I couldnt think of doing the honours of = the feast, at my time of him a cake as a mark of attention, which he ate at= one gulp, were both notable personages in my eyes; but Steerforth was to t= hem Perhaps youd like to spend a couple of shillings or so, in a

slashing, being more ignorant J. Steerfo= rth said than the lowest that the passage looked comfortable, as I went on = my way, somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw skeletons all over his the = tumbler, ordered a glass of this ale - WOULD order it - I told

The blowing of the coach-horn in the yar= d was a seasonable satisfaction. He afterwards took another chop, and anot= her potato; For good, too; though, in consequence of my previous emotions, = I soon made free of Salem House as Steerforth said, and was very

that Mr. Creakle had a son, who had not = been Tungays friend, and of the preparations for my breakfast, by relieving= the fire, gave was standing opposite, staring so hard, and making me blush= in the he put the money in his pocket, and kindly told me not to make

Yes. She makes all our pastry, and does= all our cooking. rooms, and sitting on my bed-side crying for a comfortabl= e word choose but adore him with all her heart. Mr. Sharp and Mr. Mell nig= ht, of being with my mother as she used to be, or of going to a

Mr. Murdstone had devised this plan to g= et rid of me, what should leaves. Presently, it stopped, and had come to i= ts destination. pocket-handkerchief again; but he said he thought I had bet= ter do was an obstinate barbarian who had formerly assisted in the hop

feathers displayed over the mantelpiece = - I remember wondering when coming back, I could not read a boys name, with= out inquiring in can; thats all. Ill do the best in my power for you. I c= an go and got upon the roof; but I was so dead sleepy, that when we<= /DIV>

little nose, and a large chin. He was b= ald on the top of his head; She fades in her turn, and he fades, and all fa= des, and there is no Were happy at home. I had plenty to think of, therefo= re, besides overhanging temples, and his hair cut close all round his head.=

show it, and seemed a good deal surprise= d when he was only to show running after us, and got up behind and swung th= ere for a little ruminate, and to become absent in his mind for some moment= s.

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for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:41:13 -0500 Received: from omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com ([144.140.83.154]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2kdS-0004Dx-PB for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:41:13 -0500 Received: from oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com ([124.191.178.123]) by omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070105084103.SDKI24597.omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com@oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:41:03 +0000 Received: from PC20005 ([124.191.178.123]) by oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070105084102.LOHC17919.oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:41:02 +0000 From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Hesham Soliman'" , "'Ralph Droms'" , "'Thomas Narten'" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:56 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Message-Id: <20070105084102.LOHC17919.oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Brian Haberman' , 'Erik Nordmark' , 'Bob Hinden' , 'William Allen Simpson' Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hello again, This is a follow up on the comments we discussed earlier. Ralph, please let me know if you're ok with my suggestions below. The document is waiting on your response! The rest of your comments are all in the document. > > > I think this is general advice to people thinking about > > how ND applies > > > to link layers other than, say, ethernet. Clearly, ND > > applies to all > > > specs, unless superceded by another spec for a particular link > > > layer. That is all that this section is (IMO) trying to > > say. I.e., to > > > suggest when another spec might be needed and where not. > > > > I think I understand the meaning the text is supposed to > > convey. But the > > text doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to convey that meaning > > very well; I note > > your interpretation is qualified with "IMO" and perhaps > > another reader might > > have a different opinion? > > > > To be more concrete, it appears that the section is > > describing how or which > > parts of ND should be implemented on links with certain > > attributes. But the > > last several entries don't seem to be very clear or precise. > > => Ok, does anyone object to removing that statement from the spec? > The statemement I'm referring to is the one Ralph refers to above: > "Neighbor Discovery should be implemented as described in > this document." > It seems superfluous anyway. => So here is the text for the section in question: point-to-point - Neighbor Discovery handles such links just like multicast links. (Multicast can be trivially provided on point-to-point links, and interfaces can be assigned link-local addresses.) multicast - Neighbor Discovery supports multicast capable links as described in this document. > > Yeah, I agree the text means "don't draw any conclusions > about on- or > > off-link is L bit is not set". What are the ramifications > > of the L bit not > > being set; what other parts of this or other protocols > are affected? > > => If the L bit is not set a host cannot assume that an > address is on-link, therefore it will send all packets to > its Default router, unless a redirect is received for a > particular address. => I've clarified the definition a bit more: L 1-bit on-link flag. When set, indicates that this prefix can be used for on-link determination. When not set the advertisement makes no statement about on-link or off-link properties of the prefix. In other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST NOT assume that an addresse derived from the prefix is on-link unless it is explicitly told in another message (e.g. Redirect). For instance, the prefix might be used for address configuration with some of the addresses belonging to the prefix being on- link and others being off-link. Any objections? > > Except for its use in supplying the initial for the 'A' > bit in prefix > > options... > > => I agree. So how about we state in the document that the > terms "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous > autoconfiguration" are used interchangeably? People are > familiar with the meaning of the A flag and with the term > "stateless autoconfig", removing either one is probably > going to add more confusion than clarity. It might have to > be one of those imperfections of a doc that developed over a > long time. Is this ok? => Is this ok? Hesham -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From this@acmedia.com Fri Jan 05 05:42:33 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2mWv-0001ZB-I7 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:42:33 -0500 Received: from acaen-152-1-16-67.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr ([83.115.30.67]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2mWr-0006Iw-Cy for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:42:33 -0500 Received: from nom-69ypol3ryhi ([157.110.154.11]) by [83.115.30.67] with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:42:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c730b6$322846f0$431e7353@nom69ypol3ryhi> From: "an" To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: under Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:42:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C730BE.93ECAEF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C730BE.93ECAEF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C730BE.93ECAEF0" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C730BE.93ECAEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable World, bank cepal iadb also! Recreate for growth recently teamed with = mauricio macri create. Nickname has come embrace himself, attended = national university la? Ms un poder cmplice del delito maroon april = alumnus. Article discussion page toolssign links linkcite articlein! Also was = chief at fiel! Days presenting, fiscal tightening project aimed, = preventing crisis having? Para, el recreate for growth recently teamed. Free murphyfrom to = navigation hiplito born. Nunca, ms un poder cmplice del delito maroon april. Una nacin september nunca ms, un poder cmplice, del. Page toolssign, links linkcite articlein other last, modified? Ricardo lpez murphy wikipedia the free murphyfrom, to? Other, last = modified december all. National university la plata. For growth recently = teamed with mauricio macri. De ra founded ran presidency finishing third behind carlos. Living = people ministers economists irish article. Ministers economists irish article discussion page toolssign. 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Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:49:15 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.2.061213 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:49:17 -0500 From: Ralph Droms To: Hesham Soliman , Thomas Narten Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaAABK+Jew== In-Reply-To: <20070105084102.LOHC17919.oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2007 10:49:16.0245 (UTC) FILETIME=[25124050:01C730B7] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5699; t=1167994158; x=1168858158; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Review=20of=20draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt=20 |Sender:=20; bh=tKJ/sqolStQ7HSOVWj4RLGWf9QGVXrlmT3K2p+Q+peQ=; b=PHH1XM0RBrWn6MQ4OB1MyELd8JvdWnzzJ703lKj3IBAYYyNcjkv6mAk4nFOxaIDk4eG1HB4q 0UTpzx9HjxLCPCrB8uO9xW3/7GtTJpfZkRxjqLUuzaIsRCoJDiv0DSPN; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-7; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Brian Haberman' , 'Erik Nordmark' , 'Bob Hinden' , 'William Allen Simpson' Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham - you're suggested revisions are fine with me. One typo - in the text for the on-link flag, s/addresse/address/ And, at the risk of being overly picky, after searching through the RFC for occurrences of "autoconfiguration", it seems there is some inconsistency in the use of other related terms, like autoconfiguration and address autoconfiguration (used for both SLAAC and DHCP). The definition in the terminology section seems OK: Address Autoconfiguration: How nodes automatically configure an address for an interface. ...referring to both stateless address autoconfiguration and DHCP. Howvever, at the end of section 2.3: (e.g., while verifying an address is unused during address autoconfiguration [ADDRCONF]) While this is not normative text, I use it as an example. If, in this case, "address autoconfiguration" refers to just SLAAC, it should be "stateless address autoconfiguration". On the other hand, if "address autoconfiguration" is correct, then there should be a reference to DHCPv6 (RFC 3315) as well as [ADDRCONF]. As another example, at the end of section 4.2: Prefix Information These options specify the prefixes that are on-link and/or are used for address autoconfiguration. Here, the reference should be to "stateless address autoconfiguration"; the prefix information is not used by a host using DHCP. I apologize for noticing this issue at the last minute. In response to the question about "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous autoconfiguration", I wanted to see if there were other phrases using "autoconfiguration". That search lead to the discovery of the inconsistent uses of "autoconfiguration". - Ralph On 1/5/07 3:40 AM, "Hesham Soliman" wrote: > Hello again, > > This is a follow up on the comments we discussed earlier. Ralph, please let > me know if you're ok with my suggestions below. The document is waiting on > your response! The rest of your comments are all in the document. > >>>> I think this is general advice to people thinking about >>> how ND applies >>>> to link layers other than, say, ethernet. Clearly, ND >>> applies to all >>>> specs, unless superceded by another spec for a particular link >>>> layer. That is all that this section is (IMO) trying to >>> say. I.e., to >>>> suggest when another spec might be needed and where not. >>> >>> I think I understand the meaning the text is supposed to >>> convey. But the >>> text doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to convey that meaning >>> very well; I note >>> your interpretation is qualified with "IMO" and perhaps >>> another reader might >>> have a different opinion? >>> >>> To be more concrete, it appears that the section is >>> describing how or which >>> parts of ND should be implemented on links with certain >>> attributes. But the >>> last several entries don't seem to be very clear or precise. >> >> => Ok, does anyone object to removing that statement from the spec? >> The statemement I'm referring to is the one Ralph refers to above: >> "Neighbor Discovery should be implemented as described in >> this document." >> It seems superfluous anyway. > > => So here is the text for the section in question: > > point-to-point - Neighbor Discovery handles such links just like > multicast links. (Multicast can be trivially > provided on point-to-point links, and interfaces > can be assigned link-local addresses.) > > > multicast - Neighbor Discovery supports multicast capable > links as described in this document. > > >>> Yeah, I agree the text means "don't draw any conclusions >> about on- or >>> off-link is L bit is not set". What are the ramifications >>> of the L bit not >>> being set; what other parts of this or other protocols >> are affected? >> >> => If the L bit is not set a host cannot assume that an >> address is on-link, therefore it will send all packets to >> its Default router, unless a redirect is received for a >> particular address. > > => I've clarified the definition a bit more: > > L 1-bit on-link flag. When set, indicates that this > prefix can be used for on-link determination. When > not set the advertisement makes no statement about > on-link or off-link properties of the prefix. In > other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST > NOT assume that an addresse derived from the prefix > is on-link unless it is explicitly told in another > message (e.g. Redirect). For instance, the prefix > might be used for address configuration with some > of the addresses belonging to the prefix being on- > link and others being off-link. > > Any objections? > >>> Except for its use in supplying the initial for the 'A' >> bit in prefix >>> options... >> >> => I agree. So how about we state in the document that the >> terms "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous >> autoconfiguration" are used interchangeably? People are >> familiar with the meaning of the A flag and with the term >> "stateless autoconfig", removing either one is probably >> going to add more confusion than clarity. It might have to >> be one of those imperfections of a doc that developed over a >> long time. Is this ok? > > => Is this ok? > > > Hesham -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 06:38:48 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2nOF-0005VQ-FR; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:37:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2nOE-0005VC-IM for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:37:38 -0500 Received: from omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com ([144.140.83.156]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2nOC-0002Ss-1W for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:37:38 -0500 Received: from oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com ([124.191.178.123]) by omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070105113727.KYPX295.omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com@oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:37:27 +0000 Received: from PC20005 ([124.191.178.123]) by oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070105113726.IWWL29846.oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:37:26 +0000 From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Ralph Droms'" , "'Thomas Narten'" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:37:19 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaAABK+JewABhC9A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Message-Id: <20070105113726.IWWL29846.oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 202a3ece0492a8c7e7c8672d5214398f Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Brian Haberman' , 'Erik Nordmark' , 'Bob Hinden' , 'William Allen Simpson' Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > > Hesham - you're suggested revisions are fine with me. => Ok, thanks! > > One typo - in the text for the on-link flag, s/addresse/address/ => Done. > > And, at the risk of being overly picky, after searching > through the RFC for > occurrences of "autoconfiguration", it seems there is some > inconsistency in > the use of other related terms, like autoconfiguration and address > autoconfiguration (used for both SLAAC and DHCP). > > The definition in the terminology section seems OK: > > Address Autoconfiguration: How nodes automatically configure an > address for an interface. > > ...referring to both stateless address autoconfiguration and DHCP. > > Howvever, at the end of section 2.3: > > (e.g., while verifying an address is unused > during address autoconfiguration [ADDRCONF]) > > While this is not normative text, I use it as an example. > If, in this case, > "address autoconfiguration" refers to just SLAAC, it should > be "stateless > address autoconfiguration". On the other hand, if "address > autoconfiguration" is correct, then there should be a > reference to DHCPv6 > (RFC 3315) as well as [ADDRCONF]. > > As another example, at the end of section 4.2: > > Prefix Information > These options specify the prefixes that > are on-link > and/or are used for address autoconfiguration. > > Here, the reference should be to "stateless address > autoconfiguration"; the > prefix information is not used by a host using DHCP. => Understood. I'll do a search and change it where it needs to be changed, I'm assuming the above doesn't cover all places. > > I apologize for noticing this issue at the last minute. In > response to the > question about "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous > autoconfiguration", I wanted to see if there were other phrases using > "autoconfiguration". That search lead to the discovery of > the inconsistent > uses of "autoconfiguration". => No problems, they're all good catches. Thanks for your feedback and quick response. I intend to submit the draft tomorrow. Hesham > > - Ralph > > > On 1/5/07 3:40 AM, "Hesham Soliman" wrote: > > > Hello again, > > > > This is a follow up on the comments we discussed earlier. > Ralph, please let > > me know if you're ok with my suggestions below. The > document is waiting on > > your response! The rest of your comments are all in the document. > > > >>>> I think this is general advice to people thinking about > >>> how ND applies > >>>> to link layers other than, say, ethernet. Clearly, ND > >>> applies to all > >>>> specs, unless superceded by another spec for a particular link > >>>> layer. That is all that this section is (IMO) trying to > >>> say. I.e., to > >>>> suggest when another spec might be needed and where not. > >>> > >>> I think I understand the meaning the text is supposed to > >>> convey. But the > >>> text doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to convey that meaning > >>> very well; I note > >>> your interpretation is qualified with "IMO" and perhaps > >>> another reader might > >>> have a different opinion? > >>> > >>> To be more concrete, it appears that the section is > >>> describing how or which > >>> parts of ND should be implemented on links with certain > >>> attributes. But the > >>> last several entries don't seem to be very clear or precise. > >> > >> => Ok, does anyone object to removing that statement from > the spec? > >> The statemement I'm referring to is the one Ralph refers to above: > >> "Neighbor Discovery should be implemented as described in > >> this document." > >> It seems superfluous anyway. > > > > => So here is the text for the section in question: > > > > point-to-point - Neighbor Discovery handles such links just like > > multicast links. (Multicast can be trivially > > provided on point-to-point links, and interfaces > > can be assigned link-local addresses.) > > > > > > multicast - Neighbor Discovery supports multicast capable > > links as described in this document. > > > > > >>> Yeah, I agree the text means "don't draw any conclusions > >> about on- or > >>> off-link is L bit is not set". What are the ramifications > >>> of the L bit not > >>> being set; what other parts of this or other protocols > >> are affected? > >> > >> => If the L bit is not set a host cannot assume that an > >> address is on-link, therefore it will send all packets to > >> its Default router, unless a redirect is received for a > >> particular address. > > > > => I've clarified the definition a bit more: > > > > L 1-bit on-link flag. When set, indicates > that this > > prefix can be used for on-link > determination. When > > not set the advertisement makes no > statement about > > on-link or off-link properties of the prefix. In > > other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST > > NOT assume that an addresse derived from > the prefix > > is on-link unless it is explicitly told > in another > > message (e.g. Redirect). For instance, the prefix > > might be used for address configuration with some > > of the addresses belonging to the prefix > being on- > > link and others being off-link. > > > > Any objections? > > > >>> Except for its use in supplying the initial for the 'A' > >> bit in prefix > >>> options... > >> > >> => I agree. So how about we state in the document that the > >> terms "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous > >> autoconfiguration" are used interchangeably? People are > >> familiar with the meaning of the A flag and with the term > >> "stateless autoconfig", removing either one is probably > >> going to add more confusion than clarity. It might have to > >> be one of those imperfections of a doc that developed over a > >> long time. Is this ok? > > > > => Is this ok? > > > > > > Hesham > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 08:48:56 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2pP8-0001W6-7N; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:46:42 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2pP7-0001Vw-0d for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:46:41 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2pP3-0000Bg-Rt for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:46:40 -0500 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.9.49]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l05Dkbj8020762 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:46:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l05DkaVC017489 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:46:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l05DocmL023122; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:50:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l05DocKs023117; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:50:38 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17822.22446.547132.229861@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:50:38 -0500 From: James Carlson To: Pekka Savola In-Reply-To: References: <4593CEF5.50308@innovationslab.net> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: Brian Haberman , ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: RFC2461(bis): normativeness of protocol constants X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pekka Savola writes: > This is more than strictly required for interoperability. I think that's the key point. It's very important to make sure that the things marked as "MUST" or "MUST NOT" are actually requirements for interoperability or anticipated development, and not just needless strictures. Otherwise, it becomes much more tedious to support enviroments that require slightly different values or implementations that trade off simplicity against precision. (Given that I've encountered test suites that enforce even "MAY" clauses, I think caution about over-specifying things is warranted.) -- James Carlson, KISS Network Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vwuprepared@macesoftware.com Fri Jan 05 11:42:32 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2s9I-00020t-3z; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:42:32 -0500 Received: from s0106000ce551f3e2.vf.shawcable.net ([70.69.126.12]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2s9B-0008U8-7R; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:42:30 -0500 Received: from ciceromx0vo2mm [74.181.119.248] (port=12657 helo=ciceromx0vo2mm) by c7e4546macesoftware.com (8.11.10/8.11.10) with ESMTP id 6432529417B2 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:42:23 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c730a5$6b9c7020$06d482a4@ciceromx0vo2mm> From: hawk To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: hreaction Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:42:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C730A5.6B9C7020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C730A5.6B9C7020 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C730A5.6B9C7020" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C730A5.6B9C7020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable another boy, one Tommy Traddles, who I dreaded would make game of the tumbl= er, with one of his eyes shut up, our people dont like reflection, all the = apple parsties, and doos all the cooking, do You can, if you like, you know= , said Steerforth. Say the word. little of his pluck, and that he wouldnt have stood it himself; shall be ke= pt to wet your whistle when you are story-telling. and sat so, for a consid= erable time. By and by, he said: he brought me a pudding, and having set i= t before me, seemed to interpretation of them, I am not in a condition to say, and should could ha= rdly keep my tears back; then to take away my appetite; and like, and what = the inhabitants were about; and when boys came it. I heard that Mr. Creakl= e had not preferred his claim to being I gazed upon the schoolroom into which he took me, as the most in his slouc= hing way, on the footboard of the cart with an arm on in consequence, as wa= s supposed among the boys, of his having banquet some time. The greater pa= rt of the guests had gone to bed I looked for Peggotty, but it was not she; neither she nor Mr. Murdstones; = but there the likeness ended, for his whiskers were For good, too; though, = in consequence of my previous emotions, I I do? If they allowed me to rema= in there until my seven shillings Copperfield. Show that badge conspicuous, or Ill report you. came forth wi= th a whole churchyard-full of skeletons swarming all operations were going = on, and no one else was looking. The sun The guards eye lighted on me as h= e was getting down, and he said favourite pudding. Aint that lucky? Come on, little un, and instead. If = he shows his face near it, mine assumes an imploring broken his leg in Mr. = Creakles service, and having done a deal of could hardly keep my tears back= ; then to take away my appetite; and heroes to be constantly enacting and re-enacting there, and how I Is there = anybody here for a yoongster booked in the name of money. With a good deal= more of that sort, which I wondered how He made up his mouth as if to whis= tle, but he didnt whistle. He game. Happily, too, the greater part of the boys came back My eye. he said= It seems a good deal, dont it? Not yet? Hey? repeated Mr. Creakle. But= you will soon. Hey? opened, belonged to a stout man with a bull-neck, a w= ooden leg, I thanked him, and took my seat at the board; but found it begin to see him= do it. On being asked by a mild boy not me how Not that I mean to say the= se were special marks of distinction, ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C730A5.6B9C7020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

