From awad-gacan@swkc.com Sat Dec 01 16:58:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyaMG-0007gq-Vi for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:58:45 -0500 Received: from host116-145-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([82.61.145.116] helo=[87.3.225.166]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyaLy-0008HI-UG for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:58:27 -0500 Received: by 10.12.218.92 with SMTP id pNZiqVDNruTvj; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:58:41 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.177.35 with SMTP id lUQxtzLrplcciA.6965637803283; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:58:39 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000d01c83465$528b20d0$a6e10357@io7msb21mr2cxs> From: "awad gacan" To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: uamously Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:58:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c83465$528b20d0$a6e10357@io7msb21mr2cxs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 how low is your confidence level, max it out today http://www.gboound.com/ From AntoinetteannaBullard@heritage.org Sat Dec 01 21:02:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyeA9-0006pi-HP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:02:29 -0500 Received: from 120.143.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com ([65.33.143.120] helo=your4105e587b6.belkin) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyeA9-0006nZ-7R; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:02:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host56479561.heritage.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id alZKNfJI24.579379.B0J.DAJ.0180823868140 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:02:04 +0200 Message-ID: <13b8401c8346e$36f01610$0302a8c0@your4105e587b6> From: "Kelli Crews" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_13B80_01C8346E.36F01610-- From CecileslidMichel@aaaknow.com Sat Dec 01 23:01:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyg1D-0006XB-Rh; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:01:23 -0500 Received: from pool-207-68-121-49.alt.east.verizon.net ([207.68.121.49] helo=crazy.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyg1B-0003vY-RQ; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:01:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host71336298.aaaknow.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id vQfejdXA65.190725.GjS.lix.2521871893720 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:00:49 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Leola Parham" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_CF31_01C83497.FDD88270-- From Gomonodm@centralfloridabrokerscouncil.com Sun Dec 02 03:51:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IykXX-0004vT-CI for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:51:03 -0500 Received: from host157-147-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.8.147.157]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IykXW-0001bR-Ok for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:51:03 -0500 Received: from x by centralfloridabrokerscouncil.com with ASMTP id C45DAF67 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:51:14 +0100 Received: from x ([139.198.19.66]) by centralfloridabrokerscouncil.com with ESMTP id 8530D66DA736 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:51:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c834c0$78ff6db0$9d93084f@x> From: "eduard Gomon" To: Subject: eiifid'e Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:51:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C834C8.DAC3D5B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C834C8.DAC3D5B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good day pana-archive your wife will not go away with our Viagra & cialis http://fatherroom.com eduard Gomon ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C834C8.DAC3D5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good day pana-archive
your wife will not go away with our Viagra &=20 cialis
http://fatherroom.com
eduard Gomon
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C834C8.DAC3D5B0-- From Gignacwuwd@perkoemb.com.cn Sun Dec 02 11:09:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyrOG-0003BB-Ti for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:09:56 -0500 Received: from [122.2.204.249] (helo=122.2.204.249.pldt.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyrOF-00030B-GA for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:09:56 -0500 Received: from none-aci4nsw4kq ([150.104.1.45]:8012 "EHLO none-aci4nsw4kq" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 122.2.204.249.pldt.net with ESMTP id S22WDVXEKINCOLTW (ORCPT ); Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:11:41 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c83584$0c16dfc0$f9cc027a@noneaci4nsw4kq> From: "MICHAELJ Gignac" To: Subject: edregnaw Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:11:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83540.FDF39FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83540.FDF39FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you want her to scream when you shove your mammoth cock in? = http://www.gggsam.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83540.FDF39FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Do you want her to scream when you = shove your=20 mammoth cock in? http://www.gggsam.com/
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83540.FDF39FC0-- From ReneedaphneMccabe@tuaw.com Sun Dec 02 12:14:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IysOf-0000QK-9G; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:14:25 -0500 Received: from [200.49.20.15] (helo=panzheto6f7658.200.49.23.2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IysOd-0002Rw-VD; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:14:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host65233617.tuaw.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iwQ2OtaO37.635751.aoZ.9Xk.0998436123500 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:14:07 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Brittany Coffman" To: Subject: Your life Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:14:07 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_C097_01C83506.C9845CF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071202-0, 02-12-2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_C097_01C83506.C9845CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_C097_01C83506.C9845CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_C097_01C83506.C9845CF0-- From hergaaaouhm@BirminghamZoo.com Mon Dec 03 06:47:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz9lq-0007bP-5X for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:47:30 -0500 Received: from [85.154.196.141] (helo=[85.154.193.28]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz9lk-0008VQ-3W for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:47:30 -0500 Received: from customer-f39230 ([114.158.63.31] helo=customer-f39230) by [85.154.193.28] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1jazXl-000QGG-qJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 03:48:03 -0800 Message-ID: <946B8D00.D46FF0C0@BirminghamZoo.com> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 03:47:27 -0800 From: "rajan hergaa" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: nedielen Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed keep it rock solid everytime and all night long http://oezbahar.com/
From Callie.Kucher@TaxGuru.org Tue Dec 04 15:56:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izeob-0007Ka-58 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:56:25 -0500 Received: from adsl-ull-125-43.50-151.net24.it ([151.50.43.125] helo=adsl-ull-12-24.50-151.net24.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izeoa-0005Sj-Ln for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:56:25 -0500 Received: by 10.63.213.103 with SMTP id MxQdPcpJMHjhB; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:56:33 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.152.218 with SMTP id ltNtSvQRlMzsoM.5281514239090; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:56:31 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000d01c836b8$24002210$0c183297@lb081999deb1d4> From: "Callie Kucher" To: Subject: nesyof Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:56:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C836C0.85C48A10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071204-1, 04/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C836C0.85C48A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wassup pana-archive get ready for xmas with wigara http://mileglass.com Callie Kucher ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C836C0.85C48A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wassup pana-archive
get ready for xmas with wigara
http://mileglass.com
Callie Kucher
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C836C0.85C48A10-- From marsden@fam-serramenti.it Tue Dec 04 22:55:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzlMR-00040T-4y for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:55:47 -0500 Received: from [189.70.157.9] (helo=18970157009.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzlMQ-0008Df-CJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:55:47 -0500 Received: from RUDA ([180.122.156.107]:8501 "EHLO RUDA" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 18970139016.user.veloxzone.com.br with ESMTP id S22GRBRIQLWAVMZN (ORCPT ); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:56:25 -0200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:56:02 -0200 From: "irmala marsden" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: nytteess Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050505000700010201000102" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 --------------050505000700010201000102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With the help of this, your nickname between girls will grow from "Totally flat" to "Monster orgasm". http://www.ooigle.com/ --------------050505000700010201000102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With the help of this, your nickname between girls will grow from
"Totally flat" to "Monster orgasm". http://www.ooigle.com/
--------------050505000700010201000102-- From CasandrastrontiumBrand@mathleague.com Wed Dec 05 13:20:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzyrF-0005FX-Bj; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:20:29 -0500 Received: from 82-33-55-28.cable.ubr05.stav.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.33.55.28] helo=jay.belkin) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzyrE-0008IF-Mc; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:20:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host45998618.mathleague.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id S4sompfj32.335733.aX4.K2T.7330206008483 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:20:44 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Carissa Earl" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_D86F_01C8376B.957EE990-- From EricclownHill@deccanherald.com Wed Dec 05 13:53:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzNS-0002jB-Rf; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:53:46 -0500 Received: from [190.42.236.98] (helo=locutorio) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzNS-0002md-GX; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:53:46 -0500 Received: from juju by deccanherald.com with SMTP id ryYIdYtzyc for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:53:32 +0500 From: "Gary Lopez" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02lM-0006kb-Vo; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:30:41 -0500 Received: from [189.145.20.201] (helo=privada906ecac.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02lM-00086x-KL; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:30:40 -0500 Received: from tuttle by visitannapolis.org with SMTP id C6uyXq5tJJ for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:30:26 +0600 From: "Phil Wong" To: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05he-0005ZS-PQ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:39:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05hc-0005Uj-S2 for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:39:00 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05hc-0000iZ-GP for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:39:00 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F (dhcp-11f3.ietf70.org [130.129.17.243]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:38:58 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3qMC0L16smTSaTaGKbeoTsW+pFA== Message-Id: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+xGdUiRTdTP4XZBucBoLHXid9jUZo9hHFe3/x 4/hS05na7iPSIhSFzIz3uCboXKi+OS9utLiw71j+N/O8LDNlB+ 3FjF+cF//1eY1zwWRswkw== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: "'W. Mark Townsley'" , 'Jari Arkko' Subject: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by the WG via mailing list. If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to DSLF based on this consensus. - IETF PANA WG Chairs _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 22:15:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Cc-0007Ug-Fr; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:15:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Cb-0007UZ-Nr for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:15:05 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Cb-0002pf-BP for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:15:05 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 19:15:04 -0800 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB63F4l5000463; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:15:04 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB63F0qZ000830; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:15:00 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:15:00 -0800 Received: from dhcp-159b.ietf70.org ([10.21.86.216]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:58 -0800 From: Richard Pruss Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061025 Thunderbird/1.5.0.8 Mnenhy/0.7.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alper Yegin , pana@ietf.org, Jari Arkko , Mark Townsley Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 03:15:00.0041 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F7DD390:01C837B6] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1112; t=1196910904; x=1197774904; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ric@cisco.com; z=From:=20Richard=20Pruss=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Pana]=20DSLF=20Requirement=20analysis |Sender:=20; bh=9jKXWwg/TMxjl/kYWKIJRGLZSURtEuwRpwQSzidwWds=; b=tA/DnzDh7g7q1IgMW4NKVXyRVKNWUxJwFtQMEArMVSH76vzlPjNCVAjHOwLC7jBKj7wcH6Q4 TyYLoSwMb+0UFXORQ4d6/Ah7zU4iinN1m740y/hNlqLyVaEbtQShNeT9yYJvkXdDDJqxpZpSE3 iIM738Xzmh2JSOMBaSxydt4D4=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=ric@cisco.com; dkim=pass (sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ric@cisco.com List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication Requirements > as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the > following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the room. In > order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by the WG > via mailing list. > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to DSLF > based on this consensus. > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > I strongly disagree. PANA is not suitable to DSLForum requirements. Other protocols in the IETF and IEEE are far better candidates. Taking this work in the PANA WG is a totally wrong conclusion that somehow PANA is the correct framework for solving a layer 2 authentication problem! Put you hammer back in the drawer, not every problem is a nail you need to hit with it. - Ric _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 22:28:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Ps-0007L6-OB; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:28:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Ps-0007Kz-6q for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:28:48 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Pp-0003kw-TD for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:28:48 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F (dhcp-11f3.ietf70.org [130.129.17.243]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1J07Pi0yQB-00027W; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:28:43 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: , , "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Mark Townsley'" Subject: RE: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:28:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3tjJyATGGkFtmRhi9tIGwFclGFQAAM4Bw Message-Id: <0MKpCa-1J07Pi0yQB-00027W@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/NAuLK48SJCryeU/vmFmC9rDib/bpSfCuLYG2 ewujkMhw+5iGLoHck4QCHbc0RhptFwwfo8x+JpJgWrlZ/1Cl2d 3I/m2PLJOjRPeKdu3dv8g== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Ric, > I strongly disagree. PANA is not suitable to DSLForum requirements. Could you please be specific? > Other protocols in the IETF and IEEE are far better candidates. Taking > this work in the PANA WG is a totally wrong conclusion that somehow PANA > is the correct framework for solving a layer 2 authentication problem! Unfortunately since you are the one calling this a "layer 2 authentication problem", could you please explain what exactly you mean by that and how "DHCP" is solving that "L2 auth" problem, and how DSLF requirements "IPAuth-10 Must be independent of medium type (eg Fixed Ethernet, Legacy ATM, PON, WiFi, WiMax, etc)" plays into that? > Put you hammer back in the drawer, not every problem is a nail you need > to hit with it. That's a misconception I've been hearing from you, but in case you haven't noticed, this WG was created exactly for this problem space, even to the extent that we mentioned it in our RFC 4058 DSL networks are a specific example where PANA has the potential for addressing some of the deployment scenarios. Some DSL deployments do not use PPP [RFC1661] as the access link-layer (IP is carried over ATM and the subscriber device is either statically or DHCP- configured). The operators of these networks are left either using an application-layer web-based login (captive portal) scheme for subscriber authentication, or providing a best-effort service only as they cannot perform subscriber authentication required for the differentiated services. The captive portal scheme is a non-standard solution that has various limitations and security flaws. Alper _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From PearlcoattailTuttle@hotelpresident.cz Wed Dec 05 23:58:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08os-00028h-1U; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:58:42 -0500 Received: from 125-26-53-93.adsl.totbb.net ([125.26.53.93] helo=siri) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08or-0005l3-E4; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:58:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host48189454.hotelpresident.cz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id pjGRjcBW70.419378.Vga.jXy.9177966378897 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: <38beb01c837c4$b1e12860$0601a8c0@siri> From: "Tanya Hoskins" To: Subject: Hi Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:58:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_38BE7_01C837C4.B1E12860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_38BE7_01C837C4.B1E12860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_38BE7_01C837C4.B1E12860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_38BE7_01C837C4.B1E12860-- From LolarichterBoswell@tuaw.com Thu Dec 06 00:58:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09l7-0001qn-9V; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:58:53 -0500 Received: from 84.123.68.186.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.123.68.186] helo=nombre78ff4ced) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09l6-00012i-UV; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:58:53 -0500 Received: from hague by tuaw.com with SMTP id yzNI8rB7le for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:58:43 -0100 From: "Fannie Huggins" To: Subject: Join your new casino paradise Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071205-2, 05/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de After thatit's only fun and winning. Come find out. Travel no further than your screen and get your free $999 Best offer in gambling history . http://eurocasinoal.com/ From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 01:38:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ANd-0006oK-1U; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:38:41 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ANb-0006iL-VM for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:38:39 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ANW-0005WV-Hs for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:38:39 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-aff27bb000001e2e-27-475798e6e50d Received: from steelhead.localdomain (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D7F494DC008; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J0ANM-0002gv-1f; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:38:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:38:23 -0500 To: Alper Yegin Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis Message-ID: <20071206063823.GC6782@steelhead.localdomain> References: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: "'W. Mark Townsley'" , 'Jari Arkko' , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org I support sending the material to the DSLF. Since the PANA WG has been working for more than 6 years on the specific problem space where the DSLF is seeking a solution, and there is no other IETF WG that has been working on the problem space, I don't see any problem with sending technical input from the PANA WG to the DSLF on this matter. I would rather think it's very strange and unfair if this attempt were to be blocked. Yoshihiro Ohba On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 03:38:50AM +0200, Alper Yegin wrote: > > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication Requirements > as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the > following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the room. In > order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by the WG > via mailing list. > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to DSLF > based on this consensus. > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From RosannemuskellungeJacob@apache.org Thu Dec 06 05:22:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0DsM-0002b2-Tx; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:22:38 -0500 Received: from [80.31.254.182] (helo=javier) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0DsM-0004N3-GQ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:22:38 -0500 Received: from venial by apache.org with SMTP id osu7ixz5am for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:22:37 -0100 From: "Berta Blackman" To: Subject: Relax and have fun with poker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Get $999 you download our casino. Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. How about the best service around? Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. http://eurocasinoam.com/ From AngelowhySharp@fordfound.org Thu Dec 06 09:10:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0HQV-0002Ah-KB; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:10:07 -0500 Received: from [190.7.158.126] (helo=personal) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0HQV-0006pe-3h; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:10:07 -0500 Received: from supreme by fordfound.org with SMTP id A8fZGwMiLT for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:13:36 +0500 From: "Doug Keller" To: Subject: If you're in the US, join your new casino paradise. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de We pay you to play. Play your favorite games and get $999 welcome bonus. Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. Our casino is for you and everyone else who likes to win! http://eurocasinoal.com/ From RamiroserfPittman@inphotos.org Thu Dec 06 10:10:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0IN7-0002XW-T2; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:10:41 -0500 Received: from adsl196-5-218-217-196.adsl196-15.iam.net.ma ([196.217.218.5] helo=fi894db826e6e7) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0IN7-0003Td-3K; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:10:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host54526132.inphotos.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id RgfL9PuF18.837414.WtB.nwK.2036032924643 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:10:08 -0100 Message-ID: <5f94e01c8381a$251509a0$0302a8c0@fi894db826e6e7> From: "Doyle Brady" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_5F94A_01C8381A.251509A0-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 11:03:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JCC-0007Qw-HA; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:03:28 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JCB-0007Cj-EA for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:03:27 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JC7-0001GX-13 for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:03:27 -0500 Received: from mailee.research.telcordia.com (mailee [192.4.16.29]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lB6G3LxE010779; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.96.59.182] (vpntnlB182 [128.96.59.182]) by mailee.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14049; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:03:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47581D48.9090804@research.telcordia.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:03:20 -0500 From: Subir Das User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ric@cisco.comproblem Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: Mark Townsley , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org It would be nice if someone can explain what's wrong with the conclusion. Also if it is a layer-2 authentication problem, I do not know whether it fits in IETF. On the other hand, DSLF requirements do not not seem to indicate that it is a layer-2 auth problem. regards, -Subir Richard Pruss wrote: >> >> In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication >> Requirements >> as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the >> following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >> >> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >> >> We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the >> room. In >> order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by >> the WG >> via mailing list. >> >> If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by >> December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >> If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to >> DSLF >> based on this consensus. >> - IETF PANA WG Chairs > I strongly disagree. PANA is not suitable to DSLForum requirements. > Other protocols in the IETF and IEEE are far better candidates. > Taking this work in the PANA WG is a totally wrong conclusion that > somehow PANA is the correct framework for solving a layer 2 > authentication problem! > > Put you hammer back in the drawer, not every problem is a nail you > need to hit with it. > > - Ric > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 11:40:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Jm3-0007wD-4T; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:40:31 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Jm1-0007vw-Rd for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:40:29 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Jm1-0002g7-Bl for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:40:29 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2007 08:40:29 -0800 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB6GeSZE026578; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:40:28 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB6GeNnj023523; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:40:28 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:40:19 -0800 Received: from dhcp-11d2.ietf70.org ([10.21.94.144]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:40:18 -0800 Message-ID: <475825F1.7010500@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:40:17 -0800 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subir Das Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> <47581D48.9090804@research.telcordia.com> In-Reply-To: <47581D48.9090804@research.telcordia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 16:40:18.0999 (UTC) FILETIME=[AFD5B470:01C83826] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2612; t=1196959228; x=1197823228; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Pana]=20DSLF=20Requirement=20analysis |Sender:=20; bh=WZScHr+e9FVjeO3ZfQRwmHwGNqxTN40jjTb3WUlO8ZA=; b=GIa7Pje7eYCdgKYoDxtBZe2SSSECMggq4+dOGVrjVLK6QQiobR8rgjy0ozBAP6qVOiQN7Hq4 COnqHgWxPRYsXS41d+U4HN6iZk3IqTr6mq12ww2jF9D0MQGXmdK/aeG5; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Cc: pana@ietf.org, Jari Arkko , ric@cisco.comproblem X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Subir Das wrote: > It would be nice if someone can explain what's wrong with the conclusion. > Also if it is a layer-2 authentication problem, I do not know whether it > fits in IETF. If the DSLF wants an 802 based solution, this is certainly an IEEE problem. But DHCP would of course be IETF. When we speak about layers in the conventional sense, we think of something that operates in a steady state on top of one another in a vertical stack. Authentication occurs during a setup phase, thus the point in time in which that operation occurs relative to other items becomes significant, bringing another dimension to the problem. If you can think of steady-state layers vertically, think of the authentication phase as horizontally, where time is as important as layer. > On the other hand, DSLF requirements do not not seem to > indicate that it is a layer-2 auth problem. I think that this is captured as part of the "TR-101 operational model" - I understand that is a lot to try and digest. But I think what Ric has been saying is important is that the point in time that IP packets can flow on the network from a given subscriber is significant to the security model in DSL. - Mark > > regards, > -Subir > > Richard Pruss wrote: >>> >>> In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication >>> Requirements >>> as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the >>> following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >>> >>> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >>> >>> We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the >>> room. In >>> order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by >>> the WG >>> via mailing list. >>> >>> If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by >>> December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >>> If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to >>> DSLF >>> based on this consensus. >>> - IETF PANA WG Chairs >> I strongly disagree. PANA is not suitable to DSLForum requirements. >> Other protocols in the IETF and IEEE are far better candidates. >> Taking this work in the PANA WG is a totally wrong conclusion that >> somehow PANA is the correct framework for solving a layer 2 >> authentication problem! >> >> Put you hammer back in the drawer, not every problem is a nail you >> need to hit with it. >> >> - Ric >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 12:07:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KCA-0006re-Td; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:07:30 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KCA-0006qE-2O for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:07:30 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KC9-0004kO-HN for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:07:29 -0500 Received: from mailee.research.telcordia.com (mailee [192.4.16.29]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lB6H7RuO007912; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:07:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.96.59.182] (vpntnlB182 [128.96.59.182]) by mailee.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00952; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:07:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47582C4F.3090101@research.telcordia.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:07:27 -0500 From: Subir Das User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Townsley Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <47576932.8070700@cisco.com> <47581D48.9090804@research.telcordia.com> <475825F1.7010500@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <475825F1.7010500@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Cc: ric@cisco.comproblem, Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Mark Townsley wrote: > Subir Das wrote: >> It would be nice if someone can explain what's wrong with the >> conclusion. >> Also if it is a layer-2 authentication problem, I do not know whether it >> fits in IETF. > If the DSLF wants an 802 based solution, this is certainly an IEEE > problem. But DHCP would of course be IETF. Yes that's true. But can we call DHCP a layer-2 auth? I understand that we may not need to use the strict layering model here, but typically L2-auth does not allow the link access before authentication. For DHCP case, it's different.since DHCP DISCOVER has a source address 0.0.0.0 and one can argue that the node is capable of sending IP packets. > > When we speak about layers in the conventional sense, we think of > something that operates in a steady state on top of one another in a > vertical stack. Authentication occurs during a setup phase, thus the > point in time in which that operation occurs relative to other items > becomes significant, bringing another dimension to the problem. If you > can think of steady-state layers vertically, think of the > authentication phase as horizontally, where time is as important as > layer. > >> On the other hand, DSLF requirements do not not seem to >> indicate that it is a layer-2 auth problem. > I think that this is captured as part of the "TR-101 operational > model" - I understand that is a lot to try and digest. But I think > what Ric has been saying is important is that the point in time that > IP packets can flow on the network from a given subscriber is > significant to the security model in DSL. Yes, the security model is an important issue. Whether DSLF chooses to use DHCP or some other IETF protocols, IMO, this is a new architecture model that traditional L2 -auth model provides today. Of course, it has to be secured whatever protocol we recommend. regards, -Subir > > - Mark >> >> regards, >> -Subir >> >> Richard Pruss wrote: >>>> >>>> In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication >>>> Requirements >>>> as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed >>>> the >>>> following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >>>> >>>> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >>>> >>>> We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the >>>> room. In >>>> order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by >>>> the WG >>>> via mailing list. >>>> >>>> If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by >>>> December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >>>> If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter >>>> to DSLF >>>> based on this consensus. >>>> - IETF PANA WG Chairs >>> I strongly disagree. PANA is not suitable to DSLForum requirements. >>> Other protocols in the IETF and IEEE are far better candidates. >>> Taking this work in the PANA WG is a totally wrong conclusion that >>> somehow PANA is the correct framework for solving a layer 2 >>> authentication problem! >>> >>> Put you hammer back in the drawer, not every problem is a nail you >>> need to hit with it. >>> >>> - Ric >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pana mailing list >>> Pana@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 12:11:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KFl-0001fQ-Lw; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:11:13 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KFk-0001Za-6E for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:11:12 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KFj-00076k-9I for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:11:12 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.23,261,1194217200"; d="scan'208";a="210708" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2007 18:10:57 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB6HAvYH015039; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:10:57 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB6H35EX026879; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:10:52 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:10:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:10:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoA= From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 17:10:34.0701 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA13D7D0:01C8382A] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5092; t=1196961057; x=1197825057; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20analysis |Sender:=20; bh=LA4+fRO/qGgPGJdYZjcVQz6MiNQPV0QIxYiktuh2y90=; b=njh1KYJNg0aUb5e41xBcUHL6ytERasem1EYMV5oDI/tDAkkpwCGxrOm0H5 ZwgiQVOOAVbVCQpYq1WpHMQUBDoImVDmKGpgQDeEiwSbvpXnreoZfa8VStIA havzkRLGLu; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko Subject: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi Alper, Pana WG, on looking through the assessment of PANA against the DSLF requirements, which I have participated in laying down at the DSLF, I have to express a good number of issues wrt to the conclusions/justifications presented. I really cannot agree with statements put forward in the conclusion statement. The main issues specifically are: IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC address, Option82 circuit-id.=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already available on the IP messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of Option 82 with DHCP.=20 ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately* from PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be implemented that allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached DHCP option info (more on this later). This is either effectively double authentication with double the Radius messaging load, or a significant complication for BRASes. It is contrary to the spirit of the requirement which says that at (single) authentication additional parameters like client MAC address and/or Option 82 must be available.=20 IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model =09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there, IETF does not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model, revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed primarily of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol, coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this mix has a fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very pragmatic issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this issue, and it doesn't require specific expertise to see this. IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE)=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require changes to the operating system. Open source implementation available. ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA requires that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address lease for authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is granted. The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address lease is presented to the OS for use by applications other than PANA, and then shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to applications may occur as sockets are reset, applications which received (or did not receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not receive or be able to handle this config change without some timeouts, etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to move from one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom line, the IP address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of potential for race conditions that could affect applications on the OS. One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first DHCP lease information to any application other than EAP, but of course this likely requires OS changes. IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be configured prior to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after authentication.=20 ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them does not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security mechanisms used in the access network, and requires that the BRAS and client OS be resilient to on-the-fly IP address changes. Also possibly the DSLAM and L2 aggregation switches. Regards, Woj. > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > From: Alper Yegin > To: > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko'=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication=20 > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >=20 > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >=20 > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the=20 > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running=20 > this by the WG via mailing list. >=20 > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >=20 > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to=20 > DSLF based on this consensus. >=20 > - IETF PANA WG Chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 12:25:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KTI-0008OV-GY; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:25:12 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KTH-0008OQ-Ks for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:25:11 -0500 Received: from [70.79.96.174] (helo=zeugmasystems.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0KTG-0008E3-Ql for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:25:11 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoAAALbCQA== References: From: "Curtis Sherbo" To: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" , "Alper Yegin" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org As a member of the DSL Forum, I second this analysis. I think it is fine to present a proposal in a liaison, but I agree that the requirements below are not met as presented in the Analysis. Regards, Curtis Sherbo=20 -----Original Message----- From: Wojciech Dec (wdec) [mailto:wdec@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:11 AM To: Alper Yegin; pana@ietf.org Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko Subject: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Hi Alper, Pana WG, on looking through the assessment of PANA against the DSLF requirements, which I have participated in laying down at the DSLF, I have to express a good number of issues wrt to the conclusions/justifications presented. I really cannot agree with statements put forward in the conclusion statement. The main issues specifically are: IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC address, Option82 circuit-id.=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already available on the IP messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of Option 82 with DHCP.=20 ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately* from PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be implemented that allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached DHCP option info (more on this later). This is either effectively double authentication with double the Radius messaging load, or a significant complication for BRASes. It is contrary to the spirit of the requirement which says that at (single) authentication additional parameters like client MAC address and/or Option 82 must be available.=20 IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model =09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there, IETF does not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model, revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed primarily of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol, coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this mix has a fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very pragmatic issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this issue, and it doesn't require specific expertise to see this. IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE)=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require changes to the operating system. Open source implementation available. ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA requires that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address lease for authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is granted. The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address lease is presented to the OS for use by applications other than PANA, and then shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to applications may occur as sockets are reset, applications which received (or did not receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not receive or be able to handle this config change without some timeouts, etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to move from one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom line, the IP address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of potential for race conditions that could affect applications on the OS. One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first DHCP lease information to any application other than EAP, but of course this likely requires OS changes. IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned=09 PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be configured prior to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after authentication.=20 ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them does not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security mechanisms used in the access network, and requires that the BRAS and client OS be resilient to on-the-fly IP address changes. Also possibly the DSLAM and L2 aggregation switches. Regards, Woj. > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > From: Alper Yegin > To: > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko'=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication=20 > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >=20 > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >=20 > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the=20 > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running=20 > this by the WG via mailing list. >=20 > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >=20 > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to=20 > DSLF based on this consensus. >=20 > - IETF PANA WG Chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From PatriciaestellaMayfield@softwaretipsandtricks.com Thu Dec 06 14:42:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Mbk-0005pn-Pc; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from 66-215-255-52.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com ([66.215.255.52] helo=theq689pf6a3u6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Mbk-0001Q4-Gm; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from costume by softwaretipsandtricks.com with SMTP id oyXHJVCKGi for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:45:05 +0800 From: "Ruth Cowan" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OIz-0003Mi-6J; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:30:49 -0500 Received: from [190.50.163.212] (helo=terminal7) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OIy-0001KZ-Nv; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:30:49 -0500 Received: from clockwise by ottawaherald.com with SMTP id r79QjXLwfz for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:28:36 +0300 From: "Gina Quinones" To: Subject: $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de We have it all! $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! Your own privater Vegas! Play your favorite games and get $999 welcome bonus. http://eurocasinoam.com/ From pana-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 16:49:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Ob2-0000ZU-6C; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:49:28 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Ob1-0000ZO-Pv for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:49:27 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Ob0-00039I-UE for pana@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:49:27 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F ([207.236.117.226]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:49:25 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:49:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoAAB/qrYA== Message-Id: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+P6Gy8CznD/RZdnWJ5xAuCPAgHRitp4Qo8sP6 xOZFjmYJmy8sjlB27DkiT2O5JyilEIPZETnjGyMj8ObhhoYEPi Cs2ZvYqdDJlRL5vOeaEAw== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 225414c974e0d6437992164e91287a51 Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' Subject: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Wojciech, > IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any > additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC address, Option82 > circuit-id. > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already available on the IP > messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of Option 82 with > DHCP. > ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it > assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately* from > PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be implemented that > allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached DHCP option info > (more on this later). This is either effectively double authentication > with double the Radius messaging load, or a significant complication for > BRASes. It is contrary to the spirit of the requirement which says that > at (single) authentication additional parameters like client MAC address > and/or Option 82 must be available. There does not have to be two RADIUS calls. If the pre-PANA address is configured via DHCP (as opposed to being a link-local address), then the Option 82 is made available to the authenticator but that does not trigger RADIUS call. Instead, RADIUS call is triggered when the PANA starts. So, the RADIUS call triggered by PANA can convey both the circuit ID and also carry out the EAP authentication. If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP message's Option 82 and verified. > IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model > PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there, IETF does not > have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. > ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model, > revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed primarily > of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol, > coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this mix has a > fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very pragmatic > issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this issue, and it > doesn't require specific expertise to see this. You are saying a new protocol is a no-no. I don't see that requirement anywhere. > IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require changes to the > operating system. Open source implementation available. > ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA requires > that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address lease for > authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is > granted. As we said, this is not a MUST. There are other options. But to give you the full list: 1. PaC configures a link-local address, or 2. PaC configures a short-lease DHCP address 2.a. That address is same as what the PaC will use after successful authentication, or 2.b. PaC will be configured a new IP address after successful authentication. > The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change > without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address lease > is presented to the OS for use by applications other than PANA, and then > shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to applications may > occur as sockets are reset, applications which received (or did not > receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not > receive or be able to handle this config change without some timeouts, > etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to move from > one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom line, the IP > address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of > potential for race conditions that could affect applications on the OS. > One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first DHCP lease > information to any application other than EAP, but of course this likely > requires OS changes. 