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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Dec 03 17:35:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJrh-0008Kr-Ms; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:34:13 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJrg-0008Ig-Ks for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:34:12 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJrg-0008IS-BA for mpls@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:34:12 -0500 Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.203.46]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJrf-00015J-UY for mpls@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:34:12 -0500 Received: (qmail 12385 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 22:34:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AMALIS.verizon.net) (agmalis@verizon.net@130.129.36.121 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 22:34:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DoB5axkVM1km.kvZJ9zb3xifnUAcyXA8tOqmmF9rRZ.j102MjJGDhVKKMT57gDfBShyBTH43RnWN0TBXC2chcWGaynUob0U_xIzWgXSYPFub83vrp9k- X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:33:02 -0500 To: mpls@lists.ietf.org From: "Andrew G. Malis" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Message-Id: Cc: Subject: [mpls] Kicking off discussion of draft-berzin-malis-mpls-mobility-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org In today's MPLS WG meeting, Oleg Berzin presented draft-berzin-malis-mpls-mobility-00.txt. If you missed the meeting, or would like a copy of the slides, I've put them online at http://mysite.verizon.net/agmalis/files/draft-berzin-malis-mpls-mobility-00.pdf until they're available at http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/70/ . This email is, according to Loa's comments at the meeting, meant to kick off two discussions: 1. Does this work belong in the MPLS WG, and if it does, should the group be re-chartered to include MPLS mobility issues? 2. This is also a call for technical comments on the draft itself. At this point, Oleg and I are primarily interested in feedback on the overall architecture we selected to take advantage of existing components in the MPLS tool set to meet the requirements discussed both in the talk and the presentation. Thanks much, Andy _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Dec 03 19:48:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLwA-00004r-Fc; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:46:58 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLw8-0008Vj-Tk for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:46:56 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLw8-0008VG-IC for mpls@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:46:56 -0500 Received: from smtp.testbed.se ([80.86.78.228] helo=fw.testbed.se) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLw8-0000d9-6z for mpls@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:46:56 -0500 Received: from MailerDaemon by fw.testbed.se with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLw6-0005kz-W8 for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:46:54 +0100 Received: from [130.129.86.87] (port=2491) by fw.testbed.se with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLw4-0005kY-Vh for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:46:53 +0100 Message-ID: <4754A375.3070109@pi.se> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:46:45 +0100 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0205.4754A2FB.0014,ss=1,fgs=0 X-cff-SpamScore: 0(/) X-cff-SpamReport: ----- ----- Message is unknown to the spam scanner. X-cff-LastScanner: footer X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: Subject: [mpls] working group early review of draft-ietf-mpls-mpls-and-gmpls-security-framework-01.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Working Group, at the working group meeting today we agreed that it is time for a *working group early review* of the draft-ietf-mpls-mpls-and-gmpls-security-framework-01.txt We want the working group participants to take the time to carefully read and comment on the draft. Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. Loa and George -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From avelino296@souvenirsofengland.net Tue Dec 04 15:14:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzeA3-0003s9-Jq for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:14:31 -0500 Received: from x96c9.x.pppool.de ([89.59.150.201] helo=Xd520.x.pppool.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzeA3-0002as-3j for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:14:31 -0500 Received: from buero ([155.107.83.27] helo=buero) by Xd520.x.pppool.de ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1knPxg-000GUU-fo for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:12:51 +0100 Message-ID: <42BA3A51.38102E54@souvenirsofengland.net> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:12:27 +0100 From: "avelino Noir" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: magenver Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Remember, size matters, when it comes to being a real man! http://www.ontcur.com/
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This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Link-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved bandwidth across a link Author(s) : J. Vasseur, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-08.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2007-12-05 Several Link-type sub-TLVs have been defined for OSPF and IS-IS in the context of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) in order to advertise some link characteristics such as the available bandwidth, traffic engineering metric, administrative group and so on. By making statistical assumption about the aggregated traffic carried onto a set of TE Label Switched Paths (LSPs) signalled with zero bandwith (referred to as unconstrained TE LSP in this document), and with the knowledge of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a link, algorithms can be designed to load balance (existing or newly configured) unconstrained TE LSP across a set of equal cost paths. This requires knowledge of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a link. This document specifies a new Link-type Traffic Engineering sub-TLV used to advertise the number of unconstrained TE LSP(s) signalled across a link. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-08.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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Thanks, George & Loa ======================================================================== George Swallow Cisco Systems (978) 936-1398 1414 Massachusetts Avenue Boxborough, MA 01719 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 17:13:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kgK-0005El-DN; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:12:56 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kgI-0004zL-D0 for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:12:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kgI-0004xS-1q for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:12:54 -0500 Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4kgH-0000oc-J1 for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:12:54 -0500 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:12:52 PST Received: from emailcorp2.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.12]) by gamma.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:08:47 -0800 Received: from emailcorp3.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.13]) by emailcorp2.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:08:21 -0800 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:08:20 -0800 Message-ID: <7FA0C743C38E5340BFC2873488FA1E8E8B2287@emailcorp3.jnpr.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Feedback for WG DOC status of draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 Thread-Index: AchBr85TvcLZIvX9QDOqPff0jqBTWQAEmWzg From: "Nitin Bahadur" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 22:08:21.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[803F6BC0:01C841C2] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: Subject: [mpls] Feedback for WG DOC status of draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org WG, We had presented draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 at the Vancouver IETF. The abstract is enclosed below for reference. We would like WG feedback on whether the draft is ready to be adopted as a WG document. If it is not, what needs to be addressed to make it one?=20 Thanks Nitin, George, Kireeti. Abstract: This document describes methods for performing lsp-ping traceroute over mpls tunnels and stitched LSPs. The techniques outlined in RFC 4379 are insufficient to perform correct traceroute validation and path discovery for a LSP that goes over other mpls tunnels. RFC 4379 also does not have any procedures for tracing stitched LSPs. This document describes new procedures that can be used in conjunction with the standard procedures described in RFC 4379 to trace such LSPs. http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls/draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01. txt _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 17:50:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lG2-0000cI-58; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:49:50 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lFz-0000az-VO for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:49:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lFz-0000aq-Hh for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:49:47 -0500 Received: from exprod7og102.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.157]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lFz-00023z-4H for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:49:47 -0500 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob102.