From nobody Thu Nov 2 18:59:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A22913FB16; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vj862eaioNil; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A44BE13FAF1; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DZD60132; Fri, 03 Nov 2017 01:59:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:59:17 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.148]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 09:59:11 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: idr wg CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft IDR agenda posted Thread-Index: AdNURj+Scsn5MoB2Tk6it0RWm2CJ2Q== Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:59:10 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279812335C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279812335CNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.59FBCD77.0045, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.148, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 52bd0727bb5a0c45bb5ed92f5f38ba0e Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Draft IDR agenda posted X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 01:59:23 -0000 --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279812335CNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, The draft agenda for the IDR session has been posted: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/agenda-100-idr/ If you see any problem with it, or if there are additional items to discuss= , please let us know. Presenters, Please prepare to send your slides to me and CC the chairs. The deadline fo= r slides is 24 hours prior to the session (note we are on Monday this time)= , though earlier is better. And please take a look at the checklist for presenting at IDR: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%2= 0at%20an%20IDR%20meeting Best regards, Jie --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279812335CNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

The draft agenda for the IDR se= ssion has been posted:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/meeting/100/materials/agenda-100-idr/

 

If you see any problem with = it, or if there are additional items to discuss, please let us know.

 

Presenters, <= /p>

 

Please prepare to send your sli= des to me and CC the chairs. The deadline for slides is 24 hours prior to t= he session (note we are on Monday this time) , though earlier is better.

 

And please take a look at the c= hecklist for presenting at IDR:

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presen= ting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting

 

Best regards,=

Jie

 

--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279812335CNKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Mon Nov 6 15:09:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F039B13F698; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5iFqHODMnRPb; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AB6513FC99; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id BC93CB814D5; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:09:31 -0800 (PST) To: worley@ariadne.com, tbates@cisco.com, rchandra@sonoasystems.com, dkatz@juniper.com, yakov@juniper.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, iesg@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20171106230931.BC93CB814D5@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:09:31 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC4760 (5120) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:09:50 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC4760, "Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5120 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Dale Worley Date Reported: 2017-09-23 Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG) Section: global Original Text ------------- section 3: ... each NLRI ... [2 occurrences] section 5: The Network Layer Reachability information is encoded as ... Corrected Text -------------- ... each NLRI item ... When the Subsequent Address Family Identifier field is set to one of the values defined in this document (1 or 2), the NLRI field is encoded as ... Notes ----- The text in section 3 makes it clear that the NLRI encoding in section 5 is only specified for SAFI 1 and 2, but the text in section 5 does not state this. This tends to cause readers to believe that section 5 applies to any SAFI. (See, e.g., draft-ietf-mpls-rfc3107bis.) (However, other RFCs do specify similar encoding structures for some other SAFIs; see, e.g., RFC 3107.) The wording "each NLRI" is incorrect, as NLRI is a field and there is only one of them in an UPDATE message. -------------------------------------- RFC4760 (draft-ietf-idr-rfc2858bis-10) -------------------------------------- Title : Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4 Publication Date : January 2007 Author(s) : T. Bates, R. Chandra, D. Katz, Y. Rekhter Category : DRAFT STANDARD Source : Inter-Domain Routing Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Sat Nov 11 11:47:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D2F13FBDC; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ApB9TXmf0GVU; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B7B313FBDD; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 15CB4B810C7; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:00:44 -0800 (PST) To: mq+rfc@ucw.cz, roque@cisco.com, nsheth@juniper.net, raszuk@cisco.com, bgreene@juniper.net, jmauch@us.ntt.net, danny@arbor.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, iesg@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20171106220044.15CB4B810C7@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:00:44 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 11:47:06 -0800 Subject: [Idr] [Errata Verified] RFC5575 (5043) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 22:00:59 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC5575, "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5043 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Technical Reported by: Jan Matejka Date Reported: 2017-06-20 Verified by: Alvaro Retana (IESG) Section: 7 Original Text ------------- +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | type | extended community | encoding | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | 0x8006 | traffic-rate | 2-byte as#, 4-byte float | | 0x8007 | traffic-action | bitmask | | 0x8008 | redirect | 6-byte Route Target | | 0x8009 | traffic-marking | DSCP value | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ Traffic-rate: The traffic-rate extended community is a non- transitive extended community across the autonomous-system boundary and uses following extended community encoding: Corrected Text -------------- +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | type | extended community | encoding | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | 0x8006 | traffic-rate | 2-byte as#, 4-byte float | | 0x8007 | traffic-action | bitmask | | 0x8008 | redirect | 6-byte Route Target | | 0x8009 | traffic-marking | DSCP value | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ Traffic-rate: The traffic-rate extended community uses following extended community encoding: Notes ----- The traffic rate type is allocated in the Transitive Experimental Range (https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extended-communities/bgp-extended-communities.xhtml#bgp-extended-communities-10) but the text declares it non-transitive. ===== [Alvaro Retana] I am marking this report as Verified knowing that the issue is already being addressed in rfc5575bis. -------------------------------------- RFC5575 (draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-09) -------------------------------------- Title : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules Publication Date : August 2009 Author(s) : P. Marques, N. Sheth, R. Raszuk, B. Greene, J. Mauch, D. McPherson Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Inter-Domain Routing Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Sat Nov 11 23:50:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949CB1200B9; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:40:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jGCpdq7c9IHd; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED931124B09; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:40:39 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=31.133.157.12; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'RFC Errata System'" , , , , , , , Cc: , References: <20171106220044.15CB4B810C7@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20171106220044.15CB4B810C7@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 15:40:14 -0500 Message-ID: <001201d35b2d$49aa4d70$dcfee850$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGp+H/0cRN950BP7icXCMsGp7nyQ6NiaOzw Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 23:50:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [Idr] [Errata Verified] RFC5575 (5043) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 20:40:41 -0000 Alvaro: This is correct. John indicated the replacement (draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt) passed WG LC with the submission of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-06.txt. Sue Hares -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of RFC Errata System Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:01 PM To: mq+rfc@ucw.cz; roque@cisco.com; nsheth@juniper.net; raszuk@cisco.com; bgreene@juniper.net; jmauch@us.ntt.net; danny@arbor.net Cc: idr@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org; iesg@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] [Errata Verified] RFC5575 (5043) The following errata report has been verified for RFC5575, "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5043 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Technical Reported by: Jan Matejka Date Reported: 2017-06-20 Verified by: Alvaro Retana (IESG) Section: 7 Original Text ------------- +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | type | extended community | encoding | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | 0x8006 | traffic-rate | 2-byte as#, 4-byte float | | 0x8007 | traffic-action | bitmask | | 0x8008 | redirect | 6-byte Route Target | | 0x8009 | traffic-marking | DSCP value | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ Traffic-rate: The traffic-rate extended community is a non- transitive extended community across the autonomous-system boundary and uses following extended community encoding: Corrected Text -------------- +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | type | extended community | encoding | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ | 0x8006 | traffic-rate | 2-byte as#, 4-byte float | | 0x8007 | traffic-action | bitmask | | 0x8008 | redirect | 6-byte Route Target | | 0x8009 | traffic-marking | DSCP value | +--------+--------------------+--------------------------+ Traffic-rate: The traffic-rate extended community uses following extended community encoding: Notes ----- The traffic rate type is allocated in the Transitive Experimental Range (https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extended-communities/bgp-extended-comm unities.xhtml#bgp-extended-communities-10) but the text declares it non-transitive. ===== [Alvaro Retana] I am marking this report as Verified knowing that the issue is already being addressed in rfc5575bis. -------------------------------------- RFC5575 (draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-09) -------------------------------------- Title : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules Publication Date : August 2009 Author(s) : P. Marques, N. Sheth, R. Raszuk, B. Greene, J. Mauch, D. McPherson Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Inter-Domain Routing Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sun Nov 12 14:47:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C081200B9; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 14:47:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.646 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.646 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kNL6KHY14RpZ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 14:47:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59A1C124F57; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 14:47:46 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=31.133.157.12; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: , Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 17:47:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01D35BDE.563DBBB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 22:47:48 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D35BDE.563DBBB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publication. Susan Hares PS - the request for this WG LC is at: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D35BDE.563DBBB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This = begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to = 11/26).  Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. =    Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready = for publication.  

 

Susan Hares =

 

PS – the request for this WG LC is = at:

= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html<= /o:p>

 

 

 =

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D35BDE.563DBBB0-- From nobody Sun Nov 12 21:46:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04866127599 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:45:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3JV6cT1lTdMg for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33542129484 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:45:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10975; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510551947; x=1511761547; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=cPa9uJLUTd4W760jPuGiJ9wWBxjPHMAZq2dThXolFBE=; b=Pyog51vEzQ0NX9UKmy6oCpArzk1atvsPuNY3y+UJUsm/oPlTOB82ZxV7 mahsrmzeVchi/r/TrX5kxAZq/7VqiYNq8UkrxN9Uwdvkh4QKfRLPxtmb7 wHdBrCyGepDx56RfpAEysBpigo2yU1qclBZNZ69PaytE5NCwa8L5Ne3rR 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CcAQAEMQla/5RdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJEcWRuJ4N+mUiBfX6QCodZCiWFFgIahCxCFQEBAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohR4BAQIDI1YSAQgRBAEBKAMCBDAUCQoEAQ0FiT5kEKsbgieLBgEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgzSCB4FVgWkpgkw1hU2CX4JjBY8pkwECh2mNGYIVhgi?= =?us-ascii?q?LJYoxgjeJDwIRGQGBOAE1IoFyehWDLYIjboFOd4hXAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.44,387,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="30668801" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Nov 2017 05:45:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (xch-aln-008.cisco.com [173.36.7.18]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAD5jk4j031302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:45:46 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:45:45 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:45:45 -0600 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf. org" CC: Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC (7/17 - 7/31) Thread-Index: AQHTXEKm2k7jeUFh/USuSgYD9MDeIg== Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:45:45 +0000 Message-ID: <65fbdb03-c6d7-4c30-9fee-0f37d450de11@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_65fbdb03c6d74c309fee0f37d450de11emailandroidcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC (7/17 - 7/31) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:45:59 -0000 --_000_65fbdb03c6d74c309fee0f37d450de11emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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(PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y5eiI9O9ukqd for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:43:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECB1E120724 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:43:24 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=31.133.157.12; From: "Susan Hares" To: References: <572ABC62-EAF9-4110-BBCC-BF35B20827DA@ciena.com> <00ab01d33308$7037dae0$50a790a0$@ndzh.com> <18B62DF3-35BA-414D-ADD5-4F878018EA64@ciena.com> <528A2C12-93F0-4F58-8603-FE414DAB39FF@ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <528A2C12-93F0-4F58-8603-FE414DAB39FF@ciena.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 17:43:12 -0500 Message-ID: <01a301d35cd0$cb00b310$61021930$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A4_01D35CA6.E22FB420" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQHrkDrcd9Z1BvRlwJjgxyypkQn0CQKw3dAxAhFtlO0CLMjfZwH8LKbUAcQrKnYCGcg6BQC1npmDonaKIHA= X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] FW: BGP yang data model question X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:43:27 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01D35CA6.E22FB420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarding comments from Himanshu. =20 Sue Hares=20 =20 From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:48 AM To: Keyur Patel; Susan Hares; 'Xufeng Liu' Subject: Re: BGP yang data model question =20 Forwarding as reminder as per today=E2=80=99s WG question. =20 Please see at the bottom for the information. =20 Thanks, Himanshu =20 From: Keyur Patel Date: Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:47 AM To: "Shah, Himanshu" , Susan Hares , = 'Xufeng Liu' Subject: Re: BGP yang data model question =20 Hi Himanshu, =20 As Sue mentioned we should have an updated model soon for you to review. = Furthermore, some of the commands you listed MAY NOT be present in the = base model as they belong in what we call as augmented model. The = breakdown detail will be made available soon. =20 Hope all is well otherwise. J =20 Regards, Keyur =20 From: "Shah, Himanshu" Date: Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:45 AM To: Susan Hares , 'Xufeng Liu' , = Keyur Patel Subject: Re: BGP yang data model question =20 Sue =E2=80=93 We are in the middle of implementation and would like to see this = resolved sooner than later. Any relief you can offer? =20 Thanks, Himanshu =20 From: Susan Hares Date: Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:36 PM To: 'Xufeng Liu' , "Shah, Himanshu" = , 'Keyur Patel' Subject: RE: BGP yang data model question =20 Xufeng: =20 We=E2=80=99re working on a revision to the BGP model. I=E2=80=99m = mid-way through checking the model. Let me finish that so you can see = it, and then I=E2=80=99ll send these questions over the weekend.=20 =20 Sue Hares =20 From: Xufeng Liu [mailto:Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:19 AM To: Shah, Himanshu; shares@ndzh.com; Keyur Patel Subject: RE: BGP yang data model question =20 Sending to Keyur=E2=80=99s correct email address. Thanks, - Xufeng =20 From: Xufeng Liu=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 9:22 PM To: 'Shah, Himanshu' ; keyupate@cisco.com; = shares@ndzh.com Subject: RE: BGP yang data model question =20 Hi Himanshu, =20 These configuration attributes were existing in the draft = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00, which was = merged with https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-01 = later on. These attributes were taken out after the merge. I think that = the reason was because of the OC philosophy of taking minimum commonly = used feature set. It is good that you are bringing up this topic again, = which can be further discussed. =20 I believe that Keyur may have more to say on this. =20 Thanks, - Xufeng =20 From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 9:05 PM To: Xufeng Liu ; keyupate@cisco.com; = shares@ndzh.com Subject: Re: BGP yang data model question =20 Now with right sue=E2=80=99s address.. =20 Thanks, Himanshu =20 From: "Shah, Himanshu" Date: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 8:59 PM To: Xufeng Liu , "keyupate@cisco.com" = , "hares@ndzh.com" Subject: Re: BGP yang data model question =20 Including Keyur and Sue Hares.. =20 Hi Keyur and Sue =E2=80=93 =20 Can you answer the question below? It seems like there are bunch of configurable on per address family per = neighbor, But IDR yang data model does not support it. Cisco and other routers do support these configurables (seems like they = have their own yang data file). =20 Do you know why such limitation in IDR yang data model? =20 Thanks, Himanshu =20 From: "Shah, Himanshu" Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 6:30 PM To: Xufeng Liu Subject: BGP yang data model =20 Hi Xufeng =E2=80=93 =20 Why are below attributes not available at per neighbor per address = family in BGP IETF yang data model? Cisco supports them in their legacy BGP implementation. =20 =20 =20 ipservices(config)#router bgp 100 ipservices(config-router)#address-family vpnv4 unicast ipservices(config-router-af)#neighbor 1.1.1.1 ? activate Enable the Address Family for this Neighbor additional-paths Additional paths in the BGP table advertise Advertise to this neighbor allow-ebgp-vpn Allow VPN Routes to be exchanged over EBGP connection allowas-in Accept as-path with my AS present in it attribute-unchanged BGP attribute is propagated unchanged to this = neighbor distribute-list Filter updates to/from this neighbor filter-list Establish BGP filters maximum-prefix Maximum number of prefix accept from this peer next-hop-self Disable the next hop calculation for this neighbor prefix-list Filter updates to/from this neighbor remove-private-AS Remove private AS number from outbound updates route-map Apply route map to neighbor route-reflector-client Configure a neighbor as Route Reflector client route-server-client Configure a neighbor as Route Server client send-community Send Community attribute to this neighbor weight Set default weight for routes from this neighbor =20 ipservices(config-router-af)#neighbor 1.1.1.1 =20 =20 Thanks, Himanshu ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01D35CA6.E22FB420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Forwarding comments from = Himanshu.

 

Sue = Hares

 

From:= = Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]
Sent: Monday, = November 13, 2017 1:48 AM
To: Keyur Patel; Susan Hares; = 'Xufeng Liu'
Subject: Re: BGP yang data model = question

 

Forwarding as reminder as per = today=E2=80=99s WG question.

 

Please see at the bottom for the = information.

 

Thanks,

Himanshu

 

From: = Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>
Date: = Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:47 AM
To: "Shah, = Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>, 'Xufeng = Liu' <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>
S= ubject: Re: BGP yang data model = question

 

Hi = Himanshu,

 

As Sue mentioned we = should have an updated model soon for you to review. Furthermore, some = of the commands you listed MAY NOT be present in the base model as they = belong in what we call as augmented model. The breakdown detail will be = made available soon.

 

Hope all is well = otherwise. J

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

Regards,

Keyur

 

From: = "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
Date: = Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:45 AM
To: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>, 'Xufeng = Liu' <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>, Keyur = Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>
Subject: = Re: BGP yang data model question

 

Sue = =E2=80=93

We are in the middle of = implementation and would like to see this resolved sooner than = later.

Any relief you can = offer?

 =

Thanks,

Himanshu

 =

From: = Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: = Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 2:36 PM
To: 'Xufeng Liu' = <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>, = "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, 'Keyur Patel' = <keyur@arrcus.com>
Subject: = RE: BGP yang data model question

 

Xufeng:

 

We=E2=80=99re working on a = revision to the BGP model.  I=E2=80=99m mid-way through checking = the model.  Let me finish that so you can see it, and then = I=E2=80=99ll send these questions over the weekend. =

 

Sue = Hares

 

From:= = Xufeng Liu [mailto:Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com] =
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:19 AM
To: = Shah, Himanshu; shares@ndzh.com; = Keyur Patel
Subject: RE: BGP yang data model = question

 

Sending to = Keyur=E2=80=99s correct email address.

Thanks,

- Xufeng

 

From: Xufeng Liu
Sent: Wednesday, = September 20, 2017 9:22 PM
To: 'Shah, Himanshu' <hshah@ciena.com>; keyupate@cisco.com; shares@ndzh.com
Subject: = RE: BGP yang data model question

 

Hi Himanshu,

 

These configuration attributes were existing = in the draft https:= //tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00, which was = merged with https:= //tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-01 later on. These = attributes were taken out after the merge. I think that the reason was = because of the OC philosophy of taking minimum commonly used feature = set. It is good that you are bringing up this topic again, which can be = further discussed.

 

I believe that Keyur may have more to say on = this.

 

Thanks,

- Xufeng

 

From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] =
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 9:05 PM
To: = Xufeng Liu <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>; keyupate@cisco.com; shares@ndzh.com
Subject: = Re: BGP yang data model question

 

Now with right = sue=E2=80=99s address..

 =

Thanks,

Himanshu

 =

From: = "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
Date: = Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 8:59 PM
To: Xufeng Liu = <xufeng_liu@jabil.com>, = "keyupate@cisco.com" = <keyupate@cisco.com>, = "hares@ndzh.com" <hares@ndzh.com>
Subject: = Re: BGP yang data model question

 

Including Keyur and Sue = Hares..

 =

Hi Keyur and Sue = =E2=80=93

 =

Can you answer the question = below?

It seems like there are = bunch of configurable on per address family per = neighbor,

But IDR yang data model = does not support it.

Cisco and other routers do = support these configurables (seems like they have their own yang data = file).

 =

Do you know why such = limitation in IDR yang data model?

 =

Thanks,

Himanshu

 =

From: = "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
Date: = Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 6:30 PM
To: Xufeng Liu = <xufeng_liu@jabil.com>
S= ubject: BGP yang data model

 

Hi Xufeng = =E2=80=93

 =

Why are below attributes = not available at per neighbor per address family in BGP IETF yang data = model?

Cisco supports them in = their legacy BGP implementation.

 =

 =

 =

ipservices(config)#router = bgp 100

ipservices(config-router)#ad= dress-family vpnv4 unicast

ipservices(config-router-af)= #neighbor 1.1.1.1 ?

activate Enable the Address Family for this = Neighbor

additional-paths Additional paths in the BGP = table

advertise Advertise to this = neighbor

allow-ebgp-vpn Allow VPN Routes to be exchanged over EBGP = connection

allowas-in Accept as-path with my AS present in = it

attribute-unchanged BGP attribute is propagated unchanged to = this neighbor

distribute-list Filter updates to/from this = neighbor

filter-list Establish BGP filters

maximum-prefix Maximum number of prefix accept from this = peer

next-hop-self Disable the next hop calculation for this = neighbor

prefix-list Filter updates to/from this = neighbor

remove-private-AS Remove private AS number from outbound = updates

route-map Apply route map to = neighbor

route-reflector-client Configure a neighbor as Route = Reflector client

route-server-client Configure a neighbor as Route Server = client

send-community Send Community attribute to this = neighbor

weight Set default weight for routes from this = neighbor

 =

ipservices(config-router-af)= #neighbor 1.1.1.1

 =

 =

Thanks,

Himanshu

------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01D35CA6.E22FB420-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 22:41:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2553512951F for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:41:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YsvWftUX1uJg for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29296128796 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id y206so14122408oiy.4 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:40:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ML9N6Z/2+GgGoMAAxEGvzZHBt+2CPT15bfVOiT+1zq0=; b=t6DRDkW8WRjxS/tsWTH0FX7NYKlHeo934qisXFo0inRLGj1AIWmuRqVYasVdpGfnqk WlCHJeHzgkfst2Cn6H9Rg2/BVj2nNOY7yBoI6Vg+Qa92NE224xQARFxUzAOISR9k3HZ0 YBvrmLxzf5hBzayhIMQ0gzYZhYfvSVG9RzC/YMQBdY57zy601/+G5fMYvEDd+PSUMDUE mmubHWcLb4QqjKJiXSXmDCdm9B2ajndXgi6rt6k8+f/I5Mcmwh7Ozibr3HinEC7lcgpx TtNDWe7D5NTwKbD6wGedkGwCluJj+qSTrI15VmWwDtKUyVCpeImsv0DJV31xlA9gKHB/ opkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ML9N6Z/2+GgGoMAAxEGvzZHBt+2CPT15bfVOiT+1zq0=; b=baomAwSDeeDIm9XygABhXjE48ishsBJz3887C2y6krKpuvueN1372IuiNoTHilaWdd 79QQl2tMdnhOXW4O/RFYlFj+SbQC1oPgVTeWj2Ggj1SjYmDGqc9nbRmiHQS1zlNpEWJs r6GD7kIsfr1KS7Wr/HdJYk4ScrO7FL/tDbOwbngTJUkdVoiwu/7Cb+kktyKdI1ITSFiP Lz2H+vkJEYN7cDrXIk/E6Yq3obou5OJgO81vppezddNJivdOqNm2waAGkoBa7Wx8vEOh fV414BgxLPfy0fIyf4zYys0LXMc9ae+YUa75h0zV0q3v8eSXsC4gTE5/yBdFwlJxT0RR RyiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4L1utEk9YwL3GNp1qOenf0sqR8lrmTkNLDDv5NX84Wb+nzbBpk CxtnMfRdy3jaEm8bcbSpNrJjciBrpZYv4fZHUjM/5A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZ9BoxSXZ+t+XN/D5Y568dhF8sNi+wVUkDIGmbxykek8miWoYuHOd7QfCvLTxZZs0yYYc5Ay0BRDuKnz61s2ec= X-Received: by 10.202.8.149 with SMTP id 143mr8611011oii.357.1510728059254; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:40:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5C153416-1444-48AA-A940-7AFB4ADEEB2A@juniper.net> <20171024125704.5ogdqrmoajnlahs2@hanna.meerval.net> In-Reply-To: <20171024125704.5ogdqrmoajnlahs2@hanna.meerval.net> From: Rob Shakir Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:40:48 +0000 Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: John Scudder , paul@jakma.org, "idr@ietf.org List" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c12f2365309eb055dffc957" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:41:12 -0000 --94eb2c12f2365309eb055dffc957 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Job, I don't recall the reason that this didn't go forward - so unfortunately can't comment on that. However, I wonder how many implementors of BGP are really just looking at 4271 these days and using these recommendations. It has been BCP a long time that withdrawls should not be subject to MRAI in an implementation, and tuneable MRAIs have been/are configurable in most implementations. Do you think that getting out the IETF chisels and carving a new RFC is needed to make this more common? Do you see implementations that don't do what was suggested in this document or at least provide you knobs to achieve this? r. On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 at 05:57 Job Snijders wrote: > Dear all, > > Reviving an old thread. > > I noticed support from Robert Raszuk, Jeff Tantsura, Bruno Decraene, > andd Rob Shakir to deprecate the RFC 4271 default MRAI values. Jeff Haas > commented that he read the draft. > > Perhaps it is time to conclude this WGLC? Or was the work abandoned for > some reason not immediately apparent from the mailing list archive? > > The draft expired, but the latest version is here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-04 > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 08:44:57AM +0000, John Scudder wrote: > > Folks, > > > > We have been remiss in not WGLC'ing this draft earlier, it has been > stable for some time and is exceptionally short (about a half-page plus > boilerplate): > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-03.txt > > > > Please send any comments on the draft to the list by April 12, 2011. > > > > Thanks, > > > > --John > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --94eb2c12f2365309eb055dffc957 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Job,

I don't recall the reason t= hat this didn't go forward - so unfortunately can't comment on that= .

However, I wonder how many implementors of BGP a= re really just looking at 4271 these days and using these recommendations. = It has been BCP a long time that withdrawls should not be subject to MRAI i= n an implementation, and tuneable MRAIs have been/are configurable in most = implementations.

Do you think that getting out the= IETF chisels and carving a new RFC is needed to make this more common? Do = you see implementations that don't do what was suggested in this docume= nt or at least provide you knobs to achieve this?

= r.

On Tue, 24 Oc= t 2017 at 05:57 Job Snijders <job@ntt.net= > wrote:
Dear all,

Reviving an old thread.

I noticed support from Robert Raszuk, Jeff Tantsura, Bruno Decraene,
andd Rob Shakir to deprecate the RFC 4271 default MRAI values. Jeff Haas commented that he read the draft.

Perhaps it is time to conclude this WGLC? Or was the work abandoned for
some reason not immediately apparent from the mailing list archive?

The draft expired, but the latest version is here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-04

Kind regards,

Job


On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 08:44:57AM +0000, John Scudder wrote:
> Folks,
>
> We have been remiss in not WGLC'ing this draft earlier, it has bee= n stable for some time and is exceptionally short (about a half-page plus b= oilerplate):
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-= drafts/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-03.txt
>
> Please send any comments on the draft to the list by April 12, 2011. >
> Thanks,
>
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
--94eb2c12f2365309eb055dffc957-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 05:11:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A718C126DCA for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:11:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SXDCPeTr_Huf for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5A02124B17 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:11:43 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from cupcake.local (089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAFCBU4m064355 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:11:30 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.local Message-ID: <5A0C3D0B.6030704@foobar.org> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:11:39 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.20 (Macintosh/20171012) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Susan Hares CC: idr@ietf.org References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:11:46 -0000 Susan Hares wrote: > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 > implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is > ready for publication. looks good. Please publish. Nick From nobody Wed Nov 15 05:16:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE4F12751F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9m9zBAWrdp2 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:3::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69368124B17 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eExXt-000AsC-RC (job@us.ntt.net) for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:16:02 +0000 Received: by mail-ot0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 18so19519951oty.9 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4a2K6/0HncvNfQVaQGaJGqCenbPfLmFFnOsswdbzRG+1AqLMB4 cNzT5g5EJ3GeYW7BxxsmU1TkRF9j6+f8DubXQ7ofXQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbzpVwSblgtQcEQJEemH6QutkuVQUeZHdb2pSvpUPRlcY6rfw0hOLwdXhnHb/hA/JtiSKwe0b48zheYmQ0dvhQ= X-Received: by 10.157.52.164 with SMTP id g33mr10435420otc.397.1510751760787; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.88.132 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:16:00 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2001:67c:208c:10:c496:6d53:dcb7:9e99] In-Reply-To: <5A0C3D0B.6030704@foobar.org> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <5A0C3D0B.6030704@foobar.org> From: Job Snijders Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:16:00 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Susan Hares , idr wg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:16:05 -0000 Susan Hares wrote: > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 > implementations. The implementation report is available here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations > Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publication. I support publication. Kind regards, Job From nobody Wed Nov 15 05:56:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA393126D46; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fw2BX2Fl9x70; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x242.google.com (mail-wr0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 018AD126579; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x242.google.com with SMTP id y42so20558648wrd.3; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=XsbQjHAzgJ9CELcRUJ0XyZHrCWzAKtrCgVS7cV07yjg=; b=bP4SRpJk7CTco2J0BsdkoGqEjskQhpuYh9e9T+Cikm6h9s/bRzVCYRKX+VeLm/XHtL TSynffPk2Ex5t2U8gk7lN1xJd+ohZZ1ljALRs7l3nKIspJLc1c/E45MkrZgZb5YzHwdg BaL7CvPoB6VNU2DJ3BpCh+FcelDd7ffYrAlLcN1eLb6VXjEidAxm1wiodrUlqiBMdZXu 5/9KnuktagEYXO0bvCip6rzcuOdHDabqQCRfClDfIFt93soITXAvmHPv3NAkyHM8q10w d92z8dJcB710+EEU33DNJkYG8Xc47TJ+KB/yf+ELDJB/kFFg241sVnFla+mEW8sEVTii rsiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XsbQjHAzgJ9CELcRUJ0XyZHrCWzAKtrCgVS7cV07yjg=; b=dpYuabXHxzJrRYemnRDgzf8hA6HyUa+bnHr21m6OMDSN6y9i5zETonFu8Y9E4kLfEy L+36phUipC+GC+p72dyw2dd3/6CfxkpbZWIhhFKRu0An1nawo0v1FoEZAJdOqFaMVwd4 Sq/TPuPgZC4kP8Q/fv2nsZMQc1b8gd8IhKn5oQZdBh8Ke+7KVbxc5wGP/dkVGQnzo+kP r0KOBQ5rp9r0d3BXetyuiUueXt9B6iMygFf8a+1krSi897JxInTPVTbqXWnZRB3NFWIT 78o4ynoVlemHkjEAfhOAp6G7eMA3J3zkOZGASsZobUpDz5EpRaNo7a17rng0r8X7pVXp LsGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5M0MJlJyPL7BevTqAhZjq1Pm9aULDZ5JWYC6aPHs0OILFFXFLs GLle/4htF/zUQjVcn0s5JwVk7u7ykAdM4vupG929fhr4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYyQJ+KdPcQxu38b6UzZRgqWc95OfQPTKEO1vdg9J0NV8rEEZqIxrZuWre9JewJyTZwPl+gMu1kWYIMmd+vroU= X-Received: by 10.223.160.230 with SMTP id n35mr14348782wrn.116.1510754162105; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:56:01 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cHHTs_u8HqnbQYDeI3pRwWFx7rU Message-ID: To: Susan Hares Cc: idr wg , idr-chairs@ietf.org, idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0756102ce3c6055e05ddd2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:56:11 -0000 --94eb2c0756102ce3c6055e05ddd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am concerned with the lack of clear description of what router which supports extended msg should do when on one side he receives an attribute bigger then 4K and not of all it's peers can handle it. IMO the below statement is true but a bit too vague: "Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure. =E2=80=8B" =E2=80=8BAnd the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in fact generated such attribute =E2=80=8B be it on purpose or by error will not find out that its propagation has failed one or N hops away. =E2=80=8BToday when one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug) = it will fail locally, generate syslog etc ... =E2=80=8B Any comments from authors and WG on that ? Thx, R. =E2=80=8B On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. > Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for > publication. > > > > Susan Hares > > > > PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --94eb2c0756102ce3c6055e05ddd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am concerned with the lack= of clear description of what router which supports extended msg should do= =C2=A0
<= font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">when on one side he receives an = attribute bigger then 4K and not of all it's peers can handle it.

