From LolaweirConnolly@wikipedia.org Sat Dec 01 20:59:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iye6u-0003xA-6o; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:59:08 -0500 Received: from c-76-103-139-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([76.103.139.4] helo=christop3li8vj.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iye6t-0006OD-RP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:59:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host44629972.wikipedia.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id EHAIFdco22.375488.4NS.kJr.8970554504112 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:58:56 +0800 Message-ID: <15f8001c83486$eca864e0$6401a8c0@christop3li8vj> From: "Fannie Lund" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_411EA_01C834D9.A74EDC50-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 11:50:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iys0X-0006nQ-R7; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:49:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iys0W-0006nF-PV for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:49:28 -0500 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iys0U-0008Df-Th for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:49:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B82E28000303; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:49:26 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z2gMMA3fxUb2; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:49:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4B728000302; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:49:11 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:49:09 +0100 Message-ID: <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF391A57@mx1.office> In-Reply-To: <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF317AD2@mx1.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Thread-Index: AcgtC2UEDzYoz5PFTdCpeI6ysucapQAAlGfwAf1Ml0A= References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> <46FD1E53.2040305@ripe.net> <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF3177DA@mx1.office><6CAABBF9-4E73-470B-883F-20538A31DA21@nokia.com><4742C20F.10405@ripe.net><5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF31792E@mx1.office><5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF317A22@mx1.office><9CC06C0C-086C-48ED-813F-B9E0270031AB@nokia.com> <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF317AD2@mx1.office> From: "Saverio Niccolini" To: "Saverio Niccolini" , "Lars Eggert" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 Cc: Henk Uijterwaal , IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I have updated the draft removing the default as we agreed. I am looking forward to discuss if there are any open issues during the WG session on Monday (AOB slot) thus we can close this and I can submit the -07 version. Cheers, Saverio =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dr. Saverio Niccolini Senior Researcher NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Research Division=09 Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg Tel. +49 (0)6221 4342-118 Fax: +49 (0)6221 4342-155 e-mail: saverio.niccolini@nw.neclab.eu <-- !!! NEW ADDRESS !!! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Saverio Niccolini [mailto:Saverio.Niccolini@nw.neclab.eu]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:45 PM > To: Lars Eggert > Cc: Henk Uijterwaal; IETF IPPM WG > Subject: RE: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 >=20 > I am fine with removing them... >=20 > Saverio >=20 > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dr. Saverio Niccolini > Senior Researcher > NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Research Division=09 > Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg > Tel. +49 (0)6221 4342-118 > Fax: +49 (0)6221 4342-155 > e-mail: saverio.niccolini@nw.neclab.eu <-- !!! NEW ADDRESS !!! > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria=20 > Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 > =20 > =20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lars Eggert [mailto:lars.eggert@nokia.com] > > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:26 PM > > To: Saverio Niccolini > > Cc: Henk Uijterwaal; IETF IPPM WG > > Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > On 2007-11-21, at 21:00, ext Saverio Niccolini wrote: > > > I must admit this is a weak point of the draft (as you noticed). > > > The default values in the info model are not really showing a=20 > > > consistent indication... Maybe it is worth removing at > > least some of > > > them for which the study is not complete. > >=20 > > so I understand now that the defaults in the info model are=20 > based on=20 > > what most traceroute implementations seem to use as a default. > >=20 > > > I know that browsing on the web does not mean we have real > > defaults, > > > that is why I called them BCPs. > >=20 > > Ah - I was confused by the term BCP, because I thought you were=20 > > refering to a BCP-level RFC that would defined them. > > That's not the case then. > >=20 > > > What is your suggestion, how should we handle this? > >=20 > > Why does the info model even *have* defaults? > >=20 > > For a given measurement, you'd always store what the traceroute=20 > > implementation that was used for the measurement used for all=20 > > parameters (i.e., either the default parameters of that traceroute=20 > > implementation, or what the user that ran the tool chose as=20 > overrides=20 > > for that run for some of those implementation defaults). > >=20 > > If this is the case, I'm unclear why the info model even includes=20 > > defaults - can they simply be removed? > >=20 > > (Or am I missing something fundamental here?) > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Lars > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From LorrainetubuleHilton@ielanguages.com Sun Dec 02 12:06:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IysGZ-0002Sz-Tw; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:06:03 -0500 Received: from pc-115-197-45-190.cm.vtr.net ([190.45.197.115] helo=pilar) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IysGY-0001UR-PK; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:06:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host67161865.ielanguages.