From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Sun Aug 1 12:47:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5211C3A6907 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...ve@lists.ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -80%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HOST_EQ_DHCP=1.295, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNSUB38D=0.642, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rCBkXure+gRU for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 12:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from in-184-1-126-121.dhcp.embarqhsd.net (in-184-1-126-121.dhcp.embarqhsd.net [184.1.126.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BF93A689F for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 12:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -80% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100801194706.23BF93A689F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 12:47:06 -0700 (PDT)
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Please submit any and all critiques or comments to the openpub mailing list (http://groups.google.com/group/openpub) or add an issue (http://code.google.com/p/openpub/issues/entry) by 17 August 2010. What are OPDS Catalogs? OPDS stands for "Open Publication Distribution System" and OPDS Catalogs enable the aggregation, distribution, and discovery of books, journals, and other digital content by any user, from any source, in any electronic format, on any device. The OPDS Catalogs specification is based on the Atom syndication format and prioritizes simplicity and speed. On 25 May 2010, version 0.9 the OPDS Catalog specification was published: http://opds-spec.org/specs/opds-catalog-0-9 Today, OPDS Catalogs power a lot of existing, in-production software and collaboration between ebook reading systems, publishers, and distributors. Feedbooks, for example, already distributes more than 2 million ebooks every month using its OPDS Catalogs (http://feedbooks.com/catalog.atom) and ebook readers like Aldiko, Stanza, QuickReader, FBReader, Ibis Reader, and others already support the evolving specification. Publishers and libraries have been early adopters of the OPDS Catalogs as the specification has evolved toward 1.0. OPDS Catalogs are the first component in the Internet Archive’s BookServer Project (http://www.archive.org/bookserver). Thanks for your feedback, Keith Fahlgren & the openpub community From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Sat Aug 7 20:57:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C5E28C150 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -81.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-81.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FhY1DBFGk3D3 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3-139-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net (3-139-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.135.139.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EC028C147 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org 34% OFF on Pfizer! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100808035723.90EC028C147@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:23 -0700 (PDT) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tezeripickartt/message ben der Trager einer hoheren Ethik darstellt; denn in einer verbastardierten und verengerten Welt waren auch alle Begriffe des menschlich Schonen und Erhabenen sowie alle Vorstellungen einer idealisierten Zukunft unseres Menschentums fur immer verloren. Das Untergraben des Bestandes der menschlichen Kultur durch Vernichtung ihres Tragers aber erscheint in den Augen einer volkischen Weltanschauung als das fluchwurdigste Verbrechen. Wer die Hand an das hochste Ebenbild des Herrn zu legen wagt, frevelt am gutigen Schopfer dieses Wunders und hilft mit an der Vertreibung aus dem Paradies. {422 Forderung des freien Kraftespiels} Damit entspricht die volkische Weltanschauung dem innersten Wollen der Natur, da sie jenes freie Spiel der Krafte wiederherstellt, das zu einer dauernden gegenseitigen Hoherzuchtung fuhren mu., bis endlich dem besten Menschentum, durch den erworbenen Besitz dieser Erde, frei From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Sat Aug 7 20:57:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB66528C151 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -81.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-81.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a7TB2dP+V8ge for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3-139-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net (3-139-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.135.139.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B6828C14F for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org 34% OFF on Pfizer! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100808035723.91B6828C14F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:57:23 -0700 (PDT) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tezeripickartt/message ben der Trager einer hoheren Ethik darstellt; denn in einer verbastardierten und verengerten Welt waren auch alle Begriffe des menschlich Schonen und Erhabenen sowie alle Vorstellungen einer idealisierten Zukunft unseres Menschentums fur immer verloren. Das Untergraben des Bestandes der menschlichen Kultur durch Vernichtung ihres Tragers aber erscheint in den Augen einer volkischen Weltanschauung als das fluchwurdigste Verbrechen. Wer die Hand an das hochste Ebenbild des Herrn zu legen wagt, frevelt am gutigen Schopfer dieses Wunders und hilft mit an der Vertreibung aus dem Paradies. {422 Forderung des freien Kraftespiels} Damit entspricht die volkische Weltanschauung dem innersten Wollen der Natur, da sie jenes freie Spiel der Krafte wiederherstellt, das zu einer dauernden gegenseitigen Hoherzuchtung fuhren mu., bis endlich dem besten Menschentum, durch den erworbenen Besitz dieser Erde, frei From seanbowler@eircom.net Tue Aug 10 14:45:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA24D28C0E8 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.582 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, MISSING_SUBJECT=1.762, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jT1dyx2QAkQ for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail16.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail16.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B4EF728C0EF for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3501 messnum 3240648 invoked from network[213.94.190.15/avas03.vendorsvc.cra.dublin.eircom.net]); 10 Aug 2010 21:45:36 -0000 Received: from avas03.vendorsvc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (213.94.190.15) by mail16.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 3501) with SMTP; 10 Aug 2010 21:45:36 -0000 Received: from webmailbox103.eircom.net ([86.43.60.63]) by avas03.vendorsvc.cra.dublin.eircom.net with Cloudmark Gateway id slkZ1e00e1Mrcdi01lkcyH; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:44:36 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:44:33 +0100 (IST) From: Western Union Reply-To: "wu.africa@w.cn" Message-ID: <17264375.203971281476673345.JavaMail.root@webmailbox103.eircom.net> Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [41.138.186.177] X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.21_GA_3151.RHEL4 (zclient/5.0.21_GA_3151.RHEL4) To: undisclosed-recipients:; Congrat...You won $50,000USD,confirm mail by sending your name,address,age,Occupation,Country,phone number etc to(wu.africa@w.cn) From bananas9@60north.net Wed Aug 11 09:49:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381B928C0F1; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:49:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -80.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-80.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_STATICB=1.372, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_06=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55RHvM0bmSMh; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from static-173-55-1-158.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net (static-173-55-1-158.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [173.55.1.158]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E526628C0E9; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.55.1.158 by ; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:49:28 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01cb3975$29abe880$6400a8c0@bananas9> From: "Snapfish" To: Subject: Important dates, impressive savings - calendars up to 60% off! 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Mr.Kelvin Lambert, konsultant ogólne From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Aug 22 18:39:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203723A6978 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:39:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.938 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.938 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, SARE_OBFU_SPLIT_HR2=0.183] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7N4erx2Qvleh for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B826A3A681E for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7N1Am10018862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7N1AmCV018861; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qy0-f171.google.com (mail-qy0-f171.google.com [209.85.216.171]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7N1Ajfw018855 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30so2449183qyk.16 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=grtswoU8G0CbLQ7BqRwPYmp6k5g8VMubQQh75hoW7D8=; b=SbLdLatfUP0aKVxhV7yGjBcmmOx/4KC9tYf5gK9goq6SQStsLyBU1QpnXg3R1NLtWW iyg9F8yHvlsDwJUdM1XCu7hdoGBVE13KzRmXHsFCeM3VJguQHwY2u37spVq+OUunvREd eZxcFeCAFfPWE7D/BMqoP0GPYKQ4suO4i4bL4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=QZn93sG1nZtSYIaWKa+AcVQCL6q5vvaCS8V91J6FnTM5jNjOsrGUflxUK99VeCzG4a 9mum1jt6HZp++aAynSzKj0SoDxVsbq/3ecWwU0+c0HQ6TGjfdahzgEvlA/MqWQYTKxv3 nxuIVcFg5mRSDQQ/+7jJMi40IdSSd8wQcQgLM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.191.135 with SMTP id dm7mr3097996qcb.29.1282525844833; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.97.15 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BF286BB.7090708@oracle.com> <1B899E67-A684-4120-8925-754CEB27241D@o-micron.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or some kind of hash.) From: James Snell To: Pablo Castro Cc: Nikunj Mehta , Colm Divilly , "nrmehtais@gmail.com" , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163628452c6587f8048e7351df Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --00163628452c6587f8048e7351df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok... finally was able to get back to this... We have a couple of very real world use cases for this already... http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-snell-atompub-inline-00 This is a very rough beginning. Similar in nature to draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 but allows for embedding arbitrary content types= . I'm certain there's a bunch more work to do on this but it's a start On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Pablo Castro wrote: > +1. We've been doing a very similar thing in OData (Astoria) for a while. > We've used as custom element () in a custom namespace inside > for now because there wasn't anything standard. For example > (trimmed down version, full version here: > http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles?$top=3D2&$expand=3DCast&$filter= =3DReleaseYeareq 1980): > > > http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('13WZu') > Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon Lescaut</ti= tle> > <summary type=3D"html">Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan Ope= ra > presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, directed by Gian Carlo > Menotti, the title character (<a href=3D" > http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647">Renata > Scotto</a>) escapes from a French convent and runs away with a poor > student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young <a href=3D" > http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475">Placido > Domingo</a>). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elde= rly > lover; however, her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with > her.</summary> > <published>2009-10-07T05:06:22Z</published> > <updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated> > <author> > <name /> > </author> > <link m:etag=3D""10/7/2009 5:06:22 AM"" rel=3D"edit-media" > title=3D"Title" href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/$value" /> > <link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Title" href=3D"Titles('13WZu')" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/AudioFormat= s" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"AudioFormats" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/AudioFormats" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Awards" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Disc" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Disc" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Disc" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Movie" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Movie" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Movie" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Season" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Season" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Season" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Series" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Series" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Series" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/ScreenForma= ts" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"ScreenFormats" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/ScreenFormats" /> > <link rel=3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Cast" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Cast" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Cast"> > <m:inline> > <feed> > <title type=3D"text">Cast > http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('13WZu')/Cast > 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z > > > http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People(83647) > Renata Scotto > 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z > > > > > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" > href=3D"People(83647)/Awards" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActed= In" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesActedIn" > href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesActedIn" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesDirected" > href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesDirected" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> > > > 83647 > Renata Scotto > > > > > http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People(30005475) > Pl=E1cido Domingo > 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z > > > > > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" > href=3D"People(30005475)/Awards" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActed= In" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesActedIn" > href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesActedIn" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesDirected" > href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesDirected" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> > > > 30005475 > Pl=E1cido Domingo > > > > > > > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Languages" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Languages" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Languages" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Directors" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Directors" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Directors" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Genres" > type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Genres" > href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Genres" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> > http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jpg" /> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/metadata" xmlns:d= =3D" > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices"> > 13WZu > Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan Opera presen= ts > Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, directed by Gian Carlo Menotti, > the title character (<a href=3D" > http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647">Renata > Scotto</a>) escapes from a French convent and runs away with a poor > student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young <a href=3D" > http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475">Placido > Domingo</a>). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elde= rly > lover; however, her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with > her. > 8040 > 3.3 > 1980 > > http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Metropolitan_Opera_G._Puccini_Manon_Lescaut/= 5616554 > > NR > Movie > Metropolitan Opera: Puccini > Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon Lescaut > http://movi.es/13WZu > > http://api.netflix.com/catalog/titles/movies/5616554 > > > http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/tiny/5616554.jpg > > http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/small/5616554.jp= g > > http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jpg > > > > > false > m:null=3D"true"> > > m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false > > > false > m:null=3D"true"> > > > > false > m:null=3D"true"> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto: > owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of James Snell > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:50 PM > To: Nikunj Mehta > Cc: Colm Divilly; nrmehtais@gmail.com; Atom-Syntax > Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or some kind = of > hash.) > > > Non-Atom type support, I think, is definitely important. I also urge > you to consider defining the element so that it is a part of the Atom > namespace. Explosion and management of extension namespaces is going > to become a significant problem as time goes on, we need to establish > good practices for it now. > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Nikunj Mehta > wrote: > > I can brush up the I-D and add the non-Atom type support, which was > contemplated but waiting for more interest to be put in. > > > > Nikunj > > On May 18, 2010, at 5:23 AM, Colm Divilly wrote: > > > >> James Snell wrote: > >>> Another change that I am contemplating making is introducing a new > >>> child element for the atom:link element that would allow it to serve > >>> the same basic purpose as the GData feedLink and entryLink elements > >>> except with greater flexibility... specifically, it would allow a > >>> representation of the linked resource to be dropped directly into the > >>> link element, e.g. > >>> > >>> > >>> this is a representation of the data > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> abc...def=3D=3D > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Or something along those lines. > >>> > >>> Thoughts? > >>> > >>> > >> +1, I think this is really important, Whenever I am designing resource= s, > I am always finding myself having to make a choice about whether to inlin= e > related content in the resource or include a hyper link to the related > content. Having a consistent pattern for doing this would be beneficial. > >> > >> As an aside, if this approach was possible, then one could re-imagine > the atom:content element as simply .... > >> > >> Nikunj Mehta has an unpublished draft of Atom Inline Extensions that > proposes the same as what you propose [1] (the last published draft > restricted the inline content types to atom resources only [2]), Nikunj > care to weigh in? > >> > >> There was some discussion about this a while back: [3] > >> > >> [1] > http://atom-ext.googlecode.com/svn-history/r9/trunk/draft-mehta-atom-inli= ne.xml > >> [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-atom-inline-01#section-2.1.= 1 > >> [3] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/threads.html#21203 > >> > > > > > > > > -- > - James Snell > http://www.snellspace.com > jasnell@gmail.com > > > --=20 - James Snell http://www.snellspace.com jasnell@gmail.com --00163628452c6587f8048e7351df Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok... finally was able to get back to this... We have a couple of very real= world use cases for this already...