IMO= the below statement is true but a bit too vague:

"Therefore putting=C2=A0an attribute which can not be d= ecomposed to 4096 octets or less in an
   Extended Me=
ssage is a likely path to routing failure.
=E2=80=8B"
<= br>
=E2=80=8BAnd the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in =
fact generated 
such attribute =E2=80=8B
be it on purpo=
se or by error will not find out that its propagation has
f= ailed one or N hops away. 
=

=E2=80=8BToday w=
hen one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug) it will fail loc=
ally, 
generate syslog etc ... =E2=80=8B

Any comments from authors and WG on that ?

Thx,
R.




=

=E2=80=8B

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:47 P= M, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

This begins = a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/2= 6).=C2=A0 Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publica= tion.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =

=C2=A0

Susan Hares=

=C2=A0

PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:<= u>

https://www.ietf= .org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html=

=C2=A0

<= u>=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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OzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfaXCHALN014ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 19:43:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4514212948A; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:43:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j2-80rtTQ5ox; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from guelah.shrubbery.net (guelah.shrubbery.net [198.58.5.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352E012945D; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by guelah.shrubbery.net (Postfix, from userid 7053) id A5FB35C923; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:43:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:43:49 +0000 From: heasley To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: Robert Raszuk , Susan Hares , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171116034349.GC43959@shrubbery.net> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> X-PGPkey: http://www.shrubbery.net/~heas/public-key.asc X-note: live free, or die! X-homer: i just want to have a beer while i am caring. X-Claimation: an engineer needs a manager like a fish needs a bicycle X-reality: only YOU can put an end to the embarrassment that is Tom Cruise User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:43:52 -0000 Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 07:24:12PM +0000, Jakob Heitz (jheitz): > Good point Robert. How about adding something like: > > Certain features used by some BGP speakers require the use of extended messages. > Such features are indicated with a BGP capability. > If a BGP speaker sends an extended message to a second speaker, but that message > does not use a feature that requires extended messages, then the contents of that > message may not be distributed correctly throughout the BGP space to which that content is targeted. > This is because while the immediate neighbor speaker may support extended messages, every > BGP speaker within the said BGP space might not support extended messages. > > For example, a certain BGP feature requires the use of a large BGP attribute. > This feature is not supported by every BGP speaker within a BGP space. > BGP updates with the large attribute removed might be acceptable to speakers > that do not support the feature, even though functionality is reduced without the feature. > If such a BGP update is longer than 4096 octets when the > large attribute is removed, then it cannot be distributed to those speakers. > > To prevent the failures outlined above, a BGP speaker SHOULD not generate a message > that is longer than 4096 octets if a feature that requires extended messages is not used. > Furthermore, a BGP speaker SHOULD not generate a message that cannot be reduced to > 4096 octets or less by another speaker that needs to remove the feature that requires > extended messages. A feature that requires large attributes would also require extended messages and if the capabilities do not reflect both, I expect the open would fail and the capability would be excluded subsequently. Are there features requiring extended communities that are not themselves represented by a capability? Implying that those attributes would naturally be removed, leaving the normal reduction of NLRI to fit within the former msg limit? not that some manner of feedback is not necessary. a route could contain a mix of community attributes leading it to exceed the former msg limit. And 4271 offers no direction for that case either. I expect the update to be discarded and a trap and syslog is generated, but I do not know. > Thanks, > Jakob > > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 5:56 AM > To: Susan Hares > Cc: idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) > > Hi, > > I am concerned with the lack of clear description of what router which supports extended msg should do > when on one side he receives an attribute bigger then 4K and not of all it's peers can handle it. > > IMO the below statement is true but a bit too vague: > > "Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in an > > Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure. > > ​" > > > > ​And the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in fact generated > > such attribute ​ > > be it on purpose or by error will not find out that its propagation has > > failed one or N hops away. > > > > ​Today when one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug) it will fail locally, > > generate syslog etc ... ​ > > > > > > Any comments from authors and WG on that ? > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > ​ > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Susan Hares > wrote: > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publication. > > Susan Hares > > PS – the request for this WG LC is at: > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Nov 15 20:03:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FCF1294BC; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:03:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, 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-0600 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , Robert Raszuk , Susan Hares CC: idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQCRCmeAAAKXf6AADgWzoAAEnWDQ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:08:59 +0000 Message-ID: <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.32.47] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835XCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:09:15 -0000 --_000_5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835XCHALN014ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIHJlYXNvbiBJIHdlbnQgZnVydGhlciB0aGFuIHRoYXQgaXMgdGhhdCB3aXRoIGV4dGVuZGVk IG1lc3NhZ2VzLCBpdCdzIG5vdCBqdXN0IGFib3V0IGEgc3BlYWtlciBhbmQgaXRzIG5laWdoYm9y IGFueW1vcmUsIGl0J3MgYWJvdXQgYSB3aG9sZSBCR1Agc3BhY2UuDQoNCldlIHNob3VsZCBwcm9i YWJseSBnbyBmdXJ0aGVyIHN0aWxsIGFuZCBzYXk6DQoNCkJHUCBzcGVha2VycyB0aGF0IGFyZSBu b3QgdXNpbmcgZmVhdHVyZXMgdGhhdCBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHkgcmVxdWlyZSBleHRlbmRlZCBtZXNz 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Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.32.47] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:11:33 -0000 UkZDIDQyNzEgZG9lcyBub3QgYWRkcmVzcyB0aGUgaXNzdWUsIGJlY2F1c2UgYXQgdGhlIHRpbWUg dGhlcmUgd2VyZSBubyBmZWF0dXJlcyB0aGF0IHJlcXVpcmVkIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGxvbmdlciB0aGFu IDQwOTYgb2N0ZXRzLiBFeGNlZWRpbmcgdGhlIG1heGltdW0gbWVzc2FnZSBsZW5ndGgganVzdCBk aWRuJ3QgaGFwcGVuLiBOb3csIGl0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGFkZHJlc3NlZC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0K SmFrb2INCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaGVhc2xleSBbbWFp 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJZHIgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IElkckBp ZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86SWRyQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lkcg0KPiANCg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJZHIgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IElkckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lkcg0KDQo= From nobody Wed Nov 15 22:33:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAAC31294E8 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:33:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jcusIc2jN7hp for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E654129471 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eFDjo-0000jQ-Df; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:33:24 +0000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:33:21 +0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Jakob Heitz Cc: Interminable Discussion Room In-Reply-To: <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:33:28 -0000 > The reason I went further than that is that with extended messages, > it's not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's about a > whole BGP space. < bitchiness, it's been two weeks in s'pore > the original extended messages draft was restricted to update messages for the purpose of bgpsec. and bgpsec required it. and when bgpsec hits a neighbor which does not speak bgpsec, it strips all the crypto bloat and then the update fits in 4095 as it is the same as today. this was not an accident. but the idr wg, it its tradition of embellishment, asked for other messages to be extended (some suggested open be extended too, a real rat-hole). well, bright folk, you want it, you figure it out. send text. and small simple text, < 500 words. if you can not keep it simple, that should tell you something. rndy From nobody Wed Nov 15 22:49:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D293F1294E8; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:49:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151081497477.28361.350535994723435866@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:49:34 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6-09.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:49:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for IPv6 Authors : Danny McPherson Robert Raszuk Burjiz Pithawala Andy Karch Susan Hares Filename : draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6-09.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2017-11-15 Abstract: Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules [RFC5575] provides a protocol extension for propagation of traffic flow information for the purpose of rate limiting or filtering. The [RFC5575] specifies those extensions for IPv4 protocol data packets. This specification extends the current [RFC5575] and defines changes to the original document in order to make it also usable and applicable to IPv6 data packets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-v6-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 15 22:55:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16580129541 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:55:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hC6AluL1UdIq for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B7B012954E for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:55:39 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=31.133.139.117; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Randy Bush'" , "'Jakob Heitz'" Cc: "'Interminable Discussion Room'" References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:55:25 -0500 Message-ID: <011201d35ea7$e30bb120$a9231360$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQKpjm4z1eKV0TARayfWXPude0uJygKHumVeAXT/SekCOfGSowJRWfJ5AbXuX5ihGEIjsA== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:55:41 -0000 WG: [WG chair hat on] +1 - to randy request to send text. We've been through this draft before. Positive proposals that are brief will really help move this draft forward. [WG chair hat askew] -- it's been 7 days in Singapore with great network connectivity.. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:33 AM To: Jakob Heitz Cc: Interminable Discussion Room Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) > The reason I went further than that is that with extended messages, > it's not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's about a > whole BGP space. < bitchiness, it's been two weeks in s'pore > the original extended messages draft was restricted to update messages for the purpose of bgpsec. and bgpsec required it. and when bgpsec hits a neighbor which does not speak bgpsec, it strips all the crypto bloat and then the update fits in 4095 as it is the same as today. this was not an accident. but the idr wg, it its tradition of embellishment, asked for other messages to be extended (some suggested open be extended too, a real rat-hole). well, bright folk, you want it, you figure it out. send text. and small simple text, < 500 words. if you can not keep it simple, that should tell you something. rndy _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Nov 15 23:03:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E571294F0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:03:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L84w0HOKd0CX for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75B4C1294B3 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eFECf-000175-1z; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:03:13 +0000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 15:03:11 +0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Acee Lindem Cc: Interminable Discussion Room In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:03:16 -0000 > Note that Network-Byte Order is the standard for IETF documents and at > least I don=A2t think it needs to be specified in every document with > packet encodings. See section 3.1 of > https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2360.txt yay! i can remove text. ty randy From nobody Thu Nov 16 00:00:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE61129A89; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:00:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eg3ETfXUBmR4; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D6A912947C; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id l22so22580277wrc.11; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:59:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=UTWkfs32R9kBlL9hvA438YjCQeLTrCKCh+VV1X6Mx58=; b=PsP4OxVa07KAPBJOfN7PwzsT9qA2og6lErhzSTmDin47zKhGNN1JizRxDijsY7Cgiq JreFTjLW5sxRSaJwo4U0ugw37Od2wEfPr8LZw0oxNQIKSvhdsqCTgRV5bAmmmzBTX2Ug aaASjMG4n8iMMVdYYrAfPAIRFoqLDflj05T0/h6oDscUAYtZO9S0KKE5pJfgJC0nX/7n kCkqKWcZ+hMnvvqHJBG0fit1UqEwjgQiN+Unxp5MO4Y1ijkiypfA0jtsJQkrBdraRHVx vxNH/1VfN28oGi+vuUyaY9vL6Kq7/8fk8tB7eUx61tYH9amYrcmfrC23ZF/cH1tezb7E ebVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UTWkfs32R9kBlL9hvA438YjCQeLTrCKCh+VV1X6Mx58=; b=mswTTYHZENWkDXZ0iP/x7Us5MT3naKchevWjXRqYdfD2Euu0JjADcMolv1HLanDC9M fijZOob5/JMtyOdB5u4dO3hgpYfO0LjRFVS6IfvLpoMMUoz3jLhenWXrS+e9vYRXACaU aJvJX3VfNea9LG8c60/LhvDV3+aB+ACsfUzy9HxwoHL2zxDMqLvt51NaY5vma2Al3Jag 0fWd0pjDnntl133Lpy9E9+T51PjOl0Lpnw1F54wae1sr2YZJ1qEp/ygUmknsH/jsIZah uOye4wXDCsNkdSkdOAPFG5SD1BH1u5n0tixIPrt4Xscc0Dy3CRwtm3SgBU+uS1XWFN3R Ssug== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6O5JTzX0OSIWuzpv+AVsGkXW++MEcMAP+u3RTb2VQHh3rIQ9bS at6xR+mfpgPPDkI/RSscEKQxULdRdR0o8iN/nDE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYRzexuQY4nTEdlZDKoGttcMXIXZN3qabHfJy6VcmhszJCr42/5qyoYqN/HL+iRrKR7+qmh4pSJstsFoyuk/rw= X-Received: by 10.223.171.6 with SMTP id q6mr638825wrc.117.1510819197623; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:59:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:59:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:59:56 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5fIIAEsRPGPrR9h80s8vFGDBEjs Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com, Susan Hares , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cb82c9823e5055e15012c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:00:08 -0000 --94eb2c1cb82c9823e5055e15012c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed this is the problem. My main concern is not about use by new attributes/apps which may not fit 4k msg and which can define what to do when mismatch occurs. My concern is on the lack of clear definition on what a BGP speaker should do 5 hops away from the sender when it receives say Extended Community or Large Community attributes of the size of 6k ? Maybe due to a bug or attack or xyz ... Sometimes it is save to drop just such attribute sometimes it is not even considering currently shipping attributes. And regardless if the attribute is dropped or entire update is dropped the real sender will have no clue about it. As far as proposing text .. one practical option I see which will allow to introduce extended msg without risk of breaking current networks would be to define a new BGP message type: "BGP LARGE UPDATE MSG". You still have the same problem there of handling support between new and old peers, but at least you are not potentially breaking what works today nor are introducing new attack vectors to existing deployments. //R. On Nov 16, 2017 14:09, "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" wrote: > The reason I went further than that is that with extended messages, it's > not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's about a whole BGP > space. > > > > We should probably go further still and say: > > > > BGP speakers that are not using features that specifically require > extended messages MUST NOT use extended messages. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:03 PM > *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) ; Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net>; Susan Hares > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > I was thinking of something more along the lines of > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606#section-8 e.g. > > > > =C2=A7 Guidance for Authors of BGP Specifications > > > > A document that specifies a new BGP attribute that may not fit in a > 4096-octet limit MUST provide specifics > > regarding how to advertise a BGP message larger than 4096 octets to a = speaker that does not support Extended Messages. In particular whether the = removal of the attribute is allowed/advertised or not. Trade-offs are likel= y similar to the ones discussed in RFC 7606. In particular, if the > > attribute in question has or may have an effect on route selection or > > installation, the presumption is that removing it is unsafe unless > > careful analysis proves otherwise. > > > > -- > > =E2=80=9CMulti-octet fields MUST be in network byte order.=E2=80=9D > > Possibly a reference could be added, specifying this =E2=80=9Cnetwork byt= e order=E2=80=9D. (especially for a MUST) > > > > Thanks, > > Regards, > > --Bruno > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:24 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk; Susan Hares > *Cc:* idr wg; idr-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Good point Robert. How about adding something like: > > > > Certain features used by some BGP speakers require the use of extended > messages. > > Such features are indicated with a BGP capability. > > If a BGP speaker sends an extended message to a second speaker, but that > message > > does not use a feature that requires extended messages, then the contents > of that > > message may not be distributed correctly throughout the BGP space to whic= h > that content is targeted. > > This is because while the immediate neighbor speaker may support extended > messages, every > > BGP speaker within the said BGP space might not support extended messages= . > > > > For example, a certain BGP feature requires the use of a large BGP > attribute. > > This feature is not supported by every BGP speaker within a BGP space. > > BGP updates with the large attribute removed might be acceptable to > speakers > > that do not support the feature, even though functionality is reduced > without the feature. > > If such a BGP update is longer than 4096 octets when the > > large attribute is removed, then it cannot be distributed to those > speakers. > > > > To prevent the failures outlined above, a BGP speaker SHOULD not generate > a message > > that is longer than 4096 octets if a feature that requires extended > messages is not used. > > Furthermore, a BGP speaker SHOULD not generate a message that cannot be > reduced to > > 4096 octets or less by another speaker that needs to remove the feature > that requires > > extended messages. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 15, 2017 5:56 AM > *To:* Susan Hares > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Hi, > > > > I am concerned with the lack of clear description of what router which > supports extended msg should do > > when on one side he receives an attribute bigger then 4K and not of all > it's peers can handle it. > > > > IMO the below statement is true but a bit too vague: > > > > "Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 > octets or less in an > > Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure. > > =E2=80=8B" > > > > =E2=80=8BAnd the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in fact generat= ed > > such attribute =E2=80=8B > > be it on purpose or by error will not find out that its propagation has > > failed one or N hops away. > > > > =E2=80=8BToday when one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug= ) it will fail locally, > > generate syslog etc ... =E2=80=8B > > > > > > Any comments from authors and WG on that ? > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > =E2=80=8B > > > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. > Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for > publication. > > > > Susan Hares > > > > PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > --94eb2c1cb82c9823e5055e15012c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Indeed this is the problem.

My main concern is not about use by new attributes/apps whi= ch may not fit 4k msg and which can define what to do when mismatch occurs.=

My concern is on the la= ck of clear definition on what a BGP speaker should do 5 hops away from the= sender when it receives say Extended Community or Large Community attribut= es of the size of 6k ? Maybe due to a bug or attack or xyz ...

Sometimes it is save to drop just su= ch attribute sometimes it is not even considering currently shipping attrib= utes. And regardless if the attribute is dropped or entire update is droppe= d the real sender will have no clue about it.

As far as proposing text .. one practical option I se= e which will allow to introduce extended msg without risk of breaking curre= nt networks would be to define a new BGP message type: "BGP LARGE UPDA= TE MSG".=C2=A0

You = still have the same problem there of handling support between new and old p= eers, but at least you are not potentially=C2=A0 breaking what works today = nor are introducing new attack vectors to existing deployments.

//R.




On Nov 16, 2017 14:09, &quo= t;Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz= @cisco.com> wrote:

The reason I went further than that is= that with extended messages, it's not just about a speaker and its nei= ghbor anymore, it's about a whole BGP space.

=C2=A0

We should probably go further still an= d say:

=C2=A0

BGP speakers that are not using featur= es that specifically require extended messages MUST NOT use extended messag= es.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@o= range.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:03 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Susan Har= es <shares@ndzh.com= >
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; id= r-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

I was thinking of something more along th= e lines of https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606#section-8 e.g.<= /span>

=C2=A0

=C2=A7 Guidance for Authors of BGP Specif= ications

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 A document that specifies a = new BGP attribute that may not fit in a 4096-octet limit MUST provide speci= fics

=C2=A0=C2=A0 regarding how to advertise a BGP message large=
r than 4096 octets to a speaker that does not support Extended Messages. In=
 particular whether the removal of the attribute is allowed/advertised or n=
ot. Trade-offs are likely similar to the ones discussed in RFC 7606. In particular, if the

=C2=A0=C2=A0 attribute in question has or may have a= n effect on route selection or

=C2=A0=C2=A0 installation, the presumption is that r= emoving it is unsafe unless

=C2=A0=C2=A0 careful analysis proves otherwise.

=C2=A0

--

=E2=80=9CMulti-octet fields MUST be in network byte =
order.=E2=80=9D
Possibly a reference could be added, specifying this =E2=80=9Cnetwork =
byte order=E2=80=9D. (especially for a MUST)

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Regards,

--Bruno

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@i= etf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:24 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; Susan Hares
Cc: idr wg; id= r-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Good point Robert. How about adding so= mething like:

=C2=A0

Certain features used by some BGP spea= kers require the use of extended messages.

Such features are indicated with a BGP= capability.

If a BGP speaker sends an extended mes= sage to a second speaker, but that message

does not use a feature that requires e= xtended messages, then the contents of that

message may not be distributed correct= ly throughout the BGP space to which that content is targeted.

This is because while the immediate ne= ighbor speaker may support extended messages, every

BGP speaker within the said BGP space = might not support extended messages.

=C2=A0

For example, a certain BGP feature req= uires the use of a large BGP attribute.

This feature is not supported by every= BGP speaker within a BGP space.

BGP updates with the large attribute r= emoved might be acceptable to speakers

that do not support the feature, even = though functionality is reduced without the feature.

If such a BGP update is longer than 40= 96 octets when the

large attribute is removed, then it ca= nnot be distributed to those speakers.

=C2=A0

To prevent the failures outlined above= , a BGP speaker SHOULD not generate a message

that is longer than 4096 octets if a f= eature that requires extended messages is not used.

Furthermore, a BGP speaker SHOULD not = generate a message that cannot be reduced to

4096 octets or less by another speaker= that needs to remove the feature that requires

extended messages.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I am concerned with the lack of clear description of what router which= supports extended msg should do=C2=A0

when on one side he receives an attribute bigger then 4K and not of al= l it's peers can handle it.

=C2=A0

IMO the below statement is true but a bit too vague:<= /u>

=C2=A0

"Therefore putting=C2=A0an attribute which can = not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in an

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Extended Message is a likely path to routing f=
ailure.
=
=E2=80=8B"
=C2=A0
=
=E2=80=8BAnd the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in fact generated=
 
such attribute =E2=80=8B
be it on purpose or by error will not find out that its pro=
pagation has 
failed one or N hops away. 
=C2=A0
=
=E2=80=8BToday when one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug) =
it will fail locally, 
g=
enerate syslog etc ... =E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0
A=
ny comments from authors and WG on that ?
=
=C2=A0
T=
hx,
R=
.
=
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=E2=80=8B

=C2=A0

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> = wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex= tended-messages (11/12 to 11/26).=C2=A0 Please note this draft has at = least 2 implementations. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Please comment on whether you fe= el this draft is ready for publication.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Susan Hares

=C2=A0

PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:

https://www.ietf.org/mail-ar= chive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=C2=A0

_____________________________________________________=
_________________________________________________________________=
___
=C2=A0
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des info=
rmations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. =
Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler=

a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces joi=
ntes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al=
tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
=C2=A0
This message and its attachments may contain confidential =
or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without aut=
horisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify th=
e sender and delete this message and its attachments.<=
/pre>

As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for message=
s that have been modified, changed or falsified.


