From kerstin.johansson@affv.nu Wed Jul 1 02:12:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC0028C375 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:12:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -84.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-84.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Skh7oGxULCQj for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amigo-latino.de (unknown [190.245.240.232]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B045728C101 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:12:35 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$900/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090701091236.B045728C101@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Murray@mystery-ms.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Murray McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 1 09:21:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFE03A68C8 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:21:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.729 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.729 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKUShz6cnpq0 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EBC3A6874 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61GD4HC013401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n61GD4uK013400; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61GCqm5013385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from colm.divilly@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61GE3BD020609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:14:04 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com (abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61GCtVL006339; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:12:55 GMT Received: from [141.144.129.104] (/141.144.129.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <4A4B8AFE.9030804@oracle.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:12:46 +0100 From: Colm Divilly Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham CC: Lisa Dusseault , Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: Talking about Atom in Stockholm References: <0A8DDE61-62C5-43EB-8DBC-D3F4D63E2A89@mnot.net> <4A3A51AC.2010703@oracle.com> <4A43A6D0.3030306@oracle.com> <4733B55F-5D7F-4D12-83AA-E0FA216814F8@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <4733B55F-5D7F-4D12-83AA-E0FA216814F8@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Source-IP: abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A4B8B00.0088:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Works for me. Regards, Colm Mark Nottingham wrote: > At the moment Im thinking about Wednesday night, provided that it > doesn't clash with the iri bar bof ( we've talked about Thursday pm > for that, but not yet confirmed). > > Assuming it doesn't, does that work for people? > > As far as venue, my only observation is that it will be light until > after 9, and it seems a pity to waste daylight in such a beautiful city. > > How do people feel about an outdoor meeting - eg a park or restaurant? > > Mark Nottingham > > On 01/07/2009, at 1:00 PM, Lisa Dusseault > wrote: > >> Typically a bunch of people who don't necessarily follow the mailing >> list closely but are at an IETF anyway, will come to a BOF or bar BOF >> and may participate afterward. It helps to send announcements out to >> ietf@ietf.org, discuss@ietf.org (the Apps Discuss list) and developer >> or other related lists. >> >> And I'll be there. :) >> >> Lisa >> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Colm >> Divilly wrote: >>> >>> Anyone else on for this ? >>> >>> By my count we have seven people that might be able to make it. >>> Mark do you want to suggest a day and time (location can be worked out >>> later) ? >>> >>> I would intend to fly in for the Bar BoF and fly back out next day. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Colm Divilly >>> >>> Colm Divilly wrote: >>>> >>>> I'd be interested in attending, especially if we're going to cover >>>> AtomPub >>>> as well. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Colm Divilly >>>> >>>> Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>>> >>>>> There seems to be a lot of new discussion around Atom recently. >>>>> Who's up >>>>> for a Bar BoF in Stockholm? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 1 10:22:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EEB3A6A07 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.374 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.374 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Csr6hByRdIhx for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44FF28C56D for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61HEhxX018773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n61HEh7D018771; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61HEVpk018749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.227] (dhcp227.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.227]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n61HEVTP013726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:14:31 -0700 Message-ID: <4A4B9975.4040707@berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:14:29 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax CC: Subbu Allamaraju Subject: Re: link relations and links in general References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> <4A47DBAA.6000400@berkeley.edu> <4A4A5FDD.7040602@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello subbu. Subbu Allamaraju wrote: >>> I suspect that this is heading towards XLink. >> not really. the important difference is that XLink links instances (it >> specifies links for concrete URIs), whereas LDX specifies how to >> discover links in media types. i think this is an important >> difference, and my post definitely failed to be very specific about >> this. the reason why i think it's important is that REST centers >> around media types and following links, and LDX should be a god match >> with that. > Ah I see. Just read your post again. I don't think link discovery on its > own solves anything, unless the author of the representation or the > media type says something about a link appearing at any given position > an an XML document. that's exactly what he's doing wih LDX: an XPath can be as specific as required by the media type and can specifically only select one link somewhere, or all links anywhere (think about //html:img/@src, for example, selecting all links to images in XHTML). then you associate information with that link in the form of the link relation, the resulting media type, or the expected URI template. this kind of description makes it much easier for consumers of RESTful services to discover and understand the links they'll find in XML resources. i am a bit confused why you think that this does not solve anything. it definitely does not solve everything in the sense that you can readily generate code from it to automatically implement an application, but it certainly would be good enough to for example drive a "link discovery" component of a REST toolbox, or maybe to just serve as documentation for RESTful services independent of the schema language used for the media types exposed by the service. cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 1 10:47:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A19D3A6B01 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:47:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.454 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.454 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7U8cXOen3GGh for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E259D3A6B6E for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61HfkfZ020427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:41:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n61Hfk8j020426; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:41:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61HfZex020405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:41:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from colm.divilly@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61HfApK022716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:41:15 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com (abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61HfZBO004059 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:41:36 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.2] (/194.125.18.80) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:41:27 -0700 Message-ID: <4A4B9FC6.3000604@oracle.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:41:26 +0100 From: Colm Divilly Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030407030701020607060105" X-Source-IP: abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010207.4A4B9FC8.01DA:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030407030701020607060105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've submitted a new draft, addressing the issues listed here: http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/list Thanks for everyone for their feedback to-date, if there's anything I've missed let me know Regards, Colm --------------030407030701020607060105 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename*0="New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03"; filename*1=".eml" Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (/141.146.40.155) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:14:08 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 18104295791246464764; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:12:44 -0700 Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61GCmb4006130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:12:49 GMT Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n61GCJdg004491; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:12:20 GMT Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id F124A3A6A70; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT) From: IETF I-D Submission Tool To: colm.divilly@oracle.com Cc: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090701160957.F124A3A6A70@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Source-IP: mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A4B8AF7.02C0:SCFSTAT3674418,ss=1,fgs=0 A new version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03.txt has been successfuly submitted by Colm Divilly and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy Revision: 03 Title: Hierarchy Relations for Atom Creation_date: 2009-07-01 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 7 Abstract: This specification defines link relations for hierarchical navigation among Atom feeds and entries.Editorial Note To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. The IETF Secretariat. --------------030407030701020607060105-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 1 14:10:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDA63A6ADD for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:10:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.729 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.729 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SyH3pQjd7ShT for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DB53A6A28 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61L37Y8059893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:03:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n61L3705059892; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:03:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com (mail-ew0-f205.google.com [209.85.219.205]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n61L3421059873 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:03:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from foolistbar@googlemail.com) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so1231732ewy.10 for ; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:03:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=tu7G3mykNN5H87nthGk6t0Yyd6aL/xvgSK59NR/8Xr8=; b=gkJFDAIlQ/Pp4jnb3WY2zNeJheMLr2DpXFcjFYSJHu1qAtConEzH1ZTuzklwgMbrwc xbKMjsPqUkHc57RnFDDK1FGikwpL+Ehp6R7r/LOI8/UYkQ0QBQElD/cC8QUbfFaxPjvc GKza0VkHu9FuLmF446ocMKh1yRb/3btQIO/Kg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=A7lcS5iyZp5bgbbTGgJEpXBjtFXJgFIWraiKKb9UiEVdGJPEtE2qN5KgB1ixArdhcR LJnttf4rWa5hWS7sfTj/jHsHDhz95kyCq2YpFkNny3uuwkDutMbfS5kbuEHfDZjekATv 5SwzPWDNuhpxNzGT7sEwotJNypsfE5gIgZ0P8= Received: by 10.216.21.194 with SMTP id r44mr2876902wer.80.1246482162168; Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c83-252-197-137.bredband.comhem.se (c83-252-197-137.bredband.comhem.se [83.252.197.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x6sm3816347gvf.24.2009.07.01.14.02.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: <319EB1D3-B14A-45C5-BA11-437A636346E1@googlemail.com> From: Geoffrey Sneddon To: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <4733B55F-5D7F-4D12-83AA-E0FA216814F8@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Talking about Atom in Stockholm Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 23:02:39 +0200 References: <0A8DDE61-62C5-43EB-8DBC-D3F4D63E2A89@mnot.net> <4A3A51AC.2010703@oracle.com> <4A43A6D0.3030306@oracle.com> <4733B55F-5D7F-4D12-83AA-E0FA216814F8@mnot.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 1 Jul 2009, at 05:09, Mark Nottingham wrote: > As far as venue, my only observation is that it will be light until > after 9, and it seems a pity to waste daylight in such a beautiful > city. Well, I can't even get to Stockholm on a work day before 18:39 (I guess I could do 17:39 at a push, if I left a bit early), in terms of train arrival times. The last train back leaves at 21:45, which is somewhat impractical, but, they start early enough the next morning, so that if I got somewhere to stay overnight I could make it, I guess. It's a bit annoying that I couldn't make the IRI meeting too, but I can't really make both. Oh well. -- Geoffrey Sneddon From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 2 03:04:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E78C3A6D6E for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.820, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m9Acxzyhg+yF for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5306F3A6C3F for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n629udp7005874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 2 Jul 2009 02:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n629udpl005873; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 02:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n629uSb8005855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 02:56:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D3E023E3E1 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 05:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6EAC3E2A-CFD7-4E0F-941A-59E08F151B81@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Atom-Syntax Syntax In-Reply-To: <319EB1D3-B14A-45C5-BA11-437A636346E1@googlemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Talking about Atom in Stockholm Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:56:24 +1000 References: <0A8DDE61-62C5-43EB-8DBC-D3F4D63E2A89@mnot.net> <4A3A51AC.2010703@oracle.com> <4A43A6D0.3030306@oracle.com> <4733B55F-5D7F-4D12-83AA-E0FA216814F8@mnot.net> <319EB1D3-B14A-45C5-BA11-437A636346E1@googlemail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I've created a page for the BoF itself at: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/BarBofs/IETF75/Atom Feel free to add topics for discussion, drafts, etc. Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From despoilingz7@lists.nuvox.net Thu Jul 2 09:01:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C90B28C232; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:01:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.133 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.133 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B=5.777, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.097, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX_NOV5A=1.062, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xu08Xe8sfn+o; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dc9d2af2a.dslam-172-17-96-243-314-0116-anz-03.dsl.cantv.net (unknown [201.210.175.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3D43A677D; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.210.175.42 by lists.nuvox.net; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:02:00 -0400 Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:02:00 -0400 From: "Tremaine Kennedy" To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: We will pricematch any watch that you find online Always wanted a top quality branded watch, but could not afford the exorbitant pricing? 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All you need is one click http://mybestwatchs.net Best Regards Tremaine Kennedy US From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 2 10:32:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE583A6BC1 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:32:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.483 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.483 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqeC73AM2n8j for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08863A6BA1 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n62HOId1038845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:24:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n62HOIle038844; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:24:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n62HO6Vq038831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:24:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n62HPIx8006261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:25:20 GMT Received: from abhmt010.oracle.com (abhmt010.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n62HOAJD007273 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:24:10 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:24:02 -0700 Message-Id: <9EAA7BCE-C306-4409-89A9-969B088C4234@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: atom-syntax Syntax In-Reply-To: <4A4B9FC6.3000604@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--230033127 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03] Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:30:22 -0700 References: <4A4B9FC6.3000604@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt010.oracle.com [141.146.116.19] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4A4CED32.022B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-2--230033127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The issue list is actually at http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/list?can=7 since all the issues have been marked fixed. Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Colm Divilly wrote: > I've submitted a new draft, addressing the issues listed here: http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/list > > Thanks for everyone for their feedback to-date, if there's anything > I've missed let me know > > Regards, > Colm > > From: IETF I-D Submission Tool > Date: July 1, 2009 9:09:57 AM PDT > To: colm.divilly@oracle.com > Cc: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03 > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03.txt has been > successfuly submitted by Colm Divilly and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Filename: draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy > Revision: 03 > Title: Hierarchy Relations for Atom > Creation_date: 2009-07-01 > WG ID: Independent Submission > Number_of_pages: 7 > > Abstract: > This specification defines link relations for hierarchical navigation > among Atom feeds and entries.Editorial Note > > To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax > mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. > > > > The IETF Secretariat. > > > > --Apple-Mail-2--230033127 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The issue list is actually = at


si= nce all the issues have been marked fixed.