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jXvBwJy548.447846.NSx.4k4.0238817412124 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:08:13 -0100 Message-ID: <55bdc01c8359c$d3ff66c0$73c52dbe@pilar> From: "Geraldine Grace" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_55BD8_01C8359C.D3FF66C0-- From LulaalmanacBoswell@ielanguages.com Sun Dec 02 13:33:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iytd8-0007D1-Rq; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:33:26 -0500 Received: from 82-33-129-81.cable.ubr01.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.33.129.81] helo=karenh330pqx2h) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iytd8-0003y5-5C; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:33:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host15105957.ielanguages.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id KzEC9EKG12.879647.fnM.CWK.5945998740954 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: <2addc01c83511$cfbec000$51812152@karenh330pqx2h> From: "Maryann Villegas" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_2ADD8_01C83511.CFBEC000-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 13:41:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IytkK-0005GP-JN; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:40:52 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IytkJ-0005GI-7D for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:40:51 -0500 Received: from postboy.ripe.net ([193.0.19.3]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IytkI-0004yf-FX for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:40:51 -0500 Received: by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id A0C5A6A0A5; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:40:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4926A08B; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:40:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-2579.ietf70.org (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731912F583; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:40:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4752FC2D.60904@ripe.net> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:40:45 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Saverio Niccolini Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> <46FD1E53.2040305@ripe.net> <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF3177DA@mx1.office><6CAABBF9-4E73-470B-883F-20538A31DA21@nokia.com><4742C20F.10405@ripe.net><5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF31792E@mx1.office><5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF317A22@mx1.office><9CC06C0C-086C-48ED-813F-B9E0270031AB@nokia.com> <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF317AD2@mx1.office> <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF391A57@mx1.office> In-Reply-To: <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF391A57@mx1.office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: U 0.267009 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 972b3f368959b283b1c01c8a6d9a11cd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Saverio Niccolini wrote: > Dear all, > > I have updated the draft removing the default as we agreed. > > I am looking forward to discuss if there are any open issues > during the WG session on Monday (AOB slot) thus we can close > this and I can submit the -07 version. I'll mention this in the "status of drafts not discussed" item. Henk > > Cheers, > Saverio > > ============================================================ > Dr. Saverio Niccolini > Senior Researcher > NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Research Division > Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg > Tel. +49 (0)6221 4342-118 > Fax: +49 (0)6221 4342-155 > e-mail: saverio.niccolini@nw.neclab.eu <-- !!! NEW ADDRESS !!! > ============================================================ > NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria > Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Saverio Niccolini [mailto:Saverio.Niccolini@nw.neclab.eu] >> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:45 PM >> To: Lars Eggert >> Cc: Henk Uijterwaal; IETF IPPM WG >> Subject: RE: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 >> >> I am fine with removing them... >> >> Saverio >> >> ============================================================ >> Dr. Saverio Niccolini >> Senior Researcher >> NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Research Division >> Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg >> Tel. +49 (0)6221 4342-118 >> Fax: +49 (0)6221 4342-155 >> e-mail: saverio.niccolini@nw.neclab.eu <-- !!! NEW ADDRESS !!! >> ============================================================ >> NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria >> Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lars Eggert [mailto:lars.eggert@nokia.