Thank you.
--94eb2c1cb82c9823e5055e15012c-- From nobody Thu Nov 16 04:17:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1176812949A for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 48MFVmTDFon3 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-f52.google.com (mail-wm0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8540B12948F for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x63so2624768wmf.2 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:19 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=LdN2jl97xzfWi2K1+bfxdO7HwfylV4uIaJqmPYxgPdg=; b=YHWjOwIy1kRhkWAurg2/JlaenkJUjP+tbeO+VAIepnLi/iOXpKrn1sOh3nsdfLm3Lg vRqiZqYPGiYiCyRx2FgCNx0XhZn+kiGxrcUAyghgQUS7Vh0nkARLYhljmcEP5JQHYDRM e1ug14u9sAd9drY0bvqlCaV/aKgMYSLCD5bM0k2e4K+d7xcTXgB58hlkX1UmXv9YE4ot cR+RTZDSWVKeYPC8UWu8n9kbfO8wRkkkStGDyymilDdd2h2HDyVuND8LoeJDMXEZfPGz Jj5SLAd6pYSvKaagH20792DxJG0iDI9Q7V8rLeb2m0BXzwKrRo7L9Z0CDmyfN6NXxlHG Jxqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5Um15V+RwvNgFQFqRdpSvtOXg1eoSvKCV7mKHbPhGUvjltS7RV KnTZGyKMP3hxnPhDpiEWzJpDcw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZzrI9VtkTozVRu+BwG96gv1NuCCrwln8sN7Ik60hrflbWN2HeVCzv4cP4TpZEyMR9/fnRVPg== X-Received: by 10.80.170.204 with SMTP id r12mr2661271edc.220.1510834637647; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([89.200.15.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w51sm1048051edd.60.2017.11.16.04.17.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:17:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:17:15 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , bruno.decraene@orange.com, "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Susan Hares , idr wg Message-ID: <20171116121715.GF18459@Vurt.local> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:17:22 -0000 On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 08:59:56AM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > As far as proposing text .. one practical option I see which will allow to > introduce extended msg without risk of breaking current networks would be > to define a new BGP message type: "BGP LARGE UPDATE MSG". How is a new BGP message type any different than negotiating through a capability whether an extended message can be handled by the peer. > You still have the same problem there of handling support between new > and old peers, but at least you are not potentially breaking what > works today nor are introducing new attack vectors to existing > deployments. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Kind regards, Job From nobody Thu Nov 16 05:09:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E632A1294E9 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SY5pnRW6s27v for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-f41.google.com (mail-pg0-f41.google.com [74.125.83.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71E58129505 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id j16so15026451pgn.9 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:05 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=RYEzgZAgw3zV7T2O5zjkJdPNU2Ehv6GxPcnR0US4Feg=; b=bJYnmVPpMXqF/9ikxNkRls1GD8qD4V3UhBSfUIOhgCyTWQW76Ew7GrejTzYnitv+BY M1rdrXZ3cBh1eXzUeNOZGy6HO//lt5WWcNs72DaAtKah7vGySqmPmcZwOrjRucnABisa rkHvlDbEWYWyibNd7nTQ5FhMwhJdCtNDawa/krogyBw43Dq7EVvwHsgWinR04eaSCdND xwOFnC/2hfcg6Y0jnNQcdClMHEyNRL7BW5zf1nUXxSg8IWSPK3+pyw69JUalRyjsok+a YDOcy+DFzmtLL+pa6IVaZvfqX3/er/nQaK84NnaLxDKSDJ4zWadvlgfvlje9d+Dyp06I /N2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4DdDRhPFnRI7LcWkq1vixaa/rTe1LBueG2N4YLlnYKJU1HBKsh bVuyvBMRqGkbprcGI6qo7KaQ6A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYiHyCwDXQ0keAu015Fb1va9ZlKq6BILTE5ohzYF4iFOpVXZOMlgQQJ7cKb8SXTvX6hELHxfw== X-Received: by 10.159.218.72 with SMTP id x8mr1668890plv.257.1510837744543; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2001:67c:208c:10:b412:7a35:b5f8:5410]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v76sm3192248pfk.78.2017.11.16.05.09.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:09:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:09:01 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Susan Hares , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171116130901.GG18459@Vurt.local> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:09:13 -0000 On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 02:56:01PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > I am concerned with the lack of clear description of what router which > supports extended msg should do when on one side he receives an > attribute bigger then 4K and not of all it's peers can handle it. > > IMO the below statement is true but a bit too vague: > > "Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 > octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing > failure." > > And the worst part is that the BGP speaker which in fact generated > such attribute be it on purpose or by error will not find out that its > propagation has failed one or N hops away. > > Today when one is trying to inject msg over 4K (say due to a bug) it > will fail locally, generate syslog etc ... > > Any comments from authors and WG on that ? Let's not forget this draft idea has been around since 2011. To prevent path / routing failures, we'd better get a move on and start deplying. Kind regards, Job From nobody Thu Nov 16 05:15:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B80129526 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iA_oVzQPIv50 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-f53.google.com (mail-pg0-f53.google.com [74.125.83.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D60CB1294F4 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 207so17758377pgc.12 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:16 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=zZvVR0wC6ZhfldM/8P9g8WtonljaHvD115dfWBWTFS8=; b=Et6IIRf2R1JMHcq+IY7izRNZwsr9UsJ8camE8K5/5G6GcBFODFRQOQmmHUwmWYDz1g VI7u+QPyaJYdQYc9YgpqNJQJxZFtKye6SdGzZTWhYgnXku71cPDgvf/XoOS5s8bjYgyv Np+JfQvfJbC6pix7qvzORW1NotSJTvTogUev2k4cDLjgWlHEwhfA4S6rl/pOnUagFl/m A/BH8/rkvc6DIIgMEoObvxSSfW/SSdU4ZEhF76xSezM5MwTcL8lcEoEAGLj0ZHR1ou82 xR057VhoE0SAXVex2xTIyUVpjm9X+AIIq9jc5o82ycNyrn9gE7GM9nvz5Fbt/74+NeWS /VFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5p/IuDfm6AgTepYKo3UZuUDOoztmkviuFYZI8OnfWIZfR3zYQv 8sPY7ADY4R6FPOXsfM4vYylLXw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYQk3yktULvDyn4xCJYFNCdRoD6aBIeP8FdmJ1RxPewziZkaF3cYY1vlzBO99H++FGuIqol3w== X-Received: by 10.101.65.2 with SMTP id w2mr1689801pgp.131.1510838116082; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2001:67c:208c:10:b412:7a35:b5f8:5410]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s4sm3718662pgp.40.2017.11.16.05.15.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:15:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:15:11 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: Susan Hares , idr wg , santiago@crfreenet.org Message-ID: <20171116131511.GH18459@Vurt.local> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <5A0C3D0B.6030704@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:20 -0000 On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 02:16:00PM +0100, Job Snijders wrote: > Susan Hares wrote: > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 > > implementations. > > The implementation report is available here: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations It appears that BIRD also has an implementation. (I have not tested it, so I won't add it myself to the implementation wiki page) """ enable extended messages [switch] The BGP protocol uses maximum message length of 4096 bytes. This option provides an extension to allow extended messages with length up to 65535 bytes. Default: off. """ http://bird.network.cz/?get_doc&f=bird-6.html#ss6.3 Kind regards, Job From nobody Thu Nov 16 05:28:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEF9129505 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ldvMWokJ8irM for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B886C12945F for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 70so2917456wmf.1 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=w4wLwsuS1xsj59NaxNmNYEzlmzwh8LWc3WecVuw8g58=; b=HtwgzEAQ8nJswJGiOC3DnZW2oSwpfYT/C93jG0Pmlchv5Nz5+OKmbR83VVVvdjIq/A TCdGOyk4iDhj9bG0HeMsWIrlrP3OTcBlhckSuVuisDZ2zBK7oie/NK6v5HG6V1fpxHhe qAZmQ2TBBJ6qgD4ZOySgKExew9BWcDNtj6gRmpDUkVMAvGm8kpFOlFj3a16GfhOIeKuM BqChChNYBlGAtTfDYu8fNMOQ5ViEPyopktAk3lky359AtNpPp8BA9GFOiKt58SlCiXlS lZLKYO3kX9C4GX5NuT1wT/TtB4DC+Kv7L8WhEYPBgRcRDDAVU4+cekxEDL4nFV94D/Oq 1wCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w4wLwsuS1xsj59NaxNmNYEzlmzwh8LWc3WecVuw8g58=; b=PrN8m2cxvRLBlrINqXC+3+7l5KJKUGBamIVtQ3vp4/JvGMuVJ2PKokUEJ7zUr4dk7P 8b0hARX4PNBPjXk0JedNxXBk60gh6onyh4F11WvP1qfIZqTSHyiHLLHI0jY1ABAtWN/B Rr97efS40cec6mEV8R/tUz0z2JY3zYiIcyIyhg8JFHcGOG2PX7UxiRlNq/x6IQVYWS85 zCGXFIH2+3NjbhVKqbkdYI4Thw5DzwAm7E5jSiSp4o5CFrImrp604kim8JFQNxttQIAo 1hqkZb1ZJ8ue2BuEXgDr7K0KcUi9UEf5FRMUWt5TMVJHEN2++roipPwYh5qAQQoYqfmn kmWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4tl4PJ8y5KuUYnlzufChrwLmOi4A8BoaUHlLLVecjs4LsA//3k 547opFNKiD7MlOYqMwUcfWXQgf1smYqajqymPD5ALQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbS4EJX3tb95Fk7QFIl/cR749uvVxwpCnhGgEL1NHpNuzMJrYdmphSonQk6z9f5ZbFIpEYdo6jNn1e2UnGge4g= X-Received: by 10.223.136.250 with SMTP id g55mr1549323wrg.54.1510838931982; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171116121715.GF18459@Vurt.local> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <20171116121715.GF18459@Vurt.local> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:28:51 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zZyJhTeJp4gb1PKmaxcpAk0cPOw Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Susan Hares , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11491d2ada8ef1055e199939" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:28:56 -0000 --001a11491d2ada8ef1055e199939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > How is a new BGP message type any different than negotiating through a > capability whether an extended message can be handled by the peer. > =E2=80=8BBecause it is not about what your peer can handle. It is about wha= t *all* BGP speakers can handle and what to do when you get to narrow street with this truck. it is mainly about not breaking what works today as discussed already when someone will send 5K of Large Community Attribute. =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BMaybe rather then new message the draft could simply say that none= of existing BGP Attributes (defined before this RFC goes out) MUST ever exceed 4K in total and only the new attributes will =E2=80=8Bbe allowed to be big = if they want - then I am happy to keep all in current UPDATE msg type. And the new fat attributes specs as Bruno suggested must describe on their own how to handle peers with only 4K messages. Peace ? Cheers, R. PS. The fact that spec been around from 2011 and has no major implementation (Cisco, Arista, Juniper, Nokia etc..) does not really help ... --001a11491d2ada8ef1055e199939 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How is a new BGP message type any different than= negotiating through a
capability whether an extended message can be handled by the peer.

=E2=80=8BBecause it is not a= bout what your peer can handle. It is about what *all* BGP speakers can han= dle and what to do when you get to narrow street with this truck.

it is mainly about not breaking= what works today as discussed already when someone will send 5K of Large C= ommunity Attribute.
=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8BMaybe rather then new message the draft could simply= say that none of existing BGP Attributes (defined before this RFC goes out= ) MUST ever exceed 4K in total and only the new attributes will =E2=80=8Bbe= allowed to be big if they want - then I am happy to keep all in current UP= DATE msg type. And the new fat attributes specs as Bruno suggested must des= cribe on their own how to handle peers with only 4K messages.=C2=A0

Peace ?

Cheers,
R.

PS. The fact that spec b= een around from 2011 and has no major implementation (Cisco, Arista, Junipe= r, Nokia etc..) does not really help ...

--001a11491d2ada8ef1055e199939-- From nobody Thu Nov 16 07:49:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76FF126DC2; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:49:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151084735467.28307.7683355622336845039@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:49:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 15:49:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Dissemination of NVO3 Flow Specification Rules Authors : Donald Eastlake Weiguo Hao Shunwan Zhuang Zhenbin Li Rong Gu Filename : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2017-11-16 Abstract: This draft proposes a new subset of component types to support the NVO3 flow-spec application. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 16 12:00:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E501D129B30 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:00:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WP5YVcLJuXav for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11EB5129B16 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:00:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1586; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510862426; x=1512072026; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=wR/AW2iGYdBWoSYXKumRD/JnjDNKNra/OtvKyy0G0qI=; b=jHMDA6JxqgF9c8Nh/GflfJs2IJHqi5hAcYtnaM1OgTi8Df++jBZZy0oS 1Q9RepuAYpC4LSuJISrYpLyKui7hw1930tSfuMZhppIMFB4aNZkPLbiGr jT/qy+xYFP4gH2DjuwXk0291nKvm0F1nFW2SdvkNHzBuX6Yoi02tb7KkN A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A0AgD77A1a/4oNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM2ZG4nB509gX2YcAolhRYChF9CFQEBAQEBAQEBAWsohR4BAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?DATo/BQcEAgEIEQQBAR8JBzIUCQgCBA4FCIoUCBCrSIsSAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBGAWDNIEOeYFVhRSDRIdMBaI7AodujRGCHpEzijSCPYkSAhEZAYE?= =?us-ascii?q?4ATUjQ4ExehWDLYJcHBmBTncBinCBEQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,405,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="31945607" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 16 Nov 2017 20:00:25 +0000 Received: from xch-rcd-011.cisco.com (xch-rcd-011.cisco.com [173.37.102.21]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAGK0P6a003709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:00:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-014.cisco.com (173.36.7.24) by XCH-RCD-011.cisco.com (173.37.102.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:00:24 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-014.cisco.com ([173.36.7.24]) by XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com ([173.36.7.24]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:00:24 -0600 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Randy Bush CC: Interminable Discussion Room Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQCRCmeAAAKXf6AADgWzoAAEnWDQAA2aSYAAD2nugA== Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:00:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.131.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:00:31 -0000 Yes, extended-messages was originally proposed, because bgpsec required it. However, it doesn't anymore, because it is now using a shorter signature th= an before. https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol-23.tx= t There are some cases in EVPN that require lots of extended communities to b= e sent. This is why in my proposed text, I said "feature" not "capability". Thanks, Jakob -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:33 PM To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) Cc: Interminable Discussion Room Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (= 11/12 to 11/26) > The reason I went further than that is that with extended messages, > it's not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's about a > whole BGP space. < bitchiness, it's been two weeks in s'pore > the original extended messages draft was restricted to update messages for the purpose of bgpsec. and bgpsec required it. and when bgpsec hits a neighbor which does not speak bgpsec, it strips all the crypto bloat and then the update fits in 4095 as it is the same as today. this was not an accident. but the idr wg, it its tradition of embellishment, asked for other messages to be extended (some suggested open be extended too, a real rat-hole). well, bright folk, you want it, you figure it out. send text. and small simple text, < 500 words. if you can not keep it simple, that should tell you something. rndy From nobody Fri Nov 17 08:04:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2259D1273B1 for ; 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Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:04:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:04:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:04:53 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _OhpR-ZbuKN3wuTscnXCNDcjOmM Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: Interminable Discussion Room Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cb82cb80270055e2fe52b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:04:58 -0000 --94eb2c1cb82cb80270055e2fe52b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jakob, So if this is no longer needed for bgpsec perhaps you can share with IDR what type of cargo BESS cooked for BGP transport jets to now carry ? Millions of MAC addresses packed into extended communities ? Something worse ? Thanks a lot, Robert. On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:00 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > Yes, extended-messages was originally proposed, because bgpsec required it. > However, it doesn't anymore, because it is now using a shorter signature > than before. > https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol-23.txt > > There are some cases in EVPN that require lots of extended communities to > be sent. > This is why in my proposed text, I said "feature" not "capability". > > Thanks, > Jakob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:33 PM > To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > Cc: Interminable Discussion Room > Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > The reason I went further than that is that with extended messages, > > it's not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's about a > > whole BGP space. > > < bitchiness, it's been two weeks in s'pore > > > the original extended messages draft was restricted to update messages > for the purpose of bgpsec. and bgpsec required it. and when bgpsec > hits a neighbor which does not speak bgpsec, it strips all the crypto > bloat and then the update fits in 4095 as it is the same as today. this > was not an accident. > > but the idr wg, it its tradition of embellishment, asked for other > messages to be extended (some suggested open be extended too, a real > rat-hole). well, bright folk, you want it, you figure it out. send > text. and small simple text, < 500 words. if you can not keep it > simple, that should tell you something. > > rndy > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --94eb2c1cb82cb80270055e2fe52b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jakob,

<= /div>
So if this is no longer needed for bgpsec perhaps y= ou can share with IDR what type of cargo BESS cooked for BGP transport jets= to now carry ?

Millio= ns of MAC addresses packed into extended communities ? Something worse ?

Thanks a lot,
Robert.


On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:00 PM, Jak= ob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com> wrote:
Yes, extended-messages was originally proposed, because bg= psec required it.
However, it doesn't anymore, because it is now using a shorter signatur= e than before.
https://tools.ietf.org/<= wbr>rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol-23.txt

There are some cases in EVPN that require lots of extended communities to b= e sent.
This is why in my proposed text, I said "feature" not "capab= ility".

Thanks,
Jakob


-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com= ]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:33 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cis= co.com>
Cc: Interminable Discussion Room <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges (11/12 to 11/26)

> The reason I went furth= er than that is that with extended messages,
> it's not just about a speaker and its neighbor anymore, it's a= bout a
> whole BGP space.

< bitchiness, it's been two weeks in s'pore >

the original extended messages draft was restricted to update messages
for the purpose of bgpsec.=C2=A0 and bgpsec required it.=C2=A0 and when bgp= sec
hits a neighbor which does not speak bgpsec, it strips all the crypto
bloat and then the update fits in 4095 as it is the same as today.=C2=A0 th= is
was not an accident.

but the idr wg, it its tradition of embellishment, asked for other
messages to be extended (some suggested open be extended too, a real
rat-hole).=C2=A0 well, bright folk, you want it, you figure it out.=C2=A0 s= end
text.=C2=A0 and small simple text, < 500 words.=C2=A0 if you can not kee= p it
simple, that should tell you something.

rndy

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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-0600 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Interminable Discussion Room Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQCRCmeAAAKXf6AADgWzoAAEnWDQAA2aSYAAD2nugAA21pSAAAflG9A= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:22:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.131.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e0d75bb572454c15b50279cdf676c359XCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir 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text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:55:15 -0000 Hi Robert, On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 02:28:51PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > How is a new BGP message type any different than negotiating through > > a capability whether an extended message can be handled by the peer. > > Because it is not about what your peer can handle. It is about what > *all* BGP speakers can handle and what to do when you get to narrow > street with this truck. > > it is mainly about not breaking what works today as discussed already > when someone will send 5K of Large Community Attribute. > > Maybe rather then new message the draft could simply say that none of > existing BGP Attributes (defined before this RFC goes out) MUST ever > exceed 4K in total and only the new attributes will be allowed to be > big if they want - then I am happy to keep all in current UPDATE msg > type. And the new fat attributes specs as Bruno suggested must > describe on their own how to handle peers with only 4K messages. > > Peace ? This is an interesting angle. Your proposal allows for the specification (and hopefully more code) to start shipping, and at a later point the flood gates can be opened (for 'old world' attributes) if the WG deems tjat appropiate. Proposed text: ---- OLD: A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure. NEW: A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure. It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages. Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle peers which can only accomodate 4096 octet messages. ---- Kind regards, Job ps. Since I don't think we can say "we'll never need larger than 4096", I think it is important to get this one shipped. The curious thing is that we'll need to have code deployed in the wild, _before_ any application can start using it. The WG LC is about a reasonable proposal to bump the limit in a way that is incrementally deployable (e.g. capability negotated). From nobody Sat Nov 18 17:48:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE74126C19 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 17:48:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eyX4NgX7wyro for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 17:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1629126557 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 17:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eGEj1-0003HZ-2f; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 01:48:47 +0000 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 08:48:43 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Jakob Heitz Cc: Interminable Discussion Room In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <43b50b8982fe411fa275b294c210edfa@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <13899_1510805003_5A0D0E0B_13899_270_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478F0F5B@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5de035082ecf4b458c53dd543ace3835@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 01:48:51 -0000 > Yes, extended-messages was originally proposed, because bgpsec required it. > However, it doesn't anymore, because it is now using a shorter signature > than before. this statement is untrue From nobody Sat Nov 18 18:04:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07651252BA; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:04:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151105705962.26857.7100624095643003630@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:04:19 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-24.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 02:04:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Extended Message support for BGP Authors : Randy Bush Keyur Patel Dave Ward Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-24.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2017-11-18 Abstract: The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096 octets. As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets. This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN message. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-24 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-24 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Nov 18 22:04:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5F0126CC4 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:04:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLtWzIaaL9sP for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:04:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CC1B124D37 for ; 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charset=ISO-2022-JP Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:36:20 -0000 > Look for $B!H(Bextended$B!I(B in this diff. All references to extended messages > were removed in draft 23. > https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol-23.txt to get it past the normative ref problem as extended messages was stuck in the idr From nobody Sun Nov 19 01:03:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C85E126BF3 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 01:03:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from 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<20171117185505.GD16801@Vurt.local> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 23:04:50 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: JZFudKfRBJuDCty65XpWFuD9JLc Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Susan Hares , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043868bcaba838055e5d28bf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 22:04:55 -0000 --f403043868bcaba838055e5d28bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Job, The new proposed text is an improvement, but it still does not describe what a BGP speaker should do when receiving any existing attribute (say extended community) packed with RTs exceeding in total 4K and needs to send it to "old" peer. IMO we do need to define the recommended behavior before we progress this to RFC. Just like we did so in migration to 4 octet AS in rfc6793. Possible options: 1. Drop the update (bit ugly as such drop will be silent .. other then local syslog/error report) 2. Drop the big attribute and insert defined here standard community or some other marker indicating MSG_TRUNCATED info. More ? Thx, R. On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi Robert, > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 02:28:51PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > How is a new BGP message type any different than negotiating through > > > a capability whether an extended message can be handled by the peer. > > > > Because it is not about what your peer can handle. It is about what > > *all* BGP speakers can handle and what to do when you get to narrow > > street with this truck. > > > > it is mainly about not breaking what works today as discussed already > > when someone will send 5K of Large Community Attribute. > > > > Maybe rather then new message the draft could simply say that none of > > existing BGP Attributes (defined before this RFC goes out) MUST ever > > exceed 4K in total and only the new attributes will be allowed to be > > big if they want - then I am happy to keep all in current UPDATE msg > > type. And the new fat attributes specs as Bruno suggested must > > describe on their own how to handle peers with only 4K messages. > > > > Peace ? > > This is an interesting angle. Your proposal allows for the specification > (and hopefully more code) to start shipping, and at a later point the > flood gates can be opened (for 'old world' attributes) if the WG deems > tjat appropiate. > > Proposed text: > > ---- > OLD: > A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout > the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP > speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. > Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 > octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing > failure. > > NEW: > A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout > the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP > speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. > Therefore putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 > octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing > failure. > > It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are > conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages. > Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle > peers which can only accomodate 4096 octet messages. > ---- > > Kind regards, > > Job > > ps. Since I don't think we can say "we'll never need larger than 4096", > I think it is important to get this one shipped. The curious thing is > that we'll need to have code deployed in the wild, _before_ any > application can start using it. The WG LC is about a reasonable proposal > to bump the limit in a way that is incrementally deployable (e.g. > capability negotated). > --f403043868bcaba838055e5d28bf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Job,

The new proposed text is an improvement, but it still= does not describe what a BGP speaker should do when receiving any existing= attribute (say extended community) packed with RTs exceeding in total 4K a= nd needs to send it to "old" peer.=C2=A0
=
IMO we do need to define the recommended behav= ior before we progress this to RFC. Just like we did so in migration to 4 o= ctet AS in rfc6793.

Po= ssible options:

1.= Drop the update (bit ugly as such drop will be silent .. other then local = syslog/error report)

2= . Drop the big attribute and insert defined here standard community or some= other marker indicating MSG_TRUNCATED info.=C2=A0
=
More ?

Thx,
R.

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 7:= 55 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
Hi Robert,

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 02:28:51PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> > How is a new BGP message type any different than negotiating thro= ugh
> > a capability whether an extended message can be handled by the pe= er.
>
> Because it is not about what your peer can handle. It is about what > *all* BGP speakers can handle and what to do when you get to narrow > street with this truck.
>
> it is mainly about not breaking what works today as discussed already<= br> > when someone will send 5K of Large Community Attribute.
>
> Maybe rather then new message the draft could simply say that none of<= br> > existing BGP Attributes (defined before this RFC goes out) MUST ever > exceed 4K in total and only the new attributes will be allowed to be > big if they want - then I am happy to keep all in current UPDATE msg > type. And the new fat attributes specs as Bruno suggested must
> describe on their own how to handle peers with only 4K messages.
>
> Peace ?

This is an interesting angle. Your proposal allows for the specifica= tion
(and hopefully more code) to start shipping, and at a later point the
flood gates can be opened (for 'old world' attributes) if the WG de= ems
tjat appropiate.

Proposed text:

----
OLD:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throug= hout
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Therefore putting an attribute which can not= be decomposed to 4096
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to rou= ting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 failure.

NEW:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throug= hout
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 speakers which do not have the Extended Message capability. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Therefore putting an attribute which can not= be decomposed to 4096
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to rou= ting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 failure.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and imp= lementers are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 conservative in their application and use of Extended Message= s.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to h= andle
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 peers which can only accomodate 4096 octet messages.
----

Kind regards,

Job

ps. Since I don't think we can say "we'll never need larger th= an 4096",
I think it is important to get this one shipped. The curious thing is
that we'll need to have code deployed in the wild, _before_ any
application can start using it. The WG LC is about a reasonable proposal to bump the limit in a way that is incrementally deployable (e.g.
capability negotated).

--f403043868bcaba838055e5d28bf-- From nobody Mon Nov 20 06:19:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2027E126C0F for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAjGgIxSeWtC for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 020AB129A90 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id x63so15829391ioe.6 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FseN8sGK6XjEKK7SS2FzKCqB2bR7TFfPrMs0cYuHvTo=; b=C/eDb3lP9OcWKn5iZP9WTAi3Ni4Y0a8NkQekfGaSf78aPyW0OOtiDdVOfNNz13N3TN yYyPxUevLPHKHxfe53RcB5Th4wAftaAqhau1qPQ2yOSErHzSNiP2997wt/j/sW/lmTnH MVi1esJCEMIKkR+xkS+ELgBdZIMB3kd2L/xXNPik7kYEF1SZfvHMGtFkBTtyd3ms+kf4 skjyQ/tlXGVf9rc37e9+s42FrzUcagLI93nhBBPOb3OCmsQzwtwFkWCb136hmjDvoVHH zSTygVfXIPzgilO2oWUBuZ4aZG+pTHb7JxMZSLP/zFu4nG5w0erWcDCnrmmfdERtjnKg /xFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FseN8sGK6XjEKK7SS2FzKCqB2bR7TFfPrMs0cYuHvTo=; b=sOb5sbcFLgeDMPewzEBqa/AzGXoLjENoKcdhUX0A1QXvVb3loBLb+FsGr10puT+H55 LYhBZQ4GHQ7Bnfk673slujV0a+XaTkt/miXMsQjk558eN4ympobJicO771XjS2NPKMeO KmgqTpEYN2SQ57bWwrsXloTep3qyaX641EIU2Xp2flWdTNyPMzBRmWlsv234FHcVfFN9 xx1vHBqwNQjp/r3ytxFI18Bd7FmgYG5nOvWPWUW8jJUGwyQApbEfuc3413pan+RR25pN H+6wEIs28IhFKjrwsNsfZba+m2uFd7q2bOu3KN3ggxitpv99U/QUtjNrgVn6Y1KCs2hk JgZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7v+9trCB7EIfANejylTIMQf2cQrW6KH1m6rByPug4rHgw1L1lB YD2F0UhNGZxu2UYQh5JYkPZDxC43FC5su466dUzKLA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaWd16XsD83t7F+jLR1tjm7Xr8jA6qvRHqWVPwPC5uYaI4sWeTmLtW8bsERgafQ+kgl5GLsyPG3JFl7Seq3GwM= X-Received: by 10.107.7.169 with SMTP id g41mr14422747ioi.38.1511187564020; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.134.37 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:19:23 -0800 (PST) From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:49:23 +0530 Message-ID: To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ec53cf15b9a055e6ac56f" Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:19:27 -0000 --001a113ec53cf15b9a055e6ac56f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2 is supposed to address some of the key deficiencies in the BGP-4 MIB [RFC4273] including the ability to monitor IPv6 BGP peering sessions and carry IPv6 reachability. However, that draft expired in 2014. Does anyone know why it didn't progress further? Is there any other draft or RFC replacing it? Regards, Muthu --001a113ec53cf15b9a055e6ac56f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2 is supposed to address some of the= key deficiencies in the BGP-4 MIB [RFC4273] including the ability to monit= or IPv6 BGP peering sessions and carry IPv6 reachability.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
However, that draft expired in 2014. Does anyone know why it di= dn't progress further? Is there any other draft or RFC replacing it?

Regards,
Muthu
--001a113ec53cf15b9a055e6ac56f-- From nobody Mon Nov 20 07:14:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C11129ADE for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:14:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L78DFIlTut7L for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39899129AC1 for ; 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20 Nov 2017 15:14:01 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAKFE1HO013171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:14:01 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 10:14:00 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 10:14:00 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 Thread-Index: AQHTYgqaPU73EXVN2U2vsPMt+Jaef6MdYEKA Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:14:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.198] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:38:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y_LfYdVEKCKu for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD637129B81 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:36:29 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from cupcake.local (089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAKEa9a1094492 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:36:10 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.local Message-ID: <5A12F675.2030106@foobar.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:36:21 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.20 (Macintosh/20171012) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" CC: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal , "idr@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:38:47 -0000 Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > The IETF has moved on from SNMP-based management to YANG, refer to this > IESG statement: > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/writable-mib-module.html the rest of the world is going to take many years to catch up with this decision - usable YANG is only beginning to make its way into a small segment of high-end kit out there, and there is a large segment of market kit where it is likely never to be deployed. In the meantime - in this particular situation - we have no means of monitoring ipv6 or vrf-enabled bgp sessions, other than screen-scraping. It shouldn't need pointing out that this is a deficit with serious operational consequences. Nick From nobody Mon Nov 20 08:45:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8504A129BC5 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jAhfbAeBppSC for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D06FD129B29 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id h205so15636631iof.5 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uJqZP4+JEbFTlKZSw9i95DvmTZesTDYED420xLx3WGM=; b=JUy+MWKN8oj9QWMLE/iZwvJ5+chqbBuhMvCCeReKDahtjbX94UAwex+zEWUhNgLVdW UTY0x7WvfoSySH8V8Fz666dxwTqaImIb7GiOBgg4TNsx9RzB+S9nZvNtPRT7OCmSFlRC y4d/OoIEGS3O96iOFEAcP3baOC6E5Vnzlz4AF6ytmKEG7mP2Oqgq9Xi+muJthL/YffIE ZpVHcNohmVvPFljRCQNd/IN7lY9vV6golEtzqARqkR1qghu7wD/g9WYeaXrchXUUEiJA zMpTQbUWIAsvm4nW/6gh/eN1tDcbgJRGAfR03rmSVduioZ8SFAZCLNVJrK4BXz+eUNJG tnPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uJqZP4+JEbFTlKZSw9i95DvmTZesTDYED420xLx3WGM=; b=maBO7Aom/J2gMB1fWyyey2PmLpjKxeUMXOwf9pFXVnSoBnJfQ/tCsSj/5YxMkg41Su bnf7vNfSpBWmmlG2eW3jiStIMRGrDhWPceq/X2gA2ZirIQQwM90UGr+wlTF+yLH6EolU cuN7sgr5uyruv0fNcGP5+DGAp8YnJJDYsvOLEE+c4P3kqma5ejMK2vM7b/ijq0E8Tk8g OjhQG1OtDevJyasOwLi54xIXwQPBvUT/iXsxvyeJybpIfZ7DBi1smmkn8aK/wpszvuKh flFkt7sJX+E1wwlwtwna4A7M2CHdA6/kuX2PyU+pAhm7pLcE7ppPBZEext6fKP2KJy90 pU9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7ngb7tUm1ucq0J/lmAYXib4hX0kzLvZBkm0o513SoglNHGFVRZ neYw1gr007ga2Jc+F8I6B3VkHgo/fhWuJXRyJIk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZbAcRz8qOH8nwrGyAplgZ+N41lZrgaP2I4cWVB9zZLXXMt+cpiKqyjt/Ej2PFN0YyWppenhFGcV4eTq6d5x88= X-Received: by 10.107.36.17 with SMTP id k17mr1602830iok.176.1511196334990; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.134.37 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:45:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:15:34 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "idr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11403450bbaa08055e6cd059" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:45:37 -0000 --001a11403450bbaa08055e6cd059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The IESG statement is about standards-based approaches to configuration, right? There are deployed SNMP based systems for monitoring that are crucial for network operation. What is our recommendation towards them? Regards, Muthu On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Muthu, > > The IETF has moved on from SNMP-based management to YANG, refer to this > IESG statement: > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/writable-mib-module.html > > Thanks, > Acee > > From: Idr on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal < > muthu.arul@gmail.com> > Date: Monday, November 20, 2017 at 9:19 AM > To: IDR List > Subject: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2 is supposed to address some of the key > deficiencies in the BGP-4 MIB [RFC4273] including the ability to monitor > IPv6 BGP peering sessions and carry IPv6 reachability. > > However, that draft expired in 2014. Does anyone know why it didn't > progress further? Is there any other draft or RFC replacing it? > > Regards, > Muthu > > --001a11403450bbaa08055e6cd059 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The IESG statement is about standards-b= ased approaches to configuration, right? There are deployed SNMP based syst= ems for monitoring that are crucial for network operation. What is our reco= mmendation towards them?

Regards,
Muthu
<= br>
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Acee Lindem = (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Muthu,=C2=A0

The IETF has moved on from SNMP-based management to YANG, refer to this IES= G statement:


Thanks,
Acee

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf= of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 20, 2017 at = 9:19 AM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-= idr-bgp4-mibv2-15

draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2 is= supposed to address some of the key deficiencies in the BGP-4 MIB [RFC4273= ] including the ability to monitor IPv6 BGP peering sessions and carry IPv6= reachability.

