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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 11:17:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A8828C25D for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:17:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id afEvpua+xIM7 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7E028C211 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12J5ads062964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:05:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12J5aQl062963; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:05:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.235]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12J5O25062940 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:05:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa.dusseault@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g9so1026701rvb.2 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=UnA5eRIaPwj2DgazLsm7dbEYSx5obL0A3iXxvEcgmBY=; b=um95YJNJs5UUUVi69mI5IQzsFm4B8ofxSqnLgbC+E58cnJcofg7lVsbimjtz7xKUgC QyqYppsKmphjzvLxWn0618LlMv3w4U+W+enOZj28Sa0P3g+7qWBrHp4qKgVVIXwao9eq Rnin6hnhrBWgxLxmKw6CteJod+3E7RWDlCdvs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vB3v+eL/pCWI+ENMsyf+I09q2gSr0HI92G7QUXbHJdyDX0WVVlBkKyjMXzl87Aue3l mEV8OwyD1SLnF+Wg5D8Per4epzbX+gIcx0n/n11PvLQ/ZR96CU98CEMZVRG6324NwTMU pwTIXU9LWfhiDbHAP7QspLpBz4/kbXAaiU/qA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.68.12 with SMTP id v12mr1234999rvk.51.1233601523881; Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:05:23 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Lisa Dusseault To: atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd14cb2a018df0461f43c36 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --000e0cd14cb2a018df0461f43c36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This request for registration of the "schema" link relation will officially come up at the Feb 12 IESG Telechat, where the IESG may approve the registration without further documentation. Comments welcome. Thx, Lisa ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Richard Salz Download (untitled) / with headers text/plain 1.3k I am writing to request a new Atom link relation, "schema" Publication of the request is here: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/soma?entry=3Da_schema_link_for= _at om The form follows. Thank you. /r$ Attribute Value schema Description This link type points to the schema used to define the content of other elements in an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is used to identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:entry" element that the link is intended for. Multiple links with the same =B3for=B3 value SHOULD have different =B3type= =B2 values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best support. This link can appear in an "atom:feed" document where it specifies the default for all feed elements. It can also appear within an "atom:entry" element. Links in an entry override any links in a feed that have the same "type" and "for" values. Expected display characteristics Generally, this link is not intended for display, although the "type" attribute would control the display characteristics. This link is intended for automated use. Security considerations As with any other link. -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ --000e0cd14cb2a018df0461f43c36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This request for registration of the "schema" link relation will = officially come up at the Feb 12 IESG Telechat, where the IESG may approve = the registration without further documentation.  Comments welcome.&nbs= p;

Thx,
Lisa

---------- Forwarded mes= sage ----------
From:     Richard Salz <rsalz@us.ibm.com>
Download (untitled) / with headers
text/plain 1.3k
I am writing to request a new Atom link relation, "schema" Public= ation of
the request is here:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/p= age/soma?entry=3Da_schema_link_for_at
om

The form follows. Thank you.

/r$

Attribute Value
schema
Description
This link type points to the schema used to define the content of
other elements in an "atom:entry" document. The "for" a= ttribute is used to
identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:entry" elemen= t that
the link is intended for.

Multiple links with the same =B3for=B3 value SHOULD have different =B3type= =B2
values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best
support.

This link can appear in an "atom:feed" document where it specifie= s the
default for all feed elements. It can also appear within an "atom:entr= y"
element. Links in an entry override any links in a feed that have the same<= br> "type" and "for" values.
Expected display characteristics
Generally, this link is not intended for display, although the "type&q= uot;
attribute would control the display characteristics. This link is intended<= br> for automated use.
Security considerations
As with any other link.
--
Visiting Member, IBM Academy
STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer
WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances
http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/


