Support as co-author

Cheers,

Jeff

From:<= /b> pim <pim-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michael McBride
= Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 11:25 AM
To: pim@ietf.org
= Subject: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework

Hello good people,=

Today begins a two week = call for adoption of draft-allan-pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00 which wa= s presented in Montreal. There was a good discussion in the meeting and now = it=E2=80=99s time to gauge interest in adoption on the list. Please respond and le= t us know what you think about adopting this draft.

&n= bsp;

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-allan-= pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00.txt

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>thanks,
mike
_= ______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim

--B_3616511209_1851303661-- From nobody Wed Aug 8 13:14:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04C4130E7C for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:14:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tToKS70zDmpx for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD748130E28 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5A658C57F; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 22:14:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 47BB94402CB; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 22:14:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 22:14:45 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael McBride Cc: "pim@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180808201445.ewepwz27obaqvyyp@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:14:53 -0000 I do find this area of work very interesting, but I would prefer if the WG would not adopt this document yet. I would be happy to help/contribute (time permitting) with work in this area, but primarily when we can direct this work to: -> allow to support different forwarding planes -> Allow to support different signaling mechanisms -> concentrate on good specs for the centralized calculation/algos (even if that is maybe untypical IETF). Here are some issues i have with the current doc version: a) Target status I do not think a framework could/should be a standards track document. I think usually they are informative. b) Text quality - The document does not IMHO yet well enough explain the framework. It would help a lot to put some pictures into the document with topologies like what was presented at IETF102, and another with components and layers of the framework, and highlight the interactions better. - For example, the benefits and distinctions from existing solutions are not well summarized/explained, e.g: - minimizing number of nodes on a tree because - nodes do not support the scheme (not sure if this is considered - nodes not needed to do replication - calculating other than shortest path trees. Eg: there is no clear definition what a minimum cost tree is in this doc. It doesn't seem to be minimum spanning tree because that ha its root not necessarily in a PE. And it must be different from shortest path tree ? And its not steiner tree... ? c) Framework scope - In general, i would try to separate out the design of this framework from a particular choosen forwarding plane. To me, all the described mechanisms are quite independent of SR-MPLS, equally applicable to SRv6, classical MPLS, or equally IP tunneling & replication. I would really hate to have IETF invest into all the calculation schemes defined and then have that work tied up to just one forwarding plane plus maybe its son (SRv6). d) Centralized vs. distributed - The document tries to imply through the term "computing agent" that it can equally be performed centralized or cdecentralized/ distributed, but is quite vague about the details. - We have a bit the standardization issue in the IETF that IETF has not looked strongly into the algos when they are centralized because that does not require interoperability in consistent decision making. On the other hand, we also have some good but frustrating experience with distributed new path calculations like MRT. - In general, i will not believe right now whether or to what degree the results of a centralized path calculation approach using the ideas presented will achieve the same results as the distributed approach. If i am not mistaken, the example of MRT for example shows that in that particular case, the centralized result is better. - Personally, would prefer if a framework would first concentrate on being very specific to the centralized algorithms proposed to be used. Only when those are known can you IMHO well vet the option of a distributed version. Thats how it was done AFAIK on MRT (centralized algorithms known for decades?). Persistent loops or the like (disconnected trees ?). The document hints at some possible issues. - The frustrating experience from the MRT experience is of course also that vendors and industry do not seem to be willing or capable at this time to invest into intelligent distributed calculations. I blame the really bad and inagile software infrastructure in typical network equipment. Hence also the reccommendation to focus on the centralized specification approach first. e) Justification/comparisons -"This approach is proposed as a solution for networks for which an implementation of an alternative data plane, such as BIER, offers technical or economic challenges." There needs to be more justification text to support the necessity to invest into a framework. I would also like to see comparisons re. RSVP-TE, e.g.: what challenges would exist with that (the only one coming to mind is automatic transit over non-RSVP-TE P2MP nodes, but it would probably be easier to add that feature instead of reinventing a new scheme). - The IETF102 slides say that the solution utilizes SR-MPLS data plane in ways mLDP can not... didn't see representation/explanation of this claim in doc. f) Best WG ? - As outlined above, i think the mayority of the core framework work should be on the way how to calculate these (if i may call them that way) overlay trees, plus a bit the signaling schemes. I really doubt that PIM is the best WG to do this work. When writing up a framework for BIER-TE, Alia (back then AD) asked me to go to TEAS, claiming that TEAS should be responsible for all TE archticture/framework work. At least i think they could consult on what interfaces to design. The actual tree caluclation pieces... good question. RTWG would give it definitely more exposure and review than PIM, and especially when we'd take out the tie to a specific forwarding plane, that would also be a good logical place. Sorry for sounding like a Reichsbedenkentraeger (Royal Concern Officer), but better to bring up these issues now than in IESG review. Cheers Toerless On Mon, Aug 06, 2018 at 06:24:51PM +0000, Michael McBride wrote: > Hello good people, > > Today begins a two week call for adoption of draft-allan-pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00 which was presented in Montreal. There was a good discussion in the meeting and now it's time to gauge interest in adoption on the list. Please respond and let us know what you think about adopting this draft.. > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-allan-pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00.txt > > thanks, > mike > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Thu Aug 9 06:38:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42CE130E14 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 06:38:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G8jOSCjw4xQq for ; 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CY4PR0501MB3860; 6:Fa0e64b9SSqfRFnVrqmqX0stWdpW9gHxHSeCATkIslV8U6q8GdZMHWwf4JgRVVUnET7Qo1JzmxGQqj/f/VHFNfvAg81wHrlQ8A3jj2qKhKB4SabK5KRKYZGgs+8kSnLqU6lUGTpo+ljrAazltDbrS/JWE+3Z7g7U4VRVVKVWMUg8STSQfa2V+H84KR2d5URlWCpFPK6uVEJ7mc4wr9C6QWm9mVG58tYG7i/4sRNX8gqSTqOojZqQqnfZ9Ys7knoWoDpzBMemoRKEynpo2dROKYgqCbkIUpGo63QvRT9wK5tBwXQdCowwYNBEcNL1InFbQa+eMsxnKFqQybRXKFmLcc/V0ACi3xnF1S0+rLy55D0qsmUM5Q1ZT/SrSsDrLQVwbNJRuNhzc/7oVRyzhMuePfaAbjybJCIwdVpkpQ6TSQnSJYObPQbthqDokLXQ5UgPk8aupXHjFK/bDkCrR2BqWg==; 5:UnciUluo/0+iR1LxMEZCZeR8tAdhWAGyoDlt3GDia9fUyrKatKJ6YP2BEx0IGTbVoHUAh1yLe8IeP/gOJ6hh7GtW3DkoKJ9ik4BfnltSHhuDJC70gMHHa1JX3RLImFz8VlcxCiHPKo3yAZqGeUY0Ppr2wvnLGzGzJ10w5+yZ/EQ=; 7:R10/WoHE6LaWCiPpZN2zsqspab7tpCl3G0pYI0t7cy+fFBSAHDGAbISlYRQkh4TcboQHzGzw/SdwiLrcKTmo3ihY3G8OXNHpF6wQ3wzAQD+Y+a+bp2hYYGgpnAzR/KliEcPoEf0FtbMFQMKhYTsGiZKe8+kdV+o6ungSUUEm3I91fsvb2ab4p4OBs8uXcEVAkQVEWuCooWICGfRk3QnQn248W1cMgacFWeeZauWuEZaY1t1XPDneUJlt2r25tJEj SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2018 13:38:34.6765 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 34b12893-4260-4dc8-a8cc-08d5fdfd67e5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR0501MB3860 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-09_05:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808090141 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 13:38:47 -0000 I am opposed to the adoption of this draft. The document is not very clear, and it is not always possible to tell what is actually being proposed.