This is a very rough beginning. Similar in nature to dr= aft-mehta-atom-inline-01 but allows for embedding arbitrary content types. = I'm certain there's a bunch more work to do on this but it's a = start

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Pablo Cast= ro <Pabl= o.Castro@microsoft.com> wrote:
+1. We've been doing a very similar thing in OData (Astoria) for a whil= e. We've used as custom element (<inline>) in a custom namespace = inside <atom:link> for now because there wasn't anything standard= . For example (trimmed down version, full version here: http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles?$top= =3D2&$expand=3DCast&$filter=3DReleaseYear eq 1980):

=A0<entry m:etag=3D"W/&quot;datetime'2009-10-07T05%3A06%3A= 22'&quot;">
=A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('= 13WZu')</id>
=A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini= : Manon Lescaut</title>
=A0 =A0<summary type=3D"html">Conducted by James Levine, t= he Metropolitan Opera presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In = this opera, directed by Gian Carlo Menotti, the title character (&lt;a = href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/836= 47"&gt;Renata Scotto&lt;/a&gt;) escapes from a French = convent and runs away with a poor student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a youn= g &lt;a href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/= Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475"&gt;Placido Domingo&lt;/a&gt;= ). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elderly lover; however,= her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with her.</summary>
=A0 =A0<published>2009-10-07T05:06:22Z</published>
=A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>
=A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0<link m:etag=3D"&quot;10/7/2009 5:06:22 AM&quot;&qu= ot; rel=3D"edit-media" title=3D"Title" href=3D"Tit= les('13WZu')/$value" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Title" href=3D&q= uot;Titles('13WZu')" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.m= icrosoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/AudioFormats" type= =3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"AudioFormats&= quot; href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/AudioFormats" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" href=3D"T= itles('13WZu')/Awards" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft= .com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Disc" type=3D"applicati= on/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Disc" href=3D"Titles= ('13WZu')/Disc" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsof= t.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Movie" type=3D"applica= tion/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Movie" href=3D"Tit= les('13WZu')/Movie" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Season" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Season" href=3D"= Titles('13WZu')/Season" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Series" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Series" href=3D"= Titles('13WZu')/Series" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.= microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/ScreenFormats" type= =3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"ScreenFormats= " href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/ScreenFormats" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft= .com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Cast" type=3D"applicati= on/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Cast" href=3D"Titles(= '13WZu')/Cast">
=A0 =A0 =A0<m:inline>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<feed>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Cast</title>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/cat= alog/Titles('13WZu')/Cast</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"self" title=3D"Cast"= ; href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Cast" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People= (83647)</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Renata Scotto&= lt;/title>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Perso= n" href=3D"People(83647)" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http:/= /schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards"= ; href=3D"People(83647)/Awards" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActedI= n" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&qu= ot;TitlesActedIn" href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesActedIn" />=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&= quot;TitlesDirected" href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesDirected" /= >
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Person"= scheme=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/da= taservices/scheme" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<content type=3D"application/xml"><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">= 83647</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Renata Scotto</d:Name><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</content>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Peo= ple(30005475)</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Pl=E1cido Domi= ngo</title>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Perso= n" href=3D"People(30005475)" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http:/= /schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards"= ; href=3D"People(30005475)/Awards" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActedI= n" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&qu= ot;TitlesActedIn" href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesActedIn" /&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&= quot;TitlesDirected" href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesDirected"= ; />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Person"= scheme=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/da= taservices/scheme" />
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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">= 30005475</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Pl=E1cido Domingo</d:Name&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</content>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</feed>
=A0 =A0 =A0</m:inline>
=A0 =A0</link>
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.micr= osoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Languages" type=3D"= ;application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Languages" href= =3D"Titles('13WZu')/Languages" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.micr= osoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Directors" type=3D"= ;application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Directors" href= =3D"Titles('13WZu')/Directors" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Genres" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Genres" href=3D"T= itles('13WZu')/Genres" />
=A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Title" scheme=3D"<= a href=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" tar= get=3D"_blank">http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme= " />
=A0 =A0<content type=3D"image/jpeg" src=3D"htt= p://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jpg" />
=A0 =A0<m:properties xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.m= icrosoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/metadata" xmlns:d=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices"><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id>13WZu</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Synopsis>Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan O= pera presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, direc= ted by Gian Carlo Menotti, the title character (&lt;a href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647"&= gt;Renata Scotto&lt;/a&gt;) escapes from a French convent and runs = away with a poor student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young &lt;a href= =3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/= 30005475"&gt;Placido Domingo&lt;/a&gt;). Manon eventua= lly leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elderly lover; however, her heart is to= rn when des Grieux catches up with her.</d:Synopsis>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Runtime m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">8040</d:Runt= ime>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:AverageRating m:type=3D"Edm.Double">3.3</= d:AverageRating>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:ReleaseYear m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">1980</d:= ReleaseYear>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Url>http://www.net= flix.com/Movie/Metropolitan_Opera_G._Puccini_Manon_Lescaut/5616554</= d:Url>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Rating>NR</d:Rating>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Type>Movie</d:Type>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:ShortName>Metropolitan Opera: Puccini</d:ShortName&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon Lescaut<= /d:Name>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:TinyUrl>http://movi.es/13WZu</d:TinyUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:WebsiteUrl m:null=3D"true"></d:WebsiteUrl= >
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:NetflixApiId>http://api.netflix.com/catalog/ti= tles/movies/5616554</d:NetflixApiId>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:BoxArt m:type=3D"NetflixModel.BoxArt">
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:SmallUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxs= hots/tiny/5616554.jpg</d:SmallUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:MediumUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/bo= xshots/small/5616554.jpg</d:MediumUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:LargeUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/box= shots/large/5616554.jpg</d:LargeUrl>
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=A0 =A0 =A0</d:BoxArt>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Instant m:type=3D"NetflixModel.InstantAvailability&q= uot;>
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=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Dvd m:type=3D"NetflixModel.DeliveryFormatAvailabilit= y">
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=A0 =A0 =A0</d:Dvd>
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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Available m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false&l= t;/d:Available>
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=A0 =A0 =A0</d:BluRay>
=A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0</entry>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@m= ail.imc.org [mailto:o= wner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of James Snell
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:50 PM
To: Nikunj Mehta
Cc: Colm Divilly; nrmehtais@gmail.co= m; Atom-Syntax
Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or so= me kind of hash.)


