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= ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C68E48.AE517000-- From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jun 14 12:12:34 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqXyl-0003Xr-Gd; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:12:27 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqXyk-0003Xf-J0 for isis-wg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:12:26 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqXyj-0001cf-7n for isis-wg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:12:26 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2006 09:12:25 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,132,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="1825576344:sNHT29303420" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5EGCO7Y000403; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:12:24 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k5EGCM9u004448; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:12:23 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:12:23 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.4.060510 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:12:22 -0500 From: David Ward To: , David Ward Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Request for ISIS-WG agenda slots at IETF 66 Thread-Index: AcaPzVEyj+R9LvvAEdqhKQAKlcR7kg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2006 16:12:23.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[51FDC110:01C68FCD] DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=206; t=1150301544; x=1151165544; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=dward@cisco.com; z=From:David=20Ward=20 |Subject:Request=20for=20ISIS-WG=20agenda=20slots=20at=20IETF=2066; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3Di7dN0WxS/JpDrspPQ5v2AEu2rN4=3D; b=Zr5q+bZ5heL7L2jT/+z9c9PT0cZPTp+9LmgtDpDxURzwocWKtEc+qdFJPsSG3OXhSLzL7GPw R49txrp2biEvwE0rtwQn5NGmbnpz6pVvDaS+8YUv74I5FcGoGNJZRaOi; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2.cisco.com; header.From=dward@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Cc: Subject: [Isis-wg] Request for ISIS-WG agenda slots at IETF 66 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org This is a call for agenda items for the ISIS WG meeting in Montreal. Our WG meeting is on Tuesday July 11: 1850-1950 Afternoon Session IV, Room 519B Please send requests directly to me. -Dward _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jun 14 15:50:28 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqbNh-0005XT-1o; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqbNM-00055a-Kz; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:04 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqbNM-00015R-It; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:04 -0400 Received: from chsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.24.129] helo=willow.neustar.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqbNK-0000NJ-1i; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:04 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by willow.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5EJo1Rx001770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:50:01 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FqbNJ-0006rz-Ii; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:50:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets Working Group of the IETF. Title : Simplified Extension of LSP Space for IS-IS Author(s) : L. Ginsberg, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2006-6-14 This draft describes a simplified method for extending the LSP space beyond the 256 Link State PDU (LSP) limit defined in ISO 10589. This method is intended as a preferred replacement for the method defined in RFC 3786. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-14112035.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-14112035.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg --NextPart-- From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jun 14 21:36:17 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqgmF-0000G9-Fy; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:36:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqglB-0008LF-VH for isis-wg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:35:01 -0400 Received: from web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.10.138]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqgXn-0005e9-Ik for isis-wg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:21:13 -0400 Received: (qmail 86736 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jun 2006 01:21:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=s60djG+Rf+1viXlB6av/LqZapqS5bJoPaknbzXfS/graA5CusLlQj0pkX6ZGHudMehBehK3u4uimG2S/GxU6auz7xWdPYEwwIc5qf2aeIfp94ih/lr7UOvcNHwcf3GNioVcU2zomrIbRFjdzB4O391AxYI6cYgcBiMc6GdvUsBg= ; Message-ID: <20060615012110.86734.qmail@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.144.106.189] by web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:21:10 GMT Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:21:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Manav Bhatia To: isis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [Isis-wg] IS-IS HMAC SHA Cryptographic Authentication - Updated X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Manav Bhatia List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Hi, We have updated the draft to propose an extension to IS-IS to allow the use of any cryptographic authentication algorithm without requiring any changes in the protocol and/or packet format. Although this document has been written specifically for using HMAC construct along with the SHA family of cryptographic hash functions, the method described in this document is generic and can be used to extend IS-IS to support any cryptographic hash function in the future. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-02.txt Thanks, Manav _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jun 15 09:02:29 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqrUP-0008Qd-Ht; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:02:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqrUO-0008QY-FV for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:02:24 -0400 Received: from kremlin.juniper.net ([207.17.137.120]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqrUN-0002KU-53 for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:02:24 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO beta.jnpr.net) ([172.24.18.109]) by kremlin.juniper.net with ESMTP; 15 Jun 2006 06:02:23 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,134,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="554821689:sNHT31450984" Received: from [172.17.13.137] ([172.17.13.137]) by beta.jnpr.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 15 Jun 2006 06:02:22 -0700 Message-ID: <44915A59.8050504@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:02:17 +0200 From: Hannes Gredler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050815) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2006 13:02:22.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0C07640:01C6907B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org les, et al, draft looks good. nice job ! /hannes Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Simplified Extension of LSP Space for IS-IS > Author(s) : L. Ginsberg, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2006-6-14 > > This draft describes a simplified method for extending the LSP space > beyond the 256 Link State PDU (LSP) limit defined in ISO 10589. This > method is intended as a preferred replacement for the method defined > in RFC 3786. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-isis-wg-extlsp-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jun 15 13:46:57 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqvvi-0003GB-BR; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:46:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqvvh-0003FP-97 for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:46:53 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqvvf-0008Pi-Um for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:46:53 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Jun 2006 10:46:44 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,137,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="1826363606:sNHT3006690250" Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5FHkhKi002278; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:46:43 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k5FHkako025246; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-213.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.153]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:46:39 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by xmb-sjc-213.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:46:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7C943A64-7769-4396-830B-A23FED7433AC@rawdofmt.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christian Hopps Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:47:05 -0700 To: isis mailing list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2006 17:46:39.0348 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7A78340:01C690A3] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2.cisco.com; header.From=chopps@rawdofmt.org; dkim=neutral X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: Christian Hopps Subject: [Isis-wg] Experimental TLV to go Experimental? X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org At the previous IETF the suggestion was made of moving the experimental TLV draft to experimental (as we have no implementations in development). We agreed to take this to the list. I've included the minutes on this issue below. If no-one has objection we will submit this to IESG as an experimental RFC. Chris & Dave. Minutes: Chris Hopps: There was a request to ask the group if anyone had an issue with reviving the draft and taking it to Experimental? Bill Fenner: There's been this weird tension between wanting to do neat new things with new TLVs and wanted to be sure that what's deployed is documented. One conceivable thing to do is to restrict what's done by restricting the allocations, but that won't work b/c people will implement without allocating - so that won't work either. That's my main concern with this. We may get pushback from Ops b/c it gives the ability to put anything out there with no documentation. Chris Hopps: Shouldn't that be driven by the operators who are going to use it? Dave Ward: No known implementations - talked about it for the last few years. Asked for hands for interest in resurrecting the space (no hands). Asked for hands for no interest (again no hands). Dino: If a vendor wanted a proprietary TLV, would you recommend them using this or something else? Chris Hopps: This - it uses an enterprise code plus whatever the vendor. (Gives details on solution in draft - one TLV & then enterprise can put whatever it wants in it.) We'll take this to the list. _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jun 15 17:44:55 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqze0-0000AW-Kn; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:44:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqzdy-0000AR-SY for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:44:50 -0400 Received: from mercury.easily.co.uk ([212.53.64.51] helo=easily.co.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqzdn-0008Gf-BB for isis-wg@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:44:40 -0400 Received: from [82.44.184.59] (account ee7a30ha8ykg HELO [10.0.1.2]) by easily.co.uk (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 171500412; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:44:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4491D4B6.20208@christiantena.