From accounts@regions.com Thu Feb 01 01:42:52 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCVem-0003iX-5d; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:42:52 -0500 Received: from h-67-102-241-205.mclnva23.covad.net ([67.102.241.205] helo=hughes2k3.thehughesgroup.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCVek-0003Aj-Hh; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:42:52 -0500 Received: from User ([72.54.78.226]) by hughes2k3.thehughesgroup.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:47:41 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Regions Bank" Subject: Protect your RegionsNet® against phishing scams by activate Anti-Theft Program Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:42:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2007 06:47:42.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF261B90:01C745CC] X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Regions Bank

MEMBER NOTICE:

Currently we are trying to upgrade RegionsNet® Online Accounts for security measures. Anti-Theft Program will allow us to verify your identity from your computer, at home, at work, anywhere. When you access your account we'll know it's you. With our new Anti-Theft Program you are helping not only yourself but also Regions bank. We apreciate your support and understanding our banking method authentications.

Businesses are continually concerned about the ever increasing sophistication in the types of frauds that are being committed today. Many of these frauds begin with the theft of private information. Business Authentication allows us to provide additional protection and enables you to have further control over the type of information or transactions accessed by your employees.

Please Note: Regions Bank will never ask for your Personal Identification Number via e-mail or phone.

Activate Anti-Theft Program and confirm the authentication procedure by following the link below.

https://secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user?a=

2007 © Regions Bank - RegionsNet® Online Member FDIC. Equal Housing Lender
.
.
From accounts@regions.com Thu Feb 01 01:42:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCVeo-0003j2-3g; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:42:54 -0500 Received: from h-67-102-241-205.mclnva23.covad.net ([67.102.241.205] helo=hughes2k3.thehughesgroup.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCVem-0003BS-ID; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:42:53 -0500 Received: from User ([72.54.78.226]) by hughes2k3.thehughesgroup.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:47:41 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Regions Bank" Subject: Protect your RegionsNet® against phishing scams by activate Anti-Theft Program Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:42:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2007 06:47:42.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF261B90:01C745CC] X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Regions Bank

MEMBER NOTICE:

Currently we are trying to upgrade RegionsNet® Online Accounts for security measures. Anti-Theft Program will allow us to verify your identity from your computer, at home, at work, anywhere. When you access your account we'll know it's you. With our new Anti-Theft Program you are helping not only yourself but also Regions bank. We apreciate your support and understanding our banking method authentications.

Businesses are continually concerned about the ever increasing sophistication in the types of frauds that are being committed today. Many of these frauds begin with the theft of private information. Business Authentication allows us to provide additional protection and enables you to have further control over the type of information or transactions accessed by your employees.

Please Note: Regions Bank will never ask for your Personal Identification Number via e-mail or phone.

Activate Anti-Theft Program and confirm the authentication procedure by following the link below.

https://secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user?a=

2007 © Regions Bank - RegionsNet® Online Member FDIC. Equal Housing Lender
.
.
From ambulating@radiobum.net Thu Feb 01 03:25:26 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCXG2-0002yl-2l for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:25:26 -0500 Received: from pa-76-1-46-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net ([76.1.46.220] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCXFz-0007J5-Hh for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:25:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c745d9$b88fcc80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Derek Dudley" To: Subject: Office 2OO7 & Acrobat 8 Pro 79$ today Feb 01 11:10:00 MSK 2007 at Marty's PCsoft Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:25:15 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.150 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a All programms on speclal from Marty's hotsoft for 2007. Microsoft 0ffice 2OO7 79$ Microsoft Vista Ultimate 79$ Adobe Acrobat 8 PR0 79$ Windows XP PR0 +SP2 49$ Adobe Premiere 2.O 59$ Macromedia Studio 8 99$ Office2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$ Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier 69$ Microsoft Money 2OO7 39$ Adobe Photoshop CS2 9.O 69$ Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 129$ Corel Grafix Suite X3 59$ Adobe Creative Suite CS2 149$ Adobe Illustrator CS2 59$ Microsoft Office XP PR0 49$ Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$ McAfee Internet Sec. 7 29$ Norton Antivirus Corp. 29$ D0WNL0AD lnstantly http://ekioemi.net/ Mac Speclals: Adobe Acrobat PR0 7 69$ Adobe After Effects 49$ Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium 149$ Ableton Live 5.0.1 49$ Adobe Photoshop CS 49$ http://ekioemi.net/-software-for-mac-.php 1 bag chocolate chips 1/4 cup water Girl Scout Mint Cookies Baby Ruth Bars golden brown. 1/4 lb Ground beef 12 Each Soft corn tortillas 1/2 teaspoon white pepper 2 tablespoons butter 1 T. red wine vinegar General Tso's Chicken If you want to speed up the process, put the candy in the Applebee's Oriental Chicken Salad Cook macaroni noodles in a big pot of water for 12 to 15 min Makes 12 to 15 cookies. Fish Stock, and whisk to remove any flour lumps. Bring the liquid to a KFC Crispy Strips es, or until it is golden brown. You should be sure to stir 4. Roll as thin as possible on unoiled cookie sheet - not more than 1/8" 1 small box Jello with sugar (any flavor) 1/4 teaspoon pepper until al dente stirring often. After cooking, drain ziti well, but Beat eggs; add pineapple juice, water, sugar, ginger, vanilla and melted 1/4 tsp crushed celery seed 5. Top with 3 Oz. mozzarella cheese it combines. After the dough is created let it rest to rise for an brown sugar in a medium saucepan over medium/high heat. a 2-quart Mason jar. 1 heaping cup ice 2 tablespoons milk Slice the onions crosswise and separate into rings. Almond Joy Bars cooked, 5 to 6 min..do not overcook. Set aside in refrigerator until 1 tsp. black pepper 1 quart Chicken broth 2 lbs. frozen hashbrowns incorporated. Wrap the dough in plastic wrap and chill for at least flour, remaining sugars, remaining cinnamon and walnuts. Ponderosa's Steak Sauce remaining crumb mixture. Pat firmly to make top 1/2 cup all-purpose flour 6 each White onions 2 1/2 c Vanilla ice cream ====================================================== Microwave for 5 seconds longer. Makes about 12 servings. 4 large, ripe strawberries hat Tricon uses sells the potato salad that way. Combine all ingredients even. 1 cup prunessalt and pepper not when preparing the mix for storage) Cajun Spice Blend: 3 8-ounce packages cream cheese, softened 1 tablespoon Jack Daniels Whiskey 1 Sesame-seed Bun Remove about 1" of petals from center of onion. Dip onion in seasoned 1 pk. Dry yeast 1. Preheat the oven to 350F. 2. Beat the butter and both sugars in a large mixing bowl until light into dry mix. 5-Drop into hot oil, skin-side-down and brown 3 to 4 1/8 teaspoon Baking Powder 1/4 teas. salt ====================================================== Topping: Dimple dough with fingers. Place on top the following mixture: then turn down heat and cook to your desired doneness. tender, approximately 5 minutes. Add to stockpot along with 2 cups Pancake mix into the milk until fully moistened. Roll the moistened chi 1 egg, beaten 1/4 lb butter Spicy peanut sauce: McDonald's Sweet and Sour Sauce 1 tablespoon Mix 1 small jar pimento, drained filled 1/3 of the way up with hot water. Bake for 50-60 minutes or until o drain for 5 minutes From sleepwalkerRoot's@runforfun.co.uk Wed Feb 07 14:11:00 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HEsC4-0005xM-PD; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:11:00 -0500 Received: from adsl-62-167-30-92.adslplus.ch ([62.167.30.92]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HEsC3-0007Os-89; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:11:00 -0500 Received: from mx1.freeola.net (HELO runforfun.co.uk) ([62.249.192.200]) by p1i.runforfun.co.uk with ESMTP id ; Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:11:07 -0060 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: 9VFZFTQV1K8+2HWKMRVNH4QP8CEDCMZTCCQ77BL4 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.13,662,6898281337"; d="scan'208"; a="26251452:V3DC69624988" Received: from 1ghh9.cerragro.com.br ([101.32.162.195]) by y9fg6d.web-wizards.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.07 (built Jun 18 2007)) with ESMTP id for ipfix-owner@ietf.org; Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:11:07 -0060 (IST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:11:07 -0060 From: "Parag Mcdwell" To: Subject: sleepwalkerRoot's wrote: Did you ... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 At the time HPGI is preparing for the gold extraction. A lot of experts are working on the field and are making preparations for efficient and active working. “We are delighted with the acquisition of Orion and we feel the property has excellent potential to produce results that will exceed our expectations,” commented Ted Pomerleau, President and Chairman of Hemisphere Gold. As you know the State Department also noted that Suriname's efforts in recent years to liberalize economic policy created new possibilities for U.S. exports and investments. More over in the situation of changeable global economy more countries start to buy gold for their reserves.But what is important is that a start has been made in buying in the market. New information from HPGI will be at an early date. Also company are starting to hire staff for mine gold region. Underplay is our style (HPGI) hakhuc275guioeldelo1udw 6E6B7D7473776E793377756E327C6A456A6B746C AHE9A77ZJX844KI1WVL2P6L2PSSGQV7JDO8K2P48E From reductionssectional@trefo.ro Thu Feb 08 12:40:30 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFDG2-0004d6-43; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:40:30 -0500 Received: from [196.218.149.22] (helo=host-196.218.22.149.tedata.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFDFy-0005HG-Fo; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:40:30 -0500 Received: from 89.120.230.210 (HELO mail.trefo.ro) by ietf.org with (8.39.3/8.04.1) ESMTP id zmr7u4foyt3m0h for ip4@ietf.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:40:06 +0480 From: "Nick V Madraswala" To: Subject: Funds: The $20 billion tax time bomb Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:40:06 +0480 Message-ID: <01c74bfb$fdb090b0$6c822ecf@reductionssectional> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: Aca6Qp5x9mjch389el6oq6f5o6092g5== X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Looking to put some spring in your step. Look no further. Get ready for your big rise? Quantex Capital Corp Symbol: QCPC Current Price: Around $0.21 Short Term Target: $0.60 Long Term Target: $1.00 Look at Recent news Thursday February 7 - Watch this one break out. Quantex Capital Corporation (OTC:QCPC) informed the community Thursday that Samlex America has successfully completed a pilot project in South America which could possibly lead to establishing a commercial presence there. The development which is a collaborative effort between the Brazilian government, utility companies and solar power supply vendors, purchased USD $250,000 worth of solar power converters for people in isolated areas. CALL UP YOUR B R O K E R Today! fwvsrtelp7ij6f3maun5kmrk9y343v4cv9tfdq4kxy1ptakkx33el44o 6E396E79337775456A6B746C P2MQCN3LQ4TCDMM0147XC12WX2EGDEIQSN16M66QAAS From bellyachedanger's@rz-online.de Thu Feb 08 17:57:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFID8-00043f-42; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:57:50 -0500 Received: from cpe-74-73-136-159.nyc.res.rr.com ([74.73.136.159] helo=DDJNJX21.nyc.rr.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFID5-0001FJ-C1; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:57:50 -0500 Received: from mx02.rz-online.net (HELO rz-online.de) ([212.7.160.14]) by 3yvcum.rz-online.de with ESMTP id ; Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:57:54 +0300 Received: from n6r02.stelth.ru ([197.141.216.133]) by u2.steno.geo.unifi.it (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.07 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTP id for ipcdn-owner@ietf.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:57:54 +0300 (IST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:57:54 +0300 From: "Orchid Mahl" To: Subject: Simpson ordered to stop spending Message-ID: <90UVN10WM5E_LMVJR_JZV94M@rz-online.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Good news from QCPC give you the real alternative to hit the jackpot. QCPC is a company with far-sighted purposes. Company strategy is to diversify within the power supply marketplace and build strong, niche oriented operations around the globe. QCPC take a long-term view of business, focusing on growth and overall evolution of our subsidiaries over a number of years. Company has chosen one of solar power producer. As you know oil prices are rising higer and higer! A great amount of electricity generating plants uses oil-products. May be your domestic electrical power supplier or heat register works by using oil-products. Modern technologies of solar extraction also are very effective in bad light or sun and the accumulating energy can be saved inside special batteries. That is why we can talk about full energy-independent house. In 21 century of high technologies we can't imagine town life without energy. Many states in the USA has enough reserve of solar power to generate needed electric energy. More over the President realizes the important role of this policy and allocated $1 Billion to Renewable Energy. U.S. Department of Energy FY 08 budget includes $179 million for the President's Initiative. Particularly Solar America Initiative - $148 million; QCPC is at the right time and place now. They have chosen promising line of activity for your share investments and we negotiated a contract with Samlex America, which has manufactured and distributed power supply products to more than 90 countries worldwide since 1991. Pathfinding product designs, strict quality control, and responsible after sales service provide customers with high quality power conversion products at extremely competitive prices. Because of this news the prices of the QCPC stocks are about to fly up. QCPC's financial condition is steady now. An overall market and economic conditions are also can better affect the performance of the QCPC's shares. From flapperscreamer's@revahertz.com Fri Feb 09 13:59:33 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFay5-0005mw-So; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:59:33 -0500 Received: from adsl-89-217-136-54.adslplus.ch ([89.217.136.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFay3-00056e-64; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:59:33 -0500 Received: from 63.251.140.137 (HELO j.mx.revahertz.com) by ietf.org with (8.92.4/8.43.0) ESMTP id zrw4zqxelkpvdcz for iont@ietf.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:59:41 -0060 From: "Makayla Miguel" To: Subject: Pengfei wrote: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:59:41 -0060 Message-ID: <01c74c7c$744f7ad0$6c822ecf@flapperscreamer's> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Thread-Index: Aca6Qa8yxkium3hfj1st238cs9mqnt== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Investor Alert! Good stock MHII.OB(MARSHAL HOLDINGS INC) especially for businessmen. MHII.OB Examined stock has a huge potential and growth. Control the news about this great stock on broker web-site Make an order. It is very essential you grab MARSHAL HOLDINGS INC on Friday 02.09.07 Purchasing this great stock you will not miss your target. The fact is that Marshall Holdings International Inc. (OTC BB:MHII.OB - News) announced that revenues for the Third Quarter 2006 were eight times higher than in the same period for 2005, with an increase of $1.4 million in revenue. We {LETprovide,give,offer} you the best stock and prices: Now last: 0.018 Growth: + 5.83% Coming up... Today prognosis -> 0.025 (+ 47 %) Monday -> 0.035 (+ 105 %) We have brought such news to you as WEXE 0.55 -> 0.7 HSBC 0.07->0.12 AUNI 0.165 -> 0.28 You know absolutly witch ones are real what not but this are real one. Campaign just started more news will be soon. 6E73456A6B746C74796E793377 caesir From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Feb 14 11:25:14 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMwU-0003VX-6r for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:25:14 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMwS-0002CJ-Mi for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:25:14 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1EFmNWl024639 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:48:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1EFmNJH024638 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:48:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from www.erg.abdn.ac.uk (blake.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.210.30]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1EFmC0V024616 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:48:12 GMT Received: from 212.159.18.54 (SquirrelMail authenticated user gorry); by www.erg.abdn.ac.uk with HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:48:12 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <50622.212.159.18.54.1171468092.squirrel@212.159.18.54> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:48:12 -0000 (GMT) Subject: New ipdvb WG Secretary: Martin Stiemerling From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab I'm most pleased to welcome Martin Stiemerling , whom the IESG have appointed as the Working group Secretary for the ipdvb WG. Martin is known to many of us as a presenter and minute-taker at many IETF ipdvb WG meetings. In his new job as the Secretary he will continue these tasks, but will importantly serve as an alternative point of contact on WG procedures and queries about working group documents. He can also act as a "document shepherd" for ipdvb documents submitted to the IESG. If you have any questions, comments, isssues, please do contact either Martin or Me and we will be pleased to help. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst ipdvb WG Chair) ---- The Status for the ipdvb WG is recorded at: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ipdvb/ From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Feb 14 13:19:36 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHOjA-0000k8-Ts for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:19:36 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHOj8-0005Vq-DP for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:19:36 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1EHta4H006237 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:55:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1EHtaQ6006232 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:55:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from www.erg.abdn.ac.uk (blake.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.210.30]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1EHtQCj006211 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:55:26 GMT Received: from 212.159.18.54 (SquirrelMail authenticated user gorry); by www.erg.abdn.ac.uk with HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:55:26 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <50670.212.159.18.54.1171475726.squirrel@212.159.18.54> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:55:26 -0000 (GMT) Subject: 68th IETF - Cutoff Dates Reminder From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Registration Cutoff Dates: March 9, Friday - Early-Bird registration and payment cut-off at 12:00 noon ET (17:00 UTC/GMT) March 17, Saturday - Final Pre-Registration and Pre-Payment cut-off at 17:00 ET (21:00 UTC/GMT) You can register for the IETF meeting and social event at: http://www3.ietf.org/meetings/68-IETF.html Internet Draft Cutoff Dates: February 19, Monday - Working Group Chair approval for initial document (Version -00) submissions appreciated by 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT) February 26, Monday - Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) submission by 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT) March 5, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT) Only 32 days left until the Prague IETF Meeting! From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Feb 16 06:10:57 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HI0zR-0002yB-8M for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:10:57 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HI0zP-0003BY-Su for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:10:57 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1GApb7X021360 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:51:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1GApbnR021359 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:51:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.207.152] (dhcp-207-152.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.152]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1GAogOr021310; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:50:42 GMT Message-ID: <45D58D39.8040404@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:53:45 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk CC: "S.Iyengar" Subject: Comments on Security requirements/framework for GSE/ULE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f A little whiel ago, I received some oral comments (via the telephone from Knut Eckstein) that I would like to relay to the authors/group concerning the ULE-SEC requirements draft: * Section 6 would benefit from some diagrams. * Please make a proposal for a framework, to indicate how the requirements could be satisfied, and different entities involved. * Network availability seems to be an important driver for this work - although these words are may be not used - as a part of this securing the control plane is very important. More about this would be useful (e.g. using ULE extensions and ULEsec in combination and use in GSE). I am bcc'ing this to the Kunt, with the hope that he may be able to add more detail and clarity - via the ipdvb mailing list (or perhaps via a phone call to Sunni who is currently the document editor). Gorry From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Feb 16 06:52:15 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HI1dP-000363-FA for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:52:15 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HI1dJ-0003LO-8x for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:52:15 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1GBY4wm024758 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:34:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1GBY4w8024757 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:34:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.207.152] (dhcp-207-152.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.152]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1GBXjh9024727; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:33:46 GMT Message-ID: <45D59752.2070706@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:36:50 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk, Gorry Fairhurst CC: "S.Iyengar" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Comments on Security requirements/framework for GSE/ULE] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: a069a8e8835d39ce36e425c148267a7b To ipdvb list: Thanks Knut, your detialed comemnts are much appreciated!!! I'll forward this to the list (you are of couyrse welcome to join the list, but your comments are much appreciated in whatever form). List, aurthors, please find his message enclosed, Gorry -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Comments on Security requirements/framework for GSE/ULE Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:12:53 +0100 From: Knut.Eckstein@esa.int To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk Dear Gorry, I had sent you the following comments earlier as well... I can send them to the list as well, I guess I would have to join the list first before. Right now the message is html-formatted, but I'm wondering whether the list might be openly hostile to html-emails :-) I sent this message originally on 23 Jan... -------- Dear Gorry, as discussed recently on the phone, here are my comments on subject document: I. General security analysis comments. The analysis is well structured in general, however I would like to mention the following points: 1. Threat analysis context: I think it would add value to the analysis if one considered a broader context which describes the end-to-end overall communication scenario employed by the user: Often times, the user has to secure his communications beyond the satellite link, because he is using terrestrial public network links in addition to the satellite link. Therefore, if the user is concerned about loss of confidentiality and loss of integrity of his communication data, he will employ end-to-end network security mechanisms like IPSec or TLS. A gov/mil user may be forced by regulations to employ specific measures of that type. Only if satellite link is used to e.g. directly join branch offices to a HQ, ULE Sec would be the sole provider of confidentiality and integrity and for gov/mil users this scenario further narrows to circumstances where they are not required to employ nationally approved crypto equipment (this is assuming that ULE security mechanisms are not nationally approved, so users would have to run approved cryptos on top even in the case of the satcom link being the only public transmission segment. All of this means that in many cases the confidentiality and integrity of the user data will already be taken care of. So ULE security measures would focus on either providing traffic flow confidentiality for user data that has already been encrypted or user data encryption for users who don't care about confidentiality/integrity in their other network segments, i.e. because they (rightly or not) assume those links to be fiber optical. So I would argue that in Section 4, traffic flow confidentiality should be listed as the first and formost requirement. Section 8 "Security Considerations" briefly touches upon these points by stating that link level encryption is often used to "supplement" L3/L4 techniques, but for me this is "too late in the document" and the notion of "supplementing" should be expanded. Of those users who already encrypt/sign their data, only a subset will be interested in protecting against traffic flow confidentiality. Another (overlapping) subset of users will have (strong) availability requirements on top of requirements for confidentiality and integrity. For these people, the first paragraph on page 6 "(In existing MPEG-2 transmission networks, these messages are broadcasted in the clear (no encryption or integrity checks). The integrity of these messages is important for correct working of the ULE network. However, securing these messages is out of scope for ULE security, because these messages are not normally encapsulated with the ULE method.") is crucially important to understand, because it explains that their availability requirement wrt ULE transmissions cannot be met by the proposed ULE security mechanisms. In the same light, I think that the core statement of the following paragraph is not entirely correct: "Securing the ULE source and receivers eliminates the need to consider security issues regarding the remaining system components, such as multiplexers, re-multiplexers and modulators." The devices mentioned could be attacked (in-band or out-of-band, especially if they have an IP-based management interface in addition to their MPEG TS interfaces) with the intent to deny service through malicious reconfiguration, but also to potentially have an "easier go" at listening to or even modifying/inserting MPEG TS messages, usually using debugging functionality provided by the device, i.e. threaten their confidentiality/integrity in case cryptographic ULE countermeasures are limited or do not exist. The existing threat analysis from my point of view focuses a bit too much on performing these attacks via the air interface, which is not necessarily the only way to get to the MPEG TS... In summary, I think availability is an often sought security requirement next to integrity and confidentiality and should thus receive some more coverage in this spec. E.g list "protection against loss of service through malicious reconfiguration" as a requirement in section 4 and discuss inhowfar it can be met by ULE-based security mechanisms. 2. Active threats discussion in section 3.2. Denial of Service is listed as the last bullet point in the active threats portion of 3.2 which is thereafter concluded with the following: "The active threats mentioned above are major security concerns for the Internet community. The defence gainst such attacks is data integrity using cryptographic techniques and sequence numbers [BELLOVIN]." I think the majority of denial of service attacks cannot be countered using cryptography and sequence numbers. 3. I found it quite hard to review this draft while not being a non-ULE/MPEG specialist. The reader is assumed to have a lot of detailed knowledge of MPE vs ULE to understand the relatively short statements in sections 6.1 and 6.2 e.g. "Encryption of the MPE MAC address is not permitted in such systems. Also, I was confused by two statements on page 7 which for me contradicted each other: Network devices may re-number the PID values associated with one or more TS Logical Channels (e.g. ULE Streams) to prevent clashes at a multiplexer between input streams with the same PID carried on different input multiplexes." While this and preceding text at the bottom of page 6 seem to indicate that one cannot rely on the PID to identify a certain network node, later on the same page it says: "However there is only one valid source of data for each MPEG-2 Elementary Stream, bound to a PID value. This observation could simplify the requirement for authentication of the source of a ULE Stream". 4. Active threat scenarios: For case 2 it is mentioned that the MPEG transmission operator may not be aware of such an attack, for case 3 it is stated that he will probably detect such an attack. Why then does section 4 recommend intrusion detection as a security measure for case 3 but not for case 2? 5. Section 6 among others discusses the potential to hide the ULE receiver identity to allow for traffic flow confidentiality even beyond the OSI layer 3 headers. But implementing this to my understanding may have consequences which should be discussed, e.g. a common key must be used so that every receiver can first decrypt and then see whether the packet is really intended to be processed by him. This in turn could simplify denial-of-service attacks. II. Editorial comments: 1. The last three paragraphs of section 3.1 no longer focus on the section title "system components" but provide an initial attack assessment ('an attacker that is able to modify'), an initial countermeasure discussion ('one method to provide security is to...', etc.) 2. In section 3.3 (Threat scenarios), "hijacking" is not a well defined term, the authors probably want to express the attacker's ability to "conduct active attacks", to stay with the terminology established so far. Typo "active actives" instead of "active attacks". 3. Section 4 is titled "Security requirements for IP" but the bullets contain/discuss both requirements ('data confidentiality', 'protection against replay attacks') as well as technical security mechanisms ('ULE source authentication is required'). Ideally security requirements should be discussed first and then followed by the security services/mechanisms chosen to satisfy the requirements. 'Layer 2 ULE Receiver authentication' could need a bit more detail, e.g. is it intended to be receiver to receiver or receiver to hub, one-directional or bi-directional authentication? Lastly, why is the section title and some of the terminology (e.g. 'IP addresses') specific to IP, if ULE can encapsulate IP as well as other network protocols? 4. Section 6.2 on providing security at the encapsulation layer lists only advantages, not a single disadvantage :-)) Since the section ends with "This method does not preclude the use of IPsec at L3 (or TLS [RFC4346] at L4)." I would suggest mentioning that using L3 end-to-end security would partially deny the advantage listed just above (use of PEP, compression etc), since those techniques could only be applied to TCP packets bearing a TCP-encapsulated IPsec packet exchange, but not the TCP packets of the original applications, which in particular inhibits compression. Best regards, Knut -- Dr. K. Eckstein, Telecommunication System Security Engineer ESA/TEC-ETC, P.O. Box 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk ZH, Netherlands Tel: +31 71 565 8894 Gorry Fairhurst wrote on 16/02/2007 11:53:45: > A little whiel ago, I received some oral comments (via the telephone > from Knut Eckstein) that I would like to relay to the authors/group > concerning the ULE-SEC requirements draft: > * Section 6 would benefit from some diagrams. > * Please make a proposal for a framework, to indicate how the > requirements could be satisfied, and different entities involved. > * Network availability seems to be an important driver for this work - > although these words are may be not used - as a part of this securing > the control plane is very important. More about this would be useful > (e.g. using ULE extensions and ULEsec in combination and use in GSE). > I am bcc'ing this to the Kunt, with the hope that he may be able to add > more detail and clarity - via the ipdvb mailing list (or perhaps via a > phone call to Sunni who is currently the document editor). > Gorry From clapton@dangerlink.com Tue Feb 20 15:46:25 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HJbsW-00026b-8f; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:46:24 -0500 Received: from [81.169.229.204] (helo=domain-relay.mspring.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HJbsQ-0002DW-Pr; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:46:24 -0500 Received: from 87.120.16.6 (HELO mail.dangerlink.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (K=38AEC19E+ .A)2+) id 7X/1K:-.3Q1-0-U+ for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:46:19 -0180 Message-ID: <01c75530$2c700b00$6c822ecf@clapton> From: "Ivan Finley" To: Subject: Microsoft Office 2007 ready to download Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:46:19 -0180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75549.51BD4300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 872695ea777a517bf5717e5acc69f8be This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75549.51BD4300 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C75549.51BD4300" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C75549.51BD4300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Snow haze gleams like sand.In a single floral stroke,Green lilac buds appea= r that won't surviveThis third day of our January thaw,"Now it's my turn to= sing!"It's snowing, it's returning to a townand the Splendid Splinter. 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if others have any comments or ideas... Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field." All thoughts are welcome! Best wishes, Gorry --- Timestamp Extension Header The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. Possible uses of this extension include: * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in figure XX below. 0 7 15 23 31 +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ | time stamp LO | Type | +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits. The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 05:56:25 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM00P-0000iI-0V for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:56:25 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM00M-0002Dr-EU for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:56:24 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RAfcbE025437 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:41:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1RAfbVa025436 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:41:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (zeus.iit.demokritos.gr [143.233.226.2]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RAfBfc025409 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:41:11 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5F031E7E for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:41:05 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at iit.demokritos.gr Received: from zeus.iit.demokritos.gr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zeus.iit.demokritos.gr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dgAVcnO-3aX for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:41:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from [143.233.227.106] (telcom-143-233-227-106.iit.demokritos.gr [143.233.227.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC77631B82 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:41:04 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:40:53 +0200 From: Georgios Gardikis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-6 (X11/20050513) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e It seems quite a good idea. We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite handy. Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference. George ---------- Dr. Georgios Gardikis Associate Researcher NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications Athens 153 10, Greece Tel: +30 210 650 3108 Fax: +30 210 653 2175 Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > > I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for > inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. > > I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible > timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if > others have any comments or ideas... > > Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... > "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates > the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when > the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field." > > All thoughts are welcome! > > Best wishes, > > Gorry > > > --- > > > Timestamp Extension Header > > The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and > measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of > the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful > for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling > provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator > to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension > may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. > > Possible uses of this extension include: > > * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, > * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) > * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, > * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). > > > >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header > Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< > > The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned > H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in > figure XX below. > > 0 7 15 23 31 > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > | time stamp LO | Type | > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > > > > This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). > Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 > indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. > > The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp > LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore > indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal > Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the > 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified > resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused > least-significant bits. > > The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type > of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further > Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. > > This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, > or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this > extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. > > > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 05:58:55 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM02p-0004Cg-Cn for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:58:55 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM02o-0002fh-S9 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:58:55 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RAk2Bm025916 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:46:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1RAk2wD025915 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:46:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.207.151] (dhcp-207-151.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.151]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RAjsAK025895 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:45:54 GMT Message-ID: <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:45:54 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> In-Reply-To: <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution? Gorry Georgios Gardikis wrote: > It seems quite a good idea. > We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter > over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based > methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite > handy. > Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new > PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference. > > George > > ---------- > > Dr. Georgios Gardikis > Associate Researcher > NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications > Athens 153 10, Greece > Tel: +30 210 650 3108 > Fax: +30 210 653 2175 > > > > Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > >> >> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for >> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. >> >> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible >> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if >> others have any comments or ideas... >> >> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... >> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates >> the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when >> the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field." >> >> All thoughts are welcome! >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Gorry >> >> >> --- >> >> >> Timestamp Extension Header >> >> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and >> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of >> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful >> for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling >> provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator >> to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension >> may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. >> >> Possible uses of this extension include: >> >> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, >> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) >> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, >> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). >> >> >> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header >> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< >> >> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned >> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in >> figure XX below. >> >> 0 7 15 23 31 >> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >> | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | >> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >> | time stamp LO | Type | >> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >> >> >> >> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). >> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 >> indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. >> >> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp >> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore >> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal >> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the >> 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified >> resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused >> least-significant bits. >> >> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type >> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further >> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. >> >> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, >> or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this >> extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. >> >> >> >> > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 07:41:44 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM1eK-0004xZ-Sm for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:41:44 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM1eJ-0000g8-8L for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:41:44 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RCRPBA005487 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:27:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1RCRPRj005486 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:27:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from smtpout14-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout14-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [68.178.232.8]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id l1RCRBii005462 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:27:12 GMT Received: (qmail 4562 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2007 12:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gem-wbe19.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net) (64.202.189.174) by smtpout14-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2007 12:27:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 25845 invoked by uid 99); 27 Feb 2007 12:27:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:27:11 -0700 From: Marie-Jose Montpetit Subject: RE: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Message-ID: <20070227052711.ca5566c7162b3cfcb6c200079b757bd6.0b765fc184.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII User-Agent: Web-Based Email 4.9.18 X-Originating-IP: 129.188.69.129 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 825e642946eda55cd9bc654a36dab8c2 I agree and yes we need to get a time stamp higher in the stack for (as mentioned below) delay and jitter but could also for some time sensitive applications. /mjm > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - > Comments? > From: Georgios Gardikis > Date: Tue, February 27, 2007 5:40 am > To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk > > It seems quite a good idea. > We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter > over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based > methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite > handy. > Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new > PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference. > > George > > ---------- > > Dr. Georgios Gardikis > Associate Researcher > NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications > Athens 153 10, Greece > Tel: +30 210 650 3108 > Fax: +30 210 653 2175 > > > > Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > > > > > I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for > > inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. > > > > I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible > > timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if > > others have any comments or ideas... > > > > Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... > > "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates > > the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when > > the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field." > > > > All thoughts are welcome! > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Gorry > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Timestamp Extension Header > > > > The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and > > measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of > > the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful > > for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling > > provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator > > to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension > > may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. > > > > Possible uses of this extension include: > > > > * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, > > * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) > > * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, > > * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). > > > > > > >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header > > Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< > > > > The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned > > H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in > > figure XX below. > > > > 0 7 15 23 31 > > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > > | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | > > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > > | time stamp LO | Type | > > +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ > > > > > > > > This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). > > Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 > > indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. > > > > The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp > > LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore > > indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal > > Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the > > 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified > > resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused > > least-significant bits. > > > > The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type > > of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further > > Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. > > > > This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, > > or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this > > extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. > > > > > > > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 08:04:45 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM20b-0002rP-6d for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:04:45 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM20Z-0003XZ-GL for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:04:45 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RCdNc7006558 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:39:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1RCdNC5006557 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:39:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (zeus.iit.demokritos.gr [143.233.226.2]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RCd8Wd006517 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:39:09 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1968232109 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:39:04 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at iit.demokritos.gr Received: from zeus.iit.demokritos.gr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zeus.iit.demokritos.gr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1UGUxnqOrlm for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:39:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from [143.233.227.106] (telcom-143-233-227-106.iit.demokritos.gr [143.233.227.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by zeus.iit.demokritos.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21539320BF for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:39:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:38:51 +0200 From: Georgios Gardikis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-6 (X11/20050513) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR jitter allowed is 500 nsec. The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an incremental counter than a distance from midnight). Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be more accurate. George Dr. Georgios Gardikis Associate Researcher NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications Athens 153 10, Greece Tel: +30 210 650 3108 Fax: +30 210 653 2175 Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need > for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution? > > Gorry > > Georgios Gardikis wrote: > >> It seems quite a good idea. >> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter >> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based >> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be >> quite handy. >> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a >> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock >> reference. >> >> George >> >> ---------- >> >> Dr. Georgios Gardikis >> Associate Researcher >> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications >> Athens 153 10, Greece >> Tel: +30 210 650 3108 >> Fax: +30 210 653 2175 >> >> >> >> Gorry Fairhurst wrote: >> >>> >>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for >>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. >>> >>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible >>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if >>> others have any comments or ideas... >>> >>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... >>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore >>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal >>> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the >>> 32-bit field." >>> >>> All thoughts are welcome! >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Gorry >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Timestamp Extension Header >>> >>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and >>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of >>> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly >>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the >>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an >>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. >>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. >>> >>> Possible uses of this extension include: >>> >>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, >>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) >>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, >>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). >>> >>> >>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header >>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< >>> >>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned >>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in >>> figure XX below. >>> >>> 0 7 15 23 31 >>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>> | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | >>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>> | time stamp LO | Type | >>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>> >>> >>> >>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). >>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 >>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. >>> >>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp >>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore >>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in >>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, >>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert >>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and >>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits. >>> >>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type >>> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further >>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. >>> >>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not >>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY >>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 11:04:46 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM4oo-0002CI-Jt for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:04:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM4oo-0007VS-1n for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:04:46 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RFWGmK021928 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:32:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1RFWGuH021927 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:32:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from [139.133.207.151] (dhcp-207-151.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.151]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1RFW6YG021909 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:32:06 GMT Message-ID: <45E44EF7.8090501@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:32:07 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> In-Reply-To: <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 0770535483960d190d4a0d020e7060bd So... For Packet performance tests over links at 100's Mbps, perhaps microsecond accuracy would be sufficient? For a PCR/NCR we're speaking of regenerating high-stability clocks. Finer resolution may be good (as in the existing NCR/PCR), but then it is important to also provide rules for placement in the transmission frames (as Ulrik mentioned). I'm not against a higher-resolution (a 64-bit version????). Should we separate these two functions? or do we need to look at something that covers both? Gorry Georgios Gardikis wrote: > The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR > jitter allowed is 500 nsec. > The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an > incremental counter than a distance from midnight). > Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be > more accurate. > > George > > Dr. Georgios Gardikis > Associate Researcher > NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications > Athens 153 10, Greece > Tel: +30 210 650 3108 > Fax: +30 210 653 2175 > > > > Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > >> Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need >> for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution? >> >> Gorry >> >> Georgios Gardikis wrote: >> >>> It seems quite a good idea. >>> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter >>> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based >>> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be >>> quite handy. >>> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a >>> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock >>> reference. >>> >>> George >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis >>> Associate Researcher >>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications >>> Athens 153 10, Greece >>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108 >>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175 >>> >>> >>> >>> Gorry Fairhurst wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for >>>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. >>>> >>>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible >>>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if >>>> others have any comments or ideas... >>>> >>>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... >>>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore >>>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal >>>> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the >>>> 32-bit field." >>>> >>>> All thoughts are welcome! >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Gorry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> >>>> Timestamp Extension Header >>>> >>>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and >>>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of >>>> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly >>>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the >>>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an >>>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. >>>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. >>>> >>>> Possible uses of this extension include: >>>> >>>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, >>>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) >>>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, >>>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header >>>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< >>>> >>>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned >>>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in >>>> figure XX below. >>>> >>>> 0 7 15 23 31 >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> | time stamp LO | Type | >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). >>>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 >>>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. >>>> >>>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp >>>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore >>>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in >>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, >>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert >>>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and >>>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits. >>>> >>>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type >>>> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further >>>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. >>>> >>>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not >>>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY >>>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From andchan@ky1n.net Tue Feb 27 17:46:08 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMAIN-0004DV-UC; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:55:40 -0500 Received: from dynamic-acs-24-154-226-145.zoominternet.net ([24.154.226.145] helo=your-ze8cxvr8tt.zoominternet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HM9qe-0005Xt-I2; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:27:04 -0500 Received: from 63.238.179.185 (HELO ky1n.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (RNJ.4>;4 X):7) id 7598YK-::./23-UH for ippm-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:31:43 +0300 Message-ID: <01c75ab6$acf98590$6c822ecf@andchan> From: "Gina Coates" To: Subject: Upgrade or OEM Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:31:43 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75A8C.C4237D90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4963.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3f2cf88677bfbdeff30feb2c80e2257d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75A8C.C4237D90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C75A8C.C4237D90" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C75A8C.C4237D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When Arctic winds crack down from CanadaWind, sleet. The branches sway,Chos= e to walk out of it, they'd have to passSet on that tomb in the eternal nig= ht;Set on that tomb in the eternal night;And he is swathed in ever-petrifie= d dread;with visors. Their brave recreational vehiclesand the numbed yards = will go back undercover.Whiteness, those pediments that riseIX. After the G= reat Northern ExpeditionWind, sleet. The branches sway,Calling me to you wi= th wild gesturingsSwaying in unison beneath the snow,Of Boyg of Normandy . = .X. The British Attack on the ArcticOf too much truth to do much more tha= n lieto matter, for the flushed boys are muscularLooms in the air, delibera= te and slow,He terrifies the Vast, he seems so wild; ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C75A8C.C4237D90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
When Arctic winds crack down from Canada
Wind, sleet. The branches = sway,
Chose to walk out of it, they'd have to pass
Set on that tomb i= n the eternal night;
Set on that tomb in the eternal night;
And he is= swathed in ever-petrified dread;
with visors. Their brave recreational = vehicles
and the numbed yards will go back undercover.
Whiteness, tho= se pediments that rise
IX. After the Great Northern Expedition
Wind, = sleet. The branches sway,
Calling me to you with wild gesturings
Sway= ing in unison beneath the snow,
Of Boyg of Normandy . . .
X. The Brit= ish Attack on the Arctic
Of too much truth to do much more than lie
t= o matter, for the flushed boys are muscular
Looms in the air, deliberate= and slow,
He terrifies the Vast, he seems so wild;
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jf3xcr9m4J8V+ctM+PWn/17wT+j987///v8/AAagAA4gARagAR4gAiagAi4gAzagAz4gBEagBE4g BVYgEUUAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75A8C.C4237D90-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 20:38:52 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMDmO-0007NS-7O for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:38:52 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMDmI-0004Pb-HI for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:38:52 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1S1Bxnp010286 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:11:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1S1BxVh010285 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:11:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mail.jmn.net.id (ns2.jmn.net.id [202.169.224.4]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1S1BK0F010245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:11:41 GMT Received: (qmail 7477 invoked by uid 510); 28 Feb 2007 08:11:17 +0700 Received: from 202.169.226.33 by semur.jmn.net.id (envelope-from , uid 509) with qmail-scanner-D0N0 (clamdscan: 0.88.7/2414. spamassassin: 3.1.7. perlscan: D0N0. Clear:RC:1(202.169.226.33):. Processed in 0.090149 secs); 28 Feb 2007 01:11:17 -0000 TuKaNG01-ScAn-JMN-Mail-From: johanfirdi@jmn.net.id via semur.jmn.net.id TuKaNG01-ScAn-JMN: D0N0 (Clear:RC:1(202.169.226.33):. Processed in 0.090149 secs Process 7467) Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.52.233?) (johan@jmn.net.id@202.169.226.33) by mail.jmn.net.id with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 08:11:16 +0700 Message-ID: <45E4D6B6.3060101@jmn.net.id> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:11:18 +0700 From: johanfirdi User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> In-Reply-To: <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No, No Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb Hi Georgios, how do u calculate PCR number come to37 nsec ?. and maximum allowed is 500 nsec. Do u have paper for this ?. Thanks Johan Georgios Gardikis wrote: > The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR > jitter allowed is 500 nsec. > The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an > incremental counter than a distance from midnight). > Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be > more accurate. > > George > > Dr. Georgios Gardikis > Associate Researcher > NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications > Athens 153 10, Greece > Tel: +30 210 650 3108 > Fax: +30 210 653 2175 > > > > Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > >> Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need >> for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution? >> >> Gorry >> >> Georgios Gardikis wrote: >> >>> It seems quite a good idea. >>> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter >>> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based >>> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be >>> quite handy. >>> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a >>> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock >>> reference. >>> >>> George >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis >>> Associate Researcher >>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications >>> Athens 153 10, Greece >>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108 >>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175 >>> >>> >>> >>> Gorry Fairhurst wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for >>>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft. >>>> >>>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible >>>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if >>>> others have any comments or ideas... >>>> >>>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ... >>>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore >>>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight >>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, >>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field." >>>> >>>> All thoughts are welcome! >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Gorry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> >>>> Timestamp Extension Header >>>> >>>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and >>>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications >>>> of the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly >>>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the >>>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an >>>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. >>>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever. >>>> >>>> Possible uses of this extension include: >>>> >>>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel, >>>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender) >>>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link, >>>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header >>>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<< >>>> >>>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned >>>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in >>>> figure XX below. >>>> >>>> 0 7 15 23 31 >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> | 0x03 |H-Type = 0xTBD | time stamp HI | >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> | time stamp LO | Type | >>>> +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5). >>>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 >>>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B plus a Type field. >>>> >>>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp >>>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore >>>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in >>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, >>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert >>>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and >>>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits. >>>> >>>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the >>>> type of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further >>>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4. >>>> >>>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not >>>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY >>>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Feb 28 04:00:54 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMKgA-00042d-CL for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:00:54 -0500 Received: from [2001:630:241:204:203:baff:fe9a:8c9b] (helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMKg7-0001qk-Rk for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:00:54 -0500 Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1S8con8013680 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:38:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.12.2/Submit) id l1S8codN013679 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:38:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.56]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l1S8cQvs013658 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:38:29 GMT Received: by dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix, from userid 102) id C8AC294635; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:38:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from [141.201.2.162] (zander.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.162]) by dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2799462F for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:38:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <45E53F69.4050101@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:38:01 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Klaus_W=FCrflinger?= Organization: University of Salzburg User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments? References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E4D6B6.3060101@jmn.net.id> In-Reply-To: <45E4D6B6.3060101@jmn.net.id> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4, No, No X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id l1S8con8013680 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Johan, PCR is defined in ISO/IEC 13818-1 to be 27MHz =3D> 1/27MHz ~ 37ns. PCR jitter limits are standardised in ETSI TR 101290. ETSI standards are available for free download at www.etsi.org Regards, Klaus johanfirdi wrote: > Hi Georgios, >=20 > how do u calculate PCR number come to37 nsec ?. and maximum allowed is > 500 nsec. > Do u have paper for this ?. > Thanks >=20 > Johan >=20 > Georgios Gardikis wrote: >> The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR >> jitter allowed is 500 nsec. >> The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an >> incremental counter than a distance from midnight). >> Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be >> more accurate. >> >> George >> >> Dr. Georgios Gardikis >> Associate Researcher >> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications >> Athens 153 10, Greece >> Tel: +30 210 650 3108 >> Fax: +30 210 653 2175 >> >> >> --=20 Klaus W=FCrflinger Multimedia Communications Group Dept. of Computer Sciences Paris Lodron University Salzburg Jakob-Haringer-Str. 2 5020 Salzburg, Austria T: (+43)662/8044-6332 F: (+43)662/8044-172 E: kwuerfl@cosy.sbg.ac.at