On Jul 1, 2009, = at 10:41 AM, Colm Divilly wrote:

I've = submitted a new draft, addressing the issues listed here: http://code.google.= com/p/atom-ext/issues/list

Thanks for everyone for their = feedback to-date, if there's anything I've missed let me = know

Regards,
Colm

From: IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission@ietf.org>
Date: July 1, 2009 9:09:57 AM PDT
Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03



A new = version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03.txt has been successfuly = submitted by Colm Divilly and posted to the IETF = repository.

Filename: = draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy
Revision: 03
Title: = Hierarchy Relations for Atom
Creation_date: = 2009-07-01
WG ID: Independent = Submission
Number_of_pages: 7

Abstract:
This specification = defines link relations for hierarchical navigation
among Atom feeds = and entries.Editorial Note

To provide feedback on this = Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax
mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1].



The IETF = Secretariat.





= --Apple-Mail-2--230033127-- From aleppohs61@syoukai.net Sat Jul 4 17:04:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6083A6841; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:04:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -30.761 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-30.761 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B=5.777, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9l+3o8Ya1ONf; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 78-2-128-65.adsl.net.t-com.hr (78-2-128-65.adsl.net.t-com.hr [78.2.128.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610473A6805; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 78.2.128.65 by mail.syoukai.net; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 02:04:10 +0100 From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: DrMaxMan, better than you can ever imagine Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 02:04:10 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
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From listensprz6@levtex.net Sun Jul 5 04:27:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0413A6997; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:27:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DIET_1=0.083, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9ShjMukdbFF; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.22.54.59.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br (201.22.54.59.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br [201.22.54.59]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B873A67FA; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c9fd63$8e146260$6400a8c0@listensprz6> From: aaa-archive@lists.ietf.org To: Subject: Immune system booster Acai Berry, get your free trial now. Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:27:18 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9FD63.8E146260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9FD63.8E146260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lose weight feel great with Acai Berry.   Your weight loss solution , Accai Berry Vitamins. =A0 Just a quick click =A0 best regards Maria=20 Rankin =A0 =A0 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9FD63.8E146260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9FD63.8E146260-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 6 02:24:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEC03A6A2A for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:24:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.720, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ob5o210J+k5B for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98AD3A6801 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n669Fw8J036961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:15:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n669FwYW036960; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:15:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n669Fkhn036946 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:15:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 999A81C00E6; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:15:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955A81C00E1; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:15:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FF07B0039; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:15:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:16:08 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Erik Wilde Cc: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: extension for update properties Message-ID: <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.2 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:51:05PM +0200, Erik Wilde wrote a message of 25 lines which said: > i am sure this has already been discussed at some point in time, but > i cannot remember seeing it, so i am asking this here: it might be > useful to give a feed publisher some simple methods of making > statements about a feed's update properties, such as a timestamp, a > frequency, I don't know for Atom but RSS 1.0 has it, it may gives ideas: http://web.resource.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/ Provides syndication hints to aggregators and others picking up this RDF Site Summary (RSS) feed regarding how often it is updated. For example, if you updated your file twice an hour, updatePeriod would be "hourly" and updateFrequency would be "2". The syndication module borrows from Ian Davis's Open Content Syndication (OCS) directory format. It supercedes the RSS 0.91 skipDay and skipHour elements. updatePeriod Describes the period over which the channel format is updated. Acceptable values are: hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. If omitted, daily is assumed. updateFrequency Used to describe the frequency of updates in relation to the update period. A positive integer indicates how many times in that period the channel is updated. For example, an updatePeriod of daily, and an updateFrequency of 2 indicates the channel format is updated twice daily. If omitted a value of 1 is assumed. updateBase Defines a base date to be used in concert with updatePeriod and updateFrequency to calculate the publishing schedule. The date format takes the form: yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 6 04:50:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AD03A67E9 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:50:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DBaNTF+xGgVX for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B153A6B71 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n66Bfiu5047614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:41:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n66BfiPH047612; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com (mail-bw0-f227.google.com [209.85.218.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n66BfX4u047588 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from james.abley@gmail.com) Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so951368bwz.10 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:41:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=91YyTfEyT3tA+yzOM/lJ8IVq+MkwkXqi9Ni4OKv9rK8=; b=TAhrxF/mr/ou7vU45dRNyYcKFOeqipCHQ8CQjaxXc1j8zqGXtaAOl/yJm1ZmsJWEGB TAv1OcVmu9hOAH8e0U525Dpv4LQDPYPEdcpq2uZcGsQ+PBawfljR/EcS5tzlcL3yngav 8esslt6CKzcHs+Uf73/8OGI4mjQ4wcrC25GNo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HlmC+6pLe9mtx4zZVOekPxB6HE0vyW4GOL6lWOUaAXxLsaBWF+Yaj5bHMeGWKtIt1C tVD5G0zxVK7Q+vqRGcsPvM5rsUcI+wvtpqx2qaKRHo66IHnJFg+sv89h3Qh15yUrWcWJ mBnkzORCSfrAJSOFQL5bryEB9MpX9+pEu3QRk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.105.72 with SMTP id s8mr1933491fao.9.1246880492274; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:41:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:41:32 +0100 Message-ID: <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: extension for update properties From: James Abley To: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: 2009/7/6 Stephane Bortzmeyer : > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:51:05PM +0200, > =C2=A0Erik Wilde wrote > =C2=A0a message of 25 lines which said: > >> i am sure this has already been discussed at some point in time, but >> i cannot remember seeing it, so i am asking this here: it might be >> useful to give a feed publisher some simple methods of making >> statements about a feed's update properties, such as a timestamp, a >> frequency, > HTTP already provides Cache-Control: / Expires: to indicate how long a client may like to wait before checking if the representation has been updated. Would that meet your requirement? Cheers, James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 6 05:08:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0EE3A6C6C for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:08:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XymSLyPfG6it for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB5B3A69A2 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n66C2xfg049370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:02:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n66C2xf3049369; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:02:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n66C2vuD049361 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:02:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F03C1C002D; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9AA1C0022; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4C37B0039; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:03:21 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: James Abley Cc: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: extension for update properties Message-ID: <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.2 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:41:32PM +0100, James Abley wrote a message of 22 lines which said: > HTTP already provides Cache-Control: / Expires: to indicate how long > a client may like to wait before checking if the representation has > been updated. Would that meet your requirement? IMHO (I'm not the OP), no. Feed producers (who know the duration of the feed) may not have a way to set HTTP headers. Also, HTTP headers are not end-to-end, they are lost if, for instance, the feed is transferred by non-HTTP means (such as rsync or scp). I would prefer a solution inside the feed. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 7 15:40:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C49A3A69E3 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.180, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iru6JkpdUYjA for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152A83A68A1 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n67MUc4d079587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:30:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n67MUc5w079586; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:30:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n67MURfL079575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:30:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.227] (dhcp227.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.227]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n67MUPWA022207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:30:25 -0700 Message-ID: <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:30:19 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Stephane Bortzmeyer , James Abley Subject: Re: extension for update properties References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> In-Reply-To: <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:41:32PM +0100, > James Abley wrote >> HTTP already provides Cache-Control: / Expires: to indicate how long >> a client may like to wait before checking if the representation has >> been updated. Would that meet your requirement? > IMHO (I'm not the OP), no. Feed producers (who know the duration of > the feed) may not have a way to set HTTP headers. Also, HTTP headers > are not end-to-end, they are lost if, for instance, the feed is > transferred by non-HTTP means (such as rsync or scp). I would prefer a > solution inside the feed. +1. the update properties of a feed are a property of the feed, not of the protocol. these things are related, but keeping the properties as part of the feed format would make a feed document more self-contained, would allow feed publication in scenarios where HTTP headers cannot be easily set, and might also allow more sophisticated/specialized properties than HTTP's cache control. thanks for the pointer to RSS 1.0's properties. i am not quite sure whether i like what has been done there, but now that i know that it exists in RSS 1.0, it would be really interesting to know how many feed providers and consumers actually use it, and why it is one of those properties that did exist in some RSS version, but did not make it into Atom... cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From protectingh1@irenkenya.com Wed Jul 8 17:05:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDA728C581; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DIET_1=0.083, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_OPRAH=2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OQC1Tc5d6DZx; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c-68-63-149-141.hsd1.pa.comcast.net (c-68-63-149-141.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [68.63.149.141]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFDA28C4E7; Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01ca0029$12f22a40$6400a8c0@protectingh1> From: To: Subject: Acai Berry your solution to losing weight quickly , Endorsed by Oprah. 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Crea subito Gratis la tua = nuova Casella di Posta Katamail From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 20:11:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DAEE3A6C36 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.336, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U3UxznGQa-W8 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084C43A6CA3 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D33CRq030405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D33CLG030404; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D330pC030363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:03:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1A6E23E3EF; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Atom-Syntax , Stephane Bortzmeyer , James Abley Message-Id: <54413852-5351-4F6C-AB3D-F3BA9EE5A941@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Erik Wilde In-Reply-To: <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: extension for update properties Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:02:21 +1000 References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: The properties of an entity are the properties of an entity -- and this includes entity headers. Transferring the feed via rsync to another host means that the serving scenario is likely different, and therefore different metadata is appropriate. Meanwhile, duplicating the data in the feed introduces opportunities for misalignment and encourages people not to set the proper headers -- which means that caching intermediaries and clients (which have a much larger deployment footprint than any feed infrastructure) can't do the right thing. Personally, I'm getting sick of the "can't set HTTP headers" scenario driving abuse of HTTP. /me returns to cave On 08/07/2009, at 8:30 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: > > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:41:32PM +0100, >> James Abley wrote >>> HTTP already provides Cache-Control: / Expires: to indicate how long >>> a client may like to wait before checking if the representation has >>> been updated. Would that meet your requirement? >> IMHO (I'm not the OP), no. Feed producers (who know the duration of >> the feed) may not have a way to set HTTP headers. Also, HTTP headers >> are not end-to-end, they are lost if, for instance, the feed is >> transferred by non-HTTP means (such as rsync or scp). I would >> prefer a >> solution inside the feed. > > +1. the update properties of a feed are a property of the feed, not > of the protocol. these things are related, but keeping the > properties as part of the feed format would make a feed document > more self-contained, would allow feed publication in scenarios where > HTTP headers cannot be easily set, and might also allow more > sophisticated/specialized properties than HTTP's cache control. > > thanks for the pointer to RSS 1.0's properties. i am not quite sure > whether i like what has been done there, but now that i know that it > exists in RSS 1.0, it would be really interesting to know how many > feed providers and consumers actually use it, and why it is one of > those properties that did exist in some RSS version, but did not > make it into Atom... > > cheers, > > erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 > dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret > UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 20:14:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25353A6B75 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:14:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.351 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.351 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.248, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tslv4jxPaWXQ for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1E23A6842 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D3AMT6030686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D3AMx5030685; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D3ABTW030663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (75-101-1-224.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.1.