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:44:22 +0100 From: Philip Christian User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Hopps Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Experimental TLV to go Experimental? References: <7C943A64-7769-4396-830B-A23FED7433AC@rawdofmt.org> In-Reply-To: <7C943A64-7769-4396-830B-A23FED7433AC@rawdofmt.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Cc: isis mailing list X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org I'm still available to submit / edit it if needs be. This TLV is probably of more obvious benefit to vendors; however if vendors do not have an easy way to do this then there is always the risk that they just implement and be damned. It is then the operators who will have to pick up the pieces and who will find themselves stuck with one vendor because interoperability problems will mean that once vendor A is there then vendor B cannot work properly in that network. This draft basically makes vendor A and B leave each other alone so that they can co-exist without things messing up. Probably there was more demand for this three or four years ago when I originally submitted it. Everyone was full of brilliant ideas and had big development groups ready to make the magic happen quickly...... Anyway for anyone that hasn't got a copy the last draft is archived here:- http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/standards/ietf/draft-ietf-isis-experimental-tlv-05.txt Regards, Philip Christian Christian Hopps wrote: > At the previous IETF the suggestion was made of moving the > experimental TLV draft to experimental (as we have no implementations > in development). We agreed to take this to the list. I've included > the minutes on this issue below. > > If no-one has objection we will submit this to IESG as an > experimental RFC. > > Chris & Dave. > > Minutes: > > Chris Hopps: There was a request to ask the group if anyone had an > issue with reviving the draft and taking it to Experimental? > > Bill Fenner: There's been this weird tension between wanting to do > neat new things with new TLVs and wanted to be sure that what's > deployed is documented. One conceivable thing to do is to restrict > what's done by restricting the allocations, but that won't work b/c > people will implement without allocating - so that won't work either. > That's my main concern with this. We may get pushback from Ops b/c it > gives the ability to put anything out there with no documentation. > > Chris Hopps: Shouldn't that be driven by the operators who are going > to use it? > > Dave Ward: No known implementations - talked about it for the last few > years. Asked for hands for interest in resurrecting the space (no > hands). Asked for hands for no interest (again no hands). > > Dino: If a vendor wanted a proprietary TLV, would you recommend them > using this or something else? > > Chris Hopps: This - it uses an enterprise code plus whatever the > vendor. (Gives details on solution in draft - one TLV & then > enterprise can put whatever it wants in it.) We'll take this to the > list. > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jun 18 16:57:18 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fs4KS-0000ci-8w; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fs4KR-0000aL-9F for isis-wg@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:07 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fs4KP-0000aH-Qv for isis-wg@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:57:07 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Jun 2006 13:57:05 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,147,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="296660745:sNHT29860626" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5IKv5So024385 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:57:05 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k5IKv59s005889 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-222.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.106]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:57:05 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:57:04 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available Thread-Index: AcaQo7189hHoOZSDRaWinhfzjYvNgQCdLs3g From: "Les Ginsberg $ginsberg$" To: "isis mailing list" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2006 20:57:05.0085 (UTC) FILETIME=[C129DED0:01C69319] DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=1234; t=1150664225; x=1151528225; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ginsberg@cisco.com; z=From:=22Les=20Ginsberg=20$ginsberg$=22=20 |Subject:Update=20to=20Multi-instance=20Multi-Topology=20Draft=20available; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3DAefMNL2mi6mn6YKGlhvcm2wVyYI=3D; b=MYUkkM/7pqjzLFrTltWtANFZ/9TTgOmZOLBSWDzhRnQKLPd6wF9FLof94s4j+Ll5CSpz5NL1 jMHN6puVNuVs4CisUnmthYMZ87SeDBkeDlffNVqpmDuhvOkUN2PCGEiK; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2.cisco.com; header.From=ginsberg@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Subject: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Folks - An update to the IS-IS Multi-instance Multi-topology draft is now available. Here's the URL and the Abstract. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-previdi-isis-mi-mt-01.txt Abstract=20 =20 This draft describes a mechanism that allows a single router to =20 share one or more links among multiple IS-IS routing protocol=20 instances.