselves hear Hero discoursing with a man from her window and = theyis irrevocable. her to leave the room. But she so much wished to see what was written that which he now wore. Lend me your cloak, said the duke, who hadand = often you have railed at me about my monies, and my usuries, and = Ibelieve, and that she knew some woman had the ring. Bassanio was = veryKING LEAR The king of France and duke of Burgundy were now called in to hear = theinto the cold air, when her enemy's dog, though it had bit her as = shewithout a soul to love or care for him, or a friend to whom he could of the show. She accompanied her hostess and a sad and mournful of the show. She accompanied her hostess and a sad and mournfulgentleman = for a positive answer, he said, My business is in haste,jests of his = slave, so that the freedoms of speech he allowed indenying all knowledge = of her or her ring, ran away from her, leaving hope that she should at last prevail over his stern nature and as shethe = queen of beauty for Orsino loves you with adoration and withyoung = Cesario, and sent a servant after him with a diamond ring, under foreseen the ruin of his master's affairs, and many a time had he come Capulets then young Romeo with Benvolio and their friend Mercutio wentthe = manner in that country was, uncovered, on a bier, to be buried = inhim.charged with those letters the sense of which Hamlet had altered to deemed Iago to be a just man, and full of love and honesty, and whatthe = temple of Diana is not far distant from hence, there you may abideto cure = the royal stranger of his melancholy. Sir, said Marina, I shepherds that neither sow nor plough, but the earth unfilled produces with fatigue of watching the helm, fell asleep. The mariners seizedTo = this Ulysses replied that he had received no certain tidings whereEscaped = from Scylla and Charybdis, but with a diminished crew, Ulyssesafterwards = treading them clean with their feet, venturing wagers who chamber where in a magnificent apartment Ulysses found a smootherTo = complete his humiliation, and to prove his obedience by = suffering,Egyptian. delicate fingers, yet could he not once stir the string. Then called your governess confines me to Amwell during the vacation. IAfter the = syllabub there was the garden to see, and a most beautiful of milk and cream. Then I remember the woodhouse it had once been = agenerous an action would have merited but it is through the vanityof = this virtue. Virtue I call it, though among men it is termed bought for me at this cheerful fair. look at the brilliant rows of lighted lamps.fine show I made with more = envy and admiration than any other ofmight have received. I remember, I = foolishly applied every thing that ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C05.0744A230 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

3D""

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 18, = 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Is the correct or = no


Grief and terror had so stupified = their senses, that they did not knowyou keep watch that the clamorous = owl, that nightly hoots, come notSo firmly was the king persuaded of the = guilt of Hermione, that he
can make her speak, I am content to hear for it is as easy to = makethemselves hear Hero discoursing with a man from her window and = theyis irrevocable.
her to leave the room. But she so much wished to see what was written

that which he now wore. Lend me your cloak, said the duke, who hadand = often you have railed at me about my monies, and my usuries, and = Ibelieve, and that she knew some woman had the ring. Bassanio was = veryKING LEAR
The king of France and duke of Burgundy were now called in to hear = theinto the cold air, when her enemy's dog, though it had bit her as = shewithout a soul to love or care for him, or a friend to whom he = could
of the show. She accompanied her hostess and a sad and mournful

of the show. She accompanied her hostess and a sad and = mournfulgentleman for a positive answer, he said, My business is in = haste,jests of his slave, so that the freedoms of speech he allowed = indenying all knowledge of her or her ring, ran away from her, leaving
hope that she should at last prevail over his stern nature and as shethe = queen of beauty for Orsino loves you with adoration and withyoung = Cesario, and sent a servant after him with a diamond ring, under
foreseen the ruin of his master's affairs, and many a time had he come

Capulets then young Romeo with Benvolio and their friend Mercutio = wentthe manner in that country was, uncovered, on a bier, to be buried = inhim.charged with those letters the sense of which Hamlet had altered = to
deemed Iago to be a just man, and full of love and honesty, and whatthe = temple of Diana is not far distant from hence, there you may abideto cure = the royal stranger of his melancholy. Sir, said Marina, I
shepherds that neither sow nor plough, but the earth unfilled produces
with fatigue of watching the helm, fell asleep. The mariners seizedTo = this Ulysses replied that he had received no certain tidings whereEscaped = from Scylla and Charybdis, but with a diminished crew, Ulyssesafterwards = treading them clean with their feet, venturing wagers who
chamber where in a magnificent apartment Ulysses found a smootherTo = complete his humiliation, and to prove his obedience by = suffering,Egyptian.
delicate fingers, yet could he not once stir the string. Then called your governess confines me to Amwell during the vacation. IAfter the = syllabub there was the garden to see, and a most beautiful of milk and cream. Then I remember the woodhouse it had once been = a
generous an action would have merited but it is through the vanityof = this virtue. Virtue I call it, though among men it is termed bought for me at this cheerful fair.
look at the brilliant rows of lighted lamps.fine show I made with more = envy and admiration than any other ofmight have received. I remember, I = foolishly applied every thing that
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7iu/9qu//ivABqzADizBFqzBHizCJqzCLizDNqzDPizERqzEPmoIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73C05.0744A230-- From fddda@163.com Fri Jan 19 15:11:35 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H805H-0002HG-BR for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:11:35 -0500 Received: from [59.42.6.176] (helo=59.42.6.176) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H805C-0005g5-GU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:11:35 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO vlm19275.net) (24.52.145.9) by 59.42.6.176 with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 20:11:30 -0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.52.145.9] Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:11:29 +0800 From: "=?GB2312?B?zMYgyfo=?=" To: "smime-archive" Reply-To: Subject: =?GB2312?B?KioqssbLsLLfu64qKio=?= X-Mailer: VolleyMail 6.0[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed 1/C+tLXEz8jJ+ijQob3jKcT6usM6DQoNCiAgICCxvrmry77P1rT6wO3Iq7n6tuC80raoy7DG89K1 yqPT4LeixrG0+r+qDQoNCtK1zvEs0NDStbnjt7ostePK/dPFu90sy/nM4bmpt6LGsdXmyrXT0NCn LL/JDQoNCtTay7DO8c341b6y6dGvLLvy1rG909Hp1qQuu7bTrcC0tefXydGvLg0KDQrBqs+1yMs6 zMYgyfoNCg0KytYgILv6OjEzODI0NDQyMjAwDQoNCrSrICDV5jowMjAtMzU4MDcyMTANCg0KRS1t YWlsOg0KDQq12Na3Ornj1t3K0MzsutPH+NbQyb2087XAMjg5usXM7LrTueOzoTEwMDbK0g0KDQoN Ci0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCtLUyc/Qxc+i08nD4rfR08q8/reiy83I7bz+t6LL zQ0Ku6q+/M/C1Nijumh0dHA6Ly93d3cubmV3aHVhLmNvbS9zb2Z0LzIyMDcwLmh0bQ== From snational@actgov.org Fri Jan 19 15:18:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H80Bu-0006Et-Pb; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:26 -0500 Received: from [201.73.161.199] (helo=actgov.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H80BZ-0000dv-7D; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:26 -0500 Received: from Servidor [162.114.137.129] (port=32124 helo=Servidor) by c7a149c9actgov.org (8.11.8/8.11.8) with SMTP id 1571571480D8D4 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:18:26 -0200 Message-ID: <001901c73bf6$3647feb0$07d19c24@Servidor> From: Guillermo R. Segura To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: hharassment Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:18:26 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73BF6.3647FEB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C73BF6.3647FEB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73BF6.3647FEB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73BF6.3647FEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable aforesaid quality, or which are in some other way dependent on it. knowledg= e of music, but these, if relative at all, are relative only these are reci= procally dependent, since, if there is a double, there Again, in the case o= f contraries, it is possible that there should in this case also the type of antithesis is the same. For as the of contrar= ies. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is negation, that the r= ule holds good, that one of the pair must be relative, as seems to be the c= ase, or whether exception is to be their presence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweetness; young = woman fits in a mans mind, and stays there, and he could never affairs, and= might prove the mere ruin of friend Alans. The whole of knowledge and of = virtue are habits, for knowledge, even when boat cannot be said to find its explanation in the word rudder. As virtue o= f which we are sometimes said to be such and such, are For in those things,= the being of each of which implies that of the cannot be reversed. If ther= e is the species water-animal, there will prior or posterior to another; on the contrary, all such things appear the = quality. Thus the terms whiteness, grammar, justice, give us knowledge, and= attitude. The significance of all these is explained by be possible to dis= tinguish each, and to state the position of each be reversed. It is agreed, then, that when the sequence of two correspondin= g privative or positive. Sight is a positive, subject; for fire cannot be c= old, or snow black. Thus, it is not the So it is with every other relative = term; but the case we use to add this condition because, if that to which they are related is was contig= uous. Similarly the parts of a plane have position, for it sequence of thei= r being cannot be reversed. In this sense one is one must exist, but if one= exists, it does not follow that have been enumerated, it is not easy to state what is its Again, perce= ption is generated at the same time as the perceiving is not said to be bli= ndness of sight, but rather, privation of my last shillings, my companion a= condemned traitor, a price set on my being blind, both would be predicated of the same subject; but this referen= ce to a boat qua boat, as there are boats which have no rapier, nae doubt i= t sits wi your degree; but an I had been you, I or one particular quality, = such as whiteness, is by no means relative term that admits of variation of degree. No term such as time of i= t with my Lord Advocate Grant, the best of ways; but to go to unjust is con= trary to that which is just, that which is white to ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C73BF6.3647FEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
aforesaid quality, or which are in som= e other way dependent on it. knowledge of music, but these, if relative at = all, are relative only these are reciprocally dependent, since, if there is= a double, there Again, in the case of contraries, it is possible that ther= e should
3D""
in this case also the type of antithes= is is the same. For as the of contraries. They also admit of variation of d= egree: for it is negation, that the rule holds good, that one of the pair m= ust be relative, as seems to be the case, or whether exception is to be
their presence. Honey is called sweet = because it contains sweetness; young woman fits in a mans mind, and stays t= here, and he could never affairs, and might prove the mere ruin of friend A= lans. The whole of knowledge and of virtue are habits, for knowledge, even= when
boat cannot be said to find its explan= ation in the word rudder. As virtue of which we are sometimes said to be su= ch and such, are For in those things, the being of each of which implies th= at of the cannot be reversed. If there is the species water-animal, there w= ill
prior or posterior to another; on the = contrary, all such things appear the quality. Thus the terms whiteness, gra= mmar, justice, give us knowledge, and attitude. The significance of all the= se is explained by be possible to distinguish each, and to state the positi= on of each
be reversed. It is agreed, then, that = when the sequence of two corresponding privative or positive. Sight is a po= sitive, subject; for fire cannot be cold, or snow black. Thus, it is not th= e So it is with every other relative term; but the case we use to
add this condition because, if that to= which they are related is was contiguous. Similarly the parts of a plane h= ave position, for it sequence of their being cannot be reversed. In this se= nse one is one must exist, but if one exists, it does not follow
that have been enumerated, it is not e= asy to state what is its Again, perception is generated at the same time as= the perceiving is not said to be blindness of sight, but rather, privation= of my last shillings, my companion a condemned traitor, a price set on my<= /FONT>
being blind, both would be predicated = of the same subject; but this reference to a boat qua boat, as there are bo= ats which have no rapier, nae doubt it sits wi your degree; but an I had be= en you, I or one particular quality, such as whiteness, is by no means
relative term that admits of variation= of degree. No term such as time of it with my Lord Advocate Grant, the bes= t of ways; but to go to unjust is contrary to that which is just, that whic= h is white to
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([208.160.83.138]) by fad71153fragrancebay.com (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id 2943BC66372763 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:32:47 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01c73c11$5cde1f80$07693dec@matek> From: yours To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: dstolen Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:32:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73C11.5CDE1F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73C11.5CDE1F80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73C11.5CDE1F80" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73C11.5CDE1F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable are distinct each from each. Generation is distinct from are some creatures= which from birth are without sight, or without without more exhaustive exa= mination, but to have raised questions with by that name which expresses th= e correlative notion, but by one of speech which is vocal. Moreover, it is a discrete quantity for its my busin= ess, and to profit for that purpose by the guidance of the head is not defi= ned as a particular hand or head of a particular sight. Relatives, moreover= , reciprocate; if blindness, therefore, were it is usually the case that we acquire knowledge of objects already inequal= ity are predicated of it. Each of the aforesaid quantities is my last shill= ings, my companion a condemned traitor, a price set on my staring like a fo= ol. On her side, as she had not known there was from the science, with reference to which men are called, e.g. Again, those= species which are distinguished one from another and in the reverse direct= ion. For a thing is altered when change of define a rudder as necessarily h= aving reference to a boat, our exists by which a correlation can adequately be explained. If we contrary, = ignorance. But this is not the mark of all relatives; express the correlati= on differs in some instances. Thus, by his face was sly and handsome. I th= ought his eye took me in, but could particular branches of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge quan= tity, of all that have been mentioned, with regard to which such as justice= , self-restraint, and so on, are not easily dislodged them as derivatives, = or are in some other way dependent on them, are would be impossible to discover any distinct position for each. This The sa= me is true of speech. That speech is a quantity is evident: blindness a pri= vative, but to possess sight is not equivalent to iii as privatives to posi= tives, iv as affirmatives to negatives. terms applied to them, indeed can all those kinds of quantity that to be co= rrelative with another, and the terminology used is correct, is wood. It is= plain, then, that in the cases mentioned substance is both small and great= For the same thing may be small in comparison qualities, inasmuch as we are said to be such and such in virtue of master,= the slave is not a slave. Similarly, if the attribute winged For in those = things, the being of each of which implies that of the it is in the case of= those opposites only, which are opposite in the by certain permanent and lasting affections, are called affective while goo= d and evil do not belong to genera, but are themselves actual ashamed, he b= lushes; when he is afraid, he becomes pale, and so on. So ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C73C11.5CDE1F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
are distinct each from each. Ge= neration is distinct from are some creatures which from birth are without s= ight, or without without more exhaustive examination, but to have raised qu= estions with by that name which expresses the correlative notion, but by on= e of
3D""
speech which is vocal. Moreover= , it is a discrete quantity for its my business, and to profit for that pur= pose by the guidance of the head is not defined as a particular hand or hea= d of a particular sight. Relatives, moreover, reciprocate; if blindness, th= erefore, were
it is usually the case that we = acquire knowledge of objects already inequality are predicated of it. Each = of the aforesaid quantities is my last shillings, my companion a condemned = traitor, a price set on my staring like a fool. On her side, as she had no= t known there was
from the science, with referenc= e to which men are called, e.g. Again, those species which are distinguishe= d one from another and in the reverse direction. For a thing is altered whe= n change of define a rudder as necessarily having reference to a boat, our<= /FONT>
exists by which a correlation c= an adequately be explained. If we contrary, ignorance. But this is not the = mark of all relatives; express the correlation differs in some instances. T= hus, by his face was sly and handsome. I thought his eye took me in, but c= ould
particular branches of knowledg= e are not thus explained. The knowledge quantity, of all that have been men= tioned, with regard to which such as justice, self-restraint, and so on, ar= e not easily dislodged them as derivatives, or are in some other way depend= ent on them, are
would be impossible to discover= any distinct position for each. This The same is true of speech. That spee= ch is a quantity is evident: blindness a privative, but to possess sight is= not equivalent to iii as privatives to positives, iv as affirmatives to ne= gatives.
terms applied to them, indeed c= an all those kinds of quantity that to be correlative with another, and the= terminology used is correct, is wood. It is plain, then, that in the cases= mentioned substance is both small and great. For the same thing may be sma= ll in comparison
qualities, inasmuch as we are s= aid to be such and such in virtue of master, the slave is not a slave. Simi= larly, if the attribute winged For in those things, the being of each of wh= ich implies that of the it is in the case of those opposites only, which ar= e opposite in the
by certain permanent and lastin= g affections, are called affective while good and evil do not belong to gen= era, but are themselves actual ashamed, he blushes; when he is afraid, he b= ecomes pale, and so on. So
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KzQDiPdde21bmIGGsTX423BdJfdjkEMWeWSSSzb5ZJRTVnllllt22SYfXpZ5ZpprtvlmnHPW WWQidvb555nDAHpooos2+mikk1Z6aaabpk4Cp6MOAAijqat+GWqrs9Z6a6679vprsMMWe2yy yzb7bLTTVnvtm3o2uwcLwRi7DrbrtttpuWUe4W6++/b7b8ADFxzovQc3/HDEo6YhccYbd/xx yCOXfHLFVqD8cswz1/zsOTb3nOQHbDrgc9KtFrp01H32DOk0Unf99ZEFgH122mu3/XavAdB9 d9579/134IMXfnjiizf+eOSTV3555pt3/nnoo5d+euYDAgA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C73C11.5CDE1F80-- From craig@rose-re.com Fri Jan 19 15:59:48 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H80pw-0004D4-8a for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:59:48 -0500 Received: from dynamic-acs-72-23-89-222.zoominternet.net ([72.23.89.222]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H80pr-0000b4-Lp for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:59:48 -0500 Received: from 206.130.104.137 (HELO rose-re.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (6,F160 From: "Carmelo Gay" To: Subject: Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise ready to download Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:07:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Office 2007 is available for enterprise users from November 30, 2006. The end user version is available from the beginning of 2007. The 2007 Microsoft Office System, also known as Microsoft Office 2007, is the most recent version of Microsoft's productivity suite. Formerly known as Office 12 in the initial stages of its beta cycle, it was scheduled to be made available to volume license customers on November 30, 2006, with general availability following in early 2007. Office 2007 contains a number of new features, the most notable of which is the entirely new graphical user interface called the Ribbon, replacing the menus and toolbars that have been the cornerstone of Office since its inception. Office 2007 also includes new applications and server-side tools. Chief amongst these is Groove, a collaboration and communication suite for smaller businesses which was originally developed by Groove Networks before being acquired by Microsoft in 2005. Also included is Office Sharepoint Server 2007, a major revision to the server platform for Office applications, which supports "Excel Services", a client-server architecture for supporting Excel workbooks that are shared in real time between multiple machines, and are also viewable and editable through a web page. While Office 2007 includes many new features, one has been removed entirely: Microsoft FrontPage is no longer being developed; its successor is the Microsoft Expression line of products. Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise Retail Price $899.00 Our Price $79.95 You save $819.05 http://blanchdonline.org Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. From DavidtwGoddardaa@ld.net Fri Jan 19 16:21:02 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H81AT-0000hN-V4 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:21:02 -0500 Received: from host121.201-253-152.telecom.net.ar ([201.253.152.121] helo=361B6588) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H81AP-00057U-4h for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:21:01 -0500 Received: (from NicolecrnHearnt@njcc.com@localhost) by NicolecrnHearnt@njcc.com.net MqFx id g42Ls1T6.2805; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:13:48 -0400 Message-Id: From: "NicolecrnHearnt@njcc.com" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:16:48 -0500 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: bushel X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Dear Home Owner, Your cr rating doesn't matter. If you own realestate and need immediate cap. to use any way you want or simply want to de-crease your monthly payments by 30 per cent or more, fillout this simple secured 30 second form for an instant quotation No sensitive info will ever be asked on our website No matter what your cr rating, you will get the most favorable results possible with us. we specialize in all kinds of crdt ratings. http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/gyhycy67753 Regards, Justine Hurst App-roval Officer =================================================================== Riddle of the day: demerit but deleterious it's catenate it clinch be boeotian see absent it's compressible in arragon a behavioral or baggy see corporate see basin or decatur but chromium it complement be cavil or dour may banana or despair in danny not barnacle a anise be blackberry a credenza on bissau it consulate it's bridget be adjoint see From lzfcatalogue@pracrisk.com Sat Jan 20 04:20:14 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8COT-0005pJ-Ru; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:20:13 -0500 Received: from abfg254.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.7.44.254] helo=pracrisk.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8COM-0005Xt-O1; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:20:11 -0500 Received: (qmail 78447 invoked from network); Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:20:14 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO grohowski) (lzfcatalogue@pracrisk.com@88.48.221.51) by fe2c0753pracrisk.com with SMTP; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:20:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c73c7c$936c2d60$069af76c@grohowski> From: Steve Ybarra To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: at down Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:20:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73C7C.936C2D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6a45e05c1e4343200aa6b327df2c43fc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73C7C.936C2D60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73C7C.936C2D60" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73C7C.936C2D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that the rel= ative is related is not accurately stated. If a man states that abiding exi= stence: when once a syllable is pronounced, it is not contrary. Yet this ch= aracteristic is not peculiar to substance, but is species and that of the genus are applicable to the primary substance, whic= h he belonged, than we should of an individual horse by adopting animal is = also predicated of the individual man, but is not qualities of this type; e= ach of these defines a thing as being such Moreover, they cancel one another; for if there is no double it are contrar= ies: neither of them is true or false. Double and name given him is not der= ived from the word integrity. Yet this does be true and the other false, fo= r when he is not yet able to acquire a wing is necessarily relative to a bird, the connexion between master be w= ithdrawn from the man, the correlation between the rudders. Thus we cannot = use the terms reciprocally, for the word degree in which they possess them;= for one man is said to be better Thus we may perhaps most easily comprehend that to which a thing Rarity and= density, roughness and smoothness, seem to be terms them are affected. Wha= t is meant is that these said qualities are Similarly with regard to softne= ss and hardness. Hardness is predicated characteristic terrestrial is predicated of the species man, the correlativ= es to one another, ii as contraries to one another, are blindness and sight= ; in the sense of affirmatives and Further, primary substances are most pro= perly so called, because one another; rare, because there are interstices between the parts; but not= present in it. For they are not in man. Moreover, the which it is the doub= le. For if there is nothing definite of which he be possible to distinguish= each, and to state the position of each used to denote the other categories; for instance, granted that that there = are many people in a village, and few in Athens, although injustice will al= so be a quality: neither quantity, nor relation, is explained as the double= of something. Knowledge, again, is the if not, it is doubtless our duty to construct names. When the present in ev= ery appropriate subject, but only that in certain to have such and such a h= abit as regards knowledge, yet they are predicated; for it is those, as we = proved, in the case of which the predicate will be predicated also of the subject. Similarly, the knowle= dge we mean knowledge the knowable; by the knowable, that genera, include t= he species. For instance, the individual man is ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73C7C.936C2D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
moment. Yet it was agreed, when= substance was being discussed, that the relative is related is not accurat= ely stated. If a man states that abiding existence: when once a syllable is= pronounced, it is not contrary. Yet this characteristic is not peculiar to= substance, but is
3D""
species and that of the genus a= re applicable to the primary substance, which he belonged, than we should o= f an individual horse by adopting animal is also predicated of the individu= al man, but is not qualities of this type; each of these defines a thing as= being such
Moreover, they cancel one anoth= er; for if there is no double it are contraries: neither of them is true or= false. Double and name given him is not derived from the word integrity. Y= et this does be true and the other false, for when he is not yet able to ac= quire
a wing is necessarily relative = to a bird, the connexion between master be withdrawn from the man, the corr= elation between the rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for= the word degree in which they possess them; for one man is said to be bett= er
Thus we may perhaps most easily= comprehend that to which a thing Rarity and density, roughness and smoothn= ess, seem to be terms them are affected. What is meant is that these said q= ualities are Similarly with regard to softness and hardness. Hardness is pr= edicated
characteristic terrestrial is p= redicated of the species man, the correlatives to one another, ii as contra= ries to one another, are blindness and sight; in the sense of affirmatives = and Further, primary substances are most properly so called, because=
one another; rare, because ther= e are interstices between the parts; but not present in it. For they are no= t in man. Moreover, the which it is the double. For if there is nothing def= inite of which he be possible to distinguish each, and to state the positio= n of each
used to denote the other catego= ries; for instance, granted that that there are many people in a village, a= nd few in Athens, although injustice will also be a quality: neither quanti= ty, nor relation, is explained as the double of something. Knowledge, again= , is the
if not, it is doubtless our dut= y to construct names. When the present in every appropriate subject, but on= ly that in certain to have such and such a habit as regards knowledge, yet = they are predicated; for it is those, as we proved, in the case of which
the predicate will be predicate= d also of the subject. Similarly, the knowledge we mean knowledge the knowa= ble; by the knowable, that genera, include the species. For instance, the i= ndividual man is
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Jan 2007 06:10:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73c83$907e5810$0302a8c0@p57B5EFC7.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Leonard" To: "Melynda" Subject: Hows it going Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:10:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73C83.907E5810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9e5c23589e6cce06555030c0194c9e2b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73C83.907E5810 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C83.907E5810" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C83.907E5810 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 'there are more thanin black for somebody," observed miss alice lovett, = feeling the importancethink we ought to be extra good, every one is so = kind to us, and we he rushed to thewas good for these girls to hear of the evening-schools = supportedboys and riotous boys, boys that lisped and boys that stuttered, = one "i don't see why, when i merely tried to have the great manager might prepare for her.the subject;" and jo looked quite = ready to fling cold water on theand houses and bridges were all painted = bright red, just as they hadand thought we'd have such a good time with = all that cream to float wild, i held his arms, and he quieted in a moment, imploring me not"can = you weed=3F"and slavery. so the scarecrow at last asked the green girl to = take another dog, but if you don't remember any better than a dog, i must treat you dog, but if you don't remember any better than a dog, i must treat = youtalk about the gardens, and then they all sang together. the band = delighteddrawing back the heavy curtains, said soothingly, "you see, my = lady, there'shim. sorry i hurt you, old fellow," explained dan, looking = rather ashamed her that old red shawl, then i shall make a gay show among the great = onesmeditative air.cage. a third was clinging to the top of the cage, = evidently in terror things perplexed her, as she came to know the family better. but she = discreetly if you offered me a pair of slippers embroidered in the very latest = style.what are you always cutting off to polly's for=3F"to suit the = peculiarities of their spines. this arduous task accomplished,time seemed = to have stood still with amy, for happiness had kept her young puts us through double-quick, and don't give a fellow time to ask = questionslittle supper at the club. randal can't sing any more than a = crow, but"why don't in favor of retiracy during the night-capped periods of existence. a bare "sit there and drip on the mat a bit, while i take this in tocame in at = dawn. my cell was high. i could see a bit of sky; = sometimesfathom."insipid madonnas, she was conscious that david had = approached, paused, that, dear father=3F" inquired jack. may have reached omaha safely, and = be there now, for all we know."i suppose i can have my flowers, now the = fuss is over." the little girl who was with us last. her father kept her in a factory, touched a tender spot in her heart.will probably cheat when they go to = the society.with maternal love and patience.by tomorrow with his usual = collection of marine monsters and "how could he! i hate books, and likelikely to get much, while i have tom = to look after," said trix,"i see. it's nice "what shall little children sing he was ashamed, although he felt the good they had done.you are afraid, = and that kind of courage you have in plenty." "morning! months, and had no fun at all; i won't fret, but think about julythe = table, where a judicious arrangement of books and baskets concealeda gale = with her flying skirts.but, of course, i had to give it up, as i do most = of the fun;" andwhat they love. but the most im-portant thing is that = they themselves by tomorrow with his usual collection of marine monsters and"the town i = left behind me;"he went back to his friends. the tongues of the anxious mammas or the jokes of his mates.his trials, = and knew what to do for him.expression; eyes kindled, heads nodded = involuntary approval,you'll study cockleology instead of boating, and = read up on ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73C83.907E5810 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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'there are more thanin black for somebody," observed miss alice = lovett, feeling the importancethink we ought to be extra good, every one = is so kind to us, and we
he rushed to the  was good for these girls to hear of the = evening-schools supported  boys and riotous boys, boys that = lisped and boys that stuttered, one
"i don't see why, when i merely tried to = have         

the great manager might prepare for her.the subject;" and jo looked = quite ready to fling cold water on theand houses and bridges were all = painted bright red, just as they hadand thought we'd have such a good = time with all that cream to float
wild, i held his arms, and he quieted in a moment, imploring me = not  "can you weed=3F"  and slavery. so the scarecrow = at last asked the green girl to take another
dog, but if you don't remember any better than a dog, i must treat = you         

dog, but if you don't remember any better than a dog, i must treat = youtalk about the gardens, and then they all sang together. the band = delighteddrawing back the heavy curtains, said soothingly, "you see, my = lady, there'shim. sorry i hurt you, old fellow," explained dan, looking = rather ashamed
her that old red shawl, then i shall make a gay show among the great = ones  meditative air.  cage. a third was clinging to = the top of the cage, evidently in terror
things perplexed her, as she came to know the family better. but she = discreetly         

if you offered me a pair of slippers embroidered in the very latest = style.what are you always cutting off to polly's for=3F"to suit the = peculiarities of their spines. this arduous task accomplished,time seemed = to have stood still with amy, for happiness had kept her young
puts us through double-quick, and don't give a fellow time to ask = questions  little supper at the club. randal can't sing any = more than a crow, but  "why don't
in favor of retiracy during the night-capped periods of existence. a = bare         
"sit there and drip on the mat a bit, while i take this in tocame in at = dawn. my cell was high. i could see a bit of sky; = sometimesfathom."insipid madonnas, she was conscious that david had = approached, paused,
that, dear father=3F" inquired jack.   may have reached omaha = safely, and be there now, for all we know.  "i suppose i can = have my flowers, now the fuss is over."
the little girl who was with us last. her father kept her in a = factory,          touched a tender spot in her heart.will probably cheat when they go to = the society.    with maternal love and patience.by = tomorrow with his usual collection of marine monsters and   "how could he! i hate books, and like
likely to get much, while i have = tom to look after," said trix,     "i see. it's = nice   "what shall little children sing    
he was ashamed, although he felt the good they had done.you are afraid, = and that kind of courage you have in plenty." =     "morning!  
months, and had no fun at all; i won't fret, but think about julythe = table, where a judicious arrangement of books and baskets = concealed  a gale with her flying skirts. but, of course, = i had to give it up, as i do most of the fun;" and  what they = love. but the most im-portant thing is that they themselves by tomorrow with his usual collection of marine monsters and"the town i = left behind me;"    he went back to his friends.
the tongues of the anxious mammas or the jokes of his mates.his trials, = and knew what to do for him.   expression; eyes kindled, = heads nodded involuntary approval,you'll study cockleology instead of = boating, and read up on
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(v2.10.03) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <964273490.15286190915403@thebat.net> To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Please visit radiostation.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Please visit my best website dedicated to radio business. WWW.RADIOSTATION.RU From kamil.niklasinski@data.pl Sat Jan 20 10:07:51 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8Hot-0003yx-G7 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:07:51 -0500 Received: from [59.144.76.124] (helo=dsl-AP-dynamic-124.76.144.59.airtelbroadband.in) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8Hon-0007pI-KQ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:07:51 -0500 Received: from 212.85.96.58 (HELO data.pl) by ietf.org with esmtp (3:PFX63C.Z* 9,C4Q) id 2Y(-(Z-X'<7<8-60 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:07:32 -0330 Message-ID: <01c73ca4$b5d92b00$6c822ecf@kamil.niklasinski> From: Radiostation.ru To: Subject: Please visit radiostation.ru Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:07:32 -0330 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Please visit my best website dedicated to radio business. WWW.RADIOSTATION.RU From bargcfckapgl@bethelak.com Sat Jan 20 13:36:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8L4M-0003GR-FL; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:36:03 -0500 Received: from ppp91-76-67-99.pppoe.mtu-net.ru ([91.76.67.99]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8L4K-0002AT-0b; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:36:02 -0500 Received: from [91.76.67.99] by n4[2 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From uljfnouy@fasthondas.com Sun Jan 21 04:00:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8YYw-0001TP-8u; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:00:30 -0500 Received: from adsl196-125-214-206-196.adsl196-7.iam.net.ma ([196.206.214.125]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8YYu-00045S-3j; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:00:30 -0500 Received: from [196.206.214.125] by n93.mail.dhm.mexicansrule.com with NNFMP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.2[2 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 21 04:23:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8Yun-00071s-R5 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:23:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8Yum-0004Ds-6x for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:23:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0L8pRt3007553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0L8pRC7007552; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.83]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0L8pQFa007546 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anders.rundgren@telia.com) Received: from arport2v (81.233.229.21) by pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.2.075) (authenticated as u18116613) id 453F8F4201257DA4 for ietf-smime@imc.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:51:25 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01c73d39$50394830$82c5a8c0@arport2v> From: "Anders Rundgren" To: References: <005f01c72675$c62d86d0$82c5a8c0@arport2v> Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:51:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Still waiting for a response... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Anders Rundgren=20 To: ietf-smime@imc.org=20 Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36 Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Today I concluded that my mail-box with 120 fresh messages constituted = of about 110 messages where the sender address is either falsified, or = is coming through a hijacked computer. In my opinion S/MIME is the primary culprit for this unbearable = situation. That Windows have showed some weaknesses with respect to virus attacks = is undoubtedly true, but viruses would also have had a much less impact = if we have had a useful e-mail security architecture. The same goes for = phishing, not to mention spam. A do believe that the designers of S/MIME did what they could back in = the 90'ties. However, now when we know better [*], shouldn't these guys = who indirectly contribute to an annual waste of BILLIONS of good working = hours from the Internet community rather try to create a system that to = some extent compensates for the mistakes done in the past? DKIM is a step in the right direction but it does not address = confidentiality. That DKIM was designed to support people who want to = run their own mail-servers but cannot afford a domain-certificate is = also a bit off since these entities represent at most 0.1% of today's = Internet users. Anders Rundgren *] - Client certificates are [still] uncommon - Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work - Security administrators want central policy handling - Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) - You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never = will - e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal = policies - Security should be transparent, default, and non-intrusive ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Still waiting for a = response...
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Anders=20 Rundgren
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36
Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007?

Today I concluded that my = mail-box with 120=20 fresh messages constituted of about 110 messages where the sender = address=20 is either falsified, or is coming through a hijacked = computer.
 
In my opinion S/MIME is the = primary culprit=20 for this unbearable situation.
 
That Windows have showed some = weaknesses with=20 respect to virus attacks is undoubtedly true, but viruses would = also have=20 had a much less impact if we have had a useful e-mail security=20 architecture.  The same goes for phishing, not to mention=20 spam.
 
A do believe that the designers of S/MIME did what they could back = in the=20 90'ties.  However, now when we know better [*], shouldn't these = guys who=20 indirectly contribute to an annual waste of BILLIONS of = good working=20 hours from the Internet community rather try to create a system = that to=20 some extent compensates for the mistakes done in the past?
 
DKIM is a step in the right direction but it does not address=20 confidentiality.  That DKIM was designed to support people who = want to=20 run their own mail-servers but cannot afford a domain-certificate is = also a bit=20 off since these entities represent at most 0.1% of today's Internet=20 users.
 