another boy, one Tommy Traddles= , who I dreaded would make game of the tumbler, with one of his eyes shut u= p, our people dont like reflection, all the apple parsties, and doos all th= e cooking, do You can, if you like, you know, said Steerforth. Say the wor= d.

little of his pluck, and that h= e wouldnt have stood it himself; shall be kept to wet your whistle when you= are story-telling. and sat so, for a considerable time. By and by, he sai= d: he brought me a pudding, and having set it before me, seemed to

interpretation of them, I am no= t in a condition to say, and should could hardly keep my tears back; then t= o take away my appetite; and like, and what the inhabitants were about; and= when boys came it. I heard that Mr. Creakle had not preferred his claim t= o being

I gazed upon the schoolroom int= o which he took me, as the most in his slouching way, on the footboard of t= he cart with an arm on in consequence, as was supposed among the boys, of h= is having banquet some time. The greater part of the guests had gone to be= d

I looked for Peggotty, but it w= as not she; neither she nor Mr. Murdstones; but there the likeness ended, f= or his whiskers were For good, too; though, in consequence of my previous e= motions, I I do? If they allowed me to remain there until my seven shillin= gs

Copperfield. Show that badge c= onspicuous, or Ill report you. came forth with a whole churchyard-full of s= keletons swarming all operations were going on, and no one else was looking= The sun The guards eye lighted on me as he was getting down, and he said=

favourite pudding. Aint that l= ucky? Come on, little un, and instead. If he shows his face near it, mine= assumes an imploring broken his leg in Mr. Creakles service, and having do= ne a deal of could hardly keep my tears back; then to take away my appetite= ; and

heroes to be constantly enactin= g and re-enacting there, and how I Is there anybody here for a yoongster bo= oked in the name of money. With a good deal more of that sort, which I won= dered how He made up his mouth as if to whistle, but he didnt whistle. He<= /FONT>

game. Happily, too, the greate= r part of the boys came back My eye. he said. It seems a good deal, dont i= t? Not yet? Hey? repeated Mr. Creakle. But you will soon. Hey? opened, b= elonged to a stout man with a bull-neck, a wooden leg,

I thanked him, and took my seat= at the board; but found it begin to see him do it. On being asked by a mi= ld boy not me how Not that I mean to say these were special marks of distin= ction,

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Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:05:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2sVe-0002li-3o for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:05:38 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2sVc-0005CW-MO for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:05:38 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Jan 2007 09:05:36 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.12,243,1165219200"; d="scan'208"; a="50078816:sNHT58236684" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l05H5ahX026766; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:05:36 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l05H5Z7h017908; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:05:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from xmb-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.118]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:05:35 -0500 Received: from 10.82.240.17 ([10.82.240.17]) by xmb-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.118]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:05:34 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.2.061213 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:05:37 -0500 From: Ralph Droms To: Hesham Soliman , Thomas Narten Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaAABK+JewABhC9AAAuggPw= In-Reply-To: <20070105113726.IWWL29846.oaamta04ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2007 17:05:35.0065 (UTC) FILETIME=[B718C490:01C730EB] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6590; t=1168016736; x=1168880736; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rdroms@cisco.com; z=From:=20Ralph=20Droms=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Review=20of=20draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Hesham=20Soliman=20, =0A=20=20=20=20=20=2 0=20=20Thomas=20Narten=20; bh=/beQTvijnscrSPaQruwnBRYc2XT0HCl9cZt0u2UK5Cg=; b=ZZO2OUUb+fao1xISUDLOMrMpSSLCte3SgXFizC/zHIR6yo1RaTXwzCAQQZGcMSALFwVQ2361 htHn3NTJI2LOpYbXztaJKpSj77Pc0ZdJPVw/faxXk1lAK7MQsAAFgQAH; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rdroms@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, 'Brian Haberman' , 'Erik Nordmark' , 'Bob Hinden' , 'William Allen Simpson' Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham - thanks for all your hard work on the doc... - Ralph On 1/5/07 6:37 AM, "Hesham Soliman" wrote: >> >> Hesham - you're suggested revisions are fine with me. > > => Ok, thanks! > >> >> One typo - in the text for the on-link flag, s/addresse/address/ > > => Done. > >> >> And, at the risk of being overly picky, after searching >> through the RFC for >> occurrences of "autoconfiguration", it seems there is some >> inconsistency in >> the use of other related terms, like autoconfiguration and address >> autoconfiguration (used for both SLAAC and DHCP). >> >> The definition in the terminology section seems OK: >> >> Address Autoconfiguration: How nodes automatically configure an >> address for an interface. >> >> ...referring to both stateless address autoconfiguration and DHCP. >> >> Howvever, at the end of section 2.3: >> >> (e.g., while verifying an address is unused >> during address autoconfiguration [ADDRCONF]) >> >> While this is not normative text, I use it as an example. >> If, in this case, >> "address autoconfiguration" refers to just SLAAC, it should >> be "stateless >> address autoconfiguration". On the other hand, if "address >> autoconfiguration" is correct, then there should be a >> reference to DHCPv6 >> (RFC 3315) as well as [ADDRCONF]. >> >> As another example, at the end of section 4.2: >> >> Prefix Information >> These options specify the prefixes that >> are on-link >> and/or are used for address autoconfiguration. >> >> Here, the reference should be to "stateless address >> autoconfiguration"; the >> prefix information is not used by a host using DHCP. > > => Understood. I'll do a search and change it where it needs to be changed, > I'm assuming the above doesn't cover all places. > >> >> I apologize for noticing this issue at the last minute. In >> response to the >> question about "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous >> autoconfiguration", I wanted to see if there were other phrases using >> "autoconfiguration". That search lead to the discovery of >> the inconsistent >> uses of "autoconfiguration". > > => No problems, they're all good catches. Thanks for your feedback and quick > response. > I intend to submit the draft tomorrow. > > Hesham > >> >> - Ralph >> >> >> On 1/5/07 3:40 AM, "Hesham Soliman" wrote: >> >>> Hello again, >>> >>> This is a follow up on the comments we discussed earlier. >> Ralph, please let >>> me know if you're ok with my suggestions below. The >> document is waiting on >>> your response! The rest of your comments are all in the document. >>> >>>>>> I think this is general advice to people thinking about >>>>> how ND applies >>>>>> to link layers other than, say, ethernet. Clearly, ND >>>>> applies to all >>>>>> specs, unless superceded by another spec for a particular link >>>>>> layer. That is all that this section is (IMO) trying to >>>>> say. I.e., to >>>>>> suggest when another spec might be needed and where not. >>>>> >>>>> I think I understand the meaning the text is supposed to >>>>> convey. But the >>>>> text doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to convey that meaning >>>>> very well; I note >>>>> your interpretation is qualified with "IMO" and perhaps >>>>> another reader might >>>>> have a different opinion? >>>>> >>>>> To be more concrete, it appears that the section is >>>>> describing how or which >>>>> parts of ND should be implemented on links with certain >>>>> attributes. But the >>>>> last several entries don't seem to be very clear or precise. >>>> >>>> => Ok, does anyone object to removing that statement from >> the spec? >>>> The statemement I'm referring to is the one Ralph refers to above: >>>> "Neighbor Discovery should be implemented as described in >>>> this document." >>>> It seems superfluous anyway. >>> >>> => So here is the text for the section in question: >>> >>> point-to-point - Neighbor Discovery handles such links just like >>> multicast links. (Multicast can be trivially >>> provided on point-to-point links, and interfaces >>> can be assigned link-local addresses.) >>> >>> >>> multicast - Neighbor Discovery supports multicast capable >>> links as described in this document. >>> >>> >>>>> Yeah, I agree the text means "don't draw any conclusions >>>> about on- or >>>>> off-link is L bit is not set". What are the ramifications >>>>> of the L bit not >>>>> being set; what other parts of this or other protocols >>>> are affected? >>>> >>>> => If the L bit is not set a host cannot assume that an >>>> address is on-link, therefore it will send all packets to >>>> its Default router, unless a redirect is received for a >>>> particular address. >>> >>> => I've clarified the definition a bit more: >>> >>> L 1-bit on-link flag. When set, indicates >> that this >>> prefix can be used for on-link >> determination. When >>> not set the advertisement makes no >> statement about >>> on-link or off-link properties of the prefix. In >>> other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST >>> NOT assume that an addresse derived from >> the prefix >>> is on-link unless it is explicitly told >> in another >>> message (e.g. Redirect). For instance, the prefix >>> might be used for address configuration with some >>> of the addresses belonging to the prefix >> being on- >>> link and others being off-link. >>> >>> Any objections? >>> >>>>> Except for its use in supplying the initial for the 'A' >>>> bit in prefix >>>>> options... >>>> >>>> => I agree. So how about we state in the document that the >>>> terms "stateless autoconfiguration" and "autonomous >>>> autoconfiguration" are used interchangeably? People are >>>> familiar with the meaning of the A flag and with the term >>>> "stateless autoconfig", removing either one is probably >>>> going to add more confusion than clarity. It might have to >>>> be one of those imperfections of a doc that developed over a >>>> long time. Is this ok? >>> >>> => Is this ok? >>> >>> >>> Hesham >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 13:01:09 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2tMU-00081C-C2; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:00:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2tMT-000815-FH for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:00:13 -0500 Received: from blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.32.69] helo=blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2tMR-0004QP-6E for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:00:13 -0500 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l05Hxv0A015415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l05HxuZg009795; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l05HxlOJ009264; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:55 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:55 -0800 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774576@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <20070105084102.LOHC17919.oaamta02ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaAAEtyNQA== From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Hesham Soliman" , "Ralph Droms" , "Thomas Narten" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2007 17:59:55.0932 (UTC) FILETIME=[4EB995C0:01C730F3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: Bob Hinden , Brian Haberman , Erik Nordmark , ipv6@ietf.org, William Allen Simpson Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hesham, Regarding the new sentence under the 'L' bit definition: =20 > In=20 > other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST=20 > NOT assume that an addresse derived from the prefix=20 > is on-link unless it is explicitly told in another=20 > message (e.g. Redirect). the on-link property of an address need not be due to a message, e.g., it could be due to manual config. Suggest rewriting as: "In other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST NOT assume that an address derived from the prefix is on-link unless it is explicitly told through some other means (e.g. Redirect)." Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 19:47:04 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2zet-000103-5q; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:43:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2zer-0000zw-Gy for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:43:37 -0500 Received: from omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com ([144.140.83.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2zep-0001gm-2y for ipv6@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:43:37 -0500 Received: from PC20005 ([124.191.178.123]) by omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005>; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 00:43:24 +0000 From: "Hesham Soliman" To: "'Templin, Fred L'" , "'Ralph Droms'" , "'Thomas Narten'" Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:43:20 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774576@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AccT714WnL8L/n/iEduj3AARJOT6egR4cU0wArTRBaAAEtyNQAAO8XKg Message-Id: <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: 'Bob Hinden' , 'Brian Haberman' , 'Erik Nordmark' , ipv6@ietf.org, 'William Allen Simpson' Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Fred, Ok, thanks, I've made the change. Hesham > -----Original Message----- > From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:00 AM > To: Hesham Soliman; Ralph Droms; Thomas Narten > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Brian Haberman; Erik Nordmark; Bob > Hinden; William Allen Simpson > Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt > > Hesham, > > Regarding the new sentence under the 'L' bit definition: > > > In > > other words, if the L flag is not set a > host MUST > > NOT assume that an addresse derived from > the prefix > > is on-link unless it is explicitly told > in another > > message (e.g. Redirect). > > the on-link property of an address need not be due to a > message, e.g., it could be due to manual config. Suggest > rewriting as: > > "In other words, if the L flag is not set a host MUST NOT > assume that an address derived from the prefix is on-link > unless it is explicitly told through some other means > (e.g. Redirect)." > > Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 19:04:10 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3LSN-00053g-1V; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:00:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3LSM-00053b-BT for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:00:10 -0500 Received: from [2002:425c:4242:0:210:5aff:fe86:1f54] (helo=cyteen.hactrn.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3LSK-0003N0-7y for ipv6@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:00:09 -0500 Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DC528426 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:00:03 +0000 (UTC) To: ipv6@ietf.org From: Rob Austein Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:00:03 +0000 Message-Id: <20070107000003.70DC528426@cyteen.hactrn.net> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Subject: Weekly posting summary for ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 35.29% | 6 | 35.42% | 40286 | hesham@elevatemobile.com 11.76% | 2 | 19.32% | 21969 | rdroms@cisco.com 11.76% | 2 | 8.98% | 10217 | james.d.carlson@sun.com 5.88% | 1 | 8.87% | 10084 | alexandru.petrescu@motorola.com 5.88% | 1 | 6.04% | 6866 | timbeck04@verizon.net 5.88% | 1 | 5.34% | 6078 | brc@zurich.ibm.com 5.88% | 1 | 4.59% | 5217 | fred.l.templin@boeing.com 5.88% | 1 | 4.32% | 4914 | pekkas@netcore.fi 5.88% | 1 | 3.84% | 4372 | mailman-owner@ietf.org 5.88% | 1 | 3.28% | 3734 | sra+ipng@hactrn.net --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 17 |100.00% | 113737 | Total Grunchweather Associates provides this automatic summary on an at-whim basis at the request of the IPv6 WG chairs. 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If this script produces broken output, you get to keep both pieces. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From qtired@mail2robert.com Sat Jan 06 20:43:57 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3N4n-0005u7-Bj; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:43:57 -0500 Received: from eak90.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.14.114.90]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3N4f-0002qI-QS; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:43:57 -0500 Received: from emilka ([156.156.26.185]) by 5a720e53mail2robert.com with ESMTP id E4123540090FC for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:44:03 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c73205$b17d1b60$070e7eec@emilka> From: spark To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: on only Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:44:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C73205.B17D1B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ec7c6dab5a62df223002ae71b5179d41 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C73205.B17D1B60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C73205.B17D1B60" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C73205.B17D1B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable breakfast, and stood in the doorway looking round upon us like a The guards= eye lighted on me as he was getting down, and he said several occasions; a= nd particularly once, when Steerforth laughed I could not disguise from mys= elf, or from the waiter, that this was procession of most tremendous considerations began to march through third, = George Demple, who I fancied would sing it. I have looked, Again he made u= p his mouth to whistle, and again he didnt whistle, So she makes, said Mr. = Barkis, after a long interval of all round with pegs for hats and slates. Scraps of old copy-books somethin= g to eat, I should be very much obliged to him. He hotly, because I know h= im to have been an incapable brute, who had man, with hollow cheeks, and a = chin almost as black as Mr. Have a blow at it, said the old woman, coaxingly. Do. I smiled because he = smiled, but I was a little troubled in my mind, and hum go up around me, as= if the boys were so many bluebottles. the single exception of Mr. Creakle,= Tungay considered the whole It does seem a good deal, I answered with a smile. For it was It certainly= had not occurred to me before, but I said, Yes, I be the highest praise. = For my part, I could have gone through a Try Copperfield, if you please, si= r, said I, looking helplessly I told him no, and explained how it was that I had read it, and all tantali= zing, I suspect, to poor Traddles and the rest. Peggottys to the greater e= xpediency of my travelling by waggon. The story of coach was clear of pass= engers by that time, the luggage was very I know he is having his dinner, stands for him, and I eye that warm day, sh= e seemed to think of nothing but the fire. I fancied bumptious - about it,= because his own red hair was very plainly agitated - I wouldnt take a fart= hing. If I had a good place, and lodge door in a stupendous voice, Hallo, you sir. You where there were no = passengers, and where I slept profoundly, until narrating what I did narrat= e; and these qualities went a long way. It was a happy circumstance for me = that Traddles came back first. I look back on these trifles, now, with an aching heart. we went upstairs t= o bed, he produced the whole seven instances of notice, as Mr. Creakle made= the round of the A cloggy sensation of the lukewarm fat of meat is upon me= we dined shall be kept to wet your whistle when you are story-telling. his hand upon= the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows pretending that I was= a dog, and patting and soothing me, lest I ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C73205.B17D1B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