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:49:21 PST Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:49:19 -0800 Received: from sapphire.juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id lBIMnJE42671; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rahul@juniper.net) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:49:19 -0800 (PST) From: Rahul Aggarwal To: George Swallow Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call In-Reply-To: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> Message-ID: <20071218144830.U41210@sapphire.juniper.net> References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 22:49:19.0575 (UTC) FILETIME=[399A7E70:01C841C8] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: mpls@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi George, Yes. I believe this draft is ready for WG last call. rahul On Tue, 18 Dec 2007, George Swallow wrote: > Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for MPLS WG last > call. > > Thanks, > > George & Loa > > ======================================================================== > George Swallow Cisco Systems (978) 936-1398 > 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > Boxborough, MA 01719 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 19:20:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mf9-0006k5-1x; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:51 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mf8-0006iH-6u for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mf7-0006i8-Lk for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:49 -0500 Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mf7-0003ce-6r for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:49 -0500 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:40 PST Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:25 -0800 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id lBJ0JPE64825; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200712190019.lBJ0JPE64825@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Nitin Bahadur" Subject: Re: [mpls] Feedback for WG DOC status of draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:08:20 PST." <7FA0C743C38E5340BFC2873488FA1E8E8B2287@emailcorp3.jnpr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <51756.1198023564.1@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:25 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 00:19:25.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF87B9F0:01C841D4] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: mpls@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Nitin, George, and Kireeti, > WG, > > We had presented draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 at the > Vancouver IETF. The abstract is enclosed below for reference. We would > like WG feedback on whether the draft is ready to be adopted as a WG > document. If it is not, what needs to be addressed to make it one? > > Thanks > Nitin, George, Kireeti. I think the draft is ready to be accepted as an MPLS WG document. Yakov. > > Abstract: > This document describes methods for performing lsp-ping traceroute over > mpls tunnels and stitched LSPs. The techniques outlined in RFC 4379 are > insufficient to perform correct traceroute validation and path discovery > for a LSP that goes over other mpls tunnels. RFC 4379 also does not have > any procedures for tracing stitched LSPs. This document describes new > procedures that can be used in conjunction with the standard procedures > described in RFC 4379 to trace such LSPs. > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls/draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01. > txt > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 19:20:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mel-0006bV-Ts; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:27 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mej-0006bP-RK for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:25 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mej-0006bH-GE for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:25 -0500 Received: from exprod7og105.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.163]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4mej-0003cF-4C for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:19:25 -0500 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:17:59 PST Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:18:21 -0800 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id lBJ0ILE64629; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:18:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200712190018.lBJ0ILE64629@magenta.juniper.net> To: George Swallow Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:09:09 EST." <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <51513.1198023501.1@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:18:21 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 00:18:21.0376 (UTC) FILETIME=[A990A400:01C841D4] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Cc: mpls@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org George, > Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for MPLS WG last > call. I think the draft is ready for MPLS WG last call. Yakov. _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 20:17:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4nYo-0001pz-Gb; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:22 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4nYm-0001pm-S5 for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:20 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4nYm-0001pc-ER for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:20 -0500 Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.169]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4nYm-0004Z1-0J for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:20 -0500 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:17:17 PST Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:16:45 -0800 Received: from sapphire.juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id lBJ1GjE77440; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:16:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rahul@juniper.net) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:16:45 -0800 (PST) From: Rahul Aggarwal To: Nitin Bahadur Subject: Re: [mpls] Feedback for WG DOC status of draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 In-Reply-To: <200712190019.lBJ0JPE64825@magenta.juniper.net> Message-ID: <20071218171436.K41210@sapphire.juniper.net> References: <200712190019.lBJ0JPE64825@magenta.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 01:16:45.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[D20199F0:01C841DC] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: mpls@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org I believe draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 is ready to be adopted as a WG document. rahul On Tue, 18 Dec 2007, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > Nitin, George, and Kireeti, > > > WG, > > > > We had presented draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01 at the > > Vancouver IETF. The abstract is enclosed below for reference. We would > > like WG feedback on whether the draft is ready to be adopted as a WG > > document. If it is not, what needs to be addressed to make it one? > > > > Thanks > > Nitin, George, Kireeti. > > > > Abstract: > > This document describes methods for performing lsp-ping traceroute over > > mpls tunnels and stitched LSPs. The techniques outlined in RFC 4379 are > > insufficient to perform correct traceroute validation and path discovery > > for a LSP that goes over other mpls tunnels. RFC 4379 also does not have > > any procedures for tracing stitched LSPs. This document describes new > > procedures that can be used in conjunction with the standard procedures > > described in RFC 4379 to trace such LSPs. > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls/draft-nitinb-lsp-ping-over-mpls-tunnel-01. > > txt > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@lists.ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From ArturolacertaNorris@momentum.org Tue Dec 18 20:59:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oDV-0007S0-Cx; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:59:25 -0500 Received: from [121.153.71.102] (helo=f7zg9krrq672a0j.kornet) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oDU-0006NL-Rk; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:59:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host63621242.momentum.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id z2fBTwR835.512655.f1x.XPL.8911894571029 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:59:04 -0900 Message-ID: <1cf6401c841e2$c6da78c0$66479979@f7zg9krrq672a0j> From: "Dana Guzman" To: Subject: Your family Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:59:04 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1CF60_01C841E2.C6DA78C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1CF60_01C841E2.C6DA78C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_1CF60_01C841E2.C6DA78C0-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 21:06:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oJL-0006md-HW; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:05:27 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oJJ-0006mP-El for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:05:25 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oJJ-0006mH-3L for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:05:25 -0500 Received: from corp.force10networks.com ([64.186.164.204] helo=mx.force10networks.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4oJI-0006Tk-KB for mpls@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:05:25 -0500 Received: from mx.force10networks.com ([10.11.0.215]) by mx.force10networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:05:19 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:05:16 -0800 Message-ID: <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BEFB1B90@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> In-Reply-To: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwqwJthOR9H+fTA60ed5N0MOmxAAGcz0w References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> From: "Sina Mirtorabi" To: "George Swallow" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 02:05:19.0383 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AFECA70:01C841E3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Geroge, I have two comments - Section 7.2 Impact on routing convergence time, as it is mentioned, the failure of a node will not be propagated outside of the area, and the notification is relied upon LDP (which arguably could be comparable to IGP fast convergence) however the draft should also mention that this would introduce an issue for other protocols convergence that rely on IGP, i.e. BGP. In such a scenario a node failure in the remote area cannot be detected by IGP and the convergence of BGP could significantly be increased, unless other mechanisms are used to convey more specific IGP information.. - The draft should also mention that by announcing more specific FECs across area, it does not remove the suboptimal path introduced by virtue of summarization of PE's loopback. In other word, Inter-area LSP could now take a suboptimal path.=20 Thanks Sina ->-----Original Message----- ->From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]=20 ->Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:09 PM ->To: mpls@ietf.org ->Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call -> ->Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for=20 ->MPLS WG last call. -> ->Thanks, -> ->George & Loa -> ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ->George Swallow Cisco Systems =20 ->(978) 936-1398 -> 1414 Massachusetts Avenue -> Boxborough, MA 01719 -> -> -> -> ->_______________________________________________ ->mpls mailing list ->mpls@lists.ietf.org ->https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls -> -> -> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From AhmedhugeLangley@nature.com Wed Dec 19 02:41:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4tYT-0007NA-5p; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:41:25 -0500 Received: from cuscon57641.tstt.net.tt ([190.58.104.75] helo=matrixbfrso3a3.domain.