From nobody Mon Apr 3 05:40:05 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=Sutv+B9LSe7UY5smAcLBUv+/AaI=; b=c4KGIQYdNvWqXpzm q/UnViFkinYGw0nHw51mJBIt6tLVih/QPYhAZWYRE9cxU/ytl6b5Oxreg+H5mLk+ t+1RmsgErdBUqlu2cKW4HDdGdA2Ff6zxRxiGCx84rUiTdbj2ddecrSN3wpqNhXBl 8XUm23r3tuM7QGscqURid7PJhec= Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 05:40:00 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect CT: Add an example (#321) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e242a0f1a7a_69713ff3c9343c382147d6"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 12:40:04 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e242a0f1a7a_69713ff3c9343c382147d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would it be possible to include an example in the spec? Something like... Expect-CT: enforce; max-age=3600; report-uri="https://example.com/expect-ct-report" As I believe most developers like to work with examples, rather than just using the spec definition as found under the heading "Response Header Field Syntax". :-) -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/321 ----==_mimepart_58e242a0f1a7a_69713ff3c9343c382147d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Would it be possible to include an example in the spec?

Something like...

Expect-CT: enforce; max-age=3600; report-uri="https://example.com/expect-ct-report"

As I believe most developers like to work with examples, rather than just using the spec definition as found under the heading "Response Header Field Syntax".

:-)

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----==_mimepart_58e242a0f1a7a_69713ff3c9343c382147d6-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 07:42:30 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=R8ndkJ3iPlHN1jy8m3UPfGnJGXo=; b=YSpG2QcLW4z7hBDv Lv0vXzjoFz57ykFe7qXdZptuUF6Kq47z5DcgXsC167Lig3pCKUL4wVMuP346siXt VMfemJVHWvcLIfF78GYOPcpAqondyHdXxxaZWKKvlNySIdFsXX1inpbJNg4aVeGu vxiBm7vjrgZutob/HuoBaGYAEls= Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 07:42:24 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect CT: includeSubDomains (#322) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e25f505ac89_2dd63ff5508f3c2c31207d"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 14:42:29 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e25f505ac89_2dd63ff5508f3c2c31207d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Should the `Expect CT` header also have a `includeSubDomains` directive? In the same way that [Strict-Transport-Security](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Strict-Transport-Security) and [Public-Key-Pins](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Public-Key-Pins) has this feature. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/322 ----==_mimepart_58e25f505ac89_2dd63ff5508f3c2c31207d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Should the Expect CT header also have a includeSubDomains directive?

In the same way that Strict-Transport-Security and Public-Key-Pins has this feature.

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----==_mimepart_58e25f505ac89_2dd63ff5508f3c2c31207d-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 12:07:42 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 12:07:38 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1491246458; bh=RdNVEua/9NzsGpoC4OHXgvtmjZUZgi5/CyRRZ1zS69E=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=msQLYHex73+r9iqh6JtXjV/S8yyw9LpamrcdAbJ/JyIxhBI+vfP5EHIyZogQdb4oK c8zw/9q3/7/17QpesKcRX9ZQ4FObORNcoX25+wpVleONodVD0XXPWiSZS6OeQqVt48 NlIu9ZVF7RTKi9nGhSE0eaEqpcfXcHoj4n5whi9s= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e29d7a6c3db_f153fb916dd3c2c476e4"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:07:41 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e29d7a6c3db_f153fb916dd3c2c476e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This would require including it in `Vary` on cacheable responses -- something that is going to reduce cache efficiency and also likely to cause operator error. Is the added complexity/risk worth it? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-291242679 ----==_mimepart_58e29d7a6c3db_f153fb916dd3c2c476e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This would require including it in Vary on cacheable resp= onses -- something that is going to reduce cache efficiency and also like= ly to cause operator error.

Is the added complexity/risk worth it?

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= ----==_mimepart_58e29d7a6c3db_f153fb916dd3c2c476e4-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 12:59:07 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 12:59:03 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1491249543; bh=AiI6Foaj5FU8JL2BnxrTD2hCA3/D0Lom8bRTqd0qwgU=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=HVfyJJvPb+3OMVdVtD8mXmMYbMPm5LYix/AUZpTHbDUgPIg6hqVIFcOf4XkpuA0yO BVtjnjOtCheXjXNY+mB2iQTh/Ib8vP3bC+bxce7ogzcqp2Hf7lnbhWSdwYeZTxEFKC RjmxoctVHf+rnvSaxdQdf1eKZcJDnso3ZI2XXKco= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e2a9873b5a8_70773fcff90b7c381080e1"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:59:06 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e2a9873b5a8_70773fcff90b7c381080e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, I expect Expect-CT to be a somewhat niche feature, so we'd probably be adding wasted bytes to the vast majority of requests. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-291256047 ----==_mimepart_58e2a9873b5a8_70773fcff90b7c381080e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Also, I expect Expect-CT to be a somewhat niche feature, so we'd probably be adding wasted bytes to the vast majority of requests.