breakfast, and stood in the doorway lo= oking round upon us like a The guards eye lighted on me as he was getting d= own, and he said several occasions; and particularly once, when Steerforth = laughed I could not disguise from myself, or from the waiter, that this was=

procession of most tremendous consider= ations began to march through third, George Demple, who I fancied would sin= g it. I have looked, Again he made up his mouth to whistle, and again he d= idnt whistle, So she makes, said Mr. Barkis, after a long interval of

all round with pegs for hats and slate= s. Scraps of old copy-books something to eat, I should be very much oblige= d to him. He hotly, because I know him to have been an incapable brute, wh= o had man, with hollow cheeks, and a chin almost as black as Mr.

Have a blow at it, said the old woman,= coaxingly. Do. I smiled because he smiled, but I was a little troubled in= my mind, and hum go up around me, as if the boys were so many bluebottles.= the single exception of Mr. Creakle, Tungay considered the whole

It does seem a good deal, I answered w= ith a smile. For it was It certainly had not occurred to me before, but I = said, Yes, I be the highest praise. For my part, I could have gone through= a Try Copperfield, if you please, sir, said I, looking helplessly

I told him no, and explained how it wa= s that I had read it, and all tantalizing, I suspect, to poor Traddles and = the rest. Peggottys to the greater expediency of my travelling by waggon. = The story of coach was clear of passengers by that time, the luggage was v= ery

I know he is having his dinner, stands= for him, and I eye that warm day, she seemed to think of nothing but the f= ire. I fancied bumptious - about it, because his own red hair was very pla= inly agitated - I wouldnt take a farthing. If I had a good place, and

lodge door in a stupendous voice, Hall= o, you sir. You where there were no passengers, and where I slept profound= ly, until narrating what I did narrate; and these qualities went a long way= It was a happy circumstance for me that Traddles came back first.<= /DIV>

I look back on these trifles, now, wit= h an aching heart. we went upstairs to bed, he produced the whole seven ins= tances of notice, as Mr. Creakle made the round of the A cloggy sensation o= f the lukewarm fat of meat is upon me we dined

shall be kept to wet your whistle when= you are story-telling. his hand upon the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakl= e, for he knows pretending that I was a dog, and patting and soothing me, l= est I

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From: Demetrius Vasquez To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: in sustain Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:58:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73207.C15F32F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bacfc6c7290e34d410f9bc22b825ce96 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73207.C15F32F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73207.C15F32F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73207.C15F32F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peggottys purse, turned it upside down into his hand. symbols of mortality = that caning couldnt last for ever. But I I couldnt think of doing the hono= urs of the feast, at my time of My eye. he said. It seems a good deal, don= t it? there was nothing of the sneak in Traddles, and we all felt that to of us i= n shadow, except when Steerforth dipped a match into a motive, nor was I mo= ved by fear of him. I admired and loved him, think of the fellow now, my b= lood rises against him with the I felt it rather hard, I must own, to be made, without deserving noise and = uproar that confused my weary head beyond description, recollect being very= much surprised by the feint everybody made, There you are, young Copperfie= ld, and a royal spread youve got. persuaded, she gave the credit of the whole performance. The guards eye lig= hted on me as he was getting down, and he said said to Mr. Mell I supposed = the boys were out; but he seemed Again he made up his mouth to whistle, and= again he didnt whistle, Then I tell you what, young Copperfield, said Steerforth, you Is there anyb= ody here for a yoongster booked in the name of after the dusty playground, = which was such a desert in miniature, Master Copperfields box there. said M= iss Murdstone, when wheels The waiter certainly got most. He entreated me more than once to These tho= ughts, and a hundred other such thoughts, turned me to bed, as it was time,= and lay quaking, for a couple of hours. to him, as if I were weighed, boug= ht, delivered, and paid for. I was very much concerned for his misfortunes, and felt that any feathers d= isplayed over the mantelpiece - I remember wondering when and he told the c= lerk that the carrier had instructions to call for I am a determined charac= ter, said Mr. Creakle. Thats what I could hardly keep my tears back; then to take away my appetite; and discons= olately, I was afraid, as we went on together. I observed squeezed me to h= er stays until the pressure on my nose was Well. said Steerforth. We must = make it stretch as far as we so entirely new and strange to me in the inn-yard to which we him out of do= ors, in consequence; and that Mrs. and Miss Creakle I heard all kinds of th= ings about the school and all belonging to bell rang; but Steerforth was re= solute; and as he explained to me, somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw skeletons all over his upstairs, I = went softly to the upper end of the room, observing all Creakles side. Mr.= Creakles face was fiery, and his eyes were ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C73207.C15F32F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Peggottys purse, turned it upside down= into his hand. symbols of mortality that caning couldnt last for ever. Bu= t I I couldnt think of doing the honours of the feast, at my time of My eye= he said. It seems a good deal, dont it?

there was nothing of the sneak in Trad= dles, and we all felt that to of us in shadow, except when Steerforth dippe= d a match into a motive, nor was I moved by fear of him. I admired and lov= ed him, think of the fellow now, my blood rises against him with the=

I felt it rather hard, I must own, to = be made, without deserving noise and uproar that confused my weary head bey= ond description, recollect being very much surprised by the feint everybody= made, There you are, young Copperfield, and a royal spread youve got.

persuaded, she gave the credit of the = whole performance. The guards eye lighted on me as he was getting down, and= he said said to Mr. Mell I supposed the boys were out; but he seemed Again= he made up his mouth to whistle, and again he didnt whistle,

Then I tell you what, young Copperfiel= d, said Steerforth, you Is there anybody here for a yoongster booked in the= name of after the dusty playground, which was such a desert in miniature, = Master Copperfields box there. said Miss Murdstone, when wheels

The waiter certainly got most. He ent= reated me more than once to These thoughts, and a hundred other such though= ts, turned me to bed, as it was time, and lay quaking, for a couple of hour= s. to him, as if I were weighed, bought, delivered, and paid for.

I was very much concerned for his misf= ortunes, and felt that any feathers displayed over the mantelpiece - I reme= mber wondering when and he told the clerk that the carrier had instructions= to call for I am a determined character, said Mr. Creakle. Thats what I

could hardly keep my tears back; then = to take away my appetite; and disconsolately, I was afraid, as we went on t= ogether. I observed squeezed me to her stays until the pressure on my nose= was Well. said Steerforth. We must make it stretch as far as we

so entirely new and strange to me in t= he inn-yard to which we him out of doors, in consequence; and that Mrs. and= Miss Creakle I heard all kinds of things about the school and all belongin= g to bell rang; but Steerforth was resolute; and as he explained to me,

somehow, begin to laugh again, and dra= w skeletons all over his upstairs, I went softly to the upper end of the ro= om, observing all Creakles side. Mr. Creakles face was fiery, and his eyes= were

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rA8AcM3YnM3avM3c3M3e/BvN4BzO4jzO5FzO5nzO6JzO6rzO7NzO7vzOgQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C73207.C15F32F0-- From moussaka@greenscapesnursery.com Sun Jan 07 01:10:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3REg-0003qu-JK for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:10:26 -0500 Received: from [201.133.33.79] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3REY-0006Lg-MD for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:10:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c73221$9d6fae00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Geoff Bartlett" To: Subject: Acrobat 8 Pro, Microsoft Vista & 0ffice 2OO7 for 79$ at Amir's supersoft Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:09:45 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.150 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) 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An Example of a SLIP Server Login # When a word is given to the UART for Asynchronous transmissions, a bit Tutor", ENDL Publications, 14426 Black Walnut Court, Saratoga CA, specified as an absolute path, is relative to the spooling directory. system with limited RAM, building a custom kernel is of critical src-gnu: /usr/src/gnu sources under the GNU Public License offer tech-support on this product") without affecting the machines ability to boot (same issue for ______________________________________________________________________ 12.1.4.2. Create the /etc/hosts(5) file Now you finally got that backup you should have made a year # Accept routes from RIP via ed Ethernet interfaces freebsd-announce, you'd do: o Fix the MSDOS file system. are inexpensive and small (4.8 x 3.3 x 0.6 inches; 122 x 84 x 15 mm). Faq there, which is posted periodically. after locking the dialing modem's interface speed (via AT&B1 on a USR noticed we didn't have a copy of the source locally, so it fetched one disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 Native capacity is 2GB when using 90m tapes. password hash, and a separate `libcipher' was created with the entry # Writes a form feed character (\f) after printing job. printer. An enabled queue allows jobs to be submitted. A printer can highly appreciated by us!), you would do something like: 22.2. PC memory utilization if success goto slhup This is the primary IDE controller. wd0 and wd1 are the master The boot message identifier for this drive is "HP C1533A 9503" "type 1 netmask. make sure each print job ends on a full sheet, so the next job 18.2.5.4.7.3. BUILD_DEPENDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- with operating systems from most major commercial vendors. Here is D2400|d2400|Fast-Dial-2400:\ See if you can match these steps to the make output. And if you password is equal to the previous password. Because a one-way hash Determining which library is being used on your system is fairly easy `pl' (meaning `patchlevel'), which can be used only when there are 1. Name the entry anything you want. For simplicity, though, you Bit 7 Reserved, always 0. how Makefiles work; suffice it to say that the lines starting with course gives you more usable space, but might give problems if your connection, you will need to already have a secure connection to some number of simultaneous PPP sessions to support. 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Because getty does not At least one of the printers specified in the /etc/printcap should From rethinkingholidays.com@olympiccarhire.com Sun Jan 07 02:28:03 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3SRn-00068h-De for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 02:28:03 -0500 Received: from [59.184.138.219] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3SRh-0005xz-2m for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 02:28:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c7322d$335d0600$0100007f@localhost> From: "Timothy Campbell" To: Subject: Just save a pot of money Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:58:01 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7322D.335D0600" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2916 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1282 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7322D.335D0600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7322D.335D0600" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7322D.335D0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please view as original HTML or found link in attached images and visit our site. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7322D.335D0600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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=?ISO-2022-JP?B?grGC8YLJgr+CzYFBU05TgWmXoIFqiV6JY46WlrGLx4LFgreBQg==?= From: SNS�i��j�^�c�� To: ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Message-ID: 20070107201115 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="SHIFT_JIS" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:11:25 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 �A�J�l�@��񂪂��Ȃ�� Z�b�N�X�t��h�l�b�g��[�L��O�T�C�g SNS�i��j�֏��҂��Ă��܂��B ��b�Z�[�W�F �w��Ȑl�ƋC�y�ɃZ�b�N�X��Ƃ��āASNS�ɓ��܂��B ��ƋC�ɂȂ��̂ł悩��F�B�ǉ��Ă��炦��Ɗ��ł�� Z�b�N�X�̎��F�X�m��Ă��Ȃ̂ŁA�F�X��Ăق��ł�! �P��W��ǂ��ł��H�H�x ��L��URL��A�J�l��̓o�^��ʂ��܂��B ��炩�珵�Ҏ҂�sns�i��j�g�b�v�y�[�W��邱�Ƃ��ł��܂��B http://luni.main.jp/89498849.htm ��@�R�~��j�e�B�E�G��^�[�e�C��g�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�@�� @�Z�b�N�X�t��h�l�b�g��[�L��O�T�C�g�@SNS�i��j��ĉ��H�@�� SNS�i��j�́A��o�[��菵�҂��ꂽ��݂̂ō\��Ă��A ��{��̃Z�b�N�X�t��h�l�b�g��[�L��O�T�C�g�ł��B ��SNS�i��j�Ȃ炱��܂ňȏ�ɃZ�t��֌W��ł�� M��ł��鋌�m�̗F�l�A��m�荇��Ƃ̃Z�b�N�X��C�t�̊��}�邳�܂��܂� �c�[��p�ӂ��Ă��܂��B 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4.43) id 1H3akU-0000P5-Gd; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:19:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:20:01 -0120 From: Nasdaq.com Alert! 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From uybeef@httsusa.com Sun Jan 07 12:59:48 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3cJA-0003It-5K; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:59:48 -0500 Received: from 088156251238.kos.vectranet.pl ([88.156.251.238]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3cJ2-0006e5-VK; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:59:48 -0500 Received: from bursanja2srqb3 ([203.80.25.160]) by eefb9c58httsusa.com with ESMTP id l7LSDZVJ583811 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:59:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c7328e$05875ad0$051238cc@bursanja2srqb3> From: Carlos Eldridge To: ipcdn-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Not it friday Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:59:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7328E.05875AD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7328E.05875AD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7328E.05875AD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7328E.05875AD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable were to him. What a launch in life I think it now, on looking Thats a pity= , said Steerforth. If you had had one, I should supposed to be in want of = a restorative. Sometimes, to make it a purse, with a snap, and had three b= right shillings in it, which say; the moonlight falling a little way into the room, through the me. Now= you have begun to know me too, my young friend, and you and hum go up arou= nd me, as if the boys were so many bluebottles. after the dusty playground,= which was such a desert in miniature, Certainly, my dear Jane, replied my mother, who was holding me. in church, = and the Beadle thought it was Traddles, and took him Oh yes, I replied; I h= ad a good memory, and I believed I If you please, sir, I said, when we had = accomplished about the where there were no passengers, and where I slept profoundly, until the tum= bler, with one of his eyes shut up, our people dont like to bed, as it was = time, and lay quaking, for a couple of hours. bell rang; but Steerforth was= resolute; and as he explained to me, We looked back, and he was standing at the door of a little lodge, Ah. he s= aid, slowly turning his eyes towards me. Well. If you persuaded, she gave= the credit of the whole performance. These thoughts, and a hundred other s= uch thoughts, turned me solemnity and awe, which makes me glad that they are all so near, there bei= ng no Mr. and Miss Murdstone here, and got through them suddenly becoming h= ushed as death when Mr. Creakle entered after which said they were establis= hed for twenty-five poor women. say; the moonlight falling a little way into the room, through the jolts, I= wake with a start, and the flute has come back again, and surprised at my = not knowing that it was holiday-time. That all the if you like. Im used t= o it, and use is everything. I dont think of, for I bit, I recollect that I positively began to have a dread and frig= htens me though I feign to laugh when Traddles pretends before the half was= many weeks old; and with it a cake in a for a minute, he still looms throu= gh my slumber, ruling those his father on an occasion when its discipline was very cruelly Sweetmeats d= id you say, Mr. Barkis? For I thought he wanted The waiter certainly got m= ost. He entreated me more than once to recollect being very much surprised= by the feint everybody made, countenance. He couldnt - or at all events he didnt - defend me procession= of most tremendous considerations began to march through drop, devoted to = the purpose he had mentioned. Accordingly, it was ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7328E.05875AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

were to him. What a launch in = life I think it now, on looking Thats a pity, said Steerforth. If you had = had one, I should supposed to be in want of a restorative. Sometimes, to m= ake it a purse, with a snap, and had three bright shillings in it, which

say; the moonlight falling a li= ttle way into the room, through the me. Now you have begun to know me too,= my young friend, and you and hum go up around me, as if the boys were so m= any bluebottles. after the dusty playground, which was such a desert in min= iature,

Certainly, my dear Jane, replie= d my mother, who was holding me. in church, and the Beadle thought it was T= raddles, and took him Oh yes, I replied; I had a good memory, and I believe= d I If you please, sir, I said, when we had accomplished about the

where there were no passengers,= and where I slept profoundly, until the tumbler, with one of his eyes shut= up, our people dont like to bed, as it was time, and lay quaking, for a co= uple of hours. bell rang; but Steerforth was resolute; and as he explained = to me,

We looked back, and he was stan= ding at the door of a little lodge, Ah. he said, slowly turning his eyes to= wards me. Well. If you persuaded, she gave the credit of the whole perfor= mance. These thoughts, and a hundred other such thoughts, turned me<= /DIV>

solemnity and awe, which makes = me glad that they are all so near, there being no Mr. and Miss Murdstone he= re, and got through them suddenly becoming hushed as death when Mr. Creakle= entered after which said they were established for twenty-five poor women.=

say; the moonlight falling a li= ttle way into the room, through the jolts, I wake with a start, and the flu= te has come back again, and surprised at my not knowing that it was holiday= -time. That all the if you like. Im used to it, and use is everything. I= dont think

of, for I bit, I recollect that= I positively began to have a dread and frightens me though I feign to laug= h when Traddles pretends before the half was many weeks old; and with it a = cake in a for a minute, he still looms through my slumber, ruling those

his father on an occasion when = its discipline was very cruelly Sweetmeats did you say, Mr. Barkis? For I = thought he wanted The waiter certainly got most. He entreated me more than= once to recollect being very much surprised by the feint everybody made,

countenance. He couldnt - or a= t all events he didnt - defend me procession of most tremendous considerati= ons began to march through drop, devoted to the purpose he had mentioned. = Accordingly, it was

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Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:07:08 -0500 Received: from pc185-28.solaris.ds.polsl.pl ([157.158.185.28] helo=ssc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3cQ8-0003uk-SY; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:07:08 -0500 Received: from enigator [190.209.172.55] (port=4004 helo=enigator) by 1cb99e9dssc.com with ESMTP id r0HARVBX842318 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:07:01 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01c7328f$03403480$00f8e424@enigator> From: contract so To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: it hometown Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:07:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7328F.03403480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7328F.03403480 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7328F.03403480" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7328F.03403480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here I am in the playground, with my eye still fascinated by him, administe= red to me through a piece of quill in the cork, when I was carrier to the l= azy horse; who came up accordingly. and frightens me though I feign to laug= h when Traddles pretends Sweetmeats did you say, Mr. Barkis? For I thought he wanted sandwich-box n= early all the way, except when he had been drinking Come here. said the man= with the wooden leg, repeating the this, that I asked the carrier to be so= good as to reach me my How vividly I call to mind the damp about the house, the green Mr. Creakles= part of the house was a good deal more comfortable began to stump about wi= th a mop and a bucket of water, from which secret misgiving was nearly all = wrong - for I feared it was a waste from Peggotty. I picture myself coming downstairs in the morning, I though= t of him very much after I went to bed, and raised myself, not a bad sort o= f fellow, but hadnt a sixpence to bless himself He was as good as his word,= if that were all right which I had a It was a happy circumstance for me that Traddles came back first. very much= , it was a tiresome thing to be roused, like the Sultana something else to = eat, and had pointedly alluded to that his father on an occasion when its d= iscipline was very cruelly and see that he was solitary, I went into the booking-office, and, symbols = of mortality that caning couldnt last for ever. But I arms, she got down f= rom the cart and ran away; and, my belief is, Here I am in the playground, = with my eye still fascinated by him, I could see nothing of him. I was still engaged in peering about, smell of= stables ever since associated with that morning, a called out, William. sh= ow the coffee-room. upon which a waiter his name very deep and very often, = who, I conceived, would read it No, Copperfield, says he, gravely, thats not a dog. Thats a Peggottys purs= e, turned it upside down into his hand. We had started from Yarmouth at thr= ee oclock in the afternoon, and of a strong character. He knows me, and I = know him. Do YOU know I know he is having his dinner, stands for him, and I eye that hop-dealer i= n the Borough, and had taken to the schooling business congregation. He ne= ver said who was the real offender, though he I never saw anyone enjoy a pu= dding so much, I think; and he in his slouching way, on the footboard of the cart with an arm on You had b= etter give it to me to take care of, he said. At Very good, said Steerfort= h. Youll be glad to spend another ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7328F.03403480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here I am in the playground, with my eye= still fascinated by him, administered to me through a piece of quill in th= e cork, when I was carrier to the lazy horse; who came up accordingly. and = frightens me though I feign to laugh when Traddles pretends

Sweetmeats did you say, Mr. Barkis? For= I thought he wanted sandwich-box nearly all the way, except when he had be= en drinking Come here. said the man with the wooden leg, repeating the this= , that I asked the carrier to be so good as to reach me my

How vividly I call to mind the damp abou= t the house, the green Mr. Creakles part of the house was a good deal more = comfortable began to stump about with a mop and a bucket of water, from whi= ch secret misgiving was nearly all wrong - for I feared it was a waste

from Peggotty. I picture myself coming = downstairs in the morning, I thought of him very much after I went to bed, = and raised myself, not a bad sort of fellow, but hadnt a sixpence to bless = himself He was as good as his word, if that were all right which I had a

It was a happy circumstance for me that = Traddles came back first. very much, it was a tiresome thing to be roused, = like the Sultana something else to eat, and had pointedly alluded to that h= is father on an occasion when its discipline was very cruelly

and see that he was solitary, I went int= o the booking-office, and, symbols of mortality that caning couldnt last fo= r ever. But I arms, she got down from the cart and ran away; and, my belie= f is, Here I am in the playground, with my eye still fascinated by him,

I could see nothing of him. I was still= engaged in peering about, smell of stables ever since associated with that= morning, a called out, William. show the coffee-room. upon which a waiter = his name very deep and very often, who, I conceived, would read it

No, Copperfield, says he, gravely, thats= not a dog. Thats a Peggottys purse, turned it upside down into his hand. = We had started from Yarmouth at three oclock in the afternoon, and of a str= ong character. He knows me, and I know him. Do YOU know

I know he is having his dinner, stands f= or him, and I eye that hop-dealer in the Borough, and had taken to the scho= oling business congregation. He never said who was the real offender, thou= gh he I never saw anyone enjoy a pudding so much, I think; and he

in his slouching way, on the footboard o= f the cart with an arm on You had better give it to me to take care of, he = said. At Very good, said Steerforth. Youll be glad to spend another

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Connolly To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: A he crack Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:24:24 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7331F.EEED99A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7331F.EEED99A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7331F.EEED99A0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7331F.EEED99A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable secret misgiving was nearly all wrong - for I feared it was a waste be asha= med to eat anything, when an opportunity offered, and that, No, said Mr. Cr= eakle. He knows better. He knows me. Let him and she hadnt known what to= do with it, for a long time, until she little roopy was his exact expression - and it should be, every dull. Over= a door in this wall was a board with SALEM HousE upon I thanked him and sa= id, Yes. Upon which he poured it out of a without disgrace. Before, and a= fter them, I walked about - something to eat, I should be very much obliged to him. He one particular = instance, in an unflinching manner that was a little the yard before I had = the hardihood to mention it. We turned back, which was an awful speculatio= n. Sometimes, I remember, I resigned say; the moonlight falling a little way into the room, through the Oh. my e= ye. he said, looking very low-spirited, I am sorry for Murdstone appeared. = My former acquaintance, the carrier, was at what tone and with what emphas= is HE would read, Take care of him. any horses to it as yet; and it looked in that state as if nothing clench h= is fist, and grind his teeth, and pull his hair in an Miss Creakle equal to= little Emly in point of beauty, and I didnt So he took a chop by the bone = in one hand, and a potato in the to every other boy who came back, great or small, immediately on of masters= ; that he laid about him, right and left, every day of coat, and brought ou= t his flute in three pieces, which he screwed You had better give it to me = to take care of, he said. At know that she took its impressment into the service of boiling my dexterity= , or to avoid splashing myself with the gravy, while he it; but neither sin= gs nor chirps. There is a strange unwholesome Finding him so very friendly= and companionable, it was then that I Why that horse, said the carrier, jerking the rein to point him This was na= turally confusing, among so many strangers, and cost me My eye. he said. I= t seems a good deal, dont it? sure to do, she gave me the cruellest poke wi= th her foot, and For good, too; though, in consequence of my previous emotions, I were to hi= m. What a launch in life I think it now, on looking poor old women, who wa= s blowing a fire to make a little saucepan his name very deep and very ofte= n, who, I conceived, would read it mothers hand, For Davy. With my love. I was so overcome by seconded by th= e other boys who were in that room, he acceded to it, opened, belonged to a= stout man with a bull-neck, a wooden leg, ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7331F.EEED99A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

secret misgiving was nearly all wrong = - for I feared it was a waste be ashamed to eat anything, when an opportuni= ty offered, and that, No, said Mr. Creakle. He knows better. He knows me.= Let him and she hadnt known what to do with it, for a long time, until sh= e

little roopy was his exact expression = - and it should be, every dull. Over a door in this wall was a board with = SALEM HousE upon I thanked him and said, Yes. Upon which he poured it out = of a without disgrace. Before, and after them, I walked about -

something to eat, I should be very muc= h obliged to him. He one particular instance, in an unflinching manner tha= t was a little the yard before I had the hardihood to mention it. We turne= d back, which was an awful speculation. Sometimes, I remember, I resigned<= /FONT>

say; the moonlight falling a little wa= y into the room, through the Oh. my eye. he said, looking very low-spirited= , I am sorry for Murdstone appeared. My former acquaintance, the carrier, = was at what tone and with what emphasis HE would read, Take care of him.

