From o.nethemsleym@adea.org Mon Dec 1 09:55:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB5F3A6AF4 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:55:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zeRy2W96-t89 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 77-44-116-35.xdsl.murphx.net (77-44-116-35.xdsl.murphx.net [77.44.116.35]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E9C9E3A6A48 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:55:24 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081201175524.E9C9E3A6A48@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:55:24 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage. From karlincon@aguascalientes.gob.mx Wed Dec 3 03:54:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789D33A6A74 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xkGzBLYfQ55d for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 03:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from host164-237-static.14-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it (host164-237-static.14-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it [79.14.237.164]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A7BB23A6861 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 03:54:29 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081203115429.A7BB23A6861@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 03:54:29 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage. From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 3 13:30:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7428828C1A8; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:30:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@ietf.org Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9A76628C174; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20081203213001.9A76628C174@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:30:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: pana@ietf.org Subject: [Pana] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04.txt X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access Working Group of the IETF. Title : Pre-authentication Support for PANA Author(s) : Y. Ohba Filename : draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2008-12-03 This document defines an extension to the Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) for proactively establishing a PANA SA (Security Association) between a PaC in one access network and a PAA in another access network to which the PaC may move. The proposed method operates across multiple administrative domains. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-12-03131519.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana --NextPart-- From nqq@amacielimoveis.com Wed Dec 3 17:55:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CB23A67E1 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:55:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.869 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.869 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mIfzntFPnD0g for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from adam.com.au (unknown [201.91.8.167]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 10C5E3A67EE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:55:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: RE: Message From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081204015501.10C5E3A67EE@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:55:00 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? 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From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 4 02:42:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651F63A69BF; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 02:42:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5873A69BF for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 02:42:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT=1.449] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q1T3Zc3Kxe3o for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 02:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 550D63A694E for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 02:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from LENOVO (dsl88-247-34762.ttnet.net.tr [88.247.135.202]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1L8BfE3BD9-0001Bb; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:42:37 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: , Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 12:42:21 +0200 Message-ID: <014301c955fc$fff6be50$ffe43af0$@yegin@yegin.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AclV/PO+rkF2VG5FSjGXM/qrhftbSg== Content-Language: en-us x-cr-puzzleid: {38BBE267-7DB6-4516-BF67-E633EC1A45AC} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: A+ii BY7H CexG DrTR Eh/M GPlN Gmvg Hc/v JnUW NKtm NuYP Qaz8 Rn3i W5Rv c7s+ fUqw; 3; YgBhAHMAYQB2AGEAcgBhAGoALgBwAGEAdABpAGwAQABuAG8AawBpAGEALgBjAG8AbQA7AHAAYQBuAGEAQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcAOwB2AGYAYQBqAGEAcgBkAG8AQAB0AGEAcgBpAC4AdABvAHMAaABpAGIAYQAuAGMAbwBtAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {38BBE267-7DB6-4516-BF67-E633EC1A45AC}; YQBsAHAAZQByAC4AeQBlAGcAaQBuAEAAeQBlAGcAaQBuAC4AbwByAGcA; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:42:06 GMT; UABBAE4AQQAtAFMATQAgAHIAZQB2AGkAZQB3AA== X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/FwSyehiLGk+5nLp1klMwVbEbF/m8W/74NhiS 7y24jVldBdsg5ws9ZY8HNPphXf/iH2mC7SKuhCNCH9W8KiHOIL ezIdXU/ZoJQfYjubjOsJQ== Cc: 'Basavaraj Patil' Subject: [Pana] PANA-SM review X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0104115996==" Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0104115996== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0144_01C9560D.C37F8E50" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C9560D.C37F8E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are my PANA state machine (draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-07.txt ) review comments. s/argment/argument s/key_availble/key_available Text is referring to AAA-Key. I think it should be "MSK". To initialize the EAP state machine, the PAA state machine defines an event notification mechanism to send an EAP (re)start event to the EAP peer. Should this be "to the EAP authenticator"? Does this state machine handle PaC sending PAR and expecting PAN? I presume you already have a graphical state machine diagram somewhere. Consider publishing a PDF-formatted version if this I-D with the diagram, or at least providing that diagram on panasec.org website. Alper ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C9560D.C37F8E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
 
Here are my PANA =
state machine (draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-07.txt) review =
comments.
 
s/argment/argu=
ment
s/key_availble/key_available
 
 
Text is =
referring to AAA-Key. I think it should be =
“MSK”.
 
 =
;  To initialize the EAP state machine, the PAA state machine =
defines an
   event notification =
mechanism to send an EAP (re)start event to =
the
   EAP =
peer.
 
 <=
/pre>
Should this be “to the EAP =
authenticator”?
 
Do=
es this state machine handle PaC sending PAR and expecting =
PAN?
 
 
I presume you already have a graphical state machine diagram =
somewhere. Consider publishing a PDF-formatted version if this I-D with =
the diagram, or at least providing that diagram on panasec.org =
website.