1 and 2a have no problem. 2b requires the OS to hide the interface from applications. I worked on Solaris TCP/IP development. I know Solaris has a way to mark an interface hidden -- so that it does not appear to the applications that does not know it exists. I can see if other OSes have similar features. OSes which has this capability can also use 2b without impacting applications. > > IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of > subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be configured prior > to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP > address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after > authentication. > ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses > (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them does > not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security mechanisms > used in the access network, Can you point to the text that we are breaking? And also explain how DHCPv6 that runs with link-local IPv6 address is not a problem (by now I asked this question at least 3 times here and there -- no answer....) > and requires that the BRAS and client OS be > resilient to on-the-fly IP address changes. Already explained above. > Also possibly the DSLAM and > L2 aggregation switches. Thanks. Alper > > Regards, > Woj. > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > > From: Alper Yegin > > To: > > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko' > > > > > > > > > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication > > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we > > > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the > > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running > > this by the WG via mailing list. > > > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > > > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to > > DSLF based on this consensus. > > > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From ShawnadelusiveBenitez@onlineconversion.com Thu Dec 06 18:43:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QNi-0005yp-Ao; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:43:50 -0500 Received: from [200.114.31.204] (helo=desktop.intercable.net.co) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QNh-0003lX-V9; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:43:50 -0500 Received: from commendatory by onlineconversion.com with SMTP id ayxODcxPeP for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:43:32 +0500 From: "Nettie Gleason" To: Subject: it's only fun and winning. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. Come find out. Play your favorite games and get $999 welcome bonus. We're serious about fun. http://eurocasinoak.com/ From nancy@greatproductscheap.com Thu Dec 06 21:17:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Smn-0003Ur-S2; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:17:53 -0500 Received: from c-76-110-58-71.hsd1.fl.comcast.net ([76.110.58.71] helo=RADIANCE.hsd1.fl.comcast.net.) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Sml-00071H-PQ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:17:53 -0500 Received: from [76.110.58.71] by smtp.secureserver.net; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:21:16 -0800 Message-ID: <01c83834$ca16b600$473a6e4c@nancy> From: "Anjelica Kay" To: Subject: overscheduled Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:21:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.5 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Hi I'm 23 years old I read your profile online and I was intrested in getting to know you better Reply to me and tell me about yourself if you want to chat I will send a pic and some of my info right away email me at Banana@EngineRide.info , that will be sent to me directly Thank you From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 04:06:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZAU-0000HS-TF; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:06:46 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZAU-0000HH-5I for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:06:46 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZAT-0000RZ-Fz for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:06:45 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-aef25bb000001e2e-37-47590d235e27 Received: from steelhead.localdomain (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 62BFF4DC004; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 02:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J0ZAS-0004H5-3c; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:06:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 04:06:44 -0500 To: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Message-ID: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 06:10:30PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: (snip) > > IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require changes to the > operating system. Open source implementation available. > ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA requires > that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address lease for > authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is > granted. The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change > without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address lease > is presented to the OS for use by applications other than PANA, and then > shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to applications may > occur as sockets are reset, applications which received (or did not > receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not > receive or be able to handle this config change without some timeouts, > etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to move from > one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom line, the IP > address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of > potential for race conditions that could affect applications on the OS. > One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first DHCP lease > information to any application other than EAP, but of course this likely > requires OS changes. I don't understand why this is an issue. IP address change after launching applications can happen in many situations (e.g., change from link-local address to global address, change from CoA to HoA upon successful Mobile IP registration, change from using a physical interface address to tunnel inner address upon IPsec tunnel establishment for VPN, etc). IP address change is something OS and applications have to deal with, regardless of whether PANA is used or not, and I think many OSes and applications already deal with it. Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From JeroldproblemHolden@foxnews.com Fri Dec 07 06:38:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bXL-00083Z-Tt; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:38:31 -0500 Received: from host10-103-static.106-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([82.106.103.10] helo=taife8e1f53ebf) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bXL-0006cT-EI; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:38:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host42986801.foxnews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iPObiQw706.402904.EXu.AsE.9965030077940 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:36:36 -0100 Message-ID: <1c36301c838c5$756f4b80$0401a8c0@taife8e1f53ebf> From: "Wilton Clemons" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:36:36 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1C35F_01C838C5.756F4B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1C35F_01C838C5.756F4B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_1C35F_01C838C5.756F4B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_1C35F_01C838C5.756F4B80-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 07:04:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bwh-0005YD-OI; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:04:43 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bwg-0005Od-6V for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:04:42 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bwe-0007pA-Mu for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:04:42 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.23,266,1194217200"; d="scan'208";a="280591" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Dec 2007 13:04:38 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB7C4cBS020785; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:04:38 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB7C4G76014088; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:04:33 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:04:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:03:53 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoAAB/qrYAAHX63w References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2007 12:04:29.0869 (UTC) FILETIME=[52329DD0:01C838C9] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=11758; t=1197029078; x=1197893078; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20analysis |Sender:=20; bh=Hc7b7Cm6kHuRYR/gRTWu8hRWHbUwDzRjSv49kU37fTk=; b=A5CI2fPouqUM68IsMTNiv27UDIbPat7i1s64IXvu7f2znrN2VmWNfYav5J xhz5Syt/iBmMveQMGHX3X5BVznBZ6Glq4Kobb0vHE+urpO3JYKPMaNenHQu9 gr81cE1iIC; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f8ee348dcc4be4a59bc395f7cd6343ad Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko Subject: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Alper,=20 your reply does not contain any new items that change my disagreement wrt to the PANA assessment. The issue appears to be in the effort to ignore, or severely short change, the additional operational costs that PANA is bound to introduce, along with the impact to existing devices due to the extra complexity.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org]=20 > Sent: 06 December 2007 13:49 > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec); pana@ietf.org > Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); 'Jari Arkko' > Subject: RE: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > Wojciech, >=20 > > IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any > > additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC=20 > address, Option82=20 > > circuit-id. > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already=20 > available on the IP > > messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of=20 > Option 82 with=20 > > DHCP. > > ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it=20 > > assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately*=20 > > from PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be=20 > > implemented that allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached=20 > > DHCP option info (more on this later). This is either effectively=20 > > double authentication with double the Radius messaging load, or a=20 > > significant complication for BRASes. It is contrary to the=20 > spirit of=20 > > the requirement which says that at (single) authentication=20 > additional=20 > > parameters like client MAC address and/or Option 82 must be=20 > available. >=20 > There does not have to be two RADIUS calls. >=20 > If the pre-PANA address is configured via DHCP (as opposed to=20 > being a link-local address), then the Option 82 is made=20 > available to the authenticator but that does not trigger=20 > RADIUS call. Instead, RADIUS call is triggered when the PANA=20 > starts. So, the RADIUS call triggered by PANA can convey both=20 > the circuit ID and also carry out the EAP authentication. So this avoidance of double authentication relies on what I refer to above as a dedicated mechanism that retrieves cached circuit-id info.=20 It seems that this mechanism is likely to be more complex, and more operationally impacting then I originally thought due to the coupling between DHCP and PANA. The extra complexity stems from the need to keep (on the BRAS) track of at least; pre-PANA hosts that have not authenticated; pre-PANA hosts that have authenticated; post-PANA hosts that have authenticated; pre-PANA addressing assignments; post-PANA addressing assignment. This swapping of each host from one state to the other is enough to radically impact the session bring-up rate of any BRAS. This is a comment that has been expressed by all BRAS vendors, and somehow keeps getting ignored.=20 Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the added overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what impacts operations adversely. Based on my work with operational departments I can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many.=20 I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this requirement and my ISSUE with the assessment still stands. >=20 > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again=20 > PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver=20 > the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not=20 > triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP=20 > message's Option 82 and verified. Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to the network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network device, not the other way round. In any case, the local link address option is a non starter for IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. >=20 > =20 > > IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there,=20 > IETF does=20 > > not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. > > ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model,=20 > > revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed=20 > primarily=20 > > of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol,=20 > > coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this=20 > mix has a=20 > > fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very=20 > > pragmatic issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this=20 > > issue, and it doesn't require specific expertise to see this. >=20 > You are saying a new protocol is a no-no. I don't see that=20 > requirement anywhere. Perhaps if the equipment vendors were to pay operators to deploy, maintain and troubleshoot (i.e. effectively out source operations) then adding new protocols becomes a non issue. Any other arrangement is operationally impacting, which comes down to increased costs for the operator. The desire to remove PPP (an extra protocol) is a reverse example of this. I see no way that adding new protocol (like PANA) can claim not to increase it. Again, PANA does not match this requirement. >=20 >=20 > > IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require=20 > changes to the > > operating system. Open source implementation available. > > ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA=20 > requires=20 > > that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address=20 > lease for=20 > > authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is=20 > > granted. >=20 > As we said, this is not a MUST. There are other options. But=20 > to give you the full list: >=20 > 1. PaC configures a link-local address, or 2. PaC configures=20 > a short-lease DHCP address > 2.a. That address is same as what the PaC will use=20 > after successful=20 > authentication, or > 2.b. PaC will be configured a new IP address after successful > authentication. As stated earlier; local link addressing is a non starter (it doesn't even convey circuit-id, besides being something of a esoteric substance for IPv4). Then, 2a does not meet the criteria of assigning a useful IP address after authentication. And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to the short DHCP leases are OS impacting. Finally, this link actually reveals the truth about the unsuitability of DHCP-short leases on at least one popular OS platform (other implementations deriving from RFC 1541 are likely to have similar issues): http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158016 >=20 > > The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change=20 > > without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address=20 > > lease is presented to the OS for use by applications other=20 > than PANA,=20 > > and then shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to=20 > > applications may occur as sockets are reset, applications which=20 > > received (or did not > > receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not=20 > > receive or be able to handle this config change without=20 > some timeouts,=20 > > etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to=20 > move from=20 > > one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom=20 > line, the=20 > > IP address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of=20 > > potential for race conditions that could affect=20 > applications on the OS. > > One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first=20 > DHCP lease=20 > > information to any application other than EAP, but of course this=20 > > likely requires OS changes. >=20 > 1 and 2a have no problem. That's an assertion to which you're entitled, but based on the previously presented arguments I disagree. OSes are impacted, 1 is a no-go, and 2 introduces unnecessary complexity on the BRAS. >=20 > 2b requires the OS to hide the interface from applications. I=20 > worked on Solaris TCP/IP development. I know Solaris has a=20 > way to mark an interface hidden -- so that it does not appear=20 > to the applications that does not know it exists. I can see=20 > if other OSes have similar features. OSes which has this=20 > capability can also use 2b without impacting applications. Not everyone runs Solaris... Your statement contradicts the answer the PANA WG gave to this requirement, yet you don't admit so. Allow me to quote "Yes Implementation does not require changes to the operating system. Open source implementation available.". The open source topic is a red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to it, and the policy of the implementers for using open source... >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of > > subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be=20 > configured prior > > to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP=20 > > address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after=20 > > authentication. > > ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses=20 > > (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them=20 > > does not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security=20 > > mechanisms used in the access network, >=20 > Can you point to the text that we are breaking? Please check the IETF70 SAVI BOF material. In the pre-PANA DHCP short-lease case IP traffic will flow between the client and the BRAS before authentication. This is enough to have broken a common L2 security mechanism, or require changes on the DSLAMs/Access-Nodes.=20 Again, this requirement is not fulfilled by PANA without resorting to mechanisms that are un-realistic (and most likely broken) -Woj. >=20 > And also explain how DHCPv6 that runs with link-local IPv6=20 > address is not a problem (by now I asked this question at=20 > least 3 times here and there -- no > answer....) >=20 > > and requires that the BRAS and client OS be resilient to=20 > on-the-fly IP=20 > > address changes. >=20 > Already explained above. >=20 > > Also possibly the DSLAM and > > L2 aggregation switches. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > Alper >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > Regards, > > Woj. > >=20 > >=20 > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > > > From: Alper Yegin > > > To: > > > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication=20 > > > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May=20 > 25, 2007,=20 > > > we > >=20 > > > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > > > > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > > > > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members=20 > present in the=20 > > > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we=20 > are running=20 > > > this by the WG via mailing list. > > > > > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the=20 > mailing list=20 > > > by > >=20 > > > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > > > > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a=20 > liaison letter to=20 > > > DSLF based on this consensus. > > > > > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > > > > > > >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From JuanitanewspaperHeard@doshdosh.com Fri Dec 07 08:23:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0dBI-000576-MK; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:23:52 -0500 Received: from [189.160.91.231] (helo=marlene.domain.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0dBI-00039i-4n; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:23:52 -0500 Received: from aquatic by doshdosh.com with SMTP id FPWYXmXrOL for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:21:03 +0600 From: "Anita Gagnon" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0dYG-00047C-Ox; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:47:36 -0500 Received: from host217-43-59-152.range217-43.btcentralplus.com ([217.43.59.152] helo=your8f70b4083a.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0dYF-00042J-Tl; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:47:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host61909887.appleinsider.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id uk0U1FOu38.728852.xp3.0m2.2145824071859 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:47:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1f17601c838d7$b5d55400$4001a8c0@YOUR8F70B4083A> From: "Lynn Worley" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_1F172_01C838D7.B5D55400-- From LorenexiTemple@download3000.com Fri Dec 07 11:17:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ftd-0006It-Pr; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:17:49 -0500 Received: from cpc3-sout2-0-0-cust119.sotn.cable.ntl.com ([82.19.116.120] helo=computername) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ftd-0005sW-6F; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:17:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host23311321.download3000.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id CVGsno4X34.890549.6Od.nNo.7420772143648 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:59:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3ec7f01c838ea$3edb47c0$78741352@computername> From: "Mandy Houser" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:59:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3EC7B_01C838EA.3EDB47C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3EC7B_01C838EA.3EDB47C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_3EC7B_01C838EA.3EDB47C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_3EC7B_01C838EA.3EDB47C0-- From LeanneparochialAbernathy@bibliomania.com Fri Dec 07 13:07:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0hc1-0003kz-Ei; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:07:45 -0500 Received: from [200.6.191.29] (helo=oper100) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0hc0-00066f-Vs; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:07:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host77384556.bibliomania.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id BIFn9unX27.930731.x2A.sMl.8964114922354 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:07:36 +0500 Message-ID: <032401c838fc$1291fad0$0c05a8c0@oper100> From: "Gale Ledford" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_0320_01C838FC.1291FAD0-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 13:33:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i0o-0006Ru-NW; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:33:22 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i0n-0006PW-Dm for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:33:21 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i0l-0008HE-SX for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:33:21 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F (dhcp-11f3.ietf70.org [130.129.17.243]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1J0i0e1Jlm-0006OF; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:33:18 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:33:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoAAB/qrYAAHX63wACROlKA= Message-Id: <0MKp8S-1J0i0e1Jlm-0006OF@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19Kbs0YUMte4YFXIypamzRI4uHgjanDXRzk1+c Fve8e574wEaXVNb9Aa+k4DTKuOaWZdQ9CckV+megVaRI6BO0iy GQiTPCtC1bNB+YunBdQoQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e654cfa5e44bd623be3eb2c720858b05 Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' Subject: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Wojciech, I see some times your points are digressing from what the requirements are talking about. We shall discuss other things separately in order to keep the focus on the requirements. I'm not saying they are not important; I'm saying those discussions outside the scope of the requirements do not impact the response IETF PANA WG is preparing in response to requirements. DSLF is free to expand the requirements and request PANA WG to work on it. In fact I'm hearing that members are taking additional requirements to next week's DSLF meeting. > > > IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any > > > additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC > > address, Option82 > > > circuit-id. > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already > > available on the IP > > > messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of > > Option 82 with > > > DHCP. > > > ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it > > > assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately* > > > from PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be > > > implemented that allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached > > > DHCP option info (more on this later). This is either effectively > > > double authentication with double the Radius messaging load, or a > > > significant complication for BRASes. It is contrary to the > > spirit of > > > the requirement which says that at (single) authentication > > additional > > > parameters like client MAC address and/or Option 82 must be > > available. > > > > There does not have to be two RADIUS calls. > > > > If the pre-PANA address is configured via DHCP (as opposed to > > being a link-local address), then the Option 82 is made > > available to the authenticator but that does not trigger > > RADIUS call. Instead, RADIUS call is triggered when the PANA > > starts. So, the RADIUS call triggered by PANA can convey both > > the circuit ID and also carry out the EAP authentication. > > So this avoidance of double authentication relies on what I refer to > above as a dedicated mechanism that retrieves cached circuit-id info. BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns via RADIUS. What dedicated mechanism are you referring to? > It seems that this mechanism is likely to be more complex, and more > operationally impacting then I originally thought due to the coupling > between DHCP and PANA. The extra complexity stems from the need to keep > (on the BRAS) track of at least; pre-PANA hosts that have not > authenticated; pre-PANA hosts that have authenticated; post-PANA hosts > that have authenticated; pre-PANA addressing assignments; post-PANA > addressing assignment. This swapping of each host from one state to the > other is enough to radically impact the session bring-up rate of any > BRAS. This is a comment that has been expressed by all BRAS vendors, and > somehow keeps getting ignored. We followed up on that thread in int-area list. Have you read it? Please indicate where you disagree on that threat. Meanwhile, your above points are diverging from the requirement. > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the added > overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what impacts > operations adversely. Based on my work with operational departments I > can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this requirement and my > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again > > PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver > > the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > message's Option 82 and verified. > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to the > network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network device, not > the other way round. Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the BRAS learns the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during network access authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During DHCP, BRAS learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via DHCP. And BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. > In any case, the local link address option is a non > starter for IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. > > > > > > > > IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there, > > IETF does > > > not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. > > > ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model, > > > revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed > > primarily > > > of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol, > > > coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this > > mix has a > > > fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very > > > pragmatic issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this > > > issue, and it doesn't require specific expertise to see this. > > > > You are saying a new protocol is a no-no. I don't see that > > requirement anywhere. > > Perhaps if the equipment vendors were to pay operators to deploy, > maintain and troubleshoot (i.e. effectively out source operations) then > adding new protocols becomes a non issue. Any other arrangement is > operationally impacting, which comes down to increased costs for the > operator. The desire to remove PPP (an extra protocol) is a reverse > example of this. I see no way that adding new protocol (like PANA) can > claim not to increase it. Again, PANA does not match this requirement. Requirement has nothing to do with whether a new protocol can be added or not. Again, completely missing such a requirement. If you have issues with the requirements, you shall convince DSLF to modify it? > > > IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require > > changes to the > > > operating system. Open source implementation available. > > > ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA > > requires > > > that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address > > lease for > > > authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is > > > granted. > > > > As we said, this is not a MUST. There are other options. But > > to give you the full list: > > > > 1. PaC configures a link-local address, or 2. PaC configures > > a short-lease DHCP address > > 2.a. That address is same as what the PaC will use > > after successful > > authentication, or > > 2.b. PaC will be configured a new IP address after successful > > authentication. > > As stated earlier; local link addressing is a non starter (it doesn't > even convey circuit-id, besides being something of a esoteric substance > for IPv4). Discussed above. > Then, 2a does not meet the criteria of assigning a useful IP > address after authentication. Yes, option 2a's applicability is limited to those deployments/scenarios that do not rely on AAA-delivered IP address. [There's a workaround to this issue if DSLF is willing to accept going to AAA twice: Once for during DHCP; second time during PANA] > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to > the short DHCP leases are OS impacting. Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP server to set the lease time. > Finally, this link actually reveals the truth about the unsuitability of > DHCP-short leases on at least one popular OS platform (other > implementations deriving from RFC 1541 are likely to have similar > issues): > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158016 It's talking specifically about "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service". Is complying with "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service" deployment guidelines part of DSLF requirements? Can you figure out the technical essence, necessity of what they are saying? They even say "Additionally, a DHCP Administrator may want to assign a shorter lease time to scopes with low ratios of availible addresses. Setting the lease time shorter in both these cases will increase the availiblity of addresses." > > > The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change > > > without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address > > > lease is presented to the OS for use by applications other > > than PANA, > > > and then shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to > > > applications may occur as sockets are reset, applications which > > > received (or did not > > > receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not > > > receive or be able to handle this config change without > > some timeouts, > > > etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to > > move from > > > one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom > > line, the > > > IP address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of > > > potential for race conditions that could affect > > applications on the OS. > > > One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first > > DHCP lease > > > information to any application other than EAP, but of course this > > > likely requires OS changes. > > > > 1 and 2a have no problem. > > That's an assertion to which you're entitled, but based on the > previously presented arguments I disagree. OSes are impacted, 1 is a > no-go, and 2 introduces unnecessary complexity on the BRAS. > > > > > 2b requires the OS to hide the interface from applications. I > > worked on Solaris TCP/IP development. I know Solaris has a > > way to mark an interface hidden -- so that it does not appear > > to the applications that does not know it exists. I can see > > if other OSes have similar features. OSes which has this > > capability can also use 2b without impacting applications. > > Not everyone runs Solaris... Your statement contradicts the answer the > PANA WG gave to this requirement, yet you don't admit so. Allow me to > quote "Yes Implementation does not require changes to the operating > system. I gave Solaris as an example that I'm familiar with. We need to check other OSes if they support the same. If the same feature is available, it is usable this way. If not, it's still OK -- see Yoshi's response. > Open source implementation available.". The open source topic is > a red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to it, > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation. Do you see something in that implementation such that it shall not qualify as "open source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. > > > IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of > > > subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be > > configured prior > > > to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP > > > address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after > > > authentication. > > > ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses > > > (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them > > > does not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security > > > mechanisms used in the access network, > > > > Can you point to the text that we are breaking? > > Please check the IETF70 SAVI BOF material. In the pre-PANA DHCP > short-lease case IP traffic will flow between the client and the BRAS > before authentication. This is enough to have broken a common L2 > security mechanism, or require changes on the DSLAMs/Access-Nodes. > Again, this requirement is not fulfilled by PANA without resorting to > mechanisms that are un-realistic (and most likely broken) Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you for the 2nd time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever problems you are seeing with the client being configured with an IP address before it is authenticated, how does it work with DHCPv6 given that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address before it initiates DHCPv6? Alper > > -Woj. > > > > > And also explain how DHCPv6 that runs with link-local IPv6 > > address is not a problem (by now I asked this question at > > least 3 times here and there -- no > > answer....) > > > > > and requires that the BRAS and client OS be resilient to > > on-the-fly IP > > > address changes. > > > > Already explained above. > > > > > Also possibly the DSLAM and > > > L2 aggregation switches. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Woj. > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > > > > From: Alper Yegin > > > > To: > > > > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication > > > > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May > > 25, 2007, > > > > we > > > > > > > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > > > > > > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > > > > > > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members > > present in the > > > > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we > > are running > > > > this by the WG via mailing list. > > > > > > > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the > > mailing list > > > > by > > > > > > > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > > > > > > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a > > liaison letter to > > > > DSLF based on this consensus. > > > > > > > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 13:37:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i5D-0005yV-Hz; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:37:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i5C-0005y4-Bv for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:37:54 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0i5C-0000yC-2N for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:37:54 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-ac720bb000001e2e-f1-475993006fc6 Received: from steelhead.localdomain (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id B53114DC006; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J0i5A-0004Vr-2w; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:37:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:37:52 -0500 To: pana@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis Message-ID: <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org I have a feeling that the two things are mixed in the discussion : (i) whether a requirement is satisfied, and (ii) how complex a solution would be to satisfy the requirement. I suggest we focus on (i). I have a problem with discussing (ii) here, because it tends to be based on additional unwritten requirements such as "number of states" and "troubleshoot" and I cannot agree on arguments based on unwritten requirements. Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 13:54:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0iLi-0001x2-JL; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:54:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0iLh-0001wq-HK for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:54:57 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0iLg-0002E7-Mf for pana@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:54:57 -0500 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:54:34 +0100 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:54:34 +0100 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB026051CEE03@ftrdmel2> In-Reply-To: <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg5AEl1wGJuSSrZRySi7QawWJCi4gAABtFQ References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> From: "MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2007 18:54:34.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BC7F5B0:01C83902] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org The list of requirements is the only material available from the DSL = Forum and we should stay focus on! Actually I refer to a previous mail that I sent on this topic on the = Intarea ML: (snip) "Now, one "could" say that the PANA protocol specification is "quite" stable as a Proposed Standard RFC is available ;) Therefore, the = question is quite simple: why do not simply reconsider the use of PANA = in DSL environment? The proposed alternative, i.e. DHCP-based = authentication, that is for the moment only an individual submission at = IETF, will have anyway impacts on the DHCP client, the DHCP server and = DSL network node behaviours if the goal is to have EAP in DHCP. And the = proposed alternative do not explain why the current possible solution(s) = don't fulfil the DSL Forum requirements... And I'm not sure that there = is a direct link between the existing use of the DHCP option 82 in DSL = network leads seamlessly to DHCP-EAP... At least, a pragmatic approach within IETF would be to see how PANA can = fulfill DSL forum security requirements, see if there is some = functionality gaps, see if this gap could be fulfilled with within PANA = or with possible add-on solutions and if not, see other alternatives = should be investigated. Only because IETF has already defined "the = Protocol for Carrying Authentication for Network Access (PANA), a = network-layer transport for Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) to = enable network access authentication between clients and access = networks." I support the actual ongoing work in the PANA WG to clarify the fact = that PANA, as a candidate protocol, is fulfilling DSL requirements. It = is not said that PANA is the ultimate solution for DSL networks. It is = just said that the PANA protocol should be considered as serious = candidate protocol. And I agree with the current content of the slides. Lionel > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com]=20 > Envoy=E9 : vendredi 7 d=E9cembre 2007 19:38 > =C0 : pana@ietf.org > Cc : Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko > Objet : Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > I have a feeling that the two things are mixed in the=20 > discussion : (i) whether a requirement is satisfied, and (ii)=20 > how complex a solution would be to satisfy the requirement. =20 > I suggest we focus on (i). I have a problem with discussing=20 > (ii) here, because it tends to be based on additional=20 > unwritten requirements such as "number of states" and=20 > "troubleshoot" and I cannot agree on arguments based on=20 > unwritten requirements. >=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From AlexvorticesRobertson@petgroomer.com Fri Dec 07 17:00:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0lFH-0005mn-1Y; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:00:31 -0500 Received: from cc1125455-a.emmen1.dr.home.nl ([212.120.73.32] helo=cc1125455a.emmen1.dr.home.nl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0lFG-000736-MM; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:00:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host06860312.petgroomer.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id dxRPJjIl83.160690.7df.9mJ.2676974638956 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 23:00:16 -0100 Message-ID: <3db9901c8391c$938bcf60$204978d4@cc1125455a> From: "Oscar Rice" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_3DB95_01C8391C.938BCF60-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 20:57:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0owd-00074z-9A; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:57:31 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0owa-0006zS-RW; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:57:28 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0owa-0006QT-Dx; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:57:28 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Dec 2007 17:57:27 -0800 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB81vRNC026405; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:57:27 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB81vNxP027764; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:57:23 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:57:23 -0800 Received: from Rics-MacBook-Pro.local ([10.21.115.11]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:57:23 -0800 Message-ID: <4759FA01.3070204@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:57:21 -0800 From: Richard Pruss Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061025 Thunderbird/1.5.0.8 Mnenhy/0.7.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko References: <0MKpCa-1J062f2quU-00029G@mrelay.perfora.net> <475879CD.7050502@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <475879CD.7050502@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2007 01:57:23.0168 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC9AE600:01C8393D] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1684; t=1197079047; x=1197943047; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ric@cisco.com; z=From:=20Richard=20Pruss=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Int-area]=20responses=20to=20DSLF |Sender:=20; bh=boe9hxvJbZb4ufaw83BNDxItbsOlDRLID9sEExAlMDQ=; b=LPOrPRkbsxuwCfE4CW8T8sArxpcNXgpMyrfUw8yBVWmmnJJiL6TQYiQjzueNo7zmmCKYXpCX gYjsm7k7tCmX5j7FMgYolf/kvwFC/eApKGaLAyY0w9pTEBouhrIRix2W2IVWrUyugExurrsAtc ModeEH+Fe2E8jwR0gIvKRIOqY=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=ric@cisco.com; dkim=pass (sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: int-area@ietf.org, pana@ietf.org Subject: [Pana] Re: [Int-area] responses to DSLF X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ric@cisco.com List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org It seems totally inappropriate that the PANA WG send their own evaluation to the DSL Forum. If the small changes to DHCP we are suggesting to allow incremental migration from PPPoE are not acceptable, a different layer 2 solution like IEEE suggested like 802.1af, possibly coupled with 802.1aj is far preferable than this address swapping or link local for IPv4 business of PANA. Even if Layer 3 authentication is takes day, which I find unlikely given the size of these Layer 2 networks, I can see many preferable options to PANA: - HTTPS - HIP - SIP Ralph with the agreement of the AD's moved this discussion to the int-area, lets have the discussion here not in some little corner. - Ric Jari Arkko wrote, around 6/12/07 2:38 PM: > FYI. I plan to send a preliminary response from the ADs to the DSL Forum > at the end of this week. This response will indicate that we have > discussed the topic of DHCP authentication and the state of the > discussion (issues raised, ongoing debate, feeling from the meeting, > discussion will continue on the list, etc.). > > Alper has asked for an opportunity for the PANA WG to send a their > evaluation of PANA's suitability for DSL Forum's requirements. Such an > evaluation can be sent along as well, but in that case the status of > that evaluation i.e. ongoing debate will also be indicated. > > Additional responses will be sent when we make final conclusions on the > mailing list. > > Hope this clarifies, > > Jari > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From al.fergus@77.8m.com Sat Dec 08 02:51:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0uTK-0000Dl-JO for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:51:38 -0500 Received: from emq92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.21.236.92]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0uTE-0007Py-O2 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:51:38 -0500 Received: from ccc-461cf1c81ac ([192.152.105.127] helo=ccc-461cf1c81ac) by emq92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1cLYjn-000IGZ-XE for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:51:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c8396f$230e1e20$5cec1553@ccc461cf1c81ac> From: "al fergus" To: Subject: egnertna Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:51:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83977.84D28620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071130-0, 2007-11-30), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83977.84D28620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wassup pana-archive Start your new se>.
Wassup pana-archive
Start your new se>.