However, that draft expired = in 2014. Does anyone know why it didn't progress further? Is there any = other draft or RFC replacing it?

Regards,
Muthu

--001a11403450bbaa08055e6cd059-- From nobody Mon Nov 20 08:55:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BC1129C0C for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:55:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lOSTTCp7w1zd for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09FCB129C13 for ; 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20 Nov 2017 17:28:10 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAKHSA31004642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:28:10 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:28:09 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:28:09 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Nick Hilliard CC: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 Thread-Index: AQHTYgqaPU73EXVN2U2vsPMt+Jaef6MdYEKAgABaG4D//8I2AIAACSmA Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:28:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5A12F675.2030106@foobar.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.198] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9F9570A83BD31448BC7D6B1249E1E8DC@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:28:14 -0000 T1RPSCwgSSBsb29rZWQgYXQgdGhlIGV4cGlyZWQgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGl0IHNlZW1zIHByZXR0eSBz dHJhaWdodGZvcndhcmQuDQpBZGRpdGlvbmFsbHksIHRoZXJlIGlzIHN0aWxsIHdvcmsgZ29pbmcg b24gaW4gQkVTUyBvbiBuZWVkZWQgTUlCcyAoZS5nLik6DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIu aWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmVzcy1tdnBuLW1pYi8NCmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNr ZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmVzcy1sMmwzLXZwbi1tY2FzdC1taWIvDQoNClRo YW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCk9uIDExLzIwLzE3LCAxMTo1NSBBTSwgIkFjZWUgTGluZGVtIChhY2Vl KSIgPGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPkhpIE5pY2ssIA0KPg0KPkFzIHlvdSBrbm93 LCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgdmVuZG9yLXNwZWNpZmljIE1JQnMgdGhhdCBzYXRpc2Z5IHRoZSByZWZlcmVu Y2VkDQo+cmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLiBIb3dldmVyLCB1bmxlc3MgdGhlIElEUiBXRyB3ZXJlIHRvIGFn cmVlIG9uIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUNCj52ZW5kb3IgTUlCcywgaXQgd291bGQgbGlrZWx5IHRha2Ugc29t ZSB0aW1lIHRvIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplIE1JQiBleHRlbnNpb25zDQo+dG8gUkZDIDQyNzMuIEdpdmVu IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgb25seSBzbyBtdWNoIGVuZXJneSBpbiB0aGUgV0csIG15IG9waW5pb24N Cj5pcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBmb2N1cyBzaG91bGQgbm93IGJlIG9uIHB1Ymxpc2hpbmcgdGhlIEJHUCBh bmQgVlBOIFlBTkcgbW9kZWxzLg0KPkhvd2V2ZXIsIEkgd291bGQgbm90IGFjdGl2ZWx5IG9wcG9z ZSB3b3JrIG9uIElEUiBNSUIgZXh0ZW5zaW9ucy4NCj4NCj5UaGFua3MsDQo+QWNlZQ0KPlAuUy4g SSBrbmV3IEkgc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgbGVmdCB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCB0byB0aGUgY2hhaXJzIDteKQ0K Pg0KPk9uIDExLzIwLzE3LCAxMDozNiBBTSwgIk5pY2sgSGlsbGlhcmQiIDxuaWNrQGZvb2Jhci5v cmc+IHdyb3RlOg0KPg0KPj5BY2VlIExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkgd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4gVGhlIElFVEYg aGFzIG1vdmVkIG9uIGZyb20gU05NUC1iYXNlZCBtYW5hZ2VtZW50IHRvIFlBTkcsIHJlZmVyIHRv IHRoaXMNCj4+PiBJRVNHIHN0YXRlbWVudDoNCj4+PiANCj4+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9pZXNnL3N0YXRlbWVudC93cml0YWJsZS1taWItbW9kdWxlLmh0bWwNCj4+DQo+PnRoZSByZXN0 IG9mIHRoZSB3b3JsZCBpcyBnb2luZyB0byB0YWtlIG1hbnkgeWVhcnMgdG8gY2F0Y2ggdXAgd2l0 aCB0aGlzDQo+PmRlY2lzaW9uIC0gdXNhYmxlIFlBTkcgaXMgb25seSBiZWdpbm5pbmcgdG8gbWFr ZSBpdHMgd2F5IGludG8gYSBzbWFsbA0KPj5zZWdtZW50IG9mIGhpZ2gtZW5kIGtpdCBvdXQgdGhl cmUsIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIGxhcmdlIHNlZ21lbnQgb2YNCj4+bWFya2V0IGtpdCB3aGVyZSBp dCBpcyBsaWtlbHkgbmV2ZXIgdG8gYmUgZGVwbG95ZWQuDQo+Pg0KPj5JbiB0aGUgbWVhbnRpbWUg LSBpbiB0aGlzIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgc2l0dWF0aW9uIC0gd2UgaGF2ZSBubyBtZWFucyBvZg0KPj5t b25pdG9yaW5nIGlwdjYgb3IgdnJmLWVuYWJsZWQgYmdwIHNlc3Npb25zLCBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHNj cmVlbi1zY3JhcGluZy4NCj4+IEl0IHNob3VsZG4ndCBuZWVkIHBvaW50aW5nIG91dCB0aGF0IHRo aXMgaXMgYSBkZWZpY2l0IHdpdGggc2VyaW91cw0KPj5vcGVyYXRpb25hbCBjb25zZXF1ZW5jZXMu DQo+Pg0KPj5OaWNrDQo+DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Nov 21 02:26:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5DB129449; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ZJVLsIwcebb; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3A23129461; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id 894C81C054A; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:26:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id 753BA40612; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:26:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:26:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A4EBB6F4-0A87-406A-B35A-F52F55D94A9D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:26:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> Cc: idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, idr-ads@ietf.org To: idr-bounces@ietf.org References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:26:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A4EBB6F4-0A87-406A-B35A-F52F55D94A9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello Everyone, I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue = transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could = cause.=20 I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the = Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most = likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover this = issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So = while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things = worse from a specification POV. I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another = unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to = this draft. Sincerely, Thomas > On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages = (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 = implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is = ready for publication. =20 > =20 > Susan Hares=20 > =20 > PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html = > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = --Apple-Mail=_A4EBB6F4-0A87-406A-B35A-F52F55D94A9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hello Everyone,

I support the draft; and I therefore = implemented it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on the discussion = regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larger than 4k = total attributes size could cause. 

I would have no objection myself on = seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attribute set to prevent = backward compatibility as the most likely quick win is going to be on = packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to = cover this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem = today. So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make = things worse from a specification POV.

I am therefore wondering if this should = not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current = speakers and is not specific to this draft.

Sincerely,

Thomas

On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> = wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26).  Please note = this draft has at least 2 implementations.    Please = comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for = publication.   
 
Susan = Hares 
 
PS =E2=80=93= the request for this WG LC is at:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html=
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

= --Apple-Mail=_A4EBB6F4-0A87-406A-B35A-F52F55D94A9D-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 06:23:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCEF12948F; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:23:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LspR22YKZ4ZX; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x241.google.com (mail-wm0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4268129410; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x241.google.com with SMTP id l188so1972570wma.1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:23:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=VK555ftLTE2oCKmhzGmNXsE8KNTSQ+hL8tyQ/62XGyM=; b=sy79FON6G0686VOkrDUjp21oyU3UP0GzC+2NvNKaKO6D2sfYmwZOosJWgo+W0fKFQy hw/vV9HshrZniGj/BRfij+LGSKBqgdBPNLMqbRzQfoL4nIh6rxe/FXciIKdV2GR/C0Io LBw3WwH83gvhj2ip4h292kUOS5OcCZPA3iDh7u3inBxSsrv0MZYFGWuqO1XpZye8Hd34 D+ddwh/axyPkXapC8SNP3eVyHlRjzQfwKcvizFSQ3s2Cq1OSDfHuWGhinMGJOZukNMwT fRIQvGCbWXChYZyTs3T9dAXZfpMZOcwfgjaU2VI+wu3sN6+IKDtc3TfzhHmyLBfnOjoc 0EZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VK555ftLTE2oCKmhzGmNXsE8KNTSQ+hL8tyQ/62XGyM=; b=brkds3ZTBWAlm026gUTNFcX4UPdo3w9W9Re+JjGXAKFdebj5s4UA36SWRA9dbWkiPH 17kJSaz6NUnymmsJaDH0G9A9O2RuDlv/X020bMzx8IFkFWFSszGaHlaymcY2NGnaQFsZ i/TEQTpcwqprwCkKJ8935wh+TIWV1vtgIuHJQ3guFeIMap5HLx43lNUUfThOO4siySVK eWqBpkQcji+Hht6ANNAOoXePX8RJehHybyTcNffmu19r1d/Npyx7CXUMoPcG/+YIn1cD GWMBt25IHxoAiI5lmnYRtrckz/t1OCrZYyfhsmrpV5XerpdPBzr/InrVl5ashkVE5hak E4Sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX65fGg+RoZXGw6h5AXKq0VC1p81iTF4rsiY8ak5xvOymZgzLOOT UwUl27HNvgott8KO9HgBEbl9lalHQs+LQGpkSPFT/X4b X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMb1cIaFYEtUhTWrBY9J63IHXS8Mrxf7wncJt92dkl3hvW7NPI+C+f9jOBO5kM44Y0A7X4l9T1TOAXekEZBeRys= X-Received: by 10.28.5.201 with SMTP id 192mr1501141wmf.142.1511274169062; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:22:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:22:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:22:48 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nK72pd19eibFVLPY-1BFGShQCYs Message-ID: To: Thomas Mangin Cc: Idr , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143816e015c0f055e7ef0c2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:23:08 -0000 --001a1143816e015c0f055e7ef0c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a global/per peer knob ? - - - As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right it can fail today. But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will locally and immediately know that it failed. In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made it through as they intended. And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc Best, Robert. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. > > I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue > transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could cause= . > > I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the Tota= l > Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most likely > quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. > > That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover this > issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So whil= e > the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things worse from = a > specification POV. > > I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another > unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to th= is > draft. > > Sincerely, > > Thomas > > On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares wrote: > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations. > Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publication= . > > > Susan Hares > > PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --001a1143816e015c0f055e7ef0c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Thomas,

=
Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on = by default or do you need a global/per peer knob ?=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

=
As to your point that even today you may have the = same problem ... well if you consider the problem to be interworking betwee= n peers when one is already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff = ... you are right it can fail today.=C2=A0

But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. Th= e problem is that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to ex= isting update will locally and immediately know that it failed.=C2=A0
=

In the new model it is node= s far far away who happily injected larger then 4K update messages will nev= er know that their updates never made it through as they intended.

And since IDR and community fa= iled to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP providing a bit of a ops feedback b= etween peers and perhaps beyond we are where we are.=C2=A0https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin &= lt;thomas.man= gin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Eve= ryone,

I support the draft; and I therefore i= mplemented it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an = eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue transiting messages wit= h larger than 4k total attributes size could cause.=C2=A0

I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on th= e Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most li= kely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover t= his issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So wh= ile the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things worse fro= m a specification POV.

I am therefore wondering if= this should not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect curre= nt speakers and is not specific to this draft.

Sin= cerely,

Thomas

On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages= (11/12 to 11/26).=C2=A0 Please note this draft has at least 2 implementati= ons. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Please comment on whether you feel this draft is rea= dy for publication.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0<= /u>
Susan Hares=C2=A0
=C2=A0
PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:<= /u>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
 <=
/pre>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
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--001a1143816e015c0f055e7ef0c2-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 06:56:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F2F1294A1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:56:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kB0d0nOILvGd; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9C24129410; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id C08581C0703; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:56:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id AA368402AE; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:56:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:56:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EA737ACE-CD15-4DA5-A18B-9AC9708824E9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:56:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Idr , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org To: rraszuk@gmail.com References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:56:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EA737ACE-CD15-4DA5-A18B-9AC9708824E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello Robert, As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may = not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do = so IMHO. Thomas > On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > Hi Thomas, >=20 > Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you = need a global/per peer knob ?=20 >=20 > - - -=20 >=20 > As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... = well if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when = one is already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you = are right it can fail today.=20 >=20 > But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is = that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing = update will locally and immediately know that it failed.=20 >=20 > In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger = then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made it = through as they intended. >=20 > And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc >=20 > Best, > Robert. >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: > Hello Everyone, >=20 > I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. >=20 > I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue = transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could = cause.=20 >=20 > I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the = Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most = likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >=20 > That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover = this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. = So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things = worse from a specification POV. >=20 > I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another = unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to = this draft. >=20 > Sincerely, >=20 > Thomas >=20 >> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares > wrote: >>=20 >> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages = (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 = implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is = ready for publication. =20 >> =20 >> Susan Hares=20 >> =20 >> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html = >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_EA737ACE-CD15-4DA5-A18B-9AC9708824E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= Robert,

As this is = a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour.

I thought it made sense = to give the user control of this option: one may not want to enable the = feature - and therefore they should be able to do so IMHO.

Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

Hi = Thomas,

Great = that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a = global/per peer knob ? 

- - = - 

As to = your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well if you = consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is = already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right = it can fail today. 

But = this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in = the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will = locally and immediately know that it failed. 

In the = new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger then 4K = update messages will never know that their updates never made it through = as they intended.

And = since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I support the draft; = and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on the discussion = regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larger than 4k = total attributes size could cause. 

I would have no objection myself on = seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attribute set to prevent = backward compatibility as the most likely quick win is going to be on = packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to = cover this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem = today. So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make = things worse from a specification POV.

I am therefore wondering if this should = not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current = speakers and is not specific to this draft.

Sincerely,

Thomas

On 12 Nov = 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

This = begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26).  Please note this draft has = at least 2 implementations.    Please comment on whether = you feel this draft is ready for publication.   
 
Susan Hares 
 
PS = =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
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= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



= --Apple-Mail=_EA737ACE-CD15-4DA5-A18B-9AC9708824E9-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 07:03:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346DB1294A2; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uqa8fLK6SBP2; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x233.google.com (mail-wm0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 557D91294A1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y82so10387348wmg.1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=mkZGo5268BnAcWbAJD1sMGrFvpQoROSz7elnHZn6ME4=; b=tjh/vHLwCrcpPFsTwACkTXfKv9nxSsFQMSunTPK1ehvTKh+oRrgE5L2jBHtVinx8cw XP969lUEvD6h2j0kbh8Kx5mdJG1NnKv/HVH0gJxEYiELpoT1EUU7s35vGSyzzj9WIup2 TJWDgInJfkp57TuyLNUihhBHBHPwMIgmaTNriwd3AOuTQ1z4EGxwNOMPFGdLbhVh48Ka BJrwcvDhwirovV+ixNgNCmfB5PNhvtd1bys+/e0p8RHWsCTLbPKA0Ta58Dk8+1gn6yAA eewpF4eRSyjc7U3zWuhsAYDm51vJiywrhXA9/7A8y91njGomWe6r+bFiTHwONbv5n1Og NVzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mkZGo5268BnAcWbAJD1sMGrFvpQoROSz7elnHZn6ME4=; b=gnVkhgk4Ry6/XcQKiZsd95RMmUeizTHLBII/mhhGJi38U4vz1liWeGSTDuQvnbsttU cYdRjqbRJV2HRXKuDPV5BE5UY2pqcFWXw0VrlhQlpxzt48xKvLI7l4Hk3pR18TQBh6TT lVtb5BEYndzwm0NbjvmhwWGFRgyZS5fk1RU4fsBF0FPQ/2aUSn1mTBt6ztGca6/8aStu jyDMmoikP991ERhKgxbgvjk3ykRgHNGWFJ/KaW/22ydbYe3wLPwta0hWUG499AywB9VE 9cEBFZN3mdh548kIAAXXBqjrTzA8qCOSfvkfSR6DfKoOncHGS/YBEYnOlB55rbs4BhEM NvOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4ftQ/nEpxG8pbyesecdD5wCAqfWTauahNNpqxFhD1rWKWfVeDK djRt8AjzGaQ+MNOhUM/LEKw6o8P30JSI55hGx5U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMakDj9vvVK5uPExsFhdGf03WbaKAnA8FfISaUWmVq3FFzo8HZwTTaIU6FDB+tdHpzLVM4WXsA/QOCjquRkqbIo= X-Received: by 10.28.215.194 with SMTP id o185mr1514500wmg.105.1511276613676; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:03:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:03:32 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: L4rsx5iIJ81gO6_7PuvKkvKG0NY Message-ID: To: Thomas Mangin Cc: Idr , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11468592b73899055e7f8165" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:03:42 -0000 --001a11468592b73899055e7f8165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss cheese even among those implementations which do support it. Thx, R. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin wrote: > Hello Robert, > > As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. > > I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may > not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do = so > IMHO. > > Thomas > > On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you > need a global/per peer knob ? > > - - - > > As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well i= f > you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is > already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right = it > can fail today. > > But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that i= n > the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will > locally and immediately know that it failed. > > In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger the= n > 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made it throu= gh > as they intended. > > And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP > providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we are > where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc > > Best, > Robert. > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin > wrote: > >> Hello Everyone, >> >> I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. >> >> I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue >> transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could caus= e. >> >> I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the >> Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most >> likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >> >> That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover this >> issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So whi= le >> the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things worse from= a >> specification POV. >> >> I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another >> unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to t= his >> draft. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Thomas >> >> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares wrote: >> >> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >> (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementations= . >> Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publicatio= n. >> >> >> Susan Hares >> >> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> > > --001a11468592b73899055e7f8165 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My take wo= uld be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to disable it= if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss cheese even among= those implementations which do support it.=C2=A0
<= br>
Thx,
R.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 = at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> = wrote:
Hello Robert,

As this is = a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour.

I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: o= ne may not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able t= o do so IMHO.

=
Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017,= at 14:22, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi= Thomas,

Great that yo= u implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a global/per= peer knob ?=C2=A0

- -= -=C2=A0

As to your po= int that even today you may have the same problem ... well if you consider = the problem to be interworking between peers when one is already receiving = 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right it can fail today.= =C2=A0

But this is not= the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in the above case = the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will locally and immed= iately know that it failed.=C2=A0

In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injecte= d larger then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never m= ade it through as they intended.

And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG i= n BGP providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we= are where we are.=C2=A0https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, N= ov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
=
I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on = ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on the discus= sion regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larger than 4k = total attributes size could cause.=C2=A0

I would h= ave no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attr= ibute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most likely quick win is= going to be on packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, = I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover this issue and it = is already possible to encounter this problem today. So while the draft mak= e the issue more likely, it does not make things worse from a specification= POV.

I am therefore wondering if this should not = be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and i= s not specific to this draft.

Sincerely,


_= ______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
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--001a11468592b73899055e7f8165-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 07:10:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A6D1294A8; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:10:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aPIJ0Yws7jyz; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07DDC1294A1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id C90A71C0718; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:09:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id B3965405BF; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:09:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:09:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DAB1E946-F897-466C-9DB7-5D9DA882D410" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:09:55 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org To: Idr References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:10:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DAB1E946-F897-466C-9DB7-5D9DA882D410 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello Robert, > But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is = that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing = update will locally and immediately know that it failed.=20 I understand this is the same transitive issue we saw with ASN4 in the = past where the failure is occurring a few routers away.=20 That said should I send a peer an update of exactly 4096 bytes, how = would they propagate it to its peers / transit and prepend their own ASN = without breaking their session ? So I think that the issue is still not = limited to this draft. As the behaviour can happen without the draft - to be honest my own code = suffers from this bug and I will be fixing it today - it would cause = the same remote flapping as seen with ASN. This case is not covered by RFC 7606 for =E2=80=9Cthread-as-withdraw=E2=80= =9D ? Perhaps time for some code audit by everyone ... > And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc I agree that having way to share implementation limitation (like max rib = size, etc.) is something that should perhaps be discussed again ..=20 Different thread for a different day :-) Thomas --Apple-Mail=_DAB1E946-F897-466C-9DB7-5D9DA882D410 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= Robert,

But = this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in = the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will = locally and immediately know that it = failed. 

I = understand this is the same transitive issue we saw with ASN4 in the = past where the failure is occurring a few routers = away. 

That said should I send = a peer an update of exactly 4096 bytes, how would they propagate it to = its peers / transit and prepend their own ASN without breaking their = session ? So I think that the issue is still not limited to this = draft.

As the behaviour can happen = without the draft - to be honest my own code suffers from this bug and I = will be fixing it today -  it would cause the same remote flapping = as seen with ASN.

This case is = not covered by RFC 7606 for =E2=80=9Cthread-as-withdraw=E2=80=9D ? = Perhaps time for some code audit by everyone ...

And = since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

I agree that having way to share = implementation limitation (like max rib size, etc.) is something that = should perhaps be discussed again .. 
Different = thread for a different day :-)

Thomas

= --Apple-Mail=_DAB1E946-F897-466C-9DB7-5D9DA882D410-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 07:22:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40A21294C9; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:21:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pdaFIO7lCAQc; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5D2A1243F6; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id 723B61C0724; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:21:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5E9AC4058E; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:21:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-5.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:21:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: <7419B76F-AC12-4A8E-B2DF-95BBCDB7A5EB@exa.net.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_92DEA7A0-2851-4892-BB04-032C1DFDBBCD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:21:47 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org To: Idr References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:22:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_92DEA7A0-2851-4892-BB04-032C1DFDBBCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Your wish is my command: done ! = https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8b03b16f543c= 9173615188c5 = Thomas > On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 >=20 > My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a = knob to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse = swiss cheese even among those implementations which do support it.=20 >=20 > Thx, > R. >=20 > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: > Hello Robert, >=20 > As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. >=20 > I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one = may not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able = to do so IMHO. >=20 > Thomas >=20 >> On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Thomas, >>=20 >> Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do = you need a global/per peer knob ?=20 >>=20 >> - - -=20 >>=20 >> As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... = well if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when = one is already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you = are right it can fail today.=20 >>=20 >> But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is = that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing = update will locally and immediately know that it failed.=20 >>=20 >> In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger = then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made it = through as they intended. >>=20 >> And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc >>=20 >> Best, >> Robert. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >>=20 >> I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. >>=20 >> I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue = transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could = cause.=20 >>=20 >> I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the = Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most = likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >>=20 >> That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover = this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. = So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things = worse from a specification POV. >>=20 >> I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another = unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to = this draft. >>=20 >> Sincerely, >>=20 >> Thomas >>=20 >>> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares > wrote: >>>=20 >>> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages = (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 = implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is = ready for publication. =20 >>> =20 >>> Susan Hares=20 >>> =20 >>> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html = >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr --Apple-Mail=_92DEA7A0-2851-4892-BB04-032C1DFDBBCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Your = wish is my command: done !
https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8= b03b16f543c9173615188c5

Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:


My take = would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to = disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss = cheese even among those implementations which do support = it. 

Thx,
R.
<= /div>

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin = <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Robert,

As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per = neighbour.

I = thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may = not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do = so IMHO.

Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi = Thomas,

Great = that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a = global/per peer knob ? 

- - = - 

As to = your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well if you = consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is = already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right = it can fail today. 

But = this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in = the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will = locally and immediately know that it failed. 

In the = new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger then 4K = update messages will never know that their updates never made it through = as they intended.

And = since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I support the draft; = and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on the discussion = regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larger than 4k = total attributes size could cause. 

I would have no objection myself on = seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attribute set to prevent = backward compatibility as the most likely quick win is going to be on = packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to = cover this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem = today. So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make = things worse from a specification POV.

I am therefore wondering if this should = not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current = speakers and is not specific to this draft.

Sincerely,

Thomas

On 12 Nov 2017, at = 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

This = begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26).  Please note this draft has at = least 2 implementations.    Please comment on whether you = feel this draft is ready for publication.  &= nbsp;
 
Susan Hares&= nbsp;
 
PS = =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




_______________________________________________
Idr = mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

= --Apple-Mail=_92DEA7A0-2851-4892-BB04-032C1DFDBBCD-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 07:25:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950B51294F4; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nfPuXhyIFAMP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 615A11294FD; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id l188so2414459wma.1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=xr5+6mSyfBTWnjSEZ25zhpOebIN5taKMYs4trsF5l2w=; b=ckHvdPWPal+17d6OoYWIl4Q0uY/JwKc/ZiM8Xo1DdBOTfr8emorOPYAbZdVUpqsVLF 6fkn4fF8iQWtHn/X4uMh/uF1WDAU2khTnBMRQZHKVMoTCrUR3dBAaYVftJWgCREAFgtc rCzd/aKBWLy0+RfHY4STCNKJjeTKTY8C0z+I1Divz4wae/GAcAXM1mu1i67I48do2FB3 YTrjKljE/1k4x45rtReHu37nR6s3VkRc1wwyCVmZCIoHJwOjk4bUZ0bQr7hq973qO3to M1uyzyB3YGQWBGJfPDgtC+ziXxaHHI5iK6u+Xi6ktUFl4kEp973ByGPJg7YGvscxbpr4 2btw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xr5+6mSyfBTWnjSEZ25zhpOebIN5taKMYs4trsF5l2w=; b=jd1ZZ8mpy2cnCKjkNWLrh1EMEzUUnvqf3q9+2s+TpVz/XRMI0oX+3zCUvVhjvFeHMA Jmcm0p39Haobd/1WO5zR5nuaYCR2xBjqTv3hcx7Z9u+5RDnRtRhGke/VhIReV8jnPMd/ 1wkaFvkEmgVAIRegseWJpH/ErR5LMeYA2RPzjUlU/WohyymquoNMm9Y6MvPQdZxDVY/g obNH1HMgKMHB7tdOJlqRhvwiaQBJdnc7kopvC2TcL59cdCH23/7oyrx2Mb+iOav3BQ7T QU/thuut9d+lpfDqy4D/qamuGUZ2q9plMBh82PpqYuSiG6+5K/RxV+Dbjr5h7iHtuNUo hhVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7oC+6YEZhOGVVz9otQ7S7RkX3lk+3Bk8Q+SMkZWuQIXwoMZL7g jxf+HsPVU0ca0rir8E6GzxMQ6DsqRlj+8JkZv6kBUmiz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaD0AkXvNeXZnXfk6DG4fRoBLS83bAsu5NKLH2yCe1Ek4kpTiqOMXRp+Z66RKMNoejvbZkDIOfJ0uvDpU2+n7o= X-Received: by 10.28.70.131 with SMTP id t125mr1554731wma.92.1511277926717; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7419B76F-AC12-4A8E-B2DF-95BBCDB7A5EB@exa.net.uk> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <7419B76F-AC12-4A8E-B2DF-95BBCDB7A5EB@exa.net.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:25:25 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YmkaDM0pY8oMMVCh_KqoYw7oJ6M Message-ID: To: Thomas Mangin Cc: Idr , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0d4376faa9d1055e7fcf10" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:25:46 -0000 --94eb2c0d4376faa9d1055e7fcf10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cool :) Care to add ExaBGP to the wiki ? https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat= ions Thx, R. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Mangin wrote: > Your wish is my command: done ! > https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/ > 80612f0cef940d8f8b03b16f543c9173615188c5 > > > Thomas > > On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob t= o > disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss chees= e > even among those implementations which do support it. > > Thx, > R. > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin > wrote: > >> Hello Robert, >> >> As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. >> >> I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may >> not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do= so >> IMHO. >> >> Thomas >> >> On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >> Hi Thomas, >> >> Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you >> need a global/per peer knob ? >> >> - - - >> >> As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well >> if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is >> already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right= it >> can fail today. >> >> But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that >> in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update w= ill >> locally and immediately know that it failed. >> >> In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger >> then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made it >> through as they intended. >> >> And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP >> providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we ar= e >> where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc >> >> Best, >> Robert. >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin > > wrote: >> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. >>> >>> I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue >>> transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could cau= se. >>> >>> I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the >>> Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most >>> likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >>> >>> That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover thi= s >>> issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So wh= ile >>> the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things worse fro= m a >>> specification POV. >>> >>> I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another >>> unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to = this >>> draft. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Thomas >>> >>> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares wrote: >>> >>> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >>> (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementation= s. >>> Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publicati= on. >>> >>> >>> Susan Hares >>> >>> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --94eb2c0d4376faa9d1055e7fcf10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cool :)=C2=A0
<= br>
Care to add ExaBGP to the wiki ?=C2=A0

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wik= i/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations

=
Thx,
R.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Mangin <= thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Your= wish is my command: done !
h= ttps://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8b03= b16f543c9173615188c5


Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> w= rote:


My take= would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to disable= it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss cheese even am= ong those implementations which do support it.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Tue, Nov 21, 20= 17 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Robert,

As this = is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour.
I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option= : one may not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be abl= e to do so IMHO.

= Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, R= obert Raszuk <rob= ert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Gr= eat that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a= global/per peer knob ?=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

A= s to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well if y= ou consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is alread= y receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right it can f= ail today.=C2=A0

But t= his is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in the a= bove case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will locally= and immediately know that it failed.=C2=A0

In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily= injected larger then 4K update messages will never know that their updates= never made it through as they intended.

=
And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATION= AL MSG in BGP providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps b= eyond we are where we are.=C2=A0https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


= On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.= net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,=

I support the draft; and I therefore impleme= nted it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on= the discussion regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larg= er than 4k total attributes size could cause.=C2=A0

I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the Tota= l Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most likely q= uick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM.

= That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover this is= sue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. So while th= e draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things worse from a sp= ecification POV.

I am therefore wondering if this = should not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current spe= akers and is not specific to this draft.

Sincerely= ,

Thomas
=
On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan H= ares <shares@ndzh.c= om> wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-message= s (11/12 to 11/26).=C2=A0 Please note this draft has at least 2 implementat= ions. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Please comment on whether you feel this draft is re= ady for publication.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= /u>
=C2=A0
Susan Hares=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:=
=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
 <=
/u>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=
_= ______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_____________________= __________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



_______________________________________________
Idr mailing listIdr@ietf.org
https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

_________________________________________= ______
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


--94eb2c0d4376faa9d1055e7fcf10-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 08:05:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EBC12955A; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:05:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g2Dih4cxX6kG; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C26EF12EB0B; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id C58931C0731; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:03:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id AF93A2211C6; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:03:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:03:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: <31A811C0-BC96-45C7-9C68-6EEA4EC163E5@exa.net.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B9BE7825-9402-46C2-B04B-B54D7CF65C15" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:03:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org To: Idr References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <7419B76F-AC12-4A8E-B2DF-95BBCDB7A5EB@exa.net.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:05:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B9BE7825-9402-46C2-B04B-B54D7CF65C15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Robert, I do not have a login 1 Yes 2 Yes 3 Yes 4a Yes 4b Yes 5a You can send extended UPDATE . So No ? 5b Yes Thomas > On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:25, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > Cool :)=20 >=20 > Care to add ExaBGP to the wiki ?=20 >=20 > = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementa= tions = >=20 > Thx, > R. >=20 > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: > Your wish is my command: done ! > = https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8b03b16f543c= 9173615188c5 = >=20 >=20 > Thomas >=20 >> On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a = knob to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse = swiss cheese even among those implementations which do support it.=20 >>=20 >> Thx, >> R. >>=20 >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: >> Hello Robert, >>=20 >> As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. >>=20 >> I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one = may not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able = to do so IMHO. >>=20 >> Thomas >>=20 >>> On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Thomas, >>>=20 >>> Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do = you need a global/per peer knob ?=20 >>>=20 >>> - - -=20 >>>=20 >>> As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... = well if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when = one is already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you = are right it can fail today.=20 >>>=20 >>> But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is = that in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing = update will locally and immediately know that it failed.=20 >>>=20 >>> In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected = larger then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never = made it through as they intended. >>>=20 >>> And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in = BGP providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond = we are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc >>>=20 >>> Best, >>> Robert. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = > wrote: >>> Hello Everyone, >>>=20 >>> I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP = master. >>>=20 >>> I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential = issue transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size = could cause.=20 >>>=20 >>> I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the = Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most = likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >>>=20 >>> That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover = this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today. = So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things = worse from a specification POV. >>>=20 >>> I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another = unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to = this draft. >>>=20 >>> Sincerely, >>>=20 >>> Thomas >>>=20 >>>> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages = (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 = implementations. Please comment on whether you feel this draft is = ready for publication. =20 >>>> =20 >>>> Susan Hares=20 >>>> =20 >>>> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html = >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Idr mailing list >>>> Idr@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr --Apple-Mail=_B9BE7825-9402-46C2-B04B-B54D7CF65C15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Robert,

I = do not have a login

1 Yes
2 = Yes
3 Yes
4a = Yes
4b Yes
5a You can = send extended UPDATE . So No ?
5b = Yes

Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:25, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

Cool = :) 

Care to = add ExaBGP to the wiki ? 

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended= -implementations

Thx,
R.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, = Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Your wish is my command: done !
https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8b03b16f543c9173615188c5


Thomas

On 21 = Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:


My take = would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to = disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss = cheese even among those implementations which do support = it. 

Thx,
R.
<= /div>

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin = <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Robert,

As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per = neighbour.

I = thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may = not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do = so IMHO.

Thomas

On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi = Thomas,

Great = that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you need a = global/per peer knob ? 

- - = - 

As to = your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well if you = consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one is = already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are right = it can fail today. 

But = this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that in = the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update will = locally and immediately know that it failed. 

In the = new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger then 4K = update messages will never know that their updates never made it through = as they intended.

And = since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP = providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we = are where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin = <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I support the draft; = and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master.

I am will keep an eye on the discussion = regarding the potential issue transiting messages with larger than 4k = total attributes size could cause. 

I would have no objection myself on = seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attribute set to prevent = backward compatibility as the most likely quick win is going to be on = packing more NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to = cover this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem = today. So while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make = things worse from a specification POV.

I am therefore wondering if this should = not be covered by another unrelated RFC as it can affect current = speakers and is not specific to this draft.

Sincerely,

Thomas

On = 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

This = begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26).  Please note this draft has at = least 2 implementations.    Please comment on whether you = feel this draft is ready for publication.   
 
Susan Hares 
 
PS = =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


_______________________________________________
Idr = mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

= --Apple-Mail=_B9BE7825-9402-46C2-B04B-B54D7CF65C15-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 08:16:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0036129515; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i8sVaf15vaPj; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x244.google.com (mail-wr0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C376A1294CC; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x244.google.com with SMTP id z14so11803394wrb.8; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=tbi8rcPMeAQRQCJsgkIi81ClfZeRsh25J9OXHjtQZsk=; b=hoRdKxDIeu38Mj3bZRjmINkJLoKcHRYBze57wzHkyXW2H5dQUlUlu6oCjNPwNwQrF7 OrotRqa+YO8GD50MTQuxSW2nm79EsB3ghBCmFyvoJDZXSiEEDX1HOznWXTenAuuGX80Y jl9CIlR22ebGmueMlBOy+vXSPab9VcH/evgTe6CbHy/uJWPReEomZlrAjBXZuHyPft6s HcxmLSpU+GG+c5og1fCQbBi8sP9kYne2Eik+tsgvoqKhYJ8s3LE3tAmX0uYGYmiivOJ1 1rX0wRS1asu+fIm1PLJPAwHHLcCaRRhJ56+jbWCUEOJ0Tguh+0o24B5E7cXWzKtsBra4 SxBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tbi8rcPMeAQRQCJsgkIi81ClfZeRsh25J9OXHjtQZsk=; b=sJ7AuxyXsrhfCdyx2EtYp0CkOwAMpgQcnkEFHQblMUtPzBDqlto+FbMDGulNlYEDKQ 4hlvGYhW4UFBPpMQg3pZ63ENbW7TMJdMBDhlz9WdWn2jZCSQZ1mkDXgEMhpPBkDUMV22 LfU89+H7Z7/o+efrwdc9Ou/EYHJBm29bO8Tg/CosavSr7E9Ax/MnZI51QOn33xbp5D4g UQQjA7/azVq4BdhnOb2jd9vyJhVOcNRTPfFPwGscwZYsFYBYjaNDw21+2qLmRoZeCGD7 bdb648dGaSk4ZLPc0xPb/T8sR7e0pwTmj1rv1FW8TTxil4O1DagNrQesE8hrAKm8iU+p q2gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7BI9rLfi9Fd91FuxyEMguhWMYsPqpqK8bWqAb2D5vQMporbvcC 1lTa+0rmKCdgvqUzHKlpPQMj8yW9uBxGWj8zjit9LA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZv4y4nZcKfmSYPzMDEymTy7k3AiHSXbhGlyq24KxVEIjTV8YpZbCbdRzHhgZGVZSZj1KhjH8pS0wm8jdZO+rM= X-Received: by 10.223.160.111 with SMTP id l44mr8737396wrl.56.1511280998994; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:16:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <31A811C0-BC96-45C7-9C68-6EEA4EC163E5@exa.net.uk> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <7419B76F-AC12-4A8E-B2DF-95BBCDB7A5EB@exa.net.uk> <31A811C0-BC96-45C7-9C68-6EEA4EC163E5@exa.net.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:16:38 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: J_2UGzqEAvIYzHr7AFeqSTE8voY Message-ID: To: Thomas Mangin Cc: Idr , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c06671a19d70a055e808775" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:16:43 -0000 --94eb2c06671a19d70a055e808775 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Done ! I filled the report for you :). 5a is answering the question in 5 so I said Yes - Clearly if there is no support no capability will be sent :) Confusing a bit ... Cheers, R. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Thomas Mangin wrote: > Robert, > > I do not have a login > > 1 Yes > 2 Yes > 3 Yes > 4a Yes > 4b Yes > 5a You can send extended UPDATE . So No ? > 5b Yes > > Thomas > > On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:25, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Cool :) > > Care to add ExaBGP to the wiki ? > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp- > extended-implementations > > Thx, > R. > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Mangin > wrote: > >> Your wish is my command: done ! >> https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/80612f0cef940d >> 8f8b03b16f543c9173615188c5 >> >> >> Thomas >> >> On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >> >> My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob >> to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss >> cheese even among those implementations which do support it. >> >> Thx, >> R. >> >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Mangin >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Robert, >>> >>> As this is a capability, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour. >>> >>> I thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one ma= y >>> not want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to d= o so >>> IMHO. >>> >>> Thomas >>> >>> On 21 Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>> >>> Hi Thomas, >>> >>> Great that you implemented it in ExaBGP. Is it on by default or do you >>> need a global/per peer knob ? >>> >>> - - - >>> >>> As to your point that even today you may have the same problem ... well >>> if you consider the problem to be interworking between peers when one i= s >>> already receiving 4K update and want to add more stuff ... you are righ= t it >>> can fail today. >>> >>> But this is not the main problem I am pointing out. The problem is that >>> in the above case the local guy who is adding stuff to existing update = will >>> locally and immediately know that it failed. >>> >>> In the new model it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger >>> then 4K update messages will never know that their updates never made i= t >>> through as they intended. >>> >>> And since IDR and community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP >>> providing a bit of a ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we a= re >>> where we are. https://goo.gl/JTpQDc >>> >>> Best, >>> Robert. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Mangin < >>> thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> I support the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master. >>>> >>>> I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potential issue >>>> transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size could ca= use. >>>> >>>> I would have no objection myself on seeing an arbitrary limit on the >>>> Total Path Attribute set to prevent backward compatibility as the most >>>> likely quick win is going to be on packing more NLRI ATM. >>>> >>>> That said, I am not aware of any guideline in previous RFC to cover >>>> this issue and it is already possible to encounter this problem today.= So >>>> while the draft make the issue more likely, it does not make things wo= rse >>>> from a specification POV. >>>> >>>> I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another >>>> unrelated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to= this >>>> draft. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Thomas >>>> >>>> On 12 Nov 2017, at 22:47, Susan Hares wrote: >>>> >>>> This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >>>> (11/12 to 11/26). Please note this draft has at least 2 implementatio= ns. >>>> Please comment on whether you feel this draft is ready for publicat= ion. >>>> >>>> >>>> Susan Hares >>>> >>>> PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18801.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Idr mailing list >>>> Idr@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Idr mailing list >>>> Idr@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --94eb2c06671a19d70a055e808775 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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--94eb2c06671a19d70a055e808775-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 08:21:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EDA1243FE; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sOa32gTAX-7F; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (out-7.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A363124D6C; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by out-7.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPS id 535861C0736; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3F5622211B6; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net (191.254.66.195.meeting.linx.net [195.66.254.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Thomas Mangin Message-Id: <13FE50CE-C1D7-4E83-908D-F07157036E21@exa.net.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_21A84286-6EA8-44A5-979C-5964BB94D90A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:16 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org To: Idr References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at outbound1.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_21A84286-6EA8-44A5-979C-5964BB94D90A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:09, Thomas Mangin = wrote: >=20 > This case is not covered by RFC 7606 for =E2=80=9Cthread-as-withdraw=E2=80= =9D ? Perhaps time for some code audit by everyone =E2=80=A6 Oh crap ! = https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp/commit/68e719ce821f075c3d80de085e92= 0e37a0c25bdf = Thomas --Apple-Mail=_21A84286-6EA8-44A5-979C-5964BB94D90A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = 21 Nov 2017, at 15:09, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:

This case is not covered by RFC 7606 for = =E2=80=9Cthread-as-withdraw=E2=80=9D ? Perhaps time for some code audit = by everyone =E2=80=A6

Oh= crap !

Thomas

= --Apple-Mail=_21A84286-6EA8-44A5-979C-5964BB94D90A-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 08:21:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D18B124D6C for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WCNlmjjGbfax for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:3::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9828129AD4 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail3.mlpsca01.us.to.gin.ntt.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eHBIj-0002Ml-Sq (job@us.ntt.net) for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:36 +0000 Received: by mail-ot0-f170.google.com with SMTP id s4so11000298ote.4 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:33 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX69Q2xjcSLzQDnNiapxOBpth2RPZAgIRcllOo+qZNkaad4tvgC7 AtcqQhd9Qn4sPVNGOzRskIB1u7YnxVExbyohtOe0nw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbH6xWoxXjmtmz6k5BjLQgkY5BCYp+YiNsM1Ah0tt2A2qQh/8+99Chpl8cgeKEr8kk/sfMC/VcJXB/y13hYGiA= X-Received: by 10.157.68.209 with SMTP id p17mr11569228otg.66.1511281292983; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:21:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> In-Reply-To: From: Job Snijders Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:22 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Idr , Thomas Mangin , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043c42049fd79c055e809877" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:21:40 -0000 --f403043c42049fd79c055e809877 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 at 15:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob t= o > disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss chees= e > even among those implementations which do support it. > + 1 to this. I=E2=80=99m working on another open source implementation that will have th= is enabled by default as well. Seems sensible if all vendors would take that approach. Kind regards, Job --f403043c42049fd79c055e809877 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 a= t 15:03, Robert Raszuk <robert@rasz= uk.net> wrote:

My take would be to make it enabled= by default (potentially with a knob to disable it if needed) .. otherwise = we are creating even worse swiss cheese even among those implementations wh= ich do support it.=C2=A0

+ 1 to this.=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m working on another open source implementation th= at will have this enabled by default as well.=C2=A0
=
Seems sensible if all vendors would take that a= pproach.=C2=A0

Kind rega= rds,

Job
--f403043c42049fd79c055e809877-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 08:23:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ECD129AC7; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id feNRADqnT2HM; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com (mail-wr0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2F73129510; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 11so8483019wrb.6; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=00UtpFTreVzTQOfs4WGcls2OCji3sZeqsptrPKcm1E4=; b=QdOAmi3cqJcfUmtN+1sqqRM4DaDWcdYf3VvTl9PEdaogYAo5oTCf7JzXGCtUBF9fgJ onTkCsI1t3p4I3Qv6pOqvc8XVzUPhijZ0NT5C+jrU/6+uHzEgYGiTChaCk3iIXdnSK5V S5EEH1LSYCgSvcF3uN0dQdntREDHYo70iEpvmwtmWHyKOep+nofHL8X7XpsG/iCmq/Yx NuySomPoc9C6M6LSVf8cMcjVRw6fhMj37gmuD6f8/wYyAqzxfLTja1qCO9NYcEdc155o UP3bs1hHHQBktC+dVApPlcV/7fv9qktNOhnjFexwlqE3QhaEV+GoXrAilZWFGj5M4+06 fP0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=00UtpFTreVzTQOfs4WGcls2OCji3sZeqsptrPKcm1E4=; b=IYlqUJyJlz+3ImFinzfHTZ8nKA2v1YHDNix3OWf+IBqL6UA1ugFlTviV4vxl4G8tGV mmC6NVRNmg27+d82ihR/nQDu4+H128NJ//vHQvWBfNY1FR6gmbKM2lv69lk1zrs1JxjU UNOERbwDDK8lV5VAdVKuboXnhSQsCXpast6eWN2FBijK9gNMjDupVQZjSekI0pIFOVb/ Yp7YO6Y+w7vzf2HLcWb0p4KYvQeNyC09RAyUfwOHOqwWvHplU9B9D1NOeInjIWKK12YI anfkWBW+CcrpTWaq2Y8ZNQEaaT/Q02DYrKvN3wVMZ7mZhFmu91ImgsaMPrGGSY+0Cgyf 9wDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4IhQJlkme7sVrmq42TeVfPAJAI8fP/Lo83zdksmhq0noIjjomW rMJlg5eU+v7PrLu0icrqminnjunnKTNqZsweW/LylA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMamg9piOQr1xXAYq8E/+imncIfN5GzH5LWDftYjtR8dy/tbNWFe/yz1M4r4k1cYxru+5ifX3DMqymkt48WbssA= X-Received: by 10.223.131.129 with SMTP id 1mr14594299wre.205.1511281394169; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:23:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:23:13 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: s-4KuKqz9nng5otNVtCn7R6d2-Y Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: Idr , Thomas Mangin , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0d2326a7be02055e809ec1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:23:18 -0000 --94eb2c0d2326a7be02055e809ec1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know why this is not spelled out in the draft .... On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 at 15:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> >> My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially with a knob >> to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss >> cheese even among those implementations which do support it. >> > > + 1 to this. > > I=E2=80=99m working on another open source implementation that will have = this > enabled by default as well. > > Seems sensible if all vendors would take that approach. > > Kind regards, > > Job > --94eb2c0d2326a7be02055e809ec1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don'= t know why this is not spelled out in the draft ....=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 a= t 5:21 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 at 15:03, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
<= /div>

My take would be to make it enabled by default (potentially w= ith a knob to disable it if needed) .. otherwise we are creating even worse= swiss cheese even among those implementations which do support it.=C2=A0

+ 1 to this.=C2=A0

I=E2= =80=99m working on another open source implementation that will have this e= nabled by default as well.=C2=A0

Seems sensible if all vendors would take that approach.=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Job

--94eb2c0d2326a7be02055e809ec1-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 09:35:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E38129AB3 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:35:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUd_oJVrvqw2 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail3.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail3.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:5::26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0956128C82 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail3.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eHCSU-000AwW-6n (job@us.ntt.net) for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:35:42 +0000 Received: by mail-ot0-f181.google.com with SMTP id b54so11200886otd.8 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:35:41 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX74uyeg2ET9bnOcSpr+3to9zM2dRHo960D4tnMZkMN/oYYIKlgK gDXeBWWCm36/5jeH8bGTb5M0u6CLT4OBScvJUAwSDQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaHl6UYVZbdGLIsPzgoiOdL45sE5NrEQc3kpPXVSWUtQIz4MPsQgGpCEUMdCvoi1bLCREfKPoFB89ELjM/E6JU= X-Received: by 10.157.68.209 with SMTP id p17mr11759383otg.66.1511285741423; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:35:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> In-Reply-To: From: Job Snijders Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:35:30 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Idr , Job Snijders , Thomas Mangin , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043c4204c5c2a7055e81a110" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:35:44 -0000 --f403043c4204c5c2a7055e81a110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Robert/Randy, About this being a default: Old (Section 4): A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. New (Section 4) A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. --f403043c4204c5c2a7055e81a110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Robert/Randy,

About this being a default:

Old (Section 4):

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messa= ges with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the= peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].

New (Section 4)

A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP = Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Cap= ability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].
--f403043c4204c5c2a7055e81a110-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 10:40:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01D4127B57; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9pniOeXyJJ1M; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCCB4129B95; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x63so5419261wmf.4; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=2oNdTbNaHEang3OWBzuXkztsH6Y3t17FKOndTdrDuSo=; b=APwU/siFrk2ZLhUQMWEHqibU+tP8omh+rgdS9+sw0oOo6tUQhV9U1Xc4WI3cBIZiNL IO88sMK2FK5oaT0Q7xSkrgwiPcOu6qbzVW1nut8Hxo5UxakL1ZriqD5NaivZSLOHyxLv XEPwDYgYh8HKslSg9ggDgMDXzxUyWcaeXahNwfvQqa5YZvwb6byzTUGht6gBDBfz4lWr 5IPzDjELF/mB5Yumvur0zbmGDveRFs0kcI7IUNPGQMyxjFjBBDZo7xauR+NaWl7niP3/ +hkivHMC4wB8XSZIZDMWAGgBwd/T0ZeuBCmGiGnXz/+qDm0R9sZMd1sWzzpteKFpETWC EHbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2oNdTbNaHEang3OWBzuXkztsH6Y3t17FKOndTdrDuSo=; b=AwNAukieHIo+RlkLRQZ4eHvYPw74ZOvP1USjxxXxuW0R+7hN/WKFXynbxHdhAzsCqi ZXFQ8TUOopKGiRYZZOikYgTJW9zifM9bPU4+6ZJoFaJ8yFrQa8mhPPLVONsCd/BV3ZBz zWW34sP727jCzLevBSmfr9gs0J+OxgNXdsbcZjhsNn23qS/ZV3CQjD/Rwum8et3+7b3f zL4nPrzZVbANmvXjcHBkYpd2CB76XVWgNWoW33LbrWFoWo7aLUBaJwqmd75y1nFTIeZI UGEtnyLRWiq2g26XFzFjBS6NtztcbiHusqUKkMLjM1uP6LiUFkHZlYL0oevQeZ+UxpGX A1eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6+jz77K2H42Eda/kjHzW2nE8TSIT+Tkt2nqtjCURa/5uiKvaKs AeD4QdDrJZboAMg+YWwgU0X4Y+FUZVw3YoRogHhV0Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYKMpJlvh9/66dYCQqWKFdpyLZg1P6kLOgyWhN487H0//EEdtcqH0bHLP8LFRGXZER7dFsWvd9EM8kv2rWr1Ds= X-Received: by 10.28.70.131 with SMTP id t125mr2001967wma.92.1511289644136; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:40:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 19:40:43 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: M7ZGtHkpecch6iV5lK9pkq1EnLo Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: Idr , Thomas Mangin , idr wg , idr-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0d43766444ce055e828a63" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 18:40:48 -0000 --94eb2c0d43766444ce055e828a63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Great ! On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > Robert/Randy, > > About this being a default: > > Old (Section 4): > > A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. > > New (Section 4) > > A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. > --94eb2c0d43766444ce055e828a63 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great !

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job = Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
Robert/Randy,

About this being a default:

Old (Section 4):

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages = with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the pee= r using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].
New (Section 4)

<= div dir=3D"auto">A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Exte= nded Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capabil= ity to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].

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CC: idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQG3eYqAAAg/8gAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCKgAAChkQAAAJHFYAABIDZoA== Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:38:54 +0000 Message-ID: <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.131.82] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862XCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , 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FPTYVvLZXB_34NUFQlonbtELmFs Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: Job Snijders , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0d2326a077d9055e8617e0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:55:02 -0000 --94eb2c0d2326a077d9055e8617e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jakob, I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit. Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CLI or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is rather not that interesting isn't it ? Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does not crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :) ? Thx, //R. On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > The new update message size requires support for: > > 16375 communities > > 8187 extended communities > > 5458 large communities > > I have not changed the as-path length, because it is already ridiculously > high. > > If anyone wants to talk about a maximum as-path length, please speak up. > > > > I have added tests to the implementation report > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp- > extended-implementations > > to ensure full compliance with the consequences of the draft. > > > > Implementers, please update your compliance. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM > *To:* Job Snijders > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Idr ; > Thomas Mangin > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Great ! > > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > Robert/Randy, > > > > About this being a default: > > > > Old (Section 4): > > > > A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. > > > > New (Section 4) > > > > A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --94eb2c0d2326a077d9055e8617e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jakob,

<= /div>
I think what you added is fine, but requires a time= limit.=C2=A0

Statemen= t that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CLI or match = in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is rather not t= hat interesting isn't it ?=C2=A0

Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it j= ust does not crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated= action :) ?

Thx,
//R.





On Tue, Nov 21,= 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com> wr= ote:

The new update message size requires support= for:

16375 communities

8187 extended communities

5458 large communities<= /p>

I have not changed the as-path length, becau= se it is already ridiculously high.

If anyone wants to talk about a maximum as-p= ath length, please speak up.

=C2=A0

I have added tests to the implementation rep= ort

https://t= rac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementa= tions

to ensure full compliance with the consequen= ces of the draft.

=C2=A0

Implementers, please update your compliance.=

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM
To: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; id= r-ads@ietf.org; Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk= >
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Great !

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:

Robert/Randy,

=C2=A0

About this being a default:

=C2=A0

Old (Section 4):

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].=

=C2=A0

New (Section 4)

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Job Snijders , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQG3eYqAAAg/8gAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCKgAAChkQAAAJHFYAABIDZoAAEYC2AAAx+mpA= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:58:03 +0000 Message-ID: <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.131.82] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145XCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:58:08 -0000 --_000_88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145XCHALN014ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SnVzdCB0aGF0IGl0IGRvZXMgaXQgd2l0aG91dCBlcnJvci4NCklmIHRoZSBudW1iZXJzIGFyZSB0 b28gbGFyZ2UsIHdlIHNob3VsZCBkaXNjdXNzIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgbGltaXRzLg0KDQpUaGFua3Ms DQpKYWtvYg0KDQpGcm9tOiBycmFzenVrQGdtYWlsLmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOnJyYXN6dWtAZ21haWwu Y29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUm9iZXJ0IFJhc3p1aw0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIg MjEsIDIwMTcgMjo1NSBQTQ0KVG86IEpha29iIEhlaXR6IChqaGVpdHopIDxqaGVpdHpAY2lzY28u Y29tPg0KQ2M6IEpvYiBTbmlqZGVycyA8am9iQG50dC5uZXQ+OyBpZHIgd2cgPGlkckBpZXRmLm9y Zz47IGlkci1hZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IElkciA8aWRyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+OyBUaG9tYXMg TWFuZ2luIDx0aG9tYXMubWFuZ2luQGV4YS5uZXQudWs+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0lkcl0gV0cg 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--_000_deae6e85c3ff47a6bbcac176eb91bd3eXCHALN014ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 15:30:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D87312704A for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:30:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kncB9UxilgMl for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A39D1200F1 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eHHzL-0002wk-3K; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:29:59 +0000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:29:56 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Job Snijders Cc: Interminable Discussion Room In-Reply-To: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:30:02 -0000 > A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended > Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message > Capability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. A BGP speaker that is capable of sending and receiving BGP Extended Messages SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. A BGP speaker MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the Extended Message Capability from that peer. 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([10.173.160.147]) with mapi id 15.20.0239.009; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:10:28 +0000 From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Robert Raszuk CC: idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin , Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQGq5uSAAAg/8QAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCLgAAChkMAAAJHFYAACFGHAAAAj3+AAAAbuIAAAITrgAAhcQSA Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:10:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=oliver.borchert@nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [108.28.126.64] 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12:10:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:10:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:10:01 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: P2SO2iootRRqyxoMXeRAapKquIg Message-ID: To: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin , Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043868bc97ba5e055e97e7ee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:10:07 -0000 --f403043868bc97ba5e055e97e7ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Olivier, The larger updates will contain larger attributes and I think Jakob's point of those questions was to make sure that what actually creates the extended size BGP UPDATE MSGs can be handled by the implementations who claim support for it. However I must agree with you that implementation report draft or wiki is really not the right place for those questions. It merely is there to indicate if the draft has been implemented and what parts of the draft got implemented. Those questions are perfect for customer evaluation of given bgp implementation though, but I am afraid we do not have within IETF a room for such efforts :) Best, R. On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: > To my understanding the wiki should state compliance with the draft in > question and not particular BGP attributes. > > > > The draft is about the capability of sending and receiving updates larger > than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not propagated, as well as > the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would exceed= the newly > proposed max length of 64K, it is not about performance issues etc. > > > > To me the added questions in the wiki are more about the capability to > process individual attributes that might become large. This is outside th= e > scope of the draft in question. > > > > It seems to me that what you try to solve is not compliance with the > draft, it is more about the capability of particular implementations on h= ow > to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, quali= ty > of implementation, etc. but has nothing to do with the draft in question. > > > > In case there are issues with attributes getting too large and therefore > causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC=E2=80=99s dealing wi= th these > attributes should be updated. > > > > Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft and I do not see any > need to have these questions in the wiki. > > > > Oliver > > > > *From: *"Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" > *Date: *Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM > *To: *Oliver Borchert > *Cc: *Robert Raszuk , idr wg , " > idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas > Mangin , Randy Bush > > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Larger message implies larger path attributes. You may answer =E2=80=9Cno= =E2=80=9D for the > parts with which you do not comply. > > > > If the implied path attribute sizes are too large, then we need to be > explicit about the maximum sizes for each attribute in the draft. Please > suggest reasonable maximum sizes. > > Thanks, > > Jakob. > > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < > oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: > > Jakob, > > > > I looked into the added questions for the compliance report you added on > the wiki. > > I am not quite sure that these added questions do apply for a compliance > of the requested draft. These do more apply to features used within BGP > that might result in larger BGP messages. > > And here the draft has a clear message in the last paragraph of section 3= : > > > > =E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers = are > > > conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=E2=80= =9D > > > > Therefore, they would more apply to proper functioning of implemented BGP > features rather than the extended message itself. I do not believe that > these new questions do apply here. > > > > Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that mainly focusses on BGPSE= C > updates. We did not add communities to the generated traffic and I do not > intent to do so in the near future (though community contributions are > welcome) =E2=80=93 in this sense, for sending my answer is NA. > > On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in itself is well formed > and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) there is no issue. We just > dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen. > > > > With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process communities of that length, > QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO do comply with the dra= ft > itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specifie= d > in the draft and we tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec > traffic of little less than 64 K. > > > > Oliver > > > > *From: *Idr on behalf of "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" < > jheitz@cisco.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM > *To: *Robert Raszuk > *Cc: *idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr < > idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > 1 hour ?? > > When I tested my large community code, I tested at the limit and over it. > > There was no perceptible time for the operations. > > 16 times imperceptible would be a blip at the most. > > The only operations that take a worrisome amount of time are regexp > matches with nested wildcards. > > Hmm, I should add regexp matches explicitly, because that requires to > expand the communities into ascii representation in the matching engine. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM > *To:* Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Thomas Mangin < > thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Just that it does it without error. > > If the numbers are too large, we should discuss reasonable limits. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com ] = *On > Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM > *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Cc:* Job Snijders ; idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org= ; > Idr ; Thomas Mangin > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Hi Jakob, > > > > I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit. > > > > Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CLI > or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is > rather not that interesting isn't it ? > > > > Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does not > crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :) = ? > > > > Thx, > > //R. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > wrote: > > The new update message size requires support for: > > 16375 communities > > 8187 extended communities > > 5458 large communities > > I have not changed the as-path length, because it is already ridiculously > high. > > If anyone wants to talk about a maximum as-path length, please speak up. > > > > I have added tests to the implementation report > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp- > extended-implementations > > > to ensure full compliance with the consequences of the draft. > > > > Implementers, please update your compliance. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM > *To:* Job Snijders > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Idr = ; > Thomas Mangin > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Great ! > > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > Robert/Randy, > > > > About this being a default: > > > > Old (Section 4): > > > > A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. > > > > New (Section 4) > > > > A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > --f403043868bc97ba5e055e97e7ee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Olivier,
The larger updates will contain larger attributes= and I think Jakob's point of those questions was to make sure that wha= t actually creates the extended size BGP UPDATE MSGs can be handled by the = implementations who claim support for it.