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4tYS-0007r7-P5; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:41:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host73181034.nature.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 9XWkc4NV72.356062.d0Q.Pzj.5000805746118 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:41:06 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Robt Forbes" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_EFE39_01C84212.8D1E31F0-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 04:20:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4v5f-0008Vz-IG; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:19:47 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4v5d-0008Vf-GG for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:19:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4v5d-0008VX-6f for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:19:45 -0500 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4v5b-0007JC-HI for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:19:45 -0500 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:19:15 +0100 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:19:13 +0100 Message-ID: <8AA97249241F7148BE6D3D8B93D83F5A0FF3FAD7@ftrdmel2> In-Reply-To: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwq0YR6hTI0tBRS+uXEINHXbWsQAXXMvA References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> From: "JACQUENET Christian RD-DDEV-REN" To: "George Swallow" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 09:19:15.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[39E3B470:01C84220] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Dear all, I think the draft is ready for WG last call. Cheers, Christian.=20 -----Message d'origine----- De : George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]=20 Envoy=E9 : mardi 18 d=E9cembre 2007 23:09 =C0 : mpls@ietf.org Objet : [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for MPLS WG last = call. Thanks, George & Loa =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D George Swallow Cisco Systems (978) 936-1398 1414 Massachusetts Avenue Boxborough, MA 01719 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 10:03:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J50RB-0001mD-9A; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:21 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J50R9-0001m2-TN for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:19 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J50R9-0001lu-I1 for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:19 -0500 Received: from omzesmtp04.mci.com ([199.249.17.14]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J50R9-0003vO-2W for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:19 -0500 Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.89]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0JTA00BLWXRTZH@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com ([127.0.0.1]) by dgismtp06.mcilink.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.08 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0JTA00J3AXRJ81@dgismtp06.mcilink.com> for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:02:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from XS344V8061891 ([153.39.146.193]) by dgismtp06.mcilink.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.08 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JTA00J50XRDZF@dgismtp06.mcilink.com> for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:02:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:01:59 -0500 From: Dave McDysan Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call In-reply-to: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> To: mpls@ietf.org Message-id: <00a301c84250$1ae17820$76463aa6@mcilink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AchBwsOIh6AgtB/kTs67pODUvesbpwAijoSA References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org I believe that some clarification needs to be added to the draft regarding the conditions under which fault notification operates. Some specific comments are as follows: - Add a statement to section 4, problem statement, indicating that LDP label withdrawal can be used to advertise the state of a PE in a remote, summarized area/level, replacing the function done by the IGP in a flat domain - Section 5: Suggest adding a statement that label withdrawal occurs in the order from the routers adjacent to the failed egress node toward the upstream nodes for the purpose of fault detection. I think there are some other assumptions that are necessary for LDP to support egress PE fault notification, as follows: If multiple paths from some ingress node to the egress node exist with the same cumulative metric (or within an implementation specific threshold that considers them equal), then that ingress node will receive multiple label advertisements to the egress node. If the ingress node uses liberal label retention, then it must wait for all such labels to be withdrawn before declaring the egress PE down. If this is not done, then a link failure along one of the equal cost IGP paths could cause the ingress PE to falsely declare the egress PE down. There are also cases where two links along equal cost IGP paths could fail at nearly the same time, which could cause all labels to an FEC to be withdrawn, and reestablshed shortly thereafter. This behavior will differ from an IGP hello type protocol node failure detection. Therefore, an implementation MAY implement a fault detection timer after receiving withdraw(s) for all prefixes before declaring the egress PE to be down. Furthermore, If the intermediate nodes between the ingress and egress do not all implement liberal label retention, then there may be some delay in waiting for a periodically readvertised label or having to request a label for a particular FEC. Finally, I suggest that a sentence be added stating that the LDP label withgdrawal, or other methods that could be defined by the IETF for use in egress PE fault detection can be selected at the ingress node as a local implementation decision. In my opinion, the above clarifications could be added during last call comment resolution. Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:09 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call > > Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for > MPLS WG last call. > > Thanks, > > George & Loa > > ============================================================== > ========== > George Swallow Cisco Systems > (978) 936-1398 > 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > Boxborough, MA 01719 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From AngeliqueearnestBoudreaux@healing-arts.org Wed Dec 19 10:50:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J51Bw-00046M-L6; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:50:40 -0500 Received: from ita73-2-82-246-15-170.fbx.proxad.net ([82.246.15.170] helo=pcn0) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J51Bw-0005HQ-5r; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:50:40 -0500 Message-ID: <218c01c8425f$48cc3d10$aa0ff652@pcn0> From: "Francesca Hemphill" To: , =20
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------=_NextPart_000_2188_01C8425F.48CC3D10-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 13:39:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J53om-0001SE-9E; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:56 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J53ok-0001Lj-GX for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J53ok-0001JA-4l for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:54 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J53oi-0004Tl-3p for mpls@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:54 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:38:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:38:32 +0100 Message-ID: <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BA6BF@ftrdmel3> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwqwJthOR9H+fTA60ed5N0MOmxAAGcz0wAB8KfBA= References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BEFB1B90@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> From: "DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS" To: "Sina Mirtorabi" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2007 18:38:50.0441 (UTC) FILETIME=[65F46390:01C8426E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 20f22c03b5c66958bff5ef54fcda6e48 Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi Sina, Thanks for your comments. Answers inlined. > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Sina Mirtorabi [mailto:smirtorabi@force10networks.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 19 d=E9cembre 2007 03:05 > =C0=A0: George Swallow; mpls@ietf.org > Objet=A0: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last = call >=20 > Geroge, >=20 >=20 > I have two comments >=20 > - Section 7.2 Impact on routing convergence time, as it is mentioned, > the failure of a node will not be propagated outside of the area, and > the notification is relied upon LDP (which arguably could be = comparable > to IGP fast convergence) however the draft should also mention that = this > would introduce an issue for other protocols convergence that rely on > IGP, i.e. BGP. In such a scenario a node failure in the remote area > cannot be detected by IGP and the convergence of BGP could = significantly > be increased, unless other mechanisms are used to convey more specific > IGP information. 1) Knowledge of the failure: We don't need any other mechanism as LDP will advertise the failure of = the egress node/PE (through the removal of the specific /32 FEC). 