http://good-quality-casting.com<= /A>
al fergus
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83977.84D28620-- From ErnahardboardHutton@repec.org Sat Dec 08 07:42:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0z0f-0003yT-5V; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:42:21 -0500 Received: from pool-72-94-156-237.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([72.94.156.237] helo=ddlx1tb1.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0z0e-00049U-Qo; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:42:20 -0500 Received: from wasteland by repec.org with SMTP id z0t0vz6avE for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:42:05 +0500 From: "Freida Schulz" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0zJ1-0002ql-N2 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:01:19 -0500 Received: from 82-45-12-142.cable.ubr01.chap.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.45.12.142] helo=lounge) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0zJ1-0006nD-86 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:01:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host13051545.missamerica.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id cuj2OFqg77.985141.P47.DOB.1752616254374 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:01:00 +0000 Message-ID: <27cf01c8399a$7e9d1630$8e0c2d52@lounge> From: "Adrian Delong" To: Subject: Your life Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:01:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_27CB_01C8399A.7E9D1630" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_27CB_01C8399A.7E9D1630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_27CB_01C8399A.7E9D1630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_27CB_01C8399A.7E9D1630-- From craddockbart9@neste.com Sat Dec 08 08:05:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0zNC-0005wt-Ub for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:05:38 -0500 Received: from host-67-106-18-170.wbcable.net ([67.106.18.170]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0zNC-000796-Hq for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c8399b$0614ee62$aebeeb95@jtjey> From: "colin iolo" To: "Ashlee Ferguson" Subject: exclusive watches, affordable prices rolex Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:18:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces, the finest of products, at the lowest of prices!! http://supenselereg.net/ From thu-ji66jyh-chwe3@aas.com Sat Dec 08 09:28:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J10fO-0003MU-Gw for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 09:28:30 -0500 Received: from [196.209.194.44] (helo=c1-44-194.ndnn2.isadsl.co.za) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J10fM-0000mT-HP for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 09:28:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c839a6$01d1875a$e1bfebbc@nqguwgf> From: "dwayne cadwalader" To: "Chase Haskins" Subject: exclusive watches, lowest prices possible rolex Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:41:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces, the finest of products, at the lowest of prices!! http://supenselereg.net/ From LavernthoughtfulLynn@righteousbrothers.com Sat Dec 08 15:33:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J16ME-0004HH-Vn; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:33:07 -0500 Received: from [12.206.166.189] (helo=michaelaixhlx1) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J16ME-0001D6-Nj; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:33:06 -0500 Received: from regale by righteousbrothers.com with SMTP id 0b04bsPD8d for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:32:12 +0800 From: "Isiah Michael" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J16Zs-0007EV-Rb for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:47:12 -0500 Received: from [200.119.2.193] (helo=familybusiness.norcatel.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J16Zq-0001U2-RB for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:47:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host51190026.reuters.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id EP55cVVp82.688177.mj2.pMy.3806317066539 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:45:34 +0500 Message-ID: <93b9e01c839db$7de21a10$c10277c8@familybusiness> From: "Eliseo Duffy" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:45:34 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_93B9A_01C839DB.7DE21A10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_93B9A_01C839DB.7DE21A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_93B9A_01C839DB.7DE21A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_93B9A_01C839DB.7DE21A10-- From RobinevocableShoemaker@scvan.org Sat Dec 08 17:25:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1871-0004cp-RA; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:25:31 -0500 Received: from pool-72-82-178-253.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net ([72.82.178.253] helo=yourb27fb1c401.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1871-00045a-In; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:25:31 -0500 Received: from lingua by scvan.org with SMTP id fc2IfK0V7t for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 17:25:21 +0500 From: "Anne Pryor" To: Subject: When you join? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de We're serious about fun. Our safe, secure games will get you smiling when you start seeing dollars pouring in. Come find out. We know how to treat our players - how about a $999 welcome bonmus when you join? http://eurocasinoak.com/ From PamdisturbConklin@wiktionary.org Sat Dec 08 19:51:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1AOQ-0002Vh-Nk for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 19:51:38 -0500 Received: from 52-229-246-201.adsl.terra.cl ([201.246.229.52] helo=lacasa) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1AOQ-0007pp-5t for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 19:51:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host19013518.wiktionary.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id RVVVs4T770.763671.DbL.oqy.0824944060952 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:49:45 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Lynne Stover" To: Subject: Your order Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:49:45 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_C4859_01C83934.667AB6E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_C4859_01C83934.667AB6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_C4859_01C83934.667AB6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_C4859_01C83934.667AB6E0-- From LadonnapreenSapp@usefulinc.com Sat Dec 08 22:32:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1CuR-0006dL-FQ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:32:51 -0500 Received: from pool-72-73-104-21.ptldme.east.verizon.net ([72.73.104.21] helo=karen1.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1CuR-0003Ia-0X for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:32:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host97193955.usefulinc.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Gk6JrCni26.007996.mvQ.KHH.2011940663367 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:29:24 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Winnie Sapp" To: Subject: Your order Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:29:24 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_A420_01C83A14.2C53B760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_A420_01C83A14.2C53B760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_A420_01C83A14.2C53B760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_A420_01C83A14.2C53B760-- From Hepburnevmsf@7design.hr Sun Dec 09 05:53:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1JnH-0007mc-61 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 05:53:55 -0500 Received: from host99-96-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([82.53.96.99] helo=host235-112-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1JnG-0001Tv-2M for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 05:53:54 -0500 Received: by 10.3.89.60 with SMTP id GiZJzNcetNZPF; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:54:01 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.150.176 with SMTP id XcapFuApdHQfDm.8575196514650; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:53:59 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <62A0B5F0.0A1D6E3C@7design.hr> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:53:56 +0100 From: "Donica Hepburn" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: inleidt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060600040805030600080704" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------060600040805030600080704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit she never cums? make your dick big and she wont stop http://imagher.com/ --------------060600040805030600080704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit she never cums? make your dick big and she wont stop http://imagher.com/
--------------060600040805030600080704-- From TannermyopicPate@eastgate.com Sun Dec 09 08:44:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1MSd-0001Nv-4O; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:44:47 -0500 Received: from 54.29.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es ([87.221.29.54] helo=mayte) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1MSc-0005vr-Pb; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:44:47 -0500 Received: from burt by eastgate.com with SMTP id nWxE6eFaai for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:27:35 -0100 From: "Alec Conrad" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1NUo-0005CD-TJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:51:06 -0500 Received: from [151.67.150.185] (helo=[151.67.146.60]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1NUo-0007wp-AB for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:51:06 -0500 Received: by 10.16.102.157 with SMTP id kTdiFTAXQEKqs; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:51:09 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.75.176 with SMTP id vvpXxWhGgpZYxc.9825049301012; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:51:07 +0100 (GMT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:51:04 +0100 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Dobromir Pires" Subject: bzns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Hello pana-archive C1aaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllissssssssss http://sharpinch.com Dobromir Pires From LeighintimidateFarr@ilslaunch.com Sun Dec 09 13:00:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1QRy-0008HF-Bg; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:00:22 -0500 Received: from 142-217-44-54.telebecinternet.net ([142.217.44.54] helo=solu063a58977a.lino.sympatico.ca) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1QRy-00050U-04; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:00:22 -0500 Received: from intrigue by ilslaunch.com with SMTP id nXE9TnzEPT for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:00:14 +0400 From: "Teri Gustafson" To: Subject: USA players too! Download and GO! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071209-0, 09/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Best offer in gambling history . Win $$$ instead of throwing it all away at other casinos. When YOU WIN, we win! Come find out. http://eurocasinoak.com/ From MarianagunfireMedrano@thestreet.com Sun Dec 09 17:04:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1UFn-0003AF-CW for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:04:03 -0500 Received: from 81.203.207.225.dyn.user.ono.com ([81.203.207.225] helo=silviaobg4bvnw) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1UFk-0006SR-V5 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:04:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host79339553.thestreet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id M56dqGef96.688395.dAW.CEa.0243316228576 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:02:52 -0100 Message-ID: <400de01c83aaf$652524c0$e1cfcb51@silviaobg4bvnw> From: "Freida Mohr" To: Subject: Your health Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:02:52 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_400DA_01C83AAF.652524C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_400DA_01C83AAF.652524C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_400DA_01C83AAF.652524C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_400DA_01C83AAF.652524C0-- From RenecongressBates@uiaccess.com Sun Dec 09 20:06:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1X5s-0004zd-PU for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:06:00 -0500 Received: from modemcable144.30-70-69.static.videotron.ca ([69.70.30.144] helo=gzone014) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1X5s-0002bk-Ez for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:06:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host83982865.uiaccess.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id ElmKepBm19.430241.vSD.1gT.6641048674672 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:04:39 +0500 Message-ID: <12adc301c83ac8$c069d290$901e4645@gzone014> From: "Wade Fletcher" To: Subject: Your health Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:04:39 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_12ADBF_01C83AC8.C069D290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_12ADBF_01C83AC8.C069D290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_12ADBF_01C83AC8.C069D290 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_12ADBF_01C83AC8.C069D290-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 09 20:12:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1XBu-0001rQ-BL; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:12:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1XBs-0001oD-Iv for pana@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:12:12 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1XBp-0000lG-KC for pana@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:12:12 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F ([88.233.38.113]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:12:09 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:12:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg6yatne07EB8BsTSGrSeSzybsrAA== Message-Id: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+h8UIqIzG5a6Ml+ElJd5EzmMsMbm5ZFKjpTgs vuPhodO1FYVnTaHEr80bAUT+y2TOqSB93mSEc8swLYT+nv3TpL A/S6fczD0BojMNvWRo1Rg== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access) Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on defining a link-layer type independent network access authentication protocol. WG has completed its work on specifying the PANA protocol and the specification is now in the RFC editors queue for publication as a proposed standard (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement to the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work in the IETF which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for subscriber authentication in the context of the evolution of the DSL architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has been identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA from the early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058 (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific DSLF requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at IETF70 in Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the WG meeting as well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the applicability of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication requirements. The PANA WG's analysis is attached to this letter. We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee to review the suitability of PANA for addressing your requirements especially in view of the fact that the protocol is now lined up to be published as a proposed standard RFC by the IETF. If you have further questions or need clarifications, please do not hesitate to contact the PANA WG. IETF PANA WG Chairs _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From fujii@cgsarchitecture.com Sun Dec 09 20:36:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1XZb-0000ik-TK; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:36:43 -0500 Received: from por07.cpe.cableonda.net ([190.140.239.230] helo=POR07.umip.ac.pa) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1XZa-0001HE-QB; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:36:43 -0500 Received: from [190.140.239.230] by INBOUND.CGSARCHITECTURE.COM.NETSOLMAIL.NET; , 9 Dec 2007 20:53:13 -0500 From: "Willie Hamm" To: Subject: Re: Hamm Date: , 9 Dec 2007 20:53:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01c83aa5$837bc280$e6ef8cbe@fujii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Men all over the world are going to love this product... http://www.tuisther.com so you look to DesignHead First book, you know From reweissi@ultraform.com Sun Dec 09 22:36:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ZRH-0002oy-Bt; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:36:15 -0500 Received: from [201.229.145.235] (helo=tdev145-235.codetel.net.do) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ZRF-0004fi-R7; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:36:15 -0500 Received: from [201.229.145.235] by mx1.layer8hosting.com; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:39:53 +0100 Message-ID: <01c83ae6$b4c8b280$eb91e5c9@reweissi> From: "vroWoodruff" To: Subject: trouble finding buddies Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:39:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Hey You I'm 26 years old I read your profile online Reply to me at Hieroglyph@GloryLandUsa.info and tell me about yourself if you want to chat or get to know each other better I will respond right away and send a pic and some of my info right away Thank you From DeAndregddfg@a-taste-of-wales.com Sun Dec 09 22:55:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ZkF-0004Ov-4b for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:55:51 -0500 Received: from acnw132.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.10.176.132] helo=acnn252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ZkE-0007Ia-4t for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:55:50 -0500 Received: from joybook ([187.185.82.51] helo=joybook) by acnn252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1PWBTf-000RWW-Lf for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:56:23 +0100 Message-ID: <76E4F369.A1FEE386@a-taste-of-wales.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:55:44 +0100 From: "DeAndre gddfg" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: rejab Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000008020506060406020706" X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------000008020506060406020706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you will score with ease if you enlarge your dick http://iceggozi.com/ --------------000008020506060406020706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you will score with ease if you enlarge your dick http://iceggozi.com/
--------------000008020506060406020706-- From DennyepoxyMercado@northernattack.com Sun Dec 09 23:30:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1aHn-0005Jo-7j; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:30:31 -0500 Received: from [190.48.37.81] (helo=cyber13) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1aHm-0008AU-K9; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:30:30 -0500 Received: from wi by northernattack.com with SMTP id CnG29KKlP0 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:30:16 +0300 From: "Issac Herring" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1awU-0004qM-5e for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:12:34 -0500 Received: from [61.7.183.103] (helo=oa) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1awT-0000ax-En for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:12:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host36232210.theinquirer.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id MnwvdQ7575.227998.ktY.WA8.3823557512320 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:11:59 +1200 Message-ID: <29811f01c83b8a$972948d0$7300a8c0@oa> From: "Alva Peck" To: Subject: Your family Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:11:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_29811B_01C83B8A.972948D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_29811B_01C83B8A.972948D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_29811B_01C83B8A.972948D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_29811B_01C83B8A.972948D0-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 03:25:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1dxP-0004i9-SM; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:25:43 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1dxO-0004hh-Ec for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:25:42 -0500 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.247]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1dxN-0001vI-VX for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:25:42 -0500 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so362864and for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:25:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=QPkiwLoNz8lfv6WGkM3LpBepplEksdWHaN87vVztfyY=; b=ajyeVsKqZbwBXpNqjYcgY2Y/zgvioAIz1QnBPhOjWn31nQbtAK35z0yWlFE8vjk1j1Aol/SdJbrSNcjJ+QLL6m1ZsEzqEYfnNv6M3EQ1kUS434hNGNCjRMyZbCUdNPElD1LCD8nXokw9R9YqNcxGPi4I8j1zdevLI97KiEp4V3Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LbUwfLoMa8eCij8c78YSW+4xI+4mq3UXpkz69SES1YGXJvaE3RUuBV0nISXiyqhnZYWS134srsUxeXRNKPB8RBBZXRSW8l1DUupQ73RHnivxgV/BsBuku1GvBZWejU2bSKssWwCsEYCwc9wKxN0w/bStpL0CR6dhWTWHOgmKj+8= Received: by 10.100.254.18 with SMTP id b18mr14360765ani.1197275141692; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.249.18 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:25:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5e2406980712100025u2868567bjcf6602a2bd951bc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:25:41 +0100 From: "Julien Bournelle" To: "MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS" Subject: Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis In-Reply-To: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB026051CEE03@ftrdmel2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB026051CEE03@ftrdmel2> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Yoshihiro Ohba , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I second lionel. PANA fulfills DSL Forum requirements and should be considered as a serious candidate. Regards, Julien Bournelle On Dec 7, 2007 7:54 PM, MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS wrote: > The list of requirements is the only material available from the DSL Foru= m and we should stay focus on! > > Actually I refer to a previous mail that I sent on this topic on the Inta= rea ML: > (snip) > > "Now, one "could" say that the PANA protocol specification is "quite" > stable as a Proposed Standard RFC is available ;) Therefore, the question= is quite simple: why do not simply reconsider the use of PANA in DSL envir= onment? The proposed alternative, i.e. DHCP-based authentication, that is f= or the moment only an individual submission at IETF, will have anyway impac= ts on the DHCP client, the DHCP server and DSL network node behaviours if t= he goal is to have EAP in DHCP. And the proposed alternative do not explain= why the current possible solution(s) don't fulfil the DSL Forum requiremen= ts... And I'm not sure that there is a direct link between the existing use= of the DHCP option 82 in DSL network leads seamlessly to DHCP-EAP... > > At least, a pragmatic approach within IETF would be to see how PANA can f= ulfill DSL forum security requirements, see if there is some functionality = gaps, see if this gap could be fulfilled with within PANA or with possible = add-on solutions and if not, see other alternatives should be investigated.= Only because IETF has already defined "the Protocol for Carrying Authentic= ation for Network Access (PANA), a network-layer transport for Extensible A= uthentication Protocol (EAP) to enable network access authentication betwee= n clients and access networks." > > I support the actual ongoing work in the PANA WG to clarify the fact that= PANA, as a candidate protocol, is fulfilling DSL requirements. It is not s= aid that PANA is the ultimate solution for DSL networks. It is just said th= at the PANA protocol should be considered as serious candidate protocol. > > And I agree with the current content of the slides. > > Lionel > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com] > > Envoy=E9 : vendredi 7 d=E9cembre 2007 19:38 > > =C0 : pana@ietf.org > > Cc : Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko > > Objet : Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > > > I have a feeling that the two things are mixed in the > > discussion : (i) whether a requirement is satisfied, and (ii) > > how complex a solution would be to satisfy the requirement. > > I suggest we focus on (i). I have a problem with discussing > > (ii) here, because it tends to be based on additional > > unwritten requirements such as "number of states" and > > "troubleshoot" and I cannot agree on arguments based on > > unwritten requirements. > > > > Yoshihiro Ohba > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pana mailing list > > Pana@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From KristaaverseLeal@lostgarden.com Mon Dec 10 05:21:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1fky-0004JN-Gw; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:21:00 -0500 Received: from [82.102.240.231] (helo=pc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1fky-0007Pg-0l; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:21:00 -0500 Received: from emboss by lostgarden.com with SMTP id KyGbRQaYK7 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:20:52 -0200 From: "Robyn Bower" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gO9-0005FS-J0 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:01:29 -0500 Received: from cc770435-a.groni1.gr.home.nl ([82.73.187.132]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1gO9-0000Dl-4T for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:01:29 -0500 Received: from cc770435-a by suffolkredcross.org with ASMTP id 3EF7B797 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:01:53 +0100 Received: from cc770435-a ([186.150.28.40]) by suffolkredcross.org with ESMTP id 21B9F8387B2E for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:01:53 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:01:27 +0100 From: "Ry devall" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ontvlek Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010808030100060305010107" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------010808030100060305010107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Turn your "willie" into a Moby Dick. http://www.bccst.com/ --------------010808030100060305010107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Turn your "willie" into a Moby Dick. http://www.bccst.com/
--------------010808030100060305010107-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 06:20:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ggX-0008CN-VP; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:20:29 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ggW-0008CH-VZ for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:20:29 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ggW-0000f8-Go for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:20:28 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.23,276,1194217200"; d="scan'208";a="445605" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Dec 2007 12:20:27 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBABKRFF021184; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:20:27 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBABKCmm012301; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:20:23 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:20:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Liaison letter cover Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:19:55 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Liaison letter cover Thread-Index: Acg6yatne07EB8BsTSGrSeSzybsrAAAVF/pg References: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2007 11:20:04.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CA1DB90:01C83B1E] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2548; t=1197285627; x=1198149627; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Liaison=20letter=20cover |Sender:=20; bh=+6gZ/YkpfgHfSRrxePCDzzqireZjt54Ioxlz7T8LbhY=; b=HYRoX/BUJnu5bEzwGEuYwv3fXD8e+q61Yidp13iFZdU8b0JRC9E4CgIHyx N74msjxcaj7JsusJs5VIA2xL6QA7tZB/ar7WKRZS84J187qEbGUr5YPkW/Lu c089LlaHYi; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Alper, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard consensus "about the applicability of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber=20 authentication requirements." Particulalry not with the issues I pointed out. This assesment is premature, and the text of the liaison is not in order and I call for it to be revised.=20 Regards, Woj. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org]=20 > Sent: 10 December 2007 02:12 > To: pana@ietf.org > Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover >=20 >=20 > This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network=20 > Access) Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on=20 > defining a link-layer type independent network access=20 > authentication protocol. WG has completed its work on=20 > specifying the PANA protocol and the specification is now in=20 > the RFC editors queue for publication as a proposed standard=20 > (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). >=20 > Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement=20 > to the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work=20 > in the IETF which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for=20 > subscriber authentication in the context of the evolution of=20 > the DSL architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has=20 > been identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA=20 > from the early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058=20 > (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific=20 > DSLF requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at=20 > IETF70 in Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the=20 > WG meeting as well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the=20 > applicability of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber=20 > authentication requirements. The PANA WG's analysis is=20 > attached to this letter. >=20 > We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee=20 > to review the suitability of PANA for addressing your=20 > requirements especially in view of the fact that the protocol=20 > is now lined up to be published as a proposed standard RFC by=20 > the IETF. If you have further questions or need=20 > clarifications, please do not hesitate to contact the PANA WG. >=20 >=20 >=20 > IETF PANA WG Chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 07:06:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1hOi-0003DU-Eg; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:06:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1hOg-0003DI-Nz for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:06:06 -0500 Received: from mail.um.es ([155.54.212.109]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1hOe-0007K4-OQ for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:06:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162B983EC8; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:06:04 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.4.2 (20060627) (Debian) at xenon3.telemat.um.es Received: from mail.um.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (xenon3.telemat.um.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id X+V2SI593l-T; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:05:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [155.54.205.155] (inf-205-155.um.es [155.54.205.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: rafa@smtp.um.es) by mail.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB11383ECB; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:04:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <475D2B3D.6070401@dif.um.es> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:04:13 +0100 From: Rafa Marin Lopez Organization: University of Murcia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061115) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB026051CEE03@ftrdmel2> <5e2406980712100025u2868567bjcf6602a2bd951bc@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5e2406980712100025u2868567bjcf6602a2bd951bc@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Yoshihiro Ohba , MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I cannot be more agree with Lionel's comments here. I support the=20 consensus taken in PANA WG and the content of the slides. Best regards. Julien Bournelle escribi=F3: > Hi all, > > I second lionel. PANA fulfills DSL Forum requirements and should be > considered as a serious candidate. > > Regards, > > Julien Bournelle > > On Dec 7, 2007 7:54 PM, MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS > wrote: > =20 >> The list of requirements is the only material available from the DSL F= orum and we should stay focus on! >> >> Actually I refer to a previous mail that I sent on this topic on the I= ntarea ML: >> (snip) >> >> "Now, one "could" say that the PANA protocol specification is "quite" >> stable as a Proposed Standard RFC is available ;) Therefore, the quest= ion is quite simple: why do not simply reconsider the use of PANA in DSL = environment? The proposed alternative, i.e. DHCP-based authentication, th= at is for the moment only an individual submission at IETF, will have any= way impacts on the DHCP client, the DHCP server and DSL network node beha= viours if the goal is to have EAP in DHCP. And the proposed alternative d= o not explain why the current possible solution(s) don't fulfil the DSL F= orum requirements... And I'm not sure that there is a direct link between= the existing use of the DHCP option 82 in DSL network leads seamlessly t= o DHCP-EAP... >> >> At least, a pragmatic approach within IETF would be to see how PANA ca= n fulfill DSL forum security requirements, see if there is some functiona= lity gaps, see if this gap could be fulfilled with within PANA or with po= ssible add-on solutions and if not, see other alternatives should be inve= stigated. Only because IETF has already defined "the Protocol for Carryin= g Authentication for Network Access (PANA), a network-layer transport for= Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) to enable network access authen= tication between clients and access networks." >> >> I support the actual ongoing work in the PANA WG to clarify the fact t= hat PANA, as a candidate protocol, is fulfilling DSL requirements. It is = not said that PANA is the ultimate solution for DSL networks. It is just = said that the PANA protocol should be considered as serious candidate pro= tocol. >> >> And I agree with the current content of the slides. >> >> Lionel >> >> >> =20 >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com] >>> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 7 d=E9cembre 2007 19:38 >>> =C0 : pana@ietf.org >>> Cc : Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko >>> Objet : Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis >>> =20 >>> I have a feeling that the two things are mixed in the >>> discussion : (i) whether a requirement is satisfied, and (ii) >>> how complex a solution would be to satisfy the requirement. >>> I suggest we focus on (i). I have a problem with discussing >>> (ii) here, because it tends to be based on additional >>> unwritten requirements such as "number of states" and >>> "troubleshoot" and I cannot agree on arguments based on >>> unwritten requirements. >>> >>> Yoshihiro Ohba >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pana mailing list >>> Pana@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >>> >>> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > > > =20 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------ Rafael Marin Lopez Depto. Ing. de la Info. y las Comunicaciones Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia 30100 Murcia - Spain Telf: +34968398501 e-mail: rafa@dif.um.es ------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 08:37:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ip8-0001a7-R1; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:37:30 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ip5-0001ZR-EY for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:37:28 -0500 Received: from [2001:418:1403:0:212:17ff:fe52:7811] (helo=toshi17.tari.toshiba.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1ip2-0000xb-Vy for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:37:27 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (toshi17.tari.toshiba.com [172.30.24.10]) by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBADapei086338; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:36:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from vfajardo@tari.toshiba.com) Message-ID: <475D40F0.7010700@tari.toshiba.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:36:48 -0500 From: Victor Fajardo User-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20071018) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julien Bournelle Subject: Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis References: <0MKpCa-1J0Oat3QJ9-0001wi@mrelay.perfora.net> <20071207183751.GC16753@steelhead.localdomain> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB026051CEE03@ftrdmel2> <5e2406980712100025u2868567bjcf6602a2bd951bc@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5e2406980712100025u2868567bjcf6602a2bd951bc@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com id lBADapei086338 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Yoshihiro Ohba , MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I agree with the PANA analysis as well. I think PANA fits the DSL Forum=20 requirements quite cleanly. Additionally, the proposed alternative,=20 i.e.; DHCP-based authentication would essentially be a remake of=20 functionality that PANA already possess with the dis-advantage of having=20 DHCP and authentication tightly coupled. So, it just common sense to=20 consider PANA as an alternative. The claim that DHCP solution is less=20 intrusive does'nt make sense to me either, since your going to have to=20 modify the DHCP client and server implementation regardless. This is=20 probably more disruptive than just adding another protocol on top of an=20 existing IP stack; i.e. PANA. I maybe stating the obvious but it=20 certainly is better from an architecture stand point not to create a=20 monolithic do it all protocol from DHCP. regards, Victor Fajardo > Hi all, > > I second lionel. PANA fulfills DSL Forum requirements and should be > considered as a serious candidate. > > Regards, > > Julien Bournelle > > On Dec 7, 2007 7:54 PM, MORAND Lionel RD-CORE-ISS > wrote: > =20 >> The list of requirements is the only material available from the DSL F= orum and we should stay focus on! >> >> Actually I refer to a previous mail that I sent on this topic on the I= ntarea ML: >> (snip) >> >> "Now, one "could" say that the PANA protocol specification is "quite" >> stable as a Proposed Standard RFC is available ;) Therefore, the quest= ion is quite simple: why do not simply reconsider the use of PANA in DSL = environment? The proposed alternative, i.e. DHCP-based authentication, th= at is for the moment only an individual submission at IETF, will have any= way impacts on the DHCP client, the DHCP server and DSL network node beha= viours if the goal is to have EAP in DHCP. And the proposed alternative d= o not explain why the current possible solution(s) don't fulfil the DSL F= orum requirements... And I'm not sure that there is a direct link between= the existing use of the DHCP option 82 in DSL network leads seamlessly t= o DHCP-EAP... >> >> At least, a pragmatic approach within IETF would be to see how PANA ca= n fulfill DSL forum security requirements, see if there is some functiona= lity gaps, see if this gap could be fulfilled with within PANA or with po= ssible add-on solutions and if not, see other alternatives should be inve= stigated. Only because IETF has already defined "the Protocol for Carryin= g Authentication for Network Access (PANA), a network-layer transport for= Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) to enable network access authen= tication between clients and access networks." >> >> I support the actual ongoing work in the PANA WG to clarify the fact t= hat PANA, as a candidate protocol, is fulfilling DSL requirements. It is = not said that PANA is the ultimate solution for DSL networks. It is just = said that the PANA protocol should be considered as serious candidate pro= tocol. >> >> And I agree with the current content of the slides. >> >> Lionel >> >> >> =20 >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com] >>> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 7 d=E9cembre 2007 19:38 >>> =C0 : pana@ietf.org >>> Cc : Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko >>> Objet : Re: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis >>> =20 >>> I have a feeling that the two things are mixed in the >>> discussion : (i) whether a requirement is satisfied, and (ii) >>> how complex a solution would be to satisfy the requirement. >>> I suggest we focus on (i). I have a problem with discussing >>> (ii) here, because it tends to be based on additional >>> unwritten requirements such as "number of states" and >>> "troubleshoot" and I cannot agree on arguments based on >>> unwritten requirements. >>> >>> Yoshihiro Ohba >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pana mailing list >>> Pana@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >>> >>> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > > =20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 13:43:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1nbb-00005t-Cs; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:51 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1nba-00005n-6e for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:50 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1nbZ-0003d3-NX for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:50 -0500 Received: from mailee.research.telcordia.com (mailee [192.4.16.29]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lBAIhdO8021476; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.96.58.250] (vpntnlA250 [128.96.58.250]) by mailee.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00924; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <475D88DB.1010302@research.telcordia.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:43:39 -0500 From: Subir Das User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" Subject: Re: [Pana] Liaison letter cover References: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org I thought your issues were answered. If not, please let the WG know it once again. It would be helpful if you stay focus on the current requirements not w.r.t. the cost and complexity since there are no such requirements yet. regards, -Subir Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: > Alper, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard consensus "about the applicability > of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber > authentication requirements." Particulalry not with the issues I pointed > out. > This assesment is premature, and the text of the liaison is not in order > and I call for it to be revised. > > Regards, > Woj. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] >> Sent: 10 December 2007 02:12 >> To: pana@ietf.org >> Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover >> >> >> This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. >> >> >> >> The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network >> Access) Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on >> defining a link-layer type independent network access >> authentication protocol. WG has completed its work on >> specifying the PANA protocol and the specification is now in >> the RFC editors queue for publication as a proposed standard >> (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). >> >> Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement >> to the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work >> in the IETF which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for >> subscriber authentication in the context of the evolution of >> the DSL architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has >> been identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA >> from the early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058 >> (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific >> DSLF requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at >> IETF70 in Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the >> WG meeting as well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the >> applicability of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber >> authentication requirements. The PANA WG's analysis is >> attached to this letter. >> >> We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee >> to review the suitability of PANA for addressing your >> requirements especially in view of the fact that the protocol >> is now lined up to be published as a proposed standard RFC by >> the IETF. If you have further questions or need >> clarifications, please do not hesitate to contact the PANA WG. >> >> >> >> IETF PANA WG Chairs >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 17:53:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1rV1-0000IK-Pp; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:53:19 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1rV1-0000IF-3H for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:53:19 -0500 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1rV0-0002Az-9t for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:53:18 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Dec 2007 22:53:16 -0000 Received: from p549867C5.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.1.2]) [84.152.103.197] by mail.gmx.net (mp055) with SMTP; 10 Dec 2007 23:53:16 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+yO6QZ69eyW0i+5uiH3EM7ooLtu0oFYdOiP21RWQ 5d/1+tvc4CEXqj Message-ID: <475DC35B.90705@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:53:15 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alper Yegin Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: "'W. Mark Townsley'" , 'Jari Arkko' , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Hi Alper, thanks for compiling this slide set. The analysis sounds accurate to me. Ciao Hannes Alper Yegin wrote: > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication Requirements > as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the > following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the room. In > order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by the WG > via mailing list. > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to DSLF > based on this consensus. > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 18:32:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1s6x-0006L6-LM; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:31 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1s6w-0006Kz-M5 for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:30 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1s6w-0007p2-B6 for pana@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:30 -0500 Received: from mailee.research.telcordia.com (mailee [192.4.16.29]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lBANWNNI016965; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.96.58.250] (vpntnlA250 [128.96.58.250]) by mailee.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28788; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <475DCC87.2010803@research.telcordia.