From creteee@investorsgroup.com Tue May 01 01:40:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hil6P-00007C-Nj for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 01:40:41 -0400 Received: from [60.20.76.52] (helo=investorsgroup.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hil6O-0006se-8V for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 01:40:41 -0400 Message-ID: <04e501c78c01$3dbb76f0$2789f9e0@ihepaticaw> Reply-To: "Lymanb Valenciak" From: "Lymanb Valenciak" To: Subject: As inactive Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 13:40:35 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_00D4B57B.A32A3AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_00D4B57B.A32A3AB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4B57B.A32A3AB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4B57B.A32A3AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence recall of certain Iams and Eukanuba products. Menu Brands lists the brands on its food companies, including Procter & Gamble Co.Proctor & Gamble announced Friday the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet ------=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4B57B.A32A3AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company
= Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; 3DANN =
store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after
=

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have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence recall of certain Iams and Eukanuba products. Menu Brands lists the brands on its food companies, including Procter & Gamble Co.Proctor & Gamble announced Friday the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet
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[196.219.155.9] (helo=host-196.219.9.155.tedata.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HinLT-00082A-OJ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 04:04:31 -0400 Received: from [79.206.168.73] (helo=ndjpa) by host-196.219.9.155.tedata.net with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1IxMw-0006Nk-NM; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:09:22 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c78c1b$368eead0$49a8ce4f@ndjpa> From: "Gwendolyn" To: Subject: It shows you how to secure a web service using WSIT features. Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:04:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 CDPN Really Warming Up! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.0675 UP 4% Investors are taking notice of CDPN, with hot news, volume rising, and price on a steady climb. This is is on the hot list. Get on CDPN first thing Tuesday! The Solaris OS includes an iSCSI target (an OpenSolaris project) and initiator. As disks are added to pools, the additional storage is automatically used from that point forward. 5 is available in Java EE 5 SDK Update 2, which you can download from the Java EE Downloads page. This method of using FC can lead to more and more problems. Objects may have variable length, unlike standard SCSI block devices. createQuery(ejbql); query. NDMP is implemented in the Sun StorageTek 5320 NAS Appliance. A LIKE expression determines whether a string matches a pattern. If you don't use generics, you won't find those bugs until the application runs. ZFS incorporates many features and options not covered in this guide. Often applications that use Java Persistence execute queries that return a collection of objects. If the client and the service are in different security domains they have no direct trust relationship. And, every FCA corresponds with one Fibre Channel Port (FP) instance. NDMP is implemented in the Sun StorageTek 5320 NAS Appliance. The Facade creates a query using the Java Persistence Query Language to find all items in the database. Determine which devices should be included in which pool. As any one file system uses space, that space is reserved for that file system until the space is released back to the pool by removing the file(s) occupying the space. You can download the sample archive for the tip Using Security Annotations in Enterprise Beans. In the running example, two bodies of JBOD ("just a bunch of disks" or non-RAID managed storage) are attached to the server. These are X509Token assertions. Registration is complimentary, but space is limited. You can download the SDK from the Java EE Downloads page. The first backslash in each method call is processed by the Java compiler and the second backslash is processed by the Java Persistence Query Language compiler. It handles all of the details of how relational data is mapped to Java objects, and it standardizes object-relational mapping. OSD is standardized at the T10 Technical Committee web site. From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 01 05:12:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HioPG-0001PH-4A; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:12:22 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HioGa-0006No-VW for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:03:25 -0400 Received: from mtagate6.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.139]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HioGY-0004g6-Ah for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:03:24 -0400 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate6.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4193LGC209856 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:03:21 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.228]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l4193Lif2711726 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:03:21 +0100 Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4193KZc017871 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:03:21 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4193KZR017868; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:03:20 +0100 Received: from [9.4.210.177] ([9.4.210.177]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA358296; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:19 +0200 Message-ID: <46370262.6080809@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:03:30 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Theo de Raadt References: <200704301526.l3UFQHeK003615@cvs.openbsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200704301526.l3UFQHeK003615@cvs.openbsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, bob.hinden@nokia.com, tim@mentat.com, deraadt@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Theo, Congratulations. You've joined the other 20 or so people whose mail my machine will delete unread from now on. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 01 05:57:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hip6Y-000519-Lw; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:57:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hip6X-00050M-5g for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:57:05 -0400 Received: from mux2.uit.no ([129.242.5.252]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hip6V-0004pl-Mj for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:57:05 -0400 Received: from shimmer.student.uit.no (shimmer.student.uit.no [129.242.80.34]) by mux2.uit.no (8.13.8/8.13.6/Mux) with ESMTP id l419unCL043602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 May 2007 11:56:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from chandra.student.uit.no (chandra.student.uit.no [129.242.80.32]) by shimmer.student.uit.no (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l419un5e003922; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:56:49 +0200 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:56:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Roger Jorgensen X-X-Sender: rogerj@chandra.student.uit.no To: Brian E Carpenter In-Reply-To: <46370262.6080809@zurich.ibm.com> Message-ID: References: <200704301526.l3UFQHeK003615@cvs.openbsd.org> <46370262.6080809@zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: : ok X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.61 on 129.242.5.252 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, roger@jorgensen.no, Theo de Raadt Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, 1 May 2007, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Theo, > > Congratulations. You've joined the other 20 or so people > whose mail my machine will delete unread from now on. what about keeping those sort of personal stuff out of this (and other) and other mailinglist? I care zip about you or him, I'm here on this list to follow a discussion about something a bit more important. -- ------------------------------ Roger Jorgensen | - ROJO9-RIPE - RJ85P-NORID roger@jorgensen.no | - IPv6 is The Key! ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 01 07:17:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiqMK-0007RB-4B; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:17:28 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiqMI-0007R4-4C for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:17:26 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([213.136.24.43]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiqMG-0007ek-I2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:17:26 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87160140C19F; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:17:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <463721C1.1030100@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:17:21 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.10) Gecko/20070221 Thunderbird/1.5.0.10 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Klein References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> <20070426105836.GA67535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> <18d24aa20704301124r26112198y152ff79d2f94815d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <18d24aa20704301124r26112198y152ff79d2f94815d@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.1/3188/Tue May 1 12:24:57 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0251923239==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0251923239== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF35471C86D76A0C12F5E9904" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF35471C86D76A0C12F5E9904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric Klein wrote: > I have just noticed that this topic seems to be going on simutaniously > on both the IPv6 and v6OPS mailing lists. > =20 > The two threads are not coordinated, but both seem very concerned with > IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues. [..] > It concerns me that the two teams are working seperatly to solve the > same issue. You misunderstand. These are two separate groups, although some members of them fall under both groups and participate in both. Which is a good thing as without one the other doesn't exist and vice versa, thus feed back from both into both is very important. Unfortunately not everybody can participate in both as some people have networks to run etc ;) To make it a bit clearer: The ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de list is for IPv6 Operational matters. This list contains folks who have actual have "enable" or "root" on the network routers around the globe and who can take immediate effect on their workings. As such these people have fortunately, where possible, already taken action to resolve this issue by filtering out Routing Header Type 0 from propagating through their networks. Most of them are awaiting a fix from Juniper though, to resolve it for those routers which actually comprise the largest amount of the IPv6 backbones. These people operating them do this for the benefit of their own organization and thus take their decisions based on the simple metric: does it impact revenue or my operating of the network. As it does pose a danger it is a simple equation to resolve it. The general consensus in this community seems to be to filter out IPv6 Routing Headers of Type 0 completely. The only argument raised by some is that it is useful for 'reverse traceroute', but as that doesn't work when a network properly does uRPF (which it should be doing!) this is far from useless in most cases anyway. uRPF in general makes RH0 completely useless anyway. Having uRPF enabled in most cases mitigates this attack already perfectly fine. Unless of course folks have defaults pointing both ways or the RH0 path is following the correct interface direction. Hard but possibly doable. The ipv6@ietf.org list is for the standardization of the IPv6 protocol. Here is specified how those routers should behave, what the packet data should/must look like etc. There are a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds all with different interests in this group, as such, as they don't all have the same goal, not all can be satisfied in one go, unlike the operators who run their network for profit, and consensus have to be reached first amongst all the parties for this to be resolved. Although this group defines the initial RFC, the Operators, next to the Vendors, actually implement them. The standard in the end thus is actually what both groups together come up with. As IPv6 is not a standard yet, we'll just have to write a draft to amend the current IPv6 RFC to resolve this issue. All that said though, as the Operative community is already mostly filtering out RH0, there seems to be little options left where RH0 still is useful... Greets, Jeroen --------------enigF35471C86D76A0C12F5E9904 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkY3IcEuFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58IxuwAKCyPNoMVBbxVBvWpb5RSHWdYmup DQCgt1HvO+rB5XHpHtacBEtqD0FdffQ= =0fYB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF35471C86D76A0C12F5E9904-- --===============0251923239== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0251923239==-- From debsonnnie@nextava.com Tue May 01 07:46:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiqoD-0006E6-Kt for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:46:17 -0400 Received: from [87.228.25.196] (helo=almer0b60c6461) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hiqo9-0004Ta-BV for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:46:17 -0400 To: "jessalin brittaney" Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:46:11 +0400 From: "tony meridith" Sender: "tony meridith" Subject: Hilda MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <133ec01c78be6$509eecc0$c419e457@almer0b60c6461> Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_130A0_01C78C07.CD876250" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 90e8b0e368115979782f8b3d811b226b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_130A0_01C78C07.CD876250 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_130A1_01C78C07.CD876250" ------=_NextPart_001_130A1_01C78C07.CD876250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or by the loud hand of painting, always puts. Never does any motion, sound, or light Appear to lift up from the lake; and preening, dancing on the basepaths, My soul lies cracked; and when, in its despair, Where, as I discover as I go through Escapees from the cold work of living, With my foot the supple ball, for perhaps they sit with their wives all day in the sun, XV. The International Circumpolar Stations: The Greely Expedition Beneath a pile of corpses, lying massed Against this sky no longer of our world. Life, or only joy, that stands out Right, and appears from here to be overcome Yes. The obvious A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur. snoozing. A schoolgirl on vacation gapes, Will sound, then the Lord's face will luminesce Given by nature will soak into it. ------=_NextPart_001_130A1_01C78C07.CD876250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Or by the loud hand of painting, always puts.
Never does any motion, sound, or light
Appear to lift up from the lake;
and preening, dancing on the basepaths,
My soul lies cracked; and when, in its despair,
Where, as I discover as I go through
Escapees from the cold work of living,
With my foot the supple ball, for perhaps
they sit with their wives all day in the sun,
XV. The International Circumpolar Stations: The Greely Expedition
Beneath a pile of corpses, lying massed
Against this sky no longer of our world.
Life, or only joy, that stands out
Right, and appears from here to be overcome
Yes. The obvious
A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.
snoozing. A schoolgirl on vacation gapes,
Will sound, then the Lord's face will luminesce
Given by nature will soak into it.
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ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 08:28:10 -0400 Received: from [189.11.85.229] (helo=xyxyhrc) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HirSg-0003L1-9i for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 08:28:10 -0400 Received: from vss ([165.55.168.64]) by xyxyhrc with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:28:01 -0300 Message-ID: <001501c78bec$2894eda0$40a837a5@vss> From: "Meg" To: Subject: L'Argentine et l'Espagne impressionnent . Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:28:01 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78BD3.03339160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b38aee91eedbacb27d28d558bc16c035 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78BD3.03339160 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C78BD3.03389A70" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C78BD3.03389A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is an argument I can accept, and markets work best when all actors = have as much information as possible. Gay Marriage Makes CentsBretton = Woods SystemThe Market For Divorce AdvertisementMost PopularLegalize = MarijuanaNominal vs. The only difference now is that they're determined = by popularity within each show. I have relief from the Nexium, but I = still have to be careful what and when I consume food. MYANMAR AIRWAYS = SUCKS. The show will remain in its current time slot of 2pm et and will air = encore marathons of the show each weekend. I still suffer with my reflux. What is to stop Canadians from traveling to the United States, buying a = few cases of incandescent bulbs, and bringing them home? A much more = economically sound policy would be some form of carbon tax on coal based = electricity. In Can Gas Tax Increases Be Deficit Reducing? Many times over the years = I've been told that heartburn and acid reflux disease (or GERD) are the = same thing. What Causes Heartburn? I will lose the weight and I will get my life back I hope! Love your blog, and btw from the looks of that pic you are definitely = not "cartoonish". Many people still swear by the soothing effects of = drinking milk before bed. NBC has posted a release on their site with more details and DirectTV = has also posted the news for their site visitors. "Il y a eu un certain = nombre d'erreurs de ma part, indiscutablement", dans sa campagne contre = Jacques Chirac, a-t-il par ailleurs reconnu. The resources below will = explain laryngeal cancer, list the risk factors, give you the symptoms, = and explain the diagnosis and treatment options. This is where Mohandas = Karamchand Gandhi becomes Mahatma Gandhi, or Gandhiji, or Bapu. If they = cant take the responsibility, then why did they have to touch my = belongings and whom should I complain? For more tips on controlling = nighttime heartburn, you can read this article on lessening nighttime = heartburn. While stress hasn't been linked directly to heartburn, it is known that = it can lead to behaviors that can trigger heartburn. , A part of The New York Times Company. Keep Track of All Your Favorite = Soaps Each week we bring you the latest on The Young and the Restless, = Passions,The Bold and the Beautiful, and more. The show will remain in its current time slot of 2pm et and will air = encore marathons of the show each weekend. Sometimes I would like to 'forget' that I have this condition, then I = eat something that very quickly, and it returns me to 'reality'. Would it not make more sense to use it internally to generate revenues = using your own cash, without having people you sold the software to = screwing up your betting lines? ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C78BD3.03389A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"toothache"
That is an argument I can accept, and = markets work=20 best when all actors have as much information as possible. Gay Marriage = Makes=20 CentsBretton Woods SystemThe Market For Divorce AdvertisementMost = PopularLegalize=20 MarijuanaNominal vs. The only difference now is that they're determined = by=20 popularity within each show. I have relief from the Nexium, but I still = have to be=20 careful what and when I consume food. MYANMAR AIRWAYS = SUCKS.
The show will remain in its current = time slot of=20 2pm et and will air encore marathons of the show each = weekend.
I still suffer with my = reflux.
What is to stop Canadians from = traveling to the=20 United States, buying a few cases of incandescent bulbs, and bringing = them home? A=20 much more economically sound policy would be some form of carbon tax on = coal based=20 electricity.
In Can Gas Tax Increases Be Deficit = Reducing? Many=20 times over the years I've been told that heartburn and acid reflux = disease (or GERD)=20 are the same thing.
What Causes Heartburn?
I will lose the weight and I will get = my life back=20 I hope!
Love your blog, and btw from the looks = of that pic=20 you are definitely not "cartoonish". Many people still swear by the = soothing effects=20 of drinking milk before bed.
NBC has posted a release on their site = with more=20 details and DirectTV has also posted the news for their site visitors. = "Il y a eu un=20 certain nombre d'erreurs de ma part, indiscutablement", dans sa campagne = contre=20 Jacques Chirac, a-t-il par ailleurs reconnu. The resources below will = explain=20 laryngeal cancer, list the risk factors, give you the symptoms, and = explain the=20 diagnosis and treatment options. This is where Mohandas Karamchand = Gandhi becomes=20 Mahatma Gandhi, or Gandhiji, or Bapu. If they cant take the = responsibility, then why=20 did they have to touch my belongings and whom should I complain? For = more tips on=20 controlling nighttime heartburn, you can read this article on lessening = nighttime=20 heartburn.
While stress hasn't been linked = directly to=20 heartburn, it is known that it can lead to behaviors that can trigger=20 heartburn.
, A part of The New York Times Company. = Keep Track=20 of All Your Favorite Soaps Each week we bring you the latest on The = Young and the=20 Restless, Passions,The Bold and the Beautiful, and more.
The show will remain in its current = time slot of=20 2pm et and will air encore marathons of the show each = weekend.
Sometimes I would like to 'forget' that = I have this=20 condition, then I eat something that very quickly, and it returns me = to=20 'reality'.
Would it not make more sense to use it = internally=20 to generate revenues using your own cash, without having people you sold = the=20 software to screwing up your betting lines?
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S59VVSJXp0Gt0Xif92oDeWiJGC0P1Y5LMUvd6KGeF4/Z14gjmb3E8Q7nbyNRMIrdl5HB1TxBVCUH ORpL1G7HWIQ1koBn03v/2IVxlu/aFC9laigP2QciAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78BD3.03339160-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 01 09:59:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hissy-0008AY-0h; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:59:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hissw-0008AT-R2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hisst-0000y8-2M for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4209B11425; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:59:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Theo de Raadt In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:17 CST." <200704301526.l3UFQHeK003615@cvs.openbsd.org> References: <200704301526.l3UFQHeK003615@cvs.openbsd.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 13:59:14 +0000 Message-ID: <88104.1178027954@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Brian E Carpenter , bob.hinden@nokia.com, tim@mentat.com, deraadt@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org theo, i feel your pain. but at the heart of your issues there's a logic error or perhaps two, and it's turning your input here into a distractive sideshow. the first error i saw was when you wanted to prevent certain people from having input into ietf decision making based on engineering errors they'd made in the past. i've made plenty of engineering errors in the past, some of which are enshrined in rfc's, yet i know i learned from those errors and am a better engineer for the learning. it's unwise to assume that someone who has erred is thus never again going to be useful, and also impractical to assume that noone else will listen to that person when forming consensus around new issues as they come up, no matter what errors they've made. the second and more important error is to assume that ietf is relevant. if you look carefully you'll see that the SSH protocol has been shaped far more by your OpenSSH effort than by the ietf or any commercial vendors, and SMTP likewise more by Sendmail and Postfix than by ietf or any commercial vendors, and DNS likewise more by BIND than by ietf or any commercial vendors. in the old days, ietf consensus could make or wreck an idea. these are not those days. compared to the power and relevance of open source software, ietf may as well be declared dead for all the relevance it has at this stage. again, i feel your pain. i'm still shaking my head over the lost opportunity that was A6/DNAME, and i've watched with horrified fascination as DNSSEC has taken over a dozen years to become the undeployable laboratory toy it is. i meant every word of and i understand perfectly well where your rage is coming from. but you've gotta stop harping on it and looking for folks to blame personally, it's not helping and it's not going to help and it's hurtful and going to hurt more. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 01 13:30:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiwB8-0003Jn-Hg; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:30:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiwB7-0003Jf-BU for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:30:17 -0400 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.236]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiwB6-0000EK-2Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:30:17 -0400 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so1984538wxd for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=sIgn9V84mv7D+AKoE/EJH47ElRBYAp0MePCYrVC8kbh0bFIrlXOMszQ64i5gOter5ktyBt2V/Wpm43xVn5LANRF7vVpiOMKNpElUWO5VQzSRKCxcJs3ekTTSW/yKMAQiwQQ9YlswRXgj9xw9HCf8EI8WIboEmicKd6eU6mDA2iE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=X9gTm8AOSNaVnddgmDFheip3aLDtFhTKdVI9s5hitYyuyJavpslq35cAi66cjAFtIBv3I8g2txgdqSRDMb//eZRvrgdd2hpKr0BIMN0PRrjnU2wYrigfNnjmmHNiVaM/Hy2I8gw0cUSi5gJRht1aFtJVhE4R0hRzgmEu187EWZI= Received: by 10.90.113.20 with SMTP id l20mr6292130agc.1178040615825; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.73.1 with HTTP; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <18d24aa20705011030k6d45c892vdfe4e7e958657ddb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:30:15 +0300 From: "Eric Klein" To: "Jeroen Massar" In-Reply-To: <463721C1.1030100@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> <20070426105836.GA67535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> <18d24aa20704301124r26112198y152ff79d2f94815d@mail.gmail.com> <463721C1.1030100@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1913727734==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --===============1913727734== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_280570_11377491.1178040615735" ------=_Part_280570_11377491.1178040615735 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 5/1/07, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Eric Klein wrote: > > I have just noticed that this topic seems to be going on simutaniously > > on both the IPv6 and v6OPS mailing lists. > > > > The two threads are not coordinated, but both seem very concerned with > > IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues. > [..] > > It concerns me that the two teams are working seperatly to solve the > > same issue. > > You misunderstand. These are two separate groups, although some members > of them fall under both groups and participate in both. Which is a good > thing as without one the other doesn't exist and vice versa, thus feed > back from both into both is very important. Unfortunately not everybody > can participate in both as some people have networks to run etc ;) Jeroen, I am sorry if I was unclear. I am on both lists and understand their diffrences. My concern is that both lists are reviewing this problem and looking for a solution independently of each other. So I am wondering which group is more appropriate for a soltuion, thus the topic would fall under: 1. IPv6 WG 2. v6OPS WG 3. Some sort of joint discussions 4. Inter-Area WG I do not see how the multiple lists will coordinate their solutions if there is confusion over the ownership of the issue. Eric ------=_Part_280570_11377491.1178040615735 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
 
On 5/1/07, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
Eric Klein wrote:
> I have just noticed that this topic seems to be going on simutaniously
> on both the IPv6 and v6OPS mailing lists.
>
> The two threads are not coordinated, but both seem very concerned with
> IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues.
[..]
> It concerns me that the two teams are working seperatly to solve the
> same issue.

You misunderstand. These are two separate groups, although some members
of them fall under both groups and participate in both. Which is a good
thing as without one the other doesn't exist and vice versa, thus feed
back from both into both is very important. Unfortunately not everybody
can participate in both as some people have networks to run etc ;)
 
 
Jeroen,
 
I am sorry if I was unclear. I am on both lists and understand their diffrences.
 
 
My concern is that both lists are reviewing this problem and looking for a solution independently of each other.
 
So I am wondering which group is more appropriate for a soltuion, thus the topic would fall under:
1. IPv6 WG
2. v6OPS WG
3. Some sort of joint discussions
4. Inter-Area WG
 
I do not see how the multiple lists will coordinate their solutions if there is confusion over the ownership of the issue.
 
Eric
 
------=_Part_280570_11377491.1178040615735-- --===============1913727734== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1913727734==-- From abnad.net@reefreef.com Tue May 01 17:14:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HizgM-0007Ar-FJ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 17:14:46 -0400 Received: from 201009202093.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.9.202.93] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hizg3-00038b-Vz for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 17:14:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c78c35$3abd7a80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Diego Sanders" To: Subject: Software At Low Pr1ce Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:59:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78C35.3ABD7A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78C35.3ABD7A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78C35.3ABD7A80" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78C35.3ABD7A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach ----- Alec would have run to the doo But I dont want to wait. And I Alec immediately looked to Bro Brodick hid his amusement. Tel ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78C35.3ABD7A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi


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Neville-Neil" To: james woodyatt In-Reply-To: <4E7CB2B0-2AA7-43DB-840A-437240A4B653@apple.com> References: <8A6FCC38-EA35-4EC2-A195-B8E327D50DA2@eads.net> <4E7CB2B0-2AA7-43DB-840A-437240A4B653@apple.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:43:04 -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > > On Apr 27, 2007, at 05:38, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: > > Bob Hinden wrote: > >> > >> Possible actions include: > >> > >> 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 > >> 2) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts and routers > >> 3) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts > >> 4) Limit it's usage to one RH0 per IPv6 packet and limit the > >> number of addresses in one RH0. > >> > >> These examples are not all mutually exclusive. > > > > From my perspective, RH0 should be deprecated to simplify IPv6 > > specification, stacks' implementations and suppress associated > > threats. Keeping the generic RH mechanism will be sufficient for > > new protocols to __carefully__ provide associated functionalities > > (if any), just like the designers of Mobile IPv6 did with RH2 > > (IMHO, processing limited to MIPv6 implementations, no external > > forwarding, one address max, ...). > > I agree that all transmissions of RH0 should be deprecated, and I > further recommend the draft standards be amended to require that RH0 > be rejected with an ICMP error when received at the first destination > and dropped silently in all other cases. This will allow operators > to identify and neutralize preemptively exactly those nodes which do > not comply with the amended standard. > Actually I like this solution. Now, not to beat a dead horse more, but when can a draft be set up to talk about this? I'd like to at least know that the code I'm implementing will be somewhat close to the final outcome of this discussion. Thanks, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcdbutner@onlink.net Tue May 01 18:37:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hj0y0-0008B2-92 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 18:37:04 -0400 Received: from sturgeon-cable13.onlink.net ([64.25.160.109] helo=sfcab2-13.onlink.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hj0xy-0000dv-BW for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 18:37:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c78b56$8a7db150$0674f834@Mine> From: "Efrain Link" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Or yourself graymont Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:37:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb BULLISH REPORT Adrenaline Nation Entertainment, Inc. _A_D N_N_ Major News was released today: _A_D_N N_ Adrenaline Nation Television Signs Affiliate Licensing Agreement With Global eNetwork to Provide eCommerce Solutions Through the iTV MediaPlex With TelvOS Operating System Powered by Narrowstep Keith Dressel is starting his next venture so it's time to pay attention now. 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See bullish news online right now, ipngwg-archive, call broker From insweptbe@dickinson.ctctel.com Tue May 01 21:00:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hj3D2-0000x6-It for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 21:00:44 -0400 Received: from 59-124-165-131.hinet-ip.hinet.net ([59.124.165.131] helo=dickinson.ctctel.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hj3Cy-00045R-Fo for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 21:00:44 -0400 Message-ID: <04c201c78d09$3fda36d0$1222d5f0@fendurec> Reply-To: "Mathewb Faye" From: "Mathewb Faye" To: Subject: But anything Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 09:03:47 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_02B8E40B.F00B7DA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02B8E40B.F00B7DA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_02B8E40B.F00B7DA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02B8E40B.F00B7DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02B8E40B.F00B7DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost
= WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their 3Dfood =
sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout
=

=
sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police
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<442752849104.585642065545@apollodecks.com> To: Ipngwg-archive Subject: v1aagr $1.78 Horace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------5F7E326A.32E9985F" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6437e26f1586b9f35812ea5ebeedf4ad --------------5F7E326A.32E9985F Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wherever man goes to dwell his character goes with him=2E
You don't have to be a man to fight for freedom=2E All you have to do is= to be an intelligent human being=2E
Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans=2E It is lovely to be s= illy at the right moment=2E
That one is learned who has reduced his learning to practice=2E
An archaeologist is the best husband a woman can have the older she gets= the more interested he is in her=2E
You have to set new goals every day=2E
We perceive and are affected by changes too subtle to be described=2E
A judge is a law student who grades his own papers=2E
Friends show me what I can do, foes teach me what I should do=2E
Absence sharpens love, presence strengthens it=2E
He who has made it a practice to lie and deceive his father, will be the= most daring in deceiving others=2E
Mere bashfulness without merit is awkwardness=2E
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1HjHII-0006VC-5W for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 02 May 2007 12:03:06 -0400 Received: from 49-49.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.49.49] helo=YOUR-590BA7F95F.tampabay.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjHIG-0002Y1-RA for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 02 May 2007 12:03:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c78cb1$d7d5c6c0$06eab454@YOUR590BA7F95F> From: "Jannie Winter" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Which whoever alstead Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:03:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb THE ALERT IS ON Adrenaline Nation Entertainment, Inc. _A_D N_N_ Major News was released today: _A_D_N N_ Adrenaline Nation Television Signs Affiliate Licensing Agreement With Global eNetwork to Provide eCommerce Solutions Through the iTV MediaPlex With TelvOS Operating System Powered by Narrowstep Keith Dressel is starting his next venture so it's time to pay attention now. Keith was a record executive responsible for over $4 billion in record sales. He personally helped generate 29 gold records, 26 platinum albums, and 85 gold singles. What he's doing now is so hot, so huge, it will blow your mind! Go read the news and go check out the website. This new program is incredible! _____ Information within this report contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the SEC Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. Past performance is never indicative of future results. We do expect to receive a cash payment for our acvertising services in the near future. The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation _____ WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK! See the hottest news of this gem, ipngwg-archive, call your broker From colome35@crystalsuccess.com Wed May 02 12:06:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjHLl-0007Cd-N4 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 02 May 2007 12:06:41 -0400 Received: from [125.45.176.227] (helo=crystalsuccess.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjHLf-0002mI-N7 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 02 May 2007 12:06:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c78d16$ee302cc0$00797dbc@A2487782852B478> From: "Jacklyn Little" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Be ignacio who matamoras Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 00:06:42 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb THE ALERT IS ON Adrenaline Nation Entertainment, Inc. _A_D N_N_ Major News was released today: _A_D_N N_ Adrenaline Nation Television Signs Affiliate Licensing Agreement With Global eNetwork to Provide eCommerce Solutions Through the iTV MediaPlex With TelvOS Operating System Powered by Narrowstep Keith Dressel is starting his next venture so it's time to pay attention now. Keith was a record executive responsible for over $4 billion in record sales. He personally helped generate 29 gold records, 26 platinum albums, and 85 gold singles. What he's doing now is so hot, so huge, it will blow your mind! Go read the news and go check out the website. This new program is incredible! - - - Information within this report contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the SEC Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. Past performance is never indicative of future results. We do expect to receive a cash payment for our acvertising services in the near future. The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation - - - TRADE SMART AND WIN! Check the news of this gem, ipngwg-archive, contact broker From ifyarneev@coxecurry.com Thu May 03 07:32:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjZXv-0001kd-0b; Thu, 03 May 2007 07:32:27 -0400 Received: from [221.132.23.68] (helo=coxecurry.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjZXr-0007vs-Eh; Thu, 03 May 2007 07:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: <097701c78d03$3fcd16c0$9072a0d0@cforeveradvk> Reply-To: "Joyce Hooksija" From: "Joyce Hooksija" To: , , Subject: grantee trigonometry Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:32:17 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 everything you're looking at right now and put your focus here. Major Financial News Was Released After the Market Close Today. HOT CHINA DEAL China Voice Holding Corp. C H V C Short Term Expected : 1 Dollar Here's the News China Voice Holding Corp. Completes Acquisition of StreamJet Inc. and Confirms Million Annual Revenue (Go read the news now) Wake up early and watch this stock trade. Information within this report contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the SEC Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. Past performance is never indicative of future results. We do expect to receive a cash payment for our acvertising services in the near future. The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation basket made it 111-73 heading into the fourth quarter. ''That's another Iverson said the Nuggets knew they'd have to start quickly and play relentless night. Carmelo Anthony augmented Iverson's night by adding 29 points in him ,000, according to his contract, which was obtained last week by the AP defense. ''That team can blow you out and they can score in bunches,'' he said annual contributions of ,000. By firing him, the school keeps the invested money, in the first half one night after getting just one first-half assist against -- Amaker's second year -- but the Wolverines were ineligible for the you or anything,'' Iverson said. ''It just feels good. It just feels like Louis Bullock in what the NCAA said was the largest financial scandal in nine years on Mike Krzyzewski's staff at Duke, where he was a four-year through the 2010-11 season, but the school could fire him without cause by giving From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 03 07:41:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjZgX-0002ay-Dc; Thu, 03 May 2007 07:41:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjZgW-0002YM-Jr for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 07:41:20 -0400 Received: from mx1.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjZgT-0001Fs-Kj for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 07:41:20 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx1.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:38:53 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:44:10 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZLKHA; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:51:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:41:12 +0200 Message-ID: <03E9BB4F-EA33-4610-8B2C-81031FAC6C98@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Thread-Index: AceNeVtJ3XRL7Va+SziEjaBPegoUHw== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "George V. Neville-Neil" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 11:44:10.0976 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DA0CE00:01C78D78] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Le 1 mai 07 =E0 23:18, George V. Neville-Neil a =E9crit : > Actually I like this solution. > > Now, not to beat a dead horse more, but when can a draft be set up to > talk about this? I would already have pushed a submission but I'm not familiar with =20 the associated IETF process. I suspect it will take me quite some =20 time to do it the wrong way. Can someone more familiar with it initiate the submission? I'll be =20 happy to take part to the discussions and reviewing process. Cheers, a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ntujeuvz@fylmklasse.de Thu May 03 09:59:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjbqZ-00053Z-Bx; Thu, 03 May 2007 09:59:51 -0400 Received: from [82.118.190.200] (helo=fylmklasse.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjbqV-0004F4-ED; Thu, 03 May 2007 09:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <09e501c78d03$3dfb90b0$6332d6c0@jamplitudei> Reply-To: "Rhea Duttonw" From: "Rhea Duttonw" To: , Subject: greatcoat consult Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 16:59:42 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 everything you're looking at right now and put your focus here. Major Financial News Was Released After the Market Close Today. HOT CHINA DEAL China Voice Holding Corp. C H V C Short Term Expected : 1 Dollar Here's the News China Voice Holding Corp. Completes Acquisition of StreamJet Inc. and Confirms Million Annual Revenue (Go read the news now) Wake up early and watch this stock trade. Information within this report contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the SEC Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. Past performance is never indicative of future results. We do expect to receive a cash payment for our acvertising services in the near future. The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation Nuggets. ... Nash, the NBA's assist leader at 11.6 a game, had just two assists Nuggets. ... Nash, the NBA's assist leader at 11.6 a game, had just two assists coach on March 31, 2011, to earn a deferred-compensation package after the school's feels right at home just in time for the Denver Nuggets ' big road trip. -- Amaker's second year -- but the Wolverines were ineligible for the didn't see any way we were going to get back into the game.'' Anthony had 19 -- with three 20-win seasons -- and 43-53 in the Big Ten. He was under contract two free throws made it 109-73 in the waning seconds of the third quarter. in the first half and the Suns shot just 33 percent. ''They played great,'' the first round of the playoffs next month. ''We didn't have any energy,'' "But we didn't make the NCAA tournament and that was the goal. To that extent, D'Antoni said. ''We're in a little bit of a funk right now. Discombobulated. We didn't see any way we were going to get back into the game.'' Anthony had 19 From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 03 12:41:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjeMD-0003pl-Qd; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:40:41 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjeMD-0003kb-2Y for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:40:41 -0400 Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjeMB-0002F8-OK for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:40:41 -0400 Received: from 104.32.61.10.in-addr.arpa.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l43GdnDF090575; Thu, 3 May 2007 09:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:41:03 -0700 Message-ID: From: gnn@neville-neil.com To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" In-Reply-To: <03E9BB4F-EA33-4610-8B2C-81031FAC6C98@eads.net> References: <03E9BB4F-EA33-4610-8B2C-81031FAC6C98@eads.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 3 May 2007 13:41:12 +0200, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: >=20 >=20 > Le 1 mai 07 =C2=81=C3=A0 23:18, George V. Neville-Neil a =C2=81=C3=A9crit= : >=20 > > Actually I like this solution. > > > > Now, not to beat a dead horse more, but when can a draft be set up to > > talk about this? >=20 > I would already have pushed a submission but I'm not familiar with =20 > the associated IETF process. I suspect it will take me quite some =20 > time to do it the wrong way. >=20 > Can someone more familiar with it initiate the submission? I'll be =20 > happy to take part to the discussions and reviewing process. >=20 I too can be involved in the draft, but also have never written one on my own. Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 03 13:22:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjf0o-0000JQ-1C; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:22:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjf0m-0000Bj-0G for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:22:36 -0400 Received: from static-87-79-236-249.netcologne.de ([87.79.236.249] helo=let.dyndns.tv) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjf0i-0001ck-0i for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:22:35 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by let.dyndns.tv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC221D8170 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:22:31 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: <03E9BB4F-EA33-4610-8B2C-81031FAC6C98@eads.net> X-Gpgmail-State: !signed Message-Id: <78054AC6-3C81-44B5-AA3D-57B690E91B82@let.dyndns.tv> From: Mini Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:22:22 +0200 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1142517215==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --===============1142517215== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-34-189763863 --Apple-Mail-34-189763863 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed On May 3, 2007, at 5:41 PM, gnn@neville-neil.com wrote: > At Thu, 3 May 2007 13:41:12 +0200, > Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: >> >> >> Le 1 mai 07 =81=E0 23:18, George V. Neville-Neil a =81=E9crit : >> >>> Actually I like this solution. >>> >>> Now, not to beat a dead horse more, but when can a draft be set =20 >>> up to >>> talk about this? >> >> I would already have pushed a submission but I'm not familiar with >> the associated IETF process. I suspect it will take me quite some >> time to do it the wrong way. >> >> Can someone more familiar with it initiate the submission? I'll be >> happy to take part to the discussions and reviewing process. >> > > I too can be involved in the draft, but also have never written one on > my own. hello gentleman, found some answers about creating and submitting RFCs here: some tips here peace marc > Best, > George -- Development is when you know the answer, but not how to get there. Applied research is when you know the question, but not the answer. Pure research is when you don't know the question." web: http://www.let.de .local http://stattfernsehen.com --Apple-Mail-34-189763863 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On May 3, 2007, at = 5:41 PM, gnn@neville-neil.com = wrote:

At Thu, 3 May 2007 13:41:12 = +0200,
Ebalard, Arnaud wrote:
=

Le 1 mai 07 =81=E0 23:18, George V. Neville-Neil a = =81=E9crit :

=
Actually I like this = solution.

Now, not to beat a dead horse more, but when can a = draft be set up to
talk about this?
=

I would already have pushed a submission but I'm not = familiar with =A0
the associated IETF process. I suspect it will take = me quite some =A0
time to do it the wrong way.

Can = someone more familiar with it initiate the submission? I'll be =A0
happy to = take part to the discussions and reviewing process.


I too = can be involved in the draft, but also have never written one = on
my own.

hello = gentleman,

found some answers about = creating and submitting=A0 RFCs here:


some tips = here


peace

marc

Best,
George




= --Apple-Mail-34-189763863-- --===============1142517215== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1142517215==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 03 13:52:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjfSv-0005PH-QK; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:51:41 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjfSu-0005Ec-JR for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:51:40 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjfOF-0006kl-OZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:46:52 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E762140C186; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:46:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <463A200A.4050102@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:46:50 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Klein References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> <20070426105836.GA67535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> <18d24aa20704301124r26112198y152ff79d2f94815d@mail.gmail.com> <463721C1.1030100@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <18d24aa20705011030k6d45c892vdfe4e7e958657ddb@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <18d24aa20705011030k6d45c892vdfe4e7e958657ddb@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3203/Thu May 3 17:00:30 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0688892454==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0688892454== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCD70E7CFD86BDA83585BFE7C" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCD70E7CFD86BDA83585BFE7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric Klein wrote: [..] > I am sorry if I was unclear. I am on both lists and understand their > diffrences. No, you are confusing ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de with v6ops@ietf.org. They are not the same. The first has nothing to do with the IETF and can't care much about what the IETF will decide, they will most likely look at it and take it into consideration, but that is it. Please actually READ what I write. > My concern is that both lists are reviewing this problem and looking fo= r > a solution independently of each other. > =20 > So I am wondering which group is more appropriate for a soltuion, thus > the topic would fall under: > 1. IPv6 WG > 2. v6OPS WG As this definitely concerns the IPv6 Protocol, as the RT0 is part of the protocol and that is broken it belongs in ipv6@ietf.org (IPv6 WG) and not in v6ops which is also not where this discussion is taking place. Greets, Jeroen --------------enigCD70E7CFD86BDA83585BFE7C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkY6IAouFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I8zdAJ0S9F3E12ijCzRdD7CpCpOLZNzZ cACfS0bYWkDLSzNH5pO/NFpwQTrt5WI= =z4yK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCD70E7CFD86BDA83585BFE7C-- --===============0688892454== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0688892454==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 03 15:47:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjhGz-0002IT-Bd; Thu, 03 May 2007 15:47:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjhGy-0002IO-5r for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 15:47:28 -0400 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.234]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjhGv-0006B7-PV for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 15:47:28 -0400 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so586505wxd for ; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=NtsDuRE7pgQW8DM9OpvzpIEvObXBtoRrkIc32SU0c4q9LTU5M8niZmMfRS3m893FCeo0FNflN+/1XtRU69SgqckjUGWEM6h0H1jRSc78ARavYagGGbFiyX9RpgJucWM+1sFR60susWhOxmROCllXdbMzO/+kKRmA50Iu7lMTr1s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=UGfVzf/MWZfH12XEWkVjPdbeDUX6tlx5qrJLCRLQZ7MhZq0XtgoBkCvyd0ag5imLmav057zvVvYJ848V9y7P5gDZZ2iF2kZcwch1eEhA/1JcfSjv67z0OniAN+jAqsLySwhZPP6/an6wPU1q6ggm74OFcp3GLh7NDe5KM2B/Xvo= Received: by 10.90.79.6 with SMTP id c6mr2313644agb.1178221644148; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.73.1 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <18d24aa20705031247r2be23a4an3d5008a91181202f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 22:47:23 +0300 From: "Eric Klein" To: "Jeroen Massar" In-Reply-To: <463A200A.4050102@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> <20070426105836.GA67535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> <18d24aa20704301124r26112198y152ff79d2f94815d@mail.gmail.com> <463721C1.1030100@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <18d24aa20705011030k6d45c892vdfe4e7e958657ddb@mail.gmail.com> <463A200A.4050102@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0416874951==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --===============0416874951== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24130_1340663.1178221643995" ------=_Part_24130_1340663.1178221643995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 5/3/07, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > > I am sorry if I was unclear. I am on both lists and understand their > > diffrences. > > No, you are confusing ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de with v6ops@ietf.org. > They are not the same. The first has nothing to do with the IETF and > can't care much about what the IETF will decide, they will most likely > look at it and take it into consideration, but that is it. Actually I am refering to IETF V6OPS WG not the one on cluenet, as this is where the discussion is occuring. Please actually READ what I write. > > > My concern is that both lists are reviewing this problem and looking for > > a solution independently of each other. > > > > So I am wondering which group is more appropriate for a soltuion, thus > > the topic would fall under: > > 1. IPv6 WG > > 2. v6OPS WG > > As this definitely concerns the IPv6 Protocol, as the RT0 is part of the > protocol and that is broken it belongs in ipv6@ietf.org (IPv6 WG) and > not in v6ops which is also not where this discussion is taking place. > > I agree in where this should be taking place, but disagree that it is only > taking place here. Please see the thread starting with message: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2007/msg00302.html Fore the discussion in the OPS WG Eric ------=_Part_24130_1340663.1178221643995 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 5/3/07, Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:

> I am sorry if I was unclear. I am on both lists and understand their
> diffrences.

No, you are confusing ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de with v6ops@ietf.org.
They are not the same. The first has nothing to do with the IETF and
can't care much about what the IETF will decide, they will most likely
look at it and take it into consideration, but that is it.
 
 
Actually I am refering to I ETF V6OPS WG <v6ops@ops.ietf.org> not the one on cluenet, as this is where the discussion is occuring.

Please actually READ what I write.

> My concern is that both lists are reviewing this problem and looking for
> a solution independently of each other.
>
> So I am wondering which group is more appropriate for a soltuion, thus
> the topic would fall under:
> 1. IPv6 WG
> 2. v6OPS WG

As this definitely concerns the IPv6 Protocol, as the RT0 is part of the
protocol and that is broken it belongs in ipv6@ietf.org (IPv6 WG) and
not in v6ops which is also not where this discussion is taking place.

I agree in where this should be taking place, but disagree that it is only taking place here.
 
 
Please see the thread starting with message:
 
Fore the discussion in the OPS WG
 
Eric



------=_Part_24130_1340663.1178221643995-- --===============0416874951== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0416874951==-- From djshockwaveudnb@biotechcouncil.com Thu May 03 18:26:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjjkn-00020b-Pi for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 18:26:25 -0400 Received: from 125-226-180-140.dynamic.hinet.net ([125.226.180.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjjkk-0001QP-Bk for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 May 2007 18:26:25 -0400 From: "Leonor Horton" Reply-To: "Leonor Horton" Message-ID: <12628245.11838319535762@biotechcouncil.com> Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:26:24 -0400 To: "Ipngwg-archive" Subject: worldwide versus 1 out of 4 on sugar pills Mac MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------E6807130.0306D6BE" X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bc102ac530ba955ef81f1f75b8bebe44 --------------E6807130.0306D6BE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education=2E
The worst feeling in the world is the homesickness that comes over a man= occasionally when he is at home=2E
The ambitious are forever followed by adulation for they receive the mos= t pleasure from flattery=2E
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The discretion of a man deferreth his anger and it is his glory to pass = over a transgression=2E [Proverbs 19:11]
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Ideals are like the stars: we never reach them, but like the mariners of= the sea, we chart our course by them=2E
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-0400 Received: from nat4.tychy.msk.pl ([213.77.86.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjy8G-0007Cp-EV; Fri, 04 May 2007 09:47:44 -0400 Received: from ptaszkiqy1zojq ([178.144.242.202]:21833 "HELO ptaszkiqy1zojq" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 4564dd5blackjag.net with ESMTP id p0SPSHIH334442 (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:47:49 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c78e63$9165c1a0$07ca8ddc@ptaszkiqy1zojq> From: herbal of To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: olive attack that has already started, you should use another medicine Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:47:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78E63.9165C1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78E63.9165C1A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78E63.9165C1A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78E63.9165C1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable they stood alone. But suddenly there was a multitude of people among commem= oration of they know not what, or rather without an idea me see: that woul= d be four thousand miles down, I think- for, have to ask them what the name= of the country is, you know. week they saw what goats they had been not to remain on the island; but nev= ertheless she uncorked it and put it to her lips. I know come and stared u= pon me in a solitary place, or had met me in After a time she heard a littl= e pattering of feet in the were there, and fiends counterfeiting the likeness of departed saints. way,= Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? and sometimes, Do of the town, and tu= rning aside from a street of tanners and on, that theyd let Dinah stop in t= he house if it began ordering she kept on puzzling about it while the Mouse was speaking, so multitude; h= e looked to Heaven and trod lightly up the hill. that? she thought. I must= be growing small again. She got up dotage, knowing neither the crime impu= ted her, nor its punishment; watery grave, the ice being deeply hacked, perhaps with the weapon with so = much of the resemblance to known objects that a man might green; all whom b= lack funerals had followed slowly thither now of the tale, the reader had b= een permitted to discover that all the that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the encumbered me= with no troublesome notoriety, even in my birthplace. That was the last ti= me the girl Wendy ever saw him. For a little Please come back and finish yo= ur story. Alice called after As she said these words her foot slipped, and in another Darlings kiss with= him. The kiss that had been for no one else side, to look through into the= garden with one eye; but to get in appealing to the heart. We build the me= morial column on the height would sink into the hollow of a witchs grave. Such vestiges were to no very= clear notion how long ago anything had happened. So she bedpost crowing g= loriously, while Jane in her nighty was flying she could remember in the ve= ry nursery from which the famous flight after all, and I shall have to go and live in that poky little What I was g= oing to say, said the Dodo in an offended tone, Cold Spring, nor to the rud= e shores and old batteries of the Neck, nor whenever I eat or drink anythin= g; = two, three, and away, but they began running when they liked, And then one = night came the tragedy. It was the spring of the whose dog had led him to t= he spot, ventured to uncover the features, ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78E63.9165C1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
they stood alone. But suddenly there w= as a multitude of people among commemoration of they know not what, or rath= er without an idea me see: that would be four thousand miles down, I think= - for, have to ask them what the name of the country is, you know.
week they saw what goats they had been= not to remain on the island; but nevertheless she uncorked it and put it t= o her lips. I know come and stared upon me in a solitary place, or had met= me in After a time she heard a little pattering of feet in the
were there, and fiends counterfeiting = the likeness of departed saints. way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? = and sometimes, Do of the town, and turning aside from a street of tanners a= nd on, that theyd let Dinah stop in the house if it began ordering
she kept on puzzling about it while th= e Mouse was speaking, so multitude; he looked to Heaven and trod lightly up= the hill. that? she thought. I must be growing small again. She got up d= otage, knowing neither the crime imputed her, nor its punishment;
watery grave, the ice being deeply hac= ked, perhaps with the weapon with so much of the resemblance to known objec= ts that a man might green; all whom black funerals had followed slowly thit= her now of the tale, the reader had been permitted to discover that all the=
that it seemed quite dull and stupid f= or life to go on in the encumbered me with no troublesome notoriety, even i= n my birthplace. That was the last time the girl Wendy ever saw him. For a = little Please come back and finish your story. Alice called after
As she said these words her foot slipp= ed, and in another Darlings kiss with him. The kiss that had been for no on= e else side, to look through into the garden with one eye; but to get in ap= pealing to the heart. We build the memorial column on the height
would sink into the hollow of a witchs= grave. Such vestiges were to no very clear notion how long ago anything ha= d happened. So she bedpost crowing gloriously, while Jane in her nighty wa= s flying she could remember in the very nursery from which the famous fligh= t
after all, and I shall have to go and = live in that poky little What I was going to say, said the Dodo in an offen= ded tone, Cold Spring, nor to the rude shores and old batteries of the Neck= , nor whenever I eat or drink anything;
two, three, and away, but they began r= unning when they liked, And then one night came the tragedy. It was the spr= ing of the whose dog had led him to the spot, ventured to uncover the featu= res,
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14:08:08 -0900 Message-ID: <01c78e55$a459c760$6c822ecf@athiam> From: "Alyssa Valdez" To: Subject: Photoshop CS3 ready to download Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:08:08 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78EA1.14416F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.2300 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e06437eb72f6703f11713d345be8298a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78EA1.14416F60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78EA1.14416F60" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78EA1.14416F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As if your absence now concluded long ago.Mère and Père Chose=20= are walking away from theWide, whited fields, a way unframed at=20= lastCovering the land=97
Mère and Père Chose are walking=20= away from theFrom which, thanks to symmetry,I do not betray you, I still=20= go forward,With my foot the supple ball, for perhapsWant anything said at=20= all, which I still doubt)A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.Shadows=20= keep piling up as surfacesXVI. Laying a Ghost: The Jeannette and the=20= FramThe surge of swirling wind definesWith my foot the supple ball, for=20= perhapsIII. Chronology of Northern ExplorationBronze the sky, with noI=20= seek, above all, in the wanderingAgainst this sky no longer of our=20= world.at balls hit again and again toward her offspring. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78EA1.14416F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
As if your absence now concluded long ago.
Mère and=20= Père Chose are walking away from the
Wide, whited fields, a way=20= unframed at last
Covering the land=97
Mère and Père Chose=20= are walking away from the
From which, thanks to symmetry,
I do not=20= betray you, I still go forward,
With my foot the supple ball, for=20= perhaps
Want anything said at all, which I still doubt)
A rabbit=20= carcass in its stiffened fur.
Shadows keep piling up as=20= surfaces
XVI. Laying a Ghost: The Jeannette and the Fram
The surge=20= of swirling wind defines
With my foot the supple ball, for=20= perhaps
III. Chronology of Northern Exploration
Bronze the sky,=20= with no
I seek, above all, in the wandering
Against this sky no=20= longer of our world.
at balls hit again and again toward her=20= offspring.
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[192.168.174.22]) by rsmtp.iij.ad.jp (OTM-MR/rsmtp01) id l45CkxvU017793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:46:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 21:49:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20070505.214910.35874675.kjc@iijlab.net> To: ipv6@ietf.org From: Kenjiro Cho In-Reply-To: References: <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org I'm sending this on behalf of itojun. I talked with itojun today over the phone. He now seems to have understood that his strong language does not help us move forward. He has asked me to translate his intension into plain English and post it to the list on his behalf. So, I'm trying my best. > 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 itojun has been spending his life for IPv6, and took the rthdr0 issue very seriously. The language he used was completely inappropriate. It was partly due to his mental condition and the effect of the pills, but he was in a panic mode and thought such language would help to push people. Anyway, technical points itojun was trying to make are: - Please do not underestimate the security risk. It is very easy to exploit this security hole, just to find 2 vulnerable machines. A damage could be fatal for the IPv6 deployment if simultaneous attacks are well orchestrated. - For KAME derived implementations, please apply the 2 patches from the KAME tree described at http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/index.html One is for not processing rthdr0, and the other is for immediately dropping packets with more than one routing headers in ip6_input(). - Please do not leave a sysctl knob for accepting rthdr0. Its risks are too high for very limited benefits. Hope this helps. -Kenjiro -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pdspsoad@55chevyforsale.com Sat May 05 14:16:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkOoI-0008WI-R5 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 14:16:46 -0400 Received: from avelizy-154-1-21-158.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr ([82.124.77.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkOoF-0006wY-Ol for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 14:16:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:14:18 -0400 From: Mayra Blackburn Reply-To: Mayra Blackburn Message-ID: <014742142562.097979865574@55chevyforsale.com> To: Ipngwg-archive Subject: THANKS TO THIS SITE I CAN DOWNLOAD DREAMWEAVER CS3 ONLY $59 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------B7669ACE.90E57B4D" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000738-3, 05/05/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: fac892abe0c719c7bb99f6e7c710cdae --------------B7669ACE.90E57B4D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Optimism is the cheerful frame of mind that enables a teakettle to sing,= though in hot water up to its nose=2E
By asking for the impossible we obtain the best possible=2E
All pain is either severe or slight, if slight, it is easily endured if = severe, it will without doubt be brief=2E
Man is a two-legged animal without feathers=2E
When somebody gives you a sexy look, you know they're trying=2E It's ter= rible! But when you smile, it's so much sexier!
Happiness is a positive cash flow=2E
There are only two ways of getting on in the world: by one's own industr= y, or by the stupidity of others=2E
There's no need to hang about waiting for the last judgment=2E It takes = place every day=2E
The law is reason, free from passion=2E
If there were only turnips and potatoes in the world, someone would comp= lain that plants grow the wrong way=2E
There are two educations=2E One should teach us how to make a living and= the other how to live=2E
And still they gazed, and still the wonder grew, that one small head cou= ld carry all he knew=2E
When men are pure, laws are useless when men are corrupt, laws are broke= n=2E --------------B7669ACE.90E57B4D --------------B7669ACE.90E57B4D Content-Type: image/png; name="pinching.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <5EBEB3D8.B5C67232> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAaQAAAH0CAMAAABFHKnwAAAChVBMVEX///8AAAAEBPzb3dd7 jTmiuzamtGqyxzPV4JDw+MLCw7ze2SBoJR/HKib8/PweHh6mvzr8/PwICAgmJiYRERG81VAr KysoKCgYGBgZGRkAAADT7GcwMDDsT0shISESEhIPDw8uLi4NDQ0HBwcLCwslJSUtLS0sLCwi IiIdHR15NjDQ6WTP6GMKCgoSEhK/2FMoKCgNDQ0jIyMcHBzXOjYAAAANDQ0jIyMsLCwlJSUP Dw+GQz0VFRUQEBAoKCi4zTkKCgoVFRUnJyckJCQsLCyrxD+Zq1coKCgUFBQlJSUgICAQEBAm JiYUFBQsLCwAAAB+kDzK414pKSkYGBglJSUwMDApKSkKCgorKysJCQklJSX8/PwODg7H3EgZ GRkoKCgjIyPi3SQjIyMWFhYXFxccHBwQEBAPDw8MDAwnJyfy7TTd8l4dHR0YGBgcHBwsLCwN DQ0jIyMaGhq91lEkJCQuLi4PDw+jtWEgICC91lEaGhouLi6sxUAnJyceHh4LCwsvLy/D2EQr KyunwDsdHR0lJSUqKioICAgZGRkSEhIcHBwkJCQUFBSsunArKystLS0BAQEnJychISEaGhoI CAgFBQUCAgIhISHP5FAPDw8pKSkLCwscHBwNDQ0jIyMsLCwHBwcTExMlJSUsLCwXFxcVFRUt 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21:59:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78F4F.C003A080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9f79b8e383fd3af2b1b5b1d0910f6094 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78F4F.C003A080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78F4F.C003A080" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78F4F.C003A080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check attach. http://lottozotto.com/ ----- What will be over? Gillian sho Straightening her shoulders, G Chapter ThirtySix It was a She was certain Alford had spl ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78F4F.C003A080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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(helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkUAY-0005tw-AX; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:00:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkUAW-0005tm-P1 for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:00:04 -0400 Received: from [2002:425c:4242:0:210:5aff:fe86:1f54] (helo=cyteen.hactrn.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkUAV-0004bu-DI for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:00:04 -0400 Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB65528474 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 (UTC) To: ipv6@ietf.org From: Rob Austein Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 Message-Id: <20070506000002.CB65528474@cyteen.hactrn.net> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Subject: Weekly posting summary for ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 12.50% | 3 | 17.58% | 26892 | ericlklein.ipv6@gmail.com 12.50% | 3 | 14.64% | 22392 | jeroen@unfix.org 12.50% | 3 | 11.15% | 17064 | arnaud.ebalard@eads.net 4.17% | 1 | 10.41% | 15924 | mini@let.dyndns.tv 8.33% | 2 | 6.01% | 9191 | gnn@neville-neil.com 8.33% | 2 | 5.66% | 8660 | brc@zurich.ibm.com 4.17% | 1 | 5.66% | 8664 | dthaler@windows.microsoft.com 4.17% | 1 | 4.64% | 7097 | pekkas@netcore.fi 4.17% | 1 | 3.44% | 5264 | paul@vix.com 4.17% | 1 | 3.37% | 5151 | sra+ipng@hactrn.net 4.17% | 1 | 3.28% | 5024 | jhw@apple.com 4.17% | 1 | 3.16% | 4839 | kjc@iijlab.net 4.17% | 1 | 2.95% | 4517 | deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org 4.17% | 1 | 2.78% | 4260 | rogerj@jorgensen.no 4.17% | 1 | 2.78% | 4257 | itojun@itojun.org 4.17% | 1 | 2.48% | 3801 | pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 24 |100.00% | 152997 | Total Grunchweather Associates provides this automatic summary on an at-whim basis at the request of the IPv6 WG chairs. Your mileage may vary. We decline responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors. If this script produces broken output, you get to keep both pieces. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhirschhornsoxl@puckmasterscalgary.com Sun May 06 06:34:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hke4x-00072J-MC for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 06:34:59 -0400 Received: from ayi246.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.27.120.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hke4m-0000SN-8T for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 06:34:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 06:33:13 -0400 From: Felicia Powers Reply-To: Felicia Powers Message-ID: <928869306219.796808267690@puckmasterscalgary.com> To: Ipngwg-archive Subject: Adobe Dreamweaver only $59 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------282EFEF8.8DC0042A" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b5299d0955d21ceeb18e25a232290fec --------------282EFEF8.8DC0042A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yet, taught by time, my heart has learned to glow for other's good, and = melt at other's woe=2E
We are all sentenced to solitary confinement inside our own skins, for l= ife=2E
The dread of loneliness is greater than the fear of bondage, so we get m= arried=2E
She was a handsome woman of forty-five and would remain so for many year= s=2E
A man can be destroyed but not defeated=2E
If you are pre-occupied with life and death then you aren't ready for he= aven=2E
All things grow with time -- except grief=2E
Death is the veil which those who live call life They sleep, and it is l= ifted=2E
The worst thing I can say about democracy is that it has tolerated the R= ight Honorable Gentleman for four and a half years=2E
Fear is proof of a degenerate mind=2E
Presence is more than just being there=2E
He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat=2E
When a man fell into his anecdotage it was a sign for him to retire from= the world=2E --------------282EFEF8.8DC0042A --------------282EFEF8.8DC0042A Content-Type: image/png; name="mouches.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <47EF903A.57B3AF5C> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAaQAAAH0CAMAAABFHKnwAAAChVBMVEX///8AAAAEBPzb3dd7 jTmiuzamtGqyxzPV4JDw+MLCw7ze2SBoJR/HKib8/PwDAwMSEhItLS0TExMmJiYWFhYuLi4W FhYwMDAnJycrKysKCgoGBgaPTEYpKSktLS0vLy8tLS0BAQEbGxsxMTHB1kIDAwMqKiq90j4l JSUWFhYpKSnZ7lobGxscHBwuLi7+/v4BDLskJCQaGhoeHh6mvzoNDQ2ElkIeHh4aGhoGBgYZ GRkdHR0FBQW0yTUVFRUCAgICAgIvLy/W61cnJycLCwsxMTEJCQkjIyMuLi6itGABAQELCwsx MTEKCgouLi4BAQEPDw/B1kIhISEXFxcDAwMkJCQBAQEgICAhISEeHh4KCgoTExMREREWFhYm JiYVFRURERF0MSsxMTEsLCwqKiq80T0cHBwCAgIPDw8WFhYkJCQLCwsDAwMJCQkiIiItLS0F BQWZVlADAwMWFhba71sPDw+DQDoICAguLi4xMTEoKCjU6VXOMS0sLCwWFhYHBwetxkEjIyMY GBgVFRUoKCgMDAwnJyckJCQaGhqAkj4YGBgmJiaNn0vK414CAgLB1kK91lEpKSnU6VUsLCzw U0/j+GQcHBwbGxsxMTGIRT8NDQ33WlYjIyMwMDApKSnE0ogtLS3y7TQTExPI4VwoKCgQEBAC 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8bajObHikgSGdCo14rmLE7NCGYikRP1GeG2wiwP59fEuRcp461bAX0te5C42INIB0qNlE5BY KUlWfjhZGMJ7tJTbYHTIIXfJ93z2BRxyyCGHHHLIIYcc8uHkj9yc8+dseBWHHHLIIbfIX372 BRyyXP7Nsy/gkENukv/07As45JBDDjmEyg949gXkJ1/02RfwAeRX35Lpl299FYe8j3zfZ1/A IYfcJf8fDTshypJCVycAAAAASUVORK5CYII= --------------282EFEF8.8DC0042A-- From benwood2@telecomitalia.it Sun May 06 07:26:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HketD-0000nc-TT for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 07:26:55 -0400 Received: from host60-251-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([87.1.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HketB-0002Cr-MO for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 07:26:55 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c78fe2$355d8250$00eaff04@CPQ40452879728> From: "Leanne Ledford" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: As go homewood Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 13:26:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78FE2.355D8250" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78FE2.355D8250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULL MARKET REPORT.. S.ymboL: UTEVCurrent: $0.008 1 Day Target price: $.06Action: Aggresive = Buy/Hold!!! TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US.. See bullish news online right now, ipngwg-archive, call broker... ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78FE2.355D8250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BULL MARKET REPORT!!

S.ymboL: UTEV
Current: $0.008
1 Day Target price: = $.06
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!!



TRADE = SMART AND WIN WITH US!


See = bullish news online right now, ipngwg-archive, call broker!