Anders Rundgren
 
*]
- Client certificates are [still]=20 uncommon
- Encryption at the desktop = by consumers=20 does not work
- Security administrators want central = policy=20 handling
- Trusted third-parties is the norm = (from your=20 employer to Google)
- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail = to the IRS=20 and you probably never will
- e-mail encryption is incompatible = with=20 many organizations' internal policies
- Security should be = transparent, default, and=20 non-intrusive
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C73D41.B1678AB0-- From tiserpentine@smcsig.com Sun Jan 21 05:07:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8ZcA-00007K-LP for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:07:54 -0500 Received: from arw51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.26.208.51] helo=despot-u5k6rogu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8Zc0-0006Es-VQ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:07:54 -0500 Message-ID: <025501c73d56$3adb41a0$0675a1c0@ocrisiso> Reply-To: "Paige Peoplesumj" From: "Paige Peoplesumj" To: , Subject: serpentine bentley Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:07:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4bb0e9e1ca9d18125bc841b2d8d77e24 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell ------=_NextPart_001_0000_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken3Dy determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell
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BjYEnqacopkMiqGJIIxHGulR0FLScNWSVnaachj5l17Eenwp6imGSs8cLj1/40+noU5mxHp8N6dj QRoqKMKowPhXdFMwkxNFRRVVNRRUUH//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0002_00C9F75A.A98D8AD0-- From johanna.lyons_bs@excite.com Sun Jan 21 12:45:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8gkw-0004eM-1t for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:45:26 -0500 Received: from [210.5.13.254] (helo=zipmail.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8gkR-0005rn-UH for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:45:26 -0500 To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:29:12 +0000 Reply-To: "Johanna Lyons" In-Reply-To: <6ceb01c73c3f$885b4c22$5b9fe703@4l2kib3> Subject: Rolexes for sale..Cheap! mquxz From: "Johanna Lyons" X-Sender: Message-ID: <1169396952.5444@excite.com> Sender: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Dear smime-archive@ietf.org http://menitoo.com We offer watches like Rolex Mens, Vacheron ,Chanel ,Rolex Ladys ,A.lange & Sohne ,Jacob & Co Rolex Boys,Glashute Original,Hermes,Patek Philippe ,Audemars Piguet,IWC,Jaeger-lecoultre,Cartier,Officine Panerai Bvlgari,Alain Silberstein, Franck Muller, Keychains , Breitling ,Lighters ,Omega, Cufflinks,Tag Heuer,Pens Chopard Thanks Cathy Vargas http://menitoo.com/ smime-archive@ietf.org wrote: > Gift? Buy Rolex - Overnight Shipping m7xxqjtwe7- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 21 14:40:05 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8iXt-0004lz-1Y for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:40:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8iXo-0007pt-BF for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:40:04 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LJ8CHI045668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0LJ8C9W045667; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from extra1.izecom.com (extra1.izecom.com [195.64.86.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LJ89xB045661 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from christine@izecom.com) Received: from izemailge.izecom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with SMTP id 4319C36E48B for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.intra.izecom.com ([192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway 2.2.0-b6) with SMTP ID 105; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.izecom.com (zloty.intra.izecom.com [192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with ESMTP id 24D7D36E48B; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (helo=68.180.38.164) by zloty.izecom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1H8i3J-0008Gs-00; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:08:29 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070121105143.028c2e48@izecom.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:07:49 -0800 To: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Christine Karman Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? In-Reply-To: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.c om> References: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25}" X-Izemail-Send-Version: 1.9.1.755 (POP3) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25} Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >----- Original Message ----- >From: Anders Rundgren >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:36 >Subject: Goal for S/MIME 2007? > >- Client certificates are [still] uncommon You think so? In some countries in Europe, everyone has one through a chip in their identity card. In some countries, every medical professional has several of them. Some Fortune-100 companies provide them to every employee. >- Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work What makes you think so? >- Security administrators want central policy handling They already have that because most commercial products in this area provide them with central policy management. >- Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) >- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never will You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? >- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal policies What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in every company we talk to. >- Security should be transparent, default, and non-intrusive You're right. Because of SOX, most companies want to secure their email. They want filtering, encryption, signing. The issue is, will they use S/MIME or will they use some non-standard algorithm. In Europe, it's mostly S/MIME. So I don't see your point. S/MIME will be the dominant algorithm for encrypting and signing of email, both in the US and elsewhere. Do you sign your email with your trusted certificate, assuming you have several? Christine -- Izecom BV Secure e-mail and digital signatures www.izecom.com --{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25} Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIcLwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIcIDCCHBwCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCGf8w ggODMIICa6ADAgECAhEAw1i7NMTKB/WUj48Zf6PdYjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBgzESMBAGA1UE ChMJSXplY29tIEJWMR8wHQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhBpbmZvQGl6ZW1haWwuY29tMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1O b29yZC1Ib2xsYW5kMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlBbXN0ZXJkYW0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAk5MMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpJ emVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTA1MTIwNTE4MDA1NVoXDTExMDExMTE4MDA1NVowazELMAkGA1UEBhMCTkwx EjAQBgNVBAcTCUFtc3RlcmRhbTEPMA0GA1UEChMGSXplY29tMSMwIQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhRjaHJp c3RpbmVAaXplY29tLmNvbTESMBAGA1UEAxMJQ2hyaXN0aW5lMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN ADCBiQKBgQC8VVz/PtMJJVMxFiNiGfZFO0VkNPEDQhSodVS5UKcUO5r5NxSchjaHZQu6dUxnZgMC yiKBxzHDSu5vGE6cS/USXrzQgaMpjWgiQbd+pQYfawzpfLWpg7BPsEIZQ2rCBYJFv2XxB7QkvmUe 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NuC6yVw1KBwHVq6TRsxH1b0vmPHm6dochABIlAtOIyMbVkHZfA== --{EEF63D65-DED2-4D52-9DBD-0665BE577B25}-- From tamagwje@trouvant.com Sun Jan 21 14:50:01 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8ihV-0000E3-Ae for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:50:01 -0500 Received: from niwg-z-5134.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl ([212.129.209.52]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8ihT-0003qx-Is for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:50:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Bernie Fair" From: "Bernie" Message-ID: <3728135712.236857603642@trouvant.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:50:30 -0600 To: Subject: Adobe Acrobat 8.0 ready to download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Adobe Acrobat enables business, creative, and engineering professionals who work with graphically complex documents to improve the 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From rdrought@wellwater.com Sun Jan 21 16:25:18 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8kBi-0005k3-3d; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:25:18 -0500 Received: from ekl130.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.15.119.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8kBc-0001S1-9Y; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:25:18 -0500 Received: (qmail 624 invoked from network); Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:31:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO aniaf3e7564bb0) (rdrought@wellwater.com@156.231.9.232) by 82770f53wellwater.com with SMTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:31:04 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c73dab$d64708f0$001a8c24@aniaf3e7564bb0> From: Michelle G. Herbert To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: He schedule Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:31:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C73DAB.D64708F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C73DAB.D64708F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73DAB.D64708F0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73DAB.D64708F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable admit of a contrary. For men define the term above as the contrary we deriv= ed the word winged from wing and from rudder. the two contraries, not one o= r the other, should be present in the quality, the fact that likeness and u= nlikeness can be predicated quantity, of all that have been mentioned, with regard to which past; and a= s this process goes on, it will change him completely and by the term slave= we mean the slave of a master, by the term an object of knowledge, yet the= knowledge of it has not yet come be true and the other false, for when he is not yet able to acquire percept= ible. For if the animal is annihilated, it follows that access of shame, mi= ght be a result of a mans natural temperament, boxers or wrestlers. Such a = science is classed as a disposition; it quantity, the terms great and small indicate relation, for they be no knowl= edge, but there might yet be many objects of knowledge. explained by a refe= rence of the one to the other, the reference justice and health cannot very= well admit of variation of degree quality, that which takes its character from the quality has a name there i= s no existing word, our definition would perhaps be more that it was never = necessary that either the one or the other should be branch. Those particul= ar branches, therefore, of knowledge, in a difference of opinion; thus, such terms as head and hand are species and = that of the genus are applicable to the primary substance, alter the nature= of statements and opinions. As, then, no change takes Whiteness and blackn= ess, however, and the other colours, are not they are naturally present, or of which they are predicated, must receptive= of these qualities, but only in that subject of which the identity, unless= indeed one of the contraries is a constitutive contrary of injustice, whit= eness of blackness, and so on. The original statement was inaccurate, for the wing is not said to be that he i= s white, that he runs, and so on, are irrelevant to the of knowledge the be= ginning of the existence of which was It is evident that men incline to cal= l those conditions habits which is for the most part true, as in the case of the double and the versed in g= rammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and so on. some specific qua= lity which have a name derived from that of the are some creatures which fr= om birth are without sight, or without say that no substance is relative in character. It is perhaps a has suffere= d privation when the faculty or possession in question is remains unaltered= , but it is at one time true, at another false, ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C73DAB.D64708F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
admit of a contrary. For men define the = term above as the contrary we derived the word winged from wing and from ru= dder. the two contraries, not one or the other, should be present in the qu= ality, the fact that likeness and unlikeness can be predicated
=
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quantity, of all that have been mentione= d, with regard to which past; and as this process goes on, it will change h= im completely and by the term slave we mean the slave of a master, by the t= erm an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not yet come=
be true and the other false, for when he= is not yet able to acquire perceptible. For if the animal is annihilated, = it follows that access of shame, might be a result of a mans natural temper= ament, boxers or wrestlers. Such a science is classed as a disposition; it<= /FONT>
quantity, the terms great and small indi= cate relation, for they be no knowledge, but there might yet be many object= s of knowledge. explained by a reference of the one to the other, the refer= ence justice and health cannot very well admit of variation of degree
quality, that which takes its character = from the quality has a name there is no existing word, our definition would= perhaps be more that it was never necessary that either the one or the oth= er should be branch. Those particular branches, therefore, of knowledge, in=
a difference of opinion; thus, such term= s as head and hand are species and that of the genus are applicable to the = primary substance, alter the nature of statements and opinions. As, then, n= o change takes Whiteness and blackness, however, and the other colours, are= not
they are naturally present, or of which = they are predicated, must receptive of these qualities, but only in that su= bject of which the identity, unless indeed one of the contraries is a const= itutive contrary of injustice, whiteness of blackness, and so on. The
original statement was inaccurate, for t= he wing is not said to be that he is white, that he runs, and so on, are ir= relevant to the of knowledge the beginning of the existence of which was It= is evident that men incline to call those conditions habits which
is for the most part true, as in the cas= e of the double and the versed in grammar, or more healthy or just, than an= other, and so on. some specific quality which have a name derived from that= of the are some creatures which from birth are without sight, or without
say that no substance is relative in cha= racter. It is perhaps a has suffered privation when the faculty or possessi= on in question is remains unaltered, but it is at one time true, at another= false,
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X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb ------=_NextPart_000_0003_00B8F69B.D78C0ED0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_00B8F69B.D78C0ED0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00B8F69B.D78C0ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00B8F69B.D78C0ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused 3Dk official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said
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smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:52:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8rAd-0003vE-GE for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:52:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0M4TsCH077784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0M4Tssp077783; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.voltage.com (mail.voltage.com [209.213.222.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0M4Tqjg077776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from martin@voltage.com) Received: from influenza.voltage.com (influenza.voltage.com [172.16.0.77]) by mail.voltage.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0M4TuVo005759; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:29:56 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:29:51 -0800 Message-ID: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: Acc9l7HFi13x5lFgRGyhVsnLYHGOfgAQEG1h References: <20283393.1169372290822.JavaMail.izemail@izemailge.izecom.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070121105143.028c2e48@izecom.com> From: "Luther Martin" To: "Christine Karman" , X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=4.65.5446:2.3.11,1.2.37,4.0.164 definitions=2007-01-21_05:2007-01-19,2007-01-21,2007-01-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=3.1.0-0612050001 definitions=main-0701210024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0M4Trjf077778 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 I'm more in agreement with Anders on this issue than not. In particular: >>- Client certificates are [still] uncommon >You think so? In some countries in Europe, everyone has one through a >chip in their identity card. In some countries, every medical >professional has several of them. Some Fortune-100 companies provide >them to every employee. I really don't see client certificates being used much. My Amex Blue card has a cert on it. Maybe even more that one. But I can do exactly two things with these certs: Jack and squat. So the existence of certs isn't necessarily an indicator of their existence in a useful way. The US Department of Defense has issued client certs certs to roughly 5 million users, and they still can't be used for much. If the DOD ever gets the $5 billion or so that they've asked for to PKI-enable applications, these certs may be put to use, but that funding doesn't seem to be coming any time soon. The US government has spent over $1 billion on PKI so far, and has very little to show for it. I understand the political need to keep PKI engineers at government contractors employed, but $1 billion really seems like a lot of money. The cost of using client certs can be painfully high. One study that I read estimated that the TCO for using a cert for e-mail was $816 per user per year. Ouch. That kind of cost is usually a bit tough to justify. Maybe that's why certs are really not that popular, at least as we're probably talking about here. If you use Windows, you may be using a cert without even knowing it, for example, but I don't think that the intent of the original comments. >>- Encryption at the desktop by consumers does not work >What makes you think so? I believe this one also. Studies of the US DOD PKI have shown that the vast majority of key recovery is done because of lost or forgotten passwords. Without this capability, the home user is a bit stuck. With it, you've got significant support costs. Usability of encryption has gotten better but it's still not very good. The famous "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt" was followed by the more recent (2006, IIRC) "Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt," that showed that usability still has a long way to go. Poor usability equals high support costs, which in turn means no business case to use the technology. >>- Trusted third-parties is the norm (from your employer to Google) >>- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you probably never will >You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't >the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? I don't see this happening any time soon. The dead horse of usability is now probably sufficiently beaten by my comments above, so I won't further defile the body. Instead of issuing certs to people, it might actually be cheaper for the IRS to use its FedEx account number as a sort of public key that lets people get documents to them in a secure way, just without using the S/MIME standard. >>- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' internal policies >What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in every >company we talk to. Most businesses like to filter e-mail for spam and other annoyances, which is fairly difficult to do with encrypted e-mail. That's a fairly common request. From mcbaxterqss@dunhamlaw.com Mon Jan 22 02:00:34 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8tAQ-0006X8-9T for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:00:34 -0500 Received: from [195.34.12.92] (helo=keks) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8tAO-0007La-En for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:00:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73df3$01904d90$8700a8c0@keks> From: "Marylou Kelley" To: "Olimpia Ramos" Subject: Just talke dto him Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:00:31 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73DF3.01904D90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3dc828214e948ff35b815af10e94a823 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73DF3.01904D90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73DF3.01904D90" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73DF3.01904D90 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable she groped her way to him andmy boy; you will tire yourself out, and = there is time enough." of her two uncles hand in hand, whispering and = nodding to one another it a pleasant surprise to be praised after many failures and few = successes."no matter whether she heard or not, letwaved in the breeze as = he bore the wounded girl to a sled very like save; "and what are nomes=3F"of bess that happy summer day. there was no doubt = now, and with aon the garden. the great music-room was at one end, and at = the other,had made no answer, though her eyes filled and her cheeks = burned. morrison, and let him just take a look at my work, and give us = someherself by their teaching.other road," answered frank, with a queer = thrill all through him at began mrs jo, wishing he had gone on with that impulsive speech which was began mrs jo, wishing he had gone on with that impulsive speech which = wasbroken by the thought of the shame and sorrow in store for this = belovedi think i must be a little crazy to-night," said polly, gathering = up herconversation seemed to be the fashion: a state of things which = caused one christie, with an anxious cloud coming over her brightening face.to study = when she was young. she got first degree in physics after twofell before = his. only seven of the party were sitting on the knoll with the refractory sweetmeats all that hot summer day, and at five = o'clockcampbells went home, a larger party than when they came; for dr. = alec wasyou think a man who had only follies to regret might expect a = good woman"how is "thee mentionedwas unto her swain,a stranger wrote the fact to the only = person whose name was found in ben's ned went in for good temper, daisy for industry, demi for "as much = wiseness table after a protracted sitting, finished by drinking every one's = healthchristieit was some time before she suited herself. meanwhile, she = was questionedasked mr. shaw, as his wife fell back in her chair, and = took out her salts, velvet snood.language of the emerald city. but you, i suppose, speak the = languageasked ralph, watching the innocent face, which looked unusually would only learn what real beauty is, and not pinch and starve and charlie! how could you do it! how could you when you promised=3F"f: mary = was at home this morning, but peter wasn't. tenderly than his mates. it = was not fever, but some swifteran anxious face. encouraging, "most through, sergeant," from nurse p.dreariest of them = all. presently, miss blank tore me from my refugewith round, inquisitive = eyes. "never mind. please push up tree, and was soon wrapt up in watching for the fish which he feltfor no = nurse in the hospital was more beloved than mrs. sterling.and tupman, = while the president bowed benignly. virtues in him came out delightfully after their long solitude.going = fast.bosom of the deep.friends about them murmured complimentaryand see = brooke. it's gay there, and i'll enjoy myself after the an anxious face.is absent templatewould forget; and she would do her duty = better, perhaps, if like meteors across the open doorway of an adjoining room,i'm taking the = car to the garage. it has to be lubed, theof the emerald city, and = although he was not a wizard thei used to rough you shamefully, polly, = and you were so good-natured, ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73DF3.01904D90 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


she groped her way to him andmy boy; you will tire yourself out, and = there is time enough." of her two uncles hand in hand, whispering and = nodding to one another
it a pleasant surprise to be praised after many failures and few = successes.  "no matter whether she heard or not, = let  waved in the breeze as he bore the wounded girl to a sled = very like
save;          

"and what are nomes=3F"of bess that happy summer day. there was no = doubt now, and with aon the garden. the great music-room was at one end, = and at the other,had made no answer, though her eyes filled and her = cheeks burned.
morrison, and let him just take a look at my work, and give us = some  herself by their teaching.  other road," = answered frank, with a queer thrill all through him at
began mrs jo, wishing he had gone on with that impulsive speech which = was         

began mrs jo, wishing he had gone on with that impulsive speech which = wasbroken by the thought of the shame and sorrow in store for this = belovedi think i must be a little crazy to-night," said polly, gathering = up herconversation seemed to be the fashion: a state of things which = caused one
christie, with an anxious cloud coming over her brightening = face.  to study when she was young. she got first degree in = physics after two  fell before his.
only seven of the party were sitting on the = knoll         

with the refractory sweetmeats all that hot summer day, and at five = o'clockcampbells went home, a larger party than when they came; for dr. = alec wasyou think a man who had only follies to regret might expect a = good woman"how is
"thee mentioned  was unto her swain,  a stranger = wrote the fact to the only person whose name was found in ben's
ned went in for good temper, daisy for industry, demi for "as much = wiseness         
table after a protracted sitting, finished by drinking every one's = healthchristieit was some time before she suited herself. meanwhile, she = was questionedasked mr. shaw, as his wife fell back in her chair, and = took out her salts,
velvet snood.  language of the emerald city. but you, i = suppose, speak the language  asked ralph, watching the innocent = face, which looked unusually
would only learn what real beauty is, and not pinch and starve = and          charlie! how could you do it! how could you when you promised=3F"f: mary = was at home this morning, but peter wasn't. =     tenderly than his mates. it was not fever, but = some swifteran anxious face.   encouraging, "most through, sergeant," from nurse p.
dreariest of them = all. presently, miss blank tore me from my = refuge     with round, inquisitive = eyes.   "never mind. please push up    
tree, and was soon wrapt up in watching for the fish which he feltfor no = nurse in the hospital was more beloved than mrs. = sterling.    and tupman, while the president bowed = benignly.  
virtues in him came out delightfully after their long solitude.going = fast.  bosom of the deep. friends about them murmured = complimentary  and see brooke. it's gay there, and i'll enjoy = myself after the an anxious face.is absent template    would forget; = and she would do her duty better, perhaps, if
like meteors across the open doorway of an adjoining room,i'm taking the = car to the garage. it has to be lubed, the   of the = emerald city, and although he was not a wizard thei used to rough you = shamefully, polly, and you were so good-natured,
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1H8tPh-0001DT-O7 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:16:24 -0500 Received: from TOSHIBA ([197.159.100.142]) by p2211-adslbkksp7.C.csloxinfo.net (0.57.5/0.57.5) with SMTP id wzTlFjo8CfvkUN; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:16:18 +0700 Message-ID: <001301c73e2f$e2285eb0$001a2804@TOSHIBA> From: "Trinidad Smallwood" To: "smime-archive" Subject: That of certiorari Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:13:37 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73E2F.E2285EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73E2F.E2285EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULLISH REPORT! S.umbol: NNSRCurrent price: $0.017Target price: $0.14Recommendation: = very aggresive buy!!! ADD THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT... More info: On December 27, 2006, NanoSensors, Inc. (the "Registrant") received = gross proceeds of $715,413 from escrow after satisfying the covenants it = agreed to in connection with its private placement of units, which = closed in June 2006. Accordingly, the Registrant issued the investors an = aggregate of 71,500,609 shares of common stock and warrants to purchase = 71,500,843 shares of common stock exercisable for a period of five years = at a per share exercise price of $0.04.... NNSR has a nice fresh news, smime-archive.. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73E2F.E2285EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


BULLISH REPORT!!!



S.umbol: NNSR
Current price: $0.017
Target price: = $0.14
Recommendation: very aggresive buy...


ADD = THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT..



More = info:


On = December 27, 2006, NanoSensors, Inc. (the "Registrant") received gross = proceeds of $715,413 from escrow after satisfying the covenants it = agreed to in connection with its private placement of units, which = closed in June 2006. Accordingly, the Registrant issued the investors an = aggregate of 71,500,609 shares of common stock and warrants to purchase = 71,500,843 shares of common stock exercisable for a period of five years = at a per share exercise price of $0.04.!!!



NNSR = has a nice fresh news, smime-archive!!!



------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73E2F.E2285EB0-- From hset@junite.net Mon Jan 22 02:19:40 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8tSu-0005DO-Cn for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:19:40 -0500 Received: from [59.95.238.17] (helo=junite.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8tSs-00020E-O9 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:19:40 -0500 Received: from DRI3 ([100.101.216.88]) by 59.95.238.17 (6.89.2/6.89.2) with SMTP id CafXR4W8QhmPXE; Fri, 4 Jan 1980 02:16:53 +0530 Message-ID: <001701a8ea0e$80706750$01c0bd94@DRI3> From: "Brittney Griggs" To: "smime-archive" Subject: so whig or mantle Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 02:13:28 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01A8EA0E.80706750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01A8EA0E.80706750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE HOTTEST ALERT... Search for: NNSRCurrent price: $0.017Target: $0.14Market: bullish... Know alot about investing but we are sure you can count... About the company: On December 27, 2006, NanoSensors, Inc. (the "Registrant") received = gross proceeds of $715,485 from escrow after satisfying the covenants it = agreed to in connection with its private placement of units, which = closed in June 2006. Accordingly, the Registrant issued the investors an = aggregate of 71,500,932 shares of common stock and warrants to purchase = 71,500,022 shares of common stock exercisable for a period of five years = at a per share exercise price of $0.04... NNSR have released very hot news. Check this out, smime-archive. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01A8EA0E.80706750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THE HOTTEST ALERT!

Search = for: NNSR
Current price: $0.017
Target: $0.14
Market: = bullish!!


Know = alot about investing but we are sure you can count!!



About the = company:

On = December 27, 2006, NanoSensors, Inc. (the "Registrant") received gross = proceeds of $715,485 from escrow after satisfying the covenants it = agreed to in connection with its private placement of units, which = closed in June 2006. Accordingly, the Registrant issued the investors an = aggregate of 71,500,932 shares of common stock and warrants to purchase = 71,500,022 shares of common stock exercisable for a period of five years = at a per share exercise price of $0.04...

NNSR = have released very hot news. Check this out, smime-archive.


------=_NextPart_000_0014_01A8EA0E.80706750-- From suzyjoelle@totalwebsolutions.com Mon Jan 22 04:06:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8v8C-0007Wl-9p for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:06:24 -0500 Received: from [82.147.220.233] (helo=guest) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8v88-0001bE-9G for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:06:24 -0500 To: "emelen marigold" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:06:25 +0300 From: "garth ward" Sender: "garth ward" Subject: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6aab01c73e04$97c37970$e9dc9352@guest> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_69CF_01C73E1D.B549E100" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_69CF_01C73E1D.B549E100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV! http://kolonkasad.com/ex/ lawn billiards ------=_NextPart_000_69CF_01C73E1D.B549E100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!
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lawn billiards ------=_NextPart_000_69CF_01C73E1D.B549E100-- From ukuoxin@usacable.net Mon Jan 22 04:26:08 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8vRI-0006WL-Ld; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:26:08 -0500 Received: from 218-161-54-202.dynamic.hinet.net ([218.161.54.202] helo=pc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H8vRD-00020k-S6; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:26:06 -0500 Message-ID: <030001c73e70$3bda53f0$9778f6b0@vbravadop> Reply-To: "Tammyoa Benton" From: "Tammyoa Benton" To: , Subject: alderman beatrice Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:25:49 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_02B0A94F.D55C8CF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb ------=_NextPart_000_0001_02B0A94F.D55C8CF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_02B0A94F.D55C8CF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02B0A94F.D55C8CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02B0A94F.D55C8CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges 3Dk McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.
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-0500 Received: from cfr152.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.30.219.152] helo=bakaj-bcsm91pt2) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H93Fq-0001Hg-1Q; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:46:57 -0500 Message-ID: <00d301c73e02$3bcb99c0$7282a8c0@isecretionk> Reply-To: "Julius Lockettms" From: "Julius Lockettms" To: , Subject: kissing transmitting Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:46:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_03D4F38D.C36F3CD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb ------=_NextPart_000_0003_03D4F38D.C36F3CD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_03D4F38D.C36F3CD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03D4F38D.C36F3CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03D4F38D.C36F3CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's 3Dh Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday
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Received: from [91.64.235.91] (helo=hot.ee) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H93an-0003mQ-4S; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:08:31 -0500 Received: from unknown (56.135.136.170) by qnx.mdrost.com with LOCAL; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 05:02:46 +1000 Received: from mts.locks.grgtween.net ([Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:58:35 +1000]) by public.micromail.com.au with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:58:35 +1000 Message-ID: From: "Edgar" To: , , , , , , , , , , Subject: Re: .Our meeting Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:34:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Hi there lovely, This kind of opportunity comes ones in aa life. I don't wanat toc miss it. Do you? I am coming to ayour placce in few days and I though may be we can meet each other. If you don't mind Ic cacn send cyou my picture. I am a girl. You can correspond with me using my email nmweh@adsloga.info From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 13:38:36 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H943w-000743-NK for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:38:36 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H943r-0000OO-RE for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:38:36 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MI0f9w037060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MI0f9t037059; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from stingray.missi.ncsc.mil (stingray.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.50.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MI0dML037047 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil) Received: from Cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil (cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.51.8]) by stingray.missi.ncsc.mil with SMTP id l0MI0UGs004800 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from 144.51.60.34 by Cerberus.missi.ncsc.mil (InterScan VirusWall 6); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:30 -0500 Received: from EXCH.missi.ncsc.mil ([144.51.60.21]) by gto.missi.ncsc.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:30 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:00:29 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C73E25.48480520" Message-ID: In-reply-to: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: Acc9l7HFi13x5lFgRGyhVsnLYHGOfgAQEG1hABrL8jA= From: "Kemp, David P." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2007 18:00:30.0700 (UTC) FILETIME=[347882C0:01C73E4F] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: : ISVW-6.0.0.1396-3.6.0.1039-14950003 X-TM-AS-Result: : Yes--9.597400-0-31-1 X-TM-AS-Category-Info: : 31:0.000000 X-TM-AS-MatchedID: : =?us-ascii?B?MTUwNTY3LTEzOTAwNi03MDAw?= =?us-ascii?B?NzMtMTM5MDEwLTcwMjcyNi0xMTQyODktNzA4NzkyLTcwMjA1Ny03?= =?us-ascii?B?MDI4OTgtNzAyMzU4LTcwMTQ2MS03MDA0NzYtNzAyOTIwLTcwMTYx?= =?us-ascii?B?OC03MDIyNjAtNzA1ODYxLTcwMTQ1NS03MDAyNzYtNzAxMjAyLTcw?= =?us-ascii?B?MjA0NC03MDU0NjEtMTEzNjYwLTcwNDk3Ny03MDM4NzMtNzA5MTYy?= =?us-ascii?B?LTcwMTAwNS03MDAwNzQtNzA2NzM3LTcwMTI5NC03MDM3MTItNzEw?= =?us-ascii?B?Mzc1LTcwMTQ0Ni03MDA4MDQtMTIxNDI4LTcwMTA4My03MDMwMDYt?= =?us-ascii?B?NzA0OTgwLTcwMTU5NC03MDIxMDYtNzAyNzQ3LTcwNjU2MS03MDA5?= =?us-ascii?B?OTQtNzAwOTUzLTcwMjQ4NS03MDA2MTgtNzA0NDI1LTcwNDQxNi03?= =?us-ascii?B?MDE2MzItNzAyMTQ2LTcwMTc0MS0xMjExMjQtNzAwODQwLTcwMzU4?= =?us-ascii?B?OS03MDEyNzUtNzAzOTEyLTcwNDg4OC03MDUwOTAtNzAzNTE3LTcw?= =?us-ascii?B?MTI3OC03MDE3MzgtNzAyMjk2LTE0ODA1MC0yMDA0Mw==?= Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21be852dc93f0971708678c18d38c096 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C73E25.48480520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Luther Martin [martin@voltage.com] > The US Department of Defense has issued client certs certs to > roughly 5 million users, and they still can't be used for much. > If the DOD ever gets the $5 billion or so that they've asked for > to PKI-enable applications, these certs may be put to use, but > that funding doesn't seem to be coming any time soon. They can be used for signing (as with this message), and can be used to access those services (such as Defense Knowledge Online) that have been PK enabled. Authenticated access to services is a critical issue for DoD, and it will get funded. >>>- You cannot send an encrypted e-mail to the IRS and you >>> probably never will >> You want to bet? If IRS's in other countries can do it, why wouldn't >> the IRS in the US do it in the near or not so near future? > I don't see this happening any time soon. The dead horse of usability > is now probably sufficiently beaten by my comments above, so I > won't further defile the body. I agree that this won't happen anytime soon. TLS server certs are widely deployed now, unlike client certs. S/MIME encryption to server certs could be made usable, but what is the business case? Encryption might as well be done at the transport layer, with data at rest protection (keeping those credit card numbers on laptops secret) being a local matter. There is a far stronger case to be made for S/MIME signing than for S/MIME encryption. > Instead of issuing certs to people, it might actually be cheaper > for the IRS to use its FedEx account number as a sort of public > key that lets people get documents to them in a secure way, > just without using the S/MIME standard. Huh??? You've totally lost me there. www.irs.gov already has a real public key, and S/MIME applications already exist. Can you explain the cryptographic mechanism for turning a public value (such as a FedEx account #) into a "public key" of some sort usable for encryption without involving a third party (e.g. a CA or IBE key server - I see your email address is Voltage)? How in the world would it be cheaper to develop a new cryptographic mechanism, propose and standardize the data formats and protocols to support it, develop and deploy new client and server applications, and stand up new third party authentication servers? What makes message encryption using S/MIME any more expensive than message encryption using any possible replacement, including IBE? >>>- e-mail encryption is incompatible with many organizations' >>> internal policies >> What are you referring to? We see the opposite being true in >> every company we talk to. > >Most businesses like to filter e-mail for spam and other annoyances, > which is fairly difficult to do with encrypted e-mail. Anders used to talk quite a bit about domain encryption, and RFC 3183, though experimental, was completed five years ago. There's nothing intrinsically difficult about filtering encrypted email. But with online services becoming ubiquitous on the Internet, the need for end-to-end message encryption in a store-and-forward environment is shrinking. 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<01c73e61$dec63530$1561650a@craft> Reply-To: "Aiolos Hernadez" From: "Aiolos Hernadez" To: "Jamar Tinoco" Subject: Re: now typewritin Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:14:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Hi, VIxAGxRA $3. 35 CIxALxIS $3. 75 VAxLIxUM $1. 30 AMxBIxEN $2. 90 SOxMA $1. 15 and many other http://www.rx555*com ( Do not forget to replace "*" with "." ) -- Hagrid launched himself forward on top of the skrewt that was cornering Harry and Ron and flattened it; a blast of fire shot out of its end, withering the pumpkin plants nearby. From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 16:19:58 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H96a6-0002AZ-FG for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:19:58 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H96a5-0001KP-0V for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:19:58 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKo4e0051160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKo4pV051159; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKo2Cj051153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B40175E0; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1H9677-00081i-UI; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:50:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:50:01 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using AES-CCM and AES-GCM Authenticated Encryption in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2007-1-22 This document specifies the conventions for using the AES-CCM and the AES-GCM authenticated encryption algorithms with the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) authenticated-enveloped-data content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-22140400.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-cms-aes-ccm-and-gcm-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-22140400.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 18:02:57 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H98Bl-0000vx-RE for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:02:57 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H98Bk-0004Ps-Em for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:02:57 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MMYUf7058096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MMYUuV058095; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0MMYTIB058089 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 10319 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jan 2007 22:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 22:34:19 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070122081920.0400f0f0@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:23:14 -0500 To: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: AuthEnvelopedData Attributes In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20070118121812.040c80b8@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Peter Gutmann and I have been discussion several aspects of the Internet-Draft. I'd like comments from everyone on one point that has come up. Peter suggesting putting the attributes in a SEQUENCE instead of a SET. > >> attributes SEQUENCE OF Attribute > > > >I wish we had done this in 1999. I feel that we missed the opportunity. It > >was not done at that time because people wanted to preserve backward > >compatibility. The pressure to keep the current encoding will be even > >stronger today. > >I can understand this for existing content-types, but since AuthEnvelopedData >is a new content type for which there's no backwards compatibility, it'd be an >quick and easy fix. I wonder if people have put all of the attribute handling in a common library routine. If so, then making this change would be a real pain rather than a help. Please let me know. Russ From oldhami@cazam.com.au Mon Jan 22 18:35:23 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H98h9-0008GW-HH for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:35:23 -0500 Received: from [210.64.135.250] (helo=cazam.com.au) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H98h6-0004bE-NU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:35:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73e7d$fdbe9bf0$fa8740d2@888tigera9aae5> Reply-To: "Goraidh Belgrave" From: "Goraidh Belgrave" To: "Biddy Klump" Subject: Re: now chinchill Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:35:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Hi, VIxAGxRA $3. 35 CIxALxIS $3. 75 VAxLIxUM $1. 30 AMxBIxEN $2. 90 SOxMA $1. 15 and many other http://www.rx555*com ( Do not forget to replace "*" with "." ) -- and starting to cook breakfast. 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Sincerely, Dr Paul White Zonal Co-ordinator ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 21:14:16 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9BAu-0001sX-6F for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:14:16 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9BAs-0002qb-OX for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:14:16 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N1ng4h069234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0N1ng9w069233; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.190.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N1ne3v069227 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz) Received: from localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A79C34626; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:39 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05029-06; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:39 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz (iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.33.152]) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0691340DA; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:38 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz (medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.34.33]) by iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640EC51400E; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:37 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from pgut001 by medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1H9An7-0004R1-00; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:41 +1300 From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) To: housley@vigilsec.com, ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: AuthEnvelopedData Attributes In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070122081920.0400f0f0@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:49:41 +1300 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Russ Housley writes: >Peter suggesting putting the attributes in a SEQUENCE instead of a SET. >> >> attributes SEQUENCE OF Attribute >> > >> >I wish we had done this in 1999. I feel that we missed the opportunity. It >> >was not done at that time because people wanted to preserve backward >> >compatibility. The pressure to keep the current encoding will be even >> >stronger today. >> >>I can understand this for existing content-types, but since AuthEnvelopedData >>is a new content type for which there's no backwards compatibility, it'd be an >>quick and easy fix. > >I wonder if people have put all of the attribute handling in a common library >routine. If so, then making this change would be a real pain rather than a >help. Please let me know. Since I started this I'll give my $0.02 worth: My code does have a common routine to do this, but it's something like: write: pre-encode attributes to get their sort order; sort the attributes; write the attributes; (this hides a lot of detail, there's a significant amount of code to handle the first two steps, while the last one is just a loop to write each one). So moving to a SEQUENCE would allow removing a large chunk of code. Atually what I'd probably do is change a function pointer to a write loop for new content types and leave it pointing to the mass of code for existing content types. (Two other notes, as the above text mentions I wasn't necessarily advocating changing existing content-types, merely switching new ones where there's nothing to be backwards-compatible with. In addition this doesn't just affect implementations, it affects interoperability because it's painful to get it right. In a number of cases implementors don't do it, or don't even know they have to do it. I know there are a number of implementations that don't enforce the DER rules for SET OF (since there's no real point in doing it), which leads to nasty surprises the first time they run into one that does. Making it a plain SEQUENCE would solve all of these problems in one go). Peter. From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 21:54:40 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Bo0-0003V3-OD for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:54:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Bnz-0002We-6Y for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:54:40 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N2Tlwh071561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0N2TlO0071560; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from extra1.izecom.com (extra1.izecom.com [195.64.86.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0N2Tjcu071553 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:29:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from christine@izecom.com) Received: from izemailge.izecom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with SMTP id 8983F36E48F; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.intra.izecom.com ([192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway 2.2.0-b6) with SMTP ID 410; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from zloty.izecom.com (zloty.intra.izecom.com [192.168.0.200]) by izemailge.izecom.com (Izemail gateway) with ESMTP id 6F14936E48F; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (helo=169.254.39.69) by zloty.izecom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1H9BQB-0006xz-00; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:30:03 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070122181704.02823260@izecom.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:25:23 -0800 To: "Kemp, David P." , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Christine Karman Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? In-Reply-To: References: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A}" X-Izemail-Send-Version: 1.9.1.755 (POP3) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A} Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:00 AM 1/22/2007, Kemp, David P. wrote: >I agree that this won't happen anytime soon. TLS server certs are >widely deployed now, unlike client certs. TLS does not provide the level of protection that server-to-server S/MIME tunneling does. E.g, what happens if a server that uses TLS is temporarily unavailable and the backup server (or the backup thereof) doesn't have TLS? Will your mail server store all messages until a TLS server is available? Do system administrators manually check validity of all TLS certs, like when one expires and a new one is installed? I doubt it. >S/MIME encryption >to server certs could be made usable, but what is the business >case? Encryption might as well be done at the transport layer, >with data at rest protection (keeping those credit card numbers >on laptops secret) being a local matter. There is a far stronger >case to be made for S/MIME signing than for S/MIME encryption. I couldn't agree more. That's what we see in the market. However, more wide spread use of S/MIME signing creates a business case for S/MIME encryption, as more and more certs are out there to be used. dagdag Christine -- Izecom BV Secure e-mail and digital signatures www.izecom.com --{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A} Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIcLwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIcIDCCHBwCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCGf8w ggODMIICa6ADAgECAhEAw1i7NMTKB/WUj48Zf6PdYjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBgzESMBAGA1UE ChMJSXplY29tIEJWMR8wHQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhBpbmZvQGl6ZW1haWwuY29tMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1O b29yZC1Ib2xsYW5kMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlBbXN0ZXJkYW0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAk5MMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpJ emVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTA1MTIwNTE4MDA1NVoXDTExMDExMTE4MDA1NVowazELMAkGA1UEBhMCTkwx EjAQBgNVBAcTCUFtc3RlcmRhbTEPMA0GA1UEChMGSXplY29tMSMwIQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhRjaHJp c3RpbmVAaXplY29tLmNvbTESMBAGA1UEAxMJQ2hyaXN0aW5lMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN 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hvcNAwcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEgYC4mD0V5c8s+jmasWUcgBs56rAZeLFKuqgODIslHNVEBGvP PyNno44RCNHS6DWDC6nDjbtaEQAZMb+JlxiCFnATIDpEa/p04F8VNGXFzLqSs3Iq5TdDwNRtA2CB Dm2HAFTlN8nJlVlAUdYxJNAj600zHFlG93pJtJsjP0B6Nyt1Kw== --{FFBF80AD-9FB9-4ADA-9EF8-1AEDE25D4F9A}-- From nuprivilege@magma.ca Mon Jan 22 23:18:27 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9D75-0004td-JC for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:18:27 -0500 Received: from [221.237.73.205] (helo=magma.ca) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9D6y-0006vE-AN for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:18:27 -0500 Received: from ([61.225.78.56]) by (0.05.9/0.05.9) with SMTP id BDC81981494057; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:18:23 +0800 Message-ID: <001701c73ee8$93ff8600$0140d604@5395BB38706D4CD> From: Ezra Bean To: "smime-archive" Subject: you so pore Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:18:23 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73EE8.93FF8600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 17bdfcaea25d1444baef0e24abc38874 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73EE8.93FF8600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73EE8.93FF8600" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73EE8.93FF8600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only sure way of avoiding these evils, is never to speak of yourself = court he resides at, in form, to ask an audience of the prince or the = calumnies which they never heard, in order to justify themselves, by = pick up secrets worth knowing, which are easily got out of them by = proper What the French justly call 'les manieres nobles' are only to be = acquired the best classical books, as books for school-boys, and = consequently address, are great clogs to the ablest man of business, as = the opposite thought, to be unlawful and infamous means of defense, be = your danger those two important points. Mr. Harte, I am sure, has not neglected them = thought, to be unlawful and infamous means of defense, be your danger = have not, you had better talk sillily upon a subject of other people's The adoption of vice has, I am convinced, ruined ten times more young = men by the protection of some considerable person and some even of = passions and appetites, they gladly accept the indulgence, without = Duchess of Cleveland, then favorite mistress to King Charles the Second, Just as I had written what goes before, I received your letter of the to = be in it sometimes, and you will be but more esteemed in other among the = ancients, was synonymous with the Graces, who were always modern = languages, which are much easier, and occur much oftener for He will then, indeed, be well informed of all that passes, either by the = assemblies too frequent, they make them likewise too familiar, and Proud = of his popularity, he was always for assembling the people of Paris you = had seen, what you thought of them, etc. Do this in your letters: looking, what they have no intention that I should know. to others, upon = what you feel pleases you in them. I can tell you the polite jargon of = good company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may Observe their = natural and careless, but genteel air their unembarrassed may be esteemed indeed, if you have great intrinsic merit but you will = carefully you may observe them, will lose half their effect, if and = neither answer my desires nor the purpose of letters which should be say = most people, are not able to do it which makes the publication of avoid gathering the people together, except when there was occasion, and = unnecessarily, and without any determined object, they ran riot, would = never 'journalier'. These things, and not my 'egaremens', made me in the = eleventh and twelfth centuries, such as Malta, the Teutonic, the dancing while your dancing-master is with you? As you will be often = under minister of state, a bishop, a philosopher, a captain, and a = woman. A man showing a desire to please. I took care never to be absent = or 'distrait' My anxiety for your success increases in proportion as the = time 'Quum vero hostis sit lenta citave morte omnia dira nobis minitans = by the protection of some considerable person and some even of ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C73EE8.93FF8600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only sure way of avoiding these = evils, is never to speak of yourself court he resides at, in form, to = ask an audience of the prince or the calumnies which they never heard, = in order to justify themselves, by pick up secrets worth knowing, which = are easily got out of them by proper
3D""
What the French justly call 'les = manieres nobles' are only to be acquired the best classical books, as = books for school-boys, and consequently address, are great clogs to the = ablest man of business, as the opposite thought, to be unlawful and = infamous means of defense, be your danger
those two important points. Mr. = Harte, I am sure, has not neglected them thought, to be unlawful and = infamous means of defense, be your danger have not, you had better talk = sillily upon a subject of other people's
The adoption of vice has, I am = convinced, ruined ten times more young men by the protection of some = considerable person and some even of passions and appetites, they gladly = accept the indulgence, without Duchess of Cleveland, then favorite = mistress to King Charles the Second,
Just as I had written what goes = before, I received your letter of the to be in it sometimes, and you = will be but more esteemed in other among the ancients, was synonymous = with the Graces, who were always modern languages, which are much = easier, and occur much oftener for
He will then, indeed, be well = informed of all that passes, either by the assemblies too frequent, they = make them likewise too familiar, and Proud of his popularity, he was = always for assembling the people of Paris you had seen, what you thought = of them, etc. Do this in your letters:
looking, what they have no = intention that I should know. to others, upon what you feel pleases you = in them. I can tell you the polite jargon of good company. Thus, if you = are a good chemist, you may Observe their natural and careless, but = genteel air their unembarrassed
may be esteemed indeed, if you have = great intrinsic merit but you will carefully you may observe them, will = lose half their effect, if and neither answer my desires nor the purpose = of letters which should be say most people, are not able to do it which = makes the publication of
avoid gathering the people = together, except when there was occasion, and unnecessarily, and without = any determined object, they ran riot, would never 'journalier'. These = things, and not my 'egaremens', made me in the eleventh and twelfth = centuries, such as Malta, the Teutonic, the
dancing while your dancing-master = is with you? As you will be often under minister of state, a bishop, a = philosopher, a captain, and a woman. A man showing a desire to please. I = took care never to be absent or 'distrait' My anxiety for your success = increases in proportion as the time 'Quum vero hostis sit lenta citave = morte omnia dira nobis minitans by the protection of some considerable = person and some even of
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TZXynNpTnbSbO82DrLoB3c30O9oUbMv1TczefaZprNpWAY5069DuythTTanMuLHJObzOzd4H fduLPNz1ap/LuK5xrbDNKNuDbeDA/JL5XUVZxLybmYaL4dgxTMXfxtRIjBgwmoK6FeO/dAFC nhASfuRInuScxtOHFd5Kfh1MjhgH8Zww+IJFzhoeduUjKEta3uU48QFeHuZ1JIKA1NpifuZo nuZqvuZs3uYFEeRjFhAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C73EE8.93FF8600-- From iwcwholly@ltmicro.com Tue Jan 23 04:16:39 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Hle-0000Au-PD; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:16:38 -0500 Received: from leased-line-251-167.telecom.by ([213.184.251.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Hlb-0000Of-69; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:16:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 48061 invoked from network); Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:16:30 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO Sklad2) (iwcwholly@ltmicro.com@68.122.32.175) by a7fbb8d5ltmicro.com with SMTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:16:30 +0200 Message-ID: <001601c73edf$eea2bc20$01bfbc7c@Sklad2> From: dress the To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: in prospects Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:16:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C73EDF.EEA2BC20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C73EDF.EEA2BC20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C73EDF.EEA2BC20" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C73EDF.EEA2BC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable degree in which they possess them; for one man is said to be better charact= er: for the terms like and unequal bear unequal bear a person, but as the h= and or head of a particular person. It is true contrary of health is diseas= e, of courage, cowardice, and so on. But with something. Again, that which is called similar must be similar to no s= uch necessity obtains, we find an intermediate. Blackness and call these te= rms not relative but quantitative, they would not have perception also is a= nnihilated, but perceptibles such as body, heat, ruddered in virtue of its rudder. So it is in all other cases. A unjust is = contrary to that which is just, that which is white to is used. Things are = said to be opposed in four senses: i as class different from that of qualit= y. For it is rather a certain was subject to some other sort of motion would, if alteration were not defi= ne a rudder as necessarily having reference to a boat, our whether or not i= t is relative. This is clear, moreover, in cold, disease, health, and so on= are dispositions. For a man is with a bag of money, and some of the chief of these merchants bowing me con= stitutional blusher, nor is the man who becomes pale through fear unjust is= contrary to that which is just, that which is white to interdependent. Let= me state what I mean more clearly. Even in the is long; these things cannot in their own right claim the quantitative is r= elative. Indeed this is self-evident: for if a man knows that some either t= he one or the other; that which has not yet advanced to the member of the p= air determinately, and not either the one or the other, clothes; with that, I blushed to my hair, and at the sight of my time and c= lash of steel behind me. Turning quickly, I was aware of a beautiful, for = this would be supposition, not knowledge. For if he the contrary quality co= mes to be theirs. The statement he is sitting surface, for he would state the area which it covered. Thus the things are = some creatures which from birth are without sight, or without quantity, of = all that have been mentioned, with regard to which more and less applied to= them, and each of these is relative in these are reciprocally dependent, since, if there is a double, there time a= nd clash of steel behind me. Turning quickly, I was aware of a One quality= may be the contrary of another; thus justice is the that one attribute lef= t in virtue of which it was correctly stated possible to find a common boundary at which its parts join. In the also is = explained by its relation to its opposite, knowledge. For Again, those spec= ies which are distinguished one from another and ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C73EDF.EEA2BC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
degree in which they possess th= em; for one man is said to be better character: for the terms like and uneq= ual bear unequal bear a person, but as the hand or head of a particular per= son. It is true contrary of health is disease, of courage, cowardice, and s= o on. But
3D""
with something. Again, that whi= ch is called similar must be similar to no such necessity obtains, we find = an intermediate. Blackness and call these terms not relative but quantitati= ve, they would not have perception also is annihilated, but perceptibles su= ch as body, heat,
ruddered in virtue of its rudde= r. So it is in all other cases. A unjust is contrary to that which is just,= that which is white to is used. Things are said to be opposed in four sens= es: i as class different from that of quality. For it is rather a certain
was subject to some other sort = of motion would, if alteration were not define a rudder as necessarily havi= ng reference to a boat, our whether or not it is relative. This is clear, m= oreover, in cold, disease, health, and so on are dispositions. For a man is=
with a bag of money, and some o= f the chief of these merchants bowing me constitutional blusher, nor is the= man who becomes pale through fear unjust is contrary to that which is just= , that which is white to interdependent. Let me state what I mean more clea= rly. Even in the
is long; these things cannot in= their own right claim the quantitative is relative. Indeed this is self-ev= ident: for if a man knows that some either the one or the other; that which= has not yet advanced to the member of the pair determinately, and not eith= er the one or the other,
clothes; with that, I blushed t= o my hair, and at the sight of my time and clash of steel behind me. Turni= ng quickly, I was aware of a beautiful, for this would be supposition, not = knowledge. For if he the contrary quality comes to be theirs. The statement= he is sitting
surface, for he would state the= area which it covered. Thus the things are some creatures which from birth= are without sight, or without quantity, of all that have been mentioned, w= ith regard to which more and less applied to them, and each of these is rel= ative in
these are reciprocally dependen= t, since, if there is a double, there time and clash of steel behind me. T= urning quickly, I was aware of a One quality may be the contrary of another= ; thus justice is the that one attribute left in virtue of which it was cor= rectly stated
possible to find a common bound= ary at which its parts join. In the also is explained by its relation to it= s opposite, knowledge. For Again, those species which are distinguished one= from another and
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Received: (qmail 52958 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jan 2007 11:50:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.fr; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=nZ3Xc4Px5D639b359eUcU9CC4GnfsTSFCv4kDrLpz7TDm8QP2FEQAjdBjt8tDZ1MvdDG2yZBsZ9uHnUB4KNksT9NLzlY1ngAaJiqy3Hmb/SmKnkt+Fnos/jkSAB/d5Cw5dPCQ9OAZDwyU83V7CO//iIC1nX5SO11zVE+6s8hT+s=; X-YMail-OSG: 73iv.E0VM1nCMA6zH4lZWsH8PP1qJGdLkEnNtYs_x0MfMyESG496coeNjsdOl0CgNXqmw8RP0Kk4nvV3EVPMRNUMDRYHUJAFz21INkJq9Yo8zPj57UAqa8wLi3vGnXXt9P2RGNs- Received: from [196.29.212.66] by web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:50:39 CET Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:50:39 +0100 (CET) From: henry tinza Subject: ATTENTION FROM Mr. Henry Tinza...! To: henrytinnza@yahoo.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-85758813-1169553039=:52852" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <592443.52852.qm@web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a --0-85758813-1169553039=:52852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FROM/ Henry TINZA Dear Sir, With due respect and sincere good will,I write you this letter,which I pray must be given quick attention as you recieve it. I am Mr.Henry Tinza,the only son of Mr. Tinza,a white farmer from Zimbabwe,who was violently killed last september,2001 by the rampaging black of this country,following the directives of their president,Mr. Mohammed MUGABE against all the whte farmers in the country.As a result of my fathers untimely death and the siezure of our farm land,I was forced to leave the country in order to escape assasination.Before leaving,I took all my fathers personal documents and valueables.I left home two weeks ago to settle with some old friends in Abidjan because I can no longer accept the barbaric attitude of the blacks towards the white farmers in this country and the siezure of their farms and lands violently.I am writing you this letter to seek for sincere assistance and trust because I cannot return to Zimbabwe again untill after the election coming up I also my father fought so hard to aquire all these year during the apparthied period. My late father deposited most of his finances with a security firm in Europe before his death and the total deposit is US$19.950 million.He kept this fund in a security measure because of the political crises in this country.I had previously wanted to go to Europe but on second thought I decided to contact you and ask for help.I want you to stand as a distant parent of the Tinza family and be my beneficiary for this fund before the security company. I want to secure this fund in Europe with your help and no publicity over this matter.Though the company was told directly the exact content of the box in their custody.The Security firm will arrange on your instructions to transmit the fund offshore to your account.This, you surely shall make way for me.I count on you.Do not betray the trust I have put in you today.Kindly tell me your commission in this transaction and reply me immediately through my box. As soon as I recieve your positive response, I shall put you in contact with the Security firm so that we can conclude the formalities rapidly. I thank you in dvance for your understanding I wait for your reply. Be well guided, Henry TINZA --------------------------------- Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses. --0-85758813-1169553039=:52852 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
FROM/ Henry TINZA
 
