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Most of the time it is possible to deduce > > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into > > problems. > > Exactly. 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Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a "proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C805B4.585D97C0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 06:21:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id1MS-0004Wu-FF for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:21:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id1MI-0007cK-8g for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:21:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id1Bk-0009li-Rh for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:10:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.141] (helo=heisenberg.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id1Bh-0009lP-Sl for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:10:43 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Id1Bg-0006Ej-KF for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:10:40 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:10:39 +0100 Message-ID: <01bc01c805a5$a2f691b0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , , "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , References: <200710011906.l91J6cn44824@magenta.juniper.net> Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:57:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2007 10:10:39.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[A65944B0:01C805A5] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Hi Yakov, Could you explain why we would want to adopt draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and if that is a representative application then your scope is identical to the Vasseur draft. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" ; Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document > Deborah and Adrian, > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > in the latest version. > > Yakov. > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 09:44:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id4WV-0004Fy-Rk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:44:23 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id4WV-0001qq-B7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:44:23 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id4NO-000DVV-Q2 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:34:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.60.39.102] (helo=tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id4NM-000DUt-08 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:34:57 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l93DU9O2012231; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD1920B1D0; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:32:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013F320B319; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:27:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l93DRRZj008204; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:27:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l93DRQCV010501; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from imc.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imc0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.141]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l93DRQbj010495; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (psei-ibmx30-apb2.nslab.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.80.23]) by imc.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l93DRMxl018331; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:27:26 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <47039874.4080600@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0900 From: Kohei Shiomoto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Dimitri Papadimitriou , Jean-Louis Le Roux , Martin Vigoureux , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: Last call completed on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt References: <003801c7ffb8$86c94070$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <003801c7ffb8$86c94070$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Hi Adrian Thank you for your comments. We will update the ids on reqs and eval for mln according to ITU's comments and yours. I think that we can start with the mln solution id now. Let me respond to your comments in short... Regarding the renaming the virual TE-link, I would prefer keep it because RFC4397 already defines it. Regarding the adaptaion capabilities in place of switching capabilities, we will clarify it. We will consider the solution in revising the solution i-d. Regarding the virtual node model, it might be a solution to represent the inter-layer connectivity. We will consider it in revising the solution i-d. Anyway we will revise the ids. Thanks, Kohei > Hi, > > Working group last call completed on > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt with a few comments to consider. > > The question was raised about the naming of "virtual TE links." It was > suggested that "potential" be considered as a more appropriate word, > partly because of the existing overload of "virtual" in various > contexts, and partly to tie in with the ASON use of terminology. Could > the authors please think about this and propose a resolution. > > We also received some comments from the ITU-T in their liaison > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/368/. They raise some issues for > our consideration and the authors need to address these points so that > they can update the I-D if necessary, and so we can respond to the ITU-T > as necessary. > > Adaptation > - They suggest that we should include a definition of Adaptation. > - They suggest advertising the adaptation capability/ies of a link in > place of the switching capabilities. I am confused by this because I > would have thought that both pieces of information are needed. It may be > that the ITU-T are assuming that the technology layer is known a priori. > It is certainly the case that multiple switching or adaptation > capabilities should be able to be advertised on a single link, and I > think this is in the I-Ds, but maybe it needs clarification. > - Abstract representations of layers and adaptations may be > advantageous. Although this might be a solution-specific issue, if there > are requirements they should be drawn out. > > Virtual Node > The ITU-T suggests that the virtual node model might be applied as a > solution architecture alongside the virtual links. Maybe the > requirements draft could include some comments on this. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > -- Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan Phone +81 422 59 4402 Fax +81 422 59 3787 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:30:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6BM-0000V8-C7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:30:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6BI-0000us-9Q for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:30:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id619-0004nb-24 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:20:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.18.2.171] (helo=exprod7og58.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id616-0004lV-E2 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:20:05 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob58.obsmtp.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:19:53 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:19:29 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l93FJTn14985; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710031519.l93FJTn14985@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Yakov Rekhter" , "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:57:57 BST." <01bc01c805a5$a2f691b0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5917.1191424769.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:19:29 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2007 15:19:29.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAC0AB60:01C805D0] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Adrian, > Hi Yakov, > > Could you explain why we would want to adopt > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) > rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice). For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable, as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast, draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute. > The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. > Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN. > Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and > if that is a representative application then your scope is identical > to the Vasseur draft. Yakov. > > Thanks, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" > ; > Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" > ; > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM > Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG > document > > > > Deborah and Adrian, > > > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > > in the latest version. > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:51:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6VR-0004VO-6N for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:51:25 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6VM-0001hh-W7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:51:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id6MW-0008bG-Uv for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:42:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id6MU-0008ae-9B for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:42:11 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Id6MS-00071H-Rp for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:42:09 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:42:08 +0100 Message-ID: <029601c805d3$f0dd6a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: References: <200710031519.l93FJTn14985@magenta.juniper.net> Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:41:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2007 15:42:08.0518 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4E89260:01C805D3] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Yakov, >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision >> 03) >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice). I ain't proposing nothin' > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable, > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast, > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute. That is probably a good reason to start with. >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite >> worrying. >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. > > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN. Two questions: 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its applicability to L1VPNs? 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur I-D? Thanks, Adrian From Nejcbarisim@prosper2.com Wed Oct 03 11:57:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6bi-000795-P0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:57:54 -0400 Received: from [84.36.131.104] (helo=[84.36.131.104]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id6be-0006Qz-Oo for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:57:52 -0400 Received: by 10.103.171.15 with SMTP id OAOfzWaUbmwdq; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:57:53 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.125.128 with SMTP id tBYVHjNctgSizY.6020000026971; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:57:51 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c805d6$25627990$68832454@Filomark> From: "Nejc barisim" To: Subject: rotcorpo Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:57:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C805E6.E8EB4990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C805E6.E8EB4990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.sirscastle.com/ Hi there ccamp-archive oh yes, intercourse is alot better now im BIGGER in size Nejc barisim ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C805E6.E8EB4990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C805E6.E8EB4990-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 12:49:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7Pm-0004yc-Ct for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:49:38 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7Pl-0003s3-6H for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:49:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id7Ho-000NIg-J5 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:41:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.23.212.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id7Hl-000NI2-Pu for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:41:23 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.75]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l93GeR2R007268; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:40:27 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:41:18 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:40:37 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380017D1E85@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQ References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Adrian Farrel" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2007 16:41:18.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[38E5AFE0:01C805DC] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb adrian =20 - support -=20 -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed last=20 > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have=20 > more or less=20 > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this=20 > subject, we need to=20 > look for a solutions I-D. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt=20 > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20 > requirements and the=20 > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that=20 > this provides a=20 > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20 > change. >=20 > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20 > become a WG draft. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From bneglect@benhamad.com Wed Oct 03 13:01:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7bS-000187-1z; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:01:42 -0400 Received: from [190.6.195.158] (helo=static.host95158.sulanet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7bL-0000A8-Du; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:01:35 -0400 Received: from Maria ([176.237.98.148]:12502 "HELO Maria" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 9ec306bebenhamad.com with ESMTP id c3BSVRCC138843 (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:01:27 -0600 Message-ID: <001101c805ac$bee372b0$00e3ed24@Maria> From: Deloris Sanchez To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: tprecise Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:01:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C805AC.BEE372B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C805AC.BEE372B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable potential but they can not be generated in real time. Their dimension. Text has given me the knowledge to explore further. tradition? a= nd a walking tour of Market Square, Fantan Alley, ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C805AC.BEE372B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C805F8.457D5890-- From alt@mailusb.com Wed Oct 03 13:15:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7oR-0007if-Oe for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:15:07 -0400 Received: from [125.187.32.247] (helo=m02.mailyes.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id7oQ-0004ez-7g for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:15:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 14176 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 2007 01:36:31 +0900 Message-ID: <20071003163631.14175.qmail@m02.mailyes.net> To: ccamp-archive Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCMGxILzghOncbKEI=?= From: mailsender Reply-to: delivery_rt Date: 2007-10-04 01:30:03 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20071003175631_cbvm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 $B!&!&!&!E!E!D!D(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,!D!D!E!E!&!&!&(B $BFyBN4X78@lLg%3%_%e%K%F%#!<(B!$B:#$9$0CO85$N%[%F%k$XD>9T3N$NCO0h!&%a!<%k%"%I%l%9!&%Q%9%o!<%I$r(B $B@_Dj$7$FD:$-$^$9!#(B ?$B!!$9$k$*Aj%"%I%l%9$,I=<($5$l$F$*$j$^$9$N$G(B $B$=$N;~E@$GD>@\$4O"Mm$r$7$FD:$$$F$b7k9=$G$9$7!"(B $B%5%$%HFb$+$i%a!<%k$K$FO"Mm$rD$7$F2<$5$$!#(B $B!ZCm0U![<+8J(BPR$BFb$KO"Mm@h$NI=<($,L5$$?M:J!&=O=w$5$s$O(B $B!!!!!!!!8r>D$,@.N)$7FyBN4X78Cf$G$9$N$GO"Mm@h$NI=<($,(B $B!!!!!!!!I|3h8e!":FEY8r>D$r$*4j$$CW$7$^$9!#(B $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $B!|K\F|!"CO85$N%*%P%5%s$HFyBN4X78$r4uK>$5$l$kCK@-$O(B $B!!(Bhttp://black-6969.org.uk/pc/index2.php?u9psp4 $B!|K\F|!"2P>H$C$?BN$rK~$?$7$FM_$7$$%*%P%5%s$O(B $B!!(Bhttp://black-6969.org.uk/pc/index2.php?u9psp4 $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $B!zBT9g$o$;$N>l=j$r%j%"%k%?%$%`$G$d$j Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id8S4-0006Qo-1T for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:56:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Id8S3-0001su-G7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:56:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id8JY-0008R0-8v for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:47:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Id8JV-0008Qc-0W for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:47:14 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l93Hkdim072857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:46:38 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment problem. For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be used. In http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. ---snip--- > === > Section 5.2 > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating > another bit to the CS field. > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is > not so improbable. > So, how about... > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > === > --snip-- > The two things you do need in this section are: > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > Label can be used. > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > Generalized Label Object? > === > Section 6.2 > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda > availability is best removed from this I-D. > === > Section 7 > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to > snooping and external control. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C80693.15F24FE0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 03:02:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdKis-0002uT-Qo for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:02:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdKin-0007e5-Ca for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:02:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdKY4-0009TW-NG for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:51:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.60.39.103] (helo=tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdKY2-0009Sv-3Y for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:51:03 +0000 Received: from sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (IDENT:mirapoint@sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.117]) by tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946ooMH013967; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.112]) by sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (MOS 3.8.4-GA) with ESMTP id BDA90789; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946or9W011231; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946orqI005340; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946ormS003273; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from imc.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imc0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.141]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946oqXV003270; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (psei-ibmx30-apb2.nslab.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.80.23]) by imc.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l946ooO2013585; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:50:52 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <47048D01.6000707@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:49:37 +0900 From: Kohei Shiomoto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Hi, Yes, I agree to make it WG document. Kohei > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 03:54:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLXF-0006N8-Fd for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:54:17 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLXF-0000xs-5O for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:54:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLSZ-000EZz-Rq for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:49:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.23.212.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLST-000EZB-Sp for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:49:23 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.77]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l947mNhI011961; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:48:26 +0200 Received: from [172.27.205.178] ([172.27.205.178]) by FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:49:16 +0200 Message-ID: <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:49:09 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2007 07:49:16.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[103A83C0:01C8065B] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Adrian, I do support this I-D. martin Adrian Farrel a �crit : > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 04:01:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLdo-0006kq-AR for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:01:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLdn-0001N5-Vv for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:01:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLWp-000F0G-E6 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:53:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [195.101.245.15] (helo=p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLWm-000Ezc-Gi for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:53:50 +0000 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:53:36 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:53:42 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604E9B875@ftrdmel2> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClkDw49DcWwWvShyoAk9thdMbBgDxUzeQ References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2007 07:53:36.0919 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB80BA70:01C8065B] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Hi all. I support this ID which deserves its WG status. Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi, Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed = last=20 call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less=20 reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we = need to=20 look for a solutions I-D. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-e= xtensions-04.txt=20 has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and = the=20 lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides = a=20 good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20 change. Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG = draft. Thanks, Adrian=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 04:07:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLje-0006YH-RI for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:07:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdLje-0001hx-Fp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:07:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLce-000FZc-3r for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:59:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [195.101.245.16] (helo=p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdLcc-000FZE-18 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:59:50 +0000 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:59:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:59:45 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgGW4jPPhukpQrETJ+bUegeBKqblgAANHWA References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr> From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2007 07:59:48.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[89296B10:01C8065C] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Hi Adrian, all I strongly support this ID, I'm co-author :-) Regards JL=20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] De la part de Martin Vigoureux > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 octobre 2007 09:49 > =C0 : zzx-adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc : ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Objet : Re: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Adrian, >=20 > I do support this I-D. >=20 > martin >=20 >=20 > Adrian Farrel a =E9crit : > > Hi, > >=20 > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed=20 > > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20 > have more or=20 > > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20 > this subject,=20 > > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr > > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and=20 > tracking both=20 > > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the=20 > evaluation draft.=20 > > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in=20 > > CCAMP even if some elements might change. > >=20 > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20 > become a WG draft. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Adrian > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 From CorylexiconGarrett@linksys.com Thu Oct 04 04:39:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdMFA-0001U3-ED for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:39:40 -0400 Received: from 71-17-147-82.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca ([71.17.147.82] helo=sarahdesktop.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdMFA-0002fp-59 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:39:40 -0400 Received: from connote by linksys.com with SMTP id GnjJfdndTt for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 03:38:14 +0600 From: "Harvey Burton" To: Subject: Our safe, secure games Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Free money free fun. 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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C806D9.C0DF51F0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 10:01:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdRGp-0005JW-CJ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:01:43 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdRGo-0001oZ-5q for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:01:43 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdR3b-000OgF-7Z for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:48:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [206.16.17.211] (helo=usaga01-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdR3Y-000Oft-BZ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:48:01 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPE00IRS3NYS6@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Lee736821 ([10.124.12.76]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPE00E7E3NVKE@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:47:40 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft In-reply-to: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: 'Adrian Farrel' Message-id: <000001c8068d$217e7470$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcgClVkzFCsBDceCROWRURkjkEKklAD97UFQ Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 I support this I-D. Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:32 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Proposed new working group draft Hi, Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-exte nsions-04.txt has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change. Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. Thanks, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 11:26:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdSbC-0005iH-6P for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:26:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdSbB-0003Dy-Qa for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:26:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdSS5-000801-Pt for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:17:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdSS2-0007zX-96 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:17:23 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,230,1188792000"; d="scan'208";a="133871169" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Oct 2007 11:17:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l94FHJ2w002590; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:19 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l94FHE2g016806; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:17:19 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.20]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:14 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380017D1E85@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQACqu6SA= From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "Adrian Farrel" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2007 15:17:14.0475 (UTC) FILETIME=[A4CD73B0:01C80699] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1173; t=1191511039; x=1192375039; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Proposed=20new=20working=20group=20draft |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20,=20; bh=cHJJt2j/SNwoeEfoBAVaWT4t7pZgjJ4l+TIb3upiOEs=; b=o+HeQWnpcX7jeyGxocFznFnJ4j5njbh0aYFF268JQQX+gzqc4mJ7WUh8t/T+lU6y/Et/3WpM FhuMzFiSgBPTClww6laoGBya2H8tToWBxsc0lZAkneyNJSxS02C4i3ye; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 - Support -=20 Thanks Regards... Zafar =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM > > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Subject: Proposed new working group draft > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed=20 > > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20 > have more or=20 > > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20 > this subject,=20 > > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >=20 > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20 > requirements and=20 > > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. 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Christofer Elias http://stickmaze.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 16:07:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdWyv-0000xY-Tv for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 16:07:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdWyv-0004SS-Io for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 16:07:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdWpo-000C0X-Ff for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:58:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_HEADERS, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdWpl-000C05-TK for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:58:11 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l94JvtnB094447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <470545C2.9010405@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:57:54 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 I support this becoming a WG draft. I think those interested in VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation capabilities mentioned in the draft. Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. 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Win $$$ instead of throwing it all away at other casinos. http://trynetgambling.net/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 17:24:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdYBT-00034A-Ck for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:24:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdYBR-0001m9-3x for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:24:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdY2O-000IpU-Ri for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:15:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-201.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdY2D-000Imj-L1 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:15:07 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB9D329ED; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 21:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdY2A-0006EI-52; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Author(s) : G. Bernstein, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-10-4 This document describes requirements for, and use of, the Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane in conjunction with the Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) layer 1 inverse multiplexing mechanism and its companion Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) which can be used for hitless dynamic resizing of the inverse multiplex group. These techniques apply to Optical Transport Network (OTN), Synchronous Optical Network (SONET), Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH), and Plesiochronous Digital Hierarchy (PDH) signals. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-4165753.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-4165753.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 19:12:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdZs6-0003fl-Kx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:12:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdZs3-0003w8-SL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:12:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdZkc-0002XG-VP for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:05:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdZkZ-0002WB-EC for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:05:01 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,232,1188792000"; d="scan'208,217";a="133934025" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Oct 2007 19:03:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l94N3wGY013805; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:03:58 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l94N3fcw008450; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:03:50 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:03:49 -0400 Received: from [10.86.104.178] ([10.86.104.178]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:03:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0a8001c805f0$22c11bf0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> References: <200710031851.l93Iptn72353@magenta.juniper.net> <0a8001c805f0$22c11bf0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Message-Id: Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:02:44 -0400 To: Adrian Farrel , Yakov Rekhter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2007 23:03:48.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[D27661F0:01C806DA] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7117; t=1191539038; x=1192403038; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Adrian=20Farrel=20,=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=HysLEW63CoaQI3V0sCbG42w0gIkbUY7BmSx0AI7w9IE=; b=mvWfySJneex3Ysci9m3VyfWAZrIKCwh5tTLX2b46MFu6ruxMqJH7r2d3qw/esJbqTHOAHef5 z57iEYiheC0y+EP78iqIaYKMOJfRQK4dtPZCu+S3Cq0lYXwBSZFyVkxD; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 --Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, Sorry for being late in that thread ... On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>> of the Vasseur I-D? >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > > This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the application ... sounds pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE TE LSP is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). My question here is why would you want to redefine TE TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order to avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of interest. Note that the current Abstract: Abstract This document defines a new BGP attribute, Traffic Engineering attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering information. is fairly general ... "carry Traffic Engineering information". Thanks. JP. > A --Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi,

Sorry for = being late in that thread ...

On Oct 3, 2007, at = 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

2. Could you = conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur = I-D?

In order for me to answer = this question I'd like to get a clear

I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for = him.
Just trying to find out whether = we have two problem spaces or one.

I think the abstract of his I-D = is relatively clear:
=A0 This document proposes MP-BGP = protocol extension so as to convey
=A0 Traffic Engineering Link = characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
=A0 (Customer Edge) links in = order to extend the visibility of the
=A0 Traffic Engineering Database = to those links.=A0 This can = then be used
=A0 to more efficiently compute = CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label

Yakov, let me know if you = need further clarification on the application ... = sounds=A0
pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links = where a CE to CE TE LSP
is needed. The path computation piece = is then very much similar to inter-domain
TE (per domain, PCE, = ...). My question here is why would you want to redefine
TE = TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order = to
avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of = interest.

Note= that the current Abstract:
Abstract

=A0=A0 This document defines a new BGP attribute, = Traffic Engineering
=A0=A0 = attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering = information.

is fairly general = ... "carry Traffic Engineering information".

Thanks.

JP.

A
=

= --Apple-Mail-9-630883660-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 21:13:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Idbl6-0007SR-2e for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:13:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Idbl5-0007ff-NA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:13:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdbZG-000Bxb-EZ for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 01:01:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.60.39.103] (helo=tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdbZE-000BxG-C6 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 01:01:25 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9511MM4020277 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA5520AE2D for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41D220AE2B for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.68]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9511KWO012140 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9511KRF002435 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imf0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.144]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9511JC4002428 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from Panasonic.lab.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.80.55]) by imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9511FPj011438 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:01:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071005095952.065775d0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: tt043@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:00:05 +0900 To: From: Tomonori TAKEDA Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Support Tomonori At 21:31 07/09/29, Adrian Farrel wrote: >Hi, > >Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. 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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C8072C.1AF37F20-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 05 04:05:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdiBV-0004ir-EO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:05:21 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdiBS-00026k-WD for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:05:19 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Idi0U-000Faj-Fn for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:53:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [202.32.8.193] (helo=tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Idi0R-000FaQ-Va for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:53:57 +0000 Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp (mailgate54.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.193]) by tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l957rsaQ002094 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:53:54 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) id l957rs300018 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:53:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kaishu.jp.nec.com (kaishu.jp.nec.com [10.26.220.5]) by mailsv3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILSV4-NEC) with ESMTP id l957rrB20119 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:53:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from NISHIOKAPC2 ([10.56.135.192] [10.56.135.192]) by mail.jp.nec.com with ESMTP; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:53:53 +0900 Reply-To: From: "Itaru Nishioka" To: References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:01:17 +0900 Organization: nec Message-Id: <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AcgClWut2jd/S5tsT6Gkz26XGZ6fsQEkEnGw Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 I support this draft. Thanks, Itaru. /======================================= / Itaru Nishioka / e-mail:i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com / Tel. +81-44-396-3287 ext. 8-22-72647 / System Platforms Research Labs. / NEC Corporation /======================================= > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft > > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have > completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now > that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons > to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the > requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation > draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the > protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to > become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > From cup@mynmail.com Fri Oct 05 05:10:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdjC7-0000O5-S7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:10:03 -0400 Received: from [125.187.32.133] (helo=m10.mailyes.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IdjC1-00042k-Lt for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:09:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 10039 invoked by uid 0); 5 Oct 2007 18:03:23 +0900 Message-ID: <20071005090323.10038.qmail@m10.mailyes.net> To: ccamp-archive Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNS5KfSROS35CLSQsOCsbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJEQkKyRrGyhC?= From: MANZOKU Reply-to: delivery_rt Date: 2007-10-05 18:00:02 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20071004202745_cbur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:14:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Idosv-0000aJ-9S for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:14:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdojZ-0001ZQ-Dy for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:04:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.179.121.47] (helo=viefep27-int.chello.at) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IdojW-0001Ym-De for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:04:55 +0000 Received: from [192.168.17.2] (really [77.250.75.243]) by viefep12-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20071005150439.YZNP7296.viefep12-int.chello.at@[192.168.17.2]> for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:04:39 +0200 Message-ID: <47065285.2050100@chello.nl> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:04:37 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <470545C2.9010405@grotto-networking.com> In-Reply-To: <470545C2.9010405@grotto-networking.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Hello, I support progressing this document as WG draft, for the same reasons as mentioned by Greg. Cheers, Huub. Greg Bernstein wrote: ===================== > I support this becoming a WG draft. I think those interested in > VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation > capabilities mentioned in the draft. > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or >> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, >> we need to look for a solutions I-D. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and >> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this >> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some >> elements might change. >> >> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >> draft. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian -- ================================================================ http://www.van-helvoort.eu/ ================================================================ Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else... 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If you're in the US or anywhere else, join your new casino paradise. http://trynetgambling.net/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 05 12:26:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Idq0d-0002tc-IK for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:26:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Idq0c-00029t-IV for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:26:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Idpsw-000910-1g for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:18:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [168.127.0.57] (helo=fncnmp04.fnc.fujitsu.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Idpst-00090P-2c for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:18:40 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,236,1188795600"; d="scan'208,217";a="130839901" Received: from rchemx01.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.104]) by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP; 05 Oct 2007 11:18:38 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035" Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Thread-Index: AcgHa2EDRFwGGnkzSXasptNzAJPDIQ== From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7c1a129dc3801d79d40c5ca8dee767eb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new = extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration = times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the = neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval = is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts = within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never = detect a hello failure.=20 RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on = a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an = issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this = scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because = the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues = sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes = because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. = This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no = RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted = because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based = on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 = doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is = there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful = restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when = communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes = nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream = ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D = and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer = expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new = Extensions

Hi,

I have a couple of questions on = RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in = draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any = issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple = (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart = duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the = multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then = it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. =

RFC3473 does describe detection = of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the = hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being = generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence = diagram below:

= N1            = ;            =         N2
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (Restart start)
| = HELLO           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
| = SRefresh           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
| = HELLO           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (Restart = complete)
| = SRefresh           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
| = NACK           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   |
= |<--------------------------------|
| Path (without = recovery label) |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (resoure allocation = failed because the resouces are in use)
| = PathErr           =              = |
= |<--------------------------------|
| = PathTear           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
X (CON = deletion)          &nbs= p;       X (XCON deletion)
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |

The issue is because N1 did not = detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get = NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state = corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh = message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did = not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not = yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and = a real test.

What is the solution to this = issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not = compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have = missed?

The other issue I wanted to = understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the = RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node = restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets = isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

&n= bsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If = this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get = deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be = prevented ?

Would appreciate your = response.

Regards,
Snigdho

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As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together. And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors. Do you think this way is helpful? If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions. For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'. As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ? 'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart? Regards, Jiang weilian Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsDate: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.comTo: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho _________________________________________________________________ MSN ��ʱ��Ѷ��ۼ��Ż�� http://cn.msn.com --_c497efcf-71fc-41dc-9be2-aebf4ac4e0dd_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi,

For your first question, I think the key is the restarted node.

As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can
periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR
capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the
neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together.

And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors.

Do you think this way is helpful? If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions.

For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'.
As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ?
'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?

Regards,
Jiang weilian

Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500
From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Hi,
I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.
Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.
RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.
Please look-at the sequence diagram below:
N1                                N2
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart start)
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart complete)
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
| NACK                           |
|<--------------------------------|
| Path (without recovery label) |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)
| PathErr                        |
|<--------------------------------|
| PathTear                       |
|-------------------------------->|
X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
|                                 |
The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.
What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?
The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.
Example,
             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G
Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?
Would appreciate your response.
Regards,
Snigdho

��¼��ܹ��ʼ��ʻ�� Windows Live Mail�� ԣ� --_c497efcf-71fc-41dc-9be2-aebf4ac4e0dd_-- --_cbfb7a12-cf69-4ea7-8014-10b207e018d9_ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00.txt" TmV0d29yayBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEppYW5nV2VpbGlhbihaVEUg Q29ycG9yYXRpb24pDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICBGZW5nSnVuKFpURSBDb3Jwb3JhdGlvbikNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEN1aVlpbmcoWlRFIENvcnBvcmF0aW9uKQ0KRXhwaXJlczogTWF5IDIw LCAyMDA2ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBLb25nWW9uZyhaVEUgQ29ycG9yYXRpb24pDQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBMdW9KaWFuKFpURSBD b3Jwb3JhdGlvbikNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICBOb3ZlbWJlciAyMCwgIDIwMDUgICAgICANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg 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From COTTLEculx@aljapisa.com Sat Oct 06 06:59:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie7O0-0006Yv-Df for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:59:56 -0400 Received: from [86.77.114.2] (helo=[86.77.114.2]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie7Ns-0002Cj-UA for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:59:51 -0400 Received: from nom-eb85c523610 ([137.165.74.51]:21044 "EHLO nom-eb85c523610" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [86.77.114.2] with ESMTP id S22KQCSRRXSAWNCU (ORCPT ); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:00:20 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:00:06 +0200 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Katie COTTLE" Subject: ellesatl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000778-4, 05/10/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Hello ccamp-archive A girl once told me i was to small, im the one laughing now Katie COTTLE http://www.missburke.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 06 07:22:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie7k0-0001CS-SU for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:22:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie7jv-0002DN-2C for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:22:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ie7at-000LmV-JB for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:13:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ie7aq-000Lly-Cj for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:13:14 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ie7an-0005UQ-M8 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:13:09 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:13:09 +0100 Message-ID: <046401c80809$dfb94cd0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp $E-mail$" References: Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:12:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2007 11:13:09.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[E06B37B0:01C80809] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 Hi Snigdho, Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. Some thoughts... We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the SRefresh would not fix the problem. In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: - either - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor or - respond to any first received message from a neighbor with which it does not have an active Hello exchange by sending a Hello - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos from neighbors with which it does not have an active Hello exchange We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already in use. In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable Label Set object. So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be treated with more care than a simple PathTear. With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. I suggest: 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your questions about multiple failures. In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and pointer to what they could change. Cheers, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 06 08:41:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie8y6-0004QQ-7t for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 08:41:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ie8y5-0004uC-Nn for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 08:41:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ie8pz-0001KL-DK for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:32:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.142] (helo=rutherford.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ie8pw-0001Js-Ur for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:32:53 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by rutherford.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ie8ps-0006ZY-Fx for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:32:48 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:48 +0100 Message-ID: <04bd01c80814$ff87ff10$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2007 12:32:48.0224 (UTC) FILETIME=[00E28600:01C80815] X-Originating-Rutherford-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Heads-up. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: [Tsvwg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group Working > Group of the IETF. > > > Title : User-Defined Errors for RSVP > Author(s) : G. Swallow, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2007-10-06 > > The Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) defines an ERROR_SPEC object > for communicating errors. That object has a defined format that > permits the definition of 256 error codes. As RSVP has been > developed and extended, the convention has been to be conservative in > defining new error codes. Further, no provision for user-defined > errors exists in RSVP. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Oct 07 23:10:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iej0j-0005Sl-Kh for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:10:25 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iej0d-00074G-B1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:10:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IeioX-0004Yg-QE for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:57:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.54] (helo=szxga02-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IeioU-0004Xu-8Q for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:57:48 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPK00GG8O84US@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:40 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPK00DYKO823K@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:40 +0800 (CST) Received: from l37133 ([10.70.77.75]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPK001J5O8100@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:38 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:22 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions To: Arun Satyanarayana , "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" , "Gao, Jianhua" Message-id: <00b101c80956$f296ddb0$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f884eb1d4ec5a230688d7edc526ea665 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsHi Snigdho, It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473. As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision. For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Bardalai, Snigdho To: Ccamp (E-mail) Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho --Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Hi Snigdho,

It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.

As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.