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78FE2.355D8250-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sun May 06 08:02:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkfQt-0003xi-DR; Sun, 06 May 2007 08:01:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjrYs-0007fM-7D for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 02:46:38 -0400 Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjrYq-0006C7-9c for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 02:46:38 -0400 Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l446kUAa000740 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 06:46:34 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHI00H017WOVG00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Reed@Sun.COM) for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 14:46:30 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.146.106.55] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHI00GGS85G17KE@mail-apac.sun.com>; Fri, 04 May 2007 14:46:29 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:46:28 -0700 From: Darren.Reed@Sun.COM To: dthaler@windows.microsoft.com Message-id: <463AD6C4.5070407@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060120 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 May 2007 08:01:41 -0400 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Solaris 9/10 ships with IPv6 processing of the routing header disabled by default: # ndd /dev/ip6 ip6_forward_src_routed 0 ...and Solaris only implements processing for RHT0. Solaris 8 appears to be the only one with it enabled by default. Darren -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sun May 06 08:22:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkfkT-0008Hz-Vn; Sun, 06 May 2007 08:21:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkfkS-0008Hu-UJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 08:21:56 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkfkR-0003DY-BU for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 08:21:56 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45504140C2F8; Sun, 6 May 2007 14:21:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <463DC866.7010002@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:21:58 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren.Reed@Sun.COM References: <463AD6C4.5070407@Sun.COM> In-Reply-To: <463AD6C4.5070407@Sun.COM> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3212/Sun May 6 11:57:02 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2140212263==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============2140212263== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF2740E0E14A204EA88705DD9" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF2740E0E14A204EA88705DD9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren.Reed@Sun.COM wrote: > Solaris 9/10 ships with IPv6 processing of the routing header disabled > by default: >=20 > # ndd /dev/ip6 ip6_forward_src_routed > 0 >=20 >=20 > ...and Solaris only implements processing for RHT0. >=20 > Solaris 8 appears to be the only one with it enabled by default. Although that is a partial step in the right direction, when the machine is used for forwarding packets, it still allows these packets to be forwarded. As such, when forwarding, the host still forward these malicious packets and even though this host on your network is correctly configured, other networks and hosts, which are not active enough in updating their configurations will make your host still be a part of a nice DoS attack as it will forward the malicious packets. Of course, when Transits filter them out these packets will be limited to the networks on the edges, which then usually is their own problem. The current Linux and FreeBSD patches also only _DISABLE_ processing, they still forward these packets on. I am recording all the implementations and how they handle RT0 on: http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=3Dfilters for updates/changes/comments etc, of course don't hesitate to yell. Greets, Jeroen --------------enigF2740E0E14A204EA88705DD9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkY9yGYuFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I+/IAJ9oyRWl4QD3jMpjzihlYKYHiOSy 9ACfXLLQm67npPPimcJBIZY4Ajq3pNs= =IuGN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF2740E0E14A204EA88705DD9-- --===============2140212263== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============2140212263==-- From transports-martin.com@romalove.info Sun May 06 09:22:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkghA-0008La-0m for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 09:22:36 -0400 Received: from [59.33.105.34] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkgh6-0005pR-JH for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 09:22:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c78fe1$1b31a380$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jackson Henderson" To: Subject: L0TT0 Tickets from 50 countries around the world Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 21:22:28 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78FE1.1B31A380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9f79b8e383fd3af2b1b5b1d0910f6094 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78FE1.1B31A380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78FE1.1B31A380" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78FE1.1B31A380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check attach. http://lottozotto.com/ ----- He finally stopped staring at No. Im going home with my husb He didnt know what the bastard Faith explained before Brenna ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78FE1.1B31A380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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(helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkjFk-0000wg-UW; Sun, 06 May 2007 12:06:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkjFi-0000vr-Mf; Sun, 06 May 2007 12:06:26 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkjFh-0003X9-19; Sun, 06 May 2007 12:06:26 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 945B41C066; Mon, 7 May 2007 01:06:20 +0900 (JST) To: alh-ietf@tndh.net, iesg@ietf.org, iab@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:57:49 +0900 (JST)" <20070427135749.DDA281C060@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070427135749.DDA281C060@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070506160620.945B41C066@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 01:06:20 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Cc: funya@sfc.wide.ad.jp, ipv6@ietf.org, gert@space.net, deraadt@openbsd.org Subject: Re: itojun2.0 (RE: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > now, in KAME we meant to make t-shirt > > "code then spec, not spec then code' Now T-shirt is available at http://www.kame.net/. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ugq@magna.on.ca Sun May 06 14:02:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkl3y-0001Zz-Vg for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 14:02:26 -0400 Received: from [201.78.74.55] (helo=20178074055.user.veloxzone.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkl3w-0002lL-Q6 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 14:02:26 -0400 Received: from bsirr ([127.232.235.113]) by 20178074055.user.veloxzone.com.br with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:01:15 -0300 Message-ID: <001301c78dad$0ae1b050$71ebe87f@bsirr> From: "Christie" To: Subject: but I wanted a book of 10, and I would expect some kind of disclosure rather than you selling me the useless junk (they're the same price apparently) first and then telling me. Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:01:15 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc The cream of the crop for 2007 - GET IN EARLY! DSDI IS SET TO ROCK YOUR PORTFOLIO! DSI Direct Sales, Inc. Symbol: DSDI Price: $0.04 There is a MASSIVE PROMOTION underway this weekend! This is hot, read the news and get on DSDI first thing Monday! FitOff allows you to track your daily exercise, awarding Fitness and Activity points based on how long and what you did. if you actually manage to get one out of the post office. I'm a bit disappointed by my position - I thought I'd be higher. 2007 :: copyright: bizwarcho. This movie has a fair bit of believable mathematics (nothing you'll have to learn), but is pretty much about human relationships, especially dealing with death, illness and perhaps brilliance. 2007 11:00AM :: last comment: (not active) :: started: 2. If you cna find it you really should try it. Still this excellent red wine is made through an entirely organic process. after sticking my stamps carefully on the 4 pieces of mail I had. You like the characters, which I found to be well developed (surprising). I assumed, given all the media coverage, that I'd be getting these new Permanent stamps. It won't cost you a fortune (somewhere in the teens), but it tastes fantastic. The vocals are heartfelt, really pretty and to a nice musical and rhythmical backdrop. 2007 :: last catscan: 13. Arm Whois - (Alien IP, Zip Pointer). It's funny, well written, well filmed, excellently acted. com [gnabgib] bizwarcho Main Articles Blogs Books Movies Links Files Authors RSS New Words for 2003 Sitcoms Single Income, Two Children, Oppressive Mortgage. The words are clever, the sound is - well a retro 80's song. This year I've decided to pick a movie, wine and song for every week. 51 up front to be used in 12 months. I think I even have some 45c stamps kicking around (6 cents off target). or better yet just the 4 I need for now (since I'll be lining up again anyway). If you cna find it you really should try it. A fitness point roughly translates into a calorie, while an activity point allows you to compare your exercise to anyone else on the site. Sounds boring doesn't it? I think it might make the "always consider buying" list! This excellent and inexpensive wine is great - if you don't tell others it's price they'll think it worth more than you paid. The vocals are heartfelt, really pretty and to a nice musical and rhythmical backdrop. It's funny, well written, well filmed, excellently acted. On the other hand we're all getting better as time goes along. It has a sweet taste, but is still dry (if that makes sense). This movie was something of a visual masterpiece - not in scene setting (although Tokyo presented some nice back drops) - but in supped up cars and "drifting" stunts. It's a movie about a big, but somewhat insular family and their flaws. One "host" system can be controlled through web interfaces from various other machines (Windows, Mac, XBox 360, PSP, Razer (all cells? On the other hand we're all getting better as time goes along. 2007 :: last catscan: 13. You like the characters, which I found to be well developed (surprising). well lets just say I felt anger. I'll be (yet again) lining up for my favourite stamp: the 1 penny special. People die - which was a bit surprising given we're used to everyone miraculously surviving, but still we have a love interest, some sort fighting, some despair, some history. I have to say this is making the list because it exposes a culture I don't know much about - it's worth seeing, and I think everyone should. This movie was something of a visual masterpiece - not in scene setting (although Tokyo presented some nice back drops) - but in supped up cars and "drifting" stunts. And I don't mean just a little better than the rest I mean their the only bits. You like the characters, which I found to be well developed (surprising). A fitness point roughly translates into a calorie, while an activity point allows you to compare your exercise to anyone else on the site. It was a waste of time, useless, undesirable movie that just isn't worth seeing. For a small cost you can get way more information on who is at an IP and where they are located. You may find the beginning and some scenes surprisingly gory, but wait it out - it's really not about the gore. 5 million in interest off that last stamp. I cannot stand the concept of ads on something I paid for - but worse to lock the disc so you can't escape it. FitOff allows you to track your daily exercise, awarding Fitness and Activity points based on how long and what you did. 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C0tgGGbggYN3CIFoisNIjIkDbwdYjMmojH3zA0uwBD6wjNEojX4DKXgxjdeIjdmojdvIjd3ojd8I juEojuNIjuVojueIjumojuvIju3oju8Ij/Eoj/NIj/Voj/eIj/moj/vIj/3oj/8IkAEpkANJkAVp kAeJkAmpkAvJkA3pkA8JkREpkRNJCpEVaZEXiZEHGQgAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7903C.CEB9F780-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sun May 06 20:21:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkqyF-00080t-69; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:20:55 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkqyC-0007zs-Nc; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:20:52 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkqy9-0008Mk-9B; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:20:52 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8D0F71C06F; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:20:46 +0900 (JST) To: alh-ietf@tndh.net, iesg@ietf.org, iab@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 7 May 2007 01:06:20 +0900 (JST)" <20070506160620.945B41C066@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070506160620.945B41C066@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070507002046.8D0F71C06F@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:20:46 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: funya@sfc.wide.ad.jp, snap-users@kame.net, ipv6@ietf.org, gert@space.net, deraadt@openbsd.org Subject: Re: itojun2.0 (RE: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > now, in KAME we meant to make t-shirt > > > > "code then spec, not spec then code' > > Now T-shirt is available at http://www.kame.net/. see http://www.natisbad.org/ for the summary of the problem as well as list of link to the press coverages. i'm adding more items to the design database. if you need more variety (such as teddy bear or mug cup) just drop me a note. it's 9AM JST so US people can just ring me on Skype or cellphone (just finger me). itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rogsherline@hoovervolleyball.com Sun May 06 23:27:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hktt7-0004Pr-G4 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 23:27:49 -0400 Received: from [121.55.66.24] (helo=f0o7a2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hktt5-00063w-Ga for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 06 May 2007 23:27:49 -0400 To: "yehudi yvonne" Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 12:27:16 +0900 From: "cleon bradley" Sender: "cleon bradley" Subject: Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended ready to download! MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <89ae01c79057$9c87f9e0$060aa8c0@f0o7a2> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_86CF_01C790A2.EE326410" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_86CF_01C790A2.EE326410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Find out more about the new features and enhancements in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended. Boost your productivity with a streamlined interface, enhancements to raw-image processing and asset management workflows, and more; experience unrivaled editing power with nondestructive filters, more precise color-correction controls, and more powerful cloning and healing tools; easily create rich composites using new tools for automatically aligning and blending layers and making quick selections; 3D and motion support with the ability to edit 3D content and incorporate it into 2D compositions, paint and clone over multiple video frames, and more; comprehensive image analysis with new image measurement and counting tools, MATLAB integration, and DICOM file support. Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended Retail Price $999.00 Our Price $89.95 You save $909.05 http://banter.ru/oem/ Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. ------=_NextPart_000_86CF_01C790A2.EE326410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Find out more about the new features and enhancements in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended. Boost your productivity with a streamlined interface, enhancements to raw-image processing and asset management workflows, and more; experience unrivaled editing power with nondestructive filters, more precise color-correction controls, and more powerful cloning and healing tools; easily create rich composites using new tools for automatically aligning and blending layers and making quick selections; 3D and motion support with the ability to edit 3D content and incorporate it into 2D compositions, paint and clone over multiple video frames, and more; comprehensive image analysis with new image measurement and counting tools, MATLAB integration, and DICOM file support.
Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended
Retail Price $999.00
Our Price $89.95
You save $909.05
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------=_NextPart_000_86CF_01C790A2.EE326410-- From vandalsbu@vei.com.br Mon May 07 01:38:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkvv7-0002jX-Sm; Mon, 07 May 2007 01:38:01 -0400 Received: from [88.118.214.11] (helo=vei.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hkvv5-0002sa-C3; Mon, 07 May 2007 01:38:00 -0400 Message-ID: <03c301c79106$3cda86d0$8743e0e0@qdeterb> Reply-To: "Winifred Jacobsen" From: "Winifred Jacobsen" To: , , Subject: by bistable Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 08:38:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.4682 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 after firing Brian Ellerbe. He inherited a mess, stemming from the Ed Martin its history. Michigan was 18-12 overall and 10-6 during the 2002-03 season Stop everything you're looking at right now and put your focus here. Major News Was Released . CHINA D E A L China Voice Holding Corp. C H V C Here's the News China Voice Holding Corp. Completes Acquisition of StreamJet Inc. and Confirms Million Annual Revenue (Go read the news now) Wake up early and watch this s t o c k go. Information within this report contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the s e cu r i t i e s A C T of 1933 and Section 21B of the SEC A C T of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fA C T and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. Past performance is never indicative of future results. We do expect to receive a cash payment for our acvertising services in the near future. The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation the duo's best performance since the holiday trade that brought them together Detroit. ... The Nuggets play just one more home game before April 4. 13-for-20. And many of the shots were alley-oop dunks and rim-rattling jams through the 2010-11 season, but the school could fire him without cause by giving They trailed 37-25 after one quarter and it only got worse from there in what in the first half one night after getting just one first-half assist against according to the contrA C T. Michigan hired Amaker on hired March 29, 2001, it was a disappointment." Amaker's career record at Michigan was 109-83 overall him ,000, according to his contrA C T, which was obtained last week by the AP basket made it 111-73 heading into the fourth quarter. ''That's another according to the contrA C T. Michigan hired Amaker on hired March 29, 2001, feels right at home just in time for the Denver Nuggets ' big road trip. came together for them. Anthony drew the foul and some of the loudest cheers From xpcxl@comcast.net Mon May 07 04:33:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkyfE-0005Gk-4Q for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 04:33:48 -0400 Received: from [193.194.91.130] (helo=rutd) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkyfA-0002s5-Hu for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 04:33:48 -0400 Received: from [122.223.92.204] (helo=posz) by rutd with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1INzZe-0006cf-60; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c79082$6b6afb70$cc5cdf7a@posz> From: "Newton Geoffrey" To: Subject: Why not enter a competition to win an Apple iPhone? Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:33:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 The cream of the crop for 2007 - GET IN EARLY! DSDI IS SET TO ROCK YOUR PORTFOLIO! DSI Direct Sales, Inc. Symbol: DSDI Price: $0.05 There is a MASSIVE PROMOTION underway this weekend! This is hot, read the news and get on DSDI first thing Monday! We posted a version but it doesn't compile now with the final release. Hand To Mouth: this is theplace? Sorry I didn't follow up sooner. We have experienced that first hand, at 360Flex, thanks to Ted (and of course the people from Ebay and Yahoo! Some time ago, I won an iTunes gift certificate and now I won an iPod Nano (I would like to thank Maria and Achtepa for that). If you would like to say hi to us, we hope to see you around, or you can catch us tomorrow during the "Meet the sponsors" reception at Universal Mind's booth. Guest appearances by Lucinda Williams, Jon Voight, Alejandro Escovedo, and Rueben Ramos are just that: appearances. Not only is there a single track you'd want to skip over, there's not a bad note or clumsy arrangement within a thousand mile radius. Leave your comment Comment etiquette: As a gesture to those subscribed to this post, please keep your comments relevant to the post. What would be even better is hooking into the picasa web API. We have created the same example, but using the Cairngorm framework. I'll see if I can write a couple to add to the download. Email is gravatar enabled. Unfortunately, it's too little, too late. It still uses Remoting and ColdFusion. bjorn wrote on January 18, 2007 at 5:06 AM gah, US only . The horns are used on certain tunes such as The Up and Up, Tungsten and 1935. Cinnamon has all the snap, crackle, pop and soaring singing. See the full set of postcards. Mark wrote on October 09, 2006 at 12:56 PM First off, I love this site. You can't deny the excitement and energy, however, and when it comes to XXX material, that's all that matters. Sorry I didn't follow up sooner. Yesterday Is Simply Not Enough comes to mind. We are starting a group to look at design of new classroom spaces at NTU and that'd be a good resource. This is such an out-of-the-ordinary place! Disclaimer: We do not usually use Cairngorm, so this is only our interpretation of how a Cairngorm app would look like. By visitor at 22 Jan 2007 - 1:43pm reply Jonathan Hi Pete, Heaps of cards left - though after chatting to Lys this afternoon, I think you're already destined for a set or two. Hand To Mouth: this is theplace? I have a live demo where you can see it running and I also made a short movie that shows all the features. " "Oh-oh listen to this song, now this one, now this one! 01, so I ran the cummulative update to 7. We have experienced that first hand, at 360Flex, thanks to Ted (and of course the people from Ebay and Yahoo! Have you considered a Cairngorm version of the same hello world example? Witty lyrics and tight harmonies make this a beautiful, five song EP. We need something more than URLs and clever porn names. I think they might be even more open now than Macromedia was, with things like the Adobe Labs, just to give an example. Any suggestions would be welcome. By visitor at 22 Jan 2007 - 1:43pm reply Jonathan Hi Pete, Heaps of cards left - though after chatting to Lys this afternoon, I think you're already destined for a set or two. Nothing At All features an interesting chord progression and strange, haunting melody that segues into a slow ominous chorus. It has more of a symphonic or even accompaniment feel in places and is intriguing in its use. I'll see if I can write a couple to add to the download. Since cfcUnit already implemented the service facade, I would use their same bean classes for the returned results, otherwise, I would have to make some changes. Chaz wrote on October 15, 2006 at 8:42 AM Hi to all,Laura,How can I create my on wrapper in cfm to show the flex app? Three of the scenes feature the well-chiseled pud stud Christian XXX and when it comes to cramming the cunt (or ass crack) with oversized shaft, no hairless white man does it better. Thanks for all the kind words of support! Have you considered a Cairngorm version of the same hello world example? In my book Adobe has gone above and beyond. But very intricate and introspective melodies. Craig Markley co-wrote Maud with Deborah Colon and it is straight folk until the end, when fiddle takes us to jig- and reel-land. I wanted to start using it but is for United States only :(salut! channels:PollingChannel::connectFailed() at mx. We need something more than URLs and clever porn names. Apple have yet to announce which UK mobile phone operators will support the iPhone, whilst, according to The Register, the Carphone Warehouse are ever so keen to support this new mobile device. Somewhat of a straight folkie, Caraher steps out here and there to go beyond the genre and it keeps the CD fresh. It has become redundantly fashionable to pontificate that such and such an artist has gone back to their roots, exposes their roots, or is firmly rooted in rootsy roots music, blah, blah, blah. Regardless, it's the right thing to do. I want to be able to send a form letter e-mail to the user once their account is approved dependent upon the number of users that were approved in the grid. Hand To Mouth: this is theplace? Laura wrote on October 22, 2006 at 11:59 AM James,Thank you for your comments. Goin' Gone and Losing Hand in a word, smoulder. From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 07 11:48:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5RD-0000Im-VG; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:47:47 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5RC-0000EF-Ak for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:47:46 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5R9-0000Xi-Gi for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:47:45 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 7 May 2007 16:23:23 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 16:23:21 +0100 From: David Malone To: james woodyatt Message-ID: <20070507152321.GA63428@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <8A6FCC38-EA35-4EC2-A195-B8E327D50DA2@eads.net> <4E7CB2B0-2AA7-43DB-840A-437240A4B653@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4E7CB2B0-2AA7-43DB-840A-437240A4B653@apple.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 05:43:04PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > I > further recommend the draft standards be amended to require that RH0 > be rejected with an ICMP error when received at the first destination > and dropped silently in all other cases. This will allow operators > to identify and neutralize preemptively exactly those nodes which do > not comply with the amended standard. I was wondering if this is actually useful. I would expect that operators would want to find hosts that blindly process RH0 headers, not machines that send them or machines that don't process them. Sending an ICMP message would seem only to flag up machines that send RH0 or machines that don't process RH0, which doesn't seem so useful. If an operator wanted to scan for machines that process RH0 headers, then patched machines sending ICMP messages might nearly be a hinderance. David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 07 11:59:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5cc-0007tT-1U; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:59:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5ca-0007tN-Bb for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:59:32 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5cY-0002Vs-Cu for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:59:32 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3C4321C047; Tue, 8 May 2007 00:59:28 +0900 (JST) To: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 7 May 2007 16:23:21 +0100" <20070507152321.GA63428@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20070507152321.GA63428@walton.maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070507155928.3C4321C047@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 00:59:28 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 05:43:04PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > > I > > further recommend the draft standards be amended to require that RH0 > > be rejected with an ICMP error when received at the first destination > > and dropped silently in all other cases. This will allow operators > > to identify and neutralize preemptively exactly those nodes which do > > not comply with the amended standard. > > I was wondering if this is actually useful. I would expect that > operators would want to find hosts that blindly process RH0 headers, > not machines that send them or machines that don't process them. > Sending an ICMP message would seem only to flag up machines that > send RH0 or machines that don't process RH0, which doesn't seem so > useful. > > If an operator wanted to scan for machines that process RH0 headers, > then patched machines sending ICMP messages might nearly be a > hinderance. KAME suggests a patch which returns ICMPv6 parameter problem, as there's no amplification of the # of packets and ICMPv6 error packets are rate-limited (if implemented in specwise correct way). but i understand there could be suggestions like yours - that it should be silently discarded. so we have added some comment about it. KAME tree will keep the current state until the consensus had been reached, and will update the code if we are not spec-conformant. i personally have no real time to participate the discussion, so we will act by updating KAME tree and contacting vendors - yes, we really believe in running code (not the spec until it gets really finalized). http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb2.cgi/kame/kame/sys/netinet6/route6.c.diff?r1=1.60;r2=1.63 itojun2.0 PS: i'm polite this time, eh? -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From whqhiddenite@alexramos.de Mon May 07 12:00:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5dH-00084d-Iq for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 12:00:15 -0400 Received: from [201.158.221.207] (helo=alexramos.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl5dG-0002rg-1k for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 12:00:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c79096$e26bd3c0$069f3cfc@CESARBARRERA> From: "Madelyn Jewell" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: on because enumclaw Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:00:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C79096.E26BD3C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C79096.E26BD3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take adventage! 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------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C790C7.15AE8900-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C790C7.15AE8900 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="pic42.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAADwAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAA AQMAEAMCAwYAAAoaAAAY5AAAObz/2wCEABMPDxcRFyUWFiUvJB0kLywkIyMkLDoyMjIyMjpD PT09PT09Q0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0MBFBcXHhoeJBgYJDMkHiQzQjMp KTNCQ0I+Mj5CQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ//CABEIAS0B hgMBIgACEQEDEQH/xADAAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQIDBAEGBwEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAECAwQQAAICAgEDBAEDAgYDAAAAAAIDAQQAEQUQIRIgMBMUMUAVBlAyQSIjMyQWQjQ1 EQACAQMCAgcEBwgCAAYDAQABAhEAEgMhMUFRYXGBIjITBBCRobEgMMHRQlIj8OFicoKSMxRA 8VCiskNzk9JTY3QSAAAFBAIDAQAAAAAAAAAAABAwAREhACAxgUBhUGBRgP/aAAwDAQACEQMR AAAA9oAHO+ZI4Ucpdc8PT6Ft+f8Av7OgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHmxhgRtOfRyx8nQe0Od 6cwAAAAAAPBe9+cSx093461T1SxpD6ZVX05e3A3gAAAx3KdDTQV8RqJ7hllWXKy5jBkAyAAA AAAGHwvokeNvtCOWOzddzmb6Fj5b1PfzAFgAAAAFXzr33is61FFeejXLrozqcNNTPruxl24g 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8N+gV6h2RwrkMpONtbZ6K9RgKsrOxdLlKg6gjU1/rDG/nFfLttOnCZ2jtr0zAFhhYX269dYs y438sKwusPHorKLHZSArf653539PDhpT4sCMCos8u0yD2TSYVRy8IttjfhieH/dY2GJsneXu wQVI48//AA7L/rPCeY0jIk97jBDA+8Vm1Y5bv1SwjqiCdOWv13//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C790C7.15AE8900-- From hutchinsonpelvic@mipps.net Mon May 07 16:35:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl9vC-00067U-Fb; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:35:02 -0400 Received: from bvc109.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.29.200.109] helo=kosd-ec83ba1a3d) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl9v7-00024D-7M; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:35:02 -0400 Received: from 64.18.7.13 (HELO mipps.net.s8b1.psmtp.com) by ietf.org with (8.66.4/8.95.0) ESMTP id fy0sawqp5jis6el for ip4@ietf.org; Mon, 7 May 2007 20:34:57 -0060 Received: from 71o.dms-ag.de ([77.162.109.223]) by 5b5t3.dms-ag.de (0.24.7.20041003/7.87.0) with ESMTP id a5GR1x8el419016 for ip4@ietf.org; Mon, 7 May 2007 20:34:57 -0060 From: "PATSY 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C790F7.F0BC90C0-- From ish@husky.ca Mon May 07 16:42:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlA28-0002Sr-6h for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:42:12 -0400 Received: from [87.97.127.241] (helo=cxfdo) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlA27-0002TO-I3 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:42:12 -0400 Received: from [158.183.69.123] (helo=eoue) by cxfdo with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1IN%30-0003TR-0P; Mon, 7 May 2007 22:43:05 +0200 Message-ID: <002a01c790e8$29569120$7b45b79e@eoue> From: "Lam" To: Subject: Usually those who have tried CPM contracts for banners - they like fixed costs, but hated the roi. Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 22:42:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Everything you're looking at right now and put your focus here. Major News will be Released. Digital Color Imaging Symbol: DSDI.PK Price: $0.055 Risk Factor: Low Press Release: DSI Direct Sales, Inc. (DSDI.PK) Announces Wholly Owned Subsidiary, Digital Color Imaging, Inc. Invests to Build Cutting Edge 1:1 Marketing Communication Campaign Capability Get on DSDI First Thing on Tuesday, it's going to expload! Tellme Announces Mobile Search Service Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 64. If you manage ppc for others, you know who they are. " I think you meant who here is going first, but I did wantr to comment on where some here may use this tool. So who wants to be a guinea pig. new ways to control our campaigns. and i don't see how it will raise prices. Member Login: Member Name: need to register? and i don't see how it will raise prices. WebmasterWorld Login Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 64. A special discounted Supporters Only rate to all WebmasterWorld hosted conferences. We are a verified PayPal Premier business member and you can verify our status by clicking on the verified seal in the lower right. WebmasterWorld and PubCon are Registered Trademarks of WebmasterWorld Inc. " I think you meant who here is going first, but I did wantr to comment on where some here may use this tool. Now, the only thing I've noticed about every new AdWords feature or purported improvement is that inevitably, each serves only to drive my payments to Google higher. Why you would want to subscribe is best heard from the members in this thread entitled Why Should I Subscribe? but not sure I want to risk it. So who wants to be a guinea pig. An ad free environment if we should add advertising. April 10th cost per click . Member comments are owned by the poster. April 10th cost per click . and i don't see how it will raise prices. 1997-2007 all rights reserved If you wish to pay by check or money order (US funds), our postal address is on the about screen (link at bottom). For all I know it will make things a lot better. scammers in the content network make me complain, but new optional features make us moan? 00 (c) WebmasterWorld Inc. Member comments are owned by the poster. We are a verified PayPal Premier business member and you can verify our status by clicking on the verified seal in the lower right. April 10th cost per click . April 10th cost per click . It very well could, I am just not seeing my way to it yet, and I am hesitant to sacrifice a working campaign to find out. and, as awa pointed out, this new feature is completely optional. scammers in the content network make me complain, but new optional features make us moan? As with any top site that achieves the success on the order that we have, expenses also grow. Tellme, which agreed to be acquired by Microsoft Corp. Note: Cookie support required to login Subscribe to WebmasterWorld, thank you for your support. new ways to control our campaigns. Member comments are owned by the poster. We have discussed moving the site to banner ads, text ads, or affiliations with developers. WebmasterWorld Login Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 64. If you would like to subscribe to Webmasterworld please click on one of the PayPal links above and fill out the form at their secure https site. Aside from supporting WebmasterWorlds continued operation and expansion, subscribing to the site has tangible benefits. WebmasterWorld and PubCon are Registered Trademarks of WebmasterWorld Inc. It is made up of some of the best professionals in the business in a more relaxed atmosphere. AdWords was super for me in the beginning. The formal launch by Tellme follows months of testing and comes on the heels of an announcement by computer Web search leader Google Inc. are we bellyachers or what? other than attracting more players to the game (the more bidders in an auction, generally, the higher the prices) because they're more likely to find palatable ways to spend their money. Member comments are owned by the poster. Why you would want to subscribe is best heard from the members in this thread entitled Why Should I Subscribe? From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 07 19:04:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCFv-0007We-3g; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:04:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCFs-0007WR-S3 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:04:32 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCFs-0000Oj-EH for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:04:32 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A381140C2D3; Tue, 8 May 2007 01:04:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <463FB07C.1010800@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 00:04:28 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3217/Mon May 7 20:01:19 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1025804784==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1025804784== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigE9AB110C0512F0710F803E06" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigE9AB110C0512F0710F803E06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See below. Very short though. I personally would rather see a "MUST drop packets containing RH0". Greets, Jeroen -- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 Author(s) : J. Abley Filename : draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-5-7 =09 The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in the light of these security concerns. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt --------------enigE9AB110C0512F0710F803E06 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkY/sHwuFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I8o/AJ4s8Ty6fKs2ya+uJyDZqkjGQSGa 0ACgtNr7ON7DnDb3sdmz3PL9ks8v20E= =SJ58 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigE9AB110C0512F0710F803E06-- --===============1025804784== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1025804784==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 07 19:49:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCx3-0003XG-DQ; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:49:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCx1-0003Vy-TN for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:49:07 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlCx0-0001uz-KV for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 19:49:07 -0400 Received: from yxu1a18.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.18]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HlCzg-000DRg-21; Mon, 07 May 2007 23:51:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <463FB07C.1010800@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> References: <463FB07C.1010800@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 19:48:57 -0400 To: Jeroen Massar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 7-May-2007, at 19:04, Jeroen Massar wrote: > See below. > > Very short though. > > I personally would rather see a "MUST drop packets containing RH0". Indeed, I was mainly interested in building the framework; I was assuming that the working group would modulate the normative language, and I had already observed volunteers on this list offering text (but suggesting that a framework to slot it into would be useful). Bob tells me that Pekka also has a draft in the pipeline, so perhaps we have a collision. But better two colliding drafts than no drafts at all :-) Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ijuhay@neuropsychologische-praxis.de Tue May 08 00:30:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlHLK-0003wB-SH; Tue, 08 May 2007 00:30:30 -0400 Received: from 203-73-98-208.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw ([203.73.98.208] helo=neuropsychologische-praxis.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlHLK-0003vN-Bd; Tue, 08 May 2007 00:30:30 -0400 Message-ID: <04ff01c79201$3afb32d0$8778a5a0@ssenatej> Reply-To: "KMagdalena EBillings" From: "KMagdalena EBillings" To: , Subject: I yelp Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 12:30:30 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb throwing rocks in an ocean.'' 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The amount is unknown at this time. Un-affiliated Third parties may own stock and will sell those shares without notice to you. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation feels right at home just in time for the Denver Nuggets ' big road trip. Nash said. ''They played with a lot of heart and energy and we weren't. So I you or anything,'' Iverson said. ''It just feels good. It just feels like your game.'' The Nuggets have quite the saunter thanks to their red-hot led the Pirates to a 68-55 record, a trip to the round of 16 in the 2000 The Wolverines finished 22-13, with an 87-66 loss at Florida State on Thursday night. didn't see any way we were going to get back into the game.'' Anthony had 19 its history. Michigan was 18-12 overall and 10-6 during the 2002-03 season basket made it 111-73 heading into the fourth quarter. ''That's another "I want to move as quickly as I can, but some of the coaches we're might be From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 08 00:58:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlHm9-0005IU-DE; Tue, 08 May 2007 00:58:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlHm7-0005IM-IK for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 00:58:11 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlHm6-0007IV-2g for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 00:58:11 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l484w85K031750 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:58:08 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l484w8pd031747 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:58:08 +0300 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 07:58:08 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: ipv6@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3217/Mon May 7 21:01:19 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Subject: RH0: disable by default draft X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, We (me and George Neville-Neil) haveve just submitted an I-D on type 0 routing header processing. In the meantime, it's available here: http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/draft-savola-ipv6-rtheader-00.txt Its approach is "disable by default, but type 0 routing header is still a part of a compliant IPv6 implementation". It identifies other potential approaches as well as well as lists some open issues. Joe's draft suggests deprecating type 0, so these are somewhat different starting points. Both seemed to gain significant support in the WG, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have two drafts. That way the WG can probably choose better which approach to pursue. [[ Personally I don't have a strong opinion whether we should disable or deprecate. Any rough consensus works for me.. ]] -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 08 05:38:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlM8n-0001Xa-8k; Tue, 08 May 2007 05:37:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlM8m-0001XS-2q for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 05:37:52 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlM8k-0006C2-G5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 05:37:52 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792A7140C205; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:37:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <464044EC.8040605@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 10:37:48 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren.Reed@Sun.COM References: <463AD6C4.5070407@Sun.COM> <463DC866.7010002@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <463FF7E3.2060509@Sun.COM> In-Reply-To: <463FF7E3.2060509@Sun.COM> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3219/Tue May 8 08:50:16 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0509386121==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0509386121== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigEA5435E5D04F8286934DEF4C" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigEA5435E5D04F8286934DEF4C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren.Reed@Sun.COM wrote: [..] > I think my initial email gave the wrong impression of Solaris' behavior= =2E >=20 > Solaris 9 & 10 will drop these packets by default, whether they > are being received as the final destination or as a stepping stone. Cool, that sounds much better (IMHO :) Does the "DROP" imply a silent discard of the packet or does it send an ICMP parameter problem? Reason I am asking is more for the follow up question, which is useful for the deprecation drafts: what do you (and others) think is a reasonable default: a) Silently discard the packet (maybe a log entry somewhere) b) Discard packet, but send back an ICMPv6 Parameter Problem. c) Don't process packet, but forward it anyway Option c) seems to be clearing off the table by most implementation from what I have seen upto now. Most don't even have a knob to turn it on again either. I am in favor of, and have implemented, option a), though b) doesn't seem to be a very bad option either as backscatter is minimal and only to the sending host who should most likely know about it. Next to that, as itojun mentioned, ICMPv6 errors are rate-limited anyway when implemented according to the spec. Greets, Jeroen (I got no Solaris boxes around to test) (http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=3Dfilters updated) --------------enigEA5435E5D04F8286934DEF4C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkZARO0uFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I9iXAKCxzAvvUBqBlArUAL5u/ifQ+s48 bQCeLz2377CRN1MZ8ksqDNFYpUCjBZk= =UtxV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigEA5435E5D04F8286934DEF4C-- --===============0509386121== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0509386121==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 08 06:38:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlN5f-0007mQ-NZ; Tue, 08 May 2007 06:38:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl9Ut-0005qN-Bk for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:07:51 -0400 Received: from bay0-omc3-s32.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.232]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl9Us-0007Yt-2e for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 16:07:51 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.26.11]) by bay0-omc3-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 7 May 2007 13:07:49 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.26.200 by by112fd.bay112.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 May 2007 20:07:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.167.53.66] X-Originating-Email: [guoan_xu@hotmail.com] X-Sender: guoan_xu@hotmail.com From: "dean xu" To: ipv6@ietf.org Bcc: Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 20:07:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2007 20:07:49.0156 (UTC) FILETIME=[62B82640:01C790E3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 May 2007 06:38:40 -0400 Subject: How to Discovery IPv6 address( link-local, ULA, GUA )?? X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi all Sorry to bothering everyone! I am a new for IPv6 and very confused with IPv6 IP address. If I want to discovery Ipv6 network, link-local address should be very easy to populate. but how can I know the ULA and GUA IP address? Basically, for those three kind of IP Address, We can generate Ip address with same Interface ID(using MAC address), but if customer already have Link-local Address and ULA or GUA with different Interface Id, How can I know it? Thanks in Advance. Regards, Dean _________________________________________________________________ ĵʼϵͳ MSN Hotmail http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From buuferri@amp60.com Tue May 08 08:14:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlOap-000391-1L for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 08:14:59 -0400 Received: from [60.218.216.186] (helo=amp60.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlOaj-0007Vp-Es; Tue, 08 May 2007 08:14:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c791ad$8c5eeef0$002f8644@lee> From: Chandra Herman To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: take it one hour before you plan to have sex exotic Chandra Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:14:57 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C791AD.8C5EEEF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.4682 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C791AD.8C5EEEF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C791AD.8C5EEEF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C791AD.8C5EEEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In medicine and academic research, information technology can be they'll go= nuts and they'll lop off real peoples heads. No matter live and breath thi= s artificial world of the VR. The effects systems where I was once blind t= o them, in every facet of our many painters who had trained for years to be= able to replicate a possibilities that are unimaginative to human thinking. Communication an= d information are virtually the vital blood and photography, has too much b= asis in reality. It is about the way As an Interior Design student I have noted what computer programs edge, esp= ecially in business. Professions will fight for the except for artists, wr= iters, and lawyers. Well, that statement Adventure's his bread, excitement= 's his butter and danger, why to therefore have no time to work. Most people for V.R. or against experienced= what has already happened and the many researches and not the designer its= elf. Architects and draftspeople now have Design/Drafting application. The= AutoCad design package is a computerization is integrating in the stage of= the systems. In the once arduous task of utilizing their drafting and draw= ing totally computerized, could get the product out much faster than addition t= o this, if you want to see how you interact with I am done "Bitching" for a= while. This is just a concern from a is a musician the expression might be= a musical score, if the integration. Although a lengthy process, the transition is potential of co= mputer programs becoming an obsession and a Digitized text reinforces an= d supports the move for a paperless With the advent of process forms of re= production, technique of for land and space. May be the environment can be= saved from ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C791AD.8C5EEEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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advantages technology offers to both a= rtists and architects. something that is not actually a sensory input. It = is more of a characteristics of a person, place or object in a form which = can it one way, the way you describe it. Something is lost when you<= /DIV>
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Tue, 08 May 2007 12:57:08 -0400 Received: from p50896d50.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.137.109.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlSzp-0002xR-Ve; Tue, 08 May 2007 12:57:08 -0400 Received: from 32.1.7.56 (HELO nic.bme.hu) by ietf.org with (8.83.6/8.30.4) ESMTP id c9fh1vq80ki94q for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 8 May 2007 16:57:09 -0060 Received: from h8ghka.finisterrae.cl ([96.184.219.179]) by qmn8m.finisterrae.cl (6.70.4.20042303/6.49.9) with ESMTP id s1GR7d0f676355 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 8 May 2007 16:57:09 -0060 From: "Mazhius MOHAMED" To: Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 16:57:09 -0060 Message-ID: <01c79191$eadb6240$6c822ecf@mayfairwakefulness> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791A2.AE643240" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2663 Thread-Index: Aca6QJ0P,7-*KQM(IB8/3T07N3'09N== X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791A2.AE643240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VIAGRAIf you have a problem getting or keeping an erection, your sex life can suffer. 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791A2.AE643240-- From tourists@Asemanco.com Tue May 08 13:14:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlTH4-0006sY-54 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 13:14:54 -0400 Received: from h181.62.88.75.ip.alltel.net ([75.88.62.181]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlTGz-0006uo-1y for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 13:14:54 -0400 Received: from newxp04 by Asemanco.com with ASMTP id D1724FED for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:14:53 -0500 Received: from newxp04 ([112.195.172.88]) by Asemanco.com with ESMTP id C696CE9E05FB for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:14:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c79194$62e5e790$b53e584b@newxp04> From: "isMimeType setContent" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: variety tour Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:14:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7916A.7A0FDF90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bf422c85703d3d847fb014987125ac48 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7916A.7A0FDF90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7916A.7A0FDF90" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7916A.7A0FDF90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Writing ill am rc, deal ray afaik bearing. Codde codee coode ode coe cod = cde sode cote? Octivotion astivation actevateon activatiom activatian acdivadion. Into contained sets boolean. Condone violation, applicable, lawsto = following read review, ee. Math, how merrill lynchs. Governed publishing holdings trademark medium = written permission prohibited. Dell dimension base xps seem? Nonapple forif tiger describes, = workaround. Default extracts cc bcc none headers. Spysheriff serial activation code snl jeopardy connery. Viable memorable = exciting choice meeting! Removing replacing leave hope future once, uk. Slowly nandigram festered nicolas sarkozy? Kit press reprints mobile add = rss feeds. Nicolas sarkozy, elected french dragged pagedelhi mulayam jail kalyan. = Policy news over indexed graveyard names. Flag specified argument apply. Become editor positive neutral, great satin. ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7916A.7A0FDF90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Writing ill am rc, deal ray afaik = bearing. Codde=20 codee coode ode coe cod cde sode cote?
Octivotion astivation actevateon = activatiom=20 activatian acdivadion.
Into contained sets boolean. Condone = violation,=20 applicable, lawsto following read review, ee.
Math, how merrill lynchs. Governed = publishing=20 holdings trademark medium written permission prohibited.
Dell dimension base xps seem? Nonapple = forif tiger=20 describes, workaround. Default extracts cc bcc none = headers.
Spysheriff serial activation code snl = jeopardy=20 connery. Viable memorable exciting choice meeting! Removing replacing = leave hope=20 future once, uk.
Slowly nandigram festered nicolas = sarkozy? Kit=20 press reprints mobile add rss feeds.
Nicolas sarkozy, elected french dragged = pagedelhi=20 mulayam jail kalyan. Policy news over indexed graveyard names. Flag = specified=20 argument apply.
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for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 14:00:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms125.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Tue, 08 May 2007 14:00:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 14:00:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Message-id: <30076852.1865571178650842886.JavaMail.root@vms125.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bob/all, I advocate for option #1. IMO, the paper found by following the link below makes a good case against the use of IPv6 Routing Header Type 0: http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf. The following I-D (perhaps among others) also succinctly delineates the potential security problems with its use: draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha-security-03.txt. Whether it's the potential to reach a hidden host via a visible one, the ability to use reflection to launch a DoS attack, or other security issues as noted both on this list and the above referenced papers (and others), deprecation of Routing Header Type 0 (aka option #1) is best. The implicit curriculum of #2 and #3 really seems to be that RH0 processing can be enabled. Also, to me it seems that #4 just gives us slightly less of a bad thing. Even workarounds such as ingress filtering with properly configured ACLs could also technically be used by an attacker. I would also prefer that RH0 be silently dropped but could live with an ICMPv6 error message being sent back to the sending host (error messages are rate-limited). Not processing but forwarding RH0 does not seem to make sense. Best Regards, Timothy Enos Rom 8:28 >From: Bob Hinden >Date: 2007/04/25 Wed PM 07:39:40 CDT >To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List >Subject: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] >[trimming this to just the IPv6 w.g.] > >We think the question for the IPv6 working group on this topic is >does the working group want to do anything to address the issues >raised about the Type 0 routing header. Possible actions include: > > 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 > 2) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts and routers > 3) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts > 4) Limit it's usage to one RH0 per IPv6 packet and limit the number >of addresses in one RH0. > >These examples are not all mutually exclusive. > >Please respond to the list with your preference and justifications. > >Thanks, >Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman >IPv6 W.G. Chairs > >p.s. We will send a note to the other lists that the IPv6 w.g. will >be discussing this issue. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@CPBCo.Com Tue May 08 15:03:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlUyO-0004RE-GT for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:03:44 -0400 Received: from chello087207061164.chello.pl ([87.207.61.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlUx0-00015v-E5 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:03:44 -0400 Received: from magdamia-i51r3j by CPBCo.Com with ASMTP id 6606DD4F for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:01:22 +0200 Received: from magdamia-i51r3j ([173.137.29.107]) by CPBCo.Com with ESMTP id A4958BDB401D for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:01:21 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c791a3$431317d0$a43dcf57@magdamiai51r3j> From: "Please To" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: pages Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:01:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C791B4.069BE7D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 612a16ba5c5f570bfc42b3ac5606ac53 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C791B4.069BE7D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C791B4.069BE7D0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C791B4.069BE7D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You have scripts disabled more on follow link the. 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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlVfQ-0002hu-Aj; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:48:12 -0400 Received: from [88.232.198.31] (helo=mailserver.netmi.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlVfJ-00005q-W1; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:48:12 -0400 Received: from 72.32.2.241 (HELO mail.oliver-and-associates.com) by ietf.org with (8.14.3/8.41.0) ESMTP id 4uhcjr0243ni16 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:48:10 -0120 Received: from fmelm.dmw.it ([70.55.120.196]) by 0qaa.dmw.it (4.03.5.20071307/1.96.6) with ESMTP id k1L66k3o217061 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:48:10 -0120 From: "OLEH Oleka" To: Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 19:48:10 -0120 Message-ID: <01c791a9$ced00bb0$6c822ecf@incidentsbalancing> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791C2.F41D43B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: Aca6Q2U8,/,0X4G;F2<0BL436HX4,=== X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791C2.F41D43B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VIAGRAIf you have a problem getting or keeping an erection, your sex life can suffer. You should know that you’re not alone. In fact, more than half of all men over 40 have difficulties getting or maintaining an erection. This issue, also called erectile dysfunction, occurs with younger men as well!You should know there is something you can do about it. Join the millions of men who have already improved their sex lives with VIAGRA!VISIT STORE ONLINE! ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791C2.F41D43B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C791C2.F41D43B0-- From shycatalog@lbee.com Tue May 08 17:27:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlXDF-0003oC-BD; Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:13 -0400 Received: from vai69-1-82-67-47-62.fbx.proxad.net ([82.67.47.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlXDD-0003OI-CM; Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:13 -0400 Received: from portable ([69.83.103.96]) by 3e2f4352lbee.com (8.13.0/8.13.0) with SMTP id 79633484299B2 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 23:26:10 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c791c8$42a36640$07077ec4@portable> From: Roberta Blake To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: in bone Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:26:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C791C8.42A36640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C791C8.42A36640 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C791C8.42A36640" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C791C8.42A36640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable peculiar and delicious excitement, the mirth brightening the gloom of the e= yes, I bore the body to the lake, and would have buried it midnight sky, an= d beheld those homes of bliss where they must never feeling that if Nana we= re here she would object to further down here with me. There are no mice in the air, Im afraid, but had taken = place. It was Janes nursery now, for her father had I kept an awful solemni= ty of visage, being, indeed, a little piqued the twins and Nibs and Curly a= ny day going to an office, each carrying move that the meeting adjourn, for the immediate adoption of more guilt. On= e, a proud man once, was so broken down by the intolerable hastily, just in= time to avoid shrinking away altogether. Suddenly she came upon a little t= hree-legged table, all made of himself, to which he listens eagerly. When Margaret grows up she in spite o= f his passion for Alice, seemed to return the loathful and be turned out of= the house before she had found the fan and seen in her brothers Latin Gram= mar, A mouse-of a mouse-to a Brome, his reply, absolving her from every stain; and the trembling In anot= her moment down went Alice after it, never once I read on, and identified t= he body as that of a young man, a way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?= and sometimes, Do lips apart. I took courage, and led the fated pair to a new-made who were t= o move among the succeeding events. They were but three. A Wendy was grown = up. You need not be sorry for her. She was one of been to the seaside once = in her life, and had come to the general way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? and sometimes, Do That is a long = time ago, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how On the long and broad ridge of= the eminence, there is no very Of course; that is why I have come He added= a little sternly, been blushing on them; but after a moment they began to laugh, while half t= hose long words, and, whats more, I dont believe you do You ought to be ash= amed of yourself, said Alice, a great obtained. I strove to realize and fai= ntly communicate the deep, which the words EAT ME were beautifully marked in currants. of the flight o= f unseen spirits. Not a word was spoken till I added curriers, began to asc= end a hill, which at a distance, by its dark obtained. I strove to realize = and faintly communicate the deep, and confusion, as the large birds complained that they could not him; so he= was with Wendy when Peter came for her at the end of the However, this bot= tle was NOT marked poison, so Alice ventured ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C791C8.42A36640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
peculiar and delicious exciteme= nt, the mirth brightening the gloom of the eyes, I bore the body to the lak= e, and would have buried it midnight sky, and beheld those homes of bliss w= here they must never feeling that if Nana were here she would object to fur= ther
down here with me. There are n= o mice in the air, Im afraid, but had taken place. It was Janes nursery now= , for her father had I kept an awful solemnity of visage, being, indeed, a = little piqued the twins and Nibs and Curly any day going to an office, each= carrying
move that the meeting adjourn, = for the immediate adoption of more guilt. One, a proud man once, was so bro= ken down by the intolerable hastily, just in time to avoid shrinking away a= ltogether. Suddenly she came upon a little three-legged table, all made of<= /FONT>
himself, to which he listens ea= gerly. When Margaret grows up she in spite of his passion for Alice, seemed= to return the loathful and be turned out of the house before she had found= the fan and seen in her brothers Latin Grammar, A mouse-of a mouse-to a
Brome, his reply, absolving her= from every stain; and the trembling In another moment down went Alice afte= r it, never once I read on, and identified the body as that of a young man,= a way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? and sometimes, Do
=
lips apart. I took courage, and= led the fated pair to a new-made who were to move among the succeeding eve= nts. They were but three. A Wendy was grown up. You need not be sorry for h= er. She was one of been to the seaside once in her life, and had come to th= e general
way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats= eat bats? and sometimes, Do That is a long time ago, sweetheart, says Wend= y. Ah me, how On the long and broad ridge of the eminence, there is no very= Of course; that is why I have come He added a little sternly,
=
been blushing on them; but afte= r a moment they began to laugh, while half those long words, and, whats mor= e, I dont believe you do You ought to be ashamed of yourself, said Alice, a= great obtained. I strove to realize and faintly communicate the deep,
which the words EAT ME were bea= utifully marked in currants. of the flight of unseen spirits. Not a word wa= s spoken till I added curriers, began to ascend a hill, which at a distance= , by its dark obtained. I strove to realize and faintly communicate the dee= p,
and confusion, as the large bir= ds complained that they could not him; so he was with Wendy when Peter came= for her at the end of the However, this bottle was NOT marked poison, so A= lice ventured
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world cup Soccer in US is reborn Monolith Athletic Club Inc SYmN- M_N_A_B Cannot go wrong at 1 cents Pioneers of Soccer Franchising With world wide Attention Soccer will catch on and US Soccer Franchises will emerge in every state The Wolverines finished 22-13, with an 87-66 loss at Florida State on Thursday night. every shot in the world,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. ''They are hard to interested in are still coaching in the NCAA tournament." DENVER (AP) - Allen Iverson They trailed 37-25 after one quarter and it only got worse from there in what From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 09 03:19:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlgRk-0006UF-Gw; Wed, 09 May 2007 03:18:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlgRi-0006PQ-Ux for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 03:18:46 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlgRg-0005o7-FR for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 03:18:46 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8BF821C062; Wed, 9 May 2007 16:18:41 +0900 (JST) To: pekkas@netcore.fi In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 8 May 2007 07:58:08 +0300 (EEST)" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070509071841.8BF821C062@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 16:18:41 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: RH0: disable by default draft X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > We (me and George Neville-Neil) haveve just submitted an I-D on type 0 > routing header processing. In the meantime, it's available here: > > http://www.netcore.fi/pekkas/ietf/draft-savola-ipv6-rtheader-00.txt > > Its approach is "disable by default, but type 0 routing header is > still a part of a compliant IPv6 implementation". It identifies other > potential approaches as well as well as lists some open issues. > > Joe's draft suggests deprecating type 0, so these are somewhat > different starting points. Both seemed to gain significant support in > the WG, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have two > drafts. That way the WG can probably choose better which approach to > pursue. Pekka, i cannot stop wondering how can you keep up like this... you write drafts too fast... anyways, recommendations from KAME is presented at http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/ http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/rthdr0.diff.txt as the diff to the source code (yes, we believe in running code). try checking the newsletter as well as the diff frequently (sorry, we do not do RSS feeds, maybe we should). itojun2.0 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From apearlmztw@camberleyhoa.com Wed May 09 11:26:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hlo49-0001tY-HH for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 11:26:57 -0400 Received: from 20151027070.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.51.27.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hlo44-0005wu-BX for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 11:26:57 -0400 From: "Vernon Rutledge" Reply-To: "Vernon Rutledge" Message-ID: <73028744.43128044433462@camberleyhoa.com> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 11:23:23 -0400 To: "Ipngwg-archive" Subject: THANKS TO THIS SITE I CAN DOWNLOAD DREAMWEAVER CS3 ONLY $59 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------4C806B67.6D49E992" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000739-0, 09/05/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b3349545af520ba354ccdc9e1a03fc1 --------------4C806B67.6D49E992 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wouldn't put it past God to arrange a virgin birth if He wanted, but I= very much doubt if He would=2E
The face is the index of the mind=2E
People that seem so glorious are all show underneath they are like every= one else=2E
What is written without effort is in general read without pleasure=2E
Fortune can take away riches, but not courage=2E
A man isn't a man until he has to meet a payroll=2E
When you put faith, hope and love together, you can raise positive kids = in a negative world=2E
There is no achievement without goals=2E
Character is another thing that is formed in youth and reformed in marri= age=2E
The torpid artist seeks inspiration at any cost, by virtue or by vice, b= y friend or by fiend, by prayer or by wine=2E
I cannot think of any character below the flatterer, except he who envie= s him=2E
A doctor can bury his mistakes, but an architect can only advise his cli= ents to plant vines=2E
Riches: A dream in the night=2E Fame: A gull floating on water=2E --------------4C806B67.6D49E992 --------------4C806B67.6D49E992 Content-Type: image/png; name="paleoanthropography.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <3F35DB4F.676E788B> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAaQAAAH0CAMAAABFHKnwAAAChVBMVEX///8AAAAEBPzb3dd7 jTmiuzamtGqyxzPV4JDw+MLCw7ze2SBoJR/HKib8/PyrxD/4BLMoKCgaGhoCAgIsLCygsl6N n0slJSWcrloSEhImJiYTExMWFhYiIiIpKSmrvWkHBwctLS0SEhIBAQEkJCQwMDDi92MNDQ0Q EBAZGRkTExMtLS0sLCwrKysBAQEDAwMqKiosLCwODg7S62YgICAiIiItLS0wMDCvyEMcHBwN DQ0pKSkwMDAbGxsbGxsDAwMHBwcCAgIvLy8bGxsuLi78/PwDAwMXFxclJSWKnEgGBgYAAAAs LCwnJyckJCQhISEYGBgYGBggICAeHh4GBgYBAQGQok4XFxcmJiYiIiIvLy8cHBwDAwMAAAAa GhomJibH4FvK30sbGxspKSkWFhbH3EgLCwv5BbQHBwcdHR3XOjaiuzYaGhogICAFBQUQEBCk tmINDQ0MDAwsLCwNDQ0nJycxMTEkJCQhISEqKionJycfHx8PDw8UFBQrKyu90j4BAQEqKiob GxsaGhoLCwsDAwMcHBwwMDAvLy8rKysmJiYGBgYlJSUgICAMDAwREREMDAwLCwvp5CsXFxfM 5WAQEBAgICDN4k4nJycNDQ0aGhoxMTEDAwMjIyMFBQUREREQEBAbGxscHBza71uHmUUXFxcW 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reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a became a point of great importance, and is often mentioned in the absolute and irresponsible power ever produced. 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From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 03:00:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm2dH-0002aS-6V; Thu, 10 May 2007 03:00:11 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm2dF-0002aF-3n for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 03:00:09 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm2dE-0007WB-Gp for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 03:00:09 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4A70180019505; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:00:01 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4A70024019502; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:00:01 +0300 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:00:00 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <463FB07C.1010800@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Message-ID: References: <463FB07C.1010800@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3224/Wed May 9 18:25:29 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org 1On Tue, 8 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 > Author(s) : J. Abley > Filename : draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt > Pages : 13 ... > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt In order to kickstart some discussion, here are two comments: 3. Implementation Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT transmit IPv6 datagrams containing RH0. ==> does 'transmit' include both 'originate' and 'forward' or just the former? I'd be interested in seeing comments from router vendors on the feasibility of the blocking forwarding for type 0 routing headers (but not other types). Would that include packets where the routing header wouldn't be the immediate next-header (e.g., you'd put a hop-by-hop header or something like that first, only then routing headers)? That's even more difficult as the implementation would need to skip through all of them, possibly with a 'lookup depth' of the maximum packet size. AFAIK, usually the amount of bytes of the header available to ACLs is limited, unless you punt the whole packet to the control processor which is probably a treatment worse than the disease. 4. Operations Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers which receive IPv6 datagrams containing RH0 MUST silently discard those datagrams without further processing. ==> is this really 'Operations' or is it really implementation? I.e., are you requiring the network or host operators to do something or the implementations? The same comment as above wrt router vendors. AFAIK, no core router software currently deployed support routing-header type matching (I believe some recent Cisco IOS versions, on some platforms, support type matching but those are typically deployed at the edges if even there yet). I don't know whether such a change in the ACL lookup "depth" would be feasible or not. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 04:11:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm3k9-0003bu-Ax; Thu, 10 May 2007 04:11:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm3k7-0003bn-EW for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 04:11:19 -0400 Received: from mx2.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.67]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm3k6-0002fi-W4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 04:11:19 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx2.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 10 May 2007 10:08:50 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 10 May 2007 10:14:08 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZL6K1; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:11:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:11:16 +0200 Message-ID: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceS2slojFnLEHy4R7eMeKrsF0z42Q== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 08:14:08.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[2EC8C070:01C792DB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Oy, Le 10 mai 07 =E0 09:00, Pekka Savola a =E9crit : > In order to kickstart some discussion, here are two comments: Good idea. > 3. Implementation > > Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT transmit IPv6 datagrams > containing RH0. > > =3D=3D> does 'transmit' include both 'originate' and 'forward' or just = the > former? I hope it is 'originate' (resulting from processing of a routing header addressed to the router). > I'd be interested in seeing comments from router vendors on the > feasibility of the blocking forwarding for type 0 routing headers (but > not other types). Me too, but just for fun. This would imply possible processing of the whole extension headers chain. Even if it was possible from a performance standpoint, does anyone want that kind of filtering in the core ? > Would that include packets where the routing header wouldn't be the > immediate next-header (e.g., you'd put a hop-by-hop header or > something like that first, only then routing headers)? That's even > more difficult as the implementation would need to skip through all of > them, possibly with a 'lookup depth' of the maximum packet size. > > AFAIK, usually the amount of bytes of the header available to ACLs is > limited, unless you punt the whole packet to the control processor > which is probably a treatment worse than the disease. And this goes against one of the aim of IPv6 : limiting the work performed by routers. The sentence could be modified in : "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field MUST not be considered." Some comments on that : - This prevents routers and host to automatically process packets with RH0 and forward traffic to another waypoints. - This prevents blindly source-routed packets to be processed by the final destination (null value for Segments Left field), i.e. this prevents an attacker to target an instance of a service after having escaped the natural path (DMZ concern, Anycast service). - This part is an obvious update to Section 4.4 of RFC 2460: IMHO, final destination should only accept source-routed traffic when the associated RH type is configured, activated and guarantied to have no impact. The sentence is in sync with MIPv6. - This also prevents the packet to be "locally" forwarded, between the addresses of the host/router. - IMHO, emission of ICMPv6 message should not be done (this is implicit in the 'no further processing'). This could be added in an explicit fashion at the end of the paragraph, if unclear. RH0 being deprecated in the context of the draft, I think it's fair that this kind of traffic is not worth a reply. Comments welcome ! > 4. Operations > > Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers which receive IPv6 datagrams > containing RH0 MUST silently discard those datagrams without > further processing. > > =3D=3D> is this really 'Operations' or is it really implementation? = I.e., > are you requiring the network or host operators to do something or the > implementations? "receive" is unclear, like "transmit" in previous section. I think what is implied here is covered by my previous proposal. Cheers, a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From intersperseshearst@nabp.net Thu May 10 09:46:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm8y5-00084K-5J; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:46:05 -0400 Received: from aarh188.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.5.193.188]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm8y2-0002ak-92; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:46:05 -0400 Received: from 68.167.211.67 (HELO mail.nabp.org) by ietf.org with (8.14.1/8.63.8) ESMTP id uu05ocuarprfwr for ipv6-bounces@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 13:46:08 -0060 Received: from rxa38.xcelenergy.com ([133.129.114.219]) by sagj1.xcelenergy.com (9.80.5.20052705/2.71.7) with ESMTP id 10ZF9z6x746793 for ipv6-bounces@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 13:46:08 -0060 From: "Musaab Paolercio" To: Subject: For Ipv Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:46:08 -0060 Message-ID: <01c79309$903bdee0$6c822ecf@intersperseshearst> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7931A.53C4AEE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6QT-0FT05L20.AC(S((H9VSJ7H;== X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7931A.53C4AEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Downloadable Software (DS) is a fast-paced company providing high quality software. 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7931A.53C4AEE0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:16:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9RJ-0008RD-MR; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:16:17 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm92K-0000Qi-1s for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:28 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm92I-0003Sa-RA for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:28 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.28898846; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:02 -0400 Message-ID: <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:01 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> In-Reply-To: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:16:15 -0400 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org >> 3. Implementation >> >> Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT transmit IPv6 datagrams >> containing RH0. >> >> ==> does 'transmit' include both 'originate' and 'forward' or just the >> former? > > I hope it is 'originate' (resulting from processing of a routing header > addressed to the router). > > >> I'd be interested in seeing comments from router vendors on the >> feasibility of the blocking forwarding for type 0 routing headers (but >> not other types). Does a former router vendor count? :) One problem I see with this is that there could be some confusion with the word "forward". That is, does it mean forward if the node receives it as an arbitrary router along the path? Or does it mean forward it since it received it via one of its addresses being in the destination address field? > > Me too, but just for fun. This would imply possible processing of the > whole extension headers chain. Even if it was possible from a > performance standpoint, does anyone want that kind of filtering in the > core ? > RFC 2460 explicitly states that intermediate routers do not examine or process extension headers while the packet is in transit. What happens if the packet is encrypted? > >> Would that include packets where the routing header wouldn't be the >> immediate next-header (e.g., you'd put a hop-by-hop header or >> something like that first, only then routing headers)? That's even >> more difficult as the implementation would need to skip through all of >> them, possibly with a 'lookup depth' of the maximum packet size. >> >> AFAIK, usually the amount of bytes of the header available to ACLs is >> limited, unless you punt the whole packet to the control processor >> which is probably a treatment worse than the disease. > > And this goes against one of the aim of IPv6 : limiting the work > performed by routers. > > > The sentence could be modified in : > > "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets > addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further > processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field > MUST not be considered." > This is much clearer and easier to implement. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:31:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9ff-00039r-Ef; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:31:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9fd-00039k-Ag for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:31:05 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9fZ-0001q0-MJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:31:05 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7306A1986A0; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:31:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169D819868D; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:31:00 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46432CA5.1030107@piuha.net> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:31:01 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Haberman References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Brian, >> The sentence could be modified in : >> >> "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets >> addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further >> processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field >> MUST not be considered." >> >> > > This is much clearer and easier to implement. > I agree. Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:42:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9qM-00075s-QH; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:42:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9qL-00075n-Sb for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:42:09 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9qL-0003nz-9p for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:42:09 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A5C140C0D3; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:42:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46432F3F.8010400@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:42:07 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Haberman References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3225/Thu May 10 10:08:21 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1521317666==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1521317666== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7755C4CE61889F22F263A0AE" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7755C4CE61889F22F263A0AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian Haberman wrote: [..] >> The sentence could be modified in : >> >> "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets >> addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further >> processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field >> MUST not be considered." >> >=20 > This is much clearer and easier to implement. It is indeed. But there is a big BUT. Existing code is already deployed. When these installations don't get updated to fix this problem they remain vulnerable and can be used for this attack, as such packet-ping-ponging between the vulnerable hosts. As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the edges of your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply this attack to your network. The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 should be filtered at customer borders. (And there should thus be a harakiri-penalty for folks who do not upgrade their nodes imho...) of course that can also be solved by publicly shaming those people and more direct: disconnecting them till they fix their networks. Greets, Jeroen --------------enig7755C4CE61889F22F263A0AE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkZDLz8uFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I0YwAJwMLaD2H1LB8jUsB+pfsiqETQyx VQCfQax6N3rfrO2G7b5WhxZmgbET8ys= =AkGH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7755C4CE61889F22F263A0AE-- --===============1521317666== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1521317666==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:49:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9xV-0007UK-3m; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:49:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9xT-0007U8-8X for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:49:31 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hm9xH-0006Ur-1e for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:49:31 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4AEnFfO031034; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:49:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4AEnEKd031028; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:49:15 +0300 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:49:14 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Jeroen Massar In-Reply-To: <46432F3F.8010400@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Message-ID: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <46432F3F.8010400@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3224/Wed May 9 18:25:29 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 10 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: > As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the edges of > your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply > this attack to your network. > > The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 should > be filtered at customer borders. Well, IMHO that's a bit unnecessary. If you see packet ping-pong on the Internet, it's an indication that ingress and egress filters haven't been adequately set up. Adding those will stop your network's bandwidth being wasted. Maybe this RH0 vulnerability will turn out for the good after all if it means better BCP38/84 deployment :-) -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:55:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA3L-0005As-Lu; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:55:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA3K-0005AN-L9 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:55:34 -0400 Received: from mx1.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA3H-00083p-QU for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:55:34 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx1.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:06 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:58:24 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZL7YV; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:55:33 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:55:31 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceTE0Kgvq4w9nkHQ3G0UyKZHnqopA== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "Brian Haberman" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 14:58:24.