--000e0cd14cb2a018df0461f43c36-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 11:41:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F4928C11D for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:41:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpEumxSxoXff for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20C328C177 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12JZCIe065268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:35:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12JZCNG065267; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:35:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12JZ0ha065246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:35:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n12JWlde017766 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:32:47 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n12JZ0qc178086 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:35:00 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n12JYxoa002924 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:34:59 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n12JYxau002890 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:34:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Lisa Dusseault Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:34:57 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/02/2009 01:34:59 PM, Serialize complete at 02/02/2009 01:34:59 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I updated the link; I forgot to publish a correction. The "schema" link=20 relation is for items within the "atom:content" element, not the=20 "atom:entry" document. Sorry for any confusion. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org wrote on 02/02/2009 02:05:23 PM: > This request for registration of the "schema" link relation will=20 > officially come up at the Feb 12 IESG Telechat, where the IESG may=20 > approve the registration without further documentation. Comments=20 welcome.=20 >=20 > Thx, > Lisa > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Richard Salz > Download (untitled) / with headers > text/plain 1.3k > I am writing to request a new Atom link relation, "schema" Publication=20 of > the request is here: >=20 http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/soma?entry=3Da=5Fschema=5Flink= =5Ffor=5Fat > om >=20 > The form follows. Thank you. >=20 > /r$ >=20 > Attribute Value > schema > Description > This link type points to the schema used to define the content of > other elements in an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is used=20 to > identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:entry" element that > the link is intended for. >=20 > Multiple links with the same =B3for=B3 value SHOULD have different =B3typ= e=B2 > values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best > support. >=20 > This link can appear in an "atom:feed" document where it specifies the > default for all feed elements. It can also appear within an "atom:entry" > element. Links in an entry override any links in a feed that have the=20 same > "type" and "for" values. > Expected display characteristics > Generally, this link is not intended for display, although the "type" > attribute would control the display characteristics. This link is=20 intended > for automated use. > Security considerations > As with any other link. > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 11:45:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E367528C11D for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.630, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1tTh1ZT4zzy for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C72A3A68E5 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12JatMJ065393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12Jatqg065392; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n12Jaf0T065373 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:36:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Feb 2009 19:36:37 -0000 Received: from p508FBFFB.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.191.251] by mail.gmx.net (mp061) with SMTP; 02 Feb 2009 20:36:37 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+kL40+qAukP9E2YrXEvGITpx3XXJpnEJYXURCkhm KHtW+T7Dc6SNfo Message-ID: <49874B3C.3090405@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:36:28 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.57 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > Attribute Value > schema > Description > This link type points to the schema used to define the content of > other elements in an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is used to > identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:entry" element that > the link is intended for. There is no "for" attribute in RFC 4287. If this use case requires it, maybe a link relation isn't the best way to do it (instead an extension attribute?). The QName can be avoided by using the "Clark notation" ({namespace-uri}local-name). > Multiple links with the same ³for³ value SHOULD have different ³type² > values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best > support. It seems that collides a bit with RFC 4287's definition of type: "On the link element, the "type" attribute's value is an advisory media type: it is a hint about the type of the representation that is expected to be returned when the value of the href attribute is dereferenced." -- > ... Best regards, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 12:23:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881613A6839 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:23:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.294 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.294 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.305, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id esPI2oC-ksZF for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023D23A6825 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KF6Jr067899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:15:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12KF6QZ067898; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com (e4.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.144]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KEtNQ067880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n12KD3VI017796 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:13:03 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n12KEsEv187336 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:14:54 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n12KDroc009555 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:13:54 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n12KDrFL009534; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:13:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49874B3C.3090405@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, Lisa Dusseault MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:14:52 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/02/2009 02:14:54 PM, Serialize complete at 02/02/2009 02:14:54 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > There is no "for" attribute in RFC 4287. If this use case requires it, > maybe a link relation isn't the best way to do it (instead an extension > attribute?). Can you show me what you mean by extension attribute? It might not be common, but adding attributes to link elements seems legal according to the RFC. > The QName can be avoided by using the "Clark notation" > ({namespace-uri}local-name). Is there a common XSD datatype for this? I agree that if that's the strongest argument I can come up with, then... I don't care much one way or the other, whatever the group prefers. > It seems that collides a bit with RFC 4287's definition of type: I thought it was clearly in the spirit -- you can get whichever type of schema you want. Can you be a bit more specific for me? Thanks for the feedback! /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 12:38:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707163A67CF for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:38:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.582, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ll7l85FPjDQh for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E5D3A6933 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KQs40068384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:26:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12KQsO8068383; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:26:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n12KQpsT068377 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:26:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Feb 2009 20:26:50 -0000 Received: from p508FBFFB.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.191.251] by mail.gmx.net (mp056) with SMTP; 02 Feb 2009 21:26:50 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+COxxu8QmCh5JaoNrilGGHyYJI9ljYhOuyu19a0s AM5G5eim74bZli Message-ID: <49875706.1080802@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:26:46 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: atom-syntax@imc.org, Lisa Dusseault Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.6 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: >> There is no "for" attribute in RFC 4287. If this use case requires it, >> maybe a link relation isn't the best way to do it (instead an extension >> attribute?). > > Can you show me what you mean by extension attribute? It might not be > common, but adding attributes to link elements seems legal according to > the RFC. I would assume that they'd need to be in a namespace different from the default namespace, otherwise we would have a potential collision with future revisions of RFC 4287. >> The QName can be avoided by using the "Clark notation" >> ({namespace-uri}local-name). > > Is there a common XSD datatype for this? I agree that if that's the > strongest argument I can come up with, then... I don't care much one way > or the other, whatever the group prefers. I personally do not have problems with QNames in attribute values (IMHO that ship has sailed); but I wouldn't be surprised if others disagree. In this case it could easily be avoided. >> It seems that collides a bit with RFC 4287's definition of type: > > I thought it was clearly in the spirit -- you can get whichever type of > schema you want. Can you be a bit more specific for me? The type is only a hint; thus a SHOULD-level requirement not to have multiple instances of the same type seems to conflict with the advisory nature of the attribute... > ... BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 13:02:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198C83A68F3 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:02:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yh8eVyDapD1S for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85E03A6A1F for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KnmOP069415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12KnmDu069414; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from spaceymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com (lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12Knbwa069401 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (eth5126.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net [150.101.116.5]) by spaceymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0480B194EBC for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:49:37 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:49:36 +1100 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > This link type points to the schema used to define the content of an > "atom:content" element of an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is > used to identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:content" element > that the link is intended for. is @for in the undefined or null namespace? 'direct child' .. are you thinking there might be multiple direct children of atom:content, like this: ... ... e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 13:05:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6323A6AD1 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:05:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.355, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z6aD0H3+0N4W for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FF73A68F3 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KrLVT069537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12KrL7M069536; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from spaceymail-a6.g.dreamhost.com (lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12KrL6p069530 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (eth5126.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net [150.101.116.5]) by spaceymail-a6.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9253CCA812 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:53:20 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:53:21 +1100 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <49874B3C.3090405@gmx.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 3/2/09 6:36 AM, "Julian Reschke" wrote: >> Multiple links with the same =B3for=B3 value SHOULD have different =B3type=B2 >> values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best >> support. >=20 > It seems that collides a bit with RFC 4287's definition of type: >=20 > "On the link element, the "type" attribute's value is an advisory media > type: it is a hint about the type of the representation that is expected > to be returned when the value of the href attribute is dereferenced." -- > I disagree. I read that as saying there's the one schema resource which is expressed in different formats. e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 13:29:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685DB3A69ED for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.429 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.429 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.570, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U5JvFCxL2Zjm for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071453A69B7 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12LHv1A070652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12LHvkf070651; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12LHjic070634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:17:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n12LFmBB010279 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:15:48 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (d01av05.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.195]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n12LHjuT196580 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:45 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n12LHjkg026524 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:45 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n12LHiMa026521 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Eric Scheid Cc: Atom Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:43 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/02/2009 03:17:44 PM, Serialize complete at 02/02/2009 03:17:44 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > is @for in the undefined or null namespace? Yes, because there didn't seem to be a need to put it into its own namespace. I'd rather avoid the clutter, but if the WG wants a separate namespace that's fine with me. > 'direct child' .. are you thinking there might be multiple direct children > of atom:content, like this: > > > > > > ... > ... > Yes. Although I'd pick "snl:floorwax" and "snl:desert-topping" as my examples. :) /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 14:08:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955D83A6BA8 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:08:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.631, BAYES_50=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9fiV5EBfZlAL for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D4A3A6B1B for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:08:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12Lv6Wn072148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12Lv6Ol072147; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.155]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12Luugg072123 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.19]) by bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:56:55 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:56:55 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.23.192 by BAY141-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:56:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.23.192] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: "Atom Syntax" References: Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:56:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2009 21:56:55.0561 (UTC) FILETIME=[29D10790:01C98581] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Eric Scheid wrote: > 'direct child' .. are you thinking there might be multiple direct children > of atom:content, like this: > > > > > ... > ... > Is that legal? In the processing model for XML media types, RFC4287 says "this would normally mean that the atom:content element would contain a single child element", which kind of implies that it might, under certain conditions, contain more than one. But I don't see how. RFC3023 puts me to sleep, so I may have misunderstood something, but I got the impression that +xml media types were specifically reserved for actual XML documents (the whole point is a common processing model is it not?). And a well-formed XML document, by definition, has exactly one root element. So what am I missing? Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 14:59:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0734D3A6B04 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eEYXuJRm7pD0 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F411E3A6823 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12MkvJV074251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12MkvLu074250; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12Mkj5r074243 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:46:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so700492fga.26 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EP0mN6SE4nah7KADa3NMmHN10bZ+OtrmiYXo6dogz9g=; b=rujLdKkm0gZe4/YGI0nu7a0/0ILevvubK0xFFl5O0qk1vrpfLT/3vsD12L9lWSBsly eBvDxW/2SIjKIDWqk8VA/K+BHOw3Pl9XDsKhOG6SNC/XWDEPe0mZH/hejh6oSOe42c1w xKRv4fIJk2iKzv2S/NkjWarfRZeaj5r92VIjg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=l5JV77KMnXw+PgeEKexdKthgheREc85olWooii7UabcljwVbj0h4Qndt166rqH1/2c YDsVQiCqdZQiInf4OnM2R6auvCA1g2ceCzjpXZKyEcj6yf9JC7OlV9G7tb7+RYUuKaAo nFwghoEh+8dkN7TNRXtNrEfo29tTcwm+HvoKA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.4.2 with SMTP id 2mr905151fgd.50.1233614804360; Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:46:44 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Thomas Broyer To: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:56 PM, James Holderness wrote: > > Is that legal? In the processing model for XML media types, RFC4287 says > "this would normally mean that the atom:content element would contain a > single child element", which kind of implies that it might, under certain > conditions, contain more than one. But I don't see how. > > RFC3023 puts me to sleep, so I may have misunderstood something, but I got > the impression that +xml media types were specifically reserved for actual > XML documents (the whole point is a common processing model is it not?). And > a well-formed XML document, by definition, has exactly one root element. So > what am I missing? text/xml-external-parsed-entity and application/xml-external-parsed-entity Compare the 'document' production [1] with the 'extParsedEnt' one [2] in REC-xml. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-document [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-extParsedEnt (and note at the same time that text/xml-dtd and application/xml-dtd and text/xml-dtd cannot be used within atom:content as their not well-formed "parsed entities", despite being "XML media types" defined in RFC3023, as called by RFC4287 in the processing model for atom:content) (also note that RFC3023 doesn't prohibit the use of +xml for external parsed entities that are not documents) -- Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 15:09:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2B23A6B77 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:09:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xDQ7hi0yCPjz for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759DB3A6B1B for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12N1ocA074786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:01:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12N1ouL074785; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:01:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from spaceymail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12N1ogP074779 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:01:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [192.168.100.111] (unknown [202.46.135.14]) by spaceymail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8617E87085 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:01:49 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:01:48 +1100 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 3/2/09 8:56 AM, "James Holderness" wrote: > Eric Scheid wrote: > >>> This link type points to the schema used to define the content of an >>> "atom:content" element of an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is >>> used to identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:content" element >>> that the link is intended for >> >> 'direct child' .. are you thinking there might be multiple direct children >> of atom:content, like this: >> >> >> >> >> ... >> ... >> > > Is that legal? In the processing model for XML media types, RFC4287 says > "this would normally mean that the atom:content element would contain a > single child element", which kind of implies that it might, under certain > conditions, contain more than one. But I don't see how. > > RFC3023 puts me to sleep, so I may have misunderstood something, but I got > the impression that +xml media types were specifically reserved for actual > XML documents (the whole point is a common processing model is it not?). And > a well-formed XML document, by definition, has exactly one root element. So > what am I missing? I believe you are correct, especially for +xml media types. I'm hard pushed to think of any other media types which are for xml snippets/streams and thus not single-root documents. There is at least one example of an xml document with a media type which isn't +xml (I don't remember exactl what it is other than it living somewhere inside the vnd- tree) - even there it's a single-root-node xml document iirc. Rich, can you explain a bit more your thinking behind the 'direct child' distinction? Do you have examples in mind where two different schemas might apply to atom:content? ... ... e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 15:31:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545243A699C for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.969 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.969 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.630, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NUbL6WAfhDMR for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7BC93A6922 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12NHYeX075747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n12NHYph075746; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n12NHNO5075736 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:17:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bill@dehora.net) Received: from [192.168.3.166] (83-70-234-252-dynamic.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.234.252]) by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D7DDD6C3 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:17:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <49877EFF.9030909@dehora.net> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:17:19 +0000 From: Bill de hOra User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Lisa Dusseault wrote: > Attribute Value > schema > Description > This link type points to the schema used to define the content of > other elements in an "atom:entry" document. The "for" attribute is used to > identify the QName of the direct child of the "atom:entry" element that > the link is intended for. -1 for QNames in content. > Multiple links with the same ³for³ value SHOULD have different ³type² > values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best > support. Some questions: - What are the types here? - Which schema languages can validate Atom? - What should happen when validation fails (eg in an AtomPub scenario)? - What should an application do when seeing a type it does not recognize? It's not clear what the validation target is - the entry, the content, ...? Does the rel type requires a co-occurence constraint with @for? My concern is that people are going to use this a la DTDs, which means breaking with mustIgnore and applications that worked yesterday not working today. > This link is intended > for automated use. > Security considerations > As with any other link. If there is associate validation behaviour, can the type not be used to deny service? Bill From kerry.stevenson@abbottexcellence.com Mon Feb 2 15:33:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084B328C163 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:33:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, FH_HOST_EQ_DYNAMICIP=2.177, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yvyp751kh7-h for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 78.Red-83-59-231.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net (78.Red-83-59-231.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.59.231.78]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F3BA3A699F for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:33:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Email Handling Opinion Needed From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090202233301.0F3BA3A699F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:33:00 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 16:30:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F363A6B18 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:30:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.369 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.369 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.185, BAYES_40=-0.185, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UqZAd6mdxTLd for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22023A69C1 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:30:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n130LBEk078105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n130LBUM078104; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc3-s15.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s15.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.215]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n130L0jd078092 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.20]) by bay0-omc3-s15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:21:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:21:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.23.192 by BAY141-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:20:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.23.192] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: "Atom-Syntax" References: Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 00:20:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2009 00:21:00.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A817830:01C98595] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Thomas Broyer wrote: >> what am I missing? > > text/xml-external-parsed-entity and application/xml-external-parsed-entity > > Compare the 'document' production [1] with the 'extParsedEnt' one [2] > in REC-xml. > [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-document > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-extParsedEnt Ok, that makes sense. I definitely slept through that section. I slept through pretty much anything to do with "external" in the XML spec too. > (also note that RFC3023 doesn't prohibit the use of +xml for external > parsed entities that are not documents) This is the bit that really confused me, since I thought I was awake then. I guess I was thrown by the 15 occurrences of the phrase "XML document" in section 7, when they really meant any old XML entity. I should have been paying closer attention. Thanks for clearing that up. Regards James From neil_a_delucia@adp.com Mon Feb 2 17:43:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D353A6B18 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:43:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5i9SCOpkO5CQ for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from agate.plala.or.jp (unknown [201.88.208.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E4AF23A6A05 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:43:31 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Customer Receipt/Purchase Confirmation From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090203014332.E4AF23A6A05@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:43:31 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 19:15:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1AA28C228 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:15:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.271 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.271 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.127, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4SIy8DIf8b0M for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889E03A6BE3 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1338FUM086000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:08:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1338Fqx085999; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:08:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13381wx085982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1336GJo030508 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:06:16 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13380qT192780 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:08:00 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n133805U029053 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:08:00 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13380uU029048; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:08:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Eric Scheid Cc: Atom Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:07:58 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/02/2009 09:08:00 PM, Serialize complete at 02/02/2009 09:08:00 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > > > > ... > ... > This is close, the link/@for values would actually be "for='foo:blarg'" for example. I went back to the RFC and re-read 4.1.3.1. It appears that you are right, multiple top-level elements inside atom:content are not allowed. Rats. But we still need link/@for for use at the feed level, where individual atom:entry/atom:content elements might have different types of content. Does that make more sense? (Original, the schema link was intended for content in an atom:feed document, but other discussion convinced our group that "content" belonged in atom:content. When I made that change I didn't go back and carefully check this. Sorry.) /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 19:29:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB7B3A69C6 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.402, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G5H9zK2z40Dk for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81FF28C228 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n133N7Ps086952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:23:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n133N7ga086951; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:23:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com (e6.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.146]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n133MuXo086942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:23:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n133NQme017961 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:23:26 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n133MtPl196414 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:22:55 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n133Mtub019583 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:22:55 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n133MsNU019577; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:22:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49877EFF.9030909@dehora.net> To: Bill de hOra Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fwd: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:22:53 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/02/2009 09:22:54 PM, Serialize complete at 02/02/2009 09:22:54 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > -1 for QNames in content. Yeah, I don't really disagree. But I kinda dislike {uri}lname because it=20 looks too much like XSLT's AVT :) > > Multiple links with the same =B3for=B3 value SHOULD have different =B3t= ype=B2 > > values; processors are allowed to choose the schema language they best > > support. >=20 > Some questions: >=20 > - What are the types here? The types of the schema language. =20 > - Which schema languages can validate Atom? I dunno. Much of it is probably done via code, as opposed to a schema=20 language. My interest here is in being able to describe, in a=20 machine-readable way, the content of an atom:content element. =20 > - What should happen when validation fails (eg in an AtomPub scenario)? Out of scope; a server MAY reject the post. =20 > - What should an application do when seeing a type it does not=20 recognize? Ignore it, and keep looking in hope of finding a schema language=20 (link/@type) that it does understand. =20 > It's not clear what the validation target is - the entry, the content,=20 ...? Sorry, I don't understand the question. =20 > Does the rel type requires a co-occurence constraint with @for? =20 Interesting question. If the @type differs, then no (since a single @for=20 target could be described by multiple schema language). If the @type and=20 @for are the same at the feed and entry level, then no (since the=20 semantics are the entry takes precedence. But is it required that the=20 combination of @type and @for be unique at the same "level" (feed or=20 entry)? Not sure. =20 > My concern is that people are going to use this a la DTDs, which means=20 > breaking with mustIgnore and applications that worked yesterday not=20 > working today. Right now the only way to define the content of an atom:content element is = by out of band understanding. I don't see how making it possible to put=20 that information in-line breaks anything. What am I not getting? =20 > If there is associate validation behaviour, can the type not be used to=20 > deny service? Is this a question, or a preference? /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 2 21:21:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F324C3A685F for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:20:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qEylG9tmQMyz for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C513A6971 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13571h3090781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:07:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13571k5090780; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:07:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from spaceymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com (lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1356ovG090765 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:07:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [192.168.100.117] (unknown [202.46.135.14]) by spaceymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34C2194EA0 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:06:49 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:04:44 +1100 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 3/2/09 2:22 PM, "Richard Salz" wrote: >> -1 for QNames in content. > > Yeah, I don't really disagree. But I kinda dislike {uri}lname because it > looks too much like XSLT's AVT :) instead of QNames, how about something like this: (obviously, I'm only guessing at the link@type values there) e. From jim.monteith@aiclaimssolutions.com Tue Feb 3 03:35:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BFF43A67AE for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:35:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -32.864 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.864 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tk-NNrIKhjpZ for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from a1access.net (unknown [189.122.246.167]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E61583A68D3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:35:32 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: DataArt Newsletters From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090203113533.E61583A68D3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:35:32 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 08:20:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A874E3A6C41 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:20:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.627 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.627 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.828, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KMu8lb-XJct5 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7963B3A6C3F for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13GBk99023442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13GBkbA023441; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.250]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13GBZ3p023423 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so1139632ana.4 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:11:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8BKT9g/fdLHCSidXSXkM+fv51cP61kpDYgrvyscany8=; b=GfQSrqYB5r3gb/turwoU2LCViBU10erAEO7AUbaZ/LGcs0OMccIe6zWQEDfehtsDQA 7gKEBpxyhDUEI9WvgRbEQTU7BEqpRxgyap7uirsyrxfndwHuSITSAy1CiAm+oAGttZ2S jxtIsM3FeOMGBB/k8DGdNdyOhTOasSxrfzvqU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=E0mpNIGyAsHMPtuPyYjnruxA+LAcK8qTqhfWBSJ+Sehh3UTPb2/U1sSKkuBqA1VFWV q3or2nPdWxXRd1LDzA+jGDVFyW1cFOf+od9RKqylLfS636yBlWzq0Tpqs+mhJZWtduZ2 4hXrAcy+xsy5Hw7Yo6JgyBZQmih/EpfR1BaiM= Received: by 10.65.205.16 with SMTP id h16mr3363481qbq.62.1233677494458; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 12sm17623qbw.30.2009.02.03.08.11.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:11:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:11:32 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Eric Scheid , Atom Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Rich, I'm not yet convinced that the for attribute is necessary. Presumably, the schema format itself will be capable of identifying which elements it defines, meaning that a schema-aware processor could identify which schema to apply with relative ease. Further, since the atom:content element is only going to have a single top-level element, it would follow that within a single atom:entry element, there'd only ever be reason for a single schema link in the entry. schema links at the feed level don't make a lot of sense to me since the schema link itself is part of the entry metadata. Lastly, schema links at the feed level imply some kind of inheritance model for atom:link elements (e.g. an entry would inherit the schema links of the parent feed). The challenge with this is that Atom does not define any such inheritance model for atom:link and experience has shown that inheritance is not necessarily a good thing. My suggestions would be to drop the for attribute, limit the schema link to one instance per entry, and do not use schema links at the atom:feed level at all. - James Richard Salz wrote: >> >> >> >> ... >> ... >> >> > > This is close, the link/@for values would actually be "for='foo:blarg'" > for example. > > I went back to the RFC and re-read 4.1.3.1. It appears that you are > right, multiple top-level elements inside atom:content are not allowed. > Rats. But we still need link/@for for use at the feed level, where > individual atom:entry/atom:content elements might have different types of > content. Does that make more sense? > > (Original, the schema link was intended for content in an atom:feed > document, but other discussion convinced our group that "content" belonged > in atom:content. When I made that change I didn't go back and carefully > check this. Sorry.) > > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 08:50:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D897028C105 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:50:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.964 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.964 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.635, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fl67gew1LxSm for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971D728C0FC for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:50:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13GgLvA024950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13GgLVC024949; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com (e6.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.146]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13Gg9Kx024935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13Gge24032490 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:42:40 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13Gg8jU146344 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:42:08 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13Gf7ZT006382 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:41:07 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13Gf60H006288; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:41:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> To: James M Snell Cc: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:42:05 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 10:42:07 AM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 10:42:07 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Without a schema link at the feed level, how can a client know what the server is expecting to see? Just as atom entries in a feed can be a mix of text, html, xhtml, why can't they be a mix of schema-defined entries? The syntax of text, html, xhtml are defined out-of-band in the Atom RFC's. I'd like to make it possible to define them in-band in a feed dcoument. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:04:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C5128C237 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:04:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.899, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8cnmo-VwRnZq for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD72128C228 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13Gv7xP025844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13Gv7HX025843; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qy0-f20.google.com (mail-qy0-f20.google.com [209.85.221.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13GutCp025814 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so4015918qyk.10 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:56:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eIi4Rvk7aQNsB0N2sy7m16vqRttC/maN+ZegzAg1/7E=; b=x69S5R7WQDBUyRclvJdveuSsR4SGF0jq0c7X8tNI/5fv3a26ulMIZNPXIK5fSe+Gvd lUNS+xB+Dw6Tsc0BSdCOTedA8wv24/CCZm4ZJRA8YgMOaLJ14XyIRmIoGh1fScDXNZp+ m5gFj88j5tyviIqro29xWiCyTLnkZ4EXO+TLU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JsZDto5nASJfTTf/agnjWaNYfyn6O2MRM9eXw2VvUyiDKr/axzjiZtHQhQSNSOYgyW u63rc7YHxZ5O/OLLJOIKyrmn3zJ7swqFcac2Ngqresac31ChSAmO4TlBB8MIpzGT1tjg uGJYEQjLJIkbmkYCPxEKt6UsCZ72ZHC/6Smck= Received: by 10.215.12.16 with SMTP id p16mr8368071qai.235.1233680215584; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm3392434qwk.42.2009.02.03.08.56.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49887756.7050101@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:56:54 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: > Without a schema link at the feed level, how can a client know what the > server is expecting to see? > > That's a different case. A schema link within the atom:entry is used to identify the schema of the top-level element within atom:content. Schema links within the atom:feed can be used to identify the schema(s) of the types of top-level elements that should appear within the feed. Those are two separate cases, neither of which requires the invention of the for attribute. > Just as atom entries in a feed can be a mix of text, html, xhtml, why > can't they be a mix of schema-defined entries? The syntax of text, html, > xhtml are defined out-of-band in the Atom RFC's. I'd like to make it > possible to define them in-band in a feed dcoument. > > This is fine but if you go down this route, there are many issues that need to be dealt with. If you allow schema links at the atom:feed, does that mean the content of all entries in the feed has to conform to that schema? What if the entry has a schema link that conflicts with a feed level schema link? What if there are multiple schema links that specify the same value for the for attribute? If you take an entry from an atom:feed containing a schema link and put it into another feed, should the schema link be added to the entry or should an atom:source element be added containing the schema link? I think you need to very clearly define how this is all going to work. - James > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:17:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C5F3A6B9F for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:17:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.356, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rMAwbEq+x2o0 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C863A6B17 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13H7vZR026329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13H7vVD026328; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com (e6.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.146]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13H7tsG026316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13H8QUg001588 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:08:26 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (d01av05.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.195]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13H7sEd139642 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:07:54 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13H4SLj004313 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:07:54 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13BYPup021321; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:34:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Eric Scheid Cc: Atom Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:34:23 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 05:34:25 AM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 05:34:25 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: It's an interesting idea. You could get similar effect by using xml:id. But then there's no way to specify in an atom:feed what data the server wants (or will be providing) for the atom:entry's. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:24:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F4A3A6B2E for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:24:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.81 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.81 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.611, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uulisjQ8TJLi for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB563A68ED for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:23:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HBuHG026558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HBux8026557; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HBhvs026530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13H9wXp003917 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:09:58 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13HBh05177328 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:11:43 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13HBhvU022985 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:11:43 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13HBhlS022960; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:11:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49887756.7050101@gmail.com> To: James M Snell Cc: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:11:41 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 11:11:43 AM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 11:11:43 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > Schema > links within the atom:feed can be used to identify the schema(s) of the > types of top-level elements that should appear within the feed. Those > are two separate cases, neither of which requires the invention of the > for attribute. Yes, since atom:content can only have a single child element, then the @for is superfluous. But I don't understand how to meet the feed issue without the @for -- can you show me how? Let's say I have a feed that accepts tns:esb entries and snl:foobar entries. > This is fine but if you go down this route, there are many issues that > need to be dealt with. It's not clear to me that every single semantic needs to be completely nailed down (viz, http://www.dehora.net/journal/2009/02/03/just-use-post/). Looking at RFC 5005, what if a feed contains multiple conflicting archive links? I'll meet the requirements, I just don't want to be a special case :) /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:33:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8803A6B96 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.388, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7dhmS+DMYheY for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA403A6407 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HQHZU027227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HQHeU027226; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.246]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HQ6Le027209 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so1163024ana.4 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:26:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RLZPYdeeWEV0zWI0f0RlABAc5Y8z66WXj63H1n7cHM8=; b=k5DSsbuZXV2b5l9bE1znXMR+ZOdAKTwbUkVwu4P0dafAG4HTHp1+PyRhQewX+rZUKu 2KA/3eyPfNj0gLPQnn7Hl77rEvQY445ihFWW7z8hRUTMt8taJDQDto6op0yAgyOkteR3 ljoVNKbWDcA5mZNjvqEwXRG8EKeoNeGbn39fw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=h9Y9qhnshBS5tvOdj12+lLBARxfebclR3XH89p9zyzbWxhHmUXTyrFi5otMlHWSPv7 xCO35c9R52X2M+pLRNk0lY3kL+vQCdGdSrUAFHka0vTLds+oMIkWk42oUr2z4C5cjVqk v23FfKQtcAZJArb5f1RwqH9Dk0p1vZRNMi6aw= Received: by 10.65.97.16 with SMTP id z16mr3402400qbl.46.1233681965535; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s30sm230932qbs.20.2009.02.03.09.26.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:26:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49887E2C.7050907@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:26:04 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Eric Scheid , Atom Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: FWIW, you should probably also be looking at how to provide some of this information in the Atompub Service Document. Richard Salz wrote: > It's an interesting idea. You could get similar effect by using xml:id. > But then there's no way to specify in an atom:feed what data the server > wants (or will be providing) for the atom:entry's. > > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:35:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B013A6B96 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.519, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRyZN2omuDGT for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73893A6407 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HLA0V027002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HLAJt027001; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n13HKwIc026981 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2009 17:20:57 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp062) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2009 18:20:57 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/gXX5s7F/gZSuN/r4xwzUpk7dECcdKQofpIRogp9 sQeynW8uWCPQ3b Message-ID: <49887CF5.4050904@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:20:53 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James M Snell CC: Richard Salz , Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: <49887756.7050101@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49887756.7050101@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.64 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: James M Snell wrote: > ... > This is fine but if you go down this route, there are many issues that > need to be dealt with. If you allow schema links at the atom:feed, does > that mean the content of all entries in the feed has to conform to that > schema? What if the entry has a schema link that conflicts with a feed > level schema link? What if there are multiple schema links that specify > the same value for the for attribute? If you take an entry from an > atom:feed containing a schema link and put it into another feed, should > the schema link be added to the entry or should an atom:source element > be added containing the schema link? I think you need to very clearly > define how this is all going to work. > ... In particular, what happens to the rule "ignore foreign markup"? () Wouldn't a server that XML-Schema-validates a given part of the document be violating this principle (unless it's a schema that has been explicitly designed to allow foreign markup)? BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:35:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9004B3A6B96 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.549, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gX+fz+s0vhz0 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA6D3A6407 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HLnvY027042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HLnDp027041; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.144]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HLbVe027023 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:21:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 9so681607qwj.28 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:21:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pt0gc0Y+369PepWuca5IJBcBwbiQ0/5zPxTO3IYVvz0=; b=pU5aLX0lnyFGvkxqM0bsF9uhmQIMWSdMWWalcHIRcoJ8uqS7X9Rw8OPXzkulbIfhlU nlVlHfIyo3Na6tyW15KZW887i3UFGm9FzKDrN+piKkiGXpypoSwcWRdC3UnVqe2OGaSr nxeNn2JFz6PZzRC69XciG6Gdd/pUWHkYNdgVk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ev3ML53phcUVRrp9I5EPPYaaU3OvIgbmcb1wqY4I02rtCezXboxl840c/XVvr3d0tr dlrVHayYnxxSfVfDciNzNk+EkZ9N1GhHzwAszBelaKATOSSE71A7VIPE4t0Pgp/FjAya c/fuzxj48Nly3Hr56WkPCT/qAHUcoc0dtybTk= Received: by 10.214.78.4 with SMTP id a4mr1914222qab.118.1233681680770; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8sm3295692qwj.43.2009.02.03.09.21.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:21:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49887D10.1070905@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:21:20 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: >> Schema >> links within the atom:feed can be used to identify the schema(s) of the >> types of top-level elements that should appear within the feed. Those >> are two separate cases, neither of which requires the invention of the >> for attribute. >> > > Yes, since atom:content can only have a single child element, then the > @for is superfluous. But I don't understand how to meet the feed issue > without the @for -- can you show me how? Let's say I have a feed that > accepts tns:esb entries and snl:foobar entries. > > A schema-link-aware client is likely going to be able to look at the schema itself to determine what kind of element is defines without the use of the for attribute. >> This is fine but if you go down this route, there are many issues that >> need to be dealt with. >> > > It's not clear to me that every single semantic needs to be completely > nailed down (viz, > http://www.dehora.net/journal/2009/02/03/just-use-post/). Looking at RFC > 5005, what if a feed contains multiple conflicting archive links? I'll > meet the requirements, I just don't want to be a special case :) > > Of course there's no need to define everything but there are simple steps you can take o reduce the number of things that need to be explained. - James > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 09:57:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63D028C1E9 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.942 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.942 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.657, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WucNN2Ly0NjO for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDC228C22B for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:57:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HPWVY027185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:25:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HPWdQ027184; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:25:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HPUlZ027177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:25:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13HNj5k002864 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:23:45 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13HPUhD193600 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:30 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13HPThc014679 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:29 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13HPTcD014660; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49887CF5.4050904@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , James M Snell , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:27 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 11:25:29 AM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 11:25:29 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > In particular, what happens to the rule "ignore foreign markup"? > () That's a requirement on clients receiving Atom, and not atompub servers, isn't it? /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 10:00:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A9A3A6C43 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:00:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.708 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.708 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.291, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4LN5bPtbsEAo for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C075D3A6C3B for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:00:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13Hptp5028019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HptHc028018; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com (e6.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.146]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HprLD028012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13HqOMR022239 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:52:24 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13HprCX164726 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:51:53 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13Hpqm1027990 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:51:52 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13Hpq01027984 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:51:52 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49887D10.1070905@gmail.com> To: James M Snell Cc: Atom Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:51:50 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 11:51:52 AM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 11:51:52 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > A schema-link-aware client is likely going to be able to look at the > schema itself to determine what kind of element is defines without the > use of the for attribute. But that requires the client to fetch all the schema's that are defined. That's probably okay for a client that is creating entries, since it will be set up to only write a specific set of entries anyway, but it's not clear to me that it's okay for a client that is GET'ing entries. If people feel strongly that @for is a premature optimization, oh well. > Of course there's no need to define everything but there are simple > steps you can take o reduce the number of things that need to be explained. I will take another look at your questions. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 10:07:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910B43A6C31 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.821, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id toOYYXfIr+Yn for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784083A6407 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:07:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13HxfDi028280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13HxfWa028279; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n13Hxd0E028272 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:59:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2009 17:59:38 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2009 18:59:38 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/cRU9b8UTcWVDz2ArA5wGBtHyG6pI1APDBNStT0Y jQb2Vv0QdJAGv4 Message-ID: <49888605.3080605@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:59:33 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , James M Snell , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.58 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: >> In particular, what happens to the rule "ignore foreign markup"? >> () > > That's a requirement on clients receiving Atom, and not atompub servers, > isn't it? OK, let's try then: "Processors that encounter foreign markup MUST NOT stop processing and MUST NOT signal an error. Clients SHOULD preserve foreign markup when transmitting such documents." BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 10:18:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A713A6829 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:18:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.034 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.565, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4tM1yqCP99j4 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2876B3A6982 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13I5uPZ028647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13I5u9L028646; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13I5s0m028633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13I48RW027299 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:04:08 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (d01av05.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.195]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13I5r73123006 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:05:53 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13I5rAI004929 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:05:53 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13I5r9S004923; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:05:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49888605.3080605@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom Syntax , Eric Scheid , James M Snell , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:05:52 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 12:05:53 PM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 12:05:53 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > OK, let's try > then: That seems to refer only to the category and service documents. I think section 4.4 dominates -- the server can do whatever it wants with the content that is submitted. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 10:22:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF0C3A6407 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.482 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.482 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WAqvEdccjD4 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08543A6829 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13IABhj028892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:10:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13IABvK028891; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:10:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13IA9ma028885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13I8OaI003523 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:08:24 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13IA9VD065812 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:10:09 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13I98O5007088 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:09:08 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13I97Hj007073 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:09:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: <49887E2C.7050907@gmail.com> To: James M Snell Cc: Atom Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:10:06 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 12:10:08 PM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 12:10:08 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Going through the questions you posted earlier: > If you allow schema links at the atom:feed, does that mean > the content of all entries in the feed has to conform to that > schema? Any content that has a schema is expected to conform to that schema. If a client does a GET, there may be entries that are not described by a schema; there is no requirement that every entry have a schema link. I thought that was obvious -- do I need to make it explicit? If a client POST's an entry that does not conform, the server may reject it. I also thought that was obvious under section 4.4 of 5023. > What if the entry has a schema link that conflicts with a feed level schema link? This is described in the proposal: on GET, the entry-level link takes precedence. POST is described above. > What if there are multiple schema links that specify the same value for the for attribute? And same type of schema language? A very good question. My preference would be to say that this is sytem-dependant, subject to the whims of the validating behavior. > If you take an entry from an atom:feed containing a schema link and > put it into another feed, should the schema link be added to the entry > or should an atom:source element be added containing the schema link? Is it really necessary to answer this? Can't it be left up to the server? /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 11:39:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F02E3A6C48 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.109, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id olIQ+NNiwoQa for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F416A3A68B3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13JPIgR032294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13JPI3g032293; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com (yx-out-1718.google.com [74.125.44.158]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13JP7xV032280 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 36so808510yxh.4 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:25:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lmf6J8sVIOaAi6Z64tXRI29gi6Qcu751qWudX1mociU=; b=dXhXP2ldUySw5+6BKnSBkB1htxjFPXoMnm2c+ATcr3awnQMDS1cBe0o6xPTOVOZBSv xdV2XcLRFEuJXuQCgHh0XdnS8HanO+8s11CCTw/f4eS1549ayl/K8oheOpbOtLx/APUg b9TEd+DGmJOJY8SbwNB3uzEzdVCB/7D+e+Q0g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=KJGh8MymRftdsVy1H8Gdmy+rudRZd8F4dDI78mpt09F/s1Ik3tLuopjnFslyNn6wkf 6CQ4geb05/f6luLgWdrIrerZ8Hxb/P0mzC9wSBSoXE/ZxHhf8Te9+AamD8+d8FvuVH7e AKHsA68Lj3KCmiTJimdii5bm6BNXE6vJ3nvM8= Received: by 10.65.59.11 with SMTP id m11mr3456654qbk.90.1233689106579; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:25:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p9sm339465qbp.4.2009.02.03.11.25.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:25:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49889A06.8040605@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:24:54 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: > Going through the questions you posted earlier: > > >> If you allow schema links at the atom:feed, does that mean >> the content of all entries in the feed has to conform to that >> schema? >> > > Any content that has a schema is expected to conform to that schema. If a > client does a GET, there may be entries that are not described by a > schema; there is no requirement that every entry have a schema link. I > thought that was obvious -- do I need to make it explicit? If a client > POST's an entry that does not conform, the server may reject it. I also > thought that was obvious under section 4.4 of 5023. > > Ok, so this implies that entries contained in an atom:feed do not inherit the schema links of the parent atom:feed. That's a good thing and should be stated explicitly. >> What if the entry has a schema link that conflicts with a feed level >> > schema link? > > This is described in the proposal: on GET, the entry-level link takes > precedence. POST is described above. > > See above. As long as the atom:entry is not expected to inherit the schema link of the atom:feed, this is not an issue. >> What if there are multiple schema links that specify the same value for >> > the for attribute? > > And same type of schema language? A very good question. My preference > would be to say that this is sytem-dependant, subject to the whims of the > validating behavior. > > Works for me. >> If you take an entry from an atom:feed containing a schema link and >> put it into another feed, should the schema link be added to the entry >> or should an atom:source element be added containing the schema link? >> > > Is it really necessary to answer this? Can't it be left up to the server? > > If the atom:entry does not inherit the schema links of the atom:feed this becomes a non-issue. - James > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 12:16:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C6928C170 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:16:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.900, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BxE4i93zIXt3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9337C28C150 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13K9Kc2034781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13K9Kj7034780; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13K99Po034763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13K9CFP004379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:09:13 GMT Received: from acsmt707.oracle.com (acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13K96H9018880; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:09:08 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:09:05 -0800 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: <97598DE6-CFB5-4B14-ADEB-1CF08B26A41A@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Richard Salz In-Reply-To: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:08:25 -0800 References: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A09020A.4988A462.025A:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: This proposal seems to cover two very distinct use cases: 1. Provide a way to discover the schema used for the foreign markup used in an entry served by a feed server 2. Issue a contract to be used by the client to submit new entries to the server For 1, this proposal seems to create an alternative to XML Schema instance mechanisms [1]. Any foreign markup in an entry, including that which is present inside the atpm:content is free to add the xsi markup to help the processor identify the schema by which that element should be processed. Of course, this mechanism works only for W3C XML schema-based documents. The present proposal is weakened by the presence of such an existing mechanism for the first use case. To illustrate this, take the following example: ... ... ... ... For the second use case, it is best to provide this information in the context of a collection's metadata alongside existing constraints on what a server may (or not) accept. app:collection serves the purpose of just such a container and can be used inside a feed. One of the necessary things here might be the target for usage of elements from some foreign (non XHTML and Atom) namespaces. For example, a feed may advertise what data can be added to it thusly: named_element named_element ... application/atom+xml ... ... ... ... Nikunj [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#xsi_schemaLocation On Feb 3, 2009, at 8:11 AM, James M Snell wrote: > > Rich, > > I'm not yet convinced that the for attribute is necessary. > Presumably, the schema format itself will be capable of identifying > which elements it defines, meaning that a schema-aware processor > could identify which schema to apply with relative ease. Further, > since the atom:content element is only going to have a single top- > level element, it would follow that within a single atom:entry > element, there'd only ever be reason for a single schema link in the > entry. schema links at the feed level don't make a lot of sense to > me since the schema link itself is part of the entry metadata. > Lastly, schema links at the feed level imply some kind of > inheritance model for atom:link elements (e.g. an entry would > inherit the schema links of the parent feed). The challenge with > this is that Atom does not define any such inheritance model for > atom:link and experience has shown that inheritance is not > necessarily a good thing. > > My suggestions would be to drop the for attribute, limit the schema > link to one instance per entry, and do not use schema links at the > atom:feed level at all. > > - James > > Richard Salz wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> ... >>> ... >>> >>> >> >> This is close, the link/@for values would actually be >> "for='foo:blarg'" for example. >> >> I went back to the RFC and re-read 4.1.3.1. It appears that you >> are right, multiple top-level elements inside atom:content are not >> allowed. Rats. But we still need link/@for for use at the feed >> level, where individual atom:entry/atom:content elements might have >> different types of content. Does that make more sense? >> >> (Original, the schema link was intended for content in an atom:feed >> document, but other discussion convinced our group that "content" >> belonged in atom:content. When I made that change I didn't go back >> and carefully check this. Sorry.) >> >> /r$ >> >> -- >> Visiting Member, IBM Academy >> STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer >> WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances >> http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ >> >> >> > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 12:39:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D093828C0D6 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:39:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EEJDME9eHgy9 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95583A695B for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13KPi3U036385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13KPi2D036384; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mwest.oreilly.com (mwest.oreilly.com [209.204.146.24]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13KPWpo036374 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from keith@oreilly.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B9D7DB4013; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:32 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at hugo.west.ora.com Received: from mwest.oreilly.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hugo.west.ora.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hx1MRsPZjodc; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from MacKeith.local (unknown [172.24.41.29]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7532A7DB4005; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:25:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4988A83B.5070507@oreilly.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:25:31 -0800 From: Keith Fahlgren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20081204 Thunderbird/3.0b1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikunj Mehta CC: Richard Salz , Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> <97598DE6-CFB5-4B14-ADEB-1CF08B26A41A@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <97598DE6-CFB5-4B14-ADEB-1CF08B26A41A@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 2/3/09 12:08 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > > 1. Provide a way to discover the schema used for the foreign markup used > in an entry served by a feed server > 2. Issue a contract to be used by the client to submit new entries to > the server > > For 1, this proposal seems to create an alternative to XML Schema > instance mechanisms [1] Just, FTR, both of these are getting real world, adhoc implementations. At O'Reilly, an AtomPub server validates all of the collections that application/docbook+xml against the DocBook 4.4 DTD (our fave) (so XSI isn't useful). Additionally, we're talking about (so XSI isn't useful) Schematron validation to ensure that all entries in a Collection have embedded RDF needed to identify them. HTH, Keith -- Keith Fahlgren Publishing Technology Engineer O'Reilly Media From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 14:49:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB773A6B9F for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:49:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.075 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.075 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.524, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4RdO-3n6povy for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9AD3A6A30 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13MLelu041762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:21:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13MLepK041761; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:21:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com (e6.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.146]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13MLS7A041754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:21:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n13MM0CW009595 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:22:00 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n13MLRrU195820 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:28 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n13MLRxF011709 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:27 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n13MLRfX011701; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: <97598DE6-CFB5-4B14-ADEB-1CF08B26A41A@oracle.com> To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: Atom Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:24 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 04:21:27 PM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 04:21:27 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: That's an insightful way of looking at it. I don't think the usecase is weakened by the existance of XSD's schemaLocation attribute. At least not within the Atom/AtomPub community, which seems to like RelaxNG as its schema language. Putting schema links in the collection document make sense. But having them in the feed document provides a contract to those doing GET, as well as those doing POST. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 15:45:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCC63A6BF0 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:45:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wz6y7V9jFMxO for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8BC73A67E9 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13NYrM1044572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13NYrHd044571; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13NYgwL044562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13NYEDo011873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:34:15 GMT Received: from acsmt707.oracle.com (acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13NYcBi029116; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:34:40 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:34:36 -0800 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: From: Nikunj Mehta To: Keith Fahlgren In-Reply-To: <4988A83B.5070507@oreilly.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:34:00 -0800 References: <49886CB4.5070501@gmail.com> <97598DE6-CFB5-4B14-ADEB-1CF08B26A41A@oracle.com> <4988A83B.5070507@oreilly.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: acsmt707.oracle.com [141.146.40.85] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4988D48E.0205:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Feb 3, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: > > On 2/3/09 12:08 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: >> >> 1. Provide a way to discover the schema used for the foreign markup >> used >> in an entry served by a feed server >> 2. Issue a contract to be used by the client to submit new entries to >> the server >> >> For 1, this proposal seems to create an alternative to XML Schema >> instance mechanisms [1] > > Just, FTR, both of these are getting real world, adhoc > implementations. At O'Reilly, an AtomPub server validates all of the > collections that application/docbook+xml against > the DocBook 4.4 DTD (our fave) (so XSI isn't useful). Additionally, > we're talking about (so XSI isn't useful) Schematron validation to > ensure that all entries in a Collection have embedded RDF needed to > identify them. I don't find xsi very useful either, especially if the schema is defined in a MIME-type. In the absence of a dedicated MIME-type for the contents of the atom:content element with @type="application/xml", though, we need something in the app:accept block. > > > > HTH, > Keith > > -- > Keith Fahlgren > Publishing Technology Engineer > O'Reilly Media > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 15:47:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31703A6856 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:47:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.923 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aSt6TmPK-RpB for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0292E3A6C55 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13NXErl044519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n13NXEks044518; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n13NX3pG044510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:33:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13NWwO7016736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:33:00 GMT Received: from acsmt704.oracle.com (acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n13NWvgG007974; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:32:59 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:32:56 -0800 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: From: Nikunj Mehta To: Richard Salz In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:32:19 -0800 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A09020B.4988D42A.0127:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Feb 3, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Richard Salz wrote: > That's an insightful way of looking at it. > > I don't think the usecase is weakened by the existance of XSD's > schemaLocation attribute. At least not within the Atom/AtomPub > community, > which seems to like RelaxNG as its schema language. No matter what language you are using to describe schemas, an approach that marks the location of a schema document used for an XML namespace appears superior, IMHO. This allows flexibility of adding markup at any level inside an entry document and not just in the atom:content block, which happens to be another real-world use of Atom syntax. > > > Putting schema links in the collection document make sense. But > having > them in the feed document provides a contract to those doing GET, as > well > as those doing POST. There is a very well established precedent that any contracts related to POST should appear in the app:collection. The category and accept blocks are testimony to this. Moreover, one can treat the proposal primarily as a way to qualify application/xml and that can be done as one of the two mechanisms below inside the app:collection element: application/ xml named_element named_element ... application/atom+xml > > > /r$ > > -- > Visiting Member, IBM Academy > STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer > WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances > http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 16:32:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0EA3A67D1 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:32:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_SOMA2=2.199, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9HlNKPwL0xOJ for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39283A63D3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n140LhPt047459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n140LhHS047458; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mwest.oreilly.com (mwest.oreilly.com [209.204.146.24]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n140LWBd047348 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:21:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from keith@oreilly.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9597DB4028; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:21:32 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: <2U+ZXvWzgTXJ> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at hugo.west.ora.com Received: from mwest.oreilly.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hugo.west.ora.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2U+ZXvWzgTXJ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from MacKeith.local (unknown [172.24.41.29]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24957DB4005; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:21:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4988DF8A.8070102@oreilly.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:21:30 -0800 From: Keith Fahlgren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20081204 Thunderbird/3.0b1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikunj Mehta CC: Richard Salz , Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 2/3/09 3:32 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > schema:element="...">application/xml Hmmm... I've got a problem with my DocBook 4.4 not being namespaced & using a DTD whereas my DocBook 5 using RNG, has a @version, and a namespace. Is this how I say that my collection only accepts DocBook 5? application/docbook+xml and @schema:element="book" would mean that I only allowed {http://docbook.org/ns/docbook}books? Thanks, Keith -- Keith Fahlgren Publishing Technology Engineer O'Reilly Media From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 17:02:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC543A6827 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:02:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.139 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.139 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.740, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_SOMA2=2.199, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PNmmY8oFy1WA for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BDC3A67DB for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n140kHcI048148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n140kHAl048147; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n140kGBw048141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n140jnUj012018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:45:50 GMT Received: from acsmt703.oracle.com (acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n140kDEO000833; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:46:14 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:46:11 -0800 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: <146B1F73-FE90-477A-8917-91D5B9452A91@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Keith Fahlgren In-Reply-To: <4988DF8A.8070102@oreilly.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:45:34 -0800 References: <4988DF8A.8070102@oreilly.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4988E555.01CD:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Just to clarify, you are referring to the media portions of AtomPub as opposed to Richard Salz who is looking to support the Atom entries. The extended attribute mechanisms you suggest are a good way to do media resources. The extended element mechanism I suggested in [1] seems better suited to non-media Atom entries. Nikunj [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20912.html On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Keith Fahlgren wrote: > On 2/3/09 3:32 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: >> > schema:element="...">application/xml > > Hmmm... I've got a problem with my DocBook 4.4 not being namespaced > & using a DTD whereas my DocBook 5 using RNG, has a @version, and a > namespace. > > > Is this how I say that my collection only accepts DocBook 5? > schema:type="application/relax-ng-compact-syntax" > schema:link="http://www.docbook.org/xml/5.0/rng/docbook.rnc > " > schema:version="5">application/docbook+xml > > and @schema:element="book" would mean that I only allowed {http://docbook.org/ns/docbook > }books? > > > Thanks, > Keith > -- > Keith Fahlgren > Publishing Technology Engineer > O'Reilly Media From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 3 18:30:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F95F3A63D3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:30:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bH5JiwiiPYlc for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8D13A6806 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n142MZOY052494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n142MZkG052493; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n142MOji052486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n142K8Nk016488 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:20:08 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n142MNqq183084 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:22:23 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n142MNSM010946 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:22:23 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n142MMPe010938; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:22:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: Atom Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Management Item: Request for ATOM Link Relation [IANA #209057] X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:22:20 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2|August 07, 2008) at 02/03/2009 08:22:22 PM, Serialize complete at 02/03/2009 08:22:22 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > No matter what language you are using to describe schemas, an approach > that marks the location of a schema document used for an XML namespace > appears superior, IMHO. That doesn't work for schema languages that do not support XML namespaces, such as DTD, ASN.1, DMTF, etc. (I am currently most interested in the last.) > There is a very well established precedent that any contracts related > to POST should appear in the app:collection. And for GET'ing a feed or entries? > Moreover, one can treat the proposal primarily as a way to qualify > > application/xml The schema link relation does more than just tell POST'ers what it will accept; it tells GET'ers what they can expect to receive. As I expect readers to outnumber writers, that latter is very important. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From jonas@agcorp.com Tue Feb 3 19:04:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561653A6BD0 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:04:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.262 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.262 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmL+ByKqWj2x for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-58-9-55-215.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-9-55-215.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.9.55.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A0FC3A6B40 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:04:21 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: ALM Works From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090204030422.5A0FC3A6B40@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:04:21 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 6 11:38:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0EC3A6829 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:38:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BWp+dNAgVi4n for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACA83A6919 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:38:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n16JTuPc062029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n16JTuYK062028; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com (rv-out-0708.google.com [209.85.198.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n16JTjiR062017 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa.dusseault@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so1093168rvf.34 for ; Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:29:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=1CmBcVjLfxgIHEKpeTXKpGs4oIxNUNJxH4SEHvo46J0=; b=xpdV37RWWlqzxJD9ddxjmO6wNoD8jqrlMUHpE5CY05DZW+qkxqpp+UiSrBANpYSLlA GdrKHMt5zpO3ob1LQ2859ETq2ni2ymwH8DoVkc0q1vX6wTyLKigxaQ5yyeL5kgQqmjAu Euo8SXQO/XE8m1M2AgnoR5gbERmLxof+tDnco= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=g4F0Sjs62b3EvGTjFqCpwo2nCfHhq/VIh6Qhv6BW7SHTzNHfvFKqmvXW/NxYxW3wlr anUV/0sPUCR/5YOYcnygYAYjgUeKGAKIo/NExWJRLsTm0Xx0GW/xIEGmYULhPQy6OpTd 0V4OBKfXeMYCUviG+uUbf88PXHepGKklPIEMk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.141.3 with SMTP id t3mr1554781rvn.3.1233948585204; Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:29:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:29:45 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Link relation registry request for "describedby" From: Lisa Dusseault To: atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2bdf4179d080462450b77 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --000e0cd2bdf4179d080462450b77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since this link relation is based on the POWDER stuff, it is pretty well-baked. Any input on approving this link relation registry request? Thanks, Lisa ---- From: Phil Archer Download (untitled) / with headers text/plain 1.3k This is a request to make a new entry in the Atom Link Relations registry [1]. Attribute Value: describedby Description: The relationship A 'describedby' B asserts that resource B provides a description of resource A. There are no constraints on the format or representation of either A or B, neither are there any further constraints on either resource. Expected display characteristics: None Security considerations: Descriptions of resources may be socially sensitive, may require processing to be understood and may or may not not be accurate. Consumers of descriptive resources should be aware of the source and chain of custody of the data. Security considerations for URIs (Section 7 of RFC 3986) and IRIs (Section 8 of RFC 3987 ) apply to the extent that describing resources may affect consumers' decisions about how or whether to retrieve those resources. Documentation: Future stable URI: http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-dr/#assoc-linking Temporary URI at the time of submission: http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-dr/20090204-diff.html#assoc-linki ng (requires W3C Member access). An unrestricted version of the same document is available at http://philarcher.org/powder/dr/20090204-diff.html#assoc-linking [1] http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml --000e0cd2bdf4179d080462450b77 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since this link relation is based on the POWDER stuff, it is pretty well-ba= ked.  Any input on approving this link relation registry request?
<= br>Thanks,
Lisa

