Subject: Re: chicago IETF IPv6 connectivity

From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:35:14 -0400 (EDT)

> From: "Stephen Sprunk" <[email-masked]>

    > parts of the market like consumer CPE where the vendors have a history
    > of only releasing new software on new hardware, so a v6 upgrade will
    > require hundreds of millions of people to buy new boxes even though
    > their existing boxes would do v6 just fine if the vendors bothered to
    > release new code for them.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some vendors don't actually have an
incentive for *not* releasing new code for existing boxes, because in some
markets (e.g. the USA), the market for these sorts of boxes is close to
saturated (as in, a high percentage of potential buyers already have one).
So, the only way for these vendors to make a major sale (since people are
unlikely to want to pay significant $$$ for a code upgrade - plus to which
most people aren't going to want to fuss with upgrading anyway) is to
obsolete the old boxes, forcing purchase of a new one...

    > We all agree on the long-term vision. 

Not necessarily.

	Noel

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From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:16:02 -0700

> obsolete the old boxes, forcing purchase of a new one...

Like desktop computers These products are being marketed on the basis of
improved features to people who already have one...

You got a new one because:

Your dsl provider cpe is so flakey you want to chuck it.

You've switched from dsl to cable.

Your dsl cpe has only one ethernet jack on the back.

Your cable cpe doesn't nat all your machines and your printer keeps
crashing due to all the broadcast/probe traffic on your local segment.

Your old one is 802.11B or G and you want G or N

You want a gigabit ethernet switch included instead of 100Mb/s your old
router had.

The current one offers inadequate wireless coverage.

You signed a contract for the the foo service offering from your
cable/dsl/fixed wireless/cellular carrier and it came in the mail.

>     > We all agree on the long-term vision. 

It is hard to get people to desire a software feature on the device that
they turn on and forget about and that it is worth running out and
buying an upgrade especially if the one they have is still nominally
working...

New technology washing machines use less water and power, destroy fewer
clothes and clean better, but when was the last time you upgraded?

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:00:14 +0100

> Your old one is 802.11B or G and you want G or N

Your old one is IPv4 and you want IPv6.

Does anybody believe that the transition to IPv6 at the edge is *NOT*
going to require a complete replacement of gateway devices?

Given that transitioning the Internet provider edge to IPv6 is going to
result in a wholesale replacement of Internet gateway devices, shouldn't
the IETF have some clear guidance on the capabilities of an IPv6
gateway? Such a device is not merely a router/switch, but also manages
the site boundary (ULA addressing), probably should include firewalling
with sensible defaults, and so on. And given that IPv6 is uncharted
territory, wouldn't it make sense to specify that the software in an
IPv6 gateway should be easily upgradeable?

> New technology washing machines use less water and power, 
> destroy fewer clothes and clean better, but when was the last 
> time you upgraded?

Water, detergent and clothes have not changed as much as IPv6. In any
case, at least one chain of stores in the UK advertises that they will
take away your old appliance free if you order a new A-rated
energy-saving appliance from them.

--Michael Dillon