Subject: Regarding Internet Connectivity for the proposed IETF Meeting in China

From: David Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT)

There has been much discussion of what the folks at the meeting might or 
might not do which might result in some official action to terminate the 
meeting early. I tend to side with the folks who believe it would take a 
really egregious action to actually activate the clause because I'm 
personally aware of how much non-conformance to official rules is 
tolerated when officials perceive it in China's interest AND when it isn't 
flaunted.

That aside though, I've not seen a description of the part of the 
contract provisions and/or venue plans which deal with the 'great 
firewall' potential impact on the many ways IETF participants expect to 
use the Internet during meetings. Both from a perspective of attendees as 
well as those of us unlikely to be present but desiring traditional audio, 
video, chat, etc. real time access.

Does the IETF plan to install a giant VPN back to a 'safe haven' for the 
IETF venue LAN, or does the Chinese government have provisions for 
selectivly unblocking the meeting internet venue?

If not, then it seems to me that the show stopper isn't the potential for 
dissruptive perveived to be political content, it is the fact the basic 
working conditions for the whole IETF aren't provided.

In this context there is also the potential perceived rules violation from 
IETF mailing list content originating outside of China.

David Morris

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:39:11 -0400

David Morris allegedly wrote on 09/24/2009 5:34 PM:
> tolerated when officials perceive it in China's interest AND when it
> isn't flaunted.
> 
> use the Internet during meetings. Both from a perspective of attendees
> as well as those of us unlikely to be present but desiring traditional
> audio, video, chat, etc. real time access.

My experience has been that the "great firewall" was barely noticeable.
 I couldn't get to BBC at least once, but I could use IPsec or SSH, and
Skype or SIP whenever I wanted to.

---

From: Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:17:18 +0200

David Morris <[email-masked]> writes:

> firewall' potential impact on the many ways IETF participants expect
> to use the Internet during meetings. Both from a perspective of
> attendees as well as those of us unlikely to be present but desiring
> traditional audio, video, chat, etc. real time access.

Given the number of people browsing the web or reading e-mail during
meetings, I wonder whether cutting off Internet access beyond internal
network services for jabber, presentation materials, etc during IETF
meetings wouldn't actually _increase_ productivity.  It could make
people pay attention to the technical discussions.  Some people could
even spend the time writing specifications.  Or _implement_ the
specifications and test them against others, although that might be too
far-fetched.

/Simon - only half :-)