Non-Atom type support, I think, is definitely important. I also urge
you to consider defining the element so that it is a part of the Atom
namespace. Explosion and management of extension namespaces is going
to become a significant problem as time goes on, we need to establish
good practices for it now.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Nikunj Mehta <nikunj@o-micron.com> wrote:
> I can brush up the I-D and add the non-Atom type support, which was co= ntemplated but waiting for more interest to be put in.
>
> Nikunj
> On May 18, 2010, at 5:23 AM, Colm Divilly wrote:
>
>> James Snell wrote:
>>> Another change that I am contemplating making is introducing a= new
>>> child element for the atom:link element that would allow it to= serve
>>> the same basic purpose as the GData feedLink and entryLink ele= ments
>>> except with greater flexibility... specifically, it would allo= w a
>>> representation of the linked resource to be dropped directly i= nto the
>>> link element, e.g.
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"text/plain">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"text">this is a representatio= n of the data</data>
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"image/jpeg">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"encoded">abc...def=3D=3D</= data> <!-- base64 -->
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"markup">
>>> =A0 =A0<feed>...</feed>
>>> =A0</data>
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> Or something along those lines.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>> +1, I think this is really important, Whenever I am designing reso= urces, I am always finding myself having to make a choice about whether to = inline related content in the resource or include a hyper link to the relat= ed content. Having a consistent pattern for doing this would be beneficial.=
>>
>> As an aside, if this approach was possible, then one could re-imag= ine the atom:content element as simply <link rel=3D"content"&g= t;...</link>.
>>
>> Nikunj Mehta has an unpublished draft of Atom Inline Extensions th= at proposes the same as what you propose [1] (the last published draft rest= ricted the inline content types to atom resources only [2]), =A0Nikunj care= to weigh in?
>>
>> There was some discussion about this a while back: [3]
>>
>> [1] http://atom-ext.googlecode.= com/svn-history/r9/trunk/draft-mehta-atom-inline.xml
>> [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-= atom-inline-01#section-2.1.1
>> [3] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/= threads.html#21203
>>
>
>



--
- James Snell
=A0http://www.snel= lspace.com
=A0jasnell@gmail.com





--
- James Sne= ll
=A0 http://www.snellspace.com
=A0 jasnell@gmail.com
--00163628452c6587f8048e7351df-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Aug 22 19:18:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A9E3A697A for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.56 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, SARE_OBFU_SPLIT_HR2=0.183] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFbB9QsqTKtz for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E553A6403 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7N2AsIk021252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7N2AsQ6021251; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com (mail-bw0-f43.google.com [209.85.214.43]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7N2AqWa021244 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com) Received: by bwz16 with SMTP id 16so4724274bwz.16 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=I0c8aGSt6a8u5eTVlCkhaQrURQElakZ9PbZMOj6zwho=; b=CeV9kfoyYzi/GPPPhO3PohQiB5gzyxbnoI8tktrET7Z2tSLwuX0CurYk7efbWArqW4 cp28ciuTu3Ttx2/f0dQyo392u6f3VSoA7CxLSKdqwtABJ4cUI4+0x/KnVYVA5vohgN5S +EIHwNw5H4arGnNxQ0JJE8h0YjSb0J0uPL5sI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=l1L1V/RNVmHUPmCdelIKg1vkivSWSemFZAwKLhqR8fPmR7CHhuP14dx+nq5NV6JAA2 2oRm+wLqylUcUlLR5PrBu9cv9HG0McYKg+EXNsAbC1VdvRJJeMvHIZ6aFQ/ujunypdsQ vfZpsQoh3Bji5TMBqUSyJr5DsPg//rogaNCDM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.23.77 with SMTP id q13mr2921734bkb.191.1282529451329; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.18.69 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BF286BB.7090708@oracle.com> <1B899E67-A684-4120-8925-754CEB27241D@o-micron.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:10:51 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lTSCxRDqK8k68j8_fPKyCpjg5_4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or some kind of hash.) From: Bob Wyman To: James Snell Cc: Pablo Castro , Nikunj Mehta , Colm Divilly , "nrmehtais@gmail.com" , Atom-Syntax , John Panzer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255584e25c4a45048e7428de Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0003255584e25c4a45048e7428de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems to me that the goals and mechanisms of the in-lining spec are very similar to those of the "Magic Envelope" which is defined in the SalmonMagic Signatures specification. http://salmon-protocol.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/draft-panzer-magicsig-00.ht= ml I suggest that we try to see if Magic Envelopes can be used in this context= . Using them would increase consistency across implementations while also providing a way to independently sign in-lined content. bob wyman On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:10 PM, James Snell wrote: > Ok... finally was able to get back to this... We have a couple of very re= al > world use cases for this already... > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-snell-atompub-inline-00 > > This is a very rough beginning. Similar in nature to > draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 but allows for embedding arbitrary content typ= es. > I'm certain there's a bunch more work to do on this but it's a start > > > On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Pablo Castro > wrote: > >> +1. We've been doing a very similar thing in OData (Astoria) for a while= . >> We've used as custom element () in a custom namespace inside >> for now because there wasn't anything standard. For example >> (trimmed down version, full version here: >> http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles?$top=3D2&$expand=3DCast&$filter= =3DReleaseYeareq 1980): >> >> >> http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('13WZu') >> Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon >> Lescaut >> Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan Op= era >> presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, directed by Gian Carl= o >> Menotti, the title character (<a href=3D" >> http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647">Renata >> Scotto</a>) escapes from a French convent and runs away with a poo= r >> student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young <a href=3D" >> http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475">Placido >> Domingo</a>). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy eld= erly >> lover; however, her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with >> her. >> 2009-10-07T05:06:22Z >> 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z >> >> >> >> > title=3D"Title" href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/$value" /> >> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/AudioForma= ts" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"AudioFormats" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/AudioFormats" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Awards" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Disc" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Disc" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Disc" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Movie" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Movie" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Movie" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Season" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Season" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Season" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Series" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Series" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Series" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/ScreenForm= ats" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"ScreenFormats" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/ScreenFormats" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Cast" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Cast" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Cast"> >> >> >> Cast >> http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('13WZu')/Cast >> 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z >> >> >> http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People(83647) >> Renata Scotto >> 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z >> >> >> >> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" >> href=3D"People(83647)/Awards" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActe= dIn" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesActedIn" >> href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesActedIn" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDire= cted" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesDirected" >> href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesDirected" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> >> >> >> 83647 >> Renata Scotto >> >> >> >> >> http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People(30005475) >> Pl=E1cido Domingo >> 2010-05-19T18:42:18Z >> >> >> >> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" >> href=3D"People(30005475)/Awards" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActe= dIn" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesActedIn" >> href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesActedIn" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDire= cted" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"TitlesDirected" >> href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesDirected" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> >> >> >> 30005475 >> Pl=E1cido Domingo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Languages" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Languages" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Languages" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Directors" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Directors" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Directors" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Genres" >> type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Genres" >> href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Genres" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" /> >> > http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jpg" /> >> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/metadata" xmlns:d= =3D" >> http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices"> >> 13WZu >> Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan Opera >> presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, directed by Gian Carl= o >> Menotti, the title character (<a href=3D" >> http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647">Renata >> Scotto</a>) escapes from a French convent and runs away with a poo= r >> student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young <a href=3D" >> http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475">Placido >> Domingo</a>). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy eld= erly >> lover; however, her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with >> her. >> 8040 >> 3.3 >> 1980 >> >> http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Metropolitan_Opera_G._Puccini_Manon_Lescaut= /5616554 >> >> NR >> Movie >> Metropolitan Opera: Puccini >> Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon Lescaut >> http://movi.es/13WZu >> >> http://api.netflix.com/catalog/titles/movies/561655= 4 >> >> >> http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/tiny/5616554.jpg >> >> >> http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/small/5616554.jpg >> http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jp= g >> >> >> >> >> false >> > m:null=3D"true"> >> >> > m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false >> >> >> false >> > m:null=3D"true"> >> >> >> >> false >> > m:null=3D"true"> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto: >> owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of James Snell >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:50 PM >> To: Nikunj Mehta >> Cc: Colm Divilly; nrmehtais@gmail.com; Atom-Syntax >> Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or some kind >> of hash.) >> >> >> Non-Atom type support, I think, is definitely important. I also urge >> you to consider defining the element so that it is a part of the Atom >> namespace. Explosion and management of extension namespaces is going >> to become a significant problem as time goes on, we need to establish >> good practices for it now. >> >> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Nikunj Mehta >> wrote: >> > I can brush up the I-D and add the non-Atom type support, which was >> contemplated but waiting for more interest to be put in. >> > >> > Nikunj >> > On May 18, 2010, at 5:23 AM, Colm Divilly wrote: >> > >> >> James Snell wrote: >> >>> Another change that I am contemplating making is introducing a new >> >>> child element for the atom:link element that would allow it to serve >> >>> the same basic purpose as the GData feedLink and entryLink elements >> >>> except with greater flexibility... specifically, it would allow a >> >>> representation of the linked resource to be dropped directly into th= e >> >>> link element, e.g. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> this is a representation of the data >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> abc...def=3D=3D >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ... >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Or something along those lines. >> >>> >> >>> Thoughts? >> >>> >> >>> >> >> +1, I think this is really important, Whenever I am designing >> resources, I am always finding myself having to make a choice about whet= her >> to inline related content in the resource or include a hyper link to the >> related content. Having a consistent pattern for doing this would be >> beneficial. >> >> >> >> As an aside, if this approach was possible, then one could re-imagine >> the atom:content element as simply .... >> >> >> >> Nikunj Mehta has an unpublished draft of Atom Inline Extensions that >> proposes the same as what you propose [1] (the last published draft >> restricted the inline content types to atom resources only [2]), Nikunj >> care to weigh in? >> >> >> >> There was some discussion about this a while back: [3] >> >> >> >> [1] >> http://atom-ext.googlecode.com/svn-history/r9/trunk/draft-mehta-atom-inl= ine.xml >> >> [2] >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-atom-inline-01#section-2.1.1 >> >> [3] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/threads.html#21203 >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> - James Snell >> http://www.snellspace.com >> jasnell@gmail.com >> >> >> > > > -- > - James Snell > http://www.snellspace.com > jasnell@gmail.com > --0003255584e25c4a45048e7428de Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems to me that the goals and mechanisms of the in-lining spec are very= similar to those of the "Magic Envelope" which is defined in the= Salmon Magic Signatures sp= ecification.