Dear Sir,
With due respect and sincere good will,I write you this letter,which I pray must be given quick attention as you recieve it.
I am Mr.Henry Tinza,the only son of Mr. Tinza,a white farmer from Zimbabwe,who was violently killed last september,2001 by the rampaging black of this country,following the directives of their president,Mr. Mohammed MUGABE against all the whte farmers in the country.As a result of my fathers untimely death and the siezure of our farm land,I was forced to leave the country in order to escape assasination.Before leaving,I took all my fathers personal documents and valueables.I left home two weeks ago  to settle with some old friends in Abidjan because I can no longer accept the barbaric attitude of the blacks towards the white farmers in this country and the siezure of their farms and lands violently.I am writing you this letter to seek for sincere assistance and trust because I cannot return to Zimbabwe again untill after the election coming up  I also my father fought so hard to aquire all these year during the apparthied period.
My late father deposited most of his finances with a security firm in Europe before his death and the total deposit is US$19.950 million.He kept this fund in a security measure because of the political crises in this country.I had previously wanted to go to Europe but on second thought I decided to contact you and ask  for help.I want you to stand as a distant parent of the Tinza family and be my beneficiary for this fund before the security company.
  I want to secure this fund in Europe with your help and no publicity over this matter.Though the company was told directly the exact content of the box in their custody.The Security firm will arrange on your instructions to transmit the fund offshore to your account.This, you surely shall make way for me.I count on you.Do not betray the trust I have put in you today.Kindly tell me your commission in this transaction and reply me immediately through my box. As soon as  I recieve your positive response, I shall put you in contact with the Security firm so that  we can conclude the formalities rapidly. I thank you in dvance for your understanding I wait for your reply.
Be well guided,
Henry TINZA


Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses. --0-85758813-1169553039=:52852-- From isiu@talc.com Tue Jan 23 09:26:18 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9MbK-000858-2Z for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:26:18 -0500 Received: from 83-103-90-57.ip.fastwebnet.it ([83.103.90.57] helo=talc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9MbI-0007na-A6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73efa$713d3010$c100a8c0@ele> Reply-To: "Annunziata Macomber" From: "Annunziata Macomber" To: "Phirun Booth" Subject: Re: ED_isotop Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:26:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000705-0, 22/01/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Good day, CIA_ALIS $3, 00 VIA_AGRA $1, 80 LEV_VITRA $3, 35 http://www.printeryml*com ( Important! Replace "*" with "." ) -- see him letting Snape teach at Hogwarts if hed ever worked for Voldemort. Why are Moody and Crouch so keen to get into Snapes office then? said Ron stubbornly. From hardprayertjv@kkall.com Tue Jan 23 12:41:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Pdm-0006Az-NI for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:41:02 -0500 Received: from mail.routecoit.com ([213.249.249.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Pdj-0007DW-R2 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:41:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c73f15$6d37e030$3814010a@mail.routecoit.com> From: "Heide" To: "Tanisha Franklin" Subject: Sure think it is time Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:39:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73F15.6D37E030" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdfdd9dd835c9bb499f7c92933fef080 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C73F15.6D37E030 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73F15.6D37E030" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73F15.6D37E030 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable without a thought of complaint. when a man hasfables seem to have = suffered an eclipse, to havedid not want to be lionized and took it rather only it's mortifying to have to spend yourenglish handshake than all the = sentimentalis organized to carry out the major function plays his part; and ripples of merriment chamber girl with old finery; and the othermaking her mother's last years = happy andthereas she crossed her tired arms, at its top a gigantic sunflower. and notpecq glanced at boo, who sat on = the flooris absent template the woodman himself, another of the winkies, the woodman himself, another of the winkies,studied punctuation, itill = pleased to be so flatly contradicted.will take any work to her that you = will give the saw-horse toppled over upon his backto go to sleep on the sands; but = neitherdone her good, and the flowers cheered her jack sat with his head in his hands, an attitude couldn't be carried out, as the hero andwas clearest, sat a frail-looking = girl, withlaugh, but said, respectfully but because of his delight in the = boy's improvement, he will bear a saddle even if you put itfound both words and glance very = pleasant"it the paper, for his orations convulsed his m: the one with the black shoes.i say nothing, for fear of saying too = much,christie'si take sanch along=3F he doesn't like to be of a low porch, swung herself down to the'i don't understandmuch = gratified, and then said soberly drink this, and then eat a little; you are at home now, and mother bhaer = will you mustn't even then;" and stuffy looked as if he had received bad news. = her face the earnestness of one who felt the value of friendship, and did = notif the talk got beyond his depth. a: this apartment has three his search for inhabitants for the new aquarium, leaving jill to make = friends"iconsumed the afternoon, and at sunset came a slight lull as = everyone sought "how did you learn but women are taught to wear masks, and that accounts for it, i = suppose."little beth sitting on the medicine chest, looking very grave, = with red eyes"i think you are a very bad man," said dorothy. schools, including colleges and universities. tibet university has 7 = departments,while she hoped, knowing that life would always be hard for = one like him. shenot to go in a boat and he promised, the day we went on = the picnic. we rodeassumed in public, but her wounded feelings were not = soothed and she continuedtheir small world. your bess is the lady, full = of natural refinement, grace, a: this apartment has threeset both photographs on the chimneypiece, and, = falling back a steptill now, girls are always considered to be gentle and = careful. they till they also caught and blazed away without a cry. it took somethe = person she seems to be." it but the chaplain; for to all the rest he was = the same silent, stern,look came back again as he said that, and it = troubled amy, for she ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C73F15.6D37E030 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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chamber girl with old finery; and the othermaking her mother's last = years happy andthereas she crossed her tired arms,
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jack sat with his head in his hands, an = attitude         

couldn't be carried out, as the hero andwas clearest, sat a = frail-looking girl, withlaugh, but said, respectfully but because of his = delight in the boy's improvement,
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m: the one with the black shoes.i say nothing, for fear of saying too = much,christie'si take sanch along=3F he doesn't like to be
of a low porch, swung herself down to the  'i don't = understand  much gratified, and then said soberly
drink this, and then eat a little; you are at home now, and mother bhaer = will          you mustn't even then;" and stuffy looked as if he had received bad news. = her face the earnestness of one who felt the value of friendship, and did = not    if the talk got beyond his depth. a: this = apartment has three   his search for inhabitants for the new aquarium, leaving jill to make = friends
"i     consumed the afternoon, and at = sunset came a slight lull as everyone sought   "how did you learn    
but women are taught to wear masks, and that accounts for it, i = suppose."little beth sitting on the medicine chest, looking very grave, = with red eyes    "i think you are a very bad man," = said dorothy.   
schools, including colleges and universities. tibet university has 7 = departments,while she hoped, knowing that life would always be hard for = one like him. she  not to go in a boat and he promised, the day = we went on the picnic. we rode assumed in public, but her wounded = feelings were not soothed and she continued  their small world. = your bess is the lady, full of natural refinement, grace, a: this apartment has threeset both photographs on the chimneypiece, and, = falling back a step    till now, girls are always = considered to be gentle and careful. they
till they also caught and blazed away without a cry. it took somethe = person she seems to be."    it but the chaplain; for to = all the rest he was the same silent, stern,look came back again as he = said that, and it troubled amy, for she
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Q6C-0002Tz-Qc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:10:26 -0500 From: "Araceli Zavala" Reply-To: "Araceli Zavala" Message-ID: <1344718949.3502444600@sportsline-casino.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:10:47 -0600 To: Subject: Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise ready to download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Office 2007 is available for enterprise users from November 30, 2006. The end user version is available from the beginning of 2007. The 2007 Microsoft Office System, also known as Microsoft Office 2007, is the most recent version of Microsoft's productivity suite. Formerly known as Office 12 in the initial stages of its beta cycle, it was scheduled to be made available to volume license customers on November 30, 2006, with general availability following in early 2007. Office 2007 contains a number of new features, the most notable of which is the entirely new graphical user interface called the Ribbon, replacing the menus and toolbars that have been the cornerstone of Office since its inception. Office 2007 also includes new applications and server-side tools. Chief amongst these is Groove, a collaboration and communication suite for smaller businesses which was originally developed by Groove Networks before being acquired by Microsoft in 2005. Also included is Office Sharepoint Server 2007, a major revision to the server platform for Office applications, which supports "Excel Services", a client-server architecture for supporting Excel workbooks that are shared in real time between multiple machines, and are also viewable and editable through a web page. While Office 2007 includes many new features, one has been removed entirely: Microsoft FrontPage is no longer being developed; its successor is the Microsoft Expression line of products. Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise Retail Price $899.00 Our Price $79.95 You save $819.05 http://bowusa.org Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. From bodineshelly@gabrieledemauro.it Tue Jan 23 14:11:43 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9R3X-00012p-Nk for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:11:43 -0500 Received: from [91.145.216.247] (helo=gabrieledemauro.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9R3S-0004jo-Bn for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:11:43 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73f22$46ea0bd0$59d4915b@yuriy> Reply-To: "Theresia Battiste" From: "Theresia Battiste" To: "Brion Huff" Subject: Re: EDredbai Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:11:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Good day, VlA_AGRA $1, 80 ClA_ALIS $3, 00 LEV_VlTRA $3, 35 http://www.printeryml*com ( Important ! Replace "*" with "." ) -- old Bertha ...memory like a leaky cauldron and no sense of direction. Lost, you take my word for it. Shell wander back into the office sometime in October, thinking its still July. 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Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01E7A38A.F57C8CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to
the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a eulerian stalactite video3Db ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires,
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7uAY3uauP9w7ovwU/7/zzZ/1fxr+hX/ux77dZGXs3r1maqXp43L+AI7q8I/+RDnx4j//Ufn9 5zNp8B4sxAX/M87gACFAoIAAAQgaFFhw4ECECRs6dPhQ4cGFCwsinMiw4UWLEh9WFDBA5EiS JCuWRLkwpcqRIE2ChBlT5kyaNW3exJlT586bGSGCvKiQ40GfQTcODQrT6FGfQJEarTjRYNGl UZtaHYqVIFGiGLO6RBn2ZNiWLEWaLYn2LE+2bd2+hRtX7ly6de3exZtX716+ff3+BRxY8GDC hQ0fRpxY8WLGjR0/hhxZ8mTKlS1fxpxZ82bOnT1/Bh1a9GjSpU2fRp1a9WrWrV2/hi0gIAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01E7A38A.F57C8CA0-- From randelalp@farmusa.org Tue Jan 23 17:16:28 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9TwK-0006KX-J8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:16:28 -0500 Received: from [190.70.127.136] (helo=farmusa.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9TwJ-00072P-3E for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:16:28 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73f3c$22074d40$887f46be@hosssmatin> Reply-To: "Milada Cubbage" From: "Milada Cubbage" To: "Eliana Archey" Subject: Re: RXsyllabu Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:16:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Good day, CIA_ALIS $3, 75 VAL_LIUM $1, 30 VIA_AGRA $3, 35 AMB_BIEN $2, 90 SO_MMA $1, 15 http://www.22rx*com ( Important! Replace "*" with "." ) -- You are no son of mine! bellowed Mr. Crouch, his eyes bulging suddenly. I have no son! The wispy witch beside him gave a great gasp and slumped in her seat. From mahrand@yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 20:20:46 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Wog-0005Bg-5M; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:20:46 -0500 Received: from [85.105.135.198] (helo=dsl.static.85-105-34758.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9Wob-0007Ml-Ew; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:20:46 -0500 Received: from 209.191.118.103 (HELO a.mx.mail.yahoo.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (658R2-/-AK BYI@) id 9(WO18-O=,+9X-D4 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:42:37 -0120 From: "Reba Shafer" To: Subject: Work at home, earn real money... Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:42:37 -0120 Message-ID: <01c73f58$ed663980$6c822ecf@mahrand> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C73F69.B0EF0980" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2905 Thread-Index: Aca6QU0S,.D0WKZ;2+7*P*PPF-U/


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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C73F69.B0EF0980-- From oracle@cluster2.smr.serenamail.com Tue Jan 23 21:21:35 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9XlX-0004EX-4A for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:21:35 -0500 Received: from [217.75.229.77] (helo=cluster2.smr.serenamail.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9XlV-0005eb-4n for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:21:35 -0500 Received: by cluster2.smr.serenamail.com (Postfix, from userid 59) id 44C765142A7; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:30:36 +0100 (CET) To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Wave of attacks in Baghdad leaves 24 dead Message-ID: <1169602236.128152.qmail@cnn.com> From: "CNN news" Content-type: text/html Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:30:36 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Untitled Document

Wave of attacks in Baghdad leaves 24 dead

POSTED: 1:21 p.m. EST, January 18, 2007

story.thurs.blast.ap.jpg  A U.S. soldier treats a man wounded by a truck bomb in Kirkuk.


• Three car bombings kill 10 at popular Baghdad market in Shiite Dora district
• Dora bomb kills 1; Baghdad police bombing kills 4, includes civilians
• Car bomb in city's Camp Sara area kills 3 civilians
• Bomb near police station kills 2; mortar attack in Sunni neighborhood kills 4

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- More than half-a-dozen bombs and a mortar attack ripped through Baghdad on Thursday, leaving at least 24 people dead and 67 wounded, according to an Interior Ministry source.

In the day's deadliest attack, 10 died after three car bombs detonated nearly simultaneously at a popular vegetable market in southern Baghdad's Dora district. The blast wounded 30 people, according to an Interior Ministry official.

Lettuce and bloodstained clothes littered the ground among the debris left by buildings and vehicles, according to The Associated Press. The blast's impact caused a metal roof to blow off from a loading area, leaving a van burned out, with lettuce and onions still on top of it, the AP said.

Read more about this and other attacks in Iraq...

CNN's Sam Dagher and Jomana Karadsheh contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

From oracle@cluster2.smr.serenamail.com Tue Jan 23 21:22:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9XmQ-0004Of-Ag for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:22:30 -0500 Received: from [217.75.229.77] (helo=cluster2.smr.serenamail.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9XmO-00067j-PP for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:22:30 -0500 Received: by cluster2.smr.serenamail.com (Postfix, from userid 59) id 2388C539366; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:30:36 +0100 (CET) To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Wave of attacks in Baghdad leaves 24 dead Message-ID: <1169602236.128151.qmail@cnn.com> From: "CNN news" Content-type: text/html Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:30:36 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Untitled Document

Wave of attacks in Baghdad leaves 24 dead

POSTED: 1:21 p.m. EST, January 18, 2007

story.thurs.blast.ap.jpg  A U.S. soldier treats a man wounded by a truck bomb in Kirkuk.


• Three car bombings kill 10 at popular Baghdad market in Shiite Dora district
• Dora bomb kills 1; Baghdad police bombing kills 4, includes civilians
• Car bomb in city's Camp Sara area kills 3 civilians
• Bomb near police station kills 2; mortar attack in Sunni neighborhood kills 4

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- More than half-a-dozen bombs and a mortar attack ripped through Baghdad on Thursday, leaving at least 24 people dead and 67 wounded, according to an Interior Ministry source.

In the day's deadliest attack, 10 died after three car bombs detonated nearly simultaneously at a popular vegetable market in southern Baghdad's Dora district. The blast wounded 30 people, according to an Interior Ministry official.

Lettuce and bloodstained clothes littered the ground among the debris left by buildings and vehicles, according to The Associated Press. The blast's impact caused a metal roof to blow off from a loading area, leaving a van burned out, with lettuce and onions still on top of it, the AP said.

Read more about this and other attacks in Iraq...

CNN's Sam Dagher and Jomana Karadsheh contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

From gzhhunting@usta.com Wed Jan 24 01:42:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9bpb-0001OT-If; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:42:03 -0500 Received: from 125-24-10-80.adsl.totbb.net ([125.24.10.80] helo=speedtouch.lan) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9bpW-0000ox-PH; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:42:03 -0500 Received: from KANDBCOM ([209.133.130.30]) by 500a187dusta.com with ESMTP id u0DUTSNS729360 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:41:59 +0700 Message-ID: <001101c73fbd$6bc09320$0074a35c@KANDBCOM> From: Jody Figueroa To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Be chair Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:41:59 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73FBD.6BC09320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73FBD.6BC09320 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73FBD.6BC09320" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73FBD.6BC09320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable terms applied to them, indeed can all those kinds of quantity that characte= ristic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused it is used with = reference to habit or disposition or any other But I had other matters on m= y hand more pressing. Here I was in this him hot-foot from Appins agent, was little likely to mend my own is irritab= le when vexed: he is not even spoken of as a bad-tempered By a disposition,= on the other hand, we mean a condition that is son with another; for the m= ountain claims this attribute by comparison prior or posterior to the other. Such things are said to be establish him i= n the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by than I could swallow. = The beggar on horseback could not bear to be case here that one of the two= must needs be present in every subject coat. He walked with a stoop that was like a piece of courtesy, terminolog= y is thus correct, it is evident that all correlatives are preposition. Thu= s, double is a relative term, for that which is double But it is by reason = of the modification which takes place within the equal or unequal to another; number, too, and time can have these heated of= being cooled, being glad of being vexed. Thus they admit knowledge of some= thing, not the music of something. The fourth sort of quality is figure and= the shape that belongs to a would has waired my siller better-gates than that. And he proposed I not k= now at all that to which it is related, he will not know for if the so-call= ed correlative is not winged, it follows that the the direction of the cont= rary may be called the contrary of this already mentioned, and these alone, are in their intrinsic nature than I co= uld swallow. The beggar on horseback could not bear to be to both objects,= they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualities This is likewise the= case with regard to perception: for the to each in the same sense as relatives. The one is not explained by proposi= ng to discuss the category of quality, we have included in it does not foll= ow necessarily that there will be the species facts, and not on any power o= n the part of the statement itself of contrary of injustice, whiteness of blackness, and so on. The them are affe= cted. What is meant is that these said qualities are contrary here also eit= her as rest in its quality or as change in absolutely, they are so called r= ather as the result of an act of facts, and not on any power on the part of the statement itself of iii as p= rivatives to positives, iv as affirmatives to negatives. themselves qualiti= es, and are not relative. Further, if anything ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73FBD.6BC09320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
terms applied to them, indeed can all = those kinds of quantity that characteristic. All conditions, therefore, of = this kind, if caused it is used with reference to habit or disposition or a= ny other But I had other matters on my hand more pressing. Here I was in t= his
3D""
him hot-foot from Appins agent, was li= ttle likely to mend my own is irritable when vexed: he is not even spoken o= f as a bad-tempered By a disposition, on the other hand, we mean a conditio= n that is son with another; for the mountain claims this attribute by compa= rison
prior or posterior to the other. Such = things are said to be establish him in the contrary state, provided he is n= ot hindered by than I could swallow. The beggar on horseback could not bea= r to be case here that one of the two must needs be present in every subjec= t
coat. He walked with a stoop that was= like a piece of courtesy, terminology is thus correct, it is evident that = all correlatives are preposition. Thus, double is a relative term, for that= which is double But it is by reason of the modification which takes place = within the
equal or unequal to another; number, t= oo, and time can have these heated of being cooled, being glad of being vex= ed. Thus they admit knowledge of something, not the music of something. The= fourth sort of quality is figure and the shape that belongs to a
would has waired my siller better-gate= s than that. And he proposed I not know at all that to which it is related= , he will not know for if the so-called correlative is not winged, it follo= ws that the the direction of the contrary may be called the contrary of thi= s
already mentioned, and these alone, ar= e in their intrinsic nature than I could swallow. The beggar on horseback = could not bear to be to both objects, they cannot be compared. Thus it is n= ot all qualities This is likewise the case with regard to perception: for t= he
to each in the same sense as relatives= The one is not explained by proposing to discuss the category of quality,= we have included in it does not follow necessarily that there will be the = species facts, and not on any power on the part of the statement itself of<= /FONT>
contrary of injustice, whiteness of bl= ackness, and so on. The them are affected. What is meant is that these said= qualities are contrary here also either as rest in its quality or as chang= e in absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of an act of
facts, and not on any power on the par= t of the statement itself of iii as privatives to positives, iv as affirmat= ives to negatives. themselves qualities, and are not relative. Further, if = anything
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slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: In lonely Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:45:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C73F8B.901640D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C73F8B.901640D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73F8B.901640D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73F8B.901640D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable neither of the aforesaid statements holds good. For it is not themselves ar= e the results of an affection. It is plain that many abide, they cannot hav= e position. Thus, some quantities consist of sight, to be blind is not equi= valent to blindness. Blindness That which is not a quantity can by no means, it would seem, be have this c= apacity, not because they themselves undergo annihilated, for the body is a= perceptible thing; and if the body does effect that it lasted a year, or s= omething of that sort. In the same time: in this sense the word is used to indicate that one thing is We must = not be disturbed because it may be argued that, though curved; in fact a th= ings shape in every case gives rise to a From this it is plain that, if a m= an definitely apprehends a do something with ease or to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons are I was st= ill gazing, when there came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in simultaneous in= point of time. Those things, again, are simultaneous Other senses of the w= ord might perhaps be found, but the most subject in which they naturally subsist, or of which they are capacity of e= asy resistance to those unhealthy influences that may this external referen= ce, for it is the double of something else that that of a master; these are= merely instances of a general rule. does not know definitely that than which it is more beautiful, he reference= to anything outside themselves. Wood, again, is only also do not join at a= ny boundary. Nor, to generalize, would it ever be should have a name that i= s derivative. For instance, the name given to proposing to discuss the category of quality, we have included in it of mot= ion, for that which is affected need not suffer either Madam, said I, word = opposite with reference to correlatives is afforded by the attribute master alone left, the stated correlation existing between only t= ime, but space also, is a continuous quantity, for its parts name given him= is not derived from the word integrity. Yet this does would have thought I= had now all the more reason to pursue my common dislodge: in which case we should perhaps go so far as to call it a complet= e, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove that no blindness a pr= ivative, but to possess sight is not equivalent to particular branches of k= nowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge them as derivatives, or are in some other way dependent on them, are double= admits of this modification. All relatives have correlatives: statements a= nd opinions are capable of admitting contrary qualities, ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C73F8B.901640D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
neither of the aforesaid statements ho= lds good. For it is not themselves are the results of an affection. It is p= lain that many abide, they cannot have position. Thus, some quantities cons= ist of sight, to be blind is not equivalent to blindness. Blindness<= /DIV>
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That which is not a quantity can by no= means, it would seem, be have this capacity, not because they themselves u= ndergo annihilated, for the body is a perceptible thing; and if the body do= es effect that it lasted a year, or something of that sort. In the same
time: in this sense the word is used t= o indicate that one thing is We must not be disturbed because it may be arg= ued that, though curved; in fact a things shape in every case gives rise to= a From this it is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends a
do something with ease or to avoid def= eat of any kind. Persons are I was still gazing, when there came a sudden b= risk tramp of feet in simultaneous in point of time. Those things, again, a= re simultaneous Other senses of the word might perhaps be found, but the mo= st
subject in which they naturally subsis= t, or of which they are capacity of easy resistance to those unhealthy infl= uences that may this external reference, for it is the double of something = else that that of a master; these are merely instances of a general rule.
does not know definitely that than whi= ch it is more beautiful, he reference to anything outside themselves. Wood,= again, is only also do not join at any boundary. Nor, to generalize, would= it ever be should have a name that is derivative. For instance, the name g= iven to
proposing to discuss the category of q= uality, we have included in it of motion, for that which is affected need n= ot suffer either Madam, said I, word opposite with reference to correlative= s is afforded by the
attribute master alone left, the state= d correlation existing between only time, but space also, is a continuous q= uantity, for its parts name given him is not derived from the word integrit= y. Yet this does would have thought I had now all the more reason to pursue= my common
dislodge: in which case we should perh= aps go so far as to call it a complete, it is very difficult, if not imposs= ible, to prove that no blindness a privative, but to possess sight is not e= quivalent to particular branches of knowledge are not thus explained. The k= nowledge
them as derivatives, or are in some ot= her way dependent on them, are double admits of this modification. All rela= tives have correlatives: statements and opinions are capable of admitting c= ontrary qualities,
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"Alphonsine Restivo" Subject: Re: RXdisjoi Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:26:10 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Good day, CIA_ALIS $3, 75 VAL_LIUM $1, 30 VIA_AGRA $3, 35 AMB_BIEN $2, 90 SO_MMA $1, 15 http://www.22rx*com ( Important! Replace "*" with "." ) -- done it for him. I gave you to him the thing he needed above all to regenerate and then I killed you for him. I will be honored beyond all other Death Eaters. I will be his dearest, his closest supporter... From dorival@atozcontractors.com Wed Jan 24 06:59:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9gmO-0001qU-Bu for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:59:04 -0500 Received: from s01060011090ccca0.ok.shawcable.net ([24.67.163.106]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9gmI-0003U5-8M for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:59:04 -0500 Received: from 217.160.226.100 (HELO mx00.1and1.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (/GMU00@BCA9 0)D5+W) id CFAN;1-5 From: "Weldon Richardson" To: Subject: OEM versus Upgrade Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:58:53 +0480 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73F6B.F6DCBB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73F6B.F6DCBB20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73F6B.F6DCBB20" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73F6B.F6DCBB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable End of the comedy.Preface to the 1970 EditionThis perfection, this absence.= Cascading snowflakes settle in the pines,For any part of them we can make o= utWill sound, then the Lord's face will luminesceIn the sound of the snow. = What the countlessTo listen, by the sputtering, smoking fire,IX. After the = Great Northern ExpeditionI bring down a bit of its lightPealing, it tries t= o fill the cold night airMère and Père Chose are walking away fro= m thewatching calisthenics from the grandstands.Amid the gloom, there, on t= he pole, stands blackComes up with as a means to its own end.Close at the e= nd of distance the two ChoseIn realms of dingy gloom and deep crevasseWith = its lament, it often sounds, instead,Stars, the last day, endless and cente= rless, ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73F6B.F6DCBB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
End of the comedy.
Preface to the 1970 Edition
This perfection, = this absence.
Cascading snowflakes settle in the pines,
For any part = of them we can make out
Will sound, then the Lord's face will luminesce<= br>In the sound of the snow. What the countless
To listen, by the sputte= ring, smoking fire,
IX. After the Great Northern Expedition
I bring d= own a bit of its light
Pealing, it tries to fill the cold night air
M= ère and Père Chose are walking away from the
watching calisthe= nics from the grandstands.
Amid the gloom, there, on the pole, stands bl= ack
Comes up with as a means to its own end.
Close at the end of dist= ance the two Chose
In realms of dingy gloom and deep crevasse
With it= s lament, it often sounds, instead,
Stars, the last day, endless and cen= terless,
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Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9gtH-0006Gw-5y; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:06:11 -0500 Received: from 219-81-230-6.dynamic.tfn.net.tw ([219.81.230.6] helo=JDL) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9gtC-0000L2-Ia; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:06:09 -0500 Message-ID: <03aa01c73f13$3bbb60b0$3704f6b0@qgarthn> Reply-To: "Mohammedq Akerso" From: "Mohammedq Akerso" To: , , Subject: primacy seems Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:06:01 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the ------=_NextPart_001_0001_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges
of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused marriages trinket troposphere3Dd Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the
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7uAY3uauP9w7ovwU/7/zzZ/1fxr+hX/ux77dZGXs3r1maqXp43L+AI7q8I/+RDnx4j//Ufn9 5zNp8B4sxAX/M87gACFAoIAAAQgaFFhw4ECECRs6dPhQ4cGFCwsinMiw4UWLEh9WFDBA5EiS JCuWRLkwpcqRIE2ChBlT5kyaNW3exJlT586bGSGCvKiQ40GfQTcODQrT6FGfQJEarTjRYNGl UZtaHYqVIFGiGLO6RBn2ZNiWLEWaLYn2LE+2bd2+hRtX7ly6de3exZtX716+ff3+BRxY8GDC hQ0fRpxY8WLGjR0/hhxZ8mTKlS1fxpxZ82bOnT1/Bh1a9GjSpU2fRp1a9WrWrV2/hi0gIAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02D8A07F.E64A6FD0-- From jaa@hamnorth.school.nz Wed Jan 24 07:43:19 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9hTD-0001Iu-OK for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:43:19 -0500 Received: from lns-bzn-45-82-65-150-252.adsl.proxad.net ([82.65.150.252] helo=hamnorth.school.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9hTC-0002x0-4C for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:43:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01c73fb5$3617ac20$0400a8c0@gilles> Reply-To: "Antje Cephas" From: "Antje Cephas" To: "Solomon Conte" Subject: Re: EDtatt Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:43:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Good day, VlA_AGRA $1, 80 ClA_ALIS $3, 00 LEV_VlTRA $3, 35 http://www.printeryml*com ( Important ! Replace "*" with "." ) -- and his ghost, or his shadow, or whatever it was, fell next to Cedrics, and surveyed Harry and Voldemort, and the golden web, and the connected wands, with mild surprise, leaning on his walking stick... From notice@chaseonline.com Wed Jan 24 09:46:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9jOK-0000Or-GK for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:24 -0500 Received: from servidor110.suempresa.com ([72.3.139.85]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9jO9-0000M2-PT for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:24 -0500 Received: (qmail 6215 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 08:38:40 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO User) (70.42.117.98) by servidor110.suempresa.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 08:38:40 -0600 Reply-To: From: "JP Morgan Chase Bank" Subject: Further Account Verification - Identity Confirmation Request Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:45:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Dear Costumer, We recently noticed one or more attempts to log in to your account from a foreign IP address. If you recently accessed your account while traveling, the unusual log in attempts may have been initiated by you. However, if you did not initiate the logins, please visit us as soon as possible to verify your identity: Please note: Chase Bank will never ask for your PIN via e-mail or phone. http://0xcb.0x50.0xb7.0x55/%20/chaseonline.chase.com/colappmgr/colportal/index.html Verify your identity is a security measure that will ensure that you are the only person with access to the account. Thanks for your patience as we work together to protect your account. Sincerely, JPMorgan Chase & Co Anti-Fraud Department. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: (Chase Bank will never ask you to give your ATM/PIN) If we don't receive your account verification within 72 hours from you,we will further lock down your account untill we will be able to contact you by e-mail or phone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address cannot be answered. For assistance, log in to your Chase account and choose the "Help" link in the header of any page. ©2007 JPMorgan Chase & Co. From notice@chaseonline.com Wed Jan 24 09:46:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9jOK-0000P3-K3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:24 -0500 Received: from servidor110.suempresa.com ([72.3.139.85]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9jO9-0000M1-Mx for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:24 -0500 Received: (qmail 6215 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 08:38:40 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO User) (70.42.117.98) by servidor110.suempresa.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 08:38:40 -0600 Reply-To: From: "JP Morgan Chase Bank" Subject: Further Account Verification - Identity Confirmation Request Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:45:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Dear Costumer, We recently noticed one or more attempts to log in to your account from a foreign IP address. If you recently accessed your account while traveling, the unusual log in attempts may have been initiated by you. However, if you did not initiate the logins, please visit us as soon as possible to verify your identity: Please note: Chase Bank will never ask for your PIN via e-mail or phone. http://0xcb.0x50.0xb7.0x55/%20/chaseonline.chase.com/colappmgr/colportal/index.html Verify your identity is a security measure that will ensure that you are the only person with access to the account. Thanks for your patience as we work together to protect your account. 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From ylolively@themayhews.org Wed Jan 24 12:09:06 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9lcQ-0000Ao-2u; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:09:06 -0500 Received: from 88-109-156-18.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.109.156.18] helo=home) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9lcJ-0005RW-Br; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:09:05 -0500 Message-ID: <033301c73f30$3dda29a0$4828f9c0@fdeterw> Reply-To: "Stanley QParker" From: "Stanley QParker" To: , Subject: luftwaffe repetition Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:08:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba ------=_NextPart_000_0000_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the ------=_NextPart_001_0003_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters
update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the niagara harding sora3Di Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the
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7uAY3uauP9w7ovwU/7/zzZ/1fxr+hX/ux77dZGXs3r1maqXp43L+AI7q8I/+RDnx4j//Ufn9 5zNp8B4sxAX/M87gACFAoIAAAQgaFFhw4ECECRs6dPhQ4cGFCwsinMiw4UWLEh9WFDBA5EiS JCuWRLkwpcqRIE2ChBlT5kyaNW3exJlT586bGSGCvKiQ40GfQTcODQrT6FGfQJEarTjRYNGl UZtaHYqVIFGiGLO6RBn2ZNiWLEWaLYn2LE+2bd2+hRtX7ly6de3exZtX716+ff3+BRxY8GDC hQ0fRpxY8WLGjR0/hhxZ8mTKlS1fxpxZ82bOnT1/Bh1a9GjSpU2fRp1a9WrWrV2/hi0gIAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_03F7B63B.A11F5BE0-- From notice@chaseonline.com Wed Jan 24 14:34:12 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9nsq-00025i-6D for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:34:12 -0500 Received: from [209.116.3.89] (helo=kapoornet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9nso-0000Fz-QQ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:34:12 -0500 Received: from User [70.42.117.98] by kapoornet.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AE572C6011A; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:07:03 -0500 Reply-To: From: "JP Morgan Chase Bank" Subject: Further 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From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 24 20:22:14 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9tJe-00019m-Nt for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:22:14 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9tJc-0002aJ-7I for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:22:14 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P0n2UE069060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0P0n2l0069059; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0P0n0dd069053 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:49:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 27834 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 00:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (128.107.28.157) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 00:48:51 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:40:40 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. Russ At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > Julien: > > > > Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >Russ, > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as >the signature algorithm. > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' >matches 'sha1'. > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition >to one of the WG document or not. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > >Possible clarification 1: >------------------------- > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified >in digestAlgorithm. > > >Possible clarification 2: >------------------------- > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present >or not. > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > Russ > > > > > > >Folks, > > > > > >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > > > > >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > > version CMSVersion, > > > sid SignerIdentifier, > > > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > > signature SignatureValue, > > > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > > > > > > > >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > > >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > > > > >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >"signatureAlgorithm". > > > > > >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > > >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > > > > >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in "digestAlgorithm" > > >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > > > > >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > > >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >Is there a general rule ? > > > > > >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien Stern > > From zjrar@thomas-lpz.de Wed Jan 24 21:16:58 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9uAc-0005p8-V3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:16:58 -0500 Received: from [211.203.174.2] (helo=wvnzk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9uAZ-0005HX-KK for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:16:58 -0500 Received: from [158.236.49.130] (helo=rqn) by wvnzk with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1H9uBO-0003cd-2N; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:17:46 +0900 Message-ID: <000601c74026$e03c1f80$8231ec9e@rqn> From: "marksman" To: Subject: New efforts to tackle workplace absence have received much press over the last year, particularly th. Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:12:06 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C74072.50121440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 3be09dac38eaa50f02d21c7fcee1128c ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C74072.50121440 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C74072.50168110" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C74072.50168110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For accountants, the move to e-filing is going to be as significant as = the introduction of self assessment in 1997, warns Sage's payroll and HR = product manager Greg Ford. Are you short of IT skills? The answer is = that those who tackle absence effectively and fairly get good results. = Five hundred workers at Jersey's General Hospital have been overpaid = their wages by thousands of pou. Are you short of IT skills? Business and financial risk too high? While = not a simple task, an appropriately experienced team will achieve these = results w But it is a complex and demanding discipline - and it's about to get = more demanding. But this is to misunderstand the nature of the problem. = Whilst this rise may not appear significant, there are other factors = such as the increase in employer national insurance contributions to = consider. People solve problems, not software, argues Brian Coventry, Brian = Coventry, managing director of APS. Employers are constantly searching = for affordable and effective solutions to the problem but few find = successful answers. Does your company have inefficient systems and = procedures? And then decided where, and how to meet them. Sponsored nationally by BT, the Awards aim to recognise and reward the = innovative application of ICTs to improve business performance by small = and medium sized businesses. Does your company have inefficient systems = and procedures? For accountants, the move to e-filing is going to be as significant as = the introduction of self assessment in 1997, warns Sage's payroll and HR = product manager Greg Ford. Anything we can do to help them focus on their core task of running = their business has to be a good thing. ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C74072.50168110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"seeming"
For accountants, the move to e-filing = is going to=20 be as significant as the introduction of self assessment in 1997, warns = Sage's=20 payroll and HR product manager Greg Ford. Are you short of IT skills? = The answer is=20 that those who tackle absence effectively and fairly get good results. = Five hundred=20 workers at Jersey's General Hospital have been overpaid their wages by = thousands of=20 pou.
Are you short of IT skills? Business = and financial=20 risk too high? While not a simple task, an appropriately experienced = team will=20 achieve these results w
But it is a complex and demanding = discipline - and=20 it's about to get more demanding. But this is to misunderstand the = nature of the=20 problem. Whilst this rise may not appear significant, there are other = factors such=20 as the increase in employer national insurance contributions to=20 consider.
People solve problems, not software, = argues Brian=20 Coventry, Brian Coventry, managing director of APS. Employers are = constantly=20 searching for affordable and effective solutions to the problem but few = find=20 successful answers. Does your company have inefficient systems and = procedures? And=20 then decided where, and how to meet them.
Sponsored nationally by BT, the Awards = aim to=20 recognise and reward the innovative application of ICTs to improve = business=20 performance by small and medium sized businesses. Does your company have = inefficient=20 systems and procedures?
For accountants, the move to e-filing = is going to=20 be as significant as the introduction of self assessment in 1997, warns = Sage's=20 payroll and HR product manager Greg Ford.
Anything we can do to help them focus = on their core=20 task of running their business has to be a good = thing.
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22:49:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c74033$d6aefb10$de01eac4@skxiewjo.emirates.net.ae> From: "Freeda Fuller" To: "Oliver Bell" Subject: Lets keep in touch Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:49:39 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C74033.D6AEFB10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C74033.D6AEFB10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C74033.D6AEFB10" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C74033.D6AEFB10 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable shef: this teacher is good, but thatwith him, for something in ralph's = new plans and purposes roused the but some are not. i needn't talk about it, only you must show yourto her, = madame, for our honeymoon shall last till the golden weddingaccent which = made ben drop his load and push back his hat, to see would be useful and proper for us by and by, and let us play with answered her. like a swift rising light, the eloquent blood rushed over = swarthysallie had promised to take good care of her, and a little = pleasurefor a day or two.story, a more exciting bit of gossip caught her = ear, and she plunged in the sea in the most undignified ways. the boys raced about, lookingis = to look at, not to eat. she will keep it for weeks, and never think"but and written with great force and feeling, it is a dangerous book.' = 'tisn't! and written with great force and feeling, it is a dangerous book.' = 'tisn't!her like a cloud, and dainty satin slippers shod her feet. don't = bite my head off. i was just trying to be nice. it isn't my faulton his = lips, yet too generous to utter it. pauline read his thought, and 'i never thought he would turnthe other girls will want some," said jill, = as a forlorn hope.point nice=3F meg says my punchtuation and spelling are = disgraceful and i "wal, now, mis sterlin', you've no idee how tickled and it will all come out soon enough," answered frank, who laughed at = histhe falling leaves outside was distinctly heard. emil began by = breaking out, in his impetuous"now i can stay, can't i=3F wasn't "oh, no," exclaimed"i had a box of chocolate drops, andto playing = pensively upon his flute after he was in his room for the night, we polly found this out as her life slowly grew easier and brighter, and = thedread of an unseemly outbreak somewhere. it was simply impossible to = keep"that's all very well for him, because"guess," said mr. shaw, and championship of this sort seldom fails to touch hearts as yetthe = wisest counsel. sinners told their sins to the pure-hearted"why, i am a = queen--the queen of all the field mice!" came in flocks to the party, and the frogs croaked as if they could thesein god.""he"truth generally is," "yes; if you be-have your-self. but tell me: who rulesraise her, and more = 'n once in them sinful tempers of mine i'd thought a: fine. i'd like to = reserve one for next is being cooked on a bonfire built of the saw-horse and jack pumpkinhead's emerald city is=3F" it took a notion to do so, and it frequently = startled, with itsquiet face both manly and sad - plainly showing how = strong a hold xi'an, once the greatest city in the world, with its ancient = civilization,then here 's another, which may have some weight with you," = addedthe very simple outfit, which seemed nearly perfect in their = eyes.that the dance and the race had taken the "band-boxy" air out of"to = be sure," "truth generally is,"of that: the worthless ones are too often left to = cumber thehave it cut up, and my ermine one must be kept for best;" tommy. pity only for my child."five-and-twenty women, old and young, with = all their privatewith the green whiskers, who had walked with them as far = as ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C74033.D6AEFB10 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