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----==_mimepart_58e2a9873b5a8_70773fcff90b7c381080e1-- From nobody Wed Apr 5 16:15:57 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.393 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.393 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.404, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=0AlUqb+Kx2Ht5qwJsIHdhZdM40c=; b=U4UqKq2F1rsU4Q5u HRY6fRC0TMmCkBScQgzjuvHtZ7QOz+5H2gNBq/7tf/e87SyJkgaUGC/saFTq8V5O i2HL2PwzlTP0f9i131yClvzZppNsvq1yokWuEvoS6Tyyu+eA1jC2ZgZvj+gwYru2 detHXz6Axr3RPKb/x8LgCP3+Rs0= Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 16:15:28 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e57a907dcef_6a2f3fba57cc7c381798d8"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 23:15:56 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e57a907dcef_6a2f3fba57cc7c381798d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i imagine HPACK would compress that out. Without this, is there a way we can deprecate this header from ever being sent by a server? User agent hints? @mnot do we really need to add it on Vary? Clients who get responses with this header and don't support Expect-CT will just ignore it. Clients who get this but have not sent Expect-CT will ignore it. Clients who have deprecated Expect-CT will behave like clients who don't support Expect-CT. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-292024023 ----==_mimepart_58e57a907dcef_6a2f3fba57cc7c381798d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i imagine HPACK would compress that out. Without this, is there a way we= can deprecate this header from ever being sent by a server? User agent hin= ts?

@mnot do = we really need to add it on Vary? Clients who get responses with this heade= r and don't support Expect-CT will just ignore it. Clients who get this bu= t have not sent Expect-CT will ignore it. Clients who have deprecated Expec= t-CT will behave like clients who don't support Expect-CT.

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= ----==_mimepart_58e57a907dcef_6a2f3fba57cc7c381798d8-- From nobody Thu Apr 6 21:57:05 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 21:56:59 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1491541019; bh=qcAtlifKmMnXkrYj+HdtRPYjN0WhPKt3Qu6C6ALqmQA=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=1nurILdL8+rZwWsBlbjyAjx5NxdXItnEdP7Ro+SrF4FufogwQbxtY7j4u9m5omPlA dMhXvhfLbvvKxp7MatI/+tOMPkEey3l4QXWpZ05akcLbm/+lLeLD4Xp1PpitRLIGqS JlucQ7Abu+rgF2pixqbI9TO4DLaVreLxKCSG0Za4= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58e71c1bc6d52_3c1c3f94bd6ebc341848e1"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 04:57:04 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58e71c1bc6d52_3c1c3f94bd6ebc341848e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HPACK does not give infinite efficiency; we're already hearing about the dynamic table thrashing for some sites. If you don't put it in Vary, then an intermediary cache will store the version without the `Expect-CT` hint and serve it to clients that could have used one. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-292438597 ----==_mimepart_58e71c1bc6d52_3c1c3f94bd6ebc341848e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HPACK does not give infinite efficiency; we're already hearing about t= he dynamic table thrashing for some sites.

If you don't put it in Vary, then an intermediary cache will store the= version without the Expect-CT hint and serve it to clients = that could have used one.

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= ----==_mimepart_58e71c1bc6d52_3c1c3f94bd6ebc341848e1-- From nobody Mon Apr 10 02:55:07 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.783 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.783 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 02:55:04 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1491818104; bh=WE3OnIoneeoXGkomeyzMWOFVq+j81DEwvVUgeQ7UsPQ=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=MORwLYPEr0FnaRcA+QPBGGpZBhupRJo8+yN3wdheSMmACWyCG+QCTF3cIVpLqGcCY anWnGACHNr4/GuFkdm/MrbR1w8w2G8XrTcgsp3GfkawjBWqxwukt9/dhMCnMWf/OwW nWYpRBst0jhf52ZWHUy2zZob/A4llY4bFK3c1Fag= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Scoping of Accept-CH (#307) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58eb567822c2a_29de3fee75a6fc2c7802f"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 09:55:06 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58eb567822c2a_29de3fee75a6fc2c7802f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Doesn't "the cookie monster" have to be consulted anyway for every request? If only to work out what to put in the Cookie header? Not from inside the rendering engine, which is where CH headers are added. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/307#issuecomment-292903287 ----==_mimepart_58eb567822c2a_29de3fee75a6fc2c7802f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Doesn't "the cookie monster" have to be consulted anyway for every req= uest? If only to work out what to put in the Cookie header?

Not from inside the rendering engine, which is where CH headers are ad= ded.