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:32:23 -0500 From: Subir Das User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> <475DC35B.90705@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <475DC35B.90705@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: "'W. Mark Townsley'" , 'Jari Arkko' , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Fine with me too. regards, -Subir Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Hi Alper, > > thanks for compiling this slide set. > The analysis sounds accurate to me. > > Ciao > Hannes > > Alper Yegin wrote: >> In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication >> Requirements >> as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the >> following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. >> >> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt >> >> We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the >> room. In >> order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by >> the WG >> via mailing list. >> >> If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by >> December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. >> If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to >> DSLF >> based on this consensus. >> >> - IETF PANA WG Chairs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From monika4kyle6@gardengatemag.com Tue Dec 11 03:40:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J20f3-00018W-OS for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:40:17 -0500 Received: from p2138-ipbf401akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp ([123.218.63.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J20f3-0007JX-4z for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:40:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c83bd2$03dfdad6$1c03d58c@qcvcs> From: "guillermo kyahn" To: "Adan Mccoy" Subject: exclusive watches, brand name quality rolex Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:57:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://zipsialrep.com/ From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 06:56:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J23jN-0003ON-Cq; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:56:57 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J23jL-0003Ds-Va for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:56:56 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J23jJ-0006dS-H0 for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:56:55 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,151,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="561489" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 12:56:51 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBBBuo32007762; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:56:50 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBBBtWnA004139; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:56:44 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:56:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:56:29 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg4sI0WK7qPBYFdShaDsjvWt2zZ8ACitUfw References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 11:56:38.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2B67C70:01C83BEC] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=20757; t=1197374210; x=1198238210; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=ZPSL6uVyGjSZ7jT8PBZwYu4pQqYbm2V/eDvjmn7c7VM=; b=rtmXN+ObYYbVECQaJZ9oPTJr1yTaHIPQPOH+9tRnoEh9xYYvFno9Ng3aPL X/gP5TgdmKRbk31215b450cSaaS6YdiwHiF5Exe2Pk6Os+XUvXNs8sit1Pg+ Hyf7N2xrE+; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 64b72a8e61417554b4b727cb14e7034d Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Alper, for some reason this reply did not make it into my inbox, so I'm re-posting it from the web archive and continuing inline... Woj> [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis * To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , * Subject: [Pana] RE: DSLF Requirement analysis * From: "Alper Yegin" * Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:33:11 +0200 * Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' * In-reply-to: * List-help: * List-id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access * List-post: * List-subscribe: , * List-unsubscribe: , * Thread-index: Acg3qrpcpTCbqQAJTkSq+3+4uj3tFgAK4myQABTOtoAAB/qrYAAHX63wACROlKA=3D Wojciech, I see some times your points are digressing from what the requirements are talking about. We shall discuss other things separately in order to keep the focus on the requirements. I'm not saying they are not important; I'm saying those discussions outside the scope of the requirements do not impact the response IETF PANA WG is preparing in response to requirements. Woj> The assessment of whether the requirements are met or not, in a reasonable manner, is the main point of the issues I described. I don't see how you can say that I am digressing by providing insight into the requirements, especially since I have been involved in the work at the DSLF. I'm not against the PANA WG formulating such an assessment, but it should be reasonable and insightful. The one presented currently isn't. Furthermore the fact that several equipment vendors have alerted you to the issues with a possible implementation and use of PANA as an authentication mechanism for IP Sessions in a DSL environment (the purpose of these requirements) should be seen as alarming. The WG is choosing to ignore this. The landscape (including that of the IETF) is littered with technologies, done by smart people, but which fail because of precisely such issues. Claiming they don't exist doesn't help. DSLF is free to expand the requirements and request PANA WG to work on it. In fact I'm hearing that members are taking additional requirements to next week's DSLF meeting. > > > IPAuth-4 Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any > > > additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC > > address, Option82 > > > circuit-id. > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes. MAC address is already > > available on the IP > > > messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of > > Option 82 with > > > DHCP. > > > ISSUE: There is a fundamental problem in this assessment in that it > > > assumes that DHCP Option 82 authentication will happen *separately* > > > from PANA authentication or that somehow a mechanism will be > > > implemented that allows PANA authentication to retrieve some cached > > > DHCP option info (more on this later). This is either effectively > > > double authentication with double the Radius messaging load, or a > > > significant complication for BRASes. It is contrary to the > > spirit of > > > the requirement which says that at (single) authentication > > additional > > > parameters like client MAC address and/or Option 82 must be > > available. > > > > There does not have to be two RADIUS calls. > > > > If the pre-PANA address is configured via DHCP (as opposed to > > being a link-local address), then the Option 82 is made > > available to the authenticator but that does not trigger > > RADIUS call. Instead, RADIUS call is triggered when the PANA > > starts. So, the RADIUS call triggered by PANA can convey both > > the circuit ID and also carry out the EAP authentication. >=20 > So this avoidance of double authentication relies on what I refer to > above as a dedicated mechanism that retrieves cached circuit-id info. BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns via RADIUS. What dedicated mechanism are you referring to?=20 Woj> There needs to be a dedicated mechanism is the one whereby some software component on the BRAS needs to pick up info from the sw-component "caching" circuit-id info, when PANA is ready, and shoot off the result to AAA. All this coupling and coordination of components is bad news for session bring up time, troubleshooting, etc. > It seems that this mechanism is likely to be more complex, and more > operationally impacting then I originally thought due to the coupling > between DHCP and PANA. The extra complexity stems from the need to keep > (on the BRAS) track of at least; pre-PANA hosts that have not > authenticated; pre-PANA hosts that have authenticated; post-PANA hosts > that have authenticated; pre-PANA addressing assignments; post-PANA > addressing assignment. This swapping of each host from one state to the > other is enough to radically impact the session bring-up rate of any > BRAS. This is a comment that has been expressed by all BRAS vendors, and > somehow keeps getting ignored. We followed up on that thread in int-area list. Have you read it? Please indicate where you disagree on that threat. Meanwhile, your above points are diverging from the requirement.=20 Woj> There is nothing diverging in saying that the way PANA claims to meet this requirement comes at a significant cost of complexity (to both a BRAS, and to an operator), which is what is failed to be considered; PANA has no way of carrying circuit-id info defined today, and requires an assorted tightly coupled mechanism to be in place to meet the requirement.=20 > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the added > overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what impacts > operations adversely. Based on my work with operational departments I > can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this requirement and my > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again > > PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver > > the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > message's Option 82 and verified. >=20 > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to the > network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network device, not > the other way round.=20 Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the BRAS learns the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during network access authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During DHCP, BRAS learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via DHCP. And BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the AAA response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the BRAS. This is even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also requiring an operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another requirement actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! > In any case, the local link address option is a non > starter for IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. Woj> A couple of non trivial issues: - Show me any SP using it for anything in broadband? (Link local has been defined for small networks) - Doesn't work in shared VLAN model where host-host L2 forwarding is disabled (the conflict resolution mechanism doesn't work) - Requires more changes on Access node to enable forwarding >=20 > > > > > > > IPAuth-6 Must fit into TR-101 operational model > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Although we do not see any issues there, > > IETF does > > > not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. > > > ISSUE: The TR-101 operational model, as any DSL operator's model, > > > revolves around a familiar access protocol toolset composed > > primarily > > > of; PPP, PPPoE, DHCP, Radius. Introducing a totally new protocol, > > > coupled with additional device configuration, etc, to this > > mix has a > > > fair bit of operational impact on an operator. This is a very > > > pragmatic issue, but very relevant. PANA clearly suffers from this > > > issue, and it doesn't require specific expertise to see this. > > > > You are saying a new protocol is a no-no. I don't see that > > requirement anywhere. >=20 > Perhaps if the equipment vendors were to pay operators to deploy, > maintain and troubleshoot (i.e. effectively out source operations) then > adding new protocols becomes a non issue. Any other arrangement is > operationally impacting, which comes down to increased costs for the > operator. The desire to remove PPP (an extra protocol) is a reverse > example of this. I see no way that adding new protocol (like PANA) can > claim not to increase it. Again, PANA does not match this requirement. Requirement has nothing to do with whether a new protocol can be added or not. Again, completely missing such a requirement. If you have issues with the requirements, you shall convince DSLF to modify it? Woj> Try this exercise. The requirement states: Must fit into TR-101 operational model. Read TR-101, draw an operational model and see what components come up. I assure you that things like managing pre-PANA pools, handling pre-PANA authentication failures, configuring PANA, dealing with link local addressing, etc, will not be there, nor will you find any operator currently managing this items. It doesn't take a wealth of knowledge to see that PANA is a new operational item, and the assessment presented is not correct. > > > IPAuth-9 Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes Implementation does not require > > changes to the > > > operating system. Open source implementation available. > > > ISSUE: I believe there are overlooked OS impacts here. PANA > > requires > > > that a short, but not too short, temporary DHCP ip address > > lease for > > > authentication be granted before the second post-PANA DHCP lease is > > > granted. > > > > As we said, this is not a MUST. There are other options. But > > to give you the full list: > > > > 1. PaC configures a link-local address, or 2. PaC configures > > a short-lease DHCP address > > 2.a. That address is same as what the PaC will use > > after successful > > authentication, or > > 2.b. PaC will be configured a new IP address after successful > > authentication. >=20 > As stated earlier; local link addressing is a non starter (it doesn't > even convey circuit-id, besides being something of a esoteric substance > for IPv4).=20 Discussed above.=20 > Then, 2a does not meet the criteria of assigning a useful IP > address after authentication.=20 Yes, option 2a's applicability is limited to those deployments/scenarios that do not rely on AAA-delivered IP address. [There's a workaround to this issue if DSLF is willing to accept going to AAA twice: Once for during DHCP; second time during PANA] Woj> One of the problems in the assessment is that it appears to respond to different requirements with different PANA deployment models (there are at least three - 1, 2a and 2b). Since an operator will only use one of these, the assessment should clarify which one is assumed in each case.=20 > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to > the short DHCP leases are OS impacting. Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP server to set the lease time. Woj> But the client is affected, eg DHCP stack... The assessment claims no such impact is there. > Finally, this link actually reveals the truth about the unsuitability of > DHCP-short leases on at least one popular OS platform (other > implementations deriving from RFC 1541 are likely to have similar > issues): > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158016 It's talking specifically about "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service". Is complying with "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service" deployment guidelines part of DSLF requirements? Can you figure out the technical essence, necessity of what they are saying? They even say "Additionally, a DHCP Administrator may want to assign a shorter lease time to scopes with low ratios of available addresses. Setting the lease time shorter in both these cases will increase the availability of addresses." Woj> The above link simply points out something that DHCP practitioners and several operators have known for some time; short leases don't quite work in reality. The answer to this requirement claims that besides PANA there is no other impact on the client, well I differ especially whenever mention of DHCP short leases is made (and it is made quite often) > > > The OS must be able to handle this IP address and config change > > > without disrupting applications above. If the temporary IP address > > > lease is presented to the OS for use by applications other > > than PANA, > > > and then shortly thereafter revoked, visible disruptions to > > > applications may occur as sockets are reset, applications which > > > received (or did not > > > receive) proper config information in the first DHCP lease may not > > > receive or be able to handle this config change without > > some timeouts, > > > etc. (think about what happens to some OSes when you try to > > move from > > > one subnet to another and receive a new DHCP lease). Bottom > > line, the > > > IP address to IP address and lease to lease transition has a lot of > > > potential for race conditions that could affect > > applications on the OS. > > > One way to mitigate this would be to not present the first > > DHCP lease > > > information to any application other than EAP, but of course this > > > likely requires OS changes. > > > > 1 and 2a have no problem. >=20 > That's an assertion to which you're entitled, but based on the > previously presented arguments I disagree. OSes are impacted, 1 is a > no-go, and 2 introduces unnecessary complexity on the BRAS. >=20 > > > > 2b requires the OS to hide the interface from applications. I > > worked on Solaris TCP/IP development. I know Solaris has a > > way to mark an interface hidden -- so that it does not appear > > to the applications that does not know it exists. I can see > > if other OSes have similar features. OSes which has this > > capability can also use 2b without impacting applications. >=20 > Not everyone runs Solaris... Your statement contradicts the answer the > PANA WG gave to this requirement, yet you don't admit so. Allow me to > quote "Yes Implementation does not require changes to the operating > system.=20 I gave Solaris as an example that I'm familiar with. We need to check other OSes if they support the same. If the same feature is available, it is usable this way. If not, it's still OK -- see Yoshi's response. Woj> A better thing would be to acknowledge that using PANA may require the use of a new DHCP stack on the client alongside it, thus is client impacting. > Open source implementation available.". The open source topic is > a red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to it, > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation. Do you see something in that implementation such that it shall not qualify as "open source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. Woj> I'll leave that to lawyers. My point was that one shouldn't use the "open source is here" argument when answering the requirement "Must be simple to implement ...", because you have no way of knowing whether people will choose the open source software or not. > > > IPAuth-14 Must allow for authentication and download of > > > subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned > > > PRESENTED ANSWER: Yes PANA requires an IP address be > > configured prior > > > to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP > > > address), but allows the "service IP address" be assigned after > > > authentication. > > > ISSUE: As discussed on the int-area thread, assigning IP addresses > > > (temporary ones) for authentication purposes and then changing them > > > does not fit the operational model of DSL, breaks the security > > > mechanisms used in the access network, > > > > Can you point to the text that we are breaking? >=20 > Please check the IETF70 SAVI BOF material. In the pre-PANA DHCP > short-lease case IP traffic will flow between the client and the BRAS > before authentication. This is enough to have broken a common L2 > security mechanism, or require changes on the DSLAMs/Access-Nodes. > Again, this requirement is not fulfilled by PANA without resorting to > mechanisms that are un-realistic (and most likely broken) Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you for the 2nd time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever problems you are seeing with the client being configured with an IP address before it is authenticated, how does it work with DHCPv6 given that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address before it initiates DHCPv6? Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement. Nowhere do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are strictly about the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements; take them as a cue on what's missing in PANA. Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client before authentication requires a significant change to the L2 security mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as BRAS changes, etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement here and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's what they're using today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement assumes that it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm saying that this is not ok. -Woj. Alper >=20 > -Woj. >=20 > > > > And also explain how DHCPv6 that runs with link-local IPv6 > > address is not a problem (by now I asked this question at > > least 3 times here and there -- no > > answer....) > > > > > and requires that the BRAS and client OS be resilient to > > on-the-fly IP > > > address changes. > > > > Already explained above. > > > > > Also possibly the DSLAM and > > > L2 aggregation switches. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Woj. > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > Subject: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:38:50 +0200 > > > > From: Alper Yegin > > > > To: > > > > CC: 'W. Mark Townsley' , 'Jari Arkko' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication > > > > Requirements as presented through a liaison letter on May > > 25, 2007, > > > > we > > > > > > > discussed the following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > > > > > > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > > > > > > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members > > present in the > > > > room. In order to make this an official WG consensus, we > > are running > > > > this by the WG via mailing list. > > > > > > > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the > > mailing list > > > > by > > > > > > > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > > > > > > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a > > liaison letter to > > > > DSLF based on this consensus. > > > > > > > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana at ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 07:28:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24EF-0007P5-DM; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:28:51 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24ED-0007P0-QB for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:28:49 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24ED-00079p-4S for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:28:49 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,152,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="565706" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 13:28:48 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBBCSmIn016616; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:28:48 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBBCSLms015195; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:28:46 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:28:32 +0100 Received: from Townsley-MacBook.local ([10.61.65.227]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:28:32 +0100 Message-ID: <475E826D.1020001@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:28:29 +0000 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subir Das Subject: Re: [Pana] Liaison letter cover References: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> <475D88DB.1010302@research.telcordia.com> In-Reply-To: <475D88DB.1010302@research.telcordia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 12:28:32.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[57BADBC0:01C83BF1] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3338; t=1197376128; x=1198240128; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Pana]=20Liaison=20letter=20cover |Sender:=20; bh=SwhL7hADc+5l6SSvPp8UbHYcALsBWt1De68H6lHqars=; b=vbcv/eruAaLap7HtUf9a+REkLlJV4MmGLT1XKFUlSZ2ACJ7ST9UgZqTm/t O4ULOe7Fd7NcL0NqSvw0OnPMlPEnQAJvb3fipetu/bvUFbMOgcYXWPiKHcDA t0LL6ZkJYv; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Subir Das wrote: > I thought your issues were answered. If not, please let the WG know it > once again. > It would be helpful if you stay focus on the current requirements not > w.r.t. the cost and > complexity since there are no such requirements yet. Woj does suffer from a deeper understanding of the requirements vs. precisely what was written and transmitted to the IETF. AFAIK, he's been at every DSL Forum meeting and a regular contributor for more than 4 years, so you might be able to learn a bit from him. - Mark > regards, > -Subir > > Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: >> Alper, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard consensus "about the applicability >> of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication >> requirements." Particulalry not with the issues I pointed >> out. >> This assesment is premature, and the text of the liaison is not in order >> and I call for it to be revised. >> Regards, >> Woj. >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] Sent: 10 December >>> 2007 02:12 >>> To: pana@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover >>> >>> >>> This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access) >>> Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on defining a >>> link-layer type independent network access authentication protocol. >>> WG has completed its work on specifying the PANA protocol and the >>> specification is now in the RFC editors queue for publication as a >>> proposed standard >>> (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). >>> >>> Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement to the >>> IETF requesting information about a protocol or work in the IETF >>> which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for subscriber >>> authentication in the context of the evolution of the DSL >>> architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has been >>> identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA from the >>> early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058 >>> (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific DSLF >>> requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at IETF70 in >>> Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the WG meeting as >>> well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the applicability of the >>> protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication requirements. >>> The PANA WG's analysis is attached to this letter. >>> >>> We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee to >>> review the suitability of PANA for addressing your requirements >>> especially in view of the fact that the protocol is now lined up to >>> be published as a proposed standard RFC by the IETF. If you have >>> further questions or need clarifications, please do not hesitate to >>> contact the PANA WG. >>> >>> >>> >>> IETF PANA WG Chairs >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pana mailing list >>> Pana@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pana mailing list >> Pana@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >> > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 07:53:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24cT-000424-Q9; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:53:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24cS-00041y-1l for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:53:52 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J24cO-0007b9-Og for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:53:52 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F ([212.150.94.30]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1J24cH1uwE-0007fo; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:53:48 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:53:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-index: Acg4sI0WK7qPBYFdShaDsjvWt2zZ8ACitUfwACzn9pA= In-reply-to: Message-Id: <0MKp8S-1J24cH1uwE-0007fo@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+GADA6f+hAqaRfcKwrad3MIrZK52rHISIWQmw C9pg15NCmimVwSfNhrD1oEihiGmGtyL55PoZhVljH3J6tkM3h6 8+mElzvK9b6kP5Oo65oJw== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org > BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns via RADIUS. What > dedicated mechanism are you referring to? > > Woj> There needs to be a dedicated mechanism is the one whereby some > software component on the BRAS needs to pick up info from the > sw-component "caching" circuit-id info, when PANA is ready, and shoot > off the result to AAA. There is already such code extracting the Option 82 content from DHCP message and "shooting off" to AAA with RADIUS, right? > All this coupling and coordination of components > is bad news for session bring up time, troubleshooting, etc. You need to substantiate such claims with technical points. Otherwise not sure what purpose such claims serve, especially repeating them... > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the added > > overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what impacts > > operations adversely. Based on my work with operational departments I > > can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this requirement and my > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again > > > PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver > > > the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > > triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > > message's Option 82 and verified. > > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to the > > network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network device, not > > the other way round. > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the BRAS learns > the > expected value (or values??) from AAA server during network access > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During DHCP, BRAS > learns > the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via DHCP. And BRAS does > the > comparison to see if they match. > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the AAA > response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the BRAS. This is > even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also requiring an > operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another requirement > actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! "Must re-use existing SP Authentication infrastructure (use Radius Database) ..." What we are talking about is carrying the already defined RADIUS attribute (the one used for transporting Option 82 payload) from AAA server to the client, as opposed to what's already done now: from AAA client to the server. This does not touch the RADIUS database at all. > > In any case, the local link address option is a non > > starter for IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. > > You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. > > Woj> A couple of non trivial issues: > - Show me any SP using it for anything in broadband? (Link local has > been defined for small networks) You need to point out a specific problem. Saying that it is not used so it shall never be used does not make any sense. > - Doesn't work in shared VLAN model where host-host L2 forwarding is > disabled (the conflict resolution mechanism doesn't work) Why not? So, you won't allow use of IPv6 link-locals either? If there are real problems how do you expect IPv6 to work at all? > - Requires more changes on Access node to enable forwarding Again, just a claim without any technical explanation is not useful for this discussion. > > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to > > the short DHCP leases are OS impacting. > > Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP server to > set > the lease time. > > Woj> But the client is affected, eg DHCP stack... The assessment claims > no such impact is there. You must have a different definition for "OS impacting." By no definition of "OS impacting" one would think that sending a different lifetime value in a variable field would impact the "operating system", or "protocol stack". > > Open source implementation available.". The open source topic is > > a red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to > it, > > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... > > www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation. Do you see > something in that implementation such that it shall not qualify as "open > source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. > > Woj> I'll leave that to lawyers. My point was that one shouldn't use the > "open source is here" argument when answering the requirement "Must be > simple to implement ...", because you have no way of knowing whether > people will choose the open source software or not. It's their decision. We are just providing them information. > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you for the 2nd > time > and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever problems you > are > seeing with the client being configured with an IP address before it is > authenticated, how does it work with DHCPv6 given that the client is > configured with IPv6 link-local address before it initiates DHCPv6? > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement. Nowhere Please stay away from making such judgments and personal comments on this mailing list. > do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are strictly about > the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements; take them as a cue on > what's missing in PANA. > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client before > authentication requires a significant change to the L2 security > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as BRAS changes, > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement here > and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's what they're using > today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement assumes that > it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm saying that this is not ok. Where does the requirement say "it is not OK"? We are going with the official DSLF requirements. I don't see a requirement like what you are saying. Rather than expressing your own requirements and your own interpretations, please seek DSLF to amend and expand the current requirements. That'd be more productive for all of us. Alper _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From Kazmaierhyycw@brics.DK Tue Dec 11 08:54:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J25ZC-0001tQ-Mx for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:54:34 -0500 Received: from anv209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.26.103.209]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J25ZA-00069u-54 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:54:34 -0500 Received: from plemnik-8jslwln ([151.136.139.196] helo=plemnik-8jslwln) by anv209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1NVJzO-000GAW-sQ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:53:40 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:53:24 +0100 From: "kimberlie Kazmaier" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: neppalfl Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed extended cumming means extended pleasure, sound good? http://bcbns.com/
From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 10:39:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27D9-00058i-Og; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:39:55 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27D8-00058c-6m for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:39:54 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27D6-0000Ax-PR for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:39:54 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,152,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="593942" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 16:39:49 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBBFdnTL020160; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:39:49 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBBFdVn0024186; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:43 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:39:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:39:38 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1J24cH1uwE-0007fo@mrelay.perfora.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg4sI0WK7qPBYFdShaDsjvWt2zZ8ACitUfwACzn9pAABfnCsA== References: <0MKp8S-1J24cH1uwE-0007fo@mrelay.perfora.net> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 15:39:43.0114 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CBE6EA0:01C83C0C] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=10792; t=1197387589; x=1198251589; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=SAQaFhpvc62aBzbPZzMEPRbCA/24MBBz3/bToVwMl38=; b=ARfOm1kQs91bhKLZ/ReT4ILMIzW0IydKlJ830UPR1XazPWTnSS/XLMSIAV nPk9egjTHSQXug6Uzeo/M68B3pIogn3D4lzHjXmdKbOoiocyVMwHfj2Qa/GL WLcd3riDPt; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org First off, am I correct in assuming that you agree with the other issues you chose not to comment on and that you will be taking action to amend the assessment on these points specifically: ---snip--- Woj> There is nothing diverging in saying that the way PANA claims to meet this requirement comes at a significant cost of complexity (to both a BRAS, and to an operator), which is what is failed to be considered; PANA has no way of carrying circuit-id info defined today, and requires an assorted tightly coupled mechanism to be in place to meet the requirement. Woj> Try this exercise. The requirement states: Must fit into TR-101 operational model. Read TR-101, draw an operational model and see what components come up. I assure you that things like managing pre-PANA pools, handling pre-PANA authentication failures, configuring PANA, dealing with link local addressing, etc, will not be there, nor will you find any operator currently managing this items. It doesn't take a wealth of knowledge to see that PANA is a new operational item, and the assessment presented is not correct. Woj> One of the problems in the assessment is that it appears to respond to different requirements with different PANA deployment models (there are at least three - 1, 2a and 2b). Since an operator will only use one of these, the assessment should clarify which one is assumed in each case.=20 ---snip--- and inline... > -----Original Message----- > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org]=20 > Sent: 11 December 2007 12:54 > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec); pana@ietf.org > Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); 'Jari Arkko' > Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > > BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns via RADIUS.=20 > > What dedicated mechanism are you referring to? > >=20 > > Woj> There needs to be a dedicated mechanism is the one whereby some > > software component on the BRAS needs to pick up info from the=20 > > sw-component "caching" circuit-id info, when PANA is ready,=20 > and shoot=20 > > off the result to AAA. >=20 > There is already such code extracting the Option 82 content=20 > from DHCP message and "shooting off" to AAA with RADIUS, right? Woj> Right, all in an atomic operation. >=20 > > All this coupling and coordination of components is bad news for=20 > > session bring up time, troubleshooting, etc. >=20 > You need to substantiate such claims with technical points.=20 > Otherwise not sure what purpose such claims serve, especially=20 > repeating them... Woj> I take it you're refusing to accept the fact that vendors experienced with building these products have concerns with what this technology involves.=20 >=20 > > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand,=20 > > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the=20 > > > added overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what=20 > > > impacts operations adversely. Based on my work with operational=20 > > > departments I can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this=20 > requirement and my=20 > > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then=20 > again PANA=20 > > > > triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver the=20 > > > > expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not=20 > triggered=20 > > > > during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP=20 > message's=20 > > > > Option 82 and verified. > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to=20 > > > the network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network=20 > > > device, not the other way round. > >=20 > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the=20 > BRAS learns=20 > > the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during=20 > network access=20 > > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During=20 > DHCP, BRAS=20 > > learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via=20 > DHCP. And=20 > > BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. > >=20 > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA > > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the=20 > > AAA response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the=20 > BRAS. This=20 > > is even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also=20 > requiring=20 > > an operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another=20 > > requirement actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! >=20 >=20 > "Must re-use existing SP Authentication infrastructure (use=20 > Radius Database) ..." >=20 > What we are talking about is carrying the already defined=20 > RADIUS attribute (the one used for transporting Option 82=20 > payload) from AAA server to the client, as opposed to what's=20 > already done now: from AAA client to the server. This does=20 > not touch the RADIUS database at all. Woj> I see that you have not bounced this off any operator running large scale Radius set-ups today? Sending a circuit-id in an access-accept requires at least a change to an existing Radius set-up, and in some cases the server code; servers don't just do this automatically today, nor is this done (or required) for ppp access. I won't even mention things like Radius proxies.=20 >=20 > > > In any case, the local link address option is a non starter for=20 > > > IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. > >=20 > > You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. > >=20 > > Woj> A couple of non trivial issues: > > - Show me any SP using it for anything in broadband? (Link=20 > local has=20 > > been defined for small networks) >=20 > You need to point out a specific problem. Saying that it is=20 > not used so it shall never be used does not make any sense. Woj> The fact that it is not used impacts the operational model, so it is a valid point. >=20 > > - Doesn't work in shared VLAN model where host-host L2=20 > forwarding is=20 > > disabled (the conflict resolution mechanism doesn't work) >=20 > Why not? So, you won't allow use of IPv6 link-locals either?=20 > If there are real problems how do you expect IPv6 to work at all? Woj> You're throwing the IPv6 mantra back at me, while I'm telling you that IPv4 link locals won't work in today's L2 access and aggregation set-ups, or require extensive changes to the security mechanisms.=20 >=20 > > - Requires more changes on Access node to enable forwarding >=20 > Again, just a claim without any technical explanation is not=20 > useful for this discussion. Woj> Perhaps you could illuminate us on how you envisage that an access-node that is configured NOT to pass any IP traffic before seeing a DHCP assignment will be able to forward local link IP sourced addresses to the BRAS? >=20 > > > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to the short DHCP=20 > leases are=20 > > > OS impacting. > >=20 > > Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP=20 > server to=20 > > set the lease time. > >=20 > > Woj> But the client is affected, eg DHCP stack... The assessment=20 > > Woj> claims > > no such impact is there. >=20 > You must have a different definition for "OS impacting." By=20 > no definition of "OS impacting" one would think that sending=20 > a different lifetime value in a variable field would impact=20 > the "operating system", or "protocol stack". Woj> Your point is in theory reasonable, unfortunately in practice (as I've been taking pains to point out) sending such a different lifetime value can prove to require DHCP protocol stack changes, besides a PANA stack to be added. Some call that OS impacting... >=20 > > > Open source implementation available.". The open source=20 > topic is a=20 > > > red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to > > it, > > > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... > >=20 > > www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation.=20 > Do you see=20 > > something in that implementation such that it shall not qualify as=20 > > "open source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. > >=20 > > Woj> I'll leave that to lawyers. My point was that one=20 > shouldn't use=20 > > Woj> the > > "open source is here" argument when answering the=20 > requirement "Must be=20 > > simple to implement ...", because you have no way of=20 > knowing whether=20 > > people will choose the open source software or not. >=20 > It's their decision. We are just providing them information. >=20 > > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you=20 > for the 2nd=20 > > time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever=20 > > problems you are seeing with the client being configured with an IP=20 > > address before it is authenticated, how does it work with=20 > DHCPv6 given=20 > > that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address=20 > before it=20 > > initiates DHCPv6? > >=20 > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is > > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement.=20 > > Nowhere >=20 > Please stay away from making such judgments and personal=20 > comments on this mailing list. Woj> Somehow this has not what stopped you from making a judgment about me and DHCP-auth supporters... >=20 > > do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are strictly=20 > > about the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements;=20 > take them as=20 > > a cue on what's missing in PANA. > > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client=20 > > before authentication requires a significant change to the=20 > L2 security=20 > > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as=20 > BRAS changes,=20 > > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement=20 > > here and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's=20 > what they're=20 > > using today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement=20 > > assumes that it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm=20 > saying that this is not ok. >=20 > Where does the requirement say "it is not OK"?=20 > We are going with the official DSLF requirements. I don't see=20 > a requirement like what you are saying. Rather than=20 > expressing your own requirements and your own=20 > interpretations, please seek DSLF to amend and expand the=20 > current requirements. That'd be more productive for all of us. Woj> We sure will. The whole >=20 > Alper >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 11:03:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27a3-0005Kr-Tv; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27a2-0005Io-FV for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:34 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27a1-0000mh-Tp for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:34 -0500 Received: from mailee.research.telcordia.com (mailee [192.4.16.29]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lBBG3VQ4024287; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.96.58.250] (vpntnlA250 [128.96.58.250]) by mailee.