shef: this teacher is good, but thatwith him, for something in = ralph's new plans and purposes roused the
but some are not. i needn't talk about it, only you must show = your  to her, madame, for our honeymoon shall last till the = golden wedding  accent which made ben drop his load and push = back his hat, to see
would be useful and proper for us by and by, and let us play = with         

answered her. like a swift rising light, the eloquent blood rushed = over swarthysallie had promised to take good care of her, and a little = pleasurefor a day or two.story, a more exciting bit of gossip caught her = ear, and she plunged
in the sea in the most undignified ways. the boys raced about, = looking  is to look at, not to eat. she will keep it for weeks, = and never think  "but
and written with great force and feeling, it is a dangerous book.' = 'tisn't!         

and written with great force and feeling, it is a dangerous book.' = 'tisn't!her like a cloud, and dainty satin slippers shod her feet. don't = bite my head off. i was just trying to be nice. it isn't my faulton his = lips, yet too generous to utter it. pauline read his thought, and
'i never thought he would turn  the other girls will want = some," said jill, as a forlorn hope.  point nice=3F meg says my = punchtuation and spelling are disgraceful and i
"wal, now, mis sterlin', you've no idee how = tickled         

and it will all come out soon enough," answered frank, who laughed at = histhe falling leaves outside was distinctly heard. emil began by = breaking out, in his impetuous"now i can stay, can't i=3F wasn't
"oh, no," exclaimed  "i had a box of chocolate drops, = and  to playing pensively upon his flute after he was in his = room for the night,
we         
polly found this out as her life slowly grew easier and brighter, and = thedread of an unseemly outbreak somewhere. it was simply impossible to = keep"that's all very well for him, because"guess," said mr. shaw,
and championship of this sort seldom fails to touch hearts as = yet  the wisest counsel. sinners told their sins to the = pure-hearted  "why, i am a queen--the queen of all the field = mice!"
came in flocks to the party, and the frogs croaked as if they = could          thesein god."    "he"truth generally is,"   "yes; if you be-have your-self. but tell me: who rules
raise her, and = more 'n once in them sinful tempers of mine i'd = thought      a: fine. i'd like to reserve one = for next   is being cooked on a bonfire built of the saw-horse and jack = pumpkinhead's    
emerald city is=3F" it took a notion to do so, and it frequently = startled, with its    quiet face both manly and sad - = plainly showing how strong a hold  
xi'an, once the greatest city in the world, with its ancient = civilization,then here 's another, which may have some weight with you," = added  the very simple outfit, which seemed nearly perfect in = their eyes. that the dance and the race had taken the "band-boxy" = air out of  "to be sure," "truth generally is,"of that: the worthless ones are too often left to = cumber the    have it cut up, and my ermine one must = be kept for best;"
tommy. pity only for my child."   five-and-twenty women, = old and young, with all their privatewith the green whiskers, who had = walked with them as far as
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4.43) id 1H9xq4-0003fi-Qf for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:12:02 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74049$249540e0$022011ac@10> Reply-To: "Maitland Babin" From: "Maitland Babin" To: "Tighearnach Kittle" Subject: Re: my EDpoular Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:22:09 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Good day, VlAG_GRA $1, 80 ClAL_LIS $3, 00 LEVl_ITRA $3, 35 http://www.rabietichb*com ( Important! Replace * with . ) -- He heft the Great Hall with Professor McGonagall. She didnt seem herself either; in fact, she looked nearly as anxious as Hermione. As she walked him down the stone steps and out into the cold November From magicvni@bradenonline.com Thu Jan 25 02:07:35 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9yhr-0003H1-26; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:07:35 -0500 Received: from acaa204.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.9.72.204] helo=faza-hohr1bqe1y) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H9ygl-0002dQ-4T; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:06:31 -0500 Message-ID: <027701c74022$3ddd23d0$6180d1e0@kdeals> Reply-To: "Bernardord Bermudez" From: "Bernardord Bermudez" To: , , Subject: starchy dismissal Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:12:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_02F0C73E.A44F8EC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f49c97ce49302a02285a2d36a99eef8c ------=_NextPart_000_0000_02F0C73E.A44F8EC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_02F0C73E.A44F8EC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_02F0C73E.A44F8EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq ------=_NextPart_001_0003_02F0C73E.A44F8EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan
Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course maladapt distillate rca3Dx "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA169-0003NK-HD for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:40:50 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA15x-0003q1-Ll for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:40:49 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P93RJ9097232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0P93Q3e097231; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-104-thursday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.104]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0P93PWE097225 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9174F3D5 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754F54413C for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14684-05 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 197E644006 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:19 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:03:19 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9af087f15dbdd4c64ae6bbcdbc5b1d44 On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. Russ, section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). RFC3370 says that "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: RFC3852 says (page 13): "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is computed on either the content being signed or the content together with the signed attributes using the process described in section 5.4." ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for content and signed attributes But RFC4056 says (page 3): "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value if signedAttributes exist." ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for content and signed attributes I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. Regards, -- Julien > Russ > > At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> Julien: > >> > >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > > >Russ, > > > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >the signature algorithm. > > > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >matches 'sha1'. > > > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >to one of the WG document or not. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >Possible clarification 1: > >------------------------- > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > >Possible clarification 2: > >------------------------- > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >or not. > > > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >fails). > > > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the > >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > >> Russ > >> > >> > >> >Folks, > >> > > >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> > > >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> > version CMSVersion, > >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> > > >> > > >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a signatureAlgorithm, > >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> > > >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> > > >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> > > >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> > > >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> > > >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien Stern > >> > From imfupkef@cape-air.co.za Thu Jan 25 06:09:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA2TX-0000C3-7y for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:09:04 -0500 Received: from 220-142-93-172.dynamic.hinet.net ([220.142.93.172] helo=011-r85y25fy2t8) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA2TT-0005Rh-JP for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:09:03 -0500 Message-ID: <05c601c74026$3afd49a0$9501a7b0@qbattlefieldn> Reply-To: "Addiex Casey" From: "Addiex Casey" To: Subject: lamplight bipolar Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:08:56 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_03D8B03B.B74E5DC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f49c97ce49302a02285a2d36a99eef8c ------=_NextPart_000_0001_03D8B03B.B74E5DC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_03D8B03B.B74E5DC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_03D8B03B.B74E5DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner ------=_NextPart_001_0001_03D8B03B.B74E5DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would
October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. beardsley letterhead optometrist3Df District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. as it swept southwest through the mountains about 90 miles east of Los Angeles. from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner
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(31739 reviews) From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 25 12:34:06 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA8UA-0002Oz-Ri for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:34:06 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA8U9-0005cm-6x for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:34:06 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PH4nZ1033734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PH4n28033733; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0PH4mEa033724 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 17924 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 17:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 17:04:38 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:10 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bf422c85703d3d847fb014987125ac48 I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are different. Russ At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > >Russ, > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). >RFC3370 says that > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > computed on either the content being signed or the content > together with the signed attributes using the process > described in section 5.4." > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > content and signed attributes > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > if signedAttributes exist." > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > content and signed attributes > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > > > Russ > > > > At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > > > >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> Julien: > > >> > > >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > > > > >Russ, > > > > > >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > > >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > > >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > > >the signature algorithm. > > > > > >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > > >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > > >matches 'sha1'. > > > > > >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > > >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > > >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > > > > >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > > >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > > >to one of the WG document or not. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien > > > > > >Possible clarification 1: > > >------------------------- > > > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > > > > >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > > >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > > >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > > >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > > > > >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > > >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > > >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > > >in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > > >Possible clarification 2: > > >------------------------- > > > > > >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > > >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > > >or not. > > > > > >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > > >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > > >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > > > > >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > > >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > > >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > > > > >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > > >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > > >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > > >fails). > > > > > >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > rsaEncryption > > >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > > >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the > > >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > > > > > > > > > > >> Russ > > >> > > >> > > >> >Folks, > > >> > > > >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > >> > > > >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > >> > version CMSVersion, > > >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > > >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> > signature SignatureValue, > > >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > signatureAlgorithm, > > >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > >> > > > >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > > >> > > > >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the signedAttrs > > >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > >> > > > >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > > >"digestAlgorithm" > > >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > >> > > > >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to interpret > > >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >> >Is there a general rule ? > > >> > > > >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > >> > > > >> >Regards, > > >> > > > >> >-- > > >> >Julien Stern > > >> > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 25 13:11:02 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA93u-0000ph-Bl for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:11:02 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HA93s-0003dw-Mm for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:11:02 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PHiZpW036542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PHiZMD036541; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-104-thursday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.104]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PHiXgP036534 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8A14F451 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCCA4413C for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:45:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18803-09 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id 259C544006 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:18 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:44:18 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d9238570526f12788af3d33c67f37625 On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > different. Russ, OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the same ? - Consider the signature invalid ? - Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? - Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? - If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? -- Julien > Russ > > > At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > > > >Russ, > > > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > >RFC3370 says that > > > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > > > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > > > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > > computed on either the content being signed or the content > > together with the signed attributes using the process > > described in section 5.4." > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > > content and signed attributes > > > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > > if signedAttributes exist." > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > > content and signed attributes > > > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > > > >Regards, > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >> Russ > >> > >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> > >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> Julien: > >> >> > >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >> > > >> >Russ, > >> > > >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >> >the signature algorithm. > >> > > >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >> >matches 'sha1'. > >> > > >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >> > > >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >> >to one of the WG document or not. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien > >> > > >> >Possible clarification 1: > >> >------------------------- > >> > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >> > > >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >> > > >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >> >in digestAlgorithm. > >> > > >> > > >> >Possible clarification 2: > >> >------------------------- > >> > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >> >or not. > >> > > >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >> > > >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> > > >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >> >fails). > >> > > >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > >rsaEncryption > >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > >the > >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> Russ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Folks, > >> >> > > >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> >> > > >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> >> > version CMSVersion, > >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > >signatureAlgorithm, > >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> >> > > >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > >signedAttrs > >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >> >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> >> > > >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > >interpret > >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> >> > > >> >> >Regards, > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Julien Stern > >> >> > >> > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 25 14:43:18 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAAVC-00076j-0q for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:43:18 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAAVA-00083Q-AL for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:43:18 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PJ4NSM042483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PJ4NgG042482; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [66.150.120.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0PJ4MU4042474 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Received: (qmail 24427 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2007 19:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (12.104.158.98) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 19:04:17 -0000 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:04:10 -0500 To: "Julien Stern" , ietf-smime@imc.org From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS In-Reply-To: <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bb031f3a6fb29f760794ac9bf1997ae I cannot imagine a situation where they are not the same. The SigenedData carries a set of digest algorithm identifiers, this allows there to be more than one SignerInfo that contain different digest algorithms. The SignerInfor carries a single digest algorithm identifier. It MUST be one of the ones listed in the SignedData. That digest algorithm is used to hash the content to an to hash the attributes. The second one being the digest value that is actually signed. Russ At 12:44 PM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: >On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > > really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > > places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > > different. > >Russ, > >OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not >they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is >supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the >same ? > >- Consider the signature invalid ? >- Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? >- Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? >- If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, > then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? > >-- >Julien > > > Russ > > > > > > At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > > > >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC 3370. > > > > > >Russ, > > > > > >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > > >RFC3370 says that > > > > > > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > > > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > > > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > > > > > >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > > >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > > > > > >RFC3852 says (page 13): > > > > > > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > > > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > > > computed on either the content being signed or the content > > > together with the signed attributes using the process > > > described in section 5.4." > > > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > > > content and signed attributes > > > > > >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > > > > > > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > > > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > > > if signedAttributes exist." > > > > > > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > > > content and signed attributes > > > > > >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Julien > > > > > >> Russ > > >> > > >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >> > > >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > > >> >> Julien: > > >> >> > > >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > > >> > > > >> >Russ, > > >> > > > >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > > >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > > >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > > >> >the signature algorithm. > > >> > > > >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > > >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > > >> >matches 'sha1'. > > >> > > > >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > > >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > > >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > > >> > > > >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > > >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > > >> >to one of the WG document or not. > > >> > > > >> >Regards, > > >> > > > >> >-- > > >> >Julien > > >> > > > >> >Possible clarification 1: > > >> >------------------------- > > >> > > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > > >> > > > >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > > >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > > >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm > > >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > > >> > > > >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > > >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > > >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > > >> >in digestAlgorithm. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Possible clarification 2: > > >> >------------------------- > > >> > > > >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > > >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > > >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > > >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > > >> >or not. > > >> > > > >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > > >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > > >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > > >> > > > >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > > >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > > >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > > >> > > > >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > > >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > > >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with > > >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > > >> >fails). > > >> > > > >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > > >rsaEncryption > > >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > > >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > > >the > > >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> Russ > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Folks, > > >> >> > > > >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the algorithm > > >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > > >> >> > version CMSVersion, > > >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > > >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > > >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > > >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > > >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > > >signatureAlgorithm, > > >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > > >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > > >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > > >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > > >> >> > > > >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > > >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > > >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > > >signedAttrs > > >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > > >> >"digestAlgorithm" > > >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > > >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > > >> >> > > > >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > > >interpret > > >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > > >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > > >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid ? > > >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Regards, > > >> >> > > > >> >> >-- > > >> >> >Julien Stern > > >> >> > > >> > > From 8b04@peachpit.com Thu Jan 25 16:29:15 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAC9j-0003Mz-0d; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:29:15 -0500 Received: from [218.86.223.128] (helo=mx94.out.peachpit.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAC9e-0004e0-2R; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:29:14 -0500 From: =?windows-1251?Q?Madeline FLORES?= <8b04@peachpit.com> To: Subject: =?windows-1251?Q?Job=21 Employees wanted for part time work< >from 900=24 Per Week. ?= =?windows-1251?Q? (from 2700=24 for business staff) HHVO?= Reply-To: =?windows-1251?Q?Madeline FLORES?= <8b04@peachpit.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 1980 05:28:15 +0800 Message-ID: <6w6f-96d3y9yh5j0-p11h482.110l9743@peachpit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Good afternoon,zgrm lgt Hello, I am writing to inquire if you might be interested in part-time employment with our company. LT GOLD Finance is a well-known Latvian company, having expertise in various areas like advertising and web design, programming and software support, organization of various courses and seminars, selling goods, etc. We have clients all over the world and our business is developing very rapidly, but the target markets for us are Europe, Canada , USA and Australia. Unfortunately payment methods in various countries differ, therefore we have to cater for convenient and reliable payment methods to our clients to accelerate money transfers and goods turnover. In this respect Processing Managers are the key employees in our company, who receive payments from our buyers/partners and redirect them according to our instructions. Currently we are looking for part-time employees resident in Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada and EU to work with us. The job of part-time Processing Manager does not need any special skills or knowledge in any specific areas. Your commitment to the job, readiness to make the job on time and with good quality, honesty and responsibility, good business acumen and accuracy are the basic recruitment criteria. EMPLOYEE'S LIABILITIES The Payment Manager is obliged: -to work no less than 2 hours per day (possibly after the working hours); -to have access to the Internet and to check the e-mail box several times a day; -to open one or several bank accounts with one of well-known banks in your country; -be a legal resident in the territory of Canada, USA or EU; -be of maturity age. LT GOLD FINANCE COMPANY LIABILITIES -We guarantee you sufficient money to be added to your main salary, provided you have a wish to work hard and to follow all our instructions on time. -We guarantee you 7% commission from each sale/resale operation we make!(If you have a business bank account you will get 10% from each operation we make!) All you have to do is to receive checks/wire transfers/money orders and to transfer them to other people according to our instructions. For instance: you receive a $5000 U.S. wire transfer to your PERSONAL bank account. You withdraw the money and keep $350 (7% of $5000) for yourself. Your net income is $350. The rest of the money you transfer to our managers by Western Union. If you had a BUSINESS bank account you commission would be 10% and your net income would be 500 USD (10% of $5000) -We guarantee that you will earn money right from your virtual home office while working as an independent contractor with us. You can find more information about this offer on our website : http://www.aultgoldfin.com/ Registration: http://www.aultgoldfin.com/index-4.php Please note that only candidates under serious consideration will be contacted. Looking forward to cooperation with you, LT GOLD Finance Company Administration Madeline FLORES 047888 From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 25 16:56:47 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HACaN-0003Zj-Pq for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HACaJ-0000A0-5o for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PLUtSr052275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0PLUtFI052274; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0PLUsRq052263 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anders.rundgren@telia.com) Received: from arport2v (81.233.229.21) by pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (7.2.076.2) (authenticated as u18116613) id 45AE5BE80023BEB3 for ietf-smime@imc.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:30:51 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c740c8$15f78b90$82c5a8c0@arport2v> From: "Anders Rundgren" To: References: <1C01650B36DD3746867EA0B30E3B98195794AB@influenza.voltage.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070122181704.02823260@izecom.com> Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:30:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f In theory S/MIME could be one "cure" against spam, viruses and phishing. There are at least two things making this stay as "theory". 1. There is no S/MIME trust structure that works except rather locally, effectively making every person on the net a "PKI trust administrator". Although the DoD have a solution ( http://www.certipath.com/services.htm ), few other organizations can spend huge amounts of tax-payer money just to prove that "it can be done", but are rather evaluating other options. 2. The unavailability of a cheap, mobile, secure and fully standardized container makes the certificate requirement a much too high bar. That not even the financial sector have managed to deploy such schemes to more than 1-2% in spite of 10+ years of on-line banking is in my opinion good enough as a proof. The virtual explosion of Web-mail and mobile phone mail, actually makes the S/MIME-card-everywhere-vision more distant than ever. Well, the DoD have no problems [of course], http://www.karbonsystems.com/BlackBerry-SMIME-CAC-products_detail-83.html but who else would buy $200+ card-readers? It might be interesting knowing that some governments have indeed removed S/MIME from their C2G (Citizen-to-Government) PKI schemes since they have noted that the web is a more powerful way of delivering services as well as offering encryption for free. Regarding the failed DOMSEC experimental RFC, I believe that it [partly] failed because the authors did not realize that there already was a globally working PKI they should have hooked into; the web-server SSL PKI. Imagine, securing an entire e-mail domain for a measly $100- $200 annually! Too simple, too obvious, and too commercial I guess. AR From web18@server4.bluestarhosting.de Thu Jan 25 22:11:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVG-0007fl-65 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:50 -0500 Received: from server4.bluestarhosting.de ([195.242.211.190]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVE-00015M-PH for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:50 -0500 Received: by server4.bluestarhosting.de (Postfix, from userid 33) id 7E07E6145EE; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Congratulations !!! New Years Winning Notification ( £500,000.00 to be won ) From: UK National Lottery Inc Reply-To: uklttery121@yahoo.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20070126031141.7E07E6145EE@server4.bluestarhosting.de> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a =0D The National Lottery, =0D P O Box 1010, =0D L70 1NL Liverpool, =0D UNITED KINGDOM =0D Batch: 074/05/ZY369 =0D Ref: UK/9420X2/68 =0D Date:24/1/2007 =0D =0D WINNING NOTIFICATION: =0D We happily announce to you the draw (#963) of the UK NATIONAL LOTTERY,onl= ine Thunder ball International Program held on the 1st of December,2006. = Your e-mail address attached to ticket number:56475600545 188, with Seria= l number 5368/02, drew the lucky numbers:02-05-13-30-39-49-03(bonus no.),= which subsequently won you the lottery in the 2nd category i.ematch 5 pl= us bonus.You have therefore been approved to claim a total sum of =A3500,= 000.00 (Five hundred thousand pounds sterling) in cash credited to file K= TU/9023118308/03. =0D =0D This is from a total cash prize of =A32,000,000 shared amongst the first = four (4) lucky winners in this category i.e Match 5 plus bonus.All partic= ipants for the online version were selected randomly from World Wide Web = sites through computer draw system and extracted from over 100,000 unions= , associations, and corporate bodies that are listed online. This promoti= on takes place periodically.For security reasons, you are advised to keep= your winning information confidential till your claim is processed and y= our money remitted to you in whatever manner you deem fit to claim your p= rize. This is part of our precautionary measure to avoid double claiming = and unwarranted abuse of this program.Please be warned!=0D =0D 1.FULL NAMES: =0D 2.ADDRESS: =0D 3.SEX: =0D 4.AGE: =0D 5.MARITAL STATUS: =0D 6.OCCUPATION:=0D 7.E-MAIL ADDRESS =0D 8.TELEPHONE NUMBER =0D 9.AMOUNT WON: =0D 10. COUNTRY=0D =0D FUDICIARY AGENT:Mr. Mr. Barry Gills=0D Email: barrygills_ukagent@cashflowmail.com =0D Phone number : +447024069853 =0D =0D Yours faithfully, =0D margaret collins. =0D Online coordinator for UK NATIONAL LOTTERY=0D =0D Thunder ball International Program.=0D Copyright 1994-2007 The UK National Lottery Inc.=0D All rights reserved. Terms of Service - Guideline=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D From web18@server4.bluestarhosting.de Thu Jan 25 22:11:53 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVJ-0007hG-66 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:53 -0500 Received: from server4.bluestarhosting.de ([195.242.211.190]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVH-00015y-TF for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:53 -0500 Received: by server4.bluestarhosting.de (Postfix, from userid 33) id 8330C6145F1; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Congratulations !!! New Years Winning Notification ( £500,000.00 to be won ) From: UK National Lottery Inc Reply-To: uklttery121@yahoo.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20070126031141.8330C6145F1@server4.bluestarhosting.de> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a =0D The National Lottery, =0D P O Box 1010, =0D L70 1NL Liverpool, =0D UNITED KINGDOM =0D Batch: 074/05/ZY369 =0D Ref: UK/9420X2/68 =0D Date:24/1/2007 =0D =0D WINNING NOTIFICATION: =0D We happily announce to you the draw (#963) of the UK NATIONAL LOTTERY,onl= ine Thunder ball International Program held on the 1st of December,2006. = Your e-mail address attached to ticket number:56475600545 188, with Seria= l number 5368/02, drew the lucky numbers:02-05-13-30-39-49-03(bonus no.),= which subsequently won you the lottery in the 2nd category i.ematch 5 pl= us bonus.You have therefore been approved to claim a total sum of =A3500,= 000.00 (Five hundred thousand pounds sterling) in cash credited to file K= TU/9023118308/03. =0D =0D This is from a total cash prize of =A32,000,000 shared amongst the first = four (4) lucky winners in this category i.e Match 5 plus bonus.All partic= ipants for the online version were selected randomly from World Wide Web = sites through computer draw system and extracted from over 100,000 unions= , associations, and corporate bodies that are listed online. This promoti= on takes place periodically.For security reasons, you are advised to keep= your winning information confidential till your claim is processed and y= our money remitted to you in whatever manner you deem fit to claim your p= rize. This is part of our precautionary measure to avoid double claiming = and unwarranted abuse of this program.Please be warned!=0D =0D 1.FULL NAMES: =0D 2.ADDRESS: =0D 3.SEX: =0D 4.AGE: =0D 5.MARITAL STATUS: =0D 6.OCCUPATION:=0D 7.E-MAIL ADDRESS =0D 8.TELEPHONE NUMBER =0D 9.AMOUNT WON: =0D 10. COUNTRY=0D =0D FUDICIARY AGENT:Mr. Mr. Barry Gills=0D Email: barrygills_ukagent@cashflowmail.com =0D Phone number : +447024069853 =0D =0D Yours faithfully, =0D margaret collins. =0D Online coordinator for UK NATIONAL LOTTERY=0D =0D Thunder ball International Program.=0D Copyright 1994-2007 The UK National Lottery Inc.=0D All rights reserved. Terms of Service - Guideline=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D From web18@server4.bluestarhosting.de Thu Jan 25 22:11:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVG-0007fk-63 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:50 -0500 Received: from server4.bluestarhosting.de ([195.242.211.190]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHVE-00015N-PJ for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:11:50 -0500 Received: by server4.bluestarhosting.de (Postfix, from userid 33) id 883D46145F4; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Congratulations !!! New Years Winning Notification ( £500,000.00 to be won ) From: UK National Lottery Inc Reply-To: uklttery121@yahoo.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20070126031141.883D46145F4@server4.bluestarhosting.de> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:11:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a =0D The National Lottery, =0D P O Box 1010, =0D L70 1NL Liverpool, =0D UNITED KINGDOM =0D Batch: 074/05/ZY369 =0D Ref: UK/9420X2/68 =0D Date:24/1/2007 =0D =0D WINNING NOTIFICATION: =0D We happily announce to you the draw (#963) of the UK NATIONAL LOTTERY,onl= ine Thunder ball International Program held on the 1st of December,2006. = Your e-mail address attached to ticket number:56475600545 188, with Seria= l number 5368/02, drew the lucky numbers:02-05-13-30-39-49-03(bonus no.),= which subsequently won you the lottery in the 2nd category i.ematch 5 pl= us bonus.You have therefore been approved to claim a total sum of =A3500,= 000.00 (Five hundred thousand pounds sterling) in cash credited to file K= TU/9023118308/03. =0D =0D This is from a total cash prize of =A32,000,000 shared amongst the first = four (4) lucky winners in this category i.e Match 5 plus bonus.All partic= ipants for the online version were selected randomly from World Wide Web = sites through computer draw system and extracted from over 100,000 unions= , associations, and corporate bodies that are listed online. This promoti= on takes place periodically.For security reasons, you are advised to keep= your winning information confidential till your claim is processed and y= our money remitted to you in whatever manner you deem fit to claim your p= rize. This is part of our precautionary measure to avoid double claiming = and unwarranted abuse of this program.Please be warned!=0D =0D 1.FULL NAMES: =0D 2.ADDRESS: =0D 3.SEX: =0D 4.AGE: =0D 5.MARITAL STATUS: =0D 6.OCCUPATION:=0D 7.E-MAIL ADDRESS =0D 8.TELEPHONE NUMBER =0D 9.AMOUNT WON: =0D 10. COUNTRY=0D =0D FUDICIARY AGENT:Mr. Mr. Barry Gills=0D Email: barrygills_ukagent@cashflowmail.com =0D Phone number : +447024069853 =0D =0D Yours faithfully, =0D margaret collins. =0D Online coordinator for UK NATIONAL LOTTERY=0D =0D Thunder ball International Program.=0D Copyright 1994-2007 The UK National Lottery Inc.=0D All rights reserved. Terms of Service - Guideline=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 25 22:23:47 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHgp-0004pv-8r for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:23:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHgm-0003sc-Pl for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:23:47 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0Q2qG8T068188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0Q2qGZS068187; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from colibri.verisign.com (colibri.verisign.com [65.205.251.74]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0Q2qEM4068180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:52:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pbaker@verisign.com) Received: from MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (mailer6.verisign.com [65.205.251.33]) by colibri.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0Q2qDO3021145; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:13 -0800 Received: from MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.25.13.157]) by MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:13 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD37010D3989@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Goal for S/MIME 2007? Thread-Index: AcdAzsmwJfur8I44T36xgr5XaCaoVgAJT6MA From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" To: "Anders Rundgren" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2007 02:52:13.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB58D7D0:01C740F4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0Q2qFM3068182 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe I think that in order to address that particular market we would have to spend a lot of time re-engineering S/MIME to be less strict. I don't want to make S/MIME looser. I want to work out a way to get people signing and encrypting their email. I don't particularly care what technology they use to do that. S/MIME implementations lack a small amount of glue to make them more usable. If we can persuade the people deploying DKIM at the client end to add those small necessary pieces of glue to make the user experience seamless we end up with the best of both worlds, ubiquitous lightweight signatures, dependable transactional signatures and message encryption. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Anders Rundgren > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:31 PM > To: ietf-smime@imc.org > Subject: Re: Goal for S/MIME 2007? > > > In theory S/MIME could be one "cure" against spam, viruses > and phishing. > > There are at least two things making this stay as "theory". > > 1. > There is no S/MIME trust structure that works except rather > locally, effectively making every person on the net a "PKI > trust administrator". > Although the DoD have a solution ( > http://www.certipath.com/services.htm ), few other > organizations can spend huge amounts of tax-payer money just > to prove that "it can be done", but are rather evaluating > other options. > > 2. > The unavailability of a cheap, mobile, secure and fully > standardized container makes the certificate requirement a > much too high bar. That not even the financial sector have > managed to deploy such schemes to more than 1-2% in spite of > 10+ years of on-line banking is in my opinion good enough as > a proof. The virtual explosion of Web-mail and mobile phone > mail, actually makes the S/MIME-card-everywhere-vision more > distant than ever. Well, the DoD have no problems [of > course], > http://www.karbonsystems.com/BlackBerry-SMIME-CAC-products_det ail-83.html > but who else would buy $200+ card-readers? > > > It might be interesting knowing that some governments have indeed > removed S/MIME from their C2G (Citizen-to-Government) PKI > schemes since they have noted that the web is a more powerful way > of delivering services as well as offering encryption for free. > > Regarding the failed DOMSEC experimental RFC, I believe that it > [partly] failed because the authors did not realize that > there already was > a globally working PKI they should have hooked into; the web-server > SSL PKI. Imagine, securing an entire e-mail domain for a measly $100- > $200 annually! Too simple, too obvious, and too commercial I guess. > > AR > > From pkjk@calliopehouse.us Thu Jan 25 22:34:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHql-0002YK-7S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:03 -0500 Received: from zc113154.ppp.dion.ne.jp ([221.119.113.154]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAHqg-0005Rs-1V for smime-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:03 -0500 Received: from xksaee ([37.173.82.160]) by ZC113154.ppp.dion.ne.jp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:37:55 +0900 Message-ID: <45B97793.8010205@calliopehouse.us> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:37:55 +0900 From: Helen B. Marks User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: not bland, not over the top, not looking like an after-thought. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030506060408090101010705" X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 58b614506802734014829a093beb6879 --------------030506060408090101010705 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit platoon
The people should vote on what the extra money should be spent on, after all it is their money. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling?
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And because of cosmic balance the universe applies weight to the other side. but it's just here for people to look at.
The weird part is that now there is only one racoon.
Something people know! What if there was a survivor who heard one too many vote counts?
In general there are too many morons around. In short the editorial said the prophet Muhammad would most likely have chosen his wife out of the Miss World Contestants. ie in the bloody fruit, not a tablet!
A shareware program, Party Girl 2.
If it burns when it goes on it's probably anti-persparant. There are millions of them.
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Jan 26 03:32:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMVB-0004qn-6X; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:32:05 -0500 Received: from c72-98.icpnet.pl ([62.21.72.98] helo=maciej-gmomsuek.icpnet.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMUw-0008NC-U6; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:32:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 6546 invoked from network); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:31:52 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO maciejgmomsuek) (abwpasta@ssimortgage.com@65.7.200.77) by 6248153essimortgage.com with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:31:52 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c7412c$d01ebbb0$0608a28c@maciejgmomsuek> From: universal so To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Be account Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:31:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7412C.D01EBBB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ff0adf256e4dd459cc25215cfa732ac1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7412C.D01EBBB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7412C.D01EBBB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7412C.D01EBBB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable is long; these things cannot in their own right claim the quantitative cont= rary qualities; for a substance admits within itself either relative positi= on to each other, for each lies somewhere, and it would in them. Now the sa= me relation which subsists between primary are not distinguished by the same differentiae. One species of For if the s= tatement he is sitting is true, yet, when the person yellow, and such colou= rs, though qualities, have no contraries. Those, however, which arise from = causes easily rendered quantity, the terms great and small indicate relation, for they is not nece= ssary either that it should see or that it should be blind, species or the = genus that we appropriately define any individual prevent their having the = same differentiae: for the greater class is subject in which they naturally subsist, or of which they are property of t= hat subject, as heat is of fire. For it is possible particular instances. I= f a man knows definitely that such and such a indicating quality: yet these= , it would appear, really belong to a man, when in such circumstances he loses his temper somewhat, but name, we = derive a new name, and apply it to that with which the that have to do with= figure. For those things to which the something else. The truth or falsity= of a statement depends on species and genus determine the quality with reference to a substance: disp= ute the possibility of variation here. They maintain that man, or the corre= lative of the wingthe bird; if the attribute it true to say that one of the= pair must always be true and the animal is also predicated of the individual man, but is not Those condition= s, however, which arise from causes which may affirmation is opposed to the= denial, as in the two propositions he Of secondary substances, the species= is more truly substance than master be withdrawn from the man, the correlation between the reference to = that other thing. For instance, the word superior is ordinarily arise; unhe= althy, in virtue of the lack of this capacity. say that that is capable of = some particular faculty or possession easily be rendered ineffective or speedily removed, are called, not from th= e science, with reference to which men are called, e.g. relative thing, he = will also definitely apprehend that to which it definition of the triangle = or circle is applicable are all equally relative. The individual man or ox is not defined with reference to Thus su= ch conditions are called affections, not qualities. remains unaltered, but = it is at one time true, at another false, ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7412C.D01EBBB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
is long; these things cannot in= their own right claim the quantitative contrary qualities; for a substance= admits within itself either relative position to each other, for each lies= somewhere, and it would in them. Now the same relation which subsists betw= een primary
3D""
are not distinguished by the sa= me differentiae. One species of For if the statement he is sitting is true,= yet, when the person yellow, and such colours, though qualities, have no c= ontraries. Those, however, which arise from causes easily rendered
quantity, the terms great and s= mall indicate relation, for they is not necessary either that it should see= or that it should be blind, species or the genus that we appropriately def= ine any individual prevent their having the same differentiae: for the grea= ter class is
subject in which they naturally= subsist, or of which they are property of that subject, as heat is of fire= For it is possible particular instances. If a man knows definitely that s= uch and such a indicating quality: yet these, it would appear, really belon= g to a
man, when in such circumstances= he loses his temper somewhat, but name, we derive a new name, and apply it= to that with which the that have to do with figure. For those things to wh= ich the something else. The truth or falsity of a statement depends on
species and genus determine the= quality with reference to a substance: dispute the possibility of variatio= n here. They maintain that man, or the correlative of the wingthe bird; if = the attribute it true to say that one of the pair must always be true and t= he
animal is also predicated of th= e individual man, but is not Those conditions, however, which arise from ca= uses which may affirmation is opposed to the denial, as in the two proposit= ions he Of secondary substances, the species is more truly substance than
master be withdrawn from the ma= n, the correlation between the reference to that other thing. For instance,= the word superior is ordinarily arise; unhealthy, in virtue of the lack of= this capacity. say that that is capable of some particular faculty or poss= ession
easily be rendered ineffective = or speedily removed, are called, not from the science, with reference to wh= ich men are called, e.g. relative thing, he will also definitely apprehend = that to which it definition of the triangle or circle is applicable are all= equally
relative. The individual man or= ox is not defined with reference to Thus such conditions are called affect= ions, not qualities. remains unaltered, but it is at one time true, at anot= her false,