I suggest that we try to see= if Magic Envelopes can be used in this context. Using them would increase = consistency across implementations while also providing a way to independen= tly sign in-lined content.

bob wyman

On Sun, Aug= 22, 2010 at 9:10 PM, James Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok... finally was able to get back to this... We have a couple of very real= world use cases for this already...


This is a very rough beginning. Similar in nature to dr= aft-mehta-atom-inline-01 but allows for embedding arbitrary content types. = I'm certain there's a bunch more work to do on this but it's a = start


On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Pablo Cast= ro <Pablo.Castro@microsoft.com> wrote:
+1. We've been doing a very similar thing in OData (Astoria) for a whil= e. We've used as custom element (<inline>) in a custom namespace = inside <atom:link> for now because there wasn't anything standard= . For example (trimmed down version, full version here: http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles?$top= =3D2&$expand=3DCast&$filter=3DReleaseYear eq 1980):

=A0<entry m:etag=3D"W/&quot;datetime'2009-10-07T05%3A06%3A= 22'&quot;">
=A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Titles('= 13WZu')</id>
=A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini= : Manon Lescaut</title>
=A0 =A0<summary type=3D"html">Conducted by James Levine, t= he Metropolitan Opera presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In = this opera, directed by Gian Carlo Menotti, the title character (&lt;a = href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/836= 47"&gt;Renata Scotto&lt;/a&gt;) escapes from a French = convent and runs away with a poor student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a youn= g &lt;a href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/= Pl_cido_Domingo/30005475"&gt;Placido Domingo&lt;/a&gt;= ). Manon eventually leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elderly lover; however,= her heart is torn when des Grieux catches up with her.</summary>
=A0 =A0<published>2009-10-07T05:06:22Z</published>
=A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>
=A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0<link m:etag=3D"&quot;10/7/2009 5:06:22 AM&quot;&qu= ot; rel=3D"edit-media" title=3D"Title" href=3D"Tit= les('13WZu')/$value" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Title" href=3D&q= uot;Titles('13WZu')" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.m= icrosoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/AudioFormats" type= =3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"AudioFormats&= quot; href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/AudioFormats" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards" href=3D"T= itles('13WZu')/Awards" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft= .com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Disc" type=3D"applicati= on/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Disc" href=3D"Titles= ('13WZu')/Disc" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsof= t.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Movie" type=3D"applica= tion/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Movie" href=3D"Tit= les('13WZu')/Movie" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Season" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Season" href=3D"= Titles('13WZu')/Season" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Series" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dentry" title=3D"Series" href=3D"= Titles('13WZu')/Series" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.= microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/ScreenFormats" type= =3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"ScreenFormats= " href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/ScreenFormats" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft= .com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Cast" type=3D"applicati= on/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Cast" href=3D"Titles(= '13WZu')/Cast">
=A0 =A0 =A0<m:inline>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<feed>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Cast</title>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/cat= alog/Titles('13WZu')/Cast</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"self" title=3D"Cast"= ; href=3D"Titles('13WZu')/Cast" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/People= (83647)</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Renata Scotto&= lt;/title>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Perso= n" href=3D"People(83647)" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http:/= /schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards"= ; href=3D"People(83647)/Awards" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActedI= n" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&qu= ot;TitlesActedIn" href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesActedIn" />=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&= quot;TitlesDirected" href=3D"People(83647)/TitlesDirected" /= >
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Person"= scheme=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/da= taservices/scheme" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<content type=3D"application/xml"><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">= 83647</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Renata Scotto</d:Name><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</content>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<id>http://odata.netflix.com/catalog/Peo= ple(30005475)</id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<title type=3D"text">Pl=E1cido Domi= ngo</title>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<updated>2010-05-19T18:42:18Z</updated>=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<name />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</author>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"edit" title=3D"Perso= n" href=3D"People(30005475)" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http:/= /schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Awards" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Awards"= ; href=3D"People(30005475)/Awards" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesActedI= n" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&qu= ot;TitlesActedIn" href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesActedIn" /&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/TitlesDirec= ted" type=3D"application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D&= quot;TitlesDirected" href=3D"People(30005475)/TitlesDirected"= ; />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Person"= scheme=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/da= taservices/scheme" />
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<content type=3D"application/xml"><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">= 30005475</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Pl=E1cido Domingo</d:Name&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</content>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</entry>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0</feed>
=A0 =A0 =A0</m:inline>
=A0 =A0</link>
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.micr= osoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Languages" type=3D"= ;application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Languages" href= =3D"Titles('13WZu')/Languages" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.micr= osoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Directors" type=3D"= ;application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Directors" href= =3D"Titles('13WZu')/Directors" />
=A0 =A0<link rel=3D"http://schemas.microso= ft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/Genres" type=3D"appli= cation/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed" title=3D"Genres" href=3D"T= itles('13WZu')/Genres" />
=A0 =A0<category term=3D"NetflixModel.Title" scheme=3D"<= a href=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme" tar= get=3D"_blank">http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/scheme= " />
=A0 =A0<content type=3D"image/jpeg" src=3D"htt= p://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxshots/large/5616554.jpg" />
=A0 =A0<m:properties xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.m= icrosoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/metadata" xmlns:d=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices"><= br> =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Id>13WZu</d:Id>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Synopsis>Conducted by James Levine, the Metropolitan O= pera presents Puccini's "Manon Lescaut." In this opera, direc= ted by Gian Carlo Menotti, the title character (&lt;a href=3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Renata_Scotto/83647"&= gt;Renata Scotto&lt;/a&gt;) escapes from a French convent and runs = away with a poor student, the Chevalier des Grieux (a young &lt;a href= =3D"http://www.netflix.com/RoleDisplay/Pl_cido_Domingo/= 30005475"&gt;Placido Domingo&lt;/a&gt;). Manon eventua= lly leaves des Grieux for a wealthy elderly lover; however, her heart is to= rn when des Grieux catches up with her.</d:Synopsis>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Runtime m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">8040</d:Runt= ime>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:AverageRating m:type=3D"Edm.Double">3.3</= d:AverageRating>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:ReleaseYear m:type=3D"Edm.Int32">1980</d:= ReleaseYear>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Url>http://www.net= flix.com/Movie/Metropolitan_Opera_G._Puccini_Manon_Lescaut/5616554</= d:Url>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Rating>NR</d:Rating>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Type>Movie</d:Type>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:ShortName>Metropolitan Opera: Puccini</d:ShortName&= gt;
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Name>Metropolitan Opera: G. Puccini: Manon Lescaut<= /d:Name>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:TinyUrl>http://movi.es/13WZu</d:TinyUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:WebsiteUrl m:null=3D"true"></d:WebsiteUrl= >
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:NetflixApiId>http://api.netflix.com/catalog/ti= tles/movies/5616554</d:NetflixApiId>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:BoxArt m:type=3D"NetflixModel.BoxArt">
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:SmallUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/boxs= hots/tiny/5616554.jpg</d:SmallUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:MediumUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/bo= xshots/small/5616554.jpg</d:MediumUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:LargeUrl>http://cdn-4.nflximg.com/us/box= shots/large/5616554.jpg</d:LargeUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:HighDefinitionUrl m:null=3D"true"></d= :HighDefinitionUrl>
=A0 =A0 =A0</d:BoxArt>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Instant m:type=3D"NetflixModel.InstantAvailability&q= uot;>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Available m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false&l= t;/d:Available>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableFrom m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:nul= l=3D"true"></d:AvailableFrom>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableTo m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:null= =3D"true"></d:AvailableTo>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:HighDefinitionAvailable m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean&qu= ot;>false</d:HighDefinitionAvailable>
=A0 =A0 =A0</d:Instant>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:Dvd m:type=3D"NetflixModel.DeliveryFormatAvailabilit= y">
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Available m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false&l= t;/d:Available>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableFrom m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:nul= l=3D"true"></d:AvailableFrom>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableTo m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:null= =3D"true"></d:AvailableTo>
=A0 =A0 =A0</d:Dvd>
=A0 =A0 =A0<d:BluRay m:type=3D"NetflixModel.DeliveryFormatAvailabi= lity">
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:Available m:type=3D"Edm.Boolean">false&l= t;/d:Available>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableFrom m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:nul= l=3D"true"></d:AvailableFrom>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<d:AvailableTo m:type=3D"Edm.DateTime" m:null= =3D"true"></d:AvailableTo>
=A0 =A0 =A0</d:BluRay>
=A0 =A0</m:properties>
=A0</entry>

-----Original Message-----
From: o= wner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On B= ehalf Of James Snell
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:50 PM
To: Nikunj Mehta
Cc: Colm Divilly; = nrmehtais@gmail.com; Atom-Syntax
Subject: Re: Atom Inlining (Was Link Extensions. Need "md5" or so= me kind of hash.)