2) Use of this knowledge: You're right, upper layer protocols (eg BGP) would need to check MPLS = reachability of the BGP Next-Hop /egress (advertised by LDP) whereas = currently some implementation may eventually only check the IP = reachability (advertise by the IGP). This is mostly out of scope of LDP and MPLS (but rather up to upper = protocols) but you're right this would be better to explicit this. What = about adding: "Note that applications using these MPLS LSPs (eg BGP to reach the BGP = next-hop) need to check the MPLS reachability of these LSP (signaled by = LDP) and not only the IP reachability (signaled by the IGP)". Would this be fine for you? In addition, note that there has been a very recent discussion on this = point during IETF 68 (Prague) in the IDR WG (BGP) regarding the draft = draft-asati-bgp-mpls-blackhole-avoidance-00. In short, most people were = considering that BGP may/should already check MPLS availability of the = Next-Hop if BGP needs an LSP to reach the next-hop of the destination = prefix (NLRI). (For additional information, following lines are relevant extracts form = the minutes: "- Yakov -- LHD is outside scope of BGP, base spec doesn't talk about = how to interact with ANY other protocols. Sounds like you want this WG = to change route selection algorithm. [...] - Chandra -- maybe we need to say that implementations should be smart = about interpreting what "next hop reachability means" - Yakov -- exactly. They shouldn't be dogmatic when reading the BGP = spec. - ??? (name not stated at mic) -- I agree with Yakov. I suggest this is = informational. LDP black holing is an implementation problem. I think = that this is very helpful. [...] - John Scudder -- fundamental premise OK but seems like a lot of =20 pages to make a simple point, and too much implementation details. =20 Isn't basic point that if network layer foo is used for forwarding, = network layer foo reachability is needed to qualify NH? - John -- could make this a one-page doc that says "please be careful = about selecting a next hop if j. random network layer reachability isn't = there". - Yakov -- yes, that could be a one-page draft (one line plus = boilerplate). ") Bottom line is that BGP checking MPLS reachability is already useful and = implemented by at least a major implementation. =20 > - The draft should also mention that by announcing more specific FECs > across area, it does not remove the suboptimal path introduced by = virtue > of summarization of PE's loopback. In other word, Inter-area LSP could > now take a suboptimal path. You're right but this is a routing discussion, not an LDP one since LDP = is only following IGP routing decision. It seems to me that RFC 2966 already covers that discussion so we could = reference it in the draft. Would this be fine for you? In addition, note that even when the ABRs advertises specific (/32) = prefixes in the IGP for the sole purpose of the current LDP requirement = (as per RFC 3036/5036) service provider may choose to override the IGP = metric with a static value during the redistribution between = areas/levels in order to reduce IGP churn/instability (at the cost of = loosing optimal routing). This is already an existing trade-off. >=20 >=20 > Thanks > Sina >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ->-----Original Message----- > ->From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] > ->Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:09 PM > ->To: mpls@ietf.org > ->Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call > -> > ->Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for > ->MPLS WG last call. > -> > ->Thanks, > -> > ->George & Loa > -> > = ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ->George Swallow Cisco Systems > ->(978) 936-1398 > -> 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > -> Boxborough, MA 01719 > -> > -> > -> > -> > ->_______________________________________________ > ->mpls mailing list > ->mpls@lists.ietf.org > ->https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -> > -> > -> >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From bradshaw@telia.com Wed Dec 19 19:28:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J59H5-0002xf-70 for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:28:31 -0500 Received: from c9537547.virtua.com.br ([201.83.117.71]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J59H4-0002rH-BN for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:28:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c8429f$06526825$c15e91b1@attbwtal> From: "edgar vason" To: Subject: to mpls-archive Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:41:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Good day! 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------=_NextPart_000_BD4F_01C84343.E4179640-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Dec 20 15:50:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5SD6-0002Nb-5s; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:41:40 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J5SD4-0002NE-1p for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:41:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5SD3-0002N1-1O for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:41:37 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5SD2-0000yG-2g for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:41:36 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:41:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:41:01 +0100 Message-ID: <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BAD15@ftrdmel3> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwsOIh6AgtB/kTs67pODUvesbpwAijoSAAD3iubA= References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> <00a301c84250$1ae17820$76463aa6@mcilink.com> From: "DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS" To: "Dave McDysan" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Dec 2007 20:41:30.0244 (UTC) FILETIME=[B326F440:01C84348] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Cc: mpls@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi Dave, > I believe that some clarification needs to be added to the draft regarding > the conditions under which fault notification operates. Some specific > comments are as follows: >=20 > - Add a statement to section 4, problem statement, indicating that LDP label > withdrawal can be used to advertise the state of a PE in a remote, > summarized area/level, replacing the function done by the IGP in a flat > domain The section "7.2. Impact on routing convergence time" already has a discussion on this subject and states that "In case of failure of the egress LER node, given that the IGP=20 aggregates IP route on ABRs, the routing convergence behavior is=20 changed compared to [LDP]. As the IGP does not carries specifics=20 prefixes outside of the egress area, the IGP will not propagate the=20 notification of node failure outside of the area and therefore=20 notification will rely on LDP. The FEC(s) of the egress LER will be=20 removed in an ordered way through the end-to-end propagation of the=20 LDP withdraw message." Is your comment is that the existing text - is not clear enough? In this case we can indeed rephrasing it) - or is not at the right place (section 4 vs section 7.2)? In this case, we can further discuss this but I would rather not add this in the section 4 which is about the problem statement) =20 > - Section 5: > Suggest adding a statement that label withdrawal occurs in the order from > the routers adjacent to the failed egress node toward the upstream nodes for > the purpose of fault detection. Again, the section "7.2. Impact on routing convergence time" already has a discussion on this subject and states that "In case of failure of the egress LER node [..]. The FEC(s) of the egress LER will be removed in an ordered way through the end-to-end propagation of the LDP withdraw message." Is this text fine for you or would you like to add further precisions?=20 > I think there are some other assumptions that are necessary for LDP to > support egress PE fault notification, as follows: >=20 > If multiple paths from some ingress node to the egress node exist with the > same cumulative metric (or within an implementation specific threshold that > considers them equal), then that ingress node will receive multiple label > advertisements to the egress node. Yes and this may also be true for transit LSR anywhere in the path. (ie not only for the ingress node) =20 > If the ingress node uses liberal label retention, then it must wait for all > such labels to be withdrawn before declaring the egress PE down. If this is > not done, then a link failure along one of the equal cost IGP paths could > cause the ingress PE to falsely declare the egress PE down. I think this is independent of the label Retention Mode (which is an issue in case of IGP rerouting to a new path toward the same PE (FEC) ie new next-hop. Cf section 2.6.2.1. of RFC 5036) Your right but I don't see what's new with the draft for an implementation using ordered mode. For an implementation using independent mode, you're right there is a change but the change is to implement ordered mode for the longest match FEC (the same ordered mode as specified in RFC 5036.) =20 > There are also cases where two links along equal cost IGP paths could fail > at nearly the same time, which could cause all labels to an FEC to be > withdrawn, and reestablshed shortly thereafter. The example is not fully clear to me. Do you mean - the _link_ is reestablished? or the FEC?. - is the network has a backup path (with higher IGP metric) to the PE or not? ie is the routing behavior is an IGP rerouting toward the same remote PE or do we lose connection to the PE. > This behavior will differ > from an IGP hello type protocol node failure detection. Therefore, an > implementation MAY implement a fault detection timer after receiving > withdraw(s) for all prefixes before declaring the egress PE to be down. I don't think any more thing is required but it would help me if you could elaborate on your specific example (especially providing more precision on the topology and the failures events. =20 > Furthermore, If the intermediate nodes between the ingress and egress do not > all implement liberal label retention, then there may be some delay in > waiting for a periodically readvertised label or having to request a label > for a particular FEC. In case of rerouting on a new path, you're right, but the draft brings nothing new. Again, you can refer to section 2.6.2.1. of RFC 5036 =20 > Finally, I suggest that a sentence be added stating that the LDP label > withgdrawal, or other methods that could be defined by the IETF for use in > egress PE fault detection can be selected at the ingress node as a local > implementation decision. You're right, in addition to the PE fault detection mechanism provided by this draft, an ingress PE could, as a local implementation decision, use additional methods to detect PE failure. Eg BFD. But this is already a true statement with RFC 5036 so I think this is largely independent of this draft. =20 > In my opinion, the above clarifications could be added during last call > comment resolution. OK, thanks. I'd be happy to further clarify these comments with you, either on the MPLS mailing list or privately, and if needed, to integrate the resulting required modifications in the draft. Regards, Bruno > Dave >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:09 PM > > To: mpls@ietf.org > > Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call > > > > Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready for > > MPLS WG last call. > > > > Thanks, > > > > George & Loa > > > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > George Swallow Cisco Systems > > (978) 936-1398 > > 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > > Boxborough, MA 01719 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@lists.ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Dec 20 20:33:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Wjp-0002pm-1P; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:31:45 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Wjo-0002lD-2W for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:31:44 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Wjn-0002j4-JL for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:31:43 -0500 Received: from corp.force10networks.com ([64.186.164.204] helo=mx.force10networks.