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n6D3A8TD025562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4A5AA590.9090600@berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:08 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham , Atom-Syntax CC: Stephane Bortzmeyer , James Abley Subject: Re: extension for update properties References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> <54413852-5351-4F6C-AB3D-F3BA9EE5A941@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <54413852-5351-4F6C-AB3D-F3BA9EE5A941@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Mark Nottingham wrote: > Personally, I'm getting sick of the "can't set HTTP headers" scenario > driving abuse of HTTP. just for the record: i was not proposing to re-create HTTP headers as atom extension. i was suggesting that maybe some information about the update properties of a feed might be useful, and my guess is that these might go well beyond the properties expressible in HTTP. but i do agree that if all we want to do is what HTTP can do, then we should definitely stick with HTTP headers. cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 20:29:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2243A67FF for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:29:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.513, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id suev1vofKDbQ for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177AF3A6827 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D3MDjC031335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D3MDes031333; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D3MC0Q031327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3913323E401; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:21:34 +1000 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Some (belated) feedback: * The new syntax is too verbose; to inline something, you're forced to surround it in two elements, and then either or . I'd suggest one of the following two remedies: a) use one element with a "type" attribute: ... or b) define multiple elements, one of which may be used as a child of atom:link: or I have a slight preference for (b). * As noted earlier on the list, there's some level of confusion/ disagreement about whether parameters are allowed on atom:link/@type; it's probably safest not to use these, but instead to rely on the element used to disambiguate this. * There's potential for duplicated information between the link relation and the inlined content, especially in @title and @href. Have you considered giving advice on when and where it should be omitted? E.g., if @title is present, you could say that it's not necessary to serialise ae:inline/feed/title. This means that the XML contained in the feed element isn't a valid Atom feed if it's cut-and-pasted, but then again it probably isn't anyway (thanks to the glories of XML) and if this is handled well, it will make inlining more useable for cases where there isn't a lot of content. * Does atom:author, xml:lang, etc. inherit from the inlined content's context? * I know it's been discussed and changed in the most recent draft, but I actually *do* have use cases where inlining non-Atom content would be useful; e.g., images. By constraining this mechanism to only work with feeds and entries, it will (of course) only work with links *to* feeds and entries, and this is quite limiting; potentially, it's useful to inline *any* kind of link. However, since some feel that supporting the atom:content model makes it too complex, (b) above may actually be more attractive; by having a separate, third optional element, people can choose whether that's supported or not. Cheers, On 30/06/2009, at 7:12 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > Revised version simplifies the content model of ae:inline to Atom > entry and feed documents. > > 01 - Limited scope of in-lining to Atom. > Removed type attribute from ae:inline as well as support for > non-Atom in-lining. > Specified the interpretation of type attribute and the value > of ae:inline > Added example for empty inline element > > I hope this addresses the concern that we were creating a mighty > complex content model for ae:inline without use cases to guide us in > the process. At this point, I welcome any feedback of implementation > experience you wish to share. > > Thanks to all of you who provided feedback on the initial revision > of the I-D. > > Nikunj > http://o-micron.blogspot.com > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: IETF I-D Submission Tool >> Date: June 29, 2009 2:08:41 PM PDT >> To: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-mehta-atom-inline-01.txt has been >> successfuly submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF >> repository. >> >> Filename: draft-mehta-atom-inline >> Revision: 01 >> Title: In-lining Extensions for Atom >> Creation_date: 2009-06-29 >> WG ID: Independent Submission >> Number_of_pages: 8 >> >> Abstract: >> This specification defines mechanisms for in-lining representations >> of linked Atom resources.Editorial Note >> >> To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax >> mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat. >> >> > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 21:59:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB073A681C for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:59:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jku5e1rnuMsq for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2303A67F1 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D4pn4U035656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D4pnW4035655; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D4pksF035649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E50523E3EF; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Cc: atom-syntax Message-Id: <8BC230CC-9341-486B-964D-AD0D118B1A52@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: James M Snell In-Reply-To: <4A32DC3B.7000102@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Profile Media Type Extension Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:51:08 +1000 References: <4A32DC3B.7000102@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Ah, fond memories: http://intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/PaceProfileAttribute Putting it in as a media type parameter is interesting, but I think it needs to be in the document as well. What I *really* think we need to do is define the current use of Atom as a profile (which is what I suggested many years ago), so that use cases that don't require an updated element, or a title element, etc., don't have to have one that carries useless -- or worse, misleading -- information. However, doing that would likely require defining a new namespace and media type for Atom, since doing so wouldn't be backwards-compatible. Personally, I think it's worth it, provided we can find enough other clarifications/fixes to bundle in to make a new namespace attractive enough. Cheers, P.S. Using RFC#### as a convention effectively prevents any recognised standards org from building on top of Atom in this fashion; use a registry. Also, it will doubtless lead to the dreaded RFC10K problem... On 13/06/2009, at 8:52 AM, James M Snell wrote: > > Well, the second half of my work week ended up getting preempted by > a stupid primary development workstation that decided to go kaput on > me so I have not yet had the opportunity to write up the Profile > media type extension spec. While I'm waiting for the last few apps > to download so I can reinstall them, I figured it would at least be > helpful for me to write up my thoughts and I'll get the draft > published next week. > > Basically, a "Profile" is going to be some kind of document that > provides implementation guidelines for an Atom app. It will define a > specific use of Atom along with whatever extensions, assumptions, > options, etc necessary for that. For instance, one could easily > imagine a "Blogging" profile for Atom that describes in detail how > to use the Atom publishing protocol specifically for Weblogs, etc. > > Every Profile document will be associated with an identifier. The > identifier is either a short name or an IRI following the same > pattern as atom:link/@rel values. However, use of the short names > will be restricted and must follow a strict convention... > Specifically, only Profiles published through the IETF process will > be allowed short names. For a Profile published as an Internet- > Draft, the profile identifier is the document name. For instance, > given a theoretical draft-snell-profile-blogging-01.txt, the > identifier for the Profile is "draft-snell-profile-blogging-01". > For a Profile published as an RFC, the project identifier is the > RFC# in the pattern "RFC####". The shortnames are always case- > insensitive so "rfc9999" is equivalent to "RFC9999" or "Rfc9999", > etc. For all other Profiles, the identifier is an absolute IRI that > SHOULD be dereference-able to retrieve the Profile document. > > In all Atom media types, the profile parameter is an optional > quoted, whitespace delimited list of profile identifiers, e.g. > > application/atom+xml; > profile="RFC9999 > draft-snell-profile-blogging-01 > http://example.org/profile/foo" > > Someone looking at this media type can determine that the Atom > document in question conforms to three profiles identified by > "RFC999", "draft-snell-profile-blogging-01", and "http://example.org/profile/foo > ". What "Conformance" means depends entirely on the profile. > > The profile parameter is intended only as a hint. An application can > use it to help make decisions about a linked resource, etc but the > presence of a particular profile identifier in the media type does > not place any obligations on the application. > > As always, comments are requested and welcomed. > > - James > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 22:03:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30EC3A6825 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:03:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.858 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.858 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.259, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ys1+3s169PuL for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F8A3A676A for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D4v6bF035906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D4v6jk035901; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D4v4Fs035889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A11923E3E7; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Message-Id: <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Colm Divilly In-Reply-To: <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:56:27 +1000 References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: WRT queries, just in case you weren't aware: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-atompub-fiql-00 Cheers, On 13/06/2009, at 12:12 AM, Colm Divilly wrote: > > I'm interested, specific areas of interest would be: > > - meta-publishing > - query-feed discovery/navigation, i.e. discovering what queries can > be applied to a collection, or even a mechanism for end-users to > publish their own custom queries searching over AtomPub > collection(s), and advertise those queries to other users. > > Regards, > Colm Divilly > > Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >> >> Recent discussions on the atom-syntax mailing list has revealed >> interest in creating a new WG to look at several extensions of >> Atom. Here are several extensions that have been discussed: >> >> 1. Hierarchy operations including meta-publishing >> 2. In-line representation >> 3. Bi-directional text >> >> Please respond to this email if you are interested in helping to >> explore a new WG further. Please also identify if you have a >> specific interest area to consider for a potential new Atom WG. >> >> Nikunj >> http://o-micron.blogspot.com >> > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 22:50:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F8D3A6842 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:50:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id prwGDT+ihbWW for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEE73A67DB for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D5hF9h038956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:43:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D5hFnS038955; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (mexforward.lss.emc.com [128.222.32.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D5h4w1038941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Davis_Cornelia@emc.com) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.3.2/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id n6D5h2IN031323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:43:02 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (numailhub.lss.emc.com [10.254.144.16]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (Tablus Interceptor); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:42:56 -0400 Received: from corpussmtp4.corp.emc.com (corpussmtp4.corp.emc.com [10.254.64.54]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.3.2/Switch-3.3.2) with ESMTP id n6D5gtdB028155; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:42:56 -0400 Received: from CORPUSMX20B.corp.emc.com ([128.221.62.12]) by corpussmtp4.corp.emc.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:42:55 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:42:54 -0400 Message-ID: <7AAE36EDD1ECFA4494AA25ADA2338C8501BFB839@CORPUSMX20B.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Thread-Index: AcoDagYYYPQYWBnzQri72fEinSBkOgAEZVlA References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> From: To: , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2009 05:42:55.0642 (UTC) FILETIME=[C56ACFA0:01CA037C] X-EMM-EM: Active Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Mark, True, the following is more verbose... ... than either of the alternatives you suggest, yet it strikes me that then being able to inline an atom feed, rather than something that is not an atom feed (even if it looks an awful lot like an atom feed) is a good trade for that verbosity? Cornelia Cornelia Davis Senior Technologist EMC Corporation, Office of the CTO davis_cornelia@emc.com p: 805.560.9039 m: 805.452.8941 f: 805.880.0390 From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 12 23:01:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6333A6998 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.551, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id skclWwvnJxJF for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A653A696C for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D5sJRF039443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D5sJ0P039442; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D5sIMK039435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6391623E497; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Cc: , Message-Id: <2870B807-3BED-4014-B0A0-955A51BC786D@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: In-Reply-To: <7AAE36EDD1ECFA4494AA25ADA2338C8501BFB839@CORPUSMX20B.corp.emc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:53:40 +1000 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> <7AAE36EDD1ECFA4494AA25ADA2338C8501BFB839@CORPUSMX20B.corp.emc.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: But it isn't, You can never just dump the bits in; you have to be careful about things like namespace declarations, entity declarations, xml:lang, xml:base, and atom-specific things that may or may not be inherited. For better or worse, people do react negatively to extra layers of elements like this. On 13/07/2009, at 3:42 PM, wrote: > Hi Mark, > > True, the following is more verbose... > > > > > ... > > > > > than either of the alternatives you suggest, yet it strikes me that > then > being able to inline an atom feed, rather than something that is not > an > atom feed (even if it looks an awful lot like an atom feed) is a good > trade for that verbosity? > > Cornelia > > Cornelia Davis > Senior Technologist > EMC Corporation, Office of the CTO > davis_cornelia@emc.com > p: 805.560.9039 > m: 805.452.8941 > f: 805.880.0390 > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 01:05:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4E53A6D0E for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:05:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0XMHQVdnXPFL for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112CF3A6CC7 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D7wVSH047227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6D7wVSD047226; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com (mail-bw0-f215.google.com [209.85.218.215]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6D7wJ0n047212 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from james.abley@gmail.com) Received: by bwz11 with SMTP id 11so1885582bwz.10 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:58:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=VROLhXt8jIPeSSF1sDJlVO7Re0wzrDWU5CnCbV+jWqg=; b=Pio308m5JkSzlR4252JbXuLmRdr4WvaD9DI0VVx51l1ccFc791lzUMDbMSrLJoaauJ flDzcTzHgqilGpybU6vs53Qqle9JQGPArLHnMz9K1EiOXeIDOE1TpVHPUmpG3+wZRqRb Ys+6gxqF8XBjlLc1j74eX1knoxxunZQpG6ivM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=P7A7gbcisYosaG7d7o2w/1hHUxgqmSBaZP2fUv9g4n/PuTnoiyZLkhLoq9+uRZ7sa+ D1IiRlpWTwlX+9wNKmbjmXneNtvSKoAKaQhsP+qRz+Oq4dN9DHBjWBxD1TPZbziFXvY6 OzUEuSv9Ifyi+lUaTcucmim3tustZT4cz9cCM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.55.140 with SMTP id u12mr4943186bkg.127.1247471898631; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:58:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A5AA590.9090600@berkeley.edu> References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> <54413852-5351-4F6C-AB3D-F3BA9EE5A941@mnot.net> <4A5AA590.9090600@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:58:18 +0100 Message-ID: <23fce8e60907130058t1d08e0f2lda11ea67991e7753@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: extension for update properties From: James Abley To: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c924d9629ef4046e91af36 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --001636c924d9629ef4046e91af36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2009/7/13 Erik Wilde > Mark Nottingham wrote: > >> Personally, I'm getting sick of the "can't set HTTP headers" scenario >> driving abuse of HTTP. >> > > just for the record: i was not proposing to re-create HTTP headers as atom > extension. i was suggesting that maybe some information about the update > properties of a feed might be useful, and my guess is that these might go > well beyond the properties expressible in HTTP. but i do agree that if all > we want to do is what HTTP can do, then we should definitely stick with HTTP > headers. > > cheers, > > dret. I was aware that there might be a different application protocol used for transport; e.g. Jabber sending entries about, but I didn't want to be too prescriptive when asking the OP for clarification. It might be worthwhile discussing what information gets lost when HTTP is not involved. The initial statement talked about clients polling a publisher, which lead me to assume HTTP was being used. I'm with Mark in that people using the web should *use* the web, and think about Last-Modified, If-Modified-Since and Expires, or ETag, If-None-Match and Cache-Control. That's not finger-pointing, but merely an indication of the types of services that I would prefer to consume. Cheers, James --001636c924d9629ef4046e91af36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/7/13 Erik Wilde &= lt;dret@berkeley.edu>
Mark Nottingham wrote:
Personally, I'm getting sick of the "can't set HTTP headers&qu= ot; scenario driving abuse of HTTP.