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06937; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <475EB4D4.8040209@research.telcordia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:03:32 -0500 From: Subir Das User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Townsley Subject: Re: [Pana] Liaison letter cover References: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> <475D88DB.1010302@research.telcordia.com> <475E826D.1020001@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <475E826D.1020001@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 Cc: Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org That' good and I think we need folks who understand DSLF requirements better. Thanks Woj. However, what I find is that we are bringing other aspects time to time as it fits. Other aspects may be important too but that should be identified and listed as requirements. We are now comparing PANA w.r.t. the listed technical requirements and we should continue to do that. If additional requirements come, I think it is time for IETF to call for proposals and then the proposals should be evaluated by a technical committee. After all, if DSLF needs an IETF protocol, we should do it correctly even if it has some impacts on their operations. regards, -Subir Mark Townsley wrote: > Subir Das wrote: >> I thought your issues were answered. If not, please let the WG know >> it once again. >> It would be helpful if you stay focus on the current requirements not >> w.r.t. the cost and >> complexity since there are no such requirements yet. > Woj does suffer from a deeper understanding of the requirements vs. > precisely what was written and transmitted to the IETF. AFAIK, he's > been at every DSL Forum meeting and a regular contributor for more > than 4 years, so you might be able to learn a bit from him. > > - Mark >> regards, >> -Subir >> >> Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: >>> Alper, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard consensus "about the >>> applicability >>> of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication >>> requirements." Particulalry not with the issues I pointed >>> out. >>> This assesment is premature, and the text of the liaison is not in >>> order >>> and I call for it to be revised. >>> Regards, >>> Woj. >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] Sent: 10 December >>>> 2007 02:12 >>>> To: pana@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover >>>> >>>> >>>> This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access) >>>> Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on defining a >>>> link-layer type independent network access authentication protocol. >>>> WG has completed its work on specifying the PANA protocol and the >>>> specification is now in the RFC editors queue for publication as a >>>> proposed standard >>>> (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). >>>> >>>> Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement to >>>> the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work in the >>>> IETF which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for subscriber >>>> authentication in the context of the evolution of the DSL >>>> architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has been >>>> identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA from the >>>> early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058 >>>> (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific DSLF >>>> requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at IETF70 in >>>> Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the WG meeting as >>>> well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the applicability of the >>>> protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication >>>> requirements. The PANA WG's analysis is attached to this letter. >>>> >>>> We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee to >>>> review the suitability of PANA for addressing your requirements >>>> especially in view of the fact that the protocol is now lined up to >>>> be published as a proposed standard RFC by the IETF. If you have >>>> further questions or need clarifications, please do not hesitate to >>>> contact the PANA WG. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IETF PANA WG Chairs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pana mailing list >>>> Pana@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pana mailing list >>> Pana@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana >>> >> _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 11:50:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28JK-00035h-1q; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:50:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28JI-00034t-3N for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:50:20 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28JH-0004Ll-2n for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:50:20 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,153,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="603762" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 17:50:18 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBBGoIln013392; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:50:18 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBBGo6n0019978; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:50:16 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:50:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Liaison letter cover Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:49:56 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <475EB4D4.8040209@research.telcordia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Liaison letter cover Thread-Index: Acg8D2prOjDEOUwxShK3uB2ZEcV0TwABUjVw References: <0MKp8S-1J1XBm0pVm-0006Nm@mrelay.perfora.net> <475D88DB.1010302@research.telcordia.com> <475E826D.1020001@cisco.com> <475EB4D4.8040209@research.telcordia.com> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Subir Das" , "Mark Townsley (townsley)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 16:50:02.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFF5B220:01C83C15] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5417; t=1197391818; x=1198255818; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Liaison=20letter=20cover |Sender:=20; bh=9o2kY9IUivFlT7oBBpBI0416sRoGJnCNSfjR5DNBDFE=; b=N0xn5APvIPMMD3AqV0b+MVMNbOoTLvxIDmLRSVlCKpT/HuV29yvcWkhula OIAoDy5t+wcc8ACw2Tf8xLP2TcVq4NYmzFEpY9fFNK4ouPCr611YrWMuMc39 QFEJA0jL3V; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 Cc: Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Subir, a couple of points; - the DSLF requirements are not purely technical, they are also operational. - the issues in the assessment I have pointed out specifically concern the requirements already there and what their spirit of reason is. Some of them assume a certain common sense interpretation, eg Technically a proposal that sees carrier pigeons sent by the subscriber to the BRAS operator that types in commands could also be seen as meeting many (all?) of the requirements, but is this reasonable operationally and reasonable to propose? (and this one would support IPv6) -Woj. > -----Original Message----- > From: Subir Das [mailto:subir@research.telcordia.com]=20 > Sent: 11 December 2007 16:04 > To: Mark Townsley (townsley) > Cc: Wojciech Dec (wdec); Alper Yegin; pana@ietf.org; Jari Arkko > Subject: Re: [Pana] Liaison letter cover >=20 > That' good and I think we need folks who understand DSLF=20 > requirements better. Thanks Woj. However, what I find is that=20 > we are bringing other aspects time to time as it fits.=20 > Other aspects may be important too but that should be=20 > identified and listed as requirements. We are now comparing =20 > PANA w.r.t. the listed technical requirements and we should=20 > continue to do that. If additional requirements come, I think=20 > it is time for IETF to call for proposals and then the=20 > proposals should be evaluated by a technical committee.=20 > After all, if DSLF needs an IETF protocol, we should do it=20 > correctly even if it has some impacts on their operations.=20 >=20 > regards, > -Subir >=20 > Mark Townsley wrote: > > Subir Das wrote: > >> I thought your issues were answered. If not, please let=20 > the WG know=20 > >> it once again. > >> It would be helpful if you stay focus on the current=20 > requirements not=20 > >> w.r.t. the cost and complexity since there are no such=20 > requirements=20 > >> yet. > > Woj does suffer from a deeper understanding of the requirements vs.=20 > > precisely what was written and transmitted to the IETF. AFAIK, he's=20 > > been at every DSL Forum meeting and a regular contributor for more=20 > > than 4 years, so you might be able to learn a bit from him. > > > > - Mark > >> regards, > >> -Subir > >> > >> Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: > >>> Alper, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard consensus "about the=20 > >>> applicability of the protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber=20 > >>> authentication requirements." Particulalry not with the issues I=20 > >>> pointed out. > >>> This assesment is premature, and the text of the liaison=20 > is not in=20 > >>> order and I call for it to be revised. > >>> Regards, > >>> Woj. > >>> > >>> =20 > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] Sent:=20 > 10 December > >>>> 2007 02:12 > >>>> To: pana@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: [Pana] Liaison letter cover > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This is the cover letter text to precede the PANA analysis. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for=20 > Network Access)=20 > >>>> Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on defining a=20 > >>>> link-layer type independent network access=20 > authentication protocol. > >>>> WG has completed its work on specifying the PANA=20 > protocol and the=20 > >>>> specification is now in the RFC editors queue for=20 > publication as a=20 > >>>> proposed standard=20 > >>>> (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). > >>>> > >>>> Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement to=20 > >>>> the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work in the=20 > >>>> IETF which would meet the DSL Forum's requirements for=20 > subscriber=20 > >>>> authentication in the context of the evolution of the DSL=20 > >>>> architecture. DSL Forum's migration away from PPP has been=20 > >>>> identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA from the=20 > >>>> early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058=20 > >>>> (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the=20 > specific DSLF=20 > >>>> requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at IETF70 in=20 > >>>> Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007). There was consensus at the WG=20 > meeting as=20 > >>>> well as on the PANA WG mailing list about the=20 > applicability of the=20 > >>>> protocol for the DSL Forum's subscriber authentication=20 > >>>> requirements. The PANA WG's analysis is attached to this letter. > >>>> > >>>> We would like to request the DSL Forum's technical committee to=20 > >>>> review the suitability of PANA for addressing your requirements=20 > >>>> especially in view of the fact that the protocol is now=20 > lined up to=20 > >>>> be published as a proposed standard RFC by the IETF. If=20 > you have=20 > >>>> further questions or need clarifications, please do not=20 > hesitate to=20 > >>>> contact the PANA WG. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> IETF PANA WG Chairs > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pana mailing list > >>>> Pana@ietf.org > >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pana mailing list > >>> Pana@ietf.org > >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana > >>> =20 > >> >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 14:05:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2APt-0003c2-6Z; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2APr-0003Zz-6Q for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:15 -0500 Received: from mgw.toshibaamericaresearch.com ([165.254.55.12] helo=toshi17.tari.toshiba.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2APq-0005TS-3v for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:14 -0500 Received: from steelhead.localdomain (tarij-98.tari.toshiba.com [172.30.24.201] (may be forged)) by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBBJ5BiJ092868; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from yohba@tari.toshiba.com) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J2APo-0005KM-I4; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:05:12 -0500 To: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Message-ID: <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 12:56:29PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: (snip) > > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the added > > overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what impacts > > operations adversely. Based on my work with operational departments I > > can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this requirement and my > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then again > > > PANA triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver > > > the expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > > triggered during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > > message's Option 82 and verified. > > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to the > > network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network device, not > > the other way round. > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the BRAS learns > the > expected value (or values??) from AAA server during network access > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During DHCP, BRAS > learns > the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via DHCP. And BRAS does > the > comparison to see if they match. > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the AAA > response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the BRAS. This is > even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also requiring an > operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another requirement > actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! I agree that some mechanism to carry circuit-id in PANA message would be needed when DHCP is not used for obtaining a pre-PANA address, in order to avoid any change to existing RADIUS implementations. We (PANA WG) can certainly work on a mechanism to carry a circuite-id in PANA-Client-Initiation (PCI) message if needed. That's not a big deal than adding a mechanism to carry EAP over DHCP in terms of IETF specification work. On the other hand, there are also other PANA use cases in which DHCP is used for obtaining a pre-PANA address. In such cases, I don't think any change to existing RADIUS implementations is needed. So overall, I think the current assessment is still valid. (snip) > > > Finally, this link actually reveals the truth about the unsuitability > of > > DHCP-short leases on at least one popular OS platform (other > > implementations deriving from RFC 1541 are likely to have similar > > issues): > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158016 > > It's talking specifically about "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service". Is > complying with "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service" deployment guidelines > part of DSLF requirements? Can you figure out the technical essence, > necessity of what they are saying? They even say "Additionally, a DHCP > Administrator may want to assign a shorter lease time to scopes with low > ratios of available addresses. Setting the lease time shorter in both > these > cases will increase the availability of addresses." > > Woj> The above link simply points out something that DHCP practitioners > and several operators have known for some time; short leases don't quite > work in reality. The answer to this requirement claims that besides PANA > there is no other impact on the client, well I differ especially > whenever mention of DHCP short leases is made (and it is made quite > often) More information is available on the short lease with Windoes DHCP server: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261964 "After a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client lease expires, it is not immediately scavenged from the database." This means Windows DHCP server is slow to update the database (and hence short lease is not recommended). On the other hand, I could not interprete the text to indicate all DHCP servers on any OS have the same issue and/or Windows DHCP clients do not work with short lease. (snip) > > > > Please check the IETF70 SAVI BOF material. In the pre-PANA DHCP > > short-lease case IP traffic will flow between the client and the BRAS > > before authentication. This is enough to have broken a common L2 > > security mechanism, or require changes on the DSLAMs/Access-Nodes. > > Again, this requirement is not fulfilled by PANA without resorting to > > mechanisms that are un-realistic (and most likely broken) > > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you for the 2nd > time > and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever problems you > are > seeing with the client being configured with an IP address before it is > authenticated, how does it work with DHCPv6 given that the client is > configured with IPv6 link-local address before it initiates DHCPv6? > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement. Nowhere > do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are strictly about > the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements; take them as a cue on > what's missing in PANA. > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client before > authentication requires a significant change to the L2 security > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as BRAS changes, > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement here > and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's what they're using > today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement assumes that > it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm saying that this is not ok. I don't really understand why configuraing IPv6 link-local address before authentication will satisfy DSLF requirements while configuraing IPv4 address before authentication won't. Can you please explain? Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From JeannetteconstantConklin@thefutureschannel.com Tue Dec 11 14:32:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2AqP-0001E2-36 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:32:41 -0500 Received: from ndk128.emirates.net.ae ([86.96.76.128] helo=computer2007) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2AqL-00065t-Pm for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:32:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host86888687.thefutureschannel.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id O7TMZ5jk77.942051.vtu.Jns.3804717328344 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:28:44 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Della Conklin" To: Subject: Your health Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:28:44 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_BAB6_01C83C80.5F3701A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_BAB6_01C83C80.5F3701A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_BAB6_01C83C80.5F3701A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_BAB6_01C83C80.5F3701A0-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 14:46:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2B3y-0005nC-PP; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:46:42 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2B3x-0005mu-6J for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:46:41 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2B3w-0006WC-2k for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:46:41 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,154,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="618826" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 20:46:37 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBBJkbQL024410; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:46:37 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBBJkVmg016834; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:46:36 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:46:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:46:14 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg8KMXIxYb52gnmQVagF9kyLcBhBAABDkBg References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 19:46:32.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[87C5ABA0:01C83C2E] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7961; t=1197402397; x=1198266397; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=2LdG1l/5M3BR6oTFc4ZkH9RTS6M6PinBOpDsPw1rd4M=; b=ht390f1/861G/CoBf8uzeitwoGEQ9tkTHCMYu/+asvNPnw6B6/oXTj2aCS KcGok+GLEc81N71JnU2mHICszKHRIWeAVOdprpera/3WvyTf5mnxvskuHU9L WbGpd59syE; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com]=20 > Sent: 11 December 2007 19:05 > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec) > Cc: Alper Yegin; pana@ietf.org; Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko > Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 12:56:29PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: > (snip) > >=20 > > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand,=20 > > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the=20 > > > added overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what=20 > > > impacts operations adversely. Based on my work with operational=20 > > > departments I can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this=20 > requirement and my=20 > > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then=20 > again PANA=20 > > > > triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver the=20 > > > > expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not=20 > triggered=20 > > > > during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP=20 > message's=20 > > > > Option 82 and verified. > > >=20 > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to=20 > > > the network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network=20 > > > device, not the other way round. > >=20 > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the=20 > BRAS learns=20 > > the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during=20 > network access=20 > > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During=20 > DHCP, BRAS=20 > > learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via=20 > DHCP. And=20 > > BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. > >=20 > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA > > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the=20 > > AAA response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the=20 > BRAS. This=20 > > is even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also=20 > requiring=20 > > an operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another=20 > > requirement actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! >=20 > I agree that some mechanism to carry circuit-id in PANA=20 > message would be needed when DHCP is not used for obtaining a=20 > pre-PANA address, in order to avoid any change to existing=20 > RADIUS implementations. We (PANA WG) can certainly work on a=20 > mechanism to carry a circuite-id in PANA-Client-Initiation=20 > (PCI) message if needed. That's not a big deal than adding a=20 > mechanism to carry EAP over DHCP in terms of IETF specification work. >=20 > On the other hand, there are also other PANA use cases in=20 > which DHCP is used for obtaining a pre-PANA address. In such=20 > cases, I don't think any change to existing RADIUS=20 > implementations is needed. So overall, I think the current=20 > assessment is still valid. The issue is that an operator will deploy one mode of PANA or the other, not both. The assement should indicate which one is assumed for the answers. The other issue, as in my previous mails, is that if this extra coupling of DHCP-PANA-AAA state is assumed then it complicates BRAS implementations and more significantly operations. >=20 > (snip) > >=20 > > > Finally, this link actually reveals the truth about the=20 > > > unsuitability > > of > > > DHCP-short leases on at least one popular OS platform (other=20 > > > implementations deriving from RFC 1541 are likely to have similar > > > issues): > > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158016 > >=20 > > It's talking specifically about "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP=20 > Service".=20 > > Is complying with "Microsoft Windows NT DHCP Service" deployment=20 > > guidelines part of DSLF requirements? Can you figure out=20 > the technical=20 > > essence, necessity of what they are saying? They even say=20 > > "Additionally, a DHCP Administrator may want to assign a=20 > shorter lease=20 > > time to scopes with low ratios of available addresses. Setting the=20 > > lease time shorter in both these cases will increase the=20 > availability=20 > > of addresses." > >=20 > > Woj> The above link simply points out something that DHCP=20 > > Woj> practitioners > > and several operators have known for some time; short leases don't=20 > > quite work in reality. The answer to this requirement claims that=20 > > besides PANA there is no other impact on the client, well I differ=20 > > especially whenever mention of DHCP short leases is made (and it is=20 > > made quite > > often) >=20 > More information is available on the short lease with Windoes DHCP > server: >=20 > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261964 >=20 > "After a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client=20 > lease expires, it is not immediately scavenged from the=20 > database." This means Windows DHCP server is slow to update=20 > the database (and hence short lease is not recommended). On=20 > the other hand, I could not interprete the text to indicate=20 > all DHCP servers on any OS have the same issue and/or Windows=20 > DHCP clients do not work with short lease. Woj> Let's say that this is a grey area. My previous feedback from operators has highlighted that this is an issue. That said unless the PANA WG can claim with 100% accuracy that it's not an issue, the assement is not accurate. >=20 > (snip) >=20 > > >=20 > > > Please check the IETF70 SAVI BOF material. In the pre-PANA DHCP=20 > > > short-lease case IP traffic will flow between the client and the=20 > > > BRAS before authentication. This is enough to have broken=20 > a common=20 > > > L2 security mechanism, or require changes on the=20 > DSLAMs/Access-Nodes. > > > Again, this requirement is not fulfilled by PANA without=20 > resorting=20 > > > to mechanisms that are un-realistic (and most likely broken) > >=20 > > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you=20 > for the 2nd=20 > > time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever=20 > > problems you are seeing with the client being configured with an IP=20 > > address before it is authenticated, how does it work with=20 > DHCPv6 given=20 > > that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address=20 > before it=20 > > initiates DHCPv6? > >=20 > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is > > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement.=20 > > Nowhere do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are=20 > > strictly about the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF=20 > Requirements; take=20 > > them as a cue on what's missing in PANA. > > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client=20 > > before authentication requires a significant change to the=20 > L2 security=20 > > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as=20 > BRAS changes,=20 > > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement=20 > > here and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's=20 > what they're=20 > > using today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement=20 > > assumes that it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm=20 > saying that this is not ok. >=20 > I don't really understand why configuraing IPv6 link-local=20 > address before authentication will satisfy DSLF requirements=20 > while configuraing IPv4 address before authentication won't. =20 > Can you please explain? Woj> I'm specifically not addressing IPv6, because how IPv6 should actually be deployed in broadband is a grey area for me. I can count on one hand the # of operators I know who have done so, and amongst these there are differences.=20 >=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 16:12:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2COx-0005EB-AK; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:12:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2COv-0005E5-EN for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:12:25 -0500 Received: from [2001:418:1403:0:212:17ff:fe52:7811] (helo=toshi17.tari.toshiba.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2COu-00023v-WA for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:12:25 -0500 Received: from steelhead.localdomain (tarij-98.tari.toshiba.com [172.30.24.201] (may be forged)) by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBBLBsN0093500; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:11:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from yohba@tari.toshiba.com) Received: from ohba by steelhead.localdomain with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J2COP-0005Yr-Os; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:11:53 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:11:53 -0500 To: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Message-ID: <20071211211153.GC19155@steelhead.localdomain> References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Yoshihiro Ohba , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:46:14PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: (snip) > > > > I agree that some mechanism to carry circuit-id in PANA > > message would be needed when DHCP is not used for obtaining a > > pre-PANA address, in order to avoid any change to existing > > RADIUS implementations. We (PANA WG) can certainly work on a > > mechanism to carry a circuite-id in PANA-Client-Initiation > > (PCI) message if needed. That's not a big deal than adding a > > mechanism to carry EAP over DHCP in terms of IETF specification work. > > > > On the other hand, there are also other PANA use cases in > > which DHCP is used for obtaining a pre-PANA address. In such > > cases, I don't think any change to existing RADIUS > > implementations is needed. So overall, I think the current > > assessment is still valid. > > The issue is that an operator will deploy one mode of PANA or the other, > not both. The assement should indicate which one is assumed for the > answers. I think at this moment it is hard for PANA WG to determine/suggest which use case should be used for DSL (more requirements are expected to recommend one). But we can certainly include detailed assessment (like above) if that helps DLSF to understand the assesment better. > The other issue, as in my previous mails, is that if this extra > coupling of DHCP-PANA-AAA state is assumed then it complicates BRAS > implementations and more significantly operations. As I expressed previously, I don't agree with this issue since there is no written requirement on BRAS complexity. > > > > More information is available on the short lease with Windoes DHCP > > server: > > > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261964 > > > > "After a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client > > lease expires, it is not immediately scavenged from the > > database." This means Windows DHCP server is slow to update > > the database (and hence short lease is not recommended). On > > the other hand, I could not interprete the text to indicate > > all DHCP servers on any OS have the same issue and/or Windows > > DHCP clients do not work with short lease. > > Woj> Let's say that this is a grey area. My previous feedback from > operators has highlighted that this is an issue. That said unless the > PANA WG can claim with 100% accuracy that it's not an issue, the > assement is not accurate. I don't really see an issue unless operators are clear about what the exact issue on existing DHCP client with short lease. > > > > I don't really understand why configuraing IPv6 link-local > > address before authentication will satisfy DSLF requirements > > while configuraing IPv4 address before authentication won't. > > Can you please explain? > > Woj> I'm specifically not addressing IPv6, because how IPv6 should > actually be deployed in broadband is a grey area for me. I can count on > one hand the # of operators I know who have done so, and amongst these > there are differences. Given that IPv6 needs to be considered according to IPAuth-11, I don't see an issue on assigning an IP address before authentication. For the same reason, assigning an IP address before authentication should not be an issue even for DHCP authentication for IPv6. Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 17:06:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DEu-0006GX-6U; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:06:08 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DEs-0006GR-KJ for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:06:06 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DEr-0001qo-9y for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:06:06 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F ([212.150.94.30]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1J2DEg2v5j-0002yi; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:06:01 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:05:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-index: Acg4sI0WK7qPBYFdShaDsjvWt2zZ8ACitUfwACzn9pAABfnCsAANSo3A In-reply-to: Message-Id: <0MKpCa-1J2DEg2v5j-0002yi@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19U/bZCdEmstRWJ//QPceM4HHNXq8RO6WR0onj WVMlUmCXHJQosfmwEwlVh36HaqPKQkvaxUWMwfvsMO4r/pLgcE vwUy0u5GlobE/2g6aMkhQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org > First off, am I correct in assuming that you agree with the other issues > you chose not to comment on No I don't. And I had already responded to those issues. > and that you will be taking action to amend > the assessment on these points specifically: > > ---snip--- > > Woj> There is nothing diverging in saying that the way PANA claims to > meet this requirement comes at a significant cost of complexity (to both > a BRAS, and to an operator), which is what is failed to be considered; > PANA has no way of carrying circuit-id info defined today, and requires > an assorted tightly coupled mechanism to be in place to meet the > requirement. > > Woj> Try this exercise. The requirement states: Must fit into TR-101 > operational model. Read TR-101, draw an operational model and see what > components come up. I assure you that things like managing pre-PANA > pools, handling pre-PANA authentication failures, configuring PANA, > dealing with link local addressing, etc, will not be there, nor will you > find any operator currently managing this items. It doesn't take a > wealth of knowledge to see that PANA is a new operational item, and the > assessment presented is not correct. > > Woj> One of the problems in the assessment is that it appears to respond > to different requirements with different PANA deployment models (there > are at least three - 1, 2a and 2b). Since an operator will only use one > of these, the assessment should clarify which one is assumed in each > case. The point of enumeration was to show there exists solutions to the problem you claimed. Both 1 and 2b being practical and applicable to all requirements as explained, I don't see a need to do anything else. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] > > Sent: 11 December 2007 12:54 > > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec); pana@ietf.org > > Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); 'Jari Arkko' > > Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > > > BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns via RADIUS. > > > What dedicated mechanism are you referring to? > > > > > > Woj> There needs to be a dedicated mechanism is the one whereby some > > > software component on the BRAS needs to pick up info from the > > > sw-component "caching" circuit-id info, when PANA is ready, > > and shoot > > > off the result to AAA. > > > > There is already such code extracting the Option 82 content > > from DHCP message and "shooting off" to AAA with RADIUS, right? > > Woj> Right, all in an atomic operation. > > > > > > All this coupling and coordination of components is bad news for > > > session bring up time, troubleshooting, etc. > > > > You need to substantiate such claims with technical points. > > Otherwise not sure what purpose such claims serve, especially > > repeating them... > > Woj> I take it you're refusing to accept the fact that vendors > experienced with building these products have concerns with what this > technology involves. We certainly followed up on their input on the int-area list and I had already said that we did that and I had even given this link: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg01129.html > > > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to understand, > > > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism, besides the > > > > added overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is what > > > > impacts operations adversely. Based on my work with operational > > > > departments I can say that this mix is enough to dissuade many. > > > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this > > requirement and my > > > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then > > again PANA > > > > > triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver the > > > > > expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > triggered > > > > > during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > message's > > > > > Option 82 and verified. > > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected Option-82 to > > > > the network"? AAA expects to hear that value from the network > > > > device, not the other way round. > > > > > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the > > BRAS learns > > > the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during > > network access > > > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During > > DHCP, BRAS > > > learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via > > DHCP. And > > > BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. > > > > > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first trip to the AAA > > > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in the > > > AAA response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the > > BRAS. This > > > is even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also > > requiring > > > an operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another > > > requirement actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! > > > > > > "Must re-use existing SP Authentication infrastructure (use > > Radius Database) ..." > > > > What we are talking about is carrying the already defined > > RADIUS attribute (the one used for transporting Option 82 > > payload) from AAA server to the client, as opposed to what's > > already done now: from AAA client to the server. This does > > not touch the RADIUS database at all. > > Woj> I see that you have not bounced this off any operator running large > scale Radius set-ups today? Sending a circuit-id in an access-accept > requires at least a change to an existing Radius set-up, and in some > cases the server code; servers don't just do this automatically today, > nor is this done (or required) for ppp access. I won't even mention > things like Radius proxies. You seem to be talking about "not even a single line of code change." So once again, you seem to have more requirements in your mind than what the requirements read. If you convince DSLF that the requirements shall be amended in such a way, then you should do that. Once we get such requirements from DSLF, we make an attempt at responding to them. > > > > In any case, the local link address option is a non starter for > > > > IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. > > > > > > You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. > > > > > > Woj> A couple of non trivial issues: > > > - Show me any SP using it for anything in broadband? (Link > > local has > > > been defined for small networks) > > > > You need to point out a specific problem. Saying that it is > > not used so it shall never be used does not make any sense. > > Woj> The fact that it is not used impacts the operational model, so it > is a valid point. > > > > > > - Doesn't work in shared VLAN model where host-host L2 > > forwarding is > > > disabled (the conflict resolution mechanism doesn't work) > > > > Why not? So, you won't allow use of IPv6 link-locals either? > > If there are real problems how do you expect IPv6 to work at all? > > Woj> You're throwing the IPv6 mantra back at me, while I'm telling you > that IPv4 link locals won't work in today's L2 access and aggregation > set-ups, or require extensive changes to the security mechanisms. Telling us? You should be explaining the "why" part..... We cannot be going with your assessment without seeing the technical explanation. > > > - Requires more changes on Access node to enable forwarding > > > > Again, just a claim without any technical explanation is not > > useful for this discussion. > > Woj> Perhaps you could illuminate us on how you envisage that an > access-node that is configured NOT to pass any IP traffic before seeing > a DHCP assignment will be able to forward local link IP sourced > addresses to the BRAS? Once again...... as explained earlier on the int-area list...... this appears to be reconfiguration of filters to allow PANA in addition to DHCP. > > > > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to the short DHCP > > leases are > > > > OS impacting. > > > > > > Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP > > server to > > > set the lease time. > > > > > > Woj> But the client is affected, eg DHCP stack... The assessment > > > Woj> claims > > > no such impact is there. > > > > You must have a different definition for "OS impacting." By > > no definition of "OS impacting" one would think that sending > > a different lifetime value in a variable field would impact > > the "operating system", or "protocol stack". > > Woj> Your point is in theory reasonable, unfortunately in practice (as > I've been taking pains to point out) sending such a different lifetime > value can prove to require DHCP protocol stack changes, I find it impossible to believe that you need a different DHCP stack because now your DHCP client is getting a short lease. > besides a PANA > stack to be added. Some call that OS impacting... As iterated many times on the int-area list, PANA can be added as 3rd party software. It does not have to impact the OS. > > > > Open source implementation available.". The open source > > topic is a > > > > red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are attached to > > > it, > > > > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... > > > > > > www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation. > > Do you see > > > something in that implementation such that it shall not qualify as > > > "open source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. > > > > > > Woj> I'll leave that to lawyers. My point was that one > > shouldn't use > > > Woj> the > > > "open source is here" argument when answering the > > requirement "Must be > > > simple to implement ...", because you have no way of > > knowing whether > > > people will choose the open source software or not. > > > > It's their decision. We are just providing them information. > > > > > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you > > for the 2nd > > > time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever > > > problems you are seeing with the client being configured with an IP > > > address before it is authenticated, how does it work with > > DHCPv6 given > > > that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address > > before it > > > initiates DHCPv6? > > > > > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with DHCP-Auth that is > > > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement. > > > Nowhere > > > > Please stay away from making such judgments and personal > > comments on this mailing list. > > Woj> Somehow this has not what stopped you from making a judgment about > me and DHCP-auth supporters... > > > > > > do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments are strictly > > > about the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements; > > take them as > > > a cue on what's missing in PANA. > > > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on the client > > > before authentication requires a significant change to the > > L2 security > > > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as > > BRAS changes, > > > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4 statement > > > here and if you look at the vast majority of SPs, that's > > what they're > > > using today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement > > > assumes that it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm > > saying that this is not ok. > > > > Where does the requirement say "it is not OK"? > > We are going with the official DSLF requirements. I don't see > > a requirement like what you are saying. Rather than > > expressing your own requirements and your own > > interpretations, please seek DSLF to amend and expand the > > current requirements. That'd be more productive for all of us. > > Woj> We sure will. The whole Alper _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 17:56:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2E1x-0001ml-62; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:56:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2E1w-0001mb-QA for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:56:48 -0500 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2E1w-0003J8-Eh for pana@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:56:48 -0500 Received: from [192.4.8.160] (adutta-laptop.research.telcordia.com [192.4.8.160]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lBBMuVFf015394; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:56:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <475F159D.7040604@research.telcordia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:56:29 -0500 From: Ashutosh Dutta User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alper Yegin Subject: Re: [Pana] DSLF Requirement analysis References: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1J05hW48ZA-0006H7@mrelay.perfora.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: "'W. Mark Townsley'" , 'Jari Arkko' , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Alper, I could not attend IETF meeting at Vancouver this time. However, I went over the PANA analysis slides that you sent covering DSLF Subscriber Auth Requirement. I agree that it would be a good idea to start the process of communicating with DSLF forum by providing them with this analysis and seek if they have any more requirement that needs to be looked at. Regards Ashutosh Alper Yegin wrote: > > In the spirit of analyzing the DSLF's Subscriber Authentication Requirements > as presented through a liaison letter on May 25, 2007, we discussed the > following material during IETF 70 PANA WG meeting. > > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/pana-3.ppt > > We have reached consensus among the PANA WG members present in the room. In > order to make this an official WG consensus, we are running this by the WG > via mailing list. > > If you have any feedback, please send an e-mail on the mailing list by > December 11, 2007 Tuesday 6pm PT. > > If there is no objection, IETF PANA WG will send a liaison letter to DSLF > based on this consensus. > > - IETF PANA WG Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pana mailing list > Pana@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From BenjaminembankBarnes@woodbury.com Tue Dec 11 20:22:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GIY-0000on-E0 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:22:06 -0500 Received: from [190.42.194.171] (helo=waltercito) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GIX-0007Eo-UO for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:22:06 -0500 Received: from dilogarithm by woodbury.com with SMTP id zqoKYRcKUT for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:21:09 +0500 From: "Wayne Richardson" To: Subject: We pay you to play. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Our safe, secure games will get you smiling when you start seeing dollars pouring in. Free money free fun. We have it all! Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. http://eurocasinoag.com/ From MontehumbleCombs@onintelligence.org Wed Dec 12 00:20:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2K0m-0005WJ-Ok for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:20:00 -0500 Received: from c-24-245-14-169.hsd1.mn.comcast.net ([24.245.14.169] helo=desktop.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2K0m-0005Jd-FN for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:20:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host20365388.onintelligence.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jVZ7Eg3f98.730812.bkm.oHp.1158978361177 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:18:46 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Grover Short" To: Subject: Your life Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:18:46 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_CE89_01C83C7E.9BFA09E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_CE89_01C83C7E.9BFA09E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_CE89_01C83C7E.9BFA09E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_CE89_01C83C7E.9BFA09E0-- From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 04:16:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Nhl-0007Wz-LZ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:16:37 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Nhk-0007Ws-8h for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:16:36 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Nhi-00022G-GE for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:16:36 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,156,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="658780" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 10:16:33 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBC9GXJr003245; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:16:33 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBC9GXmc011547; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:16:33 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:16:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:16:21 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0MKpCa-1J2DEg2v5j-0002yi@mrelay.perfora.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg4sI0WK7qPBYFdShaDsjvWt2zZ8ACitUfwACzn9pAABfnCsAANSo3AABhJODA= References: <0MKpCa-1J2DEg2v5j-0002yi@mrelay.perfora.net> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 09:16:33.0210 (UTC) FILETIME=[B01B39A0:01C83C9F] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=15060; t=1197450993; x=1198314993; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=W8LB9sr2nAg3ki2hICddj5AFjsonBwfZo8SDEi3Rf/g=; b=vmoIfKiZm9DUo/c2heT3PLEkRcEs/dSL72u6s39V4WIhJeS+mWV9lLYG0N m51Yd5WxOmTXQc2HkxF/gnF6w1HklYmYPd1eyfAiU+Lpu9tGYA++dT/o7DzS anidXaas8/; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f460acdc4aacf7fc5e6f9bd32f8fd8c6 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org]=20 > Sent: 11 December 2007 22:06 > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec); pana@ietf.org > Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); 'Jari Arkko' > Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > > First off, am I correct in assuming that you agree with the other=20 > > issues you chose not to comment on >=20 > No I don't. And I had already responded to those issues. >=20 You haven't > > and that you will be taking action to amend the assessment on these=20 > > points specifically: > >=20 > > ---snip--- > >=20 > > Woj> There is nothing diverging in saying that the way PANA=20 > claims to > > meet this requirement comes at a significant cost of complexity (to=20 > > both a BRAS, and to an operator), which is what is failed to be=20 > > considered; PANA has no way of carrying circuit-id info=20 > defined today,=20 > > and requires an assorted tightly coupled mechanism to be in=20 > place to=20 > > meet the requirement. > >=20 > > Woj> Try this exercise. The requirement states: Must fit into TR-101 > > operational model. Read TR-101, draw an operational model=20 > and see what=20 > > components come up. I assure you that things like managing pre-PANA=20 > > pools, handling pre-PANA authentication failures, configuring PANA,=20 > > dealing with link local addressing, etc, will not be there,=20 > nor will=20 > > you find any operator currently managing this items. It=20 > doesn't take a=20 > > wealth of knowledge to see that PANA is a new operational item, and=20 > > the assessment presented is not correct. > >=20 > > Woj> One of the problems in the assessment is that it appears to=20 > > Woj> respond > > to different requirements with different PANA deployment=20 > models (there=20 > > are at least three - 1, 2a and 2b). Since an operator will only use=20 > > one of these, the assessment should clarify which one is assumed in=20 > > each case. >=20 > The point of enumeration was to show there exists solutions=20 > to the problem you claimed. Both 1 and 2b being practical and=20 > applicable to all requirements as explained, I don't see a=20 > need to do anything else. Practical in your mind, and during the course of this discussion it's become increasingly evident that there's been very poor guidance in how DSL operators deploy their networks, and the practical problems in them, and the mechanisms already in place on the network elements. You've also chosen to ignore BRAS vendor concerns. >=20 >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper.yegin@yegin.org] > > > Sent: 11 December 2007 12:54 > > > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec); pana@ietf.org > > > Cc: Mark Townsley (townsley); 'Jari Arkko' > > > Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis > > > > > > > BRAS learns the Option 82 via DHCP and Home AAA learns=20 > via RADIUS. > > > > What dedicated mechanism are you referring to? > > > > > > > > Woj> There needs to be a dedicated mechanism is the one whereby=20 > > > > Woj> some > > > > software component on the BRAS needs to pick up info from the=20 > > > > sw-component "caching" circuit-id info, when PANA is ready, > > > and shoot > > > > off the result to AAA. > > > > > > There is already such code extracting the Option 82 content from=20 > > > DHCP message and "shooting off" to AAA with RADIUS, right? > >=20 > > Woj> Right, all in an atomic operation. > >=20 > > > > > > > All this coupling and coordination of components is bad=20 > news for=20 > > > > session bring up time, troubleshooting, etc. > > > > > > You need to substantiate such claims with technical points. > > > Otherwise not sure what purpose such claims serve, especially=20 > > > repeating them... > >=20 > > Woj> I take it you're refusing to accept the fact that vendors > > experienced with building these products have concerns with=20 > what this=20 > > technology involves. >=20 > We certainly followed up on their input on the int-area list=20 > and I had already said that we did that and I had even given=20 > this link: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg01129.html If you're referring to the statement "And yes your observation is correct, the DHCP auth solution with EAP has the same issues" you're missing the point, I'm talking about a PANA solution specifically and the statement is that it will be difficult to acheive the same scale and performormance. It also affects the widely deployed access-nodes (have you ever tried configuring a dynamic PANA filter on an access-node??) >=20 > > > > > Furthermore the need for an operator to be able to=20 > understand,=20 > > > > > configure, maintain and troubleshoot this mechanism,=20 > besides the=20 > > > > > added overhead of having to use the extra pre-PANA pools, is=20 > > > > > what impacts operations adversely. Based on my work with=20 > > > > > operational departments I can say that this mix is=20 > enough to dissuade many. > > > > > I do not agree that PANA currently satisfies this > > > requirement and my > > > > > ISSUE with the assessment still stands. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the pre-PANA address is a link-local address, then > > > again PANA > > > > > > triggers the RADIUS call. And this time AAA can deliver the=20 > > > > > > expected Option 82 value to the network. RADIUS is not > > > triggered > > > > > > during the DHCP that follows PANA. > > > > > > The expected value is checked against the incoming DHCP > > > message's > > > > > > Option 82 and verified. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "AAA delivers the expected=20 > Option-82=20 > > > > > to the network"? AAA expects to hear that value from=20 > the network=20 > > > > > device, not the other way round. > > > > > > > > Let me be a bit more elaborate on that. AAA client on the > > > BRAS learns > > > > the expected value (or values??) from AAA server during > > > network access > > > > authentication. DHCP follows access authentication. During > > > DHCP, BRAS > > > > learns the used value from network device (DSLAM, etc.) via > > > DHCP. And > > > > BRAS does the comparison to see if they match. > > > > > > > > Woj> This is indeed very novel. So in fact the first=20 > trip to the=20 > > > > Woj> AAA > > > > server triggered by PANA delivers the circuit-id to the BRAS in=20 > > > > the AAA response. Then DHCP triggers local Authorization at the > > > BRAS. This > > > > is even more tight coupling of mechanism in evidence, also > > > requiring > > > > an operator to make changes to Radius. The answer to another=20 > > > > requirement actually claims that no Radius changes are needed! > > > > > > > > > "Must re-use existing SP Authentication infrastructure=20 > (use Radius=20 > > > Database) ..." > > > > > > What we are talking about is carrying the already defined RADIUS=20 > > > attribute (the one used for transporting Option 82 > > > payload) from AAA server to the client, as opposed to=20 > what's already=20 > > > done now: from AAA client to the server. This does not touch the=20 > > > RADIUS database at all. > >=20 > > Woj> I see that you have not bounced this off any operator running=20 > > Woj> large > > scale Radius set-ups today? Sending a circuit-id in an=20 > access-accept=20 > > requires at least a change to an existing Radius set-up,=20 > and in some=20 > > cases the server code; servers don't just do this=20 > automatically today,=20 > > nor is this done (or required) for ppp access. I won't even mention=20 > > things like Radius proxies. >=20 > You seem to be talking about "not even a single line of code=20 > change." So once again, you seem to have more requirements in=20 > your mind than what the requirements read. If you convince=20 > DSLF that the requirements shall be amended in such a way,=20 > then you should do that. Once we get such requirements from=20 > DSLF, we make an attempt at responding to them. >=20 > > > > > In any case, the local link address option is a non=20 > starter for=20 > > > > > IPv4. PANA does not satisfy this requirement. > > > > > > > > You should explain why IPv4 link-local is a non-starter. > > > > > > > > Woj> A couple of non trivial issues: > > > > - Show me any SP using it for anything in broadband? (Link > > > local has > > > > been defined for small networks) > > > > > > You need to point out a specific problem. Saying that it=20 > is not used=20 > > > so it shall never be used does not make any sense. > >=20 > > Woj> The fact that it is not used impacts the operational=20 > model, so it > > is a valid point. > >=20 > > > > > > > - Doesn't work in shared VLAN model where host-host L2 > > > forwarding is > > > > disabled (the conflict resolution mechanism doesn't work) > > > > > > Why not? So, you won't allow use of IPv6 link-locals either? > > > If there are real problems how do you expect IPv6 to work at all? > >=20 > > Woj> You're throwing the IPv6 mantra back at me, while I'm=20 > telling you > > that IPv4 link locals won't work in today's L2 access and=20 > aggregation=20 > > set-ups, or require extensive changes to the security mechanisms. >=20 > Telling us? You should be explaining the "why" part..... We=20 > cannot be going with your assessment without seeing the=20 > technical explanation.=20 IPv4 is still around, that's what I'm telling you. That's technical fact #1. Fact #2, look at SAVI which describes the source guard mechanism used today - your assement makes no mention of the assumption that such a mechanism needs to be either revised, or dual addressing pools (and short leases) be used. >=20 > > > > - Requires more changes on Access node to enable forwarding > > > > > > Again, just a claim without any technical explanation is=20 > not useful=20 > > > for this discussion. > >=20 > > Woj> Perhaps you could illuminate us on how you envisage that an > > access-node that is configured NOT to pass any IP traffic before=20 > > seeing a DHCP assignment will be able to forward local link=20 > IP sourced=20 > > addresses to the BRAS? >=20 > Once again...... as explained earlier on the int-area=20 > list...... this appears to be reconfiguration of filters to=20 > allow PANA in addition to DHCP. And as explained earlier, your assessment makes no mention of this assumption and which PANA mode it applies to. >=20 > > > > > And all of 2, as mentioned earlier, due to the short DHCP > > > leases are > > > > > OS impacting. > > > > > > > > Nothing to do with the OS. It's a configuration on the DHCP > > > server to > > > > set the lease time. > > > > > > > > Woj> But the client is affected, eg DHCP stack... The=20 > assessment=20 > > > > Woj> claims > > > > no such impact is there. > > > > > > You must have a different definition for "OS impacting." By no=20 > > > definition of "OS impacting" one would think that sending a=20 > > > different lifetime value in a variable field would impact the=20 > > > "operating system", or "protocol stack". > >=20 > > Woj> Your point is in theory reasonable, unfortunately in=20 > practice (as > > I've been taking pains to point out) sending such a=20 > different lifetime=20 > > value can prove to require DHCP protocol stack changes, >=20 > I find it impossible to believe that you need a different=20 > DHCP stack because now your DHCP client is getting a short lease.=20 Where is your proof? Practice has shown something different. And again, your assessment makes absolutely no mention of this assumption. >=20 > > besides a PANA > > stack to be added. Some call that OS impacting... >=20 > As iterated many times on the int-area list, PANA can be=20 > added as 3rd party software. It does not have to impact the OS. >=20 > > > > > Open source implementation available.". The open source > > > topic is a > > > > > red herring, as it all depends on what conditions are=20 > attached=20 > > > > > to > > > > it, > > > > > and the policy of the implementers for using open source... > > > > > > > > www.opendiameter.org Project includes PANA implementation. > > > Do you see > > > > something in that implementation such that it shall not=20 > qualify as=20 > > > > "open source"? If so, we can reconsider making such a statement. > > > > > > > > Woj> I'll leave that to lawyers. My point was that one > > > shouldn't use > > > > Woj> the > > > > "open source is here" argument when answering the > > > requirement "Must be > > > > simple to implement ...", because you have no way of > > > knowing whether > > > > people will choose the open source software or not. > > > > > > It's their decision. We are just providing them information. > > > > > > > Can you, please, answer this question that I'm asking you > > > for the 2nd > > > > time and other DHCP-auth supporters for the 4th time: Whatever=20 > > > > problems you are seeing with the client being=20 > configured with an=20 > > > > IP address before it is authenticated, how does it work with > > > DHCPv6 given > > > > that the client is configured with IPv6 link-local address > > > before it > > > > initiates DHCPv6? > > > > > > > > Woj> You seem to have a personal obsession with=20 > DHCP-Auth that is > > > > clouding your judgment, and seemingly the assessment statement. > > > > Nowhere > > > > > > Please stay away from making such judgments and personal=20 > comments on=20 > > > this mailing list. > >=20 > > Woj> Somehow this has not what stopped you from making a judgment=20 > > Woj> about > > me and DHCP-auth supporters... > >=20 > > > > > > > do I mention DHCP-Auth in this thread and my comments=20 > are strictly=20 > > > > about the PANA WG's assessment of the DSLF Requirements; > > > take them as > > > > a cue on what's missing in PANA. > > > > Regarding your question: Configuring an IP address on=20 > the client=20 > > > > before authentication requires a significant change to the > > > L2 security > > > > mechanisms utilized today by operators today, as well as > > > BRAS changes, > > > > etc. Have a look at SAVI. I'm making a very specific IPv4=20 > > > > statement here and if you look at the vast majority of=20 > SPs, that's > > > what they're > > > > using today. The assessment of the PANA WG for this requirement=20 > > > > assumes that it's ok to configure such IP addresses. I'm > > > saying that this is not ok. > > > > > > Where does the requirement say "it is not OK"? > > > We are going with the official DSLF requirements. I don't see a=20 > > > requirement like what you are saying. Rather than expressing your=20 > > > own requirements and your own interpretations, please=20 > seek DSLF to=20 > > > amend and expand the current requirements. That'd be more=20 > productive=20 > > > for all of us. > >=20 > > Woj> We sure will. The whole >=20 > Alper >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 04:46:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2OAp-0003f2-Gp; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:46:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2OAo-0003ex-JX for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:46:38 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2OAn-0002cb-IQ for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:46:38 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,156,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="663264" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 10:46:36 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBC9kaEw015773; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:46:36 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBC9kDn2024593; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:46:27 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33b.cisco.com ([144.254.231.86]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:46:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:46:19 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20071211211153.GC19155@steelhead.localdomain> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Thread-Index: Acg8OnvwAjXjSNuMQdKpGxOTBAIQ+AAZ0ZBA References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211211153.GC19155@steelhead.localdomain> From: "Wojciech Dec (wdec)" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 09:46:24.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB828900:01C83CA3] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4794; t=1197452796; x=1198316796; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wdec@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wojciech=20Dec=20(wdec)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=Q4LAWyRAbPCgQPQr6I2KaZ9fsBEg0tHtg4Ocqe+4Ixg=; b=lXc42+5y00K1Z+/wfcKxTuEUEXyet7KmTKakTrhtU3Dyf7YqltmsvHcUo8 PfqNUipZ8yF4NLshVXMn6oyzzBVIEg79s4z39XihAVDNMreUJGUWo2/hvHTp ICwMBGUL2X; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=wdec@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Cc: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com]=20 > Sent: 11 December 2007 21:12 > To: Wojciech Dec (wdec) > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; Mark Townsley (townsley); Jari Arkko;=20 > pana@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis >=20 > On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:46:14PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: > (snip) > > >=20 > > > I agree that some mechanism to carry circuit-id in PANA message=20 > > > would be needed when DHCP is not used for obtaining a pre-PANA=20 > > > address, in order to avoid any change to existing RADIUS=20 > > > implementations. We (PANA WG) can certainly work on a=20 > mechanism to=20 > > > carry a circuite-id in PANA-Client-Initiation > > > (PCI) message if needed. That's not a big deal than adding a=20 > > > mechanism to carry EAP over DHCP in terms of IETF=20 > specification work. > > >=20 > > > On the other hand, there are also other PANA use cases in=20 > which DHCP=20 > > > is used for obtaining a pre-PANA address. In such cases, I don't=20 > > > think any change to existing RADIUS implementations is=20 > needed. So=20 > > > overall, I think the current assessment is still valid. > >=20 > > The issue is that an operator will deploy one mode of PANA or the=20 > > other, not both. The assement should indicate which one is=20 > assumed for=20 > > the answers. >=20 > I think at this moment it is hard for PANA WG to=20 > determine/suggest which use case should be used for DSL (more=20 > requirements are expected to recommend one). But we can=20 > certainly include detailed assessment (like above) if that=20 > helps DLSF to understand the assesment better. This would be certainly helpful. >=20 > > The other issue, as in my previous mails, is that if this extra=20 > > coupling of DHCP-PANA-AAA state is assumed then it complicates BRAS=20 > > implementations and more significantly operations. >=20 > As I expressed previously, I don't agree with this issue=20 > since there is no written requirement on BRAS complexity. >=20 The thing is that the PANA usage models require not only more complex BRAS mechanisms (at least), but also affect the SP's operations. The assessment carries no mention of this. > > >=20 > > > More information is available on the short lease with Windoes DHCP > > > server: > > >=20 > > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261964 > > >=20 > > > "After a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client lease=20 > > > expires, it is not immediately scavenged from the=20 > database." This=20 > > > means Windows DHCP server is slow to update the database=20 > (and hence=20 > > > short lease is not recommended). On the other hand, I could not=20 > > > interprete the text to indicate all DHCP servers on any=20 > OS have the=20 > > > same issue and/or Windows DHCP clients do not work with=20 > short lease. > >=20 > > Woj> Let's say that this is a grey area. My previous feedback from > > operators has highlighted that this is an issue. That said=20 > unless the=20 > > PANA WG can claim with 100% accuracy that it's not an issue, the=20 > > assement is not accurate. >=20 > I don't really see an issue unless operators are clear about=20 > what the exact issue on existing DHCP client with short lease. >=20 >From a vendor perspective, we tried it and we're not going there again following customer feedback. > > >=20 > > > I don't really understand why configuraing IPv6=20 > link-local address=20 > > > before authentication will satisfy DSLF requirements while=20 > > > configuraing IPv4 address before authentication won't. > > > Can you please explain? > >=20 > > Woj> I'm specifically not addressing IPv6, because how IPv6 should > > actually be deployed in broadband is a grey area for me. I=20 > can count=20 > > on one hand the # of operators I know who have done so, and amongst=20 > > these there are differences. >=20 > Given that IPv6 needs to be considered according to=20 > IPAuth-11, I don't see an issue on assigning an IP address=20 > before authentication. For the same reason, assigning an IP=20 > address before authentication should not be an issue even for=20 > DHCP authentication for IPv6. >=20 This is a bit of a conundrum composed of; - Widely deployed IPv4 security mechanisms rely on DHCP assignement of the address before any L2 communication is enabled. This eliminates the local-link address PANA usage model and forces the pre-PANA address pools (short leases and all) - Short leases force the use of dedicated pools, and their management, besides extra operational and device complexity (to say the least) None of these facts seem to have been considered in the assessment.=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 05:57:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2PHP-0006mu-VF; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:57:31 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2PHN-0006m2-GL for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:57:29 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2PHM-0004XQ-OO for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:57:29 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,156,1196636400"; d="scan'208";a="673702" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 11:57:28 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBCAvSNa009119; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:57:28 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBCAvFmi025334; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:57:19 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:57:19 +0100 Received: from Townsley-MacBook.local ([10.61.81.86]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:57:18 +0100 Message-ID: <475FBE8B.5060700@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:57:15 +0000 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis References: <20071207090643.GK12533@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211190512.GB19155@steelhead.localdomain> <20071211211153.GC19155@steelhead.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20071211211153.GC19155@steelhead.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 10:57:18.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3857010:01C83CAD] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3865; t=1197457048; x=1198321048; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Pana]=20Re=3A=20DSLF=20Requirement=20a nalysis |Sender:=20; bh=07jGDMwcWY0YD7NsY2JCQkLRjPbTa/1t6eCY6xREbWA=; b=eEQhSbFt3TZWTeHHMQX7AJpYn9O8xqvM0Z3W3WwBjuZz5Rk1VjTOEWUiJ5 VbJ+pWb9U/vgSq8zQOht0eJUccjekFFrwngh1a1hDEpoOc2/9a8YZ1HqV8C+ syiA0QJaFR; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: Jari Arkko , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Yoshihiro Ohba wrote: > On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:46:14PM +0100, Wojciech Dec (wdec) wrote: > (snip) > >>> I agree that some mechanism to carry circuit-id in PANA >>> message would be needed when DHCP is not used for obtaining a >>> pre-PANA address, in order to avoid any change to existing >>> RADIUS implementations. We (PANA WG) can certainly work on a >>> mechanism to carry a circuite-id in PANA-Client-Initiation >>> (PCI) message if needed. That's not a big deal than adding a >>> mechanism to carry EAP over DHCP in terms of IETF specification work. >>> >>> On the other hand, there are also other PANA use cases in >>> which DHCP is used for obtaining a pre-PANA address. In such >>> cases, I don't think any change to existing RADIUS >>> implementations is needed. So overall, I think the current >>> assessment is still valid. >>> >> The issue is that an operator will deploy one mode of PANA or the other, >> not both. The assement should indicate which one is assumed for the >> answers. >> > > I think at this moment it is hard for PANA WG to determine/suggest > which use case should be used for DSL (more requirements are expected > to recommend one). But we can certainly include detailed assessment > (like above) if that helps DLSF to understand the assesment better. > > >> The other issue, as in my previous mails, is that if this extra >> coupling of DHCP-PANA-AAA state is assumed then it complicates BRAS >> implementations and more significantly operations. >> > > As I expressed previously, I don't agree with this issue since there > is no written requirement on BRAS complexity. > > >>> More information is available on the short lease with Windoes DHCP >>> server: >>> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/261964 >>> >>> "After a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client >>> lease expires, it is not immediately scavenged from the >>> database." This means Windows DHCP server is slow to update >>> the database (and hence short lease is not recommended). On >>> the other hand, I could not interprete the text to indicate >>> all DHCP servers on any OS have the same issue and/or Windows >>> DHCP clients do not work with short lease. >>> >> Woj> Let's say that this is a grey area. My previous feedback from >> operators has highlighted that this is an issue. That said unless the >> PANA WG can claim with 100% accuracy that it's not an issue, the >> assement is not accurate. >> > > I don't really see an issue unless operators are clear about what > the exact issue on existing DHCP client with short lease. > > >>> I don't really understand why configuraing IPv6 link-local >>> address before authentication will satisfy DSLF requirements >>> while configuraing IPv4 address before authentication won't. >>> Can you please explain? >>> >> Woj> I'm specifically not addressing IPv6, because how IPv6 should >> actually be deployed in broadband is a grey area for me. I can count on >> one hand the # of operators I know who have done so, and amongst these >> there are differences. >> > > Given that IPv6 needs to be considered according to IPAuth-11, I don't > see an issue on assigning an IP address before authentication. For > the same reason, assigning an IP address before authentication should > not be an issue even for DHCP authentication for IPv6. > Yoshi, you're right that it is unclear what the operational issues are with respect to IPv6. This has not been addressed well by the DSL Forum, internally or externally. Authentication before IP assignment, route and filter installation for IPv4 is well-understood in the DSL community, but it seems like it needs to be better communicated to the IETF. - Mark > Yoshihiro Ohba > > _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 07:13:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QSh-0003W1-Ij; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:13:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QSg-0003Vj-SP for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:13:14 -0500 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QSf-00071M-PE for pana@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:13:14 -0500 Received: from IBM52A5038A94F ([212.150.94.30]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1J2QSW15tt-0007dk; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:13:12 -0500 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Wojciech Dec \(wdec\)'" , "'Yoshihiro Ohba'" Subject: RE: [Pana] Re: DSLF Requirement analysis Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:12:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-index: Acg8OnvwAjXjSNuMQdKpGxOTBAIQ+AAZ0ZBAAAVYEcA= In-reply-to: Message-Id: <0MKp8S-1J2QSW15tt-0007dk@mrelay.perfora.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19oXea6Srzq36q+R18xzBalSYWI+RoCDcFbXvI EoeMfncI4Wejw5qJaakfkRaWq4W0Euc6Bzo4ycQYwzByTQa7lU +6FUYwQuPG6auClDXAClg== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: "'Mark Townsley \(townsley\)'" , 'Jari Arkko' , pana@ietf.org X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Wojciech, As majority of the WG is OK with the assessment, we are going with that now. Significant amount of your disagreements seem to stem from unstated requirements, as multiple people already stated on the ML. If you are convinced about those additional requirements, it is best if you get DSLF to agree including them in the next revision of the requirement set. That'd be the most productive approach. Until than, we'll go with what is stated in the official DSLF liaison with respect to the requirements. Anyway this is just the beginning of information exchange between IETF PANA WG and DSLF. Further two-way communication between the two is welcome and even expected. Alper _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From pana-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 07:20:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QZi-0008L5-IN; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:20:30 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QZh-0008Kz-8a; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:20:29 -0500 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QZg-00082l-Fl; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:20:29 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51692328CF; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:20:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2QZg-0004UP-4X; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:20:28 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: gyoung@dslforum.org From: Alper Yegin (IETF PANA WG) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:20:28 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: townsley@cisco.com, jari.arkko@piuha.net, basavaraj.patil@nsn.com, pana@ietf.org Subject: [Pana] New Liaison Statement, "Information about PANA as an applicable protocol for subscriber authentication in DSL networks" X-BeenThere: pana@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pana@ietf.org List-Id: Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: pana-bounces@ietf.org Title: Information about PANA as an applicable protocol for subscriber authentication in DSL networks Submission Date: 2007-12-12 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=387 From: Alper Yegin(IETF PANA WG) To: DSL Forum(gyoung@dslforum.org) Cc: pana@ietf.org basavaraj.patil@nsn.com jari.arkko@piuha.net townsley@cisco.com Reponse Contact: alper.yegin@yegin.org basavaraj.patil@nsn.com Technical Contact: alper.yegin@yegin.org basavaraj.patil@nsn.com Purpose: For information Body: IETF PANA working Group liaison to: Gavin Young, DSL Forum Technical Committee Chair gyoung@dslforum.org From: Alper Yegin, IETF PANA WG co-chair, alper.yegin@yegin.org Basavaraj Patil, ITEF PANA WG co-chair, basavaraj.patil@nsn.com Date: December 12, 2007 Subject: Information about PANA as an applicable protocol for subscriber authentication in DSL networks Dear Gavin, The PANA (Protocol for carrying Authentication for Network Access) Working Group in the IETF is chartered to work on defining a link-layer type independent network access authentication protocol. WG has completed its work on specifying the PANA protocol and the specification is now in the RFC editors queue for publication as a proposed standard (http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pana-pana-18.txt). Earlier this year, the DSL Forum had sent a liaison statement to the IETF requesting information about a protocol or work in the IETF which would meet the DSL Forum’s requirements for subscriber authentication in the context of the evolution of the DSL architecture. DSL Forum’s migration away from PPP has been identified as one of the candidate deployments for PANA from the early days of the WG as documented in RFC 4058 (http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc4058.txt). Additionally, the specific DSLF requirements were discussed at the PANA WG meeting at IETF70 in Vancouver (Dec 5, 2007) and on the PANA WG mailing list afterwards. WG believes that PANA is applicable to the current requirements presented by DSLF. The PANA WG’s analysis is presented below. We would like to request the DSL Forum’s technical committee to review the suitability of PANA for addressing your requirements especially in view of the fact that the protocol is now lined up to be published as a proposed standard RFC by the IETF. If you have further questions or need clarifications, please do not hesitate to contact the PANA WG. Sincerely, Alper Yegin (PANA WG co-chair) Basavaraj Patil (PANA WG co-chair) IPAuth-1: Authentication must not depend on the use of any given application, eg web browser. Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA implementation does not rely on other applications. IPAuth-2: Must re-use existing SP Authentication infrastructure (use Radius Database) and allow mixed mode operation (eg PPP and IP) on the same L3 edge device Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA does not require any changes on the AAA database. It can be used over IP networks that co-exist with PPP networks. IPAuth-3: Must offer L3 edge device (BRAS) subscriber policy enforcement via pull and push methods, ie L3 edge must be aware of authentication status and any subscriber credentials Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA Authentication Agent (PAA) can be implemented on the BRAS, or elsewhere. IPAuth-4: Must allow for authorization purposes the use of any additional identifiers that may be available, eg MAC address, Option82 circuit-id. Compliance: Yes Explanation: MAC address is already available on the IP messages that carry PANA. PANA does not prevent use of Option 82 with DHCP. IPAuth-5: Should allow for subscriber nomadicity and support tracking of changes to location. Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA allows establishing a new session or maintaining the same session upon mobility/nomadicity. IPAuth-6: Must fit into TR-101 operational model Compliance: Explanation: Although we do not see any issues there, IETF does not have the expertise to fully evaluate this requirement. IPAuth-7: Must support revoking authentication Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA Termination message is explicitly designed for that purpose. IPAuth-8: Must handle L3 CPE device authentication and end-device (PC) user based authentication (likely with L2 CPEs in the latter case) Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA Client (PaC) can be implemented on both CPEs and end-devices. IPAuth-9: Should be simple to implement on client (PC or CPE) Copliance: Yes Explanation: Implementation does not require changes to the operating system. Open source implementation available. IPAuth-10: Must be independent of medium type (eg Fixed Ethernet, Legacy ATM, PON, WiFi, WiMax, etc) Compliance: Yes Explanation: This is the original design goal of PANA. IPAuth-11: Must not require major re-work for IPv6. None ideally. Compliance: Yes Explanation: Same protocol can be used for both IPv4 and IPv6. IPAuth-12: Must be resilient to attacks on the subscriber, eg against brute-force challenge attacks, or spoofing of an authenticator edge device Compliance: Yes Explanation: Rate limiting, message validation, message authentication are used against such threats. IPAuth-13: Must offer authenticator edge device resiliency, eg not be prone to DOS authentication attacks Compliance: Yes Explanation: Stateless handshake and rate limiting are used against such threats. IPAuth-14: Must allow for authentication and download of subscriber service profile before service IP address is assigned Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA requires an IP address be configured prior to authentication (a IPv4/IPv6 link-local, or a short-lease DHCP address), but allows the “service IP address” be assigned after authentication. IPAuth-15: Must offer an option to re-authenticate periodically or on demand. Compliance: Yes Explanation: Both the client-side and network-side are capable of initiating re-authentication. IPAuth-16: At an absolute minimum, must provide equivalent or better security than PPP CHAP/MD5 does today. Must include the ability to move to more secure authentication methods over time. Compliance: Yes Explanation: Supports any EAP method (including CHAP/MD5 equivalent of EAP-MD5). IPAuth-17: Should offer authentication fail/success reason message to subscriber from authenticator . Compliance: Yes Explanation: Supports explicit authentication and authorization result codes (extensible). IPAuth-18: Must allow for multiple authenticated subscribers on same physical or logical interface. Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA Session-ID can demultiplex multiple authenticated sessions over the same physical/logical interface. IPAuth-19: Must offer scalable subscriber management, eg not rely on subscriber credentials configured on the authenticator Edge Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA is independent of any backend protocol (RADIUS, Diameter, LDAP, etc.) that may or may not be used by the authenticator edge. IPAuth-20: Must have a logical path towards standardization Compliance: Yes Explanation: PANA specification is already approved by IESG and currently in IETF RFC queue. IPAuth-21: Must scale to 10000s of subscribers per L3 edge device (ie must be conservative in use of resources) Compliance: Yes Explanation: See PANA Session Attributes in the spec. Attachment(s): No document has been attached _______________________________________________ Pana mailing list Pana@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pana From PaulopposableJackson@nicolascollins.com Wed Dec 12 12:31:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2VQc-00036l-2t for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:31:26 -0500 Received: from 82-34-231-201.fibertel.com.ar ([201.231.34.82] helo=825mb) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2VQb-0003QZ-F5 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:31:25 -0500 Received: from pale by nicolascollins.com with SMTP id X3zcBJfdBf for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:29:25 -0100 From: "John Garcia" To: Subject: Relax and have fun with blackjack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 If you're in the US or anywhere else, join your new casino paradise. Free money free fun. Our safe, secure games will get you smiling when you start seeing dollars pouring in. We have it all! http://eurocasinoag.com/ From jw@francour.com Wed Dec 12 13:26:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2WI3-0006js-Ud; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:26:39 -0500 Received: from 178-165-20-190.adsl.terra.cl ([190.20.165.178] helo=themachine) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2WI2-0005rs-Oi; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:26:39 -0500 Received: from [190.20.165.178] by mx00.1and1.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:30:31 -0400 Message-ID: <01c83ccb$8c4ddd80$b2a514be@jw> From: "wLyons" To: Subject: Hey Sexy Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:30:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Hey Baby I saw your profile online Maybe we can chat today? email me at Cave@GloryLandUsa.info and I will reply with a Picture and info right away. From JavierchorusHansen@sensorswitch.com Wed Dec 12 14:23:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2XBJ-0001ne-RW for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:23:45 -0500 Received: from [82.131.215.77] (helo=te) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2XBJ-00010D-9d for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:23:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host02330421.sensorswitch.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id VMPGbLAl28.612998.CVr.5QE.6967720507516 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:18:07 -0100 Message-ID: <192ef01c83cf4$8b7d7180$0852fea9@te> From: "Jamie Fernandez" To: Subject: Your family Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:18:07 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_192EB_01C83CF4.8B7D7180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_192EB_01C83CF4.8B7D7180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_192EB_01C83CF4.8B7D7180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_192EB_01C83CF4.8B7D7180-- From CarminefoliageSpence@befrienders.org Thu Dec 13 11:43:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2r9W-0003AG-7c; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:43:14 -0500 Received: from cpc2-shet2-0-0-cust663.renf.cable.ntl.com ([81.101.54.152] helo=049781720062) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2r9V-0001Z1-Io; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:43:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host49096846.befrienders.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id xGYtayQ891.613620.75O.vHx.1850183056010 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:42:50 +0000 Message-ID: <8a1c01c83da7$3edaf970$98366551@049781720062> From: "Chadwick Cervantes" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_8A18_01C83DA7.3EDAF970-- From landaaszsgaq@p4e.ca Thu Dec 13 13:33:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ssZ-0006js-SY for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:33:51 -0500 Received: from [189.13.55.127] (helo=18912075130.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ssZ-0004m3-5K for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:33:51 -0500 Received: from ok-0852123d3299 ([117.177.74.156] helo=ok-0852123d3299) by 18912075235.user.veloxzone.com.br ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1MNWUR-000EDF-AQ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:34:25 -0300 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:33:52 -0300 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "marlie landaas" Subject: alussur0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 you can bump ugly all night when you take virility pills http://magillin.com/ From JamiehereafterMontes@letargets.com Thu Dec 13 14:34:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2tpV-00059F-UX; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:34:46 -0500 Received: from 236.red-88-8-21.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([88.8.21.236] helo=desktop.local.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2tpT-0006RW-U2; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:34:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host20020626.letargets.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id cQ45E4tW37.577339.okM.bNZ.9040677788053 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:34:15 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Leslie Butts" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_DA0C_01C83DBF.34C62D70-- From LesterjudithRiley@familygivingtree.org Thu Dec 13 23:19:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J321K-0005CP-F2; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:19:30 -0500 Received: from eu85-84-220-30.clientes.euskaltel.es ([85.84.220.30] helo=nombree801d31e.euskaltel.es) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J321K-0002qa-2R; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:19:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host74391087.familygivingtree.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id H8uInNC293.631499.Akq.Rrq.4279732409011 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:19:04 -0100 Message-ID: <5a66601c83e08$84772380$1edc5455@nombree801d31e> From: "Gilbert Kelley" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_5A662_01C83E08.84772380-- From Rani449@NewWorkCity.ru Fri Dec 14 01:31:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J344p-0000zI-OT for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:31:15 -0500 Received: from [124.43.49.242] (helo=[124.43.60.196]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J344n-0004u1-1M for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:31:15 -0500 Received: by 10.205.154.108 with SMTP id mznomQZMyYAOM; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:01:58 +0600 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.141.177 with SMTP id KjtxjVqqskKelZ.3084451149793; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:01:56 +0600 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c83e7b$68905c90$c43c2b7c@pc4> From: "Rani Chatfield" To: Subject: ucirbmul Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:01:53 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C83EAD.B32ACC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C83EAD.B32ACC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Compliments pana-archive Feel good now! http://bottomexpect.com Rani Chatfield ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C83EAD.B32ACC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Compliments pana-archive
Feel good now!