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5Wjm-0001Zk-Px for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:31:43 -0500 Received: from mx.force10networks.com ([10.11.0.215]) by mx.force10networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:31:36 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:31:15 -0800 Message-ID: <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BE01056A69@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> In-Reply-To: <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BA6BF@ftrdmel3> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwqwJthOR9H+fTA60ed5N0MOmxAAGcz0wAB8KfBAAP3SPAA== References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BEFB1B90@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BA6BF@ftrdmel3> From: "Sina Mirtorabi" To: "DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Dec 2007 01:31:36.0374 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A039D60:01C84371] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi Bruno,=20 -> ->Hi Sina, -> ->Thanks for your comments. -> ->Answers inlined. -> ->> -----Message d'origine----- ->> De=A0: Sina Mirtorabi [mailto:smirtorabi@force10networks.com] ->> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 19 d=E9cembre 2007 03:05 =C0=A0: George = Swallow;=20 ->> mpls@ietf.org Objet=A0: RE: [mpls]=20 ->draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt=20 ->> to WG last call ->>=20 ->> Geroge, ->>=20 ->>=20 ->> I have two comments ->>=20 ->> - Section 7.2 Impact on routing convergence time, as it is=20 ->mentioned,=20 ->> the failure of a node will not be propagated outside of the=20 ->area, and=20 ->> the notification is relied upon LDP (which arguably could be=20 ->> comparable to IGP fast convergence) however the draft should also=20 ->> mention that this would introduce an issue for other protocols=20 ->> convergence that rely on IGP, i.e. BGP. In such a scenario a node=20 ->> failure in the remote area cannot be detected by IGP and the=20 ->> convergence of BGP could significantly be increased, unless other=20 ->> mechanisms are used to convey more specific IGP information. -> ->1) Knowledge of the failure: ->We don't need any other mechanism as LDP will advertise the=20 ->failure of the egress node/PE (through the removal of the=20 ->specific /32 FEC). -> ->2) Use of this knowledge: ->You're right, upper layer protocols (eg BGP) would need to=20 ->check MPLS reachability of the BGP Next-Hop /egress=20 ->(advertised by LDP) whereas currently some implementation may=20 ->eventually only check the IP reachability (advertise by the IGP). -> ->This is mostly out of scope of LDP and MPLS (but rather up to=20 ->upper protocols) but you're right this would be better to=20 ->explicit this. What about adding: ->"Note that applications using these MPLS LSPs (eg BGP to=20 ->reach the BGP next-hop) need to check the MPLS reachability=20 ->of these LSP (signaled by LDP) and not only the IP=20 ->reachability (signaled by the IGP)". -> ->Would this be fine for you? -> Thank you, this is fine. Sina->> - The draft should also mention that by announcing more=20 Sina->specific FECs=20 Sina->> across area, it does not remove the suboptimal path introduced = by=20 Sina->> virtue of summarization of PE's loopback. In other word, = Inter-area=20 Sina->> LSP could now take a suboptimal path. Bruno->You're right but this is a routing discussion, not an LDP one=20 Bruno->since LDP is only following IGP routing decision. Well the draft purpose is to eliminate the requirement for having /32 = routes for LERs, which said otherwise promote suboptimal path for LSP. = Therefore it should explicitly mention that as a result of that choice = suboptimal path could be introduced. Of course this is the well known = scalability versus optimality but now that we are on this subject let me = ask the authors of the draft, how much scalability are we gaining here = for giving away LSP optimum path?=20 It is sufficient to have /32 routes only for PE routers (versus all = routers in the network) therefore how many PE routers a very large = network would have that would result to such a scalability issue in IGP? = I think the choice of giving away optimal path versus scalability needs = to be carefully considered by operators.. Thanks Sina ->It seems to me that RFC 2966 already covers that discussion=20 ->so we could reference it in the draft. ->Would this be fine for you? -> -> -> ->In addition, note that even when the ABRs advertises specific=20 ->(/32) prefixes in the IGP for the sole purpose of the current=20 ->LDP requirement (as per RFC 3036/5036) service provider may=20 ->choose to override the IGP metric with a static value during=20 ->the redistribution between areas/levels in order to reduce=20 ->IGP churn/instability (at the cost of loosing optimal=20 ->routing). This is already an existing trade-off. -> ->>=20 ->>=20 ->> Thanks ->> Sina ->>=20 ->>=20 ->>=20 ->>=20 ->>=20 ->>=20 ->> ->-----Original Message----- ->> ->From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] ->> ->Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:09 PM ->> ->To: mpls@ietf.org ->> ->Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to=20 ->WG last call ->> -> ->> ->Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready=20 ->for MPLS WG=20 ->> ->last call. ->> -> ->> ->Thanks, ->> -> ->> ->George & Loa ->> -> ->> = ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ->> ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ->> ->George Swallow Cisco Systems ->> ->(978) 936-1398 ->> -> 1414 Massachusetts Avenue ->> -> Boxborough, MA 01719 ->> -> ->> -> ->> -> ->> -> ->> ->_______________________________________________ ->> ->mpls mailing list ->> ->mpls@lists.ietf.org ->> ->https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls ->> -> ->> -> ->> -> ->>=20 ->>=20 ->> _______________________________________________ ->> mpls mailing list ->> mpls@lists.ietf.org ->> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls -> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From WestonkankakeeFrederick@qcwa.org Fri Dec 21 03:35:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5dLW-0003iB-UV; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:35:06 -0500 Received: from [216.255.173.67] (helo=emachine2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5dLW-0002bG-FK; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:35:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host18954872.qcwa.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 0ux15xJN93.141725.4Wa.Xf0.4395546740333 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:34:57 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Elmo Fry" To: Subject: Your health Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:34:57 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_E6367_01C843AC.69DC2490" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_E6367_01C843AC.69DC2490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_E6367_01C843AC.69DC2490-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 06:29:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5g2b-0005C1-Hq; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:27:45 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J5g2a-0005Bv-L4 for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:27:44 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5g2a-0005Bn-5O for mpls@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:27:44 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5g2Y-0005Dy-0s for mpls@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:27:44 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:27:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:27:14 +0100 Message-ID: <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BAF79@ftrdmel3> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwqwJthOR9H+fTA60ed5N0MOmxAAGcz0wAB8KfBAAP3SPAAAZ5BtA References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BEFB1B90@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BA6BF@ftrdmel3> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BE01056A69@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> From: "DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS" To: "Sina Mirtorabi" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Dec 2007 11:27:14.0123 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F5F59B0:01C843C4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi Sina, Answers inlined > ->> > ->> I have two comments > ->> > ->> - Section 7.2 Impact on routing convergence time, as it is > ->mentioned, > ->> the failure of a node will not be propagated outside of the > ->area, and > ->> the notification is relied upon LDP (which arguably could be > ->> comparable to IGP fast convergence) however the draft should also > ->> mention that this would introduce an issue for other protocols > ->> convergence that rely on IGP, i.e. BGP. In such a scenario a node > ->> failure in the remote area cannot be detected by IGP and the > ->> convergence of BGP could significantly be increased, unless other > ->> mechanisms are used to convey more specific IGP information. > -> > ->1) Knowledge of the failure: > ->We don't need any other mechanism as LDP will advertise the > ->failure of the egress node/PE (through the removal of the > ->specific /32 FEC). > -> > ->2) Use of this knowledge: > ->You're right, upper layer protocols (eg BGP) would need to > ->check MPLS reachability of the BGP Next-Hop /egress > ->(advertised by LDP) whereas currently some implementation may > ->eventually only check the IP reachability (advertise by the IGP). > -> > ->This is mostly out of scope of LDP and MPLS (but rather up to > ->upper protocols) but you're right this would be better to > ->explicit this. What about adding: > ->"Note that applications using these MPLS LSPs (eg BGP to > ->reach the BGP next-hop) need to check the MPLS reachability > ->of these LSP (signaled by LDP) and not only the IP > ->reachability (signaled by the IGP)". > -> > ->Would this be fine for you? > -> >=20 > Thank you, this is fine. =20 Good =20 > Sina->> - The draft should also mention that by announcing more > Sina->specific FECs > Sina->> across area, it does not remove the suboptimal path introduced by > Sina->> virtue of summarization of PE's loopback. In other word, Inter-area > Sina->> LSP could now take a suboptimal path. >=20 > Bruno->You're right but this is a routing discussion, not an LDP one > Bruno->since LDP is only following IGP routing decision. >=20 > Well the draft purpose is to eliminate the requirement for having /32 routes for LERs, which said > otherwise promote suboptimal path for LSP. Therefore it should explicitly mention that as a result > of that choice suboptimal path could be introduced. Of course this is the well known scalability > versus optimality=20 The purpose of the draft is not to promote any choice. It's to give the ability for LDP to set up LSP when the IGP performs IP aggregation. This is a routing consideration which is for example described in RFC 2966. As you said, the trade off of this is well known. Regarding this technical point, I don't think this trade off need to be discussed again in this draft and hence referencing RFC 2966 would be enough. Did you agree on this by saying that "the trade off of this is well known"? However, regarding more editorial choices, currently the draft takes the point of view of an existing IP network (with IGP area) which faces the requirement to introduce MPLS LSP. With this point of view, the draft does not change anything as far as routing (sub) optimality is concerned. But thanks to your comment, I see that someone