 
Alper
 
 
=
 
 



 
------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C9560D.C37F8E50-- --===============0104115996== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana --===============0104115996==-- From karamu.ford@aa.com Thu Dec 4 03:35:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865BA3A692D for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 03:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -23.717 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-23.717 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_MX=0.535, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TZy5hEJLmS0s for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 03:35:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from host-200-94-111-147.block.alestra.net.mx (host-200-94-111-147.block.alestra.net.mx [200.94.111.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 236AC3A6A01 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 03:35:22 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081204113523.236AC3A6A01@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 03:35:22 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage From manshqo@allflex.com.au Thu Dec 4 08:18:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808B93A6AB0 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:18:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -28.683 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-28.683 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 76CXEKlyIH-K for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from aldoca.com.ve (unknown [201.223.148.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 266CD28C0F2 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:18:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Order status From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081204161802.266CD28C0F2@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:18:00 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 4 09:45:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B60928C15D; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:45:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@ietf.org Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 2BF1F28C128; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:45:00 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20081204174501.2BF1F28C128@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: pana@ietf.org Subject: [Pana] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-08.txt X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access Working Group of the IETF. Title : State Machines for Protocol for Carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) Author(s) : V. Fajardo, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-08.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2008-12-04 This document defines the conceptual state machines for the Protocol for Carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA). The state machines consist of the PANA Client (PaC) state machine and the PANA Authentication Agent (PAA) state machine. The two state machines show how PANA can interface with the EAP state machines. The state machines and associated model are informative only. Implementations may achieve the same results using different methods. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-08.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-12-04093201.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana --NextPart-- From mail@agtahomecare.com Fri Dec 5 05:38:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13763A69B8 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:38:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -34.06 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-34.06 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5mEOc6hO2U+r for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201008251013.user.veloxzone.com.br (201008251013.user.veloxzone.com.br [201.8.251.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AF1B3A6C66 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:38:05 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081205133806.2AF1B3A6C66@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:38:05 -0800 (PST) Having trouble viewing this email? 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From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 8 12:59:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C0C3A6807; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:59:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044C23A6807 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:59:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.233, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x2NbVJN9AOSj for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80743A67FA for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id mB8Kwj1i000735 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:59:02 -0600 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:58:13 +0200 Received: from daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:58:13 +0200 Received: from 172.19.60.170 ([172.19.60.170]) by daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:58:12 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.14.0.081024 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:58:19 -0600 From: Basavaraj Patil To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: IETF73: PANA WG meeting minutes Thread-Index: AclZd7KmfywkuEiIkkKxRiNuPSXhLQ== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2008 20:58:13.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF7B8D60:01C95977] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: [Pana] IETF73: PANA WG meeting minutes X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) WG meeting minutes from IETF73 Meeting held on: THURSDAY, November 20, 2008 Chairs: Basavaraj Patil (basavaraj.patil at nokia.com) and Alper Yegin (alper.yegin at yegin.org) Meeting notes provided by: Alper Yegin and Victor Fajardo ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Document status: - State machine completed WG LC. Alper/Raj will review the document, and ask someone else as well. After one more revision we shall send it to IESG. - Pre-auth I-D is revised. The recommendation is to go to WG LC. - There is one new WG documet: PANA over DSL. It was accepted after a consensus call, and is now published as a WG document. It is in fairly reasonable state. Plan is to progress this I-D towards an Informational RFC. Another doc considered for WG document is pana-pemk. ----------------------------- 2. MIB, V. Fajardo I-D: draft-fajardo-pana-pana-mib-00 - Basic structure taken from opendiameter/pana. Created pana root. Broke it down to 3 parts. Everything is straight forward, common knowledge. Raj: let's get it reviewed by Glenn Keeni. It'd be good to get his feedback. Victor: do we proceed it as WG document? Raj: yes. ----------------------------- 3. State machine, V. Fajardo I-D: draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-07 Nothing much, just updated. Raj: WG LC completed. ----------------------------- 4. Pre-auth, R. Patil - Updated references only. Ready for WG LC now. - It needs some word smithing, editing. That's all. - Lionel: draft is still talking about PSR. - Raj: good catch. Will request Yoshi to revise the I-D. ---------------------------- 5. PANA over DSL, L. Morand I-D: draft-ietf-pana-panaoverdsl-00.txt - First version of the document as a wg document. - Added ipv6 example. - We had some text describing impacts on DSL entities. We needed for all the different use cases. Using ipv6 link-local address. - There is no issue for ipv6 case. - We have some discussion about unspecified ip address. - First one is paa discovery mechanism. - Call flows are based on broadcasting pci. - If you want to perform dhcpbased discpovery, you may use dhcp inform message. - It seems like use of unspecified ip address with dhcp inform is not allowed. - Second issue is related. Instead of using dhcp inform, we can use dhcpdiscover to trigger pana auth. We may have some pro problems though. There may be several dhcp discovers. You need to have some specific handling in BRAS. You may also have some interaction between dhcp process and pana process. - Alper: DHC WG discussing dhcpinform. Let's wait for their guidance. - On second issue. Alper does not have a preference. We can use dhcpdiscover and put some additional requirements on BRAS, like storing the last dhcpdiscover. it is up to other people to opine. - Get the