Non-Atom type support, I think, is definitely important. I also urge
you to consider defining the element so that it is a part of the Atom
namespace. Explosion and management of extension namespaces is going
to become a significant problem as time goes on, we need to establish
good practices for it now.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Nikunj Mehta <nikunj@o-micron.com> wrote:
> I can brush up the I-D and add the non-Atom type support, which was co= ntemplated but waiting for more interest to be put in.
>
> Nikunj
> On May 18, 2010, at 5:23 AM, Colm Divilly wrote:
>
>> James Snell wrote:
>>> Another change that I am contemplating making is introducing a= new
>>> child element for the atom:link element that would allow it to= serve
>>> the same basic purpose as the GData feedLink and entryLink ele= ments
>>> except with greater flexibility... specifically, it would allo= w a
>>> representation of the linked resource to be dropped directly i= nto the
>>> link element, e.g.
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"text/plain">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"text">this is a representatio= n of the data</data>
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"image/jpeg">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"encoded">abc...def=3D=3D</= data> <!-- base64 -->
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> <link rel=3D"alternate" href=3D"foo" ty= pe=3D"application/atom+xml">
>>> =A0<data type=3D"markup">
>>> =A0 =A0<feed>...</feed>
>>> =A0</data>
>>> </link>
>>>
>>> Or something along those lines.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>> +1, I think this is really important, Whenever I am designing reso= urces, I am always finding myself having to make a choice about whether to = inline related content in the resource or include a hyper link to the relat= ed content. Having a consistent pattern for doing this would be beneficial.=
>>
>> As an aside, if this approach was possible, then one could re-imag= ine the atom:content element as simply <link rel=3D"content"&g= t;...</link>.
>>
>> Nikunj Mehta has an unpublished draft of Atom Inline Extensions th= at proposes the same as what you propose [1] (the last published draft rest= ricted the inline content types to atom resources only [2]), =A0Nikunj care= to weigh in?
>>
>> There was some discussion about this a while back: [3]
>>
>> [1] http://atom-ext.googlecode.= com/svn-history/r9/trunk/draft-mehta-atom-inline.xml
>> [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-= atom-inline-01#section-2.1.1
>> [3] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/= threads.html#21203
>>
>
>



--
- James Snell
=A0http://www.snel= lspace.com
=A0jasnell@gmail.co= m





--
- James Sne= ll
=A0 http://ww= w.snellspace.com
=A0 jasnell@gmail.com

--0003255584e25c4a45048e7428de-- From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Mon Aug 23 11:33:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5493A692C for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: USA VIAGRA \256 Official ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 118-166-246-150.dynamic.hinet.net (118-166-246-150.dynamic.hinet.net [118.166.246.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74553A6A77 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: USA VIAGRA ® Official To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Seller -04% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100823183338.E74553A6A77@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
Click here!