� The parts I think I understand have numerous problems which do not appear to have been properly considered. The document appears to specify a way of setting up P2MP LSPs (let's call them "trees") using IGP as the control plane. Every tree is associated with an IPv4 or IPv6 group address.� Through some unspecified magic, each node determines whether it has "transmit interest" or "receive interest" for a given group address.� This interest is advertised via the IGP. It is not clear whether these group addresses have anything to do with the group addresses that appear in IP multicast packets.� If they don't, it is not clear why a tree has to be associated with an IPv4/IPv6 address at all.� If they do, it is not clear how multiple user flows can be aggregated on a single tree. The draft seems to explicitly prohibit a tree from having parallel links between a given pair of nodes; this means that ECMP load balancing is not possible, which suggests that a tree is to carry only one flow. (I'm not sure why this prohibition is made, but it does seem to be there in rule 2 of section 5.2.2.)� On the other hand, there are a few sentences suggesting that these trees can be used to instantiate MVPN/EVPN PMSIs, which suggests that the trees aggregate flows and thus could benefit from ECMP. The idea of using IGP to advertise interest in sending or receiving particular multicast flows is not new.� It recurs every few years, and generally disappears when people start to examine the evident scaling problems.� The number of groups, transmitters, and receivers is not bounded, and their rate of change is not bounded.� The last thing one wants to do is create an unbounded amount of IGP overhead.� Surprisingly, the impact on IGP scaling is not mentioned at all in the draft.� (Imagine if one had to kick the IGP every time MVPN/EVPN initiates a new S-PMSI!) Each pair seems to be assigned a domain-wide unique label, or SID.� I think the intention is that the transmitter gets configured with this SID, and then advertises it in the IGP messages.� Assigning these domain-wide unique identifiers to trees that may appear and disappear with some frequency seems like an interesting problem.� However, the authors seem to regard this problem as out of scope for the document; that's a bit strange for a document that purports to be describing a framework. Whether a given node has transmit and/or receive interest for a given group address is, according to the document, determined by management configuration.� There is no consideration of having the edge nodes support PIM/IGMP/MLD/mLDP, etc.� There is some mention of MVPN/EVPN, but only a mention, not an actual proposal.� That also seems strange for a framework document.� Surely a framework document should clearly delineate the boundary between overlay and underlay, and address the interactions between them. Once the IGP distributes information about who has transmit and/or receive interest in each group address, a computation is performed to figure out the best tree for a particular pair.� Some rules are sketched out for figuring this out, but the rules are not clear or precise enough to result in interoperable implementations. Once the tree is determined, per-tree state needs to be established at each node that is either a transmitter, a receiver, or a replication point.� If a node doesn't fall into one of these categories for a particular tree, that node will not need the per-tree state.� If a particular replication point on a tree is not directly attached to the next replication point downstream, unicast tunneling is used to get the packets from one replication point to the next. Much is made of the fact that per-tree data plane state exists only at nodes that are transmitters, replication points, or receivers for the tree.� This is presented as significant reduction in data plane state when compared to, say, PIM or mLDP.� Of course, whether there is any signficant reduction in state depends on the size and shape of the trees.� No analysis is given to show that the state reduction is significant, just a lot of handwaving. On the other hand, there is an enormous increase in control plane state resulting from the fact that every single node in the network is aware of every tree and all its members.� Existing multicast protocols do not require a node to know about a tree unless the tree passes through it, and do not require all nodes along a tree to know about all the leaf nodes of the tree.� The large increase in the amount of control plane state is not considered at all, for some reason. To send a data packet along a particular tree, the SID for that tree is pushed onto the packet's label stack.� Each node that receives a packet and sees a particular SID at the top of the label stack will replicate the packet and send (or tunnel) each copy to the next replication point, where the same SID will be seen.� Since unicast tunneling is generally used to get a packet from one replication point to the next, packets traveling along a particular tree may arrive over any interface.� This makes it impossible to do a data plane RPF check (such as PIM would do).� Since the tree has a domain-wide unique SID, you can't tell from the label who the previous node was, so you can't reject packets from the "wrong previous node" (such as mLDP would do).� This may lead to potentially disastrous multicast loops during periods when a tree is being modified, especially if node A was previously upstream of node B, but the change puts it downstream of node B.� (Modifications can be caused by topology changes or simply by a change in the set of receivers.)� These issues do not appear to have been considered. I do not see how this document can be considered for WG adoption. Given the set of signficant issues that have not received proper consideration, it is not possible to say that this document is a good basis for future work. From nobody Thu Aug 9 12:38:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D96130ECB for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 12:38:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=dxAK8dV/; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=hpd97V2z Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rmDb7jkbJbb3 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 12:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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ZiBzaWduZmljYW50IGlzc3VlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgbm90IHJlY2VpdmVkIHByb3BlciBjb25zaWRl cmF0aW9uLCBpdCBpcyBub3QgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBh IGdvb2QgYmFzaXMgZm9yIGZ1dHVyZSB3b3JrLg0KREE+IFBlcnNvbmFsbHkgSeKAmW0gbm90IHNl ZWluZyBhbnkgc2hvdyBzdG9wcGVycyBpbiB5b3VyIGxpc3Qgb2YgY29uY2VybnMuIEJ1dCB0aGF0 IGlzIG15IG9waW5pb24uDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGZlZWRiYWNrDQpEYXZlDQoNCg0KDQpf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KcGltIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdA0KcGltQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL3BpbQ0K From nobody Thu Aug 9 15:56:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89CE130E0C for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qmyWyX1rDdfA for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5769130DC7 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1364; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1533855387; x=1535064987; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; 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aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w79MuOnd014646 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Aug 2018 22:56:25 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: IJsbrand Wijnands In-Reply-To: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CC89175@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 00:56:24 +0200 Cc: "pim@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3D4288A8-AD9D-45DB-81B0-2ED70125BE40@cisco.com> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CC89175@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> To: Michael McBride X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.202.84, ams-iwijnand-8813.