=20 Multiple instances allow the deployment of multiple address-families=20 as well as multiple instances of the same address-family and it is=20 an alternative to Multi-Topology IS-IS. Routers will form instance=20 specific adjacencies, exchange instance specific routing updates and=20 compute paths utilizing instance specific LSDB information. Each PDU=20 will contain a new TLV identifying the instance to which the PDU=20 belongs. This allows a network operator to deploy multiple IS-IS=20 topologies in parallel, using the same set of links when required=20 and still have the capability of computing topology specific paths.=20 This draft does not address the forwarding paradigm that needs to be=20 used in order to ensure data PDUs are forwarded according to the=20 topology to which they belong. _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jun 23 17:06:30 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftsr7-00046h-CZ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:06:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftsr6-0003vW-7c for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:06:20 -0400 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftsr3-0004vt-UO for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:06:20 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO beta.jnpr.net) ([172.24.18.109]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 14:06:18 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,169,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="562189442:sNHT29777460" Received: from [172.17.13.137] ([172.17.13.137]) by beta.jnpr.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: <449C57C6.6070607@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:06:14 +0200 From: Hannes Gredler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050815) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2006 21:06:16.0840 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE19C080:01C69708] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: isis mailing list X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Folks - > > An update to the IS-IS Multi-instance Multi-topology draft is now > available. Here's the URL and the Abstract. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-previdi-isis-mi-mt-01.txt > > > Abstract stefano & les, some comments and a question from my side: comment ad 3.1 Instance Identifier TLV it would be in the good tradition of the isis-wg to make a suggestion of a codepoint for the TLV. general comment & comment ad 3.4.1 MI-ISIS Layer 2 multicast address and comment ad 3.4.2 Interoperability using p2p networks this draft is a non-downwards compatible change, from the moment you add support for multi-instance all nodes in your network need to support it. we should not use subnet dependend fields (like MAC adresses) to control the versioning. since this is a essentially a redefinition of all known TLVs [which are from now on now keyed by the instance-id] have you thought about using a different PDU version in the IS-IS common header ? suggestion: pdu-version 1 would be used for topology 0 [fully downwards compatible] and pdu-version 2 would be used for the per-instance-keyed topologies. all PDU type and TLV allocations stay as-is. that way you rule out any subnet specific dependencies and any node that does not understand pdu-version 2 will ignore it anyway, which is IMO a cleaner transition tool. finally a question: how would i link nodes between different topologies if i wanted to do so ? /hannes _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jun 23 18:33:28 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtuDM-0003Zr-Hi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:33:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtuDL-0003V6-FS for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:33:23 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtuDK-0006pH-1i for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:33:23 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 15:33:23 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,170,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="325619946:sNHT34180156" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5NMXLAV013693; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:33:21 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k5NMXLCY012475; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-222.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.106]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:33:21 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:33:20 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available Thread-Index: AcaXCOFPe6E0z+s0Rs+qYbhTJV7n6QACX8+Q From: "Les Ginsberg $ginsberg$" To: "Hannes Gredler" , "Stefano Previdi $sprevidi$" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2006 22:33:21.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[080C2980:01C69715] DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=3242; t=1151102001; x=1151966001; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ginsberg@cisco.com; z=From:=22Les=20Ginsberg=20$ginsberg$=22=20 |Subject:RE=3A=20[Isis-wg]=20Update=20to=20Multi-instance=20Multi-Topology=20Draf t=20available; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3DznkOvryiKj28s9WfTD24XS+M1zg=3D; b=qwofnXOf5/fS5QTHmiRcRbYi28r/MLns/ALvIFVMWE/vhlcVkvn2DvOT2I1wJC0tmMFu9fJo PJvZLk1xXBsJ2OsAZOEgWVVOaiUZo07WZF82WlZZ93YtFaCXA2RBjEnl; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3.cisco.com; header.From=ginsberg@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: isis mailing list X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Hannes - > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannes Gredler [mailto:hannes@juniper.net] > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 2:06 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) > Cc: isis mailing list > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft > available >=20 >=20 >=20 > Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > Folks - > > > > An update to the IS-IS Multi-instance Multi-topology draft is now > > available. Here's the URL and the Abstract. > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-previdi-isis-mi-mt-01.txt > > > > > > Abstract >=20 > stefano & les, >=20 > some comments and a question from my side: >=20 > comment ad 3.1 Instance Identifier TLV >=20 > it would be in the good tradition of the isis-wg to > make a suggestion of a codepoint for the TLV. >=20 Yes - I agree. I am sure we will get around to it before too long. > general comment & > comment ad 3.4.1 MI-ISIS Layer 2 multicast address and > comment ad 3.4.2 Interoperability using p2p networks >=20 > this draft is a non-downwards compatible change, from the moment you > add support for multi-instance all nodes in your network need to > support it. > We gave a lot of thought to backwards compatibility - and discussed those issues in the draft. If you are not convinced we considered all issues, please point out a specific problem (or problems) that you believe we overlooked. =20 > we should not use subnet dependend fields (like MAC adresses) > to control the versioning. That isn't what we are doing. We use a different MAC address to insure that legacy implementations won't see the PDUs they cannot correctly process. The protocol behavior hasn't changed at all - but we do need a way to allow multiple instances to run on a LAN and be invisible to legacy implementations. > since this is a essentially a redefinition > of > all known TLVs [which are from now on now keyed by the instance-id] > have you thought about using a different PDU version in the IS-IS > common header ? >=20 > suggestion: > pdu-version 1 would be used for topology 0 [fully downwards > compatible] and > pdu-version 2 would be used for the per-instance-keyed topologies. >=20 > all PDU type and TLV allocations stay as-is. >=20 > that way you rule out any subnet specific dependencies and any node > that > does not understand pdu-version 2 will ignore it anyway, which is IMO > a cleaner transition tool. > One of the wonderful things about IS-IS is that it has survived for a long time now and has been extended in many ways without need for a new protocol version. Such robustness is to be respected and not discarded lightly. Spinning a new version is a major step and one which the community has thus far consciously avoided - with good reason I think. I see nothing in the proposal which suggests this is a desirable approach, let alone necessary. But, I'll keep listening... >=20 > finally a question: how would i link nodes between different topologies if > i wanted to do so ? This sounds like a trick question. :-) Have them share a topology!! Les >=20 >=20 > /hannes _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jun 23 20:06:54 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvfo-0006tB-6H; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:06:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvfm-0006t1-Gy for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:06:50 -0400 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvfl-0002In-6p for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:06:50 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO beta.jnpr.net) ([172.24.18.109]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 17:06:49 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,170,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="562222794:sNHT31671064" Received: from [172.17.13.137] ([172.17.13.137]) by beta.jnpr.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:06:48 -0700 Message-ID: <449C8215.7010203@juniper.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:06:45 +0200 From: Hannes Gredler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050815) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2006 00:06:48.0272 (UTC) FILETIME=[16231D00:01C69722] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Cc: isis mailing list X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > We gave a lot of thought to backwards compatibility - and discussed > those issues in the draft. If you are not convinced we considered all > issues, please point out a specific problem (or problems) that you > believe we overlooked. i don't think the restrictions on p2p interfaces will practically work. - there is all sort of real-world strangeness (reconfig, APS) that could break this. it is easy to makeup a series of events where e.g. a LSP from a non-zero instance could end-up in instance 0. >> we should not use subnet dependend fields (like MAC adresses) >> to control the versioning. > > > That isn't what we are doing. We use a different MAC address to insure > that legacy implementations won't see the PDUs they cannot correctly > process. The protocol behavior hasn't changed at all - but we do need a > way to allow multiple instances to run on a LAN and be invisible to > legacy implementations. there is an underlying assumption that implementations actually parse the dest-MAC adress for sanitizing the PDU. if memory serves me correct then iso10589 does not contain a sanity check rule that requires to check the destination-MAC adress against the configured Level. in addition i know of at least two widely deployed implementations that do not do, or did not do this ;-) >>since this is a essentially a redefinition of >> all known TLVs [which are from now on now keyed by the instance-id] >> have you thought about using a different PDU version in the IS-IS >> common header ? >> >> suggestion: >> pdu-version 1 would be used for topology 0 [fully downwards >> compatible] and >> pdu-version 2 would be used for the per-instance-keyed >> topologies. >> >> all PDU type and TLV allocations stay as-is. >> >> that way you rule out any subnet specific dependencies and any node >> that does not understand pdu-version 2 will ignore it anyway, which is >> IMO a cleaner transition tool. > One of the wonderful things about IS-IS is that it has survived for a > long time now and has