Subject: Non-smoking rooms at the Hiroshima venue?

From: David Partain <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:52:32 +0200

Greetings,

I just set about to reserve a room at the meeting hotel via 
http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/cp/1/en/cwshome/DPRD-7LT5AJ/HIJJA (which 
required that I join their PriorityClub...).  Check-in on Saturday, check-out 
on Friday (nothing odd there).  I was, though, VERY surprised that there are 
no non-smoking rooms available.  All I got was:

1 SINGLE BED STANDARD SMOKING at ￥13,500. 

If I want non-smoking, I seem to have to pay 23,000 and have 2 beds.

Is this other's experience as well?  While I can survive a smoking room, I'd 
really rather not.  I haven't tried calling, so perhaps that's the solution.

Can anything be done to get us some non-smoking rooms since I suspect that's 
what almost everyone wants?

Cheers,

David

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From: Lawrence Conroy <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:11:37 +0100

Hi Dave, folks,
  Don't count me in.
After freezing my fingers off in MSP, that's a plus point about Japan.
At least this time I have a choice. So, apparently, do you.
all the best,
   Lawrence

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:03:46 -0700 (PDT)

David,

Let me take a stab at answering this. First of all, while it may not 
be obvious, you DO NOT need to be a Priority Club member in order to
reserve a room. AMS is trying to get the link fixed so that this will
be clearer. For now, you can just enter the desired arrival and 
departure dates. For some reason, if you already ARE a Priority Club
member the page does not seem to load properly, anyway... that's being 
worked on hopefully :-)

The ANA does indeed have a limited number of non-smoking rooms, but I 
know the hotel is well aware that most IETFrs will want non-smoking
rooms and they will do their best to accommodate you (even if the 
reservation system may not indicate availability).

Also, I stayed in an official *smoking* room at this hotel back in 
November and they had "air cleaned" it prior to my arrival. I had no 
issues, the room seemed as "clean" airwise as any non-smoking room
I've stayed in anywhere in the world.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: [email-masked]  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, David Partain wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:29:09 -0400

As for me, I made a reservation at Mitsui Garden and just sent a note
to the agency asking for a non-smoking room.  They replied that they
would forward my request to the hotel.

---

From: Michael StJohns <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:30:04 -0400

Hi Ole -

As of today, I was only able to book a twin room SMOKING at 19,000y at the ANA - there are no singles at the lower rate.  There are no non-smoking rooms even at the higher rate.  Given that I believe you're correct that most of the IETF will be looking for a non-smoking room, I'm not convinced that the hotel will be able to "air clean" all the necessary rooms in time.  It's possible, but would seem to be a lot of effort (and cost?) for the hotel that already has a signed agreement with the IETF - unless that agreement specifically requires that all non-smoking requests be accommodated? Since you're on the IAOC I believe, could you comment if that was part of the booking agreement?

Could you also comment on the mix of rooms that the agreement covers?  E.g. how many singles, doubles, etc?  I find it problematic that less than 18 hours after registration opens, we're already out of the lower cost rooms and the non-smoking rooms. 

Mike

At 01:03 PM 9/1/2009, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>> 1 SINGLE BED STANDARD SMOKING at ï¿¥13,500. 
>>

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT)

Mike,

I am going to let AMS answer that since they have the contract with 
the ANA. My understanding as of right now is that about 60% of the
rooms are non-smoking. The ANA has been aware of our desire for 
non-smoking rooms for a long time so I am sure they are working on
whatever solution they can find.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Michael StJohns wrote:

> Hi Ole -
> 
> As of today, I was only able to book a twin room SMOKING at 19,000y 
> at the ANA - there are no singles at the lower rate.  There are no 
> non-smoking rooms even at the higher rate.  Given that I believe 
> you're correct that most of the IETF will be looking for a 
> non-smoking room, I'm not convinced that the hotel will be able to 
> "air clean" all the necessary rooms in time.  It's possible, but 
> would seem to be a lot of effort (and cost?) for the hotel that 
> already has a signed agreement with the IETF - unless that agreement 
> specifically requires that all non-smoking requests be accommodated? 
> Since you're on the IAOC I believe, could you comment if that was 
> part of the booking agreement?
> 
> Could you also comment on the mix of rooms that the agreement 
> covers?  E.g. how many singles, doubles, etc?  I find it problematic 
> that less than 18 hours after registration opens, we're already out 
> of the lower cost rooms and the non-smoking rooms.
> 
> Mike
> 
>

---

From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:00:23 -0700

60% of our room block is considered non smoking but, as our room block  
is on the smaller side, it is possible that all non smoking rooms are  
indeed sold out. We have contacted the hotel to see how we can best  
work through this issue, but at the moment it is only 3am in Hiroshima  
so it will be a number of hours before we hear back. We will update  
everyone as soon as we know more.