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 22:56:30 -0000 Hi, I'm apposed to the adoption of this draft. I share the concerns that Eric and Toerless have expressed. I also think a more high level discussion is needed to determine whether = we need an other state-full protocol to build multicast trees. This = draft proposes to create multicast state by using the IGP. Are the = benefits of that so significant, compared to existing protocols, to = justify building it? There will still be state, which will lead to = convergence issues and complexity in operating it. Claiming that this = idea follows the SR architecture because state is carried in the IGP is = not a convincing argument. Thx, Ice. > On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:24, Michael McBride = wrote: >=20 > Hello good people, > =20 > Today begins a two week call for adoption of = draft-allan-pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00 which was presented in = Montreal. There was a good discussion in the meeting and now it=E2=80=99s = time to gauge interest in adoption on the list. Please respond and let = us know what you think about adopting this draft. > =20 > = https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-allan-pim-sr-mpls-multicast-framework-00.t= xt > =20 > thanks, > mike > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Thu Aug 9 16:34:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C10F130EF7 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.71 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.71 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eOCYwxma0yB3 for ; 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Thu, 09 Aug 2018 16:34:05 -0700 Received: from BN7PR05MB4354.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.133.223.33) by BN7PR05MB4561.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.248.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1038.17; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 23:34:03 +0000 Received: from BN7PR05MB4354.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7dd5:8313:e414:4e74]) by BN7PR05MB4354.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7dd5:8313:e414:4e74%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1038.019; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 23:34:02 +0000 From: John E Drake To: David Allan I , Eric Rosen , Michael McBride , "pim@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework Thread-Index: AdQtssFIzPvft4cGQsCivyxneIMT5QCM4DkAAAyRwgAACBOdIA== Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 23:34:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CC89175@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.0.400.15 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 182a470e-033d-41c5-3ef2-08d5fe50971f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Aug 2018 23:34:02.7538 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4561 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-09_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808090233 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 23:34:17 -0000 RGF2ZSwNCg0KU25pcHBlZCwgY29tbWVudCBpbmxpbmUNCg0KWW91cnMgSXJyZXNwZWN0aXZlbHks DQoNCkpvaG4NCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBwaW0gPHBp bS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgRGF2aWQgQWxsYW4gSQ0KPiBTZW50OiBU aHVyc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDksIDIwMTggMzozOCBQTQ0KPiBUbzogRXJpYyBSb3NlbiA8ZXJvc2Vu QGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgTWljaGFlbCBNY0JyaWRlDQo+IDxNaWNoYWVsLk1jQnJpZGVAaHVhd2Vp LmNvbT47IHBpbUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW3BpbV0gQ2FsbCBmb3IgYWRvcHRp b24gb2Ygc3ItbXBscy1tdWx0aWNhc3QtZnJhbWV3b3JrDQo+IA0KPiBIaSBFcmljOg0KPiANCj4g UmVwbGllcyBpbiBsaW5lLCBwcmVmYWNlZCB3aXRoIERBPg0KPiANCj4gSSBkbyBub3Qgc2VlIGhv dyB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGNhbiBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbi4gR2l2ZW4N Cj4gdGhlIHNldCBvZiBzaWduZmljYW50IGlzc3VlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgbm90IHJlY2VpdmVkIHBy b3BlciBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9uLCBpdCBpcw0KPiBub3QgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgdGhp cyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBhIGdvb2QgYmFzaXMgZm9yIGZ1dHVyZSB3b3JrLg0KPiBEQT4gUGVyc29u YWxseSBJ4oCZbSBub3Qgc2VlaW5nIGFueSBzaG93IHN0b3BwZXJzIGluIHlvdXIgbGlzdCBvZiBj b25jZXJucy4gQnV0DQo+IHRoYXQgaXMgbXkgb3Bpbmlvbi4NCg0KDQpbSkRdICBJIHRoaW5rIGEg d2lsbGluZyBzdXNwZW5zaW9uIG9mIGRpc2JlbGllZiBpcyByZXF1aXJlZCB0byBhY2NlcHQgdGhl IHByZW1pc2UgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzIGEgZ29vZCBpZGVhLg0KIA0KDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFu a3MgZm9yIHRoZSBmZWVkYmFjaw0KPiBEYXZlDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IHBpbSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4g cGltQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5wcm9vZnBvaW50LmNvbS92Mi91cmw/ dT1odHRwcy0NCj4gM0FfX3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZ19tYWlsbWFuX2xpc3RpbmZvX3BpbSZkPUR3SUdh USZjPUhBa1l1aDYzcnN1aHI2U2MNCj4gYmZoMFVqQlhlTUstbmRiM3ZvRFRYY1d6b0NJJnI9Q1JC MnRKaVFlUGswY1QtaDVMR2hFV0gtDQo+IHNfeFhYdXAzSHp2QlNNUmo1VkUmbT1GbUFONXRWSjRl Y0NlU0tzMHFSQlF4cTY4VXJDM3lURGhtMXFMTA0KPiBRNThkNCZzPUxWX0NEM3JBbHpmRU1KdzY2 VHlKQjhvR0pqSDJTWFRUYTRNQ0RNdklFbFUmZT0NCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gcGltIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBwaW1AaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly91cmxkZWZlbnNlLnByb29mcG9pbnQuY29tL3YyL3VybD91PWh0dHBzLQ0K PiAzQV9fd3d3LmlldGYub3JnX21haWxtYW5fbGlzdGluZm9fcGltJmQ9RHdJR2FRJmM9SEFrWXVo NjNyc3VocjZTYw0KPiBiZmgwVWpCWGVNSy1uZGIzdm9EVFhjV3pvQ0kmcj1DUkIydEppUWVQazBj VC1oNUxHaEVXSC0NCj4gc194WFh1cDNIenZCU01SajVWRSZtPUZtQU41dFZKNGVjQ2VTS3MwcVJC UXhxNjhVckMzeVREaG0xcUxMDQo+IFE1OGQ0JnM9TFZfQ0QzckFsemZFTUp3NjZUeUpCOG9HSmpI MlNYVFRhNE1DRE12SUVsVSZlPQ0K From nobody Fri Aug 10 10:29:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03386130E63 for ; 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Fri, 10 Aug 2018 10:29:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a02:998f:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 10:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CC89175@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 10:29:38 -0700 Message-ID: To: John E Drake Cc: David Allan I , Eric Rosen , Michael McBride , "pim@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e4a950573181612" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:29:42 -0000 --0000000000009e4a950573181612 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also do not support adoption. All that needs to be said has been said. Thanks. Cheers, Greg On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:34 PM, John E Drake wrote: > Dave, > > Snipped, comment inline > > Yours Irrespectively, > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pim On Behalf Of David Allan I > > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 3:38 PM > > To: Eric Rosen ; Michael McBride > > ; pim@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > Replies in line, prefaced with DA> > > > > I do not see how this document can be considered for WG adoption. Given > > the set of signficant issues that have not received proper > consideration, it is > > not possible to say that this document is a good basis for future work. > > DA> Personally I=E2=80=99m not seeing any show stoppers in your list of > concerns. But > > that is my opinion. > > > [JD] I think a willing suspension of disbelief is required to accept the > premise that this draft is a good idea. > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback > > Dave > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pim mailing list > > pim@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_pim&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc > > bfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH- > > s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3DFmAN5tVJ4ecCeSKs0qRBQxq68UrC3yTDhm1qLL > > Q58d4&s=3DLV_CD3rAlzfEMJw66TyJB8oGJjH2SXTTa4MCDMvIElU&e=3D > > _______________________________________________ > > pim mailing list > > pim@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_pim&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc > > bfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH- > > s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3DFmAN5tVJ4ecCeSKs0qRBQxq68UrC3yTDhm1qLL > > Q58d4&s=3DLV_CD3rAlzfEMJw66TyJB8oGJjH2SXTTa4MCDMvIElU&e=3D > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim > --0000000000009e4a950573181612 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also do not support adoption. All that needs to be said = has been said. Thanks.

