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------=_NextPart_000_A9190_01C834A8.5EF08430-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 01:49:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyid2-0003i0-Rz; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:48:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyid0-0003U8-SA for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:48:34 -0500 Received: from h255129.v6pc245.miako.net ([43.245.255.129] helo=p222013007018.ppp.prin.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyicx-0001bM-7E for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:48:32 -0500 Received: from coin.bbtec.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p222013007018.ppp.prin.ne.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250796C4E2 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:41:56 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:41:56 +0900 Message-ID: From: FUJIKAWA Kenji To: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200712020306.05339.rdenis@simphalempin.com> References: <200712020306.05339.rdenis@simphalempin.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/21.4 (i386--netbsdelf) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Subject: Re: Source Address Selection just from Routing Information X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org R=E9mi Denis-Courmont; Thank you for your comments. At Sun, 2 Dec 2007 03:06:05 +0200, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: >=20 > Le Friday 30 November 2007 04:56:58 FUJIKAWA Kenji, vous avez =E9crit=A0: > > The downstream interface of router R is assigned both addresses > > 2001:db8:1001:R and 2001:db8:3001:R. > > This is required even if R has only a single downstream link. >=20 > As your document notes, these is needed *anyway*, because of source addre= ss=20 > ingress filtering by upstream ISPs. >=20 > One question though: I am a bit confused whether you're trying to replace= =20 > RFC3484 completely, or only to change Rule 8? >=20 No. This method should be added as one of the rules,=20 or become one independent RFC. The important thing is that some possible methods should be shown=20 for implementers and network managers. Then, they are responsible for choosing which method to take. > Also, you seem to suggest that "next hop" router addresses would become=20 > non-link-local prefix. Not sure about DHCPv6, but AFAIK, this contradicts= =20 > ICMPv6 autoconfiguration as we currently know it.=20 Yes. > What is the proposed=20 > solution? >=20 As said in the following, some routing protocol should be employed. > Similarly: >=20 > Note that the method of distributing routing information that > configures the routing tables mentioned in this document, is out > of the scope of this document. Some intra-domain routing protocol > may be adaptable. >=20 > Given the current size and churn of the routing tables, is this at all=20 > practical? >=20 Of course, an end host may have a full routing table, but it doest not have to have necessarily. This is the same situation to RFC3484. In RFC3484, the policy table does not have a full route in order to determine a source address. However, in my method, routing tables of end nodes and=20 the upstream router must not conflicts with each other. ------------------------------------------------------------------ FUJIKAWA Kenji(Ph. D.) 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How will jumbograms be coded in the IPv6 header if RH0 is rejected, at some point? Since both a length of 0 bytes and RH0 are expected in the IPv6 header, to indicate jumbogram (RFC 2675). 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RH0 is not required in any way for = jumbograms to work. Thanks Suresh (ccing 6man@ietf.org that is the mailing list for ipv6 maintenance) -----Original Message----- From: Manfredi, Albert E [mailto:albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com] Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 4:17 PM To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Question on IPv6 jumbograms =20 Perhaps this was covered in the RH0 deprecation discussions and I missed it. How will jumbograms be coded in the IPv6 header if RH0 is rejected, at some point? Since both a length of 0 bytes and RH0 are expected in the IPv6 header, to indicate jumbogram (RFC 2675). Bert -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Gally156@prouddaddy.net Tue Dec 04 06:39:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzW7J-00072z-6M for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:39:09 -0500 Received: from [201.50.103.25] (helo=20150103025.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzW7I-0003Vz-7J for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:39:08 -0500 Received: by 10.176.13.185 with SMTP id keHDTYpViBKQU; 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Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:27:09 -0500 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx06.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB4JR6vi010303 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:27:07 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:26:54 +0200 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:26:54 +0200 Received: from [130.129.67.119] (daec-linuxvpn059227.americas.nokia.com [10.241.59.227]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id lB4JQpbk030916 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:26:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bob Hinden Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:27:08 -0800 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2007 19:26:54.0401 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0BB8310:01C836AB] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Subject: 6man mailing list X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:57 PM, ext Suresh Krishnan wrote: > (ccing 6man@ietf.org that is the mailing list for ipv6 maintenance) There isn't (or shouldn't be) a 6man@ietf.org mailing list. The 6man working uses ipv6@ietf.org. See the charter page at: http://ietf.org/html.charters/6man-charter.html Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 04 14:30:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdSz-00056Q-DS; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:30:01 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdSy-00056A-0b for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:30:00 -0500 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdSx-0007vM-Ih for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:29:59 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw751.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB4JTxAE003652 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:29:59 -0600 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:29:59 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:29:18 -0500 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: 6man mailing list Thread-Index: Acg2q8cqgn0gS97yTfWwTPslhsbvdwAAC9oL References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: , "IETF IPv6 Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2007 19:29:59.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[0EC75B40:01C836AC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: Subject: RE: 6man mailing list X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org mea culpa. Too late in the night + lack of coffee in the coffee breaks. Cheers Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@nokia.com] Sent: Tue 4/12/2007 2:27 PM To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: 6man mailing list =20 On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:57 PM, ext Suresh Krishnan wrote: > (ccing 6man@ietf.org that is the mailing list for ipv6 maintenance) There isn't (or shouldn't be) a 6man@ietf.org mailing list. The 6man =20 working uses ipv6@ietf.org. 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--------------050804060704010707050007-- From AnnabelleannMyles@math.com Tue Dec 04 19:25:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izi57-00086G-1I; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:25:41 -0500 Received: from [190.40.25.72] (helo=pc03) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izi56-00065K-A4; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:25:40 -0500 Received: from chadwick by math.com with SMTP id 3lFviHtQbs for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:25:15 -0100 From: "Mallory Diggs" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzkYG-0003wl-71; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:03:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzkYF-0003v7-CB for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:03:55 -0500 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.176]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzkYE-0002Je-Um for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:03:55 -0500 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so9505086wah for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:03:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=NTijiqw7Qio5cpmBMn2c3LLP7I6iF+y7ohfOjNIbsx0=; b=pkqOupeS8Yp1V0zp2gtyV6CLd3vQGY9/nn8n2pciVm7RFKnTMlOqmFL9FrFn3cqJe4neaeFZaZV4/PY3VW8mSCOphzijA1tfVbK6F/2fP7gweNpx9RCYBtUiHl40ITOGTNBie7fwknK87sfmvYESmWrwG3tWlIpwrTiAJQbeGps= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WZiN2m6/1PKdPKZ67dRN1x4BidKg3owvaTLc3MeWfmwFmSF3nmjQjqy+IqAdqh64T1rwlbfh3kkg5xNySz6Sckd8tZ5PE1og/I77Upcb0EuP40WzJYxeEUfbwy3Az6ySKhQe4rjUzRBzkJjjg33/XOMLUcpLH6xjufz+38VRa28= Received: by 10.142.115.10 with SMTP id n10mr670263wfc.1196823834212; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.38.11 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:03:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0712041903p7a8633dbpd7e46700c185752d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:33:54 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Manfredi, Albert E" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question on IPv6 jumbograms X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bert, Thanks for pointing this out. I could not find any reference to the RH0 header either. Thanks again, Vishwas On Dec 4, 2007 2:47 AM, Manfredi, Albert E wrote: > Perhaps this was covered in the RH0 deprecation discussions and I missed > it. How will jumbograms be coded in the IPv6 header if RH0 is rejected, > at some point? Since both a length of 0 bytes and RH0 are expected in > the IPv6 header, to indicate jumbogram (RFC 2675). > > Bert > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From LeslieperspicaciousBanks@foundationmpls.com Tue Dec 04 22:48:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzlEu-0006QE-1z; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:48:00 -0500 Received: from laila.cpe.cableonda.net ([190.140.164.37]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzlEt-0007pz-Ep; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:47:59 -0500 Received: from flask by foundationmpls.com with SMTP id 1g8aD7eyFD for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:47:34 +0500 From: "Chester Johnston" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzluT-00058W-TL for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:30:57 -0500 Received: from 16.228.broadband3.iol.cz ([85.70.228.16]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzluS-0001B8-TZ for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:30:57 -0500 Received: from chovpspiii by MEDIMIX.COM.MX with ASMTP id 9FA32982 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:31:32 +0100 Received: from chovpspiii ([192.177.50.128]) by MEDIMIX.COM.MX with ESMTP id 2A5DAC04192E for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:31:32 +0100 Message-ID: <141CE706.E4033986@MEDIMIX.COM.MX> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:30:54 +0100 From: "FAUST McGillivray" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: lkriinkn Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Chicks don't pay you attention, because someone told your "friend" is
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8371B.350F50E0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 08:07:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IztyC-0002VB-KN; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:07:20 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzNoI-0003UV-Mc for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:46:58 -0500 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.181]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzNoI-0003tD-4y for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:46:58 -0500 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so13451429pye for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AoYPx8HWx/MW8HMSxdKBa8EaOIiy5Asv/fOBX/OCN/U=; b=XRshNRJDms+Caa5xumnNxagruF3jhm/ofQLfD+JMjomuDQr4TSqFtnOYejs3mIQuQdFh1PWsqr0k+j6wvVRI+Fa0JdeaMpM0adS6cwTDZE4cIB0SIhtoZAlYWJta5H/8LaPRRb36ssG9ySFKldh3RrJrVRV/QPYqEgA2scbZjdQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jRIwzO5rSSwPg8SNvibo0NjhaTi2cBfIa/+7d8xhfGdUT1CrVDr/WXMUaWGm393XUuf+l10tvcwqUse8He6gAiLWFNM/iOmFzMxJG84J8fdVLIXImyljV9nXeG2JxStSGD60FvdqNXvosaTmJ5TgIND0KllTfzLXqmLjRzemH10= Received: by 10.35.109.2 with SMTP id l2mr13757413pym.1196736417388; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.129.19.119? ( [130.129.19.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n67sm639735pyh.2007.12.03.18.46.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4754C043.4000103@googlemail.com> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:49:39 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Manfredi, Albert E" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:07:17 -0500 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question on IPv6 jumbograms X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi. If I understand what you are asking correctly, I think you have misread RFC 2675/2460. The jumbogram option lives in the hop-by-by-hop extension header (Header Type (Next header value) 0, option type code C2 hex). The routing header is a a different extension header (Header Type 43). Jumbograms are therefore not affected by the deprecation of RH0 (Header Type 43, Routing Type 0). Regards, Elwyn Manfredi, Albert E wrote: > Perhaps this was covered in the RH0 deprecation discussions and I missed > it. How will jumbograms be coded in the IPv6 header if RH0 is rejected, > at some point? Since both a length of 0 bytes and RH0 are expected in > the IPv6 header, to indicate jumbogram (RFC 2675). > > Bert > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 08:14:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izu4P-0007mH-4A; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:13:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izu4N-0007jr-8j for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:13:43 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([192.100.122.233] helo=mgw-mx06.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izu4L-0005Kx-Nn for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:13:43 -0500 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx06.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB5DDL7C020314; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:13:39 +0200 Received: from daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.111]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:13:25 +0200 Received: from daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) by daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:13:06 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:13:01 -0600 Message-ID: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated thread-index: Acg22lE41eCmnKxNQ+yXYUDLBJ+BEgAZWJpg References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 13:13:06.0362 (UTC) FILETIME=[92FE19A0:01C83740] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Bob.Hinden@nokia.com Subject: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Brian, =20 >> The 6MAN agenda for Vancouver has been updated. Please notice=20 >> that we will be *very* tight on time and the chairs will hold=20 >> presenters to there time allotment. I completely messed my schedule up, and had to leave last night, so I cannot make the meeting today. I tried to find you and Bob at the meeting, but didn't see you guys. Since the meeting is tight, maybe we can forgo my presentation, and just ask the following questions. 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node Requirements document was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node Requirements doc? 2) If there is interest, what should be update look like: a) Simple update, covering just the updates in the base RFCs. b) Update base RFCs, include some additional RFCs (related to mobility, security, etc.) c) Modify the current RFC structure in some way. As background, I know there are a lot of initiatives by other groups to define a core set of RFCs for particular environments, and I wanted to ensure that the current structure is sufficient, or should scope of the document be expanded in any. thanks, John -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 09:33:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzvJS-0003lb-Em; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:33:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzvJQ-0003lM-TI for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:33:20 -0500 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzvJP-0007EX-Gb for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:33:20 -0500 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5EXEg0019706 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id lB5EXE2Q133188 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id lB5EXENM031576 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (wecm-9-67-194-205.wecm.ibm.com [9.67.194.205]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5EXD9d031516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:13 -0500 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.1/8.12.5) with ESMTP id lB5EXBBr031834; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:11 -0500 Message-Id: <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: john.loughney@nokia.com In-reply-to: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> Comments: In-reply-to message dated "Wed, 05 Dec 2007 07:13:01 -0600." Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:33:11 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: Bob.Hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node Requirements > document > was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node > Requirements doc? Yes. The published RFC was already "old" by the time it gotten published because it had been on hold for reference dependencies for so long.... The USG (via NIST and DoD) have IPv6 profiles that are heavily based on the Node Requirements RFC. I think there are places where we should clarify existing language, based on the experience people have had in using RFC 4294. > 2) If there is interest, what should be update look like: > a) Simple update, covering just the updates in the base RFCs. Let's keep things small and focused, please. Just update the Node Requirements RFC. Note: we can always update it again later! To be useful, the published RFC needs to be up-to-date. I'd aim for getting the revisions done by summer of next year (i.e., around summer meeting time). Thomas -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From err@allazeppoladorata.it Wed Dec 05 09:56:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izvfa-00057m-6e for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:56:14 -0500 Received: from [201.48.231.2] (helo=[201.48.231.249]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzvfV-0004Sf-Pq for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:56:12 -0500 Received: from MARCELO ([116.184.145.29] helo=MARCELO) by [201.48.231.249] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1kJsWR-000CXL-be for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:56:22 -0200 Message-ID: <000501c8374e$f6473e20$f9e730c9@MARCELO> From: "Joni err" To: Subject: cnamoeht Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:56:05 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8373E.32BE6E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8373E.32BE6E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regards ipngwg-archive No surgery! 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C83772.A51C16A0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:39:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz9Y-0003Ui-KW; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:39:24 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz9W-0003UR-Rh for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:39:22 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([192.100.122.230] helo=mgw-mx03.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz9W-0001Ve-91 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:39:22 -0500 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB5IdBjw027979; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:39:20 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:39:00 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:39:00 +0200 Received: from mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.96]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:39:00 +0200 Received: from [10.162.25.189] (es-nira-25-189.europe.nokia.com [10.162.25.189]) by mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id lB5Icujb022579; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:38:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <655CA1E6-55EC-400F-9491-07477640C3BB@nsn.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Soininen Jonne (NSN-FI/Espoo)" Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:38:49 +0200 To: ext Thomas Narten X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 18:39:00.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A522360:01C8376E] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: john.loughney@nokia.com, ipv6@ietf.org, brian@innovationslab.net, Bob.Hinden@nokia.com Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hello everybody, I didn't get to the mic today as most of the things that I wanted to say were said. However, I would like to agree with Thomas. I think we should have a fairly timely update on the draft and get it basically up to date. We can in the future (if we have energy for it) rewrite it more substantially. Cheers, Jonne. On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:33 PM, ext Thomas Narten wrote: >> 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node >> Requirements >> document >> was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node >> Requirements doc? > > Yes. The published RFC was already "old" by the time it gotten > published because it had been on hold for reference dependencies for > so long.... > > The USG (via NIST and DoD) have IPv6 profiles that are heavily based > on the Node Requirements RFC. I think there are places where we should > clarify existing language, based on the experience people have had in > using RFC 4294. > >> 2) If there is interest, what should be update look like: >> a) Simple update, covering just the updates in the base RFCs. > > Let's keep things small and focused, please. Just update the Node > Requirements RFC. Note: we can always update it again later! > > To be useful, the published RFC needs to be up-to-date. I'd aim for > getting the revisions done by summer of next year (i.e., around summer > meeting time). > > Thomas > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:49:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzJU-0000Uo-Oj; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:49:40 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzJR-0000Tg-SK for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:49:38 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzJR-0002Kd-7N for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:49:37 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 13:49:36 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5Inai1019930; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:49:36 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5InZ0w011712; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:49:36 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:49:34 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:49:33 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg2q8cqgn0gS97yTfWwTPslhsbvdwAAC9oLADC+CJA= References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Suresh Krishnan" , , "IETF IPv6 Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 18:49:34.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[94349270:01C8376F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5345; t=1196880576; x=1197744576; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20that=20is=2 0ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Suresh=20Krishnan=22=20, =20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22IETF=20IPv6=20Mailing=20Lis t=22=20; bh=xsrOwD48JoTRL2tLgEVD0rwcg08Dv9ouMt5aOvPHPNk=; b=YSmMcBWXHCA17B9fI3qcg+qF43xqSWxvyRDyOWR8JuQAOCfCDjjHE3qKc9xyKoZo+nTynE1e F/zam4L5l9TSSEhGXPDrBnteYdLT5pELibYRBjr+DSjej93K8nrc4wTr; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab Cc: Subject: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1406334539==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1406334539== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8376F.93C005F9" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8376F.93C005F9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? =20 Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. Hemant ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8376F.93C005F9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text

The summary from = this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink = information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is = says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red = signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not = ambiguous?

 
Prefix = Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag = set
   = indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should = be
   = considered on-link.  Note, however, that a Prefix Information = option
   with = the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information = concerning
   = on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean = that
   = addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to = cancel
   a = previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with = the
   = L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior = (see
   Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an = address for which no
   information is known about the on-link = status of the address is to
   forward the packet to a default = router; the reception of a = Prefix
   = Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero = does not
   = change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated = as
   = on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section = 2.1.
   = Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have = the
   = autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8376F.93C005F9-- --===============1406334539== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1406334539==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:00:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzUJ-0003L4-7d; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:00:51 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzUH-000390-JI for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:00:49 -0500 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzUH-0003IX-7L for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:00:49 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB5J0lF5007845 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:00:48 -0600 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:00:46 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:00:45 -0500 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3cSQHyqWz6EVXSYCvSKMKMVLKMw== From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:00:46.0940 (UTC) FILETIME=[24DDB1C0:01C83771] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Subject: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is = necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the = existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's = say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 is = on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How would = it go about describing this? I see two ways a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses not = on the /64 b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link = flag)=3D0 I see b) as being more efficient than a) P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. Cheers Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:08:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzbm-0002VT-LT; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:08:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzbl-0002Qu-Lj for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:08:33 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzbj-0008Kc-7H for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:08:33 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 14:08:30 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5J8Uvw002006; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:08:30 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5J86C6008372; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:08:30 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:08:29 -0500 Received: from [161.44.65.179] ([161.44.65.179]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:08:28 -0500 Message-ID: <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:08:25 -0500 From: Josh Littlefield Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:08:28.0759 (UTC) FILETIME=[3821AE70:01C83772] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=8724; t=1196881710; x=1197745710; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=joshl@cisco.com; z=From:=20Josh=20Littlefield=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20; bh=vHPAvHBF8AlIMG4Q2YDrk4b/XHUHMiCkLJwWPVBjG0k=; b=g+0Gx4RMeIGgwPtWzieqEX1qlrT2JVntpYTBJHu5R3nAsAf7IFoJFpZWNeU6eA54FTX7t9bC 3Kn2GuELeClWlF6zxr46w3+dNGyBeeKE6Y3wfPhoWNG6hOt8cOXlHH7C; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=joshl@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0972914393==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0972914393== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020600040801070307070007" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020600040801070307070007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=0 is no-op. Because L=0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to prior L=1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix with L=0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is > red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because > the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not > ambiguous? > > > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. > > Hemant > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ===================================================================== Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 --------------020600040801070307070007 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying:

Default sending behavior is send to default router.
Reception of L=1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly)
Reception of L=0 is no-op.

Because L=0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to prior L=1, then prefix is still on-link.
If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=1, then retain default behavior.

It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router.  Only reception of L=1 can change that for any specific prefix.  A prefix with L=0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination.

Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote:
Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text

The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous?

 
Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a Prefix Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that
   addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to cancel
   a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the
   L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior (see
   Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no
   information is known about the on-link status of the address is to
   forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix
   Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not
   change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated as
   on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.
   Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the
   autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant 


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-- 
=====================================================================
Josh Littlefield                                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
joshl@cisco.com                             1414 Massachusetts Avenue
tel: 978-936-1379  fax: 978-936-2226       Boxborough, MA  01719-2205
--------------020600040801070307070007-- --===============0972914393== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0972914393==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:09:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzce-0003YY-9k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:09:28 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzcd-0003XM-9S for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:09:27 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzcc-0008Pf-Qa for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:09:27 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 14:09:25 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5J9Pkq002515; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:09:25 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5J9P0i021449; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:09:25 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:09:25 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:09:25 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3cSQHyqWz6EVXSYCvSKMKMVLKMwAAMZ6g References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Suresh Krishnan" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:09:25.0844 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A282940:01C83772] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1390; t=1196881766; x=1197745766; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Suresh=20Krishnan=22=20, =20; bh=wBI0RB7hq+TtG60f9X7c6MBVfgnp8FxymndWJIbeQlc=; b=Z4RZg1sZdvQY6XzYtDqN8RTQgsCbICyWmgzzCBrJ0gp7Z927dbXQ+6y6tZDo/XdLTZR7pA3U e724+kjnkvhPeUYrHJraHFj8a1NHuId7Waj6+Q7mDtxluMllxgI69CUl; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Suresh, At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM To: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Off-link and on-link Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How would it go about describing this? I see two ways a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses not on the /64 b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link flag)=3D0 I see b) as being more efficient than a) P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. Cheers Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From HarrywoodsRichardson@ottawaherald.com Wed Dec 05 14:14:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzh9-0006cd-WB; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:14:08 -0500 Received: from tony09-115-229.inter.net.il ([213.8.115.229] helo=winxp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzh9-0004UP-Gh; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:14:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host13643463.ottawaherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 7CO6ATLE25.123315.IUT.07L.6553710176494 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:13:59 -0200 Message-ID: <10c7c01c83773$01d0ffa0$3706000a@winxp> From: "Willie Ramirez" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_10C78_01C83773.01D0FFA0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:20:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzn0-0002et-0C; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmx-0002ZL-66 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmv-0000we-QB for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 14:20:05 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5JK4nN010498; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:20:04 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5JK3Bg013346; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:20:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:19:59 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:19:59 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3cjg07vf7UxVKSZu8obivgUjPFwAALphw References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Josh Littlefield (joshl)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:19:59.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[D414D180:01C83773] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=11666; t=1196882405; x=1197746405; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Josh=20Littlefield=20(joshl)=22=20; bh=QxjvTM8afe/Hr3Mp92Brm7KfaDAEuhzMZ1ciG35j3ms=; b=xmGtALC/jYS+PcYttgJElPijZ49uCY8t/uXLcS4vpCw+9xdY3sUeWFYW93q6oN25hZF/fqIe oyDyErreKuqT7SY08CJvHAzjpPh6HyknIzAAr2c2pX6YU0O0xNHGFgfC; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8d89ee9312a95de8ee48d1c94511f1bb Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1609459420==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1609459420== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Josh. That is the point of our drafts is to clarify that default behavior is off-link because that mode maps to sending data to the default router. The ND RFC is also loose by saying send data to the router when the RFC should say send all non-link-local traffic to the default router.=20 =20 In hind sight, it made sense for us to have blocked RFC 4861 in AUTH48 state when we were commenting on 2461bis-11 and 24628. =20 Hemant ________________________________ From: Josh Littlefield (joshl)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:08 AM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote:=20 The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? =09 Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set=20 indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be=20 considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option=20 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning=20 on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that=20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel=20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the=20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see=20 Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to=20 forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix=20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not=20 change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as=20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.=20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the=20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].=20 Hemant=20 =09 ________________________________ =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text
Thanks Josh. That is the point of our drafts is = to clarify=20 that default behavior is off-link because that mode maps to sending data = to the=20 default router. The ND RFC is also loose by saying send data to the = router when=20 the RFC should say send all non-link-local traffic to the default = router.=20
 
In hind sight, it made sense for us to have = blocked RFC=20 4861 in AUTH48 state when we were commenting on 2461bis-11 and=20 24628.
 
Hemant

From: Josh Littlefield (joshl) =
Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:08 AM
To: Hemant Singh=20 (shemant)
Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 = Mailing=20 List
Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is=20 ambigious text

It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this = paragraph is=20 saying:

Default sending behavior is send to default = router.
Reception=20 of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly)
Reception of = L=3D0 is=20 no-op.

Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix = on-link due to=20 prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link.
If one did not consider = the prefix=20 on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior.

It = might be=20 clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are = off-link,=20 and this means send to default router.  Only reception of L=3D1 can = change=20 that for any specific prefix.  A prefix with L=3D0 does not change = off-link,=20 or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix = entirely=20 from the RA, from the point of view of on-link = determination.

Hemant=20 Singh (shemant) wrote:=20

The summary from = this section=20 snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does = not mean=20 off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to = default=20 router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. = Why is=20 this paragraph not ambiguous?

=
Prefix Information options = that have the=20 "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of = addresses that=20 should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a = Prefix=20 Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no = information=20 concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be = interpreted to mean=20 that
  =20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to=20 cancel
  =20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with=20 the
  =20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior (see =
   = Section 5.2)=20 when sending a packet to an address for which no =
   = information is=20 known about the on-link status of the address is to =
   = forward the=20 packet to a default router; the = reception of a=20 Prefix
  =20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does=20 not
  =20 change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated=20 as
  =20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section=20 2.1.
  =20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have=20 the
  =20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant = 


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--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Josh Littlefield                                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
joshl@cisco.com                      =
       1414 Massachusetts Avenue
tel: 978-936-1379  fax: 978-936-2226       Boxborough, MA  01719-2205
------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151-- --===============1609459420== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1609459420==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:20:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmv-0002XY-8k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmt-0002Uh-SO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:03 -0500 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmt-00053r-7B for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:03 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw751.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.51]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB5JK0Ec020017; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:20:02 -0600 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:20:00 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED2@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3crM6xAmuOOyJQVu+qlb23iQ2LAAANv6Q References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: "Josh Littlefield" , "Hemant Singh \(shemant\)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:20:00.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[D490DF50:01C83773] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, My understanding of the document is the same as that of Josh, except = for this thing that was left out if L=3D1 and Lifetime=3D0 remove the prefix from the prefix list (switch = from talking directly to talking through the router) Cheers Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Josh Littlefield [mailto:joshl@cisco.com] Sent: Wed 5/12/2007 2:08 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text =20 It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is = saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is > red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because > the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not > ambiguous? > > =20 > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information = option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to = cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. > > Hemant > > = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:20:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzn0-0002et-0C; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmx-0002ZL-66 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmv-0000we-QB for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 14:20:05 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5JK4nN010498; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:20:04 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5JK3Bg013346; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:20:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:19:59 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:19:59 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3cjg07vf7UxVKSZu8obivgUjPFwAALphw References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Josh Littlefield (joshl)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:19:59.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[D414D180:01C83773] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=11666; t=1196882405; x=1197746405; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Josh=20Littlefield=20(joshl)=22=20; bh=QxjvTM8afe/Hr3Mp92Brm7KfaDAEuhzMZ1ciG35j3ms=; b=xmGtALC/jYS+PcYttgJElPijZ49uCY8t/uXLcS4vpCw+9xdY3sUeWFYW93q6oN25hZF/fqIe oyDyErreKuqT7SY08CJvHAzjpPh6HyknIzAAr2c2pX6YU0O0xNHGFgfC; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8d89ee9312a95de8ee48d1c94511f1bb Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1609459420==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1609459420== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Josh. That is the point of our drafts is to clarify that default behavior is off-link because that mode maps to sending data to the default router. The ND RFC is also loose by saying send data to the router when the RFC should say send all non-link-local traffic to the default router.=20 =20 In hind sight, it made sense for us to have blocked RFC 4861 in AUTH48 state when we were commenting on 2461bis-11 and 24628. =20 Hemant ________________________________ From: Josh Littlefield (joshl)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:08 AM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote:=20 The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? =09 Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set=20 indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be=20 considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option=20 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning=20 on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that=20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel=20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the=20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see=20 Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to=20 forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix=20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not=20 change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as=20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.=20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the=20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].=20 Hemant=20 =09 ________________________________ =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text
Thanks Josh. That is the point of our drafts is = to clarify=20 that default behavior is off-link because that mode maps to sending data = to the=20 default router. The ND RFC is also loose by saying send data to the = router when=20 the RFC should say send all non-link-local traffic to the default = router.=20
 
In hind sight, it made sense for us to have = blocked RFC=20 4861 in AUTH48 state when we were commenting on 2461bis-11 and=20 24628.
 
Hemant

From: Josh Littlefield (joshl) =
Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:08 AM
To: Hemant Singh=20 (shemant)
Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 = Mailing=20 List
Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is=20 ambigious text

It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this = paragraph is=20 saying:

Default sending behavior is send to default = router.
Reception=20 of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly)
Reception of = L=3D0 is=20 no-op.

Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix = on-link due to=20 prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link.
If one did not consider = the prefix=20 on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior.

It = might be=20 clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are = off-link,=20 and this means send to default router.  Only reception of L=3D1 can = change=20 that for any specific prefix.  A prefix with L=3D0 does not change = off-link,=20 or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix = entirely=20 from the RA, from the point of view of on-link = determination.

Hemant=20 Singh (shemant) wrote:=20

The summary from = this section=20 snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does = not mean=20 off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to = default=20 router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. = Why is=20 this paragraph not ambiguous?