----

Fro= m:     Phil Archer <phi= l@philarcher.org>
Download (untitled) / with headers
text/plain 1.3k
This is a request to make a new entry in the Atom Link Relations
registry [1].

Attribute Value: describedby

Description: The relationship A 'describedby' B asserts that resour= ce B
provides a description of resource A. There are no constraints on the
format or representation of either A or B, neither are there any further constraints on either resource.

Expected display characteristics: None

Security considerations:
Descriptions of resources may be socially sensitive, may require
processing to be understood and may or may not not be accurate.
Consumers of descriptive resources should be aware of the source and
chain of custody of the data. Security considerations for URIs (Section
7 of RFC 3986) and IRIs (Section 8 of RFC 3987 ) apply to the extent
that describing resources may affect consumers' decisions about how or<= br> whether to retrieve those resources.

Documentation:
Future stable URI: http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-dr/#assoc-linking
Temporary URI at the time of submission:
http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-dr/20090204-diff.html#assoc-lin= ki
ng
(requires W3C Member access).

An unrestricted version of the same document is available at
http://philarcher.org/powder/dr/20090204-diff.html#assoc-linking




[1]
http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/l= ink-relations.xhtml

--000e0cd2bdf4179d080462450b77-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 6 11:59:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2123A68AC for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:59:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BjA923whfoTM for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA31F3A67D6 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n16JlDoF062882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n16JlDkv062881; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n16Jl1Yv062869 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:47:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 06 Feb 2009 19:47:00 -0000 Received: from p508FBDB0.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.189.176] by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 06 Feb 2009 20:47:00 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/EGj1xI8bEAuEtiRMBb8vK0CSg7YW1NNQuWkb8AY QUW6WDya/+cfQ3 Message-ID: <498C93AD.6080801@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:53 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: Link relation registry request for "describedby" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.52 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Lisa Dusseault wrote: > Since this link relation is based on the POWDER stuff, it is pretty > well-baked. Any input on approving this link relation registry request? > > Thanks, > Lisa > ... I'm (still) puzzled by the fact that the specification tries to register a short name for use in HTML link/@rel and in Atom relations, but then goes on defining a relation URI for use in RDF contexts -- : "4.1.3 Semantic Linkage Using the describedby Property We define the RDF property wdrs:describedby with a domain of rdf:resource and a range of wdrs:Document. This is the class of POWDER documents and is a sub class of owl:Ontology. In formats that support RDF properties directly it is appropriate to link a resource to a POWDER document that describes it through the wdrs:describedby predicate rather than the describedby relationship type. For example, a document might be part of a collection about a particular topic described in a DR. Such a document might be annotated using RDFa as shown in example 4-2 below. Example 4-2: RDFa snippet using wdrs:describedby [HTML] 1 4 5 The English Civil War 6 7 8 9 … 10

Charles I came to the throne believing in his 11 Divine Right to rule… 12 … 13 14 " So if the URI for use as relation name in RDF is "http://www.w3.org/2007/05/powder-s#describedby" why not use the same URI in Atom? BR, Julian From kelliboo1992@ageun.com Sat Feb 7 12:39:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D7D3A693B for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:39:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.282 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mYfu1vK2XUoF for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from host59-213-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it (host158-205-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it [87.14.205.158]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 22CD63A68DB for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:39:33 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: You've received an answer to your question From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090207203934.22CD63A68DB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:39:33 -0800 (PST)