Cheers,
Greg

On Thu, Aug 9, 2= 018 at 4:34 PM, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> wrote:
Dave,

Snipped, comment inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pim <pim-bounces@ietf= .org> On Behalf Of David Allan I
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 3:38 PM
> To: Eric Rosen <erosen@junipe= r.net>; Michael McBride
> <Michael.McBride@huaw= ei.com>; pim@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework >
> Hi Eric:
>
> Replies in line, prefaced with DA>
>
> I do not see how this document can be consider= ed for WG adoption. Given
> the set of signficant issues that have not received proper considerati= on, it is
> not possible to say that this document is a good basis for future work= .
> DA> Personally I=E2=80=99m not seeing any show stoppers in your lis= t of concerns. But
> that is my opinion.

[JD]=C2=A0 I think a willing suspension of disbelief is required to = accept the premise that this draft is a good idea.
=C2=A0

>
> Thanks for the feedback
> Dave
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pim mailing list
> pim@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.co= m/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_pim&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc
> bfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3DFmAN5tVJ4ecCeSKs0qRBQxq68UrC3yTD= hm1qLL
> Q58d4&s=3DLV_CD3rAlzfEMJw66TyJB8oGJjH2SXTTa4MCDMvIElU&am= p;e=3D
> _______________________________________________<= br> > pim mailing list
> pim@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.co= m/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_pim&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc
> bfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3DFmAN5tVJ4ecCeSKs0qRBQxq68UrC3yTD= hm1qLL
> Q58d4&s=3DLV_CD3rAlzfEMJw66TyJB8oGJjH2SXTTa4MCDMvIElU&am= p;e=3D

______________________________= _________________
pim mailing list
pim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim

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LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcGltDQogICAgIA0KDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Aug 10 15:21:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF996130E48 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:21:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1kPfQGFOptFT for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6FD91292AD for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3661862C29C10; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 23:21:15 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 23:21:16 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.107]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.151]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:21:09 -0700 From: Michael McBride To: "Duncan, Ian" , Toerless Eckert CC: "pim@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework Thread-Index: AQHUL1RyK6jpfDvZK0KY0bcBTmQyq6S5u86A///KQWA= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 22:21:09 +0000 Message-ID: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CC9AB6B@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20180808201445.ewepwz27obaqvyyp@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US 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c3QNCiAgICBwaW1AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL3BpbQ0KICAgICANCg0KDQo= From nobody Mon Aug 13 04:03:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C96130EBF for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bs0dyPy049jh for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 04:03:51 -0700 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PNPNj7Ar/oiAYuSukdt4pcu/D/FlY7JfpsZ3m5+PL8E=; b=mXc0TVLpgxubhg2/CYfXRfEm9uNuUIMcYQFAHJbPTnG68WxLUOmH2oO+zC8oovaZJU x7vZKIGkUIDBbWPGsKBH9Jt/Vy7WmEqffloN9zQw9WHI6hG+w4PJSdFQfhzYWqJ8+QxE zoTR+AXRww6sovaTUbKpoAi6l5Qi6wtYZN06+Pmv56MNesV3K9v5OSjzdTeqO2s0r5O1 fCrFK7VNxJ6b4YJlX7l4COmIpdfIZUts4VYRa/spitIH6YYaLrOVqQ5u9/tKZLvRQlJf bj3nGBgxpVUqqLW1kjx9zOPQVCteWtCMAB0+xqkDVPScwMNnA0m2FjDAoybu5j7aNPN5 bevA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH6VM/SIYIWRa/STRlLCQ/eCTwUd/hDKv1A5sVuc6wasNLsSZh5 3oAviYG65iQCjvutWQZnsC3Vcn9gbHSCVngzsIDcMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPw0noCboOVX4qe2jhnaGhcPlEldOYaA0DSDBYZA4QJ5XlqDQXKr+slpvjFvRj3HzNqgtdEDsknDZrC7KvApxNs= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:26ce:: with SMTP id m197-v6mr10652652vkm.115.1534158229963; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 04:03:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a67:153:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 04:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Uma Chunduri Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 04:03:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: pim@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005387a205734f0c72" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Call for adoption of sr-mpls-multicast-framework X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:03:53 -0000 --0000000000005387a205734f0c72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW- This is definitely a novel approach and support this work.. But a)would like to see a next version as promised by Dave (for Eric's comments). b)Hope, some of the comments made by Toerless can be accommodated too in future versions. c) Would like to see more elaboration on the computation impact on IGPs overall -- Uma C. --0000000000005387a205734f0c72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW-

This is definitely a novel = approach and support this work..

But=C2=A0=C2=A0

a)would like to see a next version as promised by=C2=A0 D= ave (for Eric's comments).

b)Hope, some of the= comments made by Toerless can be accommodated too in future versions.

c) Would like to see more elaboration on the computati= on impact on IGPs=C2=A0 overall=C2=A0

--
Uma C.