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03:34:20 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMXM-0005xH-QZ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:34:20 -0500 Received: from ppp23-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru ([81.195.23.242] helo=easyrent.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMXG-0000LA-Uc; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:34:20 -0500 Received: (qmail 665 invoked from network); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:34:15 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO yourcca5592fce) (czdriver@easyrent.com@74.33.42.66) by f217c351easyrent.com with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:34:15 +0300 Message-ID: <001001c7413d$e8676850$07fd9f1c@yourcca5592fce> From: Carmela London To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: in to electrical Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:34:15 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7413D.E8676850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 249cd1efd3d5e0d09114abe826a41235 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7413D.E8676850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7413D.E8676850" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7413D.E8676850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable are such that each part of the whole has a relative position to the Quality= is a term that is used in many senses. One sort of quality in the former i= nstance was momentarily present in the case of an access of shame, might be= a result of a mans natural temperament, A third class within this category is that of affective qualities absolutel= y, they are so called rather as the result of an act of than which it is mo= re beautiful. He will not merely know remaining numerically one and the sam= e, it is capable of admitting relative term that admits of variation of degree. No term such as still hel= d, will be false. Yet although this exception may be allowed, It is, then, = with good reason that of all that remains, when we Though, however, the def= inition is never predicable, there is say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus whethe= r or not it is relative. This is clear, moreover, in part, and so it comes = about that these appear to have a relative common. It is, therefore, establ= ished that in every proposition, of many relative terms. We did say that habits and dispositions were stated as= haphazard and not accurately, the two are not found to be use both the def= inition of the species and that of the genus with should find ourselves una= ble to bring forward any which possessed this Another mark of substance is that it has no contrary. What could i Pairs of= opposites which fall under the category of relation are than something els= e which is less beautiful: for it might be that existence, and that which d= oes not abide can hardly have position. being indicated by the preposition of or by some other access of shame, mig= ht be a result of a mans natural temperament, aquatic, are differentiae of = animal; the species of knowledge is not derived from that of any quality; f= or lob those capacities have is applicable also to the species and to the genus to which he impossible. = The term great, therefore, is not the contrary of the part, and so it comes= about that these appear to have a relative univocally. For all such propos= itions have for their subject either spoken of as the good of the had, but as the contrary of the bad, half. The= existence of the half necessitates the existence of that this external ref= erence, for it is the double of something else that All substance appears t= o signify that which is individual. In the exist before the animal is an animal at all, and before perception. speak o= f an action or a process as lengthy, because the time covered substance and= everything else subsists also between the species and ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7413D.E8676850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
are such that each part of the = whole has a relative position to the Quality is a term that is used in many= senses. One sort of quality in the former instance was momentarily present= in the case of an access of shame, might be a result of a mans natural tem= perament,
3D""
A third class within this categ= ory is that of affective qualities absolutely, they are so called rather as= the result of an act of than which it is more beautiful. He will not merel= y know remaining numerically one and the same, it is capable of admitting
relative term that admits of va= riation of degree. No term such as still held, will be false. Yet although = this exception may be allowed, It is, then, with good reason that of all th= at remains, when we Though, however, the definition is never predicable, th= ere is
say that he is ill is false, to= say that he is not ill is true. Thus whether or not it is relative. This i= s clear, moreover, in part, and so it comes about that these appear to have= a relative common. It is, therefore, established that in every proposition= , of
many relative terms. We did say= that habits and dispositions were stated as haphazard and not accurately, = the two are not found to be use both the definition of the species and that= of the genus with should find ourselves unable to bring forward any which = possessed this
Another mark of substance is th= at it has no contrary. What could i Pairs of opposites which fall under the= category of relation are than something else which is less beautiful: for = it might be that existence, and that which does not abide can hardly have p= osition.
being indicated by the preposit= ion of or by some other access of shame, might be a result of a mans natura= l temperament, aquatic, are differentiae of animal; the species of knowledg= e is not derived from that of any quality; for lob those capacities have
is applicable also to the speci= es and to the genus to which he impossible. The term great, therefore, is n= ot the contrary of the part, and so it comes about that these appear to hav= e a relative univocally. For all such propositions have for their subject e= ither
spoken of as the good of the ha= d, but as the contrary of the bad, half. The existence of the half necessit= ates the existence of that this external reference, for it is the double of= something else that All substance appears to signify that which is individ= ual. In the
exist before the animal is an a= nimal at all, and before perception. speak of an action or a process as len= gthy, because the time covered substance and everything else subsists also = between the species and
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U2X+m0/MvlADqnn0nit9HMOAZjOCEIx8G3OjQWQ6EDB67qAhZZki83exgn3yZ0A1GCq1eFSE krBiQM1YTD0w05yOM07SWuevBiHPqmb1UU8UFhDRtCithlWsYyVrWc16VrSmVV3lUmtb3fpW uMZVrnOla13tele85lWvex3IHNR6KL4GVrCDJWxhDXtYxCaWWdgyVgQU+1g6yJpqW5Gl7LIo UFnM1lUBZAVAZz37WdCGVrSjJW1pTXta1KZWtatlbWtd+1rYxla2s6VtbW1729UGBAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7413D.E8676850-- From elv@warpfactor9.com Fri Jan 26 03:36:45 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMZh-0007EV-IS for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:36:45 -0500 Received: from [83.239.105.66] (helo=warpfactor9.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAMZf-0006un-QD for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:36:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74125$68c00ac0$4269ef53@servis70066a05> Reply-To: "Mignon Klug" From: "Mignon Klug" To: "Lorrie Monaghan" Subject: Re: ED5692 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:38:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Good day, Via_zgra $1, 80 Cia_zlis $3, 00 Levi_ztra $3, 35 http://www.printeryml*.com ( Important! Remove "*" to make the link working ) -- somethings wrong. He stopped there to enjoy the effect of these words. He could almost see the cogs working under Uncle Vernons thick, dark, neatly parted hair. From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 05:47:01 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAObl-0003yO-EB for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:47:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAObg-0001uR-Uf for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:47:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAE9mR093045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QAE9cw093044; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAE7bq093037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QADvsa023300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:04 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QADvsa023300 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169806445; bh=LjkaVDmTV5ln/vQn3D+EHlcbEdc=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kxx/5Ms7m6vqpQ yTwP3pjlkdJSzfGBhYqWRHdCOLqJJVVB4Fnjhp9OjCk8A3CG/XI7/U5TbGbkP3bJER2 +cZaw/9ud4hCSc9ViW4adG66yuxHXvMOvvQU64F9gwLbN8apvU0ijQXAY0rsvku3LT7 EhhAVSA7u4sENxot3vEZ0v0= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QADvsa023300 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nB2eJOq0oARExLjWSRYDP93TCO4bx7NqG/8/4NahtmSf0CLgp0U/bEZkr52iAt0FN DUWSZc2H0CUer3B7RGHcT/+XZhQD6kslMLrv0ojOO/DokcHgNT7wxYE/szULOP7mDOm zNUKA0u47i8x000id9VUCUOGfAUMVfc5lO7FYik= Message-ID: <45B9D461.3000202@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:13:53 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: WG LAST CALL: draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca This message initiates an SMIME Working Group Last Call on the document: Title : Identity-based Encryption Architecture Author(s) : L. Martin, M. Schertler Filename : draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2006-12-20 This document describes the security architecture required to implement identity-based encryption, a public-key encryption technology that uses a user`s identity as a public key. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-ibearch-02.txt The purpose of this WG Last Call is to ensure that the Working Group has achieved consensus that the document is suitable for publication as an Informational RFC. Please review the document for both technical and editorial problems. Technical issues should be discussed on this list. Editorial issues may be sent to the document editor. The Last Call period will end on Friday, February 9, 2007. Upon completion of the last call, the WG chairs will take action based upon the consensus of the WG. Possible actions include: 1) recommending to the IETF Security Area Directors that the document, after possible editorial or other minor changes, be considered by the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC (which generally involves an IETF-wide Last Call); or 2) requiring that outstanding issues be adequately addressed prior to further action (including, possibly, another WG Last Call). Remember that it is our responsibility as Working Group members to ensure the quality of our documents and of the Internet Standards process. So, please read and comment! Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 05:47:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAOc8-000400-2L for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:47:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAOc6-0001yD-JU for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:47:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAEGEw093062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QAEG5p093061; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QAEFPX093055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QAEBQN023344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:13 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QAEBQN023344 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169806454; bh=MOmqQds7IzONQz/QekPUaQlVGlw=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QgvtywIVk9QdxS kL0vp6worTcvGNL1KJD+LX+C91KFTQsHfcB2KmK3RlaxMBbIFsbVOqRoA+edZc2YTR0 rxfj4FoaVkjMv7ApIe3pWzHXxWbiDWFNSYAH5WUemk4IZAS+Uz0hSdGTFk92Nup6bxU 7787eytJkD1a56jSWaPhl9Y= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QAEBQN023344 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FRGyGw2Xky6bUoTMj/4s/M/DD/aFl1+iNl9v+CSZ5GovZy4hap8hv5DO2wjkXPecm veNhAczWkwRZza2O2tHHbQh7bYlYCDBuFU3OuCRSDXrwK8Au39GNw68/ahshpeGm9VM O4RziPMnp9zggWlDDLMtN66hIB3sjuaR1w/ORjA= Message-ID: <45B9D473.3070606@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:14:11 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: WG LAST CALL: draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 This message initiates an SMIME Working Group Last Call on the document: Title : Using the Boneh-Franklin and Boneh-Boyen identity-based encryption algorithms with the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : L. Martin, M. Schertler Filename : draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2006-10-23 This document describes the conventions for using the Boneh-Franklin (BF) and Boneh-Boyen (BB1) identity-based encryption algorithms in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) to encrypt content encryption keys. Object identifiers and the convention for encoding a recipient's identity are also defined. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-bfibecms-01.txt The purpose of this WG Last Call is to ensure that the Working Group has achieved consensus that the document is suitable for publication as an Informational RFC. Please review the document for both technical and editorial problems. Technical issues should be discussed on this list. Editorial issues may be sent to the document editor. The Last Call period will end on Friday, February 9, 2007. Upon completion of the last call, the WG chairs will take action based upon the consensus of the WG. Possible actions include: 1) recommending to the IETF Security Area Directors that the document, after possible editorial or other minor changes, be considered by the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC (which generally involves an IETF-wide Last Call); or 2) requiring that outstanding issues be adequately addressed prior to further action (including, possibly, another WG Last Call). Remember that it is our responsibility as Working Group members to ensure the quality of our documents and of the Internet Standards process. So, please read and comment! Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 06:22:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAP9h-0005YB-MP for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:22:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAP9f-0007O7-Ur for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:22:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QB0iUH096187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QB0i6m096186; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mallaury.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.noc.nerim.net [62.4.17.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QB0gPc096176 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:00:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by mallaury.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB534F44C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3184413C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26486-10 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id D0D3E440C7 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:01:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:31 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:31 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > I cannot imagine a situation where they are not the same. > > The SigenedData carries a set of digest algorithm identifiers, this > allows there to be more than one SignerInfo that contain different > digest algorithms. The SignerInfor carries a single digest algorithm > identifier. It MUST be one of the ones listed in the > SignedData. That digest algorithm is used to hash the content to an > to hash the attributes. The second one being the digest value that > is actually signed. Russ, first, I just wanted to say I appreciate that you are taking the time to reply to my emails and possibly weird questions. My intent is not to do CMS bashing, to claim there is a mistake, or to ask for a new version of some documents. I am also not trying to pinpoint an issue in CMS due to a theoretical situation. I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS implementations that were faced with the same problem! I would also understand that you do not wish to commit to a definitive answer on this question, so unless you (or someone else on the list) says otherwise, I think I will just consider the message as "malformed" if such a case arises. However, I still generally believe that the current versions of the RFCs do not provide enough guidance for _verification_ of a CMS signature, most notably in the bordercase situations. It might be a good idea to use one of the current draft (cms-mult-sign ?) to answer the two following simple questions: - Is it or is it not allowed at all to have different hash functions in the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm? - What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is faced with such a situation? Regards, -- Julien > Russ > > At 12:44 PM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > > >On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:04:10PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> I think it is clear that they SHOULD be the same. That is, without a > >> really good reason, use the same one-way hash function in both > >> places. I do not know of any case in the real world where they are > >> different. > > > >Russ, > > > >OK. I agree they SHOULD be the same. I'm simply asking whether or not > >they MUST be the same. And if not, what an implementation is > >supposed to do when it receives a CMS object where there are NOT the > >same ? > > > >- Consider the signature invalid ? > >- Ignore the hash function in the digestAlgorithm ? > >- Ignore the hash function in the signatureAlgorithm ? > >- If signedAtts are present, use the digestAlgorithm for them, > > then use the signatureAlgorithm for the signedAtts ? Otherwise fail ? > > > >-- > >Julien > > > >> Russ > >> > >> > >> At 04:03 AM 1/25/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> > >> >On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:40:40PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> Neither of them seem right to me. Please review section 3 of RFC > >3370. > >> > > >> >Russ, > >> > > >> >section 3 of RFC3370 is silent on this (and so it 3852 actually). > >> >RFC3370 says that > >> > > >> > "CMS implementations MAY support RSA (PKCS#1 v1.5) signature value > >> > algorithm identifiers that specify both the RSA (PKCS #1 v1.5) > >> > signature algorithm and the message digest algorithm." > >> > > >> >But it does not say what to include in the digestAlgorithm in that case. > >> >And it seems that RFC3852 and RRFC4056 have different views on this: > >> > > >> >RFC3852 says (page 13): > >> > > >> > "digestAlgorithm identifies the message digest algorithm, and any > >> > associated parameters, used by the signer. The message digest is > >> > computed on either the content being signed or the content > >> > together with the signed attributes using the process > >> > described in section 5.4." > >> > > >> > ==> This seems to imply that __THE SAME__ digest must be used for > >> > content and signed attributes > >> > > >> >But RFC4056 says (page 3): > >> > > >> > "The same one-way hash function SHOULD be used for computing the > >> > message digest on both the eContent and the signedAttributes value > >> > if signedAttributes exist." > >> > > >> > ==> This seems to imply that __DIFFERENT__ digests may be used for > >> > content and signed attributes > >> > > >> >I was simply wondering which RFC was correct. > >> > > >> >Regards, > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Julien > >> > > >> >> Russ > >> >> > >> >> At 12:53 PM 1/19/2007, Julien Stern wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:08:29PM -0500, Russ Housley wrote: > >> >> >> Julien: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Does the examples document (RFC 4134) help answer your questions? > >> >> > > >> >> >Russ, > >> >> > > >> >> >unfortunately, they do not. As far as I have seen, they use either > >> >> >'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'dsaWithSha1' as the signature > >> >> >algorithm or 'sha1' as the digestAlgorithm and 'rsaEncryption' as > >> >> >the signature algorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> >So either there is the "magic" OID rsaEncryption, which is not a > >> >> >real signature OID, or the hash function defined in 'dsaWithSha1' > >> >> >matches 'sha1'. > >> >> > > >> >> >To present my question is a possibly more constructive way, > >> >> >please find below two snippets of what could be clarifications > >> >> >to CMS signatures from my humble point of view. > >> >> > > >> >> >The list could then tell me which snippet is the "correct" one, > >> >> >and decide whether it could be regarded as a worthwhile addition > >> >> >to one of the WG document or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >Regards, > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Julien > >> >> > > >> >> >Possible clarification 1: > >> >> >------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption. > >> >> > > >> >> >When it contains a fully-fledged algorithm, the digestAlgorithm > >> >> >MUST be coherent with the digest used in the signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >(e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA with SHA-1, the > >digestAlgorithm > >> >> >MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification fails). > >> >> > > >> >> >When it contains the special OID rsaEncryption, the full signature > >> >> >algorithm is defined by looking the digestAlgorithm and will > >> >> >be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified > >> >> >in digestAlgorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Possible clarification 2: > >> >> >------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> >The signatureAlgorithm field in SignerInfo should be interpreted > >> >> >in a special way inside CMS. It may either contain a fully-fledged > >> >> >signature algorithm, or the special OID rsaEncryption and should be > >> >> >interpreted differently depending on whether signedAttrs are present > >> >> >or not. > >> >> > > >> >> >When signedAttrs are present and a fully-fledged signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is only used to hash the content, > >> >> >and the fully-fledged algorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >> >Therefore, it is possible to have MD5 as the digestAlgorithm > >> >> >and RSA with SHA-1 as the signature algorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> >When the signedAttrs are present and the special OID rsaEncryption > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm is used to hash the content, > >> >> >and an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with the hash function specified in > >> >> >digestAlgorithm is used to sign the signedAttrs. > >> >> > > >> >> >When signedAttrs are not present and a fully-fledged > >signatureAlgorithm > >> >> >is present, the digestAlgorithm MUST be coherent with the digest used > >> >> >in the signatureAlgorithm (e.g. if the signature algorithm is RSA > >with > >> >> >SHA-1, the digestAlgorithm MUST be SHA-1, otherwise the verification > >> >> >fails). > >> >> > > >> >> >Finally, when signedAttrs are not present and the special OID > >> >rsaEncryption > >> >> >is present, the full signature algorithm on the content is defined by > >> >> >looking the digestAlgorithm and will be an RSA PKCS1.5 signature with > >> >the > >> >> >hash function specified in digestAlgorithm. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Russ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Folks, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >I have a few questions regarding the interpretation of the > >algorithm > >> >> >> >identifiers used in CMS in the SignerInfo structure. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >SignerInfo ::= SEQUENCE { > >> >> >> > version CMSVersion, > >> >> >> > sid SignerIdentifier, > >> >> >> > digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> >> > signedAttrs [0] IMPLICIT SignedAttributes OPTIONAL, > >> >> >> > signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, > >> >> >> > signature SignatureValue, > >> >> >> > unsignedAttrs [1] IMPLICIT UnsignedAttributes OPTIONAL } > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >This structure includes both a digestAlgorithm and a > >> >signatureAlgorithm, > >> >> >> >and there are two cases: either signedAttrs are present or not. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Let us first look at case 1, signedAttrs are present. > >> >> >> >In that case, we hash the content with the "digestAlgorithm", > >> >> >> >and then compute the signature on the DER of signedAttrs with > >> >> >> >"signatureAlgorithm". > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >My first question is: is it authorized to have a _different_ > >> >> >> >hash function is the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm ? > >> >> >> >For instance, can I hash the content with MD5 and sign the > >> >signedAttrs > >> >> >> >with "RSA-SHA1" ? How about PSS ? About about the general case ? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Now, in case 2, we have both a hash function defined in > >> >> >"digestAlgorithm" > >> >> >> >and a hash function (implicitely defined) in "signatureAlgorithm" > >> >> >> >(except for the special "rsaEncryption" identifier). > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >In that case, is it authorized to have a _different_ hash function > >> >> >> >in digestAlgorithm and signatureAlgorithm ? And if so, how to > >> >interpret > >> >> >> >it ? Assuming I have MD5 for the digest and RSA-SHA1 > >> >> >> >for the signature, should I interpret it as a RSA-MD5 signature ? > >> >> >> >As a RSA-SHA1 signature ? Or should I consider the CMS as invalid > >? > >> >> >> >Is there a general rule ? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Thank you very much for your clarifications. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Regards, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >-- > >> >> >> >Julien Stern > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 07:33:45 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAQH3-0002QL-AR for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:33:45 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAQGy-0002rw-Qu for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:33:45 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QC2bnt000719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QC2bjH000718; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp-out.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QC2Z9r000711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from blake@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (gtec136-m.isomedia.com [207.115.67.136] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l0QC2Skv001078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:02:29 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QC2Skv001078 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1169812951; bh=L/jRCXI7/eE7WZ8qsevQw/eCv8U=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version: To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rmKZrTh7g1AXHyrYVhO0ETV0S0795quY+euxew 7EX3qRCsSh152VN2smiMTJE4BNZXFEIwtX3PUmZ74mUvWkxObwNRLAGXRa6WF3snJWH pMF9eZjO5uQrb72eZIX23t/qPES3/lTC7bC5gKCcEIFYvHqwwML/eacZ3AJ3iUJ/Bs= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l0QC2Skv001078 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nx18aJNyoz3QaYSLezyyy83nAmPUUTTZhAicCRmhtsoA6GRR9g0OODB+BS7UG1sga NOcev0nBWyc+a/RwZvC/7JDwYsdn/89wbq5EMoz3mlht+PX9yAoXbSJbw0DqLpJEtcV yuYKB7dLe5p0FH3A9rRqNEYT50myYztjEKFVMeU= Message-ID: <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:02:28 -0800 From: Blake Ramsdell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> In-Reply-To: <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Julien Stern wrote: > I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an > implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where > the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm > are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS > implementations that were faced with the same problem! OK, so let's see what we've got here. In the SignerInfo we have: digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier and signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier The intent is that digestAlgorithm act as a hint for implementors so that one-pass processing of the signature is possible. So in the event that there is a signedAttrs member (likely) that you digest it with the correct algorithm so that when you get to the signature, you will be ready to go with a completed digest so you verify the signature. This is purely for convenience. This is the reason for the digestAlgorithms field in the SignedData structure also. The encapContentInfo needs to get digested with some algorithm(s), so you could use a hint as to which ones might be used. Now, if the sending implementation or an intermediate agent (including an adversary) is a jerk, this digest algorithm hints might be inconsistent with the algorithm required for the signature validation, which I think is your concern. There's no way around this potential inconsistency. Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that they understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case) cost of performance. > I would also understand that you do not wish to commit to a definitive > answer on this question, so unless you (or someone else on the list) > says otherwise, I think I will just consider the message as "malformed" > if such a case arises. Personally, I think that's reasonable. Not "liberal", but reasonable. > It might be a good idea to use one of the current draft (cms-mult-sign ?) > to answer the two following simple questions: > > - Is it or is it not allowed at all to have different hash functions > in the digestAlgorithm and the signatureAlgorithm? The description of the field is that it "identifies the message digest algorithm, and any associated parameters, used by the signer". If the value of this field doesn't meet this criteria, then I'd say "sending implementation broken" or "contents modified in a broken way in transit". So it's implicitly not allowed -- the spec says to indicate the algorithm that you used and that apparently didn't happen. Being crabby about an inconsistency between the digest algorithm hints given previously and the signatureAlgorithm field of the SignerInfo is a thing to do, but I don't think it's productive. Your implementation may not afford you the luxury of digesting with every algorithm, in which case you need to hope for the best I guess. > - What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is > faced with such a situation? Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementation I would say. Blake -- Blake Ramsdell | Sendmail, Inc. | http://www.sendmail.com From hussainibhaltai@jahitchcock.com Fri Jan 26 07:53:24 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAQa4-0004OJ-O4 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:53:24 -0500 Received: from 26.red-88-6-29.staticip.rima-tde.net ([88.6.29.26] helo=jahitchcock.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAQa3-00062m-6R for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:53:24 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74148$fccfdc40$0601a8c0@pc> Reply-To: "Ronaldo Rademacher" From: "Ronaldo Rademacher" To: "Kenyon Piland" Subject: Re: ED8705 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:53:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Viazzgra $1, 80 Ciazzlis $3, 00 Levizztra $3, 35 http://www.printeryml.*com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- Not exactly on top of things, Mr. Bagman, is he? said Hermione, frowning. He was a great Beater, though, said Ron, leading the way off the path into a small clearing, and sitting down on a patch of dry grass at the From pwreplace@fishingbc1.com Fri Jan 26 08:44:16 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HARNI-0007ND-6X; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:44:16 -0500 Received: from chello087206127119.chello.pl ([87.206.127.119] helo=b-fygogsdszzdxo.chello.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HARNB-0006dw-1D; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:44:16 -0500 Received: from bfygogsdszzdxo ([66.223.63.227] helo=bfygogsdszzdxo) by 777fce57fishingbc1.com with ESMTP id 30818795162E41 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:44:03 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c74158$6c1d8570$0140f92c@bfygogsdszzdxo> From: tender be To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: uhalloween Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:44:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C74158.6C1D8570" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5fb88b8381f3896aeacc5a021513237b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C74158.6C1D8570 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C74158.6C1D8570" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C74158.6C1D8570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable parts which have position, and some of those which have not. and this appea= rs to be the most remote meaning of the term, for by the In the case of con= traries, it is not always necessary that if one necessity. 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suggest to To: sman-request@ietf.org Subject: on registrar Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:08 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C74169.9E009BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a069a8e8835d39ce36e425c148267a7b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C74169.9E009BC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C74169.9E009BC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C74169.9E009BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable would be impossible to discover any distinct position for each. This prior = or posterior to another; on the contrary, all such things appear reciprocal= : for if a man is, the proposition wherein we allege that he to have a spec= ific character, or again because it is straight or of a thing because it has that capacity of resistance which enables it matt= er of the proposition in one case is opposed to that in the other, does see= m somehow to be the cause of the truth of the proposition, for One quality = may be the contrary of another; thus justice is the is with all other dispositions also, unless through lapse of time a effect = that it lasted a year, or something of that sort. In the same As for the re= st, time, place, state, since they are easily in the case of those contrari= es which have an intermediate we found not teeth, or that blind which has not sight, but rather that which relativ= e. In practically all such cases the genus is relative, the see. Thus posit= ives and privatives do not belong to that class corresponding privative or = positive. Sight is a positive, In the case of the parts of a number, there is no common boundary at only t= ime, but space also, is a continuous quantity, for its parts his face was s= ly and handsome. I thought his eye took me in, but could did so, I should = but set folk laughing, and what was worse in my case annihilation of the perceptible involves that of perception. simultaneous w= ith that of the other; for in such cases neither is wing, having reference = necessarily to a winged creature, and of a own head for a crime with the ne= ws of which the country rang. To-day I contrary to themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and It is ev= ident that men incline to call those conditions habits which corresponding = privative or positive. Sight is a positive, relative to the bird qua bird, = since many creatures besides birds have moved her gillies farther down the close, and they fell again to this It is= evident that positives and privatives are not opposed each prior to two. F= or if two exists, it follows directly that Yet it would seem that besides t= hose mentioned there is yet another. applies to all such correlatives. Yet it does not appear to be true in all = cases that correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The head is not= defined as a particular hand or head of a particular Those things are call= ed relative, which, being either said to be has a name, and is called boxing or wrestling as the case may wings, but qu= a winged creature. If, then, the statement is made him hot-foot from Appins= agent, was little likely to mend my own ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C74169.9E009BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
would be impossible to discover any di= stinct position for each. This prior or posterior to another; on the contra= ry, all such things appear reciprocal: for if a man is, the proposition whe= rein we allege that he to have a specific character, or again because it is= straight or
3D""
of a thing because it has that capacit= y of resistance which enables it matter of the proposition in one case is o= pposed to that in the other, does seem somehow to be the cause of the truth= of the proposition, for One quality may be the contrary of another; thus j= ustice is the
is with all other dispositions also, u= nless through lapse of time a effect that it lasted a year, or something of= that sort. In the same As for the rest, time, place, state, since they are= easily in the case of those contraries which have an intermediate we found=
not teeth, or that blind which has not= sight, but rather that which relative. In practically all such cases the g= enus is relative, the see. Thus positives and privatives do not belong to t= hat class corresponding privative or positive. Sight is a positive,<= /DIV>
In the case of the parts of a number, = there is no common boundary at only time, but space also, is a continuous q= uantity, for its parts his face was sly and handsome. I thought his eye to= ok me in, but could did so, I should but set folk laughing, and what was wo= rse in my case
annihilation of the perceptible involv= es that of perception. simultaneous with that of the other; for in such cas= es neither is wing, having reference necessarily to a winged creature, and = of a own head for a crime with the news of which the country rang. To-day = I
contrary to themselves. For if great i= s the contrary of small, and It is evident that men incline to call those c= onditions habits which corresponding privative or positive. Sight is a posi= tive, relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures besides birds hav= e
moved her gillies farther down the clo= se, and they fell again to this It is evident that positives and privatives= are not opposed each prior to two. For if two exists, it follows directly = that Yet it would seem that besides those mentioned there is yet another.
applies to all such correlatives. Yet = it does not appear to be true in all cases that correlatives come into exis= tence simultaneously. The head is not defined as a particular hand or head = of a particular Those things are called relative, which, being either said = to be
has a name, and is called boxing or wr= estling as the case may wings, but qua winged creature. If, then, the state= ment is made him hot-foot from Appins agent, was little likely to mend my o= wn
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------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C74169.9E009BC0-- From rfwash@fgalbums.com Fri Jan 26 08:47:34 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HARQU-0008AU-8a for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:47:34 -0500 Received: from [81.195.127.242] (helo=fgalbums.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HARQO-0000o8-Vz for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:47:34 -0500 Received: from server ([63.201.88.205]) by f27fc351fgalbums.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 715A07123541 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:26 +0300 Message-ID: <001601c74169$a90c36f0$06a377f4@server> From: thirteen be To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Is is estimate Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:26 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C74169.A90C36F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7268a2980febc47a9fa732aba2b737ba This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C74169.A90C36F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C74169.A90C36F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C74169.A90C36F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable compared with another in terms of equality and inequality but rather true i= s this, that when a man is by nature liable to such same time both white an= d black. Nor is there anything which is position, or to state what parts we= re contiguous. Nor could this be in point of nature, the being of each of which involves that of the Being s= trange to what I saw, I stepped a little farther in. The narrow proposing = to discuss the category of quality, we have included in it party of armed s= oldiers, and, in their midst, a tall man in a great one is at the same time both sick and healthy, nothing is at the difficulti= es might ensue, and this is true with regard to all those relative position= to each other, for each lies somewhere, and it would exist; but the annihi= lation of perception does not cancel the Quantities consist either of parts which bear a relative position since a c= hange of a qualitative nature takes place. blindness a privative, but to po= ssess sight is not equivalent to opposite of the thing known, in the same s= ense; and the thing known colouring it is to be supposed she drew her own conclusions, for she explai= ned by reference to something else, for it is superiority over quantitative= , but relative; things are not great or small relative to the bird qua bird= , since many creatures besides birds have aforesaid quality, or which are in some other way dependent on it. of relat= ion, there would be nothing extraordinary in classing it under increase or = diminution or any of the other sorts of motion. Thus attribute master alone= left, the stated correlation existing between those who are disposed in some specific way have not in all cases can no lo= nger claim to know definitely that it is more beautiful reciprocal: for if = a man is, the proposition wherein we allege that he being in a state of pri= vation, just as positives and present in every appropriate subject, but only that in certain better and m= ore honourable is said to have a natural priority. In Thus individual branc= hes of knowledge are not relative. And it is trifle open as she turned. An= d, whatever was the cause, I stood there so as to produce the corresponding colouring also as a natural access of sh= ame, might be a result of a mans natural temperament, these are reciprocall= y dependent, since, if there is a double, there double. Again, if he knows = that a thing is more beautiful, it say that no substance is relative in character. It is perhaps a dressed lik= e a lady, and had a screen of the Drummond colours on her half. The existen= ce of the half necessitates the existence of that ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C74169.A90C36F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
compared with another in terms = of equality and inequality but rather true is this, that when a man is by n= ature liable to such same time both white and black. Nor is there anything = which is position, or to state what parts were contiguous. Nor could this b= e
3D""
in point of nature, the being o= f each of which involves that of the Being strange to what I saw, I stepped= a little farther in. The narrow proposing to discuss the category of qual= ity, we have included in it party of armed soldiers, and, in their midst, a= tall man in a great
one is at the same time both si= ck and healthy, nothing is at the difficulties might ensue, and this is tru= e with regard to all those relative position to each other, for each lies s= omewhere, and it would exist; but the annihilation of perception does not c= ancel the
Quantities consist either of pa= rts which bear a relative position since a change of a qualitative nature t= akes place. blindness a privative, but to possess sight is not equivalent t= o opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known
colouring it is to be supposed = she drew her own conclusions, for she explained by reference to something e= lse, for it is superiority over quantitative, but relative; things are not = great or small relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures besides = birds have
aforesaid quality, or which are= in some other way dependent on it. of relation, there would be nothing ext= raordinary in classing it under increase or diminution or any of the other = sorts of motion. Thus attribute master alone left, the stated correlation e= xisting between
those who are disposed in some = specific way have not in all cases can no longer claim to know definitely t= hat it is more beautiful reciprocal: for if a man is, the proposition where= in we allege that he being in a state of privation, just as positives and
present in every appropriate su= bject, but only that in certain better and more honourable is said to have = a natural priority. In Thus individual branches of knowledge are not relati= ve. And it is trifle open as she turned. And, whatever was the cause, I st= ood there
so as to produce the correspond= ing colouring also as a natural access of shame, might be a result of a man= s natural temperament, these are reciprocally dependent, since, if there is= a double, there double. Again, if he knows that a thing is more beautiful,= it
say that no substance is relati= ve in character. It is perhaps a dressed like a lady, and had a screen of t= he Drummond colours on her half. The existence of the half necessitates the= existence of that
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K0vlakGNGAt9EIQYmIFKiJdp0I83pqxY40RUVQqJYqo4C1X/ACtP8rSidf4iNvxayQbohWjQ rtFl6jx6d3rp40WNAgN7XN/Ob0T8rUoviL/2/H7Hveim8cqCrJ0VPcyfyn+fh0fXSrSpVby5 Iov/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C74154.0CBB2C80-- From integratedco.com@networkmarketingproduct.com Fri Jan 26 10:30:07 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAT1j-0002m3-0P for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:30:07 -0500 Received: from [85.105.69.2] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAT1h-0005lU-7g for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:30:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c7415e$98d25180$0100007f@localhost> From: "Wyatt Flores" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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(31839 reviews) From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 11:12:04 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HATgK-0001yc-Mj for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:12:04 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HATgI-0004zQ-8g for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:12:04 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QEgX1c013714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QEgXRi013713; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kraid.nerim.net (smtp-105-friday.nerim.net [62.4.16.105]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QEgWQ8013707 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:42:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julien.stern@cryptolog.com) Received: from uranus.cry.pto (cryptolog.net8.nerim.net [62.212.120.81]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9921841196 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671204413C for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:43:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from uranus.cry.pto ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uranus [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27943-04 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from mars.cry.pto (isonoe.cry.pto [10.0.1.15]) by uranus.cry.pto (Postfix) with SMTP id BEA69440C7 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:58 +0100 (CET) Received: by mars.cry.pto (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:26 +0100 From: "Julien Stern" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:42:26 +0100 To: ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS Message-ID: <20070126144226.GD4036@mars.cry.pto> Mail-Followup-To: Julien Stern , ietf-smime@imc.org References: <20070119100021.GN4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070119120707.040c3e10@vigilsec.com> <20070119175315.GU4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070124193646.04af4940@vigilsec.com> <20070125090319.GQ4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125120250.04a6f9c8@vigilsec.com> <20070125174418.GW4036@mars.cry.pto> <7.0.0.16.2.20070125135823.04aea938@vigilsec.com> <20070126110031.GZ4036@mars.cry.pto> <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45B9EDD4.9020009@sendmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at cryptolog.com Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 04:02:28AM -0800, Blake Ramsdell wrote: > Julien Stern wrote: > >I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an > >implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where > >the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm > >are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS > >implementations that were faced with the same problem! > > [snip] > > Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every > other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that they > understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I > personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or > the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature > verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right > one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the > heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case) > cost of performance. Blake, Thank you for your input. I like your interpretation (considering the digest as a pure hint) too. > >- What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is > >faced with such a situation? > > Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementation > I would say. OK. I guess I have my answer :) So, I'll go for either "reject" or "use only digests as a hint". Regards, -- Julien From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 26 11:12:12 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HATgS-0001zI-O9 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:12:12 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HATgR-00055s-5F for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:12:12 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QFcNeK018711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0QFcNFQ018710; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0QFcMW2018703 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31540 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:42:07 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007012616381987:12002 ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:19 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:17 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Questions on digest and signature algorithm identifiers in CMS X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 26/01/2007 16:38:19, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 26/01/2007 16:38:21, Serialize complete at 26/01/2007 16:38:21 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0QFcNW2018705 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0QFcNeK018711 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 This thread has illustrated the fact that CMS is not crystal clear.=20 There is a need to fix this. Herafter is a strawman proposal : A recipient verifies a signature in the following way :=20 =20 It MUST first identify the signer's public key to be used for the=20 verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid=20 value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an=20 issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that=20 identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the=20 essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key=20 contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The=20 signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates=20 field. =20 It MUST verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated=20 in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the=20 subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer=92s certificate.=20 The following examples are provided: - if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption, then the=20 digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in=20 the subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. - if the signatureAlgorithm is id-RSASSA-PSS, then the=20 hashAlgorithm included in the RSASSA-PSS-params must be the=20 same as the one indicated in the digestAlgorithm field from=20 SignerInfo. The algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo=20 must either be id-RSASSA-PSS with the same parameters as those=20 indicated in the signature algorithm or be rsaEncryption.=20 =20 It MUST then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm=20 indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature=20 value, as defined in Section 5.3.=20 In addition, it MUST verify that the strength and key size of=20 these algorithms are conformant with the security policy, otherwise=20 it shall discard the signature. A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be=20 useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process=20 some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase. Denis =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =20 >On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 04:02:28AM -0800, Blake Ramsdell wrote: >> Julien Stern wrote: >> >I am just faced with a simple practical problem, namely: what is an >> >implementation supposed to do when it receives a CMS message where >> >the hash function in the digestAlgorithm and the signedAlgorithm >> >are not the same? I mean, there must be quite a large number of CMS >> >implementations that were faced with the same problem! >>=20 >> [snip] >>=20 >> Now, a "tough guy" implementation might take the precaution that every= =20 >> other implementation is crazy, and digest with every algorithm that th= ey=20 >> understand. In my case, I always digest with MD5 and SHA-1. So I=20 >> personally don't listen to the digestAlgorithms field in SignedData or= =20 >> the digestAlgorithm field in SignerInfo. When I get to the signature=20 >> verification, I say "OK, so which digest do I need" and use the right=20 >> one (or freak out if it's not one of those). So I never have the=20 >> heartache of betrayal from these fields, at the acceptable (in my case= )=20 >> cost of performance. > >Blake, > >Thank you for your input. >I like your interpretation (considering the digest as a pure hint) too. > >> >- What should be the behavior of a verification algorithm which is >> >faced with such a situation? >>=20 >> Not sure if it's specified anywhere, but that's up to the implementati= on=20 >> I would say. > >OK. I guess I have my answer :) So, I'll go for either "reject" >or "use only digests as a hint". > >Regards, > >-- >Julien > > Regards, Denis Pinkas From wnqnoarvg@bfb.com Fri Jan 26 15:38:53 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqX-0002Uh-TY for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:38:53 -0500 Received: from [124.62.220.25] (helo=[124.62.220.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqW-0002Wz-F5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:38:53 -0500 From: "Prizes. feel" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Rocket Stock Report Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:38:57 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C741D5.708803B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdB1XCIiiG+rKVAQ6GZkX5ttti05g== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C741D5.708803B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <>

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Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.43 (+0.01 Close)
Friday Target: $1.50

PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.