may read the draft with the different perspective. For example the one of a service provider already leaking all /32 in the IGP and considering removing these /32 by using this draft. In this case, _if_ it used to propagate IGP metrics to these /32 (opposed to overriding IGP metrics between areas), using this draft and performing aggregation in the IGP may result in suboptimal routing. And indeed, a reminded on this in the draft could help. In short, you're right that the draft should say a word on this. How about placing this in "7.1. Deployment consideration" with something like "A service provider which used to leak all specific prefixes in the IGP and now considers performing IP aggregation on ABR should be aware that this may result in suboptimal routing as discussed in RFC 2966." If this fine for would or are you thinking of something different or additional? > but now that we are on this subject let me ask the authors of the draft, how much > scalability are we gaining here for giving away LSP optimum path? > It is sufficient to have /32 routes only for PE routers (versus all routers in the network) > therefore how many PE routers a very large network would have that would result to such a > scalability issue in IGP? The gain is less prefixes in the IGP, less churn in the IGP by not propagating failures events outside of the area, less prefixes in the RIB. Exactly "how much" is dependant on the use case. Again RFC 2966 already discuss this. (Although putting more emphasis on the control plane than on the forwarding plane (FIB)). =20 > I think the choice of giving away optimal path versus scalability needs > to be carefully considered by operators.. Agreed and indeed your comments helped in this regards. Thanks, Bruno =20 > Thanks > Sina >=20 > ->It seems to me that RFC 2966 already covers that discussion > ->so we could reference it in the draft. > ->Would this be fine for you? > -> > -> > -> > ->In addition, note that even when the ABRs advertises specific > ->(/32) prefixes in the IGP for the sole purpose of the current > ->LDP requirement (as per RFC 3036/5036) service provider may > ->choose to override the IGP metric with a static value during > ->the redistribution between areas/levels in order to reduce > ->IGP churn/instability (at the cost of loosing optimal > ->routing). This is already an existing trade-off. > -> > ->> > ->> > ->> Thanks > ->> Sina > ->> > ->> > ->> > ->> > ->> > ->> > ->> ->-----Original Message----- > ->> ->From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] > ->> ->Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:09 PM > ->> ->To: mpls@ietf.org > ->> ->Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to > ->WG last call > ->> -> > ->> ->Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready > ->for MPLS WG > ->> ->last call. > ->> -> > ->> ->Thanks, > ->> -> > ->> ->George & Loa > ->> -> > ->> = ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ->> ->=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ->> ->George Swallow Cisco Systems > ->> ->(978) 936-1398 > ->> -> 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > ->> -> Boxborough, MA 01719 > ->> -> > ->> -> > ->> -> > ->> -> > ->> ->_______________________________________________ > ->> ->mpls mailing list > ->> ->mpls@lists.ietf.org > ->> ->https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > ->> -> > ->> -> > ->> -> > ->> > ->> > ->> _______________________________________________ > ->> mpls mailing list > ->> mpls@lists.ietf.org > ->> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From JonileakyStringer@advantageinspection.com Fri Dec 21 09:47:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5jAB-0006I4-LP; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:47:47 -0500 Received: from [189.165.108.76] (helo=pc06) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5jA7-0003Hl-E5; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:47:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host50109672.advantageinspection.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id yP0ESWjx50.516313.U7F.fGX.8006312818049 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:46:37 +0600 Message-ID: <112401c843e0$6f9acb50$3801a8c0@PC06> From: "Susanne Browne" To: Cc: , =20

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Please see NB> below. > 1. Hiding/Revealing Topology: > With reference to Figure 1, the draft suggests that if Node B wanted to > hide the RSVP tunnel, then it must include a Downstream FEC Stack Change > Sub-TLV with NIL FEC in the DDMAP TLV inside the echo response message > to Node A. I believe this causes a security issue. You are not providing > the full details of the tunneling FEC (RSVP Session FEC) but you are > still telling Node A that a tunnel-in-tunnel exists between B and D. > Thus, you are providing some topology information. >=20 > I believe this is not the way operators hide their topology. The way it > is done is fully at the control of Node B. If Node B wanted to hide the > details of the topology, then it does not propagate the TTL received in > the echo request message from A when pushing the label for the RSVP FEC. > It will use a TTL=3D255 on the outer RSVP label. This way, the echo > request expires at Node D instead of Node C.=20 NB> Totally agree. If someone wants to hide their topology, then they can do that with the TTL approach you just outlined above. > Thus, I do not believe there is a need to use the NIL FEC at all. NB> The NIL FEC option is *an option*. If the operator uses the above approach, NIL FEC will not be used. But, for whatever reason an operator may choose to propagate the TTL but may not want traceroute to discover the path. It's for such cases that this has been added. Also, it's not a MUST in the draft and only a recommendation. A vendor can choose to not implement the NIL FEC behavior. The NIL FEC was also in response to security issue which was brought up at previous IETF. > 2. LSP Stitching case: > This case consists of swapping FECs and is very different from the case > of tunneling a FEC inside another FEC. With reference to Figure 2, the > FEC being traced by Node A, i.e., the target FEC stack, is swapped at C > and does not exist end-to-end. >=20 > Thus, Node A must be informed to use the new swapped FEC as its target > FEC stack in order to properly trace the segment between C and D. RFC > 4379 already provides the ability for Node C to return the new target > FEC stack in the existing Target FEC stack TLV in the echo reply > message. With this, Node A would know there is a FEC swapping operation > at Node C and will be able to build the next echo request message with > the correct target FEC stack TLV. NB> I am not sure how you came to that conclusion. RFC4379 does not say anywhere that a node can return a Target FEC stack in the response. Of course it doesn't say the opposite too. We did consider using the target FEC stack in the echo response, but there are issues. Consider the below figure... LDP eBGP RSVP A ---- B ----- C ----- D | | LDP | |eBGP E ------F=20 LDP Router B has 2 downstreams. One of them involves a FEC change and one of them does not involve a FEC change. How is router B supposed to communicate that the FEC changes only if you choose path via C and not if you choose path via E. The other problem of including a complete FEC stack in response was that the ingress router (B) would need to do additional work of parsing the FEC stack in the echo response and then figuring out what changed (w.r.t. the original FEC stack). The PUSH/POP approach we have taken in our draft simplifies this very much and it seems less error prone (esp. in a multi-vendor environment). > We came to this conclusion when we investigated the extension of VCCV to > support tracing of Multi-Segment PW (MS-PW). In this case, there is also > a FEC stack swapping at an S-PE node, and there is no need to define a > new mechanism beyond what is in RFC 4379. The VCCV trace feature for > MS-PW is described in the following draft: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hart-pwe3-segmented-pw-vccv-02 > .txt NB> I shall take a look at the same. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. =20 > The case of tunneling a FEC in another FEC does not cause the traced FEC > stack to change. With reference to Figure 1, Node A is still tracing the > LDP FEC for Node E. This is why I believe it is the only case that > requires the addition of the downstream FEC information in the DMAP TLV. NB> If you include the FEC information only in the DSMAP (and not in the target FEC stack TLV), then the transit node can respond with an error, as per section 4.4.1 of RFC 4379 (since transit node knows nothing about LDP FEC, it is a pure RSVP node). =20 > 3. Use of the FEC Stack Change Sub-TLV: > Based on the above point (2), I believe the only case that requires > extensions to RFC 4379 is when tunneling a FEC inside another FEC. This > can be done by simply adding the downstream FEC stack information to the > DSMAP TLV. I do not think there is a need for "FEC Change" information > since the FEC being traced by Node A in Figure 1 has not changed, it is > still the FEC for Node E. NB> If the transit RSVP node cannot co-relate 1:1 a target FEC stack elements and the label-stack elements, then it cannot correctly perform FEC validation. Hence I do think we need the FEC change information. Consider the case that the transit RSVP node receives a mis-routed trace request with LDP FEC (1 FEC in fec-stack) and 2 labels. The 2 labels signify that something might be wrong (aka misrouted packet). Such errors cannot be caught until there is a 1:1 mapping. > I propose we simplify the new DDMAP TLV by adding a Downstream FEC stack > sub-TLV instead of the proposed Stack change sub-TLV. This sub-TLV is > optional and may only be used to indicate the FEC being traced is > entering or exiting a tunnel or tunnels. For example, Node B will > include the RSVP FEC followed by the LDP FEC. Node C will do the same. > Node D will only include the LDP FEC. When Node A is processing the > DDMAP TLV in the echo reply, it always uses the position of the LDP FEC > (the FEC being traced) in the DDMAP as a reference to figure out if it > is entering, transiting, or exiting a tunnel. NB> As I mentioned above, we had talked about this and there was grave concern regarding ingress behavior. The other issue was that it could significantly increase the size of the echo response. Consider a transit node with 6 downstreams and a tunnel along each downstream. Now the echo response would contain 6 copies of the FEC stack (which could be any size), one per downstream. Adding just the changed information significantly reduces response size. 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A few responses in line. Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS > [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange-ftgroup.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:41 PM > To: Dave McDysan > Cc: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to > WG last call > > Hi Dave, > > > > I believe that some clarification needs to be added to the draft > regarding > > the conditions under which fault notification operates. > Some specific > > comments are as follows: > > > > - Add a statement to section 4, problem statement, > indicating that LDP > label > > withdrawal can be used to advertise the state of a PE in a remote, > > summarized area/level, replacing the function done by the IGP in a > flat > > domain > > > The section "7.2. Impact on routing convergence time" already > has a discussion on this subject and states that "In case of > failure of the egress LER node, given that the IGP > aggregates IP route on ABRs, the routing convergence behavior is > changed compared to [LDP]. As the IGP does not carries specifics > prefixes outside of the egress area, the IGP will not > propagate the > notification of node failure outside of the area and therefore > notification will rely on LDP. The FEC(s) of the egress > LER will be > removed in an ordered way through the end-to-end > propagation of the > LDP withdraw message." > > > Is your comment is that the existing text > - is not clear enough? In this case we can indeed rephrasing it) > - or is not at the right place (section 4 vs section 7.2)? In > this case, we can further discuss this but I would rather not > add this in the section 4 which is about the problem statement) > As I understand the intent of the draft based upon our discussion, part of the problem to be solved is in fact fault detection and notification and therefore at least a summary statement in section 4 is appropriate (which could point to section 7.2 for more detail). Also, the subject of section 7 is "Caveats for Deployment," which is not the best place to state what functions the document is intended to describe. > > - Section 5: > > Suggest adding a statement that label withdrawal occurs in the order > from > > the routers adjacent to the failed egress node toward the upstream > nodes for > > the purpose of fault detection. > > Again, the section "7.2. Impact on routing convergence time" > already has a discussion on this subject and states that "In > case of failure of the egress LER node [..]. The FEC(s) of > the egress LER will be removed in an ordered way through the > end-to-end propagation of the LDP withdraw message." > > Is this text fine for you or would you like to add further > precisions? As the draft currently reads, normative statements regarding operation of the protocol cover only signaling for label distribution. As I commented in Vancouver, the current text of the draft does not have normative text covering the cases of label withdrawal and how that could be used by other protocols. The subject of section 7 is "Caveats for Deployment," which does not appear to be the best place in the outluine of the draft to state protocol requirements. > > > I think there are some other assumptions that are necessary > for LDP to > > support egress PE fault notification, as follows: > > > > If multiple paths from some ingress node to the egress node > exist with > the > > same cumulative metric (or within an implementation > specific threshold > that > > considers them equal), then that ingress node will receive multiple > label > > advertisements to the egress node. > > Yes and this may also be true for transit LSR anywhere in the > path. (ie not only for the ingress node) Yes, the ingress in general will have one or more transit nodes between itself and the egress. > > > If the ingress node uses liberal label retention, then it must wait > for all > > such labels to be withdrawn before declaring the egress PE down. If > this is > > not done, then a link failure along one of the equal cost IGP paths > could > > cause the ingress PE to falsely declare the egress PE down. > > I think this is independent of the label Retention Mode > (which is an issue in case of IGP rerouting to a new path > toward the same PE (FEC) ie new next-hop. Cf section > 2.6.2.1. of RFC 5036) > > Your right but I don't see what's new with the draft for an > implementation using ordered mode. For an implementation > using independent mode, you're right there is a change but > the change is to implement ordered mode for the longest match > FEC (the same ordered mode as specified in RFC 5036.) > I suggest that the last paragraph at the end of section 4 with the three bulleted list items could be a good place to make part of the above clarification. To me, the current text implies a single RIB prefix of a certain length (i.e., better match) and does not cover the case where there may be multiple equally best matching RIB prefixes. I think there may be other issues with independent node depending upon the order of label withdrawals received by an ingress mode. I can see how fault detection and notification works best using ordered mode, and can envision other race conditions with independent mode. I suggest that the wg consider adding text to indicate that ordered mode is preferred, as you state above. Also, I think the references to 3036 in the draft need to be replaced by 5036. > > > There are also cases where two links along equal cost IGP > paths could > fail > > at nearly the same time, which could cause all labels to an > FEC to be > > withdrawn, and reestablshed shortly thereafter. > > The example is not fully clear to me. Do you mean > - the _link_ is reestablished? or the FEC?. I meant the link fails, the LDP session fails, the label is withdrawn. Once the link is reestablished, the LDP session would become active and then the FEC would be bound again. > - is the network has a backup path (with higher IGP metric) > to the PE or not? ie is the routing behavior is an IGP > rerouting toward the same remote PE or do we lose connection > to the PE. I stated "two links along equal cost IGP paths." A clarification would be that these are "separate equal cost IGP paths" > > > This behavior will differ > > from an IGP hello type protocol node failure detection. > Therefore, an > > implementation MAY implement a fault detection timer after receiving > > withdraw(s) for all prefixes before declaring the egress PE to be > down. > > I don't think any more thing is required but it would help me > if you could elaborate on your specific example (especially > providing more precision on the topology and the failures events. Below is a simple example for discussion: /A---B\ E I \C---D/ All hops have the same IGP metric. Egress (E) node and Ingress(I) node are in stub areas and A,B,C, and D are in the backbone area (using OSPF terminology). E distributes a label for its own FEX to A and C, which in turn distribute a label to B and D. B and D use the longest prefix match signaling specified in the draft, and both distribute the label binding for E's FEC to the Ingress (I). Now the link between E and A fails. A will issue a label withdraw to B, which in turn will issue a label withdraw to I. However, I still has a RIB prefix (of the same length and IGP metric) remaining to E (see my comment and proposed clarification to section 5 above). > > > Furthermore, If the intermediate nodes between the ingress > and egress > do not > > all implement liberal label retention, then there may be > some delay in > > waiting for a periodically readvertised label or having to request a > label > > for a particular FEC. > > In case of rerouting on a new path, you're right, but the > draft brings nothing new. Again, you can refer to section > 2.6.2.1. of RFC 5036 I believe that this is an important deployment caveat that should be added to the draft. In other words, liberal label retention mode may achieve much faster convergence than conservative label retention mode. > > > Finally, I suggest that a sentence be added stating that > the LDP label > > withgdrawal, or other methods that could be defined by the IETF for > use in > > egress PE fault detection can be selected at the ingress node as a > local > > implementation decision. > > You're right, in addition to the PE fault detection mechanism > provided by this draft, an ingress PE could, as a local > implementation decision, use additional methods to detect PE > failure. Eg BFD. But this is already a true statement with > RFC 5036 so I think this is largely independent of this draft. I think this goes back to whether part of the problem the draft is trying to solve is fault detection and notification. If so, I think that an operator being able to disable and set timers for this LDP signaling derived fault detection and notification are important requirements. Aslo, I don't believe that BFD is part of 5036. > > > In my opinion, the above clarifications could be added during last > call > > comment resolution. > > OK, thanks. > > I'd be happy to further clarify these comments with you, > either on the MPLS mailing list or privately, and if needed, > to integrate the resulting required modifications in the draft. > Let's have the discussion on the list so that others can comment as they deem appropriate. Thanks, Dave > Regards, > Bruno > > > Dave > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:09 PM > > > To: mpls@ietf.org > > > Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to > WG last call > > > > > > Please indicate whether you believe this draft is ready > for MPLS WG > > > last call. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > George & Loa > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > ========== > > > George Swallow Cisco Systems > > > (978) 936-1398 > > > 1414 Massachusetts Avenue > > > Boxborough, MA 01719 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > mpls mailing list > > > mpls@lists.ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@lists.ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From NicoletehranMahoney@warner-criv.com Thu Dec 27 11:17:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7vPw-0005u2-Qv; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:17:08 -0500 Received: from 84.126.78.113.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.126.78.113] helo=arantxa.myhomedomain) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J7vPw-0006sp-0l; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:17:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host70575991.warner-criv.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id fMgmrkPa39.982222.zl6.YAi.0022517706079 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:17:11 -0100 Message-ID: <107d601c848a3$f98b6370$6501a8c0@Arantxa> From: "Lori Childers" To: Cc: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_DB2FB_01C848FC.8259A290-- From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Dec 27 22:37:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J85zz-0008A2-GM; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:35:03 -0500 Received: from mpls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J85zy-00089v-G3 for mpls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:35:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J85zy-00089n-5u for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:35:02 -0500 Received: from corp.force10networks.com ([64.186.164.204] helo=mx.force10networks.