--0000000000005387a205734f0c72-- From nobody Mon Aug 13 07:34:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietf.org Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12698130F2F; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:34:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jan Lindblad To: Cc: ietf@ietf.org, pim@ietf.org, draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153417087203.25020.10120277992606371332@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:34:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [pim] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-07 X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:34:32 -0000 Reviewer: Jan Lindblad Review result: On the Right Track This is my YANG-doctor review of draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-07. In the spring, I did an early review of the -02 version. Most of the comments from the earlier review are still valid. In some ways the document has progressed since -02, in many it has not, and in a few it has deteriorated. In my judgement, the document is not ready for last call. Many fundamentally important questions are still unresolved. Here are my review comments in rough falling order of importance. #1 Improper augment of /rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols Quoted from section 3.1: This model augments the core routing data model "ietf-routing" specified in [RFC8349]. The IGMP model augments "/rt:routing/ rt:control-plane-protocols" as opposed to augmenting "/rt:routing/ rt:control-plane-protocols/rt:control-plane-protocol", as the latter would allow multiple protocol instances, while the IGMP protocol is designed to be enabled or disabled as a single protocol instance on a network instance or a logical network element. The description above, and the actual augment statements in the YANG module violate the principles described in RFC 8349, the ietf-routing.yang module it augments. In RFC 8349, section 5.3. Control-Plane Protocol, the proper way of augmenting the routing module is described. The fact that this is a singleton protocol instance doesn't change this. Section 5.3 describes singleton cases as well. #2 Incorrect vendor refinement model Quoted from section 2.2: For the same reason, wide constant ranges (for example, timer maximum and minimum) will be used in the model. It is expected that vendors will augment the model with any specific restrictions that might be required. Vendors may also extend the features list with proprietary extensions. This is not acceptable. The principle suggested does not foster interoperability and useful standards. It is also not possible to do what the paragraph suggests in YANG. This was pointed out in the -02 review, and a suggestion was given there on how to address the problem. #3 Top level structures not optional Quoted from section 2.3: The current document contains IGMP and MLD as separate schema branches in the structure. The reason for this is to make it easier for implementations which may optionally choose to support specific address families. And the names of objects may be different between the IPv4 (IGMP) and IPv6 (MLD) address families. This problem was also pointed out in the -02 review. The author suggests that implementing igmp and/or mld is optional. This is not reflected in the YANG module, however. As currently modeled, both are currently mandatory to implement. If-feature is used liberally in the module, and could be used here as well. #4 Unclear meaning of optional leaves Quoted from section 3.1: Where fields are not genuinely essential to protocol operation, they are marked as optional. Some fields will be essential but have a default specified, so that they need not be configured explicitly. In fact, in the current version of the module, every leaf is optional (except keys, which cannot be optional). It is good to see the addition of defaults in many cases, but many unclear cases remain. E.g. leaf /igmp/global/enable is of type boolean. I understand what true and false implies for this leaf. But what does it mean if it is not set at all? Either add a default or describe the meaning in the description. Similarly, if the leaf version is not set on an igmp or mld interface, or on the interface-global level, what does that mean? Add default. require-router-alert? explicit-tracking? exclude-lite? Many of these are used in NP-containers inheriting all the from the root, which makes the use of mandatory highly discouraged in the current form. If the RFC 8349 augmentation principles are followed, the concern around mandatory falls, and some leafs with no sensible default could be marked mandatory instead. #5 All optional state All state data is optional, which means a conforming server could very well decide not to implement it. E.g. discontinuity-time is optional. Should a manager count on this being available? A situation where every leaf is optional is as nice and flexible for server implementors as it is frustrating and complicated for manager implementors to consume. A YANG model is an API contract and should consider the needs of both sides. The way this has been designed reveals that no representation for the consumer side of this model has been involved in the design. I would suggest thinking through what is the most essential state data for a manager, and make some leafs mandatory. #6 Abundant copy-paste There is abundant repetition in the YANG module. leaf version is defined 2 times for igmp with identical definitions, and two more for mld with identical definitions. leaf enable is defined once for the interface global-level, and with identical definition on the interface local level. leaf last-member-query-interval, query-interval and half a dozen other leaves are defined twice with identical definitions. #7 Leaf interface in the rpc clear*groups on line 1124, 1094 has type string. Should be a leafref? Describe what values are valid. #8 Leaf group-policy, source-policy on line 486, 527, 624, 689: type string. Should be leafref? Describe what values are valid. #9 Leaf group on line 705, 1101, 1131: Is any ipv4/6 address ok, or only a multicast address? Model accordingly. From nobody Mon Aug 13 18:23:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AE01310FE for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:23:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TqY9Mv27naKy for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A4A51310EC for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 49CDE3499A5E0 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 02:23:41 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 02:23:42 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.107]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.45]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:23:36 -0700 From: Michael McBride To: "pim@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh WGLC Thread-Index: AdQzbAUGSFv3Bu5hTdCgRAIShof3Kw== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 01:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.36] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6sjceml521mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [pim] pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh WGLC X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 01:23:46 -0000 --_000_8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6sjceml521mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello folks, Today begins a two week wglc for informational draft: https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-ietf-pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh-02. Please give it a read (i= t's 4 pages) and provide feedback on it's readiness to be sent to the IESG = for publication. In Montreal we had 3 in favor, none against. What say you? Thanks, mike --_000_8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6sjceml521mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello folks,

Today begins a two week wglc for informational draft= : https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh-02.= Please give it a read (it’s 4 pages) and provide feedback on it̵= 7;s readiness to be sent to the IESG for publication. In Montreal we had 3 = in favor, none against. What say you?