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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Feb 7 16:34:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74B63A6A60 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:34:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.266, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7JkV1EDeyzWl for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDB23A6A22 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n180Qwfx027565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n180QwRJ027563; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.175]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n180QkC8027548; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:26:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1454622wfg.28 for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:26:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TyekMQ3UFUezc85EZ086yI5PXcEs2riGVobX+SX2TCU=; b=KGBj1DmFO5cG5nccG4bIb2qOfAKEG+zbm2nN/p4dNanQ8KkFP8DNo2EiL6St11X0Mb NMCgGG7u2BxwYobDVQAGNxdR1jjEUfFE+DRmB41AGZK+noDNCM78ZgMmQdVkOVT5rWf1 jCE1Q+Nk3adrs+v5IerMP2Z1zTyR8tgT2MStI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YGYKfxh4wS1zpTcB2xd8lrAk7CqO8uPHZjGYktGOyF0a08VkvRFNFi5lSCopFW9LyY Vr8y1Ax0zOcCNx92IQJez5F/VdN2EST1L6FK/8Tce3fyOKruKEOPJnDLkzoUneMzGZPj QAmkmMfPSdRV8m3a7NmmrSDksAAdBIPa+nFXA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.254.6 with SMTP id b6mr1940443wfi.157.1234052805663; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:26:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:26:45 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 640cb88cc9016e89 Message-ID: <8158ad750902071626q13d87da5kd684a33a04ab34e5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Question about sorting in Atom From: Peter Keane To: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I have just finished building a small web application (for accepting grant proposals) on top of an Atom/AtomPub server (instead of an RDBMS). 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In that case the "view" at that URL isn't to be considered as the collection feed but as a public feed probably. - Sylvain -- Sylvain Hellegouarch http://www.defuze.org From mario.reis@ctr.pt Wed Feb 11 23:09:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0483A6A24; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:09:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_PRESTIGE=50, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, MANGLED_HERE=2.3, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX_NOV5A=1.062, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LzIOq2+cZHDY; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from CUSTOMER.VPLS.NET (unknown [122.160.43.166]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B193C3A6843; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:08:20 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 231.134.192.58 by 52.64.28.162; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:08:17 +0300 Message-ID: <732215270283.D30823968680atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org> From: "Marilyn Kay" To: "Burt Greenwood" Subject: Impress everyone with wealth and watches Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:08:17 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Money is tight, times are hard. 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Sincerely, Mr Espinosa From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 01:06:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF343A67C0 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:06:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0yslu1tkVCjB for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08683A680C for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1G8xFYr007284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:59:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1G8xFoO007282; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f205.google.com (mail-bw0-f205.google.com [209.85.218.205]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1G8x3F3007264; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:59:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so3066411bwz.10 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:59:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=bJSeg/ghmJyuPRYnLE4H0I/PV+vij7JLB86yCD1FRz8=; b=XZgg6PPSnIAS+CWQwzjzTtOlRREOTj2z8bv7ZiBuoeW2KAWTTiZrupqdA1dkIEXrYM VdLZ9hH9u8U+taFvBg1+1LgLu7mlNwAMm9isBguhaoW6kqCnxxYzrmQ6Sz8IimX8vUvT bzKUxOeiEbymlVSRqBLC8fpOJhw69Y90EuJGU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FbagJPlL6Z4NBrXizChn/yJbIrW9JaVPw22xpe5RFuaFTKthNPt2Tmyo/DZqvGWZC7 3fM9/Snl9uxC+Pn2hKKXsCTKzWuVOr+JTf9saKOawGH0/Z6UxHWlf3mYK2ya2s8K3qgX kS7EPcGxk6t+LVqXa/J9zYE2v9peOwaDzqAjE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.181.145.6 with SMTP id x6mr1427239bkn.94.1234774742503; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:59:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:59:02 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Thomas Broyer To: Atom-Protocol Cc: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: AFAICT, this has nothing to do with Atom-the-Protocol but only with Atom-the-Syntax, so CC'ing atom-syntax (and please follow-up there). On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: > > hello again. > > RTFM, i guess. atom:source is expected to contain the *feed*'s metadata, not > the *entry*'s metadata from the originating feed. this almost solves my > problem, the exception being the question of how to identify the feeds that > are aggregated in a feed, and how to relate the entries to these aggregated > feeds. the and scheme might > still be one solution for that, allowing consumers to learn more about *all* > aggregated feeds, while pure atom clients could use atom:source to at least > understand where each individual entry came from. according to the extension > rules, via:source would have to be an element rather than an attribute, but > then it would be ok, i guess. and maybe xml:id for the link/@id? but it > seems like atom does not allow link/@xml:id, but any local attribute (but > only if a future version of atom actually defined it). My reading is backwards: undefinedAttribute in the RNC explicitly prohibits local:* attributes while allowing xml:id (and any "foreign" attribute besides xml:base and xml:lang) > so if link/@id and > link/@xml:id both are not allowed by the current spec, what other method > would there be to make an association between entries and via-links? ... ... And relate entries to link[@rel='via'] using the @href value. -- Thomas Broyer From moser@alumni.virginia.edu Mon Feb 16 02:40:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C36128C0FF for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:40:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3rN2C9d0wH+C for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-180.net-89-2-190.rev.numericable.fr (ip-180.net-89-2-190.rev.numericable.fr [89.2.190.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D3AA3A69A3 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:40:07 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: answer 1 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090216104009.2D3AA3A69A3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:40:07 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 10:44:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0C33A6C00 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:44:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A2YDqbx3d11i for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944963A6B99 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1GIZpBi038999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:35:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1GIZp3H038998; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:35:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1GIZoeS038985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:35:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (75-101-1-224.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.1.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1GIZn97000639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:35:49 -0800 Message-ID: <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:35:51 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Atom-Protocol Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello thomas. Thomas Broyer wrote: > AFAICT, this has nothing to do with Atom-the-Protocol but only with > Atom-the-Syntax, so CC'ing atom-syntax (and please follow-up there). ok, follow-up to atom-syntax, cc'ed to atom-protocol and will remove that list from future posts. > My reading is backwards: undefinedAttribute in the RNC explicitly > prohibits local:* attributes while allowing xml:id (and any "foreign" > attribute besides xml:base and xml:lang) you're correct. which means xml:id would be allowed; that's nice. > > > ... > > > > ... > And relate entries to link[@rel='via'] using the @href value. that's almost what i want, but not quite, because this way, clients can only find out entries from which feeds did show up in the consumed feed, but not which feeds have been aggregated by the consumed feed. as a side-effect, i's also like the aggregated feed to be able to create and advertise IDs for the aggregated feeds, so that clients can query the aggregated feed by specifically asking only for certain entries from certain feeds. this is the bigger picture of the question i am asking here; how to create a query language for feeds. as one goal, we want it to be able to work across feeds, and a nice way to do this would be to specify it as working on an aggregated feed. ... that would be the idea, i guess. it does duplicate the feed URIs, but it is usable for pure atom clients, which is good. but even though entries from feed-B might not show up in the aggregated feed too often (because the aggregated feed is limited to some number on entries and feed-B is a low-volume feed, perhaps), it would still be visible that feed-B is contributing to the aggregated feed, and clients could specify filters and query the aggregated feed asking for entries only from feed-B (by using the "feed2" id in the query). cheers, dret. 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Sincerely, Mr Huber From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 13:05:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1243A69CA for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fyurhrTeOgMv for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7663A69C3 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1GKwZrH045039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:58:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1GKwZq8045038; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:58:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1GKwNV1045031 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:58:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asbjornu@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c10so229616nfd.24 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:58:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:date:to:subject:from :cc:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=ee654CBEYJBJIXOhf02q6wv6vsAUjf1CFR0ILKtVsL0=; b=L7ANZj/vA1q/DzmREQ34/CpwbSjwkdr5HFGlm3mRzFV3HKVWpQdqYrCRWMtkpVCMzW w2lgz1FVlVu0it1aO3QJW1nngbgXWk/S7WYRj9r6lEzMB/uiYRJC4gX8HnhaOxUfWJrO emMwXgh3R0jkD4khUB2D2VZMH8/7yZ/NssBF4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:to:subject:from:cc:content-type:mime-version:references :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=Thb4lwn3FDrpZc3gqb5WPbc4dAb69PqeOxEb1U7Y2eyBimIHfbn9+v14d+aS4R67qH NkRGNv6RNQKu5shfrh0+oKQcJxX3VfHRpUOtmRmmWGssFnTQuZbB6sI0ehv+GJarz7J9 S9Ffq0Qnc/2ayy6sf+DMU2ZOH1ndezuO38BwI= Received: by 10.210.57.12 with SMTP id f12mr848244eba.164.1234817903260; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from quark-mac-pro.local (191.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.191]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm14613792eya.46.2009.02.16.12.58.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:58:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:58:21 +0100 To: "Julian Reschke" , "Lisa Dusseault" Subject: Re: Link relation registry request for "describedby" From: =?iso-8859-15?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <498C93AD.6080801@gmx.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <498C93AD.6080801@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/10.00 (MacIntel) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:53 +0100, Julian Reschke wrote: > So if the URI for use as relation name in RDF is > "http://www.w3.org/2007/05/powder-s#describedby" why not use the same > URI in Atom? Excellent question; I thought of the exact same thing when reading the proposal. -- Asbjørn Ulsberg -=|=- asbjorn@ulsberg.no «He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away» From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 19:59:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DD23A6883 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fsm6-GHGFMdr for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97F93A677C for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1H3klYb059501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:46:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1H3klE7059499; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:46:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n1H3kY5j059476 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Feb 2009 03:46:33 -0000 Received: from static-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202] by mail.gmx.net (mp023) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2009 04:46:33 +0100 X-Authenticated: #163624 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/FqfoIjKTFYS2MqMdhPzSShIliWf5rbzj4HRsJ9V ICRrJYSpFNdWXC Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:46:07 +0100 From: Aristotle Pagaltzis To: Atom-Syntax , Atom-Protocol Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source Message-ID: <20090217034607.GA25301@klangraum.plasmasturm.org> Mail-Followup-To: Atom-Syntax , Atom-Protocol References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.66 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: * Erik Wilde [2009-02-16 19:45]: > > > > ... > > > Under what circumstances would the entry self link ever differ =66rom the feed via link? What=E2=80=99s the use of those IDs and via:via attributes? Regards, --=20 Aristotle Pagaltzis // From mpietrowicz@accura.co.uk Mon Feb 16 21:11:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF053A67EC for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:11:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.816 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.816 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hPIQOXTAwoDG for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 113.33.broadband11.iol.cz (113.33.broadband11.iol.cz [90.178.33.113]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B1583A6765 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:11:28 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Check out hot deals From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090217051130.6B1583A6765@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:11:28 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 21:21:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4103A69B3 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:21:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1p0S0cS+scbI for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAAB3A6914 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1H5Diaa062022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1H5DiU0062021; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1H5DXaV062010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:13:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (75-101-1-224.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.1.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1H5DWwi028555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:32 -0800 Message-ID: <499A477D.2020103@berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:33 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> <20090217034607.GA25301@klangraum.plasmasturm.org> In-Reply-To: <20090217034607.GA25301@klangraum.plasmasturm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: > * Erik Wilde [2009-02-16 19:45]: >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> > Under what circumstances would the entry self link ever differ > from the feed via link? What’s the use of those IDs and via:via > attributes? i don't think that these two URIs would ever differ. based on my scenario (providing aggregated feeds as a way to specify queries across a number of feeds), there are are reasons for the IDs: - even if the aggregated does not contain any entry of a feed it is aggregating, the still specifies that this feed is contributing to the entries available through the aggregated feed. - in the query on the aggregated link, the IDs are used in the query itself to specify the entries a client is requesting, such as "i am interested in all entries from 'feed1' where the title contains the string 'atom'." cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 16 22:42:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8FF3A69D5 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:42:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NosXW34Ko+kO for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC713A6861 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1H6ZY5V064747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:35:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1H6ZY1B064746; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:35:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from spaceymail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1H6ZOeO064731 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:35:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [192.168.100.117] (unknown [202.46.135.14]) by spaceymail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4DA87081 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:35:23 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:35:21 +1100 Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <499A477D.2020103@berkeley.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 17/2/09 4:13 PM, "Erik Wilde" wrote: > Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: >> * Erik Wilde [2009-02-16 19:45]: >>> >>> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> >> Under what circumstances would the entry self link ever differ >> from the feed via link? What=B9s the use of those IDs and via:via >> attributes? >=20 > i don't think that these two URIs would ever differ. based on my > scenario (providing aggregated feeds as a way to specify queries across > a number of feeds), there are are reasons for the IDs: >=20 > - even if the aggregated does not contain any entry of a feed it is > aggregating, the still specifies that this feed is contributing > to the entries available through the aggregated feed. this would be communicated via the @rel attribute, surely? > - in the query on the aggregated link, the IDs are used in the query > itself to specify the entries a client is requesting, such as "i am > interested in all entries from 'feed1' where the title contains the > string 'atom'." Hmm ... interesting. So you're not necessarily aggregating *all* entries from http://example.com/feed-A but instead possibly just a subset. So another aggregator who wants to carry this further shouldn't munge your id values? This raises a further wrinkle in that your ids, even in your own applicatio= n space, would need to be globally unique. Eg: if your application is providing a "top movie reviews" feed-set and also a "geeky web talk" feed-set, you generally wouldn't find the same id values used in both (unless it's a top movie review found in some geeky web talk forum). I would suggest something else to carry your feed-criteria data .. That way your criteria idents won't get stomped on by any further aggregation. e. 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Sincerely, Mr Goldberg From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 17 03:28:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A64E23A6A9B for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:28:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.415 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.415 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rm7vXNSbbvNq for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:28:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8210C3A68B0 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HBHGhu077717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1HBHG4P077716; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc1-s5.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s5.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.77]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HBH6ZB077704 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.16]) by bay0-omc1-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:17:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:17:05 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.5.237 by BAY141-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:17:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.5.237] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: "Atom-Syntax" References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:17:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2009 11:17:05.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[43EC5690:01C990F1] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Erik Wilde wrote: > good point. i have not hey thought about how aggregation of aggregated > feeds would work. i guess that for the second aggregator, the fact that it > is aggregating an agggregated feed should not matter. but then the > question is how to treat the and more specifically its > via:via="" attribute. so i guess aggregation of aggregated feeds does need > some special treatment. how about retaining all the > children, but replacing the via:via="" attribute's value with the ID of > the aggregated feed? There should be one and only one atom:source element per entry, reflecting the original source of the entry. If you're aggregating an entry that already has an atom:source, that atom:source element should be left unchanged. See section 4.1.2 of RFC4287: "atom:entry elements MUST NOT contain more than one atom:source element." And 4.2.11: "...by adding an atom:source child element, if it is not already present in the entry". Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 17 11:58:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C3728C129 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:58:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9+-YA5p-K-WK for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8993A6D25 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HJpDGN006305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1HJpDO6006304; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HJpCOa006298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.132] (o-csse1.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.132]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1HJpCH8021740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:51:12 -0800 Message-ID: <499B152C.6040404@berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:51:08 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: James Holderness wrote: > Erik Wilde wrote: >> good point. i have not hey thought about how aggregation of aggregated >> feeds would work. i guess that for the second aggregator, the fact >> that it is aggregating an aggregated feed should not matter. but then >> the question is how to treat the and more specifically >> its via:via="" attribute. so i guess aggregation of aggregated feeds >> does need some special treatment. how about retaining all the >> children, but replacing the via:via="" attribute's value >> with the ID of the aggregated feed? > There should be one and only one atom:source element per entry, > reflecting the original source of the entry. If you're aggregating an > entry that already has an atom:source, that atom:source element should > be left unchanged. > See section 4.1.2 of RFC4287: "atom:entry elements MUST NOT contain more > than one atom:source element." And 4.2.11: "...by adding an atom:source > child element, if it is not already present in the entry". thanks for pointing that out. i was (almost) proposing to leave atom:source unchanged, with the exception of the foreign markup of the via:via attribute. to not violate the rules you are citing, i could move this information to an extension element as a child of the entry, instead of an attribute of atom:source. so the revised version of the markup would look like this: ... in the first-level aggregation, and the second aggregator would create something like this: ... which would make clear that (a) the entry has been originally published in feed-A, but has been aggregated through feed-C ("id1"). this pattern could be repeated through any number of aggregators. or would the via:via element no simply be a repetition of and it should be like this: ... if i use this design, the only new markup i need is xml:id on the feed's link[@rel = 'via'] children, but in the end my application would have more strictly defined rules on how to handle when aggregating than what is defined by atom itself. the rules would be: 1. if you aggregate a feed, you must list that feed as a and you must add an @xml:id for it. this id must be stable over time. 2. for each aggregated entry, you must add the feed from which you aggregated it as a on the entry. these rules ensure that whenever i read an entry from an aggregated feed, there will be a feed/link[@rel = 'via'][exists(@xml:id)] for the entry/link[@rel = 'via']. cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 17 13:01:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB7B3A67D7 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:01:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.192 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.192 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.607, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aLaA9J1lvtUU for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB8B3A67A4 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HKr1IA010342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:53:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1HKr1qx010341; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:53:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.168]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HKqpBX010332 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:53:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.21]) by bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:52:50 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:52:50 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.31.71 by BAY141-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:52:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.31.71] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> <499B152C.6040404@berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:52:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2009 20:52:50.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[B24B7080:01C99141] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Erik Wilde wrote: > thanks for pointing that out. i was (almost) proposing to leave > atom:source unchanged, with the exception of the foreign markup of the > via:via attribute. Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you had intended to add multiple source elements to each entry. The foreign markup doesn't bother me that much. > or would the via:via element no simply be a repetition of and it > should be like this: > > > > > ... > > > > The spec is a bit vague in its description, but the intended purpose of the via link, as I understood it, was so that the entry author could credit the source of their "story". For example, if you read about a new iPhone release on Engadget and decided to blog about it, your blog entry could include a via link back to Engadget. Since you're not the author of these entries, you have no right to makes claims about the source of the story. In general you need to be very careful about making *any* changes to an entry when you're republishing someone else's content verbatim in an aggregated feed. As for the use of xml:id, I think that's unwise considering you can't guarantee uniqueness across the whole feed (which could make the document invalid). You have no way of knowing what other extensions might be using xml:id attributes which could conflict with yours (they would also be unwise to do so, but if you're considering it, you have to assume that someone else is too). It wouldn't be so bad if you were using something more universally unique in your ids, like a URI of some sort. But in that case, you might just as well reference the link href and avoid the xml:id altogether. Regards James From n.baskaran@altuwairqi.com Tue Feb 17 13:39:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD673A6849 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:39:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.069 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.069 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jVqVPPBdEN+m for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from elb227.internetdsl.tpnet.pl (elb227.internetdsl.tpnet.pl [83.15.135.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6A613A6964 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:39:46 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Invoice from itunes.com From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090217213947.E6A613A6964@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:39:46 -0800 (PST)
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Sincerely, Mr Guevara From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 17 15:58:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5EF28C131 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:58:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FU_ENDS_2_WRDS=0.255, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1EroNvmPzbcC for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:58:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6EC3A680E for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HNp6OD017676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:51:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1HNp6WY017675; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:51:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qy0-f20.google.com (mail-qy0-f20.google.com [209.85.221.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1HNotHL017658 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:51:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com) Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so5419994qyk.10 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:50:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=mpVRhCHfwh2dqZRxu2N7mcIya0/pYE/IZtordH4KorM=; b=aYFPPTom/e4EPXBoqj3QT3t/by88Z8MUPSU2eWns5hKFCGCZ1erN9s2IINuzaOPOt7 1umvgh4ZJBjqD37WOxeAdON9bcROts8jReeOwyA2DEX+CxnrmNMONOIjWd3Eug2BEq06 Nd1uJmUKwHBGMR0dKEEnKj2HkQME9JKSaTvE8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=N3F2oEquB8cxT/XwSGVAHfR+x1yGGlSXbuPGIZqyRkSp4TCHNtL8DE1xM7uyNX6soZ IWvoApjUa0glKh8x7XLokzgPsmrDrW77a+wGR5Yiy8icyRDwBYYF7pnwMavExN0yi4Pj dAvVNBaJlKWLFqHl5oe+/OtUwBonMyFRIcOWI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.45.204 with SMTP id g12mr6679683qaf.172.1234914654687; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:50:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:50:54 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f3051d0d0b9852eb Message-ID: <45be5cd40902171550n9eadbc7hc0319de7b230d60b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Bob Wyman To: Erik Wilde Cc: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d676e5211e5046325f9d1 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0015175d676e5211e5046325f9d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Erik Wilde wrote: > how to create a query language for feed At least three aspects of Atom serve to facilitate precisely this application (if I understand you correctly...). 1. Aggregate feeds are facilitated by having the atom.source element that allows feed metadata to be copied into the entry. If an entry contains an atom.source, then that entry, when read in an aggregated feed, can have the same semantics as if it had been read from its source feed. 2. Atom prohibits assigning any semantics to an entry's order within a feed. Thus, an atom.entry's semantics depend *only* on what is in the entry and the feed's metadata if the entry has no atom.source. 3. Atom entries are "top-level" objects (unlike RSS items) and thus can be read as self contained, complete documents within any feed or even outside a feed. Given these three aspects of Atom, it is quite possible to build a robust feed query language that allows statements like: "FROM feeda, feedb, feedn SELECT all entries that contain 'foobar'". It seems, however, that the thing that is hanging you up here is that you want to be able to encode a listing of the set of feeds which were scanned in the process of building the result feed for a query. I think this is what you're trying to accomplish with the link="via" stuff. The problem, of course, is that this business of listing source feeds doesn't scale -- thus, it isn't something that we should be trying to standardize. For queries that only span a small number of feeds, it might seem reasonable to explicitly list the source feeds, however, most "feed search" engines these days work with many millions of feeds. Thus, an aggregate result feed that contained only a handful of entries might need to have a listing of 10's of millions of feeds -- whether or not the result feed contained any of their entries. It has been pointed out by others that you are misreading the defintion of link="via". Hopefully, you won't try to overload it. However, you could define a custom relationship, perhaps link="http://example.com/queried_feed" for applications with small numbers of queried feeds. Alternatively, you might create some custom XML file that served as a "query specfication" and then link to that via some relationship... Of course, this relationship should be associated with the feed and not with any of the entries within the feed. Each entry in the feed would still state it's "origin" via the atom.source element. (Note: The list of queried feeds really is an attribute of the result feed, not the entries in it, thus, this shouldn't be a big problem.) Unfortunately, there is no way to encode an entry that shows both the entry's source as well as the reason why it has been included in an aggregate feed. Doing this would require an ability to "add data" to an entry after it is originally published. But, Atom provides no mechanisms for adding data to entries once they are published -- except for the business about inserting atom.source if not present. During the process of defining the atom format, we discussed at length a number of alternatives that would have permitted adding more "history" to entries but we couldn't get any agreement on what to do. The discussions typically included ideas for describing the "provenance" of an entry... Are you sure you *really* want to include a listing of the queried feeds? What would you do if you had millions of feeds to query? bob wyman --0015175d676e5211e5046325f9d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Erik Wilde <dret@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> how to create a query language for feed<= br>
At least three aspects of Atom serve to facilitate precisely this applicati= on (if I understand you correctly...).
1. Aggregate feeds are facilitate= d by having the atom.source element that allows feed metadata to be copied = into the entry. If an entry contains an atom.source, then that entry, when = read in an aggregated feed, can have the same semantics as if it had been r= ead from its source feed.
2. Atom prohibits assigning any semantics to an entry's order within a feed. Thus, an atom.entry's semantics depend *only* on what is in the e= ntry and the feed's metadata if the entry has no atom.source.
3. Atom entries are "top-level" objects (unlike RSS items) and th= us can be read as self contained, complete documents within any feed or eve= n outside a feed.

Given these three aspects of Atom, it is quite pos= sible to build a robust feed query language that allows statements like: &q= uot;FROM feeda, feedb, feedn SELECT all entries that contain 'foobar= 9;".

It seems, however, that the thing that is hanging you up here is that y= ou want to be able to encode a listing of the set of feeds which were scann= ed in the process of building the result feed for a query. I think this is = what you're trying to accomplish with the link=3D"via" stuff.=

The problem, of course, is that this business of listing source feeds d= oesn't scale -- thus, it isn't something that we should be trying t= o standardize. For queries that only span a small number of feeds, it might= seem reasonable to explicitly list the source feeds, however, most "f= eed search" engines these days work with many millions of feeds. Thus,= an aggregate result feed that contained only a handful of entries might ne= ed to have a listing of 10's of millions of feeds -- whether or not the= result feed contained any of their entries.

It has been pointed out by others that you are misreading the defintion= of link=3D"via". Hopefully, you won't try to overload it. Ho= wever, you could define a custom relationship, perhaps link=3D"http://example.com/queried_feed&qu= ot; for applications with small numbers of queried feeds. Alternatively, yo= u might create some custom XML file that served as a "query specficati= on" and then link to that via some relationship... Of course, this rel= ationship should be associated with the feed and not with any of the entrie= s within the feed. Each entry in the feed would still state it's "= origin" via the atom.source element. (Note: The list of queried feeds = really is an attribute of the result feed, not the entries in it, thus, thi= s shouldn't be a big problem.)

Unfortunately, there is no way to encode an entry that shows both the e= ntry's source as well as the reason why it has been included in an aggr= egate feed. Doing this would require an ability to "add data" to = an entry after it is originally published. But, Atom provides no mechanisms= for adding data to entries once they are published -- except for the busin= ess about inserting atom.source if not present. During the process of defin= ing the atom format, we discussed at length a number of alternatives that w= ould have permitted adding more "history" to entries but we could= n't get any agreement on what to do. The discussions typically included= ideas for describing the "provenance" of an entry...

Are you sure you *really* want to include a listing of the queried feed= s? What would you do if you had millions of feeds to query?

bob wyma= n


--0015175d676e5211e5046325f9d1-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 04:16:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9903A6805 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:16:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9fE+OMTwxcvf for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CE83A6922 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IC74fo045858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1IC74A0045857; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail55.messagelabs.com (mail55.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.163]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n1IC6r9A045846 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:07:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Brett.Lindsley@motorola.com) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: Brett.Lindsley@motorola.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-55.messagelabs.com!1234958811!95335045!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.0.0; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [129.188.136.8] Received: (qmail 13540 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2009 12:06:52 -0000 Received: from motgate8.mot.com (HELO motgate8.mot.com) (129.188.136.8) by server-8.tower-55.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2009 12:06:52 -0000 Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motorola) with ESMTP id n1IC6pPR002039 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from il06vts01.mot.com (il06vts01.mot.com [129.188.137.141]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/Vontu) with SMTP id n1IC6pQa019108 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:06:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from de01exm66.ds.mot.com ([10.176.8.17]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id n1IC6pps019105 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:06:51 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: feedsets and atom:source Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:05:43 -0500 Message-ID: <08AA4466F2952341B121759C24993B7C038EA94A@de01exm66.ds.mot.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: feedsets and atom:source Thread-Index: AcmRQx5eXxywK4GFQoCKoQvSuVYC3gAfLAYg References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> <499B152C.6040404@berkeley.edu> From: "Lindsley Brett-ABL001" To: "James Holderness" , X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Tracking the aggregation chain is an interesting problem that I played with in the past. One comment in this note grabbed my attention: "In general you need to be very careful about making *any* changes to an entry when you're republishing someone else's content verbatim in an aggregated feed." One issue in particular is handling *signed* entries. Any modification to the entry breaks the signature. One thought I had is to use foreign markup to indicate the aggregation chain, but to exclude the foreign markup in computing the signature. This way the original signature authenticates. Of course, this then begs the issue of authenticating the aggregation information... Brett Lindsley, Motorola Applied Research & Technology Center -----Original Message----- From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of James Holderness Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 2:53 PM To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source Erik Wilde wrote: > thanks for pointing that out. i was (almost) proposing to leave=20 > atom:source unchanged, with the exception of the foreign markup of the > via:via attribute. Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you had intended to add multiple=20 source elements to each entry. The foreign markup doesn't bother me that much. > or would the via:via element no simply be a repetition of and it=20 > should be like this: > > > > > ... > > > > The spec is a bit vague in its description, but the intended purpose of the=20 via link, as I understood it, was so that the entry author could credit the=20 source of their "story". For example, if you read about a new iPhone release=20 on Engadget and decided to blog about it, your blog entry could include a=20 via link back to Engadget. Since you're not the author of these entries, you have no right to makes claims about the source of the story. In general you need to be very careful=20 about making *any* changes to an entry when you're republishing someone=20 else's content verbatim in an aggregated feed. As for the use of xml:id, I think that's unwise considering you can't=20 guarantee uniqueness across the whole feed (which could make the document=20 invalid). You have no way of knowing what other extensions might be using=20 xml:id attributes which could conflict with yours (they would also be unwise=20 to do so, but if you're considering it, you have to assume that someone else=20 is too). It wouldn't be so bad if you were using something more universally unique in=20 your ids, like a URI of some sort. But in that case, you might just as well=20 reference the link href and avoid the xml:id altogether. Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 05:04:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847E83A6971 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:04:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ViHKzqV3Rcih for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC9E3A6843 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1ICvs4E048590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1ICvsdT048589; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f205.google.com (mail-bw0-f205.google.com [209.85.218.205]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1ICvg83048578 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so5510292bwz.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:57:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/BDTzSwdZrJH1yW4ceKDimWD5ueA4drfPN6uoc69gMc=; b=u351zdlXh8vume5avdEjDUu89iu86vjEjp0tzM7Q9UnuFdmUPeRhcr+xoGMWwyDa5w wW8U7eSArzzPCzblpfGddUYiYy4R9Etxk1BbRZtMCT7iOvk23FptRlixvYEwqCOhtdcy yQM7AXm427RChEXZD3Vl6pRB08MWp4+78BRCA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=jfLmkFkrIMerZ79pX7uNxY1jSM4WsFrUe8Rzsw5JZZKEGQJx1TzEoBinxGdtCS5b8P 26QuM0aLgYnFURqWV4xQxrODrIC+aly69RSwByr3uPso608T3QUp9eXjc9qRr7C6vmOl sYWyFQRC3yoPw8gkGfDd1OasZvTFQvBbNGhMg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.252.17 with SMTP id e17mr4528972mus.14.1234961861548; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:57:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40902171550n9eadbc7hc0319de7b230d60b@mail.gmail.com> References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> <45be5cd40902171550n9eadbc7hc0319de7b230d60b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:57:41 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8ef817b70930e457 Message-ID: <8158ad750902180457s667ad3ear4b159c6347b19f51@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Peter Keane To: Bob Wyman Cc: Erik Wilde , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Bob Wyman wrote: ... > Unfortunately, there is no way to encode an entry that shows both the > entry's source as well as the reason why it has been included in an > aggregate feed. Doing this would require an ability to "add data" to an > entry after it is originally published. But, Atom provides no mechanisms for > adding data to entries once they are published -- except for the business > about inserting atom.source if not present. There was recently some interesting discussion on just this issue on the activity streams mailng list. It came up in the context of "bookmarking" or "favorite-ing" or "rating" someone elses activity (activities are represented by atom entries). The idea being that you include that entry but, essentially, add some metadata saying why you are including it. And that act is itself and activity, also represented by an atom entry. It's actually an interesting issue that won't go away anytime soon. It'd be nice to have some best practices established ( a pattern language for Atom anyone?) . --peter keane During the process of defining > the atom format, we discussed at length a number of alternatives that would > have permitted adding more "history" to entries but we couldn't get any > agreement on what to do. The discussions typically included ideas for > describing the "provenance" of an entry... > > Are you sure you *really* want to include a listing of the queried feeds? > What would you do if you had millions of feeds to query? > > bob wyman > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 08:55:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9B53A68DD for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:55:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.791 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.585, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FAUz8tWXxG2m for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7053A6894 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:55:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IGixUp060130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:44:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1IGixpT060129; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:44:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qy0-f20.google.com (mail-qy0-f20.google.com [209.85.221.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IGiwep060122 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com) Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so6038622qyk.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:44:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=aFPPyP0CpsR5ssPICrYTh97eN6iEMoo608YXffdc1ws=; b=B2tyP/aA7NNE4j+HPX/WFwqQ6EKHhCtqzJzRgNrlMuTrXrGy4XQgycU3Obdmk6nOSO Rg65ugfUyfnvhJTembKTFe366AKbaRt6eoQjOAEPHWoKgyl35vdXWyG2LiqJPZLsF49c s+xrPYwzsmSZ6BJHm5hL78QeiEX8U/GlG4ovA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=m7if+w9C5H+MEyDj1nv36gjD6C5ykRDbT1REWbirjBHE4AoKZK/Mt5sO05AwPOOub4 qjVdxddUhyUmBfzbURfwO/n380C1xwKZiSXWhEGMrqTe/N1SpBuZDcqM1K/8L1eCU5MR u8gN9yJ5eROecc4MiLgAdwLz4CdOrqsOmRiFU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.2.74 with SMTP id 10mr12728050qai.257.1234975497603; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:44:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <08AA4466F2952341B121759C24993B7C038EA94A@de01exm66.ds.mot.com> References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> <499B152C.6040404@berkeley.edu> <08AA4466F2952341B121759C24993B7C038EA94A@de01exm66.ds.mot.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:44:57 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 29cd96ba7214cd22 Message-ID: <45be5cd40902180844m532287bdh226a4fe5480b8d48@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Bob Wyman To: Lindsley Brett-ABL001 Cc: James Holderness , atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cd614d74bde04633423f9 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0015175cd614d74bde04633423f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 < Brett.Lindsley@motorola.com> wrote: > One issue in particular is handling *signed* > entries. Any modification to the entry breaks > the signature. One thought I had is to use > foreign markup to indicate the aggregation chain, > but to exclude the foreign markup in computing > the signature. This is essentially the approach that I argued for when this was debated years ago on this list. The idea is to define some new element that is used to encapsulate annotations. Additionally, the entry canonicalization rules for Atom would be modified to require that the encapsulated data should be removed from the entry prior to signing or signature verification. Unfortunately, at the time this was discussed on the list, there was little understanding of why it was even useful or reasonable to sign Atom entries. Thus, proposals that made signature processing any more complex than it already was were not received well. Perhaps now that we've got more people using Atom and more folk understanding the utility of signatures, we can get such an extension accepted. > Of course, this then begs the issue of > authenticating the aggregation information... Clearly, if one goes to the trouble of defining a new element and extended canonicalization procedures, one should also ensure that: 1. There is a way to sign third-party annotations 2. The annotations can themselves be annotated and such annotations would be excluded via canonicalization from the signing of their parent. The remaining problem comes in defining a means to allow an annotation to be composed of several signed annotations which are themselves included in the signature of a parent... This gets complicated.... bob wyman --0015175cd614d74bde04633423f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 &l= t;Brett.Lindsley@motorola.co= m> wrote:
> One issue i= n particular is handling *signed*
> entries. Any modification to the entry breaks
> the signature. O= ne thought I had is to use
> foreign markup to indicate the aggregat= ion chain,
> but to exclude the foreign markup in computing
> t= he signature.
This is essentially the approach that I argued for when this was debated ye= ars ago on this list. The idea is to define some new element that is used t= o encapsulate annotations. Additionally, the entry canonicalization rules f= or Atom would be modified to require that the encapsulated data should be r= emoved from the entry prior to signing or signature verification. Unfortuna= tely, at the time this was discussed on the list, there was little understa= nding of why it was even useful or reasonable to sign Atom entries. Thus, p= roposals that made signature processing any more complex than it already wa= s were not received well. Perhaps now that we've got more people using = Atom and more folk understanding the utility of signatures, we can get such= an extension accepted.

> Of course, this then begs the issue of
> authenticating the aggregation information...
Clearly, if one goes = to the trouble of defining a new element and extended canonicalization proc= edures, one should also ensure that:
1. There is a way to sign third-par= ty annotations
2. The annotations can themselves be annotated and such annotations would b= e excluded via canonicalization from the signing of their parent.