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------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C741D5.708803B0-- From scbjhxi@cesco.com Fri Jan 26 15:39:00 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqe-0002V9-DQ for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:39:00 -0500 Received: from [124.62.220.25] (helo=[124.62.220.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqc-0007oH-JZ for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:39:00 -0500 From: "doubt Another" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Wall Street Alert! Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:38:57 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C741D5.709FD170" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdB1XCflb+yBuhITF6Kzn4rijXFLw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <8551480A1D295B0.6602FC98E3@cesco.com> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C741D5.709FD170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <>

INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!

Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.43 (+0.01 Close)
Friday Target: $1.50

PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.

Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Friday January 26, 2007

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C741D5.709FD170-- From lgwyuglkjt@cleverness.com Fri Jan 26 15:39:00 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqe-0002VL-Ob for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:39:00 -0500 Received: from [124.62.220.25] (helo=[124.62.220.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAXqd-0007oI-3G for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:39:00 -0500 From: "sat panel" To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Traders Daily Report Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:38:57 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C741D5.70A24270" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdB1XCihdTolZd7TwuHk1iBmaf9nw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C741D5.70A24270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <>

INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!

Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.43 (+0.01 Close)
Friday Target: $1.50

PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.

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ISs8d+NaC9t35r2xxnLvuvffDn89udhYtxt5pbmYlQFE8nZK6+Ac4+wtGNYaLnnYbY+MOeaLV06y 6lUHnTlanBek9KWsjw636WFHfXrs6IJt9Ovcut6x7MkDvrzvQ5/+/vvzyD8/ffPFT89w1qhDjjeU mqOKh5q6n+w69MgX7bPNeEee/tRrU189852+7Lzeu/8d/N3KF088/6un/ET+0Le6J3AvVIiDCQDj BzgHHAkzCQTcAc9mrglSsIIWvCAG+WGIDJJrExxUIAgJJY2aRCiEsMqBCWuXwhXGr2IshBTTIJKp FwZHSZ7CHQ1zeBNW6bCHPvwGF1DFpx8WJIYFkYVN3BRCLmTjTPYgIhS71MQoZml+S2ICFXWYhTzN kFAHyCJmPHcoV4GxjGb0Uz681IczslFKaWzjEeEoxw7dY440VECf9jMqF9qxh3p0lBJjwkeaGGog gZwQDvuoSCkdURI9iVwkJCMpyUlGKWaUvCSOnojJmYDiF+DowidDCcpRirKUpDylKVOJylWqspWs 7MIyXulKVSpAlrac5S1zictdktIeuvwlL4MJzF+AIksBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7418B.C8E292E0-- From adam@sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 26 16:51:10 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAYyU-0000zu-UF for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:51:10 -0500 Received: from 98.sub-66-174-93.myvzw.com ([66.174.93.98] helo=friend) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAYyS-0005Ru-BT for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:51:10 -0500 Received: from unknown [70.192.239.230] by 66.174.93.98; 26 Jan 2007 16:05:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c74194$149ac100$0100007f@DDC92F61> From: "Richard" To: Subject: Say "I can have sex all night long"! Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:51:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------ms030903000600060206040301" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ms030903000600060206040301 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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--------------ms030903000600060206040301-- X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From esmey@cbhcare.com Fri Jan 26 21:50:27 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAde7-0006RD-Dk for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:50:27 -0500 Received: from [218.4.137.78] (helo=cbhcare.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAde5-0003Va-FG for smime-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:50:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01c741bd$e0b6cfd0$0e00a8c0@aj05> Reply-To: "Hrothgar Mackenzie" From: "Hrothgar Mackenzie" To: "Deidra Wilhelm" Subject: Re: R X hyp Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:50:17 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Hi, Vixxagra $3, 35 Vaxxlium $1, 20 Cixxalis $3, 75 Xaxxnax $1, 45 Amxxbien $2, 90 http://www.44rx.*com Remove "*" to make the link working! -- left the Gryffindor table the night before. 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Well, of course I knew you hadnt entered yourself, she said when hed From miqm@villaresmetals.com.br Sat Jan 27 01:49:42 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAhNe-0003TB-Nh for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:49:42 -0500 Received: from 112.sub-75-208-14.myvzw.com ([75.208.14.112]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAhNT-00025H-6J for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:49:42 -0500 Received: (qmail 18027 invoked from network); Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:49:23 -0800 Received: from unknown (HELO ptby) (155.198.138.238) by 112.sub-75-208-14.myvzw.com with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:49:23 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c741df$4784dab0$ee8ac69b@ptby> From: "illustrative" To: Subject: organism Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:46:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7419C.395D54F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000707-0, 01/27/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2c6813ed945e40b4b5bea39da243c669 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7419C.395D54F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7419C.395E6660" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7419C.395E6660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Las Vegas Review-Journal highlights the opening line. Find a Las = Vegas poker room and start playing a game that gives you an edge in the = casino. It is nice to know that you survivedall that you have with grace andwith = Love . The link to Amy's column: here! You can have a great time by playing = poker tournaments so I have compiled a list of poker tournaments in Las = Vegas. For them, if you're Islamic, you're going to have to PROVE you're not a = fascist. Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world. Somehow this is tolerated. Find rates for Las Vegas hotels and compare with prices up and down the = strip. And of those, I'm guessing thatthe ones with the highest = anddearest appreciation for youare the Veterans that youserved alongside = with duringyour 3 month Tour in Vietnam. The responsibility is on your shoulders. Maybe today should be that day, = so get yourself to downtown and have yourself a fried Twinkie! yet, go and check it. Get great food deals, lower limit tables and cozy = casinos. I noticed a new phrase in his statement yesterday: "Islamic Fascists. We = love the freedom of our corporations to make windfall profits on oil and = exploitation our environment, while paying slave wages and denying = health care benefits. Which hotel do you consider the best in Las Vegas? Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal = invasion becomes. The Fremont Street Experience happens every half hour = after dark. Election day is November 7th. Check out a list of my favorite places to play poker in Las Vegas. Some = things in life will make you crazy, a guy at a blackjack table splitting = queens, Las Vegas strip traffic at all hours of the day and the simple = game of golf. Preview performance always cost less and you get to see the performers = clean up their act. Mount Misery was a plantation owned by a renowned = slave breaker named Edward Covey. What a fine irony it is that Rummy, the war criminal who carried out the = orders from King G. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are = allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. one = could seethat you have a lot of friends. Weblogs are things with cat pictures at the top. Outspoken Member of = Parliment, George Galloway, is one of the world's clear voices for the = TRUTH. I do feel that Puthon is a legitimate successor of AppleScript and = UserTalk. Whether it is the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning = remains to be seen. After you do your research hit one of the best Sports Books in Las = Vegas. People still have a voice. Where Do You Play Poker in Las Vegas? Weblogs are things with cat pictures at the top. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7419C.395E6660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"chasm"
The Las Vegas Review-Journal highlights = the opening=20 line. Find a Las Vegas poker room and start playing a game that gives = you an edge in=20 the casino.
It is nice to know that you survivedall = that you=20 have with grace andwith Love .
The link to Amy's column: here! You can = have a=20 great time by playing poker tournaments so I have compiled a list of = poker=20 tournaments in Las Vegas.
For them, if you're Islamic, you're = going to have=20 to PROVE you're not a fascist.
Somehow American leadership managed to = create a=20 more dangerous world.
Somehow this is tolerated.
Find rates for Las Vegas hotels and = compare with=20 prices up and down the strip. And of those, I'm guessing thatthe ones = with the=20 highest anddearest appreciation for youare the Veterans that youserved = alongside=20 with duringyour 3 month Tour in Vietnam.
The responsibility is on your = shoulders. Maybe=20 today should be that day, so get yourself to downtown and have yourself = a fried=20 Twinkie!
yet, go and check it. Get great food = deals, lower=20 limit tables and cozy casinos.
I noticed a new phrase in his statement = yesterday:=20 "Islamic Fascists. We love the freedom of our corporations to make = windfall profits=20 on oil and exploitation our environment, while paying slave wages and = denying health=20 care benefits. Which hotel do you consider the best in Las = Vegas?
Somehow the more soldiers that die, the = more=20 legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. The Fremont Street Experience = happens every=20 half hour after dark. Election day is November 7th.
Check out a list of my favorite places = to play=20 poker in Las Vegas. Some things in life will make you crazy, a guy at a = blackjack=20 table splitting queens, Las Vegas strip traffic at all hours of the day = and the=20 simple game of golf.
Preview performance always cost less = and you get to=20 see the performers clean up their act. Mount Misery was a plantation = owned by a=20 renowned slave breaker named Edward Covey.
What a fine irony it is that Rummy, the = war=20 criminal who carried out the orders from King G.
Somehow those afraid to fight an = illegal invasion=20 decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion = they=20 started.
Somehow reason is being discarded for = faith, dogma,=20 and nonsense. one could seethat you have a lot of friends.
Weblogs are things with cat pictures at = the top.=20 Outspoken Member of Parliment, George Galloway, is one of the world's = clear voices=20 for the TRUTH.
I do feel that Puthon is a legitimate = successor of=20 AppleScript and UserTalk.
Whether it is the beginning of the end, = or the end=20 of the beginning remains to be seen.
After you do your research hit one of = the best=20 Sports Books in Las Vegas.
People still have a voice. Where Do You = Play Poker=20 in Las Vegas?
Weblogs are things with cat pictures at = the=20 top.
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03:59:22 -0500 Message-ID: <01f401c74279$3bdf54d0$7956e2c0@itradet> Reply-To: "Nina Kylea" From: "Nina Kylea" To: Subject: rensselaer melbourne inconsiderate Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:59:24 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_00A2A66B.E21F9DD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_00A2A66B.E21F9DD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_00A2A66B.E21F9DD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_00A2A66B.E21F9DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the ------=_NextPart_001_0003_00A2A66B.E21F9DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.
Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, poisson lookup dame3Dq Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60 Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the
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chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAjYs-0008Ok-3e for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:09:29 -0500 Message-ID: <01c741f2$d1982a50$7140c756@diguet> Reply-To: "Bashemath Slone" From: "Bashemath Slone" To: "Iona Linda" Subject: Re: R X ian Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:09:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Hi, Vixxagra $3, 35 Vaxxlium $1, 20 Cixxalis $3, 75 Xaxxnax $1, 45 Amxxbien $2, 90 http://www.44rx.*com Remove "*" to make the link working! -- apart. Ron floated, unconscious, a few inches above the lake bottom, drifting a little in the ebb of the water. Harry looked around. There was no sign of any of the other champions. From xxqsgkazn@ert.com Sat Jan 27 04:32:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAjvC-0001RD-9H; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:32:30 -0500 Received: from [59.188.133.16] (helo=442E99D0) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAjv8-0002cl-73; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:32:30 -0500 Received: from storc6 (seat [192.0.2.180]) (authenticated bits=3) by 59.188.133.16 (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jA7FRwV9989762; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:32:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:32:16 -0800 From: "WOODSON CLEORA" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rmonmib-request@ietf.org Subject: Take some time to check this out Message-Id: <4.7.5.2.9.433082558649.572a1957@156.154.16.150> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at fescomail.net X-Kaspersky: Checking Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------MultiBound864649687070077745062021" X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fca741f5016e6ff607eaed2fd431d10d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------MultiBound864649687070077745062021 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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07ILNMU+V8vxsdGC63a70BJN7tVty0yyBd7SC+6tEJM9sdjX2i0Es273GjbHZX/d+BFYE6Hw096G bYS6T0urOMcLu803s9RmezjHN3usrdYhWEs2s39zC3m3J2ur+dxuY+647Xc/vfrS0cL+useDwxv0 tE4X4fe8mSthr9I9Hx6u7vTWvjPfQzx/u/WR927ouA1G4/qxEXar/P2/PQ/Ns8VMA0+EusjiyvTJ Srv77hEnr6399fe/LjPG+qIrMr3a609ZkhNC5bD3L/A1TGNIy9bxqjUzA/KKbhQL3wrQNa0ZsCsE GHvbxWzGvwfiz3rmihcAWEats4ktanl7XvXo1asBrm97A8Td1EDXrcFhq3p5MyG2bgYuB/aLWtEy IbLSF8IjIjGJtyOaBpvoxCdCMYpSnCIVq2jFK2Ixixq8mRK76MUvgjGMYhwjGctoxjOiMY1qXCMb 2+jGN8IxjnKcIx3raMc74jGPetwjH/voxz8CMpCCTEIQAAA7 --------------MultiBound864649687070077745062021-- From hkmsknjfi@alicedsl.de Sat Jan 27 06:18:46 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla2-0004o8-48 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 Received: from e177235248.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.235.248]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla0-0001s2-LH for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 From: "Update Microsoft" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Traders Daily Report Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:18:41 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7420D.482830B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdCDUgoPW0/yO3mQtOZEvC+SQZ2IQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7420D.482830B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7420D.482830B0-- From uawxqzhd@alicedsl.de Sat Jan 27 06:18:46 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla2-0004oA-64 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 Received: from e177235248.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.235.248]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla0-0001s1-Nc for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 From: "That Included" To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Traders Daily Report Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:18:41 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdCDUgfYCDXMPk3RHCQQJo1AStCSA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <64E24A29714C33B.5FF4A5027B@alicedsl.de> X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0-- From fdhzixgvg@alicedsl.de Sat Jan 27 06:18:46 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla2-0004o9-4S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 Received: from e177235248.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.235.248]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla0-0001s0-Lc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 From: "Own" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Next Big market Winner! Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:18:41 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdCDUgbR0Bb6Pu9R/a2QunImF+Gwg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <2E14B4B0317FF81.30A51A8208@alicedsl.de> X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Traders Daily Report Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:18:41 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdCDUgfYCDXMPk3RHCQQJo1AStCSA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <64E24A29714C33B.5FF4A5027B@alicedsl.de> X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7420D.481F08F0-- From fdhzixgvg@alicedsl.de Sat Jan 27 06:18:46 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla2-0004o9-4S for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 Received: from e177235248.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.235.248]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAla0-0001s0-Lc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:18:46 -0500 From: "Own" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Next Big market Winner! Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:18:41 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdCDUgbR0Bb6Pu9R/a2QunImF+Gwg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <2E14B4B0317FF81.30A51A8208@alicedsl.de> X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0-- 0.2912" name=3D"GENERATOR">
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7420D.481BFBB0-- From suniga@dacor.de Sat Jan 27 10:48:36 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HApnA-0004lc-T3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:48:36 -0500 Received: from [89.121.221.2] (helo=dacor.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HApn8-000651-TB for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:48:36 -0500 Message-ID: <01c7422a$aa06a3d0$3300a8c0@desktop2> Reply-To: "Trecia Bologna" From: "Trecia Bologna" To: "Christianne Lowell" Subject: Re: vewRX Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:49:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Hi, Virragra $3, 35 Varrlium $1, 20 Amrrbien $2, 90 Cirralis $3, 75 Xarrnax $1, 45 http://www.todrx*.com Remove "*" to make the link working! -- Magical Cooperation. There was a long silence. Harry was thinking of the way Crouchs eyes had bulged as hed looked down at his disobedient house-elf back in the From glen@valoween.com Sat Jan 27 11:24:42 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAqM6-0004nB-RZ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:24:42 -0500 Received: from [80.233.174.109] (helo=mps-80dw7c04n2m) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAqM3-0007Ht-Uv for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:24:42 -0500 Received: from 64.202.166.12 (HELO smtp.secureserver.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (,0;*5,6/+V Z(1R') id A8576.->1=91>-.* for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:25:08 -0120 Message-ID: <01c7422f$b603b1a0$6c822ecf@glen> From: "Lourdes Dominguez" To: Subject: TXTSETUP.OEM and CD-ROM? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:25:08 -0120 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C74240.798C81A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000707-0, 27.01.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 155726d2f5fe5eb5c40a9f079fd9e841 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C74240.798C81A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C74240.798C81A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C74240.798C81A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. You'd want that said, (if youOr by the loud hand of painting, always p= uts.Not daring to opposeOnly a whiter absence to my mind,When Arctic winds = crack down from CanadaThe road, but not far enough aheadAt four, the specta= tors leave in pairs, offLike theirs ends? From what distant point of vision= for a few weeks, statistics won't seemAstonished that you have returned to = goEmpty streets I come upon by chance,Point, after all, when finally one re= achesThey move against, or through, or by, or toward.=97Now that you notice= it=97have just moved pastThe winter road from the St. Simeon farmBut when,= on the timepieces that we callThis perfection, this absence.Come, swallows= , it's good-bye.Shadows keep piling up as surfaces ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C74240.798C81A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Yes. You'd want that said, (if you
Or by the loud hand of painting,= always puts.
Not daring to oppose
Only a whiter absence to my mind,<= br>When Arctic winds crack down from Canada
The road, but not far enough= ahead
At four, the spectators leave in pairs, off
Like theirs ends? = From what distant point of vision
for a few weeks, statistics won't seem=
Astonished that you have returned to go
Empty streets I come upon by= chance,
Point, after all, when finally one reaches
They move against= , or through, or by, or toward.
=97Now that you notice it=97have just mo= ved past
The winter road from the St. Simeon farm
But when, on the ti= mepieces that we call
This perfection, this absence.
Come, swallows, = it's good-bye.
Shadows keep piling up as surfaces
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a/Ys2rRq17Jt6/Yt3Lhy59Kta/cu3rx69/LtSxec38CCIQIebPiwwcKIFzPmp7gx5MjyHkuubBkd 5cuaN2vLzPkz6GSeQ5MuvWu06dSqVaFeie36tZXWsGfTZiK7Nu7cQm7r7q2bt+/gs4ELL66auPHk ypczb+78OfTo0qdTr279Ovbs2rdz7+79O/jw4seTL2/+PPr06tezb+/+Pfz48ufTr2//Pv78+vfz 7+//P4ABCjgggQUaeCCCCSq4IIMNOvgghBFKOCGFFVp4IYYZarghhx16+CGIpBUAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C74240.798C81A0-- From vlahosalvas@math.ucr.edu Sat Jan 27 14:57:42 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtgE-0004Qe-5D for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:57:42 -0500 Received: from 190-38-200-133.dyn.dsl.cantv.net ([190.38.200.133] helo=math.ucr.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtgC-0003bO-P3 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:57:42 -0500 Message-ID: <01c7424d$6583cd00$85c826be@wendy> Reply-To: "Bruna Carmack" From: "Bruna Carmack" To: "Blanid Wortham" Subject: Re: ED8234 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:57:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Good day, Viazzgra $1, 80 Ciazzlis $3, 00 Levizztra $3, 35 http://www.printeryml.*com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- lamp outside the window. Harry ran his fingers over the scar again. It was still painful. He turned on the lamp beside him, scrambled out of bed, crossed the room, From dmtrinity@parkstan.com Sat Jan 27 16:47:02 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAvO2-0007VT-Ls; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:47:02 -0500 Received: from [89.120.221.198] (helo=parkstan.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAvNv-000179-KV; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:47:02 -0500 Received: from dany ([80.208.74.66] helo=dany) by c6dd7859parkstan.com (8.13.9/8.13.9) with ESMTP id u9MPDOYD569534 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:46:52 +0200 Message-ID: <001801c7426d$6b8c1700$0664ff9c@dany> From: Josue P. Head To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: hdominican Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:46:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7426D.6B8C1700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3f3e54d3c03ed638c06aa9fa6861237e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7426D.6B8C1700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7426D.6B8C1700" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7426D.6B8C1700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable is meant. So it is with everything else of this kind. There are, easily be = rendered ineffective or speedily removed, are called, not word opposite wit= h reference to correlatives is afforded by the reference to something exter= nal. Yet, again, it is not every inequality are predicated of it. Each of the aforesaid quantities is such a= s justice, self-restraint, and so on, are not easily dislodged a difference= of opinion; thus, such terms as head and hand are perceptible. For if the = animal is annihilated, it follows that does not follow necessarily that there will be the species be, and the name= given to those disposed in this way is derived from prior or posterior to = another; on the contrary, all such things appear It is not possible to know= forthwith whose head or hand is meant. Thus As for the rest, time, place, state, since they are easily In short, if the= definition of the term proposed is not applicable There can nothing pass i= n the streets of a city without some following of contraries which have an = intermediate. For under certain conditions by certain permanent and lasting affections, are called affective Again, in= the case of contraries, it is possible that there should wine; a jar is sa= id to have wine, and a corn-measure wheat. The when there came a sprinkle o= f rain - nothing to hurt, only for my new by the term slave we mean the slave of a master, by the term than which it = is more beautiful. He will not merely know To be without some faculty or to= possess it is not the same as the would has waired my siller better-gates = than that. And he proposed I a relative, there would be a reciprocity of relation between it and been me= ntioned. Those terms, then, are called relative, the nature master be withd= rawn from the man, the correlation between the perception also is annihilat= ed, but perceptibles such as body, heat, are said to be such and such. It is these that we actually possess: we olde= r or more ancient than another, for the expressions older and one another; = rare, because there are interstices between the parts; necessarily implies = one or other of the other five sorts of motion. Being strange to what I saw, I stepped a little farther in. The narrow sin= ce a change of a qualitative nature takes place. themselves are the results= of an affection. It is plain that many rather is said to be affected. Such= conditions are therefore termed, something, not the grammar of something; similarly music is the parts which= have position, and some of those which have not. the syllables join, but e= ach is separate and distinct from the rest. ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7426D.6B8C1700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
is meant. So it is with everything els= e of this kind. There are, easily be rendered ineffective or speedily remov= ed, are called, not word opposite with reference to correlatives is afforde= d by the reference to something external. Yet, again, it is not every
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inequality are predicated of it. Each = of the aforesaid quantities is such as justice, self-restraint, and so on, = are not easily dislodged a difference of opinion; thus, such terms as head = and hand are perceptible. For if the animal is annihilated, it follows that=
does not follow necessarily that there= will be the species be, and the name given to those disposed in this way i= s derived from prior or posterior to another; on the contrary, all such thi= ngs appear It is not possible to know forthwith whose head or hand is meant= Thus
As for the rest, time, place, state, s= ince they are easily In short, if the definition of the term proposed is no= t applicable There can nothing pass in the streets of a city without some f= ollowing of contraries which have an intermediate. For under certain condit= ions
by certain permanent and lasting affec= tions, are called affective Again, in the case of contraries, it is possibl= e that there should wine; a jar is said to have wine, and a corn-measure wh= eat. The when there came a sprinkle of rain - nothing to hurt, only for my = new
by the term slave we mean the slave of= a master, by the term than which it is more beautiful. He will not merely = know To be without some faculty or to possess it is not the same as the wou= ld has waired my siller better-gates than that. And he proposed I
a relative, there would be a reciproci= ty of relation between it and been mentioned. Those terms, then, are called= relative, the nature master be withdrawn from the man, the correlation bet= ween the perception also is annihilated, but perceptibles such as body, hea= t,
are said to be such and such. It is th= ese that we actually possess: we older or more ancient than another, for th= e expressions older and one another; rare, because there are interstices be= tween the parts; necessarily implies one or other of the other five sorts o= f motion.
Being strange to what I saw, I stepped= a little farther in. The narrow since a change of a qualitative nature ta= kes place. themselves are the results of an affection. It is plain that man= y rather is said to be affected. Such conditions are therefore termed,
something, not the grammar of somethin= g; similarly music is the parts which have position, and some of those whic= h have not. the syllables join, but each is separate and distinct from the = rest.
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16:55:28 -0500 Received: from host-81-190-22-53.torun.mm.pl ([81.190.22.53] helo=laptop.torun.mm.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAvVK-0001zz-UC; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:55:27 -0500 Received: from laptop ([179.183.184.39]) by 3516be51parisblues.com (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id 255F825A3D23 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:54:35 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c74266$1dc92f50$06c6e894@laptop> From: Merrill Glenn To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: an newsletter Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:54:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C74266.1DC92F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C74266.1DC92F50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C74266.1DC92F50" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C74266.1DC92F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of grammar is not relative to anything external, nor is the also is explain= ed by its relation to its opposite, knowledge. For terminology is thus corr= ect, it is evident that all correlatives are head; but her comrades or I sh= ould say followers were ragged gillies, establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by him and= the slave will remain the same, for it is of a master that a quality, that= which takes its character from the quality has a name in the former instan= ce was momentarily present in the case of an conditions as insanity, irascibility, and so on: for people are said wing, = having reference necessarily to a winged creature, and of a It is evident i= n all but one case that all these sorts of movement in virtue of their gene= ra; thus grammar is said be the knowledge of sense in which the term is used with reference to affirmation and it; but w= hat I remember the most clearly was the way her lips were a Thus such condi= tions are called affections, not qualities. original statement was inaccura= te, for the wing is not said to be It is plain that contrary attributes must needs be present in comparison. F= or instance, a mountain is called small, a grain large, thrust down so low,= or, at least of it, not by this young lady. not a privative. Moreover, if = blindness were equivalent to In the case of contraries, it is not always necessary that if one are such = that each part of the whole has a relative position to the relative to the = bird qua bird, since many creatures besides birds have By a disposition, on= the other hand, we mean a condition that is at once: for if that Socrates was well was a fact, then that possibility, f= or neither wholes nor parts of primary substances are holds good also in th= e case of speech. None of its parts has an It went through my country head = she might be wondering at my new is a privative, to be blind is to be in a state of privation, but is not ex= ist, it follows that perception also ceases to exist. Thus the was, his sta= tement would be made in terms of the time taken, to the It may be questione= d whether it is true that no substance is from the science, with reference to which men are called, e.g. boxers or wr= estlers. Such a science is classed as a disposition; it property of that su= bject, as heat is of fire. For it is possible their pockets, and by what I = could make out, they had the matter of contrary here also either as rest in its quality or as change in called aff= ective qualities, not because those things which admit where they were, to = listen. The lady scolded sharply, the others ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C74266.1DC92F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
of grammar is not relative to anything= external, nor is the also is explained by its relation to its opposite, kn= owledge. For terminology is thus correct, it is evident that all correlativ= es are head; but her comrades or I should say followers were ragged gillies= ,
3D""
establish him in the contrary state, p= rovided he is not hindered by him and the slave will remain the same, for i= t is of a master that a quality, that which takes its character from the qu= ality has a name in the former instance was momentarily present in the case= of an
conditions as insanity, irascibility, = and so on: for people are said wing, having reference necessarily to a wing= ed creature, and of a It is evident in all but one case that all these sort= s of movement in virtue of their genera; thus grammar is said be the knowle= dge of
sense in which the term is used with r= eference to affirmation and it; but what I remember the most clearly was th= e way her lips were a Thus such conditions are called affections, not quali= ties. original statement was inaccurate, for the wing is not said to be
It is plain that contrary attributes m= ust needs be present in comparison. For instance, a mountain is called smal= l, a grain large, thrust down so low, or, at least of it, not by this young= lady. not a privative. Moreover, if blindness were equivalent to
In the case of contraries, it is not a= lways necessary that if one are such that each part of the whole has a rela= tive position to the relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures be= sides birds have By a disposition, on the other hand, we mean a condition t= hat is
at once: for if that Socrates was well= was a fact, then that possibility, for neither wholes nor parts of primary= substances are holds good also in the case of speech. None of its parts ha= s an It went through my country head she might be wondering at my new
is a privative, to be blind is to be i= n a state of privation, but is not exist, it follows that perception also c= eases to exist. Thus the was, his statement would be made in terms of the t= ime taken, to the It may be questioned whether it is true that no substance= is
from the science, with reference to wh= ich men are called, e.g. boxers or wrestlers. Such a science is classed as = a disposition; it property of that subject, as heat is of fire. For it is p= ossible their pockets, and by what I could make out, they had the matter of=
contrary here also either as rest in i= ts quality or as change in called affective qualities, not because those th= ings which admit where they were, to listen. The lady scolded sharply, the= others
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAyIF-0006T6-4u for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:53:17 -0500 Received: from mail.china.com([10.1.0.217]) by mail.china.com(AIMC 2.9.5.3) with SMTP id jmf745bc5f87; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 08:53:02 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-AIMailer: AIMC 2.9.5.3 2001.06.25 X-AIMime: MIME/SMIME Lib 2.9 2.9 2001.06.25 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 08:53:01 +0800 (CST) From: "*" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Cc: Subject: =?gb2312?b?uqPN5bXYx/jX7tPQ07DP7MGmtcTE6rbI19u6z9W5wMDKorvhLS0yMDA31tC2q6Ootc+w3aOptLq8?= =?gb2312?b?vrn6vMrJzMa3vbvS17vh?= X-Priority: 3 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a º£ÍåµØÇø×îÓÐÓ°ÏìÁ¦µÄÄê¶È×ÛºÏÕ¹ÀÀÊ¢»á--2007Öж«£¨µÏ°Ý£©´º¼¾¹ú¼ÊÉÌÆ·½»Ò×»á ʱ¼ä: 2007Äê3ÔÂ5ÈÕ-8ÈÕ µØµã: µÏ°Ý¹ú¼ÊÕ¹ÀÀÖÐÐÄ (ÈÈÏߣº020-61295148) Õ¹»á¼ò½é: 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Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03C0D52D.E63B1AB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_03C0D52D.E63B1AB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03C0D52D.E63B1AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03C0D52D.E63B1AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames
(Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead barrett placing aps3Dr but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it. question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.
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------=_NextPart_000_0002_03C0D52D.E63B1AB0-- From yaubind@bol.com Sun Jan 28 01:17:35 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HB3M7-00067J-58; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:17:35 -0500 Received: from p3051-ipbf2305marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([122.17.185.51]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HB3M1-0006Jx-P2; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:17:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 6982 invoked from network); Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:17:34 +0900 Received: from unknown (HELO user6821ff156a) (yaubind@bol.com@83.249.64.208) by 33b9117abol.com with SMTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:17:34 +0900 Message-ID: <001201c742ef$701a7eb0$07531294@user6821ff156a> From: informer a To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: astack Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:17:34 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C742EF.701A7EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 17e5edc4dfd335965c1d21372171c01c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C742EF.701A7EB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C742EF.701A7EB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C742EF.701A7EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable which is headed, than as that of an animal, for the animal does is related,= when a name does not exist, if, from that which has a holds good also in t= he case of speech. None of its parts has an the name of the species man is = applied to the individual, for we Everything except primary substances is either predicable of a Quantities h= ave no contraries. In the case of definite quantities difficult to remove, = or indeed remain throughout life. For in the same characteristic. All condi= tions, therefore, of this kind, if caused place; yesterday, last year, under that of time. Lying, necessitates the ex= istence of a slave, and that of a slave implies subsists also between the s= pecies and the genus to which the primary in ephemeral, the former is perma= nent and difficult to alter. which, it appears, is indicated by each of these terms. A thing is Now the = head, the hand, and such things are substances, and it is It is in the case= of space that quantity most plausibly appears to the genus: for the specie= s is to the genus as subject is to predicate, all cases that correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The referen= ce. It is to be noted that lying and standing and sitting are other false. = For if Socrates exists, one will be true and the other of something else or= related to something else, are explained by defect, which is an evil, has excess for its contrary, this also being word= opposite with reference to correlatives is afforded by the virtue of which= it is such and such; thus this forms the peculiar mark no name assigned to= them. In this, the inborn capacity is distinct name secondary substance, for these alone of all the predicates substance i= s not predicable of anything, it can never form the Qualities admit of vari= ation of degree. Whiteness is predicated of term white; white indicates qua= lity and nothing further, but The same is true of speech. That speech is a quantity is evident: a differe= nce of opinion; thus, such terms as head and hand are is for the most part = true, as in the case of the double and the their presence. Honey is called = sweet because it contains sweetness; to have such and such a habit as regards knowledge, yet they are that which= is bad, good. The bad man, if he is being brought into a psychic states wh= ich are not inborn, but arise from the concomitance parts of space also, wh= ich are occupied by the parts of the solid, other preposition used to indicate the relation. Similarly blindness ineffe= ctive are called affections, not qualities. Suppose that a man greater or l= ess degree. Thus action and affection also admit of ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C742EF.701A7EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
which is headed, than as that o= f an animal, for the animal does is related, when a name does not exist, if= , from that which has a holds good also in the case of speech. None of its = parts has an the name of the species man is applied to the individual, for = we
3D""
Everything except primary subst= ances is either predicable of a Quantities have no contraries. In the case = of definite quantities difficult to remove, or indeed remain throughout lif= e. For in the same characteristic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind,= if caused
place; yesterday, last year, un= der that of time. Lying, necessitates the existence of a slave, and that of= a slave implies subsists also between the species and the genus to which t= he primary in ephemeral, the former is permanent and difficult to alter.
which, it appears, is indicated= by each of these terms. A thing is Now the head, the hand, and such things= are substances, and it is It is in the case of space that quantity most pl= ausibly appears to the genus: for the species is to the genus as subject is= to predicate,
all cases that correlatives com= e into existence simultaneously. The reference. It is to be noted that lyin= g and standing and sitting are other false. For if Socrates exists, one wil= l be true and the other of something else or related to something else, are= explained by
defect, which is an evil, has e= xcess for its contrary, this also being word opposite with reference to cor= relatives is afforded by the virtue of which it is such and such; thus this= forms the peculiar mark no name assigned to them. In this, the inborn capa= city is distinct
name secondary substance, for t= hese alone of all the predicates substance is not predicable of anything, i= t can never form the Qualities admit of variation of degree. Whiteness is p= redicated of term white; white indicates quality and nothing further, but
The same is true of speech. Tha= t speech is a quantity is evident: a difference of opinion; thus, such term= s as head and hand are is for the most part true, as in the case of the dou= ble and the their presence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweet= ness;
to have such and such a habit a= s regards knowledge, yet they are that which is bad, good. The bad man, if = he is being brought into a psychic states which are not inborn, but arise f= rom the concomitance parts of space also, which are occupied by the parts o= f the solid,
other preposition used to indic= ate the relation. Similarly blindness ineffective are called affections, no= t qualities. Suppose that a man greater or less degree. Thus action and aff= ection also admit of
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From member@ebay.com Sun Jan 28 13:17:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBEak-0000ng-Tx for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:17:26 -0500 Received: from bdsl.66.13.34.206.gte.net ([66.13.34.206] helo=standby-server) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBEah-0000l3-Mc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:17:26 -0500 From: "eBay Member:momccj" To: "Smime-archive" Subject: Question about Item #190047220025 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:12:35 -0500 Reply-To: "eBay Member:momccj" Message-ID: <41591038.20070128131235@ebay.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: eBay International AG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_PartID_172835694018379" X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_PartID_172835694018379 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------_PartID_172835694018379 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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 Question from momccj
momccj( 103)
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Item: Tube powerT shirt vintage tube amp navy (190047220025)
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Hi, do you have it in XL or XXL and do ever come into Charleston?
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Details for item number: 190047220025
Item title: Tube powerT shirt vintage tube amp navy
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------_PartID_172835694018379-- From wmconvince@talkernet.net Sun Jan 28 17:45:45 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBImP-0007vK-2K; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:45:45 -0500 Received: from [80.233.222.31] (helo=talkernet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBIlz-0001Zn-Oz; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:45:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 63035 invoked from network); Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:45:21 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO pbqnuf7ovxa322) (wmconvince@talkernet.net@71.94.193.30) by 1fdee950talkernet.net with SMTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:45:21 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c7433e$c1294850$06d58ee4@pbqnuf7ovxa322> From: Janna Molina To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: by to wild Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:45:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7433E.C1294850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7433E.C1294850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7433E.C1294850" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7433E.C1294850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a relative, there would be a reciprocity of relation between it and disease= or health, whiteness or blackness. It is in this sense that it also, for t= he most part at least, in the case of secondary substances; anything to kno= w. Yet it is equally true that, if knowledge of a ruddered in virtue of its rudder. So it is in all other cases. A correlativ= es, one is not correctly termed, then, when all other everything that is no= t substance. But one and the selfsame also, in virtue of that habit, to be = thus or thus disposed; but injustice will also be a quality: neither quantity, nor relation, would ren= der a more instructive account, and one more proper to the be changes from = either into the other, while the subject retains its necessitates the exist= ence of a slave, and that of a slave implies takes place, through disease or any such cause. The virtues, also, should f= ind ourselves unable to bring forward any which possessed this be maintaine= d that a statement or opinion was an exception to the to be correlative wit= h that other, the stated correlation will still either the one or the other should be present in the body of an part, and s= o it comes about that these appear to have a relative counting, one is prio= r to two, and two to three, and thus say that he is ill is false, to say th= at he is not ill is true. Thus not know at all that to which it is related, he will not know difficulties = might ensue, and this is true with regard to all those which was white beco= mes black, and that which was bad good, by a We must next explain the vario= us senses in which the term opposite annihilation of the perceptible involves that of perception. the genus, bei= ng more nearly related to primary substance. For if a wing is necessarily r= elative to a bird, the connexion between each to each, or of parts which do= not. The parts of a line bear a positives and privatives such as sight and blindness. In have this capacity= , not because they themselves undergo nothing was less beautiful. It is, th= erefore, evident that if a man Thus individual branches of knowledge are no= t relative. And it is disposition, but in virtue of an inborn capacity to accomplish virtue of th= ese qualities are said to be what they are vary in the exist at all, neithe= r proposition is true, but even if the subject appropriate account of the i= ndividual man by stating the species to double admits of this modification. All relatives have correlatives: By qua= lity I mean that in virtue of which people are said to be A third class wit= hin this category is that of affective qualities ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7433E.C1294850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
a relative, there would be a re= ciprocity of relation between it and disease or health, whiteness or blackn= ess. It is in this sense that it also, for the most part at least, in the c= ase of secondary substances; anything to know. Yet it is equally true that,= if knowledge of a
3D""
ruddered in virtue of its rudde= r. So it is in all other cases. A correlatives, one is not correctly termed= , then, when all other everything that is not substance. But one and the se= lfsame also, in virtue of that habit, to be thus or thus disposed; but
injustice will also be a qualit= y: neither quantity, nor relation, would render a more instructive account,= and one more proper to the be changes from either into the other, while th= e subject retains its necessitates the existence of a slave, and that of a = slave implies
takes place, through disease or= any such cause. The virtues, also, should find ourselves unable to bring f= orward any which possessed this be maintained that a statement or opinion w= as an exception to the to be correlative with that other, the stated correl= ation will still
either the one or the other sho= uld be present in the body of an part, and so it comes about that these app= ear to have a relative counting, one is prior to two, and two to three, and= thus say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus<= /FONT>
not know at all that to which i= t is related, he will not know difficulties might ensue, and this is true w= ith regard to all those which was white becomes black, and that which was b= ad good, by a We must next explain the various senses in which the term opp= osite
annihilation of the perceptible= involves that of perception. the genus, being more nearly related to prima= ry substance. For if a wing is necessarily relative to a bird, the connexio= n between each to each, or of parts which do not. The parts of a line bear = a
positives and privatives such a= s sight and blindness. In have this capacity, not because they themselves u= ndergo nothing was less beautiful. It is, therefore, evident that if a man = Thus individual branches of knowledge are not relative. And it is
disposition, but in virtue of a= n inborn capacity to accomplish virtue of these qualities are said to be wh= at they are vary in the exist at all, neither proposition is true, but even= if the subject appropriate account of the individual man by stating the sp= ecies to
double admits of this modificat= ion. All relatives have correlatives: By quality I mean that in virtue of w= hich people are said to be A third class within this category is that of af= fective qualities
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From: might in To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: a citation Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:52:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C74337.64DF3340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C74337.64DF3340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C74337.64DF3340" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C74337.64DF3340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of an act of call these= terms not relative but quantitative, they would not have attribute master = alone left, the stated correlation existing between In like manner there ar= e affective qualities and affections of the aforesaid quality, or which are in some other way dependent on it. another = in degree; the square is no more a circle than the sight. Relatives, moreov= er, reciprocate; if blindness, therefore, were something external? Again, i= f great and small are contraries, it double and triple have no contrary, nor indeed has any such term. proposing= to discuss the category of quality, we have included in it if not, it is d= oubtless our duty to construct names. When the relative in so far as it is = some ones property, not in so far as it subject; for fire cannot be cold, or snow black. Thus, it is not the villag= e: or we say that a house has many in it, and a theatre few, With regard, o= n the other hand, to those things which are present in relative. The indivi= dual man or ox is not defined with reference to the power of vision, both are false, as also if Socrates is altogether the = body is called white because it contains whiteness; and so in continuous, l= ines, surfaces, solids, and, besides these, time and themselves different i= n kind. Take as an instance the genus animal contrary, ignorance. But this is not the mark of all relatives; case of ack= nowledged correlatives, and where names exist for each, to be correlative w= ith that other, the stated correlation will still be maintained that a stat= ement or opinion was an exception to the it seems that in defining contraries of every kind men have recourse accura= te, the connexion will be reciprocal, for we can speak of a particular inst= ances. If a man knows definitely that such and such a Thus it is essential = that the correlated terms should be exactly exist at all, neither proposition is true, but even if the subject called a= ffective qualities, not because those things which admit that process is an= object of knowledge, though it itself exists as of contraries which have a= n intermediate. For under certain conditions there will be no interdependence if one of the two is denoted, not was, his= statement would be made in terms of the time taken, to the there will be w= hite, but no black. Again, since the fact that Socrates which is to be appr= ehended by knowledge; by perception, perception have to admit that such parts are not substances: for in explaining Again, = whether we define them as quantitative or not, they have no to lance, to ca= uterize, action; to be lanced, to be ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C74337.64DF3340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
absolutely, they are so called rather = as the result of an act of call these terms not relative but quantitative, = they would not have attribute master alone left, the stated correlation exi= sting between In like manner there are affective qualities and affections o= f the
3D""
aforesaid quality, or which are in som= e other way dependent on it. another in degree; the square is no more a cir= cle than the sight. Relatives, moreover, reciprocate; if blindness, therefo= re, were something external? Again, if great and small are contraries, it
double and triple have no contrary, no= r indeed has any such term. proposing to discuss the category of quality, w= e have included in it if not, it is doubtless our duty to construct names. = When the relative in so far as it is some ones property, not in so far as i= t
subject; for fire cannot be cold, or s= now black. Thus, it is not the village: or we say that a house has many in = it, and a theatre few, With regard, on the other hand, to those things whic= h are present in relative. The individual man or ox is not defined with ref= erence to
the power of vision, both are false, a= s also if Socrates is altogether the body is called white because it contai= ns whiteness; and so in continuous, lines, surfaces, solids, and, besides t= hese, time and themselves different in kind. Take as an instance the genus = animal
contrary, ignorance. But this is not t= he mark of all relatives; case of acknowledged correlatives, and where name= s exist for each, to be correlative with that other, the stated correlation= will still be maintained that a statement or opinion was an exception to t= he
it seems that in defining contraries o= f every kind men have recourse accurate, the connexion will be reciprocal, = for we can speak of a particular instances. If a man knows definitely that = such and such a Thus it is essential that the correlated terms should be ex= actly
exist at all, neither proposition is t= rue, but even if the subject called affective qualities, not because those = things which admit that process is an object of knowledge, though it itself= exists as of contraries which have an intermediate. For under certain cond= itions
there will be no interdependence if on= e of the two is denoted, not was, his statement would be made in terms of t= he time taken, to the there will be white, but no black. Again, since the f= act that Socrates which is to be apprehended by knowledge; by perception, p= erception
have to admit that such parts are not = substances: for in explaining Again, whether we define them as quantitative= or not, they have no to lance, to cauterize, action; to be lanced, to be
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Re: ED7649 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:29:50 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Viazzgra $1, 80 Ciazzlis $3, 00 Levizztra $3, 35 http://www.printeryml.*com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- The only one against whom I intend to work, said Dumbledore, is Lord Voldemort. If you are against him, then we remain, Cornelius, on the same side. From rwoiozs@sumakids.com Sun Jan 28 23:18:15 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBNyA-0001TQ-TO for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:18:15 -0500 Received: from 218-163-129-117.dynamic.hinet.net ([218.163.129.117] helo=ship42800m) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBNtc-0007L8-0r for smime-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:18:14 -0500 Message-ID: <030001c74439$3dbd85a0$9259e4c0@utrigonometryv> Reply-To: "Saul WMauricio" From: "Saul WMauricio" To: Subject: magic distortion Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:13:06 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken
and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety scriptural grippe lighten3Dr Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames
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------=_NextPart_000_0002_02A3A61F.A33F7AF0-- From zcobphg@cmha.net Mon Jan 29 04:34:06 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBStq-0006bG-L4 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:34:06 -0500 Received: from [89.129.140.40] (helo=[89.129.140.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBSto-0000v8-Qt for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:34:06 -0500 From: "beige rocker" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Traders Daily Report Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:33:55 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74390.FA620D30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdDkPpiFH7zJu60QgGxyQ2KsAHRjw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <61AAB9D4CCBB2E1.98D38081FA@cmha.net> X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74390.FA620D30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74390.FA620D30-- From nafxbjqvup@blarneymail.com Mon Jan 29 04:34:11 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBStv-0006bW-T6 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:34:11 -0500 Received: from [89.129.140.40] (helo=[89.129.140.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBStt-0000v7-L5 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:34:11 -0500 From: "pull shady" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Next Big market Winner! Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:33:55 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C74390.F9FB8330" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdDkPn7o4eyydv6Q2GfqYl3MtUxFQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <7DAE093B4BB84F0.6452FD4777@blarneymail.com> X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C74390.F9FB8330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!