doc reviewd by external people. - Raj: We'll try to find people to review this docment and give fedback.. ---------------------------------------- 6. pemk, a. yegin I-D: draft-ohba-pana-pemk-02 Document is spin-off from the original PANA base spec * Main subject: define a PANA client generating a master key (PaC-EP Master Key) * Use for lower layer chipering * Draft desribes how to derive key name, key scope, context and lifetime * Changes from 01 - key name definition - updated references * Next steps - accept this draft as a WG document - revise draft pana-ipsec to use PMEK as the IKE pre-shared key Raj : Put this question to the mailing list and see if this should be a WG document Lionel : We revise pana ipsec assuming the draft gets accepted Raj : pana ipsec is good to complete and seek volunteers. ---------------------------------------- 7. pana-ipsec I-D lionel: we have volnteered to revise pana-ipsec. we need to update it based on this draft. But pana-ipsec is left out of scope. Raj: given that we put lot of effort into this draft, we shall complete it. ---------------------------------------- 8. Next steps Update the state machine id Expect a review feedback from us. Lionel already identified an issue with pre-auth. We'll go ahead and do a LC on pemk draft. Are you still willing to work on ipsec id? Lionel: yes. Jari: I don't want you to be generating documents. Is everything on tha list important? Raj: ipsec is worthwile completing if we can find a volunteer. We are only progressing documents. we may not need to meet next ietf. State machine needs to progress. Also finish pre-auth. Jari: if the pemk does not require iana allocation, it can go ahead as individual submission. Raj: three docs are priority to complete. IPsec is not high priority. dsl is high priority. Raj: Two high priority, two not so high priority documents. Jari: DSL document will take a while. We shall not keep that alive too long either, it shall be submitted. Do those two, close the WG, submit the others if there is interest. Raj: There is also mib document. We'll need to get some mib expert to review it. Jari: We have ietf-mib doctors. _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From mailer-daemon@accela.net Mon Dec 8 15:00:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010663A6AC5 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:00:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -26.103 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-26.103 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_60=1, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.124, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b2Ij7+cRZejg for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp079166019165.dsl.hol.gr (ppp079166019165.dsl.hol.gr [79.166.19.165]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 220F83A699C for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:00:50 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081208230051.220F83A699C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:00:50 -0800 (PST)
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From pana-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 20 22:50:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3873A684B; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:50:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30B53A684B for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:50:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.901 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FR_DOT_FEVER_5=3.9, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vr0SY2Awtxq4 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466AF3A6833 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:50:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KC700B4MSCJE7@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for pana@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:50:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.3]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KC700AF3SCJOS@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for pana@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:50:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from D50B3A3B0629485 ([211.162.18.133]) by szxml01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KC700CSGSCHVC@szxml01-in.huawei.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:50:43 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:50:41 +0800 From: wuqin To: Yoshihiro Ohba , Basavaraj Patil Message-id: <00c701c96338$7120c060$ff5afea9@D50B3A3B0629485> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_N08rUNvpJnTyGC2BBwQ/hQ)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <20081025144337.GA20427@steelhead.localdomain> Cc: pana@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pana] I-D: draft-ietf-pana-preauth X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_N08rUNvpJnTyGC2BBwQ/hQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,Yoshihiro and all: I happened to review this draft on pre-authentication recently. Since it is relevant to hokey working group, May I have some comments on this document? Attached please find my comments marked with [Qin]:.Thanks! Best Regards! -Qin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: "Basavaraj Patil" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [Pana] I-D: draft-ietf-pana-preauth >A new version of pana-preauth I-D has been submitted. > > I did just editorial changes like updating references, and I think > it's ready for WG last call. > > Regards, > Yoshihiro Ohba > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:28:41AM -0500, Basavaraj Patil wrote: >> >> Hi Yoshi, >> >> At the last IETF, we decided to progress this I-D on standards track. The >> I-D has expired. Can you please revise the I-D and let us know if we can >> proceed to WG last call? >> >> -Raj >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana --Boundary_(ID_N08rUNvpJnTyGC2BBwQ/hQ) Content-type: text/plain; name="draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04 - Pre-authentication Support for PANA_Review_Qin.txt" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04 - Pre-authentication Support for PANA_Review_Qin.txt" draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04 - Pre-authentication Support for PANA [RFCs/IDs] [Plain Text] [WG] [Email] [Diff1] [Diff2] [Nits] Versions: (draft-ohba-pana-preauth) 00 01 02 03 04 PANA Working Group Y. Ohba Internet-Draft Toshiba Intended status: Standards Track December 3, 2008 Expires: June 6, 2009 Pre-authentication Support for PANA draft-ietf-pana-preauth-04 Status of this Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. This Internet-Draft will expire on June 6, 2009. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2008 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Abstract This document defines an extension to the Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) for proactively establishing Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 1] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 a PANA SA (Security Association) between a PaC in one access network and a PAA in another access network to which the PaC may move. The proposed method operates across multiple administrative domains. Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.1. Specification of Requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. Terminogy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Pre-authentication Procedure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 4. PANA Extensions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5. Authorization and Accounting Considerations . . . . . . . . . . 8 6. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 9.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 9.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 2] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 1. Introduction The Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) [RFC5191] carries EAP messages between a PaC (PANA Client) and a PAA (PANA Authentication Agent) in the access network. If the PaC is a mobile device and is capable of moving one access network to another while running its applications, it is critical for the PaC to perform a handover seamlessly without degrading the performance of the applications during the handover period. When the handover requires the PaC to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access network, the signaling to establish the PANA session should be completed as fast as possible. [Qin]:Before the mobile device moves, is it true to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access network? How to keep this PANA session uninterruption during the mobile device moves? Which identifier is used to distinguish this PANA session? the old IP address allocated in the old access network? the new IP address allocated in the new access network? This document defines an extension to the PANA protocol [RFC5191] used for proactively executing EAP authentication and establishing a PANA SA (Security Association) between a PaC in an access network and [Qin]:It mentions after Pre-authentication, PANA SA is required to be established, However withouth key materials derivation and delivery, a PANA SA can not be established. So key materials derivation and delivery mechanism is one integral part of PANA Pre-authentication, is it true? How to perform key materials derivation and delivery during the pre-authentication? a PAA in another access network to which the PaC may move. The proposed method operates across multiple AAA domains. [Qin]:What I understand PANA authentication here is one kind of user authentication, However without network entry,i.e., the PaC attaching to the new access network, why the new access network allow a PaC in the previous access network establish a PANA SA with a PAA in the new access network? I wonder for network security consideration, whether a PaC far away from the new Access network can get permission to be remote authentication? The extension to the PANA protocol is designed to realize direct pre-authentication defined in [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps]. [Qin]Why PANA protocol is only used to realize direct pre-authentication? Why indirect pre-authentication can not be realized based PANA protocol? 1.1. Specification of Requirements In this document, several words are used to signify the requirements of the specification. These words are often capitalized. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. 2. Terminogy The following terms are used in this document in addition to the terms defined in [RFC5191]. Serving PAA (SPAA): A PAA that resides in the serving network and provides network access authentication for a particular PaC. For simplicity, this document assumes that there is only one SPAA in the serving network while the pre-authentication mechanism described in this document is generally applicable to the case where there are two or more SPAAs in the serving network. Candidate PAA (CPAA): A PAA that resides in a candidate network to which the PaC may move. A CPAA for a particular PaC may be a SPAA for another PaC. Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 3] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 Pre-authentication: Pre-authentication refers to EAP pre- authentication and defined as the utilization of EAP to pre- establish EAP keying material on an authenticator prior to arrival of the peer at the access network served by that authenticator [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps]. In this draft, EAP pre- authentication is performed between a PaC and a CPAA. Pre-authorization: An authorization for a PaC, made by a CPAA for the PaC at the time of pre-authentication. Post-authorization: An authorization for a PaC, made by a CPAA for the PaC when the CPAA becomes the SPAA for the PaC. Pre-authorization SA: A PANA SA established between a PaC and its CPAA. Post-authorization SA: A PANA SA established between the PaC and its SPAA. 3. Pre-authentication Procedure A PaC that supports pre-authentication may establish a PANA session for each CPAA. There may be several mechanisms for a PaC and a CPAA to discover each other. However, such mechanisms are out of the scope of this document. There may be a number of criteria for CPAA selection, the timing to start pre-authentication and the timing to make a pre-authorization SA a post-authorization SA (and hence the CPAA becomes the SPAA). Such criteria can be implementation specific and thus are outside the scope of this document. Pre-authentication may be initiated by both a PaC and a CPAA. A new 'E' (prE-authentication) bit is defined in the PANA header. When pre-authentication is performed, the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit of PANA messages are set in order to indicate whether this PANA run is for pre-authentication. Use of pre-authentication is negotiated as follows. o When a PaC initiates pre-authentication, it sends a PANA-Client- Initiation (PCI) message with the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit set. The PCI message MUST be unicast. The CPAA responds with a PANA-Auth-Request (PAR) message with the 'S' (Start) and 'E' (prE- authentication) bits set only if it supports pre-authentication. Otherwise, it MUST silently discard the message. Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 4] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 o When a CPAA initiates pre-authentication, it sends a PAR message with the 'S' (Start) and 'E' (prE-authentication) bits set. The PaC responds with a PANA-Auth-Answer (PAN) message with the 'S' (Start) and 'E' (prE-authentication) bits set only if it supports pre-authentication. Otherwise, it MUST silently discard the message. o Once the PaC and CPAA have agreed on performing pre-authentication using the 'S' (Start) and 'E' (prE-authentication) bits, the subsequent PANA messages exchanged between them MUST have the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit set. When a CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization SA becomes the SPAA due to, e.g., movement of the PaC, the PaC performs an IP address update procedure defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order to update the SPAA with the PaC's new address obtained from the new serving network. PANA-Notification-Request (PNR) and PANA- Notification-Answer (PNA) messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set are used for this purpose. The completion of the IP address update procedure will change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. In this case, the 'E' MUST NOT be set in the PNR and PNA messages and subsequent PANA messages. [Qin]It seems the IP address udpate procedure is a part of pre-authentication, without IP address udpate, Pre-authentication can not be regarded as completion. However before the IP address is updated, how to make PANA pre-authentication keep service continuity? If there is another CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization SA and the PaC wants to keep the pre-authorization SA after the change of SPAA, the PaC also performs an IP address update procedure [Qin] Do you mean PANA pre-authentication can work for dual radio case or something else? defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order to update the CPAA with the PaC's new address. PNR and PNA messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set is used for this purpose. In this case, the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit MUST be set in the PNR and PNA messages and subsequent PANA messages. The IP address update procedure with the CPAA will not change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. [Qin] At the first time when the PaC establish SA with one CPAA, the IP address update procedure with this CPAA can change the pre-authentication SA to a post-authroziation SA? However,At the second time when the Pac establish SA with another CPAA, why the IP adress update procedure with this CPAA can not change the pre-authorization to a post authorization SA? The pre-authorization SA and the corresponding PANA session between the PaC and a CPAA is deleted by entering the termination phase of the PANA protocol. Example call flows for PaC-initiated pre-authentication and PAA- initiated pre-authentication are shown in Figure 1 and Figure 2, respectively. [Qin]In the example call flows, which steps are used to generate keying materials? which step is used to establish the SA? How many roundtrips exchange it takes to perform pre-authentication between PaC and CPAA? how long it takes to complete a full pre-authentication? what's the handover performance improvement in constrast with EAP pre-authentication? Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 5] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 PaC CPAA | | +------------------+ | |Pre-authentication| | |trigger | | +------------------+ | | PCI w/'E' bit set | |------------------------------------------------>| | PAR w/'S' and 'E' bits set | |<------------------------------------------------| | PAN w/'S' and 'E' bits set | |------------------------------------------------>| | PAR-PAN exchange w/'E' bit set | |<----------------------------------------------->| | +------------------+ | |pre-authorization | | +------------------+ | PAR w/'C' and 'E' bits set | |<------------------------------------------------| | PAN w/'C' and 'E' bits set | |------------------------------------------------>| . . . . . . +----------+ | | Movement | | +----------+ | | PNR w/ 'P' bit set and w/o 'E' bit set | |------------------------------------------------>| | +-------------------+ | |post-authorization | | |(CPAA becomes SPAA)| | +-------------------+ | PNA w/ 'P' bit set and w/o 'E' bit set | |<------------------------------------------------| | | Figure 1: PaC-initiated Pre-authentication Call Flow Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 6] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 PaC CPAA | | | +------------------+ | |Pre-authentication| | |trigger | | +------------------+ | PAR w/'S' and 'E' bits set | |<------------------------------------------------| | PAN w/'S' and 'E' bits set | |------------------------------------------------>| | PAR-PAN exchange w/'E' bit set | |<----------------------------------------------->| | +------------------+ | |pre-authorization | | +------------------+ | PAR w/'C' and 'E' bits set | |<------------------------------------------------| | PAN w/'C' and 'E' bits set | |------------------------------------------------>| . . . . . . +----------+ | | Movement | | +----------+ | | PNR w/ 'P' bit set and w/o 'E' bit set | |------------------------------------------------>| | +-------------------+ | |post-authorization | | |(CPAA becomes SPAA)| | +-------------------+ | PNA w/ 'P' bit set and w/o 'E' bit set | |<------------------------------------------------| | | Figure 2: PAA-initiated Pre-authentication Call Flow 4. PANA Extensions A new 'E' (prE-authentication) bit is defined in Flags field of PANA header as follows. 0 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |R S C A P I E r r r r r r r r r| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 7] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 E(PrE-authentication) When pre-authentication is performed, the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit of PANA messages are set in order to indicate whether this PANA run is for establishing a pre- authorization SA. The exact usage of this bit is described in Section 3. This bit is to be assigned by IANA. 5. Authorization and Accounting Considerations A pre-authorization and a post-authorization for the PaC may have different authorization policies. For example, the pre-authorization policy may not allow the PaC to sent or receive packets through an Enforcement Point (EP) that is under control of the CPAA, while both the pre-authorization and post-authorization policies may allow installing credentials to the EP, where the credentials are used for establishing a security association for per-packet cryptographic filtering. In an access network where accounting is performed, accounting starts when the pre-authorization SA becomes the post-authorization SA by default. [Qin] What's the main difference between pre-authorization SA and post-authorization SA? Only IP address that distinguish these two SA? Depending on the pre-authorization policy, accounting may start immediately after the pre-authorization SA is established. 6. Security Considerations Since the mechanism described in this document is designed to work across multiple access networks, each EP in the serving network SHOULD be configured to allow PANA messages to be forwarded between a PaC and a CPAA only if the PaC has a post-authorization SA with the SPAA in order to avoid an unauthorized PaC to initiate pre- authentication. Also, each access network that supports pre- authentication SHOULD block pre-authentication attempts from networks from which a handover is not likely to occur. When pre-authentication is initiated by a CPAA, it is possible that the PaC simultaneously communicates with multiple CPAAs initiating pre-authentication. In order to avoid possible resource consumption attacks on the PaC caused by a blind attacker initiating pre- authentication for the PaC by changing source addresses, the PaC SHOULD limit the maximum number of CPAAs allowed to communicate. The pre-authentication mechanism defined in this document does not have an issue on context binding in which link-layer independent context carried over pre-authentication signaling is bound to the link-layer specific context [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps], because the same EAP transport protocol (i.e., PANA) is used for normal authentication and pre-authentication in the candidate network. Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 8] Internet-Draft Pre-authentication Support for PANA December 2008 7. IANA Considerations As described in Section 4, bit 6 of the Flags field of PANA Header needs to be assigned by IANA for the 'E' (prE-authentication) bit. 8. Acknowledgments The author would like to thank Alper Yegin, Ashutosh Dutta, Julien Bournelle and Sasikanth Bharadwaj for their valuable comments. 9. References 9.1. Normative References [RFC5191] Forsberg, D., Ohba, Y., Patil, B., Tschofenig, H., and A. Yegin, "Protocol for Carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA)", RFC 5191, May 2008. 9.2. Informative References [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps] Ohba, Y., "EAP Pre-authentication Problem Statement", draft-ietf-hokey-preauth-ps-04 (work in progress), September 2008. Author's Address Yoshihiro Ohba Toshiba America Research, Inc. 1 Telcordia Drive Piscateway, NJ 08854 USA Phone: +1 732 699 5305 Email: yohba@tari.toshiba.com Ohba Expires June 6, 2009 [Page 9] Html markup produced by rfcmarkup 1.73, available from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ --Boundary_(ID_N08rUNvpJnTyGC2BBwQ/hQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana --Boundary_(ID_N08rUNvpJnTyGC2BBwQ/hQ)-- From kazuma01@alto.ocn.ne.jp Sat Dec 20 23:32:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9F43A690F for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:32:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L3VE2OMQda0k for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpc2-birk5-0-0-cust924.bagu.cable.ntl.com (cpc2-birk5-0-0-cust924.bagu.cable.ntl.com [82.8.199.157]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AF5A3A6857 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:32:39 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Incredible preparations at unbelievably low prices! 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From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 22 12:40:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B345A3A6AA5; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D681A3A6915 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:40:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id moeLk69AsVPy for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1403:0:212:17ff:fe52:7811]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C333A6A6B for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from steelhead.localdomain (tarij-62.tari.toshiba.com [172.30.24.110]) by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mBMKcVj4077197; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:38:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from yohba@tari.toshiba.com) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LErZC-0002et-7O; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:39:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:39:54 -0500 From: Yoshihiro Ohba To: wuqin Message-ID: <20081222203954.GC7742@steelhead.localdomain> References: <20081025144337.GA20427@steelhead.localdomain> <00c701c96338$7120c060$ff5afea9@D50B3A3B0629485> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00c701c96338$7120c060$ff5afea9@D50B3A3B0629485> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: pana@ietf.org, Basavaraj Patil Subject: Re: [Pana] I-D: draft-ietf-pana-preauth X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi Qin, Thank you very much for the review! Please see my comments below. On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 02:50:41PM +0800, wuqin wrote: > > 1. Introduction > > The Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) > [RFC5191] carries EAP messages between a PaC (PANA Client) and a PAA > (PANA Authentication Agent) in the access network. If the PaC is a > mobile device and is capable of moving one access network to another > while running its applications, it is critical for the PaC to perform > a handover seamlessly without degrading the performance of the > applications during the handover period. When the handover requires > the PaC to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access > network, the signaling to establish the PANA session should be > completed as fast as possible. > > [Qin]:Before the mobile device moves, is it true to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access network? Yes. > How to keep this PANA session uninterruption during the mobile device moves? Which identifier is used to distinguish > this PANA session? the old IP address allocated in the old access network? the new IP address allocated in the new access network? The PANA session is identified by the Session Identifier defined in RFC 5141. In the case of PANA pre-authentication, the old IP address allocated in the old access network is used for establishing the PANA session with the PAA in another access network. > > This document defines an extension to the PANA protocol [RFC5191] > used for proactively executing EAP authentication and establishing a > PANA SA (Security Association) between a PaC in an access network and > > [Qin]:It mentions after Pre-authentication, PANA SA is required to be established, However > withouth key materials derivation and delivery, a PANA SA can not be established. So key materials > derivation and delivery mechanism is one integral part of PANA Pre-authentication, is it true? > How to perform key materials derivation and delivery during the pre-authentication? Key derivation and delivery for the candidate PAA is performed in the same as normal PANA session, i.e., an MSK is derived and delivered to the PAA from EAP server. > > a PAA in another access network to which the PaC may move. The > proposed method operates across multiple AAA domains. > > [Qin]:What I understand PANA authentication here is one kind of user authentication, However without network entry,i.e., the PaC attaching to the new access network, why the new access network allow a PaC in the previous access network establish a PANA SA with a PAA in the new access network? I wonder for network security consideration, whether a PaC far away from the new Access network can get permission to be remote authentication? Well, it depends on network access policies which is out of scope of this draft. If a PaC is communicating with the candidate PAA from an access network that is not allowed for pre-authentication based on the policies, then pre-authentication attempt can be rejected. > > The extension to the PANA protocol is designed to realize direct pre-authentication > defined in [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps]. > > [Qin]Why PANA protocol is only used to realize direct pre-authentication? Why indirect pre-authentication > can not be realized based PANA protocol? I think technicaly it is possible to use PANA for indirect pre-authentication (described in draft-ietf-hokey-preauth-ps) as well. However, in indirect pre-autentication, the role of the serving authenticator is just forwarding EAP messages between peer and candidate authenticator, and hence no EAP peer or authenticator state needs to be maintained on the serving authenticator with regard to pre-authentication. So I would think that it may be too much for the serving authenticator to use PANA for indirect pre-authentication. > > When a CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization SA becomes the > SPAA due to, e.g., movement of the PaC, the PaC performs an IP > address update procedure defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order > to update the SPAA with the PaC's new address obtained from the new > serving network. PANA-Notification-Request (PNR) and PANA- > Notification-Answer (PNA) messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set are used > for this purpose. The completion of the IP address update procedure > will change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. In > this case, the 'E' MUST NOT be set in the PNR and PNA messages and > subsequent PANA messages. > > [Qin]It seems the IP address udpate procedure is a part of pre-authentication, > without IP address udpate, Pre-authentication can not be regarded as completion. > However before the IP address is updated, how to make PANA pre-authentication > keep service continuity? According to RFC 5193, the PaC dynamically or statically configures an IP address prior to running PANA. So we assume that the new IP address is configured prior to completion of post-authorization with CPAA. This is certainly possible if lower-layer security for the target access network is bootstrapped using the MSK established by PANA pre-authentication before obtaining the new IP address. > > If there is another CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization > SA and the PaC wants to keep the pre-authorization SA after the > change of SPAA, the PaC also performs an IP address update procedure > [Qin] Do you mean PANA pre-authentication can work for dual radio case or something else? PANA pre-authentication can work with single and dual radios (but effectiveness for dual radio case may not be so large). > > defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order to update the CPAA with > the PaC's new address. PNR and PNA messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set > is used for this purpose. In this case, the 'E' (prE-authentication) > bit MUST be set in the PNR and PNA messages and subsequent PANA > messages. The IP address update procedure with the CPAA will not > change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. > > [Qin] At the first time when the PaC establish SA with one CPAA, the IP address update procedure > with this CPAA can change the pre-authentication SA to a post-authroziation SA? However,At the second time when the Pac establish SA with another CPAA, why the IP adress update procedure with this CPAA can not change the pre-authorization to a post authorization SA? It depends on 'E' bit settings. If the IP address changes but with 'E' bit set, then migration from pre-authentication SA to post-authentication SA will not occur. On the other hand, the CPAA should allow migration from pre-authentication SA to post-authentication SA only from an interface that serves for its access network to avoid undesired upgrading to post-authentication SA by a remote node. We can add some text on it. > > > The pre-authorization SA and the corresponding PANA session between > the PaC and a CPAA is deleted by entering the termination phase of > the PANA protocol. > > Example call flows for PaC-initiated pre-authentication and PAA- > initiated pre-authentication are shown in Figure 1 and Figure 2, > respectively. > [Qin]In the example call flows, which steps are used to generate keying materials? > which step is used to establish the SA? > How many roundtrips exchange it takes to perform pre-authentication between PaC and CPAA? how long it takes to complete > a full pre-authentication? what's the handover performance improvement in constrast with EAP pre-authentication? Keying material is established with CPAA in the last PAR/PAN exchange with 'C' bit set, in the same way as RFC 5191. Message exchanges between PaC and CPAA for pre-authentication are the same as RFC 5191, the number of roundtrips depend on the EAP method, in the same way as RFC 5191. The only difference is additional 'E' bit is used in PANA pre-auth. I don't understand the last question since PANA pre-authentication is an EAP pre-authentication. > > 5. Authorization and Accounting Considerations > > A pre-authorization and a post-authorization for the PaC may have > different authorization policies. For example, the pre-authorization > policy may not allow the PaC to sent or receive packets through an > Enforcement Point (EP) that is under control of the CPAA, while both > the pre-authorization and post-authorization policies may allow > installing credentials to the EP, where the credentials are used for > establishing a security association for per-packet cryptographic > filtering. > > In an access network where accounting is performed, accounting starts > when the pre-authorization SA becomes the post-authorization SA by > default. > [Qin] What's the main difference between pre-authorization SA and post-authorization SA? > Only IP address that distinguish these two SA? We distinguish the two SA based on the 'E' bit settings. It may be possible to use IP address solely to distinguish the two SAs, e.g., PANA message from IP address that do not belong to the realm of the PAA could be associated with a pre-authorization SA. However, I would not recommend that scheme because it will be vulnerable to IP address spoofing. IMO, it's securer to use proteced indication based on 'E' bit (note that 'E' bit is protected in the last PAR/PAN exchange). Thanks, Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From mueller@alice-dsl.net Mon Dec 22 13:23:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CDD3A6A3D for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.296 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.296 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YneOfe7YDFk6 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 190.222-136-217.