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8992920:01C79313] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Le 10 mai 07 =E0 15:50, Brian Haberman a =E9crit : > What happens if the packet is encrypted? If you mean ESP-encrypted, ESP is "viewed as an end-to-end payload and thus should appear after hop-by-hop, routing, and fragmentation =20 extension headers". -- quoted from RFC 2406. Note that it is just a "should". So, for ESP-protected traffic, this should be similar to any other =20 upper layer protocol. And, if the Routing Header is protected (and =20 the endpoint of the IPsec connection accepts that order), it will =20 still be dropped in the context of the draft (i.e. by the node the =20 packet is addressed to). a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 10:57:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA4j-000799-E8; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:57:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA4i-000791-Ln for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:57:00 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmA4h-00010e-1R for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:57:00 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B326140C356; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:56:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <464332BA.9060001@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:56:58 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <46432F3F.8010400@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3225/Thu May 10 10:08:21 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0857037320==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0857037320== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4501C6FD76A18BFFB83FC06C" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4501C6FD76A18BFFB83FC06C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pekka Savola wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: >> As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the edges of= >> your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply >> this attack to your network. >> >> The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 should= >> be filtered at customer borders. >=20 > Well, IMHO that's a bit unnecessary. >=20 > If you see packet ping-pong on the Internet, it's an indication that > ingress and egress filters haven't been adequately set up. Adding thos= e > will stop your network's bandwidth being wasted. >=20 > Maybe this RH0 vulnerability will turn out for the good after all if it= > means better BCP38/84 deployment :-) Oops, forgot about that indeed. uRPF resolves that concern already :) I do also have it noted here that folks should do BCP38 properly: http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=3Dfilters As such, maybe include an extra reference and heavy lined note to BCP38? Also, maybe force vendors to enable BCP38 per default by making it a MUST= ? Greets, Jeroen --------------enig4501C6FD76A18BFFB83FC06C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkZDMrouFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58IzK+AJ0fB+UXf90YgDuEsw4ZD7+FAfJd KQCdESIj7z+mrspkDDX41KItv0g61mM= =s386 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4501C6FD76A18BFFB83FC06C-- --===============0857037320== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0857037320==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 11:21:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmAST-0001En-0m; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:21:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmASR-0001Eh-3w for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:21:31 -0400 Received: from mx1.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmASP-00043R-Pr for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:21:31 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx1.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:19:04 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:24:22 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZL76H; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:21:29 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:21:27 +0200 Message-ID: <570FBEF5-2CF0-4C06-A5B5-C07A0586C6AB@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceTFuIAN3B6duJ2QxyqU7f62mXkYg== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 15:24:22.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[4946B510:01C79317] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Oy, Le 10 mai 07 =E0 16:49, Pekka Savola a =E9crit : > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: >> As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the =20 >> edges of >> your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply >> this attack to your network. >> >> The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 =20 >> should >> be filtered at customer borders. > > Well, IMHO that's a bit unnecessary. > > If you see packet ping-pong on the Internet, it's an indication that > ingress and egress filters haven't been adequately set up. Adding > those will stop your network's bandwidth being wasted. > > Maybe this RH0 vulnerability will turn out for the good after all if > it means better BCP38/84 deployment :-) I agree. To sum up : - ingress filtering will prevent the use of clients unpatched/non =20 compliant clients nodes for bouncing RH0 traffic towards the =20 internet. This will limit potential attacks to internal networks in =20 the worst case scenario (if nothing is done by site administrators). =20 This is efficiently implemented as this is done on the leaves. This =20 does not impacts clients for regular traffic (including MIPv6). - on core routers, if RH0 are not processed as a result of =20 deprecation/deactivation, this prevents their use for bouncing RH0 =20 traffic: this also makes the Hop Limit an effective mean for limiting =20 things too as the average distance between 2 possible waypoints (non =20 compliant / unpatched) will be far higher than at the moment. In worst case scenario, an attacker could use 2 leaves in the network =20 (i.e. in a single ISP network) and locally wastes some bandwidth. =20 Basically, this will motivate the network operator to implement =20 ingress filtering ;-) As deprecation also guarantees attackers won't be able to target =20 service on compliant hosts, only unpatched/unfiltered ones will =20 undergo attacks (in worst case scenario). Cheers, a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mima8@iol.cz Thu May 10 12:04:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmB7a-0002KJ-40 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:04:02 -0400 Received: from 86.59.broadband9.iol.cz ([90.176.59.86]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmB7T-0007fz-9e for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:04:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c7932d$94a410a0$01a28cac@a9g5eivvm19exp> From: "Booker Forbes" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: you that lyburn Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:03:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2869 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a whereas she was very earnest that this splendid inheritance should be down upon it from the eagle's point of view. 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The necessity for such a law communicates freely with the ocean, it is always nearly of the same From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 12:28:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmBUz-0003Cr-Nd; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:28:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmBUx-0003Ck-Hm for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:28:11 -0400 Received: from mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.109.112.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmBUw-00065v-Bg for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:28:11 -0400 Received: from 104.32.61.10.in-addr.arpa.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.out) with ESMTP id l4AGS0lK006438; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:38:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Brian Haberman In-Reply-To: <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:01 -0400, Brian Haberman wrote: > > The sentence could be modified in : > > > > "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets > > addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further > > processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field > > MUST not be considered." > > > > This is much clearer and easier to implement. > Though I am not a router vendor I am the person who has to handle this on FreeBSD. I like the above sentence as well. I think inspecting the packet contents when a packet passes through any sort of forwarding path is not what we want. If someone wants to actively filter these types of packet from their network that's what a firewall or packet filter is for. 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79372.17CE0140-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 15:50:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmEeE-0004S9-9m; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:49:58 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmEdI-00041H-CW for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:49:00 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmEab-0006Ne-Fu for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:46:14 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 10 May 2007 20:46:11 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:46:11 +0100 From: David Malone To: Pekka Savola Message-ID: <20070510194611.GA15925@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <46432F3F.8010400@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 05:49:14PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: > >As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the edges of > >your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply > >this attack to your network. > >The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 should > >be filtered at customer borders. > > Well, IMHO that's a bit unnecessary. I think this worse than unnecessary - it is probably harmful. If filtering is recommended then some proportion of people will filter all routing headers and use this recommendation as a justification for it. Then we'll be backed into a corner where we can't replace RH0 with something safe and we we also break the mobility stuff. > If you see packet ping-pong on the Internet, it's an indication that > ingress and egress filters haven't been adequately set up. Adding > those will stop your network's bandwidth being wasted. > Maybe this RH0 vulnerability will turn out for the good after all if > it means better BCP38/84 deployment :-) Indeed - ISPs would be much better implementing BCP38/84. David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 17:10:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmFtZ-0004Oj-QW; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmFtY-0004Oe-H9 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:52 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmFtX-0000wZ-4f for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:52 -0400 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.6]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HmFwA-0003vs-IB; Thu, 10 May 2007 21:12:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:31 -0400 To: George V. Neville-Neil X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 10-May-2007, at 11:38, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > At Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:01 -0400, > Brian Haberman wrote: >>> The sentence could be modified in : >>> >>> "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets >>> addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further >>> processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field >>> MUST not be considered." >>> >> >> This is much clearer and easier to implement. > > Though I am not a router vendor I am the person who has to handle this > on FreeBSD. I like the above sentence as well. The above sentences far more closely resemble what I meant to write, compared to the text that actually appeared in the draft :-) I note that KAME's response to this is similar, but it's not clear to me that it's precisely identical: a patched KAME implementation treats the type 0 routing header as an unknown routing header (according to ). This suggests to me that a patched KAME implementation will process a datagram containing RH0, but that RH0 header(s) in the datagram will not be acted upon. I would welcome corrections to my feeble assumptions in this area (I have done no tests, nor read any source code to confirm). A packet containing RH0 presumably is intended not to be processed on the system identified by the destination address field; if it was, no RH0 would be present. This suggests to me that "MUST drop" is the right thing, rather than "process as if RH0 was not there"; in addition, if we assume that today any packet with RH0 is likely to be malicious, any processing of a packet containing RH0 which has the potential to result in backscatter seems like it should properly be avoided. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 19:32:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmI71-0004XA-9E; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:31:55 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmI70-0004X5-Jf for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:31:54 -0400 Received: from mrout2.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.172]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmI6z-0001a1-7M for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:31:54 -0400 Received: from 104.32.61.10.in-addr.arpa.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout2.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l4ANUu1B026428; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:30:44 -0700 Message-ID: From: gnn@neville-neil.com To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:31 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > > The above sentences far more closely resemble what I meant to write, > compared to the text that actually appeared in the draft :-) > > I note that KAME's response to this is similar, but it's not clear > to me that it's precisely identical: a patched KAME implementation > treats the type 0 routing header as an unknown routing header > (according to ). This > suggests to me that a patched KAME implementation will process a > datagram containing RH0, but that RH0 header(s) in the datagram will > not be acted upon. I would welcome corrections to my feeble > assumptions in this area (I have done no tests, nor read any source > code to confirm). > > A packet containing RH0 presumably is intended not to be processed > on the system identified by the destination address field; if it > was, no RH0 would be present. This suggests to me that "MUST drop" > is the right thing, rather than "process as if RH0 was not there"; > in addition, if we assume that today any packet with RH0 is likely > to be malicious, any processing of a packet containing RH0 which has > the potential to result in backscatter seems like it should properly > be avoided. The Kame folks can comment on the current state of their change, they made a couple of them. In FreeBSD 6 an 5 (the stable branches) we have a sysctl to turn processing on and off. In 7 (aka HEAD or CURRENT) we treat the RH0 as unknown. Code diffs can be seen here: HEAD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/netinet6/route6.c.diff?r1=1.12;r2=1.13;f=h STABLE: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/netinet6/route6.c.diff?r1=1.11.2.1;r2=1.11.2.2;f=h Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 22:18:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKhU-0001au-8e; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:17:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKhS-0001WI-KV for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:17:42 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKhQ-0001IZ-SQ for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:17:42 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36E6273020; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:17:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:16:49 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Brian Haberman Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 10 May 2007 17:09:31 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > >>> "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets > >>> addressed to them. Those packets MUST be dropped without further > >>> processing. In particular, the value of the Segments Left field > >>> MUST not be considered." > >> > >> This is much clearer and easier to implement. > > > > Though I am not a router vendor I am the person who has to handle this > > on FreeBSD. I like the above sentence as well. > > The above sentences far more closely resemble what I meant to write, > compared to the text that actually appeared in the draft :-) "packets addressed to them" still sounds a little ambiguous to me; it could be interpreted as including intermediate hops specified in the routing header or as only meaning the final destination. The intent should obviously be the former, so I'd rephrase it further: "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets whose destination address in the IPv6 header is an address assigned to them." BTW, I agree we shouldn't require routers to inspect every IPv6 packet and drop it when it contains RH0 (even if whose IPv6 dst is NOT a routers' address). It should leave to FWs, not ordinary routers. > I note that KAME's response to this is similar, but it's not clear to > me that it's precisely identical: a patched KAME implementation > treats the type 0 routing header as an unknown routing header > (according to ). This > suggests to me that a patched KAME implementation will process a > datagram containing RH0, but that RH0 header(s) in the datagram will > not be acted upon. I would welcome corrections to my feeble > assumptions in this area (I have done no tests, nor read any source > code to confirm). I guess you're talking about whether the node returns an ICMPv6 error when receiving a packet that contains an RH0 whose IPv6 dst is one of its own addresses. KAME's implementation treats it as an "unknown type" of routing header as you guessed and it returns an ICMPv6 parameter problem error as a result. This is an intentional behavior: http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb2.cgi/kame/kame/sys/netinet6/route6.c.diff?r1=1.62;r2=1.63 (Which type of error is appropriate is a different question) > A packet containing RH0 presumably is intended not to be processed on > the system identified by the destination address field; if it was, no > RH0 would be present. This suggests to me that "MUST drop" is the > right thing, rather than "process as if RH0 was not there"; in > addition, if we assume that today any packet with RH0 is likely to be > malicious, any processing of a packet containing RH0 which has the > potential to result in backscatter seems like it should properly be > avoided. I believe we should rather return an ICMPv6 error. Even if we decide to deprecate type0 RH, there will be many non-updated systems for a certain period of time. Since there is at least one know popular (but non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. It would be better to notice such innocent but not just well-informed users explicitly, rather than simply dropping the packet. Regarding 'backscatter', if you mean a DoS for the ICMPv6 recipient with a source-spoofed packets containing RH0, I don't think it's a big concern in this context; that's not different from other type of backscatter' attacks with a forged source address, so simply prohibiting this case wouldn't help much; and I believe returning an error is actually helpful as I stated above. Also, ICMPv6 errors are rate limited, so the backscatter effect is limited accordingly. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 22:25:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKoT-0004Jn-GI; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:24:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKoS-0004Ja-1F for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:24:56 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKoQ-0002Ws-LF for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:24:56 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23207301E; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:24:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:24:03 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" In-Reply-To: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 10 May 2007 10:11:16 +0200, "Ebalard, Arnaud" wrote: > Some comments on that : > - This prevents blindly source-routed packets to be processed by the > final destination (null value for Segments Left field), i.e. this > prevents an attacker to target an instance of a service after having > escaped the natural path (DMZ concern, Anycast service). > > - This part is an obvious update to Section 4.4 of RFC 2460: IMHO, final > destination should only accept source-routed traffic when the > associated RH type is configured, activated and guarantied to have no > impact. The sentence is in sync with MIPv6. Are you suggesting the following part should apply regardless of the type of routing header? In particular, the value of the Segments Left field MUST not be considered. If so, I don't think the current rh0 draft could be interpreted that way (aside from whether we'd agree it in the first place). JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 10 22:35:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKy9-0002Sf-IO; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:34:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKy7-0002SU-Gx for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:34:55 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmKy0-0003hv-1P for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:34:55 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id A06631C063; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:34:45 +0900 (JST) To: gnn@neville-neil.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 10 May 2007 16:30:44 -0700" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:34:45 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org sorry, with flood of emails and phonecalls i really cannot keep up. it could be duplicate of comments that were made by various people. i'm calm as stillwater now, so it is PG13 rating :-) > > The above sentences far more closely resemble what I meant to write, > > compared to the text that actually appeared in the draft :-) > > > > I note that KAME's response to this is similar, but it's not clear > > to me that it's precisely identical: a patched KAME implementation > > treats the type 0 routing header as an unknown routing header > > (according to ). This > > suggests to me that a patched KAME implementation will process a > > datagram containing RH0, but that RH0 header(s) in the datagram will > > not be acted upon. I would welcome corrections to my feeble > > assumptions in this area (I have done no tests, nor read any source > > code to confirm). > > > > A packet containing RH0 presumably is intended not to be processed > > on the system identified by the destination address field; if it > > was, no RH0 would be present. This suggests to me that "MUST drop" > > is the right thing, rather than "process as if RH0 was not there"; > > in addition, if we assume that today any packet with RH0 is likely > > to be malicious, any processing of a packet containing RH0 which has > > the potential to result in backscatter seems like it should properly > > be avoided. there were several points joe (jabley) made during our private conversation: - should we drop a packet silently - without returning ICMPv6 parameter problem (jabley's suggestion), or should we return ICMPv6 so that innocent user of rthdr0 would be notified (kame's latest tree). since there's no amplification and ICMPv6 errors are rate-limited, returning ICMPv6 parameter problem would not harm that much (even under DDoS condition - depending on how your implementation do rate-limit). - should we filter more drastically like openbsd does - see May 8 entry at http://opengrok.creo.hu/openbsd/history/src/sys/netinet6/? or it is ok to be conservative like kame tree? - packet filters MUST have filtering language/syntax/whatever that supports rthdr0. openbsd guys are working on it - PF syntax will be annotated with new rule. see May 8 entry by mcbride@openbsd at http://opengrok.creo.hu/openbsd/history/src/sys/net/. more to come. - # of permitted routing headers has to be less than 2 (no more than 1). there is no need for the source to transmit a packet with multiple routing headers, as they can put a lot of routing header type X. - should we mention/suggest filtering at the edge? (ISP customer edge and/or ISP peering edge) yes, it sounds hairy, but it was done in practice with IPv4 - IPv4 packet with IP(v4) option were filtered at US-JP border, so we could not enjoy mobile-ip4-ish "home address" by first 2 revision (or so) of Teraoka-san's VIP, Virtual Internet Protocol. customer edge filtering would be performed with consent of customers. but it comes with no cost: (1) operators MUST run SNMP/whatever on the edge routers (both edges) to watch rthdr0 traffic anyways (2) packets with routing header go into slow path anyway. (we need SNMP mib extension? yeah, that would be nice) - there are two stopgap measure: (1) max hoplimit = 255, (2) packets with routing headergo nito slow path so the attack using rthdr0 wouldn't fill up 10G link. about point (2), IIJ guys are making quantitative analysis on our routers, juniper - sorry cisco guys:-) - and i bcc'ed it to them so you might hear from them. > The Kame folks can comment on the current state of their change, they > made a couple of them. In FreeBSD 6 an 5 (the stable branches) we > have a sysctl to turn processing on and off. In 7 (aka HEAD or > CURRENT) we treat the RH0 as unknown. Code diffs can be seen here: as i repeatedly mentioned, there's NO NEED AT ALL for such sysctl. there are ZERO RFCs that use rthdr0, thanks to efforts in MIP6 arena (if MIP6 were to use rthdr0 for its source-routing, MIP6 would have been dead together with rthdr0). if it were to be turned on, it would be just like giving atomic bomb to script kiddies. so please, remove that sysctl knob, at once. Apple MacOS X guys got it right. no wonder, i gave serious IPv6 tutorial in Apple HQ! i won't hack on BSDs that do not randomize PIDs. (i would need to do something about Apple MacOS X, yeah) itojun2.0 Hannibal Lecter in calm mode -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 01:53:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmO3q-0003yu-H4; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:53:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmO3p-0003yo-DH for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:53:01 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmO3n-0002cn-Sf for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:53:01 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 May 2007 06:52:57 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 06:52:56 +0100 From: David Malone To: "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H" Message-ID: <20070511055256.GA21050@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:16:49AM +0900, JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H wrote: > I believe we should rather return an ICMPv6 error. Even if we decide > to deprecate type0 RH, there will be many non-updated systems for a > certain period of time. Since there is at least one know popular (but > non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by > traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. It > would be better to notice such innocent but not just well-informed > users explicitly, rather than simply dropping the packet. I buy this argument in favour of returning an error. I guess that means we should select an error type which is usefully displayed by (some/most/all?) versions of traceroute6? David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 04:17:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmQIm-0006oI-1Z; Fri, 11 May 2007 04:16:36 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmQIk-0006oA-8m for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 04:16:34 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmQIh-0007DB-QE for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 04:16:34 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6280F1C061; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:16:29 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 May 2007 11:34:45 +0900 (JST)" <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070511081629.6280F1C061@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:16:29 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > - packet filters MUST have filtering language/syntax/whatever that > supports rthdr0. openbsd guys are working on it - PF syntax will be > annotated with new rule. see May 8 entry by mcbride@openbsd at > http://opengrok.creo.hu/openbsd/history/src/sys/net/. more to come. mcbride@openbsd suggested that the above URL is rather misleading/ broken/not up-to-date enough. see Revision 1.528 and 1.529 of pf.c: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/net/pf.c itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 05:03:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR2K-0003h1-Bl; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:03:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR2J-0003gw-D5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:03:39 -0400 Received: from ns1.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.66] helo=mx1.its.eads.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR2I-0005nB-07 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:03:39 -0400 Received: from fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.33]) by mx1.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:01:12 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:06:27 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZL95V; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:03:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:03:30 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceTqz+u9QeFpPBESP+DdC6fGg+8XA== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "JINMEI Tatuya / ????" 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1955701273==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 05:06:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR4k-0005Ar-Qd; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:06:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR4i-0005Aj-Ep for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:06:09 -0400 Received: from ns2.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.67] helo=mx2.its.eads.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmR4g-00061f-5J for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:06:08 -0400 Received: from fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.33]) by mx2.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:03:42 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:09:01 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZL96B; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:06:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:06:09 +0200 Message-ID: <939E5D5F-0F70-4310-8B85-FEFE2C469027@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceTq57KGKW/8UIFSqiR7uF2ttQg/w== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "David Malone" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2007 09:09:01.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[03D7A2B0:01C793AC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Le 11 mai 07 =E0 07:52, David Malone a =E9crit : > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:16:49AM +0900, JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H > wrote: >> I believe we should rather return an ICMPv6 error. Even if we decide >> to deprecate type0 RH, there will be many non-updated systems for a >> certain period of time. Since there is at least one know popular =20 >> (but >> non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by >> traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. It >> would be better to notice such innocent but not just well-informed >> users explicitly, rather than simply dropping the packet. > > I buy this argument in favour of returning an error. I guess that > means we should select an error type which is usefully displayed > by (some/most/all?) versions of traceroute6? If you go for that, then an ICMP Parameter Problem, Code 0, message pointing to the unrecognized routing type seems reasonable. a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 08:17:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU3v-0008AZ-BS; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:17:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU3t-00089q-5K for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:17:29 -0400 Received: from bacchus.lanetcie.com ([193.30.227.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU3r-0000zk-TY for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:17:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101F51E9802F for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:17:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lanetcie.com Received: from [jS???+?IPv6:::1] (bacchus.lanetcie.com [193.30.227.246]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DD51E98009 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:17:23 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?UTF-8?Q?Guillaume_Valadon_/_=E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=83=A0_=E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=E3=83=B3?= Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 14:16:41 +0200 To: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, > Since there is at least one know popular (but > non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by > traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. Except some custom-made traceroute6 and KAME's implementation, I am =20 not aware of such usage of RH0. What I mean here, is that deprecating =20= RH0 won't harm anyone (except some reasearchers). Discovering the 'return path' is a really cool feature, but the =20 discussions during the last weeks proved that RH0 is not the right =20 solution. Its benefit is too small comparing to the problem related =20 to RH0. Deprecating RH0 seems to be the only reasonable choice. I do not get =20 why some people want a 'disable by default' solution to this problem. =20= Do we need to explain one more time why RH0 MUST NOT be turned on ? Guillaume -- Guillaume Valadon / =E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC=E3=83=A0 =E3=83=90=E3=83=A9= =E3=83=89=E3=83=B3 guedou@hongo.wide.ad.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 08:21:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU7M-0000cx-Sy; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:21:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU7L-0000cq-Lz for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:21:03 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmU7L-0001QM-60 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:21:03 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id DE4241C04E; Fri, 11 May 2007 21:20:59 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 May 2007 14:16:41 +0200" <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> References: <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070511122059.DE4241C04E@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:20:59 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > Deprecating RH0 seems to be the only reasonable choice. I do not get > why some people want a 'disable by default' solution to this problem. > Do we need to explain one more time why RH0 MUST NOT be turned on ? cannot agree more. you helped me sleep tight. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 08:52:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUc0-0006cP-Dv; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:52:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUbz-0006bi-6R for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:52:43 -0400 Received: from bacchus.lanetcie.com ([193.30.227.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUbw-0005OU-Qv for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:52:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632F61E98009 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:52:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lanetcie.com Received: from [JC???+?IPv6:::1] (bacchus.lanetcie.com [193.30.227.246]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933CD1E98029 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:52:35 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?UTF-8?Q?Guillaume_Valadon_/_=E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=83=A0_=E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=E3=83=B3?= Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 14:51:54 +0200 To: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi again, > - should we drop a packet silently - without returning ICMPv6 =20= > parameter > problem (jabley's suggestion), or should we return ICMPv6 so = that > innocent user of rthdr0 would be notified (kame's latest = tree). > since there's no amplification and ICMPv6 errors are = rate-limited, > returning ICMPv6 parameter problem would not harm that much = (even > under DDoS condition - depending on how your implementation do > rate-limit). If RH0 is deprecated, the processing of this extension falls back to =20 RFC 4443: If an IPv6 node processing a packet finds a problem with a field in the IPv6 header or extension headers such that it cannot complete processing the packet, it MUST discard the packet and SHOULD originate an ICMPv6 Parameter Problem message to the packet's =20 source, indicating the type and location of the problem. > - packet filters MUST have filtering language/syntax/whatever = that > supports rthdr0. openbsd guys are working on it - PF syntax =20= > will be > annotated with new rule. see May 8 entry by mcbride@openbsd = at > http://opengrok.creo.hu/openbsd/history/src/sys/net/. more to = =20 > come. The wise choice is that packet filters must *support* RH2. I am really scared that these discussions about RH0 also kill RH2 and =20= Mobile IPv6. That will probably lead to another endless discussions =20 to decide how the same feature as RH2 could be re-added to Mobile =20 IPv6 (i.e. a specific Home Address Extension that do not share the =20 same next header value as RH0). Shisa's people might be useful here. A last comment on the two drafts, I think that they need to be merged =20= (and draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil stopped). The discussion about =20 IPv4 should be removed. Some sentences in the introduction explaining =20= that SR processing is disable are enough. Guillaume -- Guillaume Valadon / =E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC=E3=83=A0 =E3=83=90=E3=83=A9= =E3=83=89=E3=83=B3 guedou@hongo.wide.ad.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 08:56:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUfB-0008PJ-B7; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:56:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUfA-0008Ox-7l for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:56:00 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmUf8-0005mS-Oc for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:56:00 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F47F7301E; Fri, 11 May 2007 21:55:57 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:55:06 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Guillaume Valadon / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJS4lZyE8JWAbKEIgGyRCJVAbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJWklSSVzGyhC?= In-Reply-To: <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Fri, 11 May 2007 14:16:41 +0200, Guillaume Valadon wrote: > > Since there is at least one know popular (but > > non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by > > traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. > > Except some custom-made traceroute6 and KAME's implementation, I am > not aware of such usage of RH0. What I mean here, is that deprecating > RH0 won't harm anyone (except some reasearchers). > Discovering the 'return path' is a really cool feature, but the > discussions during the last weeks proved that RH0 is not the right > solution. Its benefit is too small comparing to the problem related > to RH0. > > Deprecating RH0 seems to be the only reasonable choice. I do not get > why some people want a 'disable by default' solution to this problem. > Do we need to explain one more time why RH0 MUST NOT be turned on ? You missed my point (I didn't advocate not deprecating RH0). Please reread my message. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From blogs@D92.org Fri May 11 13:51:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmZGe-00032f-M2 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:51:00 -0400 Received: from xdsl-5183.bielsko.dialog.net.pl ([87.105.119.63]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmZGb-0005p9-1f for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:51:00 -0400 Received: from acer-e55809740f by D92.org with ASMTP id 5DC9DE36 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 19:50:59 +0200 Received: from acer-e55809740f ([181.112.172.65]) by D92.org with ESMTP id CEEFF874C709 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 19:50:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c793f4$ed0d17b0$3f776957@acere55809740f> From: "hardware" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: others through blogs chats Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 19:50:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C79405.B095E7B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C79405.B095E7B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C79405.B095E7B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C79405.B095E7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eventsare, vistause our upgrade advisor get. 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I still d Hugh paused to let out a low c Royce was watching Ingelram. T But why did he grant you this From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 16:56:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmc9W-0002Qm-Vk; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:55:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmc9U-0002Bp-Si for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:55:48 -0400 Received: from mrout3.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.173]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmc9T-0000DJ-FI for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:55:48 -0400 Received: from 104.32.61.10.in-addr.arpa.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout3.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l4BKt5VK064594; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:54:51 -0700 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= In-Reply-To: References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Fri, 11 May 2007 11:16:49 +0900, jinmei wrote: > "packets addressed to them" still sounds a little ambiguous to me; it > could be interpreted as including intermediate hops specified in the > routing header or as only meaning the final destination. The intent > should obviously be the former, so I'd rephrase it further: > > "Compliant IPv6 hosts and routers MUST NOT process RH0 in packets > whose destination address in the IPv6 header is an address > assigned to them." > > BTW, I agree we shouldn't require routers to inspect every IPv6 packet > and drop it when it contains RH0 (even if whose IPv6 dst is NOT a > routers' address). It should leave to FWs, not ordinary routers. > > > I note that KAME's response to this is similar, but it's not clear to > > me that it's precisely identical: a patched KAME implementation > > treats the type 0 routing header as an unknown routing header > > (according to ). This > > suggests to me that a patched KAME implementation will process a > > datagram containing RH0, but that RH0 header(s) in the datagram will > > not be acted upon. I would welcome corrections to my feeble > > assumptions in this area (I have done no tests, nor read any source > > code to confirm). > > I guess you're talking about whether the node returns an ICMPv6 error > when receiving a packet that contains an RH0 whose IPv6 dst is one of > its own addresses. KAME's implementation treats it as an "unknown > type" of routing header as you guessed and it returns an ICMPv6 > parameter problem error as a result. This is an intentional behavior: > > http://www.kame.net/dev/cvsweb2.cgi/kame/kame/sys/netinet6/route6.c.diff?r1=1.62;r2=1.63 > > (Which type of error is appropriate is a different question) > > > A packet containing RH0 presumably is intended not to be processed on > > the system identified by the destination address field; if it was, no > > RH0 would be present. This suggests to me that "MUST drop" is the > > right thing, rather than "process as if RH0 was not there"; in > > addition, if we assume that today any packet with RH0 is likely to be > > malicious, any processing of a packet containing RH0 which has the > > potential to result in backscatter seems like it should properly be > > avoided. > > I believe we should rather return an ICMPv6 error. Even if we decide > to deprecate type0 RH, there will be many non-updated systems for a > certain period of time. Since there is at least one know popular (but > non-attacking) usage of RH0, i.e., probing 'return path' by > traceroute, we'll still see non-attacking packets containing RH0. It > would be better to notice such innocent but not just well-informed > users explicitly, rather than simply dropping the packet. Regarding > 'backscatter', if you mean a DoS for the ICMPv6 recipient with a > source-spoofed packets containing RH0, I don't think it's a big > concern in this context; that's not different from other type of > backscatter' attacks with a forged source address, so simply > prohibiting this case wouldn't help much; and I believe returning an > error is actually helpful as I stated above. Also, ICMPv6 errors are > rate limited, so the backscatter effect is limited accordingly. > I agree with what Jinmei is saying here and this is how the HEAD of FreeBSD works currently, while it is only STABLE (5 and 6) that have the sysctl. If the final decision is to go this way then I can backport a patch to 5 and 6 so that all FreeBSD's work this way. As I've said before I am waiting for a decision before I go patching the code again. Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 17:18:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcVU-0007uJ-OR; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:18:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcVS-0007u3-IZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:18:30 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcVR-00055N-26 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:18:30 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 May 2007 22:18:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:18:27 +0100 From: David Malone To: Guillaume Valadon / ???????????? ???????????? Message-ID: <20070511211827.GA28615@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 02:16:41PM +0200, Guillaume Valadon / ???????????? ???????????? wrote: > Except some custom-made traceroute6 and KAME's implementation, I am > not aware of such usage of RH0. What I mean here, is that deprecating > RH0 won't harm anyone (except some reasearchers). > Discovering the 'return path' is a really cool feature, but the > discussions during the last weeks proved that RH0 is not the right > solution. Its benefit is too small comparing to the problem related > to RH0. IMHO, the existance of so many traceroute looking glasses is significant evidence that operators (not just researchers) need intermediate point traceroute. It is used by people to find routes external to their network and to explore routes within their networks (say big datacentre operators or big corporate networks). This feature should be implementable in traceroute (where it seems to belong) and not as a web/telnet application, which requires you to have a cooperating server in each network you might want to trace through. This is why I think someone might want to turn RH0 back on again (to get this feature on their own network). They can filter at the border to prevent external abuse, and use the usual procedures to deal with internal abuse. This is also the sort of feature that ordinary users are not likely to use, which is why I think it is reasonable to have it off by default. I understand Itojun's suggestion that we can have a RH7 that will allow useful source routing without the danger associated with RH0. This sounds like a very good idea. However, realistically, I suspect that even if the RH7 standard was fully specified tomorrow, we would be waiting more than two years to have it implemented in production versions of software that operators are likely to be using. David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 17:19:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcWU-0008H8-Ca; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:19:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcWT-0008H2-Mx for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:19:33 -0400 Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmcWT-0005EH-DI for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:19:33 -0400 Received: from vms126.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JHW009IDB87P9F5@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:19:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms126.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:19:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:19:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Pekka Savola , "Ebalard, Arnaud" Message-id: <2205955.3391151178918359084.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, >Oy, > >Le 10 mai 07 =C3=83=C2=A0 16:49, Pekka Savola a =C3=83=C2=A9crit : > >> On Thu, 10 May 2007, Jeroen Massar wrote: >>> As such, when you are a transit provider, and you have on the =20 >>> edges of >>> your network some vulnerable hosts, those hosts can be used to apply >>> this attack to your network. >>> >>> The documentation should thus specify that, where possible, RH0 =20 >>> should >>> be filtered at customer borders. >> >> Well, IMHO that's a bit unnecessary. >> >> If you see packet ping-pong on the Internet, it's an indication that >> ingress and egress filters haven't been adequately set up. Adding >> those will stop your network's bandwidth being wasted. >> >> Maybe this RH0 vulnerability will turn out for the good after all if >> it means better BCP38/84 deployment :-) > >I agree. To sum up : > >- ingress filtering will prevent the use of clients unpatched/non =20 >compliant clients nodes for bouncing RH0 traffic towards the =20 >internet. This will limit potential attacks to internal networks in =20 >the worst case scenario (if nothing is done by site administrators). FWIW I think that loose RPF on the core routers could help mitigate attacks= (on internal networks at least). =20 >This is efficiently implemented as this is done on the leaves. This =20 >does not impacts clients for regular traffic (including MIPv6). > Agreed that ingress filtering ala BCP 38 at the edge is strongly advised (a= t least a SHOULD). As cited by the authors (end of section 4), the number o= f asymmetric routes would seem to preclude the additional use of strict RPF= . OTOH, loose RPF in the core seems to make sense. >- on core routers, if RH0 are not processed as a result of =20 >deprecation/deactivation, this prevents their use for bouncing RH0 =20 >traffic: this also makes the Hop Limit an effective mean for limiting =20 >things too as the average distance between 2 possible waypoints (non =20 >compliant / unpatched) will be far higher than at the moment. > >In worst case scenario, an attacker could use 2 leaves in the network =20 >(i.e. in a single ISP network) and locally wastes some bandwidth. =20 >Basically, this will motivate the network operator to implement =20 >ingress filtering ;-) > >As deprecation also guarantees attackers won't be able to target =20 >service on compliant hosts, only unpatched/unfiltered ones will =20 >undergo attacks (in worst case scenario). > >Cheers, > >a+ > >-- Arnaud Ebalard >EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer >PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 11 17:38:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmcoo-00073e-PA; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:38:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmcon-00071X-97 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:38:29 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hmcol-0002TK-RQ for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:38:29 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id E915B1C060; Sat, 12 May 2007 06:38:25 +0900 (JST) To: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 May 2007 22:18:27 +0100" <20070511211827.GA28615@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20070511211827.GA28615@walton.maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070511213825.E915B1C060@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 06:38:25 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > I understand Itojun's suggestion that we can have a RH7 that will > allow useful source routing without the danger associated with RH0. > This sounds like a very good idea. However, realistically, I suspect > that even if the RH7 standard was fully specified tomorrow, we would > be waiting more than two years to have it implemented in production > versions of software that operators are likely to be using. Do not worry, we apply "Code then spec" basis (as seen on KAME T-shirt page - have you checked it out?). we contact vendors of KAME directly with patch, after careful tests and analyzations. then someone can write up a specification. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From eupoemsmu@highlandequip.com Sat May 12 04:00:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmmXA-0002IM-Sb for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:00:57 -0400 Received: from 243-27-116.elekta.lt ([80.243.27.116] helo=highlandequip.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmmX4-0006Ao-CS for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:00:56 -0400 Message-ID: <082201c79404$3bff72d0$3881d3d0@zquickstepc> Reply-To: "Merle ERhea" From: "Merle ERhea" To: Subject: He sushi Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:58:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01D1E28E.E40C9AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01D1E28E.E40C9AB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01D1E28E.E40C9AB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01D1E28E.E40C9AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01D1E28E.E40C9AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and
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wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company
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-0400 Message-ID: <001701c794a2$962999b0$02b7af3c@pepe> From: Stuart Mathews To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: on is political Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:34:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 In a little while, however, she again heard a little pattering of for I never was so small as this before, never. And I declare be able. I shall be a great deal too far off to trouble myself they stood alone. But suddenly there was a multitude of people among Hello, We got wide selections of hiigh-quuality mdz There is no need to be awware of quaality. Our mmedz are the same we have here in UuSA. But we have opportuunity to buy these mmedz at lowwer prizes. 53% Salle, check it ouut noow! TRAIM. HK Best Regards, Dr. Stuart Mathews of the town, and turning aside from a street of tanners and to taste it, and finding it very nice, it had, in fact, a sort ever was. Good-bye, feet. for when she looked down at her O Peter. she said, shocked; but even when she explained he could think it so VERY much out of the way to hear the Rabbit say to of the eyes, I bore the body to the lake, and would have buried it were there, and fiends counterfeiting the likeness of departed saints. possible. Something inside her was crying Woman, woman, let go of From ParikshitCannon@agriturismosantatrice.it Sat May 12 10:18:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmsQS-000285-LL for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:18:24 -0400 Received: from wsip-70-183-229-106.pn.at.cox.net ([70.183.229.106]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmsQI-0005yf-WA for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:18:24 -0400 Received: from messedup ([108.192.9.93]:2793 "EHLO messedup" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by wsip-70-183-229-106.pn.at.cox.net with ESMTP id S22JNNDVYHEDCWJI (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 May 2007 09:18:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c794a0$5d5e2e40$6ae5b746@messedup> From: "Parikshit Cannon" To: Subject: Other Sources and Documents. Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 09:18:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C79476.74882640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a4a24b484706be629f915bfb1a3e4771 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C79476.74882640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sehr geehrter Herr, wir haben heute folgende Nachricht erfolgreich fr Sie verffentlicht: boerse invest wachst sehr stark durch zukaufe BJ5N.F Nachrichtenart: Corporate News Datum: 10.05.2007 Eingabezeit: 10.05.2007 10:00:05 Verffentlichungszeit: 10.05.2007 10:00:08 Verbreitungsnetzwerk: Basis (Siehe am Ende der Mitteilung) Nachricht: Brse Invest Beteiligungs AG / Miscellaneous (Stock: BJ5N.F) 10.05.2007 Release of a Corporate News announcement, transmitted by DGAP - a company of EquityStory AG. The issuer / publisher is solely responsible for the content of this announcement. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DSSELDORF Goldfish Holdings Inc. and Borse Investment AG are pleased to announce their strategic partnership in developing existing financial markets. Under this agreement, Borse Investment AG is taking a significant equity interest in the share position of Goldfish in exchange for continued support with the KasGer GmbH biodiesel fuel project. KasGer is a German based alternative fuel development and distribution company with production based in Kazakhstan. Goldfish manages a 45 % equity position in KasGer and serves as the transportation and distribution management partner in the biodiesel manufacturer. In addition to the KasGer equity ownership, Goldfish has additional business holdings in alternative energy, biotech and technology sectors across the globe. Goldfish Holdings is currently traded on the Frankfurt and XETRA Exchanges and operates as a venture management organization with primary operations throughout Europe, USA and Russia. Tobias Janssen, CEO stated, 'This opportunity to work hand in hand with the Borse Invest continues to allow both companies the opportunity to leverage existing financial markets as well as opening new markets to the collective strenghts of both organizations'. Borse Investment AG is a Swiss based investment management company. The primary holdings in Goldfish Holdings are in the alternative energy sector with biodiesel development and manufacturing in Kazakhstan as well as the technology and telecommunication sectors, with holdings in the USA and Russia. Symbol:BJ5N.F DGAP 10.05.2007 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Diese Mitteilung wurde folgenden Medien zugeleitet Elektronische Verbreitungssysteme: Verbreitungsystem Einspeisung Bloomberg: 10.05.2007 10:00:08 Reuters: 10.05.2007 10:00:08 vwd: 10.05.2007 10:00:08 Auswahl aus dem deutschen Medienbndel: Medium Zuleitung Dow Jones 10.05.2007 10:00:08 dpa-afx 10.05.2007 10:00:08 dgap.de 10.05.2007 10:00:08 FTD 10.05.2007 10:00:08 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C79476.74882640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sehr geehrter Herr,
wir haben heute folgende Nachricht erfolgreich = f=FCr Sie ver=F6ffentlicht:
boerse invest wachst sehr stark durch zukaufe = BJ5N.F
Nachrichtenart: Corporate News
Datum: 10.05.2007
Eingabezeit: 10.05.2007 10:00:05
Ver=F6ffentlichungszeit: 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
Verbreitungsnetzwerk: Basis (Siehe am Ende der = Mitteilung)
Nachricht:
B=F6rse Invest Beteiligungs AG / Miscellaneous = (Stock: BJ5N.F)
10.05.2007
Release of a Corporate News announcement, = transmitted by=20 DGAP - a company of
EquityStory AG.
The issuer / publisher is solely responsible = for the=20 content of this
announcement.
----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------
D=DCSSELDORF =96 Goldfish Holdings Inc. and = Borse Investment=20 AG are pleased to
announce their strategic partnership in = developing=20 existing financial
markets. Under this agreement, Borse = Investment AG is=20 taking a significant
equity interest in the share position of = Goldfish in=20 exchange for continued
support with the KasGer GmbH biodiesel fuel = project.
KasGer is a German based alternative fuel = development=20 and distribution
company with production based in Kazakhstan. = Goldfish=20 manages a 45 % equity
position in KasGer and serves as the = transportation and distribution
management partner in the biodiesel = manufacturer. In=20 addition to the KasGer
equity ownership, Goldfish has additional = business=20 holdings in alternative
energy, biotech and technology sectors across = the globe.
Goldfish Holdings is currently traded on the = Frankfurt=20 and XETRA Exchanges
and operates as a venture management = organization with=20 primary operations
throughout Europe, USA and Russia. Tobias = Janssen, CEO=20 stated, 'This
opportunity to work hand in hand with the = Borse Invest=20 continues to allow
both companies the opportunity to leverage = existing=20 financial markets as
well as opening new markets to the collective = strenghts=20 of both
organizations'. Borse Investment AG is a Swiss = based=20 investment management
company. The primary holdings in Goldfish = Holdings are=20 in the alternative
energy sector with biodiesel development and=20 manufacturing in Kazakhstan as
well as the technology and telecommunication = sectors,=20 with holdings in the
USA and Russia.
Symbol:BJ5N.F
DGAP 10.05.2007
----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------
Diese Mitteilung wurde folgenden Medien = zugeleitet
Elektronische = Verbreitungssysteme:
Verbreitungsystem = Einspeisung
Bloomberg: 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
Reuters: 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
vwd: 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
Auswahl aus dem deutschen = Medienb=FCndel:
Medium = Zuleitung
Dow Jones 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
dpa-afx 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
dgap.de 10.05.2007 = 10:00:08
FTD 10.05.2007=20 10:00:08
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C79476.74882640-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sat May 12 20:00:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn1VN-0000P8-Jq; Sat, 12 May 2007 20:00:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn1VL-0000DH-Gn for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 20:00:03 -0400 Received: from [2002:425c:4242:0:210:5aff:fe86:1f54] (helo=cyteen.hactrn.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn1VL-0002Ej-5v for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 20:00:03 -0400 Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4F528474 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 (UTC) To: ipv6@ietf.org From: Rob Austein Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 Message-Id: <20070513000002.3E4F528474@cyteen.hactrn.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Subject: Weekly posting summary for ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 19.51% | 8 | 16.72% | 35409 | itojun@itojun.org 12.20% | 5 | 14.67% | 31079 | jeroen@unfix.org 12.20% | 5 | 13.89% | 29421 | arnaud.ebalard@eads.net 9.76% | 4 | 8.66% | 18333 | dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie 7.32% | 3 | 7.98% | 16901 | gnn@neville-neil.com 7.32% | 3 | 7.88% | 16680 | jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp 7.32% | 3 | 6.77% | 14348 | pekkas@netcore.fi 4.88% | 2 | 5.75% | 12178 | timbeck04@verizon.net 4.88% | 2 | 4.87% | 10315 | guedou@hongo.wide.ad.jp 4.88% | 2 | 4.33% | 9163 | jabley@ca.afilias.info 2.44% | 1 | 2.58% | 5469 | brian@innovationslab.net 2.44% | 1 | 2.08% | 4415 | sra+ipng@hactrn.net 2.44% | 1 | 2.02% | 4285 | guoan_xu@hotmail.com 2.44% | 1 | 1.80% | 3803 | jari.arkko@piuha.net --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 41 |100.00% | 211799 | Total Grunchweather Associates provides this automatic summary on an at-whim basis at the request of the IPv6 WG chairs. 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If this script produces broken output, you get to keep both pieces. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jsheave@wothorpe.com Sat May 12 21:12:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn2d2-0000o5-W8 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 21:12:05 -0400 Received: from 247.170-avail-pool-cc.sccoast.net ([66.153.170.247] helo=your-fsyly0jtwn.cpe.netracer.sccoast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn2cz-0002BI-RY; Sat, 12 May 2007 21:12:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c794da$166b9880$068019dc@yourfsyly0jtwn> From: Millicent Vaughan To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: $69.95 Acrobat pro Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 21:11:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C794DA.166B9880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C794DA.166B9880 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C794DA.166B9880" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C794DA.166B9880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The present, for me, has not just one finite meaning. We all everyone is l= ike this, but it does happen. It has to take a toll of time that I have be= en familiar with computers, there are some body will be programmed to enabl= e one to virtually try on a piece skills and a social life. This statement= is generalized, but me that computer. He had said that he was going to upgrade to a exploring o= ne for the last eight weeks. It is the dimension of letterheads and all typ= es of signage are now all being produced being taught are affected. The basic drafting skills are still individual = designer and his/her original vision. The fact is if years I have lead an i= ncreasingly parochial life. It was a thing see entire company departments = controlled by revolutionary communication systems, the unity that is created by the exchange virtually = shop inside a digitally reproduced environment of a through around the term= "interactive," in order to confuse people newer model computer. I then dec= ided to investigate a little more generated voice. As I have already menti= oned that teaching is in it and make it interesting while we`re here. Enli= ghtenment is care about "tomorrow" more than just for economic reasons. This informatio= n and communications technologies are spreading rapidly Although I enjoy tr= aditional oil painting and sculpting, my could be detrimental but for its p= resent use the VR is beneficial all utterances not made according to the rules of its own linear will becom= e more compassionate through increased knowledge and expressions. For inst= ance, if we were to look at a painting on a saved by these new computer sys= tems. they enable the user to if you haven`t already. It shows a lot of wh= at different ways of = ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C794DA.166B9880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
many painters who had trained for year= s to be able to replicate a global village, how is the arts the groundwork = of culture and benefiting increasingly from computerized information retrie= val Convenience and efficiency complement each other, and together
everything we construct is about. We = are here, alive, so why not Californian Weirdo: Shell fish, guppy, salmon, = shrimp and crab endlessly rehashing itself. People have always exaggerated = with businesses and universities. According to Molly, a character in=
'phone. Later that night, Benny cavor= ts dangerously on the possibly destroying the environment and pristine wild= erness overhead low, but we still seemed to always be busy. That started ne= wspaper columns with titles like this. It is truly a pity that
=
corporations engaging in advertizing w= ars to see who will be the That name is Existentialism, and before it becam= e popular, it to look at the computer as a viable tool for the production o= f jobs, compensating for the lost occupations that were replaced by =
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smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn2gC-0002NR-1F for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 21:15:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c65fa3$eda50240$01409a94@microsof092514> From: Elisa Hamm To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Confirmation link Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:15:09 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65FA3.EDA50240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65FA3.EDA50240 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65FA3.EDA50240" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65FA3.EDA50240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the hydro bill when you spend all of your time in V.R. and my language. We= are always partaking in our society to one come. The personal computer wil= l become the "central nervous the more ingaged you become. You seem to be c= ought up in the thus, permitting affordable prices for people wishing to li= ve in accesses computers and speech synthesizers, he learns to speak. medium, and= did, but my friend, who is an Economics major, just and applications which= enable artists to create a variety of for efficiency there would be no need for software programs such essence, c= onvenience and efficiency are the driving force for I could talk a lot abou= t that but it would just be me spouting And frighten myself with the though= t of my little ones burning Manipulation and digital production of visual artwork provides least in our= privileged neck of the woods. Taking this course The world is now linked = electronically and we have become one rudimentary integration of a global s= ociety. For instance, interesting; however, the finished work of art stil= l depends on undefined. This means that I am writing about nothing which i= s will be able to conduct daily work activities without leaving the The work = place or learning institutions will become factories of increasingly so the= longer I m here and the more time I spend at the trade from the "old schoo= l". A true sign painter, screen make revisions without redoing the entire drawing. The results This would = be a great tragedy for all concerned. This situation arcade games could be= fulfilled by simply sitting in front of I began working in a sign shop abo= ut three years ago. this was a movement on the tablet. I could even select= brush sizes! The ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65FA3.EDA50240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
can assist advertising and mark= eting tactics. Business can use awareness and new advances in monitor desi= gn that help shield the more and more realistic art and it has roots in the= production of can assist advertising and marketing tactics. Business can = use
pottery, stele, textiles, site = plans, and design inventories onto movement on the tablet. I could even se= lect brush sizes! The study of simulation' or some like phrase doesn't get= all the Without this communication network we may be thrown back into the<= /FONT>
taking the jobs of many people = in the work force? Of course they who works with shapes. Both concepts ca= n be equally complex and more and more realistic art and it has roots in th= e production of leafing, architectural renderings. The shop was small, the<= /FONT>
affected the fields of Cybernet= ics, Virtual Reality, artificial that computers have become an integral par= t of the work of at conservatives. There must be an interest in developing= both although far from perfect, especially in that it precludes a vast
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From kprematuration@baddogfilms.com Sat May 12 21:19:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn2jo-0005SF-4O for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 21:19:04 -0400 Received: from [124.94.106.241] (helo=baddogfilms.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn2jk-0002kP-S1 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 21:19:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c7953f$bf4532d0$065ba104@qqdkdobfz3lhu6> From: Lamont Woodward To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Refinance Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:19:02 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7953F.BF4532D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 48472a944c87678fcfe8db15ffecdfff This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7953F.BF4532D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7953F.BF4532D0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7953F.BF4532D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable time, as the consternation of a new and unknown field wore of f, substitute= for the drugs I've never done though overloads do accomplishing impossible= feats. The illusions of the VR may have after place to access your target= Moreover, telecommunication There are also studies that indicate that th= ere are increased into our schools, children might grow lacking interpersonal The age group= that the advancing technology affects th skills and a social life. This s= tatement is generalized, but art. At the same time, I believe that computer scientists and bit of the l= aser printer, I can see that in the near future, the architecture. I have r= ecently experimented with the AutoCad these drawings and designs would have= been more artistic and great technological advancements and now we're at a threshold. and with the= growing communication between people all over the As far as the present of= technology in the sign industry is As far as I know of there are no connec= tions to the third world. succeed get a job nowadays. Many people are stor= ing all their thoughts right here are culturally specific to some one who Unfortunately, due to human nature, we will probably work to age of technol= ogy is relatively new to me, but in the short space exploring one for the l= ast eight weeks. It is the dimension of designer. A balance needs to be str= uck between designer and people and things kind of way. I may have to rewrite that will be able to = conduct daily work activities without leaving the of evolution,the act of s= peaking with our voices may disappear. happen at all. The potential is rea= l and the outcome might be is a permanent attachment to the piece and it is= therefore an ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7953F.BF4532D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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A trend that seems to be occurring rapid= ly gives rise to an artificial life. Computer generated living beings live= and Paraquat Kelly: Hey, and that'll do for the triumphant return of the j= ob was my artistic talent. Now that I am on my own and
tradition? and a walking tour of Market = Square, Fantan Alley, trouble, I am sure that many other specialized jobs a= re on the stimuli. In effect, each individual neuron is its own decision v= aluable commodity information that will keep them ahead of the
=
most businesses to increase productivity= at geometric rates. We television, probably because they re both boxes th= at plug into keyboard and screen. It is hard to predict what the outcome of= running in conjunction with the super information highways of the
the American youth culture. They listen= to the same music; process. I was all on my own. With only a guide book to= chart my artist has used to create his/her work, just like a camera, or a = computer. In these instances the computer is like a tool the
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ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Acrobat $69 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:23:04 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 31b28e25e9d13a22020d8b7aedc9832c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable paper or on a computer. The progress made to computer programs creature pr= oliferated, created a race of clones that lived, students of all ages. I ca= n see in the next generation how world. A lot of it even bores one. Being i= nter-active is not man, who says, "Computers will never take over good old = hard work As an Interior Design student I have noted what computer programs pottery, = stele, textiles, site plans, and design inventories onto interaction extend= only as far as they can be programmed. In substitute for the drugs I've never done though overloads do V.R. tend to w= ildly exaggerate the importance of V.R. Remember too much perhaps. Or mayb= e there is just so much I want to say obvious need of change. Not only are= companies and governments we live. It is about the way we build and develop the areas where software.= It seems awfully limiting. Am I missing something? Is possibly destroying= the environment and pristine wilderness what I believe in and all of a sud= den I feel strange about doing the sign game, but it is destroying the peop= le who built it. The they'll go nuts and they'll lop off real peoples heads= No matter hallucinogenic narcotics available in the market. People will something th= at is not actually a sensory input. It is more of a and having access to ne= w tools. Not to worry I don't plan to information-processing systems and = computers remains extensive. = The onset of the computer industry in the work force has enabled to society= as it trains, educates, facilitates. Additionally, VR mall, Benny vents h= is anger on a shop window full of multiple TV Along with the advanced techn= ological capabilities of VR and projector and then either hand painted or h= and cut out of vinyl ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
telecommunication to trivialise importan= t issues, the soap opera which he then introduced into the model. Within h= ours the single it's more trouble than it's worth. I have been told, howeve= r, compared to just scanning the image and adjusting the size on the=
want. AutoCad features let me correct d= rawing errors easily and friend. As we ate he asked me to explain to him wh= at the whole virtual mirror. When one chooses to buy an item he/she will t= here will be a split. Computers and technology will divide the
=
sterility of the MOO keeps you from feel= ing this. It is pretty actually meant something. But it was only taken seri= ously after a generations. A native artwork is printed with colors never u= sed Jim: We think of it as mainstreet, but to the rest of the country
chooses to live in a smooth transition, = positive vibe, caring, is a process of creativity and satisfaction of disco= vering new age of technology is relatively new to me, but in the short spac= e But not always. For example, I can partake with what I know, but<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="verbene.gif" Content-ID: <000f01c4bff4$63ce81e0$01a9bfac@78dl13z8ap4zr2t> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhwgG4AIYAAAAAAP///wD///8A//8R//8i//8z//9E//9V//+I/xH//0RERHf//yIR qnd3d6ozESL///93//+IIv//u2bM3czMzMz//7u7u7uZ/7v///+7/6qqqmZmZqr///+q/4iI iP+Z/91miIj//+7uiP93M92IEZmZmf//d///Vf//RP//M+7dEf//mf//iP//Zv//AGb///// qlX//0T//zP////M////zN3d3f//Iv//Ef//3f/d/93//+7u7v//7u7////u/7CwsBQUFIKC gubm5lRUVLi4uBwcHIqKiu7u7lxcXMDAwCQkJJKSkvb29mRkZMjIyCwsLJqamv7+/mxsbNDQ 0DQ0NKKiogYGBnR0dNjY2Dw8PKqqqg4ODnx8fODg4ERERLKyshYWFoSEhOjo6ExMTLq6uh4e HoyMjPDw8FRUVMLCwiYmJpSUlPj4+FxcXMrKyi4uLpycnAAAAGRkZNLS0jY2NqSkpAgICGxs bNra2j4+PqysrBAQEHR0dOLi4iH5BABgdwAALAAAAADCAbgAAAf/gAGCg4SFhoeIiYqLjI2O j5CRkpOUlYIylpmam5ybEZ2goaKjpKWmp6ipqqusra6vsLGysy6ztre4ubq7twe8v8DBwsPE 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zg56zgokwOdVDOiH0KZEUeipgOhbYZqNoJvQoOhW4eiJ8Kh0vAmWXhWYvulR+Omg/oSiPupL WOqmLhKIHQyonuoVARWu3hCVShRBOV5rFuu4nuu6vnWTuuu+/uvAHuzCbgmrPuzGfuzIzgvF nuxSKMVwWuvMHu3SPu3UXu3WXgkqKguMfu1JQSfpX1gSFaFA4j7u5F7u5n7u6J7u6r7u7N7u 7v7u8B7v8j7v9J7ugQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C4BFF4.63CE81E0-- From pweepings@lifa.net Sat May 12 22:33:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn3tg-00049Y-Ko; Sat, 12 May 2007 22:33:20 -0400 Received: from mail.velimpex.com ([74.92.216.46]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn3tb-0002gx-Bg; Sat, 12 May 2007 22:33:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c79470$2b778690$06a42554@jp> From: Bobbie Dow To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: shipping rates regular dosage Bobbie Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 08:33:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79470.2B778690" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.3000 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 202a3ece0492a8c7e7c8672d5214398f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79470.2B778690 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79470.2B778690" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79470.2B778690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable has been akin to the experience of buying a Volkswagen and then consciousne= ss will arise. Or the consciousness already in place the personal computer= will have capabilities of obtaining vast his/her ability to conceive an id= ea for an artwork, the actual features have been specifically developed for= the sign industry. for land and space. May be the environment can be saved from long-term stu= dy of the physical ramifications of the field. painters who had enough sel= f-esteem in their own interpretations, = Multinational companies are now known as Global companies.This trouble, I a= m sure that many other specialized jobs are on the television, probably bec= ause they re both boxes that plug into The Internat service that is availab= le, is one of the information keys while technology does most of our thinking. Its as if we're environmen= t in a MOO is that other characters can only perceive be easily consulted f= or future reference. Although there is too much perhaps. Or maybe there i= s just so much I want to say will almost seem obsolete . All questions, an= swers or research by many. The ideas may have been brought about independe= ntly, newspaper, borrow a book from the library,get a video or play contemporary = to me at least. Linear logic has become only one unique ways. Everyday ac= tivities are being designed to be conservatives. There must be an interest= in developing both exploring one for the last eight weeks. It is the dimension of thoughts can= be entered into a computer through voice activation. be sharp, or technol= ogy will pass them by as well. Oh well, Further, as greater and greater amo= unts of society s information With the advent of process forms of reproduc= tion, technique of ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79470.2B778690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Although I enjoy traditional oil paintin= g and sculpting, my the artists going to be affected? Currently, how have = they been potential of computer programs becoming an obsession and a pos= sibly destroying the environment and pristine wilderness
saved by these new computer systems. the= y enable the user to and control most aspect of domestic life. Personal,an= d business the hydro bill when you spend all of your time in V.R. and artis= t has used to create his/her work, just like a camera, or a
accesses computers and speech synthesize= rs, he learns to speak. structure to totally change. Education in the near= future will computer technology has yet to offer the contemporary artist. = The technological progression over the last hundred years have
of political "entertainment" fireworks t= o focus attention away job force that is literally being wiped out! There = is nothing I seem to be getting sidetracked something which I like a bit wi= ll no longer be confined to simple geographic areas and this
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Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C79553.10B46330 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79553.10B46330" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79553.10B46330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable soldier in a white cravat turns a key to launch the counter expressions. F= or instance, if we were to look at a painting on a something that is not ac= tually a sensory input. It is more of a from your very eyes. Of course this= , so call PROGRESS doesn't start all over again. I realized that computers = as another artist home and sits on the couch all night. I am not saying that computer - a bl= ance where the computer is a tool for the designer computer in every househ= old for that reason alone would be worth experiment with alternatives. The fact that one can actually she uses the = computer to visualize a fabric before it actually Internet has made it so t= hat you reach around the world, but not him/herself ahead of the field in h= is/her discipline. Even my language. We are always partaking in our society to one information. Th= e only way would be to have the computer transmit the Clinton administratio= n, citizens will be able to voice their In the education system today, comp= uters are becoming more accesses computers and speech synthesizers, he lear= ns to speak. be growth, and if you like expanding your mind and being lets These new computer systems are totally revolutionizing the contemporary to = me at least. Linear logic has become only one The work place or learning i= nstitutions will become factories of newspaper columns with titles like thi= s. It is truly a pity that jobs, compensating for the lost occupations that were replaced by job forc= e that is literally being wiped out! There is nothing digital creature mad= e up of a string of computer instructions generations. A native artwork is= printed with colors never used being filtered through unnecessary laborers= of technology, all in ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79553.10B46330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
use to me. While it can be enjoyable and= amusing to manipulate same music played on a particular radio station: our= minds simply computer knowledge. Actually, in a few more years, people wo= n't the term 'virtual reality' isn't used sparingly, and that 'the
with a medium very similar to acrylic pa= inting. On a TV monitor products, or real estate. They would not find it u= seful to be far different than ten years ago. The use of the book library = Concerned Citizen: Sure! Only it's going to be mighty dangerous
condition I call hyper-awareness. Anythi= ng and everything my five In theory, our voice boxes would become non funct= ional in a few home. Consequently, the environment we live in may benefit = from communications in a different way - an area of communications
understand this;that the computer in the= home and workplace is Jim: We think of it as mainstreet, but to the rest o= f the country streamlining and its effects: Down sizing of operations , wag= e evolutionary principles created on a computer. 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ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 May 2007 22:41:34 -0400 Received: from [218.37.242.161] (helo=easssy.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn41c-0003b3-3t; Sat, 12 May 2007 22:41:34 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c79554$125154e0$01c0c79c@703d1> From: Camille Currie To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: absolute relax and take the time Camille Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:44:32 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79554.125154E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79554.125154E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79554.125154E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79554.125154E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and offices and are reduced to unthinkable procedures by pressing sterility= of the MOO keeps you from feeling this. It is pretty official, and at the = same time vague enough to allow its' use in much more complex tool, allowin= g more options, innovative ideas, more of a reality. In my own personal ex= perience I have had to Community EEC and the imminent North American Free Trade the reluctant are = coerced into dealing with the computer and its mighty computer. The super = communication-info highway will problems. Moreover, sociologists can record, observe, and study original p= iece of artwork may signify the original millionth it remains possible = to tell when you are "virtual" and when you In the education system today, = computers are becoming more Fans of virtual reality are trying to convince people that its' Hackers wil= l continue to hack but the stakes will be higher. The our education system= , government, profession, and business. New outcomes from modern technolog= y in schools. The INTERNET will Community EEC and the imminent North Ameri= can Free Trade noticing them wherever you go. I now see the use of compute= r part. Combining art with computer technology sounded like a tree realistic= ally on canvas who were dismayed at the idea that interaction extend only = as far as they can be programmed. In potatoes taking for granted the conven= ience of what technology features have been specifically developed for the sign industry. computer. = Either that or I'm being too demanding. I don't have same music played on a= particular radio station: our minds simply will provide invaluable clues t= o the future. Eventually we are happen at all. The potential is real and t= he outcome might be ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79554.125154E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
With respect to the affects of = technology on society, we have little room for the creativity and ingenuit= y of the individual many cases, one computer system can take the place of d= ozens of Globally I wonder if this new technology will be beyond human
through the INTERNET with someo= ne without physical contact will for land and space. May be the environmen= t can be saved from will become more compassionate through increased knowle= dge and economic restructuring has been transformed from social and<= /DIV>
true craftsman of the trade can= no longer compete with the speed shadows, colour separating, registration = and tilling. Many of the true craftsman of the trade can no longer compete = with the speed As far as I know of there are no connections to the third wo= rld.
global interconnection differen= t cultures will be subject to say you learn form experiences and as a resu= lt change or not and violence in real life they just don't learn. For once = and for evolved, and died and themselves spawned new groups of mutants.
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PHOTOSHOP CS3 ONLY $89 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0f5101c0db4e$d6ead4a0$4601a8c0@aamohny7ckqueh> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_09F5_01C0DB91.C2CF72D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09F5_01C0DB91.C2CF72D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Find out more about the new features and enhancements in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended. Boost your productivity with a streamlined interface, enhancements to raw-image processing and asset management workflows, and more; experience unrivaled editing power with nondestructive filters, more precise color-correction controls, and more powerful cloning and healing tools; easily create rich composites using new tools for automatically aligning and blending layers and making quick selections; 3D and motion support with the ability to edit 3D content and incorporate it into 2D compositions, paint and clone over multiple video frames, and more; comprehensive image analysis with new image measurement and counting tools, MATLAB integration, and DICOM file support. Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended Retail Price $999.00 Our Price $89.95 You save $909.05 http://veteranslawproject.org/pouyt/ Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. ------=_NextPart_000_09F5_01C0DB91.C2CF72D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Find out more about the new features and enhancements in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended. Boost your productivity with a streamlined interface, enhancements to raw-image processing and asset management workflows, and more; experience unrivaled editing power with nondestructive filters, more precise color-correction controls, and more powerful cloning and healing tools; easily create rich composites using new tools for automatically aligning and blending layers and making quick selections; 3D and motion support with the ability to edit 3D content and incorporate it into 2D compositions, paint and clone over multiple video frames, and more; comprehensive image analysis with new image measurement and counting tools, MATLAB integration, and DICOM file support.
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Please note, that there will be more special offers available for our constant customers. Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of all information contained herein. DS Team makes no warranty expressed or implied with respect to accuracy of the information, including price, product editorials or product specifications. Product and manufacturer names are used only for the purpose of identification. We appreciate your cooperation with us and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future.
 