However I must agree with you that implementation repor= t draft or wiki is really not the right place for those questions. It merel= y is there to indicate if the draft has been implemented and what parts of = the draft got implemented.=C2=A0

Those questions are perfect for customer evaluation of given bgp= implementation though, but I am afraid we do not have within IETF a room f= or such efforts :)=C2=A0

Best,
R.



=C2=A0

=
On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Borchert, Olive= r (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote:

To my understanding the wiki should state complianc= e with the draft in question and not particular BGP attributes.

=C2=A0

The draft is about the capability of sending and re= ceiving updates larger than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not p= ropagated, as well as the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would exceed the newly proposed max length of 64K, it i= s not about performance issues etc.

=C2=A0

To me the added questions in the wiki are more abou= t the capability to process individual attributes that might become large. = This is outside the scope of the draft in question.

=C2=A0

It seems to me that what you try to solve is not co= mpliance with the draft, it is more about the capability of particular impl= ementations on how to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, quality of implementation, etc. bu= t has nothing to do with the draft in question.

=C2=A0

In case there are issues with attributes getting to= o large and therefore causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC= =E2=80=99s dealing with these attributes should be updated.

=C2=A0

Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft= and I do not see any need to have these questions in the wiki.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM
To: Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.or= g>, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>


Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Larger message implies larger path attributes. You m= ay answer =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D for the parts with which you do not comply.

=C2=A0

If the implied path a= ttribute sizes are too large, then we need to be explicit about the maximum= sizes for each attribute in the draft. Please suggest reasonable maximum s= izes.=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob.


On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>= wrote:

Jakob,

=C2=A0

I looked into the added questions for the complianc= e report you added on the wiki.

I am not quite sure that these added questions do a= pply for a compliance of the requested draft. These do more apply to featur= es used within BGP that might result in larger BGP messages.

And here the draft has a clear message in the last = paragraph of section 3:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol develo= pers and implementers are =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0 conservative in their application and use of= Extended Messages.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Therefore, they would more apply to proper function= ing of implemented BGP features rather than the extended message itself. I = do not believe that these new questions do apply here.

=C2=A0

Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that ma= inly focusses on BGPSEC updates. We did not add communities to the generate= d traffic and I do not intent to do so in the near future (though community contributions are welcome) =E2=80=93 in this= sense, for sending my answer is NA.

On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in= itself is well formed and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) th= ere is no issue. We just dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen.

=C2=A0

With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process commu= nities of that length, QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO d= o comply with the draft itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specified in the draft and we = tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec traffic of little less = than 64 K.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Jakob Heitz = (jheitz)" <jh= eitz@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin <t= homas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

1 hour ??

When I tested my large community code,= I tested at the limit and over it.

There was no perceptible time for the = operations.

16 times imperceptible would be a blip= at the most.

The only operations that take a worris= ome amount of time are regexp matches with nested wildcards.<= u>

Hmm, I should add regexp matches expli= citly, because that requires to expand the communities into ascii represent= ation in the matching engine.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Just that it does it without error.

If the numbers are too large, we shoul= d discuss reasonable limits.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm= ail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>; idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Hi Jakob,

=C2=A0

I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in = CLI or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is= rather not that interesting isn't it ?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does n= ot crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :)= ?

=C2=A0

Thx,

//R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheit= z) <jheitz@cisco.c= om> wrote:

The new update message size requires s= upport for:

16375 communities=

8187 extended communities

5458 large communities

I have not changed the as-path length,= because it is already ridiculously high.

If anyone wants to talk about a maximu= m as-path length, please speak up.

=C2=A0

I have added tests to the implementati= on report

https://t= rac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementa= tions

to ensure full compliance with the con= sequences of the draft.

=C2=A0

Implementers, please update your compl= iance.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM
To: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Great !

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:

Robert/Randy,

=C2=A0

About this being a default:

=C2=A0

Old (Section 4):

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].

=C2=A0

New (Section 4)

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=C2=A0


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by BN6PR09MB2131.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.160.147]) with mapi id 15.20.0239.009; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:29:54 +0000 From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , "Thomas Mangin" , Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQGq5uSAAAg/8QAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCLgAAChkMAAAJHFYAACFGHAAAAj3+AAAAbuIAAAITrgAAhcQSAAARgtwAABaxqgAAAaTSAAACxn4A= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:29:54 +0000 Message-ID: <9FC5C70F-B6B3-411B-A6A3-8652E2DEA778@nist.gov> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: 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AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQG3eYqAAAg/8gAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCKgAAChkQAAAJHFYAABIDZoAAEYC2AAAx+mpAAGMb1gP//5mEA//++cLuAAJH5AP//1Z3P Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:26:32 +0000 Message-ID: <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> , <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> In-Reply-To: <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2B92A1515A7846EE8A46C09603A37219ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: 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ZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_2B92A1515A7846EE8A46C09603A37219ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 22 15:36:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC7212947C; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.409 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.409 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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with SMTP id v65mr5907010wmv.11.1511393780664; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:36:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:36:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 00:36:19 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: I_hi6jlybPV0v3Jd9z5uU2HIbdw Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin , Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114238606990c7055e9ac9f3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:36:27 -0000 --001a114238606990c7055e9ac9f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jakob, You are very correct. But the way to address this point (and yes it would be great to address it) is to include in this current draft (a WG document after all) sections pertaining to each current BGP Attribute and its maximum size in the extended message. I think this is what was also Olivier's main point - not that your observations were wrong - they just did not fit with the current way documents are progressed. Or as I suggested add one line to the current spec stating that current attributes MUST not be extended in size unless a new specific RFC will allow for it as provide interop between 4k/65K boundary rules for each such attribute. Just placing those on implementation report wiki (while not being part of the document) is not part of the IDR process I am afraid. Besides even if someone reports it works today you have zero guarantees that it will work the same way tomorrow unless it is clearly spelled out in the RFC given implementation claims to support. Thx, R. On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an > update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, > then it=E2=80=99s broken. > > If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause > inoperable implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. > Either we assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify > shorter maximum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate. > > Oliver, what maximum sizes does your implementation support? > You can put those sizes into the wiki. > > Thanks, > Jakob. > > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < > oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: > > To my understanding the wiki should state compliance with the draft in > question and not particular BGP attributes. > > > > The draft is about the capability of sending and receiving updates larger > than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not propagated, as well as > the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would exceed= the newly > proposed max length of 64K, it is not about performance issues etc. > > > > To me the added questions in the wiki are more about the capability to > process individual attributes that might become large. This is outside th= e > scope of the draft in question. > > > > It seems to me that what you try to solve is not compliance with the > draft, it is more about the capability of particular implementations on h= ow > to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, quali= ty > of implementation, etc. but has nothing to do with the draft in question. > > > > In case there are issues with attributes getting too large and therefore > causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC=E2=80=99s dealing wi= th these > attributes should be updated. > > > > Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft and I do not see any > need to have these questions in the wiki. > > > > Oliver > > > > *From: *"Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" > *Date: *Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM > *To: *Oliver Borchert > *Cc: *Robert Raszuk , idr wg , " > idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas > Mangin , Randy Bush > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Larger message implies larger path attributes. You may answer =E2=80=9Cno= =E2=80=9D for the > parts with which you do not comply. > > > > If the implied path attribute sizes are too large, then we need to be > explicit about the maximum sizes for each attribute in the draft. Please > suggest reasonable maximum sizes. > > Thanks, > > Jakob. > > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < > oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: > > Jakob, > > > > I looked into the added questions for the compliance report you added on > the wiki. > > I am not quite sure that these added questions do apply for a compliance > of the requested draft. These do more apply to features used within BGP > that might result in larger BGP messages. > > And here the draft has a clear message in the last paragraph of section 3= : > > > > =E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers = are > > > conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=E2=80= =9D > > > > Therefore, they would more apply to proper functioning of implemented BGP > features rather than the extended message itself. I do not believe that > these new questions do apply here. > > > > Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that mainly focusses on BGPSE= C > updates. We did not add communities to the generated traffic and I do not > intent to do so in the near future (though community contributions are > welcome) =E2=80=93 in this sense, for sending my answer is NA. > > On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in itself is well formed > and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) there is no issue. We just > dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen. > > > > With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process communities of that length, > QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO do comply with the dra= ft > itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specifie= d > in the draft and we tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec > traffic of little less than 64 K. > > > > Oliver > > > > *From: *Idr on behalf of "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" < > jheitz@cisco.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM > *To: *Robert Raszuk > *Cc: *idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr < > idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > 1 hour ?? > > When I tested my large community code, I tested at the limit and over it. > > There was no perceptible time for the operations. > > 16 times imperceptible would be a blip at the most. > > The only operations that take a worrisome amount of time are regexp > matches with nested wildcards. > > Hmm, I should add regexp matches explicitly, because that requires to > expand the communities into ascii representation in the matching engine. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM > *To:* Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Thomas Mangin < > thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Just that it does it without error. > > If the numbers are too large, we should discuss reasonable limits. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com ] = *On > Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM > *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Cc:* Job Snijders ; idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org= ; > Idr ; Thomas Mangin > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Hi Jakob, > > > > I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit. > > > > Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CLI > or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is > rather not that interesting isn't it ? > > > > Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does not > crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :) = ? > > > > Thx, > > //R. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > wrote: > > The new update message size requires support for: > > 16375 communities > > 8187 extended communities > > 5458 large communities > > I have not changed the as-path length, because it is already ridiculously > high. > > If anyone wants to talk about a maximum as-path length, please speak up. > > > > I have added tests to the implementation report > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp- > extended-implementations > > > to ensure full compliance with the consequences of the draft. > > > > Implementers, please update your compliance. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM > *To:* Job Snijders > *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Idr = ; > Thomas Mangin > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag= es > (11/12 to 11/26) > > > > Great ! > > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > Robert/Randy, > > > > About this being a default: > > > > Old (Section 4): > > > > A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. > > > > New (Section 4) > > > > A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages > with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the > peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > --001a114238606990c7055e9ac9f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jakob,

<= /div>
You are very correct. But the way to address this p= oint (and yes it would be great to address it) is to include in this curren= t draft (a WG document after all) sections pertaining to each current BGP A= ttribute and its maximum size in the extended message. I think this is what= was also Olivier's main point - not that your observations were wrong = - they just did not fit with the current way documents are progressed.=C2= =A0

Or as I suggested = add one line to the current spec stating that current attributes MUST not b= e extended in size unless a new specific RFC will allow for it as provide i= nterop between 4k/65K boundary rules for each such attribute.=C2=A0

Just placing those on impleme= ntation report wiki (while not being part of the document) is not part of t= he IDR process I am afraid. Besides even if someone reports it works today = you have zero guarantees that it will work the same way tomorrow unless it = is clearly spelled out in the RFC given implementation claims to support.= =C2=A0

Thx,
R.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@c= isco.com> wrote:
If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an= update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, = then it=E2=80=99s broken.

If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause inopera= ble implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. Either we = assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify shorter maxi= mum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate.

Oliver, what maximum sizes does your implementation support?
You can put those sizes into the wiki.

Thanks,
Jakob.


On Nov 22, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>= ; wrote:

To my understanding the wiki should state complianc= e with the draft in question and not particular BGP attributes.

=C2=A0

The draft is about the capability of sending and re= ceiving updates larger than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not p= ropagated, as well as the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would exceed the newly proposed max length of 64K, it i= s not about performance issues etc.

=C2=A0

To me the added questions in the wiki are more abou= t the capability to process individual attributes that might become large. = This is outside the scope of the draft in question.

=C2=A0

It seems to me that what you try to solve is not co= mpliance with the draft, it is more about the capability of particular impl= ementations on how to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, quality of implementation, etc. bu= t has nothing to do with the draft in question.

=C2=A0

In case there are issues with attributes getting to= o large and therefore causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC= =E2=80=99s dealing with these attributes should be updated.

=C2=A0

Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft= and I do not see any need to have these questions in the wiki.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM
To: Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>, Randy Bush <= ;randy@psg.com> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Larger message implies larger path attributes. You m= ay answer =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D for the parts with which you do not comply.

=C2=A0

If the implied path a= ttribute sizes are too large, then we need to be explicit about the maximum= sizes for each attribute in the draft. Please suggest reasonable maximum s= izes.=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob.


On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>= wrote:

Jakob,

=C2=A0

I looked into the added questions for the complianc= e report you added on the wiki.

I am not quite sure that these added questions do a= pply for a compliance of the requested draft. These do more apply to featur= es used within BGP that might result in larger BGP messages.

And here the draft has a clear message in the last = paragraph of section 3:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol develo= pers and implementers are =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0 conservative in their application and use of= Extended Messages.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Therefore, they would more apply to proper function= ing of implemented BGP features rather than the extended message itself. I = do not believe that these new questions do apply here.

=C2=A0

Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that ma= inly focusses on BGPSEC updates. We did not add communities to the generate= d traffic and I do not intent to do so in the near future (though community contributions are welcome) =E2=80=93 in this= sense, for sending my answer is NA.

On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in= itself is well formed and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) th= ere is no issue. We just dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen.

=C2=A0

With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process commu= nities of that length, QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO d= o comply with the draft itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specified in the draft and we = tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec traffic of little less = than 64 K.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Jakob Heitz = (jheitz)" <jh= eitz@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin <t= homas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

1 hour ??

When I tested my large community code,= I tested at the limit and over it.

There was no perceptible time for the = operations.

16 times imperceptible would be a blip= at the most.

The only operations that take a worris= ome amount of time are regexp matches with nested wildcards.<= u>

Hmm, I should add regexp matches expli= citly, because that requires to expand the communities into ascii represent= ation in the matching engine.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Just that it does it without error.

If the numbers are too large, we shoul= d discuss reasonable limits.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm= ail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>; idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Hi Jakob,

=C2=A0

I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in = CLI or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is= rather not that interesting isn't it ?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does n= ot crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :)= ?

=C2=A0

Thx,

//R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheit= z) <jheitz@cisco.c= om> wrote:

The new update message size requires s= upport for:

16375 communities=

8187 extended communities

5458 large communities

I have not changed the as-path length,= because it is already ridiculously high.

If anyone wants to talk about a maximu= m as-path length, please speak up.

=C2=A0

I have added tests to the implementati= on report

https://t= rac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementa= tions

to ensure full compliance with the con= sequences of the draft.

=C2=A0

Implementers, please update your compl= iance.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM
To: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Great !

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:

Robert/Randy,

=C2=A0

About this being a default:

=C2=A0

Old (Section 4):

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].

=C2=A0

New (Section 4)

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=C2=A0


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15.00.1320.000; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:05:02 -0600 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin , Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) Thread-Index: AdNcB5lUqir6ZylBRUe7xuFnWiyeYQG3eYqAAAg/8gAAAS+JgAAAPKYAAAK34gAAABCKgAAChkQAAAJHFYAABIDZoAAEYC2AAAx+mpAAGMb1gP//5mEA//++cLuAAJH5AP//1Z3PgABnUID//7Q1Nw== Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:05:02 +0000 Message-ID: <78E497F6-068D-449D-8D9E-13EC37C39A08@cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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with SMTP id o185mr6151847wmg.105.1511428675522; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:17:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:17:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <78E497F6-068D-449D-8D9E-13EC37C39A08@cisco.com> References: <000901d35c08$3f12d950$bd388bf0$@ndzh.com> <39049A8C-6D47-4251-AF87-342F68DDE8AE@exa.net.uk> <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <78E497F6-068D-449D-8D9E-13EC37C39A08@cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:17:54 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b2SFHIGKXM0uoxgQUMJFt2wC64M Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas Mangin , Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114685924ed61c055ea2e92c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:18:02 -0000 --001a114685924ed61c055ea2e92c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes the proposed text addresses my concerns. I would only to it one more sentence: "=E2=80=8B The size of individual BGP path attributes MUST be small enough that they can fit into a BGP UPDATE message of 4096 octets. If a BGP feature requires a path attribute to be longer, then the required size of the path attribute MUST be specified in the RFC of the feature requiring it. *Such RFC MUST also specify the expected behavior on the boundary between peers which do support extended message size and those which do not."* Thx, Robert Raszuk. On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > I=E2=80=99m happy to add a sentence to the effect of: > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > The size of individual BGP path attributes MUST be small enough that they > can fit into a BGP UPDATE message of 4096 octets. If a BGP feature requir= es > a path attribute to be longer, then the required size of the path attribu= te > MUST be specified in the RFC of the feature requiring it. > > Thanks, > Jakob. > > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Jakob, > > You are very correct. But the way to address this point (and yes it would > be great to address it) is to include in this current draft (a WG documen= t > after all) sections pertaining to each current BGP Attribute and its > maximum size in the extended message. I think this is what was also > Olivier's main point - not that your observations were wrong - they just > did not fit with the current way documents are progressed. > > Or as I suggested add one line to the current spec stating that current > attributes MUST not be extended in size unless a new specific RFC will > allow for it as provide interop between 4k/65K boundary rules for each su= ch > attribute. > > Just placing those on implementation report wiki (while not being part of > the document) is not part of the IDR process I am afraid. Besides even if > someone reports it works today you have zero guarantees that it will work > the same way tomorrow unless it is clearly spelled out in the RFC given > implementation claims to support. > > Thx, > R. > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > wrote: > >> If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an >> update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it= , >> then it=E2=80=99s broken. >> >> If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause >> inoperable implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. >> Either we assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify >> shorter maximum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate. >> >> Oliver, what maximum sizes does your implementation support? >> You can put those sizes into the wiki. >> >> Thanks, >> Jakob. >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < >> oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: >> >> To my understanding the wiki should state compliance with the draft in >> question and not particular BGP attributes. >> >> >> >> The draft is about the capability of sending and receiving updates large= r >> than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not propagated, as well a= s >> the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would excee= d the newly >> proposed max length of 64K, it is not about performance issues etc. >> >> >> >> To me the added questions in the wiki are more about the capability to >> process individual attributes that might become large. This is outside t= he >> scope of the draft in question. >> >> >> >> It seems to me that what you try to solve is not compliance with the >> draft, it is more about the capability of particular implementations on = how >> to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, qual= ity >> of implementation, etc. but has nothing to do with the draft in question= . >> >> >> >> In case there are issues with attributes getting too large and therefore >> causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC=E2=80=99s dealing w= ith these >> attributes should be updated. >> >> >> >> Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft and I do not see any >> need to have these questions in the wiki. >> >> >> >> Oliver >> >> >> >> *From: *"Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" >> *Date: *Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM >> *To: *Oliver Borchert >> *Cc: *Robert Raszuk , idr wg , " >> idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr , Thomas >> Mangin , Randy Bush >> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges >> (11/12 to 11/26) >> >> >> >> Larger message implies larger path attributes. You may answer =E2=80=9Cn= o=E2=80=9D for >> the parts with which you do not comply. >> >> >> >> If the implied path attribute sizes are too large, then we need to be >> explicit about the maximum sizes for each attribute in the draft. Please >> suggest reasonable maximum sizes. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jakob. >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) < >> oliver.borchert@nist.gov> wrote: >> >> Jakob, >> >> >> >> I looked into the added questions for the compliance report you added on >> the wiki. >> >> I am not quite sure that these added questions do apply for a compliance >> of the requested draft. These do more apply to features used within BGP >> that might result in larger BGP messages. >> >> And here the draft has a clear message in the last paragraph of section = 3: >> >> >> >> =E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers= are >> >> >> conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=E2=80= =9D >> >> >> >> Therefore, they would more apply to proper functioning of implemented BG= P >> features rather than the extended message itself. I do not believe that >> these new questions do apply here. >> >> >> >> Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that mainly focusses on >> BGPSEC updates. We did not add communities to the generated traffic and = I >> do not intent to do so in the near future (though community contribution= s >> are welcome) =E2=80=93 in this sense, for sending my answer is NA. >> >> On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in itself is well forme= d >> and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) there is no issue. We jus= t >> dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen. >> >> >> >> With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process communities of that length= , >> QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO do comply with the dr= aft >> itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specifi= ed >> in the draft and we tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec >> traffic of little less than 64 K. >> >> >> >> Oliver >> >> >> >> *From: *Idr on behalf of "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" < >> jheitz@cisco.com> >> *Date: *Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM >> *To: *Robert Raszuk >> *Cc: *idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Idr = < >> idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin >> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges >> (11/12 to 11/26) >> >> >> >> 1 hour ?? >> >> When I tested my large community code, I tested at the limit and over it= . >> >> There was no perceptible time for the operations. >> >> 16 times imperceptible would be a blip at the most. >> >> The only operations that take a worrisome amount of time are regexp >> matches with nested wildcards. >> >> Hmm, I should add regexp matches explicitly, because that requires to >> expand the communities into ascii representation in the matching engine. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jakob >> >> >> >> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On >> Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz (jheitz) >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM >> *To:* Robert Raszuk >> *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Thomas Mangin < >> thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges >> (11/12 to 11/26) >> >> >> >> Just that it does it without error. >> >> If the numbers are too large, we should discuss reasonable limits. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jakob >> >> >> >> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com ]= *On >> Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM >> *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) >> *Cc:* Job Snijders ; idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.or= g; >> Idr ; Thomas Mangin >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges >> (11/12 to 11/26) >> >> >> >> Hi Jakob, >> >> >> >> I think what you added is fine, but requires a time limit. >> >> >> >> Statement that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CL= I >> or match in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is >> rather not that interesting isn't it ? >> >> >> >> Or is the indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does not >> crash regardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :)= ? >> >> >> >> Thx, >> >> //R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) >> wrote: >> >> The new update message size requires support for: >> >> 16375 communities >> >> 8187 extended communities >> >> 5458 large communities >> >> I have not changed the as-path length, because it is already ridiculousl= y >> high. >> >> If anyone wants to talk about a maximum as-path length, please speak up. >> >> >> >> I have added tests to the implementation report >> >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exten >> ded-implementations >> >> >> to ensure full compliance with the consequences of the draft. >> >> >> >> Implementers, please update your compliance. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jakob >> >> >> >> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM >> *To:* Job Snijders >> *Cc:* idr wg ; idr-ads@ietf.org; Idr ; >> Thomas Mangin >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa= ges >> (11/12 to 11/26) >> >> >> >> Great ! >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders wrote: >> >> Robert/Randy, >> >> >> >> About this being a default: >> >> >> >> Old (Section 4): >> >> >> >> A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BGP Extended Messages >> with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the >> peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492]. >> >> >> >> New (Section 4) >> >> >> >> A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BGP Extended Messages >> with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the >> peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492]. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> >> >> >> > --001a114685924ed61c055ea2e92c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes the pr= oposed text addresses my concerns. I would only to it one more sentence:=C2= =A0

"=E2=80=8B
The size o= f individual BGP path attributes MUST be small enough that they can fit int= o a BGP UPDATE message of 4096 octets. If a BGP feature requires a path att= ribute to be longer, then the required size of the path attribute MUST be s= pecified in the RFC of the feature requiring it. Such RFC MUST also spec= ify the expected behavior on the boundary between peers which do support ex= tended message size and those which do not."

<= div>Thx,
Robert Raszuk.


=

On Thu, Nov 23, 2= 017 at 2:05 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com> wrote= :
I=E2=80=99m happy to add a sentence to the effect of:
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
The size of = individual BGP path attributes MUST be small enough that they can fit into = a BGP UPDATE message of 4096 octets. If a BGP feature requires a path attri= bute to be longer, then the required size of the path attribute MUST be spe= cified in the RFC of the feature requiring it.

Thanks,
Jakob.


On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi Jakob,

You are very correct. But the way to address this point (and yes it would b= e great to address it) is to include in this current draft (a WG document a= fter all) sections pertaining to each current BGP Attribute and its maximum= size in the extended message. I think this is what was also Olivier's main point - not that your obser= vations were wrong - they just did not fit with the current way documents a= re progressed.=C2=A0

Or as I suggested add one line to the current spec stating that current att= ributes MUST not be extended in size unless a new specific RFC will allow f= or it as provide interop between 4k/65K boundary rules for each such attrib= ute.=C2=A0

Just placing those on implementation report wiki (while not being part of t= he document) is not part of the IDR process I am afraid. Besides even if so= meone reports it works today you have zero guarantees that it will work the= same way tomorrow unless it is clearly spelled out in the RFC given implementation claims to support.=C2= =A0

Thx,
R.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jakob Heitz (j= heitz) <jheitz@cisco.com<= /a>> wrote:
If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an= update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, = then it=E2=80=99s broken.

If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause inopera= ble implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. Either we = assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify shorter maxi= mum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate.

Oliver, what maximum sizes does your implementation support?
You can put those sizes into the wiki.

Thanks,
Jakob.

To my understanding the wiki should state compliance with the dra= ft in question and not particular BGP attributes.

=C2=A0

The draft is about the capability of sending and receiving update= s larger than 4K and how to handle if the capability is not propagated, as = well as the =E2=80=9C5 mile view=E2=80=9D on what to do if an update would exceed the newly proposed max length of 64K, it i= s not about performance issues etc.

=C2=A0

To me the added questions in the wiki are more about the capabili= ty to process individual attributes that might become large. This is outsid= e the scope of the draft in question.

=C2=A0

It seems to me that what you try to solve is not compliance with = the draft, it is more about the capability of particular implementations on= how to deal with larger updates and this might change with memory, CPU, quality of implementation, etc. bu= t has nothing to do with the draft in question.

=C2=A0

In case there are issues with attributes getting too large and th= erefore causing issues to BGP itself, then I believe the RFC=E2=80=99s deal= ing with these attributes should be updated.

=C2=A0

Again, I believe this is out of scope of this draft and I do not = see any need to have these questions in the wiki.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:16 PM
To: Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>, Randy Bush <= ;randy@psg.com> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0<= /span>

Larger message implies larger path attributes. You m= ay answer =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D for the parts with which you do not comply.

=C2=A0

If the implied path att= ribute sizes are too large, then we need to be explicit about the maximum s= izes for each attribute in the draft. Please suggest reasonable maximum siz= es.=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob.


On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>= wrote:

Jakob,

=C2=A0

I looked into the added questions for the compliance report you a= dded on the wiki.

I am not quite sure that these added questions do apply for a com= pliance of the requested draft. These do more apply to features used within= BGP that might result in larger BGP messages.

And here the draft has a clear message in the last paragraph of s= ection 3:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CIt is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and imple= menters are =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

=C2=A0 conservative in their application and use of Extended Mess= ages.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Therefore, they would more apply to proper functioning of impleme= nted BGP features rather than the extended message itself. I do not believe= that these new questions do apply here.