been extended in many ways without need for a new > protocol version. Such robustness is to be respected and not discarded > lightly. Spinning a new version is a major step and one which the > community has thus far consciously avoided - with good reason I think. > I see nothing in the proposal which suggests this is a desirable > approach, let alone necessary. But, I'll keep listening... TLVs are fine for doing incremental changes - but what you are suggesting here is to change the semantics of every TLV ever defined (which is to be keyed by the instance-id) - if you want to do that in a clean way then you need IMO redefine all TLVs (undesirable) or bump the pdu version field. - >>finally a question: how would i link nodes between different >> topologies if i wanted to do so ? > This sounds like a trick question. :-) oh it isn't - i just wanted to check if there is a way to keep seperate topologies and still have them connected on a choke point. --- another question which i don't really understand: what problem does MI solve that cannot be solved using MT ? (apart from the 12-Bit vs. 16-Bit Topology/Instance space difference). /hannes _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jun 23 20:19:19 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvrr-00028A-48; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:19:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvrp-000285-P2 for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:19:17 -0400 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftvro-0002YG-Gb for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:19:17 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO beta.jnpr.net) ([172.24.18.109]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 17:19:16 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,170,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="562224745:sNHT27408776" Received: from [172.17.13.137] ([172.17.13.137]) by beta.jnpr.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: <449C8500.8010706@juniper.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:19:12 +0200 From: Hannes Gredler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050815) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] IS-IS HMAC SHA Cryptographic Authentication References: <20060502003800.11171.qmail@web25411.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060502003800.11171.qmail@web25411.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2006 00:19:15.0559 (UTC) FILETIME=[D38E0F70:01C69723] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org manav, draft looks good - it would be nice if you could add suggestions for CRYPTO_AUTH codepoints to foster pre-standard implementation and testing. we should adopt this as an wg-document. /hannes Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi, > > We have updated the draft to include HMAC-SHA-384 and HMAC-SHA-512 authentication modes. There were some other minor comments as well that we had received. Those have been addressed in this version. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-01.txt > > Would appreciate a feedback from the WG. > > Cheers, > Manav _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jun 23 22:15:31 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtxgG-0002BZ-Re; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:15:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtxgF-00029h-GU for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:15:27 -0400 Received: from web25415.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.176.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtxgE-0000zk-3a for isis-wg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:15:27 -0400 Received: (qmail 2522 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jun 2006 02:15:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZIege43GPjpjOHdhc/BE3g/yPp9ohi5B0IFvFSAWn5whdA7AkJmxAsCeyJ4Kqt767NzGUUf3BfENHSk8TY0QbrrR+af1xyfTia4HbV3gQqOxXBGGXWrF0B6CITUzqUS3irk8UwifPVjeIu6XOB125ixxEOP0aySp5j8AEDFWnLE= ; Message-ID: <20060624021525.2520.qmail@web25415.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.144.106.189] by web25415.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:15:25 GMT Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:15:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] IS-IS HMAC SHA Cryptographic Authentication To: Hannes Gredler In-Reply-To: <449C8500.8010706@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Manav Bhatia List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Hannes, You are probably looking at an earlier copy. We have updated the draft wherein we have suggested a value of 2 to be used for CRYPTO_AUTH mechanisms. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-02.txt Cheers, Manav ----- Original Message ---- From: Hannes Gredler To: Manav Bhatia Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org Sent: Saturday, 24 June, 2006 5:49:12 AM Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] IS-IS HMAC SHA Cryptographic Authentication manav, draft looks good - it would be nice if you could add suggestions for CRYPTO_AUTH codepoints to foster pre-standard implementation and testing. we should adopt this as an wg-document. /hannes Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi, > > We have updated the draft to include HMAC-SHA-384 and HMAC-SHA-512 authentication modes. There were some other minor comments as well that we had received. Those have been addressed in this version. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-01.txt > > Would appreciate a feedback from the WG. > > Cheers, > Manav _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jun 24 13:02:43 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FuBWm-0006HH-AZ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:02:36 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FuBWk-0006CD-ND for isis-wg@ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:02:34 -0400 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.177]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FuBWj-0000CN-Eb for isis-wg@ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:02:34 -0400 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w49so954584pyg for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:02:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fjnzIJhJu4y2PB9FHXIOGr6HdtTkm+9NLvqNN4hv0Vwh7u5t7ow840181LXPVB4aAkHwFMXTWJs8O0naoTHnxDtITJNCyNfPvkSDiKoc9jBBTXuiB/oq2wTC22fTP3EZrgyatNVgc0AXApcGJ1QA0dvErvG98Fpdm/Jruc+T1/c= Received: by 10.35.37.18 with SMTP id p18mr3716380pyj; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.9.18 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:32:30 +0530 From: "Abhishek Verma" To: "Hannes Gredler" Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] IS-IS HMAC SHA Cryptographic Authentication In-Reply-To: <449C8500.8010706@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060502003800.11171.qmail@web25411.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <449C8500.8010706@juniper.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: Manav Bhatia , isis-wg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0530478362==" Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org --===============0530478362== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_245_33217110.1151168550461" ------=_Part_245_33217110.1151168550461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If this is a call for show of hands, then this draft has my support too. I think its a reasonable item to be taken up by the WG. Toms On 6/24/06, Hannes Gredler wrote: > > manav, > > draft looks good - it would be nice if you could add suggestions > for CRYPTO_AUTH codepoints to foster pre-standard > implementation and testing. > > we should adopt this as an wg-document. > > /hannes > > Manav Bhatia wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We have updated the draft to include HMAC-SHA-384 and HMAC-SHA-512 > authentication modes. There were some other minor comments as well that we > had received. Those have been addressed in this version. > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-01.txt > > > > Would appreciate a feedback from the WG. > > > > Cheers, > > Manav > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > -- -- Computer Science Deptt. Institute of Technology, BHU Varanasi - India ------=_Part_245_33217110.1151168550461 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

If this is a call for show of hands, then this draft has my support too.

I think its a reasonable item to be taken up by the WG.

Toms

On 6/24/06, Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net> wrote:

manav,

draft looks good - it would be nice if you could add suggestions
for CRYPTO_AUTH codepoints to foster pre-standard
implementation and testing.

we should adopt this as an wg-document.

/hannes

Manav Bhatia wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have updated the draft to include HMAC-SHA-384 and HMAC-SHA-512 authentication modes. There were some other minor comments as well that we had received. Those have been addressed in this version.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-manral-isis-hmac-sha-01.txt
>
> Would appreciate a feedback from the WG.
>
> Cheers,
> Manav

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

--
--
Computer Science Deptt.
Institute of Technology, BHU
Varanasi - India
------=_Part_245_33217110.1151168550461-- --===============0530478362== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg --===============0530478362==-- From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jun 27 09:12:26 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvDMd-0005w9-EH; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:12:23 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvDMb-0005w4-VR for isis-wg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:12:21 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvDMa-0006VG-KE for isis-wg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:12:21 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2006 06:12:19 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,180,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="301636589:sNHT829266722" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RDCJZt006035; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:12:19 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k5RDCJCU013314; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-222.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.106]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:12:19 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available Thread-Index: AcaXIhbccEQgeqFiSIGTrw9ptNbMcgCxsb/A From: "Les Ginsberg $ginsberg$" To: "Hannes Gredler" , "Stefano Previdi $sprevidi$" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2006 13:12:19.0577 (UTC) FILETIME=[51D2C690:01C699EB] DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=2433; t=1151413939; x=1152277939; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1001; h=From:Subject; d=cisco.com; i=ginsberg@cisco.com; z=From:=22Les=20Ginsberg=20$ginsberg$=22=20 |Subject:RE=3A=20[Isis-wg]=20Update=20to=20Multi-instance=20Multi-Topology=20Draf t=20available; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3DDWun3gDgzSdfULrIeHt6lDjed4s=3D; b=N0PhoSVFppaXlSVLhW+pB0u4nhI5fQfmicFQ728WQ2GPlKVPNX6r+YEDhzjJV3Ec2uN44H0z 4KtLNbvUgQBhwKgz5/clTqbESmbCg+OUAV6Oyh4EH5cs/BGmVJhxuOS8; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1.cisco.com; header.From=ginsberg@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Cc: isis mailing list X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Hannes - You raise some good points which we have been discussing. Before providing a more complete response, I wanted to get clarification on