just for the record: i was not proposing to re-create HTTP headers as atom = extension. i was suggesting that maybe some information about the update pr= operties of a feed might be useful, and my guess is that these might go wel= l beyond the properties expressible in HTTP. but i do agree that if all we = want to do is what HTTP can do, then we should definitely stick with HTTP h= eaders.

cheers,

dret.

I was aware that there might be a different appl= ication protocol used for transport; e.g. Jabber sending entries about, but= I didn't want to be too prescriptive when asking the OP for clarificat= ion. It might be worthwhile discussing what information gets lost when HTTP= is not involved.

The initial statement talked about clients polling a publisher, which l= ead me to assume HTTP was being used. I'm with Mark in that people usin= g the web should *use* the web, and think about Last-Modified, If-Modified-= Since and Expires, or ETag, If-None-Match and Cache-Control. That's not= finger-pointing, but merely an indication of the types of services that I = would prefer to consume.

Cheers,

James

--001636c924d9629ef4046e91af36-- From awareness2@irisrogowpolen.com Mon Jul 13 05:38:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5D83A6D74; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DIET_1=0.083, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_VERIZON_P=2.144, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, GB_OPRAH=2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_VERIZON_POOL=1.495, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ALC=1.405, SARE_SUB_IMPROVE=0.641, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vyv5KiSyOrZ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool-98-115-30-253.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net (pool-98-115-30-253.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net [98.115.30.253]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AF128C112; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:38:36 -0600 Message-Id: From: aaa-archive@lists.ietf.org To: aaa-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Improve your health with Acain Berry. Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 09:27:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B770C28C34B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:27:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.352, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1tQqAUsfujS for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D223A6E2C for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DGDIrN087298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:13:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DGDIZX087295; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:13:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n6DGD6Wd087256 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:13:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 Jul 2009 16:13:05 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.117]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp053) with SMTP; 13 Jul 2009 18:13:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19CT3A25HBCQ4vj4EDLn4DInzymgDBAmz1x5z5JiQ wJgeMsCK7y65Qr Message-ID: <4A5B5D0B.7020305@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:59 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-01.txt References: <20090713160001.9AF2328C45C@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20090713160001.9AF2328C45C@core3.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.57 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: FYI: We have made a bit of process since -00, but there are still a few open issues, and the WebDAV/JCR related appendix that I want to add still needs to be written. Note that I'll attend the Atom BarBof in Stockholm (), in case somebody wants to discuss the proposal face-to-face. BR, Julian Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation > Author(s) : A. Brown, et al. > Filename : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-01.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2009-07-13 > > This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between > a resource and its versions. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-01.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 09:56:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C0B28C12F for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.240, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nzJn9V8rbv6B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39F228C4F5 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DGnW0d089996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DGnWqW089995; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-pz0-f188.google.com (mail-pz0-f188.google.com [209.85.222.188]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DGnKTP089982 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mart@degeneration.co.uk) Received: by pzk26 with SMTP id 26so1808020pzk.16 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.162.9 with SMTP id k9mr1320740wfe.317.1247503760479; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.64.79? ([204.9.180.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm9102815wfi.12.2009.07.13.09.49.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A5B658E.3000500@degeneration.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:18 -0700 From: Martin Atkins User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090608) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: extension for update properties References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Erik Wilde wrote: > > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:41:32PM +0100, >> James Abley wrote >>> HTTP already provides Cache-Control: / Expires: to indicate how long >>> a client may like to wait before checking if the representation has >>> been updated. Would that meet your requirement? >> IMHO (I'm not the OP), no. Feed producers (who know the duration of >> the feed) may not have a way to set HTTP headers. Also, HTTP headers >> are not end-to-end, they are lost if, for instance, the feed is >> transferred by non-HTTP means (such as rsync or scp). I would prefer a >> solution inside the feed. > > +1. the update properties of a feed are a property of the feed, not of > the protocol. these things are related, but keeping the properties as > part of the feed format would make a feed document more self-contained, > would allow feed publication in scenarios where HTTP headers cannot be > easily set, and might also allow more sophisticated/specialized > properties than HTTP's cache control. > If you rsync a feed from one host to another, does that guarantee that the new copy will be updated with the same frequency as the original? To pick another example, if I download a feed and put it on the hard drive of my laptop here, will it continue to update at the same frequency? With these examples in mind, I'd argue it's actually wrong to put it in the feed itself, since the update frequency is a property of a particular published instance of a feed, not an "end-to-end" property that is preserved when you duplicate the feed elsewhere. Of course, it may be useful to know where the "original" instance of a feed came from, which is why it makes sense to have link rel="self" in the feed rather than in the headers: that property doesn't change as copies are made by definition. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 09:56:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBC628C4D4 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:56:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oFt1a4htW0k for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC5D28C491 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DGnDaD089964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DGnD6e089963; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mwest.oreilly.com (mwest.oreilly.com [209.204.146.24]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DGn2Tp089942 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from keith@oreilly.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3871D7DB4039; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at hugo.west.ora.com Received: from mwest.oreilly.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hugo.west.ora.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rfgWBehHLfZ4; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacKeith-2.local (unknown [172.24.42.2]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF44C7DB402C; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A5B657C.9080109@oreilly.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:49:00 -0700 From: Keith Fahlgren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090223 Thunderbird/3.0b2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Abley CC: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: extension for update properties References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> <54413852-5351-4F6C-AB3D-F3BA9EE5A941@mnot.net> <4A5AA590.9090600@berkeley.edu> <23fce8e60907130058t1d08e0f2lda11ea67991e7753@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <23fce8e60907130058t1d08e0f2lda11ea67991e7753@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Erik: I do believe that some feed consumers would like to understand the expected feed update properties as the feed publisher understands them. On 7/13/09 12:58 AM, James Abley wrote: > I'm with Mark in that people using the web should *use* the web, and > think about Last-Modified, If-Modified-Since and Expires, or ETag, > If-None-Match and Cache-Control. While I expect many on this list will understand the relationship between these HTTP headers and the vocabulary for update properties Erik defined, it'd be helpful for someone to establish a mapping between these or point to a fairly non-technical introduction to these HTTP headers. Erik: Are there update properties that a feed publisher might understand that are not covered by Expires/Cache-Control? Thanks, Keith -- Keith Fahlgren Publishing Technology Engineer O'Reilly Media keith@oreilly.com From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 10:27:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D570328C4C5 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:27:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pCdldzFoVpYU for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D448F3A6C1B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DHJ1ba092911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:19:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DHJ1M7092910; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:19:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DHIn7K092891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:19:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.216] (dhcp216.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n6DHImpt025307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <4A5B6C73.5060407@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:18:43 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Martin Atkins Subject: Re: extension for update properties References: <4A48AAA9.1020108@berkeley.edu> <20090706091607.GA21057@nic.fr> <23fce8e60907060441sf83bdebj94c03807f63dd768@mail.gmail.com> <20090706120321.GA11248@nic.fr> <4A53CC7B.5010002@berkeley.edu> <4A5B658E.3000500@degeneration.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4A5B658E.3000500@degeneration.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Martin Atkins wrote: > Erik Wilde wrote: >> +1. the update properties of a feed are a property of the feed, not of >> the protocol. these things are related, but keeping the properties as >> part of the feed format would make a feed document more >> self-contained, would allow feed publication in scenarios where HTTP >> headers cannot be easily set, and might also allow more >> sophisticated/specialized properties than HTTP's cache control. > If you rsync a feed from one host to another, does that guarantee that > the new copy will be updated with the same frequency as the original? To > pick another example, if I download a feed and put it on the hard drive > of my laptop here, will it continue to update at the same frequency? if you find it on your disk and the feed itself tells you what recommended update intervals are, you could set up a scheduled rsync that would be most appropriate for the feed. > With these examples in mind, I'd argue it's actually wrong to put it in > the feed itself, since the update frequency is a property of a > particular published instance of a feed, not an "end-to-end" property > that is preserved when you duplicate the feed elsewhere. actually, i should have been more precise in saying that update properties (at least the ones i want to be able to express) are a property of the collection (the abstract set of entries) underlying the feed. what i want to be able to say is that there are certain statistical properties about a collection's update properties, a little bit like arrival processes in queuing theory. you could get even more fancy in the context of feed queries, in which case a smart back-end could actually tell you that while the collection as a whole updates once every 3min on average, if you only get a filtered view of it, then this changes to once every 30min. in that case, the update property of the collection would change because of the "filtered view" of the collection, as expressed in a feed query. cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 14:54:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829AD28C729 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O2dcCsNxopuf for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A0328C0D8 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DLk2gn014153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DLk2mU014152; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DLjpov014135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.216] (dhcp216.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n6DLjoq4010167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:45:50 -0700 Message-ID: <4A5BAB08.5070606@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:45:44 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" Subject: update properties of versioned entries References: <20090713160001.9AF2328C45C@core3.amsl.com> <4A5B5D0B.7020305@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4A5B5D0B.7020305@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. > We have made a bit of process since -00, but there are still a few open > issues, and the WebDAV/JCR related appendix that I want to add still > needs to be written. might this be a good opportunity to point to possible combinations with the proposed "update properties" i was writing about earlier? if such update properties were available in Atom, then they could also be applied to entries, so that applications with advanced history features for individual entries could expose update properties of entries. but then again, in such a scenario a service might expose such entries in "update/versioning feeds" anyway (i.e., one feed per entry in the original feed, with that update feed containing all versions of an entry), so that such update properties of entries would be exposed on the feed level again... cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 13 16:20:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60DB3A6EB8 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.218 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.218 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1CPgx1JGeuQY for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BA828C4C2 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DNB914019763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:11:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6DNB93R019762; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:11:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6DNAvc7019696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:11:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6DNAfEf009330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:10:42 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com (abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6DNCnd3024746; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:12:49 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:10:52 -0700 Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:09:18 -0700 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4A5BBEFD.015A:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Mark, Thanks for the close look at the in-line I-D. I am tracking three issues from your feedback: Implications of in-lining inside Atom documents [1] Syntax too verbose [2] Support in-lining of non-Atom content [3] The verbosity question has alternately been asked as: 1. Why invent a new container when atom:feed and atom:entry could be potentially in-lined without violating Atom 2. Why make the design as complicated as that of atom:content? The approach in inline-01 is a compromise between all three concerns. The two approaches, (a) and (b), you suggest below: 1. end up forking the meaning of "feed" and "entry" and future specs would have to specify applicability of their mechanisms in the context of the new mechanism in addition to their use in RFC4287. A lot of the meta data specialized for feeds such as link relations (paging), identity, and others would have to be repeated in the new element. 