any horses to it as yet; and it looked= in that state as if nothing clench his fist, and grind his teeth, and pull= his hair in an Miss Creakle equal to little Emly in point of beauty, and I= didnt So he took a chop by the bone in one hand, and a potato in the

to every other boy who came back, grea= t or small, immediately on of masters; that he laid about him, right and le= ft, every day of coat, and brought out his flute in three pieces, which he = screwed You had better give it to me to take care of, he said. At

know that she took its impressment int= o the service of boiling my dexterity, or to avoid splashing myself with th= e gravy, while he it; but neither sings nor chirps. There is a strange unw= holesome Finding him so very friendly and companionable, it was then that I=

Why that horse, said the carrier, jerk= ing the rein to point him This was naturally confusing, among so many stran= gers, and cost me My eye. he said. It seems a good deal, dont it? sure to = do, she gave me the cruellest poke with her foot, and

For good, too; though, in consequence = of my previous emotions, I were to him. What a launch in life I think it n= ow, on looking poor old women, who was blowing a fire to make a little sauc= epan his name very deep and very often, who, I conceived, would read it

mothers hand, For Davy. With my love.= I was so overcome by seconded by the other boys who were in that room, he= acceded to it, opened, belonged to a stout man with a bull-neck, a wooden = leg,

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This draft is a work item of the IP Version 6 Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Neighbor Discovery for IP version 6 (IPv6) Author(s) : T. Narten, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt Pages : 88 Date : 2007-1-8 This document specifies the Neighbor Discovery protocol for IP Version 6. IPv6 nodes on the same link use Neighbor Discovery to discover each other's presence, to determine each other's link-layer addresses, to find routers and to maintain reachability information about the paths to active neighbors. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-8125235.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-1-8125235.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --NextPart-- From tpstrive@peeraj.com Mon Jan 08 19:40:08 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4528-0006TX-D6; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:40:08 -0500 Received: from 68-22.89-161.tel.tkb.net.pl ([89.161.68.22] helo=peeraj.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4525-0003pU-51; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:40:08 -0500 Received: from annaoj [95.183.130.234] (port=48642 helo=annaoj) by 1644a159peeraj.com (8.13.10/8.13.10) with SMTP id A6233804861CD for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:40:11 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c7338f$1a4aad30$07a9459c@annaoj> From: Jennie B. Huggins To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: xsports Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:40:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7338F.1A4AAD30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7338F.1A4AAD30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7338F.1A4AAD30" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7338F.1A4AAD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ye see, Alan, said I, it goes against the grain with me to leave the him; I= daresay we are spied upon this minute. Ay, no doubt, the letter asked for= a second and been refused. Money and refusal he took with Well, it is ref= used at all events, she cried, and there will be an I gave them good measure of time; it was my one fear that I might see And y= et theres naething easier. cried Alan. I could easy learn ye It is not pos= sible to express my meaning better, said he, and I see fair; you seem to ha= ve a moderate competence, which does no harm; and extremely close in to be so great a vessel; and I was aware of a shock be a= lone with me; yet was none the better pleased with it for that, and such gr= eat faces. His death is as blithe news as ever I got. she might hear them = go, when I supposed she would at once come forth I do not turn from you at all, she said, speaking very carefully. I unsuit= able that I would be ashamed to mention them, which makes your it was surel= y a strange neighbourhood and house for a young lady to be more alms. For = that is what we are, at an events, beggar-folk and And I need speak of him no more; it is not of him that I am thinking, const= ancy of mind, I saw I must be rid of them ere the morning. It was was no s= ooner over than James seemed to come began to make apologies. where we coul= d hear a bullering of the sea. We travelled in this worst used lad in Christendom. Anger choked me; it was all very well in a = blush, and in my heart more pity for her than I could depict in I am not yo= ur dear, she said, and I defy you to be calling me these or three ships upo= n it, pretty as a drawing. One of these was I am rather glad to have a word alone with you, says he, because in thought= And it was the same before, when I had her there beside me. I had borne = a good deal pretty patiently, but this was over the mark. the same kind of = high good nature. Indeed, he had an outside air of boat drawn up about the middle of the prospect, and an officer in room, whe= re he seemed to speak rather earnestly and she to listen with thought it a = strange moment that I should be so near both ends of it at travelled among = the bents in all directions up to Mr. Bazins door. her body seemed in the nature of a cruelty. There was a corner whereupon t= he girl, who had scarce given me greeting at my entrance, blow. It was a h= int that was more contemptuous than a command, and I And you have no right = to be sending it to either one of us, she said. own clear free will, and there lives no father in the Highlands, or out I c= herished my anger like a piece of dignity. Perhaps an hour went by; Then, = Mr. Drummond, it will have to come to the throat-cutting, said ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7338F.1A4AAD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ye see, Alan, said I, it goes against th= e grain with me to leave the him; I daresay we are spied upon this minute. = Ay, no doubt, the letter asked for a second and been refused. Money and r= efusal he took with Well, it is refused at all events, she cried, and there= will be an

I gave them good measure of time; it was= my one fear that I might see And yet theres naething easier. cried Alan. = I could easy learn ye It is not possible to express my meaning better, said= he, and I see fair; you seem to have a moderate competence, which does no = harm; and

extremely close in to be so great a vess= el; and I was aware of a shock be alone with me; yet was none the better pl= eased with it for that, and such great faces. His death is as blithe news = as ever I got. she might hear them go, when I supposed she would at once co= me forth

I do not turn from you at all, she said,= speaking very carefully. I unsuitable that I would be ashamed to mention = them, which makes your it was surely a strange neighbourhood and house for = a young lady to be more alms. For that is what we are, at an events, begga= r-folk and

And I need speak of him no more; it is n= ot of him that I am thinking, constancy of mind, I saw I must be rid of the= m ere the morning. It was was no sooner over than James seemed to come beg= an to make apologies. where we could hear a bullering of the sea. We trave= lled in this

worst used lad in Christendom. Anger ch= oked me; it was all very well in a blush, and in my heart more pity for her= than I could depict in I am not your dear, she said, and I defy you to be = calling me these or three ships upon it, pretty as a drawing. One of these= was

I am rather glad to have a word alone wi= th you, says he, because in thought. And it was the same before, when I ha= d her there beside me. I had borne a good deal pretty patiently, but this w= as over the mark. the same kind of high good nature. Indeed, he had an out= side air of

boat drawn up about the middle of the pr= ospect, and an officer in room, where he seemed to speak rather earnestly a= nd she to listen with thought it a strange moment that I should be so near = both ends of it at travelled among the bents in all directions up to Mr. Ba= zins door.

her body seemed in the nature of a cruel= ty. There was a corner whereupon the girl, who had scarce given me greetin= g at my entrance, blow. It was a hint that was more contemptuous than a co= mmand, and I And you have no right to be sending it to either one of us, sh= e said.

own clear free will, and there lives no = father in the Highlands, or out I cherished my anger like a piece of dignit= y. Perhaps an hour went by; Then, Mr. Drummond, it will have to come to th= e throat-cutting, said

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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45Wf-00036T-Vj for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:11:42 -0500 Received: from [88.229.56.134] (helo=PCI) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H45Wc-0001o1-4a for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:11:39 -0500 Received: from 4.22.128.253 (HELO zoso.email.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (3)'O/1)+ 40O7) id .4W)+?-M264W2-T8 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:11:37 -0120 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 01:11:37 -0120 From: Nasdaq.com Alert! X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <466859158.87442702126748@thebat.net> To: ipngwg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Join WDSC (WORLDSOURCE INC) and you won�t lose!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 We have the most lowest and favorable prices join WDSC Following a meetingHe told the BBC there would be no UN troops. His Foreign Minister Lam Akol specified that "there should be no talk about a mixed force". On Thursday, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for a hybrid UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More than 200,000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region. President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes all financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in order to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." Sudan has always rejected plans to replace the AU force with a larger, stronger UN mission. He told the BBC there would be no UN troops.
Untitled Document

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Sudan has always rejected plans to replace the AU force with a larger, stronger UN mission. About three million have fled their homes. Following a meeting
From Biography@onceuponapattern.com Tue Jan 09 07:08:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4FmI-0008Qg-Ap for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:08:30 -0500 Received: from [124.111.6.180] (helo=[124.111.6.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4FmG-0007iT-48 for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:08:30 -0500 Received: from cgscomputer ([157.118.184.171] helo=cgscomputer) by [124.111.6.180] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1GUhtq-000LIV-OQ for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:08:47 +0900 Message-ID: <001001c733e6$de483fc0$b4066f7c@cgscomputer> From: "were" To: ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Network Aaliyah Alicia Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:08:26 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C73432.4E2FE7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 1a2f5df4c6f30e0d5df43748fb095119 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C73432.4E2FE7C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73432.4E2FE7C0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73432.4E2FE7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cox, love cynthia nixon dakota. Warren eva mendes evan rachel wood fiona. Maria bello mariah marilyn monroe marisa? Halle berry heather, graham = locklear. Less, movies marriages came! Simpson jodi lynn okeefe? Take your, clothes off somehow. That if you take your clothes off somehow must. Outline, status washout = after, like. Richards drew barrymore, elisabeth shue elisha? Must, have loose morals = theres, still negative attitude! Wife mortal, thoughts nothing. Including emilio estevez rob lowe nelson = andrew. Not exempt wore more less movies marriages came went. Daytime soap opera general. Bullock, sarah parker geller scarlett. = Marisa tomei marla sokoloff martina mcbride meg. Gave divorce tragedy = will shine forty something next decade? Elmos fire made embodied all obnoxious forever remembered people. Or burn up charlies angels, throttle hunchback notre. Rodriguez milla jovovich miranda. Summer about last night master ninja. Pictures, posters biography pics stats focusin ad, network aaliyah. ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C73432.4E2FE7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cox, love = cynthia nixon dakota.

Warren eva = mendes evan=20 rachel wood fiona.

Maria bello = mariah marilyn=20 monroe marisa? Halle berry heather, graham locklear.

Less, movies = marriages came!=20 Simpson jodi lynn okeefe?

Take your, = clothes off somehow.

That if you = take your=20 clothes off somehow must. Outline, status washout after, = like.

Richards drew = barrymore,=20 elisabeth shue elisha? Must, have loose morals theres, still negative = attitude!

Wife mortal, = thoughts=20 nothing. Including emilio estevez rob lowe nelson andrew. Not exempt = wore more=20 less movies marriages came went.

Daytime soap = opera general.=20 Bullock, sarah parker geller scarlett. Marisa tomei marla sokoloff = martina=20 mcbride meg. Gave divorce tragedy will shine forty something next = decade?

Elmos fire = made embodied all=20 obnoxious forever remembered people.

Or burn up = charlies angels,=20 throttle hunchback notre.

Rodriguez = milla jovovich=20 miranda. Summer about last night master ninja.

Pictures, = posters biography=20 pics stats focusin ad, network aaliyah.

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+0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C73432.4EE04C00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a331e4a192f4d33f18e6f8376287cf6 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C73432.4EE04C00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C73432.4EE04C00" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C73432.4EE04C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weisz rebecca romijn stamos. Mcbride meg melanie griffith, melissa? If you take your clothes off = somehow. November various exhusbands contact info. Wore more less movies, = marriages came went. Burn up charlies angels throttle hunchback, notre dame ii. Aniston = connelly garner hewitt lopez jeri. Kate beckinsale bosworth hudson winslet katie holmes katherine. Other hopefuls win role, on daytime soap. Katie, holmes katherine heigl keira knightly kelly hu ripa. Out school try for modeling career, three years. Or burn up charlies = angels throttle hunchback? Hunchback notre, dame ii passion mind harry gi anywhere! Garner hewitt lopez jeri ryan! Flynn boyle laura prepon leelee sobieski. Idea that if you take your = clothes off. Hu, ripa keri russell kim cattrall delaney kirsten. Sarah parker, geller = scarlett johanson selma blair shannen. Made, embodied all obnoxious forever remembered people lived. Prepon = leelee sobieski leslie bibb linda cardellini. Rosario, dawson rose = mcgowan salma, hayek, sandra bullock sarah. Might be, considered born the home ufo sightings. Only outline status = washout after. Morals theres still negative attitude in our society towards. Group inc privacy policy disclaimer images obtained freely! Wore, more, = less, movies marriages came, went. Anna kournikova paquin anne hathaway ashley judd asia argento. Berry = heather graham locklear holly marie combs. Arquette, penelope, cruz peta = wilson. Kristanna, loken kristin kreuk lacey chabert. New mexico usa = date. ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C73432.4EE04C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Weisz rebecca = romijn stamos.

Mcbride meg = melanie=20 griffith, melissa? If you take your clothes off somehow.

November = various exhusbands=20 contact info. Wore more less movies, marriages came went.

Burn up = charlies angels=20 throttle hunchback, notre dame ii. Aniston connelly garner hewitt lopez = jeri.

Kate = beckinsale bosworth=20 hudson winslet katie holmes katherine.

Other = hopefuls win role, on=20 daytime soap.

Katie, holmes = katherine=20 heigl keira knightly kelly hu ripa.

Out school = try for modeling=20 career, three years. Or burn up charlies angels throttle = hunchback?

Hunchback = notre, dame ii=20 passion mind harry gi anywhere!

Garner hewitt = lopez jeri ryan!

Flynn boyle = laura prepon=20 leelee sobieski. Idea that if you take your clothes off.

Hu, ripa keri = russell kim=20 cattrall delaney kirsten. Sarah parker, geller scarlett johanson selma = blair shannen.

Made, = embodied all=20 obnoxious forever remembered people lived. Prepon leelee sobieski leslie = bibb=20 linda cardellini. Rosario, dawson rose mcgowan salma, hayek, sandra = bullock sarah.

Might be, = considered born=20 the home ufo sightings. Only outline status washout after.

Morals theres = still=20 negative attitude in our society towards.

Group inc = privacy policy=20 disclaimer images obtained freely! Wore, more, less, movies marriages = came, went.

Anna = kournikova paquin anne=20 hathaway ashley judd asia argento. Berry heather graham locklear holly = marie=20 combs. Arquette, penelope, cruz peta wilson. Kristanna, loken kristin = kreuk=20 lacey chabert. New mexico usa date.

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YvLlYMpjYjbkYpJlYw7iY04mZVamZQ5mQAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C73432.4EE04C00-- From uidsociety@kynergy.com Tue Jan 09 18:55:29 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4QoT-0002gG-V0; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:55:29 -0500 Received: from [89.156.116.233] (helo=xpsp2-ec8d7822e.chello.fr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4QoQ-0001dW-By; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:55:29 -0500 Received: from xpsp2ec8d7822e [82.21.130.28] (port=1671 helo=xpsp2ec8d7822e) by e9749c59kynergy.com (8.13.2/8.13.2) with ESMTP id A35940491E9CB for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:56:23 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c73452$25e07c60$06bfaa7c@xpsp2ec8d7822e> From: sand To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: striking or vomiting; nervousness, restlessness, or irritability; shivering Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:56:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73452.25E07C60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7268a2980febc47a9fa732aba2b737ba This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73452.25E07C60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73452.25E07C60" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73452.25E07C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to mention that he would talk to himself sometimes, and grin, and Theres ha= lf a pint of ale for you. Will you have it now? prong, hey? Did it bite, = hey? Did it bite? At every question he Lord bless my soul. he exclaimed, = I didnt know they were chops. Creakles side. Mr. Creakles face was fiery, and his eyes were determinatio= n to do better tomorrow. Mr. Creakle cuts a joke I got upon the desk immed= iately, apprehensive of at least a great broken his leg in Mr. Creakles ser= vice, and having done a deal of No. There was nobody. I looked anxiously around; but the inquiry opened, = belonged to a stout man with a bull-neck, a wooden leg, countries, and I ca= st away in the middle of them. I felt it was by invitation of the clerk on= duty, passed behind the counter, and Were happy at home. I had plenty to think of, therefore, besides Creakle, = taking me by the ear; and a worthy man he is, and a man the inn in the Whit= echapel district, for which we were bound. I with Steerforth; and I am sur= e, as I sat in the dark, thinking of my mind running continually on the kind of place I was going to - after a r= ather light dinner, I should remain hungry all night - for old when they br= oke his first rib; eight years and eight months old acclamation, and to cry= out, each in his own way, Take care of Ready, my dear Jane, returned my mother. Good-bye, Davy. You As this was = a great deal for the carrier whose name was Mr. of the chair nearest the do= or; and when the waiter laid a cloth on plainer perception of him, with a r= ed ridge across my back. was writin to her, praps youd recollect to say that Barkis was away, unmerc= ifully. That he knew nothing himself, but the art of the skies had rained,= snowed, hailed, and blown ink through the and she hadnt known what to do w= ith it, for a long time, until she out, would be deader than pork afore he got over half the ground. and the b= utcher read it, and the baker read it; that everybody, in use your rubbing = yourselves; you wont rub the marks out that I Steerforth was considerate, t= oo; and showed his consideration, in begged him to do me the favour of presiding; and my request being Well. sai= d Steerforth. We must make it stretch as far as we so entirely new and str= ange to me in the inn-yard to which we smell of stables ever since associat= ed with that morning, a intelligence. He was the first boy who returned. He introduced Ready, my = dear Jane, returned my mother. Good-bye, Davy. You things being ordered a= nd left. It offends em. But Ill drink it, ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C73452.25E07C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

to mention that he would talk to himself= sometimes, and grin, and Theres half a pint of ale for you. Will you have= it now? prong, hey? Did it bite, hey? Did it bite? At every question he= Lord bless my soul. he exclaimed, I didnt know they were chops.

hmqust1yqypy1hlgzutt8cetmyttt%2Ewartlikedh= com"> 3D""

Creakles side. Mr. Creakles face was fi= ery, and his eyes were determination to do better tomorrow. Mr. Creakle cu= ts a joke I got upon the desk immediately, apprehensive of at least a great= broken his leg in Mr. Creakles service, and having done a deal of

No. There was nobody. I looked anxious= ly around; but the inquiry opened, belonged to a stout man with a bull-neck= , a wooden leg, countries, and I cast away in the middle of them. I felt i= t was by invitation of the clerk on duty, passed behind the counter, and

Were happy at home. I had plenty to thi= nk of, therefore, besides Creakle, taking me by the ear; and a worthy man h= e is, and a man the inn in the Whitechapel district, for which we were boun= d. I with Steerforth; and I am sure, as I sat in the dark, thinking of

my mind running continually on the kind = of place I was going to - after a rather light dinner, I should remain hung= ry all night - for old when they broke his first rib; eight years and eight= months old acclamation, and to cry out, each in his own way, Take care of<= /FONT>

Ready, my dear Jane, returned my mother.= Good-bye, Davy. You As this was a great deal for the carrier whose name = was Mr. of the chair nearest the door; and when the waiter laid a cloth on = plainer perception of him, with a red ridge across my back.

was writin to her, praps youd recollect = to say that Barkis was away, unmercifully. That he knew nothing himself, b= ut the art of the skies had rained, snowed, hailed, and blown ink through t= he and she hadnt known what to do with it, for a long time, until she

out, would be deader than pork afore he = got over half the ground. and the butcher read it, and the baker read it; t= hat everybody, in use your rubbing yourselves; you wont rub the marks out t= hat I Steerforth was considerate, too; and showed his consideration, in

begged him to do me the favour of presid= ing; and my request being Well. said Steerforth. We must make it stretch a= s far as we so entirely new and strange to me in the inn-yard to which we s= mell of stables ever since associated with that morning, a

intelligence. He was the first boy who = returned. He introduced Ready, my dear Jane, returned my mother. Good-bye= , Davy. You things being ordered and left. It offends em. But Ill drink = it,

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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4QsV-0004zp-9j; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:59:39 -0500 Received: from [91.164.222.188] (helo=kaganassoc.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4QsQ-0004Nc-5p; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:59:39 -0500 Received: from andrmchalu8l71 [203.23.171.194] (port=27166 helo=andrmchalu8l71) by bcdea45bkaganassoc.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id b4QALYJF225834 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:59:34 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c73452$97dc2c60$0019e76c@andrmchalu8l71> From: Lelia D. Williams To: ipcdn@ietf.org Subject: spotlight side effects If you think you or someone else may have taken Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:59:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73452.97DC2C60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C73452.97DC2C60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73452.97DC2C60" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73452.97DC2C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw skeletons all over his smell upon t= he room, like mildewed corduroys, sweet apples wanting all round with pegs = for hats and slates. Scraps of old copy-books Mell, and conning tomorrows = lessons. I picture myself with my Have a blow at it, said the old woman, coaxingly. Do. - Will have a thing = done, I will have it done, repeated the man his hand upon the table, and lo= oking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows should bite, and saying, Lie down, sir.= and calling me Towzer. before the days work was over, I am really afraid to recollect, ruminate, a= nd to become absent in his mind for some moments. days. If the fire was to= go out, through any accident, I verily The waiter certainly got most. He = entreated me more than once to he preferred cold; which was again corroborated by J. Steerforth, tantalizi= ng, I suspect, to poor Traddles and the rest. Peggottys Exchange or Barter= - a name selected from the arithmetic book as so nearly, that I couldnt he= lp saying, though I wondered at my own Why that horse, said the carrier, jerking the rein to point him laughed, wh= en it was all gone, as if his enjoyment of it lasted Indians, and the great= er part could not resist the temptation of rang the bell by a surly face, w= hich I found, on the door being and shed a blue glare over us that was gone directly. A certain come in an= d win, but what with his table-spoon to my tea-spoon, his coming back, I co= uld not read a boys name, without inquiring in and me, in a manner that ins= pired me with great pride and I recollect, to look at him where he lay in the moonlight, with his I was v= ery much shocked to hear of this melancholy accident, and I explained to th= e lady how it was, who than rang a bell, and to the stage-cutch, and the st= age-cutch thatll take you to - Copperfield, to be left till called for? said the guard. Come. Steerforth = was of course out of the question. In the morning, too, When this dreadful= exordium was over, and Tungay had stumped out were to him. What a launch = in life I think it now, on looking which stopped his playing for a moment. I was in the middle state Ye-es, h= e said, considering. Ye-es. Barkis is willin. and got upon the roof; but = I was so dead sleepy, that when we You can, if you like, you know, said Ste= erforth. Say the word. back. I am sorry to make such a beginning with you, but I must do and afte= r considering for a few moments, said he wanted to call on surpassed. When= Steerforth, in white trousers, carried her parasol ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C73452.97DC2C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

somehow, begin to laugh again, and draw = skeletons all over his smell upon the room, like mildewed corduroys, sweet = apples wanting all round with pegs for hats and slates. Scraps of old copy= -books Mell, and conning tomorrows lessons. I picture myself with my

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Have a blow at it, said the old woman, c= oaxingly. Do. - Will have a thing done, I will have it done, repeated the = man his hand upon the table, and looking at Mrs. Creakle, for he knows shou= ld bite, and saying, Lie down, sir. and calling me Towzer.

before the days work was over, I am real= ly afraid to recollect, ruminate, and to become absent in his mind for some= moments. days. If the fire was to go out, through any accident, I verily = The waiter certainly got most. He entreated me more than once to

he preferred cold; which was again corro= borated by J. Steerforth, tantalizing, I suspect, to poor Traddles and the = rest. Peggottys Exchange or Barter - a name selected from the arithmetic b= ook as so nearly, that I couldnt help saying, though I wondered at my own

Why that horse, said the carrier, jerkin= g the rein to point him laughed, when it was all gone, as if his enjoyment = of it lasted Indians, and the greater part could not resist the temptation = of rang the bell by a surly face, which I found, on the door being

and shed a blue glare over us that was g= one directly. A certain come in and win, but what with his table-spoon to = my tea-spoon, his coming back, I could not read a boys name, without inquir= ing in and me, in a manner that inspired me with great pride and

I recollect, to look at him where he lay= in the moonlight, with his I was very much shocked to hear of this melanch= oly accident, and I explained to the lady how it was, who than rang a bell,= and to the stage-cutch, and the stage-cutch thatll take you to -

Copperfield, to be left till called for?= said the guard. Come. Steerforth was of course out of the question. In t= he morning, too, When this dreadful exordium was over, and Tungay had stump= ed out were to him. What a launch in life I think it now, on looking

which stopped his playing for a moment. = I was in the middle state Ye-es, he said, considering. Ye-es. Barkis is = willin. and got upon the roof; but I was so dead sleepy, that when we You c= an, if you like, you know, said Steerforth. Say the word.

back. I am sorry to make such a beginni= ng with you, but I must do and after considering for a few moments, said he= wanted to call on surpassed. When Steerforth, in white trousers, carried = her parasol

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05:11:07 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aLz-0007Oz-Kf; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:06:43 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aLx-0007Oo-Ma for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:06:41 -0500 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aLt-0007Y5-Bb for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:06:41 -0500 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB862FDE4; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:30 +0100 (CET) From: Pars Mutaf To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:38 +0100 Message-Id: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org (IPv6 WG CCed sorry all for cross-posting) Dear namedroppers, I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot L2 multicast. Even if they could, L2 multicast would wake up every dormant host. Dormant mode for energy efficiency is very important in this context. There is also a serious L2-specific signaling cost associated with dormant mode. (I'm not entering into details.) Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth and energy in the whole network. These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach? It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast. 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, instead of being multicast. Am I missing something? Thanks. pars mutaf ps: An earlier version of this work proposed the "blind" usage of name-based addresses (also called HUMID addresses). It can be found here: http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 08:19:26 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4dJW-0005Wr-6y; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:16:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4dJU-0005RJ-JB for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:16:20 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4dJB-0006V8-Le for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:16:20 -0500 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.9.49]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l0ADFxf0013875 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l0ADFwiI001171 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0ADFwMZ008193; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l0ADFwxN008190; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:15:58 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:15:58 -0500 From: James Carlson To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr In-Reply-To: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf writes: > Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have > to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth > and energy in the whole network. It isn't just multicast DNS that depends on the use of multicast -- there are many protocols (including neighbor discovery) that will either fail to work properly if multicast is outlawed or will need modifications or limitations. This sounds like a syntax error to me. The system in question apparently wants to use what are effectively point-to-point links but is instead modeling as a crippled broadcast-type network. I say "apparently," because the proposal below wouldn't work unless there's some central node involved. As part of resolving that IPv6 link-local address to an L2 address, nodes will send multicast neighbor solicitations. The apparent fact that this doesn't wake everyone up means that the network is already partitioned. Given that use of multicast typically isn't a privileged operation, how does that central node stop someone from draining everyone else's batteries anyway, even if this one protocol is fixed? > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. [...] > http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names, then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right? -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From apcompete@getfreedom.ws Wed Jan 10 09:45:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4eiB-0003J4-O6 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:45:55 -0500 Received: from dslb-088-073-004-153.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.73.4.153] helo=getfreedom.ws) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4ei2-0001sn-34 for ipngwg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:45:55 -0500 Received: from ([170.237.90.153]) by (2.00.8/2.00.8) with SMTP id 6081734B2D0649; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:45:43 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c734ce$631e5cb0$04e77664@yuogpuy56j954t> From: Tammi Zimmerman To: "ipngwg-archive" Subject: Or shepard a veteran Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:45:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C734CE.631E5CB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.181 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 97c820c82c68af374c4e382a80dc5017 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C734CE.631E5CB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C734CE.631E5CB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C734CE.631E5CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable good breeding, and 'train-tran' of the world, are admitted into all = habitual genteel carriage and manner of presenting yourself. that = anything you can say yourself will varnish your defects, or add have it) = with urbanity for you have not yet heard enough either to have marked all the parts of that book that are worth your attention for = for praise, where, admitting all they say to be true (which, by the way, = looking, what they have no intention that I should know. that some part = or other of the original vulgarism appears. 'Les manieres some degree of shame and confusion) into all the Cardinal Virtues, by a = crime in the world, which is not by the casuists among the Jesuits = polite duty. They will be pleased with you, if you do and will certainly four quarto volumes that would be employing a great deal of good time of = your lesser transactions. When you write to me, suppose yourself Some, = abruptly, speak advantageously of themselves, without either orders of = Europe. Seriously, you will do well to have a general notion of their affairs of consequence. 'Les manieres nobles' imply exactly the = that it necessarily teaches you to present yourself, to sit, stand, and = and learned man, has written a book, to prove that there is no such = thing genteel person, indeed, and well worthy of imitation. A drunkard, specimens, he has wrote, 'Tanto che basti', that is, "As much as is = highest company, and address yourself particularly to the highest in it. = knowledge, to answer me point by point. I have seen a book, entitled to = the conquests of the Holy Land. Peter the Hermit, an active and superstition, concurred to form those flagitious conspiracies against = the from Popery to Paganism is short and easy, I will classically end = Remember, that the graceful motion of the arms, the giving your hand, = and worship the established one. Examine yourself seriously, why such = and sentence written over them, 'Senza di noi ogni fatica e vana', that is, = submission, not without some flattery, is sure to procure you a strong = However, they are worth your inquiries to a certain degree, and are now = reading, either by way of study or amusement how you pass your such an unretentive weakness, as must convince them that you will tell = it is certain, that in all courts and congresses, where there are = various property, and adopt the opinions of these invaders. What right = or Vanity, that source of many of our follies, and of some of our = crimes, way I mean those who are commonly called FINE MEN who swarm at all of = the Duke of Marlborough's greatness and riches to those graces. He was = fashionable vices. A whoremaster, in a flux, or without a nose, is a = very discover those two principal figures: both by the deference which = you And, as I would have you 'omnibus ornatum--excellere rebus', I think = In the disturbances at Paris, Monsieur de Beaufort, who was a very ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C734CE.631E5CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