http://bottomexpect.com
Rani Chatfield
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C83EAD.B32ACC90-- From MellisaKodede@cnc-modellbau.net Fri Dec 14 02:18:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J34og-0001kS-U7 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:18:38 -0500 Received: from [85.108.32.115] (helo=[85.108.32.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J34og-0006NV-8m for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:18:38 -0500 Received: from kemalkaan ([153.185.98.175] helo=kemalkaan) by [85.108.32.115] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1lZYIu-000JYW-bT for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:18:49 +0200 Message-ID: <8B88774C.320CD379@cnc-modellbau.net> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:18:36 +0200 From: "Mellisa Kodede" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: nelletin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030607060001070507010800" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------030607060001070507010800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hit that pussy and hit it hard with a new imrpoved cock size http://www.magillin.com/ --------------030607060001070507010800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hit that pussy and hit it hard with a new imrpoved cock size http://www.magillin.com/
--------------030607060001070507010800-- From DanteinauspiciousWalls@libertyfleet.com Fri Dec 14 03:30:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J35wL-0002vk-1V; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:30:37 -0500 Received: from [88.235.15.19] (helo=anka05.ankara.local) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J35wJ-0007r9-Mu; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:30:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host48700852.libertyfleet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id gs6EBs6f02.252236.p5u.qg3.8423147785867 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:20:26 -0200 Message-ID: <141e301c83e2a$423de400$f601a8c0@ANKA05> From: "Cole Leach" To: Subject: Your order Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:20:26 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_141DF_01C83E2A.423DE400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_141DF_01C83E2A.423DE400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_141DF_01C83E2A.423DE400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_141DF_01C83E2A.423DE400-- From AliciapembrokeRucker@lashares.org Fri Dec 14 07:12:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J39PU-0003Cv-J8; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:12:56 -0500 Received: from [190.65.109.32] (helo=ingb4fc61b9eb2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J39PU-00046N-5k; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:12:56 -0500 Received: from hijack by lashares.org with SMTP id udfIf1Lqb1 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:12:20 +0500 From: "Leslie Montes" To: Subject: Players from the United States and around the world! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! If you're in the US or anywhere else, join your new casino paradise. We're serious about fun. After thatit's only fun and winning. http://eurocasinoae.com/ From Oliviercyp@formula1.md Fri Dec 14 16:39:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3IG1-00035N-V6 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:39:45 -0500 Received: from adsl-ull-59-17.49-151.net24.it ([151.49.17.59]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3IG1-0003DB-C3 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:39:45 -0500 Received: from fernando-3f55ee by formula1.md with ASMTP id 0900481B for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:40:00 +0100 Received: from fernando-3f55ee ([123.108.117.31]) by formula1.md with ESMTP id 082EB3D9E935 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:40:00 +0100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:39:44 +0100 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "eunyoung Olivier" Subject: usuripap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 bang your bitch in all positions with a massive meat http://rfliraq.com/ From WalkerninaBarlow@chronicle.com Fri Dec 14 22:35:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3Noa-000378-SV; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:35:48 -0500 Received: from [201.240.96.51] (helo=pc04) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3Noa-0005i6-FR; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:35:48 -0500 Received: from axiom by chronicle.com with SMTP id QCxmVuWW5y for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:35:13 +0500 From: "Antone Velazquez" To: Subject: Multi-hand and single-hand blackjack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Get $999 you download our casino. Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. We know how to treat our players - how about a $999 welcome bonmus when you join? Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. http://eurocasinoad.com/ From ten84@quikstopoil.com Sat Dec 15 04:40:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3TVE-0004Zt-QJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:40:12 -0500 Received: from [88.254.192.62] (helo=[88.254.192.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3TVD-0008Qf-IZ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:40:12 -0500 Received: from [88.254.192.62] by addr-mx02.addr.com; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:40:04 +0200 From: "Yolanda Coffey" To: Subject: Hey Baby its Nik Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:40:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6Q5JY6Z13PSXPONNJ0H21UEV28I== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Message-ID: <01c83f0f$3bc6c200$3ec0fe58@ten84> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071214-0, 14.12.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Hey you I saw your profile on-line Maybe we can chat today? email me at Jenny@SimOldGlory.info and I will reply with a Picture and info right away. From JohnacrossHarris@omahacityweekly.com Sat Dec 15 07:12:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3VsU-0001dz-HM; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:12:22 -0500 Received: from adsl190-28-102-162.epm.net.co ([190.28.102.162] helo=erwinos) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3VsT-00009V-Sk; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:12:22 -0500 Received: from repent by omahacityweekly.com with SMTP id riYNsrLai4 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:12:27 +0500 From: "John Martin" To: Subject: Get $999 you download our casino. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Our casino is for you and everyone else who likes to win! We have it all! We know how to treat our players - how about a $999 welcome bonmus when you join? Get your bonus and walk the red carpet to winnings and fun. http://eurocasinoad.com/ From SaradisciplinarianPryor@magicmoments.org Sat Dec 15 16:03:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3eA1-0008Sy-Rf; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:03:01 -0500 Received: from 196-82-20-190.adsl.terra.cl ([190.20.82.196] helo=pas5) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3eA1-0002LP-0z; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:03:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host70878737.magicmoments.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jsQWEXLw03.725459.ym5.zps.3340164371056 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:02:25 +0400 Message-ID: <14bad01c83f5d$dd2643c0$0501a8c0@PAS5> From: "Wanda Tracy" To: Subject: Your family Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:02:25 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_14BA9_01C83F5D.DD2643C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_14BA9_01C83F5D.DD2643C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_14BA9_01C83F5D.DD2643C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_14BA9_01C83F5D.DD2643C0-- From LilajestFeliciano@techcrunch.com Sat Dec 15 19:14:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3h99-0008Pf-K9; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:14:19 -0500 Received: from c228-11.i03-10.onvol.net ([213.217.228.11] helo=user) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3h98-0006aY-IP; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:14:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host31195993.techcrunch.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id wCD84mAi66.622668.tuE.lC5.4951588679524 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:02 +0800 Message-ID: From: "Essie Blackmon" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:02 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_E2A95_01C1C165.5D3AB230" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_E2A95_01C1C165.5D3AB230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_E2A95_01C1C165.5D3AB230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_E2A95_01C1C165.5D3AB230-- From ColemandebtChaney@aidingandapetting.com Sun Dec 16 07:11:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3sLN-0002Qy-Pf; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:11:41 -0500 Received: from gfo11.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.12.144.11] helo=jurekced43d766) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3sLN-0006sb-98; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:11:41 -0500 Received: from cardiff by aidingandapetting.com with SMTP id Mx8iOoem98 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:11:24 -0100 From: "Les Dillard" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3sO8-0007v6-2m; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:14:32 -0500 Received: from [84.15.32.62] (helo=athlon64) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3sO6-0006w4-6U; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:14:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host85083996.cemarking.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jkC52CWp76.543432.pnl.8wp.3345136068952 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:14:06 -0200 Message-ID: <635601c83fdd$3a90f580$6140100a@athlon64> From: "Dewitt Bright" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_6352_01C83FDD.3A90F580-- From ShellymalfeasantPineda@helenedelillo.com Sun Dec 16 10:26:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3vOE-0001pu-VD; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:26:51 -0500 Received: from host86-129-22-152.range86-129.btcentralplus.com ([86.129.22.152] helo=williamson.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3vOE-0004Wl-K0; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:26:50 -0500 Received: from tinfoil by helenedelillo.com with SMTP id i26ao235AV for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:26:08 +0000 From: "Ramona Mcclellan" To: Subject: Huge progressive jackpots, slots, multi-hand, and single-hand blackjack. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! Come find out. Players from the United States and around the world! Get to know your new casino home! http://eurocasinoac.com/ From Heaney@autoescola-catalunya.com Sun Dec 16 11:28:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3wM0-0005OE-Kl for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:28:36 -0500 Received: from [212.230.50.166] (helo=[212.230.50.166]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3wLz-0005tX-V6 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:28:36 -0500 Received: by 10.209.178.48 with SMTP id nRSRLQXuJcNUJ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:28:34 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.4.108 with SMTP id sSojbQRFApJPMQ.6322134563223; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:28:32 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000e01c84000$b10176e0$a632e6d4@e0y1l7> From: "Gabi Heaney" To: Subject: panoileh Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:28:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84009.12C5DEE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84009.12C5DEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable regards pana-archive Ordinary men have ordinary se.>.< Prove her that you are outstaning guy http://swimanger.com Gabi Heaney ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84009.12C5DEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
regards pana-archive
Ordinary men have ordinary se.>.< Prove her = that you are=20 outstaning guy
http://swimanger.com
Gabi Heaney
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84009.12C5DEE0-- From TimothybretonAdams@maximizehold.org Sun Dec 16 16:36:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J41A8-00037C-SC; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:36:40 -0500 Received: from 84.121.113.201.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.121.113.201] helo=jose0ecf8850e7) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J41A8-0003v0-0l; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:36:40 -0500 Received: from out by maximizehold.org with SMTP id ayFQvsYk8w for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:35:52 -0100 From: "Ronald Baker" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J44P9-0003df-IA; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:04:23 -0500 Received: from 213.37.226.55.dyn.user.ono.com ([213.37.226.55] helo=oscarooknvhx5d) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J44P9-0008L6-0h; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:04:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host45365204.washingtonpost.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 8Ec8oK3N54.434566.Ae4.UN1.8895453824989 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:03:50 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Santiago Copeland" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:03:50 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_FEF6C_01C84048.C0FCE000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_FEF6C_01C84048.C0FCE000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_FEF6C_01C84048.C0FCE000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_FEF6C_01C84048.C0FCE000-- From Clem-Pomerleau@acedeltekservices.com Sun Dec 16 22:34:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J46kZ-0002e5-Fp for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:34:39 -0500 Received: from 123-243-1-97.static.tpgi.com.au ([123.243.1.97] helo=[202.7.166.164]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J46kY-0002d2-O5 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:34:39 -0500 Received: from serverp3 ([115.110.61.121] helo=serverp3) by [202.7.166.164] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1VnVST-000HAN-XM for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:39:46 -0800 From: "Clem Pomerleau" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: tmadapat Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed stop wondering because now you really can make it big! http://rajmodes.com/
From JulesloathAlbert@yahoo.com Sun Dec 16 23:47:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J47t0-0007Ou-KE; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:47:26 -0500 Received: from cpc2-port6-0-0-cust959.cos2.cable.ntl.com ([82.30.107.192] helo=samandbrenpc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J47sz-0003we-PN; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:47:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host99490980.yahoo.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id TYQi2iew48.624209.Oo7.unE.3311573728869 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:46:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1ef2af01c84067$e84ba5a0$6400a8c0@SamAndBrenPC> From: "Nigel Mcpherson" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_1EF2AB_01C84067.E84BA5A0-- From TriciathoriateHeller@quirksmode.org Mon Dec 17 04:30:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4CJ8-0001wu-Ug; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:30:42 -0500 Received: from [41.196.92.190] (helo=lotfy) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4CJ7-0000b3-W6; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:30:42 -0500 Received: from especial by quirksmode.org with SMTP id eJKyQV1JVS for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:30:22 -0200 From: "Elvira Painter" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4CMO-0003aV-Ak; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:34:04 -0500 Received: from 88-105-89-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.89.173] helo=annepc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4CMN-0000gf-ON; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:34:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host57501279.nationalgeographic.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id wRkPybEn54.471309.p1H.I2b.1093867953604 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:33:25 +0000 Message-ID: <159fa801c8408f$f2524cc0$ad596958@annepc> From: "Jeannie Burkett" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_159FA4_01C8408F.F2524CC0-- From AishadiplomaBruner@nypost.com Mon Dec 17 08:13:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4FmQ-0005Mc-No; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:13:10 -0500 Received: from ppp-124.120.79.208.revip2.asianet.co.th ([124.120.79.208] helo=microsofecb2eb) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4FmP-00069R-Vj; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:13:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host93021239.nypost.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Cp41lfgF66.785556.EKZ.ntT.3523875958034 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:12:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1d1701c840ae$91bf4e20$0300000a@microsofecb2eb> From: "Natalia Roark" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_1D13_01C840AE.91BF4E20-- From EverettinexplicableCaldwell@havanastreet.com Mon Dec 17 11:16:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4Idn-0002qy-EQ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:16:27 -0500 Received: from [151.60.148.228] (helo=homec086f4ee3a) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4Idn-0004Bb-1p; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:16:27 -0500 Received: from whatley by havanastreet.com with SMTP id kLts5NQ5iq for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:18:14 -0100 From: "Ian Jennings" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4LVm-0005yk-Rt; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:20:22 -0500 Received: from [201.226.16.64] (helo=junior.cwpanama.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4LVm-0004SP-5m; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:20:22 -0500 Received: from crease by billbaren.com with SMTP id psDksHUAtF for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:19:45 +0500 From: "Ned Hobbs" To: Subject: Best offer in gambling history . Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de We pay you to play. Free money free fun. Come find out. USA players too! Download and GO! http://eurocasinoac.com/ From CarolthreshLucero@usni.org Mon Dec 17 17:23:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4OMg-0005fI-Tv; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:23:10 -0500 Received: from [190.1.129.177] (helo=portatil) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4OMg-00039x-Hh; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:23:10 -0500 Received: from pabst by usni.org with SMTP id g2ezEu9z0K for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:22:48 +0500 From: "Mary Rouse" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4d44-0001Xb-TW for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:04:56 -0500 Received: from [61.97.209.180] (helo=[61.97.209.180]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4d44-0003Zt-6M for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:04:56 -0500 Received: from USER-16D6DC9947 ([154.124.68.151] helo=USER-16D6DC9947) by [61.97.209.180] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1XLlDy-000PYF-Lj for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:05:09 +0900 Message-ID: <61686B4F.DAC52A59@tscm.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:04:56 +0900 From: "graillat Collum" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: 1debris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Your dick doesn't function properly? Cure him with these pills, and your penis won't need no introduction! http://www.qualityoptimum.com/ From NoemibaltimoreJolly@kidsplanet.org Tue Dec 18 16:51:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kLm-0003AM-8X; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:51:42 -0500 Received: from pool-72-88-48-97.bflony.east.verizon.net ([72.88.48.97] helo=samanthasroom.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kLl-0008LM-S4; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:51:42 -0500 Received: from crusade by kidsplanet.org with SMTP id Lj7v39NzK9 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:51:41 +0500 From: "Lakisha Hobson" To: Subject: Start seeing dollars pouring in. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Play your favorite games from the comfort of your home, USA players ARE included! We give out BONUSES to anyone who joins. Our safe, secure games will get you smiling when you start seeing dollars pouring in. Get your bonus and walk the red carpet to winnings and fun. http://eurocasinoac.com/ From CorinebaltimoreSalter@slashdot.org Tue Dec 18 16:53:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kN9-0003dy-NW; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:53:07 -0500 Received: from 201-27-141-246.dsl.telesp.net.br ([201.27.141.246] helo=pc0010) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kN8-0008NB-5a; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:53:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host46231317.slashdot.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id icqHgGe175.372086.VAv.YHK.1992849198244 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:52:11 +0300 Message-ID: <9efec01c841c0$5c242ca0$2101a8c0@pc0010> From: "Margery Culver" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_9EFE8_01C841C0.5C242CA0-- From hoseltonarpl@1by1catrescue.org Tue Dec 18 18:35:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lyb-0005vu-BD for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:35:53 -0500 Received: from [189.24.36.172] (helo=18924036172.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lya-0003JD-If for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:35:53 -0500 Received: from SERVIDOR ([161.167.50.10] helo=SERVIDOR) by 18924036172.user.veloxzone.com.br ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1bVIPz-000QAQ-Wt for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:36:21 -0200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:35:52 -0200 From: "Derric hoselton" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: rejoicem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Sick of your girl, whining about your short dick? Shut her mouth, by proving that your dick is a MONSTER. Only with this medicine you'll achieve your goal. http://www.soothingmeds.com/ From MarilynnucleateGriggs@business.com Wed Dec 19 03:19:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4u9U-0002AV-Uh; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:19:40 -0500 Received: from [85.106.230.78] (helo=feardot.elkotek) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4u9U-0000Ny-FW; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:19:40 -0500 Received: from admittance by business.com with SMTP id 5rsuFtuYav for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:19:16 -0200 From: "Judy Camp" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4uBS-00053Q-EN; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:21:42 -0500 Received: from adsl1500-143.dyn250.pacific.net.sg ([210.24.250.143] helo=chunzhong.addest) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4uBQ-0000Rr-87; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:21:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host71992804.theubm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id FZMT23XS97.506695.5ds.kNE.7064079633676 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:21:24 -0800 Message-ID: <14e00801c84218$35a03800$1901010a@Chunzhong> From: "Judith Mahoney" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:21:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_14E004_01C84218.35A03800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_14E004_01C84218.35A03800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_14E004_01C84218.35A03800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_14E004_01C84218.35A03800-- From LatishatunisiaEddy@victorypackaging.com Wed Dec 19 08:37:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4z6o-0000io-Ht; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:37:14 -0500 Received: from 84.124.229.52.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.124.229.52] helo=fer9106fdbdb78) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4z6o-0001iu-2n; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:37:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host16761202.victorypackaging.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id JtbzvtPR42.208895.Fk2.4eq.9771173820639 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:36:44 -0100 Message-ID: <23f1701c84244$4160c750$34e57c54@fer9106fdbdb78> From: "Audra Babcock" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_23F13_01C84244.4160C750-- From Glyndwr@mamboday.it Wed Dec 19 15:12:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J55Hc-00088B-Nw for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:12:48 -0500 Received: from host217-179-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([87.3.179.217]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J55HZ-000464-EG for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:12:48 -0500 Received: from ciccillo-97d834 ([183.174.159.55]:5814 "EHLO ciccillo-97d834" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host217-179-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22PIOAKHXQIONYQ (ORCPT ); Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:13:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c8427b$9215c510$d9b30357@ciccillo97d834> From: "Glyndwr Gryspos" To: Subject: arawisi Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:13:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84283.F3DA2D10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000774-3, 11/09/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84283.F3DA2D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Compliments pana-archive Make your fat friends envy you http://unittoo.com Glyndwr Gryspos ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84283.F3DA2D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Compliments pana-archive
Make your fat friends envy you
http://unittoo.com
Glyndwr Gryspos
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84283.F3DA2D10-- From Habib-Fykes@lailink.com.hk Wed Dec 19 16:39:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J56da-0003Fg-IH for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:39:34 -0500 Received: from [41.208.11.160] (helo=41-208-11-160.mtnns.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J56dY-0006GA-KJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:39:34 -0500 Received: from hatrans ([110.158.46.138] helo=hatrans) by 41-208-11-160.mtnns.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1BghyW-000XNR-PJ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:39:39 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c84287$98123f50$a00bd029@hatrans> From: "Habib Fykes" To: Subject: prasoid Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:39:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C84298.5B9B0F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C84298.5B9B0F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wassup pana-archive Urgent healthcare info http://whosewinter.com Habib Fykes ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C84298.5B9B0F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wassup pana-archive
Urgent healthcare info
http://whosewinter.com
Habib Fykes
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C84298.5B9B0F50-- From LinwoodbundestagChen@netcrucible.com Wed Dec 19 17:00:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J56yE-0008UG-6b; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:00:54 -0500 Received: from [201.245.217.124] (helo=metroparque) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J56yA-0007qL-O0; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:00:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host27012781.netcrucible.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id maacq0zZ20.382291.Tbc.DeZ.1506152179416 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:59:25 +0500 Message-ID: <350aa01c8428a$93559a40$0601a8c0@metroparque> From: "Truman Middleton" To: Subject: Hi Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:59:25 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_350A6_01C8428A.93559A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_350A6_01C8428A.93559A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_350A6_01C8428A.93559A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_350A6_01C8428A.93559A40-- From karcaruz@subjective.de Wed Dec 19 21:56:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5BZu-0005B1-NI for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:56:06 -0500 Received: from u11-118.static.grapesc.cz ([82.100.11.118]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5BZu-00068p-16 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:56:06 -0500 Received: from konvicka ([124.125.92.61] helo=konvicka) by u11-118.static.grapesc.cz ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1YUULc-000DVE-Ne for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:50:29 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:49:55 +0100 From: "davide karcaruz" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: 463-1317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Try out our dick improvement medicine. It does work! Everytime you'll
have it hard, you'll cause a solar eclipse. http://liverchester.com/
From Mulinarecuu@dali.kiev.ua Thu Dec 20 06:55:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Jzk-0005X1-93 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:55:20 -0500 Received: from [213.253.84.30] (helo=[213.253.84.30]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Jzj-0000X8-BV for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:55:20 -0500 Received: from LJ-DARJA by dali.kiev.ua with ASMTP id DE970C5D for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:55:52 +0100 Received: from LJ-DARJA ([138.119.152.43]) by dali.kiev.ua with ESMTP id 56E586E66BB7 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:55:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c842ff$3bcec740$1e54fdd5@LJDARJA> From: "Braden Mulinare" To: Subject: erabgalk Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:55:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84307.9D932F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84307.9D932F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evening pana-archive Rise easily your mens' strength just right now http://operatefor.com Braden Mulinare ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84307.9D932F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evening pana-archive
Rise easily your mens' strength just right=20 now
http://operatefor.com
Braden Mulinare
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84307.9D932F40-- From Koponenkno@abundancenet.com Thu Dec 20 15:18:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5RqG-0002Q1-8R for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:18:04 -0500 Received: from ip-85-160-16-29.eurotel.cz ([85.160.16.29]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5RqF-00072h-AC for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:18:04 -0500 Received: from SVMONT ([130.191.102.54] helo=SVMONT) by ip-85-160-16-29.eurotel.cz ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1EGeCQ-000CQZ-ve for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:16:35 +0100 Message-ID: <8AC79F06.324AAE1C@abundancenet.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:16:13 +0100 From: "seth Koponen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: swerhseb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Evening pana-archive Christmas wouldn't be merry without having a wild night with your gf try out our new exclusive offfeeer http://whosewinter.com seth Koponen From mihail@rocketmail.com Fri Dec 21 01:00:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5avR-0001ZL-KX for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:00:01 -0500 Received: from dyn-88-122-63-9.ppp.tiscali.fr ([88.122.63.9] helo=88.122.63.9) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5avQ-0006in-Ps for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:00:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c84396$076aba29$0ad76ea5@ilcavri> From: "der olivier" To: Subject: to pana-archive Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:12:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Good day! A respectable “E-Trust” company is seeking for employees in the USA. If you are interested in finding a secure job, please, respond to us and we will be happy to give you more details. At this moment we are enlarging our staff and you have a chance to become a member of our team and get additional earnings spending 2 - 3 hours per week. You don’t need any special experience for this position. What we offer: Flexible program: two hours/week at your choice, daytime and evening time, mainly checking your e-mail Work at home: checking e-mail and going to the bank Part time - no need to leave your current job - if you already work. 2-3 hours free during the week (mainly in the evening / non-business hours) for communication. Important: Adult age (must be over 18 years old) U.S. work authorization You don’t need to selling or buying anything. You don’t need to make personal investments to start your work. Requirements: general internet knowledge including working with Microsoft Office (Word/Excel) familiarized with financial terms (debit/credit, invoices etc.) familiarized with banking procedures (wire transfers, withdraws etc.) no diploma required students accepted If You are interested in our job offer, please, reply to this letter. Contact us: employercenter@gmail.com From tegra936@icqmail.com Fri Dec 21 09:02:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5iSJ-0006zR-On; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from eu85-85-8-37.clientes.euskaltel.es ([85.85.8.37] helo=jc.euskaltel.es) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5iSH-0008Hy-Ow; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from [85.85.8.37] by mx1.icq.mail2world.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:02:24 +0100 From: "Hyde" To: Subject: Where is that picture Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:02:24 +0100 Message-ID: <01c843e2$7e424000$25085555@tegra936> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Hey Baby I saw your profile on-line just a few minutes ago Email me at Nichole@SimOldGlory.info and I will reply with a Picture and info right away. Maybe we can chat today? From Jeff-Horn@desautels.net Fri Dec 21 11:38:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5ktB-0003mb-K1 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:38:21 -0500 Received: from host125-89-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.3.89.125] helo=host240-94-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5ktA-0006Nf-Vb for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:38:21 -0500 Received: from francesca ([137.113.126.82]:7490 "EHLO francesca" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host240-94-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22RIVYTTCDTGUIR (ORCPT ); Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:38:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3A63E3E0.F51A03FF@desautels.net> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:38:16 +0100 From: "Jeff Horn" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: umectees Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010604050404020202080802" X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------010604050404020202080802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enhance your sex life, the easy way today http://www.insersfd.com/ --------------010604050404020202080802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enhance your sex life, the easy way today http://www.insersfd.com/
--------------010604050404020202080802-- From TrentpotholeConley@urbandictionary.com Fri Dec 21 17:19:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qDL-0003ko-Gc; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:19:31 -0500 Received: from [190.41.140.156] (helo=cabina05) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qDK-00082U-Qf; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:19:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host35326980.urbandictionary.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id dbljpV6116.710459.dtj.jSG.3016411733921 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:14:25 +0500 Message-ID: <09d701c844e8$17ac04f0$0601a8c0@CABINA05> From: "Louie Marquez" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_09D3_01C844E8.17AC04F0-- From JasperwhetherKramer@bartleby.com Fri Dec 21 17:41:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qYU-0004u0-Tv; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:41:22 -0500 Received: from pd951bf4a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.81.191.74] helo=kurdo) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qYU-000075-HU; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:41:22 -0500 Received: from maynard by bartleby.com with SMTP id 50H1B1vTal for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:41:01 -0100 From: "Monte Hensley" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5woH-0005KH-0n; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:22:05 -0500 Received: from [200.121.224.9] (helo=felira8e81dfbd) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5woF-0005fS-HC; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:22:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host98487455.refunddomains.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 7x0ii4W504.703942.giZ.GCF.9255763161099 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:21:31 +0500 Message-ID: <84d501c8445a$93cf7050$4001a8c0@felira8e81dfbd> From: "Olivia Quintana" To: Subject: Hi Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:21:31 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_84D1_01C8445A.93CF7050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_84D1_01C8445A.93CF7050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_84D1_01C8445A.93CF7050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_84D1_01C8445A.93CF7050-- From Ferguson-Hubert@EASYPOOLTUTOR.COM Sat Dec 22 05:05:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J61F0-0006wF-KF for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:05:58 -0500 Received: from host59-211-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.1.211.59] helo=host110-139-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J61F0-0003vY-3K for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:05:58 -0500 Received: from ACER-ELTJON ([143.120.141.88] helo=ACER-ELTJON) by host110-139-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1lrKbN-000PNP-Ax for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:06:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c84482$3ff9ec80$6e8b3652@ACERELTJON> From: "Ferguson Hubert" To: Subject: ookstown Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:05:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8448A.A1BE5480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071221-0, 21/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8448A.A1BE5480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable greeting pana-archive With our service, you are guaranteed to find the absolute lowest prices = for buying meds online. http://dependfruit.com Ferguson Hubert ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8448A.A1BE5480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
greeting pana-archive
With our service, you are guaranteed to find = the=20 absolute lowest prices for buying meds online.
http://dependfruit.com
Ferguson Hubert
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8448A.A1BE5480-- From MalcolmderisionSantos@eserver.org Sat Dec 22 08:37:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J64Xu-00060E-Cl; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:37:42 -0500 Received: from [200.27.118.114] (helo=commodor2b0ea6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J64Xt-0000bU-W7; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:37:42 -0500 Received: from cupidity by eserver.org with SMTP id FPm48iZk0a for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:37:10 +0400 From: "Roderick Tate" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J686s-0006Ea-LP for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:26:02 -0500 Received: from 088156128051.rad.vectranet.pl ([88.156.128.51]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J686s-0005uU-8N for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:26:02 -0500 Received: from janusz-8f0fyefa ([166.110.0.145]:7924 "EHLO janusz-8f0fyefa" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 088156128051.rad.vectranet.pl with ESMTP id S22FXWQBPFMAAFFC (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:23:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c844bf$40fc7bb0$33809c58@janusz8f0fyefa> From: "Larraine Mulert" To: Subject: naosissa Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:22:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C844C7.A2C0E3B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071221-0, 2007-12-21), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C844C7.A2C0E3B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regards pana-archive Meds bought online http://tirewhether.com Larraine Mulert ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C844C7.A2C0E3B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Regards pana-archive
Meds bought online
http://tirewhether.com
Larraine Mulert
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C844C7.A2C0E3B0-- From Kooikermsqnf@tirana.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 23 00:07:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6J3d-0005Ch-Ge for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:07:25 -0500 Received: from [98.20.161.87] (helo=[98.20.216.228]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6J3c-0006G4-VB for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:07:25 -0500 Received: by 10.13.176.37 with SMTP id zJASWAvJEQusQ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:07:24 -0600 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.23.111 with SMTP id COHsSjLtIVUzml.6010683644515; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:07:22 -0600 (GMT) Message-ID: <066C048A.906D17C1@tirana.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:07:19 -0600 From: "Darina Kooiker" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: stuermer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071105-1, 11/05/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Jackie's dick was bigger in two day, and sharon wanted to make love all day long http://www.jinasd.com/ From Orosz@CASCADEDRILLING.COM Sun Dec 23 06:01:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6OaS-0005PR-80 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:01:40 -0500 Received: from [151.56.157.126] (helo=[151.56.167.50]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6OaR-0000IJ-03 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:01:39 -0500 Received: from peppe93 ([139.102.67.70] helo=peppe93) by [151.56.167.50] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1ujJhK-000YKL-jO for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:01:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c84553$2ed7b5f0$32a73897@peppe93> From: "Orosz CRABB" To: Subject: slufliap Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:01:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8455B.909C1DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8455B.909C1DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Night pana-archive discontented with your PE size? http://glassleast.com Orosz CRABB ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8455B.909C1DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Night pana-archive
discontented with your PE size?
http://glassleast.com
Orosz CRABB
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8455B.909C1DF0-- From Marlos_Bracknell@KAMZ-KAMA.RU Sun Dec 23 10:16:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6SYu-0005yI-BO for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from p50809686.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.128.150.134] helo=p50809533.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6SYt-0005oN-RP for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:16:20 -0500 Received: by 10.41.32.75 with SMTP id zZLlfzHFDwfck; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:19:13 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.8.133 with SMTP id zijGOONHEemjTV.6535971340280; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:19:11 +0100 (GMT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:19:08 +0100 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Marlos Bracknell" Subject: eimerpsn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Boost your cock up, with this unique medicament. Instructions and medicine are included below http://sitineerus.com/ From HoperenovateCastle@directsupports.com Sun Dec 23 10:21:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6Sdt-0007uT-Dp; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:21:29 -0500 Received: from [78.150.248.95] (helo=mumtaz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6Sds-0005tK-Vb; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:21:29 -0500 Received: from britain by directsupports.com with SMTP id 1VjZM3gnFf for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:21:09 +0000 From: "Christie Larkin" To: Subject: it's only fun and winning. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Huge progressive jackpots, slots, multi-hand, and single-hand blackjack. $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! We give out BONUSES to anyone who joins. Our safe, secure games will get you smiling when you start seeing dollars pouring in. http://worldcasinod.com.cn/ From JanishershelSilver@naemsp.org Sun Dec 23 10:21:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6SeD-0000lc-9A; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:21:49 -0500 Received: from 189.27.70.55.adsl.gvt.net.br ([189.27.70.55] helo=carlos) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6SeB-0005td-81; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:21:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host42405126.naemsp.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id cl70IsJX10.267698.qWa.i3C.8893642746344 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:21:18 +0300 Message-ID: <2c5201c8456f$25b2a450$0301a8c0@carlos> From: "Antonia Ash" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_2C4E_01C8456F.25B2A450-- From EvetutorialPettit@ttparliament.org Sun Dec 23 13:18:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6VPV-0007fb-NG; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:18:49 -0500 Received: from 213.37.217.73.dyn.user.ono.com ([213.37.217.73] helo=edison32ibut3p) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6VPU-0000zq-I0; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:18:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host56787461.ttparliament.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 0NJqQDf913.421474.zJ0.63u.9915735510842 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:17:54 -0100 Message-ID: <28d0501c84590$3df654a0$49d925d5@edison32ibut3p> From: "Alejandra Pettit" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_28D01_01C84590.3DF654A0-- From MickeyindicesBruce@adobe.com Sun Dec 23 19:35:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6bHa-0008Uw-1C; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:35:02 -0500 Received: from 123.red-88-15-58.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([88.15.58.123] helo=d453fj2j) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6bHZ-0000Iv-CU; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:35:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host09023056.adobe.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iddKJW1p24.273851.K4b.Cpi.6267014905654 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 01:34:31 -0100 Message-ID: <549901c845c4$d09fa890$2101a8c0@D453FJ2J> From: "Stan Kramer" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_5495_01C845C4.D09FA890-- From abe@hedlundshus.com Sun Dec 23 22:46:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6eGR-0001HX-4d; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:46:03 -0500 Received: from [116.75.65.107] (helo=home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6eGN-0003od-Vv; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:46:02 -0500 Received: from [116.75.65.107] by mail-gw.glidecom.se; , 23 Dec 2007 19:45:05 -0800 Message-ID: <01c8459c$511933c0$6b414b74@abe> From: "Nicholas" To: Subject: Hugs from me Date: , 23 Dec 2007 19:45:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Hey you I read your profile on-line a few minutes ago and you seem intresting email me at Kris@GloryWayChurchx.info and I will reply with a Picture and Info about me right away I will stay online and wait for your email Talk to you soon From MauraoverValentin@idhw.com Mon Dec 24 07:04:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6m3C-0008Up-D6; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:04:54 -0500 Received: from [202.31.151.213] (helo=osama) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6m3B-00061b-O2; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:04:54 -0500 Received: from anheuser by idhw.com with SMTP id JeHd7taq8w for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:04:56 +0800 From: "Mai Friend" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6nkm-00036z-KO for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:54:00 -0500 Received: from host155-235-dynamic.45-213-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([213.45.235.155]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6nkl-0008U3-4V for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:54:00 -0500 Received: by 10.117.72.88 with SMTP id DjYKveJmBwhzG; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:54:01 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.223.92 with SMTP id YTJuldodrvBhvJ.2238810606506; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:53:59 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <075A66C7.2AD08E54@orlandistudio.com> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:53:56 +0100 From: "ryann dfv" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: niwdlab1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea regards pana-archive Gain a full 3+ inches on your Manhood, Safe and fast. http://methodsister.com ryann dfv From Shon573@valma.com Mon Dec 24 15:14:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6thS-0003rw-7G for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:14:58 -0500 Received: from acrp84.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.11.17.84]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6thR-0001AD-K0 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:14:58 -0500 Received: by 10.224.121.135 with SMTP id MnakgSNKbDyiN; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:15:08 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.213.60 with SMTP id ySgfdwkVwYjQCE.9958633447248; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:15:06 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <91DEAB43.FB313806@valma.com> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:15:03 +0100 From: "Shon Pettengill" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: dlevdnoz Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Here is the solution millions of men around the world have been
waiting for! http://wourerst.com/