2. cause confusion and human errors because of mis-understood namespaces. I see the following usage quite likely, even though it is inadvertent: ... even though this I-D would have defined the meaning of feed in a different namespace. So option (b) taken literally would not be appropriate. As a result, your conclusion probably justifies the position taken in (1) above. I do think, though, that your intention is to support a mechanism for summarizing the content of the referenced resource in as light-weight an in-lined manner as possible. Perhaps we can combine it with the use case of in-lining an Atom document. I am not sure, though, if these use cases are one and the same. As for the duplication of metadata and content [4], I will go through and provide explanations for each of the cases identified in [1]. I agree that this is an important issue and we need to carefully tread this space. The approach should make it easy to in-line content if all the content is being homogeneously managed. In other words, it should be possible to copy bits directly if one doesn't allow untrusted DTD entities, serializes everything to UTF-8, starts every Atom document with its own xml:lang and xml:base (and bi-di) metadata, and so on. The use case for non-Atom content to be in-lined definitely ought to be given thought. Would a separate mark-up mechanism be best for addressing this, as opposed to using ae:inline? I am not so sure. In any case, I am striving to at least be methodical about giving up on the design approach taken by RFC4287 in how it deals with arbitrary content and in-lining (an entry document in a feed document). Regards, Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com [1] http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/detail?id=6 [2] http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/detail?id=7 [3] http://code.google.com/p/atom-ext/issues/detail?id=8 [4] http://o-micron.blogspot.com/2009/07/embed-xml-document-inside-another-xml.html On Jul 12, 2009, at 8:21 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Some (belated) feedback: > > * The new syntax is too verbose; to inline something, you're forced > to surround it in two elements, and then either > or . I'd suggest one of the following two remedies: > a) use one element with a "type" attribute: type="feed">... or > b) define multiple elements, one of which may be used as a child of > atom:link: or > I have a slight preference for (b). > > * As noted earlier on the list, there's some level of confusion/ > disagreement about whether parameters are allowed on atom:link/ > @type; it's probably safest not to use these, but instead to rely on > the element used to disambiguate this. > > * There's potential for duplicated information between the link > relation and the inlined content, especially in @title and @href. > Have you considered giving advice on when and where it should be > omitted? > > E.g., if @title is present, you could say that it's not necessary to > serialise ae:inline/feed/title. This means that the XML contained in > the feed element isn't a valid Atom feed if it's cut-and-pasted, but > then again it probably isn't anyway (thanks to the glories of XML) > and if this is handled well, it will make inlining more useable for > cases where there isn't a lot of content. > > * Does atom:author, xml:lang, etc. inherit from the inlined > content's context? > > * I know it's been discussed and changed in the most recent draft, > but I actually *do* have use cases where inlining non-Atom content > would be useful; e.g., images. By constraining this mechanism to > only work with feeds and entries, it will (of course) only work with > links *to* feeds and entries, and this is quite limiting; > potentially, it's useful to inline *any* kind of link. > > However, since some feel that supporting the atom:content model > makes it too complex, (b) above may actually be more attractive; by > having a separate, third optional element, people can > choose whether that's supported or not. > > Cheers, > > > On 30/06/2009, at 7:12 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > >> Revised version simplifies the content model of ae:inline to Atom >> entry and feed documents. >> >> 01 - Limited scope of in-lining to Atom. >> Removed type attribute from ae:inline as well as support for >> non-Atom in-lining. >> Specified the interpretation of type attribute and the value >> of ae:inline >> Added example for empty inline element >> >> I hope this addresses the concern that we were creating a mighty >> complex content model for ae:inline without use cases to guide us >> in the process. At this point, I welcome any feedback of >> implementation experience you wish to share. >> >> Thanks to all of you who provided feedback on the initial revision >> of the I-D. >> >> Nikunj >> http://o-micron.blogspot.com >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: IETF I-D Submission Tool >>> Date: June 29, 2009 2:08:41 PM PDT >>> To: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com >>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-mehta-atom-inline-01.txt has been >>> successfuly submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF >>> repository. >>> >>> Filename: draft-mehta-atom-inline >>> Revision: 01 >>> Title: In-lining Extensions for Atom >>> Creation_date: 2009-06-29 >>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>> Number_of_pages: 8 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This specification defines mechanisms for in-lining representations >>> of linked Atom resources.Editorial Note >>> >>> To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax >>> mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. >>> >>> >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat. >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 14 05:09:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0110E3A68F0 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.191, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hB5GivtD6jAS for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6244A3A68E2 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6EBvmbl071658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:57:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6EBvmaE071656; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:57:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6EBvbOQ071638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:57:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from colm.divilly@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6EBvCj7005270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:57:13 GMT Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6EBvf6c015435; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:57:41 GMT Received: from [10.169.115.231] (/10.169.115.231) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:57:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:57:46 +0100 From: Colm Divilly Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham CC: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010209.4A5C72AD.00C4:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Mark, yes I'd seen this before, but neglected to give you feedback on it, I basically concur with feedback given by Brian Smith [1], James Snell [2] previously. * I'm not convinced of the utility of being just able to filter within a single feed. I think a query language (e.g XQuery) that permitted defining a feed composed of entries from many disparate Collections of entries might be more useful. * Don't like the prefix based selector mechanism at all, as Brian said it goes contrary to the normal practices for dealing with QNames. I also would prefer an XPath subset syntax. * The fq:interface idea has some merit, although I think James' link-template mechanism [2] is more in line with what I had been thinking about. Both also seem similar to Open Search [3] * I'd like to be able to go further, in a similar fashion to how categories can be defined in-line and out-of-line in an app:collection element, I would like to be able to link to have a 'rel="queries"' link that links to a document that enumerates all the queries that could be applied. This is would help reduce duplication (where two or more feeds wish to reference the same set of queries), and also avoid cluttering the feed when the number of queries starts to grow large. * I also feed that any query mechanism should be able to select on values of HTTP headers supplied with the request in addition to any uri parameters. A minor nit: Section 4 has the following example: http://example.com/feed.atom?query=title==*new*,author==bob* Shouldn't that be name==bob* ? (/entry/author/name...) In summary I think we need a few specifications: * The first defines a means of discovering what queries are possible, ala link-templates or OpenSearch. * The second defines a means of defining queries, It should be possible to do this in such a way that the specification supports multiple query lanaguages. I think of this as 'Published Queries' (JCR has a similar concept: persistent queries [4]), a user submits a query specification which enumerates all the 'link-template' meta-data plus an actual query that can be processed by the server to generate the required results, plus meta-data to bind the parameters specified in the link-template to parameters in the actual query. * A third specification might define a lingua-franca query language that could be used instead of a server dependent query language, to be used when publishing queries. (Ordered from most likely to see widespread adoption to least likely) Have you had any implementation experience with FIQL since you wrote the draft? any insights to share with us? Regards, Colm [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20131.html [2] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20146.html [3] http://www.opensearch.org/Specifications/OpenSearch/1.1 [4] http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/maintenance/jsr170/index.html (jsr-170-1.0.1.pdf, section 6.6.11 p128) Mark Nottingham wrote: > > WRT queries, just in case you weren't aware: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-atompub-fiql-00 > > Cheers, > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 14 10:49:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0FA3A6946 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:49:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.886 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.487, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MAbpevoMvFrF for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90713A6835 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6EHf8vI003168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:41:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6EHf8Ih003167; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:41:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6EHeuDC003127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:41:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.216] (dhcp216.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n6EHebq4027885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:40:37 -0700 Message-ID: <4A5CC30E.7090006@berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:40:30 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol CC: Colm Divilly Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. Colm Divilly wrote: > yes I'd seen this before, but neglected to give you feedback on it, I > basically concur with feedback given by Brian Smith [1], James Snell [2] > previously. > * I'm not convinced of the utility of being just able to filter within a > single feed. I think a query language (e.g XQuery) that permitted > defining a feed composed of entries from many disparate Collections of > entries might be more useful. i do agree that a feed query language should be able to do that, but not in the sense that it actually takes multiple feeds as input. you can always aggregate feeds into one feed, retain their source information, and then query that aggregate feed. there are two main advantages to this approach: - aggregation and querying are independent, and you can chain and combine both as you like. since feeds have the built0in ability to be aggregated, there is no need to replicate that in the query language. - by using only one feed as input it is easily possible to use a query in the feed's URI. you loose that ability if you can have multiple feeds, and i think this is a feature that is very powerful. > * Don't like the prefix based selector mechanism at all, as Brian said > it goes contrary to the normal practices for dealing with QNames. I also > would prefer an XPath subset syntax. same here. more importantly, FIQL is operating very much on the feed syntax level. i think we need something like a "feed infoset", i.e. an abstract data model of a feed that does ignore certain syntax issues. also, in the end i'd like to see a language that essentially would be a "collection query language", because in the end, you don't really query the feed, but the underlying collection, and you get the query results as a feed. wrt prefixes and namespaces: XML namespaces always are hard to deal with. my approach is to assume that the prefixes used in the feed can be used as defined by the feed, but that queries can also define their own prefixes and use those. this is a bit brittle if feeds change their namespace declarations, but that will not happen too often. > * The fq:interface idea has some merit, although I think James' > link-template mechanism [2] is more in line with what I had been > thinking about. Both also seem similar to Open Search [3] some sort of "service description" of a feed definitely is very useful, so that services can publish what sort of query they support. it may be something as simple as a simple keyword search (a la opensearch), or it may be something as complex as a join spanning multiple entries. > * I'd like to be able to go further, in a similar fashion to how > categories can be defined in-line and out-of-line in an app:collection > element, I would like to be able to link to have a 'rel="queries"' link > that links to a document that enumerates all the queries that could be > applied. This is would help reduce duplication (where two or more feeds > wish to reference the same set of queries), and also avoid cluttering > the feed when the number of queries starts to grow large. nice idea, "feed query interfaces" thus would become standalone documents. > * I also feed that any query mechanism should be able to select on > values of HTTP headers supplied with the request in addition to any uri > parameters. hm. i am not sure about this one, even though i see that it might be convenient. one of the things i think should happen for a feed query language would be to rather see it as a collection query language and make it a little less dependent on the exact feed syntax. allowing HTTP into the language would couple it more tightly with its implementation details. we might consider a magic prefix, though, that (unless it is bound to something else) could be used to select HTTP parameters in the query. > * The first defines a means of discovering what queries are possible, > ala link-templates or OpenSearch. part of that would be to first define the data model we are querying on. in essence, it would be the infoset or XDM for feeds, and i think in the long run, we really need something like that. tools like the universal feed parser give you some similar to such a model, but these models are tool-specific, and sometimes not very convenient (the universal feed parser, for example, has no standard way how to expose extensions). i think we should have such a "feed infoset" first, but my guess is that some might see that as too much of a top-down approach. > * The second defines a means of defining queries, It should be possible > to do this in such a way that the specification supports multiple query > lanaguages. I think of this as 'Published Queries' (JCR has a similar > concept: persistent queries [4]), a user submits a query specification > which enumerates all the 'link-template' meta-data plus an actual query > that can be processed by the server to generate the required results, > plus meta-data to bind the parameters specified in the link-template to > parameters in the actual query. that would be the query language operating on the feed infoset, right? if we think in XML terms, this would be XPath. the input of such a language should be a feed infoset, the output probably one as well. > * A third specification might define a lingua-franca query language > that could be used instead of a server dependent query language, to be > used when publishing queries. > (Ordered from most likely to see widespread adoption to least likely) i would see that the third thing might be the query interface that would allow providers to publish query templates, if they wish to do so. this might be particularly important for all the query parameters that providers might support that are not represented in the feed itself, but should be queryable anyway. cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From autopsyingbpx64@isik-ymm.com.tr Tue Jul 14 11:22:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B633A6946; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -28.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-28.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5zF+pxuLzEm; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-42-56-9.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-42-56-9.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.42.56.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3153A684F; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.42.56.9 by mail.isik-ymm.com.tr Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:21:42 -0300 Message-Id: From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Why be the odd 1 out Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0
 