=C2=A0

Said that, BGPSEC-IO is a traffic generator that mainly focusses = on BGPSEC updates. We did not add communities to the generated traffic and = I do not intent to do so in the near future (though community contributions are welcome) =E2=80=93 in this= sense, for sending my answer is NA.

On the receiving side, as long as the BGP update in itself is wel= l formed and within its length boundaries (4K or < 64K) there is no issu= e. We just dump the update either on the =E2=80=9Cfloor=E2=80=9D or screen.

=C2=A0

With QuaggaSRx, as long as Quagga can process communities of that= length, QuaggaSRx can as well. QuaggaSRx same as BGPSEC-IO do comply with = the draft itself when it comes to accepting and generating > 4K updates as specified in the draft and we = tested the processing and memory usage using BGPsec traffic of little less = than 64 K.

=C2=A0

Oliver

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Jakob Heitz = (jheitz)" <jh= eitz@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 6:13 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>, "idr-ads@ietf.org" <idr-ads@ietf.org>, Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0<= u>

1 hour ??

When I tested my large community= code, I tested at the limit and over it.

There was no perceptible time fo= r the operations.

16 times imperceptible would be = a blip at the most.

The only operations that take a = worrisome amount of time are regexp matches with nested wildcards.

Hmm, I should add regexp matches= explicitly, because that requires to expand the communities into ascii rep= resentation in the matching engine.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:58 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>; Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Just that it does it without err= or.

If the numbers are too large, we= should discuss reasonable limits.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm= ail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>; idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Hi Jako= b,

=C2=A0<= /span>

I think= what you added is fine, but requires a time limit.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /span>

Stateme= nt that implementation can receive, parse/validate, display in CLI or match= in the policy 16K of communities all actions taking 1h each is rather not = that interesting isn't it ?=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

Or is t= he indicator of spec compliance a statement that it just does not crash reg= ardless of time it takes for execution of each stated action :) ?=

=C2=A0<= /span>

Thx,

//R.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheit= z) <jheitz@cisco.c= om> wrote:

The new update message size requ= ires support for:

16375 communities<= u>

8187 extended communities=

5458 large communities=

I have not changed the as-path l= ength, because it is already ridiculously high.

If anyone wants to talk about a = maximum as-path length, please speak up.

=C2=A0

I have added tests to the implem= entation report

htt= ps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impl= ementations

to ensure full compliance with t= he consequences of the draft.

=C2=A0

Implementers, please update your= compliance.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:41 AM
To: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; idr-ads@ietf.org;= Idr <idr-boun= ces@ietf.org>; Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26)

=C2=A0

Great !=

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:

Robert/Randy,

=C2=A0

About this being a default:

=C2=A0

Old (Section 4):

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is willing to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement RFC5492].=

=C2=A0

New (Section 4)

=C2=A0

A BGP speaker that is capable to send and receive BG= P Extended Messages with a peer SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message C= apability to the peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=C2=A0



--001a114685924ed61c055ea2e92c-- From nobody Sun Nov 26 18:22:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC599126BF6; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:22:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HPPKMM2G6tFE; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BDDA1200F1; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C603B220D36EA; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:22:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:22:49 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:22:45 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: idr wg CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IETF 100 IDR meeting minutes Thread-Index: AdNnJjxSP9QpNhRXRAGUinIxUJYpVQ== Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:22:44 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279816C3E0@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279816C3E0NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IETF 100 IDR meeting minutes X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:22:55 -0000 --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279816C3E0NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, The minutes of IDR session have been posted: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/minutes-100-idr/ Many thanks to Ignas for helping with the minute taking. Please review it and let us know if any additions/corrections is needed. Th= anks. Best regards, Jie --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279816C3E0NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

The minutes of IDR session have= been posted:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/meeting/100/materials/minutes-100-idr/

 

Many thanks to Ignas for helpin= g with the minute taking.

 

Please review it and let us kno= w if any additions/corrections is needed. Thanks.

 

Best regards,=

Jie

 

--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279816C3E0NKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Tue Nov 28 09:43:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9356126B6D for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKqiLvgfn8tZ for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6019D12420B for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8EFD71E344; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:47:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:47:00 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Nick Hilliard Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "idr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171128174700.GP16871@pfrc.org> References: <5A12F675.2030106@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5A12F675.2030106@foobar.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Query on draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-15 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:43:33 -0000 On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 03:36:21PM +0000, Nick Hilliard wrote: > Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > The IETF has moved on from SNMP-based management to YANG, refer to this > > IESG statement: > > > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/writable-mib-module.html > > the rest of the world is going to take many years to catch up with this > decision - usable YANG is only beginning to make its way into a small > segment of high-end kit out there, and there is a large segment of > market kit where it is likely never to be deployed. > > In the meantime - in this particular situation - we have no means of > monitoring ipv6 or vrf-enabled bgp sessions, other than screen-scraping. > It shouldn't need pointing out that this is a deficit with serious > operational consequences. Once upon a time, Sue said to a very new BGP developer: "Hey, I have this bit of IETF work that needs to be done. Interested?" MIB design was a very interesting set of life lessons. And similarly, dealing with conflicting opinions about "what belongs in the model". Mind you, this was in the day when there some level of insistence that things be not only monitorable via SNMP, but potentially configurable. A consequence of a number of these tensions, including the fact that BGP had an awful lot of optional (but common) features that could be modeled only with a bit of difficulty in SMI-v2 using abstract indices, meant that there was a very high degree of *thrash* in the work. This taxed our MIB doctors more than a little - thankless work that they still are owed many libations for. The big vendors at various snapshot points implemented portions of the BGP MIBv2 as enterprise MIBs. Mostly the useful bits: peering sessions, counters. The actual routing table data... yeah, they skipped it. SNMP is really an awful hammer to try to grab that stuff from anyway. And trying to wedge in all of the different optional things lead to tables of tables... ick. mibv2-15 is in a state where most of the big vendors can likely leverage their enterprise mibs and their existing routing table stuff and do the code to ship this in reasonable order. But most aren't interested. I occasionally hope to grab the cycles myself to just finish it on my end, but convincing the rest of product management to do the test and other work hasn't panned out. If there's need to actually dust off this MIB, it won't take much work to do so. But it'll take quite some convincing, I think. -- Jeff (author) P.S. The issue related to the fact that BGP is a maze of optional features still hasn't been fully resolved in the yang model work that is currently in progress. But at least yang let's you do something about having optional features. From nobody Tue Nov 28 10:29:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54027128954; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aTL4EObid1VY; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011EE128CD5; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4968E1E37B; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:33:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:33:13 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" , Robert Raszuk , Idr , Thomas Mangin Message-ID: <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> References: <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:29:45 -0000 [I'm choosing this message as my response point, but not intending to suggest that other bits of the thread weren't relevant.] On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 11:26:32PM +0000, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, then it’s broken. > > If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause inoperable implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. Either we assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify shorter maximum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate. BGP has always had an issue with features that had the risk of overflowing the Path Attributes. I've seen this (as likely have others supporting implementations) with odd combinations of AS_PATH, communities, etc. Extended communities and new features simply make this more likely. My take on the issue is this: - If you've selected a route and are attempting to send it to a neighbor and you are unable to format a valid BGP PDU containing only a single NLRI, you MUST NOT try to send it. - If you previously sent reachability for that NLRI, and are unable to send it as above, you MUST withdraw it. Otherwise you run the risk of improper reachability or forwarding. Basically, "treat as withdraw" applies here. IMO, it's no different for extended messsages. If I receive a > 4k message and I can't format it for a subsequent peer, treat as withdraw for those peers. Where we've had good room for discussion has been what to do in order to avoid these sort of things: - Are there circumstances where we might be able to drop an optional attribute? Maybe. This seems messy to me. - Are there circumstances where we might be able to limit the size of large attributes? (E.g. communities.) Possibly. But this may be unsafe and would be highly circumstantial. Whose route-target do you drop from a VPN route as an example? - Is there wisdom in suggesting "old world" path attributes shouldn't be allowed to overflow the 4k limit? Possibly. Then you start getting into interesting mixes of combinatorics. For example, long AS_PATH and a long community list together. Implementations already do things like limit maximum AS_PATH length. My personal opinion on the mitigations is that we shouldn't try to be normative about them in the spec. As noted in the AS_PATH example, vendors already limit some attributes to be shorter than what the protocol might maximally allow. Leave it to the implementations to provide knobs appropriate to those implementations. There may be room in the spec suggesting that such things are possible. We *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Nov 28 11:02:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531AB1270A0; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZa0LrD-vQcp; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB90B126557; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id l141so1623970wmg.1; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3W6h8O7QcAGClN8zNa/wQPJlT7Bs/+pW9kNLnh986A4=; b=UiuGlZXj354qs29Rd8YLNa1AdcKlBOzQ7mqbLSTZqPuzL60Qeo7ewjwVi49O4A9wf2 rV7FPbAJXlpu5j3RFzMQ3KTM47ELT6Y2MbZrrBS6VCr1UY4KZj/XNfwS3gB3+d6VNxC6 Zsdtg93Ycc3U22v+2/h7GB5qKVzuFpzAzKqFccMr0D9b00IKFcBOU198/67M11KzRikr KWA+DrYHBNpZ+1ufy36Io4y+Km3f000hLE8nUyJwDLt+m/XYQQwsm7PfUv0h28yGNs5i pjow8osyjUhxuRGoNd+8so9/v1Wtn0tvY8VMZlfFiDzTnxORUx0xGA0puV4xCcKVIQ/x R6Kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3W6h8O7QcAGClN8zNa/wQPJlT7Bs/+pW9kNLnh986A4=; b=OYKcviIWeaZqlDofajUlqr45ZFBrm5oTrIGe4F4A13rrtiZd8z11sfDaee+0DI3Ypt 69oj6VAaH5+EDmtacKAM0f0oxV8CAb4Ly9Y63W/lhSQl42+cFnHLaMFhn1+V54rtQYfK ejqWhHavu/t2aeNuQdQTSVGHy/YmYaub87ccBx/0//HUmNH37g6bv6u1dGLIztS39xe5 KDixztjgs09SWJPiermqEYQIL2gRk5T7UpBGfzz80wGi/OWV4Npy61NiyFHVbLStp3w3 kTIpfyI3Tvx/T56JNKqSoh7sqBtNt9aSk0EPjujQQEcumi45x00EXS1kiUl9MRLkv8pD yruQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX65eBFQ7vQrhL9EtTjbu9/kWir9NMD+npJ0Vl0lCkXQPRUrZua6 ThFDYKi0BZtqZ0VMyYcxxTlCkqmJEOmTjev2GbhvSrY0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZ6rNdvCoKDzdgljrjbcNlIMYdx/w+OfuXnT/QOPs86soihKD69lYAAxByuSGPqAzrdvx0bONYiSrF8kYd4cyQ= X-Received: by 10.28.5.201 with SMTP id 192mr535670wmf.142.1511895754127; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:02:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> References: <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:02:32 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Z2_Yq3464i8lO0LUYM_T7iXxCso Message-ID: To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143816e5cbfd3055f0fa9d4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:02:38 -0000 --001a1143816e5cbfd3055f0fa9d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, > We *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior. This does provide one way to address my main point that the draft MUST be updated to define what to do when you get to a bottleneck. Otherwise each implementation will try to do their own thing which will be a disaster. However your suggestion creates troubleshooting nightmare. How does a sender is to know that some routers 3 ASes away did not get his prefix ? How does the receiver is to know that because he is running older device with no software upgrade possible he will be potentially missing some routes ? Do we no longer care that any BGP4 proposal no matter how great and useful it is MUST be incrementally deployable ? Thx, R. On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > [I'm choosing this message as my response point, but not intending to > suggest that other bits of the thread weren't relevant.] > > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 11:26:32PM +0000, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > > If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an > update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, > then it=E2=80=99s broken. > > > > If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause > inoperable implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. > Either we assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify > shorter maximum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate. > > BGP has always had an issue with features that had the risk of overflowin= g > the Path Attributes. I've seen this (as likely have others supporting > implementations) with odd combinations of AS_PATH, communities, etc. > Extended communities and new features simply make this more likely. > > My take on the issue is this: > - If you've selected a route and are attempting to send it to a neighbor > and > you are unable to format a valid BGP PDU containing only a single NLRI, > you MUST NOT try to send it. > - If you previously sent reachability for that NLRI, and are unable to se= nd > it as above, you MUST withdraw it. Otherwise you run the risk of > improper reachability or forwarding. > > Basically, "treat as withdraw" applies here. > > IMO, it's no different for extended messsages. If I receive a > 4k messa= ge > and I can't format it for a subsequent peer, treat as withdraw for those > peers. > > Where we've had good room for discussion has been what to do in order to > avoid these sort of things: > - Are there circumstances where we might be able to drop an optional > attribute? Maybe. This seems messy to me. > - Are there circumstances where we might be able to limit the size of lar= ge > attributes? (E.g. communities.) Possibly. But this may be unsafe and > would be highly circumstantial. Whose route-target do you drop from a > VPN > route as an example? > - Is there wisdom in suggesting "old world" path attributes shouldn't be > allowed to overflow the 4k limit? Possibly. Then you start getting in= to > interesting mixes of combinatorics. For example, long AS_PATH and a lo= ng > community list together. Implementations already do things like limit > maximum AS_PATH length. > > My personal opinion on the mitigations is that we shouldn't try to be > normative about them in the spec. As noted in the AS_PATH example, vendo= rs > already limit some attributes to be shorter than what the protocol might > maximally allow. Leave it to the implementations to provide knobs > appropriate to those implementations. There may be room in the spec > suggesting that such things are possible. > > We *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior. > > -- Jeff > --001a1143816e5cbfd3055f0fa9d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeff,

> We= *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior.

This does provide one way to address my= main point that the draft MUST be updated to define what to do when you ge= t to a bottleneck. Otherwise each implementation will try to do their own t= hing which will be a disaster.=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">However your suggestion creates= troubleshooting nightmare. How does a sender is to know that some routers = 3 ASes away did not get his prefix ? How does the receiver is to know that = because he is running older device with no software upgrade possible he wil= l be potentially missing some routes ?=C2=A0

Do we no longer care that any BGP4 proposal n= o matter how great and useful it is MUST be incrementally deployable=C2=A0?= =C2=A0

Thx,
R.


On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Je= ffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
[I'm choosing this message as my response po= int, but not intending to
suggest that other bits of the thread weren't relevant.]

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 11:26:32PM +0000, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote:
> If router A follows this draft, then it can quite legitimately send an= update with 16000 communities. If router B cannot receive and process it, = then it=E2=80=99s broken.
>
> If path attribute size is not addressed, then this draft will cause in= operable implementations. As such, it is not fit for standardization. Eithe= r we assume the maximum possible size for all attributes or specify shorter= maximum sizes. Anything less leads to failure to interoperate.

BGP has always had an issue with features that had the risk of overf= lowing
the Path Attributes.=C2=A0 I've seen this (as likely have others suppor= ting
implementations) with odd combinations of AS_PATH, communities, etc.
Extended communities and new features simply make this more likely.

My take on the issue is this:
- If you've selected a route and are attempting to send it to a neighbo= r and
=C2=A0 you are unable to format a valid BGP PDU containing only a single NL= RI,
=C2=A0 you MUST NOT try to send it.
- If you previously sent reachability for that NLRI, and are unable to send=
=C2=A0 it as above, you MUST withdraw it.=C2=A0 Otherwise you run the risk = of
=C2=A0 improper reachability or forwarding.

Basically, "treat as withdraw" applies here.

IMO, it's no different for extended messsages.=C2=A0 If I receive a >= ; 4k message
and I can't format it for a subsequent peer, treat as withdraw for thos= e
peers.

Where we've had good room for discussion has been what to do in order t= o
avoid these sort of things:
- Are there circumstances where we might be able to drop an optional
=C2=A0 attribute?=C2=A0 Maybe.=C2=A0 This seems messy to me.
- Are there circumstances where we might be able to limit the size of large=
=C2=A0 attributes?=C2=A0 (E.g. communities.)=C2=A0 Possibly.=C2=A0 But this= may be unsafe and
=C2=A0 would be highly circumstantial.=C2=A0 Whose route-target do you drop= from a VPN
=C2=A0 route as an example?
- Is there wisdom in suggesting "old world" path attributes shoul= dn't be
=C2=A0 allowed to overflow the 4k limit?=C2=A0 Possibly.=C2=A0 Then you sta= rt getting into
=C2=A0 interesting mixes of combinatorics.=C2=A0 For example, long AS_PATH = and a long
=C2=A0 community list together.=C2=A0 Implementations already do things lik= e limit
=C2=A0 maximum AS_PATH length.

My personal opinion on the mitigations is that we shouldn't try to be normative about them in the spec.=C2=A0 As noted in the AS_PATH example, ve= ndors
already limit some attributes to be shorter than what the protocol might maximally allow.=C2=A0 Leave it to the implementations to provide knobs
appropriate to those implementations.=C2=A0 There may be room in the spec suggesting that such things are possible.

We *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior.

-- Jeff

--001a1143816e5cbfd3055f0fa9d4-- From nobody Tue Nov 28 11:11:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A80A126BF6; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:11:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fIL37M211t67; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253161241F3; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5EFF81E344; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:14:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:14:58 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171128191457.GU16871@pfrc.org> References: <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:11:30 -0000 Robert, On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 08:02:32PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > We *MUST* be normative about the treat as withdraw behavior. > > This does provide one way to address my main point that the draft MUST be > updated to define what to do when you get to a bottleneck. Otherwise each > implementation will try to do their own thing which will be a disaster. > > However your suggestion creates troubleshooting nightmare. How does a > sender is to know that some routers 3 ASes away did not get his prefix ? > How does the receiver is to know that because he is running older device > with no software upgrade possible he will be potentially missing some > routes ? We don't know this today. I don't believe trying to solve it in this document helps. > Do we no longer care that any BGP4 proposal no matter how great and useful > it is MUST be incrementally deployable ? I do not see this as world ending. :-) The original scenario for bgpsec is one where we had significant concerns about too-small UPDATE messages causing issues. We had to address the issues there. And we already know that as a feature it has incremental deployment challenges. For everything else, the cases I'm currently familiar with that are likely to cause quasi-legitimate overflows are mostly VPN scenarios. The "blast radius" is thus somewhat local. I'm curious about other known scenarios. There is likely good room for GROW to pick up the topic of how to mitigate overflows. I think the IDR audience is somewhat too narrow. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Nov 28 11:25:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8C712426E; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJobV4EiPc8q; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D817E126CF9; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id w62so1170579wrc.6; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=befjPbdFeF3X2haApWLZbOf2182C8XpRO8ieuntmtDE=; b=QD8eDFuI1DATuRzYWDpwQRrdTJiSSYcvljys0FVLbcLU3oc2enmvk8Dh5vXZTZ7DNu bngwheJNfh6ipLNLFIuX45SNzbcSkhZEqEOCjykJ5bcM0dxIKFMkmJ/KtyEUySIjbX79 UqIiI5YDxXHaqZYSW9XXG4GHIBEWZ+PWCMeia/KJ8R4mVAyDmlnKxyYMl0PSTzwglAP5 Lt2njOPiNPoNv0zvwdcplIp5v8ON5NLLHfxDDp7pYukKkNWNLZTHi+MX+mLyjUJY9Fha wdhJH0jjrJ8TNAHP60fJ7cTkdrWnNwbjBmKdGWqciRAWzS9/mQo2O+pbNTmwrdXJ+LTt Fa3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=befjPbdFeF3X2haApWLZbOf2182C8XpRO8ieuntmtDE=; b=hPfV50QS9jBxYDeVqUjhTYs0FloV6VF4SsA5ycJsraMZUQ3919x+UgW00u+jwQxoPP aGvSgb2kkdY91efirZeJnXKfH0Pn1EBO4etzhjLdVTHGbwipNEY7D4ncbPoIj6p3rum3 2LqiC704ePHyyKnUrjXW0MgQDlV9n/xlQwq5GtvshnVVVQiLOQIQWcQ+LEWMGE/EmYeh m3zvqAep++Ooozk7zvThE8J/fuHvap89m5ihdU2/4eJZhoAe0EqCxplEeSgoZ3vXe2Vo S1CfZmyEXES6jD6sq+94LOt6BLwwzMpaJV5cjRWvt4Y74DWJTzgbqWf2nfroCBIDj0Tw UrSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6Th/L3PqR/xyR6wrrcYY6ib1brVCez7/8t27UchwnMqRDhrfLo mSliVBH5kuuvhbMMromMnVSqZOmBQ9CQvEB2eIw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaA+UMFCbC+RYuPdHdaoaDcbvLws6IGniHhdY3v3KEaK9Hqf2AEk99MugcWn2bOXdURUct7XcSlqYgcL/oHJBI= X-Received: by 10.223.183.39 with SMTP id l39mr166837wre.175.1511897136081; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:25:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171128191457.GU16871@pfrc.org> References: <976743ea96934039a85fa74415b45862@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> <20171128191457.GU16871@pfrc.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:25:35 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZGaZnQF1pKuloBChb69NAPyXOIA Message-ID: To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043868bcbbb386055f0ffb64" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:25:39 -0000 --f403043868bcbbb386055f0ffb64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B I don't believe trying to solve it in this document helps. Never suggested that. > =E2=80=8B The original scenario for bgpsec is one where we had significant concerns > about too-small UPDATE messages causing issues. We had to address the > issues there. And we already know that as a feature it has incremental > deployment challenges. Well if this is still for BGPSEC I think your suggestion to treat-as-withdraw is not that good. I do prefer to get unsecured reachability then no reachability at all. And if you make it treat-as-withdraw as MUST even if BGSEC itself says to drop crypto when it does not fit it is quite unlikely that anyone will even try to secure BGP UPDATES any time soon. Cheers, R. --f403043868bcbbb386055f0ffb64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
I don't believe trying to solve it in this = document helps.

Never suggested that.=C2=A0

>= =E2=80=8B
The original s= cenario for bgpsec is one where we had significant concerns
>=C2=A0abou= t too-small UPDATE messages causing issues.=C2=A0 We had to address the
>=C2=A0issues there.=C2=A0 And we already know that as a feature it has in= cremental
>=C2=A0deployment challenges.

Well if this is still for BGPSEC I think your suggestion= to treat-as-withdraw is not=C2=A0
that good.=C2=A0I do prefer to get unsecured=C2=A0reachability then no reachability a= t all.=C2=A0

=
And if you make it treat-as-withdra= w as MUST even if BGSEC itself says to drop=C2=A0
crypto when it does not fit it is quite unlikely that a= nyone will even try to secure=C2=A0
BGP UPDATES any time soon.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.
--f403043868bcbbb386055f0ffb64-- From nobody Tue Nov 28 11:37:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757D2128D16; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:37:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMHSKSCOU9oo; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4DC126CBF; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 120F71E344; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:40:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:40:48 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171128194048.GV16871@pfrc.org> References: <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> <20171128191457.GU16871@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:37:20 -0000 Robert, On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 08:25:35PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > The original scenario for bgpsec is one where we had significant concerns > > about too-small UPDATE messages causing issues. We had to address the > > issues there. And we already know that as a feature it has incremental > > deployment challenges. > > Well if this is still for BGPSEC I think your suggestion to > treat-as-withdraw is not > that good. I do prefer to get unsecured reachability then no reachability > at all. If a bgpsec speaker chooses to "downgrade" its reachability, that's its choice. In such a case, it would no longer be trying to overflow the 4k PDU. Similarly, routers that limit AS_PATH length choosing to not propagate (and treat as withdraw) an AS_PATH that exceeds its local limit is a local choice. > And if you make it treat-as-withdraw as MUST even if BGSEC itself says to > drop > crypto when it does not fit it is quite unlikely that anyone will even try > to secure > BGP UPDATES any time soon. bgpsec implementations are likely to deploy extended messages in tandem. I don't find the argument you seem to be making compelling. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Nov 28 11:40:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E6B128D6F; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b78LkrokSBfO; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8697712894A; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id l22so1193244wrc.11; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=k2V3GRYFLpin6fvh+Vpr4C25PDDGnqtQ3fWNnGFDY2o=; b=NyExmX7HR3b/JT9pyyCCxWLZ9olpdIox+Q5mZT8IqFD3NjRlXDz+m5/aNMmthOvc7W +YwpvAXIEArrMFlSn17doB82lQgxm/hCc6UxmRja1AX9QdJQ/WeGoF3jPK62FzFyLvn6 jjQAg6DGHZZ6clFND0jjIDHsWL9SBJBk6Jk+I+YmN0O4TmmoAD1MFZ2AZHjLBPknokCM tczyi79eNxe/6xnanc2T0AGjStUHMMMzC9+t4c5IbqsmZWytpkAtHnFay3Shh8c8kkk1 jljSRX+HrU+X23xZt2KVbDTvhARoSFmLQakx3Y2Y0Dunc3SrLoUSEsFXlxIqBSRQAqwG MpHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=k2V3GRYFLpin6fvh+Vpr4C25PDDGnqtQ3fWNnGFDY2o=; b=gF7od8xwz8BAUr1VE7sJxDjnN1DaLjQEvLTtc8Snn1N57NTc3v+nXIQvigGQMwU7IP S6dsfDvH11XwUoT7+dSuW41vEeEQ9zqUe7/Vl3D+0eVwU0JE0gVQRGlfo00owUl0mAGb niNLQrPpdMIMfBQ61sFmgxE72l7YeccFEbtkD3NbqC2A/Cp4crD6l5O6K+4ICKxefF6Y Z3szEdVqCIJgi4b++5WkWI+QwzoJ+H9qVZ1Zoctql07tzUTgzy4BA7yGUvD+8k/NRerI i3ede8bvpwZjlbXQkwZ7s57g40acgGrE5ae9UvgTboXQ+weQt+YW2vVGZtmkmYsZP1wU eNvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX43hBtxvvuOSHMWAbrpSji7qHhuBqGGcOdiFIPTiPN8VCZp4nUN PwUTMYvAaiBM7+KfNmQdVN5mzJDvdJ5oiuE3mySTgEeV X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbL1q1rcQeWY234xId/lFNiseGaH6vY5gft1BdUOhHYPTc8kiz1Z726TedJzGxbJ3suaXnjwI+pKz5UGNw+9A0= X-Received: by 10.223.183.39 with SMTP id l39mr196911wre.175.1511898049884; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:40:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171128194048.GV16871@pfrc.org> References: <88d5df779a344b588745108c771d3145@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <1D2FD437-0EEF-4FF6-9853-C09E7EEA2A15@nist.gov> <2B92A151-5A78-46EE-8A46-C09603A37219@cisco.com> <20171128183312.GT16871@pfrc.org> <20171128191457.GU16871@pfrc.org> <20171128194048.GV16871@pfrc.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:40:49 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: QDV8FvaCvqMD0iZTv2Got0GNRBI Message-ID: To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "idr-ads@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043868bc333d5b055f10324e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call foir draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (11/12 to 11/26) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:40:53 -0000 --f403043868bc333d5b055f10324e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > bgpsec implementations are likely to deploy extended messages in tandem. Is this just your assumption or is this enforced in any IETF document ? This is important news no one earlier mentioned in this entire thread. Thx --f403043868bc333d5b055f10324e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> bgpsec implementations = are likely to deploy extended messages in tandem.
Is this just your assumption or is this enforced in any= IETF document ?=C2=A0

This is imp= ortant news no one earlier mentioned in this entire thread.=C2=A0

Thx
--f403043868bc333d5b055f10324e-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 23:13:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D74A126CD6; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:12:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151202597429.4853.3437383152363157089@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:12:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 07:12:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Distribution of MPLS-TE Extended admin Group Using BGP Authors : Zitao Wang Qin Wu Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2017-11-29 Abstract: As MPLS-TE network grows, administrative Groups advertised as a fixed-length 32-bit Bitmask is quite constraining. "Extended Administrative Group" IGP TE extensions sub-TLV is introduced to provide for additional administrative groups (link colors) beyond the current limit of 32. This document describes extensions to BGP protocol, that can be used to distribute extended administrative groups in MPLS-TE. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 29 23:25:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9A9127419 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:25:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k5sFDeAcA6rX for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0E231200F1 for ; 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Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:45:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:45:54 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:45:54 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: a6GKmiUdubLFjq-MOlhNXZIDQfw Message-ID: To: idr wg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082fe404551112055f301e5e" Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:46:01 -0000 --089e082fe404551112055f301e5e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" /* While the draft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion is really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */ Hi, I looked at draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt and would like to share few comments on it. The draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal extended admin groups of a links in the TE domain relaxing the current limit of 32 bits. Observations: 1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If the latter the title needs to be changed. 2. While it is usually considered good to have more then less of anything let's look at the bigger picture and the consequences of this proposal in respect to its current applicability of MPLS-TE: Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of the full picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESSION_ATTRIBUTE of RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7 Signalling more then 32 bits will just not fit the current space hence fundamental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) operation are broken. Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modified to accomodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits. IMO if there is real need to have more then 32 admin groups per link in a TE domain the right process would be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs for it. Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while can steer packets via constrained paths do not guarantee any interface level reservations or packet prioritization. Those are control plane driven features. As such one could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity classes there is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to offer more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion it is likely that packets assumed to be classified into one admin group will likely compete for bandwith in the same queue with packets classified into different group. So while I do not have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigger picture observations which I believe need to be addressed and need to become formal references in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any further. Cheers, Robert. --089e082fe404551112055f301e5e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
/* While the draft is in IDR I am addin= g MPLS WG here as the discussion is really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */

Hi,

I looked at=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-eag-distrib= ution-05.txt and would like to share few comments on it.=C2=A0

The draft defines extension to BGP= -LS in order for the node to signal extended admin groups of a links in the= TE domain relaxing the current limit of 32 bits.=C2=A0

Observations:
1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE or als= o to SR networks ? If the latter the title needs to be changed.=C2=A0
=

2. While it is usually cons= idered good to have more then less of anything let's look at the bigger= picture and the consequences of this proposal in respect to its current ap= plicability of MPLS-TE:=C2=A0

Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of= the full picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESSION_A= TTRIBUTE of RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7

Signalling more then 32 bits will jus= t not fit the current space hence fundamental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) = operation are broken.=C2=A0

Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modified= to accomodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits.=C2=A0

IMO if there is real need to have m= ore then 32 admin groups per link in a TE domain the right process would be= to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs for it.=C2=A0

Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while c= an steer packets via constrained paths do not guarantee any interface level= reservations or packet prioritization. Those are control plane driven feat= ures.=C2=A0

As such on= e could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity classes ther= e is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to offer more the= n 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion it is likely th= at packets assumed to be classified into one admin group will likely compet= e for bandwith in the same queue with packets classified into different gro= up.

So while I do not = have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigger picture observa= tions which I believe need to be addressed and need to become formal refere= nces in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any further.

Cheers,
Robert.

--089e082fe404551112055f301e5e-- From nobody Thu Nov 30 02:20:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D453C1293FF; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id im_2J3mSju1H; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EDC01293FD; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n138so1024081wmg.2; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=V70tCLZ8s38WgkXWV0udvIOuMv0xho0DGQYu5icIjvY=; b=NEjrxZ43zOMy9EsMSIK5gQH+sRxkFciyuUfmF5kI9LYK9Rml1Wr7doMhcs1dkX6Ncd mVkI4F3Lqh7R59HxSTWGCiDr0YIJlq7h6MBFxCpwHysb5Z/2IvywUfztx/QfgUp33p0f XzL2/pF1p69VzhVNMP9Ilz6FyVzXcdsGjUZa+t3Rw7n7HFNczTBs5o1gnVBeHDAd7TO9 h0qytxXUDpTxqent2sUrJhDsromf3hI+1xYIuzXF6iKz+RfX3oe3OYqaOSfw5qxYhxoP +6qgfLp+UDmpvmq/yb6xZcK6a0sd3GrcP++wnJmRnR04UIUZq7aa7FmNxWL15fMvET+Z nLYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=V70tCLZ8s38WgkXWV0udvIOuMv0xho0DGQYu5icIjvY=; b=Dcq3iOHkyO685O9ejpYs7hAc6z3QuVBM4CJbYygijEhg7LwfdFdF+U2ena3X1IJ+tJ M4T9Vvy/HBJo4Q/zK5NgSBmQpVs8azFK5+An6MZKXO6KFe85bWnaOZBbmiLPv+E6iU1o 2mXoktVVQwdGg7iBvLhgGn6NGtCmOBbXg3dgyDwdczNehIxz7M25FKAtoDrF6pdYObly Ztn5xje0pfz6guNWsLYxur2d4E1woYtrjMBX0dm5A/N70mApS/HN6723/dGf9DZ3EgGT zrh6Tj9b+rMOUlCf5TssRZ+hYA1b/+ZaVCOFbKgkqc+HrPkc4QEfTTdrZzfwcBSHplIV 7HXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7B54r3IhdJ2OO03ch+f4nOIOp6TfCjajurm6eoaQyymd1smXZz emx1EgnvvcU0L9O52vPNVYo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbCaEz8aiTcIROWlhRxRGMY7wx+9vU9mc1Ol8+5EpZpv2DlGM/Ly0Dsg+MN60vkvI3IAuhBYg== X-Received: by 10.28.173.213 with SMTP id w204mr123768wme.126.1512037203868; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.103.249.70] ([195.219.17.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l25sm4159837wmi.35.2017.11.30.02.20.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:20:11 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Robert Raszuk , idr wg CC: "mpls@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3594853212_1744931488" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:20:08 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3594853212_1744931488 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Robert, =20 The draft provides BGP-LS facility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 3630 and 5= 305 (AG->EAG), aka link coloring, nothing to do with BW reservations or pack= et prioritization. RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable solution, if I recall correc= tly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was using TLV138 while XR = Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed is about 5 years late=E2=80= =A6 There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form of feature requests = =E2=98=BA You might not believe it =E2=80=93 but there are still networks running RSVP-TE a= t a rather large scale. =20 I agree =E2=80=93 a wider look is necessary, but BGP-LS might not be the first pl= ace to start. =20 Hope this clarifies. =20 Thanks, Jeff From: Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 01:46 To: idr wg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt =20 /* While the draft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion is = really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */ =20 Hi, =20 I looked at draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt and would like to share = few comments on it.=20 =20 The draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal exten= ded admin groups of a links in the TE domain relaxing the current limit of 3= 2 bits.=20 =20 Observations: =20 1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If the = latter the title needs to be changed.=20 =20 2. While it is usually considered good to have more then less of anything l= et's look at the bigger picture and the consequences of this proposal in res= pect to its current applicability of MPLS-TE:=20 =20 Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of the full= picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESSION_ATTRIBUTE o= f RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7 =20 Signalling more then 32 bits will just not fit the current space hence fund= amental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) operation are broken.=20 =20 Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modified to ac= comodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits.=20 =20 IMO if there is real need to have more then 32 admin groups per link in a T= E domain the right process would be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs fo= r it.=20 =20 Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while can steer packets via constraine= d paths do not guarantee any interface level reservations or packet prioriti= zation. Those are control plane driven features.=20 =20 As such one could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity cl= asses there is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to offer= more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion it is l= ikely that packets assumed to be classified into one admin group will likely= compete for bandwith in the same queue with packets classified into differe= nt group. =20 So while I do not have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigg= er picture observations which I believe need to be addressed and need to bec= ome formal references in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any fu= rther. =20 Cheers, Robert. =20 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.o= rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr=20 --B_3594853212_1744931488 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Robert,

 

The draft provides BGP-LS facility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 363= 0 and 5305 (AG->EAG), aka link coloring, nothing to do with BW reservatio= ns or packet prioritization.

RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable solut= ion, if I recall correctly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was= using TLV138 while XR Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed = is about 5 years late=E2=80=A6

There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form o= f feature requests =E2=98=BA

=

You might not believe it =E2= =80=93 but there are still networks running RSVP-TE at a rather large scale.

&nb= sp;

I agre= e =E2=80=93 a wider look is necessary, but BGP-LS might not be the first place to = start.

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

From:= Idr <idr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date:= Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 01:46
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.= org>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
= Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt<= /p>

 <= /p>

/* While the draft is in ID= R I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion is really about MPLS-TE and not= BGP */

&= nbsp;

Hi,

 

I looked at draft-ietf-id= r-eag-distribution-05.txt and would like to share few comments on it. <= o:p>

=  

The draft defines ext= ension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal extended admin groups of a = links in the TE domain relaxing the current limit of 32 bits. 

 

Observations:

 

<= /div>

1. Is the draft only applicable to M= PLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If the latter the title needs to be changed.=  

&n= bsp;

= 2. While it is= usually considered good to have more then less of anything let's look at th= e bigger picture and the consequences of this proposal in respect to its cur= rent applicability of MPLS-TE: 

 

Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny pi= ece of the full picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESS= ION_ATTRIBUTE of RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7<= /span>

 <= /p>

Signalling more then 32 bits wil= l just not fit the current space hence fundamental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-= TE) operation are broken. 

 

Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modi= fied to accomodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits. =

 =

IMO if there is real need to ha= ve more then 32 admin groups per link in a TE domain the right process would= be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs for it. 

 

=

Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE whil= e can steer packets via constrained paths do not guarantee any interface lev= el reservations or packet prioritization. Those are control plane driven fea= tures. 

<= o:p> 

As such = one could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity classes the= re is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to offer more the= n 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion it is likely tha= t packets assumed to be classified into one admin group will likely compete = for bandwith in the same queue with packets classified into different group.=

 

So while I do not ha= ve concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigger picture observatio= ns which I believe need to be addressed and need to become formal references= in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any further.

 

=

Cheers,

=

Robert.

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'> 

_______________________________________= ________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo= /idr

--B_3594853212_1744931488-- From nobody Thu Nov 30 06:13:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF6F12946C; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UrsPHOIzYPgX; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0E22126C2F; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id b76so12727630wmg.1; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=GZSApnnd4OsD7pTzj2fW+/QRVPD31IpyHkvgdN+1kdE=; b=TxTjmoYj5s/7dXkzaJ3OUyUGesicazoCSZoFFgiBYYZs86eGcRRVNkjNmFp7t1tU1F RjHI2Fylgvcwp8VURlOd5TE9CMOGDAlT4ONQ+90mSWfu4TWD03sskzv6U/S2yKUpdCDH YofPfv4YEl796CKyQm68YNUwLQBHYih277RTbESkyBxBKCjxZHmq/06CHHWz7kQLMNcO kGlzF0jwqJ80CHlmHwbvCumnBboIU3WJSUzu5EtTmelabVp8pN86lqoxg5lEQzD7MaRV wghr139EYfIJw3y7cOvt5dKRdsBpg0lxZIoYnaNvAD1/GI6dfOCXMZHkiBSh/jSihCLG f7hw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GZSApnnd4OsD7pTzj2fW+/QRVPD31IpyHkvgdN+1kdE=; b=RpQISadlko0sJDQyPE0t9ODv7dAi7f9pBybcJi0Q9luVyVAE608xEbI7ggLS0Dcl2p UOEa6XkEYKlg43Rr8grUGiPG1t+6OMVneEYP08EakAQa5OXXAJgU4TSk1mJa2Sp8Dm4h kM5Mxluv0XOTG9nK9OYG91Uxp35kEcftJadP9c9ykrad5Afuf6SNUnfRg+t5jhloK8rH rwhSbpq20iWEj/enAEAsGWrpeL1eoAYZScXEaT+elymVhaS8MAuqbFw3wZ3Ks71eCTb9 ymFKWWVxBytemipK4LGqAIievRu25F9Ea7aLHHeNFEcbNSytvoOV2/eRAe+UwitbhqNG KAsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6z9tDXzF6QuZjl5h16raMBkIhSYxR9jM2Av2Kqi4RcPthmPlSl qk+RJh2v2qqzkTdowJnK/rX27ogK+wl7jtjnio8HJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMa5W83iUHzxXbVuYHbVM+rvBP19mqOoF9YYB1jPbQdVxMpN1z0IyFgS3rQqBQzmlgGuHhH/A0xfqUnLMwwhVY8= X-Received: by 10.28.46.67 with SMTP id u64mr2104204wmu.64.1512051209089; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:13:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:13:28 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GxLzKZq-2mLf73SBzZdHTsHL2TA Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: idr wg , "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11424216333691055f33db87" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:13:33 -0000 --001a11424216333691055f33db87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff, Both RFC3630 & RFC5305 define 4 octet administrative groups. I just checked and non of them is updated formally by RFC7308. My comment applies equally to RFC7308 and to your draft. It is really not my fault that RFC7308 went through as is. Defining only extension for longer then 4 octets admin groups for interfaces in an MPLS-TE domain is presenting myopic view on how those extensions are to be used in practice within SESSION_ATTRIBUTE object. If you say that your extension are to be used only by controller I rest my case. But as written today they can not just work in practice with base RSVP-TE specification. Best, R. PS. The comments about lack of bw reservation and qos was not related to yr draft. It was to provide bigger picture of the problem at hand. But you are welcome to disregard it :). On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Robert, > > > > The draft provides BGP-LS facility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 3630 and > 5305 (AG->EAG), aka link coloring, nothing to do with BW reservations or > packet prioritization. > > RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable solution, if I recall > correctly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was using TLV138 > while XR Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed is about 5 > years late=E2=80=A6 > > There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form of feature request= s > =E2=98=BA > > You might not believe it =E2=80=93 but there are still networks running R= SVP-TE at > a rather large scale. > > > > I agree =E2=80=93 a wider look is necessary, but BGP-LS might not be the = first > place to start. > > > > Hope this clarifies. > > > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > *From: *Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Date: *Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 01:46 > *To: *idr wg > *Cc: *"mpls@ietf.org" > *Subject: *[Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt > > > > /* While the draft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion i= s > really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */ > > > > Hi, > > > > I looked at draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt and would like to > share few comments on it. > > > > The draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal > extended admin groups of a links in the TE domain relaxing the current > limit of 32 bits. > > > > Observations: > > > > 1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If th= e > latter the title needs to be changed. > > > > 2. While it is usually considered good to have more then less of anything > let's look at the bigger picture and the consequences of this proposal in > respect to its current applicability of MPLS-TE: > > > > Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of the > full picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in > SESSION_ATTRIBUTE of RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7 > > > > Signalling more then 32 bits will just not fit the current space hence > fundamental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) operation are broken. > > > > Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modified to > accomodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits. > > > > IMO if there is real need to have more then 32 admin groups per link in a > TE domain the right process would be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFC= s > for it. > > > > Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while can steer packets via > constrained paths do not guarantee any interface level reservations or > packet prioritization. Those are control plane driven features. > > > > As such one could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity > classes there is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to > offer more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion > it is likely that packets assumed to be classified into one admin group > will likely compete for bandwith in the same queue with packets classifie= d > into different group. > > > > So while I do not have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have > bigger picture observations which I believe need to be addressed and need > to become formal references in this document before we proceed on it in I= DR > any further. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert. > > > > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a11424216333691055f33db87 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff,

Both RFC3630 & RFC5305 define 4 octet administrativ= e groups. I just checked and non of them is updated formally by RFC7308.=C2= =A0

My comment applies= equally to RFC7308 and to your draft. It is really not my fault that RFC73= 08 went through as is.=C2=A0

Defining only extension for longer then 4 octets admin groups for = interfaces in an MPLS-TE domain is presenting myopic view on how those exte= nsions are to be used in practice within SESSION_ATTRIBUTE object.=C2=A0

If you say that your ext= ension are to be used only by controller I rest my case. But as written tod= ay they can not just work in practice with base RSVP-TE specification.=C2= =A0

Best,
R.

PS. The= comments about lack of bw reservation and qos was not related to yr draft.= It was to provide bigger picture of the problem at hand. But you are welco= me to disregard it :).=C2=A0





On Thu, Nov 30,= 2017 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

The draft provides BGP-LS f= acility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 3630 and 5305 (AG->EAG), aka link = coloring, nothing to do with BW reservations or packet prioritization.

RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable solution, if I recall corre= ctly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was using TLV138 while X= R Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed is about 5 years lat= e=E2=80=A6

There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form of f= eature requests =E2=98=BA=

You might not believe it =E2=80=93 but there are still networks running = RSVP-TE at a rather large scale.

=C2=A0

I agree =E2=80=93 a wider= look is necessary, but BGP-LS might not be the first place to start.

= =C2=A0

Hope this clarifies.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jeff<= u>

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert= Raszuk <robert@r= aszuk.net>
Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 01:46
<= b>To: idr wg <idr@= ietf.org>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-= idr-eag-distribution-05.txt

=C2=A0

/* While the draft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG = here as the discussion is really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */=

<= /u>=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I looked at=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-ea= g-distribution-05.txt and would like to share few comments on it.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

The draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order= for the node to signal extended admin groups of a links in the TE domain r= elaxing the current limit of 32 bits.=C2=A0

<= div>

=C2=A0

Observ= ations:

=C2=A0

1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE= or also to SR networks ? If the latter the title needs to be changed.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

2. While it is usually considered good to have= more then less of anything let's look at the bigger picture and the co= nsequences of this proposal in respect to its current applicability of MPLS= -TE:=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the = link is just a tiny piece of the full picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bi= ts are signaled in SESSION_ATTRIBUTE of RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209= section 4.7

=C2=A0

Signalling more then 32 bits will jus= t not fit the current space hence fundamental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) = operation are broken.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= div>

Likewise most of the C= SPF implementations would also need to modified to accomodate for BGP signa= lled extened affinity bits.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= /div>

IMO if there is = real need to have more then 32 admin groups per link in a TE domain the rig= ht process would be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs for it.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while can steer = packets via constrained paths do not guarantee any interface level reservat= ions or packet prioritization. Those are control plane driven features.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

As such one could also notice that with the ex= tened set of link affinity classes there is real need to also extend QoS of= each network element to offer more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in = the event of congestion it is likely that packets assumed to be classified = into one admin group will likely compete for bandwith in the same queue wit= h packets classified into different group.

=C2=A0

So whil= e I do not have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigger pict= ure observations which I believe need to be addressed and need to become fo= rmal references in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any further= .

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Robert.

=C2= =A0

_______________________________________________ = Idr mailing list Idr@ietf= .org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=

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Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3594869680_978879495 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Robert, =20 Thanks for your comments, please see inline =20 Cheers, Jeff =20 From: on behalf of Robert Raszuk Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 06:13 To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: idr wg , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt =20 Jeff, =20 Both RFC3630 & RFC5305 define 4 octet administrative groups. I just checked= and non of them is updated formally by RFC7308.=20 [jeff] it doesn=E2=80=99t, it extends =20 My comment applies equally to RFC7308 and to your draft. It is really not m= y fault that RFC7308 went through as is.=20 [jeff] there should be 6-7 implementations of 7308 in the shipping products= . =20 Defining only extension for longer then 4 octets admin groups for interface= s in an MPLS-TE domain is presenting myopic view on how those extensions are= to be used in practice within SESSION_ATTRIBUTE object.=20 [jeff] you are mixing state distribution with LSP setup=E2=80=A6 color(bitmask) i= s a property of a link and on itself has nothing to do with RSVP-TE. The nam= e of 7308 reflects realities of the time it was written, however.. it is not= limited to. =20 If you say that your extension are to be used only by controller I rest my = case. But as written today they can not just work in practice with base RSVP= -TE specification.=20 [jeff] AG/EAG provide additional meta-data about the link in a graph and co= uld be used by any consumer of that data, being PCE/SDNc/any_cool_acronym_of= _the_day=20 =20 Best, R. =20 PS. The comments about lack of bw reservation and qos was not related to yr= draft. It was to provide bigger picture of the problem at hand. But you are= welcome to disregard it :).=20 [jeff] I really appreciate your comments and don=E2=80=99t mean to disregard them= , resolution of color semantics could be done in any way to express business= logic =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Tantsura w= rote: Robert, =20 The draft provides BGP-LS facility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 3630 and 5= 305 (AG->EAG), aka link coloring, nothing to do with BW reservations or pack= et prioritization. RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable solution, if I recall correc= tly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was using TLV138 while XR = Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed is about 5 years late=E2=80= =A6 There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form of feature requests = =E2=98=BA You might not believe it =E2=80=93 but there are still networks running RSVP-TE a= t a rather large scale. =20 I agree =E2=80=93 a wider look is necessary, but BGP-LS might not be the first pl= ace to start. =20 Hope this clarifies. =20 Thanks, Jeff From: Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 01:46 To: idr wg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt =20 /* While the draft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion is = really about MPLS-TE and not BGP */ =20 Hi, =20 I looked at draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt and would like to share = few comments on it.=20 =20 The draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal exten= ded admin groups of a links in the TE domain relaxing the current limit of 3= 2 bits.=20 =20 Observations: =20 1. Is the draft only applicable to MPLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If the = latter the title needs to be changed.=20 =20 2. While it is usually considered good to have more then less of anything l= et's look at the bigger picture and the consequences of this proposal in res= pect to its current applicability of MPLS-TE:=20 =20 Signalling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of the full= picture. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESSION_ATTRIBUTE o= f RSVP-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7 =20 Signalling more then 32 bits will just not fit the current space hence fund= amental set of RSVP-TE (aka MPLS-TE) operation are broken.=20 =20 Likewise most of the CSPF implementations would also need to modified to ac= comodate for BGP signalled extened affinity bits.=20 =20 IMO if there is real need to have more then 32 admin groups per link in a T= E domain the right process would be to extend IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs fo= r it.=20 =20 Moreover as we know RSVP-TE or SR-TE while can steer packets via constraine= d paths do not guarantee any interface level reservations or packet prioriti= zation. Those are control plane driven features.=20 =20 As such one could also notice that with the extened set of link affinity cl= asses there is real need to also extend QoS of each network element to offer= more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise in the event of congestion it is l= ikely that packets assumed to be classified into one admin group will likely= compete for bandwith in the same queue with packets classified into differe= nt group. =20 So while I do not have concerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigg= er picture observations which I believe need to be addressed and need to bec= ome formal references in this document before we proceed on it in IDR any fu= rther. =20 Cheers, Robert. =20 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.o= rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr=20 =20 --B_3594869680_978879495 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Rober= t,

 

= Thanks for your comments, please see inline

 

Cheers,=

Jeff

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>From: <= ;rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net><= br>Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 06:13
To: Jeff Tant= sura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org&g= t;, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [= Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt

=

 

=

Jeff,

 

Both RFC3630 & RFC5305 define 4 octet administrative= groups. I just checked and non of them is updated formally by RFC7308. = ;

[jeff] it doesn=E2=80=99t, it= extends

=  

My comment a= pplies equally to RFC7308 and to your draft. It is really not my fault that = RFC7308 went through as is. 

[jeff] there should be 6-7 implementations of 7308 in the shipping = products.

 

Defining on= ly extension for longer then 4 octets admin groups for interfaces in an MPLS= -TE domain is presenting myopic view on how those extensions are to be used = in practice within SESSION_ATTRIBUTE object. 

[jeff] you are mixing state distribution with LSP = setup=E2=80=A6 color(bitmask) is a property of a link and on itself has nothing to= do with RSVP-TE. The name of 7308 reflects realities of the time it was wri= tten, however.. it is not limited to.

 

If you say that your extension are to be used only by contr= oller I rest my case. But as written today they can not just work in practic= e with base RSVP-TE specification. 

[jeff] AG/EAG provide additional meta-data about the link in= a graph and could be used by any consumer of that data, being PCE/SDNc/any_= cool_acronym_of_the_day

 

Best,

R.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> 

PS. The comments about= lack of bw reservation and qos was not related to yr draft. It was to provi= de bigger picture of the problem at hand. But you are welcome to disregard i= t :). 

[jeff] I real= ly appreciate your comments and don=E2=80=99t mean to disregard them, resolution o= f color semantics could be done in any way to express business logic

 

 

=

 

<= div>

 

 

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Ta= ntsura <jefftant= .ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,

 

The draft provides BGP-LS facility for RFC7308 that extends RFCs 3630= and 5305 (AG->EAG), aka link coloring, nothing to do with BW reservation= s or packet prioritization.

RFC7308 was necessary to provide interoperable soluti= on, if I recall correctly, around 2013, in order to signal EAGs - Junos was = using TLV138 while XR Sub-TLV 252. Your comment about modifications needed i= s about 5 years late=E2=80=A6

There was a need for more than 32, that came in a form of= feature requests =E2=98=BA

You might not believe it =E2=80=93 but there are still networks running= RSVP-TE at a rather large scale.

 

= I agree =E2=80=93 a wider look is necessary, but BG= P-LS might not be the first place to start.

 

Hope this clarifies.

 <= /o:p>

Thanks,

Jeff

From: Idr <= idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thursday, November 30= , 2017 at 01:46
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] draft-i= etf-idr-eag-distribution-05.txt

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>/* While the dr= aft is in IDR I am adding MPLS WG here as the discussion is really about MPL= S-TE and not BGP */

 =

Hi,

 <= /span>

I looked at draft-ietf-idr-eag-di= stribution-05.txt and would like to share few comments on it. 

 

T= he draft defines extension to BGP-LS in order for the node to signal extende= d admin groups of a links in the TE domain relaxing the current limit of 32 = bits. 

 

Observations:

 = ;

1. Is the draft only applicable to M= PLS-TE or also to SR networks ? If the latter the title needs to be changed.=  

 

2. While it is usually considered good to have more then less = of anything let's look at the bigger picture and the consequences of this pr= oposal in respect to its current applicability of MPLS-TE: =

 

Sign= alling of 32 affinity bits of the link is just a tiny piece of the full pict= ure. In MPLS-TE networks those bits are signaled in SESSION_ATTRIBUTE of RSV= P-PATH msg as defined in RFC3209 section 4.7

 

Signalling more then 32 = bits will just not fit the current space hence fundamental set of RSVP-TE (a= ka MPLS-TE) operation are broken. 

 

Likewise most of the CSPF imp= lementations would also need to modified to accomodate for BGP signalled ext= ened affinity bits. 

 

IMO if there is real need to have more then= 32 admin groups per link in a TE domain the right process would be to exten= d IGP as well as RSVP-TE RFCs for it. 

=

 

Moreover as we know RSVP-= TE or SR-TE while can steer packets via constrained paths do not guarantee a= ny interface level reservations or packet prioritization. Those are control = plane driven features. 

 

As such one could also notice that with = the extened set of link affinity classes there is real need to also extend Q= oS of each network element to offer more then 32 diffserv classes. Otherwise= in the event of congestion it is likely that packets assumed to be classifi= ed into one admin group will likely compete for bandwith in the same queue w= ith packets classified into different group.

 

So while I do not have c= oncerns to define such TLV in BGP-LS I do have bigger picture observations w= hich I believe need to be addressed and need to become formal references in = this document before we proceed on it in IDR any further.<= /p>

 

Cheers,

Robert.

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;= margin-left:1.0in'> 

_______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/idr

 

<= /html> --B_3594869680_978879495--

Done ! I f= illed the report for you :).

5a is answering the question in 5 so I said Yes - Clearly if there= is no support no capability will be sent :) Confusing a bit ...=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@ex= a.net.uk> wrote:
Robert,

I do not have a login

1 Yes
2 Yes
3 Yes
4a Yes
4b Yes
5a You can send extended UPDATE . So No ?
5b Yes

Thomas

=
On 21 Nov 2017, at 15:25, Robert Raszuk <= robert@raszuk.net> wrote:


On Tue, Nov 21, 201= 7 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Your wish is my command: done !
https://github.com/Exa-Networks/ex= abgp/commit/80612f0cef940d8f8b03b16f543c9173615188c5


= Thomas

On 21 Nov 2= 017, at 15:03, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:


My take would be to m= ake it enabled by default (potentially with a knob to disable it if needed)= .. otherwise we are creating even worse swiss cheese even among those impl= ementations which do support it.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:56 PM,= Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hello Robert,

As this is a capabilit= y, it is an option to be enabled per neighbour.

I = thought it made sense to give the user control of this option: one may not = want to enable the feature - and therefore they should be able to do so IMH= O.
<= font color=3D"#888888">

= Thomas

On 21 = Nov 2017, at 14:22, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Great that you implemented it in Exa= BGP. Is it on by default or do you need a global/per peer knob ?=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

As to your point that even today you= may have the same problem ... well if you consider the problem to be inter= working between peers when one is already receiving 4K update and want to a= dd more stuff ... you are right it can fail today.=C2=A0

But this is not the main problem I am po= inting out. The problem is that in the above case the local guy who is addi= ng stuff to existing update will locally and immediately know that it faile= d.=C2=A0

In the new mo= del it is nodes far far away who happily injected larger then 4K update mes= sages will never know that their updates never made it through as they inte= nded.

And since IDR a= nd community failed to progress OPERATIONAL MSG in BGP providing a bit of a= ops feedback between peers and perhaps beyond we are where we are.=C2=A0https://goo.gl/JTpQDc=

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM, T= homas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa.net.uk> wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I supp= ort the draft; and I therefore implemented it on ExaBGP master.
<= br>
I am will keep an eye on the discussion regarding the potenti= al issue transiting messages with larger than 4k total attributes size coul= d cause.=C2=A0

I would have no objection myself on= seeing an arbitrary limit on the Total Path Attribute set to prevent backw= ard compatibility as the most likely quick win is going to be on packing mo= re NLRI ATM.

That said, I am not aware of any guid= eline in previous RFC to cover this issue and it is already possible to enc= ounter this problem today. So while the draft make the issue more likely, i= t does not make things worse from a specification POV.

=
I am therefore wondering if this should not be covered by another unre= lated RFC as it can affect current speakers and is not specific to this dra= ft.

Sincerely,

Thomas
=
=
On 12 Nov 20= 17, at 22:47, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me<= wbr>ssages (11/12 to 11/26).=C2=A0 Please note this draft has at least 2 im= plementations. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Please comment on whether you feel this dr= aft is ready for publication.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Susan Hares= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
PS =E2=80=93 the request for this WG LC is at:
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
________________________= _______________________
Idr = mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
<= /div>

_______________________________________= ________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



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