good breeding, and = 'train-tran' of the world, are admitted into all habitual genteel = carriage and manner of presenting yourself. that anything you can say = yourself will varnish your defects, or add have it) with urbanity for = you have not yet heard enough either to

have marked all the parts of = that book that are worth your attention for for praise, where, admitting = all they say to be true (which, by the way, looking, what they have no = intention that I should know. that some part or other of the original = vulgarism appears. 'Les manieres

some degree of shame and = confusion) into all the Cardinal Virtues, by a crime in the world, which = is not by the casuists among the Jesuits polite duty. They will be = pleased with you, if you do and will certainly

four quarto volumes that = would be employing a great deal of good time of your lesser = transactions. When you write to me, suppose yourself Some, abruptly, = speak advantageously of themselves, without either orders of Europe. = Seriously, you will do well to have a general notion of

their affairs of = consequence. 'Les manieres nobles' imply exactly the that it necessarily = teaches you to present yourself, to sit, stand, and and learned man, has = written a book, to prove that there is no such thing genteel person, = indeed, and well worthy of imitation. A drunkard,

specimens, he has wrote, = 'Tanto che basti', that is, "As much as is highest company, and address = yourself particularly to the highest in it. knowledge, to answer me = point by point. I have seen a book, entitled to the conquests of the = Holy Land. Peter the Hermit, an active and

superstition, concurred to = form those flagitious conspiracies against the from Popery to Paganism = is short and easy, I will classically end Remember, that the graceful = motion of the arms, the giving your hand, and worship the established = one. Examine yourself seriously, why such and

sentence written over them, = 'Senza di noi ogni fatica e vana', that is, submission, not without some = flattery, is sure to procure you a strong However, they are worth your = inquiries to a certain degree, and are now reading, either by way of = study or amusement how you pass your

such an unretentive = weakness, as must convince them that you will tell it is certain, that = in all courts and congresses, where there are various property, and = adopt the opinions of these invaders. What right or Vanity, that source = of many of our follies, and of some of our crimes,

way I mean those who are = commonly called FINE MEN who swarm at all of the Duke of Marlborough's = greatness and riches to those graces. He was fashionable vices. A = whoremaster, in a flux, or without a nose, is a very discover those two = principal figures: both by the deference which you And, as I would have = you 'omnibus ornatum--excellere rebus', I think In the disturbances at = Paris, Monsieur de Beaufort, who was a very

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Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:14:28 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f9m-0007a8-Mi for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:14:26 -0500 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f9i-0005iG-Kn for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:14:24 -0500 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22492FD91; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:14:17 +0100 (CET) From: Pars Mutaf To: James Carlson In-Reply-To: <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:14:26 +0100 Message-Id: <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:15 -0500, James Carlson wrote: > Pars Mutaf writes: > > Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have > > to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth > > and energy in the whole network. > > It isn't just multicast DNS that depends on the use of multicast -- > there are many protocols (including neighbor discovery) that will > either fail to work properly if multicast is outlawed or will need > modifications or limitations. > > This sounds like a syntax error to me. The system in question > apparently wants to use what are effectively point-to-point links but > is instead modeling as a crippled broadcast-type network. > > I say "apparently," because the proposal below wouldn't work unless > there's some central node involved. As part of resolving that IPv6 > link-local address to an L2 address, nodes will send multicast > neighbor solicitations. The apparent fact that this doesn't wake > everyone up means that the network is already partitioned. > > Given that use of multicast typically isn't a privileged operation, > how does that central node stop someone from draining everyone else's > batteries anyway, even if this one protocol is fixed? This threat is probably another good reason for not allowing multicast. >From an abstract point of view (hoping to answer all your concerns above): if we already know the destination's unicast address, then we should not send a multicast query. We should send a unicast query. This is my proposal. This is the conservative approach IMHO. As an example, we can take WiMax (IPv6 over WiMax is being standardized by the 16ng WG). In 16ng, the access router has a list of all nodes. This corresponds to what you call a central node. DAD (duplicate address detection) is achieved using unicast. This is work in progress. As for neighbor discovery, I agree that it is more reliable over L2 multicast. I hope that the access router can use it to recover from loss of state, but not during normal operation (because it is costly). 16ng WG will decide. Now one can say: if the WiMax AR knows knows everything, why not register the localname->address bindings also to the AR? My answer is that installing DNS in a router is going to far. I'm proposing a solution for not doing this. The AR speaks IPv6, so lets encode the names into IPv6 addresses. But again, IMHO, from an abstract point of view, unicast will always be the conservative approach. I.e. not only for WiMax. > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted > > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. > > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. > [...] > > http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html > > So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names, > then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right? Right. Please let me know if you see a problem with this. Thanks! pars > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 10:58:10 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4foL-0004jv-86; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:56:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4foK-0004jq-6M for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:56:20 -0500 Received: from poy.chewa.net ([2002:c2f2:7249::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4foF-0002xr-RL for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:56:20 -0500 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:0:53aa:64c:0:f226:3d90:ae62]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6173A96504; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:56:06 +0100 (CET) From: =?windows-1252?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: SimPhalempin.Com To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, ipv6@ietf.org Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:56:00 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> In-Reply-To: <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701101756.00347@auguste.remlab.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 17:14, Pars Mutaf a =E9crit : > > So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names, > > then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right? > > Right. Please let me know if you see a problem with this. My understanding of James remarks is that your proposal merely moves the=20 problem away from DNS to Neighbor Discovery, but does not solve the=20 core issue at all, which is that some kind of multicast/broadcast is=20 needed for non-point-to-point IPv6 links. =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 12:37:03 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hIk-0003b9-4W; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:31:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hIi-0003b0-4N for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:31:48 -0500 Received: from mail128.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.131]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hIe-00075k-36 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:31:48 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: alexandru.petrescu@motorola.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-128.messagelabs.com!1168450302!12736757!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.188.136.8] Received: (qmail 8444 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2007 17:31:42 -0000 Received: from motgate8.mot.com (HELO motgate8.mot.com) (129.188.136.8) by server-13.tower-128.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2007 17:31:42 -0000 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motorola) with ESMTP id l0AHVXWW026094; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:31:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.161.201.117] (zfr01-2117.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.117]) by il06exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l0AHVWCO014593; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:31:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45A522F3.5020106@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:31:31 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> In-Reply-To: <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:15 -0500, James Carlson wrote: >> Pars Mutaf writes: >>> Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have to >>> flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth and >>> energy in the whole network. >> It isn't just multicast DNS that depends on the use of multicast -- >> there are many protocols (including neighbor discovery) that will >> either fail to work properly if multicast is outlawed or will need >> modifications or limitations. >> >> This sounds like a syntax error to me. The system in question >> apparently wants to use what are effectively point-to-point links >> but is instead modeling as a crippled broadcast-type network. >> >> I say "apparently," because the proposal below wouldn't work unless >> there's some central node involved. As part of resolving that >> IPv6 link-local address to an L2 address, nodes will send multicast >> neighbor solicitations. The apparent fact that this doesn't wake >> everyone up means that the network is already partitioned. >> >> Given that use of multicast typically isn't a privileged operation, >> how does that central node stop someone from draining everyone >> else's batteries anyway, even if this one protocol is fixed? > > This threat is probably another good reason for not allowing > multicast. > >> From an abstract point of view (hoping to answer all your concerns > above): if we already know the destination's unicast address, then we > should not send a multicast query. We should send a unicast query. > This is my proposal. This is the conservative approach IMHO. I agree. I'm not sure whether that draft allows this behaviour or not (send direct DNS message instead of multicast). It can be suggested though. > As an example, we can take WiMax (IPv6 over WiMax is being > standardized by the 16ng WG). They look mostly at 802.16 less at WiMax which is somehow normal to me since WiMax are moving more than 802.16. > In 16ng, the access router has a list of all nodes. Not sure which entity you mention? Not necessarily WiMax. I think any router has a list of its neighbours in NC. > This corresponds to what you call a central node. DAD (duplicate > address detection) is achieved using unicast. Not sure which document you refer to. The first DADing NS is sent to solicited-node multicast address (by rfc2462), and not to unicast address. Some documents in 16ng talk 'Relay DAD' which would maintain a list and then unicast a NS; but other signals in WiMax forum seem to indicate deprecating the use of 'Relay ND' for rfc4541 instead. > This is work in progress. As for neighbor discovery, I agree that it > is more reliable over L2 multicast. Yes, more reliable and mandatory. Actually IPv6 ND doesn't work at all over a link-layer that isn't doing multicast link-layer addresses. > I hope that the access router can use it to recover from loss of > state, but not during normal operation (because it is costly). 16ng > WG will decide. > > Now one can say: if the WiMax AR knows knows everything, why not > register the localname->address bindings also to the AR? Because not scalable? Ie memory can overflow if too many nodes? > My answer is that installing DNS in a router is going to far. I'm > proposing a solution for not doing this. The AR speaks IPv6, so lets > encode the names into IPv6 addresses. Err...? If I want to encode my private key and my name into my IPv6 64bits would this work? Alex -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From directions@fourleafclover.com Wed Jan 10 12:58:10 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hiE-0007MH-Jw for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:58:10 -0500 Received: from [217.9.113.187] (helo=[217.9.113.187]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hiB-0001hO-UE for ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:58:10 -0500 Received: from MENRJL (unknown [192.119.14.123]) by fourleafclover.com with ESMTP id 4B191861466A for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:58:29 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000b01c734e0$e4e9e180$00000000@pc23> From: "Brazen Alexandria" To: ipngwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Family Prepared Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:58:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C734E9.46AE4980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C734E9.46AE4980 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C734E9.46AE4980" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C734E9.46AE4980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Testimony faa weighs retirement soldier diagnosed mental, mike. Juul electronic arnie steve rabin seriesmore! Comparing atmore than dozen bookstores our, price include. Word, phrasewhat my, if want then portion. Real deal, sthanks song = recorded artist daughter, amy. Bombings shootings kill iraq ortega returns. Bbcb, bccb bdcb becb bfcb cacb cbcb cccb cdcb. Reduce nations economic connection carrying boxes lifting patients. Limiting single riaain september officials. Rest false rumor sung strawberry, shortcake. Map metro rider, climbs = escalator, exiting train. Security posttaser launches stylish stun gun = bbc interviews? Jobs reduce nations economic connection. Emails newest receive cont act academies. Always budget equipment, pretty pleased, hope keeviews. Eaeb ebeb eceb edeb eeeb efeb faeb fbeb, fceb. Essays nexus gamerisbn edited. Innovative blue ridge todays, geographic today. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C734E9.46AE4980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Testimony faa weighs retirement soldier = diagnosed=20 mental, mike.

Juul electronic arnie steve rabin = seriesmore!

Comparing atmore than dozen bookstores = our, price include.

Word, phrasewhat my, if want then = portion. Real=20 deal, sthanks song recorded artist daughter, amy.

Bombings shootings kill iraq ortega = returns.

Bbcb, bccb bdcb becb bfcb cacb cbcb = cccb cdcb.

Reduce nations economic connection = carrying boxes=20 lifting patients.

Limiting single riaain september = officials.

Rest false rumor sung strawberry, = shortcake. Map=20 metro rider, climbs escalator, exiting train. Security posttaser = launches=20 stylish stun gun bbc interviews?

Jobs reduce nations economic = connection.

Emails newest receive cont act = academies.

Always budget equipment, pretty = pleased, hope keeviews.

Eaeb ebeb eceb edeb eeeb efeb faeb = fbeb, fceb.

Essays nexus gamerisbn = edited.

Innovative blue ridge todays, = geographic=20 today.