Thanks,

mike

--_000_8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6sjceml521mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Aug 15 06:24:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58461129C6B for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 06:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.71 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.71 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QAEghcW3FyrA for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 06:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F1A4130E5A for ; 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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pim@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pim@ietf.org Message-ID: <153438067462.3057.13275090928306003016@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04.txt X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:51:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Protocols for IP Multicast WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for Multicast Source Discovery Protocol (MSDP) Authors : Xufeng Liu Zheng Zhang Anish Peter Mahesh Sivakumar Feng Guo Pete McAllister Filename : draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2018-08-15 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model for the configuration and management of Multicast Source Discovery Protocol (MSDP) Protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 15 18:25:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietf.org Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604EE130E27; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:25:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: stig@venaas.com, pim-chairs@ietf.org, pim@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153438270935.3065.17834335424312943983.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:25:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [pim] pim - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:25:09 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Stig Venaas, a Chair of the pim working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Protocols for IP Multicast Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Stig Venaas Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mboned bess Second Priority: rtgwg bier i2rs rtgarea netconf netmod Third Priority: spring softwire idr nvo3 homenet lisp detnet anima manet People who must be present: Mike McBride Stig Venaas Alvaro Retana Resources Requested: Special Requests: This time we do NOT want to have a joint session with mboned. However, it would be great if the meetings could be in back-to-back slots in the same room. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Aug 15 19:50:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4205130EC7; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:49:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ygVRCV59MHu; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D66212F1A2; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4DC179359C877; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 03:49:52 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.39) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 03:49:52 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.217]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:49:50 +0800 From: Guofeng To: Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" CC: "ietf@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-07 Thread-Index: AQHUMxLGMeqvxFBTqEOtoXQkyfOjI6TBq0uw Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:49:49 +0000 Message-ID: <26C188D59156FB48A93A72ACF12DE0A5B1859613@DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <153417087203.25020.10120277992606371332@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153417087203.25020.10120277992606371332@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.201.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-07 X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:49:58 -0000 SGkgSmFuLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgcmV2aWV3LCB3ZSAoTWNhc3QgRGVzaWduIFRlYW0p IHdpbGwgZGlzY3VzcyB5b3VyIHJldmlldyBjb21tZW50cyBhbmQgdXBkYXRlIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4N Cg0KRmVuZw0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogSmFuIExpbmRibGFk 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Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7707612F1A5 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:25:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P7xQTnRFeINi for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EF01124C04 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 20:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C198D58C4C2; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 05:25:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id B022E4402CB; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 05:25:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 05:25:17 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael McBride Cc: "pim@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180816032517.s73nbs57yplw3c6t@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh WGLC X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 03:25:26 -0000 Had not read the document for Montreal, sorry. Did not find discsussions on ML. It would be good if one of the co-authors would do a spell/grammer fixup on the document before passing it to IETF/IESG review. Forces those reviewers to focus more on paylod feedback ;-)) (btw: i am bad on my own documents on this as well). Is the example topology in figure 1 an eBGP peering ? If so, please say so in text, otherwise maybe explain a bit more. What would be a reason to use a setup as in the example topology, for unicast only, e.g.: in the absence of multicast ? I can think of two reasons only: one is that you want to avoid IPv4 address space use, aka: make your IPv4 forwarders unnumbered on the interface for simplifiction. The other one is that three is some form of benefit of just having a single address familiy BGP connection. I am asking, because as soon as you bring in IP multicast, the solution proposes that you now must have an IPv4 address to support PIM on the interface. And if one goal of the setup was to be unnumbered on IPv4, then that goal would be violated. And once you do have IPv4 addressing, its unclear to me what the benefit is to only haven an IPv6 peering with mixed address families vs. simple separate IPv4 vs. IPv6 peerings that match the forwrding plane. Or the other way around: If you want to get rid of IPv4 signaling, why then do we not better define how to send PIM joins for IPv4 groups/channels via PIM IPv6 ? If i remember it correctly, all the address elements in PIM messages do explicitly indicate the AF as well. Another concern is that it may be somewhat risky to introduce this option such a long time after the option was specified but not used. As in: this might be a great attack vector to crash a neighboring, badly implemented PIM neighbor acting extremely surprised seeing such an unexpected AF. For "friedly" evolution of signaling, it might be better to use a new code point instead. Cheers Toerless On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 01:23:36AM +0000, Michael McBride wrote: > Hello folks, > > Today begins a two week wglc for informational draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh-02. Please give it a read (it's 4 pages) and provide feedback on it's readiness to be sent to the IESG for publication. In Montreal we had 3 in favor, none against. What say you? > > Thanks, > mike > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Fri Aug 17 10:06:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E05130DD5 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AL_9Uh27wKAY for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x541.google.com (mail-ed1-x541.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::541]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88973130ED3 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x541.google.com with SMTP id j21-v6so4890098edp.10 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TXIhRatG3cbf+WAodM2vmDFOGONdboVdl6yEY6CVIVE=; b=COfW5QsW+0sgjej52qIrLPsQXUJO30MoU3TAaSYTOIOy95jwx+5j7s10NAOeIrvVhS RKWhtFibPNlkvKjgvdwe2yJ6PkCJR6LfkIEamb+tCwU6zAKj/RlmFBUZs+c3QIBke/es nHt3Sq/kxrhzJcvaKueiZnvJXhRapiyhf7a2/DCfRrmcZbkPKsJeNE9iCXQSLT4FvM/+ QDjcNebJf9u4zBuR6mKTKKUlgwRBOPSqqKAldXBBbsKjUy5O1jno6OxFUjnQRltTFqen OhIZ8ckhUnYKf8nFwTQxsWz2DcvWnjqG1kJx91b+1N528wpsNbIXZ5uD/ZuLG4AlrF9o zjbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TXIhRatG3cbf+WAodM2vmDFOGONdboVdl6yEY6CVIVE=; b=d7tVdHJ8U9tAixGgELS1K5/CWAHR0DjBJZIgmQlvHII2FVtu2Hls/oYlIhMn33wANQ vE1il0LRS7y8Lx0s6sDM5+4FBV0CZexErK6/IfT46gQc0tl4Aw3OONH/IVKq4lAIuTyk 8VL36oFlHPQ2403sxekHFd1Mml2DFKtQRLMHi/FRWI1nW436v+KX5tEQhW6hRqES67z9 Q9w+noLIlPrpTUWRu0+uPR5ywviQbTeeD8NPQkNbT6pm/vr1GXcF5r0OnOyJRFn+R3hd B03WmetHIDFlpKai5QKwWRGFZmNpWnJ85ZjPZfLe1UfswDYYIN95/wevRbSBYjBFjtZm hRjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH4Z4kCZgWwwlDyAufk9nHFIfjLmvqtpAVCfuoQA/KkPlDm2Bpe Ndy+bb1mIjZauSHgV2X8KiCAw82cfTJaE5nAPy1N2w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPwJlVxf8VlC0pUeCvzEfT1zP6o0CfjVzIRb0HzhBheh4pYiGElYutBUzvwyoO82k/xY6KyDtlHLJRCgNmpdN6M= X-Received: by 2002:a50:9069:: with SMTP id z38-v6mr44138084edz.79.1534525587999; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:aa7:c50b:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180816032517.s73nbs57yplw3c6t@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20180816032517.s73nbs57yplw3c6t@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Stig Venaas Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:06:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Toerless Eckert Cc: Michael McBride , "pim@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh WGLC X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 17:06:31 -0000 Hi Toerless Appreciate getting good feedback. The WG is way too quiet. Please see inlin= e. On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Had not read the document for Montreal, sorry. > Did not find discsussions on ML. Yes, it's been too quiet. > It would be good if one of the co-authors would do a > spell/grammer fixup on the document before passing it to IETF/IESG > review. Forces those reviewers to focus more on paylod feedback ;-)) > (btw: i am bad on my own documents on this as well). I'll get this done for sure. > Is the example topology in figure 1 an eBGP peering ? If so, please > say so in text, otherwise maybe explain a bit more. Will do. > What would be a reason to use a setup as in the example topology, > for unicast only, e.g.: in the absence of multicast ? I can think > of two reasons only: one is that you want to avoid IPv4 address > space use, aka: make your IPv4 forwarders unnumbered on the interface > for simplifiction. The other one is that three is some form of > benefit of just having a single address familiy BGP connection. Yes, it is to minimize control plane and maybe management overhead. For whichever reason people have decided to deploy RFC 5549 for unicast, they wish to use the reachability information for multicast. They prefer not to change their unicast deployment to support multicast. > I am asking, because as soon as you bring in IP multicast, the solution > proposes that you now must have an IPv4 address to support PIM on the > interface. And if one goal of the setup was to be unnumbered on IPv4, > then that goal would be violated. And once you do have IPv4 addressing, > its unclear to me what the benefit is to only haven an IPv6 peering > with mixed address families vs. simple separate IPv4 vs. IPv6 peerings > that match the forwrding plane. > > Or the other way around: If you want to get rid of IPv4 signaling, why > then do we not better define how to send PIM joins for IPv4 > groups/channels via PIM IPv6 ? If i remember it correctly, all > the address elements in PIM messages do explicitly indicate the AF > as well. Sure, and this is maybe something we should do. I think networks that use 5549 would be quite happy if this was possible. This draft is just a minor improvement to at least allow them to simplify unicast. > Another concern is that it may be somewhat risky to introduce this option > such a long time after the option was specified but not used. As in: > this might be a great attack vector to crash a neighboring, badly > implemented PIM neighbor acting extremely surprised seeing such an > unexpected AF. For "friedly" evolution of signaling, it might be > better to use a new code point instead. Note that this option is widely implemented for IPv6, so it is being used. I doubt IPv4 implementations support it though, unless there is an AF independent implementation that includes this in their AFI code. If they ignore the option, then they won't be affected by this. If they did implement it for IPv4 but don't check the AF (not that 7761 does not require the AF to match the AF of the pim packet), then in the worst case they end up with a list of wrong/invalid IPv4 addresses. I think this is unlikely though, and it should not cause a crash. That one hello option has unexpected content, should not cause a crash. If it does, then that is a severe security issue and a broken implementation. Finally, the use of this option is in line with 7761. It is just an informational document saying