Alexa

>> of the lower cost rooms and the non-smoking rooms.

-----------
Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF
48377 Fremont Blvd., Suite 117, Fremont, CA  94538
Phone: +1.510.492.4089 / Fax: +1.510.492.4001
Email: [email-masked]

Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS)
Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning
www.amsl.com <http://www.amsl.com/>

---

From: David Partain <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:01:03 +0200

Hi all,

On Tuesday 01 September 2009 19.30.04 Michael StJohns wrote:
> As of today, I was only able to book a twin room SMOKING at 19,000y at the
> ANA - there are no singles at the lower rate.
[snip]
> Could you also comment on the mix of rooms that the agreement covers?  E.g.
> how many singles, doubles, etc?  I find it problematic that less than 18
> hours after registration opens, we're already out of the lower cost rooms
> and the non-smoking rooms.

Sigh.  Problematic... yep.  Shoulda booked a smoking room yesterday :-(  I'll 
let Alexa and team see if this is going to be the way it is or if we can get 
more small rooms.  The difference in price is non-negligible.

Cheers,

David

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From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:43:54 -0400

Out of curiosity, why is the IETF rate ~2000Y higher than their standard
internet room rate (try to book next week to get an example rate, and
see Best Flexible Rate w/ Breakfast)?

Thanks,
Lou

On 9/1/2009 2:00 PM, Alexa Morris wrote:
> indeed sold out. We have contacted the hotel to see how we can best work
> through this issue, but at the moment it is only 3am in Hiroshima so it
> will be a number of hours before we hear back. We will update everyone
> as soon as we know more.
> 
> Alexa
>

---

From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 07:43:15 -0400

Yes.  I checked Sept 14-18.  Try it yourself, I expect you'll get the
same results...

Lou

On 9/4/2009 7:32 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> Does that online rate you saw include in-room Internet, service
> charges, and taxes? Those are included in the IETF rate.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Lou Berger<[email-masked]> wrote:

---

From: "Andrew G. Malis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:32:18 -0400

Lou,

Cheers,
Andy

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:47:27 -0400

> Yes.  I checked Sept 14-18.  Try it yourself, I expect you'll get the

I don't understand why the rate during another period is relevant to
the rate we might get.  Remember that hotels, like everyone else,
charge more when demand is higher.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
[email-masked]
Shinkuro, Inc.

---

From: David Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 06:57:34 -0700 (PDT)

> charge more when demand is higher.

And the cost of meeting space and/or other standard features (i.e., 
internet service in the room) is built into rate for meeting attendees.

---

From: "Darryl \(Dassa\) Lynch" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 01:03:56 +1000

David Morris wrote:
|| On Fri, 4 Sep 2009, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
|| 
||| On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 07:43:15AM -0400, Lou Berger wrote:
|||| Yes.  I checked Sept 14-18.  Try it yourself, I expect you'll get
|||| the same results...
||| 
||| I don't understand why the rate during another period is relevant to
||| the rate we might get.  Remember that hotels, like everyone else,
||| charge more when demand is higher.
|| 
|| And the cost of meeting space and/or other standard features
|| (i.e., internet service in the room) is built into rate for meeting
|| attendees. _______________________________________________

As I understand the norm, it is meeting rooms and facilities are charged as
a set fee with attendee room rates normally reduced due to the numbers
involved. Like most things, volume purchases reduce prices and unless the
meeting is held at a peak time for the hotel, good rates should be able to
be negotiated.

Rates may be higher than the norm if the negotiations included extras such
as the provision of morning and afternoon teas etc.  That is to be expected.
I imagine the committee has concluded the best deal possible.

Darryl (Dassa) Lynch

---

From: "Tadayuki Abraham HATTORI" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 01:00:52 +0900

Dear experts,

A protocol is a kinds of law.

I've just found out the new conceptual methodology/guideline for 
mathematical re-definition of constitution or legal/law. 
How do you think?  I Request for comments.

PEOPLE ARE CONSIDERING THE RESULT OF TODAY,
FOR SEEKING THE ANSWER OF NEXT DAY.
That's a kind of efforts of generalization of phenomenon. That's 
the origin of progression. Arithmetic Progression or Geometric 
Progression is a kind of generalization of that.

If the initial term of an arithmetic progression is a1 and the common 
difference of successive members is d, then the nth term of the 
sequence is given by

a_n = a_1 +(n-1)d,

The n-th term of a geometric sequence with initial value a and common 
ratio r is given by

a_n = a*r^(n-1)

These definitions are kinds of laws of mathematics. Here, let's consider 
the method of defining laws. Which type of definition is better?

DEF.1 { 
 Arithmetic Progression, 
 Geometric Progression, 
 Concept of Plus and Minus 
}

DEF.2 { 
 Arithmetic Progression, 
 Arithmetic Deprogression, 
 Geometric Progression, 
 Geometric Deprogression 
}

Yes, the answer is DEF.1. Because same law is defined with smaller 
information. Meanings of DEF.1 and DEF.2 are same. But the quantity 
of information of DEF.1 is less than DEF.2. In other words, with DEF.1, 
people can arrive at the answer more quickly.

In our Constitution or Legal, there is a kind of mistake which can be 
called as redundant definitions. Let's consider our constitution or legal
definitions.

There is a kind of general law of humanity, "PROHIBITION OF 
BETRAYAL BRINGING OUT BAD EFFECT FOR PUBLIC IN 
FUTURE".  Here, it is called as "LAW-X".

In our constitution or legal, there are too many redundant definitions 
like that.

{
LAW-X OF CONSTITUTION
LAW-X OF CIVIL LAW
LAW-X OF CORPORATE LAW
LAW-X OF SECURITIES LAW
LAW-X OF TRAFFIC LAW
.....
}

These kinds of definitions are too redundant. 

According to above idea of examples of laws of mathematics, it is 
possible to re-define constitutions or legal/laws.

---
Abraham TaddyHatty < [email-masked] >

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 02:16:20 -0500

> charge more when demand is higher.

It's a fair guide as to whether or not the hotel (perhaps with the  
collusion of the meeting organizers) is putting the thumbscrews to us.

For example, if the IETF attendee room rate is higher than the average  
rate for the hotel, we might be getting taking advantage of. If it's  
higher than the recorded maximum general-availability rate, then we  
almost definitely have a problem. If the IETF attendee rate is higher  
than the general-availability rate for the same time period, then  
we're absolutely positively being abused.

I don't know about you, but when I book a thousand rooms from a hotel  
(giving them a million dollars revenue), plus spend a half-million  
dollars  or more on meeting rooms over a week, I expect the hotel to  
be fairly generous about guest rooms. And when I've paid $700 or so  
for a meeting fee, I don't expect the organizer to pad their budget by  
having the hotel overcharge me on those rooms.

--
Dean

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:25:29 -0500

On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Alexa Morris wrote:

> 60% of our room block is considered non smoking but, as our room  
> block is on the smaller side, it is possible that all non smoking  
> rooms are indeed sold out. We have contacted the hotel to see how we  
> can best work through this issue, but at the moment it is only 3am  
> in Hiroshima so it will be a number of hours before we hear back. We  
> will update everyone as soon as we know more.

Did I miss any updates on this? Any word back from the hotel?

Thanks!

Ben.

---

From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:10:44 -0700

At this point it does appear that all non-smoking rooms at the ANA  
Hotel have been allocated.

However, the hotel has assured us that every room -- smoking or non- 
smoking -- will be "freshened" prior to our arrival. This is a special  
step that they are taking specifically to accommodate our somewhat  
unusual needs.  In addition, the windows in the rooms open slightly,  
which will provide some fresh air.

Alexa

On Sep 14, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Ben Campbell wrote:

>> rooms are indeed sold out. We have contacted the hotel to see how  
>> we can best work through this issue, but at the moment it is only  
>> 3am in Hiroshima so it will be a number of hours before we hear  
>> back. We will update everyone as soon as we know more.
>

-----------