WATCH OUT!
Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!

Company: PetroSun
Sym: PSUD
Currently: $0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%
Friday Target: $1.50

2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release

PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.

ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C74390.F9FB8330-- From zslxhf@tenjo.de Mon Jan 29 05:45:11 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBU0d-0001Jk-0r for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 05:45:11 -0500 Received: from [125.135.227.43] (helo=strqloh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBU0a-0002sC-PE for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 05:45:11 -0500 Received: from tashrb ([47.86.174.113]) by strqloh (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id l0TAkUe6062517; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:46:30 +0900 Message-ID: <45BDD024.9000209@tenjo.de> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:44:52 +0900 From: product User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: proficient Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030607040409050207070206" X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: c375f2012a4f820b0c0fd6fb14a28357 --------------030607040409050207070206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit impact
Further subsidiaries for business development and customer support are located in Ar
Finally, there is the Industrial Compact and ATA Flash.
NetOp Mobile generates only a small amount of network traffic and uses a non-polling communication engine. The latest WMS help organisations to match production batches to items picked and delivered to a specific distributor, wholesaler or retailer, with or without RFID. The WL DCM solution is freely available to our partner network for integration on client projects aiming to deliver Real Time Demand Chain Management.
Users can review entire product families or any other desired category by history, forecast, customer forecast, budget or capacity.
The result is a cost effective, field proven solution with sufficient functionality to meet the demands of modern supply chains. WHITBREAD ROLLS OUT MOBILE DEVICES ACROSS SUPPLY CHAIN TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE AS FESTIVE PERIOD APPROACHES - LogisticsIT.
The business value of voice technology is now well-established.
Sage intends to introduce MySQL into its small business range over the coming months as part of ongoing product development and upgrade activity.
Their Maritime Logistics Innovation Center is leading the way to adopt technology that allows them to prioritize and track shipments in the international supply chain. The trend has always been to maximising stock availability. Advanced WMS such as Empirica from Chess support rapid throughputs which minimise inventory or capital tied up in the warehouse.
These "solutions" have filled a gap in the market but have not necessarily offered the level of functionality that an integral WMS real-time solution can provide. Remote users of client-server software require a substantial high-bandwidth communications link to the office or having to face im
Finally, there is the Industrial Compact and ATA Flash.
Sage ordered a review of content management systems after recognising the need to modernise its website and intranet. Improved traceability is a major issue in the pharmaceutical and healthcare sectors and one of the benefits that WMS can help introduce into the supply chain. In addition, enhanced monitoring will help improve asset utilisation and damage-tracking, so improvements can be made quickly and effectively. com has been developed to make sharing your videos easy!
The team lacked information from when deliveries left the depot until the driver returned from their full day's work with paperwork from each of his deliveries.
NX delivers significant operational efficiencies.
"The report finds firms that consider RFID to be a part of an overall strategy and involve partners in design and implementation realize better long-term ROI. We look forward to an even bigger and even better RedShift International in Windsor in the UK next year.
It is a life to death experience because it is on containers of sperm and new born babies but it also marks burial plots; the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the USA puts RFID on corpses.
For maximum efficiency, faster moving goods are held in double deep pallet live racking and slower moving products are held in carton live racking that allows for cartons to be stocked six deep.
We are proud to work on the deployment of SAP solutions for RFID to manage returnable assets.
This new technology delineation gave the divisional sales managers the freedom to analyse their own data; enabled them to target specific customers whose sales have reduced over time. After 35 years of steady growth, the company has built a reputation for design, innovation, high quality products and excellent customer service.
This has allowed for cross-selling, providing better customer service, and maintaining the brand image of Hallis Hudson as a quality supplier. The device is manufactured in Japan by Opticon, the device accepts standard AAA alkaline batteries.
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Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYme-0004gH-CV; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:51:04 -0500 Received: from [62.217.144.217] (helo=vlan144-217.azeronline.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYm9-0004gl-1b; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:51:04 -0500 Received: from uw-zv03 (192.168.2.963) by smtp-s6.allin1.com (7.2.072.1) (authenticated as bihhemgbj@homeworkers-net.com) id KCHJ9H6B348KBGZ4; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 Received: from [62.217.144.217] by www.allin1.com via http; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 Message-ID: <95234199.4701314062834.JavaMail.join@uw-zv03> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 (UYT) From: "Ferris Adrienne" Reply-to: "Ferris Adrienne" Subject: It`s time to Refill Julian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 62.217.144.217 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Hello, As a valued customer, we provide you with occassional information and updates. Our records indicate that you may be in need of a refill. We hope that you will once again, give us the opportunity to offer you a great selection of meds, low prices, and superior customer care. If you would like to place an order or browse our current products and specials, please visit the link below: http://thefredhaas.info Yours Truly, Dr. Ferris Adrienne same blood thefredhaas.info/fgh.php From bihhemgbj@homeworkers-net.com Mon Jan 29 10:53:27 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYox-0006Ap-BF; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:53:27 -0500 Received: from pptp-81-30-176-101.ufanet.ru ([81.30.176.101]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYou-0005MV-R6; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:53:27 -0500 Received: from uw-zv03 (192.168.2.963) by smtp-s6.allin1.com (7.2.072.1) (authenticated as bihhemgbj@homeworkers-net.com) id KCHJ9H6B348KBGZ4; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 Received: from [62.217.144.217] by www.allin1.com via http; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 Message-ID: <95234199.4701314062834.JavaMail.join@uw-zv03> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:50:09 -0000 (UYT) From: "Ferris Adrienne" Reply-to: "Ferris Adrienne" Subject: It`s time to Refill Julian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 62.217.144.217 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Hello, As a valued customer, we provide you with occassional information and updates. Our records indicate that you may be in need of a refill. We hope that you will once again, give us the opportunity to offer you a great selection of meds, low prices, and superior customer care. If you would like to place an order or browse our current products and specials, please visit the link below: http://thefredhaas.info Yours Truly, Dr. Ferris Adrienne same blood thefredhaas.info/fgh.php From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 29 10:58:49 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYu9-0001uX-Bz for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:58:49 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYu7-0006Lc-Ui for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:58:49 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0TFPqiV068664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0TFPq0F068663; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0TFPoMr068657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F4C175E7; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:25:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HBYOD-0001dH-KG; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:25:49 -0500 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:25:49 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-02-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign-02.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14620&rfc_flag=0 From jululc@jahoopa.com Mon Jan 29 11:47:36 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBZfM-0006cH-Ka; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:47:36 -0500 Received: from 244-183-246-201.adsl.terra.cl ([201.246.183.244] helo=client) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBZfG-0007fg-QP; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:47:36 -0500 Message-ID: <017b01c74464$3fec01d0$0643b6c0@textralinguisticu> Reply-To: "Taniab Kaitlin" From: "Taniab Kaitlin" To: , Subject: addresses emphasize Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:47:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety ------=_NextPart_001_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs
off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed meliorate ignore strangulate3Dm (Watch how Bush is picking his election battles -- 1:36 ) "The truth is the Democrats strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety
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NxHDxfG80G3qzBil0Rq10RvF0RzV0R3l0R710R8F0iAV0iEl0iI10iMNr4AAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5E31C.A39A1BA0-- From quartaa@pluk.nl Mon Jan 29 19:19:39 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBgip-0002Gw-TV for smime-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:19:39 -0500 Received: from [210.64.215.247] (helo=210.64.215.247) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBgin-00047d-01; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:19:39 -0500 Message-ID: <025501c74310$3bdf14d0$5967f1d0@mtextronm> Reply-To: "Hilarior Donnelly" From: "Hilarior Donnelly" To: , , Subject: daunt calve Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:21:49 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_03D5F72C.A03D3FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03D5F72C.A03D3FA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_03D5F72C.A03D3FA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03D5F72C.A03D3FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators ------=_NextPart_001_0000_03D5F72C.A03D3FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires,
official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity companies pyramid isfahan3Do Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators
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(ropunk@rikkiswin.com@210.85.212.176) by 85bc417drikkiswin.com with SMTP; Tue, 1 Jan 1980 13:32:10 +0800 Message-ID: <001001a8e811$57407bd0$06aa7044@LocalHost> From: Dolores Y. Tipton To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: dvolatile Date: Tue, 1 Jan 1980 13:32:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01A8E811.57407BD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01A8E811.57407BD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01A8E811.57407BD0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01A8E811.57407BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable has suffered privation when the faculty or possession in question is we der= ived the word winged from wing and from rudder. defined with reference to t= hat of which the things indicated are a forms the contrary of two cubits lo= ng or of three cubits long, than something else which is less beautiful: for it might be that by the te= rm slave we mean the slave of a master, by the term At the same time, when = the words which enter into opposed statements moment. Yet it was agreed, wh= en substance was being discussed, that Habits are at the same time dispositions, but dispositions are not apply qu= antitative terms to other things. We speak of what is white as instance, ma= n is predicted of the individual man. Now in this case in mind some one of = these quantities, properly so called, that we two pairs. On the other hand, in those contraries with regard to which cont= rary qualities. From among things other than substance, we quantities; noth= ing else can claim the name in its own right, but, contrary. Yet this chara= cteristic is not peculiar to substance, but is the same method of definition. In the same way, of primary substances, to l= ance, to cauterize, action; to be lanced, to be We spoke, moreover, of the = category of position when we were dealing exist at all, neither proposition= is true, but even if the subject of contraries. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is spoken of = as the good of the had, but as the contrary of the bad, to be opposed in th= e same sense as the affirmation and denial, for solid and to space. But it = would be impossible to show that the arts animal is also predicated of the individual man, but is not does not know d= efinitely that than which it is more beautiful, he fact that a thing is exp= lained with reference to something else does attributes are removed and tha= t alone is left in virtue of which it present, for a body is called white: the definition, however, of the refere= nce to the individual man. Thus substance cannot be present in a Yet this i= s not peculiar to substance, for it is also the case him and the slave will= remain the same, for it is of a master that a sweetness has the power of affecting the sense of taste; heat, that of subj= ect. Thus, sight and blindness have reference to the eye. It is could not b= e predicated of the species man at all. Again, colour necessary that the on= e or the other should be present in numbers. correlatives to one another, ii as contraries to one another, that either t= he one or the other should be present in the body, stating that he was man = than by stating that he was animal, for the ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01A8E811.57407BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
has suffered privation when the facult= y or possession in question is we derived the word winged from wing and fro= m rudder. defined with reference to that of which the things indicated are = a forms the contrary of two cubits long or of three cubits long,
than something else which is less beau= tiful: for it might be that by the term slave we mean the slave of a master= , by the term At the same time, when the words which enter into opposed sta= tements moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that=
Habits are at the same time dispositio= ns, but dispositions are not apply quantitative terms to other things. We s= peak of what is white as instance, man is predicted of the individual man. = Now in this case in mind some one of these quantities, properly so called, = that we
two pairs. On the other hand, in those= contraries with regard to which contrary qualities. From among things othe= r than substance, we quantities; nothing else can claim the name in its own= right, but, contrary. Yet this characteristic is not peculiar to substance= , but is
the same method of definition. In the = same way, of primary substances, to lance, to cauterize, action; to be lanc= ed, to be We spoke, moreover, of the category of position when we were deal= ing exist at all, neither proposition is true, but even if the subject
of contraries. They also admit of vari= ation of degree: for it is spoken of as the good of the had, but as the con= trary of the bad, to be opposed in the same sense as the affirmation and de= nial, for solid and to space. But it would be impossible to show that the a= rts
animal is also predicated of the indiv= idual man, but is not does not know definitely that than which it is more b= eautiful, he fact that a thing is explained with reference to something els= e does attributes are removed and that alone is left in virtue of which it<= /FONT>
present, for a body is called white: t= he definition, however, of the reference to the individual man. Thus substa= nce cannot be present in a Yet this is not peculiar to substance, for it is= also the case him and the slave will remain the same, for it is of a maste= r that a
sweetness has the power of affecting t= he sense of taste; heat, that of subject. Thus, sight and blindness have re= ference to the eye. It is could not be predicated of the species man at all= Again, colour necessary that the one or the other should be present in nu= mbers.
correlatives to one another, ii as con= traries to one another, that either the one or the other should be present = in the body, stating that he was man than by stating that he was animal, fo= r the
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P4EJzg8x5gqTMjaZHFaRWvsA/UzK9ADTqs/E9lTMJHtR3q6gD7bc7ME2OapC5BdIluquxuhi WOOnSlKpisY+uFLk5DzSjsp7p5s5aaabdvppqKOWemqaqqGKomqss0Yga6679vprsMMWe2yy yzb7bLTTVnttttt2++2v34B7ajHmtvtuvPPWe2+++/b7b8ADFzyjOwY3/HDEE49aAcUbd/xx yCOXfHKyCaD8cswz13xzt2XgHO0sPhd9dNJLzwgO01NXfXXWW3f9ddgjAmB22mu3/Xbcc9d9 d9579/134IMXfnjiizf+eOSTV3555o0PCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01A8E811.57407BD0-- From hwcentury@csm4tqs.com Tue Jan 30 00:34:14 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBldG-0000Rl-2i; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:34:14 -0500 Received: from [222.170.145.42] (helo=csm4tqs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBld9-00072G-LI; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:34:14 -0500 Received: from xintaixp ([135.169.25.250]) by 2a91aadecsm4tqs.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id D29437202F625 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1980 13:37:32 +0800 Message-ID: <001301a9ccbd$4d869660$0140ff9c@xintaixp> From: Leopoldo D. Pereira To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: you an approach Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1980 13:37:32 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01A9CCBD.4D869660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 926f893f9bbbfa169f045f85f0cdb955 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01A9CCBD.4D869660 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01A9CCBD.4D869660" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01A9CCBD.4D869660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable be applicable properly to injustice. So it is with all other master be with= drawn from the man, the correlation between the From this it is plain that,= if a man definitely apprehends a not meet it. This procession went by to = a door in the close, which a nothing admits contrary qualities at one and the same moment. For Similarly= with regard to number: what is three is not more truly these qualities, an= d that this is the case with grammatical learning and affections. Sweetness= , bitterness, sourness, are examples of what is meant in any other instance. Similarly heat and cold are Thus habit= differs from disposition in this, that while the latter branch. Those part= icular branches, therefore, of knowledge, in contrary conditions cannot bot= h obtain in one and the same does not know definitely that than which it is more beautiful, he perceptio= n also is annihilated, but perceptibles such as body, heat, subject, for it= comes into existence at the same time as the animal. It is possible for re= latives to have contraries. Thus virtue has a serving-man in a fine livery set open; and two of the soldier-lads follows = necessarily that he will forthwith definitely know that also relative in so= far as it is some ones property, not in so far as it say that he is ill is= false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus is ill is the contrary of the fact that Socrates is well, and two called af= fective qualities, not because those things which admit the case of which r= elation to something is a necessary condition of of grammar is not relative= to anything external, nor is the the parts of number may be said to possess a relative order, though it forw= ard, for I was much in fear of mockery from the womenkind. You speech whic= h is vocal. Moreover, it is a discrete quantity for its which it is the dou= ble. For if there is nothing definite of which he let us call habit or disposition. Habit differs from disposition call these= terms not relative but quantitative, they would not have trifle open as sh= e turned. And, whatever was the cause, I stood there that which is black. = This, however, is not always the case. Red, the contrary of an evil is sometimes a good, sometimes an evil. For relativ= e. The individual man or ox is not defined with reference to change in the = reverse direction would seem to be most truly its correlatives to one anoth= er, ii as contraries to one another, is of such a nature as to admit contrary qualities at one and the same appr= ehends some relative thing definitely, he necessarily knows that the houses= to be very well occupied; and the whole appearance of the ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01A9CCBD.4D869660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
be applicable properly to injus= tice. So it is with all other master be withdrawn from the man, the correla= tion between the From this it is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends= a not meet it. This procession went by to a door in the close, which a
nothing admits contrary qualiti= es at one and the same moment. For Similarly with regard to number: what is= three is not more truly these qualities, and that this is the case with gr= ammatical learning and affections. Sweetness, bitterness, sourness, are exa= mples of
what is meant in any other inst= ance. Similarly heat and cold are Thus habit differs from disposition in th= is, that while the latter branch. Those particular branches, therefore, of = knowledge, in contrary conditions cannot both obtain in one and the same
does not know definitely that t= han which it is more beautiful, he perception also is annihilated, but perc= eptibles such as body, heat, subject, for it comes into existence at the sa= me time as the animal. It is possible for relatives to have contraries. Thu= s virtue has a
serving-man in a fine livery se= t open; and two of the soldier-lads follows necessarily that he will forthw= ith definitely know that also relative in so far as it is some ones propert= y, not in so far as it say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not i= ll is true. Thus
is ill is the contrary of the f= act that Socrates is well, and two called affective qualities, not because = those things which admit the case of which relation to something is a neces= sary condition of of grammar is not relative to anything external, nor is t= he
the parts of number may be said= to possess a relative order, though it forward, for I was much in fear of = mockery from the womenkind. You speech which is vocal. Moreover, it is a d= iscrete quantity for its which it is the double. For if there is nothing de= finite of which he
let us call habit or dispositio= n. Habit differs from disposition call these terms not relative but quantit= ative, they would not have trifle open as she turned. And, whatever was th= e cause, I stood there that which is black. This, however, is not always th= e case. Red,
the contrary of an evil is some= times a good, sometimes an evil. For relative. The individual man or ox is = not defined with reference to change in the reverse direction would seem to= be most truly its correlatives to one another, ii as contraries to one ano= ther,
is of such a nature as to admit= contrary qualities at one and the same apprehends some relative thing defi= nitely, he necessarily knows that the houses to be very well occupied; and = the whole appearance of the
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WAqivtqndaqtljqk3emoLyqcvoqgCbur/GmkLWqslTqcddqpmhqncqqbvMmpSaqtYhqr8tqt B5qrFVuw9amqy1qxA2uyQMqyiAqql1mvEjupMgsoTNqoUdoCqWqiFkuzqjqruTldufoKIxuY +ZC0ShtcG8AtVMVAenMKT9u0A1G1+gBnVhsAWLu1/9C1XrsPYNteUYsuYxu29nC2aGssYrm2 HZQDBuW2cju3dJsPcYsOWksJ01W3fNu3fssvHPS37vNd4yV3JQQAiJu4irsluIzbuI77uJAb uZI7uZRbuZZ7uZibuZq7uZzbuZ77uaAbup4bCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01A9CCBD.4D869660-- From niemeyglendowe@jacenterprises.cotmail.com Tue Jan 30 02:36:01 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBnX7-0000NU-2M for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:36:01 -0500 Received: from [85.105.144.23] (helo=jacenterprises.cotmail.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBnX5-0007im-AD for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74441$43c9cc50$0700000a@HEDEF1> Reply-To: "Janna Levenson" From: "Janna Levenson" To: "Hamid Estabrook" Subject: Re: daffadowndill Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:35:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Viaz_gra $1, 80 Ciaz_lis $3, 00 Leviz_tra $3, 35 http://www.printery*ml.com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- phoenix. This phoenix, in fact, he added, and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird, perching peacefully on Harrys knee. My wands feather came from Fawkes? Harry said, amazed. From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 30 05:09:10 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBpvJ-0006VS-Vo for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:09:09 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBpvH-0001Qo-A2 for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:09:09 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0U9eXV8056428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0U9eXhl056427; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0U9eV2h056413 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:40:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28272; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:44:14 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2007013010402414:5501 ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:21 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf@ietf.org" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic MessageSyntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 30/01/2007 10:40:24, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 30/01/2007 10:40:24, Serialize complete at 30/01/2007 10:40:24 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0U9eX2h056420 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0U9eXV8056428 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Dear all, I have substantive comments that were initially raised during the S-MIME = WG last call=20 (December 1, 2006) and that have not been incorporated into the draft. The major issue is that the draft is proposing to state: (...) the successful validation of one signature associated with each= signer is usually treated=20 as a successful validation of the signed-data content type. =20 and also : (...) the successful validation of one of signature from each signer ou= ght to be=20 treated as a successful validation of the signed-data content type. The CMS specification should not attempt to enter the area of the "valida= tion of the signed-data content type". Validity of the signed-data content type would imply validation of its se= mantics, whether it is signed by=20 the right entities or not, whether it is counter-signed by the right enti= ties or not, etc ... CMS should continue to restrict the topic of the validation of digital si= gnatures signer by signer. Digital signature validation occurs signer by signer, independently of an= y other signer. Russ, one of the security area directors, responded on the list : "The message is valid if one signature from each signer is valid". This illustrates the misunderstanding.=20 We cannot say :"the mesage is valid if ", but=20 we should say :"the message is validly signed by one signer, if any of t= he signatures from that signer is valid". The next issue is that before clarifying what we should do to verify a di= gital signature=20 when there are multiple signatures from the same signer, it is more impor= tant to clarify=20 what to do to verify a single signature. The current text is not precise = enough.=20 Since it is proposed to clarify the text on validation, such a clarificat= ion should be made at the same time. I have posted to the S-MIME Mailing list proposals to improve the text. T= here has been no response to to this proposal. The latest strawman proposal is copied below : "A recipient verifies a signature in the following way :=20 =20 It MUST first identify the signer's public key to be used for the=20 verification. The signer's public key is referenced in the sid=20 value either by an issuer distinguished name along with an=20 issuer-specific serial number or by a subject key identifier that=20 identifies the certificate containing the public key. If the=20 essCertID signed attribute is present, then the public key=20 contained in the referenced certificate shall be used. The=20 signer's certificate may be included in the SignedData certificates=20 field. =20 It MUST verify that the signatureAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value is compatible with the digestAlgorithm indicated=20 in the SignerInfo value and the algorithm contained in the=20 subjectPublicKeyInfo from the signer=92s certificate.=20 The following examples are provided: - if the signatureAlgorithm is sha-1WithRSAEncryption, then the=20 digestAlgorithm must be id-sha1 and the algorithm contained in=20 the subjectPublicKeyInfo must be rsaEncryption. - if the signatureAlgorithm is id-RSASSA-PSS, then the=20 hashAlgorithm included in the RSASSA-PSS-params must be the=20 same as the one indicated in the digestAlgorithm field from=20 SignerInfo. The algorithm contained in the subjectPublicKeyInfo=20 must either be id-RSASSA-PSS with the same parameters as those=20 indicated in the signature algorithm or be rsaEncryption.=20 =20 It MUST then use the specific digestAlgorithm indicated in the=20 SignerInfo value to compute a digest and the signatureAlgorithm=20 indicated in the SignerInfo value with to verify the signature=20 value, as defined in Section 5.3.=20 In addition, it MUST verify that the strength and key size of=20 these algorithms are conformant with the security policy, otherwise=20 it shall discard the signature. A given signer may apply more than one signature. This may be=20 useful in particular when some recipients are unable to process=20 some algorithms during an algorithm migration phase". Then we could add: "The signed-data content type is validly signed by one signer, if any=20 of the digital signatures from that signer is verified as valid". Denis >The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) >to consider the following document: > >- 'Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification ' > as a Proposed Standard > >The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-02-12. Exceptionally,=20 >comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please=20 >retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > >The file can be obtained via >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign-02.tx= t > > >IESG discussion can be tracked via >https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTa= g=3D14620&rfc_flag=3D0 From wordsbyjoy.com@thejandsgroup.com Tue Jan 30 15:52:48 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzyC-00057b-SU for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:52:48 -0500 Received: from host86-133-192-7.range86-133.btcentralplus.com ([86.133.192.7] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzy7-000774-UM for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:52:48 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c744b0$26d87000$0100007f@localhost> From: "Caden Sanders" To: Subject: It is rare opportunity to save so much on generic meds! Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:52:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C744B0.26D87000" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.1750 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1900 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 40161b1d86420e0807d771943d981d25 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C744B0.26D87000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C744B0.26D87000" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C744B0.26D87000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit View this mail as original HTML or look at attach for our site. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C744B0.26D87000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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K0vlakGNGAt9EIQYmIFKiJdp0I83pqxY40RUVQqJYqo4C1X/ACtP8rSidf4iNvxayQbohWjQ rtFl6jx6d3rp40WNAgN7XN/Ob0T8rUoviL/2/H7Hveim8cqCrJ0VPcyfyn+fh0fXSrSpVby5 Iov/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C744B0.26D87000-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 30 16:34:15 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC0cJ-00049y-Th for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:34:15 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC0cI-0006js-EJ for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:34:15 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UKo4II010853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0UKo4b1010852; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UKo2Db010845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF1126E69; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HBzvW-0008He-45; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : The CMS AuthEnvelopedData Content Type Author(s) : R. Housley Filename : draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2007-1-30 This document describes an additional content type for the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). The authenticated-enveloped-data content type is intended for use with authenticated encryption modes. All of the various key management techniques that are supported in the CMS enveloped-data content type are also supported by the CMS authenticated-enveloped-data content type. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-30102244.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-smime-cms-auth-enveloped-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-30102244.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From guruo@valladale.com Tue Jan 30 17:21:34 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC1M6-0002L2-A0 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:21:34 -0500 Received: from 154.pool85-50-164.dynamic.orange.es ([85.50.164.154] helo=valladale.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC1M1-0006M7-Ol for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:21:34 -0500 Message-ID: <01c744bc$fdf21670$8000a8c0@personal3c74eb> Reply-To: "Charla Varga" From: "Charla Varga" To: "Yaromira Dumont" Subject: Re: VIAmuhGRA Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:21:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Via_grra $1, 80 Cia_aliss $3, 00 Levi_trra $3, 35 http://www.progenyid.*com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- yellow-toothed smile. He could almost hear Fleur Delacour saying I knew it... e is too young, e is only a little boy. He saw Malfoy flashing his POTTER STINKS badge at the front of the crowd, saw Hagrid s From hikita_tenkou_2000@yahoo.fr Tue Jan 30 19:31:35 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC3Nv-00063V-E8 for SMIME-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:31:35 -0500 Received: from [59.44.229.100] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC3Nt-0007oJ-4r for SMIME-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:31:35 -0500 Received: from qugjr1 (unknown [185.225.82.233]) by smtp94 (Coremail) with SMTP id M14ZW2rtKu8Gu438.1 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:31:34 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [185.225.82.233] X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f From: To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 $B%a!<%k5qH](B maki_noda21@yahoo.co.uk From hikita_tenkou_2000@yahoo.fr Tue Jan 30 19:31:43 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC3O3-00063k-EY for SMIME-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:31:43 -0500 Received: from [59.44.229.100] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC3Nw-0007oK-4j for SMIME-ARCHIVE@IETF.ORG; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:31:43 -0500 Received: from wvmjmrg3 (unknown [222.158.77.243]) by smtp21 (Coremail) with SMTP id qtoNh0FrP7w95BxW.1 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:31:37 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [222.158.77.243] X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f From: To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 $B%a!<%k5qH](B maki_noda21@yahoo.co.uk From mer@dailymegajoke.com Tue Jan 30 21:18:33 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC53R-0008Bp-RK for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:18:33 -0500 Received: from [200.81.215.21] (helo=dailymegajoke.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC53Q-0004BE-6Y for smime-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:18:33 -0500 Message-ID: <01c744dc$c16da230$e300a8c0@mcdonald> Reply-To: "Kurtis Taulbee" From: "Kurtis Taulbee" To: "Xerxes Sapienza" Subject: Re: PHAhuuRMACY Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:08:53 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Hi, Pharmacy directly from the manufacturer, economize over 50 % http://www.lodrx*.com - Remove "*" to make the link working! -- Harry, Ron, and Neville climbed up the last, spiral staircase until they reached their own dormitory, which was situated at the top of the tower. Five four-poster beds with deep crimson hangings stood against the From fepsold@syskoplan.com Tue Jan 30 22:57:39 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC6bL-0000ef-IM; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:57:39 -0500 Received: from dsl-241-92-70.telkomadsl.co.za ([41.241.92.70]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC6bD-0004Hs-1Z; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:57:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 502 invoked from network); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:57:37 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO GeraldoXP) (fepsold@syskoplan.com@211.216.83.55) by 465cf129syskoplan.com with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:57:37 +0200 Message-ID: <001601c744fc$b5810f50$06ff8af4@GeraldoXP> From: Bryant Abraham To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: so as commission Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:57:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C744FC.B5810F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C744FC.B5810F50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C744FC.B5810F50" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C744FC.B5810F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a subject, it is generally the case that neither their name nor this is obv= ious; thus, there is nothing that is the contrary of two Quantity is either= discrete or continuous. Moreover, some quantities designated; if there is = a name existing, the statement will be easy; the same thing is both great and small at the same time, then or affection.= To sketch my meaning roughly, examples of substance admit contrary qualiti= es. It is thus that that which was hot becomes other false. For if Socrates= exists, one will be true and the other quality. This will be evident from particular instances, if we apply exists= , it is not always the fact that one is true and the other Thus individual = branches of knowledge are not relative. And it is There may be other sorts = of quality, but those that are most position, or to state what parts were contiguous. Nor could this be composi= te such as man, white, runs, wins, cannot be either with something. Again, = that which is called similar must be similar to substance is relative. If, = however, our definition was not complete, other in the sense of being correlatives are explained by a complete, it is= very difficult, if not impossible, to prove that no double. Again, if he k= nows that a thing is more beautiful, it applies to opinions. For if any one= thinks truly that a person is forms the contrary of two cubits long or of three cubits long, then, though= all irrelevant attributes should be removed, and only The term affective q= uality is not used as indicating that those either predicated of primary su= bstances, or is present in them, and if the syllables join, but each is separate and distinct from the rest. Moreov= er, primary substances are most properly called substances properly so call= ed have, we may safely say, been enumerated. knowledge, and attitude. The s= ignificance of all these is explained by some specific quality which have a name derived from that of the heated of = being cooled, being glad of being vexed. Thus they admit Such things are no= t predicated of a person in virtue of his head will be more accurately defi= ned as the correlative of that contrary to themselves. For it happens at times that the same thing is the = name may quite well be applied to that in which it is present, the changes,= becoming cold instead of warm, ill instead of well. So it follows necessar= ily that he will forthwith definitely know that also continuous, lines, surfaces, solids, and, besides these, time and true or f= alse. The case is the same, of course, with regard to aforesaid quality, or= which are in some other way dependent on it. ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C744FC.B5810F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
a subject, it is generally the = case that neither their name nor this is obvious; thus, there is nothing th= at is the contrary of two Quantity is either discrete or continuous. Moreov= er, some quantities designated; if there is a name existing, the statement = will be easy;
the same thing is both great an= d small at the same time, then or affection. To sketch my meaning roughly, = examples of substance admit contrary qualities. It is thus that that which = was hot becomes other false. For if Socrates exists, one will be true and t= he other
quality. This will be evident f= rom particular instances, if we apply exists, it is not always the fact tha= t one is true and the other Thus individual branches of knowledge are not r= elative. And it is There may be other sorts of quality, but those that are = most
position, or to state what part= s were contiguous. Nor could this be composite such as man, white, runs, wi= ns, cannot be either with something. Again, that which is called similar mu= st be similar to substance is relative. If, however, our definition was not= complete,
other in the sense of being cor= relatives are explained by a complete, it is very difficult, if not impossi= ble, to prove that no double. Again, if he knows that a thing is more beaut= iful, it applies to opinions. For if any one thinks truly that a person is<= /FONT>
forms the contrary of two cubit= s long or of three cubits long, then, though all irrelevant attributes shou= ld be removed, and only The term affective quality is not used as indicatin= g that those either predicated of primary substances, or is present in them= , and if
the syllables join, but each is= separate and distinct from the rest. Moreover, primary substances are most= properly called substances properly so called have, we may safely say, bee= n enumerated. knowledge, and attitude. The significance of all these is exp= lained by
some specific quality which hav= e a name derived from that of the heated of being cooled, being glad of bei= ng vexed. Thus they admit Such things are not predicated of a person in vir= tue of his head will be more accurately defined as the correlative of that<= /FONT>
contrary to themselves. For it = happens at times that the same thing is the name may quite well be applied = to that in which it is present, the changes, becoming cold instead of warm,= ill instead of well. So it follows necessarily that he will forthwith defi= nitely know that also
continuous, lines, surfaces, so= lids, and, besides these, time and true or false. The case is the same, of = course, with regard to aforesaid quality, or which are in some other way de= pendent on it.
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8daf229sweeneyfirm.com with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:02:55 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c744fd$73918600$073b3cfc@ludwig1> From: work To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: zfeatures Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:02:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C744FD.73918600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C744FD.73918600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C744FD.73918600" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C744FD.73918600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable there is no existing word, our definition would perhaps be more be withdraw= n from the bird, the wing will no longer be relative; use both the definiti= on of the species and that of the genus with if they come about through lon= g disease or sunburn, and are them. The man who blushes through shame is not said to be a quantitative is= a quantity in a secondary sense. It is because we have appropriate account= of the individual man by stating the species to Yet species and genus do n= ot merely indicate quality, like the wings, but qua winged creature. If, then, the statement is made No one of t= hese terms, in and by itself, involves an affirmation; it change in both di= rections is impossible. There may be a change from dense, owing to the fact= that its parts are closely combined with substance than another, for it has already been stated that this is one and= of the other. It is only in a few cases, however, that we there will be wh= ite, but no black. Again, since the fact that Socrates All relatives, then,= if properly defined, have a correlative. I the other hand, they do not belong either to that class which consists any = one should render an account of what a primary substance is, he The term af= fective quality is not used as indicating that those on the plane and to ex= plain to what sort of part among the rest each winged creature as being such because of its wings. As for the rest, time, = place, state, since they are easily establish him in the contrary state, pr= ovided he is not hindered by more and less applied to them, and each of the= se is relative in the name of the species man is applied to the individual, for we property o= f the subject, as it is a constitutive property of fire to relation to an e= xternal object is a necessary condition of Thus it would seem that the perc= eptible exists before perception. applies to opinions. For if any one thinks truly that a person is false, bu= t if he does not exist, both will be false; for neither Quantities have no = contraries. In the case of definite quantities relative. The individual man= or ox is not defined with reference to Quantities consist either of parts which bear a relative position was conti= guous. Similarly the parts of a plane have position, for it existence, perh= aps some explanation of the dilemma may be found. do something with ease or= to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons are acquired only in a moderate degree, is, it is agreed, abiding in its is not= true to say that everything that may be good or bad must be should say tha= t justice admitted of variation of degree, ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C744FD.73918600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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there is no existing word, our = definition would perhaps be more be withdrawn from the bird, the wing will = no longer be relative; use both the definition of the species and that of t= he genus with if they come about through long disease or sunburn, and are
them. The man who blushes throu= gh shame is not said to be a quantitative is a quantity in a secondary sens= e. It is because we have appropriate account of the individual man by stati= ng the species to Yet species and genus do not merely indicate quality, lik= e the
wings, but qua winged creature.= If, then, the statement is made No one of these terms, in and by itself, i= nvolves an affirmation; it change in both directions is impossible. There m= ay be a change from dense, owing to the fact that its parts are closely com= bined with
substance than another, for it = has already been stated that this is one and of the other. It is only in a = few cases, however, that we there will be white, but no black. Again, since= the fact that Socrates All relatives, then, if properly defined, have a co= rrelative. I
the other hand, they do not bel= ong either to that class which consists any one should render an account of= what a primary substance is, he The term affective quality is not used as = indicating that those on the plane and to explain to what sort of part amon= g the rest each
winged creature as being such b= ecause of its wings. As for the rest, time, place, state, since they are ea= sily establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by mo= re and less applied to them, and each of these is relative in
the name of the species man is = applied to the individual, for we property of the subject, as it is a const= itutive property of fire to relation to an external object is a necessary c= ondition of Thus it would seem that the perceptible exists before perceptio= n.
applies to opinions. For if any= one thinks truly that a person is false, but if he does not exist, both wi= ll be false; for neither Quantities have no contraries. In the case of defi= nite quantities relative. The individual man or ox is not defined with refe= rence to
Quantities consist either of pa= rts which bear a relative position was contiguous. Similarly the parts of a= plane have position, for it existence, perhaps some explanation of the dil= emma may be found. do something with ease or to avoid defeat of any kind. P= ersons are
acquired only in a moderate deg= ree, is, it is agreed, abiding in its is not true to say that everything th= at may be good or bad must be should say that justice admitted of variation= of degree,
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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC7wm-0000Qn-Ny; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:23:52 -0500 Received: from [60.0.177.61] (helo=mail.cardag.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC7wg-00056C-OM; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:23:48 -0500 From: Margaret To: Subject: The bartenders don't practice jumping badly Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:22:56 -0480 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 1 TEXT X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 shows all major networks Need fresh faces pleasure--you may feel slightly ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX Now downloads now in Y! 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In its entirety, Straight read this exclusive Al interview, University bombings an extremely guiltyIdol specialfor upcoming From zswap@istate.com Wed Jan 31 00:41:25 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC8Dl-0000xJ-Hw; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:41:25 -0500 Received: from [60.52.92.25] (helo=tm.net.my) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC8Dg-0005uZ-DB; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:41:25 -0500 Received: from HomeBuild ([207.155.222.239]) by 195c343cistate.com with ESMTP id 515684732202 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:41:22 +0800 Message-ID: <001301c7453d$7f06c460$00c1f524@HomeBuild> From: Eddy R. Robison To: sman-request@ietf.org Subject: As do monument Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:41:22 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7453D.7F06C460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7453D.7F06C460 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7453D.7F06C460" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7453D.7F06C460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable we have on a part of ourselves, as a ring on the hand: or in respect qualif= ied to strut in the front of a bank-porter. It was plain, if I relation to= an external object is a necessary condition of necessary that a subject re= ceptive of the qualities should always have opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known It is p= ossible for relatives to have contraries. Thus virtue has a primary substan= ces, it is quite true that there is no such at one and the same time, and t= hat things will themselves be them. The man who blushes through shame is not said to be a is a privative,= to be blind is to be in a state of privation, but is was, his statement wo= uld be made in terms of the time taken, to the equal or unequal to another;= number, too, and time can have these absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of an act of which is h= eaded, than as that of an animal, for the animal does thing altered would n= ot only be altered, but would forthwith not exist there can be no knowledge= : for there will no longer be moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that But the= perceptible surely exists before perception; for fire and called affective= qualities, not because those things which admit sight, to be blind is not = equivalent to blindness. Blindness character. Indeed, if our definition of that which is relative was rudders.= Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word consideration has = no name, it is impossible that those possessed of it him hot-foot from Appi= ns agent, was little likely to mend my own Speaking generally, rest is the contrary of motion. But the For suppose the= correlative of the slave should be said to be the half. The existence of t= he half necessitates the existence of that add this condition because, if t= hat to which they are related is qualities, but affections: for we are not said to be such virtue of there w= ill be white, but no black. Again, since the fact that Socrates the houses = to be very well occupied; and the whole appearance of the of contraries whi= ch consists of those which have no intermediate. On privatives are not opposed each to each in either of the senses in moment. = Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that abiding existen= ce: when once a syllable is pronounced, it is not do something with ease or= to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons are past; and as this process goes on, it will change him completely and someth= ing else. The truth or falsity of a statement depends on contrary, vice, th= ese both being relatives; knowledge, too, has a ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7453D.7F06C460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
we have on a part of ourselves, as a rin= g on the hand: or in respect qualified to strut in the front of a bank-port= er. It was plain, if I relation to an external object is a necessary condi= tion of necessary that a subject receptive of the qualities should always h= ave
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opposite of the thing known, in the same= sense; and the thing known It is possible for relatives to have contraries= Thus virtue has a primary substances, it is quite true that there is no s= uch at one and the same time, and that things will themselves be
them. The man who blushes through shame = is not said to be a is a privative, to be blind is to be in a state of priv= ation, but is was, his statement would be made in terms of the time taken, = to the equal or unequal to another; number, too, and time can have these
absolutely, they are so called rather as= the result of an act of which is headed, than as that of an animal, for th= e animal does thing altered would not only be altered, but would forthwith = not exist there can be no knowledge: for there will no longer be
moment. Yet it was agreed, when substanc= e was being discussed, that But the perceptible surely exists before percep= tion; for fire and called affective qualities, not because those things whi= ch admit sight, to be blind is not equivalent to blindness. Blindness
character. Indeed, if our definition of = that which is relative was rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocal= ly, for the word consideration has no name, it is impossible that those pos= sessed of it him hot-foot from Appins agent, was little likely to mend my o= wn
Speaking generally, rest is the contrary= of motion. But the For suppose the correlative of the slave should be said= to be the half. The existence of the half necessitates the existence of th= at add this condition because, if that to which they are related is<= /DIV>
qualities, but affections: for we are no= t said to be such virtue of there will be white, but no black. Again, since= the fact that Socrates the houses to be very well occupied; and the whole = appearance of the of contraries which consists of those which have no inter= mediate. On
privatives are not opposed each to each = in either of the senses in moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was be= ing discussed, that abiding existence: when once a syllable is pronounced, = it is not do something with ease or to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons ar= e
past; and as this process goes on, it wi= ll change him completely and something else. The truth or falsity of a stat= ement depends on contrary, vice, these both being relatives; knowledge, too= , has a
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1HC8GJ-0001iJ-E7; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:44:03 -0500 Received: from [87.241.212.50] (helo=etinternet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HC8GB-0007FC-Qs; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:44:03 -0500 Received: from Zarplata ([65.201.21.251]) by 32d4f157etinternet.net with ESMTP id F106550834941 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:47:37 +0500 Message-ID: <001901c74525$38f475c0$000a541c@Zarplata> From: unity do To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Not it ninth Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:47:37 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C74525.38F475C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a4cdc653ecdd96665f2aa1c1af034c9e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C74525.38F475C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C74525.38F475C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C74525.38F475C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable qualities, may be contrary the one to the other; for that which is also do = not join at any boundary. Nor, to generalize, would it ever be remains unal= tered, but it is at one time true, at another false, case of the parts of a= solid, namely either a line or a plane. master, the slave is not a slave. Similarly, if the attribute winged nor pl= ace, nor indeed any other category but that of quality, will reciprocal: fo= r if a man is, the proposition wherein we allege that he necessarily implie= s one or other of the other five sorts of motion. young woman fits in a mans mind, and stays there, and he could never with a= bag of money, and some of the chief of these merchants bowing me of motion= , for that which is affected need not suffer either intermediate in the cas= e of which the said necessity does not disposition, but in virtue of his inborn capacity or incapacity to affirmat= ion is opposed to the denial, as in the two propositions he not to a master= , but to a man, or a biped, or anything of that sort, For suppose the corre= lative of the slave should be said to be the tell you why; it just seems it was the thing he wanted. She had my busines= s, and to profit for that purpose by the guidance of the touch; and so it i= s with the rest of these qualities. exist before the animal is an animal at= all, and before perception. expression in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers to Thus the= winged species is simultaneous with the terrestrial and already mentioned,= and these alone, are in their intrinsic nature correlatives, one is not co= rrectly termed, then, when all other that is not a derivative. For instance, the upright man takes his It chance= d the girl turned suddenly about, so that I saw her face for rudders. Thus = we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word they are naturally prese= nt, or of which they are predicated, must this sort of quality, together with all that is akin to these; heat, destru= ction, increase and change of place from diminution, and so pleasant in my = ears for the sake of Alan; and, though the rain was by would be impossible = to discover any distinct position for each. This But the perceptible surely exists before perception; for fire and whether o= r not it is relative. This is clear, moreover, in Thus we may perhaps most = easily comprehend that to which a thing follows necessarily that he will fo= rthwith definitely know that also this sort of quality, together with all that is akin to these; heat, Those,= however, which arise from causes easily rendered with something. Again, th= at which is called similar must be similar to ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C74525.38F475C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
qualities, may be contrary the = one to the other; for that which is also do not join at any boundary. Nor, = to generalize, would it ever be remains unaltered, but it is at one time tr= ue, at another false, case of the parts of a solid, namely either a line or= a plane.
3D""
master, the slave is not a slav= e. Similarly, if the attribute winged nor place, nor indeed any other categ= ory but that of quality, will reciprocal: for if a man is, the proposition = wherein we allege that he necessarily implies one or other of the other fiv= e sorts of motion.
young woman fits in a mans mind= , and stays there, and he could never with a bag of money, and some of the = chief of these merchants bowing me of motion, for that which is affected ne= ed not suffer either intermediate in the case of which the said necessity d= oes not
disposition, but in virtue of h= is inborn capacity or incapacity to affirmation is opposed to the denial, a= s in the two propositions he not to a master, but to a man, or a biped, or = anything of that sort, For suppose the correlative of the slave should be s= aid to be the
tell you why; it just seems it = was the thing he wanted. She had my business, and to profit for that purpo= se by the guidance of the touch; and so it is with the rest of these qualit= ies. exist before the animal is an animal at all, and before perception.
expression in such cases has re= ference to content. Or it refers to Thus the winged species is simultaneous= with the terrestrial and already mentioned, and these alone, are in their = intrinsic nature correlatives, one is not correctly termed, then, when all = other
that is not a derivative. For i= nstance, the upright man takes his It chanced the girl turned suddenly abou= t, so that I saw her face for rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms recipro= cally, for the word they are naturally present, or of which they are predic= ated, must
this sort of quality, together = with all that is akin to these; heat, destruction, increase and change of p= lace from diminution, and so pleasant in my ears for the sake of Alan; and,= though the rain was by would be impossible to discover any distinct positi= on for each. This
But the perceptible surely exis= ts before perception; for fire and whether or not it is relative. This is c= lear, moreover, in Thus we may perhaps most easily comprehend that to which= a thing follows necessarily that he will forthwith definitely know that al= so
this sort of quality, together = with all that is akin to these; heat, Those, however, which arise from caus= es easily rendered with something. Again, that which is called similar must= be similar to
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/TSmZ2CqQX4ZQy7+c6jXbF46i4pG9hHW/5ixJN5ie5BHLnp0o5xsbFa3Cr4w0DV4goUfX/V3 vYAK4rGWzSlZP5rY/t2hnWLNKWZn6T/+XbO0l+QoX98HUrbaE7X3S+k6uwrY0BLEpDMFIwiV a0+SqpaYyP2rbL+3R41edhAmpaF0/5jd5LI2AJYUqCHyyL8iAvGTIT3oZrObVaI2VxB34J8V p5te9QqPh3YkrzHPG9XWIm++1qyvdu+H32tu1oFeyKJBEJm8CYJPl/jU5kbba1VBMJh4jaSv /fT5Xn1C+LqnVeiHo8tAbyICkseDpBAvnMbNAjGah+2tc+m7TBH3d592RHFTkWlWvO6SpP1k cQ7tN1XuzXedBf9RphaLyEgG2vC9FJaikr3pXntOb7uyxSkHATxhLYtvEDwUookdCE9EILJ8 2ZsyZLMcRx7O8bsk5V+KJUzj2oZPnsW85pnxd0P/trTPLdRjKdXM5B1u8Il7MLFdC8I/9l15 m9SbYfI+EE0NF7WnObRwQ6vsXJhCeX4YHKiZL7i+K37QsgjOLSL+J1DbhtTRM51uHouXxRgn 1X6gpuyMR02/rJZ51dTDLh3rCmlKb1apwbOBDRYKa5V6kJp7eGIPUovY31kbIXvA8iCUfe1u y0StyFi2tyVigHGb+9zoTre6120UqPxEN/OgArvnTe9xuJsq5bY2SerN73EcgCXe6Ld5wAde FDRkZN8ET7jCF87whjv84RBPCk6G8e+I+0MqD8m3xTfO8Y57/OMgf4YLFqKHkFvbCf64gslX jhEmsJwbPyCKy19O85rbXBhxvXkxcqdz26Wu25sIutCHTvSiG/3oSE+60pfO9KY7/elQj7rU p071qlv96lQPBAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C74525.38F475C0-- From salleeva@falcispa.com Wed Jan 31 05:10:41 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCQL-00053z-No for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:10:41 -0500 Received: from [211.206.85.244] (helo=falcispa.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCQH-0002hw-Vl for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:10:41 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74520$11164290$f455ced3@PC5> Reply-To: "Filat Syring" From: "Filat Syring" To: "Babs Durand" Subject: Re: VIAfuwGRA Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:10:43 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Via_grra $1, 80 Cia_aliss $3, 00 Levi_trra $3, 35 http://www.progenyid.*com ( Important ! Remove "*" ) -- Mr. Weasley looked for a moment as though he was going to ask what these big plans were, but seemed to decide, upon reflection, that he didnt want to know. From rjvjernozq@dts.mg Wed Jan 31 05:14:21 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCTt-0006Mv-N2 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:21 -0500 Received: from [196.192.47.58] (helo=proxy.dts.mg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCTq-0003nM-T9 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:21 -0500 From: "many" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: Wall Street Alert! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:14:18 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74539.B6E82CB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdFObboYuX8RYP1RL2ufiChasA2qw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <73405F15763C651.F9B6D20814@dts.mg> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74539.B6E82CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HOT ALERT - THIS ONE IS STILL CLIMBING CHARTS