that it can be useful to use a different AF for the address list option from the AF of the pim packet. Since this is already shipping, = it would be good to have it documented. And hopefully if other vendors have customers asking for a solution for RFC 5549 deployment, they will then consider solving it in the same way. Thanks, Stig > Cheers > Toerless > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 01:23:36AM +0000, Michael McBride wrote: >> Hello folks, >> >> Today begins a two week wglc for informational draft: https://tools.ietf= .org/html/draft-ietf-pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh-02. Please give it a read= (it's 4 pages) and provide feedback on it's readiness to be sent to the IE= SG for publication. In Montreal we had 3 in favor, none against. What say y= ou? >> >> Thanks, >> mike > >> _______________________________________________ >> pim mailing list >> pim@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim > > > -- > --- > tte@cs.fau.de > > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Tue Aug 21 14:55:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4D8130F04 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:55:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y9DFTTKujSe7 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BDAF130E93 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E44358C4B0; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 23:55:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id F24534402CB; Tue, 21 Aug 2018 23:55:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 23:55:44 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Stig Venaas Cc: "pim@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180821215544.cpyfzewwjdq3t2zr@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A1CCA37C6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20180816032517.s73nbs57yplw3c6t@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh WGLC X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:55:53 -0000 Thanks, Stig. So in summary, i would suggest the following refactoring of the doc:: a) context setting Move the example tpology and explanatory text to the start of the document, call it use-case or the like. Make the point that the solution described is intended for operators that want to deploy only an IPv6 signaling plane (BGP) to said neighbors, and that this solution allows them to add IP multicast support for both address families without having to add the "wrong" address famility unicast BG signaling, BUT: it is necessary to add a "wrong address family interface address and to run "wrong address famility" PIM, so the solution does not share in multicast the benefits of the original unicast-only solultion that the operator is deploying. That would set the context so that one can understand whats achieved and what not. b) intended status I think its not ideal that this is targeting informational . I think it would be better if it was standard track and updates rfc7761. Why would this be informational ? c) Given how we make it clear in a) how this is not the ideal solution to give operators for multicast what they want (and have with unicast), it would be good if there was an (informational) appendix outlining what would be required to achieve in multicast what is done in unicast: Extend PIM so that you could send "wrong address family" address elements over the "right address family" PIM transport. This would require IMHO some PIM Hello extension to indicate that the node does support this option. And explain that while technically being closer to the ultimate goal of the operator, it is not standardized here , because it requires (a lot?) more implementation work on the PIM side than the option described in this document. Cheers Toerless On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 10:06:27AM -0700, Stig Venaas wrote: > Hi Toerless > > Appreciate getting good feedback. The WG is way too quiet. Please see inline. > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > Had not read the document for Montreal, sorry. > > Did not find discsussions on ML. > > Yes, it's been too quiet. > > > It would be good if one of the co-authors would do a > > spell/grammer fixup on the document before passing it to IETF/IESG > > review. Forces those reviewers to focus more on paylod feedback ;-)) > > (btw: i am bad on my own documents on this as well). > > I'll get this done for sure. > > > Is the example topology in figure 1 an eBGP peering ? If so, please > > say so in text, otherwise maybe explain a bit more. > > Will do. > > > What would be a reason to use a setup as in the example topology, > > for unicast only, e.g.: in the absence of multicast ? I can think > > of two reasons only: one is that you want to avoid IPv4 address > > space use, aka: make your IPv4 forwarders unnumbered on the interface > > for simplifiction. The other one is that three is some form of > > benefit of just having a single address familiy BGP connection. > > Yes, it is to minimize control plane and maybe management overhead. For > whichever reason people have decided to deploy RFC 5549 for unicast, they > wish to use the reachability information for multicast. They prefer not to > change their unicast deployment to support multicast. > > > I am asking, because as soon as you bring in IP multicast, the solution > > proposes that you now must have an IPv4 address to support PIM on the > > interface. And if one goal of the setup was to be unnumbered on IPv4, > > then that goal would be violated. And once you do have IPv4 addressing, > > its unclear to me what the benefit is to only haven an IPv6 peering > > with mixed address families vs. simple separate IPv4 vs. IPv6 peerings > > that match the forwrding plane. > > > > Or the other way around: If you want to get rid of IPv4 signaling, why > > then do we not better define how to send PIM joins for IPv4 > > groups/channels via PIM IPv6 ? If i remember it correctly, all > > the address elements in PIM messages do explicitly indicate the AF > > as well. > > Sure, and this is maybe something we should do. I think networks that > use 5549 would be quite happy if this was possible. This draft is just a > minor improvement to at least allow them to simplify unicast. > > > Another concern is that it may be somewhat risky to introduce this option > > such a long time after the option was specified but not used. As in: > > this might be a great attack vector to crash a neighboring, badly > > implemented PIM neighbor acting extremely surprised seeing such an > > unexpected AF. For "friedly" evolution of signaling, it might be > > better to use a new code point instead. > > Note that this option is widely implemented for IPv6, so it is being used. > I doubt IPv4 implementations support it though, unless there is an AF > independent implementation that includes this in their AFI code. If they > ignore the option, then they won't be affected by this. If they did > implement it for IPv4 but don't check the AF (not that 7761 does not > require the AF to match the AF of the pim packet), then in the worst case > they end up with a list of wrong/invalid IPv4 addresses. I think this is > unlikely though, and it should not cause a crash. That one hello option > has unexpected content, should not cause a crash. If it does, then that > is a severe security issue and a broken implementation. > > Finally, the use of this option is in line with 7761. It is just an > informational > document saying that it can be useful to use a different AF for the address > list option from the AF of the pim packet. Since this is already shipping, it > would be good to have it documented. And hopefully if other vendors have > customers asking for a solution for RFC 5549 deployment, they will then > consider solving it in the same way. > > Thanks, > Stig > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 01:23:36AM +0000, Michael McBride wrote: > >> Hello folks, > >> > >> Today begins a two week wglc for informational draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-ipv4-prefix-over-ipv6-nh-02. Please give it a read (it's 4 pages) and provide feedback on it's readiness to be sent to the IESG for publication. In Montreal we had 3 in favor, none against. What say you? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> mike > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pim mailing list > >> pim@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim > > > > > > -- > > --- > > tte@cs.fau.de > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pim mailing list > > pim@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim > > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Aug 27 13:09:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F9B130DF5 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5PlPE4X7RWgj for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6316A12D7F8 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:09:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16919; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1535400561; x=1536610161; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=ZSk8KR9kAWAv4UsiBou9ExyE4sKIBfxYnRPqgupQ7ps=; b=B92j5wqHMr59mK/54wVdM1zD1tiXsR1fL0g58KdTJ99ua6eo6c/+N4uc d3Bc8YvAwLvwBTy1BlxLgws+UhYK6L7IclMQkmlG4uNKfMFu+1d8toIzA o7WhdX2Bc3xb9wM1tMt7nIyz5xYMVf1dua2vz2JkvS9a3adTs2Mf4VUIO 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DWAACLWYRb/4wNJK1aGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEIAQEBAYJXSS9lfxUTCot3jCiYMxSBZgsYAQqESQKDKSE0GAECAQECAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?CbRwMhTgCAQMBAWwLEAIBCD8HJwsUEQIEDgWDIQGBHWQPpUiKaAWJVheCAIE?= =?us-ascii?q?SJx+CTIMbAQGBLgESAYNRgiYCiBaEc4VSiFEJAo9tF4E/hDKIWJMiAhEUgSQ?= =?us-ascii?q?dOGFxcBU7KgGCPosVhT5viiaBH4EcAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.53,296,1531785600"; d="scan'208,217";a="163496020" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 27 Aug 2018 20:09:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w7RK9KFH000627 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:09:20 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1367.3; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:09:19 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-011.cisco.com ([64.101.220.151]) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com ([64.101.220.151]) with mapi id 15.00.1367.000; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:09:19 -0400 From: "Ramakrishnan Chokkanathapuram (ramaksun)" To: "Vikas Ramesh Kamath (vikkamat)" CC: Stig Venaas , "pim@ietf.org" , "Raunak Banthia (rbanthia)" Thread-Topic: [pim] Issues with pim registers Thread-Index: AQHT2OBIeF4wkrG9vEikR1ZD/Ta0OaQTsf8AgMFi9wA= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:09:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5E3BA7B3-F180-45B1-9A1D-10A3C9497888@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5E3BA7B3-F180-45B1-9A1D-10A3C9497888@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.198.144] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A6B6D40ED141481C9B72B7698AC3DC13ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [pim] Issues with pim registers X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:09:24 -0000 --_000_A6B6D40ED141481C9B72B7698AC3DC13ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, The draft draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing was discussed in the last I= ETF. Could you all please post feedback/thoughts on the draft.. Thanks, Ramki On Apr 26, 2018, at 11:56 AM, Vikas Ramesh Kamath (vikkamat) > wrote: Hello, As part of draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing, we have proposed a new st= andard for PIM NULL register and register stop messages. The motivation for= this draft came from the issues seen in customer environments where the hi= gh number of PIM NULL registers were causing traffic drops. We believe this new packet format will not only solve the above mentioned p= roblem but also will help in optimizing bandwidth in the network by minimiz= ing the number of NULL registers/register stops exchanged in the network. P= lease let us know your thoughts/feedback on this Thanks, Vikas On 4/20/18, 12:46 PM, "pim on behalf of Stig Venaas" on behalf of stig@venaas.com> wrote: Hi, I'm posting this as a WG chair. In the last meeting we had presentations of two drafts proposing alternatives or changes to the existing pim register mechanism, but we didn't have time to discuss them. The drafts were: draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing draft-anish-reliable-pim-registers It would be great if people can provide comments on the drafts. I also think it could be a good start if we could have a discussion about what problems people are seeing today. What issues motivated the authors to propose these drafts, and what issues are other people seeing with the current pim register mechanism. I believe these mechanisms may also apply to pim anycast-RP, so issues with that could also be interesting to consider. I'm hoping this email can start some discussion. While I'm suggesting discussing pim register issues in particular, any thoughts people have would be more than welcome. Thanks, Stig _______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim _______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim --_000_A6B6D40ED141481C9B72B7698AC3DC13ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9F1B52794E8F95498B2F9CD0D72F6930@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All,