For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message -----

From: Bardalai, Snigdho

To: Ccamp (E-mail)

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM

Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions

Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

N1                                N2
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart start)
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart complete)
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
| NACK                           |
|<--------------------------------|
| Path (without recovery label) |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)
| PathErr                        |
|<--------------------------------|
| PathTear                       |
|-------------------------------->|
X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
|                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho
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Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" ; "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions > Hi Snigdho, > > Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. > > Some thoughts... > > We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it > actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the > same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the > SRefresh would not fix the problem. [dan] Agree. Changing the behavior of SRefresh message would not help. > > In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very > small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 > completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that > N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. > That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. [dan] The time window size depends on how quickly the restarted node sends out the Hello message after the communication comes back. I would like to see N2 ignore all received messages until it receives the ACK of the Hello message from N1. > > That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: > - either > - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor > or > - respond to any first received message from a > neighbor with which it does not have an active > Hello exchange by sending a Hello > - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos > from neighbors with which it does not have an active > Hello exchange > [dan] Agree with Adrian. > We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either > mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources > required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already > in use. > > In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource > allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). > > In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain > "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". > In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the > PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of > failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with > "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable > Label Set object. > > So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. > Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv > state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all > of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something > slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the > dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else > is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello > if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. > > In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to > large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is > not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The > former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be > treated with more care than a simple PathTear. [dan] Usually the traffic carried by the data plane is required not be touched when the control plane fails. So N1 should be very careful to take any actions to tear down the LSP. > > With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of > multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh > failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed > from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as > second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have > draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. > > I suggest: > > 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without > SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. > > 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your > questions about multiple failures. > > In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and > pointer to what they could change. [dan] Yes, you're welcome to send us the proposed text for GR-Description ID. > > Cheers, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" > To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM > Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions > > > Hi, > > I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new > extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. > > Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times > the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring > node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, > the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then > it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. > > RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a > new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue > with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. > > Please look-at the sequence diagram below: > > N1 N2 > | | > | X (Restart start) > | HELLO | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | SRefresh | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | HELLO | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | X (Restart complete) > | SRefresh | > |-------------------------------->| > | NACK | > |<--------------------------------| > | Path (without recovery label) | > |-------------------------------->| > | X (resoure allocation failed because the > resouces are in use) > | PathErr | > |<--------------------------------| > | PathTear | > |-------------------------------->| > X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) > | | > > The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending > SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there > is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a > Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because > N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not > yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a > real test. > > What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing > anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there > something I have missed? > > The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful > restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when > communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes > nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. > > Example, > > A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G > > Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and > E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in > node D? 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http://grandbestcasino.net/ ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C80978.029DEB8D-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 03:03:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IemeK-0007Vz-Ar for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:03:32 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IemeJ-0004uq-4e for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:03:32 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IemRk-000J4I-Bw for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:50:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [195.101.245.15] (helo=p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IemRi-000J3v-7A for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:50:31 +0000 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:49:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:49:25 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClWut2jd/S5tsT6Gkz26XGZ6fsQEkEnGwAJRQTkA= References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2> From: "NIGER Philippe RD-RESA-LAN" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2007 06:49:17.0035 (UTC) FILETIME=[587C2BB0:01C80977] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb =20 Hi, I support this I-D as WG draft. Philippe. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed=20 > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and=20 > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20 > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20 > elements might change. >=20 > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG=20 > draft. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 03:39:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IenCo-000500-T0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:39:10 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IenCj-0004mo-5b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:39:05 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iemx0-000LNP-Ip for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:22:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.54] (helo=szxga02-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iemwx-000LMe-LM for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:22:49 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPL003BQ0HT82@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPL002D40HSYJ@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:41 +0800 (CST) Received: from l37133 ([10.70.77.75]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPL00C1F0HR2D@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:40 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:22 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt To: Greg Bernstein , Adrian Farrel Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Message-id: <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 Hi, If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on a hop-by-hop basis. But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the wavelength level to choose the path. I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new technologies. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bernstein" To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC > networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can > be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information > can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment > problem. > > For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a > fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this > port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range > specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. > > Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be > used. In > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt > we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel > spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence > with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing > Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to > fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. > > Regards > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by > > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > > > > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is > > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a > > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. > ---snip--- > > === > > Section 5.2 > > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits > > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find > > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating > > another bit to the CS field. > > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it > > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is > > not so improbable. > > So, how about... > > 0 1 2 3 > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > === > > > --snip-- > > The two things you do need in this section are: > > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > > Label can be used. > > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > > Generalized Label Object? > > === > > Section 6.2 > > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda > > availability is best removed from this I-D. > > === > > Section 7 > > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the > > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to > > snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security > > model, but you should mention the fact. > > === > > Section 10 > > I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. > > === > > > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > > > > > > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > From Bryanne.butay@amrcoop.net Mon Oct 08 04:47:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeoGc-0006I2-B5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 04:47:10 -0400 Received: from [82.84.251.41] (helo=[82.84.251.41]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeoGN-0006iR-G6 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 04:46:55 -0400 Received: by 10.163.60.142 with SMTP id UStdahlGQYWxT; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:53 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.158.37 with SMTP id MDdFMLizfMztZj.8544717823789; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:51 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <000701c80987$c3704950$29fb5452@oemba00238c76b> From: "Bryanne butay" To: Subject: onbuigza Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C80998.86F91950" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C80998.86F91950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.potny.com/ Hi ccamp-archive Ladies can sence a confident man, and they like it. 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 08:14:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IerVe-0008KK-Dv for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:14:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IerVT-0004gY-4z for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:14:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IerLM-000Dph-3z for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:04:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [192.26.91.6] (helo=mandala.kddilabs.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IerLJ-000DpQ-G4 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:04:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD7BECBC2; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:04:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (unknown [2001:200:601:1300:20a:48ff:fe12:3f1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD0DECBD2; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:04:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c018.vpn.kddilabs.jp [172.19.87.18]) by platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4B6578111; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:04:07 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:05:00 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Li Cc: Greg Bernstein , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) With best regards, Tomo Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: > Hi, > > If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing > problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, > and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on > a hop-by-hop basis. > > But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the > wavelength level to choose the path. > > I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, > current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by > some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. > The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the > "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new > technologies. > > Regards, > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Bernstein" > To: "Adrian Farrel" > Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM > Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > > > >> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC >> networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can >> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information >> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment >> problem. >> >> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a >> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this >> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range >> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. >> >> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be >> used. In >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt >> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel >> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence >> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing >> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to >> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. >>> >>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is >>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. >>> >> ---snip--- >> >>> === >>> Section 5.2 >>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits >>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find >>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating >>> another bit to the CS field. >>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it >>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is >>> not so improbable. >>> So, how about... >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> === >>> >>> >> --snip-- >> >>> The two things you do need in this section are: >>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? >>> Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized >>> Label can be used. >>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used >>> and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? >>> Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) >>> or do you propose to define a new field value in the >>> Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the >>> Generalized Label Object? >>> === >>> Section 6.2 >>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >>> availability is best removed from this I-D. >>> === >>> Section 7 >>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to >>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security >>> model, but you should mention the fact. >>> === >>> Section 10 >>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. >>> === >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> =================================================== >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >> >> >> >> > > > > From yamaniojefiojeio@freedombremner.com Mon Oct 08 08:32:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iermk-0002La-D2 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:32:34 -0400 Received: from net135-111.4web.pl ([194.63.135.111]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iermh-0004nO-QB for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:32:32 -0400 Received: from comtech by freedombremner.com with ASMTP id C40F1589 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:34:07 +0200 Received: from comtech ([100.137.128.176]) by freedombremner.com with ESMTP id 1B4D295EC7C6 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:34:07 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c809a7$70db0750$6f873fc2@comtech> From: "yaman iojefiojeio" To: Subject: notules Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:33:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C809B8.3463D750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C809B8.3463D750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://pleuibs.com/ Good day ccamp-archive recommended by pornstars since 1999, this is there advantage yaman iojefiojeio ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C809B8.3463D750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Come on in! http://85.24.126.64/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 09:47:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IesxF-0005Jk-KU for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:47:29 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IesxF-0000xe-7x for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:47:29 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IesmV-000MXy-6D for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:36:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.18.2.163] (helo=exprod7og105.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IesmS-000MXM-Lb for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:36:22 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:34:21 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 06:36:13 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l98DaDn92533; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 06:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710081336.l98DaDn92533@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Adrian Farrel , Yakov Rekhter , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:02:44 EDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <40351.1191850573.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:36:13 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2007 13:36:13.0863 (UTC) FILETIME=[320C7370:01C809B0] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb JP, > Hi, > > Sorry for being late in that thread ... no problem :-) > On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > > > > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > > > > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > > > > This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > > Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > > (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > > Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > > to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > > > > Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > application ... sounds > pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > TE LSP > is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > inter-domain > TE (per domain, PCE, ...). Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. Yakov. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 09:56:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iet5i-0005zg-3X for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:56:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iet5h-0001QF-JY for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:56:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iesw3-000NVf-3O for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:46:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.148] (helo=rtp-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iesw0-000NV3-Ox for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:46:13 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,242,1188792000"; d="scan'208";a="73369116" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2007 09:46:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l98Dk7wZ020274; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:46:07 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l98Djp2u000230; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:45:56 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:45:19 -0400 Received: from [10.86.104.178] ([10.86.104.178]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:45:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200710081336.l98DaDn92533@magenta.juniper.net> References: <200710081336.l98DaDn92533@magenta.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1A401D65-C865-4758-8745-5ECE1F6C71D9@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:44:12 -0400 To: Yakov Rekhter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2007 13:45:18.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[76D6A920:01C809B1] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15466.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--23.853000-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1719; t=1191851167; x=1192715167; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=Zqmn31IALZemoWYzZwXgyLQY/pc+WKMJP+5aCeQkc9I=; b=T1qzXpS4w/llzLjlG+4BOe+stHD+vholVNeBN0bvehO0HX4DFtq32WwAUZ9LdXs554eN1zWe 5mtGQwh0LyuQ6Vt7VRdoNFl50tDmnK5K+LOUL4/uvjnD7bxWsURAOLkw; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Hi Yakov, On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >> Hi, >> >> Sorry for being late in that thread ... > > no problem :-) > >> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>> >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. >>> >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>> >>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey >>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) >>> - CE >>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be >>> used >>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>> >> >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >> application ... sounds >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE >> TE LSP >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to >> inter-domain >> TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes already defined for the IGPs ? Thanks. JP. > > Yakov. 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= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C809DB.A41F6D70-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 14:37:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IexUF-0004HR-Dz for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:37:51 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IexUE-0002p3-Lq for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:37:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IexLq-000PBn-Ba for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:29:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-202.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.138] (helo=ns1.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IexLm-000PBS-Jq for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:29:08 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EADFF26EEC; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:29:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IexLl-0006p1-S6; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:29:05 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:29:05 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt-05.txt Technical Summary It is highly desired in several cases to take into account Traffic Engineering (TE) node capabilities during path selection for MPLS and G-MPLS Traffic Engineered LSPs (ie, in picking the route for the LSP), such as for instance the capability to act as a branch Label Switching Router (LSR) of a Point-To-MultiPoint (P2MP) LSP. This requires advertising these capabilities within the Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP). For that purpose, this document specifies OSPF and IS-IS traffic engineering extensions for the advertisement of control plane and data plane traffic engineering node capabilities. Working Group Summary No dissent reported. The document is authored by some key CCAMP WG members and received constructive comments from across the WG during its development. The working group has been relatively quiet on this work, but the chairs judge that to be because it is "done and dusted". It is a small protocol feature. The document was shown to the OSPF and ISIS working groups more than once,and the last call was notified to the two IGP working groups. Protocol Quality Ross Callon has reviewed this for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor Section 4.1, replace the first paragraph as follows: OLD: The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. NEW: The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit corresponds to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended with additional 32-bit words if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits. Add the following text at the end of section 4.1, right after the definition of the reserved bits: Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 4, implying that there are more than 32 bits in the value field, then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved. Section 4.2, replace the first paragraph as follows: OLD: The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. NEW: The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended with additional bytes if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits. Update the third paragraph of section 4.2 as follows: OLD The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS [RFC3784]. That is, the TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1 octet specifying the TLV length and a value field. NEW The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the sub-TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS [RFC3784]. That is, the sub-TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1 octet specifying the sub-TLV length and a value field. Add the following text at the end of section 4.2, right after the definition of the reserved bits: Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 1, implying that there are more than 8 bits in the value field, then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved. Section 8.2, first paragraph. Replace: OLD [IS-IS-CAP] defines a new code point registry for sub-TLVs carried in the ISIS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP]. NEW IANA has defined a registry for sub-TLVs of the IS-IS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP]. Please correct the text at the end of the existing section 8.3 as follows: OLD Bit No. Name Reference --------+---------------------------------------+----------- 1 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability [This.I-D] 2 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability [This.I-D] 3 M bit: MPLS-TE support [This.I-D] 4 G bit: GMPLS support [This.I-D] 5 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support [This.I-D] NEW Bit No. Name Reference --------+---------------------------------------+--------------- 0 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 1 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 2 M bit: MPLS-TE support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 3 G bit: GMPLS support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 4 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] >4: Available for assignment | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] IANA Note See RFC editor's note above. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 14:55:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iexkw-0003Ub-QP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:55:08 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iexkq-0000uK-Js for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:55:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IexZF-0000Vq-NU for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:43:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IexZD-0000VV-6H for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:43:00 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IexZB-0007pp-Jk for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:42:57 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:42:56 +0100 Message-ID: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft response to MFA liaison Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:42:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2007 18:42:57.0050 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B33EFA0:01C809DB] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Hi, The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. We were requested to respond by 18th October. Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following as a starting-point for a response liaison. Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time for me to send the liaison on October 15th. Thanks, Adrian === Dear David and Rao, Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is understandably low. We do have the following observations for your consideration. 1. References. In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our specifications we are limited to referring only to documents that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final ballot. The following list of references falls into this category: - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp - draft-ietf-bfd-base - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib - draft-ietf-bfd-mib 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of support. Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in section 5 does not reference RFC3473. Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. 3. Broken Reference In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. Best regards, Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 15:17:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iey6H-0004no-SE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:17:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iey6G-0001as-3C for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:17:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iexyf-0002Yh-Ir for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:09:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iexyc-0002YD-Bx for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:09:16 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l98J8Jpp073442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <470A8023.6030801@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:08:19 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tomohiro Otani CC: Dan Li , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp> In-Reply-To: <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020804070405000000020707" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e8a3b85ef670172081194f0b0f68e6f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020804070405000000020707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a narrow spacing. At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T) at 193.1THz. So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question. Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link either ;-) I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that. When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for example in routing) I could use something like: (Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) + (Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication available/in use). Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like: (Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) + (channel range as a 16 bit integer). Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many other contexts! Regards Greg Tomohiro Otani wrote: > Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, > > Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. > We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. > > I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, > how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? > (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) > > With best regards, > > Tomo > > > Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: > >> Hi, >> >> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing >> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, >> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on >> a hop-by-hop basis. >> >> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the >> wavelength level to choose the path. >> >> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, >> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by >> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. >> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the >> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new >> technologies. >> >> Regards, >> >> Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Greg Bernstein" >> To: "Adrian Farrel" >> Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" >> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM >> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt >> >> >> >> >>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC >>> networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can >>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information >>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment >>> problem. >>> >>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a >>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this >>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range >>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. >>> >>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be >>> used. In >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt >>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel >>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence >>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing >>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to >>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Greg B. >>> >>> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. >>>> >>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is >>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. >>>> >>>> >>> ---snip--- >>> >>> >>>> === >>>> Section 5.2 >>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits >>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find >>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating >>>> another bit to the CS field. >>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it >>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is >>>> not so improbable. >>>> So, how about... >>>> 0 1 2 3 >>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> === >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> --snip-- >>> >>> >>>> The two things you do need in this section are: >>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? >>>> Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized >>>> Label can be used. >>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used >>>> and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? >>>> Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) >>>> or do you propose to define a new field value in the >>>> Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the >>>> Generalized Label Object? >>>> === >>>> Section 6.2 >>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >>>> availability is best removed from this I-D. >>>> === >>>> Section 7 >>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to >>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security >>>> model, but you should mention the fact. >>>> === >>>> Section 10 >>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. >>>> === >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> =================================================== >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------020804070405000000020707 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a narrow spacing.

At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T) at 193.1THz.

So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question. Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link either ;-)

I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that.

When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for example in routing) I could use something like:

(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) + (Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication available/in use).

Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) + (channel range as a 16 bit integer).

Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many other contexts!

Regards

Greg

Tomohiro Otani wrote:

Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) With best regards, Tomo Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:

Hi, If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on a hop-by-hop basis. But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the wavelength level to choose the path. I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new technologies. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt

Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment problem. For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be used. In http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote:

Hi, I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.

---snip---

=== Section 5.2 It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to the CS field. Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so improbable. So, how about... 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ===

--snip--

The two things you do need in this section are: 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized Label can be used. 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) or do you propose to define a new field value in the Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object? === Section 6.2 As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda availability is best removed from this I-D. === Section 7 You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you should mention the fact. === Section 10 I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. === Cheers, Adrian

-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
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------=_NextPart_000_77FE_01C809F0.B7C28A00-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 17:38:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If0Ij-0003nH-I5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:38:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If0Ic-0005eR-Rg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:38:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If0AJ-000HVE-Ui for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:29:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [168.127.0.56] (helo=fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If0AG-000HUo-5O for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:29:25 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,244,1188795600"; d="scan'208";a="200002418" Received: from rchemx01.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.104]) by fncnmp01.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2007 16:29:15 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:29:15 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <046401c80809$dfb94cd0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Thread-Index: AcgIY3Yv693svNfHRKqOQI3yyibtoQBdDGyg From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 Hi Adrian, My comments below... Thanks, Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:12 AM To: Bardalai, Snigdho; Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi Snigdho, Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. Some thoughts... We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think = it=20 actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly = the=20 same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the=20 SRefresh would not fix the problem. [SCB] We had thought about such an option but as you mention the = solution would=20 have to consider the full refresh scenario as well. In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very = small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between = N2=20 completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say = that=20 N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and = running.=20 That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: - either - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor or - respond to any first received message from a neighbor with which it does not have an active Hello exchange by sending a Hello - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos from neighbors with which it does not have an active Hello exchange [SCB] This is a good and robust solution. Addressing this type of = implementation detail would be a good candidate for the GR-description draft. We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could = either=20 mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources=20 required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are = already=20 in use. In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new = resource=20 allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] = contain=20 "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the=20 PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of=20 failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with=20 "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable = Label Set object. So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. = Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has = Resv=20 state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes = (all=20 of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect = something=20 slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking = the=20 dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything = else=20 is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a = Hello=20 if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set = far to=20 large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because = N1 is=20 not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. = The=20 former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to = be=20 treated with more care than a simple PathTear. [SCB] I believe what we are getting into is the clarification of the = detailed behaviors to cover the various scenarios. I agree that the = GR-description ID would be the ideal place to clarify these. With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of=20 multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh=20 failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was = removed=20 from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) = as=20 second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have=20 draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. I suggest: 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without=20 SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers = your=20 questions about multiple failures. In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and=20 pointer to what they could change. [SCB] Sure, I will provide some text. Cheers, Adrian ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new=20 extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration = times=20 the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the = neighboring=20 node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 = seconds,=20 the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds = then=20 it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on = a=20 new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an = issue=20 with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because = the=20 resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues = sending=20 SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because = there=20 is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes = a=20 Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL = because=20 N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have = not=20 yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and = a=20 real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 = doing=20 anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there=20 something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful=20 restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when=20 communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes=20 nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream = ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D = and=20 E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in = node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 18:07:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If0lO-0003OL-7T for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:07:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If0lF-0006MO-Ub for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:07:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If0cc-000KU6-1h for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:58:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [206.16.17.211] (helo=usaga01-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If0cZ-000KTk-PR for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:58:41 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPM00DU151QDN@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Lee736821 ([10.124.12.76]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPM000NO51MFL@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:58:16 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt In-reply-to: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> To: 'Adrian Farrel' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: 'Tomohiro Otani' , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "'K. Miyazaki'" , "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" Message-id: <002601c809f6$54f18ba0$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcgDakR1Wqrne6KaSOO+a3PewZkcJAGhdccw Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 Hi, I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength switched optical network (WSON). A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid (as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be agreed upon across the network entities. The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. Regards, Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI) Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Hi, I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. Here are some nits and issues in the current draft. === Abstract You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract === Abstract d/ and getting significant/ === Abstract "new generation" Do you mean "next generation" or "new"? === Abstract s/proposes/defines/ === Section 3 s/vendors? network is/vendors' networks are/ === Section 3 "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints." I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph! === Figure 2 The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown in figure 1. === Section 4 I think you need to be careful here. These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language. Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling. === Section 5.2 It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to the CS field. Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so improbable. So, how about... 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ === Section 5.3 To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would suggest the following for CWDM. 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | Reserved | Lambda | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ === Section 6.1 I think some of the progression here is faulty. We have: "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end scope. The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has significance only between two neighbors." It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop. I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D, and could be dropped without any problem. The two things you do need in this section are: 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized Label can be used. 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) or do you propose to define a new field value in the Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object? === Section 6.2 As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda availability is best removed from this I-D. === Section 7 You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you should mention the fact. === Section 10 I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. === Cheers, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 19:15:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If1ow-0004MF-LG for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:15:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1If1ov-0008Cq-Ek for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:15:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If1hF-0000bC-Ma for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:07:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If1hD-0000au-MD for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:07:32 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l98N7FZ3015717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:07:14 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly pack them in. Currently the draft has: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ---snip--- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Adaptation Capability-specific information | | (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH. So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. 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For once and for ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C80A5B.7E7EF3D0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 04:05:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfA6I-0000Qg-Ng for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 04:05:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfA68-0005Us-F6 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 04:05:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If9n3-000JUW-3d for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:46:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [72.14.204.225] (helo=qb-out-0506.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1If9mw-000JT8-1n for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:46:04 +0000 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f11so1056462qba for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:45:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=O3dNBqtqvTGqIFz5Iq7XcGmLrH/KgHCuiZq9K+tOzYs=; b=WkjAuW7Wi3M04+Hqm2/VvgtxmS4MY/tWp/Phw9sHy7VQnPueCPYQngo+0MNvvPZXLFa0gUCc4UySKBTcsyPtjfFJF5y/MhkJUsHTRq+YoH7JKFR4UIsEN7xZhCpguzOC5Nxk7o5/0jW5k5P1gbpR3Kq/mpYO5iQgE3AewdBrrDw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=N26duXqCOCnOTK9pNfuljEYiOGYjxYGR3G9KzClaaMmXK3/O3U+NoK0JPjIPuw7pMseKWdriu5fkLhQIdjgZ92NsmzGMAhhK9ryvvIJ75FhKQYTfV1iz4vY2NaE5ID8qxs6GR4wl35MVS+DnLTmlQWR/j4KjRW1n/gZ0JeAgYIs= Received: by 10.65.100.14 with SMTP id c14mr23750845qbm.1191915956935; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.234.18 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 00:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8c99930d0710090045ua30cc4hc7beaf426e1626f3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 03:45:56 -0400 From: "Andrew G. Malis" To: "Adrian Farrel" Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Adrian, Thanks for your comments so far. Regarding the references to drafts, those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon. If they get held up, we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting. This issue is a particular sore spot. I'm very mystified in particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs. Everyone is implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in is affecting work both in the IETF and outside. Cheers, Andy On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt > with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS > Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. > > We were requested to respond by 18th October. > > Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so > it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. > > I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following > as a starting-point for a response liaison. > > Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time > for me to send the liaison on October 15th. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > === > Dear David and Rao, > > Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As > you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also > participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is > understandably low. > > We do have the following observations for your consideration. > > 1. References. > > In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our > specifications we are limited to referring only to documents > that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this > document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this > stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final > ballot. > The following list of references falls into this category: > - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te > - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp > - draft-ietf-bfd-base > - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop > - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) > - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter > - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements > - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib > - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib > - draft-ietf-bfd-mib > > 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI > > In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular > to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI > specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of > support. > > Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, > although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in > section 5 does not reference RFC3473. > > Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also > need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. > > 3. Broken Reference > > In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the > reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or > draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. > > Best regards, > Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard > IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs > > > > From ivltaxation@paulstanton.com Tue Oct 09 04:06:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfA6l-0000xk-Ee for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 04:06:27 -0400 Received: from [222.252.242.137] (helo=paulstanton.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfA5a-0005Sk-Mz for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 04:06:14 -0400 Received: from PCAP1225 ([135.162.81.217]:10372 "HELO PCAP1225" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 89f2fcdepaulstanton.com with ESMTP id A0149055813B3 (ORCPT ); Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:05:22 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c80a5b$ebd0f1e0$01bf1bfc@PCAP1225> From: spelling or To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: To belong Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:05:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C80A5B.EBD0F1E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C80A5B.EBD0F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tree realistically on canvas who were dismayed at the idea that strong understanding of technology. 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We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to tidy up the language a bit. Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns before. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > > Title : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label > Switching (GMPLS) Networks > Author(s) : T. Otani, et al. > Filename : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2007-10-08 > > This document describes requirements for operations and management > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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remember day foot bread, ten second day son mistress son pay, rsozh63pg1fb5 tmt68w3k71v ------=_NextPart_000_0895_71943C57.5BAEA5AB-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 22:48:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfRcA-0002YJ-C8 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:48:02 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfRc5-0001Z4-Re for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:47:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfRS3-000BWT-4O for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:37:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.54] (helo=szxga02-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfRS0-000BVJ-T3 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:37:33 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPO000QLCMC37@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from M55527 ([10.111.12.79]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPO006MCCMB60@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:24 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:07 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: RE: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Alan Davey Cc: OSPF List , Vishwas Manral , CCAMP List , Acee Lindem Message-id: <0JPO006MDCMB60@szxga02-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [en] Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Hi Alan, Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) Thanks for your useful comments! On 2007-09-27, at 17:48:59 Alan Davey wrote: >Guys > >Apologies for the late response. > >I basically agree with Acee. > >* It makes sense to define a new OSPFv3-TE LSA type to carry the >AS connectivity information. I think that this would probably provide a >better and more back compatible way to identify the new advertisements >than defining a new link type value. Agree, a new LSA type is a better option for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE. > >* It also makes sense to use the same approach in OSPFv2 and >OSPFv3 and so a new OSPFv2 opaque type may be the way to go. > We are considering whether define a new OSPFv2 opaque type. >My other comments on the draft, from an OSPFv3 TE perspective, are as >follows. > >* On the subject of identifying the other end of the inter-AS >link. > > - The Link ID sub-TLV is not suitable as it SHOULD be ignored >on receipt by an OSPFv3 TE implementation. > > - The Neighbor ID sub-TLV MUST be used instead. This sub-TLV >contains the neighbor's interface ID and the neighbor's 32-bit Router ID >(note that this is NOT the TE Router ID). > > - Use of the Neighbor ID sub-TLV requires configuration at the >ASBR of the remote ASBR's interface ID and the 32-bit Router ID. > Yes, for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE, this will be performed as the current OSPFv3 TE does. > - You may want to advertise a global-scope IPv6 address for the >router at the other end of an inter-AS link in a Remote Interface IPv6 >Address Sub-TLV. This would also need to be configured. > >* As Acee pointed out, there is currently no OSPFv3 TE equivalent >to the Type 11 Opaque LSA, that is, there is no defined LSA for flooding >AS scope TE information. So, allocating a new separate LSA could make it easyly for the inter-AS TE information having area or AS flooding scope. > >* The wording needs to be changed for OSPFv3 TE when describing >the contents of a "proxy" advertisement for the backward direction of an >inter-AD TE link. > OK. >Regards > > >Alan Davey > Best regards, Mach Chen From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 22:50:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfReO-0005M8-8u for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:50:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfReN-0001c9-Ur for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:50:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfRS7-000BXD-MZ for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:37:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.55] (helo=szxga03-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfRS4-000BWV-1x for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:37:38 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPO00LYICMJWW@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from M55527 ([10.111.12.79]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPO003KFCMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:31 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:14 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Peng He Cc: Acee Lindem , OSPF List , Vishwas Manral , Alan Davey , CCAMP List Message-id: <0JPO003KICMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [en] Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Hi Peng, Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: >Hello Mach, > >Just be curious about the following: >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. 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servants benefit may, quickly with carefully explain away handwriting action? ----hdy1fhlo9mfrq5wii4012xjwsvm-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 23:59:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfSj3-0001Ps-2i for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:59:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfSj2-0003lK-Mp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:59:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfSb6-000HCZ-Tb for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:51:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.233.182.191] (helo=nf-out-0910.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfSb4-000HCJ-W8 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:50:59 +0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id d21so80382nfb for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:50:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=uQkUNgu890sGdsrhtY5jH0eYrCVEB0Wm/iDBw5MguXg=; b=j+4nOTTdkMes82U4ld+3Z/gl9GSi19QHsLb8DgPcsuo7u0mkiUQjzek1AK8IVl3SmpBAChfS4Mov3cHpBvHPrgUFJgZlBa+9pXzmSuOtEPjdkxXdC5/Z3B4UkYLoQguKtp7/7+c4ivlhIUL3LNTlKghA3pHQywVz81LPesEIk/M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qqPgT3JCMmvEC0PfPezHQQlHE+QY40NTnQhnFxP2B25xfSBhjzxD22+vrTfBlvy8CLKAAlxWLV+50ZRrSKZ82SEB6YyveS3+HVlVNhOqx0XezifqB2cYzwKLLTFFn7yNXFGypnKWiImLjUnKB12zR0ZA5b72EvBwAwWLEAdEafQ= Received: by 10.86.97.7 with SMTP id u7mr191616fgb.1191988255599; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.28.14 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <406e32c00710092050m7b9482eeo674431d6883e455f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:50:55 -0400 From: "Peng He" To: "Mach Chen" Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "Vishwas Manral" , "Alan Davey" , "CCAMP List" In-Reply-To: <0JPO003KICMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <0JPO003KICMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Hello Mach, > Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) > Understood :-) > > > On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: > > >Hello Mach, > > > >Just be curious about the following: > >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a > >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > > > >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that > >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming > >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. > > Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the link(s) is available. Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS TE link(s)? Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? Regards, Peng From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 03:42:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWCe-0003fk-Ah for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:42:00 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWCY-0001cQ-To for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:41:55 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfVuK-0005Sx-Az for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:23:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.54] (helo=szxga02-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfVuH-0005SA-31 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:23:03 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPO00A1JPJ2PZ@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:16:15 +0800 (CST) Received: from M55527 ([10.111.12.79]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPO00LC4PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:16:14 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:15:55 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Peng He Cc: Acee Lindem , Vishwas Manral , Alan Davey , CCAMP List Message-id: <0JPO00LC5PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [en] Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Hi Peng, On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote: >Hello Mach, > >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) >> > >Understood :-) >> >> >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: >> >> >Hello Mach, >> > >> >Just be curious about the following: >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; >> > >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. >> >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. > >One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the >link(s) is available. Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. > >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS >TE link(s)? As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? > Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it. > >Regards, >Peng Best regards, Mach Chen From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 04:25:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWsK-0005NV-MP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:25:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfWsK-0003RW-47 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:25:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfWbt-000936-Ad for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:08:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.23.212.7] (helo=smail6.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfWbq-00092V-Fx for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:08:04 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.77]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l9A86nfI030009; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:06:49 +0200 Received: from [172.27.205.178] ([172.27.205.178]) by FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:07:42 +0200 Message-ID: <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:07:42 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Bernstein CC: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> In-Reply-To: <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 08:07:42.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1FD90A0:01C80B14] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.84 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Dear Greg, both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing from a given switching capability to a different one. "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) capability. hope it clarifies. best regards, Greg Bernstein a �crit : > Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific > examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. > (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported > (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the > ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly > pack them in. > > Currently the draft has: > > 0 1 2 3 0 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | > Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > ---snip--- > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Adaptation Capability-specific information | > | (variable) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be > the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH. > So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? > > Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would > require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single > stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? > > Regards > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or >> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, >> we need to look for a solutions I-D. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and >> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. 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= ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C80B57.C10BDEA0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 10:09:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcG2-0003Vz-L3 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfcG1-00030a-ED for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ifc5N-000Akr-Od for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:58:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.142] (helo=rutherford.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ifc5L-000AkP-Ij for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:58:53 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by rutherford.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ifc5H-0003AY-Jn for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:58:47 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: <09c701c80b45$aaccb310$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Subject: New working group draft - MLN Solutions Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:58:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 13:59:00.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5AAFCB0:01C80B45] X-Originating-Rutherford-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Hi, Definitely good support for this. Thanks. Authors, please submit as draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-00.txt Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Proposed new working group draft > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need > to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might > change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG > draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 10:32:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfccI-00085y-Hg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfccH-0003jC-9B for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfcMJ-000CUW-BS for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:16:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.233.182.191] (helo=nf-out-0910.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfcM9-000CTD-9X for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:16:14 +0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id d21so219815nfb for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:16:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=yA59OTiT0RjbS2cP6MW/EYFdK1hzVbWBKUo5hUJj2ZE=; b=oMJpSDSeWmw52RC08gw+ed8nA6cmlfcUFzv0e+6UlHQ97l+I0Ib/vizGq37ryMQx9ncUlr3H/DePoN1zbDZ01R+Vg+8+n+AeeJe+8ThN2emnEAMzody2/7LHOaNgJQksxobLpxdeM1RHIInbYui2mxuhkU6nqvm8LNNe6pwJBDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nstj6vtyDKkKgPHecD19SYrRvLs+YgGzBCOcXGiCqw/nkvfzR6AmlhVYXLUkNSgnvDiu5IlKdL8gB2sh3gBAEtnnA0nrlyt+yneZbuB17MqBJ/2yaCmu4LPNeP1gLW8loiGXOEBZiJQi2Tj9lXLRoLvoEwQbxUiw0IWMnqx0ZwI= Received: by 10.86.98.18 with SMTP id v18mr585212fgb.1192025769202; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.28.14 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <406e32c00710100716n7cfd6d23sb47889b9081aa69d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:16:08 -0400 From: "Peng He" To: "Mach Chen" Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "Vishwas Manral" , "Alan Davey" , "CCAMP List" In-Reply-To: <0JPO00LC5PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <0JPO00LC5PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Hello Mach, Thanks a lot for your reply, all clear now. Regards, Peng On 10/10/07, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi Peng, > > On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote: > > >Hello Mach, > > > >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) > >> > > > >Understood :-) > >> > >> > >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: > >> > >> >Hello Mach, > >> > > >> >Just be curious about the following: > >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a > >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > >> > > >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that > >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming > >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. > >> > >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. > > > >One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the > >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the > >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path > >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the > >link(s) is available. > > Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. > > > > >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path > >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS > >TE link(s)? > > As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. > > >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, > >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? > > > Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it. > > > > > >Regards, > >Peng > > > Best regards, > Mach Chen > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 11:26:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdS7-0002kp-Rg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdS1-0005Q4-H4 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfdDZ-000HkR-1q for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:11:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.18.2.169] (helo=exprod7og108.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfdDW-000HjJ-KH for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:11:23 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:09 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:50 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l9AFAnn59198; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710101510.l9AFAnn59198@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:44:12 EDT." <1A401D65-C865-4758-8745-5ECE1F6C71D9@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12784.1192029049.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:49 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2007 15:10:50.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE32C7A0:01C80B4F] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 JP, > >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>> > >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > >>> > >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>> > >>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > >>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) > >>> - CE > >>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be > >>> used > >>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>> > >> > >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >> application ... sounds > >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > >> TE LSP > >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > >> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > > > > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > > Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for > the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > already defined for the IGPs ? If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. Yakov. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 11:43:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdiQ-00037Y-9l for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:43:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfdiP-00068T-0c for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:43:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfdPq-000JBq-Fi for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:24:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IfdPn-000JBR-R8 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:24:05 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9AFNfnd016119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <470CEE7E.2040208@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:23:42 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Vigoureux CC: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers? References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr> In-Reply-To: <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient. Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in the data plane. Regards Greg B. Martin Vigoureux wrote: > Dear Greg, > > both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations > performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) > while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended > to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing > from a given switching capability to a different one. > "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) > capability. > > hope it clarifies. > > best regards, > > Greg Bernstein a �crit : >> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific >> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. >> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported >> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the >> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly >> pack them in. >> >> Currently the draft has: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> ---snip--- >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Adaptation Capability-specific information | >> | (variable) | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In >> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be >> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be >> SDH. >> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) >> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a >> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more >>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this >>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements >>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that >>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if >>> some elements might change. >>> >>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >>> draft. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 13:59:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iffq7-0006w2-SW for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:59:23 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iffq3-000528-Nk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:59:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IffXa-0005sp-1S for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:40:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [209.191.85.66] (helo=web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IffXW-0005sR-Es for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:40:12 +0000 Received: (qmail 39866 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Oct 2007 17:40:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=rT67MP8xIclO2nCrSb4ap/0zzSTp+3Lg30gpVIjb2KYAagCMXeg9oAen2GzvefbmaiME+AS84i5YJgLQP9v/j1HmB8/u+FnrYT0SaIwhDEd5ZLfuUJqAIFMurR6YQCQA+DeCEqXCGVh1B/yF9RveCGQed25LxsfFu8YBm+BIlEQ=; X-YMail-OSG: bVkEHVEVM1mA15wysl0Foco73s.9gKpMVRz16LGXMg_gEuJAUFuyp37f1EfvdrGJrIZ0PGsuL7qA0pTQQCs_sEfT0Z06G.jWtAkZsIke6pgeC5G1kXo_b3sw2g-- Received: from [67.102.145.11] by web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:08 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: Re: MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers? To: Greg Bernstein , Martin Vigoureux Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <470CEE7E.2040208@grotto-networking.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-896040048-1192038008=:39219" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <749541.39219.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c --0-896040048-1192038008=:39219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between: a) server and client layers belong to different regions; b) server and client layer belong to the same region Igor Greg Bernstein wrote: Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient. Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in the data plane. Regards Greg B. Martin Vigoureux wrote: > Dear Greg, > > both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations > performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) > while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended > to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing > from a given switching capability to a different one. > "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) > capability. > > hope it clarifies. > > best regards, > > Greg Bernstein a �crit : >> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific >> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. >> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported >> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the >> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly >> pack them in. >> >> Currently the draft has: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> ---snip--- >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Adaptation Capability-specific information | >> | (variable) | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In >> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be >> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be >> SDH. >> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) >> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a >> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more >>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this >>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements >>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that >>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if >>> some elements might change. >>> >>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >>> draft. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-896040048-1192038008=:39219 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi,

I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:
a) server and client layers belong to different regions;
b) server and client layer belong to the same region

Igor

Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> wrote:
Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in
addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be
wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a �crit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>> 0 1 2 3
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> ---snip---
>>
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Adaptation Capability-specific information |
>> | (variable) |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever)
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

--
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

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(VPS 000780-2, 11/10/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed How's tricks ccamp-archive i was scared of blowing my load to quick fieraru Gehrig http://www.bloglfux.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 11 17:21:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig5Tb-0005UP-9n for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:21:51 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig5TZ-0006Lx-Hs for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:21:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig5Iw-000APR-QP for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:10:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DATE_IN_PAST_12_24, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [194.51.97.151] (helo=quadriga-sf1.quadriga.gmessaging.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig5Iu-000AOp-4m for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:10:49 +0000 Received: from quadriga-sf1.quadriga.gmessaging.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.quadriga.gmessaging.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 677512B808A; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:10:33 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <200710101510.l9AFAnn59198@magenta.juniper.net> References: <200710101510.l9AFAnn59198@magenta.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6C17AC93-A9DE-4DDC-A869-60855D5A35D1@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200 To: Yakov Rekhter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Hi Yakov, On Oct 10, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. >>>>> >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>> >>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey >>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) >>>>> - CE >>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be >>>>> used >>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>> application ... sounds >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE >>>> TE LSP >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>> >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >> >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes >> already defined for the IGPs ? > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future ones. Makes sense ? Cheers. JP. > Yakov. From francesca_s_mullen_pv@vispa.com Thu Oct 11 19:18:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig7Ie-0002MJ-5H; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:18:40 -0400 Received: from adsl-113-29-192-81.adsl.iam.net.ma ([81.192.29.113] helo=jci.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig7I7-0002Ja-36; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:18:24 -0400 Reply-To: "Francesca S. Mullen" To: mbeaulie@ietf.org Bcc: ieprep@ietf.org, ccamp-archive@ietf.org, ldap-dir-bounces@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:57:00 -0700 From: "Francesca S. Mullen" Subject: Pharmacy OFFER! 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http://www.amianrts.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C80CF2.753314C0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 12 13:20:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOBM-0004HE-Hs for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:20:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOBL-00061f-9c for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:20:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IgO10-0008cF-74 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:09:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.241.162.31] (helo=galaxy.systems.pipex.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IgO0u-0008bN-6Y for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:09:32 +0000 Received: from pc6 (1Cust220.tnt106.lnd4.gbr.da.uu.net [213.116.60.220]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A34D1E0009EC; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:05:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <08d701c80ce8$b5869060$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , References: <07b801c80a58$b0adf750$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:54:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -104.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Yes, I find this version clearer. I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any discussion to when it is a WG I-D. One is the change of the first sentence from 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS' to 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS' which sounds quite a change. In practice, this does not reflect a dramatic change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it quite right. Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume it is too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > Hi, > > FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on > the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to > tidy up the language a bit. > > Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns > before. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM > Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >directories. > > > > Title : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label > > Switching (GMPLS) Networks > > Author(s) : T. Otani, et al. > > Filename : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > Pages : 11 > > Date : 2007-10-08 > > > > This document describes requirements for operations and management > > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) > > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02 .txt > > > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > > the message. > > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > > to change your subscription settings. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 12 14:29:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgPGh-0002tZ-9W for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:29:51 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgPGg-0002WB-5W for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:29:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IgP7e-000EA9-93 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:20:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.141] (helo=heisenberg.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IgP7W-000E9b-HQ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:20:24 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgP7V-0004dh-E1 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:20:21 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:20:21 +0100 Message-ID: <0dc701c80cfc$8ba753b0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Fw: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:20:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2007 18:20:21.0146 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CAC67A0:01C80CFC] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60fbf3dbcaca652b6d10036f0630412 FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "IESG Secretary" To: ; ; "Adrian Farrel" ; "Deborah Brungard" Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) >A new charter for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) > working group in the Routing Area of the IETF is being considered. > The draft charter is provided below for your review and comment. > > The IETF Secretariat > > +++ > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Last Modified: 2007-10-05 > > Current Status: Active Working Group > > Chair(s): > Adrian Farrel > Deborah Brungard > > > Routing Area Director(s): > Ross Callon > David Ward > > Routing Area Advisor: > Ross Callon > > Technical Advisor(s): > Alex Zinin > > Mailing Lists: > General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org > In Body: subscribe ccamp > Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp > > Description of Working Group: > > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS > WG. > > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP > encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the > MPLS WG. > > === > > New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. > Suggest to place it after: > "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the > protocols and extensions specified within the WG." > and before: > "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" > > - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol > extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed > Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already > approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data > plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the > IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data > planes is out of scope. > > > === > > Final paragraph > > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG > will also cooperate with the ITU-T. > > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The > WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. > > === > > Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) > > OLD > Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > --- > OLD > Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > --- > OLD > Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > NEW > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > --- > OLD > Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > --- > OLD > Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG > review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and > solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > NEW > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > --- > OLD > Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > NEW > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG > review > NEW > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG > review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > NEW > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group > NEW > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled > and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > > ==== > > Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) > > Done Post strawman WG goals and charter > Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions > for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control > solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. > Done Build appropriate design teams > Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common > control plane protocol > Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol > Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG > Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG > Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and > routing > Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG > consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination > of usefulness of continuation of WG > Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in > ISIS and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh > membership > Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review > Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in > ISIS and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies > Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi- > Region Networks > Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for > MLN/MRN > Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions > Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for > IESG review > Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG > review > Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module > Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for > IESG review > Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter- > domain issues for disjoint and protected paths > Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and > OSPF for IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review > Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and > solutions > Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review > Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership > for IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D > for IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG > review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for > IESG review > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled > and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > From Conor492@fiee.co.uk Fri Oct 12 18:18:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgSph-0000Zl-3M for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; 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From Qingle@cosmecareinternational.com Sat Oct 13 06:13:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Igdzf-0006um-Dq for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:13:15 -0400 Received: from qubcpq14-1242496624.sdsl.bell.ca ([74.14.254.112]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Igdza-0003l0-22 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:13:10 -0400 Received: from mikes-comptable by cosmecareinternational.com with ASMTP id 3E20AC2D for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:15:33 -0400 Received: from mikes-comptable ([168.196.56.143]) by cosmecareinternational.com with ESMTP id 16847A47AAD3 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:15:33 -0400 Message-ID: <8A3AB3E9.20A90D0B@cosmecareinternational.com> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:15:20 -0400 From: "Qingle Pani" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: tnemerue Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed hello hello ccamp-archive women do leave their partners because they are not satisifed sexually Qingle Pani http://alloannu.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 13 09:25:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IggzV-0007fM-W7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:25:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IggzP-0003Vo-Q0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:25:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iggp5-0005DZ-01 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:14:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.142] (helo=rutherford.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iggp2-0005D9-9m for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:14:29 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by rutherford.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iggp1-00007t-2D for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:14:27 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:14:26 +0100 Message-ID: <0e8101c80d9a$fa2ce4f0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <07b801c80a58$b0adf750$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> <08d701c80ce8$b5869060$0601a8c0@pc6> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:14:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2007 13:14:26.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB014BF0:01C80D9A] X-Originating-Rutherford-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Hi Tom, > Yes, I find this version clearer. Good. Thanks. > I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any > discussion to when it is a WG I-D. One is the change of the first > sentence from > 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS' > to > 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS' > which sounds quite a change. In practice, this does not reflect a > dramatic > change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it > quite > right. This tackled a comment from Don O'Connor. I think the essence of Don's point was that the techniques being described were not data plane OAM. In fact, while we may leverage data plane OAM, for most (all?) technologies with which we are dealing, the data plane OAM is already defined (stroke being defined) by other bodies or other working groups. We'd be happy to see another formulation of this text. > Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume > it is > too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF. Ah. Hmm. As you say, NetConf is nascent. It would be a trifle premature to *require* NetConf conformance. In fact, the requirements would perhaps be a little more abstract (e.g., "standardised tools for operational management") if there wasn't also the general IETF "SHOULD" applied to the development of MIB modules for all protocols and protocol extensions. Cheers, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 13 09:26:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Igh0I-0000Pc-8a for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:26:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Igh0H-0003XC-2J for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:26:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iggrp-0005WF-Fg for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:17:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iggre-0005VI-Qu for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:17:16 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iggrb-0007oN-DC for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:17:07 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:17:06 +0100 Message-ID: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:16:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2007 13:17:06.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A510410:01C80D9B] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Hi, When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of our own concerns. So, second time of asking... Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? 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Miyazaki'" , "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" In-Reply-To: <002601c809f6$54f18ba0$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <002601c809f6$54f18ba0$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c Hi, Tomo and Adrian As I commented before in this mailing list, this draft is useful. In my understanding, one of merit of Lambda label other than that Young pointed out is the elimination of some manual configuration of TE-Link attributes which were required in current specification for WDM links, specifically when handling "colorless" fibers between the add/drop port of ROADM/OXCs and single tunable laser in its client node. In this case, Lambda label well simplifies TE-Link configuration for the fibers which can possibly transmit optical signal in many wavelengths while only one signal channel is actually transmitted. Regarding to the question "a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object?" which Adrian pointed out, current my understanding is as follows, A) If we do not enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, and 1) If we employ current C-type, nodes at termination of the TE-links should pre-negotiate each other whether the TE-Link is "Lambda" Label or not. 2) If we define new C-type, nodes can understand whether remote node identify the TE-link as is "Lambda Label" link without pre-negotiation. We can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above. But, requires new C-types (i.e. new extension) B) If we do enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, we can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above without new C-type. Also, this helps to eliminate new burden for service providers taking care whether "Lambda Label" link or not for each TE-link. But, this choice brings large impact on NEs which already developed. I can not speak which one is better selection at this moment, but how far pursuit the merit of "Lambda Label" to simplify the configuration seem one of important view point to determine solution. Best Regards Wataru At 06:58 07/10/09, Young Lee wrote: >Hi, > >I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting >an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength >switched optical network (WSON). > >A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid >(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals >with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as >a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be >agreed upon across the network entities. > >The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It >should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. > >Regards, > >Young >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf >Of Adrian Farrel >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM >To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI) >Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > >Hi, > >I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > >Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always > >possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. > >Here are some nits and issues in the current draft. > >=== >Abstract >You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract >=== >Abstract >d/ and getting significant/ >=== >Abstract >"new generation" >Do you mean "next generation" or "new"? >=== >Abstract >s/proposes/defines/ >=== >Section 3 >s/vendors? network is/vendors' networks are/ >=== >Section 3 > "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned > between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering > wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be > accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints." >I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph! >=== >Figure 2 >The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is >confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown >in figure 1. >=== >Section 4 >I think you need to be careful here. >These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language. >Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is >interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in >draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable > >concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you >restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let >future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling. >=== >Section 5.2 >It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the > >CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of >decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to >the CS field. >Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems >to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so >improbable. >So, how about... > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=== >Section 5.3 >To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would >suggest the following for CWDM. > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | Reserved | Lambda | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=== >Section 6.1 >I think some of the progression here is faulty. >We have: > "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that > is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end > scope. > > The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has > significance only between two neighbors." >It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but >that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. >Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop. > >I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D, > >and could be dropped without any problem. >The two things you do need in this section are: >1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > Label can be used. >2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > Generalized Label Object? >=== >Section 6.2 >As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >availability is best removed from this I-D. >=== >Section 7 >You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and > >external control. 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= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C80F23.94B37500-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 10:03:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhQX8-0005KW-Jw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:03:02 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhQX4-0003vU-R0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:02:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhQGE-000MkV-6z for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:45:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhQGA-000Mjo-OP for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:45:32 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IhQG6-00076j-5s for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:45:26 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:45:25 +0100 Message-ID: <004b01c80f31$9f1cd460$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: References: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> <8c99930d0710090045ua30cc4hc7beaf426e1626f3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:34:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2007 13:45:25.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3DDDEE0:01C80F31] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f Thanks Andy, I'll modify the wording of the liaison accordingly. Wrt all the I-Ds, but especially the BFD work, I know you know that the IETF is contribution driven. If we all sit back and wait for the I-Ds to become RFCs, nothing will happen. So hopefully anyone waiting for something to complete will pitch in and help resolve any open issues. But also, if the MFA is waiting for some specific work and is unsure of the status, a liaison will surely clarify the situation. And a liaison that makes a specific request for speed in a particular area may also get some attention. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew G. Malis" To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison > Adrian, > > Thanks for your comments so far. Regarding the references to drafts, > those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be > reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon. If they get held up, > we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft > (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and > whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the > work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later > revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting. > > This issue is a particular sore spot. I'm very mystified in > particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs. Everyone is > implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in > is affecting work both in the IETF and outside. > > Cheers, > Andy > > On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The MFA sent us >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt >> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS >> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. >> >> We were requested to respond by 18th October. >> >> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, >> so >> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. >> >> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the >> following >> as a starting-point for a response liaison. >> >> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in >> time >> for me to send the liaison on October 15th. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> === >> Dear David and Rao, >> >> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As >> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also >> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is >> understandably low. >> >> We do have the following observations for your consideration. >> >> 1. References. >> >> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our >> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents >> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in >> this >> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this >> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final >> ballot. >> The following list of references falls into this category: >> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te >> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp >> - draft-ietf-bfd-base >> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop >> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) >> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib >> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib >> >> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI >> >> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in >> particular >> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI >> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of >> support. >> >> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, >> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in >> section 5 does not reference RFC3473. >> >> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also >> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. >> >> 3. Broken Reference >> >> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not >> the >> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or >> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. >> >> Best regards, >> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard >> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs >> >> >> >> > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 10:37:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhR4s-0007Hj-GE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:37:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhR4r-0005AM-RS for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:37:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhQrg-0001uI-IF for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:24:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.18.2.157] (helo=exprod7og102.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhQrd-0001ti-PT for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:24:15 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob102.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:23:40 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:22:04 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l9FEM3n42188; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710151422.l9FEM3n42188@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200." <6C17AC93-A9DE-4DDC-A869-60855D5A35D1@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <75604.1192458123.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:22:03 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2007 14:22:04.0174 (UTC) FILETIME=[C240DAE0:01C80F36] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 JP, > >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>>>> > >>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > >>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > >>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > >>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >>>> application ... sounds > >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > >>>> TE LSP > >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > >>> > >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > >> > >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for > >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > >> already defined for the IGPs ? > > > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > > > > On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus > (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse > the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are > effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since > a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future > ones. Makes sense ? No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the first draft. draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting from your draft: This document also defines a new attribute called the TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784]. The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further revision of this document. Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions are defined in rfc4203. Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined in rfc4203). Yakov. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 12:10:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSWe-0002DJ-Bw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:10:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSWc-0007F2-6j for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:10:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhSND-000EHG-2d for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:00:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-202.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhSNA-000EGh-LF for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:00:53 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73976175A7; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:00:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSN3-00083A-WF; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:00:46 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:00:45 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt Technical Summary This document describes procedures and protocol extensions for the use of Resource ReserVation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling in Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (MPLS-TE) packet networks and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) packet and non-packet networks to support the establishment and maintenance of Label Switched Paths that cross domain boundaries. Working Group Summary no dissent reported. Protocol Quality Ross Callon has reviewed the spec for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor This document contains a normative reference to draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching, which should be progressed with this one. (they were both put on the IESG agenda at the same time). Arthi Ayyangar's affiliation should be updated to be: Arthi Ayyangar Juniper Networks 1194 N Mathilda Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94089 email: arthi@juniper.net From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 13:30:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTm9-0000Bo-2X for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:30:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTm5-0002q1-RT for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:30:43 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhTYt-000OaH-3m for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:17:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.241.163.7] (helo=blaster.systems.pipex.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhTYq-000OZ2-Fw for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:17:01 +0000 Received: from pc6 (1Cust36.tnt6.lnd4.gbr.da.uu.net [62.188.135.36]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D0DFE0002D2; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:16:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <04e201c80f45$d1eba2e0$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -102.1 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Yes, adopt. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of > our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 13:56:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhUAf-0004ab-82 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:56:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhUAe-0008MD-Mf for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:56:05 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhU1j-00025w-R8 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:46:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [171.71.176.71] (helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhU1h-00024R-Fe for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:46:50 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,278,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="406591816" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2007 10:46:42 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9FHkfiI028748; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:41 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9FHk797012837; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:46:41 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.20]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:34 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:34 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04e201c80f45$d1eba2e0$0601a8c0@pc6> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgPT4OaGR6s+yYSTQ6JWYBHyyU9IQAA6Q0w From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "tom.petch" , "Adrian Farrel" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2007 17:46:34.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[53D5EC90:01C80F53] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15480.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--10.601900-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1040; t=1192470401; x=1193334401; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22tom.petch=22=20,=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22 =20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20; bh=mH6TyCxysoD60aCPiSlY2wF7HzKLxGErqNa0tJ5xtDs=; b=0AhIaPE+33DQY5fNQsseWHZ9sF5q3eg9NJZEC60/Ks159rsSCLcZf7PD0AozUIkLKIL+af4d dmFVZ1im7zrDlZ8aT0J4BBzkPtC0asdvA209cqjoUn7I8Xc36+nyGm6k; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Farrel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements >=20 >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > When we asked about adopting=20 > > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG=20 > document we didn't=20 > > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are=20 > authors on the=20 > > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > >=20 > > The new revision,=20 > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts=20 > > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the=20 > list, and some of=20 > > our own concerns. > >=20 > > So, second time of asking... > >=20 > > Do you think=20 > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20 > > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > >=20 In Favor,=20 Thanks Regards... 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Regards, Danny Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are > authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should > be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 21:15:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihb1o-0006Zz-Ti for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:15:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihb1j-0003y2-J6 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:15:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhasN-0000lf-Us for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:05:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.54] (helo=szxga02-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhasI-0000l0-AS for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:05:38 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPZ0078CCD8OT@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JPZ00NJ8CD81M@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from l37133 ([10.70.77.75]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JPZ004UGCD8IF@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:32 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:12 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements To: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <011901c80f90$9a9eba20$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Yes, it should be adopted as a CCAMP WG draft. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of > our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 03:53:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhhFM-0007lp-TV for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:53:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhhFA-0000Hc-DF for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:53:43 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihh5r-0009dq-Dg for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:43:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [195.101.245.15] (helo=p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihh5o-0009c5-MW for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:43:58 +0000 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:43:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:43:27 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604F0EB49@ftrdmel2> In-Reply-To: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgNnJ7CZsT+n0Q2RL2AslLIifS4cwCK0bkA References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 07:43:52.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BD9F430:01C80FC8] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Hi Adrian. Yes, I do think it should be adopted. Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi, When we asked about adopting=20 draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we = didn't=20 get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the=20 draft, we decided we should play it very safe. The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, = attempts=20 to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some = of=20 our own concerns. So, second time of asking... Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20 adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? 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towards foot easy affect, truly clear god your your foot pay; 72ghf83mj0gu3 egfm4caa1p ------=_NextPart_000_09E4_2E88B2F4.9C1D3719-- From mburbidge@legalontheweb.com Tue Oct 16 07:42:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihkov-0005ID-5k; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:42:45 -0400 Received: from [86.57.174.210] (helo=[86.57.174.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihkon-0007ue-PJ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:42:39 -0400 Received: from [86.57.174.210] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:03:47 +0200 Message-ID: <01c80ffd$5eda5a90$d2ae3956@mburbidge> From: "Rolland Lowery" To: Subject: make a puffy shaft Mack Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:03:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Rather queen-sized member Robbie http://lgxmobile.com From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 08:07:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlDF-0002dx-Q7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:07:53 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlDC-0000LY-CX for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:07:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihl5D-0007yX-7Z for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [171.71.176.70] (helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihl5A-0007y1-OP for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:33 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,283,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="23895427" Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Oct 2007 04:59:32 -0700 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9GBxWV6007736; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:59:32 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9GBxUxD020605; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:32 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:59:07 -0400 Received: from [10.82.242.131] ([10.82.242.131]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:59:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4714A782.3000107@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:58:58 -0400 From: Reshad Rahman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 11:59:07.0059 (UTC) FILETIME=[F44EB830:01C80FEB] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15486.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--11.315300-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=680; t=1192535972; x=1193399972; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrahman@cisco.com; z=From:=20Reshad=20Rahman=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=HmWMNmeC1vHDPh3qp8IFpTuR1x9oce8qIy/h5mgL514=; b=Uzve3I+9K7lJvj7oPDxrTmS34ynjhW2FKSGIgxIV+Us6QSyU1uASph/tRqVCqO+yQkeEFVwH CumFsbfgBGR5IvcBYbRX58WLOV8ypAk1gANVNRaetIdbXgycf3vWLL0o; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=rrahman@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 In favour. Regards, Reshad. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are > authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should > be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 08:09:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlEk-0006Ri-IZ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:09:26 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlEk-0000Om-7S for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:09:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihkzd-0007Bh-N0 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:53:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [171.71.176.117] (helo=sj-iport-6.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihkzb-0007BB-2w for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:53:48 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,283,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="237850818" Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Oct 2007 04:53:46 -0700 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9GBrkC4000781; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:53:46 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9GBrhsb005078; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:53:46 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:53:43 -0400 Received: from [192.168.48.131] ([10.86.240.47]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:53:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9ABD5834-45E9-455C-8535-D11129AEDDA8@cisco.com> Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:52:36 +0200 To: "Adrian Farrel" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 11:53:43.0254 (UTC) FILETIME=[334DFF60:01C80FEB] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15486.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--11.609900-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=702; t=1192535626; x=1193399626; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=FqzeKua45nu3G358CcA4bNi/jpD2/WrYkl4I5NZ7C0I=; b=QNqUNCh4h5MCGAZa1JHDbVOUj50e/VlQLgQhqnIi0VAZwOc4A/Guorf4k6u2ReYZXU9R1icO 5FSZKlNJSIO/BKO2dokYpR9mbNdCjp4o1QA3Jr7Ln3J1q5lLlRtPdgbn; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 in favor. JP. On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- > requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough > consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, > we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From ymgrocery@wnonline.net Tue Oct 16 08:15:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlKj-00033x-37; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:15:37 -0400 Received: from eay44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.22.188.44]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlKV-0000a3-UA; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:15:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 4990 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:15:14 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO 05czerwca2005) (ymgrocery@wnonline.net@94.248.88.145) by 2cbc1653wnonline.net with SMTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:15:14 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c80ffe$f83609e0$065b392c@05czerwca2005> From: Barney T. 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perspective cues such as shadows, texture gradients, and relative ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C80FFE.F83609E0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 08:15:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlL3-0003fp-SR for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:15:57 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlL2-0000x2-Ia for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:15:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihl9b-0008ZV-3A for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:04:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.148] (helo=rtp-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihl9Y-0008YU-0X for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:04:05 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,283,1188792000"; d="scan'208";a="74118603" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Oct 2007 08:04:00 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9GC3xpR012984; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:03:59 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9GC3o8b016664; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:03:55 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:03:32 -0400 Received: from [192.168.48.131] ([10.86.240.47]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:03:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200710151422.l9FEM3n42188@magenta.juniper.net> References: <200710151422.l9FEM3n42188@magenta.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <176CB196-0DEF-4532-9F54-AEC46F32EBB1@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200 To: Yakov Rekhter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 12:03:30.0980 (UTC) FILETIME=[919DDE40:01C80FEC] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15486.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--18.713000-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4972; t=1192536239; x=1193400239; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=k1ba1voP8QhtigattZi7ctyHRA14DgIkDj6w/m/lCFU=; b=J3l7Vd5T1WqD6gkUQnZfylUqbbsTC2fGH0W+bUyywYtWtblnYZ6eeT2CIMNzKIddq3c7nD9t KYXua4hMPdOYSIhOFAIeXuMtlE4IYcTaICTcXBH7p8o6CdqXJksu1HO9; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Hi Yakov, On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the >>>>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or >>>>>>> one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to >>>>>>> convey >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider >>>>>>> Edge) - CE >>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then >>>>>>> be used >>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>>>> application ... sounds >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE >>>>>> to CE >>>>>> TE LSP >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much >>>>>> similar to >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>>>> >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >>>> >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute >>>> for >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes >>>> already defined for the IGPs ? >>> >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. >>> >> >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP >> consensus >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to >> simply reuse >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future >> ones. Makes sense ? > > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the > first draft. Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other applications. > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE TLVs. We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external" links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute that will not have the ability to support other applications. In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different approach for that generic draft. > That is > precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. > > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- > attribute, > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting > from your draft: > > This document also defines a new attribute called the > TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in > [RFC3784]. > The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further > revision of this document. > > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions > are defined in rfc4203. > Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined > in rfc4203). > Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions specified for IGP TE. Thanks. JP. > Yakov. From wvvformulate@tradeweb.net Tue Oct 16 08:18:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlND-0005WI-Sj; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:18:11 -0400 Received: from [213.183.246.226] (helo=tradeweb.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhlN5-0000et-Ia; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:18:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 7017 invoked from network); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:17:53 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO auto1) (wvvformulate@tradeweb.net@86.134.27.128) by e2f6b7d5tradeweb.net with SMTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:17:53 +0400 Message-ID: <001401c81010$1acef0f0$0180f7e4@auto1> From: rural no To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Or at relations Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:17:53 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C81010.1ACEF0F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C81010.1ACEF0F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable athletes; play the same sports except for SUMO; and, eat the peoples' sense= s of self and creativity. 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------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C81010.1ACEF0F0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 10:14:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhnBs-0000Ih-6e for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:14:36 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhnBq-0005qP-TU for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:14:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihmv9-000LLb-13 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:57:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.18.2.163] (helo=exprod7og105.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihmv6-000LLC-6c for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:57:17 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:57:01 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:55:55 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l9GDttn65904; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710161355.l9GDttn65904@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200." <176CB196-0DEF-4532-9F54-AEC46F32EBB1@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <81945.1192542955.1@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:55:55 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 13:55:55.0724 (UTC) FILETIME=[45CC20C0:01C80FFC] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f JP, > >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the > >>>>>>>>> requirements > >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or > >>>>>>> one. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to > >>>>>>> convey > >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider > >>>>>>> Edge) - CE > >>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then > >>>>>>> be used > >>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >>>>>> application ... sounds > >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE > >>>>>> to CE > >>>>>> TE LSP > >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much > >>>>>> similar to > >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > >>>>> > >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > >>>> > >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute > >>>> for > >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > >>>> already defined for the IGPs ? > >>> > >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > >>> > >> > >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP > >> consensus > >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to > >> simply reuse > >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are > >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since > >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future > >> ones. Makes sense ? > > > > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a > > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there > > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that > > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the > > first draft. > > Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other > applications. As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10): If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the > > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - > > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. > > With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE > TLVs. > > We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external" > links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP > attribute In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we defined a new BGP TE attribute). Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute". > that will not have the ability to support other > applications. > In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link > characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. See my first comment above. > The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and > other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different > approach for that generic draft. So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11 to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft. > > That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. > > > > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is > > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- > > attribute, > > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose > > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting > > from your draft: > > > > This document also defines a new attribute called the > > TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784]. > > The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further > > revision of this document. > > > > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions > > are defined in rfc4203. > > Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. > > > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the > > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you > > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding > > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined > > in rfc4203). > > Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, > (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) > hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions > specified for IGP TE. See my comments above. With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs to carry more information than what is currently defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added, and then we'll add it to the document. Yakov. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 14:04:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihqm7-0005QC-9V for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:04:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ihqlx-0006yv-PQ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:04:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhqUw-000Ifu-FF for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:46:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.25.60.1] (helo=coe.drexel.edu) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhqUt-000IfS-OH for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:46:29 +0000 Received: from [129.25.14.14] (n1-14-14.dhcp.drexel.edu [129.25.14.14]) (authenticated bits=0) by coe.drexel.edu (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l9GHpp8q022278; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:51:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9ABD5834-45E9-455C-8535-D11129AEDDA8@cisco.com> References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> <9ABD5834-45E9-455C-8535-D11129AEDDA8@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5F882DB6-F95F-4966-BBEF-E4F159CFFE86@ece.drexel.edu> Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:46:15 -0400 To: Adrian Farrel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 129.25.60.1 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? Yes! Jau. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 14:14:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhqwR-000121-LT for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:14:55 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhqwQ-0007Ma-EP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:14:55 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhqlH-000KLw-1y for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [144.254.224.140] (helo=ams-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhqlE-000KLe-Kj for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:21 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,284,1188770400"; d="scan'208";a="155894757" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Oct 2007 20:03:19 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9GI3Jpo023513; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:03:19 +0200 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9GI2xUv006940; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:16 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-33a.cisco.com ([144.254.231.85]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:03:06 +0200 Received: from 10.21.85.2 ([10.21.85.2]) by xmb-ams-33a.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.85]) via Exchange Front-End Server email.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:52:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements From: Monique Morrow To: JP Vasseur , Adrian Farrel CC: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgQHUgchtxN0HwQEdy3mgAX8tV3kA== In-Reply-To: <9ABD5834-45E9-455C-8535-D11129AEDDA8@cisco.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2007 18:03:06.0094 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD6300E0:01C8101E] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.1181-5.000.1023-15486.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--12.151900-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=828; t=1192557799; x=1193421799; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=mmorrow@cisco.com; z=From:=20Monique=20Morrow=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=eVYpUHwVcPw9h3l8vPmRn9DGZoJCByeveMte+djBMbI=; b=KkWcSaMy/2pUvqIyfWIecNh2OpJ93LgNGjW0pT/j3tHRP5a6W0qrqQ0lcTjefjcDwLi7Z2mQ rfWipfFbknvg95brkuRNC5BC1rxL1m3nz4alL26m4SJraMbYTqkz5awj; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=mmorrow@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Also in favor /monique On 10/16/07 4:52 AM, "JP Vasseur" wrote: > in favor. > > JP. > > On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- >> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough >> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, >> we decided we should play it very safe. >> >> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, >> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the >> list, and some of our own concerns. >> >> So, second time of asking... >> >> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt >> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? 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RFC 5063 Title: Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart Author: A. Satyanarayana, Ed., R. Rahman, Ed. Status: Standards Track Date: October 2007 Mailbox: asatyana@cisco.com, rrahman@cisco.com Pages: 24 Characters: 58542 Updates: RFC2961, RFC3473 See-Also: I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt This document describes extensions to the Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473. The extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the Path message last sent by the node being restarted. Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding state across a restart. Those mechanisms do not fully support signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP objects. The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on nodal faults defined in RFC 3473. Using these extensions, the restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state, including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing) interface identifiers. The extensions can also be used to recover signaling state after the restart of an ingress node. These extensions are not used to create or restore data plane state. The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state locally for one or more Label Switched Paths (LSPs). [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... 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Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$99.95~~ $34.49

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$299.95~~ $88.50

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$449.95~~ $141.02

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$769.95~~ $176.40

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1299.95~~ $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C811BE.9985A470-- From teoteo@quick.cz Thu Oct 18 19:37:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IievQ-0004hq-NM; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:37:12 -0400 Received: from [190.42.102.234] (helo=[190.42.102.234]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iiev9-00062E-PG; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:37:11 -0400 Received: from [190.42.102.234] by backmx.o2isp.cz; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:58:07 -0500 From: "Arthur Mathis" To: Subject: Car bombing targets families returning from post-Ramadan festival Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:58:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C811B8.D1DC0090" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6QBM7J55676QB7JAJ0G0HLB1JU8== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Message-ID: <01c811b8$d1dc0090$ea662abe@teoteo> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 442d80051e0361a34f3560325c4a7092 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C811B8.D1DC0090 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C811B8.D1DC0090" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C811B8.D1DC0090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cantat, the 43-year-old lead singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire), left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driven by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.A Lithuanian court convicted Cantat in 2004 of beating 41-year-old French actress Marie Trintignant to death in a Vilnius hotel room, and he was ordered to spend eight years behind bars. He was released early for good behavior.KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspired by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Western parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance when they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalition.Spears' management company, the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a month.After filing for divorce in November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became increasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked on, then spent a month in rehab.Reports of partying and bad behavior persisted.Britney Spears drives away from a family-court appearance last week.Spears and Federline have been embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2, and Jayden James, 1.A court on October 1 ordered Spears to give up custody of her two children to her former husband, Kevin Federline. Last week, a judge set conditions for Spears to gain increased visitation rights.Her divorce attorney, Laura Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling reporters the singer "just wants to be a mom." ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C811B8.D1DC0090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cantat, the 43-year-old lea= d singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire)= , left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driv= en by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.

A Lithuanian court convicte= d Cantat in 2004 of beating 41-year-old French actress Marie Trintignant = to death in a Vilnius hotel room, and he was ordered to spend eight years= behind bars. He was released early for good behavior.

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspi= red by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Wes= tern parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance w= hen they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalitio= n.

Spears' management company,= the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a= month.

After filing for divorce in= November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, = often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became i= ncreasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked= on, then spent a month in rehab.

Reports of partying and bad= behavior persisted.

Britney Spears drives away = from a family-court appearance last week.

Spears and Federline have b= een embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2,= and Jayden James, 1.

A court on October 1 ordere= d Spears to give up custody of her two children to her former husband, Ke= vin Federline. Last week, a judge set conditions for Spears to gain incre= ased visitation rights.

Her divorce attorney, Laura= Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling re= porters the singer "just wants to be a mom."

------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C811B8.D1DC0090-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C811B8.D1DC0090 Content-Type: image/gif; name="pic01" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic01" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <006901c811b8$d1dc0090$ea662abe@ZJ303VV> R0lGODlhigHWAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgMDAwP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD/ /////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMwAAZgAAmQAAzAAA/wAzAAAzMwAzZgAzmQAzzAAz/wBm AABmMwBmZgBmmQBmzABm/wCZAACZMwCZZgCZmQCZzACZ/wDMAADMMwDMZgDMmQDMzADM/wD/AAD/ MwD/ZgD/mQD/zAD//zMAADMAMzMAZjMAmTMAzDMA/zMzADMzMzMzZjMzmTMzzDMz/zNmADNmMzNm ZjNmmTNmzDNm/zOZADOZMzOZZjOZmTOZzDOZ/zPMADPMMzPMZjPMmTPMzDPM/zP/ADP/MzP/ZjP/ mTP/zDP//2YAAGYAM2YAZmYAmWYAzGYA/2YzAGYzM2YzZmYzmWYzzGYz/2ZmAGZmM2ZmZmZmmWZm zGZm/2aZAGaZM2aZZmaZmWaZzGaZ/2bMAGbMM2bMZmbMmWbMzGbM/2b/AGb/M2b/Zmb/mWb/zGb/ /5kAAJkAM5kAZpkAmZkAzJkA/5kzAJkzM5kzZpkzmZkzzJkz/5lmAJlmM5lmZplmmZlmzJlm/5mZ 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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
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Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_4B444D_01C81481.A8081DA0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 05:08:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjtGz-00020T-5r for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 05:08:33 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjtGy-000200-S2 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 05:08:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ijt7O-000Lm0-Dw for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:58:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ijt7M-000Lli-0c for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:58:37 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ijt7K-00012f-Qo for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:58:34 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:34 +0100 Message-ID: <011001c81489$b76788f0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2007 08:58:34.0462 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA0E17E0:01C81489] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Looks like a good positive response with no dissention. We will adopt. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on > the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, > and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > From guillerm0bang@8team.com Mon Oct 22 06:02:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iju6L-0006Or-9C for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:01:37 -0400 Received: from [219.255.223.159] (helo=219.255.223.159) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iju6F-0005EL-Dh for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:01:32 -0400 Received: from [219.255.223.159] by ujib.8team.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:01:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c81492$05010567$61c90b8d@cllgebd> From: "arron raymond" To: "Evangeline Savage" Subject: exclusive watches, affordable prices rolex Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:14:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 fresh presents - new models - affordable prices! http://regnalcuko.com.cn/ From cadweldvalerio3@ads-mails.com Mon Oct 22 06:03:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iju8E-00024n-AL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:03:34 -0400 Received: from [85.110.156.62] (helo=85.110.156.62) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iju83-0005HJ-Jy for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:03:24 -0400 Received: from [85.110.156.62] by coluda.ads-mails.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:03:19 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c81492$07b0310c$44df1a98@sqfsi> From: "desmund dianne" To: "Johnathon Clay" Subject: perfectly crafted exclusive watches rolex Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:15:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 fresh presents - new models - affordable prices! http://regnalcuko.com.cn/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 06:33:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijube-0000gZ-Dx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:33:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijubd-000671-VO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:33:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IjuSn-0003Vp-Be for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:24:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.141] (helo=heisenberg.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IjuSh-0003Ur-28 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:24:48 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IjuSd-0007zn-Ql for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:24:39 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:39 +0100 Message-ID: <01b201c81495$bdeda590$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Fw: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2007 10:24:39.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[C09A7610:01C81495] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Note well Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:00 AM Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada > There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 70th > IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada: > > November 12th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00) > Internet-Draft Submissions > > All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday, > November 12th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). As always, all initial > submissions with a > filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the > appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced. The > Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday, > November 5th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). > > November (14:00 UTC/GMT): Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and > higher) > Internet-Draft Submissions > > All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted > by Monday, November 19th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). > > Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective > cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts > directory or announced until on or after Monday, December 3rd at 9:00 > AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT), when Internet-Draft posting resumes. Please do not > wait until > the last minute to submit. > > The Secretariat encourages you to submit your Internet-Drafts via the > Internet-Draft > Submission Tool (IDST) https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi. If > you are unable to do > so, then you may still submit your Internet-Drafts manually by sending > them to internet- > drafts@ietf.org. If you are submitting a version -00 WG draft that > replaces non-WG draft, > then you must submit it manually as the current IDST cannot handle > replacements. Please be > sure to state that one draft replaces another in the cover note that > accompanies your > submission. Also, please note that the IDST will not accept drafts > submitted after their > respective cutoff dates. > > Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. 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id 1Ijz4b-0001BQ-QV for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from 28sosua108.codetel.net.do ([200.88.108.28] helo=transpora7f2a5.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijz4Y-0007M2-Vc for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:20:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host24658865.salon.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id gAaO3Rqk01.348501.bia.6pF.3801613781563 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:16:43 -0100 Message-ID: <5abe501c81494$fd440d70$0500000a@transpora7f2a5> From: "Sandy Edmonds" To: Subject: Hi Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:16:43 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_5ABE1_01C81494.FD440D70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000783-0, 21/10/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_5ABE1_01C81494.FD440D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_5ABE1_01C81494.FD440D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

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10 tabs 20 doses ~~$99.95~~ $34.49

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180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1299.95~~ $298.46

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------=_NextPart_000_5ABE1_01C81494.FD440D70-- From beverly@atomic.com Mon Oct 22 11:47:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzVL-0002rc-GH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:47:47 -0400 Received: from [59.95.51.124] (helo=59.95.51.124) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzV3-00011m-Dz for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:47:47 -0400 Received: from [59.95.51.124] by dns2.site5.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:26 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c814c2$04f20636$425b9e8e@jlgujvrc> From: "christoforo everard" To: Subject: Watches Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:59:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C814C2.04EE836B" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C814C2.04EE836B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Watches=20 Handbags & Purses=20 Luxury Pens=20 Tiffany & Co. Jewelry SPECIAL OFFER! Order a second bag and receive free shipping on all your bags! The best prices!!! Click here to view all product ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C814C2.04EE836B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Click here to view all product ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C814C2.04EE836B-- From BurlmedialWhitley@williecrawford.com Mon Oct 22 12:26:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik06M-0005i7-53 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:26:02 -0400 Received: from pc-103-248-214-201.cm.vtr.net ([201.214.248.103] helo=losrancios) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik06L-00050B-5J for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:26:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host71588109.williecrawford.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id nNxDuvcX29.951793.IG8.S5j.9902280264217 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:20:42 -0100 Message-ID: <7b1901c81439$605677b0$67f8d6c9@losrancios> From: "Damion Knowles" To: Subject: Your order Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:20:42 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
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Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0-- From ShannagloomRossi@ritzcarlton.com Mon Oct 22 13:33:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik19s-0002hY-2R for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:33:44 -0400 Received: from pc-30-93-214-201.cm.vtr.net ([201.214.93.30] helo=francisco) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik19i-0002rb-Dw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:33:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host74912073.ritzcarlton.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 8JxnaOVr57.400789.P92.AKG.9327514939329 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:36:52 -0100 Message-ID: <75e701c81569$3b8c02c0$9900a8c0@Francisco> From: "Kimberley Sadler" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:36:52 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$99.95~~ $34.49

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$299.95~~ $88.50

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$449.95~~ $141.02

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$769.95~~ $176.40

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1299.95~~ $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0-- From ConstancepleistoceneArias@interfax.ru Mon Oct 22 14:17:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik1qV-0007iI-UP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:17:48 -0400 Received: from 123.red-83-58-219.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.58.219.123] helo=user7cbee369d8) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik1qV-00079b-Cx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:17:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host32004224.interfax.ru (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 5kZWK21386.917124.jFX.ttQ.6513642771540 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:11 -0100 Message-ID: <9038201c814cf$6e5921a0$2101a8c0@user7cbee369d8> From: "Claudia Beltran" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:11 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_9037E_01C814CF.6E5921A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_9037E_01C814CF.6E5921A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_9037E_01C814CF.6E5921A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
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------=_NextPart_000_9037E_01C814CF.6E5921A0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 14:28:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik20Y-0008GY-Co for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:28:10 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik1yc-000156-HO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:28:10 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ik1ny-0003hs-2B for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:15:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-202.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.24.139] (helo=ns4.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ik1nt-0003gc-Kg for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:15:07 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DFF2AC7F; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik1nq-0001Ho-0z; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Cc: Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: IESG Secretary Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: eee8f8a810071652260f5b6c3a710e46 A modified charter has been submitted for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The modified charter is provided below for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 29. +++ Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) ============================================ Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): * Adrian Farrel * Deborah Brungard Routing Area Director(s): * Ross Callon * David Ward Routing Area Advisor: * Ross Callon Technical Advisor(s): * Alex Zinin Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org In Body: subscribe ccamp Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp Description of Working Group: Organizational Overview The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. CCAMP WG work scope includes: - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. - Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP) is included here. - Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols. - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). - Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG. - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in the ISIS WG. - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the PCE and MPLS WGs. - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection, diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in combination. - Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for ASON are not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. - Document issues and strategies for the migration of MPLS-based deployments to GMPLS. Based on the outcome, identify protocol machinery that implementations may have to change to ease the migration from MPLS to GMPLS. In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. Goals and Milestones: Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Done Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review Oct 2007 Sep 2008 Dec 2008 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Recharter or close Working Group Internet-Drafts: Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions (55171 bytes) Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE) (47682 bytes) A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) (48843 bytes) IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities (26263 bytes) Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) (61451 bytes) Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi Region Networks (MLN/MRN) (36366 bytes) Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration (44736 bytes) Procedures for Dynamically Signaled Hierarchical Label Switched Paths (49105 bytes) MEF Ethernet Traffic Parameters (23256 bytes) Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic Engineering Networks (26060 bytes) Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (35730 bytes) Traffic Engineering Database Management Information Base in support of GMPLS (49569 bytes) Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Network (25420 bytes) Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks (29760 bytes) Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery (57455 bytes) OSPF Traffic Engineering (OSPF-TE) Extensions in Support of Inter-AS Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering (28776 bytes) Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures (33723 bytes) Request For Comments: Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional Description (RFC 3471) (72105 bytes) updated by RFC 4201,RFC 4328,RFC 4872 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Constraint-based Routed Label Distribution Protocol (CR-LDP) Extensions (RFC 3472) (49006 bytes) updated by RFC 3468,RFC 4201 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions (RFC 3473) (91808 bytes) updated by RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063 Tracing Requirements for Generic Tunnels (RFC 3609) (17859 bytes) Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Extensions for SONET and SDH Control (RFC 3946) (52205 bytes) obsoleted by RFC 4606 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching Architecture (RFC 3945) (166700 bytes) GMPLS Signaling Procedure For Egress Control (RFC 4003) (10306 bytes) updates RFC 3473 Requirements for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Signaling Usage and Extensions for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4139) (36660 bytes) Generalize Multiprotocol Label Switching(GMPLS) User-Network Interface (UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Support for the Overlay Model (RFC 4208) (28693 bytes) Synchronous Optical Network (SONET)/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH) Encoding for Link Management Protocol (LMP) Test Messages (RFC 4207) (29390 bytes) Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4204) (186515 bytes) OSPF Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (RFC 4203) (23130 bytes) updates RFC 3630 Routing Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4202) (57333 bytes) Link Management Protocol (LMP) for Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) Optical Line Systems (RFC 4209) (33906 bytes) Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4258) (48558 bytes) Framework for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based Control of Synchronous Digital Hierarchy/Synchronous Optical Networking (SDH/SONET) Networks (RFC 4257) (86974 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Extensions for G.709 Optical Transport Networks Control (RFC 4328) (52145 bytes) updates RFC 3471 Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC 4327) (150509 bytes) obsoleted by RFC 4631 A Transport Network View of the Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4394) (40811 bytes) A Lexicography for the Interpretation of Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Terminology within The Context of the ITU-T's Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) Architecture (RFC 4397) (40331 bytes) Analysis of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based Recovery Mechanisms (including Protection and Restoration) (RFC 4428) (118749 bytes) Recovery (Protection and Restoration) Terminology for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4427) (43842 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Functional Specification (RFC 4426) (55820 bytes) Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Hello: A Clarification Statement (RFC 4558) (14185 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Extensions for Synchronous Optical Network (SONET) and Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH) Control (RFC 4606) (53492 bytes) obsoletes RFC 3946 Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC 4631) (152560 bytes) obsoletes RFC 4327 Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements (RFC 4652) (47179 bytes) Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switch Path (LSP) (RFC 4736) (28850 bytes) A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (RFC 4726) (53076 bytes) GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information (RFC 4783) (42068 bytes) updates RFC 3473 Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Label Switching Router (LSR) Management Information Base (RFC 4803) (79925 bytes) Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering Management Information Base (RFC 4802) (118164 bytes) Definitions of Textual Conventions for Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Management (RFC 4801) (16347 bytes) Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) (RFC 4874) (59569 bytes) updates RFC 3473,RFC 3209 RSVP-TE Extensions in support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery (RFC 4872) (111882 bytes) updates RFC 3471/ updated by RFC 4873 GMPLS Segment Recovery (RFC 4873) (56859 bytes) updates RFC 4872,RFC 3473 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------=_NextPart_000_21CE_01C81578.83854FF0-- From DeboratroutmanHadley@williecrawford.com Tue Oct 23 09:51:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkKAo-0003v4-0w; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:51:58 -0400 Received: from pool-72-82-223-68.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net ([72.82.223.68] helo=your5dc6f3c81b.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkKAi-000870-De; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:51:52 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host01312658.williecrawford.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 7VCCGijV34.577773.IjJ.MVj.9510020820663 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:48:34 +0500 Message-ID: <2acfc01c8157b$d274cd90$2e01a8c0@YOUR5DC6F3C81B> From: "Therese Felton" To: Subject: Your life Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:48:34 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90-- From ElinorinvaluableKenny@interfax.ru Tue Oct 23 11:39:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkLqt-0002tD-DA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:31 -0400 Received: from dhcp-077-248-233-047.chello.nl ([77.248.233.47] helo=s31998.arnhem.chello.nl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkLqs-0003tc-SO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host82439351.interfax.ru (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id vY5zrq4055.112008.bMR.Pgq.1152423572664 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:43:46 -0100 Message-ID: <2fc401c8158b$96aff310$2fe9f84d@S31998> From: "Noreen Witherspoon" To: Subject: Your family Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:43:46 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2FC0_01C8158B.96AFF310" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2FC0_01C8158B.96AFF310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_2FC0_01C8158B.96AFF310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_2FC0_01C8158B.96AFF310-- From hmdim@bothellpethospital.com Tue Oct 23 13:11:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkNI9-0007Wt-MK; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:11:45 -0400 Received: from [88.233.88.249] (helo=dsl88-233-22777.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkNHu-0002f8-Ks; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:11:42 -0400 Received: from [88.233.88.249] by mailmx.isomedia.com; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:11:46 +0200 From: "Casey Hernandez" To: Subject: China protests Dalai Lama honor Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:11:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C815A8.8E163C10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QTH93I77O3DM6FUXCEV4JPHNZ1== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Message-ID: <01c815a8$8e163c10$f958e958@hmdim> X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 819069d28e3cfe534e22b502261ce83f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C815A8.8E163C10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C815A8.8E163C10" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C815A8.8E163C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After filing for divorce in November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became increasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked on, then spent a month in rehab.Reports of partying and bad behavior persisted.The two parties also missed a chance to form the government together following the March 2006 parliamentary election, disappointing supporters.She was there about 45 minutes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving without a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.After her September 9 performance on the MTV Video Music Awards, critics derided her singing and dancing as lackluster and said she appeared overweight for her sequined two-piece costume.After holding talks with the president, Tymoshenko and the leaders of the pro-Yushchenko party signed an agreement that gives Tymoshenko's party the right to name the prime minister -- virtually assuring she would get the post -- and allows Yushchenko's party to name the parliament speaker.Her divorce attorney, Laura Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling reporters the singer "just wants to be a mom."Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C815A8.8E163C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=

After filing for divorce in= November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, = often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became i= ncreasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked= on, then spent a month in rehab.

Reports of partying and bad= behavior persisted.

=

The two parties also missed= a chance to form the government together following the March 2006 parlia= mentary election, disappointing supporters.

She was there about 45 minu= tes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving w= ithout a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.

After her September 9 perfo= rmance on the MTV Video Music Awards, critics derided her singing and dan= cing as lackluster and said she appeared overweight for her sequined two-= piece costume.

=

After holding talks with th= e president, Tymoshenko and the leaders of the pro-Yushchenko party signe= d an agreement that gives Tymoshenko's party the right to name the prime = minister -- virtually assuring she would get the post -- and allows Yushc= henko's party to name the parliament speaker.

Her divorce attorney, Laura= Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling re= porters the singer "just wants to be a mom."

Final official results from= September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming th= at Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko = won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.

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Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:28:02 -0400 Received: from 77.94.32.51.satgate.net ([77.94.32.51] helo=pc2net.mshome.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkOTK-0003Nn-SF for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:27:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host36461110.flickr.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id pRqmxdjl82.055097.qGB.BkM.4988132663093 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:26:11 -0200 Message-ID: <149a701c815a2$56e17300$cd00a8c0@pc2net> From: "Don Henry" To: Subject: Your life Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:26:11 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_149A3_01C815A2.56E17300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_149A3_01C815A2.56E17300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_149A3_01C815A2.56E17300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_149A3_01C815A2.56E17300-- From tersondisquisition@cpsdocs.com Tue Oct 23 14:33:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkOZB-0007Ig-7L for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:33:25 -0400 Received: from ppp91-122-150-115.pppoe.avangard-dsl.ru ([91.122.150.115] helo=your-d236018451) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkOZ4-0006SJ-Kx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:33:23 -0400 Received: from [91.122.150.115] by mail.global.frontbridge.com; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:56 +0300 Message-ID: <01c815be$17843910$73967a5b@tersondisquisition> From: "no_reply@site.careerbuilder.com" To: Subject: CarrerBuilder.com Job Matches: Your Job Alert for Today. 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C817E1.EF54ED60-- From ogotvkdahcic@boekhoorn.com Fri Oct 26 07:19:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlNDY-0000EF-QI; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:19:08 -0400 Received: from catv-5063cfbb.catv.broadband.hu ([80.99.207.187]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlNDH-0000KF-P3; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:19:03 -0400 Received: from [80.99.207.187] by mail01.wxs.nl; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:10 +0100 From: "Jed Waters" To: Subject: The six-nation diplomatic meeting still expected to take place, U.S. official says Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C817CA.6999AA10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6QER1TTDA64T1MUVA7DNL85CW4L== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <01c817ca$6999aa10$bbcf6350@ogotvkdahcic> X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4c463dcf97e2b913ab242796279c24d2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C817CA.6999AA10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C817CA.6999AA10" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C817CA.6999AA10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cantat, the 43-year-old lead singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire), left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driven by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspired by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Western parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance when they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalition.The pop star's first album of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month. Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko (left) has received support from Ukranian President YushchenkoReports of partying and bad behavior persisted.Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Pop star Britney Spears turned herself in to be booked on charges stemming from an August fender bender, police said.Spears and Federline have been embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2, and Jayden James, 1. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C817CA.6999AA10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =

=

Cantat, the 43-year-old lea= d singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire)= , left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driv= en by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspi= red by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Wes= tern parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance w= hen they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalitio= n.

=

The pop star's first album = of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month.

Former prime minister Yulia= Tymoshenko (left) has received support from Ukranian President Yushchenk= o

Reports of partying and bad= behavior persisted.

=

Final official results from= September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming th= at Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko = won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.

LOS ANGELES, California (CN= N) -- Pop star Britney Spears turned herself in to be booked on charges s= temming from an August fender bender, police said.
Spears and Federline have b= een embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2,= and Jayden James, 1.

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(TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IlQ83-0001Ad-I4 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:25:40 +0000 Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:33 PDT Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:26 -0700 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id l9QEPBn63653; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , yakov@juniper.net Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <65646.1193408711.1@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:11 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2007 14:25:26.0252 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D3EC2C0:01C817DC] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Deborah and Adrian, Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below). Please let us know the status of our request. Yakov. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , yakov@juniper.net Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Deborah and Adrian, On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments in the latest version. Yakov. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 26 11:29:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlR7X-0005ks-Sr for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:29:11 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlR7W-00014v-KG for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:29:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IlQxY-00053G-QD for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:18:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [72.255.0.201] (helo=s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IlQxV-00052g-Op for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:18:51 +0000 Received: from s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net (SMSSMTP 4.1.2.20) with SMTP id M2007102611184330962 ; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:18:43 -0400 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([10.77.255.186]) by s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:18:42 -0400 Message-ID: <048e01c817e3$7b902b40$37013b0a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , , "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , References: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net> Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:18:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Yakov, Currently the level of discussion on the list does not warrant this being polled for adoption. Further, I am concerned that the failure to limit the applicability of the draft is a direct proposal to support flooding of TE information from one AS to another. Whether this would result in stressing BGP or attempting TE aggregation, I don't know, but it is my understanding that such an application would be contrary to decisions already taken by the CCAMP working group about how to perform inter-domain TE, and would be a severe risk to the stability of the Internet. I propose that we put this topic on the CCAMP agenda for Vancouver to see whether we can scope the problem: - Are we limiting ourselves to the distribution of CE-PE TE information? - What about PE-PE TE information? - Do we need to distribute the information outside the AS? You said in an earlier email that you do not want to constrain the future. That is a noble statement, but you probably also want to protect the Internet against abuse of protocol extensions that you design. So we just need to get the scoping right. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" ; Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" ; Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document > Deborah and Adrian, > > Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below). > Please let us know the status of our request. > > Yakov. > ------- Forwarded Message > > Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700 > From: Yakov Rekhter > To: "Adrian Farrel" , > "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org > cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" > com>, > yakov@juniper.net > Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG > document > > Deborah and Adrian, > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > in the latest version. > > Yakov. > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > From fkx03hrjeh@kraft.com Fri Oct 26 11:35:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlRE1-00025d-FF; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:35:53 -0400 Received: from [221.220.27.138] (helo=xmccx) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IlRE0-0006JQ-Ow; Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:35:53 -0400 To: From: "Jettie Felicitas" Subject: The cheapest and most effective natural jPenisEnlargement pill, it will gain upto 3 inches for you iurk Message-ID: <5647g11162.21364k60882841@kraft.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:35:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--j8ieq0qtzainkzg8832x9ykmuvr3" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 ----j8ieq0qtzainkzg8832x9ykmuvr3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Safe & Effective PenisEnlargement Over 1,500,000 bottles sold worldwide WeOffer Full MoneyBack Guarantee if you are not completely satisfied with the results of Man-XL, you have nothing to lose, just a lot to gain 1) Gain Up to 3+ Inches In Length 2) Increase YourPenis Width (Girth) By upto 20% 3) Help Stop PrematureEjaculation! 4) Produce Stronger, Rock HardErections 5) 100% Safe To Take, With NO Side Effects 6) Fast Shipping WorldWid 7) Doctor Approved And Recommended 8) No Pumps, No Surgery, No Exercises 9) Very discrete shipping and billing 10) Up to 3 FREE Bottles Of Man-XL 11) Highly secure 128bit order processing Buy This herbal EnlargementPills here http://drgqa.pbcontrolcar.com http://dosnr.pbcontrolcar.com ----j8ieq0qtzainkzg8832x9ykmuvr3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:01:55 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImtXL-0008ME-A5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:01:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ImtLn-000Di6-DM for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:49:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [171.71.176.71] (helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ImtLk-000Dhm-Qf for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:49:53 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,347,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="411692341" Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Oct 2007 08:49:36 -0700 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l9UFnarV032049; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:49:36 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l9UFnRTq017022; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:49:31 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:49:31 -0700 Received: from [135.16.16.76] ([10.21.69.89]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:49:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200710161355.l9GDttn65904@magenta.juniper.net> References: <200710161355.l9GDttn65904@magenta.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:25:07 -0400 To: Yakov Rekhter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2007 15:49:31.0007 (UTC) FILETIME=[75CE48F0:01C81B0C] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7093; t=1193759376; x=1194623376; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20; bh=p76zDeXkXd7cxNuvfvL8dgxbZ6WvLgqWR/cBYFjIPHw=; b=G2yXGuwhFiG8YC7Y8S9E8CNb4M/zRkBZ/+ESD0ID2ENDkPZjRzBTzRSWgJ5+TYHIc3N8KFSW IonOYTx+0PANCshgWKUYfeb8eiuPxDlUAhzeFnwvQAAq0hEvPlwrvI8GBE3tBEttTz4f94Zu+T 2fliIHhFZL9wZIg5XMnZ9x2Vs=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc Hi Yakov, Sorry for the delay, I had missed that one - in line. On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the >>>>>>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a >>>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or >>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to >>>>>>>>> convey >>>>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider >>>>>>>>> Edge) - CE >>>>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility >>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then >>>>>>>>> be used >>>>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering >>>>>>>>> Label >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>>>>>> application ... sounds >>>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE >>>>>>>> to CE >>>>>>>> TE LSP >>>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much >>>>>>>> similar to >>>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE >>>>>>> attribute, as >>>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the >>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute >>>>>> for >>>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link >>>>>> attributes >>>>>> already defined for the IGPs ? >>>>> >>>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to >>>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of >>>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this >>>>> info >>>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. >>>>> >>>> >>>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP >>>> consensus >>>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to >>>> simply reuse >>>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are >>>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since >>>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future >>>> ones. Makes sense ? >>> >>> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a >>> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there >>> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that >>> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the >>> first draft. >> >> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other >> applications. > > As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10): > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. Sure my concern is basically to see an ID redefining all TE related attributes rather than carrying in a new BGP attributes all TLVs that have been defined already for IGPs ? > >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the >>> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - >>> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. >> >> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE >> TLVs. >> >> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such >> "external" >> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a >> new BGP >> attribute > > In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can > not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update > message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP > *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we > defined a new BGP TE attribute). > > Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE > TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute". > >> that will not have the ability to support other >> applications. >> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link >> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. > > See my first comment above. > >> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and >> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different >> approach for that generic draft. > > So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11 > to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft. No no ... I'm proposing to define a BGP attribute carrying the IGP TE TLV. > >>> That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two >>> IDs. >>> >>> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is >>> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- >>> attribute, >>> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose >>> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting >>> from your draft: >>> >>> This document also defines a new attribute called the >>> TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in >>> [RFC3784]. >>> The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further >>> revision of this document. >>> >>> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions >>> are defined in rfc4203. >> >> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. >> >>> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the >>> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you >>> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding >>> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined >>> in rfc4203). >> >> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, >> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) >> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions >> specified for IGP TE. > > See my comments above. > > With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs > to carry more information than what is currently defined in > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus > of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added, > and then we'll add it to the document. Well this is the approach of (potentially) redefining everything as opposed to carrying the IGP TE TLV in that new BGP attribute ? Cheers. JP. > > Yakov. 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= ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C81B18.F55B5E30-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 12:23:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Imtsj-0007wR-IO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:23:57 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Imtsj-0000Yd-8W for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:23:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ImtfQ-000Fjv-6w for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:10:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.142] (helo=rutherford.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ImtfN-000Fja-UE for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:10:11 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.142] (helo=aria-networks.com) by rutherford.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ImtfM-0006l7-NO; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:10:08 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([64.47.169.90]) by aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:06:17 +0000 Message-ID: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Vancouver agenda Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:09:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2007 16:06:18.0533 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE568D50:01C81B0E] X-Originating-Rutherford-IP: [88.96.235.142] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Hi, We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). So we need to start building our agenda. We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss - The progress with GELS - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information from outside ASes See - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement in BGP What else would you like to see on the agenda? Cheers, Adrian (per pro Deborah) From Domingo788@php-links.de Tue Oct 30 12:45:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImuDY-0006g3-7H for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:45:28 -0400 Received: from 213-140-16-176.fastres.net ([213.140.16.176]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImuDS-0001A7-9I for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:45:22 -0400 Received: from studio-ab1460db by php-links.de with ASMTP id 728E79AD for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:45:45 +0100 Received: from studio-ab1460db ([172.179.99.5]) by php-links.de with ESMTP id AF13C3C5BBAD for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:45:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c81b14$4028ca10$b0108cd5@studioab1460db> From: "Domingo rhein" To: Subject: scigoloh Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:45:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81B1C.A1ED3210" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81B1C.A1ED3210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good day ccamp-archive are you up to the challenge of making your member bigger? http://bargnews.com/ Domingo rhein ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81B1C.A1ED3210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good day ccamp-archive

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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81B1C.A1ED3210-- From edr@boeckmans.com Tue Oct 30 15:00:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImwKT-0007l5-LO; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from ppp91-122-170-153.pppoe.avangard-dsl.ru ([91.122.170.153] helo=sany-5ka) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImwKM-0008JY-Hs; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:00:41 -0400 Received: from [91.122.170.153] by axsguard.tsm.be; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:23:21 +0300 From: "Elaine Funk" To: Subject: NEW: Three police officers killed as truck bomb targets station in Mosul Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:23:21 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C81B43.7A884990" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6Q83U5CLWH91NSCSHMV8AI0UJDZ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Message-ID: <01c81b43$7a884990$99aa7a5b@edr> X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: efc5d1db3729b4b7031f1bb5f5a30ae3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C81B43.7A884990 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81B43.7A884990" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81B43.7A884990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bertrand Cantat was sentenced to eight years in prison.The pop star's first album of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month. The charges resulted from an August 6 incident in which Spears allegedly hit another car in a Studio City, California, parking lot. The paparazzi captured the accident on video.Each count carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.She was there about 45 minutes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving without a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.TOULOUSE, France (AP) -- French rock star Bertrand Cantat, convicted for beating his actress girlfriend to death, left prison Tuesday after spending four years behind bars."We have drawn conclusions from what happened in previous years," Tymoshenko said in remarks confirmed by her office. "We firmly know what to do, we firmly know how, and with which team."In September, a judge ordered Spears, 25, to submit to random drug tests after finding she engaged in "habitual, frequent, and continuous use of controlled substances and alcohol."Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.After filing for divorce in November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became increasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked on, then spent a month in rehab. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81B43.7A884990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bertrand Cantat was sentenc= ed to eight years in prison.

The pop star's first album = of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month.

The charges resulted from a= n August 6 incident in which Spears allegedly hit another car in a Studio= City, California, parking lot. The paparazzi captured the accident on vi= deo.

Each count carries a maximu= m penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.

She was there about 45 minu= tes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving w= ithout a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.

TOULOUSE, France (AP) -- Fr= ench rock star Bertrand Cantat, convicted for beating his actress girlfri= end to death, left prison Tuesday after spending four years behind bars.<= /o:p>

"We have drawn conclusions = from what happened in previous years," Tymoshenko said in remarks confirm= ed by her office. "We firmly know what to do, we firmly know how, and wit= h which team."

In September, a judge order= ed Spears, 25, to submit to random drug tests after finding she engaged i= n "habitual, frequent, and continuous use of controlled substances and al= cohol."

Final official results from= September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming th= at Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko = won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.

After filing for divorce in= November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, = often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became i= ncreasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked= on, then spent a month in rehab.

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truly may handwriting may. may towards quickly captain pay page clear? q5shq304eu3t tzunft2rro3b02 ------=_NextPart_000_01EC_D68147AD.77781A12-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 18:44:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImzpR-0007Vv-Ki for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:44:57 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ImzpQ-00029h-3Z for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:44:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ImzhA-0001hs-7t for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:36:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Imzh8-0001hg-Ds for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:36:23 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9UMaBIN021295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <4727B1DB.30805@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:36:11 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: Vancouver agenda References: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Adrian, there seems to be some interest in the wavelength switched optical stuff. There should be: (a) framework discussion/draft (we've updated and would like this to be a working group draft) (b) label format (I was hoping Otani et. al. would be updating their draft) (c) signaling discussions (I've just submitted a draft and last time Xu/King had a draft) (d) information for RWA (I'll be submitting this shortly, its independent of how we distribute it, e.g., an IGP or some other method) Hence this would make a moderately "chunky" session or sub-session. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the > Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). > > So we need to start building our agenda. > > We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss > - The progress with GELS > - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information > from outside ASes > See > - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links > - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE > - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement > in BGP > > What else would you like to see on the agenda? > > Cheers, > Adrian (per pro Deborah) > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 From ScottievignetteMelendez@suburbanchicagonews.com Tue Oct 30 18:59:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In037-0007V9-Q1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:59:05 -0400 Received: from [190.57.84.245] (helo=internet5) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In035-0006Yd-Nw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:59:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host13206523.suburbanchicagonews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id VEA0ga8E37.819347.jIH.dVD.1774978337586 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:58:24 +0600 Message-ID: <3a3d01c81b48$74353b20$0500a8c0@internet5> From: "Lindsey Stout" To: Subject: Hi Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:58:24 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3A39_01C81B48.74353B20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3A39_01C81B48.74353B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_3A39_01C81B48.74353B20-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 22:59:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In3nX-0002Dn-0Y for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:59:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In3nS-0004Rm-PQ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:59:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1In3Wd-0005cE-Vh for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:41:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [202.112.26.52] (helo=mx.sjtu.edu.cn) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1In3Wa-0005bn-Kh for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:41:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx.sjtu.edu.cn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7AC33FC8B; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from mx.sjtu.edu.cn ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20598-09; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from msc07ad750c26b (unknown [202.120.39.240]) by mx.sjtu.edu.cn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B2F33FCB8; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:14 +0800 (CST) Reply-To: From: "Weiqiang Sun" To: "'Adrian Farrel'" , Cc: "'Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS'" References: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> Subject: RE: Vancouver agenda Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:11 +0800 Organization: Shanghai Jiao Tong University Message-ID: <000601c81b67$7faee950$7f0cbbf0$@edu.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcgbEnI8+TomimydQ2WK88UBEmp2QQAU9/qg Content-Language: zh-cn X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at sjtu.edu.cn Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Hi Adrian and Deborah, We are coming up with a newer version of LSP dynamical provisioning performance metrics draft (previously draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-01.txt). It received quite a few discussion in the off list discussion group. The authors hope that a slot being allocated so that we can hear more comments from the WG folks. We would also like to hear the WG's interest in progressing this toward a WG document. Thanks, Weiqiang Sun -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:10 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS Subject: Vancouver agenda Hi, We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). So we need to start building our agenda. We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss - The progress with GELS - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information from outside ASes See - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement in BGP What else would you like to see on the agenda? Cheers, Adrian (per pro Deborah) From ArlinefumRubin@5thirtyone.com Wed Oct 31 03:48:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In8J3-0006Te-Nc for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:48:05 -0400 Received: from ip-216-115-158-237.static.eatel.net ([216.115.158.237] helo=your55e5f9e3d2) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1In8J2-0006g2-RT for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:48:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host06792540.5thirtyone.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id FnWejQsW49.603670.acI.TMZ.2447703506056 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:47:47 +0600 Message-ID: <407d001c81b92$5f29a8c0$6500a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> From: "Janna Hare" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price
Learn
More
Now

10 tabs 20 doses ~~$95.95~~ $34.19

30 tabs 60 doses ~~$349.95~~ $104.66

60 tabs 120 doses ~~$549.95~~ $180.15

90 tabs 180 doses ~~$789.95~~ $242.06

180 tabs 360 doses ~~$1325.95~~ $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81C41.8CF38280-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:17:50 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Networks Author(s) : T. Nadeau, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-10-31 This document describes requirements for operations and management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-31143523.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-31143523.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:44:02 +0000 Reply-To: From: "Weiqiang Sun" To: "'Adrian Farrel'" , Cc: "'Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS'" Subject: RE: Vancouver agenda Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:11 +0800 Organization: Shanghai Jiao Tong University Message-ID: <000601c81b67$7faee950$7f0cbbf0$@edu.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thread-Index: AcgbEnI8+TomimydQ2WK88UBEmp2QQAU9/qg Content-Language: zh-cn Hi Adrian and Deborah, We are coming up with a newer version of LSP dynamical provisioning performance metrics draft (previously draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-01.txt). It received quite a few discussion in the off list discussion group. The authors hope that a slot being allocated so that we can hear more comments from the WG folks. We would also like to hear the WG's interest in progressing this toward a WG document. Thanks, Weiqiang Sun -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:10 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS Subject: Vancouver agenda Hi, We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). So we need to start building our agenda. We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss - The progress with GELS - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information from outside ASes See - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement in BGP What else would you like to see on the agenda? Cheers, Adrian (per pro Deborah) Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4727B1DB.30805@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:36:11 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: Vancouver agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adrian, there seems to be some interest in the wavelength switched optical stuff. There should be: (a) framework discussion/draft (we've updated and would like this to be a working group draft) (b) label format (I was hoping Otani et. al. would be updating their draft) (c) signaling discussions (I've just submitted a draft and last time Xu/King had a draft) (d) information for RWA (I'll be submitting this shortly, its independent of how we distribute it, e.g., an IGP or some other method) Hence this would make a moderately "chunky" session or sub-session. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the > Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). > > So we need to start building our agenda. > > We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss > - The progress with GELS > - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information > from outside ASes > See > - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links > - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE > - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement > in BGP > > What else would you like to see on the agenda? > > Cheers, > Adrian (per pro Deborah) > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:10:51 +0000 Message-ID: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Vancouver agenda Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:09:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat appears to have allocated three!). So we need to start building our agenda. We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss - The progress with GELS - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information from outside ASes See - Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement in BGP What else would you like to see on the agenda? Cheers, Adrian (per pro Deborah) Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:51:29 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:25:07 -0400 To: Yakov Rekhter DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7093; t=1193759376; x=1194623376; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20; bh=p76zDeXkXd7cxNuvfvL8dgxbZ6WvLgqWR/cBYFjIPHw=; b=G2yXGuwhFiG8YC7Y8S9E8CNb4M/zRkBZ/+ESD0ID2ENDkPZjRzBTzRSWgJ5+TYHIc3N8KFSW IonOYTx+0PANCshgWKUYfeb8eiuPxDlUAhzeFnwvQAAq0hEvPlwrvI8GBE3tBEttTz4f94Zu+T 2fliIHhFZL9wZIg5XMnZ9x2Vs=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Hi Yakov, Sorry for the delay, I had missed that one - in line. On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the >>>>>>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a >>>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or >>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to >>>>>>>>> convey >>>>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider >>>>>>>>> Edge) - CE >>>>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility >>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then >>>>>>>>> be used >>>>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering >>>>>>>>> Label >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>>>>>> application ... sounds >>>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE >>>>>>>> to CE >>>>>>>> TE LSP >>>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much >>>>>>>> similar to >>>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE >>>>>>> attribute, as >>>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the >>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute >>>>>> for >>>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link >>>>>> attributes >>>>>> already defined for the IGPs ? >>>>> >>>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to >>>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of >>>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this >>>>> info >>>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. >>>>> >>>> >>>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP >>>> consensus >>>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to >>>> simply reuse >>>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are >>>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since >>>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future >>>> ones. Makes sense ? >>> >>> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a >>> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there >>> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that >>> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the >>> first draft. >> >> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other >> applications. > > As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10): > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. Sure my concern is basically to see an ID redefining all TE related attributes rather than carrying in a new BGP attributes all TLVs that have been defined already for IGPs ? > >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the >>> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - >>> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. >> >> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE >> TLVs. >> >> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such >> "external" >> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a >> new BGP >> attribute > > In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can > not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update > message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP > *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we > defined a new BGP TE attribute). > > Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE > TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute". > >> that will not have the ability to support other >> applications. >> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link >> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. > > See my first comment above. > >> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and >> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different >> approach for that generic draft. > > So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11 > to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft. No no ... I'm proposing to define a BGP attribute carrying the IGP TE TLV. > >>> That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two >>> IDs. >>> >>> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is >>> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- >>> attribute, >>> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose >>> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting >>> from your draft: >>> >>> This document also defines a new attribute called the >>> TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in >>> [RFC3784]. >>> The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further >>> revision of this document. >>> >>> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions >>> are defined in rfc4203. >> >> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. >> >>> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the >>> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you >>> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding >>> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined >>> in rfc4203). >> >> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, >> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) >> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions >> specified for IGP TE. > > See my comments above. > > With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs > to carry more information than what is currently defined in > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus > of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added, > and then we'll add it to the document. Well this is the approach of (potentially) redefining everything as opposed to carrying the IGP TE TLV in that new BGP attribute ? Cheers. JP. > > Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:17:40 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:15:01 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) Author(s) : K. Shiomoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2007-10-29 Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi- layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-29140148.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-29140148.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:19:32 +0000 Message-ID: <048e01c817e3$7b902b40$37013b0a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , , "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:18:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yakov, Currently the level of discussion on the list does not warrant this being polled for adoption. Further, I am concerned that the failure to limit the applicability of the draft is a direct proposal to support flooding of TE information from one AS to another. Whether this would result in stressing BGP or attempting TE aggregation, I don't know, but it is my understanding that such an application would be contrary to decisions already taken by the CCAMP working group about how to perform inter-domain TE, and would be a severe risk to the stability of the Internet. I propose that we put this topic on the CCAMP agenda for Vancouver to see whether we can scope the problem: - Are we limiting ourselves to the distribution of CE-PE TE information? - What about PE-PE TE information? - Do we need to distribute the information outside the AS? You said in an earlier email that you do not want to constrain the future. That is a noble statement, but you probably also want to protect the Internet against abuse of protocol extensions that you design. So we just need to get the scoping right. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" ; Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" ; Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document > Deborah and Adrian, > > Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below). > Please let us know the status of our request. > > Yakov. > ------- Forwarded Message > > Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700 > From: Yakov Rekhter > To: "Adrian Farrel" , > "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org > cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" > com>, > yakov@juniper.net > Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG > document > > Deborah and Adrian, > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > in the latest version. > > Yakov. > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:28:11 +0000 Message-Id: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , yakov@juniper.net Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <65646.1193408711.1@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:11 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Deborah and Adrian, Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below). Please let us know the status of our request. Yakov. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , yakov@juniper.net Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Deborah and Adrian, On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments in the latest version. Yakov. ------- End of Forwarded Message Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:38:32 +0000 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:35:45 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: About extensions to OSPF in support of inter-AS TE To: CCAMP List Message-id: <200710251035449069557@huawei.com> Organization: Huawei MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi CCAMPers, After discussion on the OSPF list and considering how we include inter-AS TE function in OSPFv3, we propose to change the mechanism for OSPFv2 to use a new and separate opaque LSA for inter-AS TE links(Main purpose is to make sure that the OSPFv2 and v3 implementations are samilar). Before we change the draft, we want to give you an opportunity to discuss this if you disagree. You can find the draft by:http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt Best regards, Mach Chen Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:47:03 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c814e4$23b01360$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Working Group Last Call - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:45:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, This email begins a two week last call on http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt Please send your comments to the list by 20.00 GMT on Monday 5th November. As I am a co-author, Deborah will arbitrate in all disputes. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:16:33 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Cc: Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: IESG Secretary Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:15:02 -0400 A modified charter has been submitted for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The modified charter is provided below for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 29. +++ Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) ============================================ Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): * Adrian Farrel * Deborah Brungard Routing Area Director(s): * Ross Callon * David Ward Routing Area Advisor: * Ross Callon Technical Advisor(s): * Alex Zinin Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org In Body: subscribe ccamp Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp Description of Working Group: Organizational Overview The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. CCAMP WG work scope includes: - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. - Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP) is included here. - Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols. - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). - Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG. - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in the ISIS WG. - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the PCE and MPLS WGs. - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection, diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in combination. - Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for ASON are not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. - Document issues and strategies for the migration of MPLS-based deployments to GMPLS. Based on the outcome, identify protocol machinery that implementations may have to change to ease the migration from MPLS to GMPLS. In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. Goals and Milestones: Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Done Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review Oct 2007 Sep 2008 Dec 2008 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Recharter or close Working Group Internet-Drafts: Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions (55171 bytes) Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE) (47682 bytes) A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) (48843 bytes) IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities (26263 bytes) Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) (61451 bytes) Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi Region Networks (MLN/MRN) (36366 bytes) Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration (44736 bytes) Procedures for Dynamically Signaled Hierarchical Label Switched Paths (49105 bytes) MEF Ethernet Traffic Parameters (23256 bytes) Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic Engineering Networks (26060 bytes) Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (35730 bytes) Traffic Engineering Database Management Information Base in support of GMPLS (49569 bytes) Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Network (25420 bytes) Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks (29760 bytes) Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery (57455 bytes) OSPF Traffic Engineering (OSPF-TE) Extensions in Support of Inter-AS Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering (28776 bytes) Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures (33723 bytes) Request For Comments: Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional Description (RFC 3471) (72105 bytes) updated by RFC 4201,RFC 4328,RFC 4872 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Constraint-based Routed Label Distribution Protocol (CR-LDP) Extensions (RFC 3472) (49006 bytes) updated by RFC 3468,RFC 4201 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions (RFC 3473) (91808 bytes) updated by RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063 Tracing Requirements for Generic Tunnels (RFC 3609) (17859 bytes) Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Extensions for SONET and SDH Control (RFC 3946) (52205 bytes) obsoleted by RFC 4606 Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching Architecture (RFC 3945) (166700 bytes) GMPLS Signaling Procedure For Egress Control (RFC 4003) (10306 bytes) updates RFC 3473 Requirements for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Signaling Usage and Extensions for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4139) (36660 bytes) Generalize Multiprotocol Label Switching(GMPLS) User-Network Interface (UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Support for the Overlay Model (RFC 4208) (28693 bytes) Synchronous Optical Network (SONET)/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH) Encoding for Link Management Protocol (LMP) Test Messages (RFC 4207) (29390 bytes) Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4204) (186515 bytes) OSPF Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (RFC 4203) (23130 bytes) updates RFC 3630 Routing Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4202) (57333 bytes) Link Management Protocol (LMP) for Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) Optical Line Systems (RFC 4209) (33906 bytes) Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4258) (48558 bytes) Framework for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based Control of Synchronous Digital Hierarchy/Synchronous Optical Networking (SDH/SONET) Networks (RFC 4257) (86974 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Extensions for G.709 Optical Transport Networks Control (RFC 4328) (52145 bytes) updates RFC 3471 Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC 4327) (150509 bytes) obsoleted by RFC 4631 A Transport Network View of the Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4394) (40811 bytes) A Lexicography for the Interpretation of Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Terminology within The Context of the ITU-T's Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) Architecture (RFC 4397) (40331 bytes) Analysis of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based Recovery Mechanisms (including Protection and Restoration) (RFC 4428) (118749 bytes) Recovery (Protection and Restoration) Terminology for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4427) (43842 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Functional Specification (RFC 4426) (55820 bytes) Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Hello: A Clarification Statement (RFC 4558) (14185 bytes) Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Extensions for Synchronous Optical Network (SONET) and Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH) Control (RFC 4606) (53492 bytes) obsoletes RFC 3946 Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC 4631) (152560 bytes) obsoletes RFC 4327 Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements (RFC 4652) (47179 bytes) Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switch Path (LSP) (RFC 4736) (28850 bytes) A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (RFC 4726) (53076 bytes) GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information (RFC 4783) (42068 bytes) updates RFC 3473 Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Label Switching Router (LSR) Management Information Base (RFC 4803) (79925 bytes) Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering Management Information Base (RFC 4802) (118164 bytes) Definitions of Textual Conventions for Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Management (RFC 4801) (16347 bytes) Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) (RFC 4874) (59569 bytes) updates RFC 3473,RFC 3209 RSVP-TE Extensions in support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery (RFC 4872) (111882 bytes) updates RFC 3471/ updated by RFC 4873 GMPLS Segment Recovery (RFC 4873) (56859 bytes) updates RFC 4872,RFC 3473 Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE (RFC 4920) (88679 bytes) Routing extensions for discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) mesh membership (RFC 4972) (32044 bytes) Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in support of Calls (RFC 4974) (72000 bytes) updates RFC 3473 Use of Addresses in Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Networks (RFC 4990) (50908 bytes) Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart (RFC 5063) (58542 bytes) updates RFC 2961,RFC 3473 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:26:03 +0000 Message-ID: <01b201c81495$bdeda590$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Fw: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Note well Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:00 AM Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada > There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 70th > IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada: > > November 12th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00) > Internet-Draft Submissions > > All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday, > November 12th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). As always, all initial > submissions with a > filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the > appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced. The > Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday, > November 5th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). > > November (14:00 UTC/GMT): Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and > higher) > Internet-Draft Submissions > > All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted > by Monday, November 19th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). > > Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective > cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts > directory or announced until on or after Monday, December 3rd at 9:00 > AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT), when Internet-Draft posting resumes. Please do not > wait until > the last minute to submit. > > The Secretariat encourages you to submit your Internet-Drafts via the > Internet-Draft > Submission Tool (IDST) https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi. If > you are unable to do > so, then you may still submit your Internet-Drafts manually by sending > them to internet- > drafts@ietf.org. If you are submitting a version -00 WG draft that > replaces non-WG draft, > then you must submit it manually as the current IDST cannot handle > replacements. Please be > sure to state that one draft replaces another in the cover note that > accompanies your > submission. Also, please note that the IDST will not accept drafts > submitted after their > respective cutoff dates. > > Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any > questions or concerns, then please send a message to > internet-drafts@ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates > for the 70th IETF Meeting can be found at > http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_70.html. > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:00:40 +0000 Message-ID: <011001c81489$b76788f0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like a good positive response with no dissention. We will adopt. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on > the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, > and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:59:51 +0000 Message-ID: <47191A4C.6070605@isocore.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:57:48 -0400 From: Matt Tylenda User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Call for Participation: MPLS2007 International Conference, October 28-31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MPLS2007 International conference starting on October 28-31 in Washington, D.C. is only a few days away! Conference Program is available at: http://www.mpls2007.com/program/technical_sessions.htm Conference registration details are available at: http://www.mpls2007.com/registration/attendees.htm A public interop demo is also scheduled with the conference - http://www.mpls2007.com/program/inter_op.htm We look forward to seeing you at the conference! Regards, Matt -- Matt Tylenda mtylenda@isocore.com ISOCORE Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:42:52 +0000 Message-ID: <47172A0B.4030806@pi.se> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:40:27 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Iesg (E-mail)" CC: mpls@ietf.org, pwe3 , ccamp , George Swallow , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Stewart Bryant , IAB Subject: IAB decision on how to prepare for a potential cooperation between IETF and ITU-T on t-mpls Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the IESG cc mpls, pwe3 and ccamp working groups The ownership of what needs to be done to prepare for a situation where an agreement on cooperation between ITU-T and the IETF on T-MPLS would be reached does not currently have a clear home in the IETF, neither are concrete objectives or explicit requirements well-defined. The liaison activities that surround this agreement and proper focus on this work within the IETF are critical, and as such, the IAB needs to heavily support these activities. At the IAB meeting October 3 the IAB agreed that the IETF need a dedicated team that could evaluate "what would need to be done if the agreement that might come out of the Q12/15 meeting in Stuttgart is progressed". As a result the IAB decided on a design team approach, the design team charter will be to come up with a list of tasks need to be done as a result of the potential agreement and come up with a proposal on how it should be managed. We believe that some degree of education of people from the ITU-T side in the Tao of IETF should be planned. And a reciprocal function would likely be worthwhile as well. We see this tasked team as a forerunner to the joint team we are about to set up together with the ITU-T. Things I see that need to be clarified are: - which decisions taken by IETF working groups needs to be revisited; e.g., only LDP v. RSVP-TE for PWE3? - where are the incompatibilities between IETF specifications and the ITU-T documents - what type of requirement organization do we need, should we try to channel it through existing working groups or start a new - in what format could we accept requirements from ITU-T - etc (please add to the list) It is our take that this design team should include people that have been actively involved in sorting out the T-MPLS issues up to now, e.g.: - someone from the Internet Area - someone from the Routing Area - someone from the pwe3 wg - someone from the mpls wg - our mpls liaison to the ITU-T - someone from the IAB - someone from the IESG This does not automatically add up to 7 or more people, since we have certain possible overlap; we should also take care in not having a to strong representation from one single company. We want to appoint the design team as soon as possible, and we will approach people that matches the list above, and of course we like the recipients of this mail to suggest names. On behalf of the Internet Architecture Board (IAB) Loa Andersson -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:44:53 +0000 Message-ID: <006501c810bb$36747630$1e08a8c0@c9c8b44f6e334f0> From: "blithe" To: Subject: any suggestion or commets for this I-D? Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:42:43 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01C810FE.44871460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C810FE.44871460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aGVsbG8sIGV2ZXJ5b25lLA0KDQpUaGUgSS1EICJMYWJlbCBTd2l0Y2hlZCBQYXRoIChMU1ApIER5 bmFtaWNhbCBQcm92aXNpb25pbmcgUGVyZm9ybWFuY2UgTWV0cmljcyBpbiBHZW5lcmFsaXplZCBN UExTIE5ldHdvcmtzIiB3aWxsIGJlIHVwZGF0ZWQgbmVhcmx5LiAgIFRoZSBhY2Nlc3MgbGluayBp cyBodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2ktZC1hbm5vdW5jZS9jdXJy ZW50L21zZzE1MzU1Lmh0bWwgLiAgIEFueSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIGFuZCBjb21tZW50cyBhYm91dCBp dCBhcmUgc29saWNpdGVkLg0KDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KDQpHdW93dSBYaWUNClN0YXRlIEtleSBM YWIgb2YgYWR2YW5jZWQgb3B0aWNhbCBjb21tdW5pY2F0aW9ucyBzeXN0ZW0gYW5kIG5ldHdvcmtz DQpTaGFuZ2hhaSBKaWFvIFRvbmcgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSANCg== ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C810FE.44871460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGUgY29udGVu dD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdiMjMxMiI+DQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgNi4w MC4yOTAwLjMxMzIiIG5hbWU9R0VORVJBVE9SPg0KPFNUWUxFPjwvU1RZTEU+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8 Qk9EWSBiZ0NvbG9yPSNmZmZmZmY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5oZWxsbywgZXZlcnlvbmUs PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTI+PC9GT05UPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0KPERJ Vj48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTI+VGhlJm5ic3A7SS1EICJMYWJlbCBTd2l0Y2hlZCBQYXRoIChMU1ApIER5 bmFtaWNhbCBQcm92aXNpb25pbmcgDQpQZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBNZXRyaWNzIGluIEdlbmVyYWxpemVk IE1QTFMgTmV0d29ya3MiIHdpbGwgYmUgDQp1cGRhdGVkJm5ic3A7bmVhcmx5LiZuYnNwOyZuYnNw OyBUaGUgYWNjZXNzIGxpbmsgaXMgPC9GT05UPjxBIA0KaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9pLWQtYW5ub3VuY2UvY3VycmVudC9tc2cxNTM1NS5odG1sIj48 Rk9OVCANCnNpemU9Mj5odHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2ktZC1h bm5vdW5jZS9jdXJyZW50L21zZzE1MzU1Lmh0bWw8L0ZPTlQ+PC9BPjxGT05UIA0Kc2l6ZT0yPiZu YnNwOy4mbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgQW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gYW5kJm5ic3A7Y29tbWVudHMgYWJvdXQg aXQgYXJlIA0Kc29saWNpdGVkLjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9O VD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxE SVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPlRo YW5rcyw8L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj48L0ZPTlQ+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+ DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5HdW93dSBYaWU8L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNp emU9Mj5TdGF0ZSBLZXkgTGFiIG9mIGFkdmFuY2VkIG9wdGljYWwgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMgc3lz dGVtIGFuZCANCm5ldHdvcmtzPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTI+U2hhbmdo YWkgSmlhbyBUb25nIA0KVW5pdmVyc2l0eSZuYnNwOzxCUj48L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZPjwv SFRNTD4NCg== ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C810FE.44871460-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:14:09 +0000 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 5063 on Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20071017010653.8ECAAE7CF5@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5063 Title: Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart Author: A. Satyanarayana, Ed., R. Rahman, Ed. Status: Standards Track Date: October 2007 Mailbox: asatyana@cisco.com, rrahman@cisco.com Pages: 24 Characters: 58542 Updates: RFC2961, RFC3473 See-Also: I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt This document describes extensions to the Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473. The extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the Path message last sent by the node being restarted. Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding state across a restart. Those mechanisms do not fully support signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP objects. The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on nodal faults defined in RFC 3473. Using these extensions, the restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state, including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing) interface identifiers. The extensions can also be used to recover signaling state after the restart of an ingress node. These extensions are not used to create or restore data plane state. The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state locally for one or more Label Switched Paths (LSPs). [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:58 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:52:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements From: Monique Morrow To: JP Vasseur , Adrian Farrel CC: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgQHUgchtxN0HwQEdy3mgAX8tV3kA== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=828; t=1192557799; x=1193421799; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=mmorrow@cisco.com; z=From:=20Monique=20Morrow=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=eVYpUHwVcPw9h3l8vPmRn9DGZoJCByeveMte+djBMbI=; b=KkWcSaMy/2pUvqIyfWIecNh2OpJ93LgNGjW0pT/j3tHRP5a6W0qrqQ0lcTjefjcDwLi7Z2mQ rfWipfFbknvg95brkuRNC5BC1rxL1m3nz4alL26m4SJraMbYTqkz5awj; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=mmorrow@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Also in favor /monique On 10/16/07 4:52 AM, "JP Vasseur" wrote: > in favor. > > JP. > > On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- >> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough >> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, >> we decided we should play it very safe. >> >> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, >> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the >> list, and some of our own concerns. >> >> So, second time of asking... >> >> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt >> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> >> Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:48:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5F882DB6-F95F-4966-BBEF-E4F159CFFE86@ece.drexel.edu> Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:46:15 -0400 To: Adrian Farrel On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? Yes! Jau. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:59:24 +0000 Message-Id: <200710161355.l9GDttn65904@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <81945.1192542955.1@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:55:55 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter JP, > >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the > >>>>>>>>> requirements > >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or > >>>>>>> one. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to > >>>>>>> convey > >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider > >>>>>>> Edge) - CE > >>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then > >>>>>>> be used > >>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >>>>>> application ... sounds > >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE > >>>>>> to CE > >>>>>> TE LSP > >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much > >>>>>> similar to > >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > >>>>> > >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > >>>> > >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute > >>>> for > >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > >>>> already defined for the IGPs ? > >>> > >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > >>> > >> > >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP > >> consensus > >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to > >> simply reuse > >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are > >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since > >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future > >> ones. Makes sense ? > > > > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a > > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there > > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that > > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the > > first draft. > > Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other > applications. As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10): If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the > > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - > > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. > > With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE > TLVs. > > We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external" > links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP > attribute In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we defined a new BGP TE attribute). Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute". > that will not have the ability to support other > applications. > In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link > characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. See my first comment above. > The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and > other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different > approach for that generic draft. So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11 to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft. > > That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. > > > > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is > > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- > > attribute, > > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose > > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting > > from your draft: > > > > This document also defines a new attribute called the > > TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784]. > > The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further > > revision of this document. > > > > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions > > are defined in rfc4203. > > Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. > > > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the > > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you > > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding > > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined > > in rfc4203). > > Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, > (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) > hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions > specified for IGP TE. See my comments above. With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs to carry more information than what is currently defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added, and then we'll add it to the document. Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:04:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <176CB196-0DEF-4532-9F54-AEC46F32EBB1@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200 To: Yakov Rekhter DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4972; t=1192536239; x=1193400239; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=k1ba1voP8QhtigattZi7ctyHRA14DgIkDj6w/m/lCFU=; b=J3l7Vd5T1WqD6gkUQnZfylUqbbsTC2fGH0W+bUyywYtWtblnYZ6eeT2CIMNzKIddq3c7nD9t KYXua4hMPdOYSIhOFAIeXuMtlE4IYcTaICTcXBH7p8o6CdqXJksu1HO9; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Hi Yakov, On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the >>>>>>>>> requirements >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or >>>>>>> one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to >>>>>>> convey >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider >>>>>>> Edge) - CE >>>>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>>>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then >>>>>>> be used >>>>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>>>> application ... sounds >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE >>>>>> to CE >>>>>> TE LSP >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much >>>>>> similar to >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>>>> >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >>>> >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute >>>> for >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes >>>> already defined for the IGPs ? >>> >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. >>> >> >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP >> consensus >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to >> simply reuse >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future >> ones. Makes sense ? > > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the > first draft. Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other applications. > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE TLVs. We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external" links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute that will not have the ability to support other applications. In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link characteristics, as defined in IGP TE. The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different approach for that generic draft. > That is > precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. > > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- > attribute, > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting > from your draft: > > This document also defines a new attribute called the > TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in > [RFC3784]. > The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further > revision of this document. > > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions > are defined in rfc4203. > Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS. > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined > in rfc4203). > Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes, (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs) hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions specified for IGP TE. Thanks. JP. > Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:44 +0000 Message-ID: <4714A782.3000107@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:58:58 -0400 From: Reshad Rahman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=680; t=1192535972; x=1193399972; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrahman@cisco.com; z=From:=20Reshad=20Rahman=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=HmWMNmeC1vHDPh3qp8IFpTuR1x9oce8qIy/h5mgL514=; b=Uzve3I+9K7lJvj7oPDxrTmS34ynjhW2FKSGIgxIV+Us6QSyU1uASph/tRqVCqO+yQkeEFVwH CumFsbfgBGR5IvcBYbRX58WLOV8ypAk1gANVNRaetIdbXgycf3vWLL0o; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=rrahman@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); In favour. Regards, Reshad. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are > authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should > be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:56:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9ABD5834-45E9-455C-8535-D11129AEDDA8@cisco.com> Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:52:36 +0200 To: "Adrian Farrel" DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=702; t=1192535626; x=1193399626; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20; bh=FqzeKua45nu3G358CcA4bNi/jpD2/WrYkl4I5NZ7C0I=; b=QNqUNCh4h5MCGAZa1JHDbVOUj50e/VlQLgQhqnIi0VAZwOc4A/Guorf4k6u2ReYZXU9R1icO 5FSZKlNJSIO/BKO2dokYpR9mbNdCjp4o1QA3Jr7Ln3J1q5lLlRtPdgbn; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); in favor. JP. On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- > requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough > consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, > we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:46:20 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:43:27 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604F0EB49@ftrdmel2> Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgNnJ7CZsT+n0Q2RL2AslLIifS4cwCK0bkA From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: , Hi Adrian. Yes, I do think it should be adopted. Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi, When we asked about adopting=20 draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we = didn't=20 get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the=20 draft, we decided we should play it very safe. The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, = attempts=20 to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some = of=20 our own concerns. So, second time of asking... Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20 adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:07:11 +0000 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:12 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements To: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <011901c80f90$9a9eba20$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes, it should be adopted as a CCAMP WG draft. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of > our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: <4713F6C7.2050007@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:24:55 -0400 From: Danny Prairie Reply-To: dprairie@cisco.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=682; t=1192490708; x=1193354708; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=dprairie@cisco.com; z=From:=20Danny=20Prairie=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20 |To:=20Adrian=20Farrel=20; bh=9phZIkByVy6kvdihXfQ4Fap3NFBPT0p6jg49c+FY+ps=; b=mmFNS6NhE//0NI/wj4bYm8GtbEVlF0brBm7Bp3JBzBJ8sFdRGkwFAY8x0PnpVrVKu/cq/kxA ROqi6eGw+Yo9+Y3O216lh2nOReOjB8lGsgOEeYto7nDGa7SO3QzJRfJd; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=dprairie@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); In favor. Regards, Danny Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we > didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are > authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, > attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the > list, and some of our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should > be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:47:32 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:34 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Thread-Index: AcgPT4OaGR6s+yYSTQ6JWYBHyyU9IQAA6Q0w From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "tom.petch" , "Adrian Farrel" , DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1040; t=1192470401; x=1193334401; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Asking=20again=20about=20draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam -requirements |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22tom.petch=22=20,=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22 =20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20; bh=mH6TyCxysoD60aCPiSlY2wF7HzKLxGErqNa0tJ5xtDs=; b=0AhIaPE+33DQY5fNQsseWHZ9sF5q3eg9NJZEC60/Ks159rsSCLcZf7PD0AozUIkLKIL+af4d dmFVZ1im7zrDlZ8aT0J4BBzkPtC0asdvA209cqjoUn7I8Xc36+nyGm6k; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Farrel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements >=20 >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > When we asked about adopting=20 > > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG=20 > document we didn't=20 > > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are=20 > authors on the=20 > > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > >=20 > > The new revision,=20 > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts=20 > > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the=20 > list, and some of=20 > > our own concerns. > >=20 > > So, second time of asking... > >=20 > > Do you think=20 > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20 > > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > >=20 In Favor,=20 Thanks Regards... Zafar=20 > > Thanks, > > Adrian > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:19:02 +0000 Message-ID: <04e201c80f45$d1eba2e0$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, adopt. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements > Hi, > > When we asked about adopting > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the > draft, we decided we should play it very safe. > > The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of > our own concerns. > > So, second time of asking... > > Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:02:19 +0000 From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:00:45 -0400 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt Technical Summary This document describes procedures and protocol extensions for the use of Resource ReserVation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling in Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (MPLS-TE) packet networks and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) packet and non-packet networks to support the establishment and maintenance of Label Switched Paths that cross domain boundaries. Working Group Summary no dissent reported. Protocol Quality Ross Callon has reviewed the spec for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor This document contains a normative reference to draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching, which should be progressed with this one. (they were both put on the IESG agenda at the same time). Arthi Ayyangar's affiliation should be updated to be: Arthi Ayyangar Juniper Networks 1194 N Mathilda Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94089 email: arthi@juniper.net Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:24:54 +0000 Message-Id: <200710151422.l9FEM3n42188@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <75604.1192458123.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:22:03 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter JP, > >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>>>> > >>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > >>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > >>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > >>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >>>> application ... sounds > >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > >>>> TE LSP > >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > >>> > >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > >> > >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for > >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > >> already defined for the IGPs ? > > > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > > > > On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus > (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse > the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are > effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since > a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future > ones. Makes sense ? No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the first draft. draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter - it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs. Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting from your draft: This document also defines a new attribute called the TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784]. The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further revision of this document. Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions are defined in rfc4203. Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined in rfc4203). Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:48:28 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c80f31$9f1cd460$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:34:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Andy, I'll modify the wording of the liaison accordingly. Wrt all the I-Ds, but especially the BFD work, I know you know that the IETF is contribution driven. If we all sit back and wait for the I-Ds to become RFCs, nothing will happen. So hopefully anyone waiting for something to complete will pitch in and help resolve any open issues. But also, if the MFA is waiting for some specific work and is unsure of the status, a liaison will surely clarify the situation. And a liaison that makes a specific request for speed in a particular area may also get some attention. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew G. Malis" To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison > Adrian, > > Thanks for your comments so far. Regarding the references to drafts, > those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be > reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon. If they get held up, > we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft > (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and > whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the > work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later > revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting. > > This issue is a particular sore spot. I'm very mystified in > particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs. Everyone is > implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in > is affecting work both in the IETF and outside. > > Cheers, > Andy > > On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The MFA sent us >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt >> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS >> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. >> >> We were requested to respond by 18th October. >> >> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, >> so >> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. >> >> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the >> following >> as a starting-point for a response liaison. >> >> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in >> time >> for me to send the liaison on October 15th. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> === >> Dear David and Rao, >> >> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As >> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also >> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is >> understandably low. >> >> We do have the following observations for your consideration. >> >> 1. References. >> >> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our >> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents >> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in >> this >> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this >> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final >> ballot. >> The following list of references falls into this category: >> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te >> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp >> - draft-ietf-bfd-base >> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop >> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) >> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib >> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib >> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib >> >> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI >> >> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in >> particular >> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI >> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of >> support. >> >> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, >> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in >> section 5 does not reference RFC3473. >> >> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also >> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. >> >> 3. Broken Reference >> >> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not >> the >> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or >> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. >> >> Best regards, >> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard >> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs >> >> >> >> > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:29:03 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071014055302.070531c0@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:30:14 +0900 To: "'Adrian Farrel'" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Wataru Imajuku Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Cc: "'Tomohiro Otani'" , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "'K. Miyazaki'" , "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tomo and Adrian As I commented before in this mailing list, this draft is useful. In my understanding, one of merit of Lambda label other than that Young pointed out is the elimination of some manual configuration of TE-Link attributes which were required in current specification for WDM links, specifically when handling "colorless" fibers between the add/drop port of ROADM/OXCs and single tunable laser in its client node. In this case, Lambda label well simplifies TE-Link configuration for the fibers which can possibly transmit optical signal in many wavelengths while only one signal channel is actually transmitted. Regarding to the question "a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object?" which Adrian pointed out, current my understanding is as follows, A) If we do not enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, and 1) If we employ current C-type, nodes at termination of the TE-links should pre-negotiate each other whether the TE-Link is "Lambda" Label or not. 2) If we define new C-type, nodes can understand whether remote node identify the TE-link as is "Lambda Label" link without pre-negotiation. We can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above. But, requires new C-types (i.e. new extension) B) If we do enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, we can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above without new C-type. Also, this helps to eliminate new burden for service providers taking care whether "Lambda Label" link or not for each TE-link. But, this choice brings large impact on NEs which already developed. I can not speak which one is better selection at this moment, but how far pursuit the merit of "Lambda Label" to simplify the configuration seem one of important view point to determine solution. Best Regards Wataru At 06:58 07/10/09, Young Lee wrote: >Hi, > >I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting >an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength >switched optical network (WSON). > >A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid >(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals >with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as >a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be >agreed upon across the network entities. > >The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It >should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. > >Regards, > >Young >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf >Of Adrian Farrel >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM >To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI) >Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > >Hi, > >I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > >Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always > >possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. > >Here are some nits and issues in the current draft. > >=== >Abstract >You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract >=== >Abstract >d/ and getting significant/ >=== >Abstract >"new generation" >Do you mean "next generation" or "new"? >=== >Abstract >s/proposes/defines/ >=== >Section 3 >s/vendors? network is/vendors' networks are/ >=== >Section 3 > "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned > between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering > wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be > accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints." >I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph! >=== >Figure 2 >The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is >confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown >in figure 1. >=== >Section 4 >I think you need to be careful here. >These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language. >Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is >interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in >draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable > >concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you >restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let >future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling. >=== >Section 5.2 >It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the > >CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of >decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to >the CS field. >Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems >to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so >improbable. >So, how about... > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=== >Section 5.3 >To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would >suggest the following for CWDM. > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | Reserved | Lambda | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=== >Section 6.1 >I think some of the progression here is faulty. >We have: > "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that > is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end > scope. > > The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has > significance only between two neighbors." >It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but >that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. >Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop. > >I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D, > >and could be dropped without any problem. >The two things you do need in this section are: >1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > Label can be used. >2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > Generalized Label Object? >=== >Section 6.2 >As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >availability is best removed from this I-D. >=== >Section 7 >You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and > >external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you >should mention the fact. >=== >Section 10 >I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. >=== > >Cheers, >Adrian ------------------------------------- Wataru Imajuku, Ph.D.@NTT Network Innovation Labs TEL: +81-46-859-4315 FAX: +81-46-859-5541 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:19:10 +0000 Message-ID: <0e8101c80d9a$fa2ce4f0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:14:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, > Yes, I find this version clearer. Good. Thanks. > I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any > discussion to when it is a WG I-D. One is the change of the first > sentence from > 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS' > to > 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS' > which sounds quite a change. In practice, this does not reflect a > dramatic > change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it > quite > right. This tackled a comment from Don O'Connor. I think the essence of Don's point was that the techniques being described were not data plane OAM. In fact, while we may leverage data plane OAM, for most (all?) technologies with which we are dealing, the data plane OAM is already defined (stroke being defined) by other bodies or other working groups. We'd be happy to see another formulation of this text. > Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume > it is > too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF. Ah. Hmm. As you say, NetConf is nascent. It would be a trifle premature to *require* NetConf conformance. In fact, the requirements would perhaps be a little more abstract (e.g., "standardised tools for operational management") if there wasn't also the general IETF "SHOULD" applied to the development of MIB modules for all protocols and protocol extensions. Cheers, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:19:02 +0000 Message-ID: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:16:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe. The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of our own concerns. So, second time of asking... Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft? Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:21:44 +0000 Message-ID: <0dc701c80cfc$8ba753b0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Fw: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:20:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "IESG Secretary" To: ; ; "Adrian Farrel" ; "Deborah Brungard" Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) >A new charter for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) > working group in the Routing Area of the IETF is being considered. > The draft charter is provided below for your review and comment. > > The IETF Secretariat > > +++ > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Last Modified: 2007-10-05 > > Current Status: Active Working Group > > Chair(s): > Adrian Farrel > Deborah Brungard > > > Routing Area Director(s): > Ross Callon > David Ward > > Routing Area Advisor: > Ross Callon > > Technical Advisor(s): > Alex Zinin > > Mailing Lists: > General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org > In Body: subscribe ccamp > Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp > > Description of Working Group: > > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS > WG. > > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP > encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the > MPLS WG. > > === > > New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. > Suggest to place it after: > "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the > protocols and extensions specified within the WG." > and before: > "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" > > - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol > extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed > Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already > approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data > plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the > IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data > planes is out of scope. > > > === > > Final paragraph > > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG > will also cooperate with the ITU-T. > > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The > WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. > > === > > Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) > > OLD > Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > --- > OLD > Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > --- > OLD > Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > NEW > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > --- > OLD > Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > --- > OLD > Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG > review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and > solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > --- > OLD > Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > NEW > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > --- > OLD > Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > NEW > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG > review > NEW > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG > review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > NEW > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group > NEW > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled > and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > > ==== > > Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) > > Done Post strawman WG goals and charter > Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions > for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control > solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. > Done Build appropriate design teams > Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common > control plane protocol > Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol > Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG > Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG > Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and > routing > Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG > consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination > of usefulness of continuation of WG > Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in > ISIS and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh > membership > Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review > Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in > ISIS and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies > Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi- > Region Networks > Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for > MLN/MRN > Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions > Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for > IESG review > Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG > review > Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module > Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for > IESG review > Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter- > domain issues for disjoint and protected paths > Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and > OSPF for IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review > Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and > solutions > Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review > Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership > for IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D > for IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG > review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for > IESG review > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain > issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region > Networks I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for > IESG review > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to > cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG > review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for > MIB doctor and IESG review > Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled > and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:11:07 +0000 Message-ID: <08d701c80ce8$b5869060$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:54:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I find this version clearer. I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any discussion to when it is a WG I-D. One is the change of the first sentence from 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS' to 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS' which sounds quite a change. In practice, this does not reflect a dramatic change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it quite right. Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume it is too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > Hi, > > FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on > the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to > tidy up the language a bit. > > Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns > before. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM > Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >directories. > > > > Title : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label > > Switching (GMPLS) Networks > > Author(s) : T. Otani, et al. > > Filename : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > Pages : 11 > > Date : 2007-10-08 > > > > This document describes requirements for operations and management > > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) > > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02 .txt > > > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > > the message. > > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > > to change your subscription settings. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:12:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6C17AC93-A9DE-4DDC-A869-60855D5A35D1@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200 To: Yakov Rekhter Hi Yakov, On Oct 10, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. >>>>> >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>>>> >>>>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey >>>>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) >>>>> - CE >>>>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>>>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be >>>>> used >>>>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >>>> application ... sounds >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE >>>> TE LSP >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). >>> >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. >> >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes >> already defined for the IGPs ? > > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. > On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future ones. Makes sense ? Cheers. JP. > Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:41:57 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=rT67MP8xIclO2nCrSb4ap/0zzSTp+3Lg30gpVIjb2KYAagCMXeg9oAen2GzvefbmaiME+AS84i5YJgLQP9v/j1HmB8/u+FnrYT0SaIwhDEd5ZLfuUJqAIFMurR6YQCQA+DeCEqXCGVh1B/yF9RveCGQed25LxsfFu8YBm+BIlEQ=; Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: Re: MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers? To: Greg Bernstein , Martin Vigoureux Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-896040048-1192038008=:39219" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <749541.39219.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-896040048-1192038008=:39219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between: a) server and client layers belong to different regions; b) server and client layer belong to the same region Igor Greg Bernstein wrote: Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient. Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in the data plane. Regards Greg B. Martin Vigoureux wrote: > Dear Greg, > > both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations > performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) > while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended > to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing > from a given switching capability to a different one. > "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) > capability. > > hope it clarifies. > > best regards, > > Greg Bernstein a �crit : >> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific >> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. >> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported >> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the >> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly >> pack them in. >> >> Currently the draft has: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> ---snip--- >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Adaptation Capability-specific information | >> | (variable) | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In >> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be >> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be >> SDH. >> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) >> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a >> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more >>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this >>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements >>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that >>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if >>> some elements might change. >>> >>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >>> draft. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-896040048-1192038008=:39219 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi,

I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:
a) server and client layers belong to different regions;
b) server and client layer belong to the same region

Igor

Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> wrote:
Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in
addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be
wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a �crit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>> 0 1 2 3
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> ---snip---
>>
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> | Adaptation Capability-specific information |
>> | (variable) |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever)
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

--
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-896040048-1192038008=:39219-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:24:34 +0000 Message-ID: <470CEE7E.2040208@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:23:42 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Vigoureux CC: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in addition to multi-region... Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient. Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be wrong with having adaptations within a region? Its done all the time in the data plane. Regards Greg B. Martin Vigoureux wrote: > Dear Greg, > > both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations > performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) > while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended > to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing > from a given switching capability to a different one. > "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) > capability. > > hope it clarifies. > > best regards, > > Greg Bernstein a �crit : >> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific >> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. >> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported >> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the >> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly >> pack them in. >> >> Currently the draft has: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> ---snip--- >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Adaptation Capability-specific information | >> | (variable) | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In >> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be >> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be >> SDH. >> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) >> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a >> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more >>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this >>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements >>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that >>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if >>> some elements might change. >>> >>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >>> draft. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:12:53 +0000 Message-Id: <200710101510.l9AFAnn59198@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Yakov Rekhter , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12784.1192029049.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:49 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter JP, > >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > >>> > >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > >>> > >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > >>> > >>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > >>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) > >>> - CE > >>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > >>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be > >>> used > >>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > >>> > >> > >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > >> application ... sounds > >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > >> TE LSP > >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > >> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > > > > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. > > Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for > the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes > already defined for the IGPs ? If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute. Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:16:54 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=yA59OTiT0RjbS2cP6MW/EYFdK1hzVbWBKUo5hUJj2ZE=; b=oMJpSDSeWmw52RC08gw+ed8nA6cmlfcUFzv0e+6UlHQ97l+I0Ib/vizGq37ryMQx9ncUlr3H/DePoN1zbDZ01R+Vg+8+n+AeeJe+8ThN2emnEAMzody2/7LHOaNgJQksxobLpxdeM1RHIInbYui2mxuhkU6nqvm8LNNe6pwJBDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nstj6vtyDKkKgPHecD19SYrRvLs+YgGzBCOcXGiCqw/nkvfzR6AmlhVYXLUkNSgnvDiu5IlKdL8gB2sh3gBAEtnnA0nrlyt+yneZbuB17MqBJ/2yaCmu4LPNeP1gLW8loiGXOEBZiJQi2Tj9lXLRoLvoEwQbxUiw0IWMnqx0ZwI= Message-ID: <406e32c00710100716n7cfd6d23sb47889b9081aa69d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:16:08 -0400 From: "Peng He" To: "Mach Chen" Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "Vishwas Manral" , "Alan Davey" , "CCAMP List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Mach, Thanks a lot for your reply, all clear now. Regards, Peng On 10/10/07, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi Peng, > > On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote: > > >Hello Mach, > > > >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) > >> > > > >Understood :-) > >> > >> > >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: > >> > >> >Hello Mach, > >> > > >> >Just be curious about the following: > >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a > >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > >> > > >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that > >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming > >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. > >> > >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. > > > >One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the > >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the > >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path > >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the > >link(s) is available. > > Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. > > > > >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path > >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS > >TE link(s)? > > As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. > > >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, > >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? > > > Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it. > > > > > >Regards, > >Peng > > > Best regards, > Mach Chen > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: <09c701c80b45$aaccb310$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: New working group draft - MLN Solutions Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:58:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Definitely good support for this. Thanks. Authors, please submit as draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-00.txt Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Proposed new working group draft > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need > to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might > change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG > draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:09:05 +0000 Message-ID: <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:07:42 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Bernstein CC: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Greg, both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC) while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing from a given switching capability to a different one. "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y) capability. hope it clarifies. best regards, Greg Bernstein a �crit : > Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific > examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. > (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported > (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the > ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly > pack them in. > > Currently the draft has: > > 0 1 2 3 0 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | > Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > ---snip--- > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Adaptation Capability-specific information | > | (variable) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be > the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH. > So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? > > Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would > require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single > stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? > > Regards > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or >> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, >> we need to look for a solutions I-D. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and >> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this >> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some >> elements might change. >> >> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >> draft. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> >> > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:25:17 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:15:55 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Peng He Cc: Acee Lindem , Vishwas Manral , Alan Davey , CCAMP List Message-id: <0JPO00LC5PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Peng, On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote: >Hello Mach, > >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) >> > >Understood :-) >> >> >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: >> >> >Hello Mach, >> > >> >Just be curious about the following: >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; >> > >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. >> >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. > >One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the >link(s) is available. Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. > >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS >TE link(s)? As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? > Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it. > >Regards, >Peng Best regards, Mach Chen Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:52:06 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=uQkUNgu890sGdsrhtY5jH0eYrCVEB0Wm/iDBw5MguXg=; b=j+4nOTTdkMes82U4ld+3Z/gl9GSi19QHsLb8DgPcsuo7u0mkiUQjzek1AK8IVl3SmpBAChfS4Mov3cHpBvHPrgUFJgZlBa+9pXzmSuOtEPjdkxXdC5/Z3B4UkYLoQguKtp7/7+c4ivlhIUL3LNTlKghA3pHQywVz81LPesEIk/M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qqPgT3JCMmvEC0PfPezHQQlHE+QY40NTnQhnFxP2B25xfSBhjzxD22+vrTfBlvy8CLKAAlxWLV+50ZRrSKZ82SEB6YyveS3+HVlVNhOqx0XezifqB2cYzwKLLTFFn7yNXFGypnKWiImLjUnKB12zR0ZA5b72EvBwAwWLEAdEafQ= Message-ID: <406e32c00710092050m7b9482eeo674431d6883e455f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:50:55 -0400 From: "Peng He" To: "Mach Chen" Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "Vishwas Manral" , "Alan Davey" , "CCAMP List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Mach, > Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) > Understood :-) > > > On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: > > >Hello Mach, > > > >Just be curious about the following: > >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a > >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > > > >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that > >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming > >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. > > Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR. One question: so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the link(s) is available. Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS TE link(s)? Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability, weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations? Regards, Peng Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:40:03 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:07 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: RE: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Alan Davey Cc: OSPF List , Vishwas Manral , CCAMP List , Acee Lindem Message-id: <0JPO006MDCMB60@szxga02-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Alan, Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) Thanks for your useful comments! On 2007-09-27, at 17:48:59 Alan Davey wrote: >Guys > >Apologies for the late response. > >I basically agree with Acee. > >* It makes sense to define a new OSPFv3-TE LSA type to carry the >AS connectivity information. I think that this would probably provide a >better and more back compatible way to identify the new advertisements >than defining a new link type value. Agree, a new LSA type is a better option for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE. > >* It also makes sense to use the same approach in OSPFv2 and >OSPFv3 and so a new OSPFv2 opaque type may be the way to go. > We are considering whether define a new OSPFv2 opaque type. >My other comments on the draft, from an OSPFv3 TE perspective, are as >follows. > >* On the subject of identifying the other end of the inter-AS >link. > > - The Link ID sub-TLV is not suitable as it SHOULD be ignored >on receipt by an OSPFv3 TE implementation. > > - The Neighbor ID sub-TLV MUST be used instead. This sub-TLV >contains the neighbor's interface ID and the neighbor's 32-bit Router ID >(note that this is NOT the TE Router ID). > > - Use of the Neighbor ID sub-TLV requires configuration at the >ASBR of the remote ASBR's interface ID and the 32-bit Router ID. > Yes, for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE, this will be performed as the current OSPFv3 TE does. > - You may want to advertise a global-scope IPv6 address for the >router at the other end of an inter-AS link in a Remote Interface IPv6 >Address Sub-TLV. This would also need to be configured. > >* As Acee pointed out, there is currently no OSPFv3 TE equivalent >to the Type 11 Opaque LSA, that is, there is no defined LSA for flooding >AS scope TE information. So, allocating a new separate LSA could make it easyly for the inter-AS TE information having area or AS flooding scope. > >* The wording needs to be changed for OSPFv3 TE when describing >the contents of a "proxy" advertisement for the backward direction of an >inter-AD TE link. > OK. >Regards > > >Alan Davey > Best regards, Mach Chen Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:39:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:14 +0800 From: Mach Chen Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt To: Peng He Cc: Acee Lindem , OSPF List , Vishwas Manral , Alan Davey , CCAMP List Message-id: <0JPO003KICMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Peng, Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays) On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote: >Hello Mach, > >Just be curious about the following: >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; > >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the remote ASBR. > >Regards, >Peng > Best regards, Mach Chen Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 11:51:36 +0000 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:49:14 +0900 From: Eiji Oki To: Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Message-Id: <20071009204849.C894.OKI.EIJI@lab.ntt.co.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Support. Eiji On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100 "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to > look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might > change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:43:42 +0000 Message-ID: <07b801c80a58$b0adf750$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:37:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to tidy up the language a bit. Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns before. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > > Title : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label > Switching (GMPLS) Networks > Author(s) : T. Otani, et al. > Filename : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2007-10-08 > > This document describes requirements for operations and management > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:48:22 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=O3dNBqtqvTGqIFz5Iq7XcGmLrH/KgHCuiZq9K+tOzYs=; b=WkjAuW7Wi3M04+Hqm2/VvgtxmS4MY/tWp/Phw9sHy7VQnPueCPYQngo+0MNvvPZXLFa0gUCc4UySKBTcsyPtjfFJF5y/MhkJUsHTRq+YoH7JKFR4UIsEN7xZhCpguzOC5Nxk7o5/0jW5k5P1gbpR3Kq/mpYO5iQgE3AewdBrrDw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=N26duXqCOCnOTK9pNfuljEYiOGYjxYGR3G9KzClaaMmXK3/O3U+NoK0JPjIPuw7pMseKWdriu5fkLhQIdjgZ92NsmzGMAhhK9ryvvIJ75FhKQYTfV1iz4vY2NaE5ID8qxs6GR4wl35MVS+DnLTmlQWR/j4KjRW1n/gZ0JeAgYIs= Message-ID: <8c99930d0710090045ua30cc4hc7beaf426e1626f3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 03:45:56 -0400 From: "Andrew G. Malis" To: "Adrian Farrel" Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Adrian, Thanks for your comments so far. Regarding the references to drafts, those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon. If they get held up, we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting. This issue is a particular sore spot. I'm very mystified in particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs. Everyone is implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in is affecting work both in the IETF and outside. Cheers, Andy On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt > with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS > Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. > > We were requested to respond by 18th October. > > Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so > it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. > > I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following > as a starting-point for a response liaison. > > Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time > for me to send the liaison on October 15th. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > === > Dear David and Rao, > > Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As > you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also > participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is > understandably low. > > We do have the following observations for your consideration. > > 1. References. > > In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our > specifications we are limited to referring only to documents > that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this > document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this > stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final > ballot. > The following list of references falls into this category: > - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te > - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp > - draft-ietf-bfd-base > - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop > - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) > - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter > - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements > - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib > - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib > - draft-ietf-bfd-mib > > 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI > > In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular > to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI > specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of > support. > > Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, > although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in > section 5 does not reference RFC3473. > > Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also > need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. > > 3. Broken Reference > > In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the > reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or > draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. > > Best regards, > Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard > IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:08:42 +0000 Message-ID: <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:07:14 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode. (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly pack them in. Currently the draft has: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Switching Cap | Encoding | Switching Cap | Encoding | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0 | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ---snip--- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7 | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Adaptation Capability-specific information | | (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH. So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field? Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field? Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG > draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:59:25 +0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:58:16 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt To: 'Adrian Farrel' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: 'Tomohiro Otani' , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "'K. Miyazaki'" , "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" Message-id: <002601c809f6$54f18ba0$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcgDakR1Wqrne6KaSOO+a3PewZkcJAGhdccw Hi, I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength switched optical network (WSON). A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid (as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be agreed upon across the network entities. The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. Regards, Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI) Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Hi, I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. Here are some nits and issues in the current draft. === Abstract You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract === Abstract d/ and getting significant/ === Abstract "new generation" Do you mean "next generation" or "new"? === Abstract s/proposes/defines/ === Section 3 s/vendors? network is/vendors' networks are/ === Section 3 "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints." I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph! === Figure 2 The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown in figure 1. === Section 4 I think you need to be careful here. These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language. Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling. === Section 5.2 It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to the CS field. Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so improbable. So, how about... 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ === Section 5.3 To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would suggest the following for CWDM. 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | Reserved | Lambda | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ === Section 6.1 I think some of the progression here is faulty. We have: "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end scope. The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has significance only between two neighbors." It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop. I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D, and could be dropped without any problem. The two things you do need in this section are: 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized Label can be used. 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) or do you propose to define a new field value in the Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object? === Section 6.2 As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda availability is best removed from this I-D. === Section 7 You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you should mention the fact. === Section 10 I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. === Cheers, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:31:28 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:29:15 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Thread-Index: AcgIY3Yv693svNfHRKqOQI3yyibtoQBdDGyg From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" Hi Adrian, My comments below... Thanks, Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:12 AM To: Bardalai, Snigdho; Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi Snigdho, Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. Some thoughts... We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think = it=20 actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly = the=20 same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the=20 SRefresh would not fix the problem. [SCB] We had thought about such an option but as you mention the = solution would=20 have to consider the full refresh scenario as well. In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very = small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between = N2=20 completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say = that=20 N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and = running.=20 That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: - either - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor or - respond to any first received message from a neighbor with which it does not have an active Hello exchange by sending a Hello - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos from neighbors with which it does not have an active Hello exchange [SCB] This is a good and robust solution. Addressing this type of = implementation detail would be a good candidate for the GR-description draft. We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could = either=20 mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources=20 required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are = already=20 in use. In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new = resource=20 allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] = contain=20 "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the=20 PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of=20 failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with=20 "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable = Label Set object. So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. = Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has = Resv=20 state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes = (all=20 of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect = something=20 slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking = the=20 dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything = else=20 is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a = Hello=20 if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set = far to=20 large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because = N1 is=20 not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. = The=20 former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to = be=20 treated with more care than a simple PathTear. [SCB] I believe what we are getting into is the clarification of the = detailed behaviors to cover the various scenarios. I agree that the = GR-description ID would be the ideal place to clarify these. With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of=20 multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh=20 failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was = removed=20 from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) = as=20 second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have=20 draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. I suggest: 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without=20 SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers = your=20 questions about multiple failures. In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and=20 pointer to what they could change. [SCB] Sure, I will provide some text. Cheers, Adrian ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new=20 extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration = times=20 the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the = neighboring=20 node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 = seconds,=20 the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds = then=20 it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on = a=20 new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an = issue=20 with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because = the=20 resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues = sending=20 SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because = there=20 is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes = a=20 Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL = because=20 N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have = not=20 yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and = a=20 real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 = doing=20 anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there=20 something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful=20 restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when=20 communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes=20 nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream = ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D = and=20 E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in = node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:09:56 +0000 Message-ID: <470A8023.6030801@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:08:19 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tomohiro Otani CC: Dan Li , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020804070405000000020707" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020804070405000000020707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a narrow spacing. At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T) at 193.1THz. So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question. Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link either ;-) I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that. When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for example in routing) I could use something like: (Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) + (Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication available/in use). Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like: (Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) + (channel range as a 16 bit integer). Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many other contexts! Regards Greg Tomohiro Otani wrote: > Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, > > Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. > We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. > > I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, > how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? > (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) > > With best regards, > > Tomo > > > Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: > >> Hi, >> >> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing >> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, >> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on >> a hop-by-hop basis. >> >> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the >> wavelength level to choose the path. >> >> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, >> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by >> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. >> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the >> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new >> technologies. >> >> Regards, >> >> Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Greg Bernstein" >> To: "Adrian Farrel" >> Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" >> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM >> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt >> >> >> >> >>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC >>> networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can >>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information >>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment >>> problem. >>> >>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a >>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this >>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range >>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. >>> >>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be >>> used. In >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt >>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel >>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence >>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing >>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to >>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Greg B. >>> >>> Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. >>>> >>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is >>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. >>>> >>>> >>> ---snip--- >>> >>> >>>> === >>>> Section 5.2 >>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits >>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find >>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating >>>> another bit to the CS field. >>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it >>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is >>>> not so improbable. >>>> So, how about... >>>> 0 1 2 3 >>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> === >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> --snip-- >>> >>> >>>> The two things you do need in this section are: >>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? >>>> Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized >>>> Label can be used. >>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used >>>> and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? >>>> Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) >>>> or do you propose to define a new field value in the >>>> Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the >>>> Generalized Label Object? >>>> === >>>> Section 6.2 >>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >>>> availability is best removed from this I-D. >>>> === >>>> Section 7 >>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to >>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security >>>> model, but you should mention the fact. >>>> === >>>> Section 10 >>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. >>>> === >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> =================================================== >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------020804070405000000020707 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a narrow spacing.

At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T) at 193.1THz.

So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question. Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link either ;-)

I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that.

When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for example in routing) I could use something like:

(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) + (Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication available/in use).

Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) + (channel range as a 16 bit integer).

Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many other contexts!

Regards

Greg

Tomohiro Otani wrote:

Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) With best regards, Tomo Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:

Hi, If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on a hop-by-hop basis. But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the wavelength level to choose the path. I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new technologies. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt

Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment problem. For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be used. In http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote:

Hi, I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.

---snip---

=== Section 5.2 It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to the CS field. Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so improbable. So, how about... 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ===

--snip--

The two things you do need in this section are: 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized Label can be used. 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) or do you propose to define a new field value in the Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object? === Section 6.2 As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda availability is best removed from this I-D. === Section 7 You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you should mention the fact. === Section 10 I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. === Cheers, Adrian

-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
--------------020804070405000000020707-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:43:37 +0000 Message-ID: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft response to MFA liaison Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:42:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf. We were requested to respond by 18th October. Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low. I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following as a starting-point for a response liaison. Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time for me to send the liaison on October 15th. Thanks, Adrian === Dear David and Rao, Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is understandably low. We do have the following observations for your consideration. 1. References. In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our specifications we are limited to referring only to documents that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final ballot. The following list of references falls into this category: - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp - draft-ietf-bfd-base - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls) - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib - draft-ietf-bfd-mib 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of support. Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in section 5 does not reference RFC3473. Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules. 3. Broken Reference In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these. Best regards, Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:31:19 +0000 From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:29:05 -0400 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt-05.txt Technical Summary It is highly desired in several cases to take into account Traffic Engineering (TE) node capabilities during path selection for MPLS and G-MPLS Traffic Engineered LSPs (ie, in picking the route for the LSP), such as for instance the capability to act as a branch Label Switching Router (LSR) of a Point-To-MultiPoint (P2MP) LSP. This requires advertising these capabilities within the Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP). For that purpose, this document specifies OSPF and IS-IS traffic engineering extensions for the advertisement of control plane and data plane traffic engineering node capabilities. Working Group Summary No dissent reported. The document is authored by some key CCAMP WG members and received constructive comments from across the WG during its development. The working group has been relatively quiet on this work, but the chairs judge that to be because it is "done and dusted". It is a small protocol feature. The document was shown to the OSPF and ISIS working groups more than once,and the last call was notified to the two IGP working groups. Protocol Quality Ross Callon has reviewed this for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor Section 4.1, replace the first paragraph as follows: OLD: The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. NEW: The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit corresponds to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended with additional 32-bit words if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits. Add the following text at the end of section 4.1, right after the definition of the reserved bits: Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 4, implying that there are more than 32 bits in the value field, then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved. Section 4.2, replace the first paragraph as follows: OLD: The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. NEW: The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit correspond to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended with additional bytes if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits. Update the third paragraph of section 4.2 as follows: OLD The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS [RFC3784]. That is, the TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1 octet specifying the TLV length and a value field. NEW The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the sub-TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS [RFC3784]. That is, the sub-TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1 octet specifying the sub-TLV length and a value field. Add the following text at the end of section 4.2, right after the definition of the reserved bits: Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 1, implying that there are more than 8 bits in the value field, then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved. Section 8.2, first paragraph. Replace: OLD [IS-IS-CAP] defines a new code point registry for sub-TLVs carried in the ISIS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP]. NEW IANA has defined a registry for sub-TLVs of the IS-IS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP]. Please correct the text at the end of the existing section 8.3 as follows: OLD Bit No. Name Reference --------+---------------------------------------+----------- 1 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability [This.I-D] 2 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability [This.I-D] 3 M bit: MPLS-TE support [This.I-D] 4 G bit: GMPLS support [This.I-D] 5 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support [This.I-D] NEW Bit No. Name Reference --------+---------------------------------------+--------------- 0 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 1 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 2 M bit: MPLS-TE support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 3 G bit: GMPLS support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 4 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] >4: Available for assignment | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] IANA Note See RFC editor's note above. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:46:29 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1A401D65-C865-4758-8745-5ECE1F6C71D9@cisco.com> Cc: Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:44:12 -0400 To: Yakov Rekhter DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1719; t=1191851167; x=1192715167; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=Zqmn31IALZemoWYzZwXgyLQY/pc+WKMJP+5aCeQkc9I=; b=T1qzXpS4w/llzLjlG+4BOe+stHD+vholVNeBN0bvehO0HX4DFtq32WwAUZ9LdXs554eN1zWe 5mtGQwh0LyuQ6Vt7VRdoNFl50tDmnK5K+LOUL4/uvjnD7bxWsURAOLkw; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Hi Yakov, On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > JP, > >> Hi, >> >> Sorry for being late in that thread ... > > no problem :-) > >> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D? >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. >>> >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. >>> >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: >>> >>> This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey >>> Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) >>> - CE >>> (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the >>> Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be >>> used >>> to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label >>> >> >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the >> application ... sounds >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE >> TE LSP >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to >> inter-domain >> TE (per domain, PCE, ...). > > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes already defined for the IGPs ? Thanks. JP. > > Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:37:29 +0000 Message-Id: <200710081336.l98DaDn92533@magenta.juniper.net> To: JP Vasseur cc: Adrian Farrel , Yakov Rekhter , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <40351.1191850573.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:36:13 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter JP, > Hi, > > Sorry for being late in that thread ... no problem :-) > On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements > >>> of the Vasseur I-D? > >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > > > > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > > > > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > > > > This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > > Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > > (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > > Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > > to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > > > > Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the > application ... sounds > pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE > TE LSP > is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to > inter-domain > TE (per domain, PCE, ...). Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question. Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:05:00 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Li Cc: Greg Bernstein , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan, Thank you very much for your comments and feedback. We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing. I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment, how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ? (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...) With best regards, Tomo Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: > Hi, > > If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing > problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, > and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on > a hop-by-hop basis. > > But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the > wavelength level to choose the path. > > I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, > current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by > some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. > The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the > "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new > technologies. > > Regards, > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Bernstein" > To: "Adrian Farrel" > Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM > Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > > > >> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC >> networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can >> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information >> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment >> problem. >> >> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a >> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this >> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range >> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. >> >> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be >> used. In >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt >> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel >> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence >> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing >> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to >> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. >> >> Regards >> >> Greg B. >> >> Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by >>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. >>> >>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is >>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a >>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. >>> >> ---snip--- >> >>> === >>> Section 5.2 >>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits >>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find >>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating >>> another bit to the CS field. >>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it >>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is >>> not so improbable. >>> So, how about... >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> === >>> >>> >> --snip-- >> >>> The two things you do need in this section are: >>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? >>> Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized >>> Label can be used. >>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used >>> and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? >>> Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) >>> or do you propose to define a new field value in the >>> Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the >>> Generalized Label Object? >>> === >>> Section 6.2 >>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda >>> availability is best removed from this I-D. >>> === >>> Section 7 >>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the >>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to >>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security >>> model, but you should mention the fact. >>> === >>> Section 10 >>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. >>> === >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Adrian >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> =================================================== >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >> >> >> >> > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:24:16 +0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:22 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt To: Greg Bernstein , Adrian Farrel Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Message-id: <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on a hop-by-hop basis. But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the wavelength level to choose the path. I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label, current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new technologies. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bernstein" To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: ; "Tomohiro Otani" ; ; "K. Miyazaki" ; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt > Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC > networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can > be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information > can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment > problem. > > For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a > fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this > port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range > specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. > > Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be > used. In > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt > we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel > spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence > with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing > Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to > fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. > > Regards > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by > > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > > > > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is > > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a > > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. > ---snip--- > > === > > Section 5.2 > > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits > > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find > > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating > > another bit to the CS field. > > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it > > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is > > not so improbable. > > So, how about... > > 0 1 2 3 > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > === > > > --snip-- > > The two things you do need in this section are: > > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > > Label can be used. > > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > > Generalized Label Object? > > === > > Section 6.2 > > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda > > availability is best removed from this I-D. > > === > > Section 7 > > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the > > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to > > snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security > > model, but you should mention the fact. > > === > > Section 10 > > I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. > > === > > > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > > > > > > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:51:05 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:49:25 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClWut2jd/S5tsT6Gkz26XGZ6fsQEkEnGwAJRQTkA= From: "NIGER Philippe RD-RESA-LAN" To: =20 Hi, I support this I-D as WG draft. Philippe. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed=20 > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and=20 > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20 > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20 > elements might change. >=20 > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG=20 > draft. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:16:31 +0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:13:40 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions To: Adrian Farrel , "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" Message-id: <00fe01c80972$5f51d7a0$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Please see my comments below. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" ; "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions > Hi Snigdho, > > Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. > > Some thoughts... > > We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it > actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the > same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the > SRefresh would not fix the problem. [dan] Agree. Changing the behavior of SRefresh message would not help. > > In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very > small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 > completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that > N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. > That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. [dan] The time window size depends on how quickly the restarted node sends out the Hello message after the communication comes back. I would like to see N2 ignore all received messages until it receives the ACK of the Hello message from N1. > > That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: > - either > - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor > or > - respond to any first received message from a > neighbor with which it does not have an active > Hello exchange by sending a Hello > - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos > from neighbors with which it does not have an active > Hello exchange > [dan] Agree with Adrian. > We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either > mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources > required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already > in use. > > In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource > allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). > > In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain > "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". > In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the > PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of > failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with > "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable > Label Set object. > > So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. > Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv > state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all > of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something > slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the > dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else > is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello > if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. > > In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to > large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is > not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The > former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be > treated with more care than a simple PathTear. [dan] Usually the traffic carried by the data plane is required not be touched when the control plane fails. So N1 should be very careful to take any actions to tear down the LSP. > > With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of > multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh > failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed > from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as > second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have > draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. > > I suggest: > > 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without > SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. > > 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your > questions about multiple failures. > > In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and > pointer to what they could change. [dan] Yes, you're welcome to send us the proposed text for GR-Description ID. > > Cheers, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" > To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM > Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions > > > Hi, > > I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new > extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. > > Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times > the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring > node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, > the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then > it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. > > RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a > new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue > with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. > > Please look-at the sequence diagram below: > > N1 N2 > | | > | X (Restart start) > | HELLO | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | SRefresh | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | HELLO | > |-------------------------------->| > | | > | X (Restart complete) > | SRefresh | > |-------------------------------->| > | NACK | > |<--------------------------------| > | Path (without recovery label) | > |-------------------------------->| > | X (resoure allocation failed because the > resouces are in use) > | PathErr | > |<--------------------------------| > | PathTear | > |-------------------------------->| > X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) > | | > > The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending > SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there > is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a > Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because > N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not > yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a > real test. > > What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing > anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there > something I have missed? > > The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful > restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when > communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes > nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. > > Example, > > A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G > > Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and > E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in > node D? Can this be prevented ? > > Would appreciate your response. > > Regards, > Snigdho > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:01:07 +0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:22 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions To: Arun Satyanarayana , "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" , "Gao, Jianhua" Message-id: <00b101c80956$f296ddb0$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsHi Snigdho, It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473. As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision. For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy. Regards, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Bardalai, Snigdho To: Ccamp (E-mail) Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho --Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Hi Snigdho,

It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.

As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.

For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message -----

From: Bardalai, Snigdho

To: Ccamp (E-mail)

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM

Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions

Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

N1                                N2
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart start)
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart complete)
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
| NACK                           |
|<--------------------------------|
| Path (without recovery label) |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)
| PathErr                        |
|<--------------------------------|
| PathTear                       |
|-------------------------------->|
X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
|                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho
--Boundary_(ID_/94WMXfKIVN7q4yLr/V7xg)-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:35:06 +0000 Message-ID: <04bd01c80814$ff87ff10$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heads-up. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: [Tsvwg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group Working > Group of the IETF. > > > Title : User-Defined Errors for RSVP > Author(s) : G. Swallow, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2007-10-06 > > The Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) defines an ERROR_SPEC object > for communicating errors. That object has a defined format that > permits the definition of 256 error codes. As RSVP has been > developed and extended, the convention has been to be conservative in > defining new error codes. Further, no provision for user-defined > errors exists in RSVP. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:14:36 +0000 Message-ID: <046401c80809$dfb94cd0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp $E-mail$" Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:12:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Snigdho, Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions. Some thoughts... We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the SRefresh would not fix the problem. In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart. That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must: - either - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor or - respond to any first received message from a neighbor with which it does not have an active Hello exchange by sending a Hello - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos from neighbors with which it does not have an active Hello exchange We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already in use. In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP). In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure". In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable Label Set object. So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time. In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be treated with more care than a simple PathTear. With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt. I suggest: 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D. 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your questions about multiple failures. In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and pointer to what they could change. Cheers, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:34:18 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_cbfb7a12-cf69-4ea7-8014-10b207e018d9_" From: =?gb2312?B?va/OrMGu?= To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" , "Ccamp (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 17:31:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 --_cbfb7a12-cf69-4ea7-8014-10b207e018d9_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c497efcf-71fc-41dc-9be2-aebf4ac4e0dd_" --_c497efcf-71fc-41dc-9be2-aebf4ac4e0dd_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, For your first question, I think the key is the restarted node. As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together. And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors. Do you think this way is helpful? If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions. For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'. As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ? 'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart? Regards, Jiang weilian Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsDate: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.comTo: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho _________________________________________________________________ MSN ��ʱ��Ѷ��ۼ��Ż�� http://cn.msn.com --_c497efcf-71fc-41dc-9be2-aebf4ac4e0dd_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi,

For your first question, I think the key is the restarted node.

As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can
periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR
capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the
neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together.

And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors.

Do you think this way is helpful? If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions.

For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'.
      As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ?
      'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?

Regards,
Jiang weilian

Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500
From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Hi,
I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.
Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.
RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.
Please look-at the sequence diagram below:
N1                                N2
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart start)
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
| HELLO                          |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 |
|                                 X (Restart complete)
| SRefresh                       |
|-------------------------------->|
| NACK                           |
|<--------------------------------|
| Path (without recovery label) |
|-------------------------------->|
|                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)
| PathErr                        |
|<--------------------------------|
| PathTear                       |
|-------------------------------->|
X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
|                                 |
The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.
What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?
The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.
Example,
             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G
Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?
Would appreciate your response.
Regards,
Snigdho

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Z2VzdGlvbnMuIA0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkx1b2ppYW4gICAgICAgICAgICAgIEV4cGlyZXM6IE1heSAy MDA2ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFtQYWdlIDExXQ0KDQpJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBkcmFm dC1qaWFuLWNjYW1wLW11bHRpbm9kZXMtcnN2cC1yZXN0YXJ0LTAwIE9jdG9iZXIgMjAwNQ0KDQoN Cg0KDQo= --_cbfb7a12-cf69-4ea7-8014-10b207e018d9_-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:19:59 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035" Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions Thread-Index: AcgHa2EDRFwGGnkzSXasptNzAJPDIQ== From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new = extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09. Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration = times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the = neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval = is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts = within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never = detect a hello failure.=20 RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on = a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an = issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this = scenario. Please look-at the sequence diagram below: N1 N2 | | | X (Restart start) | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | | | HELLO | |-------------------------------->| | | | X (Restart complete) | SRefresh | |-------------------------------->| | NACK | |<--------------------------------| | Path (without recovery label) | |-------------------------------->| | X (resoure allocation failed because = the resouces are in use) | PathErr | |<--------------------------------| | PathTear | |-------------------------------->| X (CON deletion) X (XCON deletion) | | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues = sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes = because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. = This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no = RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted = because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based = on an actual implementation and a real test. What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 = doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is = there something I have missed? The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful = restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when = communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes = nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream = ends. Example, A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D = and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer = expires in node D? Can this be prevented ? Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new = Extensions
Hi,

I have a couple of questions on = RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in = draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any = issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple = (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart = duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the = multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then = it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. =

RFC3473 does describe detection = of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the = hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being = generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence = diagram below:

= N1            = ;            =         N2
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (Restart start)
| = HELLO           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
| = SRefresh           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
| = HELLO           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (Restart = complete)
| = SRefresh           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
| = NACK           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   |
= |<--------------------------------|
| Path (without = recovery label) |
= |-------------------------------->|
= |            =             &= nbsp;        X (resoure allocation = failed because the resouces are in use)
| = PathErr           =              = |
= |<--------------------------------|
| = PathTear           = ;            = |
= |-------------------------------->|
X (CON = deletion)          &nbs= p;       X (XCON deletion)
= |            =             &= nbsp;        |

The issue is because N1 did not = detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get = NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state = corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh = message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did = not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not = yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and = a real test.

What is the solution to this = issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not = compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have = missed?

The other issue I wanted to = understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the = RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node = restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets = isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

           &n= bsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If = this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get = deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be = prevented ?

Would appreciate your = response.

Regards,
Snigdho
------_=_NextPart_001_01C8076B.6194B035-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:07:01 +0000 Message-ID: <47065285.2050100@chello.nl> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:04:37 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I support progressing this document as WG draft, for the same reasons as mentioned by Greg. Cheers, Huub. Greg Bernstein wrote: ===================== > I support this becoming a WG draft. I think those interested in > VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation > capabilities mentioned in the draft. > > Greg B. > > Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed >> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or >> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, >> we need to look for a solutions I-D. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt >> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and >> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this >> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some >> elements might change. >> >> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG >> draft. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian -- ================================================================ http://www.van-helvoort.eu/ ================================================================ Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else... Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:56:14 +0000 Reply-To: From: "Itaru Nishioka" To: Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:01:17 +0900 Organization: nec Message-Id: <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thread-Index: AcgClWut2jd/S5tsT6Gkz26XGZ6fsQEkEnGw I support this draft. Thanks, Itaru. /======================================= / Itaru Nishioka / e-mail:i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com / Tel. +81-44-396-3287 ext. 8-22-72647 / System Platforms Research Labs. / NEC Corporation /======================================= > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft > > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have > completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now > that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons > to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the > requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation > draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the > protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to > become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 01:03:23 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071005095952.065775d0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:00:05 +0900 To: From: Tomonori TAKEDA Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Support Tomonori At 21:31 07/09/29, Adrian Farrel wrote: >Hi, > >Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change. > >Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > >Thanks, >Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:06:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Message-Id: Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:02:44 -0400 To: Adrian Farrel , Yakov Rekhter DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7117; t=1191539038; x=1192403038; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20accepting=20draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt=20as= 20a=20CCAMP=20WG=20document=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Adrian=20Farrel=20,=20Yakov=20Rekhter=20; bh=HysLEW63CoaQI3V0sCbG42w0gIkbUY7BmSx0AI7w9IE=; b=mvWfySJneex3Ysci9m3VyfWAZrIKCwh5tTLX2b46MFu6ruxMqJH7r2d3qw/esJbqTHOAHef5 z57iEYiheC0y+EP78iqIaYKMOJfRQK4dtPZCu+S3Cq0lYXwBSZFyVkxD; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); --Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, Sorry for being late in that thread ... On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements >>> of the Vasseur I-D? >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. > > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. > > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: > > This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey > Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE > (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the > Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used > to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label > Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the application ... sounds pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE TE LSP is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...). My question here is why would you want to redefine TE TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order to avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of interest. Note that the current Abstract: Abstract This document defines a new BGP attribute, Traffic Engineering attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering information. is fairly general ... "carry Traffic Engineering information". Thanks. JP. > A --Apple-Mail-9-630883660 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi,

Sorry for = being late in that thread ...

On Oct 3, 2007, at = 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

2. Could you = conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur = I-D?

In order for me to answer = this question I'd like to get a clear

I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for = him.
Just trying to find out whether = we have two problem spaces or one.

I think the abstract of his I-D = is relatively clear:
=A0 This document proposes MP-BGP = protocol extension so as to convey
=A0 Traffic Engineering Link = characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
=A0 (Customer Edge) links in = order to extend the visibility of the
=A0 Traffic Engineering Database = to those links.=A0 This can = then be used
=A0 to more efficiently compute = CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label

Yakov, let me know if you = need further clarification on the application ... = sounds=A0
pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links = where a CE to CE TE LSP
is needed. The path computation piece = is then very much similar to inter-domain
TE (per domain, PCE, = ...). My question here is why would you want to redefine
TE = TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order = to
avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of = interest.

Note= that the current Abstract:
Abstract

=A0=A0 This document defines a new BGP attribute, = Traffic Engineering
=A0=A0 = attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering = information.

is fairly general = ... "carry Traffic Engineering information".

Thanks.

JP.

A
=

= --Apple-Mail-9-630883660-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:16:30 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Author(s) : G. Bernstein, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-10-4 This document describes requirements for, and use of, the Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane in conjunction with the Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) layer 1 inverse multiplexing mechanism and its companion Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) which can be used for hitless dynamic resizing of the inverse multiplex group. These techniques apply to Optical Transport Network (OTN), Synchronous Optical Network (SONET), Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH), and Plesiochronous Digital Hierarchy (PDH) signals. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-4165753.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-10-4165753.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:00:21 +0000 Message-ID: <470545C2.9010405@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:57:54 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I support this becoming a WG draft. I think those interested in VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation capabilities mentioned in the draft. Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG > draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:18:47 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQACqu6SA= From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "Adrian Farrel" , DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1173; t=1191511039; x=1192375039; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Proposed=20new=20working=20group=20draft |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20,=20; bh=cHJJt2j/SNwoeEfoBAVaWT4t7pZgjJ4l+TIb3upiOEs=; b=o+HeQWnpcX7jeyGxocFznFnJ4j5njbh0aYFF268JQQX+gzqc4mJ7WUh8t/T+lU6y/Et/3WpM FhuMzFiSgBPTClww6laoGBya2H8tToWBxsc0lZAkneyNJSxS02C4i3ye; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); - Support -=20 Thanks Regards... Zafar =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM > > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Subject: Proposed new working group draft > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed=20 > > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20 > have more or=20 > > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20 > this subject,=20 > > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >=20 > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20 > requirements and=20 > > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20 > > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20 > > elements might change. > >=20 > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20 > become a WG=20 > > draft. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Adrian > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:49:58 +0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:47:40 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: 'Adrian Farrel' Message-id: <000001c8068d$217e7470$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcgClVkzFCsBDceCROWRURkjkEKklAD97UFQ I support this I-D. Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:32 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Proposed new working group draft Hi, Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-exte nsions-04.txt has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change. Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:22:10 +0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:20:07 +0900 From: "FUJIHARA Kazuhiro" Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <20071004191352.A661.KAZUHIRO.FUJIHARA@ntt.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I support this ID. Kazuhiro On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100 "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to > look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might > change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > -- FUJIHARA Kazuhiro Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:32:31 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071004171629.03bdd410@imb.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:17:03 +0900 To: From: "inoue.ichiro@lab.ntt.co.jp" Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I support. Ichiro >> Adrian Farrel a $BqD(Brit : >> > Hi, >> > >> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have >> completed >> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we >> have more or >> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on >> this subject, >> > we need to look for a solutions I-D. >> > >> > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr >> > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and >> tracking both >> > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the >> evaluation draft. >> > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in >> > CCAMP even if some elements might change. >> > >> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to >> become a WG draft. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Adrian >> > >> > >> > >> >> Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:00:14 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:59:45 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgGW4jPPhukpQrETJ+bUegeBKqblgAANHWA From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" To: Cc: Hi Adrian, all I strongly support this ID, I'm co-author :-) Regards JL=20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] De la part de Martin Vigoureux > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 octobre 2007 09:49 > =C0 : zzx-adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc : ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Objet : Re: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Adrian, >=20 > I do support this I-D. >=20 > martin >=20 >=20 > Adrian Farrel a =E9crit : > > Hi, > >=20 > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed=20 > > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20 > have more or=20 > > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20 > this subject,=20 > > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr > > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and=20 > tracking both=20 > > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the=20 > evaluation draft.=20 > > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in=20 > > CCAMP even if some elements might change. > >=20 > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20 > become a WG draft. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Adrian > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:54:31 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:53:42 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604E9B875@ftrdmel2> Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClkDw49DcWwWvShyoAk9thdMbBgDxUzeQ From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: Hi all. I support this ID which deserves its WG status. Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi, Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed = last=20 call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less=20 reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we = need to=20 look for a solutions I-D. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-e= xtensions-04.txt=20 has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and = the=20 lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides = a=20 good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20 change. Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG = draft. Thanks, Adrian=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:49:09 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian, I do support this I-D. martin Adrian Farrel a �crit : > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:53:14 +0000 Message-ID: <47048D01.6000707@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:49:37 +0900 From: Kohei Shiomoto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Yes, I agree to make it WG document. Kohei > Hi, > > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, > we need to look for a solutions I-D. > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt > has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some > elements might change. > > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:04:17 +0000 Message-ID: <0a8001c805f0$22c11bf0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Yakov Rekhter" , Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:03:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the >> Vasseur I-D? > > In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear > description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him. Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one. I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear: This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the Traffic Engineering Database to those links. This can then be used to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label A Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:55:15 +0000 Message-Id: <200710031851.l93Iptn72353@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" cc: "Yakov Rekhter" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <49548.1191437515.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:51:55 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Adrian, > Yakov, > > >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt > >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision > >> 03) > >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > > > > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice). > > I ain't proposing nothin' > > > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable, > > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will > > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast, > > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the > > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute. > > That is probably a good reason to start with. > > >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite > >> worrying. > >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. > > > > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN. > > Two questions: > > 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its > applicability to L1VPNs? No, as we are not in the business of predicting the future and therefore not in the business of limiting future applications of the I-D. > 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the > Vasseur I-D? In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D. Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:46:38 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani , ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" , "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment problem. For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas. Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be used. In http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow. Regards Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic. > > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case. ---snip--- > === > Section 5.2 > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating > another bit to the CS field. > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is > not so improbable. > So, how about... > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > === > --snip-- > The two things you do need in this section are: > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label? > Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized > Label can be used. > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used > and when an existing Generalized Label is being used? > Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done) > or do you propose to define a new field value in the > Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the > Generalized Label Object? > === > Section 6.2 > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda > availability is best removed from this I-D. > === > Section 7 > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to > snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security > model, but you should mention the fact. > === > Section 10 > I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references. > === > > Cheers, > Adrian > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:43:07 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:40:37 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380017D1E85@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQ From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Adrian Farrel" , adrian =20 - support -=20 -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Proposed new working group draft >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20 > completed last=20 > call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have=20 > more or less=20 > reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this=20 > subject, we need to=20 > look for a solutions I-D. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp- > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt=20 > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20 > requirements and the=20 > lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that=20 > this provides a=20 > good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20 > change. >=20 > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20 > become a WG draft. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:43:04 +0000 Message-ID: <029601c805d3$f0dd6a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:41:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yakov, >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision >> 03) >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice). I ain't proposing nothin' > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable, > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast, > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute. That is probably a good reason to start with. >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite >> worrying. >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. > > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN. Two questions: 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its applicability to L1VPNs? 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur I-D? Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:21:12 +0000 Message-Id: <200710031519.l93FJTn14985@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Yakov Rekhter" , "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5917.1191424769.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:19:29 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Adrian, > Hi Yakov, > > Could you explain why we would want to adopt > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) > rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice). For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable, as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast, draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute. > The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. > Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN. > Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and > if that is a representative application then your scope is identical > to the Vasseur draft. Yakov. > > Thanks, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" > ; > Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" > ; > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM > Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG > document > > > > Deborah and Adrian, > > > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > > in the latest version. > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:36:40 +0000 Message-ID: <47039874.4080600@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0900 From: Kohei Shiomoto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Dimitri Papadimitriou , Jean-Louis Le Roux , Martin Vigoureux , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: Last call completed on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adrian Thank you for your comments. We will update the ids on reqs and eval for mln according to ITU's comments and yours. I think that we can start with the mln solution id now. Let me respond to your comments in short... Regarding the renaming the virual TE-link, I would prefer keep it because RFC4397 already defines it. Regarding the adaptaion capabilities in place of switching capabilities, we will clarify it. We will consider the solution in revising the solution i-d. Regarding the virtual node model, it might be a solution to represent the inter-layer connectivity. We will consider it in revising the solution i-d. Anyway we will revise the ids. Thanks, Kohei > Hi, > > Working group last call completed on > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt with a few comments to consider. > > The question was raised about the naming of "virtual TE links." It was > suggested that "potential" be considered as a more appropriate word, > partly because of the existing overload of "virtual" in various > contexts, and partly to tie in with the ASON use of terminology. Could > the authors please think about this and propose a resolution. > > We also received some comments from the ITU-T in their liaison > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/368/. They raise some issues for > our consideration and the authors need to address these points so that > they can update the I-D if necessary, and so we can respond to the ITU-T > as necessary. > > Adaptation > - They suggest that we should include a definition of Adaptation. > - They suggest advertising the adaptation capability/ies of a link in > place of the switching capabilities. I am confused by this because I > would have thought that both pieces of information are needed. It may be > that the ITU-T are assuming that the technology layer is known a priori. > It is certainly the case that multiple switching or adaptation > capabilities should be able to be advertised on a single link, and I > think this is in the I-Ds, but maybe it needs clarification. > - Abstract representations of layers and adaptations may be > advantageous. Although this might be a solution-specific issue, if there > are requirements they should be drawn out. > > Virtual Node > The ITU-T suggests that the virtual node model might be applied as a > solution architecture alongside the virtual links. Maybe the > requirements draft could include some comments on this. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > -- Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan Phone +81 422 59 4402 Fax +81 422 59 3787 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:12:46 +0000 Message-ID: <01bc01c805a5$a2f691b0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , , "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:57:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Yakov, Could you explain why we would want to adopt draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and if that is a representative application then your scope is identical to the Vasseur draft. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" ; Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk" ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document > Deborah and Adrian, > > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments > in the latest version. > > Yakov. > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:35:56 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=u4gd3N5L9WbeZCiAqfn+oYcVvsFn1uAGM3ghkX+J1pw=; b=d9a579ZdGCYqDU3aWKSd2pJJpuN0tmJnS1MQodXDnzjZKRZeA05nz4DQa6E+bYczjT6xR2ZbsXHxhhXOdLYir2w0+hCHUZhWNNzZT8qlWePu8SGwX7LoBKE1KelcmgkP1sjl+Y/AGMEDxss/49aiJbFBgQmWUTsek4OOraccQaY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lqVdbc2qSdVTnyGFqCpjWv57zlrN0FZ4rWrWMLPbmqjgYXb78NbLpSHuVCwMSzoaxqamvdugaURvK15w6dRZgOGdf5pb3u3GK9ddva+DcWghKv+9SMkx/y6X1lgk1KY5V1w1lpHJaSEkStSEenq+QS9QsjiuFeBiG2p8AEiGkAs= Message-ID: <406e32c00710021933k2077d317r8441ae43407e3038@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0400 From: "Peng He" To: "Mach Chen" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "OSPF List" , "Vishwas Manral" , "Alan Davey" , "CCAMP List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Mach, Just be curious about the following: >>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a "proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link; What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming inter-AS link(s)? Thanks. Regards, Peng Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:24:09 +0000 To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: "Jeroen van der Ham" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Cc: swallow@cisco.com Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length From: George Swallow Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:21:52 -0400 Message-Id: <20071002202152.E19863DD64A@dhcp-161-44-113-216.cisco.com> DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=576; t=1191356519; x=1192220519; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=swallow@cisco.com; z=From:=20George=20Swallow=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Question=20about=20TLV,=20subTLVs=20and=20length=20 |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20; bh=9OpJPC1AwABK99eY6VJFIoACqQ98pqywmObWBKIhxXw=; b=JLGSwlVd4oeHB6+N4POHxNDZZl298lmNdLuAQ4dzRK7OvbaWMPfogowZBVDTdn8CQELv16Km DHHn7wKmRpvXJt2x5r89G1ph0B9CPKpJnGf4QPRqfxEARskB+y51D+ej; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=swallow@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); > > I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the > > length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce > > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into > > problems. > > Exactly. Actually 4 bytes or more (more than 3 bytes). ...George ======================================================================== George Swallow Cisco Systems (978) 936-1398 1414 Massachusetts Avenue Boxborough, MA 01719 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:15:24 +0000 Message-ID: <016b01c8050f$52c37a50$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Jeroen van der Ham" , Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:14:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jeroen, > The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following: > >> The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets >> (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero). The >> TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the >> length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three, >> but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets). Nested TLVs >> are also 32-bit aligned. For example, a one-byte value would have >> the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added >> to the end of the value portion of the TLV. Unrecognized types are >> ignored. I guess you are quoting from RFC4970 that repeats and adds to the tex in RFC3630? > To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs, > and their impact on the length of the upper TLV. Sub-TLVs form part of the V of the parent TLV. > The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the > length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length > of the (enclosing) TLV? Hah! Nice question. Consider that the L field has two purposes. 1. To define the actual length of the V field 2. To allow a parser to step over the whole TLV without decoding it In order to perform the second, the operation on a TLV with multiple sub-TLVs it is essential that the L of the parent TLV includes all of the padding implicit in the sub-TLVs. > I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the > length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into > problems. Exactly. > I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be > worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on > this issue. If you were quoting text from the OSPF RFCs, you might want to take this to the OSPF list for confirmation. Cheers, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:39:39 +0000 Message-ID: <47026588.7000002@science.uva.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:36:40 +0200 From: Jeroen van der Ham User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following: > The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets > (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero). The > TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the > length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three, > but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets). Nested TLVs > are also 32-bit aligned. For example, a one-byte value would have > the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added > to the end of the value portion of the TLV. Unrecognized types are > ignored. To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs, and their impact on the length of the upper TLV. The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length of the (enclosing) TLV? I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into problems. I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on this issue. Jeroen. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 07:28:21 +0000 Message-ID: <4701F257.3040207@alcatel-lucent.fr> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:25:11 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Bernstein CC: Igor Bryskin , ccamp , pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Greg, please see below best regards, martin Greg Bernstein a �crit : > Hi Igor, see comments below. > > Igor Bryskin wrote: >> >> Greg, >> >> >> >> I believe the draft is very useful. >> > --> Thanks! >> >> >> >> I have a couple of questions comments: >> >> >> >> 1. Section : 4.4. Traffic Grooming: Combining WSON and Higher Layer Network >> >> Optimization >> >> >> >> How the problem of grooming of higher layer network traffic over >> optical trails is any different from the problem of traffic grooming >> in TDM (e.g. VC12 over VC4)? I mean this is a general problem of >> inter-layer relationship. I suggest moving all higher layer network >> considerations out of scope of the draft and focusing on specifics of >> the OCh layer. >> > --> Some of my co-authors agree with you on moving this section out. > The reason that I put it in was that the optical "Traffic Grooming" > problem has received a fair amount of attention in the research and > general technical literature and is also a driver for the use of ROADMs > (optical bypass). I guess in general we've got the following > inter-related problems: (a) virtual network topology design, (b) lower > layer connection routing, (c) higher layer flow routing. In our case (b) > is the RWA problem, which is fairly difficult in its own right. I guess > I should look closely at the MLN/MRN work and see if a specific example > that includes RWA is mentioned. If so then I'd feel fine removing this > section from the document. Optical considerations are not explicitly covered in MRN/MLN documents anymore, but we still talk a lot about virtual topologies in multi-layer/region contexts. Optical considerations were covered at the very beginning of these documents, at the time they were called HPN (Hybrid Photonic Networks). http://www.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vigoureux-ccamp-gmpls-architecture-hpn-00 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:09:12 +0000 Message-Id: <200710011906.l91J6cn44824@magenta.juniper.net> To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" , yakov@juniper.net Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <79749.1191265598.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Deborah and Adrian, On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document. This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments in the latest version. Yakov. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:17:36 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88" Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:16:08 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF684B2BDD4@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks... Thread-Index: AcgCGPrm079Irid9SsOzH8bH1pbmZQCI4MAw From: "Diego Caviglia" To: "Greg Bernstein" , "Igor Bryskin" Cc: "ccamp" , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Igor hi Greg, I think this is a very interesting discussion. =20 =20 IMHO the point Igor raised is on the boundary between network planning = and circuit provisioning I mean the decision to have a node with/without = conversion capability is a planning decision, likely dependent by a = given traffic forecast and a physical topology. Moreover the same = consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that an LSP = needs 3R due to optical impairments. =20 A possible solution to say that loopback are not allowed and thus if an = LSP for some reason needs a loopback the PCE must return an error. This = information can be used to improve the wavelength conversion/3R = capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more = wavelength converter. The other solution is to allow loopback. =20 =20 Best Regards Diego =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Greg Bernstein Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 23.44 To: Igor Bryskin Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical = Networks... =20 Very good catch Igor. See in line. Igor Bryskin wrote:=20 --snip--=20 =20 2. Considering wavelength conversion inevitably brings to the problem of = looped paths, which is a completely new ball game in path computation, = and I am surprised that the issue was never mentioned in the draft. --> How is this different from the "looping" that can occur with a TDM = multiplexer in a drop and continue mode? Also in these two circuit = cases (TDM, and optical) do we have the same danger as in the packet = case where looping traffic can greatly degrade other flows. Was there = some general looping concerns already published for GMPLS with respect = to circuits? =20 =20 IB>> There is a profound difference. I am not talking here about = accidental looping, rather about deliberate looping: if some nodes can = perform wavelength conversion while others can not, then you will want = to route the connection to one or several conversion points and after = that get it back on the main path. In other words you will deliberately = request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS RSVP-TE to = signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of work = for both PCE and RSVP. --> I thought you were worried about accidental loops. I didn't even = consider what you are talking about "looping", but would RSVP processing = get fouled up? It sure looks like a loop at the "node" level.=20 In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could definitely be = repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. This is = definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM case. = I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. = Thanks! =20 Cheers,=20 Igor =20 ________________________________ --snip-- --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Igor hi = Greg,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I think this is a very interesting discussion. =A0

IMHO the point Igor raised is on = the boundary between network planning and circuit provisioning I mean the = decision to have a node with/without conversion capability is a planning decision, = likely dependent by a given traffic forecast and a physical topology. = =A0Moreover the same consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that = an LSP needs 3R due to optical impairments.

A possible solution to say that = loopback are not allowed and thus if an LSP for some reason needs a loopback the = PCE must return an error. =A0This information can be used to improve the = wavelength conversion/3R capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more = wavelength converter.=A0 The other solution is to allow loopback.=A0 =

Best = Regards

Diego

=A0=A0

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Bernstein
Sent: venerd=EC 28 = settembre 2007 23.44
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp; = pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some = key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...

Very good catch Igor. See in line.

Igor Bryskin wrote:

--snip-- =

2. Considering wavelength = conversion inevitably brings to the problem of looped paths, which is a completely = new ball game in path computation, and I am surprised that the issue was never = mentioned in the draft.

--> How is this different from the "looping" that can occur with a TDM multiplexer in a drop and continue mode? Also in these two circuit cases (TDM, and optical) = do we have the same danger as in the packet case where looping traffic can = greatly degrade other flows. Was there some general looping concerns = already published for GMPLS with respect to circuits? =

IB>> There is a profound = difference. I am not talking here about accidental looping, rather about deliberate looping: if some nodes can perform wavelength conversion while others = can not, then you will want to route the connection to one or several conversion = points and after that get it back on the main path. In other words you will deliberately request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS = RSVP-TE to signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of = work for both PCE and RSVP.

--> I thought you were worried about = accidental loops. I didn't even consider what you are talking about "looping", but would RSVP processing get fouled up? It sure = looks like a loop at the "node" level.
In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could = definitely be repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. = This is definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM = case. I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. = Thanks!

Cheers, =

Igor=

--snip--

--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) = 573-2237

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:45:27 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C80428.8A87C582" Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:44:05 +0200 Message-ID: <1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D1DB2@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks... Thread-Index: AcgCCFAxVs5keUR2TRWXpXsR0QfyhgCFxxNw From: "Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)" To: "Greg Bernstein" Cc: "ccamp" , DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=27622; t=1191242574; x=1192106574; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=giomarti@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Giovanni=20Martinelli=20(giomarti)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[Pce]=20Some=20key=20issues=20with=20Wavelength=20Swi tched=20Optical=20Networks... |Sender:=20; bh=L+NnBxiPMJuwFBqBiMY4rFl/bi2QzhsR7RoNGbquvhA=; b=GyW9MG6R+p9aAZPSlsDnLOshKQ3E84DsWLpIYOTKnSub255sqdMcplX7jjR91xPMW2lqDEiQ h7Fi5LPCS+RTg//bq1iLBm0+a585HnaarrV9cSWfMSeIDbmZmGif5wDq; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=giomarti@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80428.8A87C582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, =20 ________________________________ From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20 Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 21.47 To: Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti) Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical = Networks... =09 =09 Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read. Looks like you caught some = problems with the text. See below for comments. =09 Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20 Hi Greg, =20 Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a = while so yes, it's interesting. Before going on specific issue I would = have some question/clarification regarding the draft itself.=20 =20 =20 * Within Abstract and the following. You don't talk about Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing = or understated somewhere? -->Whoops. We were trying to find a more general term to include both = ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a completely = symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to = have gone with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases. = Talked with some equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that = seemed to incorporate both so we made sure the model could deal with = both sparse and dense potential connectivity. Diego had some terminology = ideas but lately his e-mails have been bouncing back to me. Any = suggestions are appreciated, but we are including both ROADM and OXCs.=20 =20 My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and picture = used later on the draft. At least in my understanding the OXC is a = general case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a = matter of terminology. =20 =20 =20 * Section 3.1 where you state:=20 "A fixed mapping between the=20 GMPLS label space and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] " Does it implies a sort of network level label space? How relate with = usual local label significance? --> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and wavelengths/lambda, = just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the ITU-T G.707 "S, U, K, L, M = " identification of SDH time slots to a label format in RFC4606 and = again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time slot = identification into a technology specific label format. In RFC3471 for = lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning attached. = Every network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in = a different way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 = lead and using the ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a = fixed association between labels and lambdas just like between labels = and TDM time slots in the SDH/ODU case. =09 This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In the wavelength = switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or absence of = wavelength converters.=20 =20 Ok. Local significance but global semantic (as pointed out by Adrian in = a previous mail).=20 =20 =20 * Section 3.4 Wavelength Converters=20 "Current or envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : ..." Could we think to a description/model for wavelength converter that is = technology agnostic? Simply something like: full conversion capability, = partial conversion capability with some constrains, and may be others. --> The difference, between the all optical techniques and the OEO = based techniques makes that difficult. =09 =20 =20 * Section 3.4. the following:=20 "4. Wavelength converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction = based on the modulation format and transmission speed"=20 Not clear to me the type of restriction here when OEO happens... = probably I'm missing what you mean here. --> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter would be = build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator = cares about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and = the symbol rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength = converter will be fairly independent of these issues (except when we = look at impairment factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be = more signal specific than the all optical.=20 =20 ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a general model as = you marked with TBD.=20 =20 =20 * Section 4.1 when you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics: "Lightpath connection duration has typically been thought of as=20 approximately three time frames: "=20 and the following you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static. Why there's a need of this classification? When you us Short/long is = compared to what? --> In most of the research literature and in optimization practice = different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static (or = psuedo static cases). In MPLS there is minimum interference routing = optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I = could apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of = connections. In the RWA literature there is a similar differentiation. = Exactly what information could be sent to help PCE differentiate I'm not = sure. In the case of static, batch optimization we can just use the = existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an individual = lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long = the connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we = might want to put into optimize it.=20 =20 ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for the moment. =20 Thanks, Giovanni =20 =20 minor typo on your mail below: point (c) rfc4328 (not 4238) right? --> Yes. The G.709 signaling extensions RFC. =09 =20 Thanks, Giovanni =09 =20 ________________________________ From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20 Sent: gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42 To: ccamp; pce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical = Networks... =09 =09 Hi folks, I haven't seen too many comments on our draft "Framework = for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength Switched Optical Networks" ( = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-swit= ched-01.txt). So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial = issues that the draft brings up.=20 =09 (a) The draft brings up models for the following WDM network = elements: =09 1. WDM links=20 2. Optical transmitters =09 3. Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20 4. ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20 For items (3) and (4) we are taking the modeling lead rather than = some other SDO. And for ROADMs, in particular, we going beyond the = classic ITU-T "fabric" model (M.3100) which has been the mainstay of any = connection oriented switch (TDM, ATM, MPLS). =09 (b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but three) different = computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and PCE protocols: =09 1. A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20 2. Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a different = PCE computes the wavelength assignment=20 3. A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is accomplished = in a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set objects)=20 Do we really need all three models? =09 (c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section and Optical = Channels. RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for G.709 (Optical = Transport Network) control. Weren't we finished with all this optical = stuff years ago? =09 I'd like to think the draft answers some of these questions. I also = think that network element models and the process models are important = enough to warrant this separate framework document. Your opinions are = solicited. =09 Regards =09 Greg B. =09 --=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =09 =20 --=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80428.8A87C582 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,

From: Greg Bernstein=20 [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
Sent: venerd=EC 28 = settembre=20 2007 21.47
To: Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)
Cc: = ccamp;=20 pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with = Wavelength=20 Switched Optical Networks...

Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read. Looks like = you caught=20 some problems with the text. See below for = comments.

Giovanni=20 Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20
Hi=20 Greg,

Sorry for the=20 delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a while so yes, = it's=20 interesting. Before going on specific issue I would have some=20 question/clarification regarding the draft itself. =

* = Within Abstract=20 and the following.

You = don't talk about=20 Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing or understated=20 somewhere?

-->Whoops. We were trying to find a more general term to = include=20 both ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a = completely=20 symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to = have gone=20 with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases. Talked = with some=20 equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that seemed to = incorporate both=20 so we made sure the model could deal with both sparse and dense = potential=20 connectivity. Diego had some terminology ideas but lately his e-mails = have=20 been bouncing back to me. Any suggestions are appreciated, but = we are=20 including both ROADM and OXCs.

My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and = picture=20 used later on the draft. At least in my understanding the OXC is a = general=20 case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a matter of=20 terminology.

* Section 3.1=20 where you state:

"A fixed=20 mapping between the

GMPLS label space=20 and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "

Does = it implies a=20 sort of network level label space? How relate with usual local label = significance?

--> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and=20 wavelengths/lambda, just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the = ITU-T G.707=20 "S, U, K, L, M " identification of SDH time slots to a label format in = RFC4606=20 and again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time = slot=20 identification into a technology specific label format. In = RFC3471 for=20 lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning = attached. Every=20 network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in a = different=20 way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 lead and = using the=20 ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a fixed association = between=20 labels and lambdas just like between labels and TDM time slots in the = SDH/ODU=20 case.

This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In = the=20 wavelength switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or = absence=20 of wavelength converters.

Ok. Local significance but global semantic (as pointed = out by=20 Adrian in a previous mail).

* Section 3.4=20 Wavelength Converters

"Current or=20 envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : = ..."

Could we think to a description/model for = wavelength=20 converter that is technology agnostic? Simply=20 something like: full conversion capability, partial = conversion=20 capability with some constrains, and may be=20 others.
--> The difference, between the = all=20 optical techniques and the OEO based techniques makes that = difficult.

* Section 3.4.=20 the following:

"4. Wavelength=20 converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =

based on the=20 modulation format and transmission speed"

Not = clear to me the=20 type of restriction here when OEO happens... probably I'm missing = what you=20 mean here.

--> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter = would be=20 build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator = cares=20 about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and the = symbol=20 rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength = converter will=20 be fairly independent of these issues (except when we look at = impairment=20 factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be more signal specific = than=20 the all optical.

ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a = general=20 model as you marked with TBD.

* = Section 4.1 when=20 you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:

"Lightpath=20 connection duration has typically been thought of as =

approximately=20 three time frames: "

and = the following=20 you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.

Why = there=92s a need=20 of this classification? When you us Short/long is compared to=20 what?

--> In most of the research literature and in optimization = practice=20 different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static = (or=20 psuedo static cases). In MPLS there is minimum interference = routing=20 optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I = could=20 apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of=20 connections. In the RWA literature there is a similar=20 differentiation. Exactly what information could be sent to help = PCE=20 differentiate I'm not sure. In the case of static, batch optimization = we can=20 just use the existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an = individual=20 lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long = the=20 connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we = might want=20 to put into optimize it.

ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for = the=20 moment.

Thanks,

Giovanni

minor typo on your mail below: point = (c) rfc4328=20 (not 4238) right?
--> Yes. = The G.709=20 signaling extensions RFC.

Thanks,

Giovanni

From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networkin= g.com]=20
Sent: gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42
To: = ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: = [Pce] Some=20 key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical=20 Networks...

Hi folks, I haven't seen too many = comments=20 on our draft "Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength = Switched=20 Optical Networks" ( http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernst= ein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt).=20 So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial issues = that the=20 draft brings up.

(a) The draft brings up models for the = following=20 WDM network elements:

WDM links=20
Optical transmitters

Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20
    For items (3) and (4) we are taking = the=20 modeling lead rather than some other SDO. And for ROADMs, in = particular, we going beyond the classic ITU-T "fabric" model = (M.3100)=20 which has been the mainstay of any connection oriented switch = (TDM, ATM,=20 MPLS).

(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but = three)=20 different computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and = PCE=20 protocols:

A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a = different PCE=20 computes the wavelength assignment=20
A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is = accomplished in=20 a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set = objects)=20
    Do we really need all three=20 models?

(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section = and=20 Optical Channels. RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for=20 G.709 (Optical Transport Network) control. Weren't we = finished=20 with all this optical stuff years ago?

I'd like to think = the draft=20 answers some of these questions. I also think that network = element=20 models and the process models are important enough to warrant this = separate framework document. Your opinions are=20 solicited.

Regards

Greg B.
--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
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