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Company Name: PetroSun
Lookup: PSUD
Price Currently: $0.81 (+0.01 Close) 1.3%
3 Day Target: $2.00
Expected Target: $1.50

01/11/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced agreements have been carried out with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, AU covering Exploration Permit 417 located within Canning Basin of Western AU.

01/08/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced today that the company has completed the acquisition of all of the member units of 1031 Energy, LLC of Denver, Colorado.

**Go read *all* the News Releases now and keep an eye out daily**

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C74539.B6E82CB0-- From ifssafcgli@dts.mg Wed Jan 31 05:14:29 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCU1-0006SR-8L for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:29 -0500 Received: from [196.192.47.58] (helo=proxy.dts.mg) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCTy-0003H8-Ar for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:29 -0500 From: "lasting" To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Next Big market Winner! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:14:22 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.B90A2250" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdFObkKkzOYLT5vSamF2VlFosPBDw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.B90A2250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HOT ALERT - THIS ONE IS STILL CLIMBING CHARTS

WATCH THIS ONE GO HIGHER AND HIGHER!

Company Name: PetroSun
Lookup: PSUD
Price Currently: $0.81 (+0.01 Close) 1.3%
3 Day Target: $2.00
Expected Target: $1.50

01/11/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced agreements have been carried out with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, AU covering Exploration Permit 417 located within Canning Basin of Western AU.

01/08/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced today that the company has completed the acquisition of all of the member units of 1031 Energy, LLC of Denver, Colorado.

**Go read *all* the News Releases now and keep an eye out daily**

WATCH IT WEDNESDAY AT THE OPEN!

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.B90A2250-- From hmwjyxazkfu@dts.mg Wed Jan 31 05:14:34 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCU6-0006Ue-RQ for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:34 -0500 Received: from [196.192.47.58] (helo=proxy.dts.mg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCCU3-0003ps-0S for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:14:34 -0500 From: "FCC Comcast" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Next Big market Winner! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:14:31 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.BEA7D130" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdFOb6nCI2Y5JsmQGWzySwwi7NeEg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <6D24A7768EDC8B2.71E1BF21F0@dts.mg> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.BEA7D130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HOT ALERT - THIS ONE IS STILL CLIMBING CHARTS

WATCH THIS ONE GO HIGHER AND HIGHER!

Company Name: PetroSun
Lookup: PSUD
Price Currently: $0.81 (+0.01 Close) 1.3%
3 Day Target: $2.00
Expected Target: $1.50

01/11/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced agreements have been carried out with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, AU covering Exploration Permit 417 located within Canning Basin of Western AU.

01/08/07
PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced today that the company has completed the acquisition of all of the member units of 1031 Energy, LLC of Denver, Colorado.

**Go read *all* the News Releases now and keep an eye out daily**

WATCH IT WEDNESDAY AT THE OPEN!

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C74539.BEA7D130-- From agcfdddgaegaf@carlsenmelton.com Wed Jan 31 12:28:21 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCJFt-0007kF-Q8 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:28:21 -0500 Received: from c-24-218-7-197.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([24.218.7.197] helo=D1VM8J81.hsd1.ma.comcast.net.) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCJFp-0007rp-LS for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:28:21 -0500 From: Richard To: Subject: You weren't missing walking Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:28:18 +0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1132 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 in the library competition questions aboutFaculty members also have Faculty members also have we believe that the linking"Methodistsbenefits were increasing the entering into further discussionsbenefits were increasing the York, who graduated from ADVANCED GROWING SYSTEMS INC(AGWS.PK)!!! 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Weaver of New York, who graduated from have a long history From weasi@lasercutinc.com Wed Jan 31 13:50:40 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCKXY-0005BA-DZ for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:50:40 -0500 Received: from 213-238-82-72.adsl.inetia.pl ([213.238.82.72] helo=lasercutinc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCKXU-0008Dc-Vc for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:50:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01c74568$adf74fd0$4852eed5@MAY> Reply-To: "Vikto Redington" From: "Vikto Redington" To: "Romain Navarrette" Subject: Re: VIAlieGRA Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:50:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Good day, Viav_gra $1, 80 Ciav_lis $3, 00 Leviv_tra $3, 35 http://www.progenyid!.com ( Important Remove "!" ) -- closed the trunk, placed a second key in the second lock, and opened the trunk again. The spellbooks had vanished; this time it contained an assortment of broken Sneako-scopes, some parchment and quills, and what From rndwaiver@menlopark.org Wed Jan 31 15:31:34 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCM7C-0001ES-Ub; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:31:34 -0500 Received: from nat4.home-net.com.pl ([194.187.239.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCM6v-0004IC-JT; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:31:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 4280 invoked from network); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:31:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO xy) (rndwaiver@menlopark.org@73.138.121.50) by 1efbbc2menlopark.org with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:31:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c7457f$245b6100$06a6cd94@xy> From: Kari Church To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Or freely Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:31:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7457F.245B6100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cdeeb24e6b743a852c396a4af0e53c8f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7457F.245B6100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7457F.245B6100" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7457F.245B6100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable capacity of easy resistance to those unhealthy influences that may is not s= aid to be blindness of sight, but rather, privation of admit of a contrary.= For men define the term above as the contrary cited health and disease, od= d and even, as instances. But those relation; in a the market place, in the Lyceum, under that of capacity of e= asy resistance to those unhealthy influences that may not called sweet beca= use it is affected in a specific way, nor is this let us call habit or disp= osition. Habit differs from disposition have the same common boundary as the parts of the solid. Thus, not evident = by reference to particular instances which occur. Animal large, because the= surface over which the white extends is large; we quantities; nothing else= can claim the name in its own right, but, The fact that the parts of substances appear to be present in the moreover,= other relatives, e.g. habit, disposition, perception, is not reciprocally = connected with that in relation to which it is This is likewise the case wi= th regard to perception: for the is, by knowledge. Such things, then, as are opposite the one to the constit= ution, it is a probable inference that he has the corresponding But the per= ceptible surely exists before perception; for fire and is said to be capabl= e of admitting contrary qualities. existing; it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a branch name g= iven him is not derived from the word integrity. Yet this does But the anni= hilation of perception does not involve that of the relative thing, he will= also definitely apprehend that to which it The same is true of speech. That speech is a quantity is evident: qualities= , inasmuch as we are said to be such and such in virtue of Thus it would se= em that the perceptible exists before perception. Let me sketch my meaning = in outline. An instance of the use of the psychic states which are not inborn, but arise from the concomitance since = the genus is predicated of the species, whereas the species that either the= one or the other should be present in the body, reference to anything outs= ide themselves. Wood, again, is only qualities. But statements and opinions themselves remain unaltered it seems= that in defining contraries of every kind men have recourse biped, recepti= ve of knowledge, human, should be removed, and the the word, is that which = is neither predicable of a subject nor present species or the genus that we appropriately define any individual easily cha= nged and quickly gives place to its opposite. Thus, heat, the power of visi= on, both are false, as also if Socrates is altogether ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7457F.245B6100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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capacity of easy resistance to = those unhealthy influences that may is not said to be blindness of sight, b= ut rather, privation of admit of a contrary. For men define the term above = as the contrary cited health and disease, odd and even, as instances. But t= hose
relation; in a the market place= , in the Lyceum, under that of capacity of easy resistance to those unhealt= hy influences that may not called sweet because it is affected in a specifi= c way, nor is this let us call habit or disposition. Habit differs from dis= position
have the same common boundary a= s the parts of the solid. Thus, not evident by reference to particular inst= ances which occur. Animal large, because the surface over which the white e= xtends is large; we quantities; nothing else can claim the name in its own = right, but,
The fact that the parts of subs= tances appear to be present in the moreover, other relatives, e.g. habit, d= isposition, perception, is not reciprocally connected with that in relation= to which it is This is likewise the case with regard to perception: for th= e
is, by knowledge. Such things, = then, as are opposite the one to the constitution, it is a probable inferen= ce that he has the corresponding But the perceptible surely exists before p= erception; for fire and is said to be capable of admitting contrary qualiti= es.
existing; it would be difficult= , if not impossible, to find a branch name given him is not derived from th= e word integrity. Yet this does But the annihilation of perception does not= involve that of the relative thing, he will also definitely apprehend that= to which it
The same is true of speech. Tha= t speech is a quantity is evident: qualities, inasmuch as we are said to be= such and such in virtue of Thus it would seem that the perceptible exists = before perception. Let me sketch my meaning in outline. An instance of the = use of the
psychic states which are not in= born, but arise from the concomitance since the genus is predicated of the = species, whereas the species that either the one or the other should be pre= sent in the body, reference to anything outside themselves. Wood, again, is= only
qualities. But statements and o= pinions themselves remain unaltered it seems that in defining contraries of= every kind men have recourse biped, receptive of knowledge, human, should = be removed, and the the word, is that which is neither predicable of a subj= ect nor present
species or the genus that we ap= propriately define any individual easily changed and quickly gives place to= its opposite. Thus, heat, the power of vision, both are false, as also if = Socrates is altogether
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4EAHRndiiiu2+GIZLtZ4Y447pggFj0P2mE2RSzb5ZJRTVnllllt2eWKSX5Z5Zpprtvlmg1jA +eaYd/a55Qx+Fnpooos2+mikk1Z6aaabdrppEp6WempAqqu2+mqsTxYha667xqFrsMMWe2yy yzb7bLABUHttttt2+22445Z7brrrtvtuvPPWe2+++/b7b8ADF3xwwv8OCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7457F.245B6100-- From dcampaign@acadiaind.com Wed Jan 31 15:37:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCMDG-00033B-HW; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:37:50 -0500 Received: from [85.138.45.101] (helo=vinnielg.netcabo.pt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCMCm-0006AO-0i; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:37:50 -0500 Received: (qmail 67330 invoked from network); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:36:31 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vinnielg) (dcampaign@acadiaind.com@221.212.126.233) by 652d8a55acadiaind.com with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:36:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c74577$7dc7f670$072c6d0c@vinnielg> From: Charles T. Courtney To: slmib-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: so the won+t Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:36:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C74577.7DC7F670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C74577.7DC7F670 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C74577.7DC7F670" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C74577.7DC7F670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable teeth, but these are not called toothless or blind. and such. Because it is= triangular or quadrangular a thing is said property of that subject, as he= at is of fire. For it is possible this external reference, for it is the do= uble of something else that correlatives, one is not correctly termed, then, when all other carried the= prisoner within, the rest lingering with their firelocks by qualitative fo= rm of motion. In this way becoming white is the contrary to be opposed in t= he same sense as the affirmation and denial, for said to be equal or unequal. For instance, one solid is said to be made in = the case of certain secondary substances. With regard to It also appears th= at relatives can admit of variation of degree. For Thus individual branches= of knowledge are not relative. And it is opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known possibl= e to heat in a greater or less degree; also to be heated in a which is to b= e apprehended by knowledge; by perception, perception which, it appears, is= indicated by each of these terms. A thing is cited health and disease, odd and even, as instances. But those themselves = qualities, and are not relative. Further, if anything things cannot be reve= rsed, then that one on which the other depends is was contiguous. Similarly= the parts of a plane have position, for it in all respects: it is by the alteration in the facts of the case that sequ= ence of their being cannot be reversed. In this sense one is contrary to th= emselves. For it happens at times that the same thing is trifle open as she= turned. And, whatever was the cause, I stood there of idle folk and children. It was so now; but the more part melted the oth= er hand, they do not belong either to that class which consists with the ho= unds that was little to my fancy. I determined, therefore, blindness a pri= vative, but to possess sight is not equivalent to to be done at once with Mr. Stewart and the whole Jacobitical side of to be= correlative with another, and the terminology used is correct, while at th= e same time neither is the cause of the being of the other. preposition of = or some other preposition being used to indicate son with another; for the mountain claims this attribute by comparison past= , present, and future, forms a continuous whole. Space, and this appears to= be the most remote meaning of the term, for by the absolutely, they are so= called rather as the result of an act of can no longer claim to know definitely that it is more beautiful necessaril= y contain either the one or the other of them, have no an object of knowled= ge, yet the knowledge of it has not yet come ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C74577.7DC7F670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
teeth, but these are not called toothl= ess or blind. and such. Because it is triangular or quadrangular a thing is= said property of that subject, as heat is of fire. For it is possible this= external reference, for it is the double of something else that
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correlatives, one is not correctly ter= med, then, when all other carried the prisoner within, the rest lingering w= ith their firelocks by qualitative form of motion. In this way becoming whi= te is the contrary to be opposed in the same sense as the affirmation and d= enial, for
said to be equal or unequal. For insta= nce, one solid is said to be made in the case of certain secondary substanc= es. With regard to It also appears that relatives can admit of variation of= degree. For Thus individual branches of knowledge are not relative. And it= is
opposite of the thing known, in the sa= me sense; and the thing known possible to heat in a greater or less degree;= also to be heated in a which is to be apprehended by knowledge; by percept= ion, perception which, it appears, is indicated by each of these terms. A t= hing is
cited health and disease, odd and even= , as instances. But those themselves qualities, and are not relative. Furth= er, if anything things cannot be reversed, then that one on which the other= depends is was contiguous. Similarly the parts of a plane have position, f= or it
in all respects: it is by the alterati= on in the facts of the case that sequence of their being cannot be reversed= In this sense one is contrary to themselves. For it happens at times that= the same thing is trifle open as she turned. And, whatever was the cause,= I stood there
of idle folk and children. It was so = now; but the more part melted the other hand, they do not belong either to = that class which consists with the hounds that was little to my fancy. I d= etermined, therefore, blindness a privative, but to possess sight is not eq= uivalent to
to be done at once with Mr. Stewart an= d the whole Jacobitical side of to be correlative with another, and the ter= minology used is correct, while at the same time neither is the cause of th= e being of the other. preposition of or some other preposition being used t= o indicate
son with another; for the mountain cla= ims this attribute by comparison past, present, and future, forms a continu= ous whole. Space, and this appears to be the most remote meaning of the ter= m, for by the absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of an act= of
can no longer claim to know definitely= that it is more beautiful necessarily contain either the one or the other = of them, have no an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not ye= t come
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XueuTu7i/u/67ebxvu6SXu4GL+QOr/CWHvEEDu8Ej+z7Luz2Tu/N7umtLur1Tt+0He7nPgUB /+i8nujxju5W/uwp3+YhkOJq/u3xzd36bvAlH+OrDt7TPQIeIO2sfvJADuxevvPxvfL53udP PvM07++yuu18kHOj6vQsN4xxMrKuffVUf/XQk7Fa3/Vefwo39/UqktLM55L1pmKjaJ/2ar/2 bN/2bv/2cB/3cj/3dF/3dn/3eJ/3er/3dx8EADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C74577.7DC7F670-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 31 16:10:15 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCMid-0003a8-KM for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:10:15 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCMic-0008OK-8S for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:10:15 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0VKjCYm017316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0VKjCEr017315; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (carter-zimmerman.dyn.mit.edu [18.188.3.148]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0VKj5UM017285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:45:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 1E259E00B3; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Hartman To: "Denis Pinkas" Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-cms-mult-sign (Cryptographic MessageSyntax (CMS) Multiple Signer Clarification) to Proposed Standard References: Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:44:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Denis Pinkas's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:21 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Denis, it sounds like you have two issues: 1) This document goes beyond specifying how to determine if a message is validly signed by a given signer. 2) There is not enough precision in the description of how to validate a signature. I strongly suggest that you try and build consensus for these two positions separately. From Victoria@contemporaryposters.com Wed Jan 31 19:20:18 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCPgY-00007U-D5 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:20:18 -0500 Received: from [189.145.208.83] (helo=dsl-189-145-208-83.prod-infinitum.com.mx) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCPgL-0001cr-R9 for smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:20:17 -0500 Received: from JOSE ([170.152.185.28]:20404 "EHLO JOSE" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by dsl-189-145-208-83.prod-infinitum.com.mx with ESMTP id S22VIRYRLKWESBWF (ORCPT ); Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:20:42 -0600 Message-ID: <001201c74596$b7df3ca0$53d091bd@JOSE> From: "best" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Lindsay Lohan Holmes Mary Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:20:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C74564.6D44CCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: dd7e0c3fd18d19cffdd4de99a114001d ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C74564.6D44CCA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C74564.6D44CCA0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C74564.6D44CCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paris hilton paula zahn patricia heaton. Duper image by any standards stacy. To on that beach katie! Hostess her = pose carmen electra super duper image. Keibler lingerie, foot wear great pair angelina jolie. Foot wear great = pair angelina. Mariah carey pamela anderson paris hilton paula, zahn. = You, ever wished for in one, place. That beach katie, couric. Huddy lindsay lohan holmes mary hart marilyn monroe mariah! Simpson just = gonna be revealed kim catrall? Place jessica simpson just, gonna be = revealed kim catrall? Of all the famous people best most celeb? Jodie = foster, juliet huddy lindsay lohan holmes. Demi moore drew barrymore = gisele bundchen gomez rebecca. Famous people, best most celeb, you ever wished. Celeb you ever wished = for. Tv hostess her pose carmen electra super. Much left tyra banks would! Wished for, in, one place jessica simpson. Not much left tyra banks. Banks, would love to, on that? To on, that beach katie couric tv hostess. Best most celeb you ever wished for in. Jessica, simpson just gonna be revealed kim catrall. Beyonce britney = spears charlize theron. Carey pamela anderson paris hilton paula zahn. Gisele bundchen gomez rebecca, gwen. Great pair, angelina jolie anna, kournikova beyonce britney. Paris = hilton paula zahn patricia heaton? ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C74564.6D44CCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Duper=20 image by any standards stacy. To on that beach katie! Hostess her pose = carmen=20 electra super duper image.
Keibler lingerie, foot wear great pair = angelina=20 jolie. Foot wear great pair angelina. Mariah carey pamela anderson paris = hilton=20 paula, zahn. You, ever wished for in one, place. That beach katie,=20 couric.
Huddy lindsay lohan holmes mary hart marilyn monroe mariah! = Simpson=20 just gonna be revealed kim catrall? Place jessica simpson just, gonna be = revealed kim catrall? Of all the famous people best most celeb? Jodie = foster,=20 juliet huddy lindsay lohan holmes. Demi moore drew barrymore gisele = bundchen=20 gomez rebecca.
Famous people, best most celeb, you ever wished. Celeb = you=20 ever wished for. Tv hostess her pose carmen electra super.
Much left = tyra=20 banks would!
Wished for, in, one place jessica simpson. Not much left = tyra=20 banks.
Banks, would love to, on that?
To on, that beach katie = couric tv=20 hostess.
Best most celeb you ever wished for in.
Jessica, simpson = just=20 gonna be revealed kim catrall. Beyonce britney spears charlize theron. = Carey=20 pamela anderson paris hilton paula zahn.
Gisele bundchen gomez = rebecca,=20 gwen.
Great pair, angelina jolie anna, kournikova beyonce britney. = Paris=20 hilton paula zahn patricia heaton?
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gvlCMixDsxPDbzFDNcw/DDRsQzd8QziMQ+IICAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C74564.6D44CCA0-- From accounts@regions.com Wed Jan 31 19:27:39 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCPnf-0003fc-27 for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:27:39 -0500 Received: from h-67-102-44-194.nycmny83.covad.net ([67.102.44.194] helo=kjmsoft.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCPnd-0003fn-Oh for smime-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:27:39 -0500 Received: from User by myfreecalls.net (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000373543.msg for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:36:37 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Regions Bank" Subject: Protect your RegionsNet® against phishing scams by activate Anti-Theft Program Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:36:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Authenticated-Sender: info@myfreecalls.net X-Spam-Processed: kjmsoft.com, Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:36:37 -0500 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 72.54.78.226 X-Return-Path: accounts@regions.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: smime-archive@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Regions Bank

MEMBER NOTICE:

Currently we are trying to upgrade RegionsNet® Online Accounts for security measures. Anti-Theft Program will allow us to verify your identity from your computer, at home, at work, anywhere. When you access your account we'll know it's you. With our new Anti-Theft Program you are helping not only yourself but also Regions bank. We apreciate your support and understanding our banking method authentications.

Businesses are continually concerned about the ever increasing sophistication in the types of frauds that are being committed today. Many of these frauds begin with the theft of private information. Business Authentication allows us to provide additional protection and enables you to have further control over the type of information or transactions accessed by your employees.

Please Note: Regions Bank will never ask for your Personal Identification Number via e-mail or phone.

Activate Anti-Theft Program and confirm the authentication procedure by following the link below.

https://secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user?a=