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:26 PM >>> To: Saverio Niccolini >>> Cc: Henk Uijterwaal; IETF IPPM WG >>> Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 2007-11-21, at 21:00, ext Saverio Niccolini wrote: >>>> I must admit this is a weak point of the draft (as you noticed). >>>> The default values in the info model are not really showing a >>>> consistent indication... Maybe it is worth removing at >>> least some of >>>> them for which the study is not complete. >>> so I understand now that the defaults in the info model are >> based on >>> what most traceroute implementations seem to use as a default. >>> >>>> I know that browsing on the web does not mean we have real >>> defaults, >>>> that is why I called them BCPs. >>> Ah - I was confused by the term BCP, because I thought you were >>> refering to a BCP-level RFC that would defined them. >>> That's not the case then. >>> >>>> What is your suggestion, how should we handle this? >>> Why does the info model even *have* defaults? >>> >>> For a given measurement, you'd always store what the traceroute >>> implementation that was used for the measurement used for all >>> parameters (i.e., either the default parameters of that traceroute >>> implementation, or what the user that ran the tool chose as >> overrides >>> for that run for some of those implementation defaults). >>> >>> If this is the case, I'm unclear why the info model even includes >>> defaults - can they simply be removed? >>> >>> (Or am I missing something fundamental here?) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Lars >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >> > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? Alan Greenspan on the next elections _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 14:24:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyuQr-0006ct-OA; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:24:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyuQq-0006bI-HH for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:24:48 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.19.2]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyuQq-0002Nb-31 for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:24:48 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 5CD9323F4C; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:24:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF4623F48 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:24:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-2579.ietf70.org (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD232F583 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:24:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4753067C.3010602@ripe.net> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:24:44 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000001 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: b2dac6a63674b6dbf0287ec07617907f X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Slides X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, For those of you presenting tomorrow: please send us your slides... Matt & Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? Alan Greenspan on the next elections _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From Nikolai376@fredsteen.de Sun Dec 02 23:52:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz3I8-0005VE-Hz for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:52:24 -0500 Received: from [221.139.111.98] (helo=[221.139.111.98]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz3I7-0000gq-BM for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:52:24 -0500 Received: from samsung-x5q2g9m ([148.117.89.3]:9642 "EHLO samsung-x5q2g9m" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [221.139.111.98] with ESMTP id S22GWAWTHSUDUWTE (ORCPT ); Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:52:37 +0900 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:52:14 +0900 From: "Nikolai suh" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: lgorolhp Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Taking MANSTER, you get astonishingly fast penis enlargement results http://ohmelgar.com/
From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 13:42:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGEP-0007Z0-EZ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:41:25 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGEN-0007X7-Vc for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:41:24 -0500 Received: from postboy.ripe.net ([193.0.19.3]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGEN-0002nM-KH for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:41:23 -0500 Received: by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id C622E6A193; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:41:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889D66A18D for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:41:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from RIPE-NCC-101045.local (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089102F583; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:41:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47544DCF.5050808@ripe.