X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 10:02:24 -0000 --f46d04426e3843c12005105f6ead Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Some of us have been recently discussing about the notion of Internet in a box during the Dagstuhl seminar (the report will be online soon) -- Vodafone has come out with a similar idea: School in a box! http://www.itnewsafrica.com/2015/03/vodafone-reveals-instant-classrooms-for-refugees-in-africa/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+itnewsafrica+%28ITNewsAfrica.com%29 Regards -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --f46d04426e3843c12005105f6ead Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Some of us have been recently discussing about the notion = of Internet in a box during the Dagstuhl seminar (the report will be online= soon) --

Vodafone has come out with a similar idea: Sch= ool in a box!=C2=A0

http://www.itnewsafrica.com/2015/03/vo= dafone-reveals-instant-classrooms-for-refugees-in-africa/?utm_source=3Dfeed= burner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3DFeed%3A+itnewsafrica+%28ITN= ewsAfrica.com%29

Regards

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Pe= rsonal: http= ://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--f46d04426e3843c12005105f6ead-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 07:53:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAEC1A878E for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:53:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.149 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLYTO=1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iTbDhWsriusr for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD3AF1A87AE for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:53:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by wivz2 with SMTP id z2so4427061wiv.4 for ; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 07:53:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Pm3n5zZCjwPqnkBMpiXxdeZI1V9OV3d29hzQyA7X+Yg=; b=x1XwWg1oe7nDbyRKoOTM5DTwVGtIoooaF38pCO3ZSBELzQ4HadOtb6sI4JdovocJzl P/bJPZg5unlNotUM5X3GI8v4yowYQYTmYTHdL93iOw2YJ/4TVD06mz3oCUgYsmZF5Mos B1QMoo5BZDmHlwEJLtpGNNFeaDT2crD+X++/whIzUXOkEZ3iimqvP+Nh4MoV+WignZWs 5GH7EYKSpk98/YSWNXC/mNuENwnqRwIleb0pzh38O5nkfAD4B2IO1jd1Ww5IxlWxASNf uMHTpHBBizTigAa14GeBP2NBwcmlg+mHndO7wrZ9qvvLEmvROLVM2BRrZz4o1hY812oc 4Nfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.148 with SMTP id ey20mr4162006wid.18.1425398010561; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 07:53:30 -0800 (PST) Sender: paoladimaio10@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.100.199 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:53:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 21:23:30 +0530 X-Google-Sender-Auth: K0fAvqixReSNK84VNJ8VVTCLRqY Message-ID: From: Paola Di Maio To: gaia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] global vs local wifi access X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: paoladimaio10@googlemail.com List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 15:53:33 -0000 Googel is trying to get people online http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Google-to-offer-own-cellular-network-plan-6109906.php good news or bad news? Wonder if there have been discussion weighting the impact of large global players on local community wifi initiatives (will the competition from the big ones make things harder or easier ?) PDM From nobody Tue Mar 3 11:56:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BC31A700B for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:56:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXDoNwgMMbDX for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:56:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x233.google.com (mail-la0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4C401A1B9C for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by labgq15 with SMTP id gq15so39927887lab.6 for ; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:56:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=kPT/Gj1s7COYiUsqLBRkD0A4j80rAI25TpHl+UaOpjg=; b=T8C0ddlIjKG/mWZEfnIpeuvAOLjOSqtImq4pu5/cqrC24lhdzseF9BbESP4S503KJ1 x41fDtqZCXPpjejRHLFiCXWcLQ8anRhkfXScSRhmRfXcmpx/vU2oIvTbXB47F4i7bKom ReEzVNsTPDgX/GiJSf1kdkgVG/8fMJ+xR5ZRVV7DIJEBa7NplmTvSL493RRpJ8Xg/c9R IrjvdM74xY68NYg/ppIrhKzbErI99gCtCw0sw84fF7/kmIj7f680qTw1QTK4JTuMwhi2 3EYR3op5m2K0bT/ROX3UiM4V5VxxgjWDI33eUQloN3osOKa0vNePjVAYv+S2qHMqaLyv gWhA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.150.163 with SMTP id uj3mr402660lbb.51.1425412602163; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:56:42 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.176.199 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:56:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:56:41 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wBJJFQlS18ZiukqikJir6zGTkTU Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b33dcd8cf79f1051067bbf3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] global vs local wifi access X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:56:45 -0000 --047d7b33dcd8cf79f1051067bbf3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In general this is a good thing. Anything that undermines the comfortable oligopoly that mobile network operators enjoy through various the various bottlenecks they control from spectrum licenses, to sim cards, to national dialplans, is generally a good thing. It is, of course, quite possible to have too much of a good thing but we are a long way from that at the moment. This is only in the US at the moment so not yet relevant to emerging markets. I don't see this as having any impact at all on community wireless in the near future. Cheers... Steve On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Paola Di Maio wrote: > Googel is trying to get people online > > http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Google-to-offer-own-cellular-network-plan-6109906.php > > good news or bad news? > > Wonder if there have been discussion weighting the impact of large > global players on local community wifi initiatives (will the > competition from the big ones make things harder or easier ?) > > PDM > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > --047d7b33dcd8cf79f1051067bbf3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In general this is a good thing.=C2=A0 Anything that under= mines the comfortable oligopoly that mobile network operators enjoy through= various the various bottlenecks they control from spectrum licenses, to si= m cards, to national dialplans, is generally a good thing.=C2=A0 It is, of = course, quite possible to have too much of a good thing but we are a long w= ay from that at the moment.=C2=A0 This is only in the US at the moment so n= ot yet relevant to emerging markets.=C2=A0 I don't see this as having a= ny impact at all on community wireless in the near future.

Cheers... Steve

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:5= 3 AM, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
=

Googel is trying to get people online
http://www.sfgat= e.com/business/technology/article/Google-to-offer-own-cellular-network-plan= -6109906.php

good news or bad news?

Wonder if there have been discussion weighting the impact of large
global players on=C2=A0 local community wifi initiatives (will the
competition from the big ones make things harder or easier ?)

PDM

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--047d7b33dcd8cf79f1051067bbf3-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 12:51:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1DF1A8944 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:51:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KxL8iy1V0iIl for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x22a.google.com (mail-lb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4E1C1A1B80 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by lbvp9 with SMTP id p9so4756320lbv.10 for ; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:51:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=F33U6bl6Kiby/NcCqIOKpoPNlInjlLQe0i6pdA1DiLU=; b=kz+VBVb5IhYUR/nmkhjsHxohPND9euI03q7mKCcDCCVVjulp86majfvXfSYbSjzzXi MWwcnddB03yDKHR6FpoHWWjdZ6dLlsJ60TidOijFM1u5aCeK3liQHmjXkhtQN/SF5A1l 4QKGldvtO5fTZeGoMNxuEokH8uiuX8J/XWUkxI31IgmBW7igewxLgpj3O5+tVQMVKScg /YXq0aOr8pa/fQ3KPfqmKwZdY4SWnzYm1SUcrP+t5uLsRVZXIIn/xoGYBqm5SeX+/Ecb myVC4S+WVENsc+ACsFy7dJ95s9uyRP8x3TkJMbnOScy2x+HrGizxYeoF3uopzUoBhWmH F+cw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.36.226 with SMTP id t2mr535423laj.53.1425415886012; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:51:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.29.65 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:51:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 22:51:25 +0200 Message-ID: From: David Johnson To: gaia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] global vs local wifi access X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 20:51:30 -0000 There are so many ways to break into the market dominance of the operator cartel. I would break it down into technological, regulatory, infrastructural and I guess business model - and then these feed off each other. Technological innovations like Whatsapp and VoIP played a major part in disrupting sms and voice costs. Regulation that stipulates open access networks is another ... I also have no problem with companies like Google that use their large amounts of capital or position of influence to break down oligopolies as long as they don't become part of the system themselves and use this demonstration of a new alternative infrastructure / business model to change regulation. There is always a net neutrality danger though when a company that provides content also provides the physical connection - but Google is not evil so we're ok ... David On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Steve Song wrote: > In general this is a good thing. Anything that undermines the comfortable > oligopoly that mobile network operators enjoy through various the various > bottlenecks they control from spectrum licenses, to sim cards, to national > dialplans, is generally a good thing. It is, of course, quite possible to > have too much of a good thing but we are a long way from that at the moment. > This is only in the US at the moment so not yet relevant to emerging > markets. I don't see this as having any impact at all on community wireless > in the near future. > > Cheers... Steve > > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Paola Di Maio > wrote: >> >> Googel is trying to get people online >> >> http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Google-to-offer-own-cellular-network-plan-6109906.php >> >> good news or bad news? >> >> Wonder if there have been discussion weighting the impact of large >> global players on local community wifi initiatives (will the >> competition from the big ones make things harder or easier ?) >> >> PDM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > From nobody Wed Mar 4 12:37:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532C01ACE9C for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 12:37:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AevLFBjUYkdE for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 12:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-x229.google.com (mail-we0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB97E1ACE8D for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 12:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by wevm14 with SMTP id m14so48823795wev.8 for ; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:37:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2ZDylqSyvfddCQcRXiJlf4pVtHORMvB3fspunnWCWYY=; b=fqH6BSshpXAYDS02F4Qmbdh5O+9yqDCjbjXC2BxL+yVQxTxLxjH8boK1LiXkcUo3tJ wJWcdUhhw+N6xPuNJelM85eH6kaieuHxeAFr1Hm9Bt5SJyV8uSexAejBJpA7ZuAlFhXR vcQxZK2Eslxxk3Yw3sWJCYGvvec1CGAikTA5DTfjE0ezQsQ2zaJg1u8UP58iVfpxLqmQ FYCF+ZoGXeeedWEfSX9MNj0w/0Q4Fv0uMylqhTxGsCLkjXXe/YNTFH6WThxT6N4LY0WU Vbq0XHeG35Um78WWvW1vf1MBdJwjicfTuezxeSBNUDcIx+7QfUY/JY9SxE0GX5pQWm+o nv2w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.8.98 with SMTP id q2mr57842607wia.80.1425501452510; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:37:32 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.35.198 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 12:37:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 20:37:32 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PvLQZ8hjC5hB9RfyNEujwMochwk Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04426e38b42d7a05107c6bee Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] A4AI report X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 20:37:35 -0000 --f46d04426e38b42d7a05107c6bee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 incase anyone has not yet seen this latest affordability report released by the A4AI - its here: http://a4ai.org/affordability-report/report/ -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --f46d04426e38b42d7a05107c6bee Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

incase anyone has not yet seen this latest affordability r= eport released by the A4AI - its here: http://a4ai.org/affordability-report/report/

Arjuna Sat= hiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.u= k/~as2330/n4d