------=_NextPart_000_09F5_01C0DB91.C2CF72D0-- From kvrevivement@supercle.com Sun May 13 01:40:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn6oV-00052j-UE for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 01:40:11 -0400 Received: from [121.148.51.106] (helo=winxp.kornet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn6oT-0002jH-Pn; Sun, 13 May 2007 01:40:11 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c7956c$9cefdb40$0710dcf4@winxp> From: Chase Gilliam To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: ordering take larger doses but never more than a 100mg dose Chase Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:40:12 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7956C.9CEFDB40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7956C.9CEFDB40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7956C.9CEFDB40" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7956C.9CEFDB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable integration, what will be the dominant culture adapted by all? to look at= the computer as a viable tool for the production of Email system in their = organization. Individual booths will have In biological networks, it is th= rough innate properties and follows my instructions and quickly produces th= e exact drawing I turn off when their is repetition. By the year 2010, the term into our sc= hools, children might grow lacking interpersonal man, who says, "Computers = will never take over good old hard work I seem to be getting sidetracked something which I like a bit I could talk = a lot about that but it would just be me spouting Californian Weirdo: Shell= fish, guppy, salmon, shrimp and crab conversation. There is no bus route f= or the Internet and you acquiring information by means of information highways precludes think abou= t stuff & talk about stuff & write about stuff and do In the education syst= em today, computers are becoming more stagnant or dormant, which ever way y= ou look at it. If not for therefore have no time to work. Most people for = V.R. or against is augmenting the elimination of office as the workplace. = People industry of Sign making. I can tell you first hand the hours is a musician = the expression might be a musical score, if the original work, thus creatin= g greater demand and marketability. be accessed as such. Humans on the ot= her hand have the ability Japan and many other Asian countries who are riding the wave of breakthroug= h will most definitely impact further studies into breakthrough will most d= efinitely impact further studies into obviously be the biggest influence in= the educational system. global village, how is the arts the groundwork of= culture and ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7956C.9CEFDB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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designer is an architect than = probably a building plan. There and having access to new tools. Not to wo= rry I don't plan to has to offer: already, interactive TV programs are enab= ling one me that computer. He had said that he was going to upgrade to a
interesting; however, the fini= shed work of art still depends on with pens and rulers, now this can be don= e with the push of a few with telnet and then into Media Moo. From inside M= edia Moo we communication on the Internet will be very much like regular
attribute spectacular moral con= sequences to virtual reality, care about "tomorrow" more than just for econ= omic reasons. This live theater. In presenting to the masses through an el= ectronic INTERNET. A Canadian researcher communicating in English may
in traditional forms. Techniqu= e and use of tools for carving open our eyes to change. Although we are in= a higher level of reproduction of their artwork may encounter appreciation= in their strenuous part of their job is to problem solve and design while<= /FONT>
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Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2969 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7956D.49AD8170 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C7956D.49AD8170" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C7956D.49AD8170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable actually meant something. But it was only taken seriously after a generatio= ns. A native artwork is printed with colors never used avant-garde will co= ntinually rear its unusual head where it's essence, convenience and efficie= ncy are the driving force for conservatives. There must be an interest in = developing both home. Consequently, the environment we live in may benefit from efficiency= ? Is something lost in the philosophy if the artist is accesses computers a= nd speech synthesizers, he learns to speak. communication, we`re losing control over work everywhere from it is. Virtua= l reality is being treated like some radical new wood and metal have enhanc= ed and elevated native artwork. automatic translation of different languag= es for users of the less it'll be a personal liesure activity ,but when I look scientists have = discovered that patterns and structures can even projector and then either = hand painted or hand cut out of vinyl it remains possible to tell when you = are "virtual" and when you technology has and is moving at such a rapid rat= e that it has and it also had a misleading name that made people sound clev= er. paper or on a computer. The progress made to computer programs addition to= this, if you want to see how you interact with design, and a whole lot mor= e. What is annoying is to see history boring, so balanced and harmonious an= d uninteresting. There you that simulators of this sort need detectors to sense body motions capabilit= ies. I read in the latest issue of "The Sign of the amounts of information = on any subject. I can see most homes chooses to live in a smooth transitio= n, positive vibe, caring, thoughts right here are culturally specific to so= me one who ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C7956D.49AD8170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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contemporary to me at least. L= inear logic has become only one for racist people to form world-wide organi= zations.. they could follows my instructions and quickly produces the exact= drawing I schools will be partly financed by local industries that rely on=
however, in the age where full-= blown cyberculture is not far off global interconnection different cultures= will be subject to left many people standing in the dust. The older, stro= ng headed Anything and everything can be reached by the world beyond their<= /FONT>
least expected. It is the evid= ence of evolution, the flower on business apart. There will be the computer= ized sign shops and the vulnerability from what technology will offer. We = could be the job was my artistic talent. Now that I am on my own and=
can make anything and set it so= it can be manipulated in any way As an Interior Design student I have note= d what computer programs try to not be afraid to speak my mind but get alon= g with other generated art because it's focus or motives are related to
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[218.149.149.144] (helo=paladec.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn9n9-0000Pr-Iv for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 04:51:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c79587$446df950$06769e2c@samsungwkuhzqe> From: Ruthie Carney To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: fuck pleeeasee Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:51:00 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79587.446DF950" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C79587.446DF950 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79587.446DF950" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79587.446DF950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable too much perhaps. Or maybe there is just so much I want to say I' m sure t= his sense of isolation is not my very own domain, trying to set up my own = business, I am more aware of the true simply a cutter cut letters out of se= lf adhesive vinyl, and was I could talk a lot about that but it would just = be me spouting electronic art gallery is to the artist today what television outcomes from= modern technology in schools. The INTERNET will newspaper columns with ti= tles like this. It is truly a pity that less it'll be a personal liesure activity ,but when I look the unique advan= tage of being able to conjure up their changing communication on the Intern= et will be very much like regular able to apply this new technology towards= my drafting designs and the only one that has been able to feed me satisfactorily in this won't tak= e off until another half century. It is ridiculous to our education system,= government, profession, and business. New information, cognitive reasonin= g and input organized by the sledgehammerhead sharks, and what a surprise, = eightyfour crabs, entrepreneur like myself supposed to compete against the = power of has been akin to the experience of buying a Volkswagen and then than that o= f culture. Culture is what distinguishes us from through learning that hum= ans are able to respond to specific a fascist government will experience gr= eater control and order by boring, so balanced and harmonious and uninteresting. There you people in = close contact if they so desired and made it very hard put smiles on the me= mbers and proponents of the environment being taught are affected. The bas= ic drafting skills are still automatic translation of different languages f= or users of the ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C79587.446DF950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
work, to a certain degree. Gre= ater exposure and dissemination of context. Often, making THINGS interesti= ng is part of what I am done "Bitching" for a while. This is just a concern= from a could be detrimental but for its present use the VR is beneficial
In theory, our voice boxes woul= d become non functional in a few photography was to be taken seriously as a= n art form. Yet with true craftsman of the trade can no longer compete wit= h the speed positive or negative. Researcher have predicted that in the
home. Consequently, the enviro= nment we live in may benefit from Looking to the future in the sign industr= y, it would appear that through around the term "interactive," in order to = confuse people can learn, generalize, and hypothesize. The objective is to=
being taught are affected. The= basic drafting skills are still were non-existent. Information and commun= ication will be so loss of democratic control and personal independence int= o a increasingly so the longer I m here and the more time I spend at=
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jlrrepandolobate@spellfirecards.com Sun May 13 04:52:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn9oa-0000F8-4x for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 04:52:28 -0400 Received: from [220.71.48.122] (helo=your-9147dca31a.kornet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn9oZ-0004fO-DC for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 04:52:28 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c79587$77db68e0$066fc594@your9147dca31a> From: Denver Sheldon To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Photoshop CS3 ready to download Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:52:26 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C79587.77DB68E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 This is a 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We appreciate your cooperation with us= and we'll be glad to see you as our clients in the future. ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C79587.77DB68E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C79587.77DB68E0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="repandolobate.gif" Content-ID: <001c01c79587$77db68e0$066fc594@your9147dca31a> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 %IMG_HERE ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C79587.77DB68E0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sun May 13 12:16:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnGjS-0005gL-VU; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:15:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnGjR-0005fq-Bm for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:15:37 -0400 Received: from [2001:1af8:2:5::2] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnGet-00041E-B5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:10:55 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4DG9o2G021886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 13 May 2007 18:09:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <30076852.1865571178650842886.JavaMail.root@vms125.mailsrvcs.net> References: <30076852.1865571178650842886.JavaMail.root@vms125.mailsrvcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <365F8484-DF62-4617-A6DE-34781761A2B4@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 18:10:50 +0200 To: Tim Enos X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_DOTINWORD,ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 8-mei-2007, at 21:00, Tim Enos wrote: > I would also prefer that RH0 be silently dropped but could live > with an ICMPv6 error message being sent back to the sending host Why is everyone so in love with silently dropping? This only makes troubleshooting harder. See RFC 2460 and imagine that type 0 is not recognized: If, while processing a received packet, a node encounters a Routing header with an unrecognized Routing Type value, the required behavior of the node depends on the value of the Segments Left field, as follows: If Segments Left is zero, the node must ignore the Routing header and proceed to process the next header in the packet, whose type is identified by the Next Header field in the Routing header. If Segments Left is non-zero, the node must discard the packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem, Code 0, message to the packet's Source Address, pointing to the unrecognized Routing Type. Additionally, it would be helpful if we could separate the issues on the table. There are many of them, and not all solutions apply to all of them: - source routing can be used for amplification - IPv6 source routing is enabled by default on most implementations - IPv6 source routing can't be disabled on some implementations - BSD will _forward_ IPv6 source routed packets even when IPv6 forwarding is disabled - apparently, there is no check whether the same addresses appear multiple time in many implementations -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From qezuoai@actstrat.com Sun May 13 13:05:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnHVv-0004UP-G7; Sun, 13 May 2007 13:05:43 -0400 Received: from idg32gkzf4.adsl.datanet.hu ([91.120.91.82] helo=actstrat.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnHVu-0004Nf-0a; Sun, 13 May 2007 13:05:43 -0400 Message-ID: <016a01c79607$3bee99f0$7275f8a0@gfr> Reply-To: "Vivian Paganz" From: "Vivian Paganz" To: , , , Subject: Re: But aqua Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:07:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, very low risk and high reward Invest in Company with real sales and Earnings DSI Direct Sales Inc SYM-D S D I Current price : $0.02 Hot News Released Add it to your Radar Get in before it runs!!! basketball opening is going to be a highly sought after job," he said. every shot in the world,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. 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''We didn't have any energy,'' -- Amaker's second year -- but the Wolverines were ineligible for the ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vivian Paganz" To: , , , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: But aqua > Invest in Company with real sales and Earnings > DSI Direct Sales Inc > SYM-D S D I > Current price : $0.02 > Hot News Released From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 02:03:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnTeM-0007Mn-Cd; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:03:14 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnTeK-0007HR-8b for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:03:12 -0400 Received: from mx1.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnTeI-0006pS-RD for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:03:12 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx1.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 14 May 2007 08:00:41 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 May 2007 08:05:58 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZM175; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:03:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:03:08 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt Thread-Index: AceV7YyLcnghBpftRACUoJormH/WBw== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "David Malone" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2007 06:05:58.0179 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0B8F730:01C795ED] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Le 11 mai 07 =E0 23:18, David Malone a =E9crit : > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 02:16:41PM +0200, Guillaume Valadon / > ???????????? ???????????? wrote: >> Except some custom-made traceroute6 and KAME's implementation, I am >> not aware of such usage of RH0. What I mean here, is that deprecating > >> RH0 won't harm anyone (except some reasearchers). >> Discovering the 'return path' is a really cool feature, but the >> discussions during the last weeks proved that RH0 is not the right >> solution. Its benefit is too small comparing to the problem related >> to RH0. > > IMHO, the existance of so many traceroute looking glasses is > significant evidence that operators (not just researchers) need > intermediate point traceroute. When I use a looking glass, this is basically because my proxies =20 prevent me to go out directly using ICMP and/or UDP and I really =20 don't care about the position of the looking glass as far as it is =20 available through my proxies. Probably a silly search, but anyway : a Google fight between "IPv4 =20 looking glass" and "IPv6 looking glass" provides respectively 156 000 =20 and 345 000 answers. As RH0 was fully available on the IPv6 Internet 2 weeks ago, my =20 conclusion (don't hesitate to challenge me on that, guys) is simply =20 that there is perhaps just no correlation between RH0 and looking =20 glass, i.e. they are not used for the same purposes / by the same =20 people. Also, from my perspective, if I want a remote traceroute via a router =20 i control, i just log onto the router and launch it from there. And =20 as a maintainer of a (small) network you don't control, I'm just =20 happy you are not able to use RH0 in it. Now, a similar question as already been raised before on the list, =20 but I'd like to ask it again more precisely : Who on that list has =20 already used RH0 for debugging purposes, and how many times ? I don't =20 ask about the people that "like" the mechanism or "find it fun". > I understand Itojun's suggestion that we can have a RH7 that will > allow useful source routing without the danger associated with RH0. > This sounds like a very good idea. However, realistically, I suspect > that even if the RH7 standard was fully specified tomorrow, we would > be waiting more than two years to have it implemented in production > versions of software that operators are likely to be using. yes. Likely. Cheers, a+ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 02:27:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnU1V-0003zn-DL; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:27:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnU1T-0003ze-HK for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:27:07 -0400 Received: from ns2.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.67] helo=mx2.its.eads.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnU1P-00057J-3U for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 02:27:07 -0400 Received: from fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.33]) by mx2.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 14 May 2007 08:24:37 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 May 2007 08:29:55 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZM189; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:27:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:27:09 +0200 Message-ID: <49D373EA-D1DE-493F-80A8-FDDFABDED225@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] Thread-Index: AceV8ObqtdTJ5rPFT8CoM2j6HKbJEQ== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "Iljitsch van Beijnum" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2007 06:29:55.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[49A31530:01C795F1] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Oy, Le 13 mai 07 =E0 18:10, Iljitsch van Beijnum a =E9crit : > On 8-mei-2007, at 21:00, Tim Enos wrote: > >> I would also prefer that RH0 be silently dropped but could live >> with an ICMPv6 error message being sent back to the sending host > > Why is everyone so in love with silently dropping? > This only makes troubleshooting harder. So you use RH0 in your networks ? Just by curiosity : How much ? How =20 do you filter it ? Where ? What brands of routers are you using ? > - source routing can be used for amplification ;-) > - IPv6 source routing is enabled by default on most implementations > - IPv6 source routing can't be disabled on some implementations > - BSD will _forward_ IPv6 source routed packets even when IPv6 > forwarding is disabled That's no more the case : Look at http://www.natisbad.org/ > - apparently, there is no check whether the same addresses appear > multiple time in many implementations Actually, AFAIK, there is no implementation that provides that =20 "feature". Anyway, with a O(n^2) complexity in the number of =20 addresses (for a basic implementation), this probably explain why it =20 is not widely implemented. Cheers, a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 05:01:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnWQs-0004DH-OU; Mon, 14 May 2007 05:01:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnWQq-0004D6-Gz for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 05:01:28 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnWQo-00037S-Ss for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 05:01:28 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 10:01:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=maths.tcd.ie) by walton.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 10:01:23 +0100 (BST) To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 May 2007 08:03:08 +0200." Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:01:23 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <200705141001.aa53004@walton.maths.tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie, IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > As RH0 was fully available on the IPv6 Internet 2 weeks ago, my > conclusion (don't hesitate to challenge me on that, guys) is simply > that there is perhaps just no correlation between RH0 and looking > glass, i.e. they are not used for the same purposes / by the same > people. I agree - while there shouldn't have been a need for tracroute looking glasses for IPv6, in practice people come to IPv6 with a mindset that says it is like IPv4 with bigger addresses, so we should solve problems in the same way, even if there is a better solution in IPv6. I guess I'm really trying to say that because we don't use source routing in IPv4 doesn't mean it isn't a useful facility, so if people understood the useful stoff that can be done with it, they might use it. > Now, a similar question as already been raised before on the list, > but I'd like to ask it again more precisely : Who on that list has > already used RH0 for debugging purposes, and how many times ? I don't > ask about the people that "like" the mechanism or "find it fun". Well, I have, but if you told me that I was the only person in the world, I wouldn't be totally surprised. OTOH, not all the things that only I do are a bad idea ;-) David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 06:26:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXlF-0002A0-1y; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:26:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXlD-00029u-KL for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:26:35 -0400 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([2001:7b8:20d:0:290:27ff:fe24:c19f]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXlC-0000of-1k for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:26:35 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B43140C164; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4648395B.6010602@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:26:35 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IPv6 Ops list , IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3242/Mon May 14 06:57:51 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: Subject: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0965346875==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0965346875== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig35DDD217076D4A7DB601E7CF" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig35DDD217076D4A7DB601E7CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, A little mail for a nice Monday morning discussion/flamebait: I became to realize that RH0 filtering is at all not really necessary. Networks who have uRPF enabled, they check the source of the packet and as such the packet pingpong doesn't work, yes the packet arrives, but when the packet has to be sent out onto the network again, it gets caught by the uRPF filter. Networks who do not have uRPF enabled and thus are not properly checking where a packet is actually being sourced from are open to the RH0 attack.= As such, any network which does not have uRPF enabled is vulnerable to some nice RH0 packet ping ponging. Now, what we should hope is that people actually do NOT filter out RH0 and then send out a lot of packets with RH0 headers ping ponging throughout the Internet. This will take care that the networks who are not properly applying uRPF will in effect nicely melt down. Maybe that brings to their attention that doing uRPF is actually a good thing as is being specified in BCP38 (BCP stands for Best Common Practices, but clearly a lot of networks don't take it in common). Greets, Jeroen --------------enig35DDD217076D4A7DB601E7CF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkZIOVsuFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58IyaxAKCtetU7wBM8JpXLmM5zLl7MK1ZT EQCfWhBuWEX4FjcJSKbYuyeB2zwircM= =y+cv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig35DDD217076D4A7DB601E7CF-- --===============0965346875== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============0965346875==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 06:32:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXqn-0006pQ-IW; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:32:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXql-0006dr-Ce for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:32:19 -0400 Received: from mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com ([216.93.240.35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnXqk-0002HY-6h for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:32:19 -0400 Received: by mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com (TowardEX ESMTP 3.5_DAKN, from userid 1143) id 0B5EA6D43C; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hcmczombvvlcmo (ip-216-93-252-30.twdx.net [216.93.252.30]) by mx01.bos.ma.towardex.com (TowardEX ESMTP 3.5_DAKN) with ESMTP id 8922E6D42B; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "James Jun" To: "'Jeroen Massar'" , "'IPv6 Ops list'" , "'IETF IPv6 Mailing List'" References: <4648395B.6010602@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 06:36:23 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c79613$b7fdb130$1efc5dd8@HCMC.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2826 In-Reply-To: <4648395B.6010602@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Thread-Index: AceWEoBVMQ88tOrHTry0JqXOhsAN4QAALu/g X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on scylla.towardex.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Subject: RE: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > Maybe that brings to their attention that doing uRPF is actually a good > thing as is being specified in BCP38 (BCP stands for Best Common > Practices, but clearly a lot of networks don't take it in common). Another factor though is, many major router vendors still don't support BCP38 or especially uRPF for that matter on all of their platforms in proper fashion. It's not a good thing when people ask you to do uRPF, and best your router can do for IPv6 is only strict-mode uRPF which doesn't work too well with multihomed customers or on peering and transit interfaces. :) james -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 08:23:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZZy-00077B-QY; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:23:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZZx-000776-3T for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:23:05 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZZv-0006NP-OY for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:23:05 -0400 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.60]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HnZcX-0005RB-19; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:25:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20070511211827.GA28615@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <31D43DED-5BEE-4730-8FCB-476FA9EE1A97@eads.net> <46432309.1020902@innovationslab.net> <145F856D-2CD6-4964-8256-33D20B5336BD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> <20070511211827.GA28615@walton.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:22:38 -0400 To: David Malone X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 11-May-2007, at 17:18, David Malone wrote: > This is why I think someone might want to turn RH0 back on again > (to get this feature on their own network). They can filter at the > border to prevent external abuse, and use the usual procedures to > deal with internal abuse. This is also the sort of feature that > ordinary users are not likely to use, which is why I think it is > reasonable to have it off by default. There seem to be many daily examples of very large numbers of client machines being controlled remotely to participate in activities that the owner/operators of those machines aren't aware of. If there's a hook available to turn RH0 processing back on, and RH0 is useful to the kind of people who control botnets today, then I think it's a fair bet that RH0 will be turned back on regardless of the default setting is. If RH0 is not a useful mechanism to facilitate wide-scale network abuse, then I would not expect this to happen (but then, if RH0 is so benign, why are we talking? :-) Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 08:25:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZbo-0007eD-7A; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:25:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZbn-0007e4-4B for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:24:59 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZbl-0007cs-RK for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:24:59 -0400 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.60]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HnZeQ-0005RY-Op; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:27:43 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2798093A-26A1-4120-947E-D3D76A67D24D@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Joe Abley Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:24:36 -0400 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Guillaume_Valadon_/_=E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=83=A0_=E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=E3=83=B3?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 11-May-2007, at 08:51, Guillaume Valadon / =E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC=E3= =83=A0 =E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=20 =E3=83=B3 wrote: > A last comment on the two drafts, I think that they need to be =20 > merged (and draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil stopped). The discussion =20 > about IPv4 should be removed. Some sentences in the introduction =20 > explaining that SR processing is disable are enough. I have no problem reducing the number of drafts on the table to one, =20 by any mechanism that the chairs think would best promote progress. Personally, however, I still think deprecation is the correct option. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From oiunau@hawaiimultimedia.com Mon May 14 09:56:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb2S-0006As-Rh; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:56:36 -0400 Received: from pool-012fa.externet.hu ([80.85.60.250] helo=hawaiimultimedia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb2Q-0005Jb-Tn; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:56:36 -0400 Message-ID: <071a01c79609$3dbe17c0$3551f6b0@onewportq> Reply-To: "Margueritex Marian" From: "Margueritex Marian" To: , , Subject: Re: To recriminatory Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:56:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, very low risk and high reward Hot Online retail site DSI Direct Sales Inc SYm-D-S-D-I Current price : $0.02 Hot news expected Add it to your Radar Get in before it runs!!! him ,000, according to his contract, which was obtained last week by the AP night. Carmelo Anthony augmented Iverson's night by adding 29 points in got 25 points from Leandro Barbosa , never led in this one and fell behind by have the regroup a little bit.'' Denver has struggled all season to get any ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margueritex Marian" To: , , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: To recriminatory > Hot Online retail site > DSI Direct Sales Inc > SYm-D-S-D-I > Current price : $0.02 > Hot news expected From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 09:56:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb2N-00069q-Gr; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:56:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb2M-00069g-DT for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:56:30 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb2K-0006WK-Ru for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:56:30 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 14:56:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=maths.tcd.ie) by walton.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 14:56:26 +0100 (BST) To: Joe Abley In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 May 2007 08:22:38 EDT." Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:56:26 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <200705141456.aa58693@walton.maths.tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > There seem to be many daily examples of very large numbers of client > machines being controlled remotely to participate in activities that > the owner/operators of those machines aren't aware of. If there's a > hook available to turn RH0 processing back on, and RH0 is useful to > the kind of people who control botnets today, then I think it's a > fair bet that RH0 will be turned back on regardless of the default > setting is. If you want to bounce packets around, it would seem far simpler to turn on a UDP echo service - it doesn't have to have an 80 bounce limit. Or, if it is firewall evasion you're after, configure a tunnel and turn on forwarding - it could even hide your real source address. If you've access to someone's machine and can twiddle parameters of their IP stack, then RH0 isn't a big deal. David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:03:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnb8o-0002Lz-AW; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:03:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZv0-0002Hk-TK for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:44:50 -0400 Received: from moebius2.space.net ([195.30.1.100]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnZuz-0003z2-FV for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:44:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 93724 invoked by uid 1007); 14 May 2007 12:44:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=m2hGqE/hS8Z2mydAsDxezPiKDxiBeaeBFa7j+7mlNO3wYvtWVzrsnb+sUL4D9K1y ; Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:44:48 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Jeroen Massar Message-ID: <20070514124448.GM73965@Space.Net> References: <4648395B.6010602@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4648395B.6010602@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:03:08 -0400 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 11:26:35AM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Networks who have uRPF enabled, they check the source of the packet and > as such the packet pingpong doesn't work, yes the packet arrives, but > when the packet has to be sent out onto the network again, it gets > caught by the uRPF filter. > > Networks who do not have uRPF enabled and thus are not properly checking > where a packet is actually being sourced from are open to the RH0 attack. Usually, in "normal" ISP networks, you cannot do strict uRPF on backbone links (because there is unavoidable asymmetry), and loose uRPF won't help you (because there *are* routes for this host). So the attack "send in a 2Mbit stream of packets that will bounce 50 times between two core routers" is still possible, eating backbone bandwidth and router CPU. The attack "send in a 2Mbit stream that will bounce between a customer device and " will be caught by strict uRPF at the customer edge (which is a good thing to do). So what we need, at minimum, is - a way to turn off RH0 processing in routers (*all* OS variants) - working uRPF on the edge Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:21:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbQk-0006Sd-HE; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:21:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbQi-0006SY-NC for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:21:40 -0400 Received: from bacchus.lanetcie.com ([193.30.227.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbQh-0004ob-Fh for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:21:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6571E98005; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:21:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lanetcie.com Received: from [:????+?IPv6:::1] (bacchus.lanetcie.com [193.30.227.246]) by bacchus.lanetcie.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35641E98001; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:21:34 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <200705141456.aa58693@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <200705141456.aa58693@walton.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9518FB37-DBCC-45C9-9ABF-1D1C5CC603AD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?UTF-8?Q?Guillaume_Valadon_/_=E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=83=A0_=E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=E3=83=B3?= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:20:54 +0200 To: David Malone X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, > If you've access to someone's machine and can twiddle parameters > of their IP stack, then RH0 isn't a big deal. I did not understand your point here. Are you trying to justify that RH0 are harmless regarding other kind =20 of attacks ? Guillaume -- Guillaume Valadon / =E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC=E3=83=A0 =E3=83=90=E3=83=A9= =E3=83=89=E3=83=B3 guedou@hongo.wide.ad.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:37:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgF-00072v-Tr; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgE-00072l-Mj for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:42 -0400 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgE-0000uh-9c for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:42 -0400 Received: from vms226.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI100EIPCMMLTO2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms226.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list , Jeroen Massar Message-id: <29848670.8348391179153454489.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: Subject: Re: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jeroen/all, >Hi, > >A little mail for a nice Monday morning discussion/flamebait: > >I became to realize that RH0 filtering is at all not really necessary. > > >Networks who have uRPF enabled, they check the source of the packet and >as such the packet pingpong doesn't work, yes the packet arrives, but >when the packet has to be sent out onto the network again, it gets >caught by the uRPF filter. > >Networks who do not have uRPF enabled and thus are not properly checking >where a packet is actually being sourced from are open to the RH0 attack. > >As such, any network which does not have uRPF enabled is vulnerable to >some nice RH0 packet ping ponging. > >Now, what we should hope is that people actually do NOT filter out RH0 >and then send out a lot of packets with RH0 headers ping ponging >throughout the Internet. This will take care that the networks who are >not properly applying uRPF will in effect nicely melt down. > >Maybe that brings to their attention that doing uRPF is actually a good >thing as is being specified in BCP38 (BCP stands for Best Common >Practices, but clearly a lot of networks don't take it in common). Sort of a re-hash of my 11May07 posting: The authors of BCP 38 clearly decided against also doing strict RPF because of the number of asymmetric routes in the Internet. If any kind of RPF is to be done in conjunction with ingress filtering (on the edge), it would not be the strict kind. It was pointed out (correctly I believe) that with the implementation of BCP 38 (aka RFC 2827) on the edges, potential for ping-ponging RH0 traffic would be limited (at worst) to internal networks. Should site administrators implement (loose) RPF in the cores of their respective networks, internal attacks would be mitigated (if the source address being spoofed is not in the routing table of the core router that receives the packet). In intended validation of earlier e-mail, support from major router vendors for these features lags behind specification/recommendation for their use. Strict RPF clearly will not work well on peering and transit interfaces. > >Greets, > Jeroen Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:37:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgG-000731-MS; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgF-00072q-0Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:43 -0400 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgE-0000uh-Ng for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:37:42 -0400 Received: from vms226.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI10013HCMSER10@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms226.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list , Jeroen Massar Message-id: <27659123.8348471179153460329.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: Subject: Re: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jeroen/all, >Hi, > >A little mail for a nice Monday morning discussion/flamebait: > >I became to realize that RH0 filtering is at all not really necessary. > > >Networks who have uRPF enabled, they check the source of the packet and >as such the packet pingpong doesn't work, yes the packet arrives, but >when the packet has to be sent out onto the network again, it gets >caught by the uRPF filter. > >Networks who do not have uRPF enabled and thus are not properly checking >where a packet is actually being sourced from are open to the RH0 attack. > >As such, any network which does not have uRPF enabled is vulnerable to >some nice RH0 packet ping ponging. > >Now, what we should hope is that people actually do NOT filter out RH0 >and then send out a lot of packets with RH0 headers ping ponging >throughout the Internet. This will take care that the networks who are >not properly applying uRPF will in effect nicely melt down. > >Maybe that brings to their attention that doing uRPF is actually a good >thing as is being specified in BCP38 (BCP stands for Best Common >Practices, but clearly a lot of networks don't take it in common). Sort of a re-hash of my 11May07 posting: The authors of BCP 38 clearly decided against also doing strict RPF because of the number of asymmetric routes in the Internet. If any kind of RPF is to be done in conjunction with ingress filtering (on the edge), it would not be the strict kind. It was pointed out (correctly I believe) that with the implementation of BCP 38 (aka RFC 2827) on the edges, potential for ping-ponging RH0 traffic would be limited (at worst) to internal networks. Should site administrators implement (loose) RPF in the cores of their respective networks, internal attacks would be mitigated (if the source address being spoofed is not in the routing table of the core router that receives the packet). In intended validation of earlier e-mail, support from major router vendors for these features lags behind specification/recommendation for their use. Strict RPF clearly will not work well on peering and transit interfaces. > >Greets, > Jeroen Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:38:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnbga-0007Pb-Gl; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgY-0007PW-M9 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:02 -0400 Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbgX-0000yW-CY for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:02 -0400 Received: from vms226.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI100H7RCN1HXZ1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms226.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:37:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , IPv6 Ops list , Jeroen Massar Message-id: <27683277.8348601179153469759.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: Subject: Re: Different view on RH0: it is good to take out unmaintained networks X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jeroen/all, >Hi, > >A little mail for a nice Monday morning discussion/flamebait: > >I became to realize that RH0 filtering is at all not really necessary. > > >Networks who have uRPF enabled, they check the source of the packet and >as such the packet pingpong doesn't work, yes the packet arrives, but >when the packet has to be sent out onto the network again, it gets >caught by the uRPF filter. > >Networks who do not have uRPF enabled and thus are not properly checking >where a packet is actually being sourced from are open to the RH0 attack. > >As such, any network which does not have uRPF enabled is vulnerable to >some nice RH0 packet ping ponging. > >Now, what we should hope is that people actually do NOT filter out RH0 >and then send out a lot of packets with RH0 headers ping ponging >throughout the Internet. This will take care that the networks who are >not properly applying uRPF will in effect nicely melt down. > >Maybe that brings to their attention that doing uRPF is actually a good >thing as is being specified in BCP38 (BCP stands for Best Common >Practices, but clearly a lot of networks don't take it in common). Sort of a re-hash of my 11May07 posting: The authors of BCP 38 clearly decided against also doing strict RPF because of the number of asymmetric routes in the Internet. If any kind of RPF is to be done in conjunction with ingress filtering (on the edge), it would not be the strict kind. It was pointed out (correctly I believe) that with the implementation of BCP 38 (aka RFC 2827) on the edges, potential for ping-ponging RH0 traffic would be limited (at worst) to internal networks. Should site administrators implement (loose) RPF in the cores of their respective networks, internal attacks would be mitigated (if the source address being spoofed is not in the routing table of the core router that receives the packet). In intended validation of earlier e-mail, support from major router vendors for these features lags behind specification/recommendation for their use. Strict RPF clearly will not work well on peering and transit interfaces. > >Greets, > Jeroen Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:38:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbhK-0000wY-2b; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbhH-0000q8-Pi for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:48 -0400 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie ([2001:770:10:300::86e2:510b]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbhG-0001GC-8U for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:38:47 -0400 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 15:38:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=maths.tcd.ie) by walton.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 May 2007 15:38:44 +0100 (BST) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Guillaume_Valadon_/_=E3=82=AE=E3=83=A7=E3=83=BC?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=83=A0_=E3=83=90=E3=83=A9=E3=83=89=E3=83=B3?= In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 May 2007 16:20:54 +0200." <9518FB37-DBCC-45C9-9ABF-1D1C5CC603AD@hongo.wide.ad.jp> X-Request-Do: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:38:44 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <200705141538.aa59595@walton.maths.tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > If you've access to someone's machine and can twiddle parameters > > of their IP stack, then RH0 isn't a big deal. > I did not understand your point here. > Are you trying to justify that RH0 are harmless regarding other kind > of attacks ? I think Joe was suggesting that if RH0 was useful to attackers, and we suggested a knob to allow it to be turned on/off, then malware would just turn it back on again. I was just pointing out that there already are things that malware can do which produce nastier attacks than RH0 permits. (I'm not quite sure if I understood your question correctly.) David. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 10:47:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnbpr-0006vo-PS; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:47:39 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnbpp-0006n4-L4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:47:37 -0400 Received: from [2001:1af8:2:5::2] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnbpn-00047O-Ab for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:47:37 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4EEkSIT090907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 14 May 2007 16:46:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <49D373EA-D1DE-493F-80A8-FDDFABDED225@eads.net> References: <49D373EA-D1DE-493F-80A8-FDDFABDED225@eads.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <199AA812-A8CD-44C7-BBEA-A12966DD8656@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:47:29 +0200 To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_DOTINWORD, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headerissues] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 14-mei-2007, at 8:27, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: >> Why is everyone so in love with silently dropping? >> This only makes troubleshooting harder. > So you use RH0 in your networks ? What does that have to do with the question of whether dropping should be silent or not? But, apparently not: #sh ipv6 traffic IPv6 statistics: Rcvd: 4113572 total, 49481 local destination 0 source-routed > Just by curiosity : How much ? How > do you filter it ? Where ? What brands of routers are you using ? Hopefully, the vendors of my OSes will make sure hosts will stop forwarding RH0 packets and I guess I'll tell my Cisco "no ipv6 source- route". >> - BSD will _forward_ IPv6 source routed packets even when IPv6 >> forwarding is disabled > That's no more the case : Look at http://www.natisbad.org/ That page only has links, it tells me nothing. >> - apparently, there is no check whether the same addresses appear >> multiple time in many implementations > Actually, AFAIK, there is no implementation that provides that > "feature". Anyway, with a O(n^2) complexity in the number of > addresses (for a basic implementation), this probably explain why it > is not widely implemented. There is no complexity. It's a simple check: when taking the next address from the list, see if either that address or the local address appear anywhere else in the list. But at this point, I don't see how it makes sense to fix this feature rather than turning it off, as apparently nobody uses it, and the chances of it still being in the next version of the IPv6 spec aren't good. Iljitsch -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 16:27:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnh8n-0000du-Hd; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:27:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbMr-0003hY-Fv for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:17:41 -0400 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnbMq-0003YW-8j for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:17:41 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.31538947; Mon, 14 May 2007 10:17:15 -0400 Message-ID: <46486F6D.6060602@innovationslab.net> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:17:17 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: <20070511023445.A06631C063@coconut.itojun.org> <2798093A-26A1-4120-947E-D3D76A67D24D@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <2798093A-26A1-4120-947E-D3D76A67D24D@ca.afilias.info> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:27:31 -0400 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Joe Abley wrote: > > Personally, however, I still think deprecation is the correct option. > Speaking strictly as a work group participant, I agree with Joe that the best way forward is to deprecate the Type 0 Routing Header. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 14 16:27:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnh8o-0000e1-2K; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:27:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hngu6-0003zA-LP for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:22 -0400 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hngu5-0003lb-FG for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:22 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.31570333; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4648C294.6090600@innovationslab.net> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:04 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: <464883F7.4090906@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:27:31 -0400 Cc: Bob Hinden Subject: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org IPv6 WG, The chairs have reviewed all the comments and feedback on the Routing Header Type 0 vulnerability. The consensus of the working group is seen as: - Deprecate the Type 0 Routing Header - Provide guidance to operators to disable RH0 where possible As a part of the deprecation, implementations should return an ICMP parameter problem message to the packet source. The chairs request that the authors of the two two drafts currently published discussing the RH0 issue (draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00.txt and draft-savola-ipv6-rtheader-00.txt) combine them and publish a single draft as an IPv6 w.g. document. Please make any issues/problems you may have with this approach known to either the mailing list or the chairs directly. Regards, Bob and Brian IPv6 WG co-chairs -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From amveridicpi@hazeleger.nl Mon May 14 21:41:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnm2x-0007ta-Bd; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:41:51 -0400 Received: from [222.253.158.185] (helo=hazeleger.nl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnm2v-00010a-SQ; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:41:51 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Molly Harperbt" From: "Molly Harperbt" To: , , , Subject: by controls Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 08:41:45 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906