From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Mon Aug 23 11:33:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C648E3A6A77 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: USA VIAGRA \256 Official ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 118-166-246-150.dynamic.hinet.net (118-166-246-150.dynamic.hinet.net [118.166.246.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67953A6937 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: USA VIAGRA ® Official To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Seller -04% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100823183338.E67953A6937@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Aug 24 15:17:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5B53A6952 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E4-PwjGN+Ysy for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC913A6A65 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7OMCbJM063150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7OMCbst063149; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7OMCaqT063141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.204] (dhcp204.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.204]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7OMCZOx014952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:35 -0700 Message-ID: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:13:07 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: AtomPub accept Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. we are working on an atompub implementation where we don't just want to limit the accepted entries to media types, but to certain subsets of documents (specifically, not just KML, but only KML with, for example, polygons, or only points). is there an established way of how to express these additional constraints in the service document? adding schema information? adding "profiles" (which probably would be opaque and specific to the service)? we can of course invent our own mechanism, but i am trying to find out whether there is something we can reuse. thanks and kind regards, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Aug 25 18:27:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B0A3A696B for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:27:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.173 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.173 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFLQKF-9hfbb for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41C63A68EA for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7Q1NidB052858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7Q1Nifp052857; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7Q1NhaE052848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.20.240.136] ([204.239.250.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7Q1Nfsg025898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:42 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Algermissen CC: Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello jan. >> still requires some rather static "registration" of those profile >> names, right? > Yes, that is the idea :-) ... it is all about avoiding coupling clients > to specific services. Better to couple to a 'standard'. my 2min research did not yield a conclusive answer to this, but it is actually possiblt to define a parameter to a media type when the media type is already existing and does not have that parameter? it kind of feels weird, but my media type definition/registration knowledge is a bit rusty in this particular department... >> or could these be any kind of resource, including something like >> schemas or templates that would be fully self-describing? > IMHO anything will do as long as the specification is a 'standard' (in > the sense of: not specific to the single service) and as long as it > enables developers to use the specification when implementing the client > and server. IOW: developers must understand it a schema would be nice because it could be machine-readable, so that there would be no need to have a predefined set of profile values. you find a profile URI, read the schema, and then know what additional constraints are defined for the KML mathing this profile. probably ok, but i am a bit concerned about the retrofitting of parameters. >> client behavior, generally speaking ;-) specifically, our UI should >> only provide tools to create features that then are accepted, so that >> users don't get a UI that allows them to create polygons, only to have >> them rejected by the server. our work revolves around managing spatial >> objects using atom and atompub. > Curious due to some other discussions I have been having: Why did you > not use HTML to drive your user agent? because we are building a feed-oriented API where the main abstraction are KML-described spatial features, and those are exposed through a specialization of the general atom/atompub API to collections. for our scenario, i wouldn't even know ho9w we could utilize HTML. cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Aug 26 01:17:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9073A6A72 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:17:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.976 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9XY3R3PfCjMK for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E013A693D for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7Q8BmSf007851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7Q8Bmco007850; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-wy0-f171.google.com (mail-wy0-f171.google.com [74.125.82.171]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7Q8Bk5C007844 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:11:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by wyb29 with SMTP id 29so2091456wyb.16 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=L97lZbYKBuKWgD/IxGybQEa1LYLIHqbR6rzK2GvI8g8=; b=QzYBYaxuovIMpFkIwUCF2rgUFQvhhSStoLrjRfmMyb++zv6Wlg4Tc0nISqHyDLivuu I/r3x1oyNtQEoBmgZiyzZFbuVc6WXx0w2XZln29T53yDTSiaAKBxy4y8recSkcgYoG+W lRrfP247WJPHYZnyxe6BTQjAalEoVBJuk0wag= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=A0K5BW3anuOVAl7h3pmmOfdihv/XUDOcTzyEz3IPgH1xk8NdjZR7UlWepGBnAEZhCi RRXMVmviqg1fxkkrMSU282tlt6epYili60tdLwrSO6IKEaasJtmLp+TZYpjVaNqrn3fK GEolspu2ADVT3UGcxZ8jWCRGfchmGBpA3mFYE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.137.199 with SMTP id x7mr8193580wbt.107.1282789436863; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.147.143 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:23:56 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -ogKVC-pIn4sibpQOf0CLMRkkws Message-ID: Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: Peter Keane To: Erik Wilde Cc: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I have used the app:category element to something sort of like this. Per RFC5023 section 8.3.6 (http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/rfc5023.html#categories-elem) a collection can advertise that members should have a particular category to be accepted. Of course you'd need a category schema that mapped to whatever combinations of KML elements were acceptable, then add a "app:category" element to the KML doc itself say it was, say, of the "point+polygon" category. But at least you'd have a standard AtomPub mechanism that a client that knew about it could use. My use of this mechanism has been a means to "type" atom entries, since we use atom:entry to represent different "types" in the application. Certain collections only accept certain types of atom:entries and that is advertised in the app:categories section of the service doc for the collection. --peter On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: > > hello jan. > >>> still requires some rather static "registration" of those profile names, >>> right? >> >> Yes, that is the idea :-) ... it is all about avoiding coupling clients to >> specific services. Better to couple to a 'standard'. > > my 2min research did not yield a conclusive answer to this, but it is > actually possiblt to define a parameter to a media type when the media type > is already existing and does not have that parameter? it kind of feels > weird, but my media type definition/registration knowledge is a bit rusty in > this particular department... > >>> or could these be any kind of resource, including something like schemas >>> or templates that would be fully self-describing? >> >> IMHO anything will do as long as the specification is a 'standard' (in the >> sense of: not specific to the single service) and as long as it enables >> developers to use the specification when implementing the client and server. >> IOW: developers must understand it > > a schema would be nice because it could be machine-readable, so that there > would be no need to have a predefined set of profile values. you find a > profile URI, read the schema, and then know what additional constraints are > defined for the KML mathing this profile. probably ok, but i am a bit > concerned about the retrofitting of parameters. > >>> client behavior, generally speaking ;-) specifically, our UI should only >>> provide tools to create features that then are accepted, so that users don't >>> get a UI that allows them to create polygons, only to have them rejected by >>> the server. our work revolves around managing spatial objects using atom and >>> atompub. >> >> Curious due to some other discussions I have been having: Why did you not >> use HTML to drive your user agent? > > because we are building a feed-oriented API where the main abstraction are > KML-described spatial features, and those are exposed through a > specialization of the general atom/atompub API to collections. for our > scenario, i wouldn't even know ho9w we could utilize HTML. > > cheers, > > dret. > > From prvs=8476ee40e=Angela.Beranek@da.wi.gov Thu Aug 26 07:13:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F350F3A681A; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:13:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L-bpDX02+WiO; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eml22p.wi.gov (eml22p.wi.gov [165.189.88.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480273A67E5; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:13:56 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.56,273,1280725200"; d="scan'208,217";a="123506253" Received: from mx4.da.wi.gov ([165.189.75.25]) by eml22pi.wi.gov with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 26 Aug 2010 09:14:28 -0500 Received: from EXMB1.danet.wi ([10.123.62.27]) by mx4.da.wi.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:14:27 -0500 Received: from da03.danet.wi ([10.123.3.69]) by EXMB1.danet.wi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:14:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB4528.FD3831F0" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: Your Mailbox Has Exceeded It Storage Limit Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:14:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Your Mailbox Has Exceeded It Storage Limit Thread-Index: ActFKPw4xzCw5yceStiXJ1PRDRB9uQ== From: "Beranek, Angela" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2010 14:14:26.0926 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDCCD8E0:01CB4528] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4528.FD3831F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your Mailbox Has Exceeded It Storage Limit As Set By Your Administrator, = And You Will Not Be Able To Receive New Mails Until You Re-Validate It. = To Re-Validate CLICK = System = Administrator ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4528.FD3831F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
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------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4528.FD3831F0-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Aug 26 12:01:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C37D3A69B4 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ovC1uA7SlVZd for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5563A6AAE for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7QIujpu045673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:56:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7QIujhn045672; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:56:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from asmtpout026.mac.com (asmtpout026.mac.com [17.148.16.101]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7QIujLR045661; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:56:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from [192.168.2.106] ([84.143.186.164]) by asmtp026.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0L7R00J0EWMGSY90@asmtp026.mac.com>; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=6.0.2-1004200000 definitions=main-1008260134 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.0.10011,1.0.148,0.0.0000 definitions=2010-08-26_13:2010-08-26,2010-08-26,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: Jan Algermissen In-reply-to: <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:56:39 +0200 Cc: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Message-id: <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> To: Erik Wilde X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: > hello jan. > >>> still requires some rather static "registration" of those profile names, right? >> Yes, that is the idea :-) ... it is all about avoiding coupling clients to specific services. Better to couple to a 'standard'. > > my 2min research did not yield a conclusive answer to this, but it is actually possiblt to define a parameter to a media type when the media type is already existing and does not have that parameter? The rule should be (though I have no pointer) to ignore unknown parameters. So, it would be fine. > it kind of feels weird, but my media type definition/registration knowledge is a bit rusty in this particular department... > >>> or could these be any kind of resource, including something like schemas or templates that would be fully self-describing? >> IMHO anything will do as long as the specification is a 'standard' (in the sense of: not specific to the single service) and as long as it enables developers to use the specification when implementing the client and server. IOW: developers must understand it > > a schema would be nice because it could be machine-readable, so that there would be no need to have a predefined set of profile values. you find a profile URI, read the schema, and then know what additional constraints are defined for the KML mathing this profile. probably ok, but i am a bit concerned about the retrofitting of parameters. > >>> client behavior, generally speaking ;-) specifically, our UI should only provide tools to create features that then are accepted, so that users don't get a UI that allows them to create polygons, only to have them rejected by the server. our work revolves around managing spatial objects using atom and atompub. >> Curious due to some other discussions I have been having: Why did you not use HTML to drive your user agent? > > because we are building a feed-oriented API where the main abstraction are KML-described spatial features, and those are exposed through a specialization of the general atom/atompub API to collections. for our scenario, i wouldn't even know ho9w we could utilize HTML. I was just asking because I had the impression you have a completely human targeted user agent. Is there anything in public to read that explains what you are building? Jan > > cheers, > > dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 11:33:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89203A693E for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oxEwmwQDpSWd for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3513C3A6896 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SISamN069594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SISaiK069593; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SISZA2069584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [192.168.101.247] (bsi1810.bc.hsia.telus.net [154.5.252.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7SISXKB026645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:28:33 -0700 Message-ID: <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:28:35 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Algermissen CC: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello jan. Jan Algermissen wrote: >> my 2min research did not yield a conclusive answer to this, but it is actually possiblt to define a parameter to a media type when the media type is already existing and does not have that parameter? > The rule should be (though I have no pointer) to ignore unknown parameters. So, it would be fine. yes, unknown parameters MUST be ignored, but unless there is some registry for parameter values that can populated with parameter definitions independently of the media type registration, it is hard for developers to understand what some parameter is supposed to mean. > I was just asking because I had the impression you have a completely human targeted user agent. no, we're building an API (targeted on spatial information services) and for our demos we need something that is a UI, but the API should be equally useful for machine-to-machine scenarios as it is for UIs. > Is there anything in public to read that explains what you are building? http://dret.net/netdret/publications#liu10a describes the overall design, and we're currently working on a paper that highlights the decentralized nature of our approach (as opposed to many other LBS scenarios that are more vertically integrated). cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 12:11:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AFB3A693E for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5aQzuEOqO0ue for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B899A3A693B for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJ89ho071633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SJ89UQ071629; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from asmtpout029.mac.com (asmtpout029.mac.com [17.148.16.104]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJ87oZ071614; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from [192.168.2.106] ([84.143.228.39]) by asmtp029.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0L7V0071EMHEZ380@asmtp029.mac.com>; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=6.0.2-1004200000 definitions=main-1008280132 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.0.10011,1.0.148,0.0.0000 definitions=2010-08-28_07:2010-08-28,2010-08-28,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: Jan Algermissen In-reply-to: <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:08:02 +0200 Cc: Jan Algermissen , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Message-id: <2398BA1D-85D3-477D-BAEB-3501AF18DC23@mac.com> References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> To: Erik Wilde X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: > no, we're building an API (targeted on spatial information services) and for our demos we need something that is a UI, but the API should be equally useful for machine-to-machine scenarios as it is for UIs. Can you provide an example of a m2m use? (would greatly help to wrap my brain around other stuff I am currently doing). Jan From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 12:22:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1C93A684F for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:22:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7TFvEDAR-0jB for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3833A693B for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJIdNd072228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:18:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SJIdST072226; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:18:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from asmtpout028.mac.com (asmtpout028.mac.com [17.148.16.103]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJIcrq072215; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:18:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from [192.168.2.106] ([84.143.228.39]) by asmtp028.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0L7V004DTMY2ZE50@asmtp028.mac.com>; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=6.0.2-1004200000 definitions=main-1008280132 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.0.10011,1.0.148,0.0.0000 definitions=2010-08-28_07:2010-08-28,2010-08-28,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: Jan Algermissen In-reply-to: Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:18:02 +0200 Cc: Erik Wilde , Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Message-id: <344C5BED-9513-45E5-AB86-5C059DBA71DE@mac.com> References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> To: mike amundsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:55 PM, mike amundsen wrote: > Erik: > > It seems to me that you need a new negotiation level here. Re the other reply. This defines Accept-Features: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2295.html (Not quite what you need, but maybe it is helpful). Jan > that > clients could advertise support for certain kml element and servers > could respond accordingly. > for example: > - kml-accept for a request header > contains the list of KML elements supported by the client > - kml-type for response header > contains the list of KML elements returned within the response representation > > These could be included in the Vary header listing to help caches sort > out the details. > Advantage is that the details are clearly worked out by both parties. > Downside is that clients and servers must agree to these new headers. > > Other options could be: > - clients send KML support information as an argument in the URL > ?kml={URL-encoded-list} > - servers generate specific representation of the same map for each > client and return a Content-Location header that points to the exact > representation > - Use Agent-drive conneg: servers respond w/ 300 See Other that > contains a representation listing all options for this map > representation based on KML types and the client picks the best fit. > > mca > http://amundsen.com/blog/ > http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me > > > > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 14:28, Erik Wilde wrote: >> >> hello jan. >> >> Jan Algermissen wrote: >>>> >>>> my 2min research did not yield a conclusive answer to this, but it is >>>> actually possiblt to define a parameter to a media type when the media type >>>> is already existing and does not have that parameter? >>> >>> The rule should be (though I have no pointer) to ignore unknown >>> parameters. So, it would be fine. >> >> yes, unknown parameters MUST be ignored, but unless there is some registry >> for parameter values that can populated with parameter definitions >> independently of the media type registration, it is hard for developers to >> understand what some parameter is supposed to mean. >> >>> I was just asking because I had the impression you have a completely human >>> targeted user agent. >> >> no, we're building an API (targeted on spatial information services) and for >> our demos we need something that is a UI, but the API should be equally >> useful for machine-to-machine scenarios as it is for UIs. >> >>> Is there anything in public to read that explains what you are building? >> >> http://dret.net/netdret/publications#liu10a describes the overall design, >> and we're currently working on a paper that highlights the decentralized >> nature of our approach (as opposed to many other LBS scenarios that are more >> vertically integrated). >> >> cheers, >> >> dret. >> >> From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 12:42:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06A13A686B for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gtkZCQyh1NaN for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812DE3A684F for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJcptx073129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SJcp5s073128; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SJcouR073120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:38:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [192.168.101.247] (bsi1810.bc.hsia.telus.net [154.5.252.