Th= e remaining problem comes in defining a means to allow an annotation to be = composed of several signed annotations which are themselves included in the= signature of a parent... This gets complicated....

bob wyman

--0015175cd614d74bde04633423f9-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 09:14:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0443A68C5 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ZXaFPcvwpq0 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CC43A63D2 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IH5nrQ061107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1IH5n3J061106; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f205.google.com (mail-bw0-f205.google.com [209.85.218.205]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IH5bqB061095 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:05:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so5823122bwz.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:05:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/EptBUNnSqK2gVdZPoL+9CSik0v1/F5+90rkoUKBfJw=; b=gI/tkJjHOwX9FlCWXplxagEz1A5WlUtx9KOe0Hzf4oyHTTLcoN5iJERrSoeGCWI0mv Et3EA1ciJNNppwy48VBbNiGTQJKdSKWCRdfO2JZLlY6Pr2oNSCuuMbMzO7g+3liTkeo6 DcbjTzeaHGzJWQllkRbVDueuYFcnplwll1HSI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=K3cBV0ljK71Tue1lB9m3Ok6kZoogiSKsNHIDlGglQIlk6x9JvJsd/DYyv+UJGQNx6Q kY6KWy8yCQgtDfWDCDkVl95uM/qA1rxqve7spH5LCoALdoIH9qqpBswzl7YRSb0LN7xt fCXWrCQP0IlB/zo/obFoIjMbGwcj2J1xkUXpg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.131.18 with SMTP id i18mr110645mun.74.1234976736748; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:05:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40902180844m532287bdh226a4fe5480b8d48@mail.gmail.com> References: <499A6064.9050007@berkeley.edu> <499B152C.6040404@berkeley.edu> <08AA4466F2952341B121759C24993B7C038EA94A@de01exm66.ds.mot.com> <45be5cd40902180844m532287bdh226a4fe5480b8d48@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:05:36 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 73ac897a6ceee531 Message-ID: <8158ad750902180905n10a4740asb8c1262be09644e4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source From: Peter Keane To: Bob Wyman Cc: Lindsley Brett-ABL001 , James Holderness , atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Bob Wyman wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 > wrote: >> One issue in particular is handling *signed* >> entries. Any modification to the entry breaks >> the signature. One thought I had is to use >> foreign markup to indicate the aggregation chain, >> but to exclude the foreign markup in computing >> the signature. > This is essentially the approach that I argued for when this was debated > years ago on this list. The idea is to define some new element that is used > to encapsulate annotations. Additionally, the entry canonicalization rules > for Atom would be modified to require that the encapsulated data should be > removed from the entry prior to signing or signature verification. > Unfortunately, at the time this was discussed on the list, there was little > understanding of why it was even useful or reasonable to sign Atom entries. > Thus, proposals that made signature processing any more complex than it > already was were not received well. Perhaps now that we've got more people > using Atom and more folk understanding the utility of signatures, we can get > such an extension accepted. > >> Of course, this then begs the issue of >> authenticating the aggregation information... > Clearly, if one goes to the trouble of defining a new element and extended > canonicalization procedures, one should also ensure that: > 1. There is a way to sign third-party annotations > 2. The annotations can themselves be annotated and such annotations would be > excluded via canonicalization from the signing of their parent. > > The remaining problem comes in defining a means to allow an annotation to be > composed of several signed annotations which are themselves included in the > signature of a parent... This gets complicated.... Hmm. Makes me think that Git has in fact addresses many/all of the issues we'll be struggling with the next few years (i.e., identifying unique content w/ in other content). I wonder how that might apply ot the world of documents... --peter keane > > bob wyman > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 09:38:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EED3A6A79 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:38:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K5enKORD7pmo for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1403A6A15 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IHUkQh062421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:30:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1IHUkf1062420; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:30:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.142]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IHUYnt062412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:30:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1IHSPJa027658 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:28:25 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n1IHUXhl193044 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:30:33 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n1IHUXHK022274 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:30:33 -0500 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n1IHUXD9022263; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:30:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40902180844m532287bdh226a4fe5480b8d48@mail.gmail.com> To: Bob Wyman Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:30:31 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2FP1|January 12, 2009) at 02/18/2009 11:30:32 AM, Serialize complete at 02/18/2009 11:30:32 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: If you define an element to hold the annotation, then the XPath Filter 2.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmldsig-filter2/) transform, which is probably supported by almost every XML DSig implementation can do what you want. The drawback is that the entity signing the entry would have to generate the right signature (using the filter) ahead of time. Or a recipient, upon failing a verification, would have to go and remove the annotation elements -- and the "correct" whitespace around them. The alternative is to define a new canonicalization scheme. I doubt this would get much traction. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 13:28:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6708F28C21E for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSbCV1OVEvtu for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357F428C219 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1ILKV9n073482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1ILKVBY073481; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:20:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f157.google.com (mail-bw0-f157.google.com [209.85.218.157]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1ILKJeq073470 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:20:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lindstream@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so274924bwz.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:20:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nyaEpvbp+QfXprjGkCaPHcCM4X8i1zGC2unfRvMnKdI=; b=OhLE/D46aMHQ8YmArXKgcwWqTg5vcBKNgJz6cVapMv9Dr0Gkbjo9blVkXJAlDm2x3R Z4+zSB6TRzAt5hCvZcK1V5PXW+VDwp50nKLikmy/6xkyU0qxFabvVfsC9k9kCIJqLy3j HewR2V8iGKK3hBGUsgiyxuls62xf9PPs3DRdk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ZndBQlZ3cvrCjZ6T1pDFvZgZYCYAtzI9H5BZlskbzGju4h4bvfqzF4JqipoQDKFZ/1 XZW8weBeNXlJZ5iJzZZpPSUwxgfGMBUbAUekCLeOFyJXnAM/+YFXpBcO5pUUecC0jPiq R9Y7IvZkyXne+PBA3t9Z9KWN2ZfOUIJAp/KLo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.253.10 with SMTP id a10mr2191605bki.65.1234992018984; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:20:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:20:18 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Niklas_Lindstr=F6m?= To: atom-syntax@imc.org Cc: James M Snell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hello! A while ago there was discussion about two link extensions I-D:s by James S= nell: * Link Extensions , and * Tombstones = . I'm quite eager for these to become RFC:s. The project I'm working in is getting close to roll out a big data integration project between swedish government agencies. Currently I use extensions from these I-D:s to manage a flow of entry updates and deletions (both of whom will be rare but necessary). Primarily we need the tombstones. Additionally, we use the "md5" attribute (and possibly the "etag") as a compact way of providing an explicit means of checking the correctness of transported documents. We use this very instrumentally, and we could define our own extensions of course. There are also more or less usable alternatives in the wild, but (from what I've seen) those fit the bill much less precisely. * For Tombstones, just using GData:s marker in entries does do the job. So does the "deleted" attribute on the sync element defined in FeedSync (AFAIK). But these other specs incorporate *much* more than what we need, and I'd prefer not to overload the respective feed producers with the burden of filtering those specs just to get at this very specific need. (Our working implementation handles all three kinds; but I'd prefer to remove this choice.) * Regarding the Link Extensions, as mentioned we only use one (or two) of them. But I haven't found much of comparable simplicity and with the quality of specification I (IMHO) perceive this I-D has. (Though I'd perhaps prefer if it was possible to supply checksum and algorithm separately, as seen in some of the alternatives mentioned below). There's the Yahoo Media RSS extensions, or going all the way to embed XML-DSIG-chunks just to mark the links with checksums (I think, the semantics of DSIG:s seem very complex for this simple case). I also recall seeing some extensions for md5/checksum while "googling". Still, neither have seemed better to supply to the feed producers. (Admittedly, if GData had also defined a checksum extension (for both atom:content and atom:link) I'd probably just go with GData pieces for all of this, for better or worse.) One resort might be to keep on using the extensions of these I-D:s regardless of that such a practise is formally inappropriate. That or just remint namespaces for them and keep this usage "in-house" (as big as this "house" might be). However, this will divert what would otherwise be (what I hope to be) a concrete usage, which could promote wider adoption if these where already accepted RFC:s. (I also fear that an effort from us (we have limited resources) to specify equivalents of these ourselves and publish publicly is much less likely to be adopted than these already ongoing I-D:s.) Is there any way forward in this? I'd love to supply time to get these accepted as RFC:s, but I don't know (at all) what that would entail. Or is there simply not enough interest to push them forward? Best regards, Niklas Lindstr=F6m From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 14:46:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C313A6928 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:46:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7Mxmw5clCua for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2BF3A691E for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IMcTu2076993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:38:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1IMcTea076992; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.144]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1IMcIQg076959 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so63704qwk.28 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:38:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EaChRXoeaTLixBMvU4FbmLOOSyMb06Ol/jyqhdOKDh0=; b=Jpg2C1Vm5JPKUvR0llPBxTZ+aslxwN/LkmR+3BRpPKZzeaX3ALxAxopeIkFaZYGGic HXtOB82Ho6dIve7CrxjFYSfQO2qRwWAOaNge90pBeb5Caqne23VN668GYSySkXqCaCsL oz75CIEYDaZi5KKRUqPcbpQSZXLyLSaUN9nL8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JepeqyY/LJmuxIWARTTrQJ68D3gV8FaPZ3jGLixycDsEvONrX12AwJvYHlaSyOrAaC 6QrsuzCMlEQdu2WBDc33XX0RJgilNLUiMZdjqd2Zg+eiPYXB/gaeS44uSfLco6k84wCp HQRwxtlkM02jnefcn3jdru1V04qaVJhh+rB8E= Received: by 10.224.45.203 with SMTP id g11mr13402640qaf.171.1234996698480; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm277474qwe.55.2009.02.18.14.38.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:38:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <499C8DE5.5000207@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:38:29 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Niklas_Lindstr=F6m?= CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hello Niklas, As with several of the other drafts I put out a while back, I let these expire because at the time there was no solid consensus or significant demonstrated interest. Was hoping that someone other than myself would go out and get some implementation experience on these issues. I can certain help to move them forward if there's enough interest. - James Niklas Lindström wrote: > Hello! > > A while ago there was discussion about two link extensions I-D:s by James Snell: > > * Link Extensions > , > and > * Tombstones . > > I'm quite eager for these to become RFC:s. The project I'm working in > is getting close to roll out a big data integration project between > swedish government agencies. Currently I use extensions from these > I-D:s to manage a flow of entry updates and deletions (both of whom > will be rare but necessary). > > Primarily we need the tombstones. Additionally, we use the "md5" > attribute (and possibly the "etag") as a compact way of providing an > explicit means of checking the correctness of transported documents. > > We use this very instrumentally, and we could define our own > extensions of course. There are also more or less usable alternatives > in the wild, but (from what I've seen) those fit the bill much less > precisely. > > > * For Tombstones, just using GData:s marker in entries > does do the job. So does the "deleted" attribute on the sync element > defined in FeedSync (AFAIK). But these other specs incorporate *much* > more than what we need, and I'd prefer not to overload the respective > feed producers with the burden of filtering those specs just to get at > this very specific need. (Our working implementation handles all three > kinds; but I'd prefer to remove this choice.) > > > * Regarding the Link Extensions, as mentioned we only use one (or two) > of them. But I haven't found much of comparable simplicity and with > the quality of specification I (IMHO) perceive this I-D has. (Though > I'd perhaps prefer if it was possible to supply checksum and algorithm > separately, as seen in some of the alternatives mentioned below). > > There's the Yahoo Media RSS extensions, or going all the way to embed > XML-DSIG-chunks just to mark the links with checksums (I think, the > semantics of DSIG:s seem very complex for this simple case). I also > recall seeing some extensions for md5/checksum while "googling". > Still, neither have seemed better to supply to the feed producers. > > (Admittedly, if GData had also defined a checksum extension (for both > atom:content and atom:link) I'd probably just go with GData pieces for > all of this, for better or worse.) > > > One resort might be to keep on using the extensions of these I-D:s > regardless of that such a practise is formally inappropriate. That or > just remint namespaces for them and keep this usage "in-house" (as big > as this "house" might be). However, this will divert what would > otherwise be (what I hope to be) a concrete usage, which could promote > wider adoption if these where already accepted RFC:s. > > (I also fear that an effort from us (we have limited resources) to > specify equivalents of these ourselves and publish publicly is much > less likely to be adopted than these already ongoing I-D:s.) > > > Is there any way forward in this? I'd love to supply time to get these > accepted as RFC:s, but I don't know (at all) what that would entail. > Or is there simply not enough interest to push them forward? > > Best regards, > Niklas Lindström > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 16:43:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F94B3A693C for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:43:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.097, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wgosv3tH9ckJ for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:43:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BC628C1B0 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1J0bVCZ082092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1J0bVQN082091; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.176]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1J0bVJS082085 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.21]) by bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:37:31 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:37:30 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.25.15 by BAY141-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:37:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.25.15] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: References: <499C8DE5.5000207@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:37:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2009 00:37:30.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F7B0B80:01C9922A] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: James M Snell wrote: > As with several of the other drafts I put out a while back, I let these > expire because at the time there was no solid consensus or significant > demonstrated interest. Was hoping that someone other than myself would go > out and get some implementation experience on these issues. I can certain > help to move them forward if there's enough interest. FWIW, I've had a working implementation of the deleted-entry element in an internal build of Snarfer which I've been using for months now. It should be more-or-less compatible with drafts 1, 4 and 5. However I believe we decided against including the code in our public release because the future direction of the spec seemed very much up in the air at the time. If the spec ever did get finalised in a form resembling draft 5, it would be easy to ship it in our next release (although, to be honest, I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime soon). Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 18 17:26:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B143A6909 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:26:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x4bKdsIaGa+B for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1375D3A67CF for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1J1ILF1083866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1J1ILv2083865; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-qy0-f20.google.com (mail-qy0-f20.google.com [209.85.221.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1J1I9iT083842 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so393317qyk.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:18:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FZfb1dPrZJwJoznKITnlKiNubGOdJBFItk88jidnSGI=; b=SssgfpE2JbPP3ZljTNsOEMgNsIG1K9/CypeUc/cPoLw7uRFcUvTqwUqzao/pzP28iN CMemQf6UlaTpzQVjWvp7P6FOKV59oiJrpE42FGnBQFfNLc7C36hMQC7XZ1SKHYpr8BKe qsyZFmnkruPXHrqqdzQiTpg6NUrCT/G+7nVaE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=P2hGlNLAJEWB99v8XvvKAdagKyUcMCTn74uwbbeBYhcW79phiLUX6v4+bxazkH8hNp LADQ74zeEqEb7ieyE4w/nsLYzEUVVQfqqvnFDOF3/UFzXrNlkfWSeh5BsDFewnBTbnEo cpM4d9MoYRZ9nssr3yfbWY6KWk6QAscJq+IRw= Received: by 10.224.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr13612307qak.336.1235006289396; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.100? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm648465qwg.54.2009.02.18.17.18.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:18:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <499CB35B.60507@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:18:19 -0800 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Holderness CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums References: <499C8DE5.5000207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Good to know. I could push the draft forward with Informational status. That would allow us to finalize it and get it an RFC# but it wouldn't be standards track. Would that be sufficient? - James James Holderness wrote: > > James M Snell wrote: >> As with several of the other drafts I put out a while back, I let >> these expire because at the time there was no solid consensus or >> significant demonstrated interest. Was hoping that someone other than >> myself would go out and get some implementation experience on these >> issues. I can certain help to move them forward if there's enough >> interest. > > FWIW, I've had a working implementation of the deleted-entry element > in an internal build of Snarfer which I've been using for months now. > It should be more-or-less compatible with drafts 1, 4 and 5. > > However I believe we decided against including the code in our public > release because the future direction of the spec seemed very much up > in the air at the time. If the spec ever did get finalised in a form > resembling draft 5, it would be easy to ship it in our next release > (although, to be honest, I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime > soon). > > Regards > James > > From csteph@avehost.com Thu Feb 19 03:44:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EDD3A686D; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.381 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.381 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FRT_ROLEX=3.878, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JItP5UA4J-ml; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from CUSTOMER.VPLS.NET (86-41-36-174-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net [86.41.36.174]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9F73A67F6; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:44:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Nikki Haley" To: "Jennie Christian" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:44:30 -0500 Subject: Trim line or sport watch? 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Sincerely, Mr Christian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 19 05:51:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639673A6AD8 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:51:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_25=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5ZwgO7UdBBw for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE723A6836 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JDeVYN018485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1JDeVr4018484; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f157.google.com (mail-bw0-f157.google.com [209.85.218.157]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JDeJTF018462 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:40:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lindstream@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so1110747bwz.10 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:40:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hhTcrEiV+wC5OLqLnidZUcNqSndnnVWhny0hBfoDY6M=; b=DsAn1NicXyr5YWLPk9VnLNif8aA0+huTgjuEXEDv2JJLoHqGJPSssFuX18Pul10ibG CjSa1npXxRGxQLpBbgc6oDgb1gSMZ6A7xlspYGeTx03PwcSc69uE2jqm0Js4MMw2563h G5YpohEArrG3aUhCbftAaSZ9Mi6A4jGh83w5Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=s7u0HzFZlbsO2zedVjp4D6c0exvq0Nimj9sIU1MMkpcphbtU+WlSyzRe/Xzfgfsk8v BDStIASl0PPh92JNvqEG18tuVcQIsxEjY8fDcC/0tKnCywZ6SF8/2o5Fnm8g+psi43Ln BoJpHxK0JXM26x6mvHrF3Fl//xQs1ETYLP8qs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.181.198.10 with SMTP id a10mr415965bkq.120.1235050818379; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:40:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <499CB35B.60507@gmail.com> References: <499C8DE5.5000207@gmail.com> <499CB35B.60507@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:40:18 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Niklas_Lindstr=F6m?= To: James M Snell Cc: James Holderness , atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi James, and James! Great, that sounds sufficient for our needs. (As far as I understand Informational RFC:s, they have the potential of wide-spread adoption, right?. Or is e.g. RFC 1591 an exceptional case? (I'm just getting this from .)) It's good to hear that there's another implementation using "deleted-entry". While we intend to opensource our implementation, it's not going to happen yet for a while. (For the interested: our implementation is basically a feed-archive (RFC 5005) collector; sort of a one-way sync to a central registry/repository. The tombstones work perfectly for signalling removal of mispublished resources. I've also come across other scenarios (some regular "unpublish" needs) where I would have recommended "deleted-entry" had it been stable. So I definitely think it is good as it stands.) .. One additional thing that *may* be useful though, is if it was allowed to include the actual deleted entry *within* the deleted-entry element (kind of like GData:s entryLink () does it). Perhaps in an at:copy or at:trash element.. This would be for scenarios where the consumers have "failed" to remember e.g. which linked representations the entry entailed. I haven't seen this need myself though, and in regular scenarios I assume this information is at best irrelevant, at worst exposing unwanted, false or even malicious information (as per the prior discussions of whether markers within plain entries are good enough for deletions). But I'm satisfied either way. Just wanted to mention this for consideration. Best regards, Niklas (And thanks by the way, for all your work on these things.) On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 2:18 AM, James M Snell wrote: > > Good to know. I could push the draft forward with Informational status. That > would allow us to finalize it and get it an RFC# but it wouldn't be > standards track. Would that be sufficient? > > - James > > James Holderness wrote: >> >> James M Snell wrote: >>> >>> As with several of the other drafts I put out a while back, I let these >>> expire because at the time there was no solid consensus or significant >>> demonstrated interest. Was hoping that someone other than myself would go >>> out and get some implementation experience on these issues. I can certain >>> help to move them forward if there's enough interest. >> >> FWIW, I've had a working implementation of the deleted-entry element in an >> internal build of Snarfer which I've been using for months now. It should be >> more-or-less compatible with drafts 1, 4 and 5. >> >> However I believe we decided against including the code in our public >> release because the future direction of the spec seemed very much up in the >> air at the time. If the spec ever did get finalised in a form resembling >> draft 5, it would be easy to ship it in our next release (although, to be >> honest, I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime soon). >> >> Regards >> James >> >> > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 19 06:00:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A055828C1DE for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:00:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.900, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FXX6pQJdXqvr for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C5E28C1CC for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JDroGr019179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:53:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1JDroNd019178; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:53:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-bw0-f157.google.com (mail-bw0-f157.google.com [209.85.218.157]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JDrmUn019168 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lindstream@gmail.com) Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so1129478bwz.10 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:53:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oATlLLgxRUL/KZCMkWcVUKmzpfiyQ3Udy2zBbMPiH+Q=; b=JnNeBmyNUUI5/3huMW77jTTXu2QG52hneVPoPMv/Ob82/z7rmC3pjz7hoS2JjL5wah siGwT4Bz0e8Vavzh53axlxslb1HLRjO1S8dRR5L51fA4f6RBslutuGwtd3zb9VkbZSB2 QRrWiqWwIhlqFPE5MSlD0TFSUZRw/B0R7w1bI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=hEGWHfekQARSC2pWrUgcJwm3HOVvF4rTNo46IwV3W2yKrb8AtRFAA5tUT7qqJxQQFV wWj6Qa2PwqYsNNH8Iv0+1WYkSAVdCgYZSFaVTInhaKcSyviCBSQFlxwXsOyMI1xHeZEW ZVGJmdP9UH6H64p+Qk/07WlrvssEW3uRAyooo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.181.156.12 with SMTP id i12mr1920545bko.45.1235051627926; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:53:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:53:47 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Link Extensions I-D (was Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Niklas_Lindstr=F6m?= To: James M Snell Cc: James Holderness , atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hello again! Regarding the Link Extensions (). Is there a chance of that becoming an (Informational) RFC as well? I just saw that GData has added a gd:etag attribute to their spec suite, but that's only used on feed and entry elements. In my scenarios, the (embedded or linked) representations are the "real" data. The entry is more of a "resource manifest". Sort of a "serialized HTTP exposure" if you will (capturing conneg variants and headers). I find that the Link Extensions I-D does a lot to complete the Atom syntax in regard to this manifest view. (I'm sure this is a common view of atom entries, although it's not always touted as such.) Best regards, Niklas On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 2:18 AM, James M Snell wrote: > > Good to know. I could push the draft forward with Informational status. That > would allow us to finalize it and get it an RFC# but it wouldn't be > standards track. Would that be sufficient? > > - James From loxacin@ab1cs.com Thu Feb 19 07:03:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F7A3A6B70 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:03:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -52.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-52.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id adLC2dQ4Q40w for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 128.231.broadband9.iol.cz (128.231.broadband9.iol.cz [90.176.231.128]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AC2D3A6B54 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:03:45 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: answer 9 From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090219150346.0AC2D3A6B54@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:03:45 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 19 10:19:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF973A68E5 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:19:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.306, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e+0ZtXDxWzHn for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706C93A6801 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JI7Bno033225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1JI7B73033224; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.239]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JI709i033183 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.23]) by bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:07:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:07:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 87.82.20.64 by BAY141-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:06:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [87.82.20.64] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: References: <499C8DE5.5000207@gmail.com> <499CB35B.60507@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Using I-D:s for tombstones and checksums Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:06:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2009 18:07:00.0248 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC311180:01C992BC] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: James M Snell wrote: > Good to know. I could push the draft forward with Informational status. > That would allow us to finalize it and get it an RFC# but it wouldn't be > standards track. Would that be sufficient? It doesn't matter to me whether it's informational or standards track - just that it's finalized. I was concerned that you might, at some point, revert back to the format you were using in drafts 2 and 3, which is not compatible with my implementation. Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 19 10:39:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110F53A68AA for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:39:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_46=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R4UMz9dacRA3 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799713A6944 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:39:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JIWsfC035248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1JIWsmX035247; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1JIWhHs035212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.239] (dhcp239.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1JIWhgJ025340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:32:43 -0800 Message-ID: <499DA5C5.7030607@berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:32:37 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Peter Keane Subject: Re: feedsets and atom:source References: <499922DE.5030306@berkeley.edu> <4999B207.4080400@berkeley.edu> <45be5cd40902171550n9eadbc7hc0319de7b230d60b@mail.gmail.com> <8158ad750902180457s667ad3ear4b159c6347b19f51@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8158ad750902180457s667ad3ear4b159c6347b19f51@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Peter Keane wrote: > There was recently some interesting discussion on just this issue on > the activity streams mailng list. It came up in the context of > "bookmarking" or "favorite-ing" or "rating" someone elses activity > (activities are represented by atom entries). The idea being that you > include that entry but, essentially, add some metadata saying why you > are including it. And that act is itself and activity, also > represented by an atom entry. that sounds a lot like RDF. making assertions about atom entries by creating atom entries about atom entries. you quickly run into the problem of "how do i create rules for how this is done in a given scenario", and in the end maybe you come up with the idea of "metafeeds" which are carrying metadata about a feed. creating standards around this pattern is a pretty challenging topic, i guess, but it is true that in a way, it is simply a generalization of the aggregation pattern i am trying to deal with. it also has the same issues of recursion: it should be possible to "favorite-ing" someone's "favorites", right? cheers, dret. 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Sincerely, Mr Doty From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Feb 22 21:33:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650B43A6820 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.378, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kv54LRJeTfkz for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8DB3A67F3 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1N5Hbxf059231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:17:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1N5Hbl0059230; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:17:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-fx0-f161.google.com (mail-fx0-f161.google.com [209.85.220.161]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1N5HP7j059215 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so1372447fxm.10 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:17:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=WSXlaF4xxtMmxKBsbzYPjP8bXOMb/Fg2boUpXSRs6R8=; b=cvqWvm9NJtPpu7t0F7M0lVNpOpcOLIdhfDtVDOPiyEVzIrJfpXM85Qifa1zcHO8dMq 6UoqGVxOaNUlSN0kjVaLYlXHJbKtyCjDsUuY8U3e3r+krgXnyMnAXhHSDhcXha8djQ+Y Mfd/8f7t+gVm6LToa6xe8UQTcjpBRjuhIKcBg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=brNLepn3yzlyBO73gh5FD+mVbmI0KhUaOfhcpYJc4jr45dqHiRRaL0YUZYraseLTBB eWQSYO32evPH+9u2+Zc4rWJV02gAPRPOv0aamw4J/+JnVKOJ4XfOFxI5z8by1NmfwtO6 vufyeeWvmqUfMfEQ0Nmh0SojlDx4G1mM1JOH4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.244.4 with SMTP id w4mr3079350mur.11.1235366245100; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:17:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:17:25 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 19c6846759621041 Message-ID: <8158ad750902222117t3e6dcb1ct937a1abc8a6f6f53@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Resources for Atom beginners From: Peter Keane To: Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502dc8d34ed9804638f1e2a Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --00504502dc8d34ed9804638f1e2a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many folks have noted that the stimulus package passed by Congress has some reporting stipulations that specifically require that agencies provide "feeds" of information preferably in Atom 1.0 (although RSS -- no version mentioned -- is acceptable). See appendix one in http://www.recovery.gov/files/Initial%20Recovery%20Act%20Implementing%20Guidance.pdf . So perhaps we'll have lots of folks wanting to know a bit more about Atom in the near future. I am wondering what the state of documentation is for someone wanting to learn more. A google search turns up AtomEnabled.org, but it still looks to be somewhat out of date. Is that site being maintained? It would certainly be nice also to outline the prefered libraries for creating Atom in Java, Perl, Python, PHP, C#, etc. Anyone have any thoughts on this? While it's nice to see that someone was saavy enough about Atom to include it, in the spirit of "being the change..." and all that, it might be a good opportunity for the Atom community to be proactive in getting help to folks who might need it (and perhaps making a pitch for AtomPub if/when some of these agencies want to establish an API). --peter keane --00504502dc8d34ed9804638f1e2a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many folks have noted that the stimulus package passed by Congress has some= reporting stipulations that specifically require that agencies provide &qu= ot;feeds" of information preferably in Atom 1.0 (although RSS -- no ve= rsion mentioned -- is acceptable).  See appendix one in http://www.recovery.gov/files/Initial%20Recovery%20Act%20Implementi= ng%20Guidance.pdf.