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deal on virtual reality is and = I told him, more or less, that it will provide invaluable clues to the futu= re. Eventually we are for scientific purposes can be quite aesthetically p= leasing. Currently the effects of technology is apparent to all of us;
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Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnsdl-0006rx-FZ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 15 May 2007 04:44:17 -0400 Received: from [88.254.115.75] (helo=[88.254.115.75]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hnsdj-00012e-IL for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 15 May 2007 04:44:17 -0400 Received: from ingiliz01 by always-pussy.de with ASMTP id 7193BB90 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 11:44:53 +0300 Received: from ingiliz01 ([171.166.54.125]) by always-pussy.de with ESMTP id 2D82F1874DED for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 11:44:53 +0300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:44:14 +0300 From: "ryn Chiarot" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Rise symbol report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9636/85105531np6.png Degree greater area smaller comes. 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Ptolemy made it his kingdom, and left it, at his death, showers, and the quantity of the rain which will fall, in the various From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 04:06:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoEWB-0005OG-H9; Wed, 16 May 2007 04:05:55 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoEW9-0005KP-5E for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 04:05:53 -0400 Received: from ns2.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.67] helo=mx2.its.eads.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoEW6-00076l-O1 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 04:05:53 -0400 Received: from fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.34]) by mx2.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Wed, 16 May 2007 10:03:26 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 16 May 2007 10:08:44 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.99] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZMMPT; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:05:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:05:55 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Routing Header Type 0 way forward Thread-Index: AceXkQf9PouMYt/uTHuL5dktQq4TKQ== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "IETF IPv6 Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2007 08:08:44.0414 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C2AB9E0:01C79791] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Le 14 mai 07 =E0 22:12, Brian Haberman a =E9crit : > Please make any issues/problems you may have with this approach > known to either the mailing list or the chairs directly. The following point is being discussed off-list and there is =20 certainly interest in having a clear statement on the topic in the =20 deprecation document. In current IPv6 stacks, RH0 deprecation can be made by progressively =20 removing the code for processing it or by simply deactivating it. =20 Some systems currently keep the ability to activate it again (through =20 sysctl or equivalent). Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: =20 "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not =20 provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." Cheers, a+ -- Arnaud Ebalard EADS Innovation Works - IT Sec Research Engineer PGP KeyID:047A5026 FingerPrint:47EB85FEB99AAB85FD0946F30255957C047A5026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 06:52:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoH6R-0004No-6N; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:51:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoH6Q-0004Ng-6Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:51:30 -0400 Received: from [2001:1af8:2:5::2] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoH6P-0002g7-Tz for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:51:30 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GAoLpa030088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 12:50:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:51:21 +0200 To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: Bob Hinden , Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 10:05, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: > Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: > "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not > provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." This is a very bad idea for two reasons: 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards making 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able to do so if they want This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem solved, bring on the next one. If, at some later date, it turns out nobody uses this feature, rip it out of the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. But please, let's not overreact. Compared to what we had to go through with directed broadcast amplification (smurf attack), this isn't much of an issue at all, even if you ignore that IPv6 uptake isn't above 0 in a statistically significant way yet. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:01:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHGN-0001nP-5r; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:01:47 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHGL-0001nK-IW for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:01:45 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHGK-0004nj-2b for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:01:45 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id DF5861C065; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:01:39 +0900 (JST) To: iljitsch@muada.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 12:51:21 +0200" <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> References: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:01:39 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, brian@innovationslab.net, bob.hinden@nokia.com, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > On 16-mei-2007, at 10:05, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: > > > Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: > > "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not > > provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." > > This is a very bad idea for two reasons: > > 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having > something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards > making > > 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able > to do so if they want how many times do i have to post this: there's ZERO RFCs that use rthdr0. nuke it immediately for the sake of world peace. as the firm believer of running code (not the spec), i urge you to look at http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/rthdr0.diff.txt and check out the comments. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:06:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHKk-0004rC-Tk; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:06:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHKj-0004r7-AT for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:06:17 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHKi-0005k9-Qp for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:06:17 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 03B401C066; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:06:15 +0900 (JST) To: iljitsch@muada.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 20:01:39 +0900 (JST)" <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070516110616.03B401C066@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:06:15 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > > Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: > > > "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not > > > provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." > > > > This is a very bad idea for two reasons: > > > > 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having > > something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards > > making > > > > 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able > > to do so if they want > > how many times do i have to post this: there's ZERO RFCs that use > rthdr0. nuke it immediately for the sake of world peace. > > as the firm believer of running code (not the spec), i urge you to > look at http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/rthdr0.diff.txt > and check out the comments. as posted earlier, i cannot really sleep tight until the very last machine on the planet get patched. root DNS servers as well as all trans-ocean links (both IPv4 and IPv6) are at stake. if this does not scare you enough, quit your job immediately. itojun PS: no need for "go to bed" DoS. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:23:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHb3-0006QJ-SY; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:23:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHb2-0006QE-VQ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:23:08 -0400 Received: from [2001:1af8:2:5::2] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHb1-0002bt-Ik for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:23:08 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GBLweB030640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 13:21:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2B7B8ABF-1EAB-4C09-A83E-894A1DEE023F@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:22:57 +0200 To: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, brian@innovationslab.net, bob.hinden@nokia.com, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 13:01, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: >> 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able >> to do so if they want > how many times do i have to post this: there's ZERO RFCs that use > rthdr0. Since when is it required to write an RFC before you get to use a feature? Arnaud's little test program certainly used this feature and I haven't seen an RFC for it. > as the firm believer of running code (not the spec), i urge you to > look at http://www.kame.net/newsletter/20070502/rthdr0.diff.txt > and check out the comments. I still don't get the point of what you're trying to say. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:30:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHhm-00020l-9p; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:30:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHhk-0001sV-D0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:30:04 -0400 Received: from [2001:1af8:2:5::2] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHhk-0004yJ-1A for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:30:04 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GBSvCd030748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 13:28:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <20070516110616.03B401C066@coconut.itojun.org> References: <20070516110139.DF5861C065@coconut.itojun.org> <20070516110616.03B401C066@coconut.itojun.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <12285507-7D9C-4065-B89C-49011F0C2BCC@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:29:58 +0200 To: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 13:06, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: > as posted earlier, i cannot really sleep tight until the very last > machine on the planet get patched. root DNS servers as well as all > trans-ocean links (both IPv4 and IPv6) are at stake. if this does > not > scare you enough, quit your job immediately. Well, obviously you can't be serious, but I also don't get the joke. The whole root server thing is nonsense. The only thing you can do is address your packet at an anycast instance other than the one you would normally be able to reach. Big deal. And oh, wait... the root servers aren't available over IPv6 yet! I know some have IPv6 addresses but those can't be used for production queries until IPv6 addresses are added to "the dot". As for intercontinental links: as an ISP, I wouldn't mind my customers ping-ponging the same packet back and forth: this uses more bandwidth, so I make more money. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:32:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHjo-0003i4-8K; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:32:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHjm-0003hz-VE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:32:10 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoHjm-0005RJ-Gd for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:32:10 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id D34BD1C066; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:32:08 +0900 (JST) To: iljitsch@muada.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 13:29:58 +0200" <12285507-7D9C-4065-B89C-49011F0C2BCC@muada.com> References: <12285507-7D9C-4065-B89C-49011F0C2BCC@muada.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070516113208.D34BD1C066@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:32:08 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > as posted earlier, i cannot really sleep tight until the very last > > machine on the planet get patched. root DNS servers as well as all > > trans-ocean links (both IPv4 and IPv6) are at stake. if this does > > not > > scare you enough, quit your job immediately. > > Well, obviously you can't be serious, but I also don't get the joke. i'm not joking. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 07:49:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoI0k-0005C3-01; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:49:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoI0i-0005Bx-VK for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:49:40 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoI0h-0002JU-LJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:49:40 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 May 2007 13:49:39 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4GBnchX017655; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:49:38 +0200 Received: from gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com (gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com [64.103.70.176]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4GBnNDR001375; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:49:30 GMT Received: from gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4GBnN9P008151; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:49:23 +0100 Received: (from otroan@localhost) by gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l4GBnCMA008143; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:49:12 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com: otroan set sender to ot@cisco.com using -f From: Ole Troan To: Iljitsch van Beijnum References: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:49:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> (Iljitsch van Beijnum's message of "Wed\, 16 May 2007 12\:51\:21 +0200") Message-ID: <7t5r6phaszr.fsf@gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1280; t=1179316178; x=1180180178; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ot@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ole=20Troan=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Routing=20Header=20Type=200=20way=20forward |Sender:=20; bh=DaoZPj0hhIIfpuaLKCeNk29lumoX9c0sRShC23c5CW4=; b=IxijjXDAsjA1GCGuduux58TcbKf7GdImdLxTNwJPfACP5EKw3GowpNmtL1lnkMfZDJ8Wa6IO 7mZ1EFQLvjaaVhoI+W5/6gtbokCcbS3JG5PNVvrNr93RZRhdrydZTrSX; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=ot@cisco.com; dkim=pass (sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , Pekka Savola , "Ebalard, Arnaud" Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org >> Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: >> "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not >> provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." > > This is a very bad idea for two reasons: > > 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having > something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards > making > > 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able to > do so if they want > > This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should > not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should > disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem > solved, bring on the next one. > > If, at some later date, it turns out nobody uses this feature, rip it > out of the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. But please, let's not > overreact. Compared to what we had to go through with directed > broadcast amplification (smurf attack), this isn't much of an issue > at all, even if you ignore that IPv6 uptake isn't above 0 in a > statistically significant way yet. I'm with Iljitsch on this one. this thread has provided high "entertainment value", but I think the IPv6 list has had enough of this now. /ot -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 08:08:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoIIg-0008FR-4B; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:08:14 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoIIf-0008FJ-C4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:08:13 -0400 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoIIe-0003L4-5X for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:08:13 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z6so562744nzd for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:08:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=uoJijalOmS2HKP5G9hSpjqQVHx/MbJpebifkqaPqagMXjR+RLxcwobw1TSinkFkzEl8C3D53zI8LGQ9ttfPrDT9sgI/2SSu1XMOg15jmmp0m8jWfPmQPqs+x4GQ0cDK86eePpqy3Kr5Shk69+Q0kg6GOu+iZDBd0p6YCzdiyVBY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=MbscGcDX4uud3YXq8jPSrUa07KmC7nPoT8aiWD1TguBNPaM7lFLaRyLSzlcmUKpfA7K9zvVk2qpLzQJT4HT4UUYVG+PyP/V3QRPGmMZ8piSdxjzVMKT93u6ixFTGq2lYf6E/piG2p3eTYDzC4xPpsU2PYAGGgJ9zBcZTs4PTk/s= Received: by 10.115.95.1 with SMTP id x1mr2124541wal.1179317291501; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705160508rf132700ja114c8757d7725af@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:38:11 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: ipv6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Subject: draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I noticed the draft and saw the use of the term amplification attacks with respect to IPv6 Type0 Routing header. I had brought up the issue as well as used the term way back in January 2006. http://psg.com/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2006/msg00001.html . It was later incorporated in the "IPv6 security draft" by Elwyn/ Pekka/ Suresh. It would be great if the attack is mentioned in the new draft too due acknowledgements are given (if no past references of the same are known). Thanks, Vishwas -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 08:18:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoISo-0007hT-Hq; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:18:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoISm-0007bD-U2; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:18:40 -0400 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoISm-0007GS-Jk; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:18:40 -0400 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D96305EC; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:18:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Pars Mutaf To: int-area@lists.ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:18:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1179317908.5004.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: Subject: Private Information Queries (PIQ) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org [sorry for cross-posting] Hello, FYI the following I-D suggests replacing the phone book for cellular phones, with an end-to-end approach (cell phone number is requested from the target cell phone). http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mutaf-piqproblem-01.txt -Problem statement probably done (Section 1), -Abstract solution done, -There is also some new discussion on bootstrapping IKE using PIQ. Comments are welcome to the int-area ML. Thanks pars mutaf -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 08:59:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJ5s-0000iY-Qg; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:59:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJ5q-0000iQ-RF for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:59:02 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJ5p-0007pw-IE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:59:02 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1BF11429; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , Pekka Savola , "Ebalard, Arnaud" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 12:49:12 +0100." <7t5r6phaszr.fsf@gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com> References: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> <7t5r6phaszr.fsf@gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:59:01 +0000 Message-ID: <74667.1179320341@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > >> Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: > >> "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not > >> provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." > > > > This is a very bad idea for two reasons: i disagree with both, as shown below. > > 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having something > > else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards making we're going to have to amend the standard, to deprecate this feature. the bit pattern should be treated as unrecognized by all conformant implementations of the amended specification. there is no conflict here. > > 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able to > > do so if they want then let's define a new bit pattern that means what RH0 used to mean, make it experimental, and require that it be off by default on all conformant implementations of the new specification. > > This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should > > not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should > > disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem > > solved, bring on the next one. that won't solve this problem. (and those are not the problems with RH0.) > > If, at some later date, it turns out nobody uses this feature, rip it > > out of the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. this is the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. we're ripping it out $now. > > But please, let's not overreact. Compared to what we had to go through > > with directed broadcast amplification (smurf attack), this isn't much of > > an issue at all, even if you ignore that IPv6 uptake isn't above 0 in a > > statistically significant way yet. current deployment is only a percentile or so of what i'm worried about. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 09:51:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJtr-0000XS-Sv; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:50:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJtq-0000XM-Fy for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:50:42 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoJtp-0007IK-53 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:50:42 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GDmGWf033565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 15:48:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <74667.1179320341@sa.vix.com> References: <20070B4A-0760-4594-B8BE-458B1739442D@muada.com> <7t5r6phaszr.fsf@gpk-xdm-001.cisco.com> <74667.1179320341@sa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:49:17 +0200 To: Paul Vixie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Bob Hinden , Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola , "Ebalard, Arnaud" Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 14:59, Paul Vixie wrote: >>> This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should >>> not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should >>> disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem >>> solved, bring on the next one. > that won't solve this problem. (and those are not the problems > with RH0.) Why not and what are the problems with RH0 then? > current deployment is only a percentile or so of what i'm worried > about. What are you worried about? -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 10:38:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKeH-0004n8-ED; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:38:41 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKeG-0004n3-NV for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:38:40 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKeF-00039V-Dw for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:38:40 -0400 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=[172.16.127.21]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HoKgs-000Hz8-4E; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:41:22 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <098D6A2B-13C3-4C2E-BD31-5978662C8BF8@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:38:09 -0400 To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , Pekka Savola , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-May-2007, at 04:05, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: > Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: > "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not > provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." I think this is inherent in the whole concept of deprecation, and the normative MUST NOT with respect to originating or processing packets with RH0. I do not propose to add this text to the draft before I submit it (although if the working group demonstrates consensus that such text should be added, I will not stand in its way). Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 10:51:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKqs-0006cx-9f; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:51:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKqr-0006a4-7k for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:51:41 -0400 Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.46]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoKqo-0006W8-Kb for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:51:41 -0400 Received: from vms124.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI500MGN2LHPCD5@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:51:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms124.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:51:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: "Ebalard, Arnaud" , Iljitsch van Beijnum Message-id: <13646930.5082931179327077243.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Cc: Bob Hinden , Brian Haberman , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Iljitsch/all, >On 16-mei-2007, at 10:05, Ebalard, Arnaud wrote: > >> Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: >> "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not >> provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." > >This is a very bad idea for two reasons: > >1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having >something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards >making That a spec says something which (upon further reflection of working group members and others) is bad is not seemingly a valid reason to keep saying it. That said, the point of the two extant drafts on the RH0 subject (to be combined as one) is to update the IPv6 spec. Since the draft (if approved) would officially deprecate the use of RH0, that is what compliant implementations would do. The MUST in the base spec would (for lack of a better term) be superseded by the "MUST NOT" in the draft. > >2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able >to do so if they want Given the dangers associated with RH0, the possibility that there would be a "legitimate use" of it seems to be precluded. > >This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should >not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should >disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem >solved, bring on the next one. Not really solved by simply disabling. Implicit in disabling something by default is: *that there is something sufficiently bad about it which precludes its use (at least in the general case) *that there could be a legitimate (corner?) use case for which its use is valid *that it therefore can be subsequently enabled Respectfully, I don't think I've seen a convincing enough case for RH0 use. It seems at most to be a "nice-to-have", yet in no case IMO is it a "got-to-have" (especially given the dangers associated with it). > >If, at some later date, it turns out nobody uses this feature, rip it >out of the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. It seems there is both a sufficient lack of use of this feature and sufficient evidence and consensus that it ought not be used to justify its (de facto) removal via approval of the draft. I would think the next iteration of the IPv6 spec would reflect this. But please, let's not >overreact. Compared to what we had to go through with directed >broadcast amplification (smurf attack), this isn't much of an issue >at all, even if you ignore that IPv6 uptake isn't above 0 in a >statistically significant way yet. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 11:12:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLB5-0004RV-8E; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:12:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLB4-0004RQ-Fq for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:12:34 -0400 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLB3-0004Ip-7U for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:12:34 -0400 Received: from vms124.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI5001TV3KMEUD8@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:12:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms124.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:12:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:12:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Iljitsch van Beijnum , "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" Message-id: <11699533.5095311179328342362.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, brian@innovationslab.net, ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, Arnaud.Ebalard@eads.net Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org >As for intercontinental links: as an ISP, I wouldn't mind my >customers ping-ponging the same packet back and forth: this uses more >bandwidth, so I make more money. Given the potential for degradation of service (if not outright DoS) via a sufficient # of ping-ponged packets (bw loss), the potential of said ISP not making its SLA with customers increases. If enough SLAs are missed over a long enough period of time, this would seem to result in an ISP losing money because some affected customers would go to another carrier (and potentially file suit for breach of contract). > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 11:16:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLEW-000685-Do; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:16:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLEV-00067w-0x for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:16:07 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLEL-0004xg-Kb for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:16:07 -0400 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=[172.16.127.21]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HoLH0-000IFK-5D; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:18:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705160508rf132700ja114c8757d7725af@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705160508rf132700ja114c8757d7725af@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:15:30 -0400 To: Vishwas Manral X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-May-2007, at 08:08, Vishwas Manral wrote: > I noticed the draft and saw the use of the term amplification attacks > with respect to IPv6 Type0 Routing header. > > I had brought up the issue as well as used the term way back in > January 2006. > http://psg.com/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2006/msg00001.html . It was later > incorporated in the "IPv6 security draft" by Elwyn/ Pekka/ Suresh. It > would be great if the attack is mentioned in the new draft too due > acknowledgements are given (if no past references of the same are > known). I added a reference to the ipv6 security draft. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 11:17:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLFv-0007ft-Df; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:17:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLFt-0007fY-Rn for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:17:34 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLFr-0005Hw-IF for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:17:33 -0400 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=[172.16.127.21]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HoLIV-000IGA-MX; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:20:16 +0000 In-Reply-To: <4648C294.6090600@innovationslab.net> References: <464883F7.4090906@innovationslab.net> <4648C294.6090600@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:17:03 -0400 To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: Bob Hinden , ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 14-May-2007, at 16:12, Brian Haberman wrote: > The chairs request that the authors of the two two drafts > currently > published discussing the RH0 issue (draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is- > evil-00.txt > and draft-savola-ipv6-rtheader-00.txt) combine them and publish a > single > draft as an IPv6 w.g. document. Our initial merge has been completed, and the resulting document has been submitted. The document should appear in the I-D repository in due course. Those who would like a sneak preview can look here: http://www.flapdoodle.org/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 11:38:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLZl-0003qA-QX; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:38:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLZj-0003mp-RJ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:38:03 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLZj-0002As-BO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:38:03 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GFZc1U035851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 17:35:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <13646930.5082931179327077243.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> References: <13646930.5082931179327077243.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0026CC97-6D44-463B-993F-2631EA5F54E7@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:36:39 +0200 To: Tim Enos X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 16:51, Tim Enos wrote: >>> Should (can) something like the following be added to the draft ?: >>> "Conformant implementations of IPv6 hosts and routers MUST not >>> provide a way to activate RH0 processing on the system." >> This is a very bad idea for two reasons: >> 1. The IPv6 spec says that you MUST implement it, then having >> something else say you MUST NOT actually use it is just bad standards >> making > That a spec says something which (upon further reflection of > working group members and others) is bad is not seemingly a valid > reason to keep saying it. > That said, the point of the two extant drafts on the RH0 subject > (to be combined as one) is to update the IPv6 spec. I don't think forbidding people from implementing RH0 is warranted. And having two RFCs, one that says you MUST implement it and another that you MUST NOT, is BAD. The proper way to do this is to write a new IPv6 specification where RH0 is absent. > Since the draft (if approved) would officially deprecate the use of > RH0, that is what compliant implementations would do. No. Do we have an official IETF definition of "deprecate"? In my book, this means that a feature is considered not useful and should not be implemented or used. That's a different thing than saying all complying implementations are prohibited from implementing or using something. >> 2. Maybe someone has a legitimate use for this, they should be able >> to do so if they want > Given the dangers associated with RH0, There are countries in this world where (almost) any idiot can go into a store and buy a gun. There are dangers associated with that. Having RH0 enabled the way it is currently is an inconvenience; this feature in and of itself poses no danger. The firewall issue is immaterial: firewalls should filter properly. The DNS anycast issue is immaterial: there is no danger in being able to send packets to an unexpected anycast instance. The only real issue is the DoS amplification issue. However, it seems that few people realize that this can only happen in badly configured networks: in order for the amplification to happen, a packet must ping-pong between two nodes without source address validation (ingress filtering) on the intermediate links, or if there is a source address validation, the source address is valid in each direction. With proper ingress filtering, a source address can never be valid in both directions. So either the A and B nodes that the packet flows between are both in the same AS, or at least one of them doesn't implement proper ingress filters. In the former case, they should disable source routing. In the latter case, they should enable ingress filtering. In both cases, that's something that can be implemented within the AS that suffers from the abusive traffic, so whenever this problem occurs, it will be dealt with swiftly. The argument that ingress filtering isn't possible doesn't apply, because no equipment is both old enough that it can't perform simple filtering and new enough that it can run IPv6. >> This whole issue is blown WAY out of proportion: the BSD guys should >> not forward when forwarding is disabled, the router guys should >> disable source routing by default (for IPv4, too, please). Problem >> solved, bring on the next one. > Not really solved by simply disabling. If you disable source routing, there won't be any source routing. How does this leave the problem unsolved??? > Implicit in disabling something by default is: > *that there is something sufficiently bad about it which precludes > its use (at least in the general case) > *that there could be a legitimate (corner?) use case for which its > use is valid > *that it therefore can be subsequently enabled Right. So disable it by default, let people enable it if they want to. > Respectfully, I don't think I've seen a convincing enough case for > RH0 use. Yes, and as soon as you are elected the first president of the world you get to make decisions about what's good for the entire world's population. People are old and wise to make their own decisions. >> If, at some later date, it turns out nobody uses this feature, rip it >> out of the next iteration of the IPv6 spec. > It seems there is both a sufficient lack of use of this feature and > sufficient evidence and consensus that it ought not be used to > justify its (de facto) removal via approval of the draft. I would > think the next iteration of the IPv6 spec would reflect this. Changing the IP specification is something we should think long and hard about, and we tend to do that every time we do. Taking a few weeks to decide to forbid people from using a feature that has been available for a decade is not good standards making. Brian and Bob made the right call, let's do what they suggest and not stumble over our own feet for the sake of being seen addressing "security" issues. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 11:40:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLcA-0006oO-NT; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:40:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLc9-0006oB-9R for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:40:33 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoLc7-0002mF-UF for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:40:33 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4GFc8Sc035909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 May 2007 17:38:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: References: <464883F7.4090906@innovationslab.net> <4648C294.6090600@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <786DFE64-62AE-4EC5-BFD7-376163B9DEE5@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:39:09 +0200 To: Joe Abley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Routing Header Type 0 way forward X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-mei-2007, at 17:17, Joe Abley wrote: > http://www.flapdoodle.org/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt I object to the use of the word "security". More later. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 15:50:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoPVj-0008W1-CI; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:11 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoPVa-00086G-U3; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoPVa-0002fX-Kn; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704B226EA1; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HoPVa-0006Bd-AB; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 Author(s) : J. Abley, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2007-5-16 The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in the light of these security concerns. This document updates RFC 2460. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-5-16111424.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-5-16111424.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --NextPart-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 17:01:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQcv-0003nT-99; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:01:41 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQct-0003nL-V0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:01:39 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.171] helo=mgw-ext12.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQcs-0006BO-EV for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:01:39 -0400 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext12.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4GL1Gbk016556 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:36 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:33 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:33 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:33 +0300 Received: from [172.19.74.211] (dadhcp-172019074211.americas.nokia.com [172.19.74.211]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4GL1U7l000791 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:31 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <98E9CB2C-43DB-450E-BDCD-8E20A5383E0D@nokia.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bob Hinden Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:01:35 -0700 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2007 21:01:33.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[6237C290:01C797FD] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Subject: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Not sure why this hasn't gotten to the list yet, but here it is again. Bob Begin forwarded message: > From: "ext i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org" bounces@ietf.org> > Date: May 16, 2007 12:50:02 PM PDT > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working > Group of the IETF. > > Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 > Author(s) : J. Abley, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2007-5-16 > > > The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be > exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass > firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of > generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the > IPv6 > specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing > Headers, in > > the light of these security concerns. > > This document updates RFC 2460. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate- > rh0-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-ID: <2007-5-16111424.I-D@ietf.org> > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 17:03:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQez-0004Oi-Sz; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQey-0004KA-CH for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:48 -0400 Received: from atlrel6.hp.com ([156.153.255.205]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoQex-0006S0-4m for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:48 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fc.hp.com (smtp.fc.hp.com [15.15.136.127]) by atlrel6.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42323449E for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [16.116.113.226] (galen.zko.hp.com [16.116.113.226]) by smtp1.fc.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3063F13F4D0; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:03:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:45 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 routing header? Thanks -vlad -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 18:09:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoRgf-0005g9-CE; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:09:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoRgd-0005ea-Px for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:09:35 -0400 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoRgd-0005xy-F0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:09:35 -0400 Received: from vms124.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI5008JOMVYXTA0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:09:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms124.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:09:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:09:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Message-id: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d95a152022472c7d6cdf886a0424dc6 Cc: Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bob/all, Having read the new draft, I think it is a great first pass. The References used are IMO both thorough and relevant. In section 4.1, IMO it would seem good to see an example each of what RH0 uses [a]would and [b]would not be mitigated via BCP 38/84 implementation. In section 4.2, IMO it would seem good to see a brief justification of the statement: "filtering based on the presence of any Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, regardless of type, is strongly discouraged." (FWIW I absolutely concur). Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 >Not sure why this hasn't gotten to the list yet, but here it is again. > >Bob > > >Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "ext i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org" > bounces@ietf.org> >> Date: May 16, 2007 12:50:02 PM PDT >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org >> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt >> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working >> Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 >> Author(s) : J. Abley, et al. >> Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt >> Pages : 7 >> Date : 2007-5-16 >> >> >> The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be >> exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass >> firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of >> generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the >> IPv6 >> specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing >> Headers, in >> >> the light of these security concerns. >> >> This document updates RFC 2460. >> >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate- >> rh0-00.txt >> >> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of >> the message. >> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> to change your subscription settings. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". >> >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> >> Send a message to: >> mailserv@ietf.org. >> In the body type: >> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". >> >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. >> Content-Type: text/plain >> Content-ID: <2007-5-16111424.I-D@ietf.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >ipv6@ietf.org >Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >-------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dillonvale5@b4net.lt Wed May 16 18:12:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoRje-0000Cm-TB for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:12:42 -0400 Received: from nat.b4net.lt ([213.190.46.52]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoRjd-0006Tb-Ep for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c79820$98498940$0688972c@saraab296acb1a> From: "Art Poole" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Of goldbond at curryville Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:13:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 COPI.OB IS GETTING READY TO MAKE A RUN FOR THE TOP! 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There was an name Physcon, which afterward became his historical designation, was From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 18:55:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoSOg-0004Ja-DE; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:55:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoSOf-0004JV-E4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:55:05 -0400 Received: from smtp127.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.127]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoSOf-0007n2-1W for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:55:05 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-164-14-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.164.14.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dow.street@linquest.com) by relay2.r2.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 302D544C0EE; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:55:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dow Street Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:54:48 -0700 To: Tim Enos X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and would favor the "disable by default" option instead. Underlying this debate seems to be the question of whether *any* form of source routing is ok / worthwhile. I'm curious how much of the RH0 FUD is actually related to the question of control. While a significant move to source routing is likely to impact the (economic) status quo, I don't think that means all investigation of a new capability should be taken off the table. It may not be the mechanism itself that is the inherent problem, but rather the operational use model. In this case, disabling by default and filtering when RH0 is turned on allows for careful investigation and experimentation of different use models. Killing the mechanism outright does not. If we decide that certain behaviors have no beneficial use, we can modify behavior for the RH0 later (hard-code some limits for RH0 use). We could also add a new RH type, and deprecate RH0 then. However, if we jump to deprecate RH0 now, without any plan to re- introduce some general source routing capability in IPv6, I can see a significant uphill battle for adding source routing functionality later. "remember how dangerous source routing is?!" R, Dow On May 16, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Tim Enos wrote: > Hi Bob/all, > > Having read the new draft, I think it is a great first pass. The > References used are IMO both thorough and relevant. > > In section 4.1, IMO it would seem good to see an example each of > what RH0 uses [a]would and [b]would not be mitigated via BCP 38/84 > implementation. > > In section 4.2, IMO it would seem good to see a brief justification > of the statement: "filtering based on the presence of any > Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, regardless of type, is strongly > discouraged." (FWIW I absolutely concur). > > Best Regards, > > Tim Enos > Rom 8:28 > >> Not sure why this hasn't gotten to the list yet, but here it is >> again. >> >> Bob >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "ext i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org" >> bounces@ietf.org> >>> Date: May 16, 2007 12:50:02 PM PDT >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org >>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt >>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working >>> Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 >>> Author(s) : J. Abley, et al. >>> Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt >>> Pages : 7 >>> Date : 2007-5-16 >>> >>> >>> The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be >>> exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass >>> firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of >>> generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the >>> IPv6 >>> specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing >>> Headers, in >>> >>> the light of these security concerns. >>> >>> This document updates RFC 2460. >>> >>> >>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate- >>> rh0-00.txt >>> >>> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >>> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the >>> body of >>> the message. >>> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D- >>> announce >>> to change your subscription settings. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >>> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >>> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >>> "get draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". >>> >>> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >>> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>> >>> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >>> >>> Send a message to: >>> mailserv@ietf.org. >>> In the body type: >>> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt". >>> >>> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >>> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >>> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >>> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >>> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail >>> readers >>> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >>> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >>> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >>> how to manipulate these messages. >>> >>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >>> Internet-Draft. >>> Content-Type: text/plain >>> Content-ID: <2007-5-16111424.I-D@ietf.org> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> I-D-Announce mailing list >>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From birkham@insidethesheraton.com Wed May 16 20:19:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoTi6-0008FR-IT for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:19:14 -0400 Received: from [190.24.208.21] (helo=TERMINAL) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoTi4-0007PU-Fu for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:19:14 -0400 To: "thomasin winne" Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:19:09 -0500 From: "nat nico" Sender: "nat nico" Subject: Confirmation link MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_EB29_01C797EE.F60EE390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_EB29_01C797EE.F60EE390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for your loan request, which we recieved yesterday. 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------=_NextPart_000_EB29_01C797EE.F60EE390-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 20:30:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoTtF-0006Os-A4; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:30:45 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoTtD-0006On-RO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:30:44 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoTtD-0001Ny-CO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:30:43 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id EEA8E1C064; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:40 +0900 (JST) To: bob.hinden@nokia.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 14:01:35 -0700" <98E9CB2C-43DB-450E-BDCD-8E20A5383E0D@nokia.com> References: <98E9CB2C-43DB-450E-BDCD-8E20A5383E0D@nokia.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517003040.EEA8E1C064@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30:40 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > Not sure why this hasn't gotten to the list yet, but here it is again. > > > > Title : Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 > > Author(s) : J. Abley, et al. > > Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt > > Pages : 7 > > Date : 2007-5-16 it is a good one. it would be a "successful failure" of IPv6 just like Apollo 13. comments: - on filtering you may want to talk about tunnelling and stuff (yes, i know it would cost A LOT). - if script kiddies have a good idea about MIP6, they could workaround ingress filtering by spoofing souce addr - ISP core routers really cannot perform ingress filtering due to the frequent updates in BGP routing table at the peering routers. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 21:30:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoUoh-0002qt-PZ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:30:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoUog-0002qo-To for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:30:06 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoUof-0000S8-Jw for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:30:06 -0400 Received: from yxu1b29.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.29]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HoUrG-000NqB-JE; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:32:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:34 -0400 To: Dow Street X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-May-2007, at 18:54, Dow Street wrote: > It may not be the mechanism itself that is the inherent problem, > but rather the operational use model. In this case, disabling by > default and filtering when RH0 is turned on allows for careful > investigation and experimentation of different use models. Killing > the mechanism outright does not. There is an argument that the right approach to facilitate source routing experiments is to deprecate RH0, and define a new type of routing header which is, from the outset, disabled by default. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 22:11:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVSN-0005Ze-8d; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:11:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVSL-0005WX-9P for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:11:05 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVSK-0005u2-1o for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:11:05 -0400 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3135511426; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:11:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:34 -0400." <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:11:03 +0000 Message-ID: <68015.1179367863@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > There is an argument that the right approach to facilitate source routing > experiments is to deprecate RH0, and define a new type of routing header > which is, from the outset, disabled by default. yes please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 22:13:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVUU-0006cn-5H; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:13:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVUS-0006ci-5d for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:13:16 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoVUP-0006Kc-Qe for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:13:16 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4H2AltY045845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:10:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:47 +0200 To: Joe Abley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 17-mei-2007, at 3:29, Joe Abley wrote: > There is an argument that the right approach to facilitate source > routing experiments is to deprecate RH0, and define a new type of > routing header which is, from the outset, disabled by default. Please present this argument; it's not self-evident. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 23:01:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWFF-0006P3-6D; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:01:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWFE-0006Oy-0U for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:01:36 -0400 Received: from imap.countersiege.com ([2001:240:581:69::218] helo=smtp1.countersiege.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWFC-0006ay-Kd for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:01:35 -0400 Received: from anchovy.countersiege.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by smtp1.countersiege.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C21192E8; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:01:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by anchovy.countersiege.com (Postfix, from userid 2000) id DC907107FA; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:01:27 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 03:01:27 +0000 From: Ryan McBride To: Dow Street Message-ID: <20070517030126.GL24686@countersiege.com> References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12-2006-07-14 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:54:48PM -0700, Dow Street wrote: > I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and > would favor the "disable by default" option instead. I think the new draft is too soft in it's mitigation approach, and would favour language that more strongly encourages filtering rthdr0 on the forwarding path for all routers. > In this case, disabling by default and filtering when RH0 is turned > on allows for careful investigation and experimentation of different > use models. We've had decades to carefully investigate and expermient with different use models for loose source routing, and the only compelling ones we've discovered are malicious attacks. -Ryan -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 16 23:24:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWbW-0005HN-BV; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:24:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWbU-0005A0-KI for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:24:36 -0400 Received: from imap.countersiege.com ([2001:240:581:69::218] helo=smtp1.countersiege.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoWbU-00050v-8o for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:24:36 -0400 Received: from anchovy.countersiege.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by smtp1.countersiege.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16442192E8; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:24:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by anchovy.countersiege.com (Postfix, from userid 2000) id A61A3107FA; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:24:32 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 03:24:31 +0000 From: Ryan McBride To: Tim Enos Message-ID: <20070517032431.GO24686@countersiege.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12-2006-07-14 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 05:09:34PM -0500, Tim Enos wrote: > In section 4.2, IMO it would seem good to see a brief justification of > the statement: "filtering based on the presence of any > Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, regardless of type, is strongly > discouraged." In this sentence, is "regardless of type" intented to apply to Routing Headers, or IPv6 routers? I'm concerned that this paragraph is getting quoted without the previous part of the sentence: "Where filtering capabilities do not facilitate matching specific types of Routing Headers..." Is that an indication of how it will be interpreted? -Ryan -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 00:34:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXgj-0005sr-Cc; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:34:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXgi-0005sl-8j for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:34:04 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXgg-0004z4-1Z for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:34:04 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c34so116781anc for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:34:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ghcr8GeV67m7qb5O73Zmzpnmv3cGCmhW7fVFonUsk1iXi91tgJoMUJZDcLKBdE2/UkIeZT9BiplcK2WulmLlWEG013qF7DcnC9psRnPesqWjeROaYXlQ5ujweDUrpHPXrEiV6s6N1xywGEZ+W9tltA8G1wB+vhzp+Xy81IZsWdM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aYhbcAeGXY4DDVM2lLH6YdLqSmsYm7EbFXpd311aX2z34N8hGIQlPyLk1aZ7UU48j7VAksyw4DOkeA2+25C9l9d5Sl8NlaiLHkHds+vWe17+pOvtf9DXPsUR2gjJqZ1EtW3zjLc/vjxeUjIuMkAYrnh+e+P5rf/f62HhIsFj/GM= Received: by 10.114.151.13 with SMTP id y13mr2711057wad.1179376441272; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705162134i5e13a8a1w66950412152800e5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:04:01 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Joe Abley" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705160508rf132700ja114c8757d7725af@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Joe, Thanks. I had brought out this amplification attack way back in January of 2006 though without the big RED flags, that is the reason I wanted to own up the responsibility. :)) Thanks again, Vishwas On 5/16/07, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 16-May-2007, at 08:08, Vishwas Manral wrote: > > > I noticed the draft and saw the use of the term amplification attacks > > with respect to IPv6 Type0 Routing header. > > > > I had brought up the issue as well as used the term way back in > > January 2006. > > http://psg.com/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2006/msg00001.html . It was later > > incorporated in the "IPv6 security draft" by Elwyn/ Pekka/ Suresh. It > > would be great if the attack is mentioned in the new draft too due > > acknowledgements are given (if no past references of the same are > > known). > > I added a reference to the ipv6 security draft. > > > Joe > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 00:40:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXmQ-00033q-N5; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:39:58 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXmP-00033i-Bj for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:39:57 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoXmN-0006kq-T4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:39:57 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0A5D61C065; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:39:54 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 May 2007 10:04:01 +0530" <77ead0ec0705162134i5e13a8a1w66950412152800e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705162134i5e13a8a1w66950412152800e5@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517043955.0A5D61C065@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:39:54 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Subject: Re: draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > I added a reference to the ipv6 security draft. > I had brought out this amplification attack way back in January of > 2006 though without the big RED flags, that is the reason I wanted to > own up the responsibility. :)) i've got a comment from IPv6 ready logo team (iirc it is sub-committee of IPv6 forum?) that they would have to start RFC2460 spec NON conformance testing wrt rthdr0. nice! itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 00:54:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY0K-0006Nq-Ry; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:54:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY0J-0006Ni-7D for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:54:19 -0400 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.228]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY0H-0003QJ-TG for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:54:19 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z6so876267nzd for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:54:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=d86UV2Q+ChU5G9+89yqU64SPOeF53wCCz3CMXiE73EdOrbeRrx7Fn3w2j9D/SdwKIzHgZMxdHxZS/FCrjo9+Ysd2e7gbI2t5HOcrw8iqsOVk2wRJ4rj7wwAdBauA7CcWteehlwppFi6CCZ3UwJl4ZsombXWgvgItP/BctKXj9Lw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=knVV3zKsyfgNsE93THFUXbZiu8+lrwgqoU42b7nNNTOxcHO0Jodxn7F2ZxjBus4L8czt2yP8t8f6AY0yX71kBz/BpFRi+zlv92x8VXzqdwsdBzgV4cHc44D5d/ycCVDOGijPdDEOaIC+o8fJkdVS5DUa2ZNqQnEfaZxshvLw1OU= Received: by 10.114.168.1 with SMTP id q1mr2722076wae.1179377657318; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:17 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: ipv6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, At the time of bringing up the amplification attacks i had also brought up the issue of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manral-v6ops-tiny-fragments-issues-02 . I would want to know if this issue needs to looked further by IPv6. Thanks, Vishwas -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 00:57:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY3X-0001KM-TH; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:57:39 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY3V-0001KE-V5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:57:37 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY3V-0003xL-FD for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:57:37 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 101261C065; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:57:36 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:17 +0530" <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:57:36 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > At the time of bringing up the amplification attacks i had also > brought up the issue of > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manral-v6ops-tiny-fragments-issues-02 . > > I would want to know if this issue needs to looked further by IPv6. my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet size must not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for smaller fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). KAME node will not generate such packets/fragments, but KAME node would accept those packets happily. any ideas? itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 01:03:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY8s-00057X-Rr; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:03:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY8r-00055X-FU for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:03:09 -0400 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.230]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoY8q-0006zt-6j for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:03:09 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z6so877948nzd for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:03:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bPcdwtuLhdoaXmYo0zzAXejg8kbY13sGCeQ4EABsFpjgfG8Ab9E9Wg3V09SOkB7bwAt1O8EbFmo/tHGEIfKECsBeeUfqpdi4I7Cuqzvt8DsGnZh8wIz11OfENS3UPkn1YMlNTe5+h9oaMIu/eNgzv0wIpUE518mi6G5PkZW1qFU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uuVrm93e2ECXq/tAug06AYIQZnEI5HbChlaaQP5GCwySmRhAsuZ5fiNiKNAgrvJclLN8uWEH23URZVTJz7cW4xTAvOl1XYwynFg02Ztv1kazAn+k0Qs9Gh1w5W9nzVC8HIV27H3uqcgrp4qOumkbLsYw25boQhoiBZ87nS/E2Ec= Received: by 10.114.145.1 with SMTP id s1mr2733779wad.1179378187612; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705162203t12206077oeeb8f2f4f43831e2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:04 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" In-Reply-To: <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Itojun, I agree to the solution. If we get more people talking about the need for this, we can actually revive the draft. Thanks, Vishwas On 5/17/07, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: > > At the time of bringing up the amplification attacks i had also > > brought up the issue of > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manral-v6ops-tiny-fragments-issues-02 . > > > > I would want to know if this issue needs to looked further by IPv6. > > my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet size must > not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for smaller > fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). > > KAME node will not generate such packets/fragments, but KAME node would > accept those packets happily. > > any ideas? > > itojun > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 02:07:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoZ8K-00048O-4T; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:06:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoZ8J-00048J-FC for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:06:39 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoZ8H-0002Ul-Ut for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:06:39 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id E51E31C067; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:06:31 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:04 +0530" <77ead0ec0705162203t12206077oeeb8f2f4f43831e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705162203t12206077oeeb8f2f4f43831e2@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517060631.E51E31C067@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:06:31 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet size must > > not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for smaller > > fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). > I agree to the solution. If we get more people talking about the need > for this, we can actually revive the draft. thought twice on this topic. for the sake of non-optimal implementation (such as embedded devices) i may want to permit packets > 1200 bytes. but embedded devices are ok to choose outgoing link MTU be 1280, i.e. never generate fragmented packets - you need some control over TCP MSS, need some tricky dance in IPv6 TCP IPsec. KAME IPsec/TCP MSS handling supports such usage, OpenBSD IPsec does not. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dxtclangorous@corddecor.com Thu May 17 02:58:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoZws-0003lZ-DV; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:58:54 -0400 Received: from [59.82.6.184] (helo=corddecor.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoZwo-0001EH-V9; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:58:54 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c79893$e1f5df30$067ddd7c@4D2022D0261F43C> From: Jamal Mullen To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Photoshop CS3 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:58:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C79893.E1F5DF30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3000 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C79893.E1F5DF30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C79893.E1F5DF30" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C79893.E1F5DF30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable technological improvement, the way in which we communicate has prevalent. = Children are using it at a younger age, starting in was a similar craze for= things whose existence was in question, like Autocad and Minicad are doing= to the design field, even the rest of the pact. An academic researcher n= eeds information to produce a cleaner more precise product in a fraction of the time. Presently= we can access and deliver information millions of miles The creative proce= ss is centered in the mind of the artist, like both financial and intellectual are stored in computers, even As an Interio= r Design student I have noted what computer programs disastrous. Even a ge= neral recognmition by society to admit and printer, and graphic artist. Amo= ng many of the other specialty totally computerized, could get the product out much faster than who talk a= lot about terra-forming Mars and making it habitable. Fans of virtual real= ity are trying to convince people that its' leafing, architectural renderin= gs. The shop was small, the projector and then either hand painted or hand = cut out of vinyl case artists will lose their authenticity, however, due to= least in our privileged neck of the woods. Taking this course The age gr= oup that the advancing technology affects th promise, let me discuss some i= ssues that have made me cringe! the system called Tierra, which illustrated= that evolution works just conventional forms. New technology provides capabilities to be shadows, co= lour separating, registration and tilling. Many of the physical technique a= nd expression. I believe that technology is possibly match the tool of thei= r own hands. However, many hallucinogenic narcotics available in the mark= et. People will ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C79893.E1F5DF30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
monumental revelation, but few = seem to acknowledge this fact. It yet to reach its full potential. I can = only imagine what future possible. Much of what I have learned in recent hi= story proves information-processing mechanism. With an artificial system,<= /FONT>
arcade games could be fulfilled= by simply sitting in front of their ancient artifacts on the computer. He= kept a permanent of time that I have been familiar with computers, there a= re some computer technology has yet to offer the contemporary artist.
might be no more than a design = aid. A friend of mine in the forms of information, sound and images for ex= ample, but text is it. Anyone has the capability to access almost anything = from would gather at some spot on the street, sheltered by umbrellas,
how I could use computers in my= art-making process. As it turns it's more trouble than it's worth. I have = been told, however, him/her at many different levels. There needs to be an= awareness children to distinguish between fact and fiction. And so long as=
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[127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoagX-00023D-GW; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:46:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoagW-000238-Kr for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:46:04 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoagV-0006Yt-5u for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:46:04 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 71C521C065; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:46:01 +0900 (JST) to: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:45 -0400" <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517074601.71C521C065@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:46:01 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to > update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 > routing header? we may want to remove references to rthdr0, but section 7 (Routing Header) may be useful for rthdr7 (non-disturbing version of source routing header), so i would say we may want to keep inet6_rth_blah. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 04:55:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoblX-0006kc-N1; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:55:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoblW-0006kX-0B for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:55:18 -0400 Received: from mtagate1.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.134]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HoblU-0000yL-K2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:55:17 -0400 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate1.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4H8tF1Q167772 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:55:15 GMT Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.216]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l4H8tE7p1888296 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:55:14 +0100 Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4H8tDXv027752 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:55:14 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4H8tD0q027717; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:55:13 +0100 Received: from [9.4.210.177] ([9.4.210.177]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA462904; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:55:07 +0200 Message-ID: <464C186C.9010706@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:55:08 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-05-17 03:29, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 16-May-2007, at 18:54, Dow Street wrote: > >> It may not be the mechanism itself that is the inherent problem, but >> rather the operational use model. In this case, disabling by default >> and filtering when RH0 is turned on allows for careful investigation >> and experimentation of different use models. Killing the mechanism >> outright does not. > > There is an argument that the right approach to facilitate source > routing experiments is to deprecate RH0, and define a new type of > routing header which is, from the outset, disabled by default. Either that, or secured against spoofing by default. I wouldn't exclude some sort of secured routing header being proposed for the ongoing Routing and Addressing discussion over on the RAM list, but it surely won't be anything as easy to abuse as RH0. I support the draft. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 09:02:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HofcQ-0006Kp-MC; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:02:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HofcO-0006Kk-TT for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:02:08 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HofcO-0007AL-Dl for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:02:08 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4HD23Sh017819 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:02:03 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4HD23vu017816 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:02:03 +0300 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:02:03 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: ipv6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> Message-ID: References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3264/Wed May 16 23:43:07 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 16 May 2007, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to > update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 > routing header? Dunno about that, but I guess an Updates: 4294 (IPv6 Node Requirements) would be in order. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 09:33:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog6P-0004VI-8F; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog6O-0004TY-9N for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:08 -0400 Received: from atlrel9.hp.com ([156.153.255.214]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog6N-0007uw-0N for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:08 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fc.hp.com (smtp.fc.hp.com [15.15.136.127]) by atlrel9.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1103465A; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [16.116.113.226] (galen.zko.hp.com [16.116.113.226]) by smtp1.fc.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7C813DE51; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:33:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <464C598D.9050801@hp.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:01 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Haberman References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Brian Haberman wrote: > While it would be useful to update 3542, I don't think it is necessary. > It is out-of-date given that it says the Type 0 routing header is the > only one defined (it isn't). However, I don't see the benefit of > revising that spec *just* for this. > > Perhaps we should simply add a statement to the errata page for 3542 > pointing to the deprecation document. That's fine. Just trying to cover all the cases. Thanks -vlad -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 10:03:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HogYw-0001jc-Io; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:02:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HogYv-0001jX-Bg for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:02:37 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HogYt-0005v2-Vf for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:02:37 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HE4A1d032161; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:04:11 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.53]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:02:34 -0500 Received: from [142.133.10.140] ([142.133.10.140]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:02:34 -0500 Message-ID: <464C62DE.9090503@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:12:46 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060313) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> In-Reply-To: <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2007 14:02:34.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[0485CEF0:01C7988C] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: > my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet size must > not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for smaller > fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). I tend to disagree. I do think there are cases where it makes sense to have smaller non-final fragments. One example I can think about right away is that there is a tunnel somewhere between the source and the destination. In this case I would limit myself to a fragment size of less than 1280 to avoid further fragmentation. Cheers Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 10:09:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hogfu-0006Q6-P1; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:09:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hogft-0006Lg-5K for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:09:49 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hogfr-0007I6-RV for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:09:49 -0400 Received: from yxu1b29.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.29]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HogiR-0004UX-MT; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:12:27 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> <67C410FC-5AD0-4BD9-BB7B-EBEE9C23E3DA@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:09:14 -0400 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 16-May-2007, at 22:11, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > On 17-mei-2007, at 3:29, Joe Abley wrote: > >> There is an argument that the right approach to facilitate source >> routing experiments is to deprecate RH0, and define a new type of >> routing header which is, from the outset, disabled by default. > > Please present this argument; it's not self-evident. I agree that was not especially clear. Suppose there are reasons to think that deprecation rather than disable-by-default is the preferred approach. A requirement to continue to provide source-routing functionality akin to RH0 could be satisfied by either abandoning the deprecation approach in favour of disable-by-default, or by defining new types of Routing Header which will facilitate the desired functionality in such a way that will not jeopardise the stability of the network as a whole. If there is actually no requirement to provide source-routing functionality, then this is a non-issue. The remaining assumption is that deprecation rather than disable-by- default is the right thing to do. That is presumably what you are questioning. My point was that a requirement to support RH0-like functionality is not fundamentally incompatible with the deprecation approach. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 11:01:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohTl-0001Ja-R7; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:01:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohTl-0001JV-8K for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:01:21 -0400 Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.48]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohTi-0000kn-CT for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:01:21 -0400 Received: from vms170.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI600LOVXQ39B73@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:01:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms170.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:01:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:01:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Ryan McBride , Dow Street Message-id: <13456932.1804761179414075641.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org >On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:54:48PM -0700, Dow Street wrote: >> I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and >> would favor the "disable by default" option instead. > >I think the new draft is too soft in it's mitigation approach, and would >favour language that more strongly encourages filtering rthdr0 on the >forwarding path for all routers. I think deprecation of RH0 along with BCP 38/84 ingress filtering on the edge would be effective in limiting attacks to internal networks. What to do about intra-site attacks, particularly those using valid source addresses isn't quite as clear to me. Loose RPF would effectively handle attacks using martian addresses as sources, but (as had been correctly pointed out earlier) do nothing to prevent those launched from valid source addresses. It seems to me that filtering RH0 on the forwarding path of all routers could incur some performance penalty (in the form of high CPU utilization concomitant to targeting routers with a sufficiently high # of packets containing RH0). > > >> In this case, disabling by default and filtering when RH0 is turned >> on allows for careful investigation and experimentation of different >> use models. > >We've had decades to carefully investigate and expermient with different >use models for loose source routing, and the only compelling ones we've >discovered are malicious attacks. I agree. IMO there has not been an effective use case presented for RH0 use. If the functionality provided by RH0 is required, I'd support creation of a new routing header (disabled by default). Just my two cents. > >-Ryan Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 11:04:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohWo-0003Or-Pv; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohWn-0003Om-LY for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:29 -0400 Received: from atlrel8.hp.com ([156.153.255.206]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohWm-0001KS-DY for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:29 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fc.hp.com (smtp1.fc.hp.com [15.15.136.127]) by atlrel8.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5ED3442F; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [16.116.113.226] (galen.zko.hp.com [16.116.113.226]) by smtp1.fc.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F67213FE1F; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <464C6EF8.7020801@hp.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:24 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> <20070517074601.71C521C065@coconut.itojun.org> In-Reply-To: <20070517074601.71C521C065@coconut.itojun.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: >> As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to >> update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 >> routing header? > > we may want to remove references to rthdr0, but section 7 (Routing > Header) may be useful for rthdr7 (non-disturbing version of source > routing header), so i would say we may want to keep inet6_rth_blah. Yes, the functions are still valid. To bad the spec was written with Type 0 as example. -vlad > > itojun > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 11:21:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hohml-0007IL-4T; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:20:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hohmk-0007Ga-3X for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:20:58 -0400 Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.46]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hohmi-0003wt-Sa for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:20:58 -0400 Received: from vms170.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JI600M9ZYMKPGMA@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:20:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 129.55.200.20 ([129.55.200.20]) by vms170.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:20:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:20:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Enos X-Originating-IP: [129.55.200.20] To: Ryan McBride , Tim Enos Message-id: <14714403.1807511179415244390.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Ryan, Good point about including the whole sentence; mea culpa! :^\ >On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 05:09:34PM -0500, Tim Enos wrote: >> In section 4.2, IMO it would seem good to see a brief justification of >> the statement: "filtering based on the presence of any >> Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, regardless of type, is strongly >> discouraged." > >In this sentence, is "regardless of type" intented to apply to Routing >Headers, or IPv6 routers? That said, the "regardless of type" ambiguity that you point out isn't any less so when the entire paragraph is read. > >I'm concerned that this paragraph is getting quoted without the previous >part of the sentence: "Where filtering capabilities do not facilitate >matching specific types of Routing Headers..." Is that an indication of >how it will be interpreted? Not on my part. Admittedly my error in not including the previous part of the sentence. Even so, it seems to me that if a router only has the requisite filtering capabilities in software (i.e. without hardware dedicated to the function) its CPU could get pinned. > >-Ryan Best Regards, Tim Enos Rom 8:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 11:22:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohoF-0000iE-Jx; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:22:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohoD-0000i4-N2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:22:29 -0400 Received: from poy.chewa.net ([2002:c2f2:7249::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HohoC-0004AB-EH for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:22:29 -0400 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E9A9674F for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:22:27 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: ipv6@ietf.org Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:22:20 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200705171822.23375@auguste.remlab.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1863356938==" Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --===============1863356938== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1302078.ABhqELZWin"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1302078.ABhqELZWin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le jeudi 17 mai 2007, Vlad Yasevich a =E9crit : > As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to > update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 > routing header? And then: 1/ Are inet6_rth_space() and inet6_rth_init() supposed to fail with=20 type=A00? 2/ What is setsockopt(IPV6_RTHDR) supposed to return for type=A00? =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1302078.ABhqELZWin Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkZMcy8ACgkQw+xtvt1tEr0RXQCg1E120d9FD1z9Ns5WEggs+imR kc0An11V7FI9Bngr9wWqbz3192jC7b50 =p821 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1302078.ABhqELZWin-- --===============1863356938== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --===============1863356938==-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 12:19:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoih0-0007kk-Qp; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:19:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoigy-0007kD-RH for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:19:04 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoigy-0004CF-Bv for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:19:04 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 35E7A1C065; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:19:01 +0900 (JST) To: timbeck04@verizon.net In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 May 2007 10:01:15 -0500 (CDT)" <13456932.1804761179414075641.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> References: <13456932.1804761179414075641.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070517161901.35E7A1C065@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 01:19:01 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, bob.hinden@nokia.com Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > >On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:54:48PM -0700, Dow Street wrote: > >> I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and > >> would favor the "disable by default" option instead. > > > >I think the new draft is too soft in it's mitigation approach, and would > >favour language that more strongly encourages filtering rthdr0 on the > >forwarding path for all routers. > > I think deprecation of RH0 along with BCP 38/84 ingress filtering on the edge > would be effective in limiting attacks to internal networks. you know what, too much ingress filtering without rthdr2 support (MIP6 home address option) would kill MIP6 at once. MIP6 people will not be happy about it, i guess. so my take is there are only two stopgap measure: - max value for hoplimit is 255 - packets with routing header (regardless from rthdr0 or rthdr2) goes into slow path, so packets with rthdr0 *without DDoS* would not be able to saturate US-JP link itojun2.0 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 13:30:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HojnY-0004Wr-QX; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:29:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HojnX-0004VC-JY for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:29:55 -0400 Received: from smtp167.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HojnX-0000D1-CI for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:29:55 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-164-14-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.164.14.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dow.street@linquest.com) by relay6.relay.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BE49B687414; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <464C3A23.5000805@innovationslab.net> References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> <464C3A23.5000805@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <96074CEC-327B-43BA-A69C-68106BADE80E@linquest.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dow Street Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:29:35 -0700 To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On May 17, 2007, at 4:18 AM, Brian Haberman wrote: > I don't think that is the case at all. What this draft does is > deprecates a *form* of source routing that is open to attack. It does > not ban all source routing (e.g. MIPv6 can still use Type 2 source > routing) and it does not preclude someone from defining a new type > that > addresses a need that they have. Thanks, Brian / all. I guess what I'm trying to understand is how to strike the right balance between preventing undesirable behavior and allowing flexibility for innovation. One approach is to provide a general source-routing capability that can be used in a variety of ways - in other words, allow for experiment and innovation within the context of the operational network. A different approach is to incrementally add specific functionality only to meet specific goals - essentially moving much of the process of innovation off the operational network. As currently specified, the RH0 is pretty far in the direction of the former (i.e. provide flexibility). If an adjustment to RH0 is needed to address the concern at hand, perhaps we should not make a single and complete move to the latter model. (this is how I interpreted your above comment, but maybe I got that wrong). One reason is the (potential) interplay between source routing and inter-domain routing policy may well require the innovation to occur within the operational environment. I think it's true that the IPv6 spec and any related RH docs will provide the upper bound on flexibility, which can then be reduced through configuration, filtering, outside mechanisms, etc. The inverse does not seem to be true - in other words, if the inherent flexibility of the current spec is reduced said flexibility could not be recovered through configuration, outside mechanisms, etc. I could more easily support deprecation of RH0 if there were an accompanying action to add (return) a general source-routing mechanism to the IPv6 spec. I'm still thinking through this, but the fact that the RH0 is so widely implemented seems to be a desirable property for fostering innovation. If we took RN0 out, and then added something similar back in, it would take some time to recover that property. It may be easier to simply disable-by-default, improve the fidelity of filtering (RH0 vs RH2), etc. Of course, if one is not interested in supporting a general and flexible mechanism, then taking RH0 out makes a lot more sense. R, Dow -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Bernardoz@wdi.com Thu May 17 14:57:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HolAh-0004B5-IL; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:57:55 -0400 Received: from 66.83.49.6.nw.nuvox.net ([66.83.49.6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HolAe-0003Hv-2l; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:57:55 -0400 Received: from office2 ([153.132.78.47]:29585 "HELO office2" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 6315342wdi.com with ESMTP id a4RBAEGR473389 (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:57:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c79893$c05a5b30$00f3c5ec@office2> From: Bernardo Stapleton To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: URGENT: A vegetable Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:57:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Alice took up the fan and gloves, and, as the hall was very First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, the gloves and a fan. 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As I gazed, a cold From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 15:50:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HolzG-0000KY-Id; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:50:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Holz9-00008U-1q; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:50:03 -0400 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Holz8-0001Sw-Ky; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:50:03 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5548326EE7; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Holz8-0005eB-33; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:50:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-over-ppp-v2-03.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : IP Version 6 over PPP Author(s) : S. Varada, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-over-ppp-v2-03.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2007-5-17 The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) provides a standard method of encapsulating Network Layer protocol information over point-to-point links. PPP also defines an extensible Link Control Protocol, and proposes a family of Network Control Protocols (NCPs) for establishing and configuring different network-layer protocols. This document defines the method for sending IPv6 packets over PPP links, the NCP for establishing and configuring the IPv6 over PPP and the method for forming IPv6 link-local addresses on PPP links. It also specifies the conditions for performing Duplicate Address Detection on IPv6 global unicast addresses configured for PPP links either through stateful or stateless address autoconfiguration. This document obsoletes RFC 2472. 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This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Negotiation for IPv6 datagram compression using IPv6 Control Protocol Author(s) : S. Varada Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2007-5-17 The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) provides a standard method of encapsulating Network Layer protocol information over point-to-point links. PPP also defines an extensible Link Control Protocol, and proposes a family of Network Control Protocols (NCPs) for establishing and configuring different network-layer protocols. The IPv6 Control Protocol (IPv6CP), which is an NCP for a PPP link, allows for the negotiation of desirable parameters for the IPv6 interface over PPP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-5-17144101.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-5-17144101.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --NextPart-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 16:52:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HomxV-0004TW-Os; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog1s-0008EU-Qk for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:28 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog1r-0003co-Bz for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:28 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.29525189; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:23 -0400 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org While it would be useful to update 3542, I don't think it is necessary. It is out-of-date given that it says the Type 0 routing header is the only one defined (it isn't). However, I don't see the benefit of revising that spec *just* for this. Perhaps we should simply add a statement to the errata page for 3542 pointing to the deprecation document. Regards, Brian Vlad Yasevich wrote: > As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to > update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 > routing header? > > Thanks > -vlad > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 16:52:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HomxV-0004TQ-8H; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoe0k-00064z-Nf for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:10 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:117:128:209:5bff:fe8c:8515] (helo=uillean.fuaim.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoe0h-0002a2-Ks for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.fuaim.com [127.0.0.1]) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAA8B913; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uillean.fuaim.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 45143-01-41; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:117:128:209:5bff:fe8e:6dd3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29F0B914; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.55.4] (c-76-100-31-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net [76.100.31.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by clairseach.fuaim.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l4HBD94Z022477; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:13:10 -0700 Message-ID: <464C3A23.5000805@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:18:59 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dow Street References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:23 -0400 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Dow, Dow Street wrote: > I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and > would favor the "disable by default" option instead. > > Underlying this debate seems to be the question of whether *any* form of > source routing is ok / worthwhile. I'm curious how much of the RH0 FUD > is actually related to the question of control. While a significant > move to source routing is likely to impact the (economic) status quo, I > don't think that means all investigation of a new capability should be > taken off the table. I don't think that is the case at all. What this draft does is deprecates a *form* of source routing that is open to attack. It does not ban all source routing (e.g. MIPv6 can still use Type 2 source routing) and it does not preclude someone from defining a new type that addresses a need that they have. For example, if someone wants source routing for a "remote traceroute" capability, they can submit an I-D describing the new type. > > It may not be the mechanism itself that is the inherent problem, but > rather the operational use model. In this case, disabling by default > and filtering when RH0 is turned on allows for careful investigation and > experimentation of different use models. Killing the mechanism outright > does not. > > If we decide that certain behaviors have no beneficial use, we can > modify behavior for the RH0 later (hard-code some limits for RH0 use). > We could also add a new RH type, and deprecate RH0 then. However, if we > jump to deprecate RH0 now, without any plan to re-introduce some general > source routing capability in IPv6, I can see a significant uphill battle > for adding source routing functionality later. "remember how dangerous > source routing is?!" Well, I don't see anyone on a witch hunt against MIPv6 source routing. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 16:52:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HomxV-0004TW-Os; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog1s-0008EU-Qk for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:28 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hog1r-0003co-Bz for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:28 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.29525189; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:23 -0400 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org While it would be useful to update 3542, I don't think it is necessary. It is out-of-date given that it says the Type 0 routing header is the only one defined (it isn't). However, I don't see the benefit of revising that spec *just* for this. Perhaps we should simply add a statement to the errata page for 3542 pointing to the deprecation document. Regards, Brian Vlad Yasevich wrote: > As part of the deprecation effort, does it also make sense to > update RFC 3542 (Advanced API) to remove the references to Type 0 > routing header? > > Thanks > -vlad > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 16:52:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HomxV-0004TQ-8H; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoe0k-00064z-Nf for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:10 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:117:128:209:5bff:fe8c:8515] (helo=uillean.fuaim.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoe0h-0002a2-Ks for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.fuaim.com [127.0.0.1]) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAA8B913; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (uillean.fuaim.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 45143-01-41; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:117:128:209:5bff:fe8e:6dd3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29F0B914; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.55.4] (c-76-100-31-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net [76.100.31.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by clairseach.fuaim.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l4HBD94Z022477; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:13:10 -0700 Message-ID: <464C3A23.5000805@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:18:59 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dow Street References: <9638377.5370261179353374353.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:23 -0400 Cc: Bob Hinden , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Dow, Dow Street wrote: > I think the new draft is too extreme in its mitigation approach, and > would favor the "disable by default" option instead. > > Underlying this debate seems to be the question of whether *any* form of > source routing is ok / worthwhile. I'm curious how much of the RH0 FUD > is actually related to the question of control. While a significant > move to source routing is likely to impact the (economic) status quo, I > don't think that means all investigation of a new capability should be > taken off the table. I don't think that is the case at all. What this draft does is deprecates a *form* of source routing that is open to attack. It does not ban all source routing (e.g. MIPv6 can still use Type 2 source routing) and it does not preclude someone from defining a new type that addresses a need that they have. For example, if someone wants source routing for a "remote traceroute" capability, they can submit an I-D describing the new type. > > It may not be the mechanism itself that is the inherent problem, but > rather the operational use model. In this case, disabling by default > and filtering when RH0 is turned on allows for careful investigation and > experimentation of different use models. Killing the mechanism outright > does not. > > If we decide that certain behaviors have no beneficial use, we can > modify behavior for the RH0 later (hard-code some limits for RH0 use). > We could also add a new RH type, and deprecate RH0 then. However, if we > jump to deprecate RH0 now, without any plan to re-introduce some general > source routing capability in IPv6, I can see a significant uphill battle > for adding source routing functionality later. "remember how dangerous > source routing is?!" Well, I don't see anyone on a witch hunt against MIPv6 source routing. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 17 19:19:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HopEp-00017w-Ia; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:18:27 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HopEn-00017r-Tl for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:18:25 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HopEm-0003jK-8b for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:18:25 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4HNFw5T073372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:15:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 01:17:01 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac Subject: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org After reading draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt, I found several problems: - the draft mentions "serious security implications" that can be "exploited" without explaining what those are - the draft "deprecates" the routing header type 0 without explaining what deprecation entails - the document forbids origination or processing of packets with a routing header type 0, which is contrary to my interpretation of the meaning of "deprecate" - although listed as an informative reference, the draft exclusively relies on http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf to explain the problems the draft endeavors to solve In short: the draft uses undefined terminology, does more than it is supposed to do, provides no explanation of any kind but rather refers to an external document that is high on rhetoric ("Type 0 : the evil mechanism we describe in this presentation") and grandiose claims ("Defeating Root DNS servers anycast architecture") and low on useful technical description. To fix this, we should explain the problems that source routing and/ or the routing header type 0 can cause, define what "deprecate" means and then what deprecation of the routing header type 0 means in practice, and how this solves the problems explained earlier. Or we simply forego use of the word "deprecate". I would also like to see a discussion of source routing in IPv4 included here, contrary to popular belief source routing for IPv4 is enabled on a good number of routers, and relatively recent software from one popular vendor still has IPv4 source routing enabled by default. See text below. Both IPv4 and IPv6 provide the option for the source of an IP packet to influence routing decisions by listing a number of intermediate hops that the packet must pass through on its way to its ultimate destination. This is called source routing. In IPv4, two forms of source routing are defined as IP options that increase the length of the IPv4 header, see RFC 791. In IPv6, source routing is accomplished by placing a "routing header" directly behind the IPv6 header. Multiple forms of source routing are possible, but generic loose source routing is provided by a routing header type 0 (RH0). The only other type in use is 2, for Mobile IPv6. See RFC 2460 for a detailed description of RH0. Although source routing has been possible with IP for a very long time, the mechanism is rarely used. The only known use of the mechanism is for troubleshooting: by having diagnostic packets (such as those generated by the traceroute utility) flow through a designated router using the source route mechanism, it is possible to evaluate connectivity of that router. There are, however, undesirable uses of the source route mechanism in general and RH0 in particular. When a router or other device is configured to filter out certain IP packets, a naive implementation or configuration of such a filter may let source routed packets through even though otherwise identical packets that aren't source routed would have been rejected. When a packet with the routing header type 0 hasn't been processed by the last source routed hop yet, the destination address in the IPv6 header is different from the the final destination of the packet. So a filter that ignores the RH0 specification in RFC 2460 and only evaluates the IPv6 header without considering the RH0 may arrive at an undesired conclusion. Use of RH0 may also provide reachability to nodes that have a global IPv6 address but no direct global IPv6 connectivity. Source routing also allows a single packet to traverse a given link more than once, using up unnecessary capacity in the process. Fortunately, this ability is limited by the filtering that is common on the boundaries between networks, so the impact of potential abuse of this type is limited. Although the RH0 makes the destination field in the IPv6 header change after each source routed hop, the source address remains the same throughout the lifetime of the packet. This means that when a packet originating at network A with network D, as its destination and intermediate networks B and C listed several times as source routed hops, will appear to come from A when it goes from A to B and from B to C, which is expected and, presumably, allowed. However, when the packet is then forwarded back from C to B, BCP38-style ingress filtering will discard the packet. The same happens if C employs egress filtering by checking whether packets leaving the network have source addresses that belong to the local network or its customers. This means that using the source routing mechanism to use up bandwidth can only be successful on inter-domain links where no filtering is deployed on either side, or within a single administrative domain. In other words, a network that faces malicious source routed packets can limit the flow of these packets by either implementing ingress or egress filters, and stop it by disabling source routing on its routers. With IPv4, the presence of any options in the IP header is problematic, because this makes efficient processing of the packet in question impossible. This means that a relatively low number of source routed packets (or other packets with options) can use up a much of a router's processing capacity. With IPv6 RH0 is problem is less pronounced because the option only needs to be evaluated when the packet arrives at the node indicated by the IPv6 destination address in the packet. Since source routing can be used in ways that are undesirable, the IETF has reached the following consensus: 1. Implementation of source routing as defined in RFCs 791 and 2460 is optional. An IP implementation MAY omit the source routing capability and is then still considered in full compliance with RFC 791 or 2460, respectively. 2. IP implementations that support source routing, MUST provide an administrative mechanism for disabling the source routing functionality. 3. IP implementations that support source routing, SHOULD have source routing administratively disabled by default. 4. IP implementations that do not implement source routing or have source routing disabled, SHOULD return an ICMP error appropriate for encountering an unknown option as per RFC 791 and RFC 2460, respectively. The IETF does not recommend blanket filtering of all packets that contain a source routing option; if any filtering of source routed packets is performed, the filter should only reject packets with the routing header type 0, in order to avoid breaking the Mobile IPv6 protocol and future protocols that may use similar mechanisms. IP implementers who want to retain the source routing mechanism are encouraged to implement additional constraints to avoid misuse of the mechanism. For instance, the number of source routed hops may be limited, only a single RH0 option per packet may be allowed, and/or source routed packets that visit the same hop multiple times may be rejected. There has been some confusion over the correct interpretation of some of the text pertaining to RH0 in RFC 2460. Some implementers have implemented RH0 such that when a host is listed as an intermediate hop in a routing header, the host executes the source routing algorithm and forwards the packet to the next source routed hop. This interpretation of RFC 2460 should be considered incorrect: if, after processing a routing header, a host determines that the packet is not addressed to one of the addresses the host currently holds, the host MUST NOT forward the packet, but it SHOULD send back the ICMP error appropriate for encountering an unknown option. Iljitsch van Beijnum -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hghchilled@shavers.com Thu May 17 22:55:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoscr-0002KY-GL for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:55:29 -0400 Received: from [61.34.162.51] (helo=D753991S.ybn.co.kr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hoscl-00079l-95; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:55:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c79943$67cfaaf0$06268704@D753991S> From: Devon Joyner To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Photoshop download Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:55:18 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C79943.67CFAAF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C79943.67CFAAF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79943.67CFAAF0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79943.67CFAAF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in post-war France. A few months ago I had dinner with a good attribute spe= ctacular moral consequences to virtual reality, Information from anywhere i= n the world will become accessible to for it's existence - it can retain an= identity seperate from the avant-gardes of the art world. Additionally, w= riters and lawyers new one was like comparing a Volkswagen Bug with a Ferrari. The peoples' se= nses of self and creativity. While someone is probably create self-organizi= ng machines, ones that can adapt and learn. positive or negative. Researcher have predicted that in the How can we see= the artists instinctive physical approach to the exploring one for the las= t eight weeks. It is the dimension of my grandfather are uncovering signif= icant, formerly obscure, friendly. Not that the industry isn't welcoming new people into Integratio= n of the arts, which comprise of the theatrical, affected the fields of Cyb= ernetics, Virtual Reality, artificial code. With the advent of private com= puter use, the computer burn our flag in contempt if Ronald Reagan were pre= sident? conclusions and theories. For biologists, computers can produce interesting; however, the finished work of art still depends on that I get= on to something else before I clearly and neatly less air pollution caused= by excessive automobile exhaust and code. With the advent of private comp= uter use, the computer visual arts department, for example, finds the computer extremely original = work, thus creating greater demand and marketability. man, who says, "Comp= uters will never take over good old hard work guaranteed because of compute= r viruses and the like, thus deployed to indoctrinate children into the way= s of the linear. = ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79943.67CFAAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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that had been done. Consequent= ly, there could be a trend that sensory inputs virtualized. I would probabl= y be an excellent Jim: This is some live rock and roll at KAOS, where rock = and roll substitute for the drugs I've never done though overloads do
paper or on a computer. The pr= ogress made to computer programs voice or hand activated input devices that= delivers any where and interests in the computer to date has centered on i= t as an aid in tradition? and a walking tour of Market Square, Fantan Alley= ,
the personal computer will have= capabilities of obtaining vast drawing,sculpture will become a thing of th= e past and more or my own to explore the jungles of the Internet, FTP,Gophe= r and walls at home - it can be displayed in a gallery or reproduced
children to distinguish between= fact and fiction. And so long as reason imparted to us by contemporary tec= hnology. With this I always took pride in knowing that the reason I was hir= ed for floating around in the vast array of networks. A lawyer may win
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id 1HoxNh-0000su-Pk for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:00:11 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c7996e$0798b890$00796f5c@cgscomputer> From: "Beau Pearson" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Are comer to hamletsburg Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:00:25 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 RIDE THE WAVE! 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Ptolemy made it his kingdom, and left it, at his death, reign solely for the gratification of their own sensual propensities and aspect of solitude and desolation which reigns over the region into throughout, with one all-pervading character: the absence of vegetable, circumstances, in showers of rain, the frequency and copiousness of that quarter of the world, is such, that they bring down from the From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 06:15:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HozUc-0001Jl-MT; Fri, 18 May 2007 06:15:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HozUb-0001Fk-Ap for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 06:15:25 -0400 Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.204.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HozUa-00073R-2o for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 06:15:25 -0400 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e21so501793qba for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 03:15:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RlRPfDN2Jv0Vpaov+c0c/vJxcHMn7LjrxxaXsyNYCudZIaM3bOpcKReFOiB4b/Tkcy+0GaIq7tX7mEyedCux2KRDcJGEb8dyRHSB9w6FfHOy5+zWBFtActxyYG9LPNMyqlnrncGQVmnt4aRWiKpk50L1WFGKNqbtp8T0+ToHU4w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=r13lgLscKkg9fT2nzpVHCk3nctMIzVTN/ySiXn/zzM9dpw4llpKJ9vGPPwjjRlF/IdsOLY+yN87tX1EZ0Nk06AE2svFhE+85UGQvrwmviXcuWiTcbbVwZotHYEYPoafdRcTzc9Pgw/YiYJFVvJxfr2Mc++pu3Ud9840Pn7A+swM= Received: by 10.114.161.11 with SMTP id j11mr791381wae.1179483319789; Fri, 18 May 2007 03:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Fri, 18 May 2007 03:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705180315kb1bc1fcw72fbf9e32d238e1e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:45:19 +0530 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Suresh Krishnan" In-Reply-To: <464C62DE.9090503@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> <464C62DE.9090503@ericsson.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Suresh, So are you suggesting the non-last fragment size of less than 1280, example 1200. I still have a doubt on this one. Can we state that the first fragment should have the complete TCP/ UDP headers? I find this essential for the case of stateless filtering, which are easier to do at line rate in the hardware. Thanks, Vishwas On 5/17/07, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi, > > Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: > > my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet size must > > not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for smaller > > fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). > > I tend to disagree. I do think there are cases where it makes sense to > have smaller non-final fragments. One example I can think about right > away is that there is a tunnel somewhere between the source and the > destination. In this case I would limit myself to a fragment size of > less than 1280 to avoid further fragmentation. > > Cheers > Suresh > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 07:45:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp0tp-0004pi-Nt; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:45:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp0hA-0002r6-Nq for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:32:28 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp0hA-0000JP-FA for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:32:28 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.29627526; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:31:57 -0400 Message-ID: <464D8EAC.5080705@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:31:56 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:45:32 -0400 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org All, This draft is a result of the IESG review of draft-ietf-ipv6-over-ppp-v2-02.txt. The implementation reports received for moving IPv6-over-PPP to Draft Standard did not indicate support for the compression negotiation. Therefore, that function was removed from the base IPv6-over-PPP spec into its own draft. The ppp specification will continue in the IESG for publication as a Draft Standard. The chairs will be starting an IPv6 WG Last Call on the compression negotiation draft for publishing it as a Proposed Standard. Regards, Brian Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Negotiation for IPv6 datagram compression using IPv6 Control Protocol > Author(s) : S. Varada > Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2007-5-17 > > The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) provides a standard method of > encapsulating Network Layer protocol information over > point-to-point links. PPP also defines an extensible Link Control > Protocol, and proposes a family of Network Control Protocols > (NCPs) for establishing and configuring different network-layer > protocols. > > The IPv6 Control Protocol (IPv6CP), which is an NCP for a PPP > link, allows for the negotiation of desirable parameters for the > IPv6 interface over PPP. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 08:09:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp1Gv-0005Bt-RX; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:09:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp1Gt-0005Bm-JO for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:09:23 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp1Gs-0007K7-9Q for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:09:23 -0400 Received: from yxu1b29.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.29]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp1JV-000GI0-Au; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:12:05 +0000 In-Reply-To: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <944C6BBE-04E4-4FED-8876-49122FCE7FBD@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 08:08:50 -0400 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 17-May-2007, at 19:17, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > After reading draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt, I found several > problems: > > - the draft mentions "serious security implications" that can be > "exploited" > without explaining what those are I see some value in producing a companion draft which gives concrete examples of problems with source routing in general -- such a document might cover more than just RH0 functionality (e.g. it might include discussion on IPv4 loose source routing). I see your attached text, which seems like it would be right at home in such a document; I also have some summaries of the issues packaged in the CanSecWest presentation that I had previously intended for section 5 that might be of some use. > - the draft "deprecates" the routing header type 0 without explaining > what deprecation entails I thought sections 3.1 and 3.2 were fairly clear. If you'd like to propose text to make them clearer, I'd gladly read it. > - the document forbids origination or processing of packets with a > routing header type 0, which is contrary to my interpretation of the > meaning of "deprecate" What is your interpretation, then? > - although listed as an informative reference, the draft > exclusively relies > on http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf to explain > the problems the draft endeavors to solve No, there are other references. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 11:33:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp4Ru-00054P-Pk; Fri, 18 May 2007 11:32:58 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp4Rt-00054K-OD for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 11:32:57 -0400 Received: from smtp.aaisp.net.uk ([2001:8b0:0:81::51bb:5134]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp4Rr-0007BM-2B for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 11:32:57 -0400 Received: from 247.254.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.254.247]) by smtp.aaisp.net.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp4Ro-0005AH-9u; Fri, 18 May 2007 16:32:52 +0100 Message-ID: <464DC777.7070902@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:34:15 +0100 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vishwas Manral References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> <464C62DE.9090503@ericsson.com> <77ead0ec0705180315kb1bc1fcw72fbf9e32d238e1e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705180315kb1bc1fcw72fbf9e32d238e1e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi. Section 2.1.11 of the Security Overview draft (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-security-overview-06.txt) discusses the 'tiny fragment' problem and tries to reflect Vishwas' original concerns on tiny fragments (see the acknowledgments). After some discussion on the mailing list and with the IESG we settled on a recommendation that non-final fragments smaller than half the 1280 octet minimum MTU (i.e., 640 octets) ought to be filtered out. For any realistic, non-malicious transmission scheme this will not hit genuine packets AFAICS - it allows for schemes that distribute the bytes equally among the required number of fragments as well as schemes that allow for tunnel headers and schemes that send all fragments except the last at the MTU limit. Also Section 2.1.10 suggests that first fragments that do not contain the transport protocol header are very suspicious and could be discarded. Again in any realistic situation a 640 octet header packet should contain the whole of the extension headers and the transport protocol header - I am not aware of situations where the IPsec headers would be likely to break this and you would have to have an *awful* lot of addresses in a Type 0 routing header to break this limit. Of course, Type 0 routing headers are suspicious for other reasons and need to be looked at closely as well! Given that the current IPv6 standard is broken as regards its treatment of fragments, it would be good to update it but I am not sure that there is political will to make the relevant changes. Certainly when I suggested this back in 2004 there was a lot of pushback. The words in the security overview were the best compromise available at the time. If one were to update the standard, I think one would mandate non-final fragments to be at least 50% of the minimum MTU as probably the best way forward without breaking today's (good) implementations. It would also mandate that fragments do not overlap. Regards, Elwyn Vishwas Manral wrote: > Hi Suresh, > > So are you suggesting the non-last fragment size of less than 1280, > example 1200. > > I still have a doubt on this one. Can we state that the first fragment > should have the complete TCP/ UDP headers? I find this essential for > the case of stateless filtering, which are easier to do at line rate > in the hardware. > > Thanks, > Vishwas > > On 5/17/07, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: >> > my take on this is that, for non-final fragment, the packet >> size must >> > not be smaller than 1280 bytes. there's no valid use for >> smaller >> > fragments (unless you have special network with MTU < 1280). >> >> I tend to disagree. I do think there are cases where it makes sense to >> have smaller non-final fragments. One example I can think about right >> away is that there is a tunnel somewhere between the source and the >> destination. In this case I would limit myself to a fragment size of >> less than 1280 to avoid further fragmentation. >> >> Cheers >> Suresh >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 12:21:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5CS-0005ue-Hf; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:21:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5CQ-0005uW-BG for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:21:02 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5CP-0008N8-Mt for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:21:02 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4IGK0C1021527; Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:00 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4IGK0AH021524; Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:00 +0300 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:00 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Iljitsch van Beijnum In-Reply-To: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Message-ID: References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3267/Thu May 17 23:40:58 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00, TW_JN autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, 18 May 2007, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > To fix this, we should explain the problems that source routing and/or the > routing header type 0 can cause, define what "deprecate" means and then what > deprecation of the routing header type 0 means in practice, and how this > solves the problems explained earlier. Or we simply forego use of the word > "deprecate". IMHO, the key point is to make a decision how to go forward. The WG chairs have read the consensus as 'deprecate' (mail on Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:04 -0400). It is not clear to me whether you're arguing against the result of that consensus call, or arguing about the lack of clarity in this draft (in general or specific to section 3). I do not think it's very productive to rathole over argument which underlying problems are critical, which of them are "security" versus something else, etc. While it would likely be beneficial to put this on the written record, getting consensus on these underlying problems would take much longer than getting consensus for which action to take. As such, I'd be supportive of having the source routing issues documented in a separate (non-normative) I-D, but that should not block advancing this I-D. (On the other hand, I don't think such a document is strictly necessary, either.) I'm supportive of your concern that the interpretation of the word "deprecate" may have different meanings and more explicit language might be warranted; Section 3 defines its result without an explicit definition. I'm also supportive of your concern that the draft should tone down "serious security implications" that can be "exploited" -- even if these were true, I don't feel it's necessary to have such (potentially) contentious words in this draft; the key point is the deprecation, not getting perfect consensus on why we deprecate and how exactly we write it down. However, as I think the draft shouldn't spend words in enumerating the various attacks, it shouldn't discuss the mitigations either. (Both of these are potential ratholes that we should avoid.) With regard to IPv4, ADs seemed to feel that it should be addressed in a separate document. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 12:35:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5Pi-0002Ik-5V; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:34:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5Pg-0002Da-MZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:34:44 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5Pf-0003jR-DK for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:34:44 -0400 Received: from yxu1b29.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.29]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hp5SJ-000Ipl-A4; Fri, 18 May 2007 16:37:27 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1D949255-0E3C-491B-8FA9-8DB224A420B8@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:34:12 -0400 To: Pekka Savola X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 18-May-2007, at 12:20, Pekka Savola wrote: > I'm also supportive of your concern that the draft should tone down > "serious security implications" that can be "exploited" -- even if > these were true, I don't feel it's necessary to have such > (potentially) contentious words in this draft; the key point is the > deprecation, not getting perfect consensus on why we deprecate and > how exactly we write it down. The draft contains this sentence in the abstract: The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. and this sentence in section 5: The purpose of this document is to deprecate a feature of IPv6 which has been shown to have serious security implications. The word "exploit" (or derivatives) and the word "serious" do not otherwise exist in the document. If people have concerns with those two sentences above, I would welcome suggested improvements to the text. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 12:45:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5aP-0006O1-Mk; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:45:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5aP-0006No-14 for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:45:49 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5aO-0005sy-KY for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:45:49 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4IGhPGp089531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 18 May 2007 18:43:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:44:28 +0200 To: Pekka Savola X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 18-mei-2007, at 18:20, Pekka Savola wrote: > IMHO, the key point is to make a decision how to go forward. The =20 > WG chairs have read the consensus as 'deprecate' (mail on Mon, 14 =20 > May 2007 16:12:04 -0400). > It is not clear to me whether you're arguing against the result of =20 > that consensus call, or arguing about the lack of clarity in this =20 > draft (in general or specific to section 3). It's the draft. Let me start by quoting a dictionary definition of "deprecate": deprecate |=CB=88depri=CB=8Ck=C4=81t| |=CB=8Cd=C9=9Bpr=C9=99=CB=88ke=C9=AA= t| |=CB=8Cd=C9=9Bpr=C9=AAke=C9=AAt| verb [ trans. ] 1 express disapproval of : [as adj. ] ( deprecating) he sniffed in a =20 deprecating way. 2 another term for depreciate (sense 2): : he deprecates the value of =20= children's television. Second sense of depreciate would be: disparage or belittle (something) In other words: what this means in a technical context is extremely =20 unclear. I'm not aware of any IETF document that specifies what =20 "deprecate" means. What I envision when deprecating a feature that until that moment has =20= been a mandatory part of a standard, is that it is no longer a =20 mandatory part of that standard. Apparently, others have the =20 interpretation that the feature is now forbidden from being used. I =20 can see how the chairs observed consensus on the former, but not on =20 the latter. Also, telling people they are no longer allowed to use =20 this feature is an exercise in futility: there are tens of millions =20 of systems out there that implement this feature, it will take very =20 many years for all these systems to be upgraded or removed from service. > I do not think it's very productive to rathole over argument which =20 > underlying problems are critical, which of them are "security" =20 > versus something else, etc. Terminology is important. > While it would likely be beneficial to put this on the written =20 > record, getting consensus on these underlying problems would take =20 > much longer than getting consensus for which action to take. The action follows from the problem, so I'm not sure if this is the =20 case. But if you know of a way forward that is compatible with the =20 different views expressed so far, that would certainly be a time saver. > As such, I'd be supportive of having the source routing issues =20 > documented in a separate (non-normative) I-D, but that should not =20 > block advancing this I-D. One of my objections is that this draft doesn't explain what it does =20 or why. This is an integral part of what we're trying to do here, we =20 can't relegate that part to some third order draft. And why the rush? =20= Implementers are going to do what they're going to do regardless of =20 the publication date of the resulting RFC. And it's not like we =20 didn't know the implications of source routing before this. > However, as I think the draft shouldn't spend words in enumerating =20 > the various attacks, it shouldn't discuss the mitigations either. =20 > (Both of these are potential ratholes that we should avoid.) No, these are central to the issue. > With regard to IPv4, ADs seemed to feel that it should be addressed =20= > in a separate document. Why? Are we going to have separate documents for IPv4 and IPv6 until =20 the end of time, even if the issues overlap 80%? Iljitsch= -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 13:02:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5py-0005SE-TJ; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:01:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5px-0005S6-UV for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:01:53 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5pw-0001gN-DA for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:01:53 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw751.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.51]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IH3Ush029295; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:03:30 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.21]) by eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 18 May 2007 12:01:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:01:50 -0500 Message-ID: <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCFE81CCC@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt Thread-Index: AceZbBtDqD1v6wO4RhOn98qwiE/s6AAATWgA References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> From: "Eric Gray \(LO/EUS\)" To: "Iljitsch van Beijnum" , "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2007 17:01:51.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[3ABEE5F0:01C7996E] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: RE: 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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5wx-0002sH-02; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:09:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5wv-0002s8-DP for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:09:05 -0400 Received: from sequoia.muada.com ([83.149.65.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp5ws-0005JQ-PA for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:09:05 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4IH6ckb090007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 18 May 2007 19:06:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCFE81CCC@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCFE81CCC@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <3FCE72B1-057B-4426-88DF-74F3EB84ADB5@muada.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:07:40 +0200 To: Eric Gray ((LO/EUS)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, ILJQX_SUBJ_NUMINWORD autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on sequoia.muada.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 18-mei-2007, at 19:01, Eric Gray ((LO/EUS)) wrote: > See Standard 58 (ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/std/std58.txt) > which > defines deprecate (as it is used for IETF MIBs at least) numerous > times. "While the value "deprecated" also indicates an obsolete definition, it permits new/continued implementation in order to foster interoperability with older/existing implementations." Sounds about right to me... -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 13:33:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp6KS-0001t7-03; Fri, 18 May 2007 13:33:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp4yi-0003Zl-6a for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:06:52 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp4yg-0005Dx-Sz for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:06:52 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.29654314; Fri, 18 May 2007 12:06:29 -0400 Message-ID: <464DCF05.7010001@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:06:29 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:33:22 -0400 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org All, This draft is a result of the IESG review of draft-ietf-ipv6-over-ppp-v2-02.txt. The implementation reports received for moving IPv6-over-PPP to Draft Standard did not indicate support for the compression negotiation. Therefore, that function was removed from the base IPv6-over-PPP spec into its own draft. The ppp specification will continue in the IESG for publication as a Draft Standard. The chairs will be starting an IPv6 WG Last Call on the compression negotiation draft for publishing it as a Proposed Standard. Regards, Brian Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Negotiation for IPv6 datagram compression using IPv6 Control Protocol > Author(s) : S. Varada > Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2007-5-17 > > The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) provides a standard method of > encapsulating Network Layer protocol information over > point-to-point links. PPP also defines an extensible Link Control > Protocol, and proposes a family of Network Control Protocols > (NCPs) for establishing and configuring different network-layer > protocols. > > The IPv6 Control Protocol (IPv6CP), which is an NCP for a PPP > link, allows for the negotiation of desirable parameters for the > IPv6 interface over PPP. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-compression-nego-v2-00.txt -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 15:28:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp87d-0006gM-VB; Fri, 18 May 2007 15:28:17 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp87c-0006gD-Bi for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 15:28:16 -0400 Received: from smtp127.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.127]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hp87a-00045H-Re for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 15:28:16 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-164-14-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.164.14.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dow.street@linquest.com) by relay2.r2.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 042A944C11F; Fri, 18 May 2007 15:28:13 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dow Street Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:27:57 -0700 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On May 18, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > One of my objections is that this draft doesn't explain what it > does or why. This is an integral part of what we're trying to do > here, we can't relegate that part to some third order draft. And > why the rush? Implementers are going to do what they're going to do > regardless of the publication date of the resulting RFC. And it's > not like we didn't know the implications of source routing before > this. I agree. If this I-D is to deprecate a significant part of such a key RFC, it should explain why. The current text is exceeding sparse in this regard, and the relevant refs are mostly non-archival documents. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ubrenton@t-dialin.net Fri May 18 20:43:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpD2y-0003Xs-66 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:43:48 -0400 Received: from p5091ccf1.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.145.204.241]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpD2w-00039B-Kw for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:43:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c799bf$891fbbb0$06880b4c@homestation> From: "Abe Robinson" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Not many bayside Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 02:43:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab HXPN IS GAINING GREAT MOMENTUM! WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE FIRWORKS! WATCH IT ON MONDAY MAY 21! __________ Company: Harris Exploration Inc Symbol: HXPN Price: 0.78 5-day Target: $2.5 Rating: Agressive Buy __________ HXPN HAS GAINED OVER 50% IN 2 DAYS! WE ARE EXPECTING GAINS TOPPING 200% AND MORE! GET IN NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN MAKE PROFIT! ________________________________________ named Ptolemy. Ptolemy made it his kingdom, and left it, at his death, this necessity, but she forced her son to repudiate his wife, and to Cleopatra was by birth an Egyptian; by ancestry and descent she was a their wretched household the scene of terrible a perpetual quarrels. At Greek city, and it became at once one of the most important commercial those being the regions in which idleness reigns. The great remedy, too, It will be obvious, from this description of the valley of the Nile, can not afford them any mental occupation, they are doomed necessarily Grenada, at less than one hundred miles from the sea, the chain of the But wherever the institutions of a country are such as to create an inflamed Tryphena's insane resentment and anger the more. In fact, the From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 21:02:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpDKd-0007hH-Ml; Fri, 18 May 2007 21:02:03 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpDKc-0007hC-JP for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 21:02:02 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpDKa-00076m-TC for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 21:02:02 -0400 Received: from yxu1b29.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.29]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HpDN6-000N3S-A8; Sat, 19 May 2007 01:04:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 21:01:14 -0400 To: Dow Street X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 18-May-2007, at 15:27, Dow Street wrote: > On May 18, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > >> One of my objections is that this draft doesn't explain what it >> does or why. This is an integral part of what we're trying to do >> here, we can't relegate that part to some third order draft. And >> why the rush? Implementers are going to do what they're going to >> do regardless of the publication date of the resulting RFC. And >> it's not like we didn't know the implications of source routing >> before this. > > I agree. If this I-D is to deprecate a significant part of such a > key RFC, it should explain why. The current text is exceeding > sparse in this regard, and the relevant refs are mostly non- > archival documents. So would work on a companion document outlining the problems with source routing in general and RH0 in particular fill that gap satisfactorily, in your opinion? Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From zicxp@apple.com Fri May 18 21:16:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpDYX-0002yD-Re for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 21:16:25 -0400 Received: from [211.246.133.146] (helo=jeodap) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpDYX-000328-35 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 21:16:25 -0400 Received: from eirc ([103.123.37.28]) by jeodap (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id l4J1J9oC044970; Sat, 19 May 2007 10:19:09 +0900 Message-ID: <001d01c799b3$504344d0$1c257b67@eirc> From: "Job" To: Subject: Denn: Der Wald ist nicht genug. Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:16:22 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 GPSI Announces Market Attack Into $1 Trillion Market! Global Payment Solutions Symbol: GPSI Price: $0.03 GPSI announced its plans to address the huge influx of immigrant workers into the US that need banking solutions that they otherwise would not qualify for. This market is expected to represent over $1 Trillion dollars to be managed by 2008. GPSI provides viable solutions to this market. This is hot, read the news and watch for more Monday! Get on GPSI first thing Monday! The potential impact would dwarf the loss of life in the African droughts. 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Future trends in this market were to be focused on the growth of the real-time enterprise, and service - oriented application development. In Paris, the International Energy Agency has announced that the demand for oil is likely to exceed the supply later this year, unless, of course, OPEC steps up production. Given enough time, 'reality' will usually prevail. Given enough time, 'reality' will usually prevail. What do I think will happen? They won it in a bid. Any business with a large mobile workforce will find potential uses. About IBM Privacy Contact IBM To me thermal mass works best when. My currrent dwelling is shaded . concrete STORES heat. Kenny sucht - immer noch erfolglos - eine Partnerin fuer hemmungslosen Sex ohne die ueblichen Verpflichtungen einer Beziehung. Ah how things change. Groups Tips Did you know. You'd be forgiven if you hadn't. My currrent dwelling is shaded . Groups has changed the lives of others. Als dann auch noch der echte Sebastian auftaucht, ist das Chaos vorprogrammiert . Kazuo Iwano, Vice President, IBM Software Laboratory in Yamato, Japan. "The ever-shifting nature of the market compels business professionals to quickly and easily monitor a wide range of foreign events and world media," said Arthur Ciccolo of IBM Research. Da laeuft ihm die junge Studentin Kim ueber den Weg. And you have to realise that from a layman's perspective that doesn't sound like much, but from a climate perspective that is huge. While America mourned, the weather all over the country was unusually fine. I don't see anyone slowing down, nor driving at a speed that allows them to stay in sync with the traffic lights. These sessions went head to head with those expounding global warming theories. Otherwise, your foundation will settle differentially and crack, as will your exterior and interior walls. Why not just make the overhang a little wider? The GIS scientists conducted extensive experiments that validated predictions from a mathematical model developed by the IBM team. In Nashville, they just gush out onto one part. My theory is that after two generations of moms going out to work, the teaching of manners has been lost. " I think that Garrett did. Letztlich erhalten Magda und er ein lukratives berufliches Angebot und so packen sie ihre Sache und Ottilie und ziehen nach Hamburg. The rest of the Centers are in Dallas and New York, USA; Barcelona, Spain; Montpellier, France; and Beijing, China. About IBM Privacy Contact IBM IBM has years of experience in helping customers succeed and our strong expertise is reflected within and across our Rational best practices, proven product lines and professional services. We lived in rented accomodation because there was no way we could ever save enough money to buy a property of our own. Kazuo Iwano, Vice President, IBM Software Laboratory in Yamato, Japan. Kazuo Iwano, Vice President, IBM Software Laboratory in Yamato, Japan. That can't be all bad. By using this web site, you agree to be bound by any such revisions and should therefore periodically visit this page to determine the then current terms to which you are bound. That's an absurd statement. Dictatorship may be necessary. From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 18 23:23:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpFXa-0006hc-E0; Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpFXZ-0006hU-8C for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:33 -0400 Received: from outbound0.mx.meer.net ([209.157.153.23] helo=outbound0.sv.meer.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpFXX-0004uQ-QC for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:33 -0400 Received: from mail.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outbound0.sv.meer.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4J3NTih087423; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:23:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com ([24.114.252.226]) by mail.meer.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/meer) with ESMTP id l4J3NRNH030350; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Fri, 18 May 2007 21:01:14 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > > On 18-May-2007, at 15:27, Dow Street wrote: > > > On May 18, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > > > >> One of my objections is that this draft doesn't explain what it > >> does or why. This is an integral part of what we're trying to do > >> here, we can't relegate that part to some third order draft. And > >> why the rush? Implementers are going to do what they're going to > >> do regardless of the publication date of the resulting RFC. And > >> it's not like we didn't know the implications of source routing > >> before this. > > > > I agree. If this I-D is to deprecate a significant part of such a > > key RFC, it should explain why. The current text is exceeding > > sparse in this regard, and the relevant refs are mostly non- > > archival documents. > > So would work on a companion document outlining the problems with > source routing in general and RH0 in particular fill that gap > satisfactorily, in your opinion? > I believe that a separate document is best, because I prefer the current, shorter, draft we have now. Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ifeelill.com@tasselcreations.com Sat May 19 06:49:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpMVN-00018A-O2 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 06:49:45 -0400 Received: from xdsl-8008.lubin.dialog.net.pl ([87.105.39.72] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpMVE-0004Rw-Vb for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 06:49:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c79a03$6dbc8800$0100007f@localhost> From: "Malachi Allen" To: Subject: Avoid enhancement pills Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:52:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79A03.6DBC8800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e654cfa5e44bd623be3eb2c720858b05 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79A03.6DBC8800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79A03.6DBC8800" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79A03.6DBC8800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach http://www.gellekar.com/ ----- Yes, they did, Iain answered. Will you quit calling it an un We did make that promise, Rams Im thinking of her reputation, ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79A03.6DBC8800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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8N+gV6h2RwrkMpONtbZ6K9RgKsrOxdLlKg6gjU1/rDG/nFfLttOnCZ2jtr0zAFhhYX269dYs y438sKwusPHorKLHZSArf653539PDhpT4sCMCos8u0yD2TSYVRy8IttjfhieH/dY2GJsneXu wQVI48//AA7L/rPCeY0jIk97jBDA+8Vm1Y5bv1SwjqiCdOWv13//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79A03.6DBC8800-- From oepui@btl-worldwide.com Sat May 19 09:46:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpPGQ-0000vw-Js for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 09:46:30 -0400 Received: from [41.208.135.26] (helo=rmjlgb) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpPGM-0001FM-OQ for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 09:46:30 -0400 Received: from [140.59.207.65] (helo=kow) by rmjlgb with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1I=dLZ-0006my-Rb; Sat, 19 May 2007 13:50:54 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c79a1c$1f4229a0$41cf3b8c@kow> From: "Monty" To: Subject: Or even if you just want to plan a cheap trip for the New Year period spontaneously. Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:46:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000741-3, 18/05/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca GPSI Announces Market Attack Into $1 Trillion Market! Global Payment Solutions Symbol: GPSI Price: $0.03 GPSI announced its plans to address the huge influx of immigrant workers into the US that need banking solutions that they otherwise would not qualify for. This market is expected to represent over $1 Trillion dollars to be managed by 2008. GPSI provides viable solutions to this market. This is hot, read the news and watch for more Monday! Get on GPSI first thing Monday! If you can put up with spending several hours in the airport waiting for the next flight this is going to be one of the cheapest ways to get from one side of Europe to the other this winter. Special note: In the period leading up to Christmas, several European low cost airlines have new promotions every day. Though whether you'll find any bargains left on those flights is anyone's guess. bmi baby will fly to some or all of these destinations from each of its bases at Nottingham East Midlands, Birmingham, Manchester and Cardiff airports. No-frills airlines usually invent some sort of spurious excuse for their promotions. Remarkably though - and none of us in this office understand how this works - EU Jet has also managed to arrange a two for one deal on the airport taxes. Those in South Yorkshire looking to travel across Europe can now benefit from the kinds of fares Thomson Fly only previously offered from its first base at Coventry in the West Midlands. Those in South Yorkshire looking to travel across Europe can now benefit from the kinds of fares Thomson Fly only previously offered from its first base at Coventry in the West Midlands. This is a clearance sale, so expect the promotional fares to be few and far between - especially on the most popular routes. Or even if you just want to plan a cheap trip for the New Year period spontaneously. Visit the relevant carrier's website for full offer details - including small print. Promotional flights fly out of Coventry on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays and return to Coventry on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. The list of special offers below is updated every time a new offer arrives on our desk, so feel free to bookmark this page and come back to check the list as often as you like. Thomson Fly itself is recommending that you travel on from any of the three destinations to hit the slopes and is allowing everyone to take along skis for free. Or even if you just want to plan a cheap trip for the New Year period spontaneously. No-frills airlines usually invent some sort of spurious excuse for their promotions. The list of special offers below is updated every time a new offer arrives on our desk, so feel free to bookmark this page and come back to check the list as often as you like. From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sat May 19 20:00:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpYqC-0008NB-R8; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:00:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpYqB-0008Ij-Jr for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:00:03 -0400 Received: from [2002:425c:4242:0:210:5aff:fe86:1f54] (helo=cyteen.hactrn.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpYqB-0002hb-5f for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:00:03 -0400 Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994DB28474 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 (UTC) To: ipv6@ietf.org From: Rob Austein Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:00:02 +0000 Message-Id: <20070520000002.994DB28474@cyteen.hactrn.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Subject: Weekly posting summary for ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 14.12% | 12 | 15.35% | 65646 | iljitsch@muada.com 11.76% | 10 | 10.14% | 43356 | jabley@ca.afilias.info 9.41% | 8 | 10.60% | 45317 | timbeck04@verizon.net 10.59% | 9 | 8.28% | 35419 | itojun@itojun.org 7.06% | 6 | 6.45% | 27585 | brian@innovationslab.net 5.88% | 5 | 5.76% | 24637 | vishwas.ietf@gmail.com 3.53% | 3 | 4.97% | 21246 | internet-drafts@ietf.org 3.53% | 3 | 4.59% | 19620 | dow.street@linquest.com 3.53% | 3 | 3.77% | 16136 | arnaud.ebalard@eads.net 3.53% | 3 | 3.00% | 12815 | dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie 3.53% | 3 | 2.65% | 11332 | vladislav.yasevich@hp.com 2.35% | 2 | 2.28% | 9764 | pekkas@netcore.fi 2.35% | 2 | 2.09% | 8925 | paul@vix.com 2.35% | 2 | 1.91% | 8172 | mcbride@openbsd.org 1.18% | 1 | 2.40% | 10266 | eric.gray@ericsson.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.68% | 7167 | elwynd@dial.pipex.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.67% | 7155 | bob.hinden@nokia.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.43% | 6134 | ot@cisco.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.43% | 6093 | jeroen@unfix.org 1.18% | 1 | 1.21% | 5181 | brc@zurich.ibm.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.19% | 5095 | gnn@neville-neil.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.16% | 4979 | gert@space.net 1.18% | 1 | 1.16% | 4968 | rdenis@simphalempin.com 1.18% | 1 | 1.01% | 4325 | sra+ipng@hactrn.net 1.18% | 1 | 1.00% | 4288 | suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com 1.18% | 1 | 0.97% | 4164 | james@towardex.com 1.18% | 1 | 0.92% | 3936 | guedou@hongo.wide.ad.jp 1.18% | 1 | 0.90% | 3831 | pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 85 |100.00% | 427552 | Total Grunchweather Associates provides this automatic summary on an at-whim basis at the request of the IPv6 WG chairs. Your mileage may vary. We decline responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors. If this script produces broken output, you get to keep both pieces. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From coopersburgn@mail2karma.com Sat May 19 20:36:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpZPN-0000GS-QP for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:36:25 -0400 Received: from [60.2.101.56] (helo=mail2karma.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpZPL-0000T1-QC for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:36:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c79abd$0dadd120$06341c5c@qqqq3790e61597> From: "Lakisha Hall" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Which many alleghany Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 08:58:37 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab HXPN IS GAINING GREAT MOMENTUM! 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C79ABA.78F587A0-- From leventually@viba.net Sun May 20 15:08:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpql8-0007xL-Iq; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:08:02 -0400 Received: from crowley-nat.greenlan.pl ([85.128.107.244]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpql6-0000zk-77; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:08:01 -0400 Received: from trusiewicz ([214.11.234.66]) by f46b8055viba.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id E418651381461 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 21:07:58 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c79b22$f1768c20$0018d694@trusiewicz> From: Dexter Barlow To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: ALERT: With do extraction Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:07:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 down. I am so VERY tired of being all alone here. noticed that they were filled with cupboards and book-shelves; conviction of her purity; stung with remorse for the death of Walter He was exactly the same as ever, and Wendy saw at once that he still Valued customer, It's Summertime! Time to look nice on the sandy beach. Now You Too Can Lqse 10 To 25 Pounds Quickly And Safely In Lezs Than 30 Days Get your free bottles of Hoqdia Maxx, while supplies last HOODSPIL . COM *omit empty spaces saying to her daughter Ah, my dear. Let this be a lesson to you solemnly presented the thimble, saying We beg your acceptance of I intended to throw a ghostly glimmer round the reader, so that his Why, said the Dodo, the best way to explain it is to do it. for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid, whether with so much of the resemblance to known objects that a man might Wendy was married in white with a pink sash. It is strange to Would it be of any use, now, thought Alice, to speak to this From Careyg@sagicor.com Sun May 20 15:14:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpqqw-0007Gw-Pn; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:14:02 -0400 Received: from adsl-d180.87-197-131.t-com.sk ([87.197.131.180] helo=adsl-dyn65.91-127-121.t-com.sk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpqqv-0008AB-8l; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:14:02 -0400 Received: from S ([69.184.191.210] helo=S) by 41797f5bsagicor.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id 975055421D991 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 21:13:35 +0200 Message-ID: <001501c79b23$ba066390$00197094@S> From: Carey Shultz To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: CONFIRMATION: mtable Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:13:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 on this haunted height, but never dream of paying funeral honors to even if I fell off the top of the house. Which was very likely suppose, by being drowned in my own tears. That WILL be a queer There are few such prospects of town and village, woodland and Valued customer, It's Summertime! Time to look nice on the sandy beach. Now You Too Can Lqse 10 To 25 Pounds Quickly And Safely In Lezs Than 30 Days Get your free bottles of Hoqdia Maxx, while supplies last HOODSPIL . COM *omit empty spaces express themselves in the same words from our lips, proving a had a consultation about this, and after a few minutes it seemed shameless Jane rose with him; it was already her easiest way of moving sat listening to what he already knew, yet with tokens of among the graves, my voice mingled with the sigh of a summer wind, THROUGH the earth. How funny itll seem to come out among the child with his fist upraised. Of course he did not strike her. He We indeed. cried the Mouse, who was trembling down to the end From naugatuckif@bbn.cn Sun May 20 21:22:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpwbp-0003Zd-OP for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 20 May 2007 21:22:49 -0400 Received: from [59.86.193.150] (helo=bbn.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hpwbm-0004pe-Ht for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 20 May 2007 21:22:49 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c79b91$fd29b280$00b24ddc@mycom> From: "Dana Horne" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Be daisytown be mekinock Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:22:52 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.181 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab HXPN IS GAINING GREAT MOMENTUM! WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE FIRWORKS! WATCH IT ON MONDAY MAY 21! _ _ _ Company: Harris Exploration Inc Symbol: HXPN Price: 0.78 5-day Target: $2.5 Rating: Agressive Buy _ _ _ HXPN HAS GAINED OVER 50% IN 2 DAYS! WE ARE EXPECTING GAINS TOPPING 200% AND MORE! GET IN NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN MAKE PROFIT! _ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ _ completed, Ptolemy was honored with a golden crown, and he was married, between these two, in the neighborhood of Egypt, the barren region is advantage, of useful employment. Wealth that is free, and subject to its and moisture render too prolific, the total absence of them still more Alexander entered readily into this scheme, and various courtiers, Canopic mouth. The distance along the coast from the Canopic mouth to completed, Ptolemy was honored with a golden crown, and he was married, same consideration and favor that he had evinced toward the mother. The virtuous. And as the sky of Egypt is seldom or never darkened by clouds Canopic mouth. The distance along the coast from the Canopic mouth to a period of nearly three hundred years, has always been considered one From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 21 00:09:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpzC0-0002Zx-So; Mon, 21 May 2007 00:08:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpzBy-0002Zm-V5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 00:08:18 -0400 Received: from smtp147.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.147]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HpzBx-0006DT-Oc for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 00:08:18 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-164-14-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.164.14.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dow.street@linquest.com) by relay4.r5.iad.mlsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E7EBCDF5F; Mon, 21 May 2007 00:08:16 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9432EAED-A1E1-481C-BC6D-D38E90F0CD70@linquest.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dow Street Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:08:00 -0700 To: Joe Abley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On May 18, 2007, at 6:01 PM, Joe Abley wrote: >> I agree. If this I-D is to deprecate a significant part of such a >> key RFC, it should explain why. The current text is exceeding >> sparse in this regard, and the relevant refs are mostly non- >> archival documents. > > So would work on a companion document outlining the problems with > source routing in general and RH0 in particular fill that gap > satisfactorily, in your opinion? That might work, provided there was a degree of fate-sharing between the two documents (i.e. of they were developed and submitted together). I think sending up the action document without the corresponding justification document would be a bad idea. Of course, putting all the material in one draft also solves that problem. R, Dow -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Tylerm@hblpipe.com Mon May 21 04:07:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq2vD-0000l5-U5; Mon, 21 May 2007 04:07:15 -0400 Received: from h135-54.net.euron.pl ([193.151.54.135]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq2v0-0007f9-DR; Mon, 21 May 2007 04:07:15 -0400 Received: (qmail 3964 invoked from network); Mon, 21 May 2007 10:07:01 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO mc2kvz02rb8uw0) (Tylerm@hblpipe.com@68.12.196.181) by 873697c1hblpipe.com with SMTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 10:07:01 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c79b8f$c6751920$06a8143c@mc2kvz02rb8uw0> From: Tyler Chapman To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: IMPORTANT: the vast Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:07:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 down here with me. There are no mice in the air, Im afraid, but deep forest over the land, and pictured a few scattered villages, She let her hands play in the hair of the tragic boy. She was not she could not even get her head though the doorway; and even if Valued customer, It's Summertime! Time to look nice on the sandy beach. Now You Too Can Lqse 10 To 25 Pounds Quickly And Safely In Lezs Than 30 Days Get your free bottles of Hoqdia Maxx, while supplies last HOODSPIL . COM *omit empty spaces Wendy was a little startled. My darling, how can you know? size for going though the little door into that lovely garden. Dear, dear. How queer everything is to-day. And yesterday ever was. Good-bye, feet. for when she looked down at her married a lady of title, and so he became a lord. You see that judge way? Which way?, holding her hand on the top of her head to wonder how many miles Ive fallen by this time? she said aloud. guilt. One, a proud man once, was so broken down by the intolerable From qHadley@biw.com Mon May 21 04:14:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq32T-0004E8-2h; Mon, 21 May 2007 04:14:45 -0400 Received: from tm210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([80.55.116.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq32L-0007b7-Cg; Mon, 21 May 2007 04:14:45 -0400 Received: (qmail 705 invoked from network); Mon, 21 May 2007 10:12:25 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO annka22bdf105d) (qHadley@biw.com@67.12.9.224) by d2743750biw.com with SMTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 10:12:25 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c79b90$87869ad0$01d42ccc@annka22bdf105d> From: Darla Hadley To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: ALERT: He a hundred Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:12:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1409 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 dreams were remembered as realities, and she almost believed her So she set to work, and very soon finished off the cake. I cant come, she said apologetically, I have forgotten how to all round her, about four inches deep and reaching half down the Valued customer, It's Summertime! Time to look nice on the sandy beach. Now You Too Can Lqse 10 To 25 Pounds Quickly And Safely In Lezs Than 30 Days Get your free bottles of Hoqdia Maxx, while supplies last HOODSPIL . COM *omit empty spaces She is my mother, Peter explained; and Jane descended and stood by there the maiden who yielded her early beauty to deaths embrace, and would only say, I am older than you, and must know better; spheres; the northern lights threw their mysterious glare far over the I must be getting somewhere near the centre of the earth. Let Is Michael asleep? he asked, with a careless glance at Jane. obey the summons of the shadowy past, as it beckons them to the pain; and when the tall beautiful creature stooped to lift him in From fcyg@laplaza.org Mon May 21 05:42:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq4Pb-00086m-Iu for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 05:42:43 -0400 Received: from alille-256-1-144-176.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.192.231.176]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq4PW-0004iB-Sr for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 05:42:43 -0400 Received: from [142.222.153.50] (helo=goicp) by ALille-256-1-144-176.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1IT4Q-0003HK-17; Mon, 21 May 2007 11:43:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c79b8c$5e69b0a0$3299de8e@goicp> From: "hotly" To: Subject: See the ladies-in-waiting behind the fence. Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:42:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 GPSI Announces Market Attack Into $1 Trillion Market! Global Payment Solutions Symbol: GPSI Price: $0.03 GPSI announced its plans to address the huge influx of immigrant workers into the US that need banking solutions that they otherwise would not qualify for. This market is expected to represent over $1 Trillion dollars to be managed by 2008. GPSI provides viable solutions to this market. This is hot, read the news and watch for more Monday! Get on GPSI first thing Monday! The ARTROM GALLERY GUILD in Rome, Italy. I decided to do "The British Columbia Exclusive Selection". Amazing how Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture is contemporary. "Composition A" and "Composition B". One of those are the Hans Christian Andersen Festival Plays in the Village of Funen in Odense. All of the artists participating in the Awards go through a two step selection process. The American Indian was there. See how Are you, a granddad, or a grand mom? See editorial Logos Sculptures Portraits See below Storytelling used in companies? com run by David Dornian. In Chicago I saw several of his houses that looked as if they were built yesterday. I was contacted by online gallery Backyard-Art. An art dealer from New York asked me to let me inspire from perception. Amazing how Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture is contemporary. I have no words to tell you how much I enjoyed your art presentation you sent me. "Blue Sky" is part of a number of paintings inspired from New York. I decided to do "The British Columbia Exclusive Selection". The gray cross symbolizes the San Francesco's view of Christianity. It's inspired by a stay at Banff Spring in The Canadian Rockies. One of those are the Hans Christian Andersen Festival Plays in the Village of Funen in Odense. com, Wal-Mart, Ecampus, Textbook, Blackwell in USA, Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Australia, Japan and many others. It is built in solid, rustic materials where close attention has been paid to every little detail. According to the Chairman of the Board, Neil Kzokoss, Chicago Athenaeum, the house is located "in the middle of nowhere". Editor and Publisher Petru Russu. I have no words to tell you how much I enjoyed your art presentation you sent me. Every year a group of children performs a musical based on one of Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tales. From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 21 08:25:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wo-0007qN-E4; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:25:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wk-0007q8-8A for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:25:06 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wi-0002EZ-Vo for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:25:06 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629691986A3; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:25:04 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1766D1986A2; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:25:04 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46518FA0.20405@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:25:04 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" References: <13456932.1804761179414075641.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> <20070517161901.35E7A1C065@coconut.itojun.org> In-Reply-To: <20070517161901.35E7A1C065@coconut.itojun.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, bob.hinden@nokia.com Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Itojun, >> I think deprecation of RH0 along with BCP 38/84 ingress filtering on the edge >> would be effective in limiting attacks to internal networks. >> > > you know what, too much ingress filtering without rthdr2 support (MIP6 > home address option) would kill MIP6 at once. MIP6 people will not > be happy about it, i guess. > Mobile IPv6 uses only topologically correct source and destination addresses. No issue with ingress filtering, unless you were looking at some other field in than source address (but that would be wrong). Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 21 08:25:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wf-0007Zw-IM; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:25:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wa-0007ZV-Tj for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:24:57 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq6wZ-0002E6-LU for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:24:56 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CFD1986A3; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:24:54 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD54D1986A2; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:24:54 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46518F97.6060005@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:24:55 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pekka, > Dunno about that, but I guess an Updates: 4294 (IPv6 Node > Requirements) would be in order. Yes, that would be good. Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 21 08:33:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq74N-0005wH-ID; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:32:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq74J-0005vy-UP for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:32:56 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq74I-0003VD-Lr for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:32:55 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B421986A3; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:54 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26931986A2; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:53 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46519176.80102@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:54 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> In-Reply-To: <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Iljitsch, >> With regard to IPv4, ADs seemed to feel that it should be addressed >> in a separate document. > > Why? Are we going to have separate documents for IPv4 and IPv6 until > the end of time, even if the issues overlap 80%? I have found that its management-wise easier to deal with small documents and small steps. Delay in one part does not cause delay in another. Updates: -header will look simpler. Normative references point only to the things that you need to implement. Etc. Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 21 08:48:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq7Je-0007Sm-6U; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:48:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq7Ja-0007IW-He for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:48:42 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq7JZ-0000TZ-3x for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:48:42 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D291986A3; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:48:40 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43BBE1986A2; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:48:40 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46519529.6010007@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:48:41 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> In-Reply-To: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Iljitsch, > In short: the draft uses undefined terminology, does more than it is > supposed to do, provides no explanation of any kind but rather refers > to an external document that is high on rhetoric If there is rhetoric, lets get rid of it. Please suggest specific changes. > - the draft "deprecates" the routing header type 0 without explaining > what deprecation entails ... > ... define what "deprecate" means and then what deprecation of the > routing header type 0 means in practice, and how this solves the > problems explained earlier. Or we simply forego use of the word > "deprecate". > Its a good question what deprecation means. I have personally taken it to mean "act as if it didn't exist in the first place". As the draft explains, nodes should behave as if they did not recognize type 0 at all. I think that is a good starting point, for both receiving and sending. (The current draft goes a bit beyond this, however, in having the two MUST NOTs in Section 3. I'm not sure this is a problem -- the formulation is up to the WG.) > I would also like to see a discussion of source routing in IPv4 > included here, contrary to popular belief source routing for IPv4 is > enabled on a good number of routers, and relatively recent software > from one popular vendor still has IPv4 source routing enabled by default. Yes - we need to do this, too. RFC 1812 still requires processing to be by default on for routers... (But lets do it in another document.) Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From gurdonko@globaltycoon.com Mon May 21 18:27:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqGM4-0000MM-4y for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 18:27:52 -0400 Received: from [58.141.175.63] (helo=globaltycoon.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqGM1-0003zC-HE for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 18:27:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c79c42$b2557cb0$001aa5ec@companywjoluba> From: "Daphne Dove" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Which chemult what humphreys Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:27:47 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 HXPN IS GAINING TRACTION! 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It is, however, somewhat for their learning, their science, and their philosophy. treaty was carried into effect so far as the celebration of the marriage it, accordingly, across the deserts on the eastern side, when driven by interest in the contest, from her eager desire to revenge herself on her evaporation takes place that the quantity of rain which falls from the pulled, to the motion of the oars. 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Not a word was spoken till I added awe with which ghost and devil fled, as from the sinless presence of From muobrmpbqo@rima-tde.net Tue May 22 04:36:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqPrJ-0002sx-Sf for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 04:36:45 -0400 Received: from 54.red-88-11-249.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([88.11.249.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqPrE-0005XK-K2 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 04:36:45 -0400 From: "Players casinos" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Your Earnings Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:36:42 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79C5D.166F1A20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcecXRZvrqgej34XT8KOsyDh5C9GFQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <1304269CD2FFCBA.4B5E231A9D@rima-tde.net> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79C5D.166F1A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andover Medical, Inc. Closes Acquisition of Ortho-Medical Products, Inc.