--f46d04426e38b42d7a05107c6bee-- From nobody Wed Mar 4 22:11:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176C41B29A8 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 22:11:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6mhjFCJTsEP for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 22:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from seu.edu.cn (voidc50.seu.edu.cn [121.248.60.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AB11A026A for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 22:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [223.3.78.91] (unknown [223.3.78.91]) by webmail1 (Coremail) with SMTP id qz34eQBHTRmS8_dU4l4_AA--.26808S3; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 14:11:30 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 14:10:56 +0800 From: Liu xuan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gaia@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CM-TRANSID: qz34eQBHTRmS8_dU4l4_AA--.26808S3 X-Coremail-Antispam: 1UD129KBjDUn29KB7ZKAUJUUUUU529EdanIXcx71UUUUU7v73 VFW2AGmfu7bjvjm3AaLaJ3UjIYCTnIWjp_UUUY57k0a2IF6F1UM7kC6x804xWl14x267AK xVWUJVW8JwAFc2x0x2IEx4CE42xK8VAvwI8IcIk0rVWrJVCq3wAFIxvE14AKwVWUJVWUGw A2ocxC64kIII0Yj41l84x0c7CEw4AK67xGY2AK021l84ACjcxK6xIIjxv20xvE14v26F1j 6w1UM28EF7xvwVC0I7IYx2IY6xkF7I0E14v26r4UJVWxJr1l84ACjcxK6I8E87Iv67AKxV W0oVCq3wA2z4x0Y4vEx4A2jsIEc7CjxVAFwI0_GcCE3s1le2I262IYc4CY6c8Ij28IcVAa Y2xG8wAqx4xG64xvF2IEw4CE5I8CrVC2j2WlYx0E2Ix0cI8IcVAFwI0_Jr0_Jr4lYx0Ex4 A2jsIE14v26r1j6r4UMcvjeVCFs4IE7xkEbVWUJVW8JwACjcxG0xvEwIxGrwCYjI0SjxkI 62AI1cAE67vIY487MxAIw28IcxkI7VAKI48JMxC20s026xCaFVCjc4AY6r1j6r4UMI8I3I 0E5I8CrVAFwI0_Jr0_Jr4lx2IqxVCjr7xvwVAFwI0_JrI_JrWlx4CE17CEb7AF67AKxVWU JVWUXwCIc40Y0x0EwIxGrwCI42IY6xIIjxv20xvE14v26r1j6r1xMIIF0xvE2Ix0cI8IcV CY1x0267AKxVWUJVW8JwCI42IY6xAIw20EY4v20xvaj40_WFyUJVCq3wCI42IY6I8E87Iv 67AKxVWUJVW8JwCI42IY6I8E87Iv6xkF7I0E14v26r1j6r4UYxBIdaVFxhVjvjDU0xZFpf 9x0zi5xhQUUUUU= X-CM-SenderInfo: ystqijizusiqxvhxhvlgxou0/ Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 06:11:36 -0000 Hi all, Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share information about it? Thanks, Liu xuan From nobody Fri Mar 6 05:12:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D262A1ACE0F; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:11:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H_BjkzRgcB6z; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6E11ACDF9; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:11:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150306131136.10624.91058.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 05:11:36 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 05:12:36 -0800 Cc: gaia@irtf.org Subject: [gaia] I-D Action: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-00.txt X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 13:11:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Global Access to the Internet for All Working Group of the IETF. Title : Alternative Network Deployments. Taxonomy, characterization, technologies and architectures Authors : Jose Saldana Andres Arcia-Moret Bart Braem Ermanno Pietrosemoli Arjuna Sathiaseelan Marco Zennaro Filename : draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-00.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2015-03-06 Abstract: This document presents a taxonomy of "Alternative Network deployments", and a set of definitions and shared characteristics. It also discusses the technologies employed in these network deployments, and their differing architectural characteristics. The term "Alternative Network deployments" includes a set of network access models that have emerged in the last decade with the aim of bringing Internet connectivity to people, using topological, architectural and business models different from the so-called "traditional" ones, where a company deploys or leases the network infrastructure for connecting the users, who pay a subscription fee to be connected and make use of it. Several initiatives throughout the world have built large scale networks that are alternative to the traditional network operator deployments using predominantly wireless technologies (including long distance) due to the reduced cost of using the unlicensed spectrum. Wired technologies such as fiber are also used in some of these alternate networks. There are several types of such alternate network: networks such as community networks are self-organized and decentralized networks wholly owned by the community; networks owned by individuals who act as wireless internet service providers (WISPs), networks owned by individuals but leased out to network operators who use such networks as a low-cost medium to reach the underserved population and finally there are networks that provide connectivity by sharing wireless resources of the users. The emergence of these networks can be motivated by different causes such as the reluctance, or the impossibility, of network operators to provide wired and cellular infrastructures to rural/remote areas. In these cases, the networks have self sustainable business models that provide more localised communication services as well as Internet backhaul support through peering agreements with traditional network operators. Some other times, networks are built as a complement and an alternative to commercial Internet access provided by "traditional" network operators. The present classification considers different existing network models such as Community Networks, open wireless services, user- extensible services, traditional local Internet Service Providers (ISPs), new global ISPs, etc. Different criteria are used in order to build a classification as e.g., the ownership of the equipment, the way the network is organized, the participatory model, the extensibility, if they are driven by a community, a company or a local (public or private) stakeholder, etc. According to the developed taxonomy, a characterization of each kind of network is presented, in terms of specific network characteristics related to architecture, organization, etc. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Mar 6 07:19:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D591A0046 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:19:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKYVgoWsvEf3 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from huecha.unizar.es (huecha.unizar.es [155.210.1.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAEBA1A0058 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.unizar.es (flumen.unizar.es [155.210.11.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by huecha.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id t26FJ6rJ015582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:19:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:19:10 +0100 From: jsaldana To: gaia@irtf.org Message-ID: X-Sender: jsaldana@unizar.es User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.8.5 X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] New version of the "Alternative Network Deployments" draft (former "manyfolks draft") X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 15:19:33 -0000 Hi all, As you may know, the “manyfolks draft” has now become a WG document, so its new name is “draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments”. You may find it here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments/ The main improvement is this: A set of “classification criteria” is first included, and then, at the beginning of each section, a table summarizing the criteria for each network is included. We have included 5 “axes”, according to the discussion in the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg00640.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg00615.html - Commercial model / promoter - Goals and motivation - Administrative model - Technologies employed - Typical scenarios It also includes a "loose" definition of "Traditional network", as opposed to "Alternative networks". We would need your feedback in order to improve it. Another question is if sections 4 and 5 make sense in this new version. Perhaps they are too long and too generic (not really focused on “alternative networks”). Thanks in advance! Jose Saldana From nobody Fri Mar 6 07:33:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A6B1A005C for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:33:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.098 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80OkwRmJ_oLz for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0671.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::671]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3BAC1A003A for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.147.53.169] (193.147.53.169) by DB3PR02MB314.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (25.160.43.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.106.15; Fri, 6 Mar 2015 15:31:06 +0000 Message-ID: <54F9C837.6000507@urjc.es> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:31:03 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?SmF2aWVyIFNpbcOz?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [193.147.53.169] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB3PR03CA0030.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.183.30) To DB3PR02MB314.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (25.160.43.22) Authentication-Results: irtf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR02MB314; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(6049001)(479174004)(53754006)(51704005)(23676002)(36756003)(64126003)(74482002)(40100003)(450100001)(46102003)(59896002)(122386002)(87266999)(92566002)(76176999)(54356999)(2950100001)(77156002)(62966003)(15975445007)(110136001)(19580405001)(50466002)(107886001)(2351001)(19580395003)(80316001)(33656002)(66066001)(87976001)(86362001)(85182001)(42186005)(50986999)(65816999)(47776003)(3940600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB3PR02MB314; H:[193.147.53.169]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5002007)(5005006); SRVR:DB3PR02MB314; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DB3PR02MB314; X-Forefront-PRVS: 05079D8470 X-OriginatorOrg: urjc.es X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2015 15:31:06.6630 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB3PR02MB314 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] New version of the "Alternative Network Deployments" draft (former "manyfolks draft") X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 15:33:00 -0000 El 06/03/15 a las 16:19, jsaldana escribió: > Another question is if sections 4 and 5 make sense in this new > version. Perhaps they are too long and too generic (not really focused > on “alternative networks”). > Hi all I agree. The document has to beat as a heart :-) There was a time for expansion of content, now it would be good to have a period of "compression". Now the question is how we do this and who should do it. While adding content is likely to be seen as a "constructive" contribution by all, the reduction of content may be a sensible task, specially for those who introduced text that is now going to be cut out. The methodology for this should be established first, then we can work on the document. I am volonteer to work on section 4. Best Javier > Thanks in advance! > > Jose Saldana > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia -- --------------------------------------------------- Fco. Javier Simó Reigadas Subdirector de Ord. Docente ETS de Ingeniería de Telecomunicación D-204, Departamental III Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo From nobody Wed Mar 11 16:12:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA0F1A8920 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVKPMo7ug48U for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22a.google.com (mail-pa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3389A1A891D for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padfb1 with SMTP id fb1so15120601pad.7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7TeZkrstmJq61Ns9juCAdfFgYEwentYSW3/ZHnGLu1U=; b=i9fmAwdUQLpqkjdtGFDwLyL4TLV8pHhC8VCY3/OFUuCim1HjOYXUIV788Qj1TrWvnI UngusbsJQ5raqY43Sgyb/HwiETapCdkx4eSx4ic94fHaoMNqlC7nOytwW/5wXAs3Oi7j /DiJ8Zzr0QlaBoHa2E9xvMOXZIjj07/49QRdJH8L3jdIdq3Vk0YOwgb0KviN9gX7in6i dft6zb3h4HBpC/PzuE9BmxQ5NtUS2BYaAV+oBK5lZCykKsuaFfj9t/bz+WzvIlhFA/ue JV1H0HQCPo2x9tToQMwxvJ2gCc4XqBZ3BbIsdOHGO2omR20zIlKia7XS2nCCWN1Eck/t uF6A== X-Received: by 10.67.3.105 with SMTP id bv9mr81649621pad.149.1426115524898; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:0:1000:fd86:2107:3751:4e84:5a26? ([2620:0:1000:fd86:2107:3751:4e84:5a26]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qm12sm7752349pdb.36.2015.03.11.16.12.03 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "Paul M. Aoki" Message-ID: <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:12:05 -0700 From: "Paul M. Aoki" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gaia@irtf.org References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> In-Reply-To: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:12:11 -0000 On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share > information about it? > > Thanks, > Liu xuan if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" and "project blink.") -- paul -- Paul M. Aoki Google Inc. 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA From nobody Wed Mar 11 18:33:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBA61A89AB for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VmbZXZ6sdf86 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 731F91A8993 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oibg201 with SMTP id g201so11141352oib.10 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=rJJaJBI9Hes9Dxx4g9IzofSdLuFUXCIFPL6HJGaTWGw=; b=uVBBWVnhIy/BsHCLBjvMU/mtu2aBd9zz0yAO4I6KCjVdVODKIoFOkXhWAYAXXROaMr C9uZWRUHBTrJygU1wMETBYz0mnIw6Atf7ABwbCYAP6SmeGQOz931ZuayllGafxsuJquI wDNw1+l4DwjlW286gcw7PhPpkN9dvo4bSFi3BqqTXtqUy4EnJdsT3j2t3FeqmJ4Li8DI 7nsUrrqD5KHlUAJ7PFfk5gBQTsEGqDuukUq2Gh3fyxT4bsTWQQr+C7LmScN1vHTWXIuF UlWq1Dw1jH7O6RgYgU6PRAxbebpD+bsONVFDACiS7J/DCoiY4vDKR0mGFmNI8HRjPqAl Gv8A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.70.161 with SMTP id n1mr32101527oeu.28.1426124000853; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.121.135 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:33:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:33:20 -0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MO_wHlyJ3IRX2w0TyLEUx-pRJ5M Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11335a047a063605110d5eb1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 01:33:23 -0000 --001a11335a047a063605110d5eb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: > On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >> information about it? >> >> Thanks, >> Liu xuan >> > > if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar > pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: > > http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ > > and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) > > (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" and > "project blink.") What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a mystery initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blanche. "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done. -Larry" Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look here: https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/ Regards... Steve Song > -- paul > > -- > Paul M. Aoki > Google Inc. > 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway > Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > --001a11335a047a063605110d5eb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On W= ed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm.org> wrote:

On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:
Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai&#= 39;s speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a= shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a mystery i= nitiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blan= che.

"It is by my order and for the good= of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done.

-Larry"

Pardon the mid-week= levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look here:

https://manypossibiliti= es.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song

=C2=A0=

-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--001a11335a047a063605110d5eb1-- From nobody Wed Mar 11 19:07:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8A41A89AB for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.9 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_MUTUALBENEFIT=2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t-aquR9Sfvee for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22e.google.com (mail-we0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1F771A89B3 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wesk11 with SMTP id k11so13148022wes.13 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=k0/9ASDj/oITDdKqhrdQ/tCUsz0HXx/o+IyoD5hGRus=; b=auWC0qMkGr/TLXyQlFF6DfOvLyaG0Gd8txTcvUjVNiETa6eP/LLEMgbehYWNFQVmSn p9XYUcxzIOcIqkG7+JPctgs2XVmUX2D4J539hcKdqyElkEcJ3EwYQmf7a6SMgVO5tg9a 9Wp2QURtMhNimzGQT8EtTKpPOy0PSN8L2ZFjeQFNC7vcYAlvkP0e3geuVvDQQC0JJKqM cki4qb31tq0WW6LZs7kJbX9X3RySoTFPGdicD0Ulwkcze2xkULDg+DQTj+QrTP9KmCdd +jO7HFZwx8H0UBK4diR4uS6tBeINrvl/uMHJv1vVKTzpIGEmXjc8frJzRnxWRwxr0iOu 79hA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.23.106 with SMTP id l10mr16073290wif.54.1426126027672; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.44.196 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 03:07:07 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ermanno Pietrosemoli To: Steve Song Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1130ceae48d1b805110dd709 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 02:07:12 -0000 --001a1130ceae48d1b805110dd709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I found Steve's piece quite interesting. I reminded me that many years ago when I was a consultant for a Telecom company in Venezuela, we received a proposal from another operator to share a fiber cable that we were about to deploy. At the time it made perfect sense and perhaps the trust issue was the deal breaker. Anyway, sharing a fiber cable is technically a no brainer, the cost of extra fibers in the cable is negligible compared with the installation costs, so the deployment of "dark fiber" has been a standard practice in the industry, and these fiber pairs can be leased to another party for mutual benefit. In the POP, the existence of equipment from competing operators is also an established practice in what is known as "co-location", so everything is in place for a win-win strategy of sharing infrastructure. Perhaps a third party that can lease the fiber to different operators is the winning bet in this game. Best, Ermanno On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Steve Song wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: > >> On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >>> information about it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Liu xuan >>> >> >> if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar >> pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: >> >> http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ >> >> and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) >> >> (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" an= d >> "project blink.") > > > What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a myster= y > initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blanch= e. > > "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has > done what he has done. > > -Larry" > > Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project > Link, look here: > > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-= cost-of-mistrust/ > > Regards... Steve Song > > > >> -- paul >> >> -- >> Paul M. Aoki >> Google Inc. >> 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway >> Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --=20 Professor Ermanno Pietrosemoli Telecommunications/ICT for Development Laboratory (T/ICT4D) Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics, GGH, Via Beirut 7, Trieste 34151 Italy ermanno@ictp.it http://wireless.ictp.it ------- Presidente Fundaci=C3=B3n Escuela Latinoamericana de Redes (EsLaRed) www.EsLaRed.net --001a1130ceae48d1b805110dd709 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

I found Steve's piece quite interesting. I= reminded me that many years ago when I was a consultant for a Telecom comp= any in Venezuela, we received a proposal from another operator to share a f= iber cable that we were about to deploy. At =C2=A0the time it made perfect = sense and perhaps the trust issue was the deal breaker.

Anyway, s= haring a fiber cable is technically a no brainer, the cost of extra fibers = in the cable is negligible compared with the installation costs, so the dep= loyment of "dark fiber" has been a standard practice in the indus= try, and these fiber pairs can be leased to another party for mutual benefi= t. In the POP, the existence of equipment from competing operators is also = an established practice in what is known as "co-location", so eve= rything is in place for a win-win strategy of sharing infrastructure. Perha= ps a third party that can lease the fiber to different operators is the win= ning bet in this game.

Best,

Ermanno

On Thu, M= ar 12, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wro= te:

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at = 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm.org> wrote:
= On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:

Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai&#= 39;s speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a my= stery initiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Car= te Blanche.

"It is by my order and for t= he good of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done.
<= div>
-Larry"

Pardon the m= id-week levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look = here:

https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-= cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song
<= span class=3D"">

=C2=A0
-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

Professor Ermanno Pietrosemoli
Telecommunications= /ICT for Development Laboratory (T/ICT4D)
Abdus Salam International Cent= re for Theoretical Physics, GGH,=C2=A0Via Beirut 7, Trieste 34151=C2=A0Ital= y

ermanno@ictp.it<= /a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 http://wireless.ictp.it
-------
Presidente
Fundaci= =C3=B3n Escuela Latinoamericana de Redes (EsLaRed)
www.EsLaRed.net

--001a1130ceae48d1b805110dd709-- From nobody Wed Mar 11 20:37:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E531A8967 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vi2TcbukzEi3 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0983E1A8899 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiwl15 with SMTP id l15so16909067wiw.0 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6MAEaFP1U4bg56z3edw9YDaJ3moe8bMBa0u5Wc59Yjg=; b=YcZk8dsR3EJzzgTXeqbHGmPj6MCPCQNRx3EkU9rbdEQdHopr6XwQn2hjGyywiy0hQp 8XIcjAuw4GaZsFCc+BHazOgoriikDmPt9d4ZnYAnk9u+eVOwCU1Zfhtkbve2Z75Bok2L xWPH9eW9coelI+lmdow9VJU5NxTuCnvzy8glN+vP/yf9mEqaAoW1KitrhUDzS1877UNm 1pDtPHwWtJKUlCQ5VdQhKUkZzchfwIfeNHpP389F7+xWBAohHAR+CLDWPOdZRjvlSiQy J/14D7mtJQT9B1ymFrYdPTIyx2CK1TvgxK4tf3Ufc5qoEEr8JgbtlmWaqxR1CFZrlB8N MdgA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.171.35 with SMTP id ar3mr85788491wic.24.1426131432619; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.54.89 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: From: Rohan Mahy To: Steve Song Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135e78e71c22e05110f1954 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 03:37:16 -0000 --001a1135e78e71c22e05110f1954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi All, I agree with Steve but I think he emphasized the stick (the cost of mistrust) without mentioning the trust that got the small players involved in the first place. All the players trust that Google (or Soliton-Telmec) will be impartial to their network traffic with respect to their competitors. You could probably extend this to work orders and trouble tickets processing as well. This is huge for the telecom industry. In the US when the regional Bell operating companies where ordered to provide access to the local loop, small players would routinely have to wait 4-6 weeks for new local loop installs that the incumbent would process in a few days for their own uses. If the Federal Communications Commission could have completely solved that problem had they mandated that the system that dispatches installers and handles trouble tickets have no way of knowing which provider corresponds to which work request. Scientists regularly perform blind or double-blind trials to eliminate subjective or unconscious bias. A similar method can work for eliminating deliberate bias as well. When candidates for symphonies started hearing auditions behind a screen, the number of women chosen surged dramatically [1]. Making a system more transparent (open) lets many people judge if a system is working fairly. Making a system blind goes a step further and creates trust in the system and the process. Thanks, -rohan [1] http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Steve Song wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: > >> On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >>> information about it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Liu xuan >>> >> >> if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar >> pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: >> >> http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ >> >> and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) >> >> (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" and >> "project blink.") > > > What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a mystery > initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blanche. > > "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has > done what he has done. > > -Larry" > > Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project > Link, look here: > > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/ > > Regards... Steve Song > > > >> -- paul >> >> -- >> Paul M. Aoki >> Google Inc. >> 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway >> Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --001a1135e78e71c22e05110f1954 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

I agree with Steve but I think = he emphasized the stick (the cost of mistrust) without mentioning the trust= that got the small players involved in the first place. All the players tr= ust that Google (or Soliton-Telmec) will be impartial to their network traf= fic with respect to their competitors. You could probably extend this to wo= rk orders and trouble tickets processing as well. This is huge for the tele= com industry.

In the US when the regional Bell operating companies = where ordered to provide access to the local loop, small players would rout= inely have to wait 4-6 weeks for new local loop installs that the incumbent= would process in a few days for their own uses. If the Federal Communicati= ons Commission could have completely solved that problem had they mandated = that the system that dispatches installers and handles trouble tickets have= no way of knowing which provider corresponds to which work request. Scient= ists regularly perform blind or double-blind trials to eliminate subjective= or unconscious bias. A similar method can work for eliminating deliberate = bias as well. When candidates for symphonies started hearing auditions behi= nd a screen, the number of women chosen surged dramatically [1].

Making a system more transparent (open) lets many people judge if a= system is working fairly.=C2=A0 Making a system blind goes a step further = and creates trust in the system and the process.

Thanks,<= br>

-rohan

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditio= ns-orchestras-gender-bias

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Steve Song <= stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:

=
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm.org>= ; wrote:
On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wr= ote:

Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai&#= 39;s speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a my= stery initiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Car= te Blanche.

"It is by my order and for t= he good of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done.
<= div>
-Larry"

Pardon the m= id-week levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look = here:

https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-= cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song
<= span class=3D"">

=C2=A0
-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--001a1135e78e71c22e05110f1954-- From nobody Thu Mar 12 05:26:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C3F1A007B for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id di_VK71HHx1S for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x234.google.com (mail-ob0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7A161A0086 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obcwp18 with SMTP id wp18so14696461obc.6 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=pvS0zXBj+TtF2XbmC+5fsV7KjO3Hj3Sfa+AFtUTbrvM=; b=fO0lj+JKLYydKYV9QItw0jsBAJgVo37owtPb6BFXe269LW+P/XyEYdo7kEKaBaapgy xtOM9/264Yy2RRozEN54B63nwH6DPZ/rTYa9oQLlyC4z3uVbquT/kS8+QqDxmqixwqQN 9LWT+TTeLKMZTGFawvP9JoCQEVAdZ4ruNXPly9Q0/SQssCMxfukfj/ebADMQvID6LUSq SJA0WHAk3hXxizjRnZqvFqZiC8PpETjqQuR0X2hcJzRI9xkAUdh5k7UBTHS5uDEzvIAl H3MTJgSufANg5nD9kuYuSeBncU2lSjf/+fxSEFw8Ln2GXZHIN0RZeDQ/b+bvJHPr8rcK gCAg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.194.212 with SMTP id s203mr32135696oif.115.1426163204076; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.121.135 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:26:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org>

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:26:43 -0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XUxh4XEbxp2g5bH7w8Owfkemdwo Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d75482bba700511167f30 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:26:49 -0000 --001a113d75482bba700511167f30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Rohan, On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Rohan Mahy wrote: > Hi All, > I agree with Steve but I think he emphasized the stick (the cost of > mistrust) without mentioning the trust that got the small players involved > in the first place. All the players trust that Google (or Soliton-Telmec) > will be impartial to their network traffic with respect to their > competitors. You could probably extend this to work orders and trouble > tickets processing as well. This is huge for the telecom industry. > I think trusting Google was an important part of it but so was the scale of risk involved. The market entry point was low enough that smaller players were willing to gamble. Creating viable options for smaller players was key to success and key to creating a competitive telecommunications landscape anywhere. It amazes me the level of public outcry around network neutrality in the name of defending the rise of the next Mark Zuckerberg, which I happen to agree with, but little or nothing is said about enabling the small infrastructure entrepreneur. In the US when the regional Bell operating companies where ordered to > provide access to the local loop, small players would routinely have to > wait 4-6 weeks for new local loop installs that the incumbent would process > in a few days for their own uses. If the Federal Communications Commission > could have completely solved that problem had they mandated that the system > that dispatches installers and handles trouble tickets have no way of > knowing which provider corresponds to which work request. Scientists > regularly perform blind or double-blind trials to eliminate subjective or > unconscious bias. A similar method can work for eliminating deliberate bias > as well. When candidates for symphonies started hearing auditions behind a > screen, the number of women chosen surged dramatically [1]. > > Making a system more transparent (open) lets many people judge if a system > is working fairly. Making a system blind goes a step further and creates > trust in the system and the process. > Great point. I hadn't thought of the blind trials example in this context. I think openness can be a great lever for change but it is not always the right tool. Using trust as a lens of analysis might reveal new and possible more successful infrastructure strategies. Or it might just be Baader-Meinhoff syndrome :). I go on more about it at https://manypossibilities.net/2015/01/the-future-of-open-and-how-to-stop-it/ Cheers... Steve > Thanks, > -rohan > > [1] > http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Steve Song wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: >> >>> On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >>>> information about it? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Liu xuan >>>> >>> >>> if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar >>> pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: >>> >>> http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ >>> >>> and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) >>> >>> (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" >>> and "project blink.") >> >> >> What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a >> mystery initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte >> Blanche. >> >> "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has >> done what he has done. >> >> -Larry" >> >> Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project >> Link, look here: >> >> >> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/ >> >> Regards... Steve Song >> >> >> >>> -- paul >>> >>> -- >>> Paul M. Aoki >>> Google Inc. >>> 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway >>> Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> > --001a113d75482bba700511167f30 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rohan,

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Rohan Mahy <= ;rohan.ietf@gmail= .com> wrote:

Hi All= ,
I agree with Steve but I think he emphasized the stick (the= cost of mistrust) without mentioning the trust that got the small players = involved in the first place. All the players trust that Google (or Soliton-= Telmec) will be impartial to their network traffic with respect to their co= mpetitors. You could probably extend this to work orders and trouble ticket= s processing as well. This is huge for the telecom industry.

=C2=A0

I think trusting Google was an importa= nt part of it but so was the scale of risk involved.=C2=A0 The market entry= point was low enough that smaller players were willing to gamble.=C2=A0 Cr= eating viable options for smaller players was key to success and key to cre= ating a competitive telecommunications landscape anywhere. =C2=A0<brief = rant> It amazes me the level of public outcry around network neutrality = in the name of defending the rise of the next Mark Zuckerberg, which I happ= en to agree with, but little or nothing is said about enabling the small in= frastructure entrepreneur. </brief rant>

In the US when the regional Bell operating c= ompanies where ordered to provide access to the local loop, small players w= ould routinely have to wait 4-6 weeks for new local loop installs that the = incumbent would process in a few days for their own uses. If the Federal Co= mmunications Commission could have completely solved that problem had they = mandated that the system that dispatches installers and handles trouble tic= kets have no way of knowing which provider corresponds to which work reques= t. Scientists regularly perform blind or double-blind trials to eliminate s= ubjective or unconscious bias. A similar method can work for eliminating de= liberate bias as well. When candidates for symphonies started hearing audit= ions behind a screen, the number of women chosen surged dramatically [1].

Making a system more transparent (open) lets many people j= udge if a system is working fairly.=C2=A0 Making a system blind goes a step= further and creates trust in the system and the process.

Great point.=C2=A0 I hadn't thought of t= he blind trials example in this context.=C2=A0 I think openness can be a gr= eat lever for change but it is not always the right tool.=C2=A0 Using trust= as a lens of analysis might reveal new and possible more successful infras= tructure strategies. Or it might just be Baader-Meinhoff syndrome :).=C2=A0= I go on more about it at=C2=A0https://manypossibilities.net/= 2015/01/the-future-of-open-and-how-to-stop-it/ =C2=A0

Cheers... Steve

=C2=A0

Thanks,
-rohan

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-= leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias
=

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Steve Song <steve= song@nsrc.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2= 015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm.org> wrote:
On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:

Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai&#= 39;s speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a my= stery initiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Car= te Blanche.

"It is by my order and for t= he good of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done.
<= div>
-Larry"

Pardon the m= id-week levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look = here:

https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-= cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song
<= span>

=C2=A0
-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--001a113d75482bba700511167f30-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 14:20:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8521A8886 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.001 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lo_FlsPx_A0X for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x230.google.com (mail-we0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B5D1A8854 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wesw62 with SMTP id w62so25978786wes.0 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kE4BcBYiX8IW0/tHrHxMqFGCoYc7PNHjlm6y0dCcrX8=; b=AQVCiGimy78UjXPaI77Vy173kktneYYOBa6TmJtoctCuv4IVM/Vs9Pn2+d6y8qcUfz z9NJXV1pJEVCiYZp0zB+e1reNPybNM2msKQsfSS+a8LvEvx+FNd8MG57nvyHuOSLdfTV f8aibx9lUbq8lmuVsOWbbbB+u64/atiAd1pJ2xS+ciowfN2tNkGTZhgcoT1uInJ7PR1T lhLpBk5yp0D/+pyBlnLcFxSccyTilPcX7UIQWOc05Cll/cY/imNiTGQIaSqoaL5FaufU IazeKOgXHkqBxJlI60eovzBjbVrUwY5xgIR6XWPOca+/lta0PCy62I7ktKFGYJueBY6S TqWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.93.165 with SMTP id cv5mr62068060wib.51.1426281648750; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.44.196 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 14:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:20:48 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ermanno Pietrosemoli To: Carlo Fonda , gaia , Marco Zennaro , Canessa Enrique Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c80b20605e70511321339 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] =?utf-8?q?Italia_=C3=A8_la_seconda_nazione_al_mondo_per_nu?= =?utf-8?q?mero_di_Laboratori_di_fabbricazione_digitale?= X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 21:20:53 -0000 --f46d043c80b20605e70511321339 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.lastampa.it/2015/03/13/tecnologia/fablab-e-makerspace-un-fenomen= o-in-espansione-XAfcg9yfAc4Z4vLXpiWNFO/pagina.html --=20 Professor Ermanno Pietrosemoli Telecommunications/ICT for Development Laboratory (T/ICT4D) Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics, GGH, Via Beirut 7, Trieste 34151 Italy ermanno@ictp.it http://wireless.ictp.it ------- Presidente Fundaci=C3=B3n Escuela Latinoamericana de Redes (EsLaRed) www.EsLaRed.net --f46d043c80b20605e70511321339 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.lastampa.it/2015/03/13/tecnologia/fablab-e-makerspace-un-fe= nomeno-in-espansione-XAfcg9yfAc4Z4vLXpiWNFO/pagina.html

Professor Ermanno Pi= etrosemoli
Telecommunications/ICT for Development Laboratory (T/ICT4D)Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics, GGH,=C2=A0Via B= eirut 7, Trieste 34151=C2=A0Italy

ermanno@ictp.it =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0http://wireless.ictp.it
--= -----
Presidente
Fundaci=C3=B3n Escuela Latinoamericana de Redes (EsL= aRed)
www.EsLaRed.n= et

--f46d043c80b20605e70511321339-- From nobody Sun Mar 15 21:00:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765481A017D for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.423 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 56UhSPRXeSVi for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22a.google.com (mail-wg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D7E41A016C for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wggv3 with SMTP id v3so29689844wgg.1 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=EOXghyYcM0ex6kgOYpYcIBOGtEx5rKzxGi54HTPed6Y=; b=oz02EBM6la4Yi6PIlh84NuQdZlLT/VaMRw9Lklccavof29he+yePGMs+oXrHckGyTh ZIeb79FkkNIxDbkeyGZt/3qqb79HL+P5/MAhEmQEmg3Jw6jFyr/ghO0+4GJ5rkfofRsa v4PT682/hb+Ue0fwM7woSoiL97/nrp3QltemDZlQg3J4ij1e7gJoI0uxmGOz0+Ah6sfY iPf+EmIg/u7sfihiuovjGvWRGwDD54Q9+ZbMR/VWtYBexXWTN8O3osmhtLlfE1F0CU0O 4scJ/WehrDYxqiYgaWgL6vpSdm1NKqRFo6bfHTwAjw5k1CheG0u8JMFbzljmlpTcB0c7 La5w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.94.1 with SMTP id cy1mr116029420wjb.127.1426478426815; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.85.193 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:00:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:00:26 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rzGM0McH-SqJUIU68keUGMXJzo8 Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: Steve Song Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0c39ae9010c05115fe323 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:00:30 -0000 --047d7bf0c39ae9010c05115fe323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello Steve, all, Last friday we had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics in Internet Engineering: http://www.cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-us/events During my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet need everybody?" :) - there was this interesting discussion (some Google MLab folks were present) - the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free Internet access -- 1. Get multistake holder involvement - provide tie ups with operators and they lease capacity (for e.g. unused capacity) and then provide it for free because they may have some socio-environmental objective - people in the workshop generally ok with this.. 2. Sometimes if you have point 1 - you may provide access to certain sites for free (blacklist/whitelist) or some zero-rating - huh this seemed to be an issue - people in the workshop were not that supportive --- questions were like: why should marginalised people access only certain sites? looked legitimate to me.. 3. The google folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiered service that provides free access and then paid services -- and Google "still makes money" -- so my question is how does google fiber make money by providing a low tiered free service - is it getting more people to access "their services" or do the free users move onto a paid service later? Regards On 12 March 2015 at 01:33, Steve Song wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: > >> On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >>> information about it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Liu xuan >>> >> >> if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar >> pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: >> >> http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ >> >> and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) >> >> (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" and >> "project blink.") > > > What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a mystery > initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blanche. > > "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has > done what he has done. > > -Larry" > > Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project > Link, look here: > > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/ > > Regards... Steve Song > > > >> -- paul >> >> -- >> Paul M. Aoki >> Google Inc. >> 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway >> Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --047d7bf0c39ae9010c05115fe323 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Steve, all,

=C2=A0Last friday we = had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics in Internet Engineering:=C2= =A0http://www= .cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-us/events

During= my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet need everybod= y?" :)=C2=A0

- there was this interesting dis= cussion (some Google MLab folks were present) -=C2=A0

<= div>the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free Intern= et access --

1. Get multistake holder involvement = - provide tie ups with operators and they lease capacity (for e.g. unused c= apacity) and then provide it for free because they may have some socio-envi= ronmental objective - people in the workshop generally ok with this..

2. Sometimes if you have point 1 - you may provide acce= ss to certain sites for free (blacklist/whitelist) or some zero-rating - hu= h this seemed to be an issue - people in the workshop were not that support= ive --- questions were like: why should marginalised people access only cer= tain sites? looked legitimate to me..

3. The googl= e folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiered service that pr= ovides free access and then paid services -- and Google "still makes m= oney" --=C2=A0

so my question is how does goo= gle fiber make money by providing a low tiered free service - is it getting= more people to access "their services" or do the free users move= onto a paid service later?

Regards

On 12 March 2015 at = 01:33, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. = Aoki <aoki@acm.org> wrote:

On 3/4/2015 = 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:

Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai&#= 39;s speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a my= stery initiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Car= te Blanche.

"It is by my order and for t= he good of Google that the bearer of this has done what he has done.

<= div>

-Larry"

Pardon the m= id-week levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link, look = here:

https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-= cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song

<= span class=3D"">

=C2=A0

-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as233= 0/
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--047d7bf0c39ae9010c05115fe323-- From nobody Mon Mar 16 04:08:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1F71A86F2 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:08:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jj4VHzk_L0cE for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0657.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::657]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D60AE1A0092 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.16) by BLUPR06MB145.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.106.15; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:20 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) by BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) with mapi id 15.01.0112.000; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:19 +0000 From: Jane Coffin To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan , Steve Song Thread-Topic: [gaia] Google Project Blank Thread-Index: AQHQXFDTw3z/csto9k+/NWxq16Srwp0YEGkAgAZybQCAADR2AA== Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [172.56.2.63] authentication-results: cl.cam.ac.uk; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-antispam-report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(53754006)(479174004)(164054003)(377454003)(24454002)(102836002)(46102003)(92566002)(2950100001)(2900100001)(15975445007)(19617315012)(36756003)(106116001)(99286002)(62966003)(122556002)(19580405001)(40100003)(50986999)(76176999)(54356999)(83506001)(77156002)(87936001)(86362001)(66066001)(2656002)(16940595002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; H:BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5002010)(5005006); SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-prvs: 05177D47DC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D12C31961DB12coffinisocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Mar 2015 11:08:19.5256 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR06MB145 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:48 -0000 --_000_D12C31961DB12coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Arjuna - Building networks is darn expensive. I would be curious how any service can be free given there are costs involv= ed with any service delivery - maintenance for instance? Jane From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 5:00 AM To: Steve Song > Cc: gaia > Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank Hello Steve, all, Last friday we had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics in Internet= Engineering: http://www.cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-us/events During my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet need everybo= dy?" :) - there was this interesting discussion (some Google MLab folks were presen= t) - the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free Internet a= ccess -- 1. Get multistake holder involvement - provide tie ups with operators and t= hey lease capacity (for e.g. unused capacity) and then provide it for free = because they may have some socio-environmental objective - people in the wo= rkshop generally ok with this.. 2. Sometimes if you have point 1 - you may provide access to certain sites = for free (blacklist/whitelist) or some zero-rating - huh this seemed to be = an issue - people in the workshop were not that supportive --- questions we= re like: why should marginalised people access only certain sites? looked l= egitimate to me.. 3. The google folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiered ser= vice that provides free access and then paid services -- and Google "still = makes money" -- so my question is how does google fiber make money by providing a low tiere= d free service - is it getting more people to access "their services" or do= the free users move onto a paid service later? Regards On 12 March 2015 at 01:33, Steve Song > wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki > wrote: On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: Hi all, Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share information about it? Thanks, Liu xuan if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar pichai's= speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" and "= project blink.") What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a mystery = initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Carte Blanche. "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this has d= one what he has done. -Larry" Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project Link= , look here: https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-co= st-of-mistrust/ Regards... Steve Song -- paul -- Paul M. Aoki > Google Inc. 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --_000_D12C31961DB12coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Arjuna -

Building networks is darn expensive.

I would be curious how any service can be free given there are costs i= nvolved with any service delivery – maintenance for instance?

Jane

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.a= c.uk>
Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 5:0= 0 AM
To: Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>
Cc: gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project = Blank

Hello Steve, all,

Last friday we had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics i= n Internet Engineering: http://www.cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-us/events

During my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet ne= ed everybody?" :)

- there was this interesting discussion (some Google MLab folks were p= resent) -

the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free Inter= net access --

1. Get multistake holder involvement - provide tie ups with operators = and they lease capacity (for e.g. unused capacity) and then provide it for = free because they may have some socio-environmental objective - people in t= he workshop generally ok with this..

2. Sometimes if you have point 1 - you may provide access to certain s= ites for free (blacklist/whitelist) or some zero-rating - huh this seemed t= o be an issue - people in the workshop were not that supportive --- questio= ns were like: why should marginalised people access only certain sites? looked legitimate to me..

3. The google folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiere= d service that provides free access and then paid services -- and Google &q= uot;still makes money" --

so my question is how does google fiber make money by providing a low = tiered free service - is it getting more people to access "their servi= ces" or do the free users move onto a paid service later?

Regards

On 12 March 2015 at 01:33, Steve Song <steves= ong@nsrc.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM= , Paul M. Aoki <aok= i@acm.org> wrote:

On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:

Hi all,

Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar p= ichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for = a mystery initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a= Carte Blanche.

"It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of = this has done what he has done.

-Larry"

Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Pr= oject Link, look here:

https://manypossibilitie= s.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song

-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: ht= tp://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: = http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--_000_D12C31961DB12coffinisocorg_-- From nobody Mon Mar 16 05:07:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D94F1A8702 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fhETra18YhfS for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CD7F1A8700 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wifj2 with SMTP id j2so41482651wif.1 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xdYinozSS9Uw1ppfjY7cguqyyF53YqbtKLrmMLZzaUE=; b=WI/Gc69RX65TXKbS5HHmHrMnsO3uUrpp9IpztVEeKETF/mj6ZaxswLBNdCUMbNk+Hs +uRK18rdKT4WKxNUGcZ5eQVPXwvWYeC/mfBTo3kqo7kGYqn+L8oZTZ4QKo+lMoudz/X1 w6XtQ50UJBLxjvReM/hwa4DeRNgnK1QFBCqv4kZsaF52zNPOFtAh9t0hxEf2gudDhNiw PibH7sGnuHwtJkXAXRqjRCrtHVGLBGIBaWdCcz/xF6QEii71TapgzcHge/1VIQtCYpuL PQboTnW2uor/nNfIgOS1uw+Ki0E2iFYazOE2kCJkibIFsF8EHXAzb28Rk9aWdVg5/lE+ mzng== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.108.203 with SMTP id hm11mr85757924wib.49.1426507631136; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.85.193 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:07:11 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1mKqULHFDzcdWekkBqPinIUNm-0 Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3ba93d9f96cc051166b09f Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] 40 maps that explain the internet X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:07:14 -0000 --e89a8f3ba93d9f96cc051166b09f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 really useful piece of information with some very cool maps: http://www.vox.com/a/internet-maps -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --e89a8f3ba93d9f96cc051166b09f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

really useful piece of information with some very cool map= s: http://www.vox.com/a/inte= rnet-maps

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D= Lab: htt= p://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--e89a8f3ba93d9f96cc051166b09f-- From nobody Mon Mar 16 05:12:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDFF1A870D for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1P7Xv8gQJCxW for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC7321A870C for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wixw10 with SMTP id w10so29122326wix.0 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=62m8kbwK4nGgUiMHzz53vcQEQimVP4TplzDm1DXwSzM=; b=oFGl/wFt7P/vp8UegB9IdIOUN/3a4GKmrcU0STsKFBhlo/lC+Oe5MFR6GsSzZWmG6O Q+rNQOSUPNHU92J8QSz1z9IR59OGESHOErPD+W6jKIvinhIhZJW1wZgwgikV04suAp5W KaDtsi99H6bbd8GoUcTu7dBol+iIuf2/I6Rt+g7LeXTW+Y+t+Dgj3V4m8L4AcNakXr0j uh7fJBSAO2j5Xy65HDLXhpH1WETBeZGPt4AZhaqKMUE3ORh/5sEYKScuJ3C+Tztv7bUt 69vUlntl6LNQvUmgiwIVvmPSMBPMAWANbozQHkyKZN5pjI5SHbMwhQiKEvv+a+RSSzUg M6Pg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.39 with SMTP id ev7mr166389720wid.3.1426507934464; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.85.193 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 05:12:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:12:14 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8xjBacbgFg4N7sZ7JF_dtnFjAWI Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: Jane Coffin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be268b4004b051166c271 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:12:18 -0000 --f46d043be268b4004b051166c271 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jane: Its interesting indeed - pl see the pricing plans: https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/ So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- but then the speeds are pretty good too..I am really curious to know how they make money :) and would this plan work in a developing region? Regards On 16 March 2015 at 11:08, Jane Coffin wrote: > Hi Arjuna - > > Building networks is darn expensive. > I would be curious how any service can be free given there are costs > involved with any service delivery =E2=80=93 maintenance for instance? > > Jane > > From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 5:00 AM > To: Steve Song > Cc: gaia > Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank > > Hello Steve, all, > > Last friday we had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics in > Internet Engineering: http://www.cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-us/events > > During my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet need > everybody?" :) > > - there was this interesting discussion (some Google MLab folks were > present) - > > the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free > Internet access -- > > 1. Get multistake holder involvement - provide tie ups with operators > and they lease capacity (for e.g. unused capacity) and then provide it fo= r > free because they may have some socio-environmental objective - people in > the workshop generally ok with this.. > > 2. Sometimes if you have point 1 - you may provide access to certain > sites for free (blacklist/whitelist) or some zero-rating - huh this seeme= d > to be an issue - people in the workshop were not that supportive --- > questions were like: why should marginalised people access only certain > sites? looked legitimate to me.. > > 3. The google folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiered > service that provides free access and then paid services -- and Google > "still makes money" -- > > so my question is how does google fiber make money by providing a low > tiered free service - is it getting more people to access "their services= " > or do the free users move onto a paid service later? > > Regards > > On 12 March 2015 at 01:33, Steve Song wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. Aoki wrote: >> >>> On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and share >>>> information about it? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Liu xuan >>>> >>> >>> if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar >>> pichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link: >>> >>> http://www.google.com/get/projectlink/ >>> >>> and to its ambitions. (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.) >>> >>> (it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank" >>> and "project blink.") >> >> >> What a shame! Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for a >> mystery initiative. I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a Car= te >> Blanche. >> >> "It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of this >> has done what he has done. >> >> -Larry" >> >> Pardon the mid-week levity. For more thoughtful reflection on Project >> Link, look here: >> >> >> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the= -cost-of-mistrust/ >> >> Regards... Steve Song >> >> >> >>> -- paul >>> >>> -- >>> Paul M. Aoki >>> Google Inc. >>> 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway >>> Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> > > > -- > Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ > N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d > --=20 Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --f46d043be268b4004b051166c271 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Jane:

Its interesting indeed - pl= see the pricing plans:

https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/

<= div>

So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- bu= t then the speeds are pretty good too..I am really curious to know how they= make money =C2=A0:)

and would this plan work in a= developing region?

Regards

On 16 March 2= 015 at 11:08, Jane Coffin <coffin@isoc.org> wrote:

Hi Arjuna -

Building networks is darn expensive.

I would be curious how any service can be free given there are costs i= nvolved with any service delivery =E2=80=93 maintenance for instance?

Jane

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sat= hiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 5:0= 0 AM
To: Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>
Cc: gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project = Blank

Hello Steve, all,

=C2=A0Last friday we had an interesting workshop in Oxford on Ethics i= n Internet Engineering:=C2=A0http://www.cybersecurity.ox.ac.uk/about-u= s/events

During my talk which had a ridiculous title "Does the Internet ne= ed everybody?" :)=C2=A0

- there was this interesting discussion (some Google MLab folks were p= resent) -=C2=A0

the discussion was how do we enable the notion of universal free Inter= net access --

3. The google folks said Google fiber has tiered services..a low tiere= d service that provides free access and then paid services -- and Google &q= uot;still makes money" --=C2=A0

Regards

On 12 March 2015 at 01:33, Steve Song <steves= ong@nsrc.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Paul M. A= oki <aok= i@acm.org> wrote:

On 3/4/2015 10:10 PM, Liu xuan wrote:

Hi all,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is there anyone to know about Google Project Blank and= =C2=A0 share
information about it?

Thanks,
Liu xuan

if you are referring to what was reported in the press from sundar p= ichai's speech at MWC this year, he was referring to project link:

http:/= /www.google.com/get/projectlink/

and to its ambitions.=C2=A0 (he also referred to plans for loon and titan.)=

(it looks like this was reported in various places as "project blank&q= uot; and "project blink.")

What a shame!=C2=A0 Project Blank is hands-down my favourite name for = a mystery initiative. =C2=A0 I imagine it like Cardinal Richelieu signing a= Carte Blanche.

"It is by my order and for the good of Google that the bearer of = this has done what he has done.

-Larry"

Pardon the mid-week levity.=C2=A0 For more thoughtful reflection on Pr= oject Link, look here:

https://manypossibilitie= s.net/2015/02/open-access-infrastructure-and-the-cost-of-mistrust/

Regards... Steve Song

=C2=A0

-- paul

--
Paul M. Aoki <aoki@acm= .org>
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 USA

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: ht= tp://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: = http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/=
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--f46d043be268b4004b051166c271-- From nobody Mon Mar 16 06:29:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6E11A8746 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LGVEoRY3esOp for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0697.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:697]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 127801A8743 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.16) by BLUPR06MB145.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.106.15; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:29:36 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) by BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) with mapi id 15.01.0112.000; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:29:36 +0000 From: Jane Coffin To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan , gaia Thread-Topic: [gaia] 40 maps that explain the internet Thread-Index: AQHQX+HAmHyw86x7IESBSgSoWb39RJ0e15WA Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:29:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [172.56.2.63] authentication-results: cl.cam.ac.uk; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-antispam-report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(377454003)(50986999)(54356999)(76176999)(19580395003)(19580405001)(40100003)(86362001)(87936001)(2656002)(66066001)(83506001)(77156002)(2950100001)(2900100001)(92566002)(15975445007)(102836002)(46102003)(107886001)(99286002)(106116001)(122556002)(62966003)(19617315012)(36756003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; H:BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5002010)(5005006); SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-prvs: 05177D47DC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D12C52D41DE89coffinisocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Mar 2015 13:29:36.1274 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR06MB145 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] 40 maps that explain the internet X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:29:55 -0000 --_000_D12C52D41DE89coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are great resources and ICANN has a nice intro class that you can tak= e along with some of those same resources. From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM To: gaia > Subject: [gaia] 40 maps that explain the internet really useful piece of information with some very cool maps: http://www.vox= .com/a/internet-maps -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --_000_D12C52D41DE89coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <80FDD359406FFE46BB8B35F7504BA28E@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

These are great resources and ICANN has a nice intro class that you ca= n take along with some of those same resources.

From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.a= c.uk>
Date: Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:0= 7 PM
To: gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: [gaia] 40 maps that explai= n the internet

really useful piece of information with some very cool map= s: http://www.vox.com/a/internet-maps

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: ht= tp://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: = http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--_000_D12C52D41DE89coffinisocorg_-- From nobody Wed Mar 18 03:14:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F77D1A000A for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2aCBwVqgYXzc for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 775341A0006 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wixw10 with SMTP id w10so35148151wix.0 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=z4/U76jV1Qff+1cKoVbY/dYqh9vHvP1Oj/4CcEYI+IQ=; b=km7XH+0m14pBS5MuRmFDyMz2wTVdHV8lU+3g2vLvr9bJQmoLm+9/uXuZrkHH6PbQF4 CIx+y9X8ho5XfuSj2JywHCKY+ZV91KKoSrlUJ1NORWzKYhHNFqV09nBqLw4uIZwp+p1Z d74/ZHr0IPGmWeeVBpvQwGesu/+SWQxKbccM+7ynZHZ2P3J/CX0LMAvUanI3hCwfhpDE JZ8aIVswXLBKTAK+2OkULd/9o9z89ab7dDrMfjDWEgH1imautMaIwObdCVVXQH+7YTho CibQZYsUQnFMoyHm8QdlVNOQspeDsvAIyjxXa06YK3DlyuW3NPMhPAyGGybWAgU+fm9G 2KOA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.170.193 with SMTP id ao1mr141206381wjc.52.1426673684182; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.175.1 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:14:44 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: EvE3fCmrOOT9ulVDcuGr9x5vH94 Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f37427fa7505118d5a82 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Fwd: [programme-announce-il] ** Applications Open for Internet Society Fellowship to IETF 93 (Prague, Czech Republic) ** X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:14:47 -0000 --089e0122f37427fa7505118d5a82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For info. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Niel Harper Date: 18 March 2015 at 10:07 Subject: [programme-announce-il] ** Applications Open for Internet Society Fellowship to IETF 93 (Prague, Czech Republic) ** To: "programme-announce-il@elists.isoc.org" < programme-announce-il@elists.isoc.org> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BDear Colleagues, The Internet Society has announced that it is inviting applications for its latest Internet Society Fellowships to the IETF. The Fellowship programme allows engineers from emerging and developing economies to attend an Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) meeting. As you know, the IETF is the Internet's premier standards-making body, responsible for the development of protocols used in IP-based networks. IETF participants represent an international community of network designers, operators, vendors, and researchers involved in the technical operation of the Internet and the continuing evolution of Internet architecture. Fellowships will be awarded through a competitive application process. The Internet Society is currently accepting fellowship applications for the IETF 93 in Prague, Czech Republic: * IETF 93, July 19-24, 2015, Prague, Czech Republic. Information and links to apply can be found at: http://www.internetsociety= . org/fellows-ietf Fellowship applications will close on 5 April, 2015. I encourage you to apply or pass this information about this program to individuals involved in your network that have a keen interest in the Internet protocol development activities of the IETF. The Internet Society Fellowships to the IETF are sponsored by Afilias, Google, NBCUniversal, Microsoft, and Verisign. If you have questions, please do not hesitate to contact Niel Harper < harper@isoc.org>. Regards, ----------------------------- Niel Harper Senior Manager, Next Generation Leaders Programmes Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA Email: harper@isoc.org Skype: OlokunBB *http://www.linkedin.com/in/nielharper * _______________________________________________ Programme-announce-il mailing list Programme-announce-il@elists.isoc.org https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/programme-announce-il --=20 Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --089e0122f37427fa7505118d5a82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

For info.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Niel Harper <harper@isoc.org>
Date: 18 March 2015 at 10:07
Subje= ct: [programme-announce-il] ** Applications Open for Internet Society Fello= wship to IETF 93 (Prague, Czech Republic) **
To: "programme-announce-il@elists.isoc.o= rg" <p= rogramme-announce-il@elists.isoc.org>

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BDear Colleagues,

The Internet S= ociety has announced that it is inviting applications for its latest Intern= et Society Fellowships to the IETF.=C2=A0 The Fellowship programme allows e= ngineers from emerging and developing economies to attend an Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) meeting.

As you know, t= he IETF is the Internet's premier standards-making body, responsible fo= r the development of protocols used in IP-based networks. IETF participants= represent an international community of network designers, operators, vendors, and researchers involved in the = technical operation of the Internet and the continuing evolution of Interne= t architecture.

Fellowships will be awarded throug= h a competitive application process. The Internet Society is currently acce= pting fellowship applications for the IETF 93 in=C2=A0Prague, Czech Republic:

* IETF 93, July 19-24, 2015, Prague, Czech Republic.<= /font>

Information and links to apply can be found at:=C2=A0= http://www.inter= netsociety.org= /fellows-ietf

Fellowship applications will close on 5 April, 2015.<= /font>

I encourage yo= u to apply or pass this information about this program to individuals invol= ved in your network that have a keen interest in the Internet protocol deve= lopment activities of the IETF.

The Internet S= ociety Fellowships to the IETF are sponsored by Afilias, Google, NBCUnivers= al,=C2=A0Microsoft, and Verisign.

If you have questions, please do not hesitate to cont= act=C2=A0Niel Harper <harper@isoc.org>.

Regards,

-----------------------------

Niel Harper

Senior Manager, = Next Generation Leaders Programmes

Internet Society=

1775 Wiehle Aven= ue

Reston, VA

Email:=C2=A0harper@isoc.org=

Skype:=C2=A0Olok= unBB

ht= tp://www.linkedin.com/in/nielharper

_______________________________________________
Programme-announce-il mailing list
Programme-announce= -il@elists.isoc.org
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/programme-announ= ce-il

Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4= D Lab: ht= tp://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d

--089e0122f37427fa7505118d5a82-- From nobody Wed Mar 18 04:57:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9DB31A005D for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:57:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.314 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.314 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1.813, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ey9UfoUFAsEW for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com (nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com [17.158.88.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3B131A004B for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.94] (115.115.75.178.static-Bangalore.tcl.net.in [115.115.75.178]) by nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NLE000LXP6YP750@nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com> for gaia@irtf.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:57:04 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-03-18_04:2015-03-18,2015-03-18,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1503180109 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A60AA768-10D1-4E35-99F4-79CFAE34AC34" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 $2070.6$) From: Jim Forster In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:26:57 +0530 Message-id: <74B28329-FA09-4870-BB7A-C1324B980E30@mac.com> References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org>

To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Jane Coffin Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:57:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A60AA768-10D1-4E35-99F4-79CFAE34AC34 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Apologies in advance for a bit of levity and an embedded GIF=E2=80=A6 > On Mar 16, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan = wrote: >=20 > Its interesting indeed - pl see the pricing plans: > https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/ = >=20 > So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- but then the = speeds are pretty good too..I am really curious to know how they make = money :) One response is: =E2=80=9CIf you are not paying for the product, then = *you* are the product=E2=80=9D. =20 > and would this plan work in a developing region? Putting aside the philanthropic efforts, which don=E2=80=99t seem to = scale to millions of people, let along billions, then I think the = analysis is this: If the service provider has a producer surplus in = related market, then sure. I.E., if you=E2=80=99re making lots of money = in advertising it makes sense to cross-subsidize access. Exaggerating graphically: Jim --Apple-Mail=_A60AA768-10D1-4E35-99F4-79CFAE34AC34 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1E8D6419-5A63-446A-BE85-E42019A49D23" --Apple-Mail=_1E8D6419-5A63-446A-BE85-E42019A49D23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Apologies in advance for a bit of levity and an embedded = GIF=E2=80=A6

On = Mar 16, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Its interesting = indeed - pl see the pricing plans:
https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/

So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- = but then the speeds are pretty good too..I am really curious to know how = they make money :)

One response is: =E2=80=9CIf you are not paying for the = product, then *you* are the product=E2=80=9D.

and would this plan = work in a developing region?

Putting aside the philanthropic efforts, which = don=E2=80=99t seem to scale to millions of people, let along billions, = then I think the analysis is this: If the service provider has a = producer surplus in related market, then sure. I.E., if you=E2=80=99= re making lots of money in advertising it makes sense to cross-subsidize = access.

Exaggerating = graphically:

Jim

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/j9WhR51Z+Fn2QAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --Apple-Mail=_1E8D6419-5A63-446A-BE85-E42019A49D23-- --Apple-Mail=_A60AA768-10D1-4E35-99F4-79CFAE34AC34-- From nobody Wed Mar 18 05:16:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76561A00A7 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 05:16:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qd1r4ggfevrw for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 05:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0605.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::605]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D45D1A0060 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 05:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.16) by BLUPR06MB145.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.106.15; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:16:10 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) by BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.102]) with mapi id 15.01.0112.000; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:16:09 +0000 From: Jane Coffin To: Jim Forster , Arjuna Sathiaseelan Thread-Topic: [gaia] Google Project Blank Thread-Index: AQHQXFDTw3z/csto9k+/NWxq16Srwp0YEGkAgAZybQCAADR2AIAAVPIAgAMgZICAABYbAA== Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:16:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54F7F370.1060801@seu.edu.cn> <5500CBC5.9050009@acm.org>

<74B28329-FA09-4870-BB7A-C1324B980E30@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <74B28329-FA09-4870-BB7A-C1324B980E30@mac.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [217.75.75.237] authentication-results: mac.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-antispam-report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(377454003)(24454002)(46102003)(99286002)(122556002)(93886004)(15975445007)(36756003)(19627595001)(106116001)(62966003)(17760045003)(102836002)(19617315012)(19580405001)(40100003)(50986999)(18206015028)(76176999)(54356999)(99936001)(83506001)(77156002)(19580395003)(92566002)(2950100001)(16236675004)(87936001)(86362001)(66066001)(2656002)(7059030); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; H:BLUPR06MB148.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5002010)(5005006); SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR06MB145; x-forefront-prvs: 051900244E Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_D12F2A941EB75coffinisocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Mar 2015 12:16:09.5095 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR06MB145 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:16:34 -0000 --_004_D12F2A941EB75coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D12F2A941EB75coffinisocorg_" --_000_D12F2A941EB75coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was mulling over this x-subsidization issue this morning. That was the lightning rod for many regulators to come in and regulate. I think many new companies would be wise to look at some past history and r= ealize that they may be target of an SMP proceeding. Makes my head hurt th= inking about the ramifications for other parts of the infrastructure. From: Jim Forster > Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 12:56 PM To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Cc: Jane >, gaia > Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project Blank Apologies in advance for a bit of levity and an embedded GIF... On Mar 16, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan > wrote: Its interesting indeed - pl see the pricing plans: https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/ So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- but then the speeds a= re pretty good too..I am really curious to know how they make money :) One response is: "If you are not paying for the product, then *you* are the= product". and would this plan work in a developing region? Putting aside the philanthropic efforts, which don't seem to scale to milli= ons of people, let along billions, then I think the analysis is this: If th= e service provider has a producer surplus in related market, then sure. I.= E., if you're making lots of money in advertising it makes sense to cross-s= ubsidize access. Exaggerating graphically: [cid:9DA07839-9D5F-4BAA-9A6B-C72285919F76] Jim --_000_D12F2A941EB75coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <49A3AD7FE5B8F343BB55D6E4448EBAD6@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was mulling over this x-subsidization issue this morning.

That was the lightning rod for many regulators to come in and regulate= .

I think many new companies would be wise to look at some past history = and realize that they may be target of an SMP proceeding. Makes my he= ad hurt thinking about the ramifications for other parts of the infrastruct= ure.

From: Jim Forster <jrforster@mac.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at = 12:56 PM
To: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.= uk>
Cc: Jane <coffin@isoc.org>, gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Google Project = Blank

Apologies in advance for a bit of levity and an embedded GIF…

On Mar 16, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseela= n@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Its interesting indeed - pl see the pricing plans:

https:/= /fiber.google.com/cities/provo/plans/

So they charge a setup fee but no monthly usage fee-- but then the speeds a= re pretty good too..I am really curious to know how they make money := )

One response is: “If you are not paying for the product, then *you* a= re the product”.

and would this plan work in a developing region?

Putting aside the philanthropic efforts, which don’t seem to sca= le to millions of people, let along billions, then I think the analysis is = this: If the service provider has a producer surplus in related market, the= n sure. I.E., if you’re making lots of money in advertising it makes sense to cross-subsidize access.

Exaggerating graphically:

Jim

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Received: from mail-wg0-x235.google.com (mail-wg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B25C1A895C for ; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgdm6 with SMTP id m6so83325900wgd.2 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:40:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=PMIgXVjrHqgZZ9/d+WLPHfYbGLy5XLghUfaiWkKNPjc=; b=mTFd4zndB9x832Sc45LkWUWK5hLMnq4rCzGzIUWhckPiwUVouVVV6mpihClNOhwzeE CRpepMvzPPjEJnvrZwdIC6LrO9lIbG1hGjk59+Med7jjivK0KqEPcJbvj3HJrDo/Q8ws F26ity8SbG0o18M6EVhnxspGpDyEmJNOph44sZl7mCFor/9MhWAf4ylM5OoVjQV4NiUI z4toytWd+0m4U5uZcdEkQu1jlEvtgoxR7rJ+E0yZu51xWO39qJG/cAXiELENsMOZ9/k6 JM2Bo/KRlpZxY9i+SZCmjjhqXB4KXEju3pDEAmAv7Zlz+jJWdj+n9KpIZuAIPZOw2Vrf Cbfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.170.193 with SMTP id ao1mr159842830wjc.52.1426840851380; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.175.1 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:40:51 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yWP4LNA0_TAJIlIyV61qvWE1MR0 Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f37418ffbf0511b44653 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Dagstuhl Seminar Report: Towards an Affordable Internet Access for Everyone: The Quest for Enabling Universal Service Commitment X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:40:55 -0000 --089e0122f37418ffbf0511b44653 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 All - Many of you asked for the report during the DEV in December - it has just got published and its here: http://drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2015/4971/pdf/dagrep_v004_i011_p078_s14471.pdf Regards -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --089e0122f37418ffbf0511b44653 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All -=C2=A0

Many of you asked for the report during th= e DEV in December - it has just got published and its here:

http://drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2015/4971/pdf/da= grep_v004_i011_p078_s14471.pdf

Regards

Arjuna Sathi= aseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.u= k/~as2330/n4d

--089e0122f37418ffbf0511b44653-- From nobody Mon Mar 23 11:53:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D381AD23D for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:49:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4EKZeaEljMmg for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbox.sics.se (outbox.sics.se [193.10.64.137]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4043B1AD069 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e-mailfilter01.sunet.se (e-mailfilter01.sunet.se [192.36.171.201]) by outbox.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E164DDBCE for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:49:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from norm.sics.se (norm.sics.se [193.10.64.192]) by e-mailfilter01.sunet.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id t2NImrpg019952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:48:53 +0100 Received: from [10.15.29.234] (unknown [128.127.104.85]) by norm.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 142221E2 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:48:52 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Lindgren Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6A8B5B88-E803-47FC-82FC-821CDE22D3BC@sics.se> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:48:52 +0100 To: gaia@irtf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.6$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 5, tokens from: outbound, outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default, @@RPTN) X-p0f-Info: os=Linux 2.2.x-3.x, link=Ethernet or modem X-CanIt-Geo: ip=128.127.104.85; country=SE; latitude=59.3294; longitude=18.0686; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.3294,18.0686&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outbound-sics-se:outbound (inherits from outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 09O76MRCT - 10c18fc7a2fb - 20150323 X-Antispam-Training-Forget: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09O76MRCT&m=10c18fc7a2fb&t=20150323&c=f X-Antispam-Training-Nonspam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09O76MRCT&m=10c18fc7a2fb&t=20150323&c=n X-Antispam-Training-Spam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09O76MRCT&m=10c18fc7a2fb&t=20150323&c=s X-CanIt-Archive-Cluster: PfMRe/vJWMiXwM2YIH5BVExnUnw Received-SPF: neutral (e-mailfilter01.sunet.se: 128.127.104.85 is neither permitted nor denied by domain andersl@sics.se) receiver=e-mailfilter01.sunet.se; client-ip=128.127.104.85; envelope-from=; helo=norm.sics.se; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.36.171.201 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:53:38 -0700 Subject: [gaia] CFP ExtremeCom 2015 - The Savannah Expedition X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:49:21 -0000 Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP. The ExtremeCom conference series is now in its 7th year, and the scope = of the conference fits very well with much of the work that is done = within the GAIA research group. Thus, we strongly encourage you to submit your results to the conference = as it always provides a good venue for discussing your work and get good = feedback and experience new environments. Hope to see you in Kenya in = August! Cheers, /Anders and Ben ****************************************************************** CALL FOR PAPERS AND DEMOS Extreme Conference on Communication and Computing - The Savannah = Expedition ExtremeCom 2015 3-7 August 2015, Kenya http://www.extremecom.org/ ****************************************************************** Scope ----- The Extreme Conference on Communication and Computing (ExtremeCom) = brings together researchers and practitioners in areas related to = communications in rural, remote or other extreme environments, and computing in extreme operating conditions such as extreme temperatures and energy = constraints, extreme quantities ("big data"), extremely large-scale systems, and = extreme levels of threat and uncertainty, in order to gain experience and = insight into the challenges that such environments pose for the network and the = users. We welcome a broad range of topics concerning both technical and = economical aspects, for example wireless communication, mobile computing, low power devices and protocols, delay tolerant networks and other networking = paradigms, distributed computing paradigms, big data, distributed systems, cloud computing, business and services models, user experiences and web applications. Researches addressing computing challenges in general = mobile environments (even not completely extreme) are also welcomed by the conference. Following on from the success of ExtremeCom 2009 - The Midnight Sun = Expedition in Laponia, Sweden, ExtremeCom 2010 - The Himalayan Expedition in = Dharamsala, India, ExtremeCom 2011 - The Amazon Expedition in Manaus, Brazil, = ExtremeCom 2012 - The Swiss Alps Winter Expedition in Zurich, Switzerland, = ExtremeCom 2013 - The Volcanic Expedition in the Eyjafjallaj=F6kull Volcano region = in Iceland, and ExtremeCom 2015 - The Galapagos Expedition in Ecuador, we = present the ExtremeCom 2015 edition: The Savannah Expedition. The conference = will start with 3 days of excursions in the amazing nature of the Kenyan = savannah. Along the way, participants will get to see and experience the varying landscape and its plant and animal life. Additionally, we will visit = existing deployments of networked systems in the area and learn from their = experience. The immersion will not only give a better idea of both the technical and = user requirements of such a harsh environment, but it will also give many opportunities for informal research discussions between the = participants. Participants that have their own software for scenarios like this will = also, to as great an extent as possible, be encouraged to test and demonstrate = it within this environment. After the excursions, there will be two days of = paper presentations and demos. Focus will still be on informal research = discussions, with the hope that the field experience will give participants the = ability to discuss the topics in a new light. ****************************************************************** Important dates --------------- Submission deadline: May 21, 2015 Notification of acceptance: June 7, 2015 Early registration deadline: July 1, 2015 Registration deadline: July 15, 2015 Conference dates: August 3-7, 2015 (tentative dates) ****************************************************************** Submission Guidelines --------------------- Participants should submit 6 page papers about ideas and visions about = the topics of the conference or demo proposals to be shown during the = conference. Visionary and thought-provoking papers that are likely to generate much discussion during the conference are especially solicited. The aim of = the conference is to maintain an informal environment, where new research = ideas can be discussed and developed. We also hope to have a demo session = where participants can show their implementations and systems. If you want to = show a demo, please submit a 2 page demo proposal using the same submission = system as for conference papers. Accepted papers will be published in the ACM = Digital Library. A selected set of top submissions will be fast-tracked to a = special issue in a reputed SCI/E journal. We only accept PDF files, no greater than 6 pages in length (2 pages for = the demos), including text, figures and references. Manuscripts should use = the ACM templates (for LaTeX, please use Option 2 files), with 9pt fonts. Topics for the conference include, but are not limited to: ---------------------------------------------------------- * Testbeds for large-scale sustainable testing of moobile communication = systems * Real deployments of networks in extreme environments * Business and service models for networks in rural, remote, and other challenging environments * Delay tolerant networking * User experience research * Big data research such as mining and modeling of mobility and social = network * Cloud computing for extreme scalability * Mesh networks and sensor networks * Low-power and intermittent-power protocols * Mechanisms for emergency and urgent communications * Distributed computing for mobile environments * Networked applications and services * Operating system and middleware support for mobile computing and = networking * Security, privacy, and trustworthiness of extreme communications * Underwater networking * Robotic communications and mobile augmented reality Due to logistics, the number of participants will be limited. Priority = will be given to authors of papers and those who register first. ****************************************************************** Organizers ****************************************************************** General co-chairs: ------------------ Pan Hui, HKUST, Hong Kong Anders Lindgren, SICS Swedish ICT, Sweden Local organization: ------------------- Paul Birkelo, BRCK=20 Erik Hersman, BRCK=20 Ken Banks, kiwanja.net=20 Publicity and publication chair: -------------------------------- Dimitris Chatzopoulos, HKUST, Hong Kong Web chair: ---------- Fehmi Ben Abdesslem, SICS Swedish ICT, Sweden Technical Program Committee: ---------------------------- Panayotis Antoniadis, ETH Z=FCrich, Switzerland Elwyn Davies, Folly Consulting, UK Michael Doering, Bosch Research, Germany Marco Fiore, CNR, Italy Christine Julien, University of Texas at Austin, USA James Kwok, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Hong Kong Franck Legendre, Uepaa AG, Switzerland J=F6rg Ott, Aalto University, Finland Zhonghong Ou, Aalto University, Finland Arjuna Sathiaseelan, University of Cambridge, UK Jan Seedorf, NEC Labs, Germany Klaus Wehrle, RWTH Aachen University, Germany Lars Wolf, TU Braunschweig, Germany Pei Zhang, Carnegie Mellon University, USA Steering Committee: ------------------- Jon Crowcroft, University of Cambridge, UK Avri Doria, USA Tristan Henderson, University of St. Andrews, UK Pan Hui, HKUST, Hong Kong Anders Lindgren, SICS Swedish ICT, Sweden From nobody Tue Mar 24 13:29:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC601A00BE for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eugeKqt94QXP for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0073.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9263A1A00B6 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:802b:591a:e378:e96b] (2001:67c:370:176:802b:591a:e378:e96b) by DM2PR06MB606.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.177.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.106.15; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:29:02 +0000 From: Matthew Ford Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:28:48 -0500 To: gaia Message-ID: <21EB84CE-03E2-4DD5-94B0-F6BDC0198447@isoc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 $2070.6$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) X-Originating-IP: [2001:67c:370:176:802b:591a:e378:e96b] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR08CA0010.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (25.161.12.20) To DM2PR06MB606.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.177.19) Authentication-Results: irtf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR06MB606; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(107886001)(450100001)(122386002)(50226001)(229853001)(110136001)(87976001)(15975445007)(40100003)(77096005)(36756003)(77156002)(50986999)(62966003)(57306001)(92566002)(33656002)(86362001)(42186005)(97756001)(83716003)(47776003)(19580395003)(82746002)(46406003)(23726002)(46102003)(50466002)(3826002)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR06MB606; H:[IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:802b:591a:e378:e96b]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(5002010); SRVR:DM2PR06MB606; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR06MB606; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0525BB0ADF X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Mar 2015 20:29:02.4713 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR06MB606 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Facebook release Augmented Traffic Control tool X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe:

--089e0122f3744cab7105122e1757-- From nobody Thu Mar 26 07:37:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986391A0118 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:37:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jOPHIMxn_uAd for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA0531ACECC for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2QEaSfG027067; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:36:28 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-b383.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.179.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2QEaOGs026989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:36:27 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:36:23 -0000 Message-ID: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdBn0eqqX3NTcV85SDWcg+f2E3xx7A== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21426.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--7.727-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--7.727-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: SfLIqAdrccVnbxlBLir0nFu4M/xm4KZezJHaSc2zFBHeUmhIcPpKYJ86 Aq5xuMizNljT08TbtcnP/K96GLBWVNOuuToeehFvxOn/W/avbxNt3qsaFY4DBHH+NJSyqjxjXvb V/VnUv0psoCeTVwVP/4ZzSsHoKXpvFpz5StGPHH6zI1v7J4hECuWh7zDNxP+k0mAM2eipqlpZMU fzivhwNAhLlRep7kgxkZOl7WKIImq0P2qkGU0XygtuKBGekqUpI/NGWt0UYPCsOwC/ldDoyIQ9Z NAe4rIe3iMjjWTuolND7qq5G8gCgdrm0qI/WtFn Archived-At: Cc: manet-chairs@tools.ietf.org, Alvaro Retana Subject: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:37:02 -0000 Hi, The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of protocols to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR. The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is looking at things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they are discussing on their list manet@ietf.org On the list is: > Interaction with GAIA (IRTF) Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert real protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a number of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think about what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting with, and insert these topics into the MANET discussion. The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you think. The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to proxy for you. Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come to some conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself cause the protocol work to be done. Cheers, Adrian From nobody Thu Mar 26 08:15:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545521A0235 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:15:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JHjzt4wJHumt for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0637.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::637]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E840C1A00F1 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [193.147.53.169] (193.147.53.169) by AM3PR02MB310.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.141.47.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.125.19; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:14:44 +0000 Message-ID: <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:14:40 +0100 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Javier_Sim=F3?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [193.147.53.169] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR06CA0060.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (25.162.49.28) To AM3PR02MB310.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.141.47.141) Authentication-Results: irtf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR02MB310; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6049001)(6009001)(479174004)(76104003)(51704005)(50466002)(46102003)(86362001)(50986999)(76176999)(77096005)(15975445007)(74482002)(62966003)(110136001)(450100001)(77156002)(40100003)(107886001)(2351001)(122386002)(36756003)(54356999)(65816999)(87266999)(66066001)(65806001)(65956001)(42186005)(23746002)(19580405001)(19580395003)(92566002)(47776003)(117636001)(87976001)(64126003)(83506001)(2950100001)(3940600001)(62816006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR02MB310; H:[193.147.53.169]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(5002010); SRVR:AM3PR02MB310; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM3PR02MB310; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0527DFA348 X-OriginatorOrg: urjc.es X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2015 15:14:44.6052 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR02MB310 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:15:05 -0000 I would appreciate very much that the folks working in community networks activate themselves in this topic! Since I did some tests with OLSR-ETX 10 years ago I haven't dedicated much work to this kind of protocols but I have followed in the distance what some do with Batman-adv, other with BMX6... I guess that we have the opportunity to have more people thinking with us in our problems, in our scenarios. However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile Ad-hoc NETworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. Static ad-hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not sure about mobile. What do you think? El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi�: > Hi, > > The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of protocols > to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR. > > The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is looking at > things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they are > discussing on their list manet@ietf.org On the list is: > >> Interaction with GAIA (IRTF) > Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert real > protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a number > of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think about > what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting with, > and insert these topics into the MANET discussion. > > The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you think. > The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to proxy > for you. > Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come to some > conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself cause the > protocol work to be done. > > Cheers, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > . > -- --------------------------------------------------- Fco. Javier Sim� Reigadas Subdirector de Ord. Docente ETS de Ingenier�a de Telecomunicaci�n D-204, Departamental III Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo From nobody Thu Mar 26 10:47:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A14B1AD36E for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.723 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZNGFinl3Z5B0 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22c.google.com (mail-wi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4639E1A8F43 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibgn9 with SMTP id gn9so96331670wib.1 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wXqTcvXAX/rmeY9fHWRg41R/D1NIy0IiQzZNHAWT3sE=; b=CnW6lZYfxIiIctaFsv/jZKxQgiQbIIk6zoNXCsUIaOy3EjJkNDXhVCX3E2QiwbKeAO gwfl5sjPlshwfj+djFrFRXJA2kn2M0b4xyb3yP9/sAuwfDeDeZHnXJcFFgmfNKthEbCD m37Pa9G/vgRau3UTAJrsz5PzNLQp1Vs1KuKAvDdX8Nh6wmKHQK5f1SDT33SqGdROwNjz XIMVIj2txZ3yyx0EVSndkxU3TPAeyZUR/aSptull+uJCjyyNNdk+OvpjYgU9Oy98PRUa 4KO96BQZMGdbN45ftwgZlbojIMc/tzKOqOfvCyljYO4IpqWxdSUysqghBYBxFaOUTRr+ Zdfw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.9.47 with SMTP id w15mr47014030wia.13.1427392027028; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.175.1 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.175.1 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:47:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> References: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:47:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b0q3V-ZjATUYc7hrVxoWoTNxKMo Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: =?UTF-8?B?SmF2aWVyIFNpbcOz?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c24adeb9f2690512349a7d Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:47:10 -0000 --001a11c24adeb9f2690512349a7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's quite a lot of momentum within GAIA in the area of decentralised networks e.g.community networks, diy networks including opportunistic.. So i think there will be interest within GAIA to explore this with MANET.. On 26 Mar 2015 15:15, "Javier Sim=C3=B3" wrote: > I would appreciate very much that the folks working in community networks > activate themselves in this topic! Since I did some tests with OLSR-ETX 1= 0 > years ago I haven't dedicated much work to this kind of protocols but I > have followed in the distance what some do with Batman-adv, other with > BMX6... I guess that we have the opportunity to have more people thinking > with us in our problems, in our scenarios. > > However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile Ad-hoc > NETworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. Static > ad-hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not sure about > mobile. What do you think? > > > El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi=C3=B3: > >> Hi, >> >> The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of >> protocols >> to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR= . >> >> The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is >> looking at >> things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they a= re >> discussing on their list manet@ietf.org On the list is: >> >> Interaction with GAIA (IRTF) >>> >> Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert re= al >> protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a >> number >> of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think >> about >> what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting >> with, >> and insert these topics into the MANET discussion. >> >> The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you >> think. >> The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to >> proxy >> for you. >> Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come >> to some >> conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself >> cause the >> protocol work to be done. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> . >> >> > -- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Fco. Javier Sim=C3=B3 Reigadas > Subdirector de Ord. Docente > ETS de Ingenier=C3=ADa de Telecomunicaci=C3=B3n > D-204, Departamental III > Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) > Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 > Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > --001a11c24adeb9f2690512349a7d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There's quite a lot of momentum within GAIA in the area = of decentralised networks e.g.community networks, diy networks including op= portunistic..

So i think there will be interest within GAIA to explore thi= s with MANET..

On 26 Mar 2015 15:15, "Javier Sim=C3=B3&quo= t; <javier.simo@urjc.es> w= rote:

I would apprec= iate very much that the folks working in community networks activate themse= lves in this topic! Since I did some tests with OLSR-ETX 10 years ago I hav= en't dedicated much work to this kind of protocols but I have followed = in the distance what some do with Batman-adv, other with BMX6... I guess th= at we have the opportunity to have more people thinking with us in our prob= lems, in our scenarios.

However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile Ad-hoc NE= Tworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. Static ad-= hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not sure about mobi= le. What do you think?

El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi=C3=B3:

Hi,

The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of pr= otocols
to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR.
The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is looking= at
things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they are<= br> discussing on their list manet@ietf.org=C2=A0 On the list is:

Interaction with GAIA (IRTF)

Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert real<= br> protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a num= ber
of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think abou= t
what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting wit= h,
and insert these topics into the MANET discussion.

The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you thi= nk.
The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to pr= oxy
for you.
Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come to = some
conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself c= ause the
protocol work to be done.

Cheers,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
.

--

---------------------------------------------------
Fco. Javier Sim=C3=B3 Reigadas <javier.simo@urjc.es>
Subdirector de Ord. Docente
ETS de Ingenier=C3=ADa de Telecomunicaci=C3=B3n
D-204, Departamental III
Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid)
Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500
Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--001a11c24adeb9f2690512349a7d-- From nobody Thu Mar 26 10:50:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8470B1B29AA for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.423 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mJQa5DNhDuWC for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22c.google.com (mail-ob0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0C751AD36E for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obcxo2 with SMTP id xo2so3483866obc.0 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=JXBQj2OPnY0u9pE+/g8Vt0GHa0KXm53GLOSqjZNXERw=; b=J8gaubV/xbmme6EBwE7GmX3G0sB3nqfgTdwY5lkvyynf8AxoXRu1SJBBd7PIBmmiGr cFgMWjJWiF118d6raIzNvD1BoKwAcs26W4HzRUZLhwLzcZPgR3t5DJv15uNeD3Tj/gG9 3/C97g5zc5c5ODOcLM1gj/Uh2MgJsLrC63Hd3dnaBwsBTkT9DGSaH1MC53a3I4ibePBk lOJkluliQe++kc44FxB07cKzPajjN5hHhMa2t+4FvbOYlWwbtKKeq2nKqbtZ+QON9svc JwZhtwZALpm91lcCh6RpboCmxH/2DkVPgSStpjxlAPr4Qv2TcBaXDsr3W4Oswasx+Cfi Txlg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.242.106 with SMTP id wp10mr12850007obc.14.1427392205102; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.121.135 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> References: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:50:05 -0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ydpRMft7ssM7J6QoOWlyab1zhac Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff2521a5724fa051234a544 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:50:15 -0000 --e89a8ff2521a5724fa051234a544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Village Telco has been using the batman-adv mesh protocol for the last five years or so and we're very happy with it. While it is a little bit of a mind-shift to think of mesh networking at layer 2, we really appreciate the benefits which are a zero-configuration, NAT-less wireless mesh that can be set up out of the box and plugged into any upstream Internet connection the same way that you might plug in a switch. I am not suggesting that batman-adv is inherently better than OLSR, BMX6 or others, it just happens to work very well for our needs. Regards... Steve On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Javier Sim=C3=B3 wr= ote: > I would appreciate very much that the folks working in community networks > activate themselves in this topic! Since I did some tests with OLSR-ETX 1= 0 > years ago I haven't dedicated much work to this kind of protocols but I > have followed in the distance what some do with Batman-adv, other with > BMX6... I guess that we have the opportunity to have more people thinking > with us in our problems, in our scenarios. > > However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile Ad-hoc > NETworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. Static > ad-hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not sure about > mobile. What do you think? > > > El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi=C3=B3: > >> Hi, >> >> The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of >> protocols >> to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR= . >> >> The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is >> looking at >> things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they a= re >> discussing on their list manet@ietf.org On the list is: >> >> Interaction with GAIA (IRTF) >>> >> Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert re= al >> protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a >> number >> of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think >> about >> what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting >> with, >> and insert these topics into the MANET discussion. >> >> The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you >> think. >> The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to >> proxy >> for you. >> Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come >> to some >> conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself >> cause the >> protocol work to be done. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> . >> >> > -- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Fco. Javier Sim=C3=B3 Reigadas > Subdirector de Ord. Docente > ETS de Ingenier=C3=ADa de Telecomunicaci=C3=B3n > D-204, Departamental III > Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) > Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 > Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > --e89a8ff2521a5724fa051234a544 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Village Telco has been using the ba= tman-adv mesh protocol for the last five years or so and we're very hap= py with it.=C2=A0 While it is a little bit of a mind-shift to think of mesh= networking at layer 2, we really appreciate the benefits which are a zero-= configuration, NAT-less wireless mesh that can be set up out of the box and= plugged into any upstream Internet connection the same way that you might = plug in a switch.=C2=A0 I am not suggesting that batman-adv is inherently b= etter than OLSR, BMX6 or others, it just happens to work very well for our = needs.

Regards... Steve

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM= , Javier Sim=C3=B3 <javier.simo@urjc.es> wrote:
I would appreciate very much that the folks working= in community networks activate themselves in this topic! Since I did some = tests with OLSR-ETX 10 years ago I haven't dedicated much work to this = kind of protocols but I have followed in the distance what some do with Bat= man-adv, other with BMX6... I guess that we have the opportunity to have mo= re people thinking with us in our problems, in our scenarios.

However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile Ad-hoc NE= Tworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. Static ad-= hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not sure about mobi= le. What do you think?

El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi=C3=B3:

Hi,

The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of pr= otocols
to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is OLSR.
The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is looking= at
things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that they are<= br> discussing on their list manet@ietf.org=C2=A0 On the list is:

Interaction with GAIA (IRTF)

Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to insert real<= br> protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access in a num= ber
of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please think abou= t
what you have discovered is useful and what you have been experimenting wit= h,
and insert these topics into the MANET discussion.

The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what you thi= nk.
The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible AD to pr= oxy
for you.
Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to come to = some
conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of itself c= ause the
protocol work to be done.

Cheers,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
.

--

---------------------------------------------------
Fco. Javier Sim=C3=B3 Reigadas <javier.simo@urjc.es>
Subdirector de Ord. Docente
ETS de Ingenier=C3=ADa de Telecomunicaci=C3=B3n
D-204, Departamental III
Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid)
Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500
Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https:= //irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--e89a8ff2521a5724fa051234a544-- From nobody Thu Mar 26 10:56:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98DB1AD072 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xvh-lYYPcLtC for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD8231A8BBD for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2QHtvmK029954; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:55:57 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-b383.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.179.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2QHttmi029933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:55:56 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'Javier_Sim=F3'?=" , References: <010201d067d2$3de5ae40$b9b10ac0$@olddog.co.uk> <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> In-Reply-To: <55142260.4070104@urjc.es> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:55:53 -0000 Message-ID: <025901d067ee$1ba4d8d0$52ee8a70$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQG/fZZl/simr1soEtGh6GaY7at8FQGj0VGInUPBpOA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21428.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--26.263-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--26.263-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: PL66URbwWA92ayBf7eIhEIxVBvj1jbcjy5CH5L6Hm2vSYAzZ6KmqWqeD MMTMTnyAJEjSN50pbh7xTwx4UJIMcpZi5ANFx2WRy18e5+drKgYZskwWqoib3NQ7R95qD2m5ika 0Ka6FTusZcUOulHhYUxn1V9GHCTqCVQ7O/4REy+uT3+xUiouIAFQQ0EgzIoPRnmT4H7Ihzd3Qws 8OFDbC+wERJRNsmZvz7NXnQMwxcv1Enh8FeYne0GzBijri5+RV5Y/q/ceKYaue9toQ6h6LE6XNs YCQGOi6qw+8s/Y7Pb3U8WoH9BtysNOuuToeehFvxOn/W/avbxNt3qsaFY4DBHH+NJSyqjxjXvbV /VnUv0rk9ECJvRZmskMb/svDwZNi3Mfe2WVWXDJ5TJVlfiK+u+8lj2kHOCDUSYPLE090cxcONnC OtDoJBbJVaLhP+2nCBMQG4qfwjMDa57wa5zSxJMjz0VPUnBA1+ccIIOk4Y44z91mDYZLM5ZL73W 3BBZ7r72f1jC4WePx/JgN7Aw6tAHczv8nPF99x3QfwsVk0UbslCGssfkpInQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:56:00 -0000 Javier, The M in MANET is certainly for mobile. But the mobility is not = necessary (or maybe "zero" is a special case of "some" :-) In practice, mobility is a special case of link variation and the = protocols are designed for link variation. Thus, "ad hoc". Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Javier Sim=F3 > Sent: 26 March 2015 15:15 > To: gaia@irtf.org > Subject: Re: [gaia] MANET working group re-chartering discussion >=20 > I would appreciate very much that the folks working in community > networks activate themselves in this topic! Since I did some tests = with > OLSR-ETX 10 years ago I haven't dedicated much work to this kind of > protocols but I have followed in the distance what some do with > Batman-adv, other with BMX6... I guess that we have the opportunity to > have more people thinking with us in our problems, in our scenarios. >=20 > However, most of our scenarios are not mobile. MANET means Mobile = Ad-hoc > NETworks, and our solutions have to be tailored for our scenarios. > Static ad-hoc networks are interesting, DTN are interesting, I am not > sure about mobile. What do you think? >=20 >=20 > El 26/03/15 a las 15:36, Adrian Farrel escribi=F3: > > Hi, > > > > The IETF's MANET working group is responsible for the development of > protocols > > to enable ad hoc networks. Amongst the protocols they look after is = OLSR. > > > > The working group is coming to the end of its chartered work and is = looking at > > things it might do next. They have a long list of candidates that = they are > > discussing on their list manet@ietf.org On the list is: > > > >> Interaction with GAIA (IRTF) > > Although this is quite vague, it is an opportunity for GAIA to = insert real > > protocol work items to improve the availability of Internet access = in a number > > of environments that are relevant to both MANET and GAIA. Please = think about > > what you have discovered is useful and what you have been = experimenting > with, > > and insert these topics into the MANET discussion. > > > > The easiest way is to subscribe to the MANET list and just say what = you think. > > The second option is to use me, the WG chairs, and the responsible = AD to proxy > > for you. > > Just discussing this on the GAIA list may be a good way for you to = come to some > > conclusions about what work you'd like to see, but will not of = itself cause the > > protocol work to be done. > > > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gaia mailing list > > gaia@irtf.org > > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > . > > >=20 > -- >=20 > --------------------------------------------------- > Fco. Javier Sim=F3 Reigadas > Subdirector de Ord. Docente > ETS de Ingenier=EDa de Telecomunicaci=F3n > D-204, Departamental III > Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) > Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 > Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia From nobody Thu Mar 26 10:58:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28CE1A9061 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id db1KIz355Y80 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22a.google.com (mail-wg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E1B61A8793 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbcc7 with SMTP id cc7so72336041wgb.0 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:57:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MLicEZsNY8yN7hoAtCucJIDILvUn2VRfMgigUgbE0Vs=; b=tA71Ztita+pdUWSy6z04VAMOnmElodLi0LLFo+DIcxbLoRH3CvnRWY+ILkco1TVjZf zZblJSZ40gqmlTAWUJKt/7N/k/zyTnfUfU5gIbwmlFxzXJON0k2tVJToeMSxz0DUvxBw OtaGZ5lr5f2R9BTfjZab+tiTY6irU6kEzPkUUm9v5XcA5Em48cEO6Z047IhmFuzonBqX aAifIR7NIerGTD9ebuRHFlelKXlVZizGesz5Nr9RWFfQVvIKl2K7Oo/Y7ucEnyuHZveU rxTR1yTCmcN6zyC0tlk6rMu/i4q/K/IzJ77H6ZSUzPon0eqAa3K8zIZcFa1S7HV1mfU7 bHxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.74.47 with SMTP id q15mr48591773wiv.49.1427392660159; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.175.1 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:57:40 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eUDTf1c0X7heIYCoRWL9V5TJP1k Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be26276c158051234c0e8 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Service Migration in Challenged Networks X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: