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3D""
I seek, above all, in the wandering
From which, thanks to=20= symmetry,
End of the comedy.
Of observation lying on the=20= ground
In stone waves and rock waters, far from day,
For any part=20= of them we can make out
In Florida, it's strawberry season=97
My=20= soul lies cracked; and when, in its despair,
Of observation lying on=20= the ground
In the dread circle hemmed by glaciers,
To pick up even=20= the quickening of wind
The face of a Quos ego),
Swaying in unison=20= beneath the snow,
shaded by live oaks and bottlebrush=20= trees
Suddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend,
Chose to walk out of=20= it, they'd have to pass
This third day of our January=20= thaw,
Escapees from the cold work of living,
I draw near to one of=20= them, the lowest,
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7BCA5.15AFD8A0-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jul 02 08:29:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5L1k-0004BO-11 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:29:12 -0400 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5L1c-0003YK-7r for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:29:12 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l62BuK3O028246 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 12:56:21 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l62BuKC9028245 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 12:56:20 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.23]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l62Btbxi028215 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 12:55:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from [172.16.10.250] (83-64-176-129.alpenstrasse.xdsl-line.inode.at [83.64.176.129]) by puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3266A2282A0 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:55:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4688E7C2.9000909@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:55:46 +0200 From: Michael Noisternig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 References: <46837118.8000504@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <46837118.8000504@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-SpamScore: sss, sss X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Dear draft authors, I am missing the following particular paragraph from my edits within section 3.1 (between the last and the but-last paragraph): > However, the end-points of a communication might not be under central > control (such as when browsing the public internet), and then it may not > be possible to rely on end-to-end security. ULE link security will then > provide protection against attacks on the weakest link within the > communication chain, i.e. the ULE broadcast link (see section 3.2). I think it is a case important enough to be outlined, i.e. a case where an "ordinary" end-user (compared to a company) has no possibility to enforce end-to-end security, yet he does not want "the whole world" to potentially see the data he receives (e.g. the web sites he visits). It demonstrates another reason for why ULE link layer security is desirable, IMO. Do you disagree? (The wording of cited paragraph should be reworked in part, though.) Michael Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > > Dear WG, > > The draft below has been uploaded to the I-D archives (and will be > published soon), please send any comments you may have to this list, > particularly on the new sections. > > Security requirements for the Unidirectional Lightweight Encapsulation > (ULE) protocol > http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/draft-ietf-ipdvb-sec-req-03.txt > > Best wishes, > > Gorry Fairhurst > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: ULE SEC REQ draft > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:33:00 +0100 > From: > To: > CC: , , > , > References: <1182944065.46824b4167bb0@webmail6.brad.ac.uk> > > > > Hi All, > > Please find attached the final version of the ULE-SEC-REQ drafts. > We have incorporated all comments and suggestions: > Here is the work history of the draft (v3): > > Working Group Draft 03 > o Fixed editorial mistakes and added some important changes as > pointed out by Gorry Fairhurst. > o Table 1 added in Section 6.2 to list the different security > techniques to mitigate the various possible network threats. > o Figure 2 modified to clearly explain the different interfaces > present in the framework. > o New Section 7 has been added. > o New Section 6 has been added. > o The previous sections 5 and 6 have been combined to section 5. > o Sections 3, 8 and 9 have been rearranged and updated with > comments and suggestions from Michael Noisternig from > University of Salzburg. > o The Authors and the Acknowledgments section have been updated. > > > If there are no more comments we would like Gorry to publish this. > > > Regards > Sunny > > *********************************************************** > Sunil Iyengar, > Research Fellow, Networks Group, > Centre For Communication And Systems Research(CCSR), > School of Electronics, Computing & Mathematics, > University Of Surrey, Guildford GU2 7XH, > Surrey, England, United Kingdom. > Office: +44 (0)1483 686008 > *********************************************************** From bothma@weingut-dahms.com Mon Jul 02 10:12:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5MdZ-00080v-4Y; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:12:21 -0400 Received: from [59.50.22.166] (helo=[59.50.22.166]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5MdY-0000XY-4m; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:12:21 -0400 Received: from [59.50.22.166] by mail.weingut-dahms.com; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 14:12:22 -0800 Message-ID: <01c7bcb3$021be960$a616323b@bothma> From: "Pearlie Pierre" To: Subject: We look forward to your success! 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Regarding this paragraph from your modifications. It was only removed because we were not very comfortable with the wordings. See Inline Quoting Michael Noisternig : > Dear draft authors, > > I am missing the following particular paragraph from my edits within > section 3.1 (between the last and the but-last paragraph): > > > However, the end-points of a communication might not be under central > > control (such as when browsing the public internet), and then it may not > > be possible to rely on end-to-end security. End-to-end security has nothing to do with central control. Only the two comunicating end parties are resposible for seting up any end-to-end security. So this sentance is quite misleading as we should be able to use end-to-end security withought any central control. > > ULE link security will then > > provide protection against attacks on the weakest link within the > > communication chain, i.e. the ULE broadcast link (see section 3.2). I am not sure if the ULE link would be the weakest link. Especially when data is sent over the interent (the case of wesbites like you mention) I would consider the fixed links to be vulnerable also. > > I think it is a case important enough to be outlined, i.e. a case where > an "ordinary" end-user (compared to a company) has no possibility to > enforce end-to-end security, yet he does not want "the whole world" to > potentially see the data he receives (e.g. the web sites he visits). > It demonstrates another reason for why ULE link layer security is > desirable, IMO. As discussed above, I also do not really see the point of only securing the ULE link when the interet link is unsecured. Securing only part of the link IMO will make the other link the weakest link. > Do you disagree? > > (The wording of cited paragraph should be reworked in part, though.) > > Michael Regards Prashant ========================================================== Dr Prashant Pillai Mobile and Satellite Communications Research Centre (MSCRC) School of Engineering, Design & Technology (EDT2) University of Bradford Bradford, West Yorkshire BD7 1DP. 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It was only removed because we > were not very comfortable with the wordings. See Inline I did not put much effort into the wordings because I had expected to get some feedback on that prior to publication. Sorry, I should have told so. :/ >>> However, the end-points of a communication might not be under central >>> control (such as when browsing the public internet), and then it may not >>> be possible to rely on end-to-end security. > > End-to-end security has nothing to do with central control. Only the two > comunicating end parties are resposible for seting up any end-to-end security. > So this sentance is quite misleading as we should be able to use end-to-end > security withought any central control. Ok, what I mean is that if the destination end-point is not under the same control as the source, i.e. does not have the same owner (as a person/company), then you are restricted to whatever security the destination offers you. If it does not offer any security, there is no way to enforce it. E.g., this is true for most of the web servers in the www. To repeat, in such case having security for the vulnerable (in terms of passive attacks) ULE broadcast link is very desirable. >>> ULE link security will then >>> provide protection against attacks on the weakest link within the >>> communication chain, i.e. the ULE broadcast link (see section 3.2). > > I am not sure if the ULE link would be the weakest link. Especially when data is > sent over the interent (the case of wesbites like you mention) I would consider > the fixed links to be vulnerable also. Sure, the other links are vulnerable, too, if you don't have end-to-end security. But compared to the ULE broadcast link wired links are much more secure. On the ULE broadcast link, all it takes an attacker is to switch his receiver into some kind of promiscious mode to derive passive attacks. To succeed in any kind of attack on a wired link of the Internet requires much more sophistication. That is why I said that the ULE link was the weakest link in the communication chain. (Yes, I do not like the wording myself, it was just to get the point.) >> I think it is a case important enough to be outlined, i.e. a case where >> an "ordinary" end-user (compared to a company) has no possibility to >> enforce end-to-end security, yet he does not want "the whole world" to >> potentially see the data he receives (e.g. the web sites he visits). >> It demonstrates another reason for why ULE link layer security is >> desirable, IMO. > > As discussed above, I also do not really see the point of only securing the ULE > link when the interet link is unsecured. Securing only part of the link IMO > will make the other link the weakest link. As explained above, it will make it quite harder to derive successful attacks. You'd have to tap specific wired links the data travels over, or get access to the routers in between. 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The reason being it is already = mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. IMO = this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I propose = we let it be as it is. If there are no further comments we are going to = submit this version for the last call.=20 Best Regards Sunny =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk on behalf of Michael Noisternig Sent: Fri 06/07/2007 13:54 To: Prashant Pillai Cc: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 =20 Hi Prashant, > Regarding this paragraph from your modifications. It was only removed = because we > were not very comfortable with the wordings. See Inline I did not put much effort into the wordings because I had expected to=20 get some feedback on that prior to publication. Sorry, I should have=20 told so. :/ >>> However, the end-points of a communication might not be under = central >>> control (such as when browsing the public internet), and then it may = not >>> be possible to rely on end-to-end security. >=20 > End-to-end security has nothing to do with central control. Only the = two > comunicating end parties are resposible for seting up any end-to-end = security. > So this sentance is quite misleading as we should be able to use = end-to-end > security withought any central control. Ok, what I mean is that if the destination end-point is not under the=20 same control as the source, i.e. does not have the same owner (as a=20 person/company), then you are restricted to whatever security the=20 destination offers you. If it does not offer any security, there is no=20 way to enforce it. E.g., this is true for most of the web servers in the = www. To repeat, in such case having security for the vulnerable (in terms of=20 passive attacks) ULE broadcast link is very desirable. >>> ULE link security will then >>> provide protection against attacks on the weakest link within the >>> communication chain, i.e. the ULE broadcast link (see section 3.2). >=20 > I am not sure if the ULE link would be the weakest link. Especially = when data is > sent over the interent (the case of wesbites like you mention) I would = consider > the fixed links to be vulnerable also. Sure, the other links are vulnerable, too, if you don't have end-to-end=20 security. But compared to the ULE broadcast link wired links are much=20 more secure. On the ULE broadcast link, all it takes an attacker is to=20 switch his receiver into some kind of promiscious mode to derive passive = attacks. To succeed in any kind of attack on a wired link of the=20 Internet requires much more sophistication. That is why I said that the=20 ULE link was the weakest link in the communication chain. (Yes, I do not = like the wording myself, it was just to get the point.) >> I think it is a case important enough to be outlined, i.e. a case = where >> an "ordinary" end-user (compared to a company) has no possibility to >> enforce end-to-end security, yet he does not want "the whole world" = to >> potentially see the data he receives (e.g. the web sites he visits). >> It demonstrates another reason for why ULE link layer security is >> desirable, IMO. >=20 > As discussed above, I also do not really see the point of only = securing the ULE > link when the interet link is unsecured. Securing only part of the = link IMO > will make the other link the weakest link. As explained above, it will make it quite harder to derive successful=20 attacks. You'd have to tap specific wired links the data travels over,=20 or get access to the routers in between. Best regards, Michael ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7C2FB.89AB5196 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03

Hi Michael and Prashant,
I Agree with Prashants view on this. The reason being it is already = mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. IMO = this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I propose = we let it be as it is. If there are no further comments we are going to = submit this version for the last call.


Best Regards
Sunny 





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk on behalf of Michael Noisternig
Sent: Fri 06/07/2007 13:54
To: Prashant Pillai
Cc: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03

Hi Prashant,

> Regarding this paragraph from your modifications. It was only = removed because we
> were not very comfortable with the wordings. See Inline

I did not put much effort into the wordings because I had expected = to
get some feedback on that prior to publication. Sorry, I should have
told so. :/

>>> However, the end-points of a communication might not be = under central
>>> control (such as when browsing the public internet), and = then it may not
>>> be possible to rely on end-to-end security.
>
> End-to-end security has nothing to do with central control. Only = the two
> comunicating end parties are resposible for seting up any = end-to-end security.
> So this sentance is quite misleading as we should be able to use = end-to-end
> security withought any central control.

Ok, what I mean is that if the destination end-point is not under = the
same control as the source, i.e. does not have the same owner (as a
person/company), then you are restricted to whatever security the
destination offers you. If it does not offer any security, there is = no
way to enforce it. E.g., this is true for most of the web servers in = the
www.

To repeat, in such case having security for the vulnerable (in terms = of
passive attacks) ULE broadcast link is very desirable.

>>> ULE link security will then
>>> provide protection against attacks on the weakest link = within the
>>> communication chain, i.e. the ULE broadcast link (see = section 3.2).
>
> I am not sure if the ULE link would be the weakest link. Especially = when data is
> sent over the interent (the case of wesbites like you mention) I = would consider
> the fixed links to be vulnerable also.

Sure, the other links are vulnerable, too, if you don't have = end-to-end
security. But compared to the ULE broadcast link wired links are = much
more secure. On the ULE broadcast link, all it takes an attacker is = to
switch his receiver into some kind of promiscious mode to derive = passive
attacks. To succeed in any kind of attack on a wired link of the
Internet requires much more sophistication. That is why I said that = the
ULE link was the weakest link in the communication chain. (Yes, I do = not
like the wording myself, it was just to get the point.)

>> I think it is a case important enough to be outlined, i.e. a = case where
>> an "ordinary" end-user (compared to a company) has no = possibility to
>> enforce end-to-end security, yet he does not want "the = whole world" to
>> potentially see the data he receives (e.g. the web sites he = visits).
>> It demonstrates another reason for why ULE link layer security = is
>> desirable, IMO.
>
> As discussed above, I also do not really see the point of only = securing the ULE
> link when the interet link is unsecured. Securing only part of the = link IMO
> will make the other link the weakest link.

As explained above, it will make it quite harder to derive = successful
attacks. You'd have to tap specific wired links the data travels = over,
or get access to the routers in between.

Best regards,
Michael

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http://www.periast.net/?qyjrhfkjha ------------0C9ADA67F67829-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jul 10 11:26:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Hbe-0007tC-U2 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:26:26 -0400 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Hbe-0008AK-ML for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:26:26 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AF3QnQ011385 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:03:26 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6AF3QE1011384 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:03:26 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.23]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AF1HhK011310 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:01:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from [172.16.10.250] (83-64-176-129.alpenstrasse.xdsl-line.inode.at [83.64.176.129]) by puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACD12284FF for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:01:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46939F49.6040303@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:01:29 +0200 From: Michael Noisternig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 References: <1183635846.468cd9863c53e@webmail7.brad.ac.uk> <468E3B8C.9000601@cosy.sbg.ac.at> <018160DBE8D48349A0CABF4424C3DC210175C31C@EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <018160DBE8D48349A0CABF4424C3DC210175C31C@EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-SpamScore: s, s X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Hi, > I Agree with Prashants view on this. The reason being it is already > mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. IMO Right. But my point was not to state once more that the wireless ULE broadcast link is more vulnerable but to present a showcase where there is no way to enforce end-to-end security, and thus to point out more explicitely that a solution for securing the ULE link only is very desirable. This is in contrast to the current draft which only says "...if authentication of the end-point i.e. the IP Sources is required, or users are concerned about loss of confidentiality, integrity or authenticity of their communication data, they will have to employ end-to-end network security mechanisms like IPSec or Transport Layer Security (TLS)." > this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I propose > we let it be as it is. If there are no further comments we are going to > submit this version for the last call. > > > Best Regards > Sunny From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jul 10 12:13:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8ILN-0005CA-2L for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:13:41 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8IL7-0000oN-Ka for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:13:40 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AFo1c0013462 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:50:01 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6AFo0Qf013461 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:50:00 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.207.5] (gorry-mac.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.5]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AFlcao013375 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:47:39 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4693AA1B.7080303@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:47:39 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 References: <1183635846.468cd9863c53e@webmail7.brad.ac.uk> <468E3B8C.9000601@cosy.sbg.ac.at> <018160DBE8D48349A0CABF4424C3DC210175C31C@EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk> <46939F49.6040303@cosy.sbg.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <46939F49.6040303@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 I'm not sure what the issue is here. The paragraph that was cited form I-D seems to be speaking about authentication, which ultimately becomes a host-to-host (or security gateway-to-security gateway, etc). Your text seems to touch on something different: If you are suggesting motivating the advantage of securing the "weakest" link (which at least for eaves-dropping, could be the broadcast link), then this seems a reasonable thing to point to in the introduction perhaps? Gorry Michael Noisternig wrote: > Hi, > >> I Agree with Prashants view on this. The reason being it is already >> mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. IMO > > > Right. But my point was not to state once more that the wireless ULE > broadcast link is more vulnerable but to present a showcase where there > is no way to enforce end-to-end security, and thus to point out more > explicitely that a solution for securing the ULE link only is very > desirable. > This is in contrast to the current draft which only says > "...if authentication of the end-point i.e. the IP Sources is required, > or users are concerned about loss of confidentiality, integrity > or authenticity of their communication data, they will have to > employ end-to-end network security mechanisms like IPSec or > Transport Layer Security (TLS)." > >> this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I >> propose we let it be as it is. If there are no further comments we are >> going to submit this version for the last call. >> >> >> Best Regards >> Sunny > > > From shelly@4kooldesign.com Tue Jul 10 14:06:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8K6P-0008Ds-2t; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:06:21 -0400 Received: from [88.230.158.223] (helo=[88.230.158.223]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8K6N-0004a9-Rw; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:06:20 -0400 Received: from [88.230.158.223] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:06:07 -0200 Message-ID: <01c7c31c$fd1bb2e0$df9ee658@shelly> From: "Felix Sams" To: Subject: No more being shy of your manhood in the showers after gym or in public toilets. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7C336.2268EAE0-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jul 10 16:08:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8M0h-00007E-7M for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:08:35 -0400 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8M0c-0005t0-Gu for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:08:35 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AJgjp6023263 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:42:45 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6AJgjsK023262 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:42:45 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from nab.org (foxtrot.nab.org [209.116.240.194]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6AJeSjm023144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from ([199.29.3.25]) by maildc2.nab.org with ESMTP id 4028857.21916589; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:40:03 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:40:02 -0400 Message-ID: <33CB4DEADE8C734CAF59FA0B47E14C17031F36C0@morse.NAB.ORG> In-Reply-To: <4693AA1B.7080303@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 Thread-Index: AcfDDhTlzb2BK0h8SQqct3plGvvVHwAG12zA From: "Allison, Art" To: X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id l6AJgjpB023259 Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Is this envisioned attack against the satellite receiver? If so, what about the rest of the transmitted stream? That is so why is just this TS packet data that needs to be so protected... Seem a bigger (out of scope?) issue... On the other hand, if you are referring to other wireless 'broadcast' directly to individual sites...and you didn't see my previous contribution about that threat...perhaps I need to provide it again. _____________ Art Allison Director, Advanced Engineering Science & Technology National Association of Broadcasters 1771 N Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20036 Phone: 202.429.5418 Fax: 202.777.4981 aallison@nab.org The National Association of Broadcasters is a trade association that advocates on behalf of more than 8,300 free, local radio and television stations and also broadcast networks before Congress, the Federal Communications Commission and the Courts. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk [mailto:owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gorry Fairhurst Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 AM To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 I'm not sure what the issue is here. The paragraph that was cited form I-D seems to be speaking about authentication, which ultimately becomes a host-to-host (or security gateway-to-security gateway, etc). Your text seems to touch on something different: If you are suggesting motivating the advantage of securing the "weakest" link (which at least for eaves-dropping, could be the broadcast link), then this seems a reasonable thing to point to in the introduction perhaps? Gorry Michael Noisternig wrote: > Hi, > >> I Agree with Prashants view on this. The reason being it is already >> mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. >> IMO > > > Right. But my point was not to state once more that the wireless ULE > broadcast link is more vulnerable but to present a showcase where > there is no way to enforce end-to-end security, and thus to point out > more explicitely that a solution for securing the ULE link only is > very desirable. > This is in contrast to the current draft which only says "...if > authentication of the end-point i.e. the IP Sources is required, > or users are concerned about loss of confidentiality, integrity > or authenticity of their communication data, they will have to > employ end-to-end network security mechanisms like IPSec or > Transport Layer Security (TLS)." > >> this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I >> propose we let it be as it is. If there are no further comments we >> are going to submit this version for the last call. >> >> >> Best Regards >> Sunny > > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jul 11 06:17:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8ZGd-0006vB-AH for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:17:55 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8ZGc-00044H-Eb for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:17:55 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6B9o8we025255 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:50:08 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6B9o86v025253 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:50:08 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [10.10.10.213] (fgrpf.plus.com [212.159.18.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6B9mEMu025153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:48:16 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:48:15 +0100 Subject: Implementation feedback request to WG meeting at IETF-69 From: Gorry Fairhurst To: "ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk" CC: Gorry Fairhurst , Martin Stiemerling Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Implementation feedback request to WG meeting at IETF-69 Thread-Index: AcfDoJoL2JUEYC+TEdyDFwAKlc/qXg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Dear Implementors (or potential implementors) of IPDVB Specifications... The IETF IPDVB WG has an agenda item that will allow implementors to briefly announce their activity, plans, and current issues to the IPDVB Working Group. It is always good to get good feedback on "running code", and would be delighted to see a few slides from implementors at the next meeting. If you are implementing any IPDVB specifications (or I-Ds), or plan to start implementing in 2007, please do contact the Chair of the IPDVB WG. We recognise that the people who write protocol specifications are not necessarily the same as those called to implement them. We can therfore arrange a proxy to present for you if you are not attending the meeting. We must receive any contributions of slides before 9:00am (PST), Friday 21st July 2007. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst & Martin Stiemerling (IPDVB WG Chair, IPDVB Secretary) From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jul 11 11:26:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8e5b-0006QF-TU for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:26:51 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8e5O-0003Yq-GS for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:26:51 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6BF1cWM008317 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:39 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6BF1cmL008316 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:38 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.23]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6BF0Sqm008271 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:00:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from [172.16.10.250] (83-64-176-129.alpenstrasse.xdsl-line.inode.at [83.64.176.129]) by puma.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22CD2282AE for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:00:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4694F09B.7060603@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:00:43 +0200 From: Michael Noisternig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: ULE SEC REQ draft rev -03 References: <1183635846.468cd9863c53e@webmail7.brad.ac.uk> <468E3B8C.9000601@cosy.sbg.ac.at> <018160DBE8D48349A0CABF4424C3DC210175C31C@EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk> <46939F49.6040303@cosy.sbg.ac.at> <4693AA1B.7080303@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4693AA1B.7080303@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-SpamScore: s, s X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > I'm not sure what the issue is here. The paragraph that was cited form > I-D seems to be speaking about authentication, which ultimately becomes > a host-to-host (or security gateway-to-security gateway, etc). > > Your text seems to touch on something different: If you are suggesting > motivating the advantage of securing the "weakest" link (which at least > for eaves-dropping, could be the broadcast link), then this seems a > reasonable thing to point to in the introduction perhaps? Well, about, actually the paragraphs I'm refering to seem to do exactly that, trying to motivate securing the ULE link. What I'm missing in (between) those paragraphs is that _not_ having end-to-end security is not always simply a matter of choice ("...for users who choose not to implement end-to-end security mechanisms.") but it may be impossible to enforce it, so users would like to have at least _some_ security (confidentiality), namely for the "weakest" link, which would be the ULE link. [This is what I was trying to say with the paragraph I was missing from my edits, btw.] I am not sure if I can make myself clearer. I think it should be in there but if other people think different I will not be pushing this anymore. Regards, Michael > > Gorry > > > Michael Noisternig wrote: >> Hi, >> >>> I Agree with Prashants view on this. The reason being it is already >>> mentioned in the draft that wired links are difficult to intercept. IMO >> >> >> Right. But my point was not to state once more that the wireless ULE >> broadcast link is more vulnerable but to present a showcase where >> there is no way to enforce end-to-end security, and thus to point out >> more explicitely that a solution for securing the ULE link only is >> very desirable. >> This is in contrast to the current draft which only says >> "...if authentication of the end-point i.e. the IP Sources is required, >> or users are concerned about loss of confidentiality, integrity >> or authenticity of their communication data, they will have to >> employ end-to-end network security mechanisms like IPSec or >> Transport Layer Security (TLS)." >> >>> this case is very confusing without adding much to the draft. I >>> propose we let it be as it is. 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On-line association of chemists

------------D3C256777EA1B01B-- From soft4pc.com@flamenconetwork.com Thu Jul 19 17:42:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBdlo-0006Q0-6q for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:42:48 -0400 Received: from rrcs-24-242-189-102.sw.biz.rr.com ([24.242.189.102] helo=sqyjfx) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBdln-00063w-CE for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:42:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c7ca4d$68081080$0100007f@xvrflk> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:42:47 -0700 From: "Randy Green" To: Subject: Avoid enhancement pills MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C7CA4D.68081080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a0ecb232550b38fd41a3cf6a312fbabc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C7CA4D.68081080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7CA4D.68081080" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7CA4D.68081080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach. http://www.walspare.com/ ----- Brenna noticed the surprise in She wasnt left guessing why Qu You will stop frowning at me t She had to wait until he let g ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7CA4D.68081080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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Gu1JkfCsuTKEsyiGAYyNP5RPwo+mxWsutjsYgHmIoekw282ZiRxngDWNQEBRlc947r/TTNar 42C/4y2xjWNNv+tOmMqMrEuPwrPClGUgvHeI5/qo8z8/TnHR0foW8v8APkzvvxjhP7+n9ZF1 3nR/6rrrem366byp8z7983/8tY+H6j//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C7CA4D.68081080-- From paxadarvebev@adarve.com Thu Jul 19 22:44:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBiTc-0000ni-Ba; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:44:20 -0400 Received: from [88.228.230.195] (helo=[88.228.230.195]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBiTY-0005U9-Qf; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:44:20 -0400 Received: from [88.228.230.195] by draco.hospedando.com; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:44:14 -0200 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:44:14 -0200 From: "Karen Sims" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.9) Business Reply-To: paxadarvebev@adarve.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <136705255.00767053724192@adarve.com> To: i-d-announce@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Greatest artworks from top artists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------E1DAE167C42C401" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 ------------E1DAE167C42C401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GorgeousArt is the one stop store for the greatest pictures from biggest Russian artists. These artists have been exhibited in many and many art exhibitions worldwide, and now you can buy all their well-known artwork at the lowest prices anywhere! All works of art are original works of oil, and are only exclusive for our shop. You may find not only panic prices here, along with it we also offer free shipping and many other bonuses to our buyers. Well, for great prices on excellent Russian masterpieces, come to GorgeousArt, where we reward allegiance with striking artwork at panic prices. Check it out just now! http://meragent.com/ We are approved by VISA and GeoTrust therefore we provide you with efficient and trustworthy buying. ------------E1DAE167C42C401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GorgeousArt is the one stop store for the greatest pictures from biggest Russian artists.
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We are approved by VISA and GeoTrust therefore we provide you with efficient and trustworthy buying. ------------E1DAE167C42C401-- From renaebandagsoq@aebandag.com Sat Jul 21 11:17:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICGiT-00076y-P7; Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:17:57 -0400 Received: from [88.234.25.103] (helo=[88.234.25.103]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICGiR-0005EG-ER; Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:17:57 -0400 Received: from [88.234.25.103] by aebandag.com; Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:17:09 -0100 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:17:09 -0100 From: "Kerry Costello" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.01) Business Reply-To: renaebandagsoq@aebandag.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <082012993.37494524115187@aebandag.com> To: i-d-announce@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Greatest artworks from top artists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------97B80CC59E8213D3" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 ------------97B80CC59E8213D3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GorgeousArt is the one-stop store for the greatest pictures from biggest Russian artists. All of them have been exhibited in a great number of art exhibitions all over the world, and now you have a chance to purchase nearly all their celebrated works of art at the lowest prices around! All paintings are original oil work, and are only exclusive to our shop. Start and find not only lowest prices here, along with it we also offer free shipping and many other gifts to our clients. Thus for surprising prices on beautiful Russian paintings, check out GorgeousArt, where we reward allegiance with striking artwork at panic prices. Check it right now! http://naturalnew.com/ We are accredited by VISA and GeoTrust consequently we provide efficient and trustworthy purchase. ------------97B80CC59E8213D3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GorgeousArt is the one-stop store for the greatest pictures from biggest Russian artists.
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We are ratified by VISA and GeoTrust consequently we provide effectual and dependable buying. ------------86767DA4F05E219-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 09:24:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDgqP-0004BK-NI for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:24:01 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDgqP-0003Nw-1p for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:24:01 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6PCnmPP005052 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:49:48 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6PCnm67005051 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:49:48 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.204.42] (ra-gorry.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.204.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6PCl0OO004951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:47:03 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Extension draft - new rev From: Gorry Fairhurst To: Prashant Pillai CC: "H.Cruickshank@surrey.ac.uk" , , "ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Security Extension draft - new rev Thread-Index: AcfOueUGI1uUuDqtEdyEBQAKlc/qXg== In-Reply-To: <1185362255.46a7314f345f5@webmail6.brad.ac.uk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Thanks Prashant, I think it is valuable to see this when the WG will be discussing the final draft of the requirements. I have uploaded this I-D to the WG web pages at: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ipdvb/ids/draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-03.txt I would like to invite discussion on this draft on the WG list, and at the WG meeting on Thursday, Best wishes, Gorry On 25/7/07 06:17, "Prashant Pillai" wrote: > Hi Gorry, > > Please find attached the new revision of the Security header extension draft. > I > have modified it to be in line with the latest security requirements draft. I > have checked for nits. > > Please submit it on our behalf. Thanks. > > Regards > Prashant > > ========================================================== > Dr Prashant Pillai > Mobile and Satellite Communications Research Centre (MSCRC) > School of Engineering, Design & Technology (EDT2) > University of Bradford > Bradford, West Yorkshire BD7 1DP. > Tel: +44(0)1274 233720 > Email: p.pillai@bradford.ac.uk > ========================================================== > ------------------------------------------------------------ > This mail sent through IMP: http://webmail.brad.ac.uk > To report misuse from this email address forward the message > and full headers to misuse@bradford.ac.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 11:56:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDjE2-0000Rf-7q for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:56:34 -0400 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDjE1-0002Qc-JO for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:56:34 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6PFREin010877 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:27:14 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6PFRE2f010876 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:27:14 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [130.129.17.235] (dhcp-11eb.ietf69.org [130.129.17.235]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6PFNoZR010764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:23:52 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:23:49 -0500 Subject: Remote participation in IPDVB WG, ETF-69 on Thur July 26 15:10 CDT (20:10 UTC) From: Gorry Fairhurst To: "ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Remote participation in IPDVB WG, ETF-69 on Thur July 26 15:10 CDT (20:10 UTC) Thread-Index: AcfOz8ygCzvkYjrDEdyEBQAKlc/qXg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 THURSDAY, July 26, 2007 1510-1610 Afternoon Session II CDT is 5 hours behind of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) E.g. In the UK this is currently 6 hours different. As in previous WG meetings, we welcome remote participants who are not in the meeting location. If you wish to participate remotely, here is some collected information. The slides and agenda are available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/69/materials.html *** The WG audio stream (Ch7) is at: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf697.m3u The audio streaming is described at: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ *** Please *DO* join the WG jabber room if you wish to participate remotely. For ipdvb the room is at: ipdvb@jabber.ietf.org Details of how to use the jabber room are at: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/text_conf.html The logs will be available at: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/ietf-logs/ *** Copies of all working group related ID's are available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/?search_job_owner=&search_group_acron ym=&search_status_id=&search_cur_state=&sub_state_id=&search_filename=ipdvb& search_rfcnumber=&search_area_acronym=&search_button=SEARCH If you have difficulties do let the Jabber room know, and we'll try to help. I *AM* still looking for a jabber watcher and a note-taker for this meeting. Best wishes, Gorry From lagannamaurovij@annamauro.com Wed Jul 25 15:54:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDmwk-0007zx-Fx; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:54:58 -0400 Received: from dam187.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.23.12.187]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDmwj-0007xO-TY; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:54:58 -0400 Received: from [83.23.12.187] by mail.annamauro.com; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:54:55 -0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:54:55 -0100 From: "Lavern Estes" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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Alfonso From john@dogws.com Sat Jul 28 00:20:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEdnT-00028P-GH for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:20:55 -0400 Received: from [63.99.218.193] (helo=[63.99.218.193]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEdnS-00084B-UZ for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:20:55 -0400 Received: from [63.99.218.193] by smtp.secureserver.net; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:21:47 +0600 Message-ID: <01c354bf$c2a36240$c1da633f@john> From: "Eunice Logan" To: Subject: Our price $89 Photoshop CS3 Extended Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:21:47 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 photoshop cs3 extended $89 Save: $909.05 http://oemlinksoft.com From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jul 30 06:02:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFS57-0006so-NN for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:02:29 -0400 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFS56-0007wo-Q9 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:02:29 -0400 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6U9Wo4C000823 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:32:50 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l6U9Wo0K000822 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:32:50 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.204.42] (ra-gorry.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.204.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l6U9TGlV000515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:29:41 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:25:04 +0200 Subject: Draft IPDVB Meeting minutes from IETF-69 From: Gorry Fairhurst To: "ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk" CC: "ipdvb-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Draft IPDVB Meeting minutes from IETF-69 Thread-Index: AcfRsZTY01zgjT2kEdy7UQAKlc/qXg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-SpamScore: s X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 The provisional notes from the meeting in Chicago are included below. I'd like to thank Carsten Borman who provided the notes from which these were prepared. Please check these notes and send and comments (or questions) to the list. Best wishes Gorry Fairhurst. (ipdvb WG Chair) --- IP over Digital Video Broadcast (IPDVB) WG IETF-69 26th July 2007 Internet Area ipdvb WG Chair: Gorry Fairhurst gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk ipdvb Secretary: Martin Stiemerling jabber: ipdvb@jabber.ietf.org Archive: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ipdvb/archive Note-Taker for IETF-69: Carsten Borman 1. Agenda Bashing (5 minutes) - Chair A recently revised individual draft on ULE security extensions was taken at the end of the meeting. 2. Document Status (5 minutes) - Chair Outstanding documents (see slides) to be forwarded for WGLC soon. * Milestones. The AR protocol is the only open work item with no active drafts. * Documents in Last Call - None. * Documents in IESG/AD Review - None. * Documents in RFC Editor Queue: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-06.txt * Published RFCs - None in this period. 3. ULE Security Requirements (10 minutes) - Chair proxy for Authors http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-sec-req-03.txt (see slides) The authors had received comments from the list and discussed these. The current draft includes all comments and the authors suggest this was ready for WGLC. This document had been sent to ETSI BSM for comment (no comments currently received). This and the next draft were also sent to DVB-Forum for comment, and will be tabled at the GBS meeting in August 2007, where they are invited to provide comments to this WG. The chair asked if the meeting had comments on the current draft? (no) The WG expects to move this to a WGLC after the DVB meeting. 4. Extension Formats for ULE & GSE Encapsulations (10 minutes) - Gorry Fairhurst http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-ext-03.txt (see slides) Draft is now at -03: The latest draft mainly fixes text. There are some minor fixes to be applied in a new rev. Rev -03 introduced a table with a recommended ordering for the types of extensions. The IANA registry is totally flat, though, and no specific ordering is required. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? Carsten: What is the recommendation trying to do? Gorry: It is intended to provide implementers with an expectation so that they can build an optimized path (e.g., header prediction). Carsten: There is a danger that implementors may focus on testing only the recommended ordering and not the other orderings, resulting in interoperability issues. Gorry: True. Some headers are already limited to specific positions in the chain, but stacks should allow others to be ordered as per the RFCs. Chair asked if the meeting had comments on the current draft? (no) The WG also expects to move this to a WGLC after the DVB meeting. 5. ULE Implementation Status (5 minutes) - Chair/Various (see slides) Ulegene (Bernhard Collini-Nocker, Christian Praehauser) The framework supports MPE, ULE, and has running code for the extension headers discussed previously. This may in future be published open-source. Question: When will the open-source status be decided? Christian Praehauser (via Jabber): Soon, we expect in August. 6. Security Extension header for ULE - Prashant Pillai This was first presented some time ago to the WG, but was parked while the authors worked on the requirements draft. It was revived this week. It is an individual submission with no Charter item currently against this work. The draft defines only the framing, as a security building block (it does not define keying procedures or key management; it does provide proposals though - appropriate to a range of systems.) This draft is aligned with requirements rev -03. Gorry encourages feedback to the authors, especially when the WG commenting on the requirements draft. 7. Other related drafts: MIB for DVB-RCS (5 minutes) - Chair proxy for Authors http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-combes-ipdvb-mib-rcs-01.txt This is an individual submission. It was presented at IETF-68 in Prague by Stephane Combes on behalf of Satlabs. It is not intended to become a WG draft, but is put forward as a potential informational document. Comments are welcome via the list. Mark Townsley (AD): Is this the draft with issues with boilerplate? Gorry: Yes, SatLabs wish to maintain edit control. Mark Townsley: After the meeting is closed we will find advice on the boilerplate and IPR issues. Are there other issues? Gorry: I do not believe we have other issues with this draft. What are the procedures for progressing the draft? Mark Townsley: We can still ask the MIB doctors for a review, and that would be appropriate. 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