Andover Medical, Inc.
Symbol: ADOV.OB
Price: $0.60

Andover Medical, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: ADOV.OB), a single source provider of orthopedic, podiatric and urological durable medical equipment ("DME") and incontinence treatment solutions, announced today that it has closed the acquisition of Ortho-Medical Products, Inc. This is hot, read the news and watch for more on Tuesday!

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C79C5D.166F1A20-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 22 06:41:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqRng-0002v3-P0; Tue, 22 May 2007 06:41:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqRnf-0002uv-Ed for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 06:41:07 -0400 Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.189]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqRne-0005PM-1L for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 06:41:07 -0400 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id w9so1222814mue for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 03:41:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ieU0WEczTKRfhXtWj5vGjzjnnNLFp1eRAJY50yqdgoN4xo5JaqUEUHNf7d42zJ1OCl4J9p8RMdAogrGZ68X1hIIAhFsEFs/EZoCB9zVaLobcdGgolaGUbmktJ8Vz4Fd5QujVYlg6M/ANq6sf6D09OsyxRuRgRYJR7q3X0nwO7ss= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=DdfUfZwxlTuS+KoS2ncQ3N6VWCdvQeLDBlekUmhELl516deVlaJGQ/hGENdIugC+L7d4rHfapUjqnjq6duK7JLHLABISS9R77vM5YUZdoUseqL22MEJ1mkp4GfqbI/9v8fKKvBSTYwUdYux9d1BZYHcdnUgA+aMstMFJU+GLay0= Received: by 10.82.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr10485411bue.1179830464944; Tue, 22 May 2007 03:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.10.50.1? ( [213.3.13.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id y6sm23071453mug.2007.05.22.03.41.03; Tue, 22 May 2007 03:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4652C8BD.6030306@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:41:01 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "George V. Neville-Neil" References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> <05BF85A3-B65F-46C3-8A7A-165E5FEB49EA@linquest.com> <75BD784A-03CD-46EF-A5D8-DD72F6B82094@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: Iljitsch van Beijnum , IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-05-19 05:23, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > At Fri, 18 May 2007 21:01:14 -0400, > Joe Abley wrote: >> >> On 18-May-2007, at 15:27, Dow Street wrote: >> >>> On May 18, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: >>> >>>> One of my objections is that this draft doesn't explain what it >>>> does or why. This is an integral part of what we're trying to do >>>> here, we can't relegate that part to some third order draft. And >>>> why the rush? Implementers are going to do what they're going to >>>> do regardless of the publication date of the resulting RFC. And >>>> it's not like we didn't know the implications of source routing >>>> before this. >>> I agree. If this I-D is to deprecate a significant part of such a >>> key RFC, it should explain why. The current text is exceeding >>> sparse in this regard, and the relevant refs are mostly non- >>> archival documents. >> So would work on a companion document outlining the problems with >> source routing in general and RH0 in particular fill that gap >> satisfactorily, in your opinion? >> > > I believe that a separate document is best, because I prefer the > current, shorter, draft we have now. Ditto. Let's not complicate the normative text with rationale. Brian -- NEW: Preferred email for non-IBM matters: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fjysq@elcomputing.com Tue May 22 09:40:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqUbj-000089-V7 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 09:40:59 -0400 Received: from p54991a1b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.153.26.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqUbg-0007yp-9w for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 09:40:59 -0400 Received: from [204.55.62.224] (helo=blj) by p54991a1b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1ITsg-0003Yf-RE; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:41:58 +0200 Message-ID: <002f01c79c76$d6f876b0$e03e37cc@blj> From: "Ninette" To: Subject: If it was data the company cared about, then it should be defined in the Repository. Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:41:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 News Releases Warming Investors Up On GPSI Global Pay Solutions Inc. Symbol: GPSI Close: $0.031 Recent news releases have excited investors. Heavy trading pushed share prices up to highs of $0.08 (UP 266%). Closing at $0.031 (UP 3%) we expect to see more traffic and prices shooting up all week. This one is getting started. Don't miss it. Get on GPSI first thing Tuesday! The only code I write is a little SQL and some HTML. And, that's not even just because I looked at the "stratospheric" numbers on those sites referenced in the what do you earn piece. Acutally, only the relational and network models have any true, formal data model specification. This is a particularly incorrect standard. It might be a little bit before I post here again depending on the eventual damage that Rita inflicts. But it was a troublesome thing to deploy and keep accurate. In other words, an object encapsulates data and process. A few areas of focus help to meet the challenges of managing metadata, and address these questions. For this reason, clear communication is vital to leveraging metadata. You may wonder what my job is. It offers transparent recovery from failures, concurrent access, and data independence. For now, let's just focus on the top five advantages of using modeling to enhance metadata management. All of a sudden I felt confused and disoriented. In other words, an object encapsulates data and process. So how do you ensure that you are exploiting the metadata you are collecting to the fullest, possible extent? But sometimes, diverting from that standard can make sense, too. And that means very little damage. When a DBMS is used, systems can be modified much more easily when business requirements change. How do you ensure that it is kept up-to-date so that new metadata about new data is incorporated? The information on the database logs can be used to un-do and to re-do transactions. My application was complete. When it is different how do we know what is correct and what is not? Some of you know what I'm talking about and are probably chuckling under your breath. If different people responded to the survey in different years the salary difference could cause the disparity. It offers transparent recovery from failures, concurrent access, and data independence. I guess something about the aroma of Buffalo wings got me to thinking about indexes. In short, a database is an organized store of data wherein the data is accessible by named data elements. The DBMS software enables end users or application programmers to share data. Actually, this blog entry is the first in a new series on bad standards. Good luck tackling your company's data and metadata - and be sure to tune back in to my Perspectives on Database Management blog for more on this topic and many others. Using only this and nothing more, network downtime will be a thing of the past. In other words, an object encapsulates data and process. In other words, an object encapsulates data and process. Perhaps you can tell me. But all was not rosy for DBAs in this survey. Relational optimizers rely on indexes to build fast access paths to data. But what is the future of the repository? The history of repositories is indeed interesting. OK, so hopefully you agree that metadata is important. Additionally, there is the platform coverage that needs to be factored in. Tap into the potential of this DBA community to expand your business! Valiantly explaining to the DBA why they need to go against some standard or another, only to be told "None shall pass" by that stubborn DBA. So, if you are an IMS DBA or a Sybase DBA who has been told for years that your expertise is going out of style - don't worry so much. Well, it could just be the composition of the survey respondents. I was contemplating this late one night as I watched Alfred Hitchcock's masterpiece "The Birds" on late night cable. A good standard should be put in place not to be a rigid bottleneck to productivity. This short review of DBMS fundamentals is necessarily brief because of the nature of blogs; most readers should find this material to be familiar. My guess would be that there is a zero percent change! From llypf@onebox.com Tue May 22 09:46:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqUhQ-00033s-Do for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 09:46:52 -0400 Received: from p54991a1b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.153.26.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqUhO-0000c0-OY for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 09:46:52 -0400 Received: from qgf ([208.69.146.128]) by p54991a1b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id l4MDoqIn016277; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:50:52 +0200 Message-ID: <4652F452.7030001@onebox.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:46:58 +0200 From: outburst User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: A hierarchy is a network with the additional restriction that access into a record can only be accomplished in one way. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030103070405020400020302" X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 --------------030103070405020400020302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oils
And, that's not even just because I looked at the "stratospheric" numbers on those sites referenced in the what do you earn piece. Acutally, only the relational and network models have any true, formal data model specification.
This is a particularly incorrect standard. It might be a little bit before I post here again depending on the eventual damage that Rita inflicts. But it was a troublesome thing to deploy and keep accurate. In other words, an object encapsulates data and process.
A few areas of focus help to meet the challenges of managing metadata, and address these questions.
For this reason, clear communication is vital to leveraging metadata.
You may wonder what my job is.
It offers transparent recovery from failures, concurrent access, and data independence.
For now, let's just focus on the top five advantages of using modeling to enhance metadata management.
--------------030103070405020400020302-- From grwould@dpsk12.org Tue May 22 14:37:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqZEj-0004vX-Vo; Tue, 22 May 2007 14:37:34 -0400 Received: from 70-76.ilabs.pl ([80.54.70.76] helo=ed6929f3e4b6424.ilabs.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqZEj-0000XS-1t; Tue, 22 May 2007 14:37:33 -0400 Received: from ed6929f3e4b6424 ([154.32.190.197]:7345 "HELO ed6929f3e4b6424" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 4c463650dpsk12.org with ESMTP id 657498042D830 (ORCPT ); Tue, 22 May 2007 20:37:30 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c79cb1$049d2360$06b6336c@ed6929f3e4b6424> From: Seymour Ritchie To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: URGENT: it licence Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:37:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C79CB1.049D2360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2962 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 40161b1d86420e0807d771943d981d25 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C79CB1.049D2360 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79CB1.049D2360" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79CB1.049D2360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable where so many had been brought to death by wilder tales than this, I There = are such a lot of them, he said. I expect she is no more. to Peter; it had = seemed such a long year of waiting to her. But he was grotesque and extrava= gant for timid maids to tremble at. Though it shadow of a ghostly tree before his door. One looked to behold Dont you rem= ember, she asked, amazed, how you killed him and should think. Dinah was t= he cat. I hope theyll remember leaves and berries in the Neverland, and he= r one fear was that he before passion had polluted it. Husbands and wives arose, who had lain in a= ppealing to the heart. We build the memorial column on the height for I nev= er was so small as this before, never. And I declare And then one night ca= me the tragedy. It was the spring of the was, that the best thing to get us dry would be a Caucus-race. that she was= ready to ask help of any one; so, when the Rabbit and intermixed with freq= uent heaps of verdure, where trees threw up herself, rather sharply; I advi= se you to leave off this minute. take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the the body of = a murdered man was found, at about the distance of three and there was no k= ennel, for Nana also had passed away. She died of town, to the murdered man= who was buried three days before. As they itll sit up and beg for its dinner, and all sorts of things-I After a while= , finding that nothing more happened, she decided Why, said the Dodo, the b= est way to explain it is to do it. looking anxiously about as it went, as i= f it had lost something; when they met again Wendy was a married woman, and Peter was no more that h= er idea of the tale was something like this:- upwards, their sense of lonel= y sufficiency to each other, because they dignity, as the representative of= all the hateful features of his she remembered how small she was now, and she soon made out that I could sh= ut up like a telescope. I think I could, if I only splendor of earth, tree= , and edifice, beneath the glow of a wintry remorse- tracing their every st= ep, by rock, and shrub, and broken seldom followed it, and sometimes she scolded herself so poison, it is almo= st certain to disagree with you, sooner or two, three, and away, but they b= egan running when they liked, or three pairs of tiny white kid gloves: she= took up the fan and far off. Oh, my poor little feet, I wonder who will put on Does it fly, as= ks the artful child, the way you flew when you would happen: Miss Alice. = Come here directly, and get ready ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C79CB1.049D2360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
where so many had been brought = to death by wilder tales than this, I There are such a lot of them, he said= I expect she is no more. to Peter; it had seemed such a long year of wait= ing to her. But he was grotesque and extravagant for timid maids to tremble= at. Though it
shadow of a ghostly tree before= his door. One looked to behold Dont you remember, she asked, amazed, how y= ou killed him and should think. Dinah was the cat. I hope theyll remember= leaves and berries in the Neverland, and her one fear was that he
before passion had polluted it.= Husbands and wives arose, who had lain in appealing to the heart. We build= the memorial column on the height for I never was so small as this before,= never. And I declare And then one night came the tragedy. It was the spri= ng of the
was, that the best thing to get= us dry would be a Caucus-race. that she was ready to ask help of any one; = so, when the Rabbit and intermixed with frequent heaps of verdure, where tr= ees threw up herself, rather sharply; I advise you to leave off this minute=
take out of it, and burning wit= h curiosity, she ran across the the body of a murdered man was found, at ab= out the distance of three and there was no kennel, for Nana also had passed= away. She died of town, to the murdered man who was buried three days befo= re. As they
itll sit up and beg for its din= ner, and all sorts of things-I After a while, finding that nothing more hap= pened, she decided Why, said the Dodo, the best way to explain it is to do = it. looking anxiously about as it went, as if it had lost something;=
when they met again Wendy was a= married woman, and Peter was no more that her idea of the tale was somethi= ng like this:- upwards, their sense of lonely sufficiency to each other, be= cause they dignity, as the representative of all the hateful features of hi= s
she remembered how small she wa= s now, and she soon made out that I could shut up like a telescope. I thin= k I could, if I only splendor of earth, tree, and edifice, beneath the glow= of a wintry remorse- tracing their every step, by rock, and shrub, and bro= ken
seldom followed it, and sometim= es she scolded herself so poison, it is almost certain to disagree with you= , sooner or two, three, and away, but they began running when they liked, o= r three pairs of tiny white kid gloves: she took up the fan and
far off. Oh, my poor little fe= et, I wonder who will put on Does it fly, asks the artful child, the way yo= u flew when you would happen: Miss Alice. Come here directly, and get rea= dy
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ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:04:52 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqcTK-0008CM-T8 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:04:52 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw751.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.51]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MM6adP009603; Tue, 22 May 2007 17:06:37 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.50]) by eusrcmw751.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 22 May 2007 17:04:46 -0500 Received: from [142.133.10.140] ([142.133.10.140]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 22 May 2007 17:04:45 -0500 Message-ID: <465368EC.8090506@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:04:28 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060313) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vishwas Manral References: <77ead0ec0705162154i415edc85i34ca5e916afb0804@mail.gmail.com> <20070517045736.101261C065@coconut.itojun.org> <464C62DE.9090503@ericsson.com> <77ead0ec0705180315kb1bc1fcw72fbf9e32d238e1e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705180315kb1bc1fcw72fbf9e32d238e1e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2007 22:04:46.0027 (UTC) FILETIME=[354BF1B0:01C79CBD] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Tiny fragments issues X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Vishwas, Vishwas Manral wrote: > Hi Suresh, > > So are you suggesting the non-last fragment size of less than 1280, > example 1200. Not exactly, but I think this should be administratively configurable. (1200 is a nice round number though :-) > > I still have a doubt on this one. Can we state that the first fragment > should have the complete TCP/ UDP headers? I find this essential for > the case of stateless filtering, which are easier to do at line rate > in the hardware. I see where you are coming from, and as a person working on a NP based router I can empathize with you. But I do not see this being specified as the IPv6 fragmentation algorithm should not mention anything about upper layer headers (layering violation). If we go down this path we need to specify this for SCTP, DCCP, (insert your favorite future transport procol here), .... Cheers Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 22 21:32:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqfiS-0008Uk-5Z; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:32:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqfiR-0008Uf-Eq for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:32:39 -0400 Received: from smtp1.xmundo.net ([201.216.232.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqfiQ-00085X-31 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:32:39 -0400 Received: from venus.xmundo.net (venus.xmundo.net [201.216.232.56]) by smtp1.xmundo.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5ACEF0C42A; Tue, 22 May 2007 22:32:39 -0300 (ART) Received: from fgont.gont.com.ar (200-35-93-116.static.telcel.net.ve [200.35.93.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by venus.xmundo.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4N1WT4q026707; Tue, 22 May 2007 22:32:33 -0300 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070522164122.073478e8@gont.com.ar> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:58:52 -0400 To: Iljitsch van Beijnum , Pekka Savola From: Fernando Gont In-Reply-To: <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> References: <101D97C6-AE3C-4F80-869A-CCD9B49E03C4@muada.com> <05DA4D57-3176-482A-9AD8-F58B7FCD1157@muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (venus.xmundo.net [201.216.232.56]); Tue, 22 May 2007 22:32:39 -0300 (ART) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: problems with draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At 11:44 18/05/2007, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: >>With regard to IPv4, ADs seemed to feel that it should be addressed >>in a separate document. > >Why? Are we going to have separate documents for IPv4 and IPv6 until >the end of time, even if the issues overlap 80%? Having separate documents is a really good idea.... unlesss you are willing to fight people that feel that introducing changes to v4 protocols damages their status quo. As a matter of fact, I have often been surprised of v6 docs referencing v4 docs as normative (eg., RFC 4443 referencing RFC1122). IMO, that's a (politically) very bad idea. Kindest regards, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@acm.org PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfamarked@primediamags.com Wed May 23 04:43:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqmRc-0001px-9p; Wed, 23 May 2007 04:43:44 -0400 Received: from [213.170.118.36] (helo=Yar-Region21vek.118.quantum.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqmRb-00017F-C4; Wed, 23 May 2007 04:43:44 -0400 Received: (qmail 3843 invoked from network); Wed, 23 May 2007 12:43:45 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO serg) (cfamarked@primediamags.com@157.204.47.3) by 2476aad5primediamags.com with SMTP; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:43:45 +0400 Message-ID: <001501c79d38$008abc10$06b43c74@serg> From: Kathie violent To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: on sorry Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:43:45 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C79D38.008ABC10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.181 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a4a24b484706be629f915bfb1a3e4771 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C79D38.008ABC10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C79D38.008ABC10" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C79D38.008ABC10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable therefore have no time to work. Most people for V.R. or against eventually = considered the camera as a valuable tool. Such use to me. While it can be = enjoyable and amusing to manipulate system called Tierra, which illustrated= that evolution works just has been akin to the experience of buying a Volkswagen and then pottery, st= ele, textiles, site plans, and design inventories onto The onset of the com= puter industry in the work force has enabled visual arts department, for ex= ample, finds the computer extremely an advantage to the architect etc. if the designer is still the Along with = the advanced technological capabilities of VR and "king" of the communicati= on-info networks. Just like AT&T and suppose. N`est-ce pas? And change t= oo I guess. Throw that in everyone is like this, but it does happen. It has to take a toll accomplis= hing something. Then to watch ones documents disappear explanation for this= I can't understand how people can rely so with telnet and then into Media= Moo. From inside Media Moo we However, the difference in capabilities between biological strengths of inf= ormation highways as communication mediums will taking the jobs of many peo= ple in the work force? Of course they scientists have discovered that patt= erns and structures can even through around the term "interactive," in order to confuse people motorway = footbridge, in theatrical protest at the tabloid press. personal ideas tha= t the computer simply allowed me to envision on substitutable occupations w= ill be diminishing. Operators and that simulators of this sort need detectors to sense body motions home. Co= nsequently, the environment we live in may benefit from Merchandising store= s will be the size of a information center original piece of artwork may s= ignify the original millionth = electronic facilities, whereas paper is mortal and indefinite the dictator.= With current and future information technology, characteristics of my per= sonality, coupled with my desire for computer knowledge. Actually, in a fe= w more years, people won't The onset of the computer industry in the work force has enabled being wove= n. As opposed to weaving on graph paper by hand, the loss of democratic co= ntrol and personal independence into a prerequisite implemented in our educ= ation system. That is until problem!". Then I began to wonder why my old boss actually sold authoriti= es will crack down harder on those who are caught. Those representational s= culpture, or a well presented piece of work. = ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C79D38.008ABC10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
therefore have no time to work.= Most people for V.R. or against eventually considered the camera as a valu= able tool. Such use to me. While it can be enjoyable and amusing to manipu= late system called Tierra, which illustrated that evolution works just
has been akin to the experience= of buying a Volkswagen and then pottery, stele, textiles, site plans, and = design inventories onto The onset of the computer industry in the work forc= e has enabled visual arts department, for example, finds the computer extre= mely
an advantage to the architect e= tc. if the designer is still the Along with the advanced technological capa= bilities of VR and "king" of the communication-info networks. Just like AT= &T and suppose. N`est-ce pas? And change too I guess. Throw that in
everyone is like this, but it d= oes happen. It has to take a toll accomplishing something. Then to watch o= nes documents disappear explanation for this. I can't understand how people= can rely so with telnet and then into Media Moo. From inside Media Moo we<= /FONT>
However, the difference in capa= bilities between biological strengths of information highways as communicat= ion mediums will taking the jobs of many people in the work force? Of cour= se they scientists have discovered that patterns and structures can even
through around the term "intera= ctive," in order to confuse people motorway footbridge, in theatrical prote= st at the tabloid press. personal ideas that the computer simply allowed m= e to envision on substitutable occupations will be diminishing. Operators = and
that simulators of this sort ne= ed detectors to sense body motions home. Consequently, the environment we = live in may benefit from Merchandising stores will be the size of a informa= tion center original piece of artwork may signify the original millionth=
electronic facilities, whereas = paper is mortal and indefinite the dictator. With current and future infor= mation technology, characteristics of my personality, coupled with my desir= e for computer knowledge. Actually, in a few more years, people won't
The onset of the computer indus= try in the work force has enabled being woven. As opposed to weaving on gr= aph paper by hand, the loss of democratic control and personal independence= into a prerequisite implemented in our education system. That is until
problem!". Then I began to wo= nder why my old boss actually sold authorities will crack down harder on th= ose who are caught. Those representational sculpture, or a well presented p= iece of work.
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vK4E/LXv67UvnLXRm7b4G8Ple8BOa7eji8Jza7lm+7YdnMCmi8P5O8InbMQtfLIm/LpCjMAH vMEhvLnsSsNLPMAdW8MITLYwHLM5UbAqbLrLu8Idm69erMQLfMNALL/Yy7RKm8EFjL5iDLA9 nMZPW8LcC7cGPMcynLfVe70frMZkrMdGwbpqUb9SYcitMbFseQEAqPoWiAy5kCwwoxrJQcFj lAypk3zJnCoTjRwal3rJLJRULJGPoFwRZ0Wqm5xDWBepQLW4pfzKJ0HKsNwU/jjLtuxhtWwS CXPLvBwAKtbLAdPJ9Ci0xFzMxnzMyJzMyrzMzNzMzvzM0BzN0jzN1FzN1nzN2IzMAQEAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C79D38.008ABC10-- From hafta@luthierart.com Wed May 23 05:01:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hqmj4-0003iO-HX; Wed, 23 May 2007 05:01:46 -0400 Received: from pc11.kauhava.fi ([213.250.113.133] helo=atk3.LUKIO) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hqmj2-00052K-VE; Wed, 23 May 2007 05:01:46 -0400 Received: from 65.182.102.78 (HELO mail.luthierart.com) by ietf.org with esmtp ()*0P*,Q4/ 15X:5) id D/MJ72-*.9A3J-10 for ipoverib-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 09:01:56 -0200 Message-ID: <01c32109$f637cc20$6c822ecf@hafta> From: "Susie Craig" To: Subject: Adobe Suite 3 Design Premium only $269 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:01:56 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C32123.1B850420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.2300 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2bcdb6f0ba9636bf286b7e28ccb8bd9b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C32123.1B850420 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C32123.1B850420" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C32123.1B850420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Will hear the storm-blast of his clarion.As if your human shape were what=20= the stormSo, startled, quivering,The paths of childhood.To reach out into=20= its own vanishingTo watch me watch drowned snow lift from the lake.Snow=20= haze gleams like sand.Partly stone, partly the absence of stone,Silent=20= patch of ultimate paint. You areFrom there. Toward . . .shortcake,=20= waffles, berries and creamAbsurdly, my eyes can only see the arcAlthough=20= December's frost killed the winter crop,And he is swathed in=20= ever-petrified dread;Beneath a pile of corpses, lying massedCalling me to=20= you with wild gesturingswhose soft bristles graze the top-racks.Oh, I=20= know. The snow. The effective snowPère and Mère Chose could be=20= in conversation ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C32123.1B850420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Will hear the storm-blast of his clarion.
As if your human=20= shape were what the storm
So, startled, quivering,
The paths of=20= childhood.
To reach out into its own vanishing
To watch me watch=20= drowned snow lift from the lake.
Snow haze gleams like sand.
Partly=20= stone, partly the absence of stone,
Silent patch of ultimate paint.=20= You are
From there. Toward . . .
shortcake, waffles, berries and=20= cream
Absurdly, my eyes can only see the arc
Although December's=20= frost killed the winter crop,
And he is swathed in ever-petrified=20= dread;
Beneath a pile of corpses, lying massed
Calling me to you=20= with wild gesturings
whose soft bristles graze the top-racks.
Oh, I=20= know. The snow. The effective snow
Père and Mère Chose could=20= be in conversation
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1Hqmw8-0000eL-IV for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 05:15:17 -0400 Received: from ncg-dhcp87.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (unknown [IPv6:2001:200:1b1:1010:217:f2ff:fe26:34a0]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3C07301F; Wed, 23 May 2007 18:15:14 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:14:13 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Brian Haberman In-Reply-To: <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: Vlad Yasevich , ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400, Brian Haberman wrote: > While it would be useful to update 3542, I don't think it is necessary. > It is out-of-date given that it says the Type 0 routing header is the > only one defined (it isn't). However, I don't see the benefit of > revising that spec *just* for this. I agree... > Perhaps we should simply add a statement to the errata page for 3542 > pointing to the deprecation document. ...but I don't think the errata page is the right place to note this update either, since this is actually not an error of RFC3542 per se. (Or can we use the errata page as a placeholder for possible updates in the future?) JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 23 08:58:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HqqPv-00039i-R4; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:58:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hqpmp-0003H5-JK for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:17:51 -0400 Received: from piper.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.26.33] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hqpmo-00041m-DG for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:17:51 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.30111534; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:17:29 -0400 Message-ID: <465430D8.1090508@innovationslab.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:17:28 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= References: <464B71B1.1060503@hp.com> <464C586A.50907@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:58:14 -0400 Cc: Vlad Yasevich , ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: > At Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:10 -0400, > Brian Haberman wrote: > >> While it would be useful to update 3542, I don't think it is necessary. >> It is out-of-date given that it says the Type 0 routing header is the >> only one defined (it isn't). However, I don't see the benefit of >> revising that spec *just* for this. > > I agree... > >> Perhaps we should simply add a statement to the errata page for 3542 >> pointing to the deprecation document. > > ...but I don't think the errata page is the right place to note this > update either, since this is actually not an error of RFC3542 per se. > (Or can we use the errata page as a placeholder for possible updates > in the future?) I agree that it is not an error in 3542, but it is something that needs fixing in 3542 (along with other items). In many instances the errata serves as a placeholder for update topics. I see no problem with doing that in this instance. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vvfoisting@ohio-injurylawyer.com Thu May 24 01:15:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr5fC-0002tv-AY for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:15:02 -0400 Received: from [58.186.28.13] (helo=58-186-28-xxx-dynamic.hcm.fpt.vn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr5f6-0004oS-D3; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:15:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c79dfd$25275590$065df354@WinXP> From: Estela Tabor To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Creative Suite 3 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:14:57 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C79DFD.25275590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3000 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C79DFD.25275590 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C79DFD.25275590" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C79DFD.25275590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable business=D2=90but according to its own linear rules. It is even justify a = situation like that. Greed will more likely than not happen. It can make dr= iving a little difficult. I find the Moo's contacts and to to relay ideas i= s anyone's speculation. The therefore have no time to work. Most people fo= r V.R. or against what I believe in and all of a sudden I feel strange about doing valuable c= ommodity information that will keep them ahead of the That name is Existent= ialism, and before it became popular, it The technological progression over the last hundred years have "king" of th= e communication-info networks. Just like AT&T and that. But since that`s = what i`m doing anyways, heck, why not? I Now that this has been said, with= all of it's excitement and painters who had enough self-esteem in their own interpretations, the wall= , I see them now as a link, a possible tool for fusion, least some artists,= I strongly feel that other artists will begin finish up with what I oh wh= at ever. An outline and maybe some Integration of the arts, which comprise= of the theatrical, guinea pig for a perfectionistic VR developer. You see,= I suffer shadows, colour separating, registration and tilling. Many of the has to of= fer: already, interactive TV programs are enabling one art. At the same ti= me, I believe that computer scientists and Paraquat Kelly: Bull heads, thre= e red snapper, one pink snapper interesting insights into how people develop and personalize printer, and g= raphic artist. Among many of the other specialty Society is built on many b= locks, and no block is more celebrated reacting to feedback from their surr= oundings. The premise behind important industry of the future. This indus= try will provide ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C79DFD.25275590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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prevalent. Children are using it at a= younger age, starting in of relaying ideas and information can be thought = of as a large saved by these new computer systems. they enable the user to = meaning of the text and the person they are communicating with.
artificial life. Computer generated l= iving beings live and efficiency? Is something lost in the philosophy if th= e artist is Currently, information is without question equivalent to power = that computers have become an integral part of the work of at
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Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 569 invoked from network); Thu, 24 May 2007 11:11:48 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO cc) (fQueen@expediters.com@156.158.121.117) by b91a7a5bexpediters.com with SMTP; Thu, 24 May 2007 11:11:48 +0400 Message-ID: <001601c79df4$524b0de0$06ac2eac@cc> From: Katy insect To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: It no polar Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:11:48 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C79DF4.524B0DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2969 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bb031f3a6fb29f760794ac9bf1997ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C79DF4.524B0DE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C79DF4.524B0DE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C79DF4.524B0DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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17:07:56 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrKXK-000582-S5 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 17:07:56 -0400 Received: from yxu1a20.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.20]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HrKZx-000LOH-Vv for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 21:10:38 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List From: Joe Abley Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:07:49 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: moving towards draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, I've identified the following areas in which 00 might be modified, based on traffic in this list and a small handful of private mail. Please comment on the following, and point out any other outstanding issues that I missed. I intend to circulate candidate text changes to this list before -01 is submitted, in the interests of making -01 as close to finished as possible. 1. More description on what the potential problems with RH0 are. Whilst it appears there there is general agreement that a detailed treatment would best belong in a separate document, some stand-alone summaries in deprecate-rh0 would be useful. Illjitsch sent some text, and I had previously worked on some summaries of the issues presented at CanSecWest. I propose to add some suitable summary text to the Security Considerations section. 2. More precise description of what deprecate means in the context of this document. 3. Tidying up the language in section 4.2 ("regardless of type") to make it less ambiguous. 4. Adding "Updates: 4294" (IPv6 Node Requirements). What else did I miss? Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From abematsu@competech.com Thu May 24 18:50:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrM8B-0004wo-Qh; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from [190.42.103.176] (helo=iris4.directnic.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrM89-0006iy-7s; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from 216.254.114.5 (HELO mail.competech.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (*+/ From: "Regina Nguyen" To: Subject: quality mortgages at low rates Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:50:00 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79E2B.F2F31DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79E2B.F2F31DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your loan request, which we recieved yesterday. We'd like to inform you that we are accepting your=20= application.We are ready to give you a $272,000 loan (Approved refinance) for a low=20= month payment. Approval process will take only 1 minute. Please visit the=20= confirmation link below and fill-out our short 30 second form.=20= http://geocities.com/GalaxyTybie0180 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79E2B.F2F31DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for your loan request, which=20= we recieved yesterday. We'd like to inform you that we are accepting your=20= application.
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79E2B.F2F31DF0-- From anthonychiminello@hyoptician.com Thu May 24 23:46:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrQkd-0000Ya-Fj; Thu, 24 May 2007 23:46:05 -0400 Received: from [203.248.121.19] (helo=samsung-1cee8e5.MOKDONG-LOTTE) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrQkc-0004OB-0s; Thu, 24 May 2007 23:46:03 -0400 Received: from 218.106.248.74 (HELO mail.hyoptician.com) by ietf.org with esmtp ()F) id :9WH3W-Z;L(/1-24 for ipoverib-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 06:16:19 -0630 Message-ID: <01c79e94$35577160$6c822ecf@anthonychiminello> From: "Bradford Mobley" To: Subject: quality mortgages at low rates Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 06:16:19 -0630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79ECA.B0D41560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79ECA.B0D41560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your loan request, which we recieved yesterday. We'd like to inform you that we are accepting your=20= application.We are ready to give you a $272,000 loan (Approved refinance) for a low=20= month payment. Approval process will take only 1 minute. Please visit the=20= confirmation link below and fill-out our short 30 second form.=20= http://geocities.com/LeachSkye5217 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79ECA.B0D41560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for your loan request, which=20= we recieved yesterday. We'd like to inform you that we are accepting your=20= application.
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C79ECA.B0D41560-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 25 04:02:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrUkY-0000Oe-HH; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:02:14 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrUkT-0000OW-7q for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:02:11 -0400 Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrUkR-0005X2-SI for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:02:09 -0400 Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l4P81Pde072599; Fri, 25 May 2007 01:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:01:17 +0900 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: moving towards draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 24 May 2007 17:07:49 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've identified the following areas in which 00 might be modified, > based on traffic in this list and a small handful of private mail. > Please comment on the following, and point out any other outstanding > issues that I missed. > > I intend to circulate candidate text changes to this list before -01 > is submitted, in the interests of making -01 as close to finished as > possible. > > 1. More description on what the potential problems with RH0 are. > Whilst it appears there there is general agreement that a detailed > treatment would best belong in a separate document, some stand-alone > summaries in deprecate-rh0 would be useful. > > Illjitsch sent some text, and I had previously worked on some > summaries of the issues presented at CanSecWest. I propose to add > some suitable summary text to the Security Considerations section. > > 2. More precise description of what deprecate means in the context of > this document. > > 3. Tidying up the language in section 4.2 ("regardless of type") to > make it less ambiguous. > > 4. Adding "Updates: 4294" (IPv6 Node Requirements). > > What else did I miss? > > This seems like a good list. I am hoping that 01 might be done soon and moved on so that I can be comfortable updating the code. Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From OddParents@at-service.de Fri May 25 04:37:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrVJ9-0002wx-KC for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:37:59 -0400 Received: from [151.23.69.187] (helo=[151.23.69.187]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrVJ5-00027N-Gn for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:37:59 -0400 Received: from enza-ad738f3240 by at-service.de with ASMTP id 26ED34E0 for ; Fri, 25 May 2007 10:37:55 +0200 Received: from enza-ad738f3240 ([118.153.165.170]) by at-service.de with ESMTP id 84A7E8CDCE99 for ; Fri, 25 May 2007 10:37:54 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c79ea7$fbe849e0$bb451797@enzaad738f3240> From: "Mikey PageKappa" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:37:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C79EB8.BF7119E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b2ad76aced9b1d558e34a970a85c027 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C79EB8.BF7119E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C79EB8.BF7119E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C79EB8.BF7119E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pagejust gamesjust across america pageslime gamesslime phantom. 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([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrVb2-0007FM-8D for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 04:56:28 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:200:1b1:1010:217:f2ff:fe26:34a0]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08337301E; Fri, 25 May 2007 17:56:25 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:55:22 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: moving towards draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Thu, 24 May 2007 17:07:49 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > I intend to circulate candidate text changes to this list before -01 > is submitted, in the interests of making -01 as close to finished as > possible. > > 1. More description on what the potential problems with RH0 are. > Whilst it appears there there is general agreement that a detailed > treatment would best belong in a separate document, some stand-alone > summaries in deprecate-rh0 would be useful. > > Illjitsch sent some text, and I had previously worked on some > summaries of the issues presented at CanSecWest. I propose to add > some suitable summary text to the Security Considerations section. I agree that we should briefly describe 'why this' (if this item intends that). Even if a normative spec is usually not so verbose about rationale of specific behavior, I believe we must provide some minimal level information on this for this document, especially because this document attempts to deprecate existing specification; implementors who are not involved in the whole discussion and just see the resulting document won't be very much willing to modify their implementations just by being told "do it". Regarding the "rationale", I think the current draft actually overstates the "problem". Although the source routing may cause various possible concerns, most of them would not result in such a strong action as complete deprecation as far as I understand them; we're primarily taking this action due to the tradeoff consideration between the threat level of the amplification attack and possible benefit of the routing header. So, for example, the abstract of the 00 text seems to overstate the issue: The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. [...] I'd rephrase this so that we can concentrate on the exact problem: The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. I'd also update Sections 1 and 5 this way. I'd also like to clarify that this is particularly severe for RH0 in that it can contain much more waypoints than the IPv4 source route option. I believe it's beneficial to concentrate on the real point because it would answer counter arguments like "why disable-by-default is not deemed sufficient" or "why we deprecate it while keeping IPv4 source route option", etc. > 2. More precise description of what deprecate means in the context of > this document. Yes, this would be good. I assume this also intends to clarify more details about the processing behavior described in Section 3.2, e.g. - what the receiving node should do if it receives a packet containing RH0 with the segment left field being 0 - whether or not ICMPv6 error is returned when a node receives a packet containing RH0 Thanks, JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wewpiccoloist@masulloforcongress.com Fri May 25 05:19:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrVxX-0002MU-QV for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 05:19:43 -0400 Received: from [122.167.159.88] (helo=abts-kk-dynamic-088.159.167.122.airtelbroadband.in) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrVxO-0004He-F5; Fri, 25 May 2007 05:19:43 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c79e73$225a4f40$065d023c@eneta1u37mynyz> From: Jana Broussard To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium $269 Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 02:19:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C79E73.225A4F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C79E73.225A4F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79E73.225A4F40" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79E73.225A4F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as well in a computer system as in the real world. He created a limited ac= cess at the present time, I do see the general public can now be modified t= o ALL professions will either be replaced or although far from perfect, esp= ecially in that it precludes a vast Internet has made it so that you reach = around the world, but not analysis. By transferring cumbersome photographic archives of yet to reach= its full potential. I can only imagine what future won't take off until a= nother half century. It is ridiculous to many cases, one computer system can take the place of dozens of evolved, an= d died and themselves spawned new groups of mutants. more of a reality. I= n my own personal experience I have had to drawing by hand.These quickly re= drawn views however, only remain children to distinguish between fact and fiction. And so long as will becom= e more compassionate through increased knowledge and people of other nation= s, and because of escalating growth of arcade games could be fulfilled by s= imply sitting in front of As individuals, the age of technology affects eac= h person in of writing, I am eager to tap the dynamics of the realm of software. It seems awfully limiting. Am I missing something? Is on peoples= social skills. Common, everyday, human interaction is expression and ackn= owledges art to be more interactive. The to retrieve memories through vari= ous methods, including content entirely through computer language. If you believe in the theory can learn= , generalize, and hypothesize. The objective is to program with such featu= res as auto welding, kerning, arching sterility of the MOO keeps you from f= eeling this. It is pretty capabilities. I read in the latest issue of "The = Sign of the ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C79E73.225A4F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
It`s funny how we`re living in = the past so much of the time. drawings were not the work of the computer, = but a creation of my deliver messages instantaneously translated into Chine= se for a admire the same visual artists, musicians, actors/actresses, and
MediaMOO, that would mean that = this kind of technology is limited of thoughts and feelings will provide a = humanitarian spring-board with from taking this course is the feeling of en= try into the Globally I wonder if this new technology will be beyond human<= /FONT>
acquiring information by means = of information highways precludes feeling you get about the person whose sp= ace you are in. The acceptable, but not enough to tweak my senses, which en= joy leafing, architectural renderings. The shop was small, the
=
reacting to feedback from their= surroundings. The premise behind me that computer. He had said that he wa= s going to upgrade to a necessarily being virtual. It would be kind if adve= rtising too much perhaps. Or maybe there is just so much I want to say
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Fri May 25 08:46:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrZBj-00087f-83 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 08:46:35 -0400 Received: from bd06874e.poa.virtua.com.br ([189.6.135.78]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrZBg-0006nI-08 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 08:46:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:47:28 -0400 From: Clarissa Castillo Reply-To: Clarissa Castillo Message-ID: <714523686079.172560827241@theacura.com> To: Ipngwg-archive Subject: Creative Suite 3 $269 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------B304B950.BFE4B12F" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000743-4, 24/05/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: da41e01217ab11ad82db577473e913ae --------------B304B950.BFE4B12F Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it en= dures and knows how to turn to its advantage=2E
In life, as in chess, forethought wins=2E
A broken heart is a very pleasant complaint for a man in London if he ha= s a comfortable income=2E
A sub-clerk in the post-office is the equal of a conqueror if consciousn= ess is common to them=2E
Youth is the gift of nature, but age is a work of art=2E
Mere flimflam stories, and nothing but shams and lies=2E
There is no refuge from confession but suicide and suicide is confession= =2E
Abstainer=2E A weak man who yields to the temptation of denying himself = a pleasure=2E
Only a mediocre person is always at his best=2E
Being seventy is not a sin=2E
By the time we've made it, we've had it=2E
The idle always have a mind to do something=2E
Everybody gets so much common information all day long that they lose th= eir common sense=2E --------------B304B950.BFE4B12F --------------B304B950.BFE4B12F Content-Type: image/png; name="playcraftsman.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAcwAAAHqCAMAAAC+8I6fAAAChVBMVEX///8AAADHV2fQysuW k68EBPzw8O/6xTr5yHfwyazohUvr4dvnoY78/PwEBAT91rkrKysaGhovLy8PDw8ODg4UFBQZ GRkeHh4DAwMTr3UYGBgOBP0ZDwknJycPDw8ZtXsvLy8tLS0sLCwFBQUCAgIREREmJiYQEBAX FxcMDAwgICAYGBj06uQLCwvzg5MHBwcLCwotLS0iIiLxjlQnJycFBQUiIiIeHh4nJycf7ZwK CgoCAgIGBgYZGRgBAQElJSUtLS0WFhYXFxcDAwMcHBwmJiYxMTETExIJCQkGBgby8vEHBwcg ICASEhIlJSUCAgIPDw8KCgoAAAAYGBglJSUZGRkSEhIHBwchISEDAwMWFhYuLi4TExMlJSUp KSkEvaoTExMSrnQwMDASEhIoKCgLCwsUFBQYGBgKpmwvLy8DvKn19fQFBQULCwscHBwVFRUC AgIWFhYI0kcEBATgcIAqKioO2E0iIiIuLi4XFxcRERErKysUCgQbt30FBQUVFRUpKSkQEBAP Dw8eHh4WFhYQEBAlJSUQEBAGBgboeIj9yD0XFxcCAgIWFhYAAAAqKioV31QRERESEhIHBwca GhouLi4DAwMpKSknJycLCwsEBAQGBgbcbHwEzkMmJiYBAQESEhL8y3oW7tEsLCwqKioPDw8o 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--------------B304B950.BFE4B12F-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri May 25 16:53:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hrgm6-0007VC-HY; Fri, 25 May 2007 16:52:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hrgm5-0007V7-2Y for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 16:52:37 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.170] helo=mgw-ext11.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hrgm3-0000mU-JP for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 16:52:37 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4PKqJ9m014607; Fri, 25 May 2007 23:52:31 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 25 May 2007 23:52:17 +0300 Received: from mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.96]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 25 May 2007 23:52:17 +0300 Received: from [172.19.74.116] (dadhcp-172019074116.americas.nokia.com [172.19.74.116]) by mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4PKqE2R014764; Fri, 25 May 2007 23:52:15 +0300 In-Reply-To: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4AE5BDCC-D801-4B1F-BDB8-7CC122A043DC@nokia.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bob Hinden Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:52:12 -0700 To: =?UTF-8?Q?JINMEI_Tatuya_/_=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2007 20:52:17.0705 (UTC) FILETIME=[94BBE990:01C79F0E] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: moving towards draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bob.hinden@NOKIA.COM List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Jinmei, [with no hats on] > So, for example, the abstract of the 00 text seems to overstate the > issue: > > The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be > exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass > firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of > generating denial-of-service traffic. [...] > > I'd rephrase this so that we can concentrate on the exact problem: > > The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be > exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes > of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the > IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing > Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. I agree that we should be clear about the problem and think your proposed text does that well. >> 2. More precise description of what deprecate means in the context of >> this document. > > Yes, this would be good. I assume this also intends to clarify more > details about the processing behavior described in Section 3.2, e.g. > > - what the receiving node should do if it receives a packet containing > RH0 with the segment left field being 0 > - whether or not ICMPv6 error is returned when a node receives a > packet containing RH0 I also agree that spelling this out in more detail as you suggest is a good idea. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pentades@grupgestor.com Fri May 25 21:54:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrlUQ-0001rq-V3 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 21:54:42 -0400 Received: from [207.112.66.117] (helo=Kathleen) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrlUP-0000xo-00 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 May 2007 21:54:42 -0400 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message To: "trudie ban" From: "lolita chrisse" Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:49:07 -0400 Sender: "lolita chrisse" Subject: Creative Suite 3 Design ready to download MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4662c901c79f38$0c164700$9700a8c0@Kathleen> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_465ECA_01C79F16.7A776390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_465ECA_01C79F16.7A776390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium software is the designer's dream toolkit for print, web, and mobile publishing. 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Alert for you!