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J85zw-0007e3-BF for mpls@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:35:02 -0500 Received: from mx.force10networks.com ([10.11.0.215]) by mx.force10networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:34:47 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:34:46 -0800 Message-ID: <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BE0105705D@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> In-Reply-To: <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BAF79@ftrdmel3> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-interarea-01.txt to WG last call Thread-Index: AchBwqwJthOR9H+fTA60ed5N0MOmxAAGcz0wAB8KfBAAP3SPAAAZ5BtAATivdeA= References: <20071218220910.1C6F250BC41@swallow-mini-mac.cisco.com> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BEFB1B90@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BA6BF@ftrdmel3> <9E2742C54E161041A53F36F9A8DC31BE01056A69@EXCH-CLUSTER-04.force10networks.com> <5A0FF108221C7C4E85738678804B567C059BAF79@ftrdmel3> From: "Sina Mirtorabi" To: "DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE-ISS" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Dec 2007 03:34:47.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[98797CC0:01C84902] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: X-BeenThere: mpls@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi Bruno, ->As you said, the trade off of this is well known. Regarding=20 ->this technical point, I don't think this trade off need to be=20 ->discussed again in this draft and hence referencing RFC 2966=20 ->would be enough. Did you agree on this by saying that "the=20 ->trade off of this is well known"? A reference to RFC2966 would be fine ->However, regarding more editorial choices, currently the=20 ->draft takes the point of view of an existing IP network (with=20 ->IGP area) which faces the requirement to introduce MPLS LSP.=20 ->With this point of view, the draft does not change anything=20 ->as far as routing (sub) optimality is concerned. It does, the justification for the draft (also mentioned in the problem statement of the draft) is to eliminate /32 route to LERs, therefore the potential introduction of sub-optimal routing. There are networks that already do aggregations but leak /32 routes for LERs.. ->But thanks to your comment, I see that someone may read the=20 ->draft with the different perspective. For example the one of=20 ->a service provider already leaking all /32 in the IGP and=20 ->considering removing these /32 by using this draft. In this=20 ->case, _if_ it used to propagate IGP metrics to these /32=20 ->(opposed to overriding IGP metrics between areas), using this=20 ->draft and performing aggregation in the IGP may result in=20 ->suboptimal routing. And indeed, a reminded on this in the=20 ->draft could help. Yes=20 -> ->In short, you're right that the draft should say a word on this. ->How about placing this in "7.1. Deployment consideration"=20 ->with something like "A service provider which used to leak=20 ->all specific prefixes in the IGP and now considers performing=20 ->IP aggregation on ABR should be aware that this may result in=20 ->suboptimal routing as discussed in RFC 2966." I wouldn't say "all" specific prefixes but /32 LER's address. Sina->> but now that we are on this subject let me ask the authors of the Sina->draft, how much Sina->> scalability are we gaining here for giving away LSP optimum path? Sina->> It is sufficient to have /32 routes only for PE routers (versus all Sina->routers in the network) Sina->> therefore how many PE routers a very large network would have that Sina->would result to such a Sina->> scalability issue in IGP? ->The gain is less prefixes in the IGP, less churn in the IGP=20 ->by not propagating failures events outside of the area, less=20 ->prefixes in the RIB. Exactly "how much" is dependant on the=20 ->use case. Again RFC 2966 already discuss this. (Although=20 ->putting more emphasis on the control plane than on the=20 ->forwarding plane (FIB)). I think everybody knows the benefit of 'less' prefix in IGP, but the question was how many /32 prefix (for LERs only) even a large network needs to carry that require one to aggregate /32 prefix for LERs, use your draft and introduce sub-optimal routing? I don't think the reduction of 100-200 prefixes worth the introduction of suboptimal routing... =20 sina->> I think the choice of giving away optimal path versus scalability Sina->needs Sina->> to be carefully considered by operators.. ->Agreed and indeed your comments helped in this regards. 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Regarding > ->this technical point, I don't think this trade off need to be > ->discussed again in this draft and hence referencing RFC 2966 > ->would be enough. Did you agree on this by saying that "the > ->trade off of this is well known"? >=20 > A reference to RFC2966 would be fine Ok. =20 > ->However, regarding more editorial choices, currently the > ->draft takes the point of view of an existing IP network (with > ->IGP area) which faces the requirement to introduce MPLS LSP. > ->With this point of view, the draft does not change anything > ->as far as routing (sub) optimality is concerned. >=20 > It does, the justification for the draft (also mentioned in the problem > statement of the draft) is to eliminate /32 route to LERs, therefore the > potential introduction of sub-optimal routing. There are networks that > already do aggregations but leak /32 routes for LERs.. >=20 > ->But thanks to your comment, I see that someone may read the > ->draft with the different perspective. For example the one of > ->a service provider already leaking all /32 in the IGP and > ->considering removing these /32 by using this draft. In this > ->case, _if_ it used to propagate IGP metrics to these /32 > ->(opposed to overriding IGP metrics between areas), using this > ->draft and performing aggregation in the IGP may result in > ->suboptimal routing. And indeed, a reminded on this in the > ->draft could help. >=20 > Yes >=20 > -> > ->In short, you're right that the draft should say a word on this. > ->How about placing this in "7.1. Deployment consideration" > ->with something like "A service provider which used to leak > ->all specific prefixes in the IGP and now considers performing > ->IP aggregation on ABR should be aware that this may result in > ->suboptimal routing as discussed in RFC 2966." >=20 > I wouldn't say "all" specific prefixes but /32 LER's address. Right. We can even say "/32 LER's loopback addresses" > Sina->> but now that we are on this subject let me ask the authors of > the > Sina->draft, how much > Sina->> scalability are we gaining here for giving away LSP optimum > path? > Sina->> It is sufficient to have /32 routes only for PE routers (versus > all > Sina->routers in the network) > Sina->> therefore how many PE routers a very large network would have > that > Sina->would result to such a > Sina->> scalability issue in IGP? >=20 >=20 > ->The gain is less prefixes in the IGP, less churn in the IGP > ->by not propagating failures events outside of the area, less > ->prefixes in the RIB. Exactly "how much" is dependant on the > ->use case. Again RFC 2966 already discuss this. (Although > ->putting more emphasis on the control plane than on the > ->forwarding plane (FIB)). >=20 >=20 > I think everybody knows the benefit of 'less' prefix in IGP, but the > question was how many /32 prefix (for LERs only) even a large network > needs to carry that require one to aggregate /32 prefix for LERs, use > your draft and introduce sub-optimal routing? I don't think the > reduction of 100-200 prefixes worth the introduction of suboptimal > routing... I know some deployments with significantly more LER/PE and where routing per /32 is absolutely not a requirement (eg both ABRs are very close, TE requirements to (equally) load balance the traffic on expensive local links whatever remote failures in the backbone). > sina->> I think the choice of giving away optimal path versus > scalability > Sina->needs > Sina->> to be carefully considered by operators.. >=20 > ->Agreed and indeed your comments helped in this regards. >=20 > I agree with your agreement ;-) >=20 > thanks > Sina _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From RusseltuckHeath@appalachiantrail.org Mon Dec 31 11:00:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9N3q-0001DL-W9; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:00:19 -0500 Received: from dslb-088-074-134-168.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.74.134.168] helo=susis) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9N3o-0008O7-16; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:00:16 -0500 Received: from judo by appalachiantrail.org with SMTP id knC687RTcT for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:00:02 -0100 From: "Damian Gallagher" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OeT-0007Kk-EW; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:42:13 -0500 Received: from lbck-4d06040e.pool.mediaways.net ([77.6.4.14]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OeS-0002UQ-Dg; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:42:13 -0500 Received: from [77.6.4.14] by mx2.ovh.net; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:39:16 +0100 From: "Sal Dudley" To: Subject: Re: Shower Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:39:16 +0100 Message-ID: <01c84bdc$72256200$0e04064d@oxnwg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Have better sex yours and her sex life. women, love time with them a new you. http://www.plopules.com Bible From gabtoym@bostockandpollitt.com Mon Dec 31 13:56:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9PoF-0003EH-7x; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:56:23 -0500 Received: from m268p007.adsl.highway.telekom.at ([62.47.201.103]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9PoE-0003yz-5V; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:56:23 -0500 Received: from [62.47.201.103] by cluster1a.eu.messagelabs.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:56:21 +0100 From: "Pedro Dye" To: Subject: FDA Approved Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <01c84be7$36dc6080$67c92f3e@gabtoym> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 VPXL Has Worked For THOUSANDS of Clients http://rotuebu.com From DelorisbarbitalTompkins@prometheusbooks.com Mon Dec 31 19:01:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9UZj-0007yt-21; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:01:43 -0500 Received: from pool-72-70-102-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net ([72.70.102.187] helo=kids.domainnotset.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9UZi-0001JJ-Lk; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:01:42 -0500 Received: from swaziland by prometheusbooks.com with SMTP id s6b1AnzLee for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:01:36 +0500 From: "Tammie Grimm" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9XM1-0000X9-EH; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:59:45 -0500 Received: from [213.178.242.251] (helo=host-213-178-242-251.aloola.sy) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9XLz-0004Aj-Oy; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:59:44 -0500 Received: from [213.178.242.251] by mail.mptintrading.com; Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:07:28 +0200 Date: Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:07:28 +0200 From: "Lloyd Guerra" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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