Subject: Rationale for public, non-subscribable mailing lists

From: Florian Weimer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:29:42 +0200

I've recently tried to subscribe to the SECDIR list.  Apparently, this
list is public (it's archived on the web), but one cannot subscribe to
it.

The question is: Why would anyone configure things this way?  It's
really, really odd.

(It was suggested to me that I posted something to the SECDIR list,
that's why I tried to subscribe to it first.  It's not that I care
very much about this particular mailing list.  I'm just curious about
the phenomenon in general.)

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 08:58:41 +1200

> the phenomenon in general.)

Because IETF teams should operate in public view as much as possible,
and particularly teams whose main job is document review. But by
simple logic, only team *members* will actually be on the list.

I agree, it occasionally leads to list moderation issues.

    Brian

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From: Florian Weimer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:53:38 +0200

> simple logic, only team *members* will actually be on the list.

Okay, you're using Mailman to administrate team membership.  Let me
say that I think this is a bit bizarre, but it's some sort of
technical reason.  (Other organizations keep team rosters and
mailinglist membership separate.)

Thanks for the explanation.

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From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:51:08 +0200

Florian Weimer writes:
> Okay, you're using Mailman to administrate team membership. Let me say 
> that I think this is a bit bizarre, but it's some sort of technical 
> reason. (Other organizations keep team rosters and mailinglist 
> membership separate.)

The IETF doesn't have members, it has participants. See?

Arnt

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From: Florian Weimer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:02:00 +0200

> The IETF doesn't have members, it has participants. See?

Some participants are members, viz:

| For a list of the current directorate members, see the [begin
| link]list of subscribers to the secdir mailing list[end link].

<http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/sec/trac/wiki/SecurityDirectorate>

---

From: Donald Eastlake <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:24:02 -0400

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Arnt Gulbrandsen
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>> that I think this is a bit bizarre, but it's some sort of technical reason.
>> (Other organizations keep team rosters and mailinglist membership separate.)
>

Correct. The IETF and IETF Working Groups have no defined membership.
However, various IETF bodies such as the IAB, IESG, nomcom,
directorates set up by areas, etc., do have precise defined
membership.

> Arnt

Donald