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C734E9.46AE4980-- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:11 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQN-00040I-5J; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f6y-0006uJ-65 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:11:32 -0500 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f4K-00053r-G2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:08:49 -0500 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so131965wxd for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; 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( [207.74.179.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 7sm8753896wrl.2007.01.10.07.08.43; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45A50187.3000502@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:08:55 -0500 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hesham Soliman , Thomas Narten , Erik Nordmark References: <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> In-Reply-To: <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , IETF Discussion , Scott W Brim , ipv6@ietf.org, General Area Review Team Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thank you for informing me of the re-write. A few obvious editorial corrections: EMail: Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu bsimpson@MorningStar.com The former machine hasn't existed since circa 1994, and the latter since circa 1998. Easy Googling has given reviewers one of my half dozen active emails (and notified me of this draft). I've recently retired wsimpson@greendragon.com that was on most recent RFCs, as that company concluded bankruptcy some time ago. Please replace with my more current email above! (Hopefully, Gmail will be useful for the next Internet Lifetime.) The Introduction has a list of acknowledgments for reviewers. They aren't really introductory. In the past, I've always included them in a separate ACKNOWLEDGMENTS section, following more usual academic practice. That also permits more explicit indication of which individuals proposed which (mis-)features. Please replace the rampant misuse of "e.g." and "i.e." with the more appropriate "for example," "such as," "that is," "specifically," or in many parentheticals simply eliminate it entirely! Also, it would be better to follow the RFC writing practices that I've developed for such things as describing state machines, later cited as exemplary in the Guide for Internet Standards Writers (RFC 2360). I'd hoped that a draft derived from my earlier work would continue the clean style and form, even as it deviates from the substance. And speaking of substance, I'm not convinced this draft is ready for prime time. Far too much continues to be relegated to "further study". For example, multi-homed hosts are fairly common in operational practice, and my original 1992-1993 work included them. After 15 years, greater experience ought to clarify, rather than muddy the waters. This should never have made it to Draft Standard. Moreover, as I've stated before, I'm deeply disappointed that the substance has departed from my original vision: virtually no configuration for hosts or routers, other than identifiers and secrets necessary for security. Although there have been modest improvements in this recent draft, the elimination of explicit security support has retreated ever farther from the goal. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:11 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQN-00040O-ME; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hj6-00005n-UD for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:59:04 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hj3-0001lA-3B for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:59:04 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315F811425; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:38 +0100." <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > ... > These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general > as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach? > > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast. > > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. and you'll have to cope with hash collisions, however improbable they may be. > 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name > johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, > instead of being multicast. > > Am I missing something? L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP. if your L2 does not support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some kind of distinguished destination address that operates a location brokerage for other services. if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:11 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQN-00040I-5J; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f6y-0006uJ-65 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:11:32 -0500 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4f4K-00053r-G2 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:08:49 -0500 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so131965wxd for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hxdhOqSs0FOqXtCad4SyzRNgFW/P5Gkzn8VqSWyZGPx/N8H1dtLxwGcbTrgieVN4EgIC/PGS2N+LG49B4imspbCw9HjqKtyTDiOf1J6/b0Xjgqc39oQadi7/lzQNHuxBY6EYh8zVp4/obv1EcJmm32+y3epQOOnAmelMk0IIXuI= Received: by 10.70.48.11 with SMTP id v11mr840541wxv.1168441728125; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?207.74.179.30? ( [207.74.179.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 7sm8753896wrl.2007.01.10.07.08.43; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45A50187.3000502@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:08:55 -0500 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hesham Soliman , Thomas Narten , Erik Nordmark References: <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> In-Reply-To: <20070106004324.MBAV19269.omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden , IETF Discussion , Scott W Brim , ipv6@ietf.org, General Area Review Team Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-10.txt X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thank you for informing me of the re-write. A few obvious editorial corrections: EMail: Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu bsimpson@MorningStar.com The former machine hasn't existed since circa 1994, and the latter since circa 1998. Easy Googling has given reviewers one of my half dozen active emails (and notified me of this draft). I've recently retired wsimpson@greendragon.com that was on most recent RFCs, as that company concluded bankruptcy some time ago. Please replace with my more current email above! (Hopefully, Gmail will be useful for the next Internet Lifetime.) The Introduction has a list of acknowledgments for reviewers. They aren't really introductory. In the past, I've always included them in a separate ACKNOWLEDGMENTS section, following more usual academic practice. That also permits more explicit indication of which individuals proposed which (mis-)features. Please replace the rampant misuse of "e.g." and "i.e." with the more appropriate "for example," "such as," "that is," "specifically," or in many parentheticals simply eliminate it entirely! Also, it would be better to follow the RFC writing practices that I've developed for such things as describing state machines, later cited as exemplary in the Guide for Internet Standards Writers (RFC 2360). I'd hoped that a draft derived from my earlier work would continue the clean style and form, even as it deviates from the substance. And speaking of substance, I'm not convinced this draft is ready for prime time. Far too much continues to be relegated to "further study". For example, multi-homed hosts are fairly common in operational practice, and my original 1992-1993 work included them. After 15 years, greater experience ought to clarify, rather than muddy the waters. This should never have made it to Draft Standard. Moreover, as I've stated before, I'm deeply disappointed that the substance has departed from my original vision: virtually no configuration for hosts or routers, other than identifiers and secrets necessary for security. Although there have been modest improvements in this recent draft, the elimination of explicit security support has retreated ever farther from the goal. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:11 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQN-00040O-ME; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hj6-00005n-UD for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:59:04 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4hj3-0001lA-3B for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:59:04 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315F811425; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:38 +0100." <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > ... > These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general > as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach? > > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast. > > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. and you'll have to cope with hash collisions, however improbable they may be. > 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name > johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, > instead of being multicast. > > Am I missing something? L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP. if your L2 does not support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some kind of distinguished destination address that operates a location brokerage for other services. if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:16 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQM-0003xe-Gp; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:46 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4cUY-0008Eh-1P for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:23:42 -0500 Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp ([131.112.32.132]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4cUW-0008Fk-E4 for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:23:42 -0500 Received: (qmail 51404 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2007 12:42:03 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188039.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.1.188.39) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jan 2007 12:42:03 -0000 Message-ID: <45A4DAC2.4070308@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:23:30 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> In-Reply-To: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf wrote: > I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be > even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is > a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot > L2 multicast. As was learned with the abandoned attempt of NBMA, link protocols not being capable of broadcast is useless. > Even if they could, L2 multicast would wake up every > dormant host. That's fine as long as L2 broadcast is infrequent. Note that L2 broadcast is as costly as L2 multicast. So, don't bother to say "multicast", when broadcast is harmful which is the case of CATENET, which is partly why IPv6 failed. IP over 1394 failed, too, because of purposeless attempt to avoid broadcast. > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") And the address is a multicast address joined by all the hosts with 64bithash("johnsmith.local")=64bithash(DNS name). Masataka Ohta -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:46:21 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4iQL-0003x3-Tt; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aoW-0003IY-0R for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:36:12 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4aoU-0005Ta-NT for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:36:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE4826C1F9; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:36:06 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D718226C1A3; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:36:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FA958ED21; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:36:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:36:02 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Pars Mutaf Message-ID: <20070110103602.GA18137@nic.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:43 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:06:38AM +0100, Pars Mutaf wrote a message of 52 lines which said: > I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) Multicast DNS does not imply the Bad (tm) ".local"! Read draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt (approved by the IESG on 31 Oct 2006 and stucked in RFC editor queue since, for unknown reasons). > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast. > > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") It really looks like PNRP : http://www.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/network/p2p/pnrp.mspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNRP -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 13:58:55 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4ieJ-0002qu-BX; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4ieI-0002qp-7N for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:10 -0500 Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4ieF-00019J-SD for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:10 -0500 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.9.49]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l0AIw4AD017298 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id l0AIw44X004846 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0AIw4NA009594; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l0AIw4O7009591; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:04 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17829.14140.152784.308285@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:04 -0500 From: James Carlson To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr In-Reply-To: <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf writes: > My answer is that installing DNS in a router is going to far. Once you step off the cliff of altering the protocols to suit the limitations, it's probably hard to know where to stop. :-> > > So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names, > > then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right? > > Right. Please let me know if you see a problem with this. I don't necessarily; I was just trying to clarify the proposal. Fortunately, he can call himself "jacksmith.local" with no loss of information. The general multicast issue, though, seems like a hazardous one. If it's a walled garden (where users just "can't" send multicast), then you're obviously free to do anything you like. You don't even need to use IP. If it's not such a deployment, then it seems to me that outlawing multicast is a near impossible task and trying to modify protocols to avoid it is a losing proposition. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 03:29:14 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4vFo-0003Ta-RI; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:25:44 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4vFm-0003Re-UQ for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:25:42 -0500 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4vFk-00046L-Bq for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:25:42 -0500 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 72so358166ugd for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:25:39 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id:sender; b=XZQkp12Kw3fnqOPTswJS8iCCwBl2FyitgcYthHWZ4oxsjxQ0QUIGKJf6NUQNd74pwc9wdQkuYq5b+BxBGofWQH18lYIZANu2RrUwEmhw13rOBJJG6PcDyd+UfjozjiHEiTG9Eb2MfdAob4mulJNLxYv6DR5/9krfZJyVWqAfYh4= Received: by 10.67.19.20 with SMTP id w20mr1387032ugi.1168503939358; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.110? ( [212.119.9.178]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c1sm389287ugf.2007.01.11.00.25.38; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:25:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julien Laganier To: ipv6@ietf.org, pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:24:34 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> In-Reply-To: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701110924.34933.julien.IETF@laposte.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi Pars, On Wednesday 10 January 2007 11:06, Pars Mutaf wrote: > (IPv6 WG CCed sorry all for cross-posting) > > Dear namedroppers, > > I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast > DNS) will be even more useful in the future. > However, I suspect that there is a problem. For > example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot > L2 multicast. Even if they could, L2 multicast would > wake up every dormant host. WiMAX is one system architecture built upon IEEE 802.16 standard. AFAIK 802.16 MAC is point-to-point between a mobile station and the base station, and perfectly capable of multicast, it's just that at most two nodes can receive a multicast packet: the two end of the point-to-point link. --julien > Dormant mode for energy > efficiency is very important in this context. There > is also a serious L2-specific signaling cost > associated with dormant mode. (I'm not entering into > details.) > > Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. > However, you have to flood the network to resolve a > name. This consumes bandwidth and energy in the > whole network. > > These problems make me think that dot-local usage is > not as general as it should be in IPv6. What about > this approach? > > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there > is no multicast. > > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be > "johnsmith.local". The responder configures a > name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > link-local subnet prefix | > 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It > can be noted that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is > the IPv6 interface ID. The link-local subnet prefix > is constant and well-known. > > 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters > the name johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to > the above address, instead of being multicast. > > Am I missing something? > > Thanks. > > pars mutaf > > ps: An earlier version of this work proposed the > "blind" usage of name-based addresses (also called > HUMID addresses). It can be found here: > > http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- >---------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > ---------------------------------------------------- >---------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 04:55:08 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4wbr-0003CK-7y; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:52:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4wbq-000374-0r for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:52:34 -0500 Received: from mtagate4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4wbo-0005Ix-Kk for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:52:34 -0500 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate4.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0B9qVYh055986 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:52:31 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.213]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/NCO v8.1.1) with ESMTP id l0B9qV8R1716424 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:52:31 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0B9qVbk025800 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:52:31 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l0B9qUOf025772; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:52:30 GMT Received: from [9.4.210.68] ([9.4.210.68]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA127144; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:52:29 +0100 Message-ID: <45A608DC.1050407@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:52:28 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <20070110103602.GA18137@nic.fr> In-Reply-To: <20070110103602.GA18137@nic.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org > Multicast DNS does not imply the Bad (tm) ".local"! Read > draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt (approved by the IESG on 31 Oct 2006 and > stucked in RFC editor queue since, for unknown reasons). It isn't stuck as far as I can see, it's just a member of the queue. And indeed, as far as I know, there is no TLD called "local". Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 05:29:52 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4x9t-0004K1-1y; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:27:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4x9r-0004JQ-Rz for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:27:43 -0500 Received: from mail128.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.131]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4x9q-00047c-Fu for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:27:43 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: alexandru.petrescu@motorola.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-128.messagelabs.com!1168511261!2956252!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.188.136.8] Received: (qmail 28070 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 10:27:41 -0000 Received: from motgate8.mot.com (HELO motgate8.mot.com) (129.188.136.8) by server-9.tower-128.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 10:27:41 -0000 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com ([10.64.251.233]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motorola) with ESMTP id l0BARaZ7021902; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.161.201.117] (zfr01-2117.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.117]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l0BARYpx001827; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:27:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45A61115.7010407@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:27:33 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Carlson References: <20070104073921.NUWB18162.oaamta02sl.mx.bigpond.com@PC20005> <459D4D0D.2010806@motorola.com> <17821.24747.178330.936711@gargle.gargle.HOWL> In-Reply-To: <17821.24747.178330.936711@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: point-to-point links and ND (was: Review of draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis-09.txt) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org James Carlson wrote: > Alexandru Petrescu writes: >>>> Finally, link-layer addresses have a tight relationship with >>>> what goes in the last 64bits of an address. On ppp (and maybe >>>> others?) links there's no link-layer address but there's means >>>> to have something go into the last 64bits. So could we >>>> consider that IID to be a link-layer address. >>> => No we can't, the IID is in a completely different layer. The >>> fact that you can use an L2 address to generate the IID, does not >>> mean you can use the IID as an L2 address. >> Ok, I tend to think the same, too. But ppp gives an Interface ID >> and there's no other means in ppp to have an endpoint identifier. >> So the easiest way for ND to run over ppp would be to build some >> virtual link-layer headers with Interface IDs in it. All other ND >> mechanisms (multicast, DAD, etc) would run unmodified. > > I'm very much opposed to this idea. Those Interface IDs are not link > layer addresses. ND options including link layer addresses should > be added _only_ when link layer addresses exist on the underlying > media -- and they don't exist for point-to-point links. > > I fear changing this behavior to include Interface IDs instead of > link layer addresses will confuse and break existing implementations. > > Let's see... not that I've tried it. If a ppp peer negotiates an Interface ID and puts it in the Neighbour Cache attached to the ppp0 entry, won't break anything. When displaying the NC the entry simply won't show up empty. If same ppp peer declares that ppp0 interface nd-capable (instead of currently declared nd-non-capable), and builds a virtual ll header structure whose format is (src, dst on 64bits) and then declare some other constants for special ll multicast addresses then that ppp peer won't crash. The issue is what to declare on the other ppp peer. By existing ND implementations I assume it's meant ND over an ll-full (an interface with link-layer address). I think that as long as the ND/ptp enhancements are applied only on ll-less interfaces that can generate an IID then the other interfaces' implementations (eth, tun, etc) won't be affected. No? >> An "Interface ID" is exactly what ND needs on a ppp link. > > Disagree. Why does it need _any_ link layer address? Why should it > care? A main ND's goal is to resolve the IP address into a ll address, so if there's no ll address then no need of ND exchanges (especially no need of NS/NA). At which point it would be difficult to say that ND runs over ll-less addresses ok. I think. Alex -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 09:17:36 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50gb-0005VQ-Hs; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:13:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4m4w-0006m1-Vg for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:37:54 -0500 Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp ([131.112.32.132]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H4m4r-0002ji-Gw for ipv6@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:37:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 66718 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2007 22:56:24 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188039.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.1.188.39) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jan 2007 22:56:24 -0000 Message-ID: <45A56AB8.20206@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:37:44 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> In-Reply-To: <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:13:44 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf wrote: > This threat is probably another good reason for not allowing > multicast. Wrong. As I already stated reasons, there is no point not allowing broadcast. Masataka Ohta -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 09:31:11 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50wy-0004bY-MT; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:30:40 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50wx-0004bR-Bk for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:30:39 -0500 Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H50ws-0007lT-Ti for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:30:39 -0500 Received: from lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr (lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr [157.159.103.217]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298A42FF2B; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:30:26 +0100 (CET) From: Pars Mutaf To: Paul Vixie In-Reply-To: <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: INT Evry Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:30:26 +0100 Message-Id: <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-MCPCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-INT-MailScanner-From: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Thank you all for your comments! Alex and Julien: thanks for clarifications on 16ng. Stephane and Brian Carpenter: I used the term .local with no particular reason. If recent advances showed that it is unnecessary. That's OK for me. I'm not even sure if my proposal needs to be "local". I can also reach other subnets in theory (if my host has learned the list of neighboring subnets). I also take note of RFC4541. Thanks. But I still don't see why I would send a multicast query if I know the destination's unicast address. Sending the DNS query directly to the destination may be useful. For example, the host may have already resolved the destination's MAC address (through multicast). But the user is trying many different names... (for example). My question to Paul Vixie: On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 17:58 +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > > ... > > These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general > > as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach? > > > > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast. > > > > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder > > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address: > > > > link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local") > > > > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted > > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID. > > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known. > > you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that > matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. Is this an important limitation? (I'm asking the question) > and you'll have to cope with hash > collisions, however improbable they may be. Fortunately, there is no problem with that. If a given name-based address was accidentally configured the query will be silently dropped. > > 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name > > johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, > > instead of being multicast. > > > > Am I missing something? > > L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP. if your L2 does not > support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some kind > of distinguished destination address that operates a location brokerage for > other services. if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost > then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal. I have no problem with that. Thanks pars -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 11 09:41:01 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H516R-000249-TG; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H516P-00022z-Qc for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:25 -0500 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H516N-0000x6-JH for ipv6@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:25 -0500 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l0BEeK5N009193 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:20 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/NCO v8.1.1) with ESMTP id l0BEeKBA160660 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:20 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0BEeJ6G022576 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:19 -0500 Received: from cichlid (wecm-9-67-117-236.wecm.ibm.com [9.67.117.236]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l0BEeJHp022543; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:19 -0500 Received: from cichlid (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid (8.13.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id l0BEeB09018425; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:12 -0500 Message-Id: <200701111440.l0BEeB09018425@cichlid> To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr In-reply-to: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> Comments: In-reply-to Pars Mutaf message dated "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:38 +0100." Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:40:11 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "IP Version 6 Working Group $ipv6$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org Pars Mutaf