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----==_mimepart_58ec2bc2edafd_24e03fc8f9cddc30114876-- From nobody Mon Apr 10 18:06:25 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=y6sdFPYGrr71+d4tpbVea7Rpc98=; b=tvFYEGZIEOGsBcVc jUAZqaF5ULCECvgJAIPY7DwDdaxcpiKzTMb9Bm6/NuBums7+vHuHZ3vqwdPU3sak IC2a3AvNuzgqhdtqbyte7/yzKwUcMrlqxePWRg9EAPE7YPEXgYA48S1VoC1hW8rd z2uEAJpDrI3u3SRUZGwZ+O5QS1U= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 18:06:20 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] frame type 0xb polluted by BLOCKED use 0xc for ORIGIN (#324) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58ec2c0c1bf2f_4ad03fa2cb6cbc3836368"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 01:06:24 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58ec2c0c1bf2f_4ad03fa2cb6cbc3836368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pull #323 -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/324 ----==_mimepart_58ec2c0c1bf2f_4ad03fa2cb6cbc3836368 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

pull #323

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----==_mimepart_58ec2c0c1bf2f_4ad03fa2cb6cbc3836368-- From nobody Mon Apr 10 21:09:46 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:09:42 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1491883782; bh=AfswTvW0omWdjmcXH6kU4opuj09+1jEFUfrrA8tXDAs=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=qIIM4fO9nUF4iAXr2Sk93ywaL2tOqwMVTMuE5l/y9c6hymwIxoK1Sp0JC3SMLEA5n XwR14/qcGFQLDvbVPmWBA36BkXkhaSc6UTKarKHhf+ajOpBHVsIv5RnI1lSJx4YvJU Ghr3N0srH8DLeWa/t/lHGvo/Mo+r9T7vM5cNq71Y= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] change frame type of origin to 0xc to avoid conflict (#323) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58ec57063cbe9_79353f9cefc6dc2c1667e5"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 04:09:44 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58ec57063cbe9_79353f9cefc6dc2c1667e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Merged #323. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/323#event-1037600569 ----==_mimepart_58ec57063cbe9_79353f9cefc6dc2c1667e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Merged #323.

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----==_mimepart_58ec57063cbe9_79353f9cefc6dc2c1667e5-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 17:21:37 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=8slMr3Uthu5yeQ5es3ACMpxJuLM=; b=Y1DfIiqUAhB4nfI1 nVTBMFveRxAYuITptORuqp9jK16mZcdXv6nOibgpiAE78T6U+9fmR1GnpRUtsLhf Hk+yhzRtNXSht5Sd6P+C5M9x3bSNXDpwyAoB0ovW4kSTvKt4ZehSAMtyk1nr11Ym wrXzpKmDq3r3F1B6hl3+S5yF0JI= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:21:33 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58eec48d2339a_10ed3f8a3e0e1c3c715cf"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 00:21:36 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58eec48d2339a_10ed3f8a3e0e1c3c715cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering out loud -- should immutable have any consideration of whether the response is incomplete, or potentially incomplete (i.e., close-delimited, rather than byte-counted or chunked or h2)? One of the reasons people hit 'reload' is when something on the page seems corrupted. @mcmanus any thoughts? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325 ----==_mimepart_58eec48d2339a_10ed3f8a3e0e1c3c715cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just wondering out loud -- should immutable have any consideration of whether the response is incomplete, or potentially incomplete (i.e., close-delimited, rather than byte-counted or chunked or h2)?

One of the reasons people hit 'reload' is when something on the page seems corrupted.

@mcmanus any thoughts?

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----==_mimepart_58eec48d2339a_10ed3f8a3e0e1c3c715cf-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 19:28:16 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:28:12 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492050492; bh=fS4kNWnJ7Tag+4JH3rbGYmfcPXN6CALAX3QzQw6DAC8=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=CkexsW108LBDNkGC80s67cifQCQdlLu88Frp3ftpEFsbNqV3xHzdQAKRAinLjFpkg r+FZUYjkNQbomfeEWtgxnfCeuC/dSY3hIMdftwwVhz/AEYHlLtGvr7VHanwpBekHxt TMFWXT9d25nS7t9VAa0+WuRCck7iRv+NzJBK8hxQ= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58eee23c1b579_79e33ff990c85c3498871"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:28:14 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58eee23c1b579_79e33ff990c85c3498871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so firefox calls this "strongly vs weakly framed". Hitting reload, which normally does conditional revals, doesn't really help with weakly framed things because you just revalidate the etag or LM in the header.. and in the case of truncation (the common fail mode) the header is not what's wrong. so if you're weakly framed we don't do conditional revals at all - we just load unconditionally (the same as if you did a hard reload) because its not really trustworthy. none of this is really an immutable specific issue though. immutable never bypasses 'hard reloads' and that's the only thing that's going to work here.. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325#issuecomment-293759587 ----==_mimepart_58eee23c1b579_79e33ff990c85c3498871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

so firefox calls this "strongly vs weakly framed".

Hitting reload, which normally does conditional revals, doesn't really= help with weakly framed things because you just revalidate the etag or L= M in the header.. and in the case of truncation (the common fail mode) th= e header is not what's wrong.

so if you're weakly framed we don't do conditional revals at all - we = just load unconditionally (the same as if you did a hard reload) because = its not really trustworthy.

none of this is really an immutable specific issue though. immutable n= ever bypasses 'hard reloads' and that's the only thing that's going to wo= rk here..