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be (190.222-136-217.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be [217.136.222.190]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A9433A6806 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:23:23 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: I had an accident, come now! 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From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 22 19:23:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pana-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C373A6932; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:23:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pana@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D973A6932 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:23:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.682 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.682 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2PN4s5pl6Cdr for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C920E3A67F4 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KCB000AR81Z7Q@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:22:47 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.12]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KCB0089H81Z07@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:22:47 +0800 (CST) Received: from w53375a ([10.164.12.28]) by szxml05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KCB00B8E81YY6@szxml05-in.huawei.com> for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:22:47 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:22:46 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Yoshihiro Ohba Message-id: <000f01c964ad$ba33b340$1c0ca40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <20081025144337.GA20427@steelhead.localdomain> <00c701c96338$7120c060$ff5afea9@D50B3A3B0629485> <20081222203954.GC7742@steelhead.localdomain> Cc: pana@ietf.org, Basavaraj Patil Subject: Re: [Pana] I-D: draft-ietf-pana-preauth X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: pana-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Dear Yoshihiro: Thank for your reply, please see my followup comments below. -Qin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: "wuqin" Cc: "Basavaraj Patil" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [Pana] I-D: draft-ietf-pana-preauth > Hi Qin, > > Thank you very much for the review! Please see my comments below. > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 02:50:41PM +0800, wuqin wrote: >> >> 1. Introduction >> >> The Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA) >> [RFC5191] carries EAP messages between a PaC (PANA Client) and a PAA >> (PANA Authentication Agent) in the access network. If the PaC is a >> mobile device and is capable of moving one access network to another >> while running its applications, it is critical for the PaC to perform >> a handover seamlessly without degrading the performance of the >> applications during the handover period. When the handover requires >> the PaC to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access >> network, the signaling to establish the PANA session should be >> completed as fast as possible. >> >> [Qin]:Before the mobile device moves, is it true to establish a PANA session with the PAA in the new access network? > > Yes. > >> How to keep this PANA session uninterruption during the mobile device moves? Which identifier is used to distinguish >> this PANA session? the old IP address allocated in the old access network? the new IP address allocated in the new access network? > > The PANA session is identified by the Session Identifier defined in > RFC 5141. In the case of PANA pre-authentication, the old IP address > allocated in the old access network is used for establishing the PANA > session with the PAA in another access network. [Qin] The Mobile IP protocol allows the mobile move from one link to another link without changing its "home address". In this way, the transport and high-layer connection can be maintained. In PANA pre-authentication scenario, When the mobile attachs to the new link, the old IP address (i.e., old Care of address) will not be available, Before the mobile gets a new IP address, How can you keep the PANA session uninterruption? >> >> This document defines an extension to the PANA protocol [RFC5191] >> used for proactively executing EAP authentication and establishing a >> PANA SA (Security Association) between a PaC in an access network and >> >> [Qin]:It mentions after Pre-authentication, PANA SA is required to be established, However >> withouth key materials derivation and delivery, a PANA SA can not be established. So key materials >> derivation and delivery mechanism is one integral part of PANA Pre-authentication, is it true? >> How to perform key materials derivation and delivery during the pre-authentication? > > Key derivation and delivery for the candidate PAA is performed in the > same as normal PANA session, i.e., an MSK is derived and delivered to > the PAA from EAP server. [Qin] Since the key derivation and delivery happen before PANA SA establishment and after the successful pre-authentication, the key derivation and delivery is a integral part of pre-authentication. >> >> a PAA in another access network to which the PaC may move. The >> proposed method operates across multiple AAA domains. >> >> [Qin]:What I understand PANA authentication here is one kind of user authentication, However without network entry,i.e., the PaC attaching to the new access network, why the new access network allow a PaC in the previous access network establish a PANA SA with a PAA in the new access network? I wonder for network security consideration, whether a PaC far away from the new Access network can get permission to be remote authentication? > > Well, it depends on network access policies which is out of scope of > this draft. If a PaC is communicating with the candidate PAA from an > access network that is not allowed for pre-authentication based on the > policies, then pre-authentication attempt can be rejected. [Qin] So you agree in some scenario, pana-preauthentication does not work. Actually if my understanding is correct, the existing access network owned by the operator does not support this feature,does it? >> >> The extension to the PANA protocol is designed to realize direct pre-authentication >> defined in [I-D.ietf-hokey-preauth-ps]. >> >> [Qin]Why PANA protocol is only used to realize direct pre-authentication? Why indirect pre-authentication >> can not be realized based PANA protocol? > > I think technicaly it is possible to use PANA for indirect > pre-authentication (described in draft-ietf-hokey-preauth-ps) as well. > However, in indirect pre-autentication, the role of the serving > authenticator is just forwarding EAP messages between peer and > candidate authenticator, and hence no EAP peer or authenticator state > needs to be maintained on the serving authenticator with regard to > pre-authentication. So I would think that it may be too much for the > serving authenticator to use PANA for indirect pre-authentication. [Qin] I can not agree. In the draft-ietf-hokey-preauth-ps-05, it said Indirect pre- authentication is needed if the peer cannot discover the candidate authenticator's IP address or if IP communication is not available due to security or network topology reasons. It seems what you explain is not consistent with the text mentioned above. Actually, if the serving authenticator can perform pre-authentication on behalf of the mobile, it will alleviate the overhead of the mobile greatly. >> >> When a CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization SA becomes the >> SPAA due to, e.g., movement of the PaC, the PaC performs an IP >> address update procedure defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order >> to update the SPAA with the PaC's new address obtained from the new >> serving network. PANA-Notification-Request (PNR) and PANA- >> Notification-Answer (PNA) messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set are used >> for this purpose. The completion of the IP address update procedure >> will change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. In >> this case, the 'E' MUST NOT be set in the PNR and PNA messages and >> subsequent PANA messages. >> >> [Qin]It seems the IP address udpate procedure is a part of pre-authentication, >> without IP address udpate, Pre-authentication can not be regarded as completion. >> However before the IP address is updated, how to make PANA pre-authentication >> keep service continuity? > > According to RFC 5193, the PaC dynamically or statically configures an > IP address prior to running PANA. So we assume that the new IP > address is configured prior to completion of post-authorization with > CPAA. This is certainly possible if lower-layer security for the > target access network is bootstrapped using the MSK established by > PANA pre-authentication before obtaining the new IP address. [Qin] I am confused here. First, Why the target access network needs to be bootstrapped? I only heard about Bootstapping for the Mobile terminal. Second, Since the pre-authoration SA is identified with the old IP address, When the Mobile moves the the target access network and has not obtained the new IP address, the old IP address will not be available, it means the pre-authorization SA is invalid. the PANA session will be interrupted for a while during the handover. In this situation, the PANA pre-authentication should depend on the layer 2 security before the pre-authorization SA becomes the post-authorization SA. When and How is the layer 2 security established? Before the mobile moves to the target network, whether the layer 2 connection should be maintained? >> >> If there is another CPAA with which the PaC has a pre-authorization >> SA and the PaC wants to keep the pre-authorization SA after the >> change of SPAA, the PaC also performs an IP address update procedure >> [Qin] Do you mean PANA pre-authentication can work for dual radio case or something else? > > PANA pre-authentication can work with single and dual radios (but > effectiveness for dual radio case may not be so large). [Qin] I have to point out one thing here, Dual radios case means the mobile attachs to the old link and the new link simutaneously. Since the PANA pre-authentication support dual radio case, it means not only L3 connection (PANA session) but also L2 connection exist between the peer and the candidate authentication before the mobile moves to the target network, do they? >> >> defined in Section 5.6 of [RFC5191] in order to update the CPAA with >> the PaC's new address. PNR and PNA messages with 'P' (Ping) bit set >> is used for this purpose. In this case, the 'E' (prE-authentication) >> bit MUST be set in the PNR and PNA messages and subsequent PANA >> messages. The IP address update procedure with the CPAA will not >> change the pre-authorization SA to a post-authorization SA. >> >> [Qin] At the first time when the PaC establish SA with one CPAA, the IP address update procedure >> with this CPAA can change the pre-authentication SA to a post-authroziation SA? However,At the second time when the Pac establish SA with another CPAA, why the IP adress update procedure with this CPAA can not change the pre-authorization to a post authorization SA? > > It depends on 'E' bit settings. If the IP address changes but with > 'E' bit set, [Qin]It is a typo here? what you want to said here is "If the IP address changes but without 'E' bit set" >then migration from pre-authentication SA to > post-authentication SA will not occur. On the other hand, the CPAA > should allow migration from pre-authentication SA to > post-authentication SA only from an interface that serves for its > access network to avoid undesired upgrading to post-authentication SA > by a remote node. We can add some text on it. [Qin] It will be better. My understanding is only when the candidate network is a target network, the pre-authorization SA can become post-ahorization SA. Upon one of candidate network becomes the target network, the other candidate network can not be viewed as the target network. also the pre-authoriation SA can not be allowed to become post-authorizaiton SA, it that right? >> >> >> The pre-authorization SA and the corresponding PANA session between >> the PaC and a CPAA is deleted by entering the termination phase of >> the PANA protocol. >> >> Example call flows for PaC-initiated pre-authentication and PAA- >> initiated pre-authentication are shown in Figure 1 and Figure 2, >> respectively. >> [Qin]In the example call flows, which steps are used to generate keying materials? >> which step is used to establish the SA? >> How many roundtrips exchange it takes to perform pre-authentication between PaC and CPAA? how long it takes to complete >> a full pre-authentication? what's the handover performance improvement in constrast with EAP pre-authentication? > > Keying material is established with CPAA in the last PAR/PAN exchange > with 'C' bit set, in the same way as RFC 5191. Message exchanges > between PaC and CPAA for pre-authentication are the same as RFC 5191, > the number of roundtrips depend on the EAP method, [Qin] what i concern here is in Figure 1: PaC-initiated Pre-authentication Call Flow, there are four piece of message changes before Pre-authroziation, after that, there are two piece of message changes to establish keying materials, It seems you indicate one EAP method is used here. So I suggest to add some text to clarify it. Thanks. in the same way as > RFC 5191. The only difference is additional 'E' bit is used in PANA > pre-auth. >I don't understand the last question since PANA > pre-authentication is an EAP pre-authentication. [Qin] Yeah, the pana is just a protocol to carry EAP message. Thank for your correcting me. >> >> 5. Authorization and Accounting Considerations >> >> A pre-authorization and a post-authorization for the PaC may have >> different authorization policies. For example, the pre-authorization >> policy may not allow the PaC to sent or receive packets through an >> Enforcement Point (EP) that is under control of the CPAA, while both >> the pre-authorization and post-authorization policies may allow >> installing credentials to the EP, where the credentials are used for >> establishing a security association for per-packet cryptographic >> filtering. >> >> In an access network where accounting is performed, accounting starts >> when the pre-authorization SA becomes the post-authorization SA by >> default. >> [Qin] What's the main difference between pre-authorization SA and post-authorization SA? >> Only IP address that distinguish these two SA? > > We distinguish the two SA based on the 'E' bit settings. It may be > possible to use IP address solely to distinguish the two SAs, e.g., > PANA message from IP address that do not belong to the realm of the > PAA could be associated with a pre-authorization SA. However, I would > not recommend that scheme because it will be vulnerable to IP address > spoofing. IMO, it's securer to use proteced indication based on 'E' > bit (note that 'E' bit is protected in the last PAR/PAN exchange). [Qin] I want to point out whether or not use IP address to distinguish the two SA, each SA should include IP address. Also I don't think use on bit of 'E' is more secure than use one IP address. > Thanks, > Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From jdiazdevaldes@aguasandinas.cl Tue Dec 23 01:52:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-pana-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A6328C0F7 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -22.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-22.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RuuXBYQUKQu6 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from amour.fr (unknown [88.250.75.246]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E2003A6804 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:52:05 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Witness a miracle happening in your life From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081223095205.9E2003A6804@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:52:05 -0800 (PST) No more worries - choose this way to reach pure enjoyment! 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