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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 14 22:17:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1083A67D3 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.48 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.48 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.481, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGRs-4emxrt3 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E08D3A6860 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6F59MqP050356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6F59MXe050354; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6F59K4u050342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D81A23E3EB; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Message-Id: From: Mark Nottingham To: Colm Divilly In-Reply-To: <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:09:15 +1000 References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: It has been implemented, but not publicly. From what I've seen, people tend to either think it hits the 80/20 point right on, or they want a *lot* more (e.g., full XQuery, YQL, etc.). Specific responses below. On 14/07/2009, at 9:57 PM, Colm Divilly wrote: > Hi Mark, > yes I'd seen this before, but neglected to give you feedback on it, > I basically concur with feedback given by Brian Smith [1], James > Snell [2] previously. > > * I'm not convinced of the utility of being just able to filter > within a single feed. I think a query language (e.g XQuery) that > permitted defining a feed composed of entries from many disparate > Collections of entries might be more useful. FIQL presumes that the definition of what the target feed up is up to its publisher, so that a collection of feeds can become a single feed if desired. > * Don't like the prefix based selector mechanism at all, as Brian > said it goes contrary to the normal practices for dealing with > QNames. I also would prefer an XPath subset syntax. I have little regard for QNames in general, so I don't mind abusing them. > * The fq:interface idea has some merit, although I think James' link- > template mechanism [2] is more in line with what I had been thinking > about. Both also seem similar to Open Search [3] > * I'd like to be able to go further, in a similar fashion to how > categories can be defined in-line and out-of-line in an > app:collection element, I would like to be able to link to have a > 'rel="queries"' link that links to a document that enumerates all > the queries that could be applied. This is would help reduce > duplication (where two or more feeds wish to reference the same set > of queries), and also avoid cluttering the feed when the number of > queries starts to grow large. > * I also feed that any query mechanism should be able to select on > values of HTTP headers supplied with the request in addition to any > uri parameters. What's your use case? > > A minor nit: Section 4 has the following example: > http://example.com/feed.atom?query=title==*new*,author==bob* > Shouldn't that be name==bob* ? (/entry/author/name...) > > In summary I think we need a few specifications: > > * The first defines a means of discovering what queries are > possible, ala link-templates or OpenSearch. Agreed. > * The second defines a means of defining queries, It should be > possible to do this in such a way that the specification supports > multiple query lanaguages. I think of this as 'Published > Queries' (JCR has a similar concept: persistent queries [4]), a user > submits a query specification which enumerates all the 'link- > template' meta-data plus an actual query that can be processed by > the server to generate the required results, plus meta-data to bind > the parameters specified in the link-template to parameters in the > actual query. I think that sounds interesting. > * A third specification might define a lingua-franca query language > that could be used instead of a server dependent query language, to > be used when publishing queries. Possibly. > (Ordered from most likely to see widespread adoption to least likely) > > Have you had any implementation experience with FIQL since you wrote > the draft? any insights to share with us? > > Regards, > Colm > > [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20131.html > [2] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20146.html > [3] http://www.opensearch.org/Specifications/OpenSearch/1.1 > [4] http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/maintenance/jsr170/index.html > (jsr-170-1.0.1.pdf, section 6.6.11 p128) > > > > Mark Nottingham wrote: >> >> WRT queries, just in case you weren't aware: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-atompub-fiql-00 >> >> Cheers, >> >> > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 14 22:51:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98803A688D for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:51:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.577 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.577 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.378, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-Zy81lWPpq5 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A783A67D3 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6F5iQUn053301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:44:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6F5iQkf053300; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:44:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6F5iP4S053293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:44:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE24223E3AA; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: <5188E724-17DB-4758-BF75-2765C4666C5E@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" In-Reply-To: <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:44:21 +1000 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 14/07/2009, at 9:09 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > > The two approaches, (a) and (b), you suggest below: > > 1. end up forking the meaning of "feed" and "entry" and future specs > would have to specify applicability of their mechanisms in the > context of the new mechanism in addition to their use in RFC4287. A > lot of the meta data specialized for feeds such as link relations > (paging), identity, and others would have to be repeated in the new > element. When you say "repeated", are you referring to repeating the specification of these things, or repeating the content itself in the feed? Assuming that it's the former, this is a concern, although I'd personally be inclined to try. Of course, if this were a standards- track extension, we could use the form below (i.e. embedding atom:feed and atom:document directly as a child of atom:link). > > 2. cause confusion and human errors because of mis-understood > namespaces. I see the following usage quite likely, even though it > is inadvertent: > > > > ... > > No; this is what the feed validator is for. People will make mistakes -- especially with XML -- no matter what we do. > As for the duplication of metadata and content [4], I will go > through and provide explanations for each of the cases identified in > [1]. I agree that this is an important issue and we need to > carefully tread this space. The approach should make it easy to in- > line content if all the content is being homogeneously managed. In > other words, it should be possible to copy bits directly if one > doesn't allow untrusted DTD entities, serializes everything to > UTF-8, starts every Atom document with its own xml:lang and xml:base > (and bi-di) metadata, and so on. That's very restrictive, and IMO don't belong in the spec itself. > The use case for non-Atom content to be in-lined definitely ought to > be given thought. Would a separate mark-up mechanism be best for > addressing this, as opposed to using ae:inline? I am not so sure. In > any case, I am striving to at least be methodical about giving up on > the design approach taken by RFC4287 in how it deals with arbitrary > content and in-lining (an entry document in a feed document). I think it largely depends on how the discussion above goes, but I'd hope that the draft (never mind the specific element used) would cover this. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA05C5.BE4BB810-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 15 21:31:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261C43A6B19 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.892 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.892 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.493, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 67uDFO5mjZS7 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18CD3A6B4B for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4MP3e062028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:22:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6G4MP1p062027; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:22:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4MEX4061958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:22:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6G4Lvch024223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:21:58 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com (abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6G4O8kl020944; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:24:09 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:22:09 -0700 Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <5188E724-17DB-4758-BF75-2765C4666C5E@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:20:34 -0700 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> <5188E724-17DB-4758-BF75-2765C4666C5E@mnot.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4A5EAAF2.008F:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > > On 14/07/2009, at 9:09 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >> >> The two approaches, (a) and (b), you suggest below: >> >> 1. end up forking the meaning of "feed" and "entry" and future >> specs would have to specify applicability of their mechanisms in >> the context of the new mechanism in addition to their use in >> RFC4287. A lot of the meta data specialized for feeds such as link >> relations (paging), identity, and others would have to be repeated >> in the new element. > > When you say "repeated", are you referring to repeating the > specification of these things, or repeating the content itself in > the feed? I meant repeating the specification. If atom:feed and ae:feed walk the same way and talk the same way, then why bother creating different things? > > Assuming that it's the former, this is a concern, although I'd > personally be inclined to try. Of course, if this were a standards- > track extension, we could use the form below (i.e. embedding > atom:feed and atom:document directly as a child of atom:link). Good to hear that. I would argue that we should work towards the goal of eliminating ae:inline so that atom:feed and atom:entry can be directly embedded. What is the best way to get there? 1. An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that uses ae:inline followed by a standards track RFC that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) 2. An An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) and standardizing this later (in 2010/11) 3. A standards track that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) > > >> >> 2. cause confusion and human errors because of mis-understood >> namespaces. I see the following usage quite likely, even though it >> is inadvertent: >> >> >> >> ... >> >> > > No; this is what the feed validator is for. People will make > mistakes -- especially with XML -- no matter what we do. > Let's not make it any more likely for people to make mistakes. This issue will be moot if we go on approach 2 or 3. > >> As for the duplication of metadata and content [4], I will go >> through and provide explanations for each of the cases identified >> in [1]. I agree that this is an important issue and we need to >> carefully tread this space. The approach should make it easy to in- >> line content if all the content is being homogeneously managed. In >> other words, it should be possible to copy bits directly if one >> doesn't allow untrusted DTD entities, serializes everything to >> UTF-8, starts every Atom document with its own xml:lang and >> xml:base (and bi-di) metadata, and so on. > > That's very restrictive, and IMO don't belong in the spec itself. My point is simply that the "embedding case" should be trivial, just like embedding text in atom:content is trivial. Other cases must be supported, albeit with appropriate metadata. > > >> The use case for non-Atom content to be in-lined definitely ought >> to be given thought. Would a separate mark-up mechanism be best for >> addressing this, as opposed to using ae:inline? I am not so sure. >> In any case, I am striving to at least be methodical about giving >> up on the design approach taken by RFC4287 in how it deals with >> arbitrary content and in-lining (an entry document in a feed >> document). > > I think it largely depends on how the discussion above goes, but I'd > hope that the draft (never mind the specific element used) would > cover this. Let's first settle the issue of using atom:feed directly inside atom:link, since that outcome will affect how we deal with this use case. Regards, Nikunj From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 15 21:49:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218E13A6A39 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:49:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.251, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RVnQ6VAVAfqs for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4D73A6A5D for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4PIJ4062163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6G4PI6X062162; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4P6KB062151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:25:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE2FD23E3E8; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: <01E2F712-7196-4497-98B9-9CDD14488DE3@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:25:01 +1000 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> <5188E724-17DB-4758-BF75-2765C4666C5E@mnot.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I *think* that #2 isn't allowed, process-wise, because the atom namespace is reserved for things done on the standards track (IIRC). I'd say #1 is the right thing to do; it'll give us experience with the issues, use cases, etc. Cheers, On 16/07/2009, at 2:20 PM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > >> >> On 14/07/2009, at 9:09 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >>> >>> The two approaches, (a) and (b), you suggest below: >>> >>> 1. end up forking the meaning of "feed" and "entry" and future >>> specs would have to specify applicability of their mechanisms in >>> the context of the new mechanism in addition to their use in >>> RFC4287. A lot of the meta data specialized for feeds such as link >>> relations (paging), identity, and others would have to be repeated >>> in the new element. >> >> When you say "repeated", are you referring to repeating the >> specification of these things, or repeating the content itself in >> the feed? > > I meant repeating the specification. If atom:feed and ae:feed walk > the same way and talk the same way, then why bother creating > different things? > >> >> Assuming that it's the former, this is a concern, although I'd >> personally be inclined to try. Of course, if this were a standards- >> track extension, we could use the form below (i.e. embedding >> atom:feed and atom:document directly as a child of atom:link). > > Good to hear that. I would argue that we should work towards the > goal of eliminating ae:inline so that atom:feed and atom:entry can > be directly embedded. What is the best way to get there? > > 1. An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that uses ae:inline followed > by a standards track RFC that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry > directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) > > 2. An An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that legalizes using > atom:feed/atom:entry directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) and > standardizing this later (in 2010/11) > > 3. A standards track that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry > directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) > >> >> >>> >>> 2. cause confusion and human errors because of mis-understood >>> namespaces. I see the following usage quite likely, even though it >>> is inadvertent: >>> >>> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >> >> No; this is what the feed validator is for. People will make >> mistakes -- especially with XML -- no matter what we do. >> > > Let's not make it any more likely for people to make mistakes. This > issue will be moot if we go on approach 2 or 3. > >> >>> As for the duplication of metadata and content [4], I will go >>> through and provide explanations for each of the cases identified >>> in [1]. I agree that this is an important issue and we need to >>> carefully tread this space. The approach should make it easy to in- >>> line content if all the content is being homogeneously managed. In >>> other words, it should be possible to copy bits directly if one >>> doesn't allow untrusted DTD entities, serializes everything to >>> UTF-8, starts every Atom document with its own xml:lang and >>> xml:base (and bi-di) metadata, and so on. >> >> That's very restrictive, and IMO don't belong in the spec itself. > > My point is simply that the "embedding case" should be trivial, just > like embedding text in atom:content is trivial. Other cases must be > supported, albeit with appropriate metadata. > >> >> >>> The use case for non-Atom content to be in-lined definitely ought >>> to be given thought. Would a separate mark-up mechanism be best >>> for addressing this, as opposed to using ae:inline? I am not so >>> sure. In any case, I am striving to at least be methodical about >>> giving up on the design approach taken by RFC4287 in how it deals >>> with arbitrary content and in-lining (an entry document in a feed >>> document). >> >> I think it largely depends on how the discussion above goes, but >> I'd hope that the draft (never mind the specific element used) >> would cover this. > > Let's first settle the issue of using atom:feed directly inside > atom:link, since that outcome will affect how we deal with this use > case. > > Regards, > Nikunj -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 15 22:05:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133BE3A6B4B for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:05:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.859 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.460, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tcS4r3XLGbwa for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FB13A68B7 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4tSYA063730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6G4tSTh063729; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G4tGl6063715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6G4tKuI026166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:55:21 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com (abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6G4vBZd008361; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:57:11 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:55:11 -0700 Cc: atom-syntax Syntax Message-Id: <8C0CBB44-F50B-4E3E-9985-14C007808375@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <01E2F712-7196-4497-98B9-9CDD14488DE3@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-mehta-atom-inline-01 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:53:36 -0700 References: <20090629210841.1A5A028C2F6@core3.amsl.com> <6439B576-3B7C-4199-BF38-56EA9B798F1F@mnot.net> <2BE295D1-90A4-4BD4-AD7A-0A96211BECF7@oracle.com> <5188E724-17DB-4758-BF75-2765C4666C5E@mnot.net> <01E2F712-7196-4497-98B9-9CDD14488DE3@mnot.