&m= dash;
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= ----==_mimepart_58eee23c1b579_79e33ff990c85c3498871-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 21:05:17 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:05:14 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492056314; bh=c2T9zLHw+MNm1JcQaXvyxt1opZcj4rQWBfRmz3sc6R8=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=Y/tBkbLNDDhVJX/c8wypZIMwOQp/gkqGeMTqJ5oVI3/HKAVaWaO22x+FzXOSsuOuP MIQHt1pGOpkhZUUUpH7kECXMjjn3tLmzIgFOeoZyZILcutshJaAsvRWzvhSHzMItk4 TWu42OWfxnYoHY2aNFoNJ5sSdXDZvJJVrUkrKPgc= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58eef8fa5d8d7_4dcc3ff4a7805c38303389"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 04:05:16 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58eef8fa5d8d7_4dcc3ff4a7805c38303389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if weakly framed content should be unconditionally be requested on a "normal" load, even despite the presence of immutable. See also https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/524 -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325#issuecomment-293774197 ----==_mimepart_58eef8fa5d8d7_4dcc3ff4a7805c38303389 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was wondering if weakly framed content should be unconditionally be requested on a "normal" load, even despite the presence of immutable.

See also whatwg/fetch#524

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----==_mimepart_58eef8fa5d8d7_4dcc3ff4a7805c38303389-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 04:58:29 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=RLLAty4oPE1tUyuIZRJmjolGdoA=; b=pbXjjZzyw2H0mTe2 yTQO2X/+Z+zeZqVdU00YXYoz/Uz+vGqf8MGzUr/Z84N7aGS47ozFw/40ZhzK4yVJ q2PIp0mtTJ8Vn5/Y2VPyOO+T0iC6zoLBPjuMOPJF+Y2e4qsUsJdlRHlqFNfUT4yy bffLIrnet5Tba3e8POXTeJJfBxM= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 04:58:19 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58ef67db92284_f233feb1794dc3812312d"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:58:28 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58ef67db92284_f233feb1794dc3812312d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you mean in normal reloads not normal loads, right? (the latter would just mean no-store I think.) and yes, that's what I believe we do.. and it isn't related to the presence of immutable. (Though I admit I think I put it in at the same time as working on immutable because these questions came up.) -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325#issuecomment-293871545 ----==_mimepart_58ef67db92284_f233feb1794dc3812312d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

you mean in normal reloads not normal loads, right? (the latter would ju= st mean no-store I think.)

and yes, that's what I believe we do.. and it isn't related to the prese= nce of immutable. (Though I admit I think I put it in at the same time as w= orking on immutable because these questions came up.)

&mda= sh;
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= ----==_mimepart_58ef67db92284_f233feb1794dc3812312d-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 05:02:59 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=cVXxmhH/ouPSxT9WGAv3I/+TuBo=; b=aYa5NFuVXWjUtYF0 hySdiluDcaHqoww4KLx2cUO/9C7EtYICIFMVJ6s27DL+wqHBxkmVlZ3KzdYgYnvu cG570xVtX/GOxFUBTupGBaHCh3VqSbC9PAq+KURptFM10BDqUl7O+BslmAzFWa4t dEiMppOprHfX7WFVE44SuAt9nHY= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 05:02:47 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58ef68e7c1c0f_ec63feb1794dc381291ed"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:02:58 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58ef68e7c1c0f_ec63feb1794dc381291ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a large component of weakly framed responses are actually buggy responses that we tolerate due to server errors.. e.g. chunked without a 0 chunk or stuff that is short of its content-length -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325#issuecomment-293873191 ----==_mimepart_58ef68e7c1c0f_ec63feb1794dc381291ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

a large component of weakly framed responses are actually buggy responses that we tolerate due to server errors.. e.g. chunked without a 0 chunk or stuff that is short of its content-length

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----==_mimepart_58ef68e7c1c0f_ec63feb1794dc381291ed-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 11:55:38 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=SPcKcM7bB4hsaLw6XARPqqz42Kg=; b=Zgip+QbcZbXoaLrH 8uXSzN5C2xIXQ2tVErlTrjErarvv+SxItRk2MzetxFCnF1alH56FAGNks8p2Jb+k +l3oqus94fLmCS0Ue6NaLMfS+8TAd+DUJK7xKkZDNphvNZhkQVExIBw2NvDsMUsV luQ2SA0/6UYxx/nuc40BOVka4Gc= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:55:33 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Definition of Expect-CT is a little unclear (#318) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f11b259afad_3a483fe0bc22fc2c297bc"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:55:37 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f11b259afad_3a483fe0bc22fc2c297bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for my delay here. If I'm understanding correctly, then @royfielding's first suggestion is the intention: it's supposed to be a list of directives, some of which may be name=value: ``` Expect-CT = #directive directive = directive-name [ "=" directive-value ] directive-name = token directive-value = token / quoted-string ``` However this changes the format from semicolon-separated directives (`Expect-CT: enforce; max-age=23`) to comma-separated (`Expect-CT: enforce, max-age=23`); is that correct? If so it's a little unfortunate that it'll differ from HPKP/HSTS syntax, which is semicolon-separated directives, but I suppose that's okay. @jcjones how do you feel about that from a Firefox implementation perspective? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/318#issuecomment-294214121 ----==_mimepart_58f11b259afad_3a483fe0bc22fc2c297bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry for my delay here.

If I'm understanding correctly, then @royfielding's first suggestion is the i= ntention: it's supposed to be a list of directives, some of which may be na= me=3Dvalue:

   Expect-CT       =3D #directive
   directive       =3D directive-name [ "=3D" directive-value ]
   directive-name  =3D token
   directive-value =3D token / quoted-string

However this changes the format from semicolon-separated directives (Expect-CT: enforce; max-age=3D23) to comma-separated (Expec= t-CT: enforce, max-age=3D23); is that correct?

If so it's a little unfortunate that it'll differ from HPKP/HSTS syntax,= which is semicolon-separated directives, but I suppose that's okay. @jcjones how do= you feel about that from a Firefox implementation perspective?

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= ----==_mimepart_58f11b259afad_3a483fe0bc22fc2c297bc-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 13:10:09 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=GPpBzlkcN+lsi8FiaF2wfkyCAoc=; b=vJW2xUtwgE4xzsZ3 b0BFKPT9EqsYn7CATuZXth8bsaIHauipsorvFPCHjQGOdV8M3s6Z/FtWG2VKTbo/ 46D44pgnnKOmeMB/08AV3h+VUvXiTvYWZrslCYgkgbORNQEtxfCFCQUsxGVhwMWo HR1ci1H2idZLk4cCYIuhMYaMJJ4= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 13:10:05 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Definition of Expect-CT is a little unclear (#318) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f12c9dbce56_4cac3f88444c9c38900c4"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:10:08 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f12c9dbce56_4cac3f88444c9c38900c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @estark37: Implementation-wise, it's not much work to accept a comma-delimited list instead of semicolons. However, since this is so similar to CSP/HPKP/HSTS, I'd _prefer_ it to have a similar structure of semicolon delineation, particularly since the reporting mechanism looks so much like CSP. It feels like it'd be weird to see the different delimiters side-by-side: ``` add_header Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000; includeSubDomains; preload"; add_header Content-Security-Policy "default-src 'self'; script-src 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline' 'self' ... ; img-src data: 'self'; ... "; add_header Expect-CT "enforce, max-age=1"; ``` -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/318#issuecomment-294227002 ----==_mimepart_58f12c9dbce56_4cac3f88444c9c38900c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

@estark37= : Implementation-wise, it's not much work to accept a comma-delimited l= ist instead of semicolons. However, since this is so similar to CSP/HPKP/HS= TS, I'd prefer it to have a similar structure of semicolon delinea= tion, particularly since the reporting mechanism looks so much like CSP. It= feels like it'd be weird to see the different delimiters side-by-side:

    add_header	           Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=3D3=
1536000; includeSubDomains; preload";
    add_header             Content-Security-Policy "default-src 'self'; scr=
ipt-src 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline' 'self' ... ; img-src data: 'self'; ..=
. ";
    add_header             Expect-CT "enforce, max-age=3D1";

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= ----==_mimepart_58f12c9dbce56_4cac3f88444c9c38900c4-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 13:15:16 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 13:15:12 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492200912; bh=hybATQnAKmBJ5HTPASoTRUxa9TBV1Z2FDfkMIHQDcjY=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=ZUGCpaBQ+OOgGT64YN5Hw+WDvm+r9iU7B7m6wtA+3NPRq293YYBVUwFxsRKZcF8gV R1bLgnC7BoXsl24MUA4gxWOlqltqZ5CEnJ+e7NELSkAFSxVr6kxtJetFLqC9H3e0IS HPPYe5tWpCbxTkJwJlJFV8JVyFFOSEu34mIUC/Qs= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect CT: includeSubDomains (#322) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f12dd0d539f_53433fdb11ef3c342348d2"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:15:15 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f12dd0d539f_53433fdb11ef3c342348d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've intentionally omitted `includeSubdomains` in Expect-CT. Though I acknowledge that it would be useful to site owners, I don't think we should add it because it considerably increases the size of the footgun, by offering the ability to require CT for subdomains that have never even demonstrated to the UA their CT compliance. (I also suspect that most site owners would primarily use it as a tool to learn about all their subdomains, which is a use that is somewhat orthogonal to Expect-CT's actual purpose.) -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/322#issuecomment-294228168 ----==_mimepart_58f12dd0d539f_53433fdb11ef3c342348d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've intentionally omitted includeSubdomains in Expect-CT= . Though I acknowledge that it would be useful to site owners, I don't th= ink we should add it because it considerably increases the size of the fo= otgun, by offering the ability to require CT for subdomains that have nev= er even demonstrated to the UA their CT compliance.

(I also suspect that most site owners would primarily use it as a tool= to learn about all their subdomains, which is a use that is somewhat ort= hogonal to Expect-CT's actual purpose.)

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----==_mimepart_58f1443dd505_4bba3fadb9df5c2c9167f-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 14:51:31 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.254 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.254 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=QsLWZbszAAi8fmqmL/m81RaWBH8=; b=sUZo/r8/j3/XIscf 18HQPDoUB++3S+Ulb+XuSM4B55fFzsQhEBI1FN4hH0foOBuboAbWBOHtA2sJaxTQ S9ZangCzG7ae3Xu0+VA1Tk+RC/lj/5/Uwsnzl/PB93Ja8942exKkZvGEM5KeXp+f ShHWoWqee6Apk/vTo76jljvUZXg= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:50:53 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect CT: includeSubDomains (#322) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f1443d145b8_32b23fd03dae7c3c9818c"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:51:29 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f1443d145b8_32b23fd03dae7c3c9818c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's a reasonable approach, if anyone else needs this they could re-open this issue. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/322#issuecomment-294243494 ----==_mimepart_58f1443d145b8_32b23fd03dae7c3c9818c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That's a reasonable approach, if anyone else needs this they could re-open this issue.

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----==_mimepart_58f1443d145b8_32b23fd03dae7c3c9818c-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 17:29:48 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=/5XVej0IWBGHLrdsUtdO2hRFiSg=; b=OCyRtQ5bMG/TA8ds gOwTgytJDB8/oxwwBX2dGzgVkTGJJqNDz6+A7jcfOGC2Dtey/8CJ+zMz7WmsUvsP tbGPM0OmfCKNMXOXhXGINEoehvynaaScfBRJcRwde0btv9+sQ5/DTPgbYc8VVb41 cvb0uOUb4wpWXwMWsaFKqIIclAc= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:29:43 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f169776850d_61c93fc144e59c381476c7"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 00:29:46 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f169776850d_61c93fc144e59c381476c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @siyengar I think that servers could probably just look at User-Agents to determine when the header is no longer applicable for most of the clients contacting them. (I imagine they'll probably end up wanting to keep an eye on the CT policies for the UAs they care about anyway, because the server might not get any value out of Expect-CT even if the UA still supports it. For example, one could imagine a UA that fully requires CT for all certs, but still supports Expect-CT for reporting purposes, in which case a server that is not using reporting would want to not send Expect-CT even though the UA still advertises support for it.) -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294260505 ----==_mimepart_58f169776850d_61c93fc144e59c381476c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

@siyengar= I think that servers could probably just look at User-Agents to determ= ine when the header is no longer applicable for most of the clients contact= ing them. (I imagine they'll probably end up wanting to keep an eye on the = CT policies for the UAs they care about anyway, because the server might no= t get any value out of Expect-CT even if the UA still supports it. For exam= ple, one could imagine a UA that fully requires CT for all certs, but still= supports Expect-CT for reporting purposes, in which case a server that is = not using reporting would want to not send Expect-CT even though the UA sti= ll advertises support for it.)

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= ----==_mimepart_58f169776850d_61c93fc144e59c381476c7-- From nobody Sun Apr 16 12:23:01 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:22:57 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492370577; bh=RoyK18b2pvENHY+oiu5jJg3sKwfVnlxk6MPivNzCQPw=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=OSdnQMVeMz7/CSZyrPcy5uo+YeWHKTKRLYeeU7BvAZ5aieJuqU3z9HhwZj7WmIwLb eDd5NlBSsEI9YQg5NE/Q/l3qcMVpByeyDf3penkm3A5uQ0S4vKlzdLXpVEzzU/yC7H rgb/t65Pf1X1TiB0B3Rj+XRhG4Cm80pcipjkGExI= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Definition of Expect-CT is a little unclear (#318) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f3c491872d_51b53fc5fac41c3859516"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:23:00 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f3c491872d_51b53fc5fac41c3859516 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, comma-separated lists is the normal form in HTTP (inherited from the Internet message syntax of email and netnews) because it allows multiple header fields to be appended without changing the semantics of the field. In other words, ``` Expect-CT: enforce, max-age=23 ``` is defined by HTTP to be equivalent to ``` Expect-CT: enforce Expect-CT: max-age=23 ``` which allows various implementation layers/filters to add to a message without rewriting the entire header block. If the comma-separated list syntax is not used, then implementations are forbidden from sending the directives in more than one field and recipients must fail-with-error if more than one field is received. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/318#issuecomment-294369176 ----==_mimepart_58f3c491872d_51b53fc5fac41c3859516 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, comma-separated lists is the normal form in HTTP (inherited from = the Internet message syntax of email and netnews) because it allows multi= ple header fields to be appended without changing the semantics of the fi= eld. In other words,

Expect-CT: enforce, max-age=3D23

is defined by HTTP to be equivalent to

Expect-CT: enforce
Expect-CT: max-age=3D23

which allows various implementation layers/filters to add to a message= without rewriting the entire header block.

If the comma-separated list syntax is not used, then implementations a= re forbidden from sending the directives in more than one field and recip= ients must fail-with-error if more than one field is received.

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= ----==_mimepart_58f3c491872d_51b53fc5fac41c3859516-- From nobody Sun Apr 16 21:02:12 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 21:02:09 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492401729; bh=PrSAlzOwxd1lUYTECVe7yO4SYT5wABcAytBGSK7wu/w=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=o2zITkdcKCJa2XO32k9mLa1m7gmoAlLdOIGE15dNVYc52P/wBrV5Uwo4m0SUlNwdu dSbywVpZGcdj3Kuu1lGt4Mya/6UQWff/kt36hRghf4MeZwaD1fijoKgPuP3G0gm+u8 7uA190XJNlqQRhhXTsZ2lDxBLCbDZ0aKkfSFivcY= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f43e4122fa2_1ba43fc7971cbc381121f5"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 04:02:11 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f43e4122fa2_1ba43fc7971cbc381121f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @mnot @estark37 the same problem would occur if the server decides not to send Expect-CT based on UA. Either you send the header to everyone, or if you don't send it to everyone, you have to include a Vary: User-Agent instead of a Vary: Expect-CT. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294400966 ----==_mimepart_58f43e4122fa2_1ba43fc7971cbc381121f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

@mnot <= a href=3D"https://github.com/estark37" class=3D"user-mention">@estark37 the same problem would occur if the server decides not to send Expect-= CT based on UA. Either you send the header to everyone, or if you don't s= end it to everyone, you have to include a Vary: User-Agent instead of a V= ary: Expect-CT.

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= ----==_mimepart_58f43e4122fa2_1ba43fc7971cbc381121f5-- From nobody Sun Apr 16 21:21:55 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 21:21:52 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492402912; bh=s/ac1yaOvuVlq6pwftVksYTtsYEbvKY1rbn9iepWG9o=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=TjhTsd/Cv1uj8TEDZlcQKHdk/aMuZBas1tN1ewh0eoGk72X966jnx9FdAmTJt1ioI L0/wL1uCe0V82UWuqgU81XG3o9AHpcZs++bJ+m82GwhL4HWEFwcHnkVXJMEMjTxML5 U2Or+rqmbbZsM/iXY9VsY1ekkeraTVJoR8Bac4tA= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f442e01ff0b_50d3fc7971cbc3867643"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 04:21:55 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f442e01ff0b_50d3fc7971cbc3867643 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @siyengar I just meant that if a server knows (from looking at UA) that 99.9% of its clients are Browsers X, Y, and Z, then it can stop sending Expect-CT when Browsers X, Y, and Z no longer support Expect-CT. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294402406 ----==_mimepart_58f442e01ff0b_50d3fc7971cbc3867643 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

@siyeng= ar I just meant that if a server knows (from looking at UA) that 99.9= % of its clients are Browsers X, Y, and Z, then it can stop sending Expec= t-CT when Browsers X, Y, and Z no longer support Expect-CT.

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= ----==_mimepart_58f442e01ff0b_50d3fc7971cbc3867643-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 01:59:24 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=s66MT0RmgzFxqGSKUXLTQH4nwEQ=; b=wQukf7ARebHovDvf R6cpzjm8/6Nk25vQCphFn7uNRG9X2QxVonuPQ9r+S9ffYWD6I+lGp/hZfAvmnkv+ JFVVF5deUHoBO578u81LBVdWKBNYCqiORv2xatrdPnqsnSEmj0ZuiAooAXW9e6O3 qmGu9aLGtyDlRN3M9mvWC0bOMso= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 01:59:18 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f483e65d2cf_7c723fd6e6c7bc38930af"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 08:59:22 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f483e65d2cf_7c723fd6e6c7bc38930af Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @estark37 - in that case, it would need to include "User-Agent" in the "Vary" field value.... -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294435651 ----==_mimepart_58f483e65d2cf_7c723fd6e6c7bc38930af Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

@estark37 - in that case, it would need to include "User-Agent" in the "Vary" field value....

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----==_mimepart_58f483e65d2cf_7c723fd6e6c7bc38930af-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 04:12:15 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=ZWDmzmltONsGbMdFI3IZagqB5mY=; b=BLlERDMgT4lmxyt4 hJbB+6fHjuqi4ifapp1gfNfUV/9DP0MBqt35xVxjabQ9ylJIYTMkMkspDjQK+yYI /hPoeb+v3ZUkXRBJB3PdJRafsTqUhzmMmFo3IQU89xyh3oMUmGcB/ZCOvedwJ4Av m2d9awPf0vXcZJdOfeLm9noajVw= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 04:11:47 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f4a2f316880_55573f8dc7333c3851091"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:12:15 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f4a2f316880_55573f8dc7333c3851091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as Emily says, this is a niche server feature. The global number of bytes spent advertising to sites unaware of CT is going to be way more than the number of bytes sent bearing the response header. It can be deprecated just as easily by watching market share counters as anything else. I would close the issue wontfix personally. as a total aside - the hpack pressure is normally on the server table not the client one, right? On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > @estark37 - in that case, it would need to > include "User-Agent" in the "Vary" field value.... > > =E2=80=94 > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > , > or mute the thread > > . > --=20 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294456283= ----==_mimepart_58f4a2f316880_55573f8dc7333c3851091 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as Emily says, this is a niche server feature. The global number of bytes spent advertising to sites unaware of CT is going to be way more than the number of bytes sent bearing the response header. It can be deprecated just=
as easily by watching market share counters as anything else. I would close=
the issue wontfix personally.

as a total aside - the hpack pressure is normally on the server table not the client one, right?

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Julian Reschke <notifications@github.co= m>
wrote:

> @estark37 <https://github.com/estark37> - in that case, it would= need to
> include "User-Agent" in the "Vary" field value....=
>
> =E2=80=94
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> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAP5sxJDxivobMDE= Hp4bulsjDszXx9Erks5rwynlgaJpZM4MvwJh>
> .
>

&mda= sh;
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<= br />Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or <= a href=3D"https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AORpyJzp8NPKTLx= N9r3vfQsMkarhxf9xks5rw0jzgaJpZM4MvwJh">mute the thread.

= ----==_mimepart_58f4a2f316880_55573f8dc7333c3851091-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 18:38:14 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=BmOezeyRvTWoGxjIQ6TnjGq96CA=; b=sUvKyq3ayP6gXsTD /8XUFu/rlCWsjJ+oXJ2PEzYuFGPywsnjoEE3fyxyHAECp8lLjXfiIbQmLR8lacwq 6BpHa/h9LinAmiWxqPjZm31jN/NhV9IowO8nMzcQIm1yBZu4AnxyJho16CTpuPZp pBZTZ+cxuN9KIQt9itAf2Z5JjUM= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:38:10 -0700 To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f56e0266ea4_5eea3fd921879c3896010"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:38:13 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f56e0266ea4_5eea3fd921879c3896010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @mcmanus that's fair. We can always set Vary: User-Agent if we want to set it for some UAs but not others. It's clunky, but doable. @estark37 I think I'm fine with this rationale and we can close this out. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294647000 ----==_mimepart_58f56e0266ea4_5eea3fd921879c3896010 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

@mcmanus that's fair. We can always set Vary: User-Agent if we want to set it for= some UAs but not others. It's clunky, but doable.
@estark37 I think I'm fine with this rationale and we can close this out.

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= ----==_mimepart_58f56e0266ea4_5eea3fd921879c3896010-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 18:45:52 2017 Delivered-To: http-issues@ietfa.amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:45:38 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1492479938; bh=DEyHm8nu/03qDRxLY8Zs4+LxJzhc8vLF4j9zjQZKhVA=; h=From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=OQewWIk7Ag3jxpbJbgDcBZIy7XhnTqQCtsp5CqhyangdnKdVvlpSh4Kpv9241AQdM DlDkyuhw46VtcjXw+upQxIkBeGAiJ7rfVJahqLb5DxFAgQS2KBBNOpEKeZC+j4QzY7 ZHFiujTg0n/MGijmGUWUZsz+p4iVhM8lwMB3F3Zg= To: httpwg/http-extensions Cc: Subscribed In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Request header for Expect-CT (#317) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_58f56fc21866b_7fdb3fbc432cfc38550e7"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Archived-At: Message-ID: From: HTTP issue updates Reply-To: http-issues@ietf.org X-BeenThere: http-issues@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: HTTP issue updates List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:45:51 -0000 ----==_mimepart_58f56fc21866b_7fdb3fbc432cfc38550e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally - I agree with @estark37 and @mcmanus. There's no need to advertise it in `Vary` if the server makes a decision about turning it on/off for **all** requests. That approach is more suitable to this situation IMO. WRT hpack pressure -- numbers are always interesting, of course, but I'm hearing a lot of people on both sides making proposals with the assumption that hpack will take care of their efficiency problems. That's true, but only to a certain point... -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/317#issuecomment-294648356 ----==_mimepart_58f56fc21866b_7fdb3fbc432cfc38550e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Personally - I agree with @estark37 and @mcmanus. There's no need to advertise it i= n Vary if the server makes a decision about turning it on/of= f for all requests. That approach is more suitable to th= is situation IMO.

WRT hpack pressure -- numbers are always interesting, of course, but I= 'm hearing a lot of people on both sides making proposals with the assump= tion that hpack will take care of their efficiency problems. That's true,= but only to a certain point...

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