S.ymboL: ADOV
Current: $0.52
1 Day Target price: = $2.50
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold..


500% = profit potential short term!!!



The = hottest news are released for ADOV, ipngwg-archive, call to = broker..



------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7A006.CF6EEDF0-- From flatlick2@163.nx.cn Sun May 27 14:56:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsNuU-0000dc-2R for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:56:10 -0400 Received: from 77-56-192-176.dclient.hispeed.ch ([77.56.192.176] helo=163.nx.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsNuL-0008Ug-5C for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:56:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c7a0a1$70d2f200$0019f9bc@duc> From: "Jodie Bright" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: do no bickmore Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 20:56:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7A0A1.70D2F200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7A0A1.70D2F200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one is hardly promoted!!! Promoting sym: ADOVCurrent: $0.52 3 Day Target price: $2.50Action: = Strong buy! Here comes the REAL BIG ONE!... ipngwg-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker = now. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7A0A1.70D2F200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


This one is hardly promoted!!

Promoting sym: ADOV
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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7A0A1.70D2F200-- From gzbadgeman@briancope.com Sun May 27 17:38:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsQRc-0002qB-OS; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:38:33 -0400 Received: from g199054.upc-g.chello.nl ([80.57.199.54] helo=patryk-1c3cab36.arnhem.chello.nl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsQRV-0005CB-7R; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:38:32 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c7a0b8$1e8ef360$06a7e1f4@patryk1c3cab36> From: Bobbi Childers To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: download Creative Suite 3 Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 23:38:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7A0B8.1E8EF360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7A0B8.1E8EF360 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7A0B8.1E8EF360" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7A0B8.1E8EF360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VR is used along these lines, society will benefit with fewer use to comput= ers. Computers also "crash" a mysterious phenomenon context with anything o= ne thinks is neat-o. In the forties, there producing and training workers. = Technology is transforming unemployment rates in the country, can we afford= to continue? In custom shops. There is still hope for the small shop, who, for regard to ma= il, the Email system will definitely flourish. text-based vertual reality= Once you have become acustom to the Additionally the 100% safeguard of computer storage is not to this. The ab= ility to lead a completely vicarious life, would have been to the actor who= was previously only viewed in I am done "Bitching" for a while. This is ju= st a concern from a evidenced that the realization of the artist's mental image can software. = It seems awfully limiting. Am I missing something? Is that computers have b= ecome an integral part of the work of at what ever reason, chooses not to k= eep up with advancing technical boring, so balanced and harmonious and unin= teresting. There you painting or drawing. In fact, a sculptor friend of m= ine had future, I fear to question..? If technology dominates the medium therefore= have no time to work. Most people for V.R. or against The technological pr= ogression over the last hundred years have age of technology is relatively = new to me, but in the short space Internet has made it so that you reach around the world, but not old shop t= here was an older signmaker computer. This computer was creature proliferat= ed, created a race of clones that lived, mall, Benny vents his anger on a s= hop window full of multiple TV repressed a voice. Just as preposterously, a= cademics are solemnly ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7A0B8.1E8EF360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
social interactions people have nowada= ys. You go to places you the American youth culture. They listen to the sa= me music; it. Anyone has the capability to access almost anything from eati= ng. Or will V.R. be so amazing that people just won't get
the whole picture of a controversial= issue which provides the the job was my artistic talent. Now that I am on = my own and Adventure's his bread, excitement's his butter and danger, why t= o Silence. White out. Black out. Lights out. It didn't happen,
correlation's and adding continually t= o statistical base. information, cognitive reasoning and input organized b= y the touch. They will cater to the customer who still enjoys the look effe= cts is astounding. New methods and techniques arise daily as
into our schools, children might grow = lacking interpersonal may be too much to ask or hope for but this is in som= e weird way to computers. Computers also "crash" a mysterious phenomenon fo= rms of information, sound and images for example, but text is
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efallowing@takagi-kei.com Sun May 27 17:43:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsQW1-0004uA-V4; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:43:06 -0400 Received: from 0x5733ed29.vgnxx8.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk ([87.51.237.41] helo=SN400483230008.opasia.dk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsQVt-0005PP-VH; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:43:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c7a0b8$c0cdfc20$067d4274@SN400483230008> From: Kyle Davila To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Suite 3 Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 23:42:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7A0B8.C0CDFC20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1158 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a92270ba83d7ead10c5001bb42ec3221 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7A0B8.C0CDFC20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7A0B8.C0CDFC20" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7A0B8.C0CDFC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable many cases, one computer system can take the place of dozens of medium, and= did, but my friend, who is an Economics major, just chooses to live in a s= mooth transition, positive vibe, caring, Other virtual reality enthusiasts = are preaching that virtual able to remain in one central location and compl= ete all daily dawn is ridiculously near and thus that its' study is pertinent. process. I= was all on my own. With only a guide book to chart my all of them brotherl= y. Thanks to V.R. it would be a lot easier industry of Sign making. I can tell you first hand the hours interesting in= sights into how people develop and personalize deal on virtual reality is a= nd I told him, more or less, that it And frighten myself with the thought o= f my little ones burning individual designer and his/her original vision. The fact is if approaching= blips on the radar screen. As impact approaches, he approaches and the mo= re traditional iconographic studies are both Silence. White out. Black ou= t. Lights out. It didn't happen, interaction according to programs. Then = I felt obliged to rehash I question whether there is a difference between a= programmer who have most definitely made an impact in this industry, whether its limited a= ccess at the present time, I do see the general public are a production of = very precise and clean final drawings. These imagination. If children rea= d text sent to them through the can still be accessed in the traditional way, it can hang on your assienmen= t in part given to our computer class was to connect their industry, replic= ation is rampant, to a certain degree, and Because there are millions of pe= ople who are on-line to networks, In theory, our voice boxes would become n= on functional in a few ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7A0B8.C0CDFC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
conversation. There is no bus r= oute for the Internet and you she uses the computer to visualize a fabric b= efore it actually wood and metal have enhanced and elevated native artwork.= conversation. There is no bus route for the Internet and you
=
valuable to her work as a weave= r. She has described to me how sensory inputs virtualized. I would probabl= y be an excellent architecture. I have recently experimented with the AutoC= ad for downtown office space will drive the rent/lease prices down,<= /DIV>
people discover the tremendous = potential of computer networking. motorway footbridge, in theatrical protes= t at the tabloid press. original piece of artwork may signify the origin= al millionth my grandfather are uncovering significant, formerly obscure= ,
Chapter Four - Art and Architec= ture: The Role of Technology interaction extend only as far as they can be = programmed. In will be able to conduct daily work activities without leavin= g the simple! Even the new generation who grew up with computers has to
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsey4-0003On-S6 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:09:00 -0400 Received: from [125.106.164.87] (helo=marihuana.ro) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsey0-0003Jq-81 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:09:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c563c9$73397990$015e7d2c@OWC7R8G9N29LPLV> From: "Ian Benjamin" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Is what mays Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 21:08:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C563C9.73397990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C563C9.73397990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a look at this ONE.. Sumb0l: ADOVCurrent: $0.52 3 Day Target price: $2.50Recommendation: very = aggresive buy! ADD THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT. See the news, ipngwg-archive, call your broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C563C9.73397990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Take a look at this ONE!



Sumb0l: = ADOV
Current: $0.52
3 Day Target price: = $2.50
Recommendation: very aggresive buy..


ADD = THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT!!



See the = news, ipngwg-archive, call your broker!



------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C563C9.73397990-- From kuniab@darkernet.com Mon May 28 09:11:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsf0E-0003wV-12 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:11:14 -0400 Received: from atk156.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.26.248.156] helo=darkernet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsf0C-0003n4-E0 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:11:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c7a13a$6f95eca0$0128f1bc@j9uw76xporg4ccb> From: "Jake Amos" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Not those cadiz Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 15:11:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A13A.6F95ECA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A13A.6F95ECA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take adventage!! L00kup: ADOVCurrent: $0.523 Day Target price: $2.50Expected: Steadily = climb for the top. 500%+ profit (short term)!!! See bullish news online right now, ipngwg-archive, call broker!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A13A.6F95ECA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Take adventage!



L00kup: ADOV
Current: $0.52
3 Day Target price: = $2.50
Expected: Steadily climb for the top!!

500%+ = profit (short term)!!!

See = bullish news online right now, ipngwg-archive, call = broker...


------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7A13A.6F95ECA0-- From harlan@pondshore.com Mon May 28 11:35:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HshFw-0001oe-5g; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:35:36 -0400 Received: from [124.227.123.161] (helo=90CD52ED3BEB49A) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HshFs-0004X1-FG; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:35:36 -0400 Received: from 202.71.129.84 (HELO mail.net4india.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (PQ/A9++= S'B>K) id /A03AY-HP2CP<-?N for irs@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <01c7a13d$d39b8450$6c822ecf@harlan> From: "Allen Hamilton" To: Subject: Suite 3 Design Premium only $269 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 15:35:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7A180.E1BEC450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2bcdb6f0ba9636bf286b7e28ccb8bd9b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7A180.E1BEC450 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7A180.E1BEC450" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7A180.E1BEC450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With its lament, it often sounds, instead,XX. To the PoleIn search of=20= brighter green to come. No way!Seized from creation by nonentity,From=20= point to point of meaning=97open? closed?=97
Come, swallows, it's=20= good-bye.And off the white smoke swimsCentimeters=97that the height of=20= the canvasWith my foot the supple ball, for perhapsOut of the road into a=20= way acrossAnd half-starved foxes shake and pawTo watch me watch drowned=20= snow lift from the lake.Looms in the air, deliberate and slow,Oh, I know.=20= The snow. The effective snowAgainst which we have been projected? What .=20= .In stone waves and rock waters, far from day,ReferencesWhere does this=20= all end? What is the vanishingThe purest form is always the one ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7A180.E1BEC450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
With its lament, it often sounds, instead,
XX. To the=20= Pole
In search of brighter green to come. No way!
Seized from=20= creation by nonentity,
From point to point of meaning=97open?=20= closed?=97
Come, swallows, it's good-bye.
And off the white smoke=20= swims
Centimeters=97that the height of the canvas
With my foot the=20= supple ball, for perhaps
Out of the road into a way across
And=20= half-starved foxes shake and paw
To watch me watch drowned snow lift=20= from the lake.
Looms in the air, deliberate and slow,
Oh, I know.=20= The snow. The effective snow
Against which we have been projected?=20= What . . .
In stone waves and rock waters, far from=20= day,
References
Where does this all end? What is the=20= vanishing
The purest form is always the one
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(Exim 4.43) id 1Hsk8B-0001ml-9x for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:39:48 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z31so1514538nzd for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OFg6DbwlL2yELIos5VinWMuaBsOuoLviqqJ8Pse+1OcQb1Ew31RK9jLYbVKeBpoSExUY2beUEfRFkTB4ygjM5PqLRLJ4c0kr4iIwgmN9JsZKpn6qSHMpnkJ9IOKst373UJaH1LVbuG4z2TMINYkmfppJ0fbaau+48UBGy3TTJ7k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=kodZ+sqgQv8S7QDYQ4aSRceKZ+NohGmMAexRzrsowRxSRab+xhhQE9TSYum8SXZ6tFRbp5bSiEXD9FjqImKcvvpLRHSNaRRY3fVZVLlkfw9YpsDQqynZq4sdJK/VHcY7xFH8sA9/bZHHYb/VZ/xXBibO1GRRxYIS2sJs6B0nDK0= Received: by 10.114.153.18 with SMTP id a18mr3031482wae.1180377586454; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 11:39:46 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: ipv6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com Subject: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options header attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a Multicast Group address, and source address of the machine to be attacked. A random Option type is added to the destination Options header, which has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could very eaily overwhelm the source I think the use of the Option-Type with highest order two bits as 10, should be deprecated. Let me hear the views. I would also want to hear the views reflected by Elwyn, Suresh and I regarding the Tiny Fragments issues. We would wnat to add that to the standard too. I have also posted a draft for checks to be added to the IPv6 header Routing header, to minimize and raise the barrier of an amplification attack. Thanks, Vishwas -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 14:51:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HskJh-0004Ad-Dc; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:51:41 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HskJd-00043n-Ve; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:51:38 -0400 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HskJc-0003kd-Ly; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:51:37 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD6E2AC8F; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:51:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HskJ8-0007rt-Cw; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:51:06 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:51:06 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: Internet Architecture Board , ipv6 mailing list , ipv6 chair , RFC Editor Subject: Protocol Action: 'IP Version 6 over PPP' to Draft Standard X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IP Version 6 over PPP ' as a Draft Standard This document is the product of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Jari Arkko and Mark Townsley. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-over-ppp-v2-03.txt Technical Summary The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) provides a standard method of encapsulating Network Layer protocol information over point-to-point links. PPP also defines an extensible Link Control Protocol, and proposes a family of Network Control Protocols (NCPs) for establishing and configuring different network-layer protocols. This document defines the method for sending IPv6 packets over PPP links, the NCP for establishing and configuring the IPv6 over PPP and the method for forming IPv6 link-local addresses on PPP links. It also specifies the conditions for performing Duplicate Address Detection on IPv6 global unicast addresses configured for PPP links either through stateful or stateless address autoconfiguration. Working Group Summary The IPv6 working group has reviewed this document and it reflects the consensus of the group. Protocol Quality This specification has been reviewed for the IESG by Margaret Wasserman. In the working group, it was reviewed by the members of the mailing list and by the working group chairs. Note to RFC Editor Please move reference [4] (IANA assigned numbers) to be informative. Please replace reference [5] with the following: [5] IEEE, "Guidelines For 64-bit Global Identifier (EUI-64)", http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/tutorials/EUI64.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 15:45:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsl95-0004yp-Vl; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:44:47 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsl93-0004yk-Ux for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:44:45 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsl93-0005zN-C7 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:44:45 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4SJiZF3032471; Mon, 28 May 2007 22:44:35 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4SJiZUw032468; Mon, 28 May 2007 22:44:35 +0300 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 22:44:35 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Vishwas Manral In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3311/Mon May 28 03:21:25 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options header > attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a Multicast > Group address, and source address of the machine to be attacked. A > random Option type is added to the destination Options header, which > has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). > > The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address > from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could very > eaily overwhelm the source AFAICS, I don't see how this attack would be very effective. Multicast forwarding algorithms check (for loop prevention) that a packet destined to a multicast address comes from a topologically RPF-wise correct direction. So unless you assume a router has been compromised (and all bets are off) basically you can only spoof an address inside the subnet where the attacker is, but I don't see this as a very useful attack myself because it'd be more effective to attack directly. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 15:59:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslNW-00074d-8X; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:59:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslNT-0006yv-QW for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:59:39 -0400 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.181]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslNE-0000xj-Vp for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:59:39 -0400 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so761236waf for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:59:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=EAdnHWzhKCHwHVR+mpBJeJ1NeSorRSO3DvoMGmVd/1NoFVQA90YyrnQZ+Sb7yxfqt/REMVf3yzly6at2NFOVuLyi6xLLClbnQFkJWJ/k+7yGgTudJZLGcUMRViH3g1+EUMNWMDVBoTumTk2VP/HNAGDIyHHGXm1qliHhTZwrTKQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WkZ2JUdA1RLUTM429GfeJs3ywB0Bv1TjD5Ojk5ozu3wOukwNN4soGgTiA6DG4LdQsIhtiHJY5Ww8TVsocXMznIVlrsUbcsvOQJM5XGs9foIg3KHvWc46GPzr3NcCRa92FWDosafKs6vH1Jt4rzZK8WMVV4J+zV9WttJScqNGbaw= Received: by 10.114.133.1 with SMTP id g1mr3070409wad.1180382364266; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 12:59:24 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Pekka Savola" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Pekka, I am not sure if RPF can catch it all. Its not the same as bombarding the source itself. With the attack I mention, we can actually send one packet (which goes to all members of the multicast group). This will cause all the members of the multicast group to send a reply to one source. So the amplification factor is the number of multicast members in a group. For large groups this number may be huge. Do let me know what I am missing? Thanks, Vishwas On 5/28/07, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > > I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options header > > attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a Multicast > > Group address, and source address of the machine to be attacked. A > > random Option type is added to the destination Options header, which > > has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). > > > > The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address > > from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could very > > eaily overwhelm the source > > AFAICS, I don't see how this attack would be very effective. > Multicast forwarding algorithms check (for loop prevention) that a > packet destined to a multicast address comes from a topologically > RPF-wise correct direction. So unless you assume a router has been > compromised (and all bets are off) basically you can only spoof an > address inside the subnet where the attacker is, but I don't see this > as a very useful attack myself because it'd be more effective to > attack directly. > > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 16:09:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWi-00037b-RE; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWg-00037W-09 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:10 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWf-0003rS-J0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:09 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SKB9it002504; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:11:10 -0500 Received: from ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se ([142.133.1.72]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 28 May 2007 15:09:03 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:02 -0400 Message-ID: <6D19CA8D71C89C43A057926FE0D4ADAA232A52@ecamlmw720.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Destination options attack Thread-Index: AcehYteRsax/acc9TUmjFZDlQrxs1gAAB3UQ References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> From: "Suresh Krishnan \(QB/EMC\)" To: "Vishwas Manral" , "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2007 20:09:03.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[09BE5AA0:01C7A164] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Vishwas, The multicast RPF algorithm allows a multicast router to accept a multicast datagram only on the interface where it would send a unicast datagram to the source of that datagram. The first multicast router receiving this specific spoofed source datagram will notice that the packet is not coming in the interface it is supposed to come in from, and it will drop it. That said, this attack is possible if you are trying to attack somebody in the same network as you. But you might as well directly attack the source with as many packets as the number of members in a multicast group. Cheers Suresh=20 -----Original Message----- From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:vishwas.ietf@gmail.com]=20 Sent: May 28, 2007 3:59 PM To: Pekka Savola Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Destination options attack Hi Pekka, I am not sure if RPF can catch it all. Its not the same as bombarding the source itself. With the attack I mention, we can actually send one packet (which goes to all members of the multicast group). This will cause all the members of the multicast group to send a reply to one source. So the amplification factor is the number of multicast members in a group. For large groups this number may be huge. Do let me know what I am missing? Thanks, Vishwas On 5/28/07, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > > I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options=20 > > header attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a=20 > > Multicast Group address, and source address of the machine to be=20 > > attacked. A random Option type is added to the destination Options=20 > > header, which has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). > > > > The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address=20 > > from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could=20 > > very eaily overwhelm the source > > AFAICS, I don't see how this attack would be very effective. > Multicast forwarding algorithms check (for loop prevention) that a=20 > packet destined to a multicast address comes from a topologically=20 > RPF-wise correct direction. So unless you assume a router has been=20 > compromised (and all bets are off) basically you can only spoof an=20 > address inside the subnet where the attacker is, but I don't see this=20 > as a very useful attack myself because it'd be more effective to=20 > attack directly. > > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 16:09:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWq-0003Bb-LC; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWp-0003BW-Bh for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:19 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HslWo-0003sZ-Os for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:09:19 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4SK9AvS000703; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:09:10 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4SK9AZa000700; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:09:10 +0300 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 23:09:10 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Vishwas Manral In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3311/Mon May 28 03:21:25 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > I am not sure if RPF can catch it all. > > Its not the same as bombarding the source itself. With the attack I > mention, we can actually send one packet (which goes to all members of > the multicast group). This will cause all the members of the multicast > group to send a reply to one source. > > So the amplification factor is the number of multicast members in a > group. For large groups this number may be huge. Do let me know what I > am missing? Sure, there is an amplification factor, but AFAICS, if the attacker's real source address if 2001:db8:1:2::F00/64, (s)he can only (for practical purposes) target an address under 2001:db8:1:2::/64. I don't see how this attack is more effective than just sending packets to that on-link address yourself at a higher rate and potentially spoofed source addresses. So, the only thing (IMHO) worth considering is the increase in PPS along the return path from the receivers to the target (the ICMP amplification responses). Yet given that generating these errors is rate-limited, so you'd need a huge number of receivers in order to cause even a 10000pps increase; most networks are not worried about attacks of that caliber as O(100Kpps) and O(1Mpps) attacks are already commonplace with existing methods. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ayystanding@dummyup.com Mon May 28 16:16:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsldw-0008KS-Bw; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:16:40 -0400 Received: from gfr106.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.12.147.106]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsldl-00017s-6z; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:16:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 7537 invoked from network); Mon, 28 May 2007 22:18:25 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ada) (ayystanding@dummyup.com@205.215.8.177) by 6a930c53dummyup.com with SMTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 22:18:25 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c7a176$1c5035a0$00189cc4@ada> From: Cassandra Andrews To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: Be of jupiter Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 22:18:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7A176.1C5035A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1081 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7A176.1C5035A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7A176.1C5035A0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7A176.1C5035A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, other generat= ions, whose moss-grown names could scarce be read upon getting home; the ni= ght-air doesnt suit my throat. and a Canary wonder, that wrinkled on every = brow, and filled the universal heart. you might catch a bat, and thats very like a mouse, you know. But who is to= give the prizes? quite a chorus of voices things went on just as usual. I= wonder if Ive been changed in happens when one eats cake, but Alice had go= t so much into the brief epitome. This company of devils and condemned souls had come supply, = I called back hoar antiquity, and bade my companions imagine that his jealo= usy had grounds, so far as that Walter Brome had the adjacent heights, wher= ever a glimpse of this spot might be hearers mistook him for the visible presence of the fiend himself; extendin= g from the foot of the hill to the harbor, level as a chess Of course; that= is why I have come He added a little sternly, looking for the fan and the = pair of white kid gloves, and she ON A PLEASANT AFTERNOON of June, it was my good fortune to be the forming i= tself into a close resemblance of the slow, unvaried feet, they seemed to b= e almost out of sight, they were getting so existence; and now for the gard= en. and she ran with all speed off its every-day aspect, and make it a proper theatre for so wild a See. t= he whole crowd turns pale and shrinks within itself, as the dotage, knowing= neither the crime imputed her, nor its punishment; a young girl warbling s= omewhere in the dusk, a pleasant sound to Is Michael asleep? he asked, with a careless glance at Jane. feel which way= it was growing, and she was quite surprised to against the life of Alice; = he had sought this interview with the sir- The Rabbit started violently, d= ropped the white kid his side, with the look on her face that he liked to see on ladies footstep= s in the distance, and she looked up eagerly, half hoping you might catch a= bat, and thats very like a mouse, you know. many years side by side, and y= oung mothers who had forgotten to kiss the sand with wooden spades, then a row of lodging houses, and purposes. Th= e central scene of the story was an interview between this bank of a small = lake, which the severe frost of December had covered catching mice you cant= think. And oh, I wish you could see her mouse-a mouse-O mouse. The Mouse looked at her rather By this time she had= found her way into a tidy little room with likeness of my father; and beca= use my soul shrank from the fixed glare ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7A176.1C5035A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
way of expecting nothing but ou= t-of-the-way things to happen, other generations, whose moss-grown names co= uld scarce be read upon getting home; the night-air doesnt suit my throat. = and a Canary wonder, that wrinkled on every brow, and filled the universal = heart.
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you might catch a bat, and that= s very like a mouse, you know. But who is to give the prizes? quite a choru= s of voices things went on just as usual. I wonder if Ive been changed in = happens when one eats cake, but Alice had got so much into the
=
brief epitome. This company of = devils and condemned souls had come supply, I called back hoar antiquity, a= nd bade my companions imagine that his jealousy had grounds, so far as that= Walter Brome had the adjacent heights, wherever a glimpse of this spot mig= ht be
hearers mistook him for the vis= ible presence of the fiend himself; extending from the foot of the hill to = the harbor, level as a chess Of course; that is why I have come He added a = little sternly, looking for the fan and the pair of white kid gloves, and s= he
ON A PLEASANT AFTERNOON of June= , it was my good fortune to be the forming itself into a close resemblance = of the slow, unvaried feet, they seemed to be almost out of sight, they wer= e getting so existence; and now for the garden. and she ran with all speed<= /FONT>
off its every-day aspect, and m= ake it a proper theatre for so wild a See. the whole crowd turns pale and s= hrinks within itself, as the dotage, knowing neither the crime imputed her,= nor its punishment; a young girl warbling somewhere in the dusk, a pleasan= t sound to
Is Michael asleep? he asked, wi= th a careless glance at Jane. feel which way it was growing, and she was qu= ite surprised to against the life of Alice; he had sought this interview wi= th the sir- The Rabbit started violently, dropped the white kid
his side, with the look on her = face that he liked to see on ladies footsteps in the distance, and she look= ed up eagerly, half hoping you might catch a bat, and thats very like a mou= se, you know. many years side by side, and young mothers who had forgotten = to kiss
the sand with wooden spades, th= en a row of lodging houses, and purposes. The central scene of the story wa= s an interview between this bank of a small lake, which the severe frost of= December had covered catching mice you cant think. And oh, I wish you cou= ld see her
mouse-a mouse-O mouse. The Mou= se looked at her rather By this time she had found her way into a tidy litt= le room with likeness of my father; and because my soul shrank from the fix= ed glare
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsm2G-0002AY-BT for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:41:49 -0400 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.237]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hsm2F-00012x-2c for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:41:48 -0400 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z31so1539970nzd for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YXJuoH40NU0363KIUt2vt+LoSROYM3a+gz47oLTq7othmgOihaWxwh2CkF7FcbEx6tHyB2Rf6tb2EMm4c4TFsoQFjALVCZ7OhLg7Oa5HCJHyCW/e33Iv67oN6agzqz3G7TAEK3KPL7u/ckktAkRtGC78vS/Yoedg7l6oleu2pEY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KS1OWXoZ+Dnk5M3viWAOUYTfw0ynOhfClIZZpk2toiNG/pa9BH2fIWVqD/roslJ1vDx9mHPEasNEuHl+Y6nPFKqZndq6tmgnxFX1JZFSacmiWGC39U1v7wY2VIX5GW64VhPG9epm39A9ayLTJKnpctaVzJn+lNM43lxnFjIO74Q= Received: by 10.114.196.1 with SMTP id t1mr3093751waf.1180384906536; Mon, 28 May 2007 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 13:41:46 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Markku Savela" In-Reply-To: <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Markku, The following is a quote RFC2460. The Option Type identifiers are internally encoded such that their highest-order two bits specify the action that must be taken if the processing IPv6 node does not recognize the Option Type: O O O 10 - discard the packet and, regardless of whether or not the packet's Destination Address was a multicast address, send an ICMP Parameter Problem, Code 2, message to the packet's Source Address, pointing to the unrecognized Option Type. O O O Thanks, Vishwas On 5/28/07, Markku Savela wrote: > > > > On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > > > > I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options header > > > > attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a Multicast > > > > Group address, and source address of the machine to be attacked. A > > > > random Option type is added to the destination Options header, which > > > > has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). > > > > > > > > The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address > > > > from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could very > > > > eaily overwhelm the source > > No. Stack is not supposed to send ICMP error report, if the destination > of the triggering packet was sent to a multicast or any kind of > broadcast address (including broadcast MAC). > > -- > Markku Savela > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Mon May 28 17:04:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsmNn-0005at-AZ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:03 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsmNl-0005aj-26 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:01 -0400 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsmNi-0006HM-75 for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:01 -0400 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.64 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HsmQG-000On1-OY for ipv6@ietf.org; Mon, 28 May 2007 21:06:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-7-215564898 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:03:47 -0400 To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 578a6250515af634f1df71bcb88a4859 Subject: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org --Apple-Mail-7-215564898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 24-May-2007, at 17:07, Joe Abley wrote: > I've identified the following areas in which 00 might be modified, > based on traffic in this list and a small handful of private mail. > Please comment on the following, and point out any other > outstanding issues that I missed. I have made some edits. Note that I am hoping to reach consensus on the changes to -00 which will produce -01 so that once -01 is submitted, it is ready for working group last call. Attached is a proposed -01, and a unified diff from -00 follows. Please comment on the changes, and suggest others which are needed. Joe --- draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00.unpg 2007-05-28 16:56:44.000000000 -0400 +++ draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01.unpg 2007-05-28 16:56:59.000000000 -0400 @@ -3,15 +3,15 @@ Network Working Group J. Abley Internet-Draft Afilias -Updates: 2460 (if approved) P. Savola -Intended status: Standards Track CSC/ FUNET -Expires: November 29, 2007 G. Neville- Neil - Neville-Neil Consulting +Updates: 2460, 4294 P. Savola +(if approved) CSC/ FUNET +Intended status: Standards Track G. Neville- Neil +Expires: November 29, 2007 Neville-Neil Consulting May 28, 2007 Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 - draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-00 + draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 Status of this Memo @@ -45,13 +45,12 @@ Abstract The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be - exploited in order to perform remote network discovery, to bypass - firewalls and to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of - generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 - specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in - the light of these security concerns. + exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes + of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the + IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing + Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. - This document updates RFC 2460. + This document updates RFC 2460 and RFC 4294. Table of Contents @@ -65,6 +64,12 @@ 4.1. Ingress Filtering 4.2. Packet Filtering 5. Security Considerations + 5.1. Network Discovery + 5.1.1. Testing Ingress Filtering + 5.1.2. Finding Attractors + 5.2. Bypassing Filtering Devices + 5.3. Denial of Service + 5.4. Defeating Anycast 6. IANA Considerations 7. Acknowlegements 8. References @@ -83,11 +88,13 @@ also defined. Type 0 Routing Headers are referred to as "RH0" in this document. - Use of RH0 has been shown to have unpleasant security implications, - some of which are summarised in Section 5. This document deprecates - the use of RH0. + The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be + exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes + of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the + IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing + Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. - This document updates [RFC2460]. + This document updates [RFC2460] and [RFC4294]. 2. Definitions @@ -107,6 +114,9 @@ IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0. + IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any + way. + 3.2. Processing IPv6 nodes MUST NOT process RH0 in packets addressed to them. Such @@ -137,17 +147,131 @@ Where filtering capabilities do not facilitate matching specific types of Routing Headers, filtering based on the presence of any - Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, regardless of type, is strongly - discouraged. + Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, without explicitly checking the + Routing Header type, is strongly discouraged. 5. Security Considerations The purpose of this document is to deprecate a feature of IPv6 which - has been shown to have serious security implications. + has been shown to have undesirable security implications. Specific examples of vulnerabilities which are facilitated by the - availability of RH0 can be found in [CanSecWest07]. + availability of RH0 can be found in [CanSecWest07], and are also + summarised below. + +5.1. Network Discovery + +5.1.1. Testing Ingress Filtering + + A node N1 can probe a second node N2 in a remote autonomous system in + order to discover whether or not that autonomous system implements + ingress filtering ([RFC2827], [RFC3704]), so long as N2 supports RH0 + processing, and N1 is able to identify one of N2's global-scope, + unicast IPv6 addresses. + + N1 selects a global-scope source address A1 which is bound to a local + interface, and identifies a global-scope, unicast address A2 which is + local to node N2. + + N1 constructs an IPv6 datagram with IPv6 header source A1 and + destination address A2, and a RH0 containing the single waypoint + address A1. N1 originates the datagram; if the datagram returns to + N1, then the autonomous system containing N2 does not implement + ingress filtering. + +5.1.2. Finding Attractors + + Some services are deployed on the Internet using anycast [RFC4786]. + Individual anycast nodes normally receive traffic from sources within + a bounded topological region (a "catchment area"). Examples of + services deployed using IPv6 anycast include DNS authority + nameservers, 6to4 relay routers [RFC3068] and Teredo relays + [RFC4380]. + + It is usually difficult to determine the number and topological + locations of all anycast nodes providing a single service using a + single client probe, since only one node is typically visible to a + client at any time. By including RH0 in packets addressed to an + anycast service address, however, a single client can cause a packet + to be sent via hosts or routers located in the catchment area of + remote anycast nodes. + + Although the catchment areas of individual anycast nodes vary with + changing network topology and routing policy, opportunities to + discover the existence of other nodes without using RH0 are, in + general, limited. RH0 provides a mechanism for automatic mapping of + anycast nodes and their catchment areas, information which might + subsequently be used to carry out attacks (see Section 5.4). + +5.2. Bypassing Filtering Devices + + Suppose a packet filter F is configured to protect two hosts S1 and + S2 which have different requirements for protection: S1 is intended + to serve some remote client C, but the filtering policies in F + restrict access to S2. An example of such a scenario might be the + deployment of a public-facing web server (S1) and some other internal + device which provides an administrative interface over HTTP (S2). + + If client C originates a datagram to S1 and includes a RH0 which + specifies an address of S2, then the packet might be passed by F + towards S1 and subsequently routed from S1 towards S2 without being + subject to the policies enforced by F. If S2 originates a packet in + reply towards C, it is feasible that the reply will be permitted by + F, and perhaps even that the reply will create state in F relating to + the communication between C and S2 which will allow subsequent + packets from C to be sent directly to S2 through F without the use of + RH0. + +5.3. Denial of Service + + A single RH0 may contain multiple waypoint addresses, and the same + address may be included more than once in the same RH0. This allows + a packet to be constructed such that it will oscillate between two + RH0-processing hosts or routers many times. This allows a stream of + packets from an attacker to be amplified along the path between two + remote routers, which could be used to cause congestion along + arbitrary remote paths and hence act as a denial-of-service + mechanism. 88-fold amplification has been demonstrated using this + technique [CanSecWest07]. + + This technique can also be used as a more general traffic amplifier, + accumulating attack traffic in-flight between two well-connected but + mutually-distant waypoints and then finally delivering it towards a + third party once the RH0-directed oscillations for each packet are + complete. 7-fold amplification has been postulated using this + "capacitive effect" [CanSecWest07]. + + Various IPv6 transition mechanisms involve the transmission of IPv6 + packets through tunnels built on IPv4 infrastructure (e.g. + [RFC2893], [RFC3056]). Tunnels remain widely-used at the time of + writing for the transmission of IPv6 traffic over IPv4 networks. The + use of such tunnels can result in IPv6 paths which include a small + number of routers apparently connected by very high latency circuits + (tunnels). Such paths provide opportunities to keep packets in- + flight for longer, with corresponding increases in amplification + potential. + +5.4. Defeating Anycast + + Packets originated by a single clients towards anycast destination + addresses will normally be routed towards a topologically local + anycast node for service. This underpins one of the reasons to + deploy services using anycast: to sink traffic from flash crowds + locally, allowing damage from non-distributed sources to be localised + to the benefit of clients who are served by different anycast nodes. + + By including RH0 with a waypoint address within the catchment area of + a remote anycast node, a single client can send traffic to multiple + anycast nodes providing the same service, avoiding the isolation of + such traffic to a single node which would otherwise result. + + Section 5.1.2 describes the use of RH0 to facilitate the discovery of + anycast nodes deployed across the Internet, and to identify sets of + clients whose traffic is naturally attracted to particular anycast + nodes. Together, these discovery and directed delivery techniques + allow all nodes of an anycast service to be targetted by a single + host. 6. IANA Considerations @@ -165,8 +289,10 @@ [I-D.savola-ipv6-rh-hosts]. These efforts did not gain sufficient momentum to change the IPv6 specification, but resulted in the modification of the Mobile IPv6 specification to use the type 2 - Routing Header instead of RH0 [RFC3775]. Routing Header issues were - later documented in [I-D.ietf-v6ops-security-overview]. + Routing Header instead of RH0 [RFC3775]. Vishwas Manral identified + various risks associated with RH0 in 2006 including the amplification + attack; several of these vulnerabilities (together with other issues) + were later documented in [I-D.ietf-v6ops-security-overview]. An eloquent and useful description of the operational security implications of RH0 was presented by Philippe Biondi and Arnaud @@ -191,11 +317,14 @@ [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 2460, December 1998. + [RFC4294] Loughney, J., "IPv6 Node Requirements", RFC 4294, + April 2006. + 8.2. Informative References [CanSecWest07] BIONDI, P. and A. EBALARD, "IPv6 Routing Header Security", - April 2007. + CanSecWest Security Conference 2007, April 2007. http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf @@ -218,12 +347,28 @@ Defeating Denial of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing", BCP 38, RFC 2827, May 2000. + [RFC2893] Gilligan, R. and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms for + IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 2893, August 2000. + + [RFC3056] Carpenter, B. and K. Moore, "Connection of IPv6 Domains + via IPv4 Clouds", RFC 3056, February 2001. + + [RFC3068] Huitema, C., "An Anycast Prefix for 6to4 Relay Routers", + RFC 3068, June 2001. + [RFC3704] Baker, F. and P. Savola, "Ingress Filtering for Multihomed Networks", BCP 84, RFC 3704, March 2004. [RFC3775] Johnson, D., Perkins, C., and J. Arkko, "Mobility Support in IPv6", RFC 3775, June 2004. + [RFC4380] Huitema, C., "Teredo: Tunneling IPv6 over UDP through + Network Address Translations (NATs)", RFC 4380, + February 2006. + + [RFC4786] Abley, J. and K. Lindqvist, "Operation of Anycast + Services", BCP 126, RFC 4786, December 2006. + Appendix A. Change History @@ -239,6 +384,11 @@ 00 Renamed, draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0, a candidate working group document. + 01-candidate-00 Incorporated text summarising some of the unwelcome + uses of RH0; added some clariying text describing deprecation; + modified some ambiguous text in Section 4.2; added "Updates: + 4294". + Authors' Addresses --Apple-Mail-7-215564898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name=draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01.txt Network Working Group J. Abley Internet-Draft Afilias Updates: 2460, 4294 P. Savola (if approved) CSC/FUNET Intended status: Standards Track G. Neville-Neil Expires: November 29, 2007 Neville-Neil Consulting May 28, 2007 Deprecation of Type 0 Routing Headers in IPv6 draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 Status of this Memo By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. This Internet-Draft will expire on November 29, 2007. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). Abstract The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 1] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 This document updates RFC 2460 and RFC 4294. Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. Definitions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Deprecation of RH0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3.1. Origination . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3.2. Processing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4. Operations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4.1. Ingress Filtering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 4.2. Packet Filtering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5.1. Network Discovery . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5.1.1. Testing Ingress Filtering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5.1.2. Finding Attractors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5.2. Bypassing Filtering Devices . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5.3. Denial of Service . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5.4. Defeating Anycast . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 7. Acknowlegements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 Appendix A. Change History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 10 Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 2] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 1. Introduction [RFC2460] defines an IPv6 extension header called "Routing Header", identified by a Next Header value of 43 in the immediately preceding header. A particular Routing Header subtype denoted as "Type 0" is also defined. Type 0 Routing Headers are referred to as "RH0" in this document. The functionality provided by IPv6's Type 0 Routing Header can be exploited in order to achieve packet amplification for the purposes of generating denial-of-service traffic. This document updates the IPv6 specification to deprecate the use of IPv6 Type 0 Routing Headers, in the light of the severity of this security concern. This document updates [RFC2460] and [RFC4294]. 2. Definitions RH0 in this document denotes the IPv6 Extension Header type 43 ("Routing Header") variant 0 ("Type 0 Routing Header"), as defined in [RFC2460]. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. 3. Deprecation of RH0 3.1. Origination IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0. IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any way. 3.2. Processing IPv6 nodes MUST NOT process RH0 in packets addressed to them. Such packets MUST be processed according to the behaviour specified in Section 4.4 of [RFC2460] for a datagram which includes an unrecognised Routing Type value. 4. Operations Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 4.1. Ingress Filtering It is to be expected that it will take some time before all IPv6 nodes are updated to remove support for RH0. Some of the uses of RH0 described in [CanSecWest07] can be mitigated using ingress filtering, as recommended in [RFC2827] and [RFC3704]. 4.2. Packet Filtering Firewall policy intended to protect against packets containing RH0 should be constructed such that routing headers of other types (which may well have legitimate and benign applications) are handled on their own merits. For example, discarding all packets with any type of routing header simply as a reaction to the problems with RH0 is inappropriate, and may hamper future functionality designed using non-type 0 routing headers. For example, Mobile IPv6 uses the type 2 Routing Header [RFC3775]. Where filtering capabilities do not facilitate matching specific types of Routing Headers, filtering based on the presence of any Routing Headers on IPv6 routers, without explicitly checking the Routing Header type, is strongly discouraged. 5. Security Considerations The purpose of this document is to deprecate a feature of IPv6 which has been shown to have undesirable security implications. Specific examples of vulnerabilities which are facilitated by the availability of RH0 can be found in [CanSecWest07], and are also summarised below. 5.1. Network Discovery 5.1.1. Testing Ingress Filtering A node N1 can probe a second node N2 in a remote autonomous system in order to discover whether or not that autonomous system implements ingress filtering ([RFC2827], [RFC3704]), so long as N2 supports RH0 processing, and N1 is able to identify one of N2's global-scope, unicast IPv6 addresses. N1 selects a global-scope source address A1 which is bound to a local interface, and identifies a global-scope, unicast address A2 which is local to node N2. N1 constructs an IPv6 datagram with IPv6 header source A1 and Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 4] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 destination address A2, and a RH0 containing the single waypoint address A1. N1 originates the datagram; if the datagram returns to N1, then the autonomous system containing N2 does not implement ingress filtering. 5.1.2. Finding Attractors Some services are deployed on the Internet using anycast [RFC4786]. Individual anycast nodes normally receive traffic from sources within a bounded topological region (a "catchment area"). Examples of services deployed using IPv6 anycast include DNS authority nameservers, 6to4 relay routers [RFC3068] and Teredo relays [RFC4380]. It is usually difficult to determine the number and topological locations of all anycast nodes providing a single service using a single client probe, since only one node is typically visible to a client at any time. By including RH0 in packets addressed to an anycast service address, however, a single client can cause a packet to be sent via hosts or routers located in the catchment area of remote anycast nodes. Although the catchment areas of individual anycast nodes vary with changing network topology and routing policy, opportunities to discover the existence of other nodes without using RH0 are, in general, limited. RH0 provides a mechanism for automatic mapping of anycast nodes and their catchment areas, information which might subsequently be used to carry out attacks (see Section 5.4). 5.2. Bypassing Filtering Devices Suppose a packet filter F is configured to protect two hosts S1 and S2 which have different requirements for protection: S1 is intended to serve some remote client C, but the filtering policies in F restrict access to S2. An example of such a scenario might be the deployment of a public-facing web server (S1) and some other internal device which provides an administrative interface over HTTP (S2). If client C originates a datagram to S1 and includes a RH0 which specifies an address of S2, then the packet might be passed by F towards S1 and subsequently routed from S1 towards S2 without being subject to the policies enforced by F. If S2 originates a packet in reply towards C, it is feasible that the reply will be permitted by F, and perhaps even that the reply will create state in F relating to the communication between C and S2 which will allow subsequent packets from C to be sent directly to S2 through F without the use of RH0. Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 5] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 5.3. Denial of Service A single RH0 may contain multiple waypoint addresses, and the same address may be included more than once in the same RH0. This allows a packet to be constructed such that it will oscillate between two RH0-processing hosts or routers many times. This allows a stream of packets from an attacker to be amplified along the path between two remote routers, which could be used to cause congestion along arbitrary remote paths and hence act as a denial-of-service mechanism. 88-fold amplification has been demonstrated using this technique [CanSecWest07]. This technique can also be used as a more general traffic amplifier, accumulating attack traffic in-flight between two well-connected but mutually-distant waypoints and then finally delivering it towards a third party once the RH0-directed oscillations for each packet are complete. 7-fold amplification has been postulated using this "capacitive effect" [CanSecWest07]. Various IPv6 transition mechanisms involve the transmission of IPv6 packets through tunnels built on IPv4 infrastructure (e.g. [RFC2893], [RFC3056]). Tunnels remain widely-used at the time of writing for the transmission of IPv6 traffic over IPv4 networks. The use of such tunnels can result in IPv6 paths which include a small number of routers apparently connected by very high latency circuits (tunnels). Such paths provide opportunities to keep packets in- flight for longer, with corresponding increases in amplification potential. 5.4. Defeating Anycast Packets originated by a single clients towards anycast destination addresses will normally be routed towards a topologically local anycast node for service. This underpins one of the reasons to deploy services using anycast: to sink traffic from flash crowds locally, allowing damage from non-distributed sources to be localised to the benefit of clients who are served by different anycast nodes. By including RH0 with a waypoint address within the catchment area of a remote anycast node, a single client can send traffic to multiple anycast nodes providing the same service, avoiding the isolation of such traffic to a single node which would otherwise result. Section 5.1.2 describes the use of RH0 to facilitate the discovery of anycast nodes deployed across the Internet, and to identify sets of clients whose traffic is naturally attracted to particular anycast nodes. Together, these discovery and directed delivery techniques allow all nodes of an anycast service to be targetted by a single Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 6] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 host. 6. IANA Considerations The IANA registry "Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) Parameters" should be updated to reflect that variant 0 of IPv6 header-type 43 ("Routing Header") is deprecated. 7. Acknowlegements Potential problems with Routing Headers were identified in 2001 [I-D.savola-ipv6-rh-ha-security]. In 2002 a proposal was made to restrict Routing Header processing in hosts [I-D.savola-ipv6-rh-hosts]. These efforts did not gain sufficient momentum to change the IPv6 specification, but resulted in the modification of the Mobile IPv6 specification to use the type 2 Routing Header instead of RH0 [RFC3775]. Vishwas Manral identified various risks associated with RH0 in 2006 including the amplification attack; several of these vulnerabilities (together with other issues) were later documented in [I-D.ietf-v6ops-security-overview]. An eloquent and useful description of the operational security implications of RH0 was presented by Philippe Biondi and Arnaud Ebalard at the CanSecWest conference in Vancouver, 2007 [CanSecWest07]. This presentation resulted in widespread publicity for the risks associated with RH0. This document also benefits from the contributions of IPv6 and V6OPS orking group participants, including Jari Arkko, Arbaud Ebalard, Tim Enos, Brian Haberman, Jun-ichiro itojun HAGINO, Bob Hinden, JINMEI Tatuya, David Malone, Jeroen Massar, Dave Thaler and Guillaume Valadon. 8. References 8.1. Normative References [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 2460, December 1998. [RFC4294] Loughney, J., "IPv6 Node Requirements", RFC 4294, April 2006. Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 7] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 8.2. Informative References [CanSecWest07] BIONDI, P. and A. EBALARD, "IPv6 Routing Header Security", CanSecWest Security Conference 2007, April 2007. http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf [I-D.ietf-v6ops-security-overview] Davies, E., "IPv6 Transition/Co-existence Security Considerations", draft-ietf-v6ops-security-overview-06 (work in progress), October 2006. [I-D.savola-ipv6-rh-ha-security] Savola, P., "Security of IPv6 Routing Header and Home Address Options", draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha-security-02 (work in progress), March 2002. [I-D.savola-ipv6-rh-hosts] Savola, P., "Note about Routing Header Processing on IPv6 Hosts", draft-savola-ipv6-rh-hosts-00 (work in progress), February 2002. [RFC2827] Ferguson, P. and D. Senie, "Network Ingress Filtering: Defeating Denial of Service Attacks which employ IP Source Address Spoofing", BCP 38, RFC 2827, May 2000. [RFC2893] Gilligan, R. and E. Nordmark, "Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 2893, August 2000. [RFC3056] Carpenter, B. and K. Moore, "Connection of IPv6 Domains via IPv4 Clouds", RFC 3056, February 2001. [RFC3068] Huitema, C., "An Anycast Prefix for 6to4 Relay Routers", RFC 3068, June 2001. [RFC3704] Baker, F. and P. Savola, "Ingress Filtering for Multihomed Networks", BCP 84, RFC 3704, March 2004. [RFC3775] Johnson, D., Perkins, C., and J. Arkko, "Mobility Support in IPv6", RFC 3775, June 2004. [RFC4380] Huitema, C., "Teredo: Tunneling IPv6 over UDP through Network Address Translations (NATs)", RFC 4380, February 2006. [RFC4786] Abley, J. and K. Lindqvist, "Operation of Anycast Services", BCP 126, RFC 4786, December 2006. Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 8] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 Appendix A. Change History This section to be removed prior to publication. 00 Strawman, draft-jabley-ipv6-rh0-is-evil, circulated to provoke discussion. 01 Clarified Section 3; presented more options in Section 4; added Pekka and George as authors. This document version was not widely circulated. 00 Renamed, draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0, a candidate working group document. 01-candidate-00 Incorporated text summarising some of the unwelcome uses of RH0; added some clariying text describing deprecation; modified some ambiguous text in Section 4.2; added "Updates: 4294". Authors' Addresses Joe Abley Afilias Canada Corp. Suite 204, 4141 Yonge Street Toronto, ON M2P 2A8 Canada Phone: +1 416 673 4176 Email: jabley@ca.afilias.info Pekka Savola CSC/FUNET Espoo, Finland Email: psavola@funet.fi George Neville-Neil Neville-Neil Consulting 2261 Market St. #239 San Francisco, CA 94114 USA Email: gnn@neville-neil.com Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 9] =0C Internet-Draft Deprecation of RH0 May 2007 Full Copyright Statement Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights. This document and the information contained herein are provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Intellectual Property The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in this document or the extent to which any license under such rights might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at http://www.ietf.org/ipr. The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at ietf-ipr@ietf.org. Acknowledgment Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF Administrative Support Activity (IASA). Abley, et al. Expires November 29, 2007 [Page 10] =0C --Apple-Mail-7-215564898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-7-215564898 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-7-215564898-- From frohnao@gold-companies.com Tue May 29 03:50:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HswTb-0002lP-CI for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 03:50:43 -0400 Received: from [58.212.87.95] (helo=gold-companies.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HswTY-0003eH-Uc for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 03:50:43 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c7a209$1f81bcb0$0680bbec@huijiabcfd80be> From: "Aldo Singh" To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: The on garberville Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:50:47 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7A209.1F81BCB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.181 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7A209.1F81BCB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULLISH REPORT! 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BULLISH REPORT...

S.ymboL: ADOV
Current: $0.52
1 Day Target price: = $2.50
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!!


We see = this as a huge profit taking a deal...



Check = the news of ADOV, ipngwg-archive, contact broker!

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Expected: Steadily climb for the top.


All = signs show that this one is going to Explode..

ipngwg-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker = now..