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:41:19 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henk Uijterwaal , IETF IPPM WG References: <4753067C.3010602@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <4753067C.3010602@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: a261291b8309f95e2f3470aa42814ac2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Re: Slides X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > Hi all, > > For those of you presenting tomorrow: please send us your slides... We haven't received anything so-far, > > Matt & Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? Alan Greenspan on the next elections _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 13:57:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGTY-0002Ql-PV; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:57:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGTW-0002QP-Rv for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:57:02 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzGTW-0002UH-Fh for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:57:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F7C47C81 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00842-05 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E7447D27 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:57:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4754517C.3060900@internet2.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:57:00 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: Subject: [ippm] materials for the meeting today X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Just a short reminder: The IPPM meeting is today between 15:20 and 17:20 PT in the Cypress room (upstairs). For those not at the meeting, audio should be available here: see for details. Jabber, should we have a scribe (i'll try to watch for remote questions, anyway) will be in the ippm room at jabber.ietf.org , with archives at . see also meeting materials that we have received will be at , search for "ippm". --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 19:34:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLjn-0006jo-RY; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:34:11 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLjm-0006ia-JA for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:34:10 -0500 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLjl-0007Rn-NP for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:34:10 -0500 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so889508and for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:34:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; bh=zrW8jFpyMnPRBQkGkG17dZ2VUbKSWnMWYDZF4UbxYUs=; b=xoz1HejC99Jf3hOLHoY7HkJMWWsU/i+5lT8CKnd2DZGT9SQkIddbLWr70wUjBk4Q9I2JlZUWDd22iub0ZEXtEruTL8IUkrgecP+wZIHMJHRgYIaJzUZKS1aaKOSyp3OES6HoDonSomZh3xIuSXAtrjwGXdgs6ayrxPqzhHLwuEI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=TX97qKTMHVms1tMzLzYRAkTZydO5P6u8FFG7nragnDw9DxNP+S60kglUwoyiaj5xniNy2eI3YqvK5UTRq92GaFYrZ6gpuynwuLnZkC9WZ0FkQaLANgJ4NJO1ovB41BvrP03BNUyuMv5tq3y12kh4FJOtIhLXBIQ3AfqMrEj4UnA= Received: by 10.150.199.21 with SMTP id w21mr1636527ybf.1196728449231; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.144.5 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:34:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13786f330712031634s50d7ff6ay61f314ab1004856b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:34:09 -0500 From: "Joseph Kopena" To: ippm@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: a3e06d2037601607 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba Cc: Subject: [ippm] Multi-Metrics Comments X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, A number of comments on draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-05.txt follow. They are also available here in slightly easier to read HTML form: http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/tjkopena/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Reading.Draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-05 Thanks! ------------ ! draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-05 !! Content Points Sec 2.3, "A metric is said to be spatial if one of the hosts (measurement collection points) involved is neither the source nor the destination of the measured packet." should perhaps be "nor a destination of the measured packet" in order to not preclude spatial metrics from being applied to one-to-group metrics in the future. Sec 4.1.5, "One consequence of these uncertainties is that times of a measure at different hosts shall not be used to order hosts on the path of a measure;" should perhaps be "One consequence of these uncertainties is that times measured at different hosts SHALL NOT be used to order hosts on the path of a measure;" I'm not sure if that "SHALL NOT" conforms to convention, but it should be more clear that this is a significant (and correct) directive. Sec 4.2.5 says something about the possibility of a "0" appearing in the packet loss sequence after a "1." This sentence is very unclear & should be fixed. Further, it should be elaborated on as to how exactly that scenario could happen. In the intuitive understanding of packets and paths this isn't possible (at least in my view), but I could believe there is some case or architecture which might permit it. It should be made more clear in this document how Sections 4.1 and 4.3 differ. This is as simple as explicitly stating early in 4.3 that it's talking about delay variation rather than delay. Sec 6.1.2 notes that the metric is not necessarily tied directly to multicast in order to enable measurement over a unicast link. I note that one use of the metrics here would be