From JacquelinecellophaneLugo@caulleycorner.com Mon Dec 24 16:46:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6v7k-0004rI-Vq; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:46:13 -0500 Received: from cable201-233-22-228.epm.net.co ([201.233.22.228] helo=cafe7.mshome.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6v7k-0003B2-EV; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:46:12 -0500 Received: from fore by caulleycorner.com with SMTP id rvyXCu7aXq for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:45:15 +0500 From: "Kathryn Lutz" To: Subject: Get your bonus and walk the red carpet to winnings and fun. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Get to know your new casino home! Free money free fun. Play your favorite games from the comfort of your home, USA players ARE included! Come find out. http://worldcasinod.cn/ From OraboulderOtt@southernseason.com Mon Dec 24 20:06:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6yG0-00060Y-4D; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:06:56 -0500 Received: from host81-151-241-223.range81-151.btcentralplus.com ([81.151.241.223] helo=newuser.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6yFz-00079R-DI; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:06:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host81784159.southernseason.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id JtZbLMap49.469179.oU3.L7v.5129868614883 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:06:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3010a01c84692$6e5171e0$4101a8c0@newuser> From: "Nettie Huerta" To: Subject: Your health Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:06:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_30106_01C84692.6E5171E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_30106_01C84692.6E5171E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_30106_01C84692.6E5171E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_30106_01C84692.6E5171E0-- From thoko@deltek.com Mon Dec 24 23:24:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J71Lf-000155-Hh; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:24:59 -0500 Received: from [212.45.1.243] (helo=ns.luxair.ru) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J71Le-0001qr-Ec; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:24:59 -0500 Received: from [212.45.1.243] by deltek.com.s8a2.psmtp.com; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:24:03 +0300 Message-ID: <01c846c7$2009ab80$f3012dd4@thoko> From: "Eric Meeks" To: Subject: Finger Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:24:03 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Grow your Manhood 3 inches or more Safe and Fast and your wife or girlfriend will Thank you! http://foasetss.com From RolandohanoverianCasey@victoryfund.org Tue Dec 25 04:18:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J75vw-0001Jv-MF; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 04:18:44 -0500 Received: from 85-18-14-16.fastres.net ([85.18.14.16] helo=fabry.fastwebnet.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J75vu-00074m-Fa; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 04:18:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host33720021.victoryfund.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id zmIcFJAI11.464753.zWC.LCx.4480350378962 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:13:17 -0100 Message-ID: <21cb01c84544$217fdea0$d242e717@FABRY> From: "Clay Carson" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_21C7_01C84544.217FDEA0-- From EliseopearsonChaney@daneprairie.com Tue Dec 25 07:43:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J797d-0003Bc-2L; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:43:01 -0500 Received: from p54afd45a.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.175.212.90] helo=weidel) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J797c-0003Of-Ld; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:43:00 -0500 Received: from bottleneck by daneprairie.com with SMTP id oS9Qj2wT6K for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:42:47 -0100 From: "Jules Acevedo" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J799d-0005KZ-DU; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:45:05 -0500 Received: from 77-99-39-3.cable.ubr04.chap.blueyonder.co.uk ([77.99.39.3] helo=ebybs2wxp03.ebyha.org.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J799c-0003RT-Lb; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:45:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host86062686.mayflowerfamilies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id TJ1F6Zi435.971777.ts2.Uld.3084293166491 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:42:27 +0000 Message-ID: <2ddc401c846f3$ad7125d0$6401a8c0@EBYBS2WXP03> From: "Normand Riggs" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_2DDC0_01C846F3.AD7125D0-- From SoniasussexSchmitt@homestarrunner.com Tue Dec 25 11:11:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7CNZ-0007PC-Fb; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:11:41 -0500 Received: from 62.43.53.45.dyn.user.ono.com ([62.43.53.45] helo=acerd918637222) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7CNZ-00016P-2z; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:11:41 -0500 Received: from smile by homestarrunner.com with SMTP id lCSFw2xB50 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:11:17 -0100 From: "Violet Pritchard" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7GK6-0003QC-KZ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:24:22 -0500 Received: from [217.17.241.119] (helo=[82.194.62.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7GK5-0007De-V0 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:24:22 -0500 Received: from user-38e38aff48 ([128.194.57.146]:24370 "EHLO user-38e38aff48" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [82.194.62.227] with ESMTP id S22MOJKKWQPWOKMC (ORCPT ); Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:24:42 +0300 Message-ID: <000501c84734$259fa4b0$e33ec252@user38e38aff48> From: "Derric Sackett" To: Subject: RE: Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:24:27 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="koi8-r"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Canadian Health&Care Mall tries to serve the customers with all heart and soul. http://amopriatem.info/ From Kjell120@safeafghanistan.ie Tue Dec 25 15:56:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7GpF-0000xC-G5 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:56:33 -0500 Received: from host191-126-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([82.57.126.191] helo=host235-134-dynamic.18-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7GpC-0007yz-R5 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:56:31 -0500 Received: from luca-3slgon45ub ([182.162.128.141]:4798 "EHLO luca-3slgon45ub" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host235-134-dynamic.18-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22MSCRTRLHUAZLU (ORCPT ); Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:58:12 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:57:54 +0100 From: "Kjell holmqvist" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: nedeor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Want an attention grabber in the locker rooms? http://www.zwbrugt.com/ From MartinisolateFlores@theinquirer.net Tue Dec 25 17:44:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7IW9-00014m-EL; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:44:57 -0500 Received: from [190.161.58.121] (helo=casa01jnzee4l8) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7IW8-0002Op-Jh; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:44:56 -0500 Received: from tenable by theinquirer.net with SMTP id DJt0k06EX1 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:44:27 +0400 From: "Alan Perry" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Lzs-0001gm-Qm; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:27:53 -0500 Received: from pool-71-250-192-173.nwrknj.east.verizon.net ([71.250.192.173] helo=yourae066c3a9b.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Lzs-0006kd-KA; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:27:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host54998497.monash.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id TnurrD7F36.546999.1rV.dbE.5796720425626 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:24:14 +0500 Message-ID: <3a35a01c84766$943dbf10$2c01a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> From: "Efrain Oneal" To: Subject: Your family Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:24:14 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3A356_01C84766.943DBF10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3A356_01C84766.943DBF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often. Learn More Now ------=_NextPart_000_3A356_01C84766.943DBF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_3A356_01C84766.943DBF10-- From AngellimitSeals@symbian.com Wed Dec 26 05:02:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7T5P-0001Av-MY; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:02:03 -0500 Received: from 0x5358a8d6.odnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk ([83.88.168.214] helo=kontor.opasia.dk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7T5P-0007Df-AH; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:02:03 -0500 Received: from cobweb by symbian.com with SMTP id ecS0u2LuJl for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:01:49 -0100 From: "Antonia Ash" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7TXw-00052I-Qp; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:31:32 -0500 Received: from pool-72-82-7-83.prvdri.east.verizon.net ([72.82.7.83] helo=hppav.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7TXq-0007qI-68; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:31:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host19672085.dylanthomas.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id zFnwFA6R26.672288.EHP.rAa.7229208437451 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:20:19 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Sophie Melvin" To: Subject: Your health Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:20:19 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_B841A_01C847AA.602DB600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_B841A_01C847AA.602DB600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often. Learn More Now ------=_NextPart_000_B841A_01C847AA.602DB600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_B841A_01C847AA.602DB600-- From txi@blonkagri.com Wed Dec 26 10:11:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Xuy-0000Hd-NR; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:11:36 -0500 Received: from cmodem-30-133.telecable.com.do ([190.94.30.133] helo=windows-n0ayezi.cpe.tricom.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Xux-0005tx-JY; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:11:36 -0500 Received: from [190.94.30.133] by blonkagri.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:41:27 +0630 From: "Eric Lujan" To: Subject: Star Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:41:27 +0630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6QRHY32U92IS44C3L8DQ4W7L3BQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Message-ID: <01c84808$1176dd80$851e5ebe@txi> X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea You know she really likes it the deeper you can perform, help her and yourself out. http://www.Lpsuumees.com hasnt resolved used in the Java API and lots of liquidation and support in your own code. for many families. From caroline.Homem@nozemalki.nl Wed Dec 26 10:34:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7YGz-0001ke-QU for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:34:21 -0500 Received: from [88.225.62.156] (helo=[212.175.115.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7YGx-0006Mh-ME for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:34:21 -0500 Received: from merkez ([149.117.78.7]:29965 "EHLO merkez" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [212.175.115.1] with ESMTP id S22WXHHUDCQMCLIW (ORCPT ); Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:53:17 +0200 Message-ID: <06873FA0.99672C1B@nozemalki.nl> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:52:47 +0200 From: "caroline Homem" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ladanomo Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Would YOU pay to double the size of your dick? I would! http://www.deutosri.com/
From EdgarwickSchmidt@premiershipunited.com Wed Dec 26 11:23:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Z2u-0005j2-ML; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:23:52 -0500 Received: from dslb-084-057-150-135.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.57.150.135] helo=frankd7fb08581) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7Z2u-0007PV-7g; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:23:52 -0500 Received: from freedman by premiershipunited.com with SMTP id BA7Dy4DpTv for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:23:25 -0100 From: "Angel Ryan" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7kF2-0004xZ-1b for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:21:08 -0500 Received: from [151.72.91.132] (helo=[151.72.83.72]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7kF1-0006sc-8B for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:21:07 -0500 Received: from Carube ([130.146.10.7]:25170 "EHLO Carube" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [151.72.83.72] with ESMTP id S22ZSYIZPXHINNGC (ORCPT ); Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:21:32 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c8483f$e1085ba0$48534897@Carube> From: "kori Heshiki" To: Subject: taworcim Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:20:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84848.42CCC3A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84848.42CCC3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable greeting pana-archive ciiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiisssssssssss http://readground.com kori Heshiki ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84848.42CCC3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
greeting pana-archive
ciiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiisssssssss= ss
http://readground.com
kori Heshiki
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C84848.42CCC3A0-- From thebrewer@ms10.hinet.net Thu Dec 27 03:55:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7oW8-0005aG-2r for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:55:04 -0500 Received: from [89.5.105.200] (helo=dynamic.dsl.nesma.net.sa) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7oW7-0003Sx-7K for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:55:04 -0500 Received: from laas ([149.203.158.51]) by dynamic.dsl.nesma.net.sa with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:55:01 +0300 Message-ID: <47736865.6010606@ms10.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:55:01 +0300 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: It's the new Year Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Happy New Year To You! http://newyearcards2008.com/ From iaj@bluemoonohio.com Thu Dec 27 04:16:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7orA-0005Zi-Nr; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 04:16:48 -0500 Received: from [85.103.78.137] (helo=[85.103.78.137]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7or9-0004fW-Ly; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 04:16:48 -0500 Received: from [85.103.78.137] by mx00.1and1.com; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:16:52 +0200 Message-ID: <01c84879$fb096a00$894e6755@iaj> From: "Nicholas Hand" To: Subject: Re: Hand Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:16:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3338.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3338.1 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Perhaps she really likes it the longer you can go, help her and you out. http://www.Lizwestarsoo.com is not obliged to to learn how those develop problem-solving are providing a variety of "secret language" discover From LorenzodeuterateChandler@thrudheim.org Thu Dec 27 05:04:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7pb5-0007s9-1p; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:04:15 -0500 Received: from [218.234.223.71] (helo=userpc.local) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7pb2-0005o7-HI; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:04:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host13919193.thrudheim.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id BXe9zCys82.648282.Qdb.a09.8375720097348 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:03:33 -0900 Message-ID: <1a75501c8486f$ce03bba0$020aa8c0@userpc> From: "Orlando Keller" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:03:33 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1A751_01C8486F.CE03BBA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1A751_01C8486F.CE03BBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often. Learn More Now ------=_NextPart_000_1A751_01C8486F.CE03BBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_1A751_01C8486F.CE03BBA0-- From Kvrzicaend@mj-law.com Thu Dec 27 06:15:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7qiA-0002AR-6v for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:15:38 -0500 Received: from ppp-237-192.32-151.iol.it ([151.32.192.237] helo=ppp-230-196.32-151.iol.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7qi9-0007lH-GY for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:15:37 -0500 Received: from acer-fed0a54eeb ([166.130.93.119] helo=acer-fed0a54eeb) by ppp-230-196.32-151.iol.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1vpKtk-000BOP-QV for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:16:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c84879$d01ca500$e6c42097@acerfed0a54eeb> From: "Lashley Kvrzica" To: Subject: samekkof Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:15:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C84882.31E10D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C84882.31E10D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wazzup pana-archive New year saaaaleeee for viiiaaaagrrraaaaa http://canround.com Lashley Kvrzica ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C84882.31E10D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wazzup pana-archive
New year saaaaleeee for = viiiaaaagrrraaaaa
http://canround.com
Lashley Kvrzica
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C84882.31E10D00-- From SebastianhoneLara@autobloggreen.com Thu Dec 27 08:02:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7sO0-000751-DB; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:02:56 -0500 Received: from host81-152-1-86.range81-152.btcentralplus.com ([81.152.1.86] helo=yourntjdlffqll.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7sO0-0001hy-0Z; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:02:56 -0500 Received: from abigail by autobloggreen.com with SMTP id HH78Ev5iL0 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:02:27 +0000 From: "Scot Gentry" To: Subject: Join your new casino paradise Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de We give out BONUSES to anyone who joins. Get to know your new casino home! We pay you to play. Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $2400 richer when you join. http://goldgreatgambling.net/ From scdaaqix@bombiadesign.com Thu Dec 27 10:45:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7uvM-0000X2-Jx; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0500 Received: from [200.75.29.28] (helo=[200.75.29.28]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7uvL-00065q-EK; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0500 Received: from [200.75.29.28] by mx2.supremebox.com; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:45:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:45:30 -0400 From: "Savannah Boyer" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.01) Personal Reply-To: scdaaqix@bombiadesign.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <922878355.52406100230571@bombiadesign.com> To: ospf-wireless-design@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Savannah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 You know your girl really likes it the longer you can go, help her and yourself out. http://www.Longerstonez.com can be awarded between Decorator, Facade play is a simple are unregulated and You'll easily counter with your these things, will From Littlejohnhlay@mittaghaus.com.br Thu Dec 27 11:19:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7vSa-0002dU-2q for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:19:52 -0500 Received: from athedsl-01227.home.otenet.gr ([87.202.4.211] helo=athedsl-336743.home.otenet.gr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7vSZ-0006yz-CZ for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:19:51 -0500 Received: from PC584 ([158.114.189.40]:23977 "EHLO PC584" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by athedsl-336743.home.otenet.gr with ESMTP id S22ZXQCVMJMIVPUP (ORCPT ); Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:20:10 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:19:59 +0200 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Geno Littlejohn" Subject: nguaitic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Upsize your penis the painless way! http://www.cutimuss.com/ From tequila.pp@seznam.cz Thu Dec 27 13:27:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7xS2-0003dO-RL; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:27:26 -0500 Received: from [89.137.249.152] (helo=computer) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7xS1-0002FN-HQ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:27:26 -0500 Received: from [89.137.249.152] by mx2.seznam.cz; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:27:25 +0200 From: "Ramiro Calderon" To: Subject: Increase Your PenisWidth(Girth) By upto20% Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:27:25 +0200 Message-ID: <01c848c6$e43d3480$98f98959@tequila.pp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 FDA Approved http://rotuebu.com From Hitoshi889@evairolarafesta.com.br Thu Dec 27 16:36:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J80Od-0004eA-9V for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:36:07 -0500 Received: from [201.73.95.14] (helo=[201.73.95.14]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J80Oc-0007a9-1V for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:36:06 -0500 Received: by 10.239.10.229 with SMTP id NpmxVHqInrBtz; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:36:08 -0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.195.130 with SMTP id anvmnsZRFqIBLd.9693553784229; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:36:06 -0200 (GMT) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:36:03 -0200 From: "Hitoshi Coyle" Reply-To: "Hitoshi Coyle" Message-ID: <515054305665.725499863014@evairolarafesta.com.br> To: Subject: odnemrot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Greeting pana-archive nothing but net with viiiargra http://coverdistant.com Hitoshi Coyle From KaitlingeophysicsLandis@naturespath.com Thu Dec 27 18:47:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J82Rz-0005E8-Ef; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:47:43 -0500 Received: from 84.121.152.106.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.121.152.106] helo=pc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J82Ry-00022f-Tr; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:47:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host12414189.naturespath.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id H9QYgfYJ98.487927.dwt.UtA.2346200222233 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:47:09 -0100 Message-ID: <4a9001c848e2$dbaa02a0$0a00a8c0@pc> From: "Brigitte Mclain" To: Cc: , =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_4A8C_01C848E2.DBAA02A0-- From jklatt@sdycs.org Fri Dec 28 04:27:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8BUb-0004C5-Ku; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:27:01 -0500 Received: from [79.139.203.167] (helo=home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8BUa-0007H9-3O; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:27:01 -0500 Received: from [79.139.203.167] by sdycs.org.inbound10.mxlogic.net; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:26:02 +0300 From: "Doreen Salazar" To: Subject: See our store Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:26:02 +0300 Message-ID: <01c8494c$cf0ae900$a7cb8b4f@jklatt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2905 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Great Gift ideas online Top Quality for Men, Women and Kids http://synewperiod.com their bellies, they're out cold, instantaneously Sculpting each tree to fit your ghostly form Brush the lone giant in that somber pall. From ivany@tit.ws Fri Dec 28 09:29:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8GD8-0002hz-Nt for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:29:18 -0500 Received: from [80.90.20.113] (helo=[80.90.20.113]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8GD7-0000be-Un for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:29:18 -0500 Received: from irenaxp ([167.115.183.78] helo=irenaxp) by [80.90.20.113] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1ygazI-000FGN-Oy for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:29:32 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c8495e$080ecbc0$71145a50@irenaxp> From: "hikmet ivany" To: Subject: christ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:29:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8496E.CB979BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8496E.CB979BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello pana-archive stay hard in 2008 with biagra http://buildand.com hikmet ivany ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8496E.CB979BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hello pana-archive
stay hard in 2008 with biagra
http://buildand.com
hikmet ivany
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8496E.CB979BC0-- From ChandravicissitudeLundy@prwatch.org Fri Dec 28 09:42:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8GPn-0003zY-2I; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:42:23 -0500 Received: from dxb-as66635.alshamil.net.ae ([86.97.127.87] helo=intel.domain.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8GPm-0000vj-Fs; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:42:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host30329749.prwatch.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id zrTyi2Ki13.444275.t3w.IEL.0496041276007 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:38:10 -0400 Message-ID: <7729101c8495f$6852d980$03fea8c0@intel> From: "Tia Shaver" To: , =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_7728D_01C8495F.6852D980-- From oceunsdgyp@borsamerciroma.com Fri Dec 28 11:22:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Hyc-0005fe-MQ; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:22:26 -0500 Received: from [88.230.208.179] (helo=dsl88.230-53427.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Hyb-0003zE-0q; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:22:25 -0500 Received: from [88.230.208.179] by smtp.borsamerciroma.com; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:22:24 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:22:24 +0200 From: "Kirk Patel" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.0.15) Professional Reply-To: oceunsdgyp@borsamerciroma.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <302327022.25636882333245@borsamerciroma.com> To: p2prg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Kirk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Improve you and your women, show them a huge you. http://www.liwersz.com it was investigating your splits of Design Patterns so load their it would be useful In their native or just romping From pvolls@bluestemfarmandranch.com Fri Dec 28 12:02:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Ibi-0003gw-2Z; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:02:50 -0500 Received: from [190.8.203.32] (helo=PERSONAL) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Ibg-0004xz-Tp; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:02:49 -0500 Received: from [190.8.203.32] by smtp.secureserver.net; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:02:53 -0500 Message-ID: <01c84949$93225480$20cb08be@pvolls> From: "Ida Dorsey" To: Subject: Re: Dorsey Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:02:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071227-0, 27/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Help yourself and your girl, show her a spectacular you. http://www.fiedoredi.com the organisations be wrong (and what so many parents complaint. However it (and too short) to spend in preschool From Manske@dgjonesme.com Fri Dec 28 13:04:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8JZF-0004em-2v for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:04:21 -0500 Received: from [151.44.214.146] (helo=[151.44.214.146]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8JZE-0006sT-Db for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:04:20 -0500 Received: from luigicomp ([106.196.143.10]:31610 "EHLO luigicomp" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [151.44.214.146] with ESMTP id S22FKCOHEXIEILYP (ORCPT ); Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:04:40 +0100 Message-ID: <74F8F361.7D6F1A3F@dgjonesme.com> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:04:23 +0100 From: "marcello Manske" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: kcurts-w Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed African bushmen reveal their secrets on how to get a BIG penis. http://lepuseten.com/
From tehran-im-enquiry@international.gc.ca Fri Dec 28 17:19:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8NYb-00008l-9D for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:19:57 -0500 Received: from [58.185.210.208] (helo=PC16) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8NYa-0000zH-4z for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:19:57 -0500 Received: from [58.185.210.208] by mail2.international.gc.ca; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:25:29 +0800 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:25:29 +0800 From: "Adrian Hays" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.51) Educational Reply-To: tehran-im-enquiry@international.gc.ca X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <989180145.60907578175318@international.gc.ca> To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Drill Sun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Help you and your women, show her a big you. http://www.fouasdme.com better at solving software Something more fun. From etouujyn@borgarplast.com Fri Dec 28 18:34:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Oij-0005ob-BH; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:34:29 -0500 Received: from [60.54.3.86] (helo=[60.54.3.86]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Oii-0003r3-4w; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:34:29 -0500 Received: from [60.54.3.86] by pylle.simnet.is; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:34:28 +0800 From: "Susanna Herman" To: Subject: Re: a new academy Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:34:28 +0800 Message-ID: <01c849ed$3e381a00$5603363c@etouujyn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071227-0, 12/27/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 All Med*s onsale 100% safe and fast shipping http://ranmiddles.com From TracishooflyBetts@ncadv.org Fri Dec 28 23:29:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8TKO-0001oJ-Kl; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:29:40 -0500 Received: from c-67-172-55-248.hsd1.oh.comcast.net ([67.172.55.248] helo=lisaauer.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8TKO-0000vY-AN; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:29:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host29143048.ncadv.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Ea4GeYT192.618702.Tx8.KYd.0691879668147 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:28:51 +0500 Message-ID: <6f2ae01c849d3$6d8c7db0$6501a8c0@LisaAuer> From: "Lora Doss" To: Cc: , =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_6F2AA_01C849D3.6D8C7DB0-- From Junko.BANDI@eternalsports.com Sat Dec 29 00:52:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8UcH-0002sp-PB for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:52:13 -0500 Received: from host63-135-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([82.59.135.63] helo=host213-111-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8UcH-0002Xp-4j for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:52:13 -0500 Received: from your-a47779be2c by eternalsports.com with ASMTP id 7307B602 for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:52:21 +0100 Received: from your-a47779be2c ([111.128.140.161]) by eternalsports.com with ESMTP id 9177DDD80231 for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:52:21 +0100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:52:11 +0100 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Junko BANDI" Subject: troverts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Did you see the shock on my friend's face when he saw my magic rod in my pants? http://www.vreypro.com/ From HesterfeasibleShipman@scottberkun.com Sat Dec 29 03:51:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8XPL-0002GN-Sv; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:51:03 -0500 Received: from [190.18.216.115] (helo=pc84ebb0a7b276) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8XPL-0005i4-9m; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:51:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host21651629.scottberkun.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id NI8yYiTk61.580389.u7J.Ji2.9103785451316 for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:50:37 +0300 Message-ID: <3b82901c849f7$ef603ab0$73d812be@pc84ebb0a7b276> From: "Juliet Means" To: Cc: , =20

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better=20 sex more often.
Learn More Now

------=_NextPart_000_3B825_01C849F7.EF603AB0-- From keld631@suk.pl Sat Dec 29 04:33:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Y4m-0001fJ-U7 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:33:52 -0500 Received: from [190.43.63.197] (helo=[190.43.63.197]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8Y4m-0006qQ-ES for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:33:52 -0500 Received: from casa ([151.138.101.100] helo=casa) by [190.43.63.197] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1eaUPu-000NFI-Bu for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:34:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c849fd$ea9c1430$c53f2bbe@casa> From: "keld ersan" To: Subject: plusylop Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:33:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C849D4.01C60C30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C849D4.01C60C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good evening pana-archive We wish you a happy new year with viiiiiiaaaaaggggraaaa http://horsecould.com keld ersan ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C849D4.01C60C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good evening pana-archive
We wish you a happy new year with=20 viiiiiiaaaaaggggraaaa
http://horsecould.com
keld ersan
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C849D4.01C60C30-- From myrtlebeverley6@lamer.com Sat Dec 29 10:39:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8dmz-0007el-TI for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:39:53 -0500 Received: from cable-87-116-180-246.dynamic.sbb.co.yu ([87.116.180.246] helo=87.116.180.246) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8dmz-0003tH-DP for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:39:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c84a31$07f12379$cb9df188@odjyqoq> From: "austen ben" To: "Kathleen Triplett" Subject: exclusive watches, lowest prices possible rolex Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:55:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://picknewyear.net/ From Estesaonqh@ballroomblitz.ca Sat Dec 29 10:41:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8dok-0000jH-O1 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:41:42 -0500 Received: from [87.13.134.185] (helo=host185-134-dynamic.13-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8dok-0003vR-1o for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:41:42 -0500 Received: from computer-pxs0lj ([122.103.19.121] helo=computer-pxs0lj) by host185-134-dynamic.13-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1Slszj-000ZWP-OU for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:42:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c84a31$4eb64480$b9860d57@computerpxs0lj> From: "ashur Estes" To: Subject: umfangst Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:41:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84A39.B07AAC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84A39.B07AAC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello pana-archive We wish you a happy new year with viiiiiiaaaaaggggraaaa http://horsecould.com ashur Estes ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84A39.B07AAC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello pana-archive
We wish you a happy new year with=20 viiiiiiaaaaaggggraaaa
http://horsecould.com
ashur Estes
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84A39.B07AAC80-- From twrq@blinc.com Sat Dec 29 11:31:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8eav-0005E0-Dx for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:31:29 -0500 Received: from [85.97.145.19] (helo=dsl.dynamic859714519.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8eau-00054C-2O for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:31:28 -0500 Received: from [85.97.145.19] by smx.blinc.com.redcondor.net; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:37:01 +0200 Message-ID: <01c84a49$ccda8480$13916155@twrq> From: "Suzanne Denton" To: Subject: Freeway Jet fighter Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:37:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Improve yourself and your woman, show them a larger you. http://www.sevoqmwe.com what to expect--a visually-rich Singleton isn't as simple as it From Larissa-Buettner@equestrianmag.com Sat Dec 29 17:01:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8jk0-0001sy-A4 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:01:12 -0500 Received: from [124.54.133.23] (helo=[124.54.133.23]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8jjz-00046r-Ch for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:01:12 -0500 Received: from samsung-eavhvia by equestrianmag.com with ASMTP id C26494E6 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:01:53 +0900 Received: from samsung-eavhvia ([126.188.147.139]) by equestrianmag.com with ESMTP id 802588A5A74C for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:01:53 +0900 Message-ID: <000601c84a66$549a0a00$1785367c@samsungeavhvia> From: "Larissa Buettner" To: Subject: nybanded Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:01:14 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84AB1.C481B200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84AB1.C481B200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good evening pana-archive more saaatisfaction - more viiiiiaaaaaagra http://coverdistant.com Larissa Buettner ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84AB1.C481B200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good evening pana-archive
more saaatisfaction - more = viiiiiaaaaaagra
http://coverdistant.com
Larissa Buettner
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C84AB1.C481B200-- From RoycutoutWood@airhand.com Sat Dec 29 21:34:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8o0Z-0006vX-EA; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:34:35 -0500 Received: from [201.230.76.43] (helo=cesar77248f273) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8o0Z-0001ZI-1v; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:34:35 -0500 Received: from assemble by airhand.com with SMTP id FPL4E92Jb2 for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:33:57 +0500 From: "Lawrence Ward" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8qHH-0005MD-Fp; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:59:59 -0500 Received: from pool-72-89-79-179.nycmny.fios.verizon.net ([72.89.79.179] helo=d7ndklb1.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8qHH-0003sM-6X; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:59:59 -0500 Received: from anarch by marketwatch.com with SMTP id 8OmQj5xHtA for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:59:39 +0500 From: "Johnathan Hubbard" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8t7n-0000CD-H1; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 03:02:23 -0500 Received: from [59.182.235.198] (helo=ramesh2013c0f6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8t7m-0006LX-Li; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 03:02:23 -0500 Received: from vaughn by economist.com with SMTP id zRUQkt6gbH for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:31:56 -0530 From: "Delmar Chen" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8xZd-0007pf-82; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:47:25 -0500 Received: from [58.174.202.206] (helo=laura.sa.bigpond.net.au) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8xZc-0008DN-KI; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:47:25 -0500 Received: from lifestyle by wiktionary.org with SMTP id 4IbK8gdPIQ for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:16:42 -0930 From: "Mae Carlton" To: Subject: Get $2400 you download our casino. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de After thatit's only fun and winning. $2400 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! We know how to treat our players - how about a $2400 welcome bonmus when you join? Relax and have fun with poker, blackjack, roulette, progressive video slots at your own leisure from your couch. http://bonusgoldcasino.net/ From abs@rebaa.com Sun Dec 30 10:10:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8zoF-0001Uk-Tc; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:10:39 -0500 Received: from [196.28.255.67] (helo=SERVEUR1) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J8zoE-0001iN-CE; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:10:39 -0500 Received: from [196.28.255.67] by mailserver.rebaa.com; , 30 Dec 2007 16:09:37 +0100 Message-ID: <01c84afe$5ffaf510$43ff1cc4@abs> From: "Sally Leonard" To: Subject: Re: Spot Light Date: , 30 Dec 2007 16:09:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2730.2 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Med_s are all onsale today Save Time and Money, 100% safe http://fellstrong.com From lissrj@brad.fieldgroup.com Sun Dec 30 13:11:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92ct-0000yL-OM; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:11:07 -0500 Received: from p5082760c.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.130.118.12]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92cs-0004hq-G2; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:11:07 -0500 Received: from [80.130.118.12] by mail.fieldgroup.com; , 30 Dec 2007 19:11:06 +0100 From: "Seymour Kruse" To: Subject: Re: at the beach Date: , 30 Dec 2007 19:11:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QR1I1V52O6RRXCPTHJH0T7T1J9== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Message-ID: <01c84b17$ba2e8100$0c768250@lissrj> X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea All popular drugs are available - World Wide Shipping- Do not pass! Valid only the for few days No Doctor Visits- No Prescriptions- 100% Customer Satisfaction- Cheapest http://turnbetween.com From Truong_Q@kimballtaylor.com Sun Dec 30 13:17:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92jO-0000jE-88 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:17:50 -0500 Received: from [88.254.126.238] (helo=[88.254.126.238]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92jN-0004qd-5X for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:17:50 -0500 Received: from a-b0b8dcfdb21f4 ([116.186.83.96]:1637 "EHLO a-b0b8dcfdb21f4" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [88.254.126.238] with ESMTP id S22JJJNTNKSHLAJE (ORCPT ); Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:18:27 +0200 Message-ID: <3474D128.35407C23@kimballtaylor.com> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:17:56 +0200 From: "Truong Q" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pana-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: fwillful Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000204060505040401080208" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------000204060505040401080208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your new improved dick is only a week's delivery away! http://www.bluntaur.com/ --------------000204060505040401080208 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your new improved dick is only a week's delivery away! http://www.bluntaur.com/
--------------000204060505040401080208-- From VondapercentageGoodson@idautomation.com Sun Dec 30 13:41:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9368-0004Oy-Le; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:41:20 -0500 Received: from p508dc636.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.141.198.54] helo=buqe) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9368-0005P7-5N; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:41:20 -0500 Received: from calcine by idautomation.com with SMTP id sGa9lxWA45 for ; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:40:57 -0100 From: "Felecia Lunsford" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Bou-0001HK-SE; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:00:09 -0500 Received: from [58.102.205.65] (helo=133e6115b5054f4) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Bot-0000dh-OT; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:00:08 -0500 Received: from [58.102.205.65] by smtp.secureserver.net; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:59:06 +0900 Message-ID: <01c84bac$ecd68900$41cd663a@randy> From: "Leonor Cantrell" To: Subject: Re: Tennis racquet Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:59:06 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Med_s are all onsale today Save Time and Money, 100% safe http://ranmiddles.com From duanEidrigevicius@bp101.com Mon Dec 31 01:35:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9EFa-0007EQ-G7 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:35:50 -0500 Received: from [84.255.171.120] (helo=[82.194.62.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9EFZ-0002c5-K0 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:35:50 -0500 Received: from MN ([125.144.108.163]:21677 "EHLO MN" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [82.194.62.227] with ESMTP id S22SBZMCVSEHFZBT (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:36:12 +0300 Message-ID: <000601c84b77$5fc756f0$e33ec252@MN> From: "duan Eidrigevicius" To: Subject: ieredegn Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:35:46 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84B90.85148EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84B90.85148EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good evening pana-archive tttooooop viiiiaaagrraaaaasale http://howremember.com duan Eidrigevicius ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84B90.85148EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good evening pana-archive
tttooooop viiiiaaagrraaaaasale
http://howremember.com
duan Eidrigevicius
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84B90.85148EF0-- From TheodorecoupBurns@greens.org Mon Dec 31 07:38:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ju5-0007Fc-Gl; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:38:01 -0500 Received: from [85.105.136.50] (helo=kardiyoloji2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ju5-0003Bm-2q; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:38:01 -0500 Received: from pariah by greens.org with SMTP id SCZO1RlGRN for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:36:35 -0200 From: "Miguel Dunn" To: Subject: Play your favorite games and get $2400 welcome bonus. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Play your favorite games and get $2400 welcome bonus. $2400 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! We pay you to play. Get $2400 you download our casino. http://bonusgoldcasino.net/ From AndresblessDennis@btlbooks.com Mon Dec 31 09:18:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9LTX-0002jg-6L; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:18:43 -0500 Received: from d38-245-94.home1.cgocable.net ([72.38.245.94] helo=homecxjkohrxyw) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9LTW-0005uV-M5; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:18:42 -0500 Received: from glutamate by btlbooks.com with SMTP id OFjZoDQfRt for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:18:04 +0500 From: "Kerry Garner" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9MgZ-0006Mw-CT for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:36:15 -0500 Received: from [222.244.100.87] (helo=[222.244.100.87]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9MgN-0007qe-91 for pana-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:36:15 -0500 Received: from dcb by j-forest.net with ASMTP id 038CF2DD for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:36:28 +0800 Received: from dcb ([154.134.129.118]) by j-forest.net with ESMTP id 9B77041C2272 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:36:28 +0800 Message-ID: <000c01c84c8c$0b289300$5764f4de@dcb> From: "Mun Kamilis" To: Subject: ivrjsipl Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:36:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84CCF.194BD300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84CCF.194BD300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello pana-archive To get your dream g1rl use our metds http://buildand.com Mun Kamilis ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84CCF.194BD300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hello pana-archive
To get your dream g1rl use our = metds
http://buildand.com
Mun Kamilis
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C84CCF.194BD300-- From BradybeckmanGrimes@fandango.com Mon Dec 31 11:11:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NF7-0001V6-Ub; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0500 Received: from 85.137.60.106.dyn.user.ono.com ([85.137.60.106] helo=aplitecs) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NF7-0000GX-0s; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0500 Received: from edinburgh by fandango.com with SMTP id Wpy2rHHlsr for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:10:58 -0100 From: "Wilfredo Shields" To: Subject: Free money free fun. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 We give out BONUSES to anyone who joins. Play your favorite games from the comfort of your home, USA players ARE included! How about the best service around? Play your favorite games from the comfort of your home, USA players ARE included! http://worldacasino.com.cn/ From sdtxecpsh@blueglas.com Mon Dec 31 12:25:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OOZ-0002qv-Nm; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:25:47 -0500 Received: from [190.68.18.193] (helo=[190.68.18.193]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OOY-00027X-KC; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:25:47 -0500 Received: from [190.68.18.193] by mx1.mail.twtelecom.net; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:22:47 -0500 From: "Henrietta Dunbar" To: Subject: Re: Feather Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:22:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01c84ba7$da0d8580$c11244be@sdtxecpsh> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Have better sex yours and her sex life. women, love time with them at last you. http://www.chuesolk.com Electricity From teqnology@q-dance.nl Mon Dec 31 13:56:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9PoM-0003GE-FP; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:56:30 -0500 Received: from nm-htsh-2958b.adsl.wanadoo.nl ([83.116.51.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9PoL-0003z8-H1; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:56:30 -0500 Received: from [83.116.51.139] by mx1.q-dance.nl; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:56:27 +0100 From: "Justin Pearce" To: Subject: Doctor Approved And Recommended Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:56:27 +0100 Message-ID: <01c84be7$3a6fe780$8b337453@teqnology> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4115 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Gain 3+ Inches In Length http://rotuebu.com From SherrienglishmenBowden@tremblingbeforeg-d.com Mon Dec 31 17:05:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9SlI-0001uh-Km; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:05:32 -0500 Received: from [190.80.226.149] (helo=carlo.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9SlH-0007jK-As; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:05:31 -0500 Received: from vein by tremblingbeforeg-d.com with SMTP id K12ZWHUddM for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:04:19 -0100 From: "Leona Lovell" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ulx-0002GP-FO; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:14:21 -0500 Received: from p4fd245ec.dip.t-dialin.net ([79.210.69.236] helo=olidatamjk3r.speedportw700v) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ulx-0001ZU-2o; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:14:21 -0500 Received: from cocoon by thesocalledme.net with SMTP id UCldVnIYA5 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 01:14:07 -0100 From: "Bettie Akins" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Wuf-0003Xy-Ga; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:31:29 -0500 Received: from cpe-071-070-201-105.nc.res.rr.com ([71.70.201.105] helo=jakedasnake398) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Wuf-0003o3-AF; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:31:29 -0500 Received: from homeward by brainyquote.com with SMTP id qn9mq62VgX for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:31:08 +0500 From: "Earnestine Kimble" To: Subject: How about a $2400 welcome bonus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Come find out. We have it all! USA players too! Download and GO! $2400 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! http://bonusgoldcasino.net/ From inlines@travelcalistoga.com Mon Dec 31 23:43:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Yyk-00062F-MP; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:43:50 -0500 Received: from chello062179038239.chello.pl ([62.179.38.239] helo=computername.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Yyi-0005le-Ug; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:43:50 -0500 Received: from [62.179.38.239] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:42:47 +0100 From: "Zelma Dodge" To: Subject: Cycle Date: Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:42:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6QRZI8T22P4V85ZTXU9JW3OH9A2== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Message-ID: <00defd44$14710000$ef26b33e@inlines> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Med^s are all on-sale today Save Time and Money, 100% safe http://turnbetween.com