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7SJclpV025968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:38:48 -0700 Message-ID: <4C7965CA.10300@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:38:50 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Algermissen CC: Jan Algermissen , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> <2398BA1D-85D3-477D-BAEB-3501AF18DC23@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <2398BA1D-85D3-477D-BAEB-3501AF18DC23@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello jan. Jan Algermissen wrote: > On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: >> no, we're building an API (targeted on spatial information services) and for our demos we need something that is a UI, but the API should be equally useful for machine-to-machine scenarios as it is for UIs. > Can you provide an example of a m2m use? (would greatly help to wrap my brain around other stuff I am currently doing). since we're building on atom and atompub, you can simply look at atom's canonical "blogging" use case. if you build a mobile client for creating location-based information (let's say, snapping geotagged pictures with some app that accesses our API), it would use our API to POST new pictures (in that case the accepted media type might be JPEG instead of some KML geometry), and to GET other pictures (such as your friends snapping pictures). we are not in any way restricting the way in which this app's UI would be built (or whether it even had a UI or would be some fully automated app with no UI at all), we are only concerned with the API design for LBS-oriented collections. cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 13:19:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA1B3A6879 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ioaVrYJzA6L for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DAC3A693D for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SKGsQC074652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:16:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SKGsr2074651; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:16:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SKGrWT074643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:16:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [192.168.101.247] (bsi1810.bc.hsia.telus.net [154.5.252.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7SKGp10016782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:16:52 -0700 Message-ID: <4C796EB6.3050201@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:16:54 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike amundsen CC: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello mike. mike amundsen wrote: > If the list of allowed elements is decided solely by the server (e.g. > "we only allow polygons at this server" or "today we accept only > circles and arcs", etc.): > - use a media-type extension specific for your needs: > appcation/kml;allowed="{,,,,,}" > where the value for allowed is a comma-sep list of allowed KML elements that might be a bit too rigid, but i think we haven't even fully made up our minds what kind of constraints we want to be able to encode. > - use the profile extension to point to a document with the list of > allowed XML elements > application/kml;profile="{uri}" > where the document @ {uri} is in a form the client knows (based on > documentation) how to parse for a list of allowed elements that sounds more flexible and powerful and was what jan suggested; i am still a bit unclear, though, how "profile" would become a well-known parameter for the KML media type. i tend to think that you cannot just retroactively register additional parameters for an already registered media type, but i may be wrong. > - instruct clients to use the OPTIONS method to return a list of > allows elements via a new header (kml-allowed) and/or the body of the > response but would this still count as atompub? > if the list of allowed elements can be actively "negotiated" based on > client capabilities (e.g."oh, i know you, you can only do arcs" or > "all clients from your location are allowed the full list", etc.): no, this is not in our requirements. we want a service to be able to expose what it accepts, and clients will have to deal with that. thanks, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 13:51:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010EA3A689E for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.461 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.461 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f+BNgRisPNo5 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BFA3A693B for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SKkP7p075971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7SKkPPp075970; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7SKkOQB075962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [192.168.101.247] (bsi1810.bc.hsia.telus.net [154.5.252.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7SKkLWE020952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <4C79759F.5090004@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:46:23 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike amundsen CC: Jan Algermissen , Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <8757BC33-2195-4EA7-8E74-D576093D911D@mac.com> <4C795553.2070906@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello mike. > It seems to me that you need a new negotiation level here. that > clients could advertise support for certain kml element and servers > could respond accordingly. > for example: > - kml-accept for a request header > contains the list of KML elements supported by the client > - kml-type for response header > contains the list of KML elements returned within the response representation i guess we have to discuss this in bit more depth in our team, but my initial reaction to this is that all we need is a way for a server to expose what it is willing/able to accept. clients will have to live with that (as they do in plain atompub), and if they don't support what the server accepts, then they simply cannot edit or create new entries. > These could be included in the Vary header listing to help caches sort > out the details. > Advantage is that the details are clearly worked out by both parties. > Downside is that clients and servers must agree to these new headers. i think i'd like to avoid using new headers. it makes an API much more complicated to understand and use for the average web developer, even if it may be an elegant and architecturally sound way to design it. thanks a lot for your input and the other suggestions! most importantly, i am now pretty certain that there isn't "the one way" that our problem is typically solved in other applications or APIs. we now have to discuss our requirements in more detail, and then will try to come up with a simple and effective way of solving our problem. thanks and cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 17:59:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708AF3A6894 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:59:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.431 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.431 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.923, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BlcSmEWditkV for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643C23A63C9 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7T0sQdw084856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7T0sQmD084855; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7T0sPuP084847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [192.168.101.247] (bsi1810.bc.hsia.telus.net [154.5.252.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7T0sM0Q009637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:23 -0700 Message-ID: <4C79AFC1.6040108@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:54:25 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Keane CC: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: AtomPub accept References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello peter. > I have used the app:category element to something sort of like this. > Per RFC5023 section 8.3.6 > (http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/rfc5023.html#categories-elem) a > collection can advertise that members should have a particular > category to be accepted. Of course you'd need a category schema that > mapped to whatever combinations of KML elements were acceptable, then > add a "app:category" element to the KML doc itself say it was, say, of > the "point+polygon" category. But at least you'd have a standard > AtomPub mechanism that a client that knew about it could use. hm. to me, categories are metadata labels that i can attach to entries, and i am able to require that only certain labels can be used. defining the semantics of those labels as restricting the entry's representation to me looks a little bit like overloading the semantics of categories in a way that is not intended by the spec, and i think its better to clearly separate the category of something (a classification of an entry) from its representation (a constraint on the entry itself). i think i would stay away from this pattern, but i'd be curious to hear what others think about this approach. > My use of this mechanism has been a means to "type" atom entries, > since we use atom:entry to represent different "types" in the > application. Certain collections only accept certain types of > atom:entries and that is advertised in the app:categories section of > the service doc for the collection. i think i understand why you're doing it this way, but i think this couples categories and entries (too) tightly. we would like to use categories in their normal classification role, too, and mixing this usage of categories with the magic "this category constrains the entry representation" categories would results in categories being used for very different purposes. thanks for the suggestion! cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Aug 28 21:50:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E8B3A67B6 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:50:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.276 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EsUPtFJS216c for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66273A67B2 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7T4k5ev092187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:46:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7T4k5Xu092186; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:46:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7T4k40n092176; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:46:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so5475511wwf.22 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:46:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7z9HNY8dV9E2oG4RMtxtYPW+Mhfetm2WvuPSv71B+JY=; b=rnpPuWMnKE0z1JY4lBdEhPBxzOxO7/fBJcS7szinlArWedl5njw3xRsfC5zvG/gRBy DOT1p5EV/ecFEwRhBXj6tkvRmznEU3gGySNeOfzn3JKXekIeVgOX3Bu3cxqtNc6W2Lvu zkqB6qHdeTfgei0swjkTFRg7Qpgd663pAVRcM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=GIC+lLyYZTLtFhq8tmk6NPk0uDRjz5IdBCIYGIQTv9JSDzXsMx1Eb/MZ93zWvOXQfy mInpa/W0nYwOZkUphEnFAhab7bbHufateNKVdAQwjwm0cYojHpYhOrmEA5U+FTskmLOh 7pKMtTbhq/t6Tb5VogXYYyGiM982mfR4h+pfw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.132.129 with SMTP id b1mr3084701wbt.5.1283057157472; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.147.143 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:45:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C79AFC1.6040108@berkeley.edu> References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <4C79AFC1.6040108@berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:45:57 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eEJZgtvaK0ti9-4AJN-h9korcdA Message-ID: Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: Peter Keane To: Erik Wilde Cc: Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hoffman.proper.com id o7T4k50n092177 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: > hello peter. > >> I have used the app:category element to something sort of like this. >> Per RFC5023 section 8.3.6 >> (http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/rfc5023.html#categories-elem) a >> collection can advertise that members should have a particular >> category to be accepted.  Of course you'd need a category schema that >> mapped to whatever combinations of KML elements were acceptable, then >> add a "app:category" element to the KML doc itself say it was, say, of >> the "point+polygon" category.  But at least you'd have a standard >> AtomPub mechanism that a client that knew about it could use. > > hm. to me, categories are metadata labels that i can attach to entries, and > i am able to require that only certain labels can be used. defining the > semantics of those labels as restricting the entry's representation to me > looks a little bit like overloading the semantics of categories in a way > that is not intended by the spec, and i think its better to clearly separate > the category of something (a classification of an entry) from its > representation (a constraint on the entry itself). i think i would stay away > from this pattern, but i'd be curious to hear what others think about this > approach. > >> My use of this mechanism has been a means to "type" atom entries, >> since we use atom:entry to represent different "types" in the >> application. Certain collections only accept certain types of >> atom:entries and that is advertised in the app:categories section of >> the service doc for the collection. > > i think i understand why you're doing it this way, but i think this couples > categories and entries (too) tightly. we would like to use categories in > their normal classification role, too, and mixing this usage of categories > with the magic "this category constrains the entry representation" > categories would results in categories being used for very different > purposes. I actually agree w/ you here. We've done lots of overloading of atom:category as it seemed to the most natural pure-atom extension point. But ultimately its not really in the spirit of the spec. While I do not regret at all our use of Atom/AtomPub, it served mainly to simply rationalize a growing/evolving system (a digital media repository) and keep us relatively RESTful and enjoying the benefits of some tooling (feed readers, feed validator, Tim Bray's APE, etc.). To that extent it was a good idea. But interop w/ other systems that we didn't control, no so much (other than lots of aspects of our system can be followed w/ a feed reader). I'll be following your efforts closely -- it sounds like a much truer-to-the-spirit application of Atom/AtomPub. I'd been of the belief that Atom/AtomPub was going to be the ideal generic read/write format & protocol that could be almost universally applicable. I've come to believe that the genericity we were after is probably best achieved with intelligent use of JSON (I think CouchDB basically got that right), and that's the direction we are moving in. How to do REST properly w/o JSON being a hypertext format is another can o' worms (which we address simply by using a convention for hyperlinks). --peter > > thanks for the suggestion! cheers, > > dret. > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Aug 29 08:33:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD953A67CC for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:33:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.446 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.509, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2dqqwMiF9Ro8 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165D53A67F6 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7TFRvZj016613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.13.5/Submit) id o7TFRvob016612; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qw0-f43.google.com (mail-qw0-f43.google.com [209.85.216.43]) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o7TFRtpi016601; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6so4160289qwd.16 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=sguOYpym8cBP6nSnUtGPfzXulXDt7z4U6iPYGEa6TKc=; b=x4C9Hpm/E2Kyz//9HxtYDjpdQMG3H4RpdIu0i4FXSCgQWTYlnjoBPjTxG8yf9NIg4o O4Wq3VXcJMVRIjpLs9m8l/kuuTSpGUOOytM216cjg0tFktdFZcd8un4qTgcqK2Kv4kKw hUOCaddYM7XVHNLBH1qeMTGi5H9lHLqR/SM8I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=VVS7J3Bb4n4sPHEsFQ9yV5Iiar/R87ALwiJKKhDtKfqrGQAlOc4Xtfm97X4g12arCj tcINodzsp+ujQ0FObsAB5DsJZFO4Ege/lWrUZ8BFjxEWKjvQnmbUohqU4AU5xeOZM7O4 rvRja+RlQtPM2QeQlApz29REW34rHj1pcqLOo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.213.212 with SMTP id gx20mr2301193qcb.60.1283095674310; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.50.195 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4C7443F3.9090102@berkeley.edu> <2BC42E50-BCEB-4AD9-8C3A-3E2090DAFE7F@me.com> <4C75C21E.4060800@berkeley.edu> <4C79AFC1.6040108@berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:27:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: AtomPub accept From: James Snell To: Peter Keane Cc: Erik Wilde , Jan Algermissen , Atom-Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016362844f2e152ab048ef7fdae Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0016362844f2e152ab048ef7fdae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I've got a draft spec for representing a number of common object types in JSON that I've been working on... basically just defines the conventions... e.g. link object: { "rel":"...", "type":"...", "href":"...", "hreflang":"...", "length":"..." } category: { "scheme":"..." "term":"..." } Was likely going to publish the draft tomorrow. - James On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Peter Keane wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: > > hello peter. > > > >> I have used the app:category element to something sort of like this. > >> Per RFC5023 section 8.3.6 > >> (http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/rfc5023.html#categories-elem) a > >> collection can advertise that members should have a particular > >> category to be accepted. Of course you'd need a category schema that > >> mapped to whatever combinations of KML elements were acceptable, then > >> add a "app:category" element to the KML doc itself say it was, say, of > >> the "point+polygon" category. But at least you'd have a standard > >> AtomPub mechanism that a client that knew about it could use. > > > > hm. to me, categories are metadata labels that i can attach to entries, > and > > i am able to require that only certain labels can be used. defining the > > semantics of those labels as restricting the entry's representation to me > > looks a little bit like overloading the semantics of categories in a way > > that is not intended by the spec, and i think its better to clearly > separate > > the category of something (a classification of an entry) from its > > representation (a constraint on the entry itself). i think i would stay > away > > from this pattern, but i'd be curious to hear what others think about > this > > approach. > > > >> My use of this mechanism has been a means to "type" atom entries, > >> since we use atom:entry to represent different "types" in the > >> application. Certain collections only accept certain types of > >> atom:entries and that is advertised in the app:categories section of > >> the service doc for the collection. > > > > i think i understand why you're doing it this way, but i think this > couples > > categories and entries (too) tightly. we would like to use categories in > > their normal classification role, too, and mixing this usage of > categories > > with the magic "this category constrains the entry representation" > > categories would results in categories being used for very different > > purposes. > > I actually agree w/ you here. We've done lots of overloading of > atom:category as it seemed to the most natural pure-atom extension > point. But ultimately its not really in the spirit of the spec. While > I do not regret at all our use of Atom/AtomPub, it served mainly to > simply rationalize a growing/evolving system (a digital media > repository) and keep us relatively RESTful and enjoying the benefits > of some tooling (feed readers, feed validator, Tim Bray's APE, etc.). > To that extent it was a good idea. But interop w/ other systems that > we didn't control, no so much (other than lots of aspects of our > system can be followed w/ a feed reader). > > I'll be following your efforts closely -- it sounds like a much > truer-to-the-spirit application of Atom/AtomPub. I'd been of the > belief that Atom/AtomPub was going to be the ideal generic read/write > format & protocol that could be almost universally applicable. I've > come to believe that the genericity we were after is probably best > achieved with intelligent use of JSON (I think CouchDB basically got > that right), and that's the direction we are moving in. How to do > REST properly w/o JSON being a hypertext format is another can o' > worms (which we address simply by using a convention for hyperlinks). > > --peter > > > > > thanks for the suggestion! cheers, > > > > dret. > > > > -- - James Snell http://www.snellspace.com jasnell@gmail.com --0016362844f2e152ab048ef7fdae Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I= 've got a draft spec for representing a number of common object types i= n JSON that I've been working on... basically just defines the conventi= ons... e.g.

link object:
{
=A0=A0"rel"= ;:"...",
=A0=A0"type":"...",
<= div>=A0=A0"href":"...",
=A0=A0"hreflang&= quot;:"...",
=A0=A0"length":"..."
}=A0

=
category:
{
=A0=A0"scheme":".= .."
=A0=A0"term":"..."
}
=

Was likely going to publish the draft tomorrow.

- James

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Peter Keane &l= t;pkeane@mail.utexas.edu><= /span> wrote:

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Erik Wilde <dret@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> hello peter.
>
>> I have used the app:category element to something sort of like thi= s.
>> Per RFC5023 section 8.3.6
>> (http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/rfc5023.h= tml#categories-elem) a
>> collection can advertise that members should have a particular
>> category to be accepted. =A0Of course you'd need a category sc= hema that
>> mapped to whatever combinations of KML elements were acceptable, t= hen
>> add a "app:category" element to the KML doc itself say i= t was, say, of
>> the "point+polygon" category. =A0But at least you'd = have a standard
>> AtomPub mechanism that a client that knew about it could use.
>
> hm. to me, categories are metadata labels that i can attach to entries= , and
> i am able to require that only certain labels can be used. defining th= e
> semantics of those labels as restricting the entry's representatio= n to me
> looks a little bit like overloading the semantics of categories in a w= ay
> that is not intended by the spec, and i think its better to clearly se= parate
> the category of something (a classification of an entry) from its
> representation (a constraint on the entry itself). i think i would sta= y away
> from this pattern, but i'd be curious to hear what others think ab= out this
> approach.
>
>> My use of this mechanism has been a means to "type" atom= entries,
>> since we use atom:entry to represent different "types" i= n the
>> application. Certain collections only accept certain types of
>> atom:entries and that is advertised in the app:categories section = of
>> the service doc for the collection.
>
> i think i understand why you're doing it this way, but i think thi= s couples
> categories and entries (too) tightly. we would like to use categories = in
> their normal classification role, too, and mixing this usage of catego= ries
> with the magic "this category constrains the entry representation= "
> categories would results in categories being used for very different > purposes.

I actually agree w/ you here. =A0We've done lots of overloa= ding of
atom:category as it seemed to the most natural pure-atom extension
point. =A0But ultimately its not really in the spirit of the spec. While I do not regret at all our use of Atom/AtomPub, it served mainly to
simply rationalize a growing/evolving system (a digital media
repository) and keep us relatively RESTful and enjoying the benefits
of some tooling (feed readers, feed validator, Tim Bray's APE, etc.). To that extent it was a good idea. =A0But interop w/ other systems that
we didn't control, no so much (other than lots of aspects of our
system can be followed w/ a feed reader).

I'll be following your efforts closely -- it sounds like a much
truer-to-the-spirit application of Atom/AtomPub. =A0I'd been of the
belief that Atom/AtomPub was going to be the ideal generic read/write
format & protocol that could be almost universally applicable. =A0I'= ;ve
come to believe that the genericity we were after is probably best
achieved with intelligent use of JSON (I think CouchDB basically got
that right), and that's the direction we are moving in. =A0How to do REST properly w/o JSON being a hypertext format is another can o'
worms (which we address simply by using a convention for hyperlinks).

--peter

>
> thanks for the suggestion! cheers,
>
> dret.
>




--
- James Sne= ll
=A0 http://www.snellspace.com
=A0 jasnell@gmail.com
--0016362844f2e152ab048ef7fdae--