to make comparisons such as multicast versus unicast fan-out. They may also have use in overlay multicast and other architectures not directly based on traditional IP multicast. Sec 7 should be reworded in terms of "the receiving group" or similar, rather than "the multicast group" due to the reasons in Sec 6.1.2 and the previous paragraph here. I don't think it's exactly out of scope for the document to discuss computation of single value metrics from either path or one-to-group metrics. Commentary on how best to handle the issues therein, such as packet loss, seem to be something that readers will be really looking for in reading this document. I would also say it's worth considering splitting the draft into two---one for path metrics, one for one-to-group metrics. The draft is fairly long, and there's not necessarily a lot of overlap between them. For example, I am very interested in the multicast metrics but less so in the path metrics. However, it is very easy to skip to that section in the current draft and this is not a high priority suggestion. Perhaps it would be enough to simply note in the introduction that they do not build on each other and sections may skipped without loss. !! Document Points In general, I don't understand the convention on the case given metric names and concepts. They're sometimes in upper case and sometimes not. Examples are listed in typographic points below. If there is a convention, it's not clear and they come across as inconsistent. If there is no convention, they should be more consistently (lower) cased. Sec 6.1.2, in all previous sections a one line description of identifiers is given, but here just the type in several cases. !! Minor Typographic Points * Sec 2.2, ".. called "points of interest", where one" should be ".. called "points of interest," where one" * Sec 2.5, odd capitalization of "One-to-group" in "Points of interest of One-to-group metrics are the intended," * Sec 2.7, odd capitalization of "One-way" in "For instance, if One-way delay," * Sec 2.8, "sampling interval at different places in a network at different time" should be "... times" * Sec 3.1, "Spatial measure typically give the individual performance of an" should be "Spatial measures..." * Sec 3.3, odd capitalization of "Group-to-one" and "Group-to-group" in "measurements on Group-to-one and Group-to-group topologies." * Sec 4.1.2, "i, An integer if the list <1,2,...,n> which ordered the hosts in the path." should be "i, An integer in the ordered list <1,2,...,n> of hosts in the path." * Sec 4.1.2, "dT* a delay, the one-way delay for a measured packet." should be "dT*, a delay, the one-way delay for a measured packet." to be consistent. * Sec 4.1.15, "the delay looks to decrease: dTi > DTi+1. This seem typically du" should be "The delay looks to decrease: dTi > DTi+1. This is frequently due" * Sec 4.1.5 odd capitalization of "Clocks" in "Errors or uncertainties related to Clocks." This occures again in 4.5. I realize it's probably taken directly from the existing RFC... * Sec 4.2, odd capitalization of "one-way-Packet-Loss" in "end-to-end one-way-Packet-Loss measurements" * Sec 4.2.5, "the result includes the sequence 1,0." should be "The result..." but see the above discussion on this section. * Sec 4.2.4, "value of Bi of 0 means that dTi is a finite value" should be "value of 0 for Bi means..." * Sec 4.3, "Following we adapt some of them and introduce points specific which are to spatial measurement." should be "In the following we adapt some of them and introduce points specific to spatial measurement." * Sec 4.4.1, odd capitalization of "Loss" in "depending on the consistency of the Loss threshold among the points" * Sec 4.4.1, "The analysis of such results is not deterministic: has the path change?" should be "The analysis of such results is not deterministic: Has the path changed?" * Sec 4.4.2 has some obvious issues in: "A perfect Host Path Digest (hum! of cource from the measurement point of view only, that is, corresponding to the real path the test packet experimented) may include several times several hosts" (skipped Section 5) * Sec 6.1, odd capitalization of "Definition," "One-way," and "Delay" in "A Definition for one-to-group One-way Delay" * Sec 6.1.2, "This parameter is to identify the measured traffic" should be "... to differentiate the measured traffic" * Sec 6.1.2, "It is set to be optional" should be "It is optional" * Sec 6.1.3, odd capitalization in "The value of a Type-P-one-to-group-One-way-Delay-Vector is a set of singletons metrics Type-P-One-way-Delay [RFC2679]." * In that same line, "singletons" metrics should perhaps be "singleton" (giving up on the odd capitalization here) * Sec 7, "They managed to collect" should be "They collect" * Sec 7, "They can provide sufficient information regarding the network performance in terms of each receiver and guide engineers to identify potential problem happened on each branch of a multicast routing tree." should be "They provide sufficient information regarding network performance in terms of each receiver to guide engineers and identify potential problems on each branch of a multicast routing tree." * Sec 7, "However, these metrics can not" should be "... cannot" * Sec 7, "later one can have statistics" should be "latter..." 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You only say what it doesn't >do. The first bullet item describes this: - The Session Receiver is called the Session Reflector in the TWAMP architecture. The Session-Reflector has the capability to create and send a measurement packet when it receives a measurement packet. Unlike the Session Receiver, the Session Reflector does not collect any packet information. Is this sufficient? >4) I realize we try not to duplicate any verbage in related RFCs, but I >would love to see a couple lines in the introduction section saying that >TWAMP consists of two protocols, and explains in one or two lines what >their purpose is exactly. Added that info >5) Silly comment: Expiration Dates throughout the headers do not match >the cover page. Thanks, easy to miss >6) Section 3.5 - Does the server being contacted with an unknown >command, >and always responding create a security risk? We think not. This is a response inside a TCP connection that has been accepted. We changed the MUST to SHOULD. > >7) Section 3.5: Can we modify the following sentence from: > >"Both Conf-Sender and Conf-Receiver Must be set to 0 since the..." > >To: > >"Both the Conf-Sender field and Conf-Receiver field Must be set to 0 >since the..." OK > >8) Can we spell out "SID" in section 3.5? > >9) Can we spell out MBZ and HMAC in section 3.5? Done and Done >10) In section 4.1, it mentions that the session sender configuration >isn't defined in this standard. Is it defined anywhere? No, these protocols are not defined in OWAMP, either. 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180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

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Win $$$ instead of throwing it all away at other casinos. http://eurocasinoaj.com/ From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 09 06:20:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1KCM-0004P6-2J; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:19:50 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1KCL-0004P1-JJ for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:19:49 -0500 Received: from postboy.ripe.net ([193.0.19.3]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1KCK-00026c-7B for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:19:49 -0500 Received: by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 605C36A063; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:19:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postboy.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC646A03F for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from RIPE-NCC-101045.local (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92322F583 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:19:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <475BCF4E.9040209@ripe.net> Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 12:19:42 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.042168 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 90d09e81e4b8d7dc1c28b059d4d13f4c X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ba0d4c5f57f7c289496fce758bbf4798 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Draft minutes IPPM meeting in Vancouver X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM group, Please find below the draft minutes from last week's meeting. Thanks to Jay Karthik for producing them. Comments to the list or the chairs please, Henk -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Minutes from IPPM meeting. Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 22:21:56 -0500 From: Jay Karthik (jakarthi) To: Matthew J Zekauskas , CC: Al Morton Agenda Bashing by - Chair Persons (Matthew Zekauskas & Henk Uijterwaal) Chair person then went over administrative requirements. Jay agreed to take minutes ---------------------------------------- TWAMP By Kaynam Heyadat TWAMP version 6 is needed and planned to be released. Al: 6) Section 3.5 - Does the server being contacted with an unknown command and always responding create a security risk? Chair person Matt said since it is on top of TCP it cannot be a big risk ---------------------------------------- Al's Framework for Metric Composition and spatial composition of Metrics. Presented his slides. Slide 2 - version of spatial-composition should have been 5. Explained types of composition. None objected Al's response for comments from Alan Clark. - Waiting for deadline hurts. No one reads the drafts. - In response to Rexa Fardid's comments Al agreed to some of them. Al: Since we added the term "index" in this version, it was a source of concern for both Reza and Loki (and others mentioned this off-line). Loki's concern regards the explicit scope, clearly this was an attempt to expand the scope of the draft and make it useful beyond IPPM. We need to carefully consider this course, and get feedback from the WG Al wanted to say "no" to referencing RFC editor submissions - typo there. More comments from Reza. Al agreed. Al would respond to more comments on the list. Al would address more of Loki's comments. Loki envisions a case where some sub-path metrics are not standardized, they might be proprietary, or may be covered by IPR. What is the implication on the composed metric, if proprietary and or IPR-encumbered metrics are used to compose a standard metric? Al further added that it is besides the point and worth further discussion since Loki deals with these issues in particular. Al wanted more comments on Framework and needs volunteers for reviewing spatial composition as well. Chairperson - Henk is pulling a list of volunteers. He asked that Al sends mail to the folks who volunteered seeking comments. Chairperson thanked folks who commented. --------------------------------------- Al presented status of the multimetrics draft. Al gave a good editorial read-through. Encouraged the audience to read. Joe Kopena From Drexel university - Wanted to know if the draft could be split into 2 since it is so huge. Most contents would not be overlapping. Al mentioned he did a similar approach with p2p and p2mp with some other work and agreed with this comment. Al agreed it is getting long - especially according to the Joe Kopena that when spatial jitter metric is added. Al said this point is well taken and asked if any other wanted to see the draft split. No one raised their hands. Al mentioned he will figure this out. Al wanted to have WGLC on version 06 by mid January. Henk commented that there was not much point in the split and Al added that someone with interest in one part of a draft can just read and comment on that part. Also has other comments he would send the list but 1 comment in section 4 - indicating a loss and ..... Statement is not clear. It is not obvious that it is possible. Al agreed. Need some clarification there. Al agreed If loss and delay was not part of the vector it would have been simpler. ---------------------------------------- Delay variation Applicability statement By Al Beat Benoit Claise on a nightly basis to evolve this draft. Al described 2 methods to create delay metrics. Described inter packet delay var. Section 3.2 has de-jitter buffer size - clarified that section further. Got some comment on Appendixes but need more. Requested audience to look at the recent version to figure out if their comments were addressed. Al summarized Loki'S comments. What is done in the draft is within the scope of this WG. Section 8.6 reference is important according to Loki and Al incorporated this amongst other comments. Al requested audience to point any ambiguity in the text. Al then acknowledged Carsten for his comments and discussed the comments. There was just 1 TBD from Bob Holley's comments. Al asked "Do we rely on delay variation for path change ? " Al asked if someone disagrees with the comparison table since that could be discussed. Al summarized that IPDV and PDV have their strengths and weaknesses. Suggestion for additional tasks and circumstances - if any should be sent soon. Chairperson - Henk suggested that the list of unresolved comments should be sent to the list. Al agreed. ---------------------------------------- Reporting IP Performance Metrics to Users Draft by Martin Swany Swany mentioned he took over as the editor of the ID. Talked about the renamed Metrics. Also went over other changes to the recent version. There are a couple of open issues and Swany requested comments on these. Swany asked if there was more clarifications than the naming issues. No question from audience ? Chairperson then mentioned there is a related draft by Al who was requested to present. ---------------------------------------- Reporting Metrics : Different point of view By Al Morton. In a humorous note - Al mentioned Steve Konish commented on Thanksgiving day and that he responded same day. Al: Average Delay Variation: a lot of people report this, but it doesn't relate to something useful for application design. Better to report the range or Pseudo range. Matt and Henk said they read this ID. Al indicated that this has been out for a while and solicited comments. No comments from audience. Al and chairpersons decided to ask the list. Steve Pratt, Loki and Jay Karthik volunteered to review this. ---------------------------------------- Duplicate Drafts - Henk Asked for comments and if this can be moved to WGLC. Al mentioned that it is in good shape for a near future - WGLC. ---------------------------------------- ITU-T SG 12 Performance Metrics Liaison - Al. Al mentioned that IPv6 is considered and raised a point that IPv6 needs to be looked at work done at IPPM. Henk clarified that none of the drafts are specific to IP versions. Matt suggested Al to let him know if something was explicit. Al gave an example of how TTL is now Hop Count. Consent is the term that ITU-T uses to indicate that the text is about to begin their Accelerated Approval process (AAP). If there are comments, then the text may still change. Al asked for comments on the G.chirp draft text from Q13. No question from audience. ---------------------------------------- Future of the WG. Henk mentioned that we are nearing the end of our task list and solicited comments/questions on this. Any opinions ? Al asked if there were any new proposal ? Henk mentioned not much. Lars Eggert mentioned 1 remaining item missing was definition of statistical equivalence in order to verify that multiple implementations implement the same metric correctly. This is needed to progress metrics along standards track. A implementation report is needed on this as well including details on whether the results generated for the same scenario are statistically equivalent. Al further mentioned - Test Plans - How are we making comparison - what is the threshold - How do deal with _____ - need to decide what is equivalent. Lars asked if there was a metric that the group was interested in a specific metric to be used as a test case for this process. (The process he mentioned earlier) Henk mentioned - interop was done for delay metrics. Henk took an action item to do dig up the old work from 2000. Matt agreed and gave an instance of this being done in the past. Al - slide will not produce the color green with Henk's work Saverio - like to have extension of the traceroute measurement draft taking into account additional measurement like ping etc. Matt - reluctant to open a can of worms. Yet he did open. :) Wanted to have clean separation between loss and delay measurements. Maybe they need to ride solo with clear procedures. Random thought. Joe Kopena From Drexel university - That would be useful - worthwhile in collecting it in a central way - Joe mentioned that this is a serious problem for MANETs. On mobile adhoc networks packet loss is significant and it complicates measurement. - Al agreed. He started characterizing them in the applicability statement. Kind of implementers guide for those 2 metrics. - Lars - What he heard thus far - Suggested ideas that were thrown were all close to the scope of the current charter. If folks are interested in further work from the charter, they need to prepare for a BOF. Matt clarified that by asking if the Charter needs a change the idea should be thrown on the list. Henk suggested we discuss this on the list as well. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? 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------=_NextPart_000_1CC6_01C8403A.66461950-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 17 05:30:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4DEc-0004Ou-9f; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:30:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4DEZ-0004Ka-DR; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:30:03 -0500 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4DEY-0006SW-Bk; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:30:03 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3159C26E60; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:30:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J4DEY-0006SU-3H; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:30:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:30:02 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D Action:draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-07.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Information Model and XML Data Model for Traceroute Measurements Author(s) : S. Niccolini, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-07.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2007-12-17 This document describes a standard way to store the configuration and the results of traceroute measurements. This document first of all describes the tool itself; afterwards, the common information model is defined dividing the information elements in two semantically separated groups (configuration elements and results ones). Moreover an additional element is defined to relate configuration elements and results ones by means of a common unique identifier. On the basis of the information model a data model based on XML is defined to store the results of traceroute measurements. 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This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Author(s) : J. Babiarz, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-06.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-12-18 The IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) working group's One-way Active Measurement Protocol [RFC4656] (OWAMP) provides a common protocol for measuring one-way metrics between network devices. OWAMP can be used bi-directionally to measure one-way metrics in both directions between two network elements. However, it does not accommodate round-trip or two-way measurements. This memo specifies a Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP), based on the OWAMP, that adds two-way or round-trip measurement capabilities. The TWAMP measurement architecture is usually comprised of two hosts with specific roles, and this allows for some protocol simplifications, making it an attractive alternative in some circumstances. 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This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Author(s) : J. Babiarz, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-06.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-12-18 The IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) working group's One-way Active Measurement Protocol [RFC4656] (OWAMP) provides a common protocol for measuring one-way metrics between network devices. OWAMP can be used bi-directionally to measure one-way metrics in both directions between two network elements. However, it does not accommodate round-trip or two-way measurements. This memo specifies a Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP), based on the OWAMP, that adds two-way or round-trip measurement capabilities. The TWAMP measurement architecture is usually comprised of two hosts with specific roles, and this allows for some protocol simplifications, making it an attractive alternative in some circumstances. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-06.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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   The RFC 4656 is not quite clear on how the Test streams are instantiated.   It just mentions that upon sending the Start-Ack the Server should start the streams, however, the Server is not the Session-Sender and hence I am not sure if a control packet exists to set that up.   From the block diagrams it seems that the Server does not communicate directly with the Session-Sender.   So is the information transmitted by the Control-Client to the Session-Sender while the Session-Receiver is informed by the Server?   If so how is any communication lag adjusted between the two separate legs  (CC -> SS and S -> SR) accounted for?


Thanks,
-Murtaza
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