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4A5EB2B0.013B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > I *think* that #2 isn't allowed, process-wise, because the atom > namespace is reserved for things done on the standards track (IIRC). I agree with you wholeheartedly. > > I'd say #1 is the right thing to do; it'll give us experience with > the issues, use cases, etc. This is why I am not in favor of making too many rules about the meaning of ae:inline. So lets stick to using ae:inline as a stop-gap arrangement until a standards track solution collapses atom:feed directly into atom:link. > > Cheers, > > > On 16/07/2009, at 2:20 PM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > >> On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> >>> >>> On 14/07/2009, at 9:09 AM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >>>> >>>> The two approaches, (a) and (b), you suggest below: >>>> >>>> 1. end up forking the meaning of "feed" and "entry" and future >>>> specs would have to specify applicability of their mechanisms in >>>> the context of the new mechanism in addition to their use in >>>> RFC4287. A lot of the meta data specialized for feeds such as >>>> link relations (paging), identity, and others would have to be >>>> repeated in the new element. >>> >>> When you say "repeated", are you referring to repeating the >>> specification of these things, or repeating the content itself in >>> the feed? >> >> I meant repeating the specification. If atom:feed and ae:feed walk >> the same way and talk the same way, then why bother creating >> different things? >> >>> >>> Assuming that it's the former, this is a concern, although I'd >>> personally be inclined to try. Of course, if this were a standards- >>> track extension, we could use the form below (i.e. embedding >>> atom:feed and atom:document directly as a child of atom:link). >> >> Good to hear that. I would argue that we should work towards the >> goal of eliminating ae:inline so that atom:feed and atom:entry can >> be directly embedded. What is the best way to get there? >> >> 1. An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that uses ae:inline followed >> by a standards track RFC that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry >> directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) >> >> 2. An An experimental track RFC (in 2009) that legalizes using >> atom:feed/atom:entry directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) and >> standardizing this later (in 2010/11) >> >> 3. A standards track that legalizes using atom:feed/atom:entry >> directly under atom:link (in 2010/11) >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> 2. cause confusion and human errors because of mis-understood >>>> namespaces. I see the following usage quite likely, even though >>>> it is inadvertent: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> No; this is what the feed validator is for. People will make >>> mistakes -- especially with XML -- no matter what we do. >>> >> >> Let's not make it any more likely for people to make mistakes. This >> issue will be moot if we go on approach 2 or 3. >> >>> >>>> As for the duplication of metadata and content [4], I will go >>>> through and provide explanations for each of the cases identified >>>> in [1]. I agree that this is an important issue and we need to >>>> carefully tread this space. The approach should make it easy to >>>> in-line content if all the content is being homogeneously >>>> managed. In other words, it should be possible to copy bits >>>> directly if one doesn't allow untrusted DTD entities, serializes >>>> everything to UTF-8, starts every Atom document with its own >>>> xml:lang and xml:base (and bi-di) metadata, and so on. >>> >>> That's very restrictive, and IMO don't belong in the spec itself. >> >> My point is simply that the "embedding case" should be trivial, >> just like embedding text in atom:content is trivial. Other cases >> must be supported, albeit with appropriate metadata. >> >>> >>> >>>> The use case for non-Atom content to be in-lined definitely ought >>>> to be given thought. Would a separate mark-up mechanism be best >>>> for addressing this, as opposed to using ae:inline? I am not so >>>> sure. In any case, I am striving to at least be methodical about >>>> giving up on the design approach taken by RFC4287 in how it deals >>>> with arbitrary content and in-lining (an entry document in a feed >>>> document). >>> >>> I think it largely depends on how the discussion above goes, but >>> I'd hope that the draft (never mind the specific element used) >>> would cover this. >> >> Let's first settle the issue of using atom:feed directly inside >> atom:link, since that outcome will affect how we deal with this use >> case. >> >> Regards, >> Nikunj > > > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 15 23:30:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE9128C158 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:30:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EKUoSkY9+ArV for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCCC3A68AE for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G6NwMD069661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:23:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6G6NwAW069660; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:23:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6G6NvsG069654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:23:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.249.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2EDA623E3FC for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <7CD4F3C1-C649-427B-A4C1-6CF36C26A7D8@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: atom-syntax Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Fwd: Last Call: draft-nottingham-http-link-header (Web Linking) to Proposed Standard Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:23:55 +1000 References: <20090714153141.493B43A6F00@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: FYI Begin forwarded message: > From: The IESG > Date: 15 July 2009 1:31:40 AM > To: IETF-Announce > Subject: Last Call: draft-nottingham-http-link-header (Web Linking) > to Proposed Standard > Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org > > The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to > consider > the following document: > > - 'Web Linking ' > as a Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to > the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-08-11. Exceptionally, > comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please > retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > The file can be obtained via > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-06.txt > > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14833&rfc_flag=0 > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From michelle@aceway.com.tw Fri Jul 17 08:17:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196A528C188 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:17:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.819 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.819 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUGS_ERECTILE_OBFU=1.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_06=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HS6KhMCUGYUi for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adeco.fr (unknown [187.13.42.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 833CB3A6886 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:17:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: Order status #520964 From: Maria Finch MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html X-Antivirus: avast! 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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 20 07:24:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7753A6941 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:24:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id big9pU905nPy for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9D03A6C4C for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6KEEoMf040488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:14:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6KEEo1Z040486; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:14:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6KEEcOZ040470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:14:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from colm.divilly@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6KEGG6O003642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:16:17 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6KEEYA5021535; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:14:34 GMT Received: from [141.144.129.16] (/141.144.129.16) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:14:33 -0700 Message-ID: <4A647BC8.7000803@oracle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:14:32 +0100 From: Colm Divilly Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham CC: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A647BCA.011F:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Mark Nottingham wrote: > > From what I've seen, people tend to either think it hits the 80/20 > point right on, or they want a *lot* more (e.g., full XQuery, YQL, etc.). :) Feels like I'm falling in the latter group, but I think it wouldn't need much changing to make me happy: To recap, FIQL does the following: - enumerates the available queries - for each query enumerate the parameters for the query - for each parameter enumerate its type - for each parameter define how it 'selects' from the feed. It is this last bullet that I am concerned with, I'm not convinced that a query definition needs to tell clients how the query selects from the feed. Were there particular use cases that would be inhibited by the client not knowing how selection happens? Any reasons the following would not suffice ? In the above example the query interface just describes the inputs to the query but says nothing about how those inputs are applied to generate a result, the name attribute is no longer overloaded with a 'selector' semantic. If a feed provider wishes to advertise how query parameters are bound to entry elements/attributes they could include a fq:param/@path attribute in order to communicate that information. Regards, Colm >> >> * I also feed that any query mechanism should be able to select on >> values of HTTP headers supplied with the request in addition to any >> uri parameters. > > What's your use case? > > Just a couple of messy things: - Query needs to re-write URIs and/or xml:base decls in the response, depending on the value of a custom HTTP header (in order to re-write URIs to their publicly accesible endpoints) - Query needs to filter results based on user identity, which is provided by means of yet another custom HTTP header (provided by a web SSO mechanism). Suggestions for better ways to handle these very welcome... 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA09B5.B306D360-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 21 23:44:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2873A68E2 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.368 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.368 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.639, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VBd9EN1s0Zwu for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23EF3A6840 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6M6bZ8B003866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:37:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6M6bZTV003864; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:37:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6M6bNVC003845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:37:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [121.44.193.184]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8BFF0509B3; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <97CC681A-B83C-4840-B3D6-97D61EC56BA0@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Atom Bar BoF in Stockholm Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:37:19 +1000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: For those who haven't seen it yet, we're planning an informal BoF in Stockholm: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/BarBofs/IETF75/Atom For those who have, note the location: we'll initially meet in the IESG meeting room (it'll be marked on the venue plan; we won't know what actual room it is until we get there), and possibly move on from there. Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 22 19:21:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C05B3A6B86 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.460, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44ZhmNo46Re7 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4833A67F0 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6N2EcBx086529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6N2EcHG086527; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6N2EQnK086512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:14:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [121.44.193.184]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FD4F509DA; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Message-Id: <1071A1C0-9C9A-4962-880F-B217818B198A@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Colm Divilly In-Reply-To: <4A647BC8.7000803@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Exploring a new WG around Atom Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:14:21 +1000 References: <76C65F4C-7CEB-4F16-B9E7-35757E3D6D76@oracle.com> <4A326242.6080407@oracle.com> <559D55F1-57AB-41EA-A4AC-664D58660DC9@mnot.net> <4A5C72BA.3010708@oracle.com> <4A647BC8.7000803@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 21/07/2009, at 12:14 AM, Colm Divilly wrote: > > > Mark Nottingham wrote: >> >> From what I've seen, people tend to either think it hits the 80/20 >> point right on, or they want a *lot* more (e.g., full XQuery, YQL, >> etc.). > :) Feels like I'm falling in the latter group, but I think it > wouldn't need much changing to make me happy: > > To recap, FIQL does the following: > - enumerates the available queries > - for each query enumerate the parameters for the query > - for each parameter enumerate its type > - for each parameter define how it 'selects' from the feed. > > It is this last bullet that I am concerned with, I'm not convinced > that a query definition needs to tell clients how the query selects > from the feed. Were there particular use cases that would be > inhibited by the client not knowing how selection happens? Any > reasons the following would not suffice ? > > xmlns:fiql="http://purl.org/syndication/query" > template="/feed-search?{-join|&|title,foo,bar}"> > > type="http://purl.org/syndication/query/date"/> > type="http://purl.org/syndication/query/numeric"/> > > > In the above example the query interface just describes the inputs > to the query but says nothing about how those inputs are applied to > generate a result, the name attribute is no longer overloaded with a > 'selector' semantic. > > If a feed provider wishes to advertise how query parameters are > bound to entry elements/attributes they could include a fq:param/ > @path attribute in order to communicate that information. > > Regards, > Colm > >>> >>> * I also feed that any query mechanism should be able to select on >>> values of HTTP headers supplied with the request in addition to >>> any uri parameters. >> >> What's your use case? >> >> > Just a couple of messy things: > > - Query needs to re-write URIs and/or xml:base decls in the > response, depending on the value of a custom HTTP header (in order > to re-write URIs to their publicly accesible endpoints) Hmm. Probably best to do it on the client side, or with a URI query parameter... > - Query needs to filter results based on user identity, which is > provided by means of yet another custom HTTP header (provided by a > web SSO mechanism). I think this is more about feed selection (usually by the URI) than actual query processing... Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From watermelonzz74@stjul.msk.ru Thu Jul 23 18:51:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07E53A6C7B for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:51:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -27.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-27.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_MISMATCH_BR=2.4, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_83BF7=2.069] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uE28mXaxwnJ8 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-3-254-152.bnut3702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (unknown [189.96.48.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6433A67E4 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 189.96.48.197 by relay1.demos.su; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:20 -0300 Message-ID: <000d01ca0c01$3db56880$6400a8c0@watermelonzz74> From: "atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org" To: Subject: Lupe Porter sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards! 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From muscling@schuellermann.de Sat Jul 25 17:59:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF7D3A6939 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:59:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -61.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-61.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_RECV_VIRTUACOMBR=1.193, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L92tvTYb-Ret for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c953340f.virtua.com.br (c953340f.virtua.com.br [201.83.52.15]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2B43A6839 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01ca0d8c$3373a580$6400a8c0@muscling> From: "atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org" To: Subject: Charley Downs sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards! Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:58:34 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0D8C.3373A580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0D8C.3373A580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh happy day! Charley Downs sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Pickup your card safely and securely: 1. Go directly to your card at this address: http://www.postcards.org/cards/cardreceive.php?id=3D07504423864776709352032= 2568800017902198905&email=3Datompub-archive@lists.ietf.org&from=3DCharley D= owns 2. Please wait while postcard is loading. Your pickup code is: 5094-7233-21917-20469 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Your postcard will be available for 60 days. We hope you enjoy your postcard, and if you do, please take a moment to send a few yourself! Regards, Marty & Alice at 1001 Postcards http://www.postcards.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0D8C.3373A580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh happy day! Charley Downs = sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pickup your card safely and securely:

1. Go directly to your card = at this address:
http://www.postcards.org/cards/cardreceive.php?= id=3D075044238647767093520322568800017902198905&email=3Datompub-archive@lis= ts.ietf.org&from=3DCharley Downs

2. Please wait while postcard is loading.

Your pickup code is: 5094-7= 233-21917-20469
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

Your postcard will be availa= ble for 60 days.

We hope you enjoy your postc= ard, and if you do, please take a moment
to send a few yourself!

Regards,
Marty & Alice at 1001 Postcards
http://www.postcards.org

----------------------------= ------------------------------------------------

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0D8C.3373A580-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 26 01:33:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C0F3A67B6 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.163 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.435, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1A3CIxr0s08J for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975C93A67D0 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6Q8QNxT041723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:26:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n6Q8QN7w041721; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:26:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.145]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6Q8QBtB041707; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:26:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa.dusseault@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so1804649qwk.28 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:26:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+gUI64nRxNHcTv2NzxJig1lAdz/rL2EBOjpV4texXeY=; b=Aa46O9vqfc4QrBwJXG9weMUQwn4Mzz8nLlv1/HfbDIgg6VNZ3WzcuvkhA0/DjMkCwh E5NBqk5JeaDiQzcRP2ujaO5DYqNGnA4aCjj0ynKIncClExbD6mJ5ITXOiZEc1QnRDyg/ Cw8OCsgPBnlyWlFuQbyd8FROVeA32Ku2/zVIk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=IdGxI+Fk/hwNBTwnTwS8mLynpqjpkzjBStd3pgUjzNLlLIYEojbsiUga6aGzeNQMT3 xdIEc65y4u0mwm7qDGh6W9/S0gnR4IAAxXOyHr1j8yblg7zascscEYKRsvhpE++/Kphu 6ZTGU/9uQkOjUn24rNzMhsl7T4Ua3hZ146vo8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.46.10 with SMTP id h10mr3118102vcf.8.1248596771194; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:26:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <97CC681A-B83C-4840-B3D6-97D61EC56BA0@mnot.net> References: <97CC681A-B83C-4840-B3D6-97D61EC56BA0@mnot.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:26:11 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Atom Bar BoF in Stockholm From: Lisa Dusseault To: Mark Nottingham Cc: atom-syntax Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b86de03c85c046f979710 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0016363b86de03c85c046f979710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's room 202 in the Folkets Hus building which is part of the Stockholm City Conference Center. lisa On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > > For those who haven't seen it yet, we're planning an informal BoF in > Stockholm: > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/BarBofs/IETF75/Atom > > For those who have, note the location: we'll initially meet in the IESG > meeting room (it'll be marked on the venue plan; we won't know what actual > room it is until we get there), and possibly move on from there. > > Cheers, > > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ > > --0016363b86de03c85c046f979710 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's room 202 in the Folkets Hus building which is part of the Stockhol= m City Conference Center.

lisa

On = Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:

For those who haven't seen it yet, we're planning an informal BoF i= n Stockholm:
=A0http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/BarB= ofs/IETF75/Atom

For those who have, note the location: we'll initially meet in the IESG= meeting room (it'll be marked on the venue plan; we won't know wha= t actual room it is until we get there), and possibly move on from there.
Cheers,

--
Mark Nottingham =A0 =A0 = http://www.mnot.net/


--0016363b86de03c85c046f979710-- From merrilykv3@red032.com Sun Jul 26 07:01:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995F83A69BB for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:01:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.056 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.056 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IB3cntmvHylU for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-2-4-55.bsaco701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-2-4-55.bsaco701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.2.4.55]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E47D3A6B21 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.2.4.55 by mx00.dns-servicios.com; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:00:14 -0300 From: To: Subject: Get_slim Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:00:14 -0300 Message-ID: <000d01ca0df9$662ddd20$6400a8c0@merrilykv3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Importance: Normal http://NICEACCEPT.COM From enliveningb0@spd-spay.de Sun Jul 26 08:49:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607AE3A6822 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -29.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-29.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_VERIZON_P=2.144, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_VERIZON_POOL=1.495, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_09BB4=1.322] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUlIx8jDl2av for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool-173-70-246-176.nwrknj.east.verizon.net (pool-173-70-246-176.nwrknj.east.verizon.net [173.70.246.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF163A63EB for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.70.246.176 by mxlb.ispgateway.de; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:27 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01ca0e08$a7ee73f0$6400a8c0@enliveningb0> From: "atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org" To: Subject: Angelina Godfrey sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards! Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0E08.A7EE73F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0E08.A7EE73F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh happy day! Angelina Godfrey sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Pickup your card safely and securely: 1. Go directly to your card at this address: http://www.postcards.org/cards/cardreceive.php?id=3D11603834482891234412230= 938679009320357770&email=3Datompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org&from=3DAngelin= a Godfrey 2. Please wait while postcard is loading. Your pickup code is: 16719-21015-11496-18091 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Your postcard will be available for 60 days. We hope you enjoy your postcard, and if you do, please take a moment to send a few yourself! Regards, Marty & Alice at 1001 Postcards http://www.postcards.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA0E08.A7EE73F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh happy day! Angelina Godfr= ey sent you a postcard from 1001 Postcards!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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http://www.postcards.org/cards/cardreceive= php?id=3D11603834482891234412230938679009320357770&email=3Datompub-archive= @megatron.ietf.org&from=3DAngelina Godfrey

2. Please wait while postcard is loading.

Your pickup code is: 16719-= 21015-11496-18091
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

Your postcard will be availa= ble for 60 days.

We hope you enjoy your postc= ard, and if you do, please take a moment
to send a few yourself!

Regards,
Marty & Alice at 1001 Postcards
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----------------------------= ------------------------------------------------

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