The draft draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing w= as discussed in the last IETF. Could you all please post feedback/thoughts&nb= sp;on the draft..

Thanks,

Ramki

On Apr 26, 2018, at 11:56 AM, Vikas Ramesh Kamath (vikkamat= ) <vikkamat@cisco.com> wrote:

Hello,

As part of draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing, we have proposed a new st= andard for PIM NULL register and register stop messages. The motivation for= this draft came from the issues seen in customer environments where the hi= gh number of PIM NULL registers were causing traffic drops.

We believe this new packet format will not only solve the above mentioned p= roblem but also will help in optimizing bandwidth in the network by minimiz= ing the number of NULL registers/register stops exchanged in the network. P= lease let us know your thoughts/feedback on this

Thanks,

Vikas

On 4/20/18, 12:46 PM, "pim on behalf of Stig Venaas" <pim-bounces@ietf.org on beh= alf of stig@venaas.com> wrote= :

    Hi, I'm posting this as a WG chair.



    In the last meeting we had presentations of two dra= fts proposing

    alternatives or changes to the existing pim register mec= hanism, but we

    didn't have time to discuss them. The drafts were:



    draft-ramki-pim-null-register-packing

    draft-anish-reliable-pim-registers=



    It would be great if people can provide comments on= the drafts. I also

    think it could be a good start if we could have a discus= sion about

    what problems people are seeing today. What issues motiv= ated the

    authors to propose these drafts, and what issues are oth= er people

    seeing with the current pim register mechanism.



    I believe these mechanisms may also apply to pim an= ycast-RP, so issues

    with that could also be interesting to consider.



    I'm hoping this email can start some discussion. Wh= ile I'm suggesting

    discussing pim register issues in particular, any though= ts people have

    would be more than welcome.



    Thanks,

    Stig



    _______________________________________________

    pim mailing list

    pim@ietf.org<= /a>

    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim



_____= __________________________________________
pim mailing list
pim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/pim

--_000_A6B6D40ED141481C9B72B7698AC3DC13ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Aug 27 16:54:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88BA130E60 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Avsul7F-D37K for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com (mail-ed1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D569130DDD for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id p52-v6so32076eda.12 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UH7sncLJaHMTGYtFbqq6yo/hK3R15v1XmS58isOaqSk=; b=fpEeTHeP9SFanl6SaWwSqzTo2nS32lNoA+Gud6Xs3NheJOIWpCIAqnYCwkLzg/dDBw 4RK42brdqfFgTxbVXg0Yr9MEPaZmJpbAvMM6/p1dKzcKJH5n2grJNH7NlwIPFgcR/5JI j/V00jROdgdzu4OfwNmhRO6bL3XRUI+nsbe1Jm1pNqtz5Blmn2TZ0iex9rF1NOvoSBb/ 38gi+ll9dAKItYQH/9WE2afyWFyo/7b3DEskox/OGJuTbXw+P0l+vSwJVNxHW6IA6ssd zEISAsDaO48f3h3vBZa8l/Cl0jvIQhFUEBJoiti+gyu1+VM87XVx27Gt4PafOyHd5CnD S9Gw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UH7sncLJaHMTGYtFbqq6yo/hK3R15v1XmS58isOaqSk=; b=PkZTsxpFv/Uty/erdGwMOZKGBPHuvKL6SSsfU47cczTd4UDrALlhlIeZxgKMglDKFT p5kV5zZ64zelWp75SiDcXyA3vm6bfjmbfABoQNaItAS8YSQIkCWd5X2wU8JWdBpqtdhz fE3VIrHE2QVSn7r3Z107ZvabewLpXuaN+z4V3JXxPEjEscb6WLzM0QdQYW/LCIJ6mOcA 7YVSkwksBIBVoQXCF+5ieiYi+zZg+n+zU1WeTa9BIPkl2swfjJzDmlZ6ECTqVvYOfUqg xLlO1ZZY5roIVyHv+9kRxw1IAdjvvD/wGm7GaNrkE7lgUteGujzs0mHqVSm2ViVdhSGE XuZw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DjuvXFgvLHpiCRTYXOnWw+O/TiDh4AHqr21Bv/OHL/dAwUz2gw G6I3NzYB1Cy1jXfl/PfWW9jOqGhutMsjjgcggC/aE/OB X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaWxLX1f1MXtpbeveioQwOJp4gbESc2hYF2pVvYDWP3+uctsaunCx4hPvAXf6ZiBIDzzdqphxxVcsw3wxMaVWI= X-Received: by 2002:a50:81c6:: with SMTP id 64-v6mr19406411ede.93.1535414081696; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a50:9767:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Stig Venaas Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:54:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: pim@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [pim] WGLC for draft-ietf-pim-msdp-yang-04 X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 23:54:45 -0000 Hi This is the second WGLC for this document. There was no feedback during the first last call in February, but the document has been revised and improved since then. Mike and I believe it is time for another last call. Please respond by September 10th whether you believe it is ready for publication, and what issues you may have with the document. Thanks, Stig