=
Prefix Information options = that have the=20 "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of = addresses that=20 should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a = Prefix=20 Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no = information=20 concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be = interpreted to mean=20 that
  =20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to=20 cancel
  =20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with=20 the
  =20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior (see =
   = Section 5.2)=20 when sending a packet to an address for which no =
   = information is=20 known about the on-link status of the address is to =
   = forward the=20 packet to a default router; the = reception of a=20 Prefix
  =20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does=20 not
  =20 change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated=20 as
  =20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section=20 2.1.
  =20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have=20 the
  =20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant = 


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Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.or=
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--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Josh Littlefield                                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
joshl@cisco.com                      =
       1414 Massachusetts Avenue
tel: 978-936-1379  fax: 978-936-2226       Boxborough, MA  01719-2205
------_=_NextPart_001_01C83773.D3E2F151-- --===============1609459420== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1609459420==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:20:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmv-0002XY-8k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmt-0002Uh-SO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:03 -0500 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzmt-00053r-7B for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:03 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw751.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.51]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB5JK0Ec020017; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:20:02 -0600 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:20:00 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED2@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3crM6xAmuOOyJQVu+qlb23iQ2LAAANv6Q References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: "Josh Littlefield" , "Hemant Singh \(shemant\)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:20:00.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[D490DF50:01C83773] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, My understanding of the document is the same as that of Josh, except = for this thing that was left out if L=3D1 and Lifetime=3D0 remove the prefix from the prefix list (switch = from talking directly to talking through the router) Cheers Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Josh Littlefield [mailto:joshl@cisco.com] Sent: Wed 5/12/2007 2:08 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text =20 It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is = saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is > red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because > the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not > ambiguous? > > =20 > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information = option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to = cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. > > Hemant > > = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:24:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzqs-0008Lz-JH; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:24:10 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzqr-0008EQ-90 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([192.100.122.230] helo=mgw-mx03.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izzqp-0001LD-NA for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB5JNV5P005274; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:24:05 +0200 Received: from daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.112]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:23:32 +0200 Received: from daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) by daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:23:15 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:23:07 -0600 Message-ID: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD22C70@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated thread-index: Acg3S87WXvnCw0oTTq2FCXzOBUB0eQAKFCfw References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:23:15.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[48EF8590:01C83774] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: Bob.Hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Thomas, Thanks for your comments. Speaking as an individual (not document author) this is what I think is the right way forward, but I wanted to make sure that this would be useful for the WG. John=20 >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Thomas Narten [mailto:narten@us.ibm.com]=20 >Sent: 05 December, 2007 06:33 >To: Loughney John (Nokia-NRC/PaloAlto) >Cc: brian@innovationslab.net; ipv6@ietf.org; Hinden Bob=20 >(Nokia-ES/MtView) >Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN=20 >Agenda updated > >> 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node=20 >Requirements=20 >> document >> was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node=20 >> Requirements doc? > >Yes. The published RFC was already "old" by the time it gotten=20 >published because it had been on hold for reference=20 >dependencies for so long.... > >The USG (via NIST and DoD) have IPv6 profiles that are heavily=20 >based on the Node Requirements RFC. I think there are places=20 >where we should clarify existing language, based on the=20 >experience people have had in using RFC 4294. > >> 2) If there is interest, what should be update look like: >> a) Simple update, covering just the updates in the base RFCs. > >Let's keep things small and focused, please. Just update the=20 >Node Requirements RFC. Note: we can always update it again later! > >To be useful, the published RFC needs to be up-to-date. I'd=20 >aim for getting the revisions done by summer of next year=20 >(i.e., around summer meeting time). > >Thomas > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:28:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzuT-0004UE-Fn; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:27:53 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzuR-0004Qx-AD for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:27:51 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzuQ-0005mg-Fj for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:27:51 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 11:28:03 -0800 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5JRnfk025228; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:27:49 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5JRNgu013739; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:27:49 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:27:43 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:27:42 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED2@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3crM6xAmuOOyJQVu+qlb23iQ2LAAANv6QAAAd4jA= References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED2@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Suresh Krishnan" , "Josh Littlefield (joshl)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:27:43.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[E85CA9A0:01C83774] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4465; t=1196882870; x=1197746870; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20; bh=x5LD6+7ehAV+t1wmDUwwOwd9F+v3O9/QPXxWSac8QeY=; b=giI9C3whOidOxiUTWUB/iOVNwJp4CxQE/fmZQeGJqtIE0koz0d5PxwVN+Jg0Z4Anei41iWMX /oBfw37LoihTaFwiU+TMaFAynCpiXuagBnTrfMYwbEwlxBGS21N2rDXmrMEYLvYk4C372qoVo9 tczh0YLCWUm4XDc6MDU5NxYwM=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Suresh, Your case below is described in section 2.2.1 of our draft.=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-on-link-and-off-link-d etermination-00.txt No, we have loose text in ND RFC and not a bug in a host stack. We are after changing loose text as is evident from our examples. That is why, please do read the updates draft and compare the clear text in this draft vs. the text being replaced in ND RFC. Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:18 AM To: Josh Littlefield (joshl); Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Hi, My understanding of the document is the same as that of Josh, except for this thing that was left out if L=3D1 and Lifetime=3D0 remove the prefix from the prefix list (switch from talking directly to talking through the router) Cheers Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Josh Littlefield [mailto:joshl@cisco.com] Sent: Wed 5/12/2007 2:08 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text =20 It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) = Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is=20 > red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because=20 > the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not=20 > ambiguous? > > =20 > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. > > Hemant > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > =20 -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:35:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J001k-0006k8-6a; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:35:24 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J001i-0006jj-AS for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:35:22 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([192.100.122.233] helo=mgw-mx06.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J001h-0006VM-Nd for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:35:22 -0500 Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-mx06.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB5JZE6q032058; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:35:19 +0200 Received: from daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.111]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:35:16 +0200 Received: from daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) by daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:34:38 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:34:34 -0600 Message-ID: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD22C93@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED0@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Getting rid of MAYs in RFC4294 thread-index: Acg3Y7hlq1KvbQ+kTOq4+dLho0imkQAEKpIA References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED0@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 19:34:38.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFDE0570:01C83775] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Cc: Subject: RE: Getting rid of MAYs in RFC4294 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Suresh, Check that my comments are refering to the right text, the formatting is off on your mail, so I had a hard time parsing some of your comments. For many of the MAYs, my opinion is that if we don't say anything about it,=20 people will ask if these features are required or not. I think this should only be covering IPv6 related technology, and not other things (like SIP, HTTP, etc.) >Section 4.1 "the forwarding functionality MAY be supported."=20 >while there is a router section at the end where we can make=20 >this a MUST=20 I think we would need to get the text ray.=20 > MAY for Jumbograms=20 See above. > MAY for stateful DHCP - switch=20 >to MUST use DHCP if stateful address configuration is desired=20 Do OS vendors know if statefull address config is desired or not? Thomas a while ago suggested putting in some clarifying text to=20 cover why such Features might be useful to include. >Remove IPv6 nodes MAY support IPv4 - This is so obvious and=20 >hence does not belong. As opposed to what? "IPv6 nodes MUST=20 >NOT support IPv4?" Actually, I had some comments off-line comments asking me (from non IETFers) if it was allowed to support IPv4 on an IPv6 compliant device. I think it is fine to be a bit more explicit on this, especially because I have found this document to be read by a lot of people who are not directly involved in the IETF. >MAY for mobility mn functionality and HA functionality -=20 >switch to MUST if these functionalities are desired=20 What do you mean by this? I think saying it is MUST if they are desired is circular logic, not providing=20 > Remove=20 >network management from the list if MAYs. This adds nothing There was some discussion about this during initial work, what does the working group think of this? >I also feel strongly that the algorithm requirements for IPSec=20 >(MAY for some of them) don't necessarily belong here I believe much of this came from the security area, so I think we need to check with this. John -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:40:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J006p-0003IJ-OI; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:40:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J006p-0003Di-00 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:40:39 -0500 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J006o-0002ta-IY for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:40:38 -0500 Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::16:21b:63ff:fe02:3c13] ([IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:21b:63ff:fe02:3c13]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id lB5JdD9u048326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:39:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) Message-Id: From: Iljitsch van Beijnum To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:39:19 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=3.5 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Subject: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org ULA is LOCAL. It has nothing to do with PI. People need address space to number the links between their SQL and web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space used on the internet. If it's routed at some point, this means we're all getting enough money to change our minds on the merits of routing unroutable space so by definition, we'll be happy with that. And again: keep the RIRs out of this, this has nothing to do with their current business. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:43:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J009e-0002OO-3W; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:43:34 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J009d-0002OB-5M for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:43:33 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J009c-0007Jj-Hm for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:43:33 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5JhMgG023266; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:22 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id lB5JhLXf023263; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:21 +0200 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:21 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: john.loughney@nokia.com In-Reply-To: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> Message-ID: References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/5002/Wed Dec 5 02:58:59 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00, L_SPAM_COM_URL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: Bob.Hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, john.loughney@nokia.com wrote: > 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node Requirements > document > was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node > Requirements doc? Which updates are we thinking about here? Documents which have Obsoleted (in the RFC editor's registry) old ones? The implementors (or the customers that write RFPs for them) are smart enough to figure this out themselves. So, why would updating the RFC be useful, given that the running code of the IETF is to let the documents gather enough dust.. and then let them rot because they've become too dusty to be revived. Don't we have better things to spend our cycles, i.e., things that are actually broken (e.g., RFC3484 issues) instead of just updating obsoleted RFC numbers? Unless there is clear justification why just updating a couple of RFC numbers would be beneficial, we should probably either: a) forget about the update or b) consider a more throrough process including obtaining IETF Consensus on what the IPv6 node requirements really are (make it BCP or standards track). I think b) is what USG is using this document for even though it currently doesn't have any IETF consensus behind it (it's just an informative list of some RFCs somewhat related to IPv6). Some might say the current state is somewhat problematical and making a superficial update without fixing the root problems could make the matter even worse. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From EdwinsacralWells@hotelpresident.cz Wed Dec 05 14:47:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00D4-000760-UZ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:47:06 -0500 Received: from client-81-109-217-51.leed.adsl.virgin.net ([81.109.217.51] helo=kate.mshome.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00D4-0007gG-DJ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:47:06 -0500 Received: from idle by hotelpresident.cz with SMTP id HzPnigDRIs for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:10:06 +0000 From: "Herbert Murray" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00j2-0006z1-JH; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:20:08 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00j0-0006yY-Ff for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:20:06 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00iz-0002jA-LR for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:20:06 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.56.36]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5KK3QF019971; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:20:03 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5KJwKJ675101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:19:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475707EB.7040608@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:19:55 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red > where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the > text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not > ambiguous? For security reasons I don't do anything fancy in my mail reader, hence I don't see the colors your refer to. Anyhow, what it is saying is that the L=0 is a no-op. Elsewhere in the document it explains how the prefix list is maintained and used, which basically means that all the prefixes with L=1 are considered (within their lifetime). The reason things are done this was is that there might be a reason to send a prefix option with some bit other than L set, and that can't interfere with the prefix list. A concrete example would be a router sending a prefix information option with only R set (see RFC 3775) and the fact that L=0 in such an option shouldn't delete anything from the prefix list maintained by the host. Erik > > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. > > Hemant > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:23:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00ma-0005Tb-1k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:23:48 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00mY-0005Ja-Ts for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:23:46 -0500 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.179]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00mY-00035r-Eq for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:23:46 -0500 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so10455038wah for ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:23:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=X8Mxq7s7KH+rbAmO3QBekhuRASU5tqcczevG6xkka58=; b=Jx0lWxRHInh+detFKAtfkzhIJRRmzeoEXq/J8QagwheZgul5gY2Gb0LWmoPKNZRtEUKG8iMyQWTStU1Hvbuxx3qWm0hTzB2E4D97n9NIiN2EvVXnL5Cpg63SiWXOLx5ZJBPhI5vEAy+pJq4nTpHQR4xbsxqekxgzMqwBm3rT/Ho= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=axe0k+eKUjkpK/fE4JWpCV9nJcrbDV6rtmuUkyxTOx58EoGmCfQliHJ2PV/+fBeVckZ5Vnu5ovzHBhtKB5wKFX7C8YgfIoFv5xbm7pp0EYVmnaugDe5q4MZHMLZLQywCj0kS/Us0VW4KaJTngGxgCUBucrr5pIOv3ROQ8Wypg20= Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr67667waf.1196886225576; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.204.14 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:23:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <75cb24520712051223v6d5fae74h63eb3d387baa775c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:23:45 -0500 From: "Christopher Morrow" To: "Iljitsch van Beijnum" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Dec 5, 2007 2:39 PM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > ULA is LOCAL. > > It has nothing to do with PI. > sort of correct... I believe the fear here is that if you are in a world of provider-assigned ip space without any simple hope for renumbering you will look for ULA-x as a 'no renumbering' solution and try to find some form of NAT initially that will make this all work for you with minimal work. If NAT is no longer avaialble and you have a /48 in ULA-x space that is 'yours' why can't you ask your provider to route that for you? and all of his peers/customers to do the same? This could lead to a very large pool/use of ULA-x in 'public' places in a short period of time. I'm not sure that the Internet today is ready to accommodate that sort of route growth. (this goes somewhat to the point below as well) > People need address space to number the links between their SQL and > web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space used on > the internet. > this is also sort of correct. I think that ULA and the like come from the mentality that in the ipv4 world people numbered lots of 'internal' things out of 1918 space, following that line of logic people will want to use 'private' space on internal networks in the ipv6 world as well. They'll also want to, in most cases, have that space NAT'd to the real world... perhaps not NAT, perhaps some other equivalent technology, but still a 'private' address in the end. When I last lobbied for a ULA-x type of option it was for this very sort of thing, 'internal networks' that might later be connected to other 'internal networks' and thus I thought that ULA-C might make the most sense. I think that this all skips over a very real issue which is 'how does your host/router/blah handle having more than one address and how does it decide which to use when?' coupled with that is the 'do users want to manage more than one address going forward and all of the associated foo with that? (dhcp/dns/service-binding/firewalls/acls/policy-foo/etc)' I think that somewhere we ought to find the requirement for ULA before creating something like this. Additionally, without a reasonable solution for how enterprises deal with their current numbering issues (multihoming, internal address+NAT) the ULA-x discussion is going to be mostly headless and directionless... -Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From BrettwavyHowell@igougo.com Wed Dec 05 15:25:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00oI-0004dF-3Z; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:25:35 -0500 Received: from cm-83-97-213-173.telecable.es ([83.97.213.173] helo=desktop) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00oH-0003NH-7r; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:25:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host46622943.igougo.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id lB0Xpdfx33.185736.jKV.Gkt.9511452943435 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:25:11 -0100 Message-ID: <5344401c8377c$fa145cd0$add56153@desktop> From: "Reginald Fields" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_53440_01C8377C.FA145CD0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:28:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00qm-0008ID-Mj; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00qk-0008HY-Fj for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:06 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00qj-0007ny-V9 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:06 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.17.57]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5KS3nr016731; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:28:04 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5KRwCu675467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:28:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475709CE.1010505@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:27:58 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Suresh Krishnan References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How would it go about describing this? I see two ways > > a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all addresses not on the /64 Alternatively you could advertize a set of /47 through /64 prefixes as on-link. I think in this case you'd end up with 15 or so prefixes being advertized. > b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link flag)=0 > > I see b) as being more efficient than a) I think b) is a lot more complex to understand, because one would have to understand who wins when one RA says L=1 and onther says Q=1 and their is partial of complete overlap between the prefixes in question. Also, depending on that preference issues, a sane host implementation might need to either have a positive (on-link) or negative (off-link) list of prefixes, which means the host would have to do the expansion. One can illustrate this complexity by modifying your example to have 3 sub-prefixes where 2001:dead:beef::/48 is on-link, except for 2001:dead:beef:ab00::/56 which is off-link, except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 which is on-link > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. I agree. And my example might be event more unlikely, but possible. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:29:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00rb-00029D-SO; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00ra-00022m-AH for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:58 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00rZ-0007tu-QO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:28:58 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.108.31]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5KStWj021805; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:28:55 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5KSgSB675490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:28:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:28:37 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Suresh, > > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below cannot > be even supported on aggregation routers. Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? Erik > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > To: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Off-link and on-link > > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's > say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 is > on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How would > it go about describing this? I see two ways > > a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all addresses not > on the /64 > b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > flag)=0 > > I see b) as being more efficient than a) > > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. > > Cheers > Suresh > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:41:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J013n-0003iG-G5; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:41:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J013m-0003i4-0z for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:41:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J013l-0000fP-Dr for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:41:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 15:41:31 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5KfXB8004949; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:41:33 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5KfI0w003838; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:41:28 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:41:24 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:41:23 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <475707EB.7040608@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3fDqD69ZGMK/QQ16r8T5AfVgVZwAAeMIg References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475707EB.7040608@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 20:41:24.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[33B05EB0:01C8377F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4031; t=1196887293; x=1197751293; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=mRQ4LJU30ABbFA+OPfbmNY2KLp+kNICHbQ0ziTbGCLI=; b=qdn3Ke46tz32Su1uQx/lQmt1WpL7g2RzzuHaAChNYf9HnQL7m3gy5kSApsDE/2vtLz6OBcv1 aHhVqDC9Of9P7eWu9SOBi4g38lStfklZagV3QpxRhvKsmMV7AWF5eeym; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Erik, I appreciate the quick reply. OK, here is an explanation with non-colored text. The text snipped below for 6.3.4 is as follows to please note first the text in double quotes: [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and "MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link."] After the above text in the para the para says the following a little later: [The default behavior (see Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to forward the packet to a default router;] I am saying the para immediately above contradicts the text in quotes because the quoted text says off link MUST NOT be interpreted but then later the same section says "send data to default router". I interpret "sending data to default router" as signaling off-link behavior. As for the R bit, what if the router has implemented ONLY RFC 4861. I don't want to bring RFC 4775 into the discussion just yet. Thanks. Hemant =20 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:20 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying > no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is=20 > red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because=20 > the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not=20 > ambiguous? For security reasons I don't do anything fancy in my mail reader, hence I don't see the colors your refer to. Anyhow, what it is saying is that the L=3D0 is a no-op. Elsewhere in the document it explains how the prefix list is maintained and used, which basically means that all the prefixes with L=3D1 are considered (within their lifetime). The reason things are done this was is that there might be a reason to send a prefix option with some bit other than L set, and that can't interfere with the prefix list. A concrete example would be a router sending a prefix information option with only R set (see RFC 3775) and the fact that L=3D0 in such an option shouldn't delete anything from the prefix list maintained by the host. Erik > =20 > Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set > indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be > considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel > a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the > L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see > Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix > Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not > change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as > on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1. > Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the > autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]. >=20 > Hemant >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:44:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J016D-00054o-Qg; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:44:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J016C-00053q-9g for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:44:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J016B-0000vD-KD for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:44:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 15:44:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5Ki3Hl006400; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:44:03 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5KhnBu021691; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:44:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.15]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:43:57 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:44:01 -0500 Message-ID: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB2105B2F63D@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg2q8cqgn0gS97yTfWwTPslhsbvdwAAC9oLADC+CJAABAOcwA== From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" , "Suresh Krishnan" , , "IETF IPv6 Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 20:43:57.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[8ECAD190:01C8377F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=8404; t=1196887443; x=1197751443; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=volz@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Bernie=20Volz=20(volz)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3.4=20text=20tha t=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20, =0A=20=20=2 0=20=20=20=20=20=22Suresh=20Krishnan=22=20, = 0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20, =20=22IETF=20IPv6=20Maili ng=20List=22=20; bh=kFPMZtJR7OHp5Vy2zjtaroVxj5tKM7eJXFtlOpVKmVE=; b=Jcd8pAE40Jm6HzH/CZGNtDQa6rWwwPsbSwjFOkmEYADpBZaYPIl254KiBk86h6GmjwHy/9Ws NGZd5s1uBE+ELOyKuTJnvj9zuwxzqgZLnJxjYPLD3uRZtdrLugpYJ54x; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=volz@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 31b28e25e9d13a22020d8b7aedc9832c Cc: Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0836634915==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0836634915== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8377F.8E74A1E4" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8377F.8E74A1E4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hemant: =20 The on-link/off-link indication is for *ALL* of the addresses in the prefix. That is what the "default behavior" is in reference to. =20 If the node has other information (such as from an ICMPv6 Redirect), it would then NOT use the default behavior. =20 There is a MAJOR difference between saying that all destinations on a prefix are OFF-LINK vs NOT ON-LINK. Not on-link means you don't know and ABSENT ANY OTHER INFORMATION (ie, the default behavior) you send the traffic to the default router.=20 =20 - Bernie ________________________________ From: Hemant Singh (shemant)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:50 PM To: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set=20 indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be=20 considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option=20 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning=20 on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that=20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the=20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see=20 Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no=20 information is known about the on-link status of the address is to=20 forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix=20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not=20 change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as=20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.=20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the=20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].=20 Hemant=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8377F.8E74A1E4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text
Hemant:
 
The on-link/off-link indication is for = *ALL* of the=20 addresses in the prefix. That is what the "default behavior" is in = reference=20 to.
 
If the node has other information (such as from = an ICMPv6=20 Redirect), it would then NOT use the default = behavior.
 
There is a MAJOR difference between saying that = all=20 destinations on a prefix are OFF-LINK vs NOT ON-LINK. Not on-link means = you=20 don't know and ABSENT ANY OTHER INFORMATION (ie, the default behavior) = you send=20 the traffic to the default router.
 
- Bernie

From: Hemant Singh (shemant) =
Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:50 PM
To: Suresh Krishnan;=20 bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List
Subject: Here is = the=20 reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text

The summary from this = section=20 snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not = mean=20 off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to = default=20 router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why = is this=20 paragraph not ambiguous?

=
Prefix Information options that = have the=20 "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses = that=20 should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a = Prefix=20 Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no = information=20 concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted = to mean=20 that
  =20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to=20 cancel
   a=20 previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with = the=20
   L-bit = set and the=20 Lifetime set to zero.  The=20 default behavior (see
   Section 5.2) when sending a packet = to an=20 address for which no
   information is known about the = on-link status=20 of the address is to
   forward the packet to a default=20 router; the reception of a = Prefix=20
   = Information option=20 with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not
   change this = behavior.  The=20 reasons for an address being treated as
   on-link is specified in the = definition of=20 "on-link" in Section 2.1.
   Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would = normally=20 have the
  =20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8377F.8E74A1E4-- --===============0836634915== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0836634915==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:48:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01A1-0006zb-Rd; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:48:01 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01A0-0006zN-Dz for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:48:00 -0500 Received: from mistral.mail.adnap.net.au ([203.6.132.90]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J019y-0001HN-Em for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:48:00 -0500 Received: from 219-90-243-19.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.243.19] helo=mail.nosense.org) by mistral.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J01Ak-000JGZ-0u; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:18:46 +1030 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 290D75F941; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:17:52 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:17:51 +1030 From: Mark Smith To: Iljitsch van Beijnum Message-Id: <20071206071751.c6efedd6.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:39:19 -0800 Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > ULA is LOCAL. > > It has nothing to do with PI. > > People need address space to number the links between their SQL and > web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space used on > the internet. > It also seems to me that a common assumption in this debate, by people who consider IPv6 to just be IPv4 with bigger addresses, is that if you have ULA addressing on a interface, you can't have global addresses as well. IOW, they're either not aware or forgetting that IPv6 is fully designed to properly support multiple prefixes on an interface, rather than it being somewhat of a hack that works under IPv4, but not with things like DHCPv4. I think that then warps their perspective on whether ULAs might become PI (should an appropriate routing technology come along), or whether NAT in IPv6 is necessary for global Internet access if you use ULAs. > If it's routed at some point, this means we're all getting enough > money to change our minds on the merits of routing unroutable space so > by definition, we'll be happy with that. > > And again: keep the RIRs out of this, this has nothing to do with > their current business. > Regards, Mark. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:53:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01FM-0001NH-W4; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:53:32 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01FL-0001Lj-Ac for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:53:31 -0500 Received: from smtp1.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.137]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01FK-0006LX-Ts for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:53:31 -0500 Received: from E03MVC4-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.116]) by smtp1.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:53:37 +0000 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:56:47 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Stupid ULA discussion Thread-Index: Acg3dsIaslAkWgY6Q5iSaIUI8K+ABgACYrJQ References: From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 20:53:37.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8527A00:01C83780] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > ULA is LOCAL. >=20 > It has nothing to do with PI. >=20 > People need address space to number the links between their=20 > SQL and web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address=20 > space used on the internet. Agreed! > If it's routed at some point, this means we're all getting=20 > enough money to change our minds on the merits of routing=20 > unroutable space so by definition, we'll be happy with that. In other words, any arguments that say "but people will take that address block and use it on the public Internet" apply equally to people who use a 3FFE block or just pick some random address block that is not in use. The only thing that stops people from doing this is ISPs policing the BGP routes that they hear which will also stop ULA use.=20 In a way, people are right when they have a gut feel that ULA-C=20 addresses are just like PI addresses. But they forget that they are also like any other unicast IPv6 address. All addresses work everywhere on the Internet, except where they are filtered/policed and ULA-C addresses will be filtered just like any other kind of address which is technically usable, but defined by policy as unusable. > And again: keep the RIRs out of this, this has nothing to do=20 > with their current business. Really, this is none of our business. When push comes to shove, the IANA is responsible for registering numbers and if they want to delegate the job to RIRs, then they will.=20 --Michael Dillon -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:54:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01GS-0005Qg-E3; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:54:40 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01GQ-0005QS-G6 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:54:38 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01GQ-0001vk-0g for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:54:38 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 15:54:37 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5Ksb9k010212; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:54:37 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5KsWBa025617; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:54:32 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:54:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:54:20 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3fXiGn+wDsA8uTWiKkzepTlwAZAAAeGEg References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 20:54:20.0894 (UTC) FILETIME=[024C8FE0:01C83781] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3313; t=1196888077; x=1197752077; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=17MczH9dGKFQIHN56e/4rKhj+SuRiSuxcTv/xxQHjjA=; b=h6fqJEYXns1R41615MrnCuMQSksa4p9zODV6Fmw/tK/UpRsb2rrDiQw0qNf2q9keI3le7Ir2 3pelnVJ7/tIhrT5wMFzn7e2xYBSPMYB1vNNxUK/GrRt9yCXZpMsy1iko; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an RFC does not exist - at least describing total details of an aggregation router - like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The closest I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as multi-link router. A cable aggregation router is described in a cable docsis standard. Look at the last standard by searching for this file. CM-SP-SECv3.0-I05-070803.pdf. It will take a person new to cable a long time to understand such a router behavior. I was here to explain that behavior in the slides. Anyhow, it's not rocket science to figure out basic behavior of a aggregation router. I presented my slides that said an aggregation router has subscriber hosts as always off-link to each other due to physical connectivity of deployment. Well, if hosts are always off-link, then the aggregation router is lying if the router sends any Redirects to signal any prefix as on-link to a host. That is why such a deployment for both IPv4 or IPv6 does not send Redirect.=20 Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to configure this aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Suresh, >=20 > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new=20 > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note,=20 > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below=20 > cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? Erik >=20 > Hemant >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > To: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Off-link and on-link >=20 > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is=20 > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the=20 > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's > say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48=20 > is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How=20 > would it go about describing this? I see two ways >=20 > a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses = not > on the /64 > b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link=20 > flag)=3D0 >=20 > I see b) as being more efficient than a) >=20 > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >=20 > Cheers > Suresh >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From MorrislinusShelton@newsweek.com Wed Dec 05 15:58:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01KR-0005NI-Rr; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:58:47 -0500 Received: from [190.41.208.14] (helo=pc49) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01KR-0006oj-Gl; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:58:47 -0500 Received: from canopy by newsweek.com with SMTP id Nwnazzyyu0 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:58:29 +0500 From: "Ian Graves" To: Subject: Visit and start seeing the dollars coming. 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If you're in the US or anywhere else, join your new casino paradise. http://pritanari.cn/ From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:05:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01Qz-0001PJ-S9; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:05:33 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01Qy-0001P4-BS for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:05:32 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01Qx-0002rq-Ky for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:05:32 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 16:05:29 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5L5V8k018503; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:05:31 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5L5U0s014092; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:05:31 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:05:17 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:05:17 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3fXiGn+wDsA8uTWiKkzepTlwAZAABGDZQ References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 21:05:17.0690 (UTC) FILETIME=[89C7ADA0:01C83782] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2764; t=1196888731; x=1197752731; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=YsW7WzHMRXtOQXpx0gBxjpHL3yxhE6rdIG1Ru7XNI8k=; b=pFwoYiogC+/HDNdPg4oLUei/fsKL9cP0qCJ5Xbj1AOCF1xici1R0akdSmU0xD4gla5w6Ek4H xiyKUBUr42ers1xhocGggpyZBrMIKrEI6uRQ5B+PupaIP3ApnG3+U+qs; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Erik, As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router. The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link.=20 Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Suresh, >=20 > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new=20 > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note,=20 > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below=20 > cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? Erik >=20 > Hemant >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > To: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Off-link and on-link >=20 > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is=20 > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the=20 > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's > say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48=20 > is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How=20 > would it go about describing this? I see two ways >=20 > a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses = not > on the /64 > b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link=20 > flag)=3D0 >=20 > I see b) as being more efficient than a) >=20 > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >=20 > Cheers > Suresh >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:23:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01i6-0003iG-P7; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:23:14 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01i5-0003he-9H for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:23:13 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01i3-0000jH-Ii for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:23:12 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-ae724bb000001e2e-20-475716bac925 Received: from PC20005 (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 6588F4DC008; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:23:05 -0700 (MST) From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Suresh Krishnan'" , Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:22:46 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3cSQHyqWz6EVXSYCvSKMKMVLKMwAHB/kA X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org You've answered the question :) So what's the problem? As you said, this is very unlikely but there is a solution for it below. Hesham > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:01 AM > To: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Off-link and on-link > > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link > flag is necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a > scenario where the existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 > does not work very well. Let's say a router wants to signal > to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 is on-link except > for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How would it > go about describing this? I see two ways > > a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all > addresses not on the /64 > b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new > off-link flag)=0 > > I see b) as being more efficient than a) > > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. > > Cheers > Suresh > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:27:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01m0-0006CV-Jz; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:27:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01ly-0006CB-Gh for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:27:14 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01lx-0001BR-Pg for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:27:14 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 13:27:13 -0800 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5LRDx0001618; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:27:13 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5LR41j017578; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:27:13 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:27:07 -0800 Received: from dhcp-10cc.ietf70.org ([10.21.115.174]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:27:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ralph Droms To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:27:04 -0500 References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 21:27:07.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[966E2CC0:01C83785] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4006; t=1196890033; x=1197754033; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20; bh=KOMZw9dLABoIQ0wA8thTcpUoZKtHFzcrD5cQXcp0FwE=; b=DzdzvQZum/HiWXin+XJxUbro/1i4aXDkvXaaxDdXR92ZBlP/J0ZubYYzHlxOC0Xgi3/q4Mso Q3xN4gCcBXrMv84DX+bz3Ay1zh2F3esU+vtHqbWKaVdZ31WPtmsYTYEc; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it seems the host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation carried over IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix information to a host as a side effect of address assignment to interfaces. In IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for announcing prefix information, so no prefix state should be inferred from address assignment. In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in RFC 4861, as the host has no information about on-link status of a prefix if there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should send any outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the host has not received a PIO to the default router. - Ralph On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Erik, > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router. > The > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. > > I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >> Suresh, >> >> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new >> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, >> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below >> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > Erik > >> >> Hemant >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM >> To: ipv6@ietf.org >> Subject: Off-link and on-link >> >> Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, >> I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is >> necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. >> Let's > >> say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 >> is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How >> would it go about describing this? I see two ways >> >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all addresses >> not > >> on the /64 >> b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link >> flag)=0 >> >> I see b) as being more efficient than a) >> >> P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >> >> Cheers >> Suresh >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:28:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01ms-0006yU-Fe; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:28:10 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01mr-0006yH-Bi for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:28:09 -0500 Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01mq-0001GM-Re for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:28:09 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.228.50]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5LS2I5004198; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:28:02 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5LRtlL704958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475717D6.2070107@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:27:50 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475707EB.7040608@sun.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Erik, > > I appreciate the quick reply. OK, here is an explanation with > non-colored text. The text snipped below for 6.3.4 is as follows to > please note first the text in double quotes: > > [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and "MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link."] So far we are talking about the semantics of a single prefix information option. > After the above text in the para the para says the following a little > later: > > [The default behavior (see Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an > address for which no > information is known about the on-link status of the address is to > forward the packet to a default router;] And this talks about a particular destination address, looking at all of the prefix list. Thus you could rephrase the above sentence as When sending a packet to a destination and there is no matching prefix list entry, and no matching redirect entry, the packet is sent to a default router. > I am saying the para immediately above contradicts the text in quotes > because the quoted text says off link MUST NOT be interpreted but then > later the same section says "send data to default router". I interpret > "sending data to default router" as signaling off-link behavior. They are not in conflict, since the first is about a particular prefix information option, and the second is about the system as a whole. > As for the R bit, what if the router has implemented ONLY RFC 4861. I > don't want to bring RFC 4775 into the discussion just yet. I was merely trying to explain the motivation for L=0 being a no-op. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:32:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rF-0001oz-IG; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:41 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rE-0001mX-9U for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:40 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rC-0001it-JK for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:39 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-adf23bb000001e2e-64-475718f354db Received: from PC20005 (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id B359C4DC008; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:32:33 -0700 (MST) From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Ralph Droms'" , "'Hemant Singh \(shemant\)'" Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:32:16 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3hbZgL4VtfoeyQMuqk0eaN+9iIgACL5ww X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 Cc: 'Erik Nordmark' , 'IPV6 List Mailing' , 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it > seems the > host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address > assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation > carried over > IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix > information > to a host as a side effect of address assignment to interfaces. In > IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for announcing prefix > information, so no prefix state should be inferred from address > assignment. => Exactly. This makes sense, and it's good to highlight that to implementations, I just don't think this behaviour is a result of correct reading of the spec. > > In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in > RFC 4861, > as the host has no information about on-link status of a prefix if > there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should > send any > outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the host has > not received a PIO to the default router. => Agreed. That's the default behaviour. Hesham > > - Ralph > > > On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > > Erik, > > > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation router. > > The > > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT signaling > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic > forwarding. > > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > Information > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to > describe on-link. > > > > I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. > > > > Hemant > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > >> Suresh, > >> > >> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. > Without a new > >> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, > >> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > >> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > > > Erik > > > >> > >> Hemant > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > >> To: ipv6@ietf.org > >> Subject: Off-link and on-link > >> > >> Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > >> I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is > >> necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a > scenario where the > >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. > >> Let's > > > >> say a router wants to signal to the clients that > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > >> is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is > off-link. How > >> would it go about describing this? I see two ways > >> > >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all > addresses > >> not > > > >> on the /64 > >> b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > >> flag)=0 > >> > >> I see b) as being more efficient than a) > >> > >> P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Suresh > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:32:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rO-00020Q-9C; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rL-000202-HP for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:47 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01rL-0005Xe-8n for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:47 -0500 Received: from briand-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.90] helo=dhcp-14d9.ietf70.org) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1J01rK-00017Y-Qy; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:46 -0500 Message-ID: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:32:43 -0800 From: Brian Dickson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: briand@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > ULA is LOCAL. > > It has nothing to do with PI. > > People need address space to number the links between their SQL and > web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space used on > the internet. ULA is also UNIQUE. (Well, for half of ULA, "probably unique"). It would be a service, rather than a disservice, to the community of "network admins" (LAN admins), to educate them on the value of uniqueness. And to point out the existence of a suitable replacement for IPv4's 10.0.0.0/8 et al, if they want a non-registered, non-unique, truly non-routable address space that maps well to their current RFC 1918 space. And that would be the IPv4-mapped IPv6 address space for RFC 1918. I.e. ::ffff:10.0.0.0, ::ffff:172.16.0.0 and ::ffff:192.168.0.0 (as /104, /108, and /112 respectively.) And yes, I know it's ugly and rude. But it makes it easy for the end admin to manage the dual-stack universe between their SQL and web servers. 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------=_NextPart_000_21F3F_01C83787.03F04610-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:39:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01xb-0004X3-3k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:39:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01xZ-0004Wk-HL for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:39:13 -0500 Received: from ccerelbas04.cce.hp.com ([161.114.21.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01xZ-00069E-0e for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:39:13 -0500 Received: from G3W0631.americas.hpqcorp.net (g3w0631.americas.hpqcorp.net [16.233.59.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ccerelbas04.cce.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946C53572D; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:39:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from G5W0323.americas.hpqcorp.net (16.228.8.68) by G3W0631.americas.hpqcorp.net (16.233.59.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.0.700.0; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:36:00 +0000 Received: from G5W0274.americas.hpqcorp.net ([16.228.8.60]) by G5W0323.americas.hpqcorp.net ([16.228.8.68]) with mapi; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:35:59 +0000 From: "Bound, Jim" To: Pekka Savola , "john.loughney@nokia.com" Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:35:58 +0000 Thread-Topic: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated Thread-Index: Acg3d0kIdk8jyihfRWmxAxdPkA1aIAAD2Sag Message-ID: <1AB21F94DA6EEF459F107706554433392210FDFCFA@G5W0274.americas.hpqcorp.net> References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" , "brian@innovationslab.net" , "Bob.Hinden@nokia.com" Subject: RE: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > So, why would updating the RFC be useful, given that the > running code of the IETF is to let the documents gather > enough dust.. and then let them rot because they've become > too dusty to be revived. I like the above this could work......................... /jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:43 PM > To: john.loughney@nokia.com > Cc: Bob.Hinden@nokia.com; brian@innovationslab.net; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver > 6MAN Agenda updated > > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, john.loughney@nokia.com wrote: > > 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node > Requirements > > document > > was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node > > Requirements doc? > > Which updates are we thinking about here? Documents which > have Obsoleted (in the RFC editor's registry) old ones? The > implementors (or the customers that write RFPs for them) are > smart enough to figure this out themselves. > > So, why would updating the RFC be useful, given that the > running code of the IETF is to let the documents gather > enough dust.. and then let them rot because they've become > too dusty to be revived. > > Don't we have better things to spend our cycles, i.e., things > that are actually broken (e.g., RFC3484 issues) instead of > just updating obsoleted RFC numbers? > > Unless there is clear justification why just updating a > couple of RFC numbers would be beneficial, we should probably either: > > a) forget about the update or > > b) consider a more throrough process including obtaining > IETF Consensus on what the IPv6 node requirements really are > (make it BCP or standards track). > > I think b) is what USG is using this document for even though > it currently doesn't have any IETF consensus behind it (it's > just an informative list of some RFCs somewhat related to IPv6). > > Some might say the current state is somewhat problematical > and making a superficial update without fixing the root > problems could make the matter even worse. > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:40:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01zC-0005Il-A6; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:40:54 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01zB-0005I7-0Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:40:53 -0500 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.188]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01zA-0002WA-Ih for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:40:52 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so3578733rvb for ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:40:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3cZAqj7ccPuBhFGs3qmQ2iIwLEOU03HxTVAO4CImzdM=; b=qBflITlICH6VKHRB2JhWlAv62w2RN9FY3tRbFszWgVF1S4pQFa6En/FjiZQkNhytTLAozhQdikeRGEMRkNERt1sz0X0y8phLMdFB8QyJO3fs/03qe7XlZQhVyXxfaktnykR0DHaZ8RjMl/4iqZ+0PKjyiilTuqost4xpKajWyWc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wlEVlNIazel1fG0qEsI2g6Gk+0206bqU11LEunWsTtLHVQ5yD/L640SExeNlF/lVdWrG3Zj0pNNxGJgWQ55kfvaRgcnshFpjjFiYMQhIPvjxgg7G+4a0PN5hzzJN7Zwexfr7O4hiJabi1bNwRcZ6vIxacAsinlDg8ngy7ra5IdE= Received: by 10.140.199.19 with SMTP id w19mr1515066rvf.1196890848117; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.198? ( [222.153.133.210]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f10sm44464rvb.2007.12.05.13.40.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:40:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47571AD7.7090401@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:40:39 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net> <4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200712051433.lB5EXBBr031834@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: john.loughney@nokia.com, ipv6@ietf.org, brian@innovationslab.net, Bob.Hinden@nokia.com Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-12-06 03:33, Thomas Narten wrote: >> 1) Quite a few RFCs have been updated since the IPv6 Node Requirements >> document >> was published. Is there interest in updating the IPv6 Node >> Requirements doc? > > Yes. The published RFC was already "old" by the time it gotten > published because it had been on hold for reference dependencies for > so long.... +1, and *additionally* it would be really valuable to have a continuously maintained HTMLised version - unofficial, but current - since we'll never be able to keep the RFC 100% current. Brian > > The USG (via NIST and DoD) have IPv6 profiles that are heavily based > on the Node Requirements RFC. I think there are places where we should > clarify existing language, based on the experience people have had in > using RFC 4294. > >> 2) If there is interest, what should be update look like: >> a) Simple update, covering just the updates in the base RFCs. > > Let's keep things small and focused, please. Just update the Node > Requirements RFC. Note: we can always update it again later! > > To be useful, the published RFC needs to be up-to-date. I'd aim for > getting the revisions done by summer of next year (i.e., around summer > meeting time). > > Thomas > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:46:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J024G-0007X4-M5; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:46:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J024F-0007Ut-CH for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:46:07 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J024D-0006v4-8U for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:46:07 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.58.37]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5LjvXX025754; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:45:58 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5LjuSp705369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:45:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47571C14.9020601@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:45:56 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an RFC does not > exist - at least describing total details of an aggregation router - > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The closest > I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as multi-link router. FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never send any redirects. > Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to configure this > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting AdvOnLinkFlag=False. If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I can help. > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router. The > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. Have you contacted the host vendor? > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. It does cover it. If no information is know about an address (which is this case - no prefix options with L=1 and no redirects) then the host will send to a default router. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 16:48:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0262-00004s-Bd; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:47:58 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0261-0008WJ-38 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:47:57 -0500 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.184]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0260-0003S0-9C for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:47:57 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so3580920rvb for ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:47:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bnYtNE/t3rdYsmFnodPsOGL420QYnHbesar+/P2JnxE=; b=cZns68slEbvXPuZtcyDHPxRUbn4ThAvN7h2MFg31q6ilnEgds63Lpv2OKUX8l1XGhWf8Ev7tUIfOPVLEEalLzqrtwgo03c/9zZQ1XDZy7VwBy1p7TjllMWfzJQQ3VPvSJheDj/Th9NSUmyjeauhhRiP46Mn5Vdss6qBdEYfCV/Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=S1S0x005hPH+SMyC3LZB27dLY7HaeprelTpHdCzJtNVFOVZPugB57g9N/hpGVR8qu9LAUcnSFeEqX+ddPcVX1vsyhNtCkElcCJY6dD4umKK7IlbCP6gKdNDt9Bx6mQ8v49uGatu4D14fBt5BgO3HQVFE7aLH3nTscj3iWueyMIY= Received: by 10.140.173.15 with SMTP id v15mr1526813rve.1196891275313; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.198? ( [222.153.133.210]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l32sm175726rvb.2007.12.05.13.47.51 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:47:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47571C7D.3000301@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:47:41 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-12-06 08:39, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > ULA is LOCAL. > > It has nothing to do with PI. Another way to say it is that there is a default expectation that ULAs will be filtered and that PI prefixes will be routed. That's a good enough rationale for having them in separate parts of the address space - a ULA being routed or a PI prefix being filtered are both things that should raise an operational flag, and that will be easier if they're distinguishable at a glance. There's no sense in looking for any deeper significance than that. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 17:04:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02MD-0000mY-PP; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:04:41 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02MC-0000lk-NG for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:04:40 -0500 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02MC-00057n-CX for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:04:40 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB5M4X3l001262; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:04:34 -0600 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:04:33 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:04:32 -0500 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED4@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Stupid ULA discussion Thread-Index: Acg3hyw1VAyuOm1WRj69jrkrQZUClQAAoTG6 References: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: "Brian Dickson" , "Iljitsch van Beijnum" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 22:04:33.0791 (UTC) FILETIME=[D161A0F0:01C8378A] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian, > And to point out the existence of a suitable replacement for IPv4's=20 > 10.0.0.0/8 et al, if they want a non-registered, non-unique, truly=20 > non-routable address space that maps well to their current RFC 1918 = space. > And that would be the IPv4-mapped IPv6 address space for RFC 1918. > I.e. ::ffff:10.0.0.0, ::ffff:172.16.0.0 and ::ffff:192.168.0.0 (as = /104,=20 > /108, and /112 respectively.) Please do not suggest anything remotely close to this. The v4 mapped v6 = address=20 space is for API compatibility purposes only (i.e. use AF_INET6 with=20 v4 addresses). These addresses should never ever appear on the wire. For more information see section 2.2 of RFC4942 and=20 draft-itojun-v6ops-v4mapped-harmful-02.txt (expired draft - google it) Cheers Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 17:11:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02SR-0006bX-CJ; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:11:07 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02SP-0006aV-Ru for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:11:05 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02SO-0000sI-6Q for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:11:05 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 17:11:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5MB407030084; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:11:04 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5MAp0o013453; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:11:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:10:59 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:10:58 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3hZhrzHhOQEwtTPiQ531iRI/0PwABZuPw References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 22:10:59.0358 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7327BE0:01C8378B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5266; t=1196892664; x=1197756664; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Ralph=20Droms=20(rdroms)=22=20; bh=+7iX8SdhlOIiLIimV2fc/9Jt9SVx+S0oHkX9b4wgJQc=; b=QBYWxMMcDVcZSOmW2pD0yx2NM/ogBbnZWqRM4Mcu6zMfNrktBFDesUY4PWVVhEYc/wlqvgV1 UwDVbSmhkv/CP1Tk2i9QyraE1h+ZjFmwbGLAnZxqaZhGlm0SOdTTRwBZ; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Erik and Hesham, did you read our on-and-off-link draft? It has lot of clarification data in the draft. Wrt to the problem Ralph mentioned below, our draft says the following: 2. The on-link definition in section 2.1 of RFC 4861 [ND] describes the only means for on-link determination. DHCPv6 or any other configuration on the host MUST NOT be used for on-link determination. Manual configuration of a host introduces its own set of security considerations and is beyond the scope of this Singh & Beebee Expires May 3, 2008 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft ND On-link Determination October 2007 document. Note that the on-link definition as specified by RFC 4861 [ND] does not include manual configuration. This is a totally correct paragraph based off of RFC 4861, 4862, and 3315 (DHCPv6).=20 It's a lot of things we are saying in our drafts that needed clarification in 4861. It's not just one thing.=20 Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Droms (rdroms)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:27 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Erik Nordmark; IPV6 List Mailing; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it seems the host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation carried over IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix information to a host as a side effect of address assignment to interfaces. In IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for announcing prefix information, so no prefix state should be inferred from address assignment. In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in RFC 4861, as the host has no information about on-link status of a prefix if there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should send any outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the host has not received a PIO to the default router. - Ralph On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Erik, > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router. =20 > The > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. > > I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >> Suresh, >> >> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new >> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, >> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below >> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > Erik > >> >> Hemant >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM >> To: ipv6@ietf.org >> Subject: Off-link and on-link >> >> Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, >> I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is >> necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. =20 >> Let's > >> say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 >> is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How >> would it go about describing this? I see two ways >> >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses = >> not > >> on the /64 >> b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link >> flag)=3D0 >> >> I see b) as being more efficient than a) >> >> P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >> >> Cheers >> Suresh >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From EllisdeckerWaters@elysee.fr Wed Dec 05 17:13:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02Ul-0000d7-Ht; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:13:31 -0500 Received: from pc-8-202-239-201.cm.vtr.net ([201.239.202.8] helo=totitalinda) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02Ul-0005r1-70; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:13:31 -0500 Received: from muzak by elysee.fr with SMTP id qtkdN7tkUT for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:12:11 +0400 From: "Laurence Alvarado" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02i2-000557-FI; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:27:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02i0-00054y-VM for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:27:12 -0500 Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.64.48]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02i0-0002fS-Ku for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:27:12 -0500 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/8.14.0/SMTPOUT) with ESMTP id lB5MR4sb024185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id lB5MR4jG023999; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NEBH-11.ne.nos.boeing.com (xch-nebh-11.ne.nos.boeing.com [128.225.80.27]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id lB5MR3i8023990; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NE-1V2.ne.nos.boeing.com ([128.225.80.43]) by XCH-NEBH-11.ne.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:27:03 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:26:24 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED4@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Stupid ULA discussion Thread-Index: Acg3hyw1VAyuOm1WRj69jrkrQZUClQAAoTG6AAD4F0A= References: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED4@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: "Manfredi, Albert E" To: "Suresh Krishnan" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 22:27:03.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[F601F920:01C8378D] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:05 PM > To: Brian Dickson; Iljitsch van Beijnum > Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List > Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion >=20 > Hi Brian, >=20 > > And to point out the existence of a suitable replacement for IPv4's=20 > > 10.0.0.0/8 et al, if they want a non-registered, non-unique, truly=20 > > non-routable address space that maps well to their current =20 > RFC 1918 space. >=20 > > And that would be the IPv4-mapped IPv6 address space for RFC 1918. > > I.e. ::ffff:10.0.0.0, ::ffff:172.16.0.0 and=20 > ::ffff:192.168.0.0 (as /104,=20 > > /108, and /112 respectively.) >=20 > Please do not suggest anything remotely close to this. The v4=20 > mapped v6 address=20 > space is for API compatibility purposes only (i.e. use AF_INET6 with=20 > v4 addresses). These addresses should never ever appear on the wire. Aww shucks. And I had been holding that concept in my back of last-resort tricks. Bert -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 17:40:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02v6-0001QH-Di; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:40:44 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02v4-0001Ph-HB for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:40:42 -0500 Received: from [2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e] (helo=givry.fdupont.fr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J02v2-0004LH-1z for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:40:42 -0500 Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5Mdx4L033060; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:39:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <200712052239.lB5Mdx4L033060@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ralph Droms In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:27:04 EST. Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:39:59 +0100 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org As you've already entered in this topics, according to DHCPv6 address assignment users the current situation where on links without RAs or with RAs without PIOs can be solved into two bad ways: - assume a 128 bit prefix length: not incorrect but surely inefficient so often qualified as stupid - assume a 64 bit prefix length: works almost everywhere but not everywhere so can be incorrect. So please don't believe everybody happy with current DHCPv6... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: I've personally used DHCPv6 only for Prefix Delegation so I reflect a concern from other people. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 17:49:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J033Z-0006hd-Fl; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:49:29 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J033X-0006Vf-AB for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:49:27 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J033W-0001dP-P6 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:49:27 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 14:49:26 -0800 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5MnQhW011127; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:49:26 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5MnQ1f010462; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:49:26 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:49:25 -0800 Received: from dhcp-10cc.ietf70.org ([10.21.116.70]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:49:25 -0800 Message-Id: <7FE69A6A-AA5D-4BF9-859B-F3D3BF965416@cisco.com> From: Ralph Droms To: Francis Dupont In-Reply-To: <200712052239.lB5Mdx4L033060@givry.fdupont.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:49:16 -0500 References: <200712052239.lB5Mdx4L033060@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 22:49:25.0701 (UTC) FILETIME=[15E27F50:01C83791] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1362; t=1196894966; x=1197758966; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link=20 |Sender:=20; bh=o8f7JguxxqnGVxhndCTs+saIs9NgNcpd7fFXKKFt5iA=; b=f+j1mWRlHx9hvdO/S9Z2MNQMunFW+q+MvP2retWawBbZ+5avahSPjRHBArbEIG3DB3pJv9BE aG4UNerkUF7Xmeiyz9VvwRIRf881SP9yNfSNq/Hr6zBAC1w51wX505E9; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Francis - In my opinion, the important problem scenario is when the host has no on-link prefix information AND the host has no default router. This is most likely to happen when there are no RAs (likely because there is no router on the link), and can also happen when there are no default routers in any received RAs. I agree that there is an issue in this problem scenario and one solution would be to include prefix information in DHCPv6 messages. If v6ops or 6man were to determine that carrying prefix information in DHCPv6 is useful, the dhc WG would be happy to define an appropriate extension to DHCPv6. - Ralph On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,5:39 PM, Francis Dupont wrote: > As you've already entered in this topics, according to DHCPv6 address > assignment users the current situation where on links without RAs or > with RAs without PIOs can be solved into two bad ways: > - assume a 128 bit prefix length: not incorrect but surely inefficient > so often qualified as stupid > - assume a 64 bit prefix length: works almost everywhere but not > everywhere so can be incorrect. > So please don't believe everybody happy with current DHCPv6... > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > > PS: I've personally used DHCPv6 only for Prefix Delegation so I > reflect > a concern from other people. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 18:01:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03FT-0005Y3-A3; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:01:47 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03FR-0005IA-FZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:01:45 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03FQ-0002xz-Ta for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:01:45 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 18:01:45 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5N1ihW022339; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:01:44 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB5N1EC8016551; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:01:44 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:01:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:01:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47571C14.9020601@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3iD9G3iCzO2UoT0CSK1KKTcWCTAACV3Ug References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> <47571C14.9020601@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 23:01:36.0169 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9471190:01C83792] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3437; t=1196895704; x=1197759704; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=yiA+2oMPrIJ2WCI2ujY8RSplzTzvwwtXZLRQkk2S9HQ=; b=KfFkWj+yE2w6YxHxApZfXV111GF6HyQufk3fvNuZCFpJ04kqU+epiYt4nbH+lAAlUF+2gE1L WFUnNIoHHwboU5XkgeYLOXOHGKNCM4zP5+gkzjA+uskGGJ0aUTWzUagb; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Erik, I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the community didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and 2.2.1 of our draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. As for the off-link suggestion you make below for AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse, folks = might not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be clear and off-link is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped below is text from section 2.3 on our draft. [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]":=20 "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.... Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]."] Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC 4861. This text is not clear. Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an RFC does not=20 > exist - at least describing total details of an aggregation router -=20 > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The=20 > closest I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as multi-link router. FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never send any redirects. > Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to configure this=20 > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I can help. > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router.=20 > The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN=20 > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. Have you contacted the host vendor? > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the=20 > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially=20 > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. It does cover it. If no information is know about an address (which is this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no redirects) then the host will send to a default router. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 18:02:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03Fj-0006MF-MM; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:02:03 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03Fi-0006JW-AE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:02:02 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03Fh-0002zT-VE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:02:02 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.228.31]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB5N1vPs012548; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:01:57 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB5N1ps2707052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:01:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47572DDE.6020609@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:01:50 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Suresh Krishnan References: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED4@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED4@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Please do not suggest anything remotely close to this. The v4 mapped v6 address > space is for API compatibility purposes only (i.e. use AF_INET6 with > v4 addresses). These addresses should never ever appear on the wire. Never say never. RFC 2765 - a proposed standard - do send them on the wire. Whether this is a good or bad idea is a different matter - I just wanted to point out we have a PS on the books which uses them. Erik > For more information see section 2.2 of RFC4942 and > draft-itojun-v6ops-v4mapped-harmful-02.txt (expired draft - google it) > > Cheers > Suresh > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 18:27:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03eK-0000LE-Dh; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:27:28 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03eJ-0000L0-6R for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:27:27 -0500 Received: from mail-out4.apple.com ([17.254.13.23]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03eI-0005jj-Ir for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:27:27 -0500 Received: from relay11.apple.com (relay11.apple.com [17.128.113.48]) by mail-out4.apple.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4081B0F6C5 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay11.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay11.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 8F8FD28091 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 11807130-a964dbb000004fb9-7c-475733ddc353 Received: from [17.206.23.192] (il0602a-dhcp64.apple.com [17.206.23.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay11.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 7421E2808D for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> References: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9FF99E2B-5079-4E94-873D-9B1162DDE9A4@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:27:20 -0800 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org The subject line on this thread is absolutely correct. On Dec 5, 2007, at 13:32, Brian Dickson wrote: > Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: >> ULA is LOCAL. >> >> It has nothing to do with PI. >> >> People need address space to number the links between their SQL =20 >> and web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space =20 >> used on the internet. > > ULA is also UNIQUE. > (Well, for half of ULA, "probably unique"). The phrase you are looking for is "statistically unique." "Probably," my house will still be standing in another thirty years. =20= Yet, I'm still paying for fire insurance. "Statistically," there is =20 no chance I'm going to die by being struck on the head directly by a =20 newly fallen meteorite. Am I concerned enough about my exposure to =20 the risk of falling meteorites to worry about whether my life =20 insurance policy covers it? Not at all. Which gives me an idea: I should go into the insurance business, =20 selling ULA prefixes that I *GUARANTEE* (for an UNLIMITED TIME!!!) to =20= be ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE or I will pay triple the cost of migrating your =20 network to a new ULA prefix when a documented collision occurs. I =20 can do this with 5 lines of totally stateless Perl added to some =20 stupid web server=97 it's just a random number generator. I'll MAKE =20 ZILLIONS FAST! > It would be a service, rather than a disservice, to the community =20 > of "network admins" (LAN admins), to educate them on the value of =20 > uniqueness. And the difference between "probably unique" and *statistically* =20 unique. Here's Brad DeLong explaining what kinds of tragedy can =20 befall the poor sod who fails to grasp the importance of statistics: The key sentences... >> This is the principal insight of the science of statistics. it is =20 >> an important insight. It is a powerful insight. It is also not an =20 >> *obvious* insight--that's what makes it powerful and important. >> Emphasis mine. > And to point out the existence of a suitable replacement for IPv4's =20= > 10.0.0.0/8 et al, if they want a non-registered, non-unique, truly =20 > non-routable address space that maps well to their current RFC =20 > 1918 space. > > And that would be the IPv4-mapped IPv6 address space for RFC 1918. > I.e. ::ffff:10.0.0.0, ::ffff:172.16.0.0 and ::ffff:192.168.0.0 (as /=20= > 104, /108, and /112 respectively.) > > And yes, I know it's ugly and rude. Suresh Krishnan is correct. Please do not suggest anything remotely =20 close to this. Not V4MAPPED addresses. Not V4COMPAT addresses. Not =20= 6to4-prefix addresses. Not Teredo addresses. Please do not embed =20 RFC 1918 addresses in IPv6 addresses full-stop. To do so is morally =20 equivalent to reinventing the functionality of the deprecated site-=20 local addresses in some other corner of the address space for no good =20= purpose. That way lies utter madness. Go not that way. > But it makes it easy for the end admin to manage the dual-stack =20 > universe between their SQL and web servers. If we're going to have another round of this discussion, can all the =20 participants please make a solemn pledge to read RFC 3879 all the way =20= through and to ask the authors, who are both regular participants =20 here, for help with the underlying concepts if any of them are =20 confusing? 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------=_NextPart_000_5B684_01C8379C.6F08E960-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:14:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04NR-0002Hn-R9; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04NQ-0002Hb-LZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:04 -0500 Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.64.48]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04NP-0004yb-IM for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:04 -0500 Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (blv-av-01.boeing.com [192.42.227.216]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/8.14.0/SMTPOUT) with ESMTP id lB60DqVt015343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id lB60Dpq1001483; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id lB60Dpba001477; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:13:51 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:13:51 -0800 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029EDC9C@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <9FF99E2B-5079-4E94-873D-9B1162DDE9A4@apple.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Stupid ULA discussion Thread-Index: Acg3lm/SyjXKfL08TA+Ewe6xdd7kGAABbBeA References: <475718FB.3060100@ca.afilias.info> <9FF99E2B-5079-4E94-873D-9B1162DDE9A4@apple.com> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "james woodyatt" , "IETF IPv6 Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 00:13:51.0711 (UTC) FILETIME=[E17646F0:01C8379C] X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Cc: Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org James,=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: james woodyatt [mailto:jhw@apple.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:27 PM > To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List > Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion >=20 > The subject line on this thread is absolutely correct. >=20 > On Dec 5, 2007, at 13:32, Brian Dickson wrote: > > Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > >> ULA is LOCAL. > >> > >> It has nothing to do with PI. > >> > >> People need address space to number the links between their SQL =20 > >> and web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space =20 > >> used on the internet. > > > > ULA is also UNIQUE. > > (Well, for half of ULA, "probably unique"). >=20 > The phrase you are looking for is "statistically unique." >=20 > "Probably," my house will still be standing in another thirty=20 > years. =20 > Yet, I'm still paying for fire insurance. "Statistically," there is =20 > no chance I'm going to die by being struck on the head directly by a =20 > newly fallen meteorite. Am I concerned enough about my exposure to =20 > the risk of falling meteorites to worry about whether my life =20 > insurance policy covers it? Not at all. >=20 > Which gives me an idea: I should go into the insurance business, =20 > selling ULA prefixes that I *GUARANTEE* (for an UNLIMITED=20 > TIME!!!) to =20 > be ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE or I will pay triple the cost of migrating your =20 > network to a new ULA prefix when a documented collision occurs. I =20 > can do this with 5 lines of totally stateless Perl added to some =20 > stupid web server- it's just a random number generator. I'll MAKE =20 > ZILLIONS FAST! I have seen phony versions of such a "service" advertised by others at least twice in the past; nice work if you can get it! =20 > > It would be a service, rather than a disservice, to the community =20 > > of "network admins" (LAN admins), to educate them on the value of =20 > > uniqueness. >=20 > And the difference between "probably unique" and *statistically* =20 > unique. Here's Brad DeLong explaining what kinds of tragedy can =20 > befall the poor sod who fails to grasp the importance of statistics: >=20 > >=20 > The key sentences... > >> This is the principal insight of the science of statistics. it is =20 > >> an important insight. It is a powerful insight. It is also not an =20 > >> *obvious* insight--that's what makes it powerful and important. > >> >=20 > Emphasis mine. >=20 > > And to point out the existence of a suitable replacement=20 > for IPv4's =20 > > 10.0.0.0/8 et al, if they want a non-registered, non-unique, truly =20 > > non-routable address space that maps well to their current RFC =20 > > 1918 space. > > > > And that would be the IPv4-mapped IPv6 address space for RFC 1918. > > I.e. ::ffff:10.0.0.0, ::ffff:172.16.0.0 and=20 > ::ffff:192.168.0.0 (as /=20 > > 104, /108, and /112 respectively.) > > > > And yes, I know it's ugly and rude. >=20 > Suresh Krishnan is correct. Please do not suggest anything remotely =20 > close to this. Not V4MAPPED addresses. Not V4COMPAT=20 > addresses. Not =20 > 6to4-prefix addresses. Not Teredo addresses. Please do not embed =20 > RFC 1918 addresses in IPv6 addresses full-stop. This is exactly why we have ISATAP addresses (RFC4214). Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > To do so is morally =20 > equivalent to reinventing the functionality of the deprecated site-=20 > local addresses in some other corner of the address space for=20 > no good =20 > purpose. That way lies utter madness. Go not that way. >=20 > > But it makes it easy for the end admin to manage the dual-stack =20 > > universe between their SQL and web servers. >=20 >=20 > If we're going to have another round of this discussion, can all the =20 > participants please make a solemn pledge to read RFC 3879 all=20 > the way =20 > through and to ask the authors, who are both regular participants =20 > here, for help with the underlying concepts if any of them are =20 > confusing? Please? >=20 > -- > james woodyatt > member of technical staff, communications engineering >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:21:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Uo-0004ev-79; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:21:42 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Um-0004dB-RE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:21:40 -0500 Received: from mail.globalsuite.net ([69.46.103.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Uj-0002Sw-9R for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:21:38 -0500 X-AuditID: c0a8013c-aff27bb000001e2e-ba-4757408e5753 Received: from PC20005 (unknown [207.236.117.226]) by mail.globalsuite.net (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 9A2334DC007; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:21:33 -0700 (MST) From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Hemant Singh \(shemant\)'" , "'Erik Nordmark'" Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:21:16 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acg3iD9G3iCzO2UoT0CSK1KKTcWCTAACV3UgAAT/DRA= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the community > didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. > > How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. As for the > off-link suggestion you make below for AdvOnLinkFlag=False, > folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. > > [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]": > > "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are > off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]."] > > Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC > 4861. This text is not clear. => I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly my explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There is no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the consequence of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to the default router. The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So if all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L flag is clear. In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets to the default router. If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I don't know how to make it any clearer. Hesham > > Thanks. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as > multi-link router. > > FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that > using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have > been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never > send any redirects. > > > Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? > > By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the > router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting > AdvOnLinkFlag=False. > > If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you > should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I > can help. > > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation router. > > The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic > forwarding. > > That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. > Have you contacted the host vendor? > > > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to > describe on-link. > > It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=1 and no redirects) > then the host > will send to a default router. > > Erik > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:25:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04YR-0004YZ-I9; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:25:27 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04YO-0003yM-Pc for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:25:24 -0500 Received: from static-66-15-163-216.bdsl.verizon.net ([66.15.163.216] helo=tndh.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04YO-0002me-6e for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:25:24 -0500 Received: from eagle (192.168.123.10:3379) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:25:20 -0800 From: "Tony Hain" To: "'Brian E Carpenter'" , "'Iljitsch van Beijnum'" References: <47571C7D.3000301@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <47571C7D.3000301@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:25:20 -0800 Message-ID: <07df01c8379e$7cc7abc0$76570340$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acg3iIEJpmMnGmLkThqK+9gcF/dmHwAE51Rg Content-Language: en-us X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: 'IETF IPv6 Mailing List' Subject: RE: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alh-ietf@tndh.net List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter wrote: >=20 > On 2007-12-06 08:39, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > > ULA is LOCAL. > > > > It has nothing to do with PI. >=20 > Another way to say it is that there is a default expectation > that ULAs will be filtered and that PI prefixes will be > routed. That's a good enough rationale for having them in > separate parts of the address space - a ULA being routed > or a PI prefix being filtered are both things that should > raise an operational flag, and that will be easier if they're > distinguishable at a glance. >=20 > There's no sense in looking for any deeper significance > than that. Actually there is, because the public network operator community = -thinks- they know what the important/easy issues are for enterprise = network operators. Never mind that they have no real clue about how = difficult it is to carve up portions of an otherwise aggregated space = and keep that correct at all instances over an extended period of time. = Clear separation is a great simplifier, and should be good enough, but = repetition of this conversation by people that want nothing more than to = tell others how to run their network shows it is not.=20 The place to look for deeper significance is in address selection. The = question continually comes up about how a host could possibly select = between a restricted local and a global reach prefix if it has both, and = the answer is if they are out of the same aggregate they can't. Putting = the local use prefix in a part of the space that makes longest-match = address selection trivial is the real value behind ULA-C.=20 Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:29:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04bu-0003zA-QR; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:29:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04bs-0003kn-Od for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:29:00 -0500 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04bs-00033i-CJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:29:00 -0500 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293DC5C48E; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:29:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:29:00 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: vQE/nnO20cjdbwDOkSFIqWoc/tI6k77ym3ZLO1NJVtI/ 1196900939 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [209.40.199.100]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CA2111CF; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: Per Heldal To: Iljitsch van Beijnum In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:28:39 +0100 Message-Id: <1196900919.7287.64.camel@obelix.sandbu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 11:39 -0800, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > ULA is LOCAL. > > It has nothing to do with PI. > > People need address space to number the links between their SQL and > web servers. This is completely orthogonal to address space used on > the internet. > > If it's routed at some point, this means we're all getting enough > money to change our minds on the merits of routing unroutable space so > by definition, we'll be happy with that. > > And again: keep the RIRs out of this, this has nothing to do with > their current business. Let's pull the IETF out of policy instead, and be happy to focus on technical matters ;) To do so may even prove crucial to maintain IETF as a technical authority in the longer term. By that I mean that the IETF shouldn't be involved in address distribution matters unless there's technical reason for it, and ULA does IMHO not qualify as such. Any randomly selected address-block can be either routable or useless on the internet depending on what the operational policies are, regardless of what the IETF says. It doesn't matter what it is called. IETF shouldn't even care. Existing RFCs that deal with local-addressing (in the context of "private addresses") for v6 are really unnecessary, and should at least be changed from technical standards to BCPs (in line with rfc1918). The days when the only way to form global policies for IANA was through the IETF are over. If there's a need for global allocation of addresses for special purposes those needs should be communicated to the ICANN ASO (or whatever that'll be in the future if the UN-IGF gets their way) which in turn will request IANA to make an appropriate allocation. In practise that would require the RIR-communities (not to be confused with the operational units who handle the registration process) to pass unified requests for a global policy to the ASO. IANA may later choose to delegate coordination tasks for ULA-G/C/whatever back to RIR-operations, but that's just another practical issue the IETF doesn't need to bother with. //per -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 21:37:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06bk-0004c4-MR; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:37:00 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06bj-0004bi-FI for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:36:59 -0500 Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06bi-0008Nm-21 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:36:59 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.56.144]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id lB62atTH013623; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 02:36:55 GMT Received: from [10.7.251.248] (punchin-nordmark.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.248]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB62alni714195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:36:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4757603F.1000601@sun.com> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:36:47 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> <47571C14.9020601@sun.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant and I met this afternoon and he explained the details of what they've observed, which helped me a lot more than the discussion in the WG meeting. Based on this I think I understand the root cause of why some implementors get some things wrong. The IPv6 subnet model is quite different than IPv4 in that it is optional to have any subnet prefix. In IPv4 there is always a subnet prefix associated an IP address (at least on anything but a point-to-point link). While one can *infer* this from all of the text in RFC 4861, it might make sense to have an RFC which - makes this difference very explicit - gives examples of some implementation mistakes we've seen as a result I don't think tweaking the text in RFC 4861 will necessarily help, since it gets lost in the volume of that RFC. I told Hemant I'll help to make sure that high-level explanatory text is included. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 22:00:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06y2-0008RI-Ii; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:00:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06y0-0008IR-KZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:00:00 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06xz-00076G-SK for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:00:00 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 21:59:59 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB62xxKT011584; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:59:59 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB62xkBs026444; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 02:59:59 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:59:50 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:59:49 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4757603F.1000601@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3sRPQ4PCQ1vGJRk21IUGGnzfAQgAAB84g References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542ED1@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475709F5.9000800@sun.com> <47571C14.9020601@sun.com> <4757603F.1000601@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 02:59:50.0209 (UTC) FILETIME=[11307B10:01C837B4] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2701; t=1196909999; x=1197773999; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20,=20; bh=7cLft0rqYl2Nf3x9kt0+innQIuikQN1uZdGF8oQ0vBM=; b=QsM+Ab2udHjTnyMUJJ3Dy4A2BLGhJcUP5ZTzMJZyPcXIYNX2EkXOpztcki9R9qxpeGMAhkgy ufDWJI8yWiq0RCq0u5LvoGQAst9xyM5+YqPHP2ESq0s9IR15a/8qaplO; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Folks, It was a pleasure to meet Erik face to face and chat - I also appreciate his time.=20 We have already agreed about 4 months back with Jari that we are not suggesting any tweaking of text in RFC 4861 via our 3rd draft=20 (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-nd-updates-00.txt) - my slides also said, we are not actively pursuing any updates to be made to RFC 4861 - I also agree with Erik the updates would get lost in the sheer volume of that RFC; our updates draft should not be even the subject of discussion for 6man. We only wanted folks to especially read the first draft (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-on-link-and-off-link- determination-00.txt) that makes interesting reading in just the items 1-7 of section 2. Some items in the list highlight IPv4 centric mind-set of implementations. Right now we just have very explicit text in this on-and-off-link draft for IPv6 mistakes. Erik's suggestion is well-taken that we could also explain the differences with IPv4 in these cases we discuss. =20 On another note, the example that Fred Baker gave in his IPv6 SAVI BOF for spoofing gotchas is listed as an example scenario in item 5 of section 3 of our on-and-off-link draft mentioned in the URL above. We presented this example to 2462bis-8 as a scenario to show why skipping DAD did not make sense.=20 I and Wes will work with Erik to make some high-level explanatory text available.=20 Thanks very much Erik. Also thanks to all who replied on the thread. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:37 PM To: ipv6@ietf.org Cc: Hemant Singh (shemant); Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant and I met this afternoon and he explained the details of what they've observed, which helped me a lot more than the discussion in the WG meeting. Based on this I think I understand the root cause of why some implementors get some things wrong. The IPv6 subnet model is quite different than IPv4 in that it is optional to have any subnet prefix. In IPv4 there is always a subnet prefix associated an IP address (at least on anything but a point-to-point link). While one can *infer* this from all of the text in RFC 4861, it might make sense to have an RFC which - makes this difference very explicit - gives examples of some implementation mistakes we've seen as a result I don't think tweaking the text in RFC 4861 will necessarily help, since it gets lost in the volume of that RFC. I told Hemant I'll help to make sure that high-level explanatory text is included. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 22:18:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07FU-0000U1-J0; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:18:04 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07FT-0000To-DG for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:18:03 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07FS-000077-OX for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:18:03 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 19:18:02 -0800 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB63I2h3003841; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:18:02 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB63Hmqb002438; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:17:57 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:17:54 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:17:52 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-ipv6-config-01: I and Pasi met today Thread-Index: Acg3tpZXeAd0oAkFRLKSL/O6MqvvGQ== From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: , "Jari Arkko" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 03:17:54.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[97C1B890:01C837B6] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4287; t=1196911082; x=1197775082; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-ipv6-config-01=3A=20I=20and=20Pasi=2 0met=20today |Sender:=20; bh=mv0QIOdA4zGHOoWxskQn2lGahHDd6xeEdMwrG5atYA4=; b=rOMCV2XMc2wbHVBwU3K4FmOY/MpKvW7slaUE46ch0YUEPxRRtLMTDtgiDzCaDkbMqGzmazKD MCv9F/RFyVxnMO5AiveypWz3Q9ZzwodSQxJr7rO+377e5iPAG4BGVByUUed/xSXES6edghbIZw Wbe7Jza2QO7QoJ6lYvx6QL+yw=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Cc: Subject: draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-ipv6-config-01: I and Pasi met today X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0896239432==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0896239432== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C837B6.96918BF1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837B6.96918BF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, =20 I have not read this draft yet and I am also not familiar with any IKE. But two things caught my attention in Pasi's presentation today. They were: =20 (a) He was looking for a link model for his IKEv2 for IPv6. (b) He said the VPN concentrator in his IKEv2 needed to support 40K-50K clients and it was not possible to have so many disparate network interfaces on the VPN concentration router.=20 =20 Having heard just these two things, I did suggest in the meeting that an aggregation router model fit his link model. As Erik has explained in his email, what I call as an aggregation router is what IETF community calls as a point-to-point link model of large number of clients attached to a single router.=20 =20 I met Pasi too and explained to him on paper what I called as an aggregation router and he explained to me what was IKE2. I worked out an aggregation router link model for his VPN concentrator. Then we worked out a new call signaling flow so that a single IPv6 address can be assigned to the client by the VPN concentrator. We left with the thought that no gotchas were left in the new design. He thinks an Appendix can be added to his draft to show this model we developed today. We'll wait for him to reply. =20 Hemant ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837B6.96918BF1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
 
I have = not read this=20 draft yet and I am also not familiar with any IKE. But two things caught = my=20 attention in Pasi's presentation today. They = were:
 
(a) He = was looking=20 for a link model for his IKEv2 for IPv6.
(b)=20  He said the VPN concentrator in = his IKEv2=20 needed to support 40K-50K clients and it was not possible to have so = many=20 disparate network interfaces on the VPN concentration router.=20
 
Having = heard just=20 these two things, I did suggest in the meeting that an aggregation = router model=20 fit his link model. As Erik has explained in his email, what I call as = an=20 aggregation router is what IETF community calls as a point-to-point link = model=20 of large number of clients attached to a single router. =
 
I met = Pasi too and=20 explained to him on paper what I called as an aggregation router and he=20 explained to me what was IKE2. I worked out an aggregation router = link=20 model for his VPN concentrator. Then we worked out a new call signaling = flow so=20 that a single IPv6 address can be assigned to the client by the VPN=20 concentrator. We left with the thought that no gotchas were left in the = new=20 design. He thinks an Appendix can be added to his draft to show this = model we=20 developed today. We'll wait for him to reply.
 
Hemant
------_=_NextPart_001_01C837B6.96918BF1-- --===============0896239432== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0896239432==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 22:34:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Vh-0007Dy-6C; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:34:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Vg-0007Dq-AR for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:34:48 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07Vf-0001Ch-Sy for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:34:48 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 19:34:47 -0800 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB63YlG3021702; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:34:47 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB63YQ1r013401; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:34:46 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:34:46 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:34:45 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7FE69A6A-AA5D-4BF9-859B-F3D3BF965416@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3kRau4r25IinDQkmfl22GeU97tgAJwb2A References: <200712052239.lB5Mdx4L033060@givry.fdupont.fr> <7FE69A6A-AA5D-4BF9-859B-F3D3BF965416@cisco.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" , "Francis Dupont" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 03:34:46.0372 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2999240:01C837B8] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1843; t=1196912087; x=1197776087; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link=20 |Sender:=20; bh=539y4VFMO565HFQ2NVoMDGFuBQ9GRoOtUCyrT5MrsYA=; b=iPAwWCZ7B1KlrabEDm9bLvH0nkTCn0o+UisGWsEP9/8PWh1nGG1rMDGWdmUoVw65fI6GQ7Li EU9xOy2qN/CvpQSuUv69AfGb/BPjkjE6BbJWjcDQRefKoo2zws7Qqk+Pc1e9CHfw9gLVARo05l SCTmCd188lPbVQP2RFvRhdtkY=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Ralph and other DHCPv6 folks, Sorry, if I missed the deployment model where there is no router on the link. Could you please articulate what commercially deployed IPv6 services will not include an IPv6 router? Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Droms (rdroms)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:49 PM To: Francis Dupont Cc: Hemant Singh (shemant); Erik Nordmark; IPV6 List Mailing; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link=20 Francis - In my opinion, the important problem scenario is when the host has no on-link prefix information AND the host has no default router. This is most likely to happen when there are no RAs (likely because there is no router on the link), and can also happen when there are no default routers in any received RAs. I agree that there is an issue in this problem scenario and one =20 solution would be to include prefix information in DHCPv6 messages. =20 If v6ops or 6man were to determine that carrying prefix information in DHCPv6 is useful, the dhc WG would be happy to define an appropriate extension to DHCPv6. - Ralph On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,5:39 PM, Francis Dupont wrote: > As you've already entered in this topics, according to DHCPv6 address=20 > assignment users the current situation where on links without RAs or=20 > with RAs without PIOs can be solved into two bad ways: > - assume a 128 bit prefix length: not incorrect but surely inefficient > so often qualified as stupid > - assume a 64 bit prefix length: works almost everywhere but not =20 > everywhere so can be incorrect. > So please don't believe everybody happy with current DHCPv6... > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > > PS: I've personally used DHCPv6 only for Prefix Delegation so I=20 > reflect a concern from other people. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 00:03:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08t6-0003B5-5Y; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:03:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08t5-0003Aw-14 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:03:03 -0500 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([192.100.122.233] helo=mgw-mx06.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08t3-0000Oj-I4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:03:03 -0500 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx06.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id lB652krC020951; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:02:59 +0200 Received: from daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.112]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:02:40 +0200 Received: from daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.36.13]) by daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:02:34 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:02:26 -0600 Message-ID: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD22EB8@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <1AB21F94DA6EEF459F107706554433392210FDFCFA@G5W0274.americas.hpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated thread-index: Acg3d0kIdk8jyihfRWmxAxdPkA1aIAAD2SagAA97etA= References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net><4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net><19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> <1AB21F94DA6EEF459F107706554433392210FDFCFA@G5W0274.americas.hpqcorp.net> From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 05:02:34.0936 (UTC) FILETIME=[36E8A380:01C837C5] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, brian@innovationslab.net, Bob.Hinden@nokia.com Subject: RE: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Jim, >> So, why would updating the RFC be useful, given that the running code >> of the IETF is to let the documents gather enough dust.. and then let >> them rot because they've become too dusty to be revived. > >I like the above this could work......................... The only problem is that documents live outside of the IETF. I worry that we have out of date information, and that someone will cite outdated or incorrect information. John -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SherricleavageLovell@washingtonpost.com Thu Dec 06 00:26:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Fj-00061t-13; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:27 -0500 Received: from [207.61.245.146] (helo=sult720.borealc.on.ca) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Fi-0007WW-Og; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:26 -0500 Received: from crosscut by washingtonpost.com with SMTP id ALtKMKxyyF for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:29:47 +0500 From: "Violet Bowden" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09G1-0006IY-4L; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Fz-0006IM-Fz for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:43 -0500 Received: from prometheus.interunix.net ([202.190.74.58]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Fx-0001mU-6A for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 5930 invoked by uid 1012); 6 Dec 2007 05:26:39 -0000 Received: from 202.190.74.58 by prometheus.interunix.net (envelope-from , uid 1010) with qmail-scanner-1.25-st-qms (clamdscan: 0.87/3227. spamassassin: 3.1.8. perlscan: 1.25-st-qms. Clear:RC:0(202.190.74.58):SA:0(-104.0/5.0):. Processed in 7.030573 secs); 06 Dec 2007 05:26:39 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-104.0 required=5.0 X-Spam-Report: SA TESTS -100 USER_IN_WHITELIST From: address is in the user's white-list 0.0 DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME Domain Keys: policy says domain signs some mails -1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.4 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list X-Antivirus-INTERUNIX-Mail-From: prabu@hackinthebox.org via prometheus.interunix.net X-Antivirus-INTERUNIX: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(202.190.74.58):SA:0(-104.0/5.0):. Processed in 7.030573 secs Process 5897) Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.3?) (prabu@interunix.net@202.190.74.58) by prometheus.interunix.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2007 05:26:32 -0000 Message-ID: <475787FA.8060105@hackinthebox.org> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:26:18 +0800 From: Praburaajan User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org, asterisk-security@lists.digium.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: Subject: HITBSecConf2007 Malaysia Videos Now Available X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org The videos from Hack In The Box Security Conference 2007 Malaysia is now available for download! The files were created in Quicktime, however if you're having trouble playing them on your platform, please ensure you have the latest 3IVX codec installed. Time to fire up your favorite Bit Torrent clients and please remember to seed! go to http://video.hitb.org/2007.html to download the torrents On a related note, the Call for Papers for HITBSecConf2008 - Dubai is still open. If you're interested in speaking at the upcoming event in the UAE, please take a look at the CFP page for details on how to submit. We are especially looking for more submissions from the EMEA region. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 02:45:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0BPJ-00083B-Ng; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:44:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0BPH-00082Q-BH for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:44:27 -0500 Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0BPD-00089C-Kb for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:44:27 -0500 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JSM00MWRASQER@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:43:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JSM00BM7ASM67@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:43:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from sandeep71635 ([10.18.5.59]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JSM002CGASJSY@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:43:34 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:13:31 +0530 From: "Sandeep.P A" To: ipv6@ietf.org Message-id: <001001c837db$b32dae20$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Acg327IWyfVVPNeDTXSfzO0w3uZvMA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bacfc6c7290e34d410f9bc22b825ce96 Subject: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1416610618==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1416610618== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_oiEjJt9hY2kNRbUv5XfIhw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_oiEjJt9hY2kNRbUv5XfIhw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Please go through the RFC excerpts below and answer the query in the end. RFC 4862 ======== 5.5.2. Absence of Router Advertisements Even if a link has no routers, the DHCPv6 service to obtain addresses may still be available, and hosts may want to use the service. From the perspective of autoconfiguration, a link has no routers if no Router Advertisements are received after having sent a small number of Router Solicitations as described in [RFC4861]. Note that it is possible that there is no router on the link in this sense, but there is a node that has the ability to forward packets. In this case, the forwarding node's address must be manually configured in hosts to be able to send packets off-link, since the only mechanism to configure the default router's address automatically is the one using Router Advertisements. RFC 4861 ========= 6.3.7. Sending Router Solicitations ... Once the host sends a Router Solicitation, and receives a valid Router Advertisement with a non-zero Router Lifetime, the host MUST desist from sending additional solicitations on that interface, until the next time one of the above events occurs. Moreover, a host SHOULD send at least one solicitation in the case where an advertisement is received prior to having sent a solicitation. Responses to solicited advertisements may contain more information than unsolicited advertisements. If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives no Router Advertisements after having waited MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY seconds after sending the last solicitation, the host concludes that there are no routers on the link for the purpose of [ADDRCONF]. However, the host continues to receive and process Router Advertisements messages in the event that routers appear on the link. Query : If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives "no Router Advertisements" after having waited MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY Here "no Router Advertisements" Is it means, RA with Non-zero lifetime or RA with zero lifetime ? Love, Sandeep **************************************************************************** **************************** This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --Boundary_(ID_oiEjJt9hY2kNRbUv5XfIhw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi,

Please go through the RFC excerpts below and answer the query in the end.

 

              RFC 4862

========

5.5.2. Absence of Router Advertisements

Even if a link has no routers, the DHCPv6 service to obtain addresses

may still be available, and hosts may want to use the service. From

the perspective of autoconfiguration, a link has no routers if no

Router Advertisements are received after having sent a small number

of Router Solicitations as described in [RFC4861].

Note that it is possible that there is no router on the link in this

sense, but there is a node that has the ability to forward packets.

In this case, the forwarding node's address must be manually

configured in hosts to be able to send packets off-link, since the

only mechanism to configure the default router's address

automatically is the one using Router Advertisements.

 

RFC 4861

=========

6.3.7. Sending Router Solicitations

...

Once the host sends a Router Solicitation, and receives a valid

Router Advertisement with a non-zero Router Lifetime, the host MUST

desist from sending additional solicitations on that interface, until

the next time one of the above events occurs. Moreover, a host

SHOULD send at least one solicitation in the case where an

advertisement is received prior to having sent a solicitation.

Responses to solicited advertisements may contain more information

than unsolicited advertisements.

 

If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives no

Router Advertisements after having waited MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY

seconds after sending the last solicitation, the host concludes that

there are no routers on the link for the purpose of [ADDRCONF].

However, the host continues to receive and process Router

Advertisements messages in the event that routers appear on the link.

 

 

Query :

If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives "no

Router Advertisements" after having waited MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY

Here "no Router Advertisements" Is it means, RA with Non-zero lifetime or RA with zero lifetime ?

 

 

 
Love,
Sandeep
********************************************************************************************************
 This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
 
--Boundary_(ID_oiEjJt9hY2kNRbUv5XfIhw)-- --===============1416610618== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1416610618==-- From Drew@bamboogrove.net Thu Dec 06 02:52:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0BWt-0006iG-4J for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:52:19 -0500 Received: from nfx-nat-225.pilsfree.net ([81.201.59.225]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0BWq-00062B-Jy for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:52:17 -0500 Received: from speed-pm1rkphpz ([189.165.55.9] helo=speed-pm1rkphpz) by nfx-nat-225.pilsfree.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1uUJAd-000POR-WQ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:52:35 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:52:14 +0100 From: "Inge Drew" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: yuqolla Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed look down to see a strong meaty cock hanging that you can be proud of http://sewwerid.com
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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83852.DD0F72B0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 14:20:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0MGf-0000YD-RN; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:20:17 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0MGe-0000Xy-CT for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:20:16 -0500 Received: from g1t0026.austin.hp.com ([15.216.28.33]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0MGc-0001JD-7q for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:20:16 -0500 Received: from g1t0026.austin.hp.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by receive-from-antispam-filter (Postfix) with SMTP id C5318C04B; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp2.fc.hp.com (smtp2.fc.hp.com [15.11.136.114]) by g1t0026.austin.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B643BC023; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [16.116.97.23] (galen.zko.hp.com [16.116.97.23]) by smtp2.fc.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191E124A5EB; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <47584B6C.8000605@hp.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:20:12 -0500 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sandeep.P A" References: <001001c837db$b32dae20$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <001001c837db$b32dae20$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sandeep.P A wrote: > Hi, > > * * > > *Query :* > > /If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives "no/ > > /*Router Advertisements"* after having waited MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY/ > > Here "no *Router Advertisements"** *Is it means, RA with Non-zero > lifetime or RA with zero lifetime ? > Neither. It simply means that a Router Advertisement has not been received. -vlad -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From RoseearringSpringer@bellinghamherald.com Thu Dec 06 15:13:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0N5t-0007Hd-G4; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:13:13 -0500 Received: from [190.40.127.253] (helo=pc1606) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0N5s-0002uj-UU; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:13:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host78169557.bellinghamherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id SfT5WWoF57.177246.b8M.T5x.8420609353626 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:12:58 +0500 Message-ID: <6b0a501c83844$6c0c82f0$3701a8c0@PC1606> From: "Denise Connor" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_6B0A1_01C83844.6C0C82F0-- From gitta-groom@chestnuttreeinn.com Thu Dec 06 16:05:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Nuo-0001kx-Q1 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:05:50 -0500 Received: from [190.65.173.9] (helo=[190.65.173.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Nuo-0007I3-2p for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:05:50 -0500 Received: by 10.48.225.211 with SMTP id ISYEhvWrBtUmr; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:05:56 -0500 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.196.154 with SMTP id WAuzhGvvNPognj.9438510226335; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:05:54 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c8384b$c8370210$09ad41be@CPU003> From: "gitta groom" To: Subject: takekust Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:05:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C83821.DF60FA10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C83821.DF60FA10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable compliments ipngwg-archive We can give you second se>.
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C83821.DF60FA10-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 16:25:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ODV-00005V-Rc; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:25:09 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ODU-00005M-EG for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:25:08 -0500 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.178]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ODS-0002LH-6F for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:25:08 -0500 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so1204026wah for ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:25:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kkdfsfYRMhYys77CKVG9fm+7VVIbmkCasfCtiIZc3Jg=; b=ntMYCqtQwhtUB+VLzszc7FXbiIdSKNg3RhprmTVlu3J9imcDxceSfM+eBvdhMItkA3b6ci4X1ISYvJSdv46+3G9YTuaHVyBXujH0VfoxADfcT7w6qKE0sndrqMmGq5JL+k0CFubX8p8zqN+vm/RZU1O7o+Qj9LriLkNIHQK6gWU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Z0pR1icyOH0umjS9j673xN7u8kg6Hgw3gykcY5IeU+aNzbFORxHcLwifF8AyjBQhC+fkIKhMbhS5UjC9V3W5Zxewwv+uGktzbsCNdLt5awUceYl6tD6idmHIAl8s5/OlXEnp3FNDXAxaGfxbexPM5W9O7/s5qp86Kr4YGkB2nm8= Received: by 10.114.109.1 with SMTP id h1mr2537162wac.1196976305530; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? ( [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m24sm1061226waf.2007.12.06.13.25.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:25:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475868AC.7030702@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:25:00 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: john.loughney@nokia.com, 6man References: <474EF664.4010806@innovationslab.net><4755BDE8.3040608@innovationslab.net><19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD227DE@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> <1AB21F94DA6EEF459F107706554433392210FDFCFA@G5W0274.americas.hpqcorp.net> <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD22EB8@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <19EBBEC503C3B5469070E0A6674A533AD22EB8@daebe104.NOE.Nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: Subject: Re: Node Requirements in Vancouver RE: Vancouver 6MAN Agenda updated X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > The only problem is that documents live outside of the IETF. I worry > that we > have out of date information, and that someone will cite outdated or > incorrect > information. They do. They also put it in text books and it gets taught to a generation of students. OBE RFCs are definitely a problem. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 16:32:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OKK-0004Wo-2F; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:32:12 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OKJ-0004Wf-BV for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:32:11 -0500 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.177]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0OKJ-0001Ti-1N for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:32:11 -0500 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so1210011wah for ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:32:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=efq+eQa8Yth7uuuZevEOFeA4FZOWxfTLJv2jstG3HI4=; b=e460GHSFIl3zewJLd9S6Lqmph9g314CYjy23FkkHeOOOnMPlwyeb+N+0Xru/ZMecJdn3JeU/egGsHmgEiFBkEo4krKRWt6M7fXvYZgXYSrF2lVXxGYwzLzZ+syN24V30/7OnNl/HMuVzX6cqcMmKPkE7tj2nsH39sq8Zb1Xlkfs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hj1MqfLCCAfMqNbgx8o+R8fP0VP8iwO1Ty5O6mKD94XzK+qAaE9VvHqB+NPtsojjeEWO5swXwHkYEGzhWWEJWr6sT374qGQPnnZ8bL8Dbp/fEiI+p2SYvVMIX0Lh+tN1VsEmofC5nyoab9haQWfD6mg1zjnhgtR+B74mQgx8ZT4= Received: by 10.114.198.1 with SMTP id v1mr2298066waf.1196976730336; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? ( [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k23sm795292waf.2007.12.06.13.32.08 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:32:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47586A53.1010003@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:32:03 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Per Heldal References: <1196900919.7287.64.camel@obelix.sandbu> In-Reply-To: <1196900919.7287.64.camel@obelix.sandbu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-12-06 13:28, Per Heldal wrote: ... > By that I mean that the IETF shouldn't be involved in address > distribution matters unless there's technical reason for it, That is well understood and was written into the IETF/IANA agreement 7 years ago. > and ULA > does IMHO not qualify as such. IMHO ULA does qualify, in fact must qualify, since ULAs have technical impact (see my previous note and Tony Hain's comment on it). To go further, PI should qualify too, since the allocation of PI poses a serious technical threat to the scaling of the routing system. 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------=_NextPart_000_6D73D_01C8385C.2F1AA080-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 19:03:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QgZ-0007Ly-VL; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:19 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QgY-0007Ls-Il for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:18 -0500 Received: from out3.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QgY-0006xi-5I for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:18 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D4B6BA59; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:17 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: oC+B2Ol5Nnu30P8vmKUjA8POoMYQW0xt9fowqf1q/Pa+ 1196985793 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (cs-tor.bu.edu [128.197.11.30]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B3E11511; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Per Heldal To: Brian E Carpenter In-Reply-To: <47586A53.1010003@gmail.com> References: <1196900919.7287.64.camel@obelix.sandbu> <47586A53.1010003@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:02:40 +0100 Message-Id: <1196985760.7287.137.camel@obelix.sandbu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Stupid ULA discussion X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 10:32 +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 2007-12-06 13:28, Per Heldal wrote: > > and ULA > > does IMHO not qualify as such. > > IMHO ULA does qualify, in fact must qualify, since ULAs > have technical impact (see my previous note and Tony Hain's > comment on it). > I still consider it more of an operational issue than a technical one. It's naive to think that every standard can be made such that there are no limits. Users, operators and vendors have to be able to deal with it. You wrote: >Another way to say it is that there is a default expectation >that ULAs will be filtered and that PI prefixes will be >routed. That's a good enough rationale for having them in >separate parts of the address space - a ULA being routed >or a PI prefix being filtered are both things that should >raise an operational flag, and that will be easier if they're >distinguishable at a glance. This doesn't make it an IETF issue. No policy-making body worthy of operating in this field would be short of people who understand this issue. As a comment to your statement Tony wrote: >Actually there is, because the public network operator community >-thinks- they know what the important/easy issues are for enterprise >network operators. Never mind that they have no real clue about how >difficult it is to carve up portions of an otherwise aggregated space >and keep that correct at all instances over an extended period of time. >Clear separation is a great simplifier, and should be good enough, but >repetition of this conversation by people that want nothing more than >to tell others how to run their network shows it is not. This assumes that policy-making organisations are dictated by network operators. That is simply false. I don't intend to start a discussion of which policy-making body is more democratic. It is however relevant to mention that the organisations in the ASO represent a combination of individuals, SMBs, large enterprises, academic communities and network operators. Governments and national regulators have also started to pay attention and take part in the processes in recent years. > To go further, PI should qualify too, since the allocation of > PI poses a serious technical threat to the scaling of the > routing system. As does an explosive growth in PA blocks being assigned, new TE schemes causing massive fragmentation, and a number of other things. If IETF needs detailed control of the routing table's size, you have to address those policy-issues too. For the record; I don't oppose any particular definition of ULA. I just don't want them as IETF standards. It's dangerous to generalise, but standards are often hard-coded or even implemented in silicon, while policies at best form a base for default configurations. Regardless of where the decision is made it'll eventually end up as an entry in IANA's list of allocated address-ranges. Any of a number of suggested methods for an id/locator-split has the potential of solving the scalability issue -- at least for edge networks. That'll largely take care of PI, and even the dreaded ULA-C(G) may then be routed globally with no impact on the DFZ should anyone feel like doing so. //per -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From KennethceremoniousGarcia@deccanherald.com Thu Dec 06 23:11:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0UYH-0001U1-OY; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:11:01 -0500 Received: from pool-71-126-228-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net ([71.126.228.129] helo=robin) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0UYG-0003wY-My; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:11:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host70355916.deccanherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id HHaFHojO79.607612.yD2.HZA.5348657416300 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:10:52 +0500 Message-ID: <9d3901c83887$2c49e5c0$0300000a@robin> From: "Steven Jones" To: , =20

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Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZJ4-0001TE-TS; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:15:38 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZJ2-0001Pe-RH for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:15:36 -0500 Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ZJ0-0001yN-HW for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:15:36 -0500 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JSO00A109OPT7@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:14:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JSO004B59OOUZ@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:14:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from sandeep71635 ([10.18.5.59]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JSO00IRQ9ON5H@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:14:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:44:47 +0530 From: Sandeep P A In-reply-to: <47584B6C.8000605@hp.com> To: 'Vlad Yasevich' Message-id: <001501c838b1$9da82b30$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acg4PQSECBB1OMLMSaWjc0UQgkn8nwAWfnWw X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Vlad, Thanks for immediate reply. What I understood from it is given below. Please confirm the same. Router Discovery fails when no default router is found (NO VALID RA WITH NON-ZERO LIFETIME IS RECEIVED). Host assumes that there is no router in the network for the purpose of autoconfiguration and tries to check for stateful ways to get an address for itself When NO VALID RA IS RECEIVED. Thanks & Regards, Sandeep **************************************************************************** **************************** This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! -----Original Message----- From: Vlad Yasevich [mailto:vladislav.yasevich@hp.com] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 00:50 To: Sandeep.P A Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration Sandeep.P A wrote: > Hi, > > * * > > *Query :* > > /If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives > "no/ > > /*Router Advertisements"* after having waited > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY/ > > Here "no *Router Advertisements"** *Is it means, RA with Non-zero > lifetime or RA with zero lifetime ? > Neither. 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C838F0.A4775690-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 10:03:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ejK-0002NR-S1; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:03:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ejJ-0002ND-Lw for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:03:05 -0500 Received: from g5t0006.atlanta.hp.com ([15.192.0.43]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ejI-0000rO-5E for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:03:05 -0500 Received: from g5t0006.atlanta.hp.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by receive-from-antispam-filter (Postfix) with SMTP id AC238C0F6; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:02:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1.fc.hp.com (smtp.fc.hp.com [15.15.136.127]) by g5t0006.atlanta.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBE3C120; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [16.116.97.23] (galen.zko.hp.com [16.116.97.23]) by smtp1.fc.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267FD1DE181; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4759608D.2010505@hp.com> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:02:37 -0500 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sandeep P A References: <001501c838b1$9da82b30$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <001501c838b1$9da82b30$3b05120a@china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Sandeep Sandeep P A wrote: > Hi Vlad, > > Thanks for immediate reply. > What I understood from it is given below. Please confirm the same. > > Router Discovery fails when no default router is found (NO VALID RA WITH > NON-ZERO LIFETIME IS RECEIVED). No, router discovery fails when you don't receive any RAs. > > Host assumes that there is no router in the network for the purpose of > autoconfiguration and tries to check for stateful ways to get an address for > itself When NO VALID RA IS RECEIVED. Yes. -vlad > > > Thanks & Regards, > Sandeep > **************************************************************************** > **************************** > This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, > which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed > above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, > but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or > dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vlad Yasevich [mailto:vladislav.yasevich@hp.com] > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 00:50 > To: Sandeep.P A > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: IPv6 ND stateful address autoconfiguration > > Sandeep.P A wrote: >> Hi, >> >> * * >> >> *Query :* >> >> /If a host sends MAX_RTR_SOLICITATIONS solicitations, and receives >> "no/ >> >> /*Router Advertisements"* after having waited >> MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY/ >> >> Here "no *Router Advertisements"** *Is it means, RA with Non-zero >> lifetime or RA with zero lifetime ? >> > > Neither. 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The bug was also seen when the host was asked to do SLAAC. Since neither, I, you, nor Erik have access to this host's source code, we can never tell for certain what caused the host to issue NS for address resolution when the router DID NOT signal on-link to the host. I do agree we found multiple bugs in the host's IPv6 implementation and that is what has caused us to some rules in section 2 of our on-and-off-link draft. Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Droms (rdroms)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:27 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Erik Nordmark; IPV6 List Mailing; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it seems the host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation carried over IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix information to a host as a side effect of address assignment to interfaces. In IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for announcing prefix information, so no prefix state should be inferred from address assignment. In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in RFC 4861, as the host has no information about on-link status of a prefix if there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should send any outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the host has not received a PIO to the default router. - Ralph On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Erik, > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the aggregation router. =20 > The > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was NOT signaling > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic forwarding. > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix Information > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even covered by the > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, especially > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to describe on-link. > > I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >> Suresh, >> >> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new >> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, >> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below >> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > Erik > >> >> Hemant >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM >> To: ipv6@ietf.org >> Subject: Off-link and on-link >> >> Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, >> I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is >> necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. =20 >> Let's > >> say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48 >> is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How >> would it go about describing this? I see two ways >> >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses = >> not > >> on the /64 >> b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link >> flag)=3D0 >> >> I see b) as being more efficient than a) >> >> P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >> >> Cheers >> Suresh >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From JulianasetscrewJack@foxnews.com Sun Dec 09 16:31:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1Tjs-0004S2-P0 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:31:04 -0500 Received: from 82.158.113.159.dyn.user.ono.com ([82.158.113.159] helo=sn118493480312) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1Tjs-0005WT-9i for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:31:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host14524464.foxnews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id tZqA6ZV800.827793.tI8.7Xb.5379980685712 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:30:19 -0100 Message-ID: <205b901c83aaa$c4e19ab0$9f719e52@SN118493480312> From: "Madge Doty" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:30:19 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_205B5_01C83AAA.C4E19AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_205B5_01C83AAA.C4E19AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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I did explain what an aggregation router was when we met face to face at IETF. If you had read our drafts, that was one way to learn about properties of an aggregation router wrt to ND. It was unfortunate, neither you or Hesham had read our drafts when folks like Jinmei Tatuya, Alain Durand, Jari, and Vlad have.=20 Anyhow, RFC 4388 mentions an access concentrator. When this concentrator supports routing, the device is an aggregation router. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:29 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Suresh, >=20 > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. Without a new=20 > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note,=20 > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below=20 > cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? Erik >=20 > Hemant >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > To: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Off-link and on-link >=20 > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is=20 > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario where the=20 > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. Let's > say a router wants to signal to the clients that 2001:dead:beef::/48=20 > is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is off-link. How=20 > would it go about describing this? I see two ways >=20 > a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all addresses = not > on the /64 > b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link=20 > flag)=3D0 >=20 > I see b) as being more efficient than a) >=20 > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, just possible. >=20 > Cheers > Suresh >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:12:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2W4G-0006fO-PE; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:24 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2W4E-0006dW-V0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:23 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2W4E-0007BD-5Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:22 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 13:12:21 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBCICLa8004474; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:21 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBCIBxZc019287; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:12:17 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:14 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:12:13 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3iD9G3iCzO2UoT0CSK1KKTcWCTAACV3UgAAT/DRABUBmjQA== References: From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Hesham Soliman" , "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 18:12:14.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[85B38E10:01C83CEA] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6167; t=1197483141; x=1198347141; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hesham=20Soliman=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=wD34oMcL9ZboqPNVcL3KuEVPktLV+GIlcRq53lr8qls=; b=gNqAmIq+OG3eSoRXQby5bAPaaysqgklcVa3u/ajk1pp5cdZTR5mWIODFL8 c54HDLki+7OZ0CIYwuH53urNnMOgcmKp+vAxyQL3Uizb7xrdd7cXClOQlgO4 EaOqein6I4; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham, This is what you have said below that I have put inside double quotes: "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link." My response to this statement is below. I have snipped text from RFC 4861 below (within square brackets) [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option Narten, et al. Standards Track [Page 54] =20 RFC 4861 Neighbor Discovery in IPv6 September 2007 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] The text from RFC is saying the receiver of such an RA cannot assume addresses covered by the prefix are off-link while your statement above says cannot assume on-link.=20 Now, if I go by this text in the RFC, I as a host WILL NOT send traffic to the default router because I cannot assume off-link.=20 Hemant =20 -----Original Message----- From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:21 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the community > didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. > > How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. As for the > off-link suggestion you make below for AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse, > folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. > > [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]":=20 > > "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are > off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]."] > > Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC > 4861. This text is not clear. =3D> I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly my explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There is no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the consequence of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to the default router. The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So if all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L flag is clear. In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets to the default router.=20 If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I don't know how to make it any clearer.=20 Hesham > > Thanks. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as > multi-link router. > > FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that > using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have > been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never > send any redirects. > > > Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? > > By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the > router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting > AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. > > If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you > should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I > can help. > > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation router.=20 > > The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic > forwarding. > > That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. > Have you contacted the host vendor? > > > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to > describe on-link. > > It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no redirects) = > then the host > will send to a default router. >=20 > Erik > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:23:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2WEm-0005mm-GU; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2WEk-0005mh-V4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:15 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2WEk-0007UH-Am for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:14 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 13:23:14 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBCINE3c027809; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:14 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBCIN1ZM023113; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:23:13 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:04 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <475717D6.2070107@sun.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3hbmVsMA+LgrMQSu7FSPir30H3AFYve1w References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <475707EB.7040608@sun.com> <475717D6.2070107@sun.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 18:23:04.0104 (UTC) FILETIME=[09009280:01C83CEC] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3611; t=1197483794; x=1198347794; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3. 4=20text=20that=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=IFTU+CXe+BL09aS4CuwjsSXKNeDeH1+kOjfgszFJu6c=; b=Ys2e+pPFc4Kjy0FAo+qi4SU7BA8BWwaCRT/1+JoG9PZ9osLE78SWS9tAho 5GTz0/JeVOB1i2lW635DO7a+mXhkXGUtVSobPjXuUqMjpNe1UyHgVJdHu/N9 6yT1k8LZCu; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Erik, What you explained below is not very obvious from reading the paragraph. Since none of the authors of RFC 4861 commented on our drafts since June 2007 and counting, I decided to ping the Chairs and AD with the same paragraph. In that private email exchange, one person also did not understand this paragraph as you have explained. Further the new rephrased sentence that you propose is already along the lines of what we have said in tighter text in our on-and-off-link draft - for example see the last paragraph of section 2.1 of our on-and-off-link draft. In 4861, in a lot of places there is text that says, "send all traffic to default router" when the text should say "send all non-link-local traffic to default router". If folks read our on-and-off-link draft, there are a lot of fixes like this over 4861 that we had done.=20 Further, DHCPv6 in RFC 3315, and ND RFCs in 4861 and 4862 are collectively very lengthy documents. There is no document that defines how are DHCPv6 and ND in a IPv6 router and DHCPv6 server environment are supposed to behave or what is the boundary between DHCPv6 and the IPv6 router sending RA. We have summarized how DHCPv6 and ND interface with each other in our drafts. Such IPv6 info is useful to developers coming from an IPv4 world.=20 On a separate note, folks also need to reply to the mailer if our ND implementation drafts can be accepted as a work item in 6man. Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:28 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Erik, >=20 > I appreciate the quick reply. OK, here is an explanation with=20 > non-colored text. The text snipped below for 6.3.4 is as follows to=20 > please note first the text in double quotes: >=20 > [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option with the on-link flag > set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination=20 > and "MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the=20 > prefix are off-link."] So far we are talking about the semantics of a single prefix information option. > After the above text in the para the para says the following a little > later: >=20 > [The default behavior (see Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an=20 > address for which no information is known about the on-link status of=20 > the address is to forward the packet to a default router;] And this talks about a particular destination address, looking at all of the prefix list. Thus you could rephrase the above sentence as When sending a packet to a destination and there is no matching prefix list entry, and no matching redirect entry, the packet is sent to a default router. > I am saying the para immediately above contradicts the text in quotes=20 > because the quoted text says off link MUST NOT be interpreted but then > later the same section says "send data to default router". I interpret > "sending data to default router" as signaling off-link behavior. They are not in conflict, since the first is about a particular prefix information option, and the second is about the system as a whole. > As for the R bit, what if the router has implemented ONLY RFC 4861. I=20 > don't want to bring RFC 4775 into the discussion just yet. I was merely trying to explain the motivation for L=3D0 being a no-op. Erik -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 15:10:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Xtr-0004Wj-Pd; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Xtq-0004Wb-QH for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:46 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Xto-0000ME-PF for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:46 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 15:09:42 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBCK9gkQ022218; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:42 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBCK9WZO005381; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:09:33 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:14 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:12 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3iD9G3iCzO2UoT0CSK1KKTcWCTAACV3UgAAT/DRABUBmjQAAEz2Ug References: From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" , "Hesham Soliman" , "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 20:09:14.0219 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDE2FBB0:01C83CFA] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7549; t=1197490182; x=1198354182; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Hesham=20Soliman=22=20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Erik=20N ordmark=22=20; bh=zzkKh0aFLZDE5Ou6N7YPRap3Qh21QtTSdIt/tobmKRY=; b=GVIZzuq4nZt75N4tCVcGynzkZCNrmyJeNtGT3aiLrTYEO8noB+EfWY7z55 uwF+5lt3Y+d4PJQfD90Ce4sP9zFspmYRxUa9zgi+6zo+ie3/4RrbYvUZro9X DVjtuC+VGk; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ded6070f7eed56e10c4f4d0d5043d9c7 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org BTW Hesham, I understand what the behavior is for on-link and off-link; L=3D0 is a no-op and if the prefix exists in prefixList, the L-bit of the prefix remains unchanged; only a L=3D1 with Valid Lifetime =3D 0 signals = cancels an existing on-link prefix. I sent this email to only show that text can be confusing in RFC 4861. As Josh Littlefield also said the other day, the language is not crystal clear. We wanted clearer text that said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. You all can read rest of this text. We want to have our draft clarify all such text - please read it. We do clarify a lot more issues in our draft. Do also note our on-and-off-link draft is on Standards Track - we are not interested in changing its nature to Informational because our draft has too many MUST's that we'd like to keep. Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Hemant Singh (shemant)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:12 PM To: Hesham Soliman; Erik Nordmark Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link Hesham, This is what you have said below that I have put inside double quotes: "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link." My response to this statement is below. I have snipped text from RFC 4861 below (within square brackets) [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option Narten, et al. Standards Track [Page 54] =20 RFC 4861 Neighbor Discovery in IPv6 September 2007 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] The text from RFC is saying the receiver of such an RA cannot assume addresses covered by the prefix are off-link while your statement above says cannot assume on-link.=20 Now, if I go by this text in the RFC, I as a host WILL NOT send traffic to the default router because I cannot assume off-link.=20 Hemant =20 -----Original Message----- From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:21 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the community > didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. > > How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. As for the > off-link suggestion you make below for AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse, > folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. > > [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]":=20 > > "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are > off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF]."] > > Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC > 4861. This text is not clear. =3D> I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly my explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There is no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the consequence of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to the default router. The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So if all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L flag is clear. In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets to the default router.=20 If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I don't know how to make it any clearer.=20 Hesham > > Thanks. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what IETF calls as > multi-link router. > > FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that > using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have > been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never > send any redirects. > > > Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? > > By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the > router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting > AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. > > If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you > should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I > can help. > > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation router.=20 > > The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic > forwarding. > > That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. > Have you contacted the host vendor? > > > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to > describe on-link. > > It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no redirects) = > then the host > will send to a default router. >=20 > Erik > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 15:17:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Y1H-0004eq-74; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Y1F-0004el-Oq for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:25 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Y1F-0000Z3-2H for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:25 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 15:17:24 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBCKHODn026062; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:24 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBCKGqZW008158; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:17:20 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:14 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3hbZgL4VtfoeyQMuqk0eaN+9iIgACL5wwAVshMiA= References: From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Hesham Soliman" , "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2007 20:17:14.0700 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC4690C0:01C83CFB] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5928; t=1197490644; x=1198354644; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hesham=20Soliman=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Ralph=20Droms=20(rdroms)=22=20 ; bh=DHHKUAeeyq5omieib4jFI6jcITG63yr2i4a1HZCFWd0=; b=le7cu6aY13TE+kU5NgdaF/2dIJjTwsVrCNtGjXe60tZOE9iAlAauUoQb2j JlQ7ZV3FiZ+G9xk6AHkF826LNGOgMASgNYEBMCmS28WiYJnI2z92Vx3V49YM wLgLO/5cU8; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham, Since you said it's good to highlight such DHCPv6 facts to implementations, see our 2nd draft. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-prob lems-00.txt where we have highlighted such implementation issues. See section 2.3 of this draft. Further, bullet 2 in section 2 of our on-and-off-link draft highlight this DHCPv6 client mistake in a rule. =20 Could we get a rough consensus if the above draft should be a work item of 6man? Folks have to read the draft first. So far only Jinmei and Vlad have reviewed the implementation draft.=20 We can debate the on-and-off-link draft separately. Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:32 PM To: Ralph Droms (rdroms); Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: 'Erik Nordmark'; 'IPV6 List Mailing'; 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it > seems the > host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address > assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation > carried over > IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix > information > to a host as a side effect of address assignment to interfaces. In > IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for announcing prefix > information, so no prefix state should be inferred from address > assignment. =3D> Exactly. This makes sense, and it's good to highlight that to implementations, I just don't think this behaviour is a result of correct reading of the spec. > > In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in > RFC 4861, > as the host has no information about on-link status of a prefix if > there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should > send any > outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the host has > not received a PIO to the default router. =3D> Agreed. That's the default behaviour. Hesham > > - Ralph > > > On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > > Erik, > > > > As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation router. =20 > > The > > host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT signaling > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for traffic > forwarding. > > The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > Information > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious details to > describe on-link. > > > > I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. > > > > Hemant > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > >> Suresh, > >> > >> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag.=20 > Without a new > >> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, > >> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > >> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > > > Erik > > > >> > >> Hemant > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > >> To: ipv6@ietf.org > >> Subject: Off-link and on-link > >> > >> Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > >> I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is > >> necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a > scenario where the > >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very well. =20 > >> Let's > > > >> say a router wants to signal to the clients that > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > >> is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is > off-link. How > >> would it go about describing this? I see two ways > >> > >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects for all > addresses > >> not > > > >> on the /64 > >> b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > >> flag)=3D0 = > >> > >> I see b) as being more efficient than a) > >> > >> P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Suresh > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests:=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests:=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests:=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From RustyanteGallegos@eu2007.de Wed Dec 12 17:41:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2aGw-0003T0-Q5 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:41:46 -0500 Received: from [200.121.142.89] (helo=pc6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2aGw-0007Gh-0H for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:41:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host61739263.eu2007.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id UiqRlK1S04.187785.fKH.d8C.3756391598138 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:40:50 +0500 Message-ID: <0a2b01c83d10$2b694730$1701a8c0@PC6> From: "Ned Orr" To: Subject: Your life Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:40:50 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A27_01C83D10.2B694730" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A27_01C83D10.2B694730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_0A27_01C83D10.2B694730-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 18:06:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2aed-0006i8-Q0; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:06:15 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2aeV-0006RX-SX; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:06:07 -0500 Received: from bosco.isi.edu ([128.9.168.207]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2aeP-0007ym-RY; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:06:07 -0500 Received: by bosco.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 70) id 8E7D8FF201; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:06:01 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20071212230601.8E7D8FF201@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:06:01 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Score: -15.0 (---------------) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 5095 on Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5095 Title: Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 Author: J. Abley, P. Savola, G. Neville-Neil Status: Standards Track Date: December 2007 Mailbox: jabley@ca.afilias.info, psavola@funet.fi, gnn@neville-neil.com Pages: 7 Characters: 13423 Updates: RFC2460, RFC4294 See-Also: I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5095.txt The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to achieve traffic amplification over a remote path for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in light of this security concern. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 18:58:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2bSw-0001SQ-NU; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:58:14 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2bSv-0001S6-46 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:58:13 -0500 Received: from mx06.syd.iprimus.net.au ([210.50.76.235]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2bSr-0001Ck-Mc for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:58:10 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAGIEYEfTG2yO/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,159,1196600400"; d="scan'208";a="83584189" Received: from 142.001.vod.mel.iprimus.net.au (HELO PC20005) ([211.27.108.142]) by smtp06.syd.iprimus.net.au with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 10:58:02 +1100 From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Hemant Singh \(shemant\)'" , "'Erik Nordmark'" Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:57:47 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-index: Acg3fXiGn+wDsA8uTWiKkzepTlwAZAFaefxgAA7rFAA= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > I am getting back to replying to some emails that were sent > in response > to our drafts. I did explain what an aggregation router was > when we met > face to face at IETF. If you had read our drafts, that was one way to > learn about properties of an aggregation router wrt to ND. It was > unfortunate, neither you or Hesham had read our drafts when => Would you please not attribute things to me? I did read the draft before I commented in the meeting. I don't know why you keep repeating this. Hesham > folks like > Jinmei Tatuya, Alain Durand, Jari, and Vlad have. > > Anyhow, RFC 4388 mentions an access concentrator. When this > concentrator > supports routing, the device is an aggregation router. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:29 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > Suresh, > > > > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. > Without a new > > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, > > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > > cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? > > Erik > > > > > Hemant > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > > To: ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Off-link and on-link > > > > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is > > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario > where the > > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very > well. Let's > > > say a router wants to signal to the clients that > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > > is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is > off-link. How > > would it go about describing this? I see two ways > > > > a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects for all > addresses not > > > on the /64 > > b) Advertise the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > > flag)=0 > > > > I see b) as being more efficient than a) > > > > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. > > > > Cheers > > Suresh > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From prashant7@4m-milano.com Wed Dec 12 19:41:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2c8N-00076D-5c for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:41:03 -0500 Received: from [217.8.71.242] (helo=a217-71-242.stars.net.sa) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2c8M-0002y0-FS for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:41:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c83d20$03454c67$bd49a5a6@bebnintv> From: "hillary bishop" To: Subject: have fun and WIN REAL money! 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C83D47.42BC7B00-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 21:19:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2df2-0003iT-AM; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:52 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2dez-0003iG-Sl for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:49 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2dez-00051A-2j for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:49 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 21:18:48 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBD2ImAa011901; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:48 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBD2ImZI027320; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:18:48 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:48 -0500 Received: from [10.224.19.109] ([10.86.240.189]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:46 -0500 Message-Id: From: Ralph Droms To: Hemant Singh (shemant) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:18:45 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 02:18:47.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E2F5400:01C83D2E] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6763; t=1197512328; x=1198376328; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=20; bh=9DP36ccnMa8SN0J2b4xwT+/ZSBo3D++IoHSkeLYnd2w=; b=dv28wXxUQn04d/nMRGi+jxN81yafTIzihDRqIGNo/cmvn+KmCMwbEI1MGn vrVrwTl8ideGbG1229CxNg2hs2gCMyZj0TVnZiSRkNHRovXDidpL56DeZXav 5EVTfd6sM/; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan , Ralph Droms Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant - I've reviewed this version of your draft as well as (as you know) earlier versions. I don't have a clear preference about whether or not to take this draft on as a WG work item. It would be helpful to have a record of these implementation problems. However, my understanding is that each of problems 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 (and I think 2.1 and 2.3 are related) has been found once and has been or will be patched. Will the WG want to begin a collection of similar bugs found in other stacks? Is there text in an RFC that can be used as the basis for demonstrating 2.4 is an explicit bug? - Ralph On Dec 12, 2007, at Dec 12, 2007,3:17 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Hesham, > > Since you said it's good to highlight such DHCPv6 facts to > implementations, see our 2nd draft. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-prob > lems-00.txt > > where we have highlighted such implementation issues. See section > 2.3 of > this draft. Further, bullet 2 in section 2 of our on-and-off-link > draft > highlight this DHCPv6 client mistake in a rule. > > Could we get a rough consensus if the above draft should be a work > item > of 6man? Folks have to read the draft first. So far only Jinmei and > Vlad > have reviewed the implementation draft. > > We can debate the on-and-off-link draft separately. > > Thanks. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:32 PM > To: Ralph Droms (rdroms); Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: 'Erik Nordmark'; 'IPV6 List Mailing'; 'Suresh Krishnan' > Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > > >> To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it > seems > the > host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an > address > > assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation > carried > over >> IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix > > information > to a host as a side effect of address assignment to > interfaces. In > IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for > announcing prefix > information, so no prefix state should be > inferred > from address > assignment. > > => Exactly. This makes sense, and it's good to highlight that to > implementations, I just don't think this behaviour is a result of > correct reading of the spec. > >> >> In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in > RFC > 4861, > as the host has no information about on-link status of a > prefix > if > there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host should > > send any > outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for which the > host has > not received a PIO to the default router. > > => Agreed. That's the default behaviour. > > Hesham > >> >> - Ralph >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >> >>> Erik, >>> >>> As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation > router. >>> The >>> host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN >>> network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT > signaling > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for > traffic >> forwarding. >>> The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > > Information > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not > even >> covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of > RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious > details to > describe on-link. >>> >>> I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. >>> >>> Hemant >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > > Sent: > Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > > To: Hemant Singh > (shemant) > >> Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Off-link and > on-link > > > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >>>> Suresh, >>>> >>>> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. >> Without a new >>>> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, >>>> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > >>> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. >>> >>> Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? >>> >>> Erik >>> >>>> >>>> Hemant >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > >> To: > ipv6@ietf.org > >> Subject: Off-link and on-link > >> > >> Hi > Hesham/Dave/Erik, > >> I am not taking a stand on whether an > explicit > off-link flag is > >> necessary/useful or not, but I have > encountered a >> scenario where the > >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does > not work very well. >>>> Let's >>> >>>> say a router wants to signal to the clients that > > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > >> is on-link except for > 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 > that is > off-link. How > >> would it go about describing this? I > see > two ways > >> > >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=0 and send redirects > for all > addresses > >> not > > > >> on the /64 > >> b) > Advertise > the /48 with L=1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > >> flag)=0 > > >> >>>> I see b) as being more efficient than a) > >> > >> P.S: I do not > think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Suresh >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 12 21:30:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2dpn-0004gl-92; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2dpl-0004WE-CN for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:57 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2dpk-0003Q1-63 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:57 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 18:29:55 -0800 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBD2Tt9u025967; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:29:55 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBD2TWCJ023340; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:29:55 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:51 -0500 Received: from [10.224.19.109] ([10.86.240.189]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:50 -0500 Message-Id: <06EFB352-E59B-4C8C-BC37-B6938C5B54B5@cisco.com> From: Ralph Droms To: Hemant Singh (shemant) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:49 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 02:29:50.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[0995B5B0:01C83D30] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7579; t=1197512995; x=1198376995; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20; bh=D71C8mfUXYIL8QNxhZhsuh6YXCx+W6glKuQLs2UObqY=; b=gTBqXQDwCE4XD7zGzQIlOFVfy291qWncRPXuIyhbKkl2BCW/SW5BZugDVk YIjgygf52P+QMwNtNF3EpxgAXFpNyWAnHAOwWaoph079QBLXoOSN0T/Ii0Gt pi7HdNDy3wry4YkghwTwYLfqJtDdnCN0O3h6vNCgBO6MRAJVBDO5w=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e Cc: Erik Nordmark , ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan , Ralph Droms Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hemant - =46rom RFC 4861, I interpret the definition of "prefix list" =20= and the text in section 5.2 to mean that: * if the host has received an RA containing a PIO with L=3D0, it adds that prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to an address from that prefix, the host finds the prefix in its prefix list and delivers the datagram directly to the destination * otherwise, the host will not ever add the prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to an address from that prefix, the host does not find the prefix in its prefix list and delivers the datagram to its default router =14Therefore, I interpret the decision to be "on-link, deliver direct; =20= otherwise, send to default router". The specs are not written to =20 include a rule for an explicit "off-link, send to default router" =20 decision. - Ralph On Dec 12, 2007, at Dec 12, 2007,1:12 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Hesham, > > This is what you have said below that I have put inside double quotes: > > "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume =20= > that > an address derived from this prefix is on-link." > > My response to this statement is below. I have snipped text from RFC > 4861 below (within square brackets) > > [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > > > > Narten, et al. Standards Track [Page =20= > 54] > > RFC 4861 Neighbor Discovery in IPv6 September =20= > 2007 > > > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] > > > The text from RFC is saying the receiver of such an RA cannot assume > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link while your statement =20 > above > says cannot assume on-link. > > Now, if I go by this text in the RFC, I as a host WILL NOT send =20 > traffic > to the default router because I cannot assume off-link. > > Hemant > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:21 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' > Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > > >> I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > > community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the =20 > community > > didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. >> >> How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 > of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. =20= > As > for the > off-link suggestion you make below for AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse,= >> folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be > clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped > below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. >> >> [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > > determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > > (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]": >> >> "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero > conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST =20= > NOT > be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix =20 > are > > off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would > normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by =20 > [ADDRCONF]."] > >> Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC >> 4861. This text is not clear. > > =3D> I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly = my > explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There is > no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, > clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an > address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the consequence > of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to =20= > the > default router. > The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So if > all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution > and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L > flag is clear. > In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets to > the default router. > > If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I =20 > don't > know how to make it any clearer. > > Hesham > >> >> Thanks. >> >> Hemant >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: > Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-=20 > link >>> Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >>> Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC > does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > > aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data > forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what > IETF calls as > multi-link router. >> >> FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that >> using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have >> been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never >> send any redirects. >> >>> Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure > this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? >> >> By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the >> router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting >> AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. >> >> If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you >> should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I >> can help. >> >>> As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation > router. >>> The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > > Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA > was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as > on-link for traffic > forwarding. >> >> That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. >> Have you contacted the host vendor? >> >>> The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > > Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not > even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section > 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much > copious details to > describe on-link. >> >> It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > > (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no =20 > redirects) > > then the host > will send to a default router. >> >> Erik >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mercyOelsner@josepenala.com Wed Dec 12 23:22:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2fb2-0005EP-5Q for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:22:52 -0500 Received: from [200.220.195.20] (helo=[200.220.195.20]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2fb1-0007Iq-Gj for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:22:52 -0500 Received: from gbas-22 ([137.122.36.86]:11380 "EHLO gbas-22" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [200.220.195.20] with ESMTP id S22XTJTWOXYBDISL (ORCPT ); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:25:15 -0300 Message-ID: <000c01c83d48$74d895f0$14c3dcc8@gbas22> From: "mercy Oelsner" To: Subject: diocotua Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:24:38 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83D2F.4F8B5DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83D2F.4F8B5DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable regards ipngwg-archive We are would to offer you high quality medical products at the best cost = in the market. http://streetreceive.com mercy Oelsner ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83D2F.4F8B5DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
regards ipngwg-archive
We are would to offer you high quality medical = products=20 at the best cost in the market.
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mercy Oelsner
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83D2F.4F8B5DF0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 03:37:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2jYH-0007N0-3B; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2jYF-0007Mo-Gx for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:15 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2jYE-0004Ay-Di for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:15 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 03:36:15 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBD8aEBF003579; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:14 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBD8aDa8001853; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:36:13 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.15]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:13 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB2105C84098@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <06EFB352-E59B-4C8C-BC37-B6938C5B54B5@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg9MDDUYk7b8XIGT6eDnQjC6p08PgAMCOJQ From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" , "Hemant Singh (shemant)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 08:36:13.0795 (UTC) FILETIME=[386F8B30:01C83D63] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=10005; t=1197534974; x=1198398974; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=volz@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Bernie=20Volz=20(volz)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Ralph=20Droms=20(rdroms)=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22= 20; bh=s2j8mR2fjgXJaraJTHbEOnq5T9TDikLYrAiQ9bhV1gQ=; b=MMssexr4JktQhq4mF9neBMI/HomG71xfYRnmnrw5RrmuhRkUAK5DYsKTcq 5isJuWtpCBL7l/u72FLagS0DuwApM3mtnQnuKKDIBEBwzRhRvYOrAEMcSLag XHCgOZuYHg; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=volz@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 Cc: Erik Nordmark , ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org * if the host has received an RA containing a PIO with L=3D0, it adds that prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to I think you meant L=3D1 as the text in 6.3.4. Processing Received Router Advertisements only gives explicit instructions to the host for PIOs where L=3D1. It has NO instructions as to what the host does with a PIO with L=3D0. So, one would assume that they are ignored (and thus fairly useless to be sent by a router at least in terms of on-link/not-on-link). In section 5.2, the text is very clear as to what a host does: Next-hop determination for a given unicast destination operates as follows. The sender performs a longest prefix match against the Prefix List to determine whether the packet's destination is on- or off-link. If the destination is on-link, the next-hop address is the same as the packet's destination address. Otherwise, the sender selects a router from the Default Router List (following the rules described in Section 6.3.6). Here this "longest prefix match" means that the PIO w/L=3D0 would not be on the Prefix List (per the 6.3.4 text which lacks any instructions about doing anything with these PIOs) and hence if there wasn't another match, the prefix would be assumed as being "off-link". And, RFC 4861 also clearly defines that the "Prefix List" only contains on-link prefixes: Prefix List - A list of the prefixes that define a set of addresses that are on-link. Prefix List entries are created from information received in Router Advertisements. ... This is actually very interesting as it clearly implies that PIO w/L=3D0 are ignored (in terms of the Prefix List). And, if the PIO has L=3D0 and A=3D0 (considering RFC 4861 & 4862), the router is just wasting network bandwidth and host processing time by sending that PIO. - Bernie -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Droms (rdroms)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:30 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Erik Nordmark; ipv6@ietf.org; Suresh Krishnan; Ralph Droms (rdroms) Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant - From RFC 4861, I interpret the definition of "prefix list" =20 and the text in section 5.2 to mean that: * if the host has received an RA containing a PIO with L=3D0, it adds that prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to an address from that prefix, the host finds the prefix in its prefix list and delivers the datagram directly to the destination * otherwise, the host will not ever add the prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to an address from that prefix, the host does not find the prefix in its prefix list and delivers the datagram to its default router =14Therefore, I interpret the decision to be "on-link, deliver direct; =20 otherwise, send to default router". The specs are not written to =20 include a rule for an explicit "off-link, send to default router" =20 decision. - Ralph On Dec 12, 2007, at Dec 12, 2007,1:12 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Hesham, > > This is what you have said below that I have put inside double quotes: > > "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume =20 > that > an address derived from this prefix is on-link." > > My response to this statement is below. I have snipped text from RFC > 4861 below (within square brackets) > > [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option > > > > Narten, et al. Standards Track [Page =20 > 54] > > RFC 4861 Neighbor Discovery in IPv6 September =20 > 2007 > > > with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning > on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] > > > The text from RFC is saying the receiver of such an RA cannot assume > addresses covered by the prefix are off-link while your statement =20 > above > says cannot assume on-link. > > Now, if I go by this text in the RFC, I as a host WILL NOT send =20 > traffic > to the default router because I cannot assume off-link. > > Hemant > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:21 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' > Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > > >> I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > > community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the =20 > community > > didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. >> >> How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 > of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. =20 > As > for the > off-link suggestion you make below for = AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse, >> folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be > clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped > below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. >> >> [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > > determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > > (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]": >> >> "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero > conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST =20 > NOT > be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix =20 > are > > off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would > normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by =20 > [ADDRCONF]."] > >> Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from RFC >> 4861. This text is not clear. > > =3D> I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly = my > explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There is > no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, > clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an > address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the consequence > of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to =20 > the > default router. > The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So if > all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution > and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L > flag is clear. > In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets to > the default router. > > If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I =20 > don't > know how to make it any clearer. > > Hesham > >> >> Thanks. >> >> Hemant >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: > Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-=20 > link >>> Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >>> Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC > does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > > aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data > forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what > IETF calls as > multi-link router. >> >> FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that >> using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have >> been better to talk about a router which has been configured to never >> send any redirects. >> >>> Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure > this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? >> >> By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that the >> router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting >> AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. >> >> If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product you >> should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using OpenSolaris I >> can help. >> >>> As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation > router. >>> The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > > Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA > was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as > on-link for traffic > forwarding. >> >> That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. >> Have you contacted the host vendor? >> >>> The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > > Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not > even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section > 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much > copious details to > describe on-link. >> >> It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > > (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no =20 > redirects) > > then the host > will send to a default router. >> >> Erik >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From MarshallamphibologySutton@bankerstrust.com Thu Dec 13 07:26:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2n8x-0007dn-Ew; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:26:23 -0500 Received: from pool-72-94-36-49.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([72.94.36.49] helo=ncs5pxom5jlr51) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2n8x-0001sH-7L; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:26:23 -0500 Received: from aleph by bankerstrust.com with SMTP id Fly7unGcK5 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:26:18 +0500 From: "Kirk Castro" To: Cc: , Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ol4-0000Wf-GG; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ol2-0000V8-Ds for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:48 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2okx-0003AX-AP for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:48 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 09:09:42 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBDE9hD5007199; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:43 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBDE9Rac013164; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:09:43 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:34 -0500 Received: from [172.27.172.81] ([10.86.240.246]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:33 -0500 Message-Id: From: Ralph Droms To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" In-Reply-To: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB2105C84098@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:31 -0500 References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB2105C84098@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 14:09:33.0831 (UTC) FILETIME=[C962D970:01C83D91] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=10540; t=1197554983; x=1198418983; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Bernie=20Volz=20(volz)=22=20; bh=Da5D/BYZdwUACOYbxP+EHyMEKRzTtFH2dYqS1lS/BVY=; b=TInZEaWBVEAs4L4KF0tyDlCMtwLpB78epsRUClfgbvDifoy2mmDez9lNIX NOOZPQpkOvuGcg5KcgUf0FDbCQacIHlhyFumkKfstFmJXbPHlLXVc5n3i+lQ iBe97moUfp; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 40161b1d86420e0807d771943d981d25 Cc: Erik Nordmark , ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan , Ralph Droms Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Bernie - yes, "L=3D0" is a typo and should have read "L=3D1". - Ralph On Dec 13, 2007, at Dec 13, 2007,3:36 AM, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > * if the host has received an RA containing a PIO with L=3D0, it > adds that prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to > > I think you meant L=3D1 as the text in 6.3.4. Processing Received = Router > Advertisements only gives explicit instructions to the host for PIOs > where L=3D1. It has NO instructions as to what the host does with a = PIO > with L=3D0. So, one would assume that they are ignored (and thus = fairly > useless to be sent by a router at least in terms of > on-link/not-on-link). > > In section 5.2, the text is very clear as to what a host does: > > Next-hop determination for a given unicast destination operates as > follows. The sender performs a longest prefix match against the > Prefix List to determine whether the packet's destination is on- or > off-link. If the destination is on-link, the next-hop address is =20= > the > same as the packet's destination address. Otherwise, the sender > selects a router from the Default Router List (following the rules > described in Section 6.3.6). > > Here this "longest prefix match" means that the PIO w/L=3D0 would not = be > on the Prefix List (per the 6.3.4 text which lacks any instructions > about doing anything with these PIOs) and hence if there wasn't =20 > another > match, the prefix would be assumed as being "off-link". > > And, RFC 4861 also clearly defines that the "Prefix List" only =20 > contains > on-link prefixes: > > Prefix List - A list of the prefixes that define a set of > addresses that are on-link. Prefix List entries > are created from information received in Router > Advertisements. ... > > This is actually very interesting as it clearly implies that PIO w/L=3D0= > are ignored (in terms of the Prefix List). And, if the PIO has L=3D0 = and > A=3D0 (considering RFC 4861 & 4862), the router is just wasting = network > bandwidth and host processing time by sending that PIO. > > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Droms (rdroms) > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:30 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Erik Nordmark; ipv6@ietf.org; Suresh Krishnan; Ralph Droms =20 > (rdroms) > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant - =46rom RFC 4861, I interpret the definition of "prefix list" > and the text in section 5.2 to mean that: > > * if the host has received an RA containing a PIO with L=3D0, it > adds that prefix to its prefix list; when sending a datagram to > an address from that prefix, the host finds the prefix in > its prefix list and delivers the datagram directly to the > destination > * otherwise, the host will not ever add the prefix to its > prefix list; when sending a datagram to an address from that > prefix, the host does not find the prefix in its prefix list > and delivers the datagram to its default router > > =14Therefore, I interpret the decision to be "on-link, deliver direct; > otherwise, send to default router". The specs are not written to > include a rule for an explicit "off-link, send to default router" > decision. > > - Ralph > > On Dec 12, 2007, at Dec 12, 2007,1:12 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) =20 > wrote: > >> Hesham, >> >> This is what you have said below that I have put inside double =20 >> quotes: >> >> "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume >> that >> an address derived from this prefix is on-link." >> >> My response to this statement is below. I have snipped text from RFC >> 4861 below (within square brackets) >> >> [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option >> >> >> >> Narten, et al. Standards Track [Page >> 54] >> >> RFC 4861 Neighbor Discovery in IPv6 September >> 2007 >> >> >> with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning >> on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that >> addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] >> >> >> The text from RFC is saying the receiver of such an RA cannot assume >> addresses covered by the prefix are off-link while your statement >> above >> says cannot assume on-link. >> >> Now, if I go by this text in the RFC, I as a host WILL NOT send >> traffic >> to the default router because I cannot assume off-link. >> >> Hemant >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:21 PM >> To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' >> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' >> Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link >> >> >>> I know how to configure off-link on a router. I was asking the > >> community. At least the people we pinged in the past in the >> community > >> didn't know how or didn't reply including Hesham. >>> >>> How off-link is configured is described in section 2.1, and > 2.2.1 >> of our > draft. Your explanation below for the section 2.1 is fine. >> As >> for the > off-link suggestion you make below for =20 >> AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse, >>> folks might > not agree with you on just setting L-bit in RA to be >> clear > and off-link > is signaled. Here is one reason why. Snipped >> below is text > from section > 2.3 on our draft. >>> >>> [An on-link bit of clear indicates nothing regarding on-link > >> determination. In section 6.3.4 of draft-ietf-ipv6-rfc2461bis-11 > >> (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor > >> Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," March 2007.) [NDbis]": >>> >>> "...a Prefix Information Option with on-link flag set to > zero >> conveys no > information concerning on-link determination and MUST >> NOT >> be > interpreted > to mean that addresses covered by the prefix >> are > >> off-link.... Prefixes > with the on-link flag set to zero would >> normally have the autonomous > flag set and be used by >> [ADDRCONF]."] > >>> Did we miss anything in the interpretation of the text above from =20= >>> RFC >>> 4861. This text is not clear. >> >> =3D> I tried to explain it in the meeting and on the list but clearly = =20 >> my >> explanation is not getting through. Let me have another shot. There =20= >> is >> no flag in 4861 that says that an entire prefix is off-link. Instead, >> clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an >> address derived from this prefix is on-link. So what's the =20 >> consequence >> of this? The consequence is that the host should send all packets to >> the >> default router. >> The same consequence as if the flag says the prefix is off-link. So =20= >> if >> all you want to do is make sure that a host avoids address resolution >> and sends packets straight to the default router then make sure the L >> flag is clear. >> In the absence of the PIO, the default behaviour is to send packets =20= >> to >> the default router. >> >> If none of this is clear please read Bernie's earlier response. I >> don't >> know how to make it any clearer. >> >> Hesham >> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Hemant >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: >> Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:46 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > >> Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on- >> link >>>> Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >>>> Good question, Erik. To the best of my knowledge such an > RFC >> does not > > exist - at least describing total details of an > >> aggregation router - > > like unicast, mcast, and anycast data >> forwarding rules etc. The > > closest I have found in IETF is what >> IETF calls as > multi-link router. >>> >>> FWIW I don't find "multi-link router" in any RFC. My point was that >>> using this undefined term doesn't help clarify things. It would have >>> been better to talk about a router which has been configured to =20 >>> never >>> send any redirects. >>> >>>> Now the question I asked in my presentation. I have to > configure >> this > > aggregation router to signal off-link. How do I do that? >>> >>> By not to configuring it to enable the L flag for any prefix that =20= >>> the >>> router advertized. Abstractly (per RFC 4861) this is done by setting >>> AdvOnLinkFlag=3DFalse. >>> >>> If you have a question on how to do that for a particular product =20= >>> you >>> should ask the vendor of that product. If you are using =20 >>> OpenSolaris I >>> can help. >>> >>>> As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation >> router. >>>> The host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an > >> Ethernet LAN > > network too. An RA from the router was sent where =20= >> RA >> was > NOT signaling > > > on-link and the host still behaved as >> on-link for traffic > forwarding. >>> >>> That is clearly a bug in the host implementation. >>> Have you contacted the host vendor? >>> >>>> The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > >> Information > > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not >> even > covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section >> 2.1 of RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much >> copious details to > describe on-link. >>> >>> It does cover it. If no information is know about an address > >> (which is > this case - no prefix options with L=3D1 and no >> redirects) > >> then the host > will send to a default router. >>> >>> Erik >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 10:08:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2pg5-0006aR-5R; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2pg4-0006aM-BW for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2pg3-0006HW-8a for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 10:08:43 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBDF8hg7019109; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:43 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBDF8gaI000778; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:42 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:35 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:08:34 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg9Ln5rOf4qPjssT+mB/lynbv2d4AAZhQ9A References: From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 15:08:35.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[083E2ED0:01C83D9A] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=10437; t=1197558523; x=1198422523; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Ralph=20Droms=20(rdroms)=22=20; bh=vjBhK8wgzs4ak0n+M0Yhk2ZGXFAKVpwWgTw/+DCRf7A=; b=dwy1TwA454+/Q8jLNa+vEdxkA3oZTS7WvHj/rtjvRM4V0NCMffONlXDOIg Umq6zQYwo3EkePMH0Gz3REbRF74MB+92gL+ckDTr0NdjAZ+S5kndCAWTYbng 8rDXMjZ6RO; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: dd7e0c3fd18d19cffdd4de99a114001d Cc: Erik Nordmark , IPV6 List Mailing , Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Ralph, Vendors seem to have been testing IPv6 with only on-link prefixes including our own company in Cisco. Soon as we guys in Cisco began testing IPv6 in off-link mode, bugs in hosts began showing up. These off-link tests don't even exist in TAHI IPv6 host tests but TAHI has certified hosts as IPV6 ready :-). If not for any other reason, 6man should document these bugs in the format of RFC 2525 and let TAHI write up new test cases. In the past six months, I have contacted TAHI but the process with them seems slow. They still haven't added our test cases for off-link in their test suite for IPv6 hosts. Bugs 2.1 and 2.3 do need to be added to TAHI.=20 As for 2.1 and 2.3 may be related or may not - we don't have access to the source code of this host. Do note 2.1 and 2.3 are two distinct bugs in the host. 2.1 is host assuming on-link for a destination when host should have assumed off-link. This is the case when router sent the host an RA with no PIO.=20 2.3 is incorrect host behavior for adding a route based on host using an invented prefix (assuming a default prefix length) that is partially derived from the acquired DHCPv6 address. As for 2.4, when I explained to Erik in the hallway at IETF as to what an aggregation router behavior is, he explained to me that this router behavior maps to a point-to-point link. I agree with him. Such a link is well-known to the community. Anyhow, data behavior properties of an aggregation router are also discussed in our on-and-off-link draft. Our on-and-off-link draft explains the behavior in section 3.1 and 4. My IETF presentation also said subscribers behind modems in an aggregation router are always off-link (IPv4 or IPv6). These subscribers cannot talk directly to each other. So the aggregation router which is also the IPv6 default router is lying to any subscriber if this router sends Redirects to the subscriber because such subscribers cannot talk directly to each other. There is one exception to this case which is explained in following text snipped from section 4 of our draft(in square brackets): [Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts behind the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the aggregation router, communicate with each other. The aggregation router sends a Redirect to a source host which communicates with a destination host behind the same bridge CPE if the router can make a determination that the two hosts lie behind the same bridge CPE.] When I explained to Erik he understood this aggregation router behavior in a jiffy. Aggregation routers do not send Redirects - this behavior falls out from the fact that subscribers are off-link in an aggregation network. As a reminder, both 2.1 and 2.3 bugs are reproducible in an Ethernet LAN too. These bugs have nothing to do with an aggregation router although this router is an excellent device to test off-link for IPv6 with. A record of the problems makes sense because now there are IPv6 implementations being developed from scratch in consumer devices which have very limited memory to leverage a free BSD or Linux IPv6 stacks. Such stacks are being developed from scratch. I have already interoperated IPv6 with one such device in the past year. We need a strict set of rules for IPv6 data forwarding and on-and-off-link. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Droms (rdroms)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:19 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Ralph Droms (rdroms); Hesham Soliman; Erik Nordmark; IPV6 List Mailing; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link Hemant - I've reviewed this version of your draft as well as (as you know) earlier versions. I don't have a clear preference about whether or not to take this draft on as a WG work item. It would be helpful to have a record of these implementation problems. However, my understanding is that each of problems 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 (and I think 2.1 and 2.3 are related) has been found once and has been or will be patched. Will the WG want to begin a collection of similar bugs found in other stacks? Is there text in an RFC that can be used as the basis for demonstrating 2.4 is an explicit bug? - Ralph On Dec 12, 2007, at Dec 12, 2007,3:17 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > Hesham, > > Since you said it's good to highlight such DHCPv6 facts to=20 > implementations, see our 2nd draft. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-pr > ob > lems-00.txt > > where we have highlighted such implementation issues. See section > 2.3 of > this draft. Further, bullet 2 in section 2 of our on-and-off-link=20 > draft highlight this DHCPv6 client mistake in a rule. > > Could we get a rough consensus if the above draft should be a work=20 > item of 6man? Folks have to read the draft first. So far only Jinmei=20 > and Vlad have reviewed the implementation draft. > > We can debate the on-and-off-link draft separately. > > Thanks. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:32 PM > To: Ralph Droms (rdroms); Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: 'Erik Nordmark'; 'IPV6 List Mailing'; 'Suresh Krishnan' > Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > > >> To give a little more detail to that implementation bug, it > seems > the > host implementation inferred an on-link prefix from an address > > assigned through DHCPv6. We believe the implementation > carried=20 > over >> IPv4 behavior, in which it's common to pass on-link prefix > > information > to a host as a side effect of address assignment to=20 > interfaces. In > IPv6, of course, RAs provide an explicit path for=20 > announcing prefix > information, so no prefix state should be=20 > inferred from address > assignment. > > =3D> Exactly. This makes sense, and it's good to highlight that to=20 > implementations, I just don't think this behaviour is a result of=20 > correct reading of the spec. > >> >> In my opinion, the "no PIO" case is adequately described in > RFC > 4861, > as the host has no information about on-link status of a=20 > prefix if > there is no PIO for that prefix. Therefore, the host=20 > should > send any > outbound traffic to an address from a prefix for > which the host has > not received a PIO to the default router. > > =3D> Agreed. That's the default behaviour. > > Hesham > >> >> - Ralph >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2007, at Dec 5, 2007,4:05 PM, Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >> >>> Erik, >>> >>> As I said in the presentation, let's forget the > aggregation > router. >>> The >>> host implementation bug we found is reproduced in an Ethernet LAN=20 >>> network too. An RA from the router was sent where RA was > NOT > signaling > > on-link and the host still behaved as on-link for=20 > traffic >> forwarding. >>> The RA we used was an RA that did not send any PIO (Prefix > > Information > > Option). BTW, such a case (RA with no PIO) is not=20 > even >> covered by the > > definition of on- and off-link in section 2.1 of > RFC 4861, > especially > > since section 2.1 goes to so much copious > details to > describe on-link. >>> >>> I was looking for a Turing machine to signal off-link. >>> >>> Hemant >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > > Sent: > Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:29 PM > > To: Hemant Singh > (shemant) > >> Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Off-link and > on-link > > > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: >>>> Suresh, >>>> >>>> At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag. >> Without a new >>>> off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note,=20 >>>> aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > >>> cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. >>> >>> Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? >>> >>> Erik >>> >>>> >>>> Hemant >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > >> To: > ipv6@ietf.org > >> Subject: Off-link and on-link > >> > >> Hi=20 > Hesham/Dave/Erik, > >> I am not taking a stand on whether an=20 > explicit off-link flag is > >> necessary/useful or not, but I have=20 > encountered a >> scenario where the > >> existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does > not work very well. >>>> Let's >>> >>>> say a router wants to signal to the clients that > > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > >> is on-link except for > 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 > that is > off-link. How > >> would it go about describing this? I=20 > see two ways > >> > >> a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send=20 > redirects for all > addresses > >> not > > > >> on the /64 > >>=20 > b) Advertise > the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > >> flag)=3D0 = =20 > > >> >>>> I see b) as being more efficient than a) > >> > >> P.S: I do not > think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Suresh >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Administrative Requests: >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Shea.lubbe@andysdierensuper.nl Thu Dec 13 10:15:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2pmd-00042D-EQ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:15:31 -0500 Received: from [201.141.211.180] (helo=[201.141.211.180]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2pmc-0007Qy-2M for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:15:30 -0500 Received: from Sion by andysdierensuper.nl with ASMTP id 95B7AD6B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:16:00 -0600 Received: from Sion ([143.147.183.44]) by andysdierensuper.nl with ESMTP id 647C939A49A4 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:16:00 -0600 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:15:26 -0600 To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org From: "Shea lubbe" Subject: refotsir Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: avast! 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Come find out. http://eurocasinoaf.com/ From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 10:33:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2q44-0005Vp-NP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:33:32 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2q44-0005Vi-3X for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:33:32 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2q43-0007pZ-EG for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:33:32 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 07:33:30 -0800 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBDFXUHQ031951; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:33:30 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBDFXN0m015877; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:33:30 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:33:05 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:33:04 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Off-link and on-link Thread-Index: Acg3fXiGn+wDsA8uTWiKkzepTlwAZAFaefxgAA7rFAAAHj8nkA== References: From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Hesham Soliman" , "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 15:33:05.0353 (UTC) FILETIME=[747C6B90:01C83D9D] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4129; t=1197560010; x=1198424010; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Off-link=20and=20on-link |Sender:=20; bh=hmOCAyx9/fNYK1Bndbr7IzIZeh3yFcPq76gDIKp+2Hw=; b=IuD2rz/23CfnE0NdHRA5F1D3Nlt8zRHcPSswkPOVUe3QK54LVRilGQ1BgQ G/LyOMecG8gSfoxHuqYb2V4escr2hOikyM1PRhf/oHNq4Shg9qaNa/kafWQ9 Lebc6hEIbfnbUy+CFkTgPV/k7ZQEPfy3+gwTqagI2hkrayBZck6+s=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham, OK, if you read the draft(s), my apologies. Sorry if you said so in the IETF meeting too and I missed the fact. However, I have one question. If you read the drafts, which of the following four have you read? http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/hemantsingh.html=20 So far folks who read our drafts also sent comments to the IETF mailers. Jinmei and Vlad to ipv6 IETF mailer and Alain Durand to the IETF DHC mailer. =20 Thanks. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Hesham Soliman [mailto:Hesham@elevatemobile.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:58 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant); 'Erik Nordmark' Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; 'Suresh Krishnan' Subject: RE: Off-link and on-link > > I am getting back to replying to some emails that were sent > in response > to our drafts. I did explain what an aggregation router was > when we met > face to face at IETF. If you had read our drafts, that was one way to > learn about properties of an aggregation router wrt to ND. It was > unfortunate, neither you or Hesham had read our drafts when=20 =3D> Would you please not attribute things to me? I did read the draft before I commented in the meeting. I don't know why you keep repeating this.=20 Hesham > folks like > Jinmei Tatuya, Alain Durand, Jari, and Vlad have.=20 > > Anyhow, RFC 4388 mentions an access concentrator. When this > concentrator > supports routing, the device is an aggregation router. > > Hemant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nordmark [mailto:erik.nordmark@sun.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:29 PM > To: Hemant Singh (shemant) > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Off-link and on-link > > Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote: > > Suresh, > > > > At least our drafts do not ask for a new off-link flag.=20 > Without a new > > off-link flag your scenario will have to go with (a). But do note, > > aggregation routers do not send Redirects. So the scenario below > > cannot be even supported on aggregation routers. > > Which RFC defines an "aggregation router"? >=20 > Erik > > > > > Hemant > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01 AM > > To: ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Off-link and on-link > > > > Hi Hesham/Dave/Erik, > > I am not taking a stand on whether an explicit off-link flag is=20 > > necessary/useful or not, but I have encountered a scenario > where the > > existing algorithm specified in RFC4861 does not work very > well. Let's > > > say a router wants to signal to the clients that > 2001:dead:beef::/48 > > is on-link except for 2001:dead:beef:abcd::/64 that is > off-link. How > > would it go about describing this? I see two ways > > > > a) Advertise the /48 with L=3D0 and send redirects = for all > addresses not > > > on the /64 > > b) Advertise the /48 with L=3D1 and the /64 with Q(the new off-link > > flag)=3D0 > > > > I see = b) as being more efficient than a) > > > > P.S: I do not think that this scenario is very likely, > just possible. > > > > Cheers > > Suresh > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests:=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests:=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From UlrichFurmann@5regularjoes.com Thu Dec 13 11:00:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2qTv-0002IU-RO for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:00:15 -0500 Received: from host19-163-static.24-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([87.24.163.19]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2qTu-0008OH-Pf for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:00:15 -0500 Received: from officina ([194.141.16.142] helo=officina) by host19-163-static.24-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1dniAh-000SZT-sC for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:02:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c83da1$805a7520$13a31857@officina> From: "Ulrich Furmann" To: Subject: nirebuh Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:02:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C83DA9.E21EDD20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C83DA9.E21EDD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello ipngwg-archive Become really well healthy in 2008! http://growenter.com Ulrich Furmann ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C83DA9.E21EDD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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This one will help for sure! http://www.magillin.com/ From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 14:37:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2trm-00024F-UB; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2trl-0001ne-0W for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:05 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2tri-0006ZM-Fm for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2007 14:37:02 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBDJb2lG020860; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:02 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBDJaSaW007619; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:37:01 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:00 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3cjg07vf7UxVKSZu8obivgUjPFwGNgDQA References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Josh Littlefield (joshl)" , "Erik Nordmark" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 19:37:00.0557 (UTC) FILETIME=[87BF53D0:01C83DBF] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=20575; t=1197574622; x=1198438622; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3. 4=20text=20that=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Josh=20Littlefield=20(joshl)=22=20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Erik=20Nordmark=22=20; bh=bIrhWoS9Lu2A7voGG8x3vIDAHAeQSgh0Wel0tbfwWts=; b=Dg3zN4vgdbizdPMnNp3jlN3H93AgGfbeQWwFmMzdbKwVp3F/jJjRwcysMK h3cg4+HO3dsM2H3+bd2ZCzOMgsscKkREF2+dSwKYrhEJcaUy6FFuLv9VgRsn hdYDzeRDfH; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 32604d42645517c44d778f1d111b40a6 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0222673541==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0222673541== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83DBF.876A15AE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83DBF.876A15AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, =20 Since Erik mentioned a new rephrased sentence in this email below where his sentence included a Redirect, I'd like to focus the community on Redirect in RFC 4261 vs. Redirect in our draft related to on-and-off-link determination. This is another reason for our draft to exist and argue for consideration to 6man WG as a work item. =20 Notice in our draft, we are defining rules that a host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve.... in cases discussing off-link. So now if one discusses Redirect, Redirect becomes interesting when the Redirect does not include the Target Link-Layer Address option (TLLAO). Section 8.3 of RFC 4861 does not even discuss this case. Section 8.3 of RFC 4861 discusses only the case of Redirect when the Redirect DOES include the TLLAO. We feel the case of Redirect with no TLLAO is worth discussing - we will show you why with a new text from our -01 draft - read the text and see why such text needs to be a part of any Redirect and on-and-off-link discussion. We plan to release the -01 sometime early next week. Notice we had released an early copy of the -01 draft to this mailer on November 1st, 2007. =20 Jinmei commented on Redirect in our -00 draft saying that the "MUST NOT issue NS to resolve" rule against Redirect was not correct when the Redirect does not include TLLAO. He said without TLLAO the host MUST issue an NS to resolve destination. Even that was not quite the correct answer - in some cases without TLLAO, a NS to resolve is not needed while is some cases it is. Anyhow, our -00 draft was only discussing Redirect with TLLAO but we hadn't explicitly said so. So we added a very comprehensive Redirect section in our draft that reads as follows - see text within square brackets. =20 [4. Redirect Clarifications Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts behind the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the aggregation router, communicate with each other. The aggregation router sends a Redirect to a source host which communicates with a destination host behind the same bridge CPE if the router can make a determination that the two hosts lie behind the same bridge CPE.=20 The ICMP field of the Redirect message has a Target Address field. In the presence of a Target link-layer address option included in the Redirect, the host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination. In the absence of any Target link-layer address option included in the Redirect, host behavior depends upon the type of the target.=20 If the target is a router, that router's link-local address is the Target Address. The source IP address of a Redirect is always a link-local address. If the target link-local address matches the source IP address, then the L2 header of the Redirect message tells the host the link-layer address of the target. The purpose of such a Redirect message is to tell a host that a destination which the host assumes to be on-link is in fact off-link. If the target address does not match the source IP address, then the Redirect target is another router than the router that issued the Redirect. In this case, the host MUST issue an NS to resolve the link-local address of the target if the host does not already have this address in its neighbor cache. This Redirect indicates that the destination is off-link, but the host MUST use a different router than the one issuing the Redirect in order to reach the destination. In summary, if the target of a Redirect is a router, then the destination is off-link and the host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve a destination other than a link-local address.=20 If the target is a host, the target address is the same value as the ICMP Destination address. On receiving this Redirect, the source host MUST issue an NS to resolve a non-link-local destination if the host does not already have this information in its neighbor cache. Once the destination host responds to the NS, the source host will thereafter send packets directly to the destination host. ] Such new text belongs in RFC 4861 but we ain't writing a 4861bis just yet. So where does such text go? It has been included in our on-and-off-link draft! Hemant ________________________________ From: Josh Littlefield (joshl)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote:=20 The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? =09 Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set=20 indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be=20 considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option=20 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning=20 on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that=20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel=20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the=20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see=20 Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to=20 forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix=20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not=20 change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as=20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.=20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the=20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].=20 Hemant=20 =09 ________________________________ =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83DBF.876A15AE Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text
Folks,
 
Since Erik mentioned a new = rephrased sentence=20 in this email below where his sentence included a Redirect, = I'd like=20 to focus the community on Redirect in RFC 4261 vs. Redirect in = our=20 draft related to on-and-off-link determination. This is another reason = for our=20 draft to exist and argue for consideration to 6man WG as a work=20 item.
 
Notice in our draft, we are defining rules that = a host MUST=20 NOT issue an NS to resolve.... in cases discussing off-link. So now if = one=20 discusses Redirect, Redirect becomes interesting when the Redirect does = not=20 include the Target Link-Layer Address option (TLLAO). Section 8.3 of RFC = 4861=20 does not even discuss this case. Section 8.3 of RFC 4861 discusses only = the case=20 of Redirect when the Redirect DOES include the TLLAO. We feel the case = of=20 Redirect with no TLLAO is worth discussing - we will show you why with a = new=20 text from our -01 draft - read the text and see why such text needs to = be a part=20 of any Redirect and on-and-off-link discussion. We plan to release = the -01=20 sometime early next week. Notice we had released an early copy of the = -01 draft=20 to this mailer on November 1st, 2007.
 
Jinmei commented on Redirect in = our=20 -00 draft saying that the "MUST NOT issue NS to resolve" rule = against=20 Redirect was not correct when the Redirect does not include TLLAO. He = said=20 without TLLAO the host MUST issue an NS to resolve destination. Even = that was=20 not quite the correct answer - in some cases without TLLAO, a NS to = resolve is=20 not needed while is some cases it is. Anyhow, our -00 draft was only = discussing=20 Redirect with TLLAO but we hadn't explicitly said so. So we added a very = comprehensive Redirect section in our draft that reads as follows - see = text=20 within square brackets.
 

[4.  Redirect Clarifications

Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts = behind=20 the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the aggregation = router,=20 communicate with each other. The aggregation router sends a Redirect to = a source=20 host which communicates with a destination host behind the same bridge = CPE if=20 the router can make a determination that the two hosts lie behind the = same=20 bridge CPE.

The ICMP field of the Redirect message has a Target Address field. In = the=20 presence of a Target link-layer address=20 option included in the Redirect, the host MUST NOT issue an NS to = resolve=20 the destination. In the absence of any Target link-layer address option included in the = Redirect, host=20 behavior depends upon the type of the target.

If the target is a router, that router's link-local address is the = Target=20 Address. The source IP address of a Redirect is always a link-local = address. If=20 the target link-local address matches the source IP address, then the L2 = header=20 of the Redirect message tells the host the link-layer address of the = target. The=20 purpose of such a Redirect message is to tell a host that a destination = which=20 the host assumes to be on-link is in fact off-link. If the target = address does=20 not match the source IP address, then the Redirect target is another = router than=20 the router that issued the Redirect. In this case, the host MUST issue = an NS to=20 resolve the link-local address of the target if the host does not = already have=20 this address in its neighbor cache. This Redirect indicates that the = destination=20 is off-link, but the host MUST use a different router than the one = issuing the=20 Redirect in order to reach the destination. In summary, if the target of = a=20 Redirect is a router, then the destination is off-link and the host MUST = NOT=20 issue an NS to resolve a destination other than a link-local address. =

If the target is a host, the target address is the same value as the = ICMP=20 Destination address. On receiving this Redirect, the source host MUST = issue an=20 NS to resolve a non-link-local destination if the host does not already = have=20 this information in its neighbor cache. Once the destination host = responds to=20 the NS, the source host will thereafter send packets directly to the = destination=20 host. ]

Such new=20 text belongs in RFC 4861 but we ain't writing a 4861bis just yet. So = where does=20 such text go? It has been included in our on-and-off-link=20 draft!

Hemant
From: Josh Littlefield (joshl) =
Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:08 PM
To: Hemant Singh=20 (shemant)
Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 = Mailing=20 List
Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is=20 ambigious text

It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this = paragraph is=20 saying:

Default sending behavior is send to default = router.
Reception=20 of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly)
Reception of = L=3D0 is=20 no-op.

Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix = on-link due to=20 prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link.
If one did not consider = the prefix=20 on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior.

It = might be=20 clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are = off-link,=20 and this means send to default router.  Only reception of L=3D1 can = change=20 that for any specific prefix.  A prefix with L=3D0 does not change = off-link,=20 or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix = entirely=20 from the RA, from the point of view of on-link = determination.

Hemant=20 Singh (shemant) wrote:=20

The summary from = this section=20 snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does = not mean=20 off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to = default=20 router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. = Why is=20 this paragraph not ambiguous?


Prefix Information options = that have the=20 "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of = addresses that=20 should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a = Prefix=20 Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no = information=20 concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be = interpreted to mean=20 that
  =20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to=20 cancel
  =20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with=20 the
  =20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior (see =
   = Section 5.2)=20 when sending a packet to an address for which no =
   = information is=20 known about the on-link status of the address is to =
   = forward the=20 packet to a default router; the = reception of a=20 Prefix
  =20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does=20 not
  =20 change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated=20 as
  =20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section=20 2.1.
  =20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have=20 the
  =20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant = 


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--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Josh Littlefield                                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
joshl@cisco.com                      =
       1414 Massachusetts Avenue
tel: 978-936-1379  fax: 978-936-2226       Boxborough, MA  01719-2205
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:53:51 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, Erik Nordmark , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Suresh Krishnan , "Josh Littlefield \(joshl\)" Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org "Hemant Singh (shemant)" writes: > [4. Redirect Clarifications > Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts > behind the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the > aggregation router, communicate with each other. The aggregation router > sends a Redirect to a source host which communicates with a destination > host behind the same bridge CPE if the router can make a determination > that the two hosts lie behind the same bridge CPE.=20 OK. > The ICMP field of the Redirect message has a Target Address field. In > the presence of a Target link-layer address option included in the > Redirect, the host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination. No. A node MUST always be allowed to send out an NS if it has been told a destination is on-link (whether by PIO or by a redirect). Sure, in most cases after a redirect it shouldn't need to do so, but it must have the option of doing so. What if garbage collections times-out the associated link-layer address? > In the absence of any Target link-layer address option included in > the Redirect, host behavior depends upon the type of the target.=20 > If the target is a router, that router's link-local address is the > Target Address. The source IP address of a Redirect is always a > link-local address. If the target link-local address matches the source > IP address, then the L2 header of the Redirect message tells the host > the link-layer address of the target. I do not believe ND has ever _required_ looking at the L2 header to extract information. I.e, that is why we have Link-Layer Adress options as part of ND, so that the ND processing can be media-idependent. > The purpose of such a Redirect message is to tell a host that a > destination which the host assumes to be on-link is in fact > off-link. If the target address does not match the source IP > address, then the Redirect target is another router than the router > that issued the Redirect. In this case, the host MUST issue an NS to > resolve the link-local address of the target if the host does not > already have this address in its neighbor cache. This last sentence is not needed, as one always issues an NS to do address resolution if one doesn't have the necessary information.. That is pretty basic stuff. > This Redirect indicates that the destination is off-link, but the > host MUST use a different router than the one issuing the Redirect > in order to reach the destination. In summary, if the target of a > Redirect is a router, then the destination is off-link and the host > MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve a destination other than a > link-local address.=20 I don't know why all this MUST NOT stuff is needed. The host doesn't need to explicitly know that a destination is on or off-link. This all just happens correctly as part of ND processing. > If the target is a host, the target address is the same value as the > ICMP Destination address. On receiving this Redirect, the source host > MUST issue an NS to resolve a non-link-local destination if the host > does not already have this information in its neighbor cache. Once the > destination host responds to the NS, the source host will thereafter > send packets directly to the destination host. ] Again, I do not understand how the above text clarifies or otherwise changes anything in ND. > Such new text belongs in RFC 4861 but we ain't writing a 4861bis just > yet. So where does such text go? It has been included in our > on-and-off-link draft! Bottom line. I don't get why we continue to have this discussion. I remain unconvinced that there is a real problem here that needs fixing. The one thing that _might_ be worth putting in a document somewhere is a statement to the effect: A node only considers destinations to be on-link, if it has received an explicit indication that the target address is on-link (via a redirect) or if the address is covered by a prefix on-link indication (per a PIO option). Packets for all other destinations are forwarded through a neighboring router. But that said, ND has been around for more than 10 years now, has been implemented many times, and the vast majority of implementors have not been confused on this point from what I can tell. Even the implementation that triggered this discussion seems to concede it is not following the spec. Thus, I think the issue (to the degree that there might be one) is being blown way out of proportion. Don't we have real work to do here? 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From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 14 12:16:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3E8l-0003bq-U3; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:59 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3E8k-0003bg-MW for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:58 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3E8j-0003UW-8H for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:58 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2007 12:15:57 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBEHFvPK024185; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:57 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBEHFNZm014742; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:15:56 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:48 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:15:48 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200712141353.lBEDrpZT007661@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg+WM5FFWKqN7nFSkOVU0LAMq5GfQACEmOg References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> <200712141353.lBEDrpZT007661@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Thomas Narten" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2007 17:15:48.0900 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8A8CE40:01C83E74] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=13603; t=1197652557; x=1198516557; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3. 4=20text=20that=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Thomas=20Narten=22=20; bh=0eairr8YdmvXxjVBvkz7jMpUPtupa7+cKWBxKkSQWPE=; b=tUM47Z6/DPZUU7ihk7gHVfDKW6WmiExzRTZudLqUBBrxxrpkqzgDwdAGWt c6Mft/04jhxWq/YbD4QLAjjfc2z2TA2CATVK3JdRNjgtts6yG2uJipomy7ZR JtZLX3f6Pl; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cbb41f2dbf0f142369614756642005e3 Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, Erik Nordmark , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Suresh Krishnan , "Josh Littlefield \(joshl\)" Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thomas, Thanks for this email. First, here is a running list of why we think our on-and-off-link draft should exist. 1. We presented to the IPv6 community that RFC 4861 does not include in section 8.3, a case for when Redirect does not include Target Link-layer address option (TLLAO). Such a Redirect is common to be encountered in an IPv6 network. Therefore either a 4861bis discusses it or our draft does. 2. Since Redirect can suggest a better first-hop that could be on- or off-link, our intent is to dissect Redirect more carefully because we have found show stopper issues with on- vs. off-link determination in an aggregation routed network. We think we do provide ample evidence in line below for our case of confusion related to on- vs. off-link in the ND RFC. 3. We see hosts are confused between the boundary of what should DHCPv6 handle and dole out vs. what should ND handle and dole out. Can the community show what text in RFC 3315 or RFC 4861 and 4862 defines such boundaries or the justification for such boundaries - this is a deployment that includes both a DHCPv6 server and an IPv6 default router. Our draft is defining such boundaries, although that is not the primary intent of our draft. An example of hosts being confused about this boundary is shown in bug 2.3 of our ND implementation draft - draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-problems-00.=20 Now, please see in line below for our responses included between and or and . -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Narten [mailto:narten@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:54 AM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Josh Littlefield (joshl); Erik Nordmark; IETF IPv6 Mailing List; bob.hinden@nokia.com; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text "Hemant Singh (shemant)" writes: > [4. Redirect Clarifications > Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts=20 > behind the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the=20 > aggregation router, communicate with each other. The aggregation=20 > router sends a Redirect to a source host which communicates with a=20 > destination host behind the same bridge CPE if the router can make a=20 > determination that the two hosts lie behind the same bridge CPE.=3D20 OK.=20 > The ICMP field of the Redirect message has a Target Address field. In=20 > the presence of a Target link-layer address option included in the=20 > Redirect, the host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination. No. A node MUST always be allowed to send out an NS if it has been told a destination is on-link (whether by PIO or by a redirect). Sure, in most cases after a redirect it shouldn't need to do so, but it must have the option of doing so. What if garbage collections times-out the associated link-layer address? Garbage collection will need to issue a unicast NS that is a Neighbor Unreachability detection. Our text says MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination - this is a multicast NS. But if NUD fails, you are totally correct that the node will have to send out an NS. This texts need rewording in our draft. > In the absence of any Target link-layer address option included in the > Redirect, host behavior depends upon the type of the target.=3D20 > If the target is a router, that router's link-local address is the=20 > Target Address. The source IP address of a Redirect is always a=20 > link-local address. If the target link-local address matches the=20 > source IP address, then the L2 header of the Redirect message tells=20 > the host the link-layer address of the target. I do not believe ND has ever _required_ looking at the L2 header to extract information. I.e, that is why we have Link-Layer Adress options as part of ND, so that the ND processing can be media-idependent.=20 Makes sense to have ND processing be media-independent. However, we should still have such text but preceded by comments like, "it's left to the vendor if they would like to do any optimized processing of Redirect along with L2 header when the router has all information for L2 media type." Makes sense to have a router vendor have such flexibility. > The purpose of such a Redirect message is to tell a host that a=20 > destination which the host assumes to be on-link is in fact off-link.=20 > If the target address does not match the source IP address, then the=20 > Redirect target is another router than the router that issued the=20 > Redirect. In this case, the host MUST issue an NS to resolve the=20 > link-local address of the target if the host does not already have=20 > this address in its neighbor cache. This last sentence is not needed, as one always issues an NS to do address resolution if one doesn't have the necessary information.. That is pretty basic stuff. Sounds fine. We can remove such a statement. > This Redirect indicates that the destination is off-link, but the host > MUST use a different router than the one issuing the Redirect in order > to reach the destination. In summary, if the target of a Redirect is a > router, then the destination is off-link and the host MUST NOT issue=20 > an NS to resolve a destination other than a link-local address.=3D20 I don't know why all this MUST NOT stuff is needed. The host doesn't need to explicitly know that a destination is on or off-link. This all just happens correctly as part of ND processing. The consequences of "correct ND processing" need to be ironed out because: 1) hosts don't always implement ND in the same way, =20 2) routers need to know what behavior to expect from hosts, and=20 3) RFC 3756, section 4.2.5 (Bogus On-Link Prefix) states "If a sending host thinks the prefix is on-link, it will never send a packet for that prefix to the router." 4) If a host incorrectly assumed a packet destination to be on-link when the host was supposed to treat the destination as off-link, the host can issue an NS to resolve the destination. The router may not respond to this NS and the host eventually times out sending the packet out. In an Ethernet LAN, the router will respond, but in an aggregated routed network, the aggregation router does not respond to any address resolution for non-link-local address from any client on the router upstream. The aggregated routed network for IETF folks is a point to point link topology. An example of such a router is a cable router terminating over 60,000 IPv6 cable modems with IPv6 hosts behind the modems. We have explained the aggregation router in numerous emails to IETF mailer. > If the target is a host, the target address is the same value as the=20 > ICMP Destination address. On receiving this Redirect, the source host=20 > MUST issue an NS to resolve a non-link-local destination if the host=20 > does not already have this information in its neighbor cache. Once the > destination host responds to the NS, the source host will thereafter=20 > send packets directly to the destination host. ] Again, I do not understand how the above text clarifies or otherwise changes anything in ND. We have this paragraph to discuss the Redirect case when no TLLAO is included in Redirect.=20 We have to complete the no TLLAO text for the case when the Target was a host vs. a router. > Such new text belongs in RFC 4861 but we ain't writing a 4861bis just=20 > yet. So where does such text go? It has been included in our=20 > on-and-off-link draft! Bottom line. I don't get why we continue to have this discussion. I remain unconvinced that there is a real problem here that needs fixing. The one thing that _might_ be worth putting in a document somewhere is a statement to the effect: A node only considers destinations to be on-link, if it has received an explicit indication that the target address is on-link (via a redirect) or if the address is covered by a prefix on-link indication (per a PIO option). Packets for all other destinations are forwarded through a neighboring router. Hmm, the text above still does not cover the two cases for on-link as specified in section 2.1 of the on-link definition. - a Neighbor Advertisement message is received for the (target) address, or - any Neighbor Discovery message is received from the address. For a third case, the on-link definition in section 2.1 of RFC 4861 does not mention the fact that manual configuration in out of scope of the ND RFC. Manual configuration is a can of worms that can mess up prefixes, prefix length, on- and off-link determination, and can cause security problems. Do you know what do host vendors tell us when we complained to them that their host was incorrectly adding a default route from a conjured up prefix and prefix length based on what the host got for a DHCPv6 address? The incorrect behavior causes a Show Stopper data forwarding problem in cable router for an IPv6 host. They tell us, gee, how do we know you didn't configure the default router manually? Do you want to deal with such comments. I would rather put some text in the RFC that says manual configuration is out of scope. That is why we have bullet 2 in our on-and-off-link drafts that says: [The on-link definition in section 2.1 of RFC 4861 (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," September 2007.) [ND] describes the only means for on-link determination. DHCPv6 or any other configuration on the host MUST NOT be used for on-link determination. Manual configuration of a host introduces its own set of security considerations and is beyond the scope of this document. Note that the on-link definition as specified by RFC 4861 (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," September 2007.) [ND] does not include manual configuration.] Further, Josh Littlefield from Cisco said something similar to your suggested text last week. We have to have ND specify that the default mode is off-link. See how even an author of the ND RFC can say one thing in an email when the ND RFC says another thing. Hesham emailed the text in double quotes below. "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link." But the RFC text says the following about the same issue shown below in square brackets. =20 [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] We have to be careful when we say "not assume off-link" vs. "not assume on-link" or both. I think such text in the ND RFC is confusing when one could remove all this text about "not assuming on-link" and "not assuming off-link" in the RFC and replace it by what Josh suggested first- the default mode is off-link. Then reword some text around that. I will re-send Josh's email to this mailer soon. =20 But that said, ND has been around for more than 10 years now, has been implemented many times, and the vast majority of implementors have not been confused on this point from what I can tell. Even the implementation that triggered this discussion seems to concede it is not following the spec. Thus, I think the issue (to the degree that there might be one) is being blown way out of proportion. =20 I suspect for the past ten years ND has been tested in Ethernet LAN networks (wired or wireless), or any cellular networks, and that too in on-link mode. We started testing ND eight months back with off-link since that is the only model for an aggregation router hosts. In our off-link test, a host is sent an RA with no PIO, but the host did not send all non-link-local traffic to the default router. Instead the host assumed on-link and when the host was asked to forward a packet out, the host issued an NS to resolve the destination. Since the aggregation router does not reply to any address resolution for non-link-local addresses from hosts on the router's upstream, the host keeps sending NS's while holding the packet in a queue. Eventually the host timed out and failed to send the packet out. The same problem exists when another destination pings this host and when host has to send a ping reply, the host tries again to issue NS and fails to send the reply. Incorrect on- vs. off-link determination caused this Showstopper problem in an aggregation router network. See bug 2.1 in draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-problems-00.txt that reports this problem. Do NOTE this bug occurs in an Ethernet LAN too, but the effect of the bug is less severe in Ethernet LAN because the router can respond to the NS. We want on-and-off-link iron clad in the RFC because if a slight mistake is made, one can see a show stopper problem for data forwarding. First, congratulations are due to the ND authors for designing ND well to work in yet another network like the cable aggregated routed network. But welcome to some minor demands from folks form such a network. I hope Alain Durand from Comcast is listening on this thread. Hemant Don't we have real work to do here? Thomas - Wes and Hemant -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 14 12:31:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ENO-00059x-3m; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:06 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ENM-00059b-R3 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ENL-0003t6-Uc for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2007 12:31:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBEHV2bR014166; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:02 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBEHV2ZG020693; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:31:02 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:02 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:31:01 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg3cjg07vf7UxVKSZu8obivgUjPFwHBMvkA References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com> <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4756F729.8060003@cisco.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Josh Littlefield (joshl)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2007 17:31:02.0020 (UTC) FILETIME=[18EBDC40:01C83E77] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=10986; t=1197653462; x=1198517462; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3. 4=20text=20that=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Josh=20Littlefield=20(joshl)=22=20; bh=TuQBhRr+Hw70bg2e6zHutbCgC+0/myuS+cO7+0SHchc=; b=ZZ9iW33ivSHKx/5AR/P3fwl1UeBu2IElhHYAvjOLt8L/tjHPSdL04JNAm4 gm6WKU4c4Zz/cAAKbBrZ0bSnAxPldmPe7Z8HoNYQuzE1XTnQprxFUYo8/k5D EI89T7ZtR9; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e178fd6cb61ffb6940cd878e7fea8606 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0231303675==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0231303675== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83E77.18943DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E77.18943DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since Thomas suggested some similar text, could folks please reply to this email from Josh. =20 Thanks. =20 Hemant ________________________________ From: Josh Littlefield (joshl)=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:08 PM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this paragraph is saying: Default sending behavior is send to default router. Reception of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly) Reception of L=3D0 is no-op. Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix on-link due to = prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link. If one did not consider the prefix on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior. It might be clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are off-link, and this means send to default router. Only reception of L=3D1 can change that for any specific prefix. A prefix = with L=3D0 does not change off-link, or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix entirely from the RA, from the point of view of on-link determination. Hemant Singh (shemant) wrote:=20 The summary from this section snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does not mean off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to default router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. Why is this paragraph not ambiguous? =09 Prefix Information options that have the "on-link" (L) flag set=20 indicate a prefix identifying a range of addresses that should be=20 considered on-link. Note, however, that a Prefix Information option=20 with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning=20 on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that=20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link. The only way to cancel=20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with the=20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero. The default behavior (see=20 Section 5.2) when sending a packet to an address for which no information is known about the on-link status of the address is to=20 forward the packet to a default router; the reception of a Prefix=20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does not=20 change this behavior. The reasons for an address being treated as=20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section 2.1.=20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have the=20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].=20 Hemant=20 =09 ________________________________ =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 =09 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Josh Littlefield Cisco Systems, Inc. joshl@cisco.com 1414 Massachusetts Avenue tel: 978-936-1379 fax: 978-936-2226 Boxborough, MA 01719-2205 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E77.18943DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious = text
Since Thomas suggested some similar text, could = folks=20 please reply to this email from Josh.
 
Thanks.
 
Hemant

From: Josh Littlefield (joshl) =
Sent:=20 Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:08 PM
To: Hemant Singh=20 (shemant)
Cc: Suresh Krishnan; bob.hinden@nokia.com; IETF IPv6 = Mailing=20 List
Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is=20 ambigious text

It is not crystal clear, but my impression is that this = paragraph is=20 saying:

Default sending behavior is send to default = router.
Reception=20 of L=3D1 signals on-link (can use ND to send directly)
Reception of = L=3D0 is=20 no-op.

Because L=3D0 is no-op, if one considered the prefix = on-link due to=20 prior L=3D1, then prefix is still on-link.
If one did not consider = the prefix=20 on-linke due to prior L=3D1, then retain default behavior.

It = might be=20 clearer to have said that default assumption is that all prefixes are = off-link,=20 and this means send to default router.  Only reception of L=3D1 can = change=20 that for any specific prefix.  A prefix with L=3D0 does not change = off-link,=20 or on-link status of prefix, and is the same as omitting the prefix = entirely=20 from the RA, from the point of view of on-link = determination.

Hemant=20 Singh (shemant) wrote:=20

The summary from = this section=20 snipped from 6.3.4 of RFC 4861 is saying no on-ink information does = not mean=20 off-link. So why is the text is red where is says, send traffic to = default=20 router being said because the text in red signals off-link behavior. = Why is=20 this paragraph not ambiguous?

=
Prefix Information options = that have the=20 "on-link" (L) flag set
   indicate a prefix identifying a range of = addresses that=20 should be
   considered on-link.  Note, however, that a = Prefix=20 Information option
   with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no = information=20 concerning
   on-link determination and MUST NOT be = interpreted to mean=20 that
  =20 addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.  The only way to=20 cancel
  =20 a previous on-link indication is to advertise that prefix with=20 the
  =20 L-bit set and the Lifetime set to zero.  The default behavior (see =
   = Section 5.2)=20 when sending a packet to an address for which no =
   = information is=20 known about the on-link status of the address is to =
   = forward the=20 packet to a default router; the = reception of a=20 Prefix
  =20 Information option with the "on-link" (L) flag set to zero does=20 not
  =20 change this behavior.  The reasons for an address being treated=20 as
  =20 on-link is specified in the definition of "on-link" in Section=20 2.1.
  =20 Prefixes with the on-link flag set to zero would normally have=20 the
  =20 autonomous flag set and be used by [ADDRCONF].

Hemant = 


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--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Josh Littlefield                                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
joshl@cisco.com                      =
       1414 Massachusetts Avenue
tel: 978-936-1379  fax: 978-936-2226       Boxborough, MA  01719-2205
------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E77.18943DC0-- --===============0231303675== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0231303675==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 14 14:39:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GMe-0000F6-Un; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:28 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GMc-0000A6-8p for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:26 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GMb-0007qj-MH for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:26 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2007 14:38:25 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBEJcP6Z014303 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:25 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBEJcFaU023806 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:38:25 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.118]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:24 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:38:13 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Timing out NS and sending data to the default router Thread-Index: Acg+iN16LAszN2EZRUmW2wiws3p37A== From: "Wes Beebee (wbeebee)" To: "Tony Hain (ahain)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2007 19:38:24.0580 (UTC) FILETIME=[E43DF840:01C83E88] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5415; t=1197661105; x=1198525105; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=wbeebee@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Wes=20Beebee=20(wbeebee)=22=20 |Subject:=20Timing=20out=20NS=20and=20sending=20data=20to=2 0the=20default=20router |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Tony=20Hain=20(ahain)=22=20; bh=zHa8lm2GPcbmXAThs0b8WH6wRwrXYyX/+J/vRIKgqFs=; b=DMisC4OIqokkwsynYyqnWVPGEddKLZaZC0rAVsaQ8A2vLBLSKogt+LQ1ls 7sRh7UwJ4q4R4TzJ56haSmKB5oalaPkOP2KoLFwD86iRSGsNTEdZ3YkEqSYi kvzb0SJWFJ; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=wbeebee@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Timing out NS and sending data to the default router X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1513821632==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1513821632== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83E88.E4273390" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E88.E4273390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I listened to the 6man WG on- and off-link presentation and responses from the audio feed. I have a comment relating to what Tony Hain said during the presentation. =20 Inappropriately sending data to the default router is not catastrophic, the data will be=20 forwarded by the router to the appropriate destinations. A redirect may even be issued, if supported by the router, to correct this problem. However, inappropriately sending out an NS to resolve an on-link destination can be catastrophic if the router does not respond to the NS (and if others on the link are not physically connected to the node sending the NS) - as presented in the example of an aggregation router deployment in our slides. =20 Tony's idea to time out an NS and send data to the default router seems like a very useful way to convert a catastrophic scenario into a perfectly acceptable one. However, unfortunately neither the currently existing IPv6 ND implementations nor the ND specifications actually follow/specify this behavior. In fact, the SEND (RFC 3756) says in section 4.2.5 (Bogus On-Link Prefix), "If a sending host thinks the prefix is on-link, it will never send a packet for that prefix to the router." This is quite unfortunate, since now we have to be extremely careful to understand EXACTLY when a destination is on- or off-link. On-link determination is no longer just a performance optimization, it's a basic data forwarding correctness issue.=20 =20 - Wes Beebee ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E88.E4273390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I = listened to the=20 6man WG on- and off-link presentation and responses from the audio=20 feed.
I have = a comment=20 relating to what Tony Hain said during the = presentation.
 
Inappropriately=20 sending data to the default router is not catastrophic, the data will be =
forwarded by the=20 router to the appropriate destinations.  A redirect may even be=20 issued,
if = supported by the=20 router, to correct this problem.  However, inappropriately sending=20 out
an NS = to resolve an=20 on-link destination can be catastrophic if the router does not=20 respond
to the = NS (and if=20 others on the link are not physically connected to the node sending the = NS)=20 -
as = presented in the=20 example of an aggregation router deployment in our = slides.
 
Tony's = idea to time=20 out an NS and send data to the default router seems like a very=20 useful
way to = convert a=20 catastrophic scenario into a perfectly acceptable one.  However,=20 unfortunately
neither the=20 currently existing IPv6 ND implementations nor the ND specifications=20 actually
follow/specify this=20 behavior.  In fact, the SEND (RFC 3756) says in section 4.2.5 = (Bogus=20 On-Link Prefix),
"If a = sending host=20 thinks the prefix is on-link, it will never send a packet for that = prefix to the=20 router."
This = is quite=20 unfortunate, since now we have to be extremely careful to understand = EXACTLY=20 when
a = destination is on-=20 or off-link.  On-link determination is no longer just a=20 performance optimization,
it's a = basic data=20 forwarding correctness issue. 
 
- Wes=20 Beebee
------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E88.E4273390-- --===============1513821632== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1513821632==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 14 14:44:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GSR-0006dt-0D; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:44:27 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GHg-0005z8-A3 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:33:20 -0500 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3GHf-0007hB-73 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:33:20 -0500 Received: from ([128.244.206.192]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.63013379; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:44 -0500 Message-ID: <4762DA5A.4000207@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:42 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IPv6 WG Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010002010600050801070107" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e367d58950869b6582535ddf5a673488 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:44:26 -0500 Subject: IETF 70 6MAN Minutes X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010002010600050801070107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Attached are the minutes taken for our meeting in Vancouver. Many thanks to Karen O'Donoghue for acting as minute taker and Suresh Krishnan for being the Jabber scribe. Please review the minutes and provide any changes, clarifications, or updates. Regards, Brian & Bob --------------010002010600050801070107 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ietf70-6man-minutes.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ietf70-6man-minutes.txt" IETF IPv6 Maintenance Working Group Meeting Wednesday, 5 December, 2007, 0900-1130 The meeting was called to order by co-chairs Brian Haberman and Bob Hinden. Karen O'Donoghue (with input from Ed Jankiewicz) took minutes and Suresh Krishnan acted as Jabber scribe. The blue sheets were distributed, and the agenda was presented with no additions. During the agenda discussion, Rosalea Roberts reminded the working group of the draft-narten-ipv6-3177bis-48boundary-03 discussion currently ongoing in v6ops and encouraged this working group to follow and participate in that discussion. Node Requirements Update (Brian Haberman for John Loughney) ================================================= Document: RFC 4294 IPv6 Node Requirements Slides: IETF70-6MAN-node-reqs-update.pdf Brian Haberman, speaking for the unavoidably absent John Loughney, discussed the question of updating RFC 4294. There are basically two questions. Should we do the work and if yes, how should we proceed? Several individuals indicated that the update should be done and there was no opposition. Based on the consensus that the work should be done, Brian further asked how to proceed. Three options were identified: 1. Simple update to cover base RFCs 2. #1 AND adding additional RFCs 3. #2 AND restructuring The ensuing discussion primarily focused on options 2 and 3 with most speakers supporting option 2. A recurring theme was the need for a definition of the minimal requirements for interoperability with organizations responsible for deployment (e.g. DoD and NIST) specifying additional deployment specific requirements. Others indicated that the current document currently contains very few MUSTs as it is. The use of conditional language to specify requirements for subsets of functionality was discussed. Brian Haberman requested that participants continue the discussion on the mailing list. IKEv2 issues (Pasi Eronen) ===================== Draft: draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-ipv6-config-01.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-ipv6-ikev2.pdf This draft addresses an issue with IPv6 configuration in IKEv2 for remote access VPNs. There was general agreement that IKEv2 is broken and this works needs to be done. Discussion focused on whether the link model utilized was representative enough and potential scalability issues. Yari Arkko indicated that he liked the draft and supported the effort. A change is needed and there is a small window of opportunity to make this change. Bob Hinden asked if it was appropriate for the 6MAN WG to do the work. Yari prefers for the security ADs to sponsor the work with strong participation from this WG and will take the action to initiate a conversation with them. Reserved IIDs (Suresh Krishnan) ======================== Document: draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-02.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-reserved-iids.pdf Suresh presented this proposal to create a centralized repository for reserved interface identifiers. Brian Haberman pointed out that we already do this for the multicast address space (RFC 3307). No one opposed the adoption of this as a working group document. DHCP options in RAs (Suresh Krishnan) ================================ Document: draft-krishnan-intarea-ra-dhcp-00.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-dhc-options-in-ra.pdf Suresh presented a draft that defines a generic neighbor discovery option for carry DHCP options over IPv6 Router Advertisements. The rationale included a desire to avoid parallel definition and duplicate standardization as well as the potential to share code. During the discussion phase, several individuals addressed concerns with the proposal. Alain Durand stated that this draft had been discussed yesterday in the DHCP WG and the sense of the DHC meeting was that it was a bad idea. Bob Hinden pointed out that IF this goes forward the WG would need to classify current options. There is probably a very small set of options that this would be appropriate for. Erik Nordmark stated that this creates more problems than it solves. The more places we put this kind of information, the more work we have to do to resolve what happens when you get contradictory information from another method. We also need to be very specific about the lifetime of this information. Dave Thaler pointed out that without this proposal, anyone who wants to put the same information in RAs and DHCP must come to the IETF for review and approval. Ralph Droms agreed that by doing this we eliminate possible oversight. One individual did indicate that this was a good idea, but we need to be very careful about what information is allowed to be carried. Yari Arkko concluded the discussion by stating that he did not support this draft. Address Selection (2 presentations) ========================== Document: draft-arifumi-6man-addr-select-sol-00.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-arifumi-addr-select.pdf Arifumi Matsumoto presented the above draft. Erik Nordmark stated that the document talks about a node with multiple interfaces. How would you deal with the situation where you got multiple responses? The chairs asked the room who had read the document and who thought it was ready for to be adopted as a working group item. There was a small set of people answering yes to both. Further discussion was directed to the list. Document: draft-fujikawa-ipv6-src-addr-selection-01.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-fujikawa-src-addr-selection.pdf Fujikawa Kenji presented the above draft. Time ran out and the chairs requested that the WG read the document and take the discussion to the mailing list. On-link issues & 2461bis (Hemant Singh) ============================== Document: draft-wbeebee-on-link-and-off-link-determination-00.txt Document: draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-problems-00.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-offlink.pdf Hemant Singh presented a discussion on the on- and off-link issues with RFC 4861. Hosts in aggregated routed networks are offlink. There is data forwarding confusion on IPv6 hosts behind modems in aggregated routed networks. RFC 4861 is ambiguous on how to configure RA on a router to signal off-link. The author wishes to clear up ambiguity in the specification. Erik Nordmark said this sounds like an implemention bug. Bob Hinden indicated that more discussion and analysis are needed before we can adopt as a working group item. He directed discussion to the mailing list. Dickson draft (Brian Dickson) ====================== Document: draft-dickson-v6man-new-autoconf-00.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-New-Autoconf.pdf Brian Dickson presented a proposal that is motivated by looking at wide and timely IPv6 deployment and issues of scaling in a mixed IPv4 and IPv6 network. The draft proposes the use of prefix lengths other than 64 bits in certain circumstances. The purpose of this draft is to foster discussion and collect some analysis for consideration. Brian wants to know if we can make a small change to improve scalability? An animated discussion followed Brian's presentation. Tony Hain stated that he thought this was a really bad idea. It breaks current operations, the fundamental premise that it helps scaling is flawed, and the proposal is ten years too late. Marla Azinger stated that the document was too long and she was disappointed that the author didn't get to the point thus obscuring the message. She felt we couldn't decide today because more work is required to clarify the arguments and proposal. Alain Durand voiced some sympathy with the idea that maybe /64 is not the right thing; however, he felt that we need to separate the policy and technical discussions. Margaret Wasserman pointed that while we could decide whether or not this is good technically we are not in a position to force a policy change. Another speaker felt the analysis was good, but the idea was bad. Erik Nordmark seconded the concern that the timing is wrong (it is either 10 years too late or 20 years too early). He also is not concerned about current IPv6 address consumption rate. Another individual pointed out that we don't fully appreciate the impacts of this on other organizations. Brian Dickson concluded with the comment that making these changes later would require re-prefixing and re-numbering. A parallel move towards incremental changes would not impede deployment. The chairs asked the room whether the work should continue. Many hands said no and a few indicated yes. ULA-C Analysis (Margaret Wasserman) ============================= Document: draft-mrw-6man-ulac-analysis-01.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-ULAC-Analysis.pdf Margaret Wasserman presented her draft on an analysis of Centrally Assigned Unique Local Addresses (ULA-Cs). The draft discusses the motivation, costs, and some of the arguments for and against ULA-Cs in an attempt to help the IETF IPv6 community reach consensus on this issue. The questions for the WG are: 1) Should some kind of centrally-assigned ULA be available; and if so 2) should they be defined in the IETF? Bob Hinden's draft was produced with the motivation that he wanted a good example of what it could look like if the IETF wanted to do this. He is not a strong proponent. The world has gotten used to local addresses, and he doesn't want the lack of net 10 type addresses to slow down v6 deployment. Kurt Lindquist felt that ULA-Cs create a sixth RIR and is a bad idea. Alain Durand indicated that this is a technology versus policy issue, and he's not sure where it should be discussed. Tony Hain indicated that we are not creating a registry. Instead, we are creating an instruction to the registry community. Someone will create this and do it anyway if the IETF doesn't. Dave Thaler indicated that the benefits don't outweigh the costs. The chairs asked that folks read the draft and comment on mailing list. The meeting adjourned. --------------010002010600050801070107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------010002010600050801070107-- From narbgzuq@lsharrison.com Fri Dec 14 16:47:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3INg-0004kW-Mm for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:47:40 -0500 Received: from [221.127.60.210] (helo=[221.127.60.210]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3INf-0003Xm-Lq for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:47:40 -0500 Received: from joey ([146.173.195.188] helo=joey) by [221.127.60.210] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1jJiEH-000WEF-nM for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:47:50 +0800 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:47:37 +0800 From: "Jessie nar" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: pmacilla Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea greeting ipngwg-archive Not only are the meds cheap, you are purchasing through a 100% legal site http://numeralsentence.com Jessie nar From DrewstammerGill@ponpon-village.net Fri Dec 14 17:52:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3JOf-0005Rf-N7; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:52:45 -0500 Received: from [201.244.17.122] (helo=enlace02) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3JOe-000555-91; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:52:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host10262032.ponpon-village.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id QuQ7FQiA03.107850.ipf.qx3.8351481674535 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:52:19 +0500 Message-ID: <458f01c83ea4$03a1e780$6201a8c0@Enlace02> From: "Dewey Alvarado" To: Cc: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_3470D_01C83F26.CD3FB270-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 15 11:32:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ZvW-00037h-8c; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:46 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ZvU-00037b-ER for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3ZvS-0007Ut-U0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Dec 2007 11:31:43 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBFGVge8032721; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:42 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBFGVTZI017040; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:31:40 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thread-Index: Acg+WM5FFWKqN7nFSkOVU0LAMq5GfQACEmOgADWaX+A= References: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EBE@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><0B6083A4-C0CD-4DFC-9424-A4E0ADC727C1@nokia.com><6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA542EC5@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se><4756F729.8060003@cisco.com><200712141353.lBEDrpZT007661@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" , "Thomas Narten" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2007 16:31:36.0708 (UTC) FILETIME=[F63E2C40:01C83F37] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=14406; t=1197736302; x=1198600302; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Here=20is=20the=20reference=20to=206.3. 4=20text=20that=20is=20ambigious=20text |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Thomas=20Narten=22=20; bh=1EMGKcau73ibJfyi723kvJZ0kRs1jXEWlloD7lXfsK0=; b=R2AEQzsP2mK1KwrT23+X6EuDJEIKHH0/X87RXel3Y1kS2P7mGloX1yWLgI P5Mdz5IPGs4ckny8MyZatb8SBI+EPpDZsno6q8sSlAv9EwnKtvx5FjssXd6z rOvaTFhyUk; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b360bd6cb019c35178e5cf9eeb747a5c Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Erik Nordmark , bob.hinden@nokia.com, Suresh Krishnan , "Josh Littlefield \(joshl\)" Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thomas, Sorry, there was a typo in a statement I made in which "router" should be "host". The erroneous statement is snipped below. "it's left to the vendor if they would like to do any optimized processing of Redirect along with L2 header when the router has all information for L2 media type." Hemant -----Original Message----- From: Hemant Singh (shemant)=20 Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 12:16 PM To: Thomas Narten Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com; Erik Nordmark; IETF IPv6 Mailing List; Suresh Krishnan; Josh Littlefield (joshl) Subject: RE: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text Thomas, Thanks for this email. First, here is a running list of why we think our on-and-off-link draft should exist. 1. We presented to the IPv6 community that RFC 4861 does not include in section 8.3, a case for when Redirect does not include Target Link-layer address option (TLLAO). Such a Redirect is common to be encountered in an IPv6 network. Therefore either a 4861bis discusses it or our draft does. 2. Since Redirect can suggest a better first-hop that could be on- or off-link, our intent is to dissect Redirect more carefully because we have found show stopper issues with on- vs. off-link determination in an aggregation routed network. We think we do provide ample evidence in line below for our case of confusion related to on- vs. off-link in the ND RFC. 3. We see hosts are confused between the boundary of what should DHCPv6 handle and dole out vs. what should ND handle and dole out. Can the community show what text in RFC 3315 or RFC 4861 and 4862 defines such boundaries or the justification for such boundaries - this is a deployment that includes both a DHCPv6 server and an IPv6 default router. Our draft is defining such boundaries, although that is not the primary intent of our draft. An example of hosts being confused about this boundary is shown in bug 2.3 of our ND implementation draft - draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-problems-00.=20 Now, please see in line below for our responses included between and or and . -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Narten [mailto:narten@us.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:54 AM To: Hemant Singh (shemant) Cc: Josh Littlefield (joshl); Erik Nordmark; IETF IPv6 Mailing List; bob.hinden@nokia.com; Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Here is the reference to 6.3.4 text that is ambigious text "Hemant Singh (shemant)" writes: > [4. Redirect Clarifications > Redirects are not sent by aggregation routers except when two hosts=20 > behind the same bridge CPE, with no router between the host and the=20 > aggregation router, communicate with each other. The aggregation=20 > router sends a Redirect to a source host which communicates with a=20 > destination host behind the same bridge CPE if the router can make a=20 > determination that the two hosts lie behind the same bridge CPE.=3D20 OK.=20 > The ICMP field of the Redirect message has a Target Address field. In=20 > the presence of a Target link-layer address option included in the=20 > Redirect, the host MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination. No. A node MUST always be allowed to send out an NS if it has been told a destination is on-link (whether by PIO or by a redirect). Sure, in most cases after a redirect it shouldn't need to do so, but it must have the option of doing so. What if garbage collections times-out the associated link-layer address? Garbage collection will need to issue a unicast NS that is a Neighbor Unreachability detection. Our text says MUST NOT issue an NS to resolve the destination - this is a multicast NS. But if NUD fails, you are totally correct that the node will have to send out an NS. This texts need rewording in our draft. > In the absence of any Target link-layer address option included in the > Redirect, host behavior depends upon the type of the target.=3D20 > If the target is a router, that router's link-local address is the=20 > Target Address. The source IP address of a Redirect is always a=20 > link-local address. If the target link-local address matches the=20 > source IP address, then the L2 header of the Redirect message tells=20 > the host the link-layer address of the target. I do not believe ND has ever _required_ looking at the L2 header to extract information. I.e, that is why we have Link-Layer Adress options as part of ND, so that the ND processing can be media-idependent.=20 Makes sense to have ND processing be media-independent. However, we should still have such text but preceded by comments like, "it's left to the vendor if they would like to do any optimized processing of Redirect along with L2 header when the router has all information for L2 media type." Makes sense to have a router vendor have such flexibility. > The purpose of such a Redirect message is to tell a host that a=20 > destination which the host assumes to be on-link is in fact off-link. > If the target address does not match the source IP address, then the=20 > Redirect target is another router than the router that issued the=20 > Redirect. In this case, the host MUST issue an NS to resolve the=20 > link-local address of the target if the host does not already have=20 > this address in its neighbor cache. This last sentence is not needed, as one always issues an NS to do address resolution if one doesn't have the necessary information.. That is pretty basic stuff. Sounds fine. We can remove such a statement. > This Redirect indicates that the destination is off-link, but the host > MUST use a different router than the one issuing the Redirect in order > to reach the destination. In summary, if the target of a Redirect is a > router, then the destination is off-link and the host MUST NOT issue=20 > an NS to resolve a destination other than a link-local address.=3D20 I don't know why all this MUST NOT stuff is needed. The host doesn't need to explicitly know that a destination is on or off-link. This all just happens correctly as part of ND processing. The consequences of "correct ND processing" need to be ironed out because: 1) hosts don't always implement ND in the same way, 2) routers need to know what behavior to expect from hosts, and 3) RFC 3756, section 4.2.5 (Bogus On-Link Prefix) states "If a sending host thinks the prefix is on-link, it will never send a packet for that prefix to the router." 4) If a host incorrectly assumed a packet destination to be on-link when the host was supposed to treat the destination as off-link, the host can issue an NS to resolve the destination. The router may not respond to this NS and the host eventually times out sending the packet out. In an Ethernet LAN, the router will respond, but in an aggregated routed network, the aggregation router does not respond to any address resolution for non-link-local address from any client on the router upstream. The aggregated routed network for IETF folks is a point to point link topology. An example of such a router is a cable router terminating over 60,000 IPv6 cable modems with IPv6 hosts behind the modems. We have explained the aggregation router in numerous emails to IETF mailer. > If the target is a host, the target address is the same value as the=20 > ICMP Destination address. On receiving this Redirect, the source host=20 > MUST issue an NS to resolve a non-link-local destination if the host=20 > does not already have this information in its neighbor cache. Once the > destination host responds to the NS, the source host will thereafter=20 > send packets directly to the destination host. ] Again, I do not understand how the above text clarifies or otherwise changes anything in ND. We have this paragraph to discuss the Redirect case when no TLLAO is included in Redirect.=20 We have to complete the no TLLAO text for the case when the Target was a host vs. a router. > Such new text belongs in RFC 4861 but we ain't writing a 4861bis just=20 > yet. So where does such text go? It has been included in our=20 > on-and-off-link draft! Bottom line. I don't get why we continue to have this discussion. I remain unconvinced that there is a real problem here that needs fixing. The one thing that _might_ be worth putting in a document somewhere is a statement to the effect: A node only considers destinations to be on-link, if it has received an explicit indication that the target address is on-link (via a redirect) or if the address is covered by a prefix on-link indication (per a PIO option). Packets for all other destinations are forwarded through a neighboring router. Hmm, the text above still does not cover the two cases for on-link as specified in section 2.1 of the on-link definition. - a Neighbor Advertisement message is received for the (target) address, or - any Neighbor Discovery message is received from the address. For a third case, the on-link definition in section 2.1 of RFC 4861 does not mention the fact that manual configuration in out of scope of the ND RFC. Manual configuration is a can of worms that can mess up prefixes, prefix length, on- and off-link determination, and can cause security problems. Do you know what do host vendors tell us when we complained to them that their host was incorrectly adding a default route from a conjured up prefix and prefix length based on what the host got for a DHCPv6 address? The incorrect behavior causes a Show Stopper data forwarding problem in cable router for an IPv6 host. They tell us, gee, how do we know you didn't configure the default router manually? Do you want to deal with such comments. I would rather put some text in the RFC that says manual configuration is out of scope. That is why we have bullet 2 in our on-and-off-link drafts that says: [The on-link definition in section 2.1 of RFC 4861 (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," September 2007.) [ND] describes the only means for on-link determination. DHCPv6 or any other configuration on the host MUST NOT be used for on-link determination. Manual configuration of a host introduces its own set of security considerations and is beyond the scope of this document. Note that the on-link definition as specified by RFC 4861 (Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)," September 2007.) [ND] does not include manual configuration.] Further, Josh Littlefield from Cisco said something similar to your suggested text last week. We have to have ND specify that the default mode is off-link. See how even an author of the ND RFC can say one thing in an email when the ND RFC says another thing. Hesham emailed the text in double quotes below. "Instead, clearing the L flag means that the host should not assume that an address derived from this prefix is on-link." But the RFC text says the following about the same issue shown below in square brackets. =20 [Note, however, that a Prefix Information option with the on-link flag set to zero conveys no information concerning on-link determination and MUST NOT be interpreted to mean that addresses covered by the prefix are off-link.] We have to be careful when we say "not assume off-link" vs. "not assume on-link" or both. I think such text in the ND RFC is confusing when one could remove all this text about "not assuming on-link" and "not assuming off-link" in the RFC and replace it by what Josh suggested first- the default mode is off-link. Then reword some text around that. I will re-send Josh's email to this mailer soon. =20 But that said, ND has been around for more than 10 years now, has been implemented many times, and the vast majority of implementors have not been confused on this point from what I can tell. Even the implementation that triggered this discussion seems to concede it is not following the spec. Thus, I think the issue (to the degree that there might be one) is being blown way out of proportion. I suspect for the past ten years ND has been tested in Ethernet LAN networks (wired or wireless), or any cellular networks, and that too in on-link mode. We started testing ND eight months back with off-link since that is the only model for an aggregation router hosts. In our off-link test, a host is sent an RA with no PIO, but the host did not send all non-link-local traffic to the default router. Instead the host assumed on-link and when the host was asked to forward a packet out, the host issued an NS to resolve the destination. Since the aggregation router does not reply to any address resolution for non-link-local addresses from hosts on the router's upstream, the host keeps sending NS's while holding the packet in a queue. Eventually the host timed out and failed to send the packet out. The same problem exists when another destination pings this host and when host has to send a ping reply, the host tries again to issue NS and fails to send the reply. Incorrect on- vs. off-link determination caused this Showstopper problem in an aggregation router network. See bug 2.1 in draft-wbeebee-nd-implementation-problems-00.txt that reports this problem. Do NOTE this bug occurs in an Ethernet LAN too, but the effect of the bug is less severe in Ethernet LAN because the router can respond to the NS. We want on-and-off-link iron clad in the RFC because if a slight mistake is made, one can see a show stopper problem for data forwarding. First, congratulations are due to the ND authors for designing ND well to work in yet another network like the cable aggregated routed network. But welcome to some minor demands from folks form such a network. I hope Alain Durand from Comcast is listening on this thread. Hemant Don't we have real work to do here? Thomas - Wes and Hemant -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 15 13:08:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3bQG-0003Bb-Du; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3bQE-0003BW-NJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J3bQE-0004Di-8F for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Dec 2007 13:07:21 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBFI7JbX001271; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:19 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBFI7EZG009358; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:07:19 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.40]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:13 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4762DA5A.4000207@innovationslab.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IETF 70 6MAN Minutes Thread-Index: Acg+icdruVfCMdPMTZmDMlVu9iYMWgAu3Jfg References: <4762DA5A.4000207@innovationslab.net> From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "Brian Haberman" , "IPv6 WG Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2007 18:07:14.0150 (UTC) FILETIME=[52065860:01C83F45] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=571; t=1197742039; x=1198606039; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=shemant@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Hemant=20Singh=20(shemant)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20IETF=2070=206MAN=20Minutes |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Brian=20Haberman=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22IPv6=20WG=20Mailing=20List=22= 20; bh=NcNAZJqhqnfGv47TLWtayq8BfHFlqnzpQ9ULpBGWYTI=; b=VKs3/fLggHxD8C8h6za5KSZOTfO6TnzPpFAW8i9oqz/zkQ/1khrdS6cxPB CYy83r+EUl/T6LfptLj4iIAlvA677qFM3aC+axiFcd8X+qJsZJ5RHxVXAKcD MXh4K1lNAv; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=shemant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Subject: RE: IETF 70 6MAN Minutes X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Minutes look OK to me. You're welcome to ship 'em to the IETF URL. Thanks. Hemant=20 -----Original Message----- From: Brian Haberman [mailto:brian@innovationslab.net]=20 Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:33 PM To: IPv6 WG Mailing List Subject: IETF 70 6MAN Minutes All, Attached are the minutes taken for our meeting in Vancouver. Many thanks to Karen O'Donoghue for acting as minute taker and Suresh Krishnan for being the Jabber scribe. Please review the minutes and provide any changes, clarifications, or updates. 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At Vancouver, I believe, my sol document was adopted as 6man wg item. Is that correct ? Sincerely yours. Address Selection (2 presentations) ========================== Document: draft-arifumi-6man-addr-select-sol-00.txt Slides: IETF70-6MAN-arifumi-addr-select.pdf Arifumi Matsumoto presented the above draft. Erik Nordmark stated that the document talks about a node with multiple interfaces. How would you deal with the situation where you got multiple responses? The chairs asked the room who had read the document and who thought it was ready for to be adopted as a working group item. There was a small set of people answering yes to both. Further discussion was directed to the list. Brian Haberman wrote: > All, > Attached are the minutes taken for our meeting in Vancouver. Many > thanks to Karen O'Donoghue for acting as minute taker and Suresh > Krishnan for being the Jabber scribe. Please review the minutes and > provide any changes, clarifications, or updates. > > Regards, > Brian & Bob > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Arifumi Matsumoto IP Technology Expert Team Secure Communication Project NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories E-mail: arifumi@nttv6.net -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From GertrudecoquinaSamuels@bikeraft.com Mon Dec 17 02:23:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4AKJ-0003xt-Ge; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:23:47 -0500 Received: from 125-26-162-49.adsl.totbb.net ([125.26.162.49] helo=jok20) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4AKI-0006Pd-I1; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:23:47 -0500 Received: from obstacle by bikeraft.com with SMTP id IALjRssObc for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:23:54 +1200 From: "Eileen Hendrickson" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4GUA-0005HF-1O for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:58:22 -0500 Received: from [201.51.223.88] (helo=20151223088.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4GU9-0008JK-31 for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:58:21 -0500 Received: by 10.238.65.58 with SMTP id LPUUMQqkSuxdL; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:56:32 -0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.177.64 with SMTP id XIXbvKhYIGHTXN.3496205187947; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:56:30 -0200 (GMT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:56:27 -0200 From: "Dietmar Dalen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: rodnicla Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050707020505010206070207" X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 --------------050707020505010206070207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit feel better about yourself once you enlarge your penis http://www.pvcnxn.com/ --------------050707020505010206070207 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit feel better about yourself once you enlarge your penis http://www.pvcnxn.com/
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The chairs wish to confirm this action on the mailing list. Please indicate your agreement or disagreement with this action by January 4, 2008. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 17 17:15:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4OEO-0001om-4s; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:14:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4Ntl-0007Nh-FP for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:53:17 -0500 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4Ntl-0002UZ-3s for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:53:17 -0500 Received: from ([128.244.206.192]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.63504798; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:53:06 -0500 Message-ID: <4766EFC3.8020008@innovationslab.net> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:53:07 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arifumi Matsumoto References: <4762DA5A.4000207@innovationslab.net> <4766073A.8030301@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <4766073A.8030301@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:14:35 -0500 Cc: IPv6 WG Mailing List Subject: Re: IETF 70 6MAN Minutes X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org My notes show us adopting this document. Regards, Brian Arifumi Matsumoto wrote: > Hi, > > from this minutes I couldn't tell my document was adopted > as 6man wg item. At Vancouver, I believe, my sol document > was adopted as 6man wg item. Is that correct ? > > Sincerely yours. > > Address Selection (2 presentations) ========================== > Document: draft-arifumi-6man-addr-select-sol-00.txt Slides: > IETF70-6MAN-arifumi-addr-select.pdf > > Arifumi Matsumoto presented the above draft. Erik Nordmark stated that > the document talks about a node with multiple interfaces. How would you > deal with the situation where you got multiple responses? The chairs > asked the room who had read the document and who thought it was ready > for to be adopted as a working group item. There was a small set of > people answering yes to both. Further discussion was directed to the list. > > Brian Haberman wrote: >> All, >> Attached are the minutes taken for our meeting in Vancouver. Many >> thanks to Karen O'Donoghue for acting as minute taker and Suresh >> Krishnan for being the Jabber scribe. Please review the minutes and >> provide any changes, clarifications, or updates. >> >> Regards, >> Brian & Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 17 17:15:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4OEP-0001oz-54; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:14:37 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4O1c-0007dP-0T for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:01:24 -0500 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4O1b-0003Ax-Q5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:01:23 -0500 Received: from ([128.244.206.192]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.58388178; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:00:59 -0500 Message-ID: <4766F19B.1080904@innovationslab.net> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:00:59 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IPv6 WG Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:14:35 -0500 Subject: 6MAN WG Consensus Call: Adopting draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-02.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org 6MAN WG, The consensus at the Vancouver meeting was to adopt draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-02.txt as a WG document. The chairs want to confirm this action on the mailing list. Please indicate your agreement or disagreement with this action by January 4, 2008. 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RFC 2461:

Host Description:

4.2. Router Advertisement Message Format

Router Lifetime

16-bit unsigned integer. The lifetime associated with the default router in units of seconds. The maximum value corresponds to 18.2 hours. A Lifetime of 0 indicates that the router is not a default router and SHOULD NOT appear on the default router list. The Router Lifetime applies only to the router's usefulness as a default router; it does not apply to information contained in other message fields or options. Options that need time limits for their information include their own lifetime fields.

Router Description:

6.2.1. Router Configuration Variables

AdvDefaultLifetime

The value to be placed in the Router Lifetime field of Router Advertisements sent from the interface, in seconds. MUST be either zero or between MaxRtrAdvInterval and 9000 seconds. A value of zero indicates that the router is not to be used as a default router.

Default: 3 * MaxRtrAdvInterval

 

When sending RA the maximum lifetime that can be advertised is 9000 seconds, but when receiving the RA in Host, RFC does not specify

any limit other than 18.2 hr(65535 ushort max value).  

A router sending RA with a lifetime of more than 9000 seconds is an RFC violation. But at the same time a host discarding such an RA is also RFC violation

Please guide me in this regard...

 
Regards,
Sandeep
********************************************************************************************************
 This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
 
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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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B19b0P8AxpS5YkuaWCwdXbsU/wC3/wCPQdMCy008MEZQiTzG/YKuyMzFmoNp4IxIaQ2v3hCjyNgU p5eaNse1CBiQ4cdcNqMmfmbuWpARrEgUq9f0UQbWHh+c+R6Pmy7eONUZu/7Rh19UTqc0iXezwKMB JomWYUs7+rI6kSwlbHz67UdKRcEvgvjzfdmdtjYo6r2hm4eiMgXiQ2UoiMyIH7epUADSBJs2usgL Y0TRGU41PmjqGTkhrN3opDMTE0y9b9tECJBgXrAPxU5O+Yv4+qAiCS924r5JSMiPa9yIjMiJ+3qa qJEiDECNOtO9DViWP3bVMZveXssq+KEcAAjETOU3etaqMTKkQ1g6hZ4libXAl4oRJdsA3cjqRLA+ 6OK9xyO+Tr/NlOb++OWzcowzc0bJdqMjIyzRyyfr1xQJkSI1jHBTGb3l7LKvioTf2Ry2b0dQlydw 6lRzHlFoxUpRJGYHjihEEiQL5tqOpGZiTh/NCJOYi8r5SXN1nUoQz0cmzdtRhORlZl2N2pyQaXRA 8EKtIWFShm5pWy7VCb+yOWzejCQMwT9oqEYyLTmXke1COAA/01//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C84423.CD5C9500-- From ElainefeatherbedPonce@americanlawyer.com Fri Dec 21 22:30:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5v4N-0006Q1-Lz; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:30:35 -0500 Received: from [200.119.230.190] (helo=ingtlr7c0w0v9t) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 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