So perhaps we'll have lots of folks wanting to know a bit more abou= t Atom in the near future.  I am wondering what the state of documenta= tion is for someone wanting to learn more.  A google search turns up A= tomEnabled.org, but it still looks to be somewhat out of date.  Is tha= t site being maintained? 

It would certainly be nice also to outline the prefered libraries for c= reating Atom in Java, Perl, Python, PHP, C#, etc.

Anyone have any t= houghts on this?  While it's nice to see that someone was saavy en= ough about Atom to include it, in the spirit of "being the change...&q= uot; and all that, it might be a good opportunity for the Atom community to= be proactive in getting help to folks who might need it (and perhaps makin= g a pitch for AtomPub if/when some of these agencies want to establish an A= PI).

--peter keane
--00504502dc8d34ed9804638f1e2a-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Feb 22 23:02:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655393A677C for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:02:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.900, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rx0AiM6lWzTF for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C00428C0EB for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1N6lhN5062910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1N6lhCk062909; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1N6lWus062896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (75-101-1-224.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.1.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1N6lVdK009577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:47:31 -0800 Message-ID: <49A24684.8070601@berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:47:32 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Peter Keane Subject: Re: Resources for Atom beginners References: <8158ad750902222117t3e6dcb1ct937a1abc8a6f6f53@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8158ad750902222117t3e6dcb1ct937a1abc8a6f6f53@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello peter. > Anyone have any thoughts on this? While it's nice to see that someone > was savvy enough about Atom to include it, in the spirit of "being the > change..." and all that, it might be a good opportunity for the Atom > community to be proactive in getting help to folks who might need it > (and perhaps making a pitch for AtomPub if/when some of these agencies > want to establish an API). i think this is an excellent idea. it will not be easy, though, and it might benefit from some coordination for those interested in helping (i would be interested to help, maybe in coordination, and in doing some writing). http://dret.typepad.com/dretblog/atom-landscape.html is my modest attempt to keep track of what's happening in the atom landscape, but there is almost no explanation of what the standards do or propose to do. but it seems to me that certain patterns (such as the recently discussed "tombstone pattern") of using atom will probably be encountered by more and more people, and if there were some good resource that explained what atom did, what atom extensions are available or under discussion, and how to best map collections to atom, that would probably help to increase the quality of the atom feeds being made available. maybe there is something out there that does exactly that, if that's the case, i would be interested to be pointed to it. cheers, dret. 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KEYWORD Ltd.
Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 9, B512. 254 Clements Road. London. SE94 7DG

© 2006-2008 KEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved

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KEYWORD Ltd.
Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 8, B170. 110 Clements Road. London. SE38 5DG

© 2006-2008 KEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved

From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 25 18:14:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790733A6BC3 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:14:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nkh1HVgMtnGN for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:14:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7DA3A6BC2 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1Q25WsD012196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1Q25WUX012195; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1Q25L2p012188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.230] (dhcp230.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.230]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1Q25KKf016832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:05:21 -0800 Message-ID: <49A5F8DF.3030709@berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:05:19 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: feed autodiscovery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html (and more recently http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-snell-atompub-autodiscovery-00.txt) is something that was done a while ago, and there still is not really a standard for that, right? is there a reason why this was never completed, is it considered unnecessary, or is there a standard? and are people currently just pointing to informal documents and waiting for HTML5? thanks and cheers, dret. 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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 26 11:39:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8510A3A680E for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:39:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKKD0Yiyztcc for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA873A6784 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1QJX7aw091397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:33:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1QJX7NM091396; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:33:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1QJWusK091370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:33:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joe.Cheng@microsoft.com) Received: from tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.88.97) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:32:56 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C109.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.155]) by tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.88.97]) with mapi; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:32:54 -0800 From: Joe Cheng To: Erik Wilde , Atom-Syntax Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:32:52 -0800 Subject: RE: feed autodiscovery Thread-Topic: feed autodiscovery Thread-Index: AcmXuHvoTNsgIo9qRqeCXai1QzdNOwAkDt5g Message-ID: References: <49A5F8DF.3030709@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <49A5F8DF.3030709@berkeley.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I wrote a blog post that provides some background and what we decided to do for Windows Live Writer, but I don't have definitive answers to=20 your questions. http://tinyurl.com/bzme4n I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing. -----Original Message----- From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Erik Wilde Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:05 PM To: Atom-Syntax Subject: feed autodiscovery hello. http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html=20 (and more recently=20 http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-snell-atompub-autodiscovery-00.txt) is=20 something that was done a while ago, and there still is not really a=20 standard for that, right? is there a reason why this was never=20 completed, is it considered unnecessary, or is there a standard? and are=20 people currently just pointing to informal documents and waiting for HTML5? thanks and cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 26 11:45:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103F128C22A for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:45:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fcrYDX62s2Re for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225F228C293 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1QJdYkb091684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n1QJdY6x091683; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n1QJdNcl091668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.230] (dhcp230.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.230]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n1QJdNgr029255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:39:23 -0800 Message-ID: <49A6EFE9.1090601@berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:39:21 -0800 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax CC: Joe Cheng Subject: Re: feed autodiscovery References: <49A5F8DF.3030709@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Joe Cheng wrote: > I wrote a blog post that provides some background and what we decided > to do for Windows Live Writer, but I don't have definitive answers to > your questions. > http://tinyurl.com/bzme4n thanks, i added that link to my blog post about the subject: http://dret.typepad.com/dretblog/2009/02/atom-feed-autodiscovery.html > I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing. i was hoping to get guidance from this list, and my main interest right now is to learn why those drafts were abandoned. to me it seems like a pretty important feature to be able to link web pages and web feeds, and i am still wondering why this is not something that so far has been standardized. thanks and cheers, dret. From majordomo@ammazen.com Thu Feb 26 20:29:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9D83A6C00 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:29:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -40.869 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.869 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4A4ONaFJuszs for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from airpacific.co.jp (unknown [189.73.24.168]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 153E13A6936 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:29:42 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Hi From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090227042944.153E13A6936@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:29:42 -0800 (PST)
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KEYWORD Ltd.
Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 2, B479. 474 Clements Road. London. SE11 6DG

© 2006-2008 KEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved

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