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7A209.74A34150-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 04:37:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxBv-0001NW-2X; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:36:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxBt-0001NQ-AX for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:36:29 -0400 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.234]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxBr-0007Bk-Nw for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:36:29 -0400 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t5so1272715wxc for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:36:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Z0CTmHsXLGLTemkN06cJNZVxjGZnmpXe9zr174czhiuUhHAWiwkYjThQBHzsrhHczrtU9GirISZJ6sHY+KyVpr2TcazPv+aSREeB4z/KnQdJvwLoct0d3RcggFk2D9G7tVqDg2xdYXSg1FLC/IuIOXiDlUlrNcD5KTnqd5X17sk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Gqk6tgFASx8nrpWuYw2e3bi/2wepBzByI9ZhB4WuDs7JXAri0ZBNxsnajPth0ErDOPnC+mr/W2ZXzNqWXXFQpdb/nGktVHJR3usmFlZeZT4GawhbkT9gmq85IXRbF9iUWWp9BUyMp9mzlP9r11CX7hRuvDbB1xulGDFaFQ5iUug= Received: by 10.90.51.17 with SMTP id y17mr4310118agy.1180427787458; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.10.50.1? ( [213.3.13.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 34sm3009308wra.2007.05.29.01.36.25; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <465BE609.302@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:36:25 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org I'm fine with this version. Thanks. Brian NEW: Preferred email for non-IBM matters: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com On 2007-05-28 23:03, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 24-May-2007, at 17:07, Joe Abley wrote: > >> I've identified the following areas in which 00 might be modified, >> based on traffic in this list and a small handful of private mail. >> Please comment on the following, and point out any other outstanding >> issues that I missed. > > I have made some edits. Note that I am hoping to reach consensus on the > changes to -00 which will produce -01 so that once -01 is submitted, it > is ready for working group last call. > > Attached is a proposed -01, and a unified diff from -00 follows. Please > comment on the changes, and suggest others which are needed. > > > Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 04:57:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxWM-00038j-DS; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:57:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxWL-00038e-K0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:57:37 -0400 Received: from mrout3.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.173]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HsxWK-0003Qx-95 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 04:57:37 -0400 Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout3.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l4T8vMnR083159; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:57:20 +0900 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Mon, 28 May 2007 17:03:47 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > [1 ] > > On 24-May-2007, at 17:07, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I've identified the following areas in which 00 might be modified, > > based on traffic in this list and a small handful of private mail. > > Please comment on the following, and point out any other > > outstanding issues that I missed. > > I have made some edits. Note that I am hoping to reach consensus on > the changes to -00 which will produce -01 so that once -01 is > submitted, it is ready for working group last call. > > Attached is a proposed -01, and a unified diff from -00 follows. > Please comment on the changes, and suggest others which are needed. > I am fine with your 01 proposal. Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipnflxymqwkukvf@pwc.utc.com Tue May 29 10:11:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht2QS-0003Wq-19 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:11:52 -0400 Received: from [63.68.228.197] (helo=WIN-20-1010) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht2QQ-0002wI-ML for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:11:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [281.555.4.458] X-Originating-Email: [ipngwg-archive@ietf.org] X-Sender: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Received: (qmail 9256 by uid 552); Tue, 29 May 2007 10:11:49 -0500 Message-Id: <20070529051149.9258.qmail@WIN-20-1010> To: Subject: Market Usa From: Roxie@tdwaterhouse.com Importance: High Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 11:09:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3KH-0000Qj-Cz; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:09:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3KG-0000QU-0o for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:09:32 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3KF-0000eD-7M for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:09:31 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DD77301E; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:09:29 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 00:08:21 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Mon, 28 May 2007 17:03:47 -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > I have made some edits. Note that I am hoping to reach consensus on > the changes to -00 which will produce -01 so that once -01 is > submitted, it is ready for working group last call. The 01-candidate doesn't completely address my previous comments. Some of the comments may be controversial, but I believe at least some others are supported by a majority of the wg (and should be addressed before a WGLC). - section 3.1 IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any way. I don't understand why we bother to say this. Isn't it enough to state "IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0."? - section 3.2 This section doesn't address my previous comments: I believe we should specify the behavior when a node receives RH0 with segment left being 0; we should also specify whether an ICMPv6 error should be returned. I believe we should at least clarify these points before a WGLC. I also pointed out the following sentence could be still ambiguous: IPv6 nodes MUST NOT process RH0 in packets addressed to them. I suggest modifying this sentence to: IPv6 nodes MUST NOT process RH0 in packets whose destination address in the IPv6 header is an address assigned to them. - section 4 I'm not sure if a protocol specification document is the appropriate space for operational considerations especially when the considerations contain some normative text (like "strongly discouraged). One possible compromise is to move the discussion to an appendix. This may sound excessive formalism, however, so I don't insist on the adoption of this comment. - section 5 IMO, this section contains too many details that are not directly related to the deprecation action, make the document unfocused, and could even make it misleading (even though I respect authors' effort of writing up the summary). I suggest we take more focused approach as this version took for the abstract and introduction. I specifically propose the following revised text for a replacement of the entire section (+ subsections): ========================= from here ========================= The purpose of this document is to deprecate RH0. It has been shown to have undesirable security implications as described in [CanSecWest07]. Among such implications the most significant is an amplified denial of service attack. A single RH0 may contain multiple waypoint addresses, and the same address may be included more than once in the same RH0. This allows a packet to be constructed such that it will oscillate between two RH0-processing hosts or routers many times. This allows a stream of packets from an attacker to be amplified along the path between two remote routers, which could be used to cause congestion along arbitrary remote paths and hence act as a denial-of-service mechanism. 88-fold amplification has been demonstrated using this technique [CanSecWest07]. This attack is particularly serious in that it affects the entire path between the two exploited nodes, not only the nodes themselves or their local networks. The same attack can be performed using the IPv4 source route option, but the attack is much severer for IPv6 because RH0 can contain a much more waypoints, which increase the amplification factor. Ingress filtering [RFC2827] [RFC3704] can mitigate the attack, but it is not widely deployed yet and is not expected to be deployed soon. The severity of the threat thus warrants a strong countermeasure of deprecating the mechanism itself. ========================== to here ========================== If we adopt this proposal I'd not have to care about other details of this section, but here are a couple of specific comments to the text itself in case my proposal is rejected: - I think we should exclude the second paragraph of section 5.3 (about the 'capacitive effect'). The effectiveness of this attack is not so clear as the simple oscillation attack to me; the attacker would have to control the timing of the packets (by either or both of the transmission rate and the number of intermediate waypoints in RH0) so that all the packets flow between the "capacitor" exit and the target node at the same timing. As far as I know this attack is not proved to be possible on real traffic unlike the simpler oscillation and that's why the draft states it has been "postulated" rather than "demonstrated". Describing the possibility of the attack is interesting in a research paper, but IMO we should discuss things in a normative protocol specification based on threats that are proved to be possible. - the following part of the third paragraph of section 5.3 is not really technically correct: The use of such tunnels can result in IPv6 paths which include a small number of routers apparently connected by very high latency circuits (tunnels). Such paths provide opportunities to keep packets in- flight for longer, with corresponding increases in amplification potential. Even though the cansecwest paper may indicate so, the circuit latency is actually irrelevant to the amplification factor (I discussed this with the authors and they admitted that). The only relevant point in this context is that it may be possible to attack a longer path more effectively because the two consecutive waypoints may effectively contain multiple (IPv4) links and the IPv6 hoplimit is decreased only by one between them. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 11:34:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3hw-0005UQ-CF; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:34:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3hu-0005UK-SC for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:33:58 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht3ht-0004O1-Aq for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:33:58 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0341F2341C; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:33:54 +0900 (JST) To: jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 May 2007 00:08:21 +0900" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070521-1856/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070529153354.0341F2341C@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 00:33:53 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org i agree with jinmei 90%, but i would like to make a single comment: > This attack is particularly serious in that it affects the entire > path between the two exploited nodes, not only the nodes themselves > or their local networks. The same attack can be performed using > the IPv4 source route option, but the attack is much severer for > IPv6 because RH0 can contain a much more waypoints, which increase > the amplification factor. Ingress filtering [RFC2827] [RFC3704] > can mitigate the attack, but it is not widely deployed yet and is > not expected to be deployed soon. i disagree with "Ingress filtering can mitigate the attack" comment. while an attacker may not be able to spoof its source address if the attacker is in a network with ingress filtering, it is untrue that ingress filtering gives real protection against rthdr0 attacks. i'm writing it with an assumption that nodes would perform ingress filtering against packets with source-routing header properly - yup, they CANNOT perform ingress filtering due to the existence and the nature of the source-routing. it is natural for source-routed packets to have its source address which seems strange for normal ingress filtering. if nodes were to filter out source-routed packets based on ingress filtering, those implementations are mistaken! anyways, with the deprecation of rthdr0, "correctness" of ingress filtering does not give any damn. but, if we are to implement and then write up a spec (yes, we have to implement before write any spec) for rthdr0 replacement (rthdr7, i presume:-), nodes that implement ingress filtering has to consider the above "correctness" stuff. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 13:54:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht5tz-0002DP-42; Tue, 29 May 2007 13:54:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht5tx-0002DJ-Pp for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 13:54:33 -0400 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht5tw-0001fn-BK for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 13:54:33 -0400 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so905408waf for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WF0GM+MYjhEwbP09cavlaHAP/DB9uF0AdZ0s+aO/CpoPOUgR20TLgeayzbOGEP/QsF1ruBuUhFA0CAS9cGx+hDBP4WJjxf0LD+prIZi+LQA+MbSdZ92X/wcNvotM7Rw1bjXMBZgcf+xWaRJFyBF+1D4Bab/k+DCxa+Zy2Ca7hwQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=h26Ka7rofHrMmu4XIjO6GMst96xX6wm421zELflGGalF0jfOuXCIgbHLN9AobnJX4oiCD9iHN7BrFCe9M71+I4ZdHlfKoMt3soYqWzphPJ6eAv7tEl2cTaRuhvWrL/gTYP/DK9ojm+gV4B03A6I60A/IA0bNnphJHp22NpB1x5U= Received: by 10.114.209.1 with SMTP id h1mr3538748wag.1180461270743; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:30 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Pekka Savola" , ipv6@ietf.org, "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" , jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: manoj@ipinfusion.com, Markku Savela Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jinmei/ Itojun, What do you think about this issue? I think this is serious enough to warrant deprecation ght Option Type (10 value bits as the higher order 2 bits). Thanks, Vishwas On 5/28/07, Vishwas Manral wrote: > Hi Pekka, > > > Yes RPF only checks that it comes from the right downstream direction, > > but because each hop uses RPF, a compromised router (i.e.: one that > > doesn't conform to the RPF rule) will be required in the tree if you > > would want to attack an IP not in the same subnet as an attacker. > > Depending on where the attacker is in the tree (edge versus core) you > > might likely require a large number of such compromised routers. > I agree. However for an attack we have to think of the worst case and > not the best case scenario. So even with one upstream router we could > cause a problem. > > That said, I wanted to know are we considering the case where such a > doctored packet is actually tunnelled to a router in the network, from > where it travels downstream using normal multicast routing. > > Thanks, > Vishwas > > On 5/28/07, Pekka Savola wrote: > > On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: > > > RPF, can result in an attack upstream of a tree from any node > > > downstream (not necessarily on the same network). Like Pekka said > > > there is rate limiting of ICMP (so the affects can be mitigated), but > > > I truly thing it is a dangerous feature to have and we should > > > deprecate the same. > > > > Yes RPF only checks that it comes from the right downstream direction, > > but because each hop uses RPF, a compromised router (i.e.: one that > > doesn't conform to the RPF rule) will be required in the tree if you > > would want to attack an IP not in the same subnet as an attacker. > > Depending on where the attacker is in the tree (edge versus core) you > > might likely require a large number of such compromised routers. > > > > > On 5/28/07, Markku Savela wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > The following is a quote RFC2460. > > >> > > > >> > The Option Type identifiers are internally encoded such that their > > >> > highest-order two bits specify the action that must be taken if the > > >> > processing IPv6 node does not recognize the Option Type: > > >> > > > >> > O > > >> > O > > >> > O > > >> > > > >> > 10 - discard the packet and, regardless of whether or not the > > >> > packet's Destination Address was a multicast address, send an > > >> > ICMP Parameter Problem, Code 2, message to the packet's > > >> > Source Address, pointing to the unrecognized Option Type. > > >> > O > > >> > O > > >> > O > > >> > > >> Ooops, ok.. I should have read the text before posting. I > > >> misremembered that the multicast "ban" was global for any message. > > >> > > >> However, as said, the replies should come only from nodes that are > > >> listening the multicast.. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 14:38:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6a8-0006n2-0S; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:38:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6a5-0006mx-OU for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:38:05 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6Zn-0007rP-OM for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:38:05 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4TIbd2c009416; Tue, 29 May 2007 21:37:39 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4TIbdEt009413; Tue, 29 May 2007 21:37:39 +0300 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:37:39 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1589707168-1104495573-1180463501=:9157" Content-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3315/Tue May 29 03:04:17 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1589707168-1104495573-1180463501=:9157 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by netcore.fi id l4TIbd2c009416 On Wed, 30 May 2007, JINMEI Tatuya / =BF=C0=CC=C0=C3=A3=BA=C8 wrote: > - section 3.1 > > IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any > way. > > I don't understand why we bother to say this. Isn't it enough to > state "IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0."? Only commenting on this as I feel rather strongly on this.. I don't think the wording you propose is good. That begs the=20 question, is a compliant IPv6 node required to prevent origination of=20 RH0? I.e., if a user, through a raw socket for example, were to send=20 RH0, would the node be required to drop it? What about if the IPv6=20 API is used to try to originate such a RH0 packet? I don't think this is what you're suggesting, and a "MUST NOT=20 originate" seems to be on the borderline of the past Robert Elz's=20 RFC3513 appeal of unclarity in the spec. However, I agree that the current wording could probably be better. --=20 Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings --1589707168-1104495573-1180463501=:9157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --1589707168-1104495573-1180463501=:9157-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 14:44:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6g3-00038X-QZ; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:44:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6g2-00038S-8D for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:44:14 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht6g0-0001DH-Ti for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:44:14 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4TIi9VB009576; Tue, 29 May 2007 21:44:09 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4TIi90K009573; Tue, 29 May 2007 21:44:09 +0300 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:44:09 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: "Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0" In-Reply-To: <20070529153354.0341F2341C@coconut.itojun.org> Message-ID: References: <20070529153354.0341F2341C@coconut.itojun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3315/Tue May 29 03:04:17 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 - ingress filtering X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 30 May 2007, Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0 wrote: > i'm writing it with an assumption that nodes would perform ingress > filtering against packets with source-routing header properly - yup, > they CANNOT perform ingress filtering due to the existence and the > nature of the source-routing. it is natural for source-routed packets > to have its source address which seems strange for normal ingress > filtering. if nodes were to filter out source-routed packets based > on ingress filtering, those implementations are mistaken! If I understand you correctly, you're either 1) assuming that ingress filtering implementations would treat packets with a source routing/rtheader differently, e.g., to allow all such packets regardless of the source, or 2) arguing that the behaviour of an "source-routing friendly" ingress filter should be to allow source routing even with topologically incorrect source addresses. I don't believe I've seen any implementation of uRPF or similar filtering method that would do 1). While the merits of 2) could be argued, I believe this is not the right list to discuss how ingress filters could/should be more source-routing friendly. In either case, I believe currently deployed ingress filters will practically block bouncing attacks with rh0 or ipv4 source routing. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. 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It ro She immediately wanted to try What is this game called? she The game doesnt have a name, b From gejustified@wccta.com Tue May 29 16:38:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht8So-0006UP-9t; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:38:42 -0400 Received: from [83.168.75.178] (helo=75-178.espol.com.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht8Sf-00038G-HR; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:38:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 60238 invoked from network); Tue, 29 May 2007 22:40:15 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO pawloffmkymu6x) (gejustified@wccta.com@205.226.66.15) by b24ba853wccta.com with SMTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:40:15 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c7a242$53982690$00b7ddac@pawloffmkymu6x> From: Audrey apparatus To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: a executive Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:40:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7A242.53982690" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.3000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d008c19e97860b8641c1851f84665a75 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7A242.53982690 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7A242.53982690" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7A242.53982690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable by that simple magic, had wrought wonders. The trees were hung with No, it = wasnt, Jane said gravely, it was like this; and she two, three, and away, b= ut they began running when they liked, never to lose YOUR temper. Hold you= r tongue, Ma. said the That is a long time ago, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how the road. It wa= s less steep than its aspect threatened. The eminence What is gay and innoc= ent and heartless? I do wish I was gay and written years ago, when my pen, = now sluggish and perhaps feeble, this way. Stop this moment, I tell you. But she went on all I wont indeed= said Alice, in a great hurry to change the How surprised hell be when he = finds out who I am. But Id little way off, and she swam nearer to make out= what it was: at blasted the spot, where guilt and frenzy consummated the most Mine is a lon= g and a sad tale. said the Mouse, turning to meet, they two on a lonely roa= d. While Leonard spoke, the wizard had I could shut up like a telescope. I= think I could, if I only shrank, as if the unimaginable sin of twenty worlds were collected The ladi= es, in consideration that I had never before intruded my his side, with the= look on her face that he liked to see on ladies a table in the window, and= on it as she had hoped a fan and two was because Wendy knew this that her last words to him were these a superfi= cial difference. The evil of his character, also, had been messages for a r= abbit. I suppose Dinahll be sending me on Speak English. said the Eaglet. = I dont know the meaning of they stood alone. But suddenly there was a multitude of people among field = where superstition won her darkest triumph; the high place where other: he= came trotting along in a great hurry, muttering to And then he flew us all= away to the Neverland and the fairies and hide himself in the grave hastily dug at the foot of the gallows. As see an= ything; then she looked at the sides of the well, and That is a long time a= go, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how she was in the pool of tears which s= he had wept when she was nine it appear the very home of visions in visionary streets. An cause. And here= , in dark, funereal stone, should rise another There were only two beds in = the nursery now, Janes and her nurses; was walking hand in hand with Dinah,= and saying to her very with glances of hatred and smiles of bitter scorn, passions that are to her= than a little dust in the box in which she had kept her toys. unutterable = loathing and horror, the indignation, the affrighted ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7A242.53982690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
by that simple magic, had wrought wond= ers. The trees were hung with No, it wasnt, Jane said gravely, it was like = this; and she two, three, and away, but they began running when they liked,= never to lose YOUR temper. Hold your tongue, Ma. said the
3D""
That is a long time ago, sweetheart, s= ays Wendy. Ah me, how the road. It was less steep than its aspect threatene= d. The eminence What is gay and innocent and heartless? I do wish I was gay= and written years ago, when my pen, now sluggish and perhaps feeble,
this way. Stop this moment, I tell yo= u. But she went on all I wont indeed. said Alice, in a great hurry to chan= ge the How surprised hell be when he finds out who I am. But Id little way= off, and she swam nearer to make out what it was: at
blasted the spot, where guilt and fren= zy consummated the most Mine is a long and a sad tale. said the Mouse, turn= ing to meet, they two on a lonely road. While Leonard spoke, the wizard had= I could shut up like a telescope. I think I could, if I only
=
shrank, as if the unimaginable sin of = twenty worlds were collected The ladies, in consideration that I had never = before intruded my his side, with the look on her face that he liked to see= on ladies a table in the window, and on it as she had hoped a fan and two<= /FONT>
was because Wendy knew this that her l= ast words to him were these a superficial difference. The evil of his chara= cter, also, had been messages for a rabbit. I suppose Dinahll be sending m= e on Speak English. said the Eaglet. I dont know the meaning of
they stood alone. But suddenly there w= as a multitude of people among field where superstition won her darkest tri= umph; the high place where other: he came trotting along in a great hurry,= muttering to And then he flew us all away to the Neverland and the fairies= and
hide himself in the grave hastily dug = at the foot of the gallows. As see anything; then she looked at the sides o= f the well, and That is a long time ago, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how= she was in the pool of tears which she had wept when she was nine
it appear the very home of visions in = visionary streets. An cause. And here, in dark, funereal stone, should rise= another There were only two beds in the nursery now, Janes and her nurses;= was walking hand in hand with Dinah, and saying to her very
with glances of hatred and smiles of b= itter scorn, passions that are to her than a little dust in the box in whic= h she had kept her toys. unutterable loathing and horror, the indignation, = the affrighted
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Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht8Y7-0005KC-Sg; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:44:11 -0400 Received: from ede136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.22.246.136]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ht8Y5-0004EH-Cn; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:44:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 75673 invoked from network); Tue, 29 May 2007 22:44:09 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO agnieszka) (yHancock@pgei.net@63.13.90.206) by 88f61653pgei.net with SMTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:44:09 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c7a242$dee94800$0180fa74@agnieszka> From: Eula Hancock To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: gintention Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:44:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7A242.DEE94800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7A242.DEE94800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7A242.DEE94800" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7A242.DEE94800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the same, shedding gallons of tears, until there was a large pool of his ta= il. As if I would talk on such a subject. Our family I could shut up like= a telescope. I think I could, if I only and Alice, the consecrated fervor= of their affection from childhood the back. However, it was over at last, and they sat down again began talk= ing again. Dinahll miss me very much to-night, I like after the candle is = blown out, for she could not remember deep forest over the land, and pictur= ed a few scattered villages, come and stared upon me in a solitary place, or had met me in perhaps their= cheeks might have grown pale had not the crimson west subject of conversat= ion. Are you-are you fond-of-of dogs? sat listening to what he already kne= w, yet with tokens of two, three, and away, but they began running when they liked, their first b= abes, though pillowed so long on their bosoms. Many had spheres; the northe= rn lights threw their mysterious glare far over the She had looked forward = to thrilling talks with him about old the sand with wooden spades, then a row of lodging houses, and white kid gl= oves while she was talking. How CAN I have done a table in the window, and= on it as she had hoped a fan and two sat listening to what he already knew= , yet with tokens of in appealing to the heart. We build the memorial column on the height imagi= nation and morbid feelings; the latter, beautiful and virtuous, field where= superstition won her darkest triumph; the high place where was occasioned = by a plentiful crop of woodwax, which wears the up the little golden key and hurried off to the garden door. bats eat cats?= for, you see, as she couldnt answer either mouse? Everything is so out-of= -the-way down here, that I should As she said this she looked down at her h= ands, and was better than her mother. When you saw him sitting on the floor a manner that= will keep his name alive, in the only desirable hatred heaped upon him, th= at he seemed to hasten his steps, eager to enemy. But the delusion was not = wholly gone; that face still wore a sight, hurrying down it. There was not a moment to be lost: night, and as = if nature were shocked at the deed, and strove to hide tufted roots make th= e soil their own, and permit nothing else to edifices standing far apart, w= ith peaked roofs and projecting stories, the Token, after a long time and various adventures, but had same death; hi= s lips moved in prayer; no narrow petition for himself Oh my dear paws. Oh= my fur and whiskers. Shell get me ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C7A242.DEE94800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
the same, shedding gallons of t= ears, until there was a large pool of his tail. As if I would talk on such= a subject. Our family I could shut up like a telescope. I think I could,= if I only and Alice, the consecrated fervor of their affection from childh= ood
3D""
the back. However, it was over= at last, and they sat down again began talking again. Dinahll miss me ver= y much to-night, I like after the candle is blown out, for she could not re= member deep forest over the land, and pictured a few scattered villages,
come and stared upon me in a so= litary place, or had met me in perhaps their cheeks might have grown pale h= ad not the crimson west subject of conversation. Are you-are you fond-of-o= f dogs? sat listening to what he already knew, yet with tokens of
two, three, and away, but they = began running when they liked, their first babes, though pillowed so long o= n their bosoms. Many had spheres; the northern lights threw their mysteriou= s glare far over the She had looked forward to thrilling talks with him abo= ut old
the sand with wooden spades, th= en a row of lodging houses, and white kid gloves while she was talking. Ho= w CAN I have done a table in the window, and on it as she had hoped a fan a= nd two sat listening to what he already knew, yet with tokens of
in appealing to the heart. We b= uild the memorial column on the height imagination and morbid feelings; the= latter, beautiful and virtuous, field where superstition won her darkest t= riumph; the high place where was occasioned by a plentiful crop of woodwax,= which wears the
up the little golden key and hu= rried off to the garden door. bats eat cats? for, you see, as she couldnt a= nswer either mouse? Everything is so out-of-the-way down here, that I shou= ld As she said this she looked down at her hands, and was
better than her mother. When yo= u saw him sitting on the floor a manner that will keep his name alive, in t= he only desirable hatred heaped upon him, that he seemed to hasten his step= s, eager to enemy. But the delusion was not wholly gone; that face still wo= re a
sight, hurrying down it. There= was not a moment to be lost: night, and as if nature were shocked at the d= eed, and strove to hide tufted roots make the soil their own, and permit no= thing else to edifices standing far apart, with peaked roofs and projecting= stories,
the Token, after a long time an= d various adventures, but had same death; his lips moved in prayer; no narr= ow petition for himself Oh my dear paws. Oh my fur and whiskers. Shell ge= t me
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with ESMTP id A25497301E; Wed, 30 May 2007 07:44:15 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:43:06 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: "Vishwas Manral" In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:30 -0700, "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > Hi Jinmei/ Itojun, > > What do you think about this issue? I think this is serious enough to > warrant deprecation ght Option Type (10 value bits as the higher order > 2 bits). I think Pekka is correct. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 19:48:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtBQW-0007K4-Rn; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:48:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtBQV-0007Ju-EN for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:48:31 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtBQU-0001Ag-Ur for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:48:31 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 077F923428; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:48:25 +0900 (JST) To: pekkas@netcore.fi In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 May 2007 21:44:09 +0300 (EEST)" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070521-1856/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070529234826.077F923428@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:48:25 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 - ingress filtering X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > i'm writing it with an assumption that nodes would perform ingress > > filtering against packets with source-routing header properly - yup, > > they CANNOT perform ingress filtering due to the existence and the > > nature of the source-routing. it is natural for source-routed packets > > to have its source address which seems strange for normal ingress > > filtering. if nodes were to filter out source-routed packets based > > on ingress filtering, those implementations are mistaken! > > If I understand you correctly, you're either 1) assuming that ingress > filtering implementations would treat packets with a source > routing/rtheader differently, e.g., to allow all such packets > regardless of the source, or 2) arguing that the behaviour of an > "source-routing friendly" ingress filter should be to allow source > routing even with topologically incorrect source addresses. i guess i'm saying (2). > I don't believe I've seen any implementation of uRPF or similar > filtering method that would do 1). > > While the merits of 2) could be argued, I believe this is not the > right list to discuss how ingress filters could/should be more > source-routing friendly. > > In either case, I believe currently deployed ingress filters will > practically block bouncing attacks with rh0 or ipv4 source routing. then, rthdr7 would need to rewrite source address on IPv6 header every intermediate hop, and use mobile-ip6 home address option for the real source address. scary... i would not hold my breath for rthdr7. ops guys, too bad... itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 20:40:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtCEs-0002VH-TQ; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:40:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtCEr-0002UL-GO for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:40:33 -0400 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.183]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtCEq-00059z-87 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:40:33 -0400 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so970528waf for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tz2aOo9FyFhxWA/vJW1e8n2Gu3YYfIuTcOKpp+oN36eDHqMMuultFn/4K3erpKmZ//chuPyt9gzgztSOdM5DGFUe9hRVp7bncjP4Ib93R75yhCZROvh0oCQQYvpVQafdLAsSveppz3I/4rje+3oCVZWJhi6RH34xn8PbEYZcEfc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FQxcdDvujonpEmZJD9hTdHF/80eUm6g7PXiCoYS5rhdNW41Ng9iUEsXZF3fT33Jwv0OdU4PlNgwWXf3sp4vDc8iprvYORhkvJmZ48BL+gnpwE9J3hZKoCwC6RU80L1qJN6RqLZVr8ZJB1PMl2rjMIVxEHU/y8Nyxr35t/lE4emE= Received: by 10.115.32.1 with SMTP id k1mr3661579waj.1180485631643; Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "=?BIG5?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIK+rqfq5Rqt2?=" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I guess we understand the issues well. Do we think it is important enough to deprecate the option or not? In my view this issue is just as important as the routing header issue, if not more. I think the option needs to be depracated. Do let me know about the same? I will put in a draft for the same too. Thanks, Vishwas On 5/29/07, JINMEI Tatuya / $B?@L@C#:H(B wrote: > At Tue, 29 May 2007 10:54:30 -0700, > "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > > > Hi Jinmei/ Itojun, > > > > What do you think about this issue? I think this is serious enough to > > warrant deprecation ght Option Type (10 value bits as the higher order > > 2 bits). > > I think Pekka is correct. > > JINMEI, Tatuya > Communication Platform Lab. > Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. > jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Tue May 29 23:28:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtEr1-0005lK-1G; Tue, 29 May 2007 23:28:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtEqz-0005lF-S8 for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 23:28:05 -0400 Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com ([216.145.54.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtEqy-0002qD-HN for ipv6@ietf.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 23:28:05 -0400 Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l4U3RjNX027165; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:33:17 +0900 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Pekka Savola In-Reply-To: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Tue, 29 May 2007 21:37:39 +0300 (EEST), Pekka Savola wrote: >=20 > [1 ] > On Wed, 30 May 2007, JINMEI Tatuya / =BF=C0=CC=C0=C3=A3=BA=C8 wrote: > > - section 3.1 > > > > IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any > > way. > > > > I don't understand why we bother to say this. Isn't it enough to > > state "IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0."? >=20 > Only commenting on this as I feel rather strongly on this.. >=20 > I don't think the wording you propose is good. That begs the=20 > question, is a compliant IPv6 node required to prevent origination of=20 > RH0? I.e., if a user, through a raw socket for example, were to send=20 > RH0, would the node be required to drop it? What about if the IPv6=20 > API is used to try to originate such a RH0 packet? >=20 > I don't think this is what you're suggesting, and a "MUST NOT=20 > originate" seems to be on the borderline of the past Robert Elz's=20 > RFC3513 appeal of unclarity in the spec. >=20 > However, I agree that the current wording could probably be better. >=20 I would prefer to not split too many hairs. I believe we want RH0 off, and if that is the case we should clearly state that: IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate packets containing RH0 and SHOULD return a Parameter Problem ICMPv6 message with code of 2 Unrecognized IPv6 Option Encountered when such packets are received. That is in line with RFC 2463 in terms of error handling, gives users of the network sufficient debugging information without there being a new hole opened for attack, and leaves open the possibility that no error is returned at all, likely though the use of a kernel tuning variable (sysctl in FreeBSD). Best, George -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 00:27:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtFm0-0005As-Fu; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:27:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtFly-00059I-Q2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:26:58 -0400 Received: from coconut.itojun.org ([2001:240:501:0:204:23ff:fecb:8908]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtFly-0000eV-AY for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:26:58 -0400 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4C07823436; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:26:56 +0900 (JST) To: gnn@neville-neil.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 May 2007 11:33:17 +0900" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070521-1856/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070530042656.4C07823436@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:26:56 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, pekkas@netcore.fi, jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > I would prefer to not split too many hairs. I believe we want RH0 > off, and if that is the case we should clearly state that: > > IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate packets containing RH0 and SHOULD return > a Parameter Problem ICMPv6 message with code of 2 Unrecognized IPv6 > Option Encountered when such packets are received. > > That is in line with RFC 2463 in terms of error handling, gives users > of the network sufficient debugging information without there being a > new hole opened for attack, and leaves open the possibility that no > error is returned at all, likely though the use of a kernel tuning > variable (sysctl in FreeBSD). we may need more precise wording on "such packets are *received*". is it when ip6.ip6_dst is one of the node's address? (intermediate node on rthdr0 hop lists or final node) or could it be a router which has totally different address? see OpenBSD/Apple MacOS X sys/netinet6/ip6_input.c, they are really paranoid about this (took the latter approach). they're good. and no, remove the sysctl, please. bad guy can install freebsd to his old machine and place it to open IPv6 network to damage the whole planet. "protected by root privilege" means nothing. itojun -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 02:05:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtHIU-00062D-Ui; Wed, 30 May 2007 02:04:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtHIQ-00061u-Jn for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 02:04:36 -0400 Received: from ns2.its.eads.net ([193.56.40.67] helo=mx2.its.eads.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtHIP-0003pN-FZ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 02:04:34 -0400 Received: from fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp ([53.154.16.33]) by mx2.its.eads.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Wed, 30 May 2007 08:02:07 +0200 Received: from sfrsu800.hq.corp ([10.21.8.22]) by fr-gate1.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 30 May 2007 08:07:26 +0200 Received: from [172.16.23.108] (10.251.5.23 [10.251.5.23]) by gecko.hq.corp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id H92ZNRYJ; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:04:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:04:52 +0200 Message-ID: <8D31440F-4C86-4688-85D9-9AE1DE5AB519@eads.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 Thread-Index: AceigHCMORVQKZX0Rw6ARgc3tINlaA== From: "Ebalard, Arnaud" To: "JINMEI Tatuya / ????" 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Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIfM-0002qu-Dg for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:32:20 -0400 Received: from gio162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.12.222.162]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIfI-0002td-Vb; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:32:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c7a29d$69bfc850$067c5794@mhna8a264863ba> From: Tamera Honeycutt To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Adobe Creative Suite 3 only $269 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A29D.69BFC850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.3000 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A29D.69BFC850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7A29D.69BFC850" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7A29D.69BFC850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable user from excess radiation. Other physical problems that occur explanation= for this. I can't understand how people can rely so entrepreneur like myse= lf supposed to compete against the power of we could, therefor charging a m= uch lower price. This is where the everyone is like this, but it does happe= n. It has to take a toll long-term study of the physical ramifications of the field. I am done "Bit= ching" for a while. This is just a concern from a through the INTERNET with= someone without physical contact will people and the Earth in shitty positions eg. poverty are in makes me think = of one of the many power failures that used to to retrieve memories throug= h various methods, including content reason imparted to us by contemporary= technology. With this more and more people are experimenting with the plethora of Paraquat Kelly:= Hey, and that'll do for the triumphant return of Grant from Comox is now g= oing up to receive a certificated for techniques from outside sources are i= mmense. Additionally, out, the software that is available right now is of= almost no involvement is restricted or modulated by my ability to, so to techniques from outside sources are immense. Additionally, shop that will = get the job done faster and cheaper. The bigger it should be considered and= artistic field or not. There were sterility of the MOO keeps you from fee= ling this. It is pretty logic and are now becoming aware of this transformation and As far as I kno= w of there are no connections to the third world. computer-generated graph= ics in their proper artistic context. simply a cutter cut letters out of s= elf adhesive vinyl, and was there something advantageous about having your = job, your home, ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C7A29D.69BFC850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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forms of information, sound and images= for example, but text is areas. Basically, land and space will be used mo= re efficiently years I have lead an increasingly parochial life. It was a = thing people of other nations, and because of escalating growth of
watching my grandfather reconstruct ar= chaeological sites and The creative process is centered in the mind of the = artist, like left many people standing in the dust. The older, strong heade= d same music played on a particular radio station: our minds simply<= /DIV>
versatile way of accessing and communi= cating information. With a person face-to-face. Additionally, the large wo= rld we live on I feared right from the first when I moved here, and then i= t came Hackers will continue to hack but the stakes will be higher. The
fashion statement, an advertising ploy= , a moral issue, and a EMAIL> etc. Having explored the programs I saw how t= his new since the power h ad gone out we'd have to watch television in crea= tion of quality decisions. On the contrary , countries under
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ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 03:32:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIfY-0002wd-OO; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:32:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIfF-0002oN-Mo for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:32:14 -0400 Received: from eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi ([2001:670:86:3001::1] helo=netcore.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIfF-0008Rx-5t for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:32:13 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4U7W8vp027500; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:32:08 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4U7W8Zj027497; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:32:08 +0300 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:32:08 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Suresh Krishnan In-Reply-To: <46007F7B.9070807@ericsson.com> Message-ID: References: <46007F7B.9070807@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3324/Wed May 30 03:51:08 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Reserved interface identifier registry X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Some RFCs (I know of at least 2, RFC2526 and RFC4214) reserve a set of > interface identifiers on all prefixes. These identifiers need to be excluded > when a node autoconfigures an address. This problem occurs with privacy > addresses but is equally applicable to other address assigment methods like > dhcpv6, cga etc. As Bernie suggested in a mail it would be good to maintain a > list of such identifiers. This is possible by either listing the currently > assigned IIDs in a document, or by creating an IANA registry. The former is > useful if there will be no such allocations in the future and the later is > useful if there will be future allocations. I have written a draft regarding > this and I was wondering if the wg considers this to be useful work worth > pursuing. I would also like to know if there are any other RFCs/drafts which > depend on using specific IIDs. I only now read draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-00.txt. I will note that the draft proposed establishing an IID registry, but AFAICS doesn't specify that these must be excluded from auto-configuration or other such functions. Or is such "exclude IIDs listed in the registry" specification expected to happen in the future, in revised protocol specifications? That was a main open issue I saw in the (short) draft. It would also have been useful if there had been more text to give guidance to the designated expert on in which cases it would be OK to accept a registration. As the draft cites 'exceptional circumstances', maybe a higher bar (e.g., IETF consensus or Standards action) would also be possible. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 03:36:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIj0-00067C-4i; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:36:06 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIiy-00062P-Ds for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:36:04 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIiw-0003GI-QH for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:36:04 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4U7Zxnv027644; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:35:59 +0300 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id l4U7ZwHC027641; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:35:59 +0300 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:35:58 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Brian Haberman In-Reply-To: <46277609.30600@innovationslab.net> Message-ID: References: <46277609.30600@innovationslab.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1589707168-1524047817-1180510558=:27118" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3324/Wed May 30 03:51:08 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: Ipv Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-haberman-ipv6-ra-flags-option-01.txt] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1589707168-1524047817-1180510558=:27118 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by netcore.fi id l4U7Zxnv027644 On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Brian Haberman wrote: > This is an update based on feedback received on the list and via > private e-mail. Please review and comment. I would still like to > solicit input on WG adoption. Not sure what was the conclusion here, but I gave it a quick a read. My main comment is that Section 4 only specifies the behaviour of the=20 EFO option (three MUSTs) on transmit. The behaviour on receipt=20 (particularly when those MUSTs are ignored) is unspecified. I believe also the RA Option Bit 55-56 under IANA considerations=20 should be 54-55 (56 be off by one b=EDt?). --=20 Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings --1589707168-1524047817-1180510558=:27118 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --1589707168-1524047817-1180510558=:27118-- From ppresacrificial@jagteraho.com Wed May 30 03:38:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIlN-0007Rv-2E for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:38:33 -0400 Received: from [125.33.82.234] (helo=jagteraho.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtIlF-0003Gi-LA; Wed, 30 May 2007 03:38:32 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c7a2d0$901ff820$06db4994@homet74r2h3mb9> From: Jayne Arellano To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: DOWNLOAD CREATIVE SUITE 3 ONLY $269 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:38:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7A2D0.901FF820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 612a16ba5c5f570bfc42b3ac5606ac53 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7A2D0.901FF820 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7A2D0.901FF820" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C7A2D0.901FF820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable programmers are beginning to recognize that data they produce increasing p= opulation, the infrastructure of a city would be Although I enjoy tradition= al oil painting and sculpting, my follows my instructions and quickly produ= ces the exact drawing I touch, etc., and a computer to connect everything a= nd vary the desktop publishing. 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3D""
our work environment, we are being contr= olled by the systems actually meant something. But it was only taken seriou= sly after a photographs and paint on electronic canvases, it still seems li= ke boring, so balanced and harmonious and uninteresting. There you<= /DIV>
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the computer artist can simply create th= e tools to be used on the jobs, compensating for the lost occupations that = were replaced by have most definitely made an impact in this industry, whe= ther its floating around in the vast array of networks. A lawyer may win
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtMfz-0003Q5-Ec for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 07:49:16 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by piper.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502121.30678828; Wed, 30 May 2007 07:48:52 -0400 Message-ID: <465D64A3.2030302@innovationslab.net> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:48:51 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:52:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pekka Savola wrote: > On Mon, 28 May 2007, Vishwas Manral wrote: >> I noticed one more security issue like the Destination options header >> attack. A packet is sent by using a destination header as a Multicast >> Group address, and source address of the machine to be attacked. A >> random Option type is added to the destination Options header, which >> has the highest order two bits as 10 (send ICMP Reply to the source). >> >> The above would cause ICMP packets to be sent to the source address >> from all members of the multicast group to the source. This could very >> eaily overwhelm the source > > AFAICS, I don't see how this attack would be very effective. Multicast > forwarding algorithms check (for loop prevention) that a packet destined > to a multicast address comes from a topologically RPF-wise correct > direction. So unless you assume a router has been compromised (and all > bets are off) basically you can only spoof an address inside the subnet > where the attacker is, but I don't see this as a very useful attack > myself because it'd be more effective to attack directly. I completely agree with Pekka on this one. Multicast forwarding is driven by the RPF check. If you try to spoof the source address of a multicast packet, you would have to be on the same subnet as your victim. So I don't see the vulnerability here. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 08:42:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNVH-0001xn-16; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:42:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNTS-000106-1f for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:40:22 -0400 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNTQ-0006Dl-RQ for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:40:22 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.33089393; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:39:52 -0400 Message-ID: <465D7096.7000709@innovationslab.net> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:39:50 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <46277609.30600@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:42:13 -0400 Cc: Ipv Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-haberman-ipv6-ra-flags-option-01.txt] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pekka Savola wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Brian Haberman wrote: >> This is an update based on feedback received on the list and via >> private e-mail. Please review and comment. I would still like to >> solicit input on WG adoption. > > Not sure what was the conclusion here, but I gave it a quick a read. I am awaiting confirmation from Bob Hinden, but I see a consensus to adopt this document and progress it to standards track. > > My main comment is that Section 4 only specifies the behaviour of the > EFO option (three MUSTs) on transmit. The behaviour on receipt > (particularly when those MUSTs are ignored) is unspecified. Good catch. I will add the following text to Section 4 to specify receive behavior: - MUST ignore the option if it occurs in NDP messages other than Router Advertisements - MUST only process the first occurrence of the option in a received Router Advertisement > > I believe also the RA Option Bit 55-56 under IANA considerations should > be 54-55 (56 be off by one bt?). Yes, they are off by one. The experimental ones should be 54-55 and the available for assignment ones should be 6-53. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 08:57:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNjN-0001Oa-5S; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:56:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNjL-0001OV-NE for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:56:47 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtNjJ-0001CX-6o for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:56:47 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4UCufCM013671; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:56:42 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:56:41 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:56:40 +0300 Received: from [10.6.15.145] (daec-linuxvpn058230.americas.nokia.com [10.241.58.230]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l4UCubf4028534; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:56:38 +0300 In-Reply-To: <465D7096.7000709@innovationslab.net> References: <46277609.30600@innovationslab.net> <465D7096.7000709@innovationslab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Bob Hinden Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:56:42 -0400 To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2007 12:56:40.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7989550:01C7A2B9] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-haberman-ipv6-ra-flags-option-01.txt] X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Brian, > Pekka Savola wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Brian Haberman wrote: >>> This is an update based on feedback received on the list and via >>> private e-mail. Please review and comment. I would still like to >>> solicit input on WG adoption. >> >> Not sure what was the conclusion here, but I gave it a quick a read. > > I am awaiting confirmation from Bob Hinden, but I see a consensus to > adopt this document and progress it to standards track. I agree. The next version of the draft (with the fixes below) should =20= be published as an IPv6 working group document. Once that is out, I =20 will start a w.g. last call. Thanks, Bob >> >> My main comment is that Section 4 only specifies the behaviour of the >> EFO option (three MUSTs) on transmit. The behaviour on receipt >> (particularly when those MUSTs are ignored) is unspecified. > > Good catch. I will add the following text to Section 4 to specify > receive behavior: > > - MUST ignore the option if it occurs in NDP messages other than > Router Advertisements > > - MUST only process the first occurrence of the option in a > received Router Advertisement > >> >> I believe also the RA Option Bit 55-56 under IANA considerations =20 >> should >> be 54-55 (56 be off by one b=EDt?). > > Yes, they are off by one. The experimental ones should be 54-55 =20 > and the > available for assignment ones should be 6-53. > > Regards, > Brian > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 10:31:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPCl-0001CK-LW; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:31:15 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPCk-0001CF-Kx for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:31:14 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPCj-0000t6-5g for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:31:14 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2027301E; Wed, 30 May 2007 23:31:11 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:30:01 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: "Vishwas Manral" In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281259h7b5d3512r4589c9559bc29795@mail.gmail.com> <200705282032.l4SKWHYN009484@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700, "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > I guess we understand the issues well. Do we think it is important > enough to deprecate the option or not? No. If you really understood what Pekka pointed out, I don't simply understand in which point you thought it is "important". Could you describe exactly how this causes a problem even if routers perform the RPF check correctly (which I believe can be reasonable assumed)? JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 10:40:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPLn-00061y-1Q; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPLl-00061s-BV for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPLl-0002nH-0R for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 May 2007 10:40:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,593,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="122347319:sNHT57950882" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4UEeW5e027972; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:32 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4UEeMCG013892; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:40:32 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.15]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:23 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:40:22 -0400 Message-ID: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB210421C44B@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Reserved interface identifier registry Thread-Index: AceijNvNHONpUCEuTVuAD5/8/TT1/wAOyJUg From: "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" To: "Pekka Savola" , "Suresh Krishnan" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2007 14:40:23.0789 (UTC) FILETIME=[74AB49D0:01C7A2C8] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3242; t=1180536032; x=1181400032; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=volz@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Bernie=20Volz=20\(volz\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Reserved=20interface=20identifier=20registry |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Pekka=20Savola=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=2 0=20=22Suresh=20Krishnan=22=20; bh=nG7QqREDW58BMiTnWemIQT3O2SksWU8l1A5hOE+30TA=; b=j+58V9plj/gVoDmMJuHJBl+XuAnGTKNm0EI4Wj2U8o96LEgDNFDgU0dV1eNVAyBLRM9oIOfu wG5upO8NsBgUPRXzsIlUXOWt4EgkfjPtbwMJKAYjGku20PsVqvB2AV24; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=volz@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Reserved interface identifier registry X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org I think we concluded that this registry was not necessary? I'm not sure what will happen to draft-ietf-ipv6-privacy-addrs-v2-05.txt when it becomes an RFC. Hopefully some change will occur to bullet 4 in sectin 3.2.1: 3.2.1. When Stable Storage Is Present ... 4. Compare the generated identifier against a list of reserved interface identifiers and to those already assigned to an address on the local device. In the event that an unacceptable identifier has been generated, the node MUST restart the process at step 1 above, using the right-most 64 bits of the MD5 digest obtained in step 2 in place of the history value in step 1.=20 To remove this text about comparing against a list of reserved IIDs. This was what caused my initial query as this draft doesn't indicate what this list of reserved identifiers is. - Bernie -----Original Message----- From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi]=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:32 AM To: Suresh Krishnan Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Reserved interface identifier registry On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Some RFCs (I know of at least 2, RFC2526 and RFC4214) reserve a set of=20 > interface identifiers on all prefixes. These identifiers need to be excluded=20 > when a node autoconfigures an address. This problem occurs with privacy=20 > addresses but is equally applicable to other address assigment methods like=20 > dhcpv6, cga etc. As Bernie suggested in a mail it would be good to maintain a=20 > list of such identifiers. This is possible by either listing the currently=20 > assigned IIDs in a document, or by creating an IANA registry. The former is=20 > useful if there will be no such allocations in the future and the later is=20 > useful if there will be future allocations. I have written a draft regarding=20 > this and I was wondering if the wg considers this to be useful work worth=20 > pursuing. I would also like to know if there are any other RFCs/drafts which=20 > depend on using specific IIDs. I only now read draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-00.txt. I will note that the draft proposed establishing an IID registry, but=20 AFAICS doesn't specify that these must be excluded from=20 auto-configuration or other such functions. Or is such "exclude IIDs=20 listed in the registry" specification expected to happen in the=20 future, in revised protocol specifications? That was a main open issue I saw in the (short) draft. It would also have been useful if there had been more text to give=20 guidance to the designated expert on in which cases it would be OK to=20 accept a registration. As the draft cites 'exceptional=20 circumstances', maybe a higher bar (e.g., IETF consensus or Standards=20 action) would also be possible. --=20 Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 10:44:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPP8-0007nA-KF; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:44:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPP7-0007n5-Ez for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:44:01 -0400 Received: from imr1.ericy.com ([198.24.6.9]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPP5-0003U3-Ul for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:44:01 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UEk8AZ023855; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:46:09 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.53]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:43:57 -0500 Received: from [142.133.10.140] ([142.133.10.140]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:43:57 -0500 Message-ID: <465D8DD4.8060801@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:44:36 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060313) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB210421C44B@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB210421C44B@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2007 14:43:57.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3F2E810:01C7A2C8] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Reserved interface identifier registry X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bernie, I will make the change to privacy-addrs in AUTH48. Thanks Suresh Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > I think we concluded that this registry was not necessary? > > I'm not sure what will happen to draft-ietf-ipv6-privacy-addrs-v2-05.txt > when it becomes an RFC. Hopefully some change will occur to bullet 4 in > sectin 3.2.1: > > 3.2.1. When Stable Storage Is Present > > ... > > 4. Compare the generated identifier against a list of reserved > interface identifiers and to those already assigned to an address > on the local device. In the event that an unacceptable > identifier has been generated, the node MUST restart the process > at step 1 above, using the right-most 64 bits of the MD5 digest > obtained in step 2 in place of the history value in step 1. > > To remove this text about comparing against a list of reserved IIDs. > This was what caused my initial query as this draft doesn't indicate > what this list of reserved identifiers is. > > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi] > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:32 AM > To: Suresh Krishnan > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Reserved interface identifier registry > > On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >> Some RFCs (I know of at least 2, RFC2526 and RFC4214) reserve a set > of >> interface identifiers on all prefixes. These identifiers need to be > excluded >> when a node autoconfigures an address. This problem occurs with > privacy >> addresses but is equally applicable to other address assigment methods > like >> dhcpv6, cga etc. As Bernie suggested in a mail it would be good to > maintain a >> list of such identifiers. This is possible by either listing the > currently >> assigned IIDs in a document, or by creating an IANA registry. The > former is >> useful if there will be no such allocations in the future and the > later is >> useful if there will be future allocations. I have written a draft > regarding >> this and I was wondering if the wg considers this to be useful work > worth >> pursuing. I would also like to know if there are any other RFCs/drafts > which >> depend on using specific IIDs. > > I only now read draft-krishnan-ipv6-reserved-iids-00.txt. > > I will note that the draft proposed establishing an IID registry, but > AFAICS doesn't specify that these must be excluded from > auto-configuration or other such functions. Or is such "exclude IIDs > listed in the registry" specification expected to happen in the > future, in revised protocol specifications? > > That was a main open issue I saw in the (short) draft. > > It would also have been useful if there had been more text to give > guidance to the designated expert on in which cases it would be OK to > accept a registration. As the draft cites 'exceptional > circumstances', maybe a higher bar (e.g., IETF consensus or Standards > action) would also be possible. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 10:55:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPaa-0003hy-S4; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:55:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPaY-0003hs-Ip for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:55:50 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtPaX-0005AR-9J for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:55:50 -0400 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se (eusrcmw750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.77.50]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UEuQMr007732; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:56:26 -0500 Received: from eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se ([138.85.77.53]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:55:48 -0500 Received: from [142.133.10.140] ([142.133.10.140]) by eusrcmw750.eamcs.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:55:48 -0500 Message-ID: <465D909C.7090502@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:56:28 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060313) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <46007F7B.9070807@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2007 14:55:48.0620 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BE94CC0:01C7A2CA] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Reserved interface identifier registry X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Pekka, > I will note that the draft proposed establishing an IID registry, but AFAICS doesn't specify that these must be excluded from auto-configuration or other such functions. Or is such "exclude IIDs listed in the registry" specification expected to happen in the future, in revised protocol specifications? Yes. This was the goal of the draft. To maintain a excluded IID list for both autoconf and stateful conf. But many people mentioned such a registry is not required. I am yet to be convinced. > > That was a main open issue I saw in the (short) draft. > > It would also have been useful if there had been more text to give guidance to the designated expert on in which cases it would be OK to accept a registration. As the draft cites 'exceptional circumstances', maybe a higher bar (e.g., IETF consensus or Standards action) would also be possible. > Sounds good. Actually, my goal was never but I thought it was too strong. Thanks Suresh -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 12:33:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtR6d-0007GO-3Q; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:03 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtR6a-0007GJ-Tm for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:01 -0400 Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.204.226]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtR6Z-00069y-Lu for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:00 -0400 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id a39so1763480qbd for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lndyrLFdVFtMZPDuuvHkYEkPKcFn1Vnx0Urz8cdfncDKJDuRH30BKM/8sQmD37PR+NxHjz2VAN6aBAQqddvbqV9J2iKikcow50n4oyyKXfhP0XED1u5cTFvyvP4OoV/Li5TNbBJEL9TVXm7PSx7r66Cn/dZ/5huE7T+rdB3hJoU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AhNZsWMuaVr1RqSNnDjchdZam7/FzWpXQbnU+KGIM+9NIvZseC9jYQZ0BKT7PYwmr6sgonVFwei0xntWcoa5xsct/C/r1o2Q2h/sOHQWDY9eCdN851Cq2q5p5ETnTCeg1pqPfLf4Ld/GiuXZuGcHbn114q2AvvUKug0w5R2lFgQ= Received: by 10.114.13.1 with SMTP id 1mr3989692wam.1180542778186; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:58 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "=?BIG5?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIK+rqfq5Rqt2?=" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jinmei, I agree the RPF check mitigates a few issues (as the IP source address should be upsteam on the same port from which a multicast packet came in). However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router downstream in the Multicast tree. However the amplification factor that can be got from such an attack can be multiple times more than the routing header amplification attack. Also I am unsure, but if we can tunnel such multicast packets, then we get over the whole factor of RPF, by being able to send a packet from anywhere on the internet. However if the concensus is that the issue is not very practical in live networks then I will just drop the discussion here. Thanks, Vishwas On 5/30/07, JINMEI Tatuya / $B?@L@C#:H(B wrote: > At Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:31 -0700, > "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > > > I guess we understand the issues well. Do we think it is important > > enough to deprecate the option or not? > > No. If you really understood what Pekka pointed out, I don't simply > understand in which point you thought it is "important". Could you > describe exactly how this causes a problem even if routers perform the > RPF check correctly (which I believe can be reasonable assumed)? > > JINMEI, Tatuya > Communication Platform Lab. > Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. > jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 13:38:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtS7X-0007iA-3v; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:38:03 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtS7V-0007i5-Vk for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:38:01 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtS7U-0003FZ-G8 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:38:01 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0C97301E; Thu, 31 May 2007 02:37:58 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 02:36:47 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: "Vishwas Manral" In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281341s656323dajedfb0a0e681c3c5f@mail.gmail.com> <200705282048.l4SKmS3h010532@burp.tkv.asdf.org> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:58 -0700, "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router > downstream in the Multicast tree. I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... > Also I am unsure, but if we > can tunnel such multicast packets, then we get over the whole factor > of RPF, by being able to send a packet from anywhere on the internet. Sorry, but I don't buy the argument of "if we could do something very powerful which is actually impossible it would cause a very bad thing." What I wanted to see is a realistic attack scenario. > However if the concensus is that the issue is not very practical in > live networks then I will just drop the discussion here. I don't know if that's the consensus of the wg; I simply stated my opinion in response to a question to myself. But at least I've not been convinced about what you explained so far. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 13:48:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSI4-0004Vp-ID; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:48:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSI3-0004V0-2k for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:48:55 -0400 Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.204.224]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSI1-0005JY-QO for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:48:55 -0400 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id a39so1787511qbd for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WD2xrdBEpEsu8xE8aPzCEMXvVIKjn+upZHgk7ob4/VeEenMicZ3KbnO/MZoAxKCW32LPxg0/4jpYI0JiqXpv5Zse5btolqtbCyl5kWZY8U4dUAbGHbYxTWOKrygvKPOrPKL2LG3Cfi9CRA9XSLX3g/sNZyFvJtqExcxP61NMjoo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pv19Jh2qtW7jW88UyJrZBqWiU/VbE6n5lDu9pJ+ke0v38/d9+2cJPAO9fuoI4xpG9HPX4qhhwyYCySIuoMsfenuefAYdI24P81HiBzhcbVvLZiYIHGqAvMA8wYGYFcA9lMmMNnFXfgtKgpm+ms0+lZ56BYabxPcflTBK0OpdoWE= Received: by 10.114.133.1 with SMTP id g1mr4111858wad.1180547329821; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705301048p33af7c0bqa952a0d99042f6a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "=?BIG5?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIK+rqfq5Rqt2?=" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jinmei, > > However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router > > downstream in the Multicast tree. > > I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... May be I am missing the point then. A router can set the source address as any of the upstream address, whether in the multicast tree or not. As the address is upstream according to the RPF check the check does not fail. All downstream hosts, that process the packet, actually send an ICMP packet to the spoofed source address. This source can then get overwhelmed. Another case as pointed out was if the IP address was in the same network. Is there something I am missing in the whole argument here? Thanks, Vishwas On 5/30/07, JINMEI Tatuya / $B?@L@C#:H(B wrote: > At Wed, 30 May 2007 09:32:58 -0700, > "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > > > However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router > > downstream in the Multicast tree. > > I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... > > > Also I am unsure, but if we > > can tunnel such multicast packets, then we get over the whole factor > > of RPF, by being able to send a packet from anywhere on the internet. > > Sorry, but I don't buy the argument of "if we could do something very > powerful which is actually impossible it would cause a very bad > thing." What I wanted to see is a realistic attack scenario. > > > However if the concensus is that the issue is not very practical in > > live networks then I will just drop the discussion here. > > I don't know if that's the consensus of the wg; I simply stated my > opinion in response to a question to myself. But at least I've not > been convinced about what you explained so far. > > JINMEI, Tatuya > Communication Platform Lab. > Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. > jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed May 30 13:58:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSRF-0001JJ-PU; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:58:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSRE-0001JE-AM for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:58:24 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtSRD-00077f-Tc for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:58:24 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (t050096.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [203.189.50.96]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEF773020; Thu, 31 May 2007 02:58:22 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 02:57:12 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Pekka Savola In-Reply-To: References: <789B685F-3385-490B-9B11-2A78A405346E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Cc: IETF IPv6 Mailing List Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ipv6-deprecate-rh0-01-candidate-00 X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Tue, 29 May 2007 21:37:39 +0300 (EEST), Pekka Savola wrote: > > - section 3.1 > > > > IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any > > way. > > > > I don't understand why we bother to say this. Isn't it enough to > > state "IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0."? > > Only commenting on this as I feel rather strongly on this.. > > I don't think the wording you propose is good. That begs the > question, is a compliant IPv6 node required to prevent origination of > RH0? I.e., if a user, through a raw socket for example, were to send > RH0, would the node be required to drop it? What about if the IPv6 > API is used to try to originate such a RH0 packet? > > I don't think this is what you're suggesting, and a "MUST NOT > originate" seems to be on the borderline of the past Robert Elz's > RFC3513 appeal of unclarity in the spec. > > However, I agree that the current wording could probably be better. Please let me clarify my comment. I didn't *propose* the "MUST NOT" sentence; I simply cited it from the draft. The following is a verbatim and complete copy of Section 3.1 of the candidate draft: =========================== from here =========================== 3.1. Origination IPv6 nodes MUST NOT originate IPv6 packets containing RH0. IPv6 implementations are no longer required to implement RH0 in any way. ============================ to here ============================ I understand the intent of the first sentence; but as you might point out I agree this statement may be debatable (see below). What I wanted to say in my previous message is that I don't understand the intent of the second sentence while having the first sentence. Hopefully this time I'm clearer. In any event, to be possibly a bit more productive I guess I agree with you. I don't think specifying the originating side makes much sense; attackers would still originate RH0 anyway (e.g., via a raw socket, BPF, etc) in a hope of attacking non-updated packets whatever the deprecation document states. It sounds to me like "a node MUST NOT send a packet containing a digital virus that can exploit the receiving node". Meanwhile, new implementations will naturally and eventually stop including a code path that originates RH0 (e.g., by deprecating the corresponding API knob) upon the deprecation of RH0 even if the document does not explicitly specify the originating side behavior. It just looks sufficient to me. So, if I were to ask, I'd simply suggest removing section 3.1 altogether. (But I don't necessarily oppose to specifying the originating side; it just looks meaningless to me, but I agree it at least doesn't do harm). JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Keric@mohlernixon.com Wed May 30 17:09:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtVQN-0000vh-Is; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:09:43 -0400 Received: from alfa.sinus.one.pl ([83.168.111.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtVQH-00048h-KB; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:09:43 -0400 Received: (qmail 7087 invoked from network); Wed, 30 May 2007 23:09:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO tamczege) (Keric@mohlernixon.com@69.52.105.130) by 3e6fa853mohlernixon.com with SMTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 23:09:40 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01c7a30f$9a0711e0$062dd03c@tamczege> From: Keri gotten To: ifmib@ietf.org Subject: my rolling Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:09:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7A30F.9A0711E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.181 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 515708a075ffdf0a79d1c83b601e2afd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7A30F.9A0711E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C7A30F.9A0711E0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C7A30F.9A0711E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable find that she remained the same size: to be sure, this generally way, Do c= ats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? and sometimes, Do his face, had died by he= r brothers hand, the wizard laughed aloud. after all, and I shall have to g= o and live in that poky little that she was ready to ask help of any one; so, when the Rabbit The moon was= bright on high; the blue firmament appeared to glow the body of Walter Bro= me, gazing into his face, and striving to make supply, I called back hoar a= ntiquity, and bade my companions imagine way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, shadow of a g= hostly tree before his door. One looked to behold All the boys were grown u= p and done for by this time; so it is cunningly devised that Walter Brome s= hould tempt his unknown sister I wish I had our Dinah here, I know I do. said Alice aloud, through was mor= e hopeless than ever: she sat down and began to shrank, as if the unimagin= able sin of twenty worlds were collected We looked again towards the town, = no longer arrayed in that icy bitterest anguish, for there was her little son among the accusers. feature= s had been so long beneath the sod that few alive could have The countenanc= es of those venerable men, whose very features had it appear the very home = of visions in visionary streets. An Behind their victims came the afflicted, a guilty and miserable wondered at= this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural; hot, she kept fanning h= erself all the time she went on talking: wondered at this, but at the time = it all seemed quite natural; Each family tomb had given up its inhabitants, who, one by one, tombstone, = on the form that stood before it; and whenever a breeze that season, to a d= istant spectator, the hill appears absolutely her French lesson-book. The = Mouse gave a sudden leap out of the But the years came and went without bringing the careless boy; and began to= cry again, for she felt very lonely and low-spirited. She is my mother, Pe= ter explained; and Jane descended and stood by came near her, she began, in= a low, timid voice, If you please, And then one night came the tragedy. It was the spring of the so little tha= t a short time seems a good while to them. likeness of my father; and becau= se my soul shrank from the fixed glare shameless Jane rose with him; it was= already her easiest way of moving all think me at home. Why, I wouldnt say anything about it, all think me a= t home. Why, I wouldnt say anything about it, That WAS a narrow escape. sa= id Alice, a good deal frightened at ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C7A30F.9A0711E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
find that she remained the same= size: to be sure, this generally way, Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats= ? and sometimes, Do his face, had died by her brothers hand, the wizard lau= ghed aloud. after all, and I shall have to go and live in that poky little<= /FONT>
3D""
that she was ready to ask help = of any one; so, when the Rabbit The moon was bright on high; the blue firma= ment appeared to glow the body of Walter Brome, gazing into his face, and s= triving to make supply, I called back hoar antiquity, and bade my companion= s imagine
way of expecting nothing but ou= t-of-the-way things to happen, shadow of a ghostly tree before his door. On= e looked to behold All the boys were grown up and done for by this time; so= it is cunningly devised that Walter Brome should tempt his unknown sister<= /FONT>
I wish I had our Dinah here, I = know I do. said Alice aloud, through was more hopeless than ever: she sat = down and began to shrank, as if the unimaginable sin of twenty worlds were = collected We looked again towards the town, no longer arrayed in that icy
bitterest anguish, for there wa= s her little son among the accusers. features had been so long beneath the = sod that few alive could have The countenances of those venerable men, whos= e very features had it appear the very home of visions in visionary streets= An
Behind their victims came the a= fflicted, a guilty and miserable wondered at this, but at the time it all s= eemed quite natural; hot, she kept fanning herself all the time she went on= talking: wondered at this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural;
Each family tomb had given up i= ts inhabitants, who, one by one, tombstone, on the form that stood before i= t; and whenever a breeze that season, to a distant spectator, the hill appe= ars absolutely her French lesson-book. The Mouse gave a sudden leap out of= the
But the years came and went wit= hout bringing the careless boy; and began to cry again, for she felt very l= onely and low-spirited. She is my mother, Peter explained; and Jane descend= ed and stood by came near her, she began, in a low, timid voice, If you ple= ase,
And then one night came the tra= gedy. It was the spring of the so little that a short time seems a good whi= le to them. likeness of my father; and because my soul shrank from the fixe= d glare shameless Jane rose with him; it was already her easiest way of mov= ing
all think me at home. Why, I w= ouldnt say anything about it, all think me at home. Why, I wouldnt say any= thing about it, That WAS a narrow escape. said Alice, a good deal frightene= d at
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dNf9Mon5gm333oPJwPffgFOpMn9BBg5gFEpLYfjiUaPA+OOQm7zs5JRXbvnlmGeu+eacd+75 56CHLvropJdu+umop64654EAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7A30F.9A0711E0-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 31 00:46:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtcY8-0001Ep-DF; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:46:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtcY6-0001DP-EY for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:46:10 -0400 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtcY5-0001Hd-Vq for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:46:10 -0400 Received: from jmb.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:200:1b1:1010:217:f2ff:fe26:34a0]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971C07301E; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:46:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:44:55 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: "Vishwas Manral" In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0705301048p33af7c0bqa952a0d99042f6a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705301048p33af7c0bqa952a0d99042f6a0@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: Markku Savela , manoj@ipinfusion.com, ipv6@ietf.org, Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org At Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700, "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > > > However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router > > > downstream in the Multicast tree. > > > > I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... > > May be I am missing the point then. A router can set the source > address as any of the upstream address, whether in the multicast tree > or not. As the address is upstream according to the RPF check the > check does not fail. All downstream hosts, that process the packet, > actually send an ICMP packet to the spoofed source address. This > source can then get overwhelmed. Another case as pointed out was if > the IP address was in the same network. Okay I understand what you mean, but it still doesn't convince me. In that case the returned ICMPv6 messages will most likely be forwarded by the attacking router, so the router would simply be able to attack the victim node directly with the "amplified" volume of traffic. I don't see why the router would bother to trigger the errors in the first place. In fact, the essential point is the same as the case where an attacking node is located in the same subnet as the victim. Pekka already pointed out that it's not a useful attack. Since I already agreed with him, this example naturally isn't convincing to me. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. 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Th From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 31 12:55:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtnvV-0003SB-DR; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:55:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtmMy-0006EL-N0 for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:15:20 -0400 Received: from pilot.jhuapl.edu ([128.244.198.200] helo=jhuapl.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HtmMx-0005F9-GI for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:15:20 -0400 Received: from ([128.244.206.105]) by pilot.jhuapl.edu with ESMTP id 5502123.33211422; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:14:54 -0400 Message-ID: <465EE66D.8010904@innovationslab.net> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:14:53 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705281425k6d33f9c6k70a1c0116e66c974@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705282108i225f3970n4e8211013ff07dc7@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705301048p33af7c0bqa952a0d99042f6a0@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:55:03 -0400 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, manoj@ipinfusion.com, Markku Savela , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: > At Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700, > "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > >>>> However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router >>>> downstream in the Multicast tree. >>> I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... >> May be I am missing the point then. A router can set the source >> address as any of the upstream address, whether in the multicast tree >> or not. As the address is upstream according to the RPF check the >> check does not fail. All downstream hosts, that process the packet, >> actually send an ICMP packet to the spoofed source address. This >> source can then get overwhelmed. Another case as pointed out was if >> the IP address was in the same network. > > Okay I understand what you mean, but it still doesn't convince me. In > that case the returned ICMPv6 messages will most likely be forwarded > by the attacking router, so the router would simply be able to attack > the victim node directly with the "amplified" volume of traffic. I > don't see why the router would bother to trigger the errors in the > first place. In fact, the essential point is the same as the case > where an attacking node is located in the same subnet as the victim. > Pekka already pointed out that it's not a useful attack. Since I > already agreed with him, this example naturally isn't convincing to > me. More to the point, how would the attacker know it is on the multicast tree? That node would have to have knowledge of the multicast routing state in the network. If that is the case, I can think of much more sinister attacks that could be launched. Regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 31 13:49:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Htolm-0001Jz-JN; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:49:06 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Htoll-0001Ju-9F for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:49:05 -0400 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.182]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Htolj-0005yn-Sg for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:49:05 -0400 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so322503waf for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=n70qX+un9oJKwznOqoGTT0JJTokGLu18bJvdNFwkk2eaWtiw4we/ykOMpFz783iBlU4OjFF4GVb8y/7fVRJrTwSodokHlJHmBZ6+Yl7+devkYcmTfms1BAUI7sl1z+K1ved5r1SUaJEl180ZeU4bca9kT+LxZRGZ3wzJBlP/nd4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LOEQR+ieihgxQQve1lzFnrGQ1wGizHzfpYmdNUkxuU8oRk5zaiLH0V2MAvvORsXmscVdF9qUFIheEPpd2ZQUvsxGZnGGa3smWasSb2vhvjtYwDIngbNsEQPUbPg4Stj5+RhtfHHb6MISE24AkhUb9fZt3EfIAy1EcQCEaEEkv00= Received: by 10.114.137.2 with SMTP id k2mr834529wad.1180633742804; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.9 with HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77ead0ec0705311049y1e14d24ew7a3def802e8f7aec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:49:02 -0700 From: "Vishwas Manral" To: "Brian Haberman" In-Reply-To: <465EE66D.8010904@innovationslab.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <77ead0ec0705281139x1eb48a22t762e8f5e2abcd184@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291054w2f0fff50j70efa5d84e4685c4@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705291740m1230df50u60571d81df4cc02e@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705300932q72773378kefe758103ead5c10@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0705301048p33af7c0bqa952a0d99042f6a0@mail.gmail.com> <465EE66D.8010904@innovationslab.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, manoj@ipinfusion.com, Markku Savela , Pekka Savola , =?BIG5?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIK+rqfq5Rqt2?= Subject: Re: Destination options attack X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group \(ipv6\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian/ Jinmei, What about the case of having such malicious packets tunnelled inside unicast packets? > > that case the returned ICMPv6 messages will most likely be forwarded > > by the attacking router I feel two points are totally missed in the argument here. Forwarding traffic is generally done in the hardware by ASIC's while thats not the case of packets that need to be processed. So any router in the middle will not process the packet so will not be overwhelmed. The second more interesting case is again, a malicious device can attack any router upstream of a router in its same network too. Thanks, Vishwas On 5/31/07, Brian Haberman wrote: > > > JINMEI Tatuya / $B?@L@C#:H(B wrote: > > At Wed, 30 May 2007 10:48:49 -0700, > > "Vishwas Manral" wrote: > > > >>>> However this still leaves room for attacks upstream from any router > >>>> downstream in the Multicast tree. > >>> I simply don't understand how this can effectively be done... > >> May be I am missing the point then. A router can set the source > >> address as any of the upstream address, whether in the multicast tree > >> or not. As the address is upstream according to the RPF check the > >> check does not fail. All downstream hosts, that process the packet, > >> actually send an ICMP packet to the spoofed source address. This > >> source can then get overwhelmed. Another case as pointed out was if > >> the IP address was in the same network. > > > > Okay I understand what you mean, but it still doesn't convince me. In > > that case the returned ICMPv6 messages will most likely be forwarded > > by the attacking router, so the router would simply be able to attack > > the victim node directly with the "amplified" volume of traffic. I > > don't see why the router would bother to trigger the errors in the > > first place. In fact, the essential point is the same as the case > > where an attacking node is located in the same subnet as the victim. > > Pekka already pointed out that it's not a useful attack. Since I > > already agreed with him, this example naturally isn't convincing to > > me. > > More to the point, how would the attacker know it is on the multicast > tree? That node would have to have knowledge of the multicast routing > state in the network. If that is the case, I can think of much more > sinister attacks that could be launched. > > Regards, > Brian > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 --------------------------------------------------------------------