one particular point. You said: > there is an underlying assumption that implementations actually parse > the dest-MAC adress for sanitizing the PDU. if memory serves me correct > then iso10589 does not contain a sanity check rule that requires > to check the destination-MAC adress against the configured Level. >=20 > in addition i know of at least two widely deployed implementations that > do not do, or did not do this ;-) >=20 The L3 interface to the subnetwork layer for a LAN typically calls for the L3 layer to register multicast addresses of interest. In the case of IS-IS, it would register some subset of (AllL1IS, AllL2IS, AllIS) depending on what levels it supports and whether it also supports ES-IS. Multicast address filtering would then be done by the subnetwork layer through some combination of hardware filtering and software filtering. This filtering is necessary for two reasons: 1)Without it, L3 would be deluged with irrelevant multicast PDUs 2)As the subnetwork layer typically supports multiple L3 clients, it must demultiplex the multicast PDUs of interest and direct them to the interested clients If one were to examine the IS-IS code in a given implementation which is processing incoming PDUs on a LAN, I would not be surprised at all to discover that there is no MAC destination address checking in that code. But that omission is not of significance to the proposed MI extensions so long as the filtering I describe above is being performed at a lower layer. If however, there is no multicast address filtering (or imperfect filtering) being performed at the subnetwork layer, then this is of significance to the proposed extensions. However, the absence of such filtering would require such an implementation to spend a lot of time at L3 discarding irrelevant PDUs - and therefore seems highly unlikely. In the context of my remarks, could you please clarify exactly what you believe is and is not being done as regards multicast address filtering in the implementations with which you are familiar? I also invite others to comment on the same issue so that we may better understand the nature of the problems (if any) that the proposed MI extensions might cause on LANs. Thanx. Les _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jun 27 18:28:57 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvM3C-00084E-Fn; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:28:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvM3B-000849-PF for isis-wg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:28:53 -0400 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvM39-0003ZV-Ff for isis-wg@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:28:53 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO beta.jnpr.net) ([172.24.18.109]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2006 15:28:51 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,184,1149490800"; d="scan'208"; a="563331006:sNHT32672540" Received: from [10.8.0.10] ([172.26.24.52]) by beta.jnpr.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:28:49 -0700 Message-ID: <44A1B11E.5080604@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 00:28:46 +0200 From: Hannes Gredler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050815) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Update to Multi-instance Multi-Topology Draft available References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2006 22:28:50.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[105495B0:01C69A39] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: isis mailing list , "Stefano Previdi $sprevidi$" X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org les, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: [ ... ] > If however, there is no multicast address filtering (or imperfect > filtering) being performed at the subnetwork layer, then this is of > significance to the proposed extensions. However, the absence of such > filtering would require such an implementation to spend a lot of time at > L3 discarding irrelevant PDUs - and therefore seems highly unlikely. [ ... ] > In the context of my remarks, could you please clarify exactly what you > believe is and is not being done as regards multicast address filtering > in the implementations with which you are familiar? the way L2-mcast-filtering is implemented today in the kernels that i have seen, (netbsd to give an example - see http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/netiso) is that the kernel driver has got a wellknown,hardcoded list of L2 mcast MAC adresses (AllL1IS, AllL2IS, AllIS, AllES) - as soon you enable AF_ISO on one of its interfaces then you end up getting the full show. right know there isn't a way for a userland module to dynamically add or remove an arbitrary MAC address at runtime. the anticipation of the kernel folks is that PDU can get proper demuxed based on higher-level information (here the NLPID). with this model no harm (at best some inefficiency) is caused at higher layers. when we talk about protocol extensions i really dislike to redo all kernel APIs for bcast interfaces if the same can get done at a cheaper cost, which would be to bump the IS-IS PDU version field. can you give some specific reason(s) why extending the PDU version is not a viable choice ? to me that seems to be the most prolific solution as there are -no assumptions about the L2 filtering model of the underlying kernel -it is uniform on ptp and bcast circuits. -at no point i need to worry about downwards compatibility (v1 = old nodes that don't support per instance TLV keying) (v2 = new nodes that do support per instance TLV keying) -little changes at the IS-IS pdu-specific input parsers let me also re-iterate my last question [which seemed to slip through the cracks] what is it that can be done with MI that cannot be done with MT ? /hannes _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg