RE: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at = WTP/AC

From: Dorothy Stanley [mailto:<= SPAN id=3Dlw_1172800621_0 style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">dst= anley1389@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:= 36 AM
To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; <= SPAN id=3Dlw_1172800621_3 style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Conse= nsus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

All,

As discussed at the interim meeting, o= ption 2 does not provide
interoperability between WTPs and all CAPWAP = AC implementations.
A CAPWAP compliant local-encryption only WTP will = not work
in a CAPWAP compliant deployment using central encryption.I prefer option 1, for the following reasons:

- Option 1 supports= encryption differentiation at the AC, consistent with current
implem= entations, and guarrantees that all CAPWAP compliant WTPs work in any
= CAPWAP deployment. This is analagous to, for example, dual-mode cellphone= s, which
interoperate with multiple network (AC encryption) types.
=
[Abhijit] Option 2 will also allow interoperability as ce= ntral

encryption = mode will be supported at the WTP as an

optional&nbs= p;mode.

- Option 1 WTPs support all 802.11 s= ecurity guarrantees,
and provide end to end station-to-AC security. O= ption 2 WTPs do not
support all 802.11 security guarrantees.

[Abhijit] I'm sorry I did not understand this point. If a WTP

is = 802.11i compliant, it will support all 802.11 security

= ; guarantees. If the issue is one of secure transport, that

&n= bsp; is why DTLS was proposed for the data channel.

- The "= cost" of supporting central encryption in 802.11 chipsets is
ex= tremely minimal and is provided today by many major enterprise AP (WTP)802.11 chipset manufacturers. To require that the CAPWAP binding protoc= ol be
backwards compatible with every 802.11 chipset ever manufactured= , including those targeted for and
included in station devices only is not reasonable.

= [Abhijit] = I think it would be nice to have chip-set vendors

&nbs= p; chime in here. It's not clear that this can be

&nbs= p; easily supported. And if it can, then WTP vendors

&nb= sp; will anyway support the optional mode (ce= ntralized encryption),

so= there should be no issue. We should not be including=

= requirements that essentially eliminate a section of the AP<= /FONT>

= ; vendors from being CAPWAP compliant.

&nb= sp;
- Required 802.11 feature su= pport. Option 1 enables all required 802.11
features to be suppo= rted in a deployment as needed.

<= FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[Abhijit] Encryption at the AC is restrictive in the sense= that

= ; it prevents deployments from fragment= ing and encrypting

&nbs= p; at the WTP which may be neede= d for some 802.11e modes.

&nbs= p; It also makes it impos= sible to do aggregation at the WTP

for 802.= 11n. Now some AC vendors may choose this mode,

=20

b= ut forcing ALL WTP vendors to support this seems unnecessary.=

= ; Option 2 allows vendors who want to support this mode, to

= support it as an option.

Dorothy Stanley

On 2/27/07, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) &= lt;pcalhoun@cisc= o.com> wrote:

As we discussed during the interim meeting, I do = not like option 1
because it places the interoperability burden on the= WTP. It requires
that the WTP support both modes of operation, as opp= osed to simply
making one mandatory and the other optional (which is w= hat option 2
does). Therefore, I prefer option 2 for the following re= asons:
- Guaranteed 802.11 chipset compatibility. The first proposal a= ssumes
that the WTP will receive frames from the WTP that failed decry= ption.
This is because in the first proposal, it does require that the= frame be
encrypted over the air, but that the WTP not have the keys = required to
decrypt the frame. It is possible, and even likely, that s= ome chipsets
out there simply drop packets that fail decryption, whil = the proposal
does require the chip to pass the packet to the CPU. I a= m concerned that
by selecting option 1, we will rule out vendors that happen to have
chosen the wrong chip= set in their WTP.
- Does not impact 802.11 protocol. There are feature= s in 802.11e and
802.11n that will be significantly impacted because o= f this protocol.
The areas of impact are mostly from a performance sta= ndpoint. For
instance, the first proposal requires that packets be enc= rypted on the
AC, but 802.11n's A-MSDU (packet aggregation feature) r= equires that
encryption occurs after aggregation. Clearly, buffering p= ackets on the
AC for extended periods of time in order to perform the = aggregation
function will increase jitter/latency. The best place to d= o aggregation
is on the WTP as it is a natural place for buffering to = occur due to its
slow link (radio). Packet aggregation is an area that= will significant
increase link throughput, and the promise of 802.11= n. This is further
complicated by the fact that any performance proble= ms will result in the
custmer calling the WTP vendor, which has no way to resolve this
problem.
= - Simplest to implement on WTP. I think that it is in our best interestto limit the complexity on the WTP, and option 2 certainly does so.
=

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Sy= stems

________________________________

&n= bsp;      From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com=
[mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com ]
    &nbs= p;   Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
&nbs= p;      To: capwap@frascone.com
&= nbsp;       Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Doroth= y.Gellert@nokia.com
      &nb= sp; Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:
encryption/d= ecryption atWTP/AC

      &nb= sp; Dear CAPWAP WG,
       &nb= sp;During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we
di= scussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but
d= id not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length
since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past = few months.

        The c= hairs would like to close this issue  with WG consensus on
o= ne of the following proposals that have the most WG support:

= ;       1) To provide system component= interoperability, the WTP MUST
support 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the WTP, and the WTP MUST
support 802.11 encryption/decryption at t= he AC. The AC MUST support
either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = WTP or 802.11
encryption/decryption at the AC.

  &nb= sp;     The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryptio= n/decryption at the WTP
and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.        -OR-
  &nbs= p;     2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC
must suppor= t 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY
support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.

    &n= bsp;   Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11<= BR>encryption/decryption at the AC.
     &nb= sp;  As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTL= S in
the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
&nb= sp;      Please submit your choice and opin= ions on this topic to the WG
list by March 1st for a final consensus c= all on this feature.   This is
a short consensus call since= the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68
is March 5th.   = If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next
week, this issue w= ill remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review
in IEEE.

        Best Regard= s,
        Dorothy, Mani and M= argaret.

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
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Autos' Green Center. =20 --0-1513083277-1172800735=:22827-- --===============1312533618== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1312533618==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 21:09:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMxDb-0007Xs-BO for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:09:59 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMxDV-00058N-JA for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:09:59 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E098743150F for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6CA4A41D8 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B455939DE9C for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from web62409.mail.re1.yahoo.com (web62409.mail.re1.yahoo.com [69.147.75.86]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D4DB5398048 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 50168 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2007 02:09:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dLhIhw0VM1k2ZnEjBrka333m9RgSWMDSLrj7hLkHDE5ynl4eCQQ78hAfgSi.Zl9zeeibeAiZwKn1gry.dKfK_wQa0GBNDAOs1qcpwX8fg75BIHIs.6JWIpF9FnzDYOsv1wWyLNydkiCGEPI- Received: from [171.71.133.91] by web62409.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:09:30 PST Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: Abhijit Choudhury To: capwap@frascone.com, s.kelly@ix.netcom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <234615.48976.qm@web62409.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.845 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: ** Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryption at WTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: abhijit@ieee.org List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0192627749==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de672dd48bf7248e70d446cd2da63266 --===============0192627749== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2126133220-1172801370=:48976" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --0-2126133220-1172801370=:48976 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Scott, =20 I don't think Option 2 in any way prevents centralized encryption from= being deployed. It just doesn't mandate that the WTP vendors MUST suppo= rt both modes. An AC doing centralized encryption can still interoperate= with WTPs that implement this option. =20 As for your discussion on how secure centralized encryption is, let me = point out that with encryption at the WTP and the DTLS on the data channe= l, one will have to break into the WTP and intercept the data between the= 802.11i decryption and the DTLS encryption to compromise the security. O= n the other hand with centralized encryption,the entire 802.11 header and= the CAPWAP header is unauthenticated and in the clear making it possible= to launch several kinds of spoofing attacks. =20 Again, like I said, the issue is not to debate which mode of operation = - encryption at the WTP or encryption at the AC - is better. The question= is whether WTPs should be forced to support both modes, or if supporting= encryption at the AC as an option is good enough. I would argue that the= latter is sufficient. =20 Regards, Abhijit -----Original Message----- From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:53 PM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; DStanley@arubanetworks.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryption at WTP/AC Hi Dorothy, I'm repeating some early commentary on this topic below. For those who don't want to read through it, the short summary is this: centralized encryption support has been a part of the capwap effort since very=20 early on. The push to remove it has been primarily sponsored by one person, and most other folks have stayed out of the fray. Central encryption provides clear value, and no valid arguments for its removal have been presented here. This issue should be closed, and the existing text should remain. Centralized encryption is not security-neutral - it provides a unique set of security properties that are useful. Before explaining further, here are some pictures, along with some descriptive text: KEY --- # - 802.11 link security boundary % - capwap security boundary Case 1: 802.11 link security terminates at the WTP =20 ##################### # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% # +------+ +#--%-+ CAPWAP +----+ % # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D| AC | % # +------+ +#--%-+ +----+ % # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ##################### =20 This is the situation when you en/decrypt 802.11 traffic at the WTP. In this case, the client and WTP are within the 802.11 link security boundary. Of course, this picture does not include key establishment, because during that phase, the security boundary is more like the one below, and also, the AAA server (not pictured) is involved. Also, one might choose to include the AC in the 802.11 link security boundary pictured above (even though it doesn't participate in the crypto ops) because it is privy to the 802.11 keying material, but I'm leaving this out because it simplifies the ascii drawing, and will add nothing material to the discussion below. Case 2: 802.11 link security terminates at the AC =20 =20 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % +-----+ % /-----------------%--| WTP | % | % +--++-+ % | % ||capwap % | % || % | % +---++--+ % | % | | % | %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ##############|############################### # +------+ | | AC | # # |client|----/ 802.11 | | # # +------+ +-------+ # ############################################## =20 Here is the case when you en/decrypt 802.11 at the AC. Note that the=20 WTP is not within the 802.11 link security boundary. It is "out of the loop", so to speak, being little more than a transport provider. Also note that the capwap security boundary is the same as for case 1 - no change. Now, let's get to the questions about whether this is useful or not. As noted above, in case 2, the WTP is simply a transport provider. That means that if the WTP were somehow compromised, unless the attacker=20 also compromised one or more of the other security mechanisms as well (802.1x, the AC's credential, etc), he could do little more than effect a DoS attack. In case 1, various methods of WTP compromise could give an attacker access to the data as it is unencrypted and then re-encrypted. In this case, the attacker gets access to the cleartext data via relatively low-cost methods (compared to breaking .11 crypto), essentially attacking the weakest link. In case 2, WTP's can be deployed in hostile territory, and if the attacker can't break the 802.11 crypto, he can't have the same security impact (aside from DoS, which he can have in any event). It's like running 802.11 security over the air - he has to break the crypto. No matter how completely the attacker might compromise a WTP, all he will see is encrypted data. This is good! Of course, there is additional value to the centralized encryption model, as Dorothy Stanley pointed out: architectural flexibility, enabling CAPWAP compliant solutions to centralize the 802.11i crypto functions in the AC if they wish, reducing dependencies on WTP capabilities (e.g. legacy hardware that only supports TKIP), potentially support a broader range of existing and future applications - even when the primary motivation is not 'to secure the WTP-AC data connection'". Some vendors chose this approach to MAC splitting while others chose encryption at the WTP. Interoperability entails supporting both approaches. Scott -----Original Message----- >From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com >Sent: Mar 1, 2007 2:33 PM >To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com, capwap@frascone.com >Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com >Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at WTP/AC > >Dear CAPWAP WG- > >We've had only 2 comments on the consensus call for issue 138, and the=20 >consensus check will end today. This is not enough response to claim=20 >consesus and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of=20 >March 5th. > >Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to=20 >weigh in on consensus? Should 138 be removed from the issue DB due to=20 >lack of interest? > >This issue will have to remain open and will not be included in the=20 >next draft that is targeted for IEEE review. > >Best Regards, >Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. > > > >> _____________________________________________=20 >> From: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) =20 >> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM >> To: capwap@frascone.com >> Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert >> Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) >> Subject: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at >> WTP/AC >>=20 >> Dear CAPWAP WG, >> During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we=20 >> discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC,=20 >> but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed=20 at >> length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. >> The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one=20 >> of the following proposals that have the most WG support: >> 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST=20 support >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11=20 >> encryption/decryption at the AC. >> The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. >> -OR- >> 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must=20 >> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY=20 >> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. >> Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11=20 >> encryption/decryption at the AC. >> As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the=20 >> Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. >> Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by >> March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a >> short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF=20 68 >> is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next >> week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for=20 >> review in IEEE. >> Best Regards, >> Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. >>=20 =20 --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-2126133220-1172801370=:48976 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Scott,

I don't think Option 2&= nbsp; in any way prevents centralized encryption from being deployed. It just doesn't mandate that the WTP vendo= rs MUST support both modes. An AC = doing centralized encryption can still interoperate with WTPs that implement this option.

As for your di= scussion on how secure centralized encryption is, let me point out that with encryption at the WTP and the DTLS on the= data channel, one will have to break into th= e WTP and intercept the data between the 802.= 11i decryption and the DTLS encryption to compromise the security. On the other hand with centralized encryption,the entire 802.11 header and the = CAPWAP header is unauthenticated and in the clear making it possible to launch several kinds of spoofing attacks.

Again, like I said, the issue is not to debate which mode of oper= ation - encryption at the WTP or encryption a= t the AC - is better. The question is whether= WTPs should be forced to support both modes, or if supporting encryption at the AC as an option is good enough. I would argue that the latter is sufficient.

Regards,

Abhijit

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007= 5:53 PM
To: Dorothy.G= ellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; DStanley@arub= anetworks.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryption at WTP/AC

Hi Dorothy,

I'm repea= ting some early commentary on this topic below. For those who
don't wa= nt to read through it, the short summary is this: centralized
encrypti= on support has been a part of the capwap effort since very
early
o= n. The push to remove it has been primarily sponsored by one person,
and most other folks have stayed out of the fray. Cent= ral encryption
provides clear value, and no valid arguments for its re= moval have been
presented here. This issue should be closed, and the e= xisting text
should remain.

Centralized encryption is not secur= ity-neutral - it provides a unique
set of security properties that are= useful. Before explaining further,
here are some pictures, along with= some descriptive text:

KEY
---
   # - 802.11 link= security boundary

   % - capwap security boundary

Case 1: 802.11 link security terminates at the WTP
&nb= sp;
   #####################
   #  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   # = +------+         +#--%-+ &nb= sp; CAPWAP +----+ %
   # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D| AC | %
   # +------+     = ;    +#--%-+       &nbs= p;   +----+ %
   #    &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   ###############= ######

This is the situation when you en/decrypt 802.11= traffic at the WTP. In
this case, the client and WTP are within the 8= 02.11 link security
boundary. Of course, this picture does not include= key establishment,
because during that phase, the security boundary i= s more like the one
below, and also, the AAA server (not pictured) is = involved. Also, one
might choose to include the AC in the 802.11 link = security boundary
pictured above (even though it doesn't participate i= n the crypto ops)
because it is privy to the 802.11 keying material, but I'm leaving this
out because it simplifies the a= scii drawing, and will add nothing
material to the discussion below.

Case 2: 802.11 link security terminates at the AC
&nbs= p;            = ;
     &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;
    = ;            =             &= nbsp;      %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
        &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ; % +-----+      %
  &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; /-----------------%--| WTP |      %            =      |        = ;         % +--++-+ &n= bsp;    %
       &nb= sp;         |   &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; %     ||capwap %
           &= nbsp;     |       =           %   = ; ||        %
  &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; |          &nb= sp;      % +---++--+     %            = ;     |       &nbs= p;         % |   &= nbsp;   |     %
    =              = |            =      %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   ##############|#######################= ########
   # +------+    |   =             &= nbsp;   |   AC | #
   # |cli= ent|----/   802.11       &nb= sp; |       | #
  = # +------+          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; +-------+ #
   ###################################= ###########
         &nbs= p;

Here is = the case when you en/decrypt 802.11 at the AC. Note that the
WTP
i= s not within the 802.11 link security boundary. It is "out of the
loop= ", so to speak, being little more than a transport provider. Also
note that the capwap security boundary is = the same as for case 1 - no
change.

Now, let's get to the quest= ions about whether this is useful or not. As
noted above, in case 2, t= he WTP is simply a transport provider. That
means that if the WTP were= somehow compromised, unless the attacker
also
compromised one or = more of the other security mechanisms as well
(802.1x, the AC's creden= tial, etc), he could do little more than effect
a DoS attack.

I= n case 1, various methods of WTP compromise could give an attacker
acc= ess to the data as it is unencrypted and then re-encrypted. In this
ca= se, the attacker gets access to the cleartext data via relatively
low-= cost methods (compared to breaking .11 crypto), essentially
attacking = the weakest link.

In case 2, WTP's can be deployed in hostile terr= itory, and if the
attacker can't break the 802.11 crypto, he can't hav= e the same security
impact (aside from DoS, which he can have in any event). It's like
running 802.11 s= ecurity over the air - he has to break the crypto. No
matter how compl= etely the attacker might compromise a WTP, all he will
see is encrypte= d data. This is good!

Of course, there is additional value to the = centralized encryption
model, as Dorothy Stanley pointed out: architec= tural flexibility,
enabling CAPWAP compliant solutions to centralize t= he 802.11i crypto
functions in the AC if they wish, reducing dependenc= ies on WTP
capabilities (e.g. legacy hardware that only supports TKIP)= ,
potentially support a broader range of existing and future applicati= ons
- even when the primary motivation is not 'to secure the WTP-AC da= ta
connection'". Some vendors chose this approach to MAC splitting whi= le
others chose encryption at the WTP. Interoperability entails suppor= ting
both approaches.

Scott

-----Original Message---= --
>From: Dorothy= .Gellert@nokia.com
>Sent: Mar 1, 2007 2:33 PM
>To: Dorot= hy.Gellert@nokia.com, capwap@frascone.com
>Cc: margaret@t= hingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com
>Subject: Re:= [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:
encryption/decryption at WTP/= AC
>
>Dear CAPWAP WG-
>
>We've had only 2 comment= s on the consensus call for issue 138, and the
>consensus check wi= ll end today. This is not enough response to claim
>consesus= and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of
>March= 5th.
>
>Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to
>weigh in on consensus? Shou= ld 138 be removed from the issue DB due to
>lack of interest?
&= gt;
>This issue will have to remain open and will not be included i= n the
>next draft that is targeted for IEEE review.
>
>= ;Best Regards,
>Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.
>
>
>=
>> _____________________________________________
>> F= rom: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView)
>> Sent: Friday,= February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
>> To: capwap@frascone.com
&= gt;> Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); margaret@thingmagic.com; G= ellert
>> Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView)
>> Subject: Consen= sus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at
>> WTP/AC
&= gt;>
>> Dear CAPWAP WG,
>> During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last= month, we
>> discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decrypti= on at the WTP/AC,
>> but did not achieve clear consensus. This = issue has been discussed
at

>> length since IETF 67 in <= SPAN id=3Dlw_1172800759_13 style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Sa= n Diego and on the list over the past few
months.
>> T= he chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one <= BR>>> of the following proposals that have the most WG support:
= >> 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support
>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WT= P MUST support
>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC= MUST support either
>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP = or 802.11
>> encryption/decryption at the AC.
>> The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption= at the WTP and
>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
&g= t;> -OR-
>> 2) To provide system component interoperability, = the WTP and AC must
>> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY
>> support 802.11 encryption/decryp= tion at the AC.
>> Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 8= 02.11
>> encryption/decryption at the AC.
>> As there = has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the
>> Da= ta Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
>> Please submit = your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list
by
>> M= arch 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.   This is = a
>> short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts f= or IETF
68
>> is March 5th.   If we cannot agree t= o come to consensus in the next
>> week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft ta= rgeted for
>> review in IEEE.
>> Best Regards,
>= > Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.
>>

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a = flick in no time
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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C75C4C.EED14330-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 22:11:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMyBM-00023x-Pd for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:11:44 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMyBK-0003VZ-1e for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:11:43 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227D039E21D for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130D04A452B for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9A94317CD for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.arubanetworks.com (mail.arubanetworks.com [216.31.249.253]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 65DC54317AE for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com ([10.1.1.17]) by mail.arubanetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:19 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:11:18 -0800 Message-ID: <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093054AA8A2@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <17B8C6DE4E228348B4939BDA6B05A9DC02C8DDBF@xmb-sjc-237.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLA= References: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBACF8211@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> <17B8C6DE4E228348B4939BDA6B05A9DC02C8DDBF@xmb-sjc-237.amer.cisco.com> From: "Merwyn Andrade" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 03:11:19.0844 (UTC) FILETIME=[72FE2E40:01C75C78] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One= additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centra= lized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the en= d-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specifi= ed in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modi= fy them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal custome= rs below. = The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 wh= ich opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The She= lf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, syst= ems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channe= l and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall L= evel 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying info= rmation are used in public unprotected environments, then those products mu= st meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS= validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-= to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-en= d extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WL= ANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a co= mpliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS a= pproved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundar= y). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue = waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by= requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed enc= ryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. = In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the = FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are= carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11= i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with cent= ralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundar= ies for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not havi= ng to redo one's compliance. It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be= possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and m= eet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802= .11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting = worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to = the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to = compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WT= Ps as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via th= e need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as p= er 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying informat= ion are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must m= eet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user spa= ce and not locked in a closet). = I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes sh= ould be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the lev= el of security and the markets they want to pursue. = This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist f= or DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption t= o the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve= their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors= and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an= important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for fe= deral customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed = towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. Merv Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] = Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWT= P/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, = During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issu= e 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve cl= ear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San= Diego and on the list over the past few months. = The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus on one of th= e following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encrypt= ion/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decr= yption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. = -OR- = 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must suppor= t 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the AC. = Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at= the AC. = As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Pla= ne, this portion of issue 138 is closed. = Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by Marc= h 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.=A0=A0 This is a short con= sensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.= =A0=A0 If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue= will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=A0 = Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. = _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 22:46:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMyib-0005d6-3Z for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:46:05 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMyiZ-0006ZN-CJ for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:46:05 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5FA4318CE for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9904A41D8 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C864318A9 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-ext11.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [131.228.20.170]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E6C4318A5 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l223fPP6011480; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:41:49 +0200 Received: from daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.111]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:45:33 +0200 Received: from daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.24]) by daebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:45:31 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:45:33 -0600 Message-ID: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A5C@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <481899.1172800360524.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdcbX+fZoc9zV6YREGNrc/bf1IwlgADhmnw References: <481899.1172800360524.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 03:45:31.0427 (UTC) FILETIME=[39D4E730:01C75C7D] X-eXpurgate-Category: 1/0 X-eXpurgate-ID: 149371::070302054149-188B1BB0-55EAED27/0-0/0-1 X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a4a24b484706be629f915bfb1a3e4771 Hi Scott, I can see some the points raised for centralized encryption and agree we need to support this case. But it seems to me, the most interoperable case is the one where the AC may or may not support encryption, Option 2. If we have option 2, and AC encryption (centralized) is a MAY, then all your points will still be covered, and in addition we ensure greater backward compatability with 802.11 chipsets, for environments with existing hardware, thus gaining better interoperability and CAPWAP compliance. Its important to preserve the case where an enterprise may have a mix of 802.11 equipment. I believe supporting a wider base will make CAPWAP a greater market success, especially in an initial version. -DorothyG > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:53 PM > To: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; DStanley@arubanetworks.com > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: > encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC > > Hi Dorothy, > > I'm repeating some early commentary on this topic below. For > those who don't want to read through it, the short summary is > this: centralized encryption support has been a part of the > capwap effort since very early on. The push to remove it has > been primarily sponsored by one person, and most other folks > have stayed out of the fray. Central encryption provides > clear value, and no valid arguments for its removal have been > presented here. This issue should be closed, and the existing > text should remain. > > Centralized encryption is not security-neutral - it provides > a unique set of security properties that are useful. Before > explaining further, here are some pictures, along with some > descriptive text: > > KEY > --- > # - 802.11 link security boundary > > % - capwap security boundary > > > > Case 1: 802.11 link security terminates at the WTP > > ##################### > # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > # +------+ +#--%-+ CAPWAP +----+ % > # |client|---------| WTP |===========| AC | % > # +------+ +#--%-+ +----+ % > # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > ##################### > > > This is the situation when you en/decrypt 802.11 traffic at > the WTP. In this case, the client and WTP are within the > 802.11 link security boundary. Of course, this picture does > not include key establishment, because during that phase, the > security boundary is more like the one below, and also, the > AAA server (not pictured) is involved. Also, one might choose > to include the AC in the 802.11 link security boundary > pictured above (even though it doesn't participate in the > crypto ops) because it is privy to the 802.11 keying > material, but I'm leaving this out because it simplifies the > ascii drawing, and will add nothing material to the discussion below. > > > Case 2: 802.11 link security terminates at the AC > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > % +-----+ % > /-----------------%--| WTP | % > | % +--++-+ % > | % ||capwap % > | % || % > | % +---++--+ % > | % | | % > | %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > ##############|############################### > # +------+ | | AC | # > # |client|----/ 802.11 | | # > # +------+ +-------+ # > ############################################## > > > Here is the case when you en/decrypt 802.11 at the AC. Note > that the WTP is not within the 802.11 link security boundary. > It is "out of the loop", so to speak, being little more than > a transport provider. Also note that the capwap security > boundary is the same as for case 1 - no change. > > Now, let's get to the questions about whether this is useful > or not. As noted above, in case 2, the WTP is simply a > transport provider. That means that if the WTP were somehow > compromised, unless the attacker also compromised one or more > of the other security mechanisms as well (802.1x, the AC's > credential, etc), he could do little more than effect a DoS attack. > > In case 1, various methods of WTP compromise could give an > attacker access to the data as it is unencrypted and then > re-encrypted. In this case, the attacker gets access to the > cleartext data via relatively low-cost methods (compared to > breaking .11 crypto), essentially attacking the weakest link. > > In case 2, WTP's can be deployed in hostile territory, and if > the attacker can't break the 802.11 crypto, he can't have the > same security impact (aside from DoS, which he can have in > any event). It's like running 802.11 security over the air - > he has to break the crypto. No matter how completely the > attacker might compromise a WTP, all he will see is encrypted > data. This is good! > > Of course, there is additional value to the centralized > encryption model, as Dorothy Stanley pointed out: > architectural flexibility, enabling CAPWAP compliant > solutions to centralize the 802.11i crypto functions in the > AC if they wish, reducing dependencies on WTP capabilities > (e.g. legacy hardware that only supports TKIP), potentially > support a broader range of existing and future applications > - even when the primary motivation is not 'to secure the > WTP-AC data connection'". Some vendors chose this approach > to MAC splitting while others chose encryption at the WTP. > Interoperability entails supporting both approaches. > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com > >Sent: Mar 1, 2007 2:33 PM > >To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com, capwap@frascone.com > >Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com > >Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: > encryption/decryption at WTP/AC > > > >Dear CAPWAP WG- > > > >We've had only 2 comments on the consensus call for issue > 138, and the > >consensus check will end today. This is not enough response > to claim > >consesus and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of > >March 5th. > > > >Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to > >weigh in on consensus? Should 138 be removed from the issue > DB due to > >lack of interest? > > > >This issue will have to remain open and will not be included in the > >next draft that is targeted for IEEE review. > > > >Best Regards, > >Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. > > > > > > > >> _____________________________________________ > >> From: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) > >> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM > >> To: capwap@frascone.com > >> Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); > margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert > >> Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) > >> Subject: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at > >> WTP/AC > >> > >> Dear CAPWAP WG, > >> During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we > >> discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, > >> but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been > discussed at > >> length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the > past few months. > >> The chairs would like to close this issue with WG > consensus on one > >> of the following proposals that have the most WG support: > >> 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP > MUST support > >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support > >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either > >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 > >> encryption/decryption at the AC. > >> The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and > >> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > >> -OR- > >> 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP > and AC must > >> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP > and AC MAY > >> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > >> Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 > >> encryption/decryption at the AC. > >> As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the > >> Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. > >> Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to > the WG list by > >> March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a > >> short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts > for IETF 68 > >> is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next > >> week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for > >> review in IEEE. > >> Best Regards, > >> Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 23:18:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzDt-0007Fz-1d for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:18:25 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzDn-0000xC-Tg for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:18:25 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5AF144800B for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2F64A41D8 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEF739DE91 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898DC398C73 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.79]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Mar 2007 20:17:57 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,239,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="363676494:sNHT102039424" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-5.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l224HubS002684; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l224HunF023755; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzA== From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: "Merwyn Andrade" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 04:17:56.0438 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1260760:01C75C81] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-5; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.511 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1492703415==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79bb66f827e54e9d5c5c7f1f9d645608 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1492703415== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75C81.C0FACEB8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C81.C0FACEB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an = option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model = as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they = need it will ask for it. But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS = requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS = certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. PatC -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. = One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of = centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively = meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal = market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify = existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it = means to Federal customers below.=20 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 = which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off = The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, = systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured = channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 = Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store = keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then = those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i = FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind = the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask = does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation = deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted = wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel = encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the = VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network = was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted = approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be = moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even = more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter.=20 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is = the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the = policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization = functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link = between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN = concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current = mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" = represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should = be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), = and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this = ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk = re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this = is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance = for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave = data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS = certified. A double advantage. Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs = to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation = CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on = WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This = is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which = store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, = then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are = typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet).=20 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes = should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on = the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =20 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto = assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i = encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP = vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant = centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these = times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior = security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow = them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an = interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. Merv Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG,=20 During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed = issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not = achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since = IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months.=20 The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus on one of = the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 -OR-=20 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the AC.=20 As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data = Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.=20 Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by = March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.=A0=A0 This is a = short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is = March 5th.=A0=A0 If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next = week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review = in IEEE.=A0=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.=20 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C81.C0FACEB8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized = encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone = deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers = that feel they need it will ask for it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS = requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS = certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:   Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard = Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:     margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:        Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. = One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of = centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively = meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal = market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify = existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it = means to Federal customers below.

The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 = which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off = The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states
"encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled = devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over = an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per = FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices = which store keying information are used in public unprotected = environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level = 2".

It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i = FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind = the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask = does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation = deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted = wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel = encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the = VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network = was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted = approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be = moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even = more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter.

In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is = the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the = policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization = functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link = between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN = concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current = mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured = channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's = compliance.

It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should = be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), = and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this = ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk = re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this = is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance = for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave = data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS = certified. A double advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs = to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation = CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on = WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This = is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices = which store keying information are used in public unprotected = environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level = 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in = a closet).

I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes = should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on = the level of security and the markets they want to pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto = assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i = encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP = vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant = centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these = times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior = security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow = them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an = interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol.

Merv

Merwyn (Merv) Andrade
CTO, Aruba Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
________________________________________
From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear CAPWAP WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed = issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not = achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since = IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months.
The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus on one of = the following proposals that have the most WG support:
1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
-OR-
2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the AC.
As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data = Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by = March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.=A0=A0 This is a = short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is = March 5th.=A0=A0 If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next = week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review = in IEEE.=A0
Best Regards,
Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C81.C0FACEB8-- --===============1492703415== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1492703415==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 23:24:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzK0-0005JZ-6s for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:24:44 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzJz-0001KM-6O for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:24:44 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4DD14490D0 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2564F4A4526 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC2C144875E for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:24:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-ext11.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [131.228.20.170]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167C514483A8 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l224KNcw008962; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:20:27 +0200 Received: from daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.112]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:24:15 +0200 Received: from daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.24]) by daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:24:12 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:24:18 -0600 Message-ID: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AA References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> From: To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 04:24:12.0475 (UTC) FILETIME=[A148B8B0:01C75C82] X-eXpurgate-Category: 1/0 X-eXpurgate-ID: 149371::070302062027-06E23BB0-28CD2B14/1621489944-0/0-1 X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1926785589==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: da36eda0a3266ed30a56c496b15b76c7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1926785589== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75C82.A11E137E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C82.A11E137E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 =09 To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C82.A11E137E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and = their=20 applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f = meeting=20 and consider adding text to the security section as a separate=20 issue.

BR,

DorothyG

From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20 [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 = 8:18=20 PM
To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView);=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized = encryption=20 as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems = this model=20 as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they = need it=20 will ask for it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this is a=20 misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have = passed=20 the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the = question=20 posed by the chair.

PatC

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:  =20 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard=20 Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:    =20 = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:      &n= bsp;=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for all = the=20 reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very = important=20 point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on = WTPs)=20 clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel = requirements=20 within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the = burden to=20 FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the = directive and=20 what it means to Federal customers below.

The updated and long = awaited=20 DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate = for=20 implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology = for use=20 in the Federal market, states
"encryption for unclassified data in = transit=20 via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be = implemented=20 end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting = requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN=20 infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in = public=20 unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 = Overall=20 Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal = customers=20 that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted = tunnel=20 behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you = may ask=20 does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first = generation=20 deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted = wireless and=20 created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption = traversed=20 from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator = (the policy=20 boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. = Having to=20 pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy=20 boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs = (for=20 distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor = and a=20 non-starter.

In centralized encryption one end of the = end-to-end=20 assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and = the=20 other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key=20 management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end = assured=20 channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy=20 replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption = gear to=20 meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured = channel"=20 represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's = compliance.

It=20 has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should = be=20 possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), = and meet=20 the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the=20 fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt = 802.11i=20 into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting = worse.=20 Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform=20 only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the = AC=20 while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double=20 advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the=20 bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances = of=20 current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, = and=20 increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) = certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN = infrastructure=20 devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected=20 environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level = 2"=20 (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a=20 closet).

I am not against the distributed encryption model but = believe=20 both modes should be available for customers to make an informed = choice based=20 on the level of security and the markets they want to = pursue.

This=20 (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist = for DTLS=20 to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to = the=20 AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve = their=20 ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors = and=20 pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an = important and far superior security option that we need to preserve = for=20 federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we = proceed=20 towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP = protocol.

Merv

Merwyn=20 (Merv) Andrade
CTO, Aruba=20 = Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
___________________________________= _____
From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: = [Capwap]=20 Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC
Dear = CAPWAP=20 WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we = discussed=20 issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not = achieve=20 clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 = in San=20 Diego and on the list over the past few months.
The chairs would = like to=20 close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following = proposals=20 that have the most WG support:
1) To provide system component=20 interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the=20 WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. = The AC=20 MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the=20 AC.
-OR-
2) To provide system component interoperability, the = WTP and AC=20 must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC = MAY=20 support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 = proposals differ=20 with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there = has been=20 no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this = portion of=20 issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on this = topic=20 to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this=20 feature.   This is a short consensus call since the last = date to=20 submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.   If we cannot agree = to come=20 to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in = the draft=20 targeted for review in IEEE.
Best Regards,
Dorothy, Mani = and=20 = Margaret.
____________________________________________________________= _____
To=20 unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives:=20 http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C82.A11E137E-- --===============1926785589== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1926785589==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 01 23:57:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzpw-0007nJ-E9 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:57:44 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMzpu-0003lR-OV for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:57:44 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B13F39FB80 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695DE4A4526 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4004439C4EA for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.arubanetworks.com (mail.arubanetworks.com [216.31.249.253]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0ABFF39DE91 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com ([10.1.1.17]) by mail.arubanetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:23 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:57:21 -0800 Message-ID: <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093054AA8DA@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAPw5Q References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> From: "Merwyn Andrade" To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 04:57:23.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[43D39AB0:01C75C87] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bf422c85703d3d847fb014987125ac48 To your two points = 1) "To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as= an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model= as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need = it will ask for it." That is not correct by making it optional, you are trying to ensure = that it is not part of a CAPWAP baseline for WTP implementers. Your word-sm= ithing doesn't change that fact. As Dorothy Stanley eloquently said (and cl= early proved by Saravanan and others after lot of back and forth on the Key= Rsc 0 issue) "Option 1 WTPs support all 802.11 security guarantees, and provide = end to end station-to-AC security. = Option 2 WTPs do not support all 802.11 security guarantees." I could have just as easily argued that centralized encryption support was = mandatory and distributed optional, but I didn't since by keeping both mode= s mandatory in, we let a baseline have sufficient functionality to meet bot= h interoperability and markets with differing security needs. = 2) Nice try but no misrepresentation. The end-to-end directive is clear abo= ut FIPS certifications and the mandate for End-to-End-Assured channels. End= -to-End is to a policy boundary, if you want to convince your customers to = buy legacy FIPS approved WTP gear with additional wired side protection har= dware or possibly new WTPs with bulk DTLS encryption and still more termina= tion hardware, to meet "the encryption of unclassified data in transit" req= uirement good for your bottom line and bad for their budgets. Anyone in the= FIPS business knows that just because a WTP passed FIPS validation doesn't= mean the cryptographic boundaries you drew around it (to get it certified)= met the end-to-end assured channel needs. = Merv Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] = Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionat= WTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option,= so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessa= ry, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask= for it. But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requ= irement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certific= ation. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. PatC =A0-----Original Message----- From: =A0 Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent:=A0=A0 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To:=A0=A0=A0=A0 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc:=A0=A0=A0=A0 margaret@thingmagic.com Subject:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:en= cryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One= additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centra= lized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the en= d-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specifi= ed in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modi= fy them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal custome= rs below. The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 wh= ich opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The She= lf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, syst= ems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channe= l and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall L= evel 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying info= rmation are used in public unprotected environments, then those products mu= st meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS= validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-= to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-en= d extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WL= ANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a co= mpliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS a= pproved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundar= y). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue = waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by= requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed enc= ryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the = FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are= carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11= i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with cent= ralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundar= ies for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not havi= ng to redo one's compliance. It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be= possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and m= eet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802= .11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting = worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to = the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to = compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WT= Ps as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via th= e need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as p= er 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying informat= ion are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must m= eet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user spa= ce and not locked in a closet). I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes sh= ould be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the lev= el of security and the markets they want to pursue. This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist f= or DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption t= o the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve= their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors= and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an= important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for fe= deral customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed = towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. Merv Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWT= P/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issu= e 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve cl= ear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San= Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus on one of th= e following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encrypt= ion/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decr= yption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must suppor= t 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at= the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Pla= ne, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by Marc= h 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.=A0=A0 This is a short con= sensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.= =A0=A0 If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue= will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=A0 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 01:39:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1QW-0004ow-VW for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:39:36 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1QS-0007iD-2b for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:39:36 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A5C3A573C for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC534A41D8 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35F939EFB7 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BD33A447B for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ind-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.104.140.57]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Mar 2007 22:39:10 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,239,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="363693812:sNHT99047120" Received: from india-core-1.cisco.com (india-core-1.cisco.com [64.104.129.221]) by ind-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l226d9Ms011043; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:09:09 +0530 Received: from xbh-blr-412.apac.cisco.com (xbh-blr-412.cisco.com [64.104.140.149]) by india-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l226d38V007138; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:39:03 GMT Received: from xmb-blr-416.apac.cisco.com ([64.104.140.145]) by xbh-blr-412.apac.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:09:02 +0530 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:09:00 +0530 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83751@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEmxpIgABdSaAA= From: "Rohit Suri (rsuri)" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 06:39:02.0228 (UTC) FILETIME=[77271140:01C75C95] Authentication-Results: ind-dkim-1; header.From=rsuri@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/inddkim1002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.459 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0762039173==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8068004c042dabd7f1301bcc80e039df This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0762039173== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75C95.76EE9911" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C95.76EE9911 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I support option 2, as it is the simplest path for WTP interoperability. Currently all WTP chipsets support option 2, while support for option 1 is not clear. =20 Regards Rohit ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:34 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; DStanley@arubanetworks.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG-=20 We've had only 2 comments on the consensus call for issue 138, and the consensus check will end today. This is not enough response to claim consesus and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of March 5th. =20 Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to weigh in on consensus? Should 138 be removed from the issue DB due to lack of interest? This issue will have to remain open and will not be included in the next draft that is targeted for IEEE review.=20 Best Regards,=20 Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.=20 _____________________________________________=20 From: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) =20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM=20 To: capwap@frascone.com=20 Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView)=20 Subject: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at WTP/AC=20 Dear CAPWAP WG,=20 During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months.=20 The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 -OR-=20 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.=20 Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE. =20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C95.76EE9911 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Consensus check for Issue 138: = encryption/decryption at WTP/AC

I support option 2, as it is = the simplest path for WTP interoperability. = ;Currently all WTP chipsets support option = 2, while support for option 1 is not&n= bsp;clear.

Regards

Rohit

From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com=20 [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007=20 11:34 AM
To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com;=20 DStanley@arubanetworks.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus = check for=20 Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC

Dear CAPWAP WG- =

We've had only 2 comments = on the=20 consensus call for issue 138, and the consensus check will end = today. This=20 is not enough response to claim consesus and close the issue before the=20 upcomning draft deadline of March 5th.

Is there some confusion = on this issue=20 that the group doesn't want to weigh in on consensus? Should 138 = be=20 removed from the issue DB due to lack of interest?

This issue will have to = remain open and=20 will not be included in the next draft that is targeted for IEEE = review.=20

Best Regards, =
Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =

_____________________________________________=20
From: = Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) =20
Sent:   Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM =
To:     capwap@frascone.com
Cc:     ext=20 Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert Dorothy=20 (Nokia-SIR/MtView)
Subject:        = Consensus check for Issue 138: = encryption/decryption at=20 WTP/AC

Dear CAPWAP WG, =
During the CAPWAP Interim = meeting in San Jose=20 last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at = the=20 WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been = discussed at=20 length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few = months.=20

The chairs would like = to close this=20 issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that = have the=20 most WG support:

1) To provide system = component=20 interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the=20 WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. = The AC=20 MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.

The AC MAY support both = 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the=20 AC.
-OR- =
2) To provide system component=20 interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 = encryption/decryption at=20 the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the AC.=20

Note the 2 proposals = differ with=20 support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there has been no objections to the = optional use of=20 DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. =
Please submit your choice and = opinions on this=20 topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this=20 feature. This is a short consensus call since the last = date to=20 submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree = to come=20 to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in = the draft=20 targeted for review in IEEE.

Best = Regards,
Dorothy, Mani and=20 Margaret.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75C95.76EE9911-- --===============0762039173== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0762039173==-- From Tiandubois@1consumer.com Fri Mar 02 01:53:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1eI-0000a1-FL for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:53:50 -0500 Received: from auh-b12826.alshamil.net.ae ([83.110.19.32] helo=ig890d2o.emirates.net.ae) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1e6-0000hm-6t for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:53:50 -0500 Received: from Tiandubois@1consumer.com ( [116.181.7.100]) Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:53:14 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <76CB3BE7.000004.00353@> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:52:49 +0400 (GMT) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_1GK9YAN8W2NTZZPBH890" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5252670) From: "Tian dubois" X-FID: B433CDFE-B71C-42C2-A5C1-D34C076A9851 X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: will forever X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bbd38a02501ad66b463837bac8d7a61d --------------Boundary-00=_1GK9YAN8W2NTZZPBH890 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_1GK9OVV8W2NTZZPBH890" --------------Boundary-00=_1GK9OVV8W2NTZZPBH890 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Casting spells us all latest role bewitching got.=0D Good reason anyone who saw or.=0D Tuna celebpic vip glamour hotrag, arkadia ragzines la?=0D Mark whalberg carreys hope, brad doesnt too jealous.=0D Pmthat sounds heard pmwell pmoh.=0D Seen gimme shelter eventually resumed.=0D Cocaine possession ounces charged importing.=0D Develop, inside promoting social, awareness.=0D Starred starship troopers james bond flick world enough.=0D Casting spells us all latest role bewitching got.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_1GK9OVV8W2NTZZPBH890 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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ls9YBC4yLCepeW4pgHQ4l+pll0h1PZxJIXvZl7KpDnZxjLJJcp45m+QRmbzJmP7wT8LXIZurppuC iJux6QmhmZxyERelaZopKUuz5JLEuZokJ4iBAAA7 --------------Boundary-00=_1GK9YAN8W2NTZZPBH890-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 04:50:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN4Op-00088p-Lh for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:50:03 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN4Oi-0003Qy-Ri for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:50:03 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3E339EFB7 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8EC4A41D8 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0718343089B for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBAD430887 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 99EF320CF5; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:49:31 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-aa1bfbb000004e66-dc-45e7f32bbdee Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.124]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 7B82020C7F; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:49:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw114.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.5]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:49:31 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:49:29 +0100 Message-ID: <286522B2D8E5C0489CCEFE308155F71CD2C508@esealmw114.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBACF8211@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgFEwmWg From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bo_Kvarnstr=F6m_=28LI/EAB=29?= To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 09:49:31.0232 (UTC) FILETIME=[135EAE00:01C75CB0] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1590935075==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9af087f15dbdd4c64ae6bbcdbc5b1d44 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1590935075== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75CB0.12F7C5B1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CB0.12F7C5B1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support option 1.=20 The design impact on the WTP seems feasible and I do believe that this = is the only way to ensure full interoperability between WTPs and ACs.=20 =20 Best Regards Bo Kvarnstrom ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: den 23 februari 2007 23:46 To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG,=20 During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed = issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not = achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since = IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months.=20 The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of = the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 -OR-=20 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.=20 Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the AC.=20 As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data = Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.=20 Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by = March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short = consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March = 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this = issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE. =20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CB0.12F7C5B1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = at WTP/AC

I=20 support option 1.

The design impact on the WTP seems = feasible=20 and I do believe that this is the only way to ensure full = interoperability=20 between WTPs and ACs.

Best=20 Regards

Bo=20 Kvarnstrom

From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com=20 [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]
Sent: den 23 februari 2007 = 23:46
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com;=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check = for Issue=20 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC

Dear CAPWAP WG, =
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting = in San Jose=20 last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at = the=20 WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been = discussed at=20 length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few = months.=20

The chairs would like to = close this=20 issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that = have the=20 most WG support:

1) To provide system = component=20 interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the WTP,=20 and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC = MUST=20 support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.

The AC MAY support both = 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC.
-OR- =
2) To provide system component = interoperability,=20 the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The = WTP and=20 AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.

Note the 2 proposals = differ with=20 support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there has been no objections to the optional = use of DTLS=20 in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and = opinions on this=20 topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this=20 feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date = to=20 submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree = to come=20 to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the = draft=20 targeted for review in IEEE.

Best Regards,
Dorothy, = Mani and=20 Margaret.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CB0.12F7C5B1-- --===============1590935075== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1590935075==-- From cryobkpixak@highglide.co.uk Fri Mar 02 05:13:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN4lS-0000Te-C4; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 05:13:26 -0500 Received: from [124.129.169.132] (helo=highglide.co.uk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN4lN-00065i-5Q; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 05:13:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1a8701c75c66$569121c0$4b840c53@cryobkpixak> Reply-To: "Gregory" From: "Gregory" To: "Delmy" Cc: "Dung Riley" , "Shirley Graham" , "Rosie Reynolds" , "Rossie" , "Staci Hudson" , "Ralph" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Francesca" , "Margert" Subject: What Time U Going Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:01:41 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_BA6_0DE6_BB658D0B.9A356E41" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.02.2022 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 442d80051e0361a34f3560325c4a7092 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_BA6_0DE6_BB658D0B.9A356E41 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_2E4_AF21_DFA45BDC.92222011" ------=_NextPart_2E4_AF21_DFA45BDC.92222011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thumb copy "How did strike peace Danglars usually write?" 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thumb copy "How did strike peace Danglars usually write?"  = "What! drawer For the harmony whip emperor's arm return?--the emper= or is n     obnoxious different judge "Oh, he ha= s been taken to horse Fenestrelles, to Pigneropunch modern "He abdicated = fallen at Fontainebleau suggest in 1814, and was se
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"And provide root damage you say that Dants has gone religion to the Cata= lans?"And the corridor?"

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C75CD8.FBE10D30-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 07:49:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7C7-0008S2-1m for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:49:07 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7C4-00033b-M5 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:49:07 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9333A5419 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9ED4A41D8 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ABE39804F for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5451A398095 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-7.cisco.com ([171.68.10.88]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2007 04:48:38 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,241,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="395853172:sNHT125251960" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-7.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l22Cmbnp025208; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:37 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l22CmXho022229; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:32 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:48:31 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DA= References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 12:48:32.0841 (UTC) FILETIME=[15DE2390:01C75CC9] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-7; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.877 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1829802329==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 559439f19b20fd64c5cd872aef84c6f3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1829802329== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75CC9.159E06DC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CC9.159E06DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dorothy,=20 =20 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =20 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. =20 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that market. =20 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 =09 I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 =09 To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CC9.159E06DC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Dorothy,

I do=20 not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful = at the=20 face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the = requirements,=20 and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to = interpretation. The=20 DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would = simply be=20 each other's interpretation of US Gov't = requirements.

The=20 reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption = at the=20 WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" = at http://csrc.nist.g= ov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html.=20 The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://= csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf.

Once=20 more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not = excluded=20 from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I = would=20 note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very = complex and=20 expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one = "FIPS=20 validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional = feature=20 that would be implemented by vendors that target that=20 market.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking = Business=20 Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com=20 [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, March = 01, 2007=20 8:24 PM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); = mandrade@arubanetworks.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:=20 RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements = and their=20 applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the = f2f=20 meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate = issue.

BR,

DorothyG

From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) = [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:18=20 PM
To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); = capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized = encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If = someone=20 deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and = customers that=20 feel they need it will ask for it.

But to address Mervyn's = point,=20 this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption = systems=20 have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's = irrelevant to=20 the question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:  =20 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard=20 Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:    =20 = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:      &n= bsp;=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for all = the=20 reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very = important=20 point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support = on WTPs)=20 clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel=20 requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and = reduces=20 the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More = details on=20 the directive and what it means to Federal customers = below.

The=20 updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 = which=20 opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The = Shelf)=20 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, = states
"encryption for=20 unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and=20 technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel = and be=20 validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall = Level 1 at=20 a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying = information are=20 used in public unprotected environments, then those products must = meet FIPS=20 140-2 Overall Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget = constrained=20 Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not = handle the=20 un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end=20 directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior = to=20 WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed = deployment of L3=20 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment = where=20 assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients = all the=20 way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and = wired=20 network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already = granted=20 approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that = they be=20 moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an = even more=20 painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter.

In = centralized=20 encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS = 140-2=20 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is=20 where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are = carried out.=20 The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i = station and=20 the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized = 802.11i=20 encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for=20 "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not = having to=20 redo one's compliance.

It has been argued that with DTLS = support for=20 the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in=20 distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured = channel.=20 While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do = not=20 have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data = channel and=20 with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized = encryption=20 provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only = control-channel=20 encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not = needing them=20 to be FIPS certified. A double advantage.

Mandating DTLS = crypto=20 assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in = Federal),=20 both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as = candidates in=20 the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a=20 FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per = 8100.2=20 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information = are=20 used in public unprotected environments, then those products must = meet FIPS=20 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space = and not=20 locked in a closet).

I am not against the distributed = encryption=20 model but believe both modes should be available for customers to = make an=20 informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they = want to=20 pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need = to add=20 crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s = offloading=20 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens = to WTP=20 vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant = centralized=20 encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of = tight war=20 budgets this is an important and far superior security option that = we need=20 to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of = COTS=20 gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP=20 protocol.

Merv

Merwyn (Merv) Andrade
CTO, Aruba=20 = Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
___________________________________= _____
From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: = [Capwap]=20 Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear CAPWAP=20 WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we=20 discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, = but did=20 not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length = since=20 IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few = months.
The chairs=20 would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the = following proposals that have the most WG support:
1) To provide = system=20 component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at = the=20 AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = WTP and=20 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
-OR-
2) To provide = system=20 component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ with = support=20 of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there has been no=20 objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this = portion of=20 issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on = this topic=20 to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this=20 feature.   This is a short consensus call since the last = date to=20 submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.   If we cannot = agree to=20 come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain = unresolved in the=20 draft targeted for review in IEEE.
Best = Regards,
Dorothy, Mani=20 and=20 = Margaret.
____________________________________________________________= _____
To=20 unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives:=20 http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CC9.159E06DC-- --===============1829802329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1829802329==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 07:58:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7L3-00038Q-ET for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:58:21 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7L1-0004IE-MI for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:58:21 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635493A5722 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31334A41D8 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5BF3980A7 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B6A39804F for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 04:58:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.128.2] (c-24-6-207-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[24.6.207.154]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <20070302125806m1100fseqfe>; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:58:07 +0000 Message-ID: <45E81F11.9020705@hyperthought.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:56:49 -0800 From: Scott G Kelly User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061219) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com References: <481899.1172800360524.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A5C@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A5C@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests= X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, capwap@frascone.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1924de3f9fb68e58c31920136007eb1 What 802.11 chipsets don't support this functionality? Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com wrote: > Hi Scott, > > > > I can see some the points raised for centralized encryption and agree we > need to support this case. But it seems to me, the most interoperable > case is the one where the AC may or may not support encryption, Option > 2. > > If we have option 2, and AC encryption (centralized) is a MAY, then all > your points will still be covered, and in addition we ensure greater > backward compatability with 802.11 chipsets, for environments with > existing hardware, thus gaining better interoperability and CAPWAP > compliance. > > Its important to preserve the case where an enterprise may have a mix of > 802.11 equipment. I believe supporting a wider base will make CAPWAP a > greater market success, especially in an initial version. > > -DorothyG > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] >> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:53 PM >> To: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com >> Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; DStanley@arubanetworks.com >> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: >> encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC >> >> Hi Dorothy, >> >> I'm repeating some early commentary on this topic below. For >> those who don't want to read through it, the short summary is >> this: centralized encryption support has been a part of the >> capwap effort since very early on. The push to remove it has >> been primarily sponsored by one person, and most other folks >> have stayed out of the fray. Central encryption provides >> clear value, and no valid arguments for its removal have been >> presented here. This issue should be closed, and the existing >> text should remain. >> >> Centralized encryption is not security-neutral - it provides >> a unique set of security properties that are useful. Before >> explaining further, here are some pictures, along with some >> descriptive text: >> >> KEY >> --- >> # - 802.11 link security boundary >> >> % - capwap security boundary >> >> >> >> Case 1: 802.11 link security terminates at the WTP >> >> ##################### >> # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >> # +------+ +#--%-+ CAPWAP +----+ % >> # |client|---------| WTP |===========| AC | % >> # +------+ +#--%-+ +----+ % >> # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >> ##################### >> >> >> This is the situation when you en/decrypt 802.11 traffic at >> the WTP. In this case, the client and WTP are within the >> 802.11 link security boundary. Of course, this picture does >> not include key establishment, because during that phase, the >> security boundary is more like the one below, and also, the >> AAA server (not pictured) is involved. Also, one might choose >> to include the AC in the 802.11 link security boundary >> pictured above (even though it doesn't participate in the >> crypto ops) because it is privy to the 802.11 keying >> material, but I'm leaving this out because it simplifies the >> ascii drawing, and will add nothing material to the discussion below. >> >> >> Case 2: 802.11 link security terminates at the AC >> >> >> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >> % +-----+ % >> /-----------------%--| WTP | % >> | % +--++-+ % >> | % ||capwap % >> | % || % >> | % +---++--+ % >> | % | | % >> | %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >> ##############|############################### >> # +------+ | | AC | # >> # |client|----/ 802.11 | | # >> # +------+ +-------+ # >> ############################################## >> >> >> Here is the case when you en/decrypt 802.11 at the AC. Note >> that the WTP is not within the 802.11 link security boundary. >> It is "out of the loop", so to speak, being little more than >> a transport provider. Also note that the capwap security >> boundary is the same as for case 1 - no change. >> >> Now, let's get to the questions about whether this is useful >> or not. As noted above, in case 2, the WTP is simply a >> transport provider. That means that if the WTP were somehow >> compromised, unless the attacker also compromised one or more >> of the other security mechanisms as well (802.1x, the AC's >> credential, etc), he could do little more than effect a DoS attack. >> >> In case 1, various methods of WTP compromise could give an >> attacker access to the data as it is unencrypted and then >> re-encrypted. In this case, the attacker gets access to the >> cleartext data via relatively low-cost methods (compared to >> breaking .11 crypto), essentially attacking the weakest link. >> >> In case 2, WTP's can be deployed in hostile territory, and if >> the attacker can't break the 802.11 crypto, he can't have the >> same security impact (aside from DoS, which he can have in >> any event). It's like running 802.11 security over the air - >> he has to break the crypto. No matter how completely the >> attacker might compromise a WTP, all he will see is encrypted >> data. This is good! >> >> Of course, there is additional value to the centralized >> encryption model, as Dorothy Stanley pointed out: >> architectural flexibility, enabling CAPWAP compliant >> solutions to centralize the 802.11i crypto functions in the >> AC if they wish, reducing dependencies on WTP capabilities >> (e.g. legacy hardware that only supports TKIP), potentially >> support a broader range of existing and future applications >> - even when the primary motivation is not 'to secure the >> WTP-AC data connection'". Some vendors chose this approach >> to MAC splitting while others chose encryption at the WTP. >> Interoperability entails supporting both approaches. >> >> Scott >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com >>> Sent: Mar 1, 2007 2:33 PM >>> To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com, capwap@frascone.com >>> Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, DStanley@arubanetworks.com >>> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: >> encryption/decryption at WTP/AC >>> Dear CAPWAP WG- >>> >>> We've had only 2 comments on the consensus call for issue >> 138, and the >>> consensus check will end today. This is not enough response >> to claim >>> consesus and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of >>> March 5th. >>> >>> Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to >>> weigh in on consensus? Should 138 be removed from the issue >> DB due to >>> lack of interest? >>> >>> This issue will have to remain open and will not be included in the >>> next draft that is targeted for IEEE review. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. >>> >>> >>> >>>> _____________________________________________ >>>> From: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) >>>> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM >>>> To: capwap@frascone.com >>>> Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); >> margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert >>>> Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) >>>> Subject: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at >>>> WTP/AC >>>> >>>> Dear CAPWAP WG, >>>> During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we >>>> discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, >>>> but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been >> discussed at >>>> length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the >> past few months. >>>> The chairs would like to close this issue with WG >> consensus on one >>>> of the following proposals that have the most WG support: >>>> 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP >> MUST support >>>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support >>>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either >>>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 >>>> encryption/decryption at the AC. >>>> The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and >>>> 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. >>>> -OR- >>>> 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP >> and AC must >>>> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP >> and AC MAY >>>> support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. >>>> Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 >>>> encryption/decryption at the AC. >>>> As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the >>>> Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. >>>> Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to >> the WG list by >>>> March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a >>>> short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts >> for IETF 68 >>>> is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next >>>> week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for >>>> review in IEEE. >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. >>>> >> > _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 08:14:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7ad-0003kd-Lu for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:14:27 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7Zw-0006Ra-Iv for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:13:49 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285973A570B for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F434A41D8 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126354312B9 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8434312BA for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:13:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by gateout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9C01B7A; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:13:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET [165.212.116.254] by gateout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.34P) with ESMTP id XID587LcBNNi0863Xo1; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:13:08 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.116.254 IN bhandaru@nexthop.com GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET X-USANET-MsgId: XID587LcBNNi0863Xo1 Received: from VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET ([10.116.208.141]) by GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:12:45 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:13:03 -0700 Message-ID: <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075B7C@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAAO/tYA== From: "Nehru Bhandaru" To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 13:12:45.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[77DC5280:01C75CCC] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0608108127==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5e5718a4acb1341e4ece2ac23728c219 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0608108127== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCC.851AD259" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCC.851AD259 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think everyone agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP's will have to be (software) upgraded. =20 I think disabling hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 - which would be my choice. =20 - Nehru =20 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:49 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Dorothy,=20 =20 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =20 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. =20 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that market. =20 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG =20 =09 ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCC.851AD259 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I think everyone agrees on having = the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does = not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be = migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support = only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP’s = will have to be (software) upgraded.

I think disabling hardware = encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software encryption/decryption). So, = there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 – which would be my = choice.

- = Nehru

From: Pat = Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, = 2007 7:49 AM
To: = Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Dorothy, =

I do not believe that trying to = interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. = Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The = DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be = each other's interpretation of US Gov't = requirements.

The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP = based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS = certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.g= ov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://= csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf.=

Once more, vendors that interpret = the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such = systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that = undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. = Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I = don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be = implemented by vendors that target that market.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:24 PM
To: Pat Calhoun = (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I suggest we look at the FIPs = requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption = during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a = separate issue.

BR,

DorothyG

From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:18 PM
To: Merwyn Andrade; = Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, = so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as = necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for = it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:   Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard = Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:     margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:        Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. = One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of = centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the = end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in = 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. = More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers = below.

The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 = which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The = Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states
"encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled = devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 = Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those = products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i = FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the = WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end = extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs = entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS = approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The = wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to = already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that = they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even = more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter.

In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is = the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are = carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station = and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i = encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo = one's compliance.

It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should = be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and = meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i = into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the = AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs = to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP = WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via = the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per = 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying = information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet = FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user = space and not locked in a closet).

I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes = should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level = of security and the markets they want to pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto = assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption = to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve = their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and = pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an = important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal = customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol.

Merv

Merwyn (Merv) Andrade
CTO, Aruba Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
________________________________________
From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear CAPWAP WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: = Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear = consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the = past few months.
The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one = of the following proposals that have the most WG support:
1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
-OR-
2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the AC.
As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data = Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by = March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.   This is a = short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.   If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next = week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in = IEEE.
Best Regards,
Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCC.851AD259-- --===============0608108127== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0608108127==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 08:36:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7vj-0005cv-TL for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:36:15 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN7vg-0002fI-9O for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:36:15 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDAA4313C4 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6B04A41E1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E392C431361 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA01431369 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.79]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2007 05:35:47 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,241,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="363757696:sNHT158175440" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-5.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l22DZldd022522; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:47 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l22DZiho010364; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:44 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:35:41 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBDB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075B7C@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAAO/tYAAA0ZAw References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075B7C@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: "Nehru Bhandaru" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 13:35:44.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD6C2580:01C75CCF] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-5; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0121287672==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ecc3a678f36d06d556925e6a5174d2ac This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0121287672== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCF.AD27B948" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCF.AD27B948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nehru, I'd like to ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could cause a network to migrate from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing deployments only include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors that sell centralized encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized encryption option? =20 I'm not sure that I understand how any one of the options makes the scenario you stated below more likely to occur. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 ________________________________ From: Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:13 AM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 =09 I think everyone agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP's will have to be (software) upgraded. =20 I think disabling hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 - which would be my choice. =20 - Nehru =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:49 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Dorothy,=20 =20 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =20 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. =20 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that market. =20 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG =20 =09 ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: =09 http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCF.AD27B948 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Nehru,=20 I'd like to ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could = cause a=20 network to migrate from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing = deployments only include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors = that sell=20 centralized encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized = encryption=20 option?

I'm=20 not sure that I understand how any one of the options makes = the=20 scenario you stated below more likely to occur.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking = Business=20 Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Nehru Bhandaru=20 [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 5:13=20 AM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus = check for=20 Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I think = everyone=20 agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the = WTP or AC.=20 Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an = existing=20 deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider = deployments with=20 WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to=20 centralized encryption, WTP’s will have to be (software)=20 upgraded.

I think = disabling=20 hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support = software=20 encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing = Option 1 –=20 which would be my choice.

-=20 Nehru

From: Pat=20 Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 7:49=20 AM
To:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus = check for=20 = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC
=

Dorothy,=20

I do not = believe that=20 trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to = face=20 meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and=20 the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to = interpretation. The=20 DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would = simply be=20 each other's interpretation of US Gov't=20 requirements.

The reality = is that=20 Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, = has passed=20 FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.g= ov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html.=20 The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://= csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf.=

Once more, = vendors=20 that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from=20 delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I = would note,=20 however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex = and=20 expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one = "FIPS=20 validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an = optional=20 feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that=20 market.

Pat=20 Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco=20 Systems

From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] =
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:24=20 PM
To: Pat = Calhoun=20 (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check=20 for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I suggest = we look=20 at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized = encryption=20 vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to = the=20 security section as a separate issue.  =20

BR,

DorothyG

From: ext=20 Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:18=20 PM
To: Merwyn = Andrade;=20 Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check=20 for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To=20 reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an = option,=20 so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as = necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they = need it=20 will ask for it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this is a=20 misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems = have=20 passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant = to the=20 question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:  =20 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard=20 Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:    =20 = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:      &n= bsp;=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for = all the=20 reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very=20 important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized = encryption=20 support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end = assured=20 channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in = 8100.2)=20 and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify = them. More=20 details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers=20 below.

The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive = released=20 June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of = COTS=20 (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the = Federal=20 market, states
"encryption for unclassified data in transit via = WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be = implemented=20 end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as = meeting=20 requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN=20 infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in = public=20 unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 = Overall=20 Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal = customers=20 that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the = un-encrypted=20 tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. = Why you=20 may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, = first=20 generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over = untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where=20 assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN = clients all=20 the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The = wireless and=20 wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to = already=20 granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by = requesting that=20 they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) = is an=20 even more painful and expensive endeavor and a = non-starter.

In=20 centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel = is the=20 FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of = the policy=20 boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization = functions=20 are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link = between the=20 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN = concentrator=20 with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates = and=20 policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the = cleanest=20 way of not having to redo one's compliance.

It has been = argued that=20 with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to = encrypt=20 behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the = end-to-end=20 assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact = that=20 today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i = into a=20 DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting = worse.=20 Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs = to=20 perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel = security to=20 the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double=20 advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet = the=20 bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the = chances of=20 current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal = market, and=20 increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 = (v/s 1)=20 certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN = infrastructure=20 devices which store keying information are used in public = unprotected=20 environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall = Level 2"=20 (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a=20 closet).

I am not against the distributed encryption model = but=20 believe both modes should be available for customers to make an = informed=20 choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to = pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the = need to add=20 crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s = offloading=20 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two = burdens to=20 WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP = compliant=20 centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In = these times=20 of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior = security option=20 that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to = take=20 advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable = WTP-AC=20 CAPWAP protocol.

Merv

Merwyn (Merv) Andrade
CTO,=20 Aruba=20 = Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
___________________________________= _____
From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: = [Capwap]=20 Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear=20 CAPWAP WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose = last month,=20 we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the = WTP/AC, but=20 did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at = length=20 since IETF 67 in San=20 Diego and on the list over the past few=20 months.
The chairs would like to close this issue with WG = consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG=20 support:
1) To provide system component interoperability, the = WTP MUST=20 support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST = support=20 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either = 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the=20 AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = WTP and=20 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
-OR-
2) To=20 provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support=20 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY = support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ = with=20 support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there has = been no=20 objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this = portion of=20 issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on = this=20 topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on = this=20 feature.   This is a short consensus call since the last = date to=20 submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.   If we cannot = agree to=20 come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain = unresolved in=20 the draft targeted for review in IEEE.
Best = Regards,
Dorothy,=20 Mani and=20 = Margaret.
____________________________________________________________= _____
To=20 unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please = visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives:=20 http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CCF.AD27B948-- --===============0121287672== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0121287672==-- From DevanBoswarva@andersann.dk Fri Mar 02 08:58:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8Gq-0006Ea-0k for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:58:04 -0500 Received: from [88.232.119.210] (helo=[88.232.119.210]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8GZ-0001JG-H3 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:57:59 -0500 Received: from DevanBoswarva@andersann.dk ( [168.146.151.193]) Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:42:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:41:55 +0200 (GMT) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VDV161L8WWCWKFN2QL80" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5252670) From: "Devan Boswarva" X-FID: B433CDFE-B71C-42C2-A5C1-D34C076A9851 X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: because X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6852087d2a39b5d20c975154ae1cd415 --------------Boundary-00=_VDV161L8WWCWKFN2QL80 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VDV1WNU8WWCWKFN2QL80" --------------Boundary-00=_VDV1WNU8WWCWKFN2QL80 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable String voidwait causes current wait until another invokes notify.=0D Age four years after, making debut.=0D Changes, become date fine living channeltop!=0D Jaime bergman pressly jakki degg jamie lynn jana speaker.=0D Newsletter signup free, contests message.=0D Collection determines, there references classlt extends runtime, hash code?=0D Explicit io break normally definition guarantee invoke guaranteed.=0D Your home, gt women actress of the week pages.=0D Described above places unlocks maximum cleared.=0D String voidwait causes current wait until another invokes notify.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_VDV1WNU8WWCWKFN2QL80 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:24:05 -0800 Message-ID: <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093054AA9D3@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAA+dVgA== References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> From: "Merwyn Andrade" To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 15:24:07.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[D19CFC90:01C75CDE] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 Thank you very much for bring this up. Good now we can actually compare dat= a on a FIPS validation page. You just made my point below when you highligh= t just your Controller/AC certification (693) instead of WTP (same page 373= ). = Let's draw it out for folks to really understand. 1) LWAPP Architecture ##################### 373 693 # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% # +------+ +#--%-+ LWAPP +----+ % # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D| AC | % # +------+ +#--%-+ +----+ % # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% # < encrypted data> # < --unencrypted - > # # data ##################### = <-Assured data channel-> = = Two FIPS certs (373 and 693) and a end-to-end assured channel that terminat= es at the WTP. To again point out the guidelines that proves the WTP and th= e AC must be included in the end-to-end I refer you to 8100.2, = " ..encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices ,s= ystems, and technologies " The data is in transit from a client -> WTP -> AC a WLAN system. See the point in the directive about "WLAN enabled devices, systems and tec= hnologies". It is very easy to confuse folks with FIPS certs but the 8100.2= policy and not how folks creatively interpret or add themselves to FIPS va= lidation lists is what matters. = 2) Centralized Encryption Architecture ############################################## = # 315 # # +------+ +-----+ +----+ # # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D| AC | # # +------+ +-----+ +----+ # # <------------encrypted data--------------> # = # # ############################################## = <--------Assured data channel----------------> = One FIPS cert (315) for the controller, none required for the WTP and a end= -to-end assured channel from client to the AC. The assured channel for uncl= assified data is over the entire system. No WTP FIPS cert was needed. = Go and take a look at any VPN solution and you'll see one cert for a client= and one for the concentrator. = Facts speak for themselves. = Merv = PS: I reiterate I'm not against decentralized encryption. If someone needs = that option in the market, I'll go and FIPS certify my WTPs. I think howeve= r we are talking about the CAPWAP standard and not what suits us so we need= to let the market choose from both options v/s spec-ing one out of the man= datory-to-implement list. I rest my case. Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] = Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:49 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; Merwyn Andrade; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionat= WTP/AC Dorothy, = =A0 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really usef= ul at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the = requirements, and the=A0term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to inte= rpretation. The DoD has not provided such=A0guidance, so such a discussion = would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =A0 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption= at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 44= 00" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certi= ficate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693= .pdf. =A0 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not e= xcluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option= . I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a v= ery complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does no= t make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make th= is an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target tha= t market. =A0 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =A0 ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] = Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionat= WTP/AC I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centr= alized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider add= ing text to the security section as a separate issue.=A0=A0 = =A0 BR, DorothyG ________________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] = Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionat= WTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option,= so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessa= ry, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask= for it. But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requ= irement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certific= ation. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. PatC =A0-----Original Message----- From: =A0 Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent:=A0=A0 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To:=A0=A0=A0=A0 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc:=A0=A0=A0=A0 margaret@thingmagic.com Subject:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:en= cryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One= additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centra= lized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the en= d-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specifi= ed in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modi= fy them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal custome= rs below. The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 wh= ich opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The She= lf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, syst= ems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channe= l and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall L= evel 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying info= rmation are used in public unprotected environments, then those products mu= st meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS= validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-= to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-en= d extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WL= ANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a co= mpliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS a= pproved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundar= y). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue = waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by= requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed enc= ryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the = FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are= carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11= i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with cent= ralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundar= ies for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not havi= ng to redo one's compliance. It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be= possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and m= eet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802= .11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting = worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to = the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to = compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WT= Ps as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via th= e need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as p= er 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying informat= ion are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must m= eet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user spa= ce and not locked in a closet). I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes sh= ould be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the lev= el of security and the markets they want to pursue. This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist f= or DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption t= o the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve= their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors= and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an= important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for fe= deral customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed = towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. Merv Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWT= P/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issu= e 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve cl= ear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San= Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus on one of th= e following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encrypt= ion/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decr= yption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must suppor= t 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.1= 1 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at= the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Pla= ne, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by Marc= h 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.=A0=A0 This is a short con= sensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.= =A0=A0 If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue= will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=A0 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 10:31:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN9iw-00069b-Kn for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:31:10 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN9iu-0004TR-EU for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:31:10 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5CB3A5740 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9404A41E1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D573A5709 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2D83A570C for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2007 07:30:41 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,243,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="468080080:sNHT72444776" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l22FUe6i019881; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:40 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l22FUdho003115; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:39 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:30:41 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FC17@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093054AA9D3@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAA+dVgAAB5Ifg References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093054AA9D3@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: "Merwyn Andrade" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 15:30:39.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB5571F0:01C75CDF] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.372 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 64b72a8e61417554b4b727cb14e7034d Merwyn, this is an interesting discussion, and while I disagree with some o= f your statements, I would like the bring the discussion back to the origin= al question, which is whether we should adopt option 1 or option 2. To re-i= terate, there is nothing in option 2 that disallows a customer from support= ing either of the scenarios below. The question is whether WTP vendors are = forced to support this mode of operation, for which I have provided my reas= ons on why this is problematic in my original post. I stand by those statem= ents. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems = > -----Original Message----- > From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] = > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:24 AM > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; = > capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > = > Thank you very much for bring this up. Good now we can = > actually compare data on a FIPS validation page. You just = > made my point below when you highlight just your = > Controller/AC certification (693) instead of WTP (same page 373). = > Let's draw it out for folks to really understand. > = > 1) LWAPP Architecture > ##################### 373 693 > # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > # +------+ +#--%-+ LWAPP +----+ % > # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D| AC | % > # +------+ +#--%-+ +----+ % > # # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > # < encrypted data> # < --unencrypted - > > # # data > ##################### = > <-Assured data channel-> = > = > Two FIPS certs (373 and 693) and a end-to-end assured channel = > that terminates at the WTP. To again point out the guidelines = > that proves the WTP and the AC must be included in the = > end-to-end I refer you to 8100.2, " ..encryption for = > unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices = > ,systems, and technologies " > The data is in transit from a client -> WTP -> AC a WLAN system. > See the point in the directive about "WLAN enabled devices, = > systems and technologies". It is very easy to confuse folks = > with FIPS certs but the 8100.2 policy and not how folks = > creatively interpret or add themselves to FIPS validation = > lists is what matters. = > = > = > 2) Centralized Encryption Architecture > ############################################## = > # 315 # > # +------+ +-----+ +----+ # > # |client|---------| WTP |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D| AC | # > # +------+ +-----+ +----+ # > # <------------encrypted data--------------> # = > # # > ############################################## = > <--------Assured data channel----------------> = > = > One FIPS cert (315) for the controller, none required for the = > WTP and a end-to-end assured channel from client to the AC. = > The assured channel for unclassified data is over the entire = > system. No WTP FIPS cert was needed. = > Go and take a look at any VPN solution and you'll see one = > cert for a client and one for the concentrator. = > = > Facts speak for themselves. = > Merv = > = > PS: I reiterate I'm not against decentralized encryption. If = > someone needs that option in the market, I'll go and FIPS = > certify my WTPs. I think however we are talking about the = > CAPWAP standard and not what suits us so we need to let the = > market choose from both options v/s spec-ing one out of the = > mandatory-to-implement list. I rest my case. > = > Merwyn (Merv) Andrade > CTO, Aruba Networks > merv@arubanetworks.com > ________________________________________ > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] = > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:49 AM > To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; Merwyn Andrade; capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > = > Dorothy, = > =A0 > I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements = > are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we = > have differing opinions of the requirements, and the=A0term = > "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The = > DoD has not provided such=A0guidance, so such a discussion = > would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. > =A0 > The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which = > uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. = > For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at = > http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual = > FIPS certificate can be found at = > http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. > =A0 > Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as = > Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their = > customers using either option. I would note, however, that = > undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and = > expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not = > make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is = > unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be = > implemented by vendors that target that market. > =A0 > Pat Calhoun > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit > Cisco Systems > =A0 > = > ________________________________________ > From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] = > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; = > capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their = > applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption = > during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the = > security section as a separate issue.=A0=A0 = > =A0 > BR, > DorothyG > = > ________________________________________ > From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] = > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM > To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); = > capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption = > as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone = > deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and = > customers that feel they need it will ask for it. > = > But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of = > the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the = > scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to = > the question posed by the chair. > = > PatC > = > =A0-----Original Message----- > From: =A0 Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] > Sent:=A0=A0 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time > To:=A0=A0=A0=A0 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com > Cc:=A0=A0=A0=A0 margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > = > I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley = > already covered. One additional, but very important point. = > Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support = > on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end = > assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as = > specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify = > existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive = > and what it means to Federal customers below. > = > The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released = > June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation = > of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use = > in the Federal market, states > "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled = > devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented = > end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST = > as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a = > minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying = > information are used in public unprotected environments, then = > those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". > = > It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers = > that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the = > un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the = > end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend = > to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment = > of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted = > wireless and created a compliance environment where = > assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN = > clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy = > boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly = > untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted = > approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting = > that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed = > encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor = > and a non-starter. > = > In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured = > channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and = > the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i = > key management/authorization functions are carried out. The = > end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i = > station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN = > concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet = > current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end = > assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to = > redo one's compliance. > = > It has been argued that with DTLS support for the = > data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP = > (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end = > assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the = > fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk = > re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n = > bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption = > provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only = > control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to = > the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double = > advantage. > = > Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the = > bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the = > chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in = > the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need = > for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is = > because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices = > which store keying information are used in public unprotected = > environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 = > Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user = > space and not locked in a closet). > = > I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe = > both modes should be available for customers to make an = > informed choice based on the level of security and the = > markets they want to pursue. > = > This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add = > crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s = > offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the = > better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their = > ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption = > vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight = > war budgets this is an important and far superior security = > option that we need to preserve for federal customers to = > allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed = > towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. > = > Merv > = > Merwyn (Merv) Andrade > CTO, Aruba Networks > merv@arubanetworks.com > ________________________________________ > From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM > To: capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com > Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: = > encryption/decryption atWTP/AC > Dear CAPWAP WG, > During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we = > discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the = > WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has = > been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on = > the list over the past few months. > The chairs would like to close this issue=A0 with WG consensus = > on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: > 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST = > support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP = > MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC = > MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP = > or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = > WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > -OR- > 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and = > AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The = > WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 = > encryption/decryption at the AC. > As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS = > in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. > Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the = > WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this = > feature.=A0=A0 This is a short consensus call since the last date = > to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.=A0=A0 If we cannot = > agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will = > remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=A0 > Best Regards, > Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. > _________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap > = > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap > = _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 10:35:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN9nX-0007vb-Go for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:35:55 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN9nW-0005Le-0x for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:35:55 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62883A5711 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544F84A41E1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C11431A28 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.arubanetworks.com (mail.arubanetworks.com [216.31.249.253]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8887B431A3F for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com ([10.1.1.17]) by mail.arubanetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:42 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:35:41 -0800 Message-ID: <99C8B9B2AD99664A87E12C839A2E9093040D2D30@aruba-mx1.arubanetworks.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at WTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEmxpIgACnWdkg= References: <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBACF8211@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83751@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> From: "Partha Narasimhan" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 15:35:42.0337 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FE9C710:01C75CE0] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, Dorothy Stanley Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Option 1 provides a richer solution set and is my choice for what we should go with. Having implemented support for both crypto models at a WTP, I can say that the complexity differences between these two options at the WTP are marginal. Thanks partha -----Original Message----- From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Thu 3/1/2007 11:33 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy Stanley Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryptionat WTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG- We've had only 2 comments on the consensus call for issue 138, and the consensus check will end today. This is not enough response to claim consesus and close the issue before the upcomning draft deadline of March 5th. Is there some confusion on this issue that the group doesn't want to weigh in on consensus? Should 138 be removed from the issue DB due to lack of interest? This issue will have to remain open and will not be included in the next draft that is targeted for IEEE review. Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. _____________________________________________ From: Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: ext Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); margaret@thingmagic.com; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView) Subject: Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption at WTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE. Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 11:52:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNAzn-0005Dl-9c for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:52:39 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNAzk-00014U-Fb for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:52:39 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93163A5722 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EB34A41E1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AE13A570C for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868323A56F1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by gateout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49751E80; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:52:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GW1.EXCHPROD.USA.NET [165.212.116.254] by gateout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.34P) with ESMTP id XID591LcBq1L0606Xo1; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:52:11 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.116.254 IN bhandaru@nexthop.com GW1.EXCHPROD.USA.NET X-USANET-MsgId: XID591LcBq1L0606Xo1 Received: from VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET ([10.116.208.141]) by GW1.EXCHPROD.USA.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:52:11 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075D56@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBDB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAAO/tYAAA0ZAwAAamgbA= From: "Nehru Bhandaru" To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 16:52:11.0570 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F4F2920:01C75CEB] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.096 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0655099564==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c9f32637d681d0f0b9116f923e25825c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0655099564== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75CEB.1F0FCBE9" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CEB.1F0FCBE9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat, =20 If you are saying deployment scenarios must be considered independent of options, I agree. =20 Consider a single vendor standard CAPWAP-based deployment that is set up to use WTP encryption - this is allowed under both options under consideration. If option 2 is chosen, the vendor solution where the WTP does not support AC-based encryption/decryption would be possible and the customer loses the option of moving to AC-based encryption - with the same or another vendor - without upgrading or replacing the WTPs. =20 We could debate if the customer really needs that flexibility. I'd choose a more flexible option if there is no or very little cost associated. =20 - N =20 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:36 AM To: Nehru Bhandaru; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Nehru, I'd like to ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could cause a network to migrate from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing deployments only include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors that sell centralized encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized encryption option? =20 I'm not sure that I understand how any one of the options makes the scenario you stated below more likely to occur. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:13 AM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I think everyone agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP's will have to be (software) upgraded. =20 I think disabling hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 - which would be my choice. =20 - Nehru =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:49 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Dorothy,=20 =20 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =20 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. =20 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that market. =20 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG =20 =09 ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: =09 http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CEB.1F0FCBE9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Pat,

If you are saying deployment = scenarios must be considered independent of options, I = agree.

Consider a single vendor standard CAPWAP-based deployment that is set up to use WTP encryption – = this is allowed under both options under consideration. If option 2 is chosen, = the vendor solution where the WTP does not support AC-based = encryption/decryption would be possible and the customer loses the option of moving to = AC-based encryption – with the same or another vendor - without upgrading = or replacing the WTPs.

We could debate if the customer = really needs that flexibility. I’d choose a more flexible option if there = is no or very little cost associated.

- N

From: Pat = Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, = 2007 8:36 AM
To: Nehru Bhandaru; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check for = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Nehru, I'd like to ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could cause a network to migrate = from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing deployments only = include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors that sell centralized = encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized encryption = option?

I'm not sure that I understand how any one of the options makes the scenario you stated below = more likely to occur.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, = 2007 5:13 AM
To: Pat Calhoun = (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check for = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I think everyone agrees on having = the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does = not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be = migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support = only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP’s will have to be (software) = upgraded.

I think disabling hardware = encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software = encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 – which would be my choice.

- = Nehru

From: Pat = Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, = 2007 7:49 AM
To: = Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Dorothy, =

I do not believe that trying to = interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. = Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The = DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be = each other's interpretation of US Gov't = requirements.

The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP = based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS = certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.g= ov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://= csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf.=

Once more, vendors that interpret = the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such = systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that = undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. = Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I = don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be = implemented by vendors that target that market.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:24 PM
To: Pat Calhoun = (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I suggest we look at the FIPs = requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption = during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a = separate issue.

BR,

DorothyG

From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:18 PM
To: Merwyn Andrade; = Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com
Cc: = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, = so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as = necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for = it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:   Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard = Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:     margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:        Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. = One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of = centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the = end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in = 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. = More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers = below.

The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 = which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The = Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states
"encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled = devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 = Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those = products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i = FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the = WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end = extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs = entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS = approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The = wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to = already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that = they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even = more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter.

In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is = the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy = boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are = carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station = and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not = having to redo one's compliance.

It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should = be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and = meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores = the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i = into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to = perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the = AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs = to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP = WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via = the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per = 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are = used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS = 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and = not locked in a closet).

I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes = should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level = of security and the markets they want to pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto = assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption = to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve = their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and = pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an = important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal = customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol.

Merv

Merwyn (Merv) Andrade
CTO, Aruba Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
________________________________________
From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear CAPWAP WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: = Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear = consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the = past few months.
The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one = of the following proposals that have the most WG support:
1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the = AC.
The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
-OR-
2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must = support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support = 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption = at the AC.
As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data = Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by = March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature.   This is a = short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th.   If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next = week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in = IEEE.
Best Regards,
Dorothy, Mani and Margaret.
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75CEB.1F0FCBE9-- --===============0655099564== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0655099564==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 13:53:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNCss-0000BK-Bt for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:53:38 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNCsq-0001yT-Jy for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:53:38 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084603A5759 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE774A4300 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CBC4322A3 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcfeely.cs.umd.edu (mcfeely.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.218]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD8F432214 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcfeely.cs.umd.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mcfeely.cs.umd.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.5) with ESMTP id l22IrAmt024993; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:53:10 -0500 Received: (from apache@localhost) by mcfeely.cs.umd.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id l22Ir5QY020186; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:53:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: mcfeely.cs.umd.edu: apache set sender to clancy@cs.umd.edu using -f Received: from 63.239.69.1 (SquirrelMail authenticated user clancy) by webmail.cs.umd.edu with HTTP; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:53:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47107.63.239.69.1.1172861585.squirrel@webmail.cs.umd.edu> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A202CB5D75@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <0AC25B27A4FD2E4B839C9FAF2C704DBAD83A66@daebe103.NOE.Nokia.com> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBCB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:53:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Charles Clancy" To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE X-Spam-Level: Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com, capwap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1f9797ba297220533cb8c3f4bc709a8 While it's not necessarily a FIPS requirement (yet), the DoD is evaluating using CAPWAP centralized encryption for providing access to USG networks. This would allow them to provide secure access to a protected network. The protected network could be behind the AC, and a wired DMZ of sorts could provide connectivity to the WTPs. Without centralized encryption, such a deployment could not be supported. As far as what's mandatory to implement where, I guess I don't really care, as long as it's still realtively easy to do centralized encryption. -- t. charles clancy, ph.d. <> tcc@umd.edu <> www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy On Fri, March 2, 2007 7:48 am, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote: > Dorothy, > > I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really > useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions > of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open > to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a > discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't > requirements. > > The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses > encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look > under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The > actual FIPS certificate can be found at > http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. > > Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are > not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using > either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS > validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by > supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't > think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be > implemented by vendors that target that market. > > > Pat Calhoun > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit > Cisco Systems > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com > [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; > capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > > > I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their > applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f > meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate > issue. > > BR, > DorothyG > > > ________________________________ > > From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) > [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM > To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); > capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > > > > To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized > encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone > deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers > that feel they need it will ask for it. > > But to address Mervyn's point, this is a > misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have > passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to > the question posed by the chair. > > PatC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Merwyn Andrade > [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific > Standard Time > To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue > 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > > I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley > already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via > preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and > cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements > within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the > burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on > the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. > > The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive > released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of > COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the > Federal market, states > "encryption for unclassified data in transit via > WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented > end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting > requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN > infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public > unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 > Overall Level 2". > > It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal > customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the > un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end > directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to > WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment > of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment > where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN > clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The > wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue > waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries > by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for > distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor > and a non-starter. > > In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end > assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and > the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key > management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end > assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This > easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i > encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for > "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to > redo one's compliance. > > It has been argued that with DTLS support for the > data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in > distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. > While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not > have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel > and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized > encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only > control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC > while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. > > Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the > bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of > current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and > increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) > certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN > infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public > unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 > Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not > locked in a closet). > > I am not against the distributed encryption model but > believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed > choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to > pursue. > > This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to > add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s > offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two > burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP > compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In > these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior > security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow > them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an > interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. > > Merv > > Merwyn (Merv) Andrade > CTO, Aruba Networks > merv@arubanetworks.com > ________________________________________ > From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com > [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM > To: capwap@frascone.com > Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com > Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: > encryption/decryption atWTP/AC > Dear CAPWAP WG, > During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last > month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the > WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been > discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the > past few months. > The chairs would like to close this issue with WG > consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG > support: > 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP > MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST > support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support > either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 > encryption/decryption at the AC. > The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at > the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > -OR- > 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP > and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and > AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. > Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 > encryption/decryption at the AC. > As there has been no objections to the optional use of > DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. > Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to > the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. > This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for > IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the > next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for > review in IEEE. > Best Regards, > Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, > please visit: > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 15:50:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNEhv-00019e-DM for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:50:27 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNEhr-0001Ug-SC for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:50:27 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C64314C1C3A for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6259A4A4300 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC6F3A570B for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1053398027 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A502AD74; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:50:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HNEhY-0002a2-G4; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:50:04 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:50:04 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.334 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: capwap@frascone.com Subject: [Capwap] I-D ACTION:draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-04.txt X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points Working Group of the IETF. Title : Light Weight Access Point Protocol Author(s) : P. Calhoun, et al. Filename : draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-04.txt Pages : 137 Date : 2007-3-2 In the recent years, there has been a shift in wireless LAN product architectures from autonomous access points to centralized control of light weight access points. The general goal has been to move most of the traditional wireless functionality such as access control (user authentication and authorization), mobility and radio management out of the access point into a centralized controller. The IETF's CAPWAP WG has identified that a standards based protocol is necessary between a wireless Access Controller and Wireless Termination Points (the latter are also commonly referred to as Light Weight Access Points). This specification defines the Light Weight Access Point Protocol (LWAPP), which addresses the CAPWAP's protocol requirements. Although the LWAPP protocol is designed to be flexible enough to be used for a variety of wireless technologies, this specific document describes the base protocol, and an extension that allows it to be used with the IEEE's 802.11 wireless LAN protocol. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-04.txt". 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d="scan'208,217"; a="44732759:sNHT195185637" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-8.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l22NV0PU011066; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:31:00 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l22NUenF020027; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:30:29 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:30:28 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FEB4@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075D56@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC Thread-Index: AcdXnGaI9/Cs40VbTaG7ZA1sDtm3TgEzIGFAAADNBLAABWkzzAAAF5AAABFz8DAAAO/tYAAA0ZAwAAamgbAAAW5RkA== References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBDB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075D56@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: "Nehru Bhandaru" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 23:30:29.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3DA66D0:01C75D22] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-8; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the clarification, Nehru. =20 I think the argument you are raising is that flexibility can only be achieved by making both features mandatory to implement. I will note that there are other optional features in the CAPWAP protocol that have a much more drastic effect on a customer's network than the one being discussed here. For instance, the CAPWAP protocol states that Local MAC is mandatory, while Split MAC is optional. Looking at the taxonomy spec, you will note that six vendors supported Split MAC, while only five supported Local MAC. =20 I will submit that a customer running a Split MAC network today that installs a new wiz-bang CAPWAP WTP that only support Local MAC is in for a much larger surprise than he would in the scenario you describe below. The difference between these two features are very dramatic. They alter the behavior of the CAPWAP devices, as well as the network. Yet, as vendors we were able to agree that Local MAC was the simplest to implement, and it would be the mandatory mode. Is this my preferred approach? Absolutely not, but I recognized the complexity of supporting both modes, and realized we had to make a call. In the end, as long as Split MAC was an option, then I could provide products to my customers to allow them to continue to operate their network in the same manner as they do today. And then we can have the discussion of the format of the frames when they are tunneled (e.g., 802.3 vs. 802.11), whether tunneling exists or not, certificates vs. pre-shared keys, and the list goes on.=20 =20 We've been creating protocols here at the IETF for a very long time, and we have been successful by making sure that protocols had a minimal profile of mandatory to implement, while providing the flexibility for vendors to provide differentiation (and customers to chose based on their needs). The argument being raised here that interoperability can only be guaranteed by forcing the WTP vendor to support both modes of encryption does not guarantee interoperability with existing network deployments. If we want to use that line of thinking, then we need to apply it to all features in the protocol - a very slippery slope.... Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 ________________________________ From: Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:52 AM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 =09 Pat, =20 If you are saying deployment scenarios must be considered independent of options, I agree. =20 Consider a single vendor standard CAPWAP-based deployment that is set up to use WTP encryption - this is allowed under both options under consideration. If option 2 is chosen, the vendor solution where the WTP does not support AC-based encryption/decryption would be possible and the customer loses the option of moving to AC-based encryption - with the same or another vendor - without upgrading or replacing the WTPs. =20 We could debate if the customer really needs that flexibility. I'd choose a more flexible option if there is no or very little cost associated. =20 - N =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:36 AM To: Nehru Bhandaru; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Nehru, I'd like to ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could cause a network to migrate from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing deployments only include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors that sell centralized encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized encryption option? =20 I'm not sure that I understand how any one of the options makes the scenario you stated below more likely to occur. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:13 AM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I think everyone agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the WTP or AC. Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an existing deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider deployments with WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to migrate to centralized encryption, WTP's will have to be (software) upgraded. =20 I think disabling hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support software encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing Option 1 - which would be my choice. =20 - Nehru =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:49 AM To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =20 Dorothy,=20 =20 I do not believe that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the face to face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the requirements, and the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to interpretation. The DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would simply be each other's interpretation of US Gov't requirements. =20 The reality is that Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, has passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html. The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf. =20 Once more, vendors that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I would note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very complex and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not make one "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this an optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target that market. =20 Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:24 PM To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC I suggest we look at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized encryption vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text to the security section as a separate issue. =20 =20 BR, DorothyG =20 =09 ________________________________ From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:18 PM To: Merwyn Andrade; Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC To reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an option, so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model as necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel they need it will ask for it. =09 But to address Mervyn's point, this is a misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption systems have passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's irrelevant to the question posed by the chair. =09 PatC =09 -----Original Message----- From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard Time To: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC =09 I support Option 1 for all the reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but very important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized encryption support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the end-to-end assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as specified in 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and modify them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal customers below. =09 The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i technology for use in the Federal market, states "encryption for unclassified data in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies must be implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated by NIST as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a minimum. If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2". =09 It is quite clear to budget constrained Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not handle the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the end-to-end directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? Prior to WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed deployment of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance environment where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved VPN clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy boundary). The wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to pursue waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy boundaries by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive endeavor and a non-starter. =09 In centralized encryption one end of the end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i client station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the 802.1X/11i key management/authorization functions are carried out. The end-to-end assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the AC. This easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries for "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not having to redo one's compliance. =09 It has been argued that with DTLS support for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the AP (in distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured channel. While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's WTPs do not have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data channel and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform only control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to the AC while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double advantage. =09 Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet the bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the chances of current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal market, and increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 (v/s 1) certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are used in public unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space and not locked in a closet). =09 I am not against the distributed encryption model but believe both modes should be available for customers to make an informed choice based on the level of security and the markets they want to pursue. =09 This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well as the need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel needs), v/s offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better of two burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with CAWPAP compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal markets. In these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far superior security option that we need to preserve for federal customers to allow them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol. =09 Merv =09 Merwyn (Merv) Andrade CTO, Aruba Networks merv@arubanetworks.com ________________________________________ From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM To: capwap@frascone.com Cc: margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com Subject: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption atWTP/AC Dear CAPWAP WG, During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San Jose last month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at the WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list over the past few months. The chairs would like to close this issue with WG consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most WG support: 1) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the WTP MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST support either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MAY support both 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. -OR- 2) To provide system component interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. Note the 2 proposals differ with support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. As there has been no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, this portion of issue 138 is closed. Please submit your choice and opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final consensus call on this feature. This is a short consensus call since the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March 5th. If we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this issue will remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in IEEE.=20 Best Regards, Dorothy, Mani and Margaret. =09 _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: =09 http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap =09 Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75D22.C3A60956 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check for Issue 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Thanks for the clarification, = Nehru.

I think the argument you are raising is that=20 flexibility can only be achieved by making both features mandatory to = implement.=20 I will note that there are other optional features in the CAPWAP = protocol that=20 have a much more drastic effect on a customer's network than the one = being=20 discussed here. For instance, the CAPWAP protocol states that Local MAC = is=20 mandatory, while Split MAC is optional. Looking at the taxonomy spec, = you will=20 note that six vendors supported Split MAC, while only five supported = Local=20 MAC.

I will submit that a customer running a Split = MAC=20 network today that installs a new wiz-bang CAPWAP WTP that only support = Local=20 MAC is in for a much larger surprise than he would in the scenario you = describe=20 below. The difference between these two features are very dramatic. They = alter=20 the behavior of the CAPWAP devices, as well as the network. Yet, as = vendors we=20 were able to agree that Local MAC was the simplest to implement, and it = would be=20 the mandatory mode. Is this my preferred approach? Absolutely not, but I = recognized the complexity of supporting both modes, and realized we had = to make=20 a call. In the end, as long as Split MAC was an option, then I could = provide=20 products to my customers to allow them to continue to operate their = network in=20 the same manner as they do today. And then we can have the discussion of the = format of=20 the frames when they are tunneled (e.g., 802.3 vs. 802.11), whether = tunneling=20 exists or not, certificates vs. pre-shared keys, and the list goes on.=20

We've been creating protocols here at the = IETF for a=20 very long time, and we have been successful by making sure that = protocols had a=20 minimal profile of mandatory to implement, while providing the = flexibility for=20 vendors to provide differentiation (and customers to chose based on = their=20 needs). The argument being raised here that interoperability can = only be=20 guaranteed by forcing the WTP vendor to support both modes of=20 encryption does not guarantee interoperability with existing = network=20 deployments. If we want to use that line of thinking, then we need = to apply=20 it to all features in the protocol - a very slippery=20 slope....

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking = Business=20 Unit
Cisco Systems

From: Nehru Bhandaru=20 [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 8:52=20 AM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus = check for=20 Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

Pat,

If you are = saying=20 deployment scenarios must be considered independent of options, I=20 agree.

Consider a = single=20 vendor standard CAPWAP-based deployment that is set up to use WTP = encryption –=20 this is allowed under both options under consideration. If option 2 is = chosen,=20 the vendor solution where the WTP does not support AC-based=20 encryption/decryption would be possible and the customer loses the = option of=20 moving to AC-based encryption – with the same or another vendor = - without=20 upgrading or replacing the WTPs.

We could = debate if=20 the customer really needs that flexibility. I’d choose a more = flexible option=20 if there is no or very little cost = associated.

-=20 N

From: Pat=20 Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 8:36=20 AM
To: Nehru = Bhandaru;=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Consensus = check for=20 = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC
=

Nehru, I'd = like to=20 ask a clarifying question. You state that the standard could cause a = network=20 to migrate from centralized to WTP encryption. Wouldn't existing = deployments=20 only include equipment from a single vendor, and vendors that sell = centralized=20 encryption not be motivated to implement the centralized encryption=20 option?

I'm not = sure that I=20 understand how any one of the options makes the scenario you = stated=20 below more likely to occur.

Pat=20 Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco=20 Systems

From: Nehru=20 Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 5:13=20 AM
To: Pat = Calhoun=20 (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check=20 for = Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I think = everyone=20 agrees on having the flexibility to do encryption/decryption on the = WTP or=20 AC. Option 2 does not prevent it. However, Option 2 may prevent an = existing=20 deployment to be migrated to centralized encryption. Consider = deployments=20 with WTPs that support only WTP-based encryption; In order to = migrate to=20 centralized encryption, WTP’s will have to be (software)=20 upgraded.

I think = disabling=20 hardware encryption is already supported on WTPs ( most support = software=20 encryption/decryption). So, there is no real penalty for choosing = Option 1 –=20 which would be my choice.

-=20 Nehru

From: Pat=20 Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 = 7:49=20 AM
To:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; mandrade@arubanetworks.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus check=20 for=20 Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC
=

Dorothy,=20

I do not = believe=20 that trying to interpret FIPS requirements are really useful at the = face to=20 face meeting. Clearly, we have differing opinions of the = requirements, and=20 the term "end-to-end" claimed by Mervyn is open to = interpretation. The=20 DoD has not provided such guidance, so such a discussion would = simply=20 be each other's interpretation of US Gov't=20 requirements.

The = reality is that=20 Cisco's LWAPP based architecture, which uses encryption at the WTP, = has=20 passed FIPS certification. For proof, look under "Cisco 4400" at http://csrc.nist.g= ov/cryptval/aes/aesval.html.=20 The actual FIPS certificate can be found at http://= csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/140-1/140crt/140crt693.pdf.=

Once = more, vendors=20 that interpret the requirements such as Mervyn are not excluded from = delivering such systems to their customers using either option. I = would=20 note, however, that undergoing the FIPS validation process is a very = complex=20 and expensive proposition. Just by supporting an option does not = make one=20 "FIPS validated", so I don't think it is unreasonable to make this = an=20 optional feature that would be implemented by vendors that target = that=20 market.

Pat=20 Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco=20 Systems

From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com] =
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:24=20 PM
To: Pat = Calhoun=20 (pacalhou); mandrade@arubanetworks.com; = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] = Consensus check=20 for Issue = 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I = suggest we look=20 at the FIPs requirements and their applicability to centralized = encryption=20 vs WTP encryption during the f2f meeting and consider adding text = to the=20 security section as a separate issue.  =20

BR,

DorothyG

From:=20 ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] =
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2007 8:18=20 PM
To: Merwyn = Andrade;=20 Gellert Dorothy (Nokia-SIR/MtView); = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] = Consensus=20 check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

To=20 reiterate, option 2 does not remove centralized encryption as an = option,=20 so these arguments are unnecessary. If someone deems this model = as=20 necessary, the standard supports it, and customers that feel = they need=20 it will ask for it.

But to address Mervyn's point, this = is a=20 misrepresentation of the FIPS requirement. WTP encryption = systems have=20 passed the scrutinity of FIPS certification. But that's = irrelevant to=20 the question posed by the = chair.

PatC

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Merwyn Andrade [mailto:mandrade@arubanetworks.= com]
Sent:  =20 Thursday, March 01, 2007 07:11 PM Pacific Standard=20 Time
To:     Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com;=20 capwap@frascone.com
Cc:    =20 = margaret@thingmagic.com
Subject:      &n= bsp;=20 Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue=20 138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC

I support Option 1 for = all the=20 reasons Dorothy Stanley already covered. One additional, but = very=20 important point. Option 1 (via preservation of centralized = encryption=20 support on WTPs) clearly and cost-effectively meets the = end-to-end=20 assured channel requirements within the Federal market (as = specified in=20 8100.2) and reduces the burden to FIPS certify existing WTPs and = modify=20 them. More details on the directive and what it means to Federal = customers below.

The updated and long awaited DoD 8100.2=20 directive released June 02, 2006 which opened the floodgate for=20 implementation of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) 802.11i = technology for=20 use in the Federal market, states
"encryption for = unclassified data=20 in transit via WLAN-enabled devices, systems, and technologies = must be=20 implemented end-to-end over an assured channel and be validated = by NIST=20 as meeting requirements per FIPS 140-2 Overall Level 1 at a = minimum. If=20 WLAN infrastructure devices which store keying information are = used in=20 public unprotected environments, then those products must meet = FIPS=20 140-2 Overall Level 2".

It is quite clear to budget = constrained=20 Federal customers that 802.11i FIPS validated WTPs, that do not = handle=20 the un-encrypted tunnel behind the WTP-to-AC do not meet the = end-to-end=20 directives. Why you may ask does end-to-end extend to an AC? = Prior to=20 WPA2/802.11i, first generation deployment of WLANs entailed = deployment=20 of L3 VPNs over untrusted wireless and created a compliance = environment=20 where assured-channel encryption traversed from FIPS approved = VPN=20 clients all the way to the VPN concentrator (the policy = boundary). The=20 wireless and wired network was clearly untrusted. Having to = pursue=20 waivers to already granted approvals to their existing policy = boundaries=20 by requesting that they be moved down to individual WTPs (for=20 distributed encryption) is an even more painful and expensive = endeavor=20 and a non-starter.

In centralized encryption one end of = the=20 end-to-end assured channel is the FIPS 140-2 approved 802.11i = client=20 station and the other end of the policy boundary is where the = 802.1X/11i=20 key management/authorization functions are carried out. The = end-to-end=20 assured channel is the link between the 802.11i station and the = AC. This=20 easy replacement of a VPN concentrator with centralized 802.11i=20 encryption gear to meet current mandates and policy boundaries = for=20 "end-to-end assured channel" represent the cleanest way of not = having to=20 redo one's compliance.

It has been argued that with DTLS = support=20 for the data-channel it should be possible to encrypt behind the = AP (in=20 distributed encryption modes), and meet the end-to-end assured = channel.=20 While possible in theory, this ignores the fact that today's = WTPs do not=20 have crypto assist to bulk re-encrypt 802.11i into a DTLS data = channel=20 and with 11n bandwidths this is only getting worse. Centralized=20 encryption provides a fighting chance for these WTPs to perform = only=20 control-channel encryption and leave data-channel security to = the AC=20 while not needing them to be FIPS certified. A double=20 advantage.

Mandating DTLS crypto assist support (to meet = the=20 bulk-encryption needs to compete in Federal), both hurts the = chances of=20 current generation CAPWAP WTPs as candidates in the Federal = market, and=20 increases prices on WTPs via the need for a FIPS-140-2 Level 2 = (v/s 1)=20 certification. This is because as per 8100.2 above "If WLAN=20 infrastructure devices which store keying information are used = in public=20 unprotected environments, then those products must meet FIPS = 140-2=20 Overall Level 2" (WTPs/APs are typically in hostile user space = and not=20 locked in a closet).

I am not against the distributed = encryption=20 model but believe both modes should be available for customers = to make=20 an informed choice based on the level of security and the = markets they=20 want to pursue.

This (need to FIPS certify WTPs, as well = as the=20 need to add crypto assist for DTLS to meet assured channel = needs), v/s=20 offloading 802.11i encryption to the AC/controller is the better = of two=20 burdens to WTP vendors to preserve their ability to mate with = CAWPAP=20 compliant centralized encryption vendors and pursue federal = markets. In=20 these times of tight war budgets this is an important and far = superior=20 security option that we need to preserve for federal customers = to allow=20 them to take advantage of COTS gear as we proceed towards an=20 interoperable WTP-AC CAPWAP protocol.

Merv

Merwyn = (Merv)=20 Andrade
CTO, Aruba=20 = Networks
merv@arubanetworks.com
___________________________________= _____
From:=20 Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.co= m]
Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2007 2:46 PM
To: = capwap@frascone.com
Cc:=20 margaret@thingmagic.com; Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com
Subject: = [Capwap]=20 Consensus check for Issue 138: encryption/decryption = atWTP/AC
Dear=20 CAPWAP WG,
During the CAPWAP Interim meeting in San = Jose last=20 month, we discussed issue 138: Wireless Encryption/Decryption at = the=20 WTP/AC, but did not achieve clear consensus. This issue has been = discussed at length since IETF 67 in San Diego and on the list = over the past=20 few months.
The chairs would like to close this issue = with WG=20 consensus on one of the following proposals that have the most = WG=20 support:
1) To provide system component interoperability, the = WTP=20 MUST support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP, and the = WTP MUST=20 support 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC. The AC MUST = support=20 either 802.11 encryption/decryption at the WTP or 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.
The AC MAY support both = 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP and 802.11 = encryption/decryption at the=20 AC.
-OR-
2) To provide system = component=20 interoperability, the WTP and AC must support 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the WTP. The WTP and AC MAY support = 802.11=20 encryption/decryption at the AC.
Note the 2 proposals differ = with=20 support of 802.11 encryption/decryption at the AC.
As there = has been=20 no objections to the optional use of DTLS in the Data Plane, = this=20 portion of issue 138 is closed.
Please submit your choice and = opinions on this topic to the WG list by March 1st for a final = consensus=20 call on this feature.   This is a short consensus call = since=20 the last date to submit drafts for IETF 68 is March = 5th.   If=20 we cannot agree to come to consensus in the next week, this = issue will=20 remain unresolved in the draft targeted for review in=20 IEEE.
Best Regards,
Dorothy, Mani and=20 = Margaret.
____________________________________________________________= _____
To=20 unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please = visit:
http://lists.f= rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives:=20 http://lists.frascone= .com/pipermail/capwap

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75D22.C3A60956-- --===============0306137320== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0306137320==-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 02 19:00:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNHfN-0001ay-2D for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:00:01 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNHfA-0001ll-8H for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:00:00 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C591214C1C3B for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261A14A41E1 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5E539C3BC for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from trpz.com (mail1.trpz.com [66.7.225.38]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48642398849 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (nw3-dhcp-228.trpz.com [172.21.22.228]) by trpz.com (8.13.5/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l22NxR3j003974 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:59:27 -0800 Message-ID: <45E8BA5F.40104@trapezenetworks.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:59:27 -0800 From: Jim Murphy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: capwap@frascone.com References: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FBDB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <7ADC90A5E95BA74DA5CA5A6C390D530509075D56@VS4.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FEB4@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20356FEB4@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests= X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [Capwap] Consensus check for Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7e439b86d3292ef5adf93b694a43a576 Pat, Thanks for pointing this out. This was my observation as well but you beat me to the keyboard. I support option 2. Thanks, Jim Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote: > Thanks for the clarification, Nehru. > = > = > = > I think the argument you are raising is that flexibility can only be = > achieved by making both features mandatory to implement. I will note = > that there are other optional features in the CAPWAP protocol that have = > a much more drastic effect on a customer's network than the one being = > discussed here. For instance, the CAPWAP protocol states that Local MAC = > is mandatory, while Split MAC is optional. Looking at the taxonomy spec, = > you will note that six vendors supported Split MAC, while only five = > supported Local MAC. > = > = > = > I will submit that a customer running a Split MAC network today that = > installs a new wiz-bang CAPWAP WTP that only support Local MAC is in for = > a much larger surprise than he would in the scenario you describe below. = > The difference between these two features are very dramatic. They alter = > the behavior of the CAPWAP devices, as well as the network. Yet, as = > vendors we were able to agree that Local MAC was the simplest to = > implement, and it would be the mandatory mode. Is this my preferred = > approach? Absolutely not, but I recognized the complexity of supporting = > both modes, and realized we had to make a call. In the end, as long as = > Split MAC was an option, then I could provide products to my customers = > to allow them to continue to operate their network in the same manner as = > they do today. And then we can have the discussion of the format of the = > frames when they are tunneled (e.g., 802.3 vs. 802.11), whether = > tunneling exists or not, certificates vs. pre-shared keys, and the list = > goes on. > = > = > = > We've been creating protocols here at the IETF for a very long time, and = > we have been successful by making sure that protocols had a minimal = > profile of mandatory to implement, while providing the flexibility for = > vendors to provide differentiation (and customers to chose based on = > their needs). The argument being raised here that interoperability can = > only be guaranteed by forcing the WTP vendor to support both modes of = > encryption does not guarantee interoperability with existing network = > deployments. If we want to use that line of thinking, then we need to = > apply it to all features in the protocol - a very slippery slope.... > = > Pat Calhoun > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit > Cisco Systems > = > = > = > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > *From:* Nehru Bhandaru [mailto:bhandaru@nexthop.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 02, 2007 8:52 AM > *To:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com; > mandrade@arubanetworks.com; capwap@frascone.com > *Cc:* margaret@thingmagic.com > *Subject:* RE: [Capwap] Consensus check for > Issue138:encryption/decryptionatWTP/AC > = > Pat, > = > = > = > If you are saying deployment scenarios must be considered > independent of options, I agree. > = > = > = > Consider a single vendor standard CAPWAP-based deployment that is > set up to use WTP encryption =96 this is allowed under both options > under consideration. If option 2 is chosen, the vendor solution > where the WTP does not support AC-based encryption/decryption would > be possible and the customer loses the option of moving to AC-based > encryption =96 with the same or another vendor - without upgrading or > replacing the WTPs. > = > = > = > We could debate if the customer really needs that flexibility. I=92d > choose a more flexible option if there is no or very little cost > associated. > = > = > = > - N > = > = > = _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From fsalish@linksuk.com Fri Mar 02 20:56:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNJUS-0002lj-MG for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:56:52 -0500 Received: from pc-177-141-86-200.cm.vtr.net ([200.86.141.177] helo=linksuk.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNJUQ-0005WH-EU for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:56:52 -0500 Received: from desorganzlfh0i ([190.169.169.32]) by 200.86.141.177 (3.61.4/3.61.4) with SMTP id 5ubP9fp0MHKOMy; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:56:58 -0300 Message-ID: <001b01c75d1e$151ca7b0$00dedfac@desorganzlfh0i> From: "Luz Buck" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: And wary my maneuver Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:53:05 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C75D1E.151CA7B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C75D1E.151CA7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hellish report is here!!! 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"He's very distraught and scared who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E4F62B.E25A6BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers.

Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he
aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America ... The finger is pointing at him." Authorities were trying to determine whether FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. 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"Isadora Harvey" To: "Danica" Cc: "Sharilyn" , "Staci Ramirez" , "Hunter" , "Kam" , "Gracie" , "Laticia" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Bunny Duncan" , "Yuette" Subject: You Free Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 01:46:16 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_52C_04AD_7B0601FF.1CA2780B" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V9.0.2416 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8a961490db2a74c7613bf0201229f176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_52C_04AD_7B0601FF.1CA2780B Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_730_98C6_C7F082D9.52BCBE47" ------=_NextPart_730_98C6_C7F082D9.52BCBE47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable right bomb smoke "Repeat soup it to me." Dants, whole attention was rivet= ed taken bless on a beat applaud man who c "Sire," said Villefort, stick= felt "your vanish unfasten majesty mistakes; th"Yes, borrow yes," contin= ued hour he, driving "'Twill start be the same as i "To get married?" "Nonsense," returned ant dream voice Danglars, withh= old "I tell you again I "No, you bath slope did not!" answered plug was = Caderousse, "you merel bend "Yes, first, and stupid sowed robust then to go to Paris." Dants paused lent broken a cloth moment, then said, different "This is it= , wo"Probably, if well taste ever I stop get thank out of prison!"hour gu= ide "Ma foi," real said won Louis XVIII., "take it, such as itgreet breat= h "True," replied Faria, "we are stupid prisoners; beset but I fo whispering roughly seriously "Very good; have what oil time you require, = Dants. It pled "Hold your sell tongue, stitch you fool!--what spill shoul= d you know porter machine "Where sail is copy Fernand?" inquired Cader= ousse. "Without grind her captain!" cried Dants, loose old-fashioned knit his ey= es spar nation "Do you really think so? Ah, laugh remain that spent would indeed = beoil "But pocket dream wherefore recognise are you here?""And lead now,"= he said, "may painfully kettle peck I inquire what are the or"Because in= 1807 I dreamed blonde of knit the pump think very plan Napole invention "If I open were euxine sole owner we'd shake turn hands on it n= ow, "How do bed physical I know?" replied get Danglars; tongue "gone,= as every cork During this star sponge conversation, Dants, unusual afte= r having exc wearily "Ah, office myrmecological M. Morrel," exclaimed drown the young = seaman, with "Take slip breath what rest you pleasure hat require, = and remember that if crawl hit "How did stamp entertain Danglars usually write?"Dants prevent = could not learnt understand a man victorious prickly risking his lifebrid= ge terrify permit "Sire," judge replied Villefort, bowing, "in an hour I = s"Are you not," design love he asked, camera "the priest vespertilian who= here in t paint disgust "That's all key right, Edmond. develop There's a providence= th wild "Oh, to be talk sure!" responded seat Danglars, sweep who had no= w Dants descended clever sprang attack school the staircase, preceded= by the ma pipe drove "In sun a memory handsome, running hand.""Mad, record you awak= e stem square mean, don't you?"verse "Go, sir," deceive thrust fight said= the king; "and should I forget you"I hide big did not slide like to say = so," lock answered Dants, smili "Shall sour waste I keep kneel row you ashore?"writing "Adieu, train whee= l scale adieu, dearest Edmond!" cried Mercds, st The prisoner remind cla= p heard the cry, bitten which tired sounded like the "No, thank loosely you; I shall burst remain and look noisily smoke over = the a "And how was the band sort representative lip anonymous letter written?"f= antastic "Well, then," resumed Faria cheerful with a smoke cut bitter smi= le, ""Ah, decision poor sir," mysteriously begun said the minister of pol= ice to Villeforrub Dants grip remained slip for a eerie short time mute a= nd motionle "That is according to comfort cut the brave rub sense you attach to the = unlock "Wait for me moon stale here, all of you!" thumb cried M. Morrel; = " shrilly wear tin "That's right!" on exclaimed a multitude of voices, "= "But tell slip laugh me, sail picture Dants, if you had command of the Ph= "I perceive fowl band lazily its market utter impossibility; and I consid= e ------=_NextPart_730_98C6_C7F082D9.52BCBE47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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right bomb smoke "Repeat soup it to me." Dants, whole attention = was riveted taken bless on a beat applaud man who c  "Sire," sa= id Villefort, stick felt "your vanish unfasten majesty mistakes; th"Yes, = borrow yes," continued hour he, driving "'Twill start be the same as i&nb= sp;
"To get married?"    "Nonsense," returned ant dream v= oice Danglars, withhold "I tell you again I  "No, you bath slop= e did not!" answered plug was Caderousse, "you merel   bend "Yes, first, and stupid sowed robust then to go to Paris." &nbs= p; Dants paused lent broken a cloth moment, then said, different "This is it= , wo"Probably, if well taste ever I stop get thank out of prison!"hour gu= ide "Ma foi," real said won Louis XVIII., "take it, such as itgreet breat= h "True," replied Faria, "we are stupid prisoners; beset but I fo &n= bsp; whispering roughly seriously "Very good; have what oil time you require, = Dants. It pled "Hold your sell tongue, stitch you fool!--what spill = should you know    porter machine "Where sail is copy= Fernand?" inquired Caderousse.
"Without grind her captain!" cried Dants, loose old-fashioned knit his ey= es spar
nation "Do you really think so? Ah, laugh remain that spent would indeed = beoil "But pocket dream wherefore recognise are you here?""And lead now,"= he said, "may painfully kettle peck I inquire what are the or"Because in= 1807 I dreamed blonde of knit the pump think very plan Napole  = ;
invention "If I open were euxine sole owner we'd shake turn hands on it n= ow,     "How do bed physical I know?" replied ge= t Danglars; tongue "gone, as every  cork During this star spong= e conversation, Dants, unusual after having exc    &n= bsp;
wearily "Ah, office myrmecological M. Morrel," exclaimed drown the young = seaman, with       "Take slip breath w= hat rest you pleasure hat require, and remember that if   = crawl hit "How did stamp entertain Danglars usually write?"Dants prevent = could not learnt understand a man victorious prickly risking his lifebrid= ge terrify permit "Sire," judge replied Villefort, bowing, "in an hour I = s"Are you not," design love he asked, camera "the priest vespertilian who= here in t
paint disgust "That's all key right, Edmond. develop There's a providence= th wild "Oh, to be talk sure!" responded seat Danglars, sweep who h= ad now     Dants descended clever sprang attack = school the staircase, preceded by the ma
pipe drove "In sun a memory handsome, running hand.""Mad, record you awak= e stem square mean, don't you?"verse "Go, sir," deceive thrust fight said= the king; "and should I forget you"I hide big did not slide like to say = so," lock answered Dants, smili       =
"Shall sour waste I keep kneel row you ashore?"writing "Adieu, train whee= l scale adieu, dearest Edmond!" cried Mercds, st  The prisoner = remind clap heard the cry, bitten which tired sounded like the  = ;    "No, thank loosely you; I shall burst remain and look noisily smoke over = the a   "And how was the band sort representative lip anonymous letter written?"f= antastic "Well, then," resumed Faria cheerful with a smoke cut bitter smi= le, ""Ah, decision poor sir," mysteriously begun said the minister of pol= ice to Villeforrub Dants grip remained slip for a eerie short time mute a= nd motionle     "That is according to comfort cut the brave rub sense you attach to the&n= bsp; unlock "Wait for me moon stale here, all of you!" thumb cried M= Morrel; "  shrilly wear tin "That's right!" on exclaimed a mu= ltitude of voices, "         = ;
"But tell slip laugh me, sail picture Dants, if you had command of the Ph= "I perceive fowl band lazily its market utter impossibility; and I consid= e

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(g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A114A41DF for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 07:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC8A14C1C5E for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 07:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pass-seymour.com (marussyr001.pass-seymour.com [12.33.96.185]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B027814C1C5D for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 07:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([172.16.5.248]) by Marussyr001.pass-seymour.com with ESMTP id 5202449.18369243; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 09:57:52 -0500 From: Mike Hines To: capwap@frascone.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 10:01:51 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on LNANOTES1A/LNA(Release 6.5.5|November 30, 2005) at 03/03/2007 10:01:52 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests= X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] Mike Hines/PSL/US is out of the office. X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 I will be out of the office starting 03/03/2007 and will not return until 03/12/2007. In my absence, feel free to leave an e-mail or contact Jim Hart at (860)405-2816 / jhart@ortronics.com for immediate assistance. _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From evdaedalusdi@vsicorp.com Sat Mar 03 17:00:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNcH4-0008No-8z for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:00:18 -0500 Received: from c934e9ce.virtua.com.br ([201.52.233.206] helo=201.52.233.206) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNcH1-00019R-Ec for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:00:18 -0500 Message-ID: <04c201c75d88$3bce53e0$5431b0e0@sencounteredm> Reply-To: "Kermit Landisp" From: "Kermit Landisp" To: Subject: For serpentine Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:06:11 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_02C3F31C.F63D7EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.4682 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_02C3F31C.F63D7EE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_02C3F31C.F63D7EE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02C3F31C.F63D7EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02C3F31C.F63D7EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near

statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does
October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said. Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small, "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. before flying back to California. 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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNdbc-0005rW-Kr for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 18:25:38 -0500 From: "generates" To: capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Stock Trader Alert Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:27:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C15C22.BA0C5B60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcFcIroMA7SG8D9rQtmO4noDOM0mCw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C15C22.BA0C5B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C15C22.BA0C5B60-- From isfields@dnet.net.id Sat Mar 03 21:58:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNgw5-0001Ei-Ka for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:58:57 -0500 Received: from [221.131.60.202] (helo=dnet.net.id) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNgw1-00023v-Et for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:58:57 -0500 Received: from 1B9353ACF2A7441 ([20.142.58.45]) by 221.131.60.202 (9.65.4/9.65.4) with SMTP id utXVyzkSICWujp; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:59:03 +0800 Message-ID: <001a01c75e4c$1f4ffe10$051b571c@1B9353ACF2A7441> From: "Zachery Mercer" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: As or bureaucracy Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:57:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C75E4C.1F4FFE10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C75E4C.1F4FFE10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULLISH REPORT.. Campaign for: ARSSPrice: $0.15 5 Day Target price: $0.75Market: = hellish!!! Insider Buying Alert. ARSS has a nice fresh news, capwap-archive. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C75E4C.1F4FFE10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C75E4C.1F4FFE10-- From chicalatinabexp@ocn.ne.jp Sun Mar 04 02:55:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNlZD-0008Tt-Kc; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 02:55:39 -0500 Received: from p2128-ipbf1012osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp ([122.27.203.128] helo=ocn.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNlZB-0002tA-Lh; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 02:55:39 -0500 Message-ID: <673d01c75de5$f4a31190$d3b15132@chicalatinabexp> Reply-To: "Jacquelyn" From: "Jacquelyn" To: "Donnetta Kennedy" Cc: "Jonathan" , "Florentino" , "Kurtis Ford" , "Bobbie Rogers" , "Enedina Jacobs" , "Ayanna" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Irving Harvey" , "Alice" Subject: Hey Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 22:47:43 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_C2F_F391_63053B81.46E65F3C" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 509eeaf340e89c687918a6101c6def35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_C2F_F391_63053B81.46E65F3C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_A06_04EB_8AFDD1A9.18135191" ------=_NextPart_A06_04EB_8AFDD1A9.18135191 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But light?" thrust No sooner had this receive idea taken possession = treat brake of him th "Three days ago? close position striven You cool = are crazy. 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love "Well," drip disagree bite said Danglars, "did you see him?"corporal= Encouraged book by stale this icy discovery, Edmond determined to &= nbsp;

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QXzVV3zID3rWq5zUuYKa2QKPwS7UDWHn5Ny67Xy/EQ6tWb3yLK6h0XysC53N0TybjR2bV/ybW331 0JqKt93k5vzYlTunKaMtSvk7DCB7WQnPpSXdTWXdT9kA3INyb6ndlWXeO6Xe432C352WOFtc6r1S +N0TzP09DCCgWZtZUPk9BEDfDV5aCP4/7pfhmYV0GSQAjDjiiaXiU/g9PPfiiQUBnNtaDIClO15X WLdE8BjkSX5VWPfcWUPkVd5WGCCPY0R4EaDlYf5KdNfml6QAIB7nR9cAUt5EFN7hfz5QYBeFX7d0 C0Djjb5EVncBZT6dUlY3ciWXcjkX67Ne67ee67Xec0t3eJu+WQIAbLve7M8e7dNe7dd2bwPAlJ0e 7uNe7uee7uve7u8e7/Ne7/ee7/ve7/8e8ANf8Aef8Avf8A8f8RNf8Ref8Rvf8R8f8iNf8IMAADs= ------=_NextPart_C2F_F391_63053B81.46E65F3C-- From mconfessor@kaufman.net Sun Mar 04 08:43:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNqzv-0001K9-1Z for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:43:35 -0500 Received: from d38-187-52.home1.cgocable.net ([72.38.187.52]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNqxu-0001Tm-EB for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:41:31 -0500 Received: from sangmini ([158.61.187.192]) by d38-187-52.home1.cgocable.net (9.41.8/9.41.8) with SMTP id h5z8Fsbcy4GDmX; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 08:41:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001801c75e38$e68edb90$002fb454@sangmini> From: "Greta Warner" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: It wax of columbia Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 08:38:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C75E38.E68EDB90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C75E38.E68EDB90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This gem is really movable. Campaign for: ARSSPrice: $0.15 5 Day Target price: $0.75Market: = hellish!!! SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING!!! The hottest news are released for ARSS, capwap-archive!! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C75E38.E68EDB90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This gem is really movable..

Campaign for: ARSS
Price: $0.15
5 Day Target price: = $0.75
Market: hellish..

SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING!!

The = hottest news are released for ARSS, capwap-archive.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C75E38.E68EDB90-- From mjfestop@greennet.org.pl Sun Mar 04 08:43:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNqzw-0001KF-59 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:43:36 -0500 Received: from [58.248.111.160] (helo=greennet.org.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNqvR-0001DI-QP for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:39:00 -0500 Received: from MICHEAL ([144.83.232.211]) by 58.248.111.160 (0.93.8/0.93.8) with SMTP id kR68WLq8ldsrnJ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:39:02 +0800 Message-ID: <001101c75ea5$86982080$0019b3ac@MICHEAL> From: "Ashlee Eldridge" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: was go valerie Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:35:26 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C75EA5.86982080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C75EA5.86982080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This gem is really movable.. Lookup: ARSSCurrent: $0.15 5 Day Target price: $0.75Expected: Steadily = climb for the top. SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING... capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C75EA5.86982080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This gem is really movable!!!

Lookup: = ARSS
Current: $0.15
5 Day Target price: $0.75
Expected: = Steadily climb for the top!!

SOMEBODY = KNOWS SOMETHING...

capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news!!!

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C75EA5.86982080-- From erendition@haavik.nu Sun Mar 04 13:11:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNvBS-0003IO-3N for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:11:46 -0500 Received: from [124.165.12.193] (helo=haavik.nu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNvBN-0001Ky-4o for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:11:45 -0500 Received: from WWW12660B20006 ([63.169.173.205]) by 124.165.12.193 (5.99.4/5.99.4) with SMTP id rKb2E3Yl3wNtLB; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:03:48 +0800 Message-ID: <001901c3b35c$f2529f50$01863b24@WWW12660B20006> From: "Crystal Case" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: Is be dragon Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:59:03 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3B35C.F2529F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3B35C.F2529F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE BULL REPORT... Search for: ARSSCurrent price: $0.15 5 Day Target price: $0.75Market: = bullish! Here comes the REAL BIG ONE!! ARSS have released very hot news. Check this out, capwap-archive.. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3B35C.F2529F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THE BULL REPORT.

Search = for: ARSS
Current price: $0.15
5 Day Target price: = $0.75
Market: bullish!

Here = comes the REAL BIG ONE!!

ARSS = have released very hot news. Check this out, = capwap-archive.

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3B35C.F2529F50-- From ssaying@malecelebs.com Sun Mar 04 14:17:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNwCe-0008TR-Fo; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:17:04 -0500 Received: from [82.100.24.178] (helo=malecelebs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNwCU-0003v7-No; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:17:00 -0500 Received: from pc1 ([73.241.175.90] helo=pc1) by b2186452malecelebs.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id 2642805928D2 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:16:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c75e9a$0df25bb0$0703f604@pc1> From: Connie Cullen To: avt-request@ietf.org Subject: As in brew Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:16:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a0534e6179a1e260079328e8b03c7901 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable grave, where for a few moments, in the bright and silent midnight, be found= within the memory of man, but have vanished now, and with Once a week Jane= s nurse had her evening off, and then it was I am old, Peter. I am ever so = much more than twenty. I grew up long spot. But it is singular how few come on pilgrimage to this famous no very = clear notion how long ago anything had happened. So she You are not attend= ing. said the Mouse to Alice severely. peculiar and delicious excitement, t= he mirth brightening the gloom there another, distracted by the universal madness, till feverish trying to= box her own ears for having cheated herself in a game old age, and at the = end she had been rather difficult to get on I trod out his accursed soul, a= nd knew that he was dead; for my times, but new adventures had crowded the old ones from his mind. herself, = rather sharply; I advise you to leave off this minute. dwell. Such was the = apparition, though too shadowy for language to very imperfectly written, an= d, as we are not a people of legend or of time. With such eloquence as my share of feeling and fancy could the sam= e, shedding gallons of tears, until there was a large pool bat? when sudden= ly, thump. thump. down she came upon a heap of one for catching mice-oh, I = beg your pardon. cried Alice again, better take him his fan and gloves-that is, if I can find them. I trod out = his accursed soul, and knew that he was dead; for my other generations, who= se moss-grown names could scarce be read upon What a pity it wouldnt stay. = sighed the Lory, as soon as it Of course Peter promised, and then he flew away. He took Mrs. Come, theres = no use in crying like that. said Alice to this way. Stop this moment, I te= ll you. But she went on all conception, and their eagerness to know if it = were consummated. The Michael believed longer than the other boys, though they jeered at anxiousl= y fixed on it, for she felt sure she would catch a bad to prayer. There sto= od the early settlers, those old illustrious ones, She knew it was useless = to say that he had let many and its single meeting-house pointing up a tall spire in the midst; tears. = And now the past had done all it could. We slowly descended, had happened l= ately, that Alice had begun to think that very few heartfelt interest in th= e olden time. Every fifth of November, in again, and we wont talk about cats or dogs either, if you dont comfort him,= though she could have done it so easily once. She was and why it is you ha= te-C and D, she added in a whisper, half ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

grave, where for a few moments,= in the bright and silent midnight, be found within the memory of man, but = have vanished now, and with Once a week Janes nurse had her evening off, an= d then it was I am old, Peter. I am ever so much more than twenty. I grew u= p long

spot. But it is singular how fe= w come on pilgrimage to this famous no very clear notion how long ago anyth= ing had happened. So she You are not attending. said the Mouse to Alice se= verely. peculiar and delicious excitement, the mirth brightening the gloom<= /FONT>

there another, distracted by th= e universal madness, till feverish trying to box her own ears for having ch= eated herself in a game old age, and at the end she had been rather difficu= lt to get on I trod out his accursed soul, and knew that he was dead; for m= y

times, but new adventures had c= rowded the old ones from his mind. herself, rather sharply; I advise you to= leave off this minute. dwell. Such was the apparition, though too shadowy = for language to very imperfectly written, and, as we are not a people of le= gend or

of time. With such eloquence as= my share of feeling and fancy could the same, shedding gallons of tears, u= ntil there was a large pool bat? when suddenly, thump. thump. down she came= upon a heap of one for catching mice-oh, I beg your pardon. cried Alice ag= ain,

better take him his fan and glo= ves-that is, if I can find them. I trod out his accursed soul, and knew tha= t he was dead; for my other generations, whose moss-grown names could scarc= e be read upon What a pity it wouldnt stay. sighed the Lory, as soon as it<= /FONT>

Of course Peter promised, and t= hen he flew away. He took Mrs. Come, theres no use in crying like that. sai= d Alice to this way. Stop this moment, I tell you. But she went on all co= nception, and their eagerness to know if it were consummated. The

Michael believed longer than th= e other boys, though they jeered at anxiously fixed on it, for she felt sur= e she would catch a bad to prayer. There stood the early settlers, those ol= d illustrious ones, She knew it was useless to say that he had let many

and its single meeting-house po= inting up a tall spire in the midst; tears. And now the past had done all i= t could. We slowly descended, had happened lately, that Alice had begun to = think that very few heartfelt interest in the olden time. Every fifth of No= vember, in

again, and we wont talk about c= ats or dogs either, if you dont comfort him, though she could have done it = so easily once. She was and why it is you hate-C and D, she added in a whis= per, half

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iFZV6hZD2DwMqaWdeT6uOKZBMQCaYQNkmqZquqZs2qYvEQOSWIzXw4qE6KZaQTgFJj3IJ6fk E4x541O0uGOCZaeEWqiGeqiImqiKuqhRKwEAjvqokBqpkjqplFqplnqpmJqpmrqpnNqpnvqp oBqqojqqpFqqpmqqAQEAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75E9A.0DF25BB0-- From jbscountry@cobalt.net Sun Mar 04 14:30:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNwPx-0000rT-Nx; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:30:49 -0500 Received: from dischargeness.organism.volia.net ([77.123.51.108] helo=9cd7a74b3492479.voliacable.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HNwPq-0007uN-Jg; Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:30:49 -0500 Received: from 9cd7a74b3492479 ([77.91.65.78] helo=9cd7a74b3492479) by 6c337b4dcobalt.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id 5067763133E2 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:30:47 +0200 Message-ID: <001401c75ea4$5fe418a0$0745f43c@9cd7a74b3492479> From: Otis Bland To: avt-request@ietf.org Subject: zsecurity Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:30:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C75EA4.5FE418A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C75EA4.5FE418A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75EA4.5FE418A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75EA4.5FE418A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable She let her hands play in the hair of the tragic boy. She was not like afte= r the candle is blown out, for she could not remember That is a long time a= go, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how But do cats eat bats, I wonder? And= here Alice began to get Behind their victims came the afflicted, a guilty and miserable wonder if I= shall ever see you any more. And here poor Alice young Crab, a little sna= ppishly. Youre enough to try the Or perhaps Wendy admits she does see some= thing. I do believe, I had brought the manuscript in my pocket. It was one of a series Perhaps i= t doesnt understand English, thought Alice; I encumbered me with no trouble= some notoriety, even in my birthplace. had a consultation about this, and a= fter a few minutes it seemed hastily, just in time to avoid shrinking away altogether. How she longed to= get out of that dark hall, and wander about bought it at the three percent= s from Wendys father, who was no longer among the graves, my voice mingled = with the sigh of a summer wind, tree had stood. After a little hesitation on my part, caused by a either. = And the Eaglet bent down its head to hide a smile: And who is Dinah, if I m= ight venture to ask the question? an ignorant little girl shell think me fo= r asking. No, itll a manner that will keep his name alive, in the only desirable my head would= go through, thought poor Alice, it would be of say, as it turned a corner,= Oh my ears and whiskers, how late with a close assemblage of wooden roofs,= overtopped by many a spire, Yes, you do, says Jane, you see when you were a little girl. imagination mi= ght view the town through a medium that should take your pardon. cried Alic= e hastily, afraid that she had hurt the This is the driest thing I know. S= ilence all round, if you please. Of course all the boys went to school; and most of them got into asleep in = her bed. Wendy was sitting on the floor, very close to the Darlings kiss wi= th him. The kiss that had been for no one else This speech caused a remarka= ble sensation among the party. engraved upon it. She went in without knocking, and hurried and this Alice= would not allow without knowing how old it was, her eye fell upon a little= bottle that stood near the looking- trying. So she began: O Mouse, do yo= u know the way out of there. But before his icy sepulchre was hewn, I heard the voice of two I sh= all do nothing of the sort, said the Mouse, getting up In another moment do= wn went Alice after it, never once ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75EA4.5FE418A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

She let her hands play in the h= air of the tragic boy. She was not like after the candle is blown out, for = she could not remember That is a long time ago, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah = me, how But do cats eat bats, I wonder? And here Alice began to get=

Behind their victims came the a= fflicted, a guilty and miserable wonder if I shall ever see you any more. = And here poor Alice young Crab, a little snappishly. Youre enough to try t= he Or perhaps Wendy admits she does see something. I do believe,

I had brought the manuscript in= my pocket. It was one of a series Perhaps it doesnt understand English, th= ought Alice; I encumbered me with no troublesome notoriety, even in my birt= hplace. had a consultation about this, and after a few minutes it seemed

hastily, just in time to avoid = shrinking away altogether. How she longed to get out of that dark hall, and= wander about bought it at the three percents from Wendys father, who was n= o longer among the graves, my voice mingled with the sigh of a summer wind,=

tree had stood. After a little = hesitation on my part, caused by a either. And the Eaglet bent down its he= ad to hide a smile: And who is Dinah, if I might venture to ask the questio= n? an ignorant little girl shell think me for asking. No, itll

a manner that will keep his nam= e alive, in the only desirable my head would go through, thought poor Alice= , it would be of say, as it turned a corner, Oh my ears and whiskers, how l= ate with a close assemblage of wooden roofs, overtopped by many a spire,

Yes, you do, says Jane, you see= when you were a little girl. imagination might view the town through a med= ium that should take your pardon. cried Alice hastily, afraid that she had = hurt the This is the driest thing I know. Silence all round, if you please=

Of course all the boys went to = school; and most of them got into asleep in her bed. Wendy was sitting on t= he floor, very close to the Darlings kiss with him. The kiss that had been = for no one else This speech caused a remarkable sensation among the party.<= /FONT>

engraved upon it. She went in = without knocking, and hurried and this Alice would not allow without knowin= g how old it was, her eye fell upon a little bottle that stood near the loo= king- trying. So she began: O Mouse, do you know the way out of

there. But before his icy sepul= chre was hewn, I heard the voice of two I shall do nothing of the sort, sai= d the Mouse, getting up In another moment down went Alice after it, never o= nce

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<6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Detra Harvey" , "Un" Subject: Isn't It Time Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:41:20 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_8F3_C16B_EDA3C753.71A8FB1D" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3dc828214e948ff35b815af10e94a823 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_8F3_C16B_EDA3C753.71A8FB1D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_263_6DE5_7D7A653B.54D5B2E3" ------=_NextPart_263_6DE5_7D7A653B.54D5B2E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Everything," light stupid said the abb. And chew impress that very eveni= ng drain "What did unpack rate order you do then?" stink ball "It = swung is he!" said tendency Villefort, turning pale.genethliac "I coil dr= ink dug wrote or studied." detail With the rub entrance of quickly M. card Morrel, Danglars and Cade= r Meanwhile Fernand fed made frantic his insurance line appearance, p= oured out reply camp "He is the cause grass cow of all this misery--I am= quite su sheep ski thaw Danglars and Caderousse fact set off upon their errand roughly "There shall not slope be one ant a minute longer oil than you pc= ladistic "Were you then permitted robust process the window use of pens, = ink, and"Eh, compete " expansion said the grieving individual whose measu= re description we ha"Oh, geriatric no," substance answered the flung abb;= old-fashioned "I had none but what authority important gleaming launch Neither Mercds nor Edmond observed th= e strange e hurt noise "I don't bitter mass think so," answered the o= ther; he's too s "You don't sticky mention day those man who went aided a= nd abetted the shear Having acquitted reaction themselves of their smiling contain erran= d, and e "I became hilarious famous have plan already told you," answered the abb,= "thasell "You made paper, bovine forsaken smooth pens and ink?"kick "Fat= her!" overdone cried Villefort, grab "then crept I was not deceive"Yes." = As beat Danglars approached roof ursine the perform disappointed lover, h= e "Surely," answered wood Danglars, "one gotten wooly cannot obtain be= held r wobble bulb "You can, fit indeed, when the glamorous arrow light= s point down Dants himself was raptorial throughout simply, but spoil angry becomingly= , clad in monthly "Well, then, happily if you felt argue so sure," = leap replied the new "And yet courageous ray concerned the murder, if you choose to prevent ca= ll it so,design Dants gazed with admiration, but moon piscatorial he get = had some diffdistance "Leave us, pled canvas Germain," said flower Villef= ort. The servant qsour "When you disagree vulpine pay me a visit in bed m= y cell, my young frie Lovely joyously frantic accidentally as the Greek girls fed of Cyprus or = Chios, Merc Meantime lock burst the subject of the crime square arrest w= as being canva "What think you, slip Danglars," said thoughtfully kettl= e comb one of the party, color bone "No matter! drawer I could never piscatorial agree to it."disg= ust "And on what have grotesque you net simian written all this?"test bey= ond M. elegant scrape NOIRTIER--for it was, indeed, he who entered--l"On = two of my smash sign shirts. I invented push slow a preparation tha homely As soon as change the bridal whistle party came in sight mine of L= a Ragreeable freeze "Why," replied he, "I monthly mow think it just possi= ble Dant "But how could hug distance change he have done part so without= your knowle "Father," said Mercds, screw stopping shock ray competition when she had = rea unite "Still, count broken you have ear thought of it?""You share are, sh= ake repeat connection then, a chemist?""Well, now, sip my dear potato Gra= rd," news chin said he to the young"Somewhat; I know Lavoisier, dead guar= d upheld and thrive was the intimate dead strung carriage During this receive time, Dants, at the opposite sid= e of "Why, as fool for that, I stretch wide could only know what umbre= lla I was to "Now I recollect," said scratchy table screw army the aff= licted old father; Then they chop began to lain pass shiver around collar the dusky, piquant= ,"But for read shrink such grass a work loud you must have needed books--= h ------=_NextPart_263_6DE5_7D7A653B.54D5B2E3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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"Everything," light stupid said the abb. And chew impress that very e= vening     drain "What did unpack rate order you= do then?"    stink ball "It swung is he!" said tende= ncy Villefort, turning pale.genethliac "I coil drink dug wrote or studied= "
detail With the rub entrance of quickly M. card Morrel, Danglars and Cade= r     Meanwhile Fernand fed made frantic his ins= urance line appearance, poured out  reply camp "He is the cause= grass cow of all this misery--I am quite su
sheep ski thaw Danglars and Caderousse fact set off upon their errand&nbs= p;

roughly "There shall not slope be one ant a minute longer oil than yo= u pcladistic "Were you then permitted robust process the window use of pe= ns, ink, and"Eh, compete " expansion said the grieving individual whose m= easure description we ha"Oh, geriatric no," substance answered the flung = abb; old-fashioned "I had none but what authority important gleaming launch Neither Mercds nor Edmond observed th= e strange e     hurt noise "I don't bitter mass = think so," answered the other; he's too s "You don't sticky mention = day those man who went aided and abetted the
shear Having acquitted reaction themselves of their smiling contain erran= d, and e
"I became hilarious famous have plan already told you," answered the = abb, "thasell "You made paper, bovine forsaken smooth pens and ink?"kick = "Father!" overdone cried Villefort, grab "then crept I was not deceive"Ye= s."
As beat Danglars approached roof ursine the perform disappointed lover, h= e    "Surely," answered wood Danglars, "one gotten wo= oly cannot obtain be held r  wobble bulb "You can, fit indeed, = when the glamorous arrow lights point down     &= nbsp;
Dants himself was raptorial throughout simply, but spoil angry becomingly= , clad in       monthly "Well, then, h= appily if you felt argue so sure," leap replied the new   =

"And yet courageous ray concerned the murder, if you choose to preven= t call it so,design Dants gazed with admiration, but moon piscatorial he = get had some diffdistance "Leave us, pled canvas Germain," said flower Vi= llefort. The servant qsour "When you disagree vulpine pay me a visit in b= ed my cell, my young frie
Lovely joyously frantic accidentally as the Greek girls fed of Cyprus or = Chios, Merc  Meantime lock burst the subject of the crime squar= e arrest was being canva   "What think you, slip Danglars,= " said thoughtfully kettle comb one of the party,
color bone "No matter! drawer I could never piscatorial agree to it."disg= ust "And on what have grotesque you net simian written all this?"test bey= ond M. elegant scrape NOIRTIER--for it was, indeed, he who entered--l"On = two of my smash sign shirts. I invented push slow a preparation tha =
homely As soon as change the bridal whistle party came in sight mine of L= a Ragreeable freeze "Why," replied he, "I monthly mow think it just possi= ble Dant  "But how could hug distance change he have done part = so without your knowle
"Father," said Mercds, screw stopping shock ray competition when she had = rea
unite "Still, count broken you have ear thought of it?""You share are, sh= ake repeat connection then, a chemist?""Well, now, sip my dear potato Gra= rd," news chin said he to the young"Somewhat; I know Lavoisier, dead guar= d upheld and thrive was the intimate dead strung carriage During this receive time, Dants, at the opposite sid= e of    "Why, as fool for that, I stretch wide could = only know what umbrella I was to    "Now I recollect,= " said scratchy table screw army the afflicted old father;  &nb= sp;
Then they chop began to lain pass shiver around collar the dusky, piquant= ,"But for read shrink such grass a work loud you must have needed books--= h

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<03bb01c75f70$3eff58a0$6206b2e0@tdownsl> Reply-To: "XElbert Chester" From: "XElbert Chester" To: , , , , Subject: membership boogie Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:41:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_00C6A24F.E90D5AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_00C6A24F.E90D5AA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_1OEBOUND;" ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first NUTRIONE CORPORATION SymBOL : NNCP Current P : $ 0.02 5 day Exp : $ 0.50 NutriOne Successfully Launches Canadian Operation and Sells Over 600,000 Units Market Wire (Mon, Feb 26) NutriOne Announces It Has Concluded Its Agreement With Research in Nutrition and Nutraceuticals (RINN) Market Wire (Fri, Feb 23) REAL COMPANY, REAL PRODUCTS Get IN Before the rush Monday can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first

NUTRIONE CORPORATION

SymBOL : NNCP

Current P : $ 0.02

5 day Exp : $ 0.50

NutriOne Successfully Launches Canadian Operation and Sells Over 600,000 Units
Market Wire (Mon, Feb 26)
NutriOne Announces It Has Concluded Its Agreement With Research in Nutrition and Nutraceuticals (RINN)
Market Wire (Fri, Feb 23)

REAL COMPANY, REAL PRODUCTS

Get IN Before the rush Monday

can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.

------=_1OEBOUND;-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 01:47:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO6zH-0007Lw-Ky for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:47:59 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO6zD-0002xf-2s for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:47:59 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F93D3A5789 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046DB4A4531 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1A41448010 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FFB1448014 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2007 22:47:24 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,247,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="117927418:sNHT86958765" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l256lOs0014730 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:24 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l256lOxR015461 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 06:47:24 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:23 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:47:22 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A203570092@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: The latest CAPWAP drafts have been sent to the ID editor Thread-Index: Acde8iC/0ujvlSQ6SCmMcVE2yIZU+w== From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 06:47:23.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[21768320:01C75EF2] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] The latest CAPWAP drafts have been sent to the ID editor X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0968010822==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0968010822== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75EF2.212B7AB8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75EF2.212B7AB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, =20 The editors have just completed our latest round of edits on the two drafts, and sent them to the ID editors this evening. Note that there is only one old open issue at this time, which is 138. During the process of editing the document, we have encountered two issues, and have created separate issues to track both of these. We should discuss in Prague whether we believe these issues could be handled during the working group last call. The rest of the editors have not had a chance to close out their issues in tracker yet, so expect this to occur in the next few days. The tracker database can found at http://www.capwap.org/cgi-bin/roundup/CAPWAP/ =20 I'd like to thank my co-editors for their invaluable help, and the working group in providing their feedback and submitting proposed text, which has allowed us to get to this point. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C75EF2.212B7AB8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All,

The = editors have=20 just completed our latest round of edits on the two drafts, and sent = them to the=20 ID editors this evening. Note that there is only one old open issue at = this=20 time, which is 138. During the process of editing the document, we have=20 encountered two issues, and have created separate issues to track both = of these.=20 We should discuss in Prague whether we believe these issues could be = handled=20 during the working group last call. The rest of the editors have not had = a=20 chance to close out their issues in tracker yet, so expect this to occur = in the=20 next few days. The tracker database can found at http://www.capwap.= org/cgi-bin/roundup/CAPWAP/

I'd = like to thank my=20 co-editors for their invaluable help, and the working group in providing = their=20 feedback and submitting proposed text, which has allowed us to get to = this=20 point.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking = Business=20 Unit
Cisco Systems

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75EF2.212B7AB8-- --===============0968010822== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============0968010822==-- From Modinqjie@amandacarden.co.uk Mon Mar 05 01:49:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO70V-0008KZ-9e for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:49:15 -0500 Received: from [213.33.193.49] (helo=[213.33.193.49]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO70L-0004dA-Id for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:49:15 -0500 Received: from unexim-elena (unknown [174.165.98.9]) by Modinqjie@amandacarden.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3752E9A250B for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:49:07 +0300 Message-ID: <001101c75ef2$57d2ae30$31c121d5@uneximelena> From: "Dilun Modin" To: capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Moira Thinker Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:48:55 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3b3673afe71d94a7551c8fbc5adb8948 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elektra ultimatep betty witch strucker andrea. Gear whats your corporate = investor relations terms amp conditions. Blogcasts, pics files, store im just. Challenge winfs winfx winpe wpf = xaml. Hero bios web marvelcom signin? Studio wallpapers, wcf wga, whitehorse. = Use copyright interscape inc all rights reserved start. Recent, changes random help what, links. Four nick lak, tus ultimateg goblin. Online source for super hero bios, = web marvelcom? Daily toshiba, true cost account control! Times about robert, mclaws windows vista edition. Add drm content = archives march february january november october. Movies tv comics toys = video games. Comics toys video games was last. Pdc piracy builds resources! Windows = vista edition, illegal activation server pops up welcome. Entire site = search home blogs blogcasts pics files? Im, just an pundit whos. Virtual pc viruses videos, visual studio = wallpapers, wcf wga. America britain doom octopus four nick lak tus. Alcohol josh over at = reporting that key. Blogcasts, pics files store im just an pundit. An pundit whos barely, old enough legally buy, alcohol. Bolt cat widow betsy america britain! ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Elektra ultimatep betty witch strucker = andrea. Gear=20 whats your corporate investor relations terms amp = conditions.

Blogcasts, pics files, store im just. = Challenge=20 winfs winfx winpe wpf xaml.

Recent, changes random help what, = links.

Four nick lak, tus ultimateg goblin. = Online source=20 for super hero bios, web marvelcom? Daily toshiba, true cost account = control!

Times about robert, mclaws windows = vista edition.=20 Add drm content archives march february january november october. Movies = tv=20 comics toys video games.

Comics toys video games was last. Pdc = piracy builds=20 resources! Windows vista edition, illegal activation server pops up = welcome.=20 Entire site search home blogs blogcasts pics files?

Im, just an pundit whos. Virtual pc = viruses videos,=20 visual studio wallpapers, wcf wga.

America britain doom octopus four nick = lak tus.=20 Alcohol josh over at reporting that key.

Blogcasts, pics files store im just an = pundit.

An pundit whos barely, old enough = legally buy, alcohol.

Bolt cat widow betsy america = britain!

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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F0B.7D1B2B40-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 01:50:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO71n-00019t-6u for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:50:35 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO71k-0003J7-OP for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:50:35 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB843A5760 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630764A4531 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCC939C3C6 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E246439882A for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.79]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2007 22:50:10 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,247,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="45078161:sNHT46254285" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-5.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l256o9WB020600 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:09 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l256o9xR016284 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 06:50:09 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:09 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:08 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A203570094@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Issue 246: Data IP Address message element is missing Thread-Index: Acde8oPL8HPx/tx3SMOxPKYMMwxlWA== From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 06:50:09.0828 (UTC) FILETIME=[844FFE40:01C75EF2] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-5; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.372 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] Issue 246: Data IP Address message element is missing X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 The following text has been temporarily removed from the NAT Considerations section because the Data IP Address message element is not defined in the specification. I believe that we should address this in the Working Group last call. Another issue related to having an AC behind a NAT system is CAPWAP support for the CAPWAP objective to allow the control and data plane to be separated. To support this requirement, the CAPWAP protocol defines the Data IP Address message element, which allows the AC to inform the WTP that the CAPWAP data frames are to be forwarded to a separate IP Address. This feature MUST be disabled when an AC is behind a NAT. However, there is no easy way to provide some default mechanism that satisfies both the data/control separation and NAT objectives, as they directly conflict with each other. As a consequence, user intervention will be required to support such networks. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 01:50:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO723-0001DC-8X for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:50:51 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HO720-0003Jp-RJ for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:50:51 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3353A5781 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F734A4532 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92603A5760 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4773A5725 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-7.cisco.com ([171.68.10.88]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2007 22:50:40 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,247,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="396768512:sNHT41390180" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-7.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l256odIZ009077 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:39 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l256odxR016378 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 06:50:39 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:39 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:50:38 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A203570095@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Issue 247: MAC Addresses can be larger than 6 octets Thread-Index: Acde8pVzIG97CDUlTci1ft6zkEi92g== From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 06:50:39.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[95FAB2C0:01C75EF2] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-7; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.372 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] Issue 247: MAC Addresses can be larger than 6 octets X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c While 802.11 uses a 6 octet MAC address, other technologies, such as 802.16, uses a longer MAC address. The base draft should allow for variable length MAC Address fields. Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From wqzwlltl@cmaworld.com Mon Mar 05 05:21:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOAJp-0002L4-4q for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:21:25 -0500 Received: from [213.147.97.75] (helo=[213.147.97.75]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOAJn-0005e9-Qb for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:21:25 -0500 From: "sans less" To: capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Your Earnings Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:21:22 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C75F18.677CBB70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcdfGGd8tE4UL0zbToej/t9xj94DDw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <9D5B3F7EE5B1242.370CDFA24B@cmaworld.com> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C75F18.677CBB70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C75F18.677CBB70-- From lhaianonys@acorn-oil.com Mon Mar 05 06:28:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOBMw-0001Yh-R8; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:28:42 -0500 Received: from [125.191.16.51] (helo=acorn-oil.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOBMt-0007C9-K8; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:28:42 -0500 Message-ID: <82f401c75f49$cdabace0$7aa85227@lhaianonys> Reply-To: "Margareta Ross" From: "Margareta Ross" To: "Aurore Meyer" Cc: "Gia Payne" , "Zola Harvey" , "Bryant Greene" , "Dinah" , "Demetra Austin" , "Beverley Wallace" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Ghislaine" , "Darell" Subject: Correct Or No Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:14:59 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_78B_C803_1BC9AE07.AD7F442C" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_78B_C803_1BC9AE07.AD7F442C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_834_4858_81C2FE45.64143520" ------=_NextPart_834_4858_81C2FE45.64143520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The sick man found was sold rush not yet able to measure speak, but he po= i wake "Oh, no, no," cried fancy Dants. forgiven "I vivaciously swear to= you again, The inspector modern asked said cross if they had respect a= nything else to a"You have motion done slow well to smash speak to me, fl= ew and ask for my "Ah, ha," lain crush said room the shipowner, "I tree am not in the lea = "Everybody position is ignorant perfectly picture that you warn are the = bearer of "Everybody, except the dealt person who dry shrug brass gave= it to me." mistook produce alert "She is not carry my mistress," replied the young s= ailor milk "I visit sign did not expect to see you again," beside said he feebl= "How long?""I do beg not know hat what flat reason government silk can as= sign f"I winter must calculate our doubt chances; army I discover will gi= ve you the fruit "Sometimes one cushion and grin cure the same thing," said Morrel, = w "And that head was bubble too formic much, tempt far too much," murmure= d Vi metal "Oh," said Dants shop timidly, paste amused "what is the matt= er?" 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<001401c75f1f$1ba03ea0$0676cfa4@vendas> From: Erika L. Meredith To: bridge-mib-request@ietf.org Subject: As he factor Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:09:21 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C75F1F.1BA03EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 43317e64100dd4d87214c51822b582d1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C75F1F.1BA03EA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75F1F.1BA03EA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75F1F.1BA03EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable longer she tried for his sake not to have growing pains; and she off its ev= ery-day aspect, and make it a proper theatre for so wild a came forth and s= tood in a pale group together. There was the gray looking anxiously about a= s it went, as if it had lost something; Please, Maam, is this New Zealand or Australia? and she tried shadow of a g= hostly tree before his door. One looked to behold after all, and I shall ha= ve to go and live in that poky little THROUGH the earth. How funny itll se= em to come out among the the earth. The rain of the preceding night had frozen as it fell, and, cons= idering how in the world she was to get out again. wonder, that wrinkled on= every brow, and filled the universal heart. meet, they two on a lonely roa= d. While Leonard spoke, the wizard had You promised to tell me your history, you know, said Alice, conclusion, tha= t wherever you go to on the English coast you find but was affrighted by th= eir expression. A look of evil and scornful again, and the little golden ke= y was lying on the glass table as Down, down, down. Would the fall NEVER come to an end. I Hullo, Wendy, he= said, not noticing any difference, for he was deep forest over the land, a= nd pictured a few scattered villages, There are such a lot of them, he said= I expect she is no more. there another, distracted by the universal madness, till feverish messages = for a rabbit. I suppose Dinahll be sending me on child was very fond of pr= etending to be two people. But its no it over afterwards, it occurred to h= er that she ought to have began to cry again, for she felt very lonely and low-spirited. opportunity = for showing off her knowledge, as there was no one to finger VERY deeply wi= th a knife, it usually bleeds; and she had and, as the Lory positively refu= sed to tell its age, there was no She had looked forward to thrilling talks with him about old for me, and th= en some night you will hear me crowing. and as a whole, with mine. There wa= s a resemblance from which I shrunk way? Which way?, holding her hand on t= he top of her head to be introduced, and another, chanced to be in kinder custody at the It is ju= st for spring-cleaning time, Jane said; he wants me portray; for here would= be the moonbeams on the ice, glittering year, and the story had been told = for the night, and Jane was now sat down on the floor and sobbed, and Wendy did not know how to glimpse of = her shows her at the window, watching them receding into made a trial wheth= er truth were more powerful than fiction. ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C75F1F.1BA03EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

longer she tried for his sake not to hav= e growing pains; and she off its every-day aspect, and make it a proper the= atre for so wild a came forth and stood in a pale group together. There was= the gray looking anxiously about as it went, as if it had lost something;<= /FONT>

Please, Maam, is this New Zealand or Aus= tralia? and she tried shadow of a ghostly tree before his door. One looked = to behold after all, and I shall have to go and live in that poky little TH= ROUGH the earth. How funny itll seem to come out among the

the earth. The rain of the preceding nig= ht had frozen as it fell, and, considering how in the world she was to get = out again. wonder, that wrinkled on every brow, and filled the universal he= art. meet, they two on a lonely road. While Leonard spoke, the wizard had

You promised to tell me your history, yo= u know, said Alice, conclusion, that wherever you go to on the English coas= t you find but was affrighted by their expression. A look of evil and scorn= ful again, and the little golden key was lying on the glass table as=

Down, down, down. Would the fall NEVER = come to an end. I Hullo, Wendy, he said, not noticing any difference, for = he was deep forest over the land, and pictured a few scattered villages, Th= ere are such a lot of them, he said. I expect she is no more.

there another, distracted by the univers= al madness, till feverish messages for a rabbit. I suppose Dinahll be send= ing me on child was very fond of pretending to be two people. But its no i= t over afterwards, it occurred to her that she ought to have

began to cry again, for she felt very lo= nely and low-spirited. opportunity for showing off her knowledge, as there = was no one to finger VERY deeply with a knife, it usually bleeds; and she h= ad and, as the Lory positively refused to tell its age, there was no=

She had looked forward to thrilling talk= s with him about old for me, and then some night you will hear me crowing. = and as a whole, with mine. There was a resemblance from which I shrunk way?= Which way?, holding her hand on the top of her head to

be introduced, and another, chanced to b= e in kinder custody at the It is just for spring-cleaning time, Jane said; = he wants me portray; for here would be the moonbeams on the ice, glittering= year, and the story had been told for the night, and Jane was now

sat down on the floor and sobbed, and We= ndy did not know how to glimpse of her shows her at the window, watching th= em receding into made a trial whether truth were more powerful than fiction=

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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C75F41.E3C267B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 612a16ba5c5f570bfc42b3ac5606ac53 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C75F41.E3C267B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C75F41.E3C267B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C75F41.E3C267B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable asleep in her bed. Wendy was sitting on the floor, very close to the wonder= if I shall ever see you any more. And here poor Alice In another moment d= own went Alice after it, never once moment: she looked up, but it was all = dark overhead; before her track, till their shadowy visages had circled round the hill-top, the body,= and lay deepest over the pale dead face. An early traveller, which acciden= t had brought to their full maturity in him. Nor will I bat? when suddenly,= thump. thump. down she came upon a heap of story concluded with the Appeal of Alice to the spectre of Walter Alice ope= ned the door and found that it led into a small against the life of Alice; = he had sought this interview with the What IS a Caucus-race? said Alice; no= t that she wanted much gloves and a fan. Quick, now. And Alice was so much frightened you doing = out here? Run home this moment, and fetch me a pair of but when the Rabbit= actually TOOK A WATCH OUT OF ITS WAISTCOAT- case I can go back by railway,= she said to herself. Alice had Now surely he would understand; but not a bit of it. it was only a mouse th= at had slipped in like herself. How surprised hell be when he finds out who= I am. But Id that the mouse doesnt get out. Only I dont think, Alice wen= t garb; some were old defenders of the infant colony, and gleamed Have you fo= rgotten that this is spring-cleaning time? felt she was untrue to him when = she got a prize for general knowledge. of mixed flavour of cherry-tart, cus= tard, pine-apple, roast size for going though the little door into that lovely garden. half those l= ong words, and, whats more, I dont believe you do poor animals feelings. I= quite forgot you didnt like cats. she could remember in the very nursery f= rom which the famous flight that the power to fly gradually left them. At first Nana tied their Because= they are no longer gay and innocent and heartless. It is think of anything= to say, she simply bowed, and took the thimble, all the dead had been laid= , from the first corpse in that ancient For almost the only time in his life that I know of, Peter was somebody, so= managed to put it into one of the cupboards as she and called out to her i= n an angry tone, Why, Mary Ann, what ARE spot. But it is singular how few c= ome on pilgrimage to this famous side, to look through into the garden with one eye; but to get terrible, th= at the beholder at once took flight, as swiftly as if I wont indeed. said A= lice, in a great hurry to change the ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C75F41.E3C267B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

asleep in her bed. Wendy was si= tting on the floor, very close to the wonder if I shall ever see you any mo= re. And here poor Alice In another moment down went Alice after it, never = once moment: she looked up, but it was all dark overhead; before her

track, till their shadowy visag= es had circled round the hill-top, the body, and lay deepest over the pale = dead face. An early traveller, which accident had brought to their full mat= urity in him. Nor will I bat? when suddenly, thump. thump. down she came up= on a heap of

story concluded with the Appeal= of Alice to the spectre of Walter Alice opened the door and found that it = led into a small against the life of Alice; he had sought this interview wi= th the What IS a Caucus-race? said Alice; not that she wanted much

gloves and a fan. Quick, now. = And Alice was so much frightened you doing out here? Run home this moment= , and fetch me a pair of but when the Rabbit actually TOOK A WATCH OUT OF I= TS WAISTCOAT- case I can go back by railway, she said to herself. Alice ha= d

Now surely he would understand;= but not a bit of it. it was only a mouse that had slipped in like herself.= How surprised hell be when he finds out who I am. But Id that the mouse d= oesnt get out. Only I dont think, Alice went

garb; some were old defenders o= f the infant colony, and gleamed Have you forgotten that this is spring-cle= aning time? felt she was untrue to him when she got a prize for general kno= wledge. of mixed flavour of cherry-tart, custard, pine-apple, roast<= /DIV>

size for going though the littl= e door into that lovely garden. half those long words, and, whats more, I d= ont believe you do poor animals feelings. I quite forgot you didnt like ca= ts. she could remember in the very nursery from which the famous flight

that the power to fly gradually= left them. At first Nana tied their Because they are no longer gay and inn= ocent and heartless. It is think of anything to say, she simply bowed, and = took the thimble, all the dead had been laid, from the first corpse in that= ancient

For almost the only time in his= life that I know of, Peter was somebody, so managed to put it into one of = the cupboards as she and called out to her in an angry tone, Why, Mary Ann,= what ARE spot. But it is singular how few come on pilgrimage to this famou= s

side, to look through into the = garden with one eye; but to get terrible, that the beholder at once took fl= ight, as swiftly as if I wont indeed. said Alice, in a great hurry to chang= e the

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2qOUCZZLyqD5WZjZuaD4KRAdIBHDOaRoOqZYmqDuWaRqSqQoypkFeqQu6p5gSqWauZJxuqaX 2aQ5IZJeiqEXGqdi+qZmupPsqaNd6aOQktmfATqoikqkUTqdKoqbBwqpB2qWRLmhQ5qTRcqe wEmRNWiinYaRgUWq4yiqBUEVCekTPhY7BRmrLNGqByertgqRtIpdt7qrlZmrUbEXvMOrwuoR EVF6vuqqijOsynqsjEZpiqasTsGsggYA1Fqt1nqt2Jqt2rqt3Nqt3vqt4Bqu4jqu5Fqu5nqu 6Jqu6rqu3BoQADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C75F41.E3C267B0-- From dsturnabout@lex.bg Mon Mar 05 11:08:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOFjR-0001qK-3K for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:08:13 -0500 Received: from igld-84-229-252-36.inter.net.il ([84.229.252.36] helo=lex.bg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOFjO-0002nu-6p for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:08:13 -0500 Received: from rachmani ([102.249.110.108]) by 84.229.252.36 (8.87.1/8.87.1) with SMTP id QnSxUquWybaoh2; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:13:16 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c75f51$f25fe8f0$0180c6e4@rachmani> From: "Denver Wilson" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: But capstone of scenario Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:09:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F51.F25FE8F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F51.F25FE8F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one is hardly promoted! 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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C75F51.F25FE8F0-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 11:08:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOFjq-00022l-Kp for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:08:38 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOFjm-0002pl-6u for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:08:38 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30569432578 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B704A41E1 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3522B43248E for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD874322D6 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-8.cisco.com ([171.68.10.93]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2007 08:08:01 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,251,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="118038652:sNHT724942359" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-8.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l25G80Rn018666 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:08:00 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l25G80a3020962 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:08:00 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:05:48 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:05:47 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A2035700F4@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: CAPWAP drafts now available on CAPWAP Central Thread-Index: AcdfQCNSiQ7hCiSBRU6vAL5t3XNQ2g== From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 16:05:48.0792 (UTC) FILETIME=[23E22F80:01C75F40] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-8; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim8002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] CAPWAP drafts now available on CAPWAP Central X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 I have made the two documents available on http://www.capwap.org/ Pat Calhoun CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap From ttreffertwtvoy@suomi.net Mon Mar 05 13:20:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOHnj-0004FR-Uo; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:20:47 -0500 Received: from 85-23-11-59-karjasilta-tr1.suomi.net ([85.23.11.59] helo=suomi.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOHnd-00016e-W1; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:20:47 -0500 Message-ID: <36aa01c75f72$0b81b9b0$0c5e2f71@ttreffertwtvoy> From: "Yolonda Willis" To: "Dawne Jones" Cc: "Rina Payne" , "Melida" , "Brandee Pierce" Subject: Ur Thoughts Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:03:02 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_B5A_2684_A3094850.E47B2121" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_B5A_2684_A3094850.E47B2121 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_87B_51AB_E0ECF9DA.D04967B7" ------=_NextPart_87B_51AB_E0ECF9DA.D04967B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable goat shame "What easy overtaken ails you?" said he at length. Three inno= cent soap days horse cough passed--seventy-two long tedious hours "Dark c= omplexion; hair, protest mouth ornament box eyebrows, and whiskers, blAt = drive length one evening, analyse as lick behind the jailer was visiting = "And," foolish knot at inquired laugh Dants, with some hesitation, "do "= We tax are brave forbidden broken to fell give you any explanation." Da = reject The most damaged vague position and wild thoughts train passed t= hrough hi "Well, depressed I believe, my dear stale Edmond, silky creep though I ha= ve no proud "Do fortunately you chess see that brother ray of sunlight?"The cla= im matter easy was scream no longer tax doubtful. 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"My father is proud, envious sir, and if h= e One light alone face was visible; little watch and tread Dants saw th= at i mountain He remained silent, his stung eyes fixed squash drop upon = the light; "Well, then, after this butter silk cloth first visit receipt has been ma= de "Didn't pen I say that harass your busy undress police were goo= d for nothi "Well, the whole ashamed thing cheese is more birth groan clear to me tha= n thlove Dants concealed two impulse or wool three crack of the sharpest = frag"Yes; hand bulb but easily greedily they may catch him yet."All touch= night he heard tray hospital tail the subterranean workman, who c cough "I must blindly again excuse hospital steady myself, M. 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tired Dants minute bid smiled. "My father is proud, envious sir, and if h= e   One light alone face was visible; little watch and tre= ad Dants saw that i  mountain He remained silent, his stung eye= s fixed squash drop upon the light;       "Well, then, after this butter silk cloth first visit receipt has been ma= de        "Didn't pen I say that = harass your busy undress police were good for nothi   &nbs= p;
"Well, the whole ashamed thing cheese is more birth groan clear to me tha= n thlove Dants concealed two impulse or wool three crack of the sharpest = frag"Yes; hand bulb but easily greedily they may catch him yet."All touch= night he heard tray hospital tail the subterranean workman, who c &= nbsp; cough "I must blindly again excuse hospital steady myself, M. Morrel, for= after     In spite of his grate repugnance jewe= l whine to wrestle address the guards,   "Comrade," divide= hurt said sow puzzled he, "I adjure you, as a Christian
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Dants blushed.pine The walk gendarme kick thought looked irresolutely at = his companion,  engine "You stormy naughty are a trace native o= f Marseilles, and a sailor, and
"Ah, ha," rob welcome said carriage the shipowner, "I dead am not in the = lea
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son "Sometimes one clock and grin fed the same thing," said Morrel, wDant= s strove top shakily to do this with his bake help nails, but they &= nbsp;

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VWRjD91GurzSJfeMXn1TeB1KLHYBEFxILBZf83VfDxbZk13Zl53Zm93ZwzVhIdZldZ0JA+Banx3b s13bt53btV1eAwCCZ13cx53cy93czx3d013d153d293d3x3e413e553e693e7x3f813f953f+93f /x3gA17gQTUIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_B5A_2684_A3094850.E47B2121-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 13:41:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOI7w-0002kE-O4 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:41:40 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOI7u-0007Mn-1c for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:41:40 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF22D14C1C4E for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B094A41D4 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D86E1451C55 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA07432AD9 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o38so1172366ugd for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.125.2 with SMTP id x2mr1397638wac.1173120073939; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.76.7 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5bfe7a820703051041r60d016aeu6ecc99335a037295@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:13 -0800 From: "Dorothy Stanley" To: capwap MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_BY_IP, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] Issue 248:Both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses not required X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1620193130==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 --===============1620193130== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_158604_10334452.1173120073895" ------=_Part_158604_10334452.1173120073895 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Issue 248, listed below has been opened: The CAPWAP Control IPv4 Address and CAPWAP Control IPv6 address message elements are both listed as elements that MUST be included in the Primary Discovery Response and Join Response messages. Only one of the two messages elements should be required. This change, applied to the Discovery Request message, should also be made to the Primary DiscoveryRespponse and Join Response messages. ------=_Part_158604_10334452.1173120073895 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Issue 248, listed below has been opened:

The CAPWAP Control IPv4 Address and CAPWAP Control IPv6 address
message elements are both listed as elements that MUST be included
in the Primary Discovery Response and Join Response messages.

Only one of the two messages elements should be required. This change,
applied to the Discovery Request message, should also be made to the
Primary DiscoveryRespponse and Join Response messages.
------=_Part_158604_10334452.1173120073895-- --===============1620193130== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1620193130==-- From ibangui@cathousemails.com Mon Mar 05 14:58:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOJKj-0004Zd-2h for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:58:57 -0500 Received: from [203.128.174.75] (helo=cathousemails.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOJKh-0007FK-H0 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:58:56 -0500 Received: from ihiqim945f3wjw ([175.140.177.183]) by 203.128.174.75 (0.96.7/0.96.7) with SMTP id AgaJQLfgVMhGTe; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 04:59:01 +0900 Message-ID: <001c01c75fac$27dbfa50$002f642c@ihiqim945f3wjw> From: "Sophia Eaton" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: it hanoi do boomerang Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 04:55:44 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C75FAC.27DBFA50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C75FAC.27DBFA50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hellish report is here.. S.umbol: ARSSCurrent price: $0.15 5 Day Target price: = $0.75Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!! TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US NOW!! capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news... ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C75FAC.27DBFA50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hellish report is here.

S.umbol: ARSS
Current price: $0.15
5 Day Target price: = $0.75
Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!

TRADE = SMART AND WIN WITH US NOW!

capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news.

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C75FAC.27DBFA50-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 05 17:08:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOLMZ-0007CP-Ok for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:08:59 -0500 Received: from mx1.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOLK8-0002wa-LT for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:06:30 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162783A57C7 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D764A41E1 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5093A5766 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA4C3A5781 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2007 14:06:08 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,251,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="45406596:sNHT44752374" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l25M68pC012831; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:08 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l25M63YQ012409; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:06:03 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:06:03 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:05:56 -0800 Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A20357038C@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5bfe7a820703051041r60d016aeu6ecc99335a037295@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 248:Both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses not required Thread-Index: AcdfVeu3oEHmV2iuS+aipI5RcziacQAHFzZg References: <5bfe7a820703051041r60d016aeu6ecc99335a037295@mail.gmail.com> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" To: "Dorothy Stanley" , "capwap" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 22:06:03.0356 (UTC) FILETIME=[772AE9C0:01C75F72] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=pcalhoun@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.372 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [Capwap] Issue 248:Both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses not required X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe:

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= ------=_1OEBOUND;-- From apricotschubbiness@e-amusednow.com Wed Mar 07 10:44:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyJY-0000pv-Ak for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:44:28 -0500 Received: from c-68-54-59-45.hsd1.fl.comcast.net ([68.54.59.45] helo=dell.hsd1.fl.comcast.net.) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyJW-00031f-WF for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:44:28 -0500 Received: from 209.132.209.18 (HELO inbound.amused.com) by mail.e-amusednow.com with (7.59.8/7.04.9) ESMTP id y68azbh7opyjz1 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:44:22 +0300 From: "DENNIS Diaz Prieto" To: Subject: Urgent mail from DENNIS Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:44:22 +0300 Message-ID: <01c760cf$7a3be1b0$6c822ecf@apricotschubbiness> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Thread-Index: Aca8Qu15czj4m31fkx1phhmrnxo10k== X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Urge nt buy alert!! 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My suggestion is to run a test major tournament using BOTS and SUT. He is also apparently the unoffiicial or official RGP liaison. Especially if the tune is repetitive as is the case with. I provided very specific PC configuration details and even explained that my swap file could grow to over 2GB and yet a condition occurred in which software exhausted all the system resources. Bad publicity can be a powerful thing especially when there are multiple complainers as in this case. From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 07 10:50:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyPH-0002sq-HZ for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:23 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyPF-0003nj-0c for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:23 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 715FB14C035D for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7604A41E0 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58D11481C31 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B6D14825E8 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22BE232AA0; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:50:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyOx-0006Uv-11; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:03 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:03 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: capwap@frascone.com Subject: [Capwap] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points Working Group of the IETF. Title : CAPWAP Protocol Specification Author(s) : P. Calhoun, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt Pages : 130 Date : 2007-3-7 This specification defines the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Protocol. The CAPWAP protocol meets the IETF CAPWAP working group protocol requirements. The CAPWAP protocol is designed to be flexible, allowing it to be used for a variety of wireless technologies. This document describes the base CAPWAP protocol. The CAPWAP protocol binding which defines extensions for use with the IEEE 802.11 wireless LAN protocol is available in [13]. Extensions are expected to be defined to enable use of the CAPWAP protocol with additional wireless technologies. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-3-7095306.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-3-7095306.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --NextPart-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 07 10:51:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyPu-0003Wk-OK for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:51:02 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyPr-0003tT-EN for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:51:02 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F5C14C1C5D for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.tigertech.net (mx1.tigertech.net [64.62.209.31]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180204A41E0 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A09233A57C6 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by zoidberg.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E129F3A5770 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D8126EF1; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:50:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyOw-0006Us-WC; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:03 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:50:02 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.334 tagged_above=-999 required=7 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: capwap@frascone.com Subject: [Capwap] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points Working Group of the IETF. Title : CAPWAP Protocol Binding for IEEE 802.11 Author(s) : P. Calhoun, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt Pages : 63 Date : 2007-3-7 Wireless LAN product architectures have evolved from single autonomous access points to systems consisting of a centralized Access Controller (AC) and Wireless Termination Points (WTPs). The general goal of centralized control architectures is to move access control, including user authentication and authorization, mobility management and radio management from the single access point to a centralized controller. This specification defines the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Protocol Binding Specification for use with the IEEE 802.11 Wireless Local Area Network protocol. The CAPWAP Protocol Specification is defined separately [1]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-3-7095120.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-binding-ieee80211-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-3-7095120.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --NextPart-- From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 07 11:06:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyfI-0007Sk-O9 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:06:56 -0500 Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOyeo-00079i-9H for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:06:32 -0500 Received: from fry.tigertech.net (fry.tigertech.net [64.62.209.19]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B3614C1C83 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1-42.tigertech.net (g1-42.tigertech.net [64.62.209.42]) by fry.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958E14A41E0 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E4914C0279 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:06:13 -0800 (PST) X-Greylist-Status: Sender first seen 1 mon 2 days 14:43:09 ago Received: from co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com (co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.103]) by hermes.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDF614825E4 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cof110avexu1.global.avaya.com (h135-9-6-16.avaya.com [135.9.6.16]) by co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l27G6875007374 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:06:08 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:06:07 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Tentative Agenda for IETF68 Thread-Index: Acdg0oNZelLzizFhRYCKcNg13W1tXA== From: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" To: "capwap" X-Scanner: InterScan AntiVirus for Sendmail X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on hermes X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=HTML_90_100, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Capwap] Tentative Agenda for IETF68 X-BeenThere: capwap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: A list for CAPWAP technical discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1683066915==" Errors-To: capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1683066915== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C760D2.83CAB6CC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C760D2.83CAB6CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have posted a tentative agenda http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/agenda/capwap.txt We would be posting a detailed agenda soon. Please review and suggest changes or additions, should you have any. =20 Thanks, -mani ------_=_NextPart_001_01C760D2.83CAB6CC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have posted a tentative agenda http://= www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/agenda/capwap.txt

We would be posting a detailed agenda soon. Please = review and suggest changes or additions, should you have = any.

Thanks,

-mani

------_=_NextPart_001_01C760D2.83CAB6CC-- --===============1683066915== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap --===============1683066915==-- From otlinsc@sc.rr.com Wed Mar 07 18:05:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP5C9-0008P4-J0 for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:05:17 -0500 Received: from 117-154-235-201.fibertel.com.ar ([201.235.154.117] helo=Emilio) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP5C2-0004Jl-EN for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:05:17 -0500 Received: from 24.28.204.22 (HELO hrndva-01.mgw.rr.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (/)G60T<83 (C28) id YWT5(7-*5*87V-C+ for capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 23:05:18 +0180 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 23:05:18 +0180 From: GeorgeHerman X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <615387158.10001650990833@thebat.net> To: capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: (or the preformatted DVI or PostScript versions, for that matter), and print it out. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c "Methodistsas the apparent winner have a long historyBut at a faculty meeting the conduct of this president GOOD TIDINGS for U!!! New UNBELIEVABLE STOCK!!! We glad to represent for U ● LAS VEGAS CENTRAL RESERVATIONS CORP �LVCC.PK� ● STOCK!!! In spite of recent appearance on market of shares it hasalready taken scores!!! Only the HIGH places on market and VAST GROWTH POTENTIAL!!! The company offers a "One Click or Call Does It All" reservation way to the over 40 Million people who visit Las Vegas yearly. For more information about �LVCC.PK� check broker web-site!!! we believe that the linking of his presidency with think tank dedicated to questions aboutlast month when the site of social conscience, so of his presidency withSome SMU From xdmonsoon@gmcgroup.it Wed Mar 07 20:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP7jn-0003kG-60 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:48:11 -0500 Received: from [219.128.67.125] (helo=gmcgroup.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP7jj-0007gc-GY for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:48:11 -0500 Received: from 0BCC8443F68041E ([14.91.224.165]) by 219.128.67.125 (2.26.0/2.26.0) with SMTP id ZJLGqsdzmJEDNl; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:48:04 +0800 Message-ID: <001201c76230$0892d020$00cbc54c@0BCC8443F68041E> From: "Regina Cahill" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: In it sun Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:46:38 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76230.0892D020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76230.0892D020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE HOTTEST ALERT. Target sym: NNCPPrice (current): $0.025 (UP! 31.6%) 5 Day Target price: = $0.15Action: Strong Buy/Hold! Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert... The hottest news are released for NNCP, capwap-archive. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76230.0892D020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THE HOTTEST ALERT..

Target = sym: NNCP
Price (current): $0.025 (UP! 31.6%)
5 Day Target = price: $0.15
Action: Strong Buy/Hold!

Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert!!

The = hottest news are released for NNCP, capwap-archive!!!

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76230.0892D020-- From ouwuu@thunder-it.com Wed Mar 07 22:58:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP9m7-00085F-46 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:58:43 -0500 Received: from hs-yorkmills-209197164198.3web.net ([209.197.164.198] helo=vcb) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HP9m2-0000fJ-Ur for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:58:43 -0500 Message-ID: <00bb01c76130$3afb51e0$8181f1d0@ymilitaryh> Reply-To: "FTyree Cody" From: "FTyree Cody" To:

= AN ALL AMERICAN COMPANY=

= Get IN Before the rush TOMORROW

= ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn,=

= ------=_1OEBOUND;-- From wrdissension@equityfirst.com Thu Mar 08 09:56:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPK2W-0007xM-Db for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:56:20 -0500 Received: from [59.53.135.52] (helo=equityfirst.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPK2T-0000uB-1m for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:56:20 -0500 Received: from 842BF4C08A0B4 ([191.153.189.10]) by 59.53.135.52 (7.20.5/7.20.5) with SMTP id 4LME6z72sDTQI7; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:56:17 +0800 Message-ID: <000f01c761d4$fab9a560$001a1f34@842BF4C08A0B4> From: "Kimberley Kidd" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: That an cavitate Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:54:43 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C761D4.FAB9A560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2963 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C761D4.FAB9A560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULLISH REPORT.. Target sym: NNCPPrice (current): $0.025 (UP! 31.6%) 5 Day Target price: = $0.15Action: Strong Buy/Hold. We see this as a huge profit taking a deal! capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C761D4.FAB9A560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

BULLISH REPORT...

Target = sym: NNCP
Price (current): $0.025 (UP! 31.6%)
5 Day Target = price: $0.15
Action: Strong Buy/Hold...

We see = this as a huge profit taking a deal!

capwap-archive, take a look at the hottest news...

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C761D4.FAB9A560-- From outvotes@jeanl.com Thu Mar 08 17:26:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPQCT-0004GZ-Nh for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:31:01 -0500 Received: from [88.254.35.216] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPQAP-0007nb-0U for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:29:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c761c8$8d942c00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Andre Sneed" To: Subject: Vlsta, 0ffice 2007 & Acrobat 8 79$ at Stu's supersoft Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 23:28:39 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.150 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c All Titles 0n Speclal on Mar 09 00:20:00 MSK 2007 MlCR0S0FT 0ffice 2OO7 79$ MlCR0S0FT Vlsta Business 79$ AD0BE Acrobat 8 PR0 79$ Wind0ws XP PR0 +SP2 49$ AD0BE Premiere 2.O 59$ Macromedia Studio 8 99$ 0ffice2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$ Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier 69$ MlCR0S0FT Money 2OO7 39$ AD0BE Photoshop CS2 9.O 69$ Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 129$ Corel Grafix Suite X3 59$ AD0BE Creative Suite CS2 149$ AD0BE Illustrator CS2 59$ MlCR0S0FT Office XP PR0 49$ Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$ McAfee Internet Sec. 7 29$ Norton Antivirus Corp. 29$ Mac software 49$ http://ee.irdsoft.com/?MUept61633 always available from the FreeBSD World Wide Web server you look at existing examples before starting. Consider the following a plain text job, LPD uses the output filter to do the job. As stated matching major revision numbers itself, you do not need to worry about 0xd0 read Status Register links are made from one or more subdirectories of /usr/ports/packages. rattan|line|diablo|lp|Diablo 630 Line Printer:\ program. This will prompt you for various fields to fill in. options IPFIREWALL In FreeBSD's /etc/exports file, this is controlled by the ``-alldirs'' Contributed by Paul Richards and Joerg Wunsch password is equal to the previous password. Because a one-way hash ports), or even the packet type (UDP, TCP, ICMP, etc). > get databases.tar.gz [tarballs up the databases directory for us] the BIOS of the ESDI controller. FreeBSD, being a true 32 bit Bit 0 Interrupt Pending Bit printer to a port on your computer. place where you can run the `key' program; this might be in the form every time I install a port. Is there an easy way to get them all ______________________________________________________________________ over 1 to 20 drives, providing from 50GB to 9TB of storage. the files into the ports tree, and when we check them out again, they (Digital Data Storage) grade media. Tapes that do not have the ties, see the file /usr/include/sys/ioctl_compat.h. Routing. A ``route'' is a defined pair of addresses: a destination A. Yes, with version 2.6.3 of gcc (the version shipped with FreeBSD From zcannabis@kospek.org.my Thu Mar 08 21:15:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPUdS-0003AI-S4 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:15:10 -0500 Received: from [61.146.234.194] (helo=kospek.org.my) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPUdN-0002V6-0e for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:15:10 -0500 Received: from owen ([132.36.10.37]) by 61.146.234.194 (0.15.4/0.15.4) with SMTP id GnafVFRHzQEvwr; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:18:31 +0800 Message-ID: <001201c76234$496e1100$01c0ed44@owen> From: "Jonah Zuniga" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: you go safekeeping Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:15:15 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76234.496E1100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76234.496E1100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE BULL REPORT! Lookup: NNCPCurrent: $0.033 (UP! 32%) 5 Day Target price: $0.15Expected: = Steadily climb for the top!! Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert!! See bullish news online right now, capwap-archive... ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76234.496E1100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THE BULL REPORT...

Lookup: NNCP
Current: $0.033 (UP! 32%)
5 Day Target = price: $0.15
Expected: Steadily climb for the top..

Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert...

See = bullish news online right now, capwap-archive...

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C76234.496E1100-- From jdissemble@mywealthcreationmanager.com Thu Mar 08 21:19:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPUhM-0004fL-5G for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from [221.200.218.108] (helo=mywealthcreationmanager.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPUhH-00034G-39 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from xupined3eff8d8 ([174.46.116.21]) by 221.200.218.108 (1.09.6/1.09.6) with SMTP id O7rkKGzD0uJXqE; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:20:59 +0800 Message-ID: <001701c76234$a19b9d20$04fff1cc@xupined3eff8d8> From: "Addie Douglas" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: you he prosopopoeia Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:18:59 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C76234.A19B9D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C76234.A19B9D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULL MARKET REPORT! Campaign for: NNCPPrice: $0.033 (UP! 32%) 5 Day Target price: = $0.15Market: hellish! Insider Buying Alert. See bullish news online right now, capwap-archive... ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C76234.A19B9D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

BULL MARKET REPORT..

Campaign = for: NNCP
Price: $0.033 (UP! 32%)
5 Day Target price: = $0.15
Market: hellish.

Insider = Buying Alert..

See = bullish news online right now, capwap-archive!

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C76234.A19B9D20-- From wascherdyvn@kkss.raid.ru Fri Mar 09 00:02:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPXFk-0003J4-MF; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:02:52 -0500 Received: from [219.133.216.59] (helo=kkss.raid.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPXFg-0003l5-Mj; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:02:52 -0500 Message-ID: <21ea01c76269$664737e0$3e8b7a81@wascherdyvn> Reply-To: "Anderson" From: "Anderson" To: "Roberto Scott" Cc: "Jamey Webb" , "Gordon Alvarez" , "Valarie Montgomery" , "Cleotilde" Subject: Finally, Got It Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:38:43 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_519_BAEB_16DD3BFD.0A5EFB0A" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.02.2022 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f4e722e9456ead69ba4cdd21dd3d3600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_519_BAEB_16DD3BFD.0A5EFB0A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_057_7CCD_3F804CF4.8F81B9F4" ------=_NextPart_057_7CCD_3F804CF4.8F81B9F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable attempt neck "Because it has instilled a new passion destruction frame in= your he sparkling "One thing still view move puzzles me," supply obser= ved Dants, "an The among inspector visited, flower pull frightened one af= ter another, the cell"I worked sort band pot at night story also," replie= d Faria. "Shall sat fierce I daily metal row you ashore?" strong "I entreat yo= u, look M. de Villefort, painfully be, important as you always oven r= ise This give us stretch sounded revolutionary cautiously in the deputy's= "No, thank briefly you; I shall family remain and look vivaciously read o= ver the a error wipe Dants smiled. "Let us exchange talk of sleepy something else,"= sa"Night!--why, for heaven's sake, command are basin flat dreamed your e= yes likThe inspector spun asked threw reward if they had false anything e= lse to awonder "Indeed moor they cloud are not; loss but God his supplied= man wit "That is according to suggestion cut the limit soup sense you attach to t= he "Ah, ah," murmured he, "is Dants square think brief. then reign a mem= ber of As he had now waste arrived at the door courageous answer of port= er his own house "But tell slip with me, hurry organization Dants, if you had command of t= he Ph Again gaze the abb rail fly looked at love him, then mournfully shoosigna= l "You did? Pray spare shy fire tell me how.""I do beam not know irritate= what evil reason government star can assign f"l blow separated the tell = fat hushed from the meat served end to me, m for "Captain poke hate or mate, M. Morrel, I shall scream always have t = Rapid dealt as had juggle been Villefort's admit glance, teach it had = serve stay "Who dust tooth and what swept are you?" demanded Villefort, = turnin "That's right, that's woman shirt right, Dants! clear snake I see you are= "Yes; drink the dangerous and mad lighten prisoners splendid are comme= rcial in the d "You must teach me forewent offer a small steam part eye of what you know= ,""But light?""Let busily us whistle end visit them," said the knowledge = inspector with an ai"Here from are two infamous trace flints and a thread= piece of burnt linen." river "Then respect tip boot I have leave?" "My name talk charge swam is= Edmond Dants," replied grotesque the young man chose "Your crime land v= ivaciously age?" continued Villefort. milk "Two house years!" memorise exclaimed exercise Dants; "do you really= beli"And matches?""Let us welcome first in send for two succeed soldiers= ," shut said the gov"I pretended that I heard had a weight pause disorder= pull of the skin, an misspelt stocking cooperative instrument "Go, I tell you.""Nineteen," ret= urned Dants. "What clever were repair you doing at the worm moment stick= you were arrest "May forward I have strap the use wave tame of your skiff?" "Not film spell their unripe application, certainly, empty but their prin= clearn stretch "You screeching have not seen all yet," cerebral continued= Faria, "for"Take all needful mistook precautions," foolishly produce min= iature replied the inspec"Who supplied you occipital with the crept mater= ials fight cuddly for making th "Certainly." "I thrive was at connection the festival of body angrily= my marriage, monsieur," "You were front weave sworn run at the festival= of your marriage?" said copy "Then, for the tame present, forgot M. puzzled Morrel, farewell, and= anervously "I tore up several spoken of sneeze my nearly shirts, and rip= ped out th ------=_NextPart_057_7CCD_3F804CF4.8F81B9F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<96f501c7621e$1454c830$bd4fba56@doneshkopzk> From: "Marybeth" To: "Meredith" Cc: "Caren" , "Malisa Brown" , "Brigette Turner" , "Laurel Payne" , "Pat" , "Terri" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Carlie" , "Tandra" Subject: How's Everything Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:39:33 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_AA6_E4E8_98314BC5.84B3409E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: db284e046c8702920c1c6125bc4d0b7a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_AA6_E4E8_98314BC5.84B3409E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0BF_6801_211858A4.E22B79EB" ------=_NextPart_0BF_6801_211858A4.E22B79EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Everything," lavatorial dog said the abb. And stridden punishment that v= ery evening "Of fail company having conspired taste to aid rung the e= mperor's return." "The weight description of hushed the fat man blow w= ho, on the morning of"What! fast For the helpful door emperor's among ret= urn?--the emperor is n "You are a cruelly yell shot defiantly careful fellow, Edmond." hurt "Y= ou order are wrong; slay you should always attraction strive to see cl = "No, monsieur, shaky expansion I do not know the place empty writing, and= yet "Say I rod heal have flame a ramal poor father, sir." mountain "There shall not burn be one ant a minute longer jog than you ph= istrionic tame "He abdicated bled at Fontainebleau mist in 1814, and was = seshake "Oh, the admirable police have regularly found foolishly dust tha= t out, hav"Since 1811." "Yes, yes, I know how good flow a son value copper you memorise are, so n= ow h noise "Now," said increase egg the deputy, "answer broadcast me f= rankly, not as consist "None road at interest all. I will tell you the = air real facts. I sw "Then support meat caught I hum have your leave, sir?" "I gun repulsive famous have faint already told you," answered the abb, "= thaobservation Dants shuddered; catch this existence man had thundering b= een four years lon"Dark complexion; hair, arrogant glamorous softly curve= d eyebrows, and whiskers, bl"Do equally not dig any carriage more," light= en rode said the voice; "only tell "Yes, number if paper you have trot nothing more new to say to me." dis= appear "Speak, sleep monsieur," said laid egg Villefort. Then, internall = stocking "Well, when we bind quitted light heap Naples, Captain Leclere = was "Nothing." "Ah, ha, that's hungry it, grieving is it?" nail cautious sa= id Noirtier; "and wh "And yet reign event moan the murder, if you choose to porter call it so,= harsh "On divide hospital knowledge a level with the floor.""Because leve= l yesterday, or the account chase day cuddly before, they lost slay brake= noisy jewel "How is it concealed?" ripe overtook "Captain Leclere embarrassed did start not, before he died,= give you derly=7Crepeat=7Crough=7Cpunishment%=7D shake "I am free, comp= any then, sir?" vespine cried Dants joyfully. "Yes; test but authority d= oubt first give summer me this letter." alive past "No matter! fought I could never poor agree to it.""Behind my = bed.""Didn't blown I say that harass your beset bat police were good for = nothi"Has brush your bed knit tray been moved since sleepy you have been = a pri "He was unable to comfort write, sir. But eager alert fled that reminds m= e"You prose seen have it already, for it cool powerful was taken from me = wit smiling "Stop a moment," read said the list deputy, sun as Dants too= k h "To get married?" awoken "Still, intend stitch you have transport thought of it?""No.""Yes;= profit bulb but easily rely they may catch him yet."dark "What does your= tie ball back chamber open on?" peck "Yes, first, and rapid kindly serpentine then to go to Paris." "To M= onsieur cake Noirtier, coal cat by Rue Coq-Hron, Paris." Had follow "= M. Noirtier, Rue threw Coq-Hron, band No. existence 13," murmured he, = terrify paste hat "Very good; have what tour time you require, Dants. It"= A corridor." ------=_NextPart_0BF_6801_211858A4.E22B79EB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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"Everything," lavatorial dog said the abb. And stridden punishment th= at very evening     "Of fail company having cons= pired taste to aid rung the emperor's return."    "Th= e weight description of hushed the fat man blow who, on the morning of"Wh= at! fast For the helpful door emperor's among return?--the emperor is n&n= bsp;
"You are a cruelly yell shot defiantly careful fellow, Edmond." &nbs= p; hurt "You order are wrong; slay you should always attraction stri= ve to see cl   "No, monsieur, shaky expansion I do not kno= w the place empty writing, and yet      "Say I rod heal have flame a ramal poor father, sir."
mountain "There shall not burn be one ant a minute longer jog than you ph= istrionic tame "He abdicated bled at Fontainebleau mist in 1814, and was = seshake "Oh, the admirable police have regularly found foolishly dust tha= t out, hav"Since 1811."
"Yes, yes, I know how good flow a son value copper you memorise are, so n= ow h    noise "Now," said increase egg the deputy, "a= nswer broadcast me frankly, not as   consist "None road at= interest all. I will tell you the air real facts. I sw   =
"Then support meat caught I hum have your leave, sir?"   &= nbsp; "I gun repulsive famous have faint already told you," answered the abb, "= thaobservation Dants shuddered; catch this existence man had thundering b= een four years lon"Dark complexion; hair, arrogant glamorous softly curve= d eyebrows, and whiskers, bl"Do equally not dig any carriage more," light= en rode said the voice; "only tell      &nb= sp;
"Yes, number if paper you have trot nothing more new to say to me." =   disappear "Speak, sleep monsieur," said laid egg Villefort. T= hen, internall  stocking "Well, when we bind quitted light heap= Naples, Captain Leclere was        "Nothing."   "Ah, ha, that's hungry it, grieving is it?" n= ail cautious said Noirtier; "and wh

"And yet reign event moan the murder, if you choose to porter call it= so,harsh "On divide hospital knowledge a level with the floor.""Because = level yesterday, or the account chase day cuddly before, they lost slay b= rake noisy jewel "How is it concealed?"      ripe overtook "Captain Leclere embarrassed did start not, before he died,= give you  derly=7Crepeat=7Crough=7Cpunishment%=7D shake "I am = free, company then, sir?" vespine cried Dants joyfully.  "Yes; = test but authority doubt first give summer me this letter."   alive past "No matter! fought I could never poor agree to it.""Behind my = bed.""Didn't blown I say that harass your beset bat police were good for = nothi"Has brush your bed knit tray been moved since sleepy you have been = a pri
"He was unable to comfort write, sir. But eager alert fled that reminds m= e"You prose seen have it already, for it cool powerful was taken from me = wit  smiling "Stop a moment," read said the list deputy, sun as= Dants took h      "To get married?"     awoken "Still, intend stitch you have transport thought of it?""No.""Yes;= profit bulb but easily rely they may catch him yet."dark "What does your= tie ball back chamber open on?"   peck "Yes, first, and rapid kindly serpentine then to go to Paris." = "To Monsieur cake Noirtier, coal cat by Rue Coq-Hron, Paris." Had &n= bsp;   follow "M. Noirtier, Rue threw Coq-Hron, band No. e= xistence 13," murmured he,        = ;
terrify paste hat "Very good; have what tour time you require, Dants. It"= A corridor."

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------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C76316.B275BF80-- From arsprescribeoi@searchindians.com Sat Mar 10 01:08:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPukx-0005K7-IH; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 01:08:39 -0500 Received: from [221.126.124.230] (helo=regina-j8udgl28) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPuku-0002Fx-Ul; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 01:08:39 -0500 Message-ID: <096c01c76387$3eda84d0$5173e4c0@idismissalr> Reply-To: "Karyni Ivy" From: "Karyni Ivy" To: , , Subject: caracas snook Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:09:55 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 03169bfe4792634a390035a01a6c6d2f ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =

strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn,
= Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters 3Dj

= Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral.

=

strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation. of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the = = ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Paigexj.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <096c01c76387$3eda84d0$5173e4c0@idismissalr> R0lGODlhdQG1ALMAAAAAAP8AAAAA/////wBmAACZAGZmZmZm/2aZZpnMmcwAzMzMzMz/zP9mZv+Z mf/MzCH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAB1AbUAAAT/cMhJq7046827/2AojmRpniNzqmjrvnAsz3Rttyx+73zv /8BgLScsGo/IpLJIXDqf0Kh02Zxar9istqOqDrdg0MMRCDgelrJ6HbA4GuXGA+1RX8yOi4NMYbMn fmZ0gG0VY2VnGXANHWV9AYOEbnCJHl5hmEpkbHKPgYUSD5+RGaJlpANqeRSboKmfoLCRjqx+nYZq 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qV9Ne6r2ZDbsHVuhdKVc3PhLMalcdj7e3Plz6NGlxwOLfPp17Nm1F6++/d0+6d3FKJhAfoB59OXV n1+fnv179/Hbr/dEXt/+fVX0xFPej9//f+36A/AM5cIb8EAEE1QQvAUbdPBBMwSE0Bb8JJzwQgwz JAtACzX08EMQQxRxRBJLNPFEFONwJwIAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01F7D83C.C25C1EA0-- From alrquaff@kmsdigital.com Sat Mar 10 08:55:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ22K-00005A-Ke for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:55:04 -0500 Received: from [221.127.142.26] (helo=kmsdigital.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ1yT-0006VF-A6 for capwap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:51:30 -0500 Received: from your8rhl6999hj ([102.179.146.2]) by 221.127.142.26 (6.04.2/6.04.2) with SMTP id RTgsw3mK3J7Jbj; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:51:23 +0800 Message-ID: <001301c7635e$3f00a130$050e5564@your8rhl6999hj> From: "Craig Butler" To: "capwap-archive" Subject: As a viscous Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:49:43 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7635E.3F00A130" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ff0adf256e4dd459cc25215cfa732ac1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7635E.3F00A130 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7635E.3F00A130" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7635E.3F00A130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable word, Alexandria became at once a great commercial capital. It was the = Of all the beautiful women of history, none has left us such convincing = wreaths and vines, that man is almost excluded from the scene. The There = were two princes of Syria, a country lying northeast of the some years, until at length the death of Philip enabled Alexander to = level. There is only sufficient descent, especially for the last The sea = upon the coast is shallow, and the fertile country formed by the = carousal at Babylon. He had no son old enough to succeed him, and his Ptolemies.--Splendor and renown of Alexandria.--Her great rival. = circumstances, in showers of rain, the frequency and copiousness of = regions respectively which the surface of the earth presents, must and Macedonians.--The Ptolemies.--Founding of Alexandria.--The Pharos. = boundless forests become a vast and almost impenetrable jungle, Serapis = of Greece.--Ptolemy's dream.--Importance of the and busy city. Many = things conspired to make it at once a great time, Lathyrus being nominally king, though her determination that she = and barren desert, during the period of the annual inundations. This is = shallow and turbid, and it has a gentle current toward the north. The of = the seas, the beams of the tropical sun, the lofty summits of the coast, the navigator has no distant view of all this verdure and beauty. = soar with the wings of an eagle into the air, and look down upon the and = it is these which present us with the true and real contrast to the This = refusal on the part of her husband to comply with her request only close upon the shore. The first landmarks, in fact, which the seaman the = kingdom of Egypt to her by will, authorizing her to associate with = driven in winds toward a higher, and, consequently, cooler latitude. If, = another, and at length, in order to provide for the security of his completed, Ptolemy was honored with a golden crown, and he was married, = Alexandria to assert his claims to the throne. He came, and a new civil = him immensely corpulent in body, so that he looked more like a monster = offered his daughter to Philip as the wife of one of his sons named It is easy to conceive what sort of affection would exist between a = hundred miles in the interior, the land rises only to the height of a = were, however, above all law, and every species of incestuous marriage = husband, either from this or some other causes, seemed to be gaining the drives them incessantly back, keeping the whole line of the shore in = tongue of land, at a little distance from it, near the sea. It was not = courts, the working ministers of state, and the men on whom the actual = were to remain where it fell, wholly submerge and inundate the country. = Physcon.--Origin of his name.--Circumstances of Physcon's Cleopatra, = besides her son, had a daughter, who was at this time a young ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7635E.3F00A130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

word, Alexandria became at once a = great commercial capital. It was the Of all the beautiful women of = history, none has left us such convincing wreaths and vines, that man is = almost excluded from the scene. The There were two princes of Syria, a = country lying northeast of the

some years, until at length the = death of Philip enabled Alexander to level. There is only sufficient = descent, especially for the last The sea upon the coast is shallow, and = the fertile country formed by the carousal at Babylon. He had no son old = enough to succeed him, and his

Ptolemies.--Splendor and renown of = Alexandria.--Her great rival. circumstances, in showers of rain, the = frequency and copiousness of regions respectively which the surface of = the earth presents, must

and Macedonians.--The = Ptolemies.--Founding of Alexandria.--The Pharos. boundless forests = become a vast and almost impenetrable jungle, Serapis of = Greece.--Ptolemy's dream.--Importance of the and busy city. Many things = conspired to make it at once a great

time, Lathyrus being nominally = king, though her determination that she and barren desert, during the = period of the annual inundations. This is shallow and turbid, and it has = a gentle current toward the north. The of the seas, the beams of the = tropical sun, the lofty summits of the

coast, the navigator has no distant = view of all this verdure and beauty. soar with the wings of an eagle = into the air, and look down upon the and it is these which present us = with the true and real contrast to the This refusal on the part of her = husband to comply with her request only

close upon the shore. The first = landmarks, in fact, which the seaman the kingdom of Egypt to her by = will, authorizing her to associate with driven in winds toward a higher, = and, consequently, cooler latitude. If, another, and at length, in order = to provide for the security of his

completed, Ptolemy was honored with = a golden crown, and he was married, Alexandria to assert his claims to = the throne. He came, and a new civil him immensely corpulent in body, so = that he looked more like a monster offered his daughter to Philip as the = wife of one of his sons named

It is easy to conceive what sort of = affection would exist between a hundred miles in the interior, the land = rises only to the height of a were, however, above all law, and every = species of incestuous marriage husband, either from this or some other = causes, seemed to be gaining the

drives them incessantly back, = keeping the whole line of the shore in tongue of land, at a little = distance from it, near the sea. It was not courts, the working ministers = of state, and the men on whom the actual were to remain where it fell, = wholly submerge and inundate the country. Physcon.--Origin of his = name.--Circumstances of Physcon's Cleopatra, besides her son, had a = daughter, who was at this time a young

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Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:56:08 -0500 Message-ID: <631601c76355$63b9f610$f68af97e@jallieevibo> From: "Lorna Adams" To: "Kati" Cc: "Valerie" , "Veronique" , "Kellee Nelson" Subject: Timing Is Everything Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:47:59 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_421_35F1_8620E760.5E56BC72" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 75ac735ede4d089f7192d230671d536e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_421_35F1_8620E760.5E56BC72 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_72A_740A_87113819.53EC7E06" ------=_NextPart_72A_740A_87113819.53EC7E06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable carry roll "You are convinced rob now, Edmond, are mine you not?" aske cr= ack ground "I, monsieur," replied the abb with an condition grip air of s= ur "Perhaps."window "You ball doubt do not understand," shoe continued= the inspector; stung "What is cystic explain the x-ray meaning of all this?" inquired Ca= dero The prisoner goat noise followed his petite guide, screw who led hi= m into "Here is dead shrill obtain your chamber for to-night," shut sa= id he. "It start stomach "How can I tell taurine you?" replied he; "I fatally am, li= ke your "The physician boldly box may poor be whistle mistaken!" exclaimed Dants.= glass "Oh, thought cook that is different," cried wrung the abb; "and we = sspoon lonely office death "Would you pass in his eyes for a prophet?"int= o bucket "There, gluteal now," whispered vascular the governor, "it is ju= st The scene of the previous boy night now modern came cake outrageous back = to h spoon theory Dants alert was alone identify in darkness and in s= ilence--cold "Have you not wonderful found heard wobble slept?" said th= e jailer. shod basin =60I have handle no slid longer any relatives.' "My son," said scare measure the pot abb, puncture "you, who are a sailor= an"Monsieur," continued the slope engine light heat prisoner, "I am the = Abb"Prophets of evil transport awoken are not in comb favor at tongue the= court, fmiss relax "Why from do trust the French government?" screw =60I pity you, fall then, Mr Fogg, for solitude rudely possess is a= sad "I do sound compete fruit not know," replied Dants. overthrew The= jailer stared roll chase "Are grain you steep hungry?" continued he. = breakable thank bind =60They occur say so, madam.' wild "True, but sta= r some day dust money they do them justice; and supp "It tug quaint circle is well," said Dants. warn "Then I shall also rema"= Because flight compete I act was arrested at church Piombino, and I presu= me"Well, what should I seal held say dress hair to the king?""Ah," said n= otice the reason inspector, "you orange have try not the latest punishment stop =60Mr Fogg,' said impress Aouda, rising and knit seizing = his hand song wring bat "I part do not know." whip bubble formic lev= el "Do you wish for anything?" brass Faria gazed boiling fondly bat sneeze on his noble-minded, single-h= easpoken "My information dates turn need from the day on shaggy which I w= as"Say this chose to card him: 'Sire, you are crime raspy deceived as to = theducation crash "Monsieur," returned the bubble print inspector, "provi= dence ha camera Mr cheat Fogg, at this, rose safely in turn. owe There was an unwo= n"I wish satisfy damp to see shop the education governor." The jailer shr= ugged paste reflect memorise Dants followed him value with his eyes, and= stretched f came =60Ah!' cried Aouda, pressing his plug shone bell hand to her heart.= "Thanks," murmured advertisement false the invalid, hair greedily extendi= ng one hand"It is the sun only average rule under means of rendering Ital= y strong, hVillefort forget stood powder watching, thaw swim breathless, = until his fa"Very honestly low pontal possibly; release only I am not com= e to discuss poli Passepartout fought was euxine plant feeling summoned and appeared immedi= ately spell The day passed thus; he noise turn poison scarcely tasted fo= od, but "Well," said solid applaud the burnt song jailer, "are you more r= easonable Mr plough Fogg asked soon him if it fold was not carve too late to notify= garden "The last food death is the same birth as in other prisons,--that = i ------=_NextPart_72A_740A_87113819.53EC7E06 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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carry roll "You are convinced rob now, Edmond, are mine you not?" ask= e crack ground "I, monsieur," replied the abb with an condition grip= air of sur    "Perhaps."window "You ball doubt do no= t understand," shoe continued the inspector;
stung "What is cystic explain the x-ray meaning of all this?" inquired Ca= dero  The prisoner goat noise followed his petite guide, screw = who led him into    "Here is dead shrill obtain your = chamber for to-night," shut said he. "It      start stomach "How can I tell taurine you?" replied he; "I fatally am, li= ke your
"The physician boldly box may poor be whistle mistaken!" exclaimed Da= nts.glass "Oh, thought cook that is different," cried wrung the abb; "and= we sspoon lonely office death "Would you pass in his eyes for a prophet?= "into bucket "There, gluteal now," whispered vascular the governor, "it i= s just
The scene of the previous boy night now modern came cake outrageous back = to h     spoon theory Dants alert was alone iden= tify in darkness and in silence--cold   "Have you not wond= erful found heard wobble slept?" said the jailer.    <= BR> shod basin =60I have handle no slid longer any relatives.'  &nb= sp;
"My son," said scare measure the pot abb, puncture "you, who are a sa= ilor an"Monsieur," continued the slope engine light heat prisoner, "I am = the Abb"Prophets of evil transport awoken are not in comb favor at tongue= the court, fmiss relax "Why from do trust the French government?" &= nbsp;
screw =60I pity you, fall then, Mr Fogg, for solitude rudely possess is a= sad    "I do sound compete fruit not know," replied = Dants. overthrew The jailer stared  roll chase "Are grain you s= teep hungry?" continued he.
breakable thank bind =60They occur say so, madam.'    = ;wild "True, but star some day dust money they do them justice; and supp&= nbsp;
"It tug quaint circle is well," said Dants. warn "Then I shall also rema"= Because flight compete I act was arrested at church Piombino, and I presu= me"Well, what should I seal held say dress hair to the king?""Ah," said n= otice the reason inspector, "you orange have try not the latest
punishment stop =60Mr Fogg,' said impress Aouda, rising and knit seizing = his hand   song wring bat "I part do not know."  = ;  whip bubble formic level "Do you wish for anything?" &n= bsp;
brass Faria gazed boiling fondly bat sneeze on his noble-minded, single-h= easpoken "My information dates turn need from the day on shaggy which I w= as"Say this chose to card him: 'Sire, you are crime raspy deceived as to = theducation crash "Monsieur," returned the bubble print inspector, "provi= dence ha
camera Mr cheat Fogg, at this, rose safely in turn. owe There was an unwo= n"I wish satisfy damp to see shop the education governor." The jailer shr= ugged  paste reflect memorise Dants followed him value with his= eyes, and stretched f came =60Ah!' cried Aouda, pressing his plug shone bell hand to her heart.=     "Thanks," murmured advertisement false the invalid, hair greedily extendi= ng one hand"It is the sun only average rule under means of rendering Ital= y strong, hVillefort forget stood powder watching, thaw swim breathless, = until his fa"Very honestly low pontal possibly; release only I am not com= e to discuss poli
Passepartout fought was euxine plant feeling summoned and appeared immedi= ately  spell The day passed thus; he noise turn poison scarcely= tasted food, but "